The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Panic and patience

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 20, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

At some point yesterday morning, around the time the Zack Greinke news spread to major media outlets, the state of panic in the Yankees fan base seemed to reach a new peak for this offseason.

The concern was very mild when the Derek Jeter negotiations turned sour. Then the Red Sox traded for Adrian Gonzalez. Then the Red Sox signed Carl Crawford. Then Philadelphia got Cliff Lee. Then Milwaukee landed Greinke. One by one, big pieces have come off the board, and all the Yankees have done is re-sign two of their own plus a catcher who hasn’t hit in two years.

My question is this: Is the concern centered on wanting the Yankees to do something or wanting them to do anything? In other words, is there something specific Brian Cashman has done wrong and needs to fix, or are his patience and silence making things uncomfortable?

Cashman hasn’t done much, but I’m not sure he’s truly missed out on very much either. I would never argue that he’s had a good offseason, but looking at a few common complaints, it might also be too early to claim he’s had a bad one.

Red Sox CrawfordTop free agents got away
Jayson Werth and Carl Crawford signed before Cliff Lee, and that essentially kept the Yankees out of the running for either of them. Outfield wasn’t a priority, pitching was, and Lee might or might not have been a fair fight. Otherwise, the biggest free agents who fit with the Yankees, signed with the Yankees: Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera.

Trade targets have gone elsewhere
There was obvious frustration yesterday when Zack Greinke landed in Milwaukee for a package of young players that did not include a single premier prospect, but the Yankees didn’t match what the Royals were looking for in up the middle talent. It’s not even certain the Yankees considered Greinke a viable option in New York. Otherwise, most completed trades have been for players who either didn’t fit for the Yankees (Adrian Gonzalez, Dan Uggla) or are infinitely replaceable (Brendan Ryan, Josh Willingham). Those deals to not make or break the Yankees season.

ALCS Rangers Yankees BaseballThe lineup has not improved
The lineup didn’t need to improve. The Yankees scored the most runs in baseball last season, and that was despite down years from Jeter, Mark Teixeira and Alex Rodriguez. The one position that needed a boost, catcher, has been addressed with a reasonable $4-million deal with Russell Martin. It would have been surprising to see the Yankees overhaul the lineup. Staying with more or less the same starting nine is not a shock, nor should it be a cause for concern.

The rotation still has holes
This is true. Andy Pettitte still hasn’t made a decision, and that’s as expected. Lee was supposed to make everything better, but he signed elsewhere despite a bigger offer from the Yankees. At the time, Cashman said he would be patient, that the cost in terms of both free agents and trade chips would go through the roof for a while. That was less than a week ago. In that time, who, aside from Greinke, has come off the board who would have helped the Yankees rotation?

ALCS Yankees Rangers BaseballThe bullpen still has holes
Perhaps the most legitimate gripe of the Yankees offseason. The team hasn’t necessarily been stingy — it did award the second largest left-handed reliever contract of the winter — but it hasn’t been aggressive either. The relief market still has plenty of viable options, but the a lot of late-inning options have come off the board (some on surprisingly large and lengthy deals, but that’s the going rate for relievers these days).

Eduardo Nunez is the best hitter on the bench
Not to knock on Noony, but the Yankees bench remains incredibly young and inexperienced, but it should come as no shock that Cashman is taking his time finding reserves and role players. Last year he let the market for Marcus Thames fall all the way to a minor league deal, and that was arguably his best offseason signing. The Randy Winn deal, of course, didn’t work so well. The Yankees still have a very real need for a fourth outfielder, and an experienced utility man wouldn’t hurt, but there are plenty of those options available.

Associated Press photos of Crawford, Rodriguez and Kerry Wood

 
 

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346 Responses to “Panic and patience”

  1. upstate kate December 20th, 2010 at 8:59 am

    that post is much too reasonable Chad :)

  2. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 9:01 am

    Another great post Chad.

    Thanks for your hard work.

  3. Erin December 20th, 2010 at 9:04 am

    Chad-great post. :)

  4. BIG AL December 20th, 2010 at 9:06 am

    Got to go, things need doing.

  5. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 9:06 am

    Let’s hope AP returns.

    I think he will. I hope he will.

    Would love to have him wrapped up and under our Xmas tree.

    Great present to ourselves.

  6. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 9:06 am

    Al-

    Have good day.

  7. upstate kate December 20th, 2010 at 9:07 am

    MTU
    better than a puppy?
    better than Ernie and Bert mittens?

  8. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 9:07 am

    edit: “have a good day”. That’s what happens when your fingers work faster than your brain.

    :(

  9. Erin December 20th, 2010 at 9:08 am

    kate-my Bert mittens finally came on Saturday!!! I love them. :)

  10. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 9:08 am

    Kate-

    Nothing is better than a puppy !

  11. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 9:10 am

    So…..

    Who won the greinke contest? :P

  12. Fran the original December 20th, 2010 at 9:17 am

    Nothing is better than a puppy
    **********************
    MTU,

    I had FiOS installed on Saturday and it is really good. Certainly better than Time Warner and maybe even better than a puppy ;)

  13. JWeav December 20th, 2010 at 9:18 am

    Freddy to the rescue!!

  14. Erin December 20th, 2010 at 9:18 am

    SI_JonHeyman #mets, #yankees and others have asked for medicals on freddy garcia, the 2nd best free-agent pitcher left, after pavano

  15. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 9:19 am

    My question is this: Is the concern centered on wanting the Yankees to do something or? wanting them to do anything?? In other words, is there something specific Brian Cashman has done wrong and needs to fix, or are his patience and silence making things uncomfortable?

    Chad –

    Honeslty . Theres nothing specific Cashman has done wrong. Lee wanted to go to Philly , Crawford and Werth wanted way too much money. However I wish Cashman was a little more agressive when it came to Grienke.

  16. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 9:19 am

    Fran-

    Does FiOS come up and lick your face in the morning, and love you no matter what ?

    Maybe it does ?

    :)

  17. Doreen December 20th, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Great post, Chad.

    IOW, I agree. :lol:

  18. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Well said Chad.

    This is a team that won what – 95 games last year? They haven’t lost anyone that I think we would consider irreplaceable and have, in fact, improved the DH spot and the pen from where it was last year while getting considerably better defensively behind the dish.

    The issue is that people see Boston making all these big name moves and are terrified that they’re going to overtake the Yankees.

    Don’t get me wrong, Boston (if healthy) looks like a tremendous team right now – but they had to make a ton of moves to replace two key players who have departed (Beltre and V-Mart) and overhaul a terrible bullpen. They are attrocious behind the plate and still relying heavily on guys coming off major injuries or ones who have proven to be injury prone.

    Tampa has been slowly dissected losing their 1b, SS, LF, and entire bullpen. Like the Rays the Twins pen has been taken apart as well.

    The question will be whether or not the Wild Card this year comes out of the East or Central since Chicago and Detroit have made some strides this winter.

  19. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Freddy Garcia.

    Man. that’s inspiring. Let’s get Moyer too. He’s a lefty.

    :(

  20. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 9:26 am

    I think we go on a hunt and find that ancient third baseman who used play for us.

    His name escapes me now.

    That would really round things out for us.

    I hope we can find him. There are a lot of rest homes out there though.

    :)

  21. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 9:26 am

    I wouldn’t mind seeing the Yankees take advantage of what is clearly a team on the rebuild in KC now. No, I don’t mean Soria…I’m talking back of the rotation guys like Kyle Davies and Luke Hochevar and maybe a guy like Mike Avilas for the bench.

  22. JWeav December 20th, 2010 at 9:28 am

    Who do you expect to get? Cliff Lee…A lot of spoiled babies around here. Just stack the pen, bring the kids up, and play ball. I would rather win 82 games and watch the kids grow than win 93 and get smacked around in the playoffs after selling the farm for vets with question marks.

  23. Fran the original December 20th, 2010 at 9:30 am

    Chad,

    I don’t think that Cashman has done anything wrong. But all we have heard from Cashman and Girardi this off-season is “pitching, pitching, pitching.” The starting rotation has holes and there is no EIG in the bullpen.

    I think that Cashman needs to make some moves, but I do realize that there are still 2 months left before the start of spring training and I am confident that those holes will be filled.

  24. randy l. December 20th, 2010 at 9:31 am

    randy l -

    What kind of sacrifice did you have in mind?

    doreen-

    well, historically virgins work best.

    how about lgy?

  25. hardwired7 December 20th, 2010 at 9:34 am

    We’ll have to wait to see what Pettitte decides.

    If he hangs them up, then it might be time to start breathing into a paper bag.

  26. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 9:38 am

    I like Garcia signing if we can get it done. Have to be patient though and need to be careful we dont tie up the phone line talking to his agent while Andy is trying to get in touch. Garcia has about 1/5th of the stuff he once had, but he knows how to get hitters out and does a respectable job in big games.

    Last year he had 5 outings where he didnt get an out in the 4th inning.

    If I exclude those 5 outings, he actually was very respectable in his other 22 starts.

    12-1
    3.33 ERA

    Granted, its hard to just cherry pick games, but when he doesnt have it, he gets killed early and when he does, he gives quality starts. I can imagine in some of those 5 starts, our offense could have battled back to win a game or two as well.

    This would be a good pickup in my opinion.

  27. Doreen December 20th, 2010 at 9:38 am

    randy l -

    I guess LGY will do. ;)

  28. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 9:39 am

    I would rather win 82 games and watch the kids grow than win 93 and get smacked around in the playoffs after selling the farm for vets with question marks.
    -
    ————–

    Sorry . .i’ll pass on that . . . Thats how the Pittsburgh Pirates talk

  29. YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 9:39 am

    no panic here, and fortunatly no panic in cashman either. I’m good with this team, filled out for ST, maybe pick up another back of rotation guy. the yankees need some SP’s to step up and i believe they will respond. i expect phil to take over the #2 rotation spot so pettitte, aj and whoever just need to hold down the back of the rotation. TB is down and the Sox will be better.
    I concede NOTHING! this team won the WS with a rotation of cc, aj, petitte joba and wang. we can and will do better than that group by opening day and others will be available as the season goes on if our group doesnt get it done.
    Bring on those Red Socks!

  30. hardwired7 December 20th, 2010 at 9:39 am

    I still think over $20M/per for Crawford is nuts, and I’m glad Cashman wanted no part of that.

  31. UpState December 20th, 2010 at 9:41 am

    MTU December 20th, 2010 at 9:26 am
    I think we go on a hunt and find that ancient third baseman who used play for us.

    His name escapes me now.

    That would really round things out for us.

    I hope we can find him. There are a lot of rest homes out there though.
    ========================================

    Celerino Sanchez.

  32. randy l. December 20th, 2010 at 9:46 am

    “I guess LGY will do.”

    doreen-

    we could have mtu find a volcano to throw gb7 in , but the volcano would probably just spit him back out .

  33. CountryClub December 20th, 2010 at 9:47 am

    Other than a reliever or two and some bench players, the Yanks only need this off season was starting pitching. The problem is that there was only one pitcher out there worth signing. So when that pitcher signed elsewhere, there really wasnt much for the Yanks to do.

    You can complain about greinke if you want, but it appears the Yanks didnt have the position players that KC wanted (if NY was even interested).

    The money that the supposed A list relievers got this yr is insane. I’ve mentioned it before, but I’m sure the Yanks think some of their pitching in the minors will come up and help fortify the pen. And if not, they can always makea trade in the summer.

    I still think the best plan of action right now is to sign Pettitte (fingers crossed that he wants to play) and then go into the season with the team they have. A big pitcher will become available before the trade deadline…one always does.

  34. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 9:47 am

    kate-

    Thanks for tryin’ to help me out.

    That’s not the name I was looking for. He was a utility guy for us a few years back (mostly tried to play third) and everyone used to make fun of his age (At least I did) ?

    Oh well. My Alzheimer’s is acting up again.

    That’s why it’s no country for old men.

    Geez. Where did I put my car keys ?

    :)

  35. randy l. December 20th, 2010 at 9:48 am

    doreen-

    i’d suggest cashman , but think you’re supposed to sacrifice something valuable :)

  36. LGY December 20th, 2010 at 9:49 am

    “how about lgy?”

    ——————–

    Fortunately I’m safe because you old fogies will be sound asleep and snoring by 11 pm. It’s a weeknight ya know!

  37. JWeav December 20th, 2010 at 9:49 am

    I think the patience Cashman is talking about is in 12-14 month range. Not the next few weeks.

  38. YES December 20th, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Yankees should get R. Soriano.

    He would solidify the 8th, be insurance in the event Mo gets hurt (he is in his 40′s), and take over the closer’s role in 2 yrs. when Mo retires.

    Boston has Bard for the 8th, & still went out and signed Jenks as a bridge to Pappelbon.

    With Soriano, Joba & Robertson can pitch in the 6th & 7th. With the 2 lefty’s (Boone & Feliciano) our bullpen would be the best in MLB.

    That would carry us to July where we might find a solid #2 on the trade market at that point.

  39. upstate kate December 20th, 2010 at 9:50 am

    sorry, that wasn’t me MTU…altho I remember who you mean…PeteAbe used to make jokes about how old he was all the time.

  40. YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 9:51 am

    miguel cairo? (he’s 36)

  41. CountryClub December 20th, 2010 at 9:53 am

    SI_JonHeyman #royals sought montero & nunez from #yankees for greinke, who told kc he’d go. but yanks werent convinced ny was right for kid

  42. tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 9:53 am

    I really don’t think we are that bad off. Cashman has been extra patient but he did address two bing issues in that he got a catcher who is a big defensive upgrade than what we had. And he got a lefty which was another need. All we have to do now is hope for Andy to return, if he does then I wouldn’t mind giving the 5th spot to Nova or Noesi or someone else. We did fine last year with questions in the rotation and I don’t see why we can’t this year
    To win the World Series you have to beat the best and I think come spring, our team will be ready to compete.

  43. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 9:53 am

    YES December 20th, 2010 at 9:50 am
    Yankees should get R. Soriano.

    ——————-

    No, they shouldn’t.

  44. J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 9:55 am

    JWeav December 20th, 2010 at 9:28 am

    I would rather win 82 games and watch the kids grow than win 93 and get smacked around in the playoffs after selling the farm for vets with question marks.

    ///a thousand times, yes.but that’s the worst-case scenario.this team can win 93 games without making a big move,and not necessarily get smacked around in the playoffs.but if your worst-case came true,with the lineup another yr older heading into 2012,how much more refreshing and crucial it will become to have a precocious SP of the future getting his feet wet in the Bronx?Barring injury,I have no doubts that one of Betances or ManBan will be fast-tracking their way north and one will be given a look by then.Both guys already have polish that I think would astound commenters here who are tossing their names into every trade proposal (Betances in particular they throw about like he’s a middling-t0-good prospect rather than the freak of nature potential monster front-rotation prospect close to the majors that he is).In 2013 these kids could BOTH be in there building innings and helping the Bronx team win,meanwhile CC and Hughes will still be dealing for us and Montero hopefully will be firmly anchored in the middle of the order to be the righthand man of Robbie Cano.If we don’t trade ABrack,he could be the closer,unless they are still grooming him to start,as they seem to be and as they should unless he features better in the pen.when you have that kind of pitching and you’ve turned the offense over to Montero,Cano and to Tex,who will still be fairly young,ur not as dependent on aging guys like Jete and ARod and they can comfortably contribute without feeling the weight of the Ruth legacy upon them.those guys relaxed and rested while the younger kids take center stage is the ideal way to glide into their senior yankee yrs,with grace and a great deal of foundational support.meanwhile,the pitching just goes through the roof because like I said the two kids down in AA are much more shellacked and ready for mantle display than pple could even suspect they just need to remain healthy.this is what we’ve been dreaming of,ushering in the new generation of arms or having them planted in the rotation and beginning to push up buds while guys like CC and Hughes are in full bloom,that way you don’t have that uncomfortable gap of barren soil that gets created when you upchuck the farm for some veteran who you get heisted for and get stuck in the mediocrity you so well described.wow that’s quite a mouthful,but thems the straight goods.

