Brian Cashman conference call
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 14, 2010 
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Good decision by the Yankees, who are hosting a conference call with Brian Cashman beginning at 12:30. Better to let him answer all of these questions once rather than answer all of these questions a dozen times from a dozen different reporters.
I’ll update this post occasionally throughout the call.
UPDATE: 12:31 p.m.“Plan B is patience. We’ll engage the remaining free agent and trade market, and pursue what interests us at the level that we feel is appropriate.”
UPDATE, 12:33 p.m.: Cashman says Cliff Lee has no impact on Andy Pettitte. Whether Pettitte comes back is up to Pettitte. “I don’t wake up today with the Cliff Lee decision having to make a phone call to Andy.”
UPDATE, 12:36 p.m.: “I’m not angry. It certainly would have been nice to have him in our rotation, but that’s not going to happen.”
UPDATE, 12:38 p.m.: On the failed mid-season trade attempt: “I’m thankful even more so now that I didn’t do that.”
UPDATE, 12:39 p.m.: On Russell Martin: “I would not comment.”
UPDATE, 12:41 p.m.: On his wide net: “I’ve stayed in touch and I suspect that the first stage of this stuff, people are going to dial up on both trade and free agent price tags on us.”
UPDATE, 12:42 p.m.: “I think it would be a rare situation for me to include Montero in a deal.”
UPDATE, 12:45 p.m.: “The one thing The Boss has taught me personally is the fact that you have to get in the arena and fight. Sometimes you win the fight and sometimes you lose the fight… We’re not down and out at all.”
UPDATE, 12:50 p.m.: Cashman got the news late last night, between 11:30 and midnight. Darek Braunecker called, told Cashman he was going a different direction — Cashman didn’t ask where he was signing — and Cashman immediately called Hal Steinbrenner. Cashman said, at that point, he was not surprised to hear the news.
I don’t know what Brian has to explain about – the Yankees had the best offer on the table and Lee went somewhere else. What more could he have done?
Cashman’s opening statement: Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :::bleep:::: !!
http://sportsthunderdome.blogspot.com/
Angelo – Your blog is terrible.
UPDATE: “Plan B is patience. We’ll engage the remaining free agent and trade market, and pursue what interests us at the level that we feel is appropriate.”
Thank you.
plan B is patience?
oh no…..
joeman December 14th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
Cash is going to come up with something huge……and it may not be just a SP
Note to Hal: increase security around the stadium so incidents like the one to Lee’s wife don’t happen again.
The perception, whether or not it is true, is going to be that the fans spitting on his wife are the reason he didn’t come here. That is a pretty big indictment on your brand – that fans spit on other players wives and it ended up costing you a guy you lusted after for 2 years.
Repost:
Carlo,
I don’t know Lost very well but SJ knows his stuff. Has been an insider in sports for quite a while. We don’t always agree but he knows what he is talking about. Pat M played pro ball and SJ behind the scenes.
100RIX
What are you going to say after the Red Sox fail to win the World Series this year ?
It?s either boom or bust for the Sox this year. No injury excuses, no more excuses for ?big baby Beckett?, and the king of excuses John Lackluster and Fat Papi.
Either you win it all or the Sox are a complete failure.
repost
Of course it is patience. You don’t make knee-jerk decisions (see: crawford) just because things don’t go your way.
Irreverent Discourse – Thanks for taking the time to read. Much appreciated!
It was the best guaranteed money offer not the best average annual money for 5 or 6 years
Plan B is a Guns N Roses song?
“UPDATE: “Plan B is patience.”
Patience isn’t going to win us a championship, Brian. We’ve gone a year already without winning a title and our competition got much stronger. The pennant is not going to win itself… need to make moves, lots of them.
What team does this Patience play for…..will he require Montero to acquire?
The perception, whether or not it is true, is going to be that the fans spitting on his wife are the reason he didn’t come here.
This is only your perception. My perception… and everyone else’s… is that he already wanted to play in philly… he was just waiting for them to step up to the plate.
She’d be lucky to be spit on in Philly, it would be the least offensive thing that goes on during the game.
on Andy: Joelsherman1 He hasn?t officially retired yet or decided to play.?
We’ve gone a year already without winning a title
OH MY GOD, A WHOLE YEAR? Spoiled much?
carlo-
it’s not necessary to have some behind the scenes experience to have great baseball insights. look at cb. his are as good as it gets and there are lots of other smart people on the blog.
if you are new to the blog , there is one guy to watch out for though.
that would be gb7.
for years , he touted livan hernandez and we all know how dumb that would be.
blake December 14th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
What team does this Patience play for…..will he require Montero to acquire?
———————–
Cashman’s reaction this morning “oh thank the lord George isn’t here anymore”
Patience means biding our time. That is the salve, Cash. Don’t move while teams think we are desperate b/c we aren’t. We have all the time we need to get optimum returns for any moves we make.
Angelo – I think this is the second time I made the mistake of reading it. I blocked your host, so I can avoid further mistakes. I would have posted there, but I wanted someone to actually see the comment.
“Patience isn’t going to win us a championship, Brian. We’ve gone a year already without winning a title and our competition got much stronger. The pennant is not going to win itself… need to make moves, lots of them.”
Who got much stronger?
Last I checked, Tampa got worse and Boston added two guys who will be lucky to duplicate what they got from Martinez and Beltre last year. Those two played premium positions, Gonzalez and Crawford play essentially the two most valueless defensive positions on the field.
This concept of Boston turning into a juggernaut this offseason is a myth. If they got better, it wasn’t by very much at all.
Melk Man December 14th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
“UPDATE: “Plan B is patience.”
Patience isn’t going to win us a championship, Brian. We’ve gone a year already without winning a title and our competition got much stronger. The pennant is not going to win itself… need to make moves, lots of them.
——————–
Really man? This is why people hate Yankee fans.
“it’s not necessary to have some behind the scenes experience to have great baseball insights.”
—————–
Carlo,
Also keep in mind that even if you do have some behind the scenes experience like randy does, doesn’t mean you have great baseball insights.
Melk Man
Please ! This team won’t win every year and you don’t make stupid choices like selling the farm to get old veterans who will fail. Stop acting like a child and grow up !
Top 10 Reasons Cliff Lee signed with Philadelphia Instead of the Yankees
10. After seeing Brian Cashman dress up as an elf, he wanted to see him do his Spongebob Squarepants impression. “There is no Plan B! There is no Plan B!”
9. He really, really, really likes cream cheese.
8. Rekindle his secret forbidden relationship with The Phanatic.
7. Always dreamed of tasing a drunken fan during a game.
6. Really missed bunting.
5. In years 5 and 6 of the contract, when he’s old and sucks, those calm, understanding Philly fans won’t spit on his wife.
4. Where else can you get your meat tenderized by a loveable, washed-up boxer?
3. Like Benjamin Franklin, he just loves Philadelphia. Also like Ben Franklin, loves flying kites in the nude.
2. Philly reminds him more of Little Rock.
1. Dealbreaker: Yankees refused to replace Frank Sinatra after every win with the Oak Ridge Boys.
I can’t be the only one happy someone spit on Mrs. Lee..
C’mon!!! Its New York. You stare at any one person long enough and they’re going to spit eventually. I like our that our resume now has this on there. I like our reputation just fine, thankyouverymuch.
yeah the best thing to happen to cash is thatr the trade for lee didnt work out, if he was going to not sign here anyway. we at least save 4 people for our team or other trades.
Irreverent Discourse – Wow, TWO reads? Really, can’t thank you enough.
bronx – thanks, hit you up in the last thread.
All – did people think Cashman was going to come on this call and say “ok, now on to plan b, well, here is plan be, we intend to sign x free agent, trade a,b,c, and maybe even d for f, then we are gonna sign this guy, and when we are done with those things, we will arrange our lineup like this and our rotation like this”?
Was never going to happen. Not unlike many of these Justin Upton trades….fortunately our GM is aware that corner outfielders aren’t an area of need right now.
UPDATE, 12:38 p.m.: On the failed mid-season trade attempt: “I’m thankful even more so now that I didn’t do that.”
I hope he learned his lesson.
Looks like the Red Sox are trying to bury the Yankees…now trying to trade for Joe Blanton in helping Philly get rid of salary for Cliff Lee????Why do they need Blanton????
