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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Could the Yankees have topped the Greinke offer?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 19, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Poor Zack Greinke. His turn as the most desirable pitcher in baseball didn’t even last a week.

In the days leading up to Greinke’s trade to the Brewers, the Royals were said to be focused on up-the-middle prospects, and that’s exactly what they got. Because the prospects package was built around a shortstop and center fielder, it really doesn’t matchup especially well with the Yankees minor league system, but the Yankees could have matched the raw talent. It simply would have taken a lot to do so.

Here’s what the Brewers are sending to Kansas City.

SS Alcides Escobar
Had a disappointing first full season in the big leagues — .235/.288/.326 — but he also just turned 24 and entered the 2010 season as the top shortstop prospect in baseball. The Yankees don’t have anyone quite like Escobar, but 10 months ago, Baseball America ranked Jesus Montero as a slightly better overall prospect. If the Royals wanted a premier young shortstop, the Yankees couldn’t have matched that (Eduardo Nunez doesn’t matchup with Escobar), but they could have topped the headline talent.

CF Lorenzo Cain
Finally healthy, Cain  spent 2010 establishing himself as a premier prospect. He hit .317/.402/.432 between Double-A and Triple-A, then got to the big leagues and hit .306/.348/.415 with seven stolen bases in 43 games. He’s considered an elite defender. The easy comparison here is Brett Gardner, though Cain is three years younger.

RHP Jake Odorizzi
A supplemental first-round pick in 2008,  Odorizzi was actually labeled as a “lesser version of Zack Greinke” in Baseball America’s breakdown of the top prospects in the Midwest League. Hard for me to say for sure, but Odorizzi probably ranks closer to the Yankees top three pitching prospects (Betances, Banuelos, Brackman) than their second tier (Noesi, Phelps, Warren, etc.).

RHP Jeremy Jeffress/PTBNL
Another former first-round pick, Jeffress moved to the bullpen this year and moved quickly to the big leagues. He’s drawn raves for his raw talent, but he’s also had multiple drug suspensions. The fourth piece in the deal has been reported as Jeffress, and it’s been reported as a player to be named later. If it’s Jeffress, then you’re looking at a second legitimate pitching prospect. If not, the fact Jeffress was floated in earlier rumors, makes me think the PTBNL is at least fairly significant.

As long as the Royals weren’t sold on the idea of landing a shortstop, a package of Montero, Gardner, Brackman and Nova probably would have topped the Brewers offer, but that’s a massive group. If I weren’t convinced already — I was — the fact Escobar was traded makes me absolutely certain the Yankees would have been forced to part with Montero to get Greinke. He’s a bigger prospect than anyone in the Brewers package, but that’s the only way the Yankees could have made up for not having a comparable shortstop. Guys like Greinke never come come cheap, and he certainly didn’t come cheap today.

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275 Responses to “Could the Yankees have topped the Greinke offer?”

  1. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Carlo,

    True. Since we’re talking about Zambrano, there’s no chance he ends up here. This should be comforting to those who don’t want Zambrano and don’t want anyone talking about him.

  2. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Of course they could have topped the offer but why should they offer one of the top prospects in the game for a possible 2 year rental?

  3. ZMAN December 19th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Absolutely they could have. Read CBs post in the last thread.

  4. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
    “please, no zambrano, he’s just got too much joaquin andujar for me.”

    ysguy-

    reputations take on a life of their own in baseball.

    andujar used to knock on my door at 7 am when i was a bullpen catcher on the team he was on to go do extra work. no one worked harder than andujar preparing from what i saw .
    i also saw how other star type players reacted to him.he was treated with a huge amount of respect as a player.

    maybe zambrano is a bad fit for the yankees , but on the on the other hand maybe his reputation is worse than he actually is.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Besides…who besides Joaquin Andujar can describe baseball in two words: “You never know.”?

  5. Dee December 19th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Thanks for the reassurance Carlo. I was starting to get nervous with the thought of Zambrano in a Yankees uniform. Maybe we should just keep talking him up because then there is more of a chance he will not be a Yankee.

  6. G-C December 19th, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Not sure how much precedent there is for a 24 year old who was as bad as Escobar was last year at the plate to even eventually emerge as a good offensive player. Its not like he was 20 years old or anything. He played at a comparable age to most top prospects when when they first break into the big leagues.

    What’s his upside? .300/.340/.420? Even that is a MILE away from where he was last year. And while that makes him a very useful player given his defensive ability, that value doesn’t even approach Montero’s as a flat out designated hitter.

  7. Patrick December 19th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Chad I think you are overrating the Brewers prospects here. I think the Yanks could have topped that offer without Montero, Gardner or Banuelos in the deal.

  8. Yankee Trader December 19th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Zambrano- Better than the remaining FA starters out there, except Pettitte. I’m sure Cubs would throw in $$ to unload that contract and might include, not Marmol, but lefty Sean Marshall, who might be able to take on the 5th starters role if Pettitte retires.

  9. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    # mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Playing for the Yankees would calm down Zambrano .

  10. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    reen December 19th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
    I don’t recall Zambrano being a “problem” until the last 2 years or so. Did anything happen in particular, or was I just not as tuned in to him before that?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Doreen, could the fact that he has the same personality as Lou Piniella have anything to do with it?

  11. Carlo December 19th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Dee – this is why I am glad Josh Johnson isn’t discussed ad nauseum. He’s the only game changer I see out there with the potential for speculation.

  12. Jerzz December 19th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    “Of course they could have topped the offer but why should they offer one of the top prospects in the game for a possible 2 year rental?”

    They were willing to give up their best prospect for a 2 month rental, with no guarantee he would resign.

    Besides, judging from this Brewers package, Montero would not have been necessary to top their offer.

  13. Yankee Trader December 19th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    However with Zambrano, the Yankees might need to hand out taser guns to the rest of the squad and coaches for protection.

  14. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    If the Cubs can’t move Zambrano’s 36 million without the Yankees, I want Marmol, not Marshall, or they lose 36 million. No games here.

  15. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    The Yanks are a winning organization.
    Zambrano has been with a loser for his entire career.

  16. Carlo December 19th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Who here firmly believes the Cubs want to or feel the need to move Zambrano? If they do, they might as well move Soriano as well.

  17. Betsy December 19th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Crawford as a backup plan for $20 million a year? Awful – not only is he not CLOSE to being worth it, but he’s not a pitcher. I don’t love the Yanks offense because there are questions on it, but Crawford was not a need for them.

    I agree with GLove that Cashman has done a pretty awful job. For some reason he refused to trade some combo of Nova/Joba/Brackman/Robertson for Haren, probably assuming he had Lee in the bag. Even if he didn’t assume that, I really hope he didn’t delude himself into thinking that it wasn’t worth giving up a few of the above players for a very good starting pitcher. That would make me wonder about Cash’s ability to evaluate pitching.

    I don’t think Andy is coming back, but if he does, I still don’t see how this is a 95 win team. CC would be the only pitcher without a ? – even Andy would have one hanging over him, given his age.

    As to catcher, Romine did not have a good year last year – offensively or defensively. He has to go back to AA if Montero is going back to AAA, but that said, if Montero has a good spring, why can’t he be the primary backup catcher?

  18. Jerzz December 19th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Zombrano did say this 3 years ago:

    Will the Evil Empire and Yankee Fan get a crack at Zambrano next winter?

    “I like the Yankees, but I don’t see myself pitching at Yankee Stadium. Too many rules,” he said with a laugh. “If I play in New York, it’s going to be with the Mets. First of all, because I get to hit. And I love hitting.

    “I can’t say … that I would never play for the Yankees. Hopefully no, but you never know. This is a business.”

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....act/1.html

  19. Dee December 19th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Yankee Trader December 19th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
    Zambrano- Better than the remaining FA starters out there, except Pettitte. I’m sure Cubs would throw in $$ to unload that contract and might include, not Marmol, but lefty Sean Marshall, who might be able to take on the 5th starters role if Pettitte retires.

    –I will take Sean Marshall without Zambrano.

  20. Yankee Trader December 19th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    The Royals were looking for major league ready by 2012, preferably now, players at CF, SS/2B, and 2 pitchers, all cost efficient. Gardner they probably would have still taken, even though he’s arb eligible. Nunez would probably have been needed. As to the two pitchers, which would you have given up to trade for Greinke?

  21. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    I just skipped over Betsy’s post and it felt GoooooooooooooD.

  22. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    What’s the fascination with Dan Haren?

  23. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    I think Andy’s coming back.
    Without a doubt…

  24. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    I think it’s likely that the Royals asked the Yankees for much more, as do most teams, which is why the Yankees have to overspend these jacks into oblivion. I just want them to do it more smartly.

  25. Purenyyankee December 19th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    I don’t know why Cashman is sitting on his hands. With a questionable rotation after CC, you have to lengthen the pen. Go get Soriano.

  26. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    # mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    The Yanks are a winning organization.
    Zambrano has been with a loser for his entire career.

    116 - 74

  27. Chad Jennings December 19th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Patrick-

    You may be right, but if the Royals were targeting up-the-middle position players, the Brewers certainly matched up better than the Yankees. To beat that, I think they would have been forced to top the overall talent, and that would have required Montero. All four going to Kansas City are legit young players.

  28. Yankee Trader December 19th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    Dee-
    I would take Sean Marshall also, but he cost the Cubs only .95M last year.
    The only way I’d be interested in Zambrano, is if Rothschild gives Cashman the green light, Cashman talks to Piniella, and the Cubs throw in a good chunk of $$.

  29. yanks 27 December 19th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Bret,

    More and more, I’m starting to think that Crawford was indeed Plan B, not a bluff. Perhaps he had something lined up with one of his OFs, that he can’t do now because we don’t have a replacement for one of them. Remember, the whole world thought he was going to LA anyway, not Boston. It’s not like he was one of Boston’s clear targets and he had to drive up the price on him.

    I mean, it’s either that, or he had no Plan B.

