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“Pretty shocked,” Eiland moves on

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 23, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

ALCS Yankees Rangers BaseballMore or less echoing Joe Girardi’s comments at the end of the season, former Yankees pitching coach Dave Eiland said he fully expected to be back in pinstripes until a call from Brian Cashman telling him he was not being re-hired.

Eiland told ESPNNewYork he was “pretty shocked” by the decision. Cashman said, “He knows why” the decision was made.

“There’s no bad blood, no hard feelings, no animosity at all,” Eiland said. “I don’t necessarily agree with the decision they made, but I respect it. There’s a lot of great people there. I wish them the best, but when we go up against those guys I’m gonna give everything I have to beat them.”

Eiland’s version of events pretty much fits with Girardi, who said he expected to have his staff back until Cashman said the team would go in another direction. Once again, neither Cashman nor Eiland elaborated on the reasons for the change or the reasons for Eiland’s month-long absence.

“Can Phil Hughes repeat his 18 win season? Can Ivan Nova or Sergio Mitre step into that fourth or fifth spot? There’s a lot of questions,” Eiland said. “They got a bit of work to do if they want to catch up to Boston’s starting staff or match up with the Rays’ starting staff as well. They didn’t get the big fish they wanted in Cliff Lee, but obviously, the Yankees have the resources to get what they need when they need it. I’m sure Brian Cashman and his staff will do what they have to do.”

Associated Press photo

 
 

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137 Responses to ““Pretty shocked,” Eiland moves on”

  1. Crawdaddy December 23rd, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    I thought our pitchers would do better under Eiland than what they actually accomplished.

  2. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    I was shocked when Eiland got the job.
    Not that it is a prerequisite but he was a mediocre pitcher.

  3. Joe from Long Island December 23rd, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    randy – Cashman hardly ever badmouths a player – just look at Carl Pavano. Depending on things, however, and the message Cash wants to deliver, I could that something could be “leaked”.

    Something serious went down here.

  4. G. Love December 23rd, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Gotta love how Eiland laid out Girardi for keeping AJ in to pitch to Molina in the ALCS. He tried to be vague about who made the call but it’s not like Cashman, Hal or Hank made that call in the course of the game.

  5. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    This goes back to something I said about Cash’s relationship with Girardi earlier this winter – wouldn’t you think that if the GM knew he was going to can the pitching coach he would tell the manager ahead of time so that the manager doesn’t look like a horse’s rear end when he can’t answer correctly what’s going on with his own staff?

    I’m not saying Girardi is a stooge, but the fact that he’s not brought up to speed by the GM about something as important as that kinda make him look like one.

  6. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Eiland shows no class trashing the Yanks, it looks like he brought this all on himself.
    Randy is right, why did he even do the interview?

  7. Yank 97 December 23rd, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    lol @ that Eliand quote about our pitching

    Can’t disagree with him though, it is a mess

  8. Warning Track Power December 23rd, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    a lot of you here really want drama huh?

    just how did Eiland “lay out” Girardi for allowing AJ to pitch to Molina?

    just how did Eiland show “no class” in this interview?

    like a lot of Yankees fan, I can’t help but be curious why Eiland was fired by the GM.
    did the decision involve his 30 day leave during the middle of the season?
    someone has to know and if you do, spill the beans, LOL!!

  9. randy l. December 23rd, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    crawdaddy

    serious question.

    do you ever question anything that cashman does while he’s doing it?

    there was nothing that eiland ever said or did that would make anyone think he was a pitching coach who stood out among pitching coaches.

    i know exactly what was done by his original pitching coach to make chien ming wang tick and eland never talked about these things when he referred to wang.

    this was a big red flag to me.

    i don’t think he was a bad pitching coach, but i don’t think there was anything special about him.

    with the yankees really trying to develop young guys, shouldn’t the yankees have a pitching coach who is the best in the business?

    i would think so.

    if the yankees are going to just hire generic coaches,then they need to sign already made players who have been coached somewhere else.

    do you really think gardner would have made it to the mlb twins without knowing how to bunt well?

    the yankees do have some problems with coaches and coaching. they are not the best in the business yet they have the money to be the best in the business.

    there’s something amiss there.

  10. Captain Clutch December 23rd, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Eiland should keep quite. I really don’t think he wants to get into a war of words with Cashman. If so you can guarantee Cash will win. I really doubt Eiland wants everyone to know his “issues”.

  11. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    The only reason it’s a mess is that Andy hasn’t signed.
    Great job Vasquez did last year when we had the best staff in the land and won 1st place in the offseason.
    I wish the same to the rs this season.
    Hughes has another year under his belt, AJ can’t be as bad, we have a new pitching coach, think positive.

  12. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    We’re all assuming that Eiland’s firing had something to do with undisclosed “issues.” Isn’t it just as possible he was fired for the fact that he couldn’t reach AJ and one of their top pitching prospects, Joba, regressed horribly on his watch?

  13. Jerkface December 23rd, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    To which Cashman responded: “He knows why. He was given conditions that needed to be followed. So he knows why.”

  14. G. Love December 23rd, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    Chip,

    I think that is the reason he was fired. Seeing AJ, Joba regress and watching Javy go from a Cy Young candidate to long reliever doesn’t bode well for the effect the pitching coach is having on his staff.