Cashman better start doing something as it looks like baseball has it out to get the Yankees even more than normal, but all of these teams are outspending the Yankees this offseason so they better not complain one bit ever about buying a championship, or how the Yankees outspend everyone, especially the Red Sox who are spending like crazy…
Cashman go and use the money allocated for Lee wisely:
> Get Russell Martin to be the primary catcher, excellent defensive catcher for running games of Sox, etc…
> Soriano to be the 8th inning guy and back-up closer
> Feliciano the 2nd lefty
> Damon the lefty DH, back-up LF or Bill Hall for the same role if the Damon ship can’t be re-docked and has sailed forever
> Hairston Jr, back-up infielder, utility guy
> Trade for a #4-5 starter to battle with Nova
Our offense was not clutch last year, too inconsistent vs. mediocre, unfamiliar pitching, it needs work, please look at some of the games from last year and how our bats were dead…Cashman make some moves as the rest of baseball is laughing at us and loving it!!
if i were to say do a google search for pat m, who i believe played shortstop at some point some where……what team would be best to affiliate this gentleman with?
At least Cashman’s comments pretty much mean Greinke is not happening, thank god.
http://sportsthunderdome.blogspot.com/
Dill Picker and Shame
thanks for the laugh
Wow, everyone is flipping out when Cash gives the BEST answer he could possibly give. Patience is key in the situation we’ve been put into.
If Cashman reacts like all these knee-jerk fans and trades the farm, overpaying mightily knowing people will be asking for a king’s ransom at this time. You can’t just sign people for the sake of adding new faces cause Lee chose a different team. That’s stupid and irresponsible for both the short and long term for this team.
We have a team that will be in the race for the wild card all year long, at least. We will add major pieces maybe mid-season when asking prices/demands are down.
I’m sure they’ve been weighing their options knowing this COULD have happened, and now that it did… they must be patient and let the buzz settle, thinking logically instead of illogically.
I don’t understand how people can immediately shoot down rumors of the spitting incident/how Jeter contract was handled having impact in the negotiations.
What we know is this: last season Cliff Lee was ready to come here. They were looking for places to live with CC and his wife.
Fans spit on wife.
Yankees/Jeter negotiation gets messy.
Cliff Lee takes less years and less money to play for the Philadelphia Phillies.
How many things can explain his decision? – either it was one of the two incidents above or Lee couldn’t fathom not pitching in Philly.
“I think it would be a rare situation for me to include Montero in a deal.”
The Yankee fans who spat and swore at Lee’s wife probably scored one for Boston…hee hee.
JM December 14th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
#yankeefeminista
Grew up right outside Philly as a Yankees fan (my family was originally from NYC). I know exactly what you’re talking about.
Also a very good friend of mine was stalked in Philly after Game 4 of the World Series…Had to get a security guy to follow him out to his car as he and his gf were both being harassed and had stuff thrown at them. Classy fans down there.
__________
Definitely the worse fans I have ever been among, both in terms of their provincialism and their propensity for assaulting opposition fans.
Angelo – like I said, it was a mistake and it won’t happen again. i hope they don’t charge your for the bandwidth.
corner outfielder is just what they are going to get along with a SP or 2
*worst*
Irreverent Discourse – Nope no charge. As I can see though you have MUCH more important things to do with your time. Even though we both know you’ll be back =]
http://sportsthunderdome.blogspot.com/
The LAST thing we need to do is trade Montero. Period.
At the very earliest, I believe we should at least see him in the majors for a few months… He has the potential to be something special with the bat. Nothing or nobody is a sure bet, but we have to allow ourselves the chance to SEE after all this time.
UPDATE, 12:41 p.m.: On his wide net: “I’ve stayed in touch and I suspect that the first stage of this stuff, people are going to dial up on both trade and free agent price tags on us.”
____________________________________________________________________
This is why you don’t put all your eggs in one basket and do NOTHING while you wait for Cliff Lee.
JoeyA – it’s not like the Yankee’s missed out on a FA pitcher while waiting for lee…
Overpaying for an OF does not help the rotation.
# JoeyA December 14th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
UPDATE, 12:41 p.m.: On his wide net: “I’ve stayed in touch and I suspect that the first stage of this stuff, people are going to dial up on both trade and free agent price tags on us.”
____________________________________________________________________
This is why you don’t put all your eggs in one basket and do NOTHING while you wait for Cliff Lee.
Yankee need starters. Signing Crawford/Werth/whoever still leaves us with that problem.
upstate kate – anytime!!
I really just can’t believe we’re talking about spitting being a factor here. The PED thing really has gotten no play but the spitting situation has?
I feel like I’m on Seinfeld. Should we do a reenactment? Was there an independent spitter? Are we allowed to make jokes about swallowing instead?
I. Love. New. York.
?The one thing The Boss has taught me personally is the fact that you have to get in the arena and fight. Sometimes you win the fight and sometimes you lose the fight… We’re not down and out at all.?
–
Cut the B S Cashman.. . we aren’t out . .but we are down !
Hey Angelo, stay classy, I don’t know why Irreverent is trolling you but he’s posted three times now and is definitely looking for a reaction from you. Don’t give it to him.
“Also keep in mind that even if you do have some behind the scenes experience like randy does, doesn’t mean you have great baseball insights.”
i forgot to mention lgy.
he has a very good insight on judging baseball talent which was why he gave up playing the game after t ball and went into the more cerebral aspects of the game
Rumor has it that it was Theo who spit on Cliff Lee’s wife. The Yankees-Red Sox war has no boundaries.
I still think Mrs. Lee was intimidated by the Yankee wives. Too pretty for her. And I doubt the spitting thing had that much to do with it. Lee never wanted to come here or Texas and was dragging us along until philly came around. And who said Mrs. Lee was happy about coming here in july? When she heard he was getting traded to us she called her friend to get a leg up on things. Then it fell through. Thank god.
AJ can have a breakout year, spend the money on players that can hit for average
“Shame Spencer December 14th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
upstate kate – anytime!!
I really just can’t believe we’re talking about spitting being a factor here. The PED thing really has gotten no play but the spitting situation has?”
when you say the PED thing, i really hope you are not referring to Hitmans twitter posting about lee refusing the yankee PED policy….if so, you’ve been duped….it was completely made up.
Knowing the prices that they signed for…..I doubt there is a player that has signed that the Yankees would have gotten even if they knew this outcome on Lee…..they weren’t paying those prices for Crawford or Werth….nor should they have.
SJ44 is an insider so much as he hangs onto the skirttails of his nephew.
you know they were never in this….it was Tex if not for Phil
arjay- Thank you for the kind words, they actually ARE appreciated. I know what he’s doing, sad, sad people out there.
http://sportsthunderdome.blogspot.com/
Cashman will get the job done and if he can’t, it just means the teams he was in discussions with were asking for far too much.
Sometimes the best trades are the transactions that don’t happen. Sometimes not signing a free agent ends up helping the team in the long run.
I’m actually pretty excited for this season with the way the offseason worked out. If the Yanks can’t pull of a big trade, they really will go into this season in kind of a backseat, underdog role. The Yanks haven’t been in this sort of role in my lifetime and I’m pretty interested to see how it works out. Obviously they still have a boatload of talent and a $174 million payroll is nothing to sneeze at but I’m interested to see how they play. They are still dangerous and they have a lot of young talent who could be big for a final push in September. Betances and Brackman added to the ‘pen that late could have a K-Rod or Chapman type effect back there. I’m excited regardless.
“This is why you don’t put all your eggs in one basket and do NOTHING while you wait for Cliff Lee.”
you call rappelling down a tall building doing nothing?
do you have any idea the cell phone reception you get out there ?
JoeyA – it’s not like the Yankee’s missed out on a FA pitcher while waiting for lee…
_____________________________________________________________
And now every FA pitcher and team whose willing to trade knows we are in a terrible position and will fleece us in any negotiation.
Remember all the talk about leverage during the Jeter negotiations?….
We have about as much leverage with a trade as Jeter did with the Yanks.
LGY has excellent skills at determining that one number is higher than the other
….. but stay away from him…
Here’s why I love Met fans – they are giddy about Cliff Lee going to Philly because he’s not going to the Yankees – it doesn’t even register that their team suffers from this more than if he went to the Yankees. They are the ultimate losers.
I’d really start working Pettite hard if I was Cashman. If they get him back then they have CC, Pettite, Hughes, Burnett at the very worst. I for some reason expect AJ to bounce back but then again I thought he’d come up huge in game 4 vs. Texas….
