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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Pettitte’s future

Posted by: Brian Heyman - Posted in Misc on Dec 28, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Mark Teixeira has been texting with Andy Pettitte. The Yankees’ first baseman spoke to reporters at a Pinstripe Bowl promotion in Times Square Tuesday. It sounds like he received the same vibes that Brian Cashman received in his conversations with Pettitte, that the 38-year-old lefty is leaning more toward calling it a career.

But no one knows for sure at this moment. Pettitte went 11-3 with a 3.28 ERA last season, although that groin injury sidelined him for much of the second half. Teixeira hasn’t given up on him leaning the other way.

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176 Responses to “Pettitte’s future”

  1. Against All Odds December 28th, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    What an eventful off season from the Jeter negotiations, to Lee going back to the Phils to Andy mulling retirement.

  2. RMS December 28th, 2010 at 10:09 pm

    I would love to have Andy come back for another year. But how long does it take for him to make a decision? Yes or No, let’s go.

  3. Against All Odds December 28th, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    The only positive thing you can take away is that he’s “leaning towards retirement” Maybe it’s taking this long because he still has a pull to pitch

  4. jackamir December 28th, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    Au Revoir, Andy Petitte…… May life be a wonderful journey for you and the family in Phase ll; life after baseball. You have been an inspiration… A tremendous competitor and a extraordinary teammate.

  5. Bronx Jeers December 28th, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    Thou have forsaken us Andy Pettitte !!!!

  6. 461toCenter December 28th, 2010 at 10:22 pm

    Just a gut feeling, but I think he comes back. He loves the game, he loves to compete, and he knows that he still can pitch at a high level. As to how long he is taking to decide, as far as I’m concerned, he’s earned the right to as much time as he wants

  7. blake December 28th, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    I think he’s waiting to see what the team is going to look like before he makes his decision. Andy has said that if he is going to put his body through another season then he wants to know that they have a good chance at winning it all. If that’s the case then why not wait and see how things are looking after all the moves and then decide……I really still feel like at the end of the day he’ll be back.

  8. BoJo December 28th, 2010 at 10:50 pm

    Following up on the Soria discussion from prior thread…why trade all the prospects it would take (2 of killer Bs, Montero, etc) to get Soria when they could get Soriano for cash and a late first round pick?

    Soriano and Borass will go to wherever he makes the most money, so pay above market for him, but keep the prospects.

    On the other hand, if KC were to somehow be willing to do this without getting Betances or ManBan or Montero, I would pursue Soria.

    Either way, they both would give team the flexability to bring up young SPers or move Joba back to starting.

    Either acquisition would–for me–make this a great off-season no matter what Andy decides to do.

  9. MoRings42 December 28th, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    It’s already been noted that he’s past his normal routine for this time of the year as far as workouts go.

    This season doesn’t look good at all..

  10. BoJo December 28th, 2010 at 10:59 pm

    I can’t blame Andy for wanting to retire, but holding out in case team really needs him.

    He has more money than he will ever be able to spend unless he develops an excessive cocaine habit…he has the ability to do or go where ever he wants when ever he wants…the most precious thing he has now is time with his family.

    And his retirement won’t be the end of the world…when one door slams close, another opens. Some prospect will get a chance to step up, or perhaps Cashman will finally relent and let Joba try starting once again.

  11. backbench December 28th, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    AP is truly on the fence. Mrs P however is pushing for another year.

    She probably realizes that the HOF is so definitely within reach and that 250 is the new 300. If he left 10 wins on the table and some bozos wouldn’t vote properly, he might just miss out, and she knows what that would be like to live with.

  12. hman23 December 28th, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    I am in favor of giving Joba a chance to earn a job as starter too.

    If he cannot earn it so be it, but I cannot figure out what good it does for Cashman to declare so certainly that he is in the BP. 25 years old. Joba has had a hand in his predicament, but the Yankees have left a lot to be desired in how they developed and handled him. But he is only 25. There is still time and I am not in the camp that declares him a lost cause. No way you can look at the way he dominated at times a few years ago, and can nonetheless give up this quickly on him.

    Give him a shot.

  13. Against All Odds December 28th, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    I”m in favor of Joba getting another shot but how long does he have to get his body and arm into shape if he is given a chance? It’s already December 28th

  14. G. Love December 28th, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    If the choice is trade Montero and prospects for Soria or just give Soriano a big fat check that ends right about when Soria hits free agency, I sign Soriano and keep the prospects.

    Trading your top prospects for a reliever is a terrible use of resources. If it doesn’t pan out you lose talent.

    At least signing a free agent reliever only costs you money and a pick.

    If the Yankees add Soriano and somehow get Andy to come back, this team is ready to rock next season. The game will be 6 innings most nights.

  15. JobaTipsHisCap December 28th, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    Sux ranks ahead of Yanks

  16. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    One pitcher to keep an eye on this coming season is Andrew Sisco. He pitched in 48 games in relief over 67 innings this past year, but is starting in the Mexican Winter League this winter. He’s making his 15th start tonight with 78 innings and a 3.82 ERA. Walks still an issue with 42, but strikeouts at 84.

  17. West Coast Yankee Fan December 29th, 2010 at 12:15 am

    I think Montero is too close to the show to trade him now. Can you imagine the fallout if we dealt him and he actually played out the script everyone has written for him? If he hits 40 home runs and knocks in 130? This town would go nuts.

  18. randyhater December 29th, 2010 at 12:21 am

    Considering how he pitched last year and the numbers (stats and dollars) that are still in reach, there’s no way Andy wants to call it quits. The foot-dragging is all about creating leverage.

    Of course our Boy Genius GM is way too smart for that. He’s gonna call Andy’s bluff and make him crawl back. Same way he called Clemens’ bluff (and Andy’s) in the winter of 2003.

    Of course both of those guys walked and our team suffered the worst collapse in the history of the sport the following season, but those are minor details. The important thing was Cash proved to everyone that he couldn’t be rolled.

  19. Patrick December 29th, 2010 at 12:28 am

    If Andy calls it quits now would be a good time to do so. He just won another world series in 09 and had an allstar season in 2010. I’d be disappointed if he quit but I can see why he’d want to.

    About Soria… I just don’t see the logic in trading for him unless Cashman thinks he’d be able to transition into a starting role. Soriano is still out there, why waste prospects when you could lock down the 8th inning with money and a draft pick?

    Call me crazy but Soria has three plus pitches, if he’s on the market I’d look at him as a middle of the rotation type of pitcher, not a setup guy. If Andy retires you have to get creative. Nova would be a fine 5th starter but do you really want him and Mitre in the rotation?

  20. Patrick December 29th, 2010 at 12:31 am

    West coast,

    I agree with you, the Yanks cannot trade Montero unless they are getting a stud non-reliever back. Montero for Soria would be ludicrous from NY’s point of view

  21. West Coast Yankee Fan December 29th, 2010 at 12:33 am

    Absolutely insane. I also think Soria has said pretty assertively he doesn’t want to start.

  22. Patrick December 29th, 2010 at 12:37 am

    Yeah west coast, Soria would be crazy to go that route at this point, I’m just throwing crap at the wall hoping something will stick!

  23. tampayank December 29th, 2010 at 12:37 am

    Kenny Powers is available

  24. West Coast Yankee Fan December 29th, 2010 at 12:38 am

    MLBTR – “The one cambio that Soria seemed eager to block, though, is a switch to the Royals’ starting rotation.

    “I really don’t believe that could happen,” Soria told Espinoza. “As I’ve always said, why fix something that isn’t broken?… Furthermore, if they asked me if I would like to change into a starter, I would say no.”

  25. West Coast Yankee Fan December 29th, 2010 at 12:39 am

    Kenny Powers! Now there’s a stud hurler I can get behind.