  30. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    # Yankee Trader December 19th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    Dee-
    I would take Sean Marshall also, but he cost the Cubs only .95M last year.
    The only way I’d be interested in Zambrano, is if Rothschild gives Cashman the green light, Cashman talks to Piniella, and the Cubs throw in a good chunk of $$.
    ————————————————————
    wasn’t Joe G with the Cubs when Z was young

  31. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Montero for Greinke even up would have been an overpay.

  32. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    I thought they both had 3 years left. AJ is about 50m over 3 and Z is 36 for 2….Nevermind.
    The Cubs won’t do it.

  33. Dassit December 19th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    I agree with GLove that Cashman has done a pretty awful job. For some reason he refused to trade some combo of Nova/Joba/Brackman/Robertson for Haren, probably assuming he had Lee in the bag. Even if he didn’t assume that, I really hope he didn’t delude himself into thinking that it wasn’t worth giving up a few of the above players for a very good starting pitcher. That would make me wonder about Cash’s ability to evaluate pitching.

    ——-

    Why do you assume a combo of Nova/Joba/Brackman/Robertson was enough to get Haren. Where did you read he was refusing to throw in some of these guys? You said yesterday that Robertson was nothing special and all that. Besides, Joba fell off his own damn cliff while Brackman is just back to being an okay prospect. Why would the D-Backs want that package?

  34. YsGuy December 19th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    grienke with his ‘condition’…
    zambrano, the headcase…
    next we’ll be weighing what we can get out of ollie perez.

    maybe the sox do have a better rotation, maybe not.
    other pitchers will become available during next season and we’ll be in the best position to put together a package to get what we need.

    in the meantime, lets see what we have. hughes might be ready to step up again. maybe montero sends martin to the bench and we decide he’s too good to give up.
    im good with our team even before it gets filled out.

    o and come back andy, we need you again!”

    Go G-Men!

  35. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    with a 116 – 74 record I wouldn’t call Z a loser

  36. TD213 December 19th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    With all these other options flying off the board, Zambrano looks better and better each day.

    And unless he signs Soriano, it doesn’t look like beefing up the pen was Cashman’s Plan B either. So what is?

  37. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    I’m a changed man thanks to Carlo……no more Yankee bashing

  38. Betsy December 19th, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Now you know how I feel when I skip over your posts, Bret ………..so gooooood.

  39. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    # Betsy December 19th, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Now you know how I feel when I skip over your posts, Bret ………..so gooooood.
    —————————————-
    you read my stuff

  40. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Yanks 27,

    It’s possible Boston’s plan A was to sabotage the Yankees plan B early by snatching up Crawford and hoping Lee went back to Texas. As soon as Werth signed with the Nats, this made the most sense for them.

    They must be doing cartwheels in that front office.

  41. TD213 December 19th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    “Why would the D-Backs want that package?”

    Look at what the Angels gave up for him. Joe Saunders? A back-end starter who is almost 30, who is due for for some decent $$ in arbitration?

    I would bet Cash passed on the deal because A. We were playing well at the time and the rotation was in pretty good shape and B. He was confident in signing Lee and didn’t feel he needed Haren, long-term, even at his low cost.

  42. Betsy December 19th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Apparently the Nats had a deal for Greinke, but he wouldn’t wave his NTC

  43. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    I skipped over Betsy’s post again!!!

    ORGASMIC!!!!

    :lol:

  44. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    gb7-

    i think this was the quote:

    “My favorite word in English is ‘youneverknow.’”

    http://www.baseball-almanac.co.....andj.shtml

    here’s some more good ones.

    “How can I play baseball if I’m stupid? If I was stupid I wouldn’t have pitched in the World Series. I’d be playing ball in Mexico or Yugoslavia or on Pluto.”

    “It was no problem (getting along with Joaquin Andujar). I didn’t talk to him on days he was mad, and he was mad all year long.” – St. Louis Cardinals Manager Whitey Herzog

  45. Betsy December 19th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    TD, if he felt so good about the rotation, why did he even look into Haren? If he felt that confident about Lee, that was a giant mistake. He could have traded Haren anyway if they ended up with a surplus later on……

  46. Carlo December 19th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Joeman – glad I was able to help you. Nobody gets more disgusted with the yanks when things don’t go right. Ur passion is aces in my book. Plus, ur a gambler, which is also aces in my book.

  47. Yankee Trader December 19th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Joeman-

    Girardi played with the Cubs from 2000 thru 2002. Zambrano was a call-up in 2001, pitching 7.2 innings, started 16 games in 2002, 32 games in 2003, so Girardi did get a glimpse of his potential in 2002 when he went 4-8 with a 3.66 ERA in 108.1 innings.

  48. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Romine was the 2009 FSL Player Of The Year. He put up virtually the same numbers in 2010 in a higher league and in a park that is especially tough on right handed hitters because of the signage in the outfield. One in particular is a sign for an optometrist. His defense also improved…as did Montero’s. So much for bad reports and not checking things out.

  49. JT December 19th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Zambrano here would be tremendously entertaining. I would love to be in the Stadium on a night when Zambrano starts for the Yanks.

  50. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Randy, Andujar was two of a kind.

  51. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 1:01 pm
    I skipped over Betsy’s post again!!!

    ORGASMIC!!!!

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    I assume that’s the first time for you.

  52. CompassRosy December 19th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    …the Mariners are going NOWHERE!!! I mean that franchise is terribly run, their GM does not understand that ballpark and how to construct an offense, he made some atrocious deals…

    Stoneburner ~
    As a Mariner fan, I think I’ll give Jack Z a bit more time before passing judgment…
    In the 5 years prior to Jack’s arrival, the M’s lost 92 more games than they won and saw the big club AND the farm system weakened by bad trades and ridiculous draft picks by the previous GM. To say that Jack Z’s job is not an easy one is an understatement of large proportion.

    Obviously, there were some miscues, and Jack has admitted such. He has referred to last season as an embarrassment and taken total accountability – even though, it’s by NO means ALL his fault. I think the “pitching and defense” premise for roster construction was, and still is, a very sound one – especially considering a park like Safeco Field. While I don’t think they expected to go to the WS last season, they certainly didn’t expect nearly every position player to perform SO far below their career norms either. And, Jack being hamstrung at the DH position (with those above him on the Griffey bandwagon) and the fact that the clubhouse went from kumbaya one year to chaos the next didn’t help either.

    The link below has a pretty good synopsis on Jack’s job so far…
    http://tinyurl.com/298sp8n

  53. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Glad the Greinke drama is over.

    Until 2013.

  54. G. Love December 19th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Betsy,

    The die was cast last year for this years rotation. The Yankees should have seen that they were 3 starting pitchers short without Andy last year and made it the goal to acquire the pitchers in season even if it looked like they were being greedy.

    How would you feel today if the rotation right now was CC, Hughes, Haren, Lilly and AJ with Andy possible to return?

    That was possible to pull off last year but the team clung to the hopes that Cliff Lee was dying to be a Yankee and live in CC’s basement and now look at our rotation without Andy.

    Last year was the time to put this rotation together for the next couple of years until the B’s were ready.

  55. Carlo December 19th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    I keep trying to tell myself that beating the Eagles today will make up for Lee. its not working for me.

  56. Carlo December 19th, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Quick Poll:

    Yes – cashman has something brewing for a front of the rotation starter not named pettitte

    No – cashman has nothing going, its andy and another back end guy to compete with nova and mitre

  57. austinmac December 19th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    I would have taken a risk with Greinke and I would take one with Zambrano. However, I have a question: Has anyone actually seen evidence the Cubs want to move him or is this another blog creation?

  58. austinmac December 19th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Carlo,

    Unfortunately, the answer is easy it seems to me–no.

  59. Carlo December 19th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Amac – I asked that question 30 minutes ago in this thread, I haven’t seen anyone site anything that leads me to believe there is more to this than blog inertia.

  60. JoeyA December 19th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    Looking back, Yanks had a few options to upgrade the rotation without putting all our eggs in the Cliff Lee basket.

    That’s truly the shame of it all. Our rotation won’t be a strong part of our team until the Bs develop. We are built to win now but can’t find a true #2.

  61. austinmac December 19th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    When did Pettitte become a sure deal? It wasn’t long ago Lee was listed on everyone’s rotation for the Yankees. The Yankees are two starters short until and unless Pettitte signs.

  62. JoeyA December 19th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    Carlo-

    Is he trying – Yes

    Will he succeed in prying away a team’s top 1 or 2 starter? – No

  63. Carlo December 19th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    Andy is a sure thing now in my eyes because to think he isn’t is too depressing.

  64. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    if by some chance zambrano was traded to the yankees for 2011, look for him to be the most hated yankee at fenway in no time.

    can you imagine him buzzing youkillis’ light tower?

    they would absolutely hate him in boston.

    something to think about as a reason for getting him:)

  65. austinmac December 19th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Carlo,

    Agree it is annually thought.

  66. JoeyA December 19th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    When did Pettitte become a sure deal?
    —–————————-

    This is the question I’ve been asking austinmac-

    The way Andy is talked about on this blog, you would think Cy Young is choosing to pitch for us.

    Andy is good for 140-160 innings. Depending on him for more is foolish. Can he give us more- maybe, but it wouldn’t be smart to build your team around the idea of Pettitte being a horse.

    We need a top of the rotation starter – plain and simple. We have CC, a glaring hole in 2 spot, than Hughes, AJ, and Nova.

    If we bring back Andy, he move everyone back a spot, still leaving a hole for #2.

  67. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    http://www.suntimes.com/sports.....ching.html

    there’s some smoke with zambrano to the yankees .

    it’s not a totally crazy idea.

  68. 108 stitches December 19th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    I just can’t help but think what Zambrano did after he returned from anger management sessions last season ……. like day and night. At some point, Cashman must have talked to Rothschild about his now former pitcher.
    How do we know that a big contributor wasn’t bad chemistry on the Cubs resulting in Zambrano waiving his full no-trade clause ?
    If Burnett and Zambrano were the central pieces in a deal, Zambrano is 3 1/2 years younger than Burnett and one less year in contract obligation.
    Sounds better if an expansion could be done to add Carlos Marmol to solve another problem for the Yankees.

