The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


The lessons of this free agent market

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 11, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Beyond re-signing two of their own, the Yankees have yet to make a significant move this offseason. But the market might have taught them what to expect as they fill some holes.

Starting pitcher
The Yankees need at least one, maybe two starters, and that’s the one market that hasn’t really been set this offseason. In so many ways, the Yankees are trying to set the market with a deal for Cliff Lee. The signings of Carl Crawford and Jayson Werth set the market for premier free agents, and Lee is expected to get somewhere in the neighborhood of seven years and $24 million per season. A second starter might depend on Andy Pettitte. The Yankees have already seen the starting pitcher trade marker, where Shaun Marcum cost the Brewers a premium prospect.

Left-handed reliever
The lefty specialist market has been fairly active, ranging from a one-year, $750,000 deal for Brian Tallet to a one-year, $1.2-million-plus-incentives deal for George Sherrill. Dennys Reyes cost the Phillies just over $1 million on a one-year deal. The Scott Downs deal doesn’t really apply here because the Yankees don’t need more than a left-on-left specialist, and  a guy like that — maybe Randy  Choate — wouldn’t require a huge commitment.

Eighth-inning setup reliever
Brian Cashman has expressed confidence in Dave Robertson and Joba Chamberlain, and those two entered 2010 as the Yankees top late-inning relievers ahead of Mariano Rivera. But the Yankees also saw the impact Kerry Wood made late last season.  Proven relievers like that are no cheap. Joaquin Benoit was one of the first free agents to sign this winter, and he went to Detroit on a three-year, $16.5 million deal. JJ Putz signed with Arizona for two years, $10 million and will get a chance to close. Bringing back Wood or signing Grant Balfour might solidify the eighth inning, but it won’t happen cheap. And getting Rafael Soriano to take a setup job — as several people have emailed me about — will cost a boatload. D.J. Carrasco at two years, $2.5 million is a bargain in comparison.

Fourth outfielder
Still kind of a wide open market, with not a lot of options off the table. Matt Diaz took two years, $4.25 million and a chance to start. The Royals gave Melky Cabrera one year, $1.25 million and gave Jeff Franceour one year, $2.5 million. That deal came with incentives and a mutual option. Depending on the player, I would guess the market for a fourth outfielder ranges from $1 million to $3 million for one year. Last year, Cashman took his time and settled on Randy Winn and Marcus Thames, both on pretty cheap deals.

Utility infielder
Jhonny Peralta got a starting job with the Tigers at two years, $11.25 million. That’s an extreme example, but it gives an idea of the ceiling for a guy who has proven himself and can play multiple positions. That’s why it’s difficult to find a sure-thing backup to occasionally fill in for Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter. Guys like that are utility players for the Yankees, but they’re getting everyday money elsewhere. Ty Wigginton got two years, $8 million to be a regular utility man with the Rockies. On a lower end, Geoff Blum got two years, $2.7 million to play a utility role in Arizona, and Cesar Izturis got one year, $1.5 million from the Orioles.

Catcher
The Yankees are in a weird spot behind the plate. They’re ready to make the transition from Jorge Posada to Jesus Montero, but it involves considerable risk, and there’s great comfort in adding a proven catcher. That’s why Russell Martin’s name is mentioned so often. Ramon Hernandez got one year, $3 million from the Reds. The Mariners gave Miguel Olivo two years, $7 million. A.J. Pierzynski got two years, $8 million to return to Chicago. Martin is something of a unique case, with tremendous talent and significant health concerns. He made more than $5 million last year, and seems to have generated considerable interest.

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287 Responses to “The lessons of this free agent market”

  1. Angelo Silecchio December 11th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    I can’t see why Russell Martin would choose the Yanks over the Sox or Jays were he has a better chance of winning the starting job. I hope I’m wrong, but I just don’t see it.

    http://sportsthunderdome.blogspot.com/

  2. Bronx Jeers December 11th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Carl Crawford: “My heart was in Boston”

    :lol:

  3. Yogi Mantle December 11th, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Bronx, that quote from Crawford could be translated, my Big Bank Account was in Boston. Amazing how much lovin’ a few million buys. lol.

  4. Ruby Tuesday December 11th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Well done , Brian Cashman .

    Well done .

  5. Nick in SF December 11th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Oops, re-post:

    Cliff Lee likes to pump his own gas.

    But you can’t pump your own gas in New Jersey!

    So Cliff Lee will not sign with the Yankees, the Newark Bears, or the Portland Trailblazers.

  6. Ruby Tuesday December 11th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    ” Amazing how much lovin’ a few million buys. ”

    Except in the case of Cliffie Lee .

  7. clownthrowindown December 11th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Carlo,

    I didn’t realize…players in Dallas have to pay tax on their games played there. So the 2m/year spread I figured is too high. I didn’t search the article you mentioned but this article has it at around only $1M year. And that can be a bit higher or lower depending on some other factors.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/40005344

  8. Chase December 11th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Hilarious that Crawford would say that when Boston was his 4th choice according to everyone in the Rays org.

    Angels just do what they do greatest, offer good FA’s the second best contract.

  9. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Superb post Chad. Looks like the recession for the owners is over; not that it ever started. Can’t see Martin taking a one-year deal here. If Montero tears it up; he’s not going to play, no matter what they say now.

  10. Stoneburner December 11th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    There is a quiet growing panic in Red Sox country – if Lee signs with Yanks – Yankees will have dramatically altered the landscape of their team. COMPARE:

    Red Sox trade V-Mart and Beltre for Crawford and Gonzales – an upgrade – BUT CONSIDER

    Yankees trade Javier Vazquez for Cliff Lee

    Yankees have significantly altered their team and upgraded it

    Bad job Theo – you lock down a division and create a dynastic run with pitching – Theo should have spent the Lackey money, the Beckett money, the Crawford money on Cliff Lee OR on C.C. Sabathia. Bad job Theo – you lock down a pitching staff w/ Lee, Lester, Clay, and/or Sabathia. BUT – you were unable to b/c your brain trust and your brain children goofed on Lars Anderson, on Ryan Kalish.

    Also – growing concern Red Sox prospect might be Rey Ordonez 2.0

    Plus – growing questions whether Anthony Renaudo will prove his prospect status NOT until he dominates AAA – his arm needs to hold up – he is in the same boat as Brackman – though Brackman has a jump on in him in terms of years and coming through his injuries.

  11. Rob_NY December 11th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    “So Cliff Lee will not sign with the Yankees, the Newark Bears, or the Portland Trailblazers.”

    However, the Portland Sea Dogs may have offered that crucial 8th year to lee to lure him in.

  12. Stoneburner December 11th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    meant Iglesias might be Rey Ordonez 2.0

  13. Stoneburner December 11th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    So much riding on this Lee decision

    The Yankees could be set up for a dynastic run w/ Lee and lock and loaded farm system – if no Lee – major set back and if there is no competent fall back or plan B – little chance of winning a championship until the young arms mature OR Phil Hughes takes a huge step forward in the 2 spot

    The Red Sox would face a major embarrassment if Lee signs with the Yankees b/c they would have just signed or traded for players for positions WE THOUGHT they had locked down in their vaunted over-hyped farm system

    The Rangers if they lose Lee – their fan base will be absolutely devastated – he is bigger than Hamilton down there – bigger than any ball player – he is country – they like that – he is this Paul Bunyan character – all the good will from the WS run will be out the window

  14. upstate kate December 11th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    wow, did Crawford really say that? I thought his heart was w/ the Rays, his brain was w/ the highest bidder! I guess he had to top A-gon’s statement. Sorta like Johnny Damon always wanting to be a Tiger.

  15. Stoneburner December 11th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Question surfacing from my end – why did Greenberg not disclose offer – is he embarrassed with the offer they made – plus that whole press conference – now looking at almost two days later – was just – well – in the scope of baseball – odd. Greenberg acting more like a businessman dealer than a baseball operations point man – like a Cashman, like a Daniels, like a Theo – let your baseball people do their jobs – they come to the owner for financial decisions after an assessment on talent is made – the Boss once acted like Greenberg this past week (we know that all to well), the Wilpons acted like Greenberg this week (we all know this one as well), Jerry Jones has acted like Greenberg this past week (see everything since Jimmy Johnson left), Mark Cuban has acted like Greenberg this past week (see Steve Nash)

  16. Yogi Mantle December 11th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Wouldn’t it be funny to hear a player say “Once they ponied up 40 million more, I really fell in love with this team.”