  26. West Coast Yankee Fan December 29th, 2010 at 12:41 am

    “Fundamentals are a crutch for the talentless”

    – Kenny Powers

  27. G-C December 29th, 2010 at 12:45 am

    With that cutter there’s no doubt in my mind that Soria could be a #1/2 type pitcher. The only questions with him are about durability. From a scouting perspective, I’m not sure that body could realistically hold up over 175-200 innings.

  28. stuart a December 29th, 2010 at 12:52 am

    sure a closer at 27 after closing for years is going to be converted to a starter. Oh btw he is an all star closer.

    what are you guys smoking???

  29. Jerkface December 29th, 2010 at 12:58 am

    sure a closer at 27 after closing for years is going to be converted to a starter. Oh btw he is an all star closer.

    what are you guys smoking???

    He has 3 plus pitches and has started before. He obviously likes the close, but the Royals best use of him would have been in the rotation. A Soria/Greinke 1/2 would have been tops.

  30. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2010 at 1:02 am

    I could see Pettitte retiring and then unretiring by May.

  31. G-C December 29th, 2010 at 1:24 am

    I’d go as far to say that a team as bad as the Royals had no business NOT using Soria as a starter.

    Relievers grow on trees. Elite starters don’t.

    The Royals did themselves a major disservice by not seeing what a 1/2 of Greinke/Soria could have done in a division that isn’t exactly loaded with all-world talent. They could have competed in a couple of years as some of their offensive prospects developed. Now, Greinke’s gone and Soria’s still a reliever. Their window to compete, just like it perpetually seems to do, has been pushed back by what, another five years?

  32. Pat M. December 29th, 2010 at 2:43 am

    G-C……Moore’s plan is to have his club in line to be contenders by 2014…Their system is loaded and very affordable…..I’d buy some stock in KC The Royals right now…..

  33. West Coast Yankee Fan December 29th, 2010 at 3:16 am

    The Royals have the best young talent in baseball right now.

  34. Patrick December 29th, 2010 at 3:44 am

    Soria is smart for wanting to close. It’s easier to be a successful closer than it is to be a good starting pitcher and closers get mad bank.

    Kenny Powers would be a great pick-up IMO

    The best part about being Kenny Powers is being Kenny Powers.

  35. Pat M. December 29th, 2010 at 3:49 am

    If you want to deal with Drayton Moore you better have quality ballplayers that are a year or two away from making a contribution for the parent club….He’s stockpiling this talent so when the time comes The KC Royals will be a solid core club who will be a major factor….Watch out for them as they’ll be what the Rays are or were the past 3 years….

  36. beedogs December 29th, 2010 at 6:00 am

    This is pretty much doomsday scenario for the Yankees. Sabathia and Hughes can’t pitch every game.

    Look forward to a third place, .500-ish ballclub next year.

  37. RhapsodyInBlue December 29th, 2010 at 6:18 am

    beedog what a clever handle for a troll.

    Wonder what it was yesterday.

    Yeah sure the Yankees will be a 500 ball club if you say so.

    When was the last time that happened?

  38. blake December 29th, 2010 at 7:19 am

    Two moves that could change the landscape of the Yankee staff without a single trade: Soriano and Pettite. Those two acquisitions put the Yankees right there with the best teams in baseball. Imagine a bulpen with Robertson, a fixed Joba, Soriano, and Rivera, with maybe a Brackman for the 2nd half. It would shorten the games significantly and allow their offense to win some games late.

    Unfortunately getting both of those guys is somewhat out of the Yanks control.

  39. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2010 at 7:19 am

    Trading multiple top prospects for Sorian when you can get Soriano for one draft pick, albeit a 1st but it’s still more of a crapshoot, would be criminally insane.

  40. blake December 29th, 2010 at 7:23 am

    Rich,

    I agree. Unless the Royals would deal Soria for a bunch of B prospects that are excess in the Yankee system (which they wont)….then dealing for him when Soriano os out there as a FA would be madness.

  41. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 7:34 am

    blake -

    Agreed, those moves would do wonders for the pitching staff.

    Yes, Soriano is available for just $$$$, but, he’s not as good as Soria, and has had injury problems in the past, that should be of concern, if you need to sign him to a minimum of 3 years.

    KC will want front line players + prospects, but, should not cost what Greinke would have.

    I’d off Joba + 2 prospects, and see where it goes.

  42. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 7:36 am

    OFFER > off Although there are times one might think of offing Joba, lol.

  43. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 7:36 am

    MTU -

    Are you lurking my friend?

  44. Rich in NJ December 29th, 2010 at 7:39 am

    Soria, unlike Soriano, has never closed a big game is his life.

  45. blake December 29th, 2010 at 7:41 am

    AL,

    You can argue that Soria is better but he’s also extremly cheap and the Royals really have no reason to trade him unless they get a big return. Joba could be nearly as expensive as him pretty soon. Sure if they’d trade him for Joba and a couple of other guys then Id prefer Soria because of his age and cost…..but I don’t think they will. Soriano is pretty darn good as well, has extensive experience setting up, and costs money only. Really think the Yanks should be talking to his agent to see what it would take to get to to set up for Rivera.

  46. Mell December 29th, 2010 at 7:56 am

    “Really think the Yanks should be talking to his agent to see what it would take to get to to set up for Rivera.”

    Multi years and 7 figures.

  47. Mell December 29th, 2010 at 7:56 am

    Sorry. Make that 8 figures.

  48. blake December 29th, 2010 at 7:58 am

    Mell,

    That’s what it takes to sign most anybody that’s any good though ;)

  49. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 8:01 am

    Al-

    I’m here.

    How goes it ?

  50. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 8:10 am

    This is wierd.

    2 of the best closers in baseball have last name’s that begin with the SAME 5 letters:

    Soria

    Soria-no

    It a sign.

    :)

  51. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 8:11 am

    edit: “it’s”, sorry.

  52. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 8:19 am

    MTU -

    Going OK, except no heat this morning, I was trying to get it back on, but to no avail. Need to call the heating contractor. That’s like opening the window and watching the $$$$$ fly out around here.

    I do agree that getting either Soria or Soriano, and have AP come back, changes the entire complexion of the team.

  53. LathamJoe December 29th, 2010 at 8:20 am

    If the Yankees are going to use any of their scant MiLB prospects, its best that they use it on a trade for quality starter, maybe a Josh Johnson. Soria has great potential, but he won’t want to pitch in a setup role for the next two seasons. And Cashman won’t pay $10 Mil for a Setup pircher either. Perhaps they hope that Soria doesn’t go to a large market contender and they trade for him in the future.
    The Yankees desperately need an established starter. Hughes has potential but fell off badly during the second half. Burnett is a disaster and can rarely be counted on to provide a quality start. Mitre? Ooof! What genius decided to keep him?

    I predict that Pettitte signs a 1-year deal worth $13 Mil base and $15-$18 Mil w/ incentives. I believe that AP figured if Cashman signed Lee that he would ride off into the sunset. That plan has changed and I think he’s holding back his decision to return for one more season..for more Yankee dollars.

    Best wishes to all for healthy, happy and prosperous New Year.

  54. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 8:26 am

    If I were Cashman, I’d call Andy and just flat out say, we need you to return for one last season, and we’ll pay you $15M, plus feature you on a farewell tour, thus giving you and your fans a chance to say good-bye. I think that would get it done.

    Also, what that does is tell the other GM’s the Yankees are not that desperate, and getting an additional SP will most likely not cost as much.

  55. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 8:26 am

    Al-

    Time to break out the electric heaters. Bad time to lose your heating.
    Hope it’s fixed soon and at less semolians than you thought.

    The BP upgrade should be going on independently of what AP does.

    It might be that Cashman is waiting for Soriano’s market to form, or for it to collapse so he can swoop in.

    Soria would be fine as long as Montero,GGBG and Banuelos are left out of it.

