The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Rebuilding the rotation (again)

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 13, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

It’s pretty well established — and difficult to argue — that the Yankees need Cliff Lee. They have their ace, but the rest of the rotation is either relatively inexperienced (Phil Hughes), unreliable (A.J. Burnett), untested (Ivan Nova) or unnamed (is Sergio Mitre the fifth starter right now?).

Didn’t the Yankees just rebuild their rotation two years ago?

It was at exactly this time in 2008 that the Yankees signed Burnett and CC Sabathia, landing two premier free agents who immediately helped them win a championship. Now the Yankees are in desperate need of pitching help again. What happened to that group of starters?

ALCS Yankees Rangers BaseballCC Sabathia
Good as advertised
Whatever rotation problems popped up in the past two years, they weren’t Sabathia’s fault. Two years into a seven-year deal, Sabathia has 40 wins and a couple of top-four finishes in the Cy Young voting. The No. 1 spot in the rotation is secure.

A.J. Burnett
Worst-case scenario
Burnett had a hit-and-miss reputation when he came to the Yankees, but he also had five-straight seasons with a 4.07 ERA or lower. He made it six straight in his first Yankees season, then he made arguably the most important start of the 2009 postseason. Of course, 2010 was a different story altogether, the idea of a repeat performance makes his spot in the rotation unreliable at best. Burnett has three seasons left on his deal, and he could bounce right back, but last season was cause for significant concern.

Andy Pettitte
The inevitable question
When Pettitte re-signed before the 2009 season, it was with the understanding that he was nearing the end of his career. One year. Two years. Three years. However long the wait, Pettitte’s spot in the rotation was never built to last, so the fact he’s considering retirement certainly comes as no shock. The question of whether Pettitte would come back was inevitable. Of all the current rotation questions, this one was most predictable.

ALCS Yankees Rangers BaseballJoba Chamberlain
The tough decision
Chamberlain had some good moments in his first full season as a Major League starter, but his 4.75 ERA wasn’t exactly inspiring and last spring he was bumped back to bullpen by the emergence of Phil Hughes. After years of back-and-forth questions, the Yankees finally made a decision on Chamberlain, declaring him a full-time reliever, and they don’t seem likely to stray from that approach. He’s essentially been replaced by Hughes, giving the Yankees one young, homegrown starter instead of two.

Chien-Ming Wang
Still trying to recover
That 2009 season was supposed to be a return to form for Wang. He was supposed to be healthy, and a healthy Wang was supposed to mean another season of effective sinkers and close to 20 wins. Instead, Wang won one game that year and he hasn’t pitched in the big leagues since. In reality, the two-year unraveling of the Yankees recently rebuilt rotation started with Wang. He couldn’t make it through the season, Chamberlain’s future was in the air and no one knew how much longer Pettitte would pitch. The Yankees rotation had been rebuilt heading into 2009 season, and by that winter there were already significant longterm questions.

Associated Press photos

 
 

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157 Responses to “Rebuilding the rotation (again)”

  1. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    Well Joba stunk and Wang blew out his arm – can’t plan for that sorta stuff…

  2. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    Dustin Mosley should do well with the Padres – if you can’t pitch in San Diego it’s time to move to Japan.

  3. Angelo Silecchio December 13th, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    I find it hard to see Andy coming back if we don’t get Lee. Andy’s expressed strong feelings towards retirement this year (more than usual) and I can’t see anything short of a real legit shot to win another WS bringing him back for one more year.

    http://sportsthunderdome.blogspot.com/

  4. Bronx Jeers December 13th, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    The Yanks rotation will always be fine as long as the next best arm demanding a new record salary comes along every couple of years. :wink:

  5. Yank 97 December 13th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    “The Yanks rotation will always be fine as long as the next best arm demanding a new record salary comes along every couple of years. :wink:

    haha sad but true

  6. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    It’s not Cliff Lee but it is an annoying topic:

    What do the Yankees do with Joba Chamberlain?

    Is he ever going to be anything here more than a middle of the pen relief pitcher?

    Is his value ever going to get back to where it was or is it still falling?

    Do you deal him or try to get him back to being a starter or just leave him where he is?

  7. Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    http://www.fangraphs.com/commu.....mit-recap/

  8. Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    Another article, this is about Field FX, the new revolutionary system which will really help us get to the bottom of defense.

    http://www.baseballprospectus......1283072056

  9. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
    Another article, this is about Field FX, the new revolutionary system which will really help us get to the bottom of defense.

    http://www.baseballprospectus……1283072056

    ——————————-

    Here’s the bottom line on defense – if a player catches the ball that he’s supposed to catch..Yay.

  10. Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    if a player catches the ball that he’s supposed to catch..Yay.

    Great Chip, now tell me how you are determining if the player is SUPPOSED to catch it or not. Thanks

  11. BJK December 13th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    “…a healthy Wang was supposed to mean another season of effective sinkers and close to 20 wins.”

    …nah.

