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Patience before and after Cliff Lee

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 14, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Yankees Wrapup BaseballAmid one report that the Rangers tried and failed to make a trade for Matt Garza last night, Brian Cashman this afternoon preached nothing but patience. He’s been using that word a lot this winter, and he seems to believe it’s as prudent as ever in the wake of Cliff Lee’s signing with Philadelphia.

“I think the first phase of this will be people trying to test us a little bit,” Cashman said. “The price tags are going to go up a little bit to see if we’ll bite because they’re going to sense blood in the water. I assure you we’re going to take patience. We’re going to pursue what we think makes sense. If it doesn’t, we’ll wait and we’ve got a good team.”

It’s easy to look back at this and think the Yankees should have been more aggressive this winter, but as I’ve written several times, it’s hard to find a completed signing or trade that made sense at the time. Nothing fit the Yankees quite the way Cliff Lee fit the Yankees.

“I’ve said he was worth waiting for,” Cashman said. “That is true. He was worth waiting for even though he’s not going to come here.”

There will obviously be plenty of second guessing in the coming days and weeks — and months — but I don’t look back and find anything the Yankees did wrong. They knew what they wanted, and they went after it. Lee also knew what he wanted, and he went after that.

Patience didn’t work, but that doesn’t mean it was the wrong approach.

“The one thing The Boss has taught me personally is the fact that you have to get in the arena and fight,” Cashman said. “Sometimes you win the fight, sometimes you lose the fight, you get knocked down and you have to pick yourself back up and keep fighting. The Boss is a fighter, the Yankees are fighters and I’m going to keep working. We’re not down and out at all.”

Associated Press photo

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150 Responses to “Patience before and after Cliff Lee”

  1. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Chad you’re exactly right – there is nothing that Cashman should have or could have done differently.

    Lee took a long time making up his mind while other players (who weren’t as good a fit for the Yankees) fell off the board.

  2. Laura - I Bleed Blue December 14th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Repost:

    Every Yankee fan that I’ve talked to about the Cliff Lee situation can only utter profanities about it. I’m pretty pissed. The idea that someone wouldn’t want to be a Yankee totally baffles me. Yes, I know that it’s arrogant of me to feel this way. Guess what? I don’t care. I’m frankly insulted that Cliff Lee would rather be a Philly than a Yankee. I’ll get over it soon, I’m sure, but today, I’m still annoyed.

  3. Rich in NJ December 14th, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    How should the Yankees have been more aggressive? The Crawford/Werth contracts are beyond idiotic.

  4. michaels07 December 14th, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    The Yankees will keep their first round pick in the 2011 draft, that`a positive.Yankees have enough starting potential in the system and even more so if Andy returns.

  5. jacksquat December 14th, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    Chad, you need a new Cashman pic. I think that one is wearing out. Plus it’s not really a good pic…

  6. Laura - I Bleed Blue December 14th, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    “How should the Yankees have been more aggressive? The Crawford/Werth contracts are beyond idiotic.”

    From what I’m reading, we never had a chance to land him. He was going to Texas if they had done the 7th year. He simply didn’t want to play for us. To that, I say **** him! You don’t want to play for the most successful team in the history of sports? Good riddance. We don’t need you. Enjoy those disgusting PHI fans.

  7. BD (Boston Dave) December 14th, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    From MLBTR:

    Cashman says Lee’s decision “doesn’t affect” Andy Pettitte, who remains undecided but is feeling the pull of retirement a little stronger than normal.
    Cashman talked about the failed Lee trade from July and said he’s grateful it didn’t happen.  At this point, he says “It would be a rare situation for me to include Montero in a deal.”

  8. Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    IMO Cashman maybe misjudged the market on Lee. He thought it would be a two horse race with the Yanks’ offer being the gorilla vs the the Texas heartstrings – instead three teams came in with approximately the same-sized offers, with the Yanks the runner-up on an AAV basis.

    As a result, the Yanks sat still while players that could have helped were signed, like Scott Downs, Ted Lilly, even Matt Diaz.

    Not saying I would have played it differently, just that it could have been played differently had the market for Lee been forecast a little better.

  9. sunny615 December 14th, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    I dunno about you, but I’m feeling pretty down and out.

  10. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    We all agree that signing Jeremy Bonderman would be a waste right?

  11. Erin December 14th, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    We had our office Christmas party this afternoon, and usually they’re extremely dull, but this year we had a raffle-and I actually won a Yankeeography Core 4 DVD. Very exciting. :D

  12. Erin December 14th, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    jacksquat December 14th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
    Chad, you need a new Cashman pic. I think that one is wearing out. Plus it?s not really a good pic?

    **************************
    I think it fits perfectly for the mood he was probably in today. ;)

  13. The Other Phil December 14th, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Glad they didn’t get stuck with that crap contract. Also glad that signs indicate he won’t trade Montero. Disappointed not to have a talent like Lee but oh well. The PHI rotation is pretty sick and he apparently liked his time there so good for him.

    ‘What’s next?’

  14. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Wave -

    I can’t disagree with you more.

    1. Lilly was re-signed even before Free Agency started so there was nothing they could have done there

    2. Had the Yankees signed Downs I would feel pretty stupid right now about giving Toronto our first round draft pick for a 35-year old relief pitcher

    3. I don’t think Lee had anything to do with Diaz – I think Diaz wanted to go to a situation in Pitt where he has the chance to win a starting job or at least see more playing time than he would in NY.

  15. Robin December 14th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    FIRE CASHMAN!

  16. randy l. December 14th, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    here’s a pretty good interactive ” who’s better” position by position by nick carfare at the boston globe:

    http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....rison?pg=5

    turns out you can vote twice by clicking twice just by refreshing and voting again.

    anyone want to help me get cano get over 50%? :)

  17. Rich in NJ December 14th, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    FIRE COSTANZA!

    Fixed.

  18. Doreen December 14th, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    Seriously, Chad, can’t we find a different file pic of Cashman???? :lol:

  19. Swishalicious33 December 14th, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    Laura, I feel the exact same way. Should I feel personally insulted? No, but I do. They’re pissed that Yankee fans supposedly spit on her? Right, because Philly fans are the pinnacle of class, what with their throwing up on little girls and running onto the field. Give me a break. The guy led both the Yankees and Rangers on and hurt both teams’ ability to sign other players with his act, and I am not happy.

  20. Erin December 14th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Rich in NJ December 14th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
    FIRE COSTANZA!

    Fixed.

    *************************

    :lol:

  21. Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Chip-

    OK, substitute De La Rosa, Garland, Kuroda. A little more $$ might have changed Diaz’ mind, and Downs is worth a draft pick if you aren’t going with Lee.

    Look, there were reasons not to favor the Lee deal and why in the long run not getting him maybe will be fine, but 2011 is not one of them. It will be a dogfight and for once you can’t saygoing in that the Yanks are most likely to prevail.

