The 2011 Yankees: The ultimate mystery team
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 14, 2010 
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On Monday night, it was Cliff Lee himself who called Rangers general manager Jon Daniels. Lee who broke the news personally, telling Daniels that he would not be re-signing with Texas, and he would not be leaving for New York.
Lee was going back to Philadelphia, and leaving money on the table to do so.
“People rag on players for following that last dollar,” Daniels told MLB.com. “Cliff didn’t do that. I have a lot of respect for him.”
This was Lee’s free agent market. No available starting pitcher approached his combination of talent and track record, and any team in baseball would be interested at the right price. Lee, it seems, simply decided where he wanted to pitch and made sure he got there.
Counting a vesting option in the Rangers offer, Tim Brown reports that Texas actually offered more money than the Yankees. Of course, the Yankees offer was no small amount.
None of which mattered in the end. Lee picked a team, not a contract. It was a positively stunning turn of events, and what comes next for the Yankees will be fascinating.
Talk about a mystery team.
The Yankees need players who want to be Yankees. CC has turned out well, stating that he will no opt out.
Cashman has 30mm and a stocked farm system. Time to get creative.
watch Tex contact Andy and offer him a 1 year $15 mil deal
Talk about putting your eggs into one basket. That’s what the Yanks did with Lee and it handcuffed them for 2 weeks. I wasn’t enamored with 7 yrs for him, but now we will see what kind of GM Cashman is because now things get alot tougher.
It’s about the MONEY $$$$$$$
It seems Cliff Lee took the deal with the highest AAV on the contract.
He’ll pitch 5 years in the NL and he’ll be 37 looking to making up the 2 year difference in length at the end of this deal.
He’ll have NL stats on his side and he’ll be planted on a team that paid Jamie Moyer through age 47, 1 decade older than Cliff Lee will be at that point in time.
Get to work Cashman and quit crying
And talk about a MYSTERY decision.
“watch Tex contact Andy and offer him a 1 year $15 mil deal”
Why are you always so negative?
Pretty crazy that it actually looks like the Yankees will keep their 1st round draft pick this year.
Who woulda thought that a year ago?
Maybe they will draft a superstar and this will all work out in the end!
GordonEdes Gordon Edes
Update: Sox source said Sox, Phils talked, but no deal, and unlikely to be a deal
Repost
Good Morning Folks,
Howdy Trish – MTU,
I for one am glad this saga is over and moreover, I cannot wait until we play Philly and beat the pants off Lee. Truly this whole thing was a big turnoff for me, it made me tired of what the game has become. I am liking minor league ball it feels less tainted. I am not big on commercialism and baseball in this era does not feel like it is about the game anymore it is about who makes the most money. Money is on the scorecard and I just don’t like it. I like the smell of the leather of my mitt, the crisp sound of bat meeting ball. I like when someone dives to make a catch or a pitcher who hits spots perfectly not always with force but with finesse. I don’t measure the game by numbers I measure it by excitement and emotion. I don’t know whether that is old school or not. I just have always loved the game. But this stuff, win at any cost. I don’t love it so much.
Just my two cents.
Cashman has taken a deep breath and will waste no time. He has the Lee money to work with to convince Andy for 1 more year, sign Kerry Wood and see if Soriano will take a nice deal to be the alternate closer with Mariano.
Look into deals using Chamberlain, Romine, Nova, Cervelli, Russo, and (if necessary), Brackman.
No deals concerning Montero, Baneulos, Betances, Sanchez, Brewer, Phelps, or Murphy.
Talk to Kenny Williams of the White Sox about Buehrle or Floyd.
Talk to the Cubs about Ryan Dempster.
Review the signing of Russell Martin.
joeman December 14th, 2010 at 8:57 am
watch Tex contact Andy and offer him a 1 year $15 mil deal
*****************************
Andy has said that if he does come back he’ll only play for the Yankees
Bronx-
I responded to you in the previous thread.
I highly doubt Cashman has just been sitting around waiting for Lee to make a decision. He must have had an inkling this might happen.
LGY December 14th, 2010 at 9:00 am
Pretty crazy that it actually looks like the Yankees will keep their 1st round draft pick this year.
Who woulda thought that a year ago?
Maybe they will draft a superstar and this will all work out in the end!
——————
Or maybe the Yankees decide that since they have the money to spend they are going to build the best pen in baseball – and give Soriano a closer’s contract that extends beyond Mo’s…I doubt it though.
On the other hand, if they do keep the first round pick it free’s them up to deal a higher caliber prospect knowing that they’ll have a first rounder and a compensation round pick to play with.
The Yanks payroll for 2011 stands at just over $174M.
This doesn’t take into account Pettitte and the young guys who were tendered contracts (Joba, Phil, Boone Logan, et. al.):
http://spreadsheets.google.com.....utput=html
there’s plenty of money left for Cashman’s Plan B, which hopefully involves super-fortifying the bullpen.
Now that the Red Sox have acquired Joe Blanton from the Phillies, this is really turning out to be a bad winter for Cashman.
While he fiddled (and repelled down buildings), held press conferences, and “dude”d it up with folks, Theo has quietly rebuilt the Red Sox.
“Maybe they will draft a superstar and this will all work out in the end!”
You never know. Angels got Mike Trout with the Yankees pick (for Teixeira) a couple years ago, so quality can certainly be found there. Phil Hughes was a late 1st rounder too.
Sorry MTU, I was busy tapping the keys… will go back and sus it out.
Well MTU, you are right and we are gonna need some very hearty SPF!
“The Yanks payroll for 2011 stands at just over $174M”
Don’t think Igawa’s salary counts against them because he’s not on the 40 man.
ed_price Maybe Cliff Lee took notice of #Yankees smear campaign against their captain.
__
so sick of hearing about the alleged smear campaign.
We have our share of saviors. Somehow the savior for hire route seldom works out with us. Now it’s time to build a better team with movable parts, get creative, build on a great foundation, become more of a team.
Olney
“The irony is that no team was more convinced that Lee would chase every last nickel than the Phillies — who traded him because of this.”
ed_price Maybe Cliff Lee took notice of #Yankees smear campaign against their captain.
This one is tough to swallow, but it is not all that surprising if you looked at the situation from an unbiased opinion.
http://sportsthunderdome.blogspot.com/
Heyman saying that some of the Rangers offer was deferred.
I’m starting to wonder if the Cliff Lee trade with the Mariners fell through because Cashman wanted an extension and Cliff Lee shot it down. When I suggested that possibility at the time, SJ44 pummeled me for it. The Yankees better have a stellar backup plan or they got duped.
The Sox grabbed Crawford early to deny us options.
They traded for a superstar 1b for peanuts to make up for Tex.
They helped facilitate Lee going to the Phillies by engaging them on Blanton.
They’re trying to take Russell Martin.
“ed_price Maybe Cliff Lee took notice of #Yankees smear campaign against their captain.”
So Ed Price is psychotic?
Mitre also has a deal for $900K for next year.
Kate-
I agree and if he did he hasn’t done his job properly.
One indicator would be if we see a rapid fire trade go down now that Lee is off the table.
That would tell me he was prepared.
He even said earlier that there was something he could “do” but he was just not inclined at the time.
Well now’s the time. Let’s see what happens.
Kate -
I agree.
I would find it hard to believe that Brian didn’t at least lay the foundation for some deals last week in Orlando with the thought being “here’s where I go if this doesn’t work out”
The trade targets most often named are Buehrle, Garza and Greinke but none of them really make sense to me:
Zack – I don’t know enough about his disorder to know whether or not it would impact him in New York – I do know he’s no fan of talking to the media and the Yankees are leaking that they’re worried – more than that I think he would be cost prohibitive in terms of prospects.
Mark – I can’t imagine why the White Sox would seriously deal him – they’re trying to compete in the Central so how would dealing their ACE help them in that regard?
Garza – Why would Tampa, even in a three team situation, want to help the Yankees?
“ed_price Maybe Cliff Lee took notice of #Yankees smear campaign against their captain.”
How did the Yankees smear Jeter?
Looks like the Red Sox are trying to bury the Yankees…now trying to trade for Joe Blanton in helping Philly get rid of salary for Cliff Lee????Why do they need Blanton????
Cashman better start doing something as it looks like baseball has it out to get the Yankees even more than normal, but all of these teams are outspending the Yankees this offseason so they better not complain one bit ever about buying a championship, especially the Red Sox who are spending like crazy…
Cashman go and use the money allocated for Lee wisely:
> get Russell Martin to be the primary catcher, excellent defensive catcher for running games of Sox, etc…
> Soriano to be the 8th inning guy and back-up closer
>Feliciano the 2nd lefty
>Damon the lefty DH, back-up LF or Bill Hall for the same role
> Hairston Jr, back-up infielder, utility guy
>trade for a #3-4 starter
Our offense was not clutch last year, too inconsistent vs. mediocre, unfamiliar pitching, it needs work…Cashman make some moves as the rest of baseball is laughing at us and loving it!!!
“Heyman saying that some of the Rangers offer was deferred.”
I thought so and I wouldn’t be surprise to hear the same about the Phillies contract.
Plan B
Russell Martin
Zack Greinke
Matt Kemp
Rafael Soriano
Lastings Milledge
Chip
of the three, I would like Garza, but I agree, it is unlikely that TB would trade him.
Jack Curry, on Hot stove last night, indicated that since the NYY were on Greinke’s no trade list at one point, he would be hesitant.
Bret-
Plan B
Martin
Greinke
Upton
Soriano
There I fixed it for ya’
Morning all!! I was actually on the blog last night around 10pm when the news started to break. I was going to start talking.. but I decided I’d rather just sleep on it. My final thought on the matter: Who wouldn’t want to rake the Mets/Marlins/Braves/Nationals every year?
Why does everyone hate us?
Now that the rs are trying to supplant us with the highest payroll aren’t they the hypocrites?
the latest from the red sox is that they do not intend to obtain Blanton
MTU,
We’re close. Russell Martin will be the first shoe to drop.
The farm system’s about to take a huge hit.
After all is said and done, the Yankees have more flexability to address all needs. Lee would have been a good addition but he’s just one pitcher every 5 days. Philly has no guarantees nor would the Yankees or Rangers that Lee would have singlehandedly taken them to the Commissioner’s trophy.
Cashman has a good working rapport with many GM’s. He may not have a marquee name to add to the rotation but he’ll get a serviceable pitcher and the Yankee bullpen can be the best in baseball if configured in the right way.
No time restrictions now. Cashman can act fast and furious.
Olney
“The irony is that no team was more convinced that Lee would chase every last nickel than the Phillies — who traded him because of this.”
————
And they’re still giving him the highest AAV of the offers on the table, right?
Who gives a rat’s rear what the Sux do, or the Phillies for that matter.
Let’s just take care of our own buisness.
mick,
The Red Sox have not increased their payroll. They had Lowell, Beltre, Martinez and others drop off. They haven’t raised it.
Unless they can make a stealth trade for a stud pitcher, the Yanks should just make minor additions this winter. Bring back Wood, bring in Martin, etc…, whatever. But the team is good enough to compete next yr as is and then they can land a big fish at the trade deadline (there’s always a surprise player available).
“The farm system’s about to take a huge hit.”
I doubt it, but if so, Cashman isn’t the GM I think he is.
Ohh…and NYY should swipe JOSE REYES from the Red Sox next year and move Jeter to 3b and Arod to DH.
The only reason to rake over our farm system is to get a big pitcher and there are none out there.
I doubt Cash wants to go that route.
Bret-
Probabilities favor that.
I’m Ok with it. Can’t keep ‘em all, and if ever there was a time to use some of them it is now.
Bret,
I don’t think the farm is going to take a hit at all. The Yanks might make a trade for an innings eater, but that wont cost much. I dont see them going after a big time position player. And i don’t think a BIG time pitcher will be available for trade. The big move will come in the summer.
“Ohh…and NYY should swipe JOSE REYES from the Red Sox next year and move Jeter to 3b and Arod to DH.”
How do we know that Jeter would be better at 3B than A-Rod?
Rich in NJ,
The Sox don’t have a farm anymore. The Rays don’t have money.
The Yankees can easily afford to get aggressive with their prospects.
At least Lee et al has aroused this blog. It has not been this lively since Santana. Once SJ44 and the old geezer Green Beret chip in, it will be like old times.
jonheyman: #rangers actually gave lee 2 offers at visit: six yrs for $120M and 6 for $138M (yes, the $138M contained HUGE, HUGE deferrals) 1 minute ago via web
And they’re still giving him the highest AAV of the offers on the table, right?
=======================
Plus, he can become a FA at age 37, after 5 good years. Who said it was his last contract?
Plan B
Russell Martin
Zack Greinke
Matt Kemp
Rafael Soriano
Lastings Milledge
__
Milledge got into a fight at winter ball. He is nothing but trouble and not worth the issues he brings.