  45. YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 9:55 am

    wilson betemit? (listed as 29?) traded for swisher wasnt it?

  46. LGY December 20th, 2010 at 9:56 am

    Unless Soriano came down to the $6-8 million per year range and only 2 years, he is not even worth considering.

    Fangraphs had an article about relievers who got 3+ year deals in the past 4 years. ”

    “12 relievers were deemed worthy of long term deals as free agents. Half of them performed below replacement level and were a complete waste of money. Four of them were simply disappointments, ending up as semi-productive relievers making far too much money. One of them had a good first year, but still has to justify the decision with two years remaining on the deal. And the other is Mariano Rivera”

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....ear-deals/

    Relievers are just too damn volatile. Soriano is already 31 years old and I believe 2009 and 2010 are the only years in his career where he didn’t suffer an arm injury.

    $10+ million over 3+ year is not even close to worth it for him. That would be nuts for the Yankees to do. In addition to giving the Rays a first round pick directly helping their competitors.

    If you can’t trade for a starter now, you don’t spend all of the Cliff Lee money. You save it and hope you can pick up an expensive starter at the trade deadline.

  47. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 9:57 am

    Kate-

    Sorry. My mistake.

  48. CountryClub December 20th, 2010 at 9:57 am

    I sure hope Pena isnt the utility infielder next yr.

    Here are his stats from the Mexican winter league:

    Ramiro Pena: 27 G, 23 for 100, 11 R, 6 2B, 1 HR, 13 RBI, 10 BB, 20 K, 1 CS (.230/.297/.320)

  49. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Y’s guy-

    Nope. That’s not the magic name. thanks for tryin’ though.

  50. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 9:58 am

    “I have no doubts that one of Betances or ManBan will be fast-tracking their way north and one will be given a look by then”

    Just out of curiosity – when was the last time the Yankees engaged in the practice of fast tracking a pitcher?

    And a follow up – when was the last time such a strategy worked for the Yankees in the long term? Certainly didn’t pay off with Joba or Kennedy.

  51. upstate kate December 20th, 2010 at 9:59 am

    Angel Berroa!!!

  52. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 10:00 am

    Chip-

    Follow up.

    When was the last time the Yankees had a development plan for young pitchers ?

    :)

  53. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 10:00 am

    Kate-

    That’s the one ! Thanks. :)

  54. UpState December 20th, 2010 at 10:00 am

    MTU December 20th, 2010 at 9:26 am
    I think we go on a hunt and find that ancient third baseman who used play for us.

    His name escapes me now.

    That would really round things out for us.

    I hope we can find him. There are a lot of rest homes out there though.
    ====================================
    ====================================

    Wilson Betemit* Third Base 2007-2008

    Morgan Ensberg Third Base 2008

    Butch Hobson Third Base 1982

    Jerry Kenney Third Base 1967-1972

    Rich McKinney Third Base 1972

    Aurelio Rodriguez Third Base 1980-1981

    Jerry Royster Third Base 1987

    Celerino Sanchez Third Base 1972-1973

    Pete Ward Third Base 1970

    Todd Zeile Third Base 2003

  55. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 10:01 am

    Kate-

    Can we get him ? Do you think there’s a chance he might still be available ?

  56. austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 10:01 am

    I don’t think people want Cashman just to do anything, but the role of a GM in the off-season is to improve the team. He has said they needed pitching, pitching and pitching. So far, no Wood, maybe no Pettitte and added Feliciano. The pitching is clearly worse.

    Cashman said there were alternatives to improving pitching. I don’t see Martin as that alternative offensive improvement.

    What would I like? A team that has more than two pitchers who can go 6 innings, a bullpen that has a reliable EIG, and a bench that can actually contribute offensively. I don’t see any of that happening between now and the season except, we all pray Pettitte returns.

    The Yankee patience has evolved into non-action with few alternative approaches now available.

  57. Mgumpher December 20th, 2010 at 10:01 am

    MTU, wasn’t it Angel Berroa?

  58. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 10:02 am

    Call me what you will, but I have an overwhelming desire to see the Yankees sign Manny Ramirez to a one year incentive laden deal to play a bit of left field and DH. Incentives plus a return home could go a long way in getting a very productive season out of the goon.

  59. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 10:02 am

    UpState-

    Thank you. We have identified our target.

    I’m going to hope and pray that Cashman reads the blog.

  60. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 10:03 am

    # Mgumpher December 20th, 2010 at 10:01 am

    MTU, wasn’t it Angel Berroa?
    ——————————–

    Yes, thats 100% who it was.

  61. Rich in NJ December 20th, 2010 at 10:03 am

    I’m not panicked, I’m not concerned.

  62. J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 10:03 am

    JWeav December 20th, 2010 at 9:49 am
    I think the patience Cashman is talking about is in 12-14 month range. Not the next few weeks.

    ///it SHOULD be that range.I’m keeping my fingers crossed on that.

  63. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 10:03 am

    Mgumpher-

    Yes. that’s our man. Thanks.

  64. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2010 at 10:04 am

    Chip December 20th, 2010 at 9:58 am
    “I have no doubts that one of Betances or ManBan will be fast-tracking their way north and one will be given a look by then”

    Just out of curiosity – when was the last time the Yankees engaged in the practice of fast tracking a pitcher?

    And a follow up – when was the last time such a strategy worked for the Yankees in the long term? Certainly didn’t pay off with Joba or Kennedy.
    ______________
    You can’t collapse pitchers. Joba and Kennedy were a whole different beast. Cash *rushed* them with Hughes b/c he was giddy about his new-found toy, the farm system. Then, b/c of the “failure,” which was more a lack of desire to go with the growing pains, Cash went the other way and got free agent happy. Now hopefully, older and wiser, Cash realizes he must develop and not rush his pitchers. He must combine judicious FA signings and wheeling and dealing when the cost isn’t prohibitive with a home-grown product. We can do all three, but the former two *only* when we are being smart in terms of cost or prospects we give up. Patience should continue to be our modus operandi.

  65. YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 10:04 am

    we’re not looking for a pitcher to come up and win 18 games and vie for rookie of the year. we just need someone who can give us depth, become a reliable 6th starter and take up slack when it comes to injuries and starters who need a rest. if one guy steps up and can give them 10 decent major league starts, that would be huge contribution next year.
    i dont call that fast tracking, thats just a young guy taking advantage of an opening on a team with a stacked offense.
    SP depth is our weakness but our minor league pitching talent can and i believe will step up and give us what we need.
    i dont call that ‘fast tracking’ a pitcher, i just call it contributing to the cause and i think we’ve got some guys who can do it.

  66. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 10:04 am

    # CountryClub December 20th, 2010 at 9:57 am

    I sure hope Pena isnt the utility infielder next yr.

    Here are his stats from the Mexican winter league:

    Ramiro Pena: 27 G, 23 for 100, 11 R, 6 2B, 1 HR, 13 RBI, 10 BB, 20 K, 1 CS (.230/.297/.320)
    ————————————————————–

    It can be said that we saw enough of him in the major leagues to know he was terrible.

  67. Phranchise December 20th, 2010 at 10:04 am

    Where does the panic lie? We don’t have a starting rotation. We have Hughes and CC who I think you heavily rely on right now. AJ needs to be fixed. We still have no Andy and we have a rookie as the fifth starter. Aceves is done. Mosley is gone. So with rookie starters (as we saw the year we depended on Hughes and Kennedy), that has all the makings of blowing up in our faces. Plus, we are assuming that CC and the rest stay healthy. Right now it just has the ability to go south quickly. DO we need Greinke or Lee, probably not to win. But we do need arms. At least a guy like Bonderman who was promising and young. The issue is with these guys they are banged up too. And with lack of depth in the bullpen, you are once again pushing guys for heavy innings and depending on Mo at his age. As names have come off the board, the big relief market has dwindled and as it has the salaries have gone up. Basically we are saying that we will let the rookies play into roles and pray that this team comes out of the gates well and healthy enough to allow for potential bigger moves during the season. That’s it. So rather than worrying about trades, I am more eager for spring training to see how much we can hope to get out of the youngsters and see if AJ and Joba get back on track.

  68. LGY December 20th, 2010 at 10:05 am

    “The pitching is clearly worse.”

    ——————–

    As long as Andy comes back this is very likely not true. If he doesn’t it actually isn’t still clear.

    I don’t think people realize how bad the staff was last year for most of the year. The 2nd half of the season they were one of the worst teams in baseball pitching wise.

    At the very least replacing Nova with Vaz, a below replacement level pitcher, was an improvement. Burnett, another basically replacement level pitcher, working with Rotschild hopefully will be an improvement as well.

  69. AldotheApache December 20th, 2010 at 10:06 am

    LGY, your 9:56 post is pretty much on the money.

    Multi-year contracts for middle relievers has a poor history of success, and the Yankees have not been an exception, save for Mariano (pun intended).

  70. J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 10:07 am

    Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 10:02 am
    Call me what you will, but I have an overwhelming desire to see the Yankees sign Manny Ramirez to a one year incentive laden deal to play a bit of left field and DH. Incentives plus a return home could go a long way in getting a very productive season out of the goon.

    ///I would have no problem with Ramirez’s bat but I can’t see him in left it would be like a fish out of water and DH isn’t available.love that bat though and yes it would be a homecoming for the Washington Heights slugger who lived out his boyhood uptown.but there’s just nowhere to put him.that sure would be a great bat to have around and esp with montero up.I don’t care what pple say Manny Knows Hittin’.but can’t see it.

  71. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 10:07 am

    LGY December 20th, 2010 at 10:05 am

    “The pitching is clearly worse.”

    ——————–

    I don’t think people realize how bad the staff was last year for most of the year. The 2nd half of the season they were one of the worst teams in baseball pitching wise.

    ————————————————————-

    I realize. They were horrible.

  72. Nick in SF December 20th, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Patience is for chumps; I’m ready for the parade. :mad:

  73. Phranchise December 20th, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Willy Aybar and maybe Ankiel would make nice bench additions I would think and solidify the team quite quickly.

    Get Andy back on board and then get Bonderman or not my favorites, but Freddy Garcia. Otherwise I would target Buerhle in a trade or one of the White Sox guys.

    Then get another veteran bullpen arm out there.

    I also wouldn’t mind a flyer on Dushecerer for a long relief, bullpen role. The guy has succeeded in both roles and would be a nice bit of insurance on both fronts if he is healthy enough.

  74. mick December 20th, 2010 at 10:09 am

    The rs had the Major holes to fill not us.
    If we lost Tex, we’d go after Agon.
    The winter’s too long for most people , give me , get me, it’s the holiday spirit.
    If last year is a precursor to this, then the rs need some starting pitching.
    The proof will be in the results, nothing is certain.

  75. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 10:09 am

    MTU December 20th, 2010 at 10:00 am
    Chip-

    Follow up.

    When was the last time the Yankees had a development plan for young pitchers ?

    ————————-

    They always have plans – just not very good ones.

  76. YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    “Call me what you will, but I have an overwhelming desire to see the Yankees sign Manny Ramirez to a one year incentive laden deal to play a bit of left field and DH.”

    -will this ever end? at least at this point, we’re talking about a washed-up has-been, sign him for pennies and maybe he gives you something kinda Manny. but it would still be Manny despoiling the pinstripes.

  77. Mell December 20th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    “Cashman said there were alternatives to improving pitching. I don’t see Martin as that alternative offensive improvement.”

    I don’t either, but he is a defensive improvement inasmuch as he can slow down the running game. Yankees were dead last in the AL in %age of runners thrown out stealing last year. That’s hard to do when you’re in the same league as the Red Sox.

    Additionally, his sub .700 OPSing aside the past couple years, Martin is not an automatic out. He’s been good for a .350 OBP and will make a pitcher work a little. Don’t expect any pop at all, but if he’s throws out 30% of would be basestealers and gets on base 35% of the time at or near the bottom of the order, that’s not to bad.

  78. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    # J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 10:07 am

    Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 10:02 am
    Call me what you will, but I have an overwhelming desire to see the Yankees sign Manny Ramirez to a one year incentive laden deal to play a bit of left field and DH. Incentives plus a return home could go a long way in getting a very productive season out of the goon.

    ///I would have no problem with Ramirez’s bat but I can’t see him in left it would be like a fish out of water and DH isn’t available.love that bat though and yes it would be a homecoming for the Washington Heights slugger who lived out his boyhood uptown.but there’s just nowhere to put him.that sure would be a great bat to have around and esp with montero up.I don’t care what pple say Manny Knows Hittin’.but can’t see it.

    ————————————————————————-

    I cant see it either……but I also do not see posada as a valuable DH. He simply isnt that good of a hitter and out bench lacks and has consistently lacked pop/threats. Manny wouldnt be great in left field, but i doubt he would be worse than Thames and when he plays left, chances are Gardner would be in center assuming a lefty is on the mound and Granderson goes to the bench. Gardy covers enough ground to neutralize Manny’s inability.

    I admit Manny’s bat has slowed, but I still; believe he has something left in the tank….he is just coming around to life off the Boston juice. Takes a few years, like tommy john surgery.

  79. AldotheApache December 20th, 2010 at 10:11 am

    what am I thinking? lumping Mo with middle relievers! I need coffee!!!!!!

  80. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2010 at 10:11 am

    How is the pitching (SP) worse. AJ has no where to go but up.

    As for the pen, we still have the time and ability to fill it in, and the “established” RP’s everyone is craving are overpaid and more importantly, no guarantee to pitch well out of the pen, considering the fickle nature of relievers anyway. I liked the Feliciano signing. One more good signing, plus kids coming out of the pen, and we are set.

  81. Phranchise December 20th, 2010 at 10:12 am

    Development plans for young pitchers are always fairly funny. Because there are plans, but for the Yankees, you can’t really have a good one. It would mean living thru the growing pains. And there were countless people wanting to trade Hughes away because he was a bust. And people still want to trade him now even at his age where he is no where close to his prime and still learning how to pitch.

    The good news is unlike Hughes and Kennedy, Nova I believe has had much more experience before being tossed out there and won’t be on an innings limit either I believe.

  82. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 10:12 am

    # YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    but it would still be Manny despoiling the pinstripes.

    ——————————————————–

    Dont sweat it, Giambi already handled that.

  83. J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 10:12 am

    Chip December 20th, 2010 at 9:58 am
    “I have no doubts that one of Betances or ManBan will be fast-tracking their way north and one will be given a look by then”

    Just out of curiosity – when was the last time the Yankees engaged in the practice of fast tracking a pitcher?

