Cashman: “I will not lose our No. 1 draft pick”
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 07, 2011 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Essentially taking himself out of the running for Rafael Soriano, Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said this afternoon that he absolutely will not make a move that costs the Yankees their top draft pick.
“I will not lose our No. 1 draft pick,” Cashman said. “I would have for Cliff Lee. I won’t lose our No. 1 draft pick for anyone else.”
Most Type-A free agents have already signed — including Lee — but Soriano and Grant Balfour are still on the market. The Yankees have been linked to Soriano quite often, but Cashman said it’s possible to link the Yankees to just about every free agent out there. Cashman checks on the availability and asking price of pretty much everyone — “That’s my job,” he said — but those conversations don’t necessarily go any further.
“Talking about somebody doesn’t characterize a level of interest in any guy,” Cashman said. “And obviously this winter we’ve done a lot of talking.”
The Yankees most serious discussions centered on Lee. Aside from their own free agents — Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera — it was Lee who best fit the Yankees offseason needs. The Yankees made an aggressive push, but Lee ultimately settled into a deal with the Phillies. In the weeks since Lee signed, the free agent market has gone from bad to worse.
“It wasn’t strong,” Cashman said. “It’s certainly a lot less strong since (Lee) made his decision.”
What remains at the top of the free agent market is a group of designated hitters and a group of late-inning relievers. The Yankees have no spot for a DH, and they feel no need to be overly aggressive in chasing a reliever. That said, former closers Brian Fuentes and Jon Rauch are among the relievers still on the market who would not cost a draft pick.
“We’re going to show up in Tampa, and we’re going to have a team that we’re proud of,” Cashman said.
—
If only because I’ve gotten a surprising number of emails on this topic… In theory, the Yankees could work out some sort of sign-and-trade scenario to land a Type-A free agent without losing a draft pick. Cashman called such a move a “legal maneuver” but also acknowledged that those sort of trades are complicated and difficult to pull off. They rarely happen in baseball.
“You don’t add pieces like Pena and Garza and then trade away your best pitcher in a salary dump – at least not at this point in the year.”
——————-
Zambrano is not their best pitcher. You are talking about a guy who was such a disaster that the Cubs moved him to the bullpen at one point last year. Garza and Dempster are now their best pitchers.
Z is at best the 3 on that team.
Wouldn’t it have been easier for Cashman to say, “I will not… do ANYTHING.”
What a worthless loser we have for a GM. Like he knows what to do with a first-round pick anyway.
Maybe he can overwhelm with his brilliance again by passing on another stud pitcher from the LSU to reach for some high school SS he could have had two rounds later.
“I will not lose our No. 1 draft pick,” Cashman said. “I would have for Cliff Lee. I won’t lose our No. 1 draft pick for anyone else.”
Awesome.
Atta boy, Cash. No giving up a #1 in such a deep draft, especially not for a reliever.
I prefer to keep that pick myself,esp this year.
have I mentioned recently how much I dislike Gerrit Cole?
This might be the silliest thing I’ve ever seen attributed to Brian Cashman.
I’ve defended him on a lot of the hits he’s taken on this board – but with all the financial advantages the Yankees have when it comes to getting amateur players – this just blows my mind.
The Yankees could easily overcome the loss of a first round pick by going well above slot to get first round talent in the second or third rounds or by signing international free agents.
It’s especially odd when you consider how overly silly their last draft was – reaching on Cito Culver in the first round and then telling everyone who will listen that you believe you’ve got a superstar ss in the system in Eduardo Nunez. Well if that’s the case then why reach on Culver rather than addressing an area of great need (OF)?
Anyway – whatever – just go sign Fuentes and Rauch and keep the draft pick.
“We’re going to show up in Tampa, and we’re going to have a team that we’re proud of,” Cashman said.”
lol
Good luck with that.
I understand wanting to keep the draft pick, especially since they’d be losing it to Tampa……but I also think Soriano could really help them.
Gerrit Cole. The one that got away. Man that would have been sweet to have him in the system right now. Cole, Banuelos, Betances, Brackman. Wow!
The Yankees may be able to draft a player that jumps right into their top 5 prospects with a first round pick in this draft.
Well if that’s the case then why reach on Culver rather than addressing an area of great need (OF)?
–
You never draft for need in baseball.
J. Alfred Prufrock January 7th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
have I mentioned recently how much I dislike Gerrit Cole?
————–
Eh, I can’t knock a kid for picking college over a contract. He signs with the Yankees and blows out his arm, he’s got nothing. Go to college, get yourself close to a degree, still get first round money – smarter way to go.
“But you want to gain as many picks as you can. That gives you a great advantage in the draft, especially what’s shaping up to be a terrific draft, potentially. You really want to have as many picks as you can, but certainly there are plenty of players in this free agent class that are worth surrendering picks for. If we could reach agreement with those players we wouldn’t let picks stand in the way.”
– Theo Epstein (12/2010)
“Well if that’s the case then why reach on Culver rather than addressing an area of great need (OF)?”
—————–
Drafting for need is a terrible draft strategy.
Chip January 7th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
GreenBeret7 January 7th, 2011 at 1:58 pm
All they did was replace a $13.5 mil first baseman FA for a $10 mil first baseman.
—————-
They dumped Lee during the season. If they wanted to spare the coin then they could have played Colvin at 1b or gone with a less expensive option than Pena.
You don’t add pieces like Pena and Garza and then trade away your best pitcher in a salary dump – at least not at this point in the year.
If Chicago falls out of it – and I mean way out of it – by July then maybe you can get Zambrano. But getting him before the season starts is not happening.
They’ll either send Gorzo to the pen or do a bad contract for bad contract deal with Silva – but they’re not moving Z. Not yet.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Well, you’re still wrong about why they wouldn’t move Zambrano. They now have a payroll of $150 mil and a ton of debt. Colvin is not a 1st baseman and they’re stuck with a totally unmovable contract in Soriano and a nearly unmovable contract in Silva.
LGY January 7th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
Gerrit Cole. The one that got away. Man that would have been sweet to have him in the system right now. Cole, Banuelos, Betances, Brackman. Wow!
————–
Still could happen – in theory.
Don’t forget that other kid they signed this winter – the Dominican everyone says is a stud.
Wow can this guy f this team up any more than he’s already done? He’s worried about losing a f’ing prospect (what like #30) that may or may not amount to anything in 5 years. How many of his #1 prospects have actually be successful the last 10 years ….1? That’s a .100 batting average – AND he’s worried about losing this one for arguably the best reliever on the market…..Goddamn if he’s so bent on collecting propsects then go be the f’ing GM of the F’ing Nationals….spending money is how the f’ing yankees win – there are 100 rounds in the f’ing baseball draft and almost always the better players come from no where in the 20 or 30 rounds anyway….what a bleep hole…he’s single handedly turning a championshiop caliber team to an average crappy team….does he not realize that in 3 years he won’t have ANY of the players that have actually proven to be winners and instead will have his precious pena’s, cervelli’s and nunez’s making up the bulk of his bleepy teams….
Well . .we can cross Soriano off the list !
LGY – that’s just cruel.I’m sorry I mentioned the b a s t a r d
The Red Sox have a billion draft picks this year.
Their situation is not comparable in the least.
Easy for Theo to say that – he has, what, 5 extra picks this year from Beltre, Martinez, Lopez? Maybe even more.
I would much rather sign Rauch or Fuentes than give up the draft pick. Cash, focus on the starting pitching please!!
Theo also made a ton of waiver pickups on Type-B guys and had multiple Type-A’s leaving to other teams by design.
The Yankees have their 1st round pick and 1 supplemental. The Red Sox signed crawford, losing their first rounder to tampa, but gain the Ranger’s 1st + a supplemental, supplemental round picks for a number of other players they got off the waiver, got detroits 1st + a supplemental.
Don’t forget that other kid they signed this winter – the Dominican everyone says is a stud.
///DePaula I have high hopes for.glad we went for it.
Why draft Culver while having Nunez? About 4 years…the number of years between Nunez and Culver.
DePaula! I can’t wait to see him pitch.
& we are actually stockpiling OF’ers. They are just a few years away.
From Brian McPherson
ProJo Sox Blog
Red Sox 2011 Draft Picks:
First round:
No. 19
No. 26
Supplemental first round:
No. 36
No. 40
No. 50
Second round
No. 85
That’s potentially five of the first 50 selections and six of the first 85. The last time the Red Sox had so many selections that high in the draft was 2005, when they nabbed Clay Buchholz, Jacoby Ellsbury and Jed Lowrie.
GreenBeret7 January 7th, 2011 at 2:13 pm
———————————————————————————————————————-
Well, you’re still wrong about why they wouldn’t move Zambrano. They now have a payroll of $150 mil and a ton of debt. Colvin is not a 1st baseman and they’re stuck with a totally unmovable contract in Soriano and a nearly unmovable contract in Silva.
————————————–
Again though – Moving Zambrano doesn’t change the fact that they have bad contracts on the team in Soriano or Silva. They’ll still have those contracts and be a worse team.
And Silva’s not as hard to move as you might think – again, they would have to do what they did when they got him for Milton Bradley – take on someone else’s bad contract but still maybe save a few bucks in the deal.
As I said – Silva for Castillo would make a ton of sense for both teams.
cashman needs to go,
More and more, it is looking like a transition year. He better hit on those draft picks.
Cashman needs to go – –
I have to agree with you ! . . I can see if we had the a top ten pick !! . Damn its a stinking crapshoot . . And with the Yankees resources and stacked farm system . . It should be a no brainer move ! .
can’t wait to see MEAT TRAY Pitch
Red Sox better have the extra picks, considering how many they have had to deal off lately.
just because he has Lee $ and Andy $ doesn’t mean he will or have to spend the Cash……my bet he does nothing & goes with what he has with maybe a minor addition
The one thing I am sad about Cash is that he doesn’t game the system like Theo did. His team obviously looks at the estimated elias rankings and he targeted a number of players that were going to be type-b’s this offseason and picked them up at the end of the year. They spent marginal time on the 40-man and now he is getting a bunch of free draft picks from these players.
The yankees 40-man might not be conducive to this type of strategy, but its a shame the Yankees never seem to get the Type-A’s or Type-B’s that a team can feel comfortable offering arbitration too. (The yankees type-a/type-b’s are generally over priced older players acquired in a salary dump / trade that would never be offered arbitration because they’d accept)
Chip-
DePaula.
WCYF
Bo offense, but you are reading the ProJo Blog. Scary. That paper is a rag. I didn’t even read it when I lived in Providence, RI.
Chip January 7th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
J. Alfred Prufrock January 7th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
have I mentioned recently how much I dislike Gerrit Cole?
————–
Eh, I can’t knock a kid for picking college over a contract. He signs with the Yankees and blows out his arm, he’s got nothing. Go to college, get yourself close to a degree, still get first round money – smarter way to go.
///
the brat could’ve blown out his arm in college for that matter,& not made a cent.actually I think it was the old man that detoured him from the Bronx if I remember the reports correctly.
Face,
Agreed. Can’t believe the Sox are getting a draft pick for Felipe friggin Lopez.
Should read *No* offense
Cubs have a need for prospects and moving money…not swapping dollar for dollar. A $150 mil payroll and no chance at the post season won’t help that.
I have read the Sox will have 6 of the first 80 picks. Presumably, the Yankees will have two.
