Still building a LoHud bench
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 04, 2011 
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I want to start today with one more call for our upcoming Pinch Hitters series.
I haven’t counted the emails I’ve already received, but there already a lot of terrific suggestions. I appreciate all of you who have already written, and I want to get as many as possible before I put the schedule together.
If you have something to say and haven’t sent your suggestion, feel free to fire away. You can write about something in the Yankees past, present or future — a favorite player, a wasted opportunity, an open letter to Brian Cashman — whatever comes to mind.
My plan is to start contacting people this week, and I’d like to finalize the schedule this weekend. Just email me a brief explanation of your suggested post. The ones that are chosen will hear from me in the next week or so.
MTU,
sorry I had to work there for a minute. Uhm id rather have Phelps as a placeholder because he costs nothing, can be moved up and down, and has the chance to get better and have trade value. Now if they could get Garcia or Millwood to come to Tampa without a guaranteed job then that would be fine I think.
I looked at Pavano’s 2010 splits versus teams and here?s how they break out:
AL East:
(ERA W L IP H R ER HR BB SO AVG)
Boston: 1.50 1 0 06.0 04 1 1 0 1 4 .190
Tampa: 4.38 0 1 12.1 16 7 6 0 4 8 .327
O?s: 1.06 1 1 17.0 11 2 2 1 4 12 .190
Jays: 6.75 0 1 17.1 27 14 13 5 1 7 .355
AL West:
Angels: 1.29 1 0 7.0 6 1 1 0 0 6 .222
Rangers: 3.52 2 1 23.0 23 9 9 1 4 7 .264
M?s: 3.86 0 2 14.0 13 6 6 1 3 7 .255
A?s: 2.84 1 0 6.1 10 2 2 0 1 4 .345
AL Central:
Tigers: 5.49 1 1 19.2 24 13 12 3 3 13 .293
White Sox: 5.33 3 1 27.0 36 16 16 5 3 14 .319
Royals: 4.63 3 1 23.1 26 12 12 2 5 10 .286
Indians: 2.40 1 1 15.0 13 4 4 1 5 9 .241
It appears that teams who saw him more had better success against him. And in the AL East, that?s not a good recipe. But then, considering he rarely pitched while he was a Yankee, teams would be seeing him for the first time. (practically)
Blake-
I do not agree. That will kill the BP. Garcia will be cheap and can be jettisoned as needed.
Phelps is not ready IMO.
I do not see that as the preferred course, or as the wisest of the available options.
JMTC.
MTU,
Fair enough. We just have to see how it plays out. If Pettite comes back (Im still hopeful) then they are ok to start out. If he doesn’t then Im sure Cashman will try to make a move for another starter. I don’t know actual cost on Garcia so we’ll just have to see……I don’t see him coming to NY to compete for a job though.
There is no reasonable basis to believe starters will be cheaper in 2011 than 2010. Teams are unlikely, in my opinion, to trade starters at this point in the year. Cashman will either have to stick with what they have, add a starter they hope will recover from injuries or overcome age issues or make a trade giving up more than they want.
I believe any trade for a no. 3-4 starter will require at least two of the Yankees top ten prospects.
Blake-
Me neither. He’s gonna have to be guaranteed a contract and a spot.
He’ll come relatively cheap though IMO.
Time will tell.
Morning All – Long time no post. Hope everyone had a safe and happy new year!
Kinda funny to come back to the blog and see the conversation from last night was still dominated by Cliff Lee. The day we stop talking about this guy is gonna be like a holiday! I’d MUCH rather continue the 4 year old debate of “Joba the reliever vs. Joba the starter” than talk anymore about a player that NEVER PLAYED A GAME FOR THE YANKEES!!!!
Sorry.. just had to get that outta my system.
Austin-
IMO counselor, Cashman is going to go with a “plea bargain”.
You never know who might be made available mid season……certainly more than is right now and likely at better prices.
Blake-
So I guess you believe the Yankees can hold their own until the ASB with a rotation of AJ and the 2 rooks along with the present BP ?
I’m not so sure of that.
MTU,
wouldn’t be ideal but yes I think they could ….I would prefer that to an overpay now for a marginal upgrade. Now if they can get a real upgrade then that’s a different story. I do think they need to fortify the pen though if they go that route (Soriano).
Shame
welcome back!
actually Cliff has barely been discussed…there was a (too) many days discussion regarding the Twins pitching development , more talk about Joba’s role and endless Cashman bashing.
MTU -
Every player is entitled to a bad season, and last year was AJ’s.
I realize SP gets more headlines when they have a very bad year, which is different than a position player .
I have a gut feeling we’ll get something like 15-10 out of AJ this year, which would be great.
Blake -
I’m with MTU on this one.
I say ride the first half with a Garcia/Francis type and see a) if they can give you anything and b) let’s make sure last year wasn’t a flash in the pan for Phelps
Blake-
Maybe if they fortify the pen. Maybe.
Guys like Garcia and Millwood will eat innings. Rookies tend to not be able to.
2 rookies is courting disaster IMO.
And you don’t know if Rothschild can fix AJ either (I hope he can).
Makes for exciting 2nd halves having to come back from deficits doesn’t it ?
Chip-
If you’re with me I know I’m in trouble.
Al-
I sincerely hope AJ returns to form. Without question.
Chip -
Have any thoughts about Zambrano becoming a Yankee?
Keep in mind, after he returned last season, he was the best SP in MLB, and his PC is now with the Yankees.
My feeling is, if the Yankees did that deal, it would be because Rothchild said it would work.
Chip,
Im not opposed to one of those guys if its a no risk situation…..I just like the idea of going with guys that have a chance to get better. Phelps has been good at every level….his minor league numbers are nice. I do think that if Pettite retires then they should do what it takes to sign Soriano…..I think he could help them on a lot of levels by keeping Mo healthy and lenghtening the bullpen.
MTU -
It’s scary when anyone agrees with you, what’s this world coming to.
Al-
Just for arguments sake.
How much of Z’s contract would you expect the Cubbies to eat ?
Also, what prospects would we have to give up ?
I am trying to remember any good pitchers being traded from January to June but can’t recall any. Is their any precedent to believe such a pitcher would possibly be available before the trade deadline?
I am concerned the trade deadline is too late with at least 60% of the season past. Even then, a trade would have to give up significant prospects. As we all knowfrom past years, ly most of the contenders are also typically looking for pitching. I.E., it won’t be cheap then either.
I also don’t think a legitimate no. 3 starter is far more than a marginal upgrade over Mitre, Phelps and even Nova. Poor starting pitching ruins bullpens and seasons.
Al-
If you wait long enough anything is possible.
I would prefer Garcia to Millwood since a year further removed from injury he might be on an uptick and Millwood always seems to be throwing patting practice. Francis if healthy might be worth a trial run, but these should be No. 5 discussions not No. 4.
If Andy retires I think they need to put some prime prospects on the block and see who the best pitcher they can attract is. If he’s not good enough, don’t make the deal. Would love to know the Indians’ bottom line on Carmona.
I agree on Soriano, only because he cost $$$, and not prospects.
MTU -
I think the Cubs would take back about $12M of the total contract, and the players going to the Cubs would be lower level prospects. The Cubs are looking hard at dumping salary.
If the Yankees put prime prospects on the line now…..how will they feel if Felix Hernandez becomes available and they don’t have the chips to trade for him because they used them for someone else this winter……its possible.
Zambrano: if the Cubs would eat a chunk of his salary then he could be a fit because he likely wont cost a lot in players and he still has some upside of being good. It would have to be a salary dump type deal though before Id go there.
Correction– I also DO think a no. 3 type starter is far more than a marginal upgrade.
upstate kate – thanks! I just saw the Cliff Lee talk from yesterday and had a moment lol. I also think the Cashman bashing is required here. I assumed we were trying to fill some sort of quota, though I could have been misled…
Blake,
I really don’t think you can tank this season in some vain hope Hernandez will somehow become available. Every single sign and every single comment says he will not be. They hoped and hoped for Lee and lost out. Now, you want them to do the same for Hernandez with no reasonable expectation.
The heck with Garcia, Millwood, Soriano, etc…..
I want to know the latest in Doreen’s car saga…..
The White Sox have Peavy, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Jackson, and possibly Chris Sale for the rotation. If they unload a $$$ starter they might very well try to sign Soriano.
