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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


From Hank’s Yanks to the real Yanks

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 21, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Here’s a long shot that’s worth cheering for.

The Yankees have signed a 19-year-old kid named Leonel Vinas to a minor league deal. The signing comes after Vinas stood out as the ace of Hank’s Yanks, a summer league team sponsored by Hank Steinbrenner. My friend Bryan Hoch has the story.

“They told me, ‘You’ve got a chance to be a Yankee,’” Vinas said. “When they first told me that, I didn’t believe it. I didn’t think it was true. As the season went on, it got bigger and bigger, and here we are now. My dreams are coming true.”

Vinas moved from the Dominican Republic to Long Island when he was 11. By his own account, he was doing nothing but “being in the streets” before getting serious about pitching for Hank’s Yankees. Through 84 innings he had a 12-0 record, a 1.12 ERA and 168 strikeouts. Those numbers don’t mean much in the big picture, but they certainly prove he was considerably better than his competition and ready for another sort of challenge. It’s a long shot at best, but these are the kind of chances that are well worth taking.

“This is real. He’s got talent,” Cashman told Hoch. “We’re looking forward to seeing where the talent takes him. I try to tell all the players that we sign, we’re going to make sure that we provide everything at our disposal to see if the dreams can come true.”

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198 Responses to “From Hank’s Yanks to the real Yanks”

  1. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    It’s a great story, Chad. Maybe he and Mariano Rivera jr. can be team mates down the line.

  2. sevrox December 21st, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    But wouldn’t the ‘real Yanks’ be ‘Hank’s Yanks’?

  3. West Coast Yankee Fan December 21st, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    Joba just did not have what it took to be an effective starting pitcher, in the AL East, with this team. It’s a huge positive that the Yankees realized that fairly quickly, and didn’t waste time trying to fit a round peg in a square hole.

    Just because you move slowly and give a pitcher more time doesn’t mean it’s the right move. The Yankees professional staff was eminently qualified to make the decision on his future, Joba was not a new commodity to them in the spring of 2010.

    I personally believe it was the right move. He was not a good starting pitcher.

  4. SAS December 21st, 2010 at 6:53 pm

    Love that story, Chad.

  5. blake December 21st, 2010 at 6:53 pm

    Can he pitch this year? :) Cool story

  6. SAS December 21st, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    Good evening GB, sir.

  7. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    SAS, I’m doing just fine, thank you. Happy to see you made it through the monsoons to get home safely. Wishing you and family aa happy holiday season and best wishes for the new year.

  8. Jerkface December 21st, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    Joba would never make it as a starter in the AL east, if he only he threw mid 90s with 4 pitches. He will never be able to shut out the red sox over 7 innings with 9 strike outs.

  9. Doreen December 21st, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    GB7 -

    I was just about to ask you what is Hank’ Yanks, and Chad’s post appeared!

    What a great story. Good luck to him. :)

  10. Doreen December 21st, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    Jerkface,

    I sometimes wonder if that Joba was a mirage….

  11. West Coast Yankee Fan December 21st, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    Jerkface – it’s about doing it consistently.

  12. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    Doreen, hank is good for something. He’s running his own private farm system. It’ll be interesting to see if this league turns up a Frank White or UL Washingto like the old KC Royals Baseball Academy did.

  13. Jerkface December 21st, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    Jerkface,

    I sometimes wonder if that Joba was a mirage….

    I honestly believe Joba’s relegation to the pen has to do with his personal life or some sort of actions behind the scenes: bad work ethic or something similar. He had a 10 k/9 as a starter in 2008, and while he struggled in 2009 he was young. It annoyed me greatly that the yankees gave up on him.

  14. blake December 21st, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    I don’t think Hank is as bad as he’s made out. He’s gives us a glimpse of George every now and then…..both the good and the bad.

  15. Jerkface December 21st, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    Jerkface – it’s about doing it consistently.

    Joba’s 2 ERA in 2008 was very consistent. HE was league average until the yankees started limiting him in 2009. Now at that point it was on Joba for not doing anything with short pitch counts, but until then he was league average and still showed he could start.

    How can anyone do anything consistently when they are not given the chance? He was building his innings, getting ready to have the training wheels off this year. Instead they shoved him back in the bullpen. Had he failed last year (been worse than league average) then I guess you’d have room to complain.

  16. Bronx Jeers December 21st, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    I believe Joba would have continued to start in 2010 on many teams.

  17. Doreen December 21st, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    jerkface -

    I definitely get the feeling there’s a piece of the puzzle missing with what we know about Joba’s situation.

    It’s certainly one of those things that you really wish had worked out differently. I’m sure the Yankees feel the same or did.

    ****

    I like seeing a part of Hank Steinbrenner that isn’t fodder for parody.

