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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Kearns lands back in Cleveland

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 20, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

ph_400290His stint in New York was rather forgettable, but Austin Kearns turned an otherwise solid 2010 into a $1.3-million deal with the Indians.

One year ago, Kearns had to settle for a minor league deal. Cleveland invited him to big league camp, he made the team and he hit .272/.354/.419 before a deadline deal to the Yankees, who gave up Zach McAllister for the rental. With the Yankees, he hit for no power and only a .235 average.

The Yankees need a right-handed reserve outfielder, but after his stint last season, it would have been hard to see the Yankees bringing Kearns back.

Speaking of not coming back: Chan Ho Park has agreed to a deal with the Orix Buffaloes. Try to contain your disappointment.

 
 

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285 Responses to “Kearns lands back in Cleveland”

  1. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Austin Kearns —- > Easy Strikeout

  2. Erin December 20th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    His stint in New York was rather forgettable

    *************************
    Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. ;)

  3. jacksquat December 20th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Ok Bret, continue on with your fantasy…

  4. CountryClub December 20th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    JackCurryYES
    Yankee official said they weren’t “willing to take a chance” on Greinke. Royals targeted Montero, Nunez & 2 pitchers, as @SI JonHeyman noted

  5. blake December 20th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Source: The Indians needed midge control and are hoping Kearns will help fan them away#createsanicebreezewithswings.

  6. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    blake December 20th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Call the Marlins and offer a package around Montero and Betances for Johnson. That’s more likely than Felix. They probably wouldn’t trade him but I think they’d be more likely to than Seattle. If they say no then plan B engages……oh right….ok then there’s always Freddy Garcia….

    ********

    With Buck and Gaby Sanchez, the Marlins probably don’t value Jesus Montero as highly as the Mariners.

    Just sayin’

  7. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Jacksquat,

    And you continue on with your delusions as well :)

  8. ConcernedCitizen December 20th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Wow, I totally forgot about Kearns. Good riddance.

  9. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    Yankee official said they weren?t ?willing to take a chance? on Greinke. Royals targeted Montero, Nunez & 2 pitchers, as @SI JonHeyman noted

    What joke . . Thats right Cashman . . WHY take a chance on a former CY YOUNG award winner thats 26 yearsold

    BUT >> .lets request Freddy Garcias medical records !! . . .

    ITS SAD !!!!!

  10. blake December 20th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    Bret,
    Montero is about the bat more than anything. They would find a place for him to play. Im not saying they’d do it but Id certainly ask.

  11. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    I want to live to see the day when Montero is no longer the subject of trade rumors and is an entrenched part of the Yankees.

    Fifteen or so years ago, if some Yankees fans had the same mind, Jeter would have been traded.

    Now people are offended that some people think he should only be overpaid rather than vastly overpaid during his probable decline phase.

  12. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Blake,

    Where?

    The Mariners have far more openings on their skeleton roster and their offense finished dead last in every single category.

  13. Giuseppe Franco December 20th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    You trade Hughes and they still need someone to fill his spot and make 30+ starts for this team.

    The Yanks have won 5 rings and seven pennants over the past 16 years without the so called best pitcher in baseball/

    They did it with depth – not because they had the top 1-2 punch.

    You have to make the playoffs first before you worry about who pitches Games 1 and 2 of the ALDS.

  14. blake December 20th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Rich,

    Not going to happen until they bring him up and let him play…..looks like it might not happen initially this year either…im.hoping he gives them no choice in ST as Heyward did with the Braves last year.

  15. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Um…CC + King Felix + Yankees offense = playoffs.

  16. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    KC asks for Montero and Nunez and two pitchers?

    That is flat out robbery, especially considering the light haul KC wound up with.
    I wouldn’t trade Montero straight up for Grienke much less adding 3 other pieces.

    If I’m Cashman I’d have told the KC GM to get lost, and to have fun in last place.

    What a joke.

  17. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    blake

    Have you read this?

    http://www.pinstripedbible.com.....mythology/

    I think it’s spot on.

  18. Tom in N.J. December 20th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    “I want to live to see the day when Montero is no longer the subject of trade rumors and is an entrenched part of the Yankees.”

    I wholeheartedly agree.

  19. Joe from Long Island December 20th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    GF – Just want to say hi. Christmas/New Year’s plans coming along? (If that’s what you celebrate.)

  20. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Bret ….

    Are you saying a staff headed by CC and King Felix backed by this offense would miss the playoffs? If so, you’d be an even worse GM.

    No, that’s not what I said. You are not fixing any problems with the rotation by trading away a starter. Like every other trade offer you’ve proposed for the last month, you are filling a hole by digging up the dirt next to it.

    Yes, CC and Felix would be great as #1 and #2, you know what wouldn’t be great? You still end up with Mitre/Nova in the rotation, because you didn’t fill that hole with anything.

    Felix is not going anywhere this year, he only makes $10mil in 2011. After next season when his salary bumps to $18mil, they may consider moving him.

    Now? Not a chance.

  21. austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    The obvious issue with Montero is the glove. You can deal with a relatively poor fielder at some positions but not catcher. A poor catcher will cost more runs than a bat can contribute.

    We shall see about Montero. All projections, for good or bad, are speculative. DH doesn’t really work for him on a long term basis due to the needs of others to do that. He looked okay in the few innings I have seen him. He better be.

  22. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Yankee 21 –

    KC asks for Montero and Nunez and two pitchers?

    -

    I know because the light hitting Nunez is the second coming of Cal Ripken ! Please

  23. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    CC-King Felix-Pettitte-AJ-Garcia

  24. heyman_sux December 20th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    ugh, now i know you’re crazy. advocating for freddy garcia in the rotation? nuts

  25. Giuseppe Franco December 20th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    # Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Um…CC + King Felix + Yankees offense = playoffs.

    ———–

    You mean that Yankee offense that you keep crying about that Cashman needs to improve – or else?

    Um, you still need 3 other guys to pitch the other 60% of their games – in the toughest division in baseball, no less.

    And one of them is going to be AJ Burnett, who wasn’t exactly a rock solid contributor to their cause in 2010.

  26. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Garcia won 12 games you lunatic.

  27. blake December 20th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Rich,

    It is spot on. In baseball you learn by doing. Im hoping they get him to NY soon if he doesn’t start the season there.

  28. heyman_sux December 20th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Aaron small won 11. You want him too?

  29. BJK December 20th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
    Yankee official said they weren?t ?willing to take a chance? on Greinke. Royals targeted Montero, Nunez & 2 pitchers, as @SI JonHeyman noted

    What joke . . Thats right Cashman . . WHY take a chance on a former CY YOUNG award winner thats 26 yearsold

    BUT >> .lets request Freddy Garcias medical records !! . . .

    ITS SAD !!!!!

    ————————————————————————————————-

    1) Keyword is former. 2010 does not look like 2009. Greinke has yet to be elite in back to back years.
    2) He is 27 years old.
    3) Freddy Garcia doesn’t cost the #1 hitting prospect in baseball plus a lot more.

  30. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    Alright I’m leaving for the day to prepare for my holiday trip home. Don’t talk about Pedro Feliciano and Jerry Hairston while I’m gone…I’d hate to miss out on something important.

  31. Joe from Long Island December 20th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    Bret – that doesn’t work for me. How about CC-Felix-Hughes-Pettitte-AJ.

    If we’re going to fantasize, why not go all out? :)

  32. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    For people that have actually seen Montero, vs. the ones in the media that have paroted so called scouting reports, all indications are he is at least a passable catcher, with every indication he will and can improve.

    Now, will he ever be a Carlos Ruiz, a Yadier Molina, etc… hell no.

    But think what catching NYY had last year, aside from BOS, arguably the worst in the game with space case Posada and an erratic Cervelli, I don’t think Montero has a big leap to make to match that joke of a catching tandem.

  33. Giuseppe Franco December 20th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    # Joe from Long Island December 20th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    GF – Just want to say hi. Christmas/New Year’s plans coming along? (If that’s what you celebrate.)

    ————

    Hey, Joe. Hope all is well with you and yours during the holidays.

    Not a big holiday guy myself, but at least this holiday season beats last year. Spent the entire holiday season last year bedridden and away from home.

    These days, I couldn’t be feeling better.

  34. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    # Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Garcia won 12 games you lunatic.
    ——————————————

    Like I said earlier today…..in 5 of his starts, Garcia did not record an out in the 4th inning. He lost all 5 games. Outside of these 5 implosions he was 12-1 with a 3.33 ERA in the other starts. He is not as putrid as people are making him out to be.

  35. joeman December 20th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Happy Holidays to Joe Franco,Big Al & GB…I’m a changed man…l

  36. CountryClub December 20th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    WOW:

    So heading into spring training, Cashman said the Yankees would try to cull two starters from a young crop that includes Ivan Nova, who is virtually assured a spot in the 2011 rotation, as well as right-handers Andrew Brackman, Dellin Betances, Adam Warren, Hector Noesi and left-hander Manny Banuelos.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-.....id=5938789

  37. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    BJK –

    1 -Greinke is still a top 10 pitcher
    2- He’s 27 – im sorry I was off a year. .he’s still YOUNG and coming into his prime
    3- Freddy Garcia SUCKS !! WE all know it ! .

  38. clownthrowindown December 20th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Yes. Cashman should sound much more desperate in his press conferences. “I’ll upgrade the rotation no matter what the cost so help me” would be much more becoming of a GM of a billion dollar franchise
    ————————————————————————————————

    Maybe Pettitte already told Cashman that he is retiring and they are holding off on announcing it.

    Teams would have even more leverage if they knew Cashman had only two quality starters and was at risk of flushing $200M down the drain next season without their guy.

  39. Erin December 20th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    JackCurryYES If Pettitte stays retired, Cashman planning to fill out the rotation from within. The Yankees have low interest in Garcia, Millwood-types

  40. Erin December 20th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    JackCurryYES Brian Cashman said Andy Pettitte is still leaning toward retirement. “In a month, maybe that changes,” Cashman said.

  41. Joe from Long Island December 20th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    GF – that sounds like something to celebrate, right there. I’ll help you out, and have one for you tonight (not on-call).

  42. CountryClub December 20th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    from same article:

    Cashman also ruled out, although not absolutely, the possibility the Yankees might include catching prospect Jesus Montero in a trade for a front-line starter now that the Yankees have signed Russell Martin to assume every-day catching duties. “There’s just nobody out there I would consider trading Montero for,” Cashman said.

    Asked if that included Seattle Mariners ace Felix Hernandez, Cashman said, “That ain’t happening.”

    “In the past, we might have gone out and traded away prospects just to get someone in here,” Cashman said. “But realistically, I have until July to get this solved.”

  43. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    # joeman December 20th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Happy Holidays to Joe Franco,Big Al & GB…I’m a changed man…l

    ———————————-

    wow – you forgetting anyone on that list? how about the man who as of yesterday, spurred your change?

  44. joeman December 20th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
    # joeman December 20th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Happy Holidays to Joe Franco,Big Al & GB…I’m a changed man…l

    ———————————-

    wow – you forgetting anyone on that list? how about the man who as of yesterday, spurred your change
    ——————————————–
    and to you too Buddy…the person that changed me

  45. Bad Scooter December 20th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Greinke has had one amazing, phenomenal season and a few good years. He’ll never approach that 2009 season again.

  46. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    JackCurryYES If Pettitte stays retired, Cashman planning to fill out the rotation from within. The Yankees have low interest in Garcia, Millwood-types

    —-

    Boy this off-season . .just keeps getting better !

  47. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    # joeman December 20th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
    # joeman December 20th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Happy Holidays to Joe Franco,Big Al & GB…I’m a changed man…l

    ———————————-

    wow – you forgetting anyone on that list? how about the man who as of yesterday, spurred your change
    ——————————————–
    and to you too Buddy…the person that changed me

    ————————————–

    Hahaha. Happy holidays to you my man.

  48. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Bad Scooter
    Greinke has had one amazing, phenomenal season and a few good years. He?ll never approach that 2009 season again.

    And you know this because . ??? but let me guess. .Jeter will hit .350 and 40 homeruns . .right ?? or Ivan Nova .. will win 19 games

  49. joeman December 20th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    I said a while back that Andy would retire…hope I’m wrong

  50. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    I’m not saying Andy is about the money, but the Yankees have disrespected him with money in the past, at least from his p.o.v. It’s probably going to take a little more money to get it done this time.

  51. ConcernedCitizen December 20th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    I was really hoping we’d have one more year with the Core Four, and one more shot. Sad that Andy is seriously considering retirement. On the other hand, he could just be waiting until after the Holidays to make the decision.

  52. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Mike Ri – That’s pretty unfair, one absurdity does not preclude another.

  53. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Greinke is gone. No reason to discuss him. Ship has sailed. Just like Lee.

    The newest Yankee problem is Pettitte.

    Should Andy decide to retire…….I believe this team will struggle to make the playoffs and we could be looking at a 2008 repeat again.

