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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Sabathia talks about chasing Lee, giving back and trimming down

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 22, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Associated Press comes through with a non-Pinstripe Bowl story… CC Sabathia did some charity work today back home in California. For whatever reason, I wasn’t able to be there to speak to the big man, so I’ll let the AP do what it does.

Deep in the story is news that Sabathia has lost 15 pounds and feels good after offseason knee surgery.

Sabathia Cliff Lee BaseballCONCORD, Calif. (AP) — CC Sabathia hoped to be pitching alongside close pal Cliff Lee again next year, reunited in Yankees pinstripes.

Instead, Lee turned down an extra $30 million to return to the Philadelphia Phillies with a five-year deal that guarantees $120 million. Sabathia, having gone through the free agency process himself just two years ago before landing a $161 million, seven-year contract from New York, wasn’t about to beg or bug baseball’s biggest offseason prize.

As a father of four children ages 7 and under, Sabathia fully understands making a decision based on family, what feels right for the future and loyalty. In fact, the left-handed ace — fully recovered from recent right knee surgery — is back home in his native Bay Area for a whirlwind week of goodwill events to help his downtrodden hometown of Vallejo as part of his “CC’s Christmas Caravan.”

“I’m excited for him,” Sabathia said Wednesday, while entertaining some 20 needy teens as they purchased clothes, shoes and athletic gear through his PitCCh In Foundation. “As part of the Yankee family and organization I’m disappointed. As a family friend, I’m happy he’s in the place he wanted to be. You have to do what makes you happy and what’s best for your family. It’s a long time. Five years is a long time, seven years is a long time.”

For years now, Sabathia has been giving back in the very place he grew up, including refurbishing his former Little League field and his projects this week. On Thursday, he and wife, Amber, and his mother, Margie, will visit a Victorian home in Vallejo they have helped make over. It serves as a clean and sober living environment for women recovering from alcohol or drug addiction.

While Sabathia now spends much of his time in New Jersey, he still has a home in nearby Fairfield.

“I grew up here. It’s just a really tight, close-knit community,” Sabathia said. “A lot of people have family roots there, and I’m one of them. I just feel like any chance I get to do anything I can for the kids, I’m there for them.”

He helped 17-year-old Travis Smith-Fox, who is working to finish his GED, pick out a pair of charcoal gray shoes to wear for skateboarding. Each teen had $250 to spend.

After going 21-7 and finishing third in AL Cy Young Award voting, Sabathia had arthroscopic surgery on his right knee in late October to repair a partially torn meniscus, the same procedure he had in 2006 when still pitching alongside Lee in Cleveland.

“I’m feeling good,” Sabathia said. “I wasn’t really worried about the surgery because I had it before. It was just swelling up on me after starts during the year, just achy pain that affected me while I was pitching.”

Sabathia has lost 15 pounds from his 6-foot-7 frame through a tough offseason training program of cardiovascular workouts and weight training. His knee recovered in just less than a month after the procedure, so he is well into his full exercise program and playing light catch.

He hopes to lose an additional 15 pounds before the season starts.

“I’m turning 30 this year, getting a little older,” he said, chuckling. “Hopefully it will take some pressure off my knee and extend my career.”

Sabathia spoke to Lee several times during the free agency process and again after Lee’s decision. The two plan to go fishing during spring training.

“Just knowing what it’s like to go through that, you don’t want somebody calling you all the time,” Sabathia said. “He knew what the Yankees could offer and what New York would bring and that I loved it over there. We’re pretty close. I didn’t want to keep bugging him with it. Everybody was like, ‘Did you make a pitch?’ For what?”

Associated Press photo

 
 

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225 Responses to “Sabathia talks about chasing Lee, giving back and trimming down”

  1. Crawdaddy December 22nd, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    Chad,

    What are doing stealing the link I posted earlier?

  2. Crawdaddy December 22nd, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    Randy and Cashman need to get a room.

  3. 108 stitches December 22nd, 2010 at 6:59 pm

    No reports on Chamberlain doing weight training.

  4. LGY December 22nd, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    The downside of telling Joba to prepare as a starter is that you are jerking him around again and messing with his head.

    If the Yankees view him as a reliever he needs to prepare to be one so he can reach his potential in the bullpen.

    Opinions can differ on his proper role, but if the Yankees don’t think he can start there is no sense messing with him further.

  5. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    hardwired7 December 22nd, 2010 at 6:47 pm
    One thing to like about David Phelps: the kid does not give up HRs.

    155 IP between AA and AAA last season, and he only allowed 6 HRs.

    http://www.thebaseballcube.com…..elps.shtml

    Axisa’s scouting report says he “pounds the bottom of the zone.” I guess the #s back that up.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Phelps is very much a young Mussina type pitcher, as is Warren. It’s up to them to bring it around. I’ve never seen them get rattled on the mound. Unlike Mussina, though, they don’t point fingers at other team mates for mistakes. I’d like to see them get a chance, but, I can see one of the going in a trade…but, not both.

    .

  6. Crawdaddy December 22nd, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    Rich,

    I agree, Cashman and his pitching coaches need to develop this pitching talent we keep hearing about. He had his five years, 2011 will be his sixth season so we need to see some results beyond Hughes.

  7. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    hardwired7 December 22nd, 2010 at 6:47 pm
    One thing to like about David Phelps: the kid does not give up HRs.

    155 IP between AA and AAA last season, and he only allowed 6 HRs.

    http://www.thebaseballcube.com…..elps.shtml

    Axisa’s scouting report says he “pounds the bottom of the zone.” I guess the #s back that up.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Phelps is very much a young Mussina type pitcher, as is Warren. It’s up to them to bring it around. I’ve never seen them get rattled on the mound. Unlike Mussina, though, they don’t point fingers at other team mates for mistakes. I’d like to see them get a chance, but, I can see one of the going in a trade…but, not both.

    Rich in NJ December 22nd, 2010 at 6:59 pm
    “Joba always had major question marks whether he could succeed as a starter from before he was drafted. Those and other question marks are why he even fell to the Yankees.”

    LGY

    But he succeeded at a very high level despite the questions, and we have been told that the shoulder injury was simply tendinitis.

    Even with diminished velo, he was more effective as a starter in 2009 than Javy or AJ. Yet he still doesn’t get another shot.

    Something doesn’t add up.

    GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 6:59 pm
    OH!!! God!!! Somebody hold Erica down. ken Davidoff is saying that the yanks may be in talks about bringing back Damon. This place will be wall to wall full of smiles and giggles.

  8. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    Sorry about that cut and paste screw-up

  9. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    OH!!! God!!! Somebody hold Erica down. ken Davidoff is saying that the yanks may be in talks about bringing back Damon. This place will be wall to wall full of smiles and giggles.

  10. LGY December 22nd, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    My own opinions on Joba go back and forth between whether he should be starting but I think the Yankees need to give this kid a clear role.

    This up in the air stuff isn’t helping.

  11. LGY December 22nd, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    *was not* helpinh

  12. tyanksfan36 December 22nd, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    GB7

    That’s the first thing I thought of when I saw that. Erica would probably go crazy if he came back.

  13. Doreen December 22nd, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    LGY -

    They have given him a clear role – in the bullpen.

    I kind of agree with Randy l regarding his question: what is the downside of Joba preparing as a starter, though. Provided, however, there are no circumstances of which we are not aware. Such as a shoulder issue that is a little worse than they ever reported or any other thing.

    BUT – If Joba wants to start, if I was him, I would make darn sure I made it known that I’d like another chance and then work like heck to get the gig.

    Randy l, I know you said the other day, the only reaosn for the current state of affairs is most likely something we know nothing about. Because it sure would seem the Yankees should be doing all they can to develop this guy, who could be a way out of the their current pitching situation.

  14. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    “The downside of telling Joba to prepare as a starter is that you are jerking him around again and messing with his head.

    If the Yankees view him as a reliever he needs to prepare to be one so he can reach his potential in the bullpen.”

    lgy-

    there is no problem in converting a starter to throwing short relief .

    and if there is, then the yankees screwed up last year in having joba prepare as a starter for the season.

    you’re just making stuff up.

    there is no big deal to converting a pitcher to relieving who is prepared to start.