  18. UpState December 21st, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    JOBA.
    Too bad Roger Clemens wasn’t around.
    He would’ve kept JOBA’s old SOB attitude at the level he needed.
    He lost it…gone.
    Now hes an 0-2 nibbler – which invariably ends up with a disappointing 2-strike hit.
    Then back he goes to more nibbling at 0-2 on the next batter….
    “Groundhog Day”
    Are the any old retired SOB pitchers that we can hire cheaply for the bullpen to get the fire ‘re-lit’ with JOBA ?
    Damn – he used to just get them 0-2 and ‘put them to shame” !

    I really miss THAT Joba…..hopefully someone can can find him.

  19. blake December 21st, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    Don’t know if these have been posted but fairly interesting.

    http://www.pinstripedbible.com.....%E2%80%A6/

  20. blake December 21st, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    http://www.pinstripedbible.com.....is-coming/

  21. Yogi Mantle December 21st, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    The biggest problem that we had seen with Joba the Starter was that his pitch count elevated and it took him more and more pitches to make outs. Once they had limited his outing to 5 innings, he seemed determined to pitch 120 pitches within those 5 innings.

    I’m not sure if that was the tipping point with him being a bullpen pitcher, but it seemed he lost velocity and aggressiveness as a starter. Trouble is that hasn’t seemed to come back after being back in the pen.

    I do think he could still be a starter, as his year as a starter wasn’t worse than many other very good young pitchers are when they are breaking in. I have to think the trouble was from him getting hurt and his inability to get deep into games. I wonder if there is some underlying concern the Yankees have about him being able to remain healthy as a starter.

    I do think it seems like the Yankees pulled him out of the starter role a bit too quick, but they might have more cause than is revealed to us.

  22. Bronx Jeers December 21st, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    Maybe one day Elton John will write a song about Joba.

  23. Ruby Tuesday December 21st, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    I think this latest development deserves a ” L . o . l . ”

    Brian Cashman probably still doesn’t know the 2011 World Champions signed *dr*n G*nz*l*z .

  24. Ruby Tuesday December 21st, 2010 at 7:24 pm

    :(

  25. SAS December 21st, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    GB,

    Not a drop of rain all the way here, but it is supposed to rain a lot tonight and tomorrow. So much for the desert.

    I want to wish you a wonderful Christmas and a healthy, happy New Year.

  26. YankeeRay December 21st, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    SAS December 21st, 2010 at 6:48 pm
    YankeeRay,

    I tend to agree with you about Posada being the full time DH, however, he does deserve a chance to prove himself in that role. If a long time vet, like Guerrero would sign for not much, I like him on the bench, or a guy like Thome. The Yankees could use the extra big bat.

    ——–

    SAS, why does he deserve a chance to prove himself when he is already killing us with his salary when the going rate for a dh is 5-6mm.
    He is a double play waiting to happen and a base clogger when he gets on.
    His true value is a LH hitter mainly in YS.

    On top of that if we wait and he starts slow it will be to late to add a big bat that I think we need as well.

    A RH bat is needed and I’d rather go for Manny for 1 year than Vlad as at least Manny can play a little OF where Vlad is DH only, same as Thome.

  27. have a cigar December 21st, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    What a sad, pathetic life you must lead, Ruby Tuesday.

    Did your mother not give you enough love as a child?

  28. blake December 21st, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    Cashman’s quote on Jorge 2011.

    Brian Cashman told reporters this afternoon that Jorge Posada was in fact slated to be the team’s regular designated hitter next season. “He’s our DH,” said Cashman. “That’s what he is, unless he plays himself off it.”

    Sounds like Posada is the DH as long as he stays healthy and performs. If Montero hits and Martin plays well then Montero could steal some DH AB’s if Posada isn’t getting it done.

  29. DaSaint007 December 21st, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    Great story, and hope the kid makes it through the system. Would be fun to see a true ‘home grown’ Yankee actually from NY.

  30. Jerkface December 21st, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    ounds like Posada is the DH as long as he stays healthy and performs. If Montero hits and Martin plays well then Montero could steal some DH AB’s if Posada isn’t getting it done.

    I read it the other way, if Posada is healthy and swinging it he will get reps behind the plate.

  31. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    SAS December 21st, 2010 at 7:26 pm
    GB,

    Not a drop of rain all the way here, but it is supposed to rain a lot tonight and tomorrow. So much for the desert.

    I want to wish you a wonderful Christmas and a healthy, happy New Year.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    SAS, good news about not having to drive through the rain. I was under the assumption that he entire southwest was getting drenched. I hated driving in the rain on trips. Always felt beat up after an hour of it. Thank you for the holiday wishes, Lady.

  32. LGY December 21st, 2010 at 7:37 pm

    DaSaint,

    Betances is someone to really follow also.

    Brooklyn kid that basically told every team before the draft he would only sign with the Yankees.

  33. blake December 21st, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    Jerkface,

    I agree that if Posada is healthy and performing then he’ll catch “some” but they really haven’t given much indication with their statements and by signing Martin that they want him back there all that often.

  34. DaSaint007 December 21st, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    Thanks LGY. I know you and GB follow these kids a lot.

    We learn a lot more about these players and their personalities through you guys, so thank you.