I’m sure Cashman doesn’t mind the criticism he is taking. SOME of it is warranted, because hey lets face it, he made it very clear from day 1 his main objective was to sign Lee, and he didn’t. Maybe it was going to be harder to sign him than Cash originally thought, maybe it was impossible, but that comes with the territory of being the Yankees GM. Is it 100% fair? No, it isn’t. Cash is still a good GM despite what happened here, and he said all the right things today.
http://sportsthunderdome.blogspot.com/
Carlo – “when you say the PED thing, i really hope you are not referring to Hitmans twitter posting about lee refusing the yankee PED policy….if so, you’ve been duped….it was completely made up.”
I must have been duped but its my own fault. I refuse to follow twitter if everyone is just gonna post them here on the blog, so I only catch them sporadically since people usually don’t post the word ‘twitter’ next to it. I thought it was true there was a clause in there but it wasn’t the reason why he didn’t sign (which I would believe completely).
Nice Cash, Hold on to Montero please.
Chip December 14th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
Here’s why I love Met fans – they are giddy about Cliff Lee going to Philly because he’s not going to the Yankees – it doesn’t even register that their team suffers from this more than if he went to the Yankees. They are the ultimate losers.
————————————
Yeah they are pretty irrational about these sort of things. In a 3 game series they are guaranteed of facing 2 of Lee, Halladay, Oswalt, and Hamels. They have absolutely nobody in the big leagues or minor leagues who can matchup with ANY of those 4. Maybe Johan can match up to Hamels at this point but having your ace be equal to the 4th starter on another staff is not exactly ideal. The Phils will win that division by at least 10 games with Atlanta coming in 2nd and the Mets maybe 4th if they are lucky.
Tyler
I agree.
Not sure what the whole eggs in one basket thing is. I mean they targeted the top free agent pitcher with no one else close to the talent. What other starting free agent pitchers signed elsewhere you wanted that we missed on? Yankees biggest issue is starting pitching and pen right now. There is a boat load of relievers and now with Lee gone pretty much the same weak group to engage. They can offer incentive contracts to Webb, Harden, Dushcherer and others if they wish and the first to pull the trigger they sign. The differential between those guys is the same. Did anyone else want Werth or Crawford for 7 years at that money? I’m not that high on Werth’s talent to begin with for a big deal. Love Crawford, but loved him more for less money and shorter contract. Ultimately Lee shifts things heavily one way or another, just didn’t work out.
Ledger_Yankees Says Nova “has taken the next step.”
less than 10 seconds ago via TweetDeck
Reply Retweet .
Ledger_Yankees Cashman thinks Yanks have a championship caliber rotation. Doesn’t think AJ will have another year like ’10. Talking up Hughes, CC.
1 minute ago via TweetDeck
Reply Retweet .
Ledger_Yankees “It doesn’t have to happen in the winter time,” Cashman, on plugging holes.
Oh good lord
“I’m actually pretty excited for this season with the way the offseason worked out. If the Yanks can’t pull of a big trade, they really will go into this season in kind of a backseat, underdog role. ”
there’s something to be said for that.
seriously, this is cashman’s chance to win gm of the year.
he’s got to get his butt in gear though and energize the whole organization with a scrappiness that hasn’t always been there when they’ve taken the easy way out and just signed talent by outbidding everyone else.
For Leverage maybe Cashman can get a call into Timothy Hutton.
“it doesn’t even register that their team suffers from this more than if he went to the Yankees.”
Think it’s a case of misery loving company, Chip.
If Andy comes back the Yankees do have a championship rotation. True story.
A lot of Met fans are idiots. Though I know a few who are good friends.
The Mets will fall to last place next year. I bet you that the NAts will be better than them. And I hope that the Mets continue to fail.
Lee calling Daniels personally tells me that Texas was the runner-up, and the Yanks were always on the outside looking in (spit or no spit).
C’est la vie.
arjay – i’m not trolling him, his writing is awful. i also think its rude to constantly post his blog link after everything he posts.
blake
Can’t think of a comeback right now, but don’t worry it’s coming
Somewhere Bobby Cox is thinking, “Yes I got out at the right time for sure.”
guys . . forget it . . this is our team . . we’ll probably get some useless pitcher and some bullpen help . .and thats it .
I hope Ivan Nova can get past the 4th inning !
arjay December 14th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
Hey Angelo, stay classy, I don’t know why Irreverent is trolling you but he’s posted three times now and is definitely looking for a reaction from you. Don’t give it to him.
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Because it’s against the policies of this site to post a link to your personal blog in the body of your e-mail. It’s like having to read more ads.
It does look like the Yanks never really had a chance at Lee. You just always got the feeling that CC was going to sign even through the reports that he’s a “west coast guy.” Never got those same feelings with Lee. If he really wanted the Yankees, he would have just signed as the money was there. In essence, it’s a minor win for the Yanks in that he is out of the AL but really I was never totally enamored with Lee anyway. Now, Josh Johnson sign me up and I’ll drive Montero personally to the airport. Him and King Felix are the only guys I’d give up the farm for.
Nova is to 2011 plans as Bubba Crosby was to 2006 offseason plans.
hardwired7 – I agree. The Yankees for what ever reason had to be third on the list if Lee couldn’t even pick up the phone and call them. It’s not as if both calls to Texas and NY had to be made at the same time. Just goes to show you how it really is a business.
http://sportsthunderdome.blogspot.com/
Randy, CB – do you think they can get Joba to come around. He remains an enigma, something just not right about the whole thing. I do wonder if he was pitching while injured… What’s your thoughts?
BJK – Well, if that is the case I do apologize, and will check to make sure this is true & will stop doing so. That was not my intention. Regardless it doesn’t excuse disrespectful behavior (don’t mean you), but we can’t teach people civility.
“# tyanksfan36 December 14th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
I still think Mrs. Lee was intimidated by the Yankee wives. Too pretty for her. And I doubt the spitting thing had that much to do with it. Lee never wanted to come here or Texas and was dragging us along until philly came around. And who said Mrs. Lee was happy about coming here in july? When she heard he was getting traded to us she called her friend to get a leg up on things. Then it fell through. Thank god.
”
I doubt that’s the reason…I usually leave family out of this stuff. One factor mentioned on Cowherd’s show was that his son is in remission from Leukemia and Philly has the #1 Children’s Hospital in the U.S.
How is it possible that everyone is so distraught over a pitcher with a career 112 ERA + and no out pitch NOT taking 150 million dollars over seven years to pitch here?
If we go to battle with Sabathia, Hughes, and Pettitte as our front three, we’ll be considered “underdogs” when in reality Boston finished 6 games behind that SAME front three last year.
Give me a break.
Lee probably did the call personally since he knew the Rangers guys and they flew out again even though he was already engaged with the Phillies. It’s the right thing to do. With the Yankees he had no ties to Cashman or management. His agent has more after dealing with AJ. So he didn’t really owe the Yankees anything. And no one necessarily said the meet and greet with Cashman went over well anyway. But who cares??? 2nd or 3rd or last. He isn’t here.
I don’t see where it makes any difference if Lee or Braunecker called Cashman. Lee had been a part of the Rangers for a few months, so he would have had some personal connects with that club.
I would think that once the decision was made they made the calls at the same time so one wouldn’t hear about it prior to the other.
G-C, not to mention the fact Lee had 2 more wins that Burnett last year.
For the heck of it:
Angels get: Brett Gardner, Brandon Laird, Adam Warren, Andrew Brackman
Yankees get: Jared Weaver
The Angels get the speedy OF they were hoping to get in Carl Crawford along with some good prospects
The Yankees get a solid, young, pitcher.
tampayank December 14th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
“# tyanksfan36 December 14th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
I still think Mrs. Lee was intimidated by the Yankee wives. Too pretty for her. And I doubt the spitting thing had that much to do with it. Lee never wanted to come here or Texas and was dragging us along until philly came around. And who said Mrs. Lee was happy about coming here in july? When she heard he was getting traded to us she called her friend to get a leg up on things. Then it fell through. Thank god.
”
I doubt that’s the reason…I usually leave family out of this stuff. One factor mentioned on Cowherd’s show was that his son is in remission from Leukemia and Philly has the #1 Children’s Hospital in the U.S.
—————————————
I forgot that Lee’s son had Leukemia. Hopefully he never has to suffer from that terrible disease again. Lee’s family probably had some impact on him not coming to New York but looking back on it Lee really loved Philly. He seemed just thrilled in the ’09 World Series even more so than last year with Texas. He loved Philly, he’s a proven commodity there, the fans will give him a standing ovation opening day… It’s a good fit on a good team. It isn’t because his wife doesn’t look like Minka Kelly….
New rivalry….Boston/Philadelphia.
Feb – Patriots vs Eagles in the Super Bowl
October – Red Sox vs Phillies in the World Series
New York has just become passe.
