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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


AL East moves and the Hall of Fame

Posted by: Brian Heyman - Posted in Misc on Jan 01, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Hello to 2011 and to all the possibilities for the Yankees and everyone out there.

The Orioles should continue to at least be more competitive under Buck Showalter, and they should get some more power at first base now that they have agreed with Derrek Lee on a one-year deal contingent on a physical. 

And the other new transaction in the division involves the Red Sox, according to ESPN.com. It appears lefty Hideki Okajima is coming back for another season in the bullpen after a strong finish to a mostly down year. 

The writers’ Hall of Fame votes were due in by New Year’s Eve. There were 33 former players on the ballot. I voted for one, Roberto Alomar, who received 73.7 percent in the balloting last year, his first year eligible, and he needed 75 percent for baseball immortality. Yes, I know he wasn’t great with the Mets and spit once. But he was a .300 lifetime hitter, with 2,724 hits and 474 steals; batted .313 in 11 postseason series; made the All-Star team 12 straight seasons; and won 10 AL Gold Gloves at second. 

I do consider myself a hard marker when it comes to the subject. I’m old enough to have seen everybody play. But this is obviously a subjective evaluation.

I couldn’t bring myself to vote for the names associated with steroids. We are told in the instructions to also consider integrity.

There are some borderline cases that I thought hard about, although if you have to think about them, are they really Hall of Famers? That group includes Bert Blyleven – I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t get in this year, his 14th out of a possible 15 on the ballot after finishing .8 percent short last year – Jeff Bagwell and Fred McGriff. Maybe I’ll reevaluate in the coming years, but right now I don’t see it.

I’m sure there will be a good deal of support again for Barry Larkin and Jack Morris.

Besides the ones mentioned, the notable names on the ballot included: Harold Baines, Kevin Brown, John Franco, Juan Gonzalez, Al Leiter, Edgar Martinez, Tino Martinez, Don Mattingly, Mark McGwire, Dale Murphy, John Olerud, Rafael Palmeiro, Dave Parker, Tim Raines, Lee Smith, B.J. Surhoff, Alan Trammell and Larry Walker.

The results will be announced this month. So who would you vote for?

Comments

comments

 

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505 Responses to “AL East moves and the Hall of Fame”

  1. Against All Odds January 1st, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    # mick January 1st, 2011 at 11:52 am

    it looks like cashman wants to develop young pitching while running with what’s he’s got now but
    you saw when Lee was available how he jumped. if these newbies don’t pan out he will trade them as they have always done. don’t see much of a change here in that they have always overhyped their prospects only to trade them away for proven talent. it’s just the nature of the beast known as the NY Yankees, don’t see it changing much any time soon. if we get lucky with some youth , fine, but they will always go after the big FA.
    ————————————

    That’s what ppl don’t realize sure a couple young guys get a chance when in the past they wouldn’t but their chance is based on a limited window. They have to hit the ground running or out comes the talk that the “Yankees are down on *enter prospect’s name here*”

  2. Ed H. January 1st, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    Brian, I have to agree with you about the HOF voting. There are many very good players on the ballot but only one great one, Alomar. I too could not vote for the steroid guys. “Everyone else was doing it” is just not an excuse, especially when it comes to the HOF.

  3. Rich in NJ January 1st, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    “They have to hit the ground running or out comes the talk that the “Yankees are down on *enter prospect’s name here*””

    That’s the point. It’s a short-sighted, often self-defeating, way to run a baseball team, if you truly want to win the WS as often as possible, rather than just merely make the playoffs.

  4. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    When writers believe that they have to “think about it” when it comes to Blyleven and McGriff, like those having to “think about” Ron Santo, Jim Kaat and Tommy John but insist Curt Schilling or think that Kirby Puckett is a first time pick, shouldn’t be allowed to vote in the first place. I understand the complaints about Rizzuto being elected, but, why is nobody complaining about PeeWee Reese, Ross Youngs, Hack Wilson (who had one HOF type season) or Marty Marion. Ozzie Smith was a great defenser and had speed, but, that’s all. He was certainly no first time pick.

  5. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    Ozzie Smith was a great ***defender***

  6. BobbyCA January 1st, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Here is a really interesting article showing how much the Watergate prosecutor was interested in investigating
    George Steinbrenner. The arrogance of the rich sometimes to think they are above the law. Perhaps that is why his family insisted upon such a garishly large display in monument park.

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Newly released documents show the special prosecutor in the Watergate case expressed “extreme interest” in a 1970s criminal investigation of Yankees owner George Steinbrenner for illegal campaign contributions.

    In an Aug. 16, 1973 memo, FBI director Clarence M. Kelley also told the Cleveland office of the FBI to ensure that the case “receives the same, immediate and preferred handling” as others growing out of the Watergate scandal.

    Steinbrenner pleaded guilty the following year to two charges in connection with illegal corporate campaign donations to both Nixon and Democratic lawmakers and was fined $15,000. The memo was included in a 400-page release of Steinbrenner’s FBI file on Thursday. Steinbrenner died in July.

  7. Mell January 1st, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    More I look at Blyleven, the more I can’t understand how this hasn’t happened already.

    Reasons I’ve seen for Bagwell not getting votes are just deplorable.

  8. Against All Odds January 1st, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    # Rich in NJ January 1st, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    “They have to hit the ground running or out comes the talk that the “Yankees are down on *enter prospect’s name here*””

    That’s the point. It’s a short-sighted, often self-defeating, way to run a baseball team, if you truly want to win the WS as often as possible, rather than just merely make the playoffs.
    ——————————————————————

    Yea it is short sighted and speaks to how things haven’t really changed. Now someone on here will point out the grow of the system. No one is ignoring the fact that the farm has taken a step forward but the philosophy of the boss is still felt throughout the organization.

  9. deleonj January 1st, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    When writers believe that they have to “think about it” when it comes to Blyleven and McGriff, like those having to “think about” Ron Santo, Jim Kaat and Tommy John but insist Curt Schilling or think that Kirby Puckett is a first time pick, shouldn’t be allowed to vote in the first place. I understand the complaints about Rizzuto being elected, but, why is nobody complaining about PeeWee Reese, Ross Youngs, Hack Wilson (who had one HOF type season) or Marty Marion. Ozzie Smith was a great defenser and had speed, but, that’s all. He was certainly no first time pick.
    _________________
    I feel your pain. It puzzels med someof the players in ta hall and yet the names you mention have been waiting for years. Kirby Puckett first ballot? he was a great player and i wouldnt have cared if he was in -just like i dont care now- but he should not have been first ballot. Other examples come to mind too.
    And the whole ‘integrity’ clause in there is so stupid. There are racists, women beaters, etc. in tha hall and for some reason that part is important in some cases…

  10. Against All Odds January 1st, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    Ed H. January 1st, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    I too could not vote for the steroid guys. “Everyone else was doing it” is just not an excuse, especially when it comes to the HOF.

    ————————————————-

    The Hall of Fame isn’t exactly heaven with some of the guys that are already in there.

  11. BobbyCA January 1st, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    PATIENCE IS FOR LOSERS!

    Theo Epstein had a loaded farm system in 2010 but instead of patiently building from within he aggressively signed Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford and others to instantaneously position the Red Sox to be the favorites in 2011 along with Philly.

    Compare that with the “patience” of Brian Cashman; who on January 1st has a three man rotation, no eighth inning guy, no fourth outfielder, no bench and no answer.

    Of course the aforementioned plea for “patience” is really internal spin that means this. Let’s try to fool the fans into thinking this has been a successful off-season and that this is a strategy that makes sense. And pay no attention to those flames Romans.

    Anyone seen my fiddle?

  12. Willis January 1st, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    I know the sky isn’t falling, but it sure seems like there Cashman had a plan B if Lee didn’t end up in the Bronx. The Sox look great on paper right now. I know things always don’t go as planned or as they look on paper. But look at the Yankees right now, pretty pitiful in my opinion…

  13. joeman January 1st, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    looks like what you see with the roster right now is what your getting, maybe add a RP and a possible utility player

  14. 108 stitches January 1st, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    I’ll never understand why Bert Blyleven and Tommy John have been denied. They labored for years for less than quality teams yet managed to put up the numbers they did.
    There is no justice if somebody like Schilling makes the HOF before they do.

  15. raymagnetic January 1st, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Edgar Martinez is a HOF IMO. The guy was just a monster with the stick. He’s 43rd all time in OPS+. That’s a HOF to me.

  16. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    If they select a lifetime DH like Edgar Martinez, they’d better come up with a good reason for keeping Harold Baines and Al Oliver out.

  17. Rich in NJ January 1st, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    “Of course the aforementioned plea for “patience” is really internal spin that means this. Let’s try to fool the fans into thinking this has been a successful off-season and that this is a strategy that makes sense. And pay no attention to those flames Romans.”

    But they don’t give out rings for the winners of the offseason. Many of the best moves are made at midseason after GMs have the opportunity to assess their teams needs. Sometimes in-house solutions obviate the needs for moves, and often demonstrate that sometimes the best moves are those not made.

    I’ll wait until Sept/Oct before reaching any firm conclusions.

  18. Mell January 1st, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    “Edgar Martinez is a HOF IMO. The guy was just a monster with the stick. He’s 43rd all time in OPS+. That’s a HOF to me”

    Agreed Ray. Tremendous hitter. He’ll be the acid test for DH’s. Way I look at it is that if there was no DH, he would have played in the field and been pretty bad it while still being a great hitter. However, the HOF is littered with guys who fit that criteria. Harmon Killebrew would have been a DH if they had it in the 60′s. Willie McCovey and Willie Stargell probably would have to. Plenty of other examples beyond those. Martinez should not be penalized for playing in the DH era, IMO.

  19. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    How does a guy like this get in the HOF…

    http://www.baseball-reference......ro01.shtml

  20. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    And this guy doesn’t?

    http://www.baseball-reference......le01.shtml

  21. michaels07 January 1st, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    Roger Maris, for a legitimate holder of the single season homerun record.

  22. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    How is Al Oliver not equally qualified to be in the HOF as Martinez?

    http://www.baseball-reference......al01.shtml

  23. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    Maris, as great an outfielder as he was, is not a HOFer.

  24. Mell January 1st, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    GB:

    Just did a quick look on Youngs. Looks like he was considered an outstanding player by the standards of the era with a career OBP of .400 and OPS+ of 130. Similar to Thurman Munson, it seems he died while in his prime.

  25. Mell January 1st, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    “How is Al Oliver not equally qualified to be in the HOF as Martinez?”

    Martinez had about 70 points in career OBP and 60 in slugging percentage over Oliver. I thought Oliver was terrific, but he wasn’t in Martinez’s class as a hitter.

  26. West Coast Yankee Fan January 1st, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    I would never support the election of anyone who admitted to steroid use or was proven to be a steroid user. That is a slam dunk as far as I am concerned.

    If I had a vote, it would be for Robbie Alomar. He deserves it.

  27. icebird753 January 1st, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    Bring back Chad.

  28. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    Oliver put up his numbers in some of the toughest parks in baseball. Martinez in the Seattle Pinball Stadium.

  29. CCBiggs January 1st, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    “More I look at Blyleven, the more I can’t understand how this hasn’t happened already.”

    Blyleven compiled a lot of big numbers, but he was never thought of as one of the top pitchers when he played. His carrer record is only slightly over .500 (287-250). I would not vote for him.

  30. West Coast Yankee Fan January 1st, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    CCBiggs – Blyleven has gained momentum only because of the popularity of sabermetrics.

  31. Mell January 1st, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    “Oliver put up his numbers in some of the toughest parks in baseball. Martinez in the Seattle Pinball Stadium”

    True, but he also had 1200 more plate appearances than Martinez to arrive at basically the same production.

  32. bartap January 1st, 2011 at 3:06 pm

    If you have to think hard about Bagwell or Larkin, you’re doing something wrong.

    My hypothetical ballot:

    Alomar, Blyleven, Larkin, Raines, Bagwell, Martinez, Trammell, McGwire, Walker

  33. West Coast Yankee Fan January 1st, 2011 at 3:06 pm

    Courtesy of Jayson Stark – ESPN.com:

    “Using WAR rankings for pitchers, Blyleven ranks 13th in the history of baseball — ahead of names such as Christy Mathewson and Bob Gibson”.

    “Among full-time starters, he’s 21st all-time in Win Probability Added”.

    “He’s No. 18 all-time on Lee Sinins’ Runs Saved Above Average list. And no less an authority than Bill James once combed through every one of Blyleven’s losses and no-decisions, game-by-game, to prove it was mostly bad luck that led to his “failure” to win 300″.

  34. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 1st, 2011 at 2:50 pm
    I would never support the election of anyone who admitted to steroid use or was proven to be a steroid user. That is a slam dunk as far as I am concerned
    ———————————————————————————————-

    So how would you feel when you find out about the ones that made it in that were steroid users?

  35. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    REPOST/SUMMARIZED

    BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    “perhaps the yankees could develop a hybrid approach where they spend freely on free agents on offense, but invest their money in development with pitching.”
    ================
    Randy–

    You are suggesting things that are already underway and have been for three years.

    Why do you think the Yankees have focused signings and drafts on power arms and catchers? Everyone will admit that the Yankee farm system is stocked with talent in those areas and a bit weaker in other positions.

    Around 2006, I recall Cashman talking on some radio program about changes he wanted to make…which included investing more in International FA signings, and development. He has done that, as evidenced by signings like Aceves, Pena, Montero, Sanchez, Mesa, and many more. He also instructed the US player draft to pursue high ceiling prospects as opposed to the mid-level talent coming out of college ranks. (Players that are ok and closer to big leagues.) So your hope that they do this is already being done.

    Also, I recall Cashman again on a show in 2008 (?) talking about how he needed to re-evaluate the pitching strategy. Having a few Twins-type pitchers (pitch to contact) like Lieber and Wang was ineffective in short series, according to his analysis. Power pitching wins play-offs is what I recall him saying. To that end, he wanted to acquire or develop pitchers like Sabathia and Burnett, and Hughes and Chamberlain. Also, he instructed his player development staff to go after pitchers with power arms and high ceilings like Brackman, Chamberlain, Cole, and Betances.

    The difference in the strategy and the actual results come from the need to bridge where the Yankees were to where Cashman wants to take them. He was willing to pay big dollars for power pitchers (Sabathia and Burnett) and go after aces like Lee when available, and use them as anchors until the prospects fully develop.

    Your entire argument about how the Twins approach is better entirely misses the mark that Cashman is aiming to win World Championships while the Twins are just trying to make the play-offs with consistency, and thus make money.

    (Every now and then, the Twins will have a power arm (Liriano for example) that might actually lead them to a WC, but their model is not to spend the money necessary to go for it every year.)

    Now, if you want to argue that Cashman’s assessment about power arms being the key to winning play-off series is wrong, you can do so. I would tend to agree with Cashman, but could respect an argument that attempts to prove otherwise with real data and analytical support.

  36. Pat M. January 1st, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    GB…..I was looking over the 61 Yanks stats and I think for all the incredible numbers they posted the most remarkable stat was Mantle hitting into only 2 DP’s in over 600 plus plate appearances…..Even when one extracts the walks that is just incredible for a guy that hit seeds just about every time he made contact…….That was really my first year of watching and understanding baseball as I began to play all the time……I must have seen 20 games that season at The Stadium and of course on WPIX in black & white…….

  37. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    CCBiggs January 1st, 2011 at 3:01 pm
    “More I look at Blyleven, the more I can’t understand how this hasn’t happened already.”

    Blyleven compiled a lot of big numbers, but he was never thought of as one of the top pitchers when he played. His carrer record is only slightly over .500 (287-250). I would not vote for him.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    I thought that wins were pretty useless to decide who was good? Blyleven also played with some average to bad teams for a large part of his career. There’s a pretty good amount of HOFers that thought he was good enough.

  38. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    One other point to Randy…

    Another part of Cashman’s strategy was to stop going after older FAs who would clog up the roster.

    He didn’t want to re-sign ARod when ARod used his out clause.

    He didn’t want to go longer than 3 years for Jeter, one year for AP, or 2 years for Mo. He didn;t want to go 4 years for Posada (but the Mets forced his hand).

    I suspect he would have been much more aggressive going after Lee under in the olden days under George….but wasn’t going to go crazy this year and blow the market away for Lee.

    So in fact, Cashman is starting to move the team to a model that puts more emphasis on internal development (and especially of power pitchers)…which will eventually give the team top of the rotation power arms at good contract levels.

    That model is even better than the Twins model.

  39. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Happy new year’s Pat. Hope all is well with you. Another thing that stands out in that ’61 season for Maris….0 intentional walks. Loved watching Maris play, though. I was able to catch the CBS Saturday and Sunday games (mostly the Yankees), along with going to Detroit, Chicago and Cleveland to see them play…each place at least three games. Also the White Sox and Tigers were on WJR and WGN tv, too. Maris was an absolutely spectacular right fielder. Right there with Colavito (until he moved to left) and Kaline. Maris was also a terrific center fielder.

