Not a creature was stirring
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 24, 2010 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Last year, it was on December 22 that the Yankees finally added a significant piece to their rotation, making the trade with Atlanta that brought Javier Vazquez back to New York.
Two years ago, it was on December 23 that the Yankees completed a massive offseason by signing first baseman Mark Teixeira as the third and final piece of a free agent overhaul.
In the recent past, the days leading up to Christmas have been productive for the Yankees.
This year, it’s already Christmas Eve. and if the Yankees have a holiday surprise in store, they’ve kept it well hidden.
The Dodgers do have six starters. I prefer any of them to Padilla. They also are sour on Broxton. That is another possibility I presume. Gardner might be a roster player of interest to them looking at their roster..
I wouldn’t trade Montero for any pitcher on the Dodgers.
is there a link ? to this Dodger talk .
Rich,
I probably would for Kershaw….though I would think long and hard about it.
I doubt they’d trade him anyway. Billingsley though they may be more willing to part with as he’s getting more expensive and they may want to free up money to try to sign some of their other guys ( like Kershaw) long term. Id at least ask about him.
No links…just speculation.
thanks Blake
blake
There are just too many vulnerable aging position players on the roster and pitchers are too fragile. I think they need to add rather than subtract potential impact bats.
King Felix is a generational pitcher, so he’s the exception to the general rule, but I still don’t want to trade Montero because apart from Cano, every other position player is either over 30, has questions about their true ability (some really big ones), or has shown signs of serious decline.
Blake-
Montero for Kershaw.
In a heartbeat.
All’s quiet on the Eastern Front.
Cashman won’t do anything significant until mid-week next week or into the new year.
Arbitration coming soon to spike some interest.
I would trade Montero for a proven top quality left handed pitcher like Kershaw. He has great value. That’s why the Dodgers would never consider that deal.
How about Gardner and Brackman for Billingsley?
Watching MLB Hot Stove for best teams in baseball.
Mitch Williams says Tigers are 3rd best team and describes Coke having “electric stuff”
Harold Reynolds can’t pronounce Bucholz’s name correctly.
Rosenthal says the Rockies are the fifth best team in baseball. Just cause.
I am not sure why I watch this stuff, let alone think that these guys really give any reporting insights to moves or analysis.
Rich,
That’s a fair position and I understand your stance. However there is risk in Montero as well….we all think he’ll hit and know his upside but there is no guarantee of it. Kershaw is young, cheap, left handed, and already has shown what he can do in the big leagues. With the Yankees catching depth I think it would be a good swap but that’s just my opinion. I certainly would be fine keeping Montero.
And Williams is suggesting Hammels for Upton. What? So they trade Upton a stud under contract control for Cole who would need a deal after a year and is a year removed from a sub-par year. Diamondbacks are trying to get away from paying big deals. They would have held onto Haren.
Still watching, but more for the amusement.
Clayton Kershaw is great, but I wouldn’t call him a proven quality pitcher. He still had trouble going deep into games last year, if I recall (I had him on my fantasy team), and every once and a while he’d have a complete trash game.
He’s shaping up to be elite, though.
Would everybody please be quiet.
Out $#!tbag GM is trying to sleep!
And by the way, who dies and made Javier Vazquez “a significant piece”???
Blake-
Change that. In the wingbeat of a hummingbird.
Radiokev,
That’s the point…he’s very young and has elite stuff from the left side.
I would trade Gardner and Brackman for Billingsley assuming that a suitable replacement for Gardner is already in the works.
People put up with that MLB Channel Hot Stove stuff for the same reason they buy videos of fish tanks and CD’s of waves crashing on the beach. It’s “almost like the real thing.”
And right now, “almost like the real thing” is the closest I’m getting to the smell of the dirt, oil and leather that is my old glove and the feel of the first warm rays of sun on the back of my neck.
Mitch Williams? Reynolds? Rosenthal? Thanks guys, for keeping the real GM seats warm. The real insiders aren’t talking, they’re working.
Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it.
Maybe just a few lumps of coal in the stocking this year.
I wouldn’t trade Montero for any pitcher on the Dodgers.
——–
Kershaw is 23, left-handed and had a 1.18 WHIP and 212 K’s in 204 IP last year. I would drive Montero to LA myself for that deal.
Yes. . i would trade Montero for Kershaw as well.
Rich, I agree……and the Yankees farm has nothing but pitchers and catchers in it. Cash has not done a good job in stocking the farm with position prospects…. and the ones he had, like Austin Jackson, he traded. I wonder just how much patience Cashman has for kids…..
There are just too many vulnerable aging position players on the roster and pitchers are too fragile. I think they need to add rather than subtract potential impact bats.
———
They can always buy an impact bat. Bats are everywhere. A number 1 or 1A starter like a Kershaw is a rare commodity.
A-Rod and Jeter are old but reasonably durable. Posada is a part-time player. The rest of the position players are fine.
Kershaw hasn’t even hit arbitration yet….he’s making the minimum so the Dodgers have very little reason to move him and would likely love to try and sign him as the Marlins did with Johnson and the Mariners did with Felix. 3 guys they are going to have to pay soon if they wand to keep are Kershaw, Kemp, and Ethier. I could see them being willing to move Billingsley ( who’s an arb 2 next year) to clear some future payroll so that they could pursue extensions for some of those guys. Only thing is that the Dodgers made a lot of moves this winter to position themselves to compete in that division so its just hard to say if they’d trade their #2 starter right now.
Good morning and a very happy holiday to all who celebrate.
murphydog is spot on.
Got a lot to do today, just wanted to check in, and wish everyone a Merry Christmas, and to those who don’t celebrate my best wishes for the season.
If they are talking to the Dodgers, rest assured Kershaws name has not been discussed.
You guys are nuts.
We have arguably the best hitting prospect in all of baseball, a farm that is stacked with pitching prospects, and people still find reason to complain.
