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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Yankees tentative spring training schedule

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 03, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Sunday, February 13
Manager Joe Girardi addresses the media. Kind of an unofficial start to spring training. Lots of questions about Derek Jeter batting lead-off, who fills the eighth-inning role and whether the Yankees have an obvious favorite to be the fifth starter.

Monday, February 14
Pitchers and catchers report to George M. Steinbrenner Field in Tampa.

Tuesday, February 15
First official workout for pitchers and catchers. If we’re lucky, there will be a bullpen session. Lots of questions about Joba Chamberlain as a reliever, Russell Martin as an everyday catcher and Jorge Posada as a DH.

Sunday, February 20
First full-squad workout. Lots of questions about how Alex Rodriguez’s hip is doing and what Curtis Granderson did to keep up the strides he made late last season. Posada finally stops answering questions about his role (for at least a day or two).

Wednesday, February 23
Spring training photo day. I’m sure the guys will be thrilled when this day rolls around.

Saturday, February 26
First spring training game. The Yankees open the spring schedule at home against the Phillies. Pretty sure Sam will be taking you through this game. I’ll be in a tuxedo at my friend Wade’s wedding.

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169 Responses to “Yankees tentative spring training schedule”

  1. tyanksfan36 January 3rd, 2011 at 8:10 pm

    Can’t wait. I’m thinking of driving down to the field to stand on the bridge and sneak a peek at the action one day, my school schedule will allow me to do that.

  2. Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    Good Info, and quite on point, it seems Chad already has his questionnaire for Girardi ready to go.

    BoJo, if signing Soriano means Joba goes back to the rotation, then I’d strongly consider doing it. Since we don’t know if thats true, I am still against signing Soriano. Relievers stink.

  3. Doreen January 3rd, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    All of a sudden it seems a lot closer than it was a mere minute or so ago….

  4. Yank1 January 3rd, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    Mets sign Chris Capuano

  5. ron January 3rd, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    I guess no montero for a while.

    We are not carrying 3 catchers.
    I think we go with martin,cervelli unless motero forces himself on the team with a good spring.

    Why not go with martin,montero???

    We know montero will give us more offense than cervelli & probably martin.

    I guess they wan’t montero too catch every day in AAA.

  6. Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    Damn Capuano was a guy I thought could help the Yanks.

  7. ron January 3rd, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    If pettitte retires cashman will have too sign a pitcher.I don’t understand why joba can’t start.

  8. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 7:48 pm
    Coke was not going to go into the Yankee rotation, he didn’t even start above AA for crying out loud and now you think its an option when all you whine about is development and innings above AAA.

    LGY January 3rd, 2011 at 7:50 pm
    If Cashman put Phil Coke in the rotation I would start sounding a lot like randy in my dislike for Cash.

    jerkface and lgy-

    so you guys are absolutely sure that coke is going to be a failure as a starter.

    that’s interesting because the tigers gm and manager are doing exactly that.

    of course , you know more than them.

    my point is simply cashman talks development , but then he trades it when he has it.

    cashman doesn’t seem to have the strength of character to maintain a course. the winds blow him all over the place.

  9. tyanksfan36 January 3rd, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    Ron

    The issue with Montero is his defense. It makes more sense for him to get in more time catching everyday in AAA until they decide to bring him up.

  10. austinmac January 3rd, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    I think the question is not who the 5th starter will be but who the 4th and 5th will be. Nova certainly hasn’t earned a spot. To me, they are all mere hopefuls.

  11. Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    If Montero has a good ST he better start the season with the ML club, otherwise randy’s criticisms of Cashman may begin to be real.

  12. Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    Are you talking about the same Tigers which rushed Verlander, Porcello, Bonderman, and Robertson to the big leagues???????? You literally just went on and on endlessly for like 100 years about the Twins and before that letting guys get innings and holy crap AND NOW YOU ARE APPEALING TO THE AUTHORITY OF THE TEAM WHICH HAS QUANTIFIABLY RUSHED ITS PITCHERS?

    Yes, they must know a helluva lot.

    Coke is a complete unknown as a starter in the majors. He hasn’t really thrown a third pitch in 2 years. He might be ok, or great even, but that doesn’t mean its a winning move and you sure as hell can’t throw it up in any argument as like ‘look at what Cash is missing out on!’

  13. ron January 3rd, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    Yanks anticipating the end of Andy
    By Benjamin Kabak in Hot Stove League.

  14. 108 stitches January 3rd, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    ron January 3rd, 2011 at 8:19 pm
    If pettitte retires cashman will have too sign a pitcher.I don’t understand why joba can’t start.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The bigger question. Why hasn’t Chamberlain called Cashman / Girardi and expressed a desire to be a starter once again ? He knows what the situation is at the present time.
    Also in the conversation, tell them he’s been working hard and has dropped 20 pounds to get more athletic and will be reporting in 3 weeks with the early arrivals to build some arm strength in preparation of being a starter.

  15. Pat M. January 3rd, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    Tin Cup….Ian was not in the original trade however Arizona demanded him otherwise they were going to veto the 3 way deal……Ian Kennedy is going to have a nice career and will end up earning 60-75 million dollars if not more……He’s going to be a guy who’ll win 15-16 games a season……It’s a shame because he could have been a mainstay in The Bronx contrary to the opinions here ….I love Curtis Granderson but I hated to see Ian leave The Yanks…..

  16. tyanksfan36 January 3rd, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    I would understand bringing up montero if we needed him as DH but all the reports on him say he needs work on his defense. It would in my opinion be better to have him work on defense in AAA and call him up later in the season. Martin has incentives based on games started so they intend him to catch a lot or I don’t think they would have included that. I want to see Montero start the season in NY but I don’t think that will happen but who know.

  17. Doreen January 3rd, 2011 at 8:34 pm

    randy l -

    In fairness, the Tigers are taking a chance that Coke will work out as a starter. He may or he may not.

  18. Hopdevil January 3rd, 2011 at 8:34 pm

    Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    If Montero has a good ST he better start the season with the ML club, otherwise randy’s criticisms of Cashman may begin to be real.

    —————————-

    That could be a tough call. Sure, all things being equal it would seem that Montero (w/ good showing in ST) > Cervelli.

    But does Montero need some more full-time experience behind the plate? I suppose how well Martin starts out will have a bearing. Obviously if Martin struggles early there will be more pressure to bring Montero up. If Martin is decent or better – it might make sense to keep Montero in AAA (at least to start out) for that extra seasoning.

    I don’t know the answer(s) to this question. But it doesn’t seem to be a slam dunk decision either way…

  19. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    BoJo, if signing Soriano means Joba goes back to the rotation, then I’d strongly consider doing it. Since we don’t know if thats true, I am still against signing Soriano. Relievers stink.
    +++++++++++++
    Yes…that is the entire rationale to my interest. Thanks.