  15. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    tyanksfan36 December 22nd, 2010 at 7:08 pm
    GB7

    That’s the first thing I thought of when I saw that. Erica would probably go crazy if he came back.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Yeah, that could get scary on here. I’ve never seen anyone do backflips on a blog before.

  16. Doreen December 22nd, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    On the topic of Chad’s post – I think it’s great CC is working on getting into better shape – losing a little bit of weight will certainly take some stress off his knees.

    It’s too bad Cliff Lee liked Philly. Who’da thunk it???

  17. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    I think it would be great if Damon would accept a secondary role and return to the Yanks…he could help them and he’d probably get more AB’s than we think.

    Great news about CC…Also reports out there that Arod is looking to trim down and increase his agility this winter, Jeter is meeting Long early to work on his swing, AJ building a mound in his barn….all good things.

    GB, Phelps impressed me the few times I watched him throw.

  18. Ruby Tuesday December 22nd, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    J*n L*st*r > C.C. Sabathia

  19. Ruby Tuesday December 22nd, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    Heck, base on what we saw last season,

    C. B. > C. C. Sabathia

  20. LGY December 22nd, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    Doreen

    Yeah, I was saying if they now told him to prepare to start the role wouldn’t be clear.

    Randy

    How do you know there is no problem? How do you know there is no problem in particular to Joba?

    This route of telling him to prepare as a starter didn’t work out well last year right?

    Maybe they saw that as a mistake and learned from it.

  21. LGY December 22nd, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    Getting Damon back would be great.

    I prefer Thome but would be very happy with Damon as OF and DH insurance.

  22. Rich in NJ December 22nd, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    “Heck, base on what we saw last season,”

    Which is always a really stupid way to look at things.

  23. Rich in NJ December 22nd, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    “Heck, base on what we saw last season,”

    Which is always a really stupid way to look at things.

  24. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    Based on what we saw last season Josh Beckett and John Lackey = Freddy Garcia and Kevin Millwood.

  25. Doreen December 22nd, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    LGY -

    Sorry about that. It wasn’t clear what you meant (to me, that is). :)

  26. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    blake, he is impressive in that he’s moved up the ladder this fast and nobody seems to have noticed. Warren and Stoneburner are two others moving fast. black, looks good, but, they aren’t really pushing him. Could just be the logjam in the upper rotations.

  27. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    ” I know you said the other day, the only reaosn for the current state of affairs is most likely something we know nothing about. Because it sure would seem the Yankees should be doing all they can to develop this guy, who could be a way out of the their current pitching situation.”

    doreen-

    i’ve been thinking about joba the past few days and the more i think about it, i think that cashman is doing the same thing he did with wang. he gets something in his head and that’s it. he loses objectivity and falls in love with his own opinion.

    behind the scenes, cashman never liked the kind of pitcher wang was and was always encouraging messing with him to get more strikeouts. peter a. and i communicated a lot in emails about this. peter a. knew a lot about the behind the scenes pressure the yankees put on wang to change the way he pitched. i knew it from my friendship with neil allen.

    when cashman gets a bug up his butt, he gets very close-minded. i think he’s now doing this with joba. my criticism is there’s no downside to training as a starter. for cashman to not even let joba do that shows he’s simply closed his mind to joba as anything but being a reliever and the simply throwing in the towel.

    at a time like this with a potential pitching crisis if even one starter goes down, cashman needs to open up his mind and do the smart thing which is to train joba as a starter in spring training.
    if joba doesn’t do well ,there’s no problem. he relieves.

    why not take a chance on creating an option?it makes no sense not to take the chance.

  28. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    Damon would be great injury insurance….he hits lefties pretty well and would be good in the clubhouse.

  29. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    GB,

    It does look like there is a bit of a logjam forming….it will be even more so this time next year unless they move a couple of guys or they establish themselves in the big league rotation. Not exactly a bad problem to have.

  30. MaineYankee December 22nd, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    randy

    I saw a pitcher that regressed as time went on.

    You can blame it on whomever you want.

    I saw a young pitcher that wouldn’t listen to his very experienced catcher.

    Judging by how you come across here I don’t think you would accept that from a rookie pitcher.

    He has the tools but doesn’t seem to trust them. Too much reliance on the slider that he can’t throw for strikes and not enough on his FB.

    I know I just have experience playing in the cow pastures in Maine but that’s my observation.

  31. MaineYankee December 22nd, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    randy

    he gets something in his head and that’s it. he loses objectivity and falls in love with his own opinion.
    ——————————————————————————————-

    I think that sounds like a poster here. :lol:

  32. MTU December 22nd, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Blake-

    I talked about the logjam for quite some time.

    It was really kind of obvious.

    They need to use these guys or they are gonna start losing some of them.

    Maybe this is the year they find out what they’ve really got.

  33. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    lgy-

    if you can find something where joba says he wannest to relieve rather than start then i’d agree with you, but my impression is that he prefers starting.

    i know papelbon tried starting and decided he’d rather relieve. i don’t think that’s joba’s position.

    i know pa

  34. LGY December 22nd, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    Doreen

    No problem. I’m on my phone and it is not very correction friendly when I don’t like the way something is worded :)

  35. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    blake December 22nd, 2010 at 7:25 pm
    GB,

    It does look like there is a bit of a logjam forming….it will be even more so this time next year unless they move a couple of guys or they establish themselves in the big league rotation. Not exactly a bad problem to have.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    That logjam is why I think the yanks bring in two cheap veteran pitchers this year and when the kids are ready, there’s not much invested in moving the vets out if the aren’t doing the job. Nova will get a shot first. Maybe is was the innings jump he had that caused him to run out of gas in the middle innings in NY. He’s better than that.

  36. DaSaint007 December 22nd, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    It could be a really good Holliday season for Erica if she finds Damon under her tree.

  37. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    MTU,

    I think they’ll move some guys when the time is right. Right now teams are still trying to rip the Yanks off most likely because they know that they need starters.

  38. MaineYankee December 22nd, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    randy

    Papelbon had a shoulder issue that they were afraid wouldn’t hold up to starting.

    I’m not sure many teams are going to let a young player determine what role they play on the team.

  39. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    ‘I think that sounds like a poster here. ”

    maine yankee-

    hey, quit picking on gb7.

    he’s not here to defend himself.

    i think he’s looking up vacation plans for a trip to volorado.

  40. Rich in NJ December 22nd, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    MaineYankee

    Rich

    I may be wrong but I suspect Cashman would make that decision along with ownership.
    __

    I would that ownership would play no role in purely baseball decisions. They have zero expertise and really nothing useful to add.

  41. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    “I know I just have experience playing in the cow pastures in Maine but that’s my observation.”

    maine yankee-

    that’s how a lot of good country ball players learned to play the game. nothing wrong with that.

  42. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    GB,

    It just depends for me. If Andy comes back (and I’m still optimistic that he will) then I’m fine with Nova et al competing for that final spot. If Andy does retire then I think Cashman will make a move for a starter….I don’t know who but I think he’ll move for somebody that can adequately fill Pettite’s spot. The rest of the kids can provide depth and be ready if someone goes down. It would really be nice if Betances and Banuelos could stay healthy and have good seasons….get up close to 150 innings or so and make themselves options for 2012.

  43. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    It’s on Joba that he hasn’t developed; although I think the Yankees gave up on him too soon, he’s stubborn to say the least a clearly not an easy pitcher to deal with. Dealing IPK was a good move IMO. He had no real future in this organization – his ceiling, IMO, is as a #4/5 pitcher in the AL East. I trade that every time for a player like Granderson.

    I am down on Cash for his awful off-season, his non-trade of Haren and some of his recent quotes, but I’m not going to call for his head.

  44. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 7:37 pm

    SI_JonHeyman

    1. report by @KenDavidoff is correct. #yankees have talked about bringing johnny damon back. jd could be good for aj.

  45. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 7:37 pm

    My take on Joba is that I’m tired of talking about Joba.

  46. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 7:38 pm

    I don’t even get why the Yankees need to be motivating Joba. This young man needs to get off his big butt and show some professional pride. It’s not up to the Yankees to continue dangling a carrot in front of him.

  47. Doreen December 22nd, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    Way back when they asked Joba what he preferred and Joba wanted to start.

