The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Yankees vs. Red Sox

Posted by: Brian Heyman - Posted in Misc on Dec 28, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees’ main focus right now is putting on this inaugural bowl game Thursday at Yankee Stadium, the Pinstripe Bowl between Syracuse and Kansas State. Besides Mark Teixeira, Randy Levine, Lonn Trost and the George M. Steinbrenner championship trophy will be at the Times Square Visitor Center promotional event today at 3.

In baseball dealings, it was the Mets making a deal Monday, albeit a very minor one, acquiring a possible backup middle infielder from the Dodgers, Chin-lung Hu, who hit .130 last season over 23 at-bats and 14 big-league games. And the Brewers signed a setup man in Takashi Saito.

Milwaukee is taking an all-in approach before Prince Fielder probably hits the open market, also adding starters Zack Greinke from the Royals and Shaun Markum from the Blue Jays. Octavio Dotel, according to reports, does appear close to joining the Toronto relief mix. Maybe the Jays will be able to leap the Rays this season.

The Red Sox still look to me like the class of the division with their improvements (especially Carl Crawford), returning players who were injured and rotation. But I think their bullpen is still a little suspect, even with the addition of Bobby Jenks.

Of course, we have about seven weeks for the Yankees to make some additional moves before pitchers and catchers report to Tampa. But, being objective, would you rank the Red Sox ahead of the Yankees right now?

 
 

Advertisement

413 Responses to “Yankees vs. Red Sox”

  1. Chip December 28th, 2010 at 11:07 am

    Brian -

    Right now yes I would rank the Red Sox ahead of the Yankees.

    Bucholtz and Dice are better than what the Yankees have in the 4 and 5 spots of their rotation and with Jenks, Wheeler and Bard the Sox have a solid bridge to Papelbon while with Robertson and Joba the Yankees do not.

  2. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 11:11 am

    1. Chip December 28th, 2010 at 11:07 am

    Brian -

    Right now yes I would rank the Red Sox ahead of the Yankees.

    Bucholtz and Dice are better than what the Yankees have in the 4 and 5 spots of their rotation and with Jenks, Wheeler and Bard the Sox have a solid bridge to Papelbon while with Robertson and Joba the Yankees do not.
    ————————————————————————-
    the all around RS team is better than the Yankees right but I do believe that will change….

  3. YES December 28th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    The Sox lineup is as good or better than the Yanks right now & their starting rotation is much better as it stands today.

    They added Jenks to an already strong 8th inning setup man in Bard.

    The Yanks should add R. Soriano to set up Rivera, act as insurance in case Mo does not stay healthy at age 41, & eventually take over for Mo.

    Than they can drop Joba & Robetson to the 6th & 7th innings and shorten the game for they weaker back end of the rotation.

  4. randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    “Any chance you would be willing to move in with Jerkface to try and help ween him off his “all the B’s are going to be stars” syndrome?”

    carlo-

    are you kidding me? jerkface and i would have a hard time standing next to each other in a grocery store check out line .

    he’d be saying my red tomatoes were over ripe and i’d be saying he wouldn’t be making salad any time soon with those green tomatoes.

  5. Chip December 28th, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Joeman -

    I don’t know about that – I would say offensively the Yankees and Red Sox are at least even right now.

    But while Brian points out that he believes the RS pen is still a little suspect I think the Yankee pen is a mess.

    I like Feliciano and Logan; but Robertson is way too inconsistent – he has some days where he looks cool and collected and able to get people out and then others where he just looks terrified on the mound and as for Joba – I just don’t trust him right now. He lost his spot as a key member of last year’s pen and hasn’t shown any desire to win it back so who knows.

  6. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 11:15 am

    I blame all joba’s problems on the Yankees…..the kid needed to stay in the minors a lot longer, they messed with his head going from SP to RP at such a young age,

  7. MaineYankee December 28th, 2010 at 11:18 am

    randy

    I’d be more concerned about you throwing those ripe tomatoes.

    Of course at your age that shouldn’t be much of a concern.

  8. RuhiRants December 28th, 2010 at 11:19 am

    The Red Sox replaced the offence they lost by not re-signing Beltre and V-Mart.

    They are ahead of the Yankees only because the Yankee pitching is in flux… if they re-sign Pettitte, and get another arm to shore it up, it will be Yankees ahead of the Sox again…

  9. MaineYankee December 28th, 2010 at 11:20 am

    Of course we know the RS have the heir apparent to Mo in their BP.

  10. blake December 28th, 2010 at 11:20 am

    Gonzalez is a much bigger acquisition for them than Crawford is. The still have questions in the middle and back end of their rotation, bullpen, big questions behind the plate, and whether they can stay healthy.

  11. randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 11:21 am

    ” But, being objective, would you rank the Red Sox ahead of the Yankees right now?”

    i don’t know what the red sox are right now as a team because their rotation has the potential to be have three really bad pitchers in it with beckett, matsuzaka and lackey.

    those three guys are big names , but their stats last year were really bad. if these three have another bad year like last year, the red sox will have an overall bad pitching staff which would mean they would not be the class of anything.

    too many people are having an emotional response to the signing of two offensive players who have nothing to do with the pitching .

  12. Mell December 28th, 2010 at 11:22 am

    “I don’t know about that – I would say offensively the Yankees and Red Sox are at least even right now”

    I think the Yankees lineup offers more flexibility than Boston’s. Good mix of left and right with some switchers thrown in. Right now, Boston could have some real issues against average to above average lefties. Not hard to envision a lot of platooning with that team.

  13. Chip December 28th, 2010 at 11:23 am

    I can’t blame them all on the Yankees.

    At some point Joba needs to put forth an effort to improve himself, he didn’t do that. Last year when he knew there would be competition from Hughes for the 5th spot Joba showed up to spring training more than 20 pounds overweight. Hughes on the other hand was trim and had spent the winter working on the secondary pitches he knew he would need to be an effective starter.

  14. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 11:25 am

    Yes Brian, boston could be considered better than the Yankees at this point.

    Could be.

    Rotation – yes.
    Lineup – no
    Bullpen – no

    But pitching is what counts, so starting rotation is better.

  15. YsGuy December 28th, 2010 at 11:26 am

    i dont rank, i root.
    i’ll go to war with what we’ve got.
    Beat them on the field and nobody will remember who got ranked where in december.
    bring on them socks!
    lets go yankees!

  16. blake December 28th, 2010 at 11:26 am

    What’s funny to me is the number of times I’ve seen Boston ranked as a top 5 rotation for 2011 when its essentially the same one that 3-5 was awful last year. To me Beckett and Lackey are no more givens to bounce back than AJ is…..if Beckett is healthy then he should be better but 2010 may just be what Lackey is at this point.

  17. Chip December 28th, 2010 at 11:26 am

    blake December 28th, 2010 at 11:20 am
    Gonzalez is a much bigger acquisition for them than Crawford is. The still have questions in the middle and back end of their rotation, bullpen, big questions behind the plate, and whether they can stay healthy.

    ————————

    Blake -

    I don’t dispute any of what you’re saying, but with the exception of catcher (where the Yankees also have a question mark) all the places Boston is questionable they are still better than the Yankees – right now.

    Bucholtz/Lackey/Dice are better than AJ/Mitre/Nova
    Bard/Wheeler/Jenks are a better bridge than Joba/Robertson
    Martin is a better catcher than Salty/Varitek

  18. Chip December 28th, 2010 at 11:29 am

    Mell December 28th, 2010 at 11:22 am
    “I don’t know about that – I would say offensively the Yankees and Red Sox are at least even right now”

    I think the Yankees lineup offers more flexibility than Boston’s. Good mix of left and right with some switchers thrown in. Right now, Boston could have some real issues against average to above average lefties. Not hard to envision a lot of platooning with that team
    ——————

    A lot of Boston’s lineup will depend on which David Ortiz shows up and the health of JD Drew and Jacoby Ellsbury.

    Of course for the Yankees a lot of our offense will depend on which Derek Jeter shows up and the health of Tex and A-Rod.

    I don’t think we can go into next season expecting Nick Swisher to hit around .300 again; but I do think Tex and Granderson will be better than they were.

  19. AldotheApache December 28th, 2010 at 11:32 am

    YsGuy says:
    December 28, 2010 at 11:26 am
    i dont rank, i root.
    i’ll go to war with what we’ve got.
    Beat them on the field and nobody will remember who got ranked where in december.
    bring on them socks!
    lets go yankees!

    ————-

    My kind of Yankees fan!

  20. icebird753 December 28th, 2010 at 11:32 am

    I really don’t care about who’s better now. The games haven’t even started yet

  21. randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    “I’d be more concerned about you throwing those ripe tomatoes.

    Of course at your age that shouldn’t be much of a concern.”

    maine yankee-

    i’ll bet i can throw faster than you can run :)

  22. murphydog December 28th, 2010 at 11:35 am

    I’m not sure Crawford is going to turn into Ricky Henderson just because he wears a Red Sox uniform. But he’ll help. Gonzalez will help too. Neither of them pitches, however. Slugging without dominant pitching was the Yankee formula from 2001 to 2008. How’d that work out?

    I’d say the Sox and Yanks are about dead even right now, each one a powerful, dangerous team in search of some starting pitching, either from pitchers already on the roster and expected to have a bounce back year, or by landing a big arm via trade between now and the 2011 deadline. The Bronx bullpen will sort it self out. It’s the rotation that will make the difference, not the bullpen.

  23. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 11:35 am

    I really don’t get but it’s been said many times here that the Yankees are a better hitting team and going by the stats because that is all you can go by and with key injuries to their key hitters well here are a few of the 2010 hitting stats between the two teams…

    runs scored….Yankees…859…Red Sox….818
    Hits…………..Yankees …1485….Red Sox….1511
    HR’S………Yankees 201….Red Sox…211
    RBI’s…..Yankees 823…Red Sox…..782
    Slug…..Yankees .451……Red Sox…..436
    total Bases…Yankees 2427….Red Sox…2546

    stats are close….but no Youk,Pedroia,Ellsbury,Cameron …Sox would have had much better stats in 10

  24. Chip December 28th, 2010 at 11:36 am

    Unrelated question:

    Josh Hamilton is under the control of the Rangers until the winter following 2012 season. At that point he’ll be 31. Assuming no major injury or skill regression – what would you see as a reasonable contract for him?

    The reason I ask is this: Would you, as a GM, be willing to make a 7 year investment in him like Washington did with Werth knowing that one slip up could spiral him back to where he was a few years ago?

  25. randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    i have a simple question.

    if the yankees added beckett to the rotation would he help it or hurt it?

    to me that tells where the red sox rotation is.

  26. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 11:39 am

    # Chip December 28th, 2010 at 11:23 am

    I can’t blame them all on the Yankees.

    At some point Joba needs to put forth an effort to improve himself, he didn’t do that. Last year when he knew there would be competition from Hughes for the 5th spot Joba showed up to spring training more than 20 pounds overweight. Hughes on the other hand was trim and had spent the winter working on the secondary pitches he knew he would need to be an effective starter.
    ——————————————————————————–

    he pitched 15 games in the minors after coming out of school, not nearly enough games to get ready for the majors….usually when pitchers do that they hurt their arms

  27. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Pedroia 75
    Youk 102
    Ellsbury 18
    Cameron 48

    lot of offense taken out of that Sox lineup in 10

  28. YankeesNmore December 28th, 2010 at 11:43 am

    The Red Sox bullpen is “a little iffy”???

    Their lineup is better than our’s, their rotation is better than our’s, their bullpen is better than our’s, and their bench is better than our’s.

    Other than that, the Yankees are right there!

    This offseason has been a complete disaster, thanks the aggressiveness of Theo Epstine and the complete incompetence of that worthless sack of dog$#!t we call Brian Cashman.

    “Do you ranks the Red Sox ahead of the Yankees”??? Are you taunting us, or just trying to find out how many complete morons frequent this board? The answer could not be more obvious, unless you are the Ray Charles (both blind AND dead) homers.

  29. YsGuy December 28th, 2010 at 11:43 am

    can you tell im jonesing for some baseball?

  30. West Coast Yankee Fan December 28th, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Gee Brian, how about a more incendiary question next time. There isn’t one? Right!

    I think the consensus around baseball is that the Red Sox retooled and are the team to beat in the American League as thing stands right now. Of course many Yankee fans take exception to that, with some focusing on Crawford’s long contract term. If there was anything that fell neatly into the “so what” category that would be it. Barring injury, it’s not something one should worry about with a 29 year old.

    What will swing this season one way or the other are the usual two suspects, injuries and pitching. One does have to play the games.

  31. blake December 28th, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Chip,

    The Yankees as an organization are in much much better shape at catcher than the Sox are.

    Rothschild is on Mlbradio right now.talking about Joba

  32. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Chip,

    Now that Lee signed elsewhere, Texas can lock up Hamilton long-term.
    I was hoping that if they signed Lee, they would not have enough to sign Hamilton when the time came.

    So much for that. But that’s their problem, we have our own.

  33. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 11:47 am

    don’t know if it’s to late but I would mind seeing Joba in the minors for half a season starting games to build up his arm strength….

  34. murphydog December 28th, 2010 at 11:48 am

    “The reason I ask is this: Would you, as a GM, be willing to make a 7 year investment in him like Washington did with Werth knowing that one slip up could spiral him back to where he was a few years ago?”

    There’s got to be some kind of “sobriety” clause in that contract, taking away guaranteed money if he falls off the wagon. At least I’d insist on one if I were the GM.

  35. randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    blake-

    can you get mlb radio on line?

  36. blake December 28th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Rothschild:
    “Joba needs to get to throwing downhill again to get that downward angle on his fastball and slider”. This is exactly right and when he did that last year he was nearly unhittable. If Rothschild can keep his shoulder closed and him on top of the ball then the stuff can.still be there.

  37. G. Love December 28th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    I don’t believe the Red Sox lineup is better than ours. I think that lineup is 4 deep in Gonzalez, Crawford, Youkilis and Pedroia.

    I don’t see Ortiz as a given for anything although he is playing for a contract again so who knows with him.

    Ellsbury, Drew, Scutaro and their catcher position don’t do anything to me.

    Teams will be able to pitch to Boston easily once you get past the top four hitters. And again, we’re assuming that Pedroia is 100%. That foot might not be right once he starts pounding on it every day. It was a nasty injury.

    If you go position by position vs. the Yankees the only position I would take the Boston player is 1b in Gonzalez and LF in Crawford. Otherwise I feel the Yankees have a clear advantage at every other position and an overwhelming advantage at 2b, RF, CF in my eyes.

    From there the pitching is where there’s a problem. Our rotation, as it stands, is not as good as the Red Sox. Neither is our pen as it stands.

    Say what you want about Beckett, Lackey, and Dice K, but I would take any of the three in our rotation right now in a heartbeat if they were available.

    Whether the Red Sox are overpaying for the three to give them league average kind of numbers isn’t the issue. The issue is they are league average starters and have the potential to be much better than that most nights.

    Our starting pitching with Aj, Nova and Mitre in those positions is a joke. It’s a sad commentary on how our front office approached this off season.

    Our pen without Wood is now a dominant reliever short and our front office has shown us it won’t pay for a reliever to fill that role. They’d rather trade for a 1/2 season of that player than have him there from day one.

    While I’m not as sold on the Red Sox bullpen as some, at least they have taken some chances and made some moves to give it potential depth.

    We’re relying on Robertsen taking that final step towards consistency (which I think he can) and we’re relying on an out of shape ex phenom with big league-itis to show up and pitch like he did 3 years ago which I don’t think he can.

    The bridge to Mo is weak in my opinion and it all depends on Robertsen pitching like a closer in his role. Joba can’t be depended on to tie his shoes. Robertsen is now the key to the pen without another addition.

    Now if the Yankees somehow get Andy to come back and sign Soriano we’re better than the Red Sox.

    As it stands today, their pitching trumps ours on paper.

  38. Cashman needs to go December 28th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Maybe the Jays will be able to leap the Rays this season..

    ************************

    umm…and the yankees as well if the team assembled on December 28 (even if you add a DL prone andy pettite to it) is the team that will be competing in 2011. Short of trading for a bonafide #2 starter and 2 more reliable arms in the bullpen and a real bench – this is a 3rd or 4th place team this year..

    if you have burnett, nova and mitre as your #’s 3,4 & 5 – with no one to fill in when someone inevitably goes on the DL (or just plain sucks) – then the only team they will be fighting off is the orioles ……………for last place..

  39. blake December 28th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Randy,

    Im.not sure but I bet you probably can….I get it on XM. Its pretty good sometimes.

  40. kd December 28th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    crawford for 7 years was a mistake for the sox. he’ll be good for as long as his legs are elite. he loses a step and he’s not the same player, not even close. he’s also soaking up a lot of their payroll.

    the reality is that if that yankees 3b and 2b were coming off of season ending injuries and surgeries, the media would be going nuts calling the team weak. the red sox are getting a free pass.

    their rotation is better in reputation only, three of the 5 are suspect.

    their bullpen is weak.

    the yankees simply need to find one starter, aka andy pettitte and the balance shifts back to the bronx. and if randy i is right, and joba can be a number 5 for the yankees, then all bets are off. if joba can go 10-5 with a 3.70 era, the al east is ours.

  41. YankeesNmore December 28th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    QUOTING Cashman needs to go:
    “umm…and the yankees as well if the team assembled on December 28 (even if you add a DL prone andy pettite to it) is the team that will be competing in 2011. Short of trading for a bonafide #2 starter and 2 more reliable arms in the bullpen and a real bench – this is a 3rd or 4th place team this year..

    if you have burnett, nova and mitre as your #’s 3,4 & 5 – with no one to fill in when someone inevitably goes on the DL (or just plain sucks) – then the only team they will be fighting off is the orioles ……………for last place.”
    ————————————————————————————————————–

    Nice to see somebody else with a realistic view of this crap pitching staff Cashman has put together.

