Still waiting for official word on Martin
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 15, 2010 
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Still no official announcement from the Yankees, but Buster Olney says the physical is done and the Russell Martin signing should become official soon.
Given Martin’s hip issues, the physical wasn’t exactly a given. He’s expected to get roughly $4 million.
FELIX HERNANDEZ and JOSH JOHNSON
I think an opening offer of Phil Hughes + Jesus Montero + 1 Killer B is compelling enough to sway a GM’s decision about whether or not to cash out early on a prized proven young ace.
The question would be if the Yankees are willing to pay that much for an upgrade of 1 pitching slot.
There could be little difference between CC/Hughes vs. CC/Johnson.
But then again, CC and JJ getting 4 starts in one series could insure that the Yankees match up with the Phillies monster rotation in a world series.
catching depth…hmmm….i wonder whats up brian’s sleeve?
Martin is an upgrade over Cervelli. I expect a solid year from Martin, Long will help him. Jeter will get back to .300
ICHIRO
Is my darkhorse trade target for Brian Cashman. He makes a ton of money and the Mariners seem to be building around Felix Hernandez and their young rotation instead.
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Where would Ichiro play on the yankees? He is a right fielder, who will play CF if you ask him to but really loves right field. Its always possible he’d move to left for a contender like the Yanks, but I think the Ichiro ship sailed a few years ago, when I really wanted us to trade for him.
It is unfortunate he signed that extension with the Mariners, as his rumored 2nd choice was to accept a trade to the Yankees and sign an extension there.
4 mil is not a ton of money for a part time catcher. Heck, Jose Molina made 2.5 in his last year with the Yankees and caught roughly a third of the games Martin will probably handle…
Nice investment.
Plus he’s under team control for next year too as an arbitration elligible player.
“I think an opening offer of Phil Hughes + Jesus Montero + 1 Killer B is compelling enough to sway a GM’s decision about whether or not to cash out early on a prized proven young ace.”
Yeah, you’d think that might get you pretty close, especially if the Killer B is NOT Brackman.
It’s almost an even deal with with a Zambrano for Burnett situation with just about $2M separating their contracts, per Cotts. Zambrano waived his full no-trade clause several weeks ago. Burnett can block deals to 10 clubs each year for the remaining 3 years of his contract. Zambrano is 3+ years younger than Burnett. Nobody in the game knows Zambrano better than Larry Rothschild does. Not forgotten is his his 7-1 record after his meltdown in 2010 as a result of his anger management sessions.
If Cashman were to consider the deal, he needs only to consult with his pitching coach who may feel a change of scenery is exactly what is best for both pitchers.
Burnett has a ring from the Marlins and Yankees and is not likely to pitch the Yankees to another one.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo…..fhelp.html
If Martin hits .260 it’s fine. As long as he can give them solid D behind the plate and stay healthy.
If so, $4M is a bargain.
His health has to be a concern. But there is an opportunity for big reward with this signing.
“The question would be if the Yankees are willing to pay that much for an upgrade of 1 pitching slot.”
That is the key question. I don’t want to give up Hughes.
But then again, CC and JJ getting 4 starts in one series could insure that the Yankees match up with the Phillies monster rotation in a world series.
=================================
IF the Phils can get past SF and their monster rotation.
Jerkface December 15th, 2010 at 10:40 am
ICHIRO
Is my darkhorse trade target for Brian Cashman. He makes a ton of money and the Mariners seem to be building around Felix Hernandez and their young rotation instead.
—————–
Why would the Mariners, a team that is thriving based on interest from Japan, shoot themselves in the foot by trading Ichiro?
Bret The Hitman December 15th, 2010 at 10:10 am
CASHMAN mired in 2 year slump:
In the past couple off seasons Cashman has cut ties with beloved players like Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui. His additions have been failures and his failed targets significant.
Nick Johnson, Javier Vazquez, Randy Winn. He missed out on or was never really in the running for Cliff Lee, Carl Crawford and Jayson Werth.
Curtis Granderson is a great player but Cashman gave up 3 solid major leaguers for him in Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy and Phil Coke.
You really can’t go through 2 off seasons in a row producing zero to little short term and long term help for the New York Yankees.
Eventually the fans are going to swarm and circle like sharks.
Cashman is definitely on the hot seat right now.
Unless his plan B of patience materializes into real assets, the Steinbrothers are going to get their bite on soon too.
————————————
Bret,
I don’t really mind losing Austin Jackson, but it’s the Phil Coke loss and to a lesser extent the Ian Kennedy loss that gets me. We sure could use both as options now, particularly Coke.
“his rumored 2nd choice was to accept a trade to the Yankees and sign an extension there.”
I think he was actually quoted on that. That the only team he’d go to was the Yanks becaue they were winners. I wanted him pretty badly around that time as well. Guy has to be one of the funniest players in the league. Can’t believe he signed that extension so the M’s could pay for his Honda Civic…doesn’t he know Jeter’s got an edge?!
That is the key question. I don’t want to give up Hughes.
====================================
Would you do Hughes for Felix?
Trading Hughes would just be robbing Peter to pay Paul…
BD (Boston Dave) December 15th, 2010 at 10:41 am
If Martin hits .260 it’s fine. As long as he can give them solid D behind the plate and stay healthy.
If so, $4M is a bargain.
His health has to be a concern. But there is an opportunity for big reward with this signing.
————–
It’s not everyday you get a 27 year old All Star calliber catcher for $4 mil.
“I think an opening offer of Phil Hughes + Jesus Montero + 1 Killer B is compelling enough…”
If that’s the opening offer, what’s the final offer?
I’m more interested in King Felix because he has never had a significant injury.
Why would the Mariners, a team that is thriving based on interest from Japan, shoot themselves in the foot by trading Ichiro?
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Ask Bret? My entire point is that a trade for Ichiro is unlikely.
Wasn’t physicals exchanged with a Martin for Cervelli deal over a week ago ?
Without Lee in the fold, I can’t see any chance the Yanks trade Hughes.
Without Lee’s salary inflating the payroll, from a fan’s standpoint the $4M to Martin is not particularly important, although I don’t have much confidence Martin will give the Yanks much offensively.
If Cashman were to consider the deal, he needs only to consult with his pitching coach who may feel a change of scenery is exactly what is best for both pitchers.
=========================================
Finally someone who makes sense. Zambrano could be a monster and from what I see his problem is he just wants to win.
Chad Finn hit the nail on the head.
” Brian Cashman probably was forced by Randy Levine and the Sons of Steinbrenner to rappel out of his office window last night after the rejection letter arrived. But seven years and $154 million, for a pitcher who will be 33 next summer, one who is reliant on plus-plus command rather than overpowering stuff, one who has had back issues off and on and had a 6.29 ERA as recently as 2007, one whose most similar comp and age 30 and 31 is Denny Neagle? Is he really worth it, or is a just someone who synchronized his peak and free agency perfectly?”
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have been stating this, the past 2 months
Boone Logan gave the Yanks about what they’d have gotten from Coke.. except maybe less HR to Chase Utley in the WS.
Coke is useful, but hardly a huge loss.
I would consider Montero and all 3 Bs for Felix if that meant I got to keep Hughes……that’s the definition of a king’s ransom but hey…..Hernandez is special.
DaSaint -
I know how you feel about Coke but truly I don’t think he’s anything special. To me he’s in the Chase Wright, Sean Henn category – gives up too many HRs as a reliever for me to really trust him as a starter too.
I think Feliciano will be a fine addition if they get him and between he and Logan will handle the left side of the pen and I wouldn’t take Coke in the rotation ahead of Nova or Noesi or Phelps.
Trading Hughes would just be robbing Peter to pay Paul…
—————————
winner.
Wasn’t physicals exchanged with a Martin for Cervelli deal over a week ago ?
–
Medicals were exchanged, but any signing or trade is only complete when the player passes an actual exam by team doctors/doctors approved by the team.
Although in some cases that is waived.
# 108 stitches December 15th, 2010 at 10:44 am
Wasn’t physicals exchanged with a Martin for Cervelli deal over a week ago ?
——————————————
Martin’s medical records might have been given to the Yanks at that point (heard conflicting reports on that), but he did not take a physical.
Phil Coke???!!! To hold up getting Granderson?? Cmon man!
I would actually be VERY interested in Zambrano because I like my players gritty (something I think our team usually lacks) and a bit crazy. Usually, the Yankees handle those types of personalities well.
I cant imagine getting Zambrano would cost the same as dealing for Greinke or Felix or Johnson or any other trade thats obviously not going to happen anyway. Realistically, what do you guys think we’d have to give up besides taking on his salary?
Chip,
True… but Martin can be a league average starting catcher and the $4M will have been worth the risk.
It’s really a low risk move that buys them options with Montero or Posada.