    But wait, 40 Million means you will pay almost all of it in taxes according to clownthrowingdown, so I guess Crawford really did love Boston. :roll:

  17. OCYankeesFan December 11th, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    We’ll truly know what kind of GM Cashman is if Lee doesn’t sign and Pettitte retires.

    “Plan B” will be the real test.

    Does Cashman beef up the pen and go for a Soriano and/or Fuentes? Does he move Joba back to the rotation or trade him? Move prospects for a starter? He’s got to do one of all of these things.

    I can’t see Montero going anywhere. If you lose out on Lee and Pettitte, do you really want to lose Montero as well? Unless it is for king Felix, not gonna happen.

    Maybe it won’t come to that. Who knows . . .

  18. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Lee: Uh, well, my father when I was a kid, he took me to the bank and he lifted me up and he pointed to the banker and he said: ‘Sonny boy, take a good look at him, that’s gonna be you some day.’

  19. Bronx Jeers December 11th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Nothing wrong with Northern New Jersey.

    In fact I hear it’s an ideal place to start a family.

    http://image.guardian.co.uk/sy.....nos460.jpg

  20. Nick in SF December 11th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    And then Crawford went on to explain how he’s always wanted to play in a city that’s evolved past racial tensions and disharmony — like Boston.

  21. Yogi Mantle December 11th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    I understand that some jocks aren’t sharpest knife in the draw, but I’m thinking Crawford is less than a butter knife.

  22. Tom in N.J. December 11th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Crawford took less money to play in Taxachusetts.

  23. start_wearing_pink December 11th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Taxachusetts is still as racist as it’s ever been. Nothing has changed. Every time I walk down the streets there and see an African American, I worry that he may strung up by his neck.

  24. 4time December 11th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    WEEI.com’s Rob Bradford tweets that the Angels made Crawford a comparable offer and set a 11pm deadline on Wednesday, but the Red Sox got the deal done at 10:50.

  25. upstate kate December 11th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    well I am guessing nothing happens w/ Lee until after the weekend. He wouldn’t want to share the limelight w/ the Heissman Trophy, or NFL Sunday.

  26. comet December 11th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    US Kate: How is your weather? It’s melting here before the Colorado storm hits tomorrow.

  27. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    This Cliff Lee waiting game is taking it’s toll. Tweet from Jack Curry:

    “Listening to Clash songs covered by Japanese bands”.

  28. upstate kate December 11th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Comet
    We have about a foot of snow on the ground, a nice amount for the holidays. It was cold yesterday, 4 degrees in the am, but has warmed up considerably today.

  29. RhapsodyInBlue December 11th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Look up into the stands at Fenway during any game which is normally a sell-out, the number of non white faces in attendance can be counted on one hand.

  30. upstate kate December 11th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    I really enjoy Jack Curry, he was quite a find.

  31. Joey Ramone December 11th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    start_wearing_pink December 11th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
    Taxachusetts is still as racist as it’s ever been. Nothing has changed. Every time I walk down the streets there and see an African American, I worry that he may strung up by his neck.

    Yes, we all walk down the street wearing our white robes with hoods. Idiot…

  32. comet December 11th, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Katie just north of here there is no snow on the ground. They never got any! Green grass my girl.

  33. comet December 11th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Question:

    How did people find this Blog?

    I first found through a link on MLTR, I believe or in another article giving Pete credit for something.

  34. ac1 December 11th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    i really feel like cliff lee is just F-ing us with all this, knowing they are waiting for him while everyone else goes off the board.

  35. Bronx Jeers December 11th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    The Yankees may live to regret not sending Isiah Thomas to Little Rock. He and Lee could have swapped hunting stories (deer, female execs)

  36. start_wearing_pink December 11th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    @joey ramone

    hehe. dont need to see white robes when you hear constant use of racial epithets

  37. start_wearing_pink December 11th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    @comet

    what is your screen name on MLBTR?

  38. upstate kate December 11th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Comet
    I found this blog from Phil Hughes’ now extinct blog

  39. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Yes, we all walk down the street wearing our white robes with hoods. Idiot…

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Where do you get your laundry done?

  40. comet December 11th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    I don’t comment on MLBTR, so no screen name. Just read the rumours. Yours?

  41. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Jack Curry is awesome.

  42. GoYanks December 11th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    RhapsodyInBlue December 11th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
    Look up into the stands at Fenway during any game which is normally a sell-out, the number of non white faces in attendance can be counted on one hand.
    ===========
    This cannot be true; Massachusetts is the most “progressive” of all the states.

    Does anyone else think that start_wearing_pink is actually the “reincarnated CR9″?

  43. Nick in SF December 11th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    “How did people find this Blog?”

    It was linked to from a political blog which must remain nameless.

    It was referred to as an “indespensible” Yankee blog. I had never visited any kind of Yankee blog before so I clicked on the link out of curiosity.

  44. OCYankeesFan December 11th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Angel fans amaze me. One season removed from the playoffs and an incredible level of apathy has set in.

    There was very little “buzz” about Crawford coming to Anaheim. Not much said about him not coming to Anaheim . . .

    The only sports buzz around here right now has to do with who will end up with the Dodgers (the Mr. or the Mrs.), and whether or not Magic can bring an NFL team to LA (the Chargers would be nice).

    Arte who?

  45. start_wearing_pink December 11th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    @comet

    me neither. read the rumors and comments section, but dont post.

  46. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    “I can’t see why Russell Martin would choose the Yanks over the Sox or Jays were he has a better chance of winning the starting job. I hope I’m wrong, but I just don’t see it.”

    Because he doesn’t have a better chance to start in Boston. Varitek is a more sure thing to play a significant number of games than any Yankee catcher.

  47. Tom in N.J. December 11th, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    Found this blog while I was in the hospital. I was bored out of my mind and needed a distraction….

  48. G. Love December 11th, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    If Lee doesn’t want to play in NY that’s cool.

    We have an internal LH rotation option that everyone is just ignoring.

    Get your wrap around sunglasses ready. 2011 will be the year of Igawa!

    You heard it here first. Put it in the books.

    That sweet dealing lefty will carry the Yankees on his back.

    We’re in Kei’s hands now.

  49. comet December 11th, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Asked the question about how and where people found this blog because I’m curious about the diverse geographical sampling of the posters here. Also trying to keep busy rather than doing the chores awaiting me.

  50. ericns1 December 11th, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    You’re in Kei hands with Allstate!

  51. JCPD December 11th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    kate, 49 inches here……… supposedly 3 more feet on the way this week!!!! But, roads are cleared so I don’t have to be stuck inside reading all this repetitive stuff about Lee.

  52. comet December 11th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    G. Love:

    You are a sick man!

  53. upstate kate December 11th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    well JCPD you are in the snow belt now!

  54. Bronx Jeers December 11th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    I used to work with a Met fan who was always laughing out loud while reading the hysterical comments on a Met blog.

    I was bored so I figured there had to be a Yankee version of the same so I googled “Yankee Blog” and this was the first link.

  55. JCPD December 11th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    kate, it’s a fine line…. went home on Wednesday night and it was dry and starry skies. Well, only 5 more weeks here.

  56. comet December 11th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    Thanks Kate and Jeers and Tom.

  57. RhapsodyInBlue December 11th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    If you go onto google and type in “trolls on a yankee blog” this site comes up.

    Explains how the legions of kookamungas like ruby, clown, christina and the rest of the other riff raff found this blog.

  58. Nick in SF December 11th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    “…a Met fan who was always laughing out loud while reading the hysterical comments on a Met blog.”

    Laughter is the best medicine.

  59. Bronx Jeers December 11th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    I’m finding Twitter another place to have a few chuckles.

    For instance Joba just tweeted this photo with the caption “AMAZING!!!!!!”

    http://yfrog.com/h4qbhdj

    :lol:

  60. Tom in N.J. December 11th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Joba is the Goofiest person in this picture:

    http://yfrog.com/h26u7oj

  61. UnKnown December 11th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    From the looks of it Joba hasn’t really been working on an off-season program. Unless you call goofing off and watching Husker Football a program. I don’t see him becoming EIG anytime soon.