  20. Nick in SF January 3rd, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    “i’m just pointing out that almost two years ago , someone as astute as sj44 recognized that cashman had to come through with joba or else his job would be in jeopardy.”

    Unless the Yankees did something crazy like winning the World Series the next year and going to the ALCS the year after that.

    Good grief.

  21. Pat M. January 3rd, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    Doreen…Not certain if you saw my earlier post, but go with The AUDI Q5………Take the leap, you’ll gave no regrets….

  22. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    REPOST–

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    LGY January 3rd, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    Why are you judging 2009 off-season in hindsight, but this season right now? Not really honest to do it that way, unless you are willing to wait a year to judge this offseason (which you clearly have shown you are not)

    **********************

    That is just not true. I have said numerous times in my posts that the off-season is not over and that I hope Cashman will make substantive moves to improve this team. I’m not a gratuitous Cashman basher, I just don’t think he is a great GM.
    +++++++++++
    So what IS your point?

    That Cashman didn’t win it all in 2010? we kind of know that.

    That he sucks as a GM? Based on what? Winning in 2009, turning around the team’s approach to player development that has yielded a top 6 minor league system? Coming within 2 games of the WS last year?\

    Exactly what standard are you comparing him to? Nostradamus?

    If one were to generically define each of Cashman’s past moves, I think we would all sign up for them again.

    Examples–

    1. Acquiring a Cy Young candidate with a history or innings eaten and low era for a 4th OFer with a bad attitude that may have been non-tendered, and some prospects? Sign me up.

    2. Passing on signing a 2 year deal way over market for an aging OFer who no longer can field, blocks the development of an internal prospect with great potential, and who will have limited playing time because of the changing nature of the DH position? Great move!

    3. Signing a 400 OPS player to play DH at $5M for a 1 year deal–low risk/high reward. Great move!! Pegged the DH market perfectly.

    4. Trading an ineffective LHRP, a SP prospect who may not have fared well in AL East, and an OF prospect with limited power for an All Star CFer with a perfect left hand power stroke for the stadium? Sign me up!!

    5. Even the Pavano and Randy Johnson deals would have looked great if defined generically, and most of us would have signed up for them as well.

    However, no one is Nostradamus, and no one can predict how the trades work out. You just go with what you know at the time and take a shot to make the club better.

    The key in evaluation to me is making sure you have enough depth planned for to compensate if the moves don’t work out…and yes, Cashman has done that–unlike other GMs like Minaya or Eppy.

    So I have to say he may not be Nostradamus, but he is doing fine.

  23. Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    “That could be a tough call.”

    I don’t think it’s tough at all.

    “But does Montero need some more full-time experience behind the plate? I suppose how well Martin starts out will have a bearing. Obviously if Martin struggles early there will be more pressure to bring Montero up. If Martin is decent or better – it might make sense to keep Montero in AAA (at least to start out) for that extra seasoning.”

    It should have no bearing. Montero has nothing more to learn at AAA.

    As Steven Goldman said:

    http://www.pinstripedbible.com.....mythology/

    “I am not forgetting that Montero is a square peg. Defensively he is always going to be a project as a catcher—or maybe he will grow into the job in three years, when he will still be younger than many rookies. However, his bat is clearly ready, and he is far more likely to keep the position offensively above-average relative to the competition than Martin is. The Yankees are making a mistake in short-circuiting his bid for the position based on squeamishness about his glove. As with Yogi Berra, you teach, you suffer the pain—which is hopefully no worse than a few extra stolen bases—and in the end you have something special. The Posada route, the alternative that they seem to be taking, is punishing to the player and the team, sacrificing production for the security of a defensive benefit that is imaginary given just how badly the team is giving back runs on offense. Remember, even if Girardi saved the Yankees 10 runs a year on defense, a highly debatable proposition, he gave back 20 on offense (reverse this equation and you have the reason Derek Jeter has been an amazingly valuable player in his career despite his weak range).”

  24. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    “Yes, they must know a helluva lot”

    i would venture to bet that dombrowski and leyland knows more baseball than all of us combined on this blog.

    the biggest problem you have is you know so little you don’t know what you don’t know.

    the point is that coke is a good reliever and a valuable reliever and he can be stretched out to start.

    cashman developed him and then when he was ready to blossom traded him away.

    is cashman going to stick to his plan or his he going to choke every time he gets in a jam and go in a different direction?

    he’s in another jam.

    if he trades montero he needs to be fired . on the spot.

    this is starting to be a reoccurring problem.

  25. Doreen January 3rd, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    Pat M -

    I have no doubt we’d enjoy the Audi. I’m trying to think what we might do with the extra money and whether it’s worth the exchange. :)

  26. comet January 3rd, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    Don’t think Montero will be a Yankee come ST. Cashman will trade him for starting pitching!

  27. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 8:45 pm

    Randy–

    Do you really think that Coke would have been able to crack the Yankee starting rotation and kept that spot as the next wave of young pitchers come up? If not, then his greatest value was as a trade chip because he certainly wasn’t anything too special as a LHRP given his propensity to give up homers to LH hitters like Mauer and Morneau.

    But if you really feel he was going to hold a SP role for the Yankees, then there may be something to discuss.

  28. Doreen January 3rd, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    Randy l -

    You really, really, really think Coke was ready to blossom – as a starter?

    I think Coke did a good job as a lefty out of the pen. I think he was okay as a starter in the minor leagues.

    I don’t think you pass on the opportunity to get a Curtis Granderson, and I think it was a fair deal.

  29. SAS January 3rd, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    I don’t see Cashman’s job at stake over Joba at all. If his signings this winter work out, he will be fine. After all, Jeter and Mo had nothing to do with his GM capabilities. If the bullpen guys work out, he will be fine. Cashman also had no control over Lee going to the Phillies.

    IMO, Joba has done this to himself. If he has all the talent everyone on the blog thinks he has, then Joba has wasted his opportunities. Girardi and Cashman can’t pitch for him.

  30. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    To put it in a fairer perspective Randy…if you are Cshman and you are looking at a 2010 rotation of CC, Burnett, Pettitte, Javy, and Hughes/Joba–where is his role.

    And looking forward to 2011, a rotation of CC, Burnett, Pettitte, Hughes and either Lee or Joba or Nova or some other prospect (from a 2008 perspective), where would Coke fit in?

    Coke has a lot to prove as a SP before I start anguishing over his loss.

  31. tyanksfan36 January 3rd, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    I think Montero will still be a Yankee by ST. You don’t trade your number one prospect unless you are getting an legit starter and there aren’t any out there.

  32. Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    Coke was valuable but not irreplaceable. Boone Logan killed lefties last year. Coke actually ended up with .270 batting average against vs righties and lefties. Moving to a bigger ball park really helped him out. His flyball rate stayed the same but his HR rate dropped 90%, all while walking more and giving up more hits overall.