    Randy l -

    To be a fly on the wall.

    Without that, we’re all only guessing.

    I always wanted to Joba to be a starter, but as I posted last night, without all the information and without any power to change anything, it’s easier to accept and move on than constantly get worked up over things. Joba had a lot of issues and difficulties and some bad luck, too. If Wang doesn’t get hurt, Joba gets to do his thing in 2008 without any pressure and who knows?

    But the situation being what it is today, with really nothing out there that would cost too much in prospects that have taken a lot of time to “collect,” what does it really cost them to see what they might have in Joba.

    With Wang it may have been a bug up his you-know-what; but with Joba, it would have been a feather in Cash’s cap to have Joba in that rotation. I do thing something’s up that we’ll never really know.

    But, again, if Joba himself is unhappy with the situation, he can try to be proactive, can’t he? Maybe he’s okay with all this.

  48. MaineYankee December 22nd, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    Rich

    I don’t agree. Owners get involved in baseball decisions all the time.

    In all pro sports there are owners that are at times too involved in the decisions.

  49. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    Rich, they ARE trying to develop pitching, but what do you want them to do? Rush Banuelos and Betances?

  50. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    Damon had a bad year last year so no thanks

  51. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    “Damon had a bad year last year so no thanks”

    The Yanks wouldn’t be bringing him back as a starter…he’d be a great complimentary piece if he’d accept that role. He’d be worth what they paid him in the clubhouse and as a bench bat alone.

  52. Rich in NJ December 22nd, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    MaineYankee

    Maybe they do, but why? They hire experts for a reason. Let them do their job.

  53. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    Damned. Looks like Randy has escaped from “The Home” in Volorado. Just make sure he’s approached with caution. Those “New England” tuxedos with the straps scare him.

  54. Rich in NJ December 22nd, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    Betsy

    Quote whatever you think I said that would give you that impression.

  55. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 7:45 pm

    i think that as time goes by, if cashman doesn’t get either pettitte signed or another quality starter, more and more people are going to start wondering about joba starting.

    i think you’re going to see people who are usually on opposite sides of baseball issues agreeing that joba should at least get the opportunity to start .

    it seems like jerkface and rich in nj are not opposed to letting joba compete for a starting position. i’m obviously not. it’ll be interesting to hear what cb and sj44 have to say about it.

    i think the topic of joba as a starter is going to heat up unless cashman gets a good starter pretty soon.

  56. MaineYankee December 22nd, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    Rich

    Because it’s their money.

    For some it’s ego(Cuban)

  57. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    Rich, you didn’t………but I was just responding to your post in a previous thread where you said it was time for the Yankees to develop pitching. They are trying to do that………….though admittedly I’m not sure they know what they are doing, lol

  58. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 7:48 pm

    randy,

    I’m not either…I don’t see the harm in it. Unless he refines his delivery and gets more consistent with his mechanics then I don’t know how successful he’d be but transitioning back to the pen is easy enough.

  59. Yogi Mantle December 22nd, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    Betsy, practically the whole league had a bad year last season with hitting. The Yankees had quite a bit higher swing and miss on third strike last season than the year before. This is comparing the players to themselves.

    They didn’t call last season the “year of the pitcher” for nothing.

    I don’t think Damon would cost all that much given last season and he is still without a home.

    The bigger problem is where to play him. DH is filled, supposedly, by Jorge for the large part, and the rotation of players “resting”. His fielding isn’t what it used to be, and his arm was never all that good, so spot out field work or off the bench would be expected.

  60. MaineYankee December 22nd, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    randy

    It makes no difference what any of us here think about Joba.

    If the majority think he should start doesn’t mean they are right.

  61. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    “Escape from Volorado” sounds like a on old saturday morning western.

  62. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    I do think either Pettite will be in the rotation or Cashman will make a trade for a quality guy before ST starts. I can see them have a competition for the 5th spot but not with 2 spots…….

  63. Pat M. December 22nd, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    Tin Cup makes a strong case for Joba working out with the starters come Valentine’s Day…….There’s a glut of relievers still on the market and that’s where Cashman should be shopping if he has plans to go with Nova & Phelps / ?……The off season is more than 1/2 over however there’s still time for Joba to hook up with a trainer and improve his conditioning…..I see guys working out at my local 24 hour fitness center, the same facility where Aaron Boone played hoops that eventful evening…….Betsy, Ian Kennedy having a 10 year career as a 4 / 5 starter will earn him at least 75 million dollars…..Isn’t Cashman looking for a 4/5 guy right now……He’s gone because Arizona demanded him in the 3 team trade

  64. Yogi Mantle December 22nd, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    Randy, seeing all your posts giving lamentations about Joba, makes me wonder if you have written to the Yankees FO about your views. Seems to me you have some valid points, though we don’t know if there are health concerns (like the Saux have about Pimplebutt) so the reduced load on his arm is better suited for the pen.

  65. Rich in NJ December 22nd, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    MaineYankee

    But that should make them want to see it spent right.

  66. LGY December 22nd, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    Betsy

    You should go back and read this board at the time of the Haren trade before blasting Cashman everyday for not making it.

  67. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    Yogi, yep – I don’t really see a place for Damon…………

    Pat M, I’m sure that’s true about IPK………but we have Granderson and since I love Curtis, I’m not bemoaning the trade.

  68. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 7:55 pm

    Damon would get more PT than it seems. DH some, LF some, pinch hit, injury insurance.

  69. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 7:55 pm

    LGY, no idea of what your point is… I have an idea. You stop repeating yourself and I’ll stop repeating mine. You’re annoyed that I’m upset with Cash? Too bad.

  70. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    “Unless he refines his delivery and gets more consistent with his mechanics then I don’t know how successful he’d be but transitioning back to the pen is easy enough.”

    blake-

    a benefit of training as a starter is that a pitcher works on all of his pitches.

    i don’t see the problem of joba’s velocity drop as much of a problem as a starter because he has more pitches he can use for deception. short relievers tend to throw two pitches as time goes on.

    where joba can throw four pitches, preparing to start allows him to work on all four . i just think it makes him a more complete pitcher and the yankees really are in a jam if cashman doesn’t pull a rabbit out of his hat.

  71. Rich in NJ December 22nd, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    Betsy

    My point is that you can’t develop in MLB, except with rare exception, without surmounting a learning curve that has some degree of slope.

    The Yankees need to start allowing more players to do that. No more sink or swim in a month stuff.

    Give Nova, or Brackman, or whomever a prolonged chance to acclimate themselves. AJ and Vazquez stunk, why can’t prospects? At least there’s a chance at later success.

    Another good place to start would be Montero. There is no reason why he can’t get 60 starts at C this season.

  72. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    Does anybody else think that Randy reminds them of the crazy old grandfather that the family locks in the garage when company comes?

  73. MaineYankee December 22nd, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    randy

    I’m gonna go watch the Celtics and leave you alone for now.

    I’ll be lurking to bug you again later.

    Pat M

    Kobe had a rough night last night.

    I’m hoping the Lakers win Sat.

    Saying that is as hard as wanting the RS to win.

  74. MTU December 22nd, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    Randy-

    Joba knew he was going to have to compete for a starting job last season and instead of coming into camp ripped and ready to go he
    wasn’t ready. Even with that hanging over his head.

    What makes you think this year is any different ?

    If Joba was really serious about wanting to reclaim former glory he would have gone to a place like API as Hughes did.

    I’m not sure Joba is ever going to be committed to total fitness, and IMO that’s what he needs if he wants to reach his potential.

    That part is on him.

  75. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    “Randy, seeing all your posts giving lamentations about Joba, makes me wonder if you have written to the Yankees FO about your views”

    yogi mantle-

    cashman had a poster of me made for security guards that says “shoot on sight”.

    i don’t think a letter would make it through that kind of security :)

  76. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    Rich, I agree……….and Andy returning would make it easier to work Nova into the rotation. That said, I still have severe ? even if Andy returns, so it’s hard to just except poor performances from a kid. The Yankees are trying to win, so they can’t keep sending out kids who don’t perform. That said, Phil struggled for the 2nd half and the Yankees sent him out there………..who’s to say they wouldn’t do it for someone else?

