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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


What to make of Rivera and Boston

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 13, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

ALCS Rangers Yankees BaseballFor that generally unbearable two or three weeks of back and forth between the Yankees front office and Derek Jeter’s representation, a large part of the Yankees fan base seemed to turn on Jeter, labeling him as a greedy, ungrateful prima donna. How dare he try to negotiate the largest contract possible? I got more than one email suggesting Jeter could learn a thing or two from Mariano Rivera, who so quietly settled on a two-year deal to return as the Yankees closer, reportedly shunning an offer from the rival Red Sox.

Now here’s a report that it was Rivera’s camp that approached the Red Sox — not the other way around — about an offer to bring the great Yankees closer to Boston. Pretty good negotiating strategy if you ask me, and apparently an effective one.

But what to make of Rivera’s use of the Red Sox to create leverage?

My advice? Make nothing of it.

If you want to root for these people as baseball players, that’s great. If you want to appreciate them as people, even better. In this game, it’s hard to find better examples of players who so perfectly blend Hall of Fame talent with general decency than Jeter and Rivera.

Contract negotiations, though, are something completely different. To borrow a word from Hal Steinbrenner, they tend to get “messy,” and there are forces involved well beyond the players themselves.

“When they’re on the field, that’s when it’s at their best,” Brian Cashman said during Jeter’s press conference last week. “When they’re at the negotiating table, it’s a different arena. It’s a different type of game than the one they’re used to playing on the field. That’s why it’s a good thing there are agents in between.”

Associated Press photo

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340 Responses to “What to make of Rivera and Boston”

  1. The Other Phil December 13th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    Non story, but interesting nonetheless.

  2. Carl December 13th, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    weei? Pass

  3. JK December 13th, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    slow day ehhhhh

  4. Gary December 13th, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Even PTI isn’t talking about Lee, at least not yet

  5. DaSaint007 December 13th, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    Business is business. His agent did his job.
    Welcome back Mo.

  6. DaSaint007 December 13th, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    The White Sox have a pretty deep rotation currently, and according to some reports, may be looking for some financial and/or roster relief.

    Marke Burhle or Edwin Jackson could be available.
    Burhle is a seasoned veteran and has good stuff, and is in the last year of his contract and is making $14M. Salary dump anyone?

    Jackson is cheaper and younger, so Kenny Williams would probably want to hold on to him, but he could fit as a #4 or #5 starter.

    Two tiers of options….just in case.

  7. Gary December 13th, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    Farve streak is over, Inactive tonight

  8. RSM December 13th, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    “The 3rd team agenda is geared solely to get the Yankees to throw in whatever else Brauneker thinks the yankees may be holding back.”

    Have to agree.
    Carlo gets a prize!

  9. Jacques Strappe December 13th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Using an arch rival for leverage to get a better contract? I would expect it from anyone. No harm, no foul.

    Jeter should have done that if he didn’t. And given the structure of his buyout year, I fully expect Jeter to do so in 3 years time. Not 4 … 3.

  10. Yogi Mantle December 13th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    I don’t think Favre’s streak record will be broken. Its a shame in some ways, but he has nothing to be ashamed of.

  11. mick December 13th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    Any chance they announce the Lee signing in 1/2 hour on Yankee Hot Stove?

  12. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    Particularly well written story Chad. Thanks.

  13. upstate kate December 13th, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    doubt there is any decision tonight, as there are other sports stories…Favre’s streak, Giants/Vikings playing in Detroit, Heat going for their 9th in a row,etc.

  14. Jacques Strappe December 13th, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    Hey, Maybe Cliff Lee is planning a LeBron type announcement hosted by Jim Gray and co-hosted by Peter Rose & Chad Curtis.

    Yeah right. Not sure which is more absurd … my even joking that Lee would pull a stunt like that, or the cast of characters I suggest.

  15. joeman December 13th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    while they are waiting how about making a move on Grant Balfour

  16. ac1 December 13th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    jeter will end his career with the yankees, whether it is 3 years, 4, or 6. I just hope next time his contract comes up, he is more realistic for the good of the team.

  17. Jacques Strappe December 13th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Let’s see how Jeter performs in the next 3 years, ac1. He’ll go out get a bid, and if he’s still got what it takes I hope he’ll see if NY will match it.

  18. 86w183 December 13th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Actually Manning needs about 6 years to break Favre’s streak. It’s not nearly as safe as you might think especially with his quick release and ability to avoid most direct hits

  19. Prete Funk Era December 13th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    “@JoseCanseco Sandy alderson please give me a chance to play first base ,even just a tryout”

    BWahahahahahahahahahaha

  20. Gary December 13th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Glad Brett won it all on the big stage, too many great players never won it all and they regreted that long after they hung up the spikes/cleats/sneaks

  21. Gary December 13th, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    Farve 44 miles of completed passes

  22. Howe Farr December 13th, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    a day when chad curtis’s name gets mentioned on the blog is a good day

  23. Phranchise December 13th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    It is pretty convienent that Mo’s agent apparently contacted them so it doesn’t seem as if they were trying to get rid of Papelbon. But if they had no intention on obtaining Mo why bid on him? From Rivera’s standpoint the Yankees have dealt with him before. It’s apparent he wants to be a Yankee but he always wants top dollar. Since he produces and still has massive leverage he does get paid. There never is an issue with shopping around. I would have been shocked if he actually went though. This is purely the local red sox spin to try and keep guys happy.

  24. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    Jim Gray used to live down the street from me, I’d boo him from my balcony when he walked by, he would laugh.

  25. jackamir December 13th, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    Godzilla signs with the A’s. Sushi by the tons…

  26. ac1 December 13th, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    hope the Yankees take their chance on Rich Harden. (5th starter or 8th inning). Worth it if they can get him for 5 M or so…

  27. Yogi Mantle December 13th, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    While Manning is 6 years away, its hard to believe that Manning will play till he is 40. Being that Payton is now 34, and still playing great, 6 years is a long time in “football years”. One never knows, but even Favre had been talking about retiring for a while now. He also seemed pretty close to ending after last season.

    That is a long time to be playing football.

  28. Jacques Strappe December 13th, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    WCYF, did you thank him for raising the value of your home after he moved away?

    Jackamir … A’s sushi party confirmed? Good for Oakland. Gotta wish that guy all the best.

  29. Carl December 13th, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    Cash should throw in free NYY Steak for life for Clifton Phifer Lee.

  30. Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 6:21 pm

    Carl,

    Thats a dangerous move. His wife might eat that revenue stream dry.

  31. Yogi Mantle December 13th, 2010 at 6:21 pm

    Kind of sad thinking of this probably being the end of the Favre era. For all the antics and soap opera stuff with retire, stay, retire, stay, he has been fun to watch.

  32. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    Jacques Strappe – LOL

  33. RMS December 13th, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    Everything stops while Cashman is waiting for Lee’s decision?
    How about another left-hander for the pen, or are all the good ones gone?
    Bench players? Any decisions yet?

  34. Carlo December 13th, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    “Phranchise December 13th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    It is pretty convienent that Mo’s agent apparently contacted them so it doesn’t seem as if they were trying to get rid of Papelbon. ”

    This is how a thoughtful/logical fan of baseball interprets stories like this. Well done Phranchise. Tip of the cap to you.

  35. Carl December 13th, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    # Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 6:21 pm

    Carl,

    Thats a dangerous move. His wife might eat that revenue stream dry.

    lol

  36. Carlo December 13th, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    Its crazy how so many other players who have gotten offers from considerably more than two teams made their decisions in much less time.

  37. Kelvin December 13th, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    MLB network says Yanks reaching agreement with Russel Martin

  38. Carlo December 13th, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    Kelvin – that all they said? any parameters that add legitimacy to it or pure speculation?

