Time to check the net
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 15, 2010 
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At some point during last week’s Winter Meetings, I told a friend that — for the time being — the Yankees were the most falsely interesting team in baseball. They were at the heart of the game’s biggest ongoing story, but that story was the same day after day.
The Yankees were interested in Cliff Lee. They were talking to Cliff Lee. Oh my gosh, they were making Cliff Lee an offer!
Derek Jeter’s press conference changed the tone for a while, but even at Jeter’s press conference, Brian Cashman answered a series of Lee questions. Back at the meetings themselves, when he wasn’t talking about Lee, Cashman was talking about the “wide net” he had cast into the free agent and trade markets.
Turns out, we should have focused on the net.
“You have to be in a position to still know what the trade market is,” Cashman said yesterday. “What the available free agent market is, the prices attached to that, the requests, and match it up to what your budget is.”
Now that the story has changed, it’s time for Cashman to begin looking into that net to find the pieces that fit.
“There are definitely pitchers out there available,” Cashman said the day before he left Orlando. “And I know that we can line up with teams because of the deep farm system I think we have, and I think people recognize that. There are some players that are available on the trade market.”
Good Luck Cashman !!
Sounds good Cash.
My thinking too.
Bust a few moves.
If there’s any chance the Cubs eat 50% of the Zambrano deal he’d be a great pick up, IMO.
we won the series with cc, aj, pettitte, joba, mitre and an injured wang. next year’s rotation will be better than that! cash will get it done!
I’m sure most of check the “net” every day. Most more than once.
MTU,
I answered you in the prev thread.
Randy,
I agree with you. Martin is talented and was considered one of the best young catchers in baseball just a short time ago andhes still just 27. All depends on how he responds to the injury and the change in scenery. I do wonder I he takes off and does great though where that leaves Montero…..sure he could DH next season I guess or maybe they could try him in Left or Right field……having a lot of catching options is never a bad thing though as we found out last year.
edit: “of us”. Duh. sorry.
Good article by Madden referencing the Yanks young minor league pitching depth. Nice to hear about the 3 B’s. Hope 1 of them sees time at the big level next year, like Banuelos but time will tell. Yet Another smarmy written article by Lupica referencing Yankees money and spending & big contracts on the books. If he wants a GM to build a winner through creative trades or without giving out any big contracts to star players, he should just point to the success of the..of the…..
Blake-
Yes, I saw that. Thanks. Just trying to gauge your current level of interest.
I don’t think he’s coming here anyway.
Lupica reminds me of a dachshund.
There’s a lot of yipping, and if you’re not careful he might bight your ankle.
Let’s be realistic. Cashman had a terrible winter last year, and this winter isn’t looking much better. He’s busy holding press conferences left and right, repelling down tall buildings, and calling everyone “dude”, while professional GMs such as Theo Epstein, with a smaller budget and a supposedly less deep farm system, are rebuliding their teams.
Is Cashman really the genius that some around here think, or is he just the lucky beneficiary of the highest budget in the majors?
Lupica’s act is so lazy and tired…..im seriously surprised that his editor hasn’t called him on it. His many times can you write the same opinion.
Unless that player is Josh Johnson, it won’t be that much on an improvement.
Also, Pettitte isn’t a sure thing either.
If he doesn’t come back and AJ is still a putz, this team will be hard press to win 90+ games again.
# Niblick December 15th, 2010 at 9:12 am
Let’s be realistic. Cashman had a terrible winter last year, and this winter isn’t looking much better. He’s busy holding press conferences left and right, repelling down tall buildings, and calling everyone “dude”, while professional GMs such as Theo Epstein, with a smaller budget and a supposedly less deep farm system, are rebuliding their teams.
Is Cashman really the genius that some around here think, or is he just the lucky beneficiary of the highest budget in the majors?
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Um….WHAT? What made Cashman’s previous winter “terrible”? They were coming off a WS, and the two best FA’s were Lackey and Bay and both were overpaid and under performed in 2010. Cashman put together a team that won 95 games and went to the ALCS in 2010 that’s “terrible”?
Also, the Sox did not have a “less deep” farm system than the Yankees. Maybe now they do, because their prospects have either come to the majors: Pedroia, Ellsbury, Buccholz, Lester. Or they’ve been traded for Beckett & now A-Gon.
hardwired
you are on a roll today…very clever
“His [How] many times can you write the same opinion.”
blake – you frequent the blog enough to know that the answer to that question is ellusive
Dropping $142 mil on Crawford or $126 on Werth wasn’t my idea of rebuilding. What the Yankees needed was a great starter… and that was Lee. The Yanks didn’t need Crawford nor did they need Werth… the did need Lee. And with Pettitte still mulling retirement, this rotation is all of two deep with a nut case for the third pitcher, an untested rook for the fourth and a Meat head for the 5th.
Thoughts:
Like the Prior signing as a low risk moderate reward deal. If they re-sign Kerry Wood they could have two of the best former phenoms in baseball – not that it really means anything.
Tim Kurkjian last night on ESPN said that he has spoken with former teammates and close friends of Greinke and to a man they all say the same thing, the kid is all about competition and would thrive in New York. I suppose it is possible that all of the stuff we’re hearing from the Yankee front office about Greinke is misdirection. Again, this winter has been all about moves that don’t get reported so it wouldn’t shock me at all.
Maybe something like: Gardner, Nunez, Joba, Romine and Betances for Zack keeps Montero and Hughes out of the mix?
Billy Ripken needs a muzzle – last night on MLB Network he said that this offseason shows that players around the game view the Yankees on a downward spiral because the top four free agents signed elsewhere…Well the only one that the Yankees made an offer to was Cliff Lee so I don’t see how Victor Martinez, Carl Crawford or Jayson Werth “spurned the Yankees.”