  33. Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    “I don’t see Cashman’s job at stake over Joba at all. If his signings this winter work out, he will be fine. ”

    What signings? Jeter and Mo? He won’t be judged on those because their wasn’t an option not to sign them. Feliciano doesn’t matter either way.

    Cash’s job isn’t in jeopardy because he is doing what the owners want, whether or not that furthers the goal of winning as many WS as possible.

  34. Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    In other starter/reliever news, Chapman staying in the bullpen another year. He is going to be a free agent by the time he ever gets a chance to start.

  35. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    tyanksfan36 – I think the Yankees will keep Montero in SWB until Memorial Day as this gets them an additional arbitration free year.

    It will also allow them to evaluate Russell Martin behind the plate and see how Posada adapts to the DH.

    And allow Montero to get his groove on at the plate.

    I think for all those reasons it’s the smart thing to do.

  36. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    “In fairness, the Tigers are taking a chance that Coke will work out as a starter. He may or he may not.”

    doreen-

    cashman develops kennedy, coke, and austin jackson and then he trades them right at the point they could help the yankees for a player who’s good but is already 30 years old and has his problems as a full time player because of his difficulties hitting lefties.

    granderson is not a young player. he’s 30.

    it’s almost like other gms are waiting for cashman to get players mlb ready and then ship them off to them for high priced guys that they don’twant anyway because of the price. this was granderson. you don’t think leyland and dombrowski didn’t know granderson was a limited player.

    i think cashman has to pick a lane and stick in it.

  37. pat January 3rd, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    So does Jorge show up the 14th with the pitchers and catchers or the 20th with the position players?

  38. LGY January 3rd, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    Randy

    Do you know why the Tigers are giving Coke a chance to start?

  39. Hopdevil January 3rd, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    Rich in NJ – fair enough. I absolutely agree that the benefits of his projected batting skills make up for his potential deficiencies behind the plate.

    The question in my mind was whether or not Montero would be better served by starting full-time or part-time. If scouts feel there is no potential benefit for him to keep starting full-time than obviously let him (hopefully) start mashing with the ML club.

  40. Yank1 January 3rd, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    Six weeks from Monday, the Yankees’ pitchers and catchers report to spring training. Will Andy Pettitte be there? The answer, Brian Cashman said Monday, is the same as it was a month ago.

    “He told us before the Cliff Lee thing not to count on him,” Cashman said over the phone. “I’ve covered this ground a thousand times. I’m done talking about the Andy stuff. People keep asking the same questions five different ways, and nothing has changed. Everybody’s assuming that Andy’s retiring. That’s what we believe will happen.”

    And if it does happen, Cashman said he did not necessarily expect to be notified. And, Cashman added, he was not anticipating to hear anytime soon from Pettitte. He never set a deadline for Pettitte and is – and has been – proceeding as if Pettitte has already retired.

    “He might call and say, ‘Hey, I want to play,’ but I don’t expect a call with him telling us, ‘Hey, I’m not playing,’ because he’s kind of already told us don’t count on me playing,” Cashman said.

    http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....more-39529

  41. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    “Coke has a lot to prove as a SP before I start anguishing over his loss.”

    coke and kennedy were depth. cashman developed them and then when they were mlb ready traded them.

    detroit and arizona say thank you very much.

    detroit wouldn’t even trade austin jackson even up for granderson roght now.

    what does that tell you.

    i’m telling you. if cashman trades montero .some other team is going to be thanking cashman very much.

  42. Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    Technically they got a 29 year old Granderson, which is the same as acquiring a 29 year old Crawford. Except Granderson plays CF. He OPS’d over 1 in the playoffs and hit 24 HRs even missing a month.

  43. Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    He traded Coke and then acquired Logan, so who cares about Coke.

  44. Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    “cashman develops kennedy, coke, and austin jackson and then he trades them right at the point they could help the yankees for a player who’s good but is already 30 years old and has his problems as a full time player because of his difficulties hitting lefties.”

    And it has always been so. It’s the Yankee way, for better or worse, and it would be the same no matter who the GM is because the owners want it that way.

    Meanwhile, it’s open to debate what AJack is. Will he ever be be the player he was in April or will his career be more like May-June and Aug-Sept? Will he remain a K machine with no power?

    Coke is a fungible pitcher.

    IPK was a loss and the Yankees handled him poorly, but that doesn’t mean that it was a bad trade.

    The resolution of that question will likely turn on whether Long’s fix of Granderson’s swing is enduring. If it is, he can hit enough to be a corner OF.

  45. tyanksfan36 January 3rd, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    WCYF

    I made a comment on here the other day about bringing up montero in June if his defense and offense are good enough for the ML level, let him start a good chunk of games and if he continues good defense and offense better than martin then they could trade Martin for a pitcher and have Posada and Cervelli backup montero.

  46. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    “Do you know why the Tigers are giving Coke a chance to start?”

    probably because they need a starter.

    why do you think so old wise one who has never set foot on grass ?

  47. Doreen January 3rd, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    Randy l -

    I can’t fault Cashman for looking at Granderson’s HRs and seeing how he could fit at Yankee Stadium.

    As for the rest, for other teams it’s “nice” to go to the WS. For the Yankees, it’s altogether a different circumstance. You trade on your future for the present. Sometimes that doesn’t work out.

    The problem for the Yankees is making a transition and yet keeping the same objectives.

  48. Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 9:06 pm

    If you look at Granderson as an impact player, a guy that can change a game with his abilities, and you look at Austin Jackson and see a guy with flaws that directly relate to struggling at the major league level (contact issues + lack of power / discipline), then you make that trade every time.

  49. ron January 3rd, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    With betances,banuelos a few years away,pettitte possibly retiring & mitre in the rotation,burnett being a huge question mark i just don’t see how montero does not get traded for pitching.
    I just don’t know if it will be before st or at the deadline.

    We need pitching & we need it bad.

    How can we possibly wait til the next offseason for fa pitchers?

    I think cashman trades montero at the trading deadline for a big name pitcher.

  50. NJ Pete January 3rd, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    Doreen – Thanks for the CRV info a few posts back. Good luck with whatever you choose.

  51. Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    “i just don’t see how montero does not get traded for pitching.”

    Who?

    Just because you have a good investment that’s appreciating, it doesn’t’ mean that you have to realize the gain before it matures.

  52. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    “Technically they got a 29 year old Granderson, which is the same as acquiring a 29 year old Crawford. Except Granderson plays CF. He OPS’d over 1 in the playoffs and hit 24 HRs even missing a month.”

    technically granderson is 30 years old.

    was cashman’s plan to get a bunch of 30 year old guys?

    he doesn’t develop joba as a starter. he trades away kennedy. coke emerges as a good cheap lefty in teh pen and he trades him. austin jackson is developed right to the point where montero is and cashman trades him.

    cashman took over 5 years ago and so far he’s come up with hughes.

    whoptiedoo.

    cashman could very likely choke and trade montero.

    like i said, if he does that he’s gotta go.

