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One Chicago bargain and a handful of links

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Dec 16, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

ALCS Yankees Rangers BaseballKerry Wood came up through the Cubs minor league system, and he had his best playing days in a Cubs uniform. After two years away, he wanted to be back in that organization. Apparently he wanted to be there very badly.

Today, Wood agreed to a one year deal to rejoin the Cubs bullpen. The cost: One year, $1.5 million.

Mark Feinsand confirmed what was already obvious: The asking price to pitch for the Yankees was much higher. The Chicago Sun-Times reports that Wood could have played in Chicago on a one-year, $3.5-million offer from the White Sox.

Apparently more than one pitcher has chosen a team ahead of a contract this winter.

A few more links from today…

• Feinsand reports that the Yankees have had “very, very preliminary” conversations about pursuing Rafael Soriano, but Joel Sherman says those conversations won’t go anywhere. The price is far too high for a setup man.

• Bob Klapisch reported today that the Yankees were working toward a deal with lefty Pedro Feliciano. There has been rumored interest in Feliciano since early in the offseason. The Yankees might also be looking into Brian Fuentes.

• The Yankees have reportedly asked for Freddy Garcia’s medical records.

Chien-Ming Wang is on his way back to the Nationals. As you might expect, it’s a small guarantee with heavy incentives.

• The Red Sox are still making moves, including a reported deal with reliever Bobby Jenks. They also sent Eric Patterson to San Diego as the PTBNL in the Adrian Gonzalez deal.

Magglio Ordonez is going back to Detroit.

Sad story about Steven Smith, a 24-year-old Yankees fan who died Monday in a three-car accident. If you didn’t know him personally, you might very well have known him as an active member of the Yankees Twitter community.

Associated Press photo

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226 Responses to “One Chicago bargain and a handful of links”

  1. Captain Clutch December 16th, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    A kick in the pants to Joba would be if he performs really bad then send him to the minors instead of demoting him to mop up duty. Maybe then he will realize that he has to perform to stay on the team instead of getting a free ride because of how he pitched 4 years ago. They also have to get him on a weight loss/work out program. Too bad they didn’t sell high on him. I am sure in NL he could be really good.

  2. REZ12 December 16th, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    That ship has sailed… he can’t go to the minors without passing through waivers now.

    Yanks had their chance… they seem to have accepted him now as a mediocre reliever

  3. West Coast Yankee Fan December 16th, 2010 at 10:13 pm

    Interesting that Wood left millions on the table deciding not to come back to the Yankees. I wonder what he didn’t like about his time in New York. Perhaps he just really wanted to play for the Cubs.

  4. BD (Boston Dave) December 16th, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    Eric Patterson…

    Jed Hoyer must be proud.

    Well, until he’s fired in a few years for turning the Padres into an embarrassment incapable of drawing more than 5,000 fans a night.

  5. YankeesGirly December 16th, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    wth does his weight have to do with his pitching? CC is also over weight but he doesn’t have a problem. he’s try and i think its better fit for him in bullpen.

  6. Jeremy December 16th, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    Also Cashman has failed to show that he can create a Championship roster without depending on Bob Watson, Gene Michael laying the foundation (the 90′s) or spending half-billion dollars in an offseason. Now don’t get me wrong I don’t think that Epstein is better because he is overrated. But It seems that his history as GM is okay at best.

  7. BD (Boston Dave) December 16th, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    “Interesting that Wood left millions on the table deciding not to come back to the Yankees.”

    ———–

    he turned down 133% more from the White Sox so you can’t even say it was about living in Chicago.

    He clearly favored the Cubs or the NL.

    But of course, the sad excuse for the media will find a way to turn this into “Another player doesn’t want any part of the NY Yankees and takes much less money to avoid joining the greedy. evil, but falling, empire.”

  8. P December 16th, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    Robertson is awesome.. joba was once unreal good but that was when he was under Clemens wing and when u see Jonas demeanor now compared to then he is somber and not all jacked up… really makes u wonder!!! I’m not assuming anything just stating facts.. u draw ur own conclusion.

  9. YankeesGirly December 16th, 2010 at 10:17 pm

    W T H does Joba weight have to do with his pitching? CC is also over weight but he doesn’t have a problem. he’s try and i think its better fit for him in bullpen.

  10. Yogi Mantle December 16th, 2010 at 10:17 pm

    While I can understand Cashman not moving on some of these, its frustrating as a Yankee fan to see a lot of teams making moves which look like they are improving their teams, while the Yankees look like they are stuck in neutral.

    It seems the Red Sox are on a huge spending spree, and while they still have some holes, they are at least being filled.

    Wood apparently has his permanent residence in Chicago. It could be some of the reason why he took a smaller paycheck to play there, as it he already calls it home. The Cubs seem to be where he wants to play, and maybe re-establish his value. Still, the difference that his asking price from the Yankees to what he signs for is quite a big difference.

    I don’t blame him not wanting to play for Ozzie. I wouldn’t either.

    It seems like the Yankees are the ugly step child this off season with a couple of exceptions. Hopefully that starts turning around, it would be nice to see a shiny new toy under the Yankee Christmas tree.

  11. Jeremy December 16th, 2010 at 10:17 pm

    I really have lost all confidence in Joba. The problem is that the Yankees and the media have talked him up so much that he most likely believes his own hype.

  12. blake December 16th, 2010 at 10:18 pm

    Marc (Lancaster, PA)

    What does Banuelos need to work on to solidify himself as a top of the rotation pitcher?
    Klaw
    (12:37 PM)

    I don’t see much left for him to do. Tighten the breaking ball? He’s got command. He’s got present velocity. He’s not projectable. The change is plus. He’s pretty damn good right now.

  13. Eroc December 16th, 2010 at 10:19 pm

    Patterson was the PTBNL?

    LOL

    If the Sox need BP help at all this year, hope everyone is prepared for the Danny Nava-Heath Bell trade

  14. Yogi Mantle December 16th, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    Lee had said about not wanting to face the DH, instead getting to face the pitcher. It does seem to help lower ERA going from the AL to the NL. It could also be that pitchers are looking at the Beastly East lineups and when compared to the NL it is a difference.

  15. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    Sorry Blake :( was bored and saw a nice opp to troll prufock

  16. Bret The Hitman December 16th, 2010 at 10:24 pm

    The Joba story is a sad story. His life will make a Hollywood film someday. It’s a tragedy that’s writing itself. You can be angry. I’ve felt really pissed at him on several occasions. But mostly I feel sad for him that he lost so much when he had so much going for him. I feel sad he let himself go. I gave up, mentally and physically. He cheated himself.

  17. blake December 16th, 2010 at 10:24 pm

    LGY,

    its ok…….we all know the real reason Lee went to Philly, he hates sabermetrics and wanted to play for a manager that has no idea what that is most likely :) (Love Charlie BTW)

  18. clownthrowindown December 16th, 2010 at 10:25 pm

    Free agents wanted to come play for Torre. Girardi? Not so much.

  19. Yankee Trader December 16th, 2010 at 10:28 pm

    ESPN reporting it was 1 year and 5 million for Wood, not 1.5 million, which seems more realistic.

  20. Yogi Mantle December 16th, 2010 at 10:28 pm

    Must be tough for YES to have the Yankees Hot Stove show. Other than Mo and Jeter, they signed Martin.

    Not an easy job to talk about that for any length of time.

  21. 108 stitches December 16th, 2010 at 10:28 pm

    Much of Joba’s problems are between his ears along with poor conditioning. He’s been seen (myself included) carrying on conversations with hotties near bullpen areas that float dollar bills with their phone numbers written on them into the bullpen. Rather than pick them up and give the bills to security people to return, he put them in his pockets. Who knows whether he contacts them or not ? Meanwhile, his bullpen mates see this and laugh AT him. How much of this got back to Girardi or the front office ?

  22. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    “Lee had said about not wanting to face the DH, instead getting to face the pitcher. It does seem to help lower ERA going from the AL to the NL. It could also be that pitchers are looking at the Beastly East lineups and when compared to the NL it is a difference.”

    I give him credit for that – he just about said out loud that it’s easier to pitch in the NL than AL. Obviously everyone knows this…but I don’t remember of pitcher of his caliber just coming out and giving that as a reason for signing with a team.

    My Phillies fan friends and colleagues kept laughing at me over the Lee signing until I told them that I respect Lee because not many people would actually settle for less money to go to a lesser franchise that plays in a lesser league in a weak division. They stopped laughing. :-)

  23. yanks 27 December 16th, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    Baseball, more than any other sport, it seems that players are worried more about family/comfort than winning.

    Look at the LeBron James saga this summer… there was nothing about FAs not wanting to live in NY or anything, it was a matter of where they could win. NFL is a little different, because players have to get as much guaranteed money as they can, wherever they can get it, because the sport is so violent, but still, you never hear players say they don’t want to play in a certain area.

