Martin: “Talent doesn’t go away”
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 16, 2010 
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Near the end of a 22-minute conference call, new Yankees catcher Russell Martin used four words to sum up everything about his signing.
“Talent doesn’t go away,” he said. “I know that I can hit. I just want to get back to that consistency.”
The Yankees are counting on the talent, and truth be told, so is Martin.
Two seasons of disappointment, Martin said, were the result of trying to move beyond the things made him so good in the first place. He changed his offseason workouts, focusing on speed, agility and flexibility in an effort to become more athletic. It cost him some of his strength, and when Martin tried to make up for it with a bigger swing, he got completely out of whack.
“I think I got almost in my own way,” he said. “This year I’ve made sure to just come back to the roots and what got me to where I wanted to be those two all-star seasons.”
The injured hip is fine. Martin said he hasn’t felt any discomfort in “at least a month. He has full range of motion, and he was pushing it “pretty hard” in offseason workouts before the Yankees physical found the torn meniscus in his right knee. Now he’ll shut it down again to have the minor surgery. If nothing else, Martin said, the knee injury has forced him to give the hip a little extra rest.
“Now it’s going to be ready for sure,” he said. “There’s absolutely no problem with it.”
Martin signed with the understanding that he’ll be taking over as the everyday starter, and Brian Cashman said as much this morning. That said, Martin is not oblivious to his less-than-inspiring numbers the past two years.
“I feel like I have to earn that (starting job),” he said. “I don’t feel like there’s anything that’s owed to me, especially the way the past two years have gone for me.”
• This is the first time Martin has experienced any sort of problem with his knee. “I’m not too concerned with it,” he said.
• During his time in Los Angeles, Martin started at least 133 games at catcher three straight seasons. For comparison, Jorge Posada started that many games behind the plate once in his career. Martin said he has no number in mind of how many games he wants to catch next season. “Right now I feel fine,” he said. “But I don’t know if catching 10 or 12 games in a row, if I’m going to feel anything. I don’t feel anything right now, so I can’t tell you. I think I’ll have a better idea when I start catching and squatting in spring training.”
• As recently as 2008, Martin played 71 innings at third base. It was his primary position his first pro season. “I feel like I can play anywhere on the field,” he said. “I love catching. I love it, but if the team needs me to help out or do some other things, I’m willing to do it.”
• The past two years, Martin said, were not a complete waste: “Defensively I feel like I’ve been getting better every year. I’m learning (with) more and more experience, understanding pitchers better, understanding hitters better. In that regard I feel like I’ve advanced. Not that it gets overlooked, but to me that’s the most important job that I have is to get everything out of my pitchers.”
• Thoughts on replacing an iconic player like Jorge Posada? “The first thing I thought of was, I’m glad Posada’s there because he’s caught those guys for a while now. He’s obviously going to have a big hand in helping me learn the pitchers and what they’re all about. Their pitches. Their makeup. Things of that nature.”
• Martin said about 20 times that he just wants to be with a team that wins. He also said the Yankees went after him pretty hard, which was part of the reason he chose New York over Boston and Toronto. “All of those places are close to home, but I think the Yanks are the ones that pushed the hardest and that’s what made my decision a little easier,” he said.
• Joe Girardi on who will backup Martin: “There’s no lock on who our second catcher’s going to be. Obviously, Cervi’s got a leg up on that because he’s played at a high level for us. But these kids (Jesus Montero and Austin Romine) are going to have a chance to see what they can do.”
• Would Girardi consider playing Martin at third? “He’s a guy that, occasionally when we needed to spell Alex, he’s a guy we could possibly put there. That’s what he came up as… He has that kind of athleticism.”
• Martin on Joe Torre: “He always had good things to say about the Yankees. I haven’t talked to him (since signing), but every time he talked about the Yankees, you could feel that in his heart that he meant what he was saying, and he just said good things.”
Associated Press photos. The second photo is from the play that injured Martin’s hip.
If the Yankees sign Soriano (I have doubts about those rumors) and Pedro Feliciano then it means Joba Chamberlain either gets traded or goes back into the rotation. With those 2 and Rivera, Robertson & Logan there won’t be room for him in the ‘pen.
Chip December 16th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
Plan B is they still have essentially the same team that won the wild card last year and went to the ALCS. Minus a horrible Vazquez.
How are the yankees getting any worse this offseason?
The other teams are playing catch-up. The RedSox signings so far are so overrated its not even funny anymore.
———————-
The only thing on the Sox that I will say on their behalf is that I seriously doubt they suffer the same massive injuries that depleted their team last year.
Youk, Pedroia and 2/3 of their OF missing almost the entire season made last year more of a fluke than an indication of their actual ability.
BloggingBombers
Yankees official just downplayed the idea that they will go after Rafael Soriano. “The price is going to be too high,” the official said.
On Martin –
It seems like Martin has a little chip on his shoulder and is looking to prove the people who thought he was washed up as wrong. Good for him – I hope it pays off for him and the Yankees.
If so, $4 mil for a 27-year old catcher under team control for another year would be a heck of a bargain.
Don’t you think its odd that only Yankee fans feel that way? And, actually, only some Yankee fans. You need a new prescription for your pinstriped glasses.
—————
this isnt a good argument because the media loves everything the Sox do (with the possible exception of some in media that called them out for thier run prevention plan last yr). The Sox are better than they were at this time last yr….but not a lot better.
Chip – Through all of those injuries, at no point during the season was their offense holding them back. It was all about pitching with the RedSox last year… or their lack of it.
As it stands today just looking at the team now vs. the team last year our bullpen is weaker with Wood not resigned replaced.
Our rotation is weaker with Andy not resigned/replaced and with no replacement for Vazquez not to mention not knowing who AJ is as a pitcher any longer.
Our DH position is weakened losing Thames/Berkman combo and going to solely Posada as DH.
Our catching position may have improved but that remains to be seen. I could easily see Girardi break camp with Cervelli on the staff and Montero back in the minors.
Long story short, the team has not filled holes created from last years team and has not improved other than catcher and that’s debatable.
Add to the fact that Texeira may be showing us who he really is as a hitter from this point on and that is not a 23 million dollar cornerstone hitter.
I won’t even get into what happens if Jeter hits the same or worse.
The team has not gotten better and is relying on older players to rebound in big ways, for Texeira to go back to being a .290-.300 hitter with power and right now is asking Ivan Nova to be the 4 starter.
Cashman has moves to make. I hope he knows what they are.
Bringing back Andy is one piece. Finding another legitimate starting pitcher still needs to happen. He also has to replace Wood in the pen and he needs to add a strong offensive player in a reserve role at minimum.
With players falling off the board now he’s either going to bargain basement shop or trade the farm.
Absurdity at its finest.
If the Yankee’s go all out in the FA market, people complain they spend too much money/should develop more players in house.
If the Yankee’s don’t get involved in a FA market that has only overpaid every single player that signed so far, people complain.
So do you want the Yankee’s to trust their system and spend money when it is appropriate or do you want them to constantly overpay for Free agents?
You can’t have it both ways.
The Sox fate will rely on what they get from 3-5 in their rotation…..no different from the Yankees really.
The Martin signing is a very good signing. Low-to-no risk here – it’s not like he’s our only catcher. Not a game-changing blockbuster that some are hoping for, but he could be a surprisingly good player for the Yanks next year. Worst case the Yanks are out 4M bucks. Probably 3 games worth of hot dog sales.
Frankie Piliere on Montero:
The bottom line is that there is a big difference between having defensive deficiencies and not being able to play the position at all. Montero is ready to play catcher in 2011, and the more I’ve seen from him, the more confident I’ve become of that fact. He’ll have his moments that frustrate you back there, but there are no deficiencies that are glaring enough to warrant moving him off the position. His potential to hit 35 home runs a year should more than make up for that.
With all that said, the Yankees have just signed Russell Martin. For most any other club, Montero would likely be given a very real shot at the catching job in 2011. Given the Yankees’ financial might, you can’t blame them for going out and buying a safety net for their young catcher, but this is going to be an interesting case study in just how willing they are to let this next wave of young talent infuse itself into their roster.
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/1.....rve-youth/
G.Love – That is a very glass is half empty look at things. Looks like you have a lot of complaints without any answers.
Getting into some media leak war with Boras over Soriano is another big waste of time.
I’m tired of seeing our anonymous officials leaking stuff to the press.
How about making a deal instead of talking about one through twitter leaks.
“what coaches on the yankees tell them how to be champions ?”
Maybe the best role for Joba is to be pitching coach and then he can tell the other pitchers how to be champions.
Agree, G. Love. Good post.
3 closers for the Red Sox. Tough
3 closers. 0 good ones. Not a problem.
G. Love-
If you saw my posts from early this am you know I’m with you.
Let’s hope there’s something big coming that’s just hidden from view right now.
I second that G. Love….all we keep hearing about is who the Yankees are NOT in on. No Zambrano, no Jenks, no Wood, no Soriano, no Fuentes, no Grienke, and it goes on and on. This team needs two more relievers including a reliable 8th inning man, two starting pitchers and a strong righty-hitting outfielder. No instead, all we hear about is Jerry Hairston, Jr. Cashman needs to get his head out of his arse.