Someone mentioned Chris Carpenter last night. STL needs to free money for Albert, and i bet they can get him without giving up 4 prospects, especially Montero since they have Yadier Molina already.
As much as it is a kick to the gut that we lost out on Cliff Lee, it could have been worse … can you imagine a scenario where the Yankees actually did acquire him last summer for Jesus Montero, did not win the 2010 WS, and then Lee bolted the Bronx to go back to the Phllies?
My Plan B:
1. Sign Russ Martin – at least get that out of the way.
2. Give serious consideration to Harden, Sheets and Wang – Of the three of them the only one who hasn’t been mentioned at all is Sheets – I have no idea if the injury he suffered last year was a career ender or what – but I would investigate all three of them. Provided they’re willing to take low base salaries with lots of incentives I see no reason not to take a shot there – especially on Harden.
3. Investigate trades – Maybe Atlanta would be willing to do something like Hudson and McLouth for Gardner and a prospect to shave some payroll. Maybe the Giants would be willing to eat a lot of Zito money and take back next to nothing in terms of prospects.
4. Build the pen and bench – since they aren’t paying Lee and probably aren’t paying Andy, there’s no reason for this team to have a weak spot in the bench or pen.
The Phillies still made the the highest paid pitcher in history with regards to AAV (24 million). The Philies rotation looks awesome but that team is getting old and they did lose a good chunk of offense when they let Werth go. Very left handed lineup and aging and expensive team…..their window for winning may be short and they are going for it apparently.
Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 9:17 am
MTU,
We’re close. Russell Martin will be the first shoe to drop.
The farm system’s about to take a huge hit
————————————————————
this is what I’m afraid of…..always easier just laying $$ out there when you start moving players it’s another story
Rich in NJ,
The Yankees are tied to Arod for 7 more years and he has a hip issue. DH is the spot for him because he’s a slugger. The Yankees need to preserve Arod and that starts at DH in 2012 after Posada leaves. Rather than pay out the wazoo for a new 3b, they need to play the market as it is and grab Reyes. Can’t miss out on him.
The real mystery will be if the yankees don’t get a good SP soon how far they’ll be back from first place by the end of 2011.
It would be nice if our winter started happening. Even Russell Martin hasn’t agreed to a deal yet.
When will there be someone in the major NY sports media who is an actual fan of the team?
I know ESPN and such will bash the team.
But why do New Yorkers want to hear the constant crap from idiots like Mike Lupica and the rest?
There are posters on this blog that are much more knowledgeable and immensely more passionate about the Yankees than most in the NY media.
Boycott those jerks and hope we can get better in the future.
I think the Yankees highest AAV offer was 5/125.
Remember they offered Lee 3 different options and if Braunecker came back to them they probably would have negotiated with those offers.
I think any way you slice it, years or AAV, now that news is out there were major deferrals in the Rangers offer the Yankees had the highest offer on the table by a good chunk of change.
simple put, most likely 2011 team will be worse than 2010 team.
and we are still the highest payroll team.
BronxBorn – great post. Certain fans get so caught up in the minutiae and their own need for instant gratification that they forget what this beauty and history of this game is really all about. America’s pasttime. The smell of freshly mowed grass, two teams battling it out for the love of the game.
My love and support for the Yankees has always been such that I don’t need to try to manage the team, to stamp my foot and demand that the Yankees do this or that, to lust for this player or that one. My greatest joy is always rooting for the team that the Yankees trot out on the field. And I find it a total pleasure to wait and see how it will all come together. It’s almost like loving to be surprised on Christmas. I never poke boxes or shake them to try to guess what’s in them. I lovedthe excitement of finding out when the time is right.
It’s that old saying, free from expectation, I am free from disappointment. I love for the sake of loving.
And as always, I trust that the Yankees know what they’re doing and don’t really need my help or advice in order to be a successful organization.
I have a clear head.
Barry Zito in pinstripes, because the AJ deal worked out so well for us….
Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 9:17 am
MTU,
We’re close. Russell Martin will be the first shoe to drop.
The farm system’s about to take a huge hit.
————————
I doubt it – Brian’s not a reactionary guy like that – he’s not going to blow up the farm system he has taken so much time to build because Cliff Lee blew him off.
I could see Nunez getting traded, maybe one of the catchers behind Montero – but I doubt he touches his top level pitchers (especially now that he needs them) and I don’t think he moves Montero.
“The real mystery will be if the yankees don’t get a good SP soon how far they’ll be back from first place by the end of 2011.”
I think the real mystery will be how many people who are here right now will have disappeared at the end of the 2011 season if the Yankees are well out of contention. And sunny, I’m happy to say that I think I know you well enough to know that even if you’re complaining darkly, you’ll still be here.
Fans advocating tinkering over aggression in the wake of a 150 million outlay from the Yankees.
That’s the depression talking.
Bret
With or without the hip and the superior SLG, if he’s better at 3B than Jeter, he should remain there.
Relax! What happened is better than Lee going to Texas or Red Sox! Lee is in the NL & would have to get by all the other NL teams to get to a WS.
The Red Sox are basically the same team as last year still. I like Crawford & AGone more than Beltre & V-Mart, but still they had really good years last year.
The Yanks have gained a C/DH in Montero. They have addition by subtraction of anyone vs. Vasquez. AJ should be much better now that his nemesis (Eiland) is gone. If Andy comes back it shouldn’t be much of a problem. If Andy doesn’t come back, then a trade will most likely be made and a SP will be brought in. I still think if Yanks were to sign a setup guy like Kerry Wood, then Joba could be a starter again. I’d like to see that!
Yanks’ pitching staff is a mess.
now they expect a normal AJ more than ever.
Get Pettitte back. Offer the $16M of the old days. Trade for a good #2, like Carpenter, someone who won’t require the entire minor league roster (unless Felix of JJ becomes an option), and sure up the bullpen.
3rd and 4th starters don’t win championships . . Sorry . . .they may help you get to the playoffs . . .trading prospects for a 3rd and 4th starter is pointless.
mick – absolutely correct.
LGY – I just think its ridiculous that Lee gets to now be painted as some Robin Hood or something. The guy is making bank.. anyone saying this “proves” he’s all about winning is being misguided I think. He went to the weaker league, in one of the weakest divisions right now, to pitch with alongside couple Cy Young contenders.
Those who are gifting the AL East to the Red Sox are assuming that: Beckett and Lackey will be better, that Buchholtz will repeat his 2010 season, that Pedroia and Youkalis can stay healthy, that Ortiz doesn’t further erode, that they will have a catcher, that their bulllen wont stink, that Ellsbury will stay healthy, and that Drew will stay healthy……that’s a lot to.assume.
I’m glad the Yankees did not get Lee. Lee is 32 years old and he will fall apart towards the end of the contract.
But the Phillies are the team to beat in the NL and I could see them winning the World Series with that roation.
So I guess he just didn’t want to play here, huh? Can’t blame him for taking less money to play where he wants to play. But this stinks. I mean, how often do you see I guy take less money/years? I really wonder what he will say his reasoning was for choosing Philly.
Trisha. I will definitely be here. I support the team but I am miffed at Lee. Not Cash’s fault and I realize that bit not only did Lee spurn the yanks (his right) but froze Cash’s ability to make any deals while he was waiting.
Rich,
Not if you can upgrade SS with Reyes over Jeter.
And Arod’s hip is a serious issue. They owe him a boatload of money and years. The Yankees would be wise to preserve him at DH.
Would it make more sense to move Arod to DH and find a better defensive 3b who can hit? Possibly, but I don’t foresee one on the market barring a trade for Zimmerman which isn’t happening.
So you get Jose Reyes, strengthen D at shortstop, move Jeter to 3b ala Cal Ripken and preserve Arod’s bat at DH.
Oh and why not just go ahead and start this nonsense: Joba to the rotation people!! Now is the time to come outta the woodwork!!!! THIS IS OUR CHANCE!!!
…ok I’m done now.
The best case scenario for the Yankees now is to have Andy come back in 2011. You have him back, then 4/5 of the rotation is accounted for. We can get a low-level FA signing or trade and have them compete with the Ivan Nova’s of the world in ST for the 5th starter’s spot.
Bolster the bullpen … hopefully, the closer’s market dries up and Kerry Wood can be brought back for a full season … he was terrific for the Yankees last year … and add another lefty to the pen.
Keep all our chips and deal from strength next summer when teams fall out of the race and are looking to move players. We have no idea yet who may become available.
People – slowly back away from the ledge.
Let’s look at this objectively – yes, losing out on Lee hurts – moreso if Andy retires. Do I think the Yankees are going into this season with a rotation of CC, Hughes, AJ, Nova and Mitre? No I do not.
I’m certain Brian will bring in another starter and not give away the entire farm to do it. More likely he’ll just point all that Lee money towards Yu Darvish next year and hope that these top pitching prospects of his develop. The Yankees don’t need to bring in an ACE – they just need a solid mid rotation guy.
Beyond that – the Yankees are exactly where they were last year – they are one of the top two teams in the AL East and one of the top four teams in the American League overall.
No one in the AL has really improved themselves that much – Boston and Detroit have basically replaced what they lost and Chicago added a thumper but not much else.
The team that is breathing a big sigh of relief right now is LA because they missed out on their top guy but so did the Rangers – now it will be a race between those two to see who gets Beltre.
I’m relieved.
Love seeing our team not blowing the bank as usual.
And the Hot Stove for Yankee fans is now just getting started.
Can’t wait to see what Cashman has up his sleeve.
You know he has all kinds of Plan B switches to pull.
Hi Trisha,
Yep am with you on this. I don’t even have a wish list. I would prefer players were developed within the system and that coaching at all levels really pushed fundamentals so by the time they got to the bigs they were practiced professionals and really know how to play the game. With practice and persistence, ballplayers can improve their talents. That is what the minors should be doing not just seeing what cream rises to the top but really getting those fundamentals in and drill, drill drill until they are perfection.
I don’t like all the hoopla. I love baseball
The Yanks should steer clear of Reyes.
Bret -
There is no chance, not even a 1 in a million chance, that the Mets would send Jose Reyes to the New York Yankees.
It would be a PR disaster for them.
Yes, the Yankees and Mets make trades but they never involve players with that high a profile. Possibly the best player that has ever been swapped between the two teams was an aging Robin Ventura.
Also don’t expect Burnett to improve that much. He is what he is. An overrated headcase who cost alot.
Who knows what cash might have done had Lee made his intentions known from the start. Crawford? Probably not. Werth? Doubtful. But deals could’ve been had while Lee was putzing around.
On that note the Royals get burned too because Lee took a shorter deal to play where he wanted. Now te Royals can’t ask for the moon re: Greinke. Same with Garza and the Rays. Personally I hope Cash drops a few high end prospects to the Marlins for J Johmson and Hanley Ramirez.
I would like to see the Yankees get Beltre and move Arod to DH. Beltre can hit, and has a great glove.
Bret
I’m fine with Reyes, although I doubt that he will be available. I just think the best players should play. If that’s Jeter, fine. If not, that should be fine as well.
Mick,
And let the Red Sox have him while we watch Jeter and Arod age and lose Arod to the DL for long stints for the next 7 years?
The winter meetings for the Yankees start TODAY. Cashman can accomplish more in the next week than the entire offseason combined.
He has to act quickly before the market dries up but not show desperation in doing so.
If he has a deal in place that’s workable, don’t wait.
Rich,
Reyes will be a free agent after 2011.
Chip,
Reyes is a free agent after 2011.
If the yanks get beltre what did they do with posada? Beltre wants a 5 yr 85 mil deal.
I would trade the whole farm system for Josh Johnson and Hanley Ramirez.
Bret
Reyes is a loser. A headcase. You want to take a chance on that?
To be clear, I am advocating signing Reyes after 2011, moving Arod to DH in place of Posada and Jeter to 3b.
The upgrade at ss and DH outweighs the downgrade at 3b.
Good shortstops are hard to come buy and the Yankees shouldn’t sit there and let Jose Reyes slip to the Red Sox.
Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 9:39 am
Chip,
Reyes is a free agent after 2011.
—————-
Well then the Yankees can sign him; but there’s no way that Sandy Alderson’s first major move as GM of the Mets is going to be trading Jose Reyes to the Yankees.
Posada cannot stop you from getting a Beltre.
Bret -
You’re also assuming the Mets don’t extend Reyes at some point this year…
I love Jorge for what he’s done for the Yankees, but they need to put the best team out there. I would have Jorge getting some starts behind the plate, and possibly giving Tex a rest at 1B. If the Yankees make a trade for a SP, then the money will be there for Beltre.
Mick,
Reyes also knows NY. He’ll be 28 as a free agent. I’d rather take a chance on his attitude than sit there and watch Arod and Jeter grow old while the Sox reload with talented players in their prime.
The Yankees are not getting Greinke.
Bret, for f*** sake, stop posting 10 times a thread about Greinke.
It has already been reported that the Yankees do not consider Greinke an option, they do not think he has the “personality type” for NY.