  35. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    On MLB Network the had the Prime 9 pitchers turned hitters, they misfired on Mark McGwire and Smokey Joe Wood. Replace Darwin with Lefty O’Doul and Wood with Bob Lemon.

  36. Jerkface December 21st, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    but they really haven’t given much indication with their statements

    In the statement you just quoted Cashman himself says he can play himself into catching time.

  37. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    oooops. It was pitchers to hitters. Leave Wood and drop Lemon.

  38. blake December 21st, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    Lgy,

    True….probably the main reason he fell to the Yanks and that they have him now

  39. DaSaint007 December 21st, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    Anyway, see you folks later.
    Baby Templar time.

  40. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    Here’s a gamble worth taking on a minor league deal.

    “The Nationals have designated Matt Chico for assignment, according to the team (on Twitter). The 27-year-old left-hander started one game for Washington in 2010 after missing the 2009 season because of Tommy John surgery.”

    From MLB-Rumors-R-Us

  41. blake December 21st, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    “in the statement you just quoted Cashman himself says he can play himself into catching time.”

    Sounded like to me he’s was saying that he was the DH unless he played himself off of it….meaning if he played himself out of the job. I’m not sure which interpretation he meant but I don’t think they intend Jorge to catch much this season.

  42. Jerkface December 21st, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    Sounded like to me he’s was saying that he was the DH unless he played himself off of it….meaning if he played himself out of the job.

    Why would Cash make a public statement suggesting Jorge could play himself out of a job? The way the statement is phrased should explain it.

    Question: Will Jorge Catch?
    Answer: Jorge is going to go into the season as the full time DH, he will be the DH unless he plays himself off of it

    In response to a ‘Will Jorge Catch’ question, I think it leans towards my interpretation.

  43. Cashman needs to go December 21st, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    This is what I’ve been telling you folks for the last week or so…..the plan all along was to get below 200 million this year and under the luxury tax for next year….for Dorky Cashman and his sneaky scumbag Cousin Hal it doesn’t matter anymore whether they win the WS (or even make it to the playoffs) all they really care about at this point is becoming a run of the mill team with an average payroll as long as the Yes network and the snookered yankee fans keeps pumping the dollars into their bank accounts..the part the really makes me sick to my stomach is how happy this bleeping nerd cashman is when he says “Atta baby. And right now we’re in the $170s,”

    motherbleeper both him and Hal – this is why they are signing all of these has been’s and never will be’s………. George is really rolling in that grave right about now…

    ***********************

    NEW YORK (AP)—The New York Yankees lowered spending on players by $12 million this year, cutting payroll by $5 million and slashing their major league-leading luxury tax by more than $7 million.

    New York was hit with an $18 million luxury tax Tuesday by Major League Baseball. The tax was New York’s lowest since 2003 and down from $25.7 million last year, when the Yankees won the World Series.

    “Atta baby. And right now we’re in the $170s,” Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said, looking ahead to his 2011 payroll.

  44. randy l. December 21st, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    “That’s what he is, unless he plays himself off it.”

    i’d say cashman is the gm this summer unless he plays himself off of it.

  45. Jerkface December 21st, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    Come on Randy, we both know the GM doesn’t play anything. He’d have to calculate his way off of it.

  46. SAS December 21st, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    YankeeRay,

    I would have no objection to Manny if the Yankees want to pay him as a part time DH. What about his ‘dreds’?

    Posada can still catch too. He signed a contract almost 4 years ago. Management wasn’t forced to give him a 4th year, but did it to keep him from going to the Mets…so you could say we are paying him for nothing this year, but for the last 3. I think Posada will be OK in his new role for one year.

    His contract is better for the Yankees than Arod’s will be.

  47. blake December 21st, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    Also, Mike Axisa called that statement by Cashman ” harsh”….suggesting that he took it the way I did. Either way, I doubt Posada catches alot this year….if he’s healthy enough Tk do so and is able then that’s fine by me but I don’t think that’s what they are planning for.

  48. blake December 21st, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    How is Posada going to earn time behind the plate if he’s the DH?

  49. LGY December 21st, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    “We’re doing a better job of managing our payroll and managing our decision-making as we enter the free-agent market,” Cashman said. “Our payroll doesn’t necessarily have to live at that level, but it’s nice to know that our owners are committed to allow us to get there if we need to.”

  50. randy l. December 21st, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    since it worked so good last year, why not have another competition for the 5th spot and let joba compete for the job?

  51. Bronx Jeers December 21st, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    Sounded like to me he’s was saying that he was the DH unless he played himself off of it….meaning if he played himself out of the job

    ———————————

    That what I got out of it.

    If he’s the full time DH then how is he supposed to turn that into catching? Are they going to say he’s hitting great lets move him into catcher where he could potentially get injured?

    To me it was just more of Cashman’s weaselspeak.

  52. Jerkface December 21st, 2010 at 8:09 pm

    Also, Mike Axisa called that statement by Cashman ” harsh”

    RAB’s view point is on the fact that the statement says Posada is the full-time DH, and not a part time catcher. I don’t think the Harsh is for the second portion.