  12. LGY December 13th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    But, could FieldFX predict that Edgar Renteria would hit a huge HR in the WS? If not, then who needs it??? Billy Beane is ruining baseball!!! :mad:

    /Chip’d

  13. Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    The best thing is, Field and Player FX are based on pictures taken of the position of everything on the field 15 times a second, which might make it the first stat which cannot be argued with ‘watch the game’, because the stat itself watches every game at a better rate than humans.

  14. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
    if a player catches the ball that he’s supposed to catch..Yay.

    Great Chip, now tell me how you are determining if the player is SUPPOSED to catch it or not. Thanks

    ———————

    Fast players get to more balls than slow players. So if you’re fast you should be able to catch more balls than someone who is slow…

    More to the point, the last thing we need is another made up metric.

  15. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    LGY December 13th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
    But, could FieldFX predict that Edgar Renteria would hit a huge HR in the WS? If not, then who needs it??? Billy Beane is ruining baseball!!!

    /Chip’d

    ——————————-

    My thing is, if you need a new metric every year to fix the metric that came out the year before, then how accurate is it really?

  16. blake December 13th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    If I’m Lee then I’m making the Phillies pay more than anybody before I come back there after they banished me to Seattle in favor of Roy Halladay.

  17. Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    More to the point, the last thing we need is another made up metric.

    Field/FX would likely replace every defensive metric with one that actually makes sense. And we’d be able to put things such as Player Routes on a number system.

    It can also be used to record every component of a stolen base. Lead amount, jump, pitcher release time, and catcher pop time.

    It is a revolutionary tool which will finally give everyone the most accurate data possible on things that right now people like you and GB7 just simply make up from whatever stupid point you’re trying to argue.

  18. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
    The best thing is, Field and Player FX are based on pictures taken of the position of everything on the field 15 times a second, which might make it the first stat which cannot be argued with ‘watch the game’, because the stat itself watches every game at a better rate than humans.

    —————————-

    I’m going to stick with: I don’t care.

  19. Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    Fast players get to more balls than slow players.

    The fast player is a terrible route runner and can’t read the flight of the ball. The slow player takes direct routes.

    WHAT NOW CHIP?

  20. Bronx Jeers December 13th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    Way off-topic but US airlines have collected 4.3 billion$$ in baggage/ticket change fees in 2010.

    Not too shabby.

  21. DaSaint007 December 13th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    Chip,

    Re: Catching – Responded to you in prior thread.

    On the pitching front, I will not be surprised if Joba is included in any major trade package. Otherwise, if not, I hope he can rebound to be a strong – and reliable – 7th or 8th inning option. Last year doesn’t leave much hope for that however.

    As far as Wang is concerned, I posted a couple years ago that the Yankees would never give Wang a high-value, long term contract. He’s just not their type of swing-and-miss pitcher which they favor. His injury was fortuitous for them in that they never had to deal with his value as a perennial 20-game or near-20 game winner. Can you imagine what he would have commanded had he continued his success for a 3rd straight year?

    No, he was destined to be traded.

  22. Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    I’m going to stick with: I don’t care.

    Great then stop talking about it. I think its safe to say that no one cares what your opinion on a baseball data revolution is. Stick to dumb trades, its your forte. Let the more well rounded posters handle everything else.

  23. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
    More to the point, the last thing we need is another made up metric.

    Field/FX would likely replace every defensive metric with one that actually makes sense. And we’d be able to put things such as Player Routes on a number system.

    It can also be used to record every component of a stolen base. Lead amount, jump, pitcher release time, and catcher pop time.

    It is a revolutionary tool which will finally give everyone the most accurate data possible on things that right now people like you and GB7 just simply make up from whatever stupid point you’re trying to argue.

    —————

    You’re a revolutionary tool

  24. Tom in N.J. December 13th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    “The fast player is a terrible route runner and can’t read the flight of the ball. The slow player takes direct routes.

    WHAT NOW CHIP?”

    Trade him for Ryan Church!?

  25. LGY December 13th, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    Can you imagine some hotshot Billy Beanite GM coming down to Joe Torre and telling him that Bernie Williams stinks in CF because of their FieldFX data!?! :mad:

    Damn you BILLY BEANE!!! :mad:

    /Chip’d

    Disclaimer: Billy Beane has nothing to do with FieldFX.

  26. LGY December 13th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    “My thing is, if you need a new metric every year to fix the metric that came out the year before, then how accurate is it really?”

    ———————

    Couldn’t you say the same thing about everything in life?

  27. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 3:30 pm
    I’m going to stick with: I don’t care.

    Great then stop talking about it. I think its safe to say that no one cares what your opinion on a baseball data revolution is. Stick to dumb trades, its your forte. Let the more well rounded posters handle everything else.

    ———-

    Tremendous argument…I applaud you for your well rounded point of view.

    I find it amusing, if not a little sad, that people like you who believe advanced metrics are the be all and end all for baseball are so scared that you simply discredit anyone who doesn’t think the way you do.

    You’re like these nutcases who tell you that if you don’t believe in Jesus you’re going to he!! Why does it bother you so much if people have different ways of appreciating the game?

  28. LGY December 13th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    “Fast players get to more balls than slow players.”

    —————–

    Ok, sometimes.