I think the notion that towards July King Felix or Josh Johnson will be available is nutty. Both players just signed long term deals within the last couple of years – both are key marketing tools for their clubs and with the Marlins opening their new stadium, neither team is strapped for cash.
The best trade targets (and I’m not considering all these guys equally) – IMNSHO are: Billingsly, Greinke, Carmona, Peavy, Kyle Davies
Best FA targets (non-Andy division): Harden (who did not agree to a contract with the A’s), Young, Millwood, Francis
Best internal candidate to step up: Phelps.
The three B’s and the kid they just signed from the international market are far too far away and Nova’s upside – while there – is limited.
“going to the red sox would have been easy. he would have had a starting job and the wall to swing at.”
Utter hogwash Randy. Boston offered Martin a minor league deal. If anyone recognizes Varitekian offense in a catcher, it’s them.
one thing i did notice last week is that john heyman was right on the money while people on here swore he knows nothing. shows you why he’s a professional and the ‘experts’ on here who were calling him a shill are opining here instead of being paid for thier ‘knowlege’
Chip,
I think the Royals are asking for way too much from us for a guy we are hoping can handle the pressures of NY. It’s too rich for my blood.
I agree with you that there’s very little chance Felix or Johnson become available at the deadline. I took a look at JJ’s contract situation yesterday and there’s no reason for the Marlins to deal him.
This Yankee off season has been “much ado about nothin’.” More talk than anything else. Cashman an staff need to roll up their sleeves & get to work…. We need a starter that can eat some innings, Pronto Senor………
Here’s what I don’t understand about the Baseball Intelligencia:
Yankees sign Lee and he’s too old, too hurt, too much money. The team is getting older, it’s an embarassment to baseball…blah blah blah
Phillies sign Lee, adding him to a rotation featuring Halladay and Oswalt (both older than any starters on the Yankees right now) and a payroll with those two, Howard, Utley and Rollins – and it’s a great move, no mention of Lee’s age, injury history or salary (except that it’s a bargain and a great thing that he left money on the table) and the Phillies are an amazing front office that are building their team the right way.
I would like to print up the definition of hypocracy and send it to all of them.
Angelo – Let’s look at last winter’s acquisitions: Nick Johnson, Javy Vazquez, Randy Winn, Chan Ho Park – all bad; Grandy, Logan – ok. Altoghether, a bad winter. And I’m not even considering who we gave up for the aforementioned.
my feeling on greinke is that if he’s game to come, i want him on the yankees. i think his attitude is the determining factor of whether he can make it here, the guy sure can pitch. they need to find a back-door way of finding out what zach is thinking about coming to ny.
“Let’s be realistic. Cashman had a terrible winter last year….”
Benefit of hindsight is really nice, eh? Wasn’t anything about that winter that looked terrible when Cashman procured a young, reasonably priced, sometimes all-star centerfielder and a 200 inning horse just off of his best season. Things may not have worked out as planned, but no reasonable fan could have gone into the 2010 season believing Cashman did a lousy job in the offseason. He addressed the two most significant issues left over from a World Series champion.
“Utter hogwash Randy. Boston offered Martin a minor league deal. If anyone recognizes Varitekian offense in a catcher, it’s them. ”
mell-
your scouting report has been filed away and duly noted for when martin is thriving next summer as a yankee.
YsGuy, I did enjoy that. Heyman is right quite a bit. The ESPN guys were killing him. But when does Gammons or Olney or anyone there really provide any insights? ESPN is a shell of itself and is competition so what would you expect? And I feel he is far better coverage of the Yankees than many of the guys like Sherman who rarely give any good information since he wrote the book.
# Niblick December 15th, 2010 at 9:25 am
Angelo – Let’s look at last winter’s acquisitions: Nick Johnson, Javy Vazquez, Randy Winn, Chan Ho Park – all bad; Grandy, Logan – ok. Altoghether, a bad winter. And I’m not even considering who we gave up for the aforementioned.
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I hate Johnson with a passion, lol, and I did not think the move would work out but what was Cashman going to do here? Boras and Damon were unreasonable in their demands, and ended up settling for a deal worse than Cashman offered him. What did we give up to get Javy that the Yanks need? They at least got Logan back in the deal who was an important piece last year. Win & Park did not work out but they weren’t “big” moves, I can’t hammer him there. I’m not saying Cashman had a great offseason last year, I just didn’t find it to be terrible. I didn’t think there was any situation where they should have acted in a different way or went in a different direction. I might not have liked a move or 2, but I at least understood why it was made.
YsGuy -
I’d hold off on Grienke
What if by the All-Star break the Mariners are out of contention and rumors float that King Felix is on the block.. Wouldn’t you want to save those prospects for him instead ?? or Josh Johnson
“your scouting report has been filed away and duly noted for when martin is thriving next summer as a yankee.”
Fair enough Randy.
Just as long as your’s is too when he’s slugging .330 and needing to have the game called from the bench.
If the Yankees can’t do any better than Mark Prior I would suggest they cut their ticket prices. If their payroll drops to 170 million why not invest it in your fans.
Gammons doesn’t work for ESPN anymore, he hasnt for over a year now…
# Mike Ri December 15th, 2010 at 9:29 am
YsGuy -
I’d hold off on Grienke
What if by the All-Star break the Mariners are out of contention and rumors float that King Felix is on the block.. Wouldn’t you want to save those prospects for him instead ?? or Josh Johnson
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Why would the M’s trade Felix now when he’s under an unbelievable cheap (for the production he gives) contract?
One positive is that the Cervelli era is about over. He can now fade into oblivion. Nice man, little talent….. He needs to land on the Pirates for a bag of balls.
