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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Potential catching logjam in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 19, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

ph_519222ph_524968Now that Russell Martin is on the roster, it’s likely both Jesus Montero and Austin Romine will open the season the minor leagues. In theory, each should each be in Triple-A, but that’s a logjam the Yankees don’t want.

“They need to catch, so that’s something we’ll deal with if we get there,” vice president of baseball operations Mark Newman said. “I wouldn’t want them to split right now.”

Montero and Romine split catching duties in the lower levels, but at this point, both need to get used to catching every day. They also need repetition behind the plate so that they improve defensively.

Obviously the Yankees won’t set anything in stone right now, but the arrival of Martin could force Romine back to Trenton, where last season he hit .268 with a second half that was worse than his first. I’m sure he’d rather move forward, but repeating the level might not be a waste of time.

ph_477186• So far so good with Brandon Laird’s work in the outfield. Newman said the Yankees are convinced he can play the corners. Left field at Yankee Stadium might be a little spacious for him, but they think he could play right field in the Bronx, and he could play left in most parks. “He’s going to do well enough out there that he’s going to be an option,” Newman said. The Yankees still think Laird is better defensively at first and third, but he could be a legitimate four-corners option as soon as 2011.

• For whatever it’s worth — and it might not be worth much — I was impressed with Laird’s glove when I saw him in spring training. Much better than I was expecting. He made some pretty nice plays at third.

• If the Yankees feel the need to move one of their prospect starting pitchers into the Major League bullpen next season, they can make that adjustment quickly. There’s no need to make that switch out of spring training. “When they get to Triple-A, they don’t need a full year doing that,” Newman said. “They need a month or two of adjustment. They still need innings. You don’t want to limit innings by putting them prematurely in the bullpen.”

• Pretty standard situation for all of the players so far invited to camp on minor league deals. Neal Cotts is a slight exception because of his considerable big league experience and the fact he’s coming back from injury. “It’s a rehab deal with him,” Newman said.

• Romulo Sanchez is out of options. He’ll need to make the big league roster or pass through waivers this spring. I believe — though I forgot to ask — that Sanchez has been designated for assignment once before, meaning even if he clears, he could opt for free agency rather than accept a minor league assignment.

• Last month the International League transactions listed Matt DeSalvo having been assigned to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. It’s not true. The Yankees have not re-signed him.

• One lower-level note: Catching prospect J.R. Murphy will continue to get the bulk of his time behind the plate, but he’ll also see time at third base and right field next season. He didn’t hit much last season, but the Yankees believe in his bat and believe he’s athletic enough to play different positions. They haven’t decided whether he’ll be in Charleston or Tampa next year.

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337 Responses to “Potential catching logjam in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre”

  1. Carlo December 19th, 2010 at 9:18 am

    Not busting your chops Chad, but I feel I have enough to worry about with respect to the Yanks…..I simply can’t add SWB catching situation to my list. Hahaha.

  2. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 9:19 am

    GB-

    You dream is comin’ true. Verstatility amongst the minor leaguers.

    :)

  3. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 9:20 am

    Romine looks like he just got out of jail in that shot.

    :)

  4. Yankee Trader December 19th, 2010 at 9:22 am

    What do you think of lefty Wandy Rodriguez ERA 3.60, only got 3.75 run support. Made 5M and is arb eligible. If the Astros want to unload salary they can also add Brandon Lyon’s remaining two years.

    Brandon Lyon rhp
    3 years/$15M (2010-12)

    3 years/$15M (2010-12)
    signed by Houston as a free agent 12/11/09
    10:$4.25M, 11:$5.25M, 12:$5.5M

    For good measure throw in Jeff Keppinger.

    Deal or No Deal??

  5. Carlo December 19th, 2010 at 9:24 am

    YT – I haven’t seen much of him (Wandy). What does he have in his arsenal?

  6. Yankee Trader December 19th, 2010 at 9:25 am

    Bret-

    I’m not sure the Yankees would have won the WS with Lee against the Giants. The offense was just not producing.

  7. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 9:26 am

    Carlo-

    A magic wandy.

    pass.

  8. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 9:27 am

    Yankee Trader,

    And Cashman did nothing to improve the offense.

  9. Chip December 19th, 2010 at 9:32 am

    Once agaiin – a team no one mentions is the one that actually gets the deal done.

    Good for the Brewers – a rotation of Greinke, Gallardo, Marcum, Wolf, and Parra will be pretty significant in the NL Central.

    For those who think the Yankees could have matched the talent that went to KC from Milwaukee – no, they couldn’t.

    Escobar is a tremendous young player who hasn’t even scratched the surface of what he’s going to be, making no money, playing a premium position and doing it at a high level in the majors – in other words – he’s way way better than Brett Gardner. And Cain is essentially their Jesus Montero, but there’s no question that Cain can play CF.

    As for where the Yankees go from here:

    I still say that they target a mid rotation guy rather than a potential top of the rotation guy – someone in the Kyle Davies/Brett Myers ilk who can give them 200 innings from the 4 or 5 spot in the rotation.

    On another note – I wouldn’t sleep on Romulo Sanchez coming in as the 8th inning guy. I didn’t realize he was out of options until Chad posted it – but given that, and the Yankees lack of urgency in getting a power arm for the back of the pen – I think Sanchez will be given a chance to compete for that role and I believe he can grab it.

  10. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 9:34 am

    excellent.

    no more greinke to the yankees talk .

    the blog wasn’t operating on all it’s neurons on it’s greinke the past 24 hours.

  11. Yankee Trader December 19th, 2010 at 9:35 am

    Carlo- After looking at fangraphs on Wandy I’m not sure he’d be a good fit.

    Bret-If these Yankees put up their usual numbers, the offense should be better.-Teixera from the left side; A-Rod against lefties; Jeter against righties; more improvement from Granderson; same for Posada; Gardner bunts for hits and becomes leadoff hitter. Hopefully Montero sticks and wows!!

  12. Chip December 19th, 2010 at 9:35 am

    Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 9:27 am
    Yankee Trader,

    And Cashman did nothing to improve the offense.

    —————-

    Sure he did – he brought in Martin which will allow Jorge to DH which will keep him healthier and more productive during the season.

  13. Crawdaddy December 19th, 2010 at 9:35 am

    I’m glad the Brewers overpaid for Greinke instead of the Yankees.

  14. BoJo December 19th, 2010 at 9:36 am

    The NL All Star dominance is about to start again. The pitchers they have will be shutting down the AL teams for the next few years and claiming home field WS advantage.

    Halladay, Lee, Lincecum, Josh Johnson, Cain, Greinke, Strasberg (in 2012), etc….

  15. Giuseppe Franco December 19th, 2010 at 9:37 am

    # Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 8:52 am

    Don’t worry Guiseppe Franco, there is nothing to talk about now except Feliciano and Hairston. Salivate over that.

    ———-

    That’s what happens when reality has no place in your fantasyland.

    Coming up with a new trade target every week is just a big waste of time.

  16. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Maine,

    This game of chicken Cashman has been playing doesn’t seem to be working either. Who is he waiting out? Who does he have up against the wall? What’s the reward in eternally refusing to overpay a little for every player to the point where all impact players are off the table?

  17. Doreen December 19th, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Lance Berkman? Austin Kearns?

    They may have not worked out, but don’t say Cashman did nothing. Those were ML players who were brought in as an upgrade to the revolving door of minor league call-ups. And, Berkman did do a good job, eventually, and into the playoffs. When Berkman was not producing, Kearns did. They just didn’t do it together.

    I know it’s the thing to do to bash Cashman. But he had an offensive powerhouse of a team mired in injury and down years.

    And still, two wins away from playing in the WS.

  18. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 9:39 am

    Guiseppe Franco,

    Where did that 24/7 Cliff Lee man-crush get you?

    Waste of time indeed…

  19. Doreen December 19th, 2010 at 9:40 am

    Bret

    You consistently seem to forget that there are two sides that have to want to do a deal.

    Overypaying doesn’t guarantee success, either.

  20. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 9:40 am

    I think that it’s Cervelli that will split the catching duties in Scranton with Romine, unless one of them is traded. As long as Montero has shown improvement with his defense during ST and hits there’s no reason for him not open in NY.

  21. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 9:41 am

    Seriously Guiseppe,

    What happened to your Cliff Lee wet dream??

    You woke up!

    :lol:

  22. upstate kate December 19th, 2010 at 9:42 am

    who did Cashman not overpay for that the Yankees wanted?
    Lee? He didn’t want to come.
    Crawford? He was paid way too much for way too long.
    I still think he will surprise us w/ a big trade…personally I am still hoping for Garza

  23. BoJo December 19th, 2010 at 9:42 am

    GB–
    I would prefer to see Montero get more plate time in AAA then…too soon to have him riding the bench…Bring him up in June.

  24. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 9:43 am

    Doreen,

    Everyone is overpaying for impact players.

    If you never overpay for one, you’ll never get one and nothing happens, no improvements are made while the competition catapults ahead.

    It’s as if the league saw a pattern with Cashman’s ultraconservative approach over the years and collectively pounced, overpaid for impact players, changed the landscape of baseball and left Cashman holding the bag, hugging his prospects.

    2 offseasons in a row with little change.

    Seriously?

  25. blake December 19th, 2010 at 9:43 am

    If Romine isn’t traded then I’d start him out at Trenton and then move him up if/When Montero gets called up to NY.

    Greinke didn’t have a say in this one but it does seem that many of the top pitchers have decided that they “like the NL style of play better”….wonder why that could be ;)

  26. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 9:43 am

    Kate-

    Nice thought but IMO the Rays would not be likely to trade with their rivals.

    Cast another net out like Cashman.

  27. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 19th, 2010 at 9:44 am

    Hit and run –

    “The Red Sox continue to build, signing reliever Dan Wheeler to help in their bullpen. Wheeler, Bobby Jenks and Daniel Bard give Boston some right-handed depth leading into the ninth inning.”

    Did someone tell Theo this is his last year on earth? Holy moly. Seriously, I liked it a lot better when the Sux had no reliable arms in their pen…

  28. Giuseppe Franco December 19th, 2010 at 9:44 am

    # Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 9:39 am

    Guiseppe Franco,

    Where did that 24/7 Cliff Lee man-crush get you?

    Waste of time indeed…

    ———

    Yeah, I wanted Lee. Didn’t happen. Oh well. I don’t dwell on it. The Yanks will move on.

    At least Lee was a viable target that the Yankees clearly wanted.

    The offseason isn’t over yet. I know patience isn’t in your vocabulary. Maybe you should skip watching Yankee baseball this season.

  29. Yankee Trader December 19th, 2010 at 9:44 am

    Bret-

    The Steinbrenner brothers are not operating the Yankees like their father.

    Where’s the 2011 salary up to now?

    144M to start + 10M arb eligible and raises due [estimate] + 30M for Jeter/ Rivera + 4M for Martin = 188M. Let’s say Pettitte comes back at a reasonable 13M, thats 201M. What’s the final number for payroll. That’s the question?

  30. MaineYankee December 19th, 2010 at 9:45 am

    Bret

    All your questions are based on how you perceive things, not on what is taking place.

    You have no idea what he is doing or planning.

    Seeing no action doesn’t mean none is being taken

  31. pat December 19th, 2010 at 9:46 am

    JPosnanski No judgment yet, way too early, must study this thing seriously. But early gut is I really don’t like this Greinke deal. 3 minutes ago via web

  32. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 9:46 am

    Montero could get his at bats in NY. The instruction that he gets with his defense would be considerably more valuable. He’d get 50-60 games behind the plate, 10-15 games at DH, plus late inning pinch hits.

  33. blake December 19th, 2010 at 9:47 am

    GB,
    That’s what I would hope but would Montero get enough playing time….assuming Martin is going to get the bulk of the innings behind the plate.? I would rather him play every day in Scranton at least to start the season than play a couple times a week in NY. This is all projection at this point. Jason Heyward wasn’t necessarily supposed to open the year with the Braves last year either but he forced their hand in spring training…..Montero could do the same. Needless to say, I like their catching situation in the organization right now….they have a bunch of guys that can hit and now they have a 27 year old guy with a lot of upside that can throw people out.

  34. comet December 19th, 2010 at 9:47 am

    Greinke a Brewer. MLBTR!

  35. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 9:47 am

    Guiseppe,

    Maybe watch where you point your gun?

    This board spent 99% of the off season agonizing over Lee and now you’re fixed on the 1% of posts devoted to alternative possibilities.