    But hey, at least he served up $56 million worth of charity to a washed-up Derek Jeter. Nobody outside of AJ took more $#!ts on the Yankees 2010 season than Jeter did… Hey, let’s give him $17 million a year through the age of 40! Brilliant!

    PS. love the screen name

  42. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Andy ( or a SP who can get 200 ip and 13- 15 wins)..Soriano …and a very good utility hitter would move the Yankees ahead of the Sox

  43. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    If Teixeira can consistently hit from the left side [.247], especially against the shift, if Jeter can regain his stroke against righties [.246], A-Rod against lefties [.217], continued improvement Granderson against lefties [.234], improvement by Posada [overall .248], and Gardner [overall .277]-especially if he masters bunting, there’s no reason why our offensive production can’t be the best in the league.

    As it currently stands other than Crawford over Gardner, there isn’t a clear position player where the Red Sox are better than the Yankees.

  44. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    boston vs Yankees IMO

    1B: A Gonzalez vs Tex = Tex
    2B: Pedroia vs Cano = Cano
    SS: Scutaro/Lowrie vs Jeter = Jeter
    3B: Youk vs ARod = Arod (You thought I’d choose the non HOF player?)
    LF: Crawford vs Gardner = Crawford
    CF: Ellisbury vs Granderson = Granderson
    RF: Drew vs Swisher = even

    C: Salty/Varitek vs Marin/Posada/Montero/Cervelli/Grandma = Yankees

    Lester vs CC = CC
    Beckett vs Hughes = even
    Lackey vs AJ = even
    Buchholz vs Mitre = Buchholz
    Dice-K vs. Nova = Dice K

    Papplebum vs Mariano = Mariano
    Bard vs. Robertson = even
    Jenks vs. Joba = Jenks
    Wheeler vs ???? = Wheeler
    Doubront vs. Logan = Logan
    Wakefield vs. Feliciano = even

  45. Wave Your Hat December 28th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    On paper as things stand the Red Sox have better offense and significantly better pitching than the Yanks do:

    http://www.rlyw.net/index.php/....._standings

    However, the Red Sox are probably closer to their final 2011 roster than The Yanks are, so I expect the gap to close some before the season starts.

  46. Jonny No Game December 28th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Just purchased 4 nice tickets to yankees vs. red sox on 4/9/2010. Does anybody know when the time of the games for the upcoming season will be finalized? MLB schedule right now says its a 100pm game, but the tickets say its a 700pm game. Any ideas?

  47. Jonny No Game December 28th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    4/9/2011 i meant to say

  48. Mell December 28th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    “To me Beckett and Lackey are no more givens to bounce back than AJ is…..if Beckett is healthy then he should be better but 2010 may just be what Lackey is at this point”

    In some small amount of fairness to Lackey, he was a lot better pitcher in the 2nd half than he was the 1st. 3.97 ERA, 1.21 WHIP, .705 OPS against, 7.8 K/9, 3.38 K/BB over his 15 2nd half starts compared to 4.75, 1.60 WHIP, .816 OPS against, 5.4 K/9, 1.48 K/BB over 18 1st half starts. Don’t know whether some adjustment time to Boston was an issue or what the deal was, but those 2nd half numbers are not too terribly far from his career norms. If he reverts to the mean, he makes a strong #4 starter.

    As has been suggested before, this may really come down to Beckett. He’ll never be a workhorse, but if he’s healthy and can revert to his mean, which is 190-200 IP, 3.75 ERA, 1.22 or so WHIP, then maybe Boston has themselves something.

  49. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    # kd December 28th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    crawford for 7 years was a mistake for the sox. he’ll be good for as long as his legs are elite. he loses a step and he’s not the same player, not even close. he’s also soaking up a lot of their payroll.

    the reality is that if that yankees 3b and 2b were coming off of season ending injuries and surgeries, the media would be going nuts calling the team weak. the red sox are getting a free pass.

    their rotation is better in reputation only, three of the 5 are suspect.

    their bullpen is weak.

    the yankees simply need to find one starter, aka andy pettitte and the balance shifts back to the bronx. and if randy i is right, and joba can be a number 5 for the yankees, then all bets are off. if joba can go 10-5 with a 3.70 era, the al east is ours.
    ————————————————————–
    joba would have to stay in the minors for a while if he were to become a SP again

  50. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    Yankee Trader December 28th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    If Teixeira can consistently hit from the left side [.247], especially against the shift, if Jeter can regain his stroke against righties [.246], A-Rod against lefties [.217], continued improvement Granderson against lefties [.234], improvement by Posada [overall .248], and Gardner [overall .277]-especially if he masters bunting, there’s no reason why our offensive production can’t be the best in the league.
    ——————————————————-
    Yankee…hate the little word …if

  51. MaineYankee December 28th, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    randy

    There has been an accident at Sugarloaf.

    A ski lift cable let go and some have been injured in the fall.

    It’s to windy for a chopper to get there.

    No word yet on how many injured or how bad.

  52. YankeesNmore December 28th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    You know you’re dealing with a realistic point of view when a guy ranks Bard vs. David Robertson as “even.”

  53. blake December 28th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    I think the Yankees are better at 6 of the 8 positions on the field.. Id call Teixera and Agon a wash at this point. Teixera had a down year in 2010 but his career numbers are better nearly across the board and he isn’t going to have to adjust to a new league (that has a lot of good LH pitching).

  54. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Yankee…hate the little word …if
    ——————————

    Agree :)

  55. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Blake-

    Good point, but A-Gone hit lefties at a .337 average

  56. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    YankeesNmore December 28th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
    You know you’re dealing with a realistic point of view when a guy ranks Bard vs. David Robertson as “even.”
    —————————————–

    Its my opinion buddy, deal with it.:-)

  57. tyanksfan36 December 28th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    I don’t really see the problem with being a “homer” I like my team regardless of its flaws. I do appreciate the game and other players on other teams but when it comes down to who I’m going to root for it will be the Yankees, regardless of the team they put out there, everytime.

  58. Cashman needs to go December 28th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    If I had a nickel for every “if” …..

    (i.e. if andy pettite resigns, if burnett miraculously becomes a real pitcher again, if derek jeter turns back the hands of time, if mariano rivera pitches like he’s 32 instead of 42, if Teixeira shows up in april, may and september, if ivan nova can pitch more than 4 good innings, if granderson can hit like he did in 1 of 6 months last year, if gardner actually decides to become an elite bunter and base stealer and stay healthy, if AROD decides not to be a singles hitter, if russell martin is healthy enough to be average, if posada can avoid the DL, if the bridge to an aging rivera can be built from the crap they have laying around, if a pitching coach who has done NOTHING in chicago can come in here and perform miracles, if 1,2 or up to 4 rookies can actually be competitive in the big leagues, if everyone who had a below average year can pick it up, if the loser GM can make mid season trades when he’s shown a reluctance to trade any of his precious minor leaguers who have done nothing in the big leagues, if Hal decides to actually start spending money instead of the cheapskate that is the total opposite of his father, if, if if…..)

    then I’d at least have about 100 bucks extra in my wallet….

  59. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    AJ & Lackey are dead even SP..Wins..ERA & Age

  60. randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    “There has been an accident at Sugarloaf.”

    maine yankee-

    i ‘ve been watching it on cnn

    how far to sugarloaf from you? 30 minutes?

  61. austinmac December 28th, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    Lackey is not a top flight pitcher, but he would be looking pretty good for the Yankees 4th starter. He is the type of pitcher the Yankees are looking for, but at a lower cost.

    Yankee Trader, that sure is a lot of ifs. Never in a million years will they all happen. I hope for some of them to improve.

  62. MaineYankee December 28th, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    randy

    No. I’m about an hour from Farmington.

  63. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    even at hitting (Sox might be a little better)
    Sox a little better at SP
    the big dif right now is the BP…..Sox are better

    Andy & Soriano will solve that problem

  64. Rich in NJ December 28th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    The RS have almost as many question marks as the Yankees, if not more.

  65. Chip December 28th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 11:45 am
    Chip,

    Now that Lee signed elsewhere, Texas can lock up Hamilton long-term.
    I was hoping that if they signed Lee, they would not have enough to sign Hamilton when the time came.

    So much for that. But that’s their problem, we have our own.

    ——————–

    Question isn’t whether they have enough money to sign him – it’s whether the risk involved with signing a recovering alcoholic/drug abuser to a long term deal is worth the potential reward

  66. Mell December 28th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    “AJ & Lackey are dead even SP..Wins..ERA & Age”

    WHIP too.

    However, Burnett is nearly two years older. He’ll be 34 in a week. Lackey turned 32 two months ago.

  67. YankeesNmore December 28th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Its my opinion buddy, deal with it.:-)
    ——————————————————————————————-
    Of course it is… and a very revealing one at that.

  68. Chip December 28th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    DaSaint -

    I think you’re being kind saying that Bard and Robertson is a wash.

    Bard’s ERA was sub 2 and his WHIP was 1. He struck out 76 in 73 IP

    Robertson’s ERA was nearly 4 and his WHIP was 1.5

  69. YankeesNmore December 28th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    QUOTE:
    “Bard’s ERA was sub 2 and his WHIP was 1. He struck out 76 in 73 IP

    Robertson’s ERA was nearly 4 and his WHIP was 1.5″
    ———————————————————————————————————-
    Doesn’t get more “even” than that.

    lmfao!

  70. cs in la December 28th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Honestly, who care about the Red Sox? This kind of banter is what they do.

    Lets play the games, then talk.

  71. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    As Rich says, boston has lots of question marks:

    Who will catch on a daily basis?
    How quickly will Gonzalez readjust to AL pitching?
    Will Pedroia be back to his normal self healthwise?
    Who’s the SS?
    Will Crawford be hampered in LF?
    Will Ellisbury improve this season?
    Will Drew continue to decline?
    Will Ortiz be able to maintain his prowess at DH?
    Which Lackey will show up?
    Which Dice-K will show up?
    Will Wakefield be forced to spend much time in the rotation?
    How will Pappelbum do considering he’s probably in his last year with the team?
    Will Bard improve or regress?
    Which Jenks?
    Will Wheeler do well?
    How will Doubront do?

    Just a few questions…

  72. MTU December 28th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Mell-

    Does Beckett have to “revert” to the “mean”.

    I thought he was born that way.

    ;)

  73. blake December 28th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Mell,
    Yea all I meant is that I think Lackey is a decent 4 in the AL east at this point….I just wasn’t all that impressed with him stuffwise last year. He may bounce back and have a little better year (somewhere between his 1st and 2nd halfs) but id be surprised if he was much different.

    Trader,
    He still has a new league, new weather, new atmosphere, new stadiums to adjust to. He’ll be fine because he’s a great hitter but Tex has been better to this point in their careers if you look at the numbers so im just not giving that nod to Boston.

  74. Mell December 28th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    MTU:

    I hear Beckett likes puppies. :)

  75. MTU December 28th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Mell-

    Let him go an get a pair then.

    “hush puppies”.

    Most dogs like killing vermin.

    ;)

  76. MaineYankee December 28th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Beckett has had one dominant season in Boston, 07.

    Since then he has had an injury that has effected his season each year.

    You can compare teams by position but the one thing you can’t rate is how the pieces fit together.

    When George tried to get all the best in the 80′s in didn’t work.

    Those teams in the 90′s didn’t nessarily have the best players but they had players that fit well together.

    The season will tell us how the pieces fit for each team.

  77. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    Chip/nMore,

    In 2009, Robertson SO 63 in 43.2 IP and had a 3.30 ERA.
    In 2009, Bard SO 63 in 49.1 IP and had a 3.65 ERA.

    Last season Robertson regressed and Bard improved, but it shows me that they are comparable players. Robertson can improve just as Bard did, and Bard can regress just as Robertson did.

    Yes, a wash, IMO.

  78. Frankg December 28th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    The Red Sox have better pitching and if they stay healthy and with their additions this year, they should be even with or better than the Yankees. Last year with all their injuries they were surprisingly close to the Yanks at year end. They are the bigger threat than the Rays who have lost too many players, especially relief pitchers, over the winter.

  79. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Maine is absolutely right about comparing pieces. Teams win, not individuals. Just look at last year’s WS Champs.

    Time will tell.

  80. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    # DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    As Rich says, boston has lots of question marks:

    Who will catch on a daily basis?
    How quickly will Gonzalez readjust to AL pitching?
    Will Pedroia be back to his normal self healthwise?
    Who’s the SS?
    Will Crawford be hampered in LF?
    Will Ellisbury improve this season?
    Will Drew continue to decline?
    Will Ortiz be able to maintain his prowess at DH?
    Which Lackey will show up?
    Which Dice-K will show up?
    Will Wakefield be forced to spend much time in the rotation?
    How will Pappelbum do considering he’s probably in his last year with the team?
    Will Bard improve or regress?
    Which Jenks?
    Will Wheeler do well?
    How will Doubront do?

    Just a few questions…
    ———————————————

    and the Yankees don’t come on lets be real here

  81. Mell December 28th, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    “Last season Robertson regressed and Bard improved, but it shows me that they are comparable players. Robertson can improve just as Bard did, and Bard can regress just as Robertson did”

    DaSaint:

    You in sales?

  82. MaineYankee December 28th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    The reason the RS were able to stay close to the Yankees last year was because the Yankees had their share of injuries that kept them from pulling away.

    If not for the injuries the Yankees had they would have won the division going away.

    The Yankees injuries didn’t compare to the RS but they did have a significant effect on the line-up.

  83. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    you can have question about almost every Yankee player…just saying

  84. Crawdaddy December 28th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    If you have an XM radio account, you can also listen it to the Baseball channel online and even on your smart phone.

  85. MaineYankee December 28th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
    Maine is absolutely right about comparing pieces. Teams win, not individuals. Just look at last year’s WS Champs.

    Time will tell.

    —————————————————————-

    I will save this quote so I can show it to randy when we disagree. :lol:

  86. MTU December 28th, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    maine-

    When do you and Randy EVER disagree ?

    :)

    P.S. I think Randy was correct when he said he could throw a tomato
    faster than you can run.

  87. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Mell December 28th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
    “Last season Robertson regressed and Bard improved, but it shows me that they are comparable players. Robertson can improve just as Bard did, and Bard can regress just as Robertson did”

    DaSaint:

    You in sales?
    —————————————
    No Mell, but close.

    I take nothing – a blank sheet – and turn it into ideas then build those ideas into realities.

    Piece, by piece.

  88. MaineYankee December 28th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    MTU

    P.S. I think Randy was correct when he said he could throw a tomato
    faster than you can run

    ————————————————————————

    But as the saying goes.

    He can’t hit the broad side of a barn.

  89. MTU December 28th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    DaSaint-

    “Oragami” ?

    :)

  90. 28 RINGS December 28th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    “If I had a nickel for every “if” …..”

    Seems to be the story of our season from an optimistic angle – if 20 things go right, we could be good.

  91. MTU December 28th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    Maine-

    If you guys really want to throw tomatoes at each other go to Spain.

    There’s a place over there where they have a festival where everyone in the whole town throws tomatoes at each other all day.

    Men, Women, and children.

    Randy could work on his technique and you could get even.

  92. Yank 97 December 28th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    SI_JonHeyman
    i didnt have answer on wbz-fm a few mins ago. but yes, #redsox are still looking at fuentes. pen w/ him, bard, jenks & pap would be superb

  93. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Thanks MTU. :-)

  94. MTU December 28th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    Got to run.

    Later.

    :)

  95. West Coast Yankee Fan December 28th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Well what do you know. Theo Epstein is still not satisfied and is working to improve his team even more.

  96. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    I wish Cash could add both Rauch and Fuentes.
    But please add one of them.

  97. pat December 28th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Much closer between Yanks and Sox than many people would think.

    I would give credit for this if I could remember where I read this last week…….for all the talk about the aging left side of the Yankee infield, in the past 2 years, Alex has played more games than Youkilis- 261 games vs. 238 games- and Youkilis has never played more than 145 games in a season once.

    Who is the Sox back-up 3rd baseman? Lowrie?

  98. Mell December 28th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    “Who is the Sox back-up 3rd baseman? Lowrie?”

    Yeah. Wouldn’t shock me if they occasionally DH’d Youkilis against decent LHP’s and have Lowrie (.944 OPS vs. LHP’s in a small 200 PA sample) play 3rd.

  99. pat December 28th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    “Youkilis has never played more than 145 games in a season once.”

    EDIT:

    Youkilis has ***ONLY*** played more than 145 games in a season once.

  100. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Yankee bullpen could be:

    A: Mariano, Rauch, Fuentes, Robertson, Joba, Logan, Feliciano
    or
    B: Mariano, Rauch/Fuentes, Robertson, Joba, Logan, Feliciano, Brackman
    or
    C: Mariano, Soriano, Robertson, Joba, Logan, Feliciano, Brackman
    or
    D: Mariano, Prior, Robertson, Joba, Logan, Feliciano, Brackman

  101. Roger December 28th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Chances Yu Darvish will be a yankee next season(2012)?

  102. Yank 97 December 28th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    That’s the problem with comparing these 2 teams – people will believe what they want to believe. Burnett will improve significantly under Rothschild, yet Beckett won’t improve at all. Lackey won’t revert back to his career numbers (even though he did in the 2nd half, 3.97 ERA/1.21 WHIP), yet Nova/Noesi/Phelps will outperform him. Based on what? And these same conversations are taking place on SOSH and such, except in reverse.

    And no one can evaluate bullpens because they are so up and down. Sox are better on paper, but again, that means nothing. We thought we had a strong pen last year out of ST, yet it was very unreliable until Wood came aboard in August.

    Lineups… we need to see how guys like Jeter, Posada, ARod, Tex, Granderson (for a full season), Martin, etc. bounce back considering they all had below-average years for their standards. I would lean Sox, especially 1-4, but there is a lot of variance.