  53. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    tyanksfan36 January 3rd, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    WCYF – I made a comment on here the other day about bringing up montero in June if his defense and offense are good enough for the ML level, let him start a good chunk of games and if he continues good defense and offense better than martin then they could trade Martin for a pitcher and have Posada and Cervelli backup montero.

    ************

    If Montero comes up mid-season, Martin is healthy I wouldn’t mind keeping him around all year in case Montero hits the wall. I don’t want to see Posada behind the plate again.

  54. Tar January 3rd, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    “cashman developed him and then when he was ready to blossom traded him away

    Or traded him when his value was at it’s highest. Sell high buy low.

    I have absolutely no problem with Cash including Coke in that trade. IPK is debatable, I don’t see it with Coke.

  55. LGY January 3rd, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    “probably because they need a starter.

    why do you think so old wise one who has never set foot on grass ?”

    —————

    Have you taken a second to wonder why they have so few options that they are turning to a LOOGY who hasn’t started a game in 2 years?

    Dombrowski and Co are probably the last people you want to cite for their SP decision acumen given their track record in recent years.

  56. Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    technically granderson is 30 years old.

    cashman took over 5 years ago and so far he’s come up with hughes.

    Yea this year, but they’ve already got 1 year of granderson in which he excelled in the playoffs and the yankees were 2 games away from the World Series. And when they traded for him, he was 28. Then had his age 29 season.

    And he has Joba, and Robertson, and traded Coke for Logan. We have Gardner.

  57. Michelle B. of Yankee Stadium West January 3rd, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    Doreen,

    Dont get the audi, too much money, too much time spent at the dealership getting them fixed. They are nice to look at and nice to drive, when they arent in the shop and the parts are outrageously overpriced… Just my $ .02

  58. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    Technically they got a 29 year old Granderson, which is the same as acquiring a 29 year old Crawford. Except Granderson plays CF. He OPS’d over 1 in the playoffs and hit 24 HRs even missing a month.

    ***********

    That has to be one of the more mind-boggling posts I have ever seen here. Granderson the same as Crawford. Wow.

  59. LGY January 3rd, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    The Tigers were paying $32.5 million for Dontrelle Willis, Nate Robertson, and Jeremy Bonderman last year.

  60. mick January 3rd, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    IPK having a decent year does not translate into success with the NYY.

  61. tyanksfan36 January 3rd, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    West Coast

    Well I don’t want to see Posada behind the plate either because I like him but if they can get pitching out of Martin then I’d rather they trade him and keep Montero. I mean, all this depends on a ton of stuff so I’m content waiting to see what happens.

  62. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    “then you make that trade every time.”

    no jerkface you and cashman make that trade. dombrowski and leyland don’t.

    as i said before, you don’t know enough to know what you don’t know.

  63. mick January 3rd, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    Coke was a dog.

  64. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    tyanksfan36 – Agreed, I don’t think the catching position and DH are something to worry about. The team has other issues.

  65. BX33 January 3rd, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    “cashman could very likely choke and trade montero.”

    He’s already attempted to, 3 times, for….gasp…. players in their mid 30s (Halladay/Lee twice).

  66. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    cashman develops kennedy, coke, and austin jackson and then he trades them right at the point they could help the yankees for a player who’s good but is already 30 years old and has his problems as a full time player because of his difficulties hitting lefties.

    granderson is not a young player. he’s 30.
    +++++++++++++
    You must be writing from the future (since CG doesn’t turn 30 until 3/16/2011). Could you look up and tell me what the winning Mega-millions number was for Jan 4, 2011?

  67. Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    Granderson the same as Crawford. Wow.

    Well technically he is better. Or at least more cost effective. The point is they were the same age when being acquired, I don’t think Granderson’s age can be used against him.

  68. Doreen January 3rd, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    You’re welcome, NJ Pete – and thanks. :)

  69. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    “That has to be one of the more mind-boggling posts I have ever seen here. Granderson the same as Crawford. Wow.”

    not to totally reverse arguments, but grandersons career OPS is .822. crawford’s OPS is like .781. the thing isn CC’s favor is he’s been better the past two years.

    the red sox may have jumped the shark with the money they are paying for crawford’s production.

  70. LGY January 3rd, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    Granderson the same as Crawford. Wow.

    ————

    I bet Granderson has a higher OPS than Crawford next season.

    And he plays CF so that is much more awesome than LF like Crawford.

  71. LGY January 3rd, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    I don’t even like Coke much as a reliever for the Yankees.

    Too many fly balls for Yankee Stadium.

  72. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    Come on now really. Do you think there is a GM in baseball that would give Granderson a $100 million dollar deal?

  73. Hopdevil January 3rd, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    “then you make that trade every time.”

    no jerkface you and cashman make that trade. dombrowski and leyland don’t.

    as i said before, you don’t know enough to know what you don’t know.

    ———————————————

    But Cashman does wear more rings than those guys, has been GM of a team that has won more games, made more playoff appearances, made more money….

    Apparently these other Front Office geniuses can’t translate their superior knowledge into, say, winning organizations.

    Has to count for something…

  74. LGY January 3rd, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    The great year of .851 OPS from Crawford that earned him a gigantic contract is not even higher than Granderson’s best two seasons.

  75. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    Technically they got a 29 year old Granderson, which is the same as acquiring a 29 year old Crawford. Except Granderson plays CF. He OPS’d over 1 in the playoffs and hit 24 HRs even missing a month.

    ***********

    That has to be one of the more mind-boggling posts I have ever seen here. Granderson the same as Crawford. Wow.
    ++++++++++++++
    Really? Why?

    Both will turn 30 in 2011.

    Career OBP–
    Granderson .341
    Crawford .337

    Career Homers
    CG 126
    CC 104

    Career Runs
    CG 511
    CC 765

    Oh…years played
    CG 7
    CC 9

    What exactly is mind-boggling. Aside from CC having a career year and CG only coming around late? I’d rather have CG for the power he brings…and the fact that he plays a premium position…and the fact that his contract is far better.

  76. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    “You must be writing from the future (since CG doesn’t turn 30 until 3/16/2011). Could you look up and tell me what the winning Mega-millions number was for Jan 4, 2011?”

    bojo-

    he’s 30 for 2011.

    if you want to watch him to play at age 29, you’re going to have to go back in time.

    while you’re back there, make a $1000 bet for me for the giants to win the series..

    we’ll split the profits.

  77. Tar January 3rd, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    “Too many fly balls for Yankee Stadium”

    But he was really good at pointing to them. :D

  78. SAS January 3rd, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    Since you all seem to hate Cashman, who would you like as GM?

  79. jacksquat January 3rd, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 9:13 pm
    Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    Technically they got a 29 year old Granderson, which is the same as acquiring a 29 year old Crawford. Except Granderson plays CF. He OPS’d over 1 in the playoffs and hit 24 HRs even missing a month.