  53. tyanksfan36 December 21st, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    I took the jorge DH statement as Jorge will be the DH unless he puts up Nick Johnson 2010 DH numbers then they’ll look for someone else. I sure hope that’s not the case, I think Jorge will be fine knowing his role.

  54. Jerkface December 21st, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    Man, lot of pessimistic yankee fans here :)

  55. Jerkface December 21st, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    Someone should ask for a followup to that quote, Chad? Sam?

  56. Jerkface December 21st, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    I don’t think it means that Jorge is playing for his job, because he was already adequate behind the plate and at the plate in 2010. Why would they suddenly put pressure on him or make a statement like that?

  57. blake December 21st, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    Jerkface,

    You might be right, that may have been how he intended it but when I initially read that quote that’s what I thought he meant and it kinda rubbed me the wrong way which is why I remembered it.

  58. blake December 21st, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    “Why would they suddenly put pressure on him or make a statement like that?”

    good question, I have no idea. Tact has never seemed to be one of Cashman’s stronger attributes. I don’t see how he could play his way into more catching time by DHing either though.

  59. Bronx Jeers December 21st, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    “You need a strong farm system that prevents you from being desperate in the free-agent market,” Cashman said. “You don’t want to be desperate in the free-agent market, because you’ll get slaughtered.”

    “We’re doing a better job of managing our payroll and managing our decision-making as we enter the free-agent market,”

    ————————————————————————————————————————————————-

    :lol:

    I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and just assume these are jokes.

    He is joking right?

  60. randy l. December 21st, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    i don’t see how this guy doesn’t get a chance to compete for the fifth spot in the rotation.

    http://www.baseball-reference......;year=2009

  61. tyanksfan36 December 21st, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Blake

    I felt the same way about the Jorge quote. It bothered me too and I would really like cashman to clarify. Jorge has always been a good hitter, this past year he had issues that I think affected his hitting but I don’t think he will be an issue as the DH.

  62. blake December 21st, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    Randy,

    why not, if nothing else it would have motivated him this winter if he thought a spot in the rotation were possible. Let him compete like he did last year, if he loses then fine….hopefully he would be in better shape and in a better position to help as a reliever because of it.

  63. Betsy December 21st, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    Blake, he should be motivated anyway. This kid is being paid a lot of $$$ to be a professional; if he can’t be motivated to keep himself in good shape and to do the job that the Yankees are asking him, then he doesn’t belong on the team. No more excuses for Joba.

  64. blake December 21st, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    Betsy,

    I agree but the reality is that some guys aren’t….my question is what would it hurt?

  65. brianlopez22 December 21st, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    You know what is a joke?

    That all the “fans” on these posts refuse to understand how baseball is supposed to work.

    Cashman has royally screwed up but he really only had 1 move this winter, that was Cliff Lee.

    The organization finally has great pitching and catching prospects. Consequently, those prospects are always in higher demand.

    However, until King Felix or Josh Johnson are available, we should see what we have. The Free Agent market is thin, at best. And the trade market is horrible.

    I say, Cashman needs to do whatever he can to get Pettitte back and let Nova prove how good he is.
    A starting 5 of CC, Hughes, Pettitte, AJ, and Nova is good enough.

  66. raymagnetic December 21st, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    Who said Joba isn’t motivated.

    CC is fat, therefore he is not motivated.

    Fat = having no motivation.

  67. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    The season that Cashman didn’t re-sign Kerry Wood.

    “•The Yankees were never close on a deal with Kerry Wood, who wound up taking much less than everyone expected to go back to the Chicago Cubs. Here’s Cashman one more time:
    “We never got close because, in talking to his agents, it was going to cost $5.5 million a year or more on a multi-year basis. We weren’t interested in that level. But they said that it was what it was going to take. When we saw he signed with the Cubs at $1.5 million, I called right away and said, ‘Hey, what’s going on here?’ They said the Yankee price was the Yankee price; no different than the Red Sox price or the White Sox price. The bottom line is, he moved his family from Phoenix to Chicago and he’s going to be a Cub for life now. This had a lot to do with non-baseball related stuff, too. I can understand that.”

    http://bombersbeat.mlblogs.com.....um=twitter

  68. Betsy December 21st, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    Blake, I was opposed because I was assuming that Lee would be signed and even if Andy didn’t come back, I didn’t want a kid in the rotation (whether Joba or Nova). I don’t think a team needs to resort to trickery to motivate a player… they were not going to make him a starter and no sense pretending they were going to (now I think they gave up on him too soon, but since that’s the decision they made………). If Joba has no professional pride, that’s on him; he’s hurting the team short term, but himself in the long term.

  69. blake December 21st, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    “Who said Joba isn’t motivated.”

    I have no idea how motivated he is or isn’t but human nature says that if Cashman told him to prepare to fight for the 5th spot in the rotation this spring then he’d have more motivation than if he told him to prepare to be a middle reliever….maybe in an ideal world it wouldn’t matter but in reality it does.