    Mantle’s speed was legendary. The only time I ever heard him in an interview that sounded like he was bragging was when he told Costas that if he had known that hitting 40 homers and stealing 40 bases would become such a big deal, he would have done it a few times. hard to believe that he was only caught stealing 38 times and safe 153 times…about 85%. If you ever see the ’52 WS against the Dodgers, watch him beat out the medium speed bouncer to 2nd. He was crossing the bag before the 2nd baseman could get the throw off. The greatest package of talent in baseball history…according to Ted Williams and Ty Cobb, who saw a few decent players in their time.

  40. West Coast Yankee Fan January 1st, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 1st, 2011 at 2:50 pm
    I would never support the election of anyone who admitted to steroid use or was proven to be a steroid user. That is a slam dunk as far as I am concerned
    ———————————————————————————————-

    So how would you feel when you find out about the ones that made it in that were steroid users?

    ******************

    Pretty bad. It would reflect poorly on the HOF and it’s credibility and on those who just missed but never cheated. If conclusive proof ever came to light, I would support rescinding their membership. There is ample precedent for that in all walks of life.

  41. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    There’s plenty of proof that the HOF has speed freaks admitted. Their own words. Mantle, mays, Ford, Aaron all admitted to knowingly using speed to get them on the field. Throw ‘em out of the HOF. Ball players have been using speed since they brought the stuff back from Europe after WWI.

  42. West Coast Yankee Fan January 1st, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    I don’t think speed enhances performance in the same way that PED’s do. Staying awake and being alert is not the same as gaining additional distance on home runs or the other physical advantages that are gained. You have to draw the line somewhere, you have to let kids know it’s not ok to intentionally cheat to gain a competitive advantage.

  43. Pat M. January 1st, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    GB…..I just love it when the topoic drifts off to The Mick or The Rog or any era in Yankee History….At least the young LoHuders have to opportunity to get some first hand accounts on the greatness of their ballculb and thses great players……So GB, how fast was the Babe’s hands ????

  44. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    If speed gets players on the field or keeps them on the field it’s an enhancer. are you saying that only cheating a some is ok?

  45. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    Ruth’s hands were quicker than Linda Lovelace’s tongue. Pat, I could spend days watching Mantle and Maris playing baseball. For al of Maris’ homers and fielding plays, the 2 I remember best were Maris jumping up and falling into the right field stands in 1961 to steal a humer away from Kenny Hunt of the angels (another of the young talents, along with Lee Thomas. that the Yankees traded away because they had no room for them. The other was the play against the Giants in Game #7 on Mays double in 1962 when he cut off the double and he and Richardson froze Matty Alou at third. Big because Maris and Richardson hid the fact that Maris’ arm was so bad that he couldn’t throw. That’s why Richardon would go out into right field to catch the replays on normal flies.

  46. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    1961 to steal a ***humer*** away from Kenny Hunt

    That should be ***HOMER***. Too much Linda Lovelace on my mind.

  47. grouchonyy January 1st, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    I’d vote for
    Alomar
    Blyleven
    Bagwell
    Raines (the second best lead off man in baseball who had the misfortune to play at the same time as the best)

  48. Patrick January 1st, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    I think you have to ignore the steroid issue when voting for hall of fame. The entire era was steeped in it. Do you really think all steroid users have been outed? If the answer is no then you have to either ignore it or vote for nobody that played during the steroid years. Steroid users that have been caught or admitted to using dont deserve to get in but those that haven’t been caught do?

  49. Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    On Jeopardy last night, there was a question about Babe Ruth – that he went to the Yankees in 1920. Talk about forever young. That’s 90 years ago. Ninety. And yet whenever I (and I’m sure most) picture The Babe, he’s always at that perfect age.

  50. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    UGLY, UGLY Gator Bowl game. Miss. State is hammering Michigan State.

  51. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    Pat M

    If you haven’t read the latest Munson book I think you would enjoy it.

    Some here need to read the part where Munson talks about the effect of catching has on hitting. If they did they might understand why Posada had a rough year at the plate.

    Munsons knees and legs were so bad it robbed him of his ability to drive the ball.

    The ones that worry about Posada as DH need to understand the effect of not catching will have on his bat.

    Even though you know the outcome of the book it still is a bittersweet read.

  52. Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Off-topic.

    New car update.

    I’m 99% sure it’s the VW Tiguan. FWD or AWD?????

  53. m1kew January 1st, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Hi to all – This is off-topic but maybe some of you can make a suggestion or two. I am looking to add to the Yankee blogs I read. Currently I read “Blogging the Bombers”, Joel Sherman’s “Hardball”; “Pinstriped Posts”; “Pinstriped Bible”; Jack Curry on YES; “bronxbanterblog”; “River Ave. Blues”; “It’s About the Money”; “The Captain’s Blog” and of course this blog and Pete Abe’s blog. Ialso read “MLB Trade Rumors”. Thanks.

  54. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 4:15 pm
    On Jeopardy last night, there was a question about Babe Ruth – that he went to the Yankees in 1920. Talk about forever young. That’s 90 years ago. Ninety. And yet whenever I (and I’m sure most) picture The Babe, he’s always at that perfect age.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Doreen, few [people have seen or remember seeing pix of Babe Ruth when he was a slender pitcher and slugger in 1920. All they ever show are the pot-bellied old man photos. Possibly the most perfect all around ball player in history. Could have been a HOF pitcher.

  55. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 1st, 2011 at 3:34 pm
    MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 1st, 2011 at 2:50 pm
    I would never support the election of anyone who admitted to steroid use or was proven to be a steroid user. That is a slam dunk as far as I am concerned
    ———————————————————————————————-

    So how would you feel when you find out about the ones that made it in that were steroid users?

    ******************

    Pretty bad. It would reflect poorly on the HOF and it’s credibility and on those who just missed but never cheated. If conclusive proof ever came to light, I would support rescinding their membership. There is ample precedent for that in all walks of life.

    ———————————————————————————

    With as poorly as the testing was and how only just a few were exposed there is no way they will keep out players that used.

    Just because some admitted to using they are far from the only ones that used.

  56. Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    GB7 -

    How old was Babe in 1920?

    It’s hard to imagine someone being so excellent both pitching and hitting.

  57. Bx is Burning January 1st, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    GB-

    Just out of curiosity, how much do the voters factor in championships? (…or perhaps, how much do you think they should?) Puckett – of course – had 2, and so did the Giants’ Young.

    BTW, the second of your ‘baseball reference’ links doesn’t work. Who were you talking about?

  58. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 4:16 pm
    Pat M

    If you haven’t read the latest Munson book I think you would enjoy it.

    Some here need to read the part where Munson talks about the effect of catching has on hitting. If they did they might understand why Posada had a rough year at the plate.

    Munsons knees and legs were so bad it robbed him of his ability to drive the ball.

    The ones that worry about Posada as DH need to understand the effect of not catching will have on his bat.

    Even though you know the outcome of the book it still is a bittersweet read.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    He lost a lot of his power, except when he needed it, he could reach down and find it. Remember that monsterous blast into the back of the Yankee bullpen in the 8th inning of the 1978 ALCS off of Doug Bird?

  59. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 4:15 pm
    On Jeopardy last night, there was a question about Babe Ruth – that he went to the Yankees in 1920. Talk about forever young. That’s 90 years ago. Ninety. And yet whenever I (and I’m sure most) picture The Babe, he’s always at that perfect age.

    ————————————————————————

    Isn’t that what you think of yourself?

    I know I do. Still in my 20s and can do it all. :lol:

  60. West Coast Yankee Fan January 1st, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    If speed gets players on the field or keeps them on the field it’s an enhancer. are you saying that only cheating a some is ok?

    ************

    I don’t see taking uppers is on the same level as mark McGwire’s steroid use. I don’t agree with that definition of enhancing. It doesn’t improve performance in the same way, as a matter of fact uppers makes you feel jittery and like crap.

  61. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    GB7

    They mentioned that in the book. He said he didn’t know where that power came from.

  62. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 4:22 pm
    GB7 -

    How old was Babe in 1920?

    It’s hard to imagine someone being so excellent both pitching and hitting

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Doreen, I’m thinking that he had just turned 25 in February of 1920.

  63. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    GB7 -

    All this talk about PED’s, but, these sports writers seem to ignore the fact that clubs use to put out bowls of “greenies” for the players to get up for a game, especially a day game after a night game, or coming off the road and being exausted.

    This lead to many players turning to booze to come down after the game, and several battled with alcoholism because of it.

    If sports writers of today were voting players not to get into the HOF, due to character issues, some great ball players from years ago would never had made it.

  64. Vineyard Yankee January 1st, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    Patrick:

    Now that you mention it I believe that Bonds was blackballed after he played out his last contract with the Giants. He still had good stats 28 HR’s in less than 500 AB’s and couldn’t even get an offer, not even as a DH.

    My guess is part of that had to do with his poor attitude towards his fellow players, somewhat of a malcontent.

  65. West Coast Yankee Fan January 1st, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    Bottom line is that intentionally taking steroids to play better than another is not what athletics should be and HOF rules state clearly to consider integrity. To me, it’s an easy decision.

    Life is linear and things change. One does not go back and adjust the past, what’s done is done. But one does enforce a new paradigm in the present.

  66. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    It’s hard to imagine someone being so excellent both pitching and hitting.
    ++++++++++++++++
    Supposedly, others that could have done it include John Olerud, Dave Winfield, and Stan Musial.

  67. Vineyard Yankee January 1st, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    WCYF:

    It doesn’t improve performance in the same way, as a matter of fact uppers makes you feel jittery and like crap.

    ===================

    Kind of like when I have too many shots of expresso ? ? ? LOL !

  68. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 4:25 pm
    GB7

    They mentioned that in the book. He said he didn’t know where that power came from.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    His last years, he was much like Posada. he couldn’t throw and he was losing his bat because he just stayed beat up. He had made a remark that he was going to play longer, but, his catching days were just about over.

  69. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Al–You can add Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker as players who would not have gotten in…for supposedly fixing games.

  70. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    GB7 -

    When you think of the dead balls they used in the 20′s, the fact the parks were much bigger, it’s a wonder players like Ruth ever managed to hit so many HR’s. If they’d been using the live baseballs of today, with the shorter fences, Ruth might have hit 100 HR’s.

  71. Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Maine Yankee -

    Oh, yeah. I’m still 26-36 in my mind. ;) (Heck even 46!)

    I just take off my glasses when I look in the mirror. :lol:

  72. Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    BoJo

    A very short list. :)

  73. Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    I’m wondering, though, if more could do it? Maybe not at an elite level, but major league?

  74. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    AL, that was the clubhouses dirty not so little secret. Two pots of coffee labeled “Leaded” and “Unleaded”. The writers knew it, the players knew it and all of baseball knew it. If people think that stuff didn’t help you stay on the field, they don’t know what they’re talking about. They’re the same sanctimonious fools, like the writers that condone that but yammer on and on about steroids. If it gets you back on the field, it helps you…period.

  75. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    BoJo -

    Exactly, that’s why when some sports writer of today puts himself above looking at the numbers a player has put up, and denies him a HOF vote on character.

    And anyone that does not believe greenies help a players performance are nuts. If a player is exausted, and too tired to play well, and he takes uppers, that is a form of PED.

    Some of the elite bloggers can’t seem to understand that fact, but, it was players from that era that relayed that info to me years ago, and I trust what they said over some blogger thinking they know better.

  76. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 4:30 pm
    MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 4:25 pm
    GB7

    They mentioned that in the book. He said he didn’t know where that power came from.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    His last years, he was much like Posada. he couldn’t throw and he was losing his bat because he just stayed beat up. He had made a remark that he was going to play longer, but, his catching days were just about over.

    ————————————————————————————————-

    That was the point he was coming to just before his death.

    When he played in the field or at DH his hitting improved.

    I remember his last season and it wasn’t hard to see the pain he was in.

  77. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Doreen–

    I’m trying to recall others…for example, the recent Marlins LHP who was traded to Detroit–Dontrelle Willis/

    Also, Mel Stottlemyre was a great athlete and decent hitter….a few pitchers like Rich Rhoden, Don Drysdale, Bob Gibson, and Tom Seaver may have been abnle to do so.

    THe recent Red Sox prospect Casey Kelly supposedly has the talent for both…

  78. Joe from Long Island January 1st, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Happy New Year, all –

    1. Bottom line, I think steroid users should have that taken into considertion, but should not automatically exclude players. Bonds had a pretty great career before we think he started using. As GB wisely points out, a lot of greats that give us fond memories used speed – what’s the difference? However, the HOF should acknowledge the steroid era – it is a museum, after all – and let the fan make up his/her own mind. Let the facts speak for themselves.

    2. GB – I’m not NEARLY as old as you, so I never had the pleasure of seeing Mantle and Maris play while in their NY primes. The stories are truly amazing. Just great baseball players. Mark my word, years from now, we will be talking about Jeter, Alex, Mariano in the same way. These guys are all truly great baseball players. I think of that every time I go to the Stadium.

    3. Doreen – go with the AWD. Yeah, it’ll cost you in fewer mpg, but in bad conditions it’s well worth it. I’ve had my Audi quattro for 14 years coming up, and it’s been more than a few occasions where I’ve felt it’s helped me out. In the right/wrong instance, you’ll swear it pays for itself.

  79. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Doreen, maybe we’ll find out when the great Casey Kelly gets to the big leagues.

  80. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    GB7

    I wonder if Ripken would have the games played record without help?

    I don’t know that he used greenies put would expect he had to in order to play that many in a row.

  81. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    Al–

    I hear ya. If a practice was widely accepted among players at that time and not specifically outlawed by baseball regulations, I find it hard to judge players after the fact.

    Going forward, if players are found using PEDs that are banned, they should not be allowed in the HOF–or perhaps the ban they get from baseball is sufficient punishment. I am not sure which way I would lean on this yet.

  82. Joe from Long Island January 1st, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    I read Mary Appell’s bio of Munson last year, and Munson knew he couldn’t catch anymore. Between his knees and his bad shoulder (why he couldn’t throw nearly as well as he used to), he was in constant pain.

    I agree with others, above, that I expect Posada to have a pretty decent year at bat if his catching is limited to emergency use only.

  83. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    Doreen

    Many pro athletes were multi sport stars in HS so it really isn’t hard to imagine one being good in several aspects of the game.

    Many MLB pitchers played somewhere else in HS and college.

  84. MoRings42 January 1st, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    McGriff was only 7 shy of 500 HR’s… Take a look at that career HR list.. everyone (who is eligible) in front of him (and a few behind) besides the roiders are in the HOF..

    Are the writers suggesting he did roids? I’ve never heard his name mentioned.

    I’d vote for him, Alomar and Larkin.. No to everyone else.. Who did Al Leiter and Jon Franco have to pay to get on that list? lol Anyone that votes for those guys should be automatically stripped of their voting power.

  85. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    BoJo -

    Don Drysdale was such a good hitter, he was used as a pinch hitter on a regular basis. 1965 was his best year, batting .300

  86. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    Joe

    I think Munson played at times when he shouldn’t have to the detriment of his long term health.

  87. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    Maine, there’s a lot of Thurman Munson in Jorge Posada and far as running the game and being the real clubhouse policeman. He has always been the defacto team captain, I think. his only problem was that he didn’t pull punches and personal feelings play no part. he has his friends and he has his team mates, but, there doesn’t seem to be anyone ignored. Look at some of the head cheerleaders when Rodriguez hit #1600 and when Jackson hit his third homer in the ’77 series….Munson.

  88. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    I could imagine DD playing 1B when not pitching. I did see him hit several times…great power and a superb athlete. Gibson and Seaver were pretty good too…

    I once watched Stott go 5 for 5 against the Senators. I think one was an inside the park homer too.

  89. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    Smokey Joe Wood also played both pitching and OF…as did George Sisler…

    Of course, none of them put up the pitching numbers that Nick Swisher has compiled! :-)

  90. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    I also recall watching Rocky Colavito pitching for Yankees once. Incredible arm.

  91. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Big Al

    If the Yankees got Zambrano as Pat M suggests he could DH on the days he didn’t pitch. :lol:

    I think he has beeen used as a pinch hitter for the Cubs.

  92. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Joe, until guys like Pat M., Randy and other old geezers fade away, nobody will near Mantle in their hearts. Like Jeter and Rodriguez, just so much talent. I think the thing with Mantle was the promise of what might have been. It only took 11 years for him to become the idol of New Yorkers and replace DiMaggio. All because he screwed up on the field one day in 1960 and loafed down the first base line.

  93. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    Get Zambrano and he could pinch hit for Sabathia.

  94. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    BTW–I remember reading a post or an article last year that said the number of ballplayers taking prescriptions for ADD had increased significantly…and the medication prescribed was an amphetamine. Does having a prescription make it all right?