Plus, the Royals want a King’s Ransom.
The writing is on the wall, so please stop.
Carpenter is a much better option to pursue.
I would call about Josh Johnson….doubt they’d move him but he’s on the short list of guys I would trade Montero for.
Beltre is not the answer. The guy is lazy and only shows up in his walk years. You can’t depend on a guy like that.
The Yankees need to utilize the farm and make some sound trades and stop throwing money around at overrated players like Burnett or a loser like Beltre.
The Yankees payroll right now is 169M based on 2011 actual salaries or 157M based on AAV
Chip,
After watching this market unfold, there is zero chance Reyes signs an extension with the loser Mets.
Beltre would be interesting – with the fallout being you’re shifting Posada to the bench and giving the Red Sox a first round pick.
$13 million is a lot of money to give to a bench player and I seriously doubt Jorge would play the good solider and accept his new role quietly.
I don’t think the distraction would be worth the gain.
As crazy as the Phillies rotation looks right now it seems they only have a 2 year window for it.
Oswalt has a 2012 team option and if picked up FA the next year. Hamels is a FA in 2 years
# JK December 14th, 2010 at 9:43 am
The Yankees payroll right now is 169M based on 2011 actual salaries or 157M based on AAV
I like it low
Give them montero and betances and Gardner and 12 other proslefts for Hanley and Josh.
According to ESPN: Yankees: 6 yr/132 mill with $16mill option. Phillies: 5yr/$120mill with option. He’ll be making more over next 5-6years with Philly. He accepted greater avg salary to go to place he likes. Makes sense to me. And this is good for Yankees.
Now, Joba to rotation.
Reyes is a loser because he plays for the Mets. A loser organization going no where and fast. Maybe if you bring him to the Yankees the loser mentality will go away.
Joelsherman1 You know who could be a big winner here (believe it or not): Carl Pavano. AL exec told me he thinks #Rangers will bid on him now
Joelsherman1 Pavano groundball/control guy could work in Texas. Funny thing is if he never had disaster with #Yankees he’s kind of innings eater
Joelsherman1 they would look at. But after disastrous Vazquez 2d stint last yr, #Yankees aren’t going to dance again with Pavano
Prospects.
I don’t expect Larry Rothschild to accomplish miracles with Burnett or Chamberlain. Deal them and add Nova and Cervelli to either Chicago team for any of Buehrle, Dempster, or Zambrano. No loss in the rotation with Burnett going or in the bullpen with Chamberlain going.
Jacksquat,
The Yankees reservations about Greinke are pure posturing.
Reyes is always hurt .
Joba to rotation? unreal.
rotation is a MESS, I am worried.
Carpenter –
I’m all set with a National League Pitcher even if it is Carpenter… . . He has BUST written all over him ..
Joelsherman1 Think this will be #Yankees message today: Came to peace last wk that Lee was going somewhere else, think still powerful team that is going to keep adding depth to pen, bench, rotation around strong core, stay flexible for July trade market.
It’s clearly obvious that the Yankees are no longer going to pay significantly above market rates like George routinely did.
Damon
Jeter
Tiex
Burnett
Lee
Other than CC & Jeter who was a special case, the Yankees bid was right where the market was for the player.
I try to get Pettitte to come back for 1 year.
Other than that I would try to improve the bullpen & bench and take my chances with Nova as the #5 until the trading deadline.
Larry Rothschild is the most important free agent signing of the offseason…
Mick,
He’s only 27 though and he doesn’t have any structural damage anywhere. I’d monitor his health throughout 2011 of course before giving him a big contract. He’s a leadoff guy with Carl Crawford skills. He’ll get Carl Crawford money or close to it.
Bret,
Can you monitor his head?
all I’ve heard today from other fans is that our fans spit on mrs lee in the playoffs? was that ever confirmed?
I gotta be the only person not sold on Greinke. You’re talking about trading our farm system for a guy that had one good season, right?
I could be wrong, I’m more of a Yankee fan than a baseball fan.. can someone clear up why Greinke makes sense for the Yanks stuff wise? Most of the arguments seem to be based on the fact that he’s young and cost controlled for a couple years, but would his stuff translate to the AL East well? Does he pitch a lot of innings? I know nothing.
Joelsherman1 Asked multiple officials between last nite and today all say King Felix not available nor is anything else ace level in trade mart except Greinke, and #Yankees just don’t believe he can handle NY
Beltre’s two best seasons came in his “walk” years. That has to be at least a bit disconcerting.
There are a number of pitchers worth pursuing via trade with varying costs… from a really expensive ones like Felix Hernandez, Zac Grienke or Josh Johnson to mid range guys like Fausto Carmona and Edwin Jackson any of whom would be a positive addition.
I would expect the Yanks to try and get a decision from Pettite this week.
I wish we could get rid of Burnett. I can’t stand seeing his face let alone seeing him pitch. The guy is such a headcase with all that talent.
Mick,
Reyes – Cano, the Dominican Duo!!!
Best middle infield defense in baseball!!!!
Bret
They have been getting rid of all of Robbie’s friends and now you want to bring in another?
I don’t see Jeter at 3rd.
Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 9:46 am
Jacksquat,
The Yankees reservations about Greinke are pure posturing.
—
I doubt it, but even if that is true, that still leaves the problem of the Royals’ demands. They want a boatload (including Montero), and I don’t think Greinke is worth that much.
Better to try other options like Carpenter. At least they are unlikely to be interested in Montero, and Carpenter is excellent.
Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2010 at 9:52 am
Mick,
Reyes ? Cano, the Dominican Duo!!!
Best middle infield defense in baseball!!!!
**********************
Ummmm…where is Jeter going to play?
Shame,
Greinke is not a headcase on the mound and that’s what’s important. He’s a command/control guy with plus stuff – fastball, curveball, slider, change. His low-key introverted personality reminds me of Mussina and plenty of people doubted he would be able to handle the large crowds and pressure of NYC. Moose struggled to fit in but he was extremely competitive. People close to Greinke say the same thing about him. He wants to play for a winning team and he’s sick of KC. He went public about wanting to pitch for a winner.
And in terms of Joba. Do you really want to see him back in the rotation ?
The guy is out of shape and can hardly pitch 1 inning let alone 6-7 innings.
Are we all ready for the “Pettitte Watch 2011″ ?
Probably not quite as much tension as “Lee Watch” but the disappointment factor could be just as high.
Considering the Phils & Rangers offer, the Yanks didn’t really give him that “offer he can’t refuse”. It was higher but I guess it’s safe to say that it was going to take a lot more to lure him here.
Can’t blame the Yanks for not wanting to go there. He’s too old and frankly I’m half relieved they don’t have that contract to contend with down the line.
You can’t keep on throwing out 150$ mil contracts every few seasons and not expect it to come back and bite you.
Yes, I want Joba to be tried in the rotation.
Someone commented that they can’t wait for us to face the Philly’s so that we can beat the pants off Lee. I guess pitchers can have remarkable turnarounds just in the space of 2 months. We haven’t come close to beaating/hitting this guy or even getting the bat on the ball based on his SO numbers against us. I guess the only salvation is we only face him in interleague or the playoffs. Sometimes the comments are just so absurb.
Winning the World Series this year will be all the sweeter.
Greinke is a headcase. He can’t handle the big stage he even said it. Why trade the farm for a guy who has proven nothing on the big stage and has never pitched in the postseason ?
Trading for Greinke is a joke !
Gardner is a better leadoff hitter than Reyes. Reyes is one of the most overhyped players in the majors actually.
I second on trading the whole farm system for Josj johnson and Hanley Ramirez!!!
Grienke isn’t a headcase and it’s disrespectful that people keep referring to him as a headcase.
Imagine having two headcases like Burnett and Greinke pitching back to back.
“Grienke isn’t a headcase and it’s disrespectful that people keep referring to him as a headcase.”
I knew that sooner or later we’d agree on something.
Erin December 14th, 2010 at 9:51 am
Joelsherman1 Asked multiple officials between last nite and today all say King Felix not available nor is anything else ace level in trade mart except Greinke, and #Yankees just don’t believe he can handle NY
**************
Posturing.
I’ll say it again but Grienke just isn’t worth the price tag. Don’t trade your prospects for a guy who had a fairly ordinary season last year but is somehow still deemed an “ace.” He’s had a good season, a great season, and ok season.
Not worth the price tag.
My first move would be to try to get Pettitte back for a year. That gives Cashman time to work on a deal for the future, or time for one of the prospects to show he is ready for the Yankee Bigs
========================================================.
I’d like to see Kerry Wood’s availability looked into as of today. This has been mentioned a number of times by people who know more than I do.
=========================================================
I would like Martin signed by the Yankees even if it is only for the short haul to give Montero or whoever a chance to play in the Majors at a more leisurely pace than expecting him to come in and be the perfect catcher for the Yankees. He is only 20 years old.
———————————————————————
Someone was nice enough to post the guys who are free agents for 2011. I would love to see that list…up to date again.
Will this be the Yankees season that the Red Sox had a few years back with holes where they tried to plug Penny and Smoltz in there which backfired?
Or will it be the season like when the Sox got Beckett/Lowell, will the Yankees be able to pry King Felix from an awful team while taking back a bad contract of Figgins or the $17 a year Ichiro is owed for the next two. Figgins coudl fill the 4th OF and Utility roll they need anyway or Ichiro could slot over in RF, Swisher to LF and Gardner to the bench.
Will be interesting to see. My gut tells me Andy comes back for $16 this season. They roll with Nova. Hope more players become available during the season and hope their prospects grow and become more attractive in the minors without moving Joba or Montero.
Money will be spent on two relievers, OF depth and maybe a gamble on Webb or Harden for one year deals.
The Yankees shouldn’t discount Greinke because of some perceived inability to pitch in NY…..its all about price and what it would take to get him, that should be the deciding factor.
As someone said, imagine if we traded Montero for Lee and Lee bolted.
Now trade him again for another unknown?
Am I missing something?
Rich,
lol, Actually though I agree with a lot of things you say. We’re just both opinionated so when we disagree, we disagree.
Jeremy December 14th, 2010 at 9:58 am
Greinke is a headcase. He can’t handle the big stage he even said it. Why trade the farm for a guy who has proven nothing on the big stage and has never pitched in the postseason ?
Trading for Greinke is a joke !
________________________________________________________________________
Don’t know that he is or he isn’t, but we can’t talk that much as we have hobbies of our own in Joba and AJ
If NYYs are going for a back-up catcher, I’d rather they went after Bengie Molina and forget Martin.
Cashman will not change his stance about Chamberlain in the starting rotation. That ship has sailed. He’s now a trading chip.
JK December 14th, 2010 at 9:48 am
It’s clearly obvious that the Yankees are no longer going to pay significantly above market rates like George routinely did
————————————–
IMO, that is the best stated post in days. I completely agree.
The Yankees are playing under a new fiscal reality. Deals have to make sense.
CC was a special case – in this prime, left-handed, strikeout pitcher with control – and was paid appropriately.
For all those who said that Cashman is a bad GM note this: Lee was offered a contract lower than CC’s – as was appropriate for an older, more often injured, yet good pitcher.
Cashman didn’t overspend, nor did he overreach. Good job.
# LGY December 14th, 2010 at 9:44 am
As crazy as the Phillies rotation looks right now it seems they only have a 2 year window for it.
Oswalt has a 2012 team option and if picked up FA the next year. Hamels is a FA in 2 years
——————————————————–
Name one person who wouldn’t want that rotation even if it was for just one year?
I don’t think the Yanks stood a chance with Lee once Philly got involved. If he wanted to come here, then why weren’t the Yanks given the opportunity to match the Philly offer? IMO, 5yr/$120M is a lot better for the team than 6yr/$138 (or whatever the final Yankee number was). We all complained about 6 and 7 year offers, so 5 years would’ve been perfect. Maybe he didn’t want the spotlight? Maybe he felt a better chance to win by going to a rotation that has 3 other guys who could be #1 starters on any team.
okay Greinke is not a headcase but he can’t handle the big stage.
If the Yankees trade for Greinke, they’re not stuck with him. Even if they extend him, they’ll know in a year or 2 if he’s the next Moose or the next Jeff Weaver. With pitching at such a premium, a 20-something former CY winner will be a moveable contract.
GREINKE PLEASE
I think Jose Reyes is very overrated and the Mets should have traded him 3 years ago in an effort to rebuild
I doubt the Yankees are posturing about Greinke. I don’t think they’ll trade Montero for a guy they are not sure will adapt to pitching in NY.
Jeremy December 14th, 2010 at 10:04 am
okay Greinke is not a headcase but he can’t handle the big stage.
*************
How do you know that?
Did I miss the games where he pitched for a big market team????
Do you have stats to prove this?
Brett – Thanks for the info.
Rich – We’re on the same team!! Lets go down on this sinking Joba ship together! I really still think he’d make a better starter this season than half the pitchers on the Sox.