If not Martin, then who? Gregg Zaun? Chad Moeller? They needed somebody.
# blake December 15th, 2010 at 10:46 am
I would consider Montero and all 3 Bs for Felix if that meant I got to keep Hughes……that’s the definition of a king’s ransom but hey…..Hernandez is special.
——————————————
I’d be willing to pull the trigger on this, too, I’m thinking. Thing is, I don’t know if that gets a deal done…
“Wasn’t physicals exchanged with a Martin for Cervelli deal over a week ago ?”
Thought I saw the Dodgers weren’t willing to part with them.
over/under for number of black eyes if AJ and Big Z are on the same team?
Realistically, what do you guys think we’d have to give up besides taking on his salary?
======================
aj
# Shame Spencer December 15th, 2010 at 10:48 am
I would actually be VERY interested in Zambrano because I like my players gritty (something I think our team usually lacks) and a bit crazy. Usually, the Yankees handle those types of personalities well.
I cant imagine getting Zambrano would cost the same as dealing for Greinke or Felix or Johnson or any other trade thats obviously not going to happen anyway. Realistically, what do you guys think we’d have to give up besides taking on his salary?
—————————————————-
If we took on all of his salary, the package shouldn’t be too much. Maybe a couple B prospects. Or a B and a C.
BD (Boston Dave) December 15th, 2010 at 10:48 am
Chip,
True… but Martin can be a league average starting catcher and the $4M will have been worth the risk.
It’s really a low risk move that buys them options with Montero or Posada.
If not Martin, then who? Gregg Zaun? Chad Moeller? They needed somebody.
————————-
Oh I’m 100% behind the Martin signing.
Why are people trying to use Hughes in a trade for a pitcher? We need MORE pitching, not to replace one with another.
i give up hughes for Felix but not Montero
I can’t believe there are people on this blog who are worried about Greinke’s mental status but advocate picking up Zambrano.
Trading Hughes would just be robbing Peter to pay Paul…
===============
Yep.
Getting Felix seems impossible.
But I have to admit, it might be worth selling the farm just to see Sawx fans, Peter Gammons, etc cramping their pants. It’d be a complete 180 from “haha, we are better than you” to “waaaa, that’s no fair!”
“Would you do Hughes for Felix?”
I would have to if I’m in essence replacing Lee with Felix. Would then need a #3 behind CC and Felix. I don’t trust AJ.
I do believe Hughes will develop into a #2.
not “cramping” their pants, obviously.
Darn iphone
Rodj,
You’re right…it may take even more than that. However from Seattles POV, they had Felix last year and still were terrible. They need a lot more than 1 great pitcher.
who cares what gammons thinks, people have too much time on their hands
mick – I see no point in trading one headache for another when combined you might get the equivalent of a good season out of them. I could see them both getting at least 10 wins couldn’t you? Zambrano should at least be able to eat up some innings and make the NY Post headlines more interesting. I’m all for filling this team with misfit toy starters until the All-Star break because I really think we’re strong enough to be in the race with CC, Hughes, and (god willing) Andy at the top of our order.
I can’t believe there are people on this blog who are worried about Greinke’s mental status but advocate picking up Zambrano.
–
I think All-Consuming Rage is a better bet to be focused into something positive than being scared of the bright lights and attention one would find in a room containing more than 3 people.
Let’s forget the fact that King Felix isn’t and won’t be available for a second.
From the Yankees the Seattle GM wanted: Montero, Nunez, Warren and Nova for half a season of Cliff Lee.
What do you think he’s going to want for one of the best young pitchers in the game signed to a reasonable long term contract?
I don’t get the AJ for Big Z sentiment. Don’t see how this helps us.
cramping your pants? i have done that, most uncomfortable
getting rid of aj is called addition by subtraction
Jerkface December 15th, 2010 at 10:54 am
I can’t believe there are people on this blog who are worried about Greinke’s mental status but advocate picking up Zambrano.
–
I think All-Consuming Rage is a better bet to be focused into something positive than being scared of the bright lights and attention one would find in a room containing more than 3 people.
———–
Yes, I know when I think of Carlos Zambrano the terms positive focus jump right into my mind.
Chip – Greinke comes with a very hefty price. Obviously, I’m pretty sure most people here would take him over Zambrano in a heartbeat all things being equal. I just like the idea of adding guys that have a chip on their shoulder at this point. I think the Yanks have a track record of getting results from players like that.
A deal with the Mariners for King Felix is unlikely. Cashman offered Montero and others for Lee last July and got spurned. Jack Zduriencik, the Seattle GM is not the ideal trading partner for Cashman and would want all the high end Yankee prospects. That ship has sailed.
over/under for number of black eyes if AJ and Big Z are on the same team?
———————————-
winner #2.
CC, Felix, Pettite, Hughes, AJ would lay the smackdown on the Phillies rotation……also would be much younger overall. Pipe dream.
Anyone who wouldn’t do Hughes for Felix straight up…. well… it’s a no-brainer if the goal is to field the best team now and for the future.
shame
aj and z together sounds too combustible for me…then again maybe Z would kill him and it would be just like a trade
“I can’t believe there are people on this blog who are worried about Greinke’s mental status but advocate picking up Zambrano”
Is crazy like chorestoral? Comes in both good and bad? Good crazy and bad crazy? Which one would Zambrano be?
I’ll say this for him, he was lights out down the stretch last year. 7-0, 1.06 over his last 9 starts with a slugging percentage against of under .200. If he could be that guy, I suppose I’d swap Burnett for him in a heartbeat.
I think he may be bad crazy though.
Am I crazy for thinking AJ will have an ERA around 4.30 this season – matching John Lackey?
I do think AJ turns it around – at least from terrible to serviceable.
Matt Guerrier locks up with the Dodgers for 3 years.
BD, it would be even better to listen to the talk radio and ESPeeN creatures spouting the rich get richer, and woe to the poor Saux and Phillies who don’t have anything.
Yes, I know when I think of Carlos Zambrano the terms positive focus jump right into my mind.
–
Carlos Zambrano hasn’t had an ERA over 4 since his first season. I think his walk rate isn’t likely to help him much in the AL East, but swapping AJ and Zambrano would be aces I think. Or acquiring Zambrano for a pittance.
*cholesterol
BD
what do you base that on?
i see zambrano with the rothschild connection
# BD (Boston Dave) December 15th, 2010 at 10:59 am
Am I crazy for thinking AJ will have an ERA around 4.30 this season – matching John Lackey?
I do think AJ turns it around – at least from terrible to serviceable.
————————————————
I don’t think this is crazy. I think this is very possible. Also a decent chance he finishes with an ERA under that like he’s done numerous times throughout his career.
Mick – I understand the sentiment but as I said before, I’m just advocating picking up whatever misfit toy pitchers are available. Get them in there without selling any of our prospects (because we may need a few of them for the trade deadline) and tred water (which in the AL East makes you the best team in the league anyway) until more solid options are available.
Mell December 15th, 2010 at 10:59 am
“I can’t believe there are people on this blog who are worried about Greinke’s mental status but advocate picking up Zambrano”
Is crazy like chorestoral? Comes in both good and bad? Good crazy and bad crazy? Which one would Zambrano be?
I’ll say this for him, he was lights out down the stretch last year. 7-0, 1.06 over his last 9 starts with a slugging percentage against of under .200. If he could be that guy, I suppose I’d swap Burnett for him in a heartbeat.
I think he may be bad crazy though.
———————
Mell,
I don’t think you can define fist fights with multiple teammates, being suspended by the team multiple times, and almost regular destruction of the dugout and clubhouse as anything but bad crazy.
salary wise it’s the only match for aj that also brings value
It would be pretty hard for AJ to put in a worse year than last season was. I think he’d have to work really hard at it, but his melt downs last year were pretty phenominal.
BD:
4.30 – 4.40 range seems about right to me for Burnett.
I very much doubt the conservative Hal and Cashman would want Zambrano on the Yankees. It seems they very much desire to avoid embarassment (see A-Rod).
Anyone know if there was any truth to the rumor they are trying to put PED clauses in contracts now?
shame-z is this misfit toy you speak of…you can only get him for aj…he would be fine here in NY’s big stage
I think to get Felix they would ask for Cano, Hughes, Montero and some prospects. There is no way they would trade him. Don’t know why people think its plausible.
CARLOS ZAMBRANO
Thanks for the awesome link “108 stitches”
I find this bit particularly intriguing:
“…exploring the trade market with the Cubs’ Carlos Zambrano, who experienced a turnaround both in temperament and results under the tutelage of new Yankee pitching coach Larry Rothschild the last six weeks of last season, a likely target.”
Under the Yankees new pitching coach, Zambrano was 3-0 in August with a 2.23 ERA and 5-0 in September with a 1.10 ERA and .976 WHIP.
Maybe he rediscovered himself.