  69. Betsy December 19th, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    GLove, but last year we had CC, AJ, Andy, Phil and Javy……..not sure I agree with you. AJ was expected to be “ok” – like he was at least in 2009 – not like the disastrous year he had this year. I really thought Javy was only supposed to be a #4 – it was a good move that didn’t work out. I can’t blame Cash for that. I know nothing about the Yankees and Lilly…….how hard they went after him, how much the Cubs were asking. In any case, he’s no savior and what he did in the NL doesn’t really mean he would have done the same in the AL. If the Yankees made a fair deal and the Cubs traded him to LA anyway, not much can be done. Haren was a mistake, no doubt.

  70. JK December 19th, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Here’s the problem the Yankees face and why their best bet to acquire a front line starter is always via free agency…

    AL East teams…
    Major trades don’t happen within the division, so cross 4 teams off the trade list.

    Tigers…
    100M+ team, they can afford Verlander’s contract

    Twins…
    They will probably have to move Liriano within 2 years but not right now, plus the Yankees have broken their fans hearts so many times that there will be HUGE pressure to make us overpay similar to Santana

    KC…
    They always want the Yankees to overpay in trades & they have no front line starters

    Whitesox…
    No problem trading with Williams, but they are a 100M+ team and can afford to pay Floyd

    Indians…
    Indians are a possible trade partner, but they have no front line pitchers

    Oakland…
    Guaranteed to deal young starters in the future, but right now all their front of the rotation starters make no money

    Angels…
    100M+ team, they can afford to pay Weaver in future

    Texas…
    They have no front line starters and it could be very difficult dealing with their front office for a few years

    Seattle…
    100M+ team, they can afford to keep Hernandez and dealing with their GM has been a problem for 2 years now (Washburn & Lee)

    ^^^^ The Yankees always have very few options for trade partners within the AL, so they are usually left having to deal with the NL. This is the reason the Yankees always end up trading for NL pitchers (Johnson, Brown, Neagle, Vazquez twice), and the problem with NL pitchers is the huge difference between the leagues. A NL starter without any AL experience has to be a #1 pitcher with a high K rate and very low walk rate to be a front line starter in the AL.

    Other than Carpenter who can’t be resigned after they pay Pujols & the Philly pitchers, none of the #1 pitchers in the NL are making 15M+, 1 year away from free agency or coming into a 13M+ back loaded contracts.

  71. Betsy December 19th, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    If Cash makes an effort to get this guy, then I don’t ever want to hear from him that the clubhouse is an issue.

  72. Betsy December 19th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    I don’t see any smoke about Zambrano; all that article said was that the NY media is speculating about it

  73. Betsy December 19th, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    JK, then the Yankees have to be patient enough to develop their young pitching

  74. vinny-b December 19th, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    been a Royals fan dating back to 1985.

    would like to hang Dayton Moore from a team. That franchise will not be relevant, as long as he is GM. What good is it to build up a farm system, if you can’t evaluate talent on a ML level? Anyone??

    anyway, it is my 2nd fave team. And this sucks

  75. vinny-b December 19th, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    typo: from a TREE

  76. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    IMO, Cashman should concentrate on convincing Andy to return for 1 more season, and negotiate with teams with excess starting pitching – like the White Sox – to add someone like Mark Buehlre or Edwin Jackson.

    CC, Hughes, AJ, Buehrle/Jackson, Pettitte

    And if Andy retires, substitute Nova.

    Add 1 more arm to the pen and we’re ready for battle.

  77. Dee December 19th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Everybody keeps talking about Payroll, the Cubs, and Zambrano. Anyone know if Dempster is available? I think he is a much better option if so. Can fit nicely in the 2 hole behind CC and wouldn’t be prone to meltdowns and acts of insanity.

  78. Carlo December 19th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    The scariest part of zambrano to me is the reduced velocity. The temperment can be dealt with. Not having stuff to get AL hitters out is a problem though.

    And him going 8-0 to finish last year doesn’t inspire me. A few of those wins likely came against september call ups…..though I admit I haven’t checked the game logs so that could be wrong.

  79. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    I’d aim for Zambrano and Marmol and let them pick from:

    Joba Chamberlain-p
    Eduardo Nunez-ss
    David Adams-2b
    Brandon Laird-3b
    Ivan Nova-p
    David Phelps-p
    Hector Noesi-p
    Adam Warren-p
    Graham Stoneburner-p
    Corban Joseph-2b
    Slade Heathcott-cf
    Jose Ramirez-p
    JR Murphy-c

  80. vinny-b December 19th, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    why didn’t KC trade Greinke to Texas??

  81. 108 stitches December 19th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    If Andy doesn’t return and the season starts tomorrow, the rotation shows C.C., Hughes, Burnett, Nova, and Mitre.
    The No. 3 starter is the guy that’s 1 game UNDER .500 with a combined ERA of 4.65 for the past 2 years at $16.5 per year and 3 years remaining. Terrific !

  82. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Carlo,

    The reduced velocity concerns me too but I suspect if he were still throwing mid-upper 90′s he wouldn’t be available despite his volatile temperament.

    He did add a cutter before reeling off 8 wins to finish 2010 at 8-0 in the second half. The movement on his fastball is helping him keep the ball on the ground and his secondary stuff is swing and miss. I’d love if he still could bring the heater but that’s greed talking. His as is stuff translates I think.

  83. 108 stitches December 19th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Dee :

    Ryan Dempster is 4 years older than Zambrano with $13.5M due in 2011 and $14M due in 2012. OK but even better if Carlos Marmol is packaged in the deal.

  84. Carlo December 19th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Fair Brett – well laid out.

  85. blake December 19th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    Im not sure how I feel about the Zambrano stuff. He could be a good stopgap until some of the young guys are ready. If the Cubs want to pick up some salary and accept non impact prospects from the Yankees then it could be an option to consider…..it could also be a disaster and giant waste of money as well.

  86. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    “If Cash makes an effort to get this guy, then I don’t ever want to hear from him that the clubhouse is an issue.”

    betsy-

    there’s no chance that the yankees would get zambrano without rothschild being 100% behind the idea. and no one knows him better, so if anyone has inside info about zambrano it would be the yankees.

    there are headcases and there are headcases.

    i would rather have a headcase who gets hitters out then a low maintenance boy scout who gets hammered.

    i think it’ll be interested in what rothschild tells the yankees.

  87. austinmac December 19th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    The key to whether the Yankees have any interest in Zambrano is Rothschild. He saw him before and after the latest meltdown and he saw his stuff. His 90.2 MPH fastball is a concern. I think it is the best risk out potentially available.

  88. Cashman needs to go December 19th, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    HELLO…. third place….

    Well at least they did achieve their goal for 2011 – a payroll under 200 million. And in about 5 years they’ll have the #1 draft pick in baseball. Nice going Cash and Hal..George must not only be rolling but doing backflips in his grave..

  89. JT December 19th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Beckett vs. Zambrano on some Tuesday night. We’d all be in front of our TV sets at 7:05.

  90. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    no one else sees the humor in the 6’5″ 270 pound surly zambrano pitching against the red sox in fenway ?

    he would be an instant villain.

    CC is bigger, but he’s a nice guy hard to hate kind of guy.

    zambrano would be an in your face kind of guy.

    he’s got to throw harder that 89 though if those rumors are true.

  91. tyanksfan36 December 19th, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    I didn’t realize Pierre-Paul was with the Giants. I don’t care for any other new york teams but he is from my college so I wish him luck

  92. J. Alfred Prufrock December 19th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    JT December 19th, 2010 at 1:55 pm
    Beckett vs. Zambrano on some Tuesday night. We’d all be in front of our TV sets at 7:05.

    ////and you’d be there all night. 11-9 score or thereabouts.

  93. Tar December 19th, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Randy

    Have you seen Romulo Sanchez pitch? He is a big boy with very good 95+ heater and a decent change. Definitely fits the bill as Surly, villain type pitcher. All this Zambrano talk has me thinking of him.

  94. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Sanchez will drive everyone nuts with deep counts and walks.

  95. ac1 December 19th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    do you people ever get tired of overreacting. It is December. Cashman will not go into the season with Nova and Mitre as 4-5, nor are they going to sit on the money they were going to pay Lee.

  96. 108 stitches December 19th, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Every deal comes with a certain amount of risk. He who hesitates is lost. No such thing as a GM that makes nothing but perfect deals.

  97. Mike Ri December 19th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Cashman . .Patience

  98. Tar December 19th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    “Sanchez will drive everyone nuts with deep counts and walks”

    That was his MO the couple of times I seen him pitch. I will say his FB is fun to watch. He definitely has that Zambrano temperament, which is why I mentioned him.

  99. JT December 19th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    ////and you’d be there all night. 11-9 score or thereabouts.

    ——-

    Nah. Roid Era is over.

    6-5 Yanks in 11.

    Zambrano walks 5 and strikes out 7 in a gutty 6.2 IP. Not bad for the #5 starter.

    And yes, we all go to bed late.

  100. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    tar-

    no i haven’t seen him pitch, but i like surly pitchers if they’re good.

    “Sanchez will drive everyone nuts with deep counts and walks.”

    gb7-

    how would anyone tell on the blog if people were driven nuts?

    most are already over the edge.

    i think anyone who spends as much time as regulars do here without getting paid that they (we )are already a few neurons short of a full deck.

    zambrano would be excellent blog fodder .

  101. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    zambrano would be excellent blog fodder too .

  102. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    no i haven’t seen him pitch, but i like surly pitchers if they’re good

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    What’s your take on surly golfers?

  103. JK December 19th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Here is another reason the Yankees shouldn’t even think of trading for Zambrano

    2006 4.8 bb/9
    2007 4.2 bb/9
    2009 4.1 bb/9
    2010 4.8 bb/9

    What do you think those walk rates will look like in the AL East pitching in Yankee stadium as a right hander with that left field wall?

