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Russell Martin: His knee, his hip and his role

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 16, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Yankees Martin BaseballRussell Martin is officially the Yankees everyday catcher. It’s a one-year deal, but Martin is still arbitration eligible next season, so he’s under team control for two years. The Yankees can bring him back in 2012, or they can let him go. The choice is theirs.

This morning, Brian Cashman called the signing a low-risk, high-reward move. It gives the Yankees flexibility with their young players, and Martin’s best-case scenario is pretty good. The Yankees are also confident that he’ll be healthy, despite past problems and a new injury that showed up during his physical.

Martin’s role
“As long as he’s healthy, Russell Martin is going to be our everyday catcher,” Cashman said. “… He’s still one of the better catchers in the game. He hasn’t been, the last year and a half, at the premier level that he was prior, but despite the slippage in performance and the injury and stuff, he still has been at least above average. I think it gives us great depth. We did a lot of research on this guy. He plays hard. He’s tenacious. He’s a gamer. He’s got a terrific personality. I think the fans are going to appreciate the fact that, as long as he’s healthy, when they see this guy out there, they’re going to see a guy who’s really getting after it.”

Organizational impact
Cashman did not rule out the idea of Jesus Montero making the big league roster as a backup, but he stressed that having Martin lets the Yankees take a little extra time with both Montero and Austin Romine. In their organizational meetings about Martin, the Yankees looked back at the benefit of easing Jorge Posada into the job while Joe Girardi was still the regular catcher.

“(Posada’s transition) took a number of years and some growing pains,” Cashman said. “Now we’re in a situation where, we have Russell Martin. He can take the reins as these kids take this next step at the Major League level, they can develop on their timeframe and now the timeframe is not forced on them because we need them at all costs.”

Increased potential for a Montero trade?
“Our assets this organization currently possesses is high-end pitching depth as well as high-end catching depth,” Cashman said. “If we ever choose to shoot those bullets, we’re in a better position to do so. There’s a lot of levels to this. I’m not saying I want to shoot any of these assets for trade purposes, but sometimes you have to.”

Martin’s hip injury
Before the signing became official, Martin when through what Cashman called an “extremely long physical,” a precautionary measure to ease the Yankees concerns about his injured right hip. Cashman described the injury as common in the NFL, but unusual in baseball. Because of that, the Yankees might take a little extra time.

“Doctors assessment is that he’ll be a full player in spring training,” Cashman said. “Whether we treat him that way might be a different story.”

Knee surgery
One unexpected development from the “extremely long physical” was the discovery of a slightly torn meniscus in Martin’s right knee. It’s similar to the problem CC Sabathia and Jorge Posada played through last season, and on Monday Martin will have a similar surgery to repair it. That’s a three-week recovery. A lot of players don’t start offseason hitting until around New Years anyway. Cashman said it might have become an issue, might not.

“We just don’t want it to become a problem,” Cashman said. “If he was our player a few weeks ago, a few months ago, we would have gotten it taken care of. Just get this out of the way so it’s not a problem. Not a serious surgery at all.”

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392 Responses to “Russell Martin: His knee, his hip and his role”

  1. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Yeah, everything Cash has actually said sounds to me like Posada doesn’t even own a catchers glove anymore.

  2. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    If true, something has gone terribly wrong.

    No GM’s plan survives contact with the regular season. and ID, Posada could very well catch double digit games without affecting anything. You have interleague, potential Andy starts.

    And double digits could be 10! You saying he is going to catch less than 10 games? So 162 games this year will be caught by 1 of Cervelli, Martin, and Montero?? I can think of a few scenarios where that would be less than ideal.

  3. rodg12 December 16th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Chad -
    Any idea if the Yankees consulted with Dr. Philippon (ARod’s hip doc) on Martin’s hip issues?

  4. Jerzz December 16th, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Having Posada on the bench will enable Girardi to pinch run much more for Montero.

  5. Betsy December 16th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    It makes sense. I had concerns about Montero being handed (even if he had a good ST) the full time job out of ST; it’s not easy to lead a staff at his age (esp. a staff with the question marks we have). Martin doesn’t have to be Mauer; he just has to be solid.

    I don’t see Montero being traded unless some true stud becomes available and that’s not happening

  6. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Jerkface – Why does Posada need to catch Pettite?

  7. rodg12 December 16th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    10 games is nothing. Chad Moeller caught 9 games for the Yankees last year, for crying out loud. I totally agree with Jerkface, Posada will get into double digits catching this year. I’d say rather easily.

  8. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    Jerkface – Why does Posada need to catch Pettite?

    Because scouting reports say Martin can’t call a game, and Posada+Pettitte is a veteran duo. And Pettitte likes to have the catcher call the game.

  9. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    “Our assets this organization currently possesses is high-end pitching depth as well as high-end catching depth,” Cashman said. “If we ever choose to shoot those bullets, we’re in a better position to do so. There’s a lot of levels to this. I’m not saying I want to shoot any of these assets for trade purposes, but sometimes you have to.”

    I’m not sure if this scares me or comforts me. It’s either Cashman playing his cards close by not ruling out a trade of our top prospects or it’s Cash signaling he might be ready to deal them.

    I know prospects (even highly touted ones) can be hit or miss…but I still drool over the prospect of having young, elite talent as opposed to always having to sign older FA’s.

  10. Keith--FL December 16th, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    Maybe Montero can be the back-up catcher and part time DH so he can get s more AB’s and Posada can sit and not DH everday….

  11. Captain Clutch December 16th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    The Yankees need a right handed outfielder who can play against lefties. Someone who can hit lefties and slot into the lineup if Gardner or Granderson sits against lefties. I am not sure what to make of Gardner as an everyday player and I think they need someone as protection that could play everyday if Gardner doesn’t show any improvement as an everyday player.

  12. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    Martin doesn’t have to call a game. He will, just like Posada does, take signs from the bench.

  13. Mike Ri December 16th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    ??Our assets this organization currently possesses is high-end pitching depth as well as high-end catching depth,? Cashman said. ?If we ever choose to shoot those bullets, we’re in a better position to do so. There’s a lot of levels to this. I’m not saying I want to shoot any of these assets for trade purposes, but sometimes you have to.”
    -

    Does anyone else smell trade ??

  14. brianlopez22 December 16th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    This is the dumbest move. you have to give Montero his chance, just like Jeter got his shot. Jesus has already spent his year in AAA. Time to give him his shot!

  15. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    its not like calling pettites game is difficult.

    Throw the slow curve.

    Throw the slower curve.

    Throw the even slower curve.

  16. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    brianlopez – It takes more than 1 season of AAA to breed a catcher.

  17. rodg12 December 16th, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    # Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    its not like calling pettites game is difficult.

    Throw the slow curve.

    Throw the slower curve.

    Throw the even slower curve.
    ——————————————————
    And you called us idiots in the last thread? LMAO.

  18. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Martin doesn’t have to call a game. He will, just like Posada does, take signs from the bench.

    Posada doesnt take pitch signs from the bench.

  19. Jerzz December 16th, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    “Our assets this organization currently possesses is high-end pitching depth as well as high-end catching depth,” Cashman said. “If we ever choose to shoot those bullets, we’re in a better position to do so. There’s a lot of levels to this. I’m not saying I want to shoot any of these assets for trade purposes, but sometimes you have to.”

    ———–

    Bret the Hitman should have a field day with that quote

  20. Bob December 16th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    is this the FIRST Martin on the yankees since Billy ?

  21. CountryClub December 16th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    Whether Posada catches 10 games or 30 games, it’s the end of him being the “starting” catcher. Thanks for the good years, Jorge.

  22. yanks 27 December 16th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    I doubt they will keep throwing Martin out there if he hits like he did last year.

  23. Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    The Yanks’ 2011 ceiling just dropped a little more.

  24. Joe from Long Island December 16th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Betsy – agreed.

    I really think Jorge’s job will be to DH, and be the emergency catcher.

  25. MoRings42 December 16th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Aside from the tag, there is no mention of Francisco Cervelli in the story.. gotta love this blog sometimes lol.

    So what’s his story? Is he still back up, fighting for it or are they planning to trade him?

  26. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    jerkface – Unless there is some public statement of “posada doesn’t take signs from the bench” I’ll just assume you are making that up to further your point.

  27. Tom in N.J. December 16th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    1997 Yankees as the model?

    Girardi-109 starts at catcher

    Posada-52 starts at catcher

    Mike Stanley-didn’t catch after he was re-aquired…

  28. Patrick December 16th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    jerkface – Unless there is some public statement of “posada doesn’t take signs from the bench” I’ll just assume you are making that up to further your point.

    Uhh he’s right. Cervelli doesn’t get signs from the bench either, unless it’s for a pitch out or throw to first, etc. The Yankee coaches do not call pitches from the bench… it’s fairly obvious

  29. Mell December 16th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    “Does anyone else smell trade ??”

    Not a strong odor, but most definitely a hint of one.

  30. Jason22 December 16th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    If there is an open competition for the catcher Jesus wins the job and it’s not close, one guy is a great hitter, the other a decent one if he is healthy, Cashman is showing he does not know his own players once again.

    Sure put Jesus in the minors he has a lot to prove, I guess he can hit 375 the first two months of the year after hitting 340 the last 3 this year while Martin is hitting 250 in the majors, you’re a smart one Brian.

    All prospects are not the same, comparing a good hitting minor league player named Posada to Montero is so dumb, and I am not knocking Jorge, I love him, he has been a great Yankee, but he was never anything close to what this kid can be in the minors.

    What’s the matter Brian you afraid of the guy who you just paid 5 million being outplayed by a 21 year old?

    Let the kid fight for the job, if you do, you will see what everyone who has ever seen him hit sees, a a once in a generation hitter, something your team kind of needs right now, you know?

    So disappointed with his statement.

    Goodluck to Martin I don’t mind the signing, I thought he could back up Jesus and also play some backup at third and first like he has in the past. You need to let your prospects the special ones fly when they are ready, and this one is ready, and now you just put a bunch of crap on his wings for no reason, when all you had to do was have an open competition.

  31. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    jerkface – Unless there is some public statement of “posada doesn’t take signs from the bench” I’ll just assume you are making that up to further your point.

    Are you daft? Of course Posada calls the pitcher’s game. The only signs from the bench are for pitch outs and throw overs and IBBs. There have been numerous articles detailing this, including the friction between the likes of Posada and Joba over what pitch to throw.

  32. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    jerkface – Unless there is some public statement of “posada doesn’t take signs from the bench” I’ll just assume you are making that up to further your point.

    ****

    You could say the same exact thing about rour statement that he doesn’t call games.

    I have never heard anything about Jorge not calling his own game.

    Everytime Pettitte pitches well he says the same thing “Georgie called a great game”

  33. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    Jerkface -

    Read what Chad posted above and then perhaps you will be willing to open your eyes and realize that Jorge Posada’s role on this team has nothing to do with a catcher’s mitt anymore.

    Jim Thome is a good idea in theory – he just doesn’t fit in here and I don’t imagine him wanting to sign on somewhere for 100-150 at bats scattered throughout the season.

    Additionally – he doesn’t fit in with the way Cashman likes to build his bench. He wants guys who can play multiple positions – not guys who can’t play any.

    For Jim Thome to get any meaningful at bats you’re almost going into the season hoping that Russ Martin and Jesus Montero fail and that Jorge Posada has to go back to regular catching.

    If that happens the Yankees are in a ton more trouble than Jim Thome’s bat can correct for.

  34. Mell December 16th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    “He will, just like Posada does, take signs from the bench”

    It’s been a long time since Posada wasn’t calling his own game.

  35. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    Yes, and the yankee’s have 800 mound visits because the catchers are doing all the work.

  36. yanks 27 December 16th, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    “Our assets this organization currently possesses is high-end pitching depth as well as high-end catching depth,” Cashman said. “If we ever choose to shoot those bullets, we’re in a better position to do so. There’s a lot of levels to this. I’m not saying I want to shoot any of these assets for trade purposes, but sometimes you have to.”

    ———-

    Interesting… seems to be an opening there.

  37. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    LGY December 16th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
    jerkface – Unless there is some public statement of “posada doesn’t take signs from the bench” I’ll just assume you are making that up to further your point.

    ****

    You could say the same exact thing about rour statement that he doesn’t call games.

    I have never heard anything about Jorge not calling his own game.

    Everytime Pettitte pitches well he says the same thing “Georgie called a great game”

    ——————

    Think this through for a minute –

    Do you truly believe that a manager who is as big a control freak as Joe Girardi isn’t calling the pitches from the bench?

  38. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    I just don’t understand the need to have posada catch pettite. he didn’t need posada to hold his hand on his journey to houston.

  39. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    If Posada doesn’t call his own game why has he had issues working with some pitchers over the years?

    Unless this is some sort of conspiracy from the Yankees there has never been evidence the bench calls the game.

  40. blake December 16th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Boy sure sounds like there is a good chance Montero starts the year in Scranton or perhaps they even trade him. I was hoping to see the Montero era begin struggles and all but we’ll see how it plays out.

  41. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    There was never any debate that Posada would be the primary catcher or not. The debate is if he will catch games. And he will catch 10+

  42. Captain Clutch December 16th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Cash should call the W. Sox and see if any of their starting pitchers are available. Buehrle, Danks or Floyd but I doubt Floyd or Danks are available.

  43. Mell December 16th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    “There have been numerous articles detailing this, including the friction between the likes of Posada and Joba over what pitch to throw.”

    As well as Posada and Burnett. Gotta be hours worth of posts in the archives on the Posada/Burnett thing.

  44. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    I’m starting to wonder if Jerkface and LGY are the same person – they are the only ones who are fighting for Jim Thome (by basically making the same argument) and they’re also the two who most often seem to genuflect at the alter of advanced metrics.

    I’m not openly saying shenanigans – but I’m certainly considering it.

  45. Chad Jennings December 16th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    You’d prefer that I only tag a player if he’s specifically mentioned by name in a post? That’s usually the case, but I think most people can read this and understand that it has an impact on Cervelli, even if I never mentioned his name. Sorry if that confused you, MoRings.

  46. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Girardi is such a control freak he greenlights all his base runners 24/7.

  47. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Are there any stats sites that let you separate pitchers stats by the catcher they threw to?

  48. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Do you truly believe that a manager who is as big a control freak as Joe Girardi isn’t calling the pitches from the bench?

    ********

    Not a chance. I don’t even remotely believe Jorge doesn’t call the game.

    I also don’t think Joe is a control freak.