    That said, he should get credit for Logan who couldn’t make a roster before he got to NY.

  15. randy l. December 23rd, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    “Something serious went down here.”

    joe in long island-

    i agree. and it’s odd two days before christmas for eiland to do an interview. matthews would have no story if eiland would have been unavailable.

    if alcohol was the original problem, that might explain why eiland is saying stuff now. alcoholics don’t exactly have good judgement if they are still having a problem.

    this kind of speculation may be unfair, but it’s been opened up precisely because eiland did the interview and said he was shocked to be let go.

  16. Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    I could care less why Eiland didn’t get rehired. I don’t think there’s much difference between most of these guys anyway. My guess is most fans feel that way.

  17. mick December 23rd, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    just how did Eiland show “no class” in this interview?
    ==================================
    The Yanks protected him and kept his situation private.
    Now he has something negative to say about them.
    That shows no class to me.

  18. Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    Oh and I could care less whether Eiland gave an interview either.

  19. saucY December 23rd, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    Warning Track Power December 23rd, 2010 at 3:01 pm
    a lot of you here really want drama huh?

    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=====-=-=-=-=-=
    seems that way…

    speaking of, did i hear rumors of a locker room scuffle between Eiland and AJ prior to his leave of absence?

  20. randy l. December 23rd, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    i’d be surprised if chad and sam didn’t have some idea what the problem cashman had with eiland, but for professional reasons chose not to go there.

  21. 108 stitches December 23rd, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    Eiland is history now. Let’s see if Rothschild is a difference maker particularly in getting Burnett and Chamberlain straightened out plus how he works with the up and coming young arms.

  22. West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    It’s Eiland’s fault that Vazquez got a dead arm? And that Burnet was Burnett?

    Was it also his fault that Sabathia won 21 games? And that Hughes won 18? And that Pettitte was 11-3?

  23. Warning Track Power December 23rd, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    randy i.

    i remember reading that Eiland was hired as the Yankees pitching coach because he previous held that title in AAA.
    the Yankees felt comfortable promoting Eiland to the big leagues so he could follow the young pitching prospects that were about to get their turn in the big leagues.
    if you ask me, that makes sense.

    3 yrs later, i can not disagree with his dismissal.
    as a pitching coach Eiland failed in 2010. plain and simple.

  24. Warning Track Power December 23rd, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    seems that way…

    speaking of, did i hear rumors of a locker room scuffle between Eiland and AJ prior to his leave of absence?

    ************************************************************************
    i could be old school, but i really don’t have a problem if a coach/player have a scuffle in the locker room or hotel or on the bus, etc…..not the first time and won’t be the last time.

    remember that one day/night when A.J. was being interviewed and he had a “shiner/black eye”. he was asked about that and he said something like, “i repsect you asking and know you have to ask, but no comment”.

    i can’t recall if that was prior to Eiland leaving the team or after Eiland had already left the team.

  25. OCYankeesFan December 23rd, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    Festivus is in full swing around here!

    Cashman already performed the “feats of strength” with his elf routine.

    Many on this this blog (and now) Eiland are “airing their grievances.”

    Now all we need is the pole and someone to cook us a Festivus dinner.

    But the question remains . . . will Cashman give us a “Festivus” miracle? Doesn’t look like it . . .

  26. randy l. December 23rd, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    “the Yankees felt comfortable promoting Eiland to the big leagues so he could follow the young pitching prospects that were about to get their turn in the big leagues.”

    what the yankees should have done was leave the pitching prospects down at triple a a year or so longer and eiland with them.

    when you think about it cashman’s choice to bring up hughes, kennedy, and joba … and eiland to coach them , was a colossal blunder the yankees are still paying for.

    the only only one left standing is hughes and by all reports , he was going to be a start no matter where he went.

  27. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 3:12 pm
    I could care less why Eiland didn’t get rehired. I don’t think there’s much difference between most of these guys anyway. My guess is most fans feel that way.

    ———————-

    I think fans who have seen Dave Duncan turn guys like Jeff Weaver, Joel Pineiro, Braden Looper, Jeff Suppan, Jason Marquis and Kyle Lohse into viable major league starters would disagree…

  28. 108 stitches December 23rd, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    G. Love :

    The credit for Boone Logan deserves to go with Scott Aldred at AAA Scranton/Wilkes-Barre when he was sent down early in the season. He put up good numbers and returned to the Yankees as a better pitcher for it.

  29. Crawdaddy December 23rd, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    Randy,

    There you go again about freaking Wang.

    If you really want to have a serious discussion with me then stop with your obsession about Cashman and Wang.

  30. Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    “I think fans who have seen Dave Duncan turn guys like Jeff Weaver, Joel Pineiro, Braden Looper, Jeff Suppan, Jason Marquis and Kyle Lohse into viable major league starters would disagree…”

    One (perhaps) exception does not disprove a rule. There was a time when you would have used the name Leo Mazzone instead.

  31. Warning Track Power December 23rd, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    randy i.
    randy l. December 23rd, 2010 at 3:21 pm
    “the Yankees felt comfortable promoting Eiland to the big leagues so he could follow the young pitching prospects that were about to get their turn in the big leagues.”

    what the yankees should have done was leave the pitching prospects down at triple a a year or so longer and eiland with them.

    when you think about it cashman’s choice to bring up hughes, kennedy, and joba … and eiland to coach them , was a colossal blunder the yankees are still paying for.

    the only only one left standing is hughes and by all reports , he was going to be a start no matter where he went.