    If the item is prescribed, it seems to get a pass from the Commissioner’s office. So, if Andy Pettitte had a doctor who prescribed HGH for him before the substance was banned, would that have been okay?…does that make it any more all right than others taking the substance?

    My point is that there is a huge gray area before the recent ban on PEDs that imo makes it impossible to include the issue as a consideration when voting for the HOF for players of the recent era.

  95. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    BoJo -

    That’s a hard one. How does one separate what a player did prior to HGH from his overall numbers.

    Several years ago, when HGH was the subject, I remember viewing a show that had 5 doctors on the panel discussing what affects HGH had on performance. The general consensus was this; taking HGH would help players heal from injuries quicker, thus get back on the field in shorter time following an injury, and if a HR hitter were taking HGH, he might add 20′ to the flight of the ball. So I imagine if we took all the HR’s hit by A-Rod, as an example, and reduced to feet by 20′, we could deduct those HR’s from his total number.

    It was also agreed, if a batter was not a good, or great hitter, taking HGH would not make you one. There are a number of players that have either admitted to taking HGH, or were caught, that were not good players do to taking HGH.

    Jason Giambi took HGH, but he never hit the total HR’s of others that did, so again, HGH might help great players do better, but, HGH does not make average players great, IMO.

  96. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    GB–

    Mantle loafed in 1960? Are you sure of the year? I thought that he was accepted as the star by then…

  97. Howe Farr January 1st, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    1996 and 1998 world series winner Tim Raines. Look up his number, the guy should have been a hall of famer a while ago, he is that good

  98. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Colavito also pitched in 1 game for Cleveland. 5.2 innings, 1 win, 0 losses. 1 hit, 0 runs, 5 walks ans 2 strikeouts. Picked up the win while pitching with the yanks.

    Imagine that Cleveland outfield in ’57 and part of ’58 with Gene Woodling in left, Colavito in right and Maris in center?

  99. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    Maine -

    Interesting thought on the Z-Man, but, even if he were that good a hitter, no manager would risk injury to a pitcher batting, unless he needed to, playing in a NL city. I’ll have to look up his numbers.

  100. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    GB7

    If Arod has hit 1600 he must still be using steroids. :lol:

    I have watched Posada during moments like you describe and he is fully involved.

    Watch him at HP for a walk off and you’ll see Posada at the front of the pack.

    At times in the scrum to catch the helmet when it’s thown in the air.

  101. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    Al–

    Another issue is where does one stop the use of advances in medicine and training with respect to using those advances in sports.

    If superior surgical procedures also allow players to return from injuries that were once career ending, how is that different than using HGH to recover?

    If a substance like HGH is available and not banned to the public (even if a prescription is required), why should it not be available for use in sports? I remember the monster year Yaz had in 1967 solely because he went on a weight training program to pump up his power. Why should that advance in knowledge and approaches be legal and HGH not be?

    I really don’t get the outrage if the item was not specifically banned by baseball rules or an illegal substance.

  102. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Maine–after the Wang injury, it will be a very cold day in hell before the Yankees purposely send up a pitcher to hit.

  103. tyanksfan36 January 1st, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    I just got back from my grandparents house, I bought my grandma a Jeter calendar for her birthday, she said she is happy they re-signed him because if they hadn’t she wouldn’t root for the Yankees anymore. We haven’t told her yet that this coming season is Posada’s last but since he is getting old she’ll probably get over it easier.

  104. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    The Yankees have been so very fortunate over the years, to not only have great players, but great leaders on the field as well.

    Me, I don’t care if A-Rod hits 900 HR’s, or Jeter gets 4,000 hits, my Yankees, in my heart, will always be Mantle and Munson.

  105. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    oJo January 1st, 2011 at 4:59 pm
    GB–

    Mantle loafed in 1960? Are you sure of the year? I thought that he was accepted as the star by then…

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Yeah, I’m sure. Mantle was only loved when he got a hit. maris was the fan favorite. In an early August game in ’60, Maris got a single and took off for 2nd base as Mantle hit a roller to second base. maris slid in hard and the 2nd baseman kneed him in the ribs, cracking a couple. Mantle stopped running about halfway to first. He was booed loud and long. Stengel took him out of the game and benched him the next day. He apologized to Stengel and to the team, one player at a time. Then he made a public apology to the fans in a story the next game. Maris was leading in homers and doubles and near .300. He wasn’t able to swing the way he had after missing almost 3 weeks and lost the homer title to Mantle 40-39. After the article appeared, Mantle got a standing ovation in his 1st at bat and was never booed again.

  106. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    tyanksfan36 January 1st, 2011 at 5:08 pm
    I just got back from my grandparents house, I bought my grandma a Jeter calendar for her birthday, she said she is happy they re-signed him because if they hadn’t she wouldn’t root for the Yankees anymore. We haven’t told her yet that this coming season is Posada’s last but since he is getting old she’ll probably get over it easier.

    ——————————————————————-

    I guess I missed the press conference where he announced this is his last year.

    It is easy to speculate that it will be but if he has success as a DH could he come back for another year?

  107. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    AL–

    I loved Mantle and Munson and Maris…but I would have to put ARod in top 4 of all time Yankees, Mo in top 6, and Jeter in top 10 or 12. And if he continues to play well, Cano in top 15.

    In fact, I think we are looking at a team with 5 or 6 all-time great Yankkes. From this team, I would have Cano (possibly) as my 2B (over Lazzeri and Gordpn), Jeter as SS, ARod as 3B, Mo as closer, Sabathia and Pettitte on starting staff (maybe–tough call).

    And the 96-2000 team will always be special to me as well.

  108. West Coast Yankee Fan January 1st, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    AL, that was the clubhouses dirty not so little secret. Two pots of coffee labeled “Leaded” and “Unleaded”. The writers knew it, the players knew it and all of baseball knew it. If people think that stuff didn’t help you stay on the field, they don’t know what they’re talking about. They’re the same sanctimonious fools, like the writers that condone that but yammer on and on about steroids. If it gets you back on the field, it helps you…period.

    ******************

    If it helped them get/stay on the field by being more awakethat is one thing. Taking steroids to gain a physical advantage over others is entirely different IMO.

  109. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 5:06 pm
    GB7

    If Arod has hit 1600 he must still be using steroids.

    I have watched Posada during moments like you describe and he is fully involved.

    Watch him at HP for a walk off and you’ll see Posada at the front of the pack.

    At times in the scrum to catch the helmet when it’s thown in the air.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    600 or 1600? What’s the difference? both are a bunch.

    I knew that I shouldn’t allow “Killer” help me with this.

  110. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    GB–thanks for the story! Just before my time (1964)

  111. Gary January 1st, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    33 players on the ballot and Brian voted for one. There is hard marking and then there is being a bit over the top.

  112. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    So, cheating only depends on the level? That’s BS. If they both give you an edge and you think only one is cheating, you’re screwed up. If one is cheating, both are cheating. Personally, I don’t think that there is that much of an edge either way.

  113. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    any time, BoJo

  114. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    GB7

    You didn’t think I was going to let you get away with a typo did you?

    It must be the after effects of the celebration you and Killer had last night. :lol:

  115. tyanksfan36 January 1st, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    MaineYankee

    Its not technically his last year, but if he doesn’t do well, which I’m not predicting, I actually think he will have a good year, then I don’t see them bringing him back unless there are no other good DH options. Cashman never has anything good to say about Posada. I hope he comes back after this coming season because he is one of my favorites.

  116. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    GB7 -

    You letting “Killer” use the computer again? The last time he was posting, he never had one word spelled wrong. Maybe you need to sit back and dictate, and let “Killer” type. Unless he’s already gotten into the beer supply.

  117. Gary January 1st, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    Cuse is sending the Dommers back to South Bend with a big LOSS. Carrier dome is a big advantage

  118. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    Joe Gordon’s greatest contribution to the Yankees was being traded to Cleveland for Allie Reynolds in 1947.

  119. 86w183 January 1st, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    How the hell can anyone take a stand against steroid users under the “integrity” clause and then vote for someone who spat in the face of an umpire? It’s hypocrisy to the nth level.

    Of course Juan Marichal tried to kill Johnny Roseboro with a baseball bat and he’s in Cooperstown.

    So Bryan, please explain your definition of integrity. Taking substances (that your sport does not even ban) to try and be a better player is unacceptable, but spitting in the fact of others and attacking someone with a bat IS forgivable?

  120. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    Alright maine and AL. It’s ok for me to pick on “Killer” but, not you guys. Now you’ve hurt his feelings.

  121. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    GB7 -

    Oh yeh, The Chief, a great pitcher.

  122. Gary January 1st, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    Allie Reynolds 2 no hits in one season, one of the bigger highlights in Yankeee history that doesn’t get much recognition.

  123. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    GB7 -

    If we hurt his feelings, I’ll bet a little free time out tonight with his ladies will perk him up.

  124. West Coast Yankee Fan January 1st, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    So, cheating only depends on the level? That’s BS. If they both give you an edge and you think only one is cheating, you’re screwed up. If one is cheating, both are cheating. Personally, I don’t think that there is that much of an edge either way.

    ****************

    Conceptually, driving when impaired is different than driving under the influence and second degree murder is not the same as first degree murder.

    IN society there are different penalties for different levels of egregious behavior. My position is that taking uppers does not rise to the level of taking steroids. Both in terms of their effect upon performance and their long term effect on the health of the players taking them.

  125. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    tyanksfan36 January 1st, 2011 at 5:21 pm
    MaineYankee

    Its not technically his last year, but if he doesn’t do well, which I’m not predicting, I actually think he will have a good year, then I don’t see them bringing him back unless there are no other good DH options. Cashman never has anything good to say about Posada. I hope he comes back after this coming season because he is one of my favorites.

    ————————————————————————————————-

    I don’t recall Cashman having a problem with Posada.

  126. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    GB7 -

    I’m sure you remember Johnny Mize. The best bat off the bench I’ve ever seen. Today, he’d make a living as a top notch DH.

  127. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    Notre Dame hasn’t had much of a basketball team since the days of Kelly Tripuka and Adrian Dantley.

  128. Gary January 1st, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    Tick, Tick well Andy and Brian 2011 is upon us and spring training is coming soon. I wonder how much longer this thing with Andy is going to continue, it’s been long enough.

  129. Gary January 1st, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    GB

    Wasn’t that back to the Digger Phelps era? I do remember them making final 4 one year.

  130. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    AL, I know who Johnny Mize was, but, never saw him play except in a couple of Old Timer’s games. He comes from quite an athletic family. His great grand nephew is PGA’s Larry Mize and 3rd and 4th cousins of Babe Ruth and Jimmy Foxx. The guy could mash a baseball.

  131. Gary January 1st, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:29 pm
    GB7 -

    I’m sure you remember Johnny Mize. The best bat off the bench I’ve ever seen. Today, he’d make a living as a top notch DH.

    I’d have to add Johnny Blanchard, Hector Lopez and Oscar Gamble in there also but not at the same level. Blancard was almost money in the bank PH’ing

  132. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    Yeah, those were the Digger Days. Digger’s son-in-law is Jamie Moyer.

  133. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    GB7 -

    How could someone as old as you never have seen him play.

    MTU told me he has a picture of you shaking hands with the Babe in ’27.

  134. tyanksfan36 January 1st, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    MaineYankee

    Well I took the comment Cashman made about him being DH unless he plays himself off it as not really caring for Posada. But its open to interpretation. This could be Posada’s last year as a Yankee. I’m hoping for that not to be the case but who knows. When I posted the original comment the thing about Posada was an afterthought. I posted the comment originally to say that the Jeter contract was worth it to my grandma because she loves Jeter and really wanted him back.

  135. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    Blanchard, yes indeed, a great hitter. I think if they ever compiled a list of the top 100 ball players of all time, the Yankees would make up the majority on that list.

  136. blake January 1st, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    I would have voted for Alomar, Blylevin, Larkin, and Raines for sure and would strongly consider Morris and Bagwell. I honestly don’t understand how Raines isn’t already in. He was a great player….an absolute game changer.

  137. clownthrowindown January 1st, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    If Posada does well they should consider bringing him back. But he should get a new deal for market value that’s it. No $13M to soothe his ego…the “I was part of a dynasty 14 years ago” premium.

  138. Joe from Long Island January 1st, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    GB – I think you’re being unduly harsh on Joe Gordon. He’s in the HOF, no?

    What did he do, snub you when you asked for an autograph?

  139. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    blake -

    Morris should be in, a great pitcher, but, he may not be very well liked.

  140. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Notre Dame has never made the NCAA Final Four. Made the Great Eight a couple of times, though.

  141. LGY January 1st, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    If it helped them get/stay on the field by being more awakethat is one thing. Taking steroids to gain a physical advantage over others is entirely different IMO.

    ————————

    How is taking amphetamines not a physical advantage?

  142. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    Joe -

    I think that was Babe that snubbed him.

  143. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    Wow fellas.

    Quite the baseball history lesson on here today.

    :)

  144. Gary January 1st, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:41 pm
    blake -

    Morris should be in, a great pitcher, but, he may not be very well liked.

    _____________________________________________________________________

    Boy he was death on the Yankees, hated to face him. Only guy worst was Dean Chance

  145. AZ88 January 1st, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    Speed/Greenies back then are equivalent to sunflower seeds today.

    In the day and age of multi-million dollar contracts, steroids have to be evaluated differently than speed/greenies.

  146. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    MTU -

    Just get up from that 10 hour nap?

  147. blake January 1st, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    Al,

    Can’t argue with you. He was great….game 7 in 91 against another HOFer didn’t hurt him either.

  148. Gary January 1st, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    GB sorry there was that one year

    The lone NCAA Final Four team in the history of the Notre Dame men’s basketball program will be honored at halftime of the Notre Dame-Syracuse game on Sunday afternoon, February 24. The game will be televised by CBS beginning at 2:00 p.m. (EST).

    A video tribute saluting 1977-78 squad that finished with 23-8 will be shown at halftime. In addition, a commemorative poster will given out to early-arriving fans.

  149. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    Al-

    You guys seem to be doin’ just fine w/o me.

    Keep it up.

    :)

  150. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    Joe from Long Island January 1st, 2011 at 5:41 pm
    GB – I think you’re being unduly harsh on Joe Gordon. He’s in the HOF, no?

    What did he do, snub you when you asked for an autograph?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    No, just that he really only had about 4 good seasons and two of thiose were war years. He was a good power hitter for a 2nd baseman, though. Never saw him as being more worthy than shortstop Vern Stephens, though. Take a peek at his numbers. Not a great defender, but, he could hit.

    http://www.baseball-reference......ve01.shtml

  151. Pat M. January 1st, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    The LoHud is on a good roll today….See this place is still capable of good solid informative baseball banter……Great stuff guys……

  152. Gary January 1st, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    Boring times, waiting to see if the Giants season continues after Sunday.

  153. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    Gary, i missed those two seasons overseas. I guess I’d better take a look at their team a little closer.

  154. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    blake -

    When I was going to a game at YS, I would see who we’d be facing, and if it were Morris, I knew we were in for a tough day. It’s as if he had our number. Morris has HOF numbers, but, you need to remember, a lot of younger sports writers voting for the HOF members, never saw these guys play, and all they do is look at numbers.

  155. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    Pat M. -

    Back from driving some balls with the new club?

  156. LGY January 1st, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    Morris had a 4.30 career ERA vs the Yankees.

  157. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    MTU -

    I was remarking earlier that you had a picture of GB7 shaking hands with the Babe. Could you post it when you get a chance.

    Better not, you know that privacy agreement.

  158. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    LGY -

    If those are the numbers, I believe you, but, all I remember is how tough he was on the Yankees.

  159. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    tyanksfan36 January 1st, 2011 at 5:36 pm
    MaineYankee

    Well I took the comment Cashman made about him being DH unless he plays himself off it as not really caring for Posada. But its open to interpretation. This could be Posada’s last year as a Yankee. I’m hoping for that not to be the case but who knows. When I posted the original comment the thing about Posada was an afterthought. I posted the comment originally to say that the Jeter contract was worth it to my grandma because she loves Jeter and really wanted him back.

    —————————————————————————–

    I wasn’t trying to be critical of you. I guess I’m just a bit edgy about the lack of respect Posada gets here.

    I read Cashmans quote as a positive not a negative. As if he could play himself into more catching if things go well. Just my take.

  160. Gary January 1st, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    Pat M. January 1st, 2011 at 5:49 pm
    The LoHud is on a good roll today….See this place is still capable of good solid informative baseball banter……Great stuff guys……

    _______________________________________________________________________

    Just so much Yankeee history, almost every decade has a welath of stories and accomplishmnents to talk about. The Bobby Richardson hit record and Kubek’s bad bounce in the 60 series. Donny’s consecutive home run streak. Ford’s consecutive scoreless streak in the WS. Richardson catching McCovey’s shot to end the 62 series protecting Ralph Terry’s 1-0 win, Chambliss with the walkoff in the 78 playoffs.

