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Another day of waiting?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 12, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Grown tired of the Cliff Lee talk yet?

If it’s any consolation, the feeling of complete unknown seems to be the same in Texas as it is in New York. Yesterday, Nolan Ryan said he expects Lee to take the whole weekend to consider his options.

“In my opinion, they are probably weighing all their options and aren’t able to come to an easy decision,” Ryan told MLB.com. “I don’t know how you would read that.”

It seems no knows how to read that.

The Yankees are generally believed to have offered more money, but let’s face it, Lee is going to make plenty of money no matter where he plays. There doesn’t seem to be a bad option for him. The only question is, which situation does he prefer?

And how much longer before he makes up his mind?

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375 Responses to “Another day of waiting?”

  1. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 9:18 am

    Latest report from Minn, there is damge to the roof and they are calling in experts to evaluate. Briefing at 10AM. The college outdoor stadium will have -10 degree temps tomm night. Who knows right now what will happen.

  2. Central CT Yankee December 12th, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Rumor has it the Giants, for obvious reasons, did not bring outdoor clothing so the out Gopher Stadium would not be an option

  3. Bryan December 12th, 2010 at 9:25 am

    How is this even a consideration for Lee

    Lets think about this for a minute… Sign with a one hit wonder or a consistent winner?

    Hmm must be a hard choice for this blockhead. We all know how it will play out if he goes to Texas. Everyone on their team who WAY overachieved last year will drift back to their normal production and the team will be hindered by Lee’s contract to sign other big time free agents.

    Then in 3-4 years Lee will either demand a trade because the team is so bad or the Rangers will be forced to trade him because they can’t devote so a large piece of their payroll to one guy.

  4. jacksquat December 12th, 2010 at 9:28 am

    I’d bet Lee’s decision comes today or tomorrow, more likely tomorrow.

    Whatever happens, I just hope they don’t trade Montero, unless it’s for an A++ pitcher, like Felix Hernandez (but that’s not happening).

  5. blake December 12th, 2010 at 9:31 am

    Here?s a question for everyone. Let?s say its going to take at least 7/161 to sign Cliff Lee and that Zack Greinke could be aquired without including Montero in the deal. Which would be better?

    Lee would be just money, but would be an extremely long term comittment that cones with significant risk. Greinke comes with risk as well (makeup questions) and would cost prospects but he doesn?t come with the longterm monetary and age related risks and he would likely allow payroll space to improve other areas of the club (bullpen) more aggressively as well.

    Personally I still sign Lee if possible but for the money and years we?re at now?..both options carry significant risk. I wouldn?t trade Montero but IF he could be aquired with other players then Im warming to that idea in the event that Lee chooses Texas.

  6. Doreen December 12th, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Makes sense that the Lees are at least taking the weekend before announcing their decision. The last bit of calm before the media storm that will hit them no matter which team they choose.

  7. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 9:36 am

    Doreen-

    I responded to you in the previous thread.

    :)

  8. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 9:37 am

    Blake-

    No brainer. Lee.

  9. Chase December 12th, 2010 at 9:41 am

    I really can’t see him coming here… he would have already.

  10. Rich in NJ December 12th, 2010 at 9:42 am

    Ditto to what MTU said.

    Now if you can get King Felix for a non-Montero package…

  11. Doreen December 12th, 2010 at 9:43 am

    MTU -

    Saw your response just now.

    Do you have JCPD’s email address? He has mine. I will ask him to send it to you. I hate bother Chad (of course, I have no problem bothering JCPD!) :)

    Oh, I forgot – the second picture – man it could have been an elephant that was struck solid by the hands of God!!

  12. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 9:45 am

    Doreen-

    “Lot’s” elephant ?

    His wife may have been in there too.

    :)

  13. DaSaint007 December 12th, 2010 at 9:46 am

    I still feel that a deadline should be placed, as other decisions have to be made.
    Regardless, Lee probably announces his decision tomorrow – or Christmas Eve.
    Just kidding – I hope.

    While I understand how hard it is to find a quality left-handed pitcher who can be dominant at times, I think its time to move on unless the fear is that he ends up in boston (mystery team?). Maybe that’s why they loaded up on left-handed hitters – no fear that he’ll ever face them. Hmmm. Let’s hope that’s not the case.

    Cashman went into this FA period stating that his priorities are “pitching, pitching, pitching”.

    Thus far he’s only re-signed his own players, Jeter and Mariano, and while important, has not strengthened what he claimed to be his priorities. In fact, one could argue that with the loss of Mosley and Aceves, our pitching – fragile as it already is – is weakened.

    The top OF has signed with our division rival.
    boston has also signed a great hitting and defensive 1B.
    But they’ve lost 2 productive hitters and key position players, so that’s effectively a wash. They’ve added no pitching, so that’s status quo – unless they add Lee.

    Rays have lost half their bullpen and their franchise face in Crawford, so they’ve regressed.

    Baltimore has added a power bat and now has a manager that takes no bull, so they’ll improve.

    Toronto has improved the last couple seasons, and though they’ve lost a key bullpen arm in Downs, will be right there in the race.

    This division has gotten tougher, and Cashman needs to deliver, whether it’s Lee, alernates (plural), and a reworked bullpen that can take over from the 6th inning if necessary.

  14. austinmac December 12th, 2010 at 9:46 am

    Lee is likely better than Greinke, but Greinke was the league’s best pitcher in 2009 so the gap is not that great. Can Greinke handle NY? I don’t know, but it is a risk I would take in a heartbeat. What other realistic(non-Johnson, King Felix)options are there?

  15. JCPD December 12th, 2010 at 9:47 am

    Hey now Doreen……… be nice. :-) I will send it to MTU

  16. pat December 12th, 2010 at 9:48 am

    I’m reading the NYDN story on Swisher’s wedding online and as I page down I see someone left a rebuttal to Lupica’s column (murphydog was that you?) in the comments section of the wedding story because………..Lupica doesn’t allow comments on his columns?

    For a guy who has BIG opinions on what everyone else says and does, it appears he does not want others to comment on what he says and does.

  17. Yogi Mantle December 12th, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Just repeating something I posted earlier. When the CC decision was being made CC knew the figures being offered before Thanksgiving. He signed in December. Lee was only given the contract figures on Thursday.

    While it was talked about for a long time that the Yankees were looking to acquire Lee, Lee has only had the contract bids for a couple of days.

    And the same things that were said about CC not wanting to play in NY or not liking it in NY or his wife and family not wanting to be in NY turned out to be just hot air.

    Keep it in perspective.

  18. 108 stitches December 12th, 2010 at 9:51 am

    No announcement today. Neither of the parties will want to upstage NFL . Tomorrow or Tuesday. This will open the floodgates for free agents such as Beltre, Soriano, and Pavano plus any deals between teams.
    Hard to imagine one player holding up so many transactions but it is what it is.

  19. blake December 12th, 2010 at 9:51 am

    MTU,

    I agree…but how much better depends on the prospects involved in a potential deal for Greinke and what the final cost ends up being for Lee.

    I don’t buy in to all the “can’t pitch in NY” stuff so for me its always been about how much it would cost to acquire him. When you factor in age and the fact that he’s controlled fairly cheaply for the next 2 seasons (and then you can get out of it if you want by letting him walk and taking the draft picks)….then the plot thickens a bit.

    7 years for a 32 year old pitcher at nearly 25 million bucks is a big time risk as well…..and one that you’re stuck with if it doesn’t work out.

    I’m still going all in for Lee but if he does happen to choose Texas then that takes them out of the bidding for Greinke and Toronto has already said they weren’t parting with Drabek and Synder for him…also 13.5 million isn’t a lot of money in the current market but it is a lot for smaller market teams that aren’t in contention so the bidding may be more limited than we think.

    just sayin…..Greinke plus a lock down pen and maybe another bat isn’t a terrible alternative if Lee chooses Cowboyland.

  20. Rich in NJ December 12th, 2010 at 9:52 am

    DaSaint007

    How has waiting on Lee prevented the execution of a Plan B?

    For better or worse, a backup plan could be in the executory stage and be executed at any moment, if necessary.

  21. JCPD December 12th, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Doreen, your wish was my command

  22. ericns1 December 12th, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Not allowing comments on columns shows that for all his skills, and books and accomplishments Mike Lupica is not a professional who can take it as well as dish out.

  23. Stoneburner December 12th, 2010 at 9:54 am

    Stop it – please – unless you are (1) employed by the Yankees, (2) work on Mark Newman’s or Billy Eppler’s staff, and (3) have at least 10 years of scouting experience – please stop – just stop with the wax poetics, generational talk of Jesus Montero.

    If the Yankees deal him this offseason, they will be the most informed about that decision – not blog posters who wax the poetics again and dream of 35 homerun seasons and .320 batting averages and 110 RBIs.

  24. murphydog December 12th, 2010 at 9:54 am

    pat December 12th, 2010 at 9:48 am:

    No. Not me. I’m in the previous thread rebutting that butthead.

    They probably took down Lupica’s email because it was crashing the server with malware.

  25. Ruby Tuesday December 12th, 2010 at 9:55 am

    As I have said all along, Cliffie Lee will sign with the T*x*s R*ng*rs .

  26. Yankee Trader December 12th, 2010 at 9:55 am

    Personally, I would not trade Montero,UNLESS, I’m getting a young impact player in return. The only young starting pitchers, I’d put him in a package for would be lefty Clayton Kershaw, righties Felix Hernandez or Josh Johnson.

    I still hope we get Lee. Greg Maddux was effective until age 38, with pinpoint control and an expanded strike zone.

    Plan B should start with getting Pettitte back for another year.

    Ivan Nova probably hit a brick wall because he was approaching 190 innings.

  27. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Blake-

    Can’t really agree with you on Greinke. He may indeed wind up in NY though.

    I think there are other excellent trade opportunites if we are willing to part with certain pieces.

    :)

  28. Doreen December 12th, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Thanks, JCPD.

    pat -

    That was a nice picture of Swisher and his bride you linked to yesterday. Thanks.

    ****

    I think Joba not developing has really been the problem. Without going into blame, because probably both parties can lay claim to some, if Joba became the starter they hoped for, they wouldn’t be in this position.

    I think it would be okay going in to the season with one of their prospects (Noesi, Nova) as a #5 if they have Lee and Pettitte retired. The division is too tough to chance two rookies in the rotation. I have hesitations about Greinke (about evenly mixed between whether he’d be okay in the big spotlight and was his incredible 2009 something that he can ever come close to again?) and also because of what it might take to land him.

    Whatever happens, happens. We are mere witnesses.

    But there’s no lack of trying here. The Yankees are kind of the victim of bad timing — and the Mariners pulling out of a deal.

  29. Doreen December 12th, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Thanks, JCPD.

    pat -

    That was a nice picture of Swisher and his bride you linked to yesterday. Thanks.

    ****

    I think Joba not developing has really been the problem. Without going into blame, because probably both parties can lay claim to some, if Joba became the starter they hoped for, they wouldn’t be in this position.

    I think it would be okay going in to the season with one of their prospects (Noesi, Nova) as a #5 if they have Lee and Pettitte retired. The division is too tough to chance two rookies in the rotation. I have hesitations about Greinke (about evenly mixed between whether he’d be okay in the big spotlight and was his incredible 2009 something that he can ever come close to again?) and also because of what it might take to land him.

    Whatever happens, happens. We are mere witnesses.

    But there’s no lack of trying here. The Yankees are kind of the victim of bad timing — and the Mariners pulling out of a deal.

  30. joeman December 12th, 2010 at 9:59 am

    # Ruby Tuesday December 12th, 2010 at 9:55 am

    As I have said all along, Cliffie Lee will sign with the T*x*s R*ng*rs .
    ——————————————————————————–
    wait a minute, I never seen you say that, I’ve been saying it since the season ended…don’t start jumping my train…..LOL!!!!!!

  31. pat December 12th, 2010 at 10:01 am

    Enjoy your day.

    I’m venturing out into the elements. Yuck!

  32. GreenBeret7 December 12th, 2010 at 10:01 am

    Again – no one prospect is bigger than the team. If the Yankees management and farm directors believe Montero can help the major league team – the most important part of the organization – he will be dealt. Not sure for what – but for any one to gush over Montero, especially when most have either not seen or just watched him online via milb.com – is being unrealistic – only the Yankees and their evaluators know what they have with Montero. We do not know if Montero will reach his potential offensively at the major league level and make the greatest adjustment of all OR how he will hold up defensively OR

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    So says the blowhard that names himself after a prospect.

  33. Doreen December 12th, 2010 at 10:02 am

    Sorry for the double post. :(

  34. Rich in NJ December 12th, 2010 at 10:02 am

    “If the Yankees deal him this offseason, they will be the most informed about that decision – not blog posters who wax the poetics again and dream of 35 homerun seasons and .320 batting averages and 110 RBIs.”

    Just because you can’t evaluate talent, it doesn’t mean that other people can’t.

    And unlike the Yankees, we can make pure baseball decisions, not ones that are overridden by perceived short-term financial considerations.

  35. joeman December 12th, 2010 at 10:02 am

    Doreen December 12th, 2010 at 9:58 am

    I think Joba not developing has really been the problem. Without going into blame, because probably both parties can lay claim to some, if Joba became the starter they hoped for, they wouldn’t be in this position.