    Failure to make the playoffs and be the team we are used to being could cause serious fallout…….the worst of it would be CC opting out and gauging us for a gold vault instead of the remaining $96 mm on his deal after this season.

    That said, i remain optimistic that andy returns.

  54. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    I think NYY has waited on Andy long enough. Got to give him a call and ask for his decision, straight out. And then NY deals with it if it is a no.

    For the most part, Andy and NYY has had a good relationship, need an up or down vote here.

    And if he does say no, ask Andy if he can keep that to himself for at least another month or so…

  55. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    I think NYY has waited on Andy long enough. Got to give him a call and ask for his decision, straight out. And then NY deals with it if it is a no.

    —————————————

    I think we already have that answer. If they call and do what you are suggesting, Andy is done. That seems pretty clear. The waiting is the chance he changes his mind.

  56. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Rich in NJ,

    Assuming you’re right, how high would you go with Andy, salary wise?

  57. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    carlo; perhaps. perhaps not.

  58. Joe from Long Island December 20th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    yankee21 – along the lines of your 12:57 post – I wouldn’t be shocked if that were indeed the case. That Andy has told that to Cash, and Cash is now trying to create the perception that he’s not hungry for a proven starter.

    Not that I’m predicting that Andy is done, just saying I think that’s what would happen should he tell that to Cash. Hope he comes back for one more.

  59. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    I said it on the earlier thread and it is still true now: There is a better chance you will hear that the Yankees have traded for me than there is of the Marlins dealing Josh Johnson or the Mariners dealing Felix Hernandez.

    The Marlins are moving into a new stadium, they will be flush with cash and Johnson and Hanley Ramirez are going to be the faces of the organization. They are part of a young core that is under contract for the next 5 years and will try to contend for at least the Wild Card each year.

    They don’t want Hughes and a pu-pu platter of prospects.

  60. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Rich in NJ December 20th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
    I’m not saying Andy is about the money, but the Yankees have disrespected him with money in the past, at least from his p.o.v. It’s probably going to take a little more money to get it done this time.

    ———————

    1 year $12 mil is all it should take to get him back if he wants to pitch.

  61. Captain Clutch December 20th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Can anyone blame Pettitte if he retires? A player wants to see a gm making moves so that the team and can win and right now the pitching is a mess. I am glad that Cashman gets paid all of the money he does and he basically had one idea coming into the off season. Give Lee $200m and if he doesn’t come then I am out of ideas and done this off season. Any gm can handle out millions but how about getting creative and pulling off a trade? I guess it’s hard to make a trade when you over value every prospect and put them on the level of Montero.

  62. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Can anyone blame Pettitte if he retires? A player wants to see a gm making moves so that the team and can win and right now the pitching is a mess

    -
    I agree 100 percent !

  63. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Joe from Long Island December 20th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    yankee21 – along the lines of your 12:57 post – I wouldn’t be shocked if that were indeed the case. That Andy has told that to Cash, and Cash is now trying to create the perception that he’s not hungry for a proven starter.

    —————————————-

    You dont think Cashman is more aggressive for Greinke is that were the case? Im not saying he would have been, but I would have to think if he knew he were two pitchers short, including a front end guy, he would have had to make a more serious run.

    I mean lets be honest, you cant go into a 3 game series in Fenway with Burnett, Mitre, and Nova as your 3 scheduled starters. This rotation as it stands right now is very similar to the 2004-2008 rotations……moose and wang with a bunch of highly questionable guys (johnson, lieber, wright, etc).

  64. Carl December 20th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    # Captain Clutch December 20th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Can anyone blame Pettitte if he retires? A player wants to see a gm making moves so that the team and can win and right now the pitching is a mess. I am glad that Cashman gets paid all of the money he does and he basically had one idea coming into the off season. Give Lee $200m and if he doesn’t come then I am out of ideas and done this off season. Any gm can handle out millions but how about getting creative and pulling off a trade? I guess it’s hard to make a trade when you over value every prospect and put them on the level of Montero.

    The man is 39. You think he was going to pitch forever? You think any gm can handle working in a market full of idiots who think they know everything?

  65. BJK December 20th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
    BJK –

    1 -Greinke is still a top 10 pitcher

    ——————————————————————————–

    Greinke wasn’t even close to a top 10 pitcher in 2010.

    Sabathia, Lee, Hernandez, Halladay, Lincecum, Johnson, Lester, Buchholz, Wainwright, Carpenter, Price, Jimenez, Weaver, Hamels, Latos, Kershaw, Garcia, Verlander, Gonzalez, Cain, Wilson, Pettitte, Oswalt… to name a few… were all better.

  66. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    I am glad that you know Cashman so well that you can say he had one idea coming into the off-season.

    If you know him that well, can you put in a good word for him to find a replacement for Pena as a utility if type?

    Thanks in advance!

  67. joeman December 20th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Andy made 12 mil in 10…have to believe if he comes back he will want more…

  68. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
    Can anyone blame Pettitte if he retires? A player wants to see a gm making moves so that the team and can win and right now the pitching is a mess

    -
    I agree 100 percent !

    ———————–

    How is the pitching a mess? The club lost its #5 starter – that’s it.

    This is a team that is returning every key member of its playoff squad from a year ago; has added defense behind the plate, stabilized its lineup by moving Posada to full time DH and has improved its bullpen.

  69. pat December 20th, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    “Can anyone blame Pettitte if he retires? A player wants to see a gm making moves so that the team and can win and right now the pitching is a mess”

    Most quality professional athletes usually think they are part of the soultion and not just want to be along for the ride to let someone else do the heavy lifting.

  70. backbench December 20th, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    “So heading into spring training, Cashman said the Yankees would try to cull two starters from a young crop that includes Ivan Nova, who is virtually assured a spot in the 2011 rotation, as well as right-handers Andrew Brackman, Dellin Betances, Adam Warren, Hector Noesi and left-hander Manny Banuelos.”

    Just fantastic. Thank you for that link. No matter what happens, the NYYs still get to play at least 162 games in the upcoming season, and giving these kids a chance will make for exciting baseball, win or lose.

  71. Yogi Mantle December 20th, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Being that the pitchers haven’t been named, how do we know which pitchers in that Greinke non-deal were? They could have been pretty significant, and not just fodder. The expectation of Montero seems to cloud over who the two pitchers were supposed to be. Why wouldn’t the Royals be asking for Banuelos or Brackman, and given their current level in the Yankee system, they would seem like throw away parts to many in the media.

    If Andy retires, which is looking even more likely, the rotation is not exactly going to sound like it is solid for 2011. Who knows, maybe the kids coming up will be good and everyone will laud Cashman for not trading them.

    Still, its been a bleak looking off season for the Yankees, and fans seem to think that Andy will return. If he retires then the off season looks even worse.

    Time will tell. It would be nice to see something more done than has been so far, as its looked pretty insignificant on the Yankees front.

  72. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    …Most quality professional athletes usually think they are part of the soultion and not just want to be along for the ride to let someone else do the heavy lifting…

    ————–
    excellent point. But you are forgetting that Cashman is an idiot, has no plan B, lacks vision, and is a defeatist. Therefore for all these reasons and more, Andy is mad at him and will not re-sign.

  73. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    # Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    ———————–

    How is the pitching a mess? The club lost its #5 starter – that’s it.

    This is a team that is returning every key member of its playoff squad from a year ago; has added defense behind the plate, stabilized its lineup by moving Posada to full time DH and has improved its bullpen.

    ————————

    Wow – this is understatement at its finest. The team, as it stands right now has lost its #2 and #5 starters. The 2nd half of last season was a disaster for 2 of the 3 remaining starters and overall, the pitching in the 2H was hardly representative of a playoff type staff…….as evidenced, by the playoffs themselves.

    And how is the bullpen better? They lost Kerry Wood, who was the difference maker in the 2nd half last year……and they added pedro feliciano. The pen is better?

  74. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    I’m gonna sign off.

    Bottom line NYY has a payroll north of $180m, the tops in the game. They have future HOF in Mo, Jeter, and Arod and perhaps Tex and CC. They have some rising stars in the system like Hughes and Cano. And they have the best hitting prospect in the game that just turned 21 and is about to be unleashed on the AL.

    At some point these stars I believe will step up and make things happen in the event Cashman does not get the shiniest new toys the spoiled brats on this blog insist upon.

  75. ConcernedCitizen December 20th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    “Most quality professional athletes usually think they are part of the soultion”

    Possible Cashman solution? … :

    1 Andy Pettitte (P)
    2 Andy P. (C)
    3 A. Pettitte (1B)
    4 A.P. (2B)
    5 Pettitte, Andy (3B)
    6 Andrew Eugene Pettitte (SS)
    7 Andrew E.P. (LF)
    8 A. Eugene Pettitte (CF)
    9 Just “Andy” (RF)

    … sorry, my mind is definitely on the Christmas break…

  76. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    The people who think the season is lost because the Yankees didn’t get Cliff Lee or Zack Greinke really do make me scratch my head.

    If the Yankees had gotten one or both of those guys it is true that they would be a vastly better team than the one that was on the field last year; but the nugget here is that by not getting those guys – they’re not any worse than they were last year.

    Assuming Andy returns (which in the end I believe he will) the Yankees’ top four starters are the same as they were last year.

    Barring another addition, the Yankee bullpen is as good as it was last year if not better with the addition of a second capable lefty.

    The lineup is far more stable with Jorge DHing every day; and the defense behind the plate better with the signing of Russell Martin.

    I would say that as constructed the Yankees are still going to win around 90 – 95 games.

  77. Captain Clutch December 20th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    “How is the pitching a mess? The club lost its #5 starter – that’s it.”
    ——–

    If Pettitte retires the Yanks just lost their #2 starter also. They have 3 starting pitchers including Burnett who was awful last year and they have no idea what they are going to get him this year. I would think only having 3 starters would be a mess. Unless you consider one ace and 4 other question marks a good thing.

  78. Cashman needs to go December 20th, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    Didn’t Cashman say that he was willing to “fill from within” during the last few months of last year as well? I forget, how did that turn out? So now getting things done in the offseason is extended to July.

    “But realistically, I have until July to get this solved.” …..Is just a few more sentences away from “The talent just wasn’t there this year. We’ll regroup and come back next year ready to compete.”

    This was the plan all along folks…..to get payroll under 200 million for this year and probably below the luxury tax limit next year or the following year (with posada and pettite gone next and rivera gone in 2 years). This will be your New York Yankees of the future…..a middle of the road team that will compete for the Wild Card every few years or so and be happy with jerking their fans along like the pirates and royals have been doing for decades now….

    They did it by drafting Cito Culver last year (so they didn’t have to pay big bucks) above slot and will continue to sign these has beens to keep payroll down and keep stringing the fans along….

  79. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    Carlo -

    In the playoffs both Hughes and CC stunk. If what happened in the Playoffs is representative of how they’re going to pitch all of next season then the Yankees could have added Lee to the rotation and it wouldn’t matter one iota.

    AJ Burnett may well see a bounce back to his 2009 form (more in line with his career averages) than a continued 2010 and I still believe Andy will return for one more year.

  80. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Chip ..

    I know your trying to stay postive.. >But come on . . Our Pitching is ok at best with a 40 yearold injury prone Pettite . Our Pitching SUCKS without Pettite .

    Yes our Bullpen is ok . .and our Lineup is Good . . But Starting Pitching is so key.. Thats what wins Championships . . .We just don’t have it

  81. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    # Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    The people who think the season is lost because the Yankees didn’t get Cliff Lee or Zack Greinke really do make me scratch my head.

    If the Yankees had gotten one or both of those guys it is true that they would be a vastly better team than the one that was on the field last year; but the nugget here is that by not getting those guys – they’re not any worse than they were last year.

    Assuming Andy returns (which in the end I believe he will) the Yankees’ top four starters are the same as they were last year.

    Barring another addition, the Yankee bullpen is as good as it was last year if not better with the addition of a second capable lefty.

    The lineup is far more stable with Jorge DHing every day; and the defense behind the plate better with the signing of Russell Martin.

    I would say that as constructed the Yankees are still going to win around 90 – 95 games.
    ———————————————-

    There is a big difference between people who are writing off the season and those who are accepting the reality of a struggle this year because this team has not improved at all and are actually weaker than the team that limped home the last two months of last year.

    Assuming Andy returns (which in the end I believe he will) the Yankees’ top four starters are the same as they were last year. – yes, they are, and they are a year older and one was awful last year to the point where them returning isnt a positive

    Barring another addition, the Yankee bullpen is as good as it was last year if not better with the addition of a second capable lefty. – kerry wood was the most valuable member of the pen not named rivera….he is no longer here…..pedro feliciano does not erase the loss of kerry wood

    I dont disagree that the yankees can win 90-95 games if pettitte returns. i dont disagree that they can make the playoffs. i disagree with the concept that the team isnt worse year over year…..on paper, and that is all we have to go by in december……this team has not improved while other teams have improved.