    ***********

    That has to be one of the more mind-boggling posts I have ever seen here. Granderson the same as Crawford. Wow.

    I bet Granderson is nearly as valuable as Crawford next year.

    I see your man love for Crawford has not ended even after we endured hearing from you about him daily for months and he has been signed to another team…

  80. Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    Come on now really. Do you think there is a GM in baseball that would give Granderson a $100
    million dollar deal?

    Yea? He is a centerfielder that will hit 20+ HRs, steal 20+ bases, hit a bunch of triples, and has been highly rated in Centerfield. People were worried about his routes due to some highly publicized miscues at the end of 09 down the stretch but it turns out they were mistaken.
    Crawford is a centerfielder that refuses to play the position, and who doesn’t hit for great power.

  81. LGY January 3rd, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    randy,

    Why do you want the Yankees to still have Jackson?

  82. Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    “Since you all seem to hate Cashman, who would you like as GM?”

    All?

  83. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    You guys are great at cherry picking stats that fit your agenda. I could do the same thing, they are different types of players and Crawford is a far better one. I’m not arguing here for no reason. The reality is if Granderson was a free agent he would not attract the same attention, he isn’t one of the top elite outfielders in baseball.

  84. Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    Why do you want the Yankees to still have Jackson?

    Cheap? I guess. Maybe his point transcends austin jackson. Randy probably hates jackson because he strikes out all the time and doesn’t have good power and can’t bunt. But the fact that the yankees spent 5 years developing him only to trade him rankles Randy.

  85. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    “Coke has a lot to prove as a SP before I start anguishing over his loss.”

    coke and kennedy were depth. cashman developed them and then when they were mlb ready traded them.

    detroit and arizona say thank you very much.

    detroit wouldn’t even trade austin jackson even up for granderson roght now.

    what does that tell you.

    i’m telling you. if cashman trades montero .some other team is going to be thanking cashman very much.
    +++++++++++++
    It tells me Cashman is smart enough to trade chips when they are being blocked in advancement and blocking future prospects from advancing.

    It certainly in no way tells me that Cashman is going to give away prospects with high ceilings. He held on to Hughes, Cano, Wang, Joba, etc.

    I have no problem trading chips that wo’t be impact players on team, and obtaining players that can be impact players.

  86. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    “But Cashman does wear more rings than those guys”

    since cashman has been in charge,about five years, he has one ring.

    leyland had two that i know of.

    dombrowski one .

  87. Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    he isn’t one of the top elite outfielders in baseball.

    Funnily enough, neither is crawford.

  88. pat January 3rd, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    “But he was really good at pointing to them.”

    It’s just a finger injury waiting to happen if he doesn;t work up to it. :wink:

  89. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    The jury is still out as to whether the Granderson trade was even a good one. He had a poor year in 2010 except for a month and a half when he hit a bunch of home runs.

    I am not a stat nut like some here but if you think a .247 BA with a .347 OBP and a .792 OPS is an elite ballplayer, your standards are not very high.

    He has potential I will say that. I like him but Carl Crawford? Laughable.

  90. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    “You must be writing from the future (since CG doesn’t turn 30 until 3/16/2011). Could you look up and tell me what the winning Mega-millions number was for Jan 4, 2011?”

    bojo-

    he’s 30 for 2011.
    ++++++++++
    Your point was that they traded that talent in 2009 for a player that was 30….that was the point of my joke. You were a year ahead of time.

  91. LGY January 3rd, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    Since when is contract a good way to judge a player?

    Pretty sure Scott Boras’ “One Dumb GM” theory completely wrecks any use of citing a player’s contract as to how good a ballplayer he is or how much he is worth.

    Unless Vernon Wells, Jayson Werth, Barry Zito, and the list goes on and on are elite players based on their contract???

  92. Vineyard Yankee January 3rd, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    WCYF:

    Does this sound familiar or what:

    Granderson is = to Crawford.
    Joba will be a top of the rotation guy and lead us to the playoffs.
    ARod is moving to RF.
    Aaron Hill traded for Cano.

    Could it be ? ? ? …………Nah…………LMAO !

  93. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    “Why do you want the Yankees to still have Jackson?”

    because thye’d have coke and kennedy too and kenndy and coke would be a little useful right now wouldn;t you say?

    if granderson could get back to the back of his baseball card and have an .822 OPS i’d feel better about him.

    .780 and .790 isn’t inspiring.

  94. Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    “since cashman has been in charge,about five years, he has one ring.”

    I think the more accurate way to look at it is that Cash has won four rings as GM even though he lacked a mL pipeline except for the last few years, and even though horrible players like Jaret Wright and Tony Womack were forced on him.

  95. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    Come on now really. Do you think there is a GM in baseball that would give Granderson a $100 million dollar deal?
    ++++++++++++
    Hmmm-

    CFer with good glove?
    24 homers in limited ABs–projectingh to 30 plus and perhaps 40 homers?
    Probable 20-30 SBs with high percentage success?
    Late season correction in stance that translated to increased success against all pitchers and more power?

    Yeah, I think he would get $100M plus.

  96. LGY January 3rd, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    “He has potential I will say that. I like him but Carl Crawford? Laughable.”

    —————–

    Crawford is not even an elite player for a LF, let alone an elite player in general.

  97. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Carl Crawford not an elite player? He’s a great defensive outfielder who hit .307 with 47 SB and 110 runs scored with 90 RBI’s. Come on.

  98. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    “You were a year ahead of time.”

    i’m ahead of a lot of things :)

  99. Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    “Carl Crawford not an elite player? He’s a great defensive outfielder who hit .307 with 47 SB and 110 runs scored with 90 RBI’s. Come on.”

    His career OPS+ is 107, ie 7% above league average. If that’s elite the word has a new meaning that the dictionary hasn’t yet picked up.

  100. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Right LGY. You are right and all the professionals are wrong. Got it.

  101. mick January 3rd, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    because thye’d have coke and kennedy too and kenndy and coke would be a little useful right now wouldn;t you say?
    ======================================
    how do you know kennedy esp could pitch in NY?
    way too much pressure.

  102. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    “His career OPS+ is 107, ie 7% above league average”.

    This is the kind of infatuation with stats that results in this kind of opinion. Watch the guy play.

  103. Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    “Right LGY. You are right and all the professionals are wrong. Got it.”

    The professionals, well one anyway, paid Lugo $36m.

  104. LGY January 3rd, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    The professionals, well one anyway, paid Lugo $36m.

    ——————-

    And those professionals invested over $100 million in the ‘elite’ DiceK Matsuzaka

  105. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    Randy–

    If you are using Nostradamus as your point of reference to compare GMs to, then I guess Cashman does suck. And most are even worse than him.