Found Jesus?
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....fhelp.html
Chip December 15th, 2010 at 10:52 am
I can’t believe there are people on this blog who are worried about Greinke’s mental status but advocate picking up Zambrano.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What’s to lose ? There’s a certain amount of risk in both but Rothschild does know Zambrano and it’s a basic contract tradeoff. If Rothschild offers his opinion of either yes or no, Cashman will listen.
K.C will want top Yankee prospects that are better off kept in the event some are needed at the all important 7/31 trading deadline.
# jacksquat December 15th, 2010 at 11:03 am
Anyone know if there was any truth to the rumor they are trying to put PED clauses in contracts now?
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This ‘rumor’ was a complete and total fabrication by one of the commentators on this blog.
having faith in aj is a road i would not want to travel…i can see the 1st time he screws up
Jerkface -
a couple of thoughts:
1. I don’t see why the Cubs would swap Z for AJ straight up. As you pointed out – Zambrano is crazy but he’s also been effective. AJ is coming off a really poor year.
2. I don’t get why the Cubs would give up Z for a pittance either.
3. The Cubs are in a weak division – they just added Carlos Pena for a big salary which tells me they are trying to win. Giving up Zambrano doesn’t help them with that endgame.
4.30 – 4.40 range seems about right to me for Burnett.
–
Thats really optimistic given how he looked last year. If he pitched to that number I’d be very, very pleased.
At this point, AJ Burnett needs to focus on not throwing up all over himself on the mound. He doesn’t need to be lights out, just not quite so self destructive. His declining velocity and strike out rate were not encouraging though.
The Yankees don’t really need an ace (either Greinke or Zambrano).
They need a solid mid rotation starter who can eat innings and keep the offense in the game with an ERA around 4 – 4.5.
I think if the White Sox are either willing to eat his salary or take back nothing in return, Jake Peavy would be a great fit for that, and he comes with the potential of being more than a midrotation guy if things click in for him again.
If the Yankees ever brought Zambrano over they had better keep a cattle prod handy. Just in case.
Then again, that might be cost-effective anyway since they could also just as easily use it on AJ to keep him “focused”.
The cubs might want to get out from under Zambrano’s contract, which is hefty. The cubs themselves have been swindled in trades, or shown to not value players properly. If they think Zambrano is a bad fit, especially with the pitching coach who ‘saved him’ gone, I don’t see why they wouldn’t entertain a trade.
Since I put the likelihood of him being dealt to the Yankees as very slim, I think its not something to worry about. Just seems to be a topic that everyone else wants to talk about.
“I think to get Felix they would ask for Cano, Hughes, Montero and some prospects. There is no way they would trade him. Don’t know why people think its plausible”
You know what else isn’t plausible? Losing 95+ games every year and expecting people to show up. I’m not suggesting that the M’s will trade Hernandez right now, but would suggest that the M’s doing anything but losing 95 games a year appears unlikely as presently constructed. If an ace pitcher can at some point be turned into two potential high end starters (say Hughes and Betances) and a middle of the order bat (Montero) that you can parlay with the likes of Smoak and Ackley, there’s a chance they’d on their way to building a competitive team.
Or on Joba to motivate him to work out in the OS.
Jerkface December 15th, 2010 at 11:10 am
The cubs might want to get out from under Zambrano’s contract, which is hefty. The cubs themselves have been swindled in trades, or shown to not value players properly. If they think Zambrano is a bad fit, especially with the pitching coach who ’saved him’ gone, I don’t see why they wouldn’t entertain a trade.
Since I put the likelihood of him being dealt to the Yankees as very slim, I think its not something to worry about. Just seems to be a topic that everyone else wants to talk about.
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If Rothschild turned to Cashman and said “listen, I really think you should go after this guy…” I think Brian would listen to him (as evidenced I believe by the Prior signing) so I’m not going to totally discount the possibility – but I do think it would take more than AJ or some toss in players to get done.
My guess – and again, this is pure speculation – is that Hendry would at least want Swisher and Joba and ask the Yankees to take back Fukudome or Byrd’s contracts.
Personally if the deal on the table was:
Swisher & Joba for Zambrano, Byrd and Marshall – I would probably swallow hard and do it.
Zambrano has a no trade clause and said that he’s not leaving the Cubs until they win a World Series. That means he’ll be there until he’s dead.
Maybe yankees find a way to get Ichiro…..
Laura – I Bleed Blue December 15th, 2010 at 11:15 am
Zambrano has a no trade clause and said that he?s not leaving the Cubs until they win a World Series. That means he?ll be there until he?s dead.
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“Am I crazy for thinking AJ will have an ERA around 4.30 this season – matching John Lackey?
I do think AJ turns it around – at least from terrible to serviceable.”
bd-
here’s my thinking.
eiland obviously had developed a good pitching coach/player relationship with aj.
eland clearly was not all there last season. he lireally wasn’t there for an extended period and i’m sure his mind was not 100% on business with yankee pitchers and burnett in particular.
so rothschild could get aj back to where he was. rothschild seems to have a good coaching rep and with a 100% focus on burnett i don’t see why burnet couldn’t get back to a low 4.00 era.
one downside of the true believer tendencies of the majority of the blog have with cashman is total trust in cashman’s coaches.
it goes without saying that eland started being a problem long before he was let go. just because a coach is hired by cashman it doesn’t mean he’s something special. the yankees because they do not have a yankee way do not have continuity when they make coaching changes.
if there was a yankee way, last summer when eland had problems that would result in his firing, the yankees could have moved the next in line pitching coach into his spot and aj may have not gone into a major slump that he still hasn’t come out of.
this changing philosophies every time a new coach comes in has to be changed. the yankees need a basic approach and philosophy that is taught at all levels.
Maybe yankees find a way to get Ichiro…..
–
Bret brought this up earlier, but at this point in time… why? Trading for Ichiro would have been a cool move like 3 years ago. Where would he play? This surely would have to be a trade made with other trades in mind?
What is the final tally of players lost vs players acquired that ends with Ichiro playing some position on the yankees?
Chip, would you get off Jake Peavy?
The Sox aren’t going to trade him, and the Yanks shouldn’t trade for him, both for obvious reasons.
The Yankee Way must be taught to all players!*
*cannot be taught to coaches
I don’t think anyone is assessing Zambrano as an ace and I can’t imagine his cost (prospect wise) would be as steep as it would be if he actually was one. He’d prob be a better fit as a #4-#5 and the Yanks can afford to pay a salary like that for a #4-#5 starter at this point.
No way of knowing how much Cashman is working on signing Pedro Feliciano or Kerry Wood. Hopefully it’s high on his agenda. A solid bullpen is a must for 2011.
Snag in any Burnett – Zambrano deal ? Throw Chamberlain in the deal. He’s as good as he’ll ever get and will be closer to Nebraska. Sweeten it even more ? Add Kevin Russo who doesn’t seem to have a Yankee future.
I’d like to see them trade for Nolasco, Carmona or Billingsley without giving up Montero or Romine. Then maybe sign Buehrle next offseason. Or Yu Darvish.
Wave Your Hat December 15th, 2010 at 11:17 am
Chip, would you get off Jake Peavy?
The Sox aren’t going to trade him, and the Yanks shouldn’t trade for him, both for obvious reasons.
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If people can bring up Ichiro, Josh Johnson, King Felix or Carlos Zambrano as viable trade targets then I can certainly bring up Jake Peavy.
Thank you for your opinion on the matter.
What if… what if like, the Yankee way was a standard of dedication and work ethic… like, that anyone could possess regardless of their actual baseball methodology. And anyone who worked hard enough, and showed enough desire, could be a Yankee. Even the lowliest of prospects, as long as they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps.
Could this explain Melky Cabrera and Jose Tabata’s exit from the Yankee Way?
Who wins this fight ?
Carlos Zambrano or Jake LaMotta.
Remember that Zambrano is allowed to do a Mike Tyson on La Motta.
# Chip December 15th, 2010 at 10:54 am
Let’s forget the fact that King Felix isn’t and won’t be available for a second.
From the Yankees the Seattle GM wanted: Montero, Nunez, Warren and Nova for half a season of Cliff Lee.
What do you think he’s going to want for one of the best young pitchers in the game signed to a reasonable long term contract?
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FYI – you can add to the uphill battle it will be to get Felix the following: Heyman reporting that the yankees are believed to be on Felix’s no trade list.
And yes, I know laMotta has gone to that big boxing ring the sky.
Chip-
My pleasure. No need to thank me.
MTU December 15th, 2010 at 11:23 am
Who wins this fight ?
Carlos Zambrano or Jake LaMotta.
——————-
Kyle Farnsworth.
Shame-
Even farnsworth could not lift Zambrano for that final body slam.