Why do you guys think we’re in such a big quandry with our pitching this year? It’s because the pitchers on the FA market are not very good, and they all are overpaid. The top young pitchers get locked up long term and rarely get traded before they get expensive.
The Yanks clearly don’t want to ever break 2 young pitcher’s into the rotation at the same time again. This is the year to break in the Nova’s, Phelp’s and Noesi’s.
Heck, I’d rather deal with the inconsistencies of a young pitcher as my #5, then Jake Westbrook.
Try not to listen to that MLB channel on XM radio. I was in the car yesterday and Bowden and his co-host were interviewing Nick Cafardo. They all decided that Boston is at least a 100-105 win team.
They also decided the Yankees will be lucky to be close to 90 wins and get an F for the off season and Boston gets an A+.
The only moment of truth that came out of Cafardo’s mouth was that if Beckett isn’t Beckett, the whole house of cards in Boston falls down. He basically pinned their entire season on Josh Beckett becoming a sub 3 ERA top of the rotation ace.
That said, the tone of the hosts with Cafardo was downright filled with glee that they could sit there in December and declare the Yankees dead in the water and call the new Boston team one of the best teams ever assembled.
I have a hard time buying that when that lineup is 4 deep, 5 if you count Ortiz, which I do not.
As for Beckett turning back the clock I think we’ve watched enough of him these past seasons to know he is what he is. When the game starts to slip from him he hits people. He’s a punk. I’m glad that’s who their season is riding on.
“I wonder just how much patience Cashman has for kids…..”
I hope he has more patience than certain Yankee fans!
My point about Kershaw is, yeah, he does have great stuff. He isn’t exactly proven though. Far be it from me to declare doom upon his career, but young great pitchers go out of whack all the time due to injuries or mechanics or some larger issues, before they realize their full potential.
Not that trading for Kershaw would be bad in theory, but not a sure thing.
Dibble said AJ would win 15+ next year this morning.
Dibble is an idiot, but IMO, I think AJ will have a much better 2011 season than a lot of Yankee fans are thinking of him.
Happy Holiday to all of you.
Peace, health, happiness, and prosperity in the coming year.
I’m out. The Sun is too, so it’s off to shot some photos.
Well I don’t think so, Craw…….he traded Jackson (which I was fine with – I love Granderson) and he’s just completely given up on Joba.
Edit: “shoot”. I’m the one who should be shot for my typing.
I would totally trade Gardner for a rotation arm, but only if that precludes a deal for a replacement. And who are the only OF’ers we heard trade rumors about…Upton, Rasmus, Kemp, Sizemore? Then, we would have to give up even more.
I think AJ bounces back this year as well…..him doing so would be a big lift. If Pettite comes back then I think they are ok in the rotation. If he doesn’t then I think they need another quality arm out there. Lot of time.left before ST.
Happy holidays to all in Yankeeland, wherever it might be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN7LW0Y00kE
Happy holidays to all my fellow Yankee fans. May we all get some pitching under our tree.
Happy Christmas fellow Loduders.
Hilarious video from some actual nuns:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz_ZQToJH4I
“Kershaw is 23, left-handed and had a 1.18 WHIP and 212 K’s in 204 IP last year. I would drive Montero to LA myself for that deal.”
jt-
even if you make it past the northeast, mtu would cut you off in the west and leave you in one of those canyons with no water and a cactus where the sun doesn’t shine.
… however , i’ll chip in for gas if you want to drive cashman out there though
nly moment of truth that came out of Cafardo’s mouth was that if Beckett IS Beckett, the whole house of cards in Boston falls down. He basically pinned their entire season on Josh Beckett becoming a sub 3 ERA top of the rotation ace.
///fixed.
Happy Holidays everyone!
I agree, AJ bounces back–been saying it for weeks.
A very safe, healthy and joyous Holidays to everyone.
i think burnett will be closer to his normal erratic season that his consistently bad season he had last year.
in other words, i think he’s be back to a low 4.00 era.
that said, with no pettitte the yankees have a big hole in the rotation.
…and what happens when the inevitable injury to a starter happens.
teams need eight starters to come up with five.
who are the yankee 8 starters who could pitch in april and may if necessary?
some are pretty casual here about trading Montero.a potentially mythical middle of the order bat to twin with Cano for years to come.
I let the Dodgers keep Kershaw & take my chances with one Manuel Banuelos to complement CC for LHSP and keep the Boy Monster/Big Hurt Junior on MY side.
randy
“who are the yankee 8 starters who could pitch in april and may if necessary?”
———————————————————————————
Thats why we have total trust in the GM to take care of these things.
who are the yankee 8 starters who could pitch in april and may if necessary?
*******
CC
Phil
AJ
Nova
Mitre
Noesi
Brackman
Phelps
Hopefully Andy in there as well.
Merry Christmas Eve Lohudders!
Keep you drinking and posting to a minimum or you will end up rambling on like randy!
CC
Phil
AJ
Nova
Mitre
Noesi
Brackman
Phelps
………………………….
If that’s the depth chart on Opening Day, then Boston doesn’t have to worry about its season riding on Beckett.
8-starters as of now;
CC, Hughes, AJ, Nova, Mitre, (6) Noesi, (7) Brackman,
To get #8, then NY would have to add either Phelps of DJ Mitchell to the 40 man roster.
Betances and Banuelos just do not have the innings and/or experience yet to be considered as viable alternatives. Warren is in the same boat..
I would be shocked if Cashman doesn’t get another starter, just wouldn’t make sense, I would imagine NY is comfortable working in Nova as a #5 but Mitre needs to be in the BP as a long-relief option.
Need Andy to re-up for another year. And or change their mind on Joba as a SP option.
manny to yanks as rh bat rumor – WHAT AN EARLY APRIL FOOL’S PRANK lol
If that’s the depth chart on Opening Day, then Boston doesn’t have to worry about its season riding on Beckett
******
The Yankees were 6 games better than the Red Sox last year with 2 replacement level pitchers in their rotation and Pettitte out for half the season last year.