  24. yanks 27 December 16th, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    Yogi,

    lol I was thinking that as well. NESN Hot Stove probably can’t even fit all of their coverage of their signings into an hour.

  25. EA December 16th, 2010 at 10:30 pm

    Who isin’t too expensive for the Yankees these days?

    I’m shocked they didn’t try to nickle and dime Martin, too, and have him end up going to Boston.

  26. Yogi Mantle December 16th, 2010 at 10:30 pm

    # Yankee Trader December 16th, 2010 at 10:28 pm

    ESPN reporting it was 1 year and 5 million for Wood, not 1.5 million, which seems more realistic.
    ________________

    I saw this earlier, but it seems everywhere is still saying 1.5. I guess its like the narrative about Lee talking so much less, some still saying 50 million, to go to the Phillies, when that isn’t true.

  27. blake December 16th, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    BD,

    -he was ranked #5 by Frankie Piliere Jan of 2010 before he even had his great 2nd half in AAA….his stock has risen since then.

    -He was ranked #10 overall by Law last year as well and many of the guys ahead of him are already in the big leagues.

    -Baseball America had him #4 last year also overall.

    http://www.baseballamerica.com.....69546.html

  28. Yogi Mantle December 16th, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    Yanks 27, Guess the Saux wanted to make sure they got viewership up big by continually adding someone else. lol.

    I could listen to Mo for a lot longer than he was on for.

  29. Red Lobster December 16th, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    Looks like the Sox want Wheeler too… thinks he’ll take a discount go to BOS (he’s from RI).

  30. RMS December 16th, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    “Much of Joba’s problems are between his ears along with poor conditioning. He’s been seen (myself included) carrying on conversations with hotties near bullpen areas that float dollar bills with their phone numbers written on them into the bullpen. Rather than pick them up and give the bills to security people to return, he put them in his pockets. Who knows whether he contacts them or not ? Meanwhile, his bullpen mates see this and laugh AT him. How much of this got back to Girardi or the front office ?”

    Are you for real with this story? What the hell is wrong with Joba?

  31. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    If it was known for sure Montero would never catch a game at the major league level he would still be a top 5 prospect because of how special his bat can be.

  32. Against All Odds December 16th, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    # REZ12 December 16th, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    That ship has sailed… he can’t go to the minors without passing through waivers now.

    Yanks had their chance… they seem to have accepted him now as a mediocre reliever
    ——————————————

    Mediocre reliever no no no Joba is the heir to the throne that’s why he’s still on the team. Why trade him when he is the heir to Mo. They wouldn’t trade the heir to Mo would they

  33. Yogi Mantle December 16th, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    Thing is, even though the seasons for all the sports are long, none of them are as tough and play as many games as baseball. Having a place where your family will live can help during the grind of the season, even though there are road trips.

    I can see why where you sign could be important to the players. The other thing that doesn’t get talked about is the expense of NYC and surrounding areas compared to some of the other areas. While they are making millions, and could probably get the cost – plus when selling, its still something to think about.

  34. BD (Boston Dave) December 16th, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    blake,

    those rankings are a year old.

    I saw all those.

    prospect rankings fluctuate so often that they are practically worthless if they are older than a few months.

    look, i’d love to believe that Montero is a consensus top 5 prospect (even though in general i think these lists are more for entertainment and tend to be wrong more often that not), but i just don’t see it.

    it’s not what the yankees think montero is worth. it’s what other GMs do. And I don’t think many of them are certain he will stay at catcher.

    honestly, from the BA list link you sent, I’d say Montero is at the bottom of that list based on today (behind most of the guys that were in the top 20.) Until Montero proves the world wrong and plays well as a catcher, he’s just not going to be valued the same.

  35. Jeremy December 16th, 2010 at 10:40 pm

    The only thing that Joba knows how to do well right now is drink and eat. Other than that Joba is not the heir to replace Mo.

    I was calling for a Joba trade even if the Yankees got a bag of balls. And basically at this moment Joba is worth a bag of balls.

  36. Pat M. December 16th, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    I Said a few years back when the Joba love-fest was going on here and Hughes and Ian were being driven out of town that not only would Phillip be the much better pitcher, I’m also on record in saying that Ian Kennedy would have the better career….Ian is going to be a very nice starting pitcher…..

  37. blake December 16th, 2010 at 10:42 pm

    BD,

    His stock has gone up since last year as he’s improved behind the plate…he’ll be there this year as well. He’s one of the top 5 prospects in baseball by most accounts. You’re entitled to your opinion though.

  38. BD (Boston Dave) December 16th, 2010 at 10:44 pm

    Hopdevil,

    Lee didn’t really settle for less money.

    The Phillies are giving him $132.5M guaranteed over 5 seasons.

    The Yanks reportedly offered him something in the neighborhood of $140M guaranteed over 6 seasons or $154 over 7 (sorry if those are off, I’ve flushed that whole saga from my mind).

    Point being, the least $ he’ll get is $132.5M over 5 seasons (if his 6th yr option doesn’t vest)

    That is an OBSCENE $26.5M average annual salary (again, assuming the 6th yr option doesn’t vest and they have to buy him out.)

    That isn’t exactly “settling for less.”

  39. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 10:46 pm

    Why does Montero have to be a catcher to be top 5?

    He doesn’t have the best bat for a catcher in the minors. He has the best bat in the entire minor leagues.

  40. Jeremy December 16th, 2010 at 10:47 pm

    Pat M.
    I agree. As I see it right now Joba better start drafting up his resume because it looks like his baseball career will soon be coming to a quick end if he doesn’t make some major strides soon. I always thought highly of Hughes and even when he was performing badly you could tell that he cared and wanted to get better. I don’t see that with Joba.

  41. BD (Boston Dave) December 16th, 2010 at 10:47 pm

    blake,

    do you have any links to scouts that have said they think he will be a catcher long term?

    or any GMs?

    I haven’t seen one.

    Note: I value someone like GB7′s opinion more than most of those, because he has actually seen the guy play.

    But the point is, I don’t know where you are getting your info. Show me some current scouting reports that suggest he is going to be a catcher long-term.

    3 one year old lists (out of dozens of rankings), only one of which had him as a top 5 prospect, isn’t really an argument that he’s a top 5 prospect on nearly every list. it just isn’t.

  42. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 10:48 pm

    Montero is the consensus best bat in the minors. If he isn’t top 5 he is top 10 on bat alone.

  43. blake December 16th, 2010 at 10:49 pm

    The Yanks offered 132 million over 6 years with a player option for the 7th at 16 million I believe….so basically they offered 7/148. Lee really didn’t leave much money on the table at all….he’s just betting that he’ll be able to get another contract after the 6th year in Philly.

  44. Yogi Mantle December 16th, 2010 at 10:50 pm

    BD, the other thing that doesn’t play into the narrative about Lee is that you always make out better taking a higher dollar amount early, as it has added value sitting in your bank account than being a promise down the road.

    As far as guaranteed total dollars, it was less, but it would have required more years to get all that, and if he is still healthy and even moderately effective he could make up the difference easily in a year less time.

  45. yankeefeminista December 16th, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    Montero is unanimously considered a top 5 or higher by any and every reputable scouting list. The opposite is true in that you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who *doesn’t* see Montero as a top 5. Further new lists will come out in 2011, and Montero strong AAA numbers in the second half of 2010 will do nothing to diminish but will enhance Montero’s ranking.

  46. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/0.....2010-1-25/

    This is Pre 2010, and Frank Piliere, an actual scout, put Jesus in the top 5. Then he wenjt on to really demolish the 2nd half in AAA.

  47. BD (Boston Dave) December 16th, 2010 at 10:52 pm

    LGY,

    Mike Stanton had the best power bat in the minors by most accounts. But sure, he got called up.

    Find me a fewcurrent ranking lists (meaning within the last few months) that shows him as a top 5 prospect.

    I wish he was the #1 prospect in baseball. I do.

    But he won’t be a top prospect if he’s seen as a 1b/DH.

    The last scout I read (within the last week) said he has the potential to hit .260 and 25HR in the majors.

    Do I agree? No.

    But that scout knows more about the game than any of us here do. So his opinion counts for somehting.

  48. blake December 16th, 2010 at 10:53 pm

    BD,

    http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/1.....rve-youth/

    I watched him catch probably 30 games or so this year plus the ST ones….I think he’s got a shot to catch adequately and even if he doesn’t, the bat will play somewhere.

  49. Tom in N.J. December 16th, 2010 at 10:53 pm

    i posted this article by Frankie Piliere earlier today. It’s worth the read:

    “If for a moment we could pretend that they operated like a normal organization — that the Yankees weren’t the Yankees — we’d be pointing to all the players from within that they could use to infuse talent into their big-league roster over the next few seasons.”

    “Despite recurring reports of his defensive problems, Montero is at a stage where he can handle himself as a big-league catcher.”