    ——————————————————————————
    for sure

  36. Stoneburner December 12th, 2010 at 10:03 am

    As far Mike Lupica:

    (1) still has not come to grips about his incompetence in writing the “Summer of ’98″ – he is all moralistic about steroids now – but he did not know when writing that book that included McGwire’s and Sosa’s chase for 61 homeruns

    (2) that he does not include a comments section is embarrassing – I e-mail him – not sure if it is the write e-mail address – but one thing I try to ask him is compare Jason Bay’s contract with Brett Gardner’s contract and output – and who would the Mets rather have manning LF – remember Lupica is a notorious supporter of the Mets, he loves eating out with the Wilpons – the Wilpons can do no wrong in his book – essentially though – the Knicks are now more relevant than his beloved Mets – and that will drive him nuts b/c he hates Dolan as an owner and for him to realize and hear that a Dolan run team is now run better and more relevant than a Wilpon run Mets team is embarrassing for him and something he cannot take.

  37. blake December 12th, 2010 at 10:06 am

    “Stop it ? please ? unless you are (1) employed by the Yankees, (2) work on Mark Newman?s or Billy Eppler?s staff, and (3) have at least 10 years of scouting experience ? please stop ? just stop with the wax poetics, generational talk of Jesus Montero”

    you’re entitled to your opinion….but not a lot of people agree with you both on this blog and elsewhere thoughout baseball. He’s got a chance to be special with the bat and if he can stay behind the plate then that value increases exponentially…perhaps thats way folks don’t want to part with him.

  38. mick December 12th, 2010 at 10:06 am

    who cares what lupica says, some of you need to get a life…if you stopped reading him and commenting on it, he would be out of business!

  39. blake December 12th, 2010 at 10:08 am

    “Ditto to what MTU said.

    Now if you can get King Felix for a non-Montero package?”

    Rich,

    Clearly Lee is option A and is for me as well….just saying that if (big if), Greinke could be had without giving up Montero then I think that could make for a very strong 2011 team as well and one that’s more flexible finanically. King Felix isn’t available and probably won’t be for a couple of years…..

  40. mick December 12th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    would you give up any of the 3 B’s?

  41. Stoneburner December 12th, 2010 at 10:11 am

    Montero is but one player – and it is not healthy for fans or Montero to have these expectations put on him – he is a chip – a very good chip – but there will be other Monteros – there have been Monteros in the past – to become too attached – especially to a prospect – is not good for the fan – and the player.

  42. Rich in NJ December 12th, 2010 at 10:12 am

    blake

    As long as KC didn’t make the Yankees pay more in prospects than any other team, I would listen.

  43. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 10:13 am

    Latest update, very unlikely that Monday game at Metrodome. It has always been a 2-4 days turnaround for repairs and reinflation. Outdoor stadium doesn’t seem to be an option
    -25 Wind Chill, teams not properly prepared. They may move the game to Detroit. In the midst of the Lee circuis the Giants are wrapped up in one themselves.

  44. mick December 12th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    there has to be a discount for Greinke…no way deal Montero, Romine yes….which one of the B’s???

  45. Triple Short of a Cycle December 12th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    even though he is yet to make a decision I hate Cliff Lee already

  46. blake December 12th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Mick,

    Depends on what else is in the deal and which one we are talking about…. hard to say.

  47. Fran the original December 12th, 2010 at 10:15 am

    Just catching up on the posts.

    blake,
    I would definitely trade for Grienke if it did not include Montero over Cliff Lee. Younger and cheaper.

    But I also like the idea of King Felix. I would offer Seattle a choice of any players from the major or minor league rosters with the exception of Robbie. I know though, that this would probably never happen.

  48. Triple Short of a Cycle December 12th, 2010 at 10:15 am

    I feel like the Vikings should have to forfeit. Give them a choice to play at Giants stadium ot forfeit

  49. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    GB7 -

    Good morning.

    It’s a new day, same crap, but, please learn to be more direct.

  50. Fran the original December 12th, 2010 at 10:17 am

    In the midst of the Lee circuis the Giants are wrapped up in one themselves.
    **************************
    Gary,

    But at least we know this one will be resolved later today :)

  51. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 10:17 am

    MTU -

    Looks like you’re the new clearing house, can I enter and win?

  52. blake December 12th, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Rich,
    Of course and that is something that could happen if Lee stays with the Rangers….the Yankee tax increases because teams know their needs…..

  53. mick December 12th, 2010 at 10:18 am

    I really don’t know who has the greater value between Banuelos and Betances. Brackman seems like a project. Are either of those 2 untouchables?

  54. Ghost of Steinbrenner December 12th, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Even if it turns out Lee chooses the Yankees, if we find out that the Yanks offered more money and he took this long to decide, did he really want the Rangers all along? As one poster stated “I hate Lee already”

  55. UnKnown December 12th, 2010 at 10:19 am

    Your kidding right Triple Short of the Cycle?

  56. joeman December 12th, 2010 at 10:20 am

    may take 8 years & $$$$

  57. Triple Short of a Cycle December 12th, 2010 at 10:20 am

    UnKnown,

    about what?

  58. theoldCrow December 12th, 2010 at 10:20 am

    I would pull the offer to Lee, he obviously doesn’t want to pitch in NY. Or he’s making it look like he’s having a hard time deciding because of personal relationships he’s secured while in Texas. Also I believe his family does not want to come to NY for any amount of money, doesn’t mean he won’t.

    as for plan B, I’d try to work a deal for Greinke, I’d try to work a deal for Justin Upton, I’d sign Russ Martin if healthy. With Lee hogging all the dough we won’t be able to acquire depth anyway, so a WS appearance would still be in jeopardy. With out Lee we would have plenty of money to work with and again this isn’t King Felix or Lincecum. Come on Yanks snap out of it, let him stay in Texas, let them ruin their payroll budget, they already know how to drive down Rodriguez boulevard, let them suffer that ride again.

  59. coney1 December 12th, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Per MLB Trade Rumors:

    The White Sox will listen to offers for Mark Buehrle, whose contract expires after the 2011 season. Buehrle earned ten and five rights this year, so he’d have the option of vetoing any trade.

    Honestly, I would certainly look to see what the ChiSox want for Buehrle. It certainly wouldn’t be as much as Greinke and Buehrle’s talent is not that far off from Lee’s and he is a year younger and a fierce competitor and WS champion.

  60. Yogi Mantle December 12th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    # Triple Short of a Cycle December 12th, 2010 at 10:15 am

    I feel like the Vikings should have to forfeit. Give them a choice to play at Giants stadium ot forfeit
    ————

    Why? They are willing to play but the venue isn’t. Why not the Giants forfeit? Its about as valid.

    Its not that I am a fan of the Vikings or the Giants.

  61. blake December 12th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Fran,

    I don’t see Felix happening now….the Ms will try to build around him for at least a year or two. However, when Greinkes deal is up after 2012 he very well could be.

  62. joeman December 12th, 2010 at 10:22 am

    # Triple Short of a Cycle December 12th, 2010 at 10:15 am

    I feel like the Vikings should have to forfeit. Give them a choice to play at Giants stadium ot forfeit
    ——————————————–
    no way make them play a day/night game next week

  63. UnKnown December 12th, 2010 at 10:22 am

    Giants did in fact not bring there outdoor gear. They should have to Forfeit.

    Looks like its going to Ford Field right now. The G Men are logging the frequent flyer miles.

  64. mick December 12th, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Say Lee does not come and Andy does. If Andy retires in 2012, we are left with CC, Hughes and AJ. I don’t know how our farm system survives it unless there are some quality FA starters in 2012.

  65. austinmac December 12th, 2010 at 10:23 am

    If the reports of Pettitte’s likely retirement if Lee doesn’t sign on, it will be, unfortunately, a time for a painful trade for a starter. Starting the season with Burnett, Nova, Noesi and/or Phelps in the rotation will most assuredly not make the playoffs. All the brave talk otherwise is unrealistic and whistling in the wind.

    I would like to hear realistic alternatives.

  66. GreenBeret7 December 12th, 2010 at 10:23 am

    NYY will lose greinke in 2 years and he won’t re-sign with NY. That’s going to take a lot of talent and money that will be flushed and all NYY will get is a couple of supplementary picks that won’t he worth the lost talent. It’ll certainly take more than what they’ll get back.

  67. theoldCrow December 12th, 2010 at 10:24 am

    @ blake.. that’s a good point, but if there is a kid on the farm KC or any team looking to dump a quality pitcher is enthralled with it might not be as drastic as it appears. The front office gave it a great shot, that’s all you can ask for, this guy obviously thinks he’s bigger then the team, we don’t need that.

  68. Triple Short of a Cycle December 12th, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Yogi Mantle,

    Why should the Giants forfeit? Its not their stadium. If this game gets moved to anywhere but Giants stadium for Monday night it puts the Giants at a huge disadvantage for next week against Philly. Teams playing on the road on Monday night lose like 80 percent of the time for following week. Plus the Giants can’t play in any outdoor stadium other then the Meadowlands since they have no outdoor gear with them

  69. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    There won’t be a forfiet, they will play somewhere. Going to Detroit probably balances the impact to both teams as they now both have to travel. The question is who fills the stadium and I don’t think the Vikes get the same nome field advantage. I just hope this isn’t turning into a Tuesday/Wednesday thing.

  70. Triple Short of a Cycle December 12th, 2010 at 10:26 am

    UnKnown,

    so the Giants were supposed to bring outdoor gear to a game in a dome? do you pack snow boots when you go on vacation to Florida?

  71. Ghost of Steinbrenner December 12th, 2010 at 10:26 am

    Mike Lupika spends more time writing liberal political columns than on baseball these days. He is fearful of Sarah Palin and has BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) His brain has turned to mush. He’s become irrevelant!

  72. GreenBeret7 December 12th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Stoneburner December 12th, 2010 at 10:11 am
    Montero is but one player – and it is not healthy for fans or Montero to have these expectations put on him – he is a chip – a very good chip – but there will be other Monteros – there have been Monteros in the past – to become too attached – especially to a prospect – is not good for the fan – and the player.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    It’s not healthy to name yourself after something that you think is unhealthy, don’t you think, prospect hugger?

  73. theoldCrow December 12th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    @ GreenBeret7 why would Greinke leave after 2 yr’s? He’s finally on a team with a chance to win.

  74. Fran the original December 12th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    blake,

    I really don’t see Hernandez happening now either. More a pipe dream. Coney1 just posted about Buehrle being available. He would be a good alternative to Cliff Lee.

  75. UnKnown December 12th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Hey the Mega Mall is in Bloomington right by the airport they can stop by after they get off the plane and do a little holiday shopping. Get all geared up with the latest UnderArmour and lets get it on.

  76. blake December 12th, 2010 at 10:28 am

    “NYY will lose greinke in 2 years and he won’t re-sign with NY. That’s going to take a lot of talent and money that will be flushed and all NYY will get is a couple of supplementary picks that won’t he worth the lost talent. It’ll certainly take more than what they’ll get back.”

    GB,

    I think that just all depends on what the cost actually is and what the Yankees do in those 2 years….if they win one WS during that time then it would have probably been worth it.

  77. Joe from Long Island December 12th, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Good morning –

    Like bryan said earlier today, one of the considerations for Lee has to be – at least I think so – what happens if the Rangers truly are one-hit wonders, and regress next season. And their revenues decline. Do they start to unload Young, Hamilton, Kinsler, Cruz? Does Lee find himself in a similar position to Alex Rodriguez a few years ago? How would he feel if, say two years from now, Nolan Ryan starts to feel him out about being dealt? What if the money men start to turn the screws, and demand payment on their loans? Does Lee find himself just like Alex, having to go to court to get his money? When was the last time someone had to go to bankruptcy court against the Yankees in order to get paid?

    If the Yanks can get a quality SP, without giving up Montero, I have to listen. I’m skeptical about Greinke being a fit, but there are others who might well fit.

  78. GreenBeret7 December 12th, 2010 at 10:30 am

    BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 10:16 am
    GB7 -

    Good morning.

    It’s a new day, same crap, but, please learn to be more direct.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Morning, AL. This clown has been repeating the same drivel for the last 2 days,

  79. theoldCrow December 12th, 2010 at 10:30 am

    For his career, Lee is 14-15 with a 3.60 ERA in 39 regular season starts against the Yankees’ AL East rivals– the Toronto Blue Jays, Baltimore Orioles, Tampa Bay Rays and Boston Red Sox. He’s 22-8 with a 2.85 ERA in 37 starts against the Rangers’ Al West rivals– the Los Angeles Angels, Oakland Athletics and Seattle Mariners.

  80. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 10:31 am

    Per MLB Trade Rumors:

    The White Sox will listen to offers for Mark Buehrle.

    ———————————–

    I’d look into that right now, regardless of what happens with Lee.

    Let it be known the Yankees have contacted the White Sox about Buehrle, then see how fast Lee makes up his mind. Also start the rumor, Yankees are all in on Greinke.

    Hello Hal, This is Cliff, when do I sign.

    Spend the money on Buehrle & Greinke, and tell Cliff, sorry we got tired of waiting, enjoy Texas in the summer.

    If fact, that would make a better SP staff anyway.

  81. mick December 12th, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Buehrle is a crafty vet who would fit in well at the Stadium.
    Jamie Moyer should be available in 2012, after Tommy John surgery, at age 50.

  82. blake December 12th, 2010 at 10:33 am

    there always the chance also that Greinke does well in NY and they work out an extension with him. I’m playing Devil’s advocate here to some degree as I still think signing Lee is the preferable way to go…..but Greinke is a very good pitcher and if Pettite came back then they would still be tough and more flexible financially.

  83. West Coast Yankee Fan December 12th, 2010 at 10:33 am

    One really unfortunate aspect of Lee not coming to New York, if true, is that Cashman will probably be forced by necessity to trade away many blue-chip prospects to go after quality pitching. Something not necessary to get Cliff Lee.