The Yankees 3 to 5 in their rotation had close to a 5 ERA last season.
taking a baking break to wish everyone Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas to those who celebrate.
I have been watching various things while I cook:
last night was a great Yankeeography called Award Winners
The latest Ken Burns baseball, which I have only watched part of, focuses on NYY…can’t believe I missed that one in the past, I thought I had seen parts of all of them
Yankee Magazine had some nice feature articles…for all you dog lovers, the Yankees recently sponsored a fund raiser by RescueInk…I have to amend my views of Randy Levine…he has 4 dogs, and is very supportive of dog rescue efforts
“some are pretty casual here about trading Montero.a potentially mythical middle of the order bat to twin with Cano for years to come.”
at least 50% of the blog wanted to trade cano when he had his down year.
some people look at it as just trading stats. they don’t have any loyalty to the player as a yankee. cano came up as a yankee. he went through a lot to get to where he was as a yankee. i think coming up in the yankee system makes a player little tougher simply because a player knows he has to excel to ever crack the big league team.
when a player can perform with that pressure on him, i think the yankees have a keeper. obviously montero has performed under the spotlight of being a yankee. even now he still has to prove himself to get to the big league yankees.
if he was in most organizations, he’d be starting for their major league team this coming season. montero has made it all the way through the yankee minor league gauntlet.
why trade him right before he completes the process?
evan longoria could have gotten the rays a very good starting pitcher before he made his mlb debut.
what could they get now? it pays to complete the process.
yeah, he might not reach his potential, but the yankees have to take the chance and complete the process and have another homegrown core player .
I think folks need to understand that Betances and Banuelos are at best a year away and that there will likely be some early struggles and adjustment periods with them when they do arrive as there is with most young pitchers…. It’s not unreastlic to say that it may be 2013 or 2014 until they are consistent pieces of the rotation. We can hope it happens earlier than that but it may not and if it doesn’t then Yankee fans need to be ok with it.
Hector Noesi?
he hasn’t had hardly any triple a experience from what i see.
scratch him for april and may unless you want to rush the poor kid.
brackman?
no triple a experience .
he’s not one of the eight for april and may
david phelps-
okay for #8.
it looks to me like the yankees are missing two starters right now .
If Andy comes back then I think the Yanks will be fine with the winner of a competition for the 5th spot in the rotation. Sabathia, Hughes, Pettite, Burnett, Nova/Joba/Phelps etc has the potential to be a really good staff. If Pettite retires then I think they néed to try and use some of the excess in their farm system to deal for a quality arm to replace him.
Randy, I’m guessing that the Yanks sign two cheap reclaimation projects for the early part of the season to fill in any holes and if the don’t perform, they’ll cost practically nothing to drop, but, it buys time to get pitchers like Noesi, Brackman and Warren some AAA experience. For most of April, they won’t need the 5th start anyway.
jt-
even if you make it past the northeast, mtu would cut you off in the west and leave you in one of those canyons with no water and a cactus where the sun doesn’t shine.
… however , i’ll chip in for gas if you want to drive cashman out there though
———-
Sounds good Randy. I’ll call you from the road if we need some money!
This will probably be my only chance over the next couple of days to wish everyone (those who celebrate anyway) a Merry Christmas. I hope Santa brings you everything you want.
Upstate Kate – that episode on NY baseball is one of favorites, also.
randy, much agreed about Montero, and the young starters. That’s a big reason why I’m in favor of signing Kevin Millwood, or someone similar, to hold the fort while the Brackmans and Noesis continue their development.
And, again, Merry Christmas.
# yanksince57 December 24th, 2010 at 11:49 am
manny to yanks as rh bat rumor – WHAT AN EARLY APRIL FOOL’S PRANK lol
**************************
Manny to the Yankees rumor = The Nightmare Before Christmas
Only 3 options :
- deal for 2 of the best starters available
- sign a free agent RH for the bullpen
- force feed the arms in the farm system
rehab projects need not apply
Last year, it was on December 22 that the Yankees finally added a significant piece to their rotation, making the trade with Atlanta that brought Javier Vazquez back to New York.
________________________________________________________________________
Well not this year.
Chad the only significant piece of the Vazquez deal, was that he was a significant piece of cr#p. Maybe not as big as Nick Johnson, but in the same league. The Yanks sure got coal for a present on that deal.
I don’t see the Yankees going into the season with as much risk as they currently have in the bullpen and rotation. I think Burnett will bounce back but having him and 2 prospects in the rotation could really tax the bullpen which is already a bit thin.
However this pitching thing shakes out, we likely will not have a great rotation or even close to it. That’s a reality, and since pitching is the name of the game, that the Yankees with their $213 million dollar payroll find themselves in this position is inexcusable to fans and I am sure some internally. There is no question IMO that Cashman bears the responsibility for this; I feel that is just a factual statement.
But, here we are. The impact young guns in the minors are not close to ready and as Blake astutely pointed out, even when they are, to expect too much right away would not be realistic. Cashman will not go into the season with Mitre as his fifth starter, I just cannot believe that. I think he will pick someone up, who I don’t know but think he will most likely be a bottom of the rotation guy. I’m sure Cashman will also sign some pen and bench help.
If there was ever a year for the bats to pick this team up, this is the year. Jeter has to have a comeback year and Swisher, Posada and Granderson need to pound the ball. And A-Rod and Teixeira need to have the monster seasons that they are capable of. And that means April and May for Tex. We cannot afford to be seven games out June 1st.
It should be interesting to say the least.
blake December 24th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
If Andy comes back then I think the Yanks will be fine with the winner of a competition for the 5th spot in the rotation. Sabathia, Hughes, Pettite, Burnett, Nova/Joba/Phelps etc has the potential to be a really good staff.
