The best of the rest on the free agent market
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 15, 2010 
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In the wake of the Cliff Lee signing, the crew over at MLBTradeRumors posted a poll question asking, who is the top remaining free agent? Of their seven candidates, only one or two seem to fit for the Yankees.
Adrian Beltre
The most complete player left on the market obviously doesn’t fit for the Yankees. The last thing the Yankees need is an everyday infielder. Beltre would be a defensive upgrade and a nice boost to the lineup, but he just doesn’t fit with Alex Rodriguez at third base and Jorge Posada at DH.
Vladimir Guerrero
Put up big numbers last year, but he proved in the World Series that he’s a bad idea in the outfield. Might be worse than Marcus Thames. Even on a short-term contract, it’s hard to imagine the Yankees going after this sort of DH-only kind of player.
Magglio Ordonez
Consistently productive hitter when he’s healthy, but he turns 37 in January and had season-ending ankle surgery last season. It’s a recurring theme on this list that a lot of the top available hitters are going to need significant time at DH, and that spot is pretty full for the Yankees. If the Yankees had reason to trust Ordonez to stay healthy, he might be an outfield option — with an eye on a trade — but he’s a significant risk.
Carl Pavano
For every other team in baseball, Pavano is the best available starting pitcher. For the Yankees, though, Pavano is a hard sell and the best pitcher still on their radar is the next name on this list.
Andy Pettitte
The two sides would still have to figure out a contract that works for both, but ultimately this seems to be a matter of Pettitte simply making a decision about retirement. If he wants to come back, the Yankees will gladly take him back. Cashman said yesterday that he still doesn’t know what Pettitte is going to do.
Rafael Soriano
I have no idea whether the Yankees would be willing to pay Soriano closer money, and I have no idea whether Soriano would be willing to accept an eighth-inning job, but he would certainly make the Yankees bullpen significantly better.
Jim Thome
Put up impressive numbers last season, absolutely crushes right-handed pitching and he has a terrific reputation as a clubhouse guy. But it’s been three years since Thome played the field, and the Yankees are clearly not in the market for a designated hitter.
Associated Press photos
Cliff Lee and his 6th year option:
Blake, the 27.5 million option in the 6th year kicks in if Lee pitches 200 innings in the 5th year of the deal. Not a tall order for a crafty lefty in the NL.
6/$147.5 million + the chance to pad his stats in the NL.
I’ve been saying that Lee took the most money and grabbed the best chance to position him self for a 2nd lucrative multiyear deal on top of this one.
There was always a chance the AL East could severely damage his leverage for a 2nd big contract on top of this one.
Don’t be fooled by Lee’s sentimentality.
He’s a pure mercenary plain and simple.
Bret,
It also kicks in if Lee has over 400IP in the 4th and 5th years combined.
His option for 2016 would vest if he reaches 200 innings in 2015 or 400 innings between 2014 and 2015. He would also have to avoid ending the 2015 season on the disabled list due to an injury to his left shoulder or elbow. With a $12.5 million on the buyout, he is guaranteed $120 million. If his option vests, he could make $135 million over the life of the contract.
SI_JonHeyman martin, incdientally, will be #yankees primary catcher. so montero/romine will likely be in minors or trade chips
If he wants to come back, the Yankees will gladly take him back. Cashman said yesterday that he still doesn?t know what Pettitte is going to do.
*************************
Come back Andy!!!!
The buy-out of 12.5 million is already included in the 120 million. So he’s guaranteed 120 million and if the option vests, he’ll make 135 million over the next 6 years… not 147.5
“6/$147.5 million + the chance to pad his stats in the NL”
I think it’s acutally $137.5M.
He’s guaranteed 5 years and $120M, but included in the $120M is the $12M buyout of the 6th year. If he triggers the option, he gets $27.5M, but not the $12M buyout.
Brett,
Just smart wording by his agent to make it seem like he’s leaving money on the table to win which is probably partly true…..but he’s still making a ton and is currently the highest paid pitcher per year ever.
I don’t see how you can say “He’s a pure mercenary plain and simple” when he clearly took less guaranteed money. He’s not the saint he was originally made out to be but maybe he said to himself “the money is just about equal, I’ve played in Philly I loved it there, that’s where I want to go”.
We need to understand NY never had a chance. He used us to get the best offers from teams he wanted to play for. He took Philly’s offer back to the Rangers to see if he could get them to up their offer, so ya he’s no saint, but a mercenary takes the best guaranteed deal.
Wave-
I’m not sure the ship has sailed in Chicago. Ricketts purchased Tribune largely with debt. Servicing that debt is a major issue.
If they could dump that contract they would. They’d just fill in a stop gap in the rotation like a Millwood or Bonderman. The problem for them is that they can’t dump it without eating huge money. That’s why they haven’t moved him.
My sense is that Cubs fans are pretty fed up with Zambrano and wouldn’t be too worried about him leaving.
The Cubs have so many holes and have little flexibility to fix them.
Whether the fits for the yankees of course is an entirely different story.
I’d love to see the Rangers give Pettitte a huge offer. After all, he is from Texas…
Can Santa surpass what he has already done for RedSox Nation this year?
I like Ordonez if the price is right. His bat would fit nicely. Anyone know if he can still play the field?
SI_JonHeyman ex-yankee p coach dave eiland soon will be named special ass’t to rays VP andrew friedman, said eiland’s agent burton rocks
“We need to understand NY never had a chance.”
I actually wonder if this is true or not. I sorta lean towards the thinking that for Lee to come to the Yankees we needed to really blow him away.. which it turns out (though everyone expected us to) we didn’t.
I don’t see Montero back in the minors and I certainly hope he’s not traded unless something very good is coming back.
Oops! Bad math. $135M is indeed the max on Lee’s deal. So it’s either $24M per for 5 or $22.5M per for 6.
Cliff Lee and the 6th year option.
I stand corrected.
6/135 million is AAV of 22.5 million + NL padded stats when he seeks a 2nd lucrative deal on top of this one.
A 7 year deal in the AL East could’ve been one-and-done for Cliff Lee.
In the NL, he could be looking at 6 years + 4 years on top of that.
Therein lies the difference (10 vs. 7).
Cliff Lee went for the money and comfort of the NL.
Why do blake and CB repeatedly misspell Bret the Hitman’s handle?
Lack of education ??
I wonder if SJ is hiding in the shed after all of his predictions have fallen flat. Must have been the “busy season” getting in the way.
I think there were probably a lot of factors at play with Lee’s decision. I can’t blame a pitcher for choosing the NL east over the AL east if the money is comparable….
# Shame Spencer December 15th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
“We need to understand NY never had a chance.”
I actually wonder if this is true or not. I sorta lean towards the thinking that for Lee to come to the Yankees we needed to really blow him away.. which it turns out (though everyone expected us to) we didn’t.
———————–
Ya, I should amend that….the only way the Yankees had a chance was if we made him an offer so ridiculous (and bad for us in the long term) that he literally could not turn it down…think the players union telling ARod what to do when he was trying to get to Boston.
His order was clearly Philly, Texas, and then NY. I say this because he asked for Texas to guarantee a 7th year for him to go there, and he took less from Philly. It really doesn’t matter to us though, we were third regardless.
I really hope we don’t trade Montero, unless of course someone like Felix Hernandez or Josh Johnson is made available.
melkmanisinhotlanta – The outcome does not change the probability of the predictions.
Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho! Merry Christmas! To one and to all! To the Yankees, good night!
Yes its a lack of education…..we also have failed to figure out how to use 900 different handles as you have.
Carlos Zambrano and the Cubs:
I think the Cubs can do better than Millwood or Bonderman in place of Zambrano. They could get Garza by giving the Rays Carlos Marmol in place of departed free agent Rafael Soriano.
If I am not mistaken the Yankees gain a non-arb year with Montero if he is brought up after May or June.
On the other hand, if Montero shows decent defensive skills in spring training and pounds it to the tune of .325/.400 with a bunch of homers he’s the starter IMO.