  39. ac1 December 13th, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    mlb needs to get their facts right. montero has NOT been in every trade. jsut halladay and lee.

  40. Yogi Mantle December 13th, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    Its hard to say if the story is true or not regarding Mo’s agents going to Boston to get them involved. It just seems a bit odd, unless it was something to tweak Boston and their soon to be gone closer.

    When it comes from a Boston source you kind of scratch your head a bit and wonder if this is spin or true. Either way he would never have ended up in Boston.

  41. ac1 December 13th, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    carlo, they just said that they are close to a deal.

  42. Kelvin December 13th, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    No idea just Harold Reynolds with the guys mentioning it right now

  43. Carlo December 13th, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    Thanks ac…..sounds like they have nothing more then they or anyone else did this afternoon.

  44. Kelvin December 13th, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    There downplaying Jesus abilities. Sure he might struggle but he’s a top prospect he won’t bust how they made it seem lol.

  45. Carlo December 13th, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    Of course any chance to take shots at the yankees will be used…..and frankly, getting a free agent catcher when your prize prospect is a catcher who is going to get big league time this year allows for that.

  46. pat December 13th, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    TylerKepner Cashman on Lee: ?They have not made any decision, same as yesterday… He?s got a life decision to make, and he?ll make one here someday.”

  47. Yogi Mantle December 13th, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    So Montero is a bust in the majors? Cool. I’m sorry I missed the all those games he played so far in the majors, must have been sleeping or something. :roll:

  48. Bad Scooter December 13th, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Lee can’t announce tomorrow where he’s going. The 76ers are going for their second straight win. Give me a break with this stuff. Lee isn’t waiting for the NFL to end or anything else. It’ll leak soon enough and it doesn’t matter what else is going in the sports world. Why would MLB care about the NFL? The NFL is king in the ratings anyhow. Any pub for MLB is good and they could care less if it was on a football Sunday or during MNF. Geesh.

  49. ac1 December 13th, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Montero is 20 years old. He will be fine and will still play this year.

  50. Yogi Mantle December 13th, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    Its too bad the press don’t start calling Lee and his agent every ten minutes, like a tag team, asking did he decide yet?

    After a couple of hours of that Lee might just decide and announce it to stop the calls. lol.

    This is beginning to feel as long as Bret Favre’s start streak! ;)

  51. raymagnetic December 13th, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    @PreteFunk,

    Thanks for the follow. If anyone else wants to follow me on Twitter it’s

    http://twitter.com/#!/LiberatedRoc

  52. Warning Track Power December 13th, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    Good for Mo. Obviously his agent has earned his/her money with the latest contact.
    I love the Yankees, but have no problem with the reports that Mo’s people may have contacted the sox about a contract.

    Is Mo wearing pinstripes next season?
    Thank You!!

  53. Tom in N.J. December 13th, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    The last time Brett Farve missed a start was in 1992. Crazy.

  54. Prete Funk Era December 13th, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    @raymagnetic – No prob.

  55. RayVT December 13th, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    LOL! Montero a bust! LOL! The RSox had the 10th best AL SP in 2010 & the 12th best BP, yet they are contenders because they signed AGone & Crawford to replace V-Mart & Beltre. Of course all the injured guys will come back too but that will hardly help their pitching!

    The Yanks lost Vasquez from the starting rotation. Plus all their injured players are back as well. Andy will probably come back too, but somehow the Yankees are losers already! Anyone who replaces Vasquez is going to do better than he did in 2010.

    To me the Yanks are still ahead in 2011 over the Red Sox & even the Rays as they had heavy losses.

  56. YankFanCA December 13th, 2010 at 6:59 pm

    Rivera and Jeter resigning won’t even matter if they don’t get Lee. Jeez, I don’t even want to imagine the season if they lose out on Lee. Catcher won’t matter either if the pitching’s
    what it is right now.

  57. randy l. December 13th, 2010 at 7:03 pm

    ” I got more than one email suggesting Jeter could learn a thing or two from Mariano Rivera”

    it goes without saying that jeter should have went to the red sox first to let them know he was available the way mariano did.

    saying he didn’t want any offers from any other teams was not a good negotiating move.

    jetter should have used his approach in meeting women .

    play hard to get and be derek jeter.

  58. tyanksfan36 December 13th, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    I was talking with my dad about baseball and the state of both our teams. I told him yeah the rays lost 2 key players but their rotation is set, their bullpen is lacking considerably but they have 5+ legit starters. Its pretty pathetic that the team with the highest payroll has only 3 starters and a guy from triple A as their rotation. If we don’t sign Lee I’m in the “don’t trade Montero” camp. They can’t get rid of 2 top prospects in consecutive years.

  59. Doreen December 13th, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    Jack Curry is the best.

  60. randy l. December 13th, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    “MLB network says Yanks reaching agreement with Russel Martin”

    i don’t think they said that.

    i think they said the yankees might get him.

  61. SAS December 13th, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    YankFanCA,

    As a Yankee’s fan for about 60 years….I truly question your loyalty to the team. If they don’t get Lee, life will go on at the Stadium, and there will be pitchers and catchers, etc. Frankly, I am so tired of all this, I don’t care anymore.

    If Lee really wants to be a Yankee, he should step up to the plate. Otherwise, let’s get on with putting together the best team possible.

  62. coney1 December 13th, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....no_ea.html

    Cliff Lee is officially a D-bag

  63. Bronx Jeers December 13th, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    Ledger_Yankees

    Appears that the Yankees have inquired about bringing back a member of it’s 2009 World Series team: Jerry Hairston Jr.

  64. blake December 13th, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    Congrats to Brett Favre. Say what you want about him but that streak was incredible….right up there with Ripken as one of the most amazing feats in all of sports. Aside from everything that’s happened the last couple years, I’ve always loved watching him play and we may have for the last time…..

  65. Benny Blanco December 13th, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    Doreen,

    I think Jack Curry does a fantastic job!

  66. YankFanCA December 13th, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    tyanks — I totally agree with you. It is pretty pathetic. No Lee = probably no playoffs = approx. 85 wins = lots of games with scores like 8 – 6 and 10 – 9 = a long season

  67. SAS December 13th, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    Doreen,

    Agree about Curry, but did he say something interesting?

  68. randy l. December 13th, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    i like harold reynolds, but i don’t think he’s seen montero swing the bat.

    there are some hitters that other players stop to watch swing.

    i think montero is that kind of guy.

    i predict harold reynolds will change his mind when he actually sees him.

  69. GMAN December 13th, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    Pete Abe… What the heck are you doing on this blog?

  70. Bronx Jeers December 13th, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    For a quick second I thought Lee was signing with Arizona

    A D-back.

  71. blake December 13th, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    I like Harold too but I’m not sure he does the most research before shows….I think he just gets on there and talks for the most part.

  72. Pat M. December 13th, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    Tin Cup ( The Original Randy I ) What’s your take on the Yanks pursuing Russell Martin ???? If he’s healthy he’ll be a steal…..He’s playing for a contract after this season…….Injuries took their toll the past season and a half….He’s a was a rising star for the Dodgers and plays with alot of heart and has a nice stick……Played 9 on an executive course this morning, back to the driving range as I’m not close to being ready to play for real….

  73. tyanksfan36 December 13th, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    YanksFanCA

    I don’t think we will be that bad off, I just think its pretty sucky that we have the highest payroll and no pitching. I’m all for Andy coming back and signing Lee but if it doesn’t happen I’m sure they will figure something out, maybe Nova will be less fatigued at the start of the season and will be more effective than he was at the end this past season. I’m hoping they keep Montero. I don’t like them hyping him up if all they’re going to do is trade him.

