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A year of trades for the Yankees

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 23, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

One year and one day after last winter’s trade for a Javier Vazquez, a look back at the Yankees trades from December to December.

PH2009120703823December 7, 2009
RHP Brian Bruney to the Nationals for OF Jamie Hoffmann
Why? Because Bruney was due for an arbitration raise and the Yankees outfield depth was woefully low.
Good move? Didn’t really matter. Bruney probably would have been non-tendered anyway, and the Yankees at least got to take a look at a guy who’s now on the Dodgers 40-man roster. No harm done. Hoffmann was a Rule 5 pick who didn’t stick. Bruney was a reliever on his way out.

December 8, 2010
RHP Ian Kennedy to the Diamondbacks, LHP Phil Coke and CF Austin Jackson to the Tigers for CF Curtis Granderson
Why? Because the Yankees were worried about Jackson’s holes and didn’t have a spot for Kennedy. In Granderson, they seemed to be getting a proven player who basically represented Jackson’s best-case scenario.
Good move? Little too early to say. Jackson, Coke and Kennedy each had good years, but Jackson showed the holes that the Yankees expected — a ton of strikeouts, not much power — and Kennedy might have benefited from the change of scenery. If Granderson continues the strides he made in the second half of last season, he’ll be better than any of the three players the Yankees sacrificed to get him.

Rangers Yankees BaseballDecember 22, 2009
CF Melky Cabrera, LHP Mike Dunn and RHP Arodys Vizcaino to the Braves for RHP Javier Vazquez and LHP Boone Logan
Why?
Because the Yankees needed consistency and durability at the back of the rotation, and those had been trademarks of Vazquez for 10 years.
Good move? No. Vazquez was a complete disappointment, but Cabrera wasn’t very good either, and Logan for Dunn was basically a wash. This seemed to be a big trade, but in the end, the left-handed relievers were the best pieces. Even Vizcaino took a step back, making only 17 starts because of a torn ligament. The Yankees got a compensation pick when Vazquez signed the Florida, so that helps make up for the loss of a very young prospect.

January 26, 2010
INF Mitch Hilligoss to the Rangers for OF Greg Golson
Why? Because the Yankees needed outfield depth much more than infield depth.
Good move? Sure. Hilligoss had a nice year — .296/.365/.370 between High-A and Double-A — but Golson played a role in New York, and he should be around to do the same next season whenever the Yankees need him. Hilligoss would still be no higher than fourth or fifth on the utility depth chart. Golson is probably at the top of the outfield call-up list.

March 9, 2010
RHP Edwar Ramirez to the Rangers for cash considerations
Why? Because Ramirez had been designated for assignment to make room for Chan Ho Park.
Good move? At least they got something for him. Ramirez actually didn’t do much more than Park. He was ultimately traded to the A’s, pitched 11 innings in the big leagues and he’s now floating through free agency, probably destined for a minor league deal somewhere.

ALCS Yankees Rangers BaseballJuly 30, 2010
RHP Zach McAllister to the Indians for OF Austin Kearns
Why? Because McAllister was quickly becoming overshadowed in Triple-A, Kearns was hitting pretty well in Cleveland and the Yankees needed a right-handed fourth outfielder.
Good move?
Looked good for a little while, but ultimately no. Through his first 17 games with the Yankees, Kearns hit .275/.373/.451 and was especially helpful during that August road trip through Texas and Kansas City, but he was dreadful in September. McAllister didn’t pitch any better for Triple-A Columbus than he had for Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, and he was passed by a ton of talent coming through the Yankees system, but it wasn’t worth losing him for three good weeks from Kearns.

July 31, 2010
RHP Mark Melancon and INF Jimmy Paredes to the Astros for DH Lance Berkman
Why?
Because the Yankees needed to created a platoon at designated hitter, and Berkman gave them someone who could legitimately hit lefties. Melancon’s time and come and gone, and Paredes was an afterthought in the Yankees system.
Good move? Yes. Berkman got off to a slow start, but when he came off the disabled list he hit .299/.405/.388 through the month of September, and he was better than most of the Yankees hitters in the playoffs. I’m one of the few Melancon believer still out there, but he had his chances to prove himself in New York and never did. Unless Paredes significantly exceeds expectations, this will have been a worthwhile trade.

July 31, 2010
INF Matt Cusick and RHP Andrew Shive to the Indians for RHP Kerry Wood
Why? Because the Yankees had a chance to solidify the bullpen without losing any key pieces of the farm system.
Good move? You bet. No offense to Cusick and Shive, but they were pretty far off the prospect radar in the Yankees system. Wood, meanwhile, seemed to magically bring the bullpen together to make it one of the Yankees absolute strengths down the stretch. If the Yankees had continued their playoff run, the Wood trade would have been considered one of the great turning points of the season.

November 18, 2010
1B Juan Miranda to the Diamondbacks for RHP Scottie Allen
Why?
Because Miranda is out of options and had no spot on the big league roster.
Good move? Sure. It’s too early to know whether Allen will turn into anything of value — he’s not even 20 years old yet — but Miranda was completely expendable. With Jorge Posada ready to get most of the DH at-bats and Mark Teixeira entrenched at first base, Miranda had no place in the organization and it was best for everyone involved to send him elsewhere and get something in return.

Associated Press photos of Bruney, Cabrera and Kearns

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599 Responses to “A year of trades for the Yankees”

  1. Erica in NY December 23rd, 2010 at 9:09 am

    Hey everyone-

    I am leaving now and will return tomorrow. But I leave you all knowing my fingers are fixed crossed for the impending return of Johnny Damon.

    Just in case you have any lingering doubts about where I stand….. I think its a terrific idea to sign him

  2. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 9:11 am

    Erica-

    safe trip.

    Have fun.

    As you’re blog friend I urge you not to get your hopes too high for a reunion. Pretend or otherwise.

    ;)

  3. Fran the original December 23rd, 2010 at 9:14 am

    The trade for Curtis Granderson may turn out to be the best of all depending on if he builds on what he did the second half of last season and the playoffs.

  4. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 9:15 am

    Genius Maker,

    I think everyone or at least I do know Gardner’s value. You don’t trade him just for the sake of trading him because the Yankees need him. That still wouldn’t stop me from moving him for the right pitcher.

    Gardner is in his late 20’s and has shown to have some injury risk….once he gets into the arb years (which will be pretty soon) he won’t hold as much value as he does now. He could improve sure but right now could also be the peak of his value. All I’m saying is that I would trade him for a significant rotation upgrade….otherwise keep him and let him play every day.

  5. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 9:15 am

    If the Yankees OS had a name like in the Chinese New Year.

    This OS would be called the year of the “Sloth”.

    Or the year of the “Gopher”.

    But I’d love for it to be the year of the “Phoenix”.

    ;)

  6. Benny Blanco December 23rd, 2010 at 9:15 am

    I like Damon but he’s out of his mind to think that he will get to 3000 hits in the next three years. He’s 429 away. He would have to be an everyday player and hit at least 150 over the next three years. Is it doable? Yes, but highley unlikely.

  7. upstate kate December 23rd, 2010 at 9:16 am

    Have a great time Erica…fingers crossed for you :)

    Fran
    I was rewatching the Martha Stewart show that CG was on this am before work…I really really like him!

  8. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 9:18 am

    CC is going to be on Mike and Mike this morning.

    MTU,

    If the ChiSox can’t sign Danks to an extension it could happen at some point. I’d take Danks over Cliff Lee right now given their ages and contracts.

  9. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 9:18 am

    Kate-

    If Johnny D were to return Erica would have to throw a real party instead of a pretend one.

  10. Benny Blanco December 23rd, 2010 at 9:18 am

    I’m not concerned about the grandy man. I strongly believe he will hit between 275-280 and hit about 30-35 Hrs next year.

  11. Doreen December 23rd, 2010 at 9:20 am

    Have fun Erica!

  12. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Blake-

    You might be right but the trend has been to lock up good young pitchers, and Danks is certainly that.

    The 2011 OS class looks weak but the 2012 class looks very strong.

    Wanna know who is a FA in 2012 ?

    Matt freakin’ Cain. that’s who.

    Would I ever love to steal him away from the Giants.

    I know. another pipe dream. Oh well.

  13. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 9:22 am

    Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 9:19 am
    Here’s a Brett Gardner trade that I would find acceptable:

    Gardner + Joba to the Padres for Clayton Richard

  14. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 9:23 am

    # blake December 23rd, 2010 at 9:18 am

    CC is going to be on Mike and Mike this morning.

    MTU,

    If the ChiSox can’t sign Danks to an extension it could happen at some point. I’d take Danks over Cliff Lee right now given their ages and contracts.

    ————————————

    I dont think there is any question (Danks vs Lee). Lee is a better more proven pitcher right now, but Danks is 25…..where was Lee at 25? I thought about Danks more last night after reading that Chicao is worried about being able to ink him longer term and frankly, I would trade Montero for him if thats what it took. Montero + One B.

  15. ac1 December 23rd, 2010 at 9:23 am

    Matt freakin’ Cain. that’s who
    __

    So is Cole Hamels.

  16. YankeeRay December 23rd, 2010 at 9:26 am

    The only way Damon makes sense is if Montero is going down to AAA and Posada is going to be the catcher against righties. This would give the Yanks a better hitting team from a power perspective against righties and they would be strong from the right side against lefties.
    Damon would DH against Righties and be able to pinch hit for gardner late in games but that would leave us weaker in the OF late in games unless the 5th OF is a plus defender.

  17. austinmac December 23rd, 2010 at 9:27 am

    Has the coaching staff been rehired? I have heard nothing but Long and Rothschild.

    Put me down in favor of Damon, but I fear he will go elsewhere for playing time.

  18. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 9:28 am

    Carlo,

    Hes on my “would trade Montero for ” list as well. I don’t think they would trade him now though and by the time they will hopefully Montero will already be entrenched in the Yankee lineup.

    MTU,

    I’m sure Cain is on their radar as he should be.

  19. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 9:29 am

    # ac1 December 23rd, 2010 at 9:23 am

    Matt freakin’ Cain. that’s who
    __

    So is Cole Hamels.

    ———–

    I worry about Hamels…..dont ask me why, I just do. The 2009 season and his comments during the world series were startling to me. The numbers however paint a different story……does it translate to the Al East though and if it doesnt, is he mentally strong enough to avoid implosion? Dont get me wrong, the guy is a great pitcher with tremendous stuff and I would love to have him, but something in my gut worries me about him. That could also be the less than stellar breakfast I had this morning though.

  20. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 9:30 am

    Carlo-

    The White sox don’t need a catcher. They have Flowers and Pierznyski.

    They may not want a 1B. They have Konerko.

    And I doubt they’d turn Montero into a DH.

    They could possibly keep Montero and try to flip Flowers but I’m not sure they’d want to do that.

    One of the B’s would be attractive to most any team though.

    I think they’d be more interested in GGBG. They have Pierre and Quentin in the OF. Pierre is not a youngster.

  21. upstate kate December 23rd, 2010 at 9:32 am

    IIRC, Hamels was a new dad at the end of 2009 regular season…I always wondered if he was just sleep deprived

  22. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 9:32 am

    YankeeRay and Blake –

    Since you both mentioned montero in some capacity, here is my two cents. I dont think he breaks camp with the big league club. I really dont. They arent going to have him ride the pine 5 games a week in NY while Martin catches and if Martin is the starter, as I presume he will be, and Posada is the DH, as I presume he will be, then Montero is in Scranton until something changes (injury, posada not hitting, martin not hitting, etc). I gain more conviction in my belief if Damon is signed.

  23. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Hammels is a surfer boy. Not tough enough for NY.

    Cain is waaaaay better.

    And so is JJ wo I also think in a FA in 2012 or thereabouts.

    It’s all moot thought since Betances and Banuelos will be our backend by then.

    ;)

  24. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Carlo,

    I think he starts out at Scranton and hits his way to NY by May or June.