Joe,
Somehow I liked the Doreen car talk more than the Twins pitching talk. More interesting and about as relevant.
Joe -
All I know is I heard Doreen singing – I’m dreaming of a white Audi.
blake-
I don’t think we have to spend prime prospects now to get someone.
And if we do then the return would have to be quality.
In either case, I do not think burning a few of our excess prospects would affect our ability to act at the TD if someone extraordinary became available.
I don’t see the 2 actions are contingent upon each other.
Again. Just my 2 pennies worth.
Al-
That’s about half of Z’s contract.
At that price he might be worth a shot considering our situation.
I do worry about Mt. Vesuvius erupting in the middle of Yankee stadium though.
I guess if Mr. R feels he can handle him and convinces Cash ?
Muppets with People Eyes.
http://muppetswithpeopleeyes.tumblr.com/archive
I think you’d have a better chance of getting Josh Johnson than King Felix.
blake,
there is already uncertainty surrounding prospects. waiting for a player to become available compounds the uncertainty
Big Al:
On Zambrano I’m torn.
Let’s assume for the sake of argument that he is available and willing to waive his NTC to come to the Yankees.
I do worry that he’s a headcase – but if Larry Rothschild gives Cashman the thumbs up I wouldn’t be opposed to it depending on what package the Yankees were sending back to Chicago.
Al-
I asked her yesterday. She said she likes silver.
Austin,
No, I just don’t think you offer your top guys unless a true upgrade is available and right now it doesn’t appear there is. All im saying is that they shouldn’t force the issue if nothing is there…..they should wait until someting is there then act.
blake-
The Cubs have a number of salaries they probably would like to dump. I’d rather the Yankees trade for Ryan Dempster and take on the last year of Kosuke Fukudome’s salary. That’s 13.5M each per player. Zambrano’s velocity apparently dropped last year.
MTU -
OK, it must have been Silver Bells I heard, I’m easily confused at my age.
Blake,
I don’t suggest Montero or even Banuelos for a no. 3 pitcher. But, I do think Betances, Phelps, Warren, Brackman and the like must be strongly considered. Betances has the most upside of this group, but he has had only one partially healthy year so he is very far from a sure major league pitcher.
I read the White Sox want tosee if Peavy is helathy before considering moving any of their pitchers. I do think they need to get Sale in the rotation. He has a ton of ability. Maybe this is a possible spring training hope.
MTU,
yes, if they can do something by dealing excess then that’s different and they should.
AL,
I think they both will be available at some point. Hernandez’s salary jumps to nearly 20 million in 2012. If they are out of contention in June and its clear they are in need of a full.rebuild then it would be wise for them to try and get top dollar for Felix.
Just to clarify….Im not saying you put everything on hold in the hopes that one of these guys become available. Im just saying that if you make a deal then make sure it makes sense and that the price is fair…..if nothing is there then wait until there is.
Al-
Think so ?
And not bats in your belfry instead ?
You are confused.
Trader,
I like Dempster as well. Zambrano threw a lot more sinkers / 2 seamers when he came back I believe so that could have contributed to the velocity decrease at least somewhat.
blake -
I agree. My thinking was because the MLB is giving the Marlins a hard time, along with city officials about the new stadium being built, when the team said it needed $$$, but, the league found that not to be the case, the papers in Miami were talking about the Marlins getting rid of some of their top talant.
No interest at all in Fukudome. What does he do well?
I can’t see the cubs moving Dempster. Zambrano is intriguing because he was so good late last year and with Rothschild on board you have the ultimate scouting report. I’ve love Big-Z because he’s a competitive SOB and you can’t have too many of those.
Blake,
I certainly agree that only a deal that makes sense shold be done. I only suggest our prospects don’t hold quite the value some hope. For example, a pretty good AA pitcher doesn’t get you a pretty good MLB pitcher unless their are significant money issues.
Too many, in my opinion, let their prospect hopes overwhelm reality.
Back in a bit, got to check out the attic.
AL,
yea the Marlins may try to hang on to Johnson until they get in their new stadium but unless he’s willing to take a big discount on another extension then he will hit he market at some point…..also Hamels, Cain, Billinglsey, Danks etc currently do not have long terms deals and could hit free agency relatively soon.
Tom in N.J. January 4th, 2011 at 9:51 am
Muppets with People Eyes.
http://muppetswithpeopleeyes.tumblr.com/archive
*****************************
That’s really weird, but kind of cool. LOL
Thanks for the link Tom!
Cubs get: Brett Gardner, Ivan Nova, Kevin Russo/Ramiro Pena
Yankees get: Carlos Zambrano, Sean Marshall, Marlon Byrd
BIG AL-
http://www.edmunds.com/car-com.....Id=2834368
Based on the MSRP, comparing the Audi Q5, Volkswagen Tiguan and the Acura RDX, my bet is that Doreen will go with the AWD Tiguan, although I do believe the Audi dealerships are getting and offering rebates.
Scratch that – not nearly enough going back to Chicago in that proposal.
More along the lines of:
Cubs get: Gardner, Nova, Warren, Adams
Yankees get: Zambrano, Marshall, Byrd
(though if the Yankees were willing to take back Sori I think the Cubs would do it for a lot less.)
Chip,
I wouldn’t do that deal because Byrd isn’t a long term solution in the outfield and you’re not getting enough back to warrant opening up another hole to be filled in the future.
Cubs get: Brett Gardner, Ivan Nova, Kevin Russo/Ramiro Pena
Yankees get: Carlos Zambrano, Sean Marshall, Marlon Byrd
—————————————————————————-
I don’t think the Cubs do that deal even if the Yankees take on all of Z’s salary. However It would give them Byrd a righty who hit lefties very well at a .357 clip and Marshall, a lefty who could be added to the rotation.
Ryota Igarashi
Designated for assignment by Mets…would be a decent BP pick up if the Yankees can get him. Throws upper 90s with a forkball and splitter.
I saw this guy pitch before he had a groin injury last spring, and he was lights out. After he came back, he struggled a bit with control, but he has a decent record in Japan, and Keith H loved him (decent talent evaluator).
Cubs get: Gardner, Nova, Warren, Adams
Yankees get: Zambrano, Marshall, Byrd
(though if the Yankees were willing to take back Sori I think the Cubs would do it for a lot less.)
_____
I like that the Yanks would address almost all their needs in one fell swoop, but I can’t see CHI’s incentive behind doing this deal. But yes, if Soriano was included, you could pretty much have everyone else for free
Bruce Chen is still the answer.
Nobody has come up with the question yet…
If the Yankees were willling to take on either the contracts of Travis Hafner or Grady Sizemore, I wonder if they would be able to acquire Fausto Carmona from the Indians for a package that would be less than if they just attempted to trade for Carmona only – since they would be giving the Indians salary relief.
Any way you slice it, with Pettitte seemingly ready announce his retirement, the Yankees need to add a pitcher to the rotation … and not just someone who is “filler”.
07:$9M, 08:$13M, 09:$16M, 10-14:$18M annually
full no-trade clause
Chip- I’ll pretend that I didn’t hear you say Sori as in Alfonso Soriano, with the above remaining contract.
Truth be told, I would rather get Bruce Chen than Francis, Millwood, or any of th eother FAs out there. He had a great comeback year last season when forced into starting rotation, should be cheap, and has his moments. I think he could win 10 games with the Yankees, and eat innings.
I disagree with earlier commetn that Yankees need to acquire more than a filler if Pettite retires…they just need to get to July 31 intact.
Same old stuff different day.
Hafner is owed 13M each of the next two years. If Sizemore, in the last year of his 7.5M contract, and if healthy, were included I would say go for it.
The Indians are not going to give Sizemore away…there will be teams willing to give back good prospects for him in mid-season. Same with Hafner.
And if Sizemore’s injuries are so bad that the Indians don’t believe he will ever be valuable, then why would the Yankees want him anyway?
Yankee Trader January 4th, 2011 at 10:19 am
07:$9M, 08:$13M, 09:$16M, 10-14:$18M annually
full no-trade clause
Chip- I’ll pretend that I didn’t hear you say Sori as in Alfonso Soriano, with the above remaining contract.
————-
I said it sarcastically
According to Nick Cafardo the Indians would actually love to move Sizemore.
I would – in a flash offer them:
Gardner, Romulo Sanchez, Brandon Laird and a low level prospect with a high ceiling
for
Sizemore and Chris Perez
I would love to sweeten the deal by including Andrew Brackman and asking them to send back Justin Masterson – but I don’t see that happening.