100RIX December 14th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
New rivalry….Boston/Philadelphia.
Feb – Patriots vs Eagles in the Super Bowl
October – Red Sox vs Phillies in the World Series
New York has just become passe.
—————————
Except the Eagles aren’t going to make the Super Bowl. Or even come that close for that matter.
Yay, Yankees fans!!! At least the drunk, foul mouthed ones who obviously irritated MRS. Lee!!!
It was the classy thing for Lee to call Texas personally. They gave up a lot to get him. If Cashman gave up Montero and pulled this, he would have done the same thing.
Rangers are the guy who thought they were about to keep their girlfriend from the rich guy, but instead lost her to the ex who used to beat her.
Just heard about Lee… oh well, life will go on.
So, why Philly?
The answers are fairly simple, according to a close friend of Lee’s:
* He loved the National League. He loved to hit. He loved being a baseball player, not just a pitcher.
* He enjoyed the team and city during his brief stay with the Phillies in 2009.
* He wanted to be in the same rotation as Roy Halladay, and was “devastated” that the Phils traded him after ’09 rather than put the two of them together.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....ory-121410
bronx born-
i’d like to see joba get another chance to start again because he has so much talent, but maybe the yankees know something about his shoulder that we don’t.
i wouldn’t expect him to be a star. i think that ship has sailed, but there’s no reason he couldn’t reinvent himself as a 4.5 era-5.00 era guy. that will get a pitcher a long long career at the back of almost any rotation.
it’s not what we hoped for with joba, but it’s something.
Weaver has been solid but I don’t know if I’d trade all those guys for him. Trading Gardner (and I’m not that big of a Gardner fan) would leave a hole in the OF. I wouldn’t mind trading Warren because of our great pitching depth down there and Laird but losing Brackman would hurt. I see him as at worst a dominant closer replacing Mo.
We don’t need bats. Jesus will put up Longo rookie numbers this year….. .275 25/80
(Solid innings eater)+ (3 or 4 borderline closers) > Cliff Lee
Pack the pen with closers is all Cashman needs to do for this team to compete.
And yet 100RIX finds that he must hang around a New York sports blog. Oh the irony.
“Except the Eagles aren’t going to make the Super Bowl. Or even come that close for that matter.”
That’s right. They’ll lose to Atlanta in the NFC title game.
I think we owe Jack Z. a big thank you for pulling out of the deal for Montero.
Tyler December 14th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Weaver has been solid but I don’t know if I’d trade all those guys for him. Trading Gardner (and I’m not that big of a Gardner fan) would leave a hole in the OF. I wouldn’t mind trading Warren because of our great pitching depth down there and Laird but losing Brackman would hurt. I see him as at worst a dominant closer replacing Mo.
————————–
There are OF on the market that can replace Gardner (Podsednik?)
We shouldn’t be looking at who is available now. We should be looking for who might be up as trade bait come July.
….I think Cash might know what he’s doing on this one. The season hasn’t even started yet and I bet we could all agree on at least 5 teams that have no chance. Who is starting for those teams?
“We don’t need bats. Jesus will put up Longo rookie numbers this year….. .275 25/80″
Going to be tough to do without an everyday job.
The Yankees won’t trade Gardener, IMO. He is part of the solution, not the problem. The Yankees have very, very few productive + cheap players. Gardener was prob the best bargain (a race between he and Hughes) for the Yankees buck last year. If you want the payroll to be $200M+ guys like Gardener aren’t going any where.
Couple of things:
so the entire time, everybody (me included) was thinking Lee and crew were masterfully maximizing their market value, when in fact the delay was waiting for Phils to organize an acceptable offer. -sigh-
Lee:
I personally have major concerns about Lee and the length of contract. I know our immediate appearance looks rather gloomy, but in the long run we’ll be happy this didn’t work out. I’m concerned about his back and he’s been worked hard by each team he was with.
Young Steins:
This is a good lesson for them to scrape their knees about the business of baseball. You need to field a team and can’t just focus on adding one strategic piece each FA.. (Tex/CC George was involved) The Boss didn’t work that way, and the results were that he built a highly lucrative organization and virtually always landed his man. Young Stein’s didn’t go after Holliday or Crawford and now are left empty handed. Yes, that could change, but it’s where we stand now.
Letting Crawford go to Boston with our sights solely set only on Lee, especially after Agon.. wouldn’t ever of happened with The Boss at the helm. Bet on it.
Angelo Silecchio December 14th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
The Yankees won’t trade Gardener, IMO. He is part of the solution, not the problem. The Yankees have very, very few productive + cheap players. Gardener was prob the best bargain (a race between he and Hughes) for the Yankees buck last year. If you want the payroll to be $200M+ guys like Gardener aren’t going any where.
——————–
There is no “problem” but to get quality you have to give quality and young outfielders who can catch the ball and steal a bunch of bases are a tradable asset.
Shame Spencer – awesome name, lol.
Lost- Tex/CC was not Big Stein. By that point it was Hal. Cashman has even said he had to go to Hal to get the OK to spend on Teix.
Someone needs to hand out baseball bats – the trolls are out in force today.
Chip December 14th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Tyler December 14th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Weaver has been solid but I don’t know if I’d trade all those guys for him. Trading Gardner (and I’m not that big of a Gardner fan) would leave a hole in the OF. I wouldn’t mind trading Warren because of our great pitching depth down there and Laird but losing Brackman would hurt. I see him as at worst a dominant closer replacing Mo.
————————–
There are OF on the market that can replace Gardner (Podsednik?)
——————————————————————-
Podsednik kills the Yanks but I’m pretty sure he’s around 38 years old. I hate to pay a guy who’s known for his speed any sort of money at that age. I really don’t like Gardner but Podsednik wouldn’t come close to replacing him and would actually cost more than Gardner this season probably.
It is a heck of a lot easier pitching in the national league. You only have eight offensive players and a pitcher. Halladay’s stats were better in the national league. Ask Javier Vasquez how much more comfortable it is the national league. The 24 million a year was good and the pressure is so much less so off to Philly cliffy went.
Chip December 14th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
There is no “problem” but to get quality you have to give quality and young outfielders who can catch the ball and steal a bunch of bases are a tradable asset.
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EVERY team has problem(s) the Yankees are no different. I meant there are certain guys you want to build a team around, and then there are fringe players you could move to make the core better. I think Brett is a core guy.
A Martin/Montero battery would be good imo but the thing that scares me is that neither have worked with this staff before. There is going to be a big adjustment period at the beginning of the year which many fans won’t give time to develop. Posada could help them but it’s going to be a bit tough at the start.
For the heck of it:
Angels get: Brett Gardner, Brandon Laird, Adam Warren, Andrew Brackman
Yankees get: Jared Weaver
————————–
Jered Weaver was one of the best pitchers in baseball last season.
Why would the Angels even entertain trading him for that package?
Tyler December 14th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Chip December 14th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Tyler December 14th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Weaver has been solid but I don’t know if I’d trade all those guys for him. Trading Gardner (and I’m not that big of a Gardner fan) would leave a hole in the OF. I wouldn’t mind trading Warren because of our great pitching depth down there and Laird but losing Brackman would hurt. I see him as at worst a dominant closer replacing Mo.
————————–
There are OF on the market that can replace Gardner (Podsednik?)
——————————————————————-
Podsednik kills the Yanks but I’m pretty sure he’s around 38 years old. I hate to pay a guy who’s known for his speed any sort of money at that age. I really don’t like Gardner but Podsednik wouldn’t come close to replacing him and would actually cost more than Gardner this season probably.
——————–
35 I think – but I get your point.
I agree that Pods isn’t as good as Gardner, but if you are talking about Weaver and Pods instead of Gardner – well that’s a deal I have to make.
Now; that supposes that Weaver’s available, which I doubt he is…but again – it’s worth exploring.
Thanks Yankee fans. Carl Pavano and his agent must be dealing. One has to wonder how desperate the Yankees will be to see if they will overpay to have Pavano Part 2 in the Bronx.
trading gardner is what the old stupid yanks would do.
a guy thaqt makes under a mill, at is a very valuable player, no thanks…
Its really hard to say how things would have worked out had Lee been traded to NY instead. It might have endeared him to NY having been a part of the team.
Its one of those things that you just don’t know what would have happened.
I’m glad the trade hadn’t gone through in hindsight of what has transpired to now, but we can’t say that it would have happened exactly as it now has played out.
I don’t see the Yankees making a trade just for the sake of making one. That might mean waiting till during the season, it might mean a kid coming up from the farm and making a trade moot. You never know.