  62. BIG AL December 11th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    start_wearing_pink December 11th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
    Taxachusetts is still as racist as it’s ever been. Nothing has changed. Every time I walk down the streets there and see an African American, I worry that he may strung up by his neck.

    **************************************************

    I’ve read some real dumb things on this blog, but, man you just got first prize as a total A** hole. Take your sick mind and go to hell.

  63. Mstarr116 December 11th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    That picture isn’t promising, I would have thought Joba would have tried to lose weight this winter. But in fact it looks like hes put on some weight

  64. UnKnown December 11th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    So much potential just down the drain. What a disappointment Joba has been.

    I don’t think the whole is he a starter thing or a reliever helped him any but now he needs to help himself and get in shape and lose that stupid slider that he always wants to throw.

  65. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    How does one indict an entire state? Nuts.

  66. 108 stitches December 11th, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Crawford goes from a state with no state income tax to a state commonly known as Taxachusetts.
    Who would have ever thought that a man of color and former enemy while with the Rays would say, “My heart was in Boston”. Ahhh, yes. Money.
    Fans can be star struck in many cities but none any more than in Boston where an athlete can’t cut a piece of steak in a restaurant without being pestered by a silly intrusive fan hounding for an autograph.
    Ask Boomer Wells. He despised Boston for that and many more reasons.

  67. Erica in NY December 11th, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    comet December 11th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
    Question:

    How did people find this Blog?

    ***********

    I found this blog through the link on Yahoo MLB blogs-

    I followed Pete Abe for 2 years before ever looking at the comments (they scared me). But then I got swine flu and was quarantined for a week and needed distraction

  68. start_wearing_pink December 11th, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    im so glad aceves is gone. guy is a decent pitcher, but can never stay healthy. dont want to rely on his health to help our bullpen.

  69. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Found this blog when a friend recommended it. I’m in Southern California in a beach community.

  70. comet December 11th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Erica and WCYF thanks for helping me avoid those chores!

  71. DaSaint007 December 11th, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    With the speed of Crawford, Ellsbury, and Cameron, it would help to have 3 lefties in the rotation to try to keep those boston players close @ 1B.

    Need to find that other lefty for the pen to complement Logan. I’m all for Fuentes for 2 years or maybe Choate for 1 year.

    Back to the rotation. Am I missing something here?

    Option #1:
    CC, Lee, Hughes, Pettitte, and AJ. – Lee signs, Pettitte re-signs.

    Option #2:
    CC, Lee, Hughes, AJ + #5 starter – Lee signs, Pettitte retires.

    Option #3:
    CC, Hughes, Pettitte, AJ + #5 starter – No Lee, Pettitte re-signs.

    Option #4:
    Cc, Hughes, AJ, #4 Starter, #5 starter – No Lee, No Pettitte.

    In only 1 scenario do we not need to add an additional arm. Now I’m all in favor of Ivan Nova getting a shot, but it seems as if we should add a more experienced arm regardless, who can fit as a #4 or #5 starter, regardless of whether we sign Lee.

    I’d like to see if Cash could convince Kenny Williams to part with Edwin Jackson. He could be a #4 or #5 starter, or even swing man in the pen, and when no longer needed could easily be traded (as has been proven many times) to another team needing a rotation filler.

  72. Erica in NY December 11th, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    comet December 11th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
    Erica and WCYF thanks for helping me avoid those chores!

    ***********

    No problem. I have been trying to movitate myself for the last 2 hours to go to the gym.

    Yet I am still sitting around in my pjs.

    But I think I am going now…. :-(

  73. CB December 11th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    It’s very unfortunate that Yankee fans have started to make silly insults and generalizations against people in Boston and Massachusetts.

    It really comes off not only as dumb, but petty and resentful.

    And the thing is – for years Yankees fans would comment on how strange it was for Sox fans to be so obsessed and resentful towards the yankees. Resentment of the yankees was more important than what the Sox were doing in terms of success. And in turn, because it was difficult to knock the yankees performance on the field, Sox fans would insult New York itself.

    But then 2004 happened and small minded Yankee fans just joined up for the same kind of petty, resentful nonsense they would mock Sox fans for engaging in for years.

  74. RhapsodyInBlue December 11th, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    This blog is definitely a distraction.

    Cliff has our lives on hold.

  75. BIG AL December 11th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    CB -

    I think you’re wrong, it’s not Yankee fans that are making those comments, but the trolls that are here with the sole purpose of stirring up trouble.

    Look at the source of the comments, not where they are being made.

    If LoHud had people actually monitoring the blog and getting rid of the trash, it would be great, but, they believe all they are, are sports reporters, and don’t want, nor care to get involved in keeping this blog civil.

  76. OCYankeesFan December 11th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    I found this blog when Sam Borden (who worked elsewhere at the time) made a reference to it–a couple of weeks after Pete “the blog-father” started the thing.

    I run my own blog (on a completely different subject), but I lurk here pretty often. I always admired Pete’s ability to mix Yankee news, humor, and personal stuff (until he tired of herding cats and got too crabby). Chad has done a great job since.

  77. DaSaint007 December 11th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    I find no need to discuss social issues in boston. What I think of that city is clear every time I type it’s name, and it’s not borne out of my clear and present distaste for their sports franchises.

  78. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
    How does one indict an entire state? Nuts

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Don’t act so disgusted about it. It was a stupid remark to make, but, you’ve made similar and disparaging remarks about people in the south.

  79. start_wearing_pink December 11th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    having lived here for the past 45 years, and hearing the racial epithets thrown around on a daily basis, i think im in a fairly decent position to make that sort of statement. and i would have made the same statement prior to 2004. I respect and admire the Red Sox. the behavior of the inhabitants is a completely different story.

    @cb

    please continue with your unfounded amateur psychoanalysis.

  80. BIG AL December 11th, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    GB7 -

    You have to think of the source, then dismiss it as another ignorant statement when anyone talks about a state, or region in a disparaging manner.

  81. BIG AL December 11th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    GB7 -

    Now, can you see my point about a new blog?

  82. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    GB – I have no idea what comment you are talking about, feel free to post it and I will defend it or admit I was wrong.

    That aside, is that a surprise to you that the south has a strong, historical, factual tradition of certain social beliefs and behavior? What can I help you understand.

  83. BIG AL December 11th, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    GB7 -

    Did you go to the ebay link and look at that picture?

  84. start_wearing_pink December 11th, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    @wcyf

    can you explain to me the factual and historical social beliefs and behavior of the south?

  85. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Al and GB talk is cheap. Go start a blog. See ‘ya.

  86. CB December 11th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    Big Al-

    Could be. But I do find it ironic that many Yankee fans now engage in the same stupid generalizations and insults that Sox fans for so long aimed at NY because the Sox couldn’t compete with the Yankees on the field.

    You don’t like the Red Sox so you insult en masse an entire state? And then actually think you are making a valid point?

    Hard to get over. But I there’s a vein of petty resentment that’s developed within the Yankee fan base since 2004. And it’s ugly.

  87. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Pink I am not going to get into politics here. Anyone with a high school education understand the history of this country.

  88. comet December 11th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Erica this is getting spooky. we’re so much alike. And I remember you wanted to go to spring training with me in 2010. Good thing I’m married and older!

    C

  89. comet December 11th, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Al and GB I’d like to join your blog as well.

  90. pat December 11th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    I found the blog reading The Journal News.

    I had never read a blog before then and I lurked for a long time before I posted in the comments.

  91. 108 stitches December 11th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    The waiting on Cliff Lee is a reminder to many of the time a man from Cleveland, and just 2 years removed from becoming the principal owner of the Yankees, pursued pitcher James Augustus “Catfish” Hunter and landed him just before the New Year rang in for 1975.
    George Steinbrenner signed the free agent pitcher for less than $3M which then was top money and today is seen by middle relievers for 1 year of work before they move on.
    Cliff Lee will need outstanding years for the rest of his career before he can measure up to Catfish Hunter.

  92. Patrick December 11th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    If you think about it.. the Yankees had a ton of holes going into this offseason. They needed: a starting shortstop, a closer, 2 starting pitchers, a starting catcher, another arm in the bullpen and a few bench players.

    So far Cashman has filled the need for a shortstop, closer and catcher. We’ll know in a few days if he’s also gotten one of his starting pitchers.