    So don’t tell me what’s a waste of time and what is not.

    You’re a guesser too. And a bad one. Just like me.

    Suck it up man.

  36. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 9:47 am

    “Sure he did – he brought in Martin which will allow Jorge to DH which will keep him healthier and more productive during the season.”

    i think martin is one of the key variables for 2011.not only will posada have a better chance to be healthy and be a better hitter, but martin himself could come back to be more like the hitter he was two years ago.

    i’d say it’s 50/50 if martin makes a comeback to the offensive player he was. he was catching way too much with the dodgers. martin should benefit offensively from catching less games. if martin pulls a swisher the yankees that will be a big plus for the offense.

  37. austinmac December 19th, 2010 at 9:47 am

    We now have gone beyond, I believe, the time Pettitte has previously indicated he will play. The Yankees cannot hold themselves hostage to his decision. He well may retire. That will be an ugly day in Yankeeland.

    MTU, that will leave 2 1/2 starters, with Burnett getting the lower value. How is your arm feeling? I suggest you start long tossing.

  38. upstate kate December 19th, 2010 at 9:48 am

    MTU
    yeah I know it is unlikely, but there have been crazier trades suggested!

  39. comet December 19th, 2010 at 9:49 am

    Morning Kate, MTU and GB7

  40. blake December 19th, 2010 at 9:49 am

    Greinke should be happier with the Brewers than with the Royals. They are a better team and more likely to compete for their division…plus his numbers should improve in the NL and set him up nicely for a big pay day in a couple years.

  41. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Bret’s more interested in bragging about getting a trade right (for a change) than NYYs getting the right trade.

  42. Giuseppe Franco December 19th, 2010 at 9:52 am

    # MaineYankee December 19th, 2010 at 9:45 am

    Bret

    All your questions are based on how you perceive things, not on what is taking place.

    You have no idea what he is doing or planning.

    Seeing no action doesn’t mean none is being taken

    ———-

    Exactly. That’s why Bret and WCYF always whine about Cashman.

    They have no idea what’s going on in the front office.

  43. Doreen December 19th, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Bret -

    The Yankees have consistently throughout their recent history (free agency period) overpaid for impact players.

    They are forced to overpay in trades.

    I really don’t agree with you here.

    I don’t want moves for the sake of moves. They didn’t NEED Crawford. He would have been a nice to have at a more reasonable overpay than it ended up being. If they got Lee, it woudl have been an overpay situation as well – if they decided to outbid the Phillies if they were even given the opportunity. But there are other considerations and one of those, apparently, has become getting a feel for whether that player would be a fit for the Yankees, both in talent and desire/ability to play there. It was becoming clearer by the day that Cliff Lee wasn’t salivating to be in pinstripes.

    The Yankees always overpay for the right player. But I don’t blame the Yankees for refusing to be fleeced every single time they go to make a move.

    And if they overpay for a player and he doesn’t work out, it wouldn’t surprise me if you were one of the first to be critical.

  44. MaineYankee December 19th, 2010 at 9:53 am

    randy

    I’m thinking you’ve been taken over by a RS fan.

    Your posts have been too positive and even hinting a little that maybe Cashman did something right.(Martin) :lol:

  45. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 9:53 am

    GreenBeret,

    Nope. I just don’t think Cliff Lee nuthuggers are in a position to advise me on how to spend my time on this board.

  46. Yankee Trader December 19th, 2010 at 9:54 am

    The Royals got 3 instant players with major league experience and I believe the Brewers top pitching prospect.

  47. Giuseppe Franco December 19th, 2010 at 9:55 am

    # Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 9:47 am

    Guiseppe,

    Maybe watch where you point your gun?

    This board spent 99% of the off season agonizing over Lee and now you’re fixed on the 1% of posts devoted to alternative possibilities.

    So don’t tell me what’s a waste of time and what is not.

    You’re a guesser too. And a bad one. Just like me.

    Suck it up man.

    ——–

    You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about.

    I didn’t agonize anything over Lee. I didn’t spend 24/7 on this board claiming Cashman needed to get him or else.

    Sure, I thought they’d probably get him. But I don’t spend any time whining about it.

    I’m sure they have other plans. Maybe you should sit back, wait, and watch and find out what those plans are over the next couple of months.

  48. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 9:55 am

    Austin-

    I see where you’re coming from.

    I think AP will be back. If not, we’re in deep Kim Chee.

    Either way, I’m in the camp that felt that we needed to visit Geico for more insurance. I’d be lying if I didn’t say I’m disappointed.

    The opposing POV is that we have enough to kept it close until the TD when needs can be more accurately asessed, and more options might be available.

    Let’s hope that’s correct POV.

    IMO Cashman did not have a Plan B.

    Time will tell.

  49. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 9:56 am

    Doreen,

    I’m not saying get fleeced. I’m saying overpay a little. When everyone else is, you’re really paying market rates.

  50. upstate kate December 19th, 2010 at 9:57 am

    Hi Comet :)

  51. yankee21 December 19th, 2010 at 9:57 am

    good morning,

    If Montero can catch at least as good as Piazza, NYY has a guy that will be a fixture for years to come, behind the plate now along with some DH, and 1B when Tex’ contract is up.

    With the smart acquisition of Martin, the Yankees will have the liberty of moving Cervelli or Romine as part of a package to bring back a middle of the rotation type.

    I like the idea of Laird being the RH bat to fill in the OF positions and spell Arod at 3B. I can’t imagine him being needed at 1B in NYY with Tex and his back-up, Swisher around.

    If I’m Cash, pull out all the stops to get Andy to sign on for 1 more year. At least get a decision by Monday. I agree NYY can’t be held hostage any longer waitng for his decision.

    Good to hear NYY has a plan for their young catchers such as Murphy, giving him some oppportunity to play other positions and add to his flexibility. Actually I think he pretty good for a 19 year old in Charleston. That guy can flat out hit.

    Also, is not Benji Gil re-signed, another depth option at Catcher in the MiL.

  52. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 9:57 am

    blake December 19th, 2010 at 9:47 am
    GB,
    That’s what I would hope but would Montero get enough playing time….assuming Martin is going to get the bulk of the innings behind the plate.? I would rather him play every day in Scranton at least to start the season than play a couple times a week in NY. This is all projection at this point. Jason Heyward wasn’t necessarily supposed to open the year with the Braves last year either but he forced their hand in spring training…..Montero could do the same. Needless to say, I like their catching situation in the organization right now….they have a bunch of guys that can hit and now they have a 27 year old guy with a lot of upside that can throw people out.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Breaking in a catcher like that is how they broke in Posada. Slowly. That’s a lot of catching experience/knowledge that he wouldn’t he able to get in AAA. Get his at bats against the weaker pitchers and build the confidence. Rather have that than have something happen to Martin and bring him in cold. He’d also get to spend a lot of time working with Long.

  53. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Comet-

    Welcome to the ice age. Cold up there ?

    :)

  54. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 10:00 am

    Anyone think our rotation is mismatched with Halladay, Lee, Oswalt and Hamels?

  55. MaineYankee December 19th, 2010 at 10:00 am

    MTU

    Have some patience.

    The final card hasn’t been played yet.

    You never know, it might turn up an “ace”

  56. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 10:00 am

    Morning, Comet. Did you win your snowball fight? I’m missing that snow. This 60-70 degree weather in December just doesn’t seem right.

    How have you been?

  57. blake December 19th, 2010 at 10:00 am

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....R2NSliRO/1

    Sherman suggesting that the Yankees best option is to throw the entire farm system at Felix Hernandez. He proposes Montero, Adams, Nunez, Nova, and Betances. I would do that in a split second for Hernandez but I don’t think the Mariners would and Sherman suggests that Yankee officials see that as too much to give up…..my opinion, its not…..Hernandez is worth that price. Pipe dream.

  58. Yogi Mantle December 19th, 2010 at 10:00 am

    I had listened to an interview with Martin on MLB radio. He was talking about how he had changed his workouts and approach at the plate. Some of his workout was to reduce the strength portion and improve the quickness. From his comments, he is now working on more strength again and looking to approach his batting as he used to.

    Working with Long might not hurt him either. Far too early to tell how he will do, but it will be interesting to see how he does in ST.

    The Brewers move with Greinke should be a decent one for him. If he does well, which I would expect him to, it might be the best thing for him. It was obvious he was tired of KC. Not sure if the Brewers is quite what he had been expecting, but a change of scenery might just be enough for his desires. I do think that he was thinking a team that was on his list might have been coming, which facilitated his changing agents.

  59. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 10:00 am

    GB-

    What do you think Jesus is going to teach Long about hitting ?

    :)

  60. austinmac December 19th, 2010 at 10:00 am

    I will defend Bret. He sees what I see. This is a team that has not improved their pitching. Unless Pettitte comes back it is substantially worse. I hope Cashman is trying as much as Bret.

    Does anyone really think Cashman has a plan up his sleeve? His patience statement suggests he does not. His inactivity suggests it even more.

  61. comet December 19th, 2010 at 10:01 am

    MTU perhaps there was no plan B, because one has not presented itself. Cash is IMO rightly reluctant to trade close to the majors talent. Perhaps the price on Greinke was simply too high.

    You can’t force signings and you can’t force trades as we all saw in July with Seattle and Lee.

  62. brianlopez22 December 19th, 2010 at 10:02 am

    If you start Jesus in AAA, then you have to start Romine in AA, forcing Gary Sanchez to catch in A again. By making one move, you’re forcing a domino effect of the minor league system.

    1. Jesus should be given equal opportunity to win the major league job in NY. Russell Martin IS NOT the answer. When Jesus wins the starting job, Romine can catch in Scranton and Sanchez in Trenton. Setting up the next 3 years to bring the catchers up to majors.

    I’ve heard rumors that Sanchez is the best overall catcher in the minors and Jesus can move to DH. Remember though, that forces Jeter to stay at SS.

    2. Brandon Laird in RF is a GREAT move. If he can continue to bulk up and show more power, he could be the Swisher replacement in RF, or at least a solid 4th outfielder.

    great job Chad. Keep us updated on the farm since this is our “Plan B” aka “Patience”

  63. blake December 19th, 2010 at 10:02 am

    “Rather have that than have something happen to Martin and bring him in cold. He’d also get to spend a lot of time working with Long.”

    Good points. I’m hoping that Montero shows up in great shape and breaks a lot of car windows in March and forces the Yankees to take him to NY with them when they leave.

  64. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 10:02 am

    Maine,

    The only thing Cashman has up his sleeve is a booger.

  65. Joe from Long Island December 19th, 2010 at 10:02 am

    Good morning, all –

    1. I think that, while I can easily envision a scenario where Montero opens in Scranton, and Cervelli in NY, it is very much up to Montero where he begins the season. If he comes into camp in shape, plays well and hard, and demonstrates that he cannot be denied, then he’ll open with Martin, and Cisco gets the AAA straw (Romine back to AA). Also, I don’t think Cervelli is untouchable, if the right deal was at stake. Cash has said a lot of teams ask about Cervelli’s availability.

    2. Greinke to Milwaukee. Well, can’t accuse the Brewers of not trying, the past few years. First, the big trade for CC, now this. That is an impressive rotation, should Greinke, Gallardo, Marcum, Wolf, and Parra all pitch like they can.

    3. I still don’t think the Yanks are forced to do anything crazy. Of course, who wouldn’t love a Lee or a Greinke in the NY rotation. But, it didn’t work out. So, you go back to CC and Hughes, and Andy (hopefully). That’s not chopped liver. Season ain’t starting next week.

  66. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 10:03 am

    Maine-

    Let’s hope so.

    Sometimes patience is a good thing sometimes it’s for saps.

    Ever hear of “a bird in the hand” ?

    Maybe you would say, “look before you leap”.

    But hey, I’m a hiker. Remember ?

    :)

  67. YankeeRay December 19th, 2010 at 10:04 am

    #

    :)
    # Doreen December 19th, 2010 at 9:13 am

    Seems likely that if he had included Nunez in the Lee trade Cashman would be in worse shape, all things being equal and Lee still preferring the Phillies. (Of course, we’ll never know, as Lee will never be able to say for sure – he never played for the Yankees and had no ties there, but his preference for the”easier pitching league” would likely have trumped anything else.) If that deal had gone through, they’d have no Lee, AND no Montero AND no Nunez (either or both of which will likely be on the ML team this season and/or be used to acquire a significant talent).