  103. Jerzz December 28th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    DaSaint,

    If A, B, or C becomes our opening-day pen, I think everyone will be happy. Any of those would be very strong pens that could cover up for some SP issues.

    D is far less desirable. Prior? Who has pitched in 1 minor league game in 5 years?

  104. randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    “If you guys really want to throw tomatoes at each other go to Spain.”

    mtu-

    good idea.

    we could take gb7 and guarantee to create an international incident.

  105. 4 NYY December 28th, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

  106. randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    “The RS have almost as many question marks as the Yankees, if not more.”

    rich in nj-

    i totally agree with that.

    who would you rather have right now- josh beckett for the next four years at 68 million or nova at minimum?

    i’d take nova in a heartbeat.

    not because he’s better, but because if he doesn’t work out , he can be released and replaced.

    how do you release 68 million dollars.

    i’m pretty sure theo would let beckett be a free agent right now if beckett would go for it to get rid of that contract.

  107. Mell December 28th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    “i’m pretty sure theo would let beckett be a free agent right now if beckett would go for it to get rid of that contract.”

    You don’t think Cashman would be driving Burnett to the airport given the same set of circumstances???

  108. blake December 28th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Two years removed from hip surgery and with reports he’s trying to drop weight and increase agility this winter…..Arod could be “back” in a big way next year.

  109. randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    “Say what you want about Beckett, Lackey, and Dice K, but I would take any of the three in our rotation right now in a heartbeat if they were available.”

    wave your hat-

    you’d pay burnett 68 million for the next four years?

    why?

    i wouldn’t touch him at that rate.

    livan is better than him at this point and you can get him for about a million or so.

  110. West Coast Yankee Fan December 28th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    A-Rod is 36 this season and we have him until he’s 42. A player’s prime is generally said to be 27-31 give or take. A-Rod will never hit 40 home runs again IMO. Soon, it is likely he will struggle to hit 30. Hope I am wrong.

  111. Chip December 28th, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    Mell December 28th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
    “i’m pretty sure theo would let beckett be a free agent right now if beckett would go for it to get rid of that contract.”

    You don’t think Cashman would be driving Burnett to the airport given the same set of circumstances???

    ———————–

    I don’t.

    If the Red Sox were able to undo Beckett’s contract they still have 3 really good starters (Lester, Bucholtz, Lackey) if the Yankees could undo AJ’s they only have Hughes and CC.

  112. pat December 28th, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    “Two years removed from hip surgery and with reports he?s trying to drop weight and increase agility this winter?..Arod could be ?back? in a big way next year.”

    and it’s an odd number year. :wink:

  113. Chip December 28th, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    Bottom line – if Andy doesn’t return the person who will be most critical to whether the Yankees are a playoff team or not is AJ Burnett.

  114. theoldCrow December 28th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    IMO Yanks and Boston are even line-up wise. Boston neglected to address their catching, instead opting to make a big push for TV ratings signing Crawford. that move might hurt them moving forward. The rotation is hands down in favor of Boston, spending $9M on middle relief helps. Soriano’s past injury record should be of some concern although he’s been good the last two seasons. I don’t see how NY will upgrade the rotation without being robbed, I’m hoping Soriano takes a one yr deal similar to what Beltre did, but for an already 31 YR closer maybe that’s wishful thinking. I think he’s the best available option left, and I agree lets build from the back and make the game a 6 inning affair. We don’t want to be too far behind Boston by the deadline when a viable top of the rotation pitcher might be available. Then again maybe Boston’s All Star line-Up won’t gel right away

  115. retire51 December 28th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Jeter Ellsbury
    Granderson Pedroia
    Tex Agon
    Arod Youk
    Cano Crawford
    Swisher Ortiz
    Posada Drew
    Martin Salty / Tek
    Gardner Scutaro / Lowrie

  116. blake December 28th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    I think Arod tops 40 homers at least 2 more times. A full healthy season and he’ll do it next year.

  117. Patrick December 28th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Right now if I’m being objective, Boston has a better team. Luckily, the season doesn’t start on December 28th.

    One thing to keep in mind, you have to look at the entire organization to decide which team will be better during the season. I think the Yankees have more readily available help in the minors than Boston. Projection systems have a hard time accounting for this variable but if you just look at what players will be starting the season in Scranton (and even Trenton) it’s obvious that the Yankees have a some good players on the way which should help for the 2011 season.

  118. theoldCrow December 28th, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, Lackey, Dice K, Albers, Doubront Jenks, Wheeler, Bard, Papelbon is better then Sabathia, Hughes, Burnett, Nova, Mitre, Joba, D-Rob, Logan, Feliciano, Mo. Brackman has no ML experience. Not even close at this point in time.

  119. Chip December 28th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    Patrick-

    Agreed. No one has ever won or lost a season before January 1st.

    I would say the lineups are a push, Boston has the better pen and better rotation – but injuries, trades, off years, career years, can change all of that in a flash.

    On the other hand, while Boston has taken a step forward I think it’s clear that Tampa has taken a mighty step back and so again – the Yankees are still one of the top two teams in the AL East and probably in the AL overall.

  120. Joe S formerly of Brooklyn December 28th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    You are Brian Cashman.

    You took your shot at Lee. He was, you thought, the only player out there who, upon donning the uniform, could significantly increase the team’s fortune all the way to Sept. 30 and beyond.

    But Lee turned you down.

    You looked around and the situation was exactly the same as it was before you went after Lee with all of the money you could muster. Namely: Not much else was available that was realistic.

    So you — sorta kinda — fixed on 2011 as a year in which the NYYs compete until about Sept. 4th.

    Sure, you think there are good pitchers available. And there might be a few more, in a few weeks. But there did not appear to be anyone who was a sure-thing . . . at least, not at the prices you are being asked to pay.

    You could pull the trigger — and add another AJ Burnett to the starting rotation. And give up a couple of guys that comes back to haunt you, in 2011 or 2012. Heck, you’re still sweating over possible great careers by Ian Kennedy and Austin Jackson.

    - – - – -

    So, as Brian Cashman, you look around and say: I can get X and Y and Z. But I’m probably STILL gonna finish 3rd — or (at best) — 2nd-without-the-wild-card, in 2011.

    AND: To get XYZ, it’s going to cost us ALL the guys in my organization that might actually have some talent. We’ll be in the same (or worse) situation a year from now, except all that young talent will be maturing in someone else’s organization.

    Maybe I should just sit tight and let some of these fellows try to produce. Unless finishing 2nd/3rd gets me fired, it’s a win-win situation for me, personally — and for my team.

    If some of the young pitchers do well, we win. We get to the playoffs.

    If they don’t, I can make a much better case to the Mssrs. Steinbrenner during this season that we have to re-invest some of the $$$, the way their father did . . . in better players in the 2011-12 off-season.

    - – - – -

    Cashman apparently said something in public about having 8 pitchers from AA on up that could compete. Of course, what he says to the media and what happens can be mutually exclusive.

    BUT: Perhaps he thinks Girardi and the new pitching coach can do something with some of those fellas and a bunch of scotchtape. It’s not a sure thing; it’s close to a hail-mary pass; but it could happen.

    Who knows? Maybe two of The Killer Bs can be patched together to pitch 220 innings over a season. Maybe Nova’s problem going deeper into games can be solved by turning him into 2011′s Aceves, and getting 3 innings out of him twice a week.

    ETC.

    If this analysis is correct, look for the NYYs to do not very much (not much that the folks on this board are gonna like) before Opening Day.

  121. randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    “You don’t think Cashman would be driving Burnett to the airport given the same set of circumstances???”

    i think cashman would pull burnett in a rickshaw to whoever would take him to get out of that contract.

    but beckett has an even worse contract.

    the perception is the yankees are in trouble and the red sox are rock solid is crazy.

    both have real plusses and real problems.

    i’m thinking that because the red sox are so overrated they are going to have undue pressure on them.

    especially carl crawford. if he slumps he’s going to really hear it up there in boston. he’s never player under that kind of fan pressure before. i have business neighbors on both sides who are die hard red sox fans who wouldn’t vote for obama because of race. there are way more fans like that in boston than you’d think.

    you think those knuckleheads are going to be carl crawford fans if any thing goes wrong?

    crawford may be in for a surprise if he doesn’t play really well.

  122. 108 stitches December 28th, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Boston is still weak up the middle pending how Pedroia and Ellsbury return from injuries.

    Lester is the strong point of the starting rotation and the only lefthander.

    Buchholz like Hughes, has to show another another year before being labeled as consistent.

    Beckett, Lackey, and Matsuzaka have seen their best years.

    Any injuries to 1-5 starters means they need to search outside the organization for help with none in the farm system to provide any.

    Crawford and Gonzalez have to do no worse than equal the numbers put up by Beltre and Martinez last season.

  123. Mell December 28th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    “i think cashman would pull burnett in a rickshaw to whoever would take him to get out of that contract.

    but beckett has an even worse contract”

    Actually it’s about the same contract, only Beckett was younger when his was signed his.

    “the perception is the yankees are in trouble and the red sox are rock solid is crazy.

    both have real plusses and real problems.”

    Couldn’t agree more.

    “i have business neighbors on both sides who are die hard red sox fans who wouldn’t vote for obama because of race. there are way more fans like that in boston than you’d think”

    Your neighbors are idiots. And there are way more fans like that EVERYWHERE than you’d think.

  124. Mell December 28th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    ….his was signed his????

    Cripes! Talk about the Department of Redundancy Department.

  125. Chip December 28th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    i’m thinking that because the red sox are so overrated they are going to have undue pressure on them.

    especially carl crawford. if he slumps he’s going to really hear it up there in boston. he’s never player under that kind of fan pressure before. i have business neighbors on both sides who are die hard red sox fans who wouldn’t vote for obama because of race. there are way more fans like that in boston than you’d think.
    ————————————–

    Randy,

    1. You don’t think there are racist Yankee fans?
    2. If Crawford gets booed it will be for performance, not race – Sox fans have booed plenty of white players through the years, including Papelbon last year.
    3. I don’t think that racist fans have anything to do with how a player performs.

  126. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    # randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    i have a simple question.

    if the yankees added beckett to the rotation would he help it or hurt it?

    to me that tells where the red sox rotation is.

    ——————————————————–

    I assume you got plenty of responses arguing that beckett stinks and is an injury risk, etc, etc….and i assume, if you looked back, you would find those same folks counting on Burnett to be a solid #3 starter for the Yanks next year.

    In my opinion, one spot where the two teams are very difficult to reasonably compare right now is in the starting rotations. Note I am saying right now. Note I am not saying we should close the book on the 2011 Yankee season. However, I firmly believe on December 28, the Boston rotation is clearly better than that of the yankees.

    I believe it is fair to wash Lester/Bucholz vs CC/Hughes…….but the other 90+ starts from the 3-5 starters are heavily in favor of Boston and anyone trying to convince themselves otherwise is doing themselves a disservice.

    If you want to say Beckett stinks, then you have to say burnett does as well.
    If you want to say lackey cant hack the AL east, then by no means can you say Mitre or Nova can.
    And if you want to say Dice K is a crapshoot….then by absolutely no means can you call Nova and or Mitre anything more.

    Candidly, I would take each of bostons 3-5 starters ahead of each of our 3-5 starters..

  127. Chip December 28th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Trade suggestion:

    Houston gets: Eduardo Nunez, Austin Romine, Adam Warren

    NYY get: Brett Myers, Jeff Keppinger

  128. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    108 stitches December 28th, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Any injuries to 1-5 starters means they need to search outside the organization for help with none in the farm system to provide any.

    —————————————————

    And what are the Yankees doing right now? We dont even have injuries to speak of. You are basically counting on Boston getting pitching staff injuries to put them in the predicament the Yankees are currently in.

  129. 108 stitches December 28th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    And what are the Yankees doing right now? We dont even have injuries to speak of. You are basically counting on Boston getting pitching staff injuries to put them in the predicament the Yankees are currently in.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Boston has no trading chips to use at the 7/31 trading deadline – the Yankees do. No team ever goes through a season injury-free. Boston will require nearly 100% good health with all their starters.
    Cashman has time to fix the starting rotation before the end of March.

  130. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    # blake December 28th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    I think Arod tops 40 homers at least 2 more times. A full healthy season and he’ll do it next year.
    ——————————————————————–

    the 40 hr years are done along with the 20 SB’S & BA of .300…..just being real

  131. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    the 40 hr years are done along with the 20 SB’S & BA of .300…..just being real

    A-rod was on 40 HR paces each of the past 2 seasons.

  132. BobbyMurcer December 28th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    On paper dudes…The Red Sox are our daddies…

  133. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    # Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    the 40 hr years are done along with the 20 SB’S & BA of .300…..just being real

    A-rod was on 40 HR paces each of the past 2 seasons.
    ———————————————————
    and what happen

  134. West Coast Yankee Fan December 28th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    the 40 hr years are done along with the 20 SB’S & BA of .300…..just being real

    A-rod was on 40 HR paces each of the past 2 seasons.

    **************

    That’s funny. Maybe there should be a new award called the “On Pace” award.

  135. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    and what happen

    Its possible that A-rod will never play more than 140 games again in a single season, but I think its silly to say he will never hit 40 HRs when he’d only need to stay healthy to do it. If he moves to DH in the future it should improve his health considerably.

  136. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    RT @SI_JonHeyman: red sox like fuentes. others w/some interest: tor, tb, colo, sea, minn, pitt, phil, milw, nyy & nym

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Heyman’s on top of everything. He’s got the teams interested in Brian Fuentes down to only 11 teams. He knows everything.

  137. Mell December 28th, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    “the 40 hr years are done along with the 20 SB’S & BA of .300…..just being real”

    20 SB’s are for sure. 40 homers? Can’t rule that out at all.

  138. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    not counting his first year AROD averages 38 hrs a year…..hasn’t done 40 in 3 years so at age 36 I don’t think you’ll see 40 again ..as you stated his games played per year have dropped off

  139. West Coast Yankee Fan December 28th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Maybe it’s true GB7. That makes 19 teams who are not interested. But why let another opportunity to gratuitously attack a successful baseball journalist go by.

  140. blake December 28th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    If Arod plays 145 games next year without injury then he’ll hit 40. I truly believe he has another MVP type season (or 2) in him.

  141. Noreaster December 28th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    A couple of thoughts:
    1) The Sox are, on paper, better than the Yankees right now.
    2) The Sox defense wasn’t very good last year and it will be worse this year with Youk at 3B and Ellsberry in CF. The catching position didn’t get any better either.
    3) The Yankees are in position to make moves during the season where the Sox are not.
    4) the Sox lost a lot of offense with Beltre and Victor. But yes, they will be better if Pedroia and Youk are healthy, just not that much better.
    5) There is no way Laptop has the same year he had last year with the number of people he puts on base. It was a very lucky year for him.

  142. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    # GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    RT @SI_JonHeyman: red sox like fuentes. others w/some interest: tor, tb, colo, sea, minn, pitt, phil, milw, nyy & nym

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Heyman’s on top of everything. He’s got the teams interested in Brian Fuentes down to only 11 teams. He knows everything.
    —————————————————
    aren’t the good relievers that are left going to cost a draft pick if signed

  143. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Noreaster December 28th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    the Sox lost a lot of offense with Beltre and Victor. But yes, they will be better if Pedroia and Youk are healthy, just not that much better.

    ————————————-
    they picked up a lot of offense with Youk Pedoria Ellsbury AG Crawford

  144. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    not counting his first year AROD averages 38 hrs a year…..hasn’t done 40 in 3 years so at age 36 I don’t think you’ll see 40 again ..as you stated his games played per year have dropped off

    From when he became a full time player to now he averages 44 HRs a year, obviously he has not hit 40 in the past 3 years. He was on the DL with a lat issue in 2008, came back from surgery in 09, and had the calf strain in 2010. It is very reasonable to think he is going to be more injury prone going forward. At the same time he has not shown a decreased ability to mash taters. He can still hit bombs. If he gets enough plate appearances he can hit 40 HRs. Now you might say he won’t play more than 130 games ever again, but I think he has a full season in him. And if he gets a full season I think he’ll hit 40.

  145. Mell December 28th, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    “3) The Yankees are in position to make moves during the season where the Sox are not.”

    Depends on the move. Can they get Felix Hernandez or someone of that ilk? No chance. Do they have what the Yankees parted with to get the likes of Berkman and Kerry Wood? Sure. Almost every team does.

  146. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    imagine if Cash didn’t have the Jeter and Mo signings how bad would this off season be

  147. Noreaster December 28th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    joeman:
    they picked up a lot of offense with Youk Pedoria Ellsbury AG Crawford
    ——————————————————————————–
    AG doesn’t offset the type of year Beltre had and Crawford offsets Victor. So where does this leave us? 40 or so games out of Youk and 75 out of Pedoria. Given that the players they had backing up gave, what, 60% of what Youk and Pedoria gave? It’s not a huge pickup over last year. Are they better off, yes, but my point was/is that their offense is not that much better off. Add in the fact that they are very left handed now and they made their defense worse…

    At 6th – Papi can be pitched to
    At 7th – JD Drew, hasn’t had over 70RBI with the Sox (in a hitter friendly park)
    At 8th – Salty/Tek…please…
    9th … well you get the idea.
    That’s a pretty weak end of the lineup.

  148. Wave Your Hat December 28th, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    “At the same time he has not shown a decreased ability to mash taters.”

    For what it’s worth, ARod’s HR% trend from 2007 on is 7.6% – 5.9% – 5.6% – 5.0%. Granted 2007 was close to a career high for ARod, but going into 2007 ARod’s career HR% was 6.1%, higher than his last three years.