  70. raymagnetic December 21st, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    Prince Fielder – not motivated.

    Boomer Wells – not motivated.

    Bartolo Colon – No motivation there either.

    It’s stupid to say Joba isn’t motivated simply cause he’s overweight. I’ve never heard one story saying Joba lacks motivation. Surely he would have been long gone if he appeared to be a slacker.

  71. blake December 21st, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    Betsy,

    what do you think they should do about the 4th an 5th spots in the rotation?

  72. Betsy December 21st, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    Blake, they have no choice but to try and sign some mediocre veteran………..I still can’t believe we’re in this position after signing CC and AJ two years ago. Just a few years ago, we were so sure that Joba and Phil would be anchoring our rotation. Well, that didn’t work out………….gotta keep expectations for Betances and Banuelos under control. That’s my New Years resolution,lol

  73. blake December 21st, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    Betsy,

    personally I’d rather see them try the kids out than sign some bargain bin fillers for the rotation if real upgrades can’t be acquired. The kids may have a chance to actually get better and they cost virtually nothing. Really hoping Andy comes back because 1 spot is a lot easier to fill than 2.

  74. Betsy December 21st, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    Blake, but who are we talking about ? Nova? Who else? Surely not Betances and/or Banuelos.

    The pen is going to be unbelievably overworked this year.

    I’d be shocked if Andy came back at this point………..I guess Cash is just leaving him to his own devices at this point, but if I were him, I’d be getting on my hands and knees and begging him to return, lol. Obviously I’m being facetious – Andy shouldn’t return unless he can fully commit. If he’s this torn, then he should retire……

  75. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    re: Danny Haren

    How in the world can you ever see yourself stuck with Danny Haren when you look ahead just 3 freakin’ months to the free agent class and see NOTHING after Cliff Lee?

    Worst case scenario, even if Haren completely BOMBED in NY, they could’ve recouped most of Joba + Nova + whatever else.

    Not only did they assume they were signing Cliff Lee, they were convinced Andy was coming back. It was before Andy got injured and he was putting up CY numbers.

    So yes, in effect, they passed on Haren because of Cliff Lee.

    Solid, fairly priced insurance and they passed because they prospect hugged a bunch of scrubs.

    Idiots.

  76. blake December 21st, 2010 at 8:53 pm

    Betsy,

    no not Betances or Banuelos…they need more innings. Nova, Noesi, Phelps, Brackman etc all have enough innings to warrant a 5th starter role. Nova would probably have no innings limit…Noesi, Phelps, and Brackman could all throw 180 or so.

  77. Pat M. December 21st, 2010 at 8:54 pm

    Betsy…..Wang was hurt and wasn’t rehabbed correctly and Joba went into a major tailspin…..Joba had 3 outstanding starts after the break in 09 and then was just a total mess down the stretch…..

  78. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    Plus Haren was moved right before Lee and they were convinced they could trade for Lee in-season by dangling Montero to Seattle.

    They couldn’t fit both Haren and Lee in the rotation last year so they preferred Lee over Haren and Montero.

    An idiotic move.

  79. blake December 21st, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    Joba’s ERA didn’t climb above 4 for good until August of 2009. He was pretty good at times all season until the Joba Rules kicked in…..I don’t know if he could ever start again but I just don’t see the harm in putting him in the mix…..especially if you have 2 spots to fill.

  80. LGY December 21st, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    “Worst case scenario, even if Haren completely BOMBED in NY, they could’ve recouped most of Joba + Nova + whatever else.”

    ——————–

    How??

    Did Josh Byrnes forget to say No Take Backs! so the rule wasn’t in effect?

  81. Carl December 21st, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    # LGY December 21st, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    “Worst case scenario, even if Haren completely BOMBED in NY, they could’ve recouped most of Joba + Nova + whatever else.”

    ——————–

    How??

    Did Josh Byrnes forget to say No Take Backs! so the rule wasn’t in effect?

    LOL

  82. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    LGY,

    It’s simple, after Lee signs, you send Haren to a pitching starved team with ZERO choices on the free agent market. You take B-prospects and call it a day.

    Passing on Haren had something to do with thinking they could trade Montero for Lee in-season.

    They couldn’t pay both last year and fit both into the rotation at the time.

    So basically they were so far up Cliff Lee’s backside that they chose Lee over Haren + Montero with the chance to sign Lee at the end of the season and trade Haren within a pitching thin market in the worst case scenario.

    You are the biggest excuse maker for this front office.

  83. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    And it’s because YOU TOO were so far up Lee’s cavern I’m surprised you didn’t suffocate to death.

  84. LGY December 21st, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    Bret,

    You need to check your calendar.

    Lee was traded on July 10th. Dan Haren was traded 2 weeks later on July 25th.

  85. blake December 21st, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    I think Haren was actually traded after Lee was.

  86. blake December 21st, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    The Yankees only got involved with Haren after they lost out on Lee to Texas.