    And a follow up – when was the last time such a strategy worked for the Yankees in the long term? Certainly didn’t pay off with Joba or Kennedy.

    ///it wouldn’t be the yankees rushing the two,they are in need of innings and not much more.like I said,they are giving off a shimmer they’re so precocious and polished.they would fast-track because of where they are at,not because they were being prematurely shoved forward.really Chip,I see your objection as valid in yr eyes,but you have not seen either guy and therefore general statements sound a hollow note.seeing is believing,go visit Waterfront Park to see each in a couple of starts then you get back to me,deal?

  84. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 10:13 am

    Phranchise December 20th, 2010 at 10:08 am
    Willy Aybar and maybe Ankiel would make nice bench additions I would think and solidify the team quite quickly.

    ——————-

    I see nothing wrong with those two guys for the bench.

  85. austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 10:13 am

    The Yankees have, we hope, good pitching prospects in A and AA. They don’t have much rady to pitch in the majors. I don’t see a rotation of Nova and Noesi succeeding? Who else can pitch in April?

    The Yankees have previously waited until the trading deadline to pick up pieces. This year they are waiting to pick up starting pitching. That is a big difference. Many teams will want the same thing, and to acquire it will be difficult to get.

    If Pettitte does not come back, this team will be far back by the deadline. Why do I say that? Check out how the team did last August and September with this rotation. At least then they had Wood in the pen.

  86. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 10:13 am

    Everybody does things differently and in their own way.

    That’s what makes the world go round.

    Me. When I go to the bank to take out some money I want the comfort of KNOWING it’s there not just hoping it is.

    What is in the Yankees bank right now, or in the near future, real money to take out and use, or just the hope of real money that might just turn out to be a mirage ?

    There isn’t a right or wrong here. just a difference of approach.

    I hope people don’t continue to beat each other over the head because of it.

    Hopefully, things are gonna work out for #28 either way.

    We’re all Yankee fans afterall.

    :)

  87. J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Nick in SF December 20th, 2010 at 10:08 am
    Patience is for chumps; I’m ready for the parade.
    ///in that case expect rain.

  88. ac1 December 20th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    #royals sought montero & nunez from #yankees for greinke, who told kc he’d go. but yanks werent convinced ny was right for kid
    __

    They must have really been concerned about Greinke’s mental toughness because that is basically a 1-1 deal with a nunez mixed in.

  89. AldotheApache December 20th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Personally, I like the idea of Manny’s rh bat, but he’s strictly a dh, thus not a fit.

    Not with Jorge around.

  90. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Carlo, how is Posada not a good hitter? What are you basing this opinion on? Decent OBP, switchy, and a lefty to boot. A well-rested Posada at DH could be a boon. Bet his SLG improves also.

    Manny’s bat is kind of tempting and kind of not, if you know what I mean. His defense in left is a joke.

  91. blake December 20th, 2010 at 10:15 am

    Im still not sure who Patience is or what position he plays or if he’s a type A or Type B but he has to be better than Freddy Garcia right?……

  92. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2010 at 10:15 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 10:14 am
    Nick in SF December 20th, 2010 at 10:08 am
    Patience is for chumps; I’m ready for the parade.
    ///in that case expect rain.
    ______
    Patience is more “parade-proof” than the alternative. ;)

  93. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 10:12 am
    Chip December 20th, 2010 at 9:58 am
    “I have no doubts that one of Betances or ManBan will be fast-tracking their way north and one will be given a look by then”

    Just out of curiosity – when was the last time the Yankees engaged in the practice of fast tracking a pitcher?

    And a follow up – when was the last time such a strategy worked for the Yankees in the long term? Certainly didn’t pay off with Joba or Kennedy.

    ///it wouldn’t be the yankees rushing the two,they are in need of innings and not much more.like I said,they are giving off a shimmer they’re so precocious and polished.they would fast-track because of where they are at,not because they were being prematurely shoved forward.really Chip,I see your objection as valid in yr eyes,but you have not seen either guy and therefore general statements sound a hollow note.seeing is believing,go visit Waterfront Park to see each in a couple of starts then you get back to me,deal?

    ———————————–

    You’re correct – I haven’t seen either guy first hand. But I have seen other guys both with the Yankees and other teams try to make the jump to the majors.

    I think that expecting two kids with 14 and 15 innings pitched above A Ball to contribute this year in the majors is a little bit of a stretch.

    Of the three – maybe – maybe – Brackman will don pinstripes this season; but the other two? I’m thinking that if they get to AAA this year it will be impressive enough.

  94. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    blake December 20th, 2010 at 10:15 am
    Im still not sure who Patience is or what position he plays or if he’s a type A or Type B but he has to be better than Freddy Garcia right?…
    _____
    Right, and patience = Montero + Killer B’s. Count me in.

  95. Benny Blanco December 20th, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Wow, kc just wanted nunez and montero??

  96. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Blake-

    Whatsamattau ? You don’t like Garcia ? C’mon.

    ;)

  97. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 10:18 am

    blake December 20th, 2010 at 10:15 am
    Im still not sure who Patience is or what position he plays or if he’s a type A or Type B but he has to be better than Freddy Garcia right?……

    —————

    Think of it this way – if Freddy Garcia signs here and puts up the numbers he put up with the White Sox last year – he’s really no worse than Javy Vazquez was.

  98. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Yanks just now sent me a Happy Holidays greeting via email. I was disappointed that it didn’t include Pettitte under my tree. Maybe that will come next? :)

  99. mick December 20th, 2010 at 10:18 am

    The fact that the NYY didnt consider Grienke should show all that Cash was serious when he preached patience. A possible 2 year rental for a budding superstar? Give me a break…

  100. J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 10:19 am

    You can’t collapse pitchers. Joba and Kennedy were a whole different beast. Cash *rushed* them with Hughes b/c he was giddy about his new-found toy, the farm system. Then, b/c of the “failure,” which was more a lack of desire to go with the growing pains, Cash went the other way and got free agent happy. Now hopefully, older and wiser, Cash realizes he must develop and not rush his pitchers. He must combine judicious FA signings and wheeling and dealing when the cost isn’t prohibitive with a home-grown product. We can do all three, but the former two *only* when we are being smart in terms of cost or prospects we give up. Patience should continue to be our modus operandi.

    ////yes.said it better than I did. you get it, yankfem!the other difference is neither of these kids can be compared to IPK,who is a nice pitcher as he’s proving but he was a kid who could not dial it up when he needed to so when he missed his spots he paid big-time.both these kids on the rise have just weapons up the gazoo.manny change/FB and the curve just keeps gettin better, betances really pushed him self into close-to-the-majors with picking up the changeup so well and adding it to sick cb/fb arsenal.these are all plus offerings,fb and cb plus-plus i would say,but seeing is believing like I said. we’ve seen,most of them haven’t,therefore the doubts.

  101. Mell December 20th, 2010 at 10:19 am

    “Wow, kc just wanted nunez and montero??”

    Wondering whether the Yankees NO was more about the price or concerns over whether NYC was for Greinke?

  102. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 10:19 am

    Personally, I’m glad they did not surrender Montero for Greinke.

  103. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Both ManBan and Betances need innings, tis true. However, I say one of them still gets into an mlb game. Not to *rush* them, but to reward them. As for AAA, pitchers don’t need to necessarily pitch in AAA to make the jump. AA hitting is usually better than AAA anyway.

  104. comet December 20th, 2010 at 10:20 am

    MTU, GB, Erin and Kate good morning!

    Erin and Kate are you getting snow? We are!!!!!!

  105. mick December 20th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Look at next years FA pitchers and think about when we passed on Santana for CC the next year.

  106. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Comet-

    Good morning to you sir.

  107. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 10:23 am

    The fact that the NYY didnt consider Grienke should show all that Cash was serious when he preached patience. A possible 2 year rental for a budding superstar? Give me a break?

    Grienke is a CY Young winner . . A top PROVEN pitcher in this league. . and what wins Championships . . Pitching. If he pitched well for those 2 years he probably ends up in pinstripes for a long time.

    Montero a budding superstar .??? we’ve heard this alot the last few years on Yankee prospects . . . lets hope this time your right .

  108. austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 10:23 am

    I gather all those who think the rotation will be good next year on basing it on Burnett making a miraculous turnaround. I hope so, but to base the season on that is foolishness and blind optimism.

    To say the team’s pitching isn’t worse without Pettitte and Wood is, in my opinion, blind optimism with no basis in fact.

  109. J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Phranchise December 20th, 2010 at 10:04 am
    Where does the panic lie? We don’t have a starting rotation. We have Hughes and CC who I think you heavily rely on right now. AJ needs to be fixed. We still have no Andy and we have a rookie as the fifth starter.

    ///AJ fixed himself pretty well in that Game Four start,he found Good AJ and even threw his really good changeup that night.that showed me something.now rothschild just has to keep him on pace.I see no reason why he doesn’t have a good yr. ur are right about AP tho,we need him back to be able to sell this rotation as is. the fifth starter rookie thing isn’t a big deal.I like Nova and secretly hope Joba C isn’t done from a SP vantage point,despite the rhetoric.part of me hopes/and suspects,that Cashman is just keeping the rhetoric on joba the same but privately with the new guy that door may swing open yet again.

  110. Fran the original December 20th, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Yanks just now sent me a Happy Holidays greeting via email.
    ***************************
    yankeefeminista,

    I just got my Yankees holiday greeting as well. And here I thought I was special ;)

  111. Nick in SF December 20th, 2010 at 10:24 am

    It’s more than rain that falls on our parade tonight.

  112. J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 10:23 am
    I gather all those who think the rotation will be good next year on basing it on Burnett making a miraculous turnaround. I hope so, but to base the season on that is foolishness and blind optimism.

    ///miraculous?we don’t need a miracle. did you not see him pitch against Texas? what’d you take away from that?

  113. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    mick December 20th, 2010 at 10:21 am
    Look at next years FA pitchers and think about when we passed on Santana for CC the next year.

    ——————–

    Ok, I’m looking at the list and don’t see anyone who is that good.

    Wainwright will have his option kick in or be extended
    Buherle isn’t leaving the White Sox
    Edwin Jackson stinks
    Chris Carpenter is old and gets hurt all the time
    CJ Wilson is interesting but I want to see how he bounces back from throwing 200 innings after being a relief pitcher his entire career
    Joel Pinero stinks
    Wandy Rodriguez is an average pitcher in the NL
    Scott Kazmir is Ollie Perez

  114. YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    i think the yankees had already decided that greinke wouldnt work in nyc so whatever the royals might have ‘asked’ (as a starting point of course) doesnt really matter. the other question is whether grienke would have okayed the trade since it was widely reported that the yankees were one of the teams he had listed.

    if the yankees really believed that it wasnt going to work for greinke, then im glad we didnt go there.

  115. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 10:19 am
    You can’t collapse pitchers. Joba and Kennedy were a whole different beast. Cash *rushed* them with Hughes b/c he was giddy about his new-found toy, the farm system. Then, b/c of the “failure,” which was more a lack of desire to go with the growing pains, Cash went the other way and got free agent happy. Now hopefully, older and wiser, Cash realizes he must develop and not rush his pitchers. He must combine judicious FA signings and wheeling and dealing when the cost isn’t prohibitive with a home-grown product. We can do all three, but the former two *only* when we are being smart in terms of cost or prospects we give up. Patience should continue to be our modus operandi.

    ////yes.said it better than I did. you get it, yankfem!the other difference is neither of these kids can be compared to IPK,who is a nice pitcher as he’s proving but he was a kid who could not dial it up when he needed to so when he missed his spots he paid big-time.both these kids on the rise have just weapons up the gazoo.manny change/FB and the curve just keeps gettin better, betances really pushed him self into close-to-the-majors with picking up the changeup so well and adding it to sick cb/fb arsenal.these are all plus offerings,fb and cb plus-plus i would say,but seeing is believing like I said. we’ve seen,most of them haven’t,therefore the doubts.
    _______
    Exact, IPK is a bad example of someone who didn’t “make it” in AL East b/c he *has to* have pinpoint control to be successful. Very good point and important difference, Pruf. Yankees were not willing to let him develop at backend, esp. considering our other lack of “weapons” when he was with the club. Need to let these guys develop at backend like Rays let Wade Davis do…

    & changeup always was, always is, and continues to be the *key* for these young pitchers. Betances’ was siick when I saw him in AA, and ManBan’s is a devastating pitch. Brackman’s is evolving. Next year will be the key for how he is perceived whether in SP or BP, but he will still likely get a look out of mlb pen late in 2011.

  116. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 10:26 am

    If the Yankees wind up signing Garcia, I’d view him as a depth guy, a #4, a #5 to battle it out with Nova and the like.

    Right now the way things are shaping up is they have CC#1, Hughes #2, AJ #3, Nova and Mitre interchangably #4, #5. NY has 3-4 MiL guys in AAA/AA that could also compete as #5. (Phelps, Noesi, maybe Brackman, maybe DJ Mitchell etc…).

    The challenge is none of these guys throw left-handed. If Andy chooses to retire, NY needs to trade for a lefty, whether it be with HOU for Rodriguez or CHI for Buerhle or whomever for whoever, they need another lefty to match up with BOS line-up.

    I don’t think it’s a guarantee next year the WC comes from the AL East, so NYY will be competing head to head with BOS for the playoffs, not just for the division title. So match-ups against BOS will matter big time.

  117. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2010 at 10:26 am

    *Exactly*

  118. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 10:23 am
    The fact that the NYY didnt consider Grienke should show all that Cash was serious when he preached patience. A possible 2 year rental for a budding superstar? Give me a break?

    Grienke is a CY Young winner . . A top PROVEN pitcher in this league. . and what wins Championships . . Pitching. If he pitched well for those 2 years he probably ends up in pinstripes for a long time.

    Montero a budding superstar .??? we’ve heard this alot the last few years on Yankee prospects . . . lets hope this time your right .

    —————–

    This is one of those non-deals that will be impossible to judge. Greinke could go on to dominate the NL Central but that doesn’t mean that the Yankees made the wrong call as he may have come here and been Ed Whitson.

  119. austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    J. Alfred,

    So you are basing your optimism on one game? Wouldn’t you say that is a rather small sample size?

    Will he be better? I hope so, but we should all have our significant doubts.

  120. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 10:28 am

    If it’s beurhle vs. rodriguez. Sign me up for Mark.

    At least the guy knows how make a glove save.

    ;)

  121. Doreen December 20th, 2010 at 10:28 am

    LGY -

    Sad, but true, that I will probably be snoozing on the sofa by 9:30. :(

    Randy l -

    Until you have a replacement for Cash, he’s not a good choice. I think we could all agree that Randy Levine might be — HEY, wait a minute there…. randy l., Randy Levine — hmmmmm…..

    :lol:

  122. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Fran the original December 20th, 2010 at 10:24 am
    Yanks just now sent me a Happy Holidays greeting via email.
    ***************************
    yankeefeminista,

    I just got my Yankees holiday greeting as well. And here I thought I was special! :)
    _______
    I am sure you are. :) However, a yankees email, considering how often we receive them no longer is. ;) Unless of course, it is an update on Andy returning to the pinstripes or other such worthy news.

  123. J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 10:30 am

    MTU December 20th, 2010 at 10:19 am
    Personally, I’m glad they did not surrender Montero for Greinke.