    “I’ve had the pleasure of scouting Montero at each level of the minor-league ladder during his development, and the worries about his defense aren’t unwarranted. But, they were much more warranted two years ago, and even more so the year before. As he’s matured, especially physically, his defense has improved, not declined as some predicted. With Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre in 2010, I still saw a lot of inconsistencies in Montero’s game behind the plate, but it was nothing that I don’t see from time to time from mediocre defensive catchers at the major league level. ”

    “The bottom line is that there is a big difference between having defensive deficiencies and not being able to play the position at all. Montero is ready to play catcher in 2011, and the more I’ve seen from him, the more confident I’ve become of that fact. He’ll have his moments that frustrate you back there, but there are no deficiencies that are glaring enough to warrant moving him off the position. His potential to hit 35 home runs a year should more than make up for that. ”

    http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/1.....rve-youth/

  50. 108 stitches December 16th, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    Are you for real with this story? What the hell is wrong with Joba?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I don’t stand a chance of gaining a thing by fabricating what Joba does. He doesn’t need anybody’s help in making an ass of himself. He does well enough all by himself.

  51. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    This was Montero’s line in the 2nd half:

    .351/.396/.684

    As a 20 year old in AAA

  52. BD (Boston Dave) December 16th, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    Yogi Mantle,

    true.

    no matter how you look at it, Philly offered him a significant chunk of change. It’s not enough to simply say he took less money to go there. Without putting it into context, it’s poor journalism to leave it at that, IMO.

  53. Against All Odds December 16th, 2010 at 10:55 pm

    # Jeremy December 16th, 2010 at 10:47 pm

    Pat M.
    I agree. As I see it right now Joba better start drafting up his resume because it looks like his baseball career will soon be coming to a quick end if he doesn’t make some major strides soon. I always thought highly of Hughes and even when he was performing badly you could tell that he cared and wanted to get better. I don’t see that with Joba.
    ——————————————

    The question is what happened because there was a time when Joba attacked the game with so much fire and energy. It’s like he knew every time he took the mound it could be his last but now it just seems like he can’t wait to get off the mound.

  54. blake December 16th, 2010 at 10:55 pm

    “The last scout I read (within the last week) said he has the potential to hit .260 and 25HR in the majors.

    Do I agree? No.

    But that scout knows more about the game than any of us here do. So his opinion counts for somehting.”

    I wouldn’t say unnamed scouts know more than anyone….who knows who that was….couldn’t have been Kevin Millar for all we know.

  55. Tom in N.J. December 16th, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    Mid-season (July 2009) Top prospect list:

    5. Jesus Montero

    http://www.baseballamerica.com.....10314.html

  56. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    Mike Stanton had good power, but he also struck out 30% of the time. Jesus Montero has special contact ability, which is the key to having a high batting average in the minors.

    Prospects like Stanton will hit .300 in the minors, but then hit .250-.260 in the Majors because of their lack of ability to make contact. Adam Dunn was a .300 hitter in the minors.

  57. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    “But he won’t be a top prospect if he’s seen as a 1b/DH. ”

    ———————

    Why not?

    You are creating these rules for top prospects, but there is no rule that you can’t be a top prospect as a 1B/DH.

    Montero’s bat projects to be elite at ANY position on the field.

    As a 1B he would still project to have an elite bat.

    Sticking at C is just a great added bonus, but his bat which is the best in the minors is what makes him the prospect who he is.

  58. Tom in N.J. December 16th, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    2010 not 2009

  59. blake December 16th, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    A lot of top prospects play 1B, most are top prospects because they can hit.

  60. yankeefeminista December 16th, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    I’ve seen Montero play live 3 times and his bat is the real deal. I also have talked to scouts in Trenton; everyone knows how special he is. Obviously catching gives him more value, but even if he doesn’t catch, his ranking is indisputable. No one in baseball questions his hitting ability.

  61. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    Montero was a bigger power bat, but that doesn’t make him a better hitter.

    Montero has scored out at an 80 on both power and hitting skills.

  62. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    *Stanton* was a bigger power bat.

  63. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    BD,

    Yep, I know the money ends up being closer than the numbers thrown around initially…essentially Lee is banking on his own durability (which isn’t an entirely bad bet). I was just deflating some Philly fans who were tweaking me. If it was $1 less I was still going to let them know he took less. :-)

    Also, here’s one more article about Montero from a former scout who’s watched Montero extensively…

    http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/1.....re_twitter

  64. BD (Boston Dave) December 16th, 2010 at 10:59 pm

    I still suggest that other GMs don’t value Montero very highly because they are extremely skeptical that he will remain as a Catcher.

    I’d be shocked if there weren’t at a minimum 5 other prospects that didn’t have more trade value than Montero based on that fact alone.

    That was the point I was trying to make, and I’m sticking to it.

    I hope and believe that Montero will be able to catch, thus vaulting his value tremendously. But right now, he isn’t one of the 5 most valuable prospects in the game for the purposes of trade value.

  65. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 11:00 pm

    BD,

    Let’s get down to business then. :)

    Name 5 better prospects.

  66. blake December 16th, 2010 at 11:00 pm

    “I still suggest that other GMs don’t value Montero very highly because they are extremely skeptical that he will remain as a Catcher.”

    link?

  67. BD (Boston Dave) December 16th, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    Are people really posting rankings lists from July 2009?

    I might as well post George Bush’s approval rating from 2001. I believe it was around 90%.

  68. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    LOL sorry looks like a few people beat me to the article. It’s a good one, I think, because aside from Montero it helps put the “state of the Yankees” farm system in perspective.

  69. 4 NYY December 16th, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    Would like to see Montero possibly take Thames role this year and learn from the older catchers and coach Pena while catching now and then, and DHing some at least. If he gets hot, you never know what could be in store for him. If he falters badly, he could go down for a little seasoning.

  70. yankeefeminista December 16th, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    A more difficult question to answer is can you find someone who doesn’t think Montero’s bat is special. Good luck with that. That power-average combo doesn’t grow on trees.

  71. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    Are people really posting rankings lists from July 2009?

    ————————

    Montero’s value and prospect status has gone UP since 2009, not down.

  72. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    Are people really posting rankings lists from July 2009?

    He corrected himself, it was from 2010. If you actually clicked the link you’d see that as well.

  73. hman23 December 16th, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    Look at these two seasons. They are both those of a starting pitcher in his mid-twenties, and during each player’s first full year as a starter:

    GS IP H BB SO W L WHIP ERA
    33 179 188 81 161 14 8 1.50 5.43
    31 157 167 76 133 9 6 1.54 4.75

    One is Joba, and the other is the one we have been drooling over for the past few weeks.

    Not saying he is heading for a $120M contract someday, but to say that Joba cannot make it as a starter is very premature.

  74. 4 NYY December 16th, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    Joba’s head not = to Lee’s !!!

  75. Red Lobster December 16th, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    blake December 16th, 2010 at 11:00 pm

    “I still suggest that other GMs don’t value Montero very highly because they are extremely skeptical that he will remain as a Catcher.”

    link?

    lol

  76. Tom in N.J. December 16th, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    Another mid seaon top prospect list.

    NOTE TO ALL IT’S FROM JULY 2010!

    5. JESUS MONTERO (C), YANKEES

    http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/0.....s-of-2010/

  77. 4 NYY December 16th, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    When you have the hitting with power potential of a Montero, you have a VERY highly regarded player !

  78. blake December 16th, 2010 at 11:11 pm

    The Yankees could probably have Greinke if they wanted him by including Montero.

  79. Carl December 16th, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    CC is big, but he is 6’6 6’7. He’s been big since high school.

    Joba is sloppy, I been up all night drinking fat.

  80. BD (Boston Dave) December 16th, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    LGY,

    Ackley, Teheran, Perez, Harper, Trout, Jennings… I really don’t know but I’m sure there are more.

    Of course, you could throw in plenty of guys who are still technically prospects but played in MLB part of 2010 (still eligible for ROY in 2011).

  81. P December 16th, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    joba does not work out in tge off season like a lot of a+ talent.. he spends allot of time with his son which is great but if he worked out half as much as jetes or arod he might start takin his old form. he was like a young Clemens .. nasty and intimidating .. not anymore sadly and his velocity is not even close to what it first was!

    another one is Tex he is pitting on wait ever since he landed his payday inda bronx

  82. Yogi Mantle December 16th, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    BD, it was decided from the first report of Lee going to the Phillies and the first report of the salary being quite a bit lower than the actual amount, that they were going to focus on his signing for so much less, and they are far too lazy to correct that.

    It sounds far better to say 50 million left on the table and how it snubs the Yankees. The Rangers had the higher offer on the table, and that doesn’t get a mention.

  83. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 11:15 pm

    In the link Tom just posted Montero was ranked 5 despite only hitting .250 with a .313 OBP at the time.

    He then went on to hit .350 with over a 1.000 OPS in the second half.