    But what separates fast players from other fast players?

    How many more or less balls does Gardner get to than Granderson or Ellsbury or Crawford?

    Are you saying the faster you are the better defender you are?

  29. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    DaSaint007 December 13th, 2010 at 3:30 pm
    Chip,

    Re: Catching – Responded to you in prior thread.

    On the pitching front, I will not be surprised if Joba is included in any major trade package. Otherwise, if not, I hope he can rebound to be a strong – and reliable – 7th or 8th inning option. Last year doesn’t leave much hope for that however.

    ——————–

    My thing is that I don’t think Joba can be included in a major trade package – he doesn’t have the value to bring back anything great on his own nor is he someone you want to include as a throw in.

    I could see the Yankees doing a deal where they send Joba somewhere for a Joba-esque player – a guy in need of a change of scenary on another team. I have no idea who that player is; but that’s the sort of future I see for him.

  30. RSM December 13th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Wouldn’t it just be mindblowing if the “Mystery Team” was the Pirates?

  31. Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    I find it amusing, if not a little sad, that people like you who believe advanced metrics are the be all and end all for baseball are so scared that you simply discredit anyone who doesn’t think the way you do.

    You’re like these nutcases who tell you that if you don’t believe in Jesus you’re going to he!! Why does it bother you so much if people have different ways of appreciating the game?

    Your entire point is that it is stupid and you don’t care. So why even talk about it? If you’re going to antagonize new ideas then you’re going to get stomped on. I am in no way telling you how to enjoy the game. But you’re telling me that a system of measurement which will accurately describe all the events going on the field is a ‘made up metric’ and useless or stupid or not needed?

    You’re really more like the repressed religious nutcase. I’m arguing for science.

    I never addressed any of my previous links to you. I merely posted them because I just found them and they were interesting and I’ve brought up the systems before. You immediately respond with some antagonistic crap to show how ‘old school’ you are or whatever.

    You’re not really appreciating the game right now are you? Or in talking about how a player plays the game? You’re not watching a game right now. You’re not appreciating anything. How is coming up with a bunch of trade proposals that are retarded ‘appreciating’ the game? If you want to debate the merits of players, then you need information to go on.

    And if you really don’t care about it, then steer clear of it and keep your ‘world is flat’ baseball opinions to yourself.

  32. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Where does Billy Beane keep all those World Series trophies?

  33. RSM December 13th, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    CC, Hughes, AJ, Nova, Joba.
    Not an ideal rotation, but I’d go to war with it.

  34. LGY December 13th, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Chip,

    Do you find it useful that we can access information that tells us what pitch that is thrown, the velocity, movement, location, etc.?

  35. LGY December 13th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    “Where does Billy Beane keep all those World Series trophies?”

    —————

    I am assuming this was a response to me since I am the only who has mentioned Billy Beane, but I have no idea what it means or is a response to?

  36. blake December 13th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    sabermetric debates are so winter 2009

  37. Carlo December 13th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    RSM – you can go to war with it……but i dont think you’re going to like the result of the war. I personally would rather go to war with a bit more weapons.

  38. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Was a joke.

  39. upstate kate December 13th, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    as are the Joba as starter or to the bullpen debates

  40. LGY December 13th, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    “Was a joke.”

    ——

    Oh, my bad. I just wasn’t sure if I was supposed to respond to that.

  41. Howe Farr December 13th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    Can we vote on who won the argument between Jerkface and Chip?

    We are the jury, they presented their cases, now its time to vote on who won….

  42. LGY December 13th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    Is it a sabermetric debate if we are just making fun of Chip or is it just a making fun of Chip discussion?

    Something to ponder.

  43. LGY December 13th, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    If some scrub outfielder gets released and goes unnoticed by Chip, did the player really get released?

    Something else to ponder.

  44. blake December 13th, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    I don’t know who won. I need a few days to decide….there could be a mystery arguer involved, stay tuned.

  45. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
    I find it amusing, if not a little sad, that people like you who believe advanced metrics are the be all and end all for baseball are so scared that you simply discredit anyone who doesn’t think the way you do.

    You’re like these nutcases who tell you that if you don’t believe in Jesus you’re going to he!! Why does it bother you so much if people have different ways of appreciating the game?

    Your entire point is that it is stupid and you don’t care. So why even talk about it? If you’re going to antagonize new ideas then you’re going to get stomped on. I am in no way telling you how to enjoy the game. But you’re telling me that a system of measurement which will accurately describe all the events going on the field is a ‘made up metric’ and useless or stupid or not needed?

    You’re really more like the repressed religious nutcase. I’m arguing for science.

    I never addressed any of my previous links to you. I merely posted them because I just found them and they were interesting and I’ve brought up the systems before. You immediately respond with some antagonistic crap to show how ‘old school’ you are or whatever.

    You’re not really appreciating the game right now are you? Or in talking about how a player plays the game? You’re not watching a game right now. You’re not appreciating anything. How is coming up with a bunch of trade proposals that are retarded ‘appreciating’ the game? If you want to debate the merits of players, then you need information to go on.