Tyler December 14th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
A Martin/Montero battery would be good imo but the thing that scares me is that neither have worked with this staff before. There is going to be a big adjustment period at the beginning of the year which many fans won’t give time to develop. Posada could help them but it’s going to be a bit tough at the start.
———————-
That’s part of the reason pitchers and catchers report a couple of weeks before anyone else.
LGY December 14th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
For the heck of it:
Angels get: Brett Gardner, Brandon Laird, Adam Warren, Andrew Brackman
Yankees get: Jared Weaver
————————–
Jered Weaver was one of the best pitchers in baseball last season.
Why would the Angels even entertain trading him for that package?
———————
No particular reason – but then again I don’t anticipate them entertaining offers for Weaver at all…just tossing it out there.
Chip-
I would absolutely want Weaver and Pods instead of just Gardner. I just can’t see the Angels giving up Jared. That would kill their fan base. They obviously can’t compete in crunch time for big time free agents. Trading Weaver kills that franchise imo.
what gLee!
“Letting Crawford go to Boston with our sights solely set only on Lee, especially after Agon.. wouldn’t ever of happened with The Boss at the helm. Bet on it.”
——————–
Good thing The Boss is not at the helm then.
# Tyler December 14th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
A Martin/Montero battery would be good imo but the thing that scares me is that neither have worked with this staff before. There is going to be a big adjustment period at the beginning of the year which many fans won’t give time to develop. Posada could help them but it’s going to be a bit tough at the start.
—————–
Fair point, but I think the play calling/defense of Posada was getting to be so bad that the issue of working with a new catcher will be a step in the right direction next year, at least when it comes to Martin.
Though additional outfield help isn’t a priority, Fred Lewis would be a good insurance policy.
“If we go to battle with Sabathia, Hughes, and Pettitte as our front three, we’ll be considered “underdogs” when in reality Boston finished 6 games behind that SAME front three last year.”
To be fair about it, RS were ravished by injuries for most of the year.
—————————————————–
Cashman will make a move for a starter. Hope Andy comes back, he is needed. AJ better have a bounce back year or the fans will be all over him.
stuart a December 14th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
trading gardner is what the old stupid yanks would do.
a guy thaqt makes under a mill, at is a very valuable player, no thanks…
——————–
You can’t get a good player without giving up a good player – that is how trades work.
You know how you can tell when a fair trade has been made? When neither side is happy.
Angelo – Thanks! I try
Pavano part 2 never happens while the core guys are still there. If they were all gone maybe, but still unlikely. With Mo, Posada, and Jeter still there after witnessing that mess…. it just wouldn’t happen.
C’mon guys, what teams are gonna be trading away pitchers by July. I’m a Yankee fan not a baseball fan, so I need people reminding me who else exists..
“We shouldn’t be looking at who is available now. We should be looking for who might be up as trade bait come July.”
In terms of pitchers, I’d look at the list potential 2012 free agents. Per Cots, there a few who might be compelling. Wandy Rodriguez from the Astros is one. Heard the Stros were trying to lock him up, but nothing yet. Buerhle from the White Sox is another, though they may well compete in the AL Central. Carpenter? He has an option year, but if the Cards are struggling, they might want to move him to bolster their checkbook for the Pujols effort. Edwin Jackson? CJ Wilson? Again both those teams might be competitive.
100RIX or a 100D——————-?
Figured you would be on a different sort of board. I disgress
gLee……………… your favorite tv show or something?
GreenBeret7 December 14th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Though additional outfield help isn’t a priority, Fred Lewis would be a good insurance policy.
————————
I’ve always liked Fred Lewis. He’d be a great 4th outfielder and a guy who could start for a couple months and not really hurt the team if a guy goes down. He’d provide some nice outfield depth for sure.
What would be sweet to see is hughes turn into an ace,montero hitting at an .800 ops or better & the killer b’s ,warren,phelps,noesi or some combination of tearing it up in the minors & we fill out the bottom 2 spots in the rotation with homegrown players at league minimum.
I think boston has a slight edge at 1b,lf & that is it.
I think ss,rf is a wash & we have the edge at 3b,2b,c,cf.
It will be pitching that will decide it.
Cashman should just keep trying to trade for an ace,if he can’t he should just wait until he can.
Tyler -
My most realistic target at this point is probably Jake Peavy.
He makes a lot of money and carries a big injury question mark – but if the Yankees can get him without having to give up a major talent and/or get the White Sox to absorb some of the money – I would take the chance.
If George were alive, Lee would be a Yankee. He would have never lost him… he never lost a guy he wanted
I personally believe that the fan incident had a lot to do with it. A wife’s opinion means a great deal. Everyone can deny it and dismiss it and Lee may even come out and say it had nothing to do with it. I will still believe it.
I’m sick of Cashman using the same tired excuse as to why not to pull the trigger on a deal. He keeps saying teams will want the Yankees to overpay for top level talent when in reality, EVERY GM has to gamble when they trade for quality talent.
I friggin’ dare Cashman to do nothing this winter and go into the year with this team.
We’ll see how gun-shy he becomes when the team is trailing the Sox and his rear end is on the line.
Angelo-
Oh, I agree and I would be excited about that battery. Montero, even if he isn’t ready defensively, just can’t be that much worse than Jorge last year. Jorge was that bad at times. Martin is a veteran now so he should be able to adjust. If Martin can even get back half of what he once was, the Yanks have the best catchers in the league hands down.
In my opinion, the best thing happened. Lee went to the NL. Sure I wanted Lee, but 7 yrs at $150M+ is quite a target of a lose lose situation. One target is Yanks bought the WS! Second target was 7 yrs of possibly a guy who has 3 or 4 yrs or less left in the tank. Third, a $220M payroll would be spun by RSox Nation!
Now, the so much improved RSox will go into 2011 as the favorites and I will enjoy their choking yet again! Not to mention the ESPNers as well!
Go Yanks!
lost-
carl crawford is so over rated it’s ridiculous.
my prediction is that at some point red sox nation turns on him.
my other prediction for the morning is that once everyone digests the new situation the blog will be humming 10pm through the am hours with some solid ideas on how to progress.
the yankees are still loaded as a team. despite the appearance to the contrary with philadelphia and boston talent in MLB is really spread around . there are no super teams. the yankees are still the team to beat in my mind.
i’d be worried if the red sox had a catcher like montero coming up or another pitcher like lester.
do you realize how bad papelbon was with the red osx last year. they have problems there.
philadephia? if we have to worry about them , that means the yankees are in a world series with them. there’s no downside to that. lee is beatable in a world series . just ask the giants.
the yankees now have the league where they want them – underestimating the yankees.
“Now; that supposes that Weaver’s available, which I doubt he is…but again – it’s worth exploring”
It is, but as you suggest, he’s probablu not available. Especially true with a team that needs to make some kind of splash, be it Beltre or whatever. Trading off Weaver, even for a decent package of young players probably doesn’t sell well with the fandom out there.
# GreenBeret7 December 14th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Though additional outfield help isn’t a priority, Fred Lewis would be a good insurance policy.
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I just wish Lewis didn’t hit left-handed, GB. He’d really make our OF lefty-dominant. Would still consider him though…
We almost made it to the world series back to back we have the talent. Quit trying to buy championships and earn the next one. I am so happy Lee is not going to NY. It would be great to beat the Phillies and Lee in the world series. We field a very talented team, the bats were dead in the rangers series. That had nothing to do with pitching but alot to do with lack of heart
# Red Lobster December 14th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
If George were alive, Lee would be a Yankee. He would have never lost him… he never lost a guy he wanted
George may have been able to sell him on the team better than anyone else would have. I’d hope he would do that rather than throwing more money at Lee. The financial commitment the Yanks were ready to make for Lee was dangerous.
Chip-
I could definitely see Peavy available for the right price. I’m sure that Kenny Williams regrets that trade with the Padres as Richard alone has been better than Peavy. Peavy has had great success but I never liked him in the AL. I was glad it was the Sox who took him rather than the Yanks. But if he comes cheap, Cashman will give him a look I think.
# West Coast Yankee Fan December 14th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
I personally believe that the fan incident had a lot to do with it. A wife’s opinion means a great deal. Everyone can deny it and dismiss it and Lee may even come out and say it had nothing to do with it. I will still believe it.
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Will everyone please stop with this? If this is actually the case, Mrs. Lee is a complete and utter moron. Why? They chose the freaking Phillies and their fans instead. Worst fans in sports…
Red Lobster December 14th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
I am/was a huge George S fan, but even he lost Greg Maddux! It happens! Just move onward!