  84. GreenBeret7 December 12th, 2010 at 10:34 am

    theoldCrow December 12th, 2010 at 10:27 am
    @ GreenBeret7 why would Greinke leave after 2 yr’s? He’s finally on a team with a chance to win.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    he’s a high risk and he has no desire to pitch in NY. He has more desire to get out of KC.

  85. blake December 12th, 2010 at 10:34 am

    I think Buehrle is a better replacement for Pettite than Lee.

  86. Yogi Mantle December 12th, 2010 at 10:36 am

    If the Giants don’t have outdoor gear then that’s on them, no? They didn’t come prepared for unplanned events.

    The talk about the Viking forfeiting is about as valid as the Giants forfeiting. You give no reason other than you wanting the Giants to get a cheap win. It doesn’t work that way. So what if moving the game later means a disadvantage to the Giants? How is that on the Vikings that should force them to forfeit?

    I don’t care what the record for the Vikings is, or the Giants, there is no reason to forfeit a game due to the venue having a problem due to weather. Crap happens.

  87. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 10:37 am

    If the Yankees were to sign greinke, they are not going to lose him in 2 years, because if he didn’t want to come to NY, he could block the trade.

    Playing for a winner makes players happy to be in NY.

  88. GreenBeret7 December 12th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    Mark buehrle is thinking retirement.

    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports......fter-2011/

    Where’s the gain after 1 year?

  89. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    How about Buehrle and/or Danks?

  90. joeman December 12th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    if Lee wasn’t married his signature would have been on that contract last week…….

  91. Triple Short of a Cycle December 12th, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Yogi Mantle,

    So since you don’t care about any disadvantage for the Giants then you wouldn’t have a problem if they are forced to play Wed or Thursday right?

    Just a question what team do you root for?

  92. Triple Short of a Cycle December 12th, 2010 at 10:41 am

    Yogi Mantle,

    As far as getting a cheap win the Giants are a far superior team then the Gimpy Favre vikings. They could beat them if they played on the moon

  93. joeman December 12th, 2010 at 10:43 am

    tough for the WS to trade a 25 year old SP who’s making $ 3.5 mil

  94. LGY December 12th, 2010 at 10:46 am

    How about we just let this thing play out before we start turning on Lee, his wife, and Cashman? Just wait before we start panicking about plan B?

    The Yankees are not going to play games with Lee. They are very committed to wanting him on this team and setting deadlines or floating bogus trade rumors to pressure the guy to announce his decision is just an emotional play with basically zero upside.

    If you want to go nuts after Lee announces his decision, go for it. Lee lost nothing by taking the weekend to decide. There was no benefit for him to just immediately jump on any offer.

    It has only been a few days. Just let it play out guys and gals.

  95. mick December 12th, 2010 at 10:51 am

    That put an end to the noise…

  96. Yogi Mantle December 12th, 2010 at 10:51 am

    Triple, I don’t root for any team in football. Never have. I enjoy watching different players, including Eli Manning and Favre. I also root against certain players or coaches.

    I would expect that the Giants would win this game, but as in all sports what things look like on paper don’t always play that way on the field.

    Why should any team be handed a win because a venue failed from weather?

    How would you look at forfeiting the game if it were the Giant’s stadium that failed and first place in the division were at stake? Your view only takes in this one game, but it would set precedent which could negatively impact a team’s season, including YOUR team, at some point in time. What if a forfeit in this instance were to be the deciding game that meant making the playoffs or not? What if that game were to impact the Giants not making it to the playoffs from being forced to forfeit a game?

    You need to take out the fan in you in something like this.

  97. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 10:57 am

    It’s not healthy to name yourself after something that you think is unhealthy, don’t you think, prospect hugger?

    THERE is something disturbingly bipolar about it, isn’t there ;)

  98. JM December 12th, 2010 at 10:58 am

    Buerhrle is certainly an intriguing possibility if the Pale Hose are really serious about trading him.

  99. YankeeRay December 12th, 2010 at 11:01 am

    People say pull the offer because he’s not committed. Who knows what he is thinking. In fact the idea of him waiting so long could show that he is much more than about the money. This could be a family issue about his son with his remission. Moving your family may not be an easy decision and we all assume he can just pick up and leave. Maybe he will relocate like CC and that is what he is pondering.

    The bigger question for me is why isn’t anyone talking about Nolan Ryans new plan of throwing out the pitch count stat. Shouldn’t he be worried about getting thrown out there for 7 years and pitching til his arm falls off?
    As opposed to being babied here by Joe G and letting the pen preserve his longevity.

    If he signs here in the next 2-3 days I am fine.

  100. randy l. December 12th, 2010 at 11:02 am

    “Grown tired of the Cliff Lee talk yet?”

    i said it all year that for some reason i did not like cliff lee as a person. there was always something annoying about him. i have said often i see him as an opponent rather than as a yankee.

    how the yankees got to this point of weakness where they are on hold because of one player is open to debate, but this negotiation where cliff lee holds all the cards shows that the yankees need to double their minor league dollars and commitment so they are not in this position again.

    without the yankees getting lee, what other team is going to beat out the yankees for the wildcard ?

    tampa bay- i don’t think so.
    blue jays- nope
    white sox- don’t see it
    angels- not this year

    the yankees as they are are a very high probability for the playoffs simply because there is no other wild card team that is really strong.the whole league is diluted.

    the yankees could say screw lee and use the 25 million this year to figure something out by the playoffs where they went in with 3 really good starters.

    one way to totally screw texas and get them out of the playoff picture for the next 5 years is to let them have lee.

    what’s the downside of passing on lee when he’s shown he’s not really sure he wants to be a yankee?

    cashman is the best gm in the game according to most on this blog.

    surely this year with 25 million saved with not signing lee, cashman could whip something together by the trading deadline to make the yankees a scary team for the playoffs.

    i would recommend that he get a 40% throwing out runners catcher though.

    and under no conditions even think of trading montero. he’s the one variable that the yankees main competition does not have.

    play the montero card.

    see if there’s yankee destiny in that bat.

  101. joeman December 12th, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Agreed to terms with 1B Paul Konerko on a three-year contract.
    Agreed to terms with 1B Adam Dunn on a four-year contract and with C A.J. Pierzynski on a two-year contract

    —————————————————————-
    don’t think they are going to trade any SP

  102. blake December 12th, 2010 at 11:04 am

    LGY,

    What you’re suggesting is no fun :(

  103. Ghost of Steinbrenner December 12th, 2010 at 11:05 am

    Listen! Before the process started Lee and his wife came to the conclusion that “yeah we can live in NY” or they wouldn’t have even entertained offers from the Yanks. If not then they used them for leverage with Texas which apparently they have gotten. SOOO! My question is WTF is taking him so long!

  104. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 11:06 am

    The bigger question for me is why isn’t anyone talking about Nolan Ryans new plan of throwing out the pitch count stat. Shouldn’t he be worried about getting thrown out there for 7 years and pitching til his arm falls off?

    A GUY of lee’s stature will call his own shots here.if you recall manuel spoke hopefully of lee pitching on 3 days rest in 2009 series and when asked about it lee was less than enthusiastic. he had no intention of pitching on 3 days rest and was calling the shots on that and i’m sure they’d let him react off his body in texas.

  105. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 11:06 am

    Everyone always said about cliff that he was all about the money and that’s why he wanted to be a free agent and the phillies traded him. Now its his time to get paid and he is milking it for as much as possible. This shouldn’t be surprising as every minute he waits both teams get more and more impatient and financially loose.

  106. Ghost of Steinbrenner December 12th, 2010 at 11:08 am

    randy l. I’m with you. Good post!

  107. West Coast Yankee Fan December 12th, 2010 at 11:09 am

    IMO, it’s very normal for decisions on large value contracts to take time and Braunecker only received offers on Thursday. The attorneys, tax accountants and estate planners have to pore over the details and often ask for clarification on certain points. Then the proposals have to be translated into terms that the Lee’s will understand easily. It’s not as simple as just looking at the number of years for number of dollars, although that’s the foundation. There is a lot of complexity inherent in a $150 million dollar deal, from the often talked about difference in state income tax, to the terms, when the monies would be paid, etc.

  108. Fran the original December 12th, 2010 at 11:09 am

    randy l. I’m with you. Good post!
    ************************
    randy,

    I second that. Well said.

  109. GreenBeret7 December 12th, 2010 at 11:10 am

    Randy, I’m all for bringing in someone like Freddy Garcia or that type or even going for a Nolesco and filling the last spot wiyth Pettitte or a rookie and then beefing up the pen with Rauch and Brackman and another lefty like Feliciano, then add a bat. Whether it’s Thome, Matsui or Damon makes no difference to me, as long as they realize that it isn’t a full time DH spot.

  110. JM December 12th, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Fran the original December 12th, 2010 at 11:09 am
    randy l. I’m with you. Good post!
    ************************
    randy,

    I second that. Well said.

    _______________________

    I agree as well. And I really, really, don’t want to trade Montero. Perhaps he will flop in the show, but the Yankees have not had this exciting a slugging prospect in years. I am looking forward to watching him this summer.

  111. clownthrowindown December 12th, 2010 at 11:12 am

    Don’t know what’s more amazing…that a $200M team is so desperate for one FA to give them a WS shot or that, in light of that, people still think Cashman is a good GM.

  112. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Clown – who is your favorite team?

  113. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 11:18 am

    how the yankees got to this point of weakness where they are on hold because of one player is open to debate, but this negotiation where cliff lee holds all the cards shows that the yankees need to double their minor league dollars and commitment so they are not in this position again

    IT”S TOO BAD the two young guys in trenton are still about a year away at least.if they’re readiness had coincided with the present this would not be such a crisis.the failure to develop Joba Chamberlain is at the heart of the current conundrum. it’s not cashman’s fault that AJ blew up last year or that Andy Pettitte hurt the groin and may elect to stay home. it WAS his call to have scuttled JC’s future as a yank starter so abruptly and have nothing in place as contingency for these types of unplanned events like the AJ and Pettitte problems.his solution was offering montero for a rental of a 32 yr old pitcher.that’s not dealing from a position of strength.

  114. Ghost of Steinbrenner December 12th, 2010 at 11:21 am

    clownthrowindown December 12th, 2010 at 11:12 am
    .
    Don’t know what’s more amazing…that a $200M team is so desperate for one FA to give them a WS shot or that, in light of that, people still think Cashman is a good GM

    ++++++

    clown I think your lips and hair are of the color of your favorite team.

  115. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 11:25 am

    cashman is the best gm in the game according to most on this blog.

    THE rushing in to defend him from certain repeat posters at the slightest sign of criticism of the gm is actually suspicious.planting people on blogs to push ur cause is nothing new tho.i can think of 2 or 3 here who i’m convinced aren’t here just to toss the baseball around.

  116. Doreen December 12th, 2010 at 11:27 am

    randy l -

    I agree that the Yankees should commit more dollars to S&D as well as whatever else it takes to amp up the minor league side of things. Even if they are putting in a ton of dollars now, it really can’t hurt them to amp it up a bit. I have always agreed with you on this point – it’s one you’ve made over the past few seasons.

    I do think Cashman is a good GM. Don’t know enough about other teams and their GMs to say whether or not he is the best. Probably he is not. But I think he’s up there. If only because of the high profile nature of his particular job as GM of the NY Yankees. Sure, he’s got a lot of money to spend, but there are some areas where he’s handcuffed a bit (draft?). One thing I am noticing lately is he seems to have gotten hardened somewhat (Jeter negotiatons? though in general I had no major complaints about his actions there, but some did) and I wonder if it gets wearying – having all that money invites all that “using” of the Yankees, requiring more from them in trades, etc. Enough can certainly be enough.

    Sure wish Lee didn’t become the “must have” he has. Two factors, I think: as I said before, Joba; and AJ having such a crummy year last season. And Andy being a lot more fragile even if he does return.

  117. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 11:27 am

    Alfred – who are these people you speak of? I’m around a lot but don’t pay much attention to who says what over time so I am interested to hear who you believe has higher level agendas

  118. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 11:29 am

    nd under no conditions even think of trading montero. he’s the one variable that the yankees main competition does not have.

    THE problem is the gm already traded him for a rental.that doesn’t inspire confidence in me.in fact, i would say i want lee signed PRIMARILY to keep the itchy fingers of cashman quiet on the montero front.the stuff about him being a great yankee going forward is OBVIOUS to anyone who bothered to take the time to see him play.the nutty guy on here who says noone seen him except for video is so silly. if you live in the area its not hard to get to these MiL games. not sure what that guy’s problem is. i seen montero about 10 times myself.

  119. LGY December 12th, 2010 at 11:29 am

    I am actually Jean Afterman.

    True story.

  120. mick December 12th, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Something about Lee smacks of ghosts of Cashman Past. Dare I say Kevin Brown or Randy Johnson.
    If he is waiting this long because he isn’t sure if everything will be perfect for him and his family, then perhaps, NY is not for him. That usually is a factor for most pitchers that come here, esp in their 1st year.
    If he doesn’t have the flexible personality of buddy CC, that easygoing nature, where nothing bothers him then, more power to him, drive that price up as much as you can, and stay where you are.

  121. Doreen December 12th, 2010 at 11:30 am

    And I want to be on the record for wanting to keep Montero. It may have been worth trading him for a Halladay or a Lee. Maybe a Felix Hernandez. That’s about it.

  122. Stoneburner December 12th, 2010 at 11:31 am

    J. Alfred -

    Just like the name – nothing bipolar – just telling it like I see it – Graham is a good guy – do not know him real well – if he is traded – he is traded – sometimes you just like the name.

    And it is unhealthy – it is very unhealthy to become too attached to one prospect, one player in . . . wait for it J. Alfred – just wait for – wait for it some more – A TEAM SPORT.