  25. austinmac December 23rd, 2010 at 9:36 am

    As much as we would like Hamels and Cain to be available, but both are with large market teams and will likely re-sign. Not many top flight pitchers become available anymore. That’s one of the many reasons I was disappointed Greinke went elsewhere.

  26. LGY December 23rd, 2010 at 9:36 am

    Betsy,

    Last night I was not saying I care about you repeating yourself.

    I was saying that you should go back and read what you were saying at the time of the Haren trade for a more honest assessment about how you feel about it.

  27. KPB December 23rd, 2010 at 9:37 am

    MTU

    Morning, did you listen to the Feller audio?

  28. Fran the original December 23rd, 2010 at 9:37 am

    I was rewatching the Martha Stewart show that CG was on this am before work…I really really like him!
    **********************
    Kate,
    Seems like a really is a great guy on and off the field. I like hom too and hope he does really well here.

  29. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 9:37 am

    # MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 9:30 am

    Carlo-

    The White sox don’t need a catcher. They have Flowers and Pierznyski.

    They may not want a 1B. They have Konerko.

    And I doubt they’d turn Montero into a DH.

    They could possibly keep Montero and try to flip Flowers but I’m not sure they’d want to do that.

    One of the B’s would be attractive to most any team though.

    I think they’d be more interested in GGBG. They have Pierre and Quentin in the OF. Pierre is not a youngster.

    ——————————-

    Good points. The one point I would argue is that AJ P is only on a two year contract and Flowers isnt nearly the prospect Montero is. Flowers was a .220 hitter with 121 K’s in 346 at bats in AAA last year. Teams make room for prospects like Montero.

    On the subject of gardner, if kenny williams called and said “if you want danks, give me gardner and one of your B’s”, i would likely forget to answer him prior to slamming the phone down and running to help a B and Brett pack up to move to Chicago. And dont get me wrong, I like Brett a lot, but he isnt worth a 25 year old top of the rotation starter.

  30. Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2010 at 9:38 am

    While I know its less likely I think I’d like Montero to start at the big leagues. Something about getting him in there as early as possible appeals to me. I guess I’d rather him catch games in April and have a little more room for error and more time to correct those errors.

  31. ac1 December 23rd, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Hammels is a surfer boy. Not tough enough for NY.
    ___

    He is playing in PHilly now. pretty big market and big stage.

    As for Philly resigning him, well see. They have a lot of big money committments and still have some holes. No doubt he will be looking for big money….

  32. austinmac December 23rd, 2010 at 9:39 am

    Carlo,

    Agree on Danks. I know his family. Solid people. He would be a great addition.

  33. longtimefan December 23rd, 2010 at 9:42 am

    Lets be honest on some of these moves–Kennedy had an attitude problem, has ability and should do fairly well in NL, maybe could have been a decent 5th in AL but Yankees didn’t like his attitude–Melancon will eventually evolved into a really good reliever, yanks didn’t want to wait, Kearns was a bust plain and simple–Yankees should have went hard after Wood but were waiting on Lee and missed that boat. Not great moves by Cashman last year and even worse this year, certainly no Gene Michaels when it comes to evaluating talent and needs!

  34. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 9:42 am

    KPB-

    I am remiss. I shall try to hear hit though. Been obesssed with the goings on around here.

    All set for Xmas. Hoped you saved up so you can satisfy that Nephew of yours.

    Happy Holidays.

    Carlo-

    Good rebuttal. And I agree about GGBG, etc. In a heartbeat.

    ;)

  35. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 9:44 am

    # ac1 December 23rd, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Hammels is a surfer boy. Not tough enough for NY.
    ___

    He is playing in PHilly now. pretty big market and big stage.

    As for Philly resigning him, well see. They have a lot of big money committments and still have some holes. No doubt he will be looking for big money….

    ——–

    Add to it the fact that Cole’s wife is a former pboy model (i believe), a former contestant on survivor, and an aspiring celebrity…….and i think the “family draw” scenario is far different than that of the Lee’s as it relates to coming to NY.

  36. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 9:44 am

    KPB-

    Please don’t be angry. Give a “Feller” a break.

    ;)

  37. Bad Scooter December 23rd, 2010 at 9:44 am

    Damon makes no sense, unless it’s as only a pinch hitter and leadership. He’s really not a 4th OF at this point. You want your 4th OF to bring a little something defensively. And Jorge is the DH, so Damon doesn’t fit there. What gives?

  38. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 9:45 am

    “On the subject of gardner, if kenny williams called and said “if you want danks, give me gardner and one of your B’s”, i would likely forget to answer him prior to slamming the phone down and running to help a B and Brett pack up to move to Chicago. And dont get me wrong, I like Brett a lot, but he isnt worth a 25 year old top of the rotation starter.”

    yo tambien.

  39. upstate kate December 23rd, 2010 at 9:45 am

    Wood wanted to go back to the Cubbies, left a lot of $$$ on the table to do so

  40. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 9:46 am

    CC on Mike and Mike now.

  41. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 9:46 am

    wood has a lifetime service contract with the Cubs.

  42. pat December 23rd, 2010 at 9:47 am

    CC on Mike and Mike right now.

  43. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 9:47 am

    Carlo-

    I’ll take Danks or Kershaw over Hamels any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

    Can’t comment on the trophy wife on a PG blog.

    ;)

  44. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 9:48 am

    cc like cash and jeter says nothing

  45. Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Has anyone even the slightest idea what Damon would want contract wise?

    Doesn’t seem like its been brought up in the thread though I may have missed it..

  46. KPB December 23rd, 2010 at 9:50 am

    MTU

    I think you’ll enjoy it. It’s pretty funny.

    The nephew will be happy, if not I’ll send him your way for a private hike. But remember, he’s a Yankees fan, so give him some water.

  47. Doreen December 23rd, 2010 at 9:50 am

    The bottom line is the Yankees are going to have to have faith in their pitching prospects, precisely because of what you posted, austinmac. More teams have the money to hold onto their best.

  48. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 9:51 am

    KPB-

    OK. If you insist.

    :)

  49. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Shame,

    I think 1 year 5 million would be the max he could ask for. If he waits it out he might get that from someone.
    ————
    CC said he lost the 15 lbs to take pressure off his knee and to extend his career.

  50. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 9:52 am

    # Bad Scooter December 23rd, 2010 at 9:44 am

    Damon makes no sense, unless it’s as only a pinch hitter and leadership. He’s really not a 4th OF at this point. You want your 4th OF to bring a little something defensively. And Jorge is the DH, so Damon doesn’t fit there. What gives?

    ————————-

    Scooter – i disagree. The pitching staff is weak and doesnt look like it can morph into a strength by April. Under that pretense, we need to load up on the pen and the bench…..we cant have auto outs like Golson in the lineup on a regular basis. Last year, our outfielders missed roughly 75 games in the regular season (rough number but i think its fairly close)……..Kearns/Thames/Golson/Curtis/Winn/Huffman all got starts.

    Factor in Granderson not hitting for a long time, gardner not hitting post his wrist problem, and Swishers knee troubles that he likely rushed back from, and Damon would have gotten even more starts then the 75 i reference above.

    Then add in Posada not having a great year last year, hitting just .248 and .220 in the 2nd half…..and being 39….and transitioning to a DH only role……and there are no guarantees he is productive in 2011.

    I see a lot of value in adding Damon…..none of which mind you relates to leadership and or clubhouse chemistry.

  51. KPB December 23rd, 2010 at 9:54 am

    # MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 9:44 am

    KPB-

    Please don’t be angry. Give a “Feller” a break.

    ;)
    —————————

    I was all set until that last line. So now you Fell…er…I mean you have one more chance. :smile:

  52. Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2010 at 9:54 am

    “More teams have the money to hold onto their best.”

    What will be interesting, Doreen, is how long they can hold onto their best and still be consistently competitive.

  53. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 9:54 am

    all that sounds good carlo but damon wants to play everyday. he is getting near 3000 hits. he also wants money. what’s good for the Yankees is not good enough for johnny

  54. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 9:54 am

    If Damon will accept a bench role for less than 5 million then that’s a no brainer to me. I don’t think he will at this point but if he decided that he wanted to come back to NY and would be ok with a reduced role then there is no question in my mind that he could contribute both on and off the field.

  55. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 9:56 am

    2012 rotation:

    CC
    PH
    MC/JJ
    JD/CK
    Man-Ban

    Whew ! Now that’s a good fantasy.

    :)

  56. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 9:57 am

    “he is getting near 3000 hits. ”

    not really….he’d pretty much need around 150 hits for 3 more seasons to get there. He’s got an outside shot but its not very likely at this point.

  57. The Genius Maker December 23rd, 2010 at 9:58 am

    DAMON HAS NO SPOT ON THIS TEAM

    Chad this post was great showing all the trades in one spot! Nicely done!

  58. Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2010 at 9:58 am

    blake – Thats about what I would expect him to get, though I wonder if he’ll get more or less by waiting things out.

  59. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 9:58 am

    one year at a time for johnny3000…no p/t for him , someone will take him

  60. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 10:01 am

    # mick December 23rd, 2010 at 9:54 am

    all that sounds good carlo but damon wants to play everyday. he is getting near 3000 hits. he also wants money. what’s good for the Yankees is not good enough for johnny

    ————————————

    Im merely commenting on Damon being of good use to the Yankees. I have no reason to believe the yankees are necessarily of good use to Damon. I do not believe we ultimately sign him, but I am firmly of the belief that if we do, there is a role for him and it would be beneficial to the team in 2011.

  61. West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 10:02 am

    If I am not mistaken, the Yankees get another arbitration free year from Montero if they don’t bring him up until after Memorial Day.

  62. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:02 am

    cant see johnny coming here now…too many other nickel and dime deals to do before him…

  63. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 10:03 am

    Telling you – Joba and Gardner for Clayton Richard would be a good deal for both sides.

  64. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 10:04 am

    WCYF-

    Correctamundo.

  65. Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2010 at 10:04 am

    mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:02 am
    cant see johnny coming here now…too many other nickel and dime deals to do before him…

    —————

    I agree mick. Its more likely Johnny just keeps the NY Post on speed dial so he can remind other clubs he’s still out there waiting to be signed.

  66. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:04 am

    i think johnny takes 2-3m to play for tampa or the marlins over us

  67. YankeeRay December 23rd, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Damon is looking for at bats and in 145 games last year he did very little. Giving him alot of at bats is not in our best interest. 300 at bats or so as a DH against RHP serves everyone well.
    That said I don’t think Damon will play here next year.

    I still think we need a RH bat. People keep talking about Thames again but didn’t he sign in Japan?

    Call me crazy but I think Manny for 1 year makes all the sense in the world. He can DH against lefties leaving Posadas weak RH bat on the bench to pinch hit for Martin against a RHP late in the game.
    He can spot start against a RHP in LF letting Gardner come in late for defense. He makes more sense than Vlad or Thome and we still need a bat, isn’t that why we are even talking about Damon?

  68. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 10:05 am

    mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:02 am
    cant see johnny coming here now…too many other nickel and dime deals to do before him…

    —————–

    I’m sorry, I’ve said some silly things in my time, but you need to go sit in the corner for a while for suggesting that the team with the second highest payroll in baseball is cheap.

  69. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 10:06 am

    YankeeRay December 23rd, 2010 at 10:05 am
    Damon is looking for at bats and in 145 games last year he did very little. Giving him alot of at bats is not in our best interest. 300 at bats or so as a DH against RHP serves everyone well.
    That said I don’t think Damon will play here next year.

    I still think we need a RH bat. People keep talking about Thames again but didn’t he sign in Japan?

    Call me crazy but I think Manny for 1 year makes all the sense in the world. He can DH against lefties leaving Posadas weak RH bat on the bench to pinch hit for Martin against a RHP late in the game.
    He can spot start against a RHP in LF letting Gardner come in late for defense. He makes more sense than Vlad or Thome and we still need a bat, isn’t that why we are even talking about Damon?