And I certainly wouldn’t rely on Pettitte given he said, only a month ago, that is still weak from his groin injury and it will be physically tough putting himself through it again
“How about making a deal instead of talking about one through twitter leaks.”
Seems to be there theme lately – express interest in everyone, sign no one.]
Day late and dollar short continually.
I don’t think people remember how inconsistent our pen was before Wood arrived. People cite how good D-Rob, Joba, etc. were in the 2nd half, but IMO, that was largely because they were in lesser roles after Wood arrived.
A voice of reason in the media:
JackCurryYES
By signing Martin, the Yanks can allow Montero to progress at his pace, not theirs. He could also be trade chip, but only 4 elite pitcher
Papelbon and Jenks have shown the ability to be good in the past. Bard is a future closer. Tough stuff
By signing Martin, the Yanks can allow Montero to progress at his pace, not theirs. He could also be trade chip, but only 4 elite pitcher
That assumes Martin reverts back to his old form, not the guy he’s been the last 1.5 years.
MTU….I just left a response on the last thread on Russell Martin…….I’ve need to learn this post and copy thing…..I’ve had a PC for over 15 years, maybe it’s time !!!! Love Russell Martin
This whole “day late” thing is a joke. You have to be the most impatient people on the planet.
It’s December 16th. Not March 1st.
There are NO players out there in the FA market to fill the holes the Yankee’s have. Not within reason or without overpaying like crazy.
To have it your way the Yankee’s would sink themselves on bad contracts just because they NEED to sign players they don’t actually need.
Boston seems to have stolen our Plan B. They are the ones building a strong pen. And Pete Abe says they are still in on Fuentes too.
Jenks’ peripherals suggest he is due for a big bounce back. Wanted him badly, much safer investment than Wood would have been.
Either way… they are going to be tough.
ID,
My concerns about the team are for real. I have not loved this offense for a few seasons now. We won a title with the streaky play but that was when our guys hit their career batting averages.
Once their batting averages plummeted the streaky nature of the team became the albatross a lot of us were afraid of.
I just don’t see where this team has gotten better. Jeter is older and off his worst season ever. Posada doesn’t get on base or hit for a high enough average to be a quality DH. Tex looks like late era Giambi either walking, HR’ing or smashing into the shift.
On the glass half full side I will say this — I think Granderson will be better. I think Gardner, if healthy, will be what he was in the first half of last year. I think Cano will be a beast and Arod will put up his usual minimums power wise.
I’m not sure Swisher will hit for as high an average as he did last year though.
I look at the rotation and I love CC and need to see improvement and continued development from Hughes.
From there the rotation is a complete mess and reminds me of 2008.
They need to resign Andy and hope he stays healthy and still bring in another quality starter to round out that rotation in my book.
It’s not to replace Nova (who I like) per se. It’s to mitigate against AJ being a complete waste as a starting pitcher again.
As for the pen it’s possible to think Joba and Robertsen can handle the 8th inning, but the team and the pen really clicked when they added Wood in the role and pushed everyone back. With that hole still in the pen I’m not that confident.
Basically we’re expecting big improvement from Jeter, Tex, Posada, Hughes, AJ, Joba, Robertsen and Granderson.
That’s a lot of players to be expecting improvement from not to mention expecting the group we’re expecting to further develop into bigger roles on the team.
I’m not even complaining about losing out on Lee and Crawford here. I just don’t see any outside the box moves to address the issues most of know are prevalent on this team.
“Obviously, Cervi’s got a leg up on that because he’s played at a high level for us”
I guess that depends on what the meaning of high is.
What is with the negativity about Tex? I really don’t understand that. The Yankees are not far off here. They do need to get a few pen arms and another Sp. Plus a bench player. But people lack patience. If signings don’t happen immediately, it’s Cashman is an idiot…
Pat M.-
I saw it and I very much hope you’re right.
I cheated on computers it’s what I did for a living.
Are you hearing anything on a big trade for a pitcher, etc ?
Irreverent Discourse:
There are definitely players out there, Cashman just refuses to pay the price. Not one of these players will bankrupt the team and the way the team is constructed right now, they are NOT a playoff team.
Well things are definitely not decided right now.
Has anyone worn 55 since Matsui? I see 55 on Martin’s helmet and wonder if the Yankees will hold that number out a few years.
G. Love…….You need to snap out of this dark funk you’re in ……Yanks will be more than good in 2011……..
Greinke + Soriano please.
Show some balls Cash.
Do it.
If Martin is healthy and if he can play like he did in 2007 and 2008 then signing him was a GREAT pickup. Granted, those are two enormous “ifs”.
Also I’d be pretty stoked if the Yanks signed Soriano, I just think it’s impossible that they can convince him to go back to being a setup guy after he’s shown that he’s a proven lockdown closer.
Bobby Jenks has gotten progressively worse the last 3 years. Right now he’s just a name, and let’s be honest the name “Jenks” isn’t exactly a good one.
Other thoughts on my mind:
Posada had an .811 OPS last year. The majority of DH’s suck big time. Even with the year Thames had last year Posada got on base at a higher percentage than Thames. Berkman sucked big time as a Yankee.
Cervelli threw out no one last year. Russell Martin is an immediate upgrade from Cervelli even if he hits the same as he’s hit the past two years, at least he can control the running game.
Red Sox sign Bobby Jenks and now have a higher payroll than the Yankees.. We are getting murdered this off season.. What are they doing? We didn’t need another catcher.. we need starting pitching.. and now a bridge to MO. Pitching, Cashman. PITCHING!!!!!!!
Posada will do fine. The way G Love talks the Yankees are headed for the basement. Just wait things out a little. The Yankees will make some more moves.
The Yankees are not even a playoff team right now? Am I missing something or are there 4 teams better than the Yankees in the AL right now that I just can’t see?
I could glass half empty the hell out of every team in the AL right now. Yankees will win 90+
Kerry wood signed for 1 year and 1.5 million!? How could the Yanks not beat that. What is going on?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....um=twitter
Soriano will be too expensive for Cashman
He will go sign Chad Qualls, maybe a Jerry Hairston, and call it an offseason.
Pat M.,
I’m worried about this team. We’re expecting too many bounce backs and we’re missing half a rotation right now.
I do think moves are coming, I’m just sad to think a guy like Montero could get dealt to fill a rotation spot for 2011 because of poor planning and putting all the eggs into the Lee basket.
As for my being negative about Texeira, I can’t hide it anymore. He’s not good enough to be our 3 hitter anymore unless he starts to hit for average again.
If Adrian Gonzales hits over .300 and for power in Boston, I hope for Tex’s sake he reverts to the hitter he was before he became a Yankee who batting over .300 in 3 seasons. .250 mashing into the shift isn’t going to cut it.
It’s pretty obvious Cash is going to try & go all out to upgrade the pen and bench and overall flexibility of te roster.
My question is where are we finding a starter reliable enough to warrant a trade?
Andy Pettitte, if he returns, is a one year band-aid at best and injured at worst. This guy isn’t any younger so to paint him to be the guy who makes our rotation legitimate is ridiculous.
He will be good, and not a horse, thru the season and great in October. But we need to get there.
Cash needs to make a move @ some point unless we are just waiting for 3 Bs.
Maybe Wood really likes Chicago? If he signed for that little I doubt Cashman even made an offer. Wood’s second half was most likely a fluke
MLBTR: Kerry Wood agreed to return to his baseball roots and sign with his original team for one year, $1.5 million
———
Wow, Wood really wanted to go back to the Cubs, he got paid nothing.
re: Jesus Montero
C’mon, the guy was traded for 3 extra months of Cliff Lee and people are panicked about trading him for 2 years of Zack Greinke?
G.Love – You aren’t really too far off, but the basis of your post is that there is some reason to expect the players to perform BELOW their career averages. This makes no sense.
Posada doesn’t get on base or hit for a high enough average to be a quality DH. Tex looks like late era Giambi either walking, HR’ing or smashing into the shift.
I think you have no idea what the league average DH actually does. Posada is certainly better than the average DH, especially when he is healthy from not literally being a backstop.
I also don’t believe there is good reason to assume these things about Teixeira based on 1 season.
The rotation is a mess, but what solution is there? Vazquez being bad last year didn’t just screw them over last year, it also made him un-signable this year. Lee clearly never really wanted to go to NY. So your only option is to grossly overpay in trade for a starter or work with what you have.
We’re not expecting “big improvement”. We only expect them to do what they usually do. We only NEED them to do what they usually do.
When they do that, as you said above… the Yankees win world series. Last year was a pretty bad down year for what… 7 or 8 guys on the roster? And the team came within 2 games of the world series? How much did their down years actually effect anything?
Assuming players will underperform year over year to make a point is not very intelligent. Assuming they will perform near their career averages is.
Sweet Swinging Cano,
Tex disappeared for 3 months last year. I guarantee you if both players are healthy A Gon will far outproduce Tex. So far Tex has not been worth the money he is getting
JoelSherman1
#Yankees not on Soriano. Hate prices set-up guys such Wood, Crain, etc, certainly not anxious to pay elite closer $ to Soriano to set-up
As usual… another tease. We’d better get used to this newfound way of doing business…
People shouldn’t confuse the redsox making all these moves, with the Yankees throwing in the towel. Just because things don’t happen immediately, doesn’t mean they won’t. Cashman said after the Lee debacle he was preaching patience. Yankees are gonna be a good team. I really don’t see how someone questions that.