    —————

    Everyone keeps saying we would have lost Lee and Montero and Nunez etc…

    To have avoided this scenario and future ones Cash will have to be more flexible and make adjustments.
    He needs to rethink his no extensions during season policy to allow the Yankees to be more flexible in a demanding market. Had he done this in the Lee trade then he could have thrown in Nunez and signed Lee on the spot.
    I’m not saying that the trade would have been a good one but at least it could have been completed with no concern of losing everything.

  68. blake December 19th, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Sanchez hasn’t really even played in A ball yet…..he’ll probably get a full year at Tampa or Charleston in 2011 and then we’ll get a real idea of what he is all about.

  69. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Blake, Seattle had better be sending Gutierrez along in that deal.

  70. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 10:06 am

    Comet-

    Ever think that maybe you are giving Cashman too much credit here ?

    Let’s see him bust a move and I’ll accept what you say.

    Until then I’m not a believer.

    I believe in results not excuses.

    But that’s just me.

    :)

  71. pat December 19th, 2010 at 10:07 am

    pgammo Cain, Escobar, Odirizzi, ptbnl for Greinke indeed pending medicals

    Brewers reportedly also on Greinke’s no trade list so his approval might be necessary if it hasn’t already been given.

  72. MaineYankee December 19th, 2010 at 10:07 am

    austinmac

    Which approach would you like better?

    The one George took in the 80s by signing all the stars and have them not fit or take a more patient approach and build for the present and the future.

  73. BD (Boston Dave) December 19th, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Greinke to Milwaukee for a package of quantity (vs quality)

    I’d love to know what the Yanks offered… just out of curiosity.

  74. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 10:09 am

    Maine-

    Sorry but they are not mutually exclusive.

    ;)

  75. MaineYankee December 19th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    MTU

    Sometimes if you go to fast and don’t look where you walk you step in it. :lol:

  76. blake December 19th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    GB,

    Eh, maybe….everyone in that potential deal is expendable except Montero and Betances. Its a lot to give up but it would give the Yankees the best rotation in baseball with Sabathia still in his prime, with Hernadez and Hughes both under 25, and with Banuelos, Brackman, Phelps, Noesi, Warren, etc still in the system. Heavy price, but with the catching depth the Yankees have I’d have to do that one……the Mariners probably no so much right now.

  77. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    MTU,

    On patience…

    I agree.

    It’s for sissy boys.

  78. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 10:11 am

    “Your posts have been too positive and even hinting a little that maybe Cashman did something right.(Martin)”

    to use a car racing analogy, since he’s driving the yankees vehicle that’s got more horsepower( cash) than any competitor , cashman should be able to win a few races.

    i’ve got a hunch that martin has those intangibles that make a player fit in with the yankees.

  79. Crawdaddy December 19th, 2010 at 10:11 am

    “Greinke to Milwaukee for a package of quantity (vs quality)”

    Actually, the Brewers gave away a lot of quality.

  80. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 10:12 am

    There was no guaranrees that KC offered Greinke to the Yankees, that Cashman refused to pay the freight or more importantly that Greinke would allow the trade to NY. Even more is the possibility that Cashman refused to trade for Greinke without an extention and Greinke said no.

  81. Chip December 19th, 2010 at 10:13 am

    GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 9:40 am
    I think that it?s Cervelli that will split the catching duties in Scranton with Romine, unless one of them is traded. As long as Montero has shown improvement with his defense during ST and hits there?s no reason for him not open in NY.

    ————————-

    I think we’re going to see Montero in NY – but I believe they’ll start him in Scranton.

    Just let him play regularly down there before calling him up (Mid June) so that he gets into a flow at the plate rather than coming up and playing in fits and starts.

    By the way – I read the Brandon Laird stuff and it wouldn’t shock me if the Yankees abandon the idea of playing him all over the place – just leave him in RF and let Swisher go when his contract is up and make Laird the everyday RF.

  82. blake December 19th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Yea thats a pretty good package the Brewers gave up…they are clearly trying to compete before they lose Fielder. They also could trade Greinke at some point down the road and recoup some of their losses.

    Aside from a few bad franchises….baseball has more parody right now than I can remember. Most teams are either good or at least interesting.

  83. comet December 19th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Hey GB7 won my snowball fight, pitching like CC. MTU we have little but it’s cool.

    MTU you may well be right about me giving Cashman too much credit. Would you trade Montero et al for King Felix?

  84. MaineYankee December 19th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    randy

    It must be because he’s a catcher you approve.

    There you go being biased again. :lol:

  85. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Maine-

    And sometimes if you sit on your can for too long life just goes wizzin’ by.

    Thing is to find balance between both approaches.

    Waiting endlessly does not guarnatee you anything but death and taxes.

    Hustlin’ too much means you sometimes fall into a crevasse.

    I beleve in findin’ the middle ground between the two.

    :)

  86. Chip December 19th, 2010 at 10:15 am

    Crawdaddy December 19th, 2010 at 10:11 am
    ?Greinke to Milwaukee for a package of quantity (vs quality)?

    Actually, the Brewers gave away a lot of quality.

    —————-

    Agreed – As I said the Yankees don’t have an Escobar on their roster – a young, cheap guy who is at a premium position and is likely to blossom into an elite player.

    The closest is Cano and there was no way the Yankees were going to part with Robbie – plus he’s due some big money soon.

  87. Chip December 19th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Blake -

    I think the word you were going for is parity; the way the Pirates play is a parody.

  88. pat December 19th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    SI_JonHeyman #royals get cain, escobar, odirizzi and ptbnl for greinke, betancourt and $2 mil

  89. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Comet-

    In a heartbeat of a NY minute.

    :)

  90. jpb173 December 19th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    The Yanks weren’t able to get in on the Greinke deal, so its beginning to look like we are going to be retooling with younger players. This is a transition that will take 2-3 years but is needed. We’ve had a pretty good run here with 5 WS championships, 7 AL pennants and 15 playoff appearances over 16 years. This last dynasty was built around a solid nucleus of home grown players. If we are lucky the Yankees are putting together the nucleus for the next dynasty. Also, by the time the younger players are ready to compete for the playoffs again (2-3 years) most of the big salaries will be off the rolls and the Yankees can spend big bucks to get free agents to surround the nucleus.

  91. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 10:17 am

    “So, you go back to CC and Hughes, and Andy (hopefully). That’s not chopped liver”

    joe from long island-

    how many wins do you project the yankees wo win with the present starting rotation?

    i’d say 96-97 as is.

  92. blake December 19th, 2010 at 10:17 am

    The chances of the Hernandez thing happening are very slim right now. The Mariners have no real incentive to trade him and if I’m the Yankees then I’d be very hesitant to deal with their GM again…..he may have bailed them out on the Cliff Lee deal but that wasn’t his intention.

  93. Chip December 19th, 2010 at 10:18 am

    It’s interesting to me that two of the best pitchers in the American League are now in the National League.

    Think about the Cy Young battle they’re going to have:

    Halladay, Greinke, Lee, Lincecum, Johnson, Johan (if and when he returns)

    Whereas in the AL it’s essentially Lester, Felix, CC.

  94. blake December 19th, 2010 at 10:19 am

    Chip,

    come on man….it’s early. Spelling is my kryptonite anyway….along with a few other things.

  95. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    It’s a huge gamble to take a young pitcher in a trade like that when he already has multiple drug suspensions against him (Jeffress).

  96. Yogi Mantle December 19th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Its a pipe dream to think the Mariners would trade Hernandez. There is no reason for them to trade him, he is on a good deal and might be about one of the few reasons why their fans continue to support them. Unless he demands a trade, and even that seems far fetched to me.

  97. upstate kate December 19th, 2010 at 10:23 am

    I have to admit I am totally annoyed about the media reports on the Cliff Lee trade. They act as if he was some kind of martyr to turn down the Yankees offer. As if he isn’t getting well paid by the Phillies and as if he didn’t choose to go to the easier league to pitch in.

  98. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 10:23 am

    comet December 19th, 2010 at 10:14 am
    Hey GB7 won my snowball fight, pitching like CC. MTU we have little but it’s cool.

    MTU you may well be right about me giving Cashman too much credit. Would you trade Montero et al for King Felix?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Good deal. You’re better than Randy Johnson, who just winged his guy.

  99. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Difficult to fathom but the trade value of Carlos Zambrano just went up. If Pettitte retires, it goes up even more.

  100. blake December 19th, 2010 at 10:24 am

    “Its a pipe dream to think the Mariners would trade Hernandez.”

    Yes but it’s fun to pipe dream about. I actually think it would be easier to pry Johnson away from the Marlins but that’s also a pide dreamish idea as well. If Pettite comes back then they’ll be ok and if they could add another mid rotation arm then that would be even better.

  101. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Posada played in 60 games and got 224 PA in 1997. There’s no reason why Montero can’t do the same thing in NY this year.

  102. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    joe form long island-

    it would be interesting to know how many wins cashman thinks the yankees are at right now.

    i’d say he thinks about 95 which would explain why he wants to improve the starting pitching, but it’s not the end of the world if he doesn’t because there’s a lot that can happen during the season.

  103. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 10:26 am

    Randy-

    Have you gone all sabremetric on me now ?

    :)

  104. Sweet Swinging Cano December 19th, 2010 at 10:26 am

    Pujols is more likely to be dealt then King Felix. I just don’t see it. The Mariners would lose a ton of revenue.

  105. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    rich in nj-

    where does the sabermetric crowd think the yankees are with expected wins for 2011?

  106. blake December 19th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Bret,

    I don’t think much….if the Cubs want that 38 million off their books (or a portion of it) then they aren’t in a position to demand much in the way of prospects. I would be fine with Zambrano if the Cubs pick up some of his contract and the prospects in the deal are non-impact. There just aren’t many teams willing to take on that much money for the risk he brings.

  107. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Blake-

    I’ll take Z. Just keep that cattle prod handy along with the straight jacket.

    ;)

  108. blake December 19th, 2010 at 10:29 am

    “Pujols is more likely to be dealt then King Felix. I just don’t see it. The Mariners would lose a ton of revenue.”

    maybe but they are also losing a lot of revenue by being terrible. That team needs a lot more than Felix to be competitive as they showed last year.

  109. Dylan December 19th, 2010 at 10:29 am

    I’m a little disappointed that we didn’t trade for Greinke, but I’m not sure that it was even possible. Supposedly he refused to waive his no-trade clause to go to Washington. I’m not convinced that he would have waived his no-trade clause to go to NY, if he knew that he could be traded elsewhere instead. Time for Cash to get creative. Lets see what roster he is able to put together.

  110. West Coast Yankee Fan December 19th, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Giuseppe Franco December 19th, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Exactly. That’s why Bret and WCYF always whine about Cashman. They have no idea what’s going on in the front office.

    **************

    My criticisms of Cashman, who I have said is not the worst GM in baseball, and not the best; is predominantly based on what he has done or not done in the past and his performance now. I have presented a logical case for my criticism of him. That is not whining, the use of that word is just you being, well, you.

  111. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 10:29 am

    # Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Difficult to fathom but the trade value of Carlos Zambrano just went up. If Pettitte retires, it goes up even more.
    ——————————————————————————–
    no matter what everyone in BB knows the situation with the Yankee SP……they will have to overpay for sure for any SP they look at, the only one they might not is the Big Z…..Cubs have to believe want to get rid of him and his contract

  112. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 10:30 am

    AJ, Posada and Zambrano in the same clubhouse sells season tickets and torpedos UFC ratings.

  113. MaineYankee December 19th, 2010 at 10:31 am

    MTU

    This isn’t a sprint.

    In a marathon you pace yourself.

    If you expend to much at the beginning you burn out by the end.

    Sometimes you buy something when you first see it and then see it on sale a week later.

    Patience is difficult for some but it can pay off.

    The key is to know when to strike early and when to wait.

    Because Lee didn’t work out is not a reason to do something just to do something.

  114. West Coast Yankee Fan December 19th, 2010 at 10:31 am

    And by the way GF. There is not a single blogger here that knows what is going on in the front office. Everyone gives their opinion, it’s a forum for discussion.

  115. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Bret-

    And when the raging bull is enraged he makes Mike Tyson seem like a choirboy.

    Mt. Vesuvius in PS. Cool.

    :)

  116. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 10:32 am

    # Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 10:30 am

    AJ, Posada and Zambrano in the same clubhouse sells season tickets and torpedos UFC ratings.
    —————————————————-
    won’t be dull

  117. Jerkface December 19th, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Escobar is a tremendous young player who hasn’t even scratched the surface of what he’s going to be, making no money, playing a premium position and doing it at a high level in the majors – in other words – he’s way way better than Brett Gardner. And Cain is essentially their Jesus Montero, but there’s no question that Cain can play CF.