    ————————

    Crazy.

    I would rather have Andruw Jones than Manny.

  70. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:08 am

    chip

    you’re getting too deep….yanks have spent their big money on who they wanted to overpay for….their goal is to reduce payroll now…i bet they are haggling with Andy as we speak

  71. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:09 am

    the 2nd highest payroll???….not for long

  72. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 10:10 am

    mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:08 am
    chip

    you’re getting too deep….yanks have spent their big money on who they wanted to overpay for….their goal is to reduce payroll now…i bet they are haggling with Andy as we speak

    ————————

    If their goal was to reduce payroll why did they offer Cliff Lee the contract they did? If their goal was to reduce payroll then why sign Russ Martin rather than just let Cervelli and Montero catch for a combined 1 mil this year? If their goal was to reduce payroll why give Derek Jeter a contract that was about 10mil/year above market value?

  73. yankee21 December 23rd, 2010 at 10:10 am

    Damon was a good player for NYY but that was 2 seasons ago. He is a poor fit for this team right now as he is horrible OF and has lost much of his speed. With Posada penciled in as the primary DH,, outside of Johnny excepting a bit role as a PH and occasional DH against RH what purpose would he really serve?

    I just don’t see what role he would play matching up with his likely salary expectations. Could be Cashman driving up the acquisition price for TB.

    No to Johnny part 2.

  74. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:11 am

    like i said chip they will overpay when they HAVE to….all the fringe players they will try to nickel and dime

  75. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 10:11 am

    mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:09 am
    the 2nd highest payroll???….not for long

    —————-

    Go to MLBTradeRumors – they have a list of how much each team has spent thus far this winter – Yankees are 6th on the list.

  76. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:12 am

    Go to MLBTradeRumors – they have a list of how much each team has spent thus far this winter – Yankees are 6th on the list.
    ======================
    thanks for proving my point chipwich

  77. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 10:14 am

    mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:11 am
    like i said chip they will overpay when they HAVE to….all the fringe players they will try to nickel and dime
    ———————-

    That’s because there’s no reason to have a back-up middle infielder making 8 mil a year or to replace Nick Swisher at 9 mil a year with Jayson Werth at 20 mil a year, or Brett Gardner at less than a million with Carl Crawford at $20 mil.

    The Yankees did spend some pretty good money on a couple of role players though – Feliciano and Martin.

  78. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:14 am

    I would rather have Andruw Jones than Manny.
    ==============================
    Cash wants nothing to do with headcases.

  79. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 10:15 am

    mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:12 am
    Go to MLBTradeRumors – they have a list of how much each team has spent thus far this winter – Yankees are 6th on the list.
    ======================
    thanks for proving my point chipwich

    ——————-

    1. Don’t call me chipwich

    2. Spending tons of good money on bad players (which is pretty much what’s left) doesn’t make you a good team. It makes you the Mets. I don’t want to be the Mets.

  80. 108 stitches December 23rd, 2010 at 10:16 am

    If Andy Pettitte doesn’t make a decision between the holidays then Cashman needs to call him, dangle $14M and get a decision one way or another. It’s gone on longer than it should have.
    It only amounts to one final year of being away from his family for some and not all of 8 months and then retirement forever if he chooses. What’s so difficult to decide ?

  81. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:16 am

    The Yankees did spend some pretty good money on a couple of role players though – Feliciano and Martin.
    =========================================
    that’s pennies to them…Hal spends his money carefully unlike Dad.

  82. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:17 am

    1. Don’t call me chipwich

    ===================
    Sorry, Chipster.

  83. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:20 am

    If Andy Pettitte doesn’t make a decision between the holidays then Cashman needs to call him, dangle $14M
    ===============
    They are underestimating Andy. I believe he comes back but if they mess with him over 1-2m, he will cut us loose and play in Texas. He’s done it before, his Dad will step in.

  84. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 10:20 am

    mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:16 am
    The Yankees did spend some pretty good money on a couple of role players though – Feliciano and Martin.
    =========================================
    that’s pennies to them…Hal spends his money carefully unlike Dad.

    ————————

    The Boss made a lot of mistakes in how he spent his money – as I said, spending good money on bad players doesn’t translate into a good team

  85. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 10:22 am

    108 stitches December 23rd, 2010 at 10:16 am
    If Andy Pettitte doesn’t make a decision between the holidays then Cashman needs to call him, dangle $14M and get a decision one way or another. It’s gone on longer than it should have.
    It only amounts to one final year of being away from his family for some and not all of 8 months and then retirement forever if he chooses. What’s so difficult to decide ?

    ————————–

    I think the Yankees just need to proceed as if Andy’s not coming back.

    I’m sure that Brian has told him “Andy, I’m giving you space to make up your mind, you know we want you back and when you’re ready to make a decision, let me know and you know the contract will be there.”

  86. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:23 am

    spending good money on bad players doesn’t translate into a good team
    ==============================================
    this is true which is why they are trying to not overpay where they can esp for marginal players which is all that’s out there.

  87. Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2010 at 10:23 am

    To get John Danks the Yankees might have to take on salary-Alex Rios?

    Chip- The Red Sox spending didn’t even include the $$$$ for A-Gone that they will need to spend to sign him to an extension.

  88. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:24 am

    I think if Andy says 16m , they go 12 + incentives.

  89. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 10:26 am

    mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:23 am
    spending good money on bad players doesn’t translate into a good team
    ==============================================
    this is true which is why they are trying to not overpay where they can esp for marginal players which is all that’s out there.

    ———————-

    That’s right – so why are you calling them cheap? Not overspending for marginal players isn’t cheap, it’s just sound business.

  90. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 10:28 am

    Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2010 at 10:23 am
    To get John Danks the Yankees might have to take on salary-Alex Rios?

    ——————–

    Rios had a huge bounce back after going to Chicago – why would they move him? If they’re going to try and dump any salary it would be Carlos Quentin or Juan Pierre.

    Personally I would have no issue with Gardner, Joba and a low minors guy for Peavy and Quentin.

  91. randy l. December 23rd, 2010 at 10:32 am

    …looking like cashman gets a big lump of coal this christmas.

    how did the yankees get in this position with starters?

    not good.

  92. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:35 am

    go get Andy and all is not lost

  93. Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Quentin and Peavy are injury prone and Quentin had 8 errors in the OF last year. Why so anxious to include gardner in a deal?

  94. West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 10:36 am

    The Yankees spend, they just spend on the wrong players all too often. As an example, last year they dropped $27 million dollars on the following guys.

    Nick Johnson, Javy Vazquez, Randy Winn, Kei Igama, Damasao Marte and Chan Ho Park.

    (by the way, Marte is a perfect example why you don’t sign relief pitchers to three-year deals unless you absolutely are forced to)

  95. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 10:36 am

    never used the word chip, cheap err…cheap chip

  96. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 10:36 am

    randy l. December 23rd, 2010 at 10:32 am
    …looking like cashman gets a big lump of coal this christmas.

    how did the yankees get in this position with starters?

    not good.

    ———————

    Cliff Lee said no
    Andy got to the age where one starts thinking of retiring
    Ted Lilly, Josh Beckett, Roy Halladay all got signed to long term deals before Free Agency started.
    Brandon Webb, Jeremy Bonderman, Chris Young, Jeff Francis all got hurt
    Javier Vazquez melted.

    Really not any of it can be laid at Cashman’s feet.

  97. Bad Scooter December 23rd, 2010 at 10:37 am

    Thanks Carlo

  98. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 10:38 am

    Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2010 at 10:35 am
    Quentin and Peavy are injury prone and Quentin had 8 errors in the OF last year. Why so anxious to include gardner in a deal?

    ——————–

    We’ve had this discussion before. I’m not anxious to include Gardner in a deal; but I feel Gardner has the most trade value of anyone the Yankees would be willing to include in a deal.

    He’s young, cheap, proven at the ML level, but he’s not irreplaceable like a Cano or Hughes.

  99. Bronx Jeers December 23rd, 2010 at 10:38 am

    I’m starting to suspect that this whole off season was nothing more than a conspiracy designed to try and keep the Yanks out of the postseason.

    Lee/Braunecker are Oswald/Ruby

  100. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 10:40 am

    West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 10:36 am
    The Yankees spend, they just spend on the wrong players all too often. As an example, last year they dropped $27 million dollars on the following guys.

    Nick Johnson, Javy Vazquez, Randy Winn, Kei Igama, Damasao Marte and Chan Ho Park.

    (by the way, Marte is a perfect example why you don’t sign relief pitchers to three-year deals unless you absolutely are forced to)

    —————————

    actually Marte’s a perfect example as to why the WBC sucks. Asking pitchers to amp it up without a spring training leads to injuries.

    Cashman’s not going to get them all right – but he builds a playoff club/championship contender every year.

  101. Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2010 at 10:40 am

    I’m starting to suspect that this whole off season was nothing more than a conspiracy designed to try and keep the Yanks out of the postseason.

    Lee/Braunecker are Oswald/Ruby
    ————————————————————-
    If that’s the case Lee better watch his back!

  102. West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Chip. Don’t you think a General Manager should have been be far more prepared than Cashman was for those eventualities? It was always a possibility that Pettitte would retire and Lee might go elsewhere. It seems like he didn’t give it much thought and then got caught with his pants down. Sometimes studying for finals the night before isn’t the best option.

  103. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Vazquez busting probably messed up a lot of backup plans they had in place for this year.

  104. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 10:43 am

    WCYF – regardless of you thinking he is “prepared” or not… what was there to do? He does not have a magic wand.

    Sometimes expecting improvements in every roster spot in the offseason is unrealistic.

  105. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 10:46 am

    Assuming a lack of action equates to a lack of effort is wrong.

  106. West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 10:48 am

    ID – I’m speaking of the rotation, not every roster spot. It should have been clear to Cashman well before the end of the year that Vazquez was not the answer and would be gone, that Pettitte might retire and that Lee could go elsewhere.

  107. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 10:50 am

    WCYF – That would be the reason why they tried to (and had ACCEPTED offers from both teams on the table) trade for Lee and Greinke mid-season. What else do you want him to do? He can’t force teams or players to do what he wants.

    Just blindly complaining about it with no solution present doesn’t help.

  108. Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2010 at 10:51 am

    I think its pretty amusing when people ask questions like “Did Cash even consider X, Y, Z” as if thats not, ya know, his job or anything.

  109. upstate kate December 23rd, 2010 at 10:51 am

    if it is obvious to all of mlb that the Yankees needed SP this off season, why wouldn’t it be obvious to Cash?

  110. randy l. December 23rd, 2010 at 10:52 am

    “Really not any of it can be laid at Cashman’s feet.”

    not only is he getting a lump of coal from santa,now he’s impotent and powerless.

    rough year for the little elf.

  111. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Nice post Chad.

    As far as Damon is concerned, if this were just for Erica, I’d say sign him. But otherwise, he offers no defensive flexibility as he’s limited to LF and can no longer play CF except in a dire emergency. His range is shot, his arm has always been, and in the last 2 years, his speed has significantly decreased as he’s stolen only 12 and 11 bases respectively- though we know he is a smart base stealer.

    I’d rather take my chances with Marcus Thames, Lastings Milledge, or Reed Johnson as the 4th OF.

  112. Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 10:53 am

    Carl Pavano. Forgive and Forget. Let’s All Be Grown-Ups.

    As the man said, when you ain’t got nothin’ you got nothin’ to lose.

  113. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Shame – They would have you convinced that Cashman sat there waiting for the phone to ring, with Lee on the other end. This man is busy busy busy… but sometimes you just have to solve your problems internally.

    If Vazquez had not imploded, that would have left Cashman with a very signable FA pitcher to throw into the staff to back up the Lee plan… unfortunately there is another pitcher, but the Yankee’s can’t sign him for obvious reasons (Pavano, unless he decides to come pitch for free for 2 years).