  74. YankFanCA December 13th, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    I’m no Cashman fan, but the elf only has one task that he must accomplish this offseason. If he fails to get Lee, it’s time to send his little a$$ back to the North Pole.

  75. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    Cervelli on his way out???

    bkabak

    We should have a New Orleans funeral. RT @Riglo: so Cervilli on the way out is basically what Jack Curry said on the YES Network
    4 minutes ago via Echofon

  76. YankFanCA December 13th, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    tyanks — sorry, but it won’t be pretty. It makes me sick that our rotation might barely be middle-of-the-pack.

  77. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    BryanHoch

    Yankees.com: Cashman says Yanks won’t raise Lee offer http://bit.ly/hpMnrD
    2 minutes ago via twitterfeed

  78. YsGuy December 13th, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    cervelli may now have the most value he ever will have. if they get martin, moving cervelli might be a good move

  79. ac1 December 13th, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    are you really whining about the rotation? it makes you sick?

    then go cheer for the amazing red sox then.

  80. Jerkface December 13th, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    What did Curry say about Cervo?

  81. YankFanCA December 13th, 2010 at 7:24 pm

    I’ll do what you say, ac1, because you’re just so objective. Stick the pom-poms where the sun don’t shine.

  82. ac1 December 13th, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    i dont understand how Lee is considering Philly. They dumped him off on Seattle, and have no intention of going anywhere near 7 years.

  83. pat December 13th, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    Ken_Rosenthal Confirmed: #Phillies involved in pursuit of Lee. http://bit.ly/hJdYim #Rangers #Yankees #MLB

  84. ac1 December 13th, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    YankFanCA December 13th, 2010 at 7:24 pm
    I’ll do what you say, ac1, because you’re just so objective. Stick the pom-poms where the sun don’t shine.

    ___

    No, im just not a drama queen like you are being. If you were any fan at all, you would know the Yankees will be sure to go into the season ready with or without Lee, and that we still have an edge…

    But instead, you are crying because we may nto get 1 free agent.

  85. Swishalicious33 December 13th, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    *hums Jeopardy tune*

    Time’s a-wastin’, Cliffy.

  86. Giuseppe Franco December 13th, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    Good grief.

    Why don’t people wait until ST starts before they write the Yanks off this season?

    If they don’t get Lee, they’ll find someone else. They have plenty of trade chips in their system.

  87. Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    We have a GM who is more interested in doing charity work dressed as an elf than improving the team. Theo might not be the best GM, or even a good GM, but he’s busting his tail trying to make deals to better their ballclub. Whether it be the “run prevention” approach or the “low risk, high reward” approach, at least he’s trying. Cashman allowed himself to be screwed by Jack Z out of Lee for half a season, and if Lee remains with the Rangers, we will have been screwed out of Lee entirely.

  88. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Damn straight we won’t raise it. Why should we?

  89. ac1 December 13th, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    And with the Phillies…..

    Almost equally far from Arkansas, and their fans are certainly less classy than Yankee fans.

  90. Rich in NJ December 13th, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    “Ledger_Yankees

    Appears that the Yankees have inquired about bringing back a member of it’s 2009 World Series team: Jerry Hairston Jr.”

    Damon was better defensively in the OF than Hairston.

  91. Rich in NJ December 13th, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    Maybe Lee prefers the NL.

  92. Benny Blanco December 13th, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    The phillies got some nerve. They had him, shipped him out for doc holliday, now they want him back…SMDH!!

  93. Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    Now that GMS III is not around anymore, Cashman can act like he is a cool guy. “Dude”

  94. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    YankFanCA December 13th, 2010 at 7:20 pm
    tyanks — sorry, but it won’t be pretty. It makes me sick that our rotation might barely be middle-of-the-pack.

    I THINK you’re mistaken.might you be judging the rotation by your last impression of it?CC was battling the knee and just wasn’t himself. Burnett had a nightmare season, Hughes was possibly running out of gas and Pettitte was hurting & still managed to pitch great in a losing effort vs. Tex.it’s a very good rotation without going out and getting anyone.i feel Burnett is coming back strong this year,and the early work with rothschild & his own pride has him putting his best foot forward already.got some depth too with the kid Nova and whether the yanks say so or not,joba if he’s still here is always a SP option.everything is relative friend. we’re in pretty darn good shape.

  95. coney1 December 13th, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    There is no way the Phillies unload Blanton and someone like Ibanez in the next few days to afford Lee…Cliff make the freakin decision already and announce it. It’s Dec 13th and the Yankees and Rangers have other business to conduct…you jackwagon!

  96. ac1 December 13th, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    We have a GM who is more interested in doing charity work dressed as an elf than improving the team. Theo might not be the best GM, or even a good GM, but he’s busting his tail trying to make deals to better their ballclub. Whether it be the “run prevention” approach or the “low risk, high reward” approach, at least he’s trying. Cashman allowed himself to be screwed by Jack Z out of Lee for half a season, and if Lee remains with the Rangers, we will have been screwed out of Lee entirely.

    __

    Bet you didnt feel that way in 2009 when we got CC, Burnett and Tex. Yeah Cash was really dogging it. Just because Lee is playing the Yankees doesnt mean anything.

    And didnt we want Cashman to handle deals more privately anyway? That was all we heard with Jeter, is how can he be so public. Now that he is private, you want to hear more.

  97. yankee21 December 13th, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    Even if PHIL is the so called mystery team, it is irrelevant unless they match or exceed the Yankees offer.

    Can’t see PHIL coming up with the coin to do it.

  98. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    http://twitter.com/NYYrumors/s.....5847465984

    “I don’t like this perception that we’re confused or disoriented or we don’t know what we’re doing,” Cashman told ESPNNewYork.com. “We have contingency plans in the event they decide to go another way.

  99. Giuseppe Franco December 13th, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    # Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    We have a GM who is more interested in doing charity work dressed as an elf than improving the team. Theo might not be the best GM, or even a good GM, but he’s busting his tail trying to make deals to better their ballclub. Whether it be the “run prevention” approach or the “low risk, high reward” approach, at least he’s trying. Cashman allowed himself to be screwed by Jack Z out of Lee for half a season, and if Lee remains with the Rangers, we will have been screwed out of Lee entirely.

    ————

    Congratulations for winning the dumbest comment of the day award.

  100. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    yankeefeminista December 13th, 2010 at 7:28 pm
    Damn straight we won’t raise it. Why should we?

    THE GM already protested “we’re not desperate.”i sure don’t feel it’s dire so hoping its not just lip service from him. stand our ground and let him walk if that’s his preference.

  101. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    Obviously Cash has a contingency plan. He would be a moron if he didn’t.

  102. Rich in NJ December 13th, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    “Congratulations for winning the dumbest comment of the day award.”

    Really. Let the offseason unfold before rushing to judgment.

  103. Yogi Mantle December 13th, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    Maybe Cliff doesn’t want to go to ST, so is waiting till after that to sign with a club… ala Favre. ;)

  104. GreenBeret7 December 13th, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 7:28 pm
    We have a GM who is more interested in doing charity work dressed as an elf than improving the team. Theo might not be the best GM, or even a good GM, but he’s busting his tail trying to make deals to better their ballclub. Whether it be the “run prevention” approach or the “low risk, high reward” approach, at least he’s trying. Cashman allowed himself to be screwed by Jack Z out of Lee for half a season, and if Lee remains with the Rangers, we will have been screwed out of Lee entirely.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    You have much in commom with the original Jacob Ruppert. He’s been dead for 65 years and you’re dead from the neck up.

  105. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    THE GM already protested “we’re not desperate.”i sure don’t feel it’s dire so hoping its not just lip service from him. stand our ground and let him walk if that’s his preference
    _________
    100% agree, Pruf. We *aren’t* desperate. We won the WS with this staff, assuming Andy comes back. Having Kerry Wood wouldn’t hurt either!