    If the the Yankees want to pay 17M for 100-110 pitches in 5 innings & a mid 4 era, they might as well stick Chamberlain back in the rotation

  104. JK December 19th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    i mean right field wall.

  105. JT December 19th, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    If the the Yankees want to pay 17M for 100-110 pitches in 5 innings & a mid 4 era, they might as well stick Chamberlain back in the rotation
    ———

    Yes, but they don’t want Joba in the rotation. And he will be traded before spring training anyway.

  106. JK December 19th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    If healthy, by mid July Phelps, Mitchell, Brackman & Noesi will all have 70+ AAA innings under their belts. There is a very good chance 1-2 of those guys dominate AAA and could force their way to the majors.

  107. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    “What’s your take on surly golfers?”

    one time i was playing with a nice old 80year old guy who was taking a while between shots and the group behind us starting hitting balls into us.

    when one just missed the old guy’s head by a few inches., i drove the cart back and threw the guys bag with all his clubs in it in 6 feet of water.

    that solved that problem.

  108. Doreen December 19th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
    reen December 19th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
    I don’t recall Zambrano being a “problem” until the last 2 years or so. Did anything happen in particular, or was I just not as tuned in to him before that?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Doreen, could the fact that he has the same personality as Lou Piniella have anything to do with it?

    ******
    GB7 -

    Could be. Could be he was having some arm trouble and couldn’t handle it. I just know that he was a highly regarded pitcher for most of his tenure there until recently.

  109. Doreen December 19th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Actually, if Zambrano is indeed in play, I am warming to the idea.

    It allows the Yankees to hold on to as many prospects as they can. He’s a short-term plug in the rotation, so even if he’s “surly,” it’s only for 2 years and then he’s out.

    Yeah, maybe on Zambrano.

    :)

    P.S. I really doubt Cash is “sitting on his hands.” The guy looks like he never sleeps and he’s got a blackberry indentation on the side of his face.

    Fact is he did see issues with the rotation which is why he was willing to gamble a Montero-led package to get Cliff Lee on the chance Lee would sign with them afterward something Cashman NEVER does. It’s what makes me think that for whatever reason, the Yankees simply did not like something about Haren.

    And Lilly? Isn’t he very happily entrenched in Dodgertown these days? The Yankees passed on Lilly in favor of Igawa, didn’t they? they must not like something about Lilly in the AL East.

    There IS an AL East test, you know. ;)

  110. Doreen December 19th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Where’d everyone go?

    :)

  111. Betsy December 19th, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Randy, I’m not looking for a boy scout, but Zambrano is an Albert Belle-type and that’s not a good thing for the clubhouse. It doesn’t matter to me if Rothschild thinks he can handle Zambrano……..the guy is a loose cannon to say the least.

  112. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Doreen,

    Some folks are watching the football.

  113. Doreen December 19th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    I’d really like someone’s opinion on Zambrano who saw him play in Chicago prior to the last 2 years.

  114. Betsy December 19th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Surly on the mound is one thing – or even off it – but Zambrano is a lot more than that. He’s fought with teammates and just this year had a complete meltdown….no thanks

  115. austinmac December 19th, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Doreen,

    We all have severe greinkeitis. Some feel better today and some worse.

  116. Tom in N.J. December 19th, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    I’m not a fan of angry people.

  117. Doreen December 19th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    DaSaint007

    I have it on, too. But I admit I’ve been multitasking today. Taking a break while the roast is in the oven. Dinner after the game and then back to the cookies. :)

  118. 108 stitches December 19th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    This will not be a bridge year. Traffic on the East River and Hudson River bridges is bad enough as it is.
    Not a tunnel year either.

  119. brianlopez22 December 19th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    Reading these comments and from the previous post, people get dumber and dumber.

    Does anyone think Seattle will give up King Felix without getting Montero, Betances, and Banuelos? They have him locked up for a long time.

    Greinke is a head case, he would not last in New York, the first day we boo him, his feelings would be hurt and he’d be out the rest of the year with his social anxiety.

    AJ for Zambrano is just stupid. There is one pitcher in baseball who is a bigger headcase than AJ, its Zambrano. Additionally, this trade would not save the Cubs any money, that would be the benefit to the Cubs.

    Bottom line, the “smartest” and most available pitcher is Josh Johnson from the Marlins. King Felix has a no-trade clause against the Yankees.
    Again, this would most definitely cost us Jesus Montero and Betances or Banuelos.
    So are we willing to part with 2 top 10 prospects for Josh Johnson?

    If Andy comes back, this team is good enough to win the wildcard.
    We can hope that Lackey and Beckett continue their history and get hurt.

    People want to overreact because Boston had a HUGE offseason. Our team is very old, and the free agents in 2011 are horrible, at best (Carpenter and Wainwright have team options)
    so why not get our stud prospects ready for the show? Maybe we have studs in Betances and Banuelos. Montero needs to be given a chance to show us how good he really is.

    With the age of our stars and the lack of available aces, we need to see what we have.

  120. Doreen December 19th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    austinmac -

    I see. :lol:

    Well, you know how this blog is. Now it will be all Zambrano all the time, I guess, until that does or does not happen.

    Actually, that was the quickest turn-around from Greinke is a Royal, to Greinke wants to be traded, to Grienke hires a new agent, to Greinke is traded to the Brewers, that I’ve ever witnessed!!!!

    :lol:

  121. Yankee Trader December 19th, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    If the Yankees are able to lure Pettitte back for one more season, then I think they’ll go for a low cost option. Brad Penny is engaged to a Dancing with the Stars regular and supposedly has him whipped into shape. So he might be worth a look, if not too exhausted.

  122. 108 stitches December 19th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    I never realized there were so many amatuer psychologists attempting to diagnose Greinke and Zambrano. A lot of wannabes have the weekend off from duty at Bellevue.

  123. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    have seen recent photo’s of Penny..he’s nowhere near the size he was ..dropped a bunch of lbs

  124. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Bottom line, the “smartest” and most available pitcher is Josh Johnson from the Marlins.
    —————————————————————————–
    he’s not going to be traded anywhere

  125. West Coast Yankee Fan December 19th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    Zambrano – Freddy Garcia – Pavano

    Joy to the world la la la la …….

  126. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    “It doesn’t matter to me if Rothschild thinks he can handle Zambrano……..the guy is a loose cannon to say the least.”

    betsy-

    if rothschild know how to tie down the loose cannon, then the yankees would have a fixed cannon right?

    rothschild would know if it was worth doing. if the yankees did it at this point i ‘d be in favor because the yankees have the ultimate insider advising them.

    if the the yankees pass, i’d figure that rothschild had something to do with that too.

  127. LGY December 19th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    Just saw the Greinke news. The best I can say about that package is meh. Would be really mad as a Royals fan if the franchise player was just traded and didn’t get any knock out superstar prospect back. Seems like Moore just traded by far his best trade chip for a bunch of complentary players.

  128. LGY December 19th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    *superstar potential*

  129. LGY December 19th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Betsy

    You seem really quick with that no thanks trigger considering how critical you are of the rotation.

    Who are you ok with?

  130. LGY December 19th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    If Andy comes back the Yankee rotation will be fine. People are severly underestimating this team.

    In 2009 the won the WS with essentially 3 pitchers.

    In 2010 they had basically 2 replacement level pitchers in the rotation the whole year and 3 when Pettitte went down and the scrubs like Moseley were filling in.

  131. Mike Ri December 19th, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    LGY-

    What makes you think even if we get Andy back he’ll pitch the way he did last year . ??? Can he sustain a whole year without injury ?? How will his 40 year old arm hold up at the end of the season.

    He’s not getting any younger or stronger .

  132. Betsy December 19th, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Randy, I guess….it’s a risk because he could truly screw up the clubhouse. I like things to be nice and peaceful and heaven knows what Zambrano would bring to that mix. To be fair, maybe the Yankees do need to take some kind of risk at this point. I don’t know how close Rothschild and Zambrano were………

  133. Betsy December 19th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    LGY, there is no one………..at this point, try and convince Andy to come back and I guess go with Nova. I don’t love it, but what else can we do?

  134. Betsy December 19th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    LGY, we need Andy back very badly, but it’s a mistake to assume he’s going to pitch like he did last year…….and even then he missed half the year.

  135. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    If it were me and the Yanks bring Z over I would just give him one of Youkilis’s old shoes to gnaw on between innings.

    Or maybe just Youkilis himself.

    :)

  136. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    the problem with adding a guy that makes everyone feel better is that youneverknow .

    last year vazquez made almost everyone feel better. he had an amazing year with atlanta. how could he not be a plus? but he was horrible.

    i caught a guy one winter who was a triple a guy the summer before and he started for the national league in the mlb all star game that next summer. youneverknow.

    pitching is elusive so you want to be deep in it.

    deep doesn’t mean just in the top three spots being good. it’s all 12 pitchers and the ones behind them in the minors.

    i don’t love it that the yankees are in an ugly duckiling phase where they are waiting for pitchers to develop or for a major free agent to emerge, but they are at least average and probably better as they stand right now.

    … and they do have sabathia and hughes and mariano. they do have some talent.

  137. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    And if you really want to see a show just give him the Clemens pre-game rubdown. ;)

  138. Tar December 19th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    “Randy, I guess….it’s a risk because he could truly screw up the clubhouse. I like things to be nice and peaceful and heaven knows what Zambrano would bring to that mix.”

    Really, I kind of liked the Billy show myself.

    And really Betsy, do you think Alex, Jeter, Mo, and Jorge to name a few are going to let a Zambrano screw up the clubhouse? That’s just not happening.

  139. LGY December 19th, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    The Yankees had 3 replacement level pitchers in their rotation basicallly at all times for half the season.

    An offense like the Yankees have and an Ace like CC covers a lot of warts.

    Just look at the competition around the AL. Really unimpressive.

  140. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    UFC cage death match.

    Zambrano vs. forty Tasmanian Devils.

    No holds barred.

  141. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    My money is on Z.

  142. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    “If it were me and the Yanks bring Z over I would just give him one of Youkilis’s old shoes to gnaw on between innings.”

    mtu-

    plus have you seen zambrano’s OPS as a right handed hitter? it’s like .720 lifetime.

    he could tick off red sox players, start , relieve, pinch hit, lead brawls, hit batters, basically be your all around multi tasking player.