The Phillies rotation is mind boggling the more I think about it. I cannot think of a better one.
Just goes to show, if you want a player on your team, it’s better not to spit on that player’s wife during the season. And now the biggest Yankee signing is Derek Jeter. Awesome.
Karma is a female dog, ain’t it?
Extra wildcard team could mean less dumping mid season
“Angelo Silecchio December 14th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
Shame Spencer – awesome name, lol.
Lost- Tex/CC was not Big Stein. By that point it was Hal. Cashman has even said he had to go to Hal to get the OK to spend on Teix.”
And do you think Hal ignored his dad?
I wonder how much it would take to pry Carpenter from the Cardinals.
He’d be a short term solution, which is nice.
Lost December 14th, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Couple of things:
so the entire time, everybody (me included) was thinking Lee and crew were masterfully maximizing their market value, when in fact the delay was waiting for Phils to organize an acceptable offer. -sigh-
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I got familiar with your comments last night, I like the way you think and reason. Very well put together.
My problem is as follows, there are fewer and fewer impact players hitting the free agent market and when we look at the holes we need to fill in the next 2-3 years, it becomes somewhat scary.
Pitching: we need help in the rotation, if andy comes back, this is it for him
yes, we are loaded in the farm system with pitchers, but that is the one spot where expectations seldom translate to reality….we will be in the free agent market for a starter after next year, that’s for sure…and we’ll be targeting the pavano/jarrett wright types again
Infield: we are set on the right side of the infield for a while…..the left side however is a problem…..and unfortunately, unless you want to call eduardo nunez the answer, we will need to be in the free agent market for a shortstop in the next 2-3 years
Outfield: we are ok here, but could use a little more power since the power coming from the infield spots wont be enough to offset limited power from the traditional power spots
The way I see it, the farm helps us at Catcher and hopefully in our rotation……but we will need to make some free agent decisions in the coming years about position players and I am sorry to say this, but if 2011 is a repeat of 2010 for Jeter, then the time to make the move for his replacement is sooner rather than later.
Who cares if the Sox overpaid for Crawford? Who cares if he’s overrated?
He makes them a better team and that’s the bottom line.
I’m not impressed with the Boss’s offspring at all. They’re only willing to gamble on the biggest name out there when in reality every team is overpaying and gambling and being far more aggressive for every other player that isn’t a superstar.
Those 2 stooges need to get with the times.
“The Phillies rotation is mind boggling the more I think about it. I cannot think of a better one.”
so where do they weaken the team to afford this rotation?
anyone know what the philly rotation comes in at dollar wise?
West Coast Yankee Fan December 14th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
The Phillies rotation is mind boggling the more I think about it. I cannot think of a better one.
Yes they are very good right now. But what happens if Rollins gets hurt or one of their starters or even their closer. The games have to be played out and it is a marathon! They lost Werth too and maybe a couple of others soon too. Still, it is hard to argue with that staff!
personally I would rather be spit on than vomited on…but thats just me
G-C
Carp would be interesting. I live in St. Louis and the big topic is re-signing Pujols. Trading Carp would free up some money but I don’t know if that would send the wrong message to Pujols. Carpenter is definitely on the decline but he would still have success for at least another year on the Yanks. I wouldn’t give up any big time prospects for him (unless you got Wainwright somehow instead) but not a bad guy to kick the tires on.
The Yankees plans is proceeding well.
Step One: Sign Russel Martin. (Item Complete)
Step Three: Win World Series!
Lee’s wife may and probably didn’t want to come to NY.
But to think the reason for that is some stupid fan incident at YS is complete nonsense.
Good post Bret.
# Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
Who cares if the Sox overpaid for Crawford? Who cares if he’s overrated?
He makes them a better team and that’s the bottom line.
I’m not impressed with the Boss’s offspring at all. They’re only willing to gamble on the biggest name out there when in reality every team is overpaying and gambling and being far more aggressive for every other player that isn’t a superstar.
Those 2 stooges need to get with the times.
Replacing Gardner with Crawford just doesn’t make any sense at all. Signing him for 140 million to keep him away from Boston is dumb.
# randy l. December 14th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
“The Phillies rotation is mind boggling the more I think about it. I cannot think of a better one.”
so where do they weaken the team to afford this rotation?
anyone know what the philly rotation comes in at dollar wise?
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Assuming Lee is getting $24 mill in 2011 and including Blanton, Cot’s has them at $77 mill for that staff.
That’s your opinion LGY. It’s not mine nor is it shared by many others. And it doesn’t have to be the “only” reason.
G-C December 14th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
I wonder how much it would take to pry Carpenter from the Cardinals.
He’d be a short term solution, which is nice.
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I’m not sure what he would cost but it would probably be more than I want to pay for a 37-year old injury prone NL pitcher.
http://sports.espn.go.com/bost.....id=5919108
“anyone know what the philly rotation comes in at dollar wise?”
Not sure what Hamels is paid, but I’m guessing it’s in the $80M neighborhood.
“Who cares if the Sox overpaid for Crawford? Who cares if he’s overrated?”
I do. I care if he is overpaid and overrated. Why waste one of your elite money ‘bullets’ on a guy who is going to handcuff you when the opportunity for truly elite players presents itself? Cliff is elite so the money would have been worth it but that’s over. I applaud the Sons Steinbrenner for how they’ve run the club, doing a great job.
The Boss’ approach really worked from 2001-2008, right?
We are still paying for the way he ran the team those years because of how he completely depleted and ignored the farm system.
Carl Crawford on his contract would have just been another bad decision in a line of bad FA decisions made by GMS during those years.
The Yankees are much better off with Cashman and Hal running things.
I think fans here worry way too much about contracts. Major league ball clubs are swimming in cash and as the economy recovers the future is even brighter.
“The Phillies rotation is mind boggling the more I think about it. I cannot think of a better one.”
Certainly no team in baseball today has a rotation as good.
Giants – Halladay/Lee are better than Lincecum/Cain. Oswalt is better than Sanchez. Hamels is better than Bumgarner, might change in the future.
Cards – Wainwright is the only guy who I’d say could be equal to Halladay/Lee. Phillies rotation is better in every other area.
Red Sox – Halladay/Lee are much better than Lester/Buchholz. Hamels/Oswalt are better than Beckett/Lackey
Yankees – Halladay/Lee are both better than CC. Oswalt/Hamels are better than Hughes, Andy, Burnett. Wow. It’s actually scary when you think about how much better their rotation is over ours.
The only team that might be better is the 71 Orioles. But it will be very close. The Phils offense won’t be as good so I don’t know if 4 will win 20. But it will be close.
I agree that George would have never let Crawford go to the Red Sox while.waiting around on Lee…but that doesn’t mean it would have been the right move. Crawford would have been part of a good plan B at a cheaper price…..not 20 million per for 7 years, that’s a very bad contract and if they truly are going to have an operating budget then you just can’t keep adding those.
Their plan didn’t work out but I don’t think they would have done anything differently even if they knew Lee was going to Philly…..Washington and Boston grossly overpaid for something the Yankees aren’t in dire need for……
Bret – Who really cares if he makes them a better team at that cost? You would be crying just as hard if the Yankee’s had paid more for Crawford than what Boston did or more than the Nats did for Werth.
I don’t understand what you think Cashman and the Stein’s were supposed to do… magically create more FA’s to bid on?
Red Lobster – The orioles number 4 was Pat Dobson. Hamels is better.
Thanks Randy
Carl,
It always makes sense to improve the team. The Stein bro’s have shown to be paralyzed with fear in all transactions that don’t involve superstars.
The point is, GM’s and owners are gambling in the trades they make and the players they sign below superstar level.
It’s one thing to be careful and calculative but when you come out of an offseason with a big goose egg up on the board – it’s time to check your philosophy and adjust your approach.
You can be aggressive and win when you’re not afraid to lose every time.
But you can never win if you do nothing.
Every team in baseball knows the yankees are in need of starting pitching. Guess who they are asking for now? They are asking for their top prospects if the Yankees are even asking at this moment. My guess the Yankees hope is in someone who is high risk without any player loss, someone like a Justin Duchscherer who is hurt a lot but might come in and give you some innings and keep you in games. Then you need to sign some top of the game long and middle reporters and then hope a top prospect is available and ready by mid summer. They need strong offensive years from meter, a rod, and Tex too. I see Montero more as a dh. If we are honest, posada is a good offensive catcher but lacks power as a dh.
randy l:
You have to keep in mind that what you put on field does have direct impact on other revenue streams. The Redsox were down 35% in NESN Ratings last year.. Do you think the Yankees Org doesn’t consider other revenue streams when considering putting players on the field?