  56. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 8:28 am

    Mike -

    For Soria I’d offer Joba + 2 prospects, but, not Montero or Banuelos.

  57. Mike Ri December 29th, 2010 at 8:29 am

    LathamJoe-

    I don’t think Pettite is coming back. . I believe the only reason why he hasn’t announced his decision yet , is because he doesn’ want the Yankees and Cashman to look anymore desperate than they do now.

    I also truly think the whole upcoming Clemens trial is weighing in heavily on his decision.

  58. filthy slider December 29th, 2010 at 8:30 am

    another day another zero from Brian “Spiderman” Cashman. First off season without George
    and it shows. Most of this guys trades have been disasters, some of the no brainer free agents have been busts as well. This guy has proven he has no ability to rate secondary talent. I pray for the day Hank or Hal wake up & fire his ass.

  59. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 8:31 am

    Al-

    We’ve heard in the past that Moore is a bear to deal with.

    He’d probably want our best prospects which simply ain’t happening.

  60. blake December 29th, 2010 at 8:32 am

    I know its easy to believe that Rivera will pitch forever as he has in the past and as long as he’s healthy I see no reason why he.can’t for the next 2 years…..but he’s 41 years old and shown some signs of nagging injuries and wearing down over the last couple of seasons.

    Soriano wouldn’t just be a set up guy….he would be a second closer and insurance policy for Mo and could be a big help in keeping him healthy and rested. He could also help significantly shorten games and take pressure off a young pitching staff. You will have to overpay to get him but Posada, Marte, Igawa, and Pettite come off the books after next season…..just think of it as giving him Marte and Igawa’s money plus a little more.

  61. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 8:32 am

    Mike Ri -

    I don’t think the Clemens trial is going to take much of Andy’s time, a week away from the team at most. The only thing they want him to say is while playing golf one day Roger mentioned taking drugs, that’s all he ever said he knew about.

  62. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 8:35 am

    Blake-

    Wouldn’t Boras demand 4 years for Soriano in addtion to the big bucks ?

    Would we go there ?

    That doesn’t even figure the loss of a 1st rounder to Tampa.

    I do understand your argument. It is sound but I think the above
    might be deal killers especially the 4 years to a guy with as big an
    injury history as Soriano.

  63. Mell December 29th, 2010 at 8:37 am

    “It might be that Cashman is waiting for Soriano’s market to form, or for it to collapse so he can swoop in”

    I think Soriano’s/Boras’s problem isn’t lack of interest. It’s lack of interest at 3+ years. If they come to the point where they decide he’s going to have to a Beltre-like one year deal, the Yankees have no shot. Soriano will go to a team for whom he can close in 2011 and re-enter the FA market. One year of setting up, even setting up well, will do little to enhance his FA profile. I think for the Yankees to get him, they’re going to have to go at least 3 years, so as to ensure he closes for part of his Yankees tenure.

  64. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 8:38 am

    Later folks.

  65. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 8:41 am

    Mell-

    I could see the Yankees possibly going 3 but not wanting to go 4.

    Boras is very patient so the Yankees will have to be too.

    Soriano is not young and has a horrendous injury history.

  66. Mell December 29th, 2010 at 8:45 am

    MTU:

    I doubt the Yankees want to go 3, but I think they’d have to in order to get it done. And at real money too.

  67. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 8:48 am

    Mell-

    Whatever the Yankees do to get a solid EIG it should be done independently of AP.

    It will improve our chances with or without AP.

    I really have no idea if the Yankees would outlay that kind of scratch for Soriano.

    Rauch might be a more realitistic get.

  68. blake December 29th, 2010 at 8:49 am

    MTU,

    I would have no problem offering him 3 years….4, I would worry a little but in this case I think he could be a difference maker.

  69. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 8:50 am

    Blake-

    But the Yankees might.

    We’ll see.

  70. blake December 29th, 2010 at 8:51 am

    Soriano has been pretty healthy and durable the last 2 years. You can find risk in most anything…..to me the important thing is to take risks on guys that can make a real difference.

  71. disco stu December 29th, 2010 at 8:52 am

    Far be it for me (or anyone for that matter) to tell another person what to do … and I have the greatest respect in the world for Andy Pettitte and what he has given the Yankees over the years.

    But if his intention was truly to retire from the moment the season ended, I really wished he did what O’Neill and Brosius did after the 2001 WS and announced he was leaving the game as soon as the season ended.

    If for nothing else, there would be absolutely zero speculation that maybe he would consider coming back under the right set of circumstances.

    Also, I dont know if it would have changed things, but I wonder if the Yankees might have been more aggressive earlier in the FA period with getting another starting pitcher besides Cliff Lee … Jon Garland comes to mind … wasn’t he one of the first FA agends to sign? Maybe the Yankees would have targeted someone like him (in addition to Lee) to help give them more quality depth in the rotation … the Yankees are really in a tough spot if Pettitte is, indeed, off the board.

  72. Carlo December 29th, 2010 at 8:53 am

    # Rich in NJ December 29th, 2010 at 1:02 am

    I could see Pettitte retiring and then unretiring by May.
    ———————————

    I surely hope Cashman doesnt see this same thing……..which i agree could be right…….but to go into the season without adjustments and assume this may be the case would be a huge error.

  73. Mell December 29th, 2010 at 8:56 am

    “Whatever the Yankees do to get a solid EIG it should be done independently of AP”

    Yeah, I agree.

    “Soriano has been pretty healthy and durable the last 2 years”

    Mostly healthy for 4 of the last 5 years. Still a risk, but one that may well be worth taking.

  74. disco stu December 29th, 2010 at 9:02 am

    Blake – I have been saying the same thing you just said about Soriano … the Yankees would not just be paying him closer’s money to be an 8th inning pitcher. He would be the first pitcher called upon to close if Mo needed rest or if he was hurt for any extended period of time – you could not ask for a more perfect “in house” option to fill in for Mo.

    I did see on Hot Stove last night that Heyman was reporting that the Yankees were discussing Soriano, but he said he was not sure if Soriano would want to come to a team where he was not the closer.

  75. Chip December 29th, 2010 at 9:11 am

    Until I hear differently I’m going to assume Andy’s not returning.

    As for the Soria stuff from the last thread – I haven’t read the postings but I’ll assume this point has been made because there are some smart fans on this site:

    Why give up Montero and other prospects for Soria when you can give up a draft pick and cash for Soriano who is just as good?

    Frankly I would pass on both – I would go for Rauch and Gregg who are less expensive and don’t require a draft pick or prospects.

  76. pat December 29th, 2010 at 9:17 am

    It appears lack of a filter between the brain and mouth is genetic and runs in the Guillen family.

    Ozzie’s son unloaded on Bobby Jenks on Twitter after Jenks took a few veiled shots at Ozzie and the White Sox.

  77. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 9:22 am

    I love Andy, but, I disagree with those that say he’s earned the right to take his time in telling the Yankees whether or not he’ll return.

    If AP has any respect for the team, and his fellow players, he’d make an announcement as soon after the season ended, as possible. His delay, the extra time afforded Lee, took Cashman out of the market for players that could have helped this team.

    I can understand the process, but, this is a business, and business decisions need to be made in a timely manner.

    Cashman should have sat down with Lee and stated this is our best offer, please take 2 weeks to look it over, and let us know if it meets with your approval. This tip toeing around Lee like he was a God was ill advised. Too many good options came off the board while waiting for the great Cliff to make up his mind, even though he knew he was not coming to NY.

  78. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 9:24 am

    Al-

    I agree on both accounts.

  79. Mike Ri December 29th, 2010 at 9:25 am

    I love Andy too . .but lets not forget he was an HGH user. ( even if he did tell the truth ) .. he’s no different than Bonds, Clemens, Giambi , Arod . .and the rest of the clan

  80. Mell December 29th, 2010 at 9:26 am

    “If AP has any respect for the team, and his fellow players, he’d make an announcement as soon after the season ended, as possible. His delay, the extra time afforded Lee, took Cashman out of the market for players that could have helped this team”

    Al:

    If Cashman has allowed Pettitte’s indecision to take him out of the market for certain players, an assertion I don’t agree with, wouldn’t that be Cashman’s fault rather than Pettitte’s?