    ///yea I give Cashman credit for not making the same mistake twice.In Some Like It Hot,the mob boss says to Spatz,”you mean…you let the same guys get away TWICE???that’s before they “blow him away” with a birthday cake lol.

  124. blake December 20th, 2010 at 10:30 am

    Chip,

    So were shooting for ” he’d be no worse than Javy Vasquez was”? Freddy is currently better at looking like the Rock than he is at pitching. He should look into being his stunt double.

  125. CompassRosy December 20th, 2010 at 10:31 am

    jaysonst
    Heads-up to Felix Hernandez: The Zack Greinke trade means the previous 4 AL Cy Youngs were all traded within 15 months of winning the award.

    One pattern I dearly hope does not continue.

  126. YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 10:31 am

    unless the yankees got some definitive ‘word’ that greinke WANTED to pitch in ny (as opposed to ‘would agree to a trade to ny) i dont think the yankees should have pusued him. Greinke (through his agent) and the royals had indicated that they didnt think he could cut it in nyc last season. the yankees, we hear, had concluded the same thing.
    so unless something changed and greinke really wanted to come to ny, it was going to be a bad fit or one made for all the wrong reasons.

    good luck to greinke with his health and his career when he’s not facing us.

    now on to the next situation.

  127. ConcernedCitizen December 20th, 2010 at 10:32 am

    With the Cliff Lee signing, the heartbreaking Knicks losses, and that pathetic Giants performance, I can say without a doubt that last week was one of the worst weeks for NY sports.

  128. mick December 20th, 2010 at 10:32 am

    I see no reason why he doesn’t have a good yr.
    ==============================
    What were the reasons for AJ’s bad year? Why should he have a good year? If his problem was not repeating his delivery, that is definable and should have been fixed last year. The problem is deeper than that. 1)He isn’t in a “walk” year, he seems to focus better then. 2) Focusing is a product of concentration, if so he needs incentive to do so…well,he’s already got his money.

    He will always be inconsistent, trade him now when he some value for Zambrano, throw the Cubs some money. Otherwise you will get 2 more years of bad AJ until his walk year in 2013.

  129. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 10:33 am

    By the way, CC is an ace, Hughes is an upcoming top of the rotation guy, the rest of the Yankees starters are full of question marks be it recent horrible performance (AJ), inexperience (Nova and the like) or limited abillity (Mitre and the like),, this is a rotation full of question marks and will get pummeled in BOS, if CC does not make one of the Fenway starts.

    Either Cashman needs to wage a full frontal assault to do whatever it takes to get Andy to sign up for 1 more year or he needs to move on a LH pitcher, one way or the other, the way I see it, the SP for NY is not ready to come out of the gate with a good chance of keeping the team in the game for the offense.

  130. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 10:33 am

    This is one of those non-deals that will be impossible to judge. Greinke could go on to dominate the NL Central but that doesn?t mean that the Yankees made the wrong call as he may have come here and been Ed Whitson.

    -
    Chip – its true . .we’ll never know .. But the same can be said for Montero . . he could be another prospect bust like Jose Mickey Mantle Tabata , .

    We’ll never know

  131. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 10:33 am

    blake December 20th, 2010 at 10:30 am
    Chip,

    So were shooting for ” he’d be no worse than Javy Vasquez was”? Freddy is currently better at looking like the Rock than he is at pitching. He should look into being his stunt double.

    ————————-

    Blake -

    I look at it as a harmless addition. At the money he would be making he’s certainly not going to stand in someone’s way if there’s a guy like Phelps or Nova who is quite obviously ready for the bright lights – but at the same time having a veteran who can throw 150 capable innings out of the back of the rotation isn’t a bad thing. Sure could have used one in 2008 right?

  132. tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Either other teams scouts suck or we have high expectations but it seems everyone wants nunez and we tend to just write him off yet when he is asked for in a deal, they refuse to include him.

  133. BD (Boston Dave) December 20th, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Wandy Rodriguez and Pineiro don’t stink, IMO.

    But they aren’t going to fill the #2 spot. They could be viable #4s though.

  134. Fran the original December 20th, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Unless of course, it is an update on Andy returning to the pinstripes or other such worthy news.
    *************************
    Yankeefeminista, Andy’s return is an email I look forward to receiving.

  135. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Chip December 20th, 2010 at 10:25 am
    mick December 20th, 2010 at 10:21 am
    Look at next years FA pitchers and think about when we passed on Santana for CC the next year.

    ——————–

    Ok, I’m looking at the list and don’t see anyone who is that good.

    Wainwright will have his option kick in or be extended
    Buherle isn’t leaving the White Sox
    Edwin Jackson stinks
    Chris Carpenter is old and gets hurt all the time
    CJ Wilson is interesting but I want to see how he bounces back from throwing 200 innings after being a relief pitcher his entire career
    Joel Pinero stinks
    Wandy Rodriguez is an average pitcher in the NL
    Scott Kazmir is Ollie Perez
    _______
    Wandy’s lefty splits though are consistently killer. He could be useful, depending on cost.

    However, generally, might as well just see what our kids bring with most of these options… and bide our time. Again, I expect AJ to bounce back big time.

  136. 108 stitches December 20th, 2010 at 10:35 am

    As it stands right now, Ivan Nova carries some importance. Unless Andy signs and another starter is dealt for, Nova would be no worse than a No. 5 starter. If Cashman deals for a starter, Nova goes to the bullpen as the long reliever at least until the health of Aceves is known. Few if any trust Mitre as a long reliever. He’s junk innings at best.
    The market for middle relievers is what it’s become …… higher than expected. Thought should be given to signing Jon Rauch or he’ll be gone.
    Meanwhile Jeff Keppinger is available as a utility infielder and would cost any more than middle range prospects to Houston.
    That would only leave a starter for Cashman to deal for.

  137. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 10:33 am
    This is one of those non-deals that will be impossible to judge. Greinke could go on to dominate the NL Central but that doesn?t mean that the Yankees made the wrong call as he may have come here and been Ed Whitson.

    -
    Chip – its true . .we’ll never know .. But the same can be said for Montero . . he could be another prospect bust like Jose Mickey Mantle Tabata , .

    We’ll never know
    ————————

    Well if Montero’s a bust I think we’ll know.

    The issue here is that the Yankees weren’t sure Greinke would thrive in New York. They weren’t saying he was a bad pitcher or in decline – just that New York wouldn’t agree with him. Since he’s not going to pitch for the Yankees we’ll never know if that fear was founded or unfounded.

  138. J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 10:36 am

    austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 10:27 am
    J. Alfred,

    So you are basing your optimism on one game? Wouldn’t you say that is a rather small sample size?

    Will he be better? I hope so, but we should all have our significant doubts.

    ///that’s a fair point but I would say to that,I’ve seen the guy when he is right,and I don’t just mean hitting his spots and getting swings on his cb.a lot went right in that start that was more than athleticism. him agreeing to spot his change is big progress for Burnett,esp because it causes him grief to do so,but he threw it in a playoff game. that’s big.also his fb was back up to like 95-96 mph in that game,like it was when he was right.he HAS the weapons,and he further gives me comfort he is already working with the new dude,who is fond of SO pitchers,well what is burnett?sure,he could blow up again,but I just think that’s the LESS likely scenario.call me an optimist,and I’ll gladly agree,because pessimism is bad religion I would say.but I don’t think my cheer is baseless,either.

  139. austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 10:36 am

    Garcia’s ERA+ last year was .94. Great, we are hot on the heels of a below average pitcher, with an average fastball of 87.8 mph. Didn’t we see enough of Vazquez last year? Garcia is not better. In fact, Vazquez had more value than Garcia in the market. That tells me quite enough.

  140. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 10:36 am

    mick, what team in their right mind would trade for AJ w/o NYY kicking in a big portion of his salary? And that would kind of defeat the purpose, right?

    As it stands now, AJ represents one of the singular worst contracts in the game. NYY either has to fix him or limit his exposure,, no gm in the game wants that headache. Hopefully the new PC can get AJ at least back to 50/50 good AJ/bad AJ ratio.

  141. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 10:37 am

    Yeah . .Ivan Nova is good . . until there s a running on first and then he starts to panic….. .. or his usual fifth inning meltdown … whatever comes first

  142. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2010 at 10:37 am

    tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 10:33 am
    Either other teams scouts suck or we have high expectations but it seems everyone wants nunez and we tend to just write him off yet when he is asked for in a deal, they refuse to include him.
    ______
    Yes, we can’t help but noticing. Nunez has some big upside at a position we need back up in. He brings a nice bat, range, good arm and strong D when he isn’t overly aggressive or throwing the ball away. I have seen him play often, and I wouldn’t give up on him too quickly.

  143. CompassRosy December 20th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    With the Cliff Lee signing, the heartbreaking Knicks losses, and that pathetic Giants performance, I can say without a doubt that last week was one of the worst weeks for NY sports.

    Take heart, CC – at least the “worsts” for NY sports tend to only come in days and weeks.
    Here in Seattle they come in months and seasons … heck, even decades ;-)

  144. Doreen December 20th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    The Yankees have “been there and done that” with pitchers that looked like they should be able to make it in NY and didn’t; it’s understandable that they’d be hesitant with a guy who has question marks in that part of his profile. Talent-wise, Greinke’s worth the risk; otherwise, there’s just too big a question mark. Why would they take a chance by throwing a kid like that into the boiling cauldron that is the NY media/fanbase?

    Not to mention all the money they lost to one Carl Pavano (and we won’t even mention the Japanese import who’s setting records in the mL).

  145. mick December 20th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    Chip

    Who are you comparing these guys to?
    Greinke or Lee?
    Cash is not going after pitchers because people on a blog think he should.
    I see more than a couple of pitchers on that list that might be attractive plus it gives the prospects another year to develop. Maybe he has his eye on CJ Wilson.

  146. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    It’s official, Cashman could’ve landed Greinke but he passed on him. He must see something better than a young 2009 CY award winner on the horizon, right?

    I mean, with this rotation in tatters, he must have a preliminary trade agreement worked out with Seattle for King Felix???

    He wouldn’t pass on Greinke with the possibility of Mitre being in the rotation, would he?

  147. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    108-

    I like your idea on Keppinger.

    I wanted Diaz for the OF so I’ll go with your idea for the bench.

    As long as the price is right.

  148. AldotheApache December 20th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    Chip December 20th, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Think of it this way – if Freddy Garcia signs here and puts up the numbers he put up with the White Sox last year – he’s really no worse than Javy Vazquez was.

    ——————————

    Which is a reason NOT to sign Garcia.

  149. J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Chip – its true . .we’ll never know .. But the same can be said for Montero . . he could be another prospect bust like Jose Mickey Mantle Tabata , .

    ///that’s pure fantasy.tabata never showed the power of montero and even lied about his age.how can you compare the two??talk about unrealistic and indulging in the darkest kind of fantasy.no one expects montero to be a bust.in fact, him being a bust IS based on NOTHING of substance.him being a 35 homer guy & great hitter is based on what’s already been witnessed.I love how some like to sell their extreme pessimism as being ‘realistic’.you have the wrong player to be doubtful of.

  150. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Great Post Brett !

  151. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 10:42 am

    # yankeefeminista December 20th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Carlo, how is Posada not a good hitter? What are you basing this opinion on? Decent OBP, switchy, and a lefty to boot. A well-rested Posada at DH could be a boon. Bet his SLG improves also.

    Manny’s bat is kind of tempting and kind of not, if you know what I mean. His defense in left is a joke.
    ———————————————————————————–

    I didnt say he was not a good hitter……..I said I don’t feel comfortable with him as the every day DH. I dont see why, at his age, his slugging would improve. He is 39. In his career as a DH he has an OPS under 700. The transition from being an everyday player to a DH isnt easy….we have no idea how he will adapt to that.

  152. MTU December 20th, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Why does Freddy Garcia look perpetually wet ?

    Does the guy sleep in a steamroom or something ?

    :)

  153. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Keppinger is a good stick no question,, but tell me how many games at SS has he played over the last few years, or even at 3B?

    As a utility man, spot starter with CIN, then with HOU he has primarily played 2B, if I recall correctly.

    Now, does NYY need a back-up at 2b for Cano??

    Or, does NYY primarily need a b/up at SS for Jeter and 3B for Arod?

  154. J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 10:43 am

    Take heart, CC – at least the “worsts” for NY sports tend to only come in days and weeks.
    Here in Seattle they come in months and seasons … heck, even decades

    ////don’t complain you’ve got those mythical whales :D

  155. mick December 20th, 2010 at 10:43 am

    yankee21

    I think Rothschild would relate better to Zambrano , whom he has dealt with for years, than AJ the unknown.
    Why people fall for AJ is beyond me. The good AJ vs the bad AJ. That’s ludicrous.
    Zambrano and AJ’s contracts are close enough to swap except for AJ’s 3rd year at 16m.
    Send them 5m to offset it, just get rid of this guy…

  156. YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 10:43 am

    “Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 10:37 am
    Yeah . .Ivan Nova is good . . until there s a running on first and then he starts to panic….. .. or his usual fifth inning meltdown … whatever comes first”

    …this is what really disgusts me about yankees fans, dismissing a 23 y/o guy as useless after all of 10 major league appearences…

    panic? NOOOOOO yankees fans NEVER panic!

  157. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 10:45 am

    It’s hilarious that some people think trading Jesus Montero for Cliff Lee and then locking up a 32 year old for 7 years at 150 million was not an act of desperation but trading for Zack Greinke and getting him for at least 2 years at lower dollars is somehow evidence of panic.

  158. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 10:45 am

    I’d say forget Keppinger and wait on an IF utility guy.

    Keep Nunez to spell Jeter and once a month, Cano.

    If Laird impresses in ST, he is your 3B b/up and your RF/LF b/up. If Laird bombs, then move on a 4 OF.

    the big need is a LH starting pitcher, another BP guy wouldn’t hurt either.

  159. mick December 20th, 2010 at 10:45 am

    t’s official, Cashman could’ve landed Greinke but he passed on him. He must see something better than a young 2009 CY award winner on the horizon, right?
    ============
    A Possible 2 Year Rental…..cmon man.

  160. Fran the original December 20th, 2010 at 10:46 am

    CompassRosy,

    Seahawks might not be having a good season, but they can still win the NFC West and make the playoffs. Once you’re in, never know what can happen.

  161. Phranchise December 20th, 2010 at 10:46 am

    I assume this was already posted by Heyman says Royals wanted Montero and Nunez for Grienke. Now while I question whether Grienke would have survived here that is a deal that makes a lot of sense. Unless of course those were two of many guys they wanted. Or if the Yankees are sort of floating it out there to potentially drive up the value of Montero or make it clear whether they are willing to part with him? I see no way he gets moved unless for a top notch pitcher, but Grienke is pretty far up the ladder for guys who were out there.

  162. Joe from Long Island December 20th, 2010 at 10:47 am

    Chad – c’mon now. Don’t you know common sense and rational thought have no place on a sports blog?

    Does someone know when ESPN is going to re-broadcast the show where they give out the award for best offseason?

  163. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 10:48 am

    mick, so you advocate taking on Zambrano and taking on his $$$ salary, and swapping AJ and pitching in 5 mil for the trouble.