Chip–
I saw the article as well, and I believe it said they will showcase him so they can trade during the season for more than he is worth now.
Why would the Yankees give up so much without knowing for sure if he is healthy and able to get back to previous playing level?
And they aren’t packaging Sizemore with Perez–a good reliever under control at a good price–for basically cr*p (Sanchez and Laird). Get real.
# blake January 4th, 2011 at 9:13 am
I don’t know actual cost on Garcia so we’ll just have to see……I don’t see him coming to NY to compete for a job though.
—————————-
As it stands right now, he (Garcia) would be competing for one of two spots with Nova and Mitre/Phelps/Noesi…………….if Freddy Garcia doesnt believe he can be in the top two of that crew then we couldnt possibly want him anyway. Also, if he doesnt believe he can crack the Yankee rotation, what rotation does he think he can crack in major league baseball?
BoJo January 4th, 2011 at 10:32 am
Chip–
I saw the article as well, and I believe it said they will showcase him so they can trade during the season for more than he is worth now.
Why would the Yankees give up so much without knowing for sure if he is healthy and able to get back to previous playing level?
————–
I don’t really view it as giving up too much – again it comes down to your opinion on Brett Gardner really.
Don’t want any part of Hafner but would glad take a risk on Sizemore at the right price.
“And if Sizemore’s injuries are so bad that the Indians don’t believe he will ever be valuable, then why would the Yankees want him anyway?”
Because the primary purpose for making the trade would be to get Fausto Carmona (a veteran, proven starter) without having to pay thru the nose in terms of prospects. Taking back another player’s bad contract might be one of the best ways the Yankees could quickly improve their starting rotation.
blake January 4th, 2011 at 10:36 am
Don’t want any part of Hafner but would glad take a risk on Sizemore at the right price.
—————-
Problem is what do you do with Hafner once you get him? That’s a lot of money to stick on the bench in either him or Posada.
Someone mentioned Bruce Chen…again, for a back of the rotation option he’s not an awful choice – much like his teammate Kyle Davies.
But rather than trade for a guy and give up even a non-prospect to get him, I would rather give up just a few bucks and sign Freddy Garcia who is actually better than Chen.
Chip,
That’s why I don’t want any part of him
Chip -
I think you’d be giving too much to the Cubs.
Think about Zambrano and Soiano, 2 players they’d love to dump salary, have the Cubs take back part of each players salary, for some minor pieces, and we have a SP and our 4th OF.
Big Al
I was being sarcastic when I suggested the Yankees take back Soriano’s contract – that thing is massive.
That said, if the Yankees were willing to take it back I’m pretty sure they could get Zambrano for a bag of balls.
Does anyone really think we’re going to have the same 5 man rotation all season? I just don’t see it. That’s why I tend to agree with blake that the Yanks may decide they can tough it out with a patchwork rotation until the trade deadline.
Chip January 4th, 2011 at 10:34 am
BoJo January 4th, 2011 at 10:32 am
Chip–
I saw the article as well, and I believe it said they will showcase him so they can trade during the season for more than he is worth now.
Why would the Yankees give up so much without knowing for sure if he is healthy and able to get back to previous playing level?
————–
I don’t really view it as giving up too much – again it comes down to your opinion on Brett Gardner really.
++++++++++++++
Well, you are right about it not being too much (aside from Gardner). The other players are almost worthless, and certainly the Indians can do better if Sizemore shows he is healthy.
The only way this could happen is if the Yankees were willing to take a big gamble on Sizemore being healthy and returning to his former playing level. They might get Sizemore only (no Perez) for that package.
But why would they risk that if Gardner has shown himself to be a 4 plus WAR, and solidified a great OF defense?
IMO, it is too big a risk that they would not take without knowing if he is healthy…and at that point, the trade becomes unfair from Indians POV.
On another note –
I wonder if the Yankees and Cano will use the deal CarGo is getting from the Rox as a benchmark for a new deal for him?
BoJo -
Grady and Gardy are about the same age; but Sizemore is still easily the more talented of the two. He doesn’t have the same speed but he’s got more of an all around game than Brett does. Both come with injury concerns.
At this point it is just a matter of personal opinion, but I would rather have Sizemore going forward than Gardner.
The one player I’d like to see Cashman target, is Choo with the Indians.
Shame Spencer January 4th, 2011 at 10:42 am
Does anyone really think we’re going to have the same 5 man rotation all season? I just don’t see it. That’s why I tend to agree with blake that the Yanks may decide they can tough it out with a patchwork rotation until the trade deadline.
************
Does any team no matter how good/bad the rotation consistantly have the same 5 guys all season?? Someone inevitably always gets hurt. A team where all 5 guys make their 30+ starts is very, very rare
Big Al -
I don’t think you’ll get any argument on that – but the Indians have no reason to move their best player at this stage. He’s still 3 years away from Free Agency.
On the other hand – you can check back on him in 2 years when Nick Swisher’s contract is up.
I think Doreen is goin’ with a silver Tiguan.
Chip,
I hope ….if Cano would sign that CarGo deal I would do it this very second. I think it’ll take a lot more than that though.
I would still like to see the Yankees get Michael Morse from the Nationals. He would be a very nice fit on the bench.
Erica-
And you have just made the perfect argument for why you must have pitching depth which includes more than just Minor league pitchers.
Good to see you around young lady.
At this point it is just a matter of personal opinion, but I would rather have Sizemore going forward than Gardner.
____
Sure there’s risk with Sizemore, but if he’s even remotely healthy he’s already an upgrade over Gardner, who has played one full season in which he tailed off to the end. I certainly think Garner can improve, but his skill set basically restricts him to being half the player Sizemore can be. I’d have no problem taking on his risk
Big Al–
I agree that Choo is a nice player, but Chip is right–the Indians aren’t looking to do the Yankees a favor.
Chip–
Again, Grady vs Gardy comes down to this–do the Yankees want to take a big risk on Grady’s recovery without seeing him play 40 games? I don’t think so….they don’t NEED to take that risk. If they acquire him prior to seeing him play and he is still not ready to play, they are left with a huge hole in LF, and no back up CFer.
I don’t see this happening at all IMO.
blake -
If Cano took less than Crawford got, he’d be crazy. Cano is an elite player, and THE offense on this team right now.
The Yankees need to build their future around Cano, so they need him, more than he needs the Yankees.
If Jeter is worth $18M to the Yankees, Cano is worth a minimum of $20M.
I don’t have a problem with our outfield. Of all the issues we have that is not one of them. I think we need to find some good bench players. As the team stands on starting position players I think we are set. I don’t want to get rid of gardner unless there is someone else as fast as he is. I think Granderson will have a more productive season as well as Swisher. We need pitching and utility players not to trade away our position players.
If they acquire him prior to seeing him play and he is still not ready to play, they are left with a huge hole in LF, and no back up CFer.
____
Yea. BUT if that’s the main concern, you could take a chance on Sizemore and scoop up Posednik
MTU-
Thank you Sir!!!
I was on vacation from work the last two weeks of the year. When I am not required to physically sit at a computer all day, I found I was checking comments a lot less.
TY36-
I agree with you.
Our OF is way less of a concern than our rotation. Way less.
Erica – That was kinda my point. Why should we go out and pay for subpar pitching options when, IMO, our young guys have just as much of a chance to do well/do poorly?
I understand our issue is depth.. reliable depth, anyway. But at this point the Yanks lack of moves seems suspect to me.
I felt like they were going to do one of two things: buy every junk heap arm available and hope one sticks or trust that the kids (as 2/5ths of the rotation) can get you through half a season respectably. To me, it just seems like they’re willing to take the second approach. It could all change of course, but we’re closing in on a month before pitchers and catchers are to report (!!!!!).
Erica-
You’re quite welcome.
Your style and sense of humor are always appreciated.
Cano – 7/140, anything less, his agent is asleep at the wheel.
If I were his agent, that would be a starting point, looking to go up from there.
The Yankees aren’t going to use anyone’s contract to renegotiate with Cano. They will play out the contract and negotiate at that time.
This is how they do things, and if they didn’t change for Mo, DJ, or any of their other players, they won’t start now.
AL,
The Yankees should seriously consider negociating a new deal with Cano now if they can. He is still under control for awhile longer but if he gets to free agency they may have to pay an absolute fortune to retain him.