  106. Carl December 13th, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    # Rich in NJ December 13th, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    “Ledger_Yankees

    Appears that the Yankees have inquired about bringing back a member of it’s 2009 World Series team: Jerry Hairston Jr.”

    Damon was better defensively in the OF than Hairston.

    Damon was also better playing Third/Short/2nd

  107. GMAN December 13th, 2010 at 7:37 pm

    Phillies bold move to engage Lee. If they get him they win the WS for the next 3yrs. No matter if it’s the yanks, red sox, rangers, twins or angels that rep the AL! Phils will reign supreme.

  108. Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 7:37 pm

    GF – I dont get into the personal attacks side of this blog. I gave an opinion. You have nothing to offer to counter my opinion, so you throw out a personal attack. “Dumb” is in the eye of the beholder.

  109. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    We have a GM who is more interested in doing charity work dressed as an elf than improving the team.

    THEY”RE NOT mutually exclusive. ANy way, the way some idiots talk on here, the charity started with Jeter’s contract.

  110. randy l. December 13th, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    “What’s your take on the Yanks pursuing Russell Martin ????”

    pat m-

    i haven’t watched him play, but that throwing out runners percentage gets my attention.

    that’s what the yankee will need with the red sox.

    i’m all for signing him.

    i also think that makes it a lot easier for montero to break into the line up without the pressure.

  111. Rich in NJ December 13th, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    “GF – I dont get into the personal attacks side of this blog. I gave an opinion. You have nothing to offer to counter my opinion, so you throw out a personal attack. “Dumb” is in the eye of the beholder.”

    When someone posts something that is so spectacularly uninformed, they should expect to be called on it.

  112. Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    J. Alfred – That is an excellent counter to my opinion. You are right. They are indeed not mutually exclusive. I am just a bit perturbed that this is carrying out so long, and also fearful of what our rotation will look like if Lee spurns us.

  113. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    Do you think that when Favre is walking off the field for the last time he will….

  114. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    Carl December 13th, 2010 at 7:36 pm
    # Rich in NJ December 13th, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    “Ledger_Yankees

    Appears that the Yankees have inquired about bringing back a member of it’s 2009 World Series team: Jerry Hairston Jr.”

    Damon was better defensively in the OF than Hairston.

    Damon was also better playing Third/Short/2nd
    __________
    Damon is a broken down horse in LF. He improved as 2009 went on. But mostly he was awful. The numbers even have him below average.

  115. Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    Rich – Could you tell me what was uninformed about my post?

    He did charity work. He dressed as an elf. He got screwed out of Lee at the trade deadline. All indisputable facts.

  116. Rich in NJ December 13th, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    Jeter hardly needs charity, but he was paid over his market value, unlike Rivera.

  117. PittsburghYankeeFan December 13th, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    If the Phillies are still involved, it’s the signal to Texas (and everyone) that its about the money. They get to save face since he “loves” the Phillies as well, and is not going to go there either. This is about being a nice guy.

    Meanwhile, Braunecker and Cash are working out the details and haggling over the last couple of million.

    If it’s a money issue (and it almost always is–look at Jason Werth and Carl Crawford), then the Yankees will not be outbid.

  118. blake December 13th, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    Lee isn’t going to Philly.. He was hurt when they traded him and they aren’t matching 160 million dollars either. As I said earlier, if Im Cliff Lee then the price tag is even higher for the Phillies after they banished me to Seattle to aquire Halladay.

  119. Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    Rich – Also, when you call someone on an “uninformed” post, you should be called out with a countering opinion along with reasoning. Not personal attacks.

  120. yankee21 December 13th, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    This desperation/confusing narrative is a bunch of manufactured BS by mediots and bloggers who confuse a FA’ decision making process with a team’s planning process.

    Desperation for Cashman and NYY would be likened to what many of the bloggers on here want to do- essentially call up Lee or worse, call him out, and demand he make a decision or tell him what it will take to make him happy. That is desperation. And that is a good way to pay more through the nose than what NYY will already pay, or lose the guy.

    Ultimately Lee will make a decision when he is good and ready and ultimately Cashman will make his moves with or without Lee when the the timing is right.

  121. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    Jacob Ruppert – I enjoy your perspective and I’m sure many others do as well. You should understand that there are some here who erroneously think that longevity translates into some sort of entitlement. Keep on brother.

  122. Erica in NY December 13th, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    Johnny Damon for back-up/4th outfielder in 2011.

    There. I said it

  123. Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    WCYF – You are right about the longevity/entitlement. To me, it seems like there is an in-crowd, sort of like a high school clique. I do not post much because I am not in the “in-crowd”

  124. Rich in NJ December 13th, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    OK, Jacob Ruppert

    “We have a GM who is more interested in doing charity work dressed as an elf than improving the team. ”

    You’re assuming facts that aren’t in evidence. If you knew that he was spending 18 hours a day trying to improve the team (which he may well be), why do you care what he does at other times?

    “Theo might not be the best GM, or even a good GM, but he’s busting his tail trying to make deals to better their ballclub. Whether it be the “run prevention” approach or the “low risk, high reward” approach, at least he’s trying. ”

    This is also merely speculation. He had the luxury of working with another GM who used to be in his employ and liked his former prospects. Then he had an owner willing to lavish a huge contract on Crawford. I’m not sure that proves he was busting his butt. It only proves that opportunity and means conformed with his needs.

    “Cashman allowed himself to be screwed by Jack Z out of Lee for half a season, and if Lee remains with the Rangers, we will have been screwed out of Lee entirely.”

    The best thing that happened to Cashman may have been Jack Z’s decision to back out of that trade. If, for example, Lee really wants to play close to Arkansas, Cashman could have been in a position where he surrendered Montero and still couldn’t (re)sign Lee.

  125. Tom in N.J. December 13th, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    “there are some here who erroneously think that longevity translates into some sort of entitlement”

    Jeter?

  126. Carlo December 13th, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    West Coast – ur statement re tenure translating into assumed personal intellect is so true. Its comical actually.

  127. CompassRosy December 13th, 2010 at 7:48 pm

    trisha ? true pinstriped blue December 13th, 2010 at 8:55 am
    “Over the past three years Cliff Lee has been out pitching CC Sabathia”

    Hell if I got to pitch out of the AL Central or AL West, I?d out pitch CC too!

    :::::::::::::::::::::

    Sis ~
    Sorry, saw your posts this morning, but wasn?t able to respond till now…

    Welcome back, btw :-)

    As for the strengths and weaknesses of the various divisions…
    it’s somewhat interesting to note that Cliff actually has a slightly better career record and ERA vs. +.500 teams (47-38 / 3.67) than does CC (55-57 / 3.99) (albeit fewer games). Not that record and ERA are the end all be all, but it wouldn’t be a stretch to think that Cliff can hang with the “big bad boys of the east” considering how he has performed thus far in his career vs. good teams.

    Besides, CC has done OK in NY, and he came from the lowly ALC too ;-)

    Anyhoo, ‘t would be nice if Cliff decides soon so everyone can get on with their business but, I can’t blame him for taking as long as he feels necessary to ensure he makes the right decision for himself and his family. After all, unless he blossoms into another Jamie Moyer, this is likely his final MLB contract…

  128. Captain Clutch December 13th, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    It’s time for Cashman to give Lee and his agent a deadline. The Yankees have been very patient and it’s time for his agent to show them some respect. All of these leaks about mystery teams is trying to get either team to raise their offers and it’s time to announce your decision. I am sure Lee made up his mind Thursday or Friday and now they are trying to get every last penny. The Yanks shouldn’t sit around while the Phillies sniff their noses around.