    And if you really don’t care about it, then steer clear of it and keep your ‘world is flat’ baseball opinions to yourself.

    —————————

    The difference between us is I don’t care if you want to enjoy a game through the use of advanced metrics or not – you on the other hand seem to be offended when someone like me says that they don’t care for them.

    I don’t get that at all.

  46. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    LGY December 13th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
    Chip,

    Do you find it useful that we can access information that tells us what pitch that is thrown, the velocity, movement, location, etc.?

    —————————

    Not especially since the same tech that does that also would lead us to believe that lots of pitchers can throw 100mph when we all know that’s false and that the guns are dialed up to get oohs and ahhs from the crowd.

  47. Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Here is what you posted, which is definitely not ‘I don’t care for this new thing’. It is an active defense against this new metric:

    “My thing is, if you need a new metric every year to fix the metric that came out the year before, then how accurate is it really?”

    “Fast players get to more balls than slow players. So if you’re fast you should be able to catch more balls than someone who is slow…

    More to the point, the last thing we need is another made up metric.”

    I don’t care how you enjoy a baseball game, but when you are going to try and argue the merits of baseball players on a blog you need to bring more to the table.

  48. LGY December 13th, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    “Not especially since the same tech that does that also would lead us to believe that lots of pitchers can throw 100mph when we all know that’s false and that the guns are dialed up to get oohs and ahhs from the crowd.”

    ——————–

    I’m talking about PitchFX, not a radar gun.

    A radar gun can’t tell you how a ball moved or it’s location or whatever.

  49. DaSaint007 December 13th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Here we go again…

    Option #1: CC, Lee, Hughes, AJ, Pettitte
    Option #2: CC, Lee, Hughes, AJ, Nova
    Option #3: CC, Hughes, AJ, Pettitte, Nova
    Option #4: CC, Hughes, AJ, VETERAN PITCHER, Nova

    I’m ok with Options 1-3. Option #4 requires Cashman’s vaunted Plan B.

  50. Robin December 13th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    still waiting for the white smoke to rise from the Vatican

  51. Carlo December 13th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    @ Saint – I’ll take option 1, anything less would be uncivilized.

  52. RayVT December 13th, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    DaSaint007 December 13th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    I agree with your options only I’d like to see Joba listed instead of Nova. Let Nova & Mitre be long guys in BP & BU SP.

  53. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
    Here is what you posted, which is definitely not ‘I don’t care for this new thing’. It is an active defense against this new metric:

    “My thing is, if you need a new metric every year to fix the metric that came out the year before, then how accurate is it really?”

    “Fast players get to more balls than slow players. So if you’re fast you should be able to catch more balls than someone who is slow…

    More to the point, the last thing we need is another made up metric.”

    I don’t care how you enjoy a baseball game, but when you are going to try and argue the merits of baseball players on a blog you need to bring more to the table.

    ——————-

    You’re right – I was snippy and I’m sorry.

    However you have regularly been insulting to those of us who chose and continue to choose to not use the newest metrics…almost as if it is some sort of dogma and that disbelievers should be marginalized.

    As in You’re not really appreciating the game right now are you? Or in talking about how a player plays the game? You’re not watching a game right now. You’re not appreciating anything. How is coming up with a bunch of trade proposals that are retarded ‘appreciating’ the game? If you want to debate the merits of players, then you need information to go on.

    And if you really don’t care about it, then steer clear of it and keep your ‘world is flat’ baseball opinions to yourself

    So if that’s how you’re going to continue to treat me and others who don’t want to bother with your metrics then I will continue to mock you as a giant pimple on the buttocks of the world.

  54. LGY December 13th, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    I’m about to blow up the Texas being close convenience argument :mad:

    Right now in Little Rock, Arkansas it is 3:01 PM. As everyone knows it is 4:01 PM.

    Everytime Mr. Lee hops on that private jet he is gaining an hour in the day.

    BOOM!

  55. Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    Apology accepted, don’t let it happen again.

  56. LGY December 13th, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    But he loses an hour on the way back :(

  57. Gary December 13th, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Gone all afternoon, thought there would be something. Seems to suggest nothing again today, I guess there is always tomm.

  58. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Trade proposal:

    Met Blog gets: Jerkface
    This Blog gets: use of additional HTML codes.

  59. Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    “Can’t have it both ways – can’t say this is a difficult decision I need to take it slowly and at the same time leak rumors about the “mystery team.”

    Yes, they can. Also, you have no conclusive evidence that they are leaking a mystery team.

    “Cliff Lee still believes or is at least uncertain if he’s gotten every dollar he can. So the wait will go on until he feels he’s gotten every dollar.”

    There is nothing wrong with that.

  60. Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    Jerkface posts the right way, can’t trade him. Valuable clubhouse leadership, keeps the trolls in line.

    HTML codes when you break it down are nothing but numbers in a computer, Chip hates numbers.

  61. upstate kate December 13th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    can’t trade Jerkface, he has intangibles :)

  62. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Yeah but HTML codes don’t require numbers…I win, you lose, transmission ends.