    You don’t gain a starter, you are even in bodies. But you lose big time in salary and really w/o any definitive improvement for certain. What’s the point?

    Pass on that idea. I say keep AJ, and fix AJ, or not fix AJ and limit his exposure.

  164. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 10:48 am

    Mick,

    Lee was a 3 month rental. They were going to sign him but he was still a 3 month rental for Montero.

    After 2 years, they could sign Greinke too.

    So how is Greinke the rental yet not Lee?

    This front office is paranoid about Greinke’s makeup.

    Hypochondriac GM

  165. CountryClub December 20th, 2010 at 10:50 am

    If you’re going to believe Heyman’s tweet about Montero, Nunez (and unnamed others I’m sure), then you also need to believe his tweet from Sat that said Greinke’s own family didnt think NY was a good idea.

  166. Erica in NY December 20th, 2010 at 10:50 am

    Cashman needs to stop fooling around and sign Johnny Damon!!!!

    Thank you!

    (I will duck out of the way now and run)

  167. mick December 20th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    bret

    either way it is a rental…let’s see how greinke likes it here after 2 years for our best prospect, yeah right….i’m glad they didn’t trade for Lee , even if it meant a WS this year.

  168. YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    greinke, his agent, the royals and the yankees had all concluded as of last year that greinke wasnt for nyc. if that was the thinking mid-season last year, then it is good that the yankees never got into that market.

    alot of yankees fans have a hard time taking no for an answer, but lee said no and the yankees said no to greinke. both good moves imo, even if they leave us in a position of need. either move would have been a panic move i think.

  169. 108 stitches December 20th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Save for 2 decent years with the Marlins and 1 better than average year with the Jays, Burnett’s career hasn’t been what can be termed as above average. He’s 1 game under .500 and a combined 4.65 ERA for his 2 years with the Yankees with 3 more years due on his contract. Hardly justification for a 5-year contract worth $82.5M.
    Larry Rothschild has some bonafide projects on his hands between Burnett and Chamberlain.

  170. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 10:53 am

    We didn’t need Grienke . .

    We have 40 yearold Andy Pettite coming back , Ivan i can’t get past the fifth inning Nova.. and Sirgo MEAT TRAY !! . . Heck you want to throw Freddy Garcia to spice things up .. .Go Ahead. .

    ITS SAD !!!!!

  171. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 10:53 am

    If they wanted him badly enough they would’ve talked to his family.

    So it’s official.

    This front office traded Montero for 3 months of Lee with the intention of locking him up long term at 22-25 million per season.

    This front office refused to trade Montero for 2 years of Zack Greinke with the possibility of locking up a much younger pitcher beyond that.

  172. J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 10:54 am

    I think that expecting two kids with 14 and 15 innings pitched above A Ball to contribute this year in the majors is a little bit of a stretch.

    Of the three – maybe – maybe – Brackman will don pinstripes this season; but the other two? I’m thinking that if they get to AAA this year it will be impressive enough.

    ///CHIP – NOT this yr. I think ONE of the two,whoever warrants a callup more,may get a look in 2012. I can see BOTH getting serious looks and even being in the rotation back-end in 2013,but because they will have earned it,not because the yanks are reprising 2007.I may be wrong,they may take a much more conservative approach than having BOTH in there,but these boys may just force their hand.GO SEE THEM!

  173. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 10:55 am

    I sure as hell am glad Cashman was not able to trade Montero straight up for Grienke, much less factoring Nunez into the trade.

    Montero is part of the solution. Give him a chance.

    Grienke is a very good pitcher but I do not move Montero for him.

    Glad it didn’t happen for whatever the reason (s).

  174. blake December 20th, 2010 at 10:55 am

    If the Royals were demanding Montero then Im ok with them passing on Greinke. I wouldnt have done it either but I wouldn’t have been that upset if they had if it was basically a 2 for 1 with Montero and Nunez. Its just one of those things where you ask yourself how much faith you have in Montero and is it worth giving that up for what Greinke can provide now…..I guess the the Yankees answer was no.

  175. mick December 20th, 2010 at 10:57 am

    Zambrano to Yanks? Cubs can hope

    ========================
    Z makes 39 m the next 2 years, AJ 36…..it’s the 3rd year for AJ that is the problem…..”limit his exposure” , the best way to do that is to trade him.

  176. YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 10:57 am

    so that makes it greinke and his agent, the royals, the yankees and greinke’s family (per heyman) who all concluded in the past year that greinke wasnt likely to work out in nyc.

    this had the potential to be pavano only they had to throw in thier best prospect to get him.

    good non-move.

  177. tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 10:58 am

    yankeefeminista says:

    December 20, 2010 at 10:37 am

    tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 10:33 am
    Either other teams scouts suck or we have high expectations but it seems everyone wants nunez and we tend to just write him off yet when he is asked for in a deal, they refuse to include him.
    ______
    Yes, we can’t help but noticing. Nunez has some big upside at a position we need back up in. He brings a nice bat, range, good arm and strong D when he isn’t overly aggressive or throwing the ball away. I have seen him play often, and I wouldn’t give up on him too quickly.

    —–

    Yes, as much as I like pena and his good defense I know that Nunez has a higher upside especially on offense but his defense as we all know is an adventure. I like having guys from the farm to fill holes rather than acquiring free agents.

  178. coolerking101 December 20th, 2010 at 10:58 am

    Where is there any proof the Yankees could have had Greinke if the wanted him? The Royals don’t need Montero (one of KC’s best prospects is a C) and the Yanks couldn’t offer any ML ready position players like they got from the Brewers.

    BTW – Jose Tabata is not a bust. He basically put up the same numbers as Austin Jackson. The only people who think he’s a bust are the people who thought he’d hit for power (even though he never hit for power in the minors).

  179. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Montero is the controlled variable. He would’ve gone for both Lee and Greinke.

    So really this boils down to their evaluation of Lee vs. Greinke and how they fit long term.

    They overvalued the 32 year old smug prick with the bad back IMHO. His value is inflated because of his 2008, 2009 and 2010 years. He’s leaving his prime. Greinke is entering his prime armed with a CY award at a very young age. His talent was realized at a much MUCH younger age.

  180. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 11:00 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 10:54 am
    I think that expecting two kids with 14 and 15 innings pitched above A Ball to contribute this year in the majors is a little bit of a stretch.

    Of the three – maybe – maybe – Brackman will don pinstripes this season; but the other two? I’m thinking that if they get to AAA this year it will be impressive enough.

    ///CHIP – NOT this yr. I think ONE of the two,whoever warrants a callup more,may get a look in 2012. I can see BOTH getting serious looks and even being in the rotation back-end in 2013,but because they will have earned it,not because the yanks are reprising 2007.I may be wrong,they may take a much more conservative approach than having BOTH in there,but these boys may just force their hand.GO SEE THEM!

    —————–

    Ok, there’s the issue – I thought you were touting these guys to impact the major league roster by some point this year.

    A year from now I could see it.

  181. Cashman needs to go December 20th, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 10:53 am
    We didn’t need Grienke . .

    We have 40 yearold Andy Pettite coming back , Ivan i can’t get past the fifth inning Nova.. and Sirgo MEAT TRAY !! . . Heck you want to throw Freddy Garcia to spice things up .. .Go Ahead. .

    ITS SAD !!!!!

    *****************

    Cheep up – Stealth Cashman is now in his office frosting his 4 strands of hair and working on a Sidney Ponson minor league deal for 1.5 million with an invite to spring training … there is also a rumor floating that he is trying to pry Darrel Rasner away from the Tohoku Rakuten Golden Eagles …never underestimate the stealthness of the Ninja Cashman!!

    Afterall he did say he was casting a net far and wide…can it go any further than Japan?!?

  182. J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 11:00 am

    No to F. Garcia.As someone here said,you think Javy was bad?He’ll get clocked in our division.Let Nova or Noesi or gasp – joba – have it.or make a reasonable deal instead of signing this FA riff raff.Good afternoon,all,

  183. pat December 20th, 2010 at 11:00 am

    Heyman said KC wanted Montero and Nunez in a deal for Greinke but didn’t say they ONLY wanted Montero and Nunez.

    There may be more details than what are found in a tweet.

  184. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 11:01 am

    Cashman needs to go —

    LOL LOL

  185. YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 11:02 am

    coolerking101 you are right that tabata is not a bust yet, but both the yankees and the pirates expected power out of him. the fact that he didnt provide any probably had as much to do with him being moved as his attitude problems. if he never hits for power, then he will not be the player he was projected to become by both organizations. but hes still very young and its to early to judge.

  186. J. Alfred Prufrock December 20th, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Cashman needs to go December 20th, 2010 at 11:00 am

    HEy CNTG,yr perspective is already fixed in yr username.no need to read yr posts,since ur committed to a view that a changing reality can’t accommodate. just sayin. bye all.

  187. mick December 20th, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Cash has a long term plan….we may not win the WS each and every year because of that….is that a shame, yes, but if it means a better future then do it by all means….no, there are no guarantees.

  188. DaSaint007 December 20th, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Good morning blake, Bret, comet, Chip, Erin, GB, and Kate!

    5 more days before Cashman plants something good under the tree I hope.

  189. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2010 at 11:04 am

    Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 10:42 am
    # yankeefeminista December 20th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Carlo, how is Posada not a good hitter? What are you basing this opinion on? Decent OBP, switchy, and a lefty to boot. A well-rested Posada at DH could be a boon. Bet his SLG improves also.

    Manny’s bat is kind of tempting and kind of not, if you know what I mean. His defense in left is a joke.
    ———————————————————————————–

    I didnt say he was not a good hitter……..I said I don’t feel comfortable with him as the every day DH. I dont see why, at his age, his slugging would improve. He is 39. In his career as a DH he has an OPS under 700. The transition from being an everyday player to a DH isnt easy….we have no idea how he will adapt to that.
    ________
    His career as a DH is a small sample size. & no, we don’t know that he will produce, but we also don’t know that he won’t. He is a pretty darn good hitter, a switchy and his OBP is always right up there. IF we need reinforcements, we can always make a move late. He should be fine though. Esp. in terms of what comparable DH’s bring. Plus we will have others like Alex slotting in and out of that spot.

  190. tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 11:04 am

    I think that Nova will be fine starting over a new season. I don’t think he had a problem getting through the fifth inning in AAA. They just need to help him figure out what the issue was.

  191. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2010 at 11:06 am

    mick December 20th, 2010 at 11:02 am
    Cash has a long term plan….we may not win the WS each and every year because of that….is that a shame, yes, but if it means a better future then do it by all means….no, there are no guarantees.
    _____
    Although one could also argue that by being patient, we have more of a chance to win multiple WS’s vs. a short term plan that guarantees nothing, but may negatively affect our future success.

  192. YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 11:07 am

    i really didnt like the prospect for this team in 5 years with all the long term commitments plus lee added on (which imo was going to be the 2nd worst contract by then after arod’s), so while i dont want to take a back seat any year, for the long-term good of the organization, i think cash has made the right, if not popular moves so far.

    no pain, no gain. we are better for this moving forward.

  193. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 11:09 am

    yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 10:45 am
    I’d say forget Keppinger and wait on an IF utility guy.

    Keep Nunez to spell Jeter and once a month, Cano.

    If Laird impresses in ST, he is your 3B b/up and your RF/LF b/up. If Laird bombs, then move on a 4 OF.

    the big need is a LH starting pitcher, another BP guy wouldn’t hurt either.

    ———————-

    I don’t know if the Yankees want to waste Nunez by only letting him play once or twice a month when he could be playing everyday (and upping his trade value) in Scranton.

    As for Laird – I think if he shows consistant improvement in AAA then he may be the RF of the future for the Yankees, but right now he needs more playing time.

    It’s better to get veterans to open the season for money than to have to trade players for them midseason. Keppinger is a solid veteran who won’t cost a real prospect now, but as the season progresses and teams suffer injuries the price tag may go up.

  194. Nick in SF December 20th, 2010 at 11:09 am

    Freddy Garcia means King Felix to follow.

    Connect the dots, people.

  195. mick December 20th, 2010 at 11:09 am

    Cmon Brett

    You are right in comparing Lee and Greinke but they are the variables, not Montero.
    While they have track records, they are not givens.
    Montero has no track record but has potential.

  196. DaSaint007 December 20th, 2010 at 11:09 am

    While somewhat frustrating watching other FA developments, I’m ok with Cashman’s approach. He’s signed his own FA, which was key. Andy may be back, which is also key to the rotation. Should that happen, Nova probably slots in comfortably as the #5, with Mitre as the spot starter/long reliever. No, it’s not the same as having Cliff Lee in the rotation, but that’s life, and we move on.

    I do wish he would add another arm to the pen though. Feliciano is fine as that other lefty, but Jon Rauch would be my choice as a righty complement who also has proven that he can close if necessary.

  197. YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 11:10 am

    “tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 11:04 am
    I think that Nova will be fine starting over a new season. I don’t think he had a problem getting through the fifth inning in AAA. They just need to help him figure out what the issue was.”

    - Relax, the ‘problem’ was that he was a 22 y/o rookie! give the guy some slack! he doesn’t need ‘fixing’ he just needs to develop and he is doing that. he did great for a kid his age, be happy and look forward to what he can bring not at what he did in his first stint in the majors! mickey and donnie baseball both failed in thier first trips to the majors, nova outdid both of them at the start.

    -relax already!

  198. rodg12 December 20th, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Dayton Moore demanding Montero from the Yankees and Andrus from the Rangers as Escobar equivalents is a freaking joke. Montero has shown the bat in the minors to be a SuperStar. Andrus has shown the skills at the major league level to be a SuperStar (still think he should have won the Gold Glove this year). Escobar hasn’t come close to showing either. Escobar’s 67 OPS+ last year was truly dreadful. Only a couple players in the history of baseball have rebounded from that low of an OPS+ to have productive offensive careers. (Posnanski says The Wizard of Oz and Terry Pendelton are two of the very few examples). Plus, he’s 24. It’s not like he’s 21 like Montero or 22 like Andrus.

  199. DaSaint007 December 20th, 2010 at 11:12 am

    MLBTR.com:
    Ankiel off the boards…to the Nats.

  200. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    IMO, Felix Hernandez on the horizon is the only acceptable explanation for passing on Greinke. Maybe they’ve settled on a preliminary package focused on Phil Hughes + Jesus Montero. The rest of the deal gets complicated because of the number of prospects/players involved and the Mariner’s demands on Figgins and Bradley contracts.

  201. mick December 20th, 2010 at 11:14 am

    What are we talking about for Nova to be a much better pitcher?
    1 more quality inning.
    That doesn’t seem like a daunting task…

  202. 108 stitches December 20th, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Ramiro Pena carries a good glove but a light stick. Unless Nunez self destructs, he’ll go north with the big team.
    Why Keppinger ? He’s available (because of the Astros signing Bill Hall) in return for just a couple of prospects with not much in Yankee future. He plays all 4 infield positions adequately and walks more than he K’s.
    It’s reached the time when Jeter and A-Rod can be taken out of games when the Yankees are holding sizeable leads late in games to be rested or when seeing occasional time as a DH in the case of A-Rod.
    Between Nunez, Keppinger, and Laird there’s a lot of flexability in positions. Laird has learned to play the corner OF positions and is serviceable ar 3rd and 1st base.

    http://houston.astros.mlb.com/....._id=433898

  203. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 11:15 am

    chip; where did I say playing Nunez once a month?