Everyone seems to be missing the best piece of news here:
With the Jenks signing, Boston’s payroll is officially higher than our’s.
Look, I don’t care if it only lasts until the end of the day, or if it remains this way all season. The fact of the matter is, on 12/16/2010, we no longer have the highest payroll in baseball, and years and years of antagonistic barbs, excuses, and generally buffoonary are all down the drain, because they’ve officially become what they hated.
Of course, the media will still fellate them, and only focus on the money that WE spend, but for a brief, fleeting moment, they’ll all look like morons for doing it.
Wood pitched a grand total of 26 innings for the Yankees and people are acting as if the Yankees just lost Mariano Rivera.
Tex had a down year for his standards. But it was one season! What happened in 2009? A bit premature to say he isn’t worth the money. Plus he still had 30 100 and a spectacular glove. He is not a problem for this team whatsoever.
I’m looking forward to what Martin is going to bring to the table…………He doesn’t have to be Mauer, he just has to be solid…….and I like that Montero won’t have the pressure on him to be the leader of the staff.
As to Cashman, I love the guy, but I have to admit I’m disappointed in him. We have all this non-Lee $$ and he’s just taking his sweet time. If the idea is to strengthen the pen, why not go harder after Wood and Jenks?
C’mon, the guy was traded for 3 extra months of Cliff Lee and people are panicked about trading him for 2 years of Zack Greinke?
—
Yeah we also hated the idea of trading him for Cliff Lee. Montero is untouchable unless an elite pitcher is coming back. Greinke is not elite…
when they hit spring training they will have a strong team…..need to fill a SP or two, add a couple of RP’s and a hitter…. they will be good to go
He put up those numbers while he was constantly hurt last year also. It amazes me how much our fans put down our players, but build up opposing players.
I am a little frustrated too Betsy. But I believe the right things will be done.
Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
The Yankees are not even a playoff team right now? Am I missing something or are there 4 teams better than the Yankees in the AL right now that I just can’t see?
If they don’t get Pettitte or someone comparable, they may not be.
CC-AJ – Hughes- Nova -Mitre…no EIG…Posadasaurus, Jetersaurus, Arodasaurus.
And Pettite should hardly be counted on to last all year if he comes back.
Lots of time – LOTS – for Cashman to do something. And he has all the resources. But right now, the playoffs are no lock.
coney1 – <i.There are definitely players out there, Cashman just refuses to pay the price. Not one of these players will bankrupt the team and the way the team is constructed right now, they are NOT a playoff team.
False. False. False.
First of all, it’s December 16th. The way the team is constructed right now is irrelevant.
There are… what players out there? So many that you couldn’t name a single one to plug a hole on the roster?
Cashman refuses to pay over the price.
How are the Yankees not a playoffs team right now? What team in the AL got better that is going to threaten their ability to at least win a wild card?
Are you telling me that the RedSox + A-Gon + Crawford – Beltre – VMart + same old pitching = 8 wins?
You can be sensationalistic, but it doesnt make you right.
It actually sickens me someone trying to create a problem out of TEX. How many teams would kill for this guy? I agree Mstarr.
Martin has a lot to prove. If he can regain his 2008 form, that would be huge, but it’s been 2 bad years now and a bunch of injuries.
re: Carlos Marmol
Maybe the Yankees are trying to acquire Carlos Marmol by agreeing to take on Carlos Zambrano’s contract and volatile personality.
That would seem to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
ID,
So you assume Jeter, Posada, Tex and Arod will all revert to their career norms next year?
I hope you’re right. For real.
I guess I’m factoring in age in some of my reasoning for worrying about bounce back.
In Grandy’s case I’m not as worried because he’s young, he worked well with Long at the end of the season and it will be the 2nd year in pinstripes so he’ll have a comfort level here he didn’t previously.
As for Posada projecting to be a good DH in the league, I guess I’m comparing him to what’s out there in Vlad who I would love to take a chance on as DH. I”m also concerned about Jorge not embracing the new role full time.
That said, I don’t think the team is a 3rd place team in the division. I do think they need improvement in the rotation, pen and on the bench before heading to spring training.
If it means getting Marmol, it would be worth the risk.
Jeter would be the biggest concern. Arod just seems like a guy who could fall asleep and produce.
I really hope that Cash doesn’t panic and let some gm take advantage of him. Like gm’s always want to do. I was extremely surprised and not happy that he was willing to trade Montero for 3 months of Lee so who knows what Cashman would do. He has to trade for a starting pitcher but he better not trade one of the B’s or Montero for someone not elite. No one elite is available so I don’t expect those guys to be traded.
Mstarr116,
Was he hurt when he didn’t start hitting until June? Do most guys making 20 plus million a year take until June to start hitting?
“Are you telling me that the RedSox + A-Gon + Crawford – Beltre – VMart + same old pitching = 8 wins?”
In 2008, Sox fans were using the same argument to us. Tex/CC/AJ – Abreu/Giambi/Mussina (who was our ace) would not make the Yankees better than Boston.
It doesn’t work that way. As it turns out, our position guys (Jeter, Cano, Damon, Matsui, Jorge) improved dramatically on their 2008 stats, we didn’t suffer any significant injuries outside of A-Rod for a month, etc. Can’t just take last year’s stats and apply them to the next year.
Everyone knows Tex is a slow starter. But he does other things for the team. Let’s move on to holes the Yankees actually need to fill.
Good sign.
But this:
“Cervi’s got a leg up on that because he’s played at a high level for us”
You got to be kidding?
Wang returning to Nats on 1 year deal, CASH IS ASLEEP!! How does he not sign a 19 game winner
# Bret The Hitman December 16th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
re: Carlos Marmol
Maybe the Yankees are trying to acquire Carlos Marmol by agreeing to take on Carlos Zambrano’s contract and volatile personality.
That would seem to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
———————————————————————————-
get that done…hello WS
Cash is sitting on Hal’s wallet……..It’s almost as if he wants to put together a team on the cheap to show people that he can do it.
No thanks to Zambrano or Marmol
Some redsox fans thought cc over moose wasn’t a change lol?
“I really hope that Cash doesn’t panic and let some gm take advantage of him. ”
I don’t think you have to worry about that. By the looks of it, Cash is content doing nothing aside from maybe a couple of reclamation projects. I wouldn’t worry about him making a trade. He isin’t aggressive.
You got to be kidding?
—
Haha what’s he supposed to say “Cervelli kind of sucks but he’s the best we’ve got!”
Betsy how do you know that? Should he overspend for relievers just to show impatient fans he is doing something? I really don’t think he should. As far as I know it’s the middle of December. We will see what happens.
I still don’t believe Montero will be traded………..Why would they trade him for anything other than a stud pitcher (who won’t be available)?
I’m not worried about the Sox at this point, but they are clearly the better team. They’ve improved their offense and their pen. Yes, they have questions at 3-5 in the rotation, but Dice K (as expensive as he is) is a good #5 and Lackey/Beckett likely to improve. I see no reason why Buchholz won’t be very good next year and Lester, of course, is great.
Right now, the Yanks have to hope and pray that their older guys bounce back offensively and that Tex decides not to take a vacation for 2 months of the year.
In 2008, Sox fans were using the same argument to us. Tex/CC/AJ – Abreu/Giambi/Mussina (who was our ace) would not make the Yankees better than Boston.
–
There were far more significant changes between the 08 yankees and the 09 yankees than what has taken place with the Red Sox.
BloggingBombers Kerry Wood reportedly signs w/Cubs for 1 yr, $1.5 million. Yankees official confirms the asking price to return to New York was much higher.
———-
I guess players will only come here if we overpay.
The price is always too high for the Yankees this year. They have all this Lee money and what are they doing with it?
Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
Wang returning to Nats on 1 year deal, CASH IS ASLEEP!! How does he not sign a 19 game winner
———————————–
Do you not remember how terrible Wang was in his last games here? He was worse than AJ OR Vazquez were this season, and hasn’t pitched in the majors since. That’s how he can manage to let him go.
G.Love – See that’s much better. You just gotta reign in the panic a little bit
I don’t necessarily think they will return to their previous glory… but I would never assume someone would continue to play so far below their career norms that it became their new ability. There is just no reason to believe that after 30-something years of playing baseball a player would suddenly “lose it” in one offseason.
I wouldn’t be too enamored with Vlad. He only hit at home for half of last season and when he did start hitting on the road, he significantly outperformed his career trends over the last few seasons. He’s far too inconsistent, and god… talk about old… to be relied on.
I am most excited about a healthy switch-hitting DH that doesn’t swing at pitches anywhere within 10 feet of home plate
Let’s see, so Nady asked for less from the Cubs and now Wood? Everyone wants to go to the Phillies or Sox for less, but the Yankees? Nope. I’m starting to wonder if there’s an underlying issue here. Do players not like the way the team is run? Do they not like NY?