  81. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 9:27 am

    Pat-

    Insanity has been known to run in families.

    ;)

  82. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 9:29 am

    Mike Ri -

    What does that have to do with his returning to the team, or not?

    Andy stated he used HGH once while trying to heal quicker from an injury, and was not an on going user trying to get an advantage over other players, a huge difference. AP was big enough to stand up and admit what he’d done as well.

  83. Mike Ri December 29th, 2010 at 9:33 am

    Bil Al —

    Andy stated he used HGH once while trying to heal quicker from an injury, and was not an on going user trying to get an advantage over other players, a huge difference. AP was big enough to stand up and admit what he?d done as well.

    —-

    You can believe that if you want…. And even if he did stand up and tell the truth . .Doesn’t make it right. Bottom line he broke the rules ,, But somehow . . he gets a free pass

    As far as him coming back . . … it has nothing to do with my opinion of him coming back. I hope for our sake he does.

  84. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 9:33 am

    Mell -

    You are correct, that’s on Cashman, both the Lee deal and Andy’s return.

    As I stated before, I’d have offered Andy $15M to come back for 1 more year, promoted this as his farewell tour, and locked him up early. This would send a message to other teams, the Yankees can deal for other SP on a level playing field, and not from desperation.

    Cashman allowed the FA season to get away from him, and yes, that’s all on him.

  85. 108 stitches December 29th, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Andy or no Andy, the starting rotation needs to be fortified. Andy retiring means the only LH in the rotation is C.C. until Manny Banuelos is deemd ready.
    Getting LHSP Wandy Rodriquez and Jeff Keppinger solves 2 Yankee needs for not an overload of top talent given up and Houston also gets the salary relief of about $7M.
    If Andy decides to return for a final year, there’s nothing wrong with having 3 LH in the rotation, especially at the Stadium.
    Finish things off by signing Jon Rauch for the bullpen.

  86. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 9:37 am

    108-

    How do you know that Rodriguez is even available ?

  87. austinmac December 29th, 2010 at 9:38 am

    I see the discussion of Soriano risks. All players, particularly pitchers, are risks. It is time, in my opinion, to take risks to improve the team. Soriano is one for whom I would opt.

    When we see arguments over whether the Yankees are a 90 win team, I see how far the team has fallen in the eyes of the public. Such attitude doesn’t bode well for income for the team. George, for whatever else his failings, realized spending and fan optimism went hand in hand with excitement and profitability. If the team is out of contention by the trade deadline, ratings and actual attendance will drop further.

    Therefore, I maintain spending makes money if done reasonably prudently. Of course, I felt Crawford would add to the team and provide trade flexibility they do not seem to have.

  88. 86w183 December 29th, 2010 at 9:39 am

    Soriano is riskier than Soria fiscally and physically.

    You can’t just keep paying over market prices and holding on to prospects. At some point you either let them play or include them in a deal. I’d rather see a nice package go to KC than see them pay ridiculous money for a set up man.

  89. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 9:41 am

    My question to Cashman, having seen all the talent that’s come off the board thus far, what are you waiting for to make the deals necessary to keep this team on top.

    Perhaps if Boston signs another top RP, he’ll think it’s time to open his mind to making some meaningful deals.

  90. DaSaint007 December 29th, 2010 at 9:45 am

    I agree with all who advocate adding Jon Rauch to the bullpen, as I’ve said much the same for weeks now. I’d even go farther and add another lefty. Will Ohman will probably be cheaper and easier to move than Brian Fuentes.

    There are still quality arms available on the RP market, and I’m wondering if the remaining chips start falling once Soriano is off the board. On the other hand, he could be last, which would diminish his value.

  91. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 9:48 am

    The Red Sox are talking with Brian Fuentes, does Cashman let them get him as well. Sometimes you sign a player, just to keep him away from the competition.

  92. Mike Ri December 29th, 2010 at 9:50 am

    The Red Sox are talking with Brian Fuentes, does Cashman let them get him as well. Sometimes you sign a player, just to keep him away from the competition.

    —-

    The Sox are going for it !

  93. DocTodd December 29th, 2010 at 9:50 am

    I have a feeling that Cashman is stuck somewhere on the side of a building,hanging onto a rope,and no one knows where he is.How else to explain his inactivity in the trade &FA market?

  94. blake December 29th, 2010 at 9:51 am

    A “nice package” of prospects probably wont get Soria. They will want Montero, Betances, Banuelos etc….those kinds of guys or otherwise they have no reason to deal him. If Cashman can get KC to part with him and not include their top guys then by all means go ahead but I really don’t see that happening.

  95. Carlo December 29th, 2010 at 9:51 am

    BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 9:41 am

    My question to Cashman, having seen all the talent that’s come off the board thus far, what are you waiting for to make the deals necessary to keep this team on top.

    ———————————

    To steal a line from Casey Close, Cashmans handling of the free agency period to date has been baffling. I am of the belief that patience will ultimately pay off and that the utter silence from the yankees could be an indicator that something larger and clearly transformational is in the works…….however, if i am wrong in that belief……his unwillingness to make some smaller moves to date leaves me very concerned with the direction this organization is taking.

  96. BoJo December 29th, 2010 at 9:52 am

    MTU December 29th, 2010 at 9:27 am

    Pat-

    Insanity has been known to run in families.
    +++++++++++++++++
    I thought it leisurely strolled through and lingered a while….not ran.

  97. Chip December 29th, 2010 at 9:52 am

    My plan:

    1. Deal Nunez, Romine, Nova to Houston for Brett Myers, Brandon Lyon and Jeff Keppinger
    2. Deal Joba and Warren to Colorado for Ryan Spilbourghs and Huston Street
    3. Sign Andruw Jones

    I deal for Lyon to give the Astros more reason to deal Myers. Lyon is owed about $11 mil over the next two years – do I think he’s any good? No. Would I swallow that to get Myers in the 3 spot of the rotation? Yup.

    My 25:

    Jeter – SS
    Martin – C
    Tex – 1b
    Alex – 3b
    Cano – 2b
    Swisher – RF
    Posada – DH
    Granderson – CF
    Gardner – LF

    Bench: Keppinger, Cervelli, Spil, Andruw Jones

    CC
    Hughes
    Myers
    AJ
    Phelps/Noesi

    Pen:
    RHP: Mo, Street, Lyon, Robertson, Mitre
    LHP: Feliciano, Logan

  98. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Fuentes is a better pitcher than Rauch, and he should be on Cashman’s list of guys to go after, but, that does not seem to be the case.

    The Yankees should have kept Buck Showater, gotten him back, and let him run the GM job, as well as manage, if he thought he could do both. Buck is a great baseball mind, he just would’nt take the crap that GMS III was handing out.

  99. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Al-

    Some people are satisfied with Cashman’s patient approach.

    Carlo-

    Some people want to believe that something big is in the works. It would be great if that turns out to be true. I really doubt it though.

  100. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 10:03 am

    MTU -

    Folks that believe Cashman has some great big deal he’ll announce soon, do so, because they can’t bring themselves to believe this is the best it’s going to get this off season.

  101. Mike Ri December 29th, 2010 at 10:04 am

    Folks that believe Cashman has some great big deal he?ll announce soon, do so, because they can?t bring themselves to believe this is the best it?s going to get this off season.

    Great Point Big AL

  102. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 10:07 am

    Al-

    I think the most likely scenario is that Cashman will add another arm to both the rotation and the pen.

    I’m convinced that he would not tempt fate and go into the season with 2 rookies and AJ in our rotation.