    This is hogwash Chip, in a full season Escobar hit .235 .288 .326 .614, thats ‘doing it at a high level’????? He is Eduardo Nunez with a better glove. His career minor league line is .293 .333 .377 .709. He has zero plate discipline, he strikes out more than 10% of the time, and he has no power.

    The yankees absolutely could have matched this deal. Cain is Brett Gardner, he is not ‘jesus Montero’

    Cain is .291 .366 .416 .781 in the minors.
    gardner is .289 .389 .383 .772 in the minors.

    They both hit about the same at AAA.

    And the other pitcher is a relief guy who is erratic and has failed 3 drug tests, and the other is in A ball.

    Yankees could have smashed this trade.

  118. blake December 19th, 2010 at 10:33 am

    If the Yankees can do nothing else then re-signing Pettite and adding Soriano would make them a very very good team with an absolute lock down bullpen. I don’t know if they’d be willing to “overpay” Soriano enough so that he’d be willing to set up for Rivera but they could look into it. I don’t see them going into 2011 with a payroll that’s significantly lower than last year….they will spend the money somewhere.

  119. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Maine-

    Didn’t you read what I said ?

    I said that one needs to find that balance you just spoke of.

    I guess we’re just not communicating today, huh ?

    ;)

  120. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 10:34 am

    MTU,

    Maybe the Yankees should hire Mike Tyson as the bat boy, just to get him into that clubhouse with Zambrano, AJ and Jorge. On another note, someone needs to launch a Free-Kyle-Farnsworth campaign.

  121. Crawdaddy December 19th, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Jerkface,

    Player evaluation is more than just stats. What you forget is that KC probably has a higher opinion of Escobar and Cain than Nunez and Gardner.

  122. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 10:35 am

    SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
    greinke told #royals he wouldnt mind going to #yankees days ago, tho family members had reservations. deal never close w/ nyy tho.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    No way of knowing how much truth there is to this statement about family input in Greinke’s decision, but, it is a possibility.

  123. Crawdaddy December 19th, 2010 at 10:36 am

    “I don’t see them going into 2011 with a payroll that’s significantly lower than last year….they will spend the money somewhere.”

    I can if they’re targeting some expensive piece that may become available mid-season.

  124. Mell December 19th, 2010 at 10:37 am

    2nd day in a row I’m agreeing with Jerkface. Royals end of this deal is decent, but nothing special. Yankees could have topped it quite easily.

  125. RadioKev December 19th, 2010 at 10:37 am

    I’m certain that no decision has been made about who will be the starting catcher. Martin is still an unknown and so is Montero. Whoever really impresses in spring training will get the gig, and if Cervelli impresses the most and the other two stink, I’d bet he’d get the job too.

    I just think those judgements are premature.

  126. Sweet Swinging Cano December 19th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    LOL Zambrano and AJ would be like having the Bushwackers in the clubhouse. Get the pacifiers ready.

  127. comet December 19th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    GB how are things with you? How soon until and Nurse Karloff rondezvous again?

  128. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    can’t get SP then they need to spend their money on the RP, that is also shrinking with players left. How important is Andy going to be if he resigns and if he don’t… really don’t want to think about it

  129. ac1 December 19th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    like usual, my guess is the royals were asking ALOT more from us than they asked Milwaukee.

  130. blake December 19th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    “I can if they’re targeting some expensive piece that may become available mid-season.”

    True, but just no way to know that. I think they’ll do something else aside from Petttie….just don’t know what.

  131. Jerkface December 19th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    Player evaluation is more than just stats. What you forget is that KC probably has a higher opinion of Escobar and Cain than Nunez and Gardner.

    They might like both of those players better than Nunez and Gardner sure, but that doesn’t change those players values and ceilings. Cain was never even a top 100 prospect in the minors.

    He is brett gardner.

    Escobar has always had tools hype, but he has never put together a major threat season in the minors.

  132. Sweet Swinging Cano December 19th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    Is anyone worried that If Martin starts he won’t handle the staff right? I have heard reports he is a bad game caller. That could just be talk though.

  133. West Coast Yankee Fan December 19th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    Crawdaddy December 19th, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Jerkface, Player evaluation is more than just stats.

    *********************

    Best post of the year.

  134. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    Mell-

    I third that.

    Other factors at work IMO.

  135. blake December 19th, 2010 at 10:40 am

    The Yankees certainly could have matched or topped the Brewers offer but apparently chose not to…….

  136. Sweet Swinging Cano December 19th, 2010 at 10:41 am

    Or Greinke didn’t wanna come to NY.

  137. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 10:41 am

    comet December 19th, 2010 at 10:38 am
    GB how are things with you? How soon until and Nurse Karloff rondezvous again?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Hey!!!! That’s not funny. It’s only funny seeing her moaning and crying over Randy. She really has the hots for him. Should I be crushed by this?

  138. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 10:41 am

    Crawdaddy,

    Why play for a mid-season target?

    What if that target is unavailable at that point?

  139. MaineYankee December 19th, 2010 at 10:41 am

    MTU

    I guess I’ve misread you.

    I thought you wanted some action now rather than wait and see what develops.

    If I have, my mistake.

  140. Jerkface December 19th, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Lorenzo cain has some plate discipline, below average power, and has some speed. Escobar has no plate discipline, no power, has good speed, and is a very very good defender.

    The problem is neither are real impact players.

    Nunez and Gardner would not be impact players either, but the Yankees could have given the Royals some impact arms that would be ready SOON.

    The one impact player in the deal, the Brewers only pitching prospect, is in A BALL!

  141. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 10:42 am

    # Sweet Swinging Cano December 19th, 2010 at 10:41 am

    Or Greinke didn’t wanna come to NY.
    ———————————————–
    he’s not the only one

  142. ac1 December 19th, 2010 at 10:42 am

    The Yankees certainly could have matched or topped the Brewers offer but apparently chose not to…….

    __

    Or weren’t given the chance

    Or, KC asked for a lot more then they asked from them.

  143. Joe from Long Island December 19th, 2010 at 10:43 am

    randy –

    I think – barring injury – that they’re going to win in the mid-90s – 94-97. Heck, they won 89 in 2008, before CC, the “good” AJ, Phil, and Tex in the lineup. I think Posada was injured that year, also. So, they’ve got the horses. And, adding Martin and Montero will prove to be very good. And I’ve had my eye on Feliciano for a while now and been impressed with how consistently good he is against lefties.

    And I’m expecting Brackman to make an appearance mid-season. He’s on a ML contract, and time’s a wastin’. Pat M. was right, he did have a breakout year in the minors, now it’s time for him to build on that. People have been talking about him coming out of the pen, but I could see the Yanks using him as a starter, if need be.

    I know that’s projecting, and the games aren’t played on paper or video screens, but that’s how I see it.

  144. comet December 19th, 2010 at 10:43 am

    If I were you I’d be delighted!

  145. 108 stitches December 19th, 2010 at 10:43 am

    No trading partners in the AL now with the possible exception of the Indians or White Sox.
    Teams in the AL East don’t deal players of significance within themselves.
    The NL teams that have players the Yankees need seem to narrow down to the Cubs, Astros, and Marlins.

  146. comet December 19th, 2010 at 10:44 am

    GB Walt Dropo died. Who did he beat for ROY? No cheating by looking it up?

  147. Crawdaddy December 19th, 2010 at 10:44 am

    “Why play for a mid-season target?

    What if that target is unavailable at that point?”

    Because to spend money now just to reach your budget limit is the wrong move.

    You spend your money on the players that best fit your team and make you better in the long run.

  148. West Coast Yankee Fan December 19th, 2010 at 10:45 am

    When does patience become uh-oh?

  149. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 10:46 am

    Crawdaddy,

    It’s sounding like there were never tangible options outside of Cliff Lee.

    I’m not advocating spending just to spend.

  150. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 10:46 am

    if the Marlins are having a problem with RN I kick the tires on him….

  151. Crawdaddy December 19th, 2010 at 10:46 am

    “The problem is neither are real impact players.”

    Jerkface,

    Maybe, but KC sure likes them which is why that trade went down.

  152. G. Love December 19th, 2010 at 10:46 am

    At this point the fear of the Yankees doing some stupid should go away. There’s no top pitching left to trade for.

    Unless Cashman gives up Montero for Carmona (which would be the worst trade in Yankee history) I think it’s safe to assume he’s sticking with the farm system and he’s putting the back end of the rotation together with glue and bubble gum if Pettitte doesn’t return.

    Look at the list of starting pitchers Chad posted the other day. You scan the depth charts and you’ll see there’s nothing else out there you can feasibly trade for.

    This says to me one thing; The Yankees did not adequately prepare for this scenario.

    Was it arrogance that they would get Lee easily? Maybe.

    But they were not prepared for this even with a solid contingency plan at this point.

    This is where the Crawford situation comes in. If we were proactive and signed him we then would have dealt one of our starting OF’ers for starting pitcher.

    Now we can’t deal our OF’ers for a pitcher since we’ll have a major hole in the OF.

    The lack of planning for this going back to what he could have done last season when Lee didn’t come here is troubling to me right now.

    Think Lowe, Millwood types at this point in the rotation. That’s realistic.

  153. Sweet Swinging Cano December 19th, 2010 at 10:46 am

    I am far from uh oh. It’s not like the Yankees had a zillion holes. More things are to come in my opinion.

  154. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 10:46 am

    Maine-

    No worries.

    I would like some action now but if that’s just not possible then I guess we’ll have no choice but to see how it plays out.

    I would like a little more insurance in the Pitching dep’t.

    Of course, I hope it works out well either way.

    :)

  155. ac1 December 19th, 2010 at 10:48 am

    I still think Chris Carpenter is an option.

  156. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 10:48 am

    comet December 19th, 2010 at 10:43 am
    If I were you I’d be delighted!

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    “Killer’s” happy about it, too. Even he refused to go out with her. He didn’t like the fact that she had those 2 furry cats with her. Turns out that those were her legs.

  157. Sweet Swinging Cano December 19th, 2010 at 10:48 am

    The Yankees can do better then Lowe and Millwood.

  158. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 10:49 am

    G. Love,

    That’s the way I see it too.

    The plan was Cliff Lee or bust.

    It was stupid to snub Crawford.

  159. ac1 December 19th, 2010 at 10:50 am

    Yeah because Crawford is totally worth that 142 Million he was given…. (sarcasm)

  160. Crawdaddy December 19th, 2010 at 10:50 am

    Thank God, they snub Crawford. What an overpriced contract.

  161. Mell December 19th, 2010 at 10:50 am

    “I still think Chris Carpenter is an option.”

    Agree, though I think he’ll be more available at mid season than he is now.

  162. 108 stitches December 19th, 2010 at 10:50 am

    Enough wasted energy on a Greinke deal. (IF) Cashman had talks with K.C. they probably wanted to hold the Yankees hostage looking for all upside Yankee prospects. When told no, they moved on to Milwaukee.

  163. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 10:50 am

    I’d rather have the Crawford contingency plan than no plan at all.

  164. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 10:51 am

    they will need SP who will give them innings in the 4-5 spot, the 4 guy gets once around the order & the 5 guy stinks as it stands right now

  165. austinmac December 19th, 2010 at 10:51 am

    Maine,

    Just because a team trades prospects doesn’t mean they have given up on promoting from within. A combination of both is needed. I believe Cashman is now gun-shy. I also believe he could have used minor league depth to get a quality pitcher. I don’t think that option still exists.

    I prefer not yo watch

  166. West Coast Yankee Fan December 19th, 2010 at 10:51 am

    G. Love December 19th, 2010 at 10:46 am

    I think these are the kind of comments which serve as very fair, valid criticisms of Brian Cashman.

    “The Yankees did not adequately prepare for this scenario”.

    “But they were not prepared for this even with a solid contingency plan at this point”.

    “This is where the Crawford situation comes in. If we were proactive and signed him we then would have dealt one of our starting OF’ers for starting pitcher. Now we can’t deal our OF’ers for a pitcher since we’ll have a major hole in the OF”.

    “The lack of planning for this going back to what he could have done last season when Lee didn’t come here is troubling to me right now”.