What we have on the field last year, speaking purely statistics was an offense where 5 of the top players underperformed considerably for one reason or another.. our pitching was absolutely terrific last year pre-allstar break.. when our pitching was losing steam, our bats did not pick them up more often than not..
You can be optimistic and be realistic.. those same 5 players are now 1 year older and you can’t expect them to be as offensive of a threat as they were in their prime. That doesn’t mean they aren’t great.
Can they have bounce back seasons, this of course is all of our hopes..
Bret -
That teams are going to overcharge the Yankees isn’t a stupid excuse – it’s a legitimate one.
The Yankees aren’t in desperate times – they shouldn’t give up a top talent for a mid level pitcher just because another GM thinks he can bleed Cashman dry.
If a deal’s out there that makes sense – rest assured that the Yankees will make it, but they’re not about to panic.
Brian once said that “if as a GM you act like a fan, sooner or later you’re going to have to buy a ticket like a fan too to see a game.”
Bottom line is Cashman failed. I don’t care how you choose to spin it.
I love this little pearl of wisdom from randy: “the yankees now have the league where they want them – underestimating the yankees.”
Yeah, no one wants to be considered a dominant lock with a terrific rotation. Note to randy: the Yankees weren’t considered threatening in the early 70s or 80s either.
“But to think the reason for that is some stupid fan incident at YS is complete nonsense”
Does seem to be quite the stretch. This is not the first tale of visiting players wives getting the business from home fans. To me it’s small change and not a key component in a decision involving millions of dollars.
As Michael Kay would say “See-ya!” LMAO
I guess Lee didn’t want to pitch in the AL East.
Top relievers that is……lol
The Phillies 2011 starting rotation is set to earn $78M as is presently constituted.
Gardner isn’t going anywhere. If Gardy were to go, who is capable of stealing a base for the Yankees?
“# 100RIX December 14th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
New rivalry….Boston/Philadelphia.
Feb – Patriots vs Eagles in the Super Bowl
October – Red Sox vs Phillies in the World Series
New York has just become passe.
”
I could see an Eagles-Patriots Super Bowl, that Eagles offense has so much speed..it’s like a video game
Different era, but I’d take this projected Phillies rotation over the 71 Orioles rotation.
Cole Hamels is your #4! A guy who was a ALCS/WS MVP and ace of their first championship, had a very good year last year, will be matched up against other team’s #4.
“He makes them a better team and that’s the bottom line.”
does he really?
who don’t they have that they could have had for 20 million this year?
plus they are going against their high on base approach and their philosophy of not giving away outs.
CC gets thrown out a lot more than he should. how does a guy that runs like that get thrown out 20% of the time?
if you don’t think red sox nation could turn on him in a heartbeat, i’ve got two business neighbors here on cape cod who are die hard red sox fans but who wouldn’t vote for obama because of his race . sad but true.
red sox nation and the red sox organization is a dysfunctional entity at best. don’t be so sure carl crawford is going to be happy there.
he may be a prime example of “be careful what you wish for because you might get it” by his dream of wanting to play in fenway.
LGY December 14th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
The Boss’ approach really worked from 2001-2008, right?
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LGY – i know the “imagine if the boss were here” statements are eating at you….but lets not disrespect the Boss because of some clueless posters
# Mr.Reco December 14th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/bost…..id=5919108
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That was about as fair an assessment as I think Curt Schilling can make. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to go throw up (as thinking about him makes me literally ill).
It’s one thing to be careful and calculative but when you come out of an offseason with a big goose egg up on the board – it’s time to check your philosophy and adjust your approach.
This is patently false, especially in an offseason where gross overpayments have been made to the players you are “wanting”.
Chip,
Which team is not overpaying right now in trades for established talent and free agent signings?
NONE.
They’re ALL overpaying.
Cashman didn’t get Lee – the worst thing he can do is compound the situation by making a shortsighted deal to try and change the story.
One of Brian’s best (and as a fan most frustrating) attributes is that he’s a very cool customer. He’s not going to panic because Lee didn’t come here or because Andy’s retiring.
I assure you that in Orlando Brian had conversations with plenty of GMs regarding fall back plans in case Lee didn’t come here – I would also gather that in the last couple of days when the Yankees felt like Lee wasn’t sold on the idea that Brian has rekindled some of those talks.
There’s a lot of time left this winter – the Yankees missed out on one big fish – but I don’t put it past them to still put together a strong offseason.
New York always is very passe. That must have been what the Pats were thinking when they cruised into the super bowl. Or maybe that was when the Yanks won the World Series not long ago when the Sox were watching them on their couches. Maybe we choose to forget a few things. Like maybe the Yankees victory over those Phillies or the Eagles winning……… well whenever.
The only year that all this spending in the offseason really paid off was in 2009. Lots of spending after the 2008 season paid off big time.
Other than that one time though every year that the Yankees have went out and spent a truckload on all these free agents, it has not worked out well and lead more than not to a first round exit.
Lets see how this all plays out next year. Pressure is not off, but is really lowered. Pressure is never completely off when you are the Yankees.
Besides give Cashman some time to work here now that Lee doesn’t have him by the balls anymore.
Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Lost December 14th, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Couple of things:
so the entire time, everybody (me included) was thinking Lee and crew were masterfully maximizing their market value, when in fact the delay was waiting for Phils to organize an acceptable offer. -sigh-
??????????????????-
I got familiar with your comments last night, I like the way you think and reason. Very well put together.
My problem is as follows, there are fewer and fewer impact players hitting the free agent market and when we look at the holes we need to fill in the next 2-3 years, it becomes somewhat scary.
Pitching: we need help in the rotation, if andy comes back, this is it for him
yes, we are loaded in the farm system with pitchers, but that is the one spot where expectations seldom translate to reality?.we will be in the free agent market for a starter after next year, that?s for sure?and we?ll be targeting the pavano/jarrett wright types again
Infield: we are set on the right side of the infield for a while?..the left side however is a problem?..and unfortunately, unless you want to call eduardo nunez the answer, we will need to be in the free agent market for a shortstop in the next 2-3 years
Outfield: we are ok here, but could use a little more power since the power coming from the infield spots wont be enough to offset limited power from the traditional power spots
The way I see it, the farm helps us at Catcher and hopefully in our rotation??but we will need to make some free agent decisions in the coming years about position players and I am sorry to say this, but if 2011 is a repeat of 2010 for Jeter, then the time to make the move for his replacement is sooner rather than later.
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As General Stonewall Jackson said to one of his generals who was worried about too many things:
Sir, don’t take counsel of your fears!!
The Yanks are loaded at key positions:
There are 6 to 8 frontline SP in the minors.
4 or 5 quality catchers with perhaps 2 or more being elite! (Montero & Sanchez)
Laird is a quality hitter & corner infielder and quite possibly a corner OF as well.
Nunez is a MLB ready SS, but still 2 or 3 years away from being an elite MLB SS.
David Adams is a very good 2B to provide some insurance for Cano.
Mesa has a huge upside as an OF.
The cupboard is far from bare!
How do you guys think the Dynasty was created?
It wasn’t because George went crazy in FA and always got his guy.
The main and just overwhelming reason for the Yankee success in the past 15 years is because they developed Jeter, Andy, Jorge, Mo, and Bernie. They developed those guys when George was suspended from baseball.
How many times did George try to trade those 5?
The huge business that George created that allowed the Yankees to retain those 5 for so many years is great and he should get a ton of credit for it.
But, people need to stop painting this picture like George was some amazing baseball owner that could do no wrong.
He did a lot of wrong when it came to personnel decisions, got lucky a number of times when trades for those 5 didn’t go through, and got stopped from doing more damage a number of times by cooler heads like Cashman or Torre in his heyday.
1997 Braves had a loaded rotation.
Lee was never coming to NY. He was either staying in Texas, or going back to Philly. We were a bargaining chip. Best to just move on. It wasn’t because some fan spat on his wife. We did everything we could to get Lee – most money (by some accounts, at least), and most years. What else were we supposed to do?
Also, the talk about the Sox becoming this great team overnight because of a few pickups is nonsense. I’ll believe it when I see it.
bret – just because everyone else is overpaying doesn’t mean it’s a good idea… that’s like elementary school level mentality.
let them choke on their over-paid players, let them choke on their lack of depth from trading away their farms and the yankees get better through inaction.