  143. Betsy December 19th, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    Tar, I remember Donnie and Winfield, but Martin? Not so much…….but I’m glad for that because I would have been very upset at the Bronx Zoo atmosphere. I never loved Piniella as manager because I can’t stand managers who just blow up with little provocation. I like things to be peaceful…..and Zambrano could be a troublemaker.

  144. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    Randy-

    There’s a lot to be said for versatility.

  145. Betsy December 19th, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Tar, no the clubhouse wouldn’t be ruined, but this guy could be a royal pain. I admit that I don’t like any uncertainty and Zambrano would always be a ticking time bomb. Remember that people had doubts about AJ in the clubhouse…….(never mind his pitching) and his antics had been a few years past in Florida. Zambrano just had his meltdown last year. I wonder if those same who were concerned about AJ are not concerned about Zambrano.

  146. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    ‘Just look at the competition around the AL. Really unimpressive.’

    lgy-
    that’s my opinion too.

    i have to go do something, but that’s something to be explored. how good do the yankees have to be to be better than almost everyone?

    how close can they play it to still make the playoffs in this off year for pitching ?

    what if they score 920 runs?

    do they need to be in the top third of the league in pitching for 2011?

  147. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Randy-

    By the way, I had a question for you about the golf story.

    Why did you ruin a perfectly good set of clubs ? Why didn’t you just toss the guy in instead ?

    Next time please correct your error.

  148. West Coast Yankee Fan December 19th, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    In the AL East “an inning eater” is a different animal than he might be in the NL or another AL division. He’s only a valuable commodity IMO if he can get people out.

  149. West Coast Yankee Fan December 19th, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    Bestsy, I think Mariano and Jeter could handle Zambrano. The Yankee clubhouse is a unique one in baseball. They are accorded respect that others aren’t.

  150. Tar December 19th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    “Tar, no the clubhouse wouldn’t be ruined, but this guy could be a royal pain.”

    That’s possible. It’s also possible that he could be so thankful playing with the likes of Mo, Jeter, etc and for W.S. contender, that he would be on his best behaviour.

    Bottom line– if he can pitch effectively, the Yankee clubhouse can handle Zambrano.

  151. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    Zambrano would also have to tangle with The Man-Child Beast.

  152. Betsy December 19th, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    WC, Tar – that’s possible. I guess we’ll have to see. This seems more of a media creation than anything else, to be honest.

  153. Drivenbyjeter2 December 19th, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Why does it matter if the Yankees COULD have topped the offer. OF COURSE they could have. But, AGAIN, Cashman failed to make the big move to put the Yankees back on top.

    There are ABSOLUTELY no more options.

    Cashman F’ed up. Plain and simple. Yankees will be luck to win 90 this year.

  154. Joe from Long Island December 19th, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    Man, the Giants game was shocking. They lose a 21-point lead, and then the way the game ended – Wow!

    Michael Vick won that game, pure and simple.

    Now, on to the Jets. Take a deep breath…..

  155. ac1 December 19th, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    ever consider that KC didnt want to trade with the Yankees?

    Same people complaining about not getting Wood back until it was said he wanted to go back to Chicago.

    And what do you mean AGAIN he failed? Crawford was OVERPAID by Boston. Lee took less to go to Philly.

    What else?

  156. RhapsodyInBlue December 19th, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Way to go G-Men!!

  157. Carl December 19th, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    Been tough for fans of NY sports.

    Knicks dropping 3 in a row, including the Cavs.. No Lee. No Greinke. Jets losing that last game to the Dolphins. Gaints choking just a few seconds ago.

    Wow.

  158. West Coast Yankee Fan December 19th, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    What’s worse than that Carl is who is having a good winter if you get my drift.

  159. J. Alfred Prufrock December 19th, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    108 stitches December 19th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
    I never realized there were so many amatuer psychologists attempting to diagnose Greinke and Zambrano. A lot of wannabes have the weekend off from duty at Bellevue.

    ///yet you psychoanalysed Joba Chamberlain in a recent thread & made a lot of character assumptions about him.

  160. JK December 19th, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    Most likely front line pitchers to come on market in before 2012…

    Cain… free agent 2012
    Hamels… free agent 2012 (can they pay him 20M too?)
    Weaver… free agent 2012 (Boras client = free agency)
    Lirano… free agent 2012
    Santana… Coming into back loaded part of contract
    Oswalt… free agent 2012
    Carpenter…Can they afford him after Pujols contract?
    Johnson… 1 year from 14M a year

  161. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    Can’t blame Cashman and the Steinbrenners for backing off of the Greinke trade if there were concerns over the much stated anxiety issues. That’s a huge gamble to make, if the statements by the “professional in-the-knows” are correct.

  162. JoeyA December 19th, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    in 2009, we essentially won the world series with 3 pitchers.
    ——————————————-

    I love how this is some sort of consolation to people.

    1. all of our players were 2 years younger.

    2. we had good AJ, which is no sure thing

    3. the playoff format has been changed, for the very purpose of not allowing a team to do what the Yankees did in ’09.

    Some here act as if making the playoffs is a foregone conclusion. It’s not.

    We NEED another starter, plain and simple. Resigning Andy Pettitte is not going to give our rotation what it needs to accomplish our goals.

    The rotation, even with Pettitte has no #5, a HUGE ? @ #4, a 24 yr old #3 and, according to people on here, a 38 yr old #2.

    How this is a formidable rotation for the NYY is beyond me. This isnt even a top 5 rotation in baseball.

    The Yankees allowed themselves to put all their eggs in one basket, than severly misinterpret where that basket wants to play.

    Hate to say it, but Cash & Co. screwed the pooch BIG TIME this season.

    Now, it’s either go to battle with what we have or trade a killer B + Montero for a pitcher we hope pans out.

  163. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    GB-

    I always thought Greinke was a flyover country type of guy.

    Didn’t pass the sniff test that a guy like him could handle the snarling dogs of the NY media.

  164. NYY fan in NH December 19th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    giants loss worse loss ever witnessed. NY teams suck right now!!!

  165. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    Now, it’s either go to battle with what we have or trade a killer B + Montero for a pitcher we hope pans out.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    You mean like they’d be doing with Greinke?

    Other than Lee, what pitcher was on the FA or trade market worth spending a ton of money on or trading players in excess of the value coming back?

  166. jacksquat December 19th, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Not a good offseason for Cashman, but I don’t think it’s his fault.

    Hopefully he will pay Pettitte whatever is required (unless he wants 20 mil, but I don’t think he would).

    I’m hoping he finds another decent, reliable starter for less than elite prospects (Montero, Betances, Banuelos), a 3/4 type so Burnett is in the 5 slot.

  167. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    MTU December 19th, 2010 at 4:37 pm
    GB-

    I always thought Greinke was a flyover country type of guy.

    Didn’t pass the sniff test that a guy like him could handle the snarling dogs of the NY media

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Without knowing the players KC would ask for, it’s a gamble that’s not worth making. Apparently, according to a couple of reports, his family may have thought it was a bad idea. his brother said the same thing a couple of weeks ago.

  168. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Panic city here on the blog!
    If the Yankees don’t win the winter offseason, then they certainly can’t win the regular season.

    Guess San Fran won the offseason last year.

  169. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    Maybe SF Giants won with their $120M ace Barry Zito. No, that wasn’t it.
    Maybe they won with that awesome lineup. No, that wasn’t it.
    Maybe they’ve won several WS in the last 10-20 years. No, wasn’t them.
    Maybe they won with talented – key word here – home grown, cost-controlled pitching.

    Nah, that couldn’t be it. Could it??

  170. West Coast Yankee Fan December 19th, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    “Concern” not “panic”.

  171. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Getting Pettitte back would be a big thing. NYYs won’t need a 5th starter until the 4th week of the season. By the end of April/niddle of May, NYYs will have an answer of Nova and the kids most ready in Scranton.

  172. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    ***middle***

  173. Nick in SF December 19th, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    They won in a cloud of smoke.

  174. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    GB-

    Hope things have settled down a bit for you on the homefront.

    Sounds like Greinke may have listened to their advice.

    I’m really surprised The Royals couldn’t find a match with Texas.

    Maybe they just didn’t have what KC was looking for. I wonder if Texas would have surrendered Andrus as part of a deal to get Greinke ?

  175. Drivenbyjeter2 December 19th, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    ever consider that KC didnt want to trade with the Yankees?

    Same people complaining about not getting Wood back until it was said he wanted to go back to Chicago.

    And what do you mean AGAIN he failed? Crawford was OVERPAID by Boston. Lee took less to go to Philly.

    What else?

    ————————————————————————————
    Not everything is always money. There’s persuasion, communicating/ telling why this would be the team for them. If it was JUST all about the money, any Yankee fan could do Cashman’s job and get paid a couple million a year to do it.

    It’s the other stuff besides the Money that he obviously sucks at and all the other GM’s that stole the players away from the yankees are better at.

  176. West Coast Yankee Fan December 19th, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    DaSaint007 – that’s hardly an apt comparison. Different teams, different leagues, different levels of competition, different fan and management expectations.

  177. jacksquat December 19th, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    The rotation last year was:

    CC
    Hughes
    Pettitte
    Burnett
    Vazquez

    (not necessarily in that order)

    The rotation next year:

    CC
    Hughes
    Pettitte (hopefully)
    Burnett
    ?

    There’s no reason the offense shouldn’t be as good or better.

    There’s a good chance Hughes improves. CC is CC and Andy is Andy. Andy might be able to pitch more games. Burnett really couldn’t be much worse.

    So they need to replace Vazquez’ 5.32 ERA.

    I’m not seeing the huge problem that others are…

  178. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    Each year 29 GMs apparently suck.
    Only 1 apparently does his job well.

    Brainiacs.

  179. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    MTU December 19th, 2010 at 4:48 pm
    GB-

    Hope things have settled down a bit for you on the homefront.

    Sounds like Greinke may have listened to their advice.

    I’m really surprised The Royals couldn’t find a match with Texas.