  77. Doreen December 22nd, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    Rich in NJ -

    As long as the Yankees have pressure to get to the playoffs every single season, the pressure on any new pitcher is going to be off the charts.

    I think, actually, the Yankees themselves had way more patience with Hughes and Kennedy in 2008 than the fans did. The wind up was both pitchers were pitching hurt and not saying anything. AND the offense that was supposed to their support system, allowing them that leeway to fail, was abysmal that April. Ugh.

  78. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    Oops, I meant it’s hard to justify poor performances from a kid. Veterans with will always get the benefit of the doubt……..

  79. ac1 December 22nd, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    SI_JonHeyman report by @KenDavidoff is correct. #yankees have talked about bringing johnny damon back. jd could be good for aj.
    __

    I think he would be a good pick up for an extra fielder, left field, and late inning hitter for gardner.

  80. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    When was IPK hurt in 2008?

  81. ac1 December 22nd, 2010 at 8:05 pm

    IPK missed 3 months in 2008.

  82. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 8:05 pm

    Randy,

    fair points. However, Joba’s biggest problem at the moment (despite his role) is his inability to repeat his delivery. CB has talked about this but that problem can compound as a starter. Rothschild might can help him…who knows. I don’t see the harm in throwing him in the mix as you say……the talent is still there, its just getting it out. We saw last year when he was in tune with his delivery that that 98 and nasty slider can still be there….its just getting it there more often.

  83. Rich in NJ December 22nd, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    Doreen

    Pressure is fine, as long as it’s accompanied by the patience of the GM and manager and it is communicated to the kid, and followed up by action.

    Fans represent the LCD. They can’t be allowed to have an impact on decisions which have to be made for the greater good.

  84. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    Another factor when considering Damon is that he’d be insurance if Gardner’s wrist isn’t 100% early in the season. They say it will be but who knows.

  85. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    Oh that’s right, the aneurysm…….I forgot. He as awful before that, though……Phil at least at the excuse of being hurt.

  86. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    “What makes you think this year is any different ?”

    mtu-

    you know, if joba does show up out of shape, he really has no choice but to run his butt off if the manger tells him to each day. it’s pretty hard as a player to say no to direct order from girardi.

    i’d say if he comes in out of shape, make him pay for it each day.
    tough love.

  87. Doreen December 22nd, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    IPK Strained his right lat muscle in 2008.

  88. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    I admit that it would be nice to have Damon back personality wise. He’s a great guy and he loved being a Yankee……..

  89. tyanksfan36 December 22nd, 2010 at 8:09 pm

    etsy says:

    December 22, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    Rich, I agree……….and Andy returning would make it easier to work Nova into the rotation. That said, I still have severe ? even if Andy returns, so it’s hard to just except poor performances from a kid. The Yankees are trying to win, so they can’t keep sending out kids who don’t perform. That said, Phil struggled for the 2nd half and the Yankees sent him out there………..who’s to say they wouldn’t do it for someone else?

    —-

    Yes, they sent Phil out there in the second half when he wasn’t doing well but they kinda had no choice. They had a volatile AJ to worry about and constantly moving vazquez to and from the Pen. The only two they could realistically rely on was CC and Phil. Do I think they will keep Nova in the rotation if he performs poorly? I don’t think so, they might call up someone else, brackman or noesi to spot start. Do you think they might do that if Nova isn’t cutting it? I’m not trying to start anything with you, just asking a serious question.

  90. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    Doreen, I don’t even remember that – thanks. Either way, there was bad luck involved. Phil could reasonably have expected to improve on 2007 (though he should not have been the #3 starter as I think he was slotted that year) and IPK, though he only had 3 September starts in 2007, could reasonably have expected to be a decent #5.

  91. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 8:06 pm
    Oh that’s right, the aneurysm…….I forgot. He as awful before that, though……Phil at least at the excuse of being hurt.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    That aneurysm didn’t just blow out. Much like Whitey Ford in ’65 and Cone in ’96, it started as a weakness and poor circulation.

  92. Doreen December 22nd, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    Rich in NJ -

    For sure the fans are the LCD, and have no power really to affect change.

    The Yankees patience is in direct proportion to their spot in the standings.

  93. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    TY, yes, that’s true – they really had no choice with Phil last year. They might not have a choice this year, though………. the rotation is just so up in the air.

  94. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    “I’m gonna go watch the Celtics and leave you alone for now.”

    maine yankee-

    you have to be a celtic fan.

    i was, but when machale, bird, and parish retired i lost interest and never followed them again.

  95. MTU December 22nd, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    Randy-

    Bootcamp, huh ?

    I’m just surprised that Joba wouldn’t want to do it on his own is all.

    I know if someone told me that if I needed to do something reasonable to keep my job or to advance into something I wanted I certainly wouldn’t need to be forced.

    Where’s his work ethic ? His will to succeed ?

  96. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    GB, yes I remember IPK feeling numbness in his fingers, but he’d been bad before that. Either way, everything just went wrong. I still rue (if I think about it) Phil losing 2 years…….

    I just don’t get this whole thing with Joba. I don’t love him – I think he’s a stubborn pain in the butt – but he’s young and talented. Cash’s incredible vehemence, based on 1 year that was not great, but hardly terrible, that he is absolutely not more than a reliever is simply hard to believe.

  97. Erica in NY December 22nd, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 7:02 pm
    OH!!! God!!! Somebody hold Erica down. ken Davidoff is saying that the yanks may be in talks about bringing back Damon. This place will be wall to wall full of smiles and giggles.

    ***************

    :-)

  98. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    How was Kennedy bad before that. He came up in 2007 and was outstanding.

  99. Doreen December 22nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    Based on Hughes/Joba/IPK pitching performances in 2007, I thought it was reasonable to slot them in.

    It couldn’t have gone more poorly. All around. Nothing went right. Both got injured, their safety net was not existent (run production) and they were losing ground by the day in the standings.

    If the weren’t hurt, who knows how long the Yankees would have stuck with them, though.

    No way to know. No way to turn back time. Crying over spilt milk is counterproductive. I do think the Yankees would rather than go with 2 rookies in the rotation after that experience, though. there are too many variables that can’t be controlled.

  100. Doreen December 22nd, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    GB7 =

    IPK was so good in 2007 that my husband was sure he’d be the “sleeper” of the 3 and go on to be better than Hughes and Joba.

  101. ac1 December 22nd, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    Damon can still hit as long as he knows he is the 4th OF.

  102. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    “I’m just surprised that Joba wouldn’t want to do it on his own is all.”

    all players are not self motivated .

    that’s why they have coaches for most players.

    yes, i’d do bootcamp on joba.

    i’d also take him aside and tell him he could be a very special pitcher and that the yankees will do everything they can to help him reach that potential.

    then hit him with the tough love. if he wanted to go out some night, he’d be paying the price the next day :)

  103. starlacarla December 22nd, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    I love reading about all the ways CC gives back!

  104. ac1 December 22nd, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    Damon, Laird, Hairston, Nunez and Montero/Cervelli/Romine

    Decent bench.

  105. Pat M. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    Doreen….You’re right about Ian suffering from a strained Lat muscle that actually started up in late March……As a result of favoring that condition it altered his throwing and caused issues in his right shoulder which was said to be bursitis and he was gone until late July but just dominated AAA that season and then the postseason…..Then of course the aneurysm…..It’ll be interesting to follow his career becuase he’s going to have a very nice one…….Of the three I always thought he was the most ready to take on the bigs……

  106. MTU December 22nd, 2010 at 8:23 pm

    Randy-

    Maybe that was already tried to no avail ?

  107. ac1 December 22nd, 2010 at 8:23 pm

    I was pulling for Kennedy. Remember when he came in 2 years ago against the Angels with the Bases Loaded? Man i actually gave the Jeter fistpump when he got out of it.

  108. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    In 2008, he was bad in terms of performance……..he got rocked (IPK, that is)

  109. tampayank December 22nd, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    “Sabathia spoke to Lee several times during the free agency process and again after Lee’s decision. The two plan to go fishing during spring training.”

    And that’s why fans shouldn’t get upset over the Lee or other FA decisions. AROD is hanging out in Cabo, Mexico with Clooney, doubt he or or any Yankee felt even a little angry over Lee’s decision.