Cole gave no indication he wasn’t signable. His father then stopped returning the Yankees calls and decided for Cole that he was going to college.
just because he has Lee $ and Andy $ doesn’t mean he will or have to spend the Cash……my bet he does nothing & goes with what he has with maybe a minor addition
__
There will be a revolt if Mitre sniffs that rotation.
“Red Sox better have the extra picks, considering how many they have had to deal off lately”
The only player they lost picks for this winter was Crawford.
They have 5 draft selections in the 1st + supplemental rounds.
The problem with Cole was that he misled the Yankees.
No problem with a kid picking college over the pros. Just don’t tell the Yankees you are going to sign then back out. That’s messed up.
The Yankees offer all their HS draftees very extensive college tuition scholarships. So even if he busts out, he can just go to College.
yankeefeminista January 7th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
WCYF – Bo offense, but you are reading the ProJo Blog. Scary. That paper is a rag. I didn’t even read it when I lived in Providence, RI.
**************
I don’t read that blog I have never seen it before today. I was researching Red Sox 2011 draft picks as Cashman was talking about not giving up a number one for Soriano.
just because he has Lee $ and Andy $ doesn?t mean he will or have to spend the Cash-
Joeman —
Good .. because if this team sucks . . .come August . .i won’t be spending MY CASH.. to do my anual Yankee Stadium visit. Sorry .. i’m not paying for OVERPRICED seats to watch Meat Tray and Ivan Nova pitch. .. ( i’ll stay home and watch , but the yanks won’t see a dime from me ) .
The Yankees could have draft Casey Kelly if they knew Cole wouldn’t have signed
Casey Kelly would never have reached immortal status in the Yankee organization though.
Not to worry – based upon the Yankees historical drafting success, they will undoubtedly waste that valuable draft pick on someone who (i) wants to go to college; (ii) has a history of injuries; (iii) loses a bar fight and disables himself permanently; or (iv) doesn’t make it out of single A.
Much better than actually using it to sign a player who they might need this year.
Nova has a good arm and is what?23?Nova is what’s good about the yanks.
Cashman called such a move a “legal maneuver” but also acknowledged that those sort of trades are complicated and difficult to pull off. They rarely happen in baseball.
**********************************
Oh really?…funny that soriano was acquired by the rays in the same exact manner that this f’ing dummy cashman says its complicated to do…complicated for a mental midget like cashman but if you are a GM that actually knows what you’re doing its probably not so difficult…cashman really was best suited to continue bringing coffee to the executives on the club that actually were good at their jobs…
“Oh really?…funny that soriano was acquired by the rays in the same exact manner that this f’ing dummy cashman says its complicated to do…complicated for a mental midget like cashman but if you are a GM that actually knows what you’re doing its probably not so difficult…cashman really was best suited to continue bringing coffee to the executives on the club that actually were good at their jobs…”
———————
haha what???
Soriano accepted arbitration last year and was traded because the Braves did not expect that to happen. This would be completely different.
Rauch is still available.
He could help.
Not to mention a difference trading for Soriano from the NL east, as opposed to trading for Soriano from your rival.
Not to worry ? based upon the Yankees historical drafting success, they will undoubtedly waste that valuable draft pick on someone who (i) wants to go to college; (ii) has a history of injuries; (iii) loses a bar fight and disables himself permanently; or (iv) doesn?t make it out of single A.
Much better than actually using it to sign a player who they might need this year.
————
LOL LOL LOL LOL
Mike Ri January 7th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
just because he has Lee $ and Andy $ doesn?t mean he will or have to spend the Cash-
Joeman —
Good .. because if this team sucks . . .come August . .i won’t be spending MY CASH.. to do my anual Yankee Stadium visit. Sorry .. i’m not paying for OVERPRICED seats to watch Meat Tray and Ivan Nova pitch. .. ( i’ll stay home and watch , but the yanks won’t see a dime from me ) .
———————
You really think the Yankees suck? They have a really good team just need some pieces but who can say Nova will or will notproduce, if Martin is good or not, if Montero plays his way into the lineup, if Joba performs better, or some other guy comes out of nowhere to make a contribution. Yankees have an excellent offensive team, an ace, a young right handed starter on the rise, a solid bullpen, a great closer. The positives outweight the negatives. This team is a playoff contender like it is most every year. That’s a good starting point. There is another 6 weeks to the off-season, spring training, the whole season through July to makes trades and make the team better. No need to write them off in January.
“Hey Tampa, I know you were wanting a draft pick and all but how about doing a sign and trade for a junk minor leaguer instead to help us out?”
cashman really was best suited to continue bringing coffee to the executives on the club that actually were good at their jobs…
////
.
that is now LGY’s job,and if he’s smart,he’ll brew some up and personally deliver it to Billy Eppler, Livia style (see I Claudius) and maybe THEN we can entertain putting Joba back in the rotation
Niblick January 7th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Not to worry – based upon the Yankees historical drafting success, they will undoubtedly waste that valuable draft pick on someone who (i) wants to go to college; (ii) has a history of injuries; (iii) loses a bar fight and disables himself permanently; or (iv) doesn’t make it out of single A.
Much better than actually using it to sign a player who they might need this year.
***************
or yet another average pitcher, yet another catcher or some guy who isn’t even in the top 100 prospects but is willing to take 6th round money for being drafted in the 1st round (like cito culver did)
hahahaha i knew that was gonna send the cash-haters over the edge! i LOVE it!
and the best part is they really cant prove he’s wrong until we know who the draft pick turned out to be….!
“Man that would have been sweet to have him in the system right now. Cole, Banuelos, Betances, Brackman. Wow!”
wow! is right.
that would have been awesome having an even bigger carrot that is always pushed off into the future.
or yet another average pitcher, yet another catcher or some guy who isn’t even in the top 100 prospects but is willing to take 6th round money for being drafted in the 1st round (like cito culver did)
–
The Yankees are going to have possibly 5 players in the top 100 next season. What are you even talking about
randy,
What are you babbling about now?
Mike,
I wouldn’t want to be Cashman if YES ratings decline the way NESN ratings did. And unlike Boston, the Yanks have to worry about attendance, especially at their prices. They couldn’t even sell out much last year coming off a WS, with this roster, especially if they get off to a mediocre start, forget about it. Cash knows more than anyone how fans jump ship easily. It will be reflected in the attendance if this roster plays .500 ball early on.
How many people here would allow 2011 to play out with the roster currently assembled if it means prolonging an excellent Yankee product (playoffs every year and overwhelming chance to win WS) for another 15 years?
I honestly don’t see another team in the AL that will challenge the Yankees for the WC after what has happened to Tampa this off-season. Does everyone realistically believe that the Red Sox will improve in every area after their injuries and down year for pitchers not named Buccholz or Lester and the Yankees will continue their regression for everyone of their players?
The Yankees have the ability to spend very little on the luxury tax and keep an excellent team for years to come with a payroll around 170m.
I think the battle for the 4th and 5th starter can be filled by some combination of Nova, Mitre, Brackman, Noesi, Phelps, free agent invite this year.
If the team takes a nosedive in the standings due to poor pitching, you can bet there will be a mass exodus of fans and lots of empty seats ala Citifield.
haha what???
Soriano accepted arbitration last year and was traded because the Braves did not expect that to happen. This would be completely different.
******************
is there a rule against the rays sigining him and then trading him to the yankees for 3 AA pitchers…..therefore cashman keeping his f’ing beloved prospects?
i’ve come up with a win /win solution to the yankees starter problems.
cashman should go with his young pitchers for the empty rotation spots and let them sink or swim .
if they work out great, the yankees will be in the playoffs at only 170 million.
if the young guys stink and the yankees don’t make the playoffs , cashman gets fired.
either way i win
seriously, cashman is on one of his stubborn fixations periods again and the yankees have a best case scenario going where they will be lucky to be middle of the pack in starting pitching.
better hope the offense scores over 900 runs.
“It will be reflected in the attendance if this roster plays .500 ball early on.”
And considering the way Tex hits in April (and CC pitches in April, but last year, he was good in April and sucked in May, either way, he is not lock down until Memorial Day hits) combined with the older players, along with Mitre/Nova/Burnett in the rotation and a spotty bullpen, that is a real possibility.
They might play better as the season goes on, but I could see this current roster having a rough start to the season as they try to figure things out.
I’m only attending games where Mitre pitched. Did the same thing for Darrell Rasner in ’08.
It kills me that for 180M, Tex cannot figure out how to get off to a better start than 1.50 into May.
mcconti agreed! they went into 09 with cc, aj, joba, injured wang and won. i think this team is good enough to win if they went into the season as they are plus a few fill-ins. they will get whatever they need from there on.
another thing…the whole season isnt riding on pettitte. you cant expect that much from him at this point and i dont blame him for (it seemed like) being a little pissed that someone rang his bell while he was in his pj’s.
id still like to see them stock up to force cervelli/montero as well as nova/mitre/whoever to earn a roster spot.
ill go to battle with what we have!
bring on the red sox!
Perhaps the NYY’s can give a discount the games Mitre starts.
“cashman should go with his young pitchers for the empty rotation spots and let them sink or swim .”
exactly what the twins did last season.
Cashman needs to go January 7th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Cashman called such a move a “legal maneuver” but also acknowledged that those sort of trades are complicated and difficult to pull off. They rarely happen in baseball.
**********************************
Oh really?…funny that soriano was acquired by the rays in the same exact manner that this f’ing dummy cashman says its complicated to do…complicated for a mental midget like cashman but if you are a GM that actually knows what you’re doing its probably not so difficult…cashman really was best suited to continue bringing coffee to the executives on the club that actually were good at their jobs…
——————
Well I think it’s more complicated since the Type A free agents available (Soriano and Grant Balfour) are both former Tampa Bay Rays and I don’t think that Tampa would be inclined to help the Yankees out.
Jerkface January 7th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
or yet another average pitcher, yet another catcher or some guy who isn’t even in the top 100 prospects but is willing to take 6th round money for being drafted in the 1st round (like cito culver did)
–
The Yankees are going to have possibly 5 players in the top 100 next season. What are you even talking about
********************
OK so the use of the word possibly means it won’t be 5 players…..and even if there were 5 at least 3 of those players will be catchers which automatically eliminates them from all being on the yankees….so realistically ( a word that most blind yankee fans don’t seem to want to face) of the possible 5 only 3 may (MAY…MAY….MAY…can i stress THAT word enough) be good enough to make the team in 5 YEARS!!!!!
soriano helps the team NOW – not in 5 years when for all we know robinson cano will be the only all star left (anyone see a mattingly comparison there – i know i do)
ac1 January 7th, 2011 at 1:51 pm
If George was still around NO CHANCE IN HELL the Yanks would only be interested in a player like Soriano if it was ABSURDLY CHEAP
__
Yeah but if George was still around, cashman wouldnt have to be cutting budget either.
++++++++++++++++++
If George were still around, he sure wouldn’t smell too good.
Cashman needs to go January 7th, 2011 at 2:38 pm
haha what???
Soriano accepted arbitration last year and was traded because the Braves did not expect that to happen. This would be completely different.
******************
is there a rule against the rays sigining him and then trading him to the yankees for 3 AA pitchers…..therefore cashman keeping his f’ing beloved prospects?
———————
No rule against it – but why would the Rays want to help out the Yankees?
Ok,
The level of angst and panic on this blog is too much even for me…
Have a great weekend folks, I’ll check back in on Monday, hopefully by then some of you will have gotten your orders of Prozac refilled.
I?m only attending games where Mitre pitched. Did the same thing for Darrell Rasner in ?08.