  63. Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Without me this blog would not have grown the way it did, I need to be fairly compensated for my past contributions with some sort of future payment.

  64. spidanyc December 13th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    We need to trade for Zack Greinke, Andre Ethier, Kuo, Broxton and Justin Upton.

    Trade Posada and Burnett for nothing. Who knows, maybe a team can take both of these guys off our hands.

    CF – Gardner
    RF – Upton
    2B – Cano
    3B – Arod
    1B – Tex
    DH – Montero
    LF – Ethier
    SS – Jeter
    C – Romine

    SP – CC
    SP – Greinke
    SP – Lee
    SP – Hughes
    SP – Banuelos/Betances or Wang

    Who wouldn’t want that? We get younger and better defensively in the outfield as well as catcher and DH. When AROD needs a day to DH, Montero starts at catcher.

    The rotations gets younger and deeper as well. Lee would be the oldest at 32 and why not give one of the B’s a shot as the 5th starter.

    Bullpen – Mo, Broxton, Kuo, Joba, Aceves, Feliciano and Robertson

    Bring on the negative comments!

  65. icebird753 December 13th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Uh, Chad, you left off Phil Hughes

  66. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Does Joba Chamberlain have a prayer here at this point? I don’t see him making it to ST in pinstripes. Either he will be traded or the uniform simply won’t fit.

    JackCurryYES

    Check out Hot Stove show at 630 with me and @BobLorenz. We interview Larry Rothschild. We taped it so can tell u he talks Lee, AJ and Joba
    4 minutes ago via Mobile Web

  67. Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    Sorry Chip, everything in a computer is eventually numbers. It all boils down to binary. In between you’ve got HEX and more.

  68. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    ackCurryYES

    One Rothschild tidbit from our Hot Stove interview. If Yanks signed Lee, he’d think about splitting them up in rotation. Better for bullpen
    2 minutes ago via Mobile Web

  69. Lori December 13th, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    BTW – Congrats to Swish
    http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20448999,00.html

    Maybe he should have invited Cliff to the party . . .

  70. upstate kate December 13th, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    Jerkface
    but should you be overpaid, or paid what you would get if we compared you to a similar blogger for another team? maybe you should test the market!

  71. Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    I am baffled that you would tell me to test the market, I’m an icon :x

  72. Carl December 13th, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    # Lori December 13th, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    BTW – Congrats to Swish
    http://www.people.com/people/a…..99,00.html

    Maybe he should have invited Cliff to the party . . .

    Joba needs to work out with A-Rod.

  73. PittsburghYankeeFan December 13th, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    Probably been posted, but Cashman has a pretty good perspective on the whole thing in this Wallace Matthews article..

    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-.....id=5914684

    I still think its about the $$$$. Texas and the Phillies are balking, and the Yankees have the highest bid, unlike previous years, they are not bidding against themselves…

    If they don’t get him, it’s not the end of the world, but he’d be a fool not to come to NY.

  74. upstate kate December 13th, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    maybe we should put some incentives in there

  75. upstate kate December 13th, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    I meant incentives to keep Jerkface of course, not for Lee

  76. 108 stitches December 13th, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Larry Rothschild will say on Hot Stove that he’s anxious to work with Chamberlain but wait until ST when he sees an out of shape stubborn pitcher.

    I’d like to see a sleeper like Hector Noesi make the team out of ST as a No. 5 starter.

  77. Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    If Lee wants incentives I promise to use only the finest metrics in describing how awesome he would be on the Yankees

  78. Doreen December 13th, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    Bret the Hitman -

    Thanks for the heads up on Yankees Hot Stove, but more importantly, congratulations to you! It’s exciting to be able to pursue your passion.

    *****
    Gone all day. Really thought there’d be something today. Oh, well. :(

  79. joeman December 13th, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    Lee sign with Texas yet ?

  80. upstate kate December 13th, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    use those sabermetrics for the good, not for the dark side

  81. Erica in NY December 13th, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    I am starting to wonder if Cliff Lee really even exists

  82. joeman December 13th, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    # Erica in NY December 13th, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    I am starting to wonder if Cliff Lee really even exists
    ——————————————————————-
    well someone by that name beat the Yankees a few times

  83. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    Doreen,

    Thank you so much!!!

    I really can’t wait to be an RD :)

  84. Tom in N.J. December 13th, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    Jason Stark tweeting that the Phillies could be the mystery team in on Lee…

  85. blake December 13th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    The Phillies may be interested but if Im Cliff Lee then Im giving them zero discounts…..actually Im making them pay more than anyone else before Im going back there.

  86. Doreen December 13th, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    You know, Lee has two healthy offers on the table. Why on earth is he shopping them around? I don’t believe there’s a third team. Just don’t.

  87. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    I don’t think the Phillies could afford to pay Lee, Halladay and Oswalt – not with what they’re paying Howard, Utley and J-Roll…yes they’re not paying Werth anymore but he wasn’t making a fortune with Philly.

  88. blake December 13th, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Doreen,

    I don’t think.there is a serious 3rd team….the fact that its out there would indicate that someone is still trying to get leverage.