“I wonder if the Yankees and Cano will use the deal CarGo is getting from the Rox as a benchmark for a new deal for him?”
I’m sure the Yankees would do it 10 times over. Cano? Not so much. Cano’s next deal will be either as a free agent or on the cusp of free agency. If he maintains his present pace, he’s a $20M per season player. Fortunately for the Yankees they can merely pickup options in 2012 ($14M) and 2013 ($15M) before having to negotiate a new deal with him.
Closer to the truth to say that Cano’s present deal (6 years/$60M with the options included) is the benchmark for what Gonzalez has agreed to. Both deals buyout all three arb years and some free agency.
Our OF is way less of a concern than our rotation. Way less.
_____
Understood. I think the original question was along the lines of trading for Carmona with picking up another player’s salary (Sizemore/Hafner). I do have a lot of confidence in this outfield tho – the best part being it’s cost and short contracts. Those guys provide a ton of value
Shame Spencer-
I know this is the unpopular opinion, but I still believe one of two scenarios are very likely to occur this offseason:
a) The Yankees trade Montero OR
b) The Yankees sign Pavano
(And of course the Yankees sign Johnny Damon… hehehe
)
heyman_sux January 4th, 2011 at 10:54 am
If they acquire him prior to seeing him play and he is still not ready to play, they are left with a huge hole in LF, and no back up CFer.
____
Yea. BUT if that’s the main concern, you could take a chance on Sizemore and scoop up Posednik
+++++++++++
Really?
You’d pick up a 2 year contract at $7.5M per, and then add another $2M for Posednick, to POSSIBLY get an upgrade over a 4 WAR Gold Glove level LFer who may still have some upside and is under control at a cheap rate for another 2 years or so? And you would do that without seeing if the player was healthy first?
Really?
Bojo,
That’s a stance that can cost you a lot of money in some cases.
Cano should get an offer of 1 Mil more than Crawford as a starting place. 7/143.
If AP does not return I think the Yankees need to bust a move rather than going with a rotation that is 3/5′s suspect.
And a BP that is not Goliath.
Too much risk.
Are Nova, Phelps replacement level at #’s 4 and 5 ? I doubt it.
And either way, they are not going to eat enough innings as youngsters.
And if someone goes down you’re looking at Mitre, Mitchell, or Noesi.
That’s not a good way to run an airline IMO.
You?d pick up a 2 year contract at $7.5M per, and then add another $2M for Posednick, to POSSIBLY get an upgrade over a 4 WAR Gold Glove level LFer who may still have some upside and is under control at a cheap rate for another 2 years or so? And you would do that without seeing if the player was healthy first?
Really?
______
Believe it. Gardner’s upside is miniscule compared to Sizemore – who is a legit five-tool MVP caliber player. Obviously theres risk b/c of his health. Still worth a shot.
The money is chump change. And it ain’t yours
lake January 4th, 2011 at 11:00 am
Bojo,
That’s a stance that can cost you a lot of money in some cases.
+++++++++++++
That’s a stance that the team ownership has chosen to set as their standard. It also allows them to manage against the risk of player injury or decline. And certainly in Cano’s case, they are getting 3 years of bargain pricing.
In 3 years, when they have to renegotiate, Cano will be 30-31(?), and on the start of the downside of his career, so the team may find they don’t have to pay him as much as they would when he is entering his prime.
“Cano should get an offer of 1 Mil more than Crawford as a starting place. 7/143″
Only thing that may stop that from being the case is that Cano will be a couple years older than Crawford when it’s time for his bite at the free agent apple.
Erica in NY
I kinda see the Yankees signing Pavano, I mean, the signed Vazquez again. Maybe 2nd times the charm. I’d like to see them sign Damon too. I liked him.
heyman_sux January 4th, 2011 at 11:04 am
Believe it. Gardner’s upside is miniscule compared to Sizemore – who is a legit five-tool MVP caliber player. Obviously theres risk b/c of his health. Still worth a shot.
The money is chump change. And it ain’t yours
+++++++++++
Maybe it would have been worth a shot in the days prior to having a budget, but I think those days are past. Cashman is showing he is more financially conservative, and again..there is NO NEED to take the risk. They don’t need an ALL-STAR at every position, nor is offense where they need to invest their money or prospects.
I don’t see this deal happening at all.
Erica – I honestly don’t have an opinion worth sharing one way or another on Pavano/Damon. I could see how they both have value/liabilities. But I very much hope Montero isn’t going anywhere. At this point, I’m just not sure who is out there thats available and worth moving him for.
Once we lost the Leestakes, I really thought our approach would be to buy up arms like crazy. Arms that would only cost money and a roll of the dice, just to see how things panned out. I’m of the general belief that you simply cannot have enough pitching depth.. but again, the way the Yanks have operated until this point lead me to believe they aren’t going to do that. They could still take the route, of course.. maybe they’re just waiting for prices to fall?.. but I’m starting to think Nova might be more than just penciled in..
Perhaps. Personally i think the Yankees need to chane their stance on extensions, because they are going to find these situations more and more….. Lock Cano NOW. Don’t wait until other teams can get into it.
blake -
Cano is an FA after this season. If he puts up big numbers again this year, he’ll need to be paid north of Crawford numbers.
I know in the past the Yankees did not like to negotiate early, but, in this case it would be wise to change and get him at a lower cost going forward.
If Robbie hits the open market, there will be several teams willing to pay him what he’s worth, which could be $22 – $25M/
Bojo,
It is, and if they are willing accept the risk of possibly having to pay 150+ million dollars to keep him when his deal is up then that’s fine. One of the benefits of their revenue streams…..
The chances of The Idle ever returning to the Yankees are in negative number territory.
Thankfully. It ain’t happening.
The guy is a living plague.
Also, in 3 years, teams may begin to see the folly of the long-term deals given to Holliday, Crawford, and Werth, and the market may once again re-adjust.
Just throwing this one out there:
Atlanta gets: Gardner and Brackman
Yankees get: Jurrjens and McLouth
Would you be willing to take the hit in LF to get Jurrjens? I probably would. If nothing else the Yankees can ink Damon for a season to play LF and use McLouth (or Golson) as a defensive replacement late in games.
And Sizemore hasn’t played a full season since 2008 because of his onslaught of injuries the last two seasons.
Here’s a fact.
Right now, Gardner is more of a sure thing than Sizemore – at least until Sizemore can prove he can play an entire season and produce numbers close to the Sizemore of old.
Cashman isn’t going to gamble like that with their cheap starting LF. All this trading Gardner crap is just that – crap.
The Yanks passed on Crawford and Werth because of Gardner and now they are going to move him for a guy who’s career has been derailed by injuries the last two seasons?
Yeah, that ain’t gonna happen.
Whatever happens with Robbie he is stayin’ a Yankee.
For me, that’s all I care about.
Superstar.
AL,
They have a couple of affordable club options on him after this year so he’s locked up through 2013 but they could still save some cash by negociating with him now…..though by waiting they are ruling out he risk of injury etc….
ac1 and blake–
One can make a very good argument that the team SHOULD change its policy on contract extensions…but until that happens, a renegotiation with Cano isn’t happening.
And in this case, I am not sure it is worth it either. Cano could get hurt (middle infielders do get taken out in DPs a lot), he may start to show decline, and he will be entering the downside of career at a time that long-term deals with the players I mentioned earlier will start to look pretty ugly.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Cashman take a hard line stance on Cano in 3 years given any of the above happening.
Maybe it would have been worth a shot in the days prior to having a budget, but I think those days are past. Cashman is showing he is more financially conservative, and again..there is NO NEED to take the risk. They don?t need an ALL-STAR at every position, nor is offense where they need to invest their money or prospects.
I don?t see this deal happening at all.
___________________
Yea, I’m not delusional, I don’t see it happening either (bc Sizemore IS that good and the Indians won’t just give him up). And I completely agree about not needing an All-Star all over, but if you had the chance to get him for Gardner and a few prospects as a throw in…why not? Just to say you DONT have all-stars at every position?
I still don’t buy the budget thing yet either. If there was something out there worth spending money on, I gotta think the Yanks would still spend. All this talk of a budget, but they DID offer Cliff Lee $150M
I’m out, everyone enjoy their day!
Chip,
I love Jair but Mclouth is awful. I think the Braves would certainly consider that deal….don’t know the Yankees.