  149. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    # Noreaster December 28th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    joeman:
    they picked up a lot of offense with Youk Pedoria Ellsbury AG Crawford
    ——————————————————————————–
    AG doesn’t offset the type of year Beltre had and Crawford offsets Victor. So where does this leave us? 40 or so games out of Youk and 75 out of Pedoria. Given that the players they had backing up gave, what, 60% of what Youk and Pedoria gave? It’s not a huge pickup over last year. Are they better off, yes, but my point was/is that their offense is not that much better off. Add in the fact that they are very left handed now and they made their defense worse…

    At 6th – Papi can be pitched to
    At 7th – JD Drew, hasn’t had over 70RBI with the Sox (in a hitter friendly park)
    At 8th – Salty/Tek…please…
    9th … well you get the idea.
    That’s a pretty weak end of the lineup.
    ————————————-
    don’t forget Ellsbury..played 18 games in 10…..a .290 hitter and will steal 60 + bases

  150. Noreaster December 28th, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Mell:
    “Depends on the move. Can they get Felix Hernandez or someone of that ilk? No chance. Do they have what the Yankees parted with to get the likes of Berkman and Kerry Wood? Sure. Almost every team does.”
    ——————————————
    I don’t agree. The Yankees have 3 very good catching prospects, not to mention one of them is a top 5 rated prospect who was only 20 in AAA last year. Plus their pitching in the minors is highly rated by ESPN, who almost never gives them credit. We all know that all these prospects won’t pan out, but the point is they have the chips they need to make top end deals this offseason PLUS pleanty of salary space.

  151. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Adrian Gonzalez is gonna be good. No getting around that, but he grounds into a lot of double plays, has a weakness vs left handed pitching, strikes out as most sluggers of his caliber do, and a lot of his on base came from IBB playing on a weak padres team.

    He was IBB’d 35 times last year.

  152. BoJo December 28th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    “If he gets enough plate appearances he can hit 40 HRs. ”
    ++++++++++++++++++
    “Anywhere is within walking distance if you have enough time.”–Steven Wright.

    The wise guy would say “Give ARod 2000 ABs, and I’m sure he can hit 40 homers.”

    The question is whether he will get those ABs from this point forward…the BIG IF.

    I think Girardi will find a way to get him more rest and also time at DH (he is better than Posada of course)…so he might get those ABs. He also figures to turn around his performance against LHP. Why? Because he is a really smart player with a great batting coach–between them, they’ll figure it out.

    Bottom line–I like ARod’s chances at hitting 40 homers more than Gonzo’s.

  153. clownthrowindown December 28th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Cashman and Steinbrenner are doing what Carlo said Arte Moreno does – put out a team that is good and competitive but not good enough to win it all. And they are doing it deliberately to drive their payroll down and build a new foundation. They won’t call it a bridge period because that’s bad PR. And its not like they won’t be any good (especially if Pettitte is back).

    The Yankees saved Vasquez’s salary this year and will save Pettitte’s this year (or next year). Next year Posada comes off the books and the following season they lose Rivera, Feliciano and Martin. Plus Marte and Igawa go away. Maybe Swisher too. And later on Jeter and AJ. All of those players will be replaced by prospects and less expensive players. A DH doesn’t have to make $13M, no closer makes what Mo makes, etc. There are huge payroll savings coming.

    So for two or three years they let the big contracts expire while still managing to be a solid team that will draw fans even though they won’t be champs. The Steinbrenners rake in the profits, Cashman has his job security and the fans have hope every year plus they get to see homegrown talent. And with the tens of millions they save every year they then can surround the homegrown talent with a few appropriate big ticket free agents (and still come in with a lower payroll). And that’s the path to a new dynasty. Or the team being sold.

    But the FO will never say it. They know the fans’ expectations and if the fans stop willingly being gouged, then the plan doesn’t work. The Yankees will be good but not great for the next three or four seasons. Jeter has won his last ring.

  154. Noreaster December 28th, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    Joeman:
    don’t forget Ellsbury..played 18 games in 10…..a .290 hitter and will steal 60 + bases

    ————————————-

    Yes, that’s true, he also has his warts as a lead off hitter (OBP) and a fielder. But you can’t deny that the back of that lineup is pretty iffy. And what happens if Salty gets the ‘Yips’ again?

  155. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    Adrian Gonzalez………..average 35 hrs a year for the last three years in a ball park in which he played half his games is one of the toughest parks to hit in ……now he moves to Fenway….

  156. Wave Your Hat December 28th, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Replacement Level Yankee Blog has its initial CAIRO projections up, and is projecting Red Sox team scoring to increase from 813 last year to 856 in 2011, and projecting Sox runs allowed to decrease from 744 last year to 690 this year.

    At the same time RLYB projects Yankee scoring to decrease from 847 in 2010 to 832 next year, and Yankee runs allowed to increase from 693 last year to 740 in 2011.

    On those projections, the pythagorean won-lost records of the two teams would be 98-64 for the Sox vs 89-73 for the Yanks.

    Early days yet in the projections world, and the Yanks have more left to do to their roster (I hope) than the Sox, but all the same it isn’t what I was hoping to see.

  157. West Coast Yankee Fan December 28th, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Adrian Gonzalez is gonna be good. No getting around that, but he grounds into a lot of double plays, has a weakness vs left handed pitching, strikes out as most sluggers of his caliber do, and a lot of his on base came from IBB playing on a weak padres team. He was IBB’d 35 times last year.

    ************

    You conveniently omitted mentioning that AGon played in Petco Park. It ranked last among all major league ballparks in runs in four of its first six seasons and 28th and 29th the other two seasons.

  158. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    “Anywhere is within walking distance if you have enough time.”–Steven Wright.

    The wise guy would say “Give ARod 2000 ABs, and I’m sure he can hit 40 homers.”

    The question is whether he will get those ABs from this point forward…the BIG IF.

    hey thats my line! I always love to say that. I agree, the question mark for A-rod is not his power, its if he can stay on the field to show it. I think 09 was a different case, because he had surgery and then came back from it and did not miss significant time after. 08 and 2010 he had his leg injuries. He needs to stay healthier.

    Wave: As a yankee his HR rate is 5.9% and 09 and 08 were not out of line with that number. 2011 will be important for A-rod to see what kind of guy we have going into the last 10 years of his contract :)

  159. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    What guys like Ellsbury, Pedroia and Youkilis will add will just about be what the Red Sox lost from the bench, because they are either gone or won’t be playing, unless any of those first 3 hitters get hurt again.

  160. mick December 28th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    clownthrowindown December 28th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Cashman and Steinbrenner are doing what Carlo said Arte Moreno does – put out a team that is good and competitive but not good enough to win it all. And they are doing it deliberately to drive their payroll down and build a new foundation. They won’t call it a bridge period because that’s bad PR. And its not like they won’t be any good (especially if Pettitte is back).
    =============================
    Yes but what if this model does not work meaning the kids don’t come through?
    Sounds like a trip into mediocrity. They risk the chance of being left behind. We are not the TB Rays where they were loaded with draft picks from finishing last all those years.

  161. BoJo December 28th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    hey thats my line! I always love to say that.
    +++++++++++
    I knew I liked you for some reason. Sound baseball mind.

  162. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    You conveniently omitted mentioning that AGon played in Petco Park. It ranked last among all major league ballparks in runs in four of its first six seasons and 28th and 29th the other two seasons.

    Conveniently omitted??? What does the park have to do with his: struggles against lefties, strike outs, double plays, and the amount of walks which were intentional? Please stop your half witted crusade to try and ‘gotcha’ me at every opportunity, its not going well for you.

  163. mick December 28th, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    No matter how the rs hit, if they don’t get pitching they go nowhere.
    Beckett and Lackey are huge question marks as is dice k.

  164. Wave Your Hat December 28th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    jerkface-

    That Yankee HR% for ARod includes two seasons at 5.2%, which other than last year would be his career lows. I think the 6.1% career percentage going into 2007 would be a fairer benchmark of the better-worse dividing line for ARod.

  165. BoJo December 28th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Having watched ARod the last few years, I can see where his HR% is down, but also see where he can recoup his success.

    His injuries have slowed him down for stretches, but when he gets hot and is healthy, he is as good as ever, I’m sure Girardi will manage his health carefully and get him in as many games as possible.

  166. Cashman needs to go December 28th, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Noreaster December 28th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    At 6th – Papi can be pitched to
    At 7th – JD Drew, hasn’t had over 70RBI with the Sox (in a hitter friendly park)
    At 8th – Salty/Tek…please…
    9th … well you get the idea.
    That’s a pretty weak end of the lineup

    *****************

    Noreaster I like your optimism but..

    6th – posada – washed up – an injury waiting to happen (advantage ortiz)
    7th – granderson – hit 230 for 5 out of the 6 months last year – can’t hit lefties – didn’t have 70 rbi last year on a team that scored the most runs (advantage drew)
    8th – martin – may be average or may suck like he has the last 2 years…or may not be able to walk with the injured hip (advantage even or sox if martin can’t play)
    9th – gardner – do you get the decent 1st half player or the invisible 2nd half player? injury prone as well…

    and just for the heck of it..

    1st – jeter 37 year old SS who declined considerably last year both on defense and offense – should bat 9th but his ego won’t allow it

    2nd – swisher – out of place in the 2 hole – very slow on base – prone to strikeout alot which is a rally killer

    3rd – teixeira – really bad 3 out of the 6 months – teams have figured out how to pitch to him – another sloth on the bases

    4th – rodriguez – have you seen his stats vs lefties? getting older and will need alot of DH time – further weakening an already lite lineup for 2011

    5th – cano – the best player on the team – absolutely no protection from the 6th place hitter – will have to become even more patient since he probably won’t get too much to hit…should be batting 3rd but girardi doesn’t want to hurt tex’s feelings

  167. BoJo December 28th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    I would worry more about Gonzo coming back from a major injury and getting used to a new league than many of you. You all seem to just accept that he will immediately find success–I remain skeptical.

  168. mick December 28th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    joeman December 28th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    # GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    RT @SI_JonHeyman: red sox like fuentes. others w/some interest: tor, tb, colo, sea, minn, pitt, phil, milw, nyy & nym
    ==========================
    going after fuentes will up our price for sure but the rs need a lefty—no okajima

  169. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    # Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    You conveniently omitted mentioning that AGon played in Petco Park. It ranked last among all major league ballparks in runs in four of its first six seasons and 28th and 29th the other two seasons.

    Conveniently omitted??? What does the park have to do with his: struggles against lefties, strike outs, double plays, and the amount of walks which were intentional? Please stop your half witted crusade to try and ‘gotcha’ me at every opportunity, its not going well for you.
    ———————————————————————————————

    he may have his struggles but he will hit 40 hrs and drive in 120 runs in that ball park in which he will play half his games that is a lot easier to hit in than the one he left

  170. mick December 28th, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    most of his hrs will have to go to left….rf is a shot

  171. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    # mick December 28th, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    most of his hrs will have to go to left….rf is a shot
    ————————————-
    not down the line…..only a shot in RC where it jets out quick

  172. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    he may have his struggles but he will hit 40 hrs and drive in 120 runs in that ball park in which he will play half his games that is a lot easier to hit in than the one he left

    I never said he wasn’t going to be good, but he isn’t Albert Pujols or something. He has weaknesses, he can be pitched to. He generated a lot of on base thanks to being intentionally walked due to being on a bad team. Of course some of those IBBs are going to turn into hits, or even walks, but still.

    I don’t think he is going to be as good as Manny or Ortiz in their primes (1.000+ OPS guys)

  173. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    clownthrowindown December 28th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Cashman and Steinbrenner are doing what Carlo said Arte Moreno does – put out a team that is good and competitive but not good enough to win it all.

    ————————————-

    Good memory….and yes, I did say that about Moreno. I also agree that the team is currently being built to compete and keep fan interest high, but not sure they are willing to go the extra mile to establish a real on paper wrecking ball. That said, tough to evaluate right now given the limited options available to them to prove they would do so. Will be telling to see how these next few weeks evolve because right now, with the staff as it is, if andy doesnt return, they arent in arte moreno territory, they are a step behind.

  174. mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    I see a New Year’s Eve signing for Andy.
    Maybe New Years Day.

  175. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    # mick December 28th, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    most of his hrs will have to go to left….rf is a shot
    ———————————-
    had to go look…if he keeps the ball away from deep RC which is 420……RFL is 302…..RC is 380 which are both shorter than YS

  176. Noreaster December 28th, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    Cashman needs to go:

    Ok, lets look at this.

    6th Posada – 357 OBP in a down year last year. I think we can expect a pop in his stats with his not catching. Plus, he is ‘backed up’ with a potential monster bat in AAA.
    7th Granderson – OK, we’ll see how well he does with his new approach. He is a number 7 hitter with the potential to hit 35HR.
    8th Martin – Another OBP machine in the 8th spot. Not to mention GG defense.
    9th Gardner – Another OBP machine coming off an injury. Not to mention GG type defense in LF/CF.

  177. mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    not down the line…..only a shot in RC where it jets out quick
    ============
    how many balls are hit right down the line? not many at all
    more balls are hit into the pen then in the rf stands, but not many there either
    his best bet would be dead center

  178. West Coast Yankee Fan December 28th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Face in your dreams. The park in which a hitter plays has everything to do with a hitter’s negatives. Pitchers have different game plans in Petco and a hitter will often compensate for a ballpark’s dimension’s often to his detriment.

  179. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    It must be a miserable way to live for you four whining piss bags to go through life only seeing black. Please put yourselves out of your misery. Plenty of trees and rope is cheap.

  180. Cashman needs to go December 28th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    this is how bad this offseason – and the outlook for the 2011 season has been for alot of yankee fans..

    for the past 2 years everytime brian fuentes came in to pitch against the yankees i would be be overjoyed knowing that his weak stuff would get the bleep hit out of it….now i am hoping and praying that the yankees sign him to be the EIG…..so so sad…..thanks cashman for ruining my 2011 summer…

  181. Noreaster December 28th, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    joeman:

    Right field in fenway is very large. 302 drops almost straight back to 380. It’s just a pole, not a porch.

  182. mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Other than Lee, Crawford and Agon , what big names were out there. this was a weak FA year.
    Lee said no, we have a cheap version of crawford and tex at 1st….

  183. Cashman needs to go December 28th, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    noreaster – like i said i like your optimism…i tend to look at things more realistically – there are no right or wrongs here just different POV’s…

  184. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Lefties who have trouble handling lefties will have trouble handling lefties no matter the park, and A-gon GIDP 20+ times 3 out of the last 5 years. Switching parks isn’t going to change the fact he has no speed and teams can play a shift on him.

  185. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    BS. Your “POV” is negative on everything. The only people you agree with are the other “wizards” like you.

  186. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    # GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    It must be a miserable way to live for you four whining piss bags to go through life only seeing black. Please put yourselves out of your misery. Plenty of trees and rope is cheap.
    ——————————————————————
    isn’t that what you are doing

  187. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    Lefties hit .128 .222 .149 .371 off of Fuentes last year. As long as Girardi doesn’t leave him in vs A-rod I think we’d be fine. I don’t like Fuentes personally though.

  188. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    GB – do you have tourettes? who are you even talking to in your rants?

    answer me honestly, is this you in the videos?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wcKpoAQKj4

  189. mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    do the rs even have a lefty in the pen?

  190. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    # Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    GB – do you have tourettes? who are you even talking to in your rants?

    answer me honestly, is this you in the videos?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wcKpoAQKj4
    ———————————————–
    I’ll answer that…YES …but that was 20 years ago

  191. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    Doubrant is their lefty……big question mark……but teams have gotten by without great lefties in the pen before so tough to say that lack of a proven lefty will be a huge issue.

  192. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    # mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    do the rs even have a lefty in the pen?
    ————————————-
    good question

  193. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    William Safire had a term for you four idiots….”The Nattering Nabobs Of Negativity”. It firs you perfectly.

  194. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    “fits”

  195. mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    gb

    if not for idiots where would this blog be?

  196. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    the need is for the Yankees to have a lefty or two for the RS than it would for them to have one against the Yankees because of the sw-h

  197. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    In a lot better shape than it is now with them.

  198. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    # GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    William Safire had a term for you four idiots….”The Nattering Nabobs Of Negativity”. It firs you perfectly.
    —————————-
    # mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    gb

    if not for idiots where would this blog be?
    ———————————————————–

    it would belong to the circle jerks

  199. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    the other two will show very soon

  200. mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    We’re all Bozos on this Bus

  201. West Coast Yankee Fan December 28th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    It must be a miserable way to live for you four whining piss bags to go through life only seeing black. Please put yourselves out of your misery. Plenty of trees and rope is cheap.

    *************

    You realize that you are talking about a baseball blog don’t you?

  202. mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    # joeman December 28th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    the other two will show very soon
    ========================
    just 2?

  203. Cashman needs to go December 28th, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    i always find it amusing when the raving lunatic in the corner (that everyone ignores but he’s too dumb to see it) is calling everybody crazy…

  204. mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    In a lot better shape than it is now with them.
    ——————————————–
    Actually it would be empty right now ….maybe you should play along a little :)

  205. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    # mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    gb

    if not for idiots where would this blog be?
    —————————-

    It would have a rose colored border, that’s for sure.

    A place where Greg Golson is a luxury as a 4th outfielder
    A place where Nova and Mitre for the back end of a sterling rotation
    A place where no matter what the Red Sox do, they do not improve
    A place where assuming injuries to other teams but not our own makes us stack up on paper and having that belief be applauded by peers
    A place where not only are the muppets a topic of conversation, but half the regular posters are in fact muppets

    “lohud definition of idiot” = anyone who questions anything about the team or voices concern that things aren’t as flowery as some claim they are

  206. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    # mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:32 pm

    # joeman December 28th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    the other two will show very soon
    ========================
    just 2?
    —————————————
    there’s 3 of them and they know who they are

  207. mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    it would belong to the circle jerks
    =======================
    joeman

    i caught hell the other day from big al for asking you who were the charter members of this group

  208. randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    i’m so bored i went to fangraphs to look at projections.

    how can you take them seriously when joba has a projected 1.6 games WAR and rivera has a projected 2.1 WAR ?

    marino is worth only a half a game better than joba ?

    yeah right.