    Sign Lee and this offseason is a huge success.

  93. BIG AL December 11th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    WCYF -

    Let me tell you one thing, having been raised in the North, and spending almost my entire life there, I found, after moving to NC, there is far more racial bias in the North than in the South.

    People get along here much better than in the North, and unless you’ve experienced it first hand, please don’t pull that crap about the history of the South, that’s what it is, history, that no longer applies to how people live their lives today.

  94. Nick in SF December 11th, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    I probably shouldn’t have used a topic that could be taken up by nutjobs in my joke, the point of which was that Carl Crawford said something ridiculous about his heart always being in Boston during his press conference.

  95. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    AL, I saw the picture of Mantle and his brothers. A great shot. One of very few I’ve seen of 3 of them together. Thanks for the link.

  96. comet December 11th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    Thanks Pat!

  97. TheStraw December 11th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Interesting that our President had to call on a southerner to bail him out yesterday.

  98. comet December 11th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    GB never heard of Mantle’s brothers. Would that have been a legend!

  99. DaSaint007 December 11th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Folks, ask a million people, get a million personal perspectives on all kinds of biases, North, South, here and abroad.

    We now resume our regularly scheduled baseball talk.

    About those Yankee holes…

  100. BIG AL December 11th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    WCYF -

    I’ve bitten my tongue on many occasions with some of your foolish posts, but, you are nothing but a condescending bore.

    You pose yourself as being superior, when infact you are the opposite.

  101. CB December 11th, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    “Sign Lee and this offseason is a huge success.”

    Patrick-

    That’s very much the case. This off season is pretty much a binary outcome depending on what Lee does.

    That’s why he’s going to get paid so much.

    People keep describing the yankees as being “desperate.” I think it’s different than that.

    Getting Lee allows them to most directly utilize what they have the most of – money.

    Signing Lee is just far more preferable and allows them to maximize utilities along the lines they would like to do.

    They can come up with a “plan b.” It’s just not nearly as attractive as signing Lee. Sign Lee and the pieces come together very neatly.

  102. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    BIG AL December 11th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    WCYF -Let me tell you one thing, having been raised in the North, and spending almost my entire life there, I found, after moving to NC, there is far more racial bias in the North than in the South.

    People get along here much better than in the North, and unless you’ve experienced it first hand, please don’t pull that crap about the history of the South, that’s what it is, history, that no longer applies to how people live their lives today.

    ********************

    I really do not want to get into politics. I lived in the south for ten years and voting patters would back up my contention as well. I will leave it at that.

  103. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    Comet, there isn’t a blog as far as I know…..at least, none that I’m part of. With my typing and spelling skills, I’d spend all day making corrections. I just hang out here annoying people with my historical posts.

  104. BIG AL December 11th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    Back to talking baseball – Later.

  105. BD (Boston Dave) December 11th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Quite a few posts by WCYF end up being associated with the words crap, nonsense, idiocy, annoying, or foolish over the past week.

    Hmm…

  106. comet December 11th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Texas conundrum in signing Lee (if it happens):

    http://www.bbtia.com/home/2010.....um=twitter

  107. start_wearing_pink December 11th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    this offseason has been a success with the loss of Aceves. addition by subtraction. Adios Ace, take your unhealthy back elsewhere…

  108. pat December 11th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Today is the 10th anniversary of Alex signing the $252 M Texas deal so it’s the perfect decision day for C.Lee.

    Either he can follow Alex’s path from Seattle to Texas to NY or he can stay in Texas and the fanbase there can worry if this contract will bankrupt them too! :wink:

  109. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    And just to clarify Al – I never made a blanket indictment of every single person in every state. I am talking about general historical trends and deeply rooted cultural and social belief systems. There are also millions of enlightened people in the south.

  110. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    I will wear it as a badge of honor Al. Have a great day.

  111. DaSaint007 December 11th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    CB, my plan B if Lee doesn’t sign:

    1. Trade for either Edwin Jackson or Scott Kazmir to fill the back end of the rotation.
    2. Put Ivan Nova in the pen. He could be useful there or as a spot starter.
    3. Sign Brian Fuentes on a two year deal for the pen. He couldn’t compete with next year’s FA closer class, so a 2 year deal would be a tactical advantage for him.
    4. Re-sign Kerry Wood for the pen or Jon Rauch, either also on a 2 year deal.
    5. Sign Russel Martin to a 2 year deal. He’s eminently tradable.

  112. pat December 11th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    NickSwisher So…What’s everyone up to today?

    Swish has nothing better to do on his wedding day than Tweet?

  113. 38HotDogs December 11th, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    I did a search on Bruce Springsteen + scarcastic, bitter Boston fans living in NY and found this place

  114. DaSaint007 December 11th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    With my plan I’m shortening games by strengthening the pen: Mariano, Fuentes, Wood, Robertson, Logan, Nova.

    I’m adding a lefty in Kazmir, in case or regardless of what happens with Lee or Pettitte. Another lefty is needed in the rotation for boston’s lineup.

    Edwin Jackson is an improving pitcher, and could bring back some prospects if he needed to be moved, but could adequately fill the back end of the rotation as well.

    I’m also creating a cushion for Montero. Now if Montero does well behind the plate, you can always move Martin next season or keep him as a backup if Posada retires.

    Everyone gets added as a 1 or 2 year deal for flexibility.

    Joba gets traded in any trade scenario.

  115. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    A return to health of Aceves would be a welcome addition to the Yankee bullpen. He has had one injury to his back and now he’s told to take a hike? Pitchers have had worse injuries and returned to affective and useful productivity.

  116. Patrick December 11th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    “They can come up with a “plan b.” It’s just not nearly as attractive as signing Lee. Sign Lee and the pieces come together very neatly.”

    CB,

    Yep. I’m sure Cashman will acquire pitching if Lee signs with Texas but whoever he gets won’t be as good as Lee and he’ll have to give up prospects or even major league talent. It’d be nice to have someone like Greinke but it would be a very bittersweet acquisition after losing out on Lee and saying goodbye to Montero + prospects.

  117. JK December 11th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    Besides Greinke, I think the next front end starter to become available will be Carpenter. He’s making 15M, he’s in the last year of his deal and St. Louis is looking at 270M+ to Pujols.

  118. start_wearing_pink December 11th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    A healthy Aceves would be a welcomed addition. but ever since he spot started against minnesota prior the all star break in 2009, he has not been fully healthy. and a back injury for a pitcher can be debilitating. id rather the yankees not be relying on his health for our bullpen success.

  119. AldotheApache December 11th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    Big Al, I was born in the north and now live in the south. I’ve also spent time in NC. and I’ve observed the same as you have.

  120. DaSaint007 December 11th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Hey GB. True about Aceves.
    I’d add him to the pen if healthy, which he probably won’t be out of ST.
    Mariano, Fuentes, Wood, Robertson, Logan, Aceves, Nova.

    Mariano is Mariano, so that should be around 35 saves.
    Fuentes is a lefty, but can close also, so he may have 2 to 5 saves.
    Wood, a righty, can also close, so he may have 2 to 5 saves.
    Robertson, Logan, Aceves and Nova form a pretty decent combo as a bridge to Mo.

    Joba has value, and should be able to bring back a Jackson or Kazmir, especially as we’d be also offering salary releif for either of their teams.

  121. JK December 11th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    If Texas signs Lee….. Hamilton or Cruz hits the trade market within 2 years.

  122. DaSaint007 December 11th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    I’d also invite Taylor Tankersly to ST.

  123. vrsce December 11th, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    Sign Martin; include Montero in a trade for Grienke. Easier than a reluctant lee for 7 years.

  124. kd December 11th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    here’s how i see the lee thing:

    there’s simply no way he cannot think about being arod version 2 at texas. they won’t have a huge payroll. he’ll be the guy making 25 to 30% of the money and that will handicap the team going forward. why would he want that? especially since he is likely to get less money from texas?

    it’s just a really good job by his agent to get the yankees to go from 5/120 to 7/165.

    you have to give that guy credit, he got aj a 5th year and now got lee a 6th and 7th.

  125. vrsce December 11th, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Withdraw the offer and et Texas keep Lee, if they will take AJ on as well.