CARLOS ZAMBRANO
With the Cubs looking to unload Zambrano in a salary dump, don’t expect them to take back a bad contract like Burnett’s. Plus, the Yankees need pitching and would gain little to nothing by swapping one volatile starter for another. The benefit of trading for him is his high salary makes him harder to move for top prospects on other teams, thus the Yankees could protect their best trade chips. He might be had with a package centered on Joba Chamberlain.
MTU – He might not be able to get him off the groud but I’d take Kyle Farnsworth in any fight, on any day, under any circumstances. Period.
“Carlos Zambrano or Jake LaMotta”
Vicki LaMotta
Bret The Hitman December 15th, 2010 at 11:26 am
CARLOS ZAMBRANO
With the Cubs looking to unload Zambrano in a salary dump, don’t expect them to take back a bad contract like Burnett’s. Plus, the Yankees need pitching and would gain little to nothing by swapping one volatile starter for another. The benefit of trading for him is his high salary makes him harder to move for top prospects on other teams, thus the Yankees could protect their best trade chips. He might be had with a package centered on Joba Chamberlain.
——————
The Cubs just added Carlos Pena for $10 mil – why do they need to cut payroll?
Yet another name to use about Zambrano is Lou Piniella who is the nearest thing to family with the Steinbrenners. Who better than Lou and Rothschild ? Certainly not W.B Mason.
Hey. I got an idea. Why don’t we bring Zambrano and Greinke. they’ll be able to keep each other company in the dugout.
Kind of a yin and yang sort of thing.
Carlo December 15th, 2010 at 11:24 am
# Chip December 15th, 2010 at 10:54 am
Let’s forget the fact that King Felix isn’t and won’t be available for a second.
From the Yankees the Seattle GM wanted: Montero, Nunez, Warren and Nova for half a season of Cliff Lee.
What do you think he’s going to want for one of the best young pitchers in the game signed to a reasonable long term contract?
—————————————————–
FYI – you can add to the uphill battle it will be to get Felix the following: Heyman reporting that the yankees are believed to be on Felix’s no trade list.
————————
Well yeah – and the fact that if the Mariners did put him on the market (which they won’t) I can name about a dozen teams that will be in the mix for him.
Mell-
now you’re talkin’
ICHIRO
He’s an instant upgrade in LF.
Who do the Mariners like on the Yankees?
I dunno for sure but I bet Cashman has a clear idea of their targets based on extensive negotiations with the Yankees for Cliff Lee.
108 stitches December 15th, 2010 at 11:32 am
Yet another name to use about Zambrano is Lou Piniella who is the nearest thing to family with the Steinbrenners. Who better than Lou and Rothschild ? Certainly not W.B Mason.
———————–
That’ll be fun. Pick up Zambrano and then he and Lou can have a brawl on old timer’s day.
Again, if Rothschild tells Cashman that Zambrano would be a good fit and that he should look into it, I’m sure Cashman will – I’m pretty sure that’s why Mark Prior is a Yankee now.
I just don’t think it’s likely.
SI_JonHeyman #dodgers get matt guerrier on 3 yr deal. good job by my former paper newsday breaking the story.
Sad day for Alex.
If the Yankees get Zambrano (which I would like, at the right price) they should hire a shrink to accompany Rothschild to the mound during every visit.
We are not getting King Felix.
Wake up from your naps people.
Bret The Hitman December 15th, 2010 at 11:32 am
ICHIRO
He’s an instant upgrade in LF.
Who do the Mariners like on the Yankees?
I dunno for sure but I bet Cashman has a clear idea of their targets based on extensive negotiations with the Yankees for Cliff Lee.
————————
Why are the Mariners trading Ichiro?
A huge portion of their fan base is Japanese – they are broadcast regularly in Japan – and Ichiro is the reason why. It wouldn’t be a good baseball move and it wouldn’t be a good business move – so what’s the point?
SI_JonHeyman “i have no interest in trading felix,” #mariners gm jack zduriencik just texted. cant blame him a bit.
SI_JonHeyman
“i have no interest in trading felix,” #mariners gm jack zduriencik just texted. cant blame him a bit.
2 minutes ago via web
The only thing Zambrano should be fitted for is a straight jacket.
I don’t see the Cubs trading Zambrano at this point, even if the Yanks were interested. If the Cubs were willing to trade him, I think Cashman would pick up the phone.
THANK GOD he at least said it…now we can stop with these off the wall trades lol
•So which starters might the Yankees pursue? In a separate piece, Sherman says the Yankees don’t like Brandon Webb all that much. However, they will consider pursuing a veteran with “good stuff but questionable health.”
If you look up “good stuff but questionable health” in the dictionary you will find two pictures of available pitchers: Rich Harden and Jake Peavy and I would go after them both.
Angelo Silecchio December 15th, 2010 at 11:38 am
THANK GOD he at least said it?now we can stop with these off the wall trades lol
******************************
Trust me, they won’t stop.
The yankees have no interest in dealing with Jerk Z. # just texted.
“FYI – you can add to the uphill battle it will be to get Felix the following: Heyman reporting that the yankees are believed to be on Felix’s no trade list”
Think that’s just strategery, Chip. Makes sense to put the team or teams who can afford your big new contract on a no-trade list. Gives him leverage to get a little extra something to waive the NTC.
If Hernandez was put on the market no doubt there would be a ton of teams in on him. But a ton of teams that would also sign him for a big extensions to his current deal if they can block him, willing to give up quite a few prospects as well as taking a bad contract or two off their hands?????? The list dwindles down. The likelihood that he would be moved to the Angels or in the division is less likely. The Phillies wouldn’t be in on him. The Red Sox could try but have less prospects to offer and probably wouldnt’ want to add a bad contract to the books after money was spent. They would be in though to drive the price up. So I think the field narrows quite a bit.
I mean Halladay was traded. Haren. Santana. There have been top of the rotation guys traded quite a bit recently and have any teams acquired a massive haul in the end???
That is why I think he will get moved, but maybe not soon. Definitely before the final year of his contract though.
And if your whole franchise is based on the potential move, do you wait years to do it and risk a Prior type injury in the meantime or cash in big time while the irons are hot?
I mean the Diamondbacks at least listened on Upton even if they didn’t move him.
CARLOS ZAMBRANO
If the Cubs covet Joba Chamberlain and view him as a potential starter, I think they would move Zambrano for package centered on Joba.
They’re looking to trade for Matt Garza. He’d replace Zambrano in the rotation and keep them competitive.
Andrew Cashner is ready for the rotation as well.
Well . .I guess we can cross King Felix off our Christmas list
Chip, do you know what the actual value to the mariners is regarding japan? or are you just assuming it is big?
Is the LOHUD BLOG comment section one of Heyman’s sources?
No Trade Caluses are like signing bonuses, it’s a chip and leverage for the player to get paid out if moved. Nothing to do with preferences not to join a specific club anymore or not wanting to be traded from a team they are on for stability.
LGY December 15th, 2010 at 10:21 am
randy,
Mark this post.
Granderson will have a higher OPS than Crawford in 2011.
///Gee whiz, hardly bold. Granderson has a higher career OPS+ than Crawford as it is,and Granderson has greater power and as a lefthanded batter is now playing his home games in Yankee Stadium.LOL.some prediction.
it would be surprising if it DIDN’T turn out that way.
Love the idea of Zambrano coming here.
It could actually work out really well. With that salary, there’s no way the Cubs could demand top prospects in return. 2 keys here: The Yankees take on his entire salary and they do NOT trade Burnett back to the Cubs.
I just checked on Cot’s. Big Z is due about 18 million for the next 2 years. In 2013 he has a vesting option which only kicks in if he finishes in the top 2 in Cy Young voting for 2011 or the top 4 in Cy young voting in 2012.
So basically if that option vests he’s been awesome and the team he plays for would gladly pay it.
So let’s review here:
1) He’s signed for 2 more years at 18 million.
He’s 3 years younger than Cliff Lee and would be under contract for 4 LESS years at a cheaper price.
2) He’s under 30 years old.
3) He’s never had an ERA over 4.
4) He ended 2010 on a torrid hot streak.
5) He only wants to win
6) He could easily handle the spotlight of NY and probably thrive under it.
7) He has no injury history
This sets up the rotation perfectly for the future. If Pettitte comes back for one more year your rotation is now CC, Hughes, Pettitte, Zambrano, Burnett.
Next year Pettitte will be gone and you’ll still have Hughes and CC, Burnett for only 2 more years, Zambrano for one more year, and that leaves one open spot for one of the killer B’s or a trade or FA signing.
Yeah Zambrano isn’t Cliff Lee. But the huge difference in payroll flexibility and Zambrano’s unlimited upside make this a fascinating idea, both for this year and the future.