Carlo,
I loved that George was so committed to the team and the fans and built such a great thing in the Bronx.
But at some point reality has to play a role here, especially when the current regime is getting criticized.
“I think fans here worry way too much about contracts. Major league ball clubs are swimming in cash and as the economy recovers the future is even brighter.”
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It is not a matter of how much money these teams are making.
The only thing that matters is how much they are willing to spend and therefore how much each player’s salary fits into that allotted or range of allotted amounts.
The Yankees could make all the money in the world, but that doesn’t mean anything unless they decide to increase payroll a substantial amount as a result.
Brett,
It’s going to be bad enough trying to contain Ellsbury/Crawford on the bases this year… imagine trying to contain Reyes-Crawford-Ellsbury in 2011?
Sox are creating a very scary power/speed dynamic… Philadelphia Eagles-like. We need a good catcher behind the plate, a guy who can throws and control the running game. That’s probably why they signed Martin too. They can’t just put a lumbering Montero back there with his passed balls and 20% CS.
If everyone overpays for established talent via trade or free agency….THAT’S THE MARKET. At least they’re improving their teams and making it far more difficult for the Yankees to compete. This whole pic a star, freeze operations mentality wreaks of corporate suits meddling with baseball affairs. Cashman is an apologist for their lack of vision and a total worry wort of a GM. He’s the biggest wussy out there.
Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Chip,
Which team is not overpaying right now in trades for established talent and free agent signings?
NONE.
They’re ALL overpaying.
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Really? You think Boston overpaid for Gonzalez? Or the Braves overpaid for Uggla?
“Over the last three seasons, 14 pitchers in the major leagues have started at least 90 games and posted an ERA of under 3.50. Four of them now pitch in the Phillies rotation.”
http://www.philly.com/philly/b.....ushed.html
# LGY December 14th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
Carlo,
I loved that George was so committed to the team and the fans and built such a great thing in the Bronx.
But at some point reality has to play a role here, especially when the current regime is getting criticized.
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Nobody who is showing any semblance of thoughtfulness is criticizing the current regime. I just dont like seeing George disrespected. I totally agree that he had a number of shortcomings and frankly, after reading The Boss its hard to say he was anything other than a jerk…..but dont waste your time shtting on George to get a point across to people who have none of their own.
Everyone knows that George or no George, Lee wasnt coming here. George wasnt going to make him want to be here and if he didnt want to be here, then it is for the best that he is not.
The reality is, if George were here, we might be full court pressing on Carl Pavano right now.
Sox pickups the last few years – all heralded moves of course at the time
Penny, Baldelli and John Smoltz.
Lackey, Cameron, Scutaro
So why all of a sudden with the starting pitching struggles of Beckett, Lackey and Dice K and a weaker bullpen outside of Bard do we think that the loss of Beltre and V Mart replaced by Crawford and A Gone makes them light years better. That’s why you play the games and Sox fans should know better than most what injuries (Pedroia and Youk) can do along with aging stars (Ortiz, Drew, Varitek). No sure things. I would take the two additions that they got any day, but they make it seem like they lost nothing which I think is funny.
“BTX December 14th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Brett,
It’s going to be bad enough trying to contain Ellsbury/Crawford on the bases this year… imagine trying to contain Reyes-Crawford-Ellsbury in 2011?”
sox will have a rotation hole to fill via free agency next year (dice k) and a closer/setup hole depending on whether bard slides into the closer spot. the gonzalez contract becomes a lot less friendly as well come 2012. spending $15 mm per on reyes wont be a top priority for them……but should be for us despite the current contract we have in that spot.
It’s going to be bad enough trying to contain Ellsbury/Crawford on the bases this year… imagine trying to contain Reyes-Crawford-Ellsbury in 2011?
–
Don’t these people have to reach base to get steals?
The Lee’s didn’t want to play for us, fine. I really don’t want to watch players who don’t want to be Yankees play. (Randy Johnson) The fact is we don’t have a backup plan. You can’t assume Pettitte will come back. I hope Cashman is on a plane to TX now to tell him how much we need him.
I personally don’t think Cashman is a good GM. I can’t think of one solid trade he’s made. Anyone would be able to throw the most money at free agents. He couldn’t even do that right this year with Cliff Lee. Last year letting Matsui and Damon walk while signing Mr. DL Nick Johnson, Chan Ho Park, and Randy Wynn and trading Melky for Vazquez were the dumbest moves I’ve ever seen a GM make. Damon and Matsui were fan favorites who wouldn’t have cost much more money than who we signed and thrived as Yankees. At least the fans would have been happy to see them play. Johnson, Wynn, Park and Vazquez had disaster written all over them from the beginning. Dumb, dumb, dumb!!!
No Brian, don’t panic. You shouldn’t panic anyway because you should have a back up plan in place already, you jacka__. Folks please don’t kid yourselves. Boston is better this year than last year. If they hadn’t had all the injuries last year they would have probably won the AL east leaving the Yankees outside looking in. True they lost V-Mart and Beltre, but Crawford and A-Gon give them production, speed and youth. Plus their rotation is far superior to ours right now. Our 3rd and 4th starters right now are AJ and Ivan Nova. Boston’s, Beckett and Lackey, both were ACEes prior to last year.
“Sox are creating a very scary power/speed dynamic”
so why am i not scared?
i see a team that is operating out of weakness in paying crawford 20 million a year.
they were more scary when they had a left fielder like jason bay who had an OPS a hundred points higher than crawford while he was with the red sox
“Don’t these people have to reach base to get steals?”
in a rare moment of old school meeting new school we have agreement.
“One factor mentioned on Cowherd’s show was that his son is in remission from Leukemia and Philly has the #1 Children’s Hospital in the U.S.”
Because, you know, how in the world would a guy making $23 million a year ever get his child all the way from New York (or Arkansas, where his family lives) to Philadelphia????
Bret – Hi.
When you say that the Yanks should be more active in lesser players – they did that sort of thing in the past. You know, for guys like Jared Wright, Carl Pavano, Randy Winn, guys that were applauded by some at the time of the acquisition, and who left so many fond memories here.
The trick, we all know, is picking the right players. As we’ve seen with not just our team, but many others, it’s a real difficult thing to do.
Phranchise December 14th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
Totally agree! IMO, the Yanks are improved more with Montero/Martin & the loss of Vasquez provided Andy comes back!
“Over the last three seasons, 14 pitchers in the major leagues have started at least 90 games and posted an ERA of under 3.50. Four of them now pitch in the Phillies rotation.” – hardwired7
I can’t predict how well this will work out for the Phils. Maybe it will be their best season ever, or maybe it will be a huge flop. Who knows.
randy l. December 14th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
LOL! Again I agree. The Yanks beat the RSox when they had Manny & Papi in their prime plus a bunch of other very good hitters. Anyone can hit in Fenway. The Pitching is the issue and always is in beantown and I don’t believe it is any better than last year & perhaps worse. Lester was a bit spotty last year & Bucholtz made good strides but the other 3 were almost a joke. The RSox pen was 12th rated in AL which is like last! Pappelchum helped them to blow 12 saves or more.
If the RSox had signed Lee, then I’d be worried. But not right now!
100RIX December 14th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
As Michael Kay would say “See-ya!” LMAO
I guess Lee didn’t want to pitch in the AL East.
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Wish I could say the same to you ———”See Ya”
I think Yankees fans are in denial about the Red Sox not being better next year. Even assuming that Gonzales + Crawford is a wash vs. VMart and Beltre, the Red Sox were decimated by injuries more than any other team in the league. Ellsbury missed the entire year. Pedroia the 2nd half, and Youkilis 40% of the year. That is your 1-2-3 hitters right there. That is essentially the equivalent of two major players added the the roster next year.
Not to mention the idea that Beckett won’t be better than a 5.6 ERA and 6-6 is very unlikely.
I don’t think Theo is done yet either. There is the matter of the bullpen which was a giant hole. I am sure there will some filling in there.
sox will have a rotation hole to fill via free agency next year (dice k) and a closer/setup hole depending on whether bard slides into the closer spot.
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This year the Red Sox lose over $45 million from the payroll. Beltre ($9 million in 2010), Bill Hall ($8.525 million), Mike Lowell ($12.5 million), Victor Martinez ($7.7 million and Hideki Okajima ($2.75 million) have left, and they stop paying for Lugo at $7 million.
DiceK is signed through 2012.
The Red Sox also have a huge amount coming off the payroll next year. Papelbon, Drew, Ortiz add up to over $40 million.
They have plenty of room.