    They have enough high end talent in the minors to get through one year with a raw rookie #5 starter. I don’t believe for a second that with the situation as it is they will let Pettitte stay retired and not throw the checkbook at him.

  114. West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 10:55 am

    ID – You said above “assuming a lack of action equates to a lack of effort is wrong”. I never said Cashman didn’t try, of course he does. I am questioning his judgment and abilities, that goes with the territory when you are the boss. I also am not “blindly complaining”. I am making a reasoned judgment like we all do based on what he has done or not done.

    In any event, Cashman admitted he did a poor job last off-season and I am sure if things don’t change he will say the same about this off-season. I think Cashman is honest when appraising his own as a General Manager

  115. West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 10:57 am

    sic – appraising his own performance

  116. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 10:57 am

    What bench player is without flaws? If they didn’t have flaws they wouldnt be bench players. If he’d accept a bench role then Damon brings as much or more to the table than any other 4th oufielder/bench bat out there…..problem is that he likely wont accept that role right now.

    I would take Quentin on if Danks is coming back but not Peavy.

  117. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 10:59 am

    West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 10:42 am
    Chip. Don’t you think a General Manager should have been be far more prepared than Cashman was for those eventualities? It was always a possibility that Pettitte would retire and Lee might go elsewhere. It seems like he didn’t give it much thought and then got caught with his pants down. Sometimes studying for finals the night before isn’t the best option.

    ——————————

    What would you have liked him to do differently?

    He tried to trade for Roy Halladay before last year, it didn’t happen.

    He tried to trade for Cliff Lee midseason – it didn’t happen (and even if it had happened there’s no assurance Cliff would have stayed in New York)

    The asking price on guys like Haren and Greinke was prohibitive

    His top pitching prospects are moving as quickly as they can

    You can prepare for a storm for weeks – at the end of the day though you just have to ride it out. That’s what Cash is doing.

  118. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Merry Christmas from “Killer” and the Yankees.

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....p?c_id=nyy

  119. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 11:02 am

    blake – The general rule of thumb is that your bench players are supposed to be either strong defensively, or be powerful enough to pinch hit when you need a HR. Damon does not fill either of those roles. The Yankees certainly don’t need to him to pretend to steal a base in a late inning.

    That being said, for under $5mil… he would be fine for the bench. I just don’t see him accepting a role with no guaranteed playing time.

  120. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 10:53 am
    Carl Pavano. Forgive and Forget. Let’s All Be Grown-Ups.

    As the man said, when you ain’t got nothin’ you got nothin’ to lose.

    ————————–

    If Brian Cashman brought Pavano back here I think many of his players would revolt. They view the guy as a loafer who cashed his checks and then partied in Tampa while the rest of them were trying to win games.

    Pavano is seeking a 3 or 4 year deal and any team would be nuts to give it to him. Carl needs to come into each season with the threat of being unsigned the next winter hanging over his head.

  121. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 11:02 am
    blake – The general rule of thumb is that your bench players are supposed to be either strong defensively, or be powerful enough to pinch hit when you need a HR. Damon does not fill either of those roles. The Yankees certainly don’t need to him to pretend to steal a base in a late inning.

    That being said, for under $5mil… he would be fine for the bench. I just don’t see him accepting a role with no guaranteed playing time.

    ———-

    I tend to agree – the only way Damon makes sense is if the Yankees trade Gardner.

  122. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 11:03 am

    The asking price on guys like Haren and Greinke was prohibitive

    The royals had accepted a trade, Greinke shot it down.

  123. West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 11:05 am

    Chip. No one can speak to the day by day efforts that transpired in Cashman’s office since last July. Not all are public and it’s impossible to know. So to ask what he should have done is hard to answer. What can be said, is that for whatever reason he failed to some extent. With the understanding the off-season is not over and that a trade might still happen.

    That’s what leadership is all about, results not excuses. And before anyone starts pointing out the success Cashman’s clubs have had in the post season, I am talking just about this off-season and the rotation problems we find ourselves stuck with. I don’t hate Cashman or think he is anywhere close to the worst GM in baseball.

  124. Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2010 at 11:05 am

    ID – Preachin’ to the mother****in choir man.

    I think Damon wanting a starting role/certain number of at-bats is a bit overblown. If he came to the Yanks, yes, he’d be the 4th outfielder but the season is SO long and so much can happen, one injury and Johnny could end up being our starting LFer. And now I’m gonna go shudder at that thought for a while, in the fetal position…

  125. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 11:06 am

    Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 11:03 am
    The asking price on guys like Haren and Greinke was prohibitive

    The royals had accepted a trade, Greinke shot it down.

    ———————–

    Sorry, I meant this winter’s offer

  126. Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 11:06 am

    “The asking price on guys like Haren and Greinke was prohibitive”

    I can’t see any argument that Patrick Corbin, Rafael Rodriguez, Joe Saunders and Tyler Skaggs was an exorbitant price for Haren.

    Cashman missed the boat on Haren, there’s no point in sugar-coating it. Probably because he misjudged how signable Lee would be.

  127. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 11:08 am

    WCYF,

    How can it be an eventuality that Cliff Lee decides to leave money and years on the table and returns to a team that traded for him then traded him in mid-eason?

    That’s like saying it’s an eventuality that you and your ex-wife twice removed are going to get back together AND live in the house that she won from you in the divorce proceedings where she lived with the husband she married after you.

  128. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 11:08 am

    How can you plan for that?

  129. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 11:09 am

    # blake December 23rd, 2010 at 10:57 am

    What bench player is without flaws? If they didn’t have flaws they wouldnt be bench players. If he’d accept a bench role then Damon brings as much or more to the table than any other 4th oufielder/bench bat out there…..problem is that he likely wont accept that role right now.

    I would take Quentin on if Danks is coming back but not Peavy.

    ——————————–

    I would take on Quentin and/or Rios…..I would take on Peavy too…..but if they were to let go of Danks, they wouldnt let go of peavy as well. Then they seriously limit their ability to compete.

  130. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 11:10 am

    ID,

    I don’t think he would either….I do think in YS he would be a good pinch hit though. There really are very few great bench option available for a team like the Yankees with their starters well entrenched at their positions. Also, while Damon is far from a good defender at this point….I think the degree of liability he is is overstated, especially if he isn’t playing every day and can rest his legs. He can’t throw but he never could. Highly unlikely to happen ….Im just saying if he would accept a bench role then the Yankees could do worse for 3 or 4 million.

  131. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 11:10 am

    To All:

    Teams and players ask more from the Yankees than they do from any other organization.
    What one team accepts in a trade for a player is different from what they ask from the Yankees for that same player. It’s been proven over and over and over.

  132. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 11:11 am

    # DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 11:08 am

    That’s like saying it’s an eventuality that you and your ex-wife twice removed are going to get back together AND live in the house that she won from you in the divorce proceedings where she lived with the husband she married after you.

    —————————–

    I got dizzy trying to understand this. Bottom line is, I cant see you taking her back….there is no way she improved after all that time off and the stress of her second divorce.

  133. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 11:11 am

    WYH – Joe Saunders was the piece that could not be matched. They wanted a major league starter, and the Yankee’s at the time had Vazquez/Burnett/the beginnings of Hughes imploding, this did not allow the Yankees that flexibility. They needed to ADD a starter, not replace one with a slightly better one.

    Also, trying to figure out why the Diamondbacks did or did not make a deal when their GM was fired for the deals he did is an exercise in futility.

  134. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 11:11 am

    West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 11:05 am
    Chip. No one can speak to the day by day efforts that transpired in Cashman’s office since last July. Not all are public and it’s impossible to know. So to ask what he should have done is hard to answer. What can be said, is that for whatever reason he failed to some extent. With the understanding the off-season is not over and that a trade might still happen.

    That’s what leadership is all about, results not excuses. And before anyone starts pointing out the success Cashman’s clubs have had in the post season, I am talking just about this off-season and the rotation problems we find ourselves stuck with. I don’t hate Cashman or think he is anywhere close to the worst GM in baseball.

    —————–

    I agree – A for Effort is all well and good in school, but not so much in the real world. I just am willing to accept that even in baseball there are sometimes things that happen that you can’t do anything about.

    Based on the rumors (and that’s all we have to go on) Brian has kicked every tire he could kick to find something that would fit and nothing has. I don’t want him to go out there and make a bad move for the sake of making a move.

    People want him to deal for Felix or Johnson – this isn’t a video game, you can’t just propose trades for players and have them go through – the other teams need to want to do a deal and as of now those two guys in particular are not on the market.

    The Yankees didn’t want to make this latest Greinke deal because they’re not sure he’s going to be able to handle New York any better than Javy Vazquez did. They gave up nothing for Vazquez so the risk was minimal, giving up three of your better prospects for a question mark in Greinke ups the risk ante to a place where obviously Cash was uncomfortable.

    Brian can’t control what pitchers are on the market, he can’t control what pitchers are available via trade – all he can do is what he is doing – see what is out there that makes sense, hope Andy decides he wants to pitch some more, and not panic.

  135. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 11:12 am

    The asking price on Greinke was prohibitive. The asking price on Haren was not but the need wasn’t as great at that time either.

  136. West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 11:13 am

    DaSaint. Clearly, Cashman assuming Lee would sign here was a mistake in judgment on his part. That is just a fact.

  137. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 11:14 am

    DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 11:10 am
    To All:

    Teams and players ask more from the Yankees than they do from any other organization.
    What one team accepts in a trade for a player is different from what they ask from the Yankees for that same player. It’s been proven over and over and over.

    ——————–

    I’m half with you – I think the players tend to ask for more coin from the Yankees then they would from other teams.

    I think we view teams as asking for more from the Yankees in trades because, as Yankee fans, we have an inflated opinion about Yankee prospects.

    To a Boston fan the idea of the Yankees getting Lee for Montero, Nova, Adams and McAllister probably seemed like a steal, much the way we view their trade for Gonzalez as a steal.

  138. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 11:15 am

    West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 11:13 am
    DaSaint. Clearly, Cashman assuming Lee would sign here was a mistake in judgment on his part. That is just a fact.
    ————————————–
    WCYF,

    Then EVERY GM that fails to land a FA after offering them a contract makes that same mistake in judgement, wouldn’t you say?

  139. Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 11:15 am

    ID-

    The Yanks didn’t engage. Arizona was out of it, Joe Saunders is nothing special. Cashman could have done a deal if he wanted to but at the time it wasn’t clear where AJ would end up, Vazquez was looking better, Andy wasn’t hurt and Cashman thought he could get Lee in the off-season.

  140. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 11:15 am

    Carlo,

    I got dizzy after writing it.

  141. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 11:16 am

    # DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 11:10 am

    To All:

    Teams and players ask more from the Yankees than they do from any other organization.
    What one team accepts in a trade for a player is different from what they ask from the Yankees for that same player. It’s been proven over and over and over.

    ——————————–

    I am as big a conspiracy theorist as anyone…….I constantly think umpires, league officials, and the world is out to screw the yankees. That said, i really dont agree with this statement. It has been echoed time and time again…….but the fact is it is simply not true.

    Because KC trades Greinke to Milwaukee and we think the package is inferior to one we would have been able to deal doesnt make it so. We turned down the greinke deal by all accounts.

    The way Yankee fans value our prospects is very different from how other teams value our prospects. Add to it the fact that we simply do not know what other teams actually asked us for in deals and we do not know what they feel their needs are in trades….and the speculation that we always get screwed simply doesnt hold water.

    If you are a rival GM……why would you screw the yankees in trades? Think about it. Do you really want to burn a bridge that one day can help you by taking a monster contract off your books when you need them to? Dont you always want to get the best players in return…..and by best players i mean the ones that best fit into your teams future? The theory of us getting jammed up in trades and acting like that is a universal fact simply doesnt make sense.

    Now, when it comes to free agents, I totally agree……we have to pay more…..but thats our own fault because we have shown historically we are always willing to do so.