Bret The Hitman December 15th, 2010 at 11:40 am
CARLOS ZAMBRANO
If the Cubs covet Joba Chamberlain and view him as a potential starter, I think they would move Zambrano for package centered on Joba.
They’re looking to trade for Matt Garza. He’d replace Zambrano in the rotation and keep them competitive.
Andrew Cashner is ready for the rotation as well.
————————-
Cubs get: Joba Chamberlain, Ivan Nova and Brett Gardner
Yankees get: Carlos Zambrano, Sean Marshall and Marlon Byrd
I would probably have to do it if I was Cashman.
# Erin December 15th, 2010 at 11:39 am
Angelo Silecchio December 15th, 2010 at 11:38 am
THANK GOD he at least said it?now we can stop with these off the wall trades lol
******************************
Trust me, they won’t stop.
————————–
You are most likely right, haha. Maybe we can trade an autographed Don Mattingly 8×11 for him!
Cashman had a terrible winter last year, and this winter isn’t looking much better. He’s busy holding press conferences left and right, repelling down tall buildings, and calling everyone “dude”, while professional GMs such as Theo Epstein, with a smaller budget and a supposedly less deep farm system, are rebuliding their teams.
///THE RED SOX are more in need of rebuilding than the yankees,for one thing.they spent big on crawford,who is a dangerous player despite all the trashing of the guy going on here.but your boy theo has a rotation problem and a bullpen problem that need solving,but he has nothing left in the cupboard to really upgrade when it comes to his SP.so you might want to withhold the congratulations.
& reports of the demise of the yankee rotation have been unduly exaggerated.I’ll worry about that if AP stays home,& it has yet to come to pass.
Wave Your Hat December 15th, 2010 at 11:38 am
I don’t see the Cubs trading Zambrano at this point, even if the Yanks were interested. If the Cubs were willing to trade him, I think Cashman would pick up the phone.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How do we know Cashman hasn’t picked up the phone ? Nobody on this board is privvy to what Cashman does. That’s been proven too many times.
Chip,
The only way I give them Joba is if they’re paying a large portion of Zambrano’s salary. The more they pay the more I’d give up in talent
JON HEYMAN
If you’re browsing this board just want to tip my cap to you for scooping ESPN on Cliff Lee’s mystery team and for taking the high ground by not stooping to their level when they were taking digs at you for that. Also classy move to credit Ken Rosenthal with identifying the Phillies as that team.
Sherman’s notion of Swisher for Oswalt is sorta interesting assuming the Yankees could make a trade for someone that’s an upgrade or at least comparable to Swisher……it would help the Phillies lineup and allow them to trim a bit of payroll, but you’d have to have something already in the works to replace Swisher to make it worthwhile.
You know what just got crazy about the rest of the winter? We have no one topic to discuss (ie: Jeter, Lee).
Howe Farr December 15th, 2010 at 11:42 am
Chip, do you know what the actual value to the mariners is regarding japan? or are you just assuming it is big?
——————
I know they’re owned in part by one of the owners of Nintendo and that they are shown regularly in Japan. I also know that the Seattle market is, by and large, very Japanese-American.
“How do we know Cashman hasn’t picked up the phone ? Nobody on this board is privvy to what Cashman does. That’s been proven too many times.”
What?
“Gee whiz, hardly bold. Granderson has a higher career OPS+ than Crawford as it is,and Granderson has greater power and as a lefthanded batter is now playing his home games in Yankee Stadium.LOL.some prediction.”
In fairness, Crawford has had a higher OPS than Granderson in both of the last two seasons. So LGY’s prediction is going a little more against the grain than you’re giving him credit for.
Chip,
For the record, all the tv deals and merchandise that Ichiro sells in Japan is split by 30 teams.
My offer for Carlos Zambrano:
“You get no prospects of note in return, how much of his salary do you plan to eat”……then the yankees can decide if they want him. Zambrano is not a great pitcher but carries a price tag that indicates he is. Cubs should get nothing in return other than some salary relief.
That’s unrealistic Carlo.
You have to give up something. The guy is still a very good pitcher.
Just because he makes a lot of money doesn’t mean the Cubs are going to give him away.
That’s not the way things work.
“Gee whiz, hardly bold. Granderson has a higher career OPS+ than Crawford as it is,and Granderson has greater power and as a lefthanded batter is now playing his home games in Yankee Stadium.LOL.some prediction.
it would be surprising if it DIDN’T turn out that way.”
————————-
Then why didn’t it turn out that way last year when Granderson was in YS and Crawford out OPS’d him by 59 points??? And add to that now Crawford is moving to a hitter’s park.
If we are going to look at Crawford by his career statistics as a representation of the player that he will be in 2011, then the Red Sox signing him was insanely dumb because of his injuries in 2007 and early career struggles when he was brought up to the bigs so young.
Crawford has out OPS’d Granderson by 95 points over the last 2 years.
It would be a very, very nice turn of events for 2011 if Granderson bounces back to the level Crawford has played at the last 2 seasons.
I know they’re owned in part by one of the owners of Nintendo and that they are shown regularly in Japan. I also know that the Seattle market is, by and large, very Japanese-American.
–
On the other hand, Japanese culture is very ‘group/brand’ oriented. If these people are fans of the Mariners, they may continue to be fans of the Mariners even without Ichiro.
The Sox won’t trade Peavy because they view him as the future key to their rotation, and the Yanks won’t trade for him because of the combination of the unusual surgery and the high salary.
Zambrano would make sense for the Yanks, because he has enormous ability, but I can’t see the Ricketts doing a salary deal on him at this point.
The Mariners are as likely to trade Ichiro as the Yanks are to trade Jeter.
And if he pitches well, the fans will LOVE his fire.
He’ll instantly become a fan favorite. Write it down.
Zambrano’s average fastball velocity last year declined to 90.2. I fear another Vazquez diminished pitcher. Is that a legitimate concern?
MATT GARZA
I can see the Cubs trading Carlos Marmol to the Rays who are well-stocked in the rotation but completely depleted in the bullpen.
Therefore, the Cubs interest in Joba grows more intense.
They may view him as a potential starter but at the very least project him to be able to close games in the NL.
Essentially the Cubs would be trading Zambrano + Marmol for Garza + Joba.
I think All-Consuming Rage is a better bet to be focused into something positive than being scared of the bright lights and attention one would find in a room containing more than 3 people.
///you must be watching too many Clint Eastwood movies.Rage is destabilizing,gets you uncentered,all important in sports.you’re a slave to the rage,it HAS you.might work for a short reliever but a SP,don’t think so.
Why would the Yankees ever give up anyone of note for Zambrano and to pay his salary on top of it?
Positives : Still under 30 years old. Worked with Rothchild. Has been a top of the rotation pitcher. May come for a limited amount of talent lost.
Negatives: Injuries piling up after 200+ inning season early in his career. Could it be too many innings when he was younger and now skills going down hill? He was pitching in the NL with a high WHIP, what happens against AL lineups and against patient teams like the Sox? He’s a hot head and blows up in the clubhouse. Does he have the same stuff he used to. The potential cost of making a trade – giving up any prospects of note. Declining strikeout totals. And hate to bring it up, but does his big years coincide with the steroid error or PEDs? $17.85 due this year, $18 million in 2012. $19.25 vesting option (could be player option) – not sure of the details
Then why didn’t it turn out that way last year when Granderson was in YS and Crawford out OPS’d him by 59 points??? And add to that now Crawford is moving to a hitter’s park.
///Granderson wasn’t even healthy last year,missed time and was adjusting to a new BP and implementing new swing mechanics.He’ll probably put up 30 dingers this year.Your “prediction” is comical.
///you must be watching too many Clint Eastwood movies.Rage is destabilizing,gets you uncentered,all important in sports.you’re a slave to the rage,it HAS you.might work for a short reliever but a SP,don’t think so.
–
Tell that to Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens!
So because the revenue for merchandise is split between 30 teams the Mariners should completely alienate their fanbase and trade a player they werent even considering trading in the first place? Or did I miss something?
Harden back to the A’s. Would have liked to have seen him picked up potentially as a nice arm out of the pen. More likely to get something out of him than they will from Prior.
You guys giving up actual major league talent for Zambrano are seriously on crack.
He’s like Oliver Perez at this point; If you want him and are willing to take on some of the salary, then he’s yours.
I can’t believe I saw a trade idea with Swisher in it for Zambrano and Fukodome who they couldn’t give away if they tried.
Some of you have some serious OCD when it comes to repeating ridiculous trade rumors over and over again.
As for Felix Hernandez and Ichiro, THEY ARE NOT COMING HERE. THEY ARE NOT AVAILABLE. Besides, the Yankees got screwed by the M’s GM last July. You think all of a sudden they are going to play nice and deal fairly? If I was the Yankees I would hang up every time Jack Z called until he’s eventually fired next year.