  49. 108 stitches December 16th, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    I still believe Jorge will catch somewhere near 40 games in his final year. There would be some of those games where the team is holding a safe enough lead and he’ll get replaced behind the plate with either Montero or Martin.
    The best part is the flexability all 3 provide in being able to shuffle back and forth at DH or catching. Jorge will not likely catch 2 successive games. He’ll also get rested at times from doing anything at all except for emergency or as a switching hitting PH.
    Martin can also play other positions. Not the case with Montero.
    All things point to Cervelli being the odd man out and used as part of a trade package. He won’t be happy being Romine’s backup at AAA after tasting the big leagues over the last 2 years.

  50. EA December 16th, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    “Boy sure sounds like there is a good chance Montero starts the year in Scranton or perhaps they even trade him. I was hoping to see the Montero era begin struggles and all but we’ll see how it plays out.”

    Yeah, not very encouraging, re: Montero

  51. Captain Clutch December 16th, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Cashman definitely spoke to Torre about Martin. I doubt he would of signed him if Torre didn’t say good things about him. It’s not bad to have the opinion of someone who watched him everyday for 3 years.

  52. Tom in N.J. December 16th, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    “Are there any stats sites that let you separate pitchers stats by the catcher they threw to?”

    BR has it at the very end of each players ‘splits’ page.

  53. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
    I just don’t understand the need to have posada catch pettite. he didn’t need posada to hold his hand on his journey to houston.

    ——————

    Agreed.

    The notion that familiarity would be the determining factor is silly. The Yankee catchers (the real ones, not Posada) will have ample opportunity to become familiar with the pitchers in Tampa.

  54. Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    If Thome could be signed for less than $2M, and the Yanks have no intention of playing Posada at C, then it would be logical for the Yanks to release Posada and sign Thome.

    Won’t happen, of course.

  55. Mell December 16th, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    “Do you truly believe that a manager who is as big a control freak as Joe Girardi isn’t calling the pitches from the bench?”

    Yes

  56. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Even Cervelli calls his own game.

    I still remember Marte throwing him under the bus for pitch selection one time.

  57. Patrick December 16th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    Yeah it’s pretty clear that the Yankees don’t believe Montero can be a starting catcher in the bigs.

  58. Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    ““Are there any stats sites that let you separate pitchers stats by the catcher they threw to?”

    It will be a waste of time studying it.

  59. Patrick December 16th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    If Thome could be signed for less than $2M, and the Yanks have no intention of playing Posada at C, then it would be logical for the Yanks to release Posada and sign Thome.

    Won’t happen, of course.

    You realize they’d still have to pay Posada right? That’s not logical at all…

  60. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    Jerkface – A friendly wager then? No sense in bickering about this all day.

    here are my stupilations:
    Posada catches 10 games or more
    Montero or Cervelli break ST as the primary backup
    No serious injury to Martin/Cervelli/Montero that forces Posada into even a primary back-up role
    No player is signed that takes over Posada’s role as the primary DH

    Acceptable?

  61. Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    “Yeah it’s pretty clear that the Yankees don’t believe Montero can be a starting catcher in the bigs.”

    At least in 2011. That was my conclusion from the proposed Lee-Montero deal and boy did I catch grief around here.

  62. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    The no injury clause has to go.

  63. blake December 16th, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    When the winter started Montero was going to compete for the starting catcher position….now they have a new starting catcher in the wake of losing Cliff Lee and Montero ” may make the team as a backup”. If they are considering trading him then I certainly hope they know what they’re doing and make the right decision.

  64. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Did everyone here really think Montero was going to start 100 games at catcher his first year?

  65. Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Patrick-

    Of course I realize the Yanks would have to pay Posada anyway. If they didn’t, my comment would have been a commonplace thought and not the thought-provoking post it really was.

  66. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    jerkface – then yuo can forget it. Obviously Posada will catch games if one of the 2 primary catchers gets injured. so you are not sure of your 10 games at all, is what you are telling me?

  67. CountryClub December 16th, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    I’m fine with Montero starting the yr in AAA. Let him get hot down there and then bring him up a month or two into the season.

    It’ll be like trading for a bat.

  68. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    “Yeah it’s pretty clear that the Yankees don’t believe Montero can be a starting catcher in the bigs.”

    I would change that to read:

    “Yeah it’s pretty clear that the Yankees don’t believe Montero should be a starting catcher in the bigs yet.”

  69. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    so you are not sure of your 10 games at all, is what you are telling me?

    You’re telling me that you will void the bet if something bad happens to cervelli or martin or montero. That means you’re not so sure.

  70. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    Patrick December 16th, 2010 at 2:34 pm
    Yeah it’s pretty clear that the Yankees don’t believe Montero can be a starting catcher in the bigs.

    —————–

    I don’t think that’s the case at all.

    I think they want to ease him in slowly. Look, Martin fell in their laps – it’s a no brainer to sign him.

  71. rodg12 December 16th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    # Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    jerkface – then yuo can forget it. Obviously Posada will catch games if one of the 2 primary catchers gets injured. so you are not sure of your 10 games at all, is what you are telling me?
    ———————————-
    I read that as you being completely unsure about your claim that he will catch less than 10 games this year. Not the other way around.

    All Jerkface said is that Posada will catch double digit games this year. Nothing else….

  72. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    Assuming Martin is not a total flop…

    Montero stays in AAA all season (barring a ML-roster catcher injury)
    Next year when posada retires or is not resigned montero will be worked in as the primary backup to martin (a la posada/girardi).
    With posada out of the way there will be more room to squeeze montero in at DH when he is not catching, so his bat does not rot on the bench all year.

  73. coney1 December 16th, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    SI_JonHeyman hearing now jenks on verge of deal with #redsox

  74. Phranchise December 16th, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    I am really start like the idea of adding Mark Buerhle into this rotation. Here’s a few reasons why. He won’t cost a ton, or you would hope no where close to other guys talked about. He is 31 years old. He’s signed for one more year at $14 million so makes it easier if White Sox want to reduce salary. He has 10 years of 200 innings pitched. So is healthy and an innings eater. He isn’t a hard thrower so the innings should be that much on his arm. He was the #1 pitcher for the White Sox and during the 2005 post season was in 4 games 3.47 era and .9 whip. 2008 he just had one start and wasn’t as good. His whip is lower than many other names discussed. He is left handed. He averages 6.4 innings pitched per game. He reminds me of a poor man’s Andy Pettite or Jimmy Key. I think he would be a fantastic veteran for this team in the #4 or 5 slot and I wouldn’t mind seeing them keep him beyond this year. I think he is by far one of the most consistent pitchers and you can expect him to repeat what he has done. Zambrano, Carmona, etc may be high end starters or could implode and I feel they will be more likely to implode here than thrive.

  75. Mell December 16th, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    “Did everyone here really think Montero was going to start 100 games at catcher his first year?”

    60 or so was my guess. Not as confident about that now though.

  76. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    Isn’t it more likely, if it is as you say, that if major injury occurs they will simply bring in the next catcher? Not Posada? I’m not taking some stupid injury-clause bet.

  77. Erica in NY December 16th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Johnny Damon should come back as a 4th Outfielder.

    Why?
    1) The Yankees can use him
    2) He hits well at New Yankee Stadium
    3) He is unemployed
    4) He wants to get closer to 3,000 hits (he is probably too far to ever hit it, but I know he has that goal)

  78. blake December 16th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Red Sox close to signing Jenks according to Heyman.

  79. Angelo Silecchio December 16th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
    hearing now jenks on verge of deal with #redsox

    Damn redsox

  80. Dee December 16th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Red Sox close to signing Jenks according to Heyman.

    Ughhh….Cash needs to start getting aggressive. For serious.

  81. Erica in NY December 16th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    And for those who don’t know….

    I have asked for Johnny Damon for my birthday:-)

  82. Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    “I think they want to ease him in slowly. Look, Martin fell in their laps – it’s a no brainer to sign him.”

    $4M + incentives for a catcher with an aggregate OPS+ of 86 over the last two years is not lap-falling.

    It is a recognition that they needed a catcher.

  83. Angelo Silecchio December 16th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    # Erica in NY December 16th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Johnny Damon should come back as a 4th Outfielder.

    Why?
    1) The Yankees can use him
    2) He hits well at New Yankee Stadium
    3) He is unemployed
    4) He wants to get closer to 3,000 hits (he is probably too far to ever hit it, but I know he has that goal)
    ———————-

    Erica, I think the Yanks want a 4th OFer who can actually play the OF! haha, they’d also prob prefer he be right handed (just my guess) since gardy and granderson are LH

  84. CountryClub December 16th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Jenks as a 7th inning guy for Boston would be pretty good. Not sure how they can justify paying a 7th inning guy what he’s demanding, though.

  85. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    I dunno Wave, there is certainly upside there.

  86. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    rodg12 – and if his “10 games” comes to fruition because one of the other catchers got hurt, that doesn’t prove that they intended to catch posada at all. Only that he is a catcher and they need one to catch.

    If jerkface was so sure that posada was going to catch 10+ games, it should be without someone else getting hurt and clearing the role for him.

  87. CoreyMac December 16th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    Jenks, Bard, Papelbon….7th 8th 9th…..

    Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Beckett, Matsuzaka……

    Pedroia, Crawford, Gonzalez, Youkilis, Ortiz Batting order 2-5

    Not looking good Yankees fans.

  88. Cashman needs to go December 16th, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    I read no less than 2 times that good old cashman said “As long as he’s healthy” when describing what Martin can bring to the club and a couple more times mentioned his “injuries” and how he has been average because of them th elast few years. Well that instills 100% confidence that the catcher position is in good hands next year.

    Plan B in full effect…..

  89. Angelo Silecchio December 16th, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    # Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    “I think they want to ease him in slowly. Look, Martin fell in their laps – it’s a no brainer to sign him.”

    $4M + incentives for a catcher with an aggregate OPS+ of 86 over the last two years is not lap-falling.

    It is a recognition that they needed a catcher.
    ————————–

    Ya, they definitely realized they needed another catcher. Posada as a catcher is pretty much over. From what I’ve read it seems like Posada started to ignore the team scouting reports and would call games as he saw fit. He would also try and stick to his game plan rather than that of the pitchers. That could explain why someone like Pettitte, who likes his catchers to call the game for the most part, could get along with Jorge while someone like Burnett couldn’t.

  90. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Why can’t my assuredness come from expecting lost playing time due to injury? Everyone saying Posada will catch 0 games must expect another catcher to step in for anyone injured.

  91. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Jerkface – No, I think it is more likely they would use the 3rd catcher already on the ML roster rather than pull Montero up into a backup role with no hope of DH in his downtime.

    I really don’t see any scenario where Montero ends up in the majors this year, barring a late season call-up or him totally outperforming Martin.

  92. CountryClub December 16th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
    “I think they want to ease him in slowly. Look, Martin fell in their laps – it’s a no brainer to sign him.”

    $4M + incentives for a catcher with an aggregate OPS+ of 86 over the last two years is not lap-falling.

    It is a recognition that they needed a catcher

    ——————-

    4 mil for a catcher that’s still in his prime and who can easily bounce back from a couple ur’s worth of injuries is a good move. The Yanks needed an experienced catcher and he didnt cost them any players. Plus, he can actually throw runners out. Something Cervelli and Posada did not do last yr.

  93. Angelo Silecchio December 16th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
    Heard this: The Red Sox have agreed to a two-year, $12 million deal with Bobby Jenks.
    ———————————

    balls

  94. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    jerkface – because that’s not where this converastion started. i totally believe posada will catch 10 games if one of the other catchers gets hurt. if they don’t get hurt, he won’t catch 10 games. simple as that.

  95. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    news flash – bobby jenks is not good.

  96. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
    “I think they want to ease him in slowly. Look, Martin fell in their laps – it’s a no brainer to sign him.”

    $4M + incentives for a catcher with an aggregate OPS+ of 86 over the last two years is not lap-falling.

    It is a recognition that they needed a catcher.

    ————————

    $4 million for a starting catcher is a steal.

    Best case scenario – Martin returns to All-Star form and the Yankees have a 27 year old catcher for a cheap price.

    Not best but not worse – Martin flops – Yankees transition Montero in and Martin becomes a slightly expensive backup.

    Worst case – Martin flops, Montero flops. Posada gets hurt because catching everyday doesn’t agree with him anymore and Francisco Cervelli is the everyday catcher.

  97. Mell December 16th, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    “4 mil for a catcher that’s still in his prime and who can easily bounce back from a couple ur’s worth of injuries is a good move.”

    He didn’t have a couple years worth of injuries. He sucked for two years then got injured.

  98. 108 stitches December 16th, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    With Matsui now with his 2nd team since leaving the Yankees, let’s see if Russell Martin gets issued his No. 55.
    Chad Moeller got No. 18 issued to him last year and Damon wasn’t gone a full year at the time.
    While on the subject, a good site for checking on past wearers of numbers :

    http://www.ultimateyankees.com/jerseynumbers.htm

  99. Phranchise December 16th, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    If Jenks is in more than likely Papelbon is out so we shall see. And they probably would just be looking for a few prospects for Paps so they can avoid paying him this year and the distraction he might cause with his contract coming up. He’s one guy they would never offer arbitration to or pay him any contract extension since they have Bard. Jenks would bridge Bard to the closers role this year and next. Makes a lot of sense for them. Not sure what money it costs, but the Yankees really need to start to get going on the pen. There were so many free agents there for the first time in a while, now they are signing and the price tags going up. Being slow to the market will either cost them money or we will end up with the weaker options.

  100. mick December 16th, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    Is Cash asleep at the wheel?
    We have no need for Jenks?
    Who is he targetting…Feliciano and /or Fuentes at bargain rates…fine…anyone else out there?

  101. West Coast Yankee Fan December 16th, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    Crap Sox signed Jenks

  102. Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    “and who can easily bounce back”

    He could, but more often than not those are losing words.

  103. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    Angelo Silecchio December 16th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
    Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
    Heard this: The Red Sox have agreed to a two-year, $12 million deal with Bobby Jenks.

    ——————

    Bard, Jenks and Papsmear – jeeze don’t let that team get into the 6th with a lead.

  104. Phranchise December 16th, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    Jenks signs 2 years $12 million bucks. Come on Cashman. At least get one arm, we need multiple.

  105. CountryClub December 16th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    Buster is saying 2 yrs and 12 mil for jenks.

  106. Angelo Silecchio December 16th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    Phrancise,

    I can’t see anyone giving up a lot of value for Pap though. Makes $10+ mil, coming off a bad year, and is in his last yr of arb….weird move.

  107. Cashman needs to go December 16th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    Red Sox close to signing Jenks according to Heyman.

    Ughhh….Cash needs to start getting aggressive. For serious.

    ************************

    Damn that net that Cashman threw in the waters must have major holes in it – so far its caught a crippled catcher and a pitcher who can’t pitch – oh but it did catch a fish and a tarpen so at least cashy will eat well tonight..

  108. blake December 16th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    I think I would have given Jenks or Wood 2/12……unless the Yanks have their eye on Soriano which I doubt.