—————
. Yeah i got to watch the Immortal MEAT TRAY pitch too !! . .UGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Chuck,
Enjoy your Mitre games. They will be long ones so you will get your money’s worth.
Cashman needs to go January 7th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Cashman called such a move a “legal maneuver” but also acknowledged that those sort of trades are complicated and difficult to pull off. They rarely happen in baseball.
**********************************
Oh really?…funny that soriano was acquired by the rays in the same exact manner that this f’ing dummy cashman says its complicated to do…complicated for a mental midget like cashman but if you are a GM that actually knows what you’re doing its probably not so difficult…cashman really was best suited to continue bringing coffee to the executives on the club that actually were good at their jobs…
———————————————————————————————————————-
You don’t seem to be overly concerned about the actual facts, so explaining them to you does little good. We can just lump you together with the 3 California Daisies and Larry The IDIOT.
Soriano helps a team with holes now. Aren’t the Yankees about winning now? Even if it means losing a 1st rounder in which odds are they won’t shape up as valuable as Soriano.
Chip January 7th, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Cashman needs to go January 7th, 2011 at 2:38 pm
haha what???
Soriano accepted arbitration last year and was traded because the Braves did not expect that to happen. This would be completely different.
******************
is there a rule against the rays sigining him and then trading him to the yankees for 3 AA pitchers…..therefore cashman keeping his f’ing beloved prospects?
———————
No rule against it – but why would the Rays want to help out the Yankees?
******************
they get 3 players instead of 1…the yankees could throw in 5 million dollars to help pay for 30% of their 2011 payroll…..if as a GM you don’t try to be creative and just sit on your thumbs then really you’re not doing your job…then again i know frosting your wig and rappelling down buildings takes alot of time to do so i understand that brian needs to set priorities…
“exactly what the twins did last season.”
don’t embarrass the yankees by comparing them to a team that knows what it’s doing like the twins.
The only seats that don’t sell out are the Legends seats. The rest of the stadium is full, you guys are being beyond stupid if you think the Yankees are going to lose attendance for getting off to a slow start. They’ve played .500 ball through may or even the entire first half before.
Really, just silly. Wahhhh the yankees didn’t sign the players I wanted and only have a 180 million dollar payroll on january 7th, I’m not gonna go to any games
“ill go to battle with what we have!”
that’s what custer said.
Most of the seats are sold, hardly any walkup anymore..
ill go to battle with what we have!?
that?s what custer said.
———
LOL LOL LOL LOL Randy I
GreenBeret7 January 7th, 2011 at 2:55 pm
Cashman needs to go January 7th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Cashman called such a move a “legal maneuver” but also acknowledged that those sort of trades are complicated and difficult to pull off. They rarely happen in baseball.
**********************************
Oh really?…funny that soriano was acquired by the rays in the same exact manner that this f’ing dummy cashman says its complicated to do…complicated for a mental midget like cashman but if you are a GM that actually knows what you’re doing its probably not so difficult…cashman really was best suited to continue bringing coffee to the executives on the club that actually were good at their jobs…
———————————————————————————————————————-
You don’t seem to be overly concerned about the actual facts, so explaining them to you does little good. We can just lump you together with the 3 California Daisies and Larry The IDIOT.
***********************
I’m sorry, can you tell me the story again about some obscure pitcher in the 1940′s that you remember quite vividly that no on here really cares about but its the only thing you can contribute …..not counting your endless insults that obviously result from a really depressing and sad life that you and only you are responsible for …..
“Really, just silly. Wahhhh the yankees didn’t sign the players I wanted and only have a 180 million dollar payroll on january 7th, I’m not gonna go to any games”
jerkface-
so you are on record that this is a staff that will be good this year?
don’t embarrass the yankees by comparing them to a team that knows what it’s doing like the twins.
Right, the Twins haven’t won a World Series since… when? 1991? Have they even been to one since then?
Yes, lets all follow that model. Obviously they have it all figured out.
that’s what custer said.
–
Thats what Patton said.
Randy
I guess you missed the Twins getting close on an agreement with Pavano. Not sure how that fits their pitcher development strategy.
randy – “so you are on record that this is a staff that will be good this year?”
You just can’t help but put words in people’s mouths, can you?
so you are on record that this is a staff that will be good this year?
–
The yankees will be good and make the playoffs.
“The yankees will be good and make the playoffs.”
This.
It will have very little to do with the 4th and 5th starters, it never does.
Sherman says the Rays have 9 of the top 80 picks in next years draft, good lord.
remember soriano would have been an eig, not the closer. so you can talk all you want about what soirano could do as a closer for someone else but for us, right now, he’d be the eig and you’d be giving up your 1st pick plus alot of money to get him. not a smart move at all.
2004 yankees won 101 games with some of the worst pitching you will ever see from a staff combined. They were bottom half of the majors bad. By the end of this season CC will have 20 wins, Hughes will have close to it, AJ will have 12-15 wins, and the 4 and 5 starters combined will have their wins.
And all of this crying won’t matter.
Ah yes, that elusive dream, the ever-dangling carrot… of being more like the Twins.
You can’t make this stuff up.
GB7
Can I just say you did an excellent job recommending Lyerly as someone to look out for in Tampa next season.I finally looked him up on the Riverdogs site and I’m already loving him. He fits my checklist for new favorite player. He is a left handed hitter which is always enjoyable being I sit first base side. He plays 3rd base like my outgoing fave played and he has a decent OBP. Let’s just hope they give him #36 so I don’t have to change my handle.
remember soriano would have been an eig, not the closer. so you can talk all you want about what soirano could do as a closer for someone else but for us, right now, he?d be the eig and you?d be giving up your 1st pick plus alot of money to get him. not a smart move at all.
—————-
YsGuy
Please . .its not like we had a top 10 pick.. With our average pitching staff at best. . Soriano could have shorten the game . With the Yankees resources ($) and stacked farm system , To give up a first round pick for a guy like Soriano wouldn’t have been the worse move in history ! .
Copied and duly noted Jerkface.
I’m glad the yankees are taking a Twins approach and trusting the 4 and 5 spot to starts with 300 innings in the minors.
Wait! I get it!
Randy wants the Yankees to be more like the Twins, so they miss the playoffs and then hope Cashman gets fired.
Nice try randirino. I’m on to you buddy.
This blog is making me laugh big time today !! . . lol thank god . .i’ve had a long day !
Um -
Easy for Theo to say – didn’t they already pick up a couple of draft picks themselves? So after the fact, when they have no one left to get, he makes such a statement?
Yeah. Okay.
RIP Ryne Duren ! Damn, and on my twins b-day ! I will always remember him.
Doesn’t a deep draft imply quantity as much as is does quality? If so, doesn’t it suggest that potentially outstanding players can be found in rounds other than the 1st? And if that’s so, couldn’t letting your 1st rounder go in favor of a difference making (albeit, not Cliff Lee difference making) pitcher be reasonably argued for?
Irreverent Discourse January 7th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
don’t embarrass the yankees by comparing them to a team that knows what it’s doing like the twins.
Right, the Twins haven’t won a World Series since… when? 1991? Have they even been to one since then?
Yes, lets all follow that model. Obviously they have it all figured out.
********************************
I obviously don’t have to help randy out at all since he at least see’s things correctly – but its true the twins haven’t won a WS in that time but the yankees have only won 1 in 11 years and spent about 3 billion dollars more….i would think the money saved for 1 less world series kind of makes up for it….(oh by the way justin morneau was a 3rd round pick, joe nathan was a 6th round pick….see if you know what you’re doing you really don’t need a 1st round pick that often)
“2004 yankees won 101 games with some of the worst pitching you will ever see from a staff combined.”
The 2004 Yanks outperformed their pythagorean winning percentage by 76 points. Don’t count on that happening in any given season.
This is strictly an academic observation. I am not taking sides in this unseemly spat about who is to blame for how much of what.
Doreen, I’m glad you’re here because I have reached the unmistakable conclusion that Brian Cashman is not going to make a major move until you buy your car.
So, ummmm…… no pressure.
And if that’s so, couldn’t letting your 1st rounder go in favor of a difference making (albeit, not Cliff Lee difference making) pitcher be reasonably argued for?
–
The true depth of next years draft lies in the first round. You could argue for it, but I think the evidence against signing relievers to big deals + draft pick weighs heavily against.
Not to mention two rivals, one whom will go just as over slot, having 20% of the top 80 picks.
“Sherman says the Rays have 9 of the top 80 picks in next years draft, good lord.”
I think four of those picks are subject to Soriano and Balfour getting signed by someone.
If someone locks up Felipe Lopez, That’ll give Boston 6 picks in the first 80 or so. Toronto may have a handful too.
The 2004 Yanks outperformed their pythagorean winning percentage by 76 points. Don’t count on that happening in any given season.
–
Never count out the indomitable spirits of the Yankees, who through sheer force of will will outperform pythagoras himself. Unless Randy et al are trying to say that Derek Jeter is not a winner?
Wave, I’ve noticed the yankees tend to outperform the pythagoras, could that have to do with their offense and mariano rivera in the bullpen, where in they are able to eek out extra victories above and beyond what simple runs scored and runs against would suggest?
Gerrit Cole…the name just sparked my understanding of Cashman’s thinking.
Cole is coming up for eligibility again this year. How has he been doing?
From http://www.uclabruins.com/spor.....rit00.html
–
Has gone 15-12 with a 3.42 ERA in two seasons at UCLA, earning All-Pac-10 Team honors as a freshman (2009) and sophomore (2010)…has registered 257 strikeouts and 90 walks in 208.0 innings…has become the first pitcher at UCLA since Jim Parque (in 1996, 1997) to compile 100 or more strikeouts in consecutive seasons…enters the 2011 season tied with teammate Trevor Bauer for eighth place on UCLA’s career strikeouts list (257)…has limited the opposition to a .199 batting average in two seasons…pitched for the USA Baseball Collegiate National Team in the summer of 2009 and 2010 (combined 6-0 record for Team USA).
2010 (summer)
Played for the USA Baseball Collegiate National Team for the second consecutive summer…went 2-0 with a 0.72 ERA and one save in five games (four starts)…totaled 23 strikeouts and four walks in a team-leading 25.0 innings…struck out two batters and walked one in seven scoreless innings in the start for Team USA in the gold medal game of the FISU World University Baseball Championships…Team USA fell to Cuba, 4-3, in the title contest…was rated the No. 1 prospect on the USA National Team by Baseball America for the second consecutive year.
–
Doing okay but probably will be on board at Yankee’s pick…reason? He still has eligibility in college and could be a hard sign…still a Boras client.
Cole has always been a Yankee fan and only went to college on insistence of his father…but now he could sign and finish his credits in off-season…and join his life long favorite team.
So, Cashman must be holding the pick so he can once again select Cole and… once again be turned down.
“Wave, I’ve noticed the yankees tend to outperform the pythagoras, could that have to do with their offense and mariano rivera in the bullpen, where in they are able to eek out extra victories above and beyond what simple runs scored and runs against would suggest?”
Or, it’s just chance. With so few data points, who knows?
So, Cashman must be holding the pick so he can once again select Cole and… once again be turned down.
–
That would be funny. If they picked Cole again they’d have to know they can sign him. Though his stock as risen considerably I think he won’t last until our pick.
Or, it’s just chance. With so few data points, who knows?
–
I’m thinking its probably mystique. Or the power of pinstripes.
A little early for jumpers but the Yankee bandwagon was due for a market correction.