  142. AldotheApache December 23rd, 2010 at 11:16 am

    That’s like saying it’s an eventuality that you and your ex-wife twice removed are going to get back together AND live in the house that she won from you in the divorce proceedings where she lived with the husband she married after you.

    ————–

    DaSaint,

    Priceless analogy.

    LMAO!

  143. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 11:16 am

    I can’t imagine that Cashman actually assumed that Lee would sign here. The only thing he could know would be that he would be coming to the table with the largest and longest deal…

    That was true, and Cliff didn’t want it. More money and more years is the tried and true way of attracting free agents, you can’t really blame Cashman for assuming that would continue to work.

  144. LGY December 23rd, 2010 at 11:17 am

    DaSaint. Clearly, Cashman assuming Lee would sign here was a mistake in judgment on his part. That is just a fact.

    *******

    People on here completely misunderstand the thought process behind the plan for Lee.

    It was never assumed Lee would sign here.

    However, to have the money and ability to commit to Lee the Yankees decided it was worth the risk to end up in this situation.

    It was a significant risk with a huge reward.

    A calculous not a single Yankee fan had a problem with until it didn’t work out.

  145. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 11:18 am

    Chip – seems our views are identical on yankees in trades…..somehow you said it in about 300 less words than i did. i really need to learn how to type less and say more.

  146. Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 11:18 am

    The fact that Cashman publicly stated a reason that the Yanks didn’t want to trade for Greinke does not mean that the Yanks were correct not to engage the Royals to attempt to land him.

  147. West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 11:18 am

    Chip you made many good observations there. Any talk about King Felix or Johnson was/is preposterous. I just don’t think Cashman shows good judgment sometimes in evaluating what players to go after and in this case succeeding in anticipating and planning for this rotation problem.

    And it’s not just a quantitative problem it’s a qualitative one as well because of AJ Burnett. We basically have two starters that we can reasonably assume are dependable in Sabathia and Hughes.

  148. Bronx Jeers December 23rd, 2010 at 11:22 am

    I am as big a conspiracy theorist as anyone…….I constantly think umpires, league officials, and the world is out to screw the yankees.

    —————————————————————————————————————

    :shock:

  149. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 11:22 am

    WYH – But they did engage the Royals, we know for a fact that the asking price was Montero+. We also know that is a terrible idea.

  150. Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 11:23 am

    LGY-

    I have to disagree with you to some extent. I think the Yanks misjudged the market for Lee – I think we all did. Had Cashman realized how dicey the process would become I don’t think he would have offered Montero in a trade to get Lee for three months.

    I don’t blame Cashman for it, however. As I said yesterday it was a gamble that didn’t work out but made perfect sense.

  151. Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 11:24 am

    “We also know that is a terrible idea.”

    We know nothing of the sort.

  152. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 11:24 am

    # West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 11:18 am

    And it’s not just a quantitative problem it’s a qualitative one as well because of AJ Burnett. We basically have two starters that we can reasonably assume are dependable in Sabathia and Hughes.

    ———————————-

    Lets not get carried away on the AJ Burnett mistake. The knock when AJ came here was 1) cant stay healthy and 2) inconsistent.

    Through two full seasons, he has given us a hair under 200 innings per year. Yes, he was terrible last year and bad in stretched in 2009…..but the bottom line is, in 2009 he was a major contributor to a Championship team. I would argue then that the decision to bring in Burnett was not a mistake.

    Prior to the contract, if someone said the following:

    “you can sign AJ Burnett, you will win one title during his 5 year contract and he will be a key cog in that team, but he will be a problem the other 4 years and you will have to carry his contract and live with him as a back of the rotation starter”

    What would you have responded?

  153. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 11:26 am

    # Bronx Jeers December 23rd, 2010 at 11:22 am

    I am as big a conspiracy theorist as anyone…….I constantly think umpires, league officials, and the world is out to screw the yankees.

    —————————————————————————————————————

    :shock:

    ———————————–

    I never understood what the big eyes emoticon meant.

  154. AldotheApache December 23rd, 2010 at 11:27 am

    The last time I remember the Yankees having only two reliable starters … Two otter starters had never pitched in the big leagues and a third was coming off a serious injury … They only won 125 games that year.

    Ya never know with pitching. Specially this time of the year … THREE MONTHS before opening day.

  155. randy l. December 23rd, 2010 at 11:27 am

    the first step for cashman to take is to do something to make him look less desperate because in any negotiation right now the other side is thinking he’s desperate whether he is or not.

    that leverage needs to be taken away.

    one step to do that is to put joba in the rotation.

    if the us national security director doesn’t know when a major terrorist event happens like happened a few days ago ,it is very likely that some gm doesn’t know that cashman has buried joba and wouldn’t really start him.

    the point is cashman has to add joba, who does have a big name, to the starting rotation.
    here’s the spin:
    joba got beat out by the 18 game winner phil hughes last spring and now it’s joba’s turn to win 15 plus games.
    larry rothschild has spent a week with joba and discovered a flaw( no need to tell folks about the lobotomy the yankees had joba get)

    the point is now the yankees have another starter .

    every little bit helps.

    unless of course brian cashman is going to pout about lee and go into a funk for a few months while everything dries up with starting pitchers.

  156. AldotheApache December 23rd, 2010 at 11:28 am

    sp “other”

  157. West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Carlo – I’m discussing the current rotation in 2011 not the signing of Burnett. Based on AJ’s performance last year, his ability to contribute is in doubt.

  158. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 11:29 am

    The reports are that the Yankees talked to the Royals at the winter meetings and they asked for the moon and then the Yankees never followed up…..what we don’t know is if they had kept in touch if the price would have dropped.

  159. Erin December 23rd, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Happy Festivus everyone :)

  160. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 11:30 am

    I can’t blame Cashman for thinking, this year or last year, that if he put the largest and longest deal on the table that Lee would turn it down. If he didn’t believe that his tried and true weapons (pen+checkbook) were enough to land the biggest fish in the sea, he wouldn’t be a GM. It would be like walking into a knife fight with a concealed gun, and the gun backfiring and killing you while in your pocket.

    I don’t believe for a second that Lee was even thinking about coming to the Yankees after being traded to the Rangers. It is always easier for a player to make a decision to go back to a place he is familiar with.

    Look at the entire negotiation process. The Yankees stepped up to the plate day 1 with the largest and longest offer, and then even added an extra year after the Crawford deal went down… what did Cliff do? He went to the Rangers and said “if you add this, I will sign here”. At no point did he do that with the Yankees. As soon as the Phillies made him an offer, he took it. Again, without ever going to the Yankees and saying “hey, if you want me… it will now cost this”.

    He wasn’t even trying to drive the price up on himself in the end. He played the Yankees and Rangers off of each other, and then threw it all out and took the Phillies deal without bouncing it off of anyone. We can’t be upset about this.

  161. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 11:30 am

    # West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Carlo – I’m discussing the current rotation in 2011 not the signing of Burnett. Based on AJ’s performance last year, his ability to contribute is in doubt.

    ————————–

    Must have misread it….my bad. Agree, I am firmly on record saying bluntly that on paper, this rotation stinks. I wont back down from that regardless of how many people jump all over me for it.

  162. Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Just curious to see what you guys think: Could Joba win 10 games (or more) as a starter for the Yankees in 2011?

  163. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 11:32 am

    also, we have all jumped the shark with our analogies today. our 5th grade english teachers would be proud.

  164. upstate kate December 23rd, 2010 at 11:33 am

    I liked “otter” better, I had a cute picture in my mind of otters playing baseball

  165. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 11:33 am

    Carlo,

    I hear your argument. Don’t necessarily agress, but I hear you. Certainly I will agree that in the FA market we do get screwed, and that’s one of the things I think Cashman and the organization are finally trying to change. I don’t expect the NYY to be the biggest spenders all the time going forward.

  166. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 11:34 am

    # Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Look at the entire negotiation process. The Yankees stepped up to the plate day 1 with the largest and longest offer, and then even added an extra year after the Crawford deal went down… what did Cliff do? He went to the Rangers and said “if you add this, I will sign here”. At no point did he do that with the Yankees. As soon as the Phillies made him an offer, he took it. Again, without ever going to the Yankees and saying “hey, if you want me… it will now cost this”.

    He wasn’t even trying to drive the price up on himself in the end. He played the Yankees and Rangers off of each other, and then threw it all out and took the Phillies deal without bouncing it off of anyone. We can’t be upset about this.

    ——-

    Agree, there is nothing we could have done, barring some 50% above market deal that likely would have gotten him here……..but in reading your outline of the decision period, do you not come to the conclusion at some point that Cashman should have read the writing on the wall and said “offer expires on x date and we move forward”? By waiting, he basically let philly get their ducks in a row and do it……and he also narrowed our window of opportunity to make other moves at more reasonable prices (ex desperation premium). Agree that had he done so, Lee would have gone to Texas…..but the fact remains, Cashman seemingly didnt have a good feel of where Lee’s head was.

  167. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 11:34 am

    Shame – I’m convinced that a dead monkey can win 10 games as a Yankee starter given enough innings. Burnett and Vazquez both did last year.

  168. Mike Ri December 23rd, 2010 at 11:34 am

    Just curious to see what you guys think: Could Joba win 10 games (or more) as a starter for the Yankees in 2011?


    Yes ,, but it won’t happen.

  169. RayVT December 23rd, 2010 at 11:35 am

    IMO, the Yankees are in a catch 22 position. The guys they can trade are ultimately the guys they need & very soon.

    Nunez is the heir apparent to Jeter. A SS on FA or Trade market is really exorbitant!

    Montero is the heir apparent to Posada/Martin. A C on FA or Trade market is even worse than a SS.!

    Gardner/Granderson/Swisher are needed in the OF now. So trading one of them requires bringing someone of equal value back to the Yanks!

    Lastly, Laird is a guy that provides some pop and is slated to play 3B IMO with ARod moving to DH in 2012. So trading him would be difficult.

    And everyone knows the Yanks need Pitching! Killer B’s may be the best answer along with Nova/Noesi.

    This is a tough spot! It feels like major contract dumps from someone to get someone needed by Yanks is only viable path!

  170. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 11:36 am

    # DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 11:33 am

    Carlo,

    I hear your argument. Don’t necessarily agress, but I hear you. Certainly I will agree that in the FA market we do get screwed, and that’s one of the things I think Cashman and the organization are finally trying to change. I don’t expect the NYY to be the biggest spenders all the time going forward.

    ——————–

    Better to be the smartest spenders with a little extra dough to throw around then simply the biggest spenders anyway.

  171. 108 stitches December 23rd, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Prior to the contract, if someone said the following:

    “you can sign AJ Burnett, you will win one title during his 5 year contract and he will be a key cog in that team, but he will be a problem the other 4 years and you will have to carry his contract and live with him as a back of the rotation starter”

    What would you have responded?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    It’s time that Burnett earned the balance of his $82M contract. One game under .500 with a combined 4.65 for 2 years of work isn’t what he was signed for.
    Let’s see if Rothschild can make something out of him.

  172. Mike Ri December 23rd, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Ray TV –

    What about Jose Reyes ???

  173. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2010 at 11:30 am
    Just curious to see what you guys think: Could Joba win 10 games (or more) as a starter for the Yankees in 2011?

    ——————-

    Current Joba – no, not a shot in hades because he doesn’t want it enough to work for it.

    If they could ever find a way to get Joba motivated again, like he was when he shot through the system in 2007…well then he would easily be the most talented option for the fifth starter spot.

  174. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 11:38 am

    # 108 stitches December 23rd, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Prior to the contract, if someone said the following:

    “you can sign AJ Burnett, you will win one title during his 5 year contract and he will be a key cog in that team, but he will be a problem the other 4 years and you will have to carry his contract and live with him as a back of the rotation starter”

    What would you have responded?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    It’s time that Burnett earned the balance of his $82M contract. One game under .500 with a combined 4.65 for 2 years of work isn’t what he was signed for.
    Let’s see if Rothschild can make something out of him.