  109. Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    # CoreyMac December 16th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    Jenks, Bard, Papelbon….7th 8th 9th…..

    Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Beckett, Matsuzaka……

    Pedroia, Crawford, Gonzalez, Youkilis, Ortiz Batting order 2-5

    Not looking good Yankees fans.
    —————————————–

    Assuming papelbon is still in the mix. you think they are going to pay the back end of their bullpen $20 mm this year? i tend to think they wont.

  110. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Mell December 16th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
    “4 mil for a catcher that’s still in his prime and who can easily bounce back from a couple ur’s worth of injuries is a good move.”

    He didn’t have a couple years worth of injuries. He sucked for two years then got injured.

    ——————

    Mell,

    Think of it this way – if he continues to suck then you can post on here everyday next season “I Told You So” but in the meantime the deal is done, what’s the point in whining about it now?

  111. CountryClub December 16th, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Everyone realizes that Papelbon has gotten progressively worse since the end of 2008, right? As a matter of fact, I bet he gets traded or loses his closer’s job before the yr is over.

  112. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Jenks is not is shutdown closer. no idea why anyone would mistake him for that. The only reason he kept his job in Chicago for as long as he did is because Ozzie is nuts. closers with 1.35 whips are not good.

  113. mick December 16th, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    For a team ready to blow 25m per on Lee, we still seem loke pennypinchers…why is that?

  114. Mstarr116 December 16th, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Did you guys watch jenks at all last year? He was terrible, just because the red sox sign someone with a name doesn’t make them a great pickup.

  115. Angelo Silecchio December 16th, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    # Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    # CoreyMac December 16th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    Jenks, Bard, Papelbon….7th 8th 9th…..

    Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Beckett, Matsuzaka……

    Pedroia, Crawford, Gonzalez, Youkilis, Ortiz Batting order 2-5

    Not looking good Yankees fans.
    —————————————–

    Assuming papelbon is still in the mix. you think they are going to pay the back end of their bullpen $20 mm this year? i tend to think they wont.
    —————————————————————————-

    why not? when we sign 1 RP, not even 2, we’ll be at $20M for the back end of the pen…and not even done yet.

  116. mick December 16th, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    Maybe Chan Ho is available again…on the cheap, of course.

  117. CoreyMac December 16th, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    All that’s really left is Feliciano, Fuentes, Wheeler, Balfour and Soriano…..

    Anything short of signing Feliciano and Soriano disappoints me.

  118. blake December 16th, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    Theo ain’t playin around this winter. Im not giving the Red Sox anything but they have certainly taken an aggressive approach…

  119. Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    “Think of it this way – if he continues to suck then you can post on here everyday next season “I Told You So” but in the meantime the deal is done, what’s the point in whining about it now?”

    Speculating on the impact of Martin’s signing is not a fair topic for comments?

  120. West Coast Yankee Fan December 16th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Great job Cashman. Theo is cleaning your clock.

  121. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    blake December 16th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
    I think I would have given Jenks or Wood 2/12……unless the Yanks have their eye on Soriano which I doubt.

    ————

    I wouldn’t have gone there with Wood – the injury history scared me. I think the Yankees got very lucky to have him healthy and productive for the second half of last season and just because you didn’t get burned the first time doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to play with fire.

    Jenks maybe I would have given it to – but what’s done is done. Here’s hoping he goes all Eric Gagne on them.

  122. Phranchise December 16th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    Jenks as a closer isn’t a great pickup, Jenks as a bullpen arm who still has good stuff and a closer mentality is. Sorry, you gamble with guys. Jenks or Balfour? Feleciano or Fuentes? I mean we have been burned by bullpen arm contracts before but Wood already showed good numbers under pressure here, to me that is worth the money if it is a known commodity. I don’t want to see these guys sign 2 years for 10-12 and get the cheaper guy by a few million bucks.

  123. Angelo Silecchio December 16th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    # Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    “Think of it this way – if he continues to suck then you can post on here everyday next season “I Told You So” but in the meantime the deal is done, what’s the point in whining about it now?”

    Speculating on the impact of Martin’s signing is not a fair topic for comments?
    ————————————-

    to play devils advocate, who did you want the Yanks to get behind the dish?

  124. Yankee Trader December 16th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    Martin had hairline fx right hip[ no torn labrum?], now with torn meniscus also on the right. Sounds like Posada might be healthier!!

    Hearing Feliciano might be signed. He has led the league the past 3 years in appearances. Hope he’s not another Sturtz or Proctor waiting to happen.

  125. CountryClub December 16th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    CoreyMac December 16th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    Jenks, Bard, Papelbon….7th 8th 9th…..

    Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Beckett, Matsuzaka……

    Pedroia, Crawford, Gonzalez, Youkilis, Ortiz Batting order 2-5

    Not looking good Yankees fans

    ———————————–

    The sox have legit concerns too. Youk has an old body. Ortiz and Scutaro are old. Beckett, Lackey and Dice K are question marks. Just like the Yanks dont know what Hughes will give them this yr, the Sox dont know what Buchholtz will provide. So far he’s been a two steps up, one step back guy in his young career. Palpebon has gotten worse two yrs in a row.

    How about the Phillies? is anyone calling their rotation old? Utley and Rollins are in their early 30′s. Howard’s bat is slowing down and he cant hit lefties. Ibanez is 38. they lost Werth and are throwing a rookie out there.

    Out of the 3 teams, the yanks will be the only team with any real flexibility come trade deadline time.

  126. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    ID,

    All my discussion about Posada catching a few games is based on a quote from Cashman where he said Posada is the primary DH but he could play himself into catching more games. I will not make any sort of bet which uses some kind of worst case scenario qualifiers. For example, if Martin OPS’s 850 as a catcher, and Montero comes up and OPS .900 as a catcher and shows no signs of being a bum behind the plate, then I don’t think Posada is going to catch very much. Can I get performance clauses on my end of the bet?

    For example, bet is voided if Montero and Martin catch 162 games combined.

  127. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
    “Think of it this way – if he continues to suck then you can post on here everyday next season “I Told You So” but in the meantime the deal is done, what’s the point in whining about it now?”

    Speculating on the impact of Martin’s signing is not a fair topic for comments?

    ——————————–

    It is – but only predicting doom and gloom and saying Cashman shouldn’t have done it is moot given that it’s already done.

  128. Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    # Angelo Silecchio December 16th, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    # Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    # CoreyMac December 16th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    Jenks, Bard, Papelbon….7th 8th 9th…..

    Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Beckett, Matsuzaka……

    Pedroia, Crawford, Gonzalez, Youkilis, Ortiz Batting order 2-5

    Not looking good Yankees fans.
    —————————————–

    Assuming papelbon is still in the mix. you think they are going to pay the back end of their bullpen $20 mm this year? i tend to think they wont.
    —————————————————————————-

    why not? when we sign 1 RP, not even 2, we’ll be at $20M for the back end of the pen…and not even done yet.

    ———————————————————–

    A – mariano makes $15 mm a year…….papelbon aint mariano so the comparison isnt fair
    B – papelbon is done after this year in boston anyway so its very possible they try and save the money and cash in with a trade for him now.

  129. Phranchise December 16th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    No way Soriano is signing here. Hopefully Fuentes, but more likely Feliciano. And Wheeler is a nice enough arm, but more than likely Balfour.

  130. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    appearances for feliciano consist of throwing 7 pitches and then sitting back down on the bench.

  131. Chuck December 16th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    Red Sox to sign Jenks, 2 years $12 million.

  132. Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    # CountryClub December 16th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Out of the 3 teams, the yanks will be the only team with any real flexibility come trade deadline time.

    ——————————————–

    Gammons has 7 months to hype the sox farm system, he will create some prospects between now and July 31.

  133. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    “Theo ain’t playin around this winter. Im not giving the Red Sox anything but they have certainly taken an aggressive approach…”

    Sox are…well…meh. I’d give them a very slight upgrade over Martinez/Beltre…Jenks is in decline…starting pitching is still questionable.

    Worst case Sox switch places with Rays. Still 2 teams from East make playoffs.

  134. Mell December 16th, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    “Think of it this way – if he continues to suck then you can post on here everyday next season “I Told You So” but in the meantime the deal is done, what’s the point in whining about it now?”

    Just pointing out an incorrect statement, Chip. Not crying about anything. Stated my case on this matter yesterday.

  135. blake December 16th, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Chip,

    Maybe but I also think Wood improved his.cutter while with the Yankees who’d made him more effective. All relief pitchers are somewhat of a risk. Im starting to feel that Cashman may have a blockbuster in the works…..just a feeling.

  136. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 2:54 pm
    ID,

    All my discussion about Posada catching a few games is based on a quote from Cashman where he said Posada is the primary DH but he could play himself into catching more games. I will not make any sort of bet which uses some kind of worst case scenario qualifiers. For example, if Martin OPS’s 850 as a catcher, and Montero comes up and OPS .900 as a catcher and shows no signs of being a bum behind the plate, then I don’t think Posada is going to catch very much. Can I get performance clauses on my end of the bet?

    For example, bet is voided if Montero and Martin catch 162 games combined.

    _——————————————-

    And I still return to the fact that when Cashman said that he was looking at a highly talented prospect who is still only a 20 year old rookie and Cervelli being his only two other catchers.

    Now he has a 27-year old former All-Star to pair with either that 20 year old prospect or Cervelli so for Jorge to “Play himself into a greater catching role” is going to be much harder.

  137. Angelo Silecchio December 16th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    Carlo,

    Whether or not Papelbum and Rivera are comparable isn’t the issue. Obviously I’m not going to say that stiff is near Mo’s level. The point is you said they wouldnt spend $20M on the back end of the pen, why not? If anything else Papelbum not being on Mo’s level means they need to spend even more to get even with us.

  138. Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    “to play devils advocate, who did you want the Yanks to get behind the dish?”

    It was Mell’s comment, I was just defending it. I don’t think the Martin comments are concerned with who the Yanks should have signed instead, but rather what it means to Montero’s, Posada’s and the Yankees’ future.

  139. rodg12 December 16th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    # Phranchise December 16th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    No way Soriano is signing here. Hopefully Fuentes, but more likely Feliciano. And Wheeler is a nice enough arm, but more than likely Balfour.
    —————————–
    Balfour’s a Type A free agent. No chance we sign him…

  140. wernerman December 16th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    The Yankees have no plan and they are happy with it. The people they are screwing are their season ticket holders.

  141. austinmac December 16th, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    I don’t see why 2yrs. at $12M is a bad deal for the Red Sox. I wish the Yankees had gotten him. Now, we wait for Soriano to sign elsewhere, but Feliciano may be coming. All who think this off-season isn’t going very badly, I respectfully and completely disagree.

  142. Phranchise December 16th, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Look, the Granderson trade came out of nowhere so I will never discount Cashman, but not feeling comfortable right now.

  143. Phranchise December 16th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Balfour is type A as well jeez. Yeah you’re right, not coming here.

  144. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    blake December 16th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
    Chip,

    Maybe but I also think Wood improved his.cutter while with the Yankees who’d made him more effective. All relief pitchers are somewhat of a risk. Im starting to feel that Cashman may have a blockbuster in the works…..just a feeling.

    ————————

    Not questioning Wood’s effectiveness – just his health.

    I tend to agree – wouldn’t shock me to wake up Christmas morning to a Greinke under the tree.

  145. mick December 16th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    All relief pitchers are somewhat of a risk. Im starting to feel that Cashman may have a blockbuster in the works…..just a feeling.
    ====================
    Josh Johnson?

  146. Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    # Angelo Silecchio December 16th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    Carlo,

    Whether or not Papelbum and Rivera are comparable isn’t the issue. Obviously I’m not going to say that stiff is near Mo’s level. The point is you said they wouldnt spend $20M on the back end of the pen, why not? If anything else Papelbum not being on Mo’s level means they need to spend even more to get even with us.
    —————————————————–

    The point is that he is gone after this year…..i do not believe they just paid $6 mm a year for a closer to make him a 7th inning guy when they have said for a year now Bard is their future closer. It would not shock me at all to see them deal papelbon no, move bard to closer gig and have jenks as the 8th inning guy or the closer in the event bard slips.

  147. MoRings42 December 16th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Chad Jennings December 16th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
    You’d prefer that I only tag a player if he’s specifically mentioned by name in a post? That’s usually the case, but I think most people can read this and understand that it has an impact on Cervelli, even if I never mentioned his name. Sorry if that confused you, MoRings.

    —————————–

    I would prefer that. I do understand it impacts Cervelli but that was apart of my point.. how does it? The article fails to mention what the plans are with him now. Is he going back to the minors? still back up? being traded? That’s what I would like to know.

  148. Angelo Silecchio December 16th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    # Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    “to play devils advocate, who did you want the Yanks to get behind the dish?”

    It was Mell’s comment, I was just defending it. I don’t think the Martin comments are concerned with who the Yanks should have signed instead, but rather what it means to Montero’s, Posada’s and the Yankees’ future.
    ————————————————————–

    Ah ok…it seems pretty clear Posada is the third catching option at this point, and how often do you use your 3rd C? From the lohud article it seems pretty straight forward….Martin is Girardi circa 1999, and Montero is Posada circa 1999.

  149. Yankee Trader December 16th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    I’m not saying I would want any of these potential 8th inning reliever, but Kevin Gregg, Jon Rauch, and Brian Fuentes are still available.

    Joe Nathan recovering from Tommy John, would be a good pickup if Twins paid a chunk of his salary.

    Wonder if we could trade for Joel Hanrahan of the Pirates or lefty Sean Marshall of the Cubs and put him in the rotation?

  150. mick December 16th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    wouldn’t shock me to wake up Christmas morning to a Greinke under the tree.
    ==================================================
    I read that once in a Dr Seuss book…

  151. rodg12 December 16th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    # Phranchise December 16th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Balfour is type A as well jeez. Yeah you’re right, not coming here.
    ——————————–
    Yeah, just shows how ridiculous those rankings are.

  152. Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    While the yankees play it coy…..i will wait patiently……i believe come April, this rotation which have a very different feel to it then what we currently think it will look like…..ie: filled with question marks and what ifs.

  153. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    “Im starting to feel that Cashman may have a blockbuster in the works…..just a feeling.”

    I agree. But it scares me. We’ll get someone decent and then watch Montero blossom into Miguel Cabrera somewhere else. I’ve seen this movie before.

  154. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Jerkface – How old is that quote? That was like early november wasn’t it? If it is from before they signed a starting catcher, I would say it is largely irrelevant now.

  155. Angelo Silecchio December 16th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    FYI—

    1998 & 1999 Posada caught about 110 games and Girardi caught the difference.