  106. Erica in NY January 3rd, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    Sign Johnny Damon!!!!!!! :-)

  107. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    “I think the more accurate way to look at it is that Cash has won four rings as GM”

    i don’t think you want to go down that road rich in nj because that would mean that cashman has been in charge for over 14 years.

    in that case , he’s really done a bad job with that farm system.

    id sick with him winning one under his control and turning around the farm system.

    the other rings were for a job that should not have been called gm.

    they were gofer rings.

  108. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    “You were a year ahead of time.”

    i’m ahead of a lot of things
    +++++++++++++
    So please send me those numbers! I’ll split the winnings with you!

  109. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    Rich and LGY – you cherry picked two outliers. You think that’s fair?

  110. LGY January 3rd, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    Alfonso Soriano, $136,000,000 (2007-14)
    Vernon Wells, $126,000,000 (2008-14)
    Barry Zito, $126,000,000 (2007-13)
    Jayson Werth, $126,000,000 (2011-17)
    Ryan Howard, $125,000,000 (2012-16)
    Mike Hampton, $121,000,000 (2001-08)
    Jason Giambi, $120,000,000 (2002-08)
    Ken Griffey Jr., $116,500,000 (2000-08)
    Kevin Brown, $105,000,000 (1999-2005)
    Carlos Lee, $100,000,000 (2007-12)
    Carlos Zambrano, $91,500,000 (2008-12)

    Baseball professionals are always right!!

  111. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    Let me ask you this question. Assuming they both made an equal amount of money. How many of the thirty major league General Managers do you think would take Granderson instead of Crawford?

  112. Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan

    It’s fair because you asserted, in effect, that merely because some professional made a judgment, that it must necessarily be correct when there are ample facts to demonstrate otherwise.

  113. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    “This is the kind of infatuation with stats that results in this kind of opinion. Watch the guy play.”

    i kind of remember him trying to steal third with two outs and getting thrown out to end the game.

    he’s not someone who gets the most out of his talents.

    when you can run like that, how do you not have a lifetime .800 OPS?

    i don’t think he’s real smart.

  114. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    Answer the question please.

  115. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    “How many of the thirty major league General Managers do you think would take Granderson instead of Crawford?”

    for the contracts attached, i think only one, the red sox would take crawford.

    and theo just might take granderson at 18 million for the next two years.

  116. Tar January 3rd, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    “The professionals, well one anyway, paid Lugo $36m.”

    LOL ouch. Would that be the same “one” who paid Renteria 40m.

    Sign Damon!!!

    Hi E. :D

  117. LGY January 3rd, 2011 at 9:54 pm

    “i don’t think he’s real smart.”

    ————-

    I also don’t think if you watch Crawford and see elite player you are real smart.

    randy set me up for that one. Something doesn’t feel right here…

  118. Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan

    As Crawford’s contract, viewed in the context of his entire career, shows, it depends on the season heading into free agency and if there is a big revenue team with a need. So while Crawford may have been preferred over Granderson after the 2010 season, it’s reasonable to believe that that result wouldn’t have happened after other recent seasons.

  119. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    Hmmm-same salary?

    Crawford just had a career year, and still didn’t match CG’s best 2 years.

    CG has improved his stance and started hitting again like he did in his better years. Long has shown ability to get players like Swisher and others on track again, so I expect his corrections with CG to last.

    CG plays CF but would go whereever his team needs him, yet Crawford refuses to play CF. Selfish player.

    Crawford’s best asset is his speed, which will start to diminish over the next few years…CG has more complete game.

    I think CG would do all right in votes among GMs.

  120. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    “How many of the thirty major league General Managers do you think would take Granderson instead of Crawford?” for the contracts attached, i think only one, the red sox would take crawford.and theo just might take granderson at 18 million for the next two years.

    ***********

    Randy why did you edit my question? I said specifically, “assuming they both made an equal amount of money”.

  121. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 9:58 pm

    Look at all of you evading the question. It’s a simple one. Crawford has played for nine years I believe and Granderson for seven.

    Based on their evaluations as General Managers, how many would take Granderson instead of Crawford.

  122. Erica in NY January 3rd, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    Hi Tar!!!! :-)

  123. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    If you want a specific count of GMs, all the GMs would would rather upgrdae CF over LF would take CG, and since a power bat in CF with a good glove is typically considered of greater value than a corner OFer, I feel it is safe to say that–at the same salary–most GMs would take CG over CC.

  124. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    “randy set me up for that one. Something doesn’t feel right here…”

    lgy-

    no i’m with you here.

    i think only one gm in baseball would give crawford the 140 million he’s getting when they could have 3 years of granderson 31 million ( and can get out of the third year if they wanted to for 2 million).

    switching players CC is getting 40 times what gardner is getting this year.

    gardner might end up with a higher OPS than crawford this year.

    now that would be embarrassing.

  125. Against All Odds January 3rd, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    Chip January 3rd, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    I disagree if for no other reason than that the people making the decisions for the Yankees have boatloads of more information and experience making these judgement calls than we do. Their opinion should be considered before we “experts” go off spouting what we think should happen.

    ———————————

    When it comes to the Yankees they have made mistakes to the point where you have to question their judgment. I’ve heard so many fans say hey they have no info than we do and I used to say the same exact thing. But if with all of information they have they still make incorrect decisions.

  126. Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    “Look at all of you evading the question. It’s a simple one. Crawford has played for nine years I believe and Granderson for seven.”

    I’m not evading it at all. After the 2010 season, Crawford would probably be preferred over Granderson, but does that really tell us that Crawford is a better player, or will be a better player over the next five years? I think the answer is no.

    Granderson has a higher career OPS+ than Crawford (113 v. 107) and plays a more important defensive position.

    Cashman isn’t the only GM to overspend and gamble big bucks after a nonplayoff season, Theo is as well, and the Crawford signing demonstrates that.

  127. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    Typos

    If you want a specific count of GMs, all the GMs that would would rather upgrade CF over LF would take CG, and since a power bat with a good glove in CF is typically considered of greater value than a corner OFer, I feel it is safe to say that–at the same salary–most GMs would take CG over CC.

  128. Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    It’s fair because you asserted, in effect, that merely because some professional made a judgment, that it must necessarily be correct when there are ample facts to demonstrate otherwise.

    All WCYF does is appeal to authority (some of those authorities being sports writers) he can’t back up his own opinions. Don’t waste your time.

  129. 4 NYY January 3rd, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    Crawford is a very fine player and person. Remember when he came out and said that Elijah Dukes and Delmon young were cancers on the team?

    If we had acquired him everyone would love him. IMO But, I too think he wasn’t a priority for Yanks at all.

    Still would like the Yanks to acquire Soria if a deal could be worked out without including Montero or the the killer B’s.

    Soriano too fragile, while Soria ( younger also ) could easily be the future closer.

  130. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    Again no one is answering the question, what shall we deduce from that. Right.

  131. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    All WCYF does is appeal to authority (some of those authorities being sports writers) he can’t back up his own opinions. Don’t waste your time.