With the trade of Garza, Rays cut their payroll 50% this off season and are looking at a $35M payroll for 2011. I say MLB needs a salary floor!
“I’m thinking its probably mystique.”
We’re talking about 2004, remember. Let’s not go there.
Yogi, what do you think about the Yanks outperforming their pythagorean winning percentage?
Yogi: If you weren’t so old I would smack you.
Nick in SF -
I’ve made a decision, and I’ve put a down payment. Does that count? Or do I have to get delivery, because that might take 2-3 weeks. (It appears I have chosen a 2-of-a-kind automobile, that my dealer has to do a “swap at port” in order to get it to me before summer.)
You know, while I’d have liked Soriano, it was not at any expense. People here have mentioned his injury history, for one. And for another, relief pitchers don’t have a good track record in general, from year to year and from team to team. And he’d have to pay closer money for a guy being used 75% of the time or thereabouts as a set-up guy.
Well, I wasn’t counting on Soriano to begin with so I can’t say I’m disappointed.
Sure hope the young guys are ready….
“Doing okay but probably will be on board at Yankee’s pick…reason? He still has eligibility in college and could be a hard sign…still a Boras client.”
By most counts, Cole is Top 5 pick. Maybe Top 3.
We’re talking about 2004, remember. Let’s not go there.
–
I’m talking about always and the over performance of pythagoras. The 2009 yankees overperformed by 8 games.
I agree with Jerkface. (there’s a sentence I never thought I’d write. Not because I have any issues with him but just because his username is so wonderfully absurd.)
The Yanks will make the playoffs. Anyone care to take the other side?
Two questions:
1) How long has Brian Cashman been the GM of the Yankees?
2) How big-time producers he’s drafted in the first-round in all that time?
Cashman acts as if he knows everything, but he one of the dumbest/worst GM’s in the game. If he didn’t have the Yankees money behind him, there is no telling how horrific this franchise would be.
Wave are you trying to tell me that the Yankees do not want to win? They lack the spirit of winners? They don’t try? They don’t have mystique? Its not different in Yankee Stadium?
Randying this argument to hell right here.
Mell January 7th, 2011 at 3:26 pm
“Doing okay but probably will be on board at Yankee’s pick…reason? He still has eligibility in college and could be a hard sign…still a Boras client.”
By most counts, Cole is Top 5 pick. Maybe Top 3.
++++++++++++
By most counts, he was the best high school pitcher in the country 2 years ago, but feel to the Yankees because of signability questions and Boras. Those issues still exist. There is no guarantee he won’t stay in college if he is picked by a team he doesn’t want to play for.
Since he is a lifelong Yankee fan, he might tell scouts (like Betances did) that he will not sign with anyone except the Yankees.
Any chance the next CBA includes some sort of salary scale for draft picks? I honestly may be getting my CBA’s mixed up (I know rookie pay is going to be a thing in the next NFL CBA). But if there is a chance of some sort of draft pick salary scale being part of the next CBA, then the chances of 1st round picks heading back to school, or from high school to college, would be pretty minimal, no?
Pythagoras be damned, there will be more ? in 2011!
s/b fell not feel
Thanks for not recognizing the pi symbol, LoHud.
2) How big-time producers he’s drafted in the first-round in all that time?
–
He has only had control of the draft since the latter end of the 2000s, where the yankees decided to put back into the draft what they had not in prior years.
1st round picks
Culver, Heathcott
Bleich, Brackman – Bleich is injured, Brackman will be in the majors soon
Kennedy, Chamberlain, CJ Henry, Hughes – 3 are in the majors, 1 traded for Abreu, 1 traded for Granderson
Jeff Marquez – Before Cash had complete control, but still netted us Swisher
We’ll see how much everyone is celebrating this draft pick when the team has no 8th inning guy and no starting pitching.
Mell–
Anything is negotiable. THe picks don’t really have representation in the union, so they could be pushed aside for a better deal on something important to the active union members. Who knows?
Is it just me, or does it seem like there are a ton of people who are absolutely convinced the Yankees did the absolute right thing, no matter what decision they make.
There was a LOT of pro-Soriano talk on this blog yesterday when it looked like the Yankees were going to be players… “Hell ya! That bullpen is gonna be nasty, etc…”
Then Olney comes out and says the Yankees aren’t interested, and then Cashman says i’m not giving up the pick required to sign him… And all of a sudden, NOT signing Soriano is the ONLY way to go… Gotta have that pick in this “deep draft.”
Seems like a lot of people here who have no trouble jumping over the fence.
Any chance the next CBA includes some sort of salary scale for draft picks? I honestly may be getting my CBA’s mixed up (I know rookie pay is going to be a thing in the next NFL CBA). But if there is a chance of some sort of draft pick salary scale being part of the next CBA, then the chances of 1st round picks heading back to school, or from high school to college, would be pretty minimal, no?
–
Some will be arguing for hard draft slotting, but I’m not sure what that would do for prospects agreeing to contracts. You wouldn’t be able to sign guys who fall to overslot, increasing their chances of going back to school/wherever. You’d see less high impact guys go outside of the 1st/2nd round.
We’ll see how much everyone is celebrating this draft pick when the team has no 8th inning guy and no starting pitching.
–
Eighth inning guys are overrated. Relievers in general are. The team will win without an ‘EIG’ and the team has enough starting pitching.
They will make the playoffs, as currently constituted.
I’m ok with that as long as Cashman doesn’t burn prospects worth more than a #1 pick on a less than tremendous player under 29.
There was a LOT of pro-Soriano talk on this blog yesterday when it looked like the Yankees were going to be players… “Hell ya! That bullpen is gonna be nasty, etc…”
Then Olney comes out and says the Yankees aren’t interested, and then Cashman says i’m not giving up the pick required to sign him… And all of a sudden, NOT signing Soriano is the ONLY way to go… Gotta have that pick in this “deep draft.”
Seems like a lot of people here who have no trouble jumping over the fence.
–
You seem to confusing sides here. All the people saying this is good were the same arguing against Soriano yesterday. You’re very dumb.
YankeesNmore January 7th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
Two questions:
1) How long has Brian Cashman been the GM of the Yankees?
2) How big-time producers he’s drafted in the first-round in all that time?
*****************
He’s been GM for 13 years but he’s only had complete control for the last 6. And it’s too soon to say if someone like Brackman will develop into a big time player.
Here’s a question for you: What would you offer Soriano? Whatever you he wants? Would you have any limits? $10 mil a year? $15? Three years? Four? Let’s here your brilliant plan for world domination.
# Jerkface January 7th, 2011 at 2:18 pm
The one thing I am sad about Cash is that he doesn’t game the system like Theo did. His team obviously looks at the estimated elias rankings and he targeted a number of players that were going to be type-b’s this offseason and picked them up at the end of the year. They spent marginal time on the 40-man and now he is getting a bunch of free draft picks from these players.
The yankees 40-man might not be conducive to this type of strategy, but its a shame the Yankees never seem to get the Type-A’s or Type-B’s that a team can feel comfortable offering arbitration too. (The yankees type-a/type-b’s are generally over priced older players acquired in a salary dump / trade that would never be offered arbitration because they’d accept)
——————————————–
That’s because Theo>>>>>>>>>>>Cashman
jerkface-
I’m getting a bad aura here.
Seriously, I believe bullpen performance has a small effect on whether a team over- or under-performs its pythagorean projection, but nowhere near 76 points worth.
I believe situational hitting has a much greater effect, and I believe luck is the biggest factor affecting situational hitting, by far.
Jerk, that the first four names you mentioned are guys who have done basically NOTHING (save a mediocre half-season) above A-ball is telling.
And the trades??? Marquez didn’t “net Swisher.” He was the SECOND piece of that trade.
BOBBY ABREU??? REALLY??? He was a 100% salary dump. We could have traded YOU for Abreu!
Chamberlain has fallen off the cliff. The best name of the bunch is Hughes, and the only thing he’s PROVEN is that he can be a 3 or 4 in the major league rotation… That’s not much to show for all those years and picks.
And now we’re going to value ONE SPECIFIC PICK to be more valuable than one of the nastiest, proven relievers in the game??? Cashman is a moron. It’s been proven over and over and over again.
BoJo January 7th, 2011 at 3:20 pm
So, Cashman must be holding the pick so he can once again select Cole and… once again be turned down.
————————————————
If at first you don’t succeed…….
YankeesNmore January 7th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
+++++++++++++
I don’t give Cashman a bye on this. Like Chad said, there are ways to do a sign and trade that get around the problem.
Example–an industrious GM could go to Washington NAts (who have already given up their #1 pick) and ask them to sign and trade Soriano to the Yankees. The Nats lose their #2 pick to Rays.
In return, the Yankees send them some prospects with more value than their #2 would have. They did this with Bruney and the #1 Rule 5 Draft last year, so Washington has shown a willingness to play.
Cashman might asy it is difficult to do…sure, it would mean actually earning his pay. That would be tough!
Jerkface January 7th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
2) How big-time producers he’s drafted in the first-round in all that time?
–
He has only had control of the draft since the latter end of the 2000s, where the yankees decided to put back into the draft what they had not in prior years.
1st round picks
Culver, Heathcott
Bleich, Brackman – Bleich is injured, Brackman will be in the majors soon
Kennedy, Chamberlain, CJ Henry, Hughes – 3 are in the majors, 1 traded for Abreu, 1 traded for Granderson
Jeff Marquez – Before Cash had complete control, but still netted us Swisher
**************
so what you are saying that ONE…just ONE…. maybe..has amounted to anything.1 in what 11 – 12 years…..and the jury is still out on hughes depending on how he does this year….
So before the deadline last year Cashman was willing to give up Montero for Soria to be a set-up man, but he’s not willing to give up a first round pick for Soriano?
I’m not necessarily advocating the signing of soriano, but this front office really makes no sense sometimes. They (Cashman) is wildly inconsistent.
I mean, whether Soria is worth more than Soriano or not, Montero is surely worth more than a first-round pick at this point.
QUOTING ML: “Let’s here your brilliant plan for world domination.”
———————————————————————————-
Let’s HERE… Brilliant, indeed.
Nevertheless, three years, $25-30 million total sounds about right… And the Yankees would have the benefit of a backup plan at closer for the next two years if Rivera wakes up at 41 or 42 and isn’t Rivera anymore.
Jerk, that the first four names you mentioned are guys who have done basically NOTHING (save a mediocre half-season) above A-ball is telling.
And the trades??? Marquez didn’t “net Swisher.” He was the SECOND piece of that trade.
BOBBY ABREU??? REALLY??? He was a 100% salary dump. We could have traded YOU for Abreu!
–
Uh yea dude, the first 4 players are still in the minors. Thats what happens when you’re looking at a draft 1 year after it happens. What do you expect?
And Yea Marquez did net Swisher, he was in the trade. Thats all that matters. He turned Marquez into Swisher. And hell yea Abreu, you have to have pieces people want even in a salary dump. That guy was turned into Abreu.
You can’t say they weren’t, because obviously they were.
I love how every move we dont make is a good one suddenly…..despite the crowing over soriano for 3 days….now doing nothing is smart yet again.
oh, and now the bridge to the closer is meaningless. comical
I don’t know if this is a good or bad thing…..I see both sides of the Soriano or no Soriano debate. To me there isnt a clear right answer here as there are advantages and disadvantages on both sides.
EXACTLY RIGHT, Cashman Needs To Go!
Beat you to the punch, but exactly right!
so what you are saying that ONE…just ONE…. maybe..has amounted to anything.1 in what 11 – 12 years…..and the jury is still out on hughes depending on how he does this year….