“If the Yankees can’t do any better than Mark Prior I would suggest they cut their ticket prices. If their payroll drops to 170 million why not invest it in your fans”
Isn’t this a determination better made when all the information is in? Season doesn’t start tomorrow. Plenty of time to address things. Nothing wrong with the Prior signing. Small change with potential for some reward.
Felix and Josh have long term deals that are good for the teams. Tell me why those teams would want to trade them? Get real.
If I were Cashman, you go after Andy hard, you sign Webb who has huge upside and high risk to a one year, if possible one year with a vesting option based on innings. That way you have an extra arm when Andy probably is done next year. If Webb fails the option will not kick in anyway. Then you enter the season with CC, Andy, Hughes, AJ and Webb with Nova and Mitre in long relief. You bolster the pen and get yourself a fourth OF. Then mid season see if the Mariners have a fire sale and try to push Figgins into a package with his bad contract. He would be your INF and spell Arod at 3B. Maybe after another half season of development, some of the Yankees AA take another step forward and become more valuable as trade chips. I really don’t want to trade Montero at his age and hitting ability as Arod ages. Romine becomes more expandable, but you can’t keep everyone with Sanchez coming up. Martin/Montero is Girardi/Posada combo from years back you hope. The only guys I want to hold onto is Montero, Bauenlos, Sanchez and Heathcott. Hitting catchers, left handed pitching and speed are harder things to come by. And if you make a trade you only make a move for a young stud pitcher.
Niblick December 15th, 2010 at 9:25 am
Angelo – Let’s look at last winter’s acquisitions: Nick Johnson, Javy Vazquez, Randy Winn, Chan Ho Park – all bad; Grandy, Logan – ok. Altoghether, a bad winter. And I’m not even considering who we gave up for the aforementioned.
———————-
Who did the Yankees give up that will be missed? Austin Jackson? If everything works out perfectly for Jackson he might someday be as good as Curtis Granderson…maybe.
Melky had a terrible year; Dunn didn’t do anything, Coke is what he is, Kennedy is a fine NL pitcher but not suited for the AL – who else did they give up?
Do you mean not re-signing Matsui and Damon? Both are old men who can’t do anything but DH and the Yankees have plenty of DHs on the team.
I believe Ivan Nova is far more fixable than either Burnett or Chamberlain.
Nova has to hide the ball better and have the stamina to get past the 5th inning.
The first thing Larry Rothschild needs to do is get into the minds of Burnett and Chamberlain to see what makes them tick unless both are dealt before spring training.
Cashman has the Lee money to work with. If Andy elects to retire, Cashman may try getting Mark Buehrle as the 2nd LH in the starting rotation to neutralize teams with heavy LH hitting lineups. No other LH starter available with experience. Banuelos won’t be on the scene until 2013. Cashman won’t just sit on his hands.
hardwired7 December 15th, 2010 at 9:11 am
Lupica reminds me of a dachshund
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Oh, I thought you were referring to his low stature, as compared to everything, and everyone around him.
# 108 stitches December 15th, 2010 at 9:41 am
I believe Ivan Nova is far more fixable than either Burnett or Chamberlain.
Nova has to hide the ball better and have the stamina to get past the 5th inning.
The first thing Larry Rothschild needs to do is get into the minds of Burnett and Chamberlain to see what makes them tick unless both are dealt before spring training.
Cashman has the Lee money to work with. If Andy elects to retire, Cashman may try getting Mark Buehrle as the 2nd LH in the starting rotation to neutralize teams with heavy LH hitting lineups. No other LH starter available with experience. Banuelos won’t be on the scene until 2013. Cashman won’t just sit on his hands.
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I’m pretty sure Buerhle has either a player option or a very easily reachable incentive to kick in an awfully high salaried extra year. Plus I think the Sox would eat up his style of pitching.
Look at the top free agents out there Pavano and Millwood are it. Which one do you want? The back end of the rotation will be a problem all year.
Mell -
Hindsight is delightful isn’t it.
Everyone called Theo and Luccino geniuses for not getting Jose Contreras but lest we forget they demolished a hotel room because they missed out on him.
Pavano was an awful signing by Cashman – but there were teams lined up around the block trying to make that same awful signing.
Who knows, Cliff Lee could morph into Barry Zito II and Brian will come out smelling like a rose for not getting him here.
“I believe Ivan Nova is far more fixable than either Burnett or Chamberlain”
Kinda thought of Nova as development in process rather than broken, but I agree that of the three he’s the most likely to get the most from his skillset in 2011.
wernerman December 15th, 2010 at 9:43 am
Look at the top free agents out there Pavano and Millwood are it. Which one do you want? The back end of the rotation will be a problem all year.
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You have no idea if that’s the case. You also have no idea whether or not the Yankees make a trade between now and then.
Brian said the right things for the most part. He is smack dab now on the firing line after last winter and this winter so far. No one is going to cut him any slack if the Yanks don’t perform well next year.
Mell December 15th, 2010 at 9:44 am
“I believe Ivan Nova is far more fixable than either Burnett or Chamberlain”
Kinda thought of Nova as development in process rather than broken, but I agree that of the three he’s the most likely to get the most from his skillset in 2011.
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I could see AJ having enough pride in himself to bounce back from a bad season. Joba’s work ethic annoys me.
Nova has to develop, not be fixed.
“just as long as your’s is too when he’s slugging .330 and needing to have the game called from the bench.”
mell-
just curious. why would a supposed yankee fan bad mouth a new yankee who has been a two time all star who has a very big upside for the yankees since he already has a silver bat and a gold glove and who is still young?
Nova has to develop, not be fixed.
________________________________________________________________________
We can only hope that the endless binders, rules, and excessive analysis don’t screwup Nova to.