  129. PittsburghYankeeFan December 13th, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    Jacob Ruppert

    There’s nothing wrong with doing charity work–it takes guts to rappel down a 22 story building.

    In terms of the Lee deal, they thought they had a deal with Seattle, who negotiated in bad faith. At the end of the day, they get to keep Montero and likely Cliff Lee will be a Yankee by Friday. Not bad, if you ask me.

    He’s also not doing a GMS and offering another $10 million to end the negotiation early like we’re used to from the Yankees. Good for him. They’ll use to cash to sign Russell Martin or maybe a lefty reliever.

    The Yankees will be just fine, with or without Cliff Lee.

  130. blake December 13th, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    Heaven forbid someone do something one day for charity. Cashman balked at giving up Nunez because they may need him in the future and many think the Mariners just preferred Smoak and once his name got thrown in they were going in that direction anyway. Cashman has made the biggest offer by a wide margin most likely….what else can he do.

  131. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    Cliff Lee is a slut (someone had to say it).

  132. Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    Rich – Thanks for responding with reason. You are right on your first two points. On the third point, Im pretty sure Cashman would have requested a negotiating window to sign Lee to an extension. Now, we may never even have the chance to see Lee in pinstripes.

  133. Rich in NJ December 13th, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    “It’s time for Cashman to give Lee and his agent a deadline.”

    Why give a deadline unless a contingency plan suddenly becomes time-limited?

  134. Rich in NJ December 13th, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    Jacob Ruppert

    Was that part of the reported trade negotiations? I don’t recall that.

  135. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    Theo might not be the best GM, or even a good GM, but he’s busting his tail trying to make deals to better their ballclub. Whether it be the “run prevention” approach or the “low risk, high reward” approach, at least he’s trying

    YOU THINK because Theo came up with a buzz term for two rotten campaigns he was “trying” harder? Wasn’t one of them “bridge year” (as in: jig’s up, we got nothing on the farm and don’t want to spend on anyone so let’s make ourselves appear virtuous).what’s boy wonder doing to bolster the very iffy rotation and bullpen in beantown? his stinkin’ team got smoked in the ALDS two years ago by the Angels and last year they failed to make the playoffs.that was on his watch,wasn’t it?

  136. Yogi Mantle December 13th, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    Being patient is not a quality that fans seem to have in any amount.

    The agent is working to maximize the contract, having the Rangers, who are limited in what they can offer, and this mystery team that he loves (supposedly the Phillies), waiting is about the last thing that Braunecker has as a tool to make sure that he has the top offers from the teams who are bidding.

    Cashman isn’t pushing this, but he is saying the offer they have in hand is it.

    Funny how the Rangers haven’t been reported to have talked to Lee or his agent recently, yet Cashman was.

    With a deal of this magnitude, and knowing that things can change even after you have an agreement in principle, I would think the Yankees/ or the Rangers/ or the Phillies, would want to have something signed before any announcement goes out.

    If that is the case, then it means lawyers going through the contract, checking each clause and checking it twice to make sure no one is being naughty.

    The last thing you want on either side is there to be a snafu that nixes the deal after it gets announced.

  137. Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    Pittsburgh – Im not so sure the Yankees will be fine without Lee. Without Lee, 2011 may be a bridge year. This is not a matter of loyalty: I will watch the Yankees all season if they are 162-0 or 0-162, but I dont think our rotation is good enough to win without Lee and/or Pettitte. There isn’t any dominant pitching available via trade and any trade the Yankees make for top talent, we will be forced to give top talent in return.

  138. GreenBeret7 December 13th, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 7:46 pm
    WCYF – You are right about the longevity/entitlement. To me, it seems like there is an in-crowd, sort of like a high school clique. I do not post much because I am not in the “in-crowd”

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    I can almost hear the deep sobs and pain in your voice seeping through the computer.

    It has zero to do with “cliques” and “in crowds”. It’s about making stupid remarks.

    How about having Cashman stopping by your house and telling you how to spend your free time?

  139. SAS December 13th, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    Jacob Ruppert,

    Even GM’s are entitled to some down time and this was for charity. Was Cashman supposed to be manufacturing money on a Sunday with the Mint closed. I guess he shouldn’t sleep or see his family either. You are a fool.

  140. SAS December 13th, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    Erica,

    Good for you, and having Johnny for his bat and some back up in the outfield is not a bad idea.

  141. blake December 13th, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    Heyman says the Phillies are trying to find a taker for Blanton to maybe clear payroll…..he’s assuming its for Lee.

    They also could be trying to find a taker for him because he stinks and they are tired of paying him…

  142. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    SI_JonHeyman

    hearing #phillies looking for takers for blanton. looks like theyre trying to come up with loot. @ken_rosenthal ID’d them as #mysteryteam
    1 minute ago via web

  143. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    We all know very little about what Lee and his camp are doing or thinking. We are all just speculating the best we can because we are Yankee fans and it’s interesting and fun to do so.

    - I believe the Yankees have the most guaranteed money on the table, I think so anyway from what’s been reported. Probably seven years and $20 million a year plus. They have money going for them.

    - I also believe that the Rangers are probably at six years guaranteed at $20 million plus and maybe a seventh year with some sort of option and whatever perks they think are unique and will help make a deal. They have lifestyle and proximity to home going for them.

    - I also believe there is at least a third team in on Lee. The Angels who missed out on Crawford and have some money to spend are a possibility. And I think the Phillies are a possibility, they have some money coming off the books this year and last year. From what I have heard this team does not have a great guaranteed offer, maybe five years or six at a lower AAV. But, it’s been reported that Lee loves the situation. That suggests Philly to me. Or maybe there is another unknown team that is in the shadows, like the Yankees were when Teixeira was out there.

    I have no idea what’s going to happen, but as a Yankee fan I can’t help but think, if he hasn’t already decided to go where the money is, namely New York, perhaps he doesn’t want to come here.

    Or maybe it’s just typical agent gamesmanship and squeezing more dollars out of the Yankees. But since Cashman, who is not prone to hyperbole, said they are not raising their offer. Who knows.

  144. Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    Rich – I dont believe that was part of any trade talk because there was no agreement to a trade. I believe once a trade had been agreed to in principle, the negotiating window would have been a likely scenario.

    blake – One day for charity. Do your one day of charity after the August 31 waiver trade deadline, not in the midst of free agency.

  145. blake December 13th, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    Jacob,

    I seriously doubt Cashman doing that will have any effect on anything that happens this winter.

  146. Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    # GreenBeret7 December 13th, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 7:46 pm
    WCYF – You are right about the longevity/entitlement. To me, it seems like there is an in-crowd, sort of like a high school clique. I do not post much because I am not in the “in-crowd”

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    I can almost hear the deep sobs and pain in your voice seeping through the computer.

    It has zero to do with “cliques” and “in crowds”. It’s about making stupid remarks.

    How about having Cashman stopping by your house and telling you how to spend your free time?

    _______

    I dont care enough about any of you for “deep sobs” or “pain in my voice.” If you dropped dead tomorrow, I would not care one iota. :)

    It has everything to do with cliques and in-crowds. You type your own share of stupid remarks, but very few will call you out for it.

    It looks like you went through an entire post without a spelling mistake. Bravo!

  147. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    Right GB7 I am sure my last post really qualifies as stupid.

  148. Carlo December 13th, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    Realistically, what is trading joe blanton going to save them? They’re going to have to eat a chunk of his salary and the gap for Lee has to be huge.

  149. PittsburghYankeeFan December 13th, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    Also, if the Phillies and Rangers are still in the mix, think about this:

    The Phillies didn’t want him to test free agency, after he pitched them to the WS in 2009. I’d be a bit perturbed by that, as well as the fact that they shipped him off to Seattle. He may “love” the Phillies, but I’m sure there is a bit of hurt there.