At $4 million Martin is a win-win for us, starting or as a platoon/ backup anyway it shakes out.
SI_JonHeyman ex-yankee p coach dave eiland soon will be named special ass’t to rays VP andrew friedman, said eiland’s agent burton rocks
–
Personal Bartender? Mixologist?
Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho! Merry Christmas, blake! Since it is a lack of education, why don’t we get rid of your toilet paper diploma from UNC and get you one from a real university: Boston University
Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho! Merry Christmas!
Looks like Lee took a salary of 11 million in his first year with them in the deal before it jumps up into the 20′s. Not many free agents in his position would be willing to do that.
# G. Love December 15th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Looks like Lee took a salary of 11 million in his first year with them in the deal before it jumps up into the 20’s. Not many free agents in his position would be willing to do that.
——————————-
That happens a lot more than we realize.
Blake-
Lee left very little if any money on the table. The different deals he had to pick from represented comparable value but were structured so that the trade offs were simply different.
Lee’s deal with the Phils is extremely lucrative with a big payday, especially if he gets that clause to vest.
“Why do blake and CB repeatedly misspell Bret the Hitman’s handle?”
Hmmm. I always assumed Bret was spelling BRETT wrong.
“Personal Bartender? Mixologist?”
the good thing about being a consultant is you don’t have to show up for work everyday.
should be perfect for eiland.
Cliff Lee’s contract.
Think of it this way.
Which pitcher has a better chance to maximize his long term value?
1)Pitcher A – pitches 7 years in the AL East
2)Pitcher B – pitches 6 years in the NL East
I say Pitcher B because his NL padded stats maximize his chances of getting a second huge contract on top of the first.
There is no difference in the catching abilites of Montero and Romine, except for Romine’s problem of continuing caatcher’s interference calls. NYYs split up the Montero/Romine duo for a reason. It make zero sense to go back to that.
As far as Romine having a “down season” according to some on here, go look at his 2009 season and compare it to the 2010 numbers. Almost no change despite moving up one level and hitting in a nototious pitcher’s park…especially bad for right handed hitters.
http://www.baseball-reference......mine001aus
There is zero reason to even consider trading Montero, even for Greinke. To begin with, KC has their own catching prospect who will be in AA in Wil Myers..
‘Yankee Way’ sounds too close to ‘Yawkey Way’.
No thank you.
“Why do blake and CB repeatedly misspell Bret the Hitman’s handle?”
it’s easy to spot a troll when they insult the education of two the most professional people on the blog.
SI article about the value Montero could bring back in a trade….The writer is kind of a dope, though, as he says the Yankees will definitely trade Montero since they already tried to trade him once. Yes, but that was for Cliff Lee….
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
I’m all for trading for Big-Z. I think he’d flourish pitching for a winner and he was great late last year.
Wonder what it might take….. Joba and Granderson? Something like that? the money is high ($18+ for each of two years plus a vesting option @ $ 19M).
Martin could be a great get or a waste of cash, but I like the effort. I Figure he’ll coach about half the games with Montero about 50 and Posda 25 or so (1X a week). Between the three of them they will cover the DH slot most days and enhance the bench.
Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho! Merry Christmas, randy l! Enjoy watching the Y*nk**s next season. Will they make it to 90 wins ??
Werth presser, they asked him about Lee by asking what he thinks of what’s going on in Philly now and he said, “Is something happening in Philly? I haven’t heard.” much to the amusement of the people in the room.
Adrian Beltre
The most complete player left on the market obviously doesn’t fit for the Yankees. The last thing the Yankees need is an everyday infielder. Beltre would be a defensive upgrade and a nice boost to the lineup, but he just doesn’t fit with Alex Rodriguez at third base and Jorge Posada at DH.
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Unless of course the Yankees decided to just eat the Posada money and make him a bench player which they won’t do because Jorge would go ape-poop.
Chip – and they would technically be paying nearly $30mil for a DH
Patrick CT -
I think the two months between when Pitchers and Catchers report and the season opens will be more than enough time for Martin and Montero to familiarize themselves with the rotation.
Keep in mind that there’s a good chance at least some of the pitchers heading north will be guys Montero caught in AAA and have no history with Cervelli at all.
If the Yanks have to pay for more than half of Zambrano’s contract, he’s not worth more than Mitre.
Irreverent Discourse December 15th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
Chip – and they would technically be paying nearly $30mil for a DH
—————
Very true – but with the Lee thing falling through and Andy possibly staying in Deer Park the Yankees will have money to burn in other places.
Beltre has been a few times a contract year player. Amazing how his stats bounce. I think you do it enough times and people become skeptical of giving you a deal so you cruise through it.
carl crawford
lifetime .301 OPS at fenway
ho ho ho
Not sure this explains everything, but it is possible this had something to do with AJ’s problems on the field last year.
http://waswatching.com/2010/12.....ts-issues/
It’s the first I heard about the divorce outside of I believe Bret’s initial mention of it over the summer.
Horrible and sad if this is true, and my best to the Burnett family in getting through this.
There’s really no reason to look at offensive players at all. The Yankee’s need to talk pettitte out of retirement, and sign a 5 starter. Now that we have a pitching coach that’s actually concerned with doing his job, there’s no reason to expect Burnett and Hughes to have poor seasons.
Bret Anderson of the Oakland A’s
I found this bit intriguing from that SI article
“The A’s have a wealth of pitching and a lack of hitting; would they part with Brett Anderson — who may be the next Pettitte — for Montero?”
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....z18CpUJX5r
If the divorce stories from last season are true, I’ll peg Burnett for 17 wins right now.
GreenBeret7 December 15th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
If the Yanks have to pay for more than half of Zambrano’s contract, he’s not worth more than Mitre.
——————-
Well that’s just silly talk.
I’m not a huge Zambrano fan but he is leaps and bounds better than Sergio Mitre at almost any price.
So I was trolling on a SF giants blog, the writer of the blog made fun of the yankees for being desperate for pitching and happy Montero will probably be traded. They said cbs has brackman as our 4th starter which is entirely untrue because nova is our 4th, I don’t think brackman ever got past AA last year. Shows how much other people know about our team.
They also say the same thing about zito how we feel about burnett. Getting rid of him would be like addition by subtraction.
Randy,
But Crawford was built from the Red Sox Gods for Fenway. It’s pinball season in Boston. Pinball, I say!!!
I am not a Zambrano fan. And even if I was I wouldn’t trade anything of value for him. Having said all that, the Yankees have Rothschild who you hope knows him better than anyone. So if they make the move it will be with inside knowledge and an informed decision will be made about his actual health, makeup and worth.
GB 7 —-
Are you nuts? Zambrano not worth more than Mitre?
SJ must have been in “busy season” guessin incorrectly…oh yes he was negotiating a $120 million deal.
Bret – Hopefully Cashman is looking into the A’s… they have a lot of pitchers worth trading for.
jonmorosi Sources: Fausto Carmona garnering heavy trade interest – perhaps as much as Greinke. http://bit.ly/bsPqGk #Royals #Indians #Yankees #Rangers
They should definitely be looking at offensive players. Another DH bat who can hit lefties or provide monster offensive ability ( thome for 1.5 mil would be nice!)
And 1 back up outfielder with major league experience.
Gardner
Granderson/Jeter
Cano
A-rod
Tex
Swisher
Thome/Posada/Thames Redux
Martin/Montero/Posada
Jeter/Granderson
Bench
DH-B, Nunez, OF, Montero/Martin
Gives us 3 catchers, 3 DH bats, 2 Back Up infielders (martin can play third), and 1 OF
tyanksfan36 December 15th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
So I was trolling on a SF giants blog, the writer of the blog made fun of the yankees for being desperate for pitching and happy Montero will probably be traded. They said cbs has brackman as our 4th starter which is entirely untrue because nova is our 4th, I don’t think brackman ever got past AA last year. Shows how much other people know about our team.