There wasn’t to many better SP in baseball the last month of the 2010 reg season…Carlos Marmol has a great arm…
If Posada welcomes the role he could do well. He has a good eye and some pop. No workload of catching.
clown,
We’ll make the playoffs by default now that Tampa has been dismantled. The question is how good we’ll be and if we can match up with Boston. A lot of things have to go right for that to happen, as G. Love pointed out, the big money players on offense have to revert back to their 2009 forms and Hughes/Burnett have to take steps forward, Andy has to stay healthy, Joba/Robertson need to be able to hold down the fort, etc. Lots of questions. Doesn’t seem like Cashman is intent on turning any of them into answers this winter, barring a big trade.
Outside of Lee and Werth/Crawford, this just wasn’t a great free agent market. Don’t know what ya’ll expect Cash to do.
Carlos Marmol … Carlos Zambrano = a WS ring in 2011
Irreverent Discourse,
There you go again. Yes those Boston additions are better than the subtractions. Plus you forgot about all the injuries they had. That’s easily 8 wins.
And the way Cashman has failed (so far) to improve his aging team probably means they won’t need to be 8 wins better to pass the Yankees.
I think it’s quite possible some players didn’t like the way Derek Jeter was treated. Not the money as much as what the four clowns in suits said about him.
Who cares if Wood went to the Cubs? The White Sox offered him $3.5 mill and he turned them down. I doubt Cashman made an offer to Wood, nor should he. TOo injury prone and his performance last year was a fluke.
“I guess players will only come here if we overpay”
More puzzling is agreeing to be underpaid to play for the Cubs. The Cubs!!!!
Kerry wood signs for 1.5 million for 1 year. Amazing that you have to go back over 10 years to find the last time a Yankee gave them a hometown discount
The question is how good we’ll be and if we can match up with Boston. A lot of things have to go right for that to happen
–
Don’t a lot of things have to go right for Boston to be any good? Like Beckett, Lackey, Matsuzaka, and Wakefield improving? Youkilis staying healthy (which he never has)? Ortiz and Drew posting good years while getting super old and never being the kind of elite players that figure to age well? Dealing with the worst catching tandem in the league?
All the hyperbole about Cashman is completely moronic.
If he doesn’t have his 25 roster put together by Nov 2nd (the day after free agency begins), the whiners complain he’s not doing anything.
People just don’t understand the meaning of patience.
“Let’s see, so Nady asked for less from the Cubs and now Wood? Everyone wants to go to the Phillies or Sox for less, but the Yankees? Nope. I’m starting to wonder if there’s an underlying issue here. Do players not like the way the team is run? Do they not like NY?”
It sucks for us as Yankees fans – it it sucks for the Yankees – but there is a “Yankee tax” that applies whether you’re talking trades or FA signings. The whole world knows the Yankees have the most money and are willing to spend it. It’s just the way it is. Don’t expect the Yanks to get many discounts – even from players who really want to play in NY.
West Coast Yankee Fan,
Yet the Sox treat their players like garbage and players are still flocking there
Betsy – There is no reason to believe that Wood went to Chicago with a better offer on the table from the Yankees. You honestly think he took 1-year $1.5mil from the Cubs if there was even an inkling of chance the Yankees would retain him?
Some guys, like Lee showed, just want to pitch in the NL. it’s a much easier league, your numbers look better, earning you more money… and its the easier road to the WS (well, it was before this philly monstrosity).
Carlos Marmol … Carlos Zambrano & Manny..lets go
I agree Giuseppe Franco
Posada doesn’t get on base or hit for a high enough average to be a quality DH. Tex looks like late era Giambi either walking, HR’ing or smashing into the shift.
///Jorge Posada has a career .377 OBP. I believe .357 last season was a career low.Among qualified DHs for 2010, Posada would have had the fourth highest were he the DH,and I suspect it would have been much higher had he actually had a healthy season and wasn’t catching.As it was, he was a catcher.Now why would we assume his on base wouldn’t get better,in a season he won’t be distracted and worn down by catching regularly?I can see maybe worrying about slugging,but he knows how to get on base.I’m not worried about his power, actually,either. I bet he has a fierce yr at the plate.This fan base constantly undermines this guy’s hitting talents.
Maybe Cashman is on Christmas break already. Can anyone confirm that he is at work in his office??!?!?!
Jerkface,
You’re right in some respects. The market wasn’t abundant. But there were players who are off the board who could have helped solidify some of the question marks we have here.
I’m a little more ticked off at Cashman for not dealing for Lilly last season before the Dodgers got him. We needed a starter at that point and he could have been kept for this season like he was in Los Angeles.
That’s the outside the box thinking I’m referring to. Getting Lilly or Haren a year in advance of when the problem was going to become bigger would have show some foresight I think the team is lacking right now.
I mean, we all knew at the trade deadline that AJ was awful, Vasquez was awful, Andy was injured and there were potentially 2 holes in next seasons rotation that would be need to be filled.
I would have loved to see a move that wasn’t just about 2010 but about 2011 and beyond made in the season last year.
Now, at this point, nobody is sellers. Everyone is buyers except for a select few so trading for someone costs much more.
That’s what I would have liked to see from the front office. Now we’re in the position of waiting for teams to become sellers again next season.
BloggingBombers Kerry Wood reportedly signs w/Cubs for 1 yr, $1.5 million. Yankees official confirms the asking price to return to New York was much higher.
———-
I guess players will only come here if we overpay.
=============================================
Bingo!!! You’ve just hit the jackpot!!!
It might be a good idea for the Yankees to be a bit more frugal for a season or two. It might send a message to the MLB Players Union and to some of the agents. There is no reason for the Yankees to be forced to play Santa Claus for every other owner and the players/agents.
Getting Lilly or Haren
–
Lilly, no. Haren, yes! But the Yankees were in on Haren, and they did not have a Joe Saunders to give to the D-Backs. By all accounts, the acting GM at the time was a moron. Cashman tried but could not pull it off.
I would have loved having Haren dealt here, but it takes two to tango.
if Kevin Towers were GM at the time, I bet Haren is a Yankee. Or still on the Dbacks
clownthrowindown – sigh…
Yes those Boston additions are better than the subtractions.
This is called “your uninformed opinion”. Real analysis of the situation shows a very marginal improvement to the team through those 2 players.
They didn’t fall 8 games behind the Yankee’s last season because of their offense. Their pitching and injuries did them in all year. Are they any less likely to get injured this year? Youkilis never stays healthy and is now playing a higher impact position. Ortiz and Drew are ancient and they have the worst catchers in baseball. Beckett is going to regain his fastball (lol… practically impossible)? Matsuzaka is as inconsistant as it gets, and mostly just awful…
Do you have any idea how much effort it takes to make up 8 wins? Thats an 80 run improvement in value based metrics. 80 runs is insane. To put it in perspective, Gonzalez and Crawford would at best be worth just under 20 runs. So the rest of the team is going to improve by 60 runs?
Sorry, but saying Boston is “much better” is just not true.
A couple of points –
1. Martin said all the right things, and then some. You don’t like Cash, fine, but a lot of people think a lot of Billy Eppler, who runs the scouting staff. If they think Martin still has good baseball in the tank, then you have to be somewhat optimistic. Heck, even the geniuses in Boston were in on him.
2. GLove, you’re a respected poster here, but I have to say I think you’re way too pessismistic on Tex. The guy was very badly banged up for the second half of the year. If you feel you can’t bank on players bouncing back – Tex, Jeter, Alex – then what about Boston and Beckett, Lackey, Drew, Ellsbury, Pedroia and his broken foot…., and Tampa who lost their entire bullpen?
3. I really don’t see the starting rotation as a mess. How many other teams would love CC and Hughes? That’s not enough? How about adding Pettitte, once he gets his dollar amount which he apparently alluded to (don’t lowball)? And why, why, do we automatically assume that AJ is going to replicate the worst season of his life? I think a lot of ML teams have a lot worse problems.
Nobody gets an award for having the perceived best off season. Let’s not get down. Heck, the Yanks were one of four teams left standing. Let’s look forward to ST. Only two more months.
I was against the Zambrano deal. But for some reason it might be worth it.
ID, that’s the point – the Yankees didn’t show much interest in retaining Wood at all. Disappointing.
As for Posada projecting to be a good DH in the league, I guess I’m comparing him to what’s out there in Vlad who I would love to take a chance on as DH.
.///Just FTR,Vlad had a .345 OBP in 2010.
Jenks sucks, he’s more erratic than Joba …….
My blood is boiling right now.
The crawler on the MLB Network says that Cubs and Kerry Wood agreed in a 1 year $5 miliion dollar contract. Thats significantly more than what was orignially reported on this forum.
The Yankees should have shown more interest in Wood.
Posada: “You can’t teach lack of speed.”
Betsy – The point is that you assume that is due to some inaction by the Yankee’s. Maybe, just maybe… they know something you don’t and don’t think Wood is worth an offer?
Jenks had a 2.62 xFIP last year. He was primed for a bounce back year.
# Sweet Swinging Cano December 16th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
I was against the Zambrano deal. But for some reason it might be worth it.