_______________________________________________________________________
Blake, you might get three good starters out of that mix. It’s also a staff that could wear out a bullpen big time. CC we all know is the horse usually. AJ and Phil make the big mistakes and they never get deep into games. I cringe the thought of AJ facing a lineup like Boston and putting us down 5-6 runs before we even get a chance to get going.
” For most of April, they won’t need the 5th start anyway.”
gb7-
yes, with the bad weather, the 5th guy gets skipped a lot.
it all gets down to injuries that frost month. one injury to sabathia, hughes, or burnett and then things are kind of thin.
the yankees can squeak though the springs long as there are no injuries to the starters, especially if the offense gets going earlier than usual, but the offense seems to struggle early on. i wonder if there’s anything they can do to get the veterans hitting more like the back of their card before mid may.
teixeira just killed them last april.
Does anyone actually believe the Yankees are not being held up by Pettitte’s decision right now? Think about the comments on this blog? “If pettitte comes back we are ok, if not, Cashman will need to look for someone via trade”. I think the wait for Pettitte now is actually a bigger issue than the wait for Lee. If Lee didn’t come, we didn’t have to look for another arm, but if pettitte doesn’t we absolutely have to. So to think andy not committing to playing is a non issue is naïve. We need an answer from him and we need it soon. Pretending Cashman is operating the same whether andy is coming back or not is a complete misread of the situation.
It’s funny how Red Sox fans are counting on Beckett to be great, and Yankees fans are counting on Burnett to be awful, yet both have almost the same exact careers and Burnett has actually been the better of the two the past 3 years (more innings, better ERA).
Everyone up in Boston is also counting on Pedroia and Youkilis to be awesome, yet some Yankee fans pencil in both Arod and Tex as question marks, even though they NEVER FAIL to give you 30 HR/100 RBI. Funny stuff.
Blake
I think Burnett will bounce back
________________________________________________________________________
I’ve seen alot of threads like this, but no facts. We all want to see AJ get back, but what exactly is going to change to make it happen?
Randy
I agree you need to be 7 to 8 deep to get through the season but I think you are overestimating what you need the first two months of the season.
You usually barely need a 5th starter the first month
“That’s a big reason why I’m in favor of signing Kevin Millwood, or someone similar, to hold the fort while the Brackmans and Noesis continue their development.”
joe for long island-
sounds good to me. the yankees will need an innings eater and you need a veteran to do that.
Just stopping by to wish a very Merry Christmas to all those who celebrate!
Maybe Santa will bring AJ a better brain.
Gary,
Actually the fact is that 2010 is the outlier when you look at AJ’s career. He’s always been inconsistent but he’s never been anywhere close to as bad as he was last season. Sure he may be not better in 2011 but I was encouraged by his ALCS outing, am hoping Rothschild can help him, and usually choose to look at the glass half full of things.
Carlo December 24th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Does anyone actually believe the Yankees are not being held up by Pettitte’s decision right now?
_________________________________________________________________________
Carlos, I just think the whole thing is stupid right now. It’s been almost three months since the season ended. I don’t care who it is, you take a player on a team and he takes this long? Just like the Lee thing, deep down I think he wants to quit, but if he gets talked into it is his heart really into it.
I don’t know what to expect from Andy even if he comes back. The high level expectations set by some here may well be unfounded. It sounds like the money is in the bank. I think Andy is at the point that Mussina, O’Neil and a few others were at. It well be the right time for him to step down and close out on a high.
However this pitching thing shakes out, we likely will not have a great rotation or even close to it.
*******
If Andy comes back they certainly can have a great rotation.
They had one of the best in baseball the first half of 2010.
And of course there is always the trade deadline to improve the rotation.
“Well I don’t think so, Craw…….he traded Jackson (which I was fine with – I love Granderson) and he’s just completely given up on Joba.”
So if Cashman trades a prospect for an established player, he has no patience?
If he’s completely given up on Joba, how come he hasn’t traded him then?
See, the last time Andy was interviewed after 2010 ended, he said pitching was still in his blood, and you could hear the yearning in his voice to pitch again. His family has given him their blessing. I am thinking it is how the groin plays out that will be the determining factor.
Erin December 24th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
# yanksince57 December 24th, 2010 at 11:49 am
manny to yanks as rh bat rumor – WHAT AN EARLY APRIL FOOL’S PRANK lol
**************************
Manny to the Yankees rumor = The Nightmare Before Christmas
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
What a word smith. Genuis! Well put Erin. Merry Christmas and yes we are off to ST in 2011 with Kate and Erica.
Comet
Make that **Genius**
“Maybe Santa will bring AJ a better brain”
i used my amazon prime free shipping to send rothschild a stun gun for his trips to the mound with AJ and Joba.
i figure after the first few visits with it, they’ll have an incentive to throw strikes and not shake off catchers.
blake, no problem with optimism, but we haven’t heard anything technically that corrects the problems he had last year. Too many 2 inning 6 run shellings so something had to be obvious. To me his approach and his control are the main issues. Too many walks too much missing in the middle of the plate. The batters think they have the edge now and in certain respects they do. If he doesn’t fix his control problem he is dead meat out there. Just add it’s not true of only AJ. If you don’t have good control at this level you aren’t going to be successful.
I agree, our rotation will be fine with Andy back being Andy and AJ not all out sucking. Odd year AJ isn’t a bad thing. & news flash: The Red Sox haven’t improved their pitching either. And with all this talk of our getting older, The RS pitchers include those same pitchers in Beckett, Lackey and Wakefield who continue to trend downward . Meanwhile the Rays still have no hitting to speak of… Matt Joyce, Sean Rodriguez and Ruggiero… Ugh! Who is protecting Longoria? The Rays are the ones who should get Manny to hit after Longo…
Now the bullpen on the other hand…
“The Yankees were 6 games better than the Red Sox last year with 2 replacement level pitchers in their rotation and Pettitte out for half the season last year.”