    Maybe they just didn’t have what KC was looking for. I wonder if Texas would have surrendered Andrus as part of a deal to get Greinke

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Not sure Texas has the middle infielders and center fielder to move. That appeared to be their biggest needs. They had the young pitchers.

  180. ac1 December 19th, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    It’s the other stuff besides the Money that he obviously sucks at and all the other GM’s that stole the players away from the yankees are better at.

    ___

    I don’t really see what he can tell FAs that they don’t already know about NYC.

    He shows up on trades and puts the money into free agency.

    Some people just don’t want to come to NY, no matter how much work he puts into it.

  181. ac1 December 19th, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    Panic city here on the blog!
    If the Yankees don’t win the winter offseason, then they certainly can’t win the regular season.

    Guess San Fran won the offseason last year.

    ___

    Didn’t Boston win the offseason last year too?

    I thought that’s what ESPN, and everyone else told us.

  182. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    agreed ac1

  183. RS December 19th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    I will be fine with a rotation of Sabathia, Pettitte, Hughes, Burnett, and Nova if the Yankees

    1) Give Montero a legitimate shot to help the offense
    2) Acquire one more solid reliever
    3) Maximize the offense’s potential by batting Gardner leadoff (and demanding him to run!)
    4) Work hard towards a mid-season trade for a starter…this might actually be the best way to go, because what if Hughes takes a giant step forward, and Burnett pitches to a solid 3.75 ERA like he did in Toronto? You don’t want to give up Montero, Betances, Banuelo then

  184. RS December 19th, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    Don’t forget the Tigers won the offseason in ’08

  185. 108 stitches December 19th, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 19th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
    108 stitches December 19th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
    I never realized there were so many amatuer psychologists attempting to diagnose Greinke and Zambrano. A lot of wannabes have the weekend off from duty at Bellevue.

    ///yet you psychoanalysed Joba Chamberlain in a recent thread & made a lot of character assumptions about him.

    Yes I did and stand behind the facts. His career has been on a downhill slide since 2008. He is what he is otherwise he would have outpitched Phil Hughes for a starting job.

  186. Joe from Long Island December 19th, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    Wait, ESPN now gives out offseason awards, in addition to deciding who wins the regular season? Did they have the awards show yet? Darn, and I missed it….. Do they have it on DVD?

  187. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    As much as any real Yankee fan, I want my team to win every year.

    But to think that with an everyday lineup that includes future HOF’ers Jeter and Arod, as well as HOF-caliber players named Tex and Posada, complimented by the likes of experienced MLB players such as Cano, Granderson, Swisher, and Maritn, and finally rounded out by kids such as Gardner – and we can’t be competitive at least??

    Oh, and did I mention our HOF closer?

  188. Nick in SF December 19th, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    They announce the offseason awards during the ESPYs. They announce them all at once, sort of like the technical awards at the Oscars.

  189. JM December 19th, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    My friend was at the Giants game. I think he had a stroke. :) Seriously, that was pretty horrendous.

    By the way, I thought the Red Sox won the past three offseasons. Last year it was the brilliant “run prevention” strategy. The year before the acquisition of the low-cost, high upside players like Smoltz and Penny. This year, it’s just throwing a boatload of money at people. Truly a brilliant organization. With their payroll soaring they’ll have to ask the rats who live in Fenway to start paying rent.

  190. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    CC, Hughes, AND AJ, all have the capability of winning 18 games. Andy, should he return, has the capability of winning at least 15. I think Andy will return, so again, patience is appropriate here.

    Our #5 starter need be no better than last year’s #5 starting totals, or any other team’s #5 starter. It’s AJ that needs to improve, and Andy to pitch and win more games.

    Our bullpen, currently configured with Mariano, Robertson, Joba, Logan, Feliciano, and Mitre, is decent and competitive. Could we use 1 other experienced righty arm? Sure. Wood would have been nice, but he wanted to pay the Cubbies for the right to return, and he basically did. Can’t fault Cash for that.

    The Yankees just need to be competitive over the first half of the season, and make the right moves after the trade deadline or bring up some of that vaunted organizational depth and talent that he’s holding on to.

    Patience.

  191. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    There is still time for the Yankees to sign Johnny Damon!!!

  192. Joe from Long Island December 19th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    Hi, Erica – How was your birthday celebration?

  193. Nick in SF December 19th, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    Happy Birthday Erica!

  194. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    Good to see you around Erica. Happy Birthday.

    :)

  195. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    Merry Christmas to Erica from Snoopy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

  196. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    Joe from Long Island December 19th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
    Hi, Erica – How was your birthday celebration?

    ************

    So far, so good!

    Had an awesome night in the city last night. Went for dinner, then a bar where they give manicures, and then a karaoke bar where I unleashed my inner rock star. It was awesome!!!

  197. brianlopez22 December 19th, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    Bottom line is this, WE NEED to be prepared for the departures/decline of our future HOFers.

    1. Jeter is not going to be the 29 yr old Jeter.
    2. Arod is not going to hit 56 HRs.
    3. Posada is washed up. At best, we can hope for 20 HRs and 75 RBIs.
    4. This is Andy’s last year.

    We have tremendous upside on the following:

    Martin is NOT the answer, Montero is a monster who deserves his shot.
    Hughes has only gotten better each year, and we should expect better ERA and WHIP.
    The Killer B’s (Betances and Banuelos need to at least be apart of the MLB team in July and August, so they can see major league hitting, to get them prepared)
    Ivan Nova is a legit 5th starter. The only problem I see, is he’s right handed and Boston is severely left handed)

    We can not trade any of our blue chippers for anything less than Josh Johnson. At this point, we would have to wait until 2012′s FA class to get anything worthwhile in Free Agency.

    Trading our blue chippers is a severe mistake with the age of this team.

  198. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    And a Happy Birthday to Erica from me

  199. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    Erica-

    “then a karaoke bar where I unleashed my inner rock star.”

    Oh my, I hope there wasn’t too much broken glass ?

  200. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    I have a feeling that it’s not only some fans, but some player agents, and opposing GMs that are peeved at the New Yankee Way.

    No more excessive FA offers when a player is not in his prime.
    No more knee-jerk trades to fill holes deemed ‘imperative’, where we can be held over a barrel.
    No more forcing the Yankees to give up the farm for marginal players with short-term contracts remaining. You know, the poor system that everyone laughed at, but now seemingly everyone wants to ravish.

    What the heck is going on?
    Fiscal responsibility?
    Organizational preservation?
    Loading up on key position players like Catcher and Pitcher?

    Will be interesting to follow the progression of these moves and others, as the Yankees begin to shed massive contracts and start to slot in their young players instead.

    Oh, folks will hate the Yankee, but it won’t be for overspending anymore.
    That’s going to be a bitter pill for some to swallow – and it starts this season.

  201. Mike Ri December 19th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    Brianlopez.. this is the Yankees . . .We don’t worry about the future . .or preparing for the future . . We win now !!.. . WE WORRY ABOUT NOW .. . and right now OUR Pitching Staff SUCKS even with a forty year old Pettite

  202. Tom in N.J. December 19th, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    Erica, welcome to 30 :razz:

    Happy birthday! :grin:

  203. RhapsodyInBlue December 19th, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    Knicks are close but could use Carmello to compete with the big teams.

  204. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
    Merry Christmas to Erica from Snoopy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related

    ************

    I LOVE IT!!! Thank you.

  205. Joe from Long Island December 19th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    Erica – and what songs did you sing?

  206. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    Thank you Mr Nick in SF :-)

    Thank you MTU :-)

    Thank you Tom in NJ :-)

  207. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    Joe from Long Island December 19th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
    Erica – and what songs did you sing?

    **************

    Well… solo I did “Life is a Highway” and “Eye of the Tiger” but there were lots of people in the bar and there was no proper stage and two microphones. There was another really fun group hanging out there too. So we all kind of just wound up singing together. Although, my friends and I did a version of “Girls Just Wanna Have Fun” that absolutely brought the house down

  208. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    Frankie Valli sings to Erica

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3H5-s7MSUw

  209. Joe from Long Island December 19th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    my friends and I did a version of ?Girls Just Wanna Have Fun? that absolutely brought the house down

    I BET it did! :)

    Have you booked any more gigs?

  210. comet December 19th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    Erica Happy Birthday! You are now officially a member of the “29 Club”.

  211. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    Happy Birthday Erica!
    Sounds like you had a blast!

    You go gurl!

  212. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    Posada is washed up. At best, we can hope for 20 HRs and 75 RBIs
    —————————————-

    If that’s washed up, I’ll take it!

    Considering that he won’t have the wear and tear from catching on a regular basis, I’m betting that he probably exceeds those numbers.

  213. comet December 19th, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    Zambrano? Why? Because he’s a warm body? Pitching in the NL is NOT like pitching in the AL East. Anyone here remember Vasquez from 2010? He didn’t have velocity and he got hammered again and again and again. So why would we pay Zambrano $19 million to have the same happen to him. Panic is in the air and all over this blog. I’ll take Mitre over Zambrano.

  214. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    “Why did you ruin a perfectly good set of clubs ? Why didn’t you just toss the guy in instead ?”

    mtu-

    he was in the middle of hitting another shot so i didn’t want to disturb him.

    plus it didn’t ruin the clubs, it just gave them a good cleaning :)

  215. upstate kate December 19th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    guess I took a baking break at just the right time to wish Erica a very HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!

  216. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    GB7-

    Frankie Valli is almost as good as this one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DySnlAF0cEc

  217. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    upstate kate December 19th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
    guess I took a baking break at just the right time to wish Erica a very HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!

    **************

    Thank you!

    But you didn’t have to bake me a cake!

  218. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
    “Why did you ruin a perfectly good set of clubs ? Why didn’t you just toss the guy in instead ?”

    mtu-

    he was in the middle of hitting another shot so i didn’t want to disturb him.

    plus it didn’t ruin the clubs, it just gave them a good cleaning

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    That and the golfer’s caddy, Rocco was standing there.

  219. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    Joe from Long Island December 19th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
    my friends and I did a version of ?Girls Just Wanna Have Fun? that absolutely brought the house down

    I BET it did!