    I said it for Cano,, I would play Nunez at least once per week to rest Jeter, and if necessary 1 per week to rest Arod, but preferably rest Arod with Laird vs. Nunez…

  204. Cashman needs to go December 20th, 2010 at 11:15 am

    Alfred-

    whats your view of the changing reality that you speak about? – if anything i have already seen the changing reality – and its not a pretty one…the reality is that cash and his cousin hal are content with sending the same team out in 2011 that was .500 from July to October last year – and was at best below average offensively and downright bad in starting pitching – their only strength (besides rivera) in the bullpen is gone and they have done nothing to change that this offseason…oh except that they’ve lowered the payroll to under 200 million – which if you read between the lines was their plan since the 2008 offseason all along…

    they are content on hoping their beloved prospects pan out in 2 years – all the while not thinking that in 2 years their main players will be 2 years older and not as good anymore – so yes they’ll have 2 possibly good pitchers and maybe a good catcher but they will then have holes at 3rd, SS, 1st base and at least in 2 of the 3 OF positions by then..

    oh and you won’t offend me if you don’t rd my posts…happy holidays to you friend

  205. YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 11:16 am

    so brett, the fact that greinke, his agent, the royals and yankees and greinke’s family all said this past year that greinke wasnt a good fit for ny isnt an ‘acceptable’ explanation for passing on sending your best prospect for Greinke?

  206. DaSaint007 December 20th, 2010 at 11:19 am

    YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 11:16 am
    so brett, the fact that greinke, his agent, the royals and yankees and greinke’s family all said this past year that greinke wasnt a good fit for ny isnt an ‘acceptable’ explanation for passing on sending your best prospect for Greinke?

    —————————————
    Please provide links for the following:
    Where his agent said NY wasn’t a good fit.
    Where the royals said NY wasn’t a good fit.
    Where his family said NY wasn’t a good fit.

    Thanks.

  207. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:19 am

    Greinke said he was willing to come here. That’s the most recent evidence we have that he was willing to come here. If his family had concerns, the Yankees would’ve talked with them if they wanted Zack badly enough. so don’t give me some horse puckey about things said 1, 2, 3 years ago.

  208. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 11:20 am

    yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 11:15 am
    chip; where did I say playing Nunez once a month?

    I said it for Cano,, I would play Nunez at least once per week to rest Jeter, and if necessary 1 per week to rest Arod, but preferably rest Arod with Laird vs. Nunez…

    ——————-

    Fair enough.

    I still believe though that if the Yankees can find an upgrade from Pena outside the organization that Nunez would best serve the Yankees playing everyday in Scranton.

  209. YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 11:21 am

    the family thing was per heyman saturday, the agent and greinke were obvious since it was widlely known that he was one of the teams on his no trade and it was also mentioned in the past when the yankees asked about greinke. also it was mentioned here several times
    find your own links all this was common knowledge before the trade was made.

  210. Latroy Farnsworth December 20th, 2010 at 11:22 am

    King Felix to the Boogie Down will never happen so everyone needs to get off of that. If you’re Seattle why would you even entertain the idea of trading him? He’s clearly the best player on the team, is young, has 4 more years left on his contract, and oh yeah just won the Cy Young.

    In order to improve the Yanks at this current time during the offseason Cashmoney needs to loosen the purse strings and see if he can convince Soriano to set up for Mo. Robertson is in no way shape or form a set up man. Yes he is a good relief pitcher but he’s a 6th/7th inning guy. And who knows what Joba is going to give you. You can thank the organization for messing him up.

  211. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 11:23 am

    Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:19 am
    Greinke said he was willing to come here. That’s the most recent evidence we have that he was willing to come here. If his family had concerns, the Yankees would’ve talked with them if they wanted Zack badly enough. so don’t give me some horse puckey about things said 1, 2, 3 years ago.

    ——————

    Not everyone who wants New York is actually cut out for New York – Brian has seen too many guys who are quality pitchers flame out here because they were unprepared for the storm that comes with playing in the fishbowl. He was not about to sacrifice two of his better prospects for a guy who very well could have been as ineffective here as Randy Johnson, Jose Contreras or Javy Vazquez.

  212. YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 11:23 am

    whitson was willing to come too. i dont see that as putting the concerns about him in ny to rest. short of him coming right out and saying he wanted to play for the yankees, i wouldnt risk my best prospect on the hope that he can cut it despite common doubt that he could

  213. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:24 am

    Felix Hernandez for

    Phil Hughes + Jesus Montero + Brett Gardner + Eduardo Nunez + Ivan Nova

    Yankees take on Chone Figgins contract.

  214. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 11:25 am

    chip

    I believe Jeter will play better if he is more rested, thus he keep Nunez around.

    I agree Pena as a back-up solution needs to be upgraded. Need to have a guy
    that stands at least a snowball’s chance of getting a hit.

  215. ac1 December 20th, 2010 at 11:25 am

    Bret, stop making Felix trade suggestions and realy stop including Phil Hughes. It solves NOTHING!!!!!

    Trading a starter for a starter is pointless, i dont care if it is Felix.

  216. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 11:27 am

    My shopping list at this point:

    P’s
    Jon Rausch
    Kevin Gregg
    1 back end starter (either Freddy Garcia, Kyle Davies, Jake Peavy, Jarrod Washburn, Chris Young)

    Position players (not all, but some of the following)
    Jeff Keppinger
    Reed Johnson
    Andruw Jones
    Connor Jackson
    Jerry Hairston Jr
    Scott Hairston

  217. DaSaint007 December 20th, 2010 at 11:27 am

    the family thing was per heyman saturday – ok, the ole reliable family source – unnamed of course.

    no trade list is often used to add value to a contract, but does not mean that the player won’t play there.

    ‘menioned in the past’ – I have no idea what that means from a factual perspective.

    ‘mentioned here several times’ – again, we don’t count – we’re bloggers

    Where did KC say he wouldn’t pitch here and why would they (a MLB team) say so.

    Point is – get your facts separated from rumor and tweets.

  218. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 11:27 am

    If the Yanks were willing to swap Montero for 3 months of Lee it’s hard to believe they wouldn’t trade him for 2 years of Greinke.

  219. tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 11:28 am

    YsGuy says:

    December 20, 2010 at 11:10 am

    “tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 11:04 am
    I think that Nova will be fine starting over a new season. I don’t think he had a problem getting through the fifth inning in AAA. They just need to help him figure out what the issue was.”

    - Relax, the ‘problem’ was that he was a 22 y/o rookie! give the guy some slack! he doesn’t need ‘fixing’ he just needs to develop and he is doing that. he did great for a kid his age, be happy and look forward to what he can bring not at what he did in his first stint in the majors! mickey and donnie baseball both failed in thier first trips to the majors, nova outdid both of them at the start.

    -relax already!

    —–

    I said that I think he will be fine. If you ever read any of my other posts I have said that I would like to see Nova or another of our guys to take over the fifth starter spot. I like Nova a lot. I was really excited to find I was going to a game he was starting. I never said he had a “problem” I was just stating that he didn’t have trouble getting out of the fifth in AAA, so maybe there something else like nearing his innings limit.

  220. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Actually, Felix is one of a handful of guys I would trade Montero straight up for.

    Leave out the other 4 guys you mentioned, especially Hughes and Gardner.

  221. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Thank you, wave. THANK YOU. It’s only believable if they have a preliminary package agreed upon for Felix Hernandez…given the circumstances.

  222. Cashman needs to go December 20th, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Brian has seen too many guys who are quality pitchers flame out here because they were unprepared for the storm that comes with playing in the fishbowl

    ****************

    But signing freddie garcia is a genius move? At least signing or trading for a “quality” pitcher gives you a better chance that he will pitch to his capabilities – freddie garcia was at best average when he was good…

  223. Giuseppe Franco December 20th, 2010 at 11:29 am

    Perhaps Bret should stop with the King Felix fantasy trades before he cries again when it inevitably doesn’t happen.

    Trading Hughes in any deal for a pitcher doesn’t make any sense. None. Zero. He’s cheap, he’ll throw 200 IP this season, and he’s no worse than they’re #3 starter with Pettitte in the mix.

    Trade Hughes and you still need another starting pitcher to fill his vacated spot. Duh.

  224. West Coast Yankee Fan December 20th, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:24 am

    Felix Hernandez for Phil Hughes + Jesus Montero + Brett Gardner + Eduardo Nunez + Ivan Nova Yankees take on Chone Figgins contract.

    ***************

    Not in a million years.

  225. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Guiseppe Franco,

    You’re still crying over Cliff Lee!!!!

    :lol:

  226. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 11:30 am

    ….If the Yanks were willing to swap Montero for 3 months of Lee it?s hard to believe they wouldn?t trade him for 2 years of Greinke…

    —————-

    Do you think it is remotely possible that NY evaluates Montero differently from last June, July?
    Do you think it is remotely possible that NY evaluates Lee differently than Grienke?

    If either of these are true, would this not explain NY’ treatment of these two separate deals?

  227. coolerking101 December 20th, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Not that I think Greinke wanted to come here…but the fact that he had a no trade clause that included NYY means nothing. He probably had the clause for the Sox, LAA and other big spending teams. It’s in there so that he can re-negotiate his deal.

  228. YsGuy December 20th, 2010 at 11:31 am

    dasaint, my facts are fine if you cant keep up dont blame me

  229. DaSaint007 December 20th, 2010 at 11:32 am

    Final additions for 2011 Yankees:

    SP: Marke Buehrle or Edwin Jackson as #4/5 starter (CC, Hughes, AJ, Pettitte, Buehrle/Jax)

    RP: Jon Rauch (Mariano, Rauch, Robertson, Joba, Logan, Feliciano, Mitre)

    Bench: Jeff Keppinger, Lastings Milledge

  230. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 11:32 am

    “Do you think it is remotely possible that NY evaluates Montero differently from last June, July?”

    No.

    “Do you think it is remotely possible that NY evaluates Lee differently than Grienke?”

    Not enough.

  231. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    Its funny how some people on here thinkg Grienke is chop liver ?? unreal

  232. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2010 at 11:34 am

    Cashman needs to go December 20th, 2010 at 11:15 am
    they are content on hoping their beloved prospects pan out in 2 years – all the while not thinking that in 2 years their main players will be 2 years older and not as good anymore – so yes they’ll have 2 possibly good pitchers and maybe a good catcher but they will then have holes at 3rd, SS, 1st base and at least in 2 of the 3 OF positions by then..
    ___
    & if you trade all your prime prospects, you will create even more holes. This is about a long term winning philosophy; love has nothing to do with it. I *love* the way those who devalue prospects and collapse all prospects as equal assume an emotional component rather than a rational one, which is based on an arguably superior team-building model. ;)

    I am out until later. Enjoy!

  233. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:34 am

    For King Felix – Phil Hughes + Jesus Montero would be the first to go. That just gets you exclusive negotiating rights and a block on other teams. That’s it.

  234. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 11:36 am

    King Felix and Josh Johnson are as likely to be a part of a trade as I am.

    Seattle and Florida have any reason to want to trade these guys – they are young, elite starters locked up with reasonable long term contracts.

    They do not fall into the same category as Greinke because both teams hope to contend a lot sooner than Kansas City does.

    What’s more, neither team has a financial situation that would force them to make a deal. Seattle has plenty of cash and the Marlins, though cheap, are moving into a new park and are branding Johnson and Hanley Ramirez as the faces of the franchise.

  235. Giuseppe Franco December 20th, 2010 at 11:36 am

    # Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Guiseppe Franco,

    You’re still crying over Cliff Lee!!!!

    ———–

    Don’t confuse me with your stupidity and railing against the front office everyday because they didn’t get your newest target you made up out of thin air.

  236. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Seattle’s roster is pathetic. Finished 30th in every offensive statistical category. They’d listen on King Felix. I think their statement to the contrary is just a smokescreen.

  237. DaSaint007 December 20th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Nova, Montero, Romine, Laird, and Nunez need to start the season in AAA unless they are lights out in ST. They’ll get their chances later in the season.

    I still see Cervelli as the backup catcher come opening day, unless Montero has a stellar ST, in which case Cervelli could find himself back at AAA or traded.

  238. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Guiseppe,

    :cry:

  239. Chip December 20th, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:38 am
    Seattle’s roster is pathetic. Finished 30th in every offensive statistical category. They’d listen on King Felix. I think their statement to the contrary is just a smokescreen.

    ——————

    Sure they would listen – and if the Yankees were willing to give them Cano, Montero, Gardner, Hughes and Betances I bet they would even consider making the trade. Short of that – it ain’t happening.

  240. Dylan December 20th, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Bottom line, if the Yankees believe that Greinke wouldn’t last in NY, they aren’t going to trade their #1 prospect for him. It doesn’t matter if we are convinced that Greinke can pitch in NY. Its pretty apparent that the Yankees weren’t convinced. If they did think so, I’m sure they would have traded Montero for him.

  241. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:39 am

    It’s fun for Mariner’s fans to watch King Felix 35 times a year.

    The other 130 games are pure torture.

  242. Mark in Tampa December 20th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    I know he is hurt now, but why don’t the Yankees talk to the Mets about Johan Santana? He was originally out until June or July, but is supposedly ahead of schedule, so it could be mid-May-June.

    I would think that the Mets would be happy just to have the salary relief, so the prospect price should be far less than Montero. Although he doesn’t do anything for the near term, if he comes back to form, the Yankees would have the second best rotation in baseball in the second half of the season and beyond.

    Of course, if he returns to form is a very big IF. Shoulder surgery is of course very tricky, but I am sure the Yankees would be sure to do their due diligence to be pretty sure of what they are getting.

    Just a thought since it seems all of the other options are mediocre at best, and the viable talent is un-obtainable or way too expensive player wise.

  243. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    Wrong chip. Phil Hughes + Jesus Montero gets you in the conversation.

  244. UpState December 20th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Austin Kearns.

    No longer a 4th OF option.

    Re-upps with CLEVELAND.

    Now what ???

  245. Latroy Farnsworth December 20th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Even if Montero has a little less than stellar ST he should be on the team, this way he gains experience on how to handle a pitching staff etc. Cervelli should be traded if possible. His defense took a huge hit this year and we all know his batting is putrid.

  246. blake December 20th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Chip,

    I think Johnson will be made available before his contract is up….just probably wont be this winter. Maybe next if they don’t show improvement. The Mariners spend a lot more money than the Marlins and have Felix signed to an additional year.

  247. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    When a team like NYY targets a superstar from another team that they want to acquire but the team holding the rights to that player does not need to trade that player, then two things will inevitably happen:
    1. NYY will pay through the nose for that player the other team has little incentive to move
    2. NYY will hang up the phone and go after a more practical option since it doesn’t want to pay through the nose for that player.

    Cases: Felix H and Josh J.

  248. ac1 December 20th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Brian Cashman admits that he may be stuck with the rotation he has
    _____

    Oh boy!!!! Cue the LoHud OUTRAGE!