    NEVER put your cards in one player – NEVER – or you go the way of the 1998 Orioles – with your Albert Belles and Cal Ripkens

  123. ac1 December 12th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    how the yankees got to this point of weakness where they are on hold because of one player is open to debate, but this negotiation where cliff lee holds all the cards shows that the yankees need to double their minor league dollars and commitment so they are not in this position again

    ___

    this is what happens when you are expected to WIN every year. There are no real development years and the yankees have to committ their funds to the superstars to win world series.

    sure we can develop too, but there isnt the patience to let it happen in the minors.

  124. LGY December 12th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    blake,

    :lol:

    I am saving all my Lee family hate for if he chooses the Rangers. Already have a nice rant written and ready to go for Lee’s wife’s cousin’s grandma.

  125. Stoneburner December 12th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    And J. Alfred – look up what bipolar means – I think you meant schizophrenic – bad job J. Alfred with a misdiagnosis – bad job. Bipolar would be my mood changing – schizophrenic would mean me taking inconsistent positions – kind of like you allude – saying do not get too attached to prospects but then having a screen name of a prospect – which I have already stated – just like the name dude – just like the name. Again – bad job J. Alfred.

  126. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 11:34 am

    Who gets spotted first, Cliff Lee or Santa.

  127. Joe from Long Island December 12th, 2010 at 11:35 am

    randy I brings up a good point.

    Not getting Cliff Lee is not the end of the world for the Yankees. It just means that they would have to go in another direction. The money they have allocated for Lee can be well spent in other directions – acquiring a lesser name pitcher, who might very well perform very well for the Yanks. Getting a good defensive catcher – Russell Martin or someone else – to share time with Montero as he continues to develop, and putting more resources into scouting and development/minor league instruction, to try to avoid this sort or situation with one particular player, should be the order of the day.

    Heck, doing the catcher thing, and greater investment into development, should be the order of the day regardless. No matter how one feels about how the Yankees do their business, you should always strive to do better.

  128. West Coast Yankee Fan December 12th, 2010 at 11:37 am

    I don’t think that Cashman is the best GM in the major leagues, nor do I think he is the worst. But he is surely responsible for where we are right now. There is a lot of good in that assessment, we won the World Series in 2009 and made the playoffs in 2010 and if you are going to blame him, you have to be fair and give him credit as well.

    Cashman was the first to admit he did not have a good off-season in 2009-2010. It’s no secret that Vazquez, Johnson and Winn were not good deals.

    He also has to take responsibility for what we are going through right now with Cliff Lee. He’s the captain of the baseball ship and New York is not known for it’s patience, understanding and excuses. With our tradition of winning and striving for excellence we shouldn’t be.

    The reality is it’s relatively early, but to date, we have done nothing to substantively improve this team. We have signed players who were on our roster last year. We have had to wait, hat in hand, and let others make decisions as to our future for us. Namely Cliff Lee and Andy Pettitte. And as the Red Sox aggressively improve we seem handcuffed in our ability to do anything else as we wait.

    We should not be in this position. We should have been better prepared. As good as some of our prospects are supposed to be, they are not ready to help for the most part; with the exception of Montero and maybe Brackman and we all know the dangerous game of predicting success for minor league stars.

  129. oak2455 December 12th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    if the Yanks are so desperate for Lee why not go down there and make another pitch and Bring some people….Cash get on a plane and show how much you want Lee…I think the Rangers were there three times already

  130. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 11:27 am
    Alfred – who are these people you speak of? I’m around a lot but don’t pay much attention to who says what over time so I am interested to hear who you believe has higher level agendas

    HEY NOW i’m not going down that road just open ur ears and eyes and they will tell you who’s who and what’s what

  131. mick December 12th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    Cashman goes after the obvious. He has done it before . He gets enfatuated with the big pitcher that will be the panacea. It never seems to work. CC has been an exception but he is an exceptional human being with the right temperment for NY. Even Clemens struggled here for a while. Lee is the no brainer for sure, but we still have enough to make it to the playoffs, the thought is Lee puts us over the top.

  132. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 11:41 am

    Oak – because going down there is what Lee is waiting for….go down with another bag of cash plays right into his hands. We did what we had to, we offered the most dough and the most years…..when he is done being a brett favrian dramaqueen, we will be happy to have a 2nd no nonsense ace in the rotation.

  133. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Shoot – I just remembered that I missed the 530 central time press conference yesterday as announced by jhahn24 on twitter. Anyone have the deails?

  134. Crawdaddy December 12th, 2010 at 11:45 am

    “HEY NOW i’m not going down that road just open ur ears and eyes and they will tell you who’s who and what’s what”

    Coward!

  135. dc in el cerrito December 12th, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Trade for Gavin Floyd if Lee passes.

  136. oak2455 December 12th, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Carlo – I agree but the Rangers seem to be showing they want him more……big difference

  137. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Oak – you know what shows “want” more than anything? $$$,$$$,$$$

  138. LGY December 12th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Elite players like Cliff Lee dictate the free agent market. They dictate the pace of the negotiations and they don’t fall for pressure tactics because the money is always like for the cream of the crop on the free agent market.

    The idea that the Yankees are in some desperate waiting mode as a result of their situation does not accurately describe the situation.

    The Yankees are waiting on Cliff Lee, because they want Cliff Lee. It is as simple as that.

    When the Yankees identify a player like Cliff that they want, they zone in on their target and that is it.

    This has nothing to do with being at the mercy of Cliff or having holes in the rotation.

    Regardless of the spot the Yankees were in they wouldn’t be handling this negotiation any different. They wouldn’t be pressuring him into making a decision. They wouldn’t be saying screw it, let’s go for an alternative option. They wait, hat in hand, like always.

    This is just the reality of the situation when it comes to the free agent market. And this is just the reality of the situation when it comes to elite players like Cliff Lee.

    Just because some fans are getting impatient with the situation, doesn’t change a thing. The offseason is not about how fast you move or how quickly you improve.

    Who have the Yankees lost out on that they actually wanted? No one.

    The only thing that matters is who takes the field on Opening Day, despite cries by some Yankee fans and the media that the Red Sox have won the offseason on December 12th.

  139. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2010 at 11:50 am

    Speaking of a brett favrian drama queen, what if they played a game and nobody showed to watch it? Both Detroit and Indianapolis have offered their fields. It will be interesting to see what kind of crowd shows up if the Giants game is played at either locale.

  140. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 11:51 am

    LGY – Boom! Spot on my man.

  141. clownthrowindown December 12th, 2010 at 11:51 am

    From Keith Olbermann…

    What I am hearing is not very specific and not very highly-sourced, but it is consistent: I get the impression that the Yankees are not optimistic that they are going to sign him.

    Even before Lee went into his self-imposed exile of no fixed length, the answers the Yankees were getting from him directly and indirectly, in Arkansas and merely from it, were not encouraging. Lee just isn’t a New York guy. This is not said insultingly, and is in fact part of the reason the vibe seems so strong: He just doesn’t seem capable of giving the generic incomplete truths required of a guy trying to leverage a team he doesn’t really want to play for.

    http://keitholbermann.mlblogs......cliff.html

  142. theoldCrow December 12th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    @ GreenBeret7… that’s what the media said, Greinke begs to differ, he said no problem pitching in NY. He says he likes New York. Especially because they’re winners. He wants to go to a team that wins.

  143. Crawdaddy December 12th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    They’re playing in Detroit and I might go to that game.

  144. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Wow Craw, cool. I think it would be pretty neat to go and watch a game between two teams that have nothing to do with your locale but are nevertheless teams worth watching!

  145. West Coast Yankee Fan December 12th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Well articulated Keith.

  146. joeman December 12th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    # joeman December 12th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    if Lee wasn’t married his signature would have been on that contract last week…….

  147. Ghost of Steinbrenner December 12th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Has Lee gotten out of church yet? And Bozo please don’t mention Keith Olbermann again. Both of you are Red Sox fans and you make me want to puke!

  148. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Trisha – my guess is the tickets will basically be free so I would guess they get a crowd of some sort……probably a texas high school football esque attendance

  149. Erin December 12th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 11:34 am

    Who gets spotted first, Cliff Lee or Santa.

    *************************************
    Santa. I spotted Santa last night! I was driving home and a guy in a Santa suit was walking down the middle of the road. It was really cool. :)

  150. BBFan December 12th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    The impatinece here is fully understandble. I also think that Lee and his agent are acting like jerks by holidng up most of baseball winter activity to get thier two days in the limelight. This whole talk about they need lot of time to understand the finanical implications of the offers is just a bunch of BS. But…..

    Does it really make any difference to Yanks if Lee takes another couple of days to make his decision? If Lee says “Yes”, if is fine though I do beleive 7 year deal is bad. The guy had health issues twice last year and was on DL once for a long time. Personally I like him to say NO so that Yanks will be saved from thier mistake.

    If he says no, Yanks will move on with whatever backup plans they have.

    I have one trade suggestion.
    Oakland has not been successful in attracting any offensive players this winter.
    They love Swisher they have extra starting pitching. What about trading Siwhser and some prospect(s) for Bret Anderson (lefty). I think it is one of Cashman’s backup plan though the pitcher may be different from Anderson.
    Obviouly that creates a hole in the outfield, but filling an OF spot is easier than starting pitching though with some diminished production compared to Swisher.

  151. Erin December 12th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    People article on Swisher’s wedding. Really great picture of them. I love Joanna’s dress:

    http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20448999,00.html

  152. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    LGY December 12th, 2010 at 11:29 am
    I am actually Jean Afterman.

    True story.

    lol. also very interesting you raised your hand.

  153. West Coast Yankee Fan December 12th, 2010 at 11:57 am

    “This whole talk about they need lot of time to understand the finanical implications of the offers is just a bunch of BS”.

    *********************

    With all due respect, no it isn’t.

  154. theoldCrow December 12th, 2010 at 11:57 am

    What is there to look at when a team offers you the most money? Isn’t that what he said he was after in the first place? He knew NY was gonna offer the best deal since July 31st, that’s plenty of time to sort out your problems, plus he has a bro on the team to bounce off of. Any Stadium could have a group of fans that act unruly, wait until Kristen goes to Texas if her husband does decide to pitch in NY.

  155. SAS December 12th, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Good morning or good noon,

    Any way, I go after Buerhle and worry about next year when some of these young pitchers have another year under their belts. I may be wrong, but I am not a fan of a guy who is afraid to pitch on the big stage so I’d stay away from him.

    I have never been convinced about Montero…as of now…but then again I have never seen the guy catch or hit so maybe I am unfair. It is hard to count on a prospect who has never had a day in the majors.

    I, of course, want Andy back for this tear,

  156. Crawdaddy December 12th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    Trisha,

    I’m from the NYC Metro area and I’ve been a Giant fan since their days at the old Yankee Stadium.

  157. Fran the original December 12th, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Erin,

    Saw the picture last night. Pat posted the link. I loved the wedding gown.

  158. Erin December 12th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Fran-I should have known pat would beat me to it. ;)

    Isn’t that dress great?

  159. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Crawdaddy December 12th, 2010 at 11:45 am
    “HEY NOW i’m not going down that road just open ur ears and eyes and they will tell you who’s who and what’s what”

    Coward!

    COWARDICE?lol. as if there are consequences. actually i’m not interested in accusing someone of something I suspect. can you get your head around that concept? if not, that’s fine too.

  160. West Coast Yankee Fan December 12th, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    I’m surprised Swisher didn’t have his cap on backwards.

  161. Fran the original December 12th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Erin,

    Must have cost a fortune. But I am sure that money was no object :)

  162. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Carlo, the dynamic is going to be a little crazy, no? It takes the crowd right out of the picture. It’s going to be interesting to watch. I think the psychology of the whole thing becomes very interesting. What exactly is the psyche of the teams? Is Minny as hyped as it would have been at home? Does this give more of a head of steam to the Giants, not that they needed it of course. (No answers, just questions thrown out there.) The esoteric stuff always fascinates me.

  163. Crawdaddy December 12th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    “COWARDICE?lol. as if there are consequences. actually i’m not interested in accusing someone of something I suspect. can you get your head around that concept? if not, that’s fine too.”

    You’re the one that brought it up in the first place and now you want to copout by saying you’re not interested in accusing others. Sounds like being a coward to me.

  164. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    Craw, even better for you. That’s awesome. I think it will be a real treat for people in Michigan who can make it to the game.

  165. West Coast Yankee Fan December 12th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    Interesting article from Buster Olney this morning on the Rays, Orioles and Toronto annd winning in the AL East. (ESPN Insider)

    Also, this.

    “The Yankees think it’s far from a slam dunk that they’ll sign Cliff Lee. One of their executives told a general manager from another team that he figures their chances stand at 50-50 — and if they lose out, they’ll probably pursue bullpen and bench help. The odds are that they won’t pursue Greinke because of concern about how he would adapt to the New York market”.

  166. Stoneburner December 12th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    MLB union is one of the most exclusive millionaire’s clubs in the world – do not discount the obligation the players have to a union that has paved the way for the players to be in the position they are in when it comes to free agency.

  167. oak2455 December 12th, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    why is this a Giants thread //// Swisher wedding thread?? any baseball news ?

  168. DaSaint007 December 12th, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    If I were Cashman – and yes, many of you are glad I’m not – I’d state that I’m withdrawing or reducing my offer to 6 years $120M. Take it or leave it.

    If he leaves it, so be it. This organization, winning tradition and all, has to think long term. A rotation of CC, Hughes, AJ, and Pettitte is nothing to sneeze at. AJ will bounce back for at least 5 additional wins. And if Andy retires, so be it, find a #4 starter somewhere who can eat innings and keep the game within reach.