    **************

    Really? I just backed it up. If you think at an equal salary based on evaluating them solely on their baseball abilities most GM’s would take Granderson you are just embarrassing yourself.

    It wouldn’t even be close and you know it. You just can’t admit it.

  132. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    “Randy why did you edit my question? I said specifically, “assuming they both made an equal amount of money”.”

    didn’t see it.

    what kind of hypothetical question are you asking anyway? in the real world the contract goes with the player.

    they are paid totally different salaries and one is short term and one is long term.

    the money is key to whether a gm would want them or not.

  133. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    Again no one is answering the question, what shall we deduce from that. Right.
    ++++++++++++++
    I answered the question–three times.

    At the same contract, most GMs would take CG over CC because he brings a power bat and good glove to a premium position whereas CC only is so-so in OBP in a corner spot.

    The number of GMs wanting to upgrade inCF over LF would be the majority IMO>

    What don’t you understand about my answer?

  134. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    But thanks for your opinions.

  135. Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    Since CF is a much more scarce position, I think GMs will take Granderson. Teams which already have a CF will take Crawford.

  136. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    Bojo I said with no regard to money. And let’s say they are starting a team and have all the outfield positions to fill.

  137. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    All WCYF does is appeal to authority (some of those authorities being sports writers) he can’t back up his own opinions. Don’t waste your time.

    **************

    Really? I just backed it up. If you think at an equal salary based on evaluating them solely on their baseball abilities most GM’s would take Granderson you are just embarrassing yourself.

    It wouldn’t even be close and you know it. You just can’t admit it.
    ++++++++++++
    I now understand why you find it mind-boggling.

    You have a very low threshold for having your mind boggled.

  138. Against All Odds January 3rd, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    Chip January 3rd, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    And I’m not sure how you can say that the “competition” between Joba and Hughes was meaningless – Joba was a starter in 2009, Hughes was a reliever – Joba was so wonderful a starter that the Yankees reversed their roles in 2010 after what, 2 spring training starts?

    ———————–

    Not meaningless but there was no way Hughes was going to lose the spot to Joba barring an injury. Hughes needed the innings and they weren’t going to delay that another yr. It was Hughes’ job all along.

  139. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    LOL you guys are dancing. Straight up, who do you take.

  140. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    Bojo I said with no regard to money. And let’s say they are starting a team and have all the outfield positions to fill.
    +++++++++
    And I answered–same salary.

    CF being more valuable, they take CG.

  141. Jerkface January 3rd, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    Ok now we’re building a team with EVERY outfield spot available? Granderson. A lot easier to fill LF and RF than CF

  142. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    “If we had acquired him everyone would love him.”

    wrong.

    i grew up loving mantle.

    i like players like swisher.

    i would have liked carl crawford, not loved carl crawford.

    there are very few players that get above the like stage.

    but i would have hated paying 140 million for someone i just liked.

  143. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    LOL you guys are dancing. Straight up, who do you take.
    +++++++++
    It has already been answered by several that they would take CG over CC. Do you need it translated to another language for your comprehension?

  144. Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    “LOL you guys are dancing. Straight up, who do you take.”

    You really do have your own idiosyncratic meaning for words.

    I answered the question in what I believe is the way it makes sense to answer it.

    But let’s pretend reality matters: You would have to be nuts to give either of them $140m.

  145. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    Too bad we will never find out Bojo I would bet you a very large amount of money you are wrong. But thanks for your opinion.

  146. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 10:17 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    Too bad we will never find out Bojo I would bet you a very large amount of money you are wrong. But thanks for your opinion.
    +++++++++
    You’re welcome.

  147. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    Since most of the posters here also choose CG over CC, could you please explain why you found it so mind-boggling? I’m surprised anyone would not consider it viable based on all the obvious arguments presented above.

  148. Pat M. January 3rd, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    WCYF……I’m a bit bias when it comes to Curtis, but I think he’s going to blow away Yankee fans in 2011…….And for the dough he’s a steal

  149. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    speaking of delmon young.

    he had great year as a 24 year old last year. .826 OPS

    carl crawford only beat that out twice.

    delmon young may be better than Carl crawford this next year.

    wow delmon young makes a lot for a young guy he’s arbritation eligible this year.

    will be a free agent in two years.

    hmmmmm.

  150. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    I’m not influenced by what a handful of posters said. Taking into account what I see, what I read, what I know about the game I have followed religiously for many, many year, I just believe that a great majority of General Managers would take Carl Crawford over Curtis Granderson. It would not be close IMO.

  151. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    Pat M. January 3rd, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    WCYF……I’m a bit bias when it comes to Curtis, but I think he’s going to blow away Yankee fans in 2011…….And for the dough he’s a steal.

    ****************

    No one wants that more than I do. Outstanding if that happens! I hope it does. I don’t think he had a very good year last season, except for a power surge for the month and a half after the swing doctoring with K. Long after the series in Texas in August. The jury is still out as far as I am concerned.

    Am I optimistic? You bet. He’s a great athlete and very likable.

  152. Against All Odds January 3rd, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    # LGY January 3rd, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    Cashman has 2 terrible offseasons in a row.

    Javy Vazquez, Nick Johnson! What is this guy thinking?!

    But Joba? Oh yeah, he knows all.
    ——————————————–

    I don’t last off season was terrible. I think it was fair. Some moves worked while others didn’t.

  153. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 10:27 pm

    Randy–

    Delmon Young, Carl Crawford, Josh Hamilton, Rocco Baldelli, Aubrey Huff, Jonny Gomes, and Elijah Dukes…not a bad alumni group for Rays OFers…

  154. LGY January 3rd, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    AAO

    I was poking fun at another poster.

  155. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 10:30 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    I’m not influenced by what a handful of posters said. Taking into account what I see, what I read, what I know about the game I have followed religiously for many, many year, I just believe that a great majority of General Managers would take Carl Crawford over Curtis Granderson. It would not be close IMO.
    ++++++++++
    Ok–but mind-boggling indicates that you may be one-dimensional in your thinking and do not consider multiple arguments against a hypothesis…that is somewhat flawed and will serve only to alienate others. Just my 2 cents to you.

  156. Against All Odds January 3rd, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    # randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    “Technically they got a 29 year old Granderson, which is the same as acquiring a 29 year old Crawford. Except Granderson plays CF. He OPS’d over 1 in the playoffs and hit 24 HRs even missing a month.”

    technically granderson is 30 years old.

    was cashman’s plan to get a bunch of 30 year old guys?

    he doesn’t develop joba as a starter. he trades away kennedy. coke emerges as a good cheap lefty in teh pen and he trades him. austin jackson is developed right to the point where montero is and cashman trades him.

    cashman took over 5 years ago and so far he’s come up with hughes.

    whoptiedoo.

    cashman could very likely choke and trade montero.

    like i said, if he does that he’s gotta go.
    ———————————————————-

    A few yrs ago I would tell ppl who were critical of Cashman give him time, he’s building up the farm which takes time, he knows what he’s doing, wtc. But yrs later what does he have to show: an inconsistent middle reliever that he won’t start or trade, solid 7th maybe 8th inning reliever, a role playing LF, and phi hughes. Lol I mean 5 yrs and that’s it but yet all we hear is what for the next batch of guys. Cashman does a good job at collecting assets but he doesn’t have a clear idea on how to develop them.