    No team has more than a handful of accomplishments, the Yankees have volumes.

  161. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    Pat M

    It’s civil here because randy isn’t here stirring up trouble. :lol:

  162. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    Al-

    Don’t know about that one but GB has already nicknamed Montero .

    He calls him “The Messiah of Mash”.

    Plenty of people are gonna want his autograph and their picture taken with him.

    ;)

  163. Joe from Long Island January 1st, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    Well, guys, it’s off for dinner, so I’ll “see” you all again tomorrow.

    Happy and Healthy New Year, everyone.

  164. blake January 1st, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    AL,

    I was listening to Sherman yesterday on the radio who is relatively young and he seemed to really take his vote seriously….tried to talk to players and people who watched these guys in their era and seems to really attempt to find a balance between stats and what his eyes and other peoples eyes have told him…..sadly im not sure if all the voters are that way.

  165. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    The Yankees are truely a universal team. It seems no matter where you travel, you’ll always see people wearing Yankees caps and shirts.

    Folks, you may not realize just how great a team we are fans of.

  166. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    blake -

    One could only hope all voters would be so diligent.

  167. CompassRosy January 1st, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    Doreen ~

    Thanks for sharing your SUV opinions and research.

    I drive a very old Acura CL that I purchased “near-new” from my best friend (who got a job that offered a company car shortly after she purchased the CL). It is, by far, the best, most reliable vehicle I’ve ever owned. After years of driving mini-vans (during my soccer mom/dance mom years) I was happy to have a small, sporty vehicle. But, now we have two dogs I’ve been thinking that an SUV would be a nice thing and assumed I’d go with the RDX (since I’ve been so happy with my Acura). That was before I saw my first Tiguan (in an Outback Steakhouse parking lot, of all places) and fell in love. I’ve yet to drive one, so eagerly await your further reports :-)

  168. tyanksfan36 January 1st, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    MaineYankee

    I assure you that comment wasn’t made out out of disrespect. Posada has been the only Yankee catcher I’ve ever known. His fire and passion is one of the reasons I like him so much. I have a framed picture of him on my bookshelf and his 1000 RBI shirt. I have to get off the blog when people are speaking ill of him because it irritates me so much that they disregard how great of an offensive contributor he has always been. He hit like 18 home runs last season in limited work and the Jeter flip play would be nothing if he wasn’t there covering home to tag out Giambi. It will be a sad day for me when he isn’t around and I hope a lot of people come to realize how important he has been for this team during its world series run.

  169. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    Rosy-

    I would never go with the VW over the Honda.

    The CRV will be much more reliable over the years than the Tiguan.

    Besides, what self-respecting person would own a vehicle with a name like that.

    Sounds like a genetically malformed Tiger.

    JMTC.

    :)

  170. tyanksfan36 January 1st, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    BIG AL says:

    January 1, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    The Yankees are truely a universal team. It seems no matter where you travel, you’ll always see people wearing Yankees caps and shirts.

    Folks, you may not realize just how great a team we are fans of.
    —-

    I read in the paper that when people are describing a robber or their attacker the most common symbol they recognize on their clothing is the NY logo. Don’t take that to be anything negative just when I read your comment it reminded me of that article.

  171. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    Blanchard, yes indeed, a great hitter. I think if they ever compiled a list of the top 100 ball players of all time, the Yankees would make up the majority on that list.
    +++++++++++++++++
    If we assume the HOF is a good place to start the list, there are about 203 former Major League players, and 43 Yankees in it. About 25%

  172. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    here’s an interesting read on the friendship of Roger Maris and Ken Hunt.

    http://www.bismarcktribune.com.....03286.html

    Another little note that I discovered was a rewriting of the records book. In 1961, Maris was credited with winning the RBI title over Jim Gentile of Baltimore, 142-141. Maris was credited with an RBI that he didn’t have. He finished in a 141 tie with Gentile. Mantle tied Maris for the league lead in runs scored. Again in 1961, Mantle was credited with a run scored that he didn’t have. He finished 2nd to Maris 132-131.

  173. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    tyanksfan36 -

    Hold onto your memories of Posada, and think about how many great players were never truely appreciated in their own time, but, history has a strange way of correcting such things. Jorge has been, and continues to be, a great Yankee, but, all careers must end. Let’s just sit back and enjoy this coming season, without worrying what might be later.

  174. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    GB7 -

    Your great, thanks for the link.

  175. Roundabout January 1st, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    Bagwell hit 449 homeruns, 1529 RBIs – all far more than Alomar. (210 and 1134) Doubles and runs are about equal: 488 two-baggers for Bagwell to 504 for Alomar; and 1517 runs for Bagwell on runs to 1508 for Alomar. On-Base-Average, Bagwall .408 to Alomar.371. OPS: Bagwell 149 to 116 for Alomar — showing his consistency. Bagwell won an MVP (none for Alomar)
    Alomar played two more seasons. As hitters they are about equal, with Bagwell having more power and Alomar more speed and a great fielder. Bagwell was a very good first-baseman.
    If Alomar’s got the numbers, Bagwell certainly does. And take Bill James’ endorsement that Bagwell was the best player in the game in his time.
    You should recheck the stats… Both deserved your vote, if Alomar did

  176. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    Have you all heard the latest about the Rangers from MLBTR:

    Check it out.

    Apparently, the Rangers have come to terms with their Roughneck Odor.

    I kid you not. Well sort of.

    :)

  177. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    AL, no problem. Happy to share it. I’ve made a couple of references to Ken Hunt, ex-Yankee and boyhood friend of Roger Maris. Here’s another little note. Ken Hunt’s stepson is Butch Patrick…tv legend as little Eddie Munster.

  178. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    Almost forgot.

    Here’s the link on the Rangers and the prospect they just signed.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....tstop.html

    Hilarious.

    :)

  179. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    GB7 -

    Your home must be a wealth of books, I can’t imagine how many great items you’ve put us in touch with, thanks again.

    I’d still like to see that picture of you with the Babe.

  180. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    Al-

    That picture is kept in a sealed vault at Ft. Knox.

    ;)

  181. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    Why is it when players are compared that offensive numbers are highly regarded and defensive numbers are almost ignored.

    Alomar and Bagwell aren’t in the same category defensively but the offensive numbers win out.

    I’ve always had trouble accepting that thought process when deciding a players value.

  182. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    MTU -

    Very good article, and it’s good news for the rangers, a quote from that story ………

    ” The left-handed Odor can also hold his own”

  183. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    Al-

    lol.

    You just can’t make this stuff up.

    :)

  184. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    MTU -

    Thanks, I guess I’ll never see it up front, but, at least it’s good to know GB7 got his teenage wish with that picture being taken.

  185. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    Yanks still need at least one more bullpener, preferably 2. The three most useful would be Soriano. Rauch and Fuentes. Soriano and Fuentes would be ideal, but, Rauch would be just fine, too. Sign all three and trade one of Chamberlain or Robertson in a package deal for Zambrano or Wandy Rodriguez?

  186. Roundabout January 1st, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    Green Beret:
    Notre Dame Men’s Basketball team made final four in 1977-78. Digger Phelps was the coach

    On a different issue: Mattingly and Puckett stats are equal…And Mattingly won an MVP. Puckett has the World Series and shorten career (emotional issue) thought Matttingly’s back went out on him.

  187. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    GB7 -

    Contrary to what some on here believe, I’d be happy to see Zambrano come here. I’ll take your choice of BP pitchers as well. A strong BP can help get a weaker SP line-up through the season. Just think how many good starts were blown by weak BP.

  188. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    Al-

    I’ll bet you a hundred dollars he stinks.

    :)

  189. CCBiggs January 1st, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    “And no less an authority than Bill James once combed through every one of Blyleven’s losses and no-decisions, game-by-game, to prove it was mostly bad luck that led to his “failure” to win 300.”

    Did Bill James also go through all of Blyleven’s wins and subtract out the lucky wins? It shouldn’t be a one-way street — if you want to take into account the bad breaks, you should also take into account the lucky breaks.

  190. Pat M. January 1st, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    MTU……Cadillac SRX is just a pheneonable automobile…….With rebates and stuff you can pick one up for around 55 k……I turned in my Escalade for one….Love it

  191. 108 stitches January 1st, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 6:30 pm
    Yanks still need at least one more bullpener, preferably 2. The three most useful would be Soriano. Rauch and Fuentes. Soriano and Fuentes would be ideal, but, Rauch would be just fine, too. Sign all three and trade one of Chamberlain or Robertson in a package deal for Zambrano or Wandy Rodriguez?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    It makes sense. Looking around either league, they’re the best available and it gives the Yankees some breathing room before the 7/31 trading deadline and takes pressure off the bullpen as presently constructed.

  192. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    AL, Zambrano’s probably the better pitcher, but, Rodriguez might be the better fit…fewer headaches, cheaper and left handed. The four pitchers might be less expensive than Lee by himself. Soriano might think about a 1 year deal to get a big money closer’s job next year. A gamble for him and the Yankees.

  193. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    MTU -

    Can’t make a bet I know I’ll lose.

  194. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    Pat M.-

    My neighbor leased one. They were very pleased with it.

    Good for crossing streams in So. Cal.

    The only two good vehicles that VW ever built were the original Beetle which made a great
    Dune buggy, and the Vanagon which was good for ……

    ;)

  195. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    GB7 -

    The way Zambrano pitched, after coming back last year, he was the best pitcher out there. If there were any hope he would continue that in NY, with much less pressure on him, not needing to be the #1 guy, I’d take the chance, with the Cubs taking back some of his salary.

    You’re right, use the Lee money, and sign all 4, you never, ever, have enough pitching.

  196. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    MTU -

    Streams in S. Cal? You mean rivers and mud slides, better get you that Hummer 1.

  197. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    Al-

    I want the same model your wife likes.

    ;)

  198. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    Pat M. -

    Any new rumors floating about?

  199. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    Blanchard, yes indeed, a great hitter. I think if they ever compiled a list of the top 100 ball players of all time, the Yankees would make up the majority on that list.
    +++++++++++++++++
    If we assume the HOF is a good place to start the list, there are about 203 former Major League players, and 43 Yankees in it. About 25%
    +++++++++++++++++++
    Follow up

    There are 15 Yankee players on top 100 WAR of all time

    http://www.baseball-reference......reer.shtml

  200. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    I say we replace Cashman with GB.

    :)

  201. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    MTU -

    We need to attend an auction when they get ready to give them up. If we wound up with one of those used overseas, it would have all that extra armor on it, very heavy.

  202. Pat M. January 1st, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    Big Al…..It only rains maybe 30 days a year here if that …..The Problem is when we do get 3 days of consecutive rain then the hills could have issues…..I’m near the beach, lot’s of eye candy !!!!

  203. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    BoJo -

    Thanks for your work in looking that up, great job.

    The cream always rises to the top.

  204. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    Pat M.

    That’s where the Vanagon truly comes into it’s own, so to speak.

    Al-

    Perfect.

    :)

  205. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    Pat M. -

    You can always visit the mountains any time, eye candy 24/7, now that’s my idea of beautiful scenery.

  206. BoJo January 1st, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    We used ot say “if the van was a rockin’, don’t come a knockin’”

    ++++++++++
    Thanks Al

  207. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    Al-

    On second thought let’s just get an M1A.

    Let’s really rock and roll.

    :)

  208. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    MTU -

    Rubber treads, a rear license plate holder, I’m ready to go.

  209. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    Got to go for awhile, catch you later.

  210. randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    pat m-

    just got back from playing golf.

    it was actually 50 degrees here on cape cod ,and i played with morton dean, the longtime weekend news anchor in the 80′s for cbs , and his wife.

    i usually play by myself, but i knew morton a bit from around town and i figured that having someone intelligent to talk to might help balance out all the time i’ve been interacting with jerkface lately :)

  211. CompassRosy January 1st, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    MTU ~

    My very first car (in 1979) was a 1976 Honda Civic. Unfortunately, it’s color (bright yellow) should have been a clue to it’s eventual, unfortunate label – LEMON. I realize I’m in the minority of Honda owners, and, as I mentioned previously, I love my Acura, but I think I’d be just fine switching from Japanese-made to some German engineering.

  212. Pat M. January 1st, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    Big Al…..My parents left my sisters and I a some of cabins in Lake Arrowhead….I head up there ( about an hour and a half from the beach ) in the spring but seldom during the winter….The snow and cold doesn’t feel too good on my knees as of late……Besides I no longer skate or ski so I take a pass…….As a kid growing up in Southern Westchester, ice skating and skiing was a winter rite….How many here remember skiing at Van Cortlandt Park ??? No news on baseball trades or rumors….Maybe after the Holidays when I see a few guys at the Golf Course…..

  213. Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    MTU -

    Very funny. Ha. Ha. Ha. LOL

    Actually, before I put any money on the Tiguan, I want the dealer to give me the proper pronunciation. ;)

    It is a weird name for a car.

    But so far all of the reports I’ve read from several different sources have had nothing but glowing things to say about the Tiguan both style-wise and performance-wise, but most especially, safety-wise.

  214. Pat M. January 1st, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    Tin Cup…Of course I remember Morton Dean…I recall his reports on Watergate….Don’t tell me you hustled Morton out of his retirement money ??

  215. Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    Compass Rosy -

    I’ll give you advised. :)

  216. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    Doreen/Rosy-

    Before you go and plunk down your hard earned cash on a VW.

    Please go to the J.D. powers quality ratings for both the CRV and the other one.

    I bet you’ll be surprised to see how much more reliable the CRV is than the wierd sounding one.

    The CRV has some of the highest quality ratings of any SUV.

    That’s all I’ll say. The rest is up to you.

    :)

  217. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    Tiguan ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tee-güän) [Chochimie (Indian dialect), Fertile meadow or Close to the water.] The name of Tijuana derives from Tiguan

  218. Pat M. January 1st, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    MTU……Doreen is a Lady of style and distinction…….

  219. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    Pat M.-

    That goes w/o saying but I just don’t want her breaking down near some fertile meadow in NJ in her new Tiguan.

    Convince to get the Caddy. That’s fine.

    Why do think VW has that commercial where
    they’re “looking for drivers” ?

    ;)

  220. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    Got to run folks.

    Off to trip the light fantastic.

    Have a good evening.

    :)

  221. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    More likely that you’ll just trip over the lights, MTU.

  222. MTU January 1st, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    GB-

    That’s better than what I expected you to say.

    :)

  223. randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    “Don’t tell me you hustled Morton out of his retirement money ??”

    pat m-

    shhhhhhshshsh… not the first time playing. :)

    actually he’s new to the game. just started playing, but he has some natural talent. he’s a big baseball fan and you can tell he played baseball a lot as as a kid by the way he swings the club . he actually parred two of the first three holes.

    i knew that he’s a die hard red sox fan so i stayed away from red sox/ yankee conversation. it was a memorable new years day playing golf with them. nice couple.

  224. joeman January 1st, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    Edgar..Maynard on tonight..should be a good one

  225. ron January 1st, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    Doreen:

    Have you looked at the kia soul?

    Much cheaper.Not sure about the warranty or mileage or anything else but i just bought a kia rio because i was sick & tired of dealers wanting me to buy the most expensive car in the lot.I just wanted the cheapest car payment possible but i had too be ok with the car wich i am.

  226. randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    “The name of Tijuana derives from Tiguan”

    gb7-

    i never had good luck in tijuana.

    first , there was the time my college friend went down an alley way on spring break and pounded on all the doors of some entrepreneurial women working behind those doors. the next thing i knew we were being chased by a gang of angry knife wielding mexicans . i was not happy with my friend, but i did set a personal record for my 100 yard dash time.

    then there was the time on another spring break when i was arrested for smuggling after leaving tijuana and coming back to the us. just a little misunderstanding but it wasn’t fun at the time.

    no tijuana again for me in this lifetime.

  227. Pat M. January 1st, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    I just cannot visualize Doreen arriving to a fucntion wearing an evening dress stepping out in a Kia or a Honda…..This lady ozzes Elegance…….Saw a photo of her, man she is a classy looking Toots !!!

  228. John in Ohio January 1st, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    Blyleven had the greatest curveball in the history of the game. He’s also a great broadcaster. He should be in the HOF. The only HOF Curt Schilling belongs in is the Big Mouth HOF.

  229. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 7:37 pm
    “The name of Tijuana derives from Tiguan”

    gb7-

    i never had good luck in tijuana.

    first , there was the time my college friend went down an alley way on spring break and pounded on all the doors of some entrepreneurial women working behind those doors. the next thing i knew we were being chased by a gang of angry knife wielding mexicans . i was not happy with my friend, but i did set a personal record for my 100 yard dash time.

    then there was the time on another spring break when i was arrested for smuggling after leaving tijuana and coming back to the us. just a little misunderstanding but it wasn’t fun at the time.

    no tijuana again for me in this lifetime.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Were the ladies chasing you guys on their donkeys? I take it that the “smuggling” had nothing to do with bringing sombreros and tequila with worms in the bottles back, huh?