  126. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Simon, I’m hoping that Aceves signs a minor league deal with NY and get healthy. He was a big weapon out of the pen. Had he started all along, or just stayed a relief pitcher, I don’t think that the back issues would have everhappened. Just my opinions though, since I’ve never been a pro pitcher or had back issues, I don’t know that for sure.

  127. CB December 11th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    “I probably shouldn’t have used a topic that could be taken up by nutjobs in my joke,”

    You know Susan, you just can’t predict a nutjob.

  128. Carlo December 11th, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    @CB – hahahaha…….outstanding use of “you know suzyn”…always makes me laugh.

  129. coney1 December 11th, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    incarceratedbob

    **MLB BREAKING NEWS ALERT** *BREAKING NEWS* Source: Has informed IBN Cliff Lee will be staying in Texas & has turned down Yankees (Ughh)

  130. coney1 December 11th, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    NYBD

    Incarcerated Bob says Lee staying in Texas

  131. Chase December 11th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Lee is a Ranger. Cool.

  132. Jerkface December 11th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Why is anyone talking about what that guy says?

  133. Tom in N.J. December 11th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    Dude’s trolling the entire twitter-verse.

  134. Against All Odds December 11th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    # Jerkface December 11th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Why is anyone talking about what that guy says?
    —————————————————————-

    Ppl starving for news remember how crazy the Lebron thing was

  135. Carl December 11th, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    http://yankees.lhblogs.com/201.....nt-1599680

    Read this

  136. CB December 11th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    DaSaint-

    I like a few of the points in your plan. First, we can debate whether its Jackson or someone, else, if they do miss out on Lee then I think they should probably target someone at that level of pitcher and take their chances.

    I just think getting a guy like Greinke is going to be so cost prohibitive that it’s not going to wind up making sense.

    Get a guy who can give you above average innings and ask Andy to come back for one more go. If they can do that they’ll be ok and hopefully the kids will continue to develop this season and can step into the rotation in 2012.

    Fuentes – I really don’t want to see unless he’s exclusively a LOOGY. And I think he’ll get a deal elsewhere that will pay him more than a LOOGY makes.

    They don’t need to offer Martin more than a one year deal. He’s still arb eligible and will be at the end of this season. He doesn’t have the service time to leave on his own.

    Don’t think Joba has much trade value.

  137. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    The fallout after Lee makes his decision should be interesting to say the least, whatever he decides.

  138. Against All Odds December 11th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    ?
    rebexarama?: but incarcerated bob told me a week ago that cliff lee to the yankees was a done deal!!!

  139. Stoneburner December 11th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    sounds like incarcerated bob needs to be put in solitary confinement. . . again.

  140. Against All Odds December 11th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Has bob ever been right about anything?

  141. seeknay December 11th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    ISN”T CLIFF LEE HIMSELF ANXIOUS TO MAKE A DECISION AND TO ANNOUNCE IT TO THE WORLD? WHAT THE H ELL IS TAKING SO LONG!!!!!!!! HE IS JUST BEING VERY SELFISH NOW AND PERSONALLY I AM STARTING TO HATE HIM AND HIS DEER HUNTING WAYS.. HUNTING SOULD BE ILLEGAL..

    YOU’VE KNOWN SINCE OCTOBER THAT THE YANKEES WOULD OFFER THE HIGHEST CONTRACT, YOU’VE HAD TIME TO THINK ABOUT THIS, TO THINK ABOUT PLACES TO LIVE, ABOUT A LIFE STYLE CHANGE… WHAT YOUR TELLIMG ME YOU DIDNT START THINKING ABOUT THIS UNTIL WEDNESDAY? COME ON ALREADY!!!!!!!! I CANT SLEEP AT NIGTHT ALL I THINK ABOUT IS CLIFF LEE…

  142. Red Lobster December 11th, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    If this is true, Yanks need to make one last call to Braunecker and offer 7/$175, final offer.

    IMO, the gap appears to be too small between NYY and TX. We need to widen it a little more to make it a harder decision for him

  143. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    I admit to being way too caught up in this Lee drama. I have MLBTR as an app on my I-Phone and it beeps when they post a new thread. It slipped off the console onto the passenger side floor and I almost ran my car into a pole yesterday trying to reach it.

  144. Chase December 11th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    Red Lobster.

    Shut up.

  145. Chase December 11th, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    hahaha WCYF

  146. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Sad but true.

  147. seeknay December 11th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    HEY CLIFF LEE, THE RANGERS ARE ALREADY TRYING TO TRADE SOME OF THEIR STAR PLAYERS (MICHAEL YOUNG) TO MAKE ROOM FOR YOU!! WITH YOU TAKING UP 25% OF THEIR PAYROLL OVER THE NEXT 6 YEARS DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THE RANGERS CAN AFFORD TO GO OUT AND PUT A WINNING TEAM ON THE FIELD EVERY YEAR? ITS ALREADDDDY STARTING… WHAT HAPPENS WHEN HAMILTON ASKS FOR A NEW DEAL? SAY BYE BYE.. I WOULDNT WANT TO BE A ONE MAN SHOW.

  148. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    How much of a Braunecker fan do you think Cliff Lee is? Could he possibly have squeezed one more dime out of these billionaires? Not a dime. Masterful job.

  149. Chase December 11th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    seeknay…. see a counselor.

  150. seeknay December 11th, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    EVERYTHING DEPENDS ON CLIFF LEE.. WITHOUT LEE, PETTITTE DOESNT WANT TO COME BACK BC HE KNOWS THE CHANCES OF WINNING GOES DOWN SIGNIFANTLY.. AND WITHOUT LEE, RUSSELL MARTIN CHOOSES BOSTON OVER THE YANKEES BECAUSE HE TOO DOESNT WANT TO BE ON A 2nd or 3rd PLACE TEAM… THE YANKEES SHOULD CALL UP Darek Braunecker RIGHT NOW AND RAISE THE OFFER by 5 MIL… MAYBE THAT WOULD PUT IT OVER THE EDGE.

  151. TheStraw December 11th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Stop shouting.

  152. Yank1 December 11th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    “How much of a Braunecker fan do you think Cliff Lee is? Could he possibly have squeezed one more dime out of these billionaires? Not a dime. Masterful job.”

    And he probably isn’t done yet either.

    The funny part is that his agent actually was on record saying they were not seeking a CC-type contract… which was odd considering agents always shoot for the moon, that shows that they didn’t even think a CC contract was realistic. Well, that’s what our latest offer is and the final offer is probably going to be even more.

    I don’t think, even in their wildest dreams, they thought they would have this kind of success. Most people here were talking about 5/$115 as being able to get him.

  153. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    seeknay using all caps on a blog is considered shouting. Please stop. Thank you.

  154. UnKnown December 11th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    Giants can’t get into Minnesota for tomorrows game. Looking out my window I can definitely co-sign on that report. Ugly Blizzard.

  155. seeknay December 11th, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    picture of cliff lee from highschool here:

    http://assets.nydailynews.com/.....arbook.jpg

    thoughts?

  156. UnKnown December 11th, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    I say the Yankees use that pic as a form of blackmail and just tell Cliff that they are going to post that pic on the front of the NY Daily. That should be enough to get him to sign.

  157. mick December 11th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    You cannot trade Montero under any circumstances.

  158. start_wearing_pink December 11th, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    @unknown hehe

  159. vrsce December 11th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    “You cannot trade Montero under any circumstances”
    =======================
    If Lee does not sign, Montero is gone.

  160. Yogi Mantle December 11th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    I think too many people thought that the Rangers weren’t going to be serious in their bidding given the heavy obligations they already have. I think this thing took on a life of its own with Ryan and Co. looking to play chicken. I have to wonder if Texas will be sick both ways about this. Either they get him and it cripples them financially, or they lose him and suffer with their rotation being weaker. Its not a good place they put themselves into. The Rangers could win Lee, yet lose due to what all the other players will start to cost them. You can’t give a big raise to one player and not have it impact every other contract you sign, at least to a certain point.

    I wonder if this was more emotionally driven by Ryan wanting to stand up to the Yankees might.

    Its a riot to see how fans on both sides are getting frustrated about this, one way or the other. Maybe that part of their planning.

    It could be that they are now waiting on the news cycle, such as tomorrow night to feed the papers and shows on Monday, rather than having it be “old news” by Monday.