They also say the same thing about zito how we feel about burnett. Getting rid of him would be like addition by subtraction.
————————
Good for them I guess
“But Crawford was built from the Red Sox Gods for Fenway.”
no, that was jason bay who the red sox could have for half the total dollar commitment and still had 100 points more OPS each season.
ho ho ho
randy, I forget, how much was crawford signed for?
I thought Ellsbury was built by the Red Sox Gods for Fenway?? When will he actually come close to any of the hype? Probably around the same time Gammons prediction of Matt Clement as a Cy Young Winner happens or Coco Crisp being considered the best CF in baseball. I always enjoy how much worse guys are when they leave and how amazing they are when they come on board. Penny and Smoltz were genius moves when they were made weren’t they? Lackey? Baldelli? Cameron? Scutaro? Any player they sign is built for that park. It’s not that hard. If you can hit it off the monster you will do well. Name a player NOT suited for Fenway park and would be a bust? A guy that just hits the ball to straight centerfield ?
Carlos Zambrano is 116-74, 3.50 for his career pitching in a band box. He was bad early last year, but won his last 8 decisions.
In his final 8 starts he was 7-0, 1.06
Cashman is doing his due dilligence. There is no doubt in my mind about that. AJ is going nowhere – I don’t think its a lot to ask to expect a better season out of him this year. Same holds true for Tex, Arod, and Jeter IMO.
Irreverent Discourse December 15th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Bret – Hopefully Cashman is looking into the A’s… they have a lot of pitchers worth trading for.
——————–
Actually they don’t.
They traded Mizarro for DeJesus and their deal for the Japanese pitcher fell through.
Right now their rotation is:
Anderson
Cahill
Get Off My Mound
Gio Gonzalez
Brandon McCarthy
Chad,
You forgot Johnny Damon!
I don’t like it when Randy uses OPS, I feel like it devalues the stat.
I’d be all for signing Thome, but that basically neuters Posada. And yes Sally, I just used the word “neuter” on the blog.
Jorge’s 4th year gums up the works. I hope he hits as DH as there are more intriguing options out there.
I’d love to see Thome vs. Bard, Papelbon, Beckett, Lackey next year in big spots.
The A’s will never ever make a deal with the Yankees. They make trades always on there terms. And they ask the world. You have a better shot at going after Johnson, Verlander, Hernandez or someone else than Brett Anderson or Cahill. Also keep in mind the pitchers park with guys like Braden.
Zambrano isn’t worth $18 mil a year for possibly 3 years, regardless of his”rebirth in the last two months of 2010. Why trust that it sticks but insist that Burnett can’t get it together? He started 2010 the same way Zambrano finished the season. Hell, why not take Alfonso Soriano’s contract with it?
ID –
Sorry I didn’t mean to say they don’t have a lot of pitchers worth trading for – I meant to say they don’t have a lot of pitching to trade.
Billy Hall would be a very useful addition. Good vs LHP, can play OF, 2B or 3B.
Thome just doesn’t fit, though he would be killer in the stadium vs RHP
Carmona is another arm that may be out there. I am not too enthused, but again CC pitched with the guy, he’s 27. For a reasonable price he might be a nice mid rotation starter and maybe CC gets him going again.
86w183 December 15th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
Billy Hall would be a very useful addition. Good vs LHP, can play OF, 2B or 3B.
—————
Hall is in the mix for the everyday LF job with the Dodgers.
For how “bad” yanks were w joba and Hughes starting we were competitive.
Screw zambrano talk, let some youngins in.
Hell, why not take Alfonso Soriano?s contract with it?
————
I miss Alf more than Erica misses Johnny. Gives me the sads just thinking about it…
I’d be all for signing Thome, but that basically neuters Posada. And yes Sally, I just used the word “neuter” on the blog.
Jorge’s 4th year gums up the works. I hope he hits as DH as there are more intriguing options out there.
I’d love to see Thome vs. Bard, Papelbon, Beckett, Lackey next year in big spots.
—
Thome only got 340 PA last year. I think as a very part time player he’d be a great pick up. Especially if Montero begins the year in AAA or back up catcher. Yankees evaluate how Jorge is at DH, how his switch hitting is holding up. Thome gets 2 games a week at DH and some pinch hitting spots. Montero comes up/shows he is cool enough to hit in the majors/catch. Or maybe he doesn’t, but Posada shows he can catch 2-3 games a week, opening up more games for Thome to DH.
I can think of a lot of rotations/situations where Thome gets about 300 PA.
Shame Spencer December 15th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Hell, why not take Alfonso Soriano?s contract with it?
————
I miss Alf more than Erica misses Johnny. Gives me the sads just thinking about it…
*********************
I got a giant Alf doll for my 6th birthday.
GB 7 —
You’re being a cranky old goat today. I haven’t written one word about AJ Burnett this off season OR about Soriano.
Yeah, Zambrano is expensive, but he would clearly help the rotation. He’s had a winning record for 8 straight seasons and his ERA has been below 4.00 each year.
He won 11 games last year, Cliff Lee won 12.
In the last 4 years he’s won 52 games. Cliff Lee has won 53.
If I were to tell you we have a pitcher that was 18-6 2.43 era in 211 innings, 245 ks and 50 walks wouldn’t you be excited????
Mark Prior 2003. Scary stats. That’s why there is now an innings limit. Man was he just crazy good.
I am sure he will bounce back haha. If he could show just a glimmer of that for an inning a few days a week though, maybe he eventually gives us something out of the pen.
Absolutely no on Zambrano and I don’t think Cash would touch him with a ten foot pole.
If AJ is getting divorced, I feel sorry for him – that’s got to be really painful, and with those kids? Poor guy.
Jerkface December 15th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
I’d be all for signing Thome, but that basically neuters Posada. And yes Sally, I just used the word “neuter” on the blog.
Jorge’s 4th year gums up the works. I hope he hits as DH as there are more intriguing options out there.
I’d love to see Thome vs. Bard, Papelbon, Beckett, Lackey next year in big spots.
—
Thome only got 340 PA last year. I think as a very part time player he’d be a great pick up. Especially if Montero begins the year in AAA or back up catcher. Yankees evaluate how Jorge is at DH, how his switch hitting is holding up. Thome gets 2 games a week at DH and some pinch hitting spots. Montero comes up/shows he is cool enough to hit in the majors/catch. Or maybe he doesn’t, but Posada shows he can catch 2-3 games a week, opening up more games for Thome to DH.
I can think of a lot of rotations/situations where Thome gets about 300 PA.
—————————-
I said it before and I will say it again:
The Yankees will sooner have Chad Moeller and Rene Rivera splitting time behind the plate than letting Jorge catch 2 or 3 times a week.
They have done everything short of telling Jorge, “sell your glove on EBay – you won’t need it” this winter.
They just brought in Martin to further enforce the idea that Jorge won’t do any catching this year – they’re not now going to bring in a DH with an eye towards Jorge playing more behind the plate.
I actually like “Get Off My Mound” . He sort of grew on me.
Didn’t have a bad season either although he’s basically pitching in the Grand Canyon.
# Phranchise December 15th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
If I were to tell you we have a pitcher that was 18-6 2.43 era in 211 innings, 245 ks and 50 walks wouldn’t you be excited????
Mark Prior 2003. Scary stats. That’s why there is now an innings limit. Man was he just crazy good.
I am sure he will bounce back haha. If he could show just a glimmer of that for an inning a few days a week though, maybe he eventually gives us something out of the pen.
————————————–
The amazing thing about Prior is when he first came up people raved about his fluid motion and how it would help him avoid injuries throughout hi…….damn I can’t even finish that sentence.
I doubt the Yankees told Heyman their plans for Martin…….I do not think Montero will be traded unless it’s for a super stud. I can see Martin and Montero splitting the catching (maybe 60/40 for Martin)………..
Romine isn’t going to bring back much. He had a bad year and though he has a rep as a good defensive catcher, it seems as if he’s not that great behind the plate.