    Last July, the Yankees trade for you. You talk to CC and Amber about where to live. You know that they basically are odds on favorite to win the WS that year with you fronting them. You’re totally jacked, as CC and the rest of them know.

    Then, out of nowhere, another GM screws you over and ships you to Texas. It’s not Texas’ fault, but they are complicit in it, by offering Smoak to Seattle at the last minute after the deal was basically done. Again, you’re a piece of meat to these guys.

    MLB has treated you like a slave (albeit a decently paid one) for the past 18 months, and you’ve gone along with it, not saying a bad word to anyone. Deep down, however, you know at the end of the day it’s a business.

    The Rangers and the Phillies have the chutzpah (yes, a word you don’t hear that much in Arkansas) to think you’ll sign for LESS after all of the crap GMs have put you through for the past 2 years? Who are they kidding? What kind of clown do Chuck Greenberg and company think you are?

    You instruct Braunecker to get as much as you can, on your terms. You’ve earned it, by being the best postseason starter of the past decade.

    Cliff Lee did what he had to, without complaint, to get to this period. He controls it, not the GMs. He can do whatever he wants.

  150. Doreen December 13th, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    SAS -

    Curry is just so professional. He didn’t say anything particularly enlightening, but he is no-hype, you know?

  151. Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    blake – Yes. That is why I previously retracted my statement. My frustration with this long process and our potential starting rotation without a Lee and/or Pettitte has me worried.

    SAS – If you have to resort to personal attacks, then your opinion is of no value.

  152. JCPD December 13th, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    There isn’t any dominant pitching available via trade and any trade the Yankees make for top talent, we will be forced to give top talent in return.

    ——————————————————————————————–

    How dare the rest of baseball…… we’re the Yankees, don’t you know you’re supposed to trade your top talent to us for our scrubs!!!

  153. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 7:39 pm
    J. Alfred – That is an excellent counter to my opinion. You are right. They are indeed not mutually exclusive. I am just a bit perturbed that this is carrying out so long, and also fearful of what our rotation will look like if Lee spurns us.

    I jUST DON’T believe the rotation represented well in the playoffs,but as yank fem observed,it’s the same group as the WS winning team,except Hughes was coming out of the bullpen.what are the odds CC & Pettitte will be hurt & AJ will be so awful again – all in the same year?Hughes will have no IP limits…I just don’t see that SP as not being a strength,of course,I’m making an assumption here that Andy returns.you could say that IF Lee signs with us,we go from strong to shutdown staff.I just don’t share the panic on the rotation.

  154. Mike Ri December 13th, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    the Phillies ?? ughhhhh

  155. Pat M. December 13th, 2010 at 8:05 pm

    Rich in NJ…..Great call on the aborted Lee trade back in July……Had he lost both Lee and Montero Cashman would be squirming more than he is right now…….Although I do think Had that trade gone through, Yanks would have won the World Series….Then again had the trade gone through with Arizona they might have won the WS as well…..

  156. blake December 13th, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    Zack Greinke Rumors: Monday
    By Tim Dierkes [December 13 at 6:53pm CST]

    6:53pm: Baseball sources told Crasnick that the Yankees and Rangers are not great fits for a Greinke trade, since neither team has up-the-middle position players nearly ready for the majors. Brett Gardner’s name has come up in talks between the Royals and Yankees, according to Crasnick.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

  157. Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    “How dare the rest of baseball…… we’re the Yankees, don’t you know you’re supposed to trade your top talent to us for our scrubs!!!”

    No, that is the Red Sox. They just traded for top talent and only gave up scrubs. Just as they did for Pedro and Schilling.

  158. Captain Clutch December 13th, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    “Why give a deadline unless a contingency plan suddenly becomes time-limited?”
    ———

    Cashman has to start looking at plans B, C and D if Lee isn’t coming here. He can’t sign anyone or spend any money until he knows. If Lee isn’t coming then Cash will probably go after Wood aggressively and get another bat. After a while players get tired of waiting and the longer this goes on the harder it will be and we will get stuck with whoever is left.

  159. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    95% of me wants Lee to sign with us. 5% of me is insanely curious as to what Cashman would do if Lee bails.

  160. Doreen December 13th, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    Pat M -

    I’m reading and scrolling and whatever, but I saw your question to Tin Cup above. I saw the play where Martin got hurt. While it was not the smartest of slides, it was definitely 100% hustle.

  161. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2010 at 8:09 pm

    MYSTERY TEAM, no longer a mystery…

    Hat tip to Heyman for scooping ESPN…

    SI_JonHeyman
    sources confirms #phillies as a #mystery team. hard to see them beating the #yankees bid. but they are alive in lee derby
    half a minute ago via web

  162. Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 8:09 pm

    J Alfred –

    I see your points on the rotation. However, imo, Andy is one year older, coming off an injury. AJ Burnett is coming off a historically bad season, and is known for being consistently inconsistent. That leaves CC and Phil that can be relied on.

  163. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 8:09 pm

    CSN Philly reports Yankees, Rangers and Phillies are finalists and he is close to making a decision.

  164. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    Bret it’s not possible! Jon Heyman could not possibly be a good source for anything!

  165. Giuseppe Franco December 13th, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    # Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 7:37 pm

    GF – I dont get into the personal attacks side of this blog. I gave an opinion. You have nothing to offer to counter my opinion, so you throw out a personal attack. “Dumb” is in the eye of the beholder.

    ———–

    Common sense counters your argument.

    You just claimed the Yankee GM cares more about non-baseball issues than improving the team yet praised Theo because “he’s trying.” Those words speak for themselves.

    Never mind the fact that Theo thought he was smarter than everyone last offseason with his “run prevention” strategy that completely blew up in his face.

    He also negotiated three bad contracts in the past year giving Crawford an absurd amount of money as well as the extension to Beckett (who was horrible last season and has had a long history of health issues) and signing Lackey (who was also horrible last season).

    Theo’s team hasn’t won a single playoff game in two years while Cashman’s team has won 16 playoff games, including a championship.

  166. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    After being bashed by Gammons, Olney and others all morning long for the “mystery team” report, Heyman takes the high ground and credits Olney for identifying the Phillies.

    Message to ESPN.

    GET SOME MANNERS LOSERS!!!

  167. blake December 13th, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    Lee should tell the Phillies to either pay 180 million or bugger off……they had their chance and they traded him.

  168. Pat M. December 13th, 2010 at 8:15 pm

    Doreen, If Martin is close to being healthy Yankee fans are going to love his game and style of play…..

  169. Captain Clutch December 13th, 2010 at 8:15 pm

    Hopefully the talk about the Phillies being involved is just Lee’s agent seeing if he can get the Yankees to raise their offer one last time. I could see Philly offering 4-5 year contract if they can even afford that but I highly doubt they could match the Yanks offer. Hopefully tomorrow is decision day.

  170. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    West Coast Yankees Fan,

    Sent this message to Heyman in your honor.

    http://twitter.com/NYYrumors/s.....2551689216

  171. Willis December 13th, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    I thought Lee wanted to be close to Arkansas? ? lol

  172. Doreen December 13th, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    If the Yankees had been able to trade for Lee back in July, Lee would not have spent the last couple of months of the season getting all the positives he got while in Texas – no “antlers and claws,” no quick trips home to Arkansas, no trip to the WS with Texas.

    Certainly, I believe Texas would have been a bidder for Lee this off-season, but the comparisons would be different. He would have played the last couple of months with CC and AJ and the Yankees and gone to the WS with them.

    So, I think that if the trade had gone through and the Yankees “lost” Montero, but had Lee, I think odds are they would have been able to keep Lee and this whole scenario we’re steeped in now wouldn’t even be.