  103. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    It may be that Cashman knows he’ll get last dibs on any of Boras’s
    clients, i.e. Soriano, etc.

    Perhaps that allows him to buy time.

    Only Cashman’s hairdresser knows for sure.

    :)

  104. Chip December 29th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 9:48 am
    The Red Sox are talking with Brian Fuentes, does Cashman let them get him as well. Sometimes you sign a player, just to keep him away from the competition.

    ——————

    Last time the Yankees took that approach – signing a player they don’t need to keep him away from Boston – they wound up with Jose Canseco.

    If the Yankees needed Fuentes I would say go for it. In fact I might be convinced that they could use Fuentes as an 8th inning guy if not for the fact that I’ve seen him spit the bit in many pressure packed situations for both the Angels and Twins.

    The Red Sox are building up a pretty solid “name” team but it remains to be seen how well guys like Jenks and Wheeler perform in their different roles in the pen – Eric Gagne couldn’t handle it.

  105. Yankee Trader December 29th, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Chip-

    Deal #1 with Astros- only makes some sense if Houston looking to unload salary, since they’re unlikely to compete in that division.

    Deal#2 with Rockies-why would they trade their only closer in Street, now that Dotel is gone? Get me Dexter Fowler and I’ll include Gardner in that deal.

    Andruw Jones and his .219 average against righties-no thanks.

  106. Chip December 29th, 2010 at 10:19 am

    Carlo December 29th, 2010 at 9:51 am
    BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 9:41 am

    My question to Cashman, having seen all the talent that’s come off the board thus far, what are you waiting for to make the deals necessary to keep this team on top.

    ———————————

    To steal a line from Casey Close, Cashmans handling of the free agency period to date has been baffling. I am of the belief that patience will ultimately pay off and that the utter silence from the yankees could be an indicator that something larger and clearly transformational is in the works…….however, if i am wrong in that belief……his unwillingness to make some smaller moves to date leaves me very concerned with the direction this organization is taking.

    ————————–

    Cashman has made the smaller moves he thinks are needed (Martin and Feliciano)

    Again – the plan coming in this winter was: Sign Lee, bring back Jeter and Mo and do some tinkering around the edges.

    He’s done three of those four things – just because he didn’t get Lee doesn’t mean he should go away from the plan that he had coming in. It also doesn’t make the available players any better just because Lee is off the market.

    As I said before – spending good money on bad players doesn’t make you a good team – it makes you the Mets.

  107. Chip December 29th, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Yankee Trader December 29th, 2010 at 10:18 am
    Chip-

    Deal #1 with Astros- only makes some sense if Houston looking to unload salary, since they’re unlikely to compete in that division. The team is up for sale. Most owners looking to sell the team also look to cut overhead to increase the profit margin

    Deal#2 with Rockies-why would they trade their only closer in Street, now that Dotel is gone? Get me Dexter Fowler and I’ll include Gardner in that deal. They just traded for Matt Lindstrom

    Andruw Jones and his .219 average against righties-no thanks. I don’t want him to hit against righties; I want him to hit against lefties

  108. mick December 29th, 2010 at 10:24 am

    # BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 10:03 am

    MTU -

    Folks that believe Cashman has some great big deal he’ll announce soon, do so, because they can’t bring themselves to believe this is the best it’s going to get this off season.
    ======================
    Didn’t know there was a time limit.
    How can you make that statement with any certainty.
    Whether Andy comes back or not, there will be other moves.

  109. Mell December 29th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    “The Red Sox are building up a pretty solid “name” team but it remains to be seen how well guys like Jenks and Wheeler perform in their different roles in the pen”

    Jenks will be interesting. Don’t really see where Wheeler’s role changes all that much though. He’s actually had a pretty good history pitching in the AL East, especially the past three years. Odd thing is he absolutely owned………..the Red Sox. Ups and downs vs. the Yankees, but more recently it’s been downs.

  110. Yankee Trader December 29th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    MTU-

    The question is what arm gets added to the rotation if Pettitte retires?

    FA’s Francis, Capuano and Doug Davis from the left side are too iffy based on long injury histories.

    FA Garcia has diminishing velocity, sports a > 5.0 ERA against righties over the last 4-5 years.

    Even though FA Brad Penny is supposed to be in the best shape of his career-engaged to Dancing of the Stars regular, can he help?

    FA Chris Young? Also dealing with shoulder issues.

    At the moment the only FA starter left that makes sense is Pettitte.

  111. randy l. December 29th, 2010 at 10:26 am

    “Insanity has been known to run in families.”

    mtu-

    i think someone like gb7 is just a carrier; he just makes other people crazy.

  112. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 10:31 am

    Trader-

    Cashman will have to find one if AP retires.

    It may be one of the guys off the scrap heap but whoever it is will have to be able to eat innings and protect the pen.

    In addition, some would argue that he should sign somebody as insurance wether or not AP comes back.

    IMO, if AP were to return we would be fine with Nova as #5.

    Any BP moves should be independent of starting rotation ones.

    They are not antagonistic to each other but complimentary.

  113. mick December 29th, 2010 at 10:31 am

    Fuentes is not a neccesity.
    A righty RP like Rauch or Gregg would be better.
    They prob. want too much and Cash has them on hold till Andy makes up his mind.

  114. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Chip -

    Come on, where’s your big trade answer to Cashman’s inactivity?

    I realize there’s much truth to what you’re saying, but, fuentes does have good numbers overall, and even the great ones spit the bit at times. I can only look at a players overall numbers to measure against other players available as a tool.

    And, it’s not the moves that Cashman’s made that concern me, it’s the moves he hasn’t made that worry me.

  115. 108 stitches December 29th, 2010 at 10:32 am

    The Astros don’t need a utility infielder. They signed Bill Hall and are willing to part with Jeff Keppinger to provide some salary relief, little as it may be.
    This is the final arbitration year for LHSP Wandy Rodriquez and he’ll likely get $5-6M before becoming a free agent after the 2011 season.
    For both Keppinger and Rodriquez, Houston might listen to Romine + either Russo or Curtis.

  116. Chip December 29th, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Mell December 29th, 2010 at 10:25 am
    “The Red Sox are building up a pretty solid “name” team but it remains to be seen how well guys like Jenks and Wheeler perform in their different roles in the pen”

    Jenks will be interesting. Don’t really see where Wheeler’s role changes all that much though. He’s actually had a pretty good history pitching in the AL East, especially the past three years. Odd thing is he absolutely owned………..the Red Sox. Ups and downs vs. the Yankees, but more recently it’s been downs.

    —————————-

    I can’t see Wheeler pitching in anything more than a mop up role really. They have Bard in the 8th, Jenks in the 7th – one of those guys is going to have to get blown up or injured for Wheeler to see a bit spot.

    You’re right – Jenks is interesting because he’s not just going to be the set up guy – he’s going to be setting up for the set up guy and if they ink Fuentes he won’t even be doing that on a regular basis.

    I’m not sure how well he’s going to do in that role but it’s a nice problem to have and Boston can move him in July to sure up another spot.

  117. mick December 29th, 2010 at 10:34 am

    And, it’s not the moves that Cashman’s made that concern me, it’s the moves he hasn’t made that worry me.
    ====================
    Which moves Al?
    Crawford? Agon?Jenks?

  118. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Randy-

    You may be right. I have been similarly accused. I do not think insanity can be transmitted via air, thru touch, or via computer screen. I could be wrong.
    ;)

    It’s in the Wrangler’s in some cases. Sometimes Trauma causes a snap. And sometimes they act together to form a real witches brew.

  119. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 10:36 am

    Poor GB7, he’s not even here to defend himself.

    But, then again, anyone that let’s “Killer” use his computer, eat his pizza, and drink his beer, can’t be all there, so, Randy might be right.

  120. mick December 29th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    To get Fuentes to block the rs is ludicrous.