    ***********************************************************************
    do you always play Thursday morning QB: what you’re saying is ridiculous and holds no weight.
    the decision the team made regarding those 3 young starters was done for reasons that at the time were legit. end of subject.

  32. saucY December 23rd, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Warning Track Power December 23rd, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    remember that one day/night when A.J. was being interviewed and he had a “shiner/black eye”. he was asked about that and he said something like, “i repsect you asking and know you have to ask, but no comment”.

    -=-=-=-=-=
    yes, that incident is what i was thinking of…

  33. Bronx Jeers December 23rd, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    One would think that the length of Eilands leave reveals the reason behind it. How many things could it be?

    Maybe his retention was dependent on abstaining from this behavior and he didn’t.

    I didn’t view him as a poor coach nor a great one. But the pitching was a major problem last season so a fresh start with a new face is certainly in order. On the other hand is it Eiland’s fault AJ and Javy pitched like scrubs? Rothschild certainly has his work cut out for him that’s for sure.

  34. Crawdaddy December 23rd, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    “what the yankees should have done was leave the pitching prospects down at triple a a year or so longer and eiland with them.”

    When your organization’s mantra is to win the WS every year, some decisions are made that may work out with some short-term gain, but might have some negative affect long term-wise. The worse thing the Yankees did was bringing up Joba, Hughes and Kennedy in 2007. Sure, they made the playoffs that season, but it hurt the development of Joba and Hughes as starting pitchers and probably cost them not making the playoffs in 2008.

    I hope Cashman doesn’t make the same mistake with Banuelos and Betances. I can see Brackman coming up late in the year for some help in 2011, but please leave those other two guys down in the minors.

  35. RadioKev December 23rd, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    I do think Dave Eiland did a good job with our pitching. Our bullpen noticeably formed up quite well these past three years. It was certainly a weakness before Eiland, and became a strength with him. Ok pitchers in the past turned into some reliable shutdown guys.

    AJ was doing better before Eiland’s absence this past year, CC’s had great years, Mussina had a 20 win, CC had 21 this year, Phil Hughes has 18 (you’d imagine he worked a lot with Eiland more so than those other two), Pettitte had some very good years.

    I don’t know, to say that you’d be let down with our pitching the past few years seems a bit much. I noticed a definite improvement compared to the rest of the 2000s.

  36. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 3:24 pm
    “I think fans who have seen Dave Duncan turn guys like Jeff Weaver, Joel Pineiro, Braden Looper, Jeff Suppan, Jason Marquis and Kyle Lohse into viable major league starters would disagree…”

    One (perhaps) exception does not disprove a rule. There was a time when you would have used the name Leo Mazzone instead.

    ————————-

    I think you’ll find in any profession there are are going to be a few who rise above the rest. I would also say that you’re right in that, in general, even the best chef is only as good as what he has to work with.

    Having said that – there are some pitching coaches who employ better methodology than others.

    For example there are some pitching coaches who are more of a sounding board – this works best for veteran staffs where the pitchers know basically what they’re doing right and doing wrong and are just looking for an extra set of eyes (Mel fell under this category) then there are other pitching coaches who do more teaching, how to approach different situations, how to incorporate different pitches – these tend to be better for teams with young pitchers on the rise.

    It’s the same thing with hitting coaches.

    Though I will say that not having Rick Peterson on staff will probably help the Brewers since I don’t think he and Greinke would have been a good match.

  37. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    Bronx Jeers December 23rd, 2010 at 3:33 pm
    One would think that the length of Eilands leave reveals the reason behind it. How many things could it be?

    ——————

    How do we know that his leave was related to his departure at all? Maybe the leave was to deal with a sick relative or an illness of his own.

  38. Chip December 23rd, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    In fact, I would think that his leave and his dismissal were not related. If they were, why would he be shocked about being dismissed?

  39. 108 stitches December 23rd, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Two notable things that Eiland did was make a slight grip change with C.C. at a time when he was not having his best outings.
    Nick Swisher was Damon-like with his OF throws until he went to Eiland and asked his advice about changing his grip to get more on his throws.

  40. Sudden Sam December 23rd, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    I dont know, he left the team at a critical point of the season, some of his starters and relievers underachieved, and nobody gets better. AJ was bad, Joba was bad, Vasquez was awful. Who cares?

  41. randy l. December 23rd, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    “If you really want to have a serious discussion with me then stop with your obsession about Cashman and Wang.”

    crawdaddy -

    it’s not my fault i got the guy who taught wang his sinker his first pitching coach job.

    the problem you have with wang is that you simply don’t want to know the real truth about wang and how the yankees led by cashman treated wang.

    the only reason that guidry seemed to do such a good job with him is he let wang talk with the original pitching coach after each game even though he was with a new organization. guidry and the old coach were close friends.

    oops sorry. too much inside info. don’t want to upset you .

  42. West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    I’d really love to get an answer to this.

    Would those who are hold Eiland responsible for Burnett and Vazquez, please explain to me if you also hold him responsible for Sabbathia winning 21 games, Hughes winning 18 and Pettitte going 11-3?