  173. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    Actually, Rosenthal scooped Heyman et al. on Philly as mystery team. Heyman has Phillies still 50 mil short *after* dumping Blanton’s salary.

  174. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 8:03 pm
    blake – Yes. That is why I previously retracted my statement. My frustration with this long process and our potential starting rotation without a Lee and/or Pettitte has me worried.

    SAS – If you have to resort to personal attacks, then your opinion is of no value.

    I AM not a religious poster here.i have lurked for years but was fed up with the anti-jeter stuff so signed up just to give a voice to the “side” that was either not fully represented or that was too bullied here by the True Believer (see Eric Hoffer) Saber faction and fell silent..I rarely even paste in username but instead respond to the content instead of WHO said what.

  175. BD (Boston Dave) December 13th, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    “He’s playing for a contract after this season”

    ———–

    Pat M.

    I’m pretty sure Martin would be under team control (via arbitration) for an additional year.

    So a 1 yr deal is great. If he does well, you can keep him or trade him in 2012. If he doesn’t it’s just a 1 yr commitment.

  176. GreenBeret7 December 13th, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    Philly isn’t likely to pay Lee more than the 4 year, $20 mil a years contract, and Lee isn’t leaving $80 mil+ sitting on the table.

  177. Rich in NJ December 13th, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    RIP, Richard Holbrooke

  178. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    What is with all the Theo love from Yankee fans? Theo’s home-grown, run-prevention value signings have been an epic failure as he has dumped his model to revert to good ole FA signings way over market value. Let’s drink a pre-holiday egg nog toast to Theo.

  179. blake December 13th, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    If Lee loved Philly then he should love NY even more. Philly isn’t particularly close to Arkansas either……

  180. BD (Boston Dave) December 13th, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    “Jon Heyman of SI.com hears that the Phillies are trying to find takers for Joe Blanton.

    Heyman speculates that the Phillies are looking to free up some space on their payroll for Cliff Lee.”

    whatever. at this point, the Yankees, I hope have made their final offer. Move on to other things and if Lee finally decides where he’s going, so be it.

  181. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 8:23 pm

    Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    West Coast Yankees Fan, Sent this message to Heyman in your honor. http://twitter.com/NYYrumors/s…..2551689216

    ****************

    Smile. Excellent!

  182. Tar December 13th, 2010 at 8:23 pm

    I will admit I am having a hard time getting excited about C. Lee for 7 years.

    3 would be great. 4 or 5 OK if that is what the market dictates.

    6 or 7 guaranteed I think I would have to pass. Although Possibly with the creative use of options, I can see Cash making it work.

    Otherwise play some kids, make some trades and get better at the deadline.

  183. BD (Boston Dave) December 13th, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    GB7,

    they gave Halladay 3/$60M

    so clearly Lee is worth 265% more than Halladay (7/$161) to them

  184. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    Jacob Ruppert December 13th, 2010 at 8:09 pm
    J Alfred –

    I see your points on the rotation. However, imo, Andy is one year older, coming off an injury. AJ Burnett is coming off a historically bad season, and is known for being consistently inconsistent. That leaves CC and Phil that can be relied on.

    I STILL don’t see ALL THREE THINGS happening again: CC & Andy hurt, AJ sucking. That to me is pessimistic. Andy is older it’s true and with age there’s risk. But Andy may just be one of those guys. we will see soon enough how it goes.

  185. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    Yankeefeminista,

    Heyman first Tweeted the mystery team and the guys over at ESPN dogpiled on him for it starting with Buster Olney early this morning.

    Buster later identified the Phillies as the mystery team.

    Tonight Heyman took the higher ground and credited Buster for identifying the Phillies even though Buster bashed Heyman earlier.

    ESPN has no class.

    Nada.

  186. BD (Boston Dave) December 13th, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Yanks should be prepared for injury, as always.

    If that is Sergio Mitre and Ivan Nova, ok.

    But they should assume they’ll need 6-7 starters this season.

    If they can’t get Lee or Pettitte, they’ll deal. But if that means Nova moves into #5, they should still get another pitcher to be #6 or #7.

  187. RadioKev December 13th, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    I suppose it makes sense that Lee loved Philly, why else would he wait on them to move money around to try and make a deal? That story seems possible.

    I’m not sure why else he’d be waiting once Ryan and Cashman have said they’re now in the waiting process.

  188. GreenBeret7 December 13th, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    BD (Boston Dave) December 13th, 2010 at 8:25 pm
    GB7,

    they gave Halladay 3/$60M

    so clearly Lee is worth 265% more than Halladay (7/$161) to them

    ———————————————————————————————————————

    He has a 4th year option if he pitches 225 in 2012, 415 innings in 2012 and 2013 total and doesn’t end 2013 on the DL….all 3 have to happen.

  189. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    Yankeesfeminista,

    My MISTAKE.

    ROSENTHAL identified Heyman’s mystery team and Heyman credited Rosenthal for it.

  190. BD (Boston Dave) December 13th, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    GB7,

    I know… but still seems crazy that Roy Halladay very quietly signed a fair deal with only $60M guaranteed.

    Yet Cliff Lee is likely going to get more than 2 1/2 times guaranteed. It pays to be a free agent.

  191. West Coast Yankee Fan December 13th, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    What about “poor” Evan Longoria. No wonder he wants his hat back.

  192. Gary December 13th, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    Got a link for Giants game if anyone is interested

  193. GreenBeret7 December 13th, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    As long as Noesi, Phelps and DJ Mitchell are effective and healthy, they would be ready by mis-season. Innings restrictions would be almost non-existant. They were all close to 160 innings this season.

  194. Carlo December 13th, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    The philly thing is scary because it may explain the waiting….knowing philly has to make a move to even make an offer makes sense. I just don’t see how trading joe blanton gets the job done financially.

  195. BD (Boston Dave) December 13th, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    sure Gary, why not?

    thanks.

  196. BD (Boston Dave) December 13th, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    good point GB7.

    Some of those pitching prospects will start surfacing…

  197. Gary December 13th, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    http://sjumbo-131210.blogspot......nel-3.html

  198. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    BobKlap

    #Yankees are especially worried about #Phillies’ pursuit of Lee. They’re worried, period: Lee still hasn’t said yes to most $ and years
    less than 20 seconds ago via TweetDeck

  199. blake December 13th, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    SI_JonHeyman

    maddux left $5 mil-plus on table taking braves over yankees. might lee have to leave $50 mil if he takes phils over yanks? 9 minutes ago via web

  200. Yogi Mantle December 13th, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    I’d be surprised if the Phillies are offering the same years, let alone dollars that the Yankees are.

    They are at a high for their payroll now as it is, so fitting Lee into that mix seems a stretch.

    I can understand Lee giving them a shot, even though he didn’t sound like he was all that happy about being traded from them.

    Being that the Phillies are in the mix, it kind of takes away some of the value of being closer to home, and mutes some of the impact of taxes.

  201. GreenBeret7 December 13th, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    BD (Boston Dave) December 13th, 2010 at 8:33 pm
    GB7,

    I know… but still seems crazy that Roy Halladay very quietly signed a fair deal with only $60M guaranteed.

    Yet Cliff Lee is likely going to get more than 2 1/2 times guaranteed. It pays to be a free agent

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Agreed. Lee to Philly ain’t happening. He’s already seen that they’ll trade anybody at any time. He’s not likely to agree to $80-$105 mil less than what his market value has already been set at.

  202. Rich in NJ December 13th, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    The Yankees will be OK with or without Lee.

    But why anyone confides Klapisch or Heyman is beyond me.

  203. Bronx Jeers December 13th, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    Halladay has been better than Cliff Lee and for longer.