  87. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    Then they’re even more idiotic.

  88. Hopdevil December 21st, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    LGY December 21st, 2010 at 9:03 pm
    Bret,

    You need to check your calendar.

    Lee was traded on July 10th. Dan Haren was traded 2 weeks later on July 25th.

    ——————————

    Some people don’t let facts get in the way of their beliefs.

  89. Pat M. December 21st, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    blake….Joba was outstanding after the break and after the Yanks were swept by The Angels…I had the misfortune to be at all 3 games…….His era dropped over a .50 run and I as as many believed that he had learned a valuable lesson out in Anaheim….But in a game at The Stadium he was so bad he was booed off the mound and he just went south….If you take away those 3 starts after the break his era was over 5.00….He failed to make it thru 5 innings in more than half his starts in 09…..The Joba rules had nothing to do with his misery as a starter…..I think he should get a shot at starting, although at this point I can’t imagine that endeavor ending very positively at this point…..His delivery is flawed fro pitch to pitch…..It’s a shame because he & Hughes could have evolved into a dynamite 1-2 punch throughout this decade……Then factor in the Wang debacle and now you have what we have , a mess

  90. Carl December 21st, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    Pat M.

    I went to the first 2 games.

    Watching Andy and Joba pitched made me sad :(

    A-Rod hit 3 bombs though. Hinske went deep twice also :)

  91. blake December 21st, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    Pat M,

    yea I don’t know if the Joba rules were a factor or not….if they were then it wasn’t or shouldn’t have been a big one. Again, I don’t know if he could do it or not, all I’m saying is that if they have 2 slots to fill and are holding a competition then why not put him in there as they did last year….I don’t see what harm it would do. You’re right though, the inconsistencies in his delivery are at the root of his problems no matter what his role is…..it is a shame.

  92. BoJo December 21st, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    Joba was always fat, and it wasn’t until college that he lost enough weight to just be plump. His weight has IMO nothing to do with whether he starts or relieves.

    I suspect that Cashman and Yankees have Joba in bullpen because they are afraid that his shoulder will not withstand the pressures of starting. There has been concern since college that his delivery put too much pressure on his shoulder, and that he was a walking DL case waiting to happen. You can Google scouting reports on him to see that.

    I don’t buy any of the motivational stuff, as the Yankees said they were happy with his work ethic. If they weren’t, they would have used press leaks to let him know to work harder.

  93. joeman December 21st, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    shout out to UCONN girls BB……89 in a row, thats some program they have there

  94. Bronx Jeers December 21st, 2010 at 9:24 pm

    …seemed to me, like he pitched his life, like a candle in the wind
    Never knowing, who to throw to, when the “rules” came in…

  95. Pat M. December 21st, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    Bojo…….Truth is I don’t think we know much other than tid-bits that giys in the game mention over causal conversations…….Although as recent as 2 years ago, visions of Joba and Hughes throwing every 5 days was a very attractive concept for years to come…..

  96. BoJo December 21st, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    Pat–Mentioning Hughes in the same sentance as Joba reminds me that Hughes had a lot of games last year where his pitch count was high, or he blew up in 5th inning…yet he didn’t get blasted nearly as much as Joba did.

  97. blake December 21st, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    Pat M,

    thoughts on Brackman possibly getting a shot at the rotation?

  98. JK December 21st, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    1. Nova…. 100+ AAA innings, ready for chance @ rotation shot
    2. Phelps…. 35-40 innings away
    3. Mitchell…. 60-70 innings away
    4. Noesi…. Same as Mitchell
    5. Brackman… 80-100 innings away
    6. Warren…. same as Brackman

    Betances, Banuelos & Stoneburner should be Sep callups at best.

  99. BoJo December 21st, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    Maybe someone could suggest to JOba that he takes up ballet so that he could gain more control over his delivery. Football players have used ballet to get better, and Joba could certainly benefit from trying ballet and perhaps yoga if nothing else works.

    I don’t personally believe it will help but it would crack me up to see pictures of him in a tutu.

  100. blake December 21st, 2010 at 9:33 pm

    Nova threw 187 innings last year. He would likely be able to throw 200+ innings in 2011. Phelps, Noesi, and Brackman could all potentially throw enough innings to be a 4th or 5th starter next year. (around 180 or so)

  101. Jerkface December 21st, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    So yes, in effect, they passed on Haren because of Cliff Lee.

    They passed on Haren because of his HR rate and the amount of hits he was giving up in Arizona. For the price, and the contract, they did not want to give up that much. Then the D-backs owner stepped in and basically pushed the deal with Saunders through because he was a ‘proven pitcher’ despite how much he sucked.

  102. blake December 21st, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    Phelps has thrown 150+ innings twice and threw 158 in 2010.
    Noesi threw 160 last year.
    Brackman threw 140 last year but is older an a college guy.

  103. J. Alfred Prufrock December 21st, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    raymagnetic December 21st, 2010 at 8:38 pm
    Prince Fielder – not motivated.