    Honest question.

  43. Jerkface December 23rd, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    How do we know that his leave was related to his departure at all? Maybe the leave was to deal with a sick relative or an illness of his own.

    A conspicuous leave of absence and this quote from cash leads me to believe it was related

    To which Cashman responded: “He knows why. He was given conditions that needed to be followed. So he knows why.”

  44. Bronx Jeers December 23rd, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    How do we know that his leave was related to his departure at all? Maybe the leave was to deal with a sick relative or an illness of his own.

    ———————————————————————————————————

    I’m just putting 2 + X together. Obviously it’s conjecture but when Cashman says “He was given conditions that needed to be followed ” , it sounds to me that there was a previous issue and that his continued employment was contingent on adhering to certain rules.

  45. randy l. December 23rd, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    “Mussina had a 20 win year”

    now that is something that eland has something to do with.

    girardi and eland told mussina to either pitch up and in or go to the bullpen.

    of course , i whad been making cracks that mussina should pitch in a pinstriped skirt for years because of his refusal to go up and in.

    mussina could have walked into the hall of fame because he was so talented if he had gone up and in his whole time with the yankees.

    i hated the way mussina pitched. i never understood how torre tolerated it.

  46. West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    I’ll tell you one thing. Listening to Eiland’s interview on the radio, his comments about Derek Jeter were outstanding and as classy as you will find coming out of anyone’s mouth.

  47. Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Chip-

    My guess is that any random pitching coach would change his approach depending on whether he had a staff full of veterans or a staff full of kids. That isn’t rocket science.

    Undoubtedly, some pitching coaches are better than others. The problem is given the enormous natural variation in a pitcher’s performance from one year to the next, how do you tell? It is hard enough for the teams who live with these guys – it is probably impossible for the fan watching from the outside.

    Unless your team is signing Dave Duncan, or unless you are on a crusade like randy l, it doesn’t bear worrying about. JMO.

  48. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    Never a big Eiland fan.

    Always thought he was no better than mediocre.

    Adios. Hope the door didn’t hit you on the way out.

    And by the way Eiland, wether you are there or not, we are still gonna kick the Ray’s butts.

    Just thought you might want to know.

    ;)

  49. yclept December 23rd, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    I don’t think there really is anything wrong with what Dave Eiland said. I don’t see him dissing the Yankees’ staff – he’s asking the same questions others have asked. He’s asking the questions he himself was trying to answer before he got fired. “What do I do if this organization doesn’t get Lee? What did I see in Nova’s approach that can be improved upon to get him over the top?”…etc. etc.

    As for his job as pitching coach, I would say he did an average job – he was neither great at it or terrible at it. There wasn’t any one thing where I would say that Eiland had an epic “fail”; but there really isn’t anything where I would say “Wow, that guy was bad before Dave Eiland got a hold of him”.

  50. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    And for those who do not think a pitching coach matters much consider what Long has been able to do with many of our hitters.

    Can’t a really good pitching coach have the same kind of impact ?

    Just a thought. My 2 center.

  51. J. Alfred Prufrock December 23rd, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Who’s bright idea was it to have Chamberlain’s innings managed by pitching 3-4 inning stints?surely the pitching coach got a vote on that and either conceived it or gave it a heartfelt,proactive thumbs up.that’s grounds alone for firing.that was only the dumbest s**t ever.y’all don’t remember but even Sabathia raised an eyebrow and said something like ‘any pitcher would have trouble succeeding under those conditions’ or something like that.that doesn’t sound like a teammate who is burned up that one of the young starters is a flaky gadabout that doesn’t take his work seriously.that sounds like a veteran pitcher too flabbergasted to play the PR game and NOT speak his mind on a ridiculous pitching schedule for Chamaberlain.it was either Eiland’s bright idea or some other dunce’s bright idea that Eiland thought was just marvy.

  52. Jerkface December 23rd, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    How does a pitcher manage to not throw 2-4 shut out innings when he knows he can empty the tank in 60 pitches?

  53. yclept December 23rd, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    MTU –

    I think pitching coaches actually have a bigger impact than hitting coaches. But I do think a lot of pitching coaches are similar – so you want to get that special one that can really turn a staff around. Nobody can argue against Dave Duncan’s success – he is great at finding out what a pitcher is good at and forcing them to stick with it. Joel Piniero is a great example of that – he simplified his approach, and he blossomed. We’ll see if Rotschild can work with Hughes to give him the extra boost he needs; but most importantly, we’ll see what happens with AJ.

  54. Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    “And for those who do not think a pitching coach matters much consider what Long has been able to do with many of our hitters.”

    I wonder if Long is better than the average hitting coach? If so, how much better? How would we know? Wouldn’t it be unusual for a team to have no hitters who improved when being coached? I don’t think pointing to specific examples of improvement is convincing.

    Let’s say Long was actually better (and he may be). Let’s say he could make a hitter 5% better than the average coach. Wouldn’t it make sense for him not to hire himself out to a team, but open a hitting consultancy instead? Is there a rule against that?

    I understand this thinking borders on heresy but I am curious.