    Have you booked any more gigs?

    *****************

    Haha. No. Although, I was a HIT!

  220. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    Thank you Comet :-)

    Thank you DaSaint007 :-)

  221. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    Randy-

    Glad to hear the clubs weren’t ruined.

    The Man could always be replaced.

  222. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    Sorry about that Erica. What in the Wide World Of Sports was i thinking?

  223. upstate kate December 19th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    actually Erica I just finished making a batch of Bishop’s Bread, which has choc chips, coconut, marashino cherries and pecans…I will send some your way thru the blog :)

  224. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    Kate-

    I want some too.

    :waives his hands:

    :)

  225. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 5:45 pm
    Sorry about that Erica. What in the Wide World Of Sports was i thinking?

    *********

    Its cool. Its the thought that counts!

  226. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    upstate kate December 19th, 2010 at 5:47 pm
    actually Erica I just finished making a batch of Bishop’s Bread, which has choc chips, coconut, marashino cherries and pecans…I will send some your way thru the blog

    *********

    Appreciated!

  227. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    Mr. Ensberg it appears you are forgiven.

  228. Pat M. December 19th, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    Happy Birthday Erica, best wishes, Stevie Nicks ….

  229. comet December 19th, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Me too Kate, sounds delicious!

  230. Ed H. December 19th, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    Happy birthday, Erica!

    Zambrano seems very unlikely. Cashman has been very consistent in only going for “character guys” who will enhance the clubhouse, as well as the “professional” image of the NY Yankees. With Zambrano’s issues on the field as well as off of it, I think that there’s no chance that the Yanks bite.

  231. J. Alfred Prufrock December 19th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Yes I did and stand behind the facts. His career has been on a downhill slide since 2008. He is what he is otherwise he would have outpitched Phil Hughes for a starting job.

    ////the “facts” are something murky to date.even more evanescent are the character assumptions you and others have leapt to here: they remain assumptions.

  232. upstate kate December 19th, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    on its way Comet and MTU..what did Mr Ensburg do to be forgivin for?

    Not a fan of Zambrano

  233. J. Alfred Prufrock December 19th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    helluva fake.

  234. comet December 19th, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    Gold is up $2.70 in early overnight trading.

    Thanks, Kate!

  235. DaSaint007 December 19th, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    Wondering if Cashman takes another run at Jose Veras as an option/addition to Jon Rauch?

    High 10.1 SO/9
    3.75 ERA?

  236. Doreen December 19th, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    Erica -

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

    Oh, man, I’ve been so busy today I forgot – even after telling myself not to!!!!

    Happy Birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday, Dear Erica, happy birthday to you!!!!

  237. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    Kate-

    Poor joke. Not worth explaining. Sometimes I just speak in obtuse.

    Pay it no mind.

    :)

  238. brianlopez22 December 19th, 2010 at 6:23 pm

    “Brianlopez.. this is the Yankees . . .We don’t worry about the future . .or preparing for the future . . We win now !!.. . WE WORRY ABOUT NOW .. . and right now OUR Pitching Staff SUCKS even with a forty year old Pettite

    Really? Get over yourself. Cliff Lee was the ONLY move to make and he chose Philly. Now, you can’t ruin the next 10 years because you want to win now. No trade can help us win now, other than King Felix, Tim Lincecum, or Josh Johnson.

    As many people pointed out, thats not going to happen.

    Zambrano? sucks! Ivan Nova is better now and over the next 10 years than Zambrano, so just stop.

    The reason we won 5 championships over the last 15 years is because we depended on our future.
    - We didn’t trade Mariano for some washed up SS.
    - We let Jeter start as a 22 yr old. (ehm, ehm Jesus Montero)
    - We didn’t trade Posada and Pettite for some D-rated, scrubby pitcher because our pitching staff sucked.

    Take a lesson from history and get a grip.

  239. ray from maine December 19th, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    Hey GB. I found the perfect Christmas gift for you. Local sports store has a thing where you can make toast with the Yankees logo on it. I figured since the Yankees will be toast this year anyways it might be a nice gift for you! :)

    Just kidding guys. Don’t get all excited. Yes, I am a Sox fan but I think things will be very close this year between the Sox and the Yankees. Ya, the Sox picked up some nice players but also lost some key players in Martinez and Beltre.

    I think the Sox still have a huge hole at the catcher position, and right off the top of my head I would say the Yankees have the edge at third base, shortshop, and second base and other positions. Tex is a great first baseman but Gonzalez looks good too.

    In any case I look forward to the season.

  240. Joe from Long Island December 19th, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    Jets need to get the running game going.

  241. upstate kate December 19th, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    Ray Sox fan
    have you returned from your travels?

  242. ray from maine December 19th, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    Hi Kate. I returned from Alaska on October 1st. How have you been?

  243. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    ray from maine December 19th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
    Hey GB. I found the perfect Christmas gift for you. Local sports store has a thing where you can make toast with the Yankees logo on it. I figured since the Yankees will be toast this year anyways it might be a nice gift for you!

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    LMAO. Damned. you’re cold hearted, Ray. You guys win the winter title and you think you’re God’s gift to baseball.

    How are you and the (sox fan) family? A Merry Christmas in case I don’t see you here, Ray. Glad to see you back.

  244. J. Alfred Prufrock December 19th, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    LT has had his moments today.

  245. JWeav December 19th, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    Who would win in a fight between Jeter and Mariano?

  246. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    Doreen December 19th, 2010 at 6:15 pm
    Erica -

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

    Oh, man, I’ve been so busy today I forgot – even after telling myself not to!!!!

    Happy Birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday, Dear Erica, happy birthday to you!!!!

    **********

    Thanks Doreen!

    You sang even more beautifully than Ernie!

  247. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    Pat M. December 19th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
    Happy Birthday Erica, best wishes, Stevie Nicks ….

    **********

    Thanks Pat-

    I totally know that Stevie is thinking of me today!

  248. J. Alfred Prufrock December 19th, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    Steelers holding on every play all afternoon.

  249. Mike Ri December 19th, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    Brianlopez .. . .Pleas save it . .

    Don’t make the core four into the A Team . .ok . .alot of other players helped this team win .. either via trade or free agent signing

    David Justice . Jimmey Key , David Cone , Paul O Neil , Chuck Knoblach , Roger Clemens. David Wells ,

    Grant it . .Lee was the prize. .. . But we have an average at best pitching staff .. Cashman should have had a plan B. . . if his plan B is too sit on his a– and feed us the we’re going with the KIDS BS .. . FINE .. ” hey we are getting younger .. the future looks bright , . .

    Please Save that BS for someone else …. (mostly the prospect huggers on this blog) and go out . be creative and get me a stinking pitcher

  250. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    Thanks Ed H

  251. Pat M. December 19th, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Erica….I’m surprised that you didn’t sing one of her songs…..I heard her rendition of ” Silent Night “…….My voice still skips a bit when I hear her voice ……

  252. rb from LI December 19th, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    Happy Birthday, Erica!

    Haven’t been posting, but always checking in. You’ve been missed – glad to see you popping in again.

  253. comet December 19th, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    Gold now up $4.40/oz.

  254. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    Comet-

    Stay out of the Superstitions or you’ll never live to enjoy it.

  255. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    MTU is more interested in the price of coal, Comet. He figures to make a haul this Christmas.

  256. comet December 19th, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    MTU I’m to far awa,y ensconced in snow, to even think of the Superstitions. Fear not.
    I’ve also concluded that I’m to old and battered to take up the cudgel of looking for the Lost Dutchman’s mine. If only I were 40 years younger! The find would be mine.

    Gold now slipping back a bit to up $3.80.

    http://www.kitco.com/index.html

  257. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    Re: Felix Hernandez

    Even though it would never happen, how much would you be willing to give up for him?

    The Mariners roster has holes all over it. They need hitters, fielders, a rotation and a lineup who won’t finish dead last in every statistical category. They need everything.

    My proposal:

    Phil Hughes-sp
    Jesus Montero-c/dh
    Dellin Betances-sp
    Ivan Nova-sp
    Brandon Laird-3b
    Eduardo Nunez-ss
    David Adams-2b

  258. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    Pat M. December 19th, 2010 at 6:41 pm
    Erica….I’m surprised that you didn’t sing one of her songs…..I heard her rendition of ” Silent Night “…….My voice still skips a bit when I hear her voice ……

    *************

    I love her version of Silent Night. I wish it got played more often

    I considered doing a Stevie song, but not a lot of people know her songs :-(

  259. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    rb from LI December 19th, 2010 at 6:42 pm
    Happy Birthday, Erica!

    Haven’t been posting, but always checking in. You’ve been missed – glad to see you popping in again.

    ***********

    Thanks rb. It’s nice to be back!

  260. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    GB-

    I’ll make sure you’re first on my list.

    Comet-

    I was only kidding but the Superstitions do have a nasty reputation for people entering and never being seen again.

    “Treasure of Sierra Madre” is one of my favorite movies, and I was really just playin’ off that.

    :)

  261. comet December 19th, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    MTU I not kidding about the Superstitions. From what I’ve read death is a frequent visitor there.

    You’ll be happy to know that Coal prices are on the rise as well. Coal trades by the ton though so you’ll need an especially impressive haul for Christmas to do well. Perhaps you and GB can combine your resources. Ask for metallurgical coal though. It’s worth more.

  262. comet December 19th, 2010 at 7:03 pm

    Home » US Market » Market Outlook, 2011 Predictions

    2011: The Year of Trading Dangerously
    7 comments | December 17, 2010
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    Michael Shulman 1083
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    Market indices around the world continue to climb based on forecasts for economic growth in 2011 that are based on historical trends, philosophy, optimism, need – but not an agnostic view of real world date. Simply put, without an upturn in housing in the US, there can be no meaningful upturn in employment and with an upturn in employment there will be no meaningful economic growth. End of story.

    First, and Foremost, Housing:

    The number of new homes being built is at catastrophically low numbers, an annual run rate of less than 300,000 homes per year. In the gold old days – pre Lehman (LEHMQ.PK) – a run rate of one million residential units was a bottom.