  209. mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    It would have a rose colored border, that’s for sure.

    A place where Greg Golson is a luxury as a 4th outfielder
    A place where Nova and Mitre for the back end of a sterling rotation
    A place where no matter what the Red Sox do, they do not improve
    A place where assuming injuries to other teams but not our own makes us stack up on paper and having that belief be applauded by peers
    A place where not only are the muppets a topic of conversation, but half the regular posters are in fact muppets
    ====================
    BTW where are erica and trisha?

  210. BX33 December 28th, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    A-Gon hit 40+ HRs annually in Petco and the huge NL West parks (San Fran, Dodgers). He will hit 50 in Fenway and having his road games at NYS, Camden Yards, Rogers Centre, etc.

    Crawford will also benefit greatly from the pesky poll.

    While Fenway is a dream for a RH hitter who abuses the monster (a la Beltre/Lowell), Crawfod/Gonzalez have the skillsets/swing to mash in Fenway, much more so for Gonzo than Crawford.

  211. West Coast Yankee Fan December 28th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    Carlo – you forgot this one sir:

    A place where anyone that doesn’t embrace the baseball wisdom espoused by the self appointed elite are labeled trolls.

  212. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    # mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    it would belong to the circle jerks
    =======================
    joeman

    i caught hell the other day from big al for asking you who were the charter members of this group
    ——————————
    I saw that

  213. mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    there’s 3 of them and they know who they are
    ================================
    what qualifications are needed to get into this club?

  214. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    # West Coast Yankee Fan December 28th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    Carlo – you forgot this one sir:

    A place where anyone that doesn’t embrace the baseball wisdom espoused by the self appointed elite are labeled trolls.
    —————————–
    isn’t that the truth ….post of the day !!!!!!!!

  215. mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    I saw that
    ==========
    why didn’t you come to my defense?
    he told me to have a nice day…

  216. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    A-Gon hit 40+ HRs annually in Petco and the huge NL West parks (San Fran, Dodgers). He will hit 50 in Fenway and having his road games at NYS, Camden Yards, Rogers Centre, etc.

    He hit 40 HRs one time.

  217. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    The blog without “the idiots”

    Poster 1 – hey guys, you see heyman just said the red sox signed cliff lee and soriano
    Poster 2 – heyman is an idiot and the media is biased
    Poster 3 – doesnt matter, cashman will sign francis and we’ll be back ahead of them
    Poster 4 – they still have no bullpen, soriano, papelbon, bard, wheeler, jenks……all those guys could get hurt
    Poster 5 – exactly, and if they do, then robertson and joba will be better than the replacements
    Poster 6 – what they do doesnt matter, between golson and gardner, we have two guys who will steal 120 bases combined……and golson is only a 4th outfielder….can you imagine the talent we have for a player as money as golson to be a 4th outfielder
    Poster 7 – to answer the red sox, cashman should just call up warren and adams…..enough with the training wheels, its time the league felt the wrath of our farm system

  218. blake December 28th, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    Gonzalez has hit 40 homers 1 time. His career average is 32. He’s also hit. 300 1 time. His career average is. 284.

  219. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Crawford will also benefit greatly from the pesky poll.

    While Fenway is a dream for a RH hitter who abuses the monster (a la Beltre/Lowell), Crawfod/Gonzalez have the skillsets/swing to mash in Fenway, much more so for Gonzo than Crawford.

    Crawford isn’t going to tailor his swing to try and hook balls around the pole, though I’d welcome it if he did because it’d kill his skill set. He hits a lot of doubles in fenway in his career, but not a lot of home runs. He doesn’t have the power to go deep regularly in fenway or opposite field.

    Look at his spray charts.

  220. yclept December 28th, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    Cashman Needs to Go –

    Ruin your summer? A bit extreme, no? Baseball should be a part of everyone’s summer – not the reason why your summer is good or bad.

    The team as constructed will at the very least be in contention throughout the summer – there is really no reason to think otherwise. Whether they get there or not, who knows? It isn’t even 2011 yet.

    The Yankees made significant changes in 2009 – and won the World Series. They made a big trade in 2010 and got to Game 6 of the ALCS. So far in 2011, they’ve pretty much just tweaked the good roster they’ve already assembled – I see no real reason for panic. If there is one thing this regime has shown, they will give the team on the field every chance to win – if a hole develops during the season, they typically fill it. Perhaps instead of waiting until July in 2011, they’ll try to pull a trigger in June…as many teams will already know their fate by then.

    As for the original question, I would say the Sox are the better team right now – no reason to say they aren’t. But is it as significant as some seem to suggest? I don’t think so.

  221. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    Its amusing to see the fantasy world the more derided posters live in.

  222. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    # West Coast Yankee Fan December 28th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    Carlo – you forgot this one sir:

    A place where anyone that doesn’t embrace the baseball wisdom espoused by the self appointed elite are labeled trolls.
    —————————————-

    I have been on many yankee message boards and blogs in my day…..the reason i use this one now is because it is the only one that is not firewalled for me at work. I also like many of the posters here……but never, in all my years, have i been on a board where such a small group pretends to basically run the blog and happens to be so tightly wound that all they look to do is argue and promote themselves.

    Mick – i dont know where they are…..and my muppet comment was not meant to be disrespectful to either of them actually.

  223. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    nobody is claiming everything is “flowery”. They just don’t chose to look at everything is the world coming to an end. Most on here see faults, but, not everything is a fault. There are 4, beyond the regular trolls that see Boston as having zero faults and all of their pitchers will get better, the hitters will have career years and only Sabathia will come close to have his normal seasons and Hughes was just lucky.

    You talk about Hughes having this great offense behind him to get those wins, but, seem to gloss over the fact that 30% of those runs were scored AFTER he was out of the game. He had to pitch pretty damned well while he was in the game to be eligible to get those wins. You talk about Rodriguez tanking and being a cripple at third, but, gloss over the fact that his numbers outshine Youkilis. For all of his “faults”. Rodriguez produces a lot of runs every year.

  224. mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    As for the original question, I would say the Sox are the better team right now
    ==================================================
    Why because they picked up Crawford and Agon to replace Beltre and VMart?
    How does this change the status of Beckett and Lackey, the keys to their success.
    We have them beat at every position other than LF.

  225. Cashman needs to go December 28th, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Cashman Needs to Go –

    Ruin your summer? A bit extreme, no? Baseball should be a part of everyone’s summer – not the reason why your summer is good or bad.

    **************

    Sorry I meant to say my “baseball watching summer” but no worries – when the yankees are 40 – 60 at the end of july i’ll still have plenty of time left to use the time i’d be watching baseball to do even more summery things…..so maybe i should be thanking cashman instead of bashing him…how thats for positivity?

  226. blake December 28th, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Adrian Gonzalez is a really good hitter but the 2nd coming of Ted Williams he is not….in fact Id say he will be doing very well if he replaces Beltres production from last year…..Beltre had 49 doubles in 2010.

  227. Pat M. December 28th, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Replacement Level Yankee Blog was my first venture to blogging….Some good info but way too much slide rule for my taste…….Tin Cup, ripe red tomatoes will yield a nice sauce, green tomatoes, patience and time…..

  228. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    # Cashman needs to go December 28th, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Cashman Needs to Go –

    Ruin your summer? A bit extreme, no? Baseball should be a part of everyone’s summer – not the reason why your summer is good or bad.

    **************

    Sorry I meant to say my “baseball watching summer” but no worries – when the yankees are 40 – 60 at the end of july i’ll still have plenty of time left to use the time i’d be watching baseball to do even more summery things…..so maybe i should be thanking cashman instead of bashing him…how thats for positivity?
    —————————————–

    hahahaha, 40-60…..i would mow your lawn for as long as i live if they were 40-60 at any point in any of the next 5 seasons.

  229. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    In the past 10 years the most games under .500 the yankees have been at any point in a season is 8. Can’t make this stuff up.

  230. mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    most of the posters are 2nd guessers and knee jerkers, not that there’s anything wrong with that…

  231. Doreen December 28th, 2010 at 4:54 pm

    I just got home and the only thing I read was the entry by the non-Chad.

    I object to, on a Yankee blog, being asked to rate MY team vs. The ENEMY.

    The reason is not because as of his second the Red Sox spear to be in very good shape and the Yankees look to still need a piece or two. The reason is the way the choice was presented.

  232. mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    The Red Sox still look to me like the class of the division with their improvements (especially Carl Crawford), returning players who were injured and rotation. But I think their bullpen is still a little suspect, even with the addition of Bobby Jenks.
    ====================================
    Doreen,
    Leave him alone, maybe he’s a rs fan, it’s happened before.

  233. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    I should also add that when i first started coming to this blog, half of what brought me here was my hatred of the former proprietor and his squabbling over arod and girardi lying to him and all his other petty issues. man that guy was a pain. sold tickets though, as they say.

  234. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    I’ve been a baseball fan and Yankee fan since 1976, and what I remember then is the same today:

    boston will always try to compare to New York.
    the boston Red Sox will always be viewed as the team that’s ‘almost’ as good as the Yankees.

    That’s the way it was, that’s the way it is, and that’s probably the way it will be.

    Any moves that boston makes will always be discussed in a manner that compares them to the Yankees/New York. Are they as good now? Did this move make them better? Will they overtake NY. And so on, and so on.

    I’m thankful that boston finally won their WS Championships, so all boston fans can live their lives knowing that they finally got to see a championship team.

    Now, back to our regular programming – The team with 27 WS Championships, the team that wins it every few years, sometimes in succession, the team with the ownership that wants, no expects to be competitive enough to win each year – The NY Yankees.

    Go Yankees!!!

    :-)

  235. TD213 December 28th, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    A place where Nova and Mitre for the back end of a sterling rotation
    A place where no matter what the Red Sox do, they do not improve
    A place where assuming injuries to other teams but not our own makes us stack up on paper and having that belief be applauded by peers

    =========

    So true. If you notice, any conversation regarding the (optimistic) Yankees POV this year involves 2nd-tier prospect rookies turning into solid pitchers immediately (with no growing pains), Burnett lowing his ERA by 1.5 runs, Hughes solidifying himself as a #2, Jeter/ARod/Posada/Martin/Granderson/Tex all having bounce back years, and somehow getting consistency out of Joba/Robertson

    ….. all while nothing goes right for Boston, their injured players don’t recover, Beckett/Lackey/Matsuzaka/Papelbon don’t improve, Buchholz takes a step back, etc.
    there was even an idiotic suggestion that Sox fans will boo Crawford because of his race and that will effect him. Talk about grasping for straws.

    Any rosy outlook requires Yankees players to overachieve, turn back the clock, answer questions positively, etc. while the Red Sox players don’t improve, underachieve, answer their questions negatively, and have health issues. That’s the issue with the premise in general – it is based on everything going right for us and wrong for them. That is what Omar Minaya said needs to happen for the Mets to win the division last year – that’s the strategy we are emulating?

  236. mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    The reason is not because as of his second the Red Sox spear
    ====================================
    BTW have you been drinking? :)

  237. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    I’ve been a baseball fan and Yankee fan since 1976, and what I remember then is the same today:

    boston will always try to compare to New York.
    the boston Red Sox will always be viewed as the team that’s ‘almost’ as good as the Yankees.

    That’s the way it was, that’s the way it is, and that’s probably the way it will be.

    Any moves that boston makes will always be discussed in a manner that compares them to the Yankees/New York. Are they as good now? Did this move make them better? Will they overtake NY. And so on, and so on.

    I’m thankful that boston finally won their WS Championships, so all boston fans can live their lives knowing that they finally got to see a championship team.

    Now, back to our regular programming – The team with 27 WS Championships, the team that wins it every few years, sometimes in succession, the team with the ownership that wants, no expects to be competitive enough to win each year – The NY Yankees.

    Go Yankees!!!

    —————————————————————–
    I 2nd that

  238. mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    I’m thankful that boston finally won their WS Championships, so all boston fans can live their lives knowing that they finally got to see a championship team.
    =========================================
    What?!?

  239. randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    pat m-

    getting good overall pitching is going to be a battle for the yankees this year.

    it would help if the offense can get back the 50 runs it lost last year.

  240. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    # mick December 28th, 2010 at 4:59 pm

    I’m thankful that boston finally won their WS Championships, so all boston fans can live their lives knowing that they finally got to see a championship team.
    =========================================
    What?!?
    ———————————
    I said the same when i read it mick…..but after reading through it again i understand the framework and what he is saying…….that said, i wish it never happened. frankly though, i felt a lot of stress in my efforts as a fan to keep them winless since 1918……i will admit, when it finally happened for them, i felt a little relief inside despite being sick about it.

  241. Doreen December 28th, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    GB7

    Reading bottom Jo, I totally agree with your 4:46 post.

    Most intelligent fans see the flaws, in both teams.

    It always cracks me up how only the Yankees age and only the Yankees players cannot come back from a bad year and only the Yankees will never repeat a good year. Ant this from their supposed fans.

  242. Cashman needs to go December 28th, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    hahahaha, 40-60…..i would mow your lawn for as long as i live if they were 40-60 at any point in any of the next 5 seasons
    *********************

    be careful what you offer ..lol….

    of course i was exaggerating a bit but…the yankees were a .500 team from mid july on last year….

    what on the team asssembled right now gives you confidence that they won’t be worse than .500 from april to july next year

    by the way i have both a front lawn and back yard lawn…and i like to mow it at least twice a month in the summer…

  243. 4time December 28th, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    “I object to, on a Yankee blog, being asked to rate MY team vs. The ENEMY.”

    But isin’t that what has been happening here in the comment section for months?

  244. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    yankees needs…a SP who can get them 200 innings & 12-15 W’s, a 8th inning RP & a utility player OF-IN who can hit & play good D

  245. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    # randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    pat m-

    getting good overall pitching is going to be a battle for the yankees this year.

    it would help if the offense can get back the 50 runs it lost last year.
    —————

    randy – you seem to be on the same page as me in the belief that the team could struggle with the current nova/mitre/phelps/noesi scenario at the back end of the rotation. so, i ask, how does the following rotation change your view: cc, andy, hughes, aj, garcia/francis/capuano? is that a rotation that alleviates most if not all of your concerns or is it still lacking in your view?

  246. Doreen December 28th, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    GB7

    Reading bottom to top, I totally agree with your 4:46 post.

    Most intelligent fans see the flaws, in both teams.

    It always cracks me up how only the Yankees age and only the Yankees players cannot come back from a bad year and only the Yankees will never repeat a good year. Ant this from their supposed fans.

  247. Doreen December 28th, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    Mick

    I am using an iPad and for some reason appear typed as spear. I must have left out a p. Lol

  248. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    Prediction:
    The boston Red Sox will end the season imuch mproved from last year’s standings.
    They will replace the production lost from Beltre/Martinez with Gonzalez/Crawford.
    Their starting pitching will not regress!
    Their bullpen will be effective and not regress! In fact, they may save some more games!

    Wait, there’s more:

    The Rays will regress because of their losses to the pen, Crawford and Pena. So I’ll say 3rd place.

    The Yankees will not regress either.
    Starting rotation, crap that it is, will do no worse.
    Bullpen, no EIG as it is, will do no worse.
    Lineup with 3 potential HOF players, will do no worse.

    So there you have it, boston does no worse, and neither do the Yankees. Well where does that put things? Hmmm.

  249. 4time December 28th, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    “cc, andy, hughes, aj, garcia/francis/capuano?”

    Better, but if they get Andy back, they can probably afford to try a young guy in the #5

  250. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    # Cashman needs to go December 28th, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    hahahaha, 40-60…..i would mow your lawn for as long as i live if they were 40-60 at any point in any of the next 5 seasons
    *********************

    be careful what you offer ..lol….

    of course i was exaggerating a bit but…the yankees were a .500 team from mid july on last year….

    what on the team asssembled right now gives you confidence that they won’t be worse than .500 from april to july next year

    by the way i have both a front lawn and back yard lawn…and i like to mow it at least twice a month in the summer…
    ——————————-

    if you read my posts, you will recognize that i am not overly optimistic with respect to the team as it is assembled today……..had you said .500 at the end of july, i likely would not have offered the lawn mowing service without checking the schedule first……but 20 games under and completely out of the race before august? no chance.

  251. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    the yankees were a .500 team from mid july on last year….

    what on the team asssembled right now gives you confidence that they won’t be worse than .500 from april to july next year

    This view point requires you to concede that none of the yankees will improve or have a good year, and that most will play worse. most of the lineups in the 2nd half featured cervelli, kearns, berkman and ramiro pena/eduordo nunez. It also includes a terrible Vazquez, Moseley, whomever pitching.

    Its just a silly way to think. They played X way for 2 months, so they MUST be play that way going forward. Nothing can change it can only get worse!

    Silly.

  252. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    # 4time December 28th, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    “cc, andy, hughes, aj, garcia/francis/capuano?”

    Better, but if they get Andy back, they can probably afford to try a young guy in the #5
    ————————-

    sure, they can afford to…..but given andy’s age and aj’s hideous 2010, wouldnt it be prudent to have a guy like nova or one of the trio i listed above be the 5th/6th starters? its not like any of the above folks are going to be big money multi-year deals. some inexpensive insurance with upside would be nice.

  253. SAS December 28th, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    Doreen,

    I couldn’t agree more. The way the post was stated as though Josh was writing for the Sox. If that is the case, he should get a job in Boston. I know there is little news about the Yankees at the moment, but to take the point of view that Josh did was very negative, and in my opinion, not true.

    Chad needs a break. We all do, but his posts never resemble what was written above. He could have written about what the Yankees can do to improve or show that the position players are at least as good as Boston’s which I believe to be true. Carl Crawford is a good outfielder, but I think there is an upside to Gardner we haven’t seen yet.