  167. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 10:51 am

    comet December 19th, 2010 at 10:44 am
    GB Walt Dropo died. Who did he beat for ROY? No cheating by looking it up?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Whitey Ford. Of course Ford was only with NY for 2 months, but, 144 RBI, 34 homers, .322 is tough to top.

  168. Triple Short of a Cycle December 19th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    I am so shocked that Grienke was traded for garbage. Remember when KC asked for Montero for Dejesus? The Yankees will never be able to trade for a top starter when teams continue to demand more from the Yankees and then take garbage from other teams. At least we can stop talking about Grienke on here. Let the non stop Danks talk begin

  169. Crawdaddy December 19th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    “I’d rather have the Crawford contingency plan than no plan at all.”

    Thankfully, you’re not the Yankee GM then.

  170. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    “Best post of the year.”

    the above is the worst post of the year :)

  171. MaineYankee December 19th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    G. Love

    The Yankees have enough talent in the minors to trade for a pitcher without bloating the payroll with a Crawford contract.

  172. Sweet Swinging Cano December 19th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Thare are still options left. Why do people assume they had no plan after Lee? Nobody can say that for sure.

  173. Jerkface December 19th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Maybe, but KC sure likes them which is why that trade went down.

    Sure, dude, KC must love these guys, but Dayton Moore is kind of an idiot. Teams can lose trades all the time. Get the wrong prospects even though you LIKE THEM and they bust and you’re stuck. You think the Twins liked what they got for Johan Santana? Their favorite part must be how 3 of the players aren’t even MLB quality. And the ‘impact player’ Carlos Gomez hit only .248 .294 .353 .647 in the last 3 seasons.

    Its obvious KC liked this deal, or else they wouldn’t have made it. On the other hand, the haul they got back was kind of weak. It doesn’t really help them as much as a trade with the Rangers or Yankees could have.

    Had they tried to work a trade with either of those teams they could have got a pitcher back closer to the majors and with far more upside than Odorizzi.

  174. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    # Mell December 19th, 2010 at 10:50 am

    “I still think Chris Carpenter is an option.”

    Agree, though I think he’ll be more available at mid season than he is now.
    —————————————————-
    St Lou thinks they can win and they won’t without him….

  175. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 10:53 am

    Cashman gun shy? He is a blatant hypochondriac. Blatant.

  176. austinmac December 19th, 2010 at 10:53 am

    . . .Not to watch Yankee starter pitch 4-5 innings o. A regular basis.

  177. Crawdaddy December 19th, 2010 at 10:53 am

    “I am so shocked that Grienke was traded for garbage.”

    My choice for worst post of the year.

  178. Jerkface December 19th, 2010 at 10:54 am

    Bret’s OCD is kicking in again. And his mis-use of words.

  179. Crawdaddy December 19th, 2010 at 10:55 am

    “On the other hand, the haul they got back was kind of weak.”

    It’s weak according to your opinion as a Yankee fan, but that doesn’t mean you’re right with that opinion.

  180. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 10:56 am

    At least I wasn’t born with the ahole gene Jerkface.

  181. Mell December 19th, 2010 at 10:56 am

    “St Lou thinks they can win and they won’t without him…”

    I know, which is why I don’t think he’s available right now. However, if they are not doing well by the break, I can see them looking to move him, especially as they look to figure how to pay Pujols.

  182. Triple Short of a Cycle December 19th, 2010 at 10:58 am

    Crawdaddy,

    Their SS has a glove but can’t hit. Their CF will never be an all star. Talk to me in 5 years to see who is right. I bet you said the same thing from the haul Minn got for Santana. The fact is the Royals could have had a much better package from Texas yet chose quantity over quality. Something the NY Islanders have been doing for years

  183. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 10:59 am

    “I know that’s projecting, and the games aren’t played on paper or video screens, but that’s how I see it.”

    joe from long island-

    i see it pretty much like you see it. i think there’s been panic and fear on the blog since lee went to philly and people have gone overboard what dire straits the yankees are in.

    tampa bay has taken two steps backwards. who is going to take a playoff spot from the yankees at this point?

    it would be great if there were some good free agent starters available, but there isn’t. the yankees made the playoffs last year with middle of the road pitching. they should this year too.

    adding a good starter would be great, but to act like the yankees are desperate for one is absurd.

  184. austinmac December 19th, 2010 at 10:59 am

    Mel,

    Hoping Carpenter is available is not a plan just as other failed hopes were not plans.

  185. Triple Short of a Cycle December 19th, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Crawdaddy,

    Furthermore the Brewers didn’t even have a great farm system to begin with. Lawrie was their best player and he already got traded for a lesser pitcher in Marcum

  186. MaineYankee December 19th, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Austinmac

    Cashman proved last year he isn’t afraid to trade prospects.

    Because no deals have been done like that doesn’t mean he hasn’t tried.

    If the asking price in talent is to high he’s better off not to do a deal.

  187. Triple Short of a Cycle December 19th, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Why would Carpenter be available? The Cardinals are contending. Why would they trade their second best starter?

  188. G. Love December 19th, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Chris Carpenter is not available. Where in the world do you think St. Louis is a seller in the off season?

    Their division just got tougher with Greinke. You think they’re going to sell off one of the best starters they have and pack it in for the season?

    There is nothing left to trade for other than guys like Carmona, Zambrano, Derek Lowe, etc.

    The really good starting pitching that makes sense to deplete your system for is gone right now.

    Teams are not in sell off mode. KC isn’t even in it now that they’ve traded Greinke.

    If Andy doesn’t come back this is a doomsday scenario unless Cashman has some team on the line who no one in baseball knows about.

    I’m happy that Montero didn’t get traded for Greinke. What I’m not happy about is that the Yankees put all their eggs into the Cliff Lee basket. It was poor strategy from the point that he got traded to Texas instead of NY.

    There should have been a backup plan since we know after we missed out out landing Lee and Texas got him last year that Andy was injured and perpetual question mark to return, Javy was terrible and not coming back and AJ was horrible and a huge problem in the rotation.

    He needed potentially 3 pitchers and because we didn’t get Lee he gave up?

    If you don’t see this as a problem you’re not looking clearly at what’s gone on here since the team won the World Series. These problems were staring the GM in the face and the only answer he seemed to have was Cliff Lee or bust.

  189. 108 stitches December 19th, 2010 at 11:03 am

    The Cubs are looking for salary relief. Take Zambrano and sweeten the deal by adding Carlos Marmol. Give them Chamberlain, Romulo Sanchez, Kevin Russo, and either Corban Joseph or David Adams. If a dealbreaker exists, add Adam Warren.

    Send Ryan Pope, Mitre, and Cervelli to Houston for Jeff Keppinger.

  190. Yogi Mantle December 19th, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Randy, the problem is the East is going to be such a tough battle, with the Orioles being tougher, the Blue Jays being tough, and the Rays, while looking like they took a step back, will still have a ton of talent on their team. It may be that the Wild Card isn’t coming out of the East as the other divisions may be easier to get the wins needed against weaker opponents.

    2nd place in the East may not be enough to move into the playoffs.

  191. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 11:05 am

    Cashman is on autopilot. He’s a millionaire. He’s burnt out. The minute he started B-slapping Jeter in the press, his staff should’ve rushed to his side with smelling salts.

  192. comet December 19th, 2010 at 11:07 am

    Randy I – Post of the day!

  193. 38HotDogs December 19th, 2010 at 11:07 am

    Great post G Love – not having a backup plan after Lee is going to bite Cashman in the butt. If Andy retires – it will be interesting watching the Front Office sell a “Bridge Year” to the fan base.

  194. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 11:08 am

    G. Love-

    Spot on.

    Couldn’t have written it better myself.

    ;)

  195. austinmac December 19th, 2010 at 11:08 am

    Maine,

    My point is I suspect Cashman is hesitant to trade this year because of last year. I have never been anti-Cashman, but this team has weaknesses that to date still exist and options to fix them are about gone.

    Carpenter is 35 and eligible to be a free agent at the end of the year. Who wants to trade prospects for 1/3 year or to

  196. BD (Boston Dave) December 19th, 2010 at 11:09 am

    re: Greinke

    whether you value the players Milwaukee traded or not, it wasn’t a large haul for KC.

    KC was reportedly asking for Kyle Drabek AND Travis Snider from Toronto.

    I don’t know if the Yankees were very interested but I don’t doubt that they could have exceeded the Milwaukee offer, without including one of their top 4-5 prospects, if they wanted to.

    Either KC didn’t want to help out the Yanks or the Yanks had hesitation about dealing for Zach.

    It’s probably a little of both (mostly B) but if so, it means the Yankees don’t feel desperate for another pitcher. If they were desperate, as many posters seem to be, they’d have far exceeded Milwaukee’s offer and landed Greinke.

    The Yankees and Cashman probably feel they need to improve the roster, but not overpay to do it.

    That philosophy may not make them as good as they could possibly be for 2011, but it sounds like a good plan for the future.

  197. austinmac December 19th, 2010 at 11:09 am

    or to extend a 35 year old with a long injury history?

  198. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 11:10 am

    MTU,

    G. Love sees things my way accept I’m to angry to articulate it.

    I want to strangle Cashman. G. Love somehow manages to filter out the animosity.

    That makes him a great poster.

  199. Mell December 19th, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Austinmac:

    Carpenter’s contract features a team option for 2012.

  200. BD (Boston Dave) December 19th, 2010 at 11:11 am

    “it will be interesting watching the Front Office sell a “Bridge Year” to the fan base.”

    —————-

    which wildcard contender has a better team than the Yankees do right now?

    suggesting the Yankees can’t win the wildcard, much less the division, on Dec 19th doesn’t sound like a wise idea to me.

    Can the Yankees be better? Yes.

    Would selling the farm and emptying the bank to make them better be a good idea? Probably not.

    The Sox are sort of going “all-in” right now. If they weren’t, not many would be panicking about the Yankees.

  201. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 11:12 am

    Mac-

    Same for me. I have not been anti- Cashman.

    Still am not but that doesn’t change that a Plan B, and if necessary
    Plan C should have been in place.

    Maybe there was one but so far I have seen no evidence to support that position.

    Let’s see how it continues to unfold. As some have pointed out the clock on improving has not run it’s course.

  202. austinmac December 19th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Mell,

    I didn’t know that. Does he has 5-10′rights requiring consent, i.e., extension, before he can be traded?

  203. 108 stitches December 19th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Too soon to figure what players will shake out at the 7/31 trading deadline. The Yankees need to get out of the gate and the first 4 months on a high note then see what’s needed at the end of July. No way to predict what injuries could happen before 7/31.
    Have enough attractive prospects to use if needed but be selective with what players are moved.

  204. G-C December 19th, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Its moves like this I just DON’T understand.

    I understand Kansas City is a small market team with a low payroll. It would be one thing if they were in the midst of a five year rebuilding process, after, lets say, the team was competitive as far back as five years ago. That’s not the case. This is a team that is PERPETUALLY re-building, or to put it more bluntly, perpetually awful.

    Trading away one of the ten best pitchers in baseball, who happens to be almost as young as some of the run of the mill prospects they’re landing in return, is just utter lunacy. How do you ever expect to build a team if you can’t even hold onto the ONE player on your entire pitching staff with tangible value?

    I guess what I’m saying is, without trading Greinke, Kansas City might have had a chance to be good in two or three years. By trading him, they might have a chance to be good in five or six years.

    I don’t care that he wouldn’t sign an extension. Taking such a long-term view is why teams like Kansas City perpetually suck, and its really bad for baseball.

  205. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Bret-

    What about me ?

    Chopped liver I guess. Or scrambled brains anyway.

    :)

    Just sit back and relax. Let it play out Man.

  206. BD (Boston Dave) December 19th, 2010 at 11:15 am

    “Still am not but that doesn’t change that a Plan B, and if necessary
    Plan C should have been in place.

    Maybe there was one but so far I have seen no evidence to support that position.”

    ———————

    The Yankees felt they needed pitching this offseason.

    In a market where Carl Pavano is the second best free agent option, I doubt anybody would be happy with Plan B, C, D, or Z.

    This offseason was about Cliff Lee. He chose to go elsewhere.

    Overpaying for second or third tier pitchers is a bad Plan B, IMO.

    The Yankees are good enough to stay in the race until the trade deadline. If Cashman can’t do anything then, maybe you can worry.

    Otherwise, let’s worry about Pettitte and let the media continue their annual lovefest with the Red Sox for the time being.

  207. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Trade deadline prices are always higher. If the Yankees are in a position where they must acquire a #2 starter mid season, then they’re probably clinging to their playoff hopes. If their backs are up against the wall late as the July 31st deadline approaches, they’re going to have to overpay far more in the future.