    As a 20 year old!

    The kid was a top 5 prospect when he wasn’t hitting because of his talent.

    Then he absolutely started annihilating the ball.

  84. Carl December 16th, 2010 at 11:15 pm

    http://www.gettyimages.com/det.....ages-Sport

    If Joba was this size, he would be right behind CC in the rotation.

  85. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 11:15 pm

    Wow I knew Sanchez was very highly touted but I did not realize that some ranked him THAT high so soon (looking at Piliere’s list that puts him at 25 overall)

  86. BD (Boston Dave) December 16th, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    Yogi Mantle,

    of course…

    I need to move out of Boston. I’m getting tired of explaining that to idiot Sox fans.

    Though I think I read that right now the Sox have a higher payroll than the Yankees do. I wonder if any Sox fans will apologize for years of whining about $$ now that their team has the highest payroll.

  87. Tom in N.J. December 16th, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    At the beginning of 2010, John Sickles had Montero as the 2nd best hitting prospect in baseball. He was behind only Heyward.:

    http://www.minorleagueball.com.....-in-review

  88. yankeefeminista December 16th, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    This was written *before* Montero’s 2010 season, which *improved* his ranking.

    BP projects a .299/.352/.498 line for Montero next season and compares him to Torii Hunter, John Buck, Justin Huber and Derek Bell. Personally, I think Montero will eclipse Hunter as a hitter, but sometimes prospects don’t work out. Regardless, Kevin Goldstein rated the 20 year-old as the fourth-best prospect in the game:

    “Montero can flat-out hit and might be ready to hit in the majors now if it weren’t for his lack of position. Teams are phobic about grooming young players as designated hitters, but every once in a while, the farm system produces a special hitter, an Edgar Martinez or Frank Thomas, whose natural, God-given position is DH. Like those fellows, Montero could be propped up in the field from time to time, particularly at first base, but he’s clearly not a catcher, at least not right now.

    Montero is only 20 and could figure out how to catch eventually, perhaps at the same age at which a college-trained catcher might be drafted, but his bat is propelling him forward to fast for his glove to keep up. Obviously, Montero would be more valuable if he could stay behind the plate; the same was true of Carlos Delgado, Paul Konerko and even Jimmie Fox…If he does hit (at the Triple-A level) there is no point in holding him back waiting for some revelation of defensive ability that might never come…”

    “He’s almost assuredly not a catcher in the end, and it’s almost assuredly not going to matter. In terms of pure hitting ability, no prospect matches Montero, whose ability to put up big numbers in horrible hitting environments at levels a player at his age has not right to be in has everyone projecting him as a monster force in the big leagues.”

    Kevin Goldstein, Baseball Prospectus from
    http://waswatching.com/2010/02.....s-montero/

  89. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    Ackley, Teheran, Perez, Harper, Trout, Jennings

    Harper hasn’t played a lick of pro ball, Ackley sucked, Teheran was the #40 prospect pre-2010 jesus was #4. Perez was #17 and just threw up a 6 ERA in AA. Trout is good. Jennings was #6 pre-2010 and OPS’d .700 in AAA then hit .190 in the Majors.

  90. yankeefeminista December 16th, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    Also, the BP evaluation was before this season, RE: Montero’s catching, which had improved, and BP was still ranking him top 5 *without* a position.

  91. Yogi Mantle December 16th, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    BD, can we also flood the radio talk shows about how the RS and the Phillies are buying championships? lol.

    One thing is certain, the most over used phrase that we would have heard if the Yankees had signed Lee was “The rich get richer”. Funny, you don’t ever hear that connected with the Red Sox. Even after all the other additions they have made since Crawford signed.

  92. BD (Boston Dave) December 16th, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    ““I still suggest that other GMs don’t value Montero very highly because they are extremely skeptical that he will remain as a Catcher.”

    link?

    lol”

    ————-

    here’s one link for you.

    if your post warrants an “lol” then you definitely aren’t as funny as you think you are.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....finalized/

  93. P December 16th, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    it looks to me like Tex has put on close to 20lbs from when he was with the angels.. comparing him to last season.. no idea what was wrong with Tex last season, we’ve not had a real 1B since mattingly, I have had very high expectations of Tex and he’s been stellar defense but his bat is not even close to be earning his duckets.

    Tex when he is hot is hot, but when he is cold man is he painful to watch and last season he had one good month and a few good games in between..

    I don’t mind if this is a rebuilding year, but it’s not .. we’ve got our infield locked up for well at least 3 or 4 years.. that leaves only the OF to upgrade and if Granderson can’t cut it this year then try and trade him.. man I’d take crawford or holliday over granderson in minute..

    maybe Damon comes back as a bench player for cheap this year??? But my dad says he may end up in tampa or might even retire.

  94. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 11:23 pm

    Dustin Ackley is 2 years old than Montero at the same level and OPS’d .776 this season

    Montero was a better prospect than Teheran mid season when he wasn’t hitting at all. Teheran also only has 60 innings in AA.

    Martin Perez was awful this season.

    Trout and Montero are probably a toss up depending on who is ranking them

    Harper hasn’t even played pro ball yet.

    Montero was a better prospect than Jennings before the season and while Montero was busy mashing the ball this season Jennings SLG below .400. And Jennings is a whole THREE years older than Montero.

  95. BD (Boston Dave) December 16th, 2010 at 11:23 pm

    Jerkface,

    do they have more trade value than Montero right now?

    I don’t give a rats *** what BA or anybody has had them ranked. My point, and my only point has been….

    Until Montero shows the rest of the baseball world that he can catch, he’s not going to have the same value in trades as some of the other top prospects that have no doubts about their positions. Because of this, there are players with more trade value than Montero.

    period.

  96. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    Jack Z’s faith in Justin Smoak will prove to be his downfall. Smoak as a ‘switch hitter’ failed to hit from the left side of the plate. In the minors, in the majors. He also struck out 25% of the time. Anyone could see he was not going to maintain a high average, and his switch hitting was dubious at best.

    He has 2 good abilities: Power, and Patience, but without the contact ability and hitting ability from the left side, he is going to be quite useless in SafeCo.

  97. blake December 16th, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    BD,

    What Jack Z thinks shouldn’t count should it? Smoak is a good prospect who was already in the big leagues at the time…..the Mariners screwed up on that one.

  98. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 11:26 pm

    “Until Montero shows the rest of the baseball world that he can catch, he’s not going to have the same value in trades as some of the other top prospects that have no doubts about their positions. Because of this, there are players with more trade value than Montero.

    period.”

    ————————

    There is no evidence to this at all.

    Any other team that didn’t have 1B could just move Montero to 1B.

    Any team without a DH could just make him a DH.

    He is not a top prospect or super valuable because of his position. Guys like Romine only have trade value because they play C.

    It doesn’t matter where Montero plays.

    Any position on the field he is considered an elite bat. And more valuable than guys like Jennings who are 3 years older and can’t come close to his hitting ability.

  99. clownthrowindown December 16th, 2010 at 11:26 pm

    From Keith Olbermann…

    “I have heard two completely conflicting sets of information about Montero: the first that he is the Super Prospect: an influential catcher in all aspects of the job, and a potent bat. The second is that he has not grown either as a defender, handler of pitchers, or check on baserunners, and that his swing has more than one hole.

    In 25 years of carefully watching scouting reports, when they conflict this much, I’ve never seen the positive ones prove correct.”

    http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/

  100. Yogi Mantle December 16th, 2010 at 11:27 pm

    P – You mean aside from Teixeira still doing incredible with the glove, saving a number of errors, and him playing with a broken toe and bone bruise on his hand?

    His batting wasn’t great, but when he had started turning it on he had his toe broken. Think that doesn’t affect your batting when there is twisting motion involved with your feet while batting?

    And yet he still was making great plays at first.

  101. BD (Boston Dave) December 16th, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    blake,

    that toolbag Red Lobster asked for a link regarding a GM who didn’t value Montero as highly as we do. I think Jack Z is an idiot. But he’s a GM who liked Smoak more than Montero and that’s been my only point.

    again, this isn’t about what I think about Montero. I think he’s a future star.

    It’s about how other GM’s value a guy that they don’t think can stay at the C position.

  102. Chase December 16th, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    There is just no way you trade Montero at this point. None.

  103. hman23 December 16th, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    P December 16th, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    . . . . we’ve not had a real 1B since mattingly,

    ______________________________________

    no love for Tino?

  104. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    Quoting Keith Olbermann now? lol

    Yes prospects with holes in their swing hit .353 and slug .600

  105. Yogi Mantle December 16th, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    Olbermann is, quite frankly, insane. I wouldn’t take anything he says these days as valid.

  106. yankeefeminista December 16th, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    lol, fangraphs has no business doing scouting evaluations unless they are quoting scouts. They are notoriously bad at it. Ditto Olbermann.