    Hope you had a good day and that the roads, etc. were OK.

  254. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    Brian Heyman is the Heir to P-Abe’s throne.

  255. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    Doreen December 28th, 2010 at 5:04 pm
    GB7

    Reading bottom to top, I totally agree with your 4:46 post.

    Most intelligent fans see the flaws, in both teams.

    It always cracks me up how only the Yankees age and only the Yankees players cannot come back from a bad year and only the Yankees will never repeat a good year. Ant this from their supposed fans

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Doreen, I’m not expecting career years or even past averages of their seasons, but, I do expect to see a 10-15% increase over what amounts to career lows for the offense. I can’t see Sabathia or Rivera getting better than they were last year. That’s crazy to expect that. Not sure that Hughes will improve on the wins, but, he could. I do expect a big jump in over numbers like strikeouts and innings pitched. Burnett, I’d think a return to an average of his 2008-2009 season is highly possible. The rest is “who knows”. Some will improve like Chamberlain and Rovertson, but, can’t see Logan being quite as good as last year, but, i can hope.

  256. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    This view point requires you to concede that none of the yankees will improve or have a good year, and that most will play worse. most of the lineups in the 2nd half featured cervelli, kearns, berkman and ramiro pena/eduordo nunez. It also includes a terrible Vazquez, Moseley, whomever pitching.

    Its just a silly way to think. They played X way for 2 months, so they MUST be play that way going forward. Nothing can change it can only get worse!

    ————————–

    Isn’t this the viewpoint being taken of beckett, lackey, papelbon, and the fact that youkillis and pedroia were hurt for a large chunk of last season?

  257. Doreen December 28th, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    Carlo

    I would venture to guess that many here would agree that the back end of the rotation needs work. The difference is the level of panic and also realizing that there is still time. Right now, pickings are slim and I do not want Cash doing something just for the sake of doing something.

  258. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Of the remaining Closers below, which if any get signed by the Yankees and why/why not?

    Octavio Dotel (37) – Type B, offered arb
    Brian Fuentes (35) – Type B, not offered arb
    Kevin Gregg (33) – Type B, offered arb
    Trevor Hoffman (43) – Type B, offered arb
    Chad Qualls (32) – Type B, offered arb
    Jon Rauch (32) – Type B, not offered arb
    Rafael Soriano (31) – Type A, offered arb

  259. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    # Doreen December 28th, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    Carlo

    I would venture to guess that many here would agree that the back end of the rotation needs work. The difference is the level of panic and also realizing that there is still time. Right now, pickings are slim and I do not want Cash doing something just for the sake of doing something.
    —————————

    Completely agree with you………….i have no question the rotation will not be cc, aj, hughes, mitre, nova come april…….but i do take issue with posters who claim that if it was, that would be fine….it wouldn’t be fine unless people were willing to watch the yankees take their lumps this year and nobody wants that.

  260. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    Isn’t this the viewpoint being taken of beckett, lackey, papelbon, and the fact that youkillis and pedroia were hurt for a large chunk of last season?

    Maybe by some? The idea that the Red Sox are perfectly poised to run the table is a fallacy, given the injury history and effectiveness issues of their players. They have players that are older than the Yankees players, more injury prone, or worse overall. They have pitchers who did not succeed at a high level last year. They have pitchers who are injury prone. What I dislike is the assumption that merely having those players on the roster is a guarantee of success or taking the 100% rosy outcome for the red sox.

    Isn’t it a more reasonable approach to say that the Red Sox are a good, not perfect, team? Who will encounter some injuries, some drop off, as well as the benefit of some good seasons? They are not a juggernaut. They are good. They aren’t 20 games better than the Yankees though, not even 10.

    It gets tiresome to see the same cast of characters bemoaning the Yankees lot in life, or talking up the Red Sox as if they just assembled the 27 yankees.

    They still have sufficient gaps in that team.

    I wish the Yankees had better quality starters lined up right now. However, not having better quality starting pitching lined up does not mean the Red Sox are going to win 110 games and the yankees are going to be 20 games under .500 (which they’d have to be as bad as the orioles, royals, indians, or mariners last year to accomplish).

    It took catastrophic injury and down years from key players for the yankees to win only 89 games.

  261. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    Octavio Dotel (37) – Type B, offered arb
    Brian Fuentes (35) – Type B, not offered arb
    Kevin Gregg (33) – Type B, offered arb
    Trevor Hoffman (43) – Type B, offered arb
    Chad Qualls (32) – Type B, offered arb
    Jon Rauch (32) – Type B, not offered arb
    Rafael Soriano (31) – Type A, offered arb
    ———————————–

    Dotel – swore he signed or was close to signing with toronto the other day….maybe it fell through

    Fuentes – at the current asking price, no way……too many suitors and not expensive enough to scare enough of them away

    Hoffman – no because then the media will factor in his 43 into their “yankees are aging 25 man roster age average” and annoy us all

    Gregg- i hope not……i really dont think he is good

    Soriano – honestly, call me crazy, but like i have said for a while, if soriano is willing to setup for 2 years and we give him a 4 year deal…….it will happen……i dont believe there are enough teams with the need and the means to give him close to what he wants…..i do not believe arte moreno loses the purse strings when he can sell fernando rodney to his fans for now while trying to find some offense

    Rauch – close 2nd in my view behind soriano

    net net – i say one of rauch/soriano.

  262. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    Jerkface – i dont know who is, but i am not amongst the crew that believes boston wins 100+ games……..they do have problems…..i love that the media has anointed them the kings of the offseason and the team to beat………………….that said, i do believe, at this time, our problems are more troublesome then theirs for the near term.

  263. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    Octavio Dotel (37) – Type B, offered arb — Signed
    Brian Fuentes (35) – Type B, not offered arb — If he was cheap
    Kevin Gregg (33) – Type B, offered arb – No, awful
    Trevor Hoffman (43) – Type B, offered arb – No, awful
    Chad Qualls (32) – Type B, offered arb – No, awful
    Jon Rauch (32) – Type B, not offered arb – Yes
    Rafael Soriano (31) – Type A, offered arb – No, expensive

  264. Doreen December 28th, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    Carlo

    It might not be fine, but it could end up being one of those “it is what it is” situations. I hope not. A good veteran, ” innings eater” will help.

    Cashman does realize the absolute value of pitching, so I am hopeful. The problem is what is available at what cost.

    Mick,

    I just read my first post. Omg. This iPad certainly has a mind os it’s own. I could not even decipher it.

  265. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    This isn’t even the best red sox team assembled in the past 5 years. The Yankees and the Sox will have at it for the division next year. And the loser will win the wild card.

  266. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    Carlo ……..Christamas gift from kids..airfare to Vegas plus Celine Dion concert tickets in June…little far off but looking foward to it

  267. West Coast Yankee Fan December 28th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    Note To Brian Heyman:

    See the crap we have to put up with here? Let’s review what you said regarding the Yankees and Red Sox:

    “The Red Sox still look to me like the class of the division with their improvements (especially Carl Crawford), returning players who were injured and rotation”.

    A more than reasonable contention Brain and exactly what most baseball writers and analysts are saying. The Red Sox do look like the class of the division if for no other reason then they are healthy and the Yankees only have three proven starters.

    “But I think their bullpen is still a little suspect, even with the addition of Bobby Jenks”.

    A comment that proves you are not one-sided and again a rational and accepted belief given Papelbon’s failings and a weak back-end of the bullpen.

    “Of course, we have about seven weeks for the Yankees to make some additional moves before pitchers and catchers report to Tampa. But, being objective, would you rank the Red Sox ahead of the Yankees right now?”

    Another reasonable comment stating that the off-season isn’t over and ending with a legitimate question.

  268. Doreen December 28th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    Joeman

    You have great kids!

  269. mick December 28th, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    The rs are the eternal underdogs, no matter what they do, to the Goliath Yankees. It’s all in the story and that’s their business. They are storytellers and it’s all set up for them. Always has been. For those who don’t know, we have been beating on the rs dreams for many , many decades. We pulled things on them many times, almost as bad as what they did to us, one time. We even stole an MVP from Ted Williams who won the Triple Crown. I , for one, love the rivalry and can’t get enough of the hype. It’s the rs fans I can’t stand, more than the rivalry the teams present. I can also say that about some Yankee fans who just don’t get it with their sense of entitlement.

  270. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    # Doreen December 28th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    Joeman

    You have great kids!
    ———————————————–
    yes they are…..

    don’t worry they have a motive….they are coming also so I can pay for everything else

  271. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    For my 2 cents: my preferences in order are Soriano, Rauch, and Fuentes, as all they cost is money, not trade pieces.

    Soriano would have to be offered a 4 year deal, and be willing to accept not closing. That’s hard to do.

    Rauch to me is the perfect setup guy. Effective, durable, and can close as he did for the Twins when Nathan was down.

    Fuentes is a lefty, so Baltimore will always be intrested as they are with lefty closers, but he could have value against teams such as boston.

    I want nothing to do with Dotel, Gregg, Hoffman, and Qualls.

  272. randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    ” how does the following rotation change your view: cc, andy, hughes, aj, garcia/francis/capuano”

    carlo-

    i’m looking for an innings eater and that doesn’t sound like garcia,francais, or capuano.

    we went through this pitching shortage debate back in 2008 on the blog. fo going young or going veteran for 4th and 5th starter help.

    i’d go with nova at five and if andy retires i’d go for a guy who had a history of throwing 200 plus innings and 30+ starts every year.

    i think it’s getting time for andy to make up his mind . even though he’s said plan as if he was retired, i don’t think the yankees can do that until he actually makes a decision.

    i think he’s had enough time.

  273. Doreen December 28th, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    Joeman

    Now, that sounds more like it!

  274. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    to support my belief that soriano is not as far fetched as some may think………….

    Teams whose ownership and GM could reasonably believe they can win it all next year:

    Philly – have lidge, have stretched the payroll
    Washington – they certainly are unpredictable, but i cant see them going after a closer now
    Cincy – eh, maybe, but dont get the impression they need a closer or have that kind of money
    st louis – never seem to invest big money in pen arms and have to save for the albert check
    milwaukee – they are a wildcard sleep suitor …. but just signed saito so maybe they are trying to build with smaller pieces rather than splurge on a big one
    san fran – have a closer
    la dodgers – have a closer
    boston – have a closer
    tampa – not going to spend
    white sox – interesting, could get involved
    tigers – signed benoit already
    twins – have closer
    anaheim – could be a player…..i dont think moreno gets it done
    texas – have closer

    Now – here is why i said one year, next years free agent class is much stronger and deeper:

    Heath Bell (34)
    Jonathan Broxton (28)
    Matt Capps (28)
    Jonathan Papelbon (31)
    Francisco Rodriguez (30) – $17.5MM club/vesting option with a $3.5MM buyout

    Bottom line is that i think soriano’s price tag could fall into what cashman is comfortable paying for a setup man…….with two extra years on it.

  275. randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    “This isn’t even the best red sox team assembled in the past 5 years. The Yankees and the Sox will have at it for the division next year. And the loser will win the wild card.”

    i totally agree with jerkface on this, and totally disagree how he came to this conclusion :)

  276. Pat M. December 28th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Carlo….There is no way the 2011 NY Yankees are going to win 90 plus games with Mitre in the rotation along side Nova who I do like and will do alright….The bullpen is in dire need of a righthander to compete for or be the 8th inning option…..Wood’s departure is significant…….The way things are right now even if you stroll out the 27 or 61 Yankee lineup this club will struggle to win 90 games…….As I’ve stated before, if the price is right 2 years of Carlos Zambrano would fill the bill for the rotation hole…….Even with Mitre as the 6th starter my stomach gets queasy with that thought…….

  277. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    TEAM | CLOSER | INTERIM CLOSER | SECURITY | NEXT-IN-LINE |
    +———–+———————+—————–+————-+———————————+
    | Angels | Fernando Rodney | | Shaky | Scott Downs, Jordan Walden |
    | Athletics | Andrew Bailey | | Secure | Mike Wuertz |
    | Blue Jays | Octavio Dotel | | Secure | Jason Frasor, Shawn Camp |
    | Indians | Chris Perez | | Secure | Rafael Perez |
    | Mariners | David Aardsma | | Shaky | Brandon League |
    | Orioles | Koji Uehara | | Shaky | Mike Gonzalez |
    | Rangers | Neftali Feliz | | Secure | Frank Francisco, Arthur Rhodes |
    | Rays | VACANCY | | — | Jake McGee, J.P. Howell |
    | Red Sox | Jonathan Papelbon | | Shaky | Daniel Bard, Bobby Jenks |
    | Royals | Joakim Soria | | Locked In | Robinson Tejeda |
    | Tigers | Jose Valverde | | Secure | Joaquin Benoit, Joey Zumaya |
    | Twins | Joe Nathan | | Secure | Matt Capps |
    | White Sox | Matt Thornton | | Shaky | Jesse Crain, Jesse Crain |
    | Yankees | Mariano Rivera | | Locked In | Joba Chamberlain, Feliciano |
    +———–+———————+—————–+————-+———————————+
    | Astros | Brandon Lyon | | Secure | Wilton Lopez |
    | Braves | Jonny Venters | | Shaky | Craig Kimbrel |
    | Brewers | John Axford | | Shaky | Takashi Saito |
    | Cardinals | Ryan Franklin | | Secure | Jason Motte |
    | Cubs | Carlos Marmol | | Secure | Kerry Wood, Sean Marshall |
    | D’Backs | J.J. Putz | | Secure | David Hernandez |
    | Dodgers | Jonathan Broxton | | Shaky | Hong-Chih Kuo, Kenley Jansen |
    | Giants | Brian Wilson | | Secure | Sergio Romo |
    | Marlins | Leo Nunez | | Shaky | Clay Hensley |
    | Mets | Francisco Rodriguez | | Secure | Bobby Parnell |
    | Nationals | Drew Storen | | Shaky | Sean Burnett, Tyler Clippard |
    | Padres | Heath Bell | | Shaky | Mike Adams |
    | Phillies | Brad Lidge | | Secure | Ryan Madson |
    | Pirates | Joel Hanrahan / Evan Meek | Shaky | |
    | Reds | Francisco Cordero | | Secure | Aroldis Chapman |
    | Rockies | Huston Street | | Shaky | Betancourt, Lindstrom, Belisle

  278. mick December 28th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    joeman the celine deon fan?

  279. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    Joeman – thats a big time present……love the fact that they are coming along so you can buy them everything. where do you stay when you go out?

  280. West Coast Yankee Fan December 28th, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    I think Heath Bell is available now for the right offer.

  281. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    here is no way the 2011 NY Yankees are going to win 90 plus games with Mitre in the rotation along side Nova who I do like and will do alright…

    Please review 2007, 2006, and 2005. We’ve had some awwwwwwwful rotations.

  282. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    # Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    Joeman – thats a big time present……love the fact that they are coming along so you can buy them everything. where do you stay when you go out?
    ———————————-
    Bellagio…….have a host

  283. blake December 28th, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    I think Soriano would be great if they decided to spend the money and he would accept a set up role. It would shorten the game and take pressure off Rivera and help keep him healthy and rested. Rauch also would be good and wouldn’t require giving Tampa a draft pick. It just depends on where the market goes with Soriano and what role he’s willing to accept.

  284. 4time December 28th, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    Carlo….There is no way the 2011 NY Yankees are going to win 90 plus games with Mitre in the rotation along side Nova who I do like and will do alright….The bullpen is in dire need of a righthander to compete for or be the 8th inning option…..Wood’s departure is significant…….The way things are right now even if you stroll out the 27 or 61 Yankee lineup this club will struggle to win 90 games…….As I’ve stated before, if the price is right 2 years of Carlos Zambrano would fill the bill for the rotation hole…….Even with Mitre as the 6th starter my stomach gets queasy with that thought…….

    ————–

    Excellent and reasonable post.

  285. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    Pat M. December 28th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Carlo….There is no way the 2011 NY Yankees are going to win 90 plus games with Mitre in the rotation along side Nova who I do like and will do alright…

    ————————————————-

    You dont have to tell me that……..i am in full agreement with you and randy…….as it is right now, this rotation simply doesn’t get it done. I agree with tin cup re zambrano…..if andy retires, and it sounds like Tex is confirming today that its heading that way…..then its absolutely imperative they go get an innings eater…..and if he happens to be diabolical with a shorter fastball then he once had, so be it.

  286. 4time December 28th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    Surprised that Rauch is still out there… the last good RH option left aside from Soriano.

  287. blake December 28th, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    I don’t think there is any way the Yanks will start the season with Mitre in the rotation. I also don’t think they will start the season 30 million bucks shy of what they budgeted for this winter.

  288. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    I wanted the Big Z here but got shot down by many….him with Rauch and a utility player who can hit and play D …bring on the mighty RS

  289. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    Joeman- check out the new cosmopolitan right next door when you are out there. was in there back in november getting a tour before it opened…..place is very nice.

    Tough to beat bellagio though……although some guy recently beat them for $2 mm in the middle of the night by walking in with a motorcycle helmet on and robbing chips from a blackjack table with a gun.

  290. mick December 28th, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    New York Yankees’ Mark Teixeira says Andy Pettitte is leaning …
    ==========================================
    read it and weep

  291. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    # Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    Joeman- check out the new cosmopolitan right next door when you are out there. was in there back in november getting a tour before it opened…..place is very nice.

    Tough to beat bellagio though……although some guy recently beat them for $2 mm in the middle of the night by walking in with a motorcycle helmet on and robbing chips from a blackjack table with a gun.
    ———————————————–
    saw that …they didn’t catch that guy

  292. randy l. December 28th, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    “Please review 2007, 2006, and 2005. We’ve had some awwwwwwwful rotations.”

    what?

    leave 2008 out?