  156. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    With Jenks up there – just a thought:

    Mets get: Pap, Ellsbury, Dice and a prospect
    Red Sox get: Reyes and Beltran

  157. Dee December 16th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    “Im starting to feel that Cashman may have a blockbuster in the works…..just a feeling.”

    He better. I’m telling you…give us Rasmus/Carpenter and Yankee fans will be overjoyed. It’s not likely, but hey…after this offseason, I can dream right?

  158. 108 stitches December 16th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Bullpen arms are falling like dominoes this week unlike the boring winter meetings a.k.a. the week of Tweets and Twitters.
    Hard to imagine Cashman not making a splash and soon. He’s got Lee money and prospects. Has he gone delusional ? Did Hal Steinbrenner give him a plump bonus for keeping the payroll down ?
    Jeter, Rivera, Posada, and Pettitte (if he returns) must be wondering if these are the same Yankees that always provided the missing pieces when needed.

  159. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    rodg12 – Balfour was one of the best relievers in all of baseball last year… why is it ridiculous that he would be a type-a FA? Saves are a made up stat.

  160. Cashman needs to go December 16th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    Sox are…well…meh. I’d give them a very slight upgrade over Martinez/Beltre…Jenks is in decline…starting pitching is still questionable

    ******************

    and the yankees starting pitching is ????? think about this – every single person on this blog is PRAYING that a 38 year old pitcher who was hurt the last 3 months of last year will decide to come back for 1 more year so that he can be the #2 pitcher on the staff…..thats not questionable – thats downright scary…stuff that a 4th place team assembles…and even scarier – can you imagine if that 38 year old pitcher decides to retire…

  161. Carl December 16th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    # wernerman December 16th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    The Yankees have no plan and they are happy with it. The people they are screwing are their season ticket holders.

    Jenks was a deal breaker for me!

  162. Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    “From the lohud article it seems pretty straight forward….Martin is Girardi circa 1999, and Montero is Posada circa 1999.”

    I think most would like to conclude that, but I don’t think it follows at all without a large dose of optimism.

  163. CoreyMac December 16th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    The sox have legit concerns too. Youk has an old body. Ortiz and Scutaro are old. Beckett, Lackey and Dice K are question marks. Just like the Yanks dont know what Hughes will give them this yr, the Sox dont know what Buchholtz will provide. So far he’s been a two steps up, one step back guy in his young career. Palpebon has gotten worse two yrs in a row.
    =========================================

    Boston has far fewer question marks. Don’t be so high on these 2011 Yankees. (As it currently stands). I’d take Pap over everyone but Mo, I’d take Bard over everyone but Mo, I’d take Jenks over everyone but Mo. Current team outlooks.

    Bullpen 7th Inning-9th:

    Robertson, Joba, Rivera
    Jenks, Bard, Papelbon

    Starting Rotation:

    Sabathia, Hughes, Burnett, Nova, Mitre
    Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Beckett, Matsuzaka

    Lineup:

    Ellsbury, Pedroia, Crawford, Gonzalez, Youkilis, Ortiz, Drew, Scutaro, Saltalamacchia
    Gardner, Swisher, Cano, Teixeira, Rodriguez, Jeter, Granderson, Posada, Martin

    Bench:

    4th OF: Yankees: Golson. Red Sox: Mike Cameron
    Infielder: Yankees: Nunez / Pena. Red Sox: Jed Lowrie
    Backup Catcher: Yankees: Montero. Red Sox: Varitek

  164. CountryClub December 16th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    The Yankees pen will be fine. Unlike last yr, where all of the arms in the minors were still a yr away (other than Nova), some will be able to contribute in the 2nd half of the yr if need be.

  165. JoeMimic December 16th, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    I’m still on the Reed Johnson boat, he’s above average defensively and he’s a lifetime .312 hitter against them including .301 in 100 abs last year. Plus he won’t come with a hefty price tag.

  166. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Yankee Trader December 16th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
    I’m not saying I would want any of these potential 8th inning reliever, but Kevin Gregg, Jon Rauch, and Brian Fuentes are still available.

    Joe Nathan recovering from Tommy John, would be a good pickup if Twins paid a chunk of his salary.

    Wonder if we could trade for Joel Hanrahan of the Pirates or lefty Sean Marshall of the Cubs and put him in the rotation?

    —————————-

    I have long lusted over Hanrahan and Marshall – if Brian could get one or both of them I would be thrilled.

    I think Nathan makes a ton of sense – I think Aardsma makes sense for the same reasons.

    I do not trust Joba Chamberlain as far as I can throw him and his ballooning beltsize is making that distance shorter and shorter each day. I don’t particularly trust David Robertson – he seems to go one month hot, one month cold, one month scared to death.

  167. austinmac December 16th, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Josh Johnson and King Felix are not available. Please stop. All possible trade ideas are fun, but these guys will not be traded.

    I wish the Yankees would spend money on a seventh or eighth inning guy. I don’t understand a Yankee fan criticizing the Sox for doing so.

  168. Angelo Silecchio December 16th, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    # Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    With Jenks up there – just a thought:

    Mets get: Pap, Ellsbury, Dice and a prospect
    Red Sox get: Reyes and Beltran
    ————————————-

    I need to get you in my fantasy baseball league next year. You’d be wheelin’ and dealin’! lol

  169. JoeMimic December 16th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Cash always seems to be able to make deals with the Pirates but I’m not sure they’d deal Hanrahan…At least not yet.

  170. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Chip – At least Joba and Dave are doing it in the higher intensity environments, against better competition. Hanrahan and Marshall couldn’t hold jobs in NL bullpens.

  171. JoeMimic December 16th, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    How did Bobby Jenks get two years 12 million? I really don’t see this ending well for the Red Sox.

  172. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    Angelo Silecchio December 16th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
    # Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    With Jenks up there – just a thought:

    Mets get: Pap, Ellsbury, Dice and a prospect
    Red Sox get: Reyes and Beltran
    ————————————-

    I need to get you in my fantasy baseball league next year. You’d be wheelin’ and dealin’! lol
    ———————

    Damn right – I’m the trader Jack of my fantasy league.

  173. wernerman December 16th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    Cash man has a blockbuster going. He is going to rappel down the empire state building tomorrow in a Santa claus suit.

  174. Phranchise December 16th, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Here’s your relievers left

    Dotel (been there)
    Fuentes – lefty, will be some money, but would like him
    Gregg – career year, not sold, type B
    Qualls – no thanks
    Rauch – interesting, but for some reason not well though of apparently
    Soriano – Type A, no shot, but would love him
    Wood – probably ain’t happening, but not sure why not if he doesn’t sign as closer
    Balfour – Type A, nope
    Coffey – at one time was well thought of but who knows
    Corpas
    Farnsworth – uuhhhh
    Delcarmen – Sox gave up, no thanks
    Chris Ray
    Riske
    Shields
    Wheeler – I would grab him, but not sure what role he would fill
    Feliciano
    Ohman
    Romero

    I mean lots of more names, but don’t think anyone more notable.

    Starting to get ugly

  175. rodg12 December 16th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    # Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    rodg12 – Balfour was one of the best relievers in all of baseball last year… why is it ridiculous that he would be a type-a FA? Saves are a made up stat.
    ——————————————————————-
    It’s completely out of whack with his value.

  176. Angelo Silecchio December 16th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    for so many years i wanted shields on the yanks badly…now they can have him and i wouldnt touch him with a 10 ft pole

  177. Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    # Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    “Im starting to feel that Cashman may have a blockbuster in the works…..just a feeling.”

    I agree. But it scares me. We’ll get someone decent and then watch Montero blossom into Miguel Cabrera somewhere else. I’ve seen this movie before.
    —————————————————————–

    When did you see it?

    Abreu for CJ Henry?
    Randy Johnson for Dioner Navarro?
    David Cone for Marty Janzen, Jason Jarvis and Mike Gordon?
    Paulie for Roberto Kelly?

    Please post a list of yankee trades in the last 5-10 years where we dealt prospects and got smoked in the deal. Thanks

  178. CountryClub December 16th, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    CoreyMac,

    I’m not arguing that right now the Sox pitching staff (non Mo division) looks better than the Yanks. But some people act like they’re unbeatable and that’s just not the case. i said last yr before the season that 3/5 of their rotation were overrated and brittle, and I was right. And those same 3 are still overrated (well, maybe people finally accept that Dice k is nothing special now).

  179. Carl December 16th, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    Hey lets give up our first round pick for a reliever.

  180. JoeMimic December 16th, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    I’ll take Feliciano and Fuentes if you can get them both signed for under 8 million but with Jenks getting so much there is no way.

  181. Triple Short of a Cycle December 16th, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Magglio wanted 2 years but signed back with the tigers for 1. Yankee players are just the opposite. They ask for more years then the Yanks offer all the time

  182. Erica in NY December 16th, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    You forgot the illustrious Wilson Betemit for Nick Swisher

  183. Triple Short of a Cycle December 16th, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Carl,

    No lets sit and be patient while Rome burns

  184. wernerman December 16th, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Take a risk with Riske……Hal and Hank can sell pins with it on and make more money.

  185. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    It was difficult watching Betemit turn into Miguel Cabrera last season, right before my eyes :x

    .297 .378 .511 .889

  186. JoeMimic December 16th, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    How dare you sully the name of Wilson Betemit!

  187. Mell December 16th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    Good news. Red Sox just evened out that Gonzalez trade by sending Eric Patterson to the Padres as the PTBNL.

  188. Mike Ri December 16th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    Patience People Patience

  189. blake December 16th, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Hopedevil,

    I have that fear as well.

    Chip,

    Wouldn’t surprise me either….don’t know how I ld feel about it until I knew what they gave up.

  190. Captain Clutch December 16th, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Buster_ESPN The Red Sox have agreed to a two-year, $12 million deal with Bobby Jenks.
    ——–

    Trading Papelbum???

  191. wernerman December 16th, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Feliciano …he can entertain between innings with his guitar…..oh sorry that is Jose feliciano…Feliz navidad

  192. Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    It drives me crazy that everyone talks like the Yankees have historically traded prospects for garbage and the prospects have gone on to be superstars. Is Mike Lowell the best prospect we ever traded?

  193. Prete Funk Era December 16th, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    the comments on this Seattle blog at least shows that the fans are “Somewhat open” to trading King Felix.

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....the_y.html

  194. Triple Short of a Cycle December 16th, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    Mike Ri,

    Patience for what? Felix and Johnson are not on the block. Any other pitchers are not worth trading Montero for. What exactly are we being patient for? Another Chan Ho Park or Randy Winn?

  195. tampayank December 16th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    the off season winner is clearly the Red Sox :(

  196. CountryClub December 16th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    He’s insane:

    SI_JonHeyman
    a trade that would make perfect sense but would never happen: papelbon to the #yanks. #redsox clearly ready to move on now

  197. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 16th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    Wow, coming in on the end of this. Just reading (Chuck’s post) that Sux are signing Jenks. Let me say that if nothing else, it has to be quite a blow to the ego of Papelbu’t iton’t kid yourselves into thinking that Jenks won’t see the 9th inning if Papelbum continues to pitch like a closer on crack.

    The last time I felt sickened about anything the Sux did was when they got Urbina at the zero hour. And that didn’t work out too well for them. As someone who believes in magic (Aaron Boone, Aaron Small – hey, are there any Aarons on the market?) I’ll still sit by and hope that we hit gold dust with whatever moves the Yankees make or do not make. Wouldn’t it be the sweetest thing in the world if our rotation, whatever it may be, ends up turning into the rotation to beat? Matt Cain had a good year in 2009 but didn’t look real good the several years before. Sanchez had losing years in 08 and 09, we all know Zito turned into an accident waiting to happen, and Bumgarner just came up. Other than Lincecum, was anybody worried about SF’s rotation? At least we have hope with Huges. And as always, I will not give up on AJ until the last bell is rung. So since I believe the only thing to fear is fear itself, I will wait optimistically by and trust that the Yankees will find a way.

    :)

    ***************

    I am so happy that those who listened to that link enjoyed and appreciated it. Did you know that Handel composed The Messiah in 24 days? If anyone ever has a chance and is so inclined, listen to the Amen Chorus (the very last chorus .) Handel managed to make the voices sound exactly like church bells. I get goosebumps just thinking about it.

  198. Cashman needs to go December 16th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    When did you see it?

    Randy Johnson for Dioner Navarro?

    ***************

    Cashman originally offered robinson cano and dioner navarro for johnson – and it was the D’BAcks that refused it….

    then again how many prospects did the yankees keep that blossomed in the last 10 years:

    Cano
    Gardner? (yeah lets wait a few more years on that one)
    Hughes? (see gardner)

    and thats about it….moral of the story – you can’t trade away possible stud players if you don’t develop any….

  199. wernerman December 16th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    That would be a dumb move for boston….jerks should have never been the closer in Chicago…Ozzie liked him

  200. Mell December 16th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    “Trading Papelbum???”

    Can’t imagine it. He’s will make close to $12M this year and is an FA come October. Probably not a lot of value there.

  201. JoeMimic December 16th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    I really think Cashman is waiting on Pettitte. Other GMs know right now we have nobody else so they’re going to ask for way too much. If Cash gets Pettitte back in the fold I think they would be less likely to do so. I mean we’re still going to pay the Yankee tax no doubt but the hit might be lessened.

  202. CountryClub December 16th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    tampayank December 16th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
    the off season winner is clearly the Red Sox

    ————

    The good news is that winning the off season means nothing.

  203. Carl December 16th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    # Triple Short of a Cycle December 16th, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Carl,

    No lets sit and be patient while Rome burns

    Jenks, the savior of Rome.

  204. ac1 December 16th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    i think a few million more will entice pettitte.

    give him the 16 M he used to make and i think he comes back.

  205. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    “When did you see it?

    Abreu for CJ Henry?
    Randy Johnson for Dioner Navarro?
    David Cone for Marty Janzen, Jason Jarvis and Mike Gordon?
    Paulie for Roberto Kelly?

    Please post a list of yankee trades in the last 5-10 years where we dealt prospects and got smoked in the deal. Thanks”

    Please point out where in my post I said it was a Yankees deal. THANKS.

    Here is one.

    Bartolo Colon for Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips

    My point is giving up Montero (or other top tier prospects) could EASILY turn into a fiasco like that. I believe that Greinke for Montero/etc would turn out to be similar. Obviously time would tell.

    Helps when you don’t read into people’s posts implications that are not there.

  206. Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    # Cashman needs to go December 16th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    When did you see it?

    Randy Johnson for Dioner Navarro?

    ***************

    Cashman originally offered robinson cano and dioner navarro for johnson – and it was the D’BAcks that refused it….

    then again how many prospects did the yankees keep that blossomed in the last 10 years:

    Cano
    Gardner? (yeah lets wait a few more years on that one)
    Hughes? (see gardner)

    and thats about it….moral of the story – you can’t trade away possible stud players if you don’t develop any….