  161. comet December 11th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Where did Erica and Kate go? Where are Doreen and Erin?

    I’m missing my girlfriends.

    C

  162. mick December 11th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    If Lee does not sign, Montero is gone.
    =======================
    That is popular opinion but to do so for Greinke is a mistake.

  163. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Soriano and Lee on the Yankees would make this a great off season IMO.

    Now that the Angels are out of the Soriano picture, could he come down on his asking price and closing demands to make something work with the Yankees?

    Maybe 2 years $24 million. With a shot at closing when Mo retires or is hurt?

    Could the Red Sox move Papelbon and get in on Soriano?

  164. Carl December 11th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Royals already have a catching prospect that might not be able to catch.

  165. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    “If Lee does not sign, Montero is gone.”

    The CW is usually anything but.

  166. Ruby Tuesday December 11th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    2010 Cliffie Lee signs with Texas .

    2011 B*st*n R*d S*x win World Series .

    2012 Economic depression deepens: unemployment rate hits twelfth percent . B*st*n R*d S*x repeat as World Champions . The world ends as predicted by Mayans on December twenty-first, two thousand twelfth .

  167. Patrick December 11th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    If Lee does not sign, Montero is gone.

    Doubtul

  168. Carl December 11th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    http://www.baseball-reference......ers-006wil

    Wil Myers

  169. mick December 11th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    With the money they save on Lee, maybe they can stop being pennypinchers.
    What do they expect to pay Feliciano or Choate now that Downs got 15/3?

  170. comet December 11th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Mick I agree it has to for an AL pitcher like Verlander, if Montero is traded and frankly he ought not to be traded. Surely we can wait if need be for our youngsters and perhaps have Joba in for a meeting with Cashman and Girardi. One thing I’m dead against is trading Montero for an NL pitcher, even Josh Johnson, they always seem to fail in the AL>

  171. JM December 11th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    For some reason I just don’t think Lee is coming to the Yanks…I would be glad to be wrong, but unhappy about a seven-year contract….

    And I would really, really hate to see them panic and deal Montero if Lee turns them down.

  172. 108 stitches December 11th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    Both Jeter and Rivera have deferred money in their new contracts to help with the signing of Cliff Lee. It may turn out to be helping their buddy Andy.

  173. Patrick December 11th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    Soriano is repped by Boras. Think K-rod money.

  174. Patrick December 11th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    Soriano is repped by Boras. Think K-rod money.

  175. mick December 11th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    They have got to upgrade the pen.
    Downs would have been a great addition but they can’t afford him?
    Save a million here and there on Feliciano or Choate?
    They need 3 leftys out there for Boston .

  176. Carl December 11th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Lee is enjoying time with his old teammates before he leaves to NY.

  177. raymagnetic December 11th, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Montero isn’t getting traded.

  178. vrsce December 11th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Montero isn’t getting traded
    ===========================
    So Cashman (Hal &Hank) will stand pat if lee turns the Yankees offer down?

  179. DaSaint007 December 11th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    CB,

    I agree that Greinke is cost prohibitive in tems of talent needed for that deal, and frankly, the last time the Royals were relevant, George Brett had to use a new bat.

    I wouldn’t even mind Pettitte ‘retiring’ if he would agree to come back the second half of the season, as Clemens did.

    I don’t even think I want Lee anyway, and have been on record as saying that I think he’s not coming here. God forbid he gets injured or pulls those abdominals or whatever he had previously, or a bad back and he becomes Pavano II or should I say Pavano x4.

    I’d much rather take my chances elsewhere for a younger more-average pitcher, and let me system fill in the pieces at the back end of the rotation, and then strengthen my bullepen and bench.

    I would focus on defense and run creation (steals, hit and run, taking that extra base) and then run prevention by creating a shut down bullpen from the 6th inning on.

    Frankly, if the FA period continues, and he’s not offered a contract he wants, maybe even Soriano’s price drops and he could be added to the pen. Even he would be at least $8M/year cheaper than Lee!

  180. mick December 11th, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    They can’t win with the same squad they had last year?
    Andy will come back. AJ can’t be as bad .
    If they stay healthy they are as good or better than last year.
    Boston has many question marks.

  181. Carlo December 11th, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Mick – there is no need to carry 3 lefty relievers because of Boston. Let’s be realistic here. We play 162 games and we are going to cater our linup for 18 of them? Furthermore, if we get Lee and Andy returns, we have 3 lefty starters, 2 of which pitch deep into games……so if they give us 7 innings, u want to use a lefty per batter in the 8th before giving the ball to Mariano? Two lefties is plenty in the pen. Plenty

  182. vrsce December 11th, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Perhaps they can use the money they save on lee and use it to pay for a transplant; Andy’s brain into AJ’s body.

  183. mick December 11th, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Carlo
    I can live with 2 leftys but remember the playoffs and I’m not sure about Logan.

  184. raymagnetic December 11th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    “So Cashman (Hal &Hank) will stand pat if lee turns the Yankees offer down?”

    Montero isn’t the Yankees only trade chip. They don’t have to trade for an ace if they don’t get Lee. Therefore in my opinion he isn’t getting traded.

  185. mick December 11th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Wasn’t Downs the best lefty out there?
    Didn’t they once go after the best?
    Even though they throw (threw?) around money they still look cheap.

  186. LGY December 11th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    So incarcerated bob said Lee is a Ranger?

    Awesome! That means he is bound for the Bronx!

  187. Carlo December 11th, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    One power lefty (logan) and one matchup lefty (feliciano) and we should be good. Robertson and mariano get lefties out as well.

    Agree though Mick, Logan is no guarantee…..but there’s always the trade deadline to fix the pen if its failing.

  188. Carlo December 11th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    @lgy – yes, bob said he is a ranger, but heyman thinks he’s coming to the yanks……so its still a coin flip.

  189. BJK December 11th, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Big money on middle relief is not the ideal way to invest your resources, especially when a draft pick is at risk.

    If Lee doesn’t sign, the Yankees would have given up their 1st rounder for a middle reliever. 2nd round pick would have been bad enough.

  190. mick December 11th, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Is it possible Lee is ironing out the final details with Texas as we speak and preparing it for one last shot with Cash or if he gets exactly what he wants there he is finished with us?

  191. DaSaint007 December 11th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Carlo,

    I’m for having 2 lefties in the pen out of ST (Logan + ???), and 2 major-league capable lefties at AAA just in case. Taylor Tankersly could be one of those rehabbing types who could take a minor league deal. Instead we’re expected to watch a Rule 5 sub-par lefty try to make the roster?

  192. Carlo December 11th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    Mick – anything is possible, but its far more likely that he is doing nothing waiting for Brauneker to tell him its ok to announce his decision, they’ve milked it for all its worth.

  193. ac1 December 11th, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    who started the Lee chose Texas rumor?

  194. Yank1 December 11th, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    “Is it possible Lee is ironing out the final details with Texas as we speak and preparing it for one last shot with Cash or if he gets exactly what he wants there he is finished with us?”

    I think the latter. Chances are, we are already well-ahead of where Texas is. If he really wanted to come here, why would he want even more on top of that?

    And Lee knows that if he did go back to the Yankees for the last shot, the Yankees would give him what he wants to satisfy him. So that’s not the issue. The question is if Texas has made a compelling enough offer to make it worth his while to take a large discount.

    If he is really considering TX that seriously, why would $170 million vs. $161 convince him to change his mind?

  195. Swishalicious33 December 11th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Still nothing? Damn, I just got home and was hoping to hear some kind of news on this.

  196. Ed H. December 11th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    I’ve got mixed feelings about Lee. Mostly, I’m worried, as many are, about that seven year contract for a 32 year-old pitcher with a history of injuries. Short term, we’re better off with Lee. Long term, we’re better off waiting to fill the rotation with young, inexpensive guys from our farm system. Although part of me wants the Yanks to get every shiny new toy on the shelves, ultimately I’d opt for the long term benefits.

  197. seeknay December 11th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Cliff Lee staying as a Texas Ranger. Source: Cliff Lee. Details to come at 5:45 c/t.
    http://twitter.com/jkahn24

  198. Carl December 11th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    # seeknay December 11th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Cliff Lee staying as a Texas Ranger. Source: Cliff Lee. Details to come at 5:45 c/t.
    http://twitter.com/jkahn24

    Great Twitter account.