The Yanks passed on Crawford and Werth because of Gardner and now they are going to move him for a guy who?s career has been derailed by injuries the last two seasons?
_____
Big difference between 20M for Crawford and 7.5 for Sizemore. And at the time they were prepared to pay Lee. I don’t think they want to make ’08 type offseason spending a regular habit…
Chip January 4th, 2011 at 11:11 am
Just throwing this one out there:
Atlanta gets: Gardner and Brackman
Yankees get: Jurrjens and McLouth
Would you be willing to take the hit in LF to get Jurrjens? I probably would. If nothing else the Yankees can ink Damon for a season to play LF and use McLouth (or Golson) as a defensive replacement late in games.
++++++++++++
No…no…no…
McLouth sucks, and why hurt one position (LF) when you have prospects coming up that will fill the hole in SP. Until then, the team just needs to stay close…
Also and more importantly, Cashman has never valued sinkerballers that highly. he would prefer a power arm for rotation…which is what his next wave of prospects offer.
blake -
Sorry, I missed the 2 option years, I thought he was an FA after this season. So you’re correct, they’ll play out his contract, and see where they are at that point.
Bojo,
That’s fair. Typically the stance they have is good for a big market teams because it limits their risk and they can afford to pay the player if thy still want them at them at the end of their deal…..as they infuse more youth into the team though it would make sense to soften their stance in certain cases though IMO.
Giuseppe Franco January 4th, 2011 at 11:11 am
Cashman isn’t going to gamble like that with their cheap starting LF. All this trading Gardner crap is just that – crap.
———————
Here’s why Gardner keeps getting brought up in trade suggestions (at least in from my POV).
It’s not that anyone wants to run him out of town – so get your undies out of a wad.
What do teams want? Young, inexpensive players who have shown they can play at a high level in the major leagues. Who on the Yankees, other than Cano and Gardner fit this bill?
If we agree that the Yankees aren’t moving Cano, then the only chip they have to work with for a major trade is Brett Gardner.
Do I want to move him? Not really. But if I can move him in part of a deal that fixes something more critical or harder to fill than LF I would. And if I can move him in part of a deal that not only fixes another issue but also nets me a player who yes, has questionmarks, but can be better than Gardner then heck yes I do the deal.
The Yankees weren’t interested in Werth or Crawford because when those players went off the board they still believed they were getting Cliff Lee and that Andy would return. There was no need to consider dealing Gardner at that point.
Had Lee signed first – the Yankees would have jumped all over Werth or Crawford (maybe not at those prices) so that they could do just what people are now suggesting – deal Gardner to help fill other needs.
Just got back from the eye doctor’s office where I picked up my new eyeglasses, which I really love – first time in a long time I’ve loved a pair of eyeglasses.
I was thinking about Zambrano – if he turned a corner last season, why would the Cubs get rid of him? They might as well keep him if they’re going to have to “eat” some salary. Also, it might take more in prospects (at least from the Yankees) than we’d expect.
****
Car Saga: First, color: I’m leaning toward what is called Quartz Gray Metallic in Audi or Alpine Gray Metallic in VW, but if there was a silver car with everything I wanted in it available now, I would take it. Second, I was doing some further research on the Q5, specifically “complaints” and there’s a few biggies having to do with coolant leaking, water pump and transmission. Those were on the 2009 and 2010 models, but still, it gives me pause, considering the cost. Still the drive on the Q5 was fantastic (I am now unhappy with the drive in my MDX, which prior to yesterday I was happy with.) If I had to buy one of the two right this second, it would be the Tiguan because of the cost. The Tiguan and Q5 share a lot of the cool features as well as a lot of the safety features. The drive is different though.
Audi wasn’t offering any rebates or financing deals or good rates, but they did give us a better than good price and fair offer on our trade-in.
Chip -
NO!!!!
The fact is Pavano pitched decently the last two years (with little injury). I am not saying I am a big fan of the guy, but I think a short term incentive filled contract could be an excellent idea.
Like tyanksfan36 said, they did sign Javy again… anything is possible
Six years for Beltre. Boras is a great agent that is for sure.
Heymansux–
If I knew Sizemore was healthy and get back to what he was, I would do the deal. But I am not Nostradamus…and would not take an unnecessary risk.
When Sizemore does show he has recovered, I might be willing to do the dea, but it will cost more…..perhaps Gardner and Betances. I’d probably do that then.
I’m not a fan of taking on bad contracts unless the player has the talent and ability to fill a need. Thus Zambrano makes sense to me, but Soriano and Hafner do not.
If taking a flier on Sizemore’s health is the price of acquiring Carmona sign me up. Combined they make $ 13.6 Million next year and Carmona is worth that alone if he pitches as he did a year ago (13-14, 3.77, 201 1/3 innings).
# heyman_sux January 4th, 2011 at 11:15 am
The Yanks passed on Crawford and Werth because of Gardner and now they are going to move him for a guy who?s career has been derailed by injuries the last two seasons?
_____
Big difference between 20M for Crawford and 7.5 for Sizemore. And at the time they were prepared to pay Lee. I don’t think they want to make ’08 type offseason spending a regular habit…
————
The chink in that argument, and the reason Cashman wouldn’t take such a gamble, is still the fact that Sizemore hasn’t played a full season in two years.
And that $7.5M is still 15 times what Gardner earns.
Sizemore has to prove he can still play and put those injuries behind him. And even if he does, will he be the Sizemore of old or have those injuries taken their toll on him?
In this business, it’s what have you done for me lately. The Sizemore of old would be an outstanding addition to any team. He was a star. But the fact remains is he is not the Sizemore of old right now until he proves it.
And that’s why Cashman wouldn’t even consider it this offseason.
Because of the way the market is changing, I do believe the Yankees could change their organizational stance on not doing extensions in-season. But will they is another question altogether. They could justify doing so.
It’s really funny.
This season feels like the season the Sux had when they lost out on Tex.
If you recall the Genius’s strategy du jour was run prevention and reclamation projects (Penny, Smoltz, etc.), and it was termed a “bridge year”.
That didn’t work out too well for them that season although Penny was serviceable for a while.
Maybe Cashman recalls that scenario and has decided to try to go in another direction. It might have been pretty instructive now that I think about it.
The downside to all that of course was that the Sux found themselves on the outside looking in.
And yes I know injuries played a big part but I’m really referring to their pitching that season. Kind of the position we find ourselves in at
this moment.
Erica in NY January 4th, 2011 at 11:19 am
The fact is Pavano pitched decently the last two years (with little injury). I am not saying I am a big fan of the guy, but I think a short term incentive filled contract could be an excellent idea.
Like tyanksfan36 said, they did sign Javy again… anything is possible
—————-
Pavano’s looking to cash in on his last two years of health and productivity with a multi-year deal. Yankees aren’t going that route.
There are also too many guys still in that room from when Pavano was here who believe Carl was dogging it for it to be a comfortable fit.
Doreen–
Re: car color. Not sure if you are aware of this, but solid white cars have a lower incidence of auto accidents and I believe may get a break on insurance rates. (They are easier to see at night.)
Bruce Chen!
Giuseppe Franco January 4th, 2011 at 11:22 am
++++++++
Thank you.
Chip,
The Yanks would have at least had serious conversations with Crawford and/or Werth if they truly had any real interest in them.
By all accounts, they didn’t.
So you’re making an assumption and argument that has no evidence to support it.
Young and cheap outfielders like Laird would be much more likely trade targets than Gardner. The front office obviously thinks more highly of him than you and your fantasy trade minions.
I think in a vacuum, Cashman would re-sign Pavano.
But when he re-signed Javy Vazquez last off-season, the guy got off to a poor start and bam! All the ill feelings that some of the fan base had just flourished. I think it must have been exceedingly difficult at times for Javy. He’s a good guy and he wanted to prove he could do the job here, and everything went wrong.
Could you imagine the fall-out if Pavano comes back and after two years of no injury gets so much as a hangnail or blister?
It has to be considered.
Plus, why would Pavano open himself up to any of that, when he doesn’t have to. He’s got choices.
Would Carl Pavano have a better or worse season than Javy Vazquez had in 2010?
(please refrain from answering this question with, “Considering Javy actually pitched in 30 games last year he’d obviously out-pitch Pavano” type comments… its just too easy.)