  89. joeman December 13th, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    could the 3rd team be the Red Sox

  90. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    I’m pretty sure that at one point or another every team has been mentioned as being the mystery team.

  91. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    blake -

    Kevin Millar (of all people) debunked the Mystery Team by asking Heyman who he got this tip from, Heyman said that his sources on the third team were in the Lee camp – Millar then laughed and said, “wait, so an agent told you that there’s some team he’s not ready to mention who is willing to pony up a ton of dough for his client, and you believed him?” Heyman let out an uncomfortable laugh and said, “I have to go with my sources”

  92. blake December 13th, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Chip,

    Pretty bad when Millar calls you out.

  93. Stoneburner December 13th, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    joeman December 13th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
    could the 3rd team be the Red Sox

    The fact that you do not know and are guessing undermines your previous statements that Lee is not going to sign with the Yankees – you are as clueless as the rest of us.

  94. blake December 13th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    “The fact that you do not know and are guessing undermines your previous statements that Lee is not going to sign with the Yankees – you are as clueless as the rest of us.”

    did you really think he did?

  95. joeman December 13th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    # Stoneburner December 13th, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    joeman December 13th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
    could the 3rd team be the Red Sox

    The fact that you do not know and are guessing undermines your previous statements that Lee is not going to sign with the Yankees – you are as clueless as the rest of us.
    ————————————————————————
    clueless for 3 weeks

  96. Carlo December 13th, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Joeman also had the deal being announced last night from his sources.

  97. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    Again – all this Mystery Team stuff goes back to a bunch of “insiders” feeling burned that they never saw the Werth to Washington deal happening. So now, while the prohibitive favorites for Lee are New York and Texas – they don’t want to be caught with their pants down again – so they’re throwing out the notion of a “mystery team” in case Lee signs somewhere else they can point to it and say “see, we told you there was another team in the mix.”

    I find it fascinating that we’re supposed to believe that these guys have the inside scoop yet it has been a week and not one of them can identify this mystery team – despite all their great sources. I would say it’s more embarassing than anything that these insiders aren’t inside enough to identify the third team by this point.

  98. joeman December 13th, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    # Carlo December 13th, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Joeman also had the deal being announced last night from his sources.
    ————————————–
    until that 3rd team got involved….

  99. clownthrowindown December 13th, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    SI_JonHeyman still hearing rumblings of 3rd team in lee mix. word is offer much lower than NYY’s, but it’s also a place lee loves
    2 minutes ago via Mobile Web

    The Astros lol?

  100. ac1 December 13th, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    i love it. all of a sudden lee’s agent calls cashman, then suddenly more talk of a 3rd team. At this point, i find myself caring a little less each day.

    At least with CC, it wasn’t a whole drama.

  101. joeman December 13th, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    # clownthrowindown December 13th, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    SI_JonHeyman still hearing rumblings of 3rd team in lee mix. word is offer much lower than NYY’s, but it’s also a place lee loves
    2 minutes ago via Mobile Web

    The Astros lol?
    —————————————-
    Cleve

  102. Chip December 13th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    At this point I would ask Heyman why it has been this long and he still can’t identify the third team.

  103. Erica in NY December 13th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Chip December 13th, 2010 at 4:45 pm
    I’m pretty sure that at one point or another every team has been mentioned as being the mystery team.

    ***********

    I do not believe the Pittsburgh Pirates were ever considered a contender

  104. Crawdaddy December 13th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Sounds like the Phillies

  105. Lori December 13th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    “A place Lee loves” – Is Arkansas getting a major league baseball team?

    Hate to say it, but I am gradually moving into the “who cares” camp. This is becoming “The Decision 2″ – to the point that anytime Lee loses, no matter where he goes, it will become headline news.

  106. tampayank December 13th, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    goodness imagine if Philly somehow pulled Lee

    but not likely :)

  107. Patrick December 13th, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    Jon Heyman is pathetic, enough said.

  108. pat December 13th, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    SI_JonHeyman still hearing rumblings of 3rd team in lee mix. word is offer much lower than NYY?s, but it?s also a place lee loves

    Much lower offer? hmmmm….. Arkansas Travelers? Now that would show proximity to home and not the money mean something. I would guess he could win league MVP year in and out too! :wink:

  109. Chase December 13th, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    It’s the Phillies. If he goes back to the team that traded him and said they “upgraded” like a lot of people on the team were quoted as saying, he looks pathetic.

    Lee clearly doesn’t want to come here. Ruben Amaro Jr. trying to look like a genius and build the best rotation.

  110. Captain Clutch December 13th, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    Arkansas has a baseball team? There is no way the Phillies are seriously involved. They already have Halladay, Oswalt, Hamels and a big payroll I am sure they are maxed out. At this point it’s just comical. Heyman a.k.a Lee’s agent is trying to come up with anything to try and get an extra nickel or dime.

  111. Giuseppe Franco December 13th, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    Clearly Sabathia didn’t want to come here either but he did. At least that’s what we were told time and time again two offseasons ago.

    People have no idea what Cliff Lee is thinking outside of the Lee household and his agent.