86w183 December 15th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
GB 7 —
You’re being a cranky old goat today. I haven’t written one word about AJ Burnett this off season OR about Soriano.
Yeah, Zambrano is expensive, but he would clearly help the rotation. He’s had a winning record for 8 straight seasons and his ERA has been below 4.00 each year.
He won 11 games last year, Cliff Lee won 12.
In the last 4 years he’s won 52 games. Cliff Lee has won 53
———————————————————————————————————————-
I didn’t say you had. Part of the resonse was for you and part to others that want to unload Burnett. What part of that made me “cranky”? Because I don’t think the 270 pound Zambrano is worth $18 mil a year? If NYYS have to pay more than half, he’s not worth much.
Cashman has also been quoted as saying Posada can play himself into catching again. And they don’t have to bring in a DH with an eye towards giving Posada plate time, they can bring in a DH because he only costs 1.5 mil, doesn’t need regular playing time, and will produce 20 HRs in 1/3rd of the ABs Posada will get.
Some questions for you diehards:
1. Would any amount of money have persuaded Cliff Lee to sign for the Yanks? After all I’ve read during the last two months, I thought our offer was going to blow everyone else out of the water. Clearly, that was not the case.
2. Like everyone else, I’m desperate to see Andy P back again next year. But even if he does return, is it realistic to expect him to pitch the way he did in the first half of last season? Not only that, at his age an injury-free year is a 100-1 shot.
3. Surely Russell Martin only agreed to join the Yanks with an assurance that he will be the first-choice catcher throughout 2011. So where does that put Montero? For months, we’ve been reading what a massive talent he is. Why would we opt for a journeyman professional over an up-and-coming kid who, by all reports, can hit the casing off the ball?
3. Surely Russell Martin only agreed to join the Yanks with an assurance that he will be the first-choice catcher throughout 2011.
–
This is a really big assumption, and maybe Jesus is the backup or starts in AAA. The Yankees aren’t going to keep throwing Martin out there if he sucks.
Bruceb-
1. Everyone has a price. If we offered Lee 7yrs $180M he’d be a Yankee today….and most of us would have had a heart attack.
2. I think you can pencil Andy in for a solid 25 starts and then hopefully 4 or 5 great playoff starts.
Montero is 20 and the yankees didnt want to be in a situation where they werent prepared. i bet montero and martin split time and montero gets coached by posada, girardi, pena and martin. they will both play.
Jerkface December 15th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Cashman has also been quoted as saying Posada can play himself into catching again. And they don’t have to bring in a DH with an eye towards giving Posada plate time, they can bring in a DH because he only costs 1.5 mil, doesn’t need regular playing time, and will produce 20 HRs in 1/3rd of the ABs Posada will get.
———————-
Right but the thing is that the days Jorge’s not DHing are days when Girardi is likely to give Jeter or Alex or even Tex a half day by letting one of them DH.
The Yankees don’t need another DH on the bench. There are too few roster spots to have a bench that is that inflexible.
ac 1-
Montero is 20 and the yankees didnt want to be in a situation where they werent prepared. i bet montero and martin split time and montero gets coached by posada, girardi, pena and martin. they will both play.
—-
Or he could be trade bait
# ac1 December 15th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
Montero is 20 and the yankees didnt want to be in a situation where they werent prepared. i bet montero and martin split time and montero gets coached by posada, girardi, pena and martin. they will both play.
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I’d rather they had Nick Swisher coach Montero on the in’s and out’s of catching than Posada.
Betsy December 15th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
I doubt the Yankees told Heyman their plans for Martin…….I do not think Montero will be traded unless it’s for a super stud. I can see Martin and Montero splitting the catching (maybe 60/40 for Martin)………..
Romine isn’t going to bring back much. He had a bad year and though he has a rep as a good defensive catcher, it seems as if he’s not that great behind the plate
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romine’s 2010 season was pretty much the same as his 2009 season (where he was the FSL’s Player Of The Year) in a worse hitting park in a higher league. Check the numbers for yourself.
bruceb December 15th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Some questions for you diehards:
1. Would any amount of money have persuaded Cliff Lee to sign for the Yanks? After all I’ve read during the last two months, I thought our offer was going to blow everyone else out of the water. Clearly, that was not the case.
2. Like everyone else, I’m desperate to see Andy P back again next year. But even if he does return, is it realistic to expect him to pitch the way he did in the first half of last season? Not only that, at his age an injury-free year is a 100-1 shot.
3. Surely Russell Martin only agreed to join the Yanks with an assurance that he will be the first-choice catcher throughout 2011. So where does that put Montero? For months, we’ve been reading what a massive talent he is. Why would we opt for a journeyman professional over an up-and-coming kid who, by all reports, can hit the casing off the ball?
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Bruce -
Go look at the number of games Posada started his first full year in the bigs.
I’ve made the comparison a lot over the last couple of days – Martin is to Montero what Girardi was to Posada – a quality veteran who can let the Yankees ease the kid into a greater workload.
Mike, they are ONLY trading Montero for an Ace like Halladay / Lee. Those are the only two times his name has come in trades.
so basically, Josh Johnson and Felix and they have both been debunked.
I thought the idea of getting Martin was to gradually break Montero in…otherwise the Yankees would have picked up a better catcher than Martin…like John Buck perhaps
tyanks
what were you doing on a SF blog??? Looking for Buster news?!!
Chip – Yeah, I would certainly take Cahill or Gonzalez off their hands too… but they don’t seem to have much to work with. Then again… who does? Ivan will look just fine as their 3rd starter.
Montero has nothing left to learn in the minors. I think that they will do like with Hughes in 2009. Let him play and get his feet wet, but have martin there to catch mostly.
Irreverent Discourse December 15th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
Chip – Yeah, I would certainly take Cahill or Gonzalez off their hands too… but they don’t seem to have much to work with. Then again… who does? Ivan will look just fine as their 3rd starter.
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And Billy Beane is not known for giving discounts on his players.
Gio Gonzalez of the A’s:
Are the A’s really so desperate for a big bat?
How about Nick Swisher + Ivan Nova for Gio Gonzalez???
ac1 December 15th, 2010 at 1:55 pm
Montero has nothing left to learn in the minors. I think that they will do like with Hughes in 2009. Let him play and get his feet wet, but have martin there to catch mostly.
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Exactly.
The Yankees didn’t want to throw Montero into the deep end of the pool without floaties, nor do they want Cervelli or Posada to see any sort of time behind the plate at the ML Level – Martin is a nice compromise.
He’ll catch 60% of the games; Montero will catch the rest – They’ll likely have Martin work with 3 of the starters and Montero work with 2 of them and that’s how it will break down.
Bret The Hitman December 15th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Gio Gonzalez of the A’s:
Are the A’s really so desperate for a big bat?
How about Nick Swisher + Ivan Nova for Gio Gonzalez???
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Well since they’ve added DeJesus, Matsui and are still in the mix on Beltre I would say “no”
Swisher and Nova for Gio Gonzalez? Are we serious?
Right but the thing is that the days Jorge’s not DHing are days when Girardi is likely to give Jeter or Alex or even Tex a half day by letting one of them DH.
The Yankees don’t need another DH on the bench. There are too few roster spots to have a bench that is that inflexible.
–
Last season we had Nick Johnson as the full time DH and Thames as the backup. Posada played 120 games last season, and the season before 111. If Posada goes down then they need a DH, and having a cheap 1 or so million player on the bench who can mash would be welcome.
Posada in his career is a better hitter overall vs lefties than vs righties. This trend grew in 2010. If that continues, they will need a left handed bat to split time with him.
Montero, Martin, A-rod, Jeter are all righties. Get Thome. He’ll want to win a ring!