  110. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    That’s what I recall, anyway……..2008 seems a lifetime ago and what I mostly remember was Phil having a great spring and then struggling towards the end. He probably was pitching with the rib issue even then……….

  111. Pat M. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Doreen….The 08 season got off to such a bad start, I think Pavano had to pitch the season opener at The Stadium becasue Wang was hurt….That was the spring when everyone had groin pulls….Once Jorge and Matsui went down the season was really lost……But you’re right about the poor timing for Ian & Phil as they both were lights out in September 07…..

  112. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Doreen December 22nd, 2010 at 8:20 pm
    GB7 =

    IPK was so good in 2007 that my husband was sure he’d be the “sleeper” of the 3 and go on to be better than Hughes and Joba.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    The game that made me really take notice wasn’t the first 2 starts but the 3rd start in Toronto…7 innings of 1 hit baseball. A 1st inning double by Frank Thomas and then went toe to toe with AJ Burnett. No decision but that was some perfomance against a team that could hit and on carpet.

  113. MTU December 22nd, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    Randy-

    You know what.

    I’d send Joba to Volorado and make him climb every 14teener there. With a full pack.

    That would do it.

  114. Pat M. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    Betsy, the guy ( Ian ) should have been on the DL coming out of camp……..

  115. pat December 22nd, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    Yankees signed former Braves prospect Steve Evarts to a minor league deal.

  116. Carlo December 22nd, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    Crazy that cashman didn’t think the bench was plenty good despite the cries on here last night that Golson was “better than any attainable free agent out there”.

    Golson, please. “Great 4th outfielder”. That conversation was the apex of pure yankee fan dellusion.

  117. ac1 December 22nd, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    Carlo, so you agree Damon would be worth bringing back at a ‘reasonable’ offer? Maybe 5M?

  118. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 8:31 pm

    Pat M, now that we’re discussing this, it is all coming back to me…………….Now I do remember IPK’s lat injury. Sigh – what an absolute nightmare. So, when people refer to multiple kids in the staff, it’s not quite fair to refer to 2008. Phil would never have pitched that badly had he not been hurt.

  119. Doreen December 22nd, 2010 at 8:31 pm

    I wish the Yankees could steal IPK back. I know I’m in the minority, though.

  120. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:31 pm

    “Maybe that was already tried to no avail ?”

    mtu-

    i think that 25 is just too young to give up on a kid.i think cashman has developed a bad attitude with joba which is ironic because he gave the poor kid all of 90 innings in the minors.

    also, it’s important to remember that yankee pitching development has not all been on the same page as eiland’s firing shows.

    eiland really was not that good. he had no clue with wang. burnett just got worse and worse. joba deteriorated.

    maybe there’s some hope in rothschild.

    if nothing else it’s a variable that may mean there’s a chance he’ll straighten out burnett and joba.

    i’d be surprised if a pitching coach watched joba throw all his pitches and not see a starter.

    what if rothchild watches joba and sees starter.

    that’d be interesting.

  121. Carlo December 22nd, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    Absolutely. Would love to see him back on a one year deal. Love it.

  122. Doreen December 22nd, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    GB7, Pat M -

    IPK had icewater in his veins. Sigh.

    Pat M -

    You’re right – that season got off to an awful start and it just kept getting worse. It’s amazing they won 89 games.

  123. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    “I’d send Joba to Volorado and make him climb every 14teener there. With a full pack.”

    good idea.

    we’ll make him wear a t-shirt that says, ” Volarado or Bust”.

  124. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 8:35 pm

    pat December 22nd, 2010 at 8:29 pm
    Yankees signed former Braves prospect Steve Evarts to a minor league deal

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    I read that earlier. another left handed pitcher. Should be interesting. he’s missed almost 3 seasons, and still just 23.

    http://www.baseball-reference......arts001ste

  125. MTU December 22nd, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    Randy-

    I agree with some of what you have said but I still think a lot of responsibility lies with Joba.

    I understand what you have argued but I think the Yankees have him pegged as a reliever or nothing.

    That is why I wanted to see him traded because I thought he might benefit from the change of scenery.

  126. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    i think as people remember back to 2007 and 2008 it’s obvious that pitching development is a slow process.

    rushing a pitcher for mlb short term needs is really counterproductive. hughes, joba, and kennedy all could have benefitted from more minor league time. it was simply too much too soon.

  127. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:34 pm
    “I’d send Joba to Volorado and make him climb every 14teener there. With a full pack.”

    good idea.

    we’ll make him wear a t-shirt that says, ” Volarado or Bust”.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    You old geezer. You’d better not make any typos.

  128. pat December 22nd, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    GB

    Sounds like a lowrisk/high reward? reclamation project. Coming back from 2008 TJ Surgery and multiple collisions with the penal code.

  129. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    “That is why I wanted to see him traded because I thought he might benefit from the change of scenery.”

    mtu-

    if the yankees really have given up on joba, i still think they should have him start so they can trade him and get more. all they’d have to do is start him and have him show some success( eventually he’d have a good streak) and then they could dangle that potential to other teams.

  130. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:45 pm

    ” You’d better not make any typos.”

    i had to shut off “correct spelling” on my mac because it was putting down words i didn’t mean.

    you have to admit “Volorado” was kind of a classic even for you.

  131. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 8:45 pm

    pat, I wasn’t aware of the legal issues. Hopefully that’s the end of his issues. I’m sure that he has one chance or he’s gone.

  132. MTU December 22nd, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    Randy-

    I simply think that Yankees have pigeon-holed Joba and they are unwilling to reconsider their position.

    They don’t seem to want to put in any more effort towards turning him back into a starter.

    He had a chance last season, and unfortunately, he did not seize the opportunity.

    Shame really. He helped dig his own grave, at least with the Yankees.

  133. ConcernedCitizen December 22nd, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    Poor CC… he wanted a buddy. Hope this doesn’t dissuade him from returning to the Yankees.

    Like this article alludes: http://www.nesn.com/2010/12/ya.....eason.html

  134. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:45 pm
    ” You’d better not make any typos.”

    i had to shut off “correct spelling” on my mac because it was putting down words i didn’t mean.

    you have to admit “Volorado” was kind of a classic even for you.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    LMAO. Can I use your SpellCheck excuse? I can’t keep blaming everything on the Twins or “Killer”.

  135. Pat M. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    Doreen……Arizona demanded the inclusiomn of Ian Kennedy in the package or their would be no deal…….If you recall that trade was bing rumored for a day or two and the snag was Ian Kennedy who was just outstanding after he came back from his 09 surgery…..I though that he pitched in Arizona’s Fall League as well ……There was very little supoort here for Ian Kennedy, and in the next year or two, they’ll be much crow to be consumed ……

  136. 108 stitches December 22nd, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    Looking back on Chamberlain’s career, he should have spent the entire year of 2008 at AAA Scranton/Wilkes-Barre under innings supervision and mechanics correction as needed.
    He went from 100.1 innings in 2008 with the Yankees and 157.1 innings in 2009 and 71.2 innings last year working strictly out of the bullpen. It’s been a see-saw.
    For him to be expected to build arm strength again is a faint possibility especially in his physical condition. The best hope is for Rothschild to teach him repeated delivery out of the bullpen in 2011 and stretch him further by pitching winter ball after 2011 unless he goes in a deal before then.

    http://yankees.mlb.com/team/pl....._id=501955

  137. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    Yanks could use IPK right about now.

  138. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    “They don’t seem to want to put in any more effort towards turning him back into a starter.”

    mtu-

    that’s what has me ticked off.

    he’s 25 years old.

    that’s way too young to be given up on.

    what they really should do is let him start at triple a for a few months.

  139. Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    Only those who aren’t happy with Granderson would regret the trade……or would want to redo it. I’m glad Ian is having success in AZ, but who’s to say how he would do here? In any case, the Yankees didn’t have much faith in Jackson…………. It does make you wonder just which youngsters they will have faith in.

  140. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    “Can I use your SpellCheck excuse?”

    by all means, use it.

    you need all the help you can get.

    it’s the least i can do :)

  141. MTU December 22nd, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    Randy-

    No longer an option. Joba would have to pass
    thru waivers first.

    He’d never make it.

    Someone would claim him.