When someone chooses to pitch in the NL where you face a pitcher every 9th batter, bury themself in the midst of a stellar rotation so your warts don’t show, and move to a city with possibly the most vehement of sports fans, all I can say is it shows a lot.
Best of luck to him.
If you get Martin I think it makes more sense to trade Montero than a guy like Romine or Sanchez. You’ll get more bang for your buck with Montero. Romine still has a year to go in AAA and while a solid starting catcher or backup isn’t going to get what Montero could get.
Jeremy
-
okay Greinke is not a headcase but he can?t handle the big stage.
-
We won’t know until he’s on the big stage
Everyone is saying Montero btw.. I thought the Royals were set at catcher. Don’t they need position players which our system lacks?
The thing about Martin is that the Yankees would have him under control for 2 years before his free agency. They can sign him for 1 year, see how it goes and allow him his arbitration after 2011. He’d make more in 2012 but then that means he performed in 2011. After 2012, they can offer him arbitration and get picks if he’s a Type A. Or they can trade him at some point in the next 2 years when one of the catchers is ready.
“Name one person who wouldn’t want that rotation even if it was for just one year?”
———————-
Yeah, obviously I’m not saying it is great to have that rotation for 1-2 years.
I am just pointing out that it is not like the Phillies have built some dynasty rotation over the long haul. They are not the Miami Heat where those guys are all there for a really long time.
They have those 4 guys together max 2 years.
How about Brandon Webb? Sinkerballer who was one of the top pitchers when healthy. Incentive based contract.
Mike in Harrisburg December 14th, 2010 at 10:06 am
If you get Martin I think it makes more sense to trade Montero than a guy like Romine or Sanchez. You’ll get more bang for your buck with Montero. Romine still has a year to go in AAA and while a solid starting catcher or backup isn’t going to get what Montero could get.
**********
Agreed.
Why do people think Bengie Molina is any good?
He is worse than Cervelli. I would rather stick with Cervelli than sign Bengie Boy.
Is this like the thing that happens in the NFL where a guy has a great few games in the playoffs and people think he is good?
I also think Carl Pavano in a very short incentive filled contract is a very good idea.
The guy pitched great for the Twins.
(Ducks)
DaSaint
I think what Lee showed us is that it isn’t all about the money. Doesn’t make him a lesser person as he made a life decison for himself and his family.
Wish we would stop talking about Lee, that ship to use somebody else’s words has sailed.
I agree good luck to him to.
Heyman says that Pettite should tell the Yanks to go shopping and see what’s out there…..ouch.
good luck to lee?
no, not from me. I wish he choke
blake December 14th, 2010 at 10:11 am
Heyman says that Pettite should tell the Yanks to go shopping and see what’s out there…..ouch.
**********
Dang!
Any way a Zambrano -AJ deal can be worked out?
Erica in NY December 14th, 2010 at 10:10 am
I also think Carl Pavano in a very short incentive filled contract is a very good idea.
The guy pitched great for the Twins.
_____________________________________________________________________
Erica, I think based on last years debacle with Nick and Javy that it wouldn’t be in our best interests right now to go back to the well with a player we gave up on. Just my opinion
When you can’t put together a great pitching rotation, you do the next best things:
I – Make sure you can create lots of runs.
II – Have starters who can at least give you lenght, so you have a chance to score runs later.
III – Improve your bullpen to hold the lead you have.
IV – Make sure you can defend against lots of runs.
LGY,
Not saying I want Molina because I dont. But if Cervelli never put on a yankee uniform again I’d be extremely happy. There isnt a single aspect of his game that is anything above average, I’d argue to say he’s below average at almost every aspect of his game. His bat just isn’t good. I was extremely disappointed with him behind the plate. Tons of false hustle make him more endearing to the fans, but he loses his pitchers strikes, threw out runners at the same clip as a 39 year old posada. I don’t see why anyone would want this guy to start games for us next year.
Cervelli is a goner.
Today we are all Nick Swisher:
“I’m not talking about Cliff Lee…I don’t give a [expletive].”
“You guys are talking about Cliff Lee? [Expletive], who cares?”
Eff Cliff Lee!
If a guy comes out and says that he can’t handle large markets then you have to believe that he can’t handle it.
Greinke will be another guy in a long list of busts who can’t handle the big stage. Javy, Jeff Weaver, Kevin Brown, and so on.
Gary December 14th, 2010 at 10:13 am
Erica, I think based on last years debacle with Nick and Javy that it wouldn’t be in our best interests right now to go back to the well with a player we gave up on. Just my opinion
********************
We didn’t give up on him. We gave him every opportunity. The guy was hurt for 95% of a 4 year contract. When he became healthy again at the very end of the contract in 2008, the Yankees welcomed him to try to help pitch them into a playoff spot. Then his contract ended and the Yankees filled their rotation with two big free agents, Sabathia and Burnett who were considered stronger options than Pavano at the time.
These are two very different circumstances
Mstarr,
I hope the Yankees upgrade at catcher and Cervelli gets bumped down on the depth chart.
Just saying Bengie Molina is not the reason to bump Cervelli down.
The guy had a .623 OPS last year.
I hope Lee misses all of 2011.
Would make all feel better we didn’t get him…
Grienke may or may not be a fall back plan.
The Rangers also could use someone to start, so they might get in on bidding for Grienke.
The Yankees might have concerns about Grienke, not as much because of him performing on the mound, but his dealing with the media after a bad game. With anxiety problems, it could be that the after the game/off field stuff would affect Grienke more than issues on the field.
We shall see how it shakes out.
The Phillies are going to have a killer rotation. At least on paper. That doesn’t mean anything till they play the games though. With the payroll committment they have for that rotation, they will be in a tough position if one of them gets injured. Its also unknown if Hamels will be good or stinking up the place. Given what had happened the season before, it will always be out there as a question.
Who knows. We might actually see the Yankees and the Rangers better off from this. That would not be a bad thing.
The yanks offered Lee 6 yrs at 132 mil with a 7th yr player option for 16 mil. So 6 at 132 or 7 at 148.
The Phils signed him for 5 yrs at 120 mil with a 12.5 mil buyout on yr 6 or a 27.5 mil vesting option for yr 6. So he’s guaranteed 132.5 mil for 5 yrs if you include the buyout or 147.5 mil for 6 yrs if he pitches 200 innings in 2015 or a total of 400 innings over the 2014-15 seasons.
That means the Phils are paying him the same thing the yanks offered over one LESS season.
Remember that when you hear and read how Lee left millions of dollars on the table to spurn the yanks. he actually left NOTHING on the table.
Sure, no one knows for sure if Greinke could pitch in NY, but the fact is he was diagnosed with social anxiety disorder and depression, so that question is there, where with other pitchers it is not. It’s foolish to completely dismiss his history.
And Zambrano sounds like a great idea. He would make A.J. look sane and A.J. would outperform him even though it’s hard to imagine.
Does Lee have an opt-out?
But even if you could completely dismiss Greinke’s personal issues, the Royals want too much, and we may not even have what they want.
What has Martin done in 3 years except go in the tank and hobble off the field?
The Royals want up the middle talent . Adams , Nunez , are a few.. . But im sure other teams have better
“Remember that when you hear and read how Lee left millions of dollars on the table to spurn the yanks. he actually left NOTHING on the table.”
It was a little crazy last night when people thought he was leaving as much as $70M on the table. I think Heyman was prepared to start a food drive for the Lee family.
Once the real numbers are out, he’s really not leaving much at all.
Hat tip to fake Rosenthal for duping Kim Jones of YES but more importantly for being the first to break the Lee to Philly news with a fake tweet!!!
country club
so you are saying we were outbid for Lee?
guess we didn’t want him badly enough…
I – Make sure you can create lots of runs.
II – Have starters who can at least give you lenght, so you have a chance to score runs later.
III – Improve your bullpen to hold the lead you have.
IV – Make sure you can defend against lots of runs.
———————————————————————
I. They’ve got that
II. Didn’t have it for much of last season and don’t have it as of now. Hope for Pettitte and improvements in AJ/Phil.
III. This can be done.
IV. Weak in some spots, strong in others. Catching is the biggest unknown.
Vajayjay Burnett! Hip Hip Hooray! For Vajayjay! We still owe this guy $16.5 million for 3 more years. Woot Woot!
country club,
Where do you see the terms of the vesting option?
I – Run creation: Gardner, Granderson, Jeter, and Nunez (if he’s on the team) have to have a green light to run the bases at any time. ARod and Tex should be able to bounce back in terms of their power and clutch hitting abilities, joining Cano.
II – CC is a horse. Hughes is a kid, and is only expected to go 7. AJ can and should go 7 irrespective of how many runs he may give up. Andy really needs to be wooed back, even if it’s for $15M, as he too gives lenght, going 7 innings. Nova or whomever can only be expected to go 6.
III – The bullpen needs guys who can go 2 innings each, which is why I’ve advocated for Wood and Fuentes as both give you lenght. I really think 3 lefties are needed this year, with Feliciano or Choate added to Logan, as all can be for an inning or a batter. Robertson is fine as is Mariano.
IV – Outfield is currently fine, but would I take Upton if I could for RF, sure. Defensively they would be a premier combination of range and speed, particularly covering the gaps. Infield is fine, but a versitile backup for ARod and Jeter would help. I’d rather have Wiggington, but he signed with the Rockies, solet’s go cheap this year: Laird and Nunez.
Sign a catcher who can defend against the run. Russel Martin works for me, with a secondary reason that boston needs him also.
Its not a simple plan, but it’s a methodical one, and Cashman is if anything he’s methodical.
LGY December 14th, 2010 at 10:24 am
country club,
Where do you see the terms of the vesting option?
———————————
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=5917145
“What has Martin done in 3 years except go in the tank and hobble off the field?”
Exactly. Can’t all be attributed to injury either as he didn’t hurt his hip until 8/2010. He’s been lousy since the 2nd half of ’08.
mick December 14th, 2010 at 10:22 am
country club
so you are saying we were outbid for Lee?
———————-
I guess so, yeah.
I think the “Joba watch” is a valid pastime for this winter.
If he works hard this winter-time..
– on his weight
– on his pitches
– on his psyche
then, he would be a viable candidate for the rotation.
Remember, he was a VERY successful starter in college, and in the minors.
But, he has to be working on these items now!!.. or January 2nd at the latest.
… it’s possible…
Lee’s deal includes a $27.5 million option that vests if he pitches 200 innings in 2015 or a total of 400 innings over the 2014-15 seasons. If the option doesn’t vest, the deal includes a $12.5 million buyout.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=5917145
IF the early reports are true, Lee or his agent initiated the contact with the Phillies. If so, it indicates he did not want to play for NY and that is his choice, as fans we have seen how others did in NY when they just came for the money and really did not want to be here so in the long run this should benefit both. Now let Cashman get to work and see what can be done to shore up the rotation and lets use some of the Lee money to bring back Kerry Wood and get another left hander for the pin.
Martin is a buy-low Nick Swisher special.
He was overworked early in his career and I think he just got burnt out.
He caught near 150 games one year and 140 in another. Torre came in and gave him games at 3b instead of resting him.
He’s a gamer.
Now he’s healthy, rested and hopefully recovered and he has something to prove.
He can gun down 40% of baserunners and control the Sox, Rangers and Rays running game. Watching him after suffering through Posada/Cervelli would feel incredible. We might all just fall in love with him.
Country Club,
Thanks.
I don’t know that doesn’t seem so easily reachable to me. 200 innings as a 36 year old or 400 innings during his age 35-36 season.
Definitely a good shot for Lee, but not “easy” IMO.
If he suffers any sort of injury even a minor one where he misses a month let’s say in 2014 or 2015 there is a really good chance that option won’t vest.
i wonder if lee ever went back to cash one last time with that offer which appears to be better ?
Sure, no one knows for sure if Greinke could pitch in NY, but the fact is he was diagnosed with social anxiety disorder and depression, so that question is there, where with other pitchers it is not. It’s foolish to completely dismiss his history.
________________________________________________________________________
I thought as a society we had turned the corner on these types of things
as i said before many times, i never liked the idea of cliff ll being a yankee.
this is a real opportunity for cashman to build the yankees from within their own system.
they are not going to be eliminated in the first third of the season because no other potential wild card team is that strong, so they need to just play and see what they have during that time.
i’m assuming pettitte will sign with the yankees for 2011 simply because his team really need him.
with sabathia, hughes, petite, burnett, and nova the yankees are going to win their share of games.
let’s see if the new pitching coach can get burnett back on track. let’s face it eland wasn’t “there” last summer. he didn’t do his job and that’s why he’s gone. let’s see if rothchild can do something with burnett in that first third of the season. if he can, things are in much better shape already.
the beauty of the yankees going this route is they become the overachievers and underdogs if they pull this off having gone into 2011 without signing a major free agent.
time to roll up the sleeves and for everyone to pull in the same direction.
if the yankees do this , i think that 2011 can be a positive turning point for the organization.