    It’s going to be a different experience entirely.

  22. Gary December 14th, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    “I think the first phase of this will be people trying to test us a little bit,” Cashman said. “The price tags are going to go up a little bit to see if we’ll bite because they’re going to sense blood in the water. I assure you we’re going to take patience. We’re going to pursue what we think makes sense. If it doesn’t, we’ll wait and we’ve got a good team.”

    _________________________________________________________________________

    Geez I never would have guessed other teams would do that. After the keystone cops so far why blame them. The last line is BS, he knows that if this team doesn’t improve itself it will again be a year with no champioship in the Bronx.

  23. YankFanCA December 14th, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Plan C is Patience. That is, Patience Watson — a hard-throwing (45 mph) left-handed pitcher in Teaneck, NJ’s Little League.

    Asked about Patience, Cashman crowed, “This kid is mature beyond her 11 years. I see her inducing a lot of ground balls. She might make the big club this summer.”

  24. saucY December 14th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Robin December 14th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
    FIRE CASHMAN!

    =-=-=-
    fire batman too….

  25. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    I still pursue a deal with the White Sox for Peavy.

    Given his contract he shouldn’t cost much in terms of prospects. The guy’s only 29 – still a strikeout pitcher (nearly 8/9 IP). He comes with some risk and there’s the question about whether or not he would want to come to NY – but if he would, I think he would be a nice 2 or 3 pitcher.

  26. randy l. December 14th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    i’ve already personally have clicked cano up .05 percent.

  27. Chad Jennings December 14th, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    I keep using that Cashman picture because it’s the perfect face for a general manager stuck waiting for a decision. But I’ll try to mix it up from now on.

    More elf costume pictures!

  28. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
    Chip-

    OK, substitute De La Rosa, Garland, Kuroda. A little more $$ might have changed Diaz’ mind, and Downs is worth a draft pick if you aren’t going with Lee.

    Look, there were reasons not to favor the Lee deal and why in the long run not getting him maybe will be fine, but 2011 is not one of them. It will be a dogfight and for once you can’t saygoing in that the Yanks are most likely to prevail.

    It’s going to be a different experience entirely.

    ———————————

    No non closer relief pitcher is worth a first round pick – and I’m not a guy who minds giving up picks.

    Garland and Kuroda stink and De La Rosa scares me in a way no pitcher since Ollie Perez has. He’s either going to be a great buy or a tremendous bust – frankly I’m happy someone other than the Yankees took that gamble.

    And why lavish cash on a guy who, at best, was going to be your fourth OF in Diaz? Heck, he signed with the Pirates – if the Yankees want him in July they can still go get him.

    I honestly don’t see it as that big a deal for this coming season – no one in the AL has greatly improved themselves.

    Would I have liked Lee, absolutely – am I ready to call this a lost season – no. For two reasons: 1. I don’t believe Cashman is done and 2. that would be silly.

  29. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 14th, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Weren’t we lucky to land Pavano and (at the time) his huge contract?

    I feel for those of you who are upset about this. I also respect those of us who are relieved he didn’t come.

    Sometimes the move you don’t end up making is the best move of all. This just may be one of those times.

    I’m excited to see what comes next. I truly think Lee would have ended uh to p being an expensive albatross. I’m still not convinced that because someone can work over the Yankees, that person should become a Yankee pitcher.

    Have faith. Good things are right around the corner.

    And hell, we never have to see him again.

    I feel much worse for Rangers fans. We were nothing more (well those of you who wanted him) than fans who wanted a player. Not enough to lose your head and heart over.

    ****************

    If anyone sees the freak who posts as “pretty in pink” or whatever the latest name is, please let him know that I don’t intend to tolerate his craziness. If he wants a fight, let him know he came to the right place. This is what the loser posted this morning:

    “@WCYF Agreed. Of course we’ll see the positive spinsters on here make this out to be a good thing. But the only thing to be gained from the trishas of this blog is a laugh at their psychosis.”

    Psychosis? You are going to go down pal if you mess with me again. Count on it. There are a bunch of people lined up just waiting to see you get yours. Don’t push me.

    :)

    Thanks.

  30. Robin December 14th, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Phillies contract is 5 yrs for 120 (24 per year) with a vesting option for a 6th year.

    How in hell did the Yanks get outbid by Texas (total package) and by Philly (on a per annual basis)???

  31. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    Wave -

    I would actually prefer the Yankees take on the injury projects like Harden, Francis, Webb, Wang or Young rather than sign guys like Garland or Kuroda.

  32. YankFanCA December 14th, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    Trisha is finally right on one thing: We won’t have to see Lee again. He will be pitching in the Fall Classic and our boys will be arranging tee times.

    Beware the pom-pom wavers.

    Note to Cashman: Though you are an elf, you can take as well as give.

  33. vinny-b December 14th, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    good for Cashman.

    bad for the legions of spoiled Yankee fans who want immediate reaction/gratification. The type who have to win the off-season and the regular season.

    be patient, Cashmoney. And don’t pay the media and detractors any mind.

  34. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    I’ll give you a guy who wouldn’t be an awful pickup as a FA for a very low amount (and by low I mean minor league contract with an invitation to spring training where he can compete for a job):

    Rodrigo Lopez

  35. 4 NYY December 14th, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    That’s the way the cookie crumbles. FOR NOW !

  36. Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    Chip-

    There is no room in AAA or AA to take on injury projects. Every one you take on will cost one Yank minor league starter an opportunity and that would be a big mistake, IMO.

    Garland or Kuroda would have been fine as a #4 or a #5 – de la Rosa too. If Andy doesn’t come back, that’s the quality the Yanks are going to get in a deal anyway and lose minor league assets in the bargain.

  37. Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Laura – I Bleed Blue December 14th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Repost:

    Every Yankee fan that I’ve talked to about the Cliff Lee situation can only utter profanities about it. I’m pretty pissed. The idea that someone wouldn’t want to be a Yankee totally baffles me.

    —————————————————————————-

    I am not angry nor am I confused……I am hurt that Cliff Lee wouldn’t want to play for the Yankees. That is the best way to describe it. It is unconscionable to me that someone would not want to play for us and would disrespect us in this manner.

    I am not mad at Cliff, but I have far too much respect for the Yankees to be anything but hurt by someone so high profile shunning us.

  38. Doreen December 14th, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    Erin -

    Congratulations!!!

  39. retire51 December 14th, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    Been doing a lot of reading without any posting today. My reactions/opinions:

    Soriano should be the yankees biggest target although I understand he would prefer to be a closer. While we would have to overspend, picking up him and Wood would be a very solid plan B. (Toss a type B lefty in too)

    Let’s stop talking about Jose Reyes. Enough Said.