And how would that be different than what we have this year? Except without Andy for a whole year, instead of 2.5 months.
And if the premise is that AJ will bounce back, Hughes will improve, Nova will take a step forward, etc. you can do the same for Beckett, Lackey, Buchholz, Dice-K etc. and the advantage will be negated. If AJ is going to bounce back, why can’t Beckett?
LGY December 24th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
However this pitching thing shakes out, we likely will not have a great rotation or even close to it.
*******
If Andy comes back they certainly can have a great rotation.
They had one of the best in baseball the first half of 2010.
And of course there is always the trade deadline to improve the rotation.
*******
Not meaning to get hung up on semantics LGY, but I wouldn’t use the word great Andy or no Andy. No one is ranking the Yankees rotation in the top ten and they shouldn’t. Pettitte is older and injury prone and one can’t expect that much out of him again and again. Burnett has always been an average pitcher, he is 34 years old, his velocity dropped last year, and lifetime he is 110-100 with an ERA of 4. And Nova and Mitre, are well, Nova and Mitre.
Headed out. Everyone have a Very Merry Christmas! Wish for Santa to bring some pitching but try not to worry about the Yankees too much for the next couple day
Merry Christmas!
randy l. December 24th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
“Maybe Santa will bring AJ a better brain”
_______________________________________________________________________
Somehow I stumbled on this program on TLC or discovery channel where these bad boy car reno shop guys were going to fix up AJ’s car. 3 million watts and a few weeks later the totally black, loud, mean ride was delievered complete with low profile tires, wheels, the whole works. Of course AJ was Happy. I just shook my head and though well that’s AJ they had a great guy for the show.
I wonder where MLB ranked the Giants last pre-season?
D man
“The Yankees were 6 games better than the Red Sox last year with 2 replacement level pitchers in their rotation and Pettitte out for half the season last year.”
And how would that be different than what we have this year? Except without Andy for a whole year, instead of 2.5 months.
________________________________________________________________________
DMan you forgot about all the Red Sox injuries and the players they sent packing and the ones they just picked up. It’s easy to see them being 10 wins better next year and the Yanks fighting to win as many as they did.
“If AJ is going to bounce back, why can’t Beckett?”
the good news about aj is he stunk while being healthy. he mad 33 starts.
beckett is starting to break down physically- only 21 starts last year and 27 in 2008.
# comet December 24th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
What a word smith. Genuis! Well put Erin. Merry Christmas and yes we are off to ST in 2011 with Kate and Erica.
Comet
*******************************
Thanks comet!
Can’t wait for ST
Have a very Merry Christmas
People are setting Burnett up to fail with the expectations they are setting for him. Now he has to be a key cog in the rotation? When we were getting Lee, he was pegged as the best/most expensive #5 starter in baseball and we could hide him there.
I’d be ecstatic if he matches Lackey’s numbers from last year… 200 innings of 4.4 ERA ball.
WCYF
You may not use the word great but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
I am got in front of my computer but I believe the Yankees were top 3 in both ERA and innings pitched from their rotation the first half of 2010.
Pettite is injury prone now that he suffered one injury? Look at his innings pitched the years prior to one groin pull.
The idiots that rank these rotations on TV are a waste of time anyway. 2 years in a row these experts said the Red Sox have FIVE ACES! How did that work out?
Pitchers are too unpredictable both performance and injury wise for this stuff to matter.
Gary December 24th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
D man
“The Yankees were 6 games better than the Red Sox last year with 2 replacement level pitchers in their rotation and Pettitte out for half the season last year.”
And how would that be different than what we have this year? Except without Andy for a whole year, instead of 2.5 months.
________________________________________________________________________
DMan you forgot about all the Red Sox injuries and the players they sent packing and the ones they just picked up. It’s easy to see them being 10 wins better next year and the Yanks fighting to win as many as they did.
———————————————————————————————————————-
10 games better? Did you open up your Christmas baggie early or something? NYYs had their own injuries and Boston will have issues trying to fit in all of those “great” closers into new roles. Thet also lost whatever bench they had last year. They have one pitcher to back up injuries and nothing in the system.
I hate seeing blurbs like these, ouch!
“You can tell it’s getting to be what passes for desperation time in New York when rumors involving hot-button names like Manny’s and Johnny Damon’s start to make the rounds. Nearly two months into the offseason, the Yankees have only Russell Martin to show for their efforts, and that obviously isn’t going to placate the masses”.
– Marc Lancaster at Fanhouse
“the good news about aj is he stunk while being healthy. he mad 33 starts.
beckett is starting to break down physically- only 21 starts last year and 27 in 2008.”
If Burnett puts up the numbers he did last year, we would wish he was on the DL.
He had the worst season of any starter in Yankee history to make at least 30 starts. From June on, he had the worst ERA in baseball among qualifiers (6.48).
WCYF – 2011 is going to be a lot about hoping and praying.
Yanks78. I agree, we have a lot riding on quite a few players doing a better job this year than last. Burnett, Jeter, Posada, Teixeira, Granderson.
We have some significant holes to fill. Two starting pitchers, an eighth inning guy, the bench. I believe Cashman and staff are working as hard as possible behind the scenes to improve the club. I never questioned his work ethic or intent, just his judgment and results sometimes.
NYY not likely to bring back Thames. What a shame!!!
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....t=My+Yahoo
“If Burnett puts up the numbers he did last year, we would wish he was on the DL.”
staying healthy is a good thing.
i think eiland had run out of ideas for burnett last year mechanically.
i now nothing about rothschild , but he’s a veteran pitching coach and should at least have some fresh ideas for burnett.
as your numbers show , the only thing burnett can do is get better because he was as bad as it gets.
i would not be surprised at all to see burnett out pitch beckett for the year.