No idea why we would trade away Swisher, Bret. As usual your proposal creates more holes than it fills
and Thome hits well against the sox
The best comparison anyone has made is Martin/Montero Girardi/Posada
Montero still has a lot to learn behind the plate. He will get them from having two veterans on the team. It takes time to learn the position. So he will get broken in during a two year time frame. During these two years Romine will be given room to develop if he isn’t traded or Sanchez or Murphy move up. At that point they will be able to make up their minds who plays where and if Montero can catch. If not, after that, they will have Swisher’s contract expiring and Granderson coming up the year after. So Montero would either be moved out in the field or take over the DH roll for Posada. But having a 23 year old fulltime DH seems highly unlikely is he has any athletic talent at all.
Jerkface December 15th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
Right but the thing is that the days Jorge’s not DHing are days when Girardi is likely to give Jeter or Alex or even Tex a half day by letting one of them DH.
The Yankees don’t need another DH on the bench. There are too few roster spots to have a bench that is that inflexible.
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Last season we had Nick Johnson as the full time DH and Thames as the backup. Posada played 120 games last season, and the season before 111. If Posada goes down then they need a DH, and having a cheap 1 or so million player on the bench who can mash would be welcome.
Posada in his career is a better hitter overall vs lefties than vs righties. This trend grew in 2010. If that continues, they will need a left handed bat to split time with him.
Montero, Martin, A-rod, Jeter are all righties. Get Thome. He’ll want to win a ring!
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Posada missed time last year because of injuries and fatigue brought on by catching – that won’t be the case this year since he’ll be the DH.
He’ll probably end up playing closer to 140 games this season.
I don’t mind having a lefty bat on the bench somewhere – but he has to be able to play the field. Thome doesn’t fit.
I know for some reason no one likes Edwin Jackson, I’m not sure I could trust him myself, but would he cost much to get and is he really any less talented than a Carmona?
Jerkface -
And if Posada were to get hurt – Girardi would gladly let Jeter and Alex split DH duties while Nunez played SS/3b. Or Montero would DH and they would recall Cervelli to back up Martin.
“randy, I forget, how much was crawford signed for?”
50 times as much this year as gardner gets this year.
ho ho ho
I wish SJ was right…Lee on the Yankees, Crawford on the Angels…..that would have been perfect!
Martin’s in not on the tail end of his career.
Or at least he’s not supposed to be. Montero’s got catchers up the ying-yang to learn from. Great ones as well.
I do feel for Cervelli but I can see why they don’t want him catching 100+ games.
Yanks play 6 games a week. I can see Martin starting 3, Montero 2 and Posada 1 with them all seeing some time at DH as well. Nothing wrong with that.
Still leaves room for a 4th OF, utility IF and 2 more guys on the bench (assuming 11 pitchers, 12 is too many).
GB 7 — the way you wrote it clearly implied you were responding to me which is why I called you cranky since I never suggested the other items. I think Zambrano is a helluva pitcher and a helluva competitor. Depending on the cost (contract $$, players) of acquiring him I would be very interested. Seems like the kind of guy who would thrive playing for a contender.
Again… in the last four seasons Zambrano is 52-32, Lee is 53-33. Last year, Lee was 12-9, 3.18 while Zambrano was 11-6 3.33.
JackCurryYES
Yankees can and will dream about King Felix, but AL talent evaluator who talked to Mariners official said they can’t think of dealing him
5 minutes ago via web
86w183 December 15th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
Yanks play 6 games a week. I can see Martin starting 3, Montero 2 and Posada 1 with them all seeing some time at DH as well. Nothing wrong with that.
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Except that the reason Martin is being brought in is to ensure that Jorge only serves as catcher during ceremonial first pitches.
I put the over/under on games he starts behind the plate at 5.
We just gotta keep moving foward ! . simple as that . . Strenghten the bullpen , get a 4th outfielder that can hit lefties . and a pitcher that can eat up innings.
Then see what happens at the trade deadline
I said it before and I’ll say it again, if Pettitte is back this year, the odds are strong that Jorge will catch the majority of his starts…
And Zambrano’s walks and hits per 9 innings have gone up and strikeouts per 9 innings down. Wrigley is a pitcher’s part for half of the season when the winds blow in from center off of Lake Michigan. He’s still not worth $18 mil a season.
pitcher’s ***park*** for half
Carlos Zambrano vs. Cliff Lee
86w183 December 15th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
Again… in the last four seasons Zambrano is 52-32, Lee is 53-33. Last year, Lee was 12-9, 3.18 while Zambrano was 11-6 3.33.
**********
Plus Cliff Lee was 4-5 with a 3.79 in the second half of 2010 while Zambrano was 8-0 with a 1.58 ERA in the second half.
Plus Lee suffered from back problems while Zambrano was healthy.
I don’t think Zambrano is utterly worthless.
I think he’d cost 1 legit trade piece in this pitching market.
Joba.
Felix’s contract is manageable for the next two years.
If they don’t get it together they may deal him after that as he’ll earn close to 20 mil per season for 2013-14.
rodg12 —
I said it before and I?ll say it again, if Pettitte is back this year, the odds are strong that Jorge will catch the majority of his starts?
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Posada is DREADFULL behind the plate ! . .Imagine the Sox and Angles running on him !! .. NO THANKS ! I’d rather have Pettite retire than see Posada behind the plate for a majority of the games
Cashman cannot trust any deal he tries to make with the Mariners at this point.
Mike -
Andy shuts down the running game himself with his pick-off move. The only SBs he gives up are guys that go first movement and guess correctly. No catcher can throw them out. He’s supremely comfortable with Jorge calling the game for him. A relationship that has been built over years working together. I’m guessing this is something Girardi will not want to mess with…
“I wonder if SJ is hiding in the shed after all of his predictions have fallen flat. Must have been the “busy season” getting in the way”
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he doesn’t have to hide.
to my knowledge, SJ44 didn’t make any hardline predictions on Cliff Lee. He simply stated he had a feeling/belief Lee would sign. What exactly is wrong with that??
If it takes $5M to the Cubs to take Zambrano then consider it pending what Rothschild thinks or advises.
Also, send Chamberlain to the Cubs to allow Rothschild the extra (gamble) time on making something out of Burnett as the No. 5 starter. Maybe with some luck, Jobamania can re-surface in Chicago where they’re used to disappointment on a yearly basis.
Some of the rest of the former Lee money can be used to sign Kerry Wood. Squirrel the rest of the money for a need at the 7/31 trading deadline.
Cliff Lee may yet help the Yankees by opening the door to flexability.
I agree Bret
The wind does not blow in at Wrigley half the year… more like 20%
Chip — I’ll take the over… Jorge is determined to catch some… he might end up being one guy’s regular catcher.. though probably not AJ.
I could see the Andy/Po combo working together
IIRC, SJ said he would be gone for awhile last week. I doubt he is hiding.
Considering what the market is for starting pitchers, Zambrano may prove to be somewhat of a bargain……..What do you think Carl Pavano is going to fetch in the next few weeks or so ????
IF: CC pitches 17 to 20 wins
Hughes 18 to 20
AJ 13 to 15
Andy 12 to 15
Mark Prior 7 wins
NYY take 1st place. Lose in ALCS and it’s the beginning of the end.
The wind blows in from April to early May and September. It’s close enough to half.
This trading Joba thing is a little overdone. First off, he has limited trade value based on how the Yankees handled him. We still don’t know if he could be a starter or reliever after a poor year out of the pen. What does another team do with him? We are best served allowing a 25 year old pitcher with his abilities time to figure it out with a new pitching coach. Very few minor league pitchers come up as quickly as he did and he still has room to grow, learn and mature. I was always on the side of him being a starter and his struggles there were not that removed from many power pitchers early in their career. You need to learn to mix and think rather than simply overpower. We shall see, but given what they would get in return, Joba holds the most value staying put.
Betance needs to take a few spot starts. Let’s see what Brackman has. Give the kiddies a taste.
Prior getting 7 wins???? Prior pitching 7 innings would suprrise me at this point. He hasn’t pitched in the majors since 2006 let alone get a win. He will be a reliever if anything.
Can NY management be wrong about Joba as a starting pitcher? Most teams would have stuck with him and tried to develop him. What a waste.