From Ken Rosenthal (real Ken)
RAFAEL SORIANO
Among the Lee losers, the Rangers are unlikely to spend big for a reliever, even if they move righty Neftali Feliz to the rotation. But one rival exec thinks the Yankees could target Soriano as part of their post-Lee recovery program.
The Yankees could pay Soriano closer money for three or four years, effectively buying insurance for Mariano Rivera while putting his successor in place.
Kerry Wood, another free-agent candidate for the Yankees, is seeking a two-year, $12 million deal, according to one source.
Gary December 15th, 2010 at 9:45 am
Brian said the right things for the most part. He is smack dab now on the firing line after last winter and this winter so far. No one is going to cut him any slack if the Yanks don’t perform well next year.
———————–
Why is he on the firing line?
What could he have done different in the Lee negotiations? They had the highest bid on the table, Lee wanted to play somewhere else – short of moving the Yankees to Philly I don’t see what Brian could have done to change Lee’s mind that he didn’t do.
He re-signed his two key free agents (Jeter and Mo) to very reasonable deals; the other free agents who went elsewhere (Victor, Crawford, Werth) weren’t guys he had any interest in nor guys the team needed.
Last year he did nothing wrong either – he turned spare parts into Javy Vazquez which didn’t work out as he planned but didn’t kill the club either. He shaved some age with Matsui and Damon being gone. Brought in a tremendous CF, probably the best one we’ve had since Bernie was in his prime – again, without having to give up anything too valuable.
He had two relatively low cost FA busts (Winn and Johnson) and corrected them with low cost buys at midseason (Berkman and Kearns) and picked up a key reliever for next to nothing.
Oh and the team made it to the ALCS.
So again – why is he on the firing line?
How about getting Wood back at $10M/2, plus some incentives.
RAFAEL SORIANO
_____________________________________________________________________
Seems lkike the Yanks would have to pay him alot of incentive money to step out of closer role. It’s got to a differnt world as your paying a guy now in nthe short term for holds and less limelight. Most of these closers have hugh ego’s. Personally I don’t see him giving that up.
randy l. December 15th, 2010 at 9:45 am
“just as long as your’s is too when he’s slugging .330 and needing to have the game called from the bench.”
mell-
just curious. why would a supposed yankee fan bad mouth a new yankee who has been a two time all star who has a very big upside for the yankees since he already has a silver bat and a gold glove and who is still young?
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Randy -
A Yankee fan doesn’t have to love every new Yankee. I for one hated them picking up Roger Clemens and Joe Girardi…I just hope Martin proves guys like Mell wrong.
“….. john heyman was right on the money while people on here swore he knows nothing. ”
Heyman’s sources have always been agents. If they want something leaked, he’s the man!
In return they give him a 10 minute head start on news that will be breaking.
I could get on board with taking the Lee money and upgrading the bullpen with Soriano, Wood and a lefty. We’d probably still have some money left over (assume 10 to Soriano, 6 to Wood, 2 to lefty) to get a mid-rotation starter from someone in a trade.
Chip. ok guy calm down obviously your high on Brian so it’s OK your opinion. I’m not going to comment back and start another back and forth. Lets leave it there.
I agree with Niblick. Cashman has done a lot of posturing but not much else. The decision was Cliff Lee’s to make and he obivously didn’t want to come to NY, but if some people around baseball knew of his desire to return to Philly why didn’t Cashman or his staff pick up on that info? Cashman’s strength as a GM has been the check book he was given not his ability to read situations and make decisions. To get CC he actually out-bid himself. He comes off as smug and arrogant. Look how he handled the Jeter situation that says it all.
I don’t think Soriano is going anywhere unless he’s the closer on day one. I’d be awesome if we could convince him otherwise with a 3-4 year deal, but I just don’t see it happening. But Cashmoney has proved me wrong before.
With Soriano, why not think about co-closers, then neither would have to work back to back games, or you could have the best combo since Mo & Wet.
Having a stronger BP, reducing games to 6 innings, would do wonders for the SP staff.
Woods
Soriano
Mo
Game over!
The big blow in the Javy Vasquez deal was giving up Arodys Viscaino who experts say would be ranked ahead of all the killer B’s if he was still in the Yankees system. Viscaino could have been a huge trade chip at the moment for us.
There are a few reasons to trade Felix at some point.
1) While he is a stud. A rotation around him of Fister, Bedard, Vargas and French at the moment gets them no where. They cannot win with that rotation. Moving him potentially adds prospects that bulster that rotation down the line. And they have noooooo offense to offset a weak rotation either.
2) Given that they are going no where they owe Ichiro $34 million at age 37 for this year and next. They owe Figgins $27 million over the next three. While one can argue Ichiro still draws tickets, I would assume maybe he starts pushing for a trade to have a shot at a World Series? And they is quite a bit of salary relief. Figgins is an awful contract as he provides nothing. Yankees coudl use either guy and afford to pay their inflated deals. Would they be willing to eat both, probably not, but I am sure the Mariners would love to lose Figgins. Figgins would give the Yankees depth all around, a guy that can spell Arod at third base ever few games and give them speed and a pinch hitter.
So basically since the Mariners don’t have a ton overall they are years away from competing. They could give themselves an influx of young and cheap talent as well as financial flexability to start fresh and be aggressive in the free agent market again.
“just curious. why would a supposed yankee fan bad mouth a new yankee who has been a two time all star who has a very big upside for the yankees since he already has a silver bat and a gold glove and who is still young?”
I’ve seen the results and read the scouting reports, Randy. Don’t see him as a worthy of a $4M investment based on what he’s been the past two and half years.
Outside of the rotation, the Yankees don’t have major needs. All the other things are wants and nice little improvements that will make the team that much better.
The Yankees just haven’t needed to have big off seasons last year and this year (obviously outside of Cliff Lee) because our team is fairly solid for the next few years.