  55. yclept December 23rd, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Wave -

    He could very well quit and just start his own hitting consultant business…Mike Marshall has his own pitching camps and what not; there’s nothing against a person doing that if they wish. Should he do it? Probably not; he’s getting paid pretty darn well to just be a member of the Yankees. I also think the Yankees value him as more than just a hitting coach. The organization seems to realllly like having him on the staff.

  56. J. Alfred Prufrock December 23rd, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    Jerkface December 23rd, 2010 at 4:18 pm
    How does a pitcher manage to not throw 2-4 shut out innings when he knows he can empty the tank in 60 pitches?

    ///uhh gee, maybe because he’s so tight knowing he is on a ridiculously short leash that he’s trying to be too fine?? Maybe because despite having a really super first-ever starter season he’s still a young arm in training and NOT CC Sabathia??Who nonetheless thought it ridiculous??Yathink??

  57. tyanksfan36 December 23rd, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    I think Long actually works with guys in the offseason. I can’t remember who it was but they said he works with someone in the offseason who isn’t a Yankee.

  58. SoS December 23rd, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    “Pretty Shocke”
    ***********

    Hmmm?? I think he meant to say he was “PRETTY BAFFLED”.

  59. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    WYH-

    I know you are a born skeptic.

    And this is perfectly fine with me because I am also.

    Here’s my take.

    With Long, for instance, the proof is in the pudding.

    Many players rave about the job he has done with them.

    In addition, the improved results with Cano, Swisher, Grandy(hopefully), and GGBG all speak for themselves IMO.

    Why doesn’t he open an academy ?

    Don’t know the answer to that one. Maybe he just likes getting a steady paycheck w/o all the other bs that goes into running your own buisness. Who knows ?

    The guy is good and people know it.

  60. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    Yclept-

    I hope Rothschild will very successful with the Yankees.

    He has tons of experience.

    Personally, I wanted someone on the more “scientific” side, i.e. Peterson, or Mike Marshall.

    Let’s see what Mr. R can do.

    Again. The proof is in the pudding.

    Many aspects to being a good pitching coach.

  61. Jerkface December 23rd, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    hh gee, maybe because he’s so tight knowing he is on a ridiculously short leash that he’s trying to be too fine?? Maybe because despite having a really super first-ever starter season he’s still a young arm in training and NOT CC Sabathia??Who nonetheless thought it ridiculous??Yathink??


    Why should he be tight? He has 60 pitches or 4 innings to go. A normal pitcher pitches with an idea that he is only going 100, whats the difference? Joba Chamberlain was SO horrendous with those rules, which were designed with his needs in mind because he didnt want to skip starts, that the rules themselves cannot be held 100% to blame.

    We’re talking about a guy that came up as a reliever, where you only have 1-2 IP and 20-30 pitches to get a job done. And you’re telling me he had no idea what to do with 60 pitches or 4 innings?

    Why does he have to be fine? Whats the difference between that and a real start? If he gave up 4 runs int he first inning of a real start he would not be long for it so whats the diff. Why does he need imaginary innings he has yet to reach to work with to be effective? He can’t be effective for 1 inning? Why is he a reliever then? He gave up 7 runs to the MARINERS in 3 innings. He was simply awful and it was his fault.

  62. Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    yclept-

    I haven’t thought this through, but let’s say of the Yanks’ approximately $200M payroll $100M is attributable to offense.

    Now let’s say Long, because he is a better than average hitting coach, could coach a hitter into being 5% better than the average hitting coach could. Now Long is worth $5M. But he’s only getting paid around $400K (I think, but I could be wrong).

    MTU-

    I think Long is good too. But how good?

  63. J. Alfred Prufrock December 23rd, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    In addition, the improved results with Cano, Swisher, Grandy(hopefully), and GGBG all speak for themselves IMO.

    //Don’t forget to add ARod,who swears by Long and said of him “the guy’s a genius.”that’s high praise from one of the game’s greatest all-time bats.

  64. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    WYH – they dont give out world series rings to private hitting instructors

  65. JoeyA December 23rd, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    This is pure speculation but did the black eye on AJ coincide with Eilands extended absence?

    I have to imagine if Cash says, “He (Eiland) knows.”, there was a specific incident.

  66. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    WYH-

    I’m not putting a number to it as you would prefer but I would just say I think he may be one of the best in baseball.

    And I very glad we have him.

    I am really excited to see what he might be able to teach Jesus and also Russell Martin.

    :)

  67. Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    “WYH – they dont give out world series rings to private hitting instructors”

    Cash is good though.

  68. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    Prufrock-

    I was referring to that in one of my earlier posts.

    Though I did not get specific.

    Thanks for making it explicit.

  69. Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    “I am really excited to see what he might be able to teach Jesus”

    I think we need a less disconcerting handle for JM.

  70. BIG AL December 23rd, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    You need not be a great player, to be a great coach or manager.

    The majority of highly successful manager’s and coaches, were not elite players.

  71. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    WYH-

    Agreed. Jesus has nothing to learn only to teach.

    Let’s go with “Monty”.

    ;)

  72. BIG AL December 23rd, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    MTU -

    You want to see the full Monty be great.

  73. BIG AL December 23rd, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    Jesus Montero – Monster Man!

  74. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    Al-

    great teachers have an exceptional ability to communicate their knowledge. It distinguishes them form the masses.