    It’s sad that we don’t think an offense built around Jeter, Granderson, Swisher, Tex, ARod, Posada, Gardner and whoever’s catching can’t deliver 5+ runs a game for any pitcher. I mean really? I don’t care if the starter and bullpen give up 4 runs, we still should be able to top that consistently.

    To think that we need a 7 year, $160+M savior otherwise we won’t make it to the WS is absurd. By adding a couple reliable pieces, particulary the bullpen and bench, we can still be the team that we’re supposed to be.

    Let Lee stay in Texas.

  169. BBFan December 12th, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    This is my read on the Andy Pettitte situation.
    It is different from Majority opinion here.

    Andy and Yanks have an understanding.
    Andy will retire if Lee is signed.
    He will come back for one year to help the team if Lee is not signed. To show their gratutude, Yanks will give him $15 mil contract.

  170. Fran the original December 12th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Just saw the video of the roof collapsing on the Metrodome. Pretty amazing how it came down.

    ******************************
    Trisha,

    The media here is speculating that this will help the Giants. Minnesota looses a home game and the Giants have a chance to bond.

  171. 86w183 December 12th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    I hope Chad and Sam revisit that thread we had a few weeks back where we predicted the outcome of the Cliff Lee negotiations.

    I’m feeling pretty confident about my pick back then — Lee to Texas and December 13th.

    As for Grienke, I’ve been doing my best to educate some of you that a social anxiety disorder has NOTHING in common with pitching in a big market or in front of a big crowd. It’s much more about face-to-dace confrontations in public settings. It is manageable through therapy, recognition and avoidance techniques and some medication.

    If Lee goes elsewhere the Yanks should target Grienke, King Felix… any A-List arm that might be more expensive than makes sense for his current team. Seattle desperately needs to tear it down and rebuild, though I don’t know if they will.

  172. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    oak, how long have you been around these parts? This is a “whatever people choose it to be” thread, especially in the off season!

  173. ac1 December 12th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Ken_Rosenthal #Marlins, still looking for bullpen help, working to sign free-agent LHP Randy Choate. #Rays #MLB

    ___

    I am not one to complain about putting everything into Cliff Lee, however, it seems so quiet on the Yankee front. We need 1 or 2 more lefties in the pen with the Sox lefty lineup, etc, but nada. Downs to Anaheim, Marlins looking at Choate…. Just waiting on Feliciano to go too….

    Really hoping that they are sitting back and waiting for Lee, especially because of the chances that he will stay in Texas.

    Time to go get the lefties in the pen and a bench.

  174. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Nick in SF,

    I just sent you an email.

    Congrats again on the $25 bet.

  175. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Fran, I think it would definitely favor the Giants. No home crowd noise to tune out. Hmmm. This may change my thinking in terms of who I play since I have members of both teams.

  176. ac1 December 12th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    ”’ hoping they ARENT sitting back.”’

  177. Crawdaddy December 12th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    The Mariners aren’t trading King Felix so get real.

  178. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Trisha – while every game for the gmen is important now, I am somewhat upset that this shift in schedule will leave us with a short week to prepare for philly next weekend. That’s the damaging part of all of this.

  179. 108 stitches December 12th, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    Giants / Vikings may be played in Detroit. Advantage: Giants.
    The Detroit fans going to the game certainly will want the G-Men to win with the Vikes being in the same division as the Lions …… NFC Central.
    Not many Minnesota fans will make the trek to Detroit. Need to shovel snow instead.

  180. Fran the original December 12th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Trisha,

    Extra day for the players coming back from injuries to heal. You may want to make some changes.

  181. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    86w183 December 12th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
    I hope Chad and Sam revisit that thread we had a few weeks back where we predicted the outcome of the Cliff Lee negotiations.

    I’m feeling pretty confident about my pick back then — Lee to Texas and December 13th.

    As for Grienke, I’ve been doing my best to educate some of you that a social anxiety disorder has NOTHING in common with pitching in a big market or in front of a big crowd. It’s much more about face-to-dace confrontations in public settings. It is manageable through therapy, recognition and avoidance techniques and some medication.

    If Lee goes elsewhere the Yanks should target Grienke, King Felix… any A-List arm that might be more expensive than makes sense for his current team. Seattle desperately needs to tear it down and rebuild, though I don’t know if they will.

    ********

    Nice post.

    Blake,

    I’d actually prefer Greinke + the added financial flexibility he would give over Cliff Lee. We can probably have him for 18 million a year which frees up 7 million over Cliff Lee’s cost. Plus if we lock him up on a multiyear deal we’ll get prime years instead of twilight years. Lee, Sabathia, AJ, Jeter and Arod all getting old at the same time could be a disaster. I think it’s smart to stagger the ages of the starters. We could eventually see a nice progression in age in the form of Banuelos, Hughes, Greinke, Sabathia, AJ.

  182. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    You’re the one that brought it up in the first place and now you want to copout by saying you’re not interested in accusing others. Sounds like being a coward to me.

    I brought it up because I believe it to be true. i’m not interested in tribal confrontations some of you seem to live for on here. it’s a sense I get from some of these posts, entirely different than including a name and having a pointless spat about it. like I said, if that’s hard for you to grasp, that is ur affair.

  183. Crawdaddy December 12th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Lions fans hate the Vikings, Bears and Packers with a passion.

  184. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Yeow you’re right Carlo. This isn’t the week you want this to happen. I’m anxious to see just how Steve Smith is going to fit back in also. I wouldn’t want to think about how my torn pecs would feel with those hulks caving in on me. I’m wondering if he should be playing at all.

  185. blake December 12th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    I think if you choose not to pursue Greinke in the event that Lee stays in texas because of the price tag then fine……but the risk otherwise is no bigger than giving Lee a 7 year contract IMO. What if he turns out to be great….nobody knows how he’d handle things anymore than they know how cliff Lee would be doing as 38 year old making 25 million bucks.

  186. Crawdaddy December 12th, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    “I brought it up because I believe it to be true. i’m not interested in tribal confrontations some of you seem to live for on here. it’s a sense I get from some of these posts, entirely different than including a name and having a pointless spat about it. like I said, if that’s hard for you to grasp, that is ur affair.”

    Copout or coward, you’re pick.

  187. Crawdaddy December 12th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Blake,

    The difference is that Greinke could blow up in your face in 2011 while Lee’s possible explosion is 2015 and beyond.

  188. clownthrowindown December 12th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Maybe if the Wall Street Journal says it, you will believe it. Just like CNBC said yesterday, there is an effective 8-9% tax advantage to playing for Texas. Note for those who only read about sports: WSJ and CNBC are financial authorities (as opposed to bloggers).

    http://online.wsj.com/article/.....TopStories

  189. PittsburghYankeeFan December 12th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Now we know why 99.9% of people on this blog could never be a GM. Cliff Lee and Braunecker are waiting for someone to blink. Texas already did once, maybe they’ll do it again–doubtful, since I think playing a bidding war with the Yankees is just plain dumb on their part.

    Texas has won a grand total of two playoff series in their entire history. Yankees have won 27 World Series titles. Texas had never had a payroll over $100 million. Yankees have had the highest payroll in MLB for at least two decades. Yankees have been in the playoffs every year save one since 1994. Texas has been in the playoffs one year in the past 12.

    Sorry Chuck Greenberg, facts are facts. Add the above to another $20-25 million guaranteed over what you guys can reasonably afford. If Cliff Lee takes the Rangers over what is offered by the Yankees, family or no family, you have to question the guy’s makeup. Cashman probably included an opt-out, just like CC Sabathia (who by the way knows the guy well, and knows he is chomping at the bit to come to NY to compete).

    To Mrs. Lee: I know you guys are Arkansas people, but here is an opportunity for your husband to become the starter version of Mariano Rivera–ie the best postseason pitcher of all time. Yes, the Dallas area may be more like your home, but is it worth it for your husband’s career?

  190. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Fran, the good news is that any thinking I have to do involves only Minny and the Gints! It’s about whether I play Manningham or Rice. Everything else is pretty well set.

  191. Fran the original December 12th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    I heard that the NFL chose Detroit because there is a game there today. They already have a camera crew and officiating crew there and will hold them over for tomorrow. Maybe the fans will stay too :)

  192. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Keith Olbermann, the total moron, who cares what he says. He’s so far to the left of things, he has trouble seeing his computer screen.

  193. blake December 12th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Brett,

    I don’t prefer Greinke because I would still rather just give the money and not money and players if I can help it…..and currently Lee is a better pitcher than Greinke is with a track record of success in big games. BUT if he chooses Texas then I certainly think they should give Greinke a look….

  194. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    Have been reading the blog for two years. Love the give and take. Yankee fan since 1964. This deal for Lee is terrible for the future. Hope he goes away.

  195. PittsburghYankeeFan December 12th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    The tax issue is a non-issue. If pushed, the Yankees make up the difference in a side agreement to pay the local taxes, and there is more endorsement money in NY anyway.

  196. BBFan December 12th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    ““This whole talk about they need lot of time to understand the finanical implications of the offers is just a bunch of BS”.

    *********************

    With all due respect, no it isn’t.”

    Yes it is. I read what you wrote about taxes, estate planning all that. It does not fit.

    It is known from the time WS was over it is two team race and Yanks will outbid Rangers.
    Cash and Ryan went and met him some weeks back.
    He should have a good idea of where he wants to go and what the difference in offers should be for him to accept Yanks if he was leaning towards Rangers. It is not rocket science to understand the difference in the deals. You do not need more than day to look at that.

    I understand he can take his cool time, but he is kind of holding up the activity for many other players and they want to know about their future soon too. It is not just about Yanks and Rangers.

  197. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    Blake,

    I think Cliff Lee will be getting overpaid and overextended for a 33 year old with recent back issues. He could end up breaking down far too early into that deal like Kevin Brown did in his. At 25 million AAV that’s a tremendous gamble by the Steinbrenner’s.

    Greinke costs 27 million over the next 2 years. If he wants and extension for his no-trade clause and we extended him out 5 more years at 18 million per that works out to 16.7 AAV.

    I’d definitely take Greinke + 7 – 8 million extra which can be used to fortify other positions or slots on the pitching staff.

  198. Fran the original December 12th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Big Al,

    I am not here to defend Keith Olbermann but he is a Yankees fan and attends lots of games. I believe he may even have season tickets.

  199. PittsburghYankeeFan December 12th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    overjoel

    The deal is pretty dumb, but this is baseball in 2010. My only skin in this game is seeing if the guy could become the starter version of Mo–the best postseason pitcher of all time. It would be really cool to watch that, and it will only happen with him as a Yankee.

  200. blake December 12th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Pittsburg,

    The first sentence of your post isn’t relivent to anything that’s discussed here……but I agree with the rest of it.

  201. ac1 December 12th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    thing about greinke is we have to give up 4 players to get him.

  202. Crawdaddy December 12th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    “He’s so far to the left of things, he has trouble seeing his computer screen.”

    The same can be said about Bill O’Reilly except he’s too far to the right of things to see his computer screen.

  203. austinmac December 12th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    I hope the Yankees’ plan isn’t bullpen and bench if Lee isn’t signed. By trade or free agency? I don’t think they’d go for Soriano or him for them. Who is available on the bench from the free agent pool. Not much. So, we are looking at Feliciano and a role player with potentially two holes in the rotation? Surely not.

  204. UnKnown December 12th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    Vikes will be so disinterested in tomorrows game after having to travel to a neutral site that the G Men are going to kill them

  205. 86w183 December 12th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Once you are making $ 25 Million a year do you really have to worry about the f-ing taxes? Please.

    99.9% of the world would consider $ 2 Million a year to be a fortune you could live off forever.

    I still think he goes with Texas

  206. blake December 12th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Crawdaddy,

    Im.in favor of being “all in” on Lee and have said that many times. Im mainly talking about the scenerio if Lee stays in texas. That said, Cliff Lee could blow up in your face in 2011 also if he had a major injury….then you’re stuck with being on the hook for the rest of his deal….nothing is guaranteed.

  207. Fran the original December 12th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    austinmac,

    Maybe the Yankees would give Kerry Wood closer money to come set up for Mo if Lee doesn’t come here.

  208. UnKnown December 12th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Oak – What do you want to talk about Cliff Lee. That hasn’t been talked to death or anything.

  209. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    If the Yankees really want to screw the Rangers, they let them have Lee.

    Lee’s contract will be worse, if possible, than the A-Rod contract.

    They will be very limited as to what future moves they can make, and trying to re-sign Hamilton and others in the current market place will be very difficult, or impossible.

    If Lee throws a perfect game each time out, he stands to have a winning record in 2-3 years in Texas. Let him bake in the Texas sun, and see what that adds to his game.

    As someone pointed out earlier, Lee is below .500 against AL East teams – Hello!

  210. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    “Maybe the fans will stay too”

    :lol:

    ________________________

    Does everyone remember the year the Yankees got Carl Pavano? It was gut-wrenching waiting it out, and at least fans of three other cities had their hearts broken when he chose to come to the Yankees.

    How did that work out?

    The Yankees will survive whether or not Cliff Lee shows up. And sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t know.

  211. West Coast Yankee Fan December 12th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Keith Olbermann is a huge baseball fan with twenty years in sports journalism. He is eminently qualified to comment on the Lee situation.

    Here’s his blog on Lee.

    http://keitholbermann.mlblogs......cliff.html

  212. icebird753 December 12th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    I hope Lee becomes a Yankee, mostly because his beards are grotesque.

  213. YsGuy December 12th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    im with overjoel, i hope he signs with the angels or texas, i think the yankees are going to really stink in 6-7 years with so much money tied up in old players. (btw, i also became a fan in 1964 when i went to the old old stadium for the first time!)