    ————————————————

    my point is that people act like you cant trade prospects because we get burned all the time doing so………that simply is an incorrect premise. absurd actually.

  207. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    blake December 16th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
    Hopedevil,

    I have that fear as well.

    Chip,

    Wouldn’t surprise me either….don’t know how I ld feel about it until I knew what they gave up.

    —————————-

    Gardner, Joba, Eduardo Nunez, Austin Romine, Andrew Brackman

  208. ac1 December 16th, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    BloggingBombers Source: Yankees “exploring” Rafael Soriano

    ___

    try to stay under 10 mil.

  209. CountryClub December 16th, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    The Yankees didint develop prospects because George didnt believe in it. That’s a fact. In 3 or 4 short yrs, Cash has built a top 7 farm system.

  210. longtimefan December 16th, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    If fans reading between the lines on the pick up of Martin can see the yankees don’t seem to have any trust in the young aspiring catchers so can every GM in the game. Weakens the trade value of Montero because of the ? on his defense–good bat, ? defense as a catcher.
    IMO, Pettitte will most likely sign for one more(again) year @ around $14. million but will still leave major questions about starting rotation. The possible signing of Pedro F. from the Mets is not impressive especially in the AL-E.

  211. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
    “When did you see it?

    Abreu for CJ Henry?
    Randy Johnson for Dioner Navarro?
    David Cone for Marty Janzen, Jason Jarvis and Mike Gordon?
    Paulie for Roberto Kelly?

    Please post a list of yankee trades in the last 5-10 years where we dealt prospects and got smoked in the deal. Thanks”
    ———————-

    Mike Lowell for Ed Yarnell
    Nick Johnson, Randy Choate and Juan Rivera for Javy Vazquez

  212. upstate kate December 16th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    Hi Trisha
    I enjoyed your link. Its a crazy week for me as we have auditors coming next week, so I really enjoyed taking a break to watch it…put me back in the holiday spirit

  213. ac1 December 16th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    The possible signing of Pedro F. from the Mets is not impressive especially in the AL-E.
    __

    Who do you recommend?

  214. Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    # Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    “Im starting to feel that Cashman may have a blockbuster in the works…..just a feeling.”

    I agree. But it scares me. We’ll get someone decent and then watch Montero blossom into Miguel Cabrera somewhere else. I’ve seen this movie before.

    ——————————————————————————

    where in here do you mention anything that doesnt relate to the yankees? if you were making the general comment that sometimes prospects who have been traded turn into stars……then excuse me for thinking you wouldnt say something so absurdly obvious.

  215. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Actually speaking of Juan Rivera –

    He wouldn’t be a bad guy to try and trade for as a bench bat.

  216. EA December 16th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Man, Sox are making some fantastic moves.

    Jenks peripherals suggest he is due for a major bounceback next year. Had a 2.59 FIP and .378 BABIP or something crazy like that.

    Meanwhile, Cashman signs a catcher with multiple injuries and might sign a 34 yr old lefty specialist… yikes.

    Plan B sucks.

  217. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Nick Johnson, Randy Choate and Juan Rivera for Javy Vazquez

    None of those were prospects by that point though.

  218. Bring in the Goose December 16th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Cashman asleep at the wheel here.

    Money to spend and nothing left on the shelf.

  219. ac1 December 16th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Meanwhile, Cashman signs a catcher with multiple injuries and might sign a 34 yr old lefty specialist… yikes.

    __

    Yeah, except we NEEDED another lefty in the pen.

  220. charlestonchew December 16th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Listen, guys.

    Posada is going to catch some games this year. He just is. He’s a professional catcher and, honestly, not too bad of one. There will be days where Montero DHs and Posada catches, or when Martin catches and Montero DHs. Every scenario is possible. The fact that Posada doesn’t throw out that many runners doesn’t mean that he won’t be catching.

    He calls a pretty good game, honestly. He’s not useless. He’s still a good player and can do more than just hit. He could even play some first base, I’m sure. The guy is a determined, fierce competitor who is eager to prove himself still.

    Let’s not discount him at catcher. Sure, he’s going to be the DH, but he’s also going to catch. That part is obvious. I don’t understand why so many of you are scared of that fact. Do we even know that Martin (who was injured and might be injured again) or Montero are going to perform any better? Or that Jorge’s arm won’t be healthier with less playing time?

  221. wernerman December 16th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Soriano will go for three years at least 30 million. That is a little to rich for the Yankees. Maybe if they give Andy 12 million and let his kids sit in the dugout during the games he will come back.

  222. UnKnown December 16th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    I think the Sox are really pushing the Yankees to have to make some big moves here and soon. I am fan #1 for the patience approach but lets face it, the Sox keep creating distance on paper and Cashman needs to stop the off season bleeding.
    Give the boys in pinstripes a punchers chance next year.

  223. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    We need to sign designated Jenks killer, Jim Thome: Career .500 .500 .750 1.250 vs Jenks!

  224. Mell December 16th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Boston reporters saying Jenks not yet a done deal. Some contracual issues to be resolved. I read this as the Red Sox trying to build in some injury protections.

  225. ac1 December 16th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Money to spend and nothing left on the shelf.

    __

    Soriano is still out there, Feliciano, Fuentes…..

    Basically for what we expected to get, lee is gone (not cashman’s fault), and Crawford, although i dont think we need his offense.

    Still plenty out there.

  226. ZMAN December 16th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    BloggingBombers Source: Yankees “exploring” Rafael Soriano

    —————

    If all of these 2nd-tier relievers were “too expensive” for the Yanks, I can’t imagine Cashman would even consider paying Soriano what he wants.

    Why is Cashman operating like he is Billy Beane? He has $210 million to spend!

    So they are banking on Pillsbury Doguboy Joba to be our EIG next year? Ouch

  227. Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    # Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
    “When did you see it?

    Abreu for CJ Henry?
    Randy Johnson for Dioner Navarro?
    David Cone for Marty Janzen, Jason Jarvis and Mike Gordon?
    Paulie for Roberto Kelly?

    Please post a list of yankee trades in the last 5-10 years where we dealt prospects and got smoked in the deal. Thanks”
    ———————-

    Mike Lowell for Ed Yarnell
    Nick Johnson, Randy Choate and Juan Rivera for Javy Vazquez

    —————————————————

    think you just proved my point……you found two trades, one in 1999 and the other in 2003…..and nick johnson was not a prospect, nor was rivera, both were on the big league team in 2002 and 2003 and played more than a handful of games. i assume we arent losing sleep over randy choate who absolutely stunk for 5 years prior to showing up in tampa and having a good 2009/2010.

  228. wernerman December 16th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    Montero will be down at AAA to start the season. If he doesn’t play everyday it would be a waste for him in NY.

  229. wernerman December 16th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    Montero will be down at AAA to start the season. If he doesn’t play everyday it would be a waste for him in NY.

  230. ac1 December 16th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    If seasons were won on paper, we woould have had 8 championships this decade.

  231. LGY December 16th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    SI_JonHeyman
    a trade that would make perfect sense but would never happen: papelbon to the #yanks. #redsox clearly ready to move on now

    ——————–

    Prime example of why Jon Heyman should keep his baseball opinions to himself.

  232. Captain Clutch December 16th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    The Yanks should try to sign Soriano to a 3 year deal with a mutual option for a 4th year. Tell him Mo closes the 1st year with him helping out if Mo is tired and then if Mo comes back for the 2nd year same thing happens and then he closes years 3 and 4. At Mo’s age who knows how he will hold up and he might retire after next year and they will be left with no one.

  233. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    My trade targets at this point:

    SP: Jake Peavy, Tim Hudson, Zack Greinke

    RP: Joe Nathan, Hong Chi Kuo, Sean Marshall, Joel Hanrahan, David Aardsma, Matt Lindstrom

    OF: Carlos Quentin, Connor Jackson, Juan Rivera, Coco Crisp

    IF: Jeff Keppinger

  234. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    “The Yankees didint develop prospects because George didnt believe in it. That’s a fact. In 3 or 4 short yrs, Cash has built a top 7 farm system.”

    Very true. I think many fans are still fearful of holding on to prospects because the memory of 2008 still lingers.

    But Hughes/Joba/Kennedy were really the tip of the spear – just the first of potential prospects to hit the bigs.

    If the Yanks continue focusing so much effort into player development we’ll be a force to be reckoned with that George only dreamed of…the greatest fear of our competition should not be a team that has the resources to “buy” free agents but a team that can develop great talent and pay to keep them.

  235. tampayank December 16th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Soriano would be a great signing….maybe they are selling that he’ll get some save opportunities this year

  236. Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    # LGY December 16th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    SI_JonHeyman
    a trade that would make perfect sense but would never happen: papelbon to the #yanks. #redsox clearly ready to move on now

    ——————–

    Prime example of why Jon Heyman should keep his baseball opinions to himself.
    ———————–

    what does “redsox clearly ready to move on now” even mean…….is he saying:

    1 – they are ready to move on with their season and are done altering their team for next year
    or
    2 – they are ready to move on from the papelbon era and will deal him

    #2 is something i clearly said 45 minutes ago but people felt that was an absurd suggestion.

  237. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
    We need to sign designated Jenks killer, Jim Thome: Career .500 .500 .750 1.250 vs Jenks!

    ———————-

    sigh

  238. Benny Blanco December 16th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Now that the redsox have nabbed Jenks, unless they trade Papelbum, I cant see the redsox going after soriano. which leads me to believe that the yankees are entertaining bringing soriano in. I could be wrong though.

  239. Triple Short of a Cycle December 16th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Carl,

    Right now Jenks would be the best guy in our bullpen not named Rivera. Underneath his surface stats Jenks had a pretty good year last year.

    Soriano will sign with the Angels. Fuentes will sign with the Rays and the Yanks will be left with Nick Swisher as a set up guy and Russel Martin as their lone free agent pickup

  240. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    tampayank December 16th, 2010 at 3:33 pm
    Soriano would be a great signing….maybe they are selling that he’ll get some save opportunities this year

    ————————

    I’m not denying Soriano would be a good signing but why would he settle for “some save opportunities” when there are a bunch of good teams out there that he could sign with and get all the save opportunities?

    To give up being a closer for two years the Yankees would have to grossly overpay him – what’s the point?

  241. Jerzz December 16th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    This offseason sucks

    Not crowning the Sox, but man, they have had some great moves. If they had stayed healthy, they probably would have made the playoffs ahead of us last year considering how poorly we finished the season.

    Forget Soriano… he’ll go to the Nationals or Rangers. Other teams seem to want to improve their pen more than we do.

  242. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    …more on Soriano…

    Because you would have to grossly overpay him you would turn Soriano from a good closer to a vastly overpaid reliever.

  243. wernerman December 16th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Matt garza for Montero…..think the rays would do it? Now that is a splash…..the rays just hung up….I guess they didn’t like it.

  244. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    “Now that the redsox have nabbed Jenks, unless they trade Papelbum, I cant see the redsox going after soriano. which leads me to believe that the yankees are entertaining bringing soriano in. I could be wrong though.”

    The only real problem with Soriano is that he is a Type A. Giving up draft pick to sign Lee is one thing…but a reliever – even a very good one – is harder to swallow.

  245. vinny-b December 16th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    haven’t complained this offseason…yet.

    however, can the Yankees beat the RedSox to any player this year?? Bobby Jenks to Fenway. Lovely.

    not happy with this development. This team should be willing to spend big money on the bullpen, to make up for no starting pitching. With Jenks off the board, they should be willing to overpay for Rafael Soriano. If not, then maybe the Yanks should make it a rebuilding year in 2010.

  246. Phranchise December 16th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Soriano wants to close. The Angels haven’t spent a dime. I want no part of Soriano at 8-10 per year if Jenks gets 6.

    That’s really the issue. There were so many arms out there. As the market dwindles the price goes up.

    Yankees now have to almost ride it out a bit for the few guys that are left without dates at the end of the dance. Thinking Gregg, Rauch, maybe Fuentes miss out on the big paydays.

  247. Captain Clutch December 16th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Cashman better get busy. He will need to make a trade or 2 to improve this team. They have fallen behind the Sox big time.

  248. Cashman needs to go December 16th, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    CountryClub December 16th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
    The Yankees didint develop prospects because George didnt believe in it. That’s a fact. In 3 or 4 short yrs, Cash has built a top 7 farm system.

    ***************************

    Yes he has and who has he traded them for to help the team out now?

    Granderson? Please! I’m not going to go all giddy on one good month compared to 2 and a half years of decline…

    Vasquez/Logan – again one good month of logan won’t change my mind that the yankees got the better of the deal (did you see Logan turn into a pumpkin in the playoffs by the way)

    Now compare what the RedSox get when they trade their “stud” minor leaguers

    Beckett and Lowell for Hanley Ramirez (Got a WS ring out of that)

    Adrian Gonzalez for 3 DOUBLE A players – when is the last time the yankees got a player of Gonzalez’s status for 3 players that may never sniff the major leagues?

    Detroit got Miguel Cabrera for 2 stud minor leaguers that never amounted to anything…

    Yet Cashman doesn’t have the balls to trade ANY of his minor leaguers for fear that they will turn out to be good – never once thinking that the person he trades for will help the club reach the WS immediately…if you keep waiting for tomorrow you may miss out on today…

  249. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Oakland A’s sent Henry Rodriguez and Corey Brown to the Nats for Willingham, Rodriguez is the guy who throws 100 mph who made a few appearances against the yankees.

    10 k/9 in 30 IP in the majors.

    They also got an outfielder with a career .272 .359 .497 .856 line entering AAA.

  250. Benny Blanco December 16th, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Chip,

    Why not sell soriano on the idea of of being a one-two punch combination of he and MO??

  251. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    The Yankees are protecting Montero.

    As you may be aware – Yankee fans are not a patient bunch. If Montero was brought up and handed the starting job and struggled, the stadium would turn on him quicker than Fenway turned on Damon.

    Now he can open the season in AAA, get heated up and in a groove and maybe come up around June or July if the opportunity presents itself.

  252. Carl December 16th, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Buster_ESPN

    Heard this from two sources: With the Jenks signing, BoSox payroll is actually higher than NYY. But the Yankees still have moves to come.

    lol

  253. Yank1 December 16th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    I would have rather they paid Jenks/Wood $12 mil for 2 years rather than pay Soriano 3/$36 or 4/$40. Once again, Theo beats us to the punch.

    All the good RH relief options are gone – Crain, Wood, Jenks, Gurrier all gone. Balfour is a Type A.

    If Cash has been this frugal with the pen, an area we could certainly use help in, I doubt he will be willing to invest much in the bench either. The Lee negotiation ended days ago, they should have had time to improvise by now.