    Some people have a great deal of knowledge but are completely unable to communicate it effectively.

  75. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Al-

    You’re scaring me taking about showing the the full Monty ?

    Remember we are PG here.

    :)

  76. BIG AL December 23rd, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Mike -

    I think it’s best to wait to see how successful Montero is, before giving him a kickname.

  77. BIG AL December 23rd, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    It’s a master blast off the bat of the Monster Montero.

  78. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Al-

    Too late.

    I’m gonna call him “The Sheik of Slam”.

    :)

  79. BIG AL December 23rd, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Sounds too much like Son of Sam, but, he’ll be killing the baseball.

  80. BIG AL December 23rd, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    Jesus just hit a shoot into the heaven’s.

  81. West Coast Yankee Fan December 23rd, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    I guess Tex would be his one ‘not so good’ project.

  82. LGY December 23rd, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    The only reason for those short outings is because Joba complained so much about having his routine thrown off by skipping his starts.

    Then when they tried to accomodate Joba so he wouldn’t have his starts skipped and could stay on routine he started complaining again.

    The original plan for Joba was what they did with Hughes last season.

  83. LGY December 23rd, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    To which Cashman responded: “He knows why. He was given conditions that needed to be followed. So he knows why.”

    *******

    Eiland was supposed to post his philosophy for keeping pitchers healthy on google, but never did :(

  84. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    Al-

    How about the “Emir of Elevation”.

    :)

  85. randy l. December 23rd, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    “I wonder if Long is better than the average hitting coach?”

    wave your hat-

    the yankees offense was the best in the league, but dropped down 50 runs last year so i don’t really know how good long is.

    i personally don’t like the idea of simply having a pitching coach or a hitting coach who puts his own philosophy in play.

    i think that’s an old fashioned out dated approach to coaching players.

    i think there should be a yankee pitching program and a yankee hitting program. the program would transcend any one hitting or pitching coach but any new coach could add to the collective program that had been developed over the past twenty years say.

    for example, when boggs came over his on high base percentage baseball was passed on . he set an example on how to take pitches. it worked great for 15 years until this approach has started to wane in the past year or so.

    i would make it mandatory that all yankees are taught to work the pitcher at all levels of the organization. i would have scouts look for this kind of player in the first place. the yankees play in yankee stadium . they need left handed pitchers. they need hitters who can hit to right.

    all this stuff needs to be built in to the coaching. having a guy come in and coach something that’s in conflict with being patient for example in hitting would make no sense.

    coaching is the cherry on top of the sunday with all star veteran players. sabathia came to the team ready made. no coach is going to make more than a small change in him one way or the other.

    i think where good coaching can make the most difference is in the minors where ironically the coaching is surprisingly sparse. when you go into a triple a locker room you see a manager, a hitting coach, and a pitching coach , and a trainer. and that’s it.

    in games someone has to coach first, someone has to coach third. who do you think is in the bullpen with the kids out there? no one is out there a lot of the time. maybe an old catcher who is on the team as a player.

    the whole coaching thing is an opportunity for some team to blow everyone else away by breaking with the past and run the minor leagues with a major expansion of effort and resources.

  86. Carl December 23rd, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    Monty is his AAA nickname

  87. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    Al-

    Or the “Lord of Launch” ?

    :)

  88. Jerkface December 23rd, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    Wade Boggs descended to all levels of the minors to teach about taking pitches?

  89. BIG AL December 23rd, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    “I guess Tex would be his one ‘not so good’ project.”

    What people forget, the hitting coach will not go and tell a star player to change anything, the player needs to ask the coach to get involved. That’s why Granderson did not get help until late in the season, when he finally realized he needed help. Elite players never think they need help, except A-Rod, who always was asking for input, trying his best to work on being a better hitter. Jeter didn’t ask for help until September. Don’t blame the coach, blame the egotistical players.

  90. Jerkface December 23rd, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    Yankees have stopped teaching about taking pitches??? (So Cano being taught to take pitches is like a happy accident? Gardner over Melky is a happy accident? Bringing in guys like Berkman, Tex, Swisher, etc ?)

  91. BIG AL December 23rd, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    If Monty was his AAA nickname, that should follow him.

  92. 108 stitches December 23rd, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    Any coach with any team has his job simplified today from the use of video and picking problems apart. The better ones are good at one on one teaching and relating to the hitter or pitcher or for that matter, a baserunner.
    Cashman heavily emphasized when he was interviewing for a pitching coach that video research would be important. Kevin Long is a believer in video and so is Rothschild.
    Long and A-Rod interact many times in the dugout during games / between innings until A-Rod has to leave for his at bat.

  93. Jerkface December 23rd, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    i would make it mandatory that all yankees are taught to work the pitcher at all levels of the organization. i would have scouts look for this kind of player in the first place. the yankees play in yankee stadium . they need left handed pitchers. they need hitters who can hit to right.

    I think they do this. Unfortunately they are limited by the available talent in any draft. At a certain point you’re better off going with high ceiling players regardless of their abilities fitting the organizational philosophy. You can draft all the patient hitters you want but if they suck at baseball you’re not going to get anywhere.

    The Yankees obviously put a premium on patience, based on their trade targets and free agent acquisitions. They didn’t sign nick johnson because he runs fast, after all. Its a little more difficult to draft those kinds of specific players though.