————————————
get that RP also….138 k’s in 77 innings….lights out 8th inning guy (27 years old) closer when Mo leaves
Brian Cashman has ruined any chance for the Yankees to do well for the next two seasons in one off-season. Congrats.
Magglio (chance for Outfield)……gone
Kerry Wood (perfect set up man)……gone
Bobby Jenks (set up man)………gone
Scott Downs (lefty reliever)……gone
Cliff Lee (starter)………obviously, gone
Carl Crawford (great improvement over gardner)…..gone
Who did the Yankees get? .248 batting average catcher Russell Martin to stop the progression of Jesus Montero and a POSSIBILITY of oldy Pedro Feliciano that will come in for 2 batters a game (maybe). WOW, great improvements. On top of that, lets call on the medical records for Freddy Garcia who’s prime is long gone.
Yankees will NOT make the playoffs next year if they don’t make a big move. With this team, i would be surprised if they even make second in the division (and the Wild Card probably wont even come out of the east this year).
Job Well done Cashman
EA – By that logic, so is Joba.
Joe, CC is great, but you’re really counting on Phil to improve big time……..He has to, but given that he had huge innings workload this year and his breaking pitches are mediocre to bad, that’s a wait and see for me. AJ? I have no idea what he’ll do……….Just because he may not be as bad as 2010 doesn’t mean he’ll be good. Andy? IF he comes back, will he be the 2010 Andy? He is 39……….will he give us close to 200 innings? It’s fine to be optimistic, but there are reasons to be concerned.
Say the Yankees sign Feliciano, I still think they need one more reliever. Soriano would be pricey. For once can a player take less to play for us? What a bad gig it would be to setup the best closer in history.
Where is the wild card coming from?
I think Cashman is going to try and prove that he can win with a payroll right around the same as Boston’s and he doesn’t need to spend every bit of the $200 or so that he has available in order to be a good team.
# Nick in SF December 16th, 2010 at 5:54 pm
Posada: “You can’t teach lack of speed.”
————————————————————–
as bad as a base runner you can get
Drivenbyjeter2 – I hope you didn’t waste too much brain power on that post.
The Good Doctor from Long Island has prescribed some sound medicine……
ID, they don’t think anyone is worth an offer. Everyone is too rich for their blood……….. The idea is not to make stupid moves or bad trades, and to bulk up the pen. How have they done that? What are they doing with the Lee $$?
THIS JUST IN!!!
Obama just signed a bill that will eliminate April and give May an extra 30 days. Easter will be moved to March for people with anxiety issues.
In a conference call with the oval office, Teixierra was elated and made it known that he is excited for the start of the season. “61 homeruns within reach”.
Igawa will wear a Bunny suit with shades on in spring training appearances. Not to be mistaken for an Pedrioa/Elf suit.
How does Lee even qualify? They made him a great offer and he chose Philly. The Yankees never needed Crawford. As for the other guys we really don’t know what went on behind the scenes. It is easy to say he failed. But lets see how the rest of the offseason shakes out.
# Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
Where is the wild card coming from?
—————
The Orioles, of course!
What are they doing with the Lee $$?
–
They could keep it in their back pocket and make a deadline splash.
# Pat M. December 16th, 2010 at 5:57 pm
The Good Doctor from Long Island has prescribed some sound medicine……
————
Yes, he did. Sadly, though, most of the patients don’t want to take that medicine.
Wild Card will be one of Detroit/Chi Sox, Texas/Angels, and the Yankees. If the Rays hang onto Garza, they too will be a factor if they can get some production from their lineup, their pitching is sick. Toronto is a big darkhorse as well… need a few things to go right though.
Yankees should just sign everyone and grossly overpay. Cashman would look like a pure genius!
Bret The Hitman December 16th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
re: Carlos Marmol
Maybe the Yankees are trying to acquire Carlos Marmol by agreeing to take on Carlos Zambrano’s contract and volatile personality.
That would seem to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ahhhh….. yes ! Music to my ears. Let’s see if Larry Rothschild becomes the difference maker for the deal.
Re: Carlos Zambrano
The Lee money is obviously earmarked for Zambrano. He’s the only pricey starter with upside whose team is looking to unload him.
Posada: “You can’t teach lack of speed.”
==========
In other news. The Molina Brothers are opening up a spring camp for lack of speed training. Dont want to spoil all the fun but quick sand will be part of the opstical course and running with bags of dimes in your back pocket. Catchers are welcomed.
Jerkface, they could, but (a) there’s still 1/2 season they need to get through before then and (b) who’s to say who will be available? Maybe no one of particular interest to them.
# 108 stitches December 16th, 2010 at 6:00 pm
Bret The Hitman December 16th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
re: Carlos Marmol
Maybe the Yankees are trying to acquire Carlos Marmol by agreeing to take on Carlos Zambrano’s contract and volatile personality.
That would seem to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ahhhh….. yes ! Music to my ears. Let’s see if Larry Rothschild becomes the difference maker for the deal.
—————————————————————————–
that would be sweet
Betsy – they don’t think anyone is worth an offer
Did it cross your mind that they might be right? The fact that they continually place a winning product on the field every year gives them a bit more credibility than your or my random pinions.
If they deem someone not worth it, I don’t sit here and go “well I know better, obviously the yankees are idiots”.
Why do they have to spend the lee money? Just because it’s there?
This is you… “OMG I have an extra $10, I better go buy something that’s not worth $10!”.
That doesn’t sound insane to you?
Wood had a great stint in NY. But 26 innings of dominance is not enough to warrant overpaying him. Walks are still an issue. High likelihood he doesn’t pitch 70 innings like he pitched the 26 here.
Besides, he wanted to go to the Cubs. Apparently he was asking for a premium to come back to NYY and he turned down 3.5M to go to ChiSox.
Just wasn’t going to happen given these parameters.
# Bret The Hitman December 16th, 2010 at 6:00 pm
Re: Carlos Zambrano
The Lee money is obviously earmarked for Zambrano. He’s the only pricey starter with upside whose team is looking to unload him.
————————————————–
now your getting me excited
“Yankees should just sign everyone and grossly overpay. Cashman would look like a pure genius!”
He should. That’s what the Yankees are. Why change now? Certainly, their competitors are doing that.
Betsy – “Maybe no one of particular interest to them.” There doesn’t appear to be anyone like that now, but you can’t accept that either.
“Which team played in the ALCS?
Which team went golfing?”
Theo snatched up all the good tee times… while Cashman slept.
Ya, they never NEEDED crawford, but it would have made our lineup a LOT better!! and taken away that great bat from the Red Sox.
And I say it comes from the Central.
The Tigers and White Sox have really good teams now, and the Twins are always in the running.
Rays lost a lot of good players — we didnt get any better. We might get worse if pettite doesnt come back.
Well this isn’t the offseason to do that.
We will see what happens DrivenbyJeter. Gotta see what team the Yanks go into spring with.
What deadline splash will cost $23 million dollars? Even if we signed a couple of relievers, we’d have more than enough for a starter.
Besides, most of the guys we would be targeting would be young guys with fairly inexpensive contracts… we’re not gong after someone like Barry Zito who will take up a chunk of our payroll.
# Giuseppe Franco December 16th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
All the hyperbole about Cashman is completely moronic.
If he doesn’t have his 25 roster put together by Nov 2nd (the day after free agency begins), the whiners complain he’s not doing anything.”
—————————————–
this would’ve been true 2 weeks ago. Except now, every useful player is going off the board. How is Cashman going to improve the team in 2011? By gutting the farm system? If Cashman is planning for 2011 to be a ‘rebuilding’ year, i am fine with it. But he needs to convey these plans via the media.
Jerkface, they could, but (a) there’s still 1/2 season they need to get through before then and (b) who’s to say who will be available? Maybe no one of particular interest to them.
–
Right, but you can’t just spend money to spend it. Outside of Lee there was no one on the free agent market that was interesting for the Yankees. All the relievers were either Type-A’s or got handed stupid contracts. If Cashman is analyzing the situation, and decides he’d rather save the money for a trade (maybe one he is even working on right now) then he shouldn’t spend it on whatever.
Fans want whomever is available, regardless of cost and position. Cashman can’t operate like that.
Its why people suggesting Crawford or Werth were going to be signed weren’t thinking straight.
ID, ok……..you make good points.
Drivenbyjeter2 – The tigers and whitesox have pitching staffs and full lineups now? gee, i bet they’ll be excited to find that out. Does it hurt to be so totally disconnected with reality?
It amazes me how stupid the people on this forum have become. This used to be one of the best if not the best forums for yankee baseball because there was smart well thought out discussion. Now you guys are just a bunch of whiners who can’t judge talent at all and just panic before taking a step back to see how things will actually turn out. Calling Teixeira Giambi is absolutely moronic. Instantly making players who sign with other teams better is moronic. Yes the Red Sox have improved there team but not as dramatically as you guys make it out to be and this Yankee team is not the Kansas City Royals no matter how much you guys think they are. This is still a very good baseball team, the lineup is outstanding. The rotation as it stand is questionable but its not a finished product.
The 3 things you can take to the bank year in and year out.