    The Yankees could pull him back the first time but if they tried it a 2nd time the waivers are irrevocable.

    Seems like a pointless exercise.

    No way to return him to the minors even if they wanted to.

    Catch 22.

  142. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    Another thing about Damon: If a deal came along for a frontline starting pitcher between now and ST and the team demanded that Gardner be part of the package then having Damon around would at least give them an option for LF in that event…..instead of having to say no or scramble to find a replacement.

    They obviously would probably need to look for a longer term replacement and a better defender but he could give them options in that regard or if Gardner gets injured or regresses significantly.

  143. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    I don’t regret the trade….I think in the end Granderson will make it well worthwhile, I just wish they hadn’t had to include Kennedy.

  144. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    just looked up ian kennedy.

    damn, he had a real good year in 2010.

    the yankees could really use him this year.

  145. PittsburghYankeeFan December 22nd, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    MTU–they can send Joba down to the minors to “rehab” if they really wanted to.

    Damon–a reasonable choice, if he comes cheap and understands his role.

  146. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 9:01 pm

    “No way to return him to the minors even if they wanted to.”

    how about he gets “injured” and has a long minor league rehab :)

  147. MTU December 22nd, 2010 at 9:01 pm

    Pitt-

    There has to be a injury to set up a rehab, no ?

  148. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 8:56 pm
    “Can I use your SpellCheck excuse?”

    by all means, use it.

    you need all the help you can get.

    it’s the least i can do

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    For such an old goat, you’re almost tolerable.

  149. Doreen December 22nd, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    No.

    I like Granderson. I was happy to get him.

    I wish it didn’t take IPK and I wish they could get him back.

    The Yankees had the opportunity to get the full-grown version of Jackson in Granderson. I don’t think they gave up on Jackson; they had the opportunity to not have to be patient and took it.

  150. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    MTU December 22nd, 2010 at 9:01 pm
    Pitt-

    There has to be a injury to set up a rehab, no ?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    I believe the medical report to be put on the injury list will have read, Joba has a boo-boo.”

    Signed:

    Joba’s dad.

  151. MTU December 22nd, 2010 at 9:07 pm

    GB-

    You’ve been hanging out with the Twins again.

    Right ?

    I don’t think that works in the majors.

    ;)

  152. CB December 22nd, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    “There was very little supoort here for Ian Kennedy, and in the next year or two, they’ll be much crow to be consumed ……”

    One of the most unfortunate aspect of the Kennedy situation was how irrationally so many people in the yankee fan base over reacted to those dumb comments he made after that one loss of his.

    That was it. Yankee fans just lost it with Kennedy afterwords.

    One of the things Yankee fans either don’t understand or simply won’t accept is that part of the development process for young players has to take place at the major league level. It has to. There’s no other way to receive that experience other than to go through it.

    And when it comes to playing in NY part of that development extends to how a young player interacts with the media.

    But Kennedy wasn’t shown much patience with either his performance on the field or one dumb post game interview he did at the age of 24.

    It’s funny listening to the same some of the same fans who showed Kennedy almost no patience now criticizing the yankees for not being patient enough with other pitchers like Hughes and Joba or warning the Yankees not to rush Betances and Banuelos. It’s sort of comical.

    It’s very easy to be “patient” with prospects when they are in the minors. It’s much more difficult to maintain that patience when they inevitably fall short of the unrealistic expectations at the major league level and turn into instantaneous “disappointments” who need to be shown out the door of the organization.

  153. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 9:11 pm

    Phelps reminds me a little of Kennedy but he throws a bit harder. Both know how to pitch and throw strikes.

  154. MTU December 22nd, 2010 at 9:14 pm

    Blake-

    Kennedy had an excellent change Phelps does not have fully developed secondary stuff.

    Maybe they have a similar mound presence and good control.

    Is that what you mean ?

  155. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 9:18 pm

    MTU,

    yes. He has a good curveball.. mostly talking about “pitchabilty” lol.

  156. Carlo December 22nd, 2010 at 9:18 pm

    Gotta love the revisionist history here. Kennedy couldn’t be gone fast enough, now he’s the prodigal son everyone wants home. Amazing.

  157. BoJo December 22nd, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    I think I can actually picture a valid reason for having Joba stay in the pen.

    If he has trouble repeating his delivery, AND they are worried about him injuring his shoulder because of his violent delivery, I think a good plan would be to limit his innings this year while trying to get Rothschild to fix his mechanics. If he is able to find a repeatable delivery and recover his velocity and slider movement, and the mechanics are smooth enough to not put undue strain on his shoulder, then I would say he is ready to go back to the SP rotation at the still young age of 26.

    In a sense, they are protecting him until he fixes a huge flaw.

    I have no idea of that is their actual thinking, but I would hope it is. It would mean they are being patient with a big talent, and fixing a problem before pushing him hard.

  158. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    In 88 innings at Trenton this year Phelps was 6-0 with a 2.04 ERA and a .974 WHIP…..he had a 2.50 ERA overall between AA and AAA in 158 innings. Thats a pretty good season.

  159. 108 stitches December 22nd, 2010 at 9:24 pm

    Damon’s noodle arm makes him one-dimensional. Maybe some pinch hitting and some DH games split with others.
    No surprise if Scott Boras wants upwards of $5M for a year of his services.

  160. TD213 December 22nd, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    The Yankees sent Kennedy back to the minors in favor of Rasner (and eventually Pavano) after that Angels start, presumably after those comments. I remember Mussina publicly said he wasn’t happy with those comments and Pete Abe said a lot of people in the clubhouse were not happy with him. They pulled Rasner from the rotation for Kennedy, Kennedy had one bad start and they sent him down, then they re-inserted Rasner back into the rotation. So obviously, something made them act that way.

    Kennedy made 14 starts in the minors in 2008… while Rasner/Ponson/Pavano were making big league starts. They didn’t even bring him back up in September (like they did with Hughes).

    I don’t think the Yanks showed much patience with him either.

  161. Doreen December 22nd, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    Carlo -

    You can go back and read every post I ever made about Kennedy. No revisionist history there at all.

  162. joeman December 22nd, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    no way Damon should be allowed anywhere near a OF, do we forget how he played the position when he was here…that was a disaster and tough to watch

  163. mick December 22nd, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    # Betsy December 22nd, 2010 at 7:55 pm

    LGY, no idea of what your point is… I have an idea. You stop repeating yourself and I’ll stop repeating mine. You’re annoyed that I’m upset with Cash? Too bad.
    =============================
    Ever read the book “How To Win Friends and Influence People?”

  164. 108 stitches December 22nd, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    Cashman should have learned a lesson from 2007-2008 that force feeding pitchers like what happened to Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy is counter productive.
    All 3 came through the levels at a rapid pace. Much too rapid for their ages and amount of innings. Each pitcher is a different case. What applies to a David Phelps, or Hector Noesi may not work for a Dellin Betances or a Manny Banuelos.

  165. Yank1 December 22nd, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    Damon could be a DH/LF and bat off the bench

    A Damon-Montero-Nunez-Golson (or some other 4th OFer) would be pretty good. Good mix of skills – Lots of pop, LH and RH power, and some speed.

  166. joeman December 22nd, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    Damon…nay..nay

  167. Pat M. December 22nd, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    Carlo…..That one post game interview that Ian was roasted for is the same denial stuff we’ve come to consider normal from Joba……2008 was a tension filled season in the Yankee clubhouse , front office and for the fame base…..The old Stadium was closing and there wasn’t going to be any Postseason send off…….He was called up in September 2009 vs. Anahiem….He hit a batter, walked the next 2 hitter faced and got out of the inning without surrendering a run…..He received a World Series ring none the less…….

  168. mick December 22nd, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    Damon is a winner.

  169. mick December 22nd, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    Knicks on fire.

  170. joeman December 22nd, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    # mick December 22nd, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    Damon is a winner.
    ——————————————————–

    if he comes here to be a DH fine, but if he’s here to also play the OF, no way the ball always finds him and his 10 bounces to home plate from short LF

  171. mick December 22nd, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    joeman

    damon is alright to catch a flyball, weak arm, yes, but would love him at the right price,,,,can still hit at the Stadium

  172. Yank1 December 22nd, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    As poorly as the Generation Trey experiment went in 2008… our season probably collapsed more so because of Wang’s injury and Pettitte’s rapid 2nd half decline. Combined with an inconsistent/streaky offense. We could have made it to Oct. if we had a 1-2-3 of Mussina-Wang-Andy all pitching well down the stretch. Mussina was terrific that year too.