    Waiting for the trade deadline is a huge risk, far higher risk than overpaying slightly for a Danny Haren type of pitcher.

  208. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 11:17 am

    MTU,

    You are a great poster too.

    You take it to another level. You shed the animosity and blend in humor.

    Without you we all commit LOHUD blog homicide.

  209. Rich in NJ December 19th, 2010 at 11:17 am

    I would definitely find out how short a deal Pavano would accept.

  210. BD (Boston Dave) December 19th, 2010 at 11:17 am

    G-C,

    I’d vote to contract that team in a heartbeat.

    Remove KC and remove a National League team. The quality of players would improve with 2 less teams and it would allow revenues to go to less teams (more for each team) who are actually willing to spend it on their roster.

    Remove 2 teams. Change the revenue sharing rules to encourage, or require, spending on rosters.

  211. UpState December 19th, 2010 at 11:18 am

    What about trying to work out a trade for some bullpen help from San Diego ?
    Realize its the NL West.
    Realize Hoyer probably would only want to help the Red Sox.

    Any thoughts on chance of getting any of these guys ?

    Worth it ?

    Mike Adams (32)
    Tim Stauffer (29)
    Joe Thatcher (29)
    Luke Gregerson (27)
    Ed Mujica (27)

  212. Mell December 19th, 2010 at 11:19 am

    “I didn’t know that. Does he has 5-10?rights requiring consent, i.e., extension, before he can be traded?”

    Good point. I believe he does.

  213. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 11:19 am

    # Rich in NJ December 19th, 2010 at 11:17 am

    I would definitely find out how short a deal Pavano would accept.
    ——————————————————————
    if healthy he’s better than 4-5 they have right now

  214. MaineYankee December 19th, 2010 at 11:20 am

    austinmac

    It’s to early to say that because we see no deal being done that he is doing nothing.

    Also we look at these deals differently because we have a limited amout of info to make our judgements on.

    To much behind the scenes stuff we aren’t privy to for us to make a judgement.

  215. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 11:20 am

    Crawling back to Pavano is worse than giving Arod 300 million dollars after opting out.

  216. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 11:22 am

    # joeman December 19th, 2010 at 11:19 am

    # Rich in NJ December 19th, 2010 at 11:17 am

    I would definitely find out how short a deal Pavano would accept.
    ——————————————————————
    if healthy he’s better than 4-5 they have right now
    ——————————————
    not asking to go get him but as stated above 4-5 stink

  217. Chip December 19th, 2010 at 11:22 am

    Rich in NJ December 19th, 2010 at 11:17 am
    I would definitely find out how short a deal Pavano would accept.

    ——————————-

    I would sooner try to coax Roger Clemens out of retirement than entertain the notion of bringing back Carl Pavano.

  218. G-C December 19th, 2010 at 11:24 am

    BD,

    The only reason I wouldn’t consider contracting a team like Kansas City is because of its history. A loss like that would be crushing to a middle-aged fan-base around my Dad’s age, people who remember the days in which George Brett and Kansas City were a competitive franchise. I think it would be cruel to penalize those people for ownership’s utter incompetence and unwillingness to win. But Kansas City is a perfect example of why the concept of revenue sharing puzzles me.

    You can bet though, if the MLB ever considered contraction, KC and Pittsburgh would probably be on the top of the list.

  219. Mike Ri December 19th, 2010 at 11:24 am

    This sucks !!

  220. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 11:24 am

    Bret-

    The bottom line is that no matter how we express ourselves or what our opinions may be we are all Yankee fans, and simply want the best for our team.

    Honorable people (not me) can disagree on any given day on how to go about accomplishing that.

    Nothin’ wrong with differences of opinion. Makes the world go round.

    As long as people maintain a civil discourse all will be good.

    That’s the key to me. I hope we all can keep it in the road.

    We’re pulling for the same thing in the end. #28, 29 …….. etc.

    :)

  221. mick December 19th, 2010 at 11:24 am

    At least there will be no more talk of Greinke’s sanity here…

  222. Yankee Trader December 19th, 2010 at 11:25 am

    The Yankees are good enough to stay in the race until the trade deadline. If Cashman can’t do anything then, maybe you can worry.
    ———————————————————–

    Still 2 starters [preferably another lefty-Pettitte] and 1 reliever [preferably set-up] short.

  223. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 11:25 am

    anyone have a list of FA SP left

  224. BD (Boston Dave) December 19th, 2010 at 11:25 am

    “Crawling back to Pavano is worse than giving Arod 300 million dollars after opting out.”

    ————-

    I agree.

    I don’t understand where this sense of desperation is coming from.

    I also agree with Randy. Try to get Andy back and we’re looking at perhaps a 95 win team that has a good chance to either win the AL East or take the wildcard.

    If there is one thing I liked about the Red Sox, it was their philosophy that their goal should be to make the playoffs. After that it’s back to square one. It doesn’t matter if you won 110 games or 90. It’s so hard to guarantee playoff wins that your goal should be to make the playoffs and hope to get hot at the right time.

    (obviously if your goal is to make the playoffs, you still need to have a pretty good team)

    I think the Yankees project to make the playoffs this season, right now. Any improvements would just strengthen that.

  225. Mike Ri December 19th, 2010 at 11:26 am

    Whats next

    Carpenter –
    Lowe
    Millwood
    Zambrano
    Pavano

  226. mick December 19th, 2010 at 11:27 am

    Looks Freddy Garcia is on the radar.
    Wasn’t Livan available?
    Didn’t some team sign El Duque to a minor league deal?
    How about Mussina…

  227. BD (Boston Dave) December 19th, 2010 at 11:27 am

    G-C,

    I find it hard to believe that the 1,000 remaining KC Royals fans wouldn’t get over it quickly.

    I’ve talked to sports fans in Pittsburgh and I couldn’t find any that cared one bit about the Pirates. They are Steelers and Penguins fans.

    I’d rather force ownership to invest in their teams, giving them one final chance to save themselves. But at the end of the day, it’s getting tired seeing a very small handful of teams with no interest in winning games.

  228. Yankee Trader December 19th, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Joeman-

    Best I could find for remaining SP’s:

    http://baseballmoves.com/pages.....chers.html

  229. Ruby Tuesday December 19th, 2010 at 11:28 am

    At the end of the 2011 season, it is becoming inevitable that the A.L. East standing would look like this –

    First Place: 2011 World Champion B*st*n R*d S*x
    Second Place: Toronto Blue Jays
    Third Place: Tampa Bay Rays
    Fourth Place: Our New York Yankees
    Fifth Place: Baltimore Orioles

  230. Steve Howe a True Yankee December 19th, 2010 at 11:32 am

    Seattle has no need to trade King Felix – NONE. They don’t need to shed payroll so the only reason to trade him would be to get better. Which means this deal would HAVE to involve Cano and probably Hughes.

  231. Joe from Long Island December 19th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    randy – yeah, you have to look at the competition.

    Tampa lost their entire pen. Lack of a reliable pen has traditionally been the Achilles heel with them. Add to that losing two big bats, and they have a big problem.

    Boston added a big bat in Gonzalez, no question. But there are real questions about how Crawford will play in Fenway, and in that lineup. Yes, they signed a couple BP arms, but those guys have notoriously been unreliable. There’s a reason why Chicago let Jenks get away, after all. And if Paps continues on his current trajectory? Where is it written that Beckett and Lackey are suddenly going to regain their forms from years ago?

    Yes, the Yanks need to have another reliable starter. Why can’t that be AJ? Who says that he’s going to put together two historically bad seasons in a row? And if he doens’t perform, why can’t someone else – Brackman, Nova, Noesi, Banuelos – step up?

  232. Bryan December 19th, 2010 at 11:34 am

    oh no Greinke gone to the Brewers

    Any more idiot trades from you people?

    King Felix? HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

  233. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    # Yankee Trader December 19th, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Joeman-

    Best I could find for remaining SP’s:

    http://baseballmoves.com/pages…..chers.html
    —————————————————————————-
    nothing there for me except Andy & a few guys that will get 200 + innings

  234. AldotheApache December 19th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    I can think of 40,000,000 reasons why Pavano will never, and SHOULD never, wear pinstripes ever again.

    For me, right and wrong trumps everything. I don’t believe in winning at all costs.

  235. spidanyc December 19th, 2010 at 11:41 am

    King Felix for Gary Sanchez, Nova, Nunez, Adams, Heathcott and Jose Ramirez.

    Justin Upton for Brackman, Swisher, Romine & Laird.

    Ethier, Kuo & Broxton for Granderson, Dave Robertson, Logan, JR Murphy, Phelps & DJ Mitchell.

    Carlos Zambrano for Burnett & Posada – wishful thinking

    Sign John Rauch.

    CF – Gardner
    SS – Jeter
    2B – Cano
    3B – Arod
    1B – Tex
    RF – Ethier
    DH – Montero
    LF – Upton
    C – Martin

    King Felix
    CC
    Hughes
    Petitte
    Zambrano

    Mo
    Broxton
    Kuo
    Joba
    Rauch
    Aceves

    Get on it Cashman!!

    Most importantly, we get to keep Montero, Banuelos and Betances!

  236. mick December 19th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Why not give Nova a shot?
    AJ is key anyway, if he doesn’t turn it around forget it…
    I would do AJ for Zambrano.

  237. Stoneburner December 19th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Scared for my Yankees – Onley asked a good question – what if C.C. opts out after 2011? And why wouldn’t he? The development of the pitchers on the farm is paramount if Cashman is going to hang on to them.

  238. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 11:43 am

    It’s far more likely that AJ and Nova fail than Beckett and Lackey. It’s far more likely that Lester + Buchholz are healthy over CC and Andy (because of Andy, not CC).

    So you mean to tell me the Sox have holes when our #2 starter (who’s not signed yet BTW) pitched 120 innings last year and is near 40 years old?

  239. tyanksfan36 December 19th, 2010 at 11:43 am

    Joe from Long Island

    I am as big a Rays hater out there as anyone but I don’t think they are going to be as bad off next season as we think. They have a full rotation and Hellickson just waiting around for a place to be. Yes their bullpen problem has and probably will lose a few more games for them but with a decent rotation in place they won’t be that bad off.
    I didn’t really read the rest of your post but I felt it important to bring up, if pitching is key then they are off to a good start.

  240. RhapsodyInBlue December 19th, 2010 at 11:44 am

    At least Greinke gets to witness the sausage race.

  241. mick December 19th, 2010 at 11:44 am

    who will pay him 23 per for 4 yrs?

  242. Stoneburner December 19th, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Yankees right now have either the third of fourth best rotation in the AL East AND
    are either 1 or 1A when it comes to batting lineup. Will that be enough for the division or the wildcard? If Pettitte comes back – Yanks probably are tied with the third best rotation in the division with the Sox – put the Jays and Rays ahead of both of us – Drabek is just amazing – same with Cecil and Romero – and Morrow – wow.

  243. Joe from Long Island December 19th, 2010 at 11:44 am

    CC was quoted the other day that he’s not opting out. Said he moved his family to NY/NJ and enrolled his kids in school here for a reason.

  244. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 11:44 am

    # mick December 19th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Why not give Nova a shot?
    AJ is key anyway, if he doesn’t turn it around forget it…
    I would do AJ for Zambrano.
    ———————————————–
    to me Nova would be a great long relief ..can’t touch him once around the order after that it’s feast time

  245. Ruby Tuesday December 19th, 2010 at 11:45 am

    I agree .

    L . o . l .

  246. Steve Howe a True Yankee December 19th, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Again. Seattle has no need to trade King Felix. Throwing a whole bunch of prospects at them makes no sense. That would be like them offering their #3, 4, 6, 10, 11 prospects for Cano. Why would we accept a trade like that ?

    Think, people !

  247. G. Love December 19th, 2010 at 11:45 am

    At this point the only plan is to get Andy to return, put Nova in the 5 hole and hope teams with good starting pitchers become sellers early enough next season so we can get some of them.

    I would not touch Derek Lowe for his age 38-39 seasons at 15 million a pop for 2 years.

    The Indians will ask for the moon for Carmona who is not worth it.

    You can sign Millwood but be prepared he will give up more than a hit per inning and get shelled most nights.

    Right now the starting pitching landscape is not good.

    And for the record if there were a real contigency plan it would have went into effect by now. There was no plan other than sign Lee. Cashman was bluffing.