Boston Red Sox are offseason champs
Tampa Bay is pre season champs
Yankees are World Champs
Joe From LI,
It’s not Tex’s 2nd half that has me concerned about him. It’s his first half.
I’m legitimately concerned about the team. I would have liked to see some additions. Not all type A free agent additions. Just some solid pieces.
A guy like Scott Downs would have made me feel much different about the pen. Retaining Wood or taking the shot on Jenks would have done the same thing.
Players, not stars, players are coming off the board who could have filled some of the cracks this team has shown.
That said, I know the Yankees won’t stand pat. I’m just concerned what the price will be in talent when they find their fit. For the first time in a long time I’m excited to see what Montero turns into. I love having a prospect who is compared to Frank Thomas in our organization.
I’m right to be concerned that when Cashman finds the player he wants to trade for Montero is going to be the centerpiece and I don’t want to see him thrive on another team.
I’m not panicking here. I’m concerned about the team.
I’ll say this about the Red Sox, they never play well with targets on their backs. I don’t expect them to run away with it next year. I think their batting order is 4 deep. Relying on Ortiz, Drew, their cathcers, etc. to be monsters offensively is a recipe for disaster.
I don’t care about them until we play them. What I do care about is the hole in the bullpen and the 2 holes in the rotation today.
Jerkface, I agree with your points, but it’s a little frustrating as I assumed they were going to move on to shoring up the pen (since doing the same with the rotation isn’t really an option at this point).
This Big Z thing intrigues me more lol
as of Dec 14 odds to win 2011 WS….don’t mean much but if I were a betting man
* Phillies 7/2
* Red Sox 5/1
* Yankees 6/1
* Giants 12/1
* Cardinals 18/1
* Twins 18/1
* Braves 20/1
* Reds 20/1
* Rockies 20/1
* Rays 20/1
* Rangers 20/1
Buster_ESPN
Heard this: Yankees are not in on the bidding on Rafael Soriano
Well, that pipedream was nice while it lasted… we should have known he was too expensive for Cashman… like seemingly everyone is now.
Doesn’t he want closer money?
It’s too bad that we lost Kerry Wood. But it’s not Cashman’s fault that Wood wanted to go back to his favorite organization, the one that signed him. He was never really available to the Yankees to sign.
I just got home from work and feel a sense of panic because the Red $ox signed Bobby Jenks. The same Bobby Jenks who’s ERA equaled his weight at season’s end…444.
I am glad to see Jenks go to Bo$ton. They are desperate for bullpen help and Jenks is no solution. This is a guy that was non-tendered after the White Sox gave up trying to control his bad health habits. It’s actually gonna be pretty funny seeing him filling out that white home uniform of the $ox.
Too expensive for Hal not Cashman.
The past years we signed guys like Farnsworth, Hawkins, Park, Marte. How did that work out? Since Girardi took over, the pen has been in pretty good shape no? I don’t really worry about the bullpen, that will take care of itself. They’ll find guys who can make it work.
Come on Cash lets make a big splash here, a big stocking stuffer
re: Carlos Marmol for EIG and Lee $$ for Zambrano
I tweeted my proposal to the NY Daily News (Mark Feinsand)
http://twitter.com/NYYrumors/s.....2566631424
# vinny-b December 16th, 2010 at 6:05 pm
# Giuseppe Franco December 16th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
All the hyperbole about Cashman is completely moronic.
If he doesn’t have his 25 roster put together by Nov 2nd (the day after free agency begins), the whiners complain he’s not doing anything.”
—————————————–
this would’ve been true 2 weeks ago. Except now, every useful player is going off the board. How is Cashman going to improve the team in 2011? By gutting the farm system? If Cashman is planning for 2011 to be a ‘rebuilding’ year, i am fine with it. But he needs to convey these plans via the media.
————
They don’t have to make every move via free agency. They built their minor league system full of young arms and catchers for a reason – they are invaluable trade chips when the Yanks need to go that route. They are the two hardest positions in the game to develop.
I’m not saying they have to, or need to, trade all of their chips away. But they’ve accumulated these kids for a reason. They all can’t play with the big club.
I worry about the rotation more then the pen.
The Twins at 18/1 without Pavano? That’s way too high.
I would take the cardinals at 18/1, I don’t think any of those other lines are good bets.
“Outside of Lee and Werth/Crawford, this just wasn’t a great free agent market. Don’t know what ya’ll expect Cash to do.”
You need to broaden your perspective. You can’t look at it in such simple terms. Its not about what’s available now, it involves planning in prior years. Cashman parked Gardner in LF waiting to get Crawford this year. And he figured he would sign Lee. For whatever reasons, those things didn’t come to fruition. He signed Posada for an extra year, spent big on CC/AJ/Tex. Some of it was wise, some wasn’t. Some of it was bad luck (Wang). But if you only look at the coming season, spend every available dollar, lock in players in bad contracts and then miss out on your two targets, you wind up with few options. And there’s no telling what trades he could have made. The bottom line is that every move has a future impact and Cashman has not played it well.
they have the closer but the need is there for a 8th inning lock down RP,it sets everything up…
Oh yeah, and Cashman would NEVER tell the media that this season is going to be a “rebuilding year.”
Not good for ticket sales and this team is a playoff contender every season.
I see no reason why they can’t do the same in 2011.
I would take the cardinals at 18/1………………..that was what I saw right away
# Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 5:01 pm
Absurdity at its finest.
If the Yankee’s go all out in the FA market, people complain they spend too much money/should develop more players in house.
If the Yankee’s don’t get involved in a FA market that has only overpaid every single player that signed so far, people complain.
So do you want the Yankee’s to trust their system and spend money when it is appropriate or do you want them to constantly overpay for Free agents?
You can’t have it both ways.
——————————————–
in other words, if i was against giving a 33 year old Cliff Lee 7/151 million (which i was). I can’t be in favor of signing a Bobby Jenks, Kerry Wood, or Rafael Soriano for a total of 10-25 million?
you make as much sense as the Yankees.
Soriano is going to be asking Mariano closer type money. But if Bobby Jenks is worth $12mil for 2 years , the price of a set up man just skyrocketed. $12mil/yr may be where the market is for Soriano.
Cashman parked Gardner in LF waiting to get Crawford this year.
—
How do you know this? Perhaps that was the plan but then Gardner basically out performing Crawford at 1/50th of the salary changed his stance on it. How do you know Cash isn’t planning for the future *right now*?
We have a not-old core of players: Gardner, Granderson, Swisher, Cano, Tex
We have solid veterans who are generational talents: A-rod, Jeter, Rivera
We have very good veterans: Posada, Pettitte (assuming he returns)
We have young pitching: Hughes, Robertson, Joba, Logan, with more on the way
We have an ace in his prime: CC
What more do you want from Cash????
Bret The Hitman December 16th, 2010 at 6:12 pm
re: Carlos Marmol for EIG and Lee $$ for Zambrano
I tweeted my proposal to the NY Daily News (Mark Feinsand)
———————————————————————
go into the FO with that tweet
Soriano was an elite closer on the AL East champs, had multiple dominant seasons in Seattle and Atlanta as well.
Not even comparable to Farnsworth, Hawkins, Park etc. none of whom demonstrated prolonged success in the AL.
Even Jenks was a closer in a big market AL team with a crazy manager, and pitched in pressure World Series games as a rookie closer.
The pedigrees of Soriano and Jenks are vastly different than those other guys.
“Cashman would NEVER tell the media that this season is going to be a “rebuilding year.””
Could you imagine the repercussions if he even hinted at something like that? LOL
Drive,
The market for set up men has sky rocketed. It appears Cashman wants to sit it out at these prices. It remains to be seen if it’s wise to think like that.
vinny-b – If you couldn’t buy a one of a kind Ferarri for $50k because someone else bought it, would you make up for that by overpaying on some Civics?
Overpaying relievers is not how you build a bullpen. Show me one team in the history of baseball that has done that and it worked.
I’m shocked at some of the posts and posters here. It’s as if we’re the Baltimore Orioles with no chance at a post-season.
The NY Yankees have a starting lineup that most teams would kill for in terms of proven talent. And last year several key players underperformed, and we still scored more runs than any other team.
Cashman has a stocked system ready to fill holes – so that we DON’T have to overspend and sign too many FA.
The bullpen will be fine. It has to be at it’s zenith for the playoffs, not opening day. Cashman will probably add Feliciano and possibly another lefty (Fuentes?), and we’ll be fine.
Calm down.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....ear-deals/
This was already posted but it should be required reading.
I’d welcome Zambrano if the cost was right……
I wonder how much it would cost to get
Sturtze for the 6th
Proctor the 7th
Flash Gordon 8th
Hmmm??
wake me up when the Big Z gets here
Put me on the list of folks that says its time for the Yankees to aggressively shop their biggest trade chip, Jesus Montero.
Its time for New York to put together a studly package of prospects and bring in a quality, dominant starter.
WHo though?!
2008: This team needs to get younger and more athletic! Cashman needs to rebuild the farm! The last thing this team needs is more bloated long term contracts. Or else we’re doomed!
2010: Cashman needs to sign somebody to a bloated long term contract or else were doomed! Trade the prospects!