  199. DaSaint007 December 11th, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    I’m NOT in favor of giving a 32 year old lefty with 9 seasons under his belt, and a lifetime 102-61 record, a 7 year contract valued at over $24M/year.

    Andy, in his first 9 years was 149-61, and was much younger. Too much money, too many years for Lee IMHO.

  200. mick December 11th, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    I think the latter. Chances are, we are already well-ahead of where Texas is. If he really wanted to come here, why would he want even more on top of that?
    ==========================================
    Then it would make sense that he is trying to get Texas to match what we offer and stay there.

  201. Gary December 11th, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    The silence I think speaks volumes. Prepare yourself for the Lee isn’t coming decision.

    The Yanks messed up last winter and so far they are on the way to not having a great one this year either.

    Lee not coming to NY if it happens has a double effecxt, we don’t get his production and The Ranges get again to have them to throw against us, assuming we can get by Boston.

  202. Carlo December 11th, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Gary – how does the silence speak volumes as it relates to him not coming to NY? What’s the logic behind that?

    What if I said the silence means he isn’t going to Texas?

  203. REZ12 December 11th, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Hughes and AJ need to step up in a big way. No sophomore slump for Hughes allowed… no implosion season for AJ allowed.

    And hope whoever replaces Vazquez can keep the ball in the park…

    We can still be OK if the older players on offense have good years.

  204. REZ12 December 11th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    IF we don’t get Lee, I should add

  205. DaSaint007 December 11th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Lee isn’t invincible. He’s lifetime 102-61 folks.

    And, em, last I checked he got beat by an NL team named the SF Giants – twice.

    Lee isn’t invincible. Don’t believe the hype. He’s worth 5 years.
    6 years is a gift.
    7 years and Cashman should be fired. Even Nolan Ryan – Nolan FREAKING Ryan says 7 years for a pitcher is unpredictable territory.

    Listen to Nancy Reagan Cash – JUST SAY NO.

  206. clownthrowindown December 11th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Cashman: “Its tough losing to the Rangers again for Lee. And its tough watching Theo beat me to Crawford while I waited…especially after he already traded for AGon. But sometimes you just have to tip your cap.”

  207. Gary December 11th, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    Carlo, I think if it was just money he would have signed by now. I don’t think he really wants to come to NY, that’s how I have felt all along.

    Trying to see on ESPN now if there is anything on the 5:45 rumor, so far nothing.

  208. Nick in SF December 11th, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    No news is good news (for someone).

  209. vrsce December 11th, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    All righty then, before the official announcement, I am hopeful that Lee does not sign. 7 years id too long for a 32 year old pitcher.

  210. Melk Man December 11th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    “Then it would make sense that he is trying to get Texas to match what we offer and stay there.”

    But he knows Texas will never match us dollar for dollar. If he wants to stay there, he knows he has to take less anyway. It’s just a matter of how much less.

    Will be interesting to see what he finally does.

  211. Ed H. December 11th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    DaSaint, my head strongly agrees with you though my heart wants Lee in order to make this coming season more exciting. Push come to shove, in this case, I go with my better judgment and say “no” to the Lee deal.

  212. Gary December 11th, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Nothing on ESPN about any announcement or decision.

  213. mick December 11th, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    They don’t have to beat us, just match us, with their better tax situation, they beat us.

  214. Carlo December 11th, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Gary – if u are referring to that absurd twitter account, jkahn, don’t waste ur time looking on espn.

    Gary – the reason it is taking this long is because everyone knew cliff did want to pitch here so they are leveraging time to get the best deal from the Yanks.

  215. Stoneburner December 11th, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Via WEEI: Theo Epstein has told friends that he is ashamed of his farm system and the overall state of it. A source confirms that the Red Sox would not have acquired Adrian Gonzales if Jed Hoyer was not the General Manager. The source says, “Theo put all of his eggs in the Lars Anderson basket. When that blew up, it was a scramble. Luckily Jeff Moorad bought the Padres and hired another Theo disciple in Jed Hoyer. He did the same with Josh Byrnes.” Epstein will go back to doing what he knows best, sending holiday cards to the guys at Baseball America and having his scouts return their phone calls. Privately, Epstein also acknowledges that he messed up signing John Lackey and resigning Josh Beckett, and he would have been better of going after a big ticket free agent starter like C.C. Sabathia or Cliff Lee to lock down the division.

  216. Nick in SF December 11th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    The first non-Cliff Lee tweet from that link was an end zone dance video sent to Ochocinco [sic].

    Is there anything on ESPN about that?

  217. DaSaint007 December 11th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    CC should win 18-20 games.
    AJ was horrible last year – yet won 10 games. He should rebound to 15-18.
    Hughes may not win 18 games, but could win at least 15-17 in his second season starting.
    Andy – if he returns – could win 14-16 games.

    That’s a pretty good rotation folks, with 62- 71 wins from the #1 to # 4 starter.

    And if we can get 10-12 wins out of the #5 slot, then great, that’s 72-83 games.
    Let the bullpen do the rest.

  218. mick December 11th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    They can match us by giving less.

  219. Gary December 11th, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    Nick there is nothing on ESPN the Twitter rumor is BS

  220. Carlo December 11th, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Mick – I can’t tell if u are kidding about the tax thing or not…..if u are not, the tax this is ridiculous. For our offers to be equal, with tax impact, they have to offer $159 mm versus our $161 mm

  221. seeknay December 11th, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Will someone in Arkansas please find out where Cliff lives.. stalk around his house and please find out for us what the devil is going on.

  222. mick December 11th, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    DaSaint

    It comes down to this: 2 Aces beats 1 .
    Their Ace is Lester, not Beckett anymore.

  223. mick December 11th, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    # mick December 11th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    They can match us by giving less.
    ==========Carlo============
    See above.

  224. Carlo December 11th, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    Nick – go create a twitter account, I will follow u on twitter….and u can have as many followers as jkahn24.

  225. vrsce December 11th, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    The so called tax advantage is , as Carlo states, worth 2mm. so no real advantage.

  226. Nick in SF December 11th, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    I suspected as much, Gary.

    People, relax! I know the waiting and surface uncertainty can be nerve-wracking, but Cliff Lee will be wearing Yankee pinstripes in short order.

    Since Plan B involves Superman flying counter-clockwise around the planet and us signing Aroldis Chapman, this must be so!

  227. Carlo December 11th, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    Mick – right, given taxes, if they want to offer $159 mm versus our $161, they will be matching us. Its not significant. Its meaningless actually.

  228. seeknay December 11th, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    hey guys everyone should go create a twitter account right now and report that the yankees signed lee.. so far twitter is being totatlly dominated by rangers fans.. you guys gonna sit back and let that happen?

  229. Ed H. December 11th, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    For Lee, I think that the decision pretty much comes down to family/quality of life value (Texas) vs career and financial value (NY). I don’t know what Lee’s value system is but I’m pretty sure I can guess where his wife comes down on this issue. Married guys, how many million dollars per year is it worth to keep your wife happy and off your back for the next seven years???

  230. LGY December 11th, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    Mystery team, then double mystery team, then mystery conference call, now mystery press conference?

    Ooo, this is getting exciting.

  231. Carlo December 11th, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    Everyone should take a deep breathe and read what Nick in SF said…..cliff lee will be a yankee…..I 100% unwaveringly agree…..the final confirmation will be made sweeter for everyone here given ur panic levels, I will take it in stride and move on to the next binary decision in front of us.

  232. Nick in SF December 11th, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    Of course I could be very wrong if the mystery team is Justin Bieber.

  233. mick December 11th, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    Is Crawford + Agon >Beltre + VMart?
    Their pen is worse than last year.
    At the very worst, one of them is a wildcard.
    That is where Lee figures in.
    Also, Lester, Buccholz and the ? mark that is Beckett > CC, Hughes, Andy?
    Lee should ask for 8 and get this over with.
    He would get it.

  234. Carlo December 11th, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Ed – I am married but don’t have hundreds of millions…..I suggest u ask amber sabathia and see where she comes down on the issue.

  235. JoeMimic December 11th, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    I posted something on twitter saying Lee had spurned the Rangers for a seven year offer from the Yankees. Hopefully someone takes me seriously and we turn this rumor mill around.