From MLBTradeRumors:
The Yankees don’t like the idea of giving up a first round pick to sign Grant Balfour or Rafael Soriano, two Type A relievers who turned down offers of arbitration and are now tied to draft pick compensation
I don’t blame them – not when you can go out and sign Jon Rauch or Kelly Gregg or Brian Fuentes without having to give up picks.
The segment also mentions that Larry Rothschild is slated to visit with AJ Burnett to get started on fixing some of AJ’s mechanical issues.
I’ve said it before and I’ll keep on saying it – if Andy doesn’t return the difference between the Yankees making and missing the playoffs is going to be how AJ Burnett performs.
Chip January 4th, 2011 at 11:25 am
Pavano’s looking to cash in on his last two years of health and productivity with a multi-year deal. Yankees aren’t going that route.
There are also too many guys still in that room from when Pavano was here who believe Carl was dogging it for it to be a comfortable fit.
*********
And you don’t believe with an incentive filled contract, he would be trying to prove them and the fans wrong?
Shame Spencer January 4th, 2011 at 11:27 am
Would Carl Pavano have a better or worse season than Javy Vazquez had in 2010?
(please refrain from answering this question with, “Considering Javy actually pitched in 30 games last year he’d obviously out-pitch Pavano” type comments… its just too easy.)
**************
Not quite. Pavano pitched 32 games last year
MTU January 4th, 2011 at 11:24 am
It’s really funny.
This season feels like the season the Sux had when they lost out on Tex.
If you recall the Genius’s strategy du jour was run prevention and reclamation projects (Penny, Smoltz, etc.), and it was termed a “bridge year”
++++++++++
I think you have your timeline messed up.
The reclamatino projects were 2009, but run prevention was 2010.
And it is hard to judge their success or failure on the run prevention strategy when they had so many injuries as well as lousy defense at the most important position–catcher.
Instead, the Yankees ahve excellent defense all around…with potentially 5 Gold Glove winners. With a strong offense and that defense, they have a leg up on either year in Boston.
I don’t think anyone has proposed Sizemore as a straight up target but as someone who might have to be accepted in order to get Carmona. If there’s no Carmona, there’s no reason to trade with the Indians. They are not dealing any of their better extremely low priced players like Perez or Choo.
It’s a realistic look at what it might take, that’s all.
My time here is through…. have a great day all!
Bojo -
I did not know that. I’ve never really been partial to white – or red or black or blue or brown.
I think it would be fun to have a red car, depending on the exact shade, but only for a little while.
Bojo-
I’m old. The memory doesn’t work like it used to.
Thanks for correcting me.
I guess I was referring to the pitching situation of 2009.
A lesson to be garned there IMO.
Giuseppe Franco January 4th, 2011 at 11:27 am
Chip,
The Yanks would have at least had serious conversations with Crawford and/or Werth if they truly had any real interest in them.
By all accounts, they didn’t.
So you’re making an assumption and argument that has no evidence to support it.
Young and cheap outfielders like Laird would be much more likely trade targets than Gardner. The front office obviously thinks more highly of him than you and your fantasy trade minions.
——————-
Why would a team consider Brandon Laird a better trade target than Brett Gardner?
Laird has played a total of what? 20 games over AA. Gardner on the other hand has played a little over 2 seasons in the majors with positive results.
Laird is just learning how to play the OF while Brett Gardner is a top defender in LF and CF
And I’m not disputing – the Yankees at the time had no real interest in Crawford or Werth – but then Cliff Lee signed with the Phillies and Andy’s return became a lot more cloudy – so it’s a safe assumption to say that things have changed a bit since the start of the winter meetings to today and what wasn’t a consideration then (moving Gardner) may be a consideration now.
Doreen–
I didn’t like white either, but my wife found that data and insisted. I got used to it, and actually felt it prevented a few fender benders as I drive around Philly.
Erica in NY January 4th, 2011 at 11:28 am
Chip January 4th, 2011 at 11:25 am
Pavano’s looking to cash in on his last two years of health and productivity with a multi-year deal. Yankees aren’t going that route.
There are also too many guys still in that room from when Pavano was here who believe Carl was dogging it for it to be a comfortable fit.
*********
And you don’t believe with an incentive filled contract, he would be trying to prove them and the fans wrong?
—————-
No. I think Pavano’s a jerk but I don’t think he’s dumb.
A 3 year deal vs. an incentive laden contract to prove the Yankees and their fans wrong is a no-brainer.
Although Pavano makes sense in that he is the best availabel free agent starter, I think the return engagement of Vasquez will cause Cashman to rule out Pavano. He would have too much explaining to do if Pavano spent more years in the MRI tube.
Chip:
You have one giant flaw in your logic.
No team is tripping over themselves to give Pavano a 3-year deal.
Pitchers and catchers report in just over 5 weeks. He is still sitting on the market
MTU January 4th, 2011 at 11:32 am
Bojo-
I’m old. The memory doesn’t work like it used to.
Thanks for correcting me.
I guess I was referring to the pitching situation of 2009.
A lesson to be garned there IMO.
++++++
NP.
IMO, Cashman has never expressed much interest in reclamation projects. I think the team philosophy is that they have the revenue streams to buy the best, or at least acquire those projects IF they prove successful.
Sometimes Cashman has taken a low level flier on reclams if the role is a minor one (Prior, Bruney, Hirsh), but he wouldn’t consider counting on the player as a key contributor, especially to filling a SP role.
austinmac January 4th, 2011 at 11:36 am
Although Pavano makes sense in that he is the best availabel free agent starter, I think the return engagement of Vasquez will cause Cashman to rule out Pavano. He would have too much explaining to do if Pavano spent more years in the MRI tube.
————————-
Also there’s a vast difference in the situations.
Cashman got Javy for one year; giving up very little for him in the process. To get Pavano you’re talking about a 3 or 4 year deal at probably close to 10 or 11 mil per year. That’s a lot to invest in a guy who has already burned you once.
My only real issue with Pavano’s return is we’ll be told our fans are ignorant and classless for boo-ing one of our own players..
Just seems like an issue worth avoiding
Erica in NY January 4th, 2011 at 11:37 am
Chip:
You have one giant flaw in your logic.
No team is tripping over themselves to give Pavano a 3-year deal.
Pitchers and catchers report in just over 5 weeks. He is still sitting on the market
——————
Very true – but I like to keep in mind that just because we’re not hearing about the offers doesn’t mean they aren’t out there. We didn’t hear anything about the Nats signing Werth or the Brewers dealing for Greinke or the Phillies signing Lee until those deals were just about cemented.
Erica – I heard he had some 2-year offers though. He’d still likely take the security.
That Beltre signing may look pretty ugly in a year or 2. I don’t like that player except in walk years. Seems to be a loafer otherwise. We’ll see.
See you all later…got the flu today and am going back to sleep.
Bojo-
What are guys like Garcia and Francis then ?
Is Cashman considering them ?
Who knows.
Going with AJ and 2 rooks is not palatable to me either.
Trading will cost us dearly.
Those are the options.
None are ideal.
Another feather in the Sux cap; they will get two first round picks for Beltre.
I think Young will DH and play second; going to be tough to trade him with the no-trade clause and about $50 million left on his deal. Pretty imposing lineup with Young, Beltre, Hamilton, Cruz, etc.
Chip January 4th, 2011 at 11:40 am
Very true – but I like to keep in mind that just because we’re not hearing about the offers doesn’t mean they aren’t out there. We didn’t hear anything about the Nats signing Werth or the Brewers dealing for Greinke or the Phillies signing Lee until those deals were just about cemented.
************
Chip, in my experience as a fan it seems like every trade and signing that actually goes through is almost never heard in advance
Beltre about to get 6 years from Texas?
Good. We see how he plays in non- contract years. Good luck in the next 5 Texas.
Chip,
Laird is a better trade target from the Yanks perspective than Gardner. I wouldn’t say he’s untouchable, but it would take a very compelling offer from someone else to deal him.
Laird is just learning to play the outfield, but can swing the bat, and Gardner is their starting left fielder who can really play defense.
MTU January 4th, 2011 at 11:41 am
Bruce Che- check out his 2010 game log.
http://www.baseball-reference......;year=2010
Later!
BoJo-
Feel better!
Giuseppe Franco January 4th, 2011 at 11:42 am
Chip,
Laird is a better trade target from the Yanks perspective than Gardner. I wouldn’t say he’s untouchable, but it would take a very compelling offer from someone else to deal him.
Laird is just learning to play the outfield, but can swing the bat, and Gardner is their starting left fielder who can really play defense.