Don’t forget along with the Javy acquisiton we got a month of Nick Johnson and it was a pretty crummy month at that.
“A Yankee fan doesn’t have to love every new Yankee.”
chip-
that’s true. i never liked cervelli as as any more than a back up,but i like him just fine as that.
i pay attention when people make predictions about players because if they turn out to be right more often that not i read their posts. if they are wrong more often than not . i don’t read them.
FELIX HERNANDEZ
The Mariners have King Felix for 4 more years. They’re trapped in the the basement now but they play in a wide open division against a fallen Angels team and a Rangers team with escalating contracts and no Cliff Lee. Alot can happen in 4 years.
Shame,
Fair point….but at least we don’t get paid to write the same thing over and over
Chip,
I agree that Felix or Johnson probably wont be made available in July but you really never know. The Marlins never cease to amaze…..
# Phranchise December 15th, 2010 at 9:58 am
There are a few reasons to trade Felix at some point.
1) While he is a stud. A rotation around him of Fister, Bedard, Vargas and French at the moment gets them no where. They cannot win with that rotation. Moving him potentially adds prospects that bulster that rotation down the line. And they have noooooo offense to offset a weak rotation either.
2) Given that they are going no where they owe Ichiro $34 million at age 37 for this year and next. They owe Figgins $27 million over the next three. While one can argue Ichiro still draws tickets, I would assume maybe he starts pushing for a trade to have a shot at a World Series? And they is quite a bit of salary relief. Figgins is an awful contract as he provides nothing. Yankees coudl use either guy and afford to pay their inflated deals. Would they be willing to eat both, probably not, but I am sure the Mariners would love to lose Figgins. Figgins would give the Yankees depth all around, a guy that can spell Arod at third base ever few games and give them speed and a pinch hitter.
So basically since the Mariners don’t have a ton overall they are years away from competing. They could give themselves an influx of young and cheap talent as well as financial flexability to start fresh and be aggressive in the free agent market again.
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That’s the point though, Felix is young & cheap. They’re not going to move him with multiple years on his affordable contract. Maybe next year when he is drawing closer to that $20M year on his contract Seattle could look to move him. He is going to make $10M this year to give the M’s $25M production. Whether they’re going to win or not, trading Felix makes no sense for them.
“if they are wrong more often than not . i don’t read them.”
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Then how did you see Chip’s post?
“The big blow in the Javy Vasquez deal was giving up Arodys Viscaino who experts say would be ranked ahead of all the killer B’s if he was still in the Yankees system. Viscaino could have been a huge trade chip at the moment for us.”
He was the key trade chip then. He got a much needed innings eater who had just finished 4th in the Cy Young voting for the NL. Didn’t workout, but Vazquez, as the Yankees thought he would be, was what the team needed and though Vizcaino may well turn out to be a fine pitcher when he returns from injury, it was a deal that needed doing and was done without leaving the system anywhere near barren.
MTU,
i completely agree with your early morning assessment that tweaks are not getting it done. The rotation fell apart last year and there is no reason to expect it will be better this year absent meaningful additions. Signing an injury prone pitcher is not the solution.
I think Greinke, if he wants to come, would be ideal. Otherwise, someone of the Floyd, Zambrano(although his velocity is down), Buehrle ilk is needed.
Cashman said his off-season needs were pitching, pitching and pitching. So far, the needs are utterly unfullfilled.
The Mariners have King Felix for 4 more years. They?re trapped in the the basement now but they play in a wide open division against a fallen Angels team and a Rangers team with escalating contracts and no Cliff Lee. Alot can happen in 4 years.
Brett-
The Angeles will always be competitive. and the Rangers are in a better postion to succeed in the next four years than the Mariners are.
Yeah well the combo of Felix and Figgins or Ichiro isn’t cheap though is it? The same arguement could be said when the Marlins traded Beckett/Lowell. The Yankees would have to give up 4-5 prospects. Maybe Joba, Betcances, Romine, Warren and a lesser guy, eat the money to even start a conversation. Now would you do that? I don’t know, but you are giving the Mariners two guys in Joba and Betcances with either high rotation potential or closing ability, a potential starting catcher for an extended period in a few years, Warren who may be a mid to back rotation starter while also giving you $30 million per year worth of cash to play with to fill out the roster further? Again, I am not claiming it is a slam dunk for the Mariners, but when you are treading water and don’t have a ton coming up the pipe, the chances they lose Felix at some point is high. You are right, may not be this year, but each year that goes by the risk of injury goes higher and his ridiculous young age gets older. Just my thought, but that is also with the mentaility I want the Yankees to have a shot at him.
CASHMAN mired in 2 year slump:
In the past couple off seasons Cashman has cut ties with beloved players like Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui. His additions have been failures and his failed targets significant.
Nick Johnson, Javier Vazquez, Randy Winn. He missed out on or was never really in the running for Cliff Lee, Carl Crawford and Jayson Werth.
Curtis Granderson is a great player but Cashman gave up 3 solid major leaguers for him in Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy and Phil Coke.
You really can’t go through 2 off seasons in a row producing zero to little short term and long term help for the New York Yankees.
Eventually the fans are going to swarm and circle like sharks.
Cashman is definitely on the hot seat right now.
Unless his plan B of patience materializes into real assets, the Steinbrothers are going to get their bite on soon too.
Austin-
Just waitin’ to see if Cashman will bust a move.
I have been on Gavin Floyd for a while.
He’s not great but he a solid mid to back end guy who will eat innings, and he knows the AL.
I Hope Andy comes back. If not we will be forced to trade IMO, and shoot quite a bit higher.