–
Jury is still out on Brackman, Bleich, Cito, and Heathcott. Kennedy, Joba, and Hughes are all performing admirably in the majors. Kennedy was used to get us a great centerfielder. Marquez got us an all-star RFer who is dependable.
I’d say for first round stuff thats pretty good. You don’t wanna see some other teams drafts.
And by the way, everybody stop it with the sign-and-trade possibility.
Anybody REALLY think Tampa is going to facilitate a Soriano-to-the-Yankees deal? Certainly not for LESS than the value of the Yankees first pick.
Carlo January 7th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
We’ll see how much everyone is celebrating this draft pick when the team has no 8th inning guy and no starting pitching.
***************
You can already say that when montero (and to an extent joba) was prospect hugged and not offered for halladay 2 years ago…..now everyone is saying that montero won’t even be on the team in april and maybe he’ll be ready in july (when it may be too late) – having halladay on the team last year and all of this year would have made a HUGE difference though…but since the yankees are the new royals at least we’ll see montero hitting 50 homeruns on an 81 -81 team in 2014 …afterall thats what everyone wanted to see 2 years ago….
Blake-
Forget dentistry.
You have a future as a politician, or a diplomat.
Carlo January 7th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
I love how every move we dont make is a good one suddenly…..despite the crowing over soriano for 3 days….now doing nothing is smart yet again.
oh, and now the bridge to the closer is meaningless. comical
——————————————————————————————-
EXACTLY right!
Yesterday, Soriano was a brilliant idea… Today??? How could ANYBODY seriously consider giving up a first-round pick for this guy???
Ridiculous.
And what I don’t understand is why some of you even follow the Yankees. You don’t seem to like anything about them. You don’t like the players they have; you don’t like the players they target; you don’t like the moves they make; you don’t like the moves they don’t make.
They’ve been wildly successful as a franchise for over a decade – missed the playoffs only one time.
And yet the attitude among some of you (and at times like this you all seem to dominate the conversation) is like this is some scrub team that’s lucky it gets to play in the same league with the Twins, the Red Sox, the Rays, etc. About the only team it seems some people think is worse is the Mets.
Question for all you Cashman haters: Who do you want as the GM? Who do you think would take this job? it is the toughest GM job in all of baseball.
Soriano is not a good fit in Yankee Stadium.
# Cashman needs to go January 7th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Cashman called such a move a “legal maneuver” but also acknowledged that those sort of trades are complicated and difficult to pull off. They rarely happen in baseball.
**********************************
Oh really?…funny that soriano was acquired by the rays in the same exact manner that this f’ing dummy cashman says its complicated to do…complicated for a mental midget like cashman but if you are a GM that actually knows what you’re doing its probably not so difficult…cashman really was best suited to continue bringing coffee to the executives on the club that actually were good at their jobs…
——————————————————-
FAIL!!!
YankeesNmore January 7th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
++++++++++++
Rays have no role in a sign and trade. Read my example from earlier
I bet Scott Downs ends up being a better signing than Soriano.
# Dill Pickler January 7th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
So before the deadline last year Cashman was willing to give up Montero for Soria to be a set-up man, but he’s not willing to give up a first round pick for Soriano?
I’m not necessarily advocating the signing of soriano, but this front office really makes no sense sometimes. They (Cashman) is wildly inconsistent.
I mean, whether Soria is worth more than Soriano or not, Montero is surely worth more than a first-round pick at this point.
———————————–
Well according to a post on TYU the whole Soria for Montero thing is not as black and white as it seems.
“esterday, Soriano was a brilliant idea… Today??? How could ANYBODY seriously consider giving up a first-round pick for this guy???”
I’m getting older and my memory isn’t always what it used to be, but I seem to recall a lot of comments yesterday objecting to giving up a first round pick for Soriano.
Since likely no one here has researched who is likely to still be on the board by the 31st pick, this whole crossfire about the subject seems extremely hypothetical at best.
MTU,
I am diplomatic but I don’t know if I lie enough, I’ll have to work on that to have a shot…
Ridiculous, Jerkface.
Cashman has been the GM of this team for more than a DECADE, and the ONLY thing of substance you have to defend his first-round picks is Phil Hughes.
As CNTG said, one guy… 12 years or so, and you got ONE GUY.
Against All Odds — can you elaborate?
LGY,
link?
Since likely no one here has researched who is likely to still be on the board by the 31st pick, this whole crossfire about the subject seems extremely hypothetical at best.
–
Crossfire, you’ll get up in the… CROSSFIRE!
# Jerkface January 7th, 2011 at 3:44 pm
so what you are saying that ONE…just ONE…. maybe..has amounted to anything.1 in what 11 – 12 years…..and the jury is still out on hughes depending on how he does this year….
–
Jury is still out on Brackman, Bleich, Cito, and Heathcott. Kennedy, Joba, and Hughes are all performing admirably in the majors. Kennedy was used to get us a great centerfielder. Marquez got us an all-star RFer who is dependable.
I’d say for first round stuff thats pretty good. You don’t wanna see some other teams drafts.
——————————————————————–
I wouldn’t say Joba is performing admirably based on how he has performed recently.
“Crossfire, you’ll get up in the… CROSSFIRE!”
That thing was awesome…..
Blake-
It’s easy.
Each day when you wake up you just stand in front of a mirror and practice talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Before too long it will as natural as putting on your pants.
Cashman has been the GM of this team for more than a DECADE, and the ONLY thing of substance you have to defend his first-round picks is Phil Hughes.
–
I’ve named more than 1 guy. Kennedy, Marquez, Joba, Hughes, CJ Henry have all contributed to the Yankee cause.
I think the Yankees do need a DH (as long as he can play a little OF) because you can’t necessarily count on Posada.
Why is it that the extreme Cashman haters all come across as sounding so emotionally unhinged and downright stupid?
I’m grandfathering randy from that question since he is so addled in a grandfatherly way.
Do any of you remember last year when Joba practically single-handedly blew at least 4 games in the 8th inning? My god, when he was off, he was horrible. I remember those games…hit after hit after hit.
I wouldn’t say Joba is performing admirably based on how he has performed recently.
–
Outside of some blowups, Joba was fine last year. 73% of his outings were scoreless. He was really bad in 8 of his outings. The other 12 he gave up 1 run.
Blake
To what?
“Why is it that the extreme Cashman haters all come across as sounding so emotionally unhinged and downright stupid?”
Because they are largely people who want the Yankees to spend as much as possible, and spending a ton of money (even if it’s at the owners’ direction) is really the only reasonable basis for criticizing Cashman.
Jerkface January 7th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
Eighth inning guys are overrated. Relievers in general are. The team will win without an ‘EIG’ and the team has enough starting pitching.
*****************
Thanks for that. I just KNEW that Mariano – Wettelend thing in 1996 was my imagination.
so what you are saying that ONE…just ONE…. maybe..has amounted to anything.1 in what 11 – 12 years…..and the jury is still out on hughes depending on how he does this year….
________________________
Why do you keep saying 11 years when you’ve already been told multiple times that Cashman didn’t have control then? You can’t judge him based on someone else’s performance.
I don’t think signing Soriano would necessarily be a bad idea, but to act like Cashman is crazy for factoring the value of the pick into his thinking is shortsighted.
YNM–
You have your facts slightly wrong. Cashman was GM in name for more than a decade, but it was only until he renegotiated his contract with GMS in the winter of 2005 that he took over player development and drafting. His first class was summer of 2006.
I could site numerous articles about this–so it is not opinion…it is fact. I’m too lazy to do the legwork but look it up on Googel yourself.
So, if you want to bash his drafting, start from class of 06, not prior.
Thanks for that. I just KNEW that Mariano – Wettelend thing in 1996 was my imagination.
–
Soriano is going to throw 107 innings now?
LGY,
why Soriano is a bad match for YS? I was just messing with ya.
or Google if Googel is down.
@Dill Pickler
http://www.theyankeeu.com/2010.....osal-20064
Together, Soriano and Mariano might throw the same amount of innings as Mariano did in 96.
Blake
Ha my bad.
Soriano is an extreme fly ball pitcher
BoJo January 7th, 2011 at 3:59 pm
YNM–
You have your facts slightly wrong. Cashman was GM in name for more than a decade, but it was only until he renegotiated his contract with GMS in the winter of 2005 that he took over player development and drafting. His first class was summer of 2006.
********************
Even though thats a pile of dung IMO..but if i grant you that then you can’t take credit for cashman tarding cj henry for abreu since he was drafted in 2005
Wetteland and Mo threw 170 innings combined in 96. Thats basically another starter.
# Jerkface January 7th, 2011 at 3:56 pm
I wouldn’t say Joba is performing admirably based on how he has performed recently.
–
Outside of some blowups, Joba was fine last year. 73% of his outings were scoreless. He was really bad in 8 of his outings. The other 12 he gave up 1 run.
——————————————————————-
I hear that but I still wouldn’t say his performance was admirable. There were games last yr when it was a mess
but if i grant you that then you can’t take credit for cashman tarding cj henry for abreu since he was drafted in 2005
–
Cashman was smart to get rid of the Steinbrenner drafted CJ Henry for all-star Bobby Abreu. What a great GM he is.
YankeesNmore January 7th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
QUOTING ML: “Let’s here your brilliant plan for world domination.”
———————————————————————————-
Let’s HERE… Brilliant, indeed.
*******************************
Congrats, YankeesNmore, you caught my minor typo.
I don’t agree with going three years for an EIG, but I’ll give you some credit for putting some specifics out there instead of just ranting like other Cashman critics.
Well if Soriano really is off the board, is Rauch worth looking in to. He was pretty good last year but his track record is somewhat of a mixed bag…..he is really tall though which would further contribute to their move towards the tallest pitching staff.
Doreen – my advice is to skip over the sub-geniuses. Why get worked up over them? It isn’t worth the agita. Just look for those who posts indicate actual understanding of issues. Forget the rest.
I wouldn’t be against signing Rauch
Can we order a Ivan Nova Yankee jersey yet?
just for comparison
epstein just traded for arguably a top 5 (maybe 3) 1st baseman in baseball..
he traded:
casey kelly – #1 pick in 2008 (30 overall)
anthony rizzo – #6 pick in 2007
Reymond fuentes – #1 pick in 2009
eric patterson – fodder
so in essence he traded casey kelly and reymond fuentes (whoever HE is) for adrian gonzalez
what did the yankees do in those years draftwise?
2008 #1 pick – gerrit cole
2009 #1 pick – slade heathcott (got him because they didn’t sign cole)…
and just for the heck of it richard weems was drafted #6 in 2007 by the yankees AND casey kelly was picked AFTER gerrit cole…
so please don’t tell me that cashman has had good drafts since he’s been given complete control – he’s failed at that as well…
*****************
“he is really tall though which would further contribute to their move towards the tallest pitching staff.”
6″11″, 290 lbs, hard-throwin’ country boy. Rauch has got to be on Cashman’s short list at this point.
# West Coast Yankee Fan January 7th, 2011 at 3:59 pm
Jerkface January 7th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
Eighth inning guys are overrated. Relievers in general are. The team will win without an ‘EIG’ and the team has enough starting pitching.
*****************
Thanks for that. I just KNEW that Mariano – Wettelend thing in 1996 was my imagination.
————
Yeah, never mind that was ONE season. One.
It’s not like the Yanks didn’t go on to win 4 more rings and six more pennants from 1997 to 2009 without such a 1-2 punch.