    If Sergio Mitre is one of our starting 5 next spring it’s a complete indictment on this team’s front office and ownership for dropping the ball completely.

  248. Ruby Tuesday December 19th, 2010 at 11:46 am

    :(

  249. Stoneburner December 19th, 2010 at 11:47 am

    mick –

    easy – Phils could trade Oswalt – Rollins contract comes off the books as well as Ibanez – Phils go power deal – 5 years 25 million for C.C. – boom – they swap C.C. for Oswalt – just one scenario – how about the Angels get revenge – they NOW have way too much money to spend.

  250. YsGuy December 19th, 2010 at 11:47 am

    the yankees look like they will pick up no better than a #3 or 4 this offseason. But #1 looks great and pettitte and hughes are alredy middle rotation types so it’s really just a question of whether phil, andy OR aj can step up and pitch like a #2.
    If that’s what next year is going to be, i’m ok with it. I think hughes is about to bust out. This is a solid team that is going to the playoffs.
    then its anybody’s to win
    Im good with where we are right now.
    fill out the pitching depth and lets get it on!

  251. mick December 19th, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Don’t disagree about Nova in the pen. Mitre was serviceable a few years ago. The 5th starter should be our biggest problem. If it is, that means 1-4 are doing OK.

  252. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 11:48 am

    could Bonderman or Penny be a option…or is Mitre and Nova a better options

  253. YsGuy December 19th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    O and Let’s Go G-Men!

  254. BIG AL December 19th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Brewers gave up more than I would have wanted for Greinke.

    Zambrano looked like a different person and pitcher after his suspension, he may be worth the risk. The new PC could provide better input than anyone.

    MTU – I know the Z-Man is at the top of your no thank you list, but, sometimes you need to take risk to enjoy reward.

  255. Stoneburner December 19th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Steve Howe -

    While I agree with your overall premise – there is ONE incentive for the Mariners to do the trade – the Mariners are going NOWHERE!!! I mean that franchise is terribly run, their GM does not understand that ballpark and how to construct an offense, he made some atrocious deals (Morrow for League!!!!!!), Jack Zombie is good as your Mark Newman/Damon Openheimer guy – the guy who acquires prospects – this was his role under Doug Melvin with the Brewers – but he s&cks as a GM.

  256. jacksquat December 19th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Jerkface December 19th, 2010 at 10:32 am
    Escobar is a tremendous young player who hasn’t even scratched the surface of what he’s going to be, making no money, playing a premium position and doing it at a high level in the majors – in other words – he’s way way better than Brett Gardner. And Cain is essentially their Jesus Montero, but there’s no question that Cain can play CF.

    This is hogwash Chip, in a full season Escobar hit .235 .288 .326 .614, thats ‘doing it at a high level’????? He is Eduardo Nunez with a better glove. His career minor league line is .293 .333 .377 .709. He has zero plate discipline, he strikes out more than 10% of the time, and he has no power.

    The yankees absolutely could have matched this deal. Cain is Brett Gardner, he is not ‘jesus Montero’

    Cain is .291 .366 .416 .781 in the minors.
    gardner is .289 .389 .383 .772 in the minors.

    They both hit about the same at AAA.

    And the other pitcher is a relief guy who is erratic and has failed 3 drug tests, and the other is in A ball.

    Yankees could have smashed this trade.

    Why do you think the Royals are perpetually in last place? Because they are dumb. They probably think #1/3 prospect on one team equals #1/3 prospect on any other team. Which of course is not the case.

    Tools are nice, but eventually you have to put up numbers or go home.

    Anyway, I think the Yankees weren’t really all that interested.

    And I like the recent strategy of paying well for free agents they really want (of course, they don’t *always* get them), and not getting raped when trading minor leaguers.

  257. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 11:50 am

    G. Love,

    Cashman was definitely bluffing and GM’s across the league see him for the weasel that he tried to be and the weasel that he is.

  258. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    # BIG AL December 19th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Brewers gave up more than I would have wanted for Greinke.

    Zambrano looked like a different person and pitcher after his suspension, he may be worth the risk. The new PC could provide better input than anyone.

    MTU – I know the Z-Man is at the top of your no thank you list, but, sometimes you need to take risk to enjoy reward.
    ——————————————————————–
    agree there wasn’t a better SP in the majors the last month of the 10 season

  259. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Al-

    Me. Afraid to take some risk ?

    Get me Marmolade thrown in with Z and I’ll take it.

    That, and keepin’ that cattle prod handy for the off times.

    Seriously, you may be right. The Z man can still pitch when he keeps his head screwed on tight.

    Can he ?

    :)

  260. mick December 19th, 2010 at 11:53 am

    How does anyone know if Seattle was bluffing us and that Lee would have eventually turned down a deal to NY, didn’t he have a NTC?

  261. Fran the original December 19th, 2010 at 11:53 am

    IMO AJ is the key. If he can turn it around, the Yanks will have a #2 starter behind CC.

  262. Stoneburner December 19th, 2010 at 11:53 am

    I would have Mitre as the long man out of the pen/emergency starter under any situation.

    The best case scenario at this point is of course Andy coming back and then letting the likes of Nova, Noesi (on the 40 man now), Phelps, Mitre, and this years Mosely battle it out for the 5th spot – with a prearranged preference for a young prospect to take the 5th spot (i.e. Hughes in 2010 ST).

    If Andy does not come back, and if the Yanks do not see there is a pitcher worth making a trade for, I suppose it is go after the Pennys, Bondermans, Garcias, invite them to ST and have them battle with the above named crew for the no. 5 spot and have both sets battle it out for the nos. 4 and 5 spots.

  263. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    MTU December 19th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Al-

    Me. Afraid to take some risk ?

    Get me Marmolade thrown in with Z and I’ll take it.

    That, and keepin’ that cattle prod handy for the off times.

    Seriously, you may be right. The Z man can still pitch when he keeps his head screwed on tight.

    Can he ?
    —————————————–
    get those two and they get back to being the favorites to win the ALP

  264. BIG AL December 19th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Mike -

    That may be a good question for many of us here, lol.

    Got to run, be back in a bit.

  265. Stoneburner December 19th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    mick,

    no NTC – if so – Lee would have blocked that trade from Philly to Seattle. And Lee and his wife were already talking with the Sabathia’s – remember – the Yankees were in Seattle that fateful Friday when the deal collapsed.

  266. Tar December 19th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    it’s very possible that KC’s offer was second best, and Greinke was the one who nixed the deal to the Yankees.

    What is up with B. Webb?

  267. mick December 19th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    I don’t see why some can’t get their heads around an AJ for Zambrano deal.
    I’m sure it’s crossed the Cash mans mind, addition by subtraction.

    The 1st time AJ screws up, all in here will be calling for his head. I say off with his head, now rather than later.

  268. jacksquat December 19th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 11:43 am
    It’s far more likely that AJ and Nova fail than Beckett and Lackey. It’s far more likely that Lester + Buchholz are healthy over CC and Andy (because of Andy, not CC).

    So you mean to tell me the Sox have holes when our #2 starter (who’s not signed yet BTW) pitched 120 innings last year and is near 40 years old?

    Hughes is our #2. Hughes vs. Buchholz, I’ll take it. The Yankees may not slot him #2, but he effectively is, I think. Or they may slot him there, because they don’t like putting lefties back to back (although they would have with Lee, obviously).

    CC
    Hughes
    Pettitte
    Burnett
    ?

    I’d like to get someone proven decent/reliable in case Burnett pitches like a 5+ again.

  269. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Fran,

    After Lester and Buchholz we’re banking on Lackey not being a mid-rotation starter and Beckett not being a #4 due to injury.

    They’re banking on AJ not being a #2 behind CC or 40 year old Pettitte not being a #2 because he might not be good for more than 120 IP’s at this point.

    It sucks but it really seems like your money is safer in the Bank of Boston.

  270. mick December 19th, 2010 at 11:57 am

    I still think Lee thinks he will get another contract sooner at age 35-36 with this deal.
    At age 39 with ours , he’s locked in to one last deal.
    He is not as stupid as some think.

  271. Stoneburner December 19th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    There are many keys – some more certain than others:

    (1) First and foremost – is C.C.’s knee okay? Probably yes – BUT you never know

    (2) Can Phil develop the change further? This is the guy they are hedging their bets to not only be another 18 game winner – but IMPROVE – a little worried

    (3) Burnett – Can he revert to 2009 A.J.?

    (4) Will Andy come back?

    (5) If no Andy – then who for the nos. 4 & 5?

    A bunch of question marks for the starting rotation – really the most important part of the team if the Yanks want to contend and continue to have sellouts and revenue streams and ratings to continue to fund the 200 million dollar payroll

  272. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    # mick December 19th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    I don’t see why some can’t get their heads around an AJ for Zambrano deal.
    I’m sure it’s crossed the Cash mans mind, addition by subtraction.

    The 1st time AJ screws up, all in here will be calling for his head. I say off with his head, now rather than later.
    —————————————————
    I still have faith in AJ just because when he’s good he’s really good….but if I was offered Big Z straight up for AJ right now I’m doing it

  273. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 11:59 am

    I’m sorry but I don’t trust AJ as far as I can cast a fishing line (which ain’t far).

    Can’t rely only that. He may throw up some better numbers or he may continue to implode.

    No way to run an airline IMO. No one knows what they’re gonna get
    in advance.

    Not even AJ. Even though I hope he pulls it together doesn’t mean it’s worth counting on.

    For the time being he is part of the landscape but that could change
    if he doesn’t perform.

  274. Tar December 19th, 2010 at 11:59 am

    “He is not as stupid as some think”

    Mick

    He choose Philly over the Yankees, I would say he’s stupid.

  275. Stoneburner December 19th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Yanks were never real in on KC – not sure if Yanks made an offer – at least per Heyman – which is NOT saying much

  276. MTU December 19th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    OK. Time to pack it up for now.

    Catch you all later.

  277. Fran the original December 19th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    Bret,

    Even if Andy comes back, I am not sure I see him as a #2. I guess Hughes is #2 and AJ still a question mark.

    The Yankees rotation is unsettled right now IMO but Cshman still has time before the season starts.

    And the bullpen still needs an EIG.

  278. Tar December 19th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    Mick
    In all fairness he probably knows the difference between choose and chose. :D

  279. Stoneburner December 19th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    I still suspect/guess that Andy’s coming back – and IF so – we are BACK. This would allow time to grow a no. 5 starter – and in such a role – we could see either Nova or Noesi develop this year – which in the long run would be huge. I also think Warren is a trade chip or turns into a reliever – not sure if he has that third pitch – of course – some could say the same thing with Hughes – but does not have the command of Hughes or the confidence – we shall see – come back Andy!!

  280. Carlo December 19th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Ladies/Gentleman – I hate the sox as much as anyone possibly could, but to sit here and pretend that our rotation stacks up with theirs is foolish. 1-5, they are better. Even with pettitte returning, if he does, they are still better. Dice K is their #5. He is our AJ. AJ is not our #5 nor will he be even if Andy returns.

  281. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Mick

    He choose Philly over the Yankees, I would say he’s stupid.
    =======================================
    Most fans would. I disagree. He thinks the Phillies are a better team and is prob. a Yankee hater.

  282. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    I think Cash likes the AJ-Zambrano deal as it is cost effective. They bothe are untradeable ‘cept for each other, a match made in heaven.

  283. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    The difference is the Sox #2 pitched like an ace and Hughes (if he becomes defacto #2) pitched like a mid rotation guy. If he continues his second half trend, he stays a mid rotation guy or even drops down to a bottom rotation pitcher.

  284. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Go get the Big Z & that RP that throws gas….start with AJ but it will be tough to pry that RP away from them

  285. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    The Cubs would be looking to dump Zambrano’s salary so why would they take on AJ’s? Plus, if it’s a salary swap instead of a salary dump, no way you get Marmol in that deal (probably no way you get Marmol regardless).

  286. YsGuy December 19th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    please, no zambrano, he’s just got too much joaquin andujar for me.
    remember there will be pitchers in play all next season too. if theres nothing good out there, going into ST with what we have might allow a young arm to step up and establish themselves as a #5, with the yankees offense, this is not crazy. Everybody will know that the yankees are in play for whatever top notch starter comes into play and the yankees get another half season to watch thier prospects.
    just, please no zambrano!