    The only pitchers worth trading Montero for are King Felix and J Johnson.

    Hudson/dereke Lowe would be a bust in the AL East.

    In conclusion, while there is no need for panic, the Red Sox with out a doubt have taken a major step on to the same level as the yanks. People should not underrate AGon. He has been a top 5-10 offensive player in baseball for 3-4 years in a serious pitchers ballpark. He is with out a doubt a step up from beltre or victor. Carl Crawford and Agon are without question better than beltre and victor martinez.

    It will be close this year. The red sox top 3(-4?) starters are better overall than that of the yankees as well. It makes sense to wait until the season or a good opportunity emerges.. If its felix and Johnson, trade the f-ing farm.

  40. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    Wave –

    The Scranton rotation last year had guys like Dustin Moseley, Jason Hirsch, Tim Redding, and Kei Igawa in it.

    If the Yankees signed Rich Harden and either Francis or Young and one of them needed more than spring training and extended spring training to get ready then I’m sure the Scranton rotation could support them.

    As for Garland and Kuroda – there are guys that are just as good as them still available:
    Millwood, Bonderman, Capuano, Doug Davis, Justin Duchscher…

  41. Doreen December 14th, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    Chad -

    Yes!! The Elf picture (at least till Xmas!) :)

  42. Jerkface December 14th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    As for Garland and Kuroda – there are guys that are just as good as them still available:
    Millwood, Bonderman, Capuano, Doug Davis, Justin Duchscher…

    Kuroda is way better than Garland and any of those players you just listed.

  43. vinny-b December 14th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    I am not angry nor am I confused……I am hurt that Cliff Lee wouldn’t want to play for the Yankees. That is the best way to describe it. It is unconscionable to me that someone would not want to play for us and would disrespect us in this manner.

    I am not mad at Cliff, but I have far too much respect for the Yankees to be anything but hurt by someone so high profile shunning us.
    ————————————————–

    how pathetic. Sad and pathetic

  44. Laura - I Bleed Blue December 14th, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    “They’re pissed that Yankee fans supposedly spit on her?”

    I’m not even sure that’s why he turned our offer down. Maybe he didn’t like Cashman. Maybe he didn’t like the way the Jeter negotiations were handled. Maybe he just doesn’t like New York City. I don’t know. I just find it odd that a player would turn down such an opportunity. You can go anywhere and say that you are a New York Yankee and people will know what that means. Can the same be said about the Phillies? When people think of the Yankees, they think history, winning, money and talented legends. Whenever I think of the Phillies, the first thing that comes to mind is how awful their fans are and that they have lost more than they’ve won. Seemed like an easy choice to me.

  45. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    By the way – my sleeper internal candidate to take a spot in the rotation (isn’t really a sleeper) David Phelps.

    I think if the Yankees come into Tampa with a competition for the last spot in the rotation he could take it.

  46. Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    “The Scranton rotation last year had guys like Dustin Moseley, Jason Hirsch, Tim Redding, and Kei Igawa in it.”

    Chip-

    2010 is dead and buried. The top 5 starters in Scranton and Trenton are going to all be excellent major league prospects, every one of them.

    And I don’t agree with the rest of it either.

  47. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    Jerkface December 14th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
    As for Garland and Kuroda – there are guys that are just as good as them still available:
    Millwood, Bonderman, Capuano, Doug Davis, Justin Duchscher…

    Kuroda is way better than Garland and any of those players you just listed.

    —————–

    Kuroda also pitched in one of the most pitcher friendly divisions in all of baseball and is 100 years old.

  48. pat December 14th, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    Yankees are going to walk off on Boston on Yankee Classics on YES- Good times!

  49. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 14th, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    “Trisha is finally right on one thing: We won’t have to see Lee again. He will be pitching in the Fall Classic and our boys will be arranging tee times.

    Beware the pom-pom wavers. ”

    :lol:

    Beware the chicken littles!

  50. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
    “The Scranton rotation last year had guys like Dustin Moseley, Jason Hirsch, Tim Redding, and Kei Igawa in it.”

    Chip-

    2010 is dead and buried. The top 5 starters in Scranton and Trenton are going to all be excellent major league prospects, every one of them.

    And I don’t agree with the rest of it either.

    ——————

    Don’t just look at 2010 – all teams – every single one – every year stashes a veteran or two in AAA for insurance in case of injury.

    It’s moot anyway since a rehabbing player like Harden for example wouldn’t need a AAA roster spot except to make a rehab start.

    He would come into spring training and if he wasn’t ready to go when the season started he would remain in Tampa at extended spring training until he was ready. At which point he would make a start or two and then join the big club.

  51. Pat M. December 14th, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Laura…..Cliff Lee is going to be part of a very historic run in Philadelphia…..That club is going to be very good for the next 3-4 years…….And without all the heat that comes with playing in the Bronx……

  52. West Coast Yankee Fan December 14th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    I hope our young players turn out to be studs. But the B’s and Montero have done nothing in the major leagues to date. The stat books are filled with hyped prospects that turned out to be big fat zeros. Promising? Sure. Highly rated? Sure. Depending on them for anything substantive in the near future? Not a chance. And the long term is a crap shoot too.

  53. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 14th, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    Laura and Carlo – There are many reasons players choose their venues. I respect any player’s right to decide that the Bronx isn’t the place he wants to play.

    I’m also happy he didn’t choose the Bronx, but that aside, he really isn’t the first player who said he didn’t want to play for the Yankees. And the Yankees actually survived, thrived, and won world series without those players.

    It’s okay for someone to choose to play elsewhere. Really your egos can’t be built around rooting for the Yankees, can they? Don’t you root for them because YOU love them and it doesn’t really matter how anyone else feels about them?

  54. Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    “Don’t just look at 2010 – all teams – every single one – every year stashes a veteran or two in AAA for insurance in case of injury”

    Does every single team have AAA and AA rotations the way the Yanks will in 2011? Have you listed the rotation candidates?

  55. Erin December 14th, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    Doreen December 14th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
    Erin -

    Congratulations!!!

    *********************
    Thanks Doreen :)

  56. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    In 1989 the Mets had a rotation of Dwight Gooden, David Cone, Frank Viola, Ron Darling and Sid Fernandez – far and away a better, more dynamic rotation than what the Phillies are running out there.

    They won 87 games.

    Nothing’s written in stone.

  57. Doreen December 14th, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    Pat M -

    I don’t know about crowning the Phillies just yet. Nor would I say there won’t be the heat of the Bronx.

    They’ve now set expectations very high. And remember, they didn’t get to the WS with 3 of those 4 already in place and lost a WS with 2 of the 4 in place.

  58. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
    “Don’t just look at 2010 – all teams – every single one – every year stashes a veteran or two in AAA for insurance in case of injury”

    Does every single team have AAA and AA rotations the way the Yanks will in 2011? Have you listed the rotation candidates?