West Coast Yankee Fan December 24th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
I hate seeing blurbs like these, ouch!
“You can tell it’s getting to be what passes for desperation time in New York when rumors involving hot-button names like Manny’s and Johnny Damon’s start to make the rounds. Nearly two months into the offseason, the Yankees have only Russell Martin to show for their efforts, and that obviously isn’t going to placate the masses”.
– Marc Lancaster at Fanhouse
______
& my response is who the heck is Marc Lancaster, and why do we care what he thinks?
Merry Christmas to you and yours, Comet. Yeah, Thames has the bat NYYs need, power from the right side and is listed at the needed position. It’s a pity that he isn’t about 25% better on the defense. He’d be perfect.
Comet he can’t play the field.
Gary – Oh, I agree with you. The media said the same thing about us after our offseason splurge in 2009.
“Yeah they added Tex, Burnett, CC, but they also lost their best pitcher in Mussina, Andy was awful down the stretch, Wang is coming off an injury. Swisher won’t replace Abreu’s numbers, and Giambi/Tex is more of a defensive upgrade than offensive. Jeter/ARod/Cano/Damon all had down years. Meanwhile, Tampa is adding Price to the rotation and Boston signed Smoltz/Penny/Saito, the Yanks signed a lot of guys, but they didn’t make up the 6-7 game ground on their competitors. They are also old and their key players are starting to decline.”
They neglected to mention that we lost Posada/Matsui for half a season, Andy was hurt in the 2nd half,etc. Yankees fans are now doing that with the Sox and ignoring their injuries, thinking that Beckett/Lackey won’t bounce back, etc.
People make it too simplistic and try and carry over all the results from one year and apply it to the next. This isin’t the NBA, it doesn’t work like that. There is A LOT of variance, especially when you are talking about the caliber (and age) of the players on both rosters. The 2008 vs. 2009 Yankees are the best example of that. Yeah, the FAs we signed were productive, but our key players (Cano, A-Rod, Jeter, Damon, Matsui, Jorge, Andy, etc.) all had major bounce back years and stayed healthy and that was why we went as far as we did.
# Crawdaddy December 24th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
“Well I don’t think so, Craw…….he traded Jackson (which I was fine with – I love Granderson) and he’s just completely given up on Joba.”
So if Cashman trades a prospect for an established player, he has no patience?
If he’s completely given up on Joba, how come he hasn’t traded him then?
—————————————————————————–
Too stubborn to do it
Easy. Like a good business man, Cashman is trying to increase the value of his “assets” before making any move.
Randy, do you think that getting Burnett to back off on the effort he puts into each pitch would increase the spead and movement. It worked for Koufax, Johnson and Ryan. Seems to me that the harder he tries to throw, the wilder he gets and the less speed and movement he has.
yankeefeminista – it’s not a matter of caring what he thinks, it’s indicative of what many writers and analysts are saying and there is some truth to it and that’s not fun to come to grips with as a Yankee fan. Let’s face it, Damon and Manny are still available for a reason, they are old and way past their prime and neither is a viable option in the field. It’s true that Martin is the sum total of our off-season efforts to date.
Shouldn’t Rothschild be the one to determine whether or not Joba can start?
He is a non-biased source and has been one of baseball’s best pitching coaches for 30 years. I would trust his opinion over Cashman, Girardi, Nardi, Eppler, etc. (and whatever Eliand told them, which they are probably factoring into their analysis). He’s worked with countless pitchers in 3 different baseball eras. I would think he would be the best authority on Joba.
Blake, that rotation is still a lot of hoping and praying: that Phil improves, that AZ improves a LOT and that Andy pitches as he did in 2010 – not to mention that he stays healthy.
If Burnett pitches to a .500 winning pct last year the Yanks are going to the WS.
If Andy comes back, they are the same staff as last season minus Vasquez.
Get off Cash’s back, the media will always find something negative, doesn’t mean you have to believe them.
West Coast Yankee Fan December 24th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
yankeefeminista – it’s not a matter of caring what he thinks, it’s indicative of what many writers and analysts are saying and there is some truth to it and that’s not fun to come to grips with as a Yankee fan. Let’s face it, Damon and Manny are still available for a reason, they are old and way past their prime and neither is a viable option in the field. It’s true that Martin is the sum total of our off-season efforts to date.
_____
It only shows the dearth of the free agent market generally and the solid core we already possess that other teams lack. Moves for their own sake are counterproductive. Aside from signing Lee, every other move had a caveat, be in length of contract, cost, or players given up in return. What would you have done differently? I love Crawford, but the contract/length is ridiculous. I loved Wood, but he is a risk for two years and at the price he wanted. Greinke deal was a risk and not worth the cost. The bullpen FA costs have been prohibitive as well. & relief pitchers are erratic, in general. What would you have wanted the Yanks to do?
We were not outbid for Lee or Wood, they didn’t want to play here.
Crawford was never an option, we just upped the rs price for him.
Greinke was not worth Montero.
We are stacked at every position, we need a reliever and a utility OF/IF, enough with the gloom and doom already.
Betsy is right on this, especially about Burnett. What leads anyone to believe Burnett will have a good year? He’s 34 and is losing velocity slowly. In my opinion, he has managed to be a .500 pitcher in his career because he has great physical attributes namely a great arm. But his mechanics are terrible and his mental makeup doesn’t help. I honestly hope like all Yankee fans that he will turn it around, but I just don’t see what would lead one to think is a realistic possibility.
I’ll ask this question. If Burnett didn’t have that god awful contract with $50 million dollars left on it, is there anyone that wouldn’t want to trade him?
” do you think that getting Burnett to back off on the effort he puts into each pitch would increase the spead and movement.”
gb7-
let me put it this way, if we put livan’s brain in aj’s body, our new creation would win 25 games.
velocity is only one part of pitching.
aj seems to throw two pitches. hitters can guess right 50 % of the time.
where’s the deception?
rothschild needs to not only get burnett’s mechanics fixed, but he really needs to encourage him to add a third pitch.