# joeman December 16th, 2010 at 6:19 pm
wake me up when the Big Z gets here
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You’ll be sleeping the rest of your life then. Good.
Look at it this way, you are paying 15 mil for the 9th, how much is the 8th worth? How much is 2 out in the 7th with runners in scoring position worth?
Oh i forgot to add!! Torre as the bullpen coach.
Tom in NJ – Nice
NEW YORK (AP) – Mariano Rivera admitted the unthinkable had been a possibility. The Boston Red Sox offered him a chance to turn in his pinstripes and switch sides in baseball’s fiercest rivalry.
“It was real. It was real,” he said Thursday.
While Boston made an offer to the great closer, Rivera accepted a $30 million, two-year contract from the Yankees, the only major league team for which he’s ever played.
While Rivera didn’t want to leave New York, he was happy to hear from the Red Sox.
“I thanked them, because they took me into consideration,” he said. “This is business and the Yankees did the right thing, and I’m here.” Rivera said negotiations never reached the stage of a dialogue with Boston and he never envisioned himself in a Red Sox uniform.
“It definitely would have been different,” he said. “I don’t think the Yankees would allow that to happen. I just had to make sure I had a job, and the Yankees did that.”
Look at it this way, you are paying 15 mil for the 9th, how much is the 8th worth? How much is 2 out in the 7th with runners in scoring position worth?
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Now how much can you save by having the job done 90% as effectively for 10% of the price?
“Cashman would NEVER tell the media that this season is going to be a “rebuilding year.”
Based off his actions, unless he makes a big trade, it is logical to assume that 2011 will be just that.
They felt they needed Lee badly enough to sign him until he was 39. They’ve been targeting him for over a year, tried 3 different occasions to get him, and offered their best prospect for 2 months of him. So obviously, even they were not comfortable with their current rotation.
I guess it is another year of riding CC like a rented mule… with not much reliability behind him (and they are not going to push Andy hard in games) and a bullpen that lost its best SU reliever… it looks like CC has to carry us again.
Wonder if cash is wishing he would have pushed a little harder for Haren last summer.
I don’t see his the Cubs coukd ask for much other than salary relief for Zambrano.
“2008: This team needs to get younger and more athletic! Cashman needs to rebuild the farm! The last thing this team needs is more bloated long term contracts. Or else we’re doomed!
2010: Cashman needs to sign somebody to a bloated long term contract or else were doomed! Trade the prospects!”
But after 2008, isin’t that exactly what Cashman did? Spend $450 million and sign 3 guys to long-term deals.
If closers were utilized properly (i.e. when the game is on the line, not in the 9th inning) this conversation would be moot.
“closer money” is exactly why they invented the “save”.
paying someone that money upfront is stupid.
# Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
vinny-b – If you couldn’t buy a one of a kind Ferarri for $50k because someone else bought it, would you make up for that by overpaying on some Civics?
Overpaying relievers is not how you build a bullpen. Show me one team in the history of baseball that has done that and it worked.
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I’m not talking about “building a bullpen”. Building/buying a bullpen is what Cashman attempted to do in the post-Dynasty Torre years. We both know that doesn’t work. Instead, i am talking about signing 1 player for the bullpen. A premiere reliever, to be a set-up man. A far cry from what you’ve stated above.
tank – i wouldn’t call those contracts bloated. They were not already overpriced when they were signed like this years contracts.
“Wonder if cash is wishing he would have pushed a little harder for Haren last summer.”
Absolutely. I think the reason he wasn’t as aggressive was because he had his sights set on Lee and wasn’t that desperate for a starter and perhaps didn’t have the payroll space for Haren AND Lee.
As we know now… Lee was far from a lock.
Re: Carlos Zambrano
If the Yankees re-sign Pettitte (which they will) then Zambrano would be replacing Javier Vazquez from last year’s rotation.
That’s the only difference and I will consider the rotation upgraded.
If Cash can swing Marmol for package centered on Joba (agreeing to take on Zambrano and his contract in the deal) then I will consider the bullpen upgraded as well. Feliciano over Marte is also an upgrade since Marte didn’t pitch in 2010.
Then you have Jesus Montero and the Killer B’s if you want to upgrade the offense. You can wait and see what happens at the deadline.
Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 6:23 pm
Look at it this way, you are paying 15 mil for the 9th, how much is the 8th worth? How much is 2 out in the 7th with runners in scoring position worth?
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Now how much can you save by having the job done 90% as effectively for 10% of the price?
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Can they?
How good was it to have Mariano-Wetteland? Of course, Mariano was cheap then, but do you think you can get another Mariano?
Maybe people should go look at Soriano’s numbers last year again.
That said, there is a limit to what he is worth…
Marmol is not going anywhere. Just like Upton. he makes no money, and he performs at a high level. Why would the cubs want to trade away their closer for a worse reliever? Just to dump Zambrano’s salary? lol.
Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 6:05 pm
Drivenbyjeter2 – The tigers and whitesox have pitching staffs and full lineups now? gee, i bet they’ll be excited to find that out. Does it hurt to be so totally disconnected with reality?
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I wouldnt know, but how about you tell me how it feels so i dont have to go through that pain?!
Both teams have 1-4 starters that are really good, and lineups that were already good, and now well improved.
White Sox got Adam Dunn and resigned Konerko and AJ
Tigers got Victor Martinez, Benoit, and Valverde
Pretty good team…
ANd “MAD PRINCE IN PINSTRIPES” I totally agree with you. It’s time to use Montero being a big prospect to our advantage. HOWEVER, I only trade him away from Felix Hernendez, Greinke (Possibly, maybe replace with Austin Romine), or Josh Johnson. Those 3 are the only 3 pitchers worth of giving him up for that could possibly be traded.
Maybe people should go look at Soriano’s numbers last year again.
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He was really good last year, but his velocity is declining and he is injury prone. Look at what Boone Logan did for the Yankees at 1/20th the price.
Listening and reading about Bob Feller today….what an interesting and great man. Baseball has lost a lot of greats recently.
Tom in N.J. December 16th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
2008: This team needs to get younger and more athletic! Cashman needs to rebuild the farm! The last thing this team needs is more bloated long term contracts. Or else we’re doomed!
2010: Cashman needs to sign somebody to a bloated long term contract or else were doomed! Trade the prospects!
***********
Perfectly said
How good was it to have Mariano-Wetteland? Of course, Mariano was cheap then, but do you think you can get another Mariano?
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We can’t find out if we block all the future mariano’s with 10 million dollar setup men.
Mariano-Wetteland was ONE season. They won four more rings and six more pennants without that combo.
It’s not necessary to pay $10M+ for a guy to pitch the 8th inning.
Good grief.
You really can’t use Mariano Rivera in any discussion about reliever’s performance or pay. He is the outlier of outliers…you’re talking about one of baseball’s all-time greats and a true statistical aberration. He is to relief pitchers what Dimaggio’s hit streak is to hitters.
Remember, Cash did sign Brian Anderson, Andrew Cisco, Buddy Carslile, Neil Cotts, and Mark Prior. So he did address the bullpen. He brought in 5 quality arms and hope 1-2 of them can stick.
re Plan B might be Zambrano + Marmol + Martin
So you can upgrade the rotation (Javy to Zambrano) the bullpen (Joba to Marmol + Marte to Feliciano), upgrade the lineup (Cervelli to Martin + Nick Johnson to Posada), keep Montero, keep Betances, Banuelos and Brackman AND preserve your #1 pick in a talent rich draft by not signing any type A’s AND add 2 supplemental picks 1 each for Vazquez and Wood.
Talent doesn’t go away, but pitching does. We could use some of that real soon. Need Pettitte and an EIG, just to start with.
In the words of Cashman: “Pitching, pitching, pitching”. So where are we:
Signing Mark Prior on a minor league deal, with an invite to ST is fine. Low cost, high upside.
Claiming Robert Fish and Daniel Turpen just add 2 candidates for the pen for ST at no cost.
Signing lefties Andrew Sisco and Neal Cotts adds additional candidates for ST.
Signing former White Sox & Royals OF Brian Anderson is just another arm for the bullpen mix.
Do I hope he signs Feliciano? Sure. He’s proven that he’s durable and can be dominant against lefties – at least in the NL.
I’m also hoping they really consider adding a third lefty in Brian Fuentes, who can close, setup, or go multiple innings against righties and lefties. Alternatively, a trade for Sean Marshall could work, but he’s an effective and cost-controlled arm for the Cubs, so it’s not likely to happen.
Marmol? Sure, but why would the Cubbies trade their closer, unless they really thought that Kerry Wood is no longer the fragile Kerry Wood of his entire career.
Carlos Zambrano? I pass, but if it’s only a salary dump and it includes Marmol then I’d do it.
Bret,
Only problem is that the Cubs aren’t going to trade Marmol just so they can dump Zambranos salary.
re: Marmol
Blake,
True, but since the Yankees have the financial muscle to absorb Zambrano’s 36 million dollar tag, Montero and all 3 killer B’s would be safe in that deal.
Posted earlier but worth a repost: RAB had a good article on Zambrano.