  107. P December 16th, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    I liked Tino well enough but hexwas no mattingly or Tex

  108. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    Jack Z is the same GM who assembled one of the worst offenses a team has had in recent memory in 2010.

  109. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 11:31 pm

    I know Olbermann is Yankees fan…but seriously the guy drinks his own kool-aid. His arrogance in that (and other) posts is borderline obscene. He ALWAYS presumes to know better than the Yankees front office.

  110. blake December 16th, 2010 at 11:31 pm

    BD,

    I see your point but if he hits like many think he will then that carries great value, he’s been compared to Miguel Cabrera, Frank Thomas, and Edgar Martinez. If he can catch, which reports say that he’s improving at, then that’s a bonus. The overall point is that unless a true frontline starter can be obtained for him then its best that they keep him and find out for sure what he is.

  111. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 11:31 pm

    The Yankees can have Jesus catch, DH, and play 1B, and then take over at 1B full time as a 26 year old when Tex’s contract is up. Swish.

  112. BD (Boston Dave) December 16th, 2010 at 11:32 pm

    “There is no evidence to this at all.”

    —————

    I guess Jack Z would disagree with you.

    Toronto didn’t seem to want Montero that much either. If he’s a guaranteed future hall of famer as some here want to suggest, they’d have had no problem dealing Halladay within the division.

    I’m done with this conversation. If I’m wrong, so be it.

    I would say I hope you prove me wrong, but that’s impossible. I believe/hope Montero will be a superstar.

    I wish the 29 other GM’s all agreed with me.

  113. BD (Boston Dave) December 16th, 2010 at 11:32 pm

    blake,

    I agree with that 100%

    have a good night

  114. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    Toronto didn’t seem to want Montero that much either.

    Cashman offered him for Halladay straight up.

  115. blake December 16th, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    “The Yankees can have Jesus catch, DH, and play 1B, and then take over at 1B full time as a 26 year old when Tex’s contract is up. Swish.”

    this

  116. Yogi Mantle December 16th, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    Smoak may develop more as a hitter over time. It could be the value seen in him was more that he was playing in the bigs at that time. Wishing someone would be ready for the next season vs. one already able to play in the majors may have caused Smoaks value to the M’s to be higher.

    There have been conflicting reports about Montero sticking at catcher, but it seems pretty consistent raving about his batting.

  117. blake December 16th, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    BD,

    you as well.

  118. P December 16th, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    I already said Tex defense was stellar.. I’m talking offense.. which his offense has been barely above average at best since the post season ’09

  119. yankeefeminista December 16th, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    Banuelos is considered by some to be a better prospect than Perez.

    No one but Jack Z. ranks Smoak more highly than Montero.

  120. Against All Odds December 16th, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    hman23 December 16th, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    Not saying he is heading for a $120M contract someday, but to say that Joba cannot make it as a starter is very premature.

    ————————————————-

    Tell that to the Yankees who seem to be happy that he’s a middle reliever that’s inconsistent

  121. jacksquat December 16th, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    From reports, it’s sounds like Banuelos is nearly ready. Lefthanded, Fastball 92-93, hitting 96-97, with control, and that’s not even his best pitch, which is his changeup, plus a decent curve. I know he is young, but it sounds like he should get a long look this spring.

  122. stuart a December 16th, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    Olbermann is far from insane.

    sad about the guy smithy’s unfortunate death.

    kerry wood I am sure liked NY. He is already quite wealthy and lives in CHicago, and liked being a Cub so he resigned there. It is not all about money all the time. Some of the players actually have minds and hearts….

    good for wood going where he is happy, he lives in chicago year round and his kids go to school there.

  123. blake December 16th, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    Baunelos has only 3 starts in AA. If he does well at Trenton early in 2011 then he could make it to Scranton for the 2nd half and I guess have an outside shot for the 2012 rotation…..a lot can happen between now and then though. 2013 is probably more realistic but he would still only be 22.

  124. hman23 December 16th, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    P -

    Tex had a down 2010 for sure, although he did produce. But he did have a poor start that was unfortunately longer than typical, and a ton of injuries down the stretch.

    Expect a bounce back year.

  125. Yogi Mantle December 16th, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    I expect that we might see Banuelos sometime this season, even if its September call up. If they have a hole in the BP he might get a call even sooner. Despite the Yankees being conservative with their pitching prospects, they aren’t going to ignore him if he is doing well in the minors.

  126. JobaTipsHisCap December 16th, 2010 at 11:41 pm

    Boston is on the way to bury Yanks in 2011. I am pessimistic.

  127. Carl December 16th, 2010 at 11:42 pm

    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play......id=2964448

    Wish they would have just sent Joba to the minors and let him work it out.

    Trying to develop him at the major league level was just stupid.

    He should have came out blazing in 09 instead of the Yankees stretching him out in 08.

  128. yankeefeminista December 16th, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    I agree that we will see Banuelos this year either for a spot start or out of the pen late.

  129. blake December 16th, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    ManBan only has 15 inning pitched above AA…..hard to see them bringing him up to the big leagues in 2011 but I guess anything can happen.

  130. hman23 December 16th, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    # Against All Odds December 16th, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    Tell that to the Yankees who seem to be happy that he’s a middle reliever that’s inconsistent

    ____________________________

    Sure, if Cliff Lee would have been on the Yankees in 2004, I am pretty sure they would have sent him to the BP too? How would that have turned out?

    The Yankees are a good organization in many respects, but their development of young pitchers is questionable.

  131. yankeefeminista December 16th, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    Don’t forget too that Banuelos really pitched well in the AFL, which is a hitter’s league. Look at him in Rising Stars game. If he continues to develop as he has, he will move quickly. Just has to make sure his CB is up to speed.

  132. yankeefeminista December 16th, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    Carl December 16th, 2010 at 11:42 pm
    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play……id=2964448

    Wish they would have just sent Joba to the minors and let him work it out.

    Trying to develop him at the major league level was just stupid.

    He should have came out blazing in 09 instead of the Yankees stretching him out in 08.
    ___
    Yep. He should have been sent back down, and the rest is history.

  133. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    As much as I’d love to see a stud prospect like Banuelos make an appearance sooner rather than later…I still fear putting a guy that young into the mix so soon. Even if he simply comes up and pitches from the pen – it disrupts that flow of innings pitched from one year to the next and could limit his progression in terms of arm/shoulder strength. The whole Verducci effect rule – don’t increase innings more than 30 per year for pitchers under 25.

  134. GreenBeret7 December 16th, 2010 at 11:49 pm

    No way would they bring Banuelos to NYYs this year. He lost a half a season’s worth of innings. He could easily be in AAA by mid-season, though. There is zero reason to push him to NY in 2011.

  135. blake December 16th, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    “Don’t forget too that Banuelos really pitched well in the AFL, which is a hitter’s league. Look at him in Rising Stars game. If he continues to develop as he has, he will move quickly. Just has to make sure his CB is up to speed.”

    Yea I agree, he’s very polished for his age. Really looks like his curveball is the only thing that needs some refining, the change is already big league caliber. The Yankees just don’t seem to rush these guys along. Hughes destroyed the minor leagues and they still had him throw a full season at Trenton.

  136. yankeefeminista December 16th, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    I agree, but I don’t think they will push him. However, he might get a spot start or get a little bullpen look once SWB is out.

  137. Against All Odds December 16th, 2010 at 11:52 pm

    # hman23 December 16th, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    # Against All Odds December 16th, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    Tell that to the Yankees who seem to be happy that he’s a middle reliever that’s inconsistent

    ____________________________

    Sure, if Cliff Lee would have been on the Yankees in 2004, I am pretty sure they would have sent him to the BP too? How would that have turned out?

    The Yankees are a good organization in many respects, but their development of young pitchers is questionable.
    ————————————–

    Good point. That’s what ppl don’t understand it’s not just about Joba it’s how they handle and develop their starters. Their track record is far from stellar in that regard but all you hear ppl say is they know more than us so you have to believe they know what they’re doing. I used to believe that had a good grip on what they were doing but what happened in 2009 threw all of that out the window.

  138. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 11:53 pm

    That Chamberlain video makes me sad :(

  139. SAS December 16th, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    GB,

    We are leaving NY early in the AM. I will check in along the way.

  140. GreenBeret7 December 16th, 2010 at 11:56 pm

    The most innings that Banuelos will likely pitch in 2011 is 140-145 innings. They won’t push him until he’s completely physically mature. He needs to gain some weight this season.

  141. GreenBeret7 December 16th, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    SAS December 16th, 2010 at 11:54 pm
    GB,

    We are leaving NY early in the AM. I will check in along the way.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    SAS, sounds great. Just have a safe and fun trip. I’ll pull out an old Yankee story in a day or so or some trivia type nugget for you.