“Don’t see him as a worthy of a $4M investment based on what he’s been the past two and half years.”
i read this morning that he turned down 4.2 million with the dodgers. they know him better than anyone and if they offered that much the yankee signing doesn’t seem out of line with what he’s worth.
totally separate from his hitting the yankees absolutely needed someone who could throw out runners at a 30-40% rate and they got one.
catchers who are banged up can go through down times offensively. the thing i like about martin from my early read on him is that he’s a really hard-nosed catcher who has a little bit of attitude to him.
swisher hit .220 something the year before he came to the yankees. some players like him raise their game when they put on the pinstripes. it’s been that way forever. i have a hunch martin is going to one of those guys.
we’ll see.
Soriano talk is interesting. I’m personally not sold on Wood performing as he did for us last year for a full season… so I’d like some other additions besides him. But I have faith in Girardi regarding the pen. He always seems to find the right pieces. For a couple months last year, I wasn’t sure what would become of Robertson but he ended up getting his act together. I still believe Joba can be effective in the 7th-8th inning role.
I think the Mariners are much more likely to hang onto Hernandez than the Marlins are to Johnson. The Mariners spend more money and have Felix to a year longer deal. Johnson is a FA after 2013 and the Marlins are in a pretty tough division. They will move him at some point just may be a couple years from now.
# Phranchise December 15th, 2010 at 10:10 am
Yeah well the combo of Felix and Figgins or Ichiro isn’t cheap though is it? The same arguement could be said when the Marlins traded Beckett/Lowell. The Yankees would have to give up 4-5 prospects. Maybe Joba, Betcances, Romine, Warren and a lesser guy, eat the money to even start a conversation. Now would you do that? I don’t know, but you are giving the Mariners two guys in Joba and Betcances with either high rotation potential or closing ability, a potential starting catcher for an extended period in a few years, Warren who may be a mid to back rotation starter while also giving you $30 million per year worth of cash to play with to fill out the roster further? Again, I am not claiming it is a slam dunk for the Mariners, but when you are treading water and don’t have a ton coming up the pipe, the chances they lose Felix at some point is high. You are right, may not be this year, but each year that goes by the risk of injury goes higher and his ridiculous young age gets older. Just my thought, but that is also with the mentaility I want the Yankees to have a shot at him.
——————
Because Felix, Ichiro and Figgins combo isn’t cheap you think they should move the one guy of the three who presents the M’s with a bargain? Where is the logic in that? If the M’s want to field even a half way competitive team & they deal Felix, they’ll have to pay almost 3x to get his production back some where else. At this point trading him is not in their best interest. Just because we want him (and believe me, I’d carry Jesus Montero to Seattle on my back if it got the deal done) doesn’t mean Seattle has to move him.
Also, we all forget last year people were picking the M’s to win the West. It’s not completely far fetched to think they can approach .500 this year.
The Mariners aren’t going to trade Felix Hernandez. Just not gonna happen, ain’t gonna do it.
Even if the rest of the rotation is crap, they will keep him to sell tickets.
Don’t see Ichiro moving either, though there are plenty of clubs who would not mind having him on their team.
If Figgins contract is so bad, why in the world would he be useful to the Yankees?
They did need Lee. But only for about 3 seasons.
Many were saying he’s gonna age like Maddux. Maddux pitched until he was 42. Maddux didn’t need the great fastball. Maddux still had the pinpoint control. etc. etc.
First. Maddux was an All-Star and getting Cy Young consideration at an age when Cliff Lee was fetching water. Cliff’s definitely a late bloomer. Second, even Maddux was no longer Maddux after age 36.
Chad Finn hit the nail on the head.
” Brian Cashman probably was forced by Randy Levine and the Sons of Steinbrenner to rappel out of his office window last night after the rejection letter arrived. But seven years and $154 million, for a pitcher who will be 33 next summer, one who is reliant on plus-plus command rather than overpowering stuff, one who has had back issues off and on and had a 6.29 ERA as recently as 2007, one whose most similar comp and age 30 and 31 is Denny Neagle? Is he really worth it, or is a just someone who synchronized his peak and free agency perfectly?
Later …….
I see Sabathia & Hughes as the only two starters the Yankes can count on. CC is CC, and Hughes had a pretty good year & will keep on improving. Pettitte, well if he comes back that’s great. AJ, well if he works out his kinks that’s great.
Cashman has to act as if Pettitte & AJ are not going to be in the picture. Go out and add 2 pitchers who are more than just innings-eaters, and make sure there are at least 4 good pitchers in the rotation. Then he can take whatever good Pettitte, AJ, and someone like Ivan Nova can offer to fill out the rotation. Or someone else. He could add 3 pitchers and still take Pettitte back. Boston has six starters to choose from plus Wakefield now. “You can never have enough pitching” is something that gets said over & over.
He shouldn’t throw in the towel and look to trade for guys who are what many bloggers may refer to as a number 3 or a 4 or a 5 starter, simply because CC and Hughes are now our 1 and 2. Don’t look for a Javier Vazquez type. Obviously Cashman’s not going to count on a guy like Mark Prior to complete rotation going into spring training. Look for the best you can get, guys who would be one of the top 2 starters on their old teams and on most teams in the AL. If they put up numbers better than Hughes and Hughes is pitching well, well then great. To have a Hughes putting up good numbers, giving the team lots of quality starts and wins and have 2 more pitchers plus CC doing better, nobody (not even bridge jumping bloggers) should complain. I know some still will, but that’s not my problem. And NY could still be in good shape if the same Hughes is turns out to be the 2nd best on the team too. Depends on how everyone performs.
King Felix? If a trade that big can be done and there are still 9 able-bodied players left in the organization to take the field, sure you have to at least think about that one. If a pitcher like Pettitte or Good AJ (who’s been platooning with Bad AJ) turns out to be the 5th pitcher you rely on, that’s not bad. Quality depth is important and those guys are not typical “number 5s”.