    Pen was nice that year too… Joe squeezed a lot out of Bruney, Veras, Edwar, Traber, Coke, Robertson, Ohlendorf, and even Farnsworth did well in the 1st half.

  173. mick December 22nd, 2010 at 9:46 pm

    Knicks by 20.

  174. joeman December 22nd, 2010 at 9:46 pm

    # mick December 22nd, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    joeman

    damon is alright to catch a flyball, weak arm, yes, but would love him at the right price,,,,can still hit at the Stadium
    ——————————————————–
    they need SP & RP… they don’t need a 38 year old part time DH-OFer

  175. mick December 22nd, 2010 at 9:48 pm

    they need a 4th OF and possible dh and have the $$$ for a SP & RP

  176. jacksquat December 22nd, 2010 at 9:48 pm

    Joba should read this article.

  177. mick December 22nd, 2010 at 9:48 pm

    don’t worry they won’t pay him the 5m he wants

  178. Pat M. December 22nd, 2010 at 9:48 pm

    Yank1…..They also lost Alex for a time and then Damon but the real knockout punch was they lost Matsui and Posada, they were cooked…..

  179. mick December 22nd, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    damon would come in handy when posada gets hurt

  180. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    ” Kennedy couldn’t be gone fast enough, now he’s the prodigal son everyone wants home.”

    carlo-

    most people who have been here a while have pretty consistent positions. my position on young pitchers is that i really don’t want to see them at the mlb level until they are 23-24 and 25 is not too late for most.

    there are exceptions, but most pitchers need to learn their craft slowly. a few mlb starts to see what it’s like isn’t bad . the yankees are a unique situation because they have to win each year. they really can’t let a young pitcher stay if he’s costing them making the playoffs.

    the red sox sent buccholz down multiple times and he was pretty old by the time he finally emerged as a good pitcher.

    buchholz started 90 games in the minor leagues.

    joba started 15 games in the minor leagues

    when exactly was chamberlain supposed to learn his craft?

    how could he work on something when winning mattered at the mlb level.

    buchholz had the luxury of working on weaknesses without winning mattering at the triple a level.

    i think the approach the red sox took was clearly superior to the approach the yankees took with joba.

  181. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 9:56 pm

    “joba started 15 games in the minor leagues

    when exactly was chamberlain supposed to learn his craft?”

    very good point.

  182. Against All Odds December 22nd, 2010 at 9:58 pm

    # LGY December 22nd, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    My own opinions on Joba go back and forth between whether he should be starting but I think the Yankees need to give this kid a clear role.

    This up in the air stuff isn’t helping.
    ————————————————-

    You make a good point it’s important to give him a clear cut role. The problem is that the yankees painted themselves in this box. Why tell Joba when he lost the 5th spot to Hughes he was a reliever and that’s it. The kids on the farm weren’t ready and anything could happen between now and then. Look what has happened Lee is a Philly and Andy might retire. The Yankees limited their options and that was a big mistake on their part.

  183. TheStraw December 22nd, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    Mick-

    Agree 100%. Damon is clutch and I hated to see him go in the first place. At a moderate price, he would bring a great deal of flexibility and be a real asset. That play in Philadelphia is etched in my mind forever.

  184. Jerzz December 22nd, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    “joba started 15 games in the minor leagues”

    And perhaps even worse, he never got sent down to the minors. Once he came here in 2007, they left him at the big league level.

    Hughes, Kennedy, Robertson, Melancon, etc. took tons of trips on the Scranton Shuttle and Joba never did, even though his performance hardly warranted a permanent big league stay.

  185. mick December 22nd, 2010 at 10:02 pm

    If Andy doesn’t return and they get some bullpen help, why can’t Joba get another crack?

  186. mick December 22nd, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    Straw

    I think the Yanks would entertain bringing Johnny back for the right price .
    The only chance is if no other team wants him IMO.

  187. JT December 22nd, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    if Johnny Damon comes back he’s going to play pretty regularly–regardless of how they think they have things settled at LF/DH. He has an overall skill set that complements Gardner, Granderson and Posada. And he’s durable.

    Would be a fun-to-root-for 450 PA.

  188. Carlo December 22nd, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    Doreen/others – I didn’t specifally call out any of you. I am merely pointing out that when kennedy was traded, no one said a word. It was a lot of “bad attitude”, “baby”, “wasn’t going to make it in NY”, etc type stuff. Those of you, Pat M, Doreen, etc, who weren’t on that train then and think we made a mistake now, I have no problem with that. I just don’t think the majority felt the way you did then, yet seemingly the majority now believes kennedy could be really helpful.

    Frankly, I don’t think Kennedy is anything special. He would be a 4/5 type starter on a middling AL team…..not what we need.

  189. P December 22nd, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    what more do you want from a Nancy player? Damon is perfect! it was a bungled negotiation and we both lost .. he wound up out of NY and we got a guy who played 5 games named nick Johnson .. I much rather have Damon on my bench than any of the alternatives!

    geez nothing makes u people happy.. other than getting kong Felix for Pena type deal’

    #toughcrowd

  190. mick December 22nd, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    They should stop fooling around and get Damon, doubt he would take the 2m they might offer tho.
    No doubt he would come in handy, Gardner looks injury prone.
    They need a legit 4th OF, who can hit, Thames was nice, but hopefully Montero gets his AB’s.

  191. P December 22nd, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    iPhone turned “bench” into “Nancy” wow my phone is such a “smart phone”!!!

  192. mick December 22nd, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    Hard to believe Damon got 8m last year.

  193. Carlo December 22nd, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    Hard to believe we are going after another outfielder. I swore there was a flashmob on here last night telling me that “golson was better than anyone left on the free agent list that we could obtain for the role”. Stoooooooooooges.

  194. blake December 22nd, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    Only thing is that Damon has an outside shot at 3,000 hits. Hes about 3 seasons away with regular work so its maybe a long shot at this point but to sign with the Yankees in a bench role would pretty much be giving up on that. He’d probably get a lot of AB’s with the Yanks but he would probably prefer an every day job if one comes along…..I’d like to see him back if not though…..

  195. tyanksfan36 December 22nd, 2010 at 10:17 pm

    P says:

    December 22, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    iPhone turned “bench” into “Nancy” wow my phone is such a “smart phone”!!!

    —–

    My phone turns “Papelbon” into “Paperboy”. I think it suits him.

  196. mick December 22nd, 2010 at 10:18 pm

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/new_york_yankees/

    check this out

  197. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    I don’t really see Damon rejoinimg the Yankees for 250-300 at bats. He can get 500+ with Tampa for the same money that NYYs would likely offer.

  198. Against All Odds December 22nd, 2010 at 10:24 pm

    randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 7:45 pm

    i think the topic of joba as a starter is going to heat up unless cashman gets a good starter pretty soon.
    ——————————————–

    It might be heating up already since he felt the need to come out and reiterate that Joba is in the pen leads me to believe one of two things. Either he’s responding to the fans on the net that constantly bring it up or ppl within the organization have brought it up.

  199. joeman December 22nd, 2010 at 10:24 pm

    Carlo December 22nd, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    Hard to believe we are going after another outfielder. I swore there was a flashmob on here last night telling me that “golson was better than anyone left on the free agent list that we could obtain for the role”
    ———————————————-
    wind changed directions…….SP & RP Needed

  200. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    This is the guy that deserves a long, legitimate look during spring training.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/.....pid=451629

  201. Against All Odds December 22nd, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    MTU December 22nd, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    Randy-

    Joba knew he was going to have to compete for a starting job last season and instead of coming into camp ripped and ready to go he
    wasn’t ready. Even with that hanging over his head.
    ————————————————————–

    Maybe he didn’t go all out for the job because there was no way he was going to win it. Once the Yankees traded for Javy who the 5th starter would be started to take shape. Hughes needed to be a starter in 2010 in order to get his innings, Joba struggled in 2009, everyone raved about Hughes pitching in the pen would help Hughes be a starter , Joba ended 2009 in the bullpen, and there was no way either pitcher would be sent to scranton to be a starter.