  82. blake December 20th, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Chip,

    The new stadium did wonders for the Pirates didn’t it….they still wont spend any money. Ill believe the Marlins pony up the cash to re-up Hanley and Johnson in a couple years when I see it. Both will command big boy pay days in he near future and I don’t see a new stadium changing their MO enough to make them spend that kind if money……my guess is that Johnson will be available sometime…just maybe not now.

  83. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    Captain Clutch December 20th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
    “How is the pitching a mess? The club lost its #5 starter – that’s it.”
    ——–

    If Pettitte retires the Yanks just lost their #2 starter also. They have 3 starting pitchers including Burnett who was awful last year and they have no idea what they are going to get him this year. I would think only having 3 starters would be a mess. Unless you consider one ace and 4 other question marks a good thing.

    —————————————-

    The Texas Rangers won the American League with 1 ACE and 4 question marks.

    Lee – legitimate ace
    Wilson – converted reliever starting for the first time in his career
    Colby Lewis – was in Japan a year ago
    Tommy Hunter – unknown
    Derek Holland – unknown

  84. Erin December 20th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    Joelsherman1 Heard for Greinke #Royals asked #Yankees not only for Montero/Nunez, but either of top pitch prospects, Banuelos or Betances, also

  85. ConcernedCitizen December 20th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    “The Texas Rangers won the American League with 1 ACE and 4 question marks.”

    The Yankees also were hitting like garbage in the ALCS, and the SFGiants walked all over those 4 question marks in the Series.

  86. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    blake December 20th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
    Chip,

    The new stadium did wonders for the Pirates didn’t it….they still wont spend any money. Ill believe the Marlins pony up the cash to re-up Hanley and Johnson in a couple years when I see it. Both will command big boy pay days in he near future and I don’t see a new stadium changing their MO enough to make them spend that kind if money……my guess is that Johnson will be available sometime…just maybe not now.

    ——————

    They’ve already signed both of them to long term deals that are club friendly enough for them to pay them without issue.

    They’ve also unloaded everyone else who stood to make any money on that team.

  87. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Colby Lewis – was in Japan a year ago
    Tommy Hunter – unknown
    Derek Holland – unknown

    ————————————

    unknown is kinda better than known…..to be mediocre.

  88. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    ConcernedCitizen December 20th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
    “The Texas Rangers won the American League with 1 ACE and 4 question marks.”

    The Yankees also were hitting like garbage in the ALCS, and the SFGiants walked all over those 4 question marks in the Series.

    ——————————

    Well actually the Giants also beat Lee.

  89. blake December 20th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Chip,

    Those deals are team friendly because the players were young with little service time…..the next deals they sign wont be so team friendly. Johnson’s deal is up after 2013 and he starts making close to 14 million after 2012…..do you really see the Marlins giving him 140 or 150 million bucks after 2013?.

  90. UnKnown December 20th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    So once again when is trade involves the Yankees the other team wants to completely strip us of everything, and when Cashman tells them they are nuts then the team turns around and makes a horrible trade with the player in question.

    I don’t get it.

  91. Yogi Mantle December 20th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    Jon Heyman tweets that the Royals sought Jesus Montero and Eduardo Nunez from the Yankees, but they weren’t convince New York was right for Greinke. The Royals also wanted Manuel Banuelos or Dellin Betances, tweets Joel Sherman.

    _______________

    See, the price for Greinke as far as the Yankees were concerned was even higher, like I just surmised, not just two “throw away” pitchers. My guess is the players named above were the total haul they were looking to get from the Yanks.

    Sorry, but Greinke wasn’t worth that haul. Especially when you look at what they got.

  92. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
    Colby Lewis – was in Japan a year ago
    Tommy Hunter – unknown
    Derek Holland – unknown

    ————————————

    unknown is kinda better than known…..to be mediocre.

    ———————–

    So say Andy does retire and the rotation is:

    CC
    Hughes
    AJ
    Nova
    Phelps

    Are you sure from the vast number of games he pitched last year that Nova will only be mediocre? Are you sure that AJ can’t put together a good season? Do you know at all what you would get from Phelps or whomever else comes up?

    Listen – if you guys want to give up on the 2011 season before 2010 is over – go ahead – I won’t stop you, no one here will…but stay the hell off the bandwagon when it gets rolling again.

  93. Captain Clutch December 20th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    “The Texas Rangers won the American League with 1 ACE and 4 question marks.”
    ——-

    Yeah that’s because their division was so poor and they had no competition at all. It was like playing in the NL. In the AL East you can’t win with a below average pitching staff. If the Yanks use Nova as their 5th starter next year then they better not have an injury to the pitching staff of they will be in a lot of trouble.

  94. Bronx Jeers December 20th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    This will be your New York Yankees of the future…..a middle of the road team that will compete for the Wild Card every few years or so and be happy with jerking their fans along like the pirates and royals have been doing for decades now….

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    :lol:

    The Yankee bandwagon has officially switched over to the “local track”

  95. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    blake December 20th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
    Chip,

    Those deals are team friendly because the players were young with little service time…..the next deals they sign wont be so team friendly. Johnson’s deal is up after 2013 and he starts making close to 14 million after 2012…..do you really see the Marlins giving him 140 or 150 million bucks after 2013?.

    —————————

    Blake,

    I really don’t know. I have no idea if Josh Johnson goes out and blows out his shoulder in the first game of the next season.

    I would like to think that after the way MLB and the MLBPA held their feet to the fire last year that the Marlins would actually try to use some of the money they’re getting from revenue sharing and the new stadium to build their team up – I think a lot will depend on how competative they are this year and whether they can capitalize on the new stadium to draw decent crowds.

  96. mick December 20th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    NYY sweat over every million unless it’s some outside prima dona…..take care of Andy, don’t let the extra million or 2 stop you or Andy will pitch in Texas.

  97. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Captain Clutch December 20th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
    “The Texas Rangers won the American League with 1 ACE and 4 question marks.”
    ——-

    Yeah that’s because their division was so poor and they had no competition at all. It was like playing in the NL. In the AL East you can’t win with a below average pitching staff. If the Yanks use Nova as their 5th starter next year then they better not have an injury to the pitching staff of they will be in a lot of trouble.

    ————–

    But here’s the thing – the Yankees aren’t a below average pitching staff – you have no idea what their pitching staff is because right now it’s unfinished.

    If Andy returns the only questionmark in it is the fifth starter – almost every team has a questionmark at that spot. If Andy doesn’t return you can’t tell me you know what you’re getting from the pitcher who replaces him…

    You’re jumping to the darkest of assumptions and it’s nonsense.

  98. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    ““The Texas Rangers won the American League with 1 ACE and 4 question marks.”

    The Rangers had the fourth best starting pitching in the AL last year.

    You can look this stuff up, folks.

  99. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Bronx Jeers December 20th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
    This will be your New York Yankees of the future…..a middle of the road team that will compete for the Wild Card every few years or so and be happy with jerking their fans along like the pirates and royals have been doing for decades now….

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    The Yankee bandwagon has officially switched over to the “local track”

    ——————-

    They’re trading in the Yankee hats they bought in 1996 for Red Sox ones.

  100. blake December 20th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Chip,

    I agree. All im saying is that Johnson start making big money after 2011 and its doubful they will be in a position to win that division before his contract is up. Maybe they can but there are some good teams in that division now. If they aren’t competitve then I can see them making him available next winter or at the deadline in 2012. We’ll see.

  101. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    “If Andy returns the only questionmark in it is the fifth starter”

    AJ isn’t a question mark?

  102. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
    ““The Texas Rangers won the American League with 1 ACE and 4 question marks.”

    The Rangers had the fourth best starting pitching in the AL last year.

    You can look this stuff up, folks.

    ———————–

    I’m not debating that – what I’m saying is that coming into the season if you looked at their pitching staff would you have said “now there’s a staff that’s going to win the AL West?”

  103. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
    “If Andy returns the only questionmark in it is the fifth starter”

    AJ isn’t a question mark?

    ——————–

    Not especially.

  104. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    “AJ isn’t a question mark?

    ——————–

    Not especially.”

    Not especially?

  105. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    blake December 20th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
    Chip,

    I agree. All im saying is that Johnson start making big money after 2011 and its doubful they will be in a position to win that division before his contract is up. Maybe they can but there are some good teams in that division now. If they aren’t competitve then I can see them making him available next winter or at the deadline in 2012. We’ll see.

    ———————-

    Blake –

    Fair enough. I can get on board with him being available in winter 2011 or 2012, but the notion that the Yankees should, tomorrow, go and deal for either him or Hernandez is silly beyond compare.

  106. pat December 20th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    “NYY sweat over every million unless it?s some outside prima dona?..take care of Andy, don?t let the extra million or 2 stop you or Andy will pitch in Texas.”

    I seem to have missed the part where Andy said he wanted to pitch and not retire and the Yankees were haggling with him.

  107. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
    “AJ isn’t a question mark?

    ——————–

    Not especially.”

    Not especially?

    ————————

    AJ’s year last year was so far off his career numbers I find it hard to believe he will be that bad again.

  108. blake December 20th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    Chip,

    True wouldn’t stop me from from asking though.

  109. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    # Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
    Colby Lewis – was in Japan a year ago
    Tommy Hunter – unknown
    Derek Holland – unknown

    ————————————

    unknown is kinda better than known…..to be mediocre.

    ———————–

    Listen – if you guys want to give up on the 2011 season before 2010 is over – go ahead – I won’t stop you, no one here will…but stay the hell off the bandwagon when it gets rolling again.

    —————–

    See, this is the point you are missing. I am not saying I mail the season in and stop caring if this is the case, but there are many posters out there who think that anyone who points out the pitfalls of situations like this are bandwagon fans……..when frankly, posters like yourself can be painted with a brush as rose colored glass wearing fans just as easily.

    I will be a fan regardless. i will watch every game like I always do. Pretending the team is awesome and the best ever all the time doesnt show dedication or loyalty, it simply shows that you are blinded by your dedication and loyalty.

    I believe i am able to disassociate myself from my penchant for the team and see the big picture. our opponents are improving their teams, we are not. its that simple to me. and yes, i can say with a high level of confidence, if the rotation is cc, hughes, burnett, nova, and phelps, this team isnt playing baseball after the regular season schedule concludes.

  110. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    pat December 20th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
    “NYY sweat over every million unless it?s some outside prima dona?..take care of Andy, don?t let the extra million or 2 stop you or Andy will pitch in Texas.”

    I seem to have missed the part where Andy said he wanted to pitch and not retire and the Yankees were haggling with him.

    —————————

    No, you didn’t miss it – the doomsdayer’s skipped right over it.

  111. CB December 20th, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Joel Sherman is reporting that the Royals were asking for Montero, Nunez, and either Banuelos or Betances.

    That very well could be part of why the yankees weren’t willing to trade Montero for Greinke when they were willing to move him for Lee as a rental.

    It’s also likely that Royals were looking for a fourth pitcher as Curry was reporting – probably someone from the Nova/ Noesi/ Warren range.

    Montero is far more valuable than any player the Royals got back from the Brewers. Banuelos is also probably more valuable than any player the Royals got from the Brewers as well.

    That’s not a trade you can make if you’re the yankees given the risk of Greinke walking away in two years.

  112. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    “AJ’s year last year was so far off his career numbers”

    Stop right there. Think long, think wrong. He’s a question mark.

  113. jacksquat December 20th, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
    Jacksquat,

    And you continue on with your delusions as well

    No delusions here. I’m not the one posting every 5 minutes about a player/trade that has a .01% chance of happening.

  114. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    a middle of the road team that will compete for the Wild Card every few years or so and be happy with jerking their fans along like the pirates and royals have been doing for decades now….

    Seriously, I’m pretty sure you shouldn’t be allowed in public for being this stupid.

  115. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Being honest has nothing to do with riding or hopping off a bandwagon.

    honesty about ones team means they are able to see pitfalls and potential roadblocks.

    jumping off the bandwagon is when those pitfalls and roadblocks are met and the fan throws in the towel.

    they are very different.

    wearing rose colored glasses however is a very straightforward concept in which logic is never used………and said fan will never be accused of jumping off the bandwagon.

  116. UpState December 20th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    What about trying to work out a trade for some bullpen help from San Diego ?

    Realize its the NL West.

    Realize Hoyer probably would only want to help the Red Sox.

    But….Sign Derrick Lee for the $8.0 mil & trade to SD….

    Any thoughts on chance of getting any of these guys ?

    Worth it ?

    Mike Adams (32)
    Tim Stauffer (29)
    Joe Thatcher (29)
    Luke Gregerson (27)
    Ed Mujica (27)

    …any other workable parts that SD may need/want to cast off that we could use ???

  117. blake December 20th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    Cashman must get tired of being asked to pay more for things than everyone else. That has to be frustrating.

  118. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
    our opponents are improving their teams, we are not. its that simple to me.

    Carlo -

    Which of the Yankees’ oppenents is improving itself?