Joba Dobba Dooooo. A wasted talent. Hip Hip Hooray!
We signed Martin. That’s a small start.
LGY,
True. But even if he doesnt make the 6th yr vest, he stills gets a 12.5 mil payout. So that’s 132.5 mil for 5 yrs of work.
joe blanton stinks let the red sux get him.
bottom line Lee did not want to come, as far as to many eggs in 1 basket nonsense. lee was the logical signing, who else is out there.
now cashman will be smart, not panic, and see what happens. do not throw good money at middling older junk.
If Carl Pavano was back on the team which teammate would try to beat him up first: Posada, Jeter, or Mussina (who would obviously drive up to NYC to break his a$$… again.)?
Oh, and for those in the know: Can ANY of the three B’s help us in 2011?
LGY, true, the 200/400 inning might be tough to reach, but getting a 12.5 million buyout – a payment for doing nothing! Is not a bad deal. If he can’t pitch that amount he might be about done anyway.
West Coast Yankee Fan December 14th, 2010 at 10:33 am
We signed Martin. That’s a small start.
————–
source?
Yankees Reach Agreement With Russell Martin
By Tim Dierkes [December 14 at 9:32am CST]
The Yankees have reached an agreement with catcher Russell Martin, tweets MLB.com’s Alden Gonzalez. With Jorge Posada moving into a designated hitter role next year, Martin should be the Yankees’ starting catcher. Since Martin has less than five years of service time, he’s under team control for 2012 as an arbitration eligible player.
Martin, 28 in February, hit .248/.347/.332 in 387 plate appearances for the Dodgers before being non-tendered this month.
Shame Spencer December 14th, 2010 at 10:34 am
Oh, and for those in the know: Can ANY of the three B’s help us in 2011?
———————-
Maybe brackman out of the pen in the 2nd half. But the others making the majors next yr would be a LONG shot. They would have to be lights out in minors and the yanks would of had major injuries on the MLB staff.
Yanks reach agreement with Martin
per mlbtraderumors
The Yankees have reached an agreement with catcher Russell Martin, tweets MLB.com’s Alden Gonzalez. With Jorge Posada moving into a designated hitter role next year, Martin should be the Yankees’ starting catcher. Since Martin has less than five years of service time, he’s under team control for 2012 as an arbitration eligible player.
CountryClub December 14th, 2010 at 10:34 am
West Coast Yankee Fan December 14th, 2010 at 10:33 am
We signed Martin. That’s a small start.
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Great news, while the news cycle will be dominated today by what we didn’t do at least there will be some news about what we did do assuming it’s true
randy I.
I agree. It’s about time that the Yankees started going younger and stop wasting money on guys who just don’t fit. Tex and CC were a special case but Lee is not and Burnett was a mistake.
We need to see more players come out of the farm to eventually replace Rivera, Jeter, Posada, and so on.
This is better for the Yankees.
12.5 million buyout – a payment for doing nothing!
———————-
I know right.
12.5 million. That is a huge buyout.
To put that in context, $12.5 million would put Lee has tied for Bronson Arroyo for the 19th highest AAV to a starting pitcher.
One of the 20 highest single season salaries for a pitcher NOT to pitch!!
CountryClub – Thanks!
I hope if Brackman can help us in the pen that would keep Nova in the rotation. I don’t want them to do to Nova what they did to Joba and try to make him a long man. I understand he had trouble getting through 5 innings last season but it seemed to be his concentration and game plan that needed work.
There is no way to spin this, it’s a poor outcome for the Yankees.
If we had signed Lee, the cost would just have been money, which the Yankees have plenty of. Now we will most likely have to severely dip into our stockpile of minor league talent just to remain competitive with Boston to build out a competitive rotation. That is a huge negative. We could have used that talent for other needs.
Cashman’s job was to sign Lee. He failed. Maybe he should have been to Arkansas more, sent Saathia, Mariano and Jeter to talk about Yankee tradition and monuments. Maybe it wouldn’t have helped we will never know.
Well, that’s probably it for cervelli. although he may have an option left, so they could send him down to AAA if Montero makes the MLB roster.
If I’m John Heyman today, I’m gonna throw all that crap back at every writer and twitter mocker I’ve faced in the past week.
I’ve never seen so many people so wrong.
Cashman isn’t stupid. I think he would have other possible plans to go with if Lee didn’t get signed. Now that is reality, so Cashman will get to work on it.
I am glad that Cashman didn’t up the value or offering. It was where the top value they placed on Lee was. It was risky enough going long with 7 years. Over all that would have probably been a poor thing to have to deal with during the last year(s) of the contract.
For all we know, (not that I wish this) Lee will miss a chunk of the season due to his back or abdominal issues. Heck, even Halliday could have his groin go as it did a couple years back.
While you stack things as much as you can to overcome the odds, there are no guarantees with these players.
Who is Alden Gonzalez and why is he the only one with this Russell Martin news?
MTU,
The first shoe has dropped.
Martin to the NYY
http://twitter.com/Alden_Gonza.....4228476931
Montero for a pitcher is gonna happen.
if martin is a yankee. the smart move is to put cervelli at triple a, simply because he’s cheap insurance for montero and martin. one’s a really young rookie. the other had a bad hip. things can happen.
cervelli is the funny looking little wheel they give you to get to the gas station, but you get to the gas station. keep him.
Shame Spencer December 14th, 2010 at 10:33 am
If Carl Pavano was back on the team which teammate would try to beat him up first: Posada, Jeter, or Mussina (who would obviously drive up to NYC to break his a$$? again.)?
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Moose. Without a doubt. Posasda and Jeter would have to wait their turn
Shame Spencer December 14th, 2010 at 10:40 am
If I’m John Heyman today, I’m gonna throw all that crap back at every writer and twitter mocker I’ve faced in the past week.
I’ve never seen so many people so wrong.
**********************
Media and the supposed “insiders” here.
I – Make sure you can create lots of runs.
II – Have starters who can at least give you lenght, so you have a chance to score runs later.
III – Improve your bullpen to hold the lead you have.
IV – Make sure you can defend against lots of runs.
——————————————————————
IV – Done. Russel Martin signed. Provides strong arm, versatility (3B/OF), and under control to 2012, just in case Montero needs additional time. Or is traded.
#Shame Spencer December 14th, 2010 at 10:33 am
If Carl Pavano was back on the team which teammate would try to beat him up first: Posada, Jeter, or Mussina (who would obviously drive up to NYC to break his a$$? again.)?
____________________________
I vote for Hip Hip Jor-hay.
WCYF: At some point I think you have to accept that Lee (and his wife) may just not have wanted to come to New York. Cash put down the money and the years and Lee didn’t take it. That’s life. You move on.
Bret –
What makes you think Montero will go for a pitcher ?? and which one do you think
I hope cashman drops more shoes or even throws a shoe at somebody , I select Lupica to be a recipient of a thrown shoe. Just don’t aim too high.
Not getting Lee is bad for the present. But it is a good thing for the future. At least in my opinion. I don’t think anyone on here thinks he’ll be worth 22 mil per yr when he’s 37 & 38.
cervelli is the funny looking little wheel they give you to get to the gas station, but you get to the gas station. keep him.
———————————————
Love that analogy, Randy!
Let’s see:
Red Sox get AGon and Carl Crawford.
Phillies get Cliff Lee on top of Halladay, Oswalt, and Hamels
The Yanks get Russell Martin and have interest in Hairston Jr.
Hot dog. I think it’s safe to say this winter blows chunks right now.
Mike in Harrisburg – figures it takes a PA guy to add some stability here…..completely agree….he didnt want to be here. Such is life. We would have been better with him, but we need to move forward without him.
Looks like Cliff Lee took the best offer after all. There goes that warm and fuzzy feeling.
Yanks can’t be as good in 2011 as they could have been with Lee. I guess it remains to be seen if the Yanks can be good enough.
New world dawning I think.
The Season is saved! The Yankees get Martin! From what I hear he has a wicked fastball, nasty curve, outstanding changeup… lol.
Actually though, this was being worked on prior to the Lee meltdown. It might be the first piece of a further move to be made. That might explain why it didn’t happen till after the Lee decision.
I don’t think it will take that long to start hearing further rumors about the Yankees next move.
For what it’s worth this is where I would go for the rotation:
1. Sign Rich Harden to an incentive laden contract
2. Brett Gardner and Eduardo Nunez to Atlanta for Tim Hudson and Nate McLouth or Jordan Schaeffer
Montero for a pitcher is gonna happen.
===========================
Wrong.
Montero is Martin’s caddy.
Stay the course.
randy l. December 14th, 2010 at 10:42 am
cervelli is the funny looking little wheel they give you to get to the gas station, but you get to the gas station. keep him.
******************************
If Montero doesnt get traded (and I hope he doesnt), he’s going to be the backup this yr or he’s going to start in AAA. So signing Martin to a 1 yr deal (with control through 2012) doesnt hint at anything regarding how the Yanks think of Jesus.
Right now, without any trades, Cervelli and Montero will fight for the backup catcher’s job with the loser being stashed in AAA.
“2. Brett Gardner and Eduardo Nunez to Atlanta for Tim Hudson and Nate McLouth or Jordan Schaeffer”
Chip, those two guys don’t get you Hudson, nevermind Hudson and an outfielder.
Chip December 14th, 2010 at 10:45 am
For what it’s worth this is where I would go for the rotation:
1. Sign Rich Harden to an incentive laden contract
2. Brett Gardner and Eduardo Nunez to Atlanta for Tim Hudson and Nate McLouth or Jordan Schaeffer
__
With you in theory. Like the Harden idea, and Rothschild has worked with him in Chicago. I think I would rather have Carpenter than Hudson, and it works better because they need a SS and don’t need a C, but also need to free money for Pujols.
“Cashman’s job was to sign Lee. He failed. Maybe he should have been to Arkansas more, sent Saathia, Mariano and Jeter to talk about Yankee tradition and monuments. Maybe it wouldn’t have helped we will never know.”
Dude, he signed with the Phillies for far less than what both Texas and Yankees were offering … what part of Cliff Lee not wanting to pitch for the Yankees and following his heart to get back to Philly (where he never wanted to leave in the first place) do you not understand?
This is more about where Cliff Lee truly wanted to be than anything else … and more than anything else, he wanted to go back to the Phillies.
How is that Brian Cashman’s fault?
If Montero stays in AAA or is a bit player in the majors the Yanks have screwed up big time.
“Brett Gardner and Eduardo Nunez to Atlanta for Tim Hudson and Nate McLouth or Jordan Schaeffer”
Mike Francesa, is that you?? Gardner is getting better than both of them. Jordan been injuried, and McClouth had one fluke year!!!!
“Dude, he signed with the Phillies for far less than what both Texas and Yankees were offering ”
Not true, it turns out.
@WCYF The “insiders” here are nothing but a flying heap of excrement.
sunny615 December 14th, 2010 at 10:44 am
Let’s see:
Red Sox get AGon and Carl Crawford.
Phillies get Cliff Lee on top of Halladay, Oswalt, and Hamels
The Yanks get Russell Martin and have interest in Hairston Jr.
Hot dog. I think it’s safe to say this winter blows chunks right now.
—————————————————————————————-
Cliff Lee didn’t win a WS for the Rangers last season.
Roy Halladay, Roy Oswalt, Cole Hamels and Joe Blanton didn’t win a WS for the Phillies last season.
Red Sox get AGon and Carl Crawford.
Phillies get Cliff Lee on top of Halladay, Oswalt, and Hamels
The Yanks get Russell Martin and have interest in Hairston Jr.
Hot dog. I think it’s safe to say this winter blows chunks right now.
============================================
No offense but this is why the Yankees are hated.
If we can’t get that quick fix to guarantee victory, we cry about it, like we are entitled to buy anything we need to get us over.
Yankees DO need another sub-ace near the top. Phil is a good #3 right now, Burnett is #5. Pettitte needs to be convinced to come back, but we also need arms in the pen and insurance in case of injury to AJ, Phil, or Pettitte.
Nobody is spinning anything West Coast Yankee Fan. People are voicing their opinions about the state of the Yankees.
You may consider it a disaster that Lee didn’t sign with the Yankees but plenty of people don’t see it that way.
The Yankees already have an ace and a very good young pitcher in Phil Hughes. Get Andy to come back and you have a VERY solid 1-3 who can line up with anyone’s 1-3. In fact CC and Andy can surely lineup against Lee and Halladay in the WS.
The one true wildcard is Burnett. If Burnett can be a semblance of the pitcher he was in 2009 then you have 4 pitchers who can give you anywhere from 180-230 quality innings.
The Yankees can trade for a number 3 type pitcher OR sign someone like Carl Pavano who can also give you quality innings.