  142. yankeefeminista December 17th, 2010 at 12:01 am

    lol. Banuelos does look like a little kid. You see him sitting behind home plate, charting the pitches with Brackman who is a giant sitting next to him, and you don’t even realize he is an athlete. But he did add some muscle to that frame while he was rehabbing after the appendectomy. He said the working out was why his velocity went up. Trenton should be exciting to watch again this year.

  143. yankeefeminista December 17th, 2010 at 12:03 am

    I’m out too. Safe trip, SAS. Good Night.

  144. Captain Clutch December 17th, 2010 at 12:04 am

    A 20 year old with a hole in his swing? That must be a 1st.

  145. GreenBeret7 December 17th, 2010 at 12:04 am

    Banuelos looks more like the team bat boy than the young stud pitcher many think he could be.

  146. SAS December 17th, 2010 at 12:09 am

    GB,

    It’s not fun with the dog and ‘the lead foot’ driving. The stupid AAA didn’t include the right maps for Ohio where we will be tomorrow night. I never looked because I have been getting new ones every year and they have been fine. I could kick myself tonight.

  147. SAS December 17th, 2010 at 12:10 am

    Thank YankFeminista

  148. SAS December 17th, 2010 at 12:11 am

    OK, GB, I am going to pack up the laptop. Have a good day

  149. Betsy December 17th, 2010 at 12:12 am

    Well Pat M, the Yankees were extremely foolish not to make that trade. Robertson is easily replaceable and Brackman? He’s the guy I think least of – and what are the odds he turns into Haren?

  150. GreenBeret7 December 17th, 2010 at 12:12 am

    People seem to forget that Montero missed the last month of the 2009 season with a broken finger on his right hand. He didn’t play winter ball in 2009 other than about 15 at bats, for the first time in years. Whether the hand was still bothering him early in 2010, I don’t know, but, his swing was all screwed up and it took awhile to fix it.

  151. Betsy December 17th, 2010 at 12:20 am

    Cashman made the asinine comment that Manny could be a lefty reliever for us this year. I mean, is he kidding? He’s 19 and a starter – he needs to just keep starting (he missed half the year this year) and getting innings in. He’s not ready for the big leagues………….I’m just not very happy with Cash at all right now.

  152. Betsy December 17th, 2010 at 12:21 am

    IMO, they rush Phil to the majors……..I’ve not much confidence in the Yankees when it comes to developing pitchers.

  153. UnKnown December 17th, 2010 at 12:25 am

    Wow I would rather watch the last 4 games over again from the ALCS in ’04 than listen to anything or read anything that Olberman has to say. Freakin Lunatic. Another loser who just won’t shut up.

  154. Carl December 17th, 2010 at 12:25 am

    Cashman mentioned LHP prospect Manny Banuelos by name, but stressed that the Yankees would “like to keep him in the starting rotation.”

  155. Hopdevil December 17th, 2010 at 12:25 am

    Wow…when did Cashman say that about Banuelos? I wouldn’t have expected that from Cash or anyone in the organization frankly.

  156. Betsy December 17th, 2010 at 12:29 am

    He said that this year – ST maybe? I know the quote was posted in a thread here.

  157. Carl December 17th, 2010 at 12:29 am

    Could be doesn’t = Will be.

  158. dc in el cerrito December 17th, 2010 at 12:33 am

    A buddy of mine ran into Johnny Damon & said the Yanks were talking about signing him.

  159. GreenBeret7 December 17th, 2010 at 12:36 am

    here’s a possible bet on a Yankee trade for a pitcher coming to the Yankees. Perhaps a deal like Nova or Mitchell, Pena and Cervelli would interest Chicago. If the White Sox are trying to unload salary, perhaps they’d move Rios for Gardner and Romulo Sanchez at the same time.

  160. GreenBeret7 December 17th, 2010 at 12:38 am

    •The White Sox are pushing their payroll to new heights, and ESPNChicago.com’s Doug Padilla suggests they might consider trading Edwin Jackson to create some salary breathing room.

  161. Hopdevil December 17th, 2010 at 12:42 am

    Ahh…okay. Thought it might have been part of the Lee fallout and I missed it. After missing so many innings this year I doubt he would stand by that statement now.

    Can’t really blame Cash for Lee not signing, and Wood stated he wanted to return to Chicago.

    And Cash has stood firm and not agreed to overpay for middle relievers – which I believe is a very good thing. There are other non-B arms that can be brought up to the pen during the year that have every chance as being as good if not better than the relievers currently/recently on the market. (Save maybe Soriano – but his asking price is the highest plus he costs a 1st round pick)

    And if the Yanks avoid the knee-jerk reaction to trade Montero for a mid-tier pitcher that will be another victory in the big picture.

    So bottom line I don’t believe Cash is doing as bad as many fans seem to think he is…

  162. Hopdevil December 17th, 2010 at 12:47 am

    Wonder what the price on Edwin Jackson would be?

  163. Hopdevil December 17th, 2010 at 12:50 am

    Although even with potential salary constraints it’s tough to imagine Sox trading a pitcher away when they have yet to see how Peavy recovers

  164. Jerkface December 17th, 2010 at 12:50 am

    A C type pitching prospect maybe?

  165. Jerkface December 17th, 2010 at 1:03 am

    Jackson was traded for Matt Joyce, then included in the deal which brought Max Scherzer and Dan Schlareth to the Tigers for Ian Kennedy and Edwin Jackson. Then traded for Dan Hudson and David Holmberg. Hudson was a good pitching prospect and Holmberg is a nobody.

    That was for 2 years of control for Edwin Jackson.

    Now its down to 1 year and the salary is 8 million.

    We may be able to acquire him for simply Ivan Nova.

  166. Pat M. December 17th, 2010 at 1:08 am

    Face…..Back in July Nova & either Brackman or Robertson would have fetched Dan Haren

  167. Jerkface December 17th, 2010 at 1:11 am

    I’m skeptical of that. And if its true then its possible Cashman thought Haren’s HR rate and the amount of hits he was giving up were not likely to subside on the Yankees

  168. Nick in SF December 17th, 2010 at 1:15 am

    Scoff at Olbermann all you want, but he has Heyman on speed dial.

  169. Hopdevil December 17th, 2010 at 1:16 am

    Not to mention the run for Cliff Lee the FA

  170. PittsburghYankeeFan December 17th, 2010 at 1:30 am

    Cash is doing just fine. Sometimes doing nothing is better than making panic moves.

    With Javy Vasquez, an atrocious AJ Burnett, an injured Andy Pettitte, an injured CC Sabathia, an innings limited Phil Hughes, and subpar seasons from Jeter, ARod, and Texeira, the team almost made it to the World Series.

    Pluses for next year:

    (1) There is no more Javy Vasquez.
    (2) There is no more Randy Winn (remember him).
    (3) There is no more Chad Gaudin.
    (4) There is no more Dave Eiland.
    (5) Expect ARod to hit 30 points higher.
    (6) Expect Jeter to hit 30 points higher.
    (7) Expect Tex to hit 20-30 points higher.
    (8) CC Sabathia and Hughes should dominate.
    (9) AJ Burnett should regain his early season form–he can’t get worse.
    (10) Pettitte returns.
    (11) The number 5 starter should win a combined 10-12 games–likely a mix of names.
    (12) Although 41, the best closer in history shows no signs of slowing down.
    (13) No more Nick Johnson wasting a roster spot on the 40 man.
    (14) No more Damaso Marte.
    (15) No more Cervelli (likely out, but who knows).
    (16) Posada shouldn’t get hurt being a more full time DH.

    Minuses (as of today):

    (1) Not 100% sure Pettitte is coming back.
    (2) Need a consistent setup guy.
    (3) Need a decent experienced lefty reliever.
    (4) Could use one more bench bat/DH type.

    This team is still built to win in excess of 95 games. A few considered, patient acquisitions, and everything should be fine.

  171. Hopdevil December 17th, 2010 at 1:40 am

    Couldn’t agree more, Pittsburgh.

    I wouldn’t mind getting an average innings-eating pitcher that isn’t cost prohibitive – if that exists in today’s market.

    The Feliciano signing would be nice for another lefty reliever…he’s used to seeing the Phillies big left-handed heavy lineup and has done well…should be successful against Boston’s lefties as well.

    A lot of fans tend to forget or ignore how many things went wrong this past season and the Yanks still had a great run before falling flat against Texas.

    Again, bottom line, to me at least, is that there is no need to start panicking and trading the farm away. It’s not a bad team as it stands now.

  172. DaSaint007 December 17th, 2010 at 2:57 am

    GB, just checking in on the overnight.
    I see you also are watching the Edwin Jackson developments.
    Let’s keep our fingers crossed.

  173. yclept December 17th, 2010 at 3:06 am

    Betsy –

    Cashman also once said that Bubba Crosby was his starting center fielder. I don’t think he ever *seriously* thought Banuelos was a candidate for the bullpen in 2011.