  254. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    Benny Blanco December 16th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
    Chip,

    Why not sell soriano on the idea of of being a one-two punch combination of he and MO??

    ——————–

    Because Soriano is already an established closer. Why would he want to take a step back in his career?

  255. vinny-b December 16th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    as of today, this off-season indeed sucks.

  256. Yank1 December 16th, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    “Heard this from two sources: With the Jenks signing, BoSox payroll is actually higher than NYY. But the Yankees still have moves to come. ”

    Like what? Feliciano and Jerry Hairston?

    Either way, it’s not going to be much higher, unless we sign Andy. Even then, the gap will be closer than it has ever been in a decade.

  257. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    “The Yankees are protecting Montero.

    As you may be aware – Yankee fans are not a patient bunch. If Montero was brought up and handed the starting job and struggled, the stadium would turn on him quicker than Fenway turned on Damon.

    Now he can open the season in AAA, get heated up and in a groove and maybe come up around June or July if the opportunity presents itself.”

    Couldn’t agree more, Chip. Martin signing makes sense to me in that regard. Break Montero in slowly since we can afford to do so. No need to throw him out there immediately 100%.

  258. Dylan December 16th, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    This move makes a lot of sense. Its pretty apparent that the Yankees don’t see Posada as a catcher, which I am very happy about. I love him as a player, but he is AWFUL behind the plate. I don’t think he will catch more than a handful of games this year, if any. Even if Montero is ready to catch at the major league level, I don’t think he could catch 120 games. We needed someone to split the catching duties with Montero, even if he was going to be our starter.

  259. Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    The prospect overvaluing that is taking place on this site in recent weeks is absolutely astounding. The Yankees will likely have a top 10 system when the rankings come out…….likely top 10, not top 2, not best…….yet seemingly everyone thinks this farm system is the key to a huge dynasty run that just begins as soon as they are ready. Seriously?

  260. Nick in SF December 16th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    I thought it was common knowledge that Lonn Trost calls the games from a secure, undisclosed loacation.

  261. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
    Oakland A’s sent Henry Rodriguez and Corey Brown to the Nats for Willingham, Rodriguez is the guy who throws 100 mph who made a few appearances against the yankees.

    10 k/9 in 30 IP in the majors.

    They also got an outfielder with a career .272 .359 .497 .856 line entering AAA.

    —————————————-

    and has all the control of Josh Hamilton in a room full of booze – averaged nearly 7 walks per 9 in the minors dialed that down to 4/9 in his brief major league career.

  262. ac1 December 16th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    Ledger_Yankees RT @Buster_ESPN: Heard this from 2 sources: With the Jenks signing, BoSox payroll is actually higher than NYY. But Yanks have moves to come
    __
    WOW.

    even if they end up close, never ever want to hear sux fans whining about yankee spending.

  263. Dylan December 16th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    At least we won’t have to hear Red Sox fans complaining about our payroll anymore!

  264. ac1 December 16th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    At least we won’t have to hear Red Sox fans complaining about our payroll anymore!

    __

    They still will.

  265. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    “Yet Cashman doesn’t have the balls to trade ANY of his minor leaguers for fear that they will turn out to be good – never once thinking that the person he trades for will help the club reach the WS immediately…if you keep waiting for tomorrow you may miss out on today…”

    Yankees trading everything away for the next year’s WS hasn’t worked out too well in the past. Witness the 80′s and early 90′s. Then Yanks went with prospects and not only won 4 WS…but beat a pitching rotation even better than the Phillies have now! :-)

  266. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    and has all the control of Josh Hamilton in a room full of booze – averaged nearly 7 walks per 9 in the minors dialed that down to 4/9 in his brief major league career.

    3.8 BB/9 in AAA last year, so around a 4 BB/9 in 50 innings. Thats a good sample for a reliever.

  267. vinny-b December 16th, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    Because Soriano is already an established closer. Why would he want to take a step back in his career?
    —————————-

    by overpaying him. That’s how. The Yankees are 23 million under their perceived budget for 2010. They can afford to blow everyone away for Soriano.

    this was/is one of the few areas the Yankees were able to improve. With Wood and Jenks off the board, this no longer looks like a possibility. Fine. Make 2010 a rebuilding year and be done with it. Because i’ve no desire to improve this team by trading away Montero, Betances, Banulos, etc.

  268. vinny-b December 16th, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    typo: 2011

  269. ET December 16th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    Any day now, Cash…. Whenveer you get tired of Theo running circles around you, feel free to do some things. Unless you think that a team that basically was under .500 for the latter 3rd of the season is good enough to beat a revamped Boston team…

    That tweet from Buster is funny… are we supposed to take solace in the fact that Boston has a higher payroll than us? Of course they do, they have a better team than us and are signing some key pieces to strengthen them.

  270. Swishalicious33 December 16th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    Who are we kidding, they’ll still complain.

  271. Dill Pickler December 16th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    from Feinsand and Madden at NY Daily News:

    Source: Yankees are exploring option of signing All-Star closer Rafael Soriano to set up Mo Rivera

    Brian Cashman said last week he wouldn’t pay “closer money” for Kerry Wood to return to the Yankees as a setup man.

    Rafael Soriano, on the other hand, may be a different story.

    According to a source with knowledge of the Yankees’ thinking, the Bombers are exploring the option of signing Soriano, the All-Star closer who pitched last year for the Rays.

    With plenty of money to spare in the wake of Cliff Lee’s return to Philadelphia, the Yankees have held preliminary discussions with Scott Boras about Soriano, the source said.

    The Yankees’ inability to land Lee has shifted their emphasis on bolstering the bullpen, using their unexpected slush fund toward doing so.

    The Yankees had hoped to bring back Kerry Wood to serve in the primary setup role for Rivera, but the 33-year-old is said to be seeking a two-year deal worth $12 million, more than the Yankees are prepared to pay the oft-injured righthander.

    In the case of Soriano – who was 45-for-48 in save opportunities while posting a 1.73 ERA for Tampa Bay – Cashman is said to be willing to make an exception, paying him “closer money” to back up Rivera with the thought of the 31-year-old bring groomed to eventually succeed the iconic Hall of Fame-bound closer.

    “It’s all very, very preliminary,” a source familiar with the Yankees’ thinking said.

    The source added that while the Yankees are willing to give Soriano more than they would have given Wood, there are limits to what they will pay.

    “They don’t know where Boras is going to take this,” the source said. “They’re not going to go crazy.”

    While a primary setup man for Rivera is their main objective in the coming days, the Yankees are also believed to be closing in on a deal with lefty specialist Pedro Feliciano, who has pitched for the Mets during his entire eight-year career.

    In addition to Wood, the Yankees had been interested in Jesse Crain, but the former Twins righthander also came off the board Thursday, agreeing to a three-year deal with the White Sox.

  272. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    vinny-b December 16th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
    Because Soriano is already an established closer. Why would he want to take a step back in his career?
    —————————-

    by overpaying him. That’s how. The Yankees are 23 million under their perceived budget for 2010. They can afford to blow everyone away for Soriano.

    this was/is one of the few areas the Yankees were able to improve. With Wood and Jenks off the board, this no longer looks like a possibility. Fine. Make 2010 a rebuilding year and be done with it. Because i’ve no desire to improve this team by trading away Montero, Betances, Banulos, etc.

    ————————-

    I still think there are better ways to spend the money.

    Fill out the rotation by trading for a guy with a big contract like Jake Peavy who won’t cost a ton of prospects in return.

    Put it in a Yu Darvish fund and gear up for his posting next year.

    and I still believe Greinke will land in the Bronx.

  273. jpb173 December 16th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    I think the Sox are really pushing the Yankees to have to make some big moves here and soon. I am fan #1 for the patience approach but lets face it, the Sox keep creating distance on paper and Cashman needs to stop the off season bleeding.
    Give the boys in pinstripes a punchers chance next year.

    ———————————————————————————

    What’s wrong with the Yankees dropping back for 2 or 3 years while they start developing new young players. We’ve had a pretty good run in the last 16 years (5 World Championships, 7 World Series appearances and 15 playoff appearances) but the nucleus is starting to get old. Its time to start an influx of younger players who can break in for 2-3 years and not have too much pressure on them.

    George Steinbrenner always wanted the Yankees to be a contender for the World Champtionship but he’s dead. Hal Steinbrenner might want to take a different approach.

  274. Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Mythbusters’ moment:

    Per Cot’s Yank payroll is currently around $178M while the Sox payroll with Jenks is around $142M.

  275. Mell December 16th, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Jeez! Boras is Soriano’s agent? I’d bet he gets his guy to take Yankee money, but I don’t see him taking less than 3 years and $30M.

  276. Bring in the Goose December 16th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Red Sox have annual deferred payments to Manny Ramirez to the tune of $1mm plus for the next 10+ years.

  277. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    What’s wrong with the Yankees dropping back for 2 or 3 years while they start developing new young players

    Because the Yankees are spending massive amounts of money on players that won’t be any as good in 2-3 years. Yankees need to always go big.

  278. Carl December 16th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    # Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Mythbusters’ moment:

    Per Cot’s Yank payroll is currently around $178M while the Sox payroll with Jenks is around $142M.

    Yankees are around 178

  279. GoldGlove9486 December 16th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Give Soriano what he wants…he can close when Mo retires. If not, while we’re rebuilding now, who’s the closer in 2 years? Joba?

  280. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    I said it earlier – I see no reason why Soriano (or Boras) would settle for a contract lower than what K-Rod got from the Mets – which is about 11 mil/year for 3 years and then a vesting option at $17.5.

    If you consider that the starting point for what he would want to close – figure he’s going to want even more if he’s giving up the title of closer and accepting a lesser role with the Yankees.

    Are you prepared to shell out 50 – 60 mil over 4 years for this guy?

  281. vinny-b December 16th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Russell Martin over Bobby Jenks.

    I love Cashman, but dammm. e.e

  282. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    “Fill out the rotation by trading for a guy with a big contract like Jake Peavy who won’t cost a ton of prospects in return.”

    I’d agree if – and it’s a big IF – it didn’t cost any of the top prospects (Montero/B’s/etc). Peavy was dominant in Petco Park in weak division in weak league. Not sure that dominance translates over to AL East.

    If it was simply a salary dump move for marginal prospects I’d be on board. But that seems unlikely to me.

  283. Dylan December 16th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    I would love to add Soriano. We have a ton of money to spend, and there are no big name pitchers worth going after next year. Also, we will have Posada’s contract coming off the books, so we will have money to spend next year regardless.

  284. Jerkface December 16th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    I see no reason why Soriano (or Boras) would settle for a contract lower than what K-Rod got from the Mets

    Why? Soriano lacks the track record of K-Rod.

  285. ET December 16th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    vinny,

    Couldn’t agree more. Isn’t that the point of being the Yankees? To use our financial advantage to overpay for good players to take lesser roles?

    I mean, what are they going to do with the Lee money they have left over? Not like there are any key FAs next year for them to save on.

    More and more, it is looking like Plan B is a bridge year. Bridge to what? I have no idea. Not like CC/Tex caliber players are sitting there next winter.

  286. Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    # jpb173 December 16th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    I think the Sox are really pushing the Yankees to have to make some big moves here and soon. I am fan #1 for the patience approach but lets face it, the Sox keep creating distance on paper and Cashman needs to stop the off season bleeding.
    Give the boys in pinstripes a punchers chance next year.

    ———————————————————————————

    What’s wrong with the Yankees dropping back for 2 or 3 years while they start developing new young players. We’ve had a pretty good run in the last 16 years (5 World Championships, 7 World Series appearances and 15 playoff appearances) but the nucleus is starting to get old. Its time to start an influx of younger players who can break in for 2-3 years and not have too much pressure on them.

    George Steinbrenner always wanted the Yankees to be a contender for the World Champtionship but he’s dead. Hal Steinbrenner might want to take a different approach.

    ———————————————————

    what owner or fan thinks “hey, lets just lose for a few years and hope our farm system works out for us as we hope…..cuz we all know, good prospects have like an 80% success rate”?

  287. 4time December 16th, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    The source added that while the Yankees are willing to give Soriano more than they would have given Wood, there are limits to what they will pay.

    “They don’t know where Boras is going to take this,” the source said. “They’re not going to go crazy.”

    ——————

    So in other words, the Yankees are wasting their time. They are willing to pay him more than Wood? really???

    When did they get so frugal all of a sudden?

  288. Mell December 16th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    “Per Cot’s Yank payroll is currently around $178M while the Sox payroll with Jenks is around $142M”

    I think the Yankees get to deduct Igawa’s money because he’s not on the 40 man. Also am assuming the perpetrator of this notion is factoring in $15M or so for arb awards to Papelbon and Ellsbury plus garden variety tender offers. Still don’t think it’s higher than the Yankees, but it’s going to be pretty close.

  289. vinny-b December 16th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Jeez! Boras is Soriano’s agent? I’d bet he gets his guy to take Yankee money, but I don’t see him taking less than 3 years and $30M
    ————————————–

    that’s fair. 3/30 for Soriano, works for me

  290. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    I can’t believe people are freaking out about Jenks.

    I, for one, am glad the Sox continue to overspend on overrated players. Jenks is awful, and this will go down as worse than the Gagne signing.

  291. 4time December 16th, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    I should add…. Nationals probably will pay him more than us AND give him a chance to close.

    Not going to get these top players unless you pay them market value. If Wood was too expensive for their blood, Soriano is probably a waste of time for them to pursue.

  292. blake December 16th, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Chip
    In your proposed trade for Greinke …..who.would play LF for the Yanks.?

  293. G. Love December 16th, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    It’s starting to appear Cashman has no plan for this year other than bluff Crawford and try to sign Lee.

    Losing Wood from our pen is a big loss. He put all the bullpen pitchers into their correct roles and the pen became a strength.

    Letting Jenks slip is another loss unless he replaces him with Soriano who he will now have to seriously overpay to get.

    This is not good. Our team is stagnating because of allegiance to older core guys. The 4th year to Posada is now an albatross as he isn’t the best DH candidate for the roster next year. Jeter’s overpay hurts the team in what it’s willing to spend. Andy is apparently not willing to take the same deal again to come back.

    Cashman is sitting on his hands here and I think the front office is telling him not to spend on high priced bullpen arms.

    The off season strategy is not looking sound to me. Hopefully, he has something up his sleeve.

  294. Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    # Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    “Fill out the rotation by trading for a guy with a big contract like Jake Peavy who won’t cost a ton of prospects in return.”

    I’d agree if – and it’s a big IF – it didn’t cost any of the top prospects (Montero/B’s/etc). Peavy was dominant in Petco Park in weak division in weak league. Not sure that dominance translates over to AL East.