    Boston? Yes, health alone should make them better than they were last year but the additions of Gonzalez and Crawford only cover up for the losses of Beltre and Victor. Boston has possibly the worst tandem of catchers in the division right now and Youk at 3b is far from a sure thing.

    Tampa? They’ve lost their 1b, ss, LF and half their bullpen

    Twins? Have lost every key member of their pen and as of right now their number 2 starter (Pavano)

    Angels – have done nothing. They added a late game non-closer (Downs) that’s it.

    Rangers – lost their best pitcher

    White Sox – Improved their lineup with Dunn, no doubt.

    Tigers – overspent on Benoit and may have the worst defensive team in the American League

    So tell me – who has really stepped up and improved themself?

  119. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    “That’s not a trade you can make if you’re the yankees given the risk of Greinke walking away in two years.”

    The trade was never in the cards. The Royals didn’t need Montero, they needed the kind of players they got.

    Whether it was the best deal the Royals could have made is a separate question, to which I don’t have an answer. But since the Yanks couldn’t offer the Royals what they needed, it makes sense that the Yanks would have had to significantly overpay to make a deal.

  120. Betsy December 20th, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    Wow, is Cash kidding? A rotation of CC, Phil, AJ and 2 kids? Nova and someone else? I love Cash, but that is a total reflection on how poorly he’s handled not just this off-season, but last season as well. Let’s see – we could have had Haren for some combo of Joba/Nova/Robertson/Brackman and he failed to pull the trigger. Joba is just a reliever now and Robertson is so good that the Yankees are still searching for a set-up guy. Is Cash kidding? Two middle relievers, a mid-rotation prospect and Brackman for Haren and he didn’t get it done? Awful – and that’s what a rotation of CC, Phil and AJ plus 2 kids would be……..and that’s assuming (which I’m not) that Phil will be improved from last year.

  121. Kevin Not That Kevin Brown December 20th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    Folks:

    With or without Andy, we’re in trouble next year if the team as currently constituted is what largely emerges out of Spring Training. And that includes the assumption – the hope, really – that Tex, Jeter, Arod and, yes, even AJ, have bounce back years, that Russell Martin re-discovers his “talent (that) never goes away,” and Jorge takes to the DH role, which in the past, he has not.

    Why? Because Boston and Philly have so dramatically improved their teams. Sure, it’s on paper, but if WE’D landed Lee, or Crawford and A-Gon, everyone here would already be printing World Series tickets.

    But we didn’t, they did, and as has been stated here and elsewhere, there’s no one left on the free agent market who is a potential game-changer like those three, and it looks unlikely that any are available in trade.

    So even if we just play up to our potential, that may not be enough. And if we play as we did those last 60+ games, well…

    In fact, the best thing to happen to far this off-season is Tampa de-constructing their team. At least it looks like the Wild Card is once again wide open.

  122. pat December 20th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    “our opponents are improving their teams, we are not. its that simple to me.”

    When you say it’s that simple, it usually isn’t. Starting point of need for improvement needs to be factored in, no?

  123. JWeav December 20th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    we suck

  124. ConcernedCitizen December 20th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    I can tell everyone is emotional over losing Kearns. Well, time heals all wounds, I promise. :P

  125. REZ12 December 20th, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    “Cashman must get tired of being asked to pay more for things than everyone else. That has to be frustrating.”

    Which is exactly why people shouldn’t be holding their breath about Cash acquiring some stud at the deadline.

    As usual, there is a price for the Yankees and a price for everyone else. Considering how average next year’s FAs are, Cash is probably going to have to pray a couple of these young pitchers pan out.

  126. G. Love December 20th, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    Hate to disagree with some of you, but giving the kids and guys like Mitre a chance to round out 2 spots in the rotation, maybe 3 if AJ doesn’t pitch well again, isn’t exciting baseball. It’s horrible baseball.

    It’s baseball where the starting pitcher is usually out by the 3rd inning and the bullpen is constantly burnt by pitching 7 innings some games on back to back days.

    2008 was a horrible season to sit and watch as a fan. The pitching was horrendous.

    If we’re going to get into this whole “we love prospects and want to lose to get better” movement I can tell you that it won’t work out like most of you think it will.

    People will stop watching the Yankees and spending money on them and then Cashman and the owners will overpay for real major league players once the prospects struggle in the rotation.

    They cannot afford a rebuilding year in the rotation here.

    Right now I would think Cashman is in deep trouble with his bosses. He didn’t prepare the team for this possible outcome in any way.

    All last season there was the known potential that he could have to replace Andy and Javy. AJ’s struggles added another question mark to 2011′s rotation.

    And Cashman did nothing other than try to get Cliff Lee. That still left at least 2 rotation spots needing to be filled.

    There was no contigency plan if they missed out on Lee.

    This is poor planning and this team is going to pay for it if he doesn’t unearth some pitching somewhere.

    If Andy doesn’t return, it’s a doomsday scenario for this team for next year. They might not even be in it by the trade deadline to get some available starting pitching.

    At this point he has to seriously consider a guy like Zambrano who is under contract for only 2 more years at serious dollars. He has to roll the dice on the kind of guy who is overpaid and his team might want to shed the contract at a minimal cost in prospects.

    The thing about Andy is he may know his body is done and that’s why he’s not jumping to come back. While his arm was great last year, when the legs go on a pitcher they are done. He could know his body can’t stand up to another season of this.

    CC, Hughes, AJ, Nova and mystery starter is not enough to win the AL East unless AJ is an 18 game winner with lights out stuff. We’d only have 1 lefty in the rotation too which doesn’t help things in our stadium or against some of our opposition.

    Cashman looks like he got his clock cleaned this off season and at this point he owes the fans and customers a state of the Yankees kind of discussion where he explains what their real plan is for this pitching staff and knock off the bluffing and the bluster.

    Kevin Millwood would be a horrible signing, but at this point I’d take him because there’s the chance he’ll give up 5 runs in 6 innings a night and keep us in the game theoretically.

    Maybe this horrible off season makes the Yankee underdogs and they rise to the occasion offensively and have a magnificent season. That said, the talent to win the league and the championship isn’t there in this rotation as presently constituted.

    There aren’t many deal that happy in January and February.

    The rotation is in shambles right now. Sergio Mitre is not a major league starter who should be counted on to be in the rotation. There is no insurance for AJ or Nova if they fail.

    The team’s in trouble and Cashman has to show some kind of plan to fix this before the spring.

  127. Betsy December 20th, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Dylan, I agree with you about Phil being a mid-rotation starter, but I completely disagree about trading him for Felix. You still have holes then – so how do you plan on filling them? This is all moot as the M’s are not dealing him.

    As to Greinke, my guess is those pitchers were Banuelos and Betances.. I don’t blame Cash for not wanting to take the chance…….even if it was Montero, Nunez and just one of those 2.

  128. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    G.Love – Overreacting much?
    2008 was a horrible season to sit and watch as a fan. The pitching was horrendous.
    The difference between 2008 and 2010 was 6 wins.

    6.

  129. austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Chip,

    I am surprised you would say the team is as good as last year. The pitching is worse and the bench is absent. The new catcher is recovering from hip and knee surgery.

    I think Carlo described the situation quite well. With this starting rotation the Yankees were a .500 team for the last two months, and that wasn’t by accident. A team relying on two minor league starters, with none of the ones who will go north with the team considered a bona fide prospect, is not a good team.

    Burnett is not reliable. His velocity is down, and that is what he relies upon. I see no rational basis to think he will have a significant turnaround. Let’s hope Hughes is more like the first half pitcher than the second half, or else this will be the worst Yankee team since to early 90s.

  130. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    # Chip December 20th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
    our opponents are improving their teams, we are not. its that simple to me.

    Carlo -

    Which of the Yankees’ oppenents is improving itself?

    Boston? Yes, health alone should make them better than they were last year but the additions of Gonzalez and Crawford only cover up for the losses of Beltre and Victor. Boston has possibly the worst tandem of catchers in the division right now and Youk at 3b is far from a sure thing.

    Tampa? They’ve lost their 1b, ss, LF and half their bullpen

    So tell me – who has really stepped up and improved themself?

    ————————————–

    You said it right there……..Boston has improved. If the AL East gets the wildcard, we have two chances to make the playoffs…….and one of the teams in our division has improved….and I would say more than a little bit.

    Remember, we were a wild card team last year….so its not as if we dominated our division either.

    Tampa has a better rotation than we currently do 1-5 so we cant just say that they are no longer a factor. They remain a dangerous team with the ability to score runs and they have a solid staff.

    It is not a given that the wildcard comes out of the Al east…..so when a primary division competitor makes big strides year over year, it isnt something that should just sit well with everyone. Its not as rosy as some would like to pretend it is.

  131. JWeav December 20th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    At least we don’t have to see the “Cervelli stare” at the plate this year.

  132. Jerzz December 20th, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    “As to Greinke, my guess is those pitchers were Banuelos and Betances.. I don’t blame Cash for not wanting to take the chance…….even if it was Montero, Nunez and just one of those 2.”

    Especially considering that the Brewers had to give up less than that. Yankee-tax in effect again.

  133. Betsy December 20th, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Banuelos is 19 years old. If Cash even considers him, I may have to reconsider how I feel about Cash. Betances spent last year in AA – he’s not ready either – but he’s possibly going to be rushed? Good job, Cashman.

  134. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    # pat December 20th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    “our opponents are improving their teams, we are not. its that simple to me.”

    When you say it’s that simple, it usually isn’t. Starting point of need for improvement needs to be factored in, no?

    ————————————–

    In the second half of last season, we ranked 13th in the AL in ERA. 13th. I will start by saying the pitching has to improve.

  135. austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Irreverent,

    The difference between the Sox and Yankees last year was also 6 games, but to hear the people here would make one think the Sox have a mountain to climb.

    Don’t you think the staff in the last two months was lacking? Why would it be better next year?

  136. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    austinmac – Do you think it would help to have a pitching coach doing his job? The pitching will get better on that fact alone.

  137. Carl December 20th, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Dan Haren gives up a lot of home runs.

    31 home runs last year.

    Watching him pitch in Yankee Stadium would be fun.

  138. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Maybe they’ll expand to 2 wild cards in each league next year instead of 2012.

  139. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Haren will never be as good as he was in Oakland’s land of free outs.

  140. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Arizona, sorry… need lunch.

  141. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    This is really unreal to me. Did anyone watch this team play the 2nd half of last year?

    This team was 38-35 after the all star break. 38-35. 13th in the AL in ERA as a staff over that span.

    People are bordering on delusional right now if they genuinely believe this team is totally fine and didn’t need to improve in any way into 2011.

    Let me say it again so as to preempt the lack of creative response and the bandwagon argument…………..i will watch every game, at the start of april i will have world series aspirations, i will hold onto them through the end of the season………i will not be throwing in the towel and jumping off the bandwagon.

  142. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    “Haren will never be as good as he was in Oakland’s land of free outs.”

    2 out of Haren’s three best years were in Arizona.

  143. JoeyA December 20th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Wow. Are we really going to be sold a rotation of CC/Hughes/AJ/?/?

    This team hasd officially turned into the Tigers:

    1 ace, a bunch of mid-rotation starters and a great offense. that formula wins you nothing but, at the most, divisional series exits.

    This offseason was a complete blunder. We had one target in our sights, and didn’t even offer the best contract.

    We had no contingency plans in place, whatsoever.

    So now we are left to overpay for a SP whose not worth the package we trade or wait 2 years for the magic B’s to all turn into the next coming of Felix Hernandez.

    Oh, and in 2 years, we won’t have our HOF closer, our SS will be 38, and 3B will be 37.

    This offseason, for a team with 2 glaring needs in the rotation and a crummy BP, has been a complete disgrace.

  144. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    austinmac – Do you think it would help to have a pitching coach doing his job? The pitching will get better on that fact alone.

    ———————–

    this comment alone is a sign to me that people are running out of reasons to convince themselves this pitching situation is attractive/viable.

    now we are banking on a pitching coach to get the job done for us.

  145. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    ID-

    Never mind, I see you corrected.

  146. CB December 20th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    “The trade was never in the cards.”

    No it wasn’t. Which is why it wasn’t made.

    I was just passing on some information as to why and why the Yanks might have been willing to trade for Lee but not Greinke. The package for Greinke was more expensive, as it would stand to reason given he’s signed for much longer than Lee.

    As for trading for need – that’s for each team to decide but nearly all of the Royals talent is unproven at the major league level. Not all of those kids are going to work out as anticipated.

    It seems strange to me to prioritize need to this degree when you’re the Royals. They got back two players in that trade with very large question marks, an outfielder who could be a decent regular and a talented pitcher who is years away as he split time last season between rookie ball and A ball.

    The distance between that and asking for Montero/ Banuelos never mind Travis Synder/ Kyle Drabek is very large.

  147. Bring in the Goose December 20th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Spoiled Yankee fans.

    Highest payroll, top performing offense in the majors last year, and what have we lost this offseason?