# miggs December 15th, 2010 at 11:52 am
That’s unrealistic Carlo.
You have to give up something. The guy is still a very good pitcher.
Just because he makes a lot of money doesn’t mean the Cubs are going to give him away.
That’s not the way things work.
——————————————-
he has $36 million coming to him over the next two seasons. He has had repeated problems in the clubhouse and the Cubs biggest problem in 2010 was offense, not pitching. Zambrano makes $5 mm more than Dempster, who is their 2nd highest paid pitcher at $13 mm. The other side of the issue is that it is unlikely that management believes the current team can win in the next two years. The finished 5th this past season in the NL Central and were 16 games behind Cincy and 11 games behind St Louis. Those arent deficits that just vanish in a year when no tangible changes have been made (Carlos Pena is not that kind of difference maker).
Freeing up funds, removing a headache from the clubhouse, and preparing for the future is why I do not believe giving players and eating salary is what it takes to get Zambrano.
NYBD Colin Coward on Burnett divorce The stories are ugly. Wife was vindictive and spiteful. Think of worst divorce you’ve heard and double it
/Granderson wasn’t even healthy last year,missed time and was adjusting to a new BP and implementing new swing mechanics.He’ll probably put up 30 dingers this year.Your “prediction” is comical.
******
Really?
Granderson pulled his groin and missed like a month. YS is perfect for his swing so I don’t know what adjusting your talking about. He didn’t “implement new swing mechanics until he sucked it up for most of the season.
What are the made up excuses for 2009 when he DID hit 30 dingers and still finished with a sub 800 OPS??
Go back to criticizing me for the way I spoke about Jeter during the negotiations. You’re outmatched here Prufock
Just missed this:
http://beta.ca.news.yahoo.com/.....11339.html
Thinking back over the last week +, the enthusiasm for getting Cliff Lee was a mixed bag among Yankee fans and nowhere near what it was for wanting C.C. or Teixeira 2 years ago.
Personally, I saw Lee as a high priced short term fix with exceptional postseason numbers AGAINST the Yankees or something near addition by subtraction and a pitcher on the verge of being on the backside of his career.
Now that the dust has settled, it’s more sensible that he went to Philly.
A feeling can be had now that the Yankees can be flexible with roster fixing than what they might have been.
do you have a link pat ?
Question, in regards to acquiring a SP. Let’s say the White Sox match up. Who would you prefer: Peavey, Buehrle, or Floyd for our rotation?
Phranchise December 15th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Harden back to the A’s. Would have liked to have seen him picked up potentially as a nice arm out of the pen. More likely to get something out of him than they will from Prior.
———–
That is a shame. It sounds like they’re going to try to turn him into their own version of Kerry Wood.
pat December 15th, 2010 at 12:06 pm
NYBD Colin Coward on Burnett divorce The stories are ugly. Wife was vindictive and spiteful. Think of worst divorce you?ve heard and double it
************************
pat, I just heard about that a little while ago. Poor AJ.
It does explain a lot about the season he had.
Whoa, AJ was going through a divorce last year? That would explain some things…
Whoa, AJ was going through a divorce last year? That would explain some things?
—
and the black eye
So if some of you are suggesting trading Joba for Zambrano, how about we trade Burnett for any teams worst prospect as long as they fully take on Burnett’s salary.
No thanks on Zambrano and his 19 million bucks. That money can be used much more predictably elsewhere.
I get the reasoning behind reporting he was going through a divorce.. but why is this necessary? “Wife was vindictive and spiteful.”?
I didn’t hear about the AJ divorce. Interesting. Can also explain his head not being right or focused.
I get the reasoning behind reporting he was going through a divorce.. but why is this necessary? “Wife was vindictive and spiteful.”?
–
It is a cautionary tale, don’t marry strippers
AndrewMarchand
Scout: I would start Martin over Montero – Yankees Blog – ESPN New York http://es.pn/g9VvTX
less than 5 seconds ago via TweetMeme
An ugly divorce could explain some of AJs 2010. He’s never been consistent but he’s never been anywhere near as bad as he was last year……his playoff performance was encouraging to me.
It is a cautionary tale, don?t marry strippers
LOL !!!!
Say you got Zambrano (regardless of what it takes) say in a salary dump. At $17-18 a year.
Where would you slot him into this group?
CC, Andy, Hughes and AJ
Maybe fourth after AJ’s year last year.
Would you ever depend on him in a big game?
How would he look against a left handed AL Red Sox lineup with his WHIP?
Would not look pretty. You have to think there are better options than him unless it was a straightforward salary dump where the Yankees pick him up at $15 a year.
if you get Z, AJ is gone.
# Bret The Hitman December 15th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
AndrewMarchand
Scout: I would start Martin over Montero – Yankees Blog – ESPN New York http://es.pn/g9VvTX
less than 5 seconds ago via TweetMeme
————————————
should be amended to say “rival scout says he would start martin over montero……but, what he is really doing is just trying to find another way to sht on a yankee prospect. “
All strippers aren’t vindictive. Some are actually quite plesant. No reason to give strippers a bad name.. just say the guy got divorced and thats that. Why the commentary on a personal matter? So we all know 2010 wasn’t AJ’s fault?
This winter the Cubs really needed a power bat. Adam Dunn was a great fit for them.
They couldn’t come close to signing him due to money.
Last winter the team was in need of significant retooling because of the tremendously disappointing season they had in 2009.
They made no high impact moves.
The Cubs are littered with bad contracts that are suffocating them.
Zambrano’s is way at the top. He’s considered a huge millstone around the neck of the entire organization. 10 games at the end of last season don’t change his track record.
They’ve tried to trade him desperately and found no takers all last season.
Zambrano has minimal trade value right now. He’s a pure salary dumb. The Cubs are not going to get back any significant talent for him – even if they pick up money. They would have to pick up 75% of his remaining deal to even get half way decent prospects back.
People are underestimating what a disaster he has been for them and how badly they want to get rid of him. They are hamstrung by bad deals and the owner is in financial trouble.
# mick December 15th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
if you get Z, AJ is gone.
———————————-
how? why?
JESUS MONTERO, AUSTIN ROMINE, FRANCISCO CERVELLI, GARY SANCHEZ, JR MURPHY
Which one gets traded and why?
Harden $1.5 million plus incentives?? And he is set up for a bullpen spot. Jeez, I am even more disappointed they didn’t gamble on him. A few years ago he was one of the top young pitching prospects in the game and younger. They blew more on gambling on Randy Winn last year?
December 15th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
///you must be watching too many Clint Eastwood movies.Rage is destabilizing,gets you uncentered,all important in sports.you’re a slave to the rage,it HAS you.might work for a short reliever but a SP,don’t think so.
–
Tell that to Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens!
———————————–
or Bob Gibson.
BRET THE HITMAN
Why are you yelling dude?
Cubs GM Jim Hendry says that Carlos Zambrano will remain with the club next season, writes Carrie Muskat of MLB.com. Even though the hurler said earlier this year that he would waive his no-trade clause, Hendry says that he never anticipated dealing him.
“I’ve never assumed that he really wanted to go,” the GM said Sunday. “He earned the contract that he got. I’ve always assumed that he will be pitching for the Cubs. I’m glad he’s righted the ship and had a really good end.”
MLB TradeRumors from earlier this winter.
Romine would be first to go. Thought highly enough about his defense and offense to be a MLB catcher with some ability at the plate. He has the most value. No matter how good a guy looks in A or below, even AA for that matter, they have limited trade value. How many players have you seen cuise up until AA and AAA and just disappeared? Montero holds the most trade value obviously, but when they discuss his natural talent with the bat it reminds me of the way they talked about M Cabrera. If he is anywhere close to that, he is a once every ten years type of find. Even if he can’t catch, they will eventually need a bat to fill in the middle of that lineup.
If the Cubs would trade Zambrano for a PTBNL and pick up half his remaining salary then maybe he’s worth a flyer….but even then that’s a stretch for me.
Well . I guess we can cross Carlos Zambranos name off our Christmas list !.. NEXT !
What is a GM really going to say, we want to move this guy ASAP? If he could have rid himself of Zambrano’s deal and had the cash to make a run at Lee I think he would have taken that for sure.
Chip – One good way to tell how truthful that story is: ?He earned the contract that he got.” Does that sound about right to you? I’m not sure it does lol. The Cubs would move Zambrano in a heartbeat. They are going nowhere next season and need to get rid of those contracts. Not saying that means Zambrano gets fitted for pinstripes, but I just can’t take anything in that article seriously after reading that quote.
Combine that quote from Hendry with the fact that Zambrano got along well with the Cubs’ new manager and that he had a tremendous finish to the season ( 7-0 with a 1.46 ERA in 10 post-All Star break starts) and I don’t see them trading him, much less giving him away as a salary dump for nothing of consequence in return.