  112. Captain Clutch December 13th, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Cashman should give them a deadline. Like tomorrow at 5 pm. Lee already made up his mind it’s not like a deadline is going to change anything.

  113. JD December 13th, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Oh, now “he loves” Philly? It must be because they have such well behaved fans and Philly is so close to Arkansas. Oh wait.

  114. Stoneburner December 13th, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Yanks should just make a power play for Cliff Lee 2.0 – even though he is not currently available – John Danks. (1) Cashman has a good relationship with Kenny Williams, (2) Danks is two years away from FA AND has not signed an extension yet – hinting he will test the FA market and not chicken out like a Verlander or King Felix and sign a silly long term deal for the last two years of his arbitration and first two or three seasons of FA.

    Another thing – Danks is from central Texas – the Austin area I believe – he is sophisticated country – not deer hunting Arkansas country like Cliff Lee. There is a difference.

  115. Mike in Chicago December 13th, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    pat December 13th, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    SI_JonHeyman still hearing rumblings of 3rd team in lee mix. word is offer much lower than NYY?s, but it?s also a place lee loves

    ———-

    Sandals, Jamaica?

  116. raymagnetic December 13th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Since people actually believe what incarceratedbob says I’ve decided to start my own twitter account with rumors and sports news.

    Follow me on twitter.com/liberatedroc

  117. Stoneburner December 13th, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    Jim Gray: Cliff, have made your decision?

    Cliff Lee: Jim, I have. In the spring, I am taking my deer hunting to Philadelphia.

  118. RayVT December 13th, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    All they hype over Crawford & AGone to Red Sox may have provided the impetus for John Henry to sign Cliff Lee. The Red Sox would really be formidable then. They could trade Dice-K to an NL team & pickup part of his contract. They could also raise their ticket prices as well. It certainly would make the Yankees life difficult!

    Lester
    Lee
    Beckett
    Bucholtz
    Lackey

    Pappelbohn
    Baard

  119. Stoneburner December 13th, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    have you made your decision?

  120. tyanksfan36 December 13th, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    He is going to choose Tampa, last time here he beat the Rays twice and he loves beating the Yankees and we definitely see eachother enough. FL also has no state income tax. Or maybe he will go to the NL and make for warm Miami.

  121. Stoneburner December 13th, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    Kind of want Lee to take one of those one year Billy Beane contracts where he puts Lee back on the market for pieces – THEN we can start this whole thing over again in July – and have Lee become a FA again next year.

  122. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    Lee loved Philly. Could it be Philly?

  123. Stoneburner December 13th, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    One way or another – his contract should not include a no trade clause – that way the MLB owners can just trade him around – pass him around like a piece of meat – a commodity – he will never be settled anywhere – that is the Curse of being Cliff Lee – aka the Nomad.

  124. tampayank December 13th, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    my theory Lee wants to stay in Texas but the Players Union is trying to convince him to take the highest offer(Yanks)

  125. Bronx Jeers December 13th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Source: Lee mulling offer to work as bartender on cruise ship. Big “Love Boat” fan growing up. Loved Isaac. #ridiculoustweetwarehousedotcom

  126. pat December 13th, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    craigcalcaterra I kind of hope Lee does go to Philly. It’d be more hilarious to see them not make the World Series with four aces than it did with three.

  127. JK December 13th, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    I guarantee the Yankees offer is not 7 years @ 161M. I think the offer is must be much closer to 140M.

  128. jacksquat December 13th, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    @jcrasnick Which event happens first: 1) Cliff Lee signing; 2) Jason Bartlett trade announcement; 3) ***** Clark’s New Years Rockin’ Eve?

  129. Carlo December 13th, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    This third team is the single most ridiculous agent induced stretch I have ever witnessed. Have to assume the next attempt to extract more cash is “cliff lee pondering retirement”.

    For all of you who still have doubt….the constant media leaks with this nonsense should tell you one thing……cliff and derek are still trying to get more money……and cliff will be a yankee shortly.

    Think about it….if he wanted to go to texas, he would have done so…..texas isnt going to up their offer out of fear of a 3rd team because they will still be well below the Yankees offer….so it makes no sense for them to do so.

    The 3rd team agenda is geared solely to get the Yankees to throw in whatever else Brauneker thinks the yankees may be holding back.

  130. SAS December 13th, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    I am beginning to think that Lee is playing games, and I am not the least bit happy with him at the moment.

    I would love to see Cashman say “you have 24 hrs. take it or leave”, and put the ball back in our hands.

  131. jacksquat December 13th, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    Yanks should pull out, then maybe they won’t be ****ed with like this again.

  132. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    No one knows if there is a third team or not.

  133. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    The rumor is that the third team is offering much less money but it’s a place Lee loves. So that theory that a third team is an invention to drive up the price doesn’t hold water.

  134. Carlo December 13th, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    And by the way…..I am officially annoyed with this guy. I dont care what anyone says, it doesnt take this long to make a decision……he has had months to consider this….in september, everyone knew it would be the yankees and texas…..he could have made up his mind as to what it would take financially to go where over the last 2 months.