    Andy Pettitte, so far, not guaranteed.

    That’s it.

    10-15 wins can be had by Nova, and the #5 will take care of itself in time – let Spring Training work that out.

  148. Bronx Jeers December 20th, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    I think we all knew “Plan B” was probably going to suck and now it’s hitting us square in the face.

    Personally I don’t have an issue with people calling a turd a turd but to say the team is headed for a Pirate/Royal-like era is ridiculous.

  149. Jerzz December 20th, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    G. Love,

    Couldn’t agree more. A rotation with a bunch of 5 inning pitchers and CC, to go along with an erratic bullpen that Cash has failed to address (wow, they signed a guy who is assigned to get 1 or 2 outs a night) will make this a repeat of 2008 all over again.

    And at least Hughes/Kennedy had upside. What the hell does Mitre have? Even Nova is hardly someone who is our future.

    By far the worst off-season of Cashman’s tenure. If he doesn’t have some tricks up his sleeve, then boy, it’s going to be rough. Hard to believe he had no contingency for Lee.

  150. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    CB-

    I just think that if you have Wil Myers and 1B/DH taken, your interest in Montero isn’t as acute as it might be for other teams.

  151. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Keep Drinking the Kool-Aide Goose !

  152. Bring in the Goose December 20th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    The key to next season’s rotation is Burnett.

    If he improves, and CC, Hughes perform to 2010 standards, then we’re in good shape with the runs this offense can score.

    Boston replaced their lost offense and added Dan Wheeler, and a guy in Jenks who could be no more productive than Manny Delcarmen was his first two years.

    Why the panic?

  153. D-Man December 20th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    Haren was one of the best pitchers in the AL once he joined the Angels. He would have been our #2 starter.

    Cash missed the boat on that and he is paying the price for it now… fans will see it when Sergio Mitre is getting lit up or one of the killer Bs are rushed into the rotation because Nova/Mitre have 5 ERAs. And Freddy Garcia? Please. Vazquez part 2 – throwing 87 and is a shell of what he was.

  154. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Carlo –

    But Boston hasn’t really improved. They got healthier, but they’re not a better team than they were last year.

    They have a better LF…that’s true.

    Youk to Gonzo at 1b is a push defensively and offensively
    Beltre to Youk at 3b is a hit defensively and a push offensively
    Victor to Salty/Varitek at C is an all-around regression

    If they get a full season out of Cameron/Ellsbury in CF then that’s an upgrade from McDonald.

    But then again I don’t expect the Yankees to get the same poor performances that they did from Tex or Alex or Jorge. I think Granderson will be better too because he’ll be healthier. I have no idea what to expect from Jeter or Martin.

    Boston made a ton of moves – there’s no way around it – and the names they brought in were huge back page names – but if you look at it honestly did they really improve their team? I don’t know that they did.

  155. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Why the panic?

    – Because your counting on Burnett to be good . . Andy to come back .. . and finally . .Our Pitching sucks !

    its rather simple

  156. jacksquat December 20th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Again, if Andy comes back the rotation is the same as last season minus Vazquez and his 5.32 ERA.

    The lineup should be at least as good if not better. Jeter, Tex, A-Rod and Granderson (look at last 1.5 months) are good bets to improve at least a little. Martin should be at least as good as Cervelli with the bat (Cervelli’s first month was a fluke) and better defensively, plus Montero could provide a boost, possibly a big boost.

    Be concerned if Andy retires, but if he doesn’t there’s no reason to be out on the ledge.

  157. Captain Clutch December 20th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Hopefully Cash is just saying what he is so he doesn’t sound desperate in trade talks. Too bad the Yanks can’t get a player put on a platter like the Sox do. The day that Cashman stops overvaluing his prospects and is willing to move the lower tier guys is the day he will be able to trade for a starting pitcher. Cashman refusing to include Nunez in the Lee deal tells you all you need to know about Cash and his love for his prospects.

  158. Carl December 20th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Lohud Yankee fans have a inferiority complex with the Red Sox. It’s sad.

  159. CB December 20th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    “I just think that if you have Wil Myers and 1B/DH taken, your interest in Montero isn’t as acute as it might be for other teams.”

    Wave-

    I don’t disagree. And there simply may not have been a good fit with the Yanks. I also didn’t see it lining up well.

    That said, I didn’t like the package they got from the Brewers. Too much of Greinke’s value got translated into uncertainty with limited potential pay off.

    And leaving the Royals aside, I don’t think the Yanks could afford to give up Montero and Banuelos/ Betances in one deal for a pitcher only signed for two more seasons.

  160. pat December 20th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Carlo

    Everyone can see there are problems.

    Throwing money or prospects at new problems just leaves you with different problems, not solutions to the old ones.

    Better to hold onto the money or the prospects until a solution comes along whether it be a day, a month or a year from now.

  161. Bring in the Goose December 20th, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
    Why the panic?

    ? Because your counting on Burnett to be good . . Andy to come back .. . and finally . .Our Pitching sucks !

    its rather simple

    ———————————————————————————————————————–

    I’m not counting on anything, Mike.

    Just not flushing the season in December.

    I’ll buy your tickets. Go watch the Cyclones instead.

  162. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 1:55 pm
    Chip,

    I am surprised you would say the team is as good as last year. The pitching is worse and the bench is absent. The new catcher is recovering from hip and knee surgery.

    I think Carlo described the situation quite well. With this starting rotation the Yankees were a .500 team for the last two months, and that wasn’t by accident. A team relying on two minor league starters, with none of the ones who will go north with the team considered a bona fide prospect, is not a good team.

    Burnett is not reliable. His velocity is down, and that is what he relies upon. I see no rational basis to think he will have a significant turnaround. Let’s hope Hughes is more like the first half pitcher than the second half, or else this will be the worst Yankee team since to early 90s.

    ——————-

    Do I think the team is a shoe in for the playoffs? No.

    I think that it is more likely that this team replicates the 08 Yankees than any of the awful Yankee teams of the 90s though.

    I also think that without Cliff Lee under contract Brian will have more flexibility to make moves once the season gets going than he has at any other time in the last 10 years.

  163. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Carlo – It is no great mystery that pitchers need a good coach around to make sure they are staying withing their deliveries and not tipping pitches. Eiland was gone for 2 months last year to start the season, and when he came back not a single pitcher showed any improvement. Vazquez, Burnett and Hughes got worse and CC got hurt. Then he was released very in a very ho-hum fashion with no consideration of keeping him around.

    Smells like fish.

    There’s no reason to make excuses, the pitching SHOULD be better.

  164. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    # Bring in the Goose December 20th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    The key to next season’s rotation is Burnett.

    If he improves, and CC, Hughes perform to 2010 standards, then we’re in good shape with the runs this offense can score.

    Boston replaced their lost offense and added Dan Wheeler, and a guy in Jenks who could be no more productive than Manny Delcarmen was his first two years.

    Why the panic?
    ————————————

    right, and getting youkillis, pedroia, ellsbury, and beckett all back healthy probably would never erase that massive 6 game lead we had on them at seasons end.

    I dont know what team everyone else watched from July on, but the yankee team i watched played 3 games over .500 for their final 73 in the regular season and i wasnt all that impressed.

  165. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Goose -

    I?m not counting on anything, Mike.

    Just not flushing the season in December.

    I?ll buy your tickets. Go watch the Cyclones instead.

    ————————————————————

    Im not counting them out either. . I’ll be with them till the end … we differ thats all

  166. Bronx Jeers December 20th, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    I think I had the IPK-Hughes combo penciled in for at least 20 wins. :lol:

  167. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    “And leaving the Royals aside, I don’t think the Yanks could afford to give up Montero and Banuelos/ Betances in one deal for a pitcher only signed for two more seasons.”

    And I don’t disagree with that, though a lot of that analysis depends of course on whether Montero turns out to be a catcher or not.

  168. CB December 20th, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Cashman’s quotes from today strike me as being in the Bubba Crosby will play centerfield school of quotes.

    Cashman is in a bad position and other teams know it. Just look at what the Royals asked the yankees to give up for Greinke.

    Cashman’s likely just saying this publicly to make to minimize perceptions of desperation.

    I don’t think we’re going to see two rookies in the rotation to start the season.

  169. Don December 20th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Good that they didn’t ship out Montero and Nunez for Greinke. Regarding Kearns, it just shows you how lucrative baseball is: you have a mediocre season and get rewarded with $1.3 million!

  170. Bring in the Goose December 20th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    pat December 20th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
    Carlo

    Everyone can see there are problems.

    Throwing money or prospects at new problems just leaves you with different problems, not solutions to the old ones.

    Better to hold onto the money or the prospects until a solution comes along whether it be a day, a month or a year from now.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    This is a very sensible post, pat.

    Yanks are in a good position right now – 2 games away from being in the World Series and they essentially have the same team they had last year.

    They have money to spend and all their top prospects.

    I’m excited to see Montero play next year, and I hope one of the killer Bs is up in July.

  171. Carl December 20th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    Beckett had 1 good year. That was in 2007.

    He’s a career 4.00 era pitcher.

  172. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    “I’m excited to see Montero play next year”

    I plan to take a trip to Scranton myself. It should be very exciting down there next summer.

  173. austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    Irreverent,

    I will not bad-mouth Rothschild, but the Cubs pitching has not reflected this ability about which you speak.

    It seems silly to me not to recognize the obvious problems with the staff. Carlo’s stats tell us what the team pitching will likely be this year absent some changes. I spent many years following the Yankees with wishful thinking. It made for a long season.

  174. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    For those of you who are imploring Cashman do “something” please identify that something.

    You want him to sign another pitcher? Who? Aside from Andy, who has yet to decide if he wants to pitch; who do you want to sign that would be a good fit for this team?

    You want him to trade for a pitcher? What pitcher? Who are you certain is available and that the Yankees can get?

    Cashman didn’t “miss the boat” on Crawford or Werth – he was never interested in them in the first place – why would he be? His outfield is pretty darn strong as it is.

    Cliff Lee took a deal that he wanted – the Yankees had the best offer on the table – what was Brian going to do – offer him a worse deal?

    Did things go smoothly with Jeter? No. But they got done and in a fair way to both the player and the club.

    We know what the demands were for Greinke and if you’re going to give up Montero and Nunez plus a high level pitching prospect you had better be sure you’re doing it for a guy who can perform in New York – Brian wasn’t convinced that was the case.

    You can’t overreact to what other teams are doing – other teams had different needs than the Yankees. Boston lost two star players and needed to replace them – which they did. The White Sox needed to overhaul their bullpen – they did that.

    Just relax and let the season unfold. Nothing is won or lost in December except media wars.

  175. Jerzz December 20th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    “I don’t think we’re going to see two rookies in the rotation to start the season.”

    But if Cashman’s alternatives are Garcia, Milwood, etc. they might as well try out the rookies and see what they can get, rather than acquire washed up veterans with 5 ERAs.

  176. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
    “And leaving the Royals aside, I don’t think the Yanks could afford to give up Montero and Banuelos/ Betances in one deal for a pitcher only signed for two more seasons.”

    And I don’t disagree with that, though a lot of that analysis depends of course on whether Montero turns out to be a catcher or not.

    ————————

    As I said above, if you’re going to give up a package like that you have to be darned sure the guy you’re getting won’t go all Ed Whitson on you – Brian was not convinced so bowing out was the smart move.

  177. Chambliss December 20th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Is Jaret Wright still available?

    The Yankees need a mid level starting who can pitch a lot of innings. Perhaps they can work out something with Atlanta for Derek Lowe.

  178. JoeyA December 20th, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    If he improves, and CC, Hughes perform to 2010 standards, then we’re in good shape with the runs this offense can score
    ————————————————————————————————————-

    Can we all get one thing straight re: our offense from last year:

    We scored them most runs in baseball, yes that’s true.

    But when you score, say, 40 runs in 6 games, but 3 of those games you don’t score more than 2, it doesn’t matter how many runs you score.

    Our offense last season was streaky, at best. We NEVER put a string of offensive performances together.

    Anyone who watched every game last year knows, despite all the statistics in our favor, our offense NEEDS to be more consistent in 2011 because we can’t count on any of our pitchers outside of CC to hold a team down.

    We will be digging ourselves out of a lot of holes with this rotation early in games. And if 2010 showed us anything, it’s that when our offense presses, we can’t hit a lick!

  179. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    # pat December 20th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Carlo

    Everyone can see there are problems.

    Throwing money or prospects at new problems just leaves you with different problems, not solutions to the old ones.

    Better to hold onto the money or the prospects until a solution comes along whether it be a day, a month or a year from now.

    ——————————————–

    I am not saying we should have acquired greinke……what i am saying is that to sit here on 12/20/10 and pretend this team is fine going into next year lacks prudent thought.

    This was a very mediocre/average baseball team since July.

    The team, on paper right now, is worse than that July-October team.

    So, the “the sox didnt get better”, and the “as long as andy comes back we are fine” , and the “now we have a pitching coach” arguments dont hold a lot of water. People seem like they have totally glossed over this fact that this team was putrid for several months to end last season.