  293. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    I read it Mick……dont think there is anything new in it, but I fully agree with Pat or Tin Cup (not sure who said it), its time for andy to make up his mind and let the team know. As much as cashman pretends he isnt waiting, there is no question andy’s decision impacts how he goes about the rest of the offseason.

  294. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    Love all the Soriano analysis. For what it’s worth, I think he wants to be where he can close regularly, which puts the Yankees at a disadvantage. Angels and White Sox seem like the teams who could use an upgrade at closer. Brewers could cap off a good offseason proving they are going for it all though.

  295. mick December 28th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    Carlo, I still think Andy is posturing…

  296. Pat M. December 28th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    Face…You failed to mention 2004 which was the last time they made it past the ALDS with a average and frail rotation……The trend from 04 was that the league was getting better and the Bombers were not……The competition has improved greatly since 2004…..

  297. mick December 28th, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    Why should Soriano come here as a set up man when he can close elsewhere and come back to us for that much more money in a few years?

  298. Dee December 28th, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    The problem with Andy retiring is that our rotation will need another lefty. CC can’t be our only lefty…especially against the lefty hitting Sox. I have this dream of acquiring Sean Marshall and inserting him in the rotation, but since that won’t happen…there are no legit Lefty rotation options on the market. It’s a huge hole to fill.

  299. Yank 97 December 28th, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    Teixeira said on Tuesday that, through his communication with Pettitte, he’s gotten the sense that the veteran left-hander is “leaning toward retirement.” But the Yankees first baseman is holding out hope that Pettitte will return to a Yankee rotation that sorely needs him next season.

    “I think, like everyone else [thinks], if he’s leaning one way, he’s probably leaning towards retiring,” Teixeira said on Tuesday at a press conference to kick off Thursday’s Pinstripe Bowl game at Yankee Stadium. “I think that’s what he’s publicly said. It’s no secret right now. That’s probably where he’s leaning. But in a month and a half, a lot can happen.”

  300. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    Face…You failed to mention 2004 which was the last time they made it past the ALDS with a average and frail rotation……The trend from 04 was that the league was getting better and the Bombers were not……The competition has improved greatly since 2004…..

    The goal is to get into the playoffs. Those 2004-whenever teams didn’t have CC and a pitcher with Hughes upside. You want to say the Yankees will have trouble in the playoffs if Nova / Mitre are making starts? Ok, I agree.

    But you said would not win 90 games. They’ve won 90+ games with waaaaaaay worse.

    And randy, I left out 2008 because they only won 89 games :x Even though that had to do with the putrid offense as well.

  301. mick December 28th, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    joeman, your presense here has driven away some of your favorites and you know who they are.

  302. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 5:58 pm

    DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    Love all the Soriano analysis. For what it’s worth, I think he wants to be where he can close regularly, which puts the Yankees at a disadvantage.

    —————–
    the only counterpoint i can offer to combat this view is that soriano is 31 and is trying to get a 4 year deal…….if the market is thin, as i believe it is……then he as to take the biggest dollar offer out there regardless of role…..he will be 35 at the end of this deal…..he cant expect to cash in big again. he has made roughly $20 mm over his career so far……..its not as though he has prospered to the point where the money doesnt matter to him anymore.

  303. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    soriano should settle for a 2 year deal with his eyes set on the Yankees in 2013

  304. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    # mick December 28th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    Carlo, I still think Andy is posturing…
    —————————————–

    Unfortunately mick, i dont. dont get me wrong, i think he may still come back, but for a guy who has made well over $100 mm in baseball salary alone……to posture over what will amount to a couple million bucks, even less after tax, doesnt make sense. this years pay will serve as nothing more than a rounding error on his career earnings.

  305. Doreen December 28th, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    What did Tex say today?

  306. Ross December 28th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    You should try living in the Boston media market – utterly brutal. The main debate, at the moment, seems to be centered on WHICH National League team theey are going to sweep in the World Series (the first of MANY they will win back to back, according to sports talk radio up here).

    Oh, and it seems that it is pointless for any other American League to bother playing, so every other club should just skip Spring Training and just head for the pool, this year!! I have never heard so much guff in all my life………………………..

  307. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    # mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    soriano should settle for a 2 year deal with his eyes set on the Yankees in 2013

    ——————

    well now that we traded melancon, the closer role is their for the taking when Mariano retires. ;)

  308. Yank 97 December 28th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    “its time for andy to make up his mind and let the team know.”

    Cashman is quoted as saying that he is not waiting on Andy because Andy told him not to, he is assuming that he is retiring, but he’s welcome back.

    I don’t think the plan changes even if Andy comes back… Cashman is probably still trying to get another starter. Even if he acquires another starter, Andy’s spot is still available.

    We need 2 starters, but realistically, we’re probably only going to be able to acquire one good/solid one, at best. (and I mean a real pitcher, a la Billingsly/Floyd/Jackson, not a reclamation guy like Garcia, Francis, etc.)

  309. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    carlo

    i take the contrarian view….the longer Andy waits, the more I think he comes back….

  310. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    With Benoit and Downs setting the relief market at 3/$16.5M and 3/$15M respectively, Rauch, Fuentes, and Gregg must be seeking similar.

    Knowing that KRod got a rediculous contract a few years ago,Soriano must be asking for 4/$60+M, and nobody is willing to give it to him. I would offer 2/$20M to set up for Mo, and if he agrees, the entire baseball world will be decrying how we ‘overpaid’ for a setup man. Next year’s FA closer market is crowded so I’m sure he’d rather not be in that bunch, but be the premier closer in the following year.

  311. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    *their – meant there

  312. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    well now that we traded melancon, the closer role is their for the taking when Mariano retires.
    =======================
    carlo, with or without melancon, that will always be the case.

  313. blake December 28th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    If Andy is posturing then I don’t think its for money….they’ll pay him if he wants to pitch. I think its possible that’s he’s waiting to see what other moves the Yanks can make so he knows what kind of team he’d be comitting to.

  314. Warning Track Power December 28th, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    Tex-Thanks for that update.
    I don’t think it matters much that Tex shared the news. Nothing surprising there.
    Plenty of time for Pettitte to change tell the team he is returning for another season.

  315. Pat M. December 28th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    Face….We differ on our outlook for 2011 as things are right now…….I’m not talking about advancing come October, I’m talking about playing in October….The rotation and the bullpen are a house of cards currently…….Maybe Brackman sizzles in March and breaks camp with the club, but Sergio is not an option as I see things…..

  316. Carl December 28th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    http://www.gettyimages.com/det.....ages-Sport

    Big CC slimmed up.

  317. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 6:08 pm

    Yank 97 December 28th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    “its time for andy to make up his mind and let the team know.”

    Cashman is quoted as saying that he is not waiting on Andy because Andy told him not to, he is assuming that he is retiring, but he’s welcome back.

    ———————–
    97 – to me it is undeniable that Andy has an impact on what Cashman does. what he publicly says means nothing. if andy retires then they have to go get a veteran, whether its a zambrano or a buehrle or any other big salary type guy via trade. if he returns, that need no longer exists……then they can go the route of a francis or a capuano or do nothing and count on Nova.

    I dont think cashman is willing to go spend the salary money required to take on a contract right now if he thinks there is a chance andy comes back. thats why i think he is lying when he says he is operating as if andy is done. when andy announces to the fans “i have retired” then cashman will do what he is waiting to do now.

  318. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    I don’t think the plan changes even if Andy comes back… Cashman is probably still trying to get another starter. Even if he acquires another starter, Andy’s spot is still available.
    =================================
    Yes, but at what price is the issue with this management. It matters to them in that Andy + a pitcher will diminish the pitcher to be named.

    Without Andy they will go for an equivalent replacement, with him they won’t.

  319. Jerzz December 28th, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    “I think its possible that’s he’s waiting to see what other moves the Yanks can make so he knows what kind of team he’d be comitting to.”

    I agree.

    All the reports were that Lee/Andy were intertwined… that Andy only wants to put his aching body through another season if he can taste a championship. Even Cash/Girardi were quoted as saying that Andy told them he really wants them to get Lee.

    I don’t think Andy wants to be the savior… if Cash acquires another starter, I think Andy is much more likely to come back. If it was only about $$$, it would be done by now. Even Randy Levine, the “bad cop” said that he dreams every night that Andy comes back. Their desperation for him is well documented. He will get his $$ and he doesn’t have to wait to get it. I think you’re right when you say that he is waiting to see what else Cash has in store for the team.

  320. UpState December 28th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    mick December 28th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
    joeman, your presense here has driven away some of your favorites and you know who they are.
    ===============

    joeman = goodman / who’s he chasing away ???

  321. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Big CC slimmed up.
    ===============
    CC looks like a middle linebacker

  322. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    I’m not talking about advancing come October, I’m talking about playing in October….The rotation and the bullpen are a house of cards currently

    And I say if you’re worried about getting into october, you need to look at what past Yankee teams dealt with in the rotation. Most operated with 1 or 2 reliable starters and a heap of junk.

    The team as currently constructed will win 90 games.

  323. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    I think Pettitte will retire and spend time with his kids and family during the school year.
    Then, come All Star Break, he unretires for a final push, if the Yankees are in the pennant race, which I (and he) expects them to be. Of course, he’s welcomed back with open arms, ala Clemens, and to a standing ovation at YS for his ‘season debut’.

    Yankees win AL East. AL Championship, and WS.

    Andy and Posada retire as the batterymates they are, and walk off into the sunset.

  324. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    joeman = goodman / who’s he chasing away ???
    ===============================
    I am a pseudo fan of the joeman….he has a special group he refers to of which I know 2 of the 3

  325. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    # UpState December 28th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    mick December 28th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
    joeman, your presense here has driven away some of your favorites and you know who they are.
    ===============

    joeman = goodman / who’s he chasing away ???

    ===============

    just a few goons and lowlifes…..some of which may or may not be completely out of their minds. joeman, as usual, did the rest of us a favor.

  326. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    # mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    joeman = goodman / who’s he chasing away ???
    ===============================
    I am a pseudo fan of the joeman….he has a special group he refers to of which I know 2 of the 3
    —————————————————-

    I am a big fan of his. I believe i know one of the members of the group, but thats it and i may be wildly off base.

  327. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    If Andy is posturing then I don’t think its for money….they’ll pay him if he wants to pitch. I think its possible that’s he’s waiting to see what other moves the Yanks can make so he knows what kind of team he’d be comitting to.
    ==========================He knows the kind of team he’s committing to.
    He knows they will get another reliever to set up. I can’t believe those who say Andy doesn’t care about the money.

  328. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    I am a big fan of his. I believe i know one of the members of the group, but thats it and i may be wildly off base.
    ===========================
    He’s a gambler like you, that’s why you like him. For a gambler he plays it close to the vest.
    Maybe that’s what a good gambler does.

  329. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 6:21 pm

    mick,

    I believe that Andy want’s fair compensation, and I don’t think that means $11.5M. If he’s offered $15-$16M, he’ll probably come back, but if he doesn’t can you imagine the PR nightmare “Another FA turns down Yankee money. Even Andy Pettitte does’nt want to play for the Yankees”.

    That’s why I think this is so quiet. I believe that Cashman will know first whether Andy returns or not, and he’ll pull the trigger on a move once he gets the answer, just so that he doesn’t overpay.

  330. kd December 28th, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    i am not so sure it’s the money that andy’s after… it’s the clemens trial. he’s going to be called in to testify. he admitted that he worked out with the guy, shared a trainer, and took hgh. there will be many, many questions for pettitte to answer. i am not so sure he wants to go through that while being an active pitcher.

    his retirement now might cost him a chance at the hall of fame, but it’s not like he’s a sure fire lock.

    he doesn’t have a lot to gain coming back, other than the fun of playing. i don’t know him personally, but i get the feeling he doesn’t want to be a distraction.

  331. 108 stitches December 28th, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    As what happens in most years, Scott Boras clients are the last to be signed. He’ll play the waiting game for his higher profile names of Soriano and Beltre.
    It’s why signing a Jon Rauch now is advisable before Soriano’s price drives up the reliever market even higher.

  332. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    I don’t see them paying him 15-16m, maybe 12 with an option for 2-3m so he can go out in style.

  333. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    most likely the clemens trial gets delayed, andy can’t let that stop him , he hems and haws every year, why should this be different?

  334. austinmac December 28th, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    Mick,

    What is your basis for belief Pettitte is posturing? Give me one supporting fact, and I will be much pleased.

    The Yankees are not a playoff team as currently constituted. Ask Jeter if pitching is the key. He says it repeatedly. So has every knowledgable person since Connie Mack. They must get a quality starter. They must get an EIG. Robertson and Joba have both failed in that role.

    To do so will hurt, but not as much as a summer of Mitre or his skill level.

  335. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    Getting back to pitching, how’s this for a trade:

    Yankees trade Joba Chamberlain and cash to White Sox for Edwin Jackson.
    Yankees then sign Jon Rauch and Will Ohman.

  336. Mike Ri December 28th, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    Not sure if this has been Posted : via rotoworld.com

    Mark Teixeira said Tuesday that through text messages with Andy Pettitte, he feels the veteran left-hander is “leaning toward retirement.”
    “I think, like everyone else [thinks], if he’s leaning one way, he’s probably leaning towards retiring,” said Teixeira. “I think that’s what he’s publicly said. It’s no secret right now. That’s probably where he’s leaning. But in a month and a half, a lot can happen.” This is essentially what Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said last week, so there probably won’t be an update here until there is some sort of final resolution.
    Source: ESPNNewYork.com

  337. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    Edit: Joba Chamberlain, Francisco Cervelli, and cash for Edwin Jackson.

  338. 4time December 28th, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    “It’s why signing a Jon Rauch now is advisable before Soriano’s price drives up the reliever market even higher.”

    Agree. They need to make their move on Rauch, he is the last good RH option available.

  339. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    # DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    Getting back to pitching, how’s this for a trade:

    Yankees trade Joba Chamberlain and cash to White Sox for Edwin Jackson.
    Yankees then sign Jon Rauch and Will Ohman.
    —————————————————-

    at his( Jackson) age and playing with so many teams says stay away

  340. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    What is your basis for belief Pettitte is posturing? Give me one supporting fact, and I will be much pleased.

    The Yankees are not a playoff team as currently constituted.
    ==========================================
    Austin,

    Andy is negotiating. Why is he above the money?
    Not a playoff team, I beg to differ. They are not finished and are not far away from being an elite team. You don’t think they will get an EIG? Or is it a utility IF or 4th OF that worries you?

    You say “they must get a quality starter.” Well he is that man and he knows it. Once again, it’s called negotiation.

  341. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    rather retrain Joba to be a SP……let him stay in the minors till june

  342. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    Joba hasn’t failed. He’s been inconsistent and has underperformed. When he’s good he’s good, but when he’s bad he’s horrible. That hurts when you’re a reliever moreso than a starter.

    Robertson regressed somewhat, but has the makeup and talent to regain his 2009 form when he had one of the highest K/9 ratio’s in the game.

    A prudent move would be the signing of a Jon Rauch right now. An additional lefty isn’t necessary, but wouldn’t hurt if cheap, such as Will Ohman.

    My earlier suggestion of signing a Francis/Capuano would permit them to be either in the rotation or the bullpen as swingmen should Andy return and the powers that be decide to either trade for another starter or keep Nova in the rotation.

  343. TD213 December 28th, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    “Andy is negotiating. Why is he above the money?”

    If the Yanks are not offering him a blank check already, they are incredibly dumb.

    “They are not finished ”

    I believe that poster said “as currently constituted”, which he is right about.

  344. m1kew December 28th, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    Soria Wouldn’t Block Trade To Yankees

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

  345. 4time December 28th, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    “rather retrain Joba to be a SP……let him stay in the minors till june”

    He is out of options. However, I think they should give him a chance to compete as a starter for the 5th spot anyway.

  346. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    My concern with Joba is not only his mental makeup but his arm.
    He seems to have nursed it as a starter and at times in relief.
    This might be wise as a starter but not as a reliever.
    Either he developed bad habits or he is hurt.
    This should not be difficult to determine and is crucial to his future success or lack of it.

  347. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    # 4time December 28th, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    “rather retrain Joba to be a SP……let him stay in the minors till june”

    He is out of options. However, I think they should give him a chance to compete as a starter for the 5th spot anyway.
    —————————————————————–
    didn’t know that….fill me in why is he out of options

  348. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    Joba is not out of options.

  349. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    TD213 December 28th, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    “Andy is negotiating. Why is he above the money?”

    If the Yanks are not offering him a blank check already, they are incredibly dumb.

    “They are not finished ”
    ====================
    What I meant was not finished with their offseason moves, or in season for that matter.

  350. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    # mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    My concern with Joba is not only his mental makeup but his arm.
    He seems to have nursed it as a starter and at times in relief.
    This might be wise as a starter but not as a reliever.
    Either he developed bad habits or he is hurt.
    This should not be difficult to determine and is crucial to his future success or lack of it.
    ———————————————————————————
    if you ask me the Yankees jerked this kid around from the get go…..he wasn’t ready to pitch in the majors….the hype got him there and it was a mistake

  351. 108 stitches December 28th, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Mitre threw 51.2 innings in 2009 and 54 innings in 2010.

    Chamberlain threw 157.1 in 2009 as a starter and dropped to 71.2 innings in 2010 exclusively as a reliever.

    Neither one should or could be considered as a starter in 2011. Too much arm strength to be built up.

  352. Mike Ri December 28th, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    The Yankees still could use a set-up man but they need another starter especially if Pettitte retires and latest report said he is again, as usual, leaning towards retirement. I wouldn’t mind them getting Soria as long as it doesn’t take something Huge (Montero) to give up. A valuable starter is better than a valuable closer

  353. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    if you ask me the Yankees jerked this kid around from the get go…..he wasn’t ready to pitch in the majors….the hype got him there and it was a mistake
    ==================================
    Joba loved the limelight as a dynamic guy out of the pen under pressure, he was a wildman.
    To slow him down by starting him was destined to fail. He works off adrenaline.