Shame-I get what you’re saying. But it sounds like this divorce was/is really nasty. I took the comment about his wife (or I guess his ex) as emphasis that AJ was going through a lot over the past year. Obviously, it doesn’t excuse the season he had, but it does explain an awful lot. Just my two cents.
AUSTIN ROMINE (from ESPN)
“The scout also thinks Montero could be a first baseman, which why the Yankees may ultimately trade him. The Yankees say that Montero has improved defensively, but that could be designed to try to hike his trade value.
The scout projected Montero to be a .265 hitter with 25 homers one day. We’ll see.
The scout thinks Austin Romineis the Yankees’ future catcher because of his better defense.”
Only thing about trading Romine now is that his value is probably down a tick after his so so 2010. Obviously if a team wants him for a player you want then you do it but if he started off well in 2011 and improved defensively then his value could increase again….of course if he struggled it could go down as well.
Hopefully, Andy Pettitte will soon decide to come back for one more year so all this nonsense about trading 1/2 the farm system, along with Phil Hughes, for King Felix or bringing in a nut job like Carlos Zambrano can stop.
With Pettitte back, the Yankees have their rotation from last year restored … the 5th starter spot should always be considered a fluid situation … either open competition in ST or a low level addition via trade or FA signing.
If there is a big fish pitcher to be had, then lets go after him in June/July next year when teams who are planning on contending in December flame out and become sellers in order to cut payroll. Then a team like the Yankees can deal from a position of strength and make a better deal.
How about this scenario, the Tigers are built now to make a run in the AL Central (just signed V-Mart). What if they fall flat on their face again next year like they did in 2010 and they make Justin Verlander available for the right price in July? How good would he look nestled neatly between CC, Andy, Hughes, and AJ?
Cervelli, Romine
1 because he has major league experience but isn’t useful enough for the Yankees to carry around for 5 more years until free agency, but also not good enough to end up with a large enough arbitration win to mean non-tendering
2 because he is the 2nd closest to the majors with a decent rep but not enough of a sure thing for the Yankees to consider him a viable major league starter right now
I agree with CB here, as I was reading these posts. Zambrano isn’t worth trading anything for, certainly not Joba. Would taking him off their hands be a bad idea? Maybe not entirely, but trading something of value for him? No way.
Chamberlain has a brighter future in the league than Zambrano, let’s just say. In fact, could that be a new option? Cashman said they decided, but you never know. He may not be a light out starter or set up man, but could he be serviceable? Could he be better than most other starters on FA? Since there’s the talk of adding more bullpen arms, maybe we’d have the flexibility to pull this off.
And as others have said, it’s not impossible than AJ turns it around. His problem has been injuries in the past, not just being an awful pitcher. Could be just a dramatic blip in the career stats when all is said and done.
.265….who is this scout, curt schilling?
Shame Spencer December 15th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
Chip – One good way to tell how truthful that story is: ?He earned the contract that he got.” Does that sound about right to you? I’m not sure it does lol. The Cubs would move Zambrano in a heartbeat. They are going nowhere next season and need to get rid of those contracts. Not saying that means Zambrano gets fitted for pinstripes, but I just can’t take anything in that article seriously after reading that quote.
———————-
What makes you think they’re not going anywhere?
They added Carlos Pena at 1b
Have a good 3b and bullpen and if he pitches like he did at the end of last season Zambrano and Dempster are a pretty good top two for the rotation
are hoping for big things from Starlin Castro and a rebound from Geovonny Soto
No one in the NL Central really strikes me as a “cream of the crop” team right now so why can’t the Cubbies compete?
I’m really glad some of you geniuses aren’t GM’s. I’m still trying to wrap my head around the deal with Swisher and Joba for Zambrano and Fukodome. Put down the coffee and go outside for a walk.
As for Lee, I think my feeling about him (and the feeling of others in the fanbase) was he was a necessary evil for the next couple of years. He was a mercenary for us. He never felt like a Yankee to me because he never was a Yankee and after the spanking the Rangers gave us in the ALCS he felt even less of a Yankee to me to be honest.
Losing out on him is a big setback. Adding another top lefty to our rotation was what the doctor ordered.
That said, he’s in Philly and we need the front office to build a solid team.
Thinking the Mariners are dying to trade their top two franchise players to us right this moment is just idiotic. They are not a small market team. They have money. They just stink and their GM sold them a defense first philosophy that blew up in their faces with the utter lack of offense. My point is, they need stars there to get the fans to come to the ballpark and they are not trading a Hall of Famer in Ichiro and a Cy Young winner in Felix to the Yankees because the Yankees lost out on Lee and they feel badly for them.
The Cubs tried to trade Zambrano the entire second half of last season. They found no takers willing to trade for him unless they essentially ate all of this contract.
The Cubs didn’t want to do that for obvious reasons just as the Mets didn’t want to move Perez.
So rather than trade him they’ve decided to try to rebuild his trade value.
But any team that was willing to pay for Zambrano or even a large chunk of the enormous money he is owed could have him as a pure salary dump. No significant talent would be required.
” it doesn?t excuse the season he had, but it does explain an awful lot. Just my two cents.”
Would also explain Cashman’s comment in an interview with Francesa about AJ not having the same issues going forward that he had in 2010. Francesa picked p on it and followed up but Cashman brushed it off.
Bret The Hitman December 15th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
AUSTIN ROMINE (from ESPN)
“The scout also thinks Montero could be a first baseman, which why the Yankees may ultimately trade him. The Yankees say that Montero has improved defensively, but that could be designed to try to hike his trade value.
The scout projected Montero to be a .265 hitter with 25 homers one day. We’ll see.
The scout thinks Austin Romineis the Yankees’ future catcher because of his better defense.”
——————–
Even if the “scout” is right and Montero is a 1b – why does that mean the Yankees would trade him? He’ll be all of 26 when Tex’s contract is up – might be nice to have a 26-year old masher at 1b.
Signing Martin to a 1 year 4mil deal is a good move. He is an upgrade over Cervelli.
If Martin is healthy, he’ll likely be the opening day catcher with Cervelli the backup.
Montero will be starting in AAA if he’s not part of a trade for a #1 type starter.
The Yankees ar not going to trade him for anything lees than a Cy Young type pitcher.
I belive Andy will come back and they give the young guys a shot at the #5.
Cervelli will get traded in season if Montero has makes it to the bigs.
Brett-
Using all caps really makes it seem like you are yelling at the entire blog.
G. Love December 15th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
I’m really glad some of you geniuses aren’t GM’s. I’m still trying to wrap my head around the deal with Swisher and Joba for Zambrano and Fukodome. Put down the coffee and go outside for a walk
——————-
If you’re refering to me – I said that the Cubs would probably want Joba and Swisher and expect the Yankees to take back Fukudome’s contract in the deal – not that I would do it.
I would consider doing it if Byrd was coming back instead of Fukudome – but that’s another matter entirely.
I want to know if Jesus Montero broke that scout’s car window with a HR laser because who the hell projects that Montero ‘might hit .265 with 25 HRs some day, maybe.’ He is a rocking .300 hitter in the minors with great power and no contact problems.
CB December 15th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
So rather than trade him they’ve decided to try to rebuild his trade value.
—————————
I would say posting a sub 2 ERA over the second half of the season rebuilt his trade value for them.
My point is that the Cubs aren’t going to give him away and I don’t see the sense in giving away good prospects for a 29-year old headcase when you can give away slightly better prospects for a 27-year old with Social Anxiety Disorder who on his worst day has more potential and is a better guy to be around than Zambrano is on his best days.
Cliff Lee – traded by Indians to Phillies with Francisco for Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald, Lou Marson and Jason Knapp
Halladay – Drabek, Michael Taylor and Travis D’Arnaud
Santana – Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber, Guerra and Kevin Mulvey
Haren – Carlos Gonzales, Brett Anderson, Aaron Cunnighan, Greg Smith, Dana Eveland and Chris Carter
CC – Matt LaPorta, Michael Brantley, Zach Jackson and Rob Bryson
Amazing some of these trades and what people ended up with. The Haren deal is just loaded, too bad the A’s traded Gonzales away though. Guess you’d have to say the Twins was the worst.
I hope AJ bounces back. I always respected how he faced the media honestly even at the lowest points of his season. And to now know he did it while lots of crap was happening at home is commendable.
Chip – the quote I’m focused on there is that the guy is saying that Zambrano lived up to and earned his contract. Its not true. So even if the Cubs were going to compete next season in a weak division, the guy is laying it on pretty thick when it comes to Zambrano. If you think they’ll be contenders, thats fine, I don’t really know them well enough. But using that article to illustrate he isn’t being shopped doesn’t seem realistic to me.