  214. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Unknown I think the neutral site negates alot of the Vikes advantage. Maybe we won’t have 5 false starts for noise :-). I’m wondering who fills up the stadium for the game? Can’t believe a hugh contingent of Minn fans make the trip in this weather.

  215. West Coast Yankee Fan December 12th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Why would the Yankees want to screw the Rangers? They are competing for a player they want just like we are. The Yankees are in the business of winning in the AL East, not worrying about screwing another team in another division.

  216. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    For Greinke I’d offer:

    Montero + Gardner + Betances/Brackman (pick one) + Nova/Noesi (pick one)

    Then I’d target Matt Kemp for LF and offer:

    Romine + Joba + Nunez + Adams

  217. blake December 12th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    The Rangers would be much better of longterm if they let the Yankees have Lee for the money that is being offered. They are missing the forest for the trees and have let emotion carry them into this bidding war with the Yanks.

  218. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    I forget the writer but he was quoted as saying the Yankees and the rangers are acting like the are after Sandy Koufax. Please, lets keep the 170 mil and get some young studs.

  219. ac1 December 12th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    For Greinke I’d offer:

    Montero + Gardner + Betances/Brackman (pick one) + Nova/Noesi (pick one)

    Then I’d target Matt Kemp for LF and offer:

    Romine + Joba + Nunez + Adams

    __

    8 players for 2?

  220. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Boston overpayed and they will suffer, lets not run over the same cliff, pun
    intended

  221. 27heaven December 12th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    According to Jack Curry of YES Network, people who have spoken to Yankee officials said they have expressed a bit of skepticism about signing Cliff Lee.
    Sentiment definitely seems to be running the Rangers’ way today, though that doesn’t necessarily mean Lee is getting close to making a decision. The Yankees are believed to have the top offer on the board, though the Rangers do have the advantage of no state income tax in Texas.

  222. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Trish, I think Lee and Pavano are much different situations. Your right the wheels could fall off Lee, but I don’t think it will happen.

  223. ac1 December 12th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    if yankees and yankee fans were willing to wait a year or two, we could play with what we have, save money, and let our minor league players become stars. that just isnt an option though.

  224. YsGuy December 12th, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    has anyone heard about what greinke feels now about coming to nyc? i know there were indications that he didnt want to play in a big city and he had indicated in his limited no-trade that he didnt want to play in nyc, but that was before last season i believe…

    now i hear talk about greinke to philly and im thinking, if he’s up for going to philly, maybe his feelings have changed regarding ny. Philly may not be NY but their fans can be as brutal as just about anyone’s (especially toward santa clauses.)

    personally i like the idea of making a trade for greinke (if he’s up for it) than signing lee and his iffy back to a 7 year deal.

  225. ac1 December 12th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    and not only did you just offer 8 players for 2, you suggested trading BOTH of our catchers ‘of the future’.

  226. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    I’m being totally honest when I say that I’m really ambivalent about Lee. 7 years for a 32-year-old pitcher? Why is it that people get so hyped about a pitcher who masters the Yanks? Shouldn’t we want someone who also masters our main competitors?

    I’m actually okay with him choosing Texas. The worst part of it will be having to listen to the yelpings from RSN. You know they’ll have the Yanks for dead if that happens.

    JMO

  227. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    anyone think he nationals are gonna win the NL pennent? They started this insanity.

  228. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
    I forget the writer but he was quoted as saying the Yankees and the rangers are acting like the are after Sandy Koufax. Please, lets keep the 170 mil and get some young studs.

    YOU can say that again: he’s not Koufax.the concern for me is they will panic and deal away montero.if cashman were the gm in 1948,yogi berra might have been traded!

  229. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    trisha you are right on the mark, It is a terrible contract.

  230. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    ac1 December 12th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
    For Greinke I’d offer:

    Montero + Gardner + Betances/Brackman (pick one) + Nova/Noesi (pick one)

    Then I’d target Matt Kemp for LF and offer:

    Romine + Joba + Nunez + Adams

    __

    8 players for 2?

    ***********

    Maybe not but the point is, the Yankees have more than enough prospects/players to execute plan B and bring in a #2 (Greinke) to pitch behind Lee and a big bat to upgrade LF (Kemp).

  231. ac1 December 12th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    trish i am also feeling whatever about lee. I believe the yankees will do what they need to do to win, with or without Lee, and i agree Sox fans will be insufferable until we beat them down during the season.

  232. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
    Boston overpayed and they will suffer, lets not run over the same cliff, pun
    intended

    _____________________________________________________________________

    Overjoel, not at least in the short term. They had holes and they plugged them. I’m not a Sox fan, but you have to be a realist. Tex, Arod, and Cano vrs Crawford, Gonzales, Youkalis. Edge to Yanks, but not a hugh one. If they get that catcher they will definity be a big factor.

  233. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    edit: to pitch behind *Sabathia*, not Lee.

  234. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    But Gary, we sure didn’t think Pavano was a different situation from Lee when the Yankees were courting him. That’s my point. I see Lee as rather delicate. I could be totally wrong.

  235. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    If this is true and the Yankees are skeptical they’ll be signing Lee I’d like to see Cash approach the Lee camp at some point next week (if this is still dragging on) and tell them with Greinke available we’re gonna go in a different direction and hope he finds success in Texas. Pull the offer and start finding that rabbit in the hat we’ve been hearing so much about.

  236. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Baseball is hard to predict game by game. Why are folks worried about what’s going to happen 6 and 7 years down the road?

    The funny thing is, most of those who worry about years 6 and 7 claim the farm system is the way to go……well, if the farm is so legit, then lee is the #5 starter in years 6/7 behind hughes, betances, brackman, and banuelos…..right?

    Gotta have a view and stick to it. Can’t be all over the place. Lee makes the team way better right now, for 2011. You worry about 2016 when it gets close…..personally, I would like to win some titles before then.

  237. ac1 December 12th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    i like greinke and kemp, but not losing so much to do it. i would honestly rather bring up some young guys, let them play for the team, and go into a semi-rebuilding of the rotation.

  238. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    lets keep montero and develop some young talent, ya it might be short term ugliness, but my God! how long can we do this mantra, we must win the WS every year, it’s not working

  239. BBFan December 12th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    With the team we have we will still make the playoffs at least as WC given how much Rays lost.
    Once you are in playoffs, anything can happen just as this year.

    Still, if we lose on Lee there will be some improvements made with whatever backup plans.

  240. 108 stitches December 12th, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Not much said about Cliff Lee’s mindset from a pure baseball prospective. True, he’s a competitor but does he have a thirst for a ring and World Championship ? Would he like the experience of a parade down the Canyon of Heroes ? Seeing a championship flag hoisted on opening day ?
    He stands much less chance of seeing such things in Texas. They won’t provide the needed pieces each year.

  241. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Gary bostons pitching sucked last year… why is it gonna be better now?

  242. ac1 December 12th, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    i really hope in 3 years we are talking about CC/Hughes/and the Killer Bs.

  243. DaSaint007 December 12th, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    This reminds me of the banking ‘crash’. They all said that if they didn’t get an infusion of cheap government money, the system would collapse.

    Well they got it. And used it to buy smaller banks, clear their books, and now have record profits 2 years after the fact.

    Point is that that there is this clamor for a 32 year old pitcher, who barely had a 500 season last year, irrespective of his ‘historic’ post-season record, which just got blemished by the…SF Giants.

    If we don’t get Lee, the team’s season will not collapse. On the contrary, we may be better off long term, and if that means skipping this year to preserve our touted prospects and have some financial flexibility, then so be it.

  244. Fran the original December 12th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    You know they’ll have the Yanks for dead if that happens.
    *******************************
    Trisha,

    That’s ok. Let the Red Sox play with the target on their backs.

  245. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    I’m being totally honest when I say that I’m really ambivalent about Lee. 7 years for a 32-year-old pitcher? Why is it that people get so hyped about a pitcher who masters the Yanks? Shouldn’t we want someone who also masters our main competitors?

    _________________________________________________________________________

    Trish, just thought I’d comment on his Stats, he is 102 and 61 in the regular season and 7 and 2 in PS with a 2.13 ERA. It just seems his stats indicate he handles pretty much anyone.

  246. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    trish -

    Exactly right, and Lee has a sub .500 record against the AL East, the teams you need to beat.

    Although some out there don’t seem to understand those facts, they are worth noting.

    Hope you’re doing well, great to see you back.

  247. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    I sense fans are falling out of love with Cliff Lee. That’s not a bad thing. He’s not putting out.

  248. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    One championship in 11 years
    I was so thrilled with bernie, jete, Posada Tino, O’niel, and the make shift bull pen in the 90′s
    This is hard to say but they got george out of the way and built a team, scot Boras, man, i loved him

  249. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    Ac1 – I guess “generation trey” didn’t teach anyone a lesson about the miss rate of can’t miss stud young arms? Now its the killer b’s a whopping 3 years later.

  250. ac1 December 12th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    i also think the yankees need to change this idea of no extensions before FA.

  251. YsGuy December 12th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    carlo, alot of the people here remember the stump merrill days and some of us are even old enough to remember the horace clark era, and i can tell you, you dont want to go through that.

    persoanally, i plan on still being around to root for this team in 6 and 7 years and i dont want to see them running out a bunch of geezers because they are bound up in unmovable contracts.

  252. Eroc December 12th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    JoelSherman1

    @KeithOlbermann feel the pessimism, too. But everyone talked to in July said Lee was jacked for Yanks when looked like getting traded there

  253. PittsburghYankeeFan December 12th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    Yankees will be fine with or without Cliff Lee. From a pure baseball perspective, it would be neat to see him as a Yankee, but it isn’t the end of the world.

    They’ll be fine with a rotation of CC, AJ, Hughes, and Pettitte (he’ll come back to help if asked), with a load of depth in AAA. I wouldn’t go trading the farm for another starter, unless he is truly front end and able to handle NY.

    They’ll score plenty of runs as well.

    They need a bench player and another lefty reliever. A part time catcher would be helpful, but be sure he is a true upgrade from Cervelli.

    This is still a 95-100 win team. They will still make the playoffs.

  254. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    Dont love cliff lee

  255. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    Overjoel, not at least in the short term. They had holes and they plugged them. I’m not a Sox fan, but you have to be a realist. Tex, Arod, and Cano vrs Crawford, Gonzales, Youkalis. Edge to Yanks, but not a hugh one. If they get that catcher they will definity be a big factor.

    IT BECOMES a much bigger edge if ARod can fully bounce back in terms of his health.Cano despite having a ridiculous season has even higher to climb and is in his late 20s. Tex should have a better year being still a younger player. i’m not one to underplay Boston additions and try to convince myself and others that Crawford isn’t dangerous. Gonzales will be a problem in the stadium even more so because his check swing could land in the rf stands.i still like our lineup better tho. Youk isn’t geting any younger either you know and has nagging injuries all the time.

  256. ac1 December 12th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    Ac1 – I guess “generation trey” didn’t teach anyone a lesson about the miss rate of can’t miss stud young arms? Now its the killer b’s a whopping 3 years later.

    ___

    I said I hope. I personally never believed in Ian Kennedy. I think Joba would have been dominant if he wasn’t messed up with the uncertainty of rotation or pen. And can’t argue against Hughes.

    So yes, i do believe 1 or 2 of the Bs will be a start in a few years.

  257. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    IF ANDY comes back even without lee I like our pitching better than Sox in rotation and BP. we today are still the better team but ALCS just got tougher.

  258. DaSaint007 December 12th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Well said PittsburghYF

  259. LGY December 12th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    Citing Cliff Lee’s career statistics doesn’t make much sense given the nature of his career to date and the path he took to get here.

    No one is signing Cliff Lee based on his career, because of the changes he made after going down to the minors.

    They are signing the Cliff Lee of 2008-2010.

    The pitcher who has averaged over 7 innings per start with a 2.98 ERA and 1.12 WHIP.

  260. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    I dont thing the dodger guy with the injuries and the free fall career is better than cervelli. Why do we need russell martin?

  261. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Gary -

    When you look at Lee’s overall record, very impressive, but, look at the trend; 2009 14-13 with 3.22 ERA, 2010 12-9 with 3.18 ERA, that’s 26-22 the past 2 seasons. His overall record reflects 2 very good years prior to 2009. He did not pitch well for Texas, and lost both games in the WS.

    I fear we are going down the wrong path, and willing to over pay for a good pitcher, that will no longer give you CC type W-L each season of that 7 year contract.

  262. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Ys – first of all, you don’t know how old I am. Second, I don’t remember horace clarke years but I am well aware of the stump merrill days. The issue with ur mindset is that in those days, we would deplete our farm system and have no support group. A large dollar free agent costs us no talent and allows us to miss on prospects while filling holes with inexpensive farm help. If we get cliff, the chances of having 3 potential future starters (banuelos, brackman, betances) remains. The chances of 1 of 3 being a rotation helper remains. Now, we have Lee making $23 mm and one of them making very little….so, we have two rotation spots for $25 mm. Not all that bad when viewed that way.

  263. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    For those who love the Pats, this is what they’ll be playing in today-

    Blizzard conditions likely with winds 25-30 MPH and gusts to 50 MPH

    :)

    May Tom Brady’s fingers fall off.

  264. PittsburghYankeeFan December 12th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    In the end, I still think this is a ploy to get the 7th year guaranteed out of Texas, followed by a counter from the Yankees. This is very similar to the AJ Burnett negotiation three years ago. Yankees offered 5 years at $16 million, Atlanta was 4 years at $15.5 million. After a few days of waiting, AJ took the Yankees and 5 years.

    If I’m Texas, I don’t go 7. Going 6 was a dumb enough move for them. There is no telling what the revenue stream is going to be, what the financial makeup of the club will be in the next 4-5 years, who will still be with them, etc. The team was just purchased.