Do you even bother raising points that make any sense?
Bring back Krazy Kyle!
Wave,
What you think Rauch is asking for money and years wise?
tyanksfan36 January 7th, 2011 at 3:11 pm
GB7
Can I just say you did an excellent job recommending Lyerly as someone to look out for in Tampa next season.I finally looked him up on the Riverdogs site and I’m already loving him. He fits my checklist for new favorite player. He is a left handed hitter which is always enjoyable being I sit first base side. He plays 3rd base like my outgoing fave played and he has a decent OBP. Let’s just hope they give him #36 so I don’t have to change my handle.
———————————————————————————————————————-
TY,
You’re very welcome. You’ll really enjoy watching him hitting. He needs a lot of work on defense at third and first, so, a corner outfield change is possible. He has the speed and a good arm…not great, but good. The power will come around, I think and he’s a nice kid. Just don’t go to see him and get him side tracked.
Who is Richard Weems?
Isn’t it a fair question to ask whether any of the players still available is going to assuredly do any better than what the Yankees might be able to draw from within at lesser cost?
I really shy away from relief pitchers in trade or on the FA market. They’re not a particularly reliable sort. Mariano is so far and away in a class by himself in this regard.
I don’t think it would have been a mistake to get Soriano for the right price, but I don’t necessarily think it will hurt them NOT to have him. Whether or not it cost them a draft pick.
My feeling on draft picks, especially for the Yankees, who do not get the obvious best players even in a deep draft, is it’s no sure thing; but, does a team really want to forfeit their #1 draft pick when they’re already compromised in the draft, and have already lost picks? If Vazquez hadn’t agreed to decline arbitration, they’d have lost another.
All the situations have lots of gray area. Nothing is as black and white, nor are the specifics quite as clear, as some here would have one think.
Who is Richard Weems?
Who do you want the Yankees to trade Betances and Heathcott for?
jimcallisBA
Re #Yankees and Soriano: Major upgrade for bullpen & possible Rivera successor. Can give up 1st-rder and pay 1st-rd $ to later pick. about 2 hours ago via HootSuite
GF. Can your garbage. I responded to Jerface’s inane post that eighth inning guys are overrated as are relievers in general.
Sure they are. Want to take a shot how many World Championships we would have without Mariano?
Do you even bother raising points that make any sense?
Joe from Long Island -
Good advice. Sometimes I’m successful at following it; sometimes something catches my eye; sometimes there’s just so much of it it’s tough to avoid (like today). It’s okay. I’m calm, just somewhat bewildered.
WYH-
I sure hope the Yankees don’t have to pay Rauch by the inch or the lb.
Last I heard, Rauch wants big money (relatively speaking). That could be why he is still available.
Something about the way that guy looks bothers me so I wouldn’t mind not getting him. Yes, I know it’s irrational.
“GF. Can your garbage. I responded to Jerface’s inane post that eighth inning guys are overrated as are relievers in general.
Sure they are. Want to take a shot how many World Championships we would have without Mariano?”
———————-
Are you trying to use, the greatest outlier of all time when it comes to relief pitchers, to prove a point about relievers in general?
# Jerkface January 7th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
Who is Richard Weems?
Who do you want the Yankees to trade Betances and Heathcott for?
——————————————————————–
Did you reply to the wrong person?
“Relievers in general” would pretty much exclude Mariano – he is not included in the “general” relief category. He is an elite closer.
Against All Odds January 7th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
Who is Richard Weems?
*********************
one of the awesome draft choices that cashman has made since given complete autonomy of the draft…oh and by more comparison – richard weems was traded for jerry hairston 2 years ago….while anthony rizzo gets traded for adrian gonzalez (going by the curve grading that says cj henry was traded to get bobby abreu and jeff marquez was traded to get nick swisher)
blake,
I haven’t seen anything so I’m just guessing. 2/8?
Blake-
I wouldn’t think Rauch would command any more than say a Scott Downs.
Maybe less.
No idea how many years needed.
JMTC.
2/8 sounds good….
# Cashman needs to go January 7th, 2011 at 4:22 pm
Against All Odds January 7th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
Who is Richard Weems?
*********************
one of the awesome draft choices that cashman has made since given complete autonomy of the draft…oh and by more comparison – richard weems was traded for jerry hairston 2 years ago….while anthony rizzo gets traded for adrian gonzalez (going by the curve grading that says cj henry was traded to get bobby abreu and jeff marquez was traded to get nick swisher)
———————————–
Thanks for clearing that up. I’ve never seen so many ppl be upset with Cashman. And I’m not saying you don’t have a right to be but boy he is definitely in the cross hairs this off season.
What Cashman should have said:
“I will not lose our first round draft pick on a free agent, instead I will use it to choose a player that is sure to give my colleagues and rival GM’s a hearty laugh.”
He means Chase Weems (real name Richard, I am guessing???)
Did you reply to the wrong person?
–
No I asked the same question
Chase Weems, thats who he is talking about. Drafted in the 6th round.
“The sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling ………”
Is there a rolls eyes icon on this board somewhere?
Doreen-
You aked a very good question earlier about wether our guys can fill the needs as well as some outsiders.
IMO they can in some cases but not in all.
If Cashman decides that he is going with AJ and 2 rookies in the rotation IMO he must strengthen the BP.
To do that he will need a very strong EIG and maybe more.
If he tries to backfill the both the rotation and the BP from within I
believe he is courting real disaster.
That’s my take.
“Question for all you Cashman haters: Who do you want as the GM? Who do you think would take this job?”
doreen-
there are thousands of people ( why not women?)who could do the job.
a bad gm can screw things up , but there’s a limit to what a good one can do which is why the highest paid ones don’t get more than a good utility infielder.
look at friedman in tampa bay. this is what he did before his first baseball job ever which was the gm of the rays :
“Friedman was then an analyst with Bear Stearns from 1999–2002, and then was an associate at MidMark Capital, a private equity firm, from 2002-04.”
there must be 10,000 friedman’s out there. he just happened to be friends with strenberg the rays owner.
seriously, people overestimate the cult if cashman.
i was a yankee fan for 45 years before he showed up and i’ll be a yankee fan long after he’s gone.
he’s done ok with the offense, but he really doesn’t get pitching which is why the yankees are almost always among the leaders in hitting and in the middle of the pack in pitching.
this year will be no different except the yankees will have to overachieve to get to the middle of the pack in pitching.
blake January 7th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
Wave,
What you think Rauch is asking for money and years wise?
———————————————————————————————————————-
The standard seems to be set at 3 years for $15 mil. Can’t see Rauch being any different. He made $2.9 last year.
And the Yankees probably still win world series without Mariano. Plenty of other teams have.
Mariano is the greatest relief pitcher of all time. It is nearly impossible to keep having ERAs as low as he does, due to the volatile nature of reliever ERA. It means he really does just not give up runs. He has only given up more than 17 runs in any season 5 times and only once did that come in the last 4 years. And one of them was 96 where he threw 100 innings.
Gerritt Cole projects to be a top 5 pick next draft. He may be the top pitcher on the board and has an outside shot of going #1 if Rendon has an off season.
He could fall to the 30′s but that’s very unlikely as that’s been happening less and less in the draft. Cole may have the best arm in this entire draft. Unless he’s hurt or has a very poor season he’s unlikely to fall that far.
It’s been often speculated that the yankees outperform their Pythagorean record due to Mariano and his impact on leveraged situations. Don’t know how true it is but it makes sense. I also think their in context hitting and “circular line up” helps due to synergy. But again, that’s just speculation as far as I know.
Never can have high hope for a guy named Weems.
# Jerkface January 7th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
Did you reply to the wrong person?
–
No I asked the same question
Chase Weems, thats who he is talking about. Drafted in the 6th round.
———————————–
Oh ok sorry about that
“And what I don’t understand is why some of you even follow the Yankees. You don’t seem to like anything about them. You don’t like the players they have; you don’t like the players they target; you don’t like the moves they make; you don’t like the moves they don’t make.”
Doreen,
I wonder the same thing myself. Lots of yankee fans seem to take a limited amount of joy from the team and the game. To each their own, but it can be very puzzling and at times disconcerting.
Got it from the official yankee website – his name is richard (chase may be his middle name – or what he does when overwhelmed at the plate)
New York Yankees 2007 Draft Selections
listing of the New York Yankees’s 2007 draft picks
Name B/T Ht Wt DOB Round Pos Signed
Andrew W. Brackman R/R 6’11″ 1985-12-04 1 RHP 08/15/2007
Austin A. Romine R/R 6’01″ 195 1988-11-22 2 C 08/15/2007
Ryan J. Pope R/R 6’03″ 190 1986-05-21 3 RHP 06/29/2007
Bradley K. Suttle S/R 6’02″ 215 1986-01-24 4 3B 08/15/2007
Adam Olbrychowski R/R 6’02″ 180 1986-09-07 5 RHP 6/20/2007
Richard C. Weems L/R 6’02″ 170 1989-01-17 6 C 08/15/2007
Don’t be so sure we can’t fill our BP internally. Does Aceves, Joba, Robertson ring a bell? & Hughes in his short stint while we were winning a World Series… Going out and getting an “established” reliever is not all it is cracked up to be b/c relievers are so variable anyway. Not that I am against filling in from without, but you really don’t know what you are going to get from year to year. See Broxton et al.
randy l. January 7th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
but he really doesn’t get pitching which is why the yankees are almost always among the leaders in hitting and in the middle of the pack in pitching.
——————————
That’s the issue when it comes to pitching he has a difficult time judging it. It could be a FA or a prospect and Cashman comes up short in that department.
I’d love to see this list of 1st round picks that other teams have been streaming into the majors while the Yankee’s havent been.
Oh wait, you mean every team calls up 1st rounders at the same rate as the Yankees unless they finish in the bottom 10 5 years in a row? WEIRD.
Fem-
That’s not strong enough IMO with the risks in the rotation I proposed, and who knows if AA will make it back.
The BP will be toast by the ASB.
More experience necessary.
Wish Daniel Norris would fall to the Yanks….doubt that.
“a bad gm can screw things up , but there’s a limit to what a good one can do which is why the highest paid ones don’t get more than a good utility infielder.”
“Baseball people, and that includes myself, are slow to change and accept new ideas. I remember that it took years to persuade them to put numbers on uniforms.”
-Branch Rickey
“It’s been often speculated that the yankees outperform their Pythagorean record due to Mariano and his impact on leveraged situations.”
You really can’t draw any conclusions just from Mariano. I believe there have been various regression studies showing some positive correlation between bullpens with top relievers and over-performance of pythagorean winning percentage, but I don’t recall anything dramatic.
Situational hitting simply has to swamp other factors. That’s seat-of-the-pants theorizing, I haven’t researched it.
Talking about somebody doesn’t characterize a level of interest in any guy,” Cashman said. “And obviously this winter we’ve done a lot of talking.
______________________________________________________________________
That’s all they have done
“We’re going to show up in Tampa, and we’re going to have a team that we’re proud of,” Cashman said.
Sounds arrogant to me, the pressure has gotten to this guy, he only knows how to respond this way now.
“I wonder the same thing myself. Lots of yankee fans seem to take a limited amount of joy from the team and the game. To each their own, but it can be very puzzling and at times disconcerting.”
——————–
Started to think those got more enjoyment out of failure and complaining late last season when many were proclaiming the Yankees won’t make the playoffs and if they do will be one or done. Even in the playoffs when the Yankees went down early in game 1 vs the Twins. This winter has been more of the same except worse from many of the usual suspects.