    If it was simply a salary dump move for marginal prospects I’d be on board. But that seems unlikely to me.
    —————————————————-

    The white sox traded Clayton Richard, Aaron Poreda, Dexter Carter and Adam Russell to get peavy despite his hefty contract…….why would they give him away for nothing when they have a rotation that will allow them to be very competitive next year in the AL Central?

  295. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    “I, for one, am glad the Sox continue to overspend on overrated players. Jenks is awful, and this will go down as worse than the Gagne signing.”

    Make that two of us (at least). Sox are making the same mistakes the Yanks made – signing declining vets based on a hope of them replicating some past success.

  296. Rich in NJ December 16th, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    Increased potential for a Montero trade?
    “Our assets this organization currently possesses is high-end pitching depth as well as high-end catching depth,” Cashman said. “If we ever choose to shoot those bullets, we’re in a better position to do so. There’s a lot of levels to this. I’m not saying I want to shoot any of these assets for trade purposes, but sometimes you have to.”
    __

    Their liabilities include several important aging (and possibly declining) position players. They should be very, very, very careful before trading a potentially impact bat like Montero, otherwise they may end up shooting themselves in the face, like they would have if they hadn’t been saved by Jack Z. from making that idiotic trade for Lee.

  297. pat December 16th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Wow. Lots of whining today.

    If Cashman had signed Jenks 2/$12M some of you would be complaining it was a stupid overpay but the Sox do it and it’s brilliant?

    Why decide you hate the movie half way through. You may love the ending. If you don’t there will be a whole season to complain about it so pace yourselves.

  298. REZ12 December 16th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Jenks had a 2.59 FIP last year.

    He was terribly unlucky. I said whoever signed him would get a steal… unfortunately, it looks like it will be the Sox.

    BTW – Janks has owned us in his career. 1.06 ERA in 17 IP. He has only given up 2 runs to us in his entire career… a 2-R HR by Bubba Crosby in a garbage-time game back in 06.

  299. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    jpb173 December 16th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
    I think the Sox are really pushing the Yankees to have to make some big moves here and soon. I am fan #1 for the patience approach but lets face it, the Sox keep creating distance on paper and Cashman needs to stop the off season bleeding.
    Give the boys in pinstripes a punchers chance next year.

    ———————————————————————————

    What’s wrong with the Yankees dropping back for 2 or 3 years while they start developing new young players. We’ve had a pretty good run in the last 16 years (5 World Championships, 7 World Series appearances and 15 playoff appearances) but the nucleus is starting to get old. Its time to start an influx of younger players who can break in for 2-3 years and not have too much pressure on them.

    ———————–

    Haven’t paid for a ticket at the stadium in a while have you?

  300. Patrick December 16th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Of course I realize the Yanks would have to pay Posada anyway. If they didn’t, my comment would have been a commonplace thought and not the thought-provoking post it really was.

    I should have known… all of your posts are meant to provoke thought :)

    Wave, sometimes you are right on the edge of being a troll, I love it

  301. Erica in NY December 16th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    People are also forgetting Boston came into this offseason with a lot more holes to plug than the Yankees.

    Which team played in the ALCS?
    Which team went golfing?

  302. blake December 16th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Soriano and Feliciano would give the Yanks a pretty nasty pen.

    Jerkface, if Thome would accept a bench role then I like that. He probably can get a better offer elsewhere but I love Thome.

  303. Yankee Trader December 16th, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    How many teams need a closer now
    Indians, Rays, and Blue Jays + Rangers if Feliz goes into rotation. Angels plan to stick with Rodney.

    In NL Astros, Pirates and Nationals.

    Soriano might not get what he’s looking for from those teams, unless Rangers move Feliz into the rotation.

  304. Triple Short of a Cycle December 16th, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    Hopdevil,

    Crawford and Agon are declining? News to me

  305. jpb173 December 16th, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    What’s wrong with the Yankees dropping back for 2 or 3 years while they start developing new young players

    Because the Yankees are spending massive amounts of money on players that won’t be any as good in 2-3 years. Yankees need to always go big.

    ==============================================

    Just because the Yankees have always gone big doesn’t mean they always have to. The argument that they are paying guys big bucks doesn’t hold either. The only long-term deals they’ve got are Arod and Sabathia…the rest of the guys will be gone in three years.

  306. Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    “Still don’t think it’s higher than the Yankees, but it’s going to be pretty close.”

    Mell, the Yanks’ have their own arbitration awards to pay, and they still have to pay Igawa even if he doesn’t count towards the luxury tax.

    The final payrolls won’t be close. The myth is busted.

  307. REZ12 December 16th, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    “People are also forgetting Boston came into this offseason with a lot more holes to plug than the Yankees.

    Which team played in the ALCS?
    Which team went golfing?”

    To be fair…half their team was on the DL.

    Like us in 2008, can’t judge the team merely on the W\L record.

  308. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    blake December 16th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
    Chip
    In your proposed trade for Greinke …..who.would play LF for the Yanks.?

    ———————–

    Johnny Damon?

    Scott Podsednik or Rick Ankiel in a platoon with Austin Kearns or Reed Johnson?

    Manny Ramirez?

    Colin Curtis?

    Additional trade…

    point is, you can find someone.

  309. Patrick December 16th, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    Soriano isn’t going to sign to be a set-up man….

  310. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    Why are people talking like Wood is gone? “working towards a deal” with a team that already has a closer? You telling me the cubs are going to pay wood more than the yanks to be a setup man?

    Not a chance.

  311. Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    Patrick-

    Don’t you have to have bad intentions to be a troll?

  312. Cashman needs to go December 16th, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    “there are limits to what they will pay”

    ************************

    The 2011 Slogan for Yankee Baseball

    …….but of course they won’t be any limits to what they will charge the fans….

  313. randy l. December 16th, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    watching yankees /pirates world series.

    frank crosetti was part of 17 world championship teams and he was the third base coach of that 1960 yankee team.

    that is how tradition is passed on. that is how there was a yankee way back then.

    if kubek or tresh wondered something , crosetti was there to tell him.

    what coaches on the yankees tell them how to be champions ?

    the yankees have too people in their organization who have no idea what it is to be a yankee.

    it wasn’t like that back in 1960.

  314. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Patrick – then he’ll be watching from home this year. no team that currently needs a closer will pay him what he is asking.

    when push comes to shove, soriano will sign to continue to play baseball.

  315. blake December 16th, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Chip,
    You can find someone…..finding someone that’s any good though is a little tougher.

  316. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    “The white sox traded Clayton Richard, Aaron Poreda, Dexter Carter and Adam Russell to get peavy despite his hefty contract…….why would they give him away for nothing when they have a rotation that will allow them to be very competitive next year in the AL Central?”

    I agree. Don’t think it will happen because of that. Was just saying that I’d only want it to happen under those circumstances (which of course there are plenty of pitchers I’d support taking if it only cost money and marginal prospects). I simply don’t feel there are many pitchers out there (available, anyway) that will be “ace” long enough to make it worthwhile to trade top guys.

  317. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
    Why are people talking like Wood is gone? “working towards a deal” with a team that already has a closer? You telling me the cubs are going to pay wood more than the yanks to be a setup man?

    Not a chance.

    ———————-

    As I said – I would let Kerry Wood go. Take the fact that he didn’t get hurt last year as a blessing and let the man go on to the next team.

  318. jpb173 December 16th, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    what owner or fan thinks “hey, lets just lose for a few years and hope our farm system works out for us as we hope…..cuz we all know, good prospects have like an 80% success rate”?

    ———————————————————————————-

    The Yankees can’t continue to excel with an aging ARod, Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Pettitite and Burnett. They are going to have to retool and there simply aren’t enough quality free agents out there…they need begin developing a new dynasty from within the organization.

  319. Captain Clutch December 16th, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Cashman is going to have to over pay relievers to get them to sign. Relievers are getting a lot of money and an extra year to sign and he has to pay what the market is. He has to stop being so cheap when it comes to the bullpen and pay the going rate. Feliciano would be nice from the left side and then another righty to add to him.

  320. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    blake December 16th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
    Chip,
    You can find someone…..finding someone that’s any good though is a little tougher.

    —————————-

    If you’re asking would I rather have Brett Gardner in LF or a combo of Podsednik and Kearns in LF I would take Pod-Ker if it meant that I could have Greinke in the rotation.

  321. Mell December 16th, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    “What’s wrong with the Yankees dropping back for 2 or 3 years while they start developing new young players.”

    Beyond it hurting fan interest both at the park and via YES, it serves to waste prime years of Cano, Sabathia and Teixeira and the golden years of Arod, Jeter, Rivera, etc. When you have those guys on your team and you’re paying them big money, you don’t do a complete rebuild.

    Ask the Red Sox organization how their “bridge year” worked out for them. Ask them how much they liked seeig a 30% dip in TV ratings at NESN.

    Can’t work that way with the Yankees. They have to play to win.

  322. Patrick December 16th, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Don’t you have to have bad intentions to be a troll?

    Your intentions are questionable!

  323. Rich in NJ December 16th, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    “Which team played in the ALCS?
    Which team went golfing?”
    _

    You could argue that the injuries to Youk (however you spell it) and Pedroia were the primary reasons for the (under) performance.

  324. Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Patrick, LOL!

  325. blake December 16th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Chip,

    Put Montero in LF :)

  326. Keith--FL December 16th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Cashman is working on building a bridge for our “bridge year in 2011 and……a source said that last night Cashman, Levine, Trost, and both Steinbrenners were out at Malio’s Prime Steakhouse in Tampa celebrating the Yankees new payroll under $200 million at $185 million….

  327. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    Blake -

    How about this do the trade I laid out for Greinke

    Sign Damon
    Use Golson or a player of that ilk to serve as a defensive caddy for Damon in LF late in games

    you’re now looking at a lineup of:

    Jeter – SS
    Damon – LF
    Tex – 1b
    Alex – 3b
    Cano – 2b
    Swisher – RF
    Posada – DH
    Granderson – CF
    Martin – C

    and a rotation of CC, Greinke, Hughes, AJ, Nova/Phelps

  328. G. Love December 16th, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    Detroit set the price of what a quality set up man will cost with the early Benoit signing.

    Cashman, appears, unwilling to go where the market has gone for quality set up men.

  329. Patrick December 16th, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    ID,

    When did one of Boras’ clients come up dry? Soriano will get at least 3 years @ 30 million to be a closer somewhere.

  330. Yankee Trader December 16th, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    ID-

    Here’s why Wood is probably gone:
    Wood has made Chicago his home and told us last week that whatever decision he made about where he would pitch in 2011 had to be a good fit for his family. Being able to stay home and his longtime relationship with Cubs general manager Jim Hendry are huge factors in the Cubs favor

  331. Captain Clutch December 16th, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    Giving Posada that 4th year really stinks. He hasn’t had good numbers when he dh’s and I doubt he will hit enough to be an average dh. They could really use that spot this year to add another bat to the aging ones. They could sign Vlad, Thome or even Beltre and move Arod to DH. The offense was poor last year and if the pitching is going to be average at best it would be nice to beef up the offense but now they can’t.

  332. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    “Crawford and Agon are declining? News to me”

    Not talking about Agon. And not saying the whole team is declining. Talking about signings like Lackey, Penny, Smoltz, and now Jenks. Crawford may not be in decline per se – but there has been an awful lot written about Fenway being a bad move for him. We’ll see. But the Crawford signing certainly doesn’t strike me as an uber-deal for the Sox. I don’t see him performing up to 142M.

  333. blake December 16th, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Chip,

    That would make Erica’s life…..still don’t know. Would like that rotation much better if Pettite were in there as well.

  334. Yankee Trader December 16th, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Chip-

    Peavy has bad mechanics and is injury prone.
    Hudson loves Atlanta.
    Greinke has been talked about ad nauseum.

    Need to look elsewhere for a starter. My guess is Pettitte comes back for an incentive laden and deferred money deal.

  335. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Patrick – His name was Johnny Damon.

    “Somewhere” is the limiting factor here. Who out of the Indians, Rays, BlueJays, Nats, Pirates or Astros is going to pony up $30mil for a closer? The answer is none of them.

    Soriano can want to be a closer for $30million all he wants. Wish in one hand and…

  336. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    blake December 16th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
    Chip,

    That would make Erica’s life…..still don’t know. Would like that rotation much better if Pettite were in there as well.

    ——————–

    Ok, so put Andy back in there – I think it’s entirely possible he comes back.

    What are you unsure about? I like Brett Gardner but I’m not letting him stop me from bringing in Greinke and while Damon in LF is not thrilling, I can live with him there for a year and I know that his bat is going to be productive in the 2 spot…

  337. CountryClub December 16th, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    Stop stressing about the pen. They’ll improve it from within during the yr or they’ll make a trade if they have to. Past two yrs were the same way. The pen started slow and became a strength as the yr progressed.

  338. Wave Your Hat December 16th, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    “My guess is Pettitte comes back for an incentive laden and deferred money deal.”

    Not after Jeter’s contract. If Andy comes back he’s going to demand and get big $$.

  339. Triple Short of a Cycle December 16th, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    I can’t wait till Cano asks for a 7 year 140 million dollar deal

  340. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Yankee Trader December 16th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
    Chip-

    Peavy has bad mechanics and is injury prone.
    Hudson loves Atlanta.
    Greinke has been talked about ad nauseum.

    Need to look elsewhere for a starter. My guess is Pettitte comes back for an incentive laden and deferred money deal.

    —————–

    Trader -

    I think Andy comes back for 1 year $12 mil and I think Greinke gets dealt to the Yankees.

  341. Triple Short of a Cycle December 16th, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    If the Yankees were able to sign people at fair market deals and so were the Red Sox the Sox would have a higher payroll then the Yankees

  342. Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    # Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    “The white sox traded Clayton Richard, Aaron Poreda, Dexter Carter and Adam Russell to get peavy despite his hefty contract…….why would they give him away for nothing when they have a rotation that will allow them to be very competitive next year in the AL Central?”

    I agree. Don’t think it will happen because of that. Was just saying that I’d only want it to happen under those circumstances (which of course there are plenty of pitchers I’d support taking if it only cost money and marginal prospects). I simply don’t feel there are many pitchers out there (available, anyway) that will be “ace” long enough to make it worthwhile to trade top guys.

    —————————————————————

    fully support your view, my problem with peavy is that a) i dont think they give him away and b) he wasnt all that good last year and then he got hurt and missed his last 15 starts.

  343. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    “Not after Jeter’s contract. If Andy comes back he’s going to demand and get big $$.”

    Which I think the Yanks can live with since it’s a 1yr deal at a time. I’d think the Yanks would hit mid-teens for him, especially under current circumstances.

  344. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    Triple Short of a Cycle December 16th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
    If the Yankees were able to sign people at fair market deals and so were the Red Sox the Sox would have a higher payroll then the Yankees

    ——————

    Yeah – the Varitek deal was certainly “fair market.” In a fair market Jason Varitek gets a minor league deal with an invitation to spring training.