Obviously Philly has a historically superior rotation now. but they’re in the NL. And they don’t NEED to unload Blanton although they could probably benefit from adding a bat. But remember the 90′s Braves had Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery etc on the mound for so long … they owned their division for about 10 years but won only one WS in that time.
King Felix is not available. Should the Yankees hold on to their assets for 3-4 years in the event he becomes available then? A large dose of trade reality is needed. Look somewhere besides Felix and Johnson.
I do agree this is the year Cashman has to act. I suggest a lower package be offered for Greinke in return the Yankees take the last year of Meche’s contract. That is the one year cost of Lee while perhaps saving some of the prospects.
Cutting ties to Damon and Matsui were the right moves.
Cashman isn’t on the hot seat as the owner lives in Tampa and doesn’t give a rip what some impatient and unreasonable Yankee fans say on some blog.
Kate did you get hit with a ton of snow yesterday?
Comet
“You really can’t go through 2 off seasons in a row producing zero to little short term and long term help for the New York Yankees.”
————-
A CF who is signed through 2013 for a reasonable amount of money is not short term or long term help for the Yankees?
A CF *with 30 HR power* who is signed through 2013
randy,
Mark this post.
Granderson will have a higher OPS than Crawford in 2011.
“totally separate from his hitting the yankees absolutely needed someone who could throw out runners at a 30-40% rate and they got one”
Well, this one I’d obviously have to give you. The scouting reports back a strong throwing arm and quick release. After finishing dead last in percentage of would be basestealers thrown out, this definitely helps.
“swisher hit .220 something the year before he came to the yankees. some players like him raise their game when they put on the pinstripes”
This one I don’t buy. Swisher is a very good offensive player, with 5 or so very good years sandwiched around his OzzieFest in Chicago. Martin’s offensive game, especially in terms of slugging and average has been heading steadily south since his 2007 season (though in fairness he really didn’t start tanking til after the break in ’08). His career with the bat has featured less good than bad.
As you suggest, we’ll see.
I do not think that Cashman should go after Soriano, because at this point there is no way the Yankees should give up a 1st round pick for a reliever. The Red Sox, thanks to gaming the system, are going to have a billion first round and comp picks.
The Yankees will have 1 + their comp pick from vazquez. The only way you can say the Yankees could afford to lose draft picks is by suggesting they can just go over slot in the lower rounds, but that doesn’t work when other teams who go over slot have a ton of picks ahead of you to get all the true good signability guys.
Plus next years draft is pretty stacked supposedly (especially compared to last years).
1) Rafael Soriano
2) Andy Pettitte
3) 1 year low risk/incentive contract for Rich Harden
4) explore 3-team trade for Garza
5) send Christmas card to Ruben Amaro
6) send Christmas card to Cliff Lee’s wife
Zambrano not needed in N.Y. ! Imagine him on the same staff with A J !!! Ugh !!!
One or the other, not both !!! ( or neither )
Its amazing, the same old stuff. Greinke, Greinke, Greinke, he’s not coming, and any deal that would have to include Montero and or Hughes, Cashman just needs to say no thanks.
In trying to obtain a # 1 SP other clubs are going to try and bend Cashman over. A waste of time.
ICHIRO
Is my darkhorse trade target for Brian Cashman. He makes a ton of money and the Mariners seem to be building around Felix Hernandez and their young rotation instead. The Mariners need young position players across the board and pitchers as well. Although Ichiro is overpaid, his salary makes more sense to a contender in light of Werth’s absurd deal and more so Carl Crawford’s contract since they share a similar skill set.
If Wood is asking for 2/12, you can probably negotiate that to something like 2/10.
I’m cool with that.
Wood and a LOOGY and I think the Yankees have a really nice bullpen.
LGY,
I bet so too. If Granderson hits lefities then he’s more valuable than Crawford because he will play CF and has much more power.
from Heyman on twitter:
SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
#yankees believed on king felix’s no-trade list. he loves seattle. tho, yanks 1 team that can sometimes change things (hint: $)
Heyman’s right 95% of the time
I just wish Garza didn’t pitch for the Rays !
Angelo, the point in the trade is they cannot move Ichiro at age 37 for $17 million a year or Figgins contract. What utility infielders make $9 million bucks a year. The trade from the Mariners standpoint would erase the mistake of signing him in the first place. And they would want as many prospects as possible. What does holding onto him do?
You realize he won 13 games last year with a 2.27 era? That are an awful team. And they are an team with limited upside. They traded away top prospects to get Bedard. Their lineup is
Adam Moore, Smoak, Figgins, Jack Wilson, do they have a third baseman?, Saunders, Guiterez, Ichiro and Cust????????
Where is the upside? Smoak is the only young prospect player out of that group and he didn’t exactly light the world on fire last year.
Anyway, the question is only when will the Mariners trade King Felix within the next two years or so? Not whether they will or not, they ultimately have limited chance to resign him.
Definitely put a good rotation and competitive team around CC this year, so he doesn’t opt out next year. What if he does so and takes less money to play in Philly, and they can actually keep all 4 of those guys they have now? CC’s already set for life money-wise, and he wouldn’t have to move his home if he did.
There’s a scary thought … if they added CC to that rotation (JUST SPEAKING HYPOTHETICALLY, GET DOWN OFF THAT LEDGE), Philly wouldn’t need to allow much other payroll for 8 other guys to take the field behind them. That rotation could take a lineup of .250-hitting bench players to the WS as long as they weren’t the Bad News Bears on defense.
“Granderson will have a higher OPS than Crawford in 2011.”
lgy-
i like that prediction. it could happen. i think it’ll be interesting how close gardner comes to CC’s OPS since CC is paid 50 times as much.
if gardner is within 50 points of crawford, that’s gonna be embarrassing for sox fans.
that’s my prediction
“The Red Sox, thanks to gaming the system, are going to have a billion first round and comp picks”
One reason to pull for the Halos or A’s to jump on Beltre. Their 1st rounders = protected. The Rangers, should they get into it = not so much.