    I still can’t believe he never hit free agency. I think he lost a fortune signing that extension. Maybe he just wants to pitch and win. It’s just so odd in this day and age for somebody with his talent.

  204. Yogi Mantle December 13th, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    I don’t buy it that Lee would leave $50 million on the table to go back to the Phillies. I think he would take the Rangers deal over the Phillies in that case.

  205. yankeefeminista December 13th, 2010 at 8:43 pm

    No way Lee goes to Philly for 50mil less in spite of his professed “love” for the team.

  206. Benny Blanco December 13th, 2010 at 8:43 pm

    i cant believe it has come to this??

  207. Carlo December 13th, 2010 at 8:43 pm

    I never waivered when it was us or texas…..the waiting plus the discovery that philly is in the mix has me concerned. The rest of the NL might as well not bother this year if Lee goes to philly.
    Halladay
    Lee
    Oswalt
    Hamels
    Kendrick

    May be the best rotation since smoltz/glavine/maddux

  208. 38HotDogs December 13th, 2010 at 8:45 pm

    If the Phillies are trying to move contracts to free up some space, you got to believe Lee’s camp has told them they are the favorites. It really looks like he has no desire to join CC in New York – I think he will be a Phillie by this time tomorrow

  209. Rich in NJ December 13th, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    “If the Phillies are trying to move contracts to free up some space, you got to believe Lee’s camp has told them they are the favorites. It really looks like he has no desire to join CC in New York – I think he will be a Phillie by this time tomorrow”

    You’ll either be right or you’ll be wrong.

  210. GreenBeret7 December 13th, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    Mrs. Lee ain’t giving up all of those extra shopping sprees at Wal-Mart’s.

  211. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    HA.bet they face and lose to SF again. LMAO

  212. blake December 13th, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    Feeling pretty good about the Yanks chances.

  213. Bronx Jeers December 13th, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    I think that if this thing ends with the Yanks out then they were never really in it in the first place.

    With no obvious offer topping the Yanks and with Philly now involved you begin to wonder if he’s just using the Yanks to see who comes the closest between “his true loves”

  214. Carlo December 13th, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    For the first time, I believe Cliff Lee has no desire to play here.

  215. RadioKev December 13th, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    Rich in NJ December 13th, 2010 at 8:41 pm
    The Yankees will be OK with or without Lee.

    But why anyone confides Klapisch or Heyman is beyond me.

    ————–

    “OK” is the key there.

  216. Benny Blanco December 13th, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    The phils are basically forcing cashman to up his offer..

  217. ac1 December 13th, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    i agree. leave the offer there, but start planning as though he will not be in ny next year. that being said, phillies rotation may be out of control next year.

  218. blake December 13th, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    I don’t think this new Philly revelation means anything. If they expressed interest then its in the best interest of camp Lee to get that information out there. Don’t see them getting near the Yankees offer.

  219. pat December 13th, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    If Philly is really in the mix, the Mrs. Lee being adverse to rude fans theory takes a big hit.

  220. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    Geez fellas don’t let this get you down. His agent is bluffing.

  221. ac1 December 13th, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    If Philly is really in the mix, the Mrs. Lee being adverse to rude fans theory takes a big hit.
    ___

    and the close to Arkansas argument.

  222. blake December 13th, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    If they are considering Philly then the whole Texas and proximity theory takes a big hit as well. I’m actually feeling better and better about the Yanks all the time in this.

  223. Gary December 13th, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    Giants 14-3 Half

    I listened to the ESPN SC update earlier, nothing was new on Lee probably someone has already posted

  224. Yogi Mantle December 13th, 2010 at 8:54 pm

    Why, if Lee “loves” this team so much, was it kept quiet till now?

    The years are supposed to be important to Lee. The amount is supposed to be important to Lee.

    I think the mystery team business was a bonus that Braunecker had to get the Yankees nervous enough to possibly increase their offer. That didn’t happen.

    I just have a hard time buying it that the Phillies are seriously in the hunt. It just seems like their being “in it” is just to help with any additional leverage for Lee.

    This will be interesting to see how this unfolds. I will be really surprised if Lee goes to Philly for less than both the Rangers and the Yankees offers.

  225. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    If Philly is really in the mix, the Mrs. Lee being adverse to rude fans theory takes a big hit.

    The NY fan is like the disciple of the Dalai Lama compared to that uncivilized lot.she’s lucky she wasn’t on the wrong side of the diamond down there.

  226. Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    BobKlap

    Highly unlikely #Yankees increase offer to Lee. Execs starting to think if Lee wanted to be in NY he would’ve accepted today.
    6 minutes ago via TweetDeck

  227. YankeeBlue222 December 13th, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    Good riddance, Cliff Lee. At this point, he’s looking as arrogant and greedy as Favre and LeBron.

    I don’t even care if we sign him at this point. When you look at the big picture, paying $20M+ for a 36 year old pitcher in a couple years is ridiculous.

    Let’s not forget his “awesome” World Series performance this year.

  228. bardos December 13th, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    Doesn’t this remind you a little of how it went down with CC’s signing? Biggest offer was out there from day one. And yet everyone got antsy because a rumor was spread that CC preferred the Left Coast. Eventually, after much paranoia, and much waiting, Cashman had to up the initial offer to sign him. I think we are seeing something similar happen here. This is the contract of Lee’s life. This is it. He’s trying to milk it for all it’s worth. I don’ t see any discount offered to any team.

  229. SAS December 13th, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    GB,

    You are too funny!!!!

  230. SAS December 13th, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    :arrow: Other teams are actually doing stuff

  231. pat December 13th, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    Media tracking the skies now….. :lol:

    Evan_P_Grant Private jet theory: on Cliff Lee. Plane took off from Love Field this afternoon bound for Little Rock and returned to Love this evening.

  232. Ed H. December 13th, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    It’s seeming more and more like Lee is not coming to the Yanks. If it was all about the money, and the Yanks were in other ways an acceptable alternative to him, I think he would have signed with us already. Most likely he is working with the Rangers and Phils to get the best deal he can from one of them.

    If he doesn’t sign with us it’s clearly not Cash’s fault. He has used everything at his disposal to try to get Lee under Yankees fans’ Christmas tree. As much as we love the Yanks, not everyone loves them as much as we do.

  233. RSM December 13th, 2010 at 9:01 pm

    Phillies rotation would be REALLY good.
    This is horrible – I live 20 miles from Philly.
    The fans are already insufferable.
    Better call a realtor – I may have to move!

  234. Gary December 13th, 2010 at 9:01 pm

    They are showing some Bret nostgalia, my best remberances of Favre are letting Strahan sack him for the then season sack record, and throwing the pick in OT of the Ice bowl before the Giants beat NE in the Super Bowl.

  235. Gary December 13th, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    lee has worn everyone out, just get on plane and go somewhere tomm, hopefully NY

  236. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    I am indifferent to Lee.just don’t trade the young slugging catcher and the two upside arms down in trenton,for me,that’s the holy trinity: montero/betances/banuelos.

  237. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    RSM December 13th, 2010 at 9:01 pm
    Phillies rotation would be REALLY good.
    This is horrible – I live 20 miles from Philly.
    The fans are already insufferable.
    Better call a realtor – I may have to move!

    JUST THINK how funny it’ll be when SF knocks them out AGAIN??

  238. Joey Ramone December 13th, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    I think it’s time for the Yankees to move on. They’re being used like they were used by Greg Maddux and Barry Bonds back in the early ’90′s. At this point, they should just pull the offer if he doesn’t give them an answer within a certain time frame…

  239. J. Alfred Prufrock December 13th, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    RSM – just wear a smile and the 2009 WS cap :).they’ll cower and avoid your gaze.

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