  180. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Captain Clutch December 20th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
    Hopefully Cash is just saying what he is so he doesn’t sound desperate in trade talks. Too bad the Yanks can’t get a player put on a platter like the Sox do. The day that Cashman stops overvaluing his prospects and is willing to move the lower tier guys is the day he will be able to trade for a starting pitcher. Cashman refusing to include Nunez in the Lee deal tells you all you need to know about Cash and his love for his prospects.

    ———————

    And if Cashman had traded Montero, Nunez, etc… for Lee and then Cliff left for the Phillies this winter anyway you would be calling for his head for dealing away prospects like that for a 2 month rental.

  181. GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    What people are forgetting about Boston being “better” is they lost almost all of their bench. If they have one or two injuries, there is no Hall to bail them out, no Martinez to move between catcher/DH and first base. Only Pittsburgh has a worse catching tandem. Their rotation isn’t in any better shape than NYYs when it’s as paper thin as that one.

  182. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    “Brian was not convinced so bowing out was the smart move.”

    Whatever Cashman may have thought, a trade to the Yanks was pure fantasyland from the start as I said last week.

  183. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    # Carl December 20th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    Beckett had 1 good year. That was in 2007.

    He’s a career 4.00 era pitcher.

    ——————————-

    how many 4.00 or better career era pitchers do we sport in our rotation right now?

  184. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
    “Brian was not convinced so bowing out was the smart move.”

    Whatever Cashman may have thought, a trade to the Yanks was pure fantasyland from the start as I said last week.

    ———————–

    Obviously it wasn’t since the Royals made an offer to the Yankees and Greinke was willing to come here.

    I think that pushes it out of Fantasy Land and leave it squarely in the reality land where Brian didn’t think it was a good deal.

  185. CB December 20th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    “though a lot of that analysis depends of course on whether Montero turns out to be a catcher or not.”

    I think the key with Montero is whether or not he can play a Piazza-esque level of catcher for the first five years of his career or so – or at least until Teixeira is under contract. He’s going to be 26-27 when Tex’s contract is up, IIRC and he can be shifted to 1b.

    As a catcher he could be a 7-8 WAR player. But even as a 1b he could be a 5-6 WAR player (and that’s assuming he’s a bad defensive 1b).

    Even as a DH he could be a 4-5 WAR player.

    His value will be influenced by his position. But if the bat turns out to be what it could be, then he’s going to be extremely valuable regardless of position.

    If he catches decently, he’s got a chance to be the best player in the game. But even as a DH he could be an all star caliber player.

  186. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
    What people are forgetting about Boston being “better” is they lost almost all of their bench. If they have one or two injuries, there is no Hall to bail them out, no Martinez to move between catcher/DH and first base. Only Pittsburgh has a worse catching tandem. Their rotation isn’t in any better shape than NYYs when it’s as paper thin as that one.

    ———————–

    I would take Chris Snyder over Saltalamaccia and Varitek

  187. 4 NYY December 20th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    I’m glad to hear Cashman say he’s looking at a possible 10 young SP’s from within for a new man or two on the bump. I really think one or more could arrive. Kind of exciting.

    In reality though, probably a trade will still happen.

    And am equally glad that he’s stated no Joba as a starter.

    Hope Montero makes the team also. He could fill Thames role ( as hitter ) of last year if he does. And Po wouldn’t have to DH so much.

  188. G. Love December 20th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    They ARE NOT essentially the same team they were last year. Right now they are missing the 2nd best starter in Pettitte who could be retiring and they have not replaced Kerry Wood who was our true 8th inning guy in the bullpen.

    That is two important pieces of the pitching staff that have not been addressed.

    You’re also putting a ton of faith and pressure on Nova. We once had a pitcher come up for a short stint who was fantastic in September. His name was Ian Kennedy. Then in 2008 we handed him a rotation spot and he was abysmal and not ready yet and the team gave up on him. Regardless of what he did in Arizona, the fact is the Yankees couldn’t win and put up with his growing pains.

    I would not be stunned to see Nova have a similar progression where he struggles like that.

    Right now, Nova is our 4 starter. He’s a major risk. As a 5 he’s a risk you’re willing to take but not in this current rotation. I could take growing pains from a 5th starter. From a 4th when AJ is your 3rd? Not too thrilled about that.

    The trade market stinks for us. The free agent market looks worse right now.

    That said, Cashman has to find a starter somewhere who is a competent major league starter without some big “issue” that makes him a huge question mark.

  189. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    “Obviously it wasn’t since the Royals made an offer to the Yankees and Greinke was willing to come here.”

    Fantasyland. The Yanks weren’t going to do that deal.

  190. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    My guess on the youngster who emerges this spring for the rotation is David Phelps. I base that on nothing, having never seen the kid pitch, but it seems to me that he’s as good a bet as any and, from the boxscores anyway – was pretty strong last year.

  191. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    CB-

    Again, I don’t disagree with your analysis as far as WAR goes. But if Montero is a 1B/DH, not a C, I do that deal.

  192. Carl December 20th, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    # Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    # Carl December 20th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    Beckett had 1 good year. That was in 2007.

    He’s a career 4.00 era pitcher.

    ——————————-

    how many 4.00 or better career era pitchers do we sport in our rotation right now?

    You brought up that overrated scrub Beckett. I gave you the facts. He’s actually pitched to a 4.30 era in Boston.

  193. CB December 20th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    The Yankees made similar high risk gambles on Both CC and Lee. In fact the CC gamble was even bigger as it was part of the reason why they passed on Santana.

    People loved it in the CC case because the gamble worked out.

    And now people hate that approach because it didn’t work with Lee as he just chose to play elsewhere.

    Can’t like risk only part of the time. It’s not always going to work out optimally. That’s why it’s risky in the first place.

  194. Squeakz December 20th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    So I keep hearing about petitte retiring and then not so much…. Since when did Petitte become the new Brett Favre????

  195. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
    “Obviously it wasn’t since the Royals made an offer to the Yankees and Greinke was willing to come here.”

    Fantasyland. The Yanks weren’t going to do that deal.

    —————————-

    Right – because Brian was not convinced that Greinke was a good fit here. If he was convinced that Greinke could come in here and be a CY Young pitcher then he would have driven Montero and Nunez to the airport himself.

    Cashman has seen too many Jose Contreras’s, Randy Johnson’s, Javy Vazquez’s to blindly think that anyone can perform in New York. At that price the risk was too high.

    Fantasyland would be the Yankees getting Felix Hernandez for Joba Chamberlain.

  196. Erica in NY December 20th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Carl. Pavano.

    Thank you

    (Ducks out of the way and runs now)

  197. 4 NYY December 20th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    queakz December 20th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    So I keep hearing about petitte retiring and then not so much…. Since when did Petitte become the new Brett Favre????

    ————————————————————————————-

    Good Lord Minerva ! Let’s hope not !!!

  198. Captain Clutch December 20th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    And if Cashman had traded Montero, Nunez, etc… for Lee and then Cliff left for the Phillies this winter anyway you would be calling for his head for dealing away prospects like that for a 2 month rental.
    ———-

    If you are stupid enough to include Montero in a deal for a 2 month rental then why would you let Nunez stop you from finishing the deal?? It makes no sense. At the time I didn’t like the trade at all and obviously now it would of been an awful deal but including your top prospect and not wanting to include a lower level one makes absolutely no sense.

  199. hardwired7 December 20th, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Taking the long view here, there are no front end starters in next yr’s free agent mkt:

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....gents.html

    The fact is, YMH needs to pitch like a #2. It’s time for him to work deep into games, and he needs to put away hitters when he has them down in the count.

    Between Warren, Noesi and the Bs one would think at least two will emerge as legitimate big league starters.

    FWIW, I was impressed w/Nova last season. His fastball had good life and the breaking pitches were electric at times. Like most young pitchers, he was prone to lapse innings that derailed potentially dominant starts. I think a few good to great starts for him could have a snowball effect that could lead to dominate stretches.

  200. austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Chip,

    If there is no one now available to help the pitching, don’t you place any responsibility on Cashman for that? He is going to have a $200M payroll with grave pitching problems.

  201. Yankee Trader December 20th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    Where is lefty Aroldis Chapman when you need him?? That one signing would have helped.

  202. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    Some people just aren’t happy unless they feel they can write “world series” on their calendar. Spoiled brats.

    The only thing you can hope for in baseball is to make the playoffs. Pretending in March like there is a difference between a WS tem and a playoff team is delusional. Once you get there, it’s anyone’s ballgame. There are no guarantees.

    2010 – 2 best teams were Rays and Phillies. Giants win world series with 92 wins against the Rangers.
    2009 – 2 Best teams were Yankees and LA Dodgers. Yankee’s were an incredible team and hey look… Burnett can pitch.
    2008 – 2 best teams were the Cubs and the Angels. The phillies won the WS.
    2007 – 2 Best teams were Boston/Cleveland and Arizona. Boston beat the WC Rockies.
    2006 – 2 best teams were the Yankees and the Mets. The Cardinals (with the worst record ever for a WS champ)M/b> beat the WC Tigers.
    2005 – 2 Best teams were the WhiteSox and the Cardinals. The WhiteSox beat the WC Astros.
    2004 – 2 Best teams were the Yankees and the Cardinals. Boston can bite me.
    2003 – 2 Best teams were the Yankees and the Braves. The WC Marlins beat the 101 win Yankees.

    OK I’m bored with this. Keep going back the trend does not change.

    As you can see, even being the best team over the entire regular season is no guarantee of winning a world series (it almost seems like it is a bad idea to be the best). Pretending like you can figure out in DECEMBER who is going to win 5 and 7 game series in OCTOBER is complete insanity.

    You really all need to calm down.

  203. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    oh poop. i missed a bold tag. :(

  204. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    Chip-

    I said the deal would never happen. I said it was fantasyland. When randy l does a google search next year to find out who was right on Greinke, my name will be there. He will give me my due.

    Let’s move on.

  205. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    # Carl December 20th, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    # Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    # Carl December 20th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    Beckett had 1 good year. That was in 2007.

    He’s a career 4.00 era pitcher.

    ——————————-

    how many 4.00 or better career era pitchers do we sport in our rotation right now?

    You brought up that overrated scrub Beckett. I gave you the facts. He’s actually pitched to a 4.30 era in Boston.

    ————————-

    Then you should be comparing that 4.30 ERA to the performance of the guys who made spot starts for him during his absence…..since my point in bringing him up was that they would benefit from a full year of him.

  206. randy l. December 20th, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    i think pettitte is going to play another year simply because he knows that his teammates need him.

    this is an unusual situation and i think his loyalty as a teammate will enter into his decision.

    .. and then there is that 15 million that will come in handy for his kids future.

  207. CB December 20th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    I like Nova. He’s got a very good arm. Terrific frame. He commands his fastball well.

    That said – he is going to struggle his first season in the rotation. He’s not yet consistent enough with his curve ball and his arm action doesn’t help that. It’s going to be a challenge for him to correct that at the major league level.

  208. TD213 December 20th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    But the “offense will improve” is based solely on wishful thinking.

    Jeter is going to be 37 next year. On what basis will he improve?

    A-Rod is going to be 36 and has had nagging injuries each of the last 2 years. His body is breaking down, whether it is from steroid use or age or both. He had the worst OPS since 1997.

    Tex – I’ll give you, but we still have to put up with his no-shows during the first 6 weeks and disappearance in the fall.

    Granderson? Good 6 weeks. Has to show more than that. Even then, he is extremely streaky.

    Posada? He’s been awful in his career as a DH. who knows?

    Martin? Has been a subpar offensive player for 2.5 seasons now with nagging injuries. Hardly a proven commodity.

    There are even questions if Gardner and Swisher can replicate their performances last year, though I’m comfortable with Swish anyway.

    At this point, there are 3 players who you more or less know what to expect next year – Cano, Tex, Swish. Everyone else is up in the air, whether it is because of age, injury concerns, or other questions.

  209. G. Love December 20th, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    austinmac,

    The responsibility is squarely on Cashman for not having a true contingency plan to Cliff Lee.

    He still has time to fix this. I just don’t know how he’s going to pull it off.

    Teams typically aren’t sellers at this point in the off season.

  210. 4 NYY December 20th, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    ——————————————————————————————–

    100 % CORRECT !!!

  211. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    # GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    What people are forgetting about Boston being “better” is they lost almost all of their bench. If they have one or two injuries, there is no Hall to bail them out, no Martinez to move between catcher/DH and first base. Only Pittsburgh has a worse catching tandem. Their rotation isn’t in any better shape than NYYs when it’s as paper thin as that one.
    ———————————————————-

    Who is our bench?

    Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, Lackey, Dice K with Wakefield as the #6 isnt better than CC, Hughes, Burnett, Nova, Phelps/Noesi/Mitre?