RE: Martin
Yanks are guaranteeing him $2M more than the Sox are for Varitek.
While they could end up providing about the same production, I believe the $2M risk that Martin will provide much much more is worth it.
“SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
#yankees believed on king felix’s no-trade list. he loves seattle. tho, yanks 1 team that can sometimes change things (hint: $)”
That’s just a smart agent at work.
Cashman himself admitted last off season wasn’t good. This year he missed out on Plan A, had Plan B taken off the table while he waited on Plan A, and apparently -despite the assurances of the Cashman lovers – was not working on a contingency Pan C.
“Dude” is definitely on the hot seat.
MLB needs to get rid of type B free agents.
There are many examples, but Felipe Lopez is more than enough evidence of why.
It’s a joke. Borderline avg players are netting teams 1st rd picks.
Stop the madness.
BD:
I know no Red Sox fan who wasn’t a little sick to their stomach the day he was re-signed. I think they all thought, and hoped, the Tek era was OVAH!
The no-trade is classic. Really the no-trade clauses become less about blocking deals to cities and more about player leverage to get themselves paid from bigger market teams. I am sure Felix would love NY too. If they gave him a Lee type extension to the remainder of his contract to waive it.
FELIX HERNANDEZ and JOSH JOHNSON
I think an opening offer of Phil Hughes + Jesus Montero + 1 Killer B is compelling enough to sway a GM’s decision about whether or not to cash out early on a prized proven young ace.
The question would be if the Yankees are willing to pay that much for an upgrade of 1 pitching slot.
There could be little difference between CC/Hughes vs. CC/Johnson.
But then again, CC and JJ getting 4 starts in one series could insure that the Yankees match up with the Phillies monster rotation in a world series.
New THREAD —->
“I think an opening offer of Phil Hughes + Jesus Montero + 1 Killer B is compelling enough to sway a GM’s decision about whether or not to cash out early on a prized proven young ace.”
Yeah, you’d think that might get you pretty close, especially if the Killer B is NOT Brackman.
BIG AL December 15th, 2010 at 9:57 am
With Soriano, why not think about co-closers, then neither would have to work back to back games, or you could have the best combo since Mo & Wet.
Having a stronger BP, reducing games to 6 innings, would do wonders for the SP staff.
Woods
Soriano
Mo
Game over!
——
This is how you change the landsape of the game. Add a lefty reliever and reduce the game to 5 innings. Bring Roberstson and LHRP in the 6th and 7th. Wood in 8th and co closers in 9th.
It preserves CC who you let go 6-7 no more 8-9 and allows Andy to make it through 5-6 easily.
Intersting idea.
Mell,
I know many Sox fans who were happy to see him back… though I guess most of them were girls.
Hmm…
But yes, his full value to the team isnt strictly with his on-field performance.
Still, I don’t think Martin was a big risk. The Yanks needed someone to fill that role, whether it was Martin or someone else who’d have cost $2M less.
Why would Hughes be included in any move for those guys? That makes zero sense for the Yankees. The point is to set up having Hughes and the younger guys to take over as CC and AJ decline and Andy leaves. If the price was Hughes+ the Yankees would sign a veteran starter for a short time instead. Hughes at his age can evolve to a #1 or 2 and has as much value as a Matt Cain type guy. Maybe not the cream of the crop of young pitchers, but certainly the next best thing.
It’s almost an even deal with with a Zambrano for Burnett situation with just about $2M separating their contracts, per Cotts. Zambrano waived his full no-trade clause several weeks ago. Burnett can block deals to 10 clubs each year for the remaining 3 years of his contract. Zambrano is 3+ years younger than Burnett. Nobody in the game knows Zambrano better than Larry Rothschild does. Not forgotten is his his 7-1 record after his meltdown in 2010 as a result of his anger management sessions.
If Cashman were to consider the deal, he needs only to consult with his pitching coach who may feel a change of scenery is exactly what is best for both pitchers.
Burnett has a ring from the Marlins and Yankees and is not likely to pitch the Yankees to another one.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....fhelp.html
This is mostly rubbish that comes up the few times the Yankees don’t get their man. People find it hard to understand why other MLB teams won’t just forfeit their future in order for us to win. If obtaining King Felix was a viable option why in the world would Cashman have been offering a 7 year deal to a 32 year old pitcher?? Why wouldn’t Cash have offered Montero in a center piece deal for Felix???
This is the fun part of the offseason where these off the wall trades are non-stop.
Cashman had a terrible winter last year, and this winter isn’t looking much better. He’s busy holding press conferences left and right, repelling down tall buildings, and calling everyone “dude”, while professional GMs such as Theo Epstein, with a smaller budget and a supposedly less deep farm system, are rebuliding their teams.
///THE RED SOX are more in need of rebuilding than the yankees,for one thing.they spent big on crawford,who is a dangerous player despite all the trashing of the guy going on here.but your boy theo has a rotation problem and a bullpen problem that need solving,but he has nothing left in the cupboard to really upgrade when it comes to his SP.so you might want to withhold the congratulations.
& reports of the demise of the yankee rotation have been unduly exaggerated.I’ll worry about that if AP stays home,& it has yet to come to pass.
LGY December 15th, 2010 at 10:21 am
randy,
Mark this post.
Granderson will have a higher OPS than Crawford in 2011.
///Gee whiz, hardly bold. Granderson has a higher career OPS+ than Crawford as it is,and Granderson has greater power and as a lefthanded batter is now playing his home games in Yankee Stadium.LOL.some prediction.
it would be surprising if it DIDN’T turn out that way.