  287. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Everyone who trusts AJ needs help.
    Z for AJ is a no brainer.
    The guy just wants to win, don’t know what AJ wants…

  288. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    1-5 SP

    CC
    Big Z
    Hughes
    Andy
    Bonderman

  289. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Mick,

    It’s definitely a no-brainer for us which is why the Cubs won’t do it. They want a salary dump, not a salary swap.

  290. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    joeman thats interesting….is bonderman better than mitre?

  291. Mike Ri December 19th, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    We need pitching . .Whats the point of Trading AJ for Big Z . . we are NOT gaining a pticher ..

  292. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    bret

    we can chip in a few bucks each on the blog to offset AJ’s salary, Cash could do a million or so…

  293. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    . we are NOT gaining a pticher ..
    ===================
    But we are adding by subtracting, get it?

  294. Mike Ri December 19th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    I also agree with Carlo .. the Sox have better pitching !.. Period . .. We can sit and go crazy . .But lets face facts . . . The calvary isn’t coming

  295. G-C December 19th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    “The difference is the Sox #2 pitched like an ace and Hughes (if he becomes defacto #2) pitched like a mid rotation guy. If he continues his second half trend, he stays a mid rotation guy or even drops down to a bottom rotation pitcher.”

    Buchholz didn’t pitch like an ace.

    He pitched like a nice middle of the rotation starter and was extraordinarily lucky to put up the final ERA that he did. If he pitches the way he did last year this year, I’m almost certain his ERA will be a lot closer to 4.50 than it will to 2.50.

  296. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Mick,

    I see what you’re saying but in this pitching market the Cubs should be able to move Zambrano’s entire contract, or close to it.

    Taking back AJ defeats the purpose for them.

  297. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Beckett and Lackey are shells of their former selves.

  298. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    bret

    aj and z are personna non gratas….no team wants them or their salaries….they can only be traded for each other

  299. Mike Ri December 19th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Mick . . Unlike some on here. . I still believe in AJ !!.. You trading one “headcase” for another . It doesn’t make this team better . . .

  300. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    If the Sox beat us out for a playoff spot, nobody will care or remember what they pay Beckett and Lackey. You take those 2 guys over Nova and Mitre.

  301. Mike Ri December 19th, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    -your

  302. G-C December 19th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    For what its worth, Red Sox executive Bill James is projecting Hughes to have a 3.56 ERA next year and Buchholz to have a 3.54 ERA.

    I’d say that’s a pretty good indication of what the realities of that comparison are.

    Buchholz has the killer curve and change, Hughes has the better fastball and fastball command.

  303. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    mike

    how can you say you believe in him with a straight face? ur kidding right?

  304. Mike Ri December 19th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Mick . .he had a HORRIBLE year .. But i’m thinking he can’t be that worse again . . no way.

  305. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    1-0 Boston top of the 4th Youk is up after hitting a HR his 1st time up, Big Z(Yankee) is on the mound ..0-2 count on Youk after after hitting hard two foul balls

  306. Triple Short of a Cycle December 19th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    G-C,

    He also predicted Chris Davis would have a monster year 2 years ago.

  307. Carlo December 19th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    Mick – no, I don’t trust AJ, but this team needs to stockpile pitching and addition by subtraction simply does not do that. In a salary dumb, we get zambrano for virtually no prospects, just cash. Burnett has the ability to be a #2 in the AL East. He proved that in 2009 and in his final year in toronto, 2008. We don’t know is Zambrano can do that but we can be confident he can be a viable 4/5 starter and pitch at a higher level than Nova and or Mitre. That’s additive. Losing Burnett for an equally questionable NL Central starter is not going to make us better.

  308. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    get him out of the AL….he will own us if he gets traded here….give him up, i say….1-2 bad outings and he’s done for the season…..do it now Cash!

  309. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    Mick,

    If the Cubs determine that they can’t move Zambrano’s contract then maybe AJ + cash makes more sense to them as a last resort.

    Again, I agree it’s a no brainer because like you said, Zambrano is a fierce competitor and AJ seems like he’s still trying to figure out his mission in baseball.

    Plus Zambrano’s due 2 more years and AJ is due 3 more.

    It’d be nice to get out from under that extra year.

    I still see the same rotation next year with maybe Zambrano taking Javy’s slot which to me is pure win. I’d try to get Marmol in that deal if the Cubs only vehicle to move Zambrano’s contract turns out to be the Yankees.

  310. Doreen December 19th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    YankeeRay -

    If you are still here (I’m taking a cookie baking break, myself), I think it probably is something the Yankees ought to think about – doing in-season extensions.

    Also, amp up scouting and development as much as possible.

    No one likes to “help” the Yankees.

    Teams obviously have money these days and are, as much as possible, keeping their own best players.

    And, tying in with my point about not wanting to help the Yankees, there is a lot more parity in MLB, and more teams are in contention for a longer period of time during a season and are not readily partying with players – in fact, they’re trying to upgrade at the TD, as well.

    The Yankees are going to have to become as self-sufficient as possible over the next several years.

  311. Carlo December 19th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Joeman – u grab those motherf’s up at mohegan yday?

  312. ZMAN December 19th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Bill James has optimistic predictions for everyone. He predicts Montero to have a higher wOBA than Cano.

  313. Dee December 19th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    I don’t like this Zambrano talk…give me Dempster, then I’ll be okay.

  314. randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    “please, no zambrano, he’s just got too much joaquin andujar for me.”

    ysguy-

    reputations take on a life of their own in baseball.

    andujar used to knock on my door at 7 am when i was a bullpen catcher on the team he was on to go do extra work. no one worked harder than andujar preparing from what i saw .
    i also saw how other star type players reacted to him.he was treated with a huge amount of respect as a player.

    maybe zambrano is a bad fit for the yankees , but on the on the other hand maybe his reputation is worse than he actually is.

  315. G-C December 19th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    I don’t like the AJ for Zambrano idea.

    People keep trumping up Zambrano as a “fierce competitor,” but you could very well frame that differently and say he’s an emotional wreck just as prone to major mound meltdowns as AJ is, with the added bonus of tossed water coolers or wall punching.

    I don’t buy that Burnett isn’t a competitor. He’s proven he can pitch in big games here. To me, the most impressive thing he’s done was come out and pitch the way he did on 17 days rest in Game Four this past year. I know he lost, and I know he was at fault for that pitch to Molina, but he should have never been given an opportunity to throw that pitch in the first place. He came out intense and focused and really set the tone for the game right from the get go. For a guy who went 10-15 with an ERA in the mid-fives, coming into a big playoff game with that amount of confidence and swagger, and making good on it, was really impressive.

  316. CB December 19th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    The Greinke deal is an extremely poor one for the Roayls. Very surprised to see this. Great, great job by Melvin.

    This deal was probably driven by a few factors. First and foremost was Greinke’s no trade clause. The reported deal with the Nats was better for KC.

    But this also looks like a GM in Moore who was trading for “need” completely over trading for talent.

    Escobar was horrendous at the plate last season. Everyone knew he was going to be a light hitter but he looked even worse than anticipated.

    Cain is nothing particular special.

    Jake Ordorizzi is a good prospect but again not a big difference maker.

    Jeffress has a great arm. Huge arm but he looks more and more like a reliever and is close to being kicked out of baseball for drug violations.

    Betancourt – well Moore’s drive to continue to collect some of the worst players in the game continues. He’s horrible.

    Not a good deal from the KC perspective. Moore’s a strange fellow but I’d have to think Greinke’s no trade had influence here.

    Many, many teams could have topped that offer though.

  317. Carlo December 19th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Dee – don’t be concerned, every pitcher we discuss ad nauseum here ends up signing or being traded elsewhere. Think of these convos as an indication that zambrano will never be a yankee.

  318. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Baseball needs to have the Yankees be good year in and year out……I believe they were the best draw in the majors on the road…they filled up ball parks that weren’t drawing when they came in …TV needs them to be good also………….

    lets go Cash make some moves

  319. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
    “please, no zambrano, he’s just got too much joaquin andujar for me.”

    ysguy-

    reputations take on a life of their own in baseball.

    andujar used to knock on my door at 7 am when i was a bullpen catcher on the team he was on to go do extra work. no one worked harder than andujar preparing from what i saw .
    i also saw how other star type players reacted to him.he was treated with a huge amount of respect as a player.

    maybe zambrano is a bad fit for the yankees , but on the on the other hand maybe his reputation is worse than he actually is.

  320. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    If the Cubs determine that they can’t move Zambrano’s contract then maybe AJ + cash makes more sense to them as a last resort.
    ================================================
    Getting rid of AJ is job 1….you are right, no team will take either contract, they are only tradeable for each other, people have short memories, AJ is questioned as a pitcher, Zambrano is not. One implodes, the other explodes, supposedly because he wants to win badly….it’s a no brainer to me.

  321. ZMAN December 19th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    Our Plan B is now relying on Burnett to become a #2? Yikes.

  322. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    randy l. December 19th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
    “please, no zambrano, he’s just got too much joaquin andujar for me.”

    ysguy-

    reputations take on a life of their own in baseball.

    andujar used to knock on my door at 7 am when i was a bullpen catcher on the team he was on to go do extra work. no one worked harder than andujar preparing from what i saw .
    i also saw how other star type players reacted to him.he was treated with a huge amount of respect as a player.

    maybe zambrano is a bad fit for the yankees , but on the on the other hand maybe his reputation is worse than he actually is.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Besides…who besides Joaquin Andujar can describe baseball in two words: “You never know.”?

  323. Bret The Hitman December 19th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    new post
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  324. joeman December 19th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    # Carlo December 19th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Joeman – u grab those motherf’s up at mohegan yday?
    ——————————————-
    won 6 hung….nice relaxing day played Let It Ride and hit a couple of big hands, also hit my 26 black…

  325. Doreen December 19th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    I don’t recall Zambrano being a “problem” until the last 2 years or so. Did anything happen in particular, or was I just not as tuned in to him before that?

  326. GreenBeret7 December 19th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Doreen, could the fact that he has the same personality as Lou Piniella have anything to do with it?

  327. Carlo December 19th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Joeman – attaboy. First time I played let it ride was about 10 years ago. Hit two full houses in an hour session and thought it was like stealing money from the house. Haven’t had a winning session since.

  328. mick December 19th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Playing for the Yankees would calm down Zambrano .

  329. clownthrowindown December 19th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Doreen,

    That’s a good point. And if they expand the playoffs there will be even fewer teams unloading players at the deadline.

  330. YsGuy December 19th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    grienke with his ‘condition’…
    zambrano, the headcase…
    next we’ll be weighing what we can get out of ollie perez.

    maybe the sox do have a better rotation, maybe not.
    other pitchers will become available during next season and we’ll be in the best position to put together a package to get what we need.

    in the meantime, lets see what we have. hughes might be ready to step up again. maybe montero sends martin to the bench and we decide he’s too good to give up.
    im good with our team even before it gets filled out.

    o and come back andy, we need you again!

  331. 86w183 December 19th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Never expected Grienke to end up with the Yanks. Would still like to see them look into Zambrano and Carmona. Carmona would cost more in players/prospects. Zambrano would cost more in salary.

    I expect a Pettite decision this week. Of courser I’ve said around Christmas all along… based on nothing but a hunch.

  332. brianlopez22 December 19th, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Reading these comments, peopl get dumber and dumber.

    Does anyone think Seattle will give up King Felix without getting Montero, Betances, and Banuelos? They have him locked up for a long time.

    AJ for Zambrano is just stupid. There is one pitcher in baseball who is a bigger headcase than AJ, its Zambrano. Additionally, this trade would not save the Cubs any money, that would be the benefit to the Cubs.

    Bottom line, the “smartest” and most available pitcher is Josh Johnson from the Marlins. King Felix has a no-trade clause against the Yankees.
    Again, this would most definitely cost us Jesus Montero and Betances or Banuelos.
    So are we willing to part with 2 top 10 prospects for Josh Johnson?

    If Andy comes back, this team is good enough to win the wildcard.
    We can hope that Lackey and Beckett continue their history and get hurt.

  333. Chuck58 December 19th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    “brianlopez22 December 19th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
    Reading these comments, peopl get dumber and dumber.”

    They sure do.

  334. NYY fan in NH December 19th, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Not a good time for being a fan of NY teams. Just an awful game for the Giants today. Coughlin should be fired! To give up 28 pts in the 4th quarter with like 10 minutes left is unbelieveable. The Jets on the other hand, are gave up an opening 2nd half TD. This could bump them out of the Wild Card with a loss.

  335. Don December 19th, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    I would love to see Montero in the Bronx this year.

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