  236. Ed H. December 11th, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    Carlo, agreed. You’d have to assume that you’ve got millions to burn for that to work. If only …

  237. Carlo December 11th, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    I’m curious…..why does everyone claim the quality of life in texas is better than that of North Jersey or New York City?

    If I had $160 mm I would probably want to enjoy the money…..granted, that’s 8 million trips to ponderosa, dallas/ft worth, but maybe something a bit more upscale would fit me better.

    I’m sure though the insufferable heat of the texas summer is the quality of life draw in texas…..that or maybe the high school football.

  238. 108 stitches December 11th, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    No Lee annoucement should be expected until Monday or Tuesday. Selig may have told both teams that MLB doesn’t want to rain on the parade of college football, the PGA, or the NFL and distupt the TV ratings to channel surf baseball news during commercials.

  239. Gary December 11th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Don’t know what they will do, but it looks like Smith and Nicks might both be in uniform for the game against Minn

  240. clownthrowindown December 11th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Pettitte, the Core Four guy, is making Cashman wait (even longer than Lee) because of family considerations (like Lee) and may be walking away from millions of Yankee $$$ (like Lee).

    But no one is trashing Pettitte and/or his wife. If anything, he should be catching more flak from the impatient ones here than Lee. Lee has no loyalty to the team like Pettitte does.

    I don’t think either should be rushed, but its typical Yankee fan hypocrisy to judge a Yankee one way and another guy differently.

  241. mick December 11th, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    Pettitte is waiting on Lee…

  242. Carlo December 11th, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    Brauneker has a mystery dingleberry hanging from his left cheek….he needs time to think about it…..he’s unsure what to make of it…..he’s gonna evaluate….it could be a while.

  243. RhapsodyInBlue December 11th, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    Pettitte and the rest of the planet.

  244. Gary December 11th, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    108 stitches

    Don’t think it matters at all, when he decides it will be announced. Everyone in Baseball needs to move forward from this. It has paralized the system.

  245. Bret The Hitman December 11th, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    I could post a pro-Yankees Cliff Lee rumor on my NYYrumors Twitter account, but none of the media would bite. Sometimes I try to bait them but it never works. Even if all 23 of my followers happened to see the pro-Yankees Cliff Lee tweet and retweet it, it wouldn’t get much traction. Could be a moral victory though.

  246. mick December 11th, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    m

    Brauneker has a mystery dingleberry hanging from his left cheek….
    =======================
    Is it Lupus, is it lupus, jerry?

  247. mick December 11th, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    I don’t get it…if enough people tweet something, does it make it true?

  248. Carlo December 11th, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    I know clown says a lot of inflammatory things, but he is right about Pettitte. Every year its the same story and whether cashman admits it or now, it jams him up.

    Assume we sign Lee….then the free agent starter market heats up…..and we sit there waiting for Andy for the 3rd straight year. I don’t care what anyone says, what Andy does annually is annoying and disruptive.

  249. Ed H. December 11th, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Carlo, I think that “quality of life” comes down to individual preference, to a large degree. I’m not saying that life in Texas is inherently better than in NY, just that I think that the lifestyle Texas offers is more compatible with what the Lees want. Someone posted a very interesting link here a couple of days ago to an interview with Kristen Lee in which she detailed how much better life would be for the family if Lee stays in Texas.

  250. Melk Man December 11th, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Cashman and Girardi both said that when they called Andy to ask him for an update, he told them he really wants them to get Lee. Combine that with the Heyman/Sherman tweets about how beat up Andy’s body is and how it is doubtful he will come back without Lee…. well, draw your own conclusions.

    I mean, I guess they could entice him with a nice payraise, but it seems that Lee/Andy are intertwined.

  251. Bret The Hitman December 11th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    I did it anyway.

    NYYrumors

    @PeteAbe Cliff Lee + wife set to make decision tomorrow! Someone connected to the Lee’s says YANKEES YANKEES YANKEES!!! #Yankees #CliffLee
    less than 5 seconds ago via web in reply to PeteAbe

  252. mick December 11th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    what Andy does annually is annoying and disruptive.
    =================================
    Andy the Family Man?

  253. JoeMimic December 11th, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    Bret,

    I followed and re-tweeted. We can make this thing go….Maybe

  254. Carlo December 11th, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    Hate to be harsh, but what it boils down to is that kristen is a 5 in arkansas and a 1.5 in NY. Simple, but true. ;)

  255. mick December 11th, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    I followed and re-tweeted. We can make this thing go….Maybe
    =========================================
    Like the Wave at the Stadium

  256. pat December 11th, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Been in and out all day so don’t know if this is old news……

    #Dodgers sign LHP Wilkin de la Rosa,

  257. 108 stitches December 11th, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    mick December 11th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
    Is Crawford + Agon >Beltre + VMart?
    Their pen is worse than last year.
    At the very worst, one of them is a wildcard.
    That is where Lee figures in.
    Also, Lester, Buccholz and the ? mark that is Beckett > CC, Hughes, Andy?
    Lee should ask for 8 and get this over with.
    He would get it.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Boston is essentially the same team as last year.

    - Pedroia and Youkilis need to prove their injuries have healed.
    - Crawford and Gonzalez have to at least equal the production of Beltre and Martinez.
    - The 1 -5 starting pitchers all need close to career years and no health issues.
    - The middle relief is weak.
    - No support from the farm system.
    - Lots of high scoring games to be decided by the bullpen.

  258. Red Lobster December 11th, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    If they miss out on Lee (which will probably cause Andy to retire), there is very little they can do to improve the pitching. There is no stud ace available aside from Greinke.

    Garza would be great, but we all know TB won’t trade him here. We’d just have to fill the rotation out with 1 young guy and an innings eater type.

    Thus, they need to beef up the offense and pen to supplement the weaker starting pitching. First, they should get a guy like Upton to replace Gardner. Next they should get a Marmol to be the SU man and sign Feliciano to be the LOOGY. Perhaps even re-sign Wood as well to create a power bullpen.

    Upton in the middle of the lineup and a loaded pen would be a great Plan B.

  259. mick December 11th, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Maybe Lee is forcing Cash to set a deadline which will make it easier for him to walk away.

  260. JoeMimic December 11th, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    I tweeted Swisher and asked him to call Cliff Lee and ask him to sign with us as his wedding gift to Swisher. Pretty reasonable I think.

  261. bgheadjack December 11th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    This waiting is insufferable! The only people happy with it are the advertisers for this blog, because I must check it 14 times an hour!

  262. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Nobody in the Yankee front office is waiting on Pettitte. They do what they have planned for and if he comes back, they’ll deal with him. He’s never signed a contract before the 2nd week in December in his career except for his initial contract in 1990. It’s never been a surprise that he waits until then. His last contract was signed in January of 2009.

  263. mick December 11th, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    For those who think losing Lee means losing Andy, think of it this way: Andy comes back without Lee for more money than with Lee.

  264. DaSaint007 December 11th, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    The longer this takes, the more confident I am that long term, the Yankees will be fine.
    Andy will probably come back. For half a season if not the entire thing.
    Yanks can make a trade for decent, not ace-quality pitching, and hold on to Montero.
    Yanks can add Martin to provide options behind the plate, and trade Cervelli or send him back to AAA.
    Yanks can strengthen the bullpen, which is still needed.

    No Lee. No problem.
    Stop panicking. Boston added NO pitching. Gonzalez has to learn new pitchers in a new league. Crawford has to learn the Green Monster and learn to play in the cold harsh reality of boston.

    Stop the panic.

  265. SAS December 11th, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    It is my opinion that Lee is taking so long because he has said, he likes the limelight and he is getting it for it seems like forever in the baseball world. However, he has to make a decision soon. I am pretty sure both teams are at a point where they have enough. I want to know by Monday.

    He will stay in the limelight in NY. I can’t speak for Dallas area who love all their sports equally including Hl.S. sports.

  266. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    pat December 11th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
    Been in and out all day so don’t know if this is old news……

    #Dodgers sign LHP Wilkin de la Rosa,

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Thanks for that update, pat. I hadn’t seen it. He showed so much promise with a mid-90s fastball, slider and a knee-buckling change-up. He had started as an outfielder, and he had almost no experience in Charleston and Tampa, then then hurt his arm. A real pity, too.

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