  249. jacksquat December 20th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Yanks likely going with current pitchingEmail Print Comments24 By Wallace Matthews
    ESPNNewYork.com
    Archive

    NEW YORK — Having finished second, or maybe third, in the Cliff Lee sweepstakes, the Yankees are prepared to go into the 2011 season with a pitching rotation of CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett and Phil Hughes , with the remaining spots filled out by youngsters, many of whom have never pitched above the Triple-A level.

    “I’m not saying I want to do it,” general manager Brian Cashman said in a telephone conversation Monday morning, “but I may have to do it.”

    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-.....id=5938789

  250. Giuseppe Franco December 20th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Wow, even Chip is a voice of reason in the King Felix fantasy trade talk.

  251. Latroy Farnsworth December 20th, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Santana?!?!?! No chance whatsoever. 1st off the guy isn’t going to pitch until around the all star break. The starting rotation has enough question marks at the moment definitely don’t need another one.

  252. Dylan December 20th, 2010 at 11:45 am

    I would trade Hughes, Gardner, and just about any prospect for King Felix. Cano is pretty much the only player who they would be interested in, that I wouldn’t give up. He is arguably the best pitcher in baseball, and is still 5-6 years away from even reaching his prime. He would cost us a small fortune, but he is the one player I would be willing to gut our farm system for.

  253. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Wallace Matthews article regarding his conversation with Cashman should inspire many……..net net, he doesnt see any pitching out there for us to attain……thus, the B’s, are likely safe…..to make the move to AA.

  254. austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Bret,

    I was and am with you on Greinke. I would have made the trade and felt the Yankees would be virtually ready to compete with anyone. However, King Felix is about as much a pipe dream as a lottery win.

  255. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:46 am

    “I’m not saying I want to do it,” general manager Brian Cashman said in a telephone conversation Monday morning, “but I may have to do it.”

    ***********

    Defeatism is not becoming of a GM of a billion dollar franchise.

  256. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 11:46 am

    I’m not buying Heyman’s tweet. The Yanks wouldn’t have gotten to first base with a Montero/Nunez offer for Greinke. The Brewers’ offer was better. If the Royals had told the Yanks they’d do it for Montero/Nunez the Yanks couldn’t have said Yes fast enough.

  257. Drivenbyjeter2 December 20th, 2010 at 11:46 am

    It doesn’t matter if we scored the most runs last season. We’re getting old. We’re getting OLD i tell ya! And it showed in the Playoffs.

  258. Drivenbyjeter2 December 20th, 2010 at 11:46 am

    It doesn’t matter if we scored the most runs last season. We’re getting old. We’re getting OLD i tell ya! And it showed in the Playoffs.

  259. tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 11:48 am

    I don’t see why, if our young pitchers have a breakout spring training why they can’t be successful at the ML level. I think they can handle it. I think AJ will do better this year and though he might not win another 18 games, Phil will be good again this coming season. I’m not worried about it, I just wish it was spring already. I’m ready for this new season to start

  260. Chambliss December 20th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Sounds like “Bubba Crosby will be out starting centerfielder” talk from Cashman.

  261. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    What % of people on this board think our 2015 rotation is:

    CC
    Hughes
    Betances
    Brackman
    Banuelos

    Comically, I believe the number is greater than 50% of the lohud population…..and those who dont think it is because trades or free agent signings will derail it.

  262. DaSaint007 December 20th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Latroy Farnsworth December 20th, 2010 at 11:42 am
    Even if Montero has a little less than stellar ST he should be on the team, this way he gains experience on how to handle a pitching staff etc. Cervelli should be traded if possible. His defense took a huge hit this year and we all know his batting is putrid.
    —————————————-
    Hey Latroy,

    I hear you, but it’s interesting how many of us see players on other teams who had down years as having the capability to bounce back, but when it’s our own player – like Cervelli – we’re ready to jettison him.

    Frankly, I think Montero will be fine – but I’d rather him start at AAA getting more experience behind the plate than just once a week. Cervelli can rebound, and he’s actually proven to have a pretty decent arm when his catching/throwing mechanics are right.

  263. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Nobody should question Heyman’s tweet. Jon Heyman is GOD!

    :lol:

    Seriously though, he scooped ESPN on the mystery team for Cliff Lee (Don’t cry Guiseppe)

  264. ac1 December 20th, 2010 at 11:50 am

    I have to agree, i don’t get why Cashman would put all this news out there. Hopefully it is to throw everyone off, but who knows.

    Maybe not Greinke, but he definitely needs another #2 pitcher, whether pettitte is back or not.

  265. blake December 20th, 2010 at 11:50 am

    Wave,

    I don’t know….the Brewers had more quantity but there isn’t a player in that package like Montero. The best players the Brewers sent are in the lower levels. Is Escobar significantly better than Nunez? He’s a great defender but he hasn’t shown he can hit a lick.

  266. jacksquat December 20th, 2010 at 11:51 am

    Fact is, if Andy comes back, it’s the same rotation as last season except for Vazquez’ 5.32 ERA. I’m confident Nova or *someone* can at least equal that, if not pitch better.

    Need to get Andy back though. If not, it’s dicey.

  267. ac1 December 20th, 2010 at 11:51 am

    CC
    Hughes
    Betances
    Brackman
    Banuelos

    __

    To start, i think Brackman will end up in the pen.

  268. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 11:51 am

    tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 11:48 am

    I don’t see why, if our young pitchers have a breakout spring training why they can’t be successful at the ML level.

    ————————————–

    when you say our young pitchers, do you mean the guys who have yet to face AA hitters?

  269. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:51 am

    30 of King Felix’s 35 starts were Quality Starts.

    dang

  270. DaSaint007 December 20th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    MLBTR.com:
    The Indians signed outfielder Austin Kearns to a one-year, Major League contract…

    …which means he’s just as available if needed later in the season. Cashman probalby has that number on speed dial. Imagine trading for the same person twice in 2 years. Last time it was for Zach McAllister.

  271. BJK December 20th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:46 am
    “I’m not saying I want to do it,” general manager Brian Cashman said in a telephone conversation Monday morning, “but I may have to do it.”

    ***********

    Defeatism is not becoming of a GM of a billion dollar franchise.

    ————————————————————————————————–

    Yes. Cashman should sound much more desperate in his press conferences. “I’ll upgrade the rotation no matter what the cost so help me” would be much more becoming of a GM of a billion dollar franchise.

  272. austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 11:53 am

    The news from Cashman keeps getting better. His message seems to be that other teams had the opportunity to improve this winter, but the Yankees just couldn’t do it. Panicked, no. Depressed, yes.

  273. blake December 20th, 2010 at 11:53 am

    Carlo,

    I think the chances of that are very slim. The reality is that a lot of things can happen with young pitchers in 4 years.

  274. Wave Your Hat December 20th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    blake-

    The two pitchers are excellent, and Escobar and Cain can play positions the Royals need now. Nunez and Escobar just aren’t comparable, IMO.

  275. ac1 December 20th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    We are so used to seeing Cashman make a lot of big moves, that it seems deflating now. I would still guess that he comes up with something.

  276. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    jacksquat–

    Do you really think your going to get the same season like last year from Andy ?? He’s 40 . .not getting any younger or stronger ?

  277. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    BJK,

    He doesn’t sound in dire straits and desperation to you right now?

  278. Joe from Long Island December 20th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    ac 1 – The worst time to do a deal is when everyone knows you have to do a deal.

    Cash has gone on record and said that there’s pitching out there and available. The only question is price, what you’re willing to pay. Since the 2011 season isn’t starting any time soon, why not let the world know you’re ok with what you have, and may wait until the summer to pick someone up? Seems to me that’s how you try to avoid being taken to the cleaners.

  279. BJK December 20th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:51 am
    30 of King Felix’s 35 starts were Quality Starts.

    dang

    —————————————————————————————

    Because King Felix is an elite pitcher.

  280. Latroy Farnsworth December 20th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Hey Latroy,

    I hear you, but it?s interesting how many of us see players on other teams who had down years as having the capability to bounce back, but when it?s our own player ? like Cervelli ? we?re ready to jettison him.

    Frankly, I think Montero will be fine ? but I?d rather him start at AAA getting more experience behind the plate than just once a week. Cervelli can rebound, and he?s actually proven to have a pretty decent arm when his catching/throwing mechanics are right.

    DaSaint I hear what you are saying but offensively I think we’ve seen enough out of Cervelli to know what he is capable of, and it’s not much. Which is why I think its better for everyone if Montero can make the squad out of ST

  281. blake December 20th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Wave,

    My point was that the Yankees and many other teams could have topped that offer if they wanted to.

  282. GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 11:51 am
    tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 11:48 am

    I don’t see why, if our young pitchers have a breakout spring training why they can’t be successful at the ML level.

    ————————————–

    when you say our young pitchers, do you mean the guys who have yet to face AA hitters?

  283. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Edwin Jackson is the one attainable guy worth talking to CWS about.
    Buehrle is too expensive salary wise.
    Danks is unattainable.
    Gavin Floyd is cheap enough and under control for an extra year thus making him more valuable to them and requiring more than just a salary relief type deal

  284. tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    Carlo

    I was referring to Nova, who has already played at the ML level, Brackman, maybe in the bullpen though most likely not right away and maybe Noesi. I know they wont call up Betances or Banuelos because it would be bad for their development and I’m sure the Yankees org. isn’t desperate enough to make a careless move like that.

  285. BJK December 20th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:54 am
    BJK,

    He doesn’t sound in dire straits and desperation to you right now?

    ——————————————————————————————————

    He sounds like he’s trying to temper expectations from the media and fan base to me.

    He sounds like he’s waiting for the right deal to come along that makes sense for the franchise not only for 2011, but 2012 and beyond.

    This is why starting pitching is the most valued commodity in the game and you can never have enough, especially when you’re the New York Yankees and the price is always higher.

  286. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 11:59 am

    # blake December 20th, 2010 at 11:53 am

    Carlo,

    I think the chances of that are very slim. The reality is that a lot of things can happen with young pitchers in 4 years.

    ———————————————–

    Exactly my point. Yet the sense I get is that if one of them is traded in a deal that helps the near term, Yankee universe will implode.

  287. tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Oops, that last post should have been directed at GB not Carlo

  288. blake December 20th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Wave,

    What does Escobar do dramatically better than Nunez….besides having more big league experience.? He’s a better defender right now.

  289. Latroy Farnsworth December 20th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Cashman sounds like a beaten dog right now as he should. GMs like Epstein have taken him to school this offseason.

  290. CCBiggs December 20th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    If the Mariners offered Felix Hernandez in exchange for Montero, Joba, Ivan Nova, and a good prospect in Single A, should the Yankees make that trade?

  291. jacksquat December 20th, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 11:54 am
    jacksquat–

    Do you really think your going to get the same season like last year from Andy ?? He’s 40 . .not getting any younger or stronger ?

    Probably not. But I think Hughes should improve, and possibly Burnett won’t be quite as bad, which would make up for Andy being more normal.

    But they really need another good lefty in the rotation, and Banuelos is probably not a consideration unless he really wows everyone in spring training (and Andy needs to be signed before ST anyway).

  292. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    # tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    Carlo

    I was referring to Nova, who has already played at the ML level, Brackman, maybe in the bullpen though most likely not right away and maybe Noesi. I know they wont call up Betances or Banuelos because it would be bad for their development and I’m sure the Yankees org. isn’t desperate enough to make a careless move like that.
    ——————————————————————

    Ok – thats what I thought but wasnt sure. I like Nova and I think he can be a good pitcher at the major league level. Nothing great, but definitely a viable 5th starter on a contending team.

    Brackman likely ends up in the pen so that could speed up his trajectory to the big leagues.

    Not sure where/how Noesi fits in right now. Is he an upgrade from Nova? Just dont know.

  293. austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Joe from L.I.,

    The trading deadline is a difficult time to pick up a quality pitcher. Furthermore, waiting until 2/3 of the season is over to fix an obvious problem is a terrible strategy. Two unproven, unacclaimed starters for 2/3 if the season, in my opinion, will mean no playoffs.

  294. GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 11:51 am
    tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 11:48 am

    I don’t see why, if our young pitchers have a breakout spring training why they can’t be successful at the ML level.

    ————————————–

    when you say our young pitchers, do you mean the guys who have yet to face AA hitters?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Not that you bothered to check, but, all of them spent the last month of their seasons in at least AA in 2010. Phelps and Mitchell both made at least 10 AAA starts and Noesi also spent the last month in AAA. Overall, only Banuelos will have innings limitations the coming season.

  295. Nick in SF December 20th, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Oh what a sorry fate we’ll meet
    When we trust a Heyman tweet

  296. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    # tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Oops, that last post should have been directed at GB not Carlo
    ———————————

    No – you had it right, GB copied and pasted our convo but didnt say anything. not sure what happened there, but you answered the right person.

  297. DaSaint007 December 20th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Cashman must be bluffing in an attempt to lower the trade demands for starting pitchers.

    He couldn’t be serious about a rotation of:
    CC
    Hughes
    AJ
    Nova
    Mitre/Betances/Warren/Noesi/Banuelos.

    Not for 2011.

  298. jacksquat December 20th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Chad, despite what I said before, sadly I think this might be a good time for that Cashman pic again…

  299. Giuseppe Franco December 20th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    # Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Nobody should question Heyman’s tweet. Jon Heyman is GOD!

    :lol:

    Seriously though, he scooped ESPN on the mystery team for Cliff Lee (Don’t cry Guiseppe)

    ———

    You can try to change topics if you wish, but the truth of matter is the only guy crying here everyday about fantasy trades falling through is you.

    If you’re going to claim I was crying about Lee at any point, I challenge you to prove it.

    But you won’t find a single post like that from me because it didn’t happen.

    So now you’re a liar, too. Like your trades, throw whatever sheeeeet against the wall to see if it sticks.

  300. BJK December 20th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    Latroy Farnsworth December 20th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
    Cashman sounds like a beaten dog right now as he should. GMs like Epstein have taken him to school this offseason.

    ————————————————————————————————

    Boston finished in 3rd place last year, had massive holes in their line-up to fill with Beltre and Martinez out the door, and tons of money to spend. Did you think they weren’t going to spend it?

  301. Dylan December 20th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    # CCBiggs December 20th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    If the Mariners offered Felix Hernandez in exchange for Montero, Joba, Ivan Nova, and a good prospect in Single A, should the Yankees make that trade?
    ______________________________________________________________

    No doubt! I would give up Hughes, Montero, Nunez, and one of the B’s for him. He is that good!

  302. RSM December 20th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Chad,
    Thanks for the voice of reason.

  303. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    geesuss!

    the orix buffaloes sign chan ho park…………………..GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR REAR CASHMAN! Another awesome player gone.

  304. Joe from Long Island December 20th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    austinmac – why do you think they’ll wait for 2/3 of the season to pass? I’m just suggesting that to do a deal at an perceived obvious time of need will result in a greater price being paid. Who wants that?

  305. yankee21 December 20th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    ….If the Mariners offered Felix Hernandez in exchange for Montero, Joba, Ivan Nova, and a good prospect in Single A, should the Yankees make that trade…

    ——————-
    As long as that A prospect is not either B. Marshall or G. Sanchez, that is a trade I make.

  306. tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Carlo

    I haven’t seen Noesi and I can’t look up his numbers so I don’t know to compare him to Nova. I would say Nova has the upper hand in that he has already gotten some big league experience. if they are going into ST with a 4th or 5th spot need(though I think andy will come back) then they will probably let nova and whoever else work for that fifth spot, which I wouldn’t mind at all. I think our guys are good enough to be successful in the rotation.