    That said, there is a school of thought (which I agree with) that says it is a good idea to break in young starters as relievers – whether it be for a month, a half of a season, or however long it takes for them to get comfortable in the big leagues.

  174. Pat M. December 17th, 2010 at 3:09 am

    yclept…..It worked for the Baltimore Orioles during their great run from the late 60′s thru the early 80′s….The Earl Weaver Era

  175. yclept December 17th, 2010 at 3:33 am

    Hopdevil -

    I agree – if a sensible trade falls into Cashman’s lap, he’ll make it – otherwise, perhaps he’ll look for a reclamation project and wait until after the season starts. He’s not likely to give up a big chip now that he may be able to use on a bigger prize once the season begins.

    The Yankees will do something – but some may not be satisfied with anything above a big acquisition. This team doesn’t need a big acquisition right at this moment. I see Edwin Jackson’s name being brought up tonight – and I think he would be a good fit.

  176. yclept December 17th, 2010 at 3:39 am

    Pat M-

    Yep. I converse with someone daily who often brings up the Earl Weaver strategy of breaking in pitchers that way. (I am a little young to remember it, as I was born in ’73). Of course, if the Yankees do that with Banuelos and he dominates, we will hear that he should be Mo’s successor, and not a starting pitcher.

    I can bet anything that the organization has zero intention of allowing him to come north with the squad out of spring training – they’ll take a long look at him, let him perhaps get into a game or two or three, then send him off to minor league camp.

    If he dominates in the minors through the first half of the season or so, they’ll reevaluate. He still needs at least a little bit of experience in the upper minors before they truly entertain this idea.

  177. CompassRosy December 17th, 2010 at 3:42 am

    Dustin Ackley is 2 years old than Montero at the same level and OPS’d .776 this season
    :::::::::

    Yes, they are at the same level even though it was Dustin’s first season of pro-ball and Jesus’s third. No question that Dustin had a rough start but, he was adjusting to a new position (not to mention wooden bats ;-). He rebounded nicely this fall though, earning the honor of the AFL MVP…
    http://tinyurl.com/2eutrsp

    ______________

    Smoak as a ‘switch hitter’ failed to hit from the left side of the plate. In the minors, in the majors. He also struck out 25% of the time.
    :::::::::::

    I think I’ll give him a bit more than 168 games in the minors and 52 in the majors before writing him off ;-)

  178. GreenBeret7 December 17th, 2010 at 5:50 am

    102 days until Opening Day

    62 Days until Spring Training starts

  179. wernerman December 17th, 2010 at 6:18 am

    The Yankees have a good farm system just a notch below the best. Montero if they let him play will be a very good hitter with good power. My problem with him is his defense. This has been the talk for at least a year and it seems it is still a problem. My question is when are the Yankees going to do something about it? He is there top prospect. If he can’t catch move him to another position. If he is a dh then get rid of posada and let him dh. Posada is not a dh anyway.

  180. Crawdaddy December 17th, 2010 at 7:10 am

    Banuelos is on an innings limit next season and at most will throw 150 innings. No way he’s with the big club in September. The best case scenario for him in 2011 is that he stays healthy, pitches well and splits his 150 innings between Trenton and SWB.

    I disagree with GB7 about him needing to gain weight. He looks to be much bigger than the 155 lbs that MiLB has him at. I think he’s about 185-190 lbs and is solidly built with big shoulders at about 5′ 11″.

  181. Doreen December 17th, 2010 at 7:11 am

    Good morning, morning people.

    I just finished reading the article about the young man who was killed.

    I felt like I needed to say that I cherish many of the people that I have “met” here on the Lohud with whom I’ve been posting for the last several years. Thank you.

    *****

    Well, I wish Kerry Woods all the best in Chicago. But here again you see what Cashman is often up against.

    *****

    I’m finding it amusing that at least for now the Red Sox payroll has surpassed that of the Yankees. My husband had the opportunity to speak with a co-worker last evening who is also a Sox fan, and he said, basically, “you know everything that was ever said about buying a championship? Well, forget it – it’s great!”

  182. upstate kate December 17th, 2010 at 7:20 am

    good morning right back at you :)

    That was a sad article. I worry when some of my favorite posters disappear for awhile, you really have no way of knowing where they go.

    I think of Wood going back to the Cubs like Andy coming back here after his time w/ the Astros. Can’t blame him, given his history there.

  183. Doreen December 17th, 2010 at 7:30 am

    upstate kate -

    Very good point about Woods/Pettitte. I really do wish him well there.

    I worry, too. I have actually thought about instructing my husband to post if anything happened to me. I haven’t mentioned this to him yet, because he already thinks I’m nuts! ;)

  184. MaineYankee December 17th, 2010 at 7:37 am

    Doreen & kate.

    I know you must be talking about me so I’m here to tell you I’m OK. :lol: j/k

    I’m glad that Cashman is more patient than many on here.

    I want the Yankees to do well and win WS, but life goes on if they don’t.

    It seems like some take it beyond the entertainment that it is.

  185. Mell December 17th, 2010 at 7:45 am

    “I think of Wood going back to the Cubs like Andy coming back here after his time w/ the Astros. Can’t blame him, given his history there”

    Good point. However, Pettitte won’t sell himself short the way Wood did to land where he wanted to land. Given the way the relief market has been this winter, Wood could have commanded 300%-400% more than he’s taking from the Cubs. Pettitte’s not going to bleed the Yankees, IMO, but if he comes back, he’s going to want $12M-$13M. Cubs got an absolute gift on this one.

  186. Doreen December 17th, 2010 at 7:45 am

    Maine Yankee -

    I’m glad you’re okay!!! :)

    I agree with your sentiment above about wanting the Yankees to do well (of course!!) but realizing that life will go on either way. :)

  187. Doreen December 17th, 2010 at 7:48 am

    Mell -

    The Yankees never get those kind of “gifts.” I don’t ever expect it anymore. Heck, even when they’ve got the highest offer on the table, it’s somehow not enough. Sigh.

  188. upstate kate December 17th, 2010 at 7:51 am

    well Maine Yankee we do miss you when you aren’t around :)

    yeah, I don’t understand why Wood sold himself that short. Weren’t there reports that it was 5 mil?

  189. Mell December 17th, 2010 at 7:52 am

    Doreen:

    I’m not sure anyone gets a discount like that. I was stunned to see that. That’s free agency though. Gives one the opportunity to pick a place. Wood’s afffinity for the Cubs must be quite strong.

  190. MaineYankee December 17th, 2010 at 7:52 am

    Doreen

    Thanks. :lol:

    Time to hear what your Christmas menu is this year.

    That’s more interesting than all the reHASHing that goes on.

    How is your daughter doing in here new place?

  191. Doreen December 17th, 2010 at 7:53 am

    upstate kate -

    I thought I read it was for 2 years, anyway. I can understand him wanting to live in that area, though. I’d go back in a minute, and we were only there for 2 years 10 years ago. :)

  192. MaineYankee December 17th, 2010 at 7:55 am

    kate

    Thanks.

    It is nice here this time of day.

  193. Doreen December 17th, 2010 at 7:56 am

    Maine Yankee -

    Still working on the Christmas menu.

    My daughter’s doing mostly fine, but there’s been a few growing pains. I’ve put a few miles on the car in the last 3 months. :lol: Thanks for asking.

  194. MaineYankee December 17th, 2010 at 7:59 am

    Doreen

    I admire your dedication to your family.

    I read your story on your blog and wanted to tell you I think your family is lucky.

    Don’t take this wrong. Just wanted to give you props.

  195. Mgumpher December 17th, 2010 at 8:00 am

    So now Cashman is being killed for saying that a minor league lefty pitcher might come up as a reliever?

    First off, how does anyone know what he has in mind when making these comments? For all we know this is a means to let the FA’s know that there are options the Yankees have to fill the role. For another, in the old days many pitchers broke into the majors by pitching out of the bullpen. While it doesn’t work for all of them, it seemed to have worked pretty well for Hughes, where he gained a lot of experience in the majors and gave him a lot of confidence.

    Its simply amazing to me that certain people seem to think they know everything while they spew really dumb comments about nearly every aspect of the Yankees. Sad to think they call themselves “fans” of the Yankees.

  196. Doreen December 17th, 2010 at 8:02 am

    Thanks, Maine Yankee.

    :)

  197. Mell December 17th, 2010 at 8:08 am

    Mgump:

    I think you may have it right. Probably a message from Cashman to the free agent crowd that he is not going to overspend for a LOOGY (Feliciano) or middle relief in general.

  198. MTU December 17th, 2010 at 8:22 am

    Good Morning folks.

  199. Mike Ri December 17th, 2010 at 8:25 am

    Morning MTU !

    What do you think of Cashmans comments

  200. MTU December 17th, 2010 at 8:25 am

    Maine-

    Remember the old cigarette commercial ?

    “I’d walk a mile for a “camel” “.

    If I smoked I’d have a house full of them.