    Enter Randy.

  354. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    DaSaint007-

    Like your thinking. If the White Sox unload some salary, they might be the team that looks to sign Soriano.

    If the Cubs are looking to shed salary, her’s a possibility- Trade for Ryan Dempster and the remaining 27.5M left in salary over the next 2 years, and take on a player they want to unload like Fukudome[owed 13.5M in last year].
    The players the Yankees include would be dependant on how much cash the Cubs absorb.

    Sign Jon Rauch for the bullpen. Hope that Montero heads north with the team and make one of Nova/Phelps the 5th starter. Hopefully Brackman will also make an impact in ST.

  355. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    Mitre threw 51.2 innings in 2009 and 54 innings in 2010.

    Chamberlain threw 157.1 in 2009 as a starter and dropped to 71.2 innings in 2010 exclusively as a reliever.

    Neither one should or could be considered as a starter in 2011. Too much arm strength to be built up.
    ===================================
    Mitre will not start. He, at best, could spell what Aceves did. It’s too early in the game to panic.

  356. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    The Royals have said to be keeping Soria, although I can’t imagine he’ll have many save chances.

  357. Jerzz December 28th, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    Joba has options, but I believe he has to pass through waivers before he can be sent down. That’s what RAB said right?

  358. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    mick….

    when the other one shows I give you a sign

  359. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    Joba has options, but I believe he has to pass through waivers before he can be sent down. That’s what RAB said right?

    When players are put on optional assignment they are already passing through waivers. There is a gentleman’s agreement between all clubs not to claim players on these waivers. Now it is possible that Joba might have to pass through normal waivers to be optioned to the minors, and I have been told that this is due to a rule in the CBA.

    Unfortunately, I have been unable to find this rule. It has to do with being optioned a number of years after your major league debut.

    But considering players can have up to 4 options, I find it dubious that the rule would not consider the 4th option.

    http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/info/cba.jsp CBA if anyone wants to read it

  360. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    Time for the Knicks. Eagles. Don’t forget McCartney tonight, hear there’s a”Here Comes The Sun” medley on tap from the Kennedy Center.

  361. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    There’s problems with ST and pitchers over the last 10 or 15 years and that’s that pitchers don’t get the 30-40 innings that they need to get ready for the season. Now, they’re lucky to get 20-25 innings in. Hitters are in a similar situation. Now, they get 40-50 at bats instead of the normal 75-90 at bats 10-15 years ago. it makes it tougher to evaluate just how ready they really are. There should be more split squad games scheduled.

  362. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    joeman

    deal, but i think there’s more than 3…

  363. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    joeman-
    Joba is not out of options. Found this recent post on the yes network site:

    Here’s the bullpen as it stacks up right now:

    R – Mariano Rivera
    R – David Robertson
    R – Joba Chamberlain
    L – Pedro Feliciano
    L – Boone Logan
    R – Sergio Mitre
    L – Robert Fish/R – Romulo Sanchez

    From that group, only Robertson and Chamberlain have options remaining, but something will have to go terribly wrong for the Yankees to use them given that those two are their primary right-handed set-up men. Logan is out of options (much to his delight and relief), as is Sanchez. Fish is a Rule 5 pick, who would have to be offered back to the Angels if removed from the 25-man roster.

  364. Warning Track Power December 28th, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    I won’t name names, but some of you here would make the worst GM’s in the history of the game.

  365. Jerzz December 28th, 2010 at 6:53 pm

    Jerk – Thanks. That rule did seem odd.

  366. 4time December 28th, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    Yeah, I based my info on that RAB piece too. Nevermind then. Either way, I’m all for giving him another chance to start.

  367. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    Elton John’s husband just had a baby-Congrats!

  368. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    WTP, don’t use absolutes.

  369. Warning Track Power December 28th, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    Mick-
    Keep preaching over there.
    Very early to panic.
    Too early for fans to throw in the towel or declare the 2011 season over.

    Games are not won/lost on paper.

    Between the lines is where the games are played.

  370. West Coast Yankee Fan December 28th, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    “The Yankees reportedly offered top catching prospect Jesus Montero in exchange for Soria last July”. MLBTR

  371. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    # mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    joeman

    deal, but i think there’s more than 3…
    —————————————————————–

    just 3….they jumped on me one day like I was road kill for saying AG was going to be traded to the RS for minor leaguers

  372. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    WTP

    So I take it I’m not on your list of worst GM’s….good to know.

  373. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    last posting from MLBTradeRumors re: Soria:

    “I didn’t put it there, my agent did, as a strategy,” Soria said. “But if the Royals decide to trade me to New York I would gladly go to play with the Yankees or any other team… I repeat, I would not block a trade to the Yankees. I like to play baseball and I would play with any team.”

  374. mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:59 pm

    I remember that joeman….gb and al were 2, i forget the 3rd shooter..

  375. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 6:59 pm

    # joeman December 28th, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    # mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    joeman

    deal, but i think there’s more than 3…
    —————————————————————–

    just 3….they jumped on me one day like I was road kill for saying AG was going to be traded to the RS for minor leaguers
    ———————————————–

    WCYF was part of this rant also

  376. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    And he shall be levon, and he shall be a good man.

  377. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    # joeman December 28th, 2010 at 6:59 pm

    # joeman December 28th, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    # mick December 28th, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    joeman

    deal, but i think there’s more than 3…
    —————————————————————–

    just 3….they jumped on me one day like I was road kill for saying AG was going to be traded to the RS for minor leaguers
    ———————————————–

    WCYF was part of this rant also….on the good side

  378. 108 stitches December 28th, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    GB-7 :

    Part of the problem is the requirement that teams send a certain amount of headliner players on road trips to satisfy fans of seeing them. The rest stay back and work out on their own if there isn’t a split squad game.
    Once the minor leaguers arrive in mid-March and ST rosters are pared down, they still don’t seem to get in enough work.

  379. Warning Track Power December 28th, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    mick-like i said earlier, i won’t name names, just kidding.
    make no mistake, you seem to have some concept on how the game works and seem to understand trading players is not very easy.
    someone’s wish list does not mean the trade can or will happen.
    there are fans here wearing a GM hat who believe they are operating a video game.
    amusing to me!

  380. mick December 28th, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    wcyf? where has he been? what did wcyf stand for?

  381. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    Trader,

    What if the White Sox signed Soriano, and had to free up salary as per your scenario?

    Maybe Williams is willing to deal Buhrle or Jackson at that point, for Joba and Cervelli. Joba slots in behind Jessie Crain, while Cervelli certainly seems better than Tyler Flowers.

  382. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 7:03 pm

    Joeman – I recall being called a conspiracy theorist and “retarded” that day for saying the agon wouldn’t sign the extension so as to avoid the luxury tax in 2011.

  383. mick December 28th, 2010 at 7:03 pm

    why not get soria and make him a starter until mo retires….wait, wasn’t that the plan for Joba ?

  384. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    Everyone who mentions the 3 years optional waivers thing for players seems to be quoting Keith Law, but its not in the CBA or the MLB rulebook, so who knows.

    MLB should put all their waiver rules and stuff somewhere. People want to learn and know these things.

    Either way, the waivers are revocable so they could always attempt to put Joba in the minors (if such a rule exists) and if it doesnt work, no biggie.

  385. West Coast Yankee Fan December 28th, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    That’s me and yes I did say AGon would go to the Red Sox for prospects – and was promptly…well, you know.

  386. Joe S formerly of Brooklyn December 28th, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    On the subject of players getting better/not getting better – from season to season – I would request some look-backs —

    2009 offseason: Yankees got Swisher (b4 Tex). Swisher hit .219 in Chicago. This sounded idiotic. This is our first baseman?

    Early 2009 season: X. Nady falls in hole. That’s the Nady who, it seemed, had hit .330 in the NL for one of the worst teams in the league. Swisher becomes starting RF. Already, we’ve fallen off of a cliff. This is horrible; used to be Pauly out there. We’re going to win maybe 81 games.

    2010 spring training: Robby Cano is to hit 5th in the lineup. He hit .2-oh-something in 2009 with runners on base. Is this some kind of Girardi insanity?

    Early 2010 season: Mariano isn’t himself. Well, he had to get old sometime. All is lost!!!

    ALSO: I distinctly remember a number of posters on this blog saying — before April 2010 — that Brett G was not good enough to be starting LF, he was gonna be terrible, etc. There was a lot of dumping on Cashman for not expending the $ to keep Damon, etc.

    Just to be truthful + show that I am NOT picking my spots to dump on the group: At the time, I thought those points were — probably — correct. The memory I had of Damon was of him stealing 2 bases (on the same play) in the post-season. Awesome!

    [yes, yes, yes -- I remember suffering through AJB's starts in 2010, too. And I remember that Jorge was out for a good piece of '08, and that's the only year the team didn't make it to the post-season of the past 15. I can remember the unfortunate stuff, too. Don't wanna live there, tho.]

    SO: Maybe the Red Sox look better on paper. And maybe Girardi will move Cano up to 3rd in the batting order, and he’ll win the Triple Crown, and Nova will go 11-3 in relief.

    - – - – -

    One final two-pronged reminder:

    – In 2009, there were an astounding number of astonishing late-inning wins (heck, Melky had three walk-offs, if memory serves. Yes, MELKY!). What was it, 15? What happens if they lose all 15?

    – In 2010, I remember hearing (late in the year) that the NYYs had an amazing come-from-behind record. This wasn’t walk-off wins; it was the # of times they were on the losing end of the score and, by the game’s end, had turned that around.

    I can’t dredge up the number out of my brain (there’s a lot of useless crap in there, like work stuff). I seem to remember a number along the lines of 40-ish. What happens if they only win 25 of those?

    - – - – -

    Did we all expect 18-8 from Phil Hughes? Did we all think Swisher was going to raise his BA in 2010? Along about mid-season, did we all think Grandy would actually improve before the year ended?

    What happened to Grandy could happen to AJB. Whatever the walkoff thing was about in 2009 and the sustained come-from-behind thing was in 2010, it could happen again.

    Where’s the proof? We already all saw it happen.

  387. mick December 28th, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    I remember that joeman….gb and al were 2, i forget the 3rd shooter..
    ===================
    joeman, gotta go, spilling the beans or not?

  388. mick December 28th, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    rhymes with?

  389. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    went down to Fort Lauderdale for many years to watch Yankee ST……..when the starters didn’t travel to games they were either at Banana Boat Lounge or Hialeah Park Racetrack

  390. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    Currently the White Sox have the best set-up reliever in the AL in Matt Thornton, who would probably be very effective as a closer, having saved 8 out of 10 games last year. I don’t know if Buehrle would be traded, full NTC, and I’m not sure Jackson would be the answer as our 4th man, if Pettitte doesn’t return.

  391. Stoneburner December 28th, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    “The Yankees reportedly offered top catching prospect Jesus Montero in exchange for Soria last July, and the subsequent departure of Zack Greinke and David DeJesus has spawned a fresh crop of speculation about the haul Soria could bring to the already deep Royals system.”

    That should rile up some – Montero for Soria. . . .

    Fan of Scott Hairston, Jeff Keppinger, and Rauch filling the RH 4th Ofer, utility, and remaining bp arm – not sure who takes Andy’s spot – Nova should fine for a 5th guy in the rotation – kid already has a change and velo – two of the hardest to acquire in an arsenal.

  392. joeman December 28th, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    # Yankee Trader December 28th, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    Currently the White Sox have the best set-up reliever in the AL in Matt Thornton, who would probably be very effective as a closer, having saved 8 out of 10 games last year. I don’t know if Buehrle would be traded, full NTC, and I’m not sure Jackson would be the answer as our 4th man, if Pettitte doesn’t return.
    ————————————–
    isn’t he their closer this year

  393. mick December 28th, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    off to my ben and jerrys cherry garcia…go Knicks!!!!!!!

  394. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    joeman-

    I believe Thornton and on occassion Crain will close. There really aren’t many teams out there who need and/or can afford a closer like Soriano, but I mentioned earlier that perhaps if the White Sox traded off one of their higher salaried pitchers, they might make a play for Soiano

  395. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    If the yankees traded soria for montero straight up then it would prove to me that they never believed Montero was the player most scouting periodicals do.

    You don’t trade a 20 year old catcher for a guy u would use as a setup man.

  396. Brian December 28th, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    # Jerzz December 28th, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    Joba has options, but I believe he has to pass through waivers before he can be sent down. That’s what RAB said right?

    ————-

    This was discussed during the season. Because he was never sent down after having been called up, some rule made it necessary for the Yankees to send him down by a certain date in July I think so they would retain his options w/o going through waivers. At the time, many expected them to do so, simply to keep their options open (no pun intended) in future years.

    But the date passed. He was sent down. Now he has to pass through waivers.

  397. blake December 28th, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    I don’t believe the Yankees really offered Montero for Soria.

  398. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    As much as I would love to see Soria on the Yankees, having seen Mantle play, I really am excited about Jesus Montero, and agree with Carlo, that you can’t trade his potential for a set-up guy.

  399. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    This was discussed during the season. Because he was never sent down after having been called up, some rule made it necessary for the Yankees to send him down by a certain date in July I think so they would retain his options w/o going through waivers. At the time, many expected them to do so, simply to keep their options open (no pun intended) in future years.

    The rule as explained on the internet is a player has to pass through optional waivers if they are optioned 3 years after their debut, which would have been in july of 2010. Sending him down would not have had anything to do with it. If they brought him back up at any time they’d have to do the waiver thing if they sent him down.

    He still has options, whether or not they can or will option him is up to this waiver rule and how correct it is.

  400. LGY December 28th, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    That silly Montero for Soria rumor was blown up like 10 minutes after Stark reported it.

    Stark is probably the least reliable national source when it comes to Yankee news.

  401. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    Tend to agree Blake. KC would have likely jumped at that and given it says last July…….we are supposed to believe cashman thought giving up montero for soria was better than giving up nothing for wood? Far fetched. Soria is better than wood, but putting montero in the mix makes it ridiculous.

  402. LGY December 28th, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    The Yankees WITH Nova and Mitre in the rotation are the second best team in the AL.

    Improvements still to come.

  403. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    LGY – being the 2nd best team in the AL doesn’t necessarily mean u make the playoffs, unfortunately.

  404. GoYanks December 28th, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    Carlo,

    Being the best team in the AL doesn’t necessarily mean u make the playoffs, either!!

  405. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    LGY – being the 2nd best team in the AL doesn’t necessarily mean u make the playoffs, unfortunately.

    With the wild card, it pretty much does.

  406. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    Jerkface – given the unbalanced schedule, that’s not fact. Unfortunately for us, 4 of the top 8 teams in the AL play in our division. Its very possible that anaheim and texas can post very strong records feasting on seattle and oakland.

  407. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    Jerkface – given the unbalanced schedule, that’s not fact. Unfortunately for us, 4 of the top 8 teams in the AL play in our division. Its very possible that anaheim and texas can post very strong records feasting on seattle and oakland.

    The quality always rises to the top. Its easier for a good AL west or AL central team to claim best record, but its much harder for a 2nd tier team to sneak into the playoffs. As far as I know its never happened.

    The problem with the AL east the last 3 years is that there were 3 good teams. No longer the case.

  408. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    Look at the standings the last 5 years.

    2010 – the third best AL east team was better than every other team except the division winners
    2009 – No team came close to the Al East for the Wild Card
    2008 – AL east again , Angels feast on the west to claim best record
    2007 – No one able to compare to the AL east
    2006 – 2nd best team was not the red sox, this is the end of the strong AL central
    2005 – Al East
    2004 – No one comes close

    The only way being in the AL east hurts teams is if you’re not the Yankees or the Red Sox. The Jays/Orioles/Rays would have had more playoff opportunities in another league, but the East doesn’t really affect the ability for the Red Sox/Yankees to make the playoffs.

  409. Carlo December 28th, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    I guess where we differ is in our view of Tampa. I don’t see them as being on level ground with the Yankees, but given their staff, they should be a 90 win team regardless of their pen.

  410. Jerkface December 28th, 2010 at 8:09 pm

    I guess where we differ is in our view of Tampa. I don’t see them as being on level ground with the Yankees, but given their staff, they should be a 90 win team regardless of their pen.

    Their offense is really bad. But supposing they are a 90 win team, that does not affect the Yankees chances of a playoff. Most teams are going to have fairly even season series vs their unbalanced schedule opponents.

    The problem is if the Rays are better than expected and they take the wild card.

    But the Rays, Yankees, and red sox being good doesn’t mean the tigers or twins sneak into the wild card.

  411. BoJo December 28th, 2010 at 10:24 pm

    I don’t see the Rays as a 90 win team…more like 85. They will win with good pitching, and piece together a decent pen based on acquisitions of young arms from SD. They’ll win with running and get some timely hitting…BUT they lost too much talent.

    The team I would worry about is Jays..>Great young pitching, good offense, emerging young talent…and probable rebound years from a few key players.

  412. beedogs December 29th, 2010 at 6:26 am

    “BTW where are erica and trisha?”

    Trisha’s probably busy working on the ultimate off-the-cuff third grade insult; that’s all she’s good for.

  413. theoldCrow December 30th, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    A-Gon kills LHP .337 .424 .513 .937
    Crawford .256 .312 .384 .696
    Ellsbury (career) against LHP .307 .359 .393 .752
    Ortiz against LHP .222 .275 .324 .599
    Drew against LHP .208 .302 .309 .611


Sponsored by:
 

Search

    Advertisement

    Follow

    Mobile

    Read The LoHud Yankees Blog on the go by navigating to the blog on your smartphone or mobile device's browser. No apps or downloads are required.

Advertisement

Place an ad

Call (914) 694-3581