  121. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    Al-

    “Killer” has caused GB much grief lately.

    :(

  122. West Coast Yankee Fan December 29th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    “Bailey Stephens of MLB.com says some of those teams that acquired relievers in recent days may now have less interest in Fuentes. The list includes the Yankees (Pedro Feliciano), Brewers (Takashi Saito) and Rockies (Matt Lindstrom).”

    -ESPN.com

  123. BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    MTU -

    I’ll catch you later.

  124. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Without Andy, and without Cashman pulling a rabbit out of his hat which he still has time to do, the Yanks are going to be about a 90 win club.

    That won’t win the AL East but may be good enough to grab the WC, although of course it may not be good enough either.

    Strangely, I find that liberating. I’d like to see the Yanks go with Nova and one of their kids in the two remaining starting slots, and be able to resist the pressure of trading Montero.

    I’d really enjoy watching the Yanks, win or lose, with two arms from the minor league system in the rotation.

  125. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Al-

    You’ll never catch me. I’m too fast.

    ;)

  126. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 10:42 am

    WYH-

    I don’t believe Cashman thinks the way you do. But he might.

    :)

  127. austinmac December 29th, 2010 at 10:42 am

    MTU,

    It is good to know one can do the dibs process in free agency. I think I will try it at work. :)

    I very much doubt Cashman has a grand scheme at work. He is, I strongly suspect, scrambling to come up with a starter. I wish him luck.

  128. West Coast Yankee Fan December 29th, 2010 at 10:43 am

    Not being prepared = scrambling.

  129. mick December 29th, 2010 at 10:44 am

    Andy wants to be begged to come back. He wants respect and more money like Jeter, they are not giving in to his demands. He knows how badly we want and need him. Hasn’t this happened before?

  130. Carlo December 29th, 2010 at 10:45 am

    # MTU December 29th, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Randy-

    You may be right. I have been similarly accused. I do not think insanity can be transmitted via air, thru touch, or via computer screen. I could be wrong.
    ;)

    It’s in the Wrangler’s in some cases. Sometimes Trauma causes a snap. And sometimes they act together to form a real witches brew.

    ———————————————–

    The guy has treated me like complete sht since day one on this board. it is to the point now where i actually find humor in his spastic outbursts.

  131. Mike Ri December 29th, 2010 at 10:45 am

    Wave Your Hat -

    Its Yankee fans like you that irritate me..

    Let me get this straight !

    You find it “Liberating” that the Yankees won’t win the divison and miss out on the wild card ?

    You’d rather see the Yankees FAIL and miss out on the playoffs . . .just to see the kids including Nova pitch in the roation !!

    –Typical Propsect Hugger . . . I now HOPE and PRAY they trade some prospects away . .

  132. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 10:46 am

    Austin-

    I have no idea if Cashman is still just trolling, or has a fish on the line.

    I just hope he is committed to not going into the season with 2 rookies and AJ as 3/5′s of our rotation especially if he hasn’t fortified the BP to the point where it’s killer.

    Time will tell.

  133. mick December 29th, 2010 at 10:46 am

    carlo

    you never been big timed before?

  134. austinmac December 29th, 2010 at 10:48 am

    Carlo,

    For what it’s worth, I enjoy and agree with most all of your posts. You seem quite reasonable and rational. Is it such a bad thing to recognize a weakness and suggest corrections for the betterment of the team? If it is, why have blogs?

  135. mick December 29th, 2010 at 10:50 am

    Between the senility, the arrogance and the immaturity, I don’t know which is worst…

  136. mick December 29th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    If these are our typical Yankee fans….i forgot the worrisome and the negative….then “Enjoy” it while you can, it won’t last forever…

  137. Chip December 29th, 2010 at 10:53 am

    BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 10:32 am
    Chip -

    Come on, where’s your big trade answer to Cashman’s inactivity?

    I realize there’s much truth to what you’re saying, but, fuentes does have good numbers overall, and even the great ones spit the bit at times. I can only look at a players overall numbers to measure against other players available as a tool.

    And, it’s not the moves that Cashman’s made that concern me, it’s the moves he hasn’t made that worry me.

    ———————————-

    Al,

    Like what?

    He tried on Lee, didn’t happen
    He didn’t want Crawford, Victor, Werth or Benoit and I don’t blame him – he had no place for three fo them and the fourth is highly overrated.
    He didn’t feel like Greinke was a good fit here at the price – I have to trust him on that because we’ll never know for sure whether it would have worked here or not.

    Downs would have been nice, but not for a first round pick
    Harden wanted to go back to the A’s
    Wood wanted to go back to Chicago where he’s getting a lifetime contract

    What has Brian really missed out on?

    This has been a slow moving winter that is very light on top talent. Their are still plenty of players out there who will help the Yankees but I’m guessing right now the agents are all jacking up their prices hoping Cashman panics and is willing to overpay to satisfy the bloodlust of the fans. He’s not going to do that – he’ll wait until January when these players start worrying about getting a contract at all and the prices drop – the after Christmas sales if you will.

  138. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Mike Ri-

    I think you’ll find most people on the blog don’t put me in the prospect hugging camp, LOL.

    I think people like you simply aren’t being realistic, but it doesn’t irritate me as it takes all kinds I think.

    Short of Cashman pulling off a miracle deal, without Andy there’s no “veteran arms” available out there that are going to make the Yanks significantly better than they’d be pitching some combination of Nova, Phelps, Mitchell, Noesi or Brackman.

    Given that, I’d rather watch those guys than watch Mitre, Millwood et al. And going with the kids holds the possibility for a pleasant upside, either this year or down the road, which the Mitre, Millwood, Garcia etc plan really doesn’t.

    I think you can be a fan of the Yanks without needing them to be the odds-on favorite every year. I like it when they are, but I can root for them just as hard when they aren’t.

    How about you?

  139. Chip December 29th, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2010 at 10:40 am
    Without Andy, and without Cashman pulling a rabbit out of his hat which he still has time to do, the Yanks are going to be about a 90 win club.

    That won’t win the AL East but may be good enough to grab the WC, although of course it may not be good enough either.

    Strangely, I find that liberating. I’d like to see the Yanks go with Nova and one of their kids in the two remaining starting slots, and be able to resist the pressure of trading Montero.

    I’d really enjoy watching the Yanks, win or lose, with two arms from the minor league system in the rotation.

    ————————–

    Given the price for Yankee tickets I don’t find it liberating at all.

    If a couple of kids are good enough to command a shot in the rotation then I’m all for it. If Montero blows the doors off AAA and forces his way into the majors so be it. But handing prospects jobs and saying “just go out there and sink or swim” and thinking that their development is worth possibly missing the playoffs is idiocy – it’s what the team did with Joba, Hughes and Kennedy in 08 and of the three only 1 of them actually has developed into anything good.

  140. randy l. December 29th, 2010 at 10:56 am

    there is a risk in bad free agent signings, but cashman is getting into the situation with pitching where there is as much risk or more in not doing anything.

    signing soriano makes sense on a lot of levels.

  141. Chip December 29th, 2010 at 10:57 am

    MTU December 29th, 2010 at 10:46 am
    Austin-

    I have no idea if Cashman is still just trolling, or has a fish on the line.

    I just hope he is committed to not going into the season with 2 rookies and AJ as 3/5?s of our rotation especially if he hasn’t fortified the BP to the point where it’s killer.

    Time will tell.

    ———————

    Agree 100%

  142. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2010 at 10:57 am

    BIG AL December 29th, 2010 at 9:22 am
    I love Andy, but, I disagree with those that say he’s earned the right to take his time in telling the Yankees whether or not he’ll return.

    If AP has any respect for the team, and his fellow players, he’d make an announcement as soon after the season ended, as possible. His delay, the extra time afforded Lee, took Cashman out of the market for players that could have helped this team.