What would King Felix get on the open market today? I would imagine, 10 years $250 Million?
What would King Felix get on the open market today? I would imagine, 10 years $250 Million?
Prior could come back and finish his career where he started it. That would be the story of 2011.
And if Posada were to get hurt – Girardi would gladly let Jeter and Alex split DH duties while Nunez played SS/3b. Or Montero would DH and they would recall Cervelli to back up Martin.
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Lol, Nunez every day at SS or 3rd? If only we paid 1.5 mil to have a 25 HR threat on our bench. It might be the most cost effective investment for the Yankees money. What is the fascination with Jeter at DH? He is only effective if used at SS.
Just like there is no way the yankees would play him at Third, its a waste of his bat.
I hope Pavano goes quickly, after the endless years talking about how he did nothing here, who needs to have him being talked about again.
Like some of posts the expectation is that Cashman has been working anywhere from plan b to plan z for awhile. So the Lee thing played out over an extended period and the Yanks came out empty. If this thing goes on endlessly again I’d have to say there isn’t much out there to happen. If Brian hasn’t been on the phone constantly (incoming and outgoing) I’d be shocked.
MLB radio has been bashing the Yankees all week. Do they have nothing else better to discuss??
Hopefully Ar oi d can produce and keep injuries to a minimum in 2011. He supposedly works out a lot so maybe he needs to cut down on some of that since the PED’s “aren’t” being used to promote workout recovery?
Pat, I’d rather the Yanks signed Pavano at $12 mil than trade for and pay Zambrano $18 mil year. People talk about Burnett’s issues, and Chamberlain’s issues and weight and to get rid of them and them want to bring in a pitcher that’s pushinh 270 pounds with his own issues, not to mention control problems. The only way you take that is for next to nothing, and that doesn’t mean Chamberlain or Burnett.
86w183 December 15th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
I agree Bret
The wind does not blow in at Wrigley half the year… more like 20%
Chip — I’ll take the over… Jorge is determined to catch some… he might end up being one guy’s regular catcher.. though probably not AJ.
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Not to put too fine a point on it but I frankly don’t care what Jorge is determined to do.
He’s a DH at this point. Physically his body can’t handle catching anymore. He gets nicked up and the nagging injuries last months instead of days. He’s not a good defensive catcher at all anymore and so there’s really no reason to put him back there if they have viable alternatives in Martin and Montero.
Pencil Jorge in for 140 – 150 games as the DH. He’ll get more days off than he will behind the plate.
Some have rumored that AJ was going through a divorce last year? If that’s true, it’s understandable that his performance tanked.
Jerkface December 15th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
And if Posada were to get hurt – Girardi would gladly let Jeter and Alex split DH duties while Nunez played SS/3b. Or Montero would DH and they would recall Cervelli to back up Martin.
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Lol, Nunez every day at SS or 3rd? If only we paid 1.5 mil to have a 25 HR threat on our bench. It might be the most cost effective investment for the Yankees money. What is the fascination with Jeter at DH? He is only effective if used at SS.
Just like there is no way the yankees would play him at Third, its a waste of his bat.
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And if Posada doesn’t get hurt you have Jim Thome sitting on the bench picking his nose because he can’t play anywhere else on the field.
Can NY management be wrong about Joba as a starting pitcher? Most teams would have stuck with him and tried to develop him. What a waste.
_______________________________________________________________________
No
The great debate will be who screwed Joba up? The Yankee process, Joba himself or a combination of both. I was so sick of Joba coming in and throwing that gopher ball or walking someone. I just wish he would go away.
SI_JonHeyman #yankees expecting pettitte to decide within days whether he’ll return for 17th season. cautiously optimistic. #TheDecision2
Chip you’re predicting Jorge is going to DH 140-150 games?
I say Jorge plays 130 games next year, 30 of those at C.
And if Posada doesn’t get hurt you have Jim Thome sitting on the bench picking his nose because he can’t play anywhere else on the field.
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Yes, as well know, once you pick a lineup it cannot be altered.
Does Joba have off the field issues? He needs to regain the eye of the tiger.
SI_JonHeyman #yankees expecting pettitte to decide within days whether he’ll return for 17th season. cautiously optimistic. #TheDecision2
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He’s gotta be coming back. I just pray Cashman can keep his snarky comments to himself. No need to put Andy through THE PROCESS.
If Posada continues to decline vs righties, we will need a lefty DH bat. If Jorge continues to have physical issues, we will need a DH. If Jorge is healthy and ends up catching more than 5 times or whatever Chip thinks, we will need a Dh.
Alex, super injured or whatever this year, DH’d 12 times. Everyone else should have a reasonable expectation not to DH because they aren’t old.
Jerkface, I won’t dispute your numbers but if he is the DH then why risk him in the field. I remember last year when our highly touted DH showed up for a month, didn’t do much and then was injured and out for the season. After that fiasco we need stability at that position and Jorge hitting from both sides is a valuable asset. How much did we play Nick for his efforts, I’ve forgotten.
Speaking of out for the season how about Steve Smith being done for the year. Bummer big loss for the Giants.
I hope Andy comes back one more year. He’ll be Moyer’s age and would probably rack up 15 wins.
OH boy there is that Kristen hater and Lee loser on MLB at his presser
Cliff Lee press conference n’effect
What a bore it must have been for Cashman to visit the deer hunter in Arkansas.
After that fiasco we need stability at that position and Jorge hitting from both sides is a valuable asset.
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So your plan is to play the injury prone posada at DH? That is the plan for stability? All we need is for Jorge to foul a ball off his foot and we’re done. Jim Thome played for 1.5 mil last season. He would be a great veteran bat and he is CHEAP. He OPS’d over 1.
please: someone ask him about the Yankee fan spitting incident.
Jerkface December 15th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
And if Posada doesn’t get hurt you have Jim Thome sitting on the bench picking his nose because he can’t play anywhere else on the field.
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Yes, as well know, once you pick a lineup it cannot be altered.
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Your logic (what there is of it) doesn’t make sense.
The Yankees just brought in a new catcher to go along with Montero – specifically to keep Jorge out from behind the plate – why are they now going to bring in Thome when the only way to get Thome and Jorge in the lineup together would be to in fact put Jorge back behind the plate?
You’re giving Posada 30 games behind the plate, conservative estimates would say that Martin gets at least 90 back there – that leaves 40 for Montero? At that point you’re better off leaving him in AAA all year so he can actually play and carrying Cervelli.
Your plan either consigns Montero to a complete bench role or no role on this team; all for a 40 year old Jim Thome.
And it leaves you no flexibility on the bench: Thome, Catcher, Nunez and one other spot…that’s awful.
Stick to metrics my friend because you certainly don’t know the first thing about baseball.
I skipped to the bottom of the thread … has anyone given any thoughts on MLBTR’s talk of a possible Fausto Carmona trade by Cleveland?
Real thoughts, not silliness. Sometimes ya gotta be specific.
If you look at Jorge’s Stats, in his career he is better vs lefties than righties, and last season he really didn’t have much left handed thunder. He is an old switch hitter, its possible he might continue to lose it on his non-natural hitting side.
That is why I suggest having a left handed DH type on the bench, because all the other DH options are righties.
please: someone ask him about Phillies fans vomiting on people
Jerkface December 15th, 2010 at 3:04 pm
After that fiasco we need stability at that position and Jorge hitting from both sides is a valuable asset.
–
So your plan is to play the injury prone posada at DH? That is the plan for stability? All we need is for Jorge to foul a ball off his foot and we’re done. Jim Thome played for 1.5 mil last season. He would be a great veteran bat and he is CHEAP. He OPS’d over 1.
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Posada’s injuries were the result of the abuse he took catching. As a DH he will not take that abuse therefore the injuries should diminish.
Ipso Facto – you’re wrong.
I’d say go head and sign Pavano if he’d play for a dollar.
Jerkface December 15th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
If you look at Jorge’s Stats, in his career he is better vs lefties than righties, and last season he really didn’t have much left handed thunder. He is an old switch hitter, its possible he might continue to lose it on his non-natural hitting side.