  307. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Guiseppe,

    touchy touchy

  308. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    # Joe from Long Island December 20th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    austinmac – why do you think they’ll wait for 2/3 of the season to pass? I’m just suggesting that to do a deal at an perceived obvious time of need will result in a greater price being paid. Who wants that?

    ——————————————–

    Arent deadline deals generally more expensive though just because the only teams actively looking are trying to make a title run and the pool of those teams has been minimized?

  309. GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Dylan December 20th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
    # CCBiggs December 20th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    If the Mariners offered Felix Hernandez in exchange for Montero, Joba, Ivan Nova, and a good prospect in Single A, should the Yankees make that trade?
    ______________________________________________________________

    No doubt! I would give up Hughes, Montero, Nunez, and one of the B’s for him. He is that good!

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    How in the Hell does trading Hughes for another pitcher help when the team still would need at least one and probably 2 starters? What happens if Martin isn’t ready to catch, gets hurt or bombs out? Who catches? Cervelli or a AA catcher?

  310. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Now you guys are being cheap with Felix Hernandez proposals.

    The package would be headlined by Phil Hughes + Jesus Montero.

  311. GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
    Carlo

    I haven’t seen Noesi and I can’t look up his numbers so I don’t know to compare him to Nova. I would say Nova has the upper hand in that he has already gotten some big league experience. if they are going into ST with a 4th or 5th spot need(though I think andy will come back) then they will probably let nova and whoever else work for that fifth spot, which I wouldn’t mind at all. I think our guys are good enough to be successful in the rotation.

  312. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    # tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Carlo

    I think our guys are good enough to be successful in the rotation.

    ————————————

    Agreed – i am ok with the 5th spot being Nova’s on opening day. frankly, the 5th spot wont matter all that much. to win this year, we need CC to be himself and the 2-4 spots to deliver.

    Need another good year from Andy, the 2008/09 version of AJ, and the 2012 first half version of Hughes. Asking a lot, but if we get it, then Nova/Mitre/Garcia/etc will be fine in the 5 spot.

  313. jacksquat December 20th, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    Felix Hernandez is not up for trade so we can stop talking about that.

    It would take a “blow me away” offer, probably starting with Cano + Hughes + Montero.

    That’s why Cashman said “that’s not happening”.

  314. Nick in SF December 20th, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    I really don’t think CC-Hughes-AJ-Nova-Mitre/calup would be a problem.

    /2011 Bridge Year’d

  315. GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
    Carlo

    I haven’t seen Noesi and I can’t look up his numbers so I don’t know to compare him to Nova. I would say Nova has the upper hand in that he has already gotten some big league experience. if they are going into ST with a 4th or 5th spot need(though I think andy will come back) then they will probably let nova and whoever else work for that fifth spot, which I wouldn’t mind at all. I think our guys are good enough to be successful in the rotation.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Noesi is a little better version of Nova. A little better fastball, curve and change-up, same
    age.

    http://www.baseball-reference......esi-001hec

  316. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Wrong. Felix wouldn’t cost Cano + Hughes + Montero.

    The Mariners have holes all over place. To say that they match up with a team like NY with a deep farm and high prospects is a gross understatement.

    Plenty of merchandise in the shop.

    Aim high.

  317. Dylan December 20th, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    # GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    How in the Hell does trading Hughes for another pitcher help when the team still would need at least one and probably 2 starters? What happens if Martin isn’t ready to catch, gets hurt or bombs out? Who catches? Cervelli or a AA catcher?
    ___________________________________________________________________

    Because the pitcher we would be trading for is arguably the best pitcher in baseball. I don’t think it was our lack of depth at pitcher that hurt us in the playoffs. It was our lack of quality pitching, and front end starters. Hughes is good, but he isn’t even in the same league as King Felix. Also, the Yankees have named Martin as their starting catcher, so I am fairly certain he will be ready. If he isn’t, we will be in the same position as last year. We can have Posada catch another year, have Cervelli catch a lot of games, call up a AA catcher, or trade for a catcher.

  318. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    sigh… the mariners are not trading felix. already said so. bret strikes(out) again.

  319. Joe from Long Island December 20th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    carlo – who said deadline deal, only? I’m only suggesting that by waiting, possibly into the season, things may change to the Yanks’ favor. Who’d a thought that Kerry Wood would have been available, and, yet, that turned out well. The lay of the land is constantly changing. Something more favorable may happen. Like they say in the lottery commercials, ya never know.

  320. GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Dylan December 20th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
    # GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    How in the Hell does trading Hughes for another pitcher help when the team still would need at least one and probably 2 starters? What happens if Martin isn’t ready to catch, gets hurt or bombs out? Who catches? Cervelli or a AA catcher?
    ___________________________________________________________________

    Because the pitcher we would be trading for is arguably the best pitcher in baseball. I don’t think it was our lack of depth at pitcher that hurt us in the playoffs. It was our lack of quality pitching, and front end starters. Hughes is good, but he isn’t even in the same league as King Felix. Also, the Yankees have named Martin as their starting catcher, so I am fairly certain he will be ready. If he isn’t, we will be in the same position as last year. We can have Posada catch another year, have Cervelli catch a lot of games, call up a AA catcher, or trade for a catcher

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Wrong on all counts.

  321. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Guys . .Forget King Felix and just face the facts .. what we have now is pretty much our team going into next season.

    The Cavalry isn’t coming

  322. austinmac December 20th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Joe,

    The July 31st trading deadline is about when most trades occur. That means all of April-July will have been played meaning 4 months gone with two months remaining.

    Let’s say the Yankees win 2/3 of the games when CC and Hughes pitch and 1/2 of the games when AJ pitches. They would have to win 1/2 the games of the 4th and 5th starters to win 90 games. I don’t see them winning that many of those games with so many likely to see the starter out early. That doesn’t even consider the havoc these starters will wreak on the pen.

    I don’t like being negative about a team I have cheered for for 50 years, but pitching wins and the Yankees are very short. Could something still happen? I sure hope so.

  323. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Dylan December 20th, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Because the pitcher we would be trading for is arguably the best pitcher in baseball. I don’t think it was our lack of depth at pitcher that hurt us in the playoffs. It was our lack of quality pitching, and front end starters.

    ***********

    Bingo. You’re swapping Hughes for Felix with an eye on the short series or better yet, the improved chances of winning Felix’s 2 ALCS or WS starts over the probability of Hughes doing that.

    If you have a 1-2 punch of CC-King Felix, you’ll contend for a WS ring every year for the next 5 years while the window to win with Jeter and Arod is still open.

  324. heyman_sux December 20th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    The lack of quality pitching was not what hurt in the playoffs. It was that the bats had gone silent, plain and simple. It would be nice for piece of mind to have King Felix, but it’s not going to happen.

    Not to mention trading Hughes gets you nowhere. Felix is leaps and bounds better than Phil – but Felix isn’t going to win more than the 18 that Phil had last year, regardless of the team he’s on.

  325. tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    GB7

    So in your opinion, if they go into ST needing the fifth starter to come from the farm, do you right now see Nova getting the spot of Noesi. I know it can all change by the end of march but if the season started today who do you think would snag that spot? Also assuming Andy comes back.

  326. Dylan December 20th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    # GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Wrong on all counts.
    __________________________________________________________________

    Whatever you say. Glad you aren’t the GM of the team, because only you value unproven prospects and a middle of the rotation starter over the best pitcher in baseball.

  327. Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    Bingo. You’re swapping Hughes for Felix with an eye on the short series or better yet, the improved chances of winning Felix’s 2 ALCS or WS starts over the probability of Hughes doing that.

    So you sacrafice the entire season to plan for a postseason they may not make? you would be an awful GM.

  328. Carlo December 20th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    # Joe from Long Island December 20th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    carlo – who said deadline deal, only? I’m only suggesting that by waiting, possibly into the season, things may change to the Yanks’ favor. Who’d a thought that Kerry Wood would have been available, and, yet, that turned out well. The lay of the land is constantly changing. Something more favorable may happen. Like they say in the lottery commercials, ya never know.

    ————————————————-

    Nobody said it, i was merely stating my opinion that sometimes the deadline is an even more desperate time. I fully agree with your view……the window is long…..we can wait and find something suitable in time.

  329. Erin December 20th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    comet December 20th, 2010 at 10:20 am
    MTU, GB, Erin and Kate good morning!

    Erin and Kate are you getting snow? We are!!!!!!

    **********************
    Hi comet! yes, we have plenty of snow, and are supposed to get more today. :x

  330. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 20th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
    Bingo. You’re swapping Hughes for Felix with an eye on the short series or better yet, the improved chances of winning Felix’s 2 ALCS or WS starts over the probability of Hughes doing that.

    So you sacrafice the entire season to plan for a postseason they may not make? you would be an awful GM.

    ********

    Are you saying a staff headed by CC and King Felix backed by this offense would miss the playoffs?

    If so, you’d be an even worse GM.

  331. Erin December 20th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    JackCurryYES Yankee official said they weren’t “willing to take a chance” on Greinke. Royals targeted Montero, Nunez & 2 pitchers, as @SI JonHeyman noted

  332. jacksquat December 20th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    I don’t know how much more clear it can be.

    Seattle said Felix is not available.

    Cashman said it’s not happening.

    That’s pretty much the end of the discussion unless you want hypothesize that Seattle and Cashman are being ultra stealth. That would be a hypothesis with no basis.

  333. Dylan December 20th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    # Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    ***********

    Bingo. You’re swapping Hughes for Felix with an eye on the short series or better yet, the improved chances of winning Felix’s 2 ALCS or WS starts over the probability of Hughes doing that.

    If you have a 1-2 punch of CC-King Felix, you’ll contend for a WS ring every year for the next 5 years while the window to win with Jeter and Arod is still open.
    ________________________________________________________________

    I agree. Anyone who doesn’t think that two elite pitchers can win a team a World Series must have been asleep during the 2001 season.

  334. Mike Ri December 20th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    New Thread Guys —- >

  335. Erin December 20th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    New Post: Kearns lands back in Cleveland

    :arrow:

  336. Bret The Hitman December 20th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    I want to hypothesize that Seattle and Cashman are being ultra stealth.

    Saying that they’re not being ultra stealth is also a hypothesis with no basis.

  337. blake December 20th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Call the Marlins and offer a package around Montero and Betances for Johnson. That’s more likely than Felix. They probably wouldn’t trade him but I think they’d be more likely to than Seattle. If they say no then plan B engages……oh right….ok then there’s always Freddy Garcia….

  338. GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    tyanksfan36 December 20th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
    GB7

    So in your opinion, if they go into ST needing the fifth starter to come from the farm, do you right now see Nova getting the spot of Noesi. I know it can all change by the end of march but if the season started today who do you think would snag that spot? Also assuming Andy comes back.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Just a guess, but, the order would/could be Nova, Phelps, Mitchell and Noesi.

  339. Joe from Long Island December 20th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    austinmac – I understand what you’re saying. Those are good points. I’m saying one has to balance your needs with the marketplace, and try to make any deal at the price that most’s advantageous. I don’t any of us really expects Cash to say that his rotation stinks – one, because that’s an exaggeration (IMO), two because I can’t imagine it would make CC, Hughes, AJ, and Nova feel too good about the organization’s lack of faith in them, and three because it announces to every other GM that he’s desperate; and the prices will skyrocket accordingly.

    Again, the games don’t start for a while. Things aren’t written in stone. I think there are worse things than not making a deal. Like, making a bad deal that haunts you even worse.

  340. GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Dylan December 20th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
    # GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Wrong on all counts.
    __________________________________________________________________

    Whatever you say. Glad you aren’t the GM of the team, because only you value unproven prospects and a middle of the rotation starter over the best pitcher in baseball.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    so, hughes is unproven? Exactly what would the Yankees gain in your little trade. Not only do the lose the best young power hitter in the top level of the minors and a catcher, but, an emergency for Jeter plus two more pitchers from the top of the ladder?

    At least you and Bret might make it to assistant GMs of a T-ball team.

  341. West Coast Yankee Fan December 20th, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    I am not a gratuitous Cashman detractor, I don’t think he’s the best, but neither is he the worst General Manager in baseball. I think it fair to say, to date, the last two off-season’s have not been good ones for him.

    I would like to remind everyone of Cashman’s own words speaking about the 2009-10 off season:

    “I didn’t have a great winter last year. A lot of the things I wound up doing didn’t benefit us as much as I wish they would”.

    And this year, so far, is looking poor as well. Is he not the Yankee equivalent of a general? Does he not deserve the responsibility for what gets done or doesn’t get done? One can make excuses for him ad infinitum, that’s not how you evaluate effective leadership IMO.

  342. yclept December 20th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    I am not going to make excuses for anybody, but I still think it is a bit silly to go after pricey free agent relief pitchers. It just doesn’t work…and yet, teams keep going hard after veteran relievers season after season after season.

    This was not a good free agent market for the Yankees beyond Cliff Lee. Obviously, they didn’t feel Greiinke wasn’t a good fit, and there isn’t any way that Toronto would have sent us Marcum.

    Fausto Carmona? Eh is all I have to say about him.

  343. David in Cal December 20th, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    Well, I’m disappointed in Cashman. Suppose he had signed Jeter for $12m/year instead of $17m and added the diffrence to Lee’s offer, would that have made a difference? We’ll never know.

  344. Dylan December 20th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    # GreenBeret7 December 20th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    so, hughes is unproven? Exactly what would the Yankees gain in your little trade. Not only do the lose the best young power hitter in the top level of the minors and a catcher, but, an emergency for Jeter plus two more pitchers from the top of the ladder?

    At least you and Bret might make it to assistant GMs of a T-ball team.
    _____________________________________________________________________

    I never said Hughes was unproven. I called him a middle of the rotation starter, and I called the prospects unproven. I’m a huge fan on Montero. I said all along that I wouldn’t trade him for Greinke, and I was against trading him for Lee. Pitching wins championships though, and King Felix is an unbelievable talent and is only a couple years older than Montero. He is maybe the only player in baseball that I would give up Montero for.

  345. Dill Pickler December 20th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Sorry, Chad, but just because you say stuff like “The lineup didn’t need to improve” doesn’t make it true.

    Here are the facts:

    The Yankees scored 3 runs or less in 54 games last season. 54!!!

    Yes, they led the league in runs scored, but put those two facts together and you have what many of us already know, that the Yankees offense is wildly inconsistent and too often completely shut down by even mediocre pitching.

    The writers of this blog seem sometimes to be paid apologists for Yankee management.

  346. ryanm December 20th, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    Boston will regret giving Carl Crawford a 7 year deal, and Philly will regret giving Cliff Lee 6 years. The Nationals severely overpaid for Werth, but they needed to in order to become a spot free agents want to go to. Really, the only great move of the offseason is Adrian Gonzalez, and the Yankees had no use for him. Obviously I want our team to have 9 all-stars in the lineup, and 5 aces in the rotation, but this offseason was not right for the Yankees.

    I’m glad they didn’t follow the 2001-2008 strategy of paying an older pitcher for what he has done in the past, and not for the future, even if they were trying to do it. And forget Crawford or Werth. They weren’t worth 9 figures… period.


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