    ————————-

    I understand what you’re saying – but I will say it again. A rehab project like Harden, Francis, Young, Wang or Webb – doesn’t take a AAA or AA rotation spot except for a rehab start.

  59. AlbanyYankee December 14th, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Question on Phelps. He doesn’t seem to miss many bats when I look at his minor league numbers. What does he have that makes people project him into the big league rotation? As a Notre Dame grad, I’m rooting for him, but just haven’t seen a scouting report on him.

  60. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 14th, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Pat M, so the Phillies decided that they didn’t like losing to SF and they wanted to get back to the WS. Cliff Lee decided that the NL suited him better than the AL. It’s pretty simple.

    I’m dumfounded that everyone thinks that someone who leaves money on the table is an oddity. I actually have more respect for Lee than I did before he made his decision.

  61. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    AlbanyYankee December 14th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
    Question on Phelps. He doesn’t seem to miss many bats when I look at his minor league numbers. What does he have that makes people project him into the big league rotation? As a Notre Dame grad, I’m rooting for him, but just haven’t seen a scouting report on him.

    ———————

    141 Ks in 160 IP last year (AA and AAA combined) suggests he misses enough

  62. Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    # vinny-b December 14th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    I am not angry nor am I confused……I am hurt that Cliff Lee wouldn’t want to play for the Yankees. That is the best way to describe it. It is unconscionable to me that someone would not want to play for us and would disrespect us in this manner.

    I am not mad at Cliff, but I have far too much respect for the Yankees to be anything but hurt by someone so high profile shunning us.
    ————————————————–

    how pathetic. Sad and pathetic
    ————————————–

    Whats pathetic about me being a Yankee fan and having an ace pitcher tell the yankees he wants nothing to do with them and that bothering me? I dont anything pathetic or sad about that.

  63. Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    “A rehab project like Harden, Francis, Young, Wang or Webb – doesn’t take a AAA or AA rotation spot except for a rehab start.”

    Sure, Wang or Harden will go to Tampa, fix themselves up and leap into the Yank rotation after a rehab start.

    Not.

  64. randy l. December 14th, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    pat m-

    why did the dodgers have martin play so many games?

    he played way too many games almost every season to be at full strength.

  65. LGY December 14th, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Hiroki Kuroda was the one guy that stings a bit to miss out on.

    He would have been a good pickup.

  66. LGY December 14th, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Especially since Kuroda signed for only 1 year.

  67. Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    A fine day of dumpster diving today.

  68. Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Although I believe Harden is currently healthy, isn’t he?

  69. joeman December 14th, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    wonder what the Dodgers would want for a Kemp & Ted Lilly ( big contract) combo

  70. Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    “why did the dodgers have martin play so many games?”

    Who managed the Dodgers while Martin was there? I forget.

  71. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 4:47 pm
    “A rehab project like Harden, Francis, Young, Wang or Webb – doesn’t take a AAA or AA rotation spot except for a rehab start.”

    Sure, Wang or Harden will go to Tampa, fix themselves up and leap into the Yank rotation after a rehab start.

    Not.

    ————–

    Extended spring training can last a month or more. So yeah, Wang or Harden would come in, get their rehab in, get to the point where they can pitch in games while in spring training or extended spring. At that point they would go on rehab assignments – just like any other injured pitcher does coming back from the DL – and then they would be in the majors. These guys wouldn’t sign minor league deals and a pitcher on a ML contract can only make so many starts in the minors before he has to be activated or shut down again.

  72. Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    # trisha – true pinstriped blue December 14th, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    Laura and Carlo – There are many reasons players choose their venues. I respect any player’s right to decide that the Bronx isn’t the place he wants to play.

    I’m also happy he didn’t choose the Bronx, but that aside, he really isn’t the first player who said he didn’t want to play for the Yankees. And the Yankees actually survived, thrived, and won world series without those players.

    It’s okay for someone to choose to play elsewhere. Really your egos can’t be built around rooting for the Yankees, can they? Don’t you root for them because YOU love them and it doesn’t really matter how anyone else feels about them?
    ——————————————————————–

    Have no idea how my ego comes into any of this….rather random tangent actually. I root for them because they are my favorite team and I want to see them win…….I like to think that while everyone outside baseball doesnt love the yankees, they respect them, and that players see the Yankees as a legendary organization that they would want to be a part of if given the opportunity……it bothers me that the latter is not the case in this instance. I see playing for the Yankees as the pinnacle of baseball players career and i chose to believe that big time performers would share that view. they clearly dont.

  73. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 4:48 pm
    Although I believe Harden is currently healthy, isn’t he?

    ——————-

    Healthy and Harden are relative terms.

    But yeah, if he were to sign I would imagine he’s probably healthy enough to go north with the Yankees. It’s not like he’s coming of TJ or something.

  74. Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    Wangs agent, Alan Nero I believe, told the Nationals he would be ready to pitch in May last year…….how’d that work out. Pass on Wang, no need to be nostalgic.

  75. backbench December 14th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    Texas interested in Wang?

    NYYs can ( and should) take this as a challenge. Hopefully we will see a very competitive team with everyone contributing and the manager really stepping up his game.

    2011 season is going to be a doozey!! Go Yanks.

  76. Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    “But yeah, if he were to sign I would imagine he’s probably healthy enough to go north with the Yankees. It’s not like he’s coming of TJ or something.”

    Subtract the d and I’d want Harden in the Yank rotation.

  77. Jerkface December 14th, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    Harden sucked and had shoulder issues, pass. I’d go after Wang, I guess, if he would sign a super cheap minor league deal. But Wang, and Webb are big question marks due to the shoulders.

    Webb is a complete no go because he can’t even throw 90 mph

  78. Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    jerkface, these guys are Chip specials…

  79. Laura - I Bleed Blue December 14th, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    “Laura…..Cliff Lee is going to be part of a very historic run in Philadelphia…..That club is going to be very good for the next 3-4 years…….And without all the heat that comes with playing in the Bronx……”

    In theory. A lot has to go right for a team to win year after year after year. They SHOULD be good for the next 3-4 years. I’ll be watching very closely to see if that actually happens.

  80. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
    Wangs agent, Alan Nero I believe, told the Nationals he would be ready to pitch in May last year…….how’d that work out. Pass on Wang, no need to be nostalgic.

    ————————–

    Ok, so swap out Wang with Francis, Young, Bonderman or Webb – makes no difference to me.

  81. Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    Rich Harden, great addition, he can definitely be counted on for 200 innings, over the course of a 3 year deal. Get real, the guy absolutely stinks and is still living off the decent years he had in 2004 and 2005. Oh, by the way, its been 6 years since the guy even threw 150 innings in a season.