WC, he’ll probably improve, but then it would be hard not to. In order for the Yankees to have even a good rotation, AJ has to improve a LOT. He was OK in 2009 – not great. Phil has to pitch like a #2 starter – that’s a lot of pressure on him.
D-Man, I agree with what you’re saying. But the Yankees offense had a historic year in 2009 with a lineup full of all-stars all compiling above average seasons. The Red Sox lineup isn’t as deep as that one to begin with, and then they would have to suffer no major injuries AND all have great years to match the 2009 Yankees. That type of luck doesn’t happen very often.
GB7 Merry Christmas right back at you and to Killer as well from Emma and Abbie!
It seems that many think AJ is the key to this team next year.
After all my ranting and raving against him, believe it or not, I think he will bounce back next year and the new PC will be the reason.
With CC, Hughes (don’t understand the doubting of Phil, he will have one more year experience under his belt), I believe Andy will be back, as well as AJ.
Seems like the rs have more questions to answer in their pitching staff than us.
There will always be Negative Nancy’s out there, expect more from diehard Yankee fans.
Randy, hopefully, rothschild can finally convince Burnett and Hughes to start using their change-up more than 5% of the time..to closer to 15% of the time. They both have decent to good ones, but, little faith in them. ST is where they really need to break it out, against the NL teams. Save it for the regular season against the AL teams. I’m hoping that Rivera starts breaking his out this year. He has in the past 2 ST and has made Howard and Utley look really bad a couple of times. Three straight last yer to Howard.
yankeefeminista December 24th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
West Coast Yankee Fan December 24th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
yankeefeminista – it’s not a matter of caring what he thinks, it’s indicative of what many writers and analysts are saying and there is some truth to it and that’s not fun to come to grips with as a Yankee fan. Let’s face it, Damon and Manny are still available for a reason, they are old and way past their prime and neither is a viable option in the field. It’s true that Martin is the sum total of our off-season efforts to date.
_____
It only shows the dearth of the free agent market generally and the solid core we already possess that other teams lack. Moves for their own sake are counterproductive. Aside from signing Lee, every other move had a caveat, be in length of contract, cost, or players given up in return. What would you have done differently? I love Crawford, but the contract/length is ridiculous. I loved Wood, but he is a risk for two years and at the price he wanted. Greinke deal was a risk and not worth the cost. The bullpen FA costs have been prohibitive as well. & relief pitchers are erratic, in general. What would you have wanted the Yanks to do?
*************
A fair question. I not privy to what has transpired in Brian Cashman’s office since last April so accordingly I can’t tell you what he could have done, turned down, etc. What I do know is that he is in charge of all baseball decisions and he has had the most money in baseball by far to work with. I don’t think he was prepared for this. For Lee not coming, for Pettitte maybe retiring, for our pitching in the minor leagues not being close to ready. I also don’t think Cashman was prepared for the Jeter fiasco and I believe it sucked a lot of energy and focus out of his post-season efforts. There was no plan B or C.
I come from the school that you take the best player still on the board and figure out how to manage that asset later, which can often means a trade. The fact is that in the last couple of years we have watched some of the best talent on baseball go elsewhere, Holiday, Crawford and Werth specifically.
I don’t think those contracts were unmanageable for the Yankees, not at all. A Crawford or Werth signing and a package of Swisher or Gardner plus prospects could I believe have garnered us a very good pitcher. That was I thought plan b wasn’t it? If Lee didn’t come here?
AJ is your #2 starter, Phil is a 3 or 4 , at best.
” This year, it’s already Christmas Eve. and if the Yankees have a holiday surprise in store … ”
I think Brian Cashman is perfectly content with us Yankees missing the playoffs in 2011 .
Go 2012 .
We can only hope .
If Phil is a #3 or #4 at best, then that doesn’t speak that well for the Yankees developing of youngsters. I have concerns about Phil, but if he’s right, he’s better than AJ. Let’s see if he can find his curve ball again……
comet December 24th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
GB7 Merry Christmas right back at you and to Killer as well from Emma and Abbie!
———————————————————————————————————————-
Thanks, Comet. I’ll hide the Emma/Abbie message from him, though. He has enough lady trouble. He’s fast moving into Shaun Kemp/Elijah Dukes territory with the little “Killers” in the neighborhood. His puppy support is outrageous. That’s a lot of bones and kibbles.
If AJ added a changeup, his problems would be on their way to being solved.
Once he becomes a pitcher instead of a thrower he could finally blossom.
Maybe a decrease in velo could be the best thing that happens to him, force him to work on a change off a 92 mph fb instead of relying on 94-95.
“hopefully, rothschild can finally convince Burnett and Hughes to start using their change-up more than 5% of the time..to closer to 15% of the time.”
gb7-
a good change up if you can throw it is such a weapon. it gives a catcher much more to work with in calling a game.
in big moments when hitters are all keyed up a change can be the best possible pitch to throw if a pitcher has a good one.
anyone know if rohthschild has a history of teaching the change?
Why all the overconcern over Phil? He is just learning his craft .He will get better and smarter as time goes by. Why should he be a #2 at this stage of his career? I think he went as far as he could with Eiland and Rothschild will have the maturity to help advance him to the next level, as well as AJ.
There isn’t a damned thing wrong with Hughes. Keep in mind just how long it had been since he had thrown more than 125 innings before last year (2006). He was wearing down. He’ll be fine. When he improves, somebody’s going to have to find a new player to knock on a daily basis. Who that will be is a mystery. They don’tt have “faith” in anybody on the team or the front office.
At Burnett’s age (34), it’s a tough task for Rothschild to transform him into a high leverage winner.