  230. ron January 1st, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    A car is a car,nothing more.

  231. Pat M. January 1st, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    Tin Cup ( TheOriginal Randy I ) ….The only time I have anything to do with TJ, is when I see it from 30,000 feet when I’m flying over it…..I’ve had some issues down there back in the day…..

  232. pat January 1st, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    “How many here remember skiing at Van Cortlandt Park ???”

    Me. We also used to go to Fahnestock State Park for night skiing every Sunday.

    And running down to the Bronx River after school to see if the flag with the red ball was flying so you could skate on it.

  233. randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    “Were the ladies chasing you guys on their donkeys? I take it that the “smuggling” had nothing to do with bringing sombreros and tequila with worms in the bottles back, huh?”

    well, it was 1968 so you can use your imagination :)

  234. Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    Pat M -

    The Cadillac is a little too up there in price and a little bigger than I want.

    I know Honda’s reputation and I wanted to like the CR-V. But when I sat in one today, I was disappointed. It drove well, of course. But, I like my appointments, I guess.

    MTU -

    Everything else I read was very positive about the Tiguan. I don’t understand why JD Powers is so low on it. One of my husband’s first cars was a VW Rabbit. It was a great car. Except for the Blaupunkt sound system which attracted vandals – his was stolen.

  235. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 7:55 pm

    That was the great thing about the winters in Michigan…the lakes and rivers freezing over. Playing hockey on them in the winter and as we got older, going out and buying old junk cars that still ran. Tow them out to the rivers, take the tires off of the cars and run on the rims, playing demolition derby on the ice. That was a blast. Only went through the ice one time.

  236. randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    “.The only time I have anything to do with TJ, is when I see it from 30,000 feet when I’m flying over it…”

    pat m-

    i wouldn’t even try flying over tijuana. with my luck there, the plane would crash.

  237. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 7:58 pm

    randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 7:51 pm
    “Were the ladies chasing you guys on their donkeys? I take it that the “smuggling” had nothing to do with bringing sombreros and tequila with worms in the bottles back, huh?”

    well, it was 1968 so you can use your imagination

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Ah….taking botany samples back for “study” huh?

  238. Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    Growing up back in Staten Island (before it was taken over, before and just after the V-N Bridge was built), there were a lot of ponds that would freeze over that were within walking distance of our home. We went ice skating a lot. I was never really good at it, but I could hold my own, but more importantly, it was the most fun I remember as a kid. We didn’t ski, though.

    I didn’t put on my first pair of skis until college. Took a college trip up to Camelback in PA, and the conditions were so awful – icy and very windy. I am not exaggerating when I tell you that the wind was blowing me around on the skis waiting at the top of the “bunny hill” for my first lesson. I don’t think I even got down the hill that day.

    Several years later I tried again at Lake Placid. Conditions were only a little better but I made it down a hill without incident. I felt so out of control, though. Skiing and me – imperfect together. ;)

  239. ac1 January 1st, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    i still vote to at least bring in some veteran depth for pitching, like Brad Penny, Justin Duscherer, etc….. You know, people who have showed some real talent at some point in their career, and only if they don’t work do i go to Mitre. Nova is an option, maybe Phelps, but we need depth so i vote to bring both of those two on if they get a decent price. I dont believe it can be worse than Mitre…

  240. randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    doreen-

    this ranks the tiguan a little higher than the cr-v

    http://usnews.rankingsandrevie.....en_Tiguan/

    i just bought a honda fit this month because i think gas prices are going to go back up to $5 a gallon in the next few years. plus the honda fit has a surprising 57 cubic feet cargo behind the drivers seat. the crv- has 72 cubic feet and the tiguan 56 cubic feet.

    i think when picking a car you have to like it for what you want it for.if the cr-v doesn’t feel right to you , you’d never love driving it.

    the only downside to the honda fit so far is when i take fast right turns i have to lean in to the center of the vehicle so it doesn’t tip over from centrifugal force :)

  241. MaineYankee January 1st, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    Doreen

    Several years later I tried again at Lake Placid. Conditions were only a little better but I made it down a hill without incident. I felt so out of control, though. Skiing and me – imperfect together.

    —————————————————————————–

    Did you get a gold or a silver medal?

  242. SAS January 1st, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    Doreen,

    I drive a Honda in AZ and an Acura (leased in NY). There is no question in my mind that the Acura is the better car even if my husband swears there is no difference. I tried a couple of other cars, but my back acted up. I have to be very careful about that.

  243. pat January 1st, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    Growing up, we had a “pond” in the woods behind our house. Skating in the winter and building rafts in the summer. Only when we got older did we realize the “pond” was actually a swamp! We credit our good health to living among the “penicilin” for our formative years though. :wink:

    The Bronx River used to freeze multiple times in a winter but the last time I remember it freezing was decades ago so either there is something to this global warming thing or someone changed the make-up of the River when I wasn’t looking.

  244. Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    MTU -

    Any negatives I am reading about the Tiguan have to do with its smallish cargo space. But this is exactly what I want. I already have a vehicle with a LOT of cargo room and I don’t need it anymore. I want a stylish hatchback-type vehicle because I like the convenience of the hatchback over a trunk. But really, I don’t know what they’re talking about; Consumer Reports says the Tiguan has 28.5 cu ft of cargo space while the CR-V has 25.5.

    As far as reliability, based on how I’m reading it, I think JD Powers is looking at the warranty package, which may be less than what some other carmakers offer, and not whether or not the car is actually “reliable.” It has gotten excellent safety ratings.

  245. randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    “Ah….taking botany samples back for “study” huh?”

    now , why didn’t i think of that? :)

  246. Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    Randy l -

    I’m guessing Consumer Reports is measuring the cargo with the back seats in their normal position. The CR-V does allow you to fold-up the back seats if needed. The Tiguan merely allows you to fold them down.

    The gas mileage on all the vehicles I was looking at wasn’t so different.

    Originally, I was hoping that when I was ready to give up the MDX I would look into a hybrid. But they’re still too expensive and not tested enough. Plus it seems I’m doing more highway driving and I’d still be using gas for that. I have the impression, and I may be wrong, that the hybrids are better for local driving.

    It looks like the Tiguan is a “niche” car.

    Maine Yankee -

    The Gold Medal for the silliest looking person on skis! :lol:

    SAS -

    I was very disappointed that the RDX wasn’t for me. I love my Acura.

  247. randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 8:33 pm

    “But really, I don’t know what they’re talking about; Consumer Reports says the Tiguan has 28.5 cu ft of cargo space while the CR-V has 25.5.”

    doreen-

    that’s behind the passenger seats. the difference is when the passenger seats are folded down.

  248. Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    pat -

    There are actually homes that have been built upon the ponds we used to skate on. (Landfill?)

  249. randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    pat and doreen-

    when i was growing up being part of one of the first baby boom waves we went to school half day for years and in the winter we were out on our skating pond by 1:00 every day. we played non stop pond hockey.i remember many a night in excruciating pain as my feet unfroze in the bathtub after being out well after dark playing hockey.

    the past two winters have been really cold and the ponds here on the cape froze enough to skate. it’s great exercise because you never forget how to skate. i’m not sure if they are going to freeze this winter though. i’m still seeing open water on most of them.

  250. Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    randy l -

    There is nothing like skating outdoors on a pond or even a large, wet area that freezes over (my neighbor’s yard). Certainly not an indoor rink where all you can do is skate in a circle with strangers.

    One of my favorite places to skate on Staten Island was Martling’s Pond near the SI Zoo (and my grandmother’s house). It was large and we would bring hot cocoa and we would stay for hours. And you could experiment and try to teach yourself how to skate “fancy.”

    Ice Skates were a Christmas staple.

    randy l, nothing like that frozen feeling!!! :)

  251. Pat M. January 1st, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    Doreen…..The VW is a fine vehicle with a nice style……Go with you’re gut….The JD Power ratings is based largely on CSI surveys that differ from manufacturer to manufacturer…..GM has the most unforgiving surveys in the business….Only completely satisfied is a passing grade as very satisfied is considered a failed score…….I know this because I do consulting for dealerships to raise their scores……I do know that the Japanese manufacturers have the most forgiving surveys in the industry, thus the nice scores……

  252. Doreen January 1st, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    Pat M -

    I was getting that impression from doing some further reading. Thanks.

  253. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    GB7 -

    I’ve asked MTU to E-mail you a long list of oldie TV shows. This is one of them, and when I was watching it, you came to mind, enjoy.

    http://xoteria.com/CH28.html

  254. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    Later.

  255. JCPD January 1st, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    So tell me again Al, who’s on first???

  256. randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    pat m-

    i’m really getting hooked on golf again.

    i’m thinking of going over and playing the british open courses sometime in the next few years. i know somewhat does it every year and it sounds like something any one who loves golf ought to do at least once.

    have you ever played St Andrews ?

  257. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    JCPD & GB7 -

    Here’s the entire sitr.

    http://oldiestelevision.com/

  258. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    JCPD -

    Did you read my E-mail?

  259. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    site > sitr dah

  260. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    Exactly – Who’s on first!

  261. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 9:58 pm

    No, but I play Mary Andrews, but that was before I got married.

  262. blake January 1st, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    I felt like I was playing St Andrews today in the fog and rain…..chipped in from the woods on the first hole for birdie then it was all downhill from there. So things get back to normal next week…..hopefully Andy’s new years resolution was to come back to the Yankees…..

  263. randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    ” No, but I play Mary Andrews, but that was before I got married.”

    sounds like she’s no saint :)

  264. Carlo January 1st, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    english / grammar experts – check
    Automobile experts – check
    Baseball experts – check

    Seems like a one stop for all ones professional needs here on lohud, right?

  265. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    randy l. -

    My brother-in-law retired from the Navy and lives in Scotland. The weather there is not very good for very long. If you’re going to play there, be careful of the seasons.

  266. BIG AL January 1st, 2011 at 10:14 pm

    Good night all.

  267. West Coast Yankee Fan January 1st, 2011 at 10:14 pm

    Here is an example of why scouting will always be important and never be replaced by sabermetric analysis:

    Paraphrasing the article, the AP reported that Steve Boros passed away recently. In the article they pointed out that he was an advance scout for the Los Angeles Dodgers in 1988 and was a member of the team that filled out reports on the A’s, the Dodgers’ opponent in the World Series. Boros and noticed that Oakland relief pitcher Dennis Eckersley tended to throw a backdoor slider on 3-2 counts to left-handed hitters. That was exactly the pitch that pinch-hitter Kirk Gibson hit off Eckersley for a two-out, bottom-of-the-ninth homer to win Game 1. The Dodgers went on to upset the A’s in the series.

  268. LGY January 1st, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    Here is an example of why scouting will always be important and never be replaced by sabermetric analysis:

    *****

    Not a good example because that type of scouting has largely been replaced by Pitch FX data.

    That is the type of computer generated information that fills Girardis binder for example.

  269. Rich in NJ January 1st, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    No one would ever say that sabr stuff should replace scouting, but scouting in the absence stats is incomplete analysis as well.

  270. blake January 1st, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    And the binder never lies ;)

  271. LGY January 1st, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    WCYF’s post actually shows the direct opposite of his point.
    I can tell you how often a pitcher throws a certain pitch in certain counts to certain hitters in seconds.

    It would be much much longer and much more expensive for a scout to do so.

    It shows how much the Information we have available today is so much cheaper and more efficient than scouting in certain areas.

  272. Hopdevil January 1st, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    “Dennis Eckersley tended to throw a backdoor slider on 3-2 counts to left-handed hitters.”

    The scout made an inference from a statistical event itself…which is what sabermetric supporters…well, support

  273. Rich in NJ January 1st, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    The most important role for scouting is to assess players before they reach the MLs.

  274. blake January 1st, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    A healthy mixture of traditional scouting and Sabernerd is where it’s at.

  275. AZ88 January 1st, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    “Dennis Eckersley tended to throw a backdoor slider on 3-2 counts to left-handed hitters.”

    That, and about 50 other Eckersely’s tendencies can be found on fangraphs in a matter of moments.

  276. Pat M. January 1st, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    Carlo…..You overlooked the fact that we have a M.D. here as well as several Attorneys……Pretty diversafied group

  277. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 10:49 pm

    Here’ is an example of why there should still be “by the gut managers”. Casey stengel kept a book in his gut. blake has it right. By the gut managers that use the “book” as a reference and not use it to let the computer manage the game. Computers don’t have a feel for the game.

    “GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
    SAS December 30th, 2010 at 8:22 pm
    GB,

    I want the kind of coaches that teach with the ‘tough love’ type approach. Many of these young guys have been the “be all and end all” in their schools and communities. They could do no wrong. They need people who are excellent teachers who want to see excellence in return, but at the same time the coaches care for the kids.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    SAS, I don’t mind managers who keep travck of things on computers, but, there are those, and girardi is one that won’t make a move if the computer says not to. Some games call for just a “gut feeling” on the game. That’s the gut feeling, crusty old guy type I need to see more of. They have the feel for the game….the computers don’t.

    Years ago, Hank Bauer hit 2 homers, a single and a double in the game, due to be batting against a left hander in the 8th inning of the gamr. Left handed pitcher in, Stengel sends up the lefty hitting Gene Woodling in to bat for bauer is screaming at stengel. Woodling hits a grand slam. After the game, Stengel was asked about the odd switch. His answer was that although Bauer hit that pitcher well and Woodling didn’t, he thought Bauer had used up his share of hits and Woodling was made about not playing to start with, so, he’d probably still be so mad that he’d get a hit.

    Another time right handed hitting Andy Carey was hitting with runners on, figuring that he’s going to be bunting the runners up or told by Stengel to “butcher boy” it, or at the least, be pinch hit for, Stengel’s advice to Carey, “Get your ass up there and hit the first pitch into the right field seats.” Carey was a lot of things, but, home run hitter wasn’t one of them. Carey hit the first pitch into the right field seats. When asked about it after the game, Carey said, “When the Old Man tells us to do something, we do it.”

  278. Rich in NJ January 1st, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    Gut or stats or both, managers have very little effect on a game.

  279. Dionysius Thelxinoe January 1st, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    AZ88 says:
    January 1, 2011 at 10:37 pm
    “Dennis Eckersley tended to throw a backdoor slider on 3-2 counts to left-handed hitters.”

    ———————–

    Hopdevil says:
    January 1, 2011 at 10:29 pm
    “Dennis Eckersley tended to throw a backdoor slider on 3-2 counts to left-handed hitters.”

    ————————

    West Coast Yankee Fan says:
    January 1, 2011 at 10:14 pm
    Oakland relief pitcher Dennis Eckersley tended to throw a backdoor slider on 3-2 counts to left-handed hitters.

    ———————–

    So what are you guys trying to say?

  280. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 10:53 pm

    Managers may not win a lot of games, but, they can sure lose a lot of them.

  281. blake January 1st, 2011 at 10:56 pm

    Gb,
    I think we can hope as Girardi gains more experience then he’ll have more to draw from and trust his “gut” more often. I think he will….he’s a smart guy but he’s still relatively inexperienced as a big league manager.

  282. Rich in NJ January 1st, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    They have the capacity to lose games, but how many do they actually lose?

    For example, even Torre, who I thought was as bad an in-game manager as I have seen, especially after Zimmer left, only lost a few games a year because his talent overcame his mistakes.

  283. blake January 1st, 2011 at 10:59 pm

    Someone should have given Eck some advanced scouting that said to not throw sliders to hurt players with slider speed bats.

  284. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 11:01 pm

    I hope so, Blake. I’m afraid that he’ll always be a “by the book” manager. They can say what they want, but, Torre won quite a few games on instinct, as did Lasorda, Al Lopez, Houk. not many left that do that.

  285. Dionysius Thelxinoe January 1st, 2011 at 11:01 pm

    Rich in NJ says:
    January 1, 2011 at 10:50 pm
    Gut or stats or both, managers have very little effect on a game.

    ————————-

    Agree 100% “on a game.”

    However, I believe that managers have a great deal to do with production and preparation (fundamentals, discipline).

  286. Yank 97 January 1st, 2011 at 11:02 pm

    “So what are you guys trying to say?”

    That Dennis Eckersley tended to throw a backdoor slider on 3-2 counts to left-handed hitters.

  287. blake January 1st, 2011 at 11:03 pm

    The players always will decide more of the games but its really hard to quantify the moves a manager makes because we don’t know the outcomes of the opposite decisions. Every pitching change has the chance of a different outcome…..etc. I do think managers can make a difference…..I just don’t know how.much.