That is why I suggest having a left handed DH type on the bench, because all the other DH options are righties.
——————–
So now you want to turn Jorge into a $13 million platoon player?
Again. I have no problem with a left handed bat on the bench – but the guy in that role needs to be able to do more than DH.
Kate … I’d finally forgotten about that one. Thanks for reminding me right after lunch!
ha ha ha
sorry Jacques
Honestly – the Yankees would be better off with Johnny Damon on the bench than Jim Thome.
At least Damon can play a little OF from time to time.
Is Lee even a good hitter.
Jerkface, I’m guessing that he can stay healthy as the DH. Your right he can fould a ball or pull a hamstring, but at catcher you have foul balls, sliding risks on plays at the plate and he has had issues with his shoulder. I guess it’s the lesser of two eveils.
BTW I looked Nick Johnson up, we payed 5.5M last year for 72 AB’s and a .167 BA. Man the deal of the century.
There you go is your answer to the long awaited stupid ridiculous thought about the spitting.
Thank you Lee finally.
please: someone ask him about Phillies fans vomiting on people
————————————
kate: to let you know, was not taking a shot at Yankee fans. I don’t even know if anyone spit. I simply wondered, if it had input on him/his wife decision.
Chip – I think you hit the nail on the head above… and didn’t even notice. Why not leave Montero in AAA for another season? Work on his catching? If Martin/Cervelli can handle it… why waste him away for half a season? Next year when Jorge is gone there will be plenty of time to work Montero in at the ML level splitting time between DH and C.
At least Lee did admit that the incident played no part and if fact never even happened.
Alden_Gonzalez
Lee on Yankee Stadium incident w/ wife: “That was way overblown. Nobody came up to my wife and spit on her, nobody poured anything on her.”
Can someone post some of the highlights?
That incident was way overblown. No one spit or poured anything on my wife. In opposing teams stadiums, people are going to say things to people. It’s to be expected. Everything was way overblown. It didn’t factor in to anything or my decision, not one bit.
- Cliff Lee
Again. I have no problem with a left handed bat on the bench – but the guy in that role needs to be able to do more than DH.
______________________________________________________________________
I don’t disagree the trend is now to have DH’s that can walk and chew gum so to speak meaning they can hit and play the field.
Professional sports is a prety heartless arena, but to a great Yankee like Jorge and a member of the core 4 I’d like to see him finish his last year or two here in whatever role fits him right now.
Melkmanisinhotlanta December 15th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Some have rumored that AJ was going through a divorce last year? If that’s true, it’s understandable that his performance tanked.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kinda funny. Many people go through divorces and manage to go to work every day for whatever their vocation may be.
It’s rather doubtful that with the $$$ Burnett makes, there’s a clause in his contract saying he can stink it up on the mound because of a divorce and all is forgiven.
Vinny B
I didn’t think you were taking a shot at Yankee fans, I thought you were taking a shot at those who thought the spitting was why Lee didn’t sign w/ the Yankees.
BloggingBombers Cliff Lee on leaving money on the table: “When you hit a certain point, enough’s enough.”
So now you want to turn Jorge into a $13 million platoon player?
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So because Jorge is owed 13 million you’d run him out there even if he wasn’t producing?
I already went over this
the bench is DH bat, Nunez, Montero, and OFer
Martin plays C and can play Third.
Nunez backs up Third and SS
OFer backs up OF
DH bat can pinch hit and DH
Catcher backs up catcher
The yankees aren’t going to sign 2 outfielders, what use would they be? They’re not going to sign 2 infielders, what use would they be? You’re not trying to get Ramiro Pena and Nunez into the same lineup, thats suicide.
Damon isn’t going to cost 1 mil.
Thome hit: .283 .412 .627 1.039
Damon hit: .271 .355 .401 .756 and can no longer play the outfield
Face……I see your point very clearly about Jorge and I agree……Jim Thome would be a nice fit in beefing the lineup….GB brought his name up about a month ago and was torched by the locals here…….Also I have no problem if Zambrano was to come here if the price was reasonable……
Irreverent Discourse December 15th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
Chip – I think you hit the nail on the head above… and didn’t even notice. Why not leave Montero in AAA for another season? Work on his catching? If Martin/Cervelli can handle it… why waste him away for half a season? Next year when Jorge is gone there will be plenty of time to work Montero in at the ML level splitting time between DH and C.
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ID -
The Yankees didn’t pick up Martin to give Montero more time – they picked him up to:
a) keep Jorge out of the mix behind the plate
b) upgrade from Cervelli
The club is going to treat Montero the same way they treated Posada when he came up. He’ll get 60 – 70 games behind the dish; probably working with the same pitchers as often as possible while Martin handles the rest.
This blog has turned to crap since Pete left. I’m sick of that giant PC Richards banner that pops up every time I come here and pushes the page down. That doesn’t make me want to shop at PC Richards, it makes me want to avoid them. I also just now, got an actual pop up when I clicked on the comments.. What is this? My computer is clean and I have a pop up blocker. You’re not helping your cause by trying shove advertisments down our throats…
So why did Cliff say was really the reason why he turned down the Yanks offer??????
“BloggingBombers Cliff Lee on leaving money on the table: “When you hit a certain point, enough’s enough.””
Somewhere, Chuck Greenberg sits perplexed.
Jerkface December 15th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
So now you want to turn Jorge into a $13 million platoon player?
–
So because Jorge is owed 13 million you’d run him out there even if he wasn’t producing?
I already went over this
the bench is DH bat, Nunez, Montero, and OFer
Martin plays C and can play Third.
Nunez backs up Third and SS
OFer backs up OF
DH bat can pinch hit and DH
Catcher backs up catcher
The yankees aren’t going to sign 2 outfielders, what use would they be? They’re not going to sign 2 infielders, what use would they be? You’re not trying to get Ramiro Pena and Nunez into the same lineup, thats suicide.
Damon isn’t going to cost 1 mil.
Thome hit: .283 .412 .627 1.039
Damon hit: .271 .355 .401 .756 and can no longer play the outfield
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Yankees had two outfielders on their bench last year in Thames and either Kearns or Winn.
And while Thames was terrible when he played the OF the fact is that at least he could go out there – Thome can’t.
I’m not advocating signing Damon – I’m just pointing out that even Damon makes more sense than Thome does.
Look, if Jorge wasn’t around I would be all for signing Gentleman Jim, but you’re not adding a DH to a team with too many DH’s as is.
The Yankee haters have guaranteed failure for next year. Sure, on paper Philly, boston, san fran look awesome. Here’s hopin we shock everybody by the end of the 11 season……or… at least go down fighting next season.
Did Lee just call his wife a liar?
# upstate kate December 15th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
Vinny B
I didn’t think you were taking a shot at Yankee fans, I thought you were taking a shot at those who thought the spitting was why Lee didn’t sign w/ the Yankees.
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kate: ok. kewl
vinny-b December 15th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
That incident was way overblown. No one spit or poured anything on my wife. In opposing teams stadiums, people are going to say things to people. It?s to be expected. Everything was way overblown. It didn?t factor in to anything or my decision, not one bit.
- Cliff Lee
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so, he’s calling his wife a liar?
108 stitches – you must be about 15 years old if you believe that’s how divorce effects people.
MoRings42….Bring back the exotic dancers ????
And by the way – if you’re turning Jorge into a platoon DH where he only plays against LHP then be prepared to deal with a lot of fallout because Posada would not take that sitting down.
It was probably hard enough to sell him on the notion that he’s not a catcher anymore, turn him into a player who only gets to play 1/3 of the time and he’ll explode.
This bit of info posted in an article in the NY Daily. As you can see last year all the Giants did was add one name Mark DeRosa.