  82. Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    Lee’s decision had nothing to do with love of city or history or nostalgia. First of all, the Phillies offered the highest AAV to Cliff Lee.

    2nd and perhaps more importantly, he’s going to the NL to pad his stats for 5 years with the idea that this is not his last contract.

    His 6th year option pays him 27.5 million dollars.

    He will finish his Phillies contract at age 38 with impressive NL padded numbers. He’ll be in a position to land consecutive multiple year contracts on the same team who paid Moyer through age 47.

    As long as he stays in the NL, he’s giving himself the best chance to not only pitch 5,6 or 7 more years but to play and get paid 5-10 years beyond that, just like Moyer.

  83. LGY December 14th, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    “Ok, so swap out Wang with Francis, Young, Bonderman or Webb – makes no difference to me.”

    ——————–

    Those guys stink.

    If the Yankees can’t make a move for a legit starter or 2 they are better off just using guys like Nova than wasting time on scrubs.

  84. G. Love December 14th, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Some of you guys are really being short sighted. The injured guys like Wang, Webb and Harden (and even Mark Prior) are signed as a 6th rotation option. They don’t cost a lot since it’s a roll of the dice. If they don’t work out you let them go. If they do work out you struck oil.

    The Yankees would never pass one of those guys off as a given in the rotation, but they should sign one as a wild card with low expectations.

  85. Pat M. December 14th, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Randy……Russell Martin was the heart and soul of the LA Dodgers and when Joe Torre arrived he just made Martin his unofficial team Captain……In order for the Dodgers to win, Torre knew he needed Martin……..Doreen & Tricia, It now appears that the Yanks didn’t offer the most money or the most appealing package……And Doreen you’re right about everybody giving the Phils the NL Pennant in December, as they will look like a much different ballclub when they report to Clearwater in 2 months……..Jason Werth will be missed and their batting order had prolong funks at times over the past few years……They are a very good looking club on paper still……Impressive staff

  86. Jerkface December 14th, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    Ok, so swap out Wang with Francis, Young, Bonderman or Webb – makes no difference to me.

    All these guys have shoulder issues or suck.

    Francis: Shoulder surgery
    Young: Shoulder surgery
    Bomberman: Shoulder issues in 09, sucked in 2010
    Webb: Cannot throw 90 mph and had shoulder surgery

    Those are not guys you take chances on. Find some damn elbow injury pitchers for pete’s sake.

  87. joeman December 14th, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    load up on LH SP….. Ortiz,Gonzo,Drew,Crawford,Ellsbury

  88. G. Love December 14th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    I think there are a lot of people, myself included, who owe Betsy a bit of an apology for railing on her when she was pessimistic about Lee.

    Turns out she was right.

    He went where his heart took him to and basically did treat free agency like he was being recruited by his favorite college.

    I just wish I knew what soured the Lee’s on NY since every word around the time of the almost trade was he wanted to be here.

  89. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
    jerkface, these guys are Chip specials…

    ———————-

    Harden before last year pitched where…that’s right Chicago. Who was his pitching coach with the Cubs? Larry Rothschild.

    How’d Harden do in his year and a half in Chicago with Larry?

    12 starts in 08 after being traded over:

    71 IP, 89 k, 30 bb, .97 ERA

    09

    141 IP, 171 k, 67 bb, 4.09 ERA

    Yeah – can’t imagine why any team would take a gamble on him…

    Seriously people you’re not looking for ACES at this point – just a guy who can fit in the back of the rotation.

    Harden is 29 and easily the most talented pitcher on the free agent market.

  90. Chip December 14th, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    Jerkface December 14th, 2010 at 4:59 pm
    Ok, so swap out Wang with Francis, Young, Bonderman or Webb – makes no difference to me.

    All these guys have shoulder issues or suck.

    Francis: Shoulder surgery
    Young: Shoulder surgery
    Bomberman: Shoulder issues in 09, sucked in 2010
    Webb: Cannot throw 90 mph and had shoulder surgery

    Those are not guys you take chances on. Find some damn elbow injury pitchers for pete’s sake.

    ———————————

    I’m not suggesting you give them 5 year $100 million dollar deals – you get that right?

    1 year, low base, lots of incentives – maybe an option year…if it doesn’t work you cut bait. Like the Sox did with Penny and Smoltz.

  91. G. Love December 14th, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    Chip,

    I’m all for giving Harden a chance with his old pitching coach as long as Cashman doesn’t sell him to us as one of the 5 starters.

    Let him come in here and seize a rotation spot from someone.

    I think a guy like him should definitely be in the mix.

  92. strongbad56 December 14th, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    Guys, Cliff Lee didn’t insult the Yankees; stop putting words into his mouth. It wasn’t about his wife’s experience at Yankee Stadium, it wasn’t about the pressure, and it wasn’t about the money. All three offers were fairly comparable. Philly offered him less overall money, but more per year, and the overall total wasn’t that far off. Because money wasn’t the biggest factor for him and all the offers were fairly similar, he picked based on which team he wanted to play for. He didn’t pick Philly because he didn’t want to pitch in New York; he picked Philly because HE WANTED TO PITCH IN PHILLY. He had played there before, and he really like the city, the team, the atmosphere, etc. He also knew that pitching for them would give him a good chance of winning a championship. Yeah, I wish he had chosen New York, but the bottom line is, money was not the most important factor for him. He didn’t insult the entire Yankees franchise because he chose Philly for slightly less money (though more per year). He simply knew that he liked pitching for the Phillies previously, and he had wanted to spend his entire career there. So when they gave him a good offer, he accepted. It’s as simple as that.

  93. Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    Lee bolted to the NL because the AL East was a threat to end his career after the 7 year Yankees deal.

    In the NL, he’ll get 6 with the Phillies and 4 more on top of that based on NL numbers.

    This is about money.

    I said all along that Lee is a mercenary. He is.

    He took the highest AAV combined with the location that sets him up for an additional multiyear deal on top of this one.

  94. Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    # Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
    Wangs agent, Alan Nero I believe, told the Nationals he would be ready to pitch in May last year…….how’d that work out. Pass on Wang, no need to be nostalgic.

    ————————–

    Ok, so swap out Wang with Francis, Young, Bonderman or Webb – makes no difference to me.
    ——————-

    Jeff Francis – was last seen pitching decently in the NL West in 2007….where, by the way he never pitched to a sub 4.1 ERA

    Bonderman – had a good year in 2006, otherwise he would likely be in the minors

    Webb – topping out at 84 mph, pitched almost 1,200 innings between 2004 and 2008 and has thrown a total of 4 since

    Young – again, last good season he had was 2007 and it was in the NL west and he has never struck out more than 170 batters in a season……that stuff doesnt translate to success in the Al East

  95. joeman December 14th, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    get me Lily & Andy ….LHRP, a hitter and bring on Boston

  96. hman23 December 14th, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    # Chip December 14th, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    In 1989 the Mets had a rotation of Dwight Gooden, David Cone, Frank Viola, Ron Darling and Sid Fernandez – far and away a better, more dynamic rotation than what the Phillies are running out there.