  202. TheStraw December 22nd, 2010 at 10:36 pm

    GB7-

    He’s going to be 31. Are you saying he’s a late bloomer?

  203. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 10:37 pm

    ‘This is the guy that deserves a long, legitimate look during spring training.”

    are you crazy?

    he’s only 31.

    he needs more seasoning in the minors :)

    …but some nice offensive stats there.

  204. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    Randy, he’s the right handed version of Garner. Runs like a deer, pretty decent arm. some power, great gap hitter and plays good defense at all outfield spots and could fill in at 2nd base in a pinch. He was with the Yanks in 2008.

  205. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2010 at 10:42 pm

    ***Gardner***

  206. Hopdevil December 22nd, 2010 at 10:43 pm

    If Damon still wants to play I don’t see why he would sign with Yanks. If he just wants to hang out and bank a few mil…then I guess it would make sense for him.

  207. West Coast Yankee Fan December 22nd, 2010 at 10:43 pm

    Joba will be pumping gas in Nebraska when he’s bald and there will still be people here wondering when he’s going to start.

    “Cashman said reliever Joba Chamberlain would not be a candidate to start – 12/22/10

    How many times does he have to say it?

  208. Against All Odds December 22nd, 2010 at 10:48 pm

    # West Coast Yankee Fan December 22nd, 2010 at 10:43 pm

    Joba will be pumping gas in Nebraska when he’s bald and there will still be people here wondering when he’s going to start.

    “Cashman said reliever Joba Chamberlain would not be a candidate to start – 12/22/10

    How many times does he have to say it?
    ——————————————————

    He has to say it until he gives the reason behind it. Once he does no one will mention that Joba should get a chance to start

  209. TheStraw December 22nd, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    How many times does he have to say it?
    ——————————————————

    He has to say it until he gives the reason behind it. Once he does no one will mention that Joba should get a chance to start
    ————-

    He gave the reason yesterday. He said Joba’s velocity as a starter was just not good enough to cut it, that his velocity improves as a reliever.

  210. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    “He gave the reason yesterday. He said Joba’s velocity as a starter was just not good enough to cut it”

    if he said that, then he knows even less about pitching than i thought he did.

    lots of starters throw in the low 90′s.

    of course maybe their gm let them start more than 15 games in the minors so they actually learned how to pitch.

  211. Against All Odds December 22nd, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    # TheStraw December 22nd, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    How many times does he have to say it?
    ——————————————————

    He has to say it until he gives the reason behind it. Once he does no one will mention that Joba should get a chance to start
    ————-

    He gave the reason yesterday. He said Joba’s velocity as a starter was just not good enough to cut it, that his velocity improves as a reliever.
    ————————————————

    The problem with that is his velocity as a starter was ok until he got injured. Hell before they kicked in the Joba rules he has those 3 games after the break and his velocity was consistent on back to back to back starts for the first time all yr.

  212. West Coast Yankee Fan December 22nd, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    Oh, so every pitcher who starts lots of games in the minors becomes a good big league pitcher? Don’t you think the professional and experienced Yankees staff evaluated Joba before coming to the conclusion that he wasn’t suited to be a starter?

    I want to play poker with this crowd, they’ll keep calling when they have nothing hand after hand just in case the next two cards are aces.

  213. Against All Odds December 22nd, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    # BoJo December 22nd, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    I think I can actually picture a valid reason for having Joba stay in the pen.

    If he has trouble repeating his delivery, AND they are worried about him injuring his shoulder because of his violent delivery, I think a good plan would be to limit his innings this year while trying to get Rothschild to fix his mechanics. If he is able to find a repeatable delivery and recover his velocity and slider movement, and the mechanics are smooth enough to not put undue strain on his shoulder, then I would say he is ready to go back to the SP rotation at the still young age of 26.

    In a sense, they are protecting him until he fixes a huge flaw.

    I have no idea of that is their actual thinking, but I would hope it is. It would mean they are being patient with a big talent, and fixing a problem before pushing him hard.
    —————————————-

    That’s possible that could be a reason I have hear a couple fans suggest something similar to that but the problem is no way he starts in 2012 if he’s not starting in 2012. It would be a stretch for them to move off their stance at that point.

  214. Against All Odds December 22nd, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan December 22nd, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    Don’t you think the professional and experienced Yankees staff evaluated Joba before coming to the conclusion that he wasn’t suited to be a starter?
    ——————————————

    Why should we have faith in how they evaluated Joba when it was clear they didn’t know how to handle him. The routine in Aug/Sep was a joke: long rest, normal rest, long rest, normal rest, and the 3-4 inning relief starts.

  215. West Coast Yankee Fan December 22nd, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    I see. So the bloggers know. But the professionals who do this for a living for the premier baseball franchise in the world don’t know what they are doing. Is that credible?

    It was awkward, but they obviously thought they were protecting a young pitchers arm by limiting his workload.

  216. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 11:27 pm

    “Don’t you think the professional and experienced Yankees staff evaluated Joba before coming to the conclusion that he wasn’t suited to be a starter?”

    the professional and experienced yankee staff also hired and fired eiland too.

    what does that tell you?

    it tells me that they make mistakes.

  217. Against All Odds December 22nd, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    # West Coast Yankee Fan December 22nd, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    I see. So the bloggers know. But the professionals who do this for a living for the premier baseball franchise in the world don’t know what they are doing. Is that credible?

    It was awkward, but they obviously thought they were protecting a young pitchers arm by limiting his workload.
    —————————————————————

    When a pitcher(CC) remarked on how weird the routine was it goes beyond just being weird. Hell even Jorge came out and said something to the affect of he’s trying his best under these circumstances. I’m sorry but the Yankees at one point how no idea when how to handle the kid and it showed in the 09 Joba Rules/

    Their hearts were in the right place but their execution was wrong. Nothing is wrong with protecting a young arm.

  218. Against All Odds December 22nd, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    *had no idea*

  219. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    .” But the professionals who do this for a living for the premier baseball franchise in the world don’t know what they are doing. Is that credible?”

    who do you think these guys are?

    i’ve been around a lot of mlb pitching coaches.

    trust me , they make lots of mistakes.

    and as far as an organization goes,i think you’d be shocked how few coaches there are helping players even at the triple a level let alone the lower levels.

  220. CB December 22nd, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    This is going to be an ugly year within the yankee fan base.

  221. randy l. December 22nd, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    cb-

    the yankees are possibly going into a season with very thin pitching.

    a pitching coach has been fired.

    the yankees at the present have two good starters.

    i think unhappiness with the situation is the appropriate response.

  222. CB December 22nd, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    Randy-

    I’m not commenting on appropriate or inappropriate. It’s not even January.

    I’m just saying it’s going to be ugly.

    Most years the yankees have been able to construct teams in the winter that look like 95-100 win teams.

    Going into this season they’re likely only going to be able to construct a team that looks like it’ll wing 90-95 games.

    And the fanbase seems livid about this.

  223. randy l. December 23rd, 2010 at 12:04 am

    cb-

    if pettitte decides to play another year, things will be looking better , but it seems like cashman is dragging a bit in working on getting more pitching.

    also on the plus side ,i do not think burnett will be as bad as last year.

    i do however think he’s taking the wrong approach with joba and really limiting him.

    theres a new post by the way.

  224. CB December 23rd, 2010 at 12:18 am

    randy-

    I’d get Joba to prepare as a starter as well.

    But that’s not going to change Joba’s problem. His problem isn’t his role.

    He no longer throws the ball well. He just does not repeat his mechanics and in turn his stuff fluctuates enormously. I can’t remember the last pitcher I’ve seen whose stuff varies so wildly.

    So while I’d get him ready as a starter I really wouldn’t have very high expectations for what he could contribute unless the problems with his mechanics can be ironed out.

    And I don’t know if they can – particularly given the weight he’s gained and the athleticism he may have lost because of it.

  225. Jerkface December 23rd, 2010 at 1:07 am

    I don’t think Kennedy would have excelled as he did in Arizona in the AL east, but I do wish they had not traded him. However, I will say that returning Granderson is very good for Kennedy’s value, and I hope both do well in the future.


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