    I can understand the process, but, this is a business, and business decisions need to be made in a timely manner.

    ///I think you’re assuming a lot here.AP has never not “respected” his teammates,that’s ridiculous.if you recall,he told the yanks that even if he comes back he won’t be able to work out the same way this offseason because of his hamstring.did you ever consider that maybe he’s waiting to see how much he heals?& then make a decision based on his pre-ST health?the idea that he’s just twiddling his thumbs or pulling leaves off clover “i play,” “i retire” and making the yanks sweat it out is absurdly silly.that’s not Andy Pettitte.

  143. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 10:59 am

    Chip-

    Now I know I’m in trouble.

    Next thing you know Bret will come in here and agree with me too.

    :)

  144. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2010 at 10:59 am

    “Given the price for Yankee tickets I don’t find it liberating at all.”

    Are you one of those Yankee fans that feels they are personally screwed if the Yanks don’t win the WS because of all the money you dropped watching them play?

  145. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2010 at 11:00 am

    randy-

    I don’t see enough bang for the buck in the Yanks signing Soriano.

  146. Chip December 29th, 2010 at 11:01 am

    randy l. December 29th, 2010 at 10:56 am
    there is a risk in bad free agent signings, but cashman is getting into the situation with pitching where there is as much risk or more in not doing anything.

    signing soriano makes sense on a lot of levels.

    ————————-

    What levels are those?

    Signing Soriano means giving closer money to a guy who isn’t going to close for at least 2 years just so you can have a closer three years from now.

    There are plenty of EIG who can give you similar results to Soriano at much lower cost, would allow you to keep your first round pick. At the same time, this is an organization loaded with pitching prospects, not all of those starters are going to make it as starters in the majors and so it’s possible, if not probable, that the Yankees can get their heir to Rivera from that group.

  147. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 11:02 am

    WYH-

    Ever the iconoclastic contararian.

    Too cool.

    :)

  148. Carlo December 29th, 2010 at 11:03 am

    # mick December 29th, 2010 at 10:46 am

    carlo

    you never been big timed before?

    —————————

    Hahaha – over the last 30+ years of my life i have been big timed often…..but since i came here, it seems like i have experienced a spike in big timings.

  149. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2010 at 11:03 am

    MTU-

    I do my best. ;)

  150. 86w183 December 29th, 2010 at 11:04 am

    Cashman has said many times there are a number of deals to be made if he wanted to just make a deal. Obviously he’s trying to make a better deal on his terms.

    Soriano, Fuentes, Gregg and Rausch are all looking for “closer” opportunities even through there are few out there. At some point each will decide to take a Jenks like deal to set up for a contender or a lower paying gig on a bad team in order to close. I still expect Soriano to end up with the Angels, but who knows?

    Brett Meyers had a career year (14-8, 3.14) at age 30 and is signed multi-year with a $ 7 M salary for 2011. He’s a valuable asset to Houston. Brandon Lyon and Jeff Keppinger are more available.

  151. Carlo December 29th, 2010 at 11:05 am

    # austinmac December 29th, 2010 at 10:48 am

    Carlo,

    For what it’s worth, I enjoy and agree with most all of your posts. You seem quite reasonable and rational. Is it such a bad thing to recognize a weakness and suggest corrections for the betterment of the team? If it is, why have blogs?

    ——————————

    Thanks man……I enjoy carrying on rational baseball discussions about the yankees……the problem is, to be rational, you have to sometimes identify and discuss the faults of the team…..that doesnt always go over well. I am partially to blame though because I do get over emotional about the team sometimes…..which is both good and bad…..bad when things arent going well, like this offseason in my opinion.

  152. Chip December 29th, 2010 at 11:05 am

    Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2010 at 10:59 am
    “Given the price for Yankee tickets I don’t find it liberating at all.”

    Are you one of those Yankee fans that feels they are personally screwed if the Yanks don’t win the WS because of all the money you dropped watching them play?

    ———————-

    Nope.

    But I am “one of those Yankee fans” who doesn’t mind paying high prices because I know that the investment goes back on to the field and gives my team the best shot at making the playoffs year in and year out.

    For the Yankees to do as you suggest – just turn 2/5 of the rotation over to kids, throw Montero to the wolves…and put development ahead of winning at the major league level is insulting. They are not the Royals. Prospect development should be done at the minor league level and only when the kid is ready should he be up here.

    As I said, I have no problem turning over spots to kids if they’re obviously ready to perform, but they should have to earn a spot, not have it handed to them the way Hughes and Kennedy were handed spots in 08.

    If the Yankees had a Freddy Garcia type pitcher in 08 as insurane for when Kennedy crumbled I believe that team would have made the playoffs.

  153. Chip December 29th, 2010 at 11:06 am

    86w183 December 29th, 2010 at 11:04 am

    Brett Meyers had a career year (14-8, 3.14) at age 30 and is signed multi-year with a $ 7 M salary for 2011. He’s a valuable asset to Houston. Brandon Lyon and Jeff Keppinger are more available.
    ——————————–

    I agree – Myers is a valuable asset to Houston which is why I’m willing to part with a guy who will take over as their starting SS (Nunez) a potential mid rotation starter for them in Nova, and Austin Romine and take back the albatross salary of Lyon to get him.

  154. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 11:07 am

    WYH-

    It a dirty job breathin’ in all those tailpipe fumes but somebody has to do it.

    You do quite well in opposing the conventional wisdom.

    :)

  155. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 11:09 am

    Carlo-

    I give the secret for dealing with GB.

    Bad puns. He can’t resist them.

    ;)

  156. Mike Ri December 29th, 2010 at 11:09 am

    I think you can be a fan of the Yanks without needing them to be the odds-on favorite every year. I like it when they are, but I can root for them just as hard when they aren?t.

    How about you?

    Wave your Hat –

    I’ll root for the Yankees till the day I pass. And please dont’ take this the wrong way.. But I find your thinking to be insane.. :-)…. I know we can’t win it every year.. but I personally don’t take losing very lightly ,, Im also not going to sit back and feel liberated knowing ….. “Hey at least we’re losing with our own homegrown kids ” Its a poor excuse to put a bow on a losing season.

  157. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2010 at 11:10 am

    “throw Montero to the wolves”

    What are you talking about? Reading comprehension not your best asset I guess.

    “and put development ahead of winning at the major league level is insulting”

    No it isn’t, especially when there may be no choice.

    “If the Yankees had a Freddy Garcia type pitcher in 08 as insurane for when Kennedy crumbled I believe that team would have made the playoffs.”

    Well you are entitled to your opinion but unfortunately our beliefs usually don’t change reality. If I thought getting Freddy Garcia or a Kevin Millwood would make a difference I’d say go get him, but since I don’t I think getting a pitcher like that would actually be a step backwards.

  158. Yankee Trader December 29th, 2010 at 11:10 am

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/arbtracker2011

    Maybe from this list of arb-eligible players you can find some from a team unwilling to up their payroll.

    Anabel Sanchez and/or Leo Nunez Marlinfs?
    Tom Gorzelanny Cubs?

  159. Carlo December 29th, 2010 at 11:12 am

    # MTU December 29th, 2010 at 11:09 am

    Carlo-

    I give the secret for dealing with GB.

    Bad puns. He can’t resist them.

    ;)

    ————————

    I will try that. Sometimes, when I see him around…..I just say something inflammatory just to see his absurdly aggressive response. I think the other day i said something and he responded and said Santa missed my house and i will have to go back to Kmart and buy the things I didn’t get.

  160. Cashman needs to go December 29th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    “I didn’t put it there, my agent did, as a strategy,” Soria said. “But if the Royals decide to trade me to New York I would gladly go to play with the Yankees or any other team… I repeat, I would not block a trade to the Yankees. I like to play baseball and I would play with any team.”