—————
That’s a fair point of view. But again, if you’re a team that has a valuable commodity, who on the Yankees are you going after?
I’m not willing to throw Gardner into some random deal just to move Gardner – but if I’m getting someone back who helps the pitching staff I would do it in a second.
I can’t consider Brett untouchable when there are guys out there this year who can fill his role a lot easier than there are guys who can lock down the 3 or 4 spot in the rotation.
And when you consider next year’s crop of FA’s; once again there will be a lot more OF options than SP options to pick from.
Who signed Beltre to a six-year deal?
A team that has practically done nothing this OS is the Angels.
Weren’t they supposed be in on both cc and Beltre ?
Are they ceding the AL west to the Rangers, or the A’s ?
What happened to the mighty Angels ? Our former nemesis.
What a hoot.
Texas apparently giving Beltre 5 with a ‘vesting’ sixth.
Doreen-
If you haven’t already check out the edmunds site I posted at 10:08 on this post re: comparing the Q5, Tiguan, MDX, and RDX. I believe Audi is offering the dealer and buyer rebates on the Audi Q5.
The chink in that argument, and the reason Cashman wouldn?t take such a gamble, is still the fact that Sizemore hasn?t played a full season in two years.
And that $7.5M is still 15 times what Gardner earns.
Sizemore has to prove he can still play and put those injuries behind him. And even if he does, will he be the Sizemore of old or have those injuries taken their toll on him?
In this business, it?s what have you done for me lately. The Sizemore of old would be an outstanding addition to any team. He was a star. But the fact remains is he is not the Sizemore of old right now until he proves it.
And that?s why Cashman wouldn?t even consider it this offseason.
______
Sorry, I’m a bit late on this. I get your argument and actually agree with most points. But the orginal proposal was for a trade involving Carmona+Sizemore. I simply dispute the notion that Gardner is somehow untouchable in that deal bc Sizemore would not have been able to fill an outfield need due to injury questions.
Texas just told the angels, get use to not winning the AL West.
I just can’t believe the Angels sat on their hands this off season. I can just imagine their fan base is really angry.
Later folkd, have a nice day.
Pavano will not settle for an incentive deal.
17-11,3.75 era,1.19 whip & 221 innings,not happening.
Now he might have too take a 1 or 2 year contract but not an incentive based one.
A pitcher with those numbers is worth 10-15 million on the open market.
An incentive deal is for pitchers coming back from injury like wang,webb.
Have the Rangers re-signed Vlad or not?
If not I would say this pretty much shuts the door on him coming back and it would leave me pretty interested to see where he lands.
There are some Mariner fans who are giggling to themselves about giving Beltre a 6 year contract.
Boston gets picks back for losing Beltre and Victor and loses their own pick to Tampa for Crawford.
So Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford, Bobby Jenks, Dan Wheeler and 4 first round picks for Victor Martinez, Adrian Beltre and 2 first round picks – not a bad winter for Theo.
Texas?
What is Michael Young going to be asked to do this time?
The Angels needed one of Beltre/Crawford…..hard to.figure what they are doing. Wonder what happens with Vlad now.
Al-
Me too.
Can’t understand what the hell happened there.
Not that I care mind you.
I can’t stand Scioscia. Him and Maddon both.
Real whiners. Ever seen the expressions Scioscia makes when calls don’t don’t go his way.
Asks for whine with his cheese. No dignity.
Adios Angels.
If Rangers sign Beltre, does Young move to 1st, DH or get traded?
Young has a limited no-trade protection from 2010 to May, 2011 (submits list of 8 clubs to which he’d accept trade), before receiving 10-and-5 rights in May, 2011.
Where does Vlad sign?
Moreland and others to Rays for Matt Garza?
Could Arte Moreno be having financial problems?
Time for me to hit the road too.
Catch you all later.
Chip,
They haven’t. If Texas can talk Young into.playing 1B then they could still.have room for Vlad…..if not then my guess is that Tampa could be a fit.
Joe-
Whatever it is, it couldn’t have happened to a nicer team.
Except for the Sux, of course.
Have the Rangers re-signed Vlad or not?
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THey have not yet re-signed him, even tho I thought the option was declined with the understanding the would work something out. I don’t think they’d resign Vlad now unless they could trade Young first. Now I really have no idea where Vlad winds up
MTU -
Yeah I don’t know what the Angels are thinking right now. They will get back Kendry Morales, that’ll help, but their 3b situation is awful unless you actually believe in Alberto Callaspo. They brought in Scott Downs to set up Fernando Rodney which was a bit of a shock given everyone thought they would be in on Soriano.
They could still make a deal – send Napoli somewhere for a 3b or LF maybe. And they still have the best rotation in that division (Haren, Weaver, Santana, Piniero, Kazmir) so I wouldn’t completely write them off yet.
I guess they’re also planning on using Juan Rivera as their full time DH with Hunter, Abreu and X in the OF.
MTU – well, now that you mentioned it…..
Later.
Could Arte Moreno be having financial problems?
——————————————
Don’t know, but I heard that Beltre lives 20 minutes from Anaheim.
blake January 4th, 2011 at 11:55 am
Chip,
They haven’t. If Texas can talk Young into.playing 1B then they could still.have room for Vlad…..if not then my guess is that Tampa could be a fit.
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Blake -
I think Mitch Moreland showed enough last year – especially in the post season – to get a full look at 1b so I think Young is destined to be the DH.
Tampa would be interesting for Vlad – The Angels might be interested in bringing him back too.
Chip-
The Halos almost make me feel good about our OS.
Chip-
Abreu is now the DH and Vlad is looking for a 2 year deal to DH.
Yankee Trader January 4th, 2011 at 11:56 am
Could Arte Moreno be having financial problems?
——————————————
Don’t know, but I heard that Beltre lives 20 minutes from Anaheim.
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Moreno and Beltre’s agent (Boras) have had a frosty relationship since the Tex signing. I think that may have played into not only why they didn’t ink Beltre but also why they have (to this point) shown no interest in Soriano.
Yankee Trader January 4th, 2011 at 11:58 am
Chip-
Abreu is now the DH and Vlad is looking for a 2 year deal to DH.
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Trader – I knew that was the plan if the Angels had signed Crawford – is it still? What’s their OF alignment?
Chip,
What is your fascination with Justin Masterson?
MTU January 4th, 2011 at 11:57 am
Chip-
The Halos almost make me feel good about our OS.
————-
As I say – things can always be worse.
I’d love for the Angels to just sorta give up on 2011 and let us grab one of their starters
LGY January 4th, 2011 at 12:00 pm
Chip,
What is your fascination with Justin Masterson?
——————–
If by fascination you mean my one post about him today…
good young pitcher who I think would be a nice addition to the rotation. No real mystery.
heyman_sux January 4th, 2011 at 12:00 pm
I’d love for the Angels to just sorta give up on 2011 and let us grab one of their starters
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I’m pretty sure if Brain wanted Kazmir he could have him
“Just throwing this one out there:
Atlanta gets: Gardner and Brackman
Yankees get: Jurrjens and McLouth”
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Chip,
This is the perfect example of your disconnect of Gardner’s value.
Before Lee signed with the Phillies, I though Jurrjens could be a back up plan so I did a search on an Atlanta Braves board. Sure enough, a trade of Jurrjens to the Yankees was suggested for Brett Gardner straight up and most of the Braves fans loved that idea.
I?m pretty sure if Brain wanted Kazmir he could have him
________
True. Prob not my first choice tho. Weaver’s prob untouchable too
What is Michael Young going to be asked to do this time?
___
Clean toilets?
I’d love for the Angels to just sorta give up on 2011 and let us grab one of their starters
__
Jered Weaver is a free agent next year no?
LGY,
I’ve discussed that deal with several if my friends who are Braves fans and they all like it because they know how bad they need a CFer and they know that Gardner would be great in their lineup. The problem on the Yankees end is the lack of current options to replace Gardner.
Morosi says the deal would be a vesting option for the 6th year, not guaranteed.
LGY January 4th, 2011 at 12:04 pm
“Just throwing this one out there:
Atlanta gets: Gardner and Brackman
Yankees get: Jurrjens and McLouth”
——————
Chip,
This is the perfect example of your disconnect of Gardner’s value.