When you think about it, it’s a pretty easy road to take. Complain everyday and when things go right say “I’m so happy, because I am a huge Yankee fan!” and when things go wrong like they “predicted,” say “I told you so!”
It is a no lose proposition.
I agree with Cashman, keep the draft pick. BTW Ryne Duren R.I.P at age 81.
Sounds arrogant to me, the pressure has gotten to this guy, he only knows how to respond this way now.
–
Being proud of returning 95% of a 95 win team is arrogant?
Wave-
I’m not saying I agree with it. I’m just saying people have proposed that. It’s not something that your likely going to be able to confirm or reject just from data.
And I agree with you – in context hitting would likely swamp that issue just due to scope.
While the Yankees may have “needs,” I really do think a hitter like Thome would have more impact on this team than a reliever, RH OF, or utility guy.
Guys, obviously Cashman would be a better GM if he panicked and overpaid for players this off-season. These same people certainly wouldn’t be complaining about Cashman overpaying these same players.
Not at all.
Yeah sure. They are all overrated.
Mariano Rivera, Dennis Eckersley, Hoyt Wilhelm, Goose Gossage, Rollie Fingers, Bruce Sutter, Dan Quisenberry, Lee Smith, Trevor Hoffman, Jeff Reardon, Tug McGraw, Sparky Lyle, Mike Marshall, John Wetteland, Kent Tekulve, John Franco, Troy Percival, etc.
Doreen-
My theory is that a comment board has a natural bias towards negative comments. It doesn’t mean that people who tend to post more negative comments are negative fans, just that for them dissatisfaction is a greater motivation to post than satisfaction.
95% of 95 is only 90.25. Will that be enough?
Come back, Andy!
randy l. January 7th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
“Question for all you Cashman haters: Who do you want as the GM? Who do you think would take this job?”
***************************
who do you think WOULDN’T take his job would be a much shorter list
I don’t think cashman is any smarter or dumber than 25 out of the 30 gm’s out there…what upsets me about him is he has about 50 – 75 more million dollars available to him than EVERY other GM – and yet he still insists on showing everyone just how smart and shrewd he is by NOT using that money to his advantage..
if i’m a race car owner with more money than anyone else i’m racing with and am ALLOWED to use that money to get the best car in the world – then why am i messing around trying to find a bargain hyundai in some dump of a side alley car dealership just to prove to everyone how smart i think i am……
anyone can do the job he’s done given the amount of money he has at his disposable compared to everyone else…oh and he’s just about the worst talent evaluator (he said so himself) and can’t make a good trade if his life depended on it…this is not the type of GM that should be running the greatest team in the history of sports..
# LGY January 7th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
“GF. Can your garbage. I responded to Jerface’s inane post that eighth inning guys are overrated as are relievers in general.
Sure they are. Want to take a shot how many World Championships we would have without Mariano?”
———————-
Are you trying to use, the greatest outlier of all time when it comes to relief pitchers, to prove a point about relievers in general?
————-
Yeah, that was going to be my point as well but you beat me to it.
Mo one of the few exceptions to the rule.
I guess WCYF just wants to whine about something else. Everyday he’s whining about Hal, Cashman, or Pettitte so it’s time to whine about something else.
Being proud of returning 95% of a 95 win team is arrogant?
_______________________________________________________________
What I really meant was the comment about the number one pick. Puting up a roadblock against getting an established player who can help you everyday as opposed to a player you don’t even know yet and would be years off is to me is just nonsence. First we had all the nonsense of the Joba rules and the Hughes rules now we have the Cashman rules. We don’t go after a player because we have to give up a future draft pick, stupid.
randy l -
I’m not a Yankee fan because of Brian Cashman. As you say, when he’s gone, I’ll still be a fan.
I don’t think he’s an extraordinary GM – I don’t know if one exists – but I would say given the very particular nature of being a GM for the iconic NY Yankees, a job that pretty much defines “hot seat,” it’s not a job everyone would want and I bet it’s a job some would actively avoid.
I suppose someone outside of baseball could bedazzle the Steinbrenners and find themselves on that hot seat.
But what I want to know is, realistically speaking, and from the general pool that GMs are found, who might make a better GM than Cashman?
I don’t think he’s going to re-up at the end of his next contract.
I think it would be interesting to speculate who “the people” would prefer – not that “the people” have any say in the matter. And what makes a good GM, and particularly a good GM of the NY Yankees? Someone with strong scouting skills? Business/bargaining skills? A good politician (mainly for handling the media)? A good delegator? And how do find all these things? Do you want someone who’s been in the game a long time in some capacity? Or a business school wunderkind?
And yes, I agree that it’s not necessarily a man’s job. Didn’t the Yankees have a terrific woman who went elsewhere – she’s very respected, but I can’t recall her name. I believe she was of Asian descent, though I could be wrong.
MTU January 7th, 2011 at 4:34 pm
Fem-
That’s not strong enough IMO with the risks in the rotation I proposed, and who knows if AA will make it back.
The BP will be toast by the ASB.
More experience necessary.
_______
Depth is more important than experience. As for AA, I am not saying he will make it back, I am pointing out that as a no-name coming up, he had no experience and did pretty darn well. Ditto a ton of other guys, like Joba in ’07, Price in ’08 for Rays, etc. My point is that you never know who will be healthy, experienced or not. I love Benoit and Soriano’s stuff, but both have had injuries. How many experienced relievers have we been saddled with who we pitch any way in spite of their “tired” arms. I would rather have a live inexperienced arm, as long as he can locate. In sum, relief is a crapshoot, baby!
The days of whine and rojas…and throwin a little pi (pythagorean) AJ
Top 10 ERA from Qualified Relievers 2009
1. Hughes
2. Sherril
3. Affeldt
4. Mo
5. Hoffman
6. Bailey
7. O’Day
8. Papelbon
9. Franklin
10. Calero
Top 10 ERA from Qualified Relievers 2010
1. Kuo
2. Benoit
3. Wagner
4. Bailey
5. Perez
6. Soriano
7. Mike Adams
8. Soria
9. Mo
10. Brian Wilson
Mo and Bailey the only two to show up on both lists.
If you don’t think there are legitimate criticisms to be made when it comes to evaluating Hal, Cashman, or Pettitte, that’s your right. But it doesn’t make you right.
“Why is it that the extreme Cashman haters all come across as sounding so emotionally unhinged and downright stupid?
I’m grandfathering randy from that question since he is so addled in a grandfatherly way.”
nick in sf-
now that’s just not right after you making all that money from 2008 on when i turned you on to livan and then you started betting on him.
speaking about 2008, what i remember is taking on the blog about hughes and kennedy and all those who were very pro cashman were eating their “youthful” words when fall came. i would have thought you guys would have learned last time when cashman tried to wing it with pitching.
on a serious note, has the time come with revenue sharing that even a team like the yankees has to accept a down year once in a while to retool. the yankees won in 2009 after missing in 2008. the red sox won in 2007 after missing on 2006.
the yankees could increase their probability for winning next year if they did go with their young pitchers this year.
serious question
Doreen-
I like Buck Schowalter as a future Yankees GM.
He can be abraisive but he knows his baseball inside out.
Top to bottom.
I think he could build an excellent team.
Just my 2 cents.
““I will not lose our first round draft pick on a free agent, instead I will use it to choose a player that is sure to give my colleagues and rival GM’s a hearty laugh.””
I realize that you probably inhabit a parallel fan universe, but in a world where facts matter, the Yankees have a very highly ranked farm system.
“yankees has to accept a down year once in a while to retool. the yankees won in 2009 after missing in 2008. the red sox won in 2007 after missing on 2006.
the yankees could increase their probability for winning next year if they did go with their young pitchers this year.”
randy
That decision is made on the ownership level.
One of my favorite things about Branch Rickey. He was a horrible catcher as a professional and played briefly in the bigs.
He does however still hold the record for most stolen bases allowed in a game.
13.
That’s a lot stolen bases.
I always liked that story because it made me wonder if that may have been part of why Ricky had such faith in Roy Campanella. It may be apocryphal, but I’ve read in places where Rickey used to talk about Campanella already being the best catcher in baseball before he’d even played a single professional game.
# West Coast Yankee Fan January 7th, 2011 at 4:48 pm
If you don’t think there are legitimate criticisms to be made when it comes to evaluating Hal, Cashman, or Pettitte, that’s your right. But it doesn’t make you right.
————
It’s one thing to have legitimate criticisms about said names and quite another to whine, piss, and moan about it every single day in this forum.
Doreen-
If you want existing GM’s I like what O’Dowd has done with the Rockies and Daniels has done with the Rangers.
I also like dave Dombrowski of the Tigers.
Yeah sure. They are all overrated.
Mariano Rivera, Dennis Eckersley, Hoyt Wilhelm, Goose Gossage, Rollie Fingers, Bruce Sutter, Dan Quisenberry, Lee Smith, Trevor Hoffman, Jeff Reardon, Tug McGraw, Sparky Lyle, Mike Marshall, John Wetteland, Kent Tekulve, John Franco, Troy Percival, etc.
–
You seem to have this fascination with names and people in positions of power. So yea I’d say most of those players are overrated. Trevor Hoffman? How did he do in the World Series?
Outside of Mariano, and some of the older guys that threw more than 100 innings in a season, those players are overrated. Wetteland? Really? Troy Percival?
You can find reason to be critical of almost anyone. Since Hal/Hank took over the Yankees have won a WS and have strengthened their farm system to the point that its being discussed as a possibly being in the top 10. I think the Yankees have a long term plan and the farm system is just now getting to the point where it can be a part of that plan…..I think it’ll be more fair to judge how they are doing things a couple years from now. They have had to build the system up to implement their plan of spending on elite talent in free agency and filling the rest from within…..its not there yet but its getting close.
Being the Yankee GM would be like being the Yankee manager. You get no credit for anything good and all of the blame for it going bad. How many times do we read or hear. Anybody can be a yankee GM when all they have to do is write a check?” “Anybody can manage the Yankees. Just fill out the line-up card and push a button.? I’ve seen both of those things said for more than 50 years. And it was said for at least another 25 years before that.
Expanding the list to 20
2009
11. Belisario
12. Nathan
13. Hawkins
14. Cordero
15. Soria
16. Valverde
17. Mijares
18. Guerrier
19. Masset
20. Mike Gonzalez
2010
11. Bell
12. Bard
13. Venters
14. Casilla
15. Peralta
16. O’Day
17. Takashi
18. Meek
19. Sean Burnett
20. Hensley
O’Day and Soria are the only ones you can add to the list.
CB January 7th, 2011 at 4:29 pm
++++++++++++++
ll it takes for Cole to fall to 31 is for him to once again put the word out thathe intends to play his final year at UCLA. He’ll drop like a rock.
He had put out the word prior to 2008, but Oppenheimer thought he would aloow the Yankees to make an offer. The family didn’t even want to listen.
That kind of behavior will convince other teams not to waste a choice. Betances did essentially the same thing. Said he was going to college unless the Yankess drafted him…I believe he feel to the 6th round.
yankeefeminista
Depth is more important than experience. As for AA, I am not saying he will make it back, I am pointing out that as a no-name coming up, he had no experience and did pretty darn well. Ditto a ton of other guys, like Joba in ’07, Price in ’08 for Rays, etc. My point is that you never know who will be healthy, experienced or not. I love Benoit and Soriano’s stuff, but both have had injuries. How many experienced relievers have we been saddled with who we pitch any way in spite of their “tired” arms. I would rather have a live inexperienced arm, as long as he can locate. In sum, relief is a crapshoot, baby!