    Boomer Wells – not motivated.

    Bartolo Colon – No motivation there either.

    It’s stupid to say Joba isn’t motivated simply cause he’s overweight. I’ve never heard one story saying Joba lacks motivation. Surely he would have been long gone if he appeared to be a slacker.

    ///agree raymagnetic.it’s just gossip.you don’t even hear any “unnamed source” shots at Joba’s workout habits.he also seems to be glued to Andy’s side.Would Andy hang out with such a lowlife who’s allergic to work,considering AP’s pedigree?unlikely.that can’t be the story,but here’s one: how about Eiland sucks?

  104. Pat M. December 21st, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    Bojo….You’re begging a little on that comparison….Hughes won 18 games, was voted to the All-Star squad by his peers and had maybe 3-4 bad outings for the season…….Not a compelling argument for Joba’s case….Trust me, Hughes was just about ridden out of town by the LoHuders back in early 09 after his meltdown in Baltimore…….There was maybe 5 people here who stayed on the Hughes bandwagon…..Oddly enough Betsy was a staunch supporter back then….

  105. Pat M. December 21st, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    blake….Brackman I think will go to the pen first and then maybe get a look as a possible starter….I think he’s being hope to be a possible replacement when Mariano hangs them up…….

  106. blake December 21st, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    I think they passed on Haren because at the time the rotation wasn’t that much of an issue. The main concern I believe was Hughes’s innings limit. I think they had their site on Lee and didn’t want to give up Robertson/Brackman and Nova for to fix a problem that wasn’t that big of a problem. Then things went downhill from there as Pettite got hurt and AJ started pitching horribly.

  107. Jerkface December 21st, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    1. Nova…. 100+ AAA innings, ready for chance @ rotation shot
    2. Phelps…. 35-40 innings away
    3. Mitchell…. 60-70 innings away
    4. Noesi…. Same as Mitchell
    5. Brackman… 80-100 innings away
    6. Warren…. same as Brackman

    Nova pitched 187 innings, so he should be off a leash. His problem will be adjusting to hitters.
    Phelps had 158 innings last year, so he should be good enough to pitch a full season as a #5 starter.
    Mitchell had 150 innings last year, so same as Phelps.
    Noesi had 160 innings so he’s in even better shape. He will need adjustment time in AAA though.
    Brack-attack threw 140 innings, so he could theoretically come up and be a #5 starter and not worry about innings.
    Warren only had 135 innings and ended at AA, so I think he would be a september guy.

    Thats just based off of innings, as for ability I think Nova, Phelps, Mitchell, Brackman, Noesi, Warren should be the order of call ups.

    Brackman and Noesi are on the 40 man though. So they may get call ups sooner because of that.

  108. blake December 21st, 2010 at 9:42 pm

    Pat M,

    that would probably be for the best if he could get some time at Scranton and then get a call-up. We’ll see. Despite the rotation issues it would be fun to see some of these kids get a shot.

  109. Jerkface December 21st, 2010 at 9:42 pm

    I think they passed on Haren because at the time the rotation wasn’t that much of an issue.

    They were in on Haren enough to have reported packages, so I don’t think they got that far and decided ‘oh we don’t want him our rotation is fine’. I think the price got too steep given Haren’s issues at the time. To be stuck with a 3 year deal on a pitcher whose Hr rates might have actually risen at NYS, it proved to be too much.

    Originally it was supposed to be Nova,Zmac, and some more.

  110. BoJo December 21st, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    JAP–

    I agree that Eiland was no major help to Joba…didn’t seem to believe in him

  111. BoJo December 21st, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    Joba in tutu…yeah, I think I’ll be having nightmares tonight.

  112. blake December 21st, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    Jerkface,

    I agree. If they decide to just go with 2 prospects in the rotation (which I kinda doubt) then Nova and Phelps would seem to be the most qualified. If Pettite comes back then you could pencil Nova in that 5 spot and feel pretty good about a rotation with no innings limits.

  113. P December 21st, 2010 at 9:48 pm

    what about the yanks not attempting to grab Aroldis Chapman? Another blown chance perhaps? what does this team need now cheap risks or expensive proven talent and nothing in between??

    I’m annoyed at the current state of this off season!!

  114. blake December 21st, 2010 at 9:48 pm

    Jerkface,

    Not fine but not bad enough to give up who they were asking for apparently. Had that deal been there a month later then I bet the Yankees would have jumped at it. Haren is and has shown that he’s a better pitcher than what he was doing in Arizona. That contract isn’t that bad…..12.75 million for 2 years after the prorated 2010 money.

  115. BoJo December 21st, 2010 at 9:49 pm

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  116. P December 21st, 2010 at 9:51 pm

    new post

  117. Doreen December 21st, 2010 at 9:51 pm

    Pat M -

    Correct me if I’m mistaken, but I believe the 3 stellar starts that Joba had after the ASB led the Yankees to believe a change in his routine was responsible and tried to accommodate that. I believe they were just trying to do the right thing by him.