    ——————————————

    Would be significantly more comforting from m perspective if he was trying to earn it while slating in as the 5th starter come April.

  175. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 11:40 am

    *fantasy trade alert*

    Let’s say Cashman calls up Kenny Williams and says : Ill give you Montero, Gardner, and Betances for Danks and Rios…..who hangs up first or do they have a conversation?

  176. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 11:40 am

    On AJ….

    I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He had an awful year but it would appear that there were things transpiring behind the scenes that contributed to that awful year and are no longer at issue.

    As Carlo said – one knock on AJ was his health and that hasn’t been a problem at all, the other issue was his inconsistency on the mound which was compounded last year by those apparent distractions.

    If he can bounce back to where he was in ’09 then he’s a very solid #3 for the rotation.

  177. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 11:41 am

    Carlo – As you said, I think it would just result in Cashman posturing for no reason. If having a larger and longer deal wasn’t enough, adding a deadline isn’t going to help sway the decision in the Yankees favor.

    “What? OK, well screw you I’m going to texas then” would be the approximate feeling I would have as Lee with a deadline added.

    Texas was a very real option for Cliff, even with their 5 year offer. He and his agent played the situation perfectly… they had the Rangers scrambling to put pieces together.

  178. Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 11:41 am

    randy-

    You may be right but as a fan I’d rather the Yanks gave the starting opportunities to Nova/Phelps/Mitchell/Noesi/Brackman than go back to the Joba well again.

    Win or lose, I think it would be fun to watch those guys.

  179. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2010 at 11:30 am
    Just curious to see what you guys think: Could Joba win 10 games (or more) as a starter for the Yankees in 2011?

    ——————-

    Current Joba – no, not a shot in hades because he doesn’t want it enough to work for it.

    ———————

    It seems as though everyone has forgotten what unfolded 10 months ago. Joba was told, along with Hughes and others, to come to camp prepared to battle for the 5th starters spot. He showed up 20+lbs heavier in the worst shape of his Yankee career.

    Why do people ignore this? He needs to be held accountable. I am not saying he is in the permanent penalty box because of this, but how dont people pick up on the fact that this was a clear indication of his willingness to be a starter and to be a great one?

  180. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 11:42 am

    blake December 23rd, 2010 at 11:40 am
    *fantasy trade alert*

    Let’s say Cashman calls up Kenny Williams and says : Ill give you Montero, Gardner, and Betances for Danks and Rios…..who hangs up first or do they have a conversation?

    —————–

    Williams.

    Blake – I like the train of thought but two prospects and Brett Gardner aren’t getting the Yankees a young ace on the rise and Rios coming off a bounce back season.

  181. austinmac December 23rd, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Cashman did, I believe, let his hope and belief he would sign Lee keep him from other moves. It clearly is risky to bet a free agent will sign with you, particularly when, unlike CC, the offer didn’t blow everyone else out of the water.

    I wonder about the so-called Yankee tax on trades. Why would a team do that? We have heard what the Royals supposdely wanted for Greinke. We don’t know if that was their first offer. We certainly don’t know if their were negotiations after that or whether he could have been acquired for less.

    I suspect the Yankees are overvalue their propects. I know many on the board do. For every ten highly valued prosects, you probably get 1-2 good players.

  182. RayVT December 23rd, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Mike Ri December 23rd, 2010 at 11:37 am

    LOL! Jose Reyes will require large sums of money to get! The Red Sox will go hard after him IMO. So will several other teams. He will be expensive and I question his ability to stay healthy for all that expense. Great talent & potential though!

  183. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Chip,
    agreed. Rios’s contract really isn’t that bad….especially with what’s happened this offseason. Kenny Williams is unpredicatable….if the ChiSox aren’t in the race come July Id be calling him nonstop.

  184. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Let’s say Cashman calls up Kenny Williams and says : Ill give you Montero, Gardner, and Betances for Danks and Rios…..who hangs up first or do they have a conversation?

    —————————————-

    First off if Cashman is calling him, it would be really strange if he called, proposed that trade, then hung up on him……unless that is Cashman is one of the Jerky Boys.

    Kidding aside…..I dont think Cashman makes that call……with the package you are proposing, I dont feel taking on Rios for 3 years at $13 mm a year is required on our part. That said, he fills the left field void and Danks is cheap so we fill two holes for $15 mm and it makes sense. Boils down to the value of Rios as a player I guess. If the Yanks think he still has potential, it makes a ton of sense on both sides. I wouldnt start with rios in the conversation though if i were cashman,……i would leave that as my deal sweetener.

  185. West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Erin December 23rd, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Happy Festivus everyone :)

    *********************

    Easy there Erin. This blog is no place for The Airing of Grievances. Doesn’t it start with “I’ve got a lot of problems with you people!”

  186. Crawdaddy December 23rd, 2010 at 11:46 am

    “You may be right but as a fan I’d rather the Yanks gave the starting opportunities to Nova/Phelps/Mitchell/Noesi/Brackman than go back to the Joba well again.”

    It’s the likely scenario despite Randy’s preference.

  187. RayVT December 23rd, 2010 at 11:46 am

    blake December 23rd, 2010 at 11:40 am

    Williams asks for more!

  188. P December 23rd, 2010 at 11:47 am

    I agree the current state of the Yankees rotation is very bad.. I wouldn’t say it stinks because even chacon and small at one point solidified the rotation. nothing short of miraculous.

    I think we will end up with a quality SP before ST one way or another. if we don’t I’ll still wait before I say this rotation stinks.. maybe we will be forced to let the kids have at it and at least that will be fun to watch..

    question.. Why after Clemens left did joba fall apart? I’m not assuming anything but when that boy hot the ball the aggressiveness he showed on the mound. the uncontrollable emotions.. the fire 99mph+ that came from his arm… where did it go?? I am not accusing him but itis possible that something behind the scene was going on.. I sure hope not but it would explain the major shift in overall performance!

  189. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Carlo,

    I would want Rios. His contract isn’t that bad…12.5-13 million. He’s a good player. That deal instantly make the Yankees a lot better for 2011 and maybe the best team in baseball if Pettite were to come back as well.

  190. heyman_sux December 23rd, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Blake – that deal is not enough. At this point, Williams could ask for that package for Danks alone

  191. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 11:49 am

    I wonder about the so-called Yankee tax on trades. Why would a team do that?

    I believe it does exist in the AL, but not from NL teams. AL teams have to constantly keep in the back of their head that any deal they make with the Yankees hurts their chances of making the postseason or winning an ALCS. In order to compensate for that risk, they ask for more.

  192. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 11:50 am

    Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 11:42 am
    Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2010 at 11:30 am
    Just curious to see what you guys think: Could Joba win 10 games (or more) as a starter for the Yankees in 2011?

    ——————-

    Current Joba – no, not a shot in hades because he doesn’t want it enough to work for it.

    ———————

    It seems as though everyone has forgotten what unfolded 10 months ago. Joba was told, along with Hughes and others, to come to camp prepared to battle for the 5th starters spot. He showed up 20+lbs heavier in the worst shape of his Yankee career.

    Why do people ignore this? He needs to be held accountable. I am not saying he is in the permanent penalty box because of this, but how dont people pick up on the fact that this was a clear indication of his willingness to be a starter and to be a great one?

    ——————–

    I’m with you 100%.

    The worst thing that happened to Joba was all the hype that surrounded him coming up. The “Joba Rules” that seemed to set his personal development on the same or greater level than team development (as in letting him stretch to be a starter at the Major League level regardless of how it impacted games)

    He came in last year with an air about him that he would show up and either be a starter or the successor to Rivera just by being Joba.

    As I have said many times, if it were me, and I was coming off a year when I had lost a spot in the rotation and seen my role in the pen reduced significantly then I would have spent this winter busting my butt. I would have begged to go to winter ball to work on the secondary pitches that the Yankees said cost me my spot in the rotation, I would have called up Larry Rothschild and said, “hey, when can we meet and work on stuff.” I would go on a Brian Bruney diet and drop as much weight as was healthy so that I could come into camp and blow Girardi, Cashman and Rothschild away and I would grab hold of that fifth starter spot and say “lets see an Ivan Nova or Hector Noesi take this away from me.”

    He is, or was, easily more talented on his worst day than either of those guys are on their best days – difference is, they’re willing to work. He’s not.

    Shoot, CC Sabathia coming off a year where he won 21 games spent this winter working out to cut some weight because he thinks there’s still ways he can improve himself. That Joba doesn’t follow suit is an embarassment and why I think if he’s not traded, Joba Chamberlain will be non-tendered within two years.

  193. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 11:50 am

    austinmac – For every ten highly valued prosects, you probably get 1-2 good players.

    Well… best not be stuck with only 7 highly valued prospects then :)

  194. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 11:50 am

    # P December 23rd, 2010 at 11:47 am

    question.. Why after Clemens left did joba fall apart? I’m not assuming anything but when that boy hot the ball the aggressiveness he showed on the mound. the uncontrollable emotions.. the fire 99mph+ that came from his arm… where did it go?? I am not accusing him but itis possible that something behind the scene was going on.. I sure hope not but it would explain the major shift in overall performance!

    ————————

    Not wanting to go where you are teetering on going, i have always chalked it up to the shoulder problem.

  195. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 11:51 am

    Blake-

    Not enough on our side IMO.

  196. 108 stitches December 23rd, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 11:38 am
    Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2010 at 11:30 am
    Just curious to see what you guys think: Could Joba win 10 games (or more) as a starter for the Yankees in 2011?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    He threw 71.1 innings last season. Stretching him out to throw 150 – 175 innings again makes him a candidate for arm injuries.
    The 1st question is, does he have the ambition to want in as a starter again ? He seems to be content with mediocrity as shown by his unwillingness to at least be in top physical condition.
    He knows what the offseason has been about. It’s up to him to change Cashman’s mind and do no worse than express an interest in trying to be a starter again.

  197. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 11:52 am

    blake December 23rd, 2010 at 11:45 am
    Chip,
    agreed. Rios’s contract really isn’t that bad….especially with what’s happened this offseason. Kenny Williams is unpredicatable….if the ChiSox aren’t in the race come July Id be calling him nonstop.

    ——————-

    I agree with that 100%

    For right now though – if you’re looking for a starter to open the season with – my White Sox target is still Peavy.

    He’s got a big enough contract that Williams might seek to move him and he’s still young enough and good enough to at worst be the 3-4 starter and at best be a 1-2.

  198. austinmac December 23rd, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Chip,

    I hope Cashman would sweet talk Williams and not let him hang up. I wold do that in a minute. I know Rios had his issues with the Jays, but he has a ton of ability. Danks is very solid, as a person and pitcher.

  199. RayVT December 23rd, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Randy,
    I agree with you! The one thing I never understand is someone like Cash or a Manager/Coach saying a player is not an acceptable player for their team at a certain position. It is crazy!

    Several years ago the Charlotte Panthers Head FB Coach said his QB (Kerry Collins) quit on the team and aked the Coach to benched him. Collins’ value plumeted to zip as he was no longer an asset. If the idiot Coach keeps his mouth shut then Collins had multiple trade options and was a benefit for the team.

    So in a similar manner with Cash, it just makes no sense! Even if you believed the crap he is saying he shouldn’t say it! IMO, Joba is the missing link in the Yankees starting rotation for 2011. I hope he does great in ST and wins a slot.

  200. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 11:53 am

    # blake December 23rd, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Carlo,

    I would want Rios. His contract isn’t that bad…12.5-13 million. He’s a good player. That deal instantly make the Yankees a lot better for 2011 and maybe the best team in baseball if Pettite were to come back as well.

    ———————

    You’re right on rios. Hes a very good player who took a hit to his quality in 2009 but has been very solid over the long run. Maybe not a $13 mm a year guy…..but thats not a deal breaker at all from my perspective.