    ********************

    I love when the self annointed experts on this blog show just how dumb, uninformed and down right wrong they really are. I forget, who on here was calling everyone baseball idiots when they suggested the yankees should trade for Soria last year. This person’s reasoning was that Soria would never lower himself to be a set up man with the yankees and that he would only want to be a closer. It just goes to show just wrong this person is, has been and will be in the future. And how silly most of you are to be hanging on this person’s every word….

  161. Mike Ri December 29th, 2010 at 11:14 am

    New Thread —>

  162. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Mike Ri-

    My point is that – again barring Cashman pulling off a miracle deal which is my preference – the pitchers you and your like-mined fellows want aren’t going to make the Yanks better than the high-minors kids.

    In fact, it could make the Yanks worse, because there is no guarantee a vet will pitch well, or even OK, and he’ll take up IPs that should be going to discover which of the minor league arms is a keeper.

    JMO of course.

  163. Carlo December 29th, 2010 at 11:15 am

    # Mike Ri December 29th, 2010 at 11:09 am

    I’ll root for the Yankees till the day I pass. And please dont’ take this the wrong way.. But I find your thinking to be insane.. :-) …. I know we can’t win it every year.. but I personally don’t take losing very lightly ,, Im also not going to sit back and feel liberated knowing ….. “Hey at least we’re losing with our own homegrown kids ” Its a poor excuse to put a bow on a losing season.

    ———————————

    Totally agree…..to not accept losing doesnt make some of us spoiled fans…..i dont turn my back on the team when we dont win…..that would be a spoiled bandwagon fan…..but by the same token i want to win every year just like any other competitive fan of a sports team wants for his or her favorite team. There is nothing wrong with that and there is nothing wrong with being disappointed by a failure to do so.

    The way the team is set up right now, I expect a failure to win it all in 2011………I can certainly be proven wrong and hope I am……and regardless, i will be back next year.

  164. Chip December 29th, 2010 at 11:15 am

    Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2010 at 11:10 am

    “and put development ahead of winning at the major league level is insulting”

    No it isn’t, especially when there may be no choice.
    ————————-

    Yes, it really is – and when you have a team with Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira, Robinson Cano – you should be focused on winning each and every year. And by the way, that’s not my opinion, that’s the opinion of the players themselves. The same guys who were furious about Joba being moved into the rotation because they saw him as a dominant reliever who could help them win today not a potential starter who might help them win 2 years from now.

    I will say it again; if the kids are ready to play at this level, let them earn it. Don’t just hand it to them because you feel that their development is more important than winning games.

  165. MTU December 29th, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Carlo-

    Little know desert fact :

    Did you know that prickly pear Cactus is very sweet on the inside even though the thorns hurt like hell ?

    How do our farmers deal with that ?

    They find a way to burn off the thorns so the cattle can get to the good part.

    ;)

  166. Cashman needs to go December 29th, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Chip December 29th, 2010 at 11:06 am
    86w183 December 29th, 2010 at 11:04 am

    Brett Meyers had a career year (14-8, 3.14) at age 30 and is signed multi-year with a $ 7 M salary for 2011. He’s a valuable asset to Houston. Brandon Lyon and Jeff Keppinger are more available.
    ——————————–

    I agree – Myers is a valuable asset to Houston which is why I’m willing to part with a guy who will take over as their starting SS (Nunez) a potential mid rotation starter for them in Nova, and Austin Romine and take back the albatross salary of Lyon to get him
    *******************

    Don’t the cubs already have a much much better SS in Starlin Castro? Why would they want a a below average major league SS in nunez?

  167. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2010 at 11:17 am

    To put it another way, I believe we can win as many games with two kids in the rotation as with an available vet and a kid. Maybe more.

    Since the upside is higher with two kids, that’s my preference.

  168. RayVT December 29th, 2010 at 11:18 am

    Signing Martin means the Yanks can gamble some on Sanchez as a Catcher in 2 years maybe 3 instead of Montero. Personally, I hope they keep Montero. Signing Soriano means the Yanks keep their prospects and really protect a position that would cripple the team if Mo were to get injured in 2011 or 2012. Also, Soriano would get opportunities to close as well as being the SU guy and would open the door to trade Joba.

    The Yanks have two things in their favor most every year, Time & Money. The 1st month the Yanks usually use 4 starters anyway, so really a #5 SP is not a necessity until May or even mid-May. I think the Yanks need another LHP unless Marte is somehow available in 2011. When teams fall out of contention early some players will be available for salary relief & the Yanks should be able to pick them up as the season progresses.

  169. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2010 at 11:19 am

    “Don’t just hand it to them because you feel that their development is more important than winning games.”

    Talking to you is frustrating. You don’t listen.

    How is letting Nova, Phelps, Mitchell, Noesi and maybe Brackman compete all year for two slots handing a job to anyone?

  170. Cashman needs to go December 29th, 2010 at 11:19 am

    sorry myers is with houston….i was thinking someone else…..

  171. randy l. December 29th, 2010 at 11:20 am

    “To put it another way, I believe we can win as many games with two kids in the rotation as with an available vet and a kid. Maybe more.”

    kids average about 41/2 innings in their starts and often need to be sent back down and another young guy brought up. you’d need 4 young guys to get 2 at any one time.

    if you are going to advocate doing this you’re going to need 4 young pitchers and some serious depth in the bullpen.

    soriano?

  172. mick December 29th, 2010 at 11:24 am

    of course the yanks would love to have soriano but does he want the Yanks is the real question…

  173. West Coast Yankee Fan December 29th, 2010 at 11:27 am

    This blog is a microcosm of American politics. We have our extremists on both sides of the ideological spectrum and independents in the middle. We have our loud pundits, our Glenn Becks and Keith Olbermann’s. And we have our voices of moderation, our Anderson Coopers.

    The Yankee Cheerleader Party. Club can do no wrong, Cashman is a genius, Girardi is great, the Sox stink, the Rays stink, the Jays stink, Burnett will win 20, the killer B’s will kill, A-Rod will hit 40, Jeter will hit .320, Gardner is better than Crawford, Grandy will dominate, K.Long is God, we are headed for number 28 no problem and everyone that doesn’t agree with us is a troll.

    The Doom and Gloom Party. This club is a disaster in the making. We are awful and are headed for fourth place, Girardi stinks, Cashman stinks, Hal stinks, we are old, Burnett will lose 20, Boston will win 115, Tex can’t hit, Jeter, Mo and Posada are done, we have a lousy rotation, we have no eighth inning guy, we have no bench, all the good free agents are gone, we are burnt toast and we hate everything.

    The Moderation Party: The Yankees are a very good team with some issues to address. We need a starter, a right-handed hitting outfielder, a setup guy and bench pieces. Cashman is a good GM who is working on it. Time will tell if he is successful. We are developing young pitchers but it will take patience. We may not win it all but we will be more than competitive and we have a shot at winning it all if our players perform at the level they are capable of. Boston has improved but they have some issues as well. You have to play the games.

  174. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2010 at 11:39 am

    WCYF – that’s a fair portrait.the moderation party is the sane one,so how come you hail from the Doom & Gloom group,which you clearly mock here? :D.

  175. 86w183 December 29th, 2010 at 11:53 am

    Chip — Lyon isn’t that much overpaid that he would be viewed as purely a salary dump. He’s been pretty good the last two years. I don’t think the package you proposed would be good enough… would probably have to add at least a Phelps/Warren type pitcher or possibly even Noesi.

    Cashman — Don’t confuse a player’s quote with the actual waiving a no-trade clause. They are entirely different things. Just because Soria made that statement it doesn’t mean he waives his no trade to be a set up man in NYC or anyone else.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see the guy in pinstripes…. but not if the price tag includes Montero and Nova or Nunez.

  176. roselora December 31st, 2010 at 4:03 am

    This posting should like spamming and other comments are good thanks for share it all information is good.horoscope

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