  212. GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    If it’s necessary, the Yanks will repeat the 2007 season when they picked up 19 wins from and string of pitchers from hughes, Igawa, Clippard, DeSalvo, Kennedy and others. All picked up wins and NYY still won 94 games. Those minor leaguers started 32+ games.

  213. Yankee Trader December 20th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Randy-

    I certainly hope you’re right about Pettitte. His teammates should be calling him to sign now.

  214. yanks 27 December 20th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    We went from Cliff Lee to this? Freddy Garcia? Mitre? Dave Phelps?

    Cash still has time, but man, this should be proof to other GMs not to put all your eggs in one basket.

  215. austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    I think Derek Lowe would be a good addition. Looking at Fangraphs.com, his fastball velocity while never great is where it has been for several years. Of course, I have no idea if he is available.

  216. Bring in the Goose December 20th, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    G. Love December 20th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
    austinmac,

    The responsibility is squarely on Cashman for not having a true contingency plan to Cliff Lee.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Maybe there wasn’t a contingency plan, G., because there’s no one available NOW.

    Why they need to be patient, and the fans as well.

  217. Yankee Trader December 20th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    GB7

    If Pettitte doesn’t come back which 5 minor leaguers in order are ready to step into the starting rotation, and which ones could definitely help the back end of the bullpen?

  218. 4 NYY December 20th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    I can wait till ST is about over and know who’s who in the zoo !!!

  219. ConcernedCitizen December 20th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    “2 Best teams were Yankees and LA Dodgers. Yankee’s were an incredible team and hey look… Burnett can pitch.”

    I can still remember those pitching performances like they were yesterday. Good times.

  220. Yankee Trader December 20th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    austinmac-

    The Braves are an improved team and should be vying for a playoff spot. Don’t think Lowe would be available.

  221. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    # GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    If it’s necessary, the Yanks will repeat the 2007 season when they picked up 19 wins from and string of pitchers from hughes, Igawa, Clippard, DeSalvo, Kennedy and others. All picked up wins and NYY still won 94 games. Those minor leaguers started 32+ games.

    ———————————————-

    Arod also had an OPS north of 1.000, and posada north of .950……jeter hit .322 and we scored 968 runs…….109 more than this team scored last year. so unless the offense generates 0.7 runs per game more than they did last year, 19 wins out of scrap heap 5th starters isnt as likely.

  222. Carl December 20th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play......id=7102869

    AJ was the man this day.

  223. Yankee Trader December 20th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    If we do add arms like Garcia or Nova to the starting rotation, the bullpen is going to be called upon very often to come in by the 6th inning.

  224. Hopdevil December 20th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    ID – all good points.

    I would add to your post that some people whining about pitching should go back a few years to a rotation MUCH better than the vaunted Phillies rotation – yes, the rotation of Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine. The one that was great enough to have “Team of the 90′s” inscribed in their 1995 WS rings. Team of the 90′s, indeed.

    It was a great rotation. FAR above any rotation in baseball today. And yet for all the greatness of that rotation – with 3 HoF’ers in their prime – they came away with just 1 WS win. That’s why the games are played on the field, during the season.

  225. 4 NYY December 20th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    No Lowe back to A.L. Please !

  226. CB December 20th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    “The responsibility is squarely on Cashman for not having a true contingency plan to Cliff Lee. ”

    G.Love,

    I disagree with this somewhat. What I mean by that is this – a true contingency plan would have had to be executed either last winter or during the 2010 season. Once the pitchers fell off the board from the once great 2010 winter free agent class, a contingency plan had to be put in place before this winter.

    But any contingency plan would have cost money (and talent). That in turn would have made it potentially unworkable for them to get Cliff Lee to start with.

    Deciding to go all in on Lee I think precluded them from making other moves.

    It was a high risk strategy that would have set them up to make a huge run over the next 3 seasons.

    This time the risk didn’t work out and it’s clearly left them in a vulnerable position if Andy doesn’t come back.

    To me the issue wasn’t a contingency as much as it was the up front risk involved.

    To get CC they had to pass on Santana. The CC move literally took 2 years to set up.

    The Lee move also took over a season to set up. Just to make a play at him they had to pass on other guys.

  227. GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    Trader, my guess is that the 5 pitchers would be Nova, Mitchell, Phelps, Noesi, and probably Betances. Somewhere along the line, pitchers like Heyer, Hirsh (if he’s still in the system), Warren and even Ryan Pope could make an emergency start or two.

  228. 4 NYY December 20th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    # Carl December 20th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play……id=7102869

    AJ was the man this day.

    ============================

    Not MANY of those DAYS ~

  229. yanks 27 December 20th, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    “If it’s necessary, the Yanks will repeat the 2007 season when they picked up 19 wins from and string of pitchers from hughes, Igawa, Clippard, DeSalvo, Kennedy and others. All picked up wins and NYY still won 94 games. Those minor leaguers started 32+ games.”

    The 2007 team scored almost 1,000 runs.

    They took off in the 2nd half, but look at how that season started – last place in the AL East on Memorial Day, 14.5 games behind Boston.

    That team would have been much better had they stayed healthy. They ran over everyone in the 2nd half once they got Clemens, Joba went to the pen, and they re-tooled the bench.

  230. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    # Hopdevil December 20th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    ID – all good points.

    I would add to your post that some people whining about pitching should go back a few years to a rotation MUCH better than the vaunted Phillies rotation – yes, the rotation of Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine. The one that was great enough to have “Team of the 90’s” inscribed in their 1995 WS rings. Team of the 90’s, indeed.

    It was a great rotation. FAR above any rotation in baseball today. And yet for all the greatness of that rotation – with 3 HoF’ers in their prime – they came away with just 1 WS win. That’s why the games are played on the field, during the season.

    —————————————–

    the point is not when great rotations dont win……..its how often very average to below average rotations do win?

    but i do see logic in what you are saying……why bother having one of the best rotations of all time, because it doesnt guarantee anything, so you should strive to be average.

  231. Yankee Trader December 20th, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    It took a David Justice solo homerun and a Tom Glavine shutout to secure that one WS win.

    Pitching and defense are the keys to winning the WS.

  232. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    Statistics should be a required class in high school… it’s embarrassing that people have no idea how trends work. I can’t imagine the inability to understand trends and outliers makes your lives easier.

  233. austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    GB,
    In 2007 AROD hit 54 home runs and had 156 RBIs. They won the wild card despite the pitching. I don’t see that this year.

    The only killer B remotely possible this year is Brackman and that would be a pleasant surprise. Mitchell, Phelps etc. are possible but don’t have a very highly reported upside. None are ranked highly on the prospect lists. Clearly, the Yankees are hoping for lightning in two bottles. Yet, people criticize others for pessimism and act as if they are not “true fans”.

  234. GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
    # GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    If it’s necessary, the Yanks will repeat the 2007 season when they picked up 19 wins from and string of pitchers from hughes, Igawa, Clippard, DeSalvo, Kennedy and others. All picked up wins and NYY still won 94 games. Those minor leaguers started 32+ games.

    ———————————————-

    Arod also had an OPS north of 1.000, and posada north of .950……jeter hit .322 and we scored 968 runs…….109 more than this team scored last year. so unless the offense generates 0.7 runs per game more than they did last year, 19 wins out of scrap heap 5th starters isnt as likely.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    You might want to go back and look at those games. They were basically .500 pitchers but, they still pitched good games and won.

    You need to stop sobbing about everything go change your diaper. The Yankees have been pulling kids out of the deep minors for years and won.

  235. Yankee Trader December 20th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    GB7

    Will Brackman make the pen, or as was suggested last night, will that spot go to Soria for the trade proposal you suggested. :)

  236. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    so you should strive to be average.

    That was not the conclusion you should have come up with, and I think you know it. You are being spiteful now.

    What you should have come up with is that it makes NO SENSE to worry about something that is largely inconsequential. LOTS of teams have won world series with average-to-poor 4 and 5 starters.

    The yankees won 89 games in 2008 with a worse rotation than they have now. 45 starts from Kennedy/Hughes/Ponson/Rasner resulted in 9 wins.

    It is not hard to outperform that.

  237. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    “The Yankees have been pulling kids out of the deep minors for years and won.”

    They have?

  238. Hopdevil December 20th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    “why bother having one of the best rotations of all time, because it doesnt guarantee anything, so you should strive to be average.”

    LMAO. Because Greinke would’ve given us the greatest. amirite?

    Still taking things out of context…./sigh

  239. Red Lobster December 20th, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Wouldn’t Pettitte’s performance last year be considered an outlier as well, like Mussina in 2010? Yet everyone is treating Andy like he is going to be that same guy next year.

  240. GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
    GB,
    In 2007 AROD hit 54 home runs and had 156 RBIs. They won the wild card despite the pitching. I don’t see that this year.

    The only killer B remotely possible this year is Brackman and that would be a pleasant surprise. Mitchell, Phelps etc. are possible but don’t have a very highly reported upside. None are ranked highly on the prospect lists. Clearly, the Yankees are hoping for lightning in two bottles. Yet, people criticize others for pessimism and act as if they are not “true fans”.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Pessimisim is one thing, but, 3/4ths of them have been on a daily sob fest since 2010 started.

  241. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    # GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
    # GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    If it’s necessary, the Yanks will repeat the 2007 season when they picked up 19 wins from and string of pitchers from hughes, Igawa, Clippard, DeSalvo, Kennedy and others. All picked up wins and NYY still won 94 games. Those minor leaguers started 32+ games.

    ———————————————-

    Arod also had an OPS north of 1.000, and posada north of .950……jeter hit .322 and we scored 968 runs…….109 more than this team scored last year. so unless the offense generates 0.7 runs per game more than they did last year, 19 wins out of scrap heap 5th starters isnt as likely.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    You might want to go back and look at those games. They were basically .500 pitchers but, they still pitched good games and won.

    You need to stop sobbing about everything go change your diaper. The Yankees have been pulling kids out of the deep minors for years and won.

    ———————————————————————————————-

    I would take you more seriously if you didn’t feel the need to act like a child so often with the insults and the carrying on and nonsense.

    The 2007 offense was considerably better than the 2010 offense, which will be the 2011 offense. that is why the 2007 team made the playoffs, and then got quickly dismissed.

    I love how having a rotation that gets a team that scores 968 runs into the playoffs, where they are quickly dismissed, is the new form of good.

    I dont have a problem with the team this year…..I have a problem with how many bozos think the team is actually going somewhere this year as its currently constructed. It isnt, and I am ok with that but not trying to stear myself to believe things that simply arent true.

    And, while many of you may think otherwise over in fantasy land, arod, jeter, mariano, and posada are actually not getting younger.

  242. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    The WS Champion Yankees had 31 poor starts from Joba, and 25 from outside of the rotation.

  243. randy l. December 20th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....r-to-wang/

    last year’s day on lohud

    still had melky

  244. CoreyMac December 20th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    every team needs a bridge year…..this looks like New York’s. Boston hit a wall in the Penny/Smoltz season and are now back in the thick of things. It’s a cycle every team goes through….it just took longer to get to the Yankees because Jeter, Posada, Mariano and Pettitte refused to age…..

  245. GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Trader, Brackman would be the ideal pitcher to eventually set up and take over for Rivera, but, truthfully, I forgot about adding him to the list…right after Phelps.

  246. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Red Lobster – Yes, and outlier… but only his 4th best ERA+ of his career. I don’t think you would cut the second deviation of outliers.

  247. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 2:33 pm
    Chip,

    If there is no one now available to help the pitching, don’t you place any responsibility on Cashman for that? He is going to have a $200M payroll with grave pitching problems.

    ———————–

    Ted Lilly re-signed before the free agent period started
    Josh Beckett and Roy Halladay both signed extensions during the season
    Cliff Lee wanted to pitch in Philly

    How is any of that Brian Cashman’s fault?

    How is it Brian Cashman’s fault that the free agent pitching market is god awful?

    How would it be Cashman’s fault if Andy chose to retire?

    I think Brian believes that someone from the group of Nova, Noesi, Phelps, etc…can come in and be a reliable fifth starter but no doubt the prized pitching prospects are still a year away.

    If you want to blame Cashman for something pitching related blame him for the way the organization dismantled Joba Chamberlain.

  248. West Coast Yankee Fan December 20th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    I said it before and I will say it again. Andy Pettitte is selfish and could care less about his team and teammates. It takes 50 days to consider what you want to do?

  249. spidanyc December 20th, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Even if Pettitte does return, he’s gonna miss half the season. Are you guys content with giving Andy $15 Million for half a season?

  250. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    spidanyc – Why is he going to miss half of the season? Do you have a crystal ball?

  251. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    WCYF – That’s great, no one cares what you think about another persons decisions.

  252. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    # Hopdevil December 20th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    “why bother having one of the best rotations of all time, because it doesnt guarantee anything, so you should strive to be average.”

    LMAO. Because Greinke would’ve given us the greatest. amirite?