1) He’s not that good
2) He’s overpaid
3) He’s insane
Explanations in the article:
http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....mor-40039/
# Yank 97 December 16th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Remember, Cash did sign Brian Anderson, Andrew Cisco, Buddy Carslile, Neil Cotts, and Mark Prior. So he did address the bullpen. He brought in 5 quality arms and hope 1-2 of them can stick.
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something like throwing crap against the wall and hoping something will stick..
Does Mo’s comments about possibly going to the Sux not bother anyone but me. I mean the guy is chosen along with Jeter to represent the whole club as a whole. Going to the hated rival should never have been given a thought.
Am I over reacting to the interview that I saw with him and Sweeny on MLB Network or not?
Giuseppe Franco December 16th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Mariano-Wetteland was ONE season. They won four more rings and six more pennants without that combo.
It’s not necessary to pay $10M+ for a guy to pitch the 8th inning.
Good grief.
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People say that, but have no problem paying $15mil for the 9th. That’s illogical. Yes, Mo is great, but the 9th is not really *that* much more important than the 8th, and sometimes the situations for middle relievers are actually tougher.
I really hope Pettitte comes back. Beyond the fact that he’s desperately needed, he’s one of the few Yankee arms who’s economical and efficient. Watching Hughes, Burnett or Joba throw 20+ pitches every inning is painful.
something like throwing crap against the wall and hoping something will stick..
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Yes, like boston, who signed:
Bobby Jenks, Matt Albers, Andrew Miller, Jason Bergmann and Brandon Duckworth.
And lost Hideki Okajima.
Really Impressive (sarcasm).
Remember, Cash did sign Brian Anderson, Andrew Cisco, Buddy Carslile, Neil Cotts, and Mark Prior. So he did address the bullpen. He brought in 5 quality arms and hope 1-2 of them can stick.
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something like throwing crap against the wall and hoping something will stick..
Those guys are all Scranton fillers except maybe Prior. For better or for worse, looks like the pen is going to be Joba/Robertson as the EIG.
Hopedevil……Yeah I read that piece and as typical with these want to be a sports writer and or a frustrated little leaguer who played right field for 2 innings, he failed to come up with a viable solution to the hole in the rotation…….If anyone took time to watch Zambrano pitch after he returned from his Lobotomy, the guy can pitch and pitch quite well……..It’s very easy to knock options and suggestions, however it’s quite difficult to arrive with answers…….Idiot
Young: “Rust never sleeps.”
Maybe Cashman is saying to the agents: “We’ll pay market value, nothing more, and perhaps a premium if we really want you.”
This is a new way of business for the Yankees. No $175 x 7 to Cliff Lee. No $6 x 2 to Bobby Jenks. No $7 x 1 to Kerry Wood.
They’ll spend the money when they see value in it. But overpayment is not going to happen.
Stocked farm. $35 million less payroll than last year. Let’s see where this goes.
“I really hope Pettitte comes back. Beyond the fact that he’s desperately needed, he’s one of the few Yankee arms who’s economical and efficient. Watching Hughes, Burnett or Joba throw 20+ pitches every inning is painful.”
Yes but remember, he missed 1\3rd of the season last year. He also experienced back trouble in the ALCS and Joe said he might not have even been able to make a game 7 start if we needed it because he was in such pain.
He is far from a sure thing to stay healthy. Whoever our 6th starter is, should be expected to pitch a lot. Combine that with Nova and Burnett… and the rotation is far from solid. As others have said… there is a reason why the Yankees were willing to go to such great lengths (7 yrs to a 32 yr old pitcher) to get Lee. They knew their rotation was suspect and they needed him.
Pettitte should be treated as an x-factor at his age, not a guy who is going to pitch 200 innings.
Zombrano is better than most of the options out there
Guy has a fiery personality and won’t be afraid of NY. Has had playoff success too.
“Hopedevil……Yeah I read that piece and as typical with these want to be a sports writer and or a frustrated little leaguer who played right field for 2 innings, he failed to come up with a viable solution to the hole in the rotation…….If anyone took time to watch Zambrano pitch after he returned from his Lobotomy, the guy can pitch and pitch quite well……..It’s very easy to knock options and suggestions, however it’s quite difficult to arrive with answers…….Idiot”
I think the answer is simple: don’t get a crazy guy that puts up mediocre numbers in the NL. (On a side note here: how many mid-tier NL pitchers have worked out for the Yanks this past decade?) Burnett has better numbers than Zambrano taking into account his atrocious year last year. The numbers suggest that the Yanks are better standing pat than making this trade.
4time — No question. We need two starters. I agree that Pettitte is more fragile at this stage of his career, but if he comes back, he’s at least the #3 starter, if not #2.
Whatever injuries Pettitte suffered last season, he had the best ERA and win % of all the Yankee starters, and he was the only one who put up a quality (at times, dominant) outing in every one of his postseason starts. The Yankees need him back.
L . o . l .
The only worry I’d have with Zambrano is that he’d start a fight with another player or management.
I don’t want to go back to the “Bronx Zoo” days.
YankFanCA December 16th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
4time — No question. We need two starters. I agree that Pettitte is more fragile at this stage of his career, but if he comes back, he’s at least the #3 starter, if not #2.
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Yep we need lots of pitching SP and Bullpen. You never have enough pitching. I marvel at the old guys, 4 man rotation, back to back doubleheaders. Bob Feller was one of those who thrived in the old system. Makes you wonder if any of these modern marvels could have survivied in the old days.
Russell Martin will be our catcher of the future (already a 2-time all-star, only 27), enabling us to trade all of our other catchers for pitching, bullpen, and position help.
I just hope if Montero is traded it’s for someone we can all be excited about.
“Thursday afternoon on a conference call, Martin said he’s glad to have Jorge Posada around to help him learn the staff. Martin also said he’d do anything he could to help Montero’s development.”
“There’s a lot of levels to this,’’ Cashman said. “I’m not saying I want to shoot any of these assets for trade purposes, but sometimes you have to.’’
http://www.northjersey.com/spo.....tcher.html
Couldn’t agree more, 4time. We need Andy, but we can’t afford to lean on him to hold up our rotation with CC. We need to nurse him through the season and make sure he is ready for Oct.
That’s why it would have been nice to beef up the pen to take pressure off CC, Andy and the other guys to throw a lot of innings everytime out of fear of handing the ball to Joba or D-Rob, or making Joe panic and use Mo for 4 outs. Our bullpen was very shaky before Wood arrived.
4time December 16th, 2010 at 6:55 pm
Zombrano is better than most of the options out there
Guy has a fiery personality and won’t be afraid of NY. Has had playoff success too.
///every year at this time there’s a guy everyone fixates on who we’re not going to bring here.It’s not the yanks’ MO to get a guy like Zambrano.& this idea that a “fiery personality” is going to translate into success is romantic to a nauseating extent,esp in this guy’s case.Posada is “fiery,”this guy appears to be troubled.just what we need.
If Martin and Montero both work out offensively, I wonder if the Yankees will entertain a C-DH-3B rotation to keep them both long term.
On some days Arod plays 3B, Martin catches, and Montero DHs. The rest of the time Arod DHs, Martin plays 3B, and Montero catches.
Might not be an ideal situation, but it could work.
RadioKev December 16th, 2010 at 7:02 pm
I just hope if Montero is traded it’s for someone we can all be excited about.
///we’re excited about Montero.
blake – agreed about Bob Feller. Not just a great baseball player, but a great American. The more I learn about him, the more impressed I am.
GLove – I agree, there are things to be concerned about. But, it doesn’t mean they’re going to turn out bad. Just a matter of outlook/opinion, I guess.
ST doesn’t start soon enough.
I just hope if Montero is traded it’s for someone we can all be excited about.
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I rather we traded him for someone we can all get pissed about….who wouldnt want montero to be traded for someone to be excited about???
Cashman is still looking into the following:
1 or 2 situational lefties: Feliciano and/or Fuentes.
1 righty: Aceves (if he’s healthy)/Hideki Okajima/Jon Rauch/Chad Durbin/Todd Coffey
All have warts, some more than others, but that’s whats out there on the FA market.
Trades take longer
Patience.
Why do I keep listing Okajima as a righty? He’s a lefty! My bad – again.
Error on MLBTR also!
Unknown – I’m watching the interview now, and yes, I’m annoyed by eat.
Yeah Carlo, I mean this is some kind of Bizzaro offseason and I hate it.
Yankees not getting anyone of note and the Greatest Yankees of all time saying that they were seriously considering going to the Sux. Just disgusting to hear.
Waiting for Austin Kutcher to come on Sportscenter tonight and say that all Yankee Fans Have Been Punked.
PittsburghYankeeFan December 16th, 2010 at 6:52 pm
Maybe Cashman is saying to the agents: “We’ll pay market value, nothing more, and perhaps a premium if we really want you.”
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Doubt that, I think it’s the other way around. Brian, there isn’t much out there and you need our guy since you didn’t get your guys, but your going to have to pay our price. Cash doesn’t have much of a barganing positon right now the way it worked out, he can pass they just go elsewhere.
My point was merely Montero should be traded for nothing less than elite. A “pretty good” pitcher for Montero will be a downer. Don’t shove out an elite prospect just to fill a need, without filling it damn well good.