  288. randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 11:04 pm

    “Gut or stats or both, managers have very little effect on a game.”

    without a manager, the players would argue for hours on who is was going to play and who was going to hit where.

    once i played for a softball team near umass back in the no nukes days. one of our players was a national leader in the no nukes movement and talked our softball team into using consensus like the no nukes movement did to make decisions.

    we all agreed, and when the next game played we all got in a big argument before the game and never did come up with a lineup. after about fifteen minutes of watching us all screaming at each other, the ump gave the other team a forfeit.

    so don’t tell me managers aren’t important.

  289. Nick in SF January 1st, 2011 at 11:05 pm

    In the future, everyone will have an opinion about Dennis Eckersley’s tendencies for 15 minutes.

  290. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    Blake, somebody said they thought the difference in the amount of games affected by managerial decisions was 10. He wouldn’t explain how he figured that out. It may have been another time that Bill James pulled something out of his ass.

  291. Hopdevil January 1st, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 11:04 pm
    “Gut or stats or both, managers have very little effect on a game.”

    without a manager, the players would argue for hours on who is was going to play and who was going to hit where.

    once i played for a softball team near umass back in the no nukes days. one of our players was a national leader in the no nukes movement and talked our softball team into using consensus like the no nukes movement did to make decisions.

    we all agreed, and when the next game played we all got in a big argument before the game and never did come up with a lineup. after about fifteen minutes of watching us all screaming at each other, the ump gave the other team a forfeit.

    so don’t tell me managers aren’t important.

    ———————————-

    I would presume that the most hardcore sabermetric fan would agree that having a manager would be better than not having a manager.

  292. Yank 97 January 1st, 2011 at 11:08 pm

    “so don’t tell me managers aren’t important.”

    Ok… managers are important in making out the lineup card. Fine.

  293. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 11:10 pm

    LMAO @ Randy. I say to nuke ‘em all.

    Just remember: The only difference between nuclear thinking and unclear thinking is how you use the UN.

  294. blake January 1st, 2011 at 11:10 pm

    GB,

    I think I probably agree with the notion that a bad manager probably costs you more games than a good one wins you….I do think it matters. Its just tough to put a number on how much….probably different with each individual case.

  295. randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 11:12 pm

    “I would presume that the most hardcore sabermetric fan would agree that having a manager would be better than not having a manager.”

    i think once the game is going rich in nj is saying he’d like to see the manager let the players play.

    but all kidding aside , it really slows things down if someone isn’t in charge :)

  296. LGY January 1st, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    Managing by the gut stories are very one sided because you only hear when it works.

    The reality is that there are countless times we never hear about the times it failed. How many times is making a move because the guy on the bench is “mad” going to work?

    Not often.

    Managing by the gut inevitably creates a few nice c-o-c-ktail party stories, but it is a very irresponsible strategy.

  297. Nick in SF January 1st, 2011 at 11:15 pm

    Zimmer’s gut was particularly profound rotund.

  298. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 11:16 pm

    I wonder how they ever managed without a computer. It’s a miracle how every team wasn’t .500 every year.

  299. D-Man January 1st, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    Girardi was managing by his but when he left Burnett in there well past his expiration date, wasn’t he?

  300. D-Man January 1st, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    *gut

  301. Hopdevil January 1st, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    blake January 1st, 2011 at 11:10 pm
    GB,

    I think I probably agree with the notion that a bad manager probably costs you more games than a good one wins you….I do think it matters. Its just tough to put a number on how much….probably different with each individual case.

    ———————

    I’d agree…and add that it’s impossible to actually quantify. We can second-guess a manager’s decision about event X – and claim his “gut” sucked or his stats were wrong – but we cannot (obviously) state that making a different decision would have resulted in a different outcome.

  302. Rich in NJ January 1st, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    “However, I believe that managers have a great deal to do with production and preparation (fundamentals, discipline).”

    Fundamentals, I get, although they should be taught at the mL level, but production? How?

    As some here can attest, I’m not afraid to criticize Jeter when it’s warranted, but I think he has more impact on team discipline at this point that any manager would.

  303. randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 11:24 pm

    “LMAO @ Randy. I say to nuke ‘em all.”

    gb7-

    i’m not kidding when i say that some of those players from that day still don’t like me and it was over 30 years ago.

    i had to go play semi pro hard ball the next year because my damn counter culture softball team wouldn’t let me play on the team the next year even when they had a manager because i had told too many people that they should sit their butt on the bench because they stunk during that consensus game argument.

    the argument got down to whether were we playing for fun and everyone should play or were we trying to win and the good ones should play. you can guess where i came down on that issue .

    i nerve got the concept of losing is fun.

    but look at girardi. he makes out the lineup. everyone goes out there no problem and the game starts right on time. a manager who decides to play to win and sits the crummy ones on the bench is a great concept :)

  304. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    LMAO. You need to be the next Secretary Defence, Randy. I’m tired of losing.

  305. Dionysius Thelxinoe January 1st, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    Rich, production, as in making any decision that helps put your player in the best position to succeed. Examples – when Joe G switched Damon and Jeter … which guys you DON’T ask to bunt … resting a player against a starter he can’t hit for beans … Just general examples.

    I also believe there’s SOME level of motivation, attitude, and team discipline that’s important for a manager to maintain. That affects production, IMO.

  306. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    Secretary Of Defense

  307. randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    “Zimmer’s gut was particularly profound rotund.”

    nick in sf-

    i know you like to make fun of my anecdotal stories but one day at al lang field in st pete i was rushing out of clete’s office to go warm up the starting pitcher and zimmer wearing a bright yellow polo shirt came walking in to say hi to his old buddy clete as i ran smack into him.

    it was the sensation of jumping into a giant lemon trampoline.i bounced back into the office faster than i was going out.

    when zimmer chased pedro that day if he would have hit him square, pedro would have landed in the front row of the stands. pedro knew what he was doing ole-ing zim. just saying.

  308. Rich in NJ January 1st, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    Dionysius Thelxinoe

    I’d call that strategy, and I’m not sure that batting order ultimately matters a lot, particularly with an almost circular lineup like the Yankees often throw out, but OK.

    As for bunting, I am almost completely opposed to it, except in very rare circumstances.

    Girardi could be tested over the next year or two because he may have to confront the fact that aging core, if not iconic, players may be in decline, and as a result, may need to be moved down in the order, change positions, or spend a lot more time on the bench.

  309. randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    ” You need to be the next Secretary Defence, Randy.”

    just don’t as long as i’m not asked to be a diplomat.

    i’ve always had a knack for ticking people off.

    you may have noticed.

  310. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 11:39 pm

    Speaking of old players/coaches…still two of the worst coaching mistakes was GMS getting rid of Clete Boyer and Tony Cloninger.

  311. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 11:40 pm

    randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 11:37 pm
    ” You need to be the next Secretary Defence, Randy.”

    just don’t as long as i’m not asked to be a diplomat.

    i’ve always had a knack for ticking people off.

    you may have noticed.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    You’re just misunderstood.

  312. Dionysius Thelxinoe January 1st, 2011 at 11:43 pm

    Rich, I agree. And I’m of the opinion that how Joe handles those moves with the iconic guys, call it strategy if you will, will likely have impact on the production of those affected.

  313. Nick in SF January 1st, 2011 at 11:43 pm

    Anecdotal stories about Don Zimmer’s gut are one thing.

    Anecdotal stories that ‘prove’ some ridiculous point about the Twins are something else entirely.

  314. randy l. January 1st, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    “You’re just misunderstood.”

    actually i think it’s the other way around.

    i think i’m understood which sometimes can be a problem :)

    like on the blog ,don’t you sometimes just want to say to someone” STFU you moron!!!” ?

    now that would be make one understood.

    but not very popular

    plus , i think it’s against blog rules :)

  315. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2011 at 11:58 pm

    I think I’ve said that a few times.

  316. randy l. January 2nd, 2011 at 12:02 am

    “Anecdotal stories that ‘prove’ some ridiculous point about the Twins are something else entirely.”

    nick in sf-

    here’s a” ridiculous point” i’ve been saving up all day just waiting for a twin basher to fall into my trap.

    actually it’s a question.

    who has the lower playoff starting pitching average era in the playoffs- yankees or twins?
    ( average era is when you add up the era for each year and divide by the number of years. it’s off a little because some years the team plays more than others, but still a useful number).

    the trick answer is the twins.

    average yankee playoff starter era for the decade – 5.58

    average twin playoff starter era for the decade- 4.56

    you see, it’s a myth that yankee starters are strikeout power pitchers who do better than the twins pitch to contact pitchers.

    the twins actually have the better era for playoff starting pitching.

    aren’t numbers great?

    i’m getting in touch with my sabermetric side.

  317. randy l. January 2nd, 2011 at 12:04 am

    “I think I’ve said that a few times.”

    now that you mention it, i may have been the recipient more than once a few years back.

  318. GreenBeret7 January 2nd, 2011 at 12:12 am

    I’m sure that was during your Livan days. I thought you were insufferable. Actually, I was sure of it.

    I just didn’t realize that given your age, you’re allowed to be.

  319. Nick in SF January 2nd, 2011 at 12:14 am

    It must have been tremendously difficult to keep a lid on that Twins trap all day long.

    :roll:

  320. GreenBeret7 January 2nd, 2011 at 12:14 am

    WOW!!! Oklahoma is just hammering UCONN every way you can hammer a team.

  321. West Coast Yankee Fan January 2nd, 2011 at 12:18 am

    The above comments on sabermetrics are just not true – if they were, major league teams would not have scouts. The stands are filled with them at every game, using their experience, their eyes, talking to other scouts and players, making subjective evaluations that statistical analysis cannot.

    An example. A scout’s person-to person dialogue with team reps reveal that a given player had the flu a few days ago and although recovered was not at full speed. The scout notes that and passes it on with his evaluations – the stats don’t reflect it at all. Stat lovers might say that is a statistically insignificant and that may be true about that one four game series and 16 at bats. But over the course of a season there are a myriad of other human factors that come into play that effect a players performance, both mental and physical, that are not reflected statistically in a way that accounts for any disparity.

    I like stats. Baseball is in large part about stats. They are a part of the picture not all of it as some seem to suggest.

  322. MaineYankee January 2nd, 2011 at 12:23 am

    randy

    like on the blog ,don’t you sometimes just want to say to someone” STFU you moron!!!”

    —————————————————————————————————

    I think many here have wanted to say that to you. :lol:

  323. GreenBeret7 January 2nd, 2011 at 12:26 am

    OUCH!!! LMAO. What a great friend you are Maine.

  324. GreenBeret7 January 2nd, 2011 at 12:27 am

    OH God. Nobody’s safe on here.

  325. MaineYankee January 2nd, 2011 at 12:37 am

    GB7

    It’s hard to resist an easy shot like that.

  326. tyanksfan36 January 2nd, 2011 at 12:45 am

    GB7

    I was looking on the Tampa Yankee roster and at the players statistics. Of the TY player still on there. The OBP was about .340 when I got to Mitch Abeita, the catcher, his OBP was .375 which was the highest of anyone on the roster. He was in 77 games with an average in the .270s. Not much power but I’m sure he might appeal to someone. His defense is pretty good as well. I’m not sure what a good OBP is but I’m betting .375 is up there.

  327. Pat M. January 2nd, 2011 at 12:51 am

    Looks like Tin Cup hits a backhand to the baseline for a point…Advantage Tin Cup !!!!

  328. GreenBeret7 January 2nd, 2011 at 12:54 am

    Abeita isn’t a bad ballplayer, TY. he’s a good move ‘em up hitter, but, not an automatic out. He’s better than Cervelli. Montero is the key to whether he moves to Trenton or Jose gil is re-signed and moves up.

  329. GreenBeret7 January 2nd, 2011 at 12:57 am

    Pat, he’s laying in the weeds, getting ready to strike…as soon as he can think of a snarky remark to strike back with at Maine.

  330. Jerkface January 2nd, 2011 at 2:20 am

    Are these the same twins this decade that had Johan Santana, awesome strike out pitcher?

    2004

    Johan ERA .75
    Brad Radke and Carlos Silva combined: 8 ERA

    Seems clear cut to me :)

  331. Jerkface January 2nd, 2011 at 2:21 am

    And the same Yankee teams that had Wang as their ace? Who has a career 7.58 ERA in the postseason?

  332. Jerkface January 2nd, 2011 at 2:25 am

    All I know is that since they’ve moved towards getting better pitchers, the Yankees have 1 WS and 1 ALCS appearance and the twins have zippo :) Go Yankees

  333. Jerkface January 2nd, 2011 at 2:29 am

    I’ve run the numbers and it looks like the Yankees postseason ERA in history is 3.78 and the Twins is 4.30.

    Looks like the Yankees strategy is better? Oh wait, comparing samples which do not necessarily include the factors being discussed doesn’t make any sense? Oops, someone tell Randy.

  334. Pat M. January 2nd, 2011 at 3:08 am

    Face….Happy New Year….You missed the party, everybody has gone to bed…..

  335. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 7:44 am

    Good morning.

    I sure hope Doreen was not attacked by any Tiguans.

    They’re dangerous critters.

    :)

  336. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 7:47 am

    Prices are gonna drop and Cashman’s gonna shop ( I hope).

    Is next week the time when Andy returns to the fold ?

    Let’s hope so.

    :)

  337. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 7:53 am

    Our cup runneth over.

    We have the deepest catching pipeline in all of baseball.

    And we’re overflowing with Minor league pitching talent.

    The Yankee minor league tree is about to bear some serious fruit.

    I can’t wait.

    :)

  338. blake January 2nd, 2011 at 7:54 am

    Morning MTU,

    I see you survived new years eve…I think we begin to hear things a Andy this week…..hopefully its good news. The markets should.start moving now that the Hollidays are over

  339. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 8:00 am

    The way Boston spent money this off season it must have stung pretty bad being on the outside looking in last season.

    Now that they are destined to be the new 1927 Yankees we should just throw in the towel. Dontcha think ?

    Screw it. Let’s just bow down and forfeit the season before a single game is played.

    Whatdya say people. Should we quit while we’re ahead ?

    Get while the gettin’ is good.

    Vamoose our caboose.

    :)

  340. Doreen January 2nd, 2011 at 8:01 am

    Good morning, MTU, and morning people.

    The research showed that, indeed, the name is a hybrid (even if the car is not) of Tiger plus Iguana, and it was the result of a people poll. I don’t know which people. But the other alternatives for the name of the car were considerably worse, believe me. :)

    I get Tiger. I don’t understand Iguana. My parents have a house on a canal in Florida and there is a huge iguana that has made their backyard his rest stop. It’s ugly. And the Tiguan is not ugly. Perhaps iguanas are tough, and so they want to make the point that the car is tough enough to withstand the elements.

  341. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 8:03 am

    Blake-

    Yes. You too apparently.

    Hope you and yours have a healthy, happy and prosperous NY.

    Use your influence. Put in a call to good your buddy Andy. Tell him we need him back.

    I’d appreciate it very much.

    ;)

  342. Doreen January 2nd, 2011 at 8:06 am

    MTU -

    I’ll take my chances. My guess is the Yankees and Red Sox split their games, as usual.

    The Red Sox have improved, but the Blue Jays and Orioles have a chance of being real spoilers (though that applies for the Yankees, as well).

    It’ll be an interesting year in the AL East.

  343. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 8:06 am

    Doreen-

    Iguanas can handle the land and the sea.

    Maybe that’s where it comes from.

    The Tiguan. It’s strong and fast like a Tiger, and can handle the land or the water like an Iguana. It can do it all.

    :)

  344. blake January 2nd, 2011 at 8:08 am

    Doreen,

    An F150 is what you need…all purpose vehicle. ;)

    MTU,
    Same to you….I got a good feelin about Andy.

  345. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 8:08 am

    Doreen-

    Looking at my crystal ball I would say the Red Sox will take the first 8 games. Most people will panic. And then, the Yankees will take the remainder. And everyone will say, “See I told you so.”.

    :)

  346. Doreen January 2nd, 2011 at 8:10 am

    MTU -

    AHA!

    One of the features of the Tiguan is “hot wax flooding” :

    “Before we put the sheet metal on your Tiguan, we put it through a treatment called hot wax flooding to fill any tiny spaces and remove moisture in the hardest to reach areas. The result of that process helps make the body so watertight that we’re able to offer a 12-year limited warranty against corrosion.”

    So there’s where the Iguana comes in!!!

  347. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 8:10 am

    Blake-

    Al and I are looking to get a pair of used M1A1′s.

    Tell me that wouldn’t be sweet.

    ;)

  348. Doreen January 2nd, 2011 at 8:11 am

    MTU -

    Just like 2009. ;)

  349. blake January 2nd, 2011 at 8:12 am

    MTU,

    Yes it would!

  350. upstate kate January 2nd, 2011 at 8:13 am

    good morning early birds!
    party time is over…time to get down to business!