    Still taking things out of context…./sigh

    ———————————–

    try reading entire posts. greinke has nothing to do with anything nor did i ever say i wanted him. the context was “atlanta had an awesome staff, they only won one world series”………what more can one make of that statement?

    this is what a logical person sees when he reads that statement: “ok, rose colored glass guy/girl sees that the 2011 yankee staff is in a bad way and uses one of the greatest pitching staffs in baseball only winning one world series during their run to defend some obscure point he/she is trying to talk his/herself into.”

  253. Carl December 20th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    # spidanyc December 20th, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Even if Pettitte does return, he’s gonna miss half the season. Are you guys content with giving Andy $15 Million for half a season?

    It’s not my money.

  254. D-Man December 20th, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    WCYF – Sherman and Heyman said that Andy would be much more likely to come back if we got Lee because then he would be motivated to nurse his brittle body through a final season.

    Cashman/Girardi somewhat corroborated that when they said they talked to Andy and he told them he “really wants (us) to get Lee”.

    I think right now he is debating if it is worth it for him to put his body through another season of pain and be away from his family for a team that doesn’t look too hot at the moment. Andy doesn’t merely want to win the WC and make the playoffs, he wants to win titles.

    Let’s hope that money can convince him to come back. But it’s clear with him that he isin’t only about the money.

  255. Hopdevil December 20th, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Seems that a lot of fans want to blame Cash for not trading for pitcher X or pitcher Y…while conveniently forgetting that other teams have a say in these trades as well.

    You can’t just come up with some trade target, think up some names of guys you’d like to dump, and then blame Cashman for not making your fantasy a reality.

    Also, I’d still like to know how many and which teams in the AL are (according to paper projections based on December rosters) going to beat the Yankees for a playoff spot?

  256. West Coast Yankee Fan December 20th, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    WCYF – That’s great, no one cares what you think about another persons decisions.

    **********

    Then why did you respond? Some people can’t handle the truth.

  257. Yankee Trader December 20th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    ID-

    Now come on, Joba wasn’t terrible in all his 31 starts. He did hold the Rays to a 2.50 ERA and a .169 BA in 3 starts in 2009. Stop picking on the Michelin Man. lol.

  258. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    WCYF – You don’t speak truth, you speak crazy.

  259. West Coast Yankee Fan December 20th, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    D-Man – I understand but the longer Andy Pettitte takes to make a decision as to whether he is going to return or not, the more adverse consequences it is likely to have for the Yankees. That’s just my opinion.

    If any other employee, contract or not, told their boss they weren’t sure if they wanted to work for them and took two months to decide, who would think it was reasonable behavior.

  260. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    I almost feel like robin williams in good will hunting trying to get some of you to simply come to terms with the fact that saying this pitching rotation is a problem is ok. There is nothing wrong with admitting what is a very glaring and obvious weakness.

    “its not your fault, its not your fault, its not your fault”. IT IS OK TO FACE THE REALITY OF THE SITUATION, THE PITCHING STAFF HAS PROBLEMS.

    Now: i will defend the next 10 responses to this post so we can preempt the nonsense:
    1 – no, i am not mailing it in for the season and yes i will still be a yankee fan whether we win or lose
    2 – no, i dont blame cashman for not doing anything
    3 – no, i have no easy fixes that would rectify this
    4 – yes, i still love the yankees and will watch every game this year
    5 – no, i am not crying
    6 – no, the sky is not falling
    7 – no, i am not a troll
    8 – no, i have no intention of going home to fondle my pedroia doll
    9 – yes, i know it is december 20….i have a calendar
    10 – no, i dont need to change my diaper

  261. austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    Chip,

    You discussed a 5th starter. Who is the 4th? Finding one rookie to be decent is reasonable, but two is beyond the realm of likelihood.

    I can’t say what pitchers are or were available. GMs don’t call me. Cashman was quoted as saying their were plenty of other pitching options when he was waiting for Lee. Where are they? Was that more posturing?

    The reality is not many top flight pitchers become available. I get that. That’s why I think one must take a risk on Greinke. He has the physical ability to be one of the best.

  262. spidanyc December 20th, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    RE: Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
    spidanyc ? Why is he going to miss half of the season? Do you have a crystal ball?

    _____________________________________________________

    Look at the track record. Andy is on the DL every single year.

  263. yanks 27 December 20th, 2010 at 3:17 pm

    Only reason Andy signed that late in 2009 was because we lowballed him. He wanted to come back, he made that clear, he was even trying to involve other teams (Dodgers) if you remember.

    He finally gave into his pride and accepted the incentive-based contract. But he didn’t drag it out while he was trying to make up his mind, he dragged it out because he wanted more guaranteed money. This year, however, is the latest he has dragged out his decision.

  264. West Coast Yankee Fan December 20th, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    WCYF – You don’t speak truth, you speak crazy.

    **************

    There is nothing crazy about me having an opinion on how long Pettitte is taking to inform Cashman of his decision. It’s a perfectly reasonable point-of-view. You don’t have to agree.

  265. Carl December 20th, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play......id=5632831

    One of Joba’s best starts on 09

  266. Howe Farr December 20th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    If any other employee, contract or not, told their boss they weren’t sure if they wanted to work for them and took two months to decide, who would think it was reasonable behavior.
    _____________________________________________
    WCYF,

    What makes you think that baseball is like any other business you can relate to? Honestly, you have no idea what is going on behind closed doors. And to equate Pettitte’s decision on someone who has to decided if they are going to take a job with company x is both silly and ignorant.

    The average salary in baseball is 3 million dollars. A handful of men can compete in the majors. Although people always say its only a business, it is not a business anywhere similar to the business where you and I work.

    Don’t apply our norms to theirs. Its not the same.

  267. JWeav December 20th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Andy is not going to pitch for a team that isn’t a preseason favorite. He will not waste a precious summer away from his family, friends, & the rest of his $125,332,416 to be a “team player” and help out his fellow teammates. Then again, maybe I’m wrong about the guy. We’ll see what he’s made of these next few weeks.

  268. Howe Farr December 20th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    Look at the track record. Andy is on the DL every single year.
    —————————————————————————-

    6 of Any’s last 8 year he has pitched 190+ every time. The only two times he has missed time was in 2005 and 2010. That is not a track record.

  269. GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    spidanyc December 20th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
    RE: Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
    spidanyc ? Why is he going to miss half of the season? Do you have a crystal ball?

    _____________________________________________________

    Look at the track record. Andy is on the DL every single year.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    His track record says that he hadn’t been on the DL since 2004 until this season, nitwit.

  270. West Coast Yankee Fan December 20th, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Howe Farr – it’s my opinion that “under the circumstances”, Pettitte has taken an inordinately long time to make a decision. I also think it shows a lack of consideration to his teammates and to the employer that has paid him an awful lot of money over the years. I understand that pro sports is a unique profession, but that’s how I feel.

  271. pat December 20th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    “This was a very mediocre/average baseball team since July.”

    What you’re not ackowledging is that the mediocre team from July to October was essentially the same team who was really good team from April until July.

    Was the team the first half playing out of their minds or was the team the second half underperforming?

    I lean more toward the team the second half underperforming and perhaps all the post season visits to Orthopedists explains at least some of that.

    They need another pitcher but more importantly they need the majority of the roster to live up to potential.

  272. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Pettitte signed Jan 26th last year. He accepted arbitration (that has a deadline) in 2008.

  273. Hopdevil December 20th, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    And Pettitte is a fairly unique case in a unique business model. It’s not whether or not he wants to “work” for the Yankees – it’s whether or not he wants to “work” at all.

    He’s been talking about spending more time with the family for a good 7 years now. One of these years he’s actually going to hang up the cleats.

    In 09 he really wanted to play in the new stadium. Hard to go out after winning WS with chance to repeat – back in 2010. Had a tough year in 2010 with injuries – team bounced in playoffs.

    Of course Pettitte would’ve been more eager to play if Yanks landed Lee – at this point he is thinking short-term and Lee obviously would have enormous short-term impact.

    2011 (without Lee) could be great, could be terrible (at least by Yanks standards) or somewhere in between. Pettitte won’t be around by the time the prospects join the big show.

    I can understand why he needs time to decide. I can understand if he ultimately decides to stay home. As a fan I hope he stays – I like Pettitte and I like how it would likely help the team.

  274. Howe Farr December 20th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    I also think it shows a lack of consideration to his teammates and to the employer that has paid him an awful lot of money over the years.
    _____________________________________________________

    He doesn’t have an employer or, for that matter, teammates right now. Brian Cashman is working under the assumption that he isn’t coming back, andy pettitte told him that:

    “If we get Pettitte back, so much the better,” Cashman said. “But I’m not waiting for him. He told me not to.”

    But if you want to question his heart or whatever, you go right ahead. But Andy Pettitte has shown his worth as a baseball player and as a teammate many times over for any of us to question his motivation.

  275. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan December 20th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
    I said it before and I will say it again. Andy Pettitte is selfish and could care less about his team and teammates. It takes 50 days to consider what you want to do?

    ——————————

    Is spring training starting in January this year?

    Andy told Cashman to proceed as if he’s retiring. If he opts to come back…yay. If not, not.

    As for calling him selfish – you’re full of the stuff I scrape off my shoe. He spends 8 months of the year away from his family and doesn’t particularly enjoy that. He’s made a lot of money…which if he invested properly assures that his grandkids don’t need to work for a living. So yeah, he’s taking time to decide if playing baseball is something he still wants to do or if he doesn’t feel the pull of getting back into things.

  276. 108 stitches December 20th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    20 game winners aren’t seen around much anymore like in years past.
    Even if a team has three 20-game winners and plans to win 95-100 games, 35+ wins has to come from the bullpen, callups, or any deals made.
    As it stands now, only C.C. and Hughes could be reasonably expected to come close enough for 20 wins.
    Even if Larry Rothschild does a miracle job with Burnett, he wouldn’t provide any more than 12-15 wins as the pitcher of record.
    Any way it’s looked at, the Yankees still need a proven winner with at least 5-years of major league experience.
    Seldom does a newbie from the minor league system step up and produce 15+ wins in his rookie year.

  277. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    # pat December 20th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    “This was a very mediocre/average baseball team since July.”

    What you’re not ackowledging is that the mediocre team from July to October was essentially the same team who was really good team from April until July.

    Was the team the first half playing out of their minds or was the team the second half underperforming?

    I lean more toward the team the second half underperforming and perhaps all the post season visits to Orthopedists explains at least some of that.

    They need another pitcher but more importantly they need the majority of the roster to live up to potential.
    ————————————–

    Completely agree with this read. I do expect the offense to more resemble the first half offense of last year……the pitching however leaves me less confident.

  278. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    I swear – there are some of you on this board who are whining so much lately you would think that you got stiffed on the new bike you wanted for Christmas.

  279. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    # Hopdevil December 20th, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    I can understand why he needs time to decide. I can understand if he ultimately decides to stay home. As a fan I hope he stays – I like Pettitte and I like how it would likely help the team.

    ———————————–

    I too obviously hope he stays, if for no other reason then my belief that he deserves a proper send off. I would like nothing more than him to return and given everyone the opportunity to appreciate and thank him for his time here. “I am coming back for the 2011 season, it will undoubtedly be my last”. Would love to hear that. He deserves to hear from the fans how much he has meant. Like Paulie did.

  280. P December 20th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    # Chip December 20th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    I swear – there are some of you on this board who are whining so much lately you would think that you got stiffed on the new bike you wanted for Christmas.

    —-

    A lot of people have this view until the season is midway through and when the team sucks those that were overly optimistic are nowhere to be found. The yanks themselves are not happy with how things have turned out so far, so why is it so hard to believe that people should not be concerned?

  281. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    # P December 20th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    # Chip December 20th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    I swear – there are some of you on this board who are whining so much lately you would think that you got stiffed on the new bike you wanted for Christmas.

    —-

    A lot of people have this view until the season is midway through and when the team sucks those that were overly optimistic are nowhere to be found. The yanks themselves are not happy with how things have turned out so far, so why is it so hard to believe that people should not be concerned?
    ———
    The poster you speak with here has made it very obvious that if you see problems with the Yankees then you are not a real fan. that is his view, it is unwavering.

  282. Hopdevil December 20th, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Carlo, completely agree on a Pettitte send off. It’s one of the unfortunate side effects of deciding after the season. Obviously I give Pettitte a lot of credit for not pulling a Favre or Jordan where he says “This is it” and then decides to return. But it would be cool to be able to give Pettitte a Paulie moment as opposed to waiting for an old-timers day, etc.

  283. West Coast Yankee Fan December 20th, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Good for you Chip. Funny, I don’t mind you having an opinion on Pettitte albeit different than mine with the “stuff on bottom of shoe” reference. I respect your right to have an opinion. Good for you and thanks for sharing it.

  284. clownthrowindown December 20th, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    Pettitte does his annual diva retirement process but he’s not like Favre?

    Just like he did HGH but isn’t like the other cheaters?

    Saint Andy sure gets a free ride…

  285. jeffmarx000 December 28th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    testing123


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