Erin – Yes, I get that.. but again, I would rather see “AJ went through a messy divorce. And when I say messy I mean like ‘Mets starting rotation’ messy.” That woulda sufficed. But you start playing the blame game publically and you never know what starts flowing outta the wood work..
CB,
OK!
cb
ok
CB-
My guess is that the ship has sailed on Zambrano for a while, the Cubs now can’t replace him and it would look bad to the fans. Continuing the metaphor, the ship may come back to dock in mid-season at which point maybe the Cubs deal him to unload salary.
Jesus Montero and the Yankees catching situation:
“The Yankees will soon make it official that they have signed Russell Martin to catch. GM Brian Cashman has said that Jesus Montero, Austin Romine and Francisco Cervelli will fight it out in the spring unless he could find an upgrade.
He may have done that so it will be interesting to see what Cashman says after Martin becomes official.
A scout who has watched Montero play said he thinks Martin will be the starter.
“I’d rather have Russell Martin for next year,” the scout said.
This scout had the usual criticism of Montero’s game. He is not good enough defensively. He said he had concerns about Montero’s defensive mechanics and that is why he thinks Montero could be at Triple-A. Ultimately, the scout thought that if Montero remained a Yankee he eventually could be a couple of days a week catcher and a DH.
The scout also thinks Montero could be a first baseman, which why the Yankees may ultimately trade him. The Yankees say that Montero has improved defensively, but that could be designed to try to hike his trade value.
The scout projected Montero to be a .265 hitter with 25 homers one day. We’ll see.
The scout thinks Austin Romineis the Yankees’ future catcher because of his better defense.
Martin only played 97 games last year because of a hip injury.”
Patrick -
I think you’re wrong on the Martin/Cervelli/Montero dynamic.
I think the only job Martin takes is Cervelli’s – the Yankees will use him the way they used Girardi when Posada broke into the majors – he’ll catch the majority of games but Montero will still play a lot. Cervelli will back up Romine in AAA and Posada will strictly DH.
I’m not sure how signing Martin devalues Montero here. Cervelli is more likely to get the boot because he presents the least upside. He is what he is at this point.
Martin may be just as much of an unknown as Montero. I think the organization still views Montero as the future every day catcher and they will try to maximize that possibility every way they can. A young power catcher? Those don’t grow on trees.
Also Cashman isn’t about to sell him for the sake of selling him. A trade would have to happen with a big time starter. He got a team to agree to trading Montero for Lee. That’s how valuable he is on the market to Cashman and he’s not about to lower that value.
and is a better guy to be around than Zambrano is on his best days.
–
Actually most stories paint Greinke as a loner douche. Zambrano is probably a very, outgoing and friendly flamboyant type as long as everyone is trying their best and the team is winning.
Anybody else see that the vesting option for Lee’s 6th year is for 27.5 million bucks! Wonder what causes it to vest…..that would make the deal a 6/147.5 contract……almost 25 million per…..
You people have the Yankees trading away the farm. Right now they are shopping in the bargain basement. Mark Prior….Russell Martin….Get serious. They have to worry that CC doesn’t want to renegotiate this season. He still has an opt out at the end of the year. Always remember Cliff Lee wanted to play for the Yankees. I could see him leaving NY if this team slips this year.
“I would say posting a sub 2 ERA over the second half of the season rebuilt his trade value for them.”
Not for a player that erratic. No way. Not even close. He’s seen as a ticking time bomb who could go off at any minute. 10 games is meaningless over the course of his behavior for his entire career. He goes off completely unpredictably. You know it’ll happen. You just don’t know when.
And your point is very straight forward and not difficult to understand. I don’t agree with it and don’t see it being even remotely accurate.
In a world where cost contained players or players signed to reasonable contracts are gold, Zambrano effectively has minimal trade value.
He is one of the highest paid pitchers in the game. No one wants that contract. Not even the Cubs.
Chip, I was following you until you said that Greinke would fetch only slightly more than Zambrano, at which point I realized you must be posting from Europe where happy hour has already started.
A’s got Harden for $1.5 million plus incentives? Yanks should’ve jumped on that. That’s not a bad risk to take.
Jerkface December 15th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
and is a better guy to be around than Zambrano is on his best days.
–
Actually most stories paint Greinke as a loner douche. Zambrano is probably a very, outgoing and friendly flamboyant type as long as everyone is trying their best and the team is winning.
———————-
I have never seen video of Greinke fighting, wrestling, or screaming at his teammates…I have seen a ton of it from Zambrano.
Chip,
That’s a horrible trade. A horrible one. Swisher is one of the most productive OF’ers in the league right now.
Trading him for reclamation projects and salary dumps is about the dumbest thing you’ve ever said on here.
You’re much smarter than that.
Wave Your Hat December 15th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Chip, I was following you until you said that Greinke would fetch only slightly more than Zambrano, at which point I realized you must be posting from Europe where happy hour has already started.
————————-
Wave –
Slightly may have been an understatement – though I think people are completely off on what it would actually take to get Zambrano.
G. Love December 15th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
Chip,
That’s a horrible trade. A horrible one. Swisher is one of the most productive OF’ers in the league right now.
Trading him for reclamation projects and salary dumps is about the dumbest thing you’ve ever said on here.
You’re much smarter than that.
———————————
Carlos Zambrano doesn’t strike me as a reclamation project or a salary dump…I guess that’s the difference.
He is the number one pitcher on a team that is hoping to contend for a playoff spot. They ain’t giving him away because Brian bats his eyes and asks politely.
SI_JonHeyman martin passed his physical and deal for $4 mil, 1 year is complete with #yankees. espn had figure 1st
“Anybody else see that the vesting option for Lee’s 6th year is for 27.5 million bucks! ”
I think it’s innings pitched in the prior year. I think that’s it (200 IP, IIRC).
In the end, the Texas and Phillies offers were comparable, just structured differently with different trade offs. The Yankee bid was right there as well. Given what it was they would have gone up to match but I think they seemed to believe Lee wasn’t interested in NY and didn’t want to have their offer shopped.
Brett The Hitman
Thanks!
brett the hitman
thanks!
Well 200 innings at his age is unlikely at that point. And if he does this thru his career then he is worth that extra bonus at the end. Ultimately though it was not guaranteed and for good reason, he probably will not achieve it.
CB,
I agree. I think the Yankees must have gotten a sense at some point that he didn’t want to come there and they weren’t blowing out other offers if he didn’t.
If it vests with 200 innings then he has a reasonable shot at that…..that would be a huge deal and Lee really wouldn’t be leaving much money on the table at all.
Go back to criticizing me for the way I spoke about Jeter during the negotiations. You’re outmatched here Prufock
///Your ambition outruns your abilities my boy.& your prediction remains laughable,just as your jollying in whether Jeter was actually playing hurt in 2010 with your “was it his wrist?his ankle?” mock questioning was as laughable as it was utterly meanspirited and endlessly enjoyable for you. the man plays hurt every year. outmatched? by YOU?whatever you say.
Cliff Lee and his 6th year option:
Blake, the 27.5 million option in the 6th year kicks in if Lee pitches 200 innings in the 5th year of the deal. Not a tall order for a crafty lefty in the NL.
6/$147.5 million + the chance to pad his stats in the NL.
I’ve been saying that Lee took the most money and grabbed the best chance to position him self for a 2nd lucrative multiyear deal on top of this one.
There was always a chance the AL East could severely damage his leverage for a 2nd big contract on top of this one.
Don’t be fooled by Lee’s sentimentality.
He’s a pure mercenary plain and simple.
His option for 2016 would vest if he reaches 200 innings in 2015 or 400 innings between 2014 and 2015. He would also have to avoid ending the 2015 season on the disabled list due to an injury to his left shoulder or elbow. With a $12.5 million on the buyout, he is guaranteed $120 million. If his option vests, he could make $135 million over the life of the contract.
Chip,
I think Cervelli makes the team to start the year because he knows the staff and they trust him.
Starting the year with 2 new catchers in Martin and Montero?
Yes, I agree Cervelli will be the odd man out at some point during the season.
Let’s hope that Martin is healthy to start the year.
It’s starting to look like Posada will only be used behind the plate in an emergency.
Question for you all; Is Martin good enough at 3b to spell Arod?
NEW THREAD —->
New Post: The best of the rest on the free agent market
The contract is also backloaded, which has less value. Obviously structured for the Phillies current payroll and where it will be.
I have never seen video of Greinke fighting, wrestling, or screaming at his teammates…I have seen a ton of it from Zambrano
–
That doesn’t mean Greinke is some how more pleasant to be around.
If I am not mistaken the Yankees gain a non-arb year with Montero if he is brought up after May or June.
On the other hand, if Montero shows decent defensive skills in spring training and pounds it to the tune of .325/.400 with a bunch of homers he’s the starter IMO.
At $4 million Martin is a win-win for us, starting or as a platoon/ backup anyway it shakes out.