  201. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 11:53 am

    MTU,

    I agree its not enough right now.

  202. Frankg December 23rd, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Would have to disagree with you a bit on the Granderson deal. Jackson, Coke, and Kennedy had good years. Granderson did too. How do three players’ good years equate to one player’s good year?

    Since the Yankees lost Coke, they needed another LH reliever and signed the ex-Met. They are now looking for a starter and could use Kennedy. I live in Detroit and watched Jackson play a lot. He can field and run as good as Granderson now, if not better. He strikes out a lot, but so does Granderson. One day he could be better than Granderson. Sorry, bad trade so far.

  203. Carlo December 23rd, 2010 at 11:55 am

    I’m hitting the road everyone. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you all.

  204. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 11:55 am

    I threw this out there earlier and didn’t hear any response:

    Gardner and Joba to the Padres for LHP Clayton Richard.

    26-yr old starter

    200+ IP last year, 3.75 ERA, 3.5bb/9IP, 7k/9IP

    Downside – ERA was more than a run higher away from PETCO

  205. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 11:56 am

    The only thing I blame Cashman for is the apparent lack of a BU plan.

    He did the high wire act w/o a safety net.

    You see the result playing out now.

  206. J. Alfred Prufrock December 23rd, 2010 at 11:56 am

    I doubt Damon comes back.sounds like he’s looking for an everyday gig to get him to 3,000 hits.he won’t make much of a dent being BG backup.and he’s probably not crazy about playing behind a guy he could outhit with his eyes close.defense,well yea,that’s another thing.he was bad as it was in 2009 out there.

  207. heyman_sux December 23rd, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Blake,

    I think the problem is Rios in that trade is potentially a salary dump. But the whole reason the white sox would want to shed salary would be to extend Danks’ contract. If they wanted a cheap Gardner, they could prob just bring back Scott Posednik. Its reasonable at this point for them to get Montero+Betances straight up for Danks IMO

  208. J. Alfred Prufrock December 23rd, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Did anyone hear Eiland’s interview on ESPN?i caught the tail end.just wonderin if he said anything about Chamberlain.thanks.

  209. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 11:58 am

    Chip – I don’t think Richard can play LF on his off days :)

    Hard to believe anyone would hold any value on Joba at this point. He is stuck here until he gets it back or get DFA’d.

  210. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 11:58 am

    Heyman,

    Fair points.

  211. tyanksfan36 December 23rd, 2010 at 11:59 am

    I don’t have a problem letting NovaN Noesi, Phelps fight for the fifth spot. Like I’ve said before, if Nova wins it and then a month or two into the season the wheels fall off they can reevaluate that spot by either bringing in someone via trade or sending him down and bringing someone else up. I don’t know how comfortable I would be to have two of our guys fight for two positions, not that I don’t think they’re good enough. If Andy doesn’t come back then they have to get a veteran.
    And I agree with the Joba sentiment. Its pretty irresponsible to come in fighting for a job when you haven’t seemed to adequately prepare for it.

  212. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    MTU – realistically the problem was there was no safety net to be had. expected delivery of the yankee safety net is 2012, when the B’s Montero and Laird are all bursting out of AAA.

  213. West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Happy Holidays Carlo.

  214. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    I don’t see why the WhiteSox would sign Rios last year, only to “dump” his salary after he did exactly what they hoped he would, bounce back.

  215. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 11:58 am
    Chip – I don’t think Richard can play LF on his off days

    Hard to believe anyone would hold any value on Joba at this point. He is stuck here until he gets it back or get DFA’d.

    ———————

    ID – maybe I could get San Diego to include Chase Headley or I would sign a stop gap LF

  216. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    ID,

    They likely wouldn’t right now…he’s not that over paid given the current market.

  217. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    ID -

    As for Joba.

    I don’t see him as a centerpiece of any deal – but I do think some team would take a shot on him that they could motivate him and get him back to a place where he could either be a starter or a closer.

    A great team for him would probably be St. Louis where Dave Duncan has made a career of turning guys around.

  218. heyman_sux December 23rd, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    ID – are we realistically expecting Laird to contribute at the major league level? I’m really just asking b/c I don’t know enough about him. Did he just have a really hot season this year, or was he looked at as a potential high ceiling prospect in the past?

  219. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Chip – StLouis is interesting, probably not this year but… I could see them wanting to move Holliday’s contract in a year or 2.

  220. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    heyman – I don’t believe in ceilings. (that is a funny statement… lol) I think another good year at AAA would have him sniffing the outfield for the Yankees, barring they can’t get someone like Sizemore in 2012.

  221. Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Interesting feedback guys. I don’t see Joba in the rotation of course, but I think its an interesting question because if we believe Joba can win 10 games for us this year, do we think the same of Nova? Personally, I do. I agree with Irreverent Discourse on this one..I think our offense should be able to win our 5th starter, no matter who he is, at least 10 games. If we have question marks (rookies) in spots #4 and #5, I still think we can get 25 wins from both of them, no matter who they are (Brackman, Nova, Nosei, etc). When you have a lineup like the Yankees do, you kinda have to believe that don’t you?

  222. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Happy Holidays Carlo.

    Let me throw this out there. Had Cashman signed Jorge de la Rosa early in the offseason, a lefty, for 3 years and $36M, would we be having any of these discussions?

    Even w/o Lee, and Pettitte, the rotation would have been:
    CC
    Hughes
    AJ
    de la Rosa
    Nova

  223. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    ID-

    There always has to be a safety net no matter how flimsy.

    Otherwise you court disaster.

    I won’t belabor the point. Let’s just agree to disagree on this one.

    In any case, we must always look to the future as you pointed out.

    I’m as excited about our prospects as anyone.

    :)

  224. tyanksfan36 December 23rd, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Heyman_sux

    I think Laird has always been a good prospect. In 2009 he was if I recall, the FSL RBI leader. I know he is trying to up his value by learning more positions so he should be able to contribute whether its for us or someone else.

  225. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    I’m really upset my dead monkey comment didn’t garner more interest :p

  226. heyman_sux December 23rd, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    ID – haha well played. Just trying to gauge the hype around him is all. Really think Sizemore is a possibility? I actually wonder if Rasmus is still unhappy in St. Louis…I wouldn’t mind seeing him come over. Maybe with Carpenter

  227. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    MTU – I really believe Vazquez screwed up the short term planning that Cashman had in place. If he wasn’t so god awful (or even half as awful), it would have been very easy to resign him if Pettitte/Lee fell through. If he pitched like he did in Atlanta, they wouldn’t have had to wait around for Lee to make up his mind.

  228. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:06 pm
    Chip – StLouis is interesting, probably not this year but… I could see them wanting to move Holliday’s contract in a year or 2.

    ——————

    Just throwing it out there:

    St. Louis gets: Joba, Gardner, Montero, Nunez, Brackman
    Yankees get: Colby Rasmus, Jamie Garcia, Kyle Lohse’s contract

  229. sunny615 December 23rd, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    The Yankees need Damon like the Jets need another distraction.

  230. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 12:12 pm
    Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:06 pm
    Chip – StLouis is interesting, probably not this year but… I could see them wanting to move Holliday’s contract in a year or 2.

    ——————

    Just throwing it out there:

    St. Louis gets: Joba, Gardner, Montero, Nunez, Brackman
    Yankees get: Colby Rasmus, Jamie Garcia, Kyle Lohse’s contract
    ————————–

    Chip,

    It’s too early for the egg-nog.

  231. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    ID-

    Again. I really don’t want to belabor the point but I’ll just say this.

    I don’t believe in making excuses.

  232. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    heyman_sux December 23rd, 2010 at 12:11 pm
    ID – haha well played. Just trying to gauge the hype around him is all. Really think Sizemore is a possibility? I actually wonder if Rasmus is still unhappy in St. Louis…I wouldn’t mind seeing him come over. Maybe with Carpenter

    ——————–

    I do think the Indians would consider moving Sizemore and Carmona mid season.

    As for Rasmus – see my suggestion to ID

  233. austinmac December 23rd, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Irreverent,

    I think you are right about Vazquez. Last year wasn’t the only year he screwed the team on.

    I will keep my 7 top prospects such as Jeter and trade other tops prosects such as Ruben Rivera. I can’t imagine why I am not offered a plush, high paying job as advisor to Cashman. :)

  234. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Eiland on mlbradio now…kinda took a swipe at Girardi for leaving AJ in the game too long in the Postseason. Also said he was going to give Tampa every bit of info he can to beat the Yankees. That’s normal to do but he seems a little bitter.

  235. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 12:14 pm
    Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 12:12 pm
    Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:06 pm
    Chip – StLouis is interesting, probably not this year but… I could see them wanting to move Holliday’s contract in a year or 2.

    ——————

    Just throwing it out there:

    St. Louis gets: Joba, Gardner, Montero, Nunez, Brackman
    Yankees get: Colby Rasmus, Jamie Garcia, Kyle Lohse’s contract
    ————————–

    Chip,

    It’s too early for the egg-nog.

    ——————

    How about if I up the offer by putting in Betances instead of Brackman and including Nova?

  236. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    heyman – Sizemore is a team option in 2012. It’s at $9mil now, up to 10.5 if he wins a gold glove or silver slugger this year. At this point I don’t know how much is too much for Cleveland, but they do have a propensity for letting their players go. Yankees may even be able to trade for him and extend him cheap-ish given his injury history the last 2 seasons.

    I love him as a player, so he is my slightly “unreasonable” obsession for 2012.

  237. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    blake December 23rd, 2010 at 12:16 pm
    Eiland on mlbradio now…kinda took a swipe at Girardi for leaving AJ in the game too long in the Postseason. Also said he was going to give Tampa every bit of info he can to beat the Yankees. That’s normal to do but he seems a little bitter.

    —————————

    Let him be bitter – the guy was in over his head and couldn’t reach the two guys who needed his help the most – AJ and Joba.

  238. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Just in case I for get to say it later.

    I would like to wish all of you a Merry Xmas and a joyous Holiday.

    May all of you wishes come true.

    Enjoy health, happiness and peace in the coming year.

    :)

  239. Mike Ri December 23rd, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    you as well MTU

  240. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    kinda took a swipe at Girardi for leaving AJ in the game too long

    Eiland has no right to speak about the Yankees 2010 pitching staff given the total drop off in performance of Burnett/Vazquez/Hughes as the season went on.

    Chip – I like the rasmus idea, but it seems like a lot of wishful thinking to expect the cards to give up Garcia. With Holliday/Pujols their money is going to be handcuffed for a few years and won’t be able to spend on FA pitchers.

  241. 108 stitches December 23rd, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    With the teams as it stands today, it wouldn’t be a surprise to see Noesi or Phelps, Laird, and Nunez making the team when spring training ends in late March.

  242. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    MTU,

    you do the same….don’t shoot your eye out ;)

  243. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    Thanks Mike.

  244. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    it is amazing, isn’t it? The difference between yesterday and today? I got caught up in it yesterday, didn’t mean to but it happens. We can all disagree in a polite fashion with a few less crazy heads around.

    Merry Xmas MTU :)

  245. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Blake-

    Thanks. I’ll try not to.

    Enjoy those quiet moments with your Family.

    They are precious.

    :)

  246. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    ID-

    Thanks.

    All the best to you and yours.

  247. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    Let me throw this out there. Had Cashman signed Jorge de la Rosa early in the offseason, a lefty, for 3 years and $36M, would we be having any of these discussions?

    Even w/o Lee, and Pettitte, the rotation would have been:
    CC
    Hughes
    AJ
    de la Rosa
    Nova

    With Pettitte back it would have been:
    CC
    Hughes
    Pettitte
    AJ
    de la Rosa

    Nova would be in the pen, along with Mo, Robertson, Joba, Logan, Feliciano and Mitre

    If Lee AND Pettitte had signed it would have been:
    CC
    Lee
    Hughes
    AJ
    Pettitte

    with de la Rosa traded because of a reasonable contract, which may have provided depth in the OF and IF.