Their lineup scored the most runs in baseball last season with Jeter having the worst year of his career and Cervelli seeing nearly half a season of plate appearances and a poo poo platter of guys in the DH role. They’ve upgraded their catcher and DH spots in the roster already and even you think Jeter will have a better year next year.
It’s December 14th, not April 1st. They have 4 months to work on filling any of the holes that they currently have.
You may not have faith in this team and think it’s a disaster that they didn’t get Lee, but I sure as hell do not.
Nice post Ray. That’s the consensus opinion of the non-chicken littles, I think.
“time to roll up the sleeves and for everyone to pull in the same direction.
if the yankees do this , i think that 2011 can be a positive turning point for the organization.”
A post from Randy that I can actually agree with in its entirety.
“time to roll up the sleeves and for everyone to pull in the same direction.
if the yankees do this , i think that 2011 can be a positive turning point for the organization.”
A post from Randy that I can actually agree with in its entirety.
I see at least one report that theYanks have agreed on terms with Martin.
Mike in Harrisburg December 14th, 2010 at 10:43 am
WCYF: At some point I think you have to accept that Lee (and his wife) may just not have wanted to come to New York. Cash put down the money and the years and Lee didn’t take it. That’s life. You move on.
***********
Sure. You move on what choice do you have. But no sense spinning things. People can talk about Lee not wanting to play here and Crawfords bad contract all they want. Last I heard, Yankee fans and management want to win now. I know I do.
You don’t play the game on paper and the winter isn’t over, but, an objective fan would have to admit that to date, so far, Cashman hasn’t done very well. General’s don’t make excuses, they have to achieve results. Sorry.
Ray, they are NOT going back to Pavano.
WCYF,
You’re a real trip!
Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 10:48 am
If Montero stays in AAA or is a bit player in the majors the Yanks have screwed up big time.
——————–
Not in 2011.
Reyes in Yankee pinstripes? He wears a “do rag.” I don’t care if he grows a third arm and can fly, the day that guy walks into the Yankee clubhouse, I become a Sox fan.
I guess the deal isnt done afterall:
Joelsherman1 Think 1st move post-Lee will be completing a deal with Martin. Sense #Yankees pushing very hard now on that.
Larry Rothschild would be the authority with Zambrano or Dempster. He was their pitching coach for all their time with the Cubs.
Maybe it was a certain teammate that caused Zambrano to self-destruct but when he returned after couseling for anger management, he had a 7-1 record for the rest of 2010.
Dempster is a workhorse.
Kerry Wood also knows Rothschild.
The catching may now be in place. Two slots in the starting rotation and bullpen fixes remain.
Dude, he signed with the Phillies for far less than what both Texas and Yankees were offering … what part of Cliff Lee not wanting to pitch for the Yankees and following his heart to get back to Philly (where he never wanted to leave in the first place) do you not understand?
================================
not totally convinced of that theory….he got a great deal, he used us and went back to them with the final offer and they beat it….we probably had a chance to top it but sanity prevailed.
Mets have said everyone is up for trade.
Any off chance Cash goes to them and tried to take Johan Santana off their hands?
I know he is hurt, but we know he can pitch.
i’m really looking forward to russell martin throwing out carl crawford and raining on red sox nation parade. carl crawford is so overrated it’s ridiculous.
montero now has the time to break in with much less pressure. excellent move.
108 stitches December 14th, 2010 at 10:54 am
Larry Rothschild would be the authority with Zambrano or Dempster. He was their pitching coach for all their time with the Cubs.
===============================
What do you think of a Zambrano for AJ deal?
RandyJMiller Apparently incident with Lee’s wife had last fall with Yankees fans wasn’t forgotten. Besides that, she’s not fond of NY. She LOVES Philly.
about 9 hours ago via TweetDeck
Retweeted by RiverAveBlues and 27 others
Reply Retweet .RandyJMiller A good source tells me that Cliff Lee”s wife is the main reason he didn’t sign with Yankees. She wanted NO PART of New York, i was told.
She is a total idiot. So instead of getting spit on, she’d rather be puked on. Makes sense.
?Cashman’s job was to sign Lee. He failed. Maybe he should have been to Arkansas more, sent Saathia, Mariano and Jeter to talk about Yankee tradition and monuments. Maybe it wouldn’t have helped we will never know.?
___________
Seems to me that Texas went that route, visits to pet the family dog and kiss up to the wifey. How’d that work for them?
If the guy had his heart set on the Phillies, and they gave some indication that they would bite on giving him a contract, there is nothing that was going to change the outcome.
Who knows. With that rotation the Phillies are set to make the playoffs pretty easily unless there is a meltdown of injuries for them. Plus Lee didn’t take a weak offer. He ends up with a higher yearly salary, which might be the main thing to him.
“Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 10:48 am
If Montero stays in AAA or is a bit player in the majors the Yanks have screwed up big time.
——————–
Not in 2011.”
Most especially in 2011.
People talking about Cliff Lee like Cashman had to get this done don’t understand that the Yankees are an old team with some guys who have contracts that are way overvalued. A-rod being one of them. Why would you give another overvalued contract to a 32 year old pitcher ?
I’m glad it didn’t happen because this team needs to get younger.
Well once again SJ44 was wrong. First he says the Rangers didn’t have the money to outbid the Yankees which they did. Second he said the Yankees would outbid everyone which they didn’t. Third he said the Yankees would land Lee which they didn’t. So much for his “insider information”
Also, a lefty in the pen should be a #2 priority after another starter and pettitte.
Martin’s deal is done pending a physical.
Randy am totally in agreement. Let’s strengthen from within. Get the fundamentals in and the foundation secure.
“Kerry Wood also knows Rothschild.”
sometimes that’s not a good thing.
he might not like him.
just saying.
Murph
Doesn’t that doo-rag keep his head from exploding?
Joelsherman1 #Yankees have deal in principle with Martin, but don’t want to admit publicly because he had enough health issues last yr that his physical is a big deal, not formality
It’s a tough pill to swallow for the next couple of seasons, but over the long haul not having that contract on the books may actually look pretty sweet when Lee’s career is winding down.
Baseball is a young man’s game, especially without the juice.
Wave
So I guess you really don’t like car wrecks
I think Martin is important because Montero is just 20 and if he struggles in any way, it would affect him AND the pitching staff. I do think he should stay on the big league roster and work with Posada, Martin, Girardi and Pena EVERYDAY, and get into the lineup a few times a week too.
In fact CC and Andy can surely lineup against Lee and Halladay in the WS
______________________________________________________________
Ray I think this is a stretch, lining up is one thing beating them much different. We never beat Lee and we seldom beat Halliday. We have lined these guys up against them before.
ac1
Johan Santana’s best days are behind him. He is now like Pedro Martinez post 2004. A pitcher with losing velocity and getting injured more often than not. He will get lit up in the AL East especially at Yankee Stadium and Fenway.
When will sj44 make a grand entrance and do his Q&A with all worried fans who want to know?
Yankees got a .773 OPS with 13 homers and 80 RBI out of the catcher’s position last year. That’ll be tough to match w/ Martin doing the bulk of the catching.
Wave,
You dont actually think that Jesus is going to perform at a high level in the majors this yr, do you? I mean, I’d love to see it. But I think that’s asking for a lot. I’d be happy if he hit .250 with the power we’ve heard about being apparent.
I can see a blockbuster deal sending AJ to the Cubs for Zambrano in a salary swap.
i hope cashman has already called pettitte and offered him a little more money to get him back here. Still need a pitcher that has at least 2 years left, because next years crop isnt looking real good either.
That’s if the Met’s traded him to the Yankees. But there is no chance of that happening.
“mick says:
December 14, 2010 at 10:49 am
Red Sox get AGon and Carl Crawford.
Phillies get Cliff Lee on top of Halladay, Oswalt, and Hamels
The Yanks get Russell Martin and have interest in Hairston Jr.
Hot dog. I think it’s safe to say this winter blows chunks right now.
============================================
No offense but this is why the Yankees are hated
Yeah we now feel what most other teams have to deal with every offseason
If we can’t get that quick fix to guarantee victory, we cry about it, like we are entitled to buy anything we need to get us over.”
Wave,
It would be extremely poor judgment on the Yankees part to have a 20 year old catcher with zero major league experience penciled in as their number one catcher with no fall back option.
The last 20 year old full time catcher was a terrible offensive player when he was 20 years old. I see nothing wrong with letting Montero ease into the position instead of thrusting him into the role when he has no experience.
AJ is not going anywhere unless he can start pitching better in 2011 than he did in 2010.
Crawdaddy. Why? I said clearly that the winter isn’t over didn’t I? But to date, Cashman has done little to improve the ball club. That’s a fact.
I can see a blockbuster deal sending AJ to the Cubs for Zambrano in a salary swap.
__
What does this do exactly? We need MORE pitching.
Honestly, I’m not a Cashman fan. Our run from 1996-2000 was build before Cashman took over. I can’t remember 1 good trade he’s ever made. I really didn’t like the way the Jeter negotiations were handled. When he said to the media “Let him shop our offer and see if he can find anything better” was completely classless. I think Lee was excited about playing for us last year when we had the trade in place. The only thing that’s happened since then was some loser, tasteless, classless, dumba__ insulted and spit on his wife. That would upset me also. To that idiot, please find another team. Yankee fans should have more class. If you want to act like red sox fans, then start following them.
I will be interested to see what Cashman and the Stein bros do from here. My guess is not much. I don’t think Cashman is a strong enough GM to pull any rabbits out of his hat. For nothing else but entertainment value and zest he brings I’d love to see Damon back, but I’m sure that won’t happen. We’ll probably trade Swisher for some third rate pitcher and lose the only excitable player we have.
Joelsherman1 #Yankees had lost such faith in Posada as C were willing to risk going all young with Montero/Cervelli/Romine, but feel if healthy Martin is a above-avg starter who could be bought relatively cheap, so why not take risk
I knew some Yankee fans were crazy when they said we should Make Tex the full time DH and sign Pujols.
“Get the fundamentals in and the foundation secure.”
bronxborn-
there’s something said to getting a kick in the butt and having to dig down to get the job done.
this is really an opportunity for cashman and the yankees to show the whole baseball world what they are all about .
i think the yankees could be really good this summer.
pat m says we’re going to love russel martin. i already know i love montero’s warp speed once in a generation bat.
this could be a very good summer to be a yankee fan.
Gary,
The Yanks have hit Halladay hard the past 2 years. Small sample size, I know. But it’s also the most recent sample size.
CountryClub December 14th, 2010 at 10:47 am
If Montero doesnt get traded (and I hope he doesnt), he’s going to be the backup this yr or he’s going to start in AAA. So signing Martin to a 1 yr deal (with control through 2012) doesnt hint at anything regarding how the Yanks think of Jesus.
Right now, without any trades, Cervelli and Montero will fight for the backup catcher’s job with the loser being stashed in AAA.
—
Montero will be given a shot at starting catcher. I think the Yankees hope he can play well and catch many games. He has nothing left to prove in the minors with his bat, it just remains to be seen if he can catch adequately. It’s more likely Martin was signed to be an upgrade to Cervelli as 2nd catcher, catch against speed teams, and backup if Montero is too poor behind the plate.
WCYF,
Because you’re so reactionary, you remind me of Red Sox fans pre-2004.
“mick says:
December 14, 2010 at 10:49 am
Red Sox get AGon and Carl Crawford.
Phillies get Cliff Lee on top of Halladay, Oswalt, and Hamels
The Yanks get Russell Martin and have interest in Hairston Jr.
Hot dog. I think it’s safe to say this winter blows chunks right now.
================================================
You know I never said that, right?
ok so we know cashman will probably get someone…. who is the realistic consenus to be our #2?
“ac1 December 14th, 2010 at 10:54 am: Mets have said everyone is up for trade. Any off chance Cash goes to them and tried to take Johan Santana off their hands? I know he is hurt, but we know he can pitch.”
“I know he is hurt but we know he can pitch”? Stop right there.
Muts will want waaaaaay too much for a pitcher whose best year are in the rear view mirror and who has health issues. If, however, they want to go cheap on what players they get in return, the Yanks can always eat some cash on that contract. But no way would I send them a Montero type offensive prospect or one of the young pitchers.
Besides CC, I dont like these odds of $100mm+ pitchers:
Kevin Brown
Johan Santana
Barry Zito
Mike Hampton
CC Sabathia
Cliff Lee
“Yankees got a .773 OPS with 13 homers and 80 RBI out of the catcher’s position last year. That’ll be tough to match w/ Martin doing the bulk of the catching.”
Of course it won’t be as difficult for the Yankees as will be for the Red Sox to match 2010 catching numbers.
Just catching up. I believe that the Yankees will use the money to fortify the bullpen.
Also signing Martin could also make Cervelli expendible for a trade.
As for Pavano, he was a clubhouse cancer. Would never work.