Being a .500 winner doesn’t cut it. The team needs him to be 5-8 games above .500 in order to say a rotation problem has been solved.
It depends on his willingness to learn repeated delivery and add a pitch or 2 to his arsenal.
If the rotation is nothing to worry about and its as good – or better – than last year…then why offer Lee all that money? Guess that would have been a waste of money.
And who is pitching the 8th?
Betsy December 24th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
If Phil is a #3 or #4 at best, then that doesn’t speak that well for the Yankees developing of youngsters.
——————————
Would you feel that way because his ceiling was that of a number 1?
As AJ’s skills decline, due to “advanced” age, he will become more of a pitcher.
He won’t rely on his stuff as much, as we will be forced to use his guile.
Look at Andy last year. He pitched better than he ever did at age 38.
There is still hope for AJ.
IMO, it’s no secret how to physically throw a change. It’s basically a fastball delivery and arm motion with the ball held deep in the hand with varying grips depending upon the movement desired. This is not a new concept for AJ or for any pitcher. But it’s easier said than done on the big league level. It’s all about mechanics and the ability to repeat your motion time after time without giving away what you are going to throw. And of course command.
And who is pitching the 8th?
===============
They didn’t get Wood till mid-season and did alright before he came.
We don’t know what Fuentes or Rauch are asking and are not getting them at any price they dictate.
Just a reminder .
I will present my series ” Thirty-One Days . Thirty-One Predictions . Thirty-One Heartaches ” here beginning on January First , Two Thousand Eleven .
Carlo, you’re wrong on so many levels. Cash is not waiting on Andy. Nor is Andy holding us up from making any moves. What about, “don’t wait for me” do you not understand?
We need SP even if Andy comes back, so if we find somebody and then Andy does come back it’s not going to prevent any of our plans.. we have no plans right now. Cash is waiting for a miracle to come to market.
Just because Andy has not said anything official, you don’t know what he’s already told Cash privately. It’s a very slim chance that Andy comes back and doesn’t retire.. so you operate as if he is retiring. Which still leaves us doing nothing because the options to do something are just not there.
I do know that Cash is working on “something” big, but who/what I dunno and working on something is not the same as it coming to pass.
Wow man, you really are reaching there saying that Andy is holding up our moves. Laughable.. as if there is something not getting done because Andy is in holding pattern.
What????
Mick, he has to be that because of the state of the rotation………AJ is nobody’s idea of a #2.
Against, I only said that because the hype on both Joba and Phil were through the roof. In any case, I see that Mick meant a #3 or #4 for this year………
Ruby Tuesday December 24th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Just a reminder. I will present my series ” Thirty-One Days . Thirty-One Predictions . Thirty-One Heartaches ” here beginning on January First , Two Thousand Eleven .
******************
If you were clever, you would have presented it on January 31st. But you’re not.
Phil was supposed to work on his change (which he did) during the off-season. He ended up with a very promising one at the end of ST, but then he didn’t use it. I don’t know if he’s afraid of it or he just doesn’t trust it, but at some point he has to trust a pitch other than his FB…………I believe he’s very capable of getting the changeup to be a solid pitch for him, if he’ll just use it.
For all we know, Andy has told Cash he will come back , at least I’m sure there is an offer on the table. None of these FA’s are being scooped up as they are prob. asking too much and the longer they are kept waiting, the more their price comes down. There is nothing great out there anyway and a deal can always be made.
I do know that Cash is working on “something” big
………………………………………………………………………………
Montero and Nunez to Philly for Cliff Lee?
Phil, at least, is young – but AJ at 34? Is he really going to change? He apparently worked all off-season on it as well – but then he hardly used it. I don’t see this leopard changing his spots.
AJ was hired as a #2 starter and paid #2 money.
He had an off season but he is healthy and can be fixed.
If so, he will be our #2 again.
I do know that Cash is working on “something” big..
——–
Christmas with his family.
Wanted to stop by and wish everyone who celebrates Christmas a Merry One and for those who don’t celebrate Christmas- Happy Chinese Food and Movie Day!
GB you can tell killer about Abbie and Emma liking him they’re fixed. No puppies. Tell us a Micky Mantle story for Christmas Eve.
Happy Holidays, Yankee fans!
from Rosy and Felix…
http://tinyurl.com/26jjor6
pat, here’s hoping for you and family have a Merry Christmas and a safe one. The diet season starts on 26 December.
# Betsy December 24th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
Against, I only said that because the hype on both Joba and Phil were through the roof. In any case, I see that Mick meant a #3 or #4 for this year………
——————————————–
Oh ok I see where you were coming from.
Comet, that’s the only way that I can get “Killer” to behave. When he starts acting up, I just say “FIXED” and he starts shaking and cowering in a corner. That lasts about 2 hours.
I’ll work up the Mantle story about him calling pitches from center field.
Aj’s velo was sitting @93+ in the ALCS game, and he threw 5 well spotted, pretty effective changeups if I recall correctly.
Power Rankings from Tim Brown
1. Boston Red Sox (89-73; Previous: 11) – Carl Crawford(notes) says his heart is in Boston. In case that’s not enough, he brought along a crate of Angels’ hearts, too.
2. Philadelphia Phillies (97-65; Previous: 3) – In Cliff Lee(notes), the Phils are betting they’ll get their money’s worth. For now, it’s good enough to know he got their Werth’s money.
3. San Francisco Giants (92-70; Previous: 7) – Team officials are currently designing championship rings, expected to hold diamonds to symbolize the field they play on, sapphires to represent the Bay, and rubies to honor Aubrey Huff’s(notes) thong.
4. New York Yankees (95-67; Previous: 1) – After a dry run in Connecticut, GM Brian Cashman dons a camouflage elf costume and repels into the Pettitte compound.
5. Minnesota Twins (94-68; Previous: 2) – The Twins were shocked to learn the Metrodome roof caves in during months other than October.