    But I distinctly remember that year being so totally frustrated by Joba. He’d have a decent outing followed by a clueless one or two. I remember have back and forth with SJ44 about how development isn’t a straight line and false steps are to be expected. We all thought he’d turned a corner after the ASB, but it was short-lived. And I really truly believe the Yankees were not “yanking his chain” with the Joba rules, but trying their best to make things work for him. From having him do extra warming up in the bullpen to hit the ground running in the first inning, to trying to force him to throw a smaller number of pitches per inning by limiting the innings (I firmly believe if he’d kept his pitch count down, each of those games he would have “earned” another inning).

    Anyway, nothing worked. I have heard Joba is a hard worker. But there’s working hard and there’s working hard smart. Same as Gardner last off-season – he practiced bunting, but did he do it right?

  118. Against All Odds December 21st, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    # West Coast Yankee Fan December 21st, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    Joba just did not have what it took to be an effective starting pitcher, in the AL East, with this team. It’s a huge positive that the Yankees realized that fairly quickly, and didn’t waste time trying to fit a round peg in a square hole.

    Just because you move slowly and give a pitcher more time doesn’t mean it’s the right move. The Yankees professional staff was eminently qualified to make the decision on his future, Joba was not a new commodity to them in the spring of 2010.

    I personally believe it was the right move. He was not a good starting pitcher.
    ———————————————————-

    Right now he’s not a good relief pitcher either. So you mean to tell me after his 09 season they determined Joba can’t start?????? Hughes was given the ball in 07 and got hurt. He was a starter out of spring in 08 he pitched poorly and got hurt again. He spends a majority of 09 in the pen and is the unknown favorite to win the fifth starter spot going in 2010. Joba pitched well as a starter in 08, struggled in 09, and then it’s over WTFFFFFFFFFff. It makes no sense what so ever and this Job fiasco is another mark on Cashman’s resume when it comes to pitchers.

  119. Doreen December 21st, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    jerkface -

    I agree with you on the Haren situation.

  120. Jerkface December 21st, 2010 at 9:54 pm

    what about the yanks not attempting to grab Aroldis Chapman?

    They attempted, but he was given a 30 million dollar 6 year deal. If he ends up a reliever that isn’t great. He has very, very good stuff for a lefty, but he is still RAW as hell.

  121. J. Alfred Prufrock December 21st, 2010 at 10:00 pm

    Those 3-4 Inning stints were ridiiculous. Even CC Sabathia opined that it’d be hard for any pitcher to succeed in those circumstances,so the yank ace was less than impressed with the “Joba Rules”for his young teammate.

  122. P December 21st, 2010 at 10:01 pm

    jerkface, that’s scouting failure if u ask me!

  123. J. Alfred Prufrock December 21st, 2010 at 10:03 pm

    Bill Eppeler has been a strong voice in the anti-Joba starter group. Chad ask him his take & why he was deadset against?

  124. J. Alfred Prufrock December 21st, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    Right now he’s not a good relief pitcher either. So you mean to tell me after his 09 season they determined Joba can’t start?????? Hughes was given the ball in 07 and got hurt. He was a starter out of spring in 08 he pitched poorly and got hurt again. He spends a majority of 09 in the pen and is the unknown favorite to win the fifth starter spot going in 2010. Joba pitched well as a starter in 08, struggled in 09, and then it’s over WTFFFFFFFFFff. It makes no sense what so ever and this Job fiasco is another mark on Cashman’s resume when it comes to pitchers.

    ///got to say I’m pleased as punch the Joba Should Be a Starter movement is gaining adherents.What took y’all so long?? (not saying you, for all I know, you always felt there was something funny goin on at River Ave offices).

  125. Against All Odds December 21st, 2010 at 10:25 pm

    Pat M. December 21st, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    The Joba rules had nothing to do with his misery as a starter

    ————————–

    So the schedule of long rest, normal rest, long rest, normal rest, and then the 3-4 inning relief starts had nothing to do with why he struggled? He was fine before they started that routine.

  126. Against All Odds December 21st, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    Doreen December 21st, 2010 at 9:51 pm

    I believe they were just trying to do the right thing by him.

    ———————-

    Their heart was in the right place but their execution was wrong. I’m sorry but when they put him out there in 304 inning relief starts that told me they had no idea what the hell they were doing.

  127. Against All Odds December 21st, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 21st, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    ///got to say I’m pleased as punch the Joba Should Be a Starter movement is gaining adherents.What took y’all so long?? (not saying you, for all I know, you always felt there was something funny goin on at River Ave offices).

    ———————————————-

    Lol. I’m surprised so many ppl still what Joba to start. I’m a member on yesnetwork and there are probably 3-4 ppl still upset about how Joba was handled. Yet when I go on other blogs/boards so many fans are still banging the Joba Should Be a Starter drum. It is pleasing but unfortunately it’s all for not. I mean it’s at the point fans would rather see him traded to another team instead of being a Yankee

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