Getting Zambrano is not a great thing. He is a bigger headcase than Burnett. If you want to see UFC like matches at Yankee Stadium and horrible pitching performances that Zambrano is your guy. If he stinks in the pathetic NL Central than he will get lit up in the AL East.
mick December 14th, 2010 at 10:56 am
Murph
Doesn?t that doo-rag keep his head from exploding?
________________
I’m thinking some of his brains have already leaked out.
Joelsherman1 Think Martin is part Plan B, didn’t spend ton on No. 1 object (Lee) will now diversify and try to deepen roster #Yankees
SI_JonHeyman talented martin gives #yankees more certainty at catcher. can see them collecting players now. $148 mil is burning a hole in pocket
Zambrano??? Big no thanks. If you think AJ is a headcase…
Crawdaddy, your right about AJ. The thing left unmentioned here is that Lee had pin point control, he always hit his spots so you never got that good pitch to hit. On the other hand with Joba and AJ and even Phil when they miss they get hurt. Bashing Lee seems to be popular here, but he was a pitcher who is able to make his pitches. As a manager thats what you want, his ERA is 3 or below can’t ask for much more and he gives you those innings taking stress off the bullpen.
I agree that in the long run, not paying lee over 100 M could be a good thing, but there is no way Yankees will accept not going into the season with a pitching staff they are comfy with.
Erin December 14th, 2010 at 11:05 am
Joelsherman1 Think Martin is part Plan B, didn’t spend ton on No. 1 object (Lee) will now diversify and try to deepen roster #Yankees
SI_JonHeyman talented martin gives #yankees more certainty at catcher. can see them collecting players now. $148 mil is burning a hole in pocket
***************
If the Yankees are collecting players then sign Johnny Damon
“Also signing Martin could also make Cervelli expendible for a trade.”
why trade him?
why not put him at triple a?
he’s played enough that he doesn’t need to play all the time down there, and he’ll be ready anytime the yankees need him at the mlb level.
he’s a good back up . i say keep him.
Unfortunately fellas – its a coin flip now….Martin coming onboard means either Montero or Cervelli are gone, 100% gone……the need for pitching means Montero is the more likely guy to go in my opinion. Its a shame, but its likely true.
If I am Cashman I do call andy pettitte right now and simply say “look, we have waited for you for several offseasons now, this offseason is different, either way, we need an answer and we need it as soon as possible, we cant afford to wait for you”
I say this because we need to know if Andy is coming back before we make our starting pitching moves. You dont trade Montero for Greinke or any other top of the rotation guy if you have a rotation of CC, Andy, AJ, Hughes/(free agent/nova)…..but if he isnt coming back, then you have to make a move.
I hope they don’t trade Montero.
All I can say is Yankee fans were wrong in spitting at Lee’s wife…..what they should have done is forced her to wear a bag over her head….WOOF! Google Cliff Lee’s wife and no doubt you’ll agree…
Didn’t realize Santana’s deal was so backloaded.
The Mets owe him on average $26 million over the next 3 years including the buyout on a club option. Yikes.
“mick December 14th, 2010 at 10:56 am: Murph Doesn’t that doo-rag keep his head from exploding?”
Perhaps, but it didn’t do much for keeping his hammy (or whatever) from exploding. He’s got Tony Bernazard written all over him. Unless that guy has some kind of conversion experience, I don’t give a rats behind about any of his tools.
If the Mets would eat a chunk of Johan’s salary I would definitely at least look into it and check out his medicals.
Highly doubt it would ever happen though.
Please…..please don’t put Dom DeLuise back in the rotation.
LGY-
I don’t have a clever response, unfortunately.
CountryClub-
Montero has done what he can do at AAA. His bat belongs in the majors. Every day the Yanks don’t use him there is a wasted day.
If Cashman trades Montero for some garbage middle of the road pitcher then he needs to be fired. I don’t want to hear any more excuses for Cashman. A good GM wouldn’t give up a top of the line prospect for junk. You only give up a guy like that when Felix or John Johnson is available.
Andy knows the team wants him back and that he is needed, so we don’t need to tell him. Andy is one of those teams players you can count on to do what it takes. It will be a tough decision for him, but given his heart he will play another year if he thinks he can help the club. I expect him to now make a quick decison as he knows it impacts potentiall the Yanks next steps.
I was in Philly last month to see Roger Waters do The Wall. I have to say, it’s a pretty cool city. The people were friendly.
It’s certainly not NYC, but I can understand Lee’s affinity for the place.
Tom in N.J. December 14th, 2010 at 11:07 am
I hope they don’t trade Montero.
*****************
The way I see it, I am 100% certain one of the two following outcomes will transpire:
1) The Yankees trade Montero for a pitcher
2) The Yankees sign Carl Pavano
There is no way that one of those two things do not happen
How about the Yankees checking in with Cleveland on another one of CC’s old buddies, Fausto Carmona?
The Indians are in total rebuilding mode now … maybe they would consider dealing him for the right package. He is obviously not in Cliff Lee’s talent class, but you are talking about a pitcher who has been reliable and has also pitched in the post-season … he was dominant against the Yankees in Game 2 of the ’07 ALDS.
So if Pettitte resigns, you then have a rotation of CC, Hughes, Pettitte, Carmona, and AJ. Not too shabby.
Zambrano is feasible salary-wise, they both have 3 years left on their deals…If the Z – Rothschild relationship is good I say do it….Zambrano is at least a competitor and wants to win. He pitched great after his meltdown.
Who the Hell is john Johnson?
randy – you called it the other day. Yanks not getting Lee opens up another door – Use that money for development and other players, like Martin. I think getting him is a good move, despite the obvious health issue that needs to be cleared up. It’s not like it precludes doing anything else. And, I’d keep Cervelli at AAA, and not trade him unless it’s as part of a package for a quality player. The spare tire analogy is pretty good one here.
Maybe this opens up the door for Wood to come back. That wouldn’t be bad. It’s not unreasonable to think Nova will continue his development. I’d even be open to Joba getting another crack at starting. You never know.
I don’t think there’s going to be a lot of FA starters of quality next offseason, so it kind of forces Yanks to look at their own system. And, if a number of people are to be believed, there’s some pretty good arms there.
You don’t get trohys for winning the off season.
Crawdaddy December 14th, 2010 at 11:02 am
WCYF, Because you’re so reactionary, you remind me of Red Sox fans pre-2004.
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I’m in no way being reactionary. I said clearly the winter isn’t over. It’s a fact that twice this year Cashman had a shot at getting Lee and he failed. Excuses are not for big boys playing a grownup game.
murph
Perhaps, but it didn’t do much for keeping his hammy (or whatever) from exploding. He’s got Tony Bernazard written all over him. Unless that guy has some kind of conversion experience, I don’t give a rats behind about any of his tools.
===================================
could you imagine bringing him in to replace Jeter at SS???!!!????
The way I see it, I am 100% certain one of the two following outcomes will transpire:
1) The Yankees trade Montero for a pitcher
2) The Yankees sign Carl Pavano
There is no way that one of those two things do not happen
_______________________________________________________________________
Erica, I always respect your opinions but I am convinced #2 doesn’t happen therefore it’s in your analysis door 1
DocTodd December 14th, 2010 at 11:08 am
All I can say is Yankee fans were wrong in spitting at Lee’s wife…..what they should have done is forced her to wear a bag over her head….WOOF! Google Cliff Lee’s wife and no doubt you’ll agree…
________________________________________________________________________
Your right shes ugly as hell!!! They should have thrown her in the bathroom!!! She shouldve taken the most money to get some lipo done or fix her teeth
Lupica the ultimate prick is on Cowherd. This should be good…
Ken_Rosenthal
Martin deal w #Yankees would be for 1 year. However, he would be under club control thru arb in ’12. So, Yanks could have him for 2. #MLB
12 minutes ago via web
What’s was really interesting about the Yankees bid, was that it was huge money but not ridiculous.
The yankees didn’t just come in guns blazing and decide to simply make any other offer irrelevant.
It’s difficult to know how the offers compare as it’s unclear what the Yankees 5 year offer was in the different packages they presented to Lee.
And they probably got some sense during the negotiation that Lee may not have been enthusiastic about playing in NY any more. Who knows.
The Yankees wanted Lee a lot. But not at all costs. And that’s likely because he was 4 years older than CC was when they signed him. That’s a significant amount of risk on the contract.
Balancing those two factors – how much they wanted him and his age related risk – the Yankees made a huge offer but one that was within the market.
And at the end the didn’t make a panic bid or just start increasing their offer until the money was so ridiculous Lee couldn’t say know. They set a range of value on Lee and didn’t throw money at him.
They didn’t do anything rash when bidding for Lee. They well knew what the implications were.
I don’t think they’ll suddenly start acting rashly now that they’ve lost out on Lee.
They’ve wanted to get younger. 2011 is going to involve much more risk than the yankees and the yankees fanbase are used to seeing. They aren’t going to be able to build a 98-100 win team before the season starts.
But this is their opportunity to start defining what the next generation of yankee teams is going to look like.
Spread that money around CAsh ! This might be a good thing. “Someday we’ll look back on this and it will all seem funny…”
“Joe from Long Island December 14th, 2010 at 11:14 am: You don’t get trophys for winning the off season.”
Oooh rah! I’m getting that tattooed somewhere prominent!
the only way to unload AJ is to acquire someone of equal or greater salary, otherwise he’s untradeable.
mick December 14th, 2010 at 10:03 am
As someone said, imagine if we traded Montero for Lee and Lee bolted.
Now trade him again for another unknown?
Am I missing something?
///THIS IS why you want to develop your own players,why you want to stick it out with Chamberlain in the rotation,for instance. all that crying/slapping some do using “prospect hugger” derogatorily sounds a hollow note. nothing to do with hugging,has to do with building talent you get to make use of IN PRIME YEARS and controlling that talent from a finance POV,and NOT BEING AT THE MERCY of some free-agent’s whims.
to the types who keep throwing Betances/Banuelos names out there for Justin Upton,for instance,you just aren’t thinking at all. the yanks have to replenish their rotation as AJ grows older,Pettitte retires,and even as CC grows older. who do these folks think is going to step in to grow and youth the rotation if these top guys in the farm are traded away for a friggin’ corner outfielder? you want excitement for it’s own sake,for them to “do” something just to alleviate your humdrum life,but you’ll be bemoaning such nearsighted, myopic moves when the yanks suddenly go through a barren patch & have no good young starters.
I saw a reference to Johan Santana…..i bet this picks up steam here….in fact I guarantee it.
Let me say this: why would we take on a guy we have done nothing but pat ourselves on the back for not taking on years ago…..DURING THE WORST PART OF HIS CONTRACT WHEN HE IS IN DECLINE
Randy,
Yep. We will see how much grit the Yanks have now and how they respond. Do they dig down deep and not have to rely on the all-mighty checkbook? These are interesting times that can build strength and character for the organization and be champions despite the obstacles. I sure hope so. I truly do. I like building from within…
Joelsherman1 #Yankees exec: “We didn’t get 1,000 shares of Microsoft (Lee) so now we have to diversify our portfolio.”
Mick,
Zambrano has only 2 years left on his deal (at John Lackey money).
The third year is a player option that only vests if he finishes 1st or 2nd in CY award ballot in 2012. That’s not happening in the AL East, but if it does, the third year isn’t an issue.
Zambrano for 2 years isn’t a horrible gamble.
I’d want the Cubs to give us Marmol for taking that salary.
oh, murph!
How you doing?
Pitching wins championships, that slogan I have heard many times from many smart people.
I cant remember the last time I heard someone say “corner outfielders win championships”.
But this is their opportunity to start defining what the next generation of yankee teams is going to look like.”
CB-
True. Losing out on Lee is not all bad down the road. But historically speaking, that approach fails a lot more often than it succeeds.
# coney1 December 14th, 2010 at 10:55 am
RandyJMiller Apparently incident with Lee’s wife had last fall with Yankees fans wasn’t forgotten. Besides that, she’s not fond of NY. She LOVES Philly.
RandyJMiller A good source tells me that Cliff Lee’’s wife is the main reason he didn’t sign with Yankees. She wanted NO PART of New York, i was told.
She is a total idiot. So instead of getting spit on, she’d rather be puked on. Makes sense.
———————-
lol.
Makes sense. Lee and his wife were stoked to come here at the deadline, they were talking living arrangements with CC and his wife and it seemed inevitable he would come here.
Something obviously changed between then and now… the spitting incident is the obvious target point.
Zambrano has a vesting option past the two guaranteed years and that vesting option is for very large money.
Any team that trades for Zambrano has to be ready to have him for 3 years. And during those three years he’ll make close to 60M.
Bob December 14th, 2010 at 11:17 am
Spread that money around CAsh ! This might be a good thing. “Someday we’ll look back on this and it will all seem funny…”
************************
….but now Cashman’s sad, the fans are mad,
and the Phills are tellin’ Roy that they don’t have any money.
CB,
The vesting option only kicks in if he finishes first or second in CY in 2012.