    They won 87 games.

    Nothing’s written in stone.
    _____________________________________

    Yup.

    And who can forget Atlanta and all the World Series titles they won in the 90s with their hall of fame rotation.

  97. NDYankee December 14th, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    Lee wasn’t coming here. If it wasn’t Philly, it would have been Texas. According to this article, Texas could have had him if they added the seventh year: http://trsullivan.mlblogs.com/.....o_lee.html

  98. scargo1013 December 14th, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    I’m happy the Yanks don’t have another potential 40 yr old on their roster. The only risible thing (yes, we were hysterically laughing) was Cashman saying that AJ Burnett would “rebound” next year. Does he mean Burnett will rebound to his usual .500 winning ways?

    The Burnett acquisition was the one of the worst ever. The only team Burnett beat was the Yankees.

    If Montero is traded, I’ll stop rooting for the Yankees. It’s hard to support an old-age club.

  99. Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    G Love-

    I disagree with you for three reasons.

    First, as of now, the Yank rotation is CC, Hughes, Burnett and two other guys. The only for sure there is CC. The Yanks don’t need gambles, they need good innings.

    Second, the upper level of the Yank minor league system are full of pitchers who could take the next step forward. I don’t want to detract from their opportunities with a gamble – the opportunity lost may be that of the minor league pitcher who was going to take that step but didn’t because his innings were going to Rich Harden.

    Third, I see guys like Wang taking one year deals only. No real upside for the Yanks.

  100. Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    # Chip December 14th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
    jerkface, these guys are Chip specials…

    ———————-

    Harden before last year pitched where…that’s right Chicago. Who was his pitching coach with the Cubs? Larry Rothschild.

    How’d Harden do in his year and a half in Chicago with Larry?

    12 starts in 08 after being traded over:

    71 IP, 89 k, 30 bb, .97 ERA

    09

    141 IP, 171 k, 67 bb, 4.09 ERA

    Yeah – can’t imagine why any team would take a gamble on him…

    Seriously people you’re not looking for ACES at this point – just a guy who can fit in the back of the rotation.

    Harden is 29 and easily the most talented pitcher on the free agent market.
    —————————————————————-

    You said it yourself, a guy that can fit in the back of the rotation…….Harden would fit squarely in the back of the rotation……for about a month and a half of the year….before he went on the DL for the balance of the year. You dont fill the back of the rotation with high upside/low probability of playing baseball type guys. Waste of time/money/roster spot

  101. joeman December 14th, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    staff..

    CC
    Hughes
    Andy
    AJ
    LILY

  102. G. Love December 14th, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    The Dodgers JUST SIGNED Ted Lilly to a 3 year deal. They are not trading him before the ink on the contract dries and they get a chance to use him.

    Bottom line, Cash should have traded for him last season before the Dodgers did. We could have used him. We always could have used him. Stupid Torre didn’t want him and didn’t like him for some reason and we dealt a young lefty who pitches with heart and strikes guys out.

  103. joeman December 14th, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    # G. Love December 14th, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    The Dodgers JUST SIGNED Ted Lilly to a 3 year deal. They are not trading him before the ink on the contract dries and they get a chance to use him.

    Bottom line, Cash should have traded for him last season before the Dodgers did. We could have used him. We always could have used him. Stupid Torre didn’t want him and didn’t like him for some reason and we dealt a young lefty who pitches with heart and strikes guys out.
    —————————————

    Want him even more now

  104. Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    You guys understand that whoever Harden signs with, he’s going to pitch for, don’t you? That he isn’t going to be signing a minor league spec deal?

  105. Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    It’s such BS that Cashman says the team doesn’t have too many holes when there are really only 3 starting pitchers, including AJ. He’ll sit around and waste more time, trying not to act desperate but teams still know that he IS indeed desperate so sitting around and wasting time only wastes time. It doesn’t make you any less desperate. I can’t wait until the Stein Bro.’s turn on him. He’s such a scared little hypochondriac.

  106. Captain Clutch December 14th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Lee wanted to pitch in Philly…fine. But I wonder why he didn’t want any part of pitching here and it was obvious that the Yanks were his 3rd option. Texas got a counter offer and the Yanks got nothing. So much for how much he wanted to pitch here and CC saying we won’t have to do much recruiting. You would think CC or someone would of known that he had zero interest in being here. I am sure Lee’s agent knows that the Yanks would of raised their offer if asked but they were never asked to do so.

  107. Jerkface December 14th, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    1 year, low base, lots of incentives – maybe an option year…if it doesn’t work you cut bait. Like the Sox did with Penny and Smoltz.

    The problem is, these guys you are targetting would be killing the rotation for 2 months before the Yankees cut bait. Incredibly cheap minor league deals with no promise of a rotation spot? Yes. 1 year MAJOR LEAGUE DEALS? No.

    Did you see what Smoltz did to the red sox??? Sank them. 5 wins and a bunch of wasted time.
    And Brad Penny?

    5+ era’s???

    Shoulder surgery is serious and not worth taking risks on.

  108. Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    # Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    You guys understand that whoever Harden signs with, he’s going to pitch for, don’t you? That he isn’t going to be signing a minor league spec deal?
    ——————————————–

    Yeah, usually when a guy signs with a team in the offseason, he plays for that team in some capacity. That tends to be how it always works.

    So yes, the answer to your question is yes, i would think most of us understand that.

  109. G. Love December 14th, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    Wave,

    I think you’re being a little too optimistic for AA guys to be able to walk up to the majors and win next year.

    Those guys are still a year away. September callups or August callups to the bullpen is a little more realistic. They’ll all have pitch limits.

  110. hardwired7 December 14th, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    Matt Guerrier would be a good signing for the pen if he backs down from his contract demands (he’s supposedly looking for a Benoit-type contract).

    He has even splits, and whoever signs him doesn’t have to surrender a draft pick.

    Boston’s already given him an offer, but evidently it wasn’t enough to seal the deal.

  111. Jerkface December 14th, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    He’s such a scared little hypochondriac.

    Don’t you seem like the really scared hypochondriac? Project much? You are in here crying about everything not going your way. Oh no we didn’t get crawford, its the end of the world! Quick give the yankees vaccinations of Jose Reyes before the Red Sox get him!

    Scared. And making up gloom and doom. Just like a hypochondriac.

  112. Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    Jerkface,

    You’re the one projecting because I’m undressing your little idol bean counter.

  113. Jerkface December 14th, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    How am I projecting? I’ve not said anything except respond to what you yourself have said. You might not know the meaning of projecting.