  351. Doreen January 2nd, 2011 at 8:14 am

    MTU -

    These were the other names being considered for the Tiguan: Namib, Rockton, Samun, and Nanuk.

  352. Doreen January 2nd, 2011 at 8:16 am

    Good morning kate -

    Down to business indeed.

    Bringing daughter back home today. Other daughter goes back to school tomorrow. Hubby starts a new job (with same company) in the Big Apple (he was 10 minutes from home) tomorrow.

    And I get to put away Christmas.

    :)

  353. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 8:16 am

    Doreen-

    I have some beautiful pictures of a male Iguana I took while on vacation.

    I’ll try to dig them up.

    They are much larger than you would think. Almost like miniature Komoda dragons with more style.

    Just like your Tiguan will have.

    Are you sure you don’t prefer the larger “Tuoareg” ?

    You seem to like names that begin with the letter “T”.

    :)

  354. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 8:19 am

    edit: “Komodo”. Duh.

    :(

  355. Doreen January 2nd, 2011 at 8:21 am

    MTU -

    They do look like dragons. The one that stops by to visit the parents is the largest one I’ve ever seen. They’re not pretty, but they are interesting looking.

    Nah, the Touareg is bigger than what I need.

    I’m very particular. I have gone years looking for just the right “whatever.” :)

  356. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 8:21 am

    Doreen-

    I like straighforward names for cars.

    Like “Edsel”, “Tucker”, “Chord”, “Nash”, “Hudson”, or “Dusy”.

    None of that stuff that requires you to be a linguistics expert.

    ;)

  357. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 8:23 am

    Doreen-

    I’m sure your husband is very flattered.

    But is he content being a “whatever” ?

    :)

  358. upstate kate January 2nd, 2011 at 8:24 am

    our son still has 2 weeks off before he returns…he is hopefully going to do some job shadowing

    We hosted our annual “games day” yesterday…board games or ping pong, no video games. I just need to do a quick vacuum and I am ready to face the New Year…not ready to face putting away the Christmas stuff tho!

  359. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 8:27 am

    Kate-

    All I do now is job shadow. Thankfully.

    And even worse, I’m just a shadow of my former self.

    :(

  360. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 8:29 am

    Doreen-

    And I really dig cars with code names like GTO, 442, and the like.

    ;)

  361. Doreen January 2nd, 2011 at 8:31 am

    upstate kate-

    That sounds like a great idea (games day). I might borrow it.

    MTU -

    I knew I wanted to marry my husband immediately!!! :)

  362. upstate kate January 2nd, 2011 at 8:35 am

    Doreen
    we have been doing it for years. It started when the kids were getting too involved w/ video games. Now many of them are in college and it is a chance for them to catch up w/ family friends.

  363. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 8:37 am

    Doreen-

    I found that picture.

    Here he is.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/cy.....IyQ-rXwDw#

    1/2 half of your Tiguan.

    Enjoy.

    :)

  364. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 8:37 am

    Good morning all you TEE …..JON people, or ladies with a hot wax coming. Did I get that right?

    blake -

    Ford F-150, a great vehicle, got one, and love it.

  365. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 8:43 am

    Doreen -

    Have you considered a Ford Escape. A very good vehicle, super safety rating, and 28 MPG on the highway. The Ford SYNC option is really super, and the best Nav system of any car co.

    http://www.ford.com/suvs/escape/?searchid=426441|28124903|205370172

  366. upstate kate January 2nd, 2011 at 8:43 am

    he is a beauty MTU…we had an iguana once, actually it belonged to my husband’s science class, but we got it on breaks.

  367. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 8:44 am

    Mike -

    You look younger in that picture.

  368. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 8:44 am

    Al-

    Ford’s are great trucks. Nearly indestructible. I used to own a F250.

    The trouble was they didn’t work too well in places like this.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/cy.....Zqx5p2nQA#

    :)

  369. upstate kate January 2nd, 2011 at 8:46 am

    Big Al
    we have been a Honda family for years. One of our work vehicles is a Ford Escape, which I get to drive once in awhile. I love it!! I have recommended it to my husband for when he is ready to replace his CR-V.

  370. Doreen January 2nd, 2011 at 8:47 am

    Big Al -

    LOL!

    MTU -

    Great picture! And I see that iguana also had tiger striping. Cool.

  371. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 8:48 am

    Kate-

    he sure was. Beautiful critter. Nice of him to cooperate for the photo.

    Way bigger than one would think.

    Al-

    Yes. But I still liked to pose for the camera. Or was that have the camera pose me ?

    Oh well, I’m still confused as always.

    :)

  372. blake January 2nd, 2011 at 8:50 am

    I went truck shopping with my father in law a few days ago…..Ford really has some neat vehicles.right now.

  373. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 8:52 am

    kate -

    My daughter-in-law bought an Escape, and she loves it. Great in bad weather, the sync and Nav systems are super. All she does is rave about her suv. The gas mileage Ford posted was 28 MPG on the highway, but, on a trip from NJ to Cape Cod, she averaged 31 MPG. Besides, I like to buy American, and the service records on Fords is now #1 in the USA, edging Honda as the most reliable car manufacturer. Quality reports on VW have not been that good.

  374. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 8:55 am

    Al-

    I was trying to point that out to Doreen but she has apparently fallen in love with the Tiguan.

    At least I tried. She can’t blame me.

    :(

  375. ron January 2nd, 2011 at 8:56 am

    I know the rs are a good team & just got better but the only position on the field where they are better for sure is lf.

    1st base maybe a slight edge to a-gone because if he can do what he did in petco,imagine what he will do in fenway,but tex i’m sure would put sick numbers up in fenway also.

    We have the edge at 2b,ss,3b,c,rf,cf. so it will come down too pitching & there is no way the rs have better pitching than the phillies or the giants.

    I would like too see the yankees build a sick rotation 1-4 & worry about the offense secondary instead of the other way around.

    I know i’ts hard too buy pitching but a combination of buying & homegrown should do it.

    I think cashman could of traded for pitchers like cain & sanchez at a certain time in the past before they became very good.That is where imo he makes his mistakes.

    We should of traded for one pitcher when vaz & burnett imploded.
    I also don’t have much hope for burnett getting much better.

    I think where we will struggle this year is using hughes as a number 2 & burnett as a number 3 pitcher when they should be dropped down a slot,3 & 4,problem is we have no number 2.

    Cashman should not of waited for lee,even the first time.
    He should of kept going til we landed a pitcher.

    If hughes does not pitch like a number 2 & burnett a number 3 pitcher it puts much more stress on the 3rd & 4th rotation spots.

  376. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 8:57 am

    blake -

    I have an 2009 F-150 Platinum Seies truck. It rides better than most luxury cars, and has all the bells and whistles of a top of the line Lincoln, or more. The 2011 models now offer a 411 HP V8, that gets better mileage than my 325 HP model. Tell your father if he buys an F-150, he’ll love it.

  377. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 8:59 am

    Blake-

    Too bad your name isn’t Ernie.

    You’re from TN and you like Fords, right ?

    You aren’t a closet entertainer are you ?

    (In addition to your job torturing people that is)

    :)

  378. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 9:03 am

    Doreen -

    J.D. Powers ratings, side by side VW Tiguan vs. Ford Escape.

    http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars.....mpare+Cars

  379. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 9:04 am

    MTU -

    Being politically correct, you should never ask if they are in a closet, or something like that.

  380. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 9:07 am

    MTU -

    The trouble was they didn’t work too well in places like this.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/cy…..Zqx5p2nQA#

    ***********************************************
    Mike – Forget the truck fitting in there, I can’t fit in there. Had to look twice, at first I thought it was an X-Rated picture, my bad.

  381. Doreen January 2nd, 2011 at 9:08 am

    Big Al -

    Consumer Reports isn’t glowing about the Escape, though they said it made enough improvements for them to be able to recommend it.

    I haven’t made any commitment yet. I could take a look at one and take it for a spin. CR says it’s really noisy, though, and they don’t like the “fit and finish.” (Can you tell I’m sitting here with my CR by my side???? :lol: ) They also said the handling is “imprecise.”

    But it was one of the cars my husband was hoping would make the cut.

    Also, this is going to sound very “girlie,” but the Escape really has a truck-face and I’m partial to prettier car faces. (You know, the headlights are the eyes and the grille is the smile?) I said it was “girlie.”

  382. Doreen January 2nd, 2011 at 9:09 am

    Big Al -

    There’s something about the JD Power ratings that leaves me skeptical.

  383. Bronx Jeers January 2nd, 2011 at 9:09 am

    I saw one of those big pick up trucks stuck in about 2 inches of snow. Not sure if it was a Ford but the owner seemed pretty embarrassed as this happened on a one lane-one way street and he had about 10 cars behind him. I think a few people came out and rocked him out.

    I actually like the Ford Edge if we’re talking about hybrids. Then again it might have something to do with the thousands of commercials I’ve seen on YES.

  384. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Al-

    LoL.

    You have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that you are insane.

    Welcome to the club.

    :)

  385. blake January 2nd, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Al,

    He already did ;)

  386. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Doreen -

    You being the lady you are, it should be girlie, if that’s what pleases you. Take a close look at the Escape Limited, and test drive one. I believe after doing so, you’ll put down the CR and trust your own experience.

  387. blake January 2nd, 2011 at 9:12 am

    MTU,

    im from NC ;)

  388. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 9:14 am

    Jeers-

    “Rocked out”.

    Where have I heard that before ?

    Can’t seem to remember now.

    I know it was in a place long ago and far away though.

    :)

  389. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 9:15 am

    Jeers -

    The only time a Ford truck I’ve owned got stuck, was when I drove an F-250 into a snow bank 12′ high, thinking I’d have fun driving over it, and it turned out to be soft snow, and I went in over the axels. Dumb is, what dumb does.

  390. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 9:16 am

    Blake-

    I should have known. Forgive me.

    I mistook your current GPS point for your true love.

    :(

  391. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 9:16 am

    blake -

    I’m in NC as well, not too far from Winston-Salem.

  392. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 9:18 am

    MTU -

    You can’t say I didn’t warn you I was nuts, but, now you have proof, lol.

  393. blake January 2nd, 2011 at 9:19 am

    MTU,

    Im just allowing TN for borrow me for awhile. :)

  394. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 9:20 am

    MTU -

    I can’t understand how you can go hiking and find your way back, your sense of direction is way off. TN. is not NC, you need to fix your computer GPS system.

  395. Native Bronxite January 2nd, 2011 at 9:22 am

    For the New Year please eliminate those annoying 1 inch by 9 inches ads that block out your content. They have no close X nor does clicking on them eliminate them when you go back to the content.

  396. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 9:22 am

    Blake-

    In either case you live in a very interesting area.

    Worthy of exploration.

    :)

  397. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 9:23 am

    Al-

    I’m just fine when I’m navigating within the Bermuda Triangle.

  398. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 9:25 am

    MTU -

    Your message to blake, here you go …………..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIfu2A0ezq0

  399. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 9:26 am

    blake -

    You loan yourself out to states?

  400. tyanksfan36 January 2nd, 2011 at 9:26 am

    All this talk of fancy cars. Personally I’m a Toyota fan. I drive a 99 corolla and its the most reliable piece of garbage out there. I think in the 5 years I’ve owned it, I’ve only had the oil changed maybe 6 times. Its got like 150K miles on it. The only thing I’ve had to replace is the starter and the front indoor door handles. The windshield should be fixed cause my dad shot it with his pellet gun but it hasn’t cracked yet in 5 years.

  401. blake January 2nd, 2011 at 9:29 am

    Al,

    Yea…they don’t pay that well though.

  402. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 9:30 am

    Al-

    Blake is a PT bounty hunter.

    ;)

  403. austinmac January 2nd, 2011 at 9:30 am

    MTU,

    That was a very cool photo of the canyon or whatever geologic name applies.

    I do think we will likely know about Pettitte’s desires this week.

  404. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 9:33 am

    Austin-

    I sure hope so. It’s been a while.

  405. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 9:33 am

    MTU -

    Are you kidding me? A PT bounty hunter, maybe he can track down, and get rid of some folks for us, hee, hee!

  406. Doreen January 2nd, 2011 at 9:33 am

    tyanksfan36 -

    I’m a creature comforts sort, I guess. :?

  407. Doreen January 2nd, 2011 at 9:34 am

    I expect Yankees news by Wednesday.

  408. Bronx Jeers January 2nd, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Yeah “rocked out” didn’t sound right but that’s exactly what they did. :smile:

    To me those escapes don’t have a lot of room. I recall going camping and three people with gear filled it up to capacity.

    It might have been all the beer though.

  409. tyanksfan36 January 2nd, 2011 at 9:37 am

    Doreen

    I’ve wanted a BMW since before I could drive. Its my goal car to get in the future, I’ve read that they aren’t very reliable but my friend had one and I loved it so I can overlook that detail. You should get a car that you like regardless of was CR says. If you like it, that’s all that matters.

  410. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 9:37 am

    Doreen -

    Have you looked at the Ford Edge, or is that too big for you?

  411. AldotheApache January 2nd, 2011 at 9:38 am

    Cagers!

    I’ll take my Honda 750 ACE (American Classic Edition) any day over ‘em all.

    Of course, if it wasn’t 73 degrees outside my front door, I might feel differently.

  412. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 9:39 am

    Back later – Play nice.

  413. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 9:42 am

    Aldo-

    You mean like this :

    http://picasaweb.google.com/cy.....qviLr18wE#

    :)

  414. MaineYankee January 2nd, 2011 at 9:42 am

    Doreen

    Stop using sabermetrics to choose your next vechile and go with your gut feeling. :lol:

    I thought I would stir up things this morning. :lol:

  415. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 9:44 am

    Maine-

    I agree. Forget the numbers.

    Enough with the sacred cows.

    :)

  416. AldotheApache January 2nd, 2011 at 9:45 am

    MTU, majestic!

  417. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 9:46 am

    Aldo-

    Just call me Charles Bronson.

    ;)

  418. Doreen January 2nd, 2011 at 9:52 am

    tyanksfan36 -

    I had always wanted an Audi. :)

    Maine Yankee -

    When we were in Illinois for the 2 years we bought a Toyota truck that I can’t even remember the name of. I never liked it (though it drove quite well) and hated getting into it every day we owned it. I was very happy to get rid of it. So, I know from experience that I have to like the car I’m driving on a few different levels. I’ve loved my MDX and the only reason I’m getting rid of it is it is too big for me at this point.

    Big Al -

    The Edge is too big for what me. Even Derek Jeter himself, in person, couldn’t convince me to buy it. :)

  419. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 9:54 am

    Doreen-

    “Even Derek Jeter himself, in person, couldn’t convince me to buy it.”

    RU sure ?

    Because I can make a call.

    :)

  420. MaineYankee January 2nd, 2011 at 9:58 am

    Doreen

    I’ve told my wife when we are looking for a car we want to like to drive it rather than dislike it every time we get into it.

    We at times have been at odds when we are looking for a car and I told her when we find the right one we both will know it.

    That has proven true most every time.

    Of course when for some reason it has proven to not be the best choice for you would think I made the choice alone. :lol:

  421. Doreen January 2nd, 2011 at 10:07 am

    MTU -

    I’m sure.

    But I’d let him try…

    :)

  422. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 10:09 am

    Doreen -

    Why not just rent a few of the cars you’re interested in for 3 days each, and really drive them, not just a simple test drive, and then you’ll know which one you really like the most.

    If you always wanted an Audi, get one. If the one you want is too costly, lease it rather than buy, as long as you don’t drive more than 15,000 miles a year.

    I love Audi’s myself, the next car I buy will be an Audi A10.

  423. blake January 2nd, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Doreen,

    Did you drive a Lexus RX?

  424. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Doreen-

    You could speak with Jeter for an hour and still not know what he meant.

    Just look at the way he handles the press.

    After he is inducted into the HOF he should become a Politician.

    :)

  425. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 10:14 am

    MTU -

    That light just went on, Doreen being given a test drive by Jeter, using all his charm to convince her to buy the Edge, but alas, he fails at his mission, and feeling so rejected, retires from baseball and becomes a recluse.

  426. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 10:14 am

    Al-

    Aside from the M1A1 I’m going with the new Bugatti, or I’ll slum and just accept James Cagney’s old Dusenberg.

    :)

  427. MaineYankee January 2nd, 2011 at 10:15 am

    MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 10:12 am
    Doreen-

    You could speak with Jeter for an hour and still not know what he meant.

    Just look at the way he handles the press.

    After he is inducted into the HOF he should become a Politician.

    ———————————————————————————–

    Or he could be the next GM.

  428. Doreen January 2nd, 2011 at 10:15 am

    blake -

    Yes. My husband has a Lexus something or other, and when I brought it in for maintenance I got an RX as a loaner car. I liked it. It’s, again, a little bigger than I want. :)

    Big Al -

    I no longer have the same attraction to Audi that I once had. Much like my crush on Paul McCartney, it’s faded with time.