  265. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Here is a radical thought why dont we do what needs to be done to have a great team and quit reacting to Boston garbage?

  266. ac1 December 12th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Forget Lee’s record, since apparently being 1 game over .500 can get you a Cy Young.

  267. joeman December 12th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    may up ending going 8

  268. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Overjoel,

    Martin gunned down 40% of base runners. He’s an excellent defensive catcher and a clear upgrade over Cervelli with tremendous upside when healthy. He’ll come in handy against Crawford + Ellsbury and the Rangers running game too.

  269. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    Trisha i love the Bears at home in the mud during december

  270. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    AC – when generation trey came of age……there was a much greater track record than there is now for the killer b’s. So, give it a year and brackman may be joba and betances may be kennedy, and banuelos may be hughes in ur eyes……then what?

  271. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    Overjoel, great question, one of those $20K questions ie Boston vrs Yanks pitching. They got solid years from Leister and Buckholtz, but disappointments they would admit from Lackey, Becket and Dice K. We got lights out from CC and great years from Phil and Andy. With Andy up in the air now and Boston I think getting better run support and defense without Lee I’m not sure who holds an edge.

  272. joeman December 12th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    # trisha – true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    For those who love the Pats, this is what they’ll be playing in today-

    Blizzard conditions likely with winds 25-30 MPH and gusts to 50 MPH

    :)

    May Tom Brady’s fingers fall off.
    ———————————————
    short dump passes to Welker all day

  273. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    This is still a 95-100 win team. They will still make the playoffs.

    THIS IS clearly likely. The problem is the yanks over reacting. its potentially the yankees themselves that will become too aggressive,that’s the worry for me, not that they can’t compete and even prevail.

  274. DaSaint007 December 12th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Power move:
    Sign Rafael Soriano to a 4 year/$40M contract, Will Ohman to a 1 year/$2M contract and Pedro Feliciano to a 1 year/$2M contract

  275. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Bret a interesting stat, but he cant hit or play consistantly

  276. ac1 December 12th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Carlo, it is worth it to give it a chance, because long term success is not going to come from paying everyone 25 Mil/year. At some point, you have to see what you can get from the prospects.

  277. Fran the original December 12th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    May Tom Brady’s fingers fall off.
    *******************
    Trisha,

    I second that :)

    The Jets, on the other hand, will be playing in a 50 degree monsoon.

  278. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
    Here is a radical thought why dont we do what needs to be done to have a great team and quit reacting to Boston garbage?

    well yes. the fear is the yankees over reacting. agree entirely.

  279. clownthrowindown December 12th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    LoHud posters a week ago: We want Lee – he’s the best…Greinke can’t pitch in NY

    A week later: We’re mad at Lee…Get Greinke, he’s better and younger and cheaper

    After Lee signs with NY: We always wanted Lee – he’s the best…Greinke can’t pich in NY

    There is no limit to the entertainment value here!

  280. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    Overjoel,

    You said you don’t think Martin is better than Cervelli. He clearly is.

  281. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    actualy i have not been completely comfortable since cashman dressed as a el and went down the building Maybe i am to negative

  282. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    Fran -

    It’s a lot eaier to play in rain, than Chi town deep freeze.

  283. YsGuy December 12th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    FA signings can be great as they come without player cost, BUT if you make a bad sign, it will prevent you from making another big signing that can help later. i m not arguing against FA signings, i just dont think this one is a good one for the yankees over the 7 year life of the contract.

    and remember the dynasty of the 90′s included picking up oniell wettland and tino in trades.

  284. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    “Trisha i love the Bears at home in the mud during december”

    I’m playing Johnny Knox today.

    :)

  285. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Clown,

    1 or 2 of us, IF THAT, were advocating for Greinke over Lee from the start.

  286. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Ac – my point is, signing guys like Lee gives the farm system a chance. Not signing him and trading for someone lesser is what cripplies the future.

  287. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Bret clearly, broken hip, four years of declining batting averages, the dodgers gave up on him, whats clear about this?

  288. Angelo Silecchio December 12th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Thank god for some football today so we can all have a mini-mental break from this drama

    http://sportsthunderdome.blogspot.com/

  289. RadioKev December 12th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Gotta take the good with the bad. Sure he lost two WS games, but what was his post season record before that? He was also playing the hottest team in baseball who also had outstanding pitching.

    Last year he had back issues in the second half, but in the first half the man was lights out on an awful team – so his record is a bit skewed. Same goes for 2009, the Indians were plain awful.

    When talking about Lee, look at his ERA and his big starts. The man pitches well in big starts, he has a good ERA, and he’s a work horse.

    He’s also a pitcher’s pitcher. He doesn’t depend on pure stuff, so as he ages he’s less likely to have a sudden decline. That doesn’t eliminate the possibility of injuries, which does make the contract risky, but he doesn’t have a particularly bad history of injuries. On paper you wouldn’t assume injuries in his future – so I’m not sure if that’s fair to hold against him. That’s just the nature of any long term contract.

  290. DaSaint007 December 12th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Alternate to my prior post: or trade for David Ardsma instead of Soriano.

  291. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    “LoHud posters a week ago: We want Lee – he’s the best…Greinke can’t pitch in NY

    A week later: We’re mad at Lee…Get Greinke, he’s better and younger and cheaper

    After Lee signs with NY: We always wanted Lee – he’s the best…Greinke can’t pich in NY

    There is no limit to the entertainment value here!”

    Y-A-W-N!!!!!

  292. 86w183 December 12th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    I also don’t view Lee as the “absolutely must get” guy that others and most national mediots proclaim him as.

    If the Yanks preserve that financial stability they have a number of options moving forward. Additionally while the Red Sawx appear to be much improved (if healthy) the Rays are a boatload worse so I fail to see where post-season prospects are significantly diminished at this stage of the off-season.

  293. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    carlo, what about not trading everyone away for some like randy johnson or kevin brown, i remember

  294. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Gary -

    When you look at Lee’s overall record, very impressive, but, look at the trend; 2009 14-13 with 3.22 ERA, 2010 12-9 with 3.18 ERA, that’s 26-22 the past 2 seasons. His overall record reflects 2 very good years prior to 2009. He did not pitch well for Texas, and lost both games in the WS.

    I fear we are going down the wrong path, and willing to over pay for a good pitcher, that will no longer give you CC type W-L each season of that 7 year contract.

    __________________________________________________________________________
    I look at his ERA that is pretty stable and respectable. W/L can be effected by alot of things beyond the pitchers control, as in Felix.

  295. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Ys – I can also argue that the trades that brought those guys made us make the free agent signing mistakes of the 01-06 period. Not that the trades themselves burnt us in anyway, but they did lessen our system.

  296. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    And at least a few of us have been ambivalent about Lee from the get go.

    Well think I’ll watch me a little football. Interestingly enough the earth continues to spin no matter what Cliff Lee does, and the Yanks still have the most world series titles in major league baseball.

    It’s good to be a Yankee fan.

    :)

    Later y’all.

  297. YsGuy December 12th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    lights-out pitcher in his 30′s with a bad back signing a humongous long-term contract at the top of his game….anyone remember Kevin Brown?

  298. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Overjoel – what about not trading everyone away for CC or Andy (round 2). U highlight two 38 year old pitchers at the end of their careers and randy johnson was a trade by the way.

  299. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Well one advantage of the Giants being moved to Monday night, they know what everyone including Philly did. Geez I didn’t think I’d ever be routing for Dallas.

  300. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    86 i agree in the short term we might be salavating after Lee, … but it’s not really gonna help us in three or four years

  301. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    carlo Andy is a yankee baby, he never got the big money

  302. DaSaint007 December 12th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    I’m wary of any major league pitcher that 1) started his pro career late, 2) was inconsistent enough to be demoted to the minors by Cleveland of all teams, has bounced around through trade (now why would anyone want to trade such talent?) for 2 straight years, has had abdominal and back issues, and was barely a 500 pitcher in a pitcher friendly ballpark, who then lost 2 games to an NL team which admittantly had excellent pitching, but not good hitting.

    And did I mention that we now want to give him a contract of $160+M for 7 years, so we can watch him be a #5 starter at age 39 for $24M as someone posted earlier?

    Pass Cashman. All that glitters isn’t necessarily gold.

  303. RadioKev December 12th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Greinke has also only had one outstanding season and a few pretty good seasons. He doesn’t have a sustained track record of success and he’s never pitched a big game before. That just is not worth big time prospects, it’s too much of a gamble.

    Big time prospects for a sure-thing? That’s another story. Then again, look at a sure thing like Johan Santana. Baseball is an unpredictable sport..

  304. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    CC was a pure signing we gave up cash thats all

  305. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    the system is teeming with talent.that part has been corrected from 2004 to present.the question is how they go about using it.

  306. Fran the original December 12th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Big Al,

    True. Rain is easier. But I don’t trust Nick Folk with the swirling winds today.

  307. PoG December 12th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Have been trying to follow up on all the comments but what is the consensus if Lee does not sign with the Yankees?

    Personally I think this game of shenanigans by he and his agent is tiring and outdated. Since Lee was traded to the Rangers both he and his agent knew there would be three serious suitors for his services. Yankees, Rangers, and any of Angels, Red Sox, Phillies (although these three may not have been too serious).

    At any rate, what is there to consider. (1) Yankees – overpaying a ridiculous amount for your services and a guarantee to be in the playoffs every year with a shot at a WS ring, perhaps multiple. (2) Rangers – overpaying a ridiculous amount for your services but may not be a guarantee to make the playoffs every year because of the Angels.

    Either way Lee is very rich and I don’t see the big issue.

  308. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Overjoel,

    How is Cervelli better than a catcher who put up the same numbers but gunned base stealers at twice the rate of Cervelli?

    Explain that.

  309. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Is there anyway to sign a young David Cone?

  310. YsGuy December 12th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    i have no problem rooting for the cowgirls tonight. the EAGLES are the enemy, the cows are just some lousy team that barely competes in our division, basically one step above the redskins.

    for this entire decade we start every year hearing about how the ‘girls are going to the super bowl and then the real men, the eagles and giants battle it out for supremacy in the division. (yes i know the girls won last season but it was one and done and rebuild!)
    despite espn pushing everything cowboy, the gmen and the eagles are the cream of the division and the cows are also-rans.

    GO G-Men!!!

  311. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Zack Greinke’s not expected to be an ace here. He’d be the #2 behind CC Sabathia and a darn good #2 at that.

    With 2 CY award winners at the top of the rotation, you really can’t complain.

  312. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Brett cervelli is younger and has a upside, Martin is in a clear decline

  313. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Brett cervelli is younger and has a upside, Martin is in a clear decline

  314. GreenBeret7 December 12th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
    Overjoel,

    Martin gunned down 40% of base runners. He’s an excellent defensive catcher and a clear upgrade over Cervelli with tremendous upside when healthy. He’ll come in handy against Crawford + Ellsbury and the Rangers running game too.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    It seem that somebody stole his “tremendous upside” about 3 years ago.

  315. RadioKev December 12th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    DaSaint007 December 12th, 2010 at 1:03 pm
    I’m wary of any major league pitcher that 1) started his pro career late, 2) was inconsistent enough to be demoted to the minors by Cleveland of all teams, has bounced around through trade (now why would anyone want to trade such talent?) for 2 straight years, has had abdominal and back issues, and was barely a 500 pitcher in a pitcher friendly ballpark, who then lost 2 games to an NL team which admittantly had excellent pitching, but not good hitting.

    And did I mention that we now want to give him a contract of $160+M for 7 years, so we can watch him be a #5 starter at age 39 for $24M as someone posted earlier?

    Pass Cashman. All that glitters isn’t necessarily gold.

    ——-

    1) Why would you be wary of a pitcher who started his pro-career late? Less mileage on the arm.

    2) Roy Halladay. Oh yeah, and he’s been a better pitcher than anyone on the Yankees for the past 3 years.

    3) Those injuries never knocked him out for long, most players get some form of an injury throughout the year.

    4) Clearly when you become 39 you become awful. Tell that to Rivera, Andy Pettitte if we resign him, Mike Mussina, Greg Maddux, and all the other pitchers that have proven that trend wrong. Not a sure thing.

  316. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    Overjoel,

    Youth doesn’t mean squat if a player has no upside. What is Cervelli’s upside?

  317. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Bret than love your catcher who is washed up

  318. DaSaint007 December 12th, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    4) Clearly when you become 39 you become awful. Tell that to Rivera, Andy Pettitte if we resign him, Mike Mussina, Greg Maddux, and all the other pitchers that have proven that trend wrong. Not a sure thing.
    ————————————–
    would you want to pay Rivera, Pettite, Mussina, or Maddux $24 million for their age 39 seasons?

  319. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    Green Beret,

    If Martin can get healthy, he has all-star upside. The Yankees have seen his medical records and I trust their judgment.

  320. YsGuy December 12th, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    i see martin as a good prospective pick-up alot like swisher and granderson. picking up a guy with a ton of talent when his value is way down and not paying through the nose is a great way to go. Martin is a very solid defensive catcher who showed signs early that he has some hitting ability and who also has speed (‘for a catcher)
    i think if he can be had for a reasonable rate, on a team like the yankees who are not depending on him to hit in the middle of the order, martin could be a really solid p/u.

    especially considering that montero has the bat but questionable defensive skills.

  321. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Overjoel,

    As long as the Yankees are pursuing Russell Martin as an upgrade over Cervelli, I’m content.

  322. RadioKev December 12th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
    Zack Greinke’s not expected to be an ace here. He’d be the #2 behind CC Sabathia and a darn good #2 at that.