  114. J. Alfred Prufrock December 14th, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan December 14th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
    I hope our young players turn out to be studs. But the B’s and Montero have done nothing in the major leagues to date. The stat books are filled with hyped prospects that turned out to be big fat zeros. Promising? Sure. Highly rated? Sure. Depending on them for anything substantive in the near future? Not a chance. And the long term is a crap shoot too.

    ///I find it interesting that you feel compelled to wax philosophic on prospects’ “hype” getting the better of commenters,yet are ready to declare Buccholz a “solid No. 1 on most teams,” despite one season of success and high BB, low K rates,which you dismiss out of hand.It’s also hot air to say Montero has “not a chance” to provide anything “substantive” in the “near future.” What is the “near future”? April? June? Because it’s altogether possible he goes through a period of adjustment and then finds his stroke,as he did in Scranton last year, going on a tear the second half.Since you seem to be so big on bylines and those who analyze baseball for their livelihood,you might consider there isn’t a single outlet, not one, that does not project success for Montero’s bat at the MLB level.He’s routinely compared with Frank Thomas, Miguel Cabrera, in other words, rarified hitters and he hasn’t even stepped into the box yet against a ML pitcher in an actual MLB game.As for the Bs, Brackman coming out of the bullpen for the Yankees later in the season isn’t out of the question, if that qualifies as the “near future.” The more I read your posts,the more you seem to have one goal: to ridicule all things to do with the Yankees and elevate everything Boston does, no matter how far fetched.I am now beginning to suspect that you had no love of Jeter with your relentless criticism of the FO, my first encounter with your posts, but just used it as an excuse to bash the yanks (who deserved it there but that’s not my overall point).I would like to hear something a little more “substantive” from you re Montero and the Killer Bs, prospects you wave your hand about but communicate no knowledge of.It seems to have such strong opinions requires something witnessed or specifically understood to react off of,but I don’t get that from you.Everyone’s entitled to their views,but you make blanket statements without offering a shred of support to back them up.Why is that?

  115. randy l. December 14th, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    “Who managed the Dodgers while Martin was there? I forget.”

    me too. drink some green tea. i hear it’s good for your memory.

  116. LGY December 14th, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    “He’s such a scared little hypochondriac.”

    —————

    Is there some definition of hypochondriac that I’m not aware of?

  117. Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    Jerkface, go count some beans.

  118. Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    G Love-

    I don’t want projects pitching in AAA taking away minor league innings from pitchers in AAA or AA who could be helping the Yanks in the second half of 2011 or 2012 if they just had the time in the upper minors.

    Go count the good starter pitching prospects the Yanks have who would be in AAA and AA this year – it’s more than 10.

    And I’m with jerkface on signing gambles to major league contracts – the downside is too dangerous.

  119. vinny-b December 14th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    “# Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
    Whats pathetic about me being a Yankee fan and having an ace pitcher tell the yankees he wants nothing to do with them and that bothering me? I dont anything pathetic or sad about that”
    —————————————

    Carlos:

    you act like your girl left you.

    the Yankees will be ok. The earth will not leave its axis, cuz the Yankees didn’t sign Cliff Lee.

    be patient. At this time the ‘right’ pitcher may not be available. However, with the farm/budget the Yankees have, someone will be. In the meantime, if need be Yankees need to go to war with what they have. Games are not won on paper, anyway.

    1) sign Russell Martin – check

    2) sign Rafael Soriano

    3) talk Andy Pettitte into returning in 2010

    4) explore 3-team trade for Matt Garza

    5) send Christmas card to Ruben Amaro Jr.

  120. G. Love December 14th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock,

    He’s a Red Sox troll. It’s been obvious for awhile.

  121. Jerkface December 14th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Is there some definition of hypochondriac that I’m not aware of?

    Bret the Hitman thinks Cashman not making panic moves is exactly what a hypochondriac would do. Its a really funny joke when you think about it

  122. Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    “me too. drink some green tea.”

    randy-

    I had some around here someplace but I forgot where I put it.

  123. Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    and kindly Jerface get back to exploring the cost/benefit of Pedro Feliciano and Jerry Hairston Jr. Don’t stress out too much over it.

  124. LGY December 14th, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    Considering how AJ and Vazquez performed last year, it is actually conceivable that the Yankees could have a better starting 5 than in 2010.

    The problem is that Boston is likely to be better than 2010, but in the same vein the Rays will be worse.

  125. Jerkface December 14th, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Please stop projecting your desire to have a shiny new Jerry Hairston Jr on me. I have never once mentioned either of those players, though I’m sure both fit into your Greinke-palooza.

  126. vinny-b December 14th, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    6) sign Rich Harden to 1 year low-risk/incentive contract

  127. Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    Only a hypochondriac would term moves that are essential to winning panic moves because they’re afraid of the risks. Someone more aggressive might not think that way.

  128. J. Alfred Prufrock December 14th, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    By the way I am not picking on you, WCYF.& not piling on with others here because I couldn’t care less about their tribalthink,even as its pro yank.but it would be one thing if you made these comments and then went on to other ideas,but there’s this like AGENDA hanging over all your posts,so I’m not going to just let another one pass without asking for more “substance’ to use your own term.

  129. vinny-b December 14th, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    Bret:

    exactly how is Brian Cashman a hypochrondriac?

  130. Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    “The problem is that Boston is likely to be better than 2010, but in the same vein the Rays will be worse.”

    The Orioles will be much improved, and the Jays are pretty decent.

    Not saying the Jays or the Orioles will have a better record than the Yanks but they will eat into the Yanks’ win totals. Which may impact the post-season.

  131. Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    # vinny-b December 14th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    “# Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
    Whats pathetic about me being a Yankee fan and having an ace pitcher tell the yankees he wants nothing to do with them and that bothering me? I dont anything pathetic or sad about that”
    —————————————

    Carlos:

    you act like your girl left you.

    the Yankees will be ok. The earth will not leave its axis, cuz the Yankees didn’t sign Cliff Lee.

    be patient. At this time the ‘right’ pitcher may not be available. However, with the farm/budget the Yankees have, someone will be. In the meantime, if need be Yankees need to go to war with what they have. Games are not won on paper, anyway.

    1) sign Russell Martin – check

    2) sign Rafael Soriano

    3) talk Andy Pettitte into returning in 2010

    4) explore 3-team trade for Matt Garza

    5) send Christmas card to Ruben Amaro Jr.
    —————————————————————

    Who said anything about the Yankees not being ok?