  345. Patrick December 16th, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    ID,

    Damon was on the decline, Soriano is in his prime. Bad example

  346. Captain Clutch December 16th, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    If Pettitte comes back he is probably going to get $15m.

  347. Carl December 16th, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    Sean_McAdam: Hearing talk of Jenks’ signing “premature” — and not just because of physical, etc. More to do on contract, still.

  348. Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    # Captain Clutch December 16th, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    If Pettitte comes back he is probably going to get $15m.

    —————————————-

    Yep.

  349. 108 stitches December 16th, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    Boston fans can’t see the forest through the trees. Delusional, naive, and very easily BS’d.
    The Socks are just a tick better than when they finished the 2010 season. Still have issues with their starting rotation just as the Yankees presently have.
    Nothing etched in stone that they won’t have injury issues such as this past season.
    No team wins on paper.

  350. vinny-b December 16th, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    off topic:

    anyone know of a Blu Ray player, that will play DVD’s burned in “mastered” format?

  351. Yankee Trader December 16th, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    Somewhere” is the limiting factor here. Who out of the Indians, Rays, BlueJays, Nats, Pirates or Astros is going to pony up $30mil for a closer? The answer is none of them.
    ————————————————————–

    That’s my point. Unless the Angels are not satisfied with Rodney as their closer and Downs as set up and the Rangers don’t move Feliz into the rotation, who is going to pay Soriano what he and Boras want. Soriano has dealt with elbow issues in the past also. People need to look up his injury history.

  352. Carl December 16th, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    The media has pretty much said Beckett, Lackey, and DiceK will all improve.

  353. rodg12 December 16th, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    # Chip December 16th, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    Triple Short of a Cycle December 16th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
    If the Yankees were able to sign people at fair market deals and so were the Red Sox the Sox would have a higher payroll then the Yankees

    ——————

    Yeah – the Varitek deal was certainly “fair market.” In a fair market Jason Varitek gets a minor league deal with an invitation to spring training.
    ——————————————————————
    Yeah, that $10 million they had to pay him over the last 3 years REALLY tied there hands to make other moves.

  354. Erica in NY December 16th, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    blake December 16th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
    Chip,

    That would make Erica’s life…..still don’t know. Would like that rotation much better if Pettite were in there as well.

    **************

    I don’t know what Chip is proposing, but if it makes Johnny Damon a Yankee, I am in

  355. Yankee Trader December 16th, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    GM Brian Cashman is said to be willing to pay Soriano “closer money” to set up Mariano Rivera and then take over after Mo retires.

    Interesting!

  356. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    Patrick – Soriano is 31, this is his prime? 8th season in the bigs and he has just 1 full season as a closer?

  357. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    Erica –

    Blake asked me who I thought it would take to land Greinke; among the players I suggested was Gardner – so Blake wanted to know if they went that route who would play LF…

    Natural fit to me would be to bring in Damon for 1 year.

  358. Carlo December 16th, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    # 108 stitches December 16th, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    Boston fans can’t see the forest through the trees. Delusional, naive, and very easily BS’d.
    The Socks are just a tick better than when they finished the 2010 season. Still have issues with their starting rotation just as the Yankees presently have.
    Nothing etched in stone that they won’t have injury issues such as this past season.
    No team wins on paper.

    ———————————————————

    Let me start this by saying that I cant stand to say what i am about to say and that by no means am I whining about the position we are in or scared to death about the 2011 season. Having said that, I will say the following under those terms:

    1 – to say the sox arent considerably better is naive
    2 – they lost vmart (defensive liability) and beltre (career year)…….they have more than made up for this in crawford and gonzalez
    3 – they lost beckett, pedroia, youkillis, ellsbury, lowrie, scutaro, and cameron for considerable periods of time; all 5 of which are considered healthy right now (this alone could offset the loss of vmart and beltre)
    4 – the pitching staffs are not comparable………their starting 5 is very simply put better and has far fewer question marks
    5 – for all the talk of how much they spent, their payroll is still only a tad over $143 million, will be under $150 still if they sign jenks….they still have money to spend for 2010 should they wish to do so

    So, in conclusion, they are a considerably better team year over year, you basically say so yourself by admitting that maybe they get injuries next year,……implying that you acknowledge that on paper they are a lot better. We unfortunately are not better year over year and we too can endure injuries.

  359. blake December 16th, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    Erica,

    He was proposing Gardner in package for Greinke and the signing Damon to play some LF. ;)

  360. austinmac December 16th, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    Dallas area newspapers have reported the Rangers do not intend to put Feliz in the rotation because of a lack of secondary pitches. That seemingly eliminates them. Now, then question is whether the Yankees are willing to give him closer plus pay. We can be sure the Yankees would be told by Boras they need to pay extra for not closing. I hope they are willing.

    Then, Greinke, Feliciano and an outfielder, and that team looks good next to the Sox.

  361. hardwired7 December 16th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    from Olney’s column today:

    “The Rangers are committed to having Neftali Feliz prepare to work as a starter when spring training opens.”

    That could make them a possible landing spot for Soriano.

  362. wernerman December 16th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    15 million for Andy. Can anyone justify that salary? I don’t hear anyone saying that is too high for a 39 year old.

  363. blake December 16th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Chip,

    I would consider that deal….don’t know if the Royals would or not.

  364. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    The Sox rotation just doesn’t strike fear in my heart. I never really thought Lackey was great, I think Beckett peaked a few years ago, and Dice K has been pretty streaky. Now odds are at least 1 or 2 have better years in 2011…but – call me crazy – I think Burnett has a better year (hard to get worse), Hughes’ stamina increases and is able to finish well, and perhaps Pettitte signs and makes it through the year sans injury.

    Also potential for Jeter and Tex to have better years, and for Granderson to continue his second-half success.

    So the Sox are not the only team likely to improve. Also keep in mind that it’s still likely the top 2 from AL East make the playoffs.

  365. MTU December 16th, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    Blake-

    The other half of your brain is feelin’ what you’re feelin’ on a potential blockbuster. ;)

    Hints are being dropped.

  366. Erica in NY December 16th, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    blake December 16th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
    Erica,

    He was proposing Gardner in package for Greinke and the signing Damon to play some LF.

    ************

    I can get behind that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  367. Patrick December 16th, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    Patrick – Soriano is 31, this is his prime? 8th season in the bigs and he has just 1 full season as a closer?

    Yeah but you neglect to mention that his 1 season as a closer (and best season overall) came last year. And 31 is still his prime, yes.

  368. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    Blake -

    Fair enough. It would be a tough sell given that Romine, Nunez and Brackman are not elite prospects and Gardner and Joba are not high impact major leaguers. You would probably have to swap out Brackman with Betances for them to go along.

  369. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    Having said that I wouldn’t argue that the Sox are not better on paper so far…I just don’t see them as being some unbeatable behemoth

  370. clownthrowindown December 16th, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    Make that two of us (at least). Sox are making the same mistakes the Yanks made – signing declining vets based on a hope of them replicating some past success.
    ————————————————————————————————

    That’s a crazy statement. Boston let Beltre and Martinez (guys who fit your description) walk and replaced them with younger, better players in Crawford and AGon.

    Its the complete opposite from you said!

    I assume by declining vets signed by NY you mean Jeter, Rivera and the possibility of signing Pettitte. If not, your statement is even further off base.

  371. blake December 16th, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    MTU,

    yea I don’t know what exactly but it wouldn’t surprise me….one thing is.for sure, if Cashman is working on something then I doubt we here about it until its done.

  372. Yank1 December 16th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    Mell – Couldn’t agree more.

    Odd to have a bridge year when so many of your big money players are at the latter stages of their prime and guys like CC, Tex, Swish, Grandy, etc. are already 30 and entrenched right in their prime.

    Hardly ever works.

  373. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    blake December 16th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
    MTU,

    yea I don’t know what exactly but it wouldn’t surprise me….one thing is.for sure, if Cashman is working on something then I doubt we here about it until its done.

    —————————

    Like every other major deal that has happened this winter – the ones you hear about don’t happen, the ones you don’t hear about are the ones that get done.

    Why? Because GMs don’t feed reporters info about things they’re actually working on and reporters aren’t doing anything other than writing what they’ve been spoon fed

    (no offense Chad)

  374. MTU December 16th, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    Blake-

    That’s true. Total blackout until it’s done. If it’s done.

    I thought his comment about trading of bullets was very telling.

  375. Red Lobster December 16th, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    You would hope Cashman is working on something… plan B can’t be merely hoping/waiting for the killer Bs to ascend to the rotation and become the SF Giants.

    And if plan B is a “bridge year”, why sign Martin and rob Montero of a chance to gain valuable ML experience? Especially when Cash was adamant about him getting a fair shot to win the starting C job in ST last month.

    Very confusing. Plan B has to be a big trade because there is virtually nothing left pursuing on the market except Soriano… and they have given no indication they went to spend market value on relievers.

  376. J. Alfred Prufrock December 16th, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
    jerkface – Unless there is some public statement of “posada doesn’t take signs from the bench” I’ll just assume you are making that up to further your point.

    ///I guess you missed all the post-games when Andy says “Jorgie called a great game.” To boot, anyone paying attention can see that Posada calls pitches. I have no idea how you came up with the idea that he doesn’t call games he catches.

  377. 4time December 16th, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    G. Love December 16th, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    It’s starting to appear Cashman has no plan for this year other than bluff Crawford and try to sign Lee.

    Losing Wood from our pen is a big loss. He put all the bullpen pitchers into their correct roles and the pen became a strength.

    Letting Jenks slip is another loss unless he replaces him with Soriano who he will now have to seriously overpay to get.

    This is not good. Our team is stagnating because of allegiance to older core guys. The 4th year to Posada is now an albatross as he isn’t the best DH candidate for the roster next year. Jeter’s overpay hurts the team in what it’s willing to spend. Andy is apparently not willing to take the same deal again to come back.

    Cashman is sitting on his hands here and I think the front office is telling him not to spend on high priced bullpen arms.

    The off season strategy is not looking sound to me. Hopefully, he has something up his sleeve.

    ———————-

    Great post – this whole thing is very odd.

  378. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    Plan B is they still have essentially the same team that won the wild card last year and went to the ALCS. Minus a horrible Vazquez.

    How are the yankees getting any worse this offseason?

    The other teams are playing catch-up. The RedSox signings so far are so overrated its not even funny anymore.

  379. rodg12 December 16th, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    pcaldera

    Since ’06, Russell Martin has caught 2nd most runners stealing in MLB (25.9%) + his 3.76 catchers ERA is No. 1.

  380. Hopdevil December 16th, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Great article up at Fan Graphs…”Relievers are Not Worth Multi-Year Deals”

    “12 relievers were deemed worthy of long term deals as free agents. Half of them performed below replacement level and were a complete waste of money. Four of them were simply disappointments, ending up as semi-productive relievers making far too much money. One of them had a good first year, but still has to justify the decision with two years remaining on the deal. And the other is Mariano Rivera.”

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....ear-deals/

  381. CountryClub December 16th, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    15 mil for Pettitte is fine because it’s only a 1 yr deal. But if he asked for 2 at 30 mil, you have to walk away. Also, ast yr’s injury wasnt arm related.

    I doubt the Yanks go after Soriano. It just doesnt make sense to offer relievers multi yr deals at big money.

  382. 4time December 16th, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    more and more, I’m thinking that Crawford wasn’t merely a bluff – he was a legit. plan B.

    Cash did say at the winter meetings that he had things “lined up” in the event Lee didn’t sign. Perhaps he had some deals lined up for Swisher/Gardner and planned to sign Crawford to replace them, but obviously can’t execute those deals now because there are no replacements.

    On the surface, it doesn’t appear to make much sense to sign Crawford to a $142 million deal, but maybe Cash had other things lined up and those plans were foiled now… could be why he immediately offered Lee 7 years upon Crawford signing, because he knew his Plan B was gone.

    His comments today about Montero are very intriguing though – perhaps he has some ideas.

  383. JCPD December 16th, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Cash and Dave Dombroski seem to have a good working relation….. just sayin’

  384. MTU December 16th, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    All I can say is that the Yankees value pitching very much.

    If there is something going on in the background that’s what I would imagine it involves. There are serious questions in the rotation.

    Have the Yankees decided that Greinke is a fit for NY ?

    I doubt it but you never know.

    Have they dangled Montero + to anyone ?

    A major move behind the scenes would explain the apparent lack of action on the surface.

    Might just be false hope. We’ll see soon enough.

  385. Chip December 16th, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
    Plan B is they still have essentially the same team that won the wild card last year and went to the ALCS. Minus a horrible Vazquez.

    How are the yankees getting any worse this offseason?

    The other teams are playing catch-up. The RedSox signings so far are so overrated its not even funny anymore.

    ———————-

    The only thing on the Sox that I will say on their behalf is that I seriously doubt they suffer the same massive injuries that depleted their team last year.

    Youk, Pedroia and 2/3 of their OF missing almost the entire season made last year more of a fluke than an indication of their actual ability.

  386. jpb173 December 16th, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    If the Yankees sign Soriano (I have doubts about those rumors) and Pedro Feliciano then it means Joba Chamberlain either gets traded or goes back into the rotation. With those 2 and Rivera, Robertson & Logan there won’t be room for him in the ‘pen.

  387. Pat M. December 16th, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Yankee fans are going to love Russell Martin…….

  388. Irreverent Discourse December 16th, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    Chip – Yet with those 2 major injuries, their offense was not the issue. The pitching was.

  389. clownthrowindown December 16th, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    Irrelevance,
    “The other teams are playing catch-up. The RedSox signings so far are so overrated its not even funny anymore.”

    Don’t you think its odd that only Yankee fans feel that way? And, actually, only some Yankee fans. You need a new prescription for your pinstriped glasses.

  390. MTU December 16th, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    Pat M.-

    I know I’m gonna love any guy who can throw out 40% of potential base stealers. That’s for sure.

    So I’m already happy.

    If he hits well I’m even happier.

    If he returns to all star form you have to be ecstatic.

  391. Pat M. December 16th, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    MTU……Before he was saddled with injuries that he kept playing through, he carried a real nice stick…..He calls a very good game, handles the staff real well and is a throw back type catcher…….He was the heart and soul of The LA Dodgers….The glue, much out of the mold of his new Skipper Joe Giradi except with a much better bat……..This may seem like a non glamor signing, but come July he’ll be a Yankee fan favorite……..The dude was an All-Star catcher with a great future ahead of him……..

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    Skin??VCO can be used internally and externally as an effective addition to your
    skincare routine. It helps to keep connective
    tissues strong and supple so that the skin doesn’t sag and wrinkle.

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