  94. Jerkface December 23rd, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    Randy let me say off the bat that I think its a good idea to have an organizational philosophy or approach to the kind of team you want. I agree with you 100% on that. I just don’t think there is sufficient evidence that the Yankees DON’T have one at the moment. They clearly value patience and power. They’ve also shifted towards defense.

    They are trying to work towards a strike out pitching staff. Their minor league organizational philosophy on pitching is the curveball.

  95. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    Randy-

    I got you down for 25 + dingers from Jesus.

    ;)

  96. BIG AL December 23rd, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    MTU -

    That’s a lot to ask from a rookie, even with his upside.

    I’d be happy to see 15-20 in his first season. He needs to learn the pitchers at the ML level, and it took time for him to adjust to AAA from AA last season.

  97. Tom in N.J. December 23rd, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    Wasn’t it Stick Michael who developed the idea of taking pitches to drive up pitch counts?

  98. Tom in N.J. December 23rd, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    .270/.340/.450 line from Montero.

  99. Yank 97 December 23rd, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    OBP is important, but not as significant when you hit like Cano and Montero do.

  100. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Al-

    Don’t blame me. Talk to Randy. He made the prediction.

    I don’t have one because I’m not even sure when he’ll start with the team.

    I think there’s a reasonable chance he won’t be up until May/June
    unless he puts a few into orbit during ST.

    Which he may very well do.

    NASA is readying telescopes now just to track them.

    ;)

  101. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    Al-

    The Hubbell is usually pretty booked.

  102. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 4:54 pm
    Al-

    How about the “Emir of Elevation”.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Jesus Monterp. “The Messiah Of Mash” takes it to the promise land.

  103. J. Alfred Prufrock December 23rd, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    JF -

    Entirely different deal,entering a game in progress and throwing slider/fb for a couple of innings to hold a lead then a young guy with little experience trying to get guys out using a starter’s weapons and having to set the tone for the game.if he had any young raw starter anxiety,which i’m sure he did,it was compounded by knowing he was going to get yanked before he could break a sweat.

    & HE DOESN’T have to be fine,he THINKS he has to be perfect so he ends up aiming the ball.
    it has to do with mindset,esp for someone who is learning to pitch in the majors.you not getting that it would interfere with the serenity needed to just pitch is just strange.

    As to your question, why is he a reliever, it’s a good one.been asking that since they threw him back in the bullpen.ask your favorite gm.because my answer is: he’s NOT!!!

    7 runs to the MARINERS in 3 innings against the Mariners? WTF?you really play fast & loose with the “small sample size” doctrine, dontcha? 3 innings???your defense of the yanks rearing him on excruciating pitch counts is he sucked in one game against the Mariners in 3 innings?i’m not understanding,are you suggesting the yanks wanted to prove he sucks??

    CC Sabathia, Mr. Mild himself,couldn’t help commenting on the farce of that plan.he’s not exactly a s**t disturber if you haven’t noticed.my guess is he was too unimpressed to let it pass.

  104. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    GB-

    Goes good with the Xmas theme.

    Works for me.

    :)

  105. hardwired7 December 23rd, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    The Old Cashman and the Sea.

    Just like Santiago, you have to keep fighting, Brian. Keep casting that net, you’ll catch the big one eventually.

  106. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    GB-

    On the other hand.

    That could also be a reference to the person who helped end the Irish potato famine.

  107. J. Alfred Prufrock December 23rd, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 4:41 pm
    Prufrock-

    I was referring to that in one of my earlier posts.

    //sorry bro I missed that one.long really has been a lighthouse for lost hitters.he deserves everyone’s praise.

  108. SAS December 23rd, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    There is no question that Montero has to produce in order to stay in the majors….however, he has yet to have an at bat so before we give him fabulous nicknames, he has to produce.

  109. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    Cashman as “Ahab”.

    Keep throwing your harpoon Cash.

    Get that Whale.

    Forget the net, and the minnows.

    ;)

  110. EA December 23rd, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    How about “Trade Bate”?

  111. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    Prufrock-

    A port in every storm.

    ;)

  112. randy l. December 23rd, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    ” I just don’t think there is sufficient evidence that the Yankees DON’T have one at the moment. They clearly value patience and power. They’ve also shifted towards defense.”

    jerkface-

    i think what i’m say is there isn’t really any “they” that’s permanent enough to be a constant.
    eiland leaves and what he taught goes with him. rothschild comes in and brings in what he taught with the cubs to the yankees.

    i just think that’s the wrong way to do things. i think a team like the yankees should have team coaching philosophies in place that generic coaches like eiland have to learn when they arrive. a guy like rick peterson is the kind of guy who sets up programs. eiland is not.

    i’m just saying that the yankees need to have an approach to baseball that is their way of playing it that doesn’t change with every new coach that comes and goes, and that they should double their minor league investment so they can have twice as much coaching personnel at the minor league level.

  113. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    SAS-

    I’m using the power of positive thinking.

    And a healthy dose of practical Mysticism.

    :)

  114. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 5:20 pm
    Prufrock-

    A port in every storm.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Better than a storm in every port.

  115. LGY December 23rd, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    CC Sabathia, Mr. Mild himself,couldn’t help commenting on the farce of that plan.he’s not exactly a s**t disturber if you haven’t noticed.my guess is he was too unimpressed to let it pass.