HOT WINTER, COLD SUMMER Maybe losing Cliff Lee isn’t such a bad thing. The Yankees almost always win the hot-stove battle, yet they have just one title to show for it since 2000. A look at their major winter acquisitions compared to the more modest offseason moves of the champs of last 10 years:
2001
YANKEES: Mike Mussina
D-BACKS: Mark Grace, Reggie Sanders
2002
YANKEES: Jason Giambi, David Wells, Rondell White, Robin Ventura
ANGELS: Aaron Sele
2003
YANKEES: Hideki Matsui, Jose Contreras
MARLINS: Ivan Rodriguez, Charles Johnson, Juan Pierre
2004
YANKEES: Alex Rodriguez, Kevin Brown, Javier Vazquez, Gary Sheffield, Kenny Lofton
RED SOX: Curt Schilling, Mark Bellhorn
2005
YANKEES: Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright, Tony Womack
WHITE SOX: Jermaine Dye, Scott Podsednik
2006
YANKEES: Johnny Damon, Kyle Farnsworth
CARDINALS: Juan Encarnacion, Sidney Ponson, Braden Looper
2007
YANKEES: Andy Pettitte, Kei Igawa
RED SOX: Daisuke Matsuzaka, Hideki Okajima
2008
YANKEES: A-Rod, Rivera and Posada all re-sign
PHILLIES: Brad Lidge
2009
YANKEES: CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira, A.J. Burnett, Nick Swisher
*Yankees win World Series*
2010
YANKEES: Curtis Granderson, Javier Vazquez, Nick Johnson
GIANTS: Mark DeRosa
I think if they do keep Montero which I’m hoping, they would be best having him learn from Posada, I know he is declining defensively but he was a great catcher for a long time, it would be stupid to keep him down until 2012 when posada is gone, so he can learn about our pitchers from a guy who caught them for a year? I don’t see it. It makes more sense for Posada to be around much like girardi was when he was first coming up.(I know girardi wasn’t around for that long with the yankees but he had been playing for quite some time so he was much more experienced than martin is)
lol.
when he was asked about playing/living in New York, he hesitated a while. And smiled a little bit.
Irreverent Discourse December 15th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
108 stitches – you must be about 15 years old if you believe that’s how divorce effects people.
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Or he’s never been divorced.
Fact is it impacts different people different ways and it’s BS for any of us to speculate on its impact on AJ’s season.
“So why did Cliff say was really the reason why he turned down the Yanks offer??????”
From what I’m hearing it’s either because:
1) The Phillies didn’t make it or;
2) Enough’s enough.
Pat M, YES!! The Lace ad’s brought character to this place lol
I bet if you took a poll, the overwhelming majority would agree!
My computer is clean and I have a pop up blocker. You’re not helping your cause by trying shove advertisments down our throats…
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I really don’t think Pete would have saved you from unwanted advertising.
And technically speaking, advertisements, as annoying as they are, do help their cause(revenue)
Chip – I can speculate on the black eye he showed up to pitch with
Chip,
are you scared that Thome might produce and then the Yankees will give Posada less playing time? For such a minimal cost of investment, for a roster spot the Yankees would not use anyways, I don’t see the downside.
It is almost 100% upside.
You can pinch hit Thome for Martin once a game. He can DH if you put Posada behind the plate. He can DH if you like the match up. He can DH if you want to give Posada a day off.
Posada had a stiff neck, a sore knee, took a foul ball of his foot all in 2010.
And here is Cashman’s quote about Posada: “He’s our DH,” Cashman said. “That’s what he is, unless he plays himself off it.”
Unless he plays himself off it? If he does that, you better have a DH ready.
And by the way – if you’re turning Jorge into a platoon DH where he only plays against LHP then be prepared to deal with a lot of fallout because Posada would not take that sitting down.
It was probably hard enough to sell him on the notion that he’s not a catcher anymore, turn him into a player who only gets to play 1/3 of the time and he’ll explode.
–
Good, trade for Zambrano to punch Jorge in the mouth when he pops off about being platooned with a guy who hit 25 HRs in 270 ABs
UnKnown December 15th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
This bit of info posted in an article in the NY Daily. As you can see last year all the Giants did was add one name Mark DeRosa.
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Well yes but when you go into the season with a rotation of Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez and then call up Buster Posey and Madison Bumgardner and add 10 players during the season I think saying that all they did was bring in DeRosa during the winter is a little silly.
And while Thames was terrible when he played the OF the fact is that at least he could go out there – Thome can’t.
–
Thames was such a last resort at OF I don’t think its fair to categorize him as such. Injuries to Granderson forced that issue.
So… What happens if the Yankees offer Montero+Nova for Lee…
Jerkface – no reason to pay thome any money, with a switch hitting DH on the roster and ready to go.
new post
Jerkface December 15th, 2010 at 3:23 pm
Chip,
are you scared that Thome might produce and then the Yankees will give Posada less playing time? For such a minimal cost of investment, for a roster spot the Yankees would not use anyways, I don’t see the downside.
It is almost 100% upside.
You can pinch hit Thome for Martin once a game. He can DH if you put Posada behind the plate. He can DH if you like the match up. He can DH if you want to give Posada a day off.
Posada had a stiff neck, a sore knee, took a foul ball of his foot all in 2010.
And here is Cashman’s quote about Posada: “He’s our DH,” Cashman said. “That’s what he is, unless he plays himself off it.”
Unless he plays himself off it? If he does that, you better have a DH ready.
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Here’s the downside:
You’re less flexible as a 25 man roster. Thome can’t run, he can’t field and there are very few spots where he’s going to be asked to pinch hit.
Posada’s injuries:
all resulted from him catching – which he isn’t going to do, therefore he’s going to suffer fewer injuries and miss fewer games.
All of this to get Jim Thome here who if all goes well will see the field only slightly more often than you or I would.
It makes zero sense – spend the money and the roster spot elsewhere.
Cliff Lee took the Phillies offer because pitching in the NL is like pitching in the minors leagues to some pitchers most of the time…(Roy Halladay, CC, even Cliff Lee).
What’s he going to enjoy more of? Pitching in the AL East with 2+ strong teams (not counting his own) or pitching in the NL Least with who?
His chances are just as good with the Phillies as they are here AND he’s going to dominate teams much easier than he would in the AL.
Pat M. December 15th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
Face……I see your point very clearly about Jorge and I agree……Jim Thome would be a nice fit in beefing the lineup….GB brought his name up about a month ago and was torched by the locals here…….Also I have no problem if Zambrano was to come here if the price was reasonable……
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Pat, I was mainly responding to the “send Chamberlain/Burnett out of town” faction that want them gone to bring in another question mark. I certainly don’t want Pavano, but, I don’t want Zambrano unless the Yanks get the best of the deal. His cost is high and his numbers are getting worse…walks, hits, strikeouts. That’s why I wouldn’t give up anything more than Mitre and maybe Justin Snyder. Could Zambrano change? Sure, and so could Burnett and Chamberlain. As far as Rothschild goes, he’s had more than two years to fix Zambrano and hasn’t. Why would he be able to now? The pinstripes are magical, but, that’s witchcraft thinking.
Unknown … you mentioned Kei Igawa !!!
I’d finally forgotten about that one.
Thanks for reminding me right after lunch!
ha ha ha
Gary
Maybe Lee just liked being in Philly, wanted to be part of a rotation with 3 other guys who are that good, and $120+ million or whatever is more than enough money.
If the annual salary is even within range of the other offers, and the offers you’re talking about are in the general neighborhood of 20 million a year, I would weigh the same things into my decision. If I was in his position of course.
It’s not like he’s losing the amount of the difference in the offers or paying someone the amount out of his pocket to play in Philly. He’s just got a different perspective than just seeing the most total dollars available.
I heard a rumor that the Yankees are on King Felix’s no-trade list. It seems that more than a few top pitchers aren’t exactly enamored with New York. (Lee and Greinke). To me, New York is one of the great cities in the world and the Yankees the greatest sports franchise in the world. But clearly, on both accounts, we aren’t everyone’s cup of tea.
So onward we go. $180 million or so to get it done, spend it wisely Cashman.