    2 – dumb idea to pay closer money to a setup man
    3 – not in anyones control other than pettitte and he may be so tapioca physically that he cant help anyway
    4 – not gonna happen ….. no chance tampa makes any trade that trade puts Garza in a Yankee uniform….you cant just blindside a team in a 3 team trade and pretend like one team doesnt exist…..when the 3rd team tells tampa, “oh, and you will get manny banuelos as well”, they may smell something
    5 – im sure ruben amaro feels like garbage today…..all the philly fans are sick about signing cliff lee, they view it as a franchise crippling move to have 4 potential #1 starters in their rotation

  132. Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    Vinny,

    He’s gonna sit around and do nothing because he’s paranoid about getting burnt. GAMBLE. Everyone else is doing it. It takes balls.

  133. Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    # vinny-b December 14th, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    6) sign Rich Harden to 1 year low-risk/incentive contract
    —————————————————–

    2-5 lacked thought and logic, 6 is outright silly.

  134. Jerkface December 14th, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    Making trades for Granderson and Swisher, not gambling? Not making moves? Isn’t relying on minor league pitchers gambling? Doesnt that require HUGE balls?

    Your silly narrative is all messed up, Bret. Stop panicking.

  135. Tom in N.J. December 14th, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    hypochondriac?

    Was Cash at the doctors getting that mole looked at for the 30th time this week when Lee signed?

  136. Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    What did he gamble to get Swisher? Wilson Betemit.

    :lol:

  137. randy l. December 14th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    “I had some around here someplace but I forgot where I put it.”

    forgot what?

  138. Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    “Yeah, usually when a guy signs with a team in the offseason, he plays for that team in some capacity. That tends to be how it always works.

    So yes, the answer to your question is yes, i would think most of us understand that.”

    I wasn’t sure. I’m still not sure, actually.

  139. P December 14th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    Can we all address Cliff Lee in reverse. “Eel Ffilc” just seems like a much more fitting name right now.

  140. Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    # Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    What did he gamble to get Swisher? Wilson Betemit.

    :———————————-

    it can be said that Betemit did more in one 3 game series at Yankee stadium than Swisher has done in his entire postseason career as a yankee

  141. vinny-b December 14th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    5 – im sure ruben amaro feels like garbage today…..all the philly fans are sick about signing cliff lee, they view it as a franchise crippling move to have 4 potential #1 starters in their rotation
    ———————————-

    you did notice the Phillies didn’t sign Cliff Lee to 7 years, didn’t you?

    7 years would’ve been assinine. Even if to please short-sighted, spoiled Yankee fans, like yourself.

    note: Rafael Soriano is to lengthen the bullpen. An intelligent move to make, when a team doesn’t have superior starting pitching. It worked well for the Angels in recent years (a team that owned us).

  142. LGY December 14th, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    Wave,

    That’s true, but there doesn’t really seem to be some other team in the AL that looks all that impressive for the Wild Card. The AL West in particular looks awful.

    I don’t think the Yankees problem will be getting to October. I think the problem right now will be winning in October.

  143. Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    # Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    “Yeah, usually when a guy signs with a team in the offseason, he plays for that team in some capacity. That tends to be how it always works.

    So yes, the answer to your question is yes, i would think most of us understand that.”

    I wasn’t sure. I’m still not sure, actually.
    —————————–

    Haha

  144. Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    # vinny-b December 14th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    5 – im sure ruben amaro feels like garbage today…..all the philly fans are sick about signing cliff lee, they view it as a franchise crippling move to have 4 potential #1 starters in their rotation
    ———————————-

    you did notice the Phillies didn’t sign Cliff Lee to 7 years, didn’t you?

    7 years would’ve been assinine. Even if to please short-sighted, spoiled Yankee fans, like yourself.

    note: Rafael Soriano is to lengthen the bullpen. An intelligent move to make, when a team doesn’t have superior starting pitching. It worked well for the Angels in recent years (a team that owned us).
    ———————————————

    You don’t lengthen the bullpen with a 2-3 year $25-$35 mm plus commitment. The Angels were successful in that they had very good, cost controlled, back of the bullpen guys with k rod and shields…..they weren’t big ticket spending to make the pen deep though.

  145. J. Alfred Prufrock December 14th, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    G. Love December 14th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
    J. Alfred Prufrock,

    He’s a Red Sox troll. It’s been obvious for awhile.

    ///I have not been a member for very long,and react on prima facie. but thats a weird hobby,if so.

  146. LGY December 14th, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    :arrow:

  147. austinmac December 14th, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    The last couple months of last season were awful without Pettitte in the rotation. No one knows if he is returning. The rotation needs help and not Wang, Harden, Webb or others who won’t actually be healthy.

    Players and/or prospects of value must be traded if a reasonably capable starter is to be acquired. Exclude Montero, Sanchez and Banuelos except for a few pitchers. Everyone else is available for a quality starter. Otherwise, it is August and September again. The team cannot wait until July to acquire someone.

  148. PittsburghYankeeFan December 14th, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    I think everyone should back away from their keyboards for a few minutes and relax.

    Cliff Lee wanted to pitch for the Phillies. Yankees weren’t given a chance to counter–don’t you think Cashman would have outbid both Texas and Philadelphia?

    It looks like the Yankees were never an option. They were being used to set the market and get the Phillies and Rangers to come up to market value. The minute Philly hit the value, the deal was done. Better that he didn’t come to NY since he really didn’t want to play here. I wonder if CC knew this?

    The Yankees will be ok in the end. The rotation is questionable, but how many years in the past 5-6 has it been a lock anyway? Tim Redding, anyone? It hurts, but if everything was perfect, life would be boring.

    The big fallout from all of this is going to be Texas absolutely reckless offer. If it is as described, Bud and the other 29 owners are not happy campers right now, after rescuing Texas in July and supporting this group over Mark Cuban. Beware of what you wish for, MLB.

    We all know the Yankees can be stupid–but they have the revenue streams to overcome mistakes. We barely know at this point whether Texas can break even–the ownership group is only 4 months old. Yet these clowns were about to give a 33 year old the second highest pitching contract in MLB history.

    Cashman is calm. Great, and good for the Yankees. No urgency for anything at this point.

  149. J. Alfred Prufrock December 14th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    austinmac,you need to include Betances in that “other than” list.he could be the best young yankee starter to come along in years.

  150. Aaronfromnj December 14th, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    I’m less infuriated with Lee ending up in Philly then I am with the way he treated the Yankees. You don’t just wake up one morning and turn down millions of dollars to play for the greatest team in professional sports. He didn’t want to come to New York all along, yet jerked around the Yankees while they could have and should have been focusing on other team needs. He didn’t even have the common decency to call the Yankees himself and turn down their offer even though he called Texas and informed them of his decision. Meanwhile the Yankees have lost out on serious opportunities to improve their bullpen and Cashman will likely make a rash trade in order to “deepen” our rotation. If you can’t handle playing in the Bronx better to let us know in December than July, but if Cliff Lee was such a standup guy as the Sports Media has made it seem he wouldn’t have manipulated the Yankees front office and fans.

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