    ********

    The whole thing was FOR Joba.

    Joba complained about getting his starts skipped.

    The Yankees wanted to do it conventionally and skip starts like every other young starter does.

    However, apparently Joba couldn’t handle that either and made a fuss about that as well.

    If you want to blame anyone for those short starts it is Joba.

  116. BIG AL December 23rd, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    GB7 -

    I’ll call him whatever he likes, so long as he shows, He’s -
    “The Chosen One”

  117. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    GB-

    Please don’t talk to me about storms.

    I’ve almost forgotten what the Sun looks like.

    :(

  118. randy l. December 23rd, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    “I got you down for 25 + dingers from Jesus.”

    mtu -

    that was before they got martin.

    playing time is going to be a problem now.

    i figure that he’ll be up at some point in mid summer though.

  119. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    Randy-

    No revisions allowed.

    :)

  120. BIG AL December 23rd, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    MTU -

    See, I was right, no 25 HR’s this season. Be happy to 15.

  121. jackamir December 23rd, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    Pitching coaches are so overrated.. These are professional Pitchers who have been through years of practice and competing. They know what works for them. Now if you want to add the Mental issues then I agree that the Pitching coach has to be well liked and a respected mentor. I never really got the feeling Eiland had the personality.

  122. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    Al-

    Is he like Keanu Reeves in the “Matrix”. The “One” ?

    :)

  123. SAS December 23rd, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    MTU,

    It is chilly but the sun is out here. It did rain last night. We have been lucky.

  124. BIG AL December 23rd, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    Mike -

    If Montero comes up by ST break, and hits 25 HR’s in that short a period of time, then he may well be Jesus.

  125. SAS December 23rd, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    :arrow: B.A.T. set to honor The Boss

  126. BIG AL December 23rd, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    Not only the “One”, but the Only.

  127. BIG AL December 23rd, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    I’m sick of winter already, come on ST, let’s get it started.

  128. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    Al-

    I’m channeling Montero’s inner Mickey Mantle now.

    I want to get ahead of the curve, so to speak.

    Being pro-active.

    SAS-

    I’m developing a Vitamin D deficiency from lack of Sun.

    Glad you are staying dry.

    Happy Holiday.

  129. Jerkface December 23rd, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    i’m just saying that the yankees need to have an approach to baseball that is their way of playing it that doesn’t change with every new coach that comes and goes,

    How do you know they don’t? Every team in baseball hires and fires pitching coaches, many from outside the organization.

  130. BIG AL December 23rd, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    Mike -

    The CA rains are headed your wasy, and after that, the storm is bringing snow as far south as GA. Killer is being fitted for snow shoes as we speak.

  131. Jerkface December 23rd, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    Maybe Rothschild’s philosophies on pitching align with Cashman and Girardi’s ? He is a ‘strike out guy’.

  132. Bronx Jeers December 23rd, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    Just like Santiago, you have to keep fighting, Brian. Keep casting that net, you’ll catch the big one eventually.

    —————————————————————————————————————————————–

    Like Santiago, Cashmans’ fish was so so strong that it pulled him into deep waters. And by the time he got back to shore, there was nothing left.

    And unfortunately there’s no more 18 foot marlins to be caught.

  133. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    Al-

    Killer is usually drunk or whoring around.

    I’m not sure he would know the difference.

    :)

  134. MTU December 23rd, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    Al-

    GB has his hands full with him.

    Look at how he is always making spelling mistakes and Gb gets blamed for them.

    And he steals GB’s beer all the time.

    He’s a juvenile delinquent. He needs to grow up. Even if it’s only in dog years.

  135. David in Cal December 23rd, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    My organization once had to deal with an employee who was an alcoholic. They engaged a consultant who said the best thing for the employee as well as the organization was to give the employee specific goals with the understanding that she’d be terminated if the goals were missed. Then, to precisely follow that plan and not give her extra chances. She did miss her goals and was terminated.

    It’s unfair to speculate, but this reminds me of Eiland’s termination and is consistent with Cashman’s comment.

  136. Against All Odds December 23rd, 2010 at 10:59 pm

    # J. Alfred Prufrock December 23rd, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Who’s bright idea was it to have Chamberlain’s innings managed by pitching 3-4 inning stints?surely the pitching coach got a vote on that and either conceived it or gave it a heartfelt,proactive thumbs up.that’s grounds alone for firing.that was only the dumbest s**t ever.y’all don’t remember but even Sabathia raised an eyebrow and said something like ‘any pitcher would have trouble succeeding under those conditions’ or something like that.that doesn’t sound like a teammate who is burned up that one of the young starters is a flaky gadabout that doesn’t take his work seriously.that sounds like a veteran pitcher too flabbergasted to play the PR game and NOT speak his mind on a ridiculous pitching schedule for Chamaberlain.it was either Eiland’s bright idea or some other dunce’s bright idea that Eiland thought was just marvy.
    ———————————————

    The 3-4 relief starts was one of the dumbest things they have ever done. That’s when it became obvious they had no idea what they were doing.

  137. ADam December 24th, 2010 at 1:41 am

    The Reason he Knows why rhymes with shmalcohal Shmeehab……


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