    The number of homes in inventory is growing compared to the annual sales rate, which is at historic lows, and this is growing due to foreclosures. Foreclosures will begin to accelerate again late in Q2, as home prices fall, the banks give up on any spring revival, option ARMs begin to reset en masse, and the number of people near or under water on their mortgage tops 30% (that number is now 27.5%).

    Foreclosures will bloat inventory, put more pressure on home prices, and the cycle will continue until the foreclosure pipeline – late payments turning into defaults turning into foreclosures turning into more homes in inventory turning into sales – is back to historic norms. A quick look at the data puts this in 2014/2015. Yes, four to five years, if the economy is lucky.

    Bloated inventory means radically reduced home building at lower prices and margins. And fewer workers putting up dry wall.

    Is Housing That Important to Employment?

    Based on my and other calculations, residential construction contributed 40% of all new jobs in the period 2002-2007. This excludes the number of undocumented workers not found in official statistics. While this number may seem high, it makes senses – there was an unprecedented housing boom, China’s massive wipeout of low to medium skill manufacturing around the globe pushed many workers out of this sector and into construction, either residential or commercial.

    The indirect impacts of new home construction are enormous. Not just the dry wall and lumber and roofing material suppliers – carpet makers, furniture manufacturers and stores and so on. Housing – new housing – was the driver of a huge expansion of the residential goods supply chain that is now sputtering.

    I first noticed the crash in housing as the amount of money being transferred out of the country, a lot of it by undocumented or low skill workers in construction, began to slow. This was more than a year before official statistics began to show slowdowns on construction employment. This means the actual job loss – and loss of spending power in the economy – was greater than most analysts have estimated and will take longer to rebuild.

    Unemployment in the real world is north of 22%. This includes out of work, part timers wanting to work full time, the discouraged and not looking right now and work force dropouts who would work if it was easy to find a job, the latter category to included in government stats. That is a big number.

    The country needs to add, depending on your favorite economist, roughly 200,000 jobs a month to keep pace with demographic changes. To replace the jobs lost we need to double that rate for 3-4 years – and that would require economic growth 4.5% or better.

    What About Recent Increases in Consumer Spending?

    What increases? According to a fascinating analysis by Durban Capital, more than 60% of the growth in consumer spending this year went to one company – Apple (AAPL). No kidding, check out the interview on CNBC.

    The government is funny about creating numbers and considers healthcare spending as “consumer spending.” Again, no kidding.

    Take out Apple and healthcare and you really have no increase in consumer spending – maybe a decrease.

    A Jobless Recovery? It Does Not Exist

    Recovery – or what some economists are calling a recovery – is a wonderful word for a headline. We all want patients to recover; we wall want to recover the wedding ring we left in the hotel room; we all want to recover the passion of young love. The word is dangerous.

    Recovery, in reality, means moderate to strong economic growth. This growth in the US is dependent on national income that in turn drives consumer spending. Consumer spending is dependent on national income and credit – and, a more amorphous metric consumer confidence. Consumer confidence is built on consumer wealth, real and forecast, and consumer attitudes about their economic future.

    National income is generated by the number of people working times the average hourly wage times the average work week. The drop in the work force in the past three years has been the sharpest since the end of World War II – the unemployed, the retired, the “disabled,” the “despair” dropouts. The work week is shorter than it was three years ago and average hourly wages after healthcare costs and taxes are lower than three years ago.

    Credit continues to contract, down 6% in recent Federal Reserve data, year over year. One fourth of Americans have a credit score low enough to prevent them from borrowing enough money to buy a hot dog. Home equity lines have vanished – and check the data, the entire growth on consumer spending in the period 2004-2007 equals the amount of money drawn down on home equity lines in the same period of time.

    Consumers have lost enormous amounts of wealth and continue to do so as their core asset – their home – falls in value. Between one fourth and one third of consumer accumulated wealth in real estate and equities is gone. This has kept consumer confidence low.

    We are now in the New Frugal – even well of consumers are being tighter with their purchases. Credit card transactions show revenue growth but not transaction growth.

    What About Stimulus?

    The Bush tax cut extensions essentially head off a rise in taxes and provide some stimulus – maybe $200 billion. That is it.

    The Feds, the states, the localities – they are all broke. No more stimuli until the Republicans panic before the 2012 elections.

    The Fed is using QE not to stimulate the economy – that is Bernanke’s excuse – but to continue the process of the healing of the banks. Again, be objective, Apply 2007 accounting standards – market to market accounting for assets, adjustment of underlying collateral values for commercial real estate mortgages – and big banks, are close to insolvency, if not there. At current rates of profit growth, we have another 4-5 years before they have the right capital base to return to 2007 accounting standards.

    That means no stimulus from a sudden splurge in bank lending. They are building back their capital base not just to compensate for losses on their balance sheet but to meet new capital standards coming into place in the next few years.

    What About Animal Spirits?

    They do exist, especially in the US. I was in New York this week and the animals that work on Wall Street are keeping the city humming. I spent two marvelous lunch hours at Eataly, the new all Italian food emporium and there I found both hope and despair. I chatted up the young chef in training at the pasta restaurant and bar – incredible fusilli with a three-meat ragu, served al dente – new job, new restaurant, great business. I was sitting next two a man enjoying his pasta with white truffles and turns out he was a retiree from the MTA, the folks who run the subways and buses in the New York area. He was younger than I am, no longer works, can afford pasta with white truffles, and because of insane pensions such as his a close family member of mine lost his job as a bus mechanic, the MTA is now using operating expense money for maintenance to pay pensions.

    Animal spirits also exist in tech land – but tech is not a big employment driver outside of the Bay area.

    Animal spirits also exist among the general population but they are getting no support from the baking system. One of my sons is selling rugby T-shirts, some profits to the team, some to him and a partner. He used his savings account to get started. The laid off bus mechanic has a thriving cat sitting and care business. – again, no credit required. Men like Mario Batali can raise money to build Eataly; a mythical Mario Schwartz wanted would not be able to the same for deli food. A friend who has been building Wal-Marts for more than a decade and has a contract to build another one went to his bank of two decades and got turned down for a loan, the contract from Wal-Mart in hand.

    What Does This Mean for Traders?

    The “recovery” is going to stall in Q2. Look for a double dip in the second half of the year. Maybe a good time to buy puts on the S+P.

    Growth in corporate profits will stall at the same time, not just from a slowing economy but even more of a slowdown in the EU – outside of Germany, they can always sell more centrifuges to Iran – and a rising dollar. The play here may be to to buy long term puts on the FXE, the ETF for the euro and long term calls on the UUP, the ETF for the dollar.

    Bernanke will continue QE and there is a 50/50 chance we see a QE III. That will put more float in the boat we call the stock market – but not the economy or corporate profits. Once the crazy monetarists reading the headlies and not the textbooks throw in the towel and realize we are suffering from deflation (if you include asset prices) and not inflation, Treausires will fall again and the winners are gold and silver– the GLD and the SLV.

    Stocks dependent on real world valuations based on real world profits will stall and take a hit if they do not raise dividends. If they raise dividends, they will probably be fine, short term.Great, long term shorts are those companies paying out more in dividends than they are generating in profits. They are easy to find, take a look at an otherwise terrific company, Paychex (PAYX) and what they are paying out to shareholders, more than 4%. Another potential villain is Pfixer (PFE) — Lipitor’s patents are expiring, that is a $10 billion dollar plus drug, generics will tourn that into a $2-$3 billion dollar drug in 2012/2013, no way they can pay out the dividend they are using to prop up their share price.

    Bottom line: the reality of the world economy will be worse than most forecast, will push Bernanke to expand his balance sheet as much as he can and will make long term trading – something that used to be called investing – problematic in 2011.

    Disclosure: No positions

  263. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 7:03 pm

    Comet-

    I’m selling all my coal to China.

    And all my tea bags.

    ;)

  264. Chuck58 December 19th, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    Hey, Erica! Happy Birthday!!
    Glad yer back postin’ regularly :-)

  265. ac1 December 19th, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    Why do people keep adding Phil Hughes in trade proposals for Felix? That doesn’t help our pitching situation at all. We need MORE pitching, not to give up a starter for another starter.

  266. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    Thanks Chuck58 :-)

  267. Erica in NY December 19th, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    Heading out to dinner.

    Thanks for the birthday wishes everyone!!

    Catch you later :-)

  268. brianlopez22 December 19th, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    Mike Ri….

    If anyone needs to save it, is you.
    I’ll say it again, Get Over Yourself.
    I’m not saying hug and save every prospect, but don’t trade them for some ridiculous pitcher like Zambrano.

    C-dummy (Cashman) should had many plans but he didn’t.
    Don’t over-react and get C- talent and expect miracles. There are only a few prizes out there and we need to ONLY go after those prizes.

    Who do want? Pavano, Derek Lowe, Carlos Zambrano? LOL…
    The White Sox are looking to compete now, so Buerhle, Peavy, and Edwin Jackson are not options right now. So guess what? You’re stuck with what you have.

    Ivan Nova has showed he can pitch at this level and has a power arm, which is what we need.

    Rothschild got this job because he, specifically, said he can fix AJ. So we’ll see.

    Stop being so short sided!!!!

  269. brianlopez22 December 19th, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    short sighted. Sorry auto-correction software chose the wrong phrase.

  270. Mike Ri December 19th, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    Brianlopez22

    I guess we can agree to disagree.

    Im not trying to be an a## .. . im just getting a little impatient ..

  271. Joe from Long Island December 19th, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    Well, at least the Jets can beat a team from Pennsylvania today. Nice win, Gang Green.

    Time for dinner. Later guys.

  272. NYYROC December 19th, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    It’s always best to aim high, try to get the best SP possible. But sometimes they just aren’t available. Cashman needs to find value, like he did with Swisher, like the NYY did in the past with guys like Chambliss, Figueroa, Key and Brosius. Maybe that means Carmona, Wandy R. an A’s pitcher etc.
    He also either needs to give the young guys a chance or not be afraid to trade them. They aren’t all going to pan out. So play ‘em or trade ‘em.

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