  429. joeman January 2nd, 2011 at 10:16 am

    without the Jeter & Mo signings this off-season what have the Yankees done ? This roster is what you see what you get for 2011

  430. pat January 2nd, 2011 at 10:17 am

    Almost 2 years removed, it appears Alex is still honoring his commitment to try and turn the negative of using PEDs into a positive.

    http://www.dallasnews.com/shar.....c2dfc.html

  431. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 10:17 am

    Maine-

    He needs to practice his patience and rappelling skills before he can take on that assignment.

    ;)

  432. RhapsodyInBlue January 2nd, 2011 at 10:17 am

    Doreen, Have you looked at any comparable Toyotas?

    I’ve owned 8 of them never had any problems with any.

    For awhile I traveled the USA installing phone equip, typically drove around 50k per year.

    A few of my trucks had close to 300k when we parted.

    My last 2 made in the states have the same quality.

    They make some nice small suvs. The rav is one I know of.

  433. Bronx Jeers January 2nd, 2011 at 10:17 am

    I haven’t owned s car in 20 years (Ford Escort) but if I was in Doreens shoes I’d take a long hard look at that Audi stationwagon. That car’s hot.

    I also like those Subaru 4wheel drive wagons.

    Stationwagons are very sexy. :smile:

  434. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 10:18 am

    Mike -

    I love to own a Dusenberg, but, only if Doreen would take me for a test ride before, and give it her seal of approval.

    If Doreen takes enough long test rides, she may not need to buy anything.

  435. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Al-

    Good point.

    Why be a buyer when you can be a perpetual shopper.

    Best of all worlds.

    :)

  436. blake January 2nd, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Doreen,

    Gotcha

  437. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 10:23 am

    I think we should all go back to the horse and buggy.

    Forget these “horseless” carriages.

    They make too much noise and create too much pollution.

    And they won’t run on Hay.

    They’re pretty to look at but What good are they ?

    They’ll never last as long as a good horse.

    :)

  438. RhapsodyInBlue January 2nd, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Some these owners of 4w drive pickups decrease the effectiveness of 4w drive by having over sized tires on the vehicles.

    It inhibits traction in snow. The truck tends to hydroplane, I speak from experience.

    Many snowy nights I’ve driven home from locations in Buffalo or up in the Adirondacks in my Toyotas tearing up virgin snow.

  439. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 10:24 am

    Doreen-

    This is your new car. Stop shopping, go to the dealer and buy this now, you will be very satisfied, love the luxury, and feel like a new person, I personally guarentee it!

    http://models.audiusa.com/q5

  440. pat January 2nd, 2011 at 10:24 am

    Doreen

    Location of the cupholders was the deciding factor on our last car purchase. It’s the little things that matter sometimes. :smile:

  441. MaineYankee January 2nd, 2011 at 10:24 am

    Bronx

    The Suburu Outback is very popular here.

    My son bought one last summer and really likes it.

    Being AWD helps it be more popular.

  442. MaineYankee January 2nd, 2011 at 10:26 am

    MTU

    Don’t forget the horse gives off emissions that polute as well.

  443. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 10:27 am

    Doreen-

    Whatever you decide just be happy.

    Time to create some “Pupdemonium”.

  444. pat January 2nd, 2011 at 10:28 am

    The LoHud seems to have one of everything but have we no car dealers here who want to make Doreen an offer she can’t refuse by giving her the family price on a lovely new vehicle?

  445. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 10:28 am

    Maine-

    True. But you can spread that on fields as fertilizer.

    What can you do with a rusty old car, or a sponge on wheels ?

    :)

  446. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Maine -

    But those emissions can be used to grow the crops that feed the horse, that provides the emissions that grows the crops ……………………………………………

  447. joeman January 2nd, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Yankee Blog & have been talking about cars since 7 pm last night……goes to show you the state of the Yankees this boring off season

  448. RhapsodyInBlue January 2nd, 2011 at 10:32 am

    Surprising that only you would notice.

    “Yankee Blog & have been talking about cars since 7 pm last night……goes to show you the state of the Yankees this boring off season”

  449. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Doreen -

    Dealers here in NC are offering car sales at $500 to $1,000 below dealer invoice. Keep that in mind when shopping. There is no better time to buy. If you choose to lease, then lease a 2011 model year, the residual is higher than a 2010 model year, thus the monthly payments would be lower.

  450. MaineYankee January 2nd, 2011 at 10:34 am

    MTU, Big Al

    They are regulating that more all the time and have talked about assessing a fee for the methane that animals emit.

    You have to keep a log of the amount of “fertilizer” thay spread on the field now.

  451. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 10:35 am

    Maine – Trap that methane, and heat the house and barn, now we’re cooking with gas.

  452. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 10:36 am

    Maine-

    That sounds like bullsh*t to me.

    :)

    Now I really have to go.

  453. MaineYankee January 2nd, 2011 at 10:36 am

    joeman January 2nd, 2011 at 10:29 am
    Yankee Blog & have been talking about cars since 7 pm last night……goes to show you the state of the Yankees this boring off season

    ———————————————————————-

    Don’t forget randy talking about escaping from Tijuana ahead of the law.

  454. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 10:37 am

    Maine -

    Do they have a poop inspector come around and weigh each emission?

  455. MaineYankee January 2nd, 2011 at 10:38 am

    Big Al

    I think a farm in Vermont did somethig to use the methane but I can’t remember what.

  456. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 10:38 am

    As usual MTU, you’ve got it wrong again, it’s horse s**t.

  457. MaineYankee January 2nd, 2011 at 10:40 am

    All the hot air from here would heat a big building. :lol:

  458. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 10:43 am

    Maine -

    There was a story on TV recently about using methane gas for power, but, I just can’t remember what and where. Talk about going green, what better way than to recycle all these resources.

    If I had a farm, I’d take advantage of the federal program to build wind mills, generate enough power for my needs, and sell the rest back to the power company.

  459. MTU January 2nd, 2011 at 10:43 am

    Al-

    Picky. Picky.

    I’m sure Maine got the drift, in a manner of speaking.

    Ever hear of Cowpies ?

    Box ‘em up and use ‘em as fuel.

    Just don’t try sellin’ ‘em as real “Pies” is all.

    :)

    Gotta go, or there’s a dogpie to clean.

  460. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 10:44 am

    Maine -

    Point well made.

  461. Fran the original January 2nd, 2011 at 10:45 am

    I expect Yankees news by Wednesday.
    ***************************
    Yankees Hot Stove on YES comes back on Thursday night. Hopefully they’ll have some Yankees news to report.

  462. MaineYankee January 2nd, 2011 at 10:45 am

    Big Al

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/n.....ower_x.htm

    ————————————————————————–

    Here is one story of many I found on this subject.

  463. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 10:45 am

    Fran -

    Good morning, long time.

  464. MaineYankee January 2nd, 2011 at 10:48 am

    joeman

    I hope this change of subject is to your liking. :lol:

  465. JCPD January 2nd, 2011 at 10:50 am

    What can you do with a rusty old car, or a sponge on wheels ?

    ————————————————————-

    MTU, in many areas of the country I’ve seen them used as lawn ornaments!!!

  466. Fran the original January 2nd, 2011 at 10:51 am

    Hi Big Al,

    Hope all is well with you and your family. Happy New Year.
    Haven’t posted much lately since there doesn’t seem to be much Yankees news going on. Hope that will change soon.

  467. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 10:53 am

    Maine -

    Thanks for the link, great story. It only makes sense to use the by product, rather than deal with the problems it could cause in the enviorment.

  468. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 10:55 am

    JCPD -

    Coming from NY State, I can believe that, about your lawn ornaments.

    Good morning, no classes today.

  469. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 10:57 am

    Fran -

    Happy and Healthy new year to you and yours.

    Sure hope we get some positive news from Andy this week. Perhaps after his vacation, his family has seen enough of him, and tell him to play one more year.

  470. Carlo January 2nd, 2011 at 10:59 am

    Add fertilizer and fuel to the list of things this blog has field “experts” handling.

  471. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 11:02 am

    Fran -

    I haven’t heard from trisha since Christmas, I hope she got through the holiday OK, I know it’s a very difficult time for her.

  472. Fran the original January 2nd, 2011 at 11:02 am

    Sure hope we get some positive news from Andy this week. Perhaps after his vacation, his family has seen enough of him, and tell him to play one more year.
    ************************
    LOL. Hope you’re right. The Yankees really need Andy.

  473. JCPD January 2nd, 2011 at 11:03 am

    Hey Al, no classes…… I’m in Corning now, on my way out the door to drive back to Syr for my final three weeks of hotel living. Well hopefully the final three…… they are keeping me an extra week.

  474. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 11:05 am

    Fran -

    You know how it is, you miss someone so much, but, after being around them none stop, you kind of wish they just went back to work, so you can enjoy that private time you got use to.

  475. Fran the original January 2nd, 2011 at 11:05 am

    Big Al,

    I heard from her on Friday. Holidays are the most difficult time, especially the first one after a loss.

  476. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 11:06 am

    JCPD -

    Is that because you’re slow, or they just thought you needed more time, lol.

    When you mentioned the Matthews location, where you talking about in NC?

  477. Fran the original January 2nd, 2011 at 11:07 am

    JCPD,

    Do they still make glasses and dishware in Corning? I remember when I was younger my parents would take us to the Corning glass factory.

    Good luck with the rest of your training.

  478. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Fran -

    I’ll E-mail her, I just didn’t want to interfere during the holidays.

    I miss her being here.

  479. Fran the original January 2nd, 2011 at 11:12 am

    Big Al,

    I think that once the season gets going she’ll be back.

  480. JCPD January 2nd, 2011 at 11:12 am

    Al, yes, Matthews, NC is where I was talking about. I stayed in the kitchen for an extra week, I just didn’t feel comfortable coming out after three weeks. It’s nice to work for a company that’s flexible and would rather spend a few extra training dollars to make sure things are right than to waste all the training dollars and be wrong. It really is info overload and I’ve never been through anything quite like this.

  481. pat January 2nd, 2011 at 11:12 am

    Orioles closer Alfredo Simon is acussed of killing one in a shooting incident in Luperon, Puerto Plata
    about 1 hour ago

  482. YsGuy January 2nd, 2011 at 11:12 am

    orioles closer alfredo simon is the prime suspect in a new year’s eve murder and attempted murder in the D.R.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

  483. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 11:16 am

    JCPD -

    It would be great if you got assigned to Matthews, NC. That’s about 1 1/4 hours from my home, so we could get together.

    You won’t get the pictures of the winters falls down here, but, there are many other areas I’m sure you might enjoy. The Blue Ridge Hwy, a ride west to the Great Smokey Mts., lots to look forward to.

  484. MaineYankee January 2nd, 2011 at 11:19 am

    Big Al

    BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 10:53 am
    Maine -

    Thanks for the link, great story. It only makes sense to use the by product, rather than deal with the problems it could cause in the enviorment.

    ——————————————————————————————

    The only problem is like any thing the Govt. is involved in it is over regulated.

  485. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 11:19 am

    JCPD -

    When you finally get home, you’ll need some time off to spend with Dakota, I’m sure he’ll go crazy seeing you, or bite you in the butt for leaving him. Buy extra treats!

  486. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 11:20 am

    leaving her ..

  487. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 11:21 am

    MTU -

    Are you back, or did the mops take you for a hike?

  488. YsGuy January 2nd, 2011 at 11:22 am

    “yeah, who needs regulation”…goldman sachs

    “yeah, goldman is right”….BP

  489. YsGuy January 2nd, 2011 at 11:28 am

    i was gonna make a union carbide/bhopal reference but i figured most posters here are too young to know what that is…

  490. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Catch you all later.

  491. randy l. January 2nd, 2011 at 11:30 am

    “MTU, in many areas of the country I’ve seen them used as lawn ornaments!!!”

    up where maine yankee lives, there are lots of lawn ornaments :)

  492. MaineYankee January 2nd, 2011 at 11:48 am

    randy

    You mean planters?

    Or storage?

  493. MaineYankee January 2nd, 2011 at 11:51 am

    randy

    I’ve been wondering if you are allowed to return to Farmington or are they watching for you at the border? :lol:

  494. Gary January 2nd, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    Well January 2nd and no decison from Andy. I suspect at some point he will call the clubhoiuse boy in Tampa to let him know if he needs a locker for spring training.

  495. randy l. January 2nd, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    maine yankee-

    i think it’s an in joke about old junk cars in some people’s front yards up there that only you and me get.
    my grandfather up in jonesport used to have about 3-4 old volkswagen beetles in the front yard out near the chicken coop and well. one of them at any time ran. he would borrow parts from one for another.

    he had all kinds of stuff in the yard. tourists in cars with new york plates in the summer would always be coming up to his house to ask about the “antiques”. he would say to me “watch this”, and would open the door with his shotgun in his hands .

    i would laugh like crazy as the tourists took off. pretty funny.

  496. LGY January 2nd, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    The above comments on sabermetrics are just not true – if they were, major league teams would not have scouts. The stands are filled with them at every game, using their experience, their eyes, talking to other scouts and players, making subjective evaluations that statistical analysis cannot.

    An example. A scout’s person-to person dialogue with team reps reveal that a given player had the flu a few days ago and although recovered was not at full speed. The scout notes that and passes it on with his evaluations – the stats don’t reflect it at all. Stat lovers might say that is a statistically insignificant and that may be true about that one four game series and 16 at bats. But over the course of a season there are a myriad of other human factors that come into play that effect a players performance, both mental and physical, that are not reflected statistically in a way that accounts for any disparity.

    I like stats. Baseball is in large part about stats. They are a part of the picture not all of it as some seem to suggest.

    ————————-

    LMAO :lol:

    How did you take a bunch of comments about how scouting is indeed important, but that the Eckersley slider thing was a really dumb example and turn it into this?

  497. MaineYankee January 2nd, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    randy

    I know an old farmer that has an old truck in his field with weeds growing in the back. He has been asked many times if he would sell it and of course it still sits in the field.

  498. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    LGY -

    Because that’s what a guy, that gets all his baseball knowledge, from reading SI does.

  499. joeman January 2nd, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    # Gary January 2nd, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    Well January 2nd and no decison from Andy. I suspect at some point he will call the clubhoiuse boy in Tampa to let him know if he needs a locker for spring training.
    ————————————————
    Andy was done playing baseball after the 10 season, unless they make a trade for a SP this staff they have now is what it is, nothing left on the FA market for SP is worth signing…might be a RP in the FA market they could use

  500. West Coast Yankee Fan January 2nd, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    The Eckersley slider was not a dumb example. It was a perfect example of how a scout saw something with his eyes and how it had great relevance. There is a reason major league teams employ so many scouts even today. There is no substitute for human experience and subjective evaluation and assessment in my opinion. Statistics are extremely valuable as is new technology and computer simulations and tracking. But they are just a part of the picture and some inflate their importance.

  501. LGY January 2nd, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    No baseball talk really, so just wanted to add something to the manager discussion from last night.

    The problem with the gut v stat manager discussions is that we only ever hear/talk about or remember the extremes.

    For gut managers we only ever know about and talk about the successes. We never know about the countless times the bad hot dog the manager ate earlier in the day gave the manager bad info. We also never know how often the gut manager uses stats to make decisions.

    For stat managers we only ever remember the failures. We never talk about the countless times the stats were right. And we never know how often Girardi really does use his gut.

    Fans generally only focus on these great “gut” stories like GB shared last night and great stat failures like the ALCS in 2009 vs the Angels in the “matchup game”

    Ideally I want a manager to make his decisions based on all the info he has plus his general baseball intellect.

    Occasionally, I want a manager to go with his “gut.” For example leaving Joba in when he is throwing really well instead of going with the better matchup. Or playing Thames against a RHP because he is swinging the bat so well recently.

    I never want Girardi to just completely make something up though and make some illogical move just because the cheeseburger in his gut told him to.

    And tbh we really have no idea how much Girardi does use his gut, because the only thing that really stands out with him is when his stats fail him.

  502. West Coast Yankee Fan January 2nd, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    Hey Al would you like me to resurrect your post from the other day? I am sure you know which one I am talking about.

  503. BIG AL January 2nd, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    WCYF -

    Have trouble talking baseball when someone takes apart your point, as LGY did?

    The only thing you can quote about baseball, is what your sports writer hero’s write about.

    I doubt you ever played the game, other than grammer school, and you were the kid no one wanted on his team.

    I’m glad to see you care enough to keep track of all my posts, that does say a lot about you, and your personality, or lack there of. I imagine you don’t have any real live anyway.

    When you can’t come back at LGY, or others, with a better point, you need to attack the person, not the post. So do your thing, it don’t matter to me.

  504. LGY January 2nd, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    :arrow:

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