  248. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    MTU,

    if there is a quite moment I will cherish it ;)

  249. P December 23rd, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    I’m not saying that Joba was doing Roids.. I’m just saying that there was a HUGE drop in performance, velocity and even demeanor on the mound once Clemens left and shortly after MLB PEDs testing became much stricter.

    I can only speculate that it’s suspicious. I wouldn’t put it past him or damn near anybody around that time frame. A lot of players were using PEDs even if they were not mentioned in the Mitchell report. HEH.

    Regardless of that fact.. Joba is NOT the pitcher he once was. Not even close. Joba is our Dontrelle Willis.. somebody that showed exceptional and powerful stuff, with a very promising future.. his mechanics may be all out of wack, just like D-Train, but he isn’t as far gone as D-Train is.. I still don’t think he is dependable and it would still take a miracle to get Joba even close to where he was at and I just don’t even see his potential anymore. that pitcher doesn’t exist anymore.

    If he can’t get back on track as an RP, what makes you think he should be considered for a SP? Makes no sense.

  250. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Blake-

    I’m sure there will be. As soon as your Son stops screaming with joy
    after opening his presents.

    :)

  251. joe b December 23rd, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Barry Zito may be available. Yankees need lefty starters !!!

  252. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    MTU -

    Enjoy.

  253. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Chip-

    You too. I’d tell to behave yourself but …….

    ;)

  254. disco stu December 23rd, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    DaSaint007 -

    Maybe the Yankees felt that De La Rosa wasnt worth the money he was asking, even if he were to give our rotation more quality depth than we have righ now.

    Or maybe still, the Yankees felt all along they could do better than Jorge De La Rosa … either during the off-seaon, ST, or during the season. Weren’t there rumors not too long ago that the Twins were considering dealing Francisco Liriano? Maybe they are waiting to see if Pavano resigns or not before they proceed with serious trade talks.

  255. heyman_sux December 23rd, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    ID/Chip

    I would be pretty happy if a trade could be made for Rasmus. But I agree that Garcia is wishful thinking at this point b/c of his cost effectiveness. Thats why I ask about Carpenter. I know he’s not ideal, but you know he has the goods when he’s on. Maybe something like Montero/Gardner/two of the B’s?

  256. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    DeLaRosa has been an average to below average pitcher for about 7 years now, I can’t imagine his stuff would translate well to the AL.

  257. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    heyman – I would actually hesitate to trade for any pitcher on the Cardinals because of Dave Duncan. He is very… very good at what he does, and who knows how much he is holding the strings together.

    Given Carpenter’s injury history, Montero would (should, i guess) never be included in a deal for him. That being said, any deal without him would not likely be enough. Tough to read into that situation.

  258. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    During this Holiday season her are a few things to consider and I quote:

    “How is it they live in such harmony the billions of stars – when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.”

    And

    “Love takes up where knowledge leaves off.”

    Pretty smart Man that St. Thomas Acquinas.

    ;)

  259. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    If I was Cashman, I would at least get on the phone with Pavano and tell him to man up and sign a 2 year league minimum deal with heavy incentives for performance.

    At this point, it’s pretty clear Pavano isn’t going to get the money he wants, so give him the chance to save face and make his money in a different way.

  260. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    There were two pitchers on the FA market who scared the heck out of me: Joakin Benoit and Jorge De La Rosa

    de la Rosa just has too great a chance of turning into the next Ollie Perez to give him what he was going to get on the FA market. It well might turn out that he develops great; but I’m glad to not be on the hook for him

  261. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    MTU – http://www.brainyquote.com/quo.....uinas.html

    Smart man indeed.

    My favorite one:
    Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

  262. Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    P – I have a problem with this statement, “I wouldn’t put it past him or damn near anybody around that time frame. A lot of players were using PEDs even if they were not mentioned in the Mitchell report. ”

    If you can’t test players for half the stuff they pump into their body, I don’t think we can confine usage to certain years. And if Joba was doing well because he was using PEDs and stopped because of testing… someone ship that boy some HGH, stat!

  263. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    edit: “here”. way smarter than me apparently. At least he could spell.

  264. heyman_sux December 23rd, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    ID – true, I hadn’t considered the “Dave Duncan factor”. But I tend to believe some of the effects of a pitching coach is hype. Understood, he’s great at his job, but Carpenter is obviously a skilled pitcher.

    I only include Montero in the deal b/c of Rasmus. From a talent perspective, I don’t know if any other prospects would be enough

  265. 11 CF December 23rd, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    The Boone Logan deal was a great move. I doubt Cano would ever have an MVP contending season if Melky were still around.

  266. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    ID-

    I love that one.

    I’m a practical Man.

  267. heyman_sux December 23rd, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Also, I puked a little even hearing the name Carl Pavano. Can you believe that guy was actually our opening day starter once upon a time?

  268. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Duncans forte is teaching guys to sink the ball…..not sure that’s Joba.

  269. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    heyman – The biggest thing I can point to to burst the pitching coach “hype” is that when Smoltz got traded from Boston to StLouis, he wasn’t there for 2 days before Duncan told him he was tipping his pitches, then he was lights out for the rest of that season.

    It may not be much, but the difference between being a bad pitcher and a great pitcher isn’t much either.

  270. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    heyman – lol, i was there for that. he won that game so i can’t be too upset about it :p

    If they can sign him to a super-low risk contract, and one where he would have to perform to be paid… I don’t think its that bad of a move. He would gain a lot of respect if he was willing to put his livelyhood on the line to show that he was not just in NY to collect paychecks.

    Also, I wouldn’t imagine that Rasmus alone would be too expensive, he was at odds with LaRussa all of last year. If he wasn’t so damn good when he plays he probably would have been moved already.

  271. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Adrian Gonzalez has told the Red Sox that he’s not interested in a “record breaking deal” but will negotiate with them next year and wants “market value” I’m curious if that market value will include whatever Pujols gets.

  272. heyman_sux December 23rd, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    ID – fair point. But there’s obviously something to be said going from AL east to NL central, too.

    I don’t completely disagree. Basically I wouldn’t expect him to be the type of pitcher to switch to the AL and be just completely awful. I’d at least expect better-than-Vazquez numbers and be a solid 3-4 slot in the rotation at worst

  273. heyman_sux December 23rd, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    AGon has to sign for at least Tex/Howard money. But he sounds like he would understand that Pujols is going to get ‘legend’ or ‘icon’ type money

  274. LGY December 23rd, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Wave

    Yeah, I agree.

    I think Cashmans mistake was in judging the likelihood of being able to get Lee.

    I don’t think he assumed Lee would be a Yankee but very likely thought the probability was higher.

  275. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    If Boston were smart they would sign him for 8/200 and be done with it. If they start low-balling him they will end up bidding on him in 2012 with everyone else.

  276. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Although… given the deals they gave Youkilis and Pedroia… they seem to like to hang players out to dry in their mid 30′s.

  277. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Ok, so the perception seems to be that a Free Agent 29 year old lefty, with a 34-24 record the last 3 years was too much of a gamble as a safety net – just in case Lee and/or Pettitte weren’t signed – in a lefty dominated AL East.

    Yet it was ok for Cashman to make a similar gamble by trading for Swisher to play 1B just a couple years ago.

    Got to disagree with you fellas on this one.

  278. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    34-24 record

    Got to disagree that this even matters. His Over 4 ERA, 1.4WHIP, and 4BB/9 in those 3 seasons will not translate to 34 wins in the AL East.

    At that rate they could have just resigned Vazquez and rolled the dice again.

  279. comet December 23rd, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Merry Christmas to all, and especially, MTU, GB&, Erin and Kate!

    2011 will bring number 28!

  280. Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    I still say AGon would be CRAZY not to hit the open market. Look at what ridiculous contracts were handed out to good players this winter and he’s an elite player – he could command a king’s ransom.

    Too bad Boras isn’t his agent..we wouldnt even need to worry about him testing free agency.

  281. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Comet-

    Thanks.

    Same to you and yours.

    May only good things come your way.

  282. AldotheApache December 23rd, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    Plus AGon is playing in a hitter’s park this year.

    He just needs to stay healthy and he will get a mega contract next winter.

  283. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    If Gonzalez wanted to he could use Teixera’s contract as a starting point. Boston’s fanbase would go ballistic if thy let him walk after a year……he has a ton of leverage if he decides to use it.

  284. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    ID,

    I hear your point, and agree that he may have been questionable in the AL East, but there are so few lefty starters available.

    Well it didn’t happen, and neither did Lee, and Pettitte may not either, so we’ll never know.

    What we do know is that our rotation currently is CC, Hughes, AJ…

    …and 2 open slots.

  285. G. Love December 23rd, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Guys. The Gonzalez extension has most likely already been agreed to. He’s probably going to sign it on the day after opening day so Boston avoids the luxury tax for this season.

    There’s not a doubt in my mind he’s got the contract already in his possession and he just has to sign it once the season starts.

    You actually think it makes sense for Boston to not negotiate with him now while he’s their property?

    They’re not waiting to see if his shoulder is ok. They are circumventing the tax.

    That said, Gonzalez should hit the open market if he wanted top dollar. By next season the Mets, Rangers, Cubs, Nats, etc. would all make bids that competed with Boston.

  286. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    DaSaintz – Yeah… I can’t say it wouldn’t have been a good risk to take… just that his performance for the Yankees would be far removed from his contract. Really DeLaRosa made a huge mistake signing early like he did.

  287. Benny Blanco December 23rd, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    Blake,

    I’m praying gonzo does that so boston can go into the piggy bank.

  288. Erin December 23rd, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    comet December 23rd, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Merry Christmas to all, and especially, MTU, GB&, Erin and Kate!

    2011 will bring number 28!

    ********************************
    thanks comet! Merry Christmas to you too!

    Hey-are we going down to spring training again this year?? ;)

  289. comet December 23rd, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    Erin you bet. Now that I know the area you live in though I have to make a special trip west just get you. It will be fun though. All the best in 2011. Can’t wait for our trip. i think Erica and Kate are coming as well.

    Comet

  290. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    LGY December 23rd, 2010 at 12:56 pm
    Wave

    Yeah, I agree.

    I think Cashmans mistake was in judging the likelihood of being able to get Lee.

    I don’t think he assumed Lee would be a Yankee but very likely thought the probability was higher.

    ———————-

    I don’t think he misjudged the possibility of signing Lee – I mean it’s not like Cliff totally ignored the Yankee offers – so Cashman had a 1 in 3 chance of getting him.

    In any case – it’s moot at this point.

  291. tyanksfan36 December 23rd, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Erin,

    I’m glad you brought up spring training. Since I live in Tampa I am always up for attending a game as long as I’m not in school or working. Are you coming down for any spring training games? I’m going the 13 to see them play the twins.

  292. Don December 23rd, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    Advice to Cashman: just say no to Damon.

  293. joe b December 23rd, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    How about Barry Zito. He may be available and he is a lefty.

  294. randy l. December 23rd, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    “At that rate they could have just resigned Vazquez and rolled the dice again.”

    i said the other night they should have done this .

    at worst they’d have a #5 guy.

  295. DaSaint007 December 23rd, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    I’m thankful for sharing my first Christmas with my new son, whom GB refers to as Baby Simon, future SS of the NY Yankees circa 2028, so stay tuned.

    I love the daily interchange of ideas, experiences, observations and commentary we share. We don’t always agreee, and sometimes it gets a bit snippy, but for the most part it’s the shared love of the Yankees that brings us together. We’re all armchair GMs.

    Knowing many will be leaving early, I’d just like to wish everyone a Happy Holiday Season and Merry Christmas!

  296. blake December 23rd, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    If the Giants would pick up 95% of his salary then Zito would be a nice replacement for Igawa.

  297. joe b December 23rd, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    They will regret not going after Barry Zito when all the lefties are gone !!!

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