Before Lee signed with the Phillies, I though Jurrjens could be a back up plan so I did a search on an Atlanta Braves board. Sure enough, a trade of Jurrjens to the Yankees was suggested for Brett Gardner straight up and most of the Braves fans loved that idea.
———————-
I don’t get the logic – because Atlanta fans like a trade that makes it unfair from a Yankee standpoint?
And what’s more – unless one of the fans who loved the idea was Frank Wren who cares what their opinion of Brett Gardner is? I’m sure as fans we have a view that is very different on some Yankee players or prospects from the opinions of those within the organization right?
Trader – I knew that was the plan if the Angels had signed Crawford – is it still? What’s their OF alignment?
————————————————————-
I believe you’re right, that it was the plan back in November if the Angels signed Crawford.
As a DH, Abreu in 210 plate career appearances, his numbers are .257/.352/.383. In his 17 starts as a DH in 2010, he struggled mightily: .143/.211/.200.
blake January 4th, 2011 at 12:07 pm
LGY,
I’ve discussed that deal with several if my friends who are Braves fans and they all like it because they know how bad they need a CFer and they know that Gardner would be great in their lineup. The problem on the Yankees end is the lack of current options to replace Gardner.
—————–
Which brings me back to Johnny Damon on a 1 year deal.
Chip January 4th, 2011 at 12:08 pm
LGY January 4th, 2011 at 12:04 pm
“Just throwing this one out there:
Atlanta gets: Gardner and Brackman
Yankees get: Jurrjens and McLouth”
——————
Chip,
This is the perfect example of your disconnect of Gardner’s value.
Before Lee signed with the Phillies, I though Jurrjens could be a back up plan so I did a search on an Atlanta Braves board. Sure enough, a trade of Jurrjens to the Yankees was suggested for Brett Gardner straight up and most of the Braves fans loved that idea.
—————-
by the way – if the Yankees could get the deal done without including Brackman I’m still all for it. I would do a one-for-one Gardner for Jurrjens and not lose a minute’s sleep.
I think Jered Weaver is arbitration eligible. From Cot’s:
1 year/$4.265M (2010)
re-signed by Angels 1/19/10 (avoided arbitration)
“I don’t get the logic – because Atlanta fans like a trade that makes it unfair from a Yankee standpoint?”
————————-
It shows that even Atlanta Braves fans see how valuable Gardner is and that as a Yankee fan you are probably spending too much time focusing on his flaws instead of recognizing his ability. You need to broaden your view on Brett Gardner.
Chip,
Yea I don’t know….we talked about this before. I would love Damon back as a 4th outfielder/DH. I just don’t know if he can handle LF full time anymore and I don’t know if adding Jurjins to the rotation would make up for losing Gardner…..what’s the long term solution for LF in that case? The Yankees have more pitching on the way than they do outfielders. Its not a ridiculous trade to consider but does it actually make the Yankees a better team in 2011…..Im not sure.
Yankee Trader January 4th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Trader – I knew that was the plan if the Angels had signed Crawford – is it still? What’s their OF alignment?
————————————————————-
I believe you’re right, that it was the plan back in November if the Angels signed Crawford.
As a DH, Abreu in 210 plate career appearances, his numbers are .257/.352/.383. In his 17 starts as a DH in 2010, he struggled mightily: .143/.211/.200.
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That whole team struggled mightily last year – I give them a pass
The Angels supposedly gave Beltre a 5/70 “final offer”
“I would do a one-for-one Gardner for Jurrjens and not lose a minute’s sleep.”
Who would………besides the Braves front office?
LGY January 4th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
“I don’t get the logic – because Atlanta fans like a trade that makes it unfair from a Yankee standpoint?”
————————-
It shows that even Atlanta Braves fans see how valuable Gardner is and that as a Yankee fan you are probably spending too much time focusing on his flaws instead of recognizing his ability. You need to broaden your view on Brett Gardner.
—————-
Ok, then forget Brackman and forget McLouth:
Yankees get Jurrjens
Braves get Gardner
Yankees sign Johnny Damon to play LF and use Greg Golson as his defensive caddy; everyone walks away happy and the Yankees gear up to go after Grady Sizemore or Jose Bautista as FA’s in 2012 or hope that Brandon Laird plays well enough in LF to slot in there.
I would love to see the rally monkeys finish in 3rd place in 2011…..that’s where they are headed right now.
LGY says:
January 4, 2011 at 12:13 pm
“I don’t get the logic – because Atlanta fans like a trade that makes it unfair from a Yankee standpoint?”
————————-
It shows that even Atlanta Braves fans see how valuable Gardner is and that as a Yankee fan you are probably spending too much time focusing on his flaws instead of recognizing his ability. You need to broaden your view on Brett Gardner.
—-
That’s how I feel about Gardner. Everyone want to include him in a trade when I think he would be worth it as the centerpiece in a trade, though I’d like to say it would make me upset if they even thought to trade him because of how valuable I find him. He is fast, steals bases and I’m sure he will steal more once he gets more confidence and learns pitchers moves. He was awesome for us in the outfield, he is young and really cheap. So what if he can’t bunt, most times he can beat the double play.
Yankee Trader -
I did follow the link.
The dealership in Princeton offered us a very fair discount and a fair very price on our trade-in. But the financing terms were not great; we would lease the vehicle from them most likely.
The difference in the Tiguan and Q5 models we’re interested in is about $9,000. I’m thinking there’s a couple of things i could do with that difference. I just need to drive the VW once more before I commit to either one. (Also, the Audi dealer had zero Q5s left – we were fortunate to get to sit in one before it was picked up by its rightful owner.
) The VW would also have to be ordered for the exact car I’d like.
“Jered Weaver is a free agent next year no?”
Nope. He’s one after 2012.
The Angels shouldn’t have said they were going to be big spenders in the offseason
Even the Yankees have done more than they have..
I thought I read somewhere that Michael Young said he would not be open to moving positions again. Can’t say I blame him. He’s been the the quintessential team player and gets no consideration.
GGBG was a pleasant surprise last year. Hopefully he makes a full recovery from the wrist surgery. With a bit more experience/confidence, I could see him stealing even more bases.
I would love to see the return of JD, but as a 4th OF.
Doreen
thanks for doing your part to support the economy!
“That’s how I feel about Gardner. Everyone want to include him in a trade when I think he would be worth it as the centerpiece in a trade”
He’s not the centerpiece if you’re targeting good young pitching. He just isn’t. Doesn’t make him a bad ballplayer. He’s been pretty good. But he doesn’t get you a 25 year old pitcher, who when healthy, can give you 200 productive innings.
I would trade Gardner but to do so it really needs to be for a starter that’s worth the probable downgrade you’re going to take in LF……if you could make the move and then trade for Sizemore fairly cheaply then ok……but that’s a lot of moving parts.
Seems to me Damon’s lefthandedness would preclude him coming back to the Yankees.
“I thought I read somewhere that Michael Young said he would not be open to moving positions again. Can’t say I blame him. He’s been the the quintessential team player and gets no consideration.”
He gets $16M per season. That’s plenty of consideration. Further, he’s apparently agreed to DH and be a super utility type if it meant getting Beltre.
What the Angels have done is much worse than the Yankees this winter. There was one player out there that clearly made sense for the Yankees and they offered him the most guaranteed money….the Angels had 2 players that made perfect sense for them and they cheaped out in both cases.
“….the Angels had 2 players that made perfect sense for them and they cheaped out in both cases.”
Yes, but will they regret it? Or is it more likely Boston/Texas will? Not making a judgment call here either way, but sometimes the Angels being cheap in a division that isn’t that great has worked out for them…
Mell -
I understand he’s well-compensated. He just seems to always be asked to move around. I suppose it’s a compliment of sorts. And that he’s agreed to DH and be a “ute” – well, as long as he’s on board, that’s all that matters. Thanks for the update.
Gardner’s not getting traded. The Yankees passed up on Matt Holliday last season arguably to focus on my boy Carl Crawford. Yet because Gardner excelled so well, they passed up on him also.
And now he’s to be traded for Sizemore? Are you kidding me? Not happening. Had either of those moves taken place, either Gardner or Granderson may have been expendable. Neither happened, so neither will a trade of Gardner unless it brings back a major piece – and Sizemore is no longer major, due to his limited playing time the last two seasons and injury history.
damon showed significant offensive decline again last year and doesnt steal anyomre. we saw how bad he was in LF in 2009 and he’ll be 2 years older now. he’d be a significant downgrade from gardner at this point.