    With 2 CY award winners at the top of the rotation, you really can’t complain.

    —–

    Sure, let’s sign Bartolo Colon and make it 3 Cy Young winners!

    If you look at Greinke’s overall numbers, it’s a little too early to make judgements, I’d say. Last year was a mighty decline from that Cy Young season. Was 2009 a fluke or a glimpse of future success? Who knows. He’s had one other decent full season.

    Come on, that’s not a sure thing and it’s not consistent when you’re asking for several top prospects. He could be a nice addition, or could be a poor one, while costing you your teams possible future superstars. The Yanks should just spend the money, since realistically it seems unlikely they will be in financial ruin 7 years down the road.

  323. RadioKev December 12th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    DaSaint007 December 12th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
    4) Clearly when you become 39 you become awful. Tell that to Rivera, Andy Pettitte if we resign him, Mike Mussina, Greg Maddux, and all the other pitchers that have proven that trend wrong. Not a sure thing.
    ————————————–
    would you want to pay Rivera, Pettite, Mussina, or Maddux $24 million for their age 39 seasons?

    ————

    First, who knows what the payment structure will be for a potential 7th season.

    Second, is money realistically an issue?

  324. YsGuy December 12th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    hey, cervelli has some trade value, in fact his value right now may be as high as it ever will be.

    they also might be moving to set up plan b – moving montero in a trade (for greinke?)

  325. GreenBeret7 December 12th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
    Green Beret,

    If Martin can get healthy, he has all-star upside. The Yankees have seen his medical records and I trust their judgment.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    You’re better off trying to amaze people with your fantasy trades. At least people get a good laugh.

  326. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    Let me say this:

    Media – lee heart strings story…..no direct quotes, all speculation

    Sabathia on the record – “I don’t think we’re going to have to do much recruiting”…..when asked about obtaining lee several months ago

    One guy makes a statement from the perspective of a personal friend to Lee. Another group has no idea but knows making the yankee universe squirm sells papers and advertisements.

    You do the math while trying to pretend like Lee doesn’t put us in the drivers seat for titles in 2011 and beyond.

  327. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    Grienke has the potential to be Ed Whitten. he has anxiety issues. So do I but I dont pitch in NY

  328. YsGuy December 12th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    “that’s not a sure thing and it’s not consistent when you’re asking for several top prospects. He could be a nice addition, or could be a poor one, while costing you your teams possible future superstars.”

    - or kc could be trading away a future mutltiple cy winner for a bunch of guys who never make a splash in the majors.

  329. DaSaint007 December 12th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    RadioKev December 12th, 2010 at 1:15 pm
    DaSaint007 December 12th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
    4) Clearly when you become 39 you become awful. Tell that to Rivera, Andy Pettitte if we resign him, Mike Mussina, Greg Maddux, and all the other pitchers that have proven that trend wrong. Not a sure thing.
    ————————————–
    would you want to pay Rivera, Pettite, Mussina, or Maddux $24 million for their age 39 seasons?

    ————

    First, who knows what the payment structure will be for a potential 7th season.

    Second, is money realistically an issue?
    ————————————————-
    Yes Kev, otherwise we’d offer Lee even more. Money is always an issue. Last I checked, they don’t give out blank checks, as it could have an impact on their other financial decisions.

  330. RadioKev December 12th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    And when I say, is money an issue, well of course to some extent it is. The nature of the Yankees overpaying a player isn’t the value from money to performance on any given year, it’s the nature of the quality of play over the course of the contract.

    Did you get a significant amount of high quality play? Forget about money, since it’s clearly overpaying to obtain most players on the Yankees. The question is, did you secure high quality play from a player that you needed to keep out of other teams hands?

    I’m willing to bet that the for the next 3-4 years Lee will still be pitching at a very high quality – but who knows from there. Maybe good quality? Maybe still great? Maybe ok? In either case you get close to a sure thing for several years, and then some question marks with upside for the remainder of a potential contract. Could certainly be worth the money, but even if the last year is a bust, who the heck cares? We paid Pavano millions to do nothing at all and somehow survived to tell the tale AND win a world series right after.

  331. YsGuy December 12th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    cincinati-pittsburgh or green bay- detroit…what a come down! i was so fired up for the GMen today!

  332. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    Carlo there is no drivers seat anymore. The colorado Rockies, The Sf Giants, The chicago white sox, nobody thought they had a chance in hell

  333. coney1 December 12th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Do you think the Yankees are sending messages through Jack Curry, Buster Olney, etc. about being skeptical they will sign Lee to send a message to them that they are not raising his offer?

  334. DaSaint007 December 12th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Can we really see Montero calling games for CC, Andy, Pettitte and Mr. Lee?

    Hughes, maybe.

    And can we really expect Russel Martin to know AL hitters and call a game appropriately, esp. for CC, Andy, and Pettitte, never mind Mr. Lee?

    I’m ok with picking him up, but I’d rather an AL experienced catcher.

  335. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    YsGuy we got cinn/Pitts and TB/Wash. So far TB keeps trying to pass I guess they didn’t watch the tapes from last week.

  336. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Overjoel – ok, then by that logic we shouldn’t spend any money anywhere since anyone can win. That explains the sucess of so many teams. When you have two horses at the front of ur rotation and a league leading offense……ur a title frontrunner…..that’s indisputable.

  337. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    carlo it is about being smart not throwing money at every need

  338. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Joel – you are not making sense……you basically have no thesis here……if you dont throw money at the number one need for every team in baseball, starting pitching, then where exactly do you suggest spending it?

    You cant sit there and pretend like not spending puts us in a better position to win now, or in the future. it does neither.

  339. YsGuy December 12th, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    carlo mellow dude, not everyone is as overjoyed about the prospect of Lee as you are, no big deal! you go immediatly to ‘fa’s are better than trades’ and ‘you must be a front runner’ (to a guy who ‘s been a fan through the late 60′s and early 90′s no less).
    any 7 year contract is a risk, it may turn out well or poorly or probably somewhere in between, but its not a slam dunk either way.

  340. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Fran -

    Run, Run, Run the ball, and a few very short passes in between.

  341. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Did someone mention football – good idea.

    Bye

  342. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    ys – i dont think you could have misread the situation anymore than you have. I am ok with that though.

    When did I say any of what you are claiming I said? When did I say anything about anyone front running or make the blanket statement that free agents are better than trades?

    What I did say was that every free agent is not randy johnson and kevin brown…..and that sometimes trades work out, sometimes they dont…..and that if people think the farm is so loaded, then why unload to trade for another pitcher when a great pitcher is there to be had for cash……..and the cash you spend on Lee will be softened by using the farm system to have cost controlled starters in the out years.

    Like I said, I dont care much about your blatant misread, but dont bother coming back to me again with nonsense and made up statements i supposedly made.

  343. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    Coney,

    Possibly…it’s an interesting theory.

  344. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    I am completely stumped as to how the Yankees are going to get a setup guy at this point.

  345. Captain Clutch December 12th, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Not that this means anything, but…

    Joelsherman1 Based on gut, not reporting, I think Lee camp has used time expertly to discomfort #Yankees, get edgy to 1 last time up offer, seal deal

  346. RadioKev December 12th, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Apologies if this was posted all ready, but I found this interesting. Could taxes factor into Lee’s decision?

    http://online.wsj.com/article/.....TopStories

  347. overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Carlo, it’s baseball, i dont need a thesis. i think 175 million dollors is better for the yankees than a 32 year old diva pitcher.

  348. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Green Beret,

    How’s your Fortenberry + Hilligoss fantasy playing out, Mr. Reality?

  349. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

  350. RadioKev December 12th, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
    I am completely stumped as to how the Yankees are going to get a setup guy at this point.

    ———-

    The system. Give Robertson and Joba a few more shots, and then see if anyone else has the stuff. Set up guys are just way too overvalued on the FA market, especially when the Yankees have such good young arms in the minors.

    Not to say that the set up man isn’t important, they’re just typically not consistant enough to be worth the money. If they were consistant, they’d be closers somewhere.

  351. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    RadioKev,

    The system seems about right. It’s looking that way right now.

  352. blake December 12th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    Sherman thinks the Lee camp is using time to cause doubt with the Yankees to force one last bump in the offer to seal the deal…..I tend to agree with him.

  353. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Blake,

    But would the bump serve to bring Lee to the Yanks or up the Rangers final offer?

  354. SAS December 12th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    overjoel,

    12 years old is your age…not the pitchers. You better do better at spelling in school.

  355. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Overjoel –

    overjoel December 12th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
    CC was a pure signing we gave up cash thats all

    ———————————

    Ok – whats Lee exactly?

  356. LGY December 12th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    “Ok – whats Lee exactly?”

    ———–

    blood, sweat, and tears.

  357. Ed H. December 12th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Does Cashman flinch and up the offer?

  358. RadioKev December 12th, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    I also think it’s a bit silly about this continued idea that athletes who take the time to negotiate a contract are being “divas” or creating drama.

    Although they benefit from the 24 hour news cycle, they didn’t create it. It’s the media that creates the drama, because the people want to know. Most athletes couldn’t give a damn what the media thinks about their money.

    Think about it. These guys are signing contracts for years upon years. Do you have a contract at your job? If so, how long is it? I doubt it’s a 7 year contract that will determine where you’ll be living 7 years from now. I doubt it’s worth as much money as these guys deal with. I also doubt that your job expires when you turn 40.

    They make ridiculous amounts of money, sure, but it’s only good business to negotiate. On a small scale, do you take the first offer from used car salesmen?

  359. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    LGY – its amazing what 3 days of waiting does to people. Now folks have convinced themselves that we are better off without him. Because in years 6 and 7 that money will be better spent on a kid who could potentially be graduating 8th grade this year and may or may not be good.

  360. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    If we sign Lee today I am going to go to bed so sick with worry tonight about the 2017 Yankees.

  361. Phranchise December 12th, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Why up the offer at this point? If the Yankees deal is more money to begin with, regardless of the tax benefit which they worked out to a million or two, why would a few extra million sway him now, at this point? There is always endorsement money available which will be higher in NY and the ability for the Yankees to sustain a payroll and stay competitive is a lot higher as well if he wants to win.

  362. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Sherman = spot on. That’s why I tell him I’m done waiting if this drags on for another week.

  363. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    The Yankees offer is their final offer……Brauneker is simply dotting his i’s and crossing his t’s to be 100% sure. If they “raise the offer again” then its safe to say the media had it wrong to begin with with respect to what the offers on the table at present actually are.

  364. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    Shame,

    Another week???!!!!

    LOHUD will surely self-destruct!

  365. CB December 12th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    Most accurate take I’ve seen on the Lee situation today:

    “Cliff Lee’s silence has become a Rorschach test. It’s whatever you want it to be.”

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....-1.2535644

  366. Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Who breaks the news? Sherman broke CC……my money is on george king this time around.

  367. Bret The Hitman December 12th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    While the Yankees search for a setup guy and a second lefty who fits their budget, Aroldis Chapman will be earning about the same amount of money as Joaquin Benoit.

    That makes me sick to my stomach.

  368. Captain Clutch December 12th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    I read an article yesterday that said the Yankees are allowed to pay Lee’s tax on the contract so he wouldn’t have to pay the money. So basically he would get the full $160m or whatever they offered. That’s crazy. The Yankees shouldn’t up the offer or do anything like that. Either he wants to be a Yankee or not. If not let him go back to that one year wonder team but they shouldn’t have to beg the guy.

  369. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
    If we sign Lee today I am going to go to bed so sick with worry tonight about the 2017 Yankees

    _______________________________________________________________________

    Exactly Carlos, so much hand ringing from some of the CPA’s here on the site. If we won 2 rings before that who cares it was worth it.

  370. 108 stitches December 12th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    Put the pressure on Braunecker and Lee. Give them a deadline of a noontime decision Monday or the Yankees go in another direction.
    Go full bore for Andy and sign Kerry Wood even if it’s an overpay. Sign Feliciano.
    Check with Larry Rothschild and see if getting Carlos Zambrano is a risk. If Rothschild thinks it’s a good move, send Chamberlain, Nova, Russo, and cash for Zambrano.
    K.C. will want too much for Greinke beginning with Montero.

    Let Cliff Lee find out what the A-Rod affect is like in Texas.

  371. RadioKev December 12th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    I guess anyone bewildered by the Yankees offer has to ask themselves, when was the last time a pitcher like this hit FA? CC is obviously great but never had success in the playoffs. It just doesn’t happen often. Usually extensions are signed or trades happen.

  372. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    108 stitches

    No deadlines we have gone to far down this road already. Looks like nothing today, I’m sure there will be a decision tomm probably in the afternoon Even though some think that players care less about anything other than themselves they do know that the ongoing decison process effects friends, co players and teams. Otherwise it can’t go on forever.

  373. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    I see in the Halftime report that Arron Rodgers got KO’ed with a concussion and is out for the rest of the game. Detroit now has to have a legitimate shot at beating them and helping the Giants. What a weekend if Giants win and GB, Chicago, TB, and Philly all lose.

  374. Against All Odds December 12th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    # Carlo December 12th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    LGY – its amazing what 3 days of waiting does to people. Now folks have convinced themselves that we are better off without him. Because in years 6 and 7 that money will be better spent on a kid who could potentially be graduating 8th grade this year and may or may not be good
    ——————————————-

    Lol can you really blame them though it’s either believe he isn’t coming here and moving on or still waving the flag that he is coming here only to see him stay in Texas.

  375. RhapsodyInBlue December 12th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    It could just be that the Lee family would like to enjoy this weekend without handling endless phone calls from the organization he goes with. And the mediots.

    Which he would be getting if he agreed the past few days. Why Monday morning makes sense.

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