    :)

  201. MTU December 17th, 2010 at 8:26 am

    Mike-

    Morning to you.

    Which comment are you referring to ?

  202. Mike Ri December 17th, 2010 at 8:28 am

    MTU -

    Cashman is being killed for saying that a minor league lefty pitcher might come up as a reliever?

  203. MTU December 17th, 2010 at 8:29 am

    Mike-

    Are we talking about Banuelos ?

  204. Erin December 17th, 2010 at 8:29 am

    Best of luck to Kerry Wood in Chicago. And I still find it amusing that my Cubs fan/closet Yankee fan mother wanted him to stay with the Yankees. :)

  205. Mike Ri December 17th, 2010 at 8:31 am

    MTU —

    Are we talking about Banuelos ?

    - yes , I think thats who Cashman is referring too

  206. upstate kate December 17th, 2010 at 8:32 am

    David Cone has made that same comment…as have other pitchers…I don’t see anything wrong with it. Why over pay when you can give one of your own guys the opportunity

  207. MTU December 17th, 2010 at 8:36 am

    Mike-

    First thought is that it would be quite amazing for the Yankees to have that kind of confidence in such a youg kid.

    I have seen TV on Man-Ban. He has a terrific CU. It’s so good it appears that even hitters know it’s coming they have difficulty making contact. Many see a young Santana.

    Hughes definitely benefitted from his time in the pen.

    On the other hand, Banuelos is far from a finished product and I think
    it might be argued that it would better for his long-term development to get him more innings.

    I have often thought that using the BP as a vehicle to prepare young pitchers for starting roles is not a bad way to go.

    Those are some of my random thoughts.

  208. randy l. December 17th, 2010 at 8:44 am

    if pettitte comes back i’m not that concerned about the yankees getting another starter.

    i think people are focusing too much on what’s wrong with the yankees instead with what’s right.

    they have a quality #1 starter, really good young pitcher in hughes,great infield, a good outfield, and the best closer in history still throwing well.

    for all the credit long gets, the offense slumped last year overall , and i look for them to get back the 50 runs they lost from 2009. their OPS also dropped 50 points.

    the yankees do not have to have the best starters in the league to win the american league east or to get the wild card.

    they do need to come up with a solid number two for the playoffs, but there’s plenty of time for that.

    the problem with making a trade for another decent starter is that they could get guy like vasquez who looks great on paper and is really bad when the games are played. vazquez wasn’t cheap last year either.

    i don’t see a problem with having good but not great starting pitching and having a great offense. i like the upside gamble of russell martin. you can’t get lucky with a 50/50 gamble if you don’t take the chance. it’s just like swisher. no one knew he wasn’t going to hit .220 again.

    martin if nothing else adds a catcher who throws well and theyankees need that to neutralize the red sox running game with CC and ellsbury.

    montero is an offensive wild card who will benefit from starting at triple a. i’m not big on a rookie coming up for the first time in the erratic cool northeastern weather. a may or june call up is much better for hitting and there’s less pressure then because the player has been playing real games for a few months and there is no opening of the season hoopla.

    all the yankees have to do is stay close the first two months and see what they have. what if burnett comes back. if you know that it changes what you give up to get another starter. i think the yankees would like to know what burnett is going to be . playing some games is one way to find out.

    bottom line is i don’t see a bad situation, but rather a very loaded team with a possible all hall of fame infield that needs to add a good starter at some point in the year for the playoffs.

  209. MTU December 17th, 2010 at 8:50 am

    Randy-

    That would be the optimist view.

  210. pat December 17th, 2010 at 8:54 am

    On an intellectual level, I understand baseball negotiations are just business and he who has leverage uses it.

    On an emotional level, I didn’t want to read Mo say negotiations with the Red Sox were real.

    Not sure I see the upside of admitting that for him or them instead of just saying NY is where I wanted to be.

  211. MTU December 17th, 2010 at 8:57 am

    Randy-

    The counterpoint is, why should we assume it’s like climbing Mt. Everest for Cashman to identify trade targets and then acquire them in a reasonable fashion ?

    That’s his job.

    I don’t think he always has been screwed in trades. In point of fact, he has been the screw-er one more than one ocassion.

    Personally, I’d rather not be looking up at the sidewalk at the trade deadline. No guarantee we can keep it as close as you suggest.

    Me. I prefer being more pro-active and getting some more insurance
    now.

    My 2 cents.

  212. Mell December 17th, 2010 at 8:58 am

    “Not sure I see the upside of admitting that for him or them instead of just saying NY is where I wanted to be”

    End result was “all things being equal, I will be a Yankee”. I don’t have problem with that.

  213. randy l. December 17th, 2010 at 9:00 am

    mtu-

    i’m just saying that a lot of people are acting like the yankees don’t have a very good team.

    that said, a team has to decide play with some fire and bring out the potential, but i think a lot of yankees are going to want to raise their game from last year. i look to jeter, alex, burnett, teixeira, granderson, and posada all to have an edge to them to want to have better offensive years.

    if martin is healthy, i think he’s going to add something to the team. but again , the yankees have to come out and play to see where they are at.that’s what those first few months are for.
    i do know the yankees will not be eliminated in those first two months. i just don’t see the panic.

  214. MTU December 17th, 2010 at 9:03 am

    Randy-

    It’s not panic, at least on my part, it’s just a difference of approach and perspective is all.

    :)

  215. Mgumpher December 17th, 2010 at 9:03 am

    Isn’t it a bit ironic that there was so much talk about Feller and him coming up at the age of 17 and dominating, yet the Yankees have a young pitcher who is being talked about possibly getting a relief role and is thought of as being too young, yet is a couple years older than Feller was.

    I’m not comparing him to Feller, but one thing of note is that Feller was one of the players who went right to the majors. No seasoning. Just jumped right in.

    I get protecting your investment and being careful to allow them to develop, but is it really necessary to have a hard and fast rule that applies to everyone, despite the fact that people are different, and will develop at different rates. For all we know bringing up Manny could be the best move for his development.

    Its not like the Yankees are committing to do anything, in any event, but exactly how would it harm Banuelos to pitch out of the bullpen at some point this coming season?

  216. Erin December 17th, 2010 at 9:05 am

    New Post: What Martin might mean for Montero (and Romine)

    :arrow:

  217. randy l. December 17th, 2010 at 9:07 am

    “On an emotional level, I didn’t want to read Mo say negotiations with the Red Sox were real.”

    mariano has that calm killer edge to him that makes him such a great closer.

    the fact he used it with the yankees by bringing the red sox into play just shows what a tough guy he really is. it’s what makes him great.

    i wish every yankee icon would keep management in line by using the power they have the way mariano did.

    i also hope they do it with the idea of coming back to the yankees the way mariano did.

  218. blake December 17th, 2010 at 9:08 am

    I actually agree with both Randy and MTU here. I think they should be proactive this winter in trying to improve deficiencies but if nothing is there that makes sense then what Randy is saying is still there and they will be ok starting the season wig what they have. If Pettite comes back then the Yanks are the 2nd best team in the AL on paper if they do nothing else……

    I also saw the interview with Rivera and felt like the language barrier was at play a little bit….Rivera speaks pretty good english but Im not sure all that came out as he intended it to……the important point was that he wanted to be a Yankee.

  219. Mell December 17th, 2010 at 9:09 am

    “if pettitte comes back i’m not that concerned about the yankees getting another starter.”

    I’ve been maintaining this for a couple days now. With Pettitte, they are plenty good enough to stay in the hunt, assuming good health. With more likely to be available at the trade deadline than appears to be available now, I don’t see a big problem with trying to bag an additional starter then.

    “for all the credit long gets, the offense slumped last year overall , and i look for them to get back the 50 runs they lost from 2009.”

    They’re going to have to find ‘em on the road. Perhaps the most disappointing feature of last year’s team was their almost Red Sox-like home/road splits. This group simply has no business slugging only .402 away from the Stadium.

  220. Mike Ri December 17th, 2010 at 9:11 am

    thanks MTU . . .New Thread

  221. MTU December 17th, 2010 at 9:11 am

    Blake-

    Choose one POV or the other.

    You could have been a Politician.

    Morning.

    :)

  222. MTU December 17th, 2010 at 9:12 am

    Mike-

    I’m not sure it helped but you’re welcome.

    :)

  223. MTU December 17th, 2010 at 9:14 am

    Mell-

    You could just as easily argue that there is more, or as much, available now as there will be at the TD.

    Just sayin’

    ;)

  224. blake December 17th, 2010 at 9:14 am

    MTU,

    Will you vote for me…..? I can.straddle the fence.

  225. MTU December 17th, 2010 at 9:18 am

    Blake-

    Not if you can’t take a stand.

    I thought people from your neck of the woods were “plain spoken”.

    :)

  226. blake December 17th, 2010 at 9:21 am

    MTU,

    We do ;)

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