  135. The Cro December 13th, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    Believe it or not, I just heard that the Angels could be that “Mystery” 3rd Team!?!?

    I have one solid MLB Source who told me he just heard that for the first time earlier this afternoon.

    Anybody else hear something similar? different?

  136. JD December 13th, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    JK-
    I think you might be on to something. I was thinking the same thing. He wants CC money and he ain’t gotten that offer yet.

  137. Doreen December 13th, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    I’d like Cliff Lee, but at this point, whoever gets him can have him!

  138. Ruby Tuesday December 13th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    (1) As I have said all along, Cliffie Lee has signed with the T*x*s R*ng*rs .

    (2) Cliffie Lee will not announce his decision until beginning of February — right before catchers and pitchers must report for spring training 2011 .

  139. Ruby Tuesday December 13th, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    :(

  140. JD December 13th, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    WCYF-
    It does hold water because everyone laughed at the mystery team thing so they added and “he loves” the team. Truth is plenty of teams have or would bid for Lee but only Rangers and Yankees seem to be willing to give him ridiculous money/years. Lee wants more money and like JK said maybe they aren’t offering as much as has been reported.

  141. Carlo December 13th, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    WCest Coast – how does it not hold water? If team A was offering $150 mm and Team B was offering $120 mm and Team C was offering $80 mm………but he loved Team C…..would he love it as much if Team A went to $170 mm?

    Of course it holds water.

  142. Prete Funk Era December 13th, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    Ok it’s time to create a twitter hashtag, snarky cliff lee style. Ideas?

  143. pat December 13th, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    I’m fast approaching the $1M dollars a year should get knocked off the offer for each day that goes by between now and when he signs somewhere.

    Now that would make the menu of options more interesting to choose from.

    Would like to see him signed but can’t miss what you never had.

  144. Ruby Tuesday December 13th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    The Official Cliffie Lee Count Down

    59 Days until Cliffie Lee announces his signing with the T*x*s R*ng*rs .

  145. Ruby Tuesday December 13th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    :cry:

  146. JD December 13th, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    Now it appears a second mystery team has emerged. They are offering much less also but their jerseys are said to be Cliff Lee’s favorite color.

  147. jacksquat December 13th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    Please Cashman, find another deal for a pitcher that does not involve Montero (or Hughes) and pull out of this fiasco.

  148. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    Carlo – its known the third team is offering less and Cashman has said hes not raising his offer. That’s not going to influence Cashman to do so IMO.

  149. Lori December 13th, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    I sure hope Cashman’s day was more productive than mine was, watching and waiting for this saga to end. Hopefully he was starting to move forward with Plan B (or C or D) and isn’t waiting until Lee goes to Texas to move forward. Then, if Lee comes here, great – but at least we won’t get caught with our pants down.

  150. 108 stitches December 13th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    The rumblings Jon Heyman hears are the marbles shifting from side to side in his skull when he turns his head.
    The 3rd team is a figment of Braunecker’s imagination and Cashman won’t bite.

  151. Prete Funk Era December 13th, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    if your in a bad mood about lee. Mess with @JoseCanseco . Guy is always out of his mind and fun to mess with.

  152. JD December 13th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Cash said he wouldn’t resign A-Rod if he opted out too. You never know when/if Hank or Hal will overide him. It might not hurt to try and that is what Lee’s camp is doing IMO.

  153. JD December 13th, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    Is Canseco still living in someone’s garage?

  154. Prete Funk Era December 13th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    Canseco is plotting his mighty return to the MLB ;)

  155. Gary December 13th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    They aren’t even talking about it on TV anymore. Having more fun showing endlessly the rip in the roof and the trip by the Jets coach.

    How about the rip and the slip chronicles

  156. CompassRosy December 13th, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 13th, 2010 at 8:55 am
    ?Over the past three years Cliff Lee has been out pitching CC Sabathia?

    Hell if I got to pitch out of the AL Central or AL West, I?d out pitch CC too!

    :::::::::::::::::::::

    Sis ~
    Sorry, saw your posts this morning, but wasn’t able to respond till now…

    Welcome back, btw :-)

    As for the strengths and weaknesses of the various divisions…
    it’s somewhat interesting to note that Cliff actually has a slightly better career record and ERA vs. +.500 teams (47-38 / 3.67) than does CC (55-57 / 3.99) (albeit fewer games). Not that record and ERA are the end-all be-all, but it wouldn’t be a stretch to think that Cliff can hang with the “big bad boys of the east” considering how he has performed thus far in his career vs. good teams.

    Besides, CC has done OK in NY, and he came from the lowly ALC too ;-)

    Anyhoo, ‘t would be nice if Cliff decides soon so everyone can get on with their business but, I can’t blame him for taking as long as he feels necessary to ensure he makes the right decision for himself and his family. After all, unless he blossoms into another Jamie Moyer, this is likely his final MLB contract…

  157. 38HotDogs December 13th, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    I wish the Yankees would yank their offer – it is obviously being used to get more more out of Texas or Philly or Cliffie would have accepted their offer. That being said, Cashman better have a trade lined up that he can announce shortly after


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