  157. West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    Thanks Bojo.

  158. BoJo January 3rd, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 3rd, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    Thanks Bojo.
    +++++++++
    NP–hope that thought helps.

  159. Against All Odds January 3rd, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    # SAS January 3rd, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    Since you all seem to hate Cashman, who would you like as GM?

    ————————-

    No one hates Cashman at least I hope they don’t but he has made his fair share of mistakes.

  160. YankeesNmore January 3rd, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    “… Whether or not the Yankees have an obvious favorite to be their FIFTH starter”???

    They don’t even know who in the hell is gonna be their SECOND!

  161. YankeesNmore January 3rd, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    QUOTE: “No one hates Cashman… .”
    ———————————————————–
    Speak for yourself. I can’t stand the $#!t head!

  162. clownthrowindown January 3rd, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    Granderson only has two good months but the Cashman apologists say it was a good trade because they do what they always do – project the absolute worst for anyone not on the Yankees and total success for anyone who is a Yankee.

    So Granderson will always play like he did for his two good months BUT…IPK is begrudgingly good but never would have cut it in NY, Coke will fail as a starter and Jackson, despite a solid, successful rookie year, will never get any better.

    Its just inconceivable to the blind faithful that maybe Granderson will continue to struggle, IPK will be a solid pitcher, Coke will cut it as a starter and Jackson will be the stud everyone here thought he would be until he wasn’t a Yankee anymore. Its the same logic they use when measuring up Boston – everyone on Boston is questionable but every Yankee is going to rock.

  163. Against All Odds January 3rd, 2011 at 10:59 pm

    # YankeesNmore January 3rd, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    QUOTE: “No one hates Cashman… .”
    ———————————————————–
    Speak for yourself. I can’t stand the $#!t head!
    ——————————–

    That’s a little harsh. I’m not to high on him right now but hate I’m not there yet.

  164. randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 11:03 pm

    ” Lol I mean 5 yrs and that’s it but yet all we hear is what for the next batch of guys”

    Against All Odds-

    i saw through his act early on because i had inside info being close friends with a long time coach in the system who rose up through the system to the mlb level.

    i have no connections now, but cashman is the same guy he’s always been.

    i don’t hate him. he’s just a classic peter principle guy who rose to his level of mediocrity.

  165. Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2011 at 11:09 pm

    “Its just inconceivable to the blind faithful that maybe Granderson will continue to struggle”

    You know what really takes blind faith? To believe that Crawford is worth anything close to $140m.

  166. Against All Odds January 3rd, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    # randy l. January 3rd, 2011 at 11:03 pm

    ” Lol I mean 5 yrs and that’s it but yet all we hear is what for the next batch of guys”

    Against All Odds-

    i saw through his act early on because i had inside info being close friends with a long time coach in the system who rose up through the system to the mlb level.

    i have no connections now, but cashman is the same guy he’s always been.

    i don’t hate him. he’s just a classic peter principle guy who rose to his level of mediocrity.
    ———————————————————-

    I bought into his plan yrs ago because it seemed like the Yankees were trying to get on the right track but when you look at it the old way of thinking is still used by the organization. Sure players get a chance but the chance is so paper thin that if they don’t perform immediately the leaks come out of the player having an attitude or being lazy or that the Yankees are no longer high on him.

  167. 4 NYY January 4th, 2011 at 12:31 am

    randy i grew up loving mantle.

    —————————————————————
    I did too ! Berra, Howard, Blanchard, Kubek, Skowron, Richardson, Lopez, Maris, Ford, Boyer,
    Terry, Stafford, Sheldon, Arroyo, Daley, Shantz, Bauer, Duren, Turley.

  168. OldYanksFan January 4th, 2011 at 5:31 am

    Why is there so much talk about whether CASHMAN has/has not Won a WS?
    That’s not his job.
    He job is to manage building a team ON PAPER.

    Last year, we had a very good team on paper.
    Injury wise, I think we did OK.
    However, Jeter did NOT to HIS JOB, followed by ARod, Teix, Posada, AJ and Javy.
    We had a number of studs that happened to play like duds.
    (That’s over $110m worth of ‘employees’)
    You can’t blame a GM, or manager, when a number of players don’t do THEIR JOB.

    In MLB, there are 29 GMs….. and Brain Cashman.
    There are 29 teams who would love to succeed by winning their division 3 or 4 times a decade and pulling in a WS.
    Then there is Cashman, who has failed miserably for only having a team in the PS 9 of the last 10 years, and ONLY 1 WS.

    Nobody, not even Theo, has near the expectations put on them that Cashman does.
    Every GM is allowed to build a team and deveop players.
    But Cashman is only allowed to Win.

    I don’t care how smart your kid is… if you expect them to score 100 on every test, then they will be a failure. People can not live up to impossible expectations. Yet every year, if we don’t have the WS in the bag by Jan 1st, Cashman is a failure. And no matter how successful Cashman is, ya know, he will never be any good because he has ‘the checkbook’.

    And unlike the Sox and basically every other team, Cashman (for the sake of history and the fans) must holdson to (and usually overpays) iconic players.

    Did Cashman really want a 4th year for Posada? No.
    Did Cashman really want a 10 years for ARod? Hell no.
    Did Cashman really want $57m+/3 yrs for Jeter, instead of giving him his market value of 2/$18m? Most definitely not.

    But while every other GM gets to walk the line on the ground, Cashman must perpetually walk the High Wire.

    Hell…Cliff Lee turned down the Yankees and went to the Phils, yet many bash Cashman for that too. Now peole expect Cashman to replace Pettitte this winter when the is NO ONE out there.

    Aside from the fact that Cashman is very smart, ya know why the Yankees junped at rehiring him?
    Because a lot of GMs just don’t have the balls for the job.
    The man literally sits in the hottest seat in all of professional sports.
    However, it’s easy to be a GM when sitting on the couch in front of the TV with a beer in hand.

  169. Doreen January 4th, 2011 at 6:13 am

    Good Morning Old Yanks Fan -

    I 100% agree with your post. It needed to be said, exactly like that. :)

    Good morning, morning people.

    Back to the “my husband works in Manhattan, and I need to get up earlier” routine.

    When do people think the Pettitte retirement will become official? I know Cashman doesn’t expect a particular phone call, but at some point, wouldn’t you think an announcement has to be made? Unless he’s going to come back mid-season or something. (I’m still waiting for Bernie to announce his retirement officially, come to think of it. :) )

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