If he pitches well enough to earn that option, he’d be worth the third year.
It’s really only 2 years of Zambrano at Lackey money.
Without Lee, the Upton scenarios make a lot less sense.
Marchand over at espn ny argues that the Yankees would not have gone after Lee if they truly believed AJ Burnett would have a rebound year. Um, not.
A rebound year for AJ is .500 or a little better, with flashes of dominance and dollops of giving up during a game. They were going after Lee regardless of AJ. Lee was the best pitcher available on the FA market and he always beats the Yankees. Sorry Marchand. Straw man much?
Carlo December 14th, 2010 at 11:21 am
Pitching wins championships, that slogan I have heard many times from many smart people.
I cant remember the last time I heard someone say “corner outfielders win championships”
—————-
Absolutely. But a better pitcher may be available in the summer than is available now.
True. Losing out on Lee is not all bad down the road. But historically speaking, that approach fails a lot more often than it succeeds.
——————-
No doubt, Wave. Especially in a market like NY.
I don’t know the Lees at all, obviously. But, I think it’s silly to make big decisions based on isolated incidents. But, speculating is pointless, doesn’t help anything, and it’s time to move on.
Another guy in red to hate. It’s what Yankee fans need to live.
Schilling – Papelpuke – Lee.
That being said, I wouldn’t trade AJ for him because we need pitching plus I’d want Marmol in that deal in exchange for taking on all that salary.
“2011 is going to involve much more risk than the yankees and the yankees fanbase are used to seeing. They aren?t going to be able to build a 98-100 win team before the season starts.”
I wonder if the yankees organization is built to NOT have a 98-100 win team, IE can they stomach it. With the new stadium, YES, and success of the past 15 years, if the yankees take a step back, what might happen? Its going to be interesting going forward of all the what if.
The Yankees are the BMW of baseball. BMW can not survive if you sell them like a KIA.
If the Yankees have several 85 win seasons, radical changes might occur. I don?t think we are there, but if so, look out.
Marchand over at espn ny argues that the Yankees would not have gone after Lee if they truly believed AJ Burnett would have a rebound year. Um, not.
—————
Be prepared for idiocy like that all winter. Already started this morning.
First, I’m happy to see this site isnt all doom and gloom today. i didnt read last night’s thread, but this morning has been pretty level headed.
Second, if the Yanks brought back Pettitte and Wood and then also signed Soriano, what would the consensus be? I’m not saying I think they should do this. Just asking what you would think of it as a “plan B”.
but now Cashman?s sad, the fans are mad,
and the Phills are tellin? Roy that they don?t have any money.
_____________
LOL
the spitting incident is just a red herring…people who were actually there have disputed what actually happened
Joe from Long Island December 14th, 2010 at 11:20 am:
We are well. Hope all is good with you and yours.
I’m sitting in my office in Mineola shaking my head at the weather and my clients, each which leave lots to be desired today.
Overall I’m fine that Lee is going to Philly. Too many years and too much cash. It would have been nice to have him, but not at that price. Let’s see what Cash comes up with when he has to improvise.
Everyone see Heyman’s tweet about the “classy move by Lee” to call Rangers’ Daniels to inform him personally that he wasn’t coming back to TX? Wow. Could you rub it in the Yanks’ face anymore than you already are?
Let’s give a big LoHud welcome to our next contestant on The Waiting Game: Andy Pettitte.
Thank the good Lord above that there won’t be any “mystery team” involved in this round.
I can only imagine Hanks reaction when news broke Lee signed with he Phils !
What do you think of a Zambrano for AJ deal?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tell ya what mick, it’s not what I think it’s what Rothschild thinks. What’s certain is Zambrano has played in front of a packed house at Wrigley many times and is 3 years younger than Burnett for close to the same money and better record.
No guarantees that Burnett can be fixed in New York. Rothschild knows everything about Zambrano. If he tells Cashman it’s no, then it’s no. Simple as that.
Wave Your Hat December 14th, 2010 at 11:21 am
But this is their opportunity to start defining what the next generation of yankee teams is going to look like.”
CB-
True. Losing out on Lee is not all bad down the road. But historically speaking, that approach fails a lot more often than it succeeds.
_______
Just think though, we have never had such a good farm system. Our pitching prospects are better than most in mlb. To not take the homegrown route is more fatal than to take it. The approach that will fail going forward is to rely on too many FA’s as the core of our team. Too many teams are keeping their players in their prime years. We need to develop and do the same, and Cash knows this.
Mike Ri December 14th, 2010 at 11:30 am
I can only imagine Hanks reaction when news broke Lee signed with he Phils !
***********
Imagine George’s reaction!
Zambrano?
Because – you want Zambrano but are concerned about Greinke being a headcase?
TRADE THE FARM AND THE BARN FOR JOSH JOHNSON AND HANLEY RAMIREZ!!!
Web – Lee did nothing wrong. There is no reason to be mad at him for not wanting to be in New York. Its not for everyone. I live in Manhattan and sometimes I absolutely hate it here. I cant fault him for that at all.
And for Heyman to say that was a classy move, yes, it was a classy move. He didnt owe us a call, he never played for us. He never had a personal relationship with us.
There are a lot of things the media will say and do to infuriate us in the coming days/weeks/months, but this in not one of them.
If you were Lee and you got to pitch on a staff that will rival the 71 Orioles, wouldn’t you?
Far less burden on him than TX and a far better chance to win a ring.
I would sooner deal for Victor Zambrano than I would for Carlos Zambrano.
“Losing out on Lee is not all bad down the road. But historically speaking, that approach fails a lot more often than it succeeds.”
Wave-
They did what they could to sign Lee. I just don’t think he was very enthusiastic about coming to NY for whatever reason. The Phils made him a comparable offer on AAV (perhaps more) and he jumped at it.
At this point they can’t trade pitching as readily.
And making a move like trading Montero for Buehrle may make them somewhat better for 2011 but it’s not a difference making move.
They’ll continue to use a balanced approach to building the team.
Not going to 170M guaranteed for Lee was part of that balance.
They are going to have to go into the season and absorb more risk. Trading players like Montero for mediocre to good veteran pitchers who have some kind of limitation/defect may provide them more certainty short term but their upside is unlikely to make the Yankees favorites to win the series.
And when I said define the next generation of yankee teams I meant it comprehensively. It’s not just bringing up the kids and throwing them out there. It’s not making a rash move now because later on a different move involving the same prospect could make more sense and return more value e.g. at the trade deadline.
“upstate kate December 14th, 2010 at 11:28 am: the spitting incident is just a red herring…people who were actually there have disputed what actually happened”
ZMAN called it. Be prepared for the onslaught of idiocy. Trot out all the “heads you lose, tails they win” stuff too. For example, if the Yankees got Lee the NESPN mediots would have revved up all the Evil Empire crap, putting aside of course the two moves the beloved Sox made. But since the Yankees didn’t get Cliff Lee, it’s because the Yankees’ fans allegedly spit on Lee’s wife.
February 13, 2011: pitchers and catchers and injured players. Can’t wait.
I wonder what Rothschild thinks of Zambrano.
So, if the Yankees promised Martin he will be the starting catcher – then Montero’s bat which we all were hoping would contribute mightily will be doing what?
New Thread guys / gals !! —->
As for my Hudson proposal – I see half the people think I’m giving up too much and the other half not enough so it must be a fair deal…
As for McLouth – I know he stunk last year to the point that he was sent to the minors, but the only way you get Hudson (I believe) is if you are willing to take back a bad salary like McLouth’s.
Frankly I think that if you stick him in the bottom of the Yankee lineup he’ll be fine – probably hit his fair share of homers out to RF and give you a fairly solid LF.
Carlo- my comment was more of a shot at Heyman than Lee. I know I’m reading too much into it, but it just rubs the wrong way. I understand it’s a classy move but it’s not like Lee was there for 5 years before leaving. And I’m not mad at Lee choosing Philly (see my previous comments).
sorry Josh Johnson. I was typing fast.
Soriano seems hell bent on being a closer for closer $$$. Cashman would not be interested in giving him closer dollars to share a closer role with Mariano and / or accepting a role as a set-up man for 2 years.
Zambrano also has a full NTC. AJ can name 10 teams each year he can’t be traded to, plus his wife loves the close proximity to Baltimore. She won’t fly.
CB-If the Yankees did have a sense that Lee would not come to NY, i think the Plan B is already in place and will be acted upon shortly.
Lefty Sean Marshall of the Cubs might be a good option for the bullpen or possibly as a starter.
FA Chris Young came back strong in September from an injury and might be worth a gamble.
Thoughts?
108 stitches December 14th, 2010 at 10:03 am
Cashman will not change his stance about Chamberlain in the starting rotation. That ship has sailed. He’s now a trading chip.
///It may be,or perhaps it gets revisited with the new pitching coach,he’s a power arms guy and what is Joba (& Burnett, in fact) if not a power arm?
BronxBorn
“I for one am glad this saga is over and moreover, I cannot wait until we play Philly and beat the pants off Lee. Truly this whole thing was a big turnoff for me, it made me tired of what the game has become. I am liking minor league ball it feels less tainted. I am not big on commercialism and baseball in this era does not feel like it is about the game anymore it is about who makes the most money. Money is on the scorecard and I just don’t like it. I like the smell of the leather of my mitt, the crisp sound of bat meeting ball. I like when someone dives to make a catch or a pitcher who hits spots perfectly not always with force but with finesse. I don’t measure the game by numbers I measure it by excitement and emotion. I don’t know whether that is old school or not. I just have always loved the game. But this stuff, win at any cost. I don’t love it so much.
Just my two cents.”
************************************************
I wasn’t going to bother posting this morning, thinking of all the crazy things that were going to be written, but, after reading what BronxBorn posted, it was good to see someone that’s both civil and sensible had written something worth reading today.
BTX December 14th, 2010 at 11:33 am
If you were Lee and you got to pitch on a staff that will rival the 71 Orioles, wouldn’t you?
Far less burden on him than TX and a far better chance to win a ring.
———————————————————————————————————————-
They’re at least one pitcher short of rivaling the ’71 Orioles.
If you want someone to hate more than Mr. and Mrs. Cliff Lee this morning I give you this as a public service.
http://www.funnyordie.com/vide.....rst?ref=nf
I would rather watch the kids develop and lose than reach for Vets that won’t guarantee anything….That’s just my opinion. Would be so much more rewarding if the kids DID win….If Jesus goes that would be so disappointing.
“To not take the homegrown route is more fatal than to take it. The approach that will fail going forward is to rely on too many FA’s as the core of our team.”
I agree with this observation but with a huge reservation.
A huge part of the phenomenal success the Yanks have enjoyed since 1996 was the marriage of a bumper crop of fantastically talented young players with the financial clout to land whatever pieces were necessary to complement them.
The Lee saga shows that the financial clout, while still significant, is relatively less of a game-changer than it was, while the jury is still out on how good the current farm crop actually is.
That puts the Yanks in a boat that is not much bigger than that of a number of teams. Overall, I see more competition than there was and a corresponding drop in the likelihood of success.
upstate kate December 14th, 2010 at 11:28 am
the spitting incident is just a red herring…
==================================
reminds me of a seinfeld episode.
“you called it the other day.”
joe in long island-
it’s not so much calling it as having a part of me i call my”healthy bad attitude” kicking in.
healthy bad attitudes are very valuable when other people start acting up.
lee was getting even more annoying than he always was.
i basically said screw him. he’s no yankee.
and now i’m looking forward to martin and montero providing the yankees with some very interesting catching potential this coming summer( with posada there to help out when necessary) .
and seriously, burnett seems like he came to depend on eiland and let’s face eiland wasn’t 100 % into his job last summer. aj could benefit from rothschild immensely.
as a matter of fact, without know rothschild but hearing a lot about him in the last month, i expect burnett will be closer to the 4.00 era guy than the 5.50 era guy last summer.
the yankees are in perfect shape to come out and surprise other teams.
Thanks Big Al,
I love the game…
randy l. -
I think you’re right, this summer will be a great time to be a Yankees fan.
Hopefully the fair weather fans will pack up and leave now, so we don’t have to read their none stop whinning.
It really is amazing when you think that unless the Yankees blow an A level free agent out of the water they won’t get him. It used to be something special to play for the Yankees. If the Angels had offered CC the same money that the Yanks did he would have picked them. If Luccino didn’t piss off Tex he would have signed with them.
Halladay gives a hometown discount to Philly. Lee leaves more money on the table to sign with them after they traded him.
Although they overpaid for Crawford players give Boston hometown discounts all the time only to be treated like garbage.
and even when we resign our own they milk us for much more then they would get on the open market
Does anyone else think the crappy way Cashman and the Yankees handled the Jeter situation had some bearing on Lee’s decision? Jeter, “the face of the organization”, the yankee captain, a youth role model, a player that gives 100% all the time, is told to “test the market” shows a complete lack of class by the yankees management.