//////
Yankfem – I agree with you.a live arm is the way to go,exp is secondary when it comes to middle and even setup relief.The arms don’t have to worry about dancing thru a lineup,where exp would be necessary.they can rear back and throw, the livelier the better.that’s why relief is such an attractive dropoff point for a guy who maybe doesn’t have that 3rd pitch ready for primetime yet.ABRACK is a good example,I think,of someone who could really run with that EI role later on,as we’ve discussed a couple times here.
/////
Cashman needs to go -
I think he is not “allowed” as you put it to use an unlimited amount of money to get whatever they want. That’s part of it. They have put a working budget in place and his job is to stay around that budget number. It’s not unlimited funds. The Yankees put far more money back into their franchise than many clubs do. And they are punished (luxury tax, revenue sharing) for being a well-run franchise and for over-paying players.
I don’t think it’s a problem if he isn’t a good talent evaluator as long as he himself recognizes this, and as long as he hires people who are good talent evaluators. Not sure who is doing that for the Yankees these days. Also, if he hires good scouts. Good international evaluators, too. I admit I don’t know enough about these people to say whether he hires the best or not. To me that’s where they should spend the money – that’s money (salary and investing in the international market an scouting and coaching, etc.) that’s not included in the luxury tax and where it could be used to give the Yankees an advantage that isn’t automatically taken away.
You also cannot discount the inherent difficulty there is in making trades. Teams do not want to help the Yankees. Teams want to use the Yankees for leverage. If a team makes a trade with the Yankees, generally speaking, they are going to require a little more than they would from another team – they’re going to make it hurt. I don’t know the answer to that. Perhaps building up the farm with enough desirable players? But also, you need to spend money on their development.
I am under the impression that that is one of the areas that Cashman has been working to improve – all those areas where they can spend money without penalty, but those results would be slow in coming and not as obvious to see the results. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt for now. It’s a sea change from what was being done not that long ago. But as I said, I wonder if one could even find out about this very easily?
Stepping back what was the value in the comments Brian made today? Did it accomplish anything, I don’t think so.
Betances did essentially the same thing. Said he was going to college unless the Yankess drafted him…I believe he feel to the 6th round.
///
That’s my boy.he’s like a son to me, really
.
Doreen January 7th, 2011 at 4:46 pm
I think it would be interesting to speculate who “the people” would prefer – not that “the people” have any say in the matter. And what makes a good GM, and particularly a good GM of the NY Yankees? Someone with strong scouting skills? Business/bargaining skills? A good politician (mainly for handling the media)? A good delegator? And how do find all these things? Do you want someone who’s been in the game a long time in some capacity? Or a business school wunderkind
+++++++++++++
I want someone good at hypnosis and money-laundering so we can finally acquire Felix and Josh Johnson and Soria…in exchange for Pena in a 4-way deal.
Doreen, you’re thinking of Kim Ng. She left the Yankees – I think she had te title of Assistant GM – and took a similar position with the Dodgers. I think she was one of the finalists for the Seattle job, before Jack Z. got it. I believe she is very well respected within the industry, but I don’t know her background and how she got into the baseball biz.
15% of Cashman’s budget in A-Rod is a contract that seems to have been negotiated and signed above his head.
Probably Jeter’s contract as well or at least a portion of it.
“We’re going to show up in Tampa, and we’re going to have a team that we’re proud of,” Cashman said.
_________________________________________________________________________
I’ve heard this comment before from the coach of the football team who has lost their start player and now facing a certain loss gives the stiff upper lip speech.
Ng got started as an assistant to Reinsdorff with the White Sox and was the first woman involved in presenting an arbitration case.
Gary-
Well those comments certainly seem to fired up some in the fan base.
That’s for sure.
Wow, just wow
some of you guys make Ruby Tuesday look like a pom pom waver.
How does anyone really know what Cashman is doing behind the scenes?
Does anyone really think the team as presently constucted will be the team at the beginning of the season, or the end of the season?
# Gary January 7th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
Stepping back what was the value in the comments Brian made today? Did it accomplish anything, I don’t think so.
================================
Message to Boras:
Take your demands elsewhere.
?From 2004 to 2005, Friedman served as the Director of Baseball Development for the Rays.
Friedman was promoted to his current position after the 2005 season, at the age of 28, replacing the club’s first General Manager, Chuck LaMar, who was fired following the club’s 8th losing season in its 8 years in existence.” – wikipedia
oops, i made a mistake. friedman spent two years as director of player development after spending a lifetime outside pro baseball.
how hard is that job too? no experience necessary.
seriously, i would be happy even if jerkface were named the new yankee gm.
he wouldn’t do any worse , and plus he’d have to give me a job showing him where the baseball field was .
Stepping back what was the value in the comments Brian made today? Did it accomplish anything, I don’t think so.
–
The question was asked, so he answered it. It establishes his bargaining position on Soriano, they won’t give up a 1st round pick for him. If Soriano wants to be a yankee, Boras will explore another route to get him on the team.
It also shows that the Yankees won’t be making rash decisions.
Joe from Long Island -
Yes! Kim Ng. Now I recall. Is she still in LA?
Funny how in baseball (and I guess in every walk of life) people’s names are out there, and then, not.
edit: “seem to have”
“How does anyone really know what Cashman is doing behind the scenes?”
but you see to think you know he’s doing something.
MTU
I didn’t find them helpful, probably more helpless. I did 100′s of high levelk negotiations and we never took anything off the table. Like I said before who cares about a dam draft pick when your trying to win today.
If Soriano wants to be a yankee, Boras will explore another route to get him on the team.
================================
Sign and trade seems unlikely.
Why not have some fun and expand the list to 35
2009:
21: Saito
22: Frasor
23. Chan Ho Park
24. Aardsma
25. Rhodes
26. Sanches
27. Broxton
28. Wuertz
29. Clippard
30. Bell
31. McDonald
32. Tronosco
33. Betancourt
34. Thornton
35. Wilson
2010:
21. Romo
22. K-Rod
23. Motto
24. Sanches
25. McClellan
26. Balfour
27. Rhodes
28. Lopez
29. Capps
30. Oliver
31. Axford
32. Madson
33. Marmol
34. Downs
35. Marshall
Doreen, she’s still with the Dodgers as Assistant GM. Was in the running for the GM job in San Diego and Seattle. Just looked it up and she also handled all waiver claims and approval of trade for the AL.
MTU -
Thanks for answering. I’m not familiar with the Rockies’ GM at all. I know the other two – obviously Daniels got a lot of airtime with the Cliff Lee stuff, and Dombrowski for the last couple of years.
Showalter’s an interesting choice, I think.
“’m talking about always and the over performance of pythagoras. The 2009 yankees overperformed by 8 games.”
maybe it was the other way around and pythagoras under performed by 9 games.
GB7 -
Thanks.
Has there ever been a female GM?
If you want to debate Cashman’s and Oppenheimer’s draft record, at least do it with the facts.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....ft-review/
Class of 2006
1st Round: Ian Kennedy, RHP, Southern California
1S. Joba Chamberlain, RHP, Nebraska
2. None
3. Zach McAllister, RHP, Illinois HS
4x – Colin Curtis, OF, Arizona State
5x – George Kontos
8x – Dellin Betances, RHP, New York HS
9x – Mark Melancon, RHP, Arizona
13x – Daniel McCutchen
17x – David Robertson, RHP, Alabama
2007
1st Round: Andrew Brackman, RHP, North Carolina State
2. Austin Romine, C, California HS
3. Ryan Pope, RHP, Savannah College of Art/Design
4x – Brad Suttle, 3B, Texas
Brandon Laird (27th round)
Drew Storen (34th round), who went 10th overall to the Nationals in ’09.
Outfielder Eric Thames (39th round) went to the Jays in ’08 and has flashed hitting skills to put himself in the Top 10
2008
1st Round: Gerrit Cole, RHP, California HS (Did not sign)
1S. Jeremy Bleich, LHP, Stanford
2. Scott Bittle, RHP, Mississippi (Did not sign)
3. David Adams, 2B, Virginia
6x – Brett Marshall, RHP, Texas HS
7x – Kyle Higashioka, C, California HS
9x – Michael O’Brien, RHP, Virginia HS
10x – D.J. Mitchell, RHP, Clemson
2009
1st Round: Slade Heathcott, OF, Texas HS
2. J.R. Murphy, C, Florida HS
3. None
4. Adam Warren
5x – Caleb Cotham, RHP, Vanderbilt
12x – Brett Gerritse, RHP, California HS
14x – Graham Stoneburner, RHP, Clemson
16x – Bryan Mitchell, RHP, North Carolina
44x – Evan DeLuca, LHP, New Jersey HS
“I would have for Cliff Lee. I won’t lose our No. 1 draft pick for anyone else.”
If I was a player not named Cliff Lee, I’d find that statement rather demeaning and arrogant.
maybe it was the other way around? maybe you don’t know what you are talking about.
Andrew Friedman had no real baseball experience of substance himself in terms of playing or spending time in baseball management before he joined the Rays.
And the Rays have by far the best drafting and player development organization in baseball. They are phenomenal at acquiring and developing young talent.
And it’s not primarily because they were getting high picks.
Consider their 2010 rotation. On top of that they arguably had the best right handed and the best left handed pitching prospect in baseball in their system.
Gabe Paul never played the game professionally. I don’t think he played at the collage level.
He broke into professional baseball with the Cincinnati Reds as their traveling secretary.
Gabe Paul did ok for himself.
Ng is the woman that Bill Singer, special GM assistant for the Mets, made remarks about her ethnic background that got him fired by the Mets back in ’03.
YanksRule – 500 other pitchers deal with the fact that they are not as good as Cliff Lee every day. Somehow I dont think Cashmans statement swayed their opinion of themselves.
Gary-
That’s Cashman’s idea of telling it like it is.
Apparently Cashman cares an awful lot about those draft picks.
He is operating differently these days.
More focus on value and budget.
More limits.
That’s my take.
Gary-
And more focus on the Farm.
“If I was a player not named Cliff Lee, I’d find that statement rather demeaning and arrogant.”
Hardly. Every other player worth a #1 pick did not fill a need for the Yankees.
Doreen January 7th, 2011 at 4:56 pm
Cashman needs to go -
You also cannot discount the inherent difficulty there is in making trades. Teams do not want to help the Yankees. Teams want to use the Yankees for leverage. If a team makes a trade with the Yankees, generally speaking, they are going to require a little more than they would from another team – they’re going to make it hurt. I don’t know the answer to that. Perhaps building up the farm with enough desirable players? But also, you need to spend money on their development.
****************
Doreen – although I understand all you worte and respect your POV (but not in agreement with everything you did write) i did want to comment on the paragraph you wrote above…..
using the yankees as leverage can work both ways if our GM was smart enough to actually do that…for example…cashman can agree with a GM of another club beforehand for that GM to throw in the yankees and brian cashman as a possible trade partner when he is trying to deal with other teams so that he can get the best possible offer…knowing full well that cashman really is not interested in making a trade (thats the leverage the other team gets from using the yankee name) in return when cashman actually wants to make a trade with that same GM he then gets the guarantee that that GM won’t be looking to “make it hurt” as much as he would previously…if the GM doesn’t agree to the deal than cashman will let him know that he can’t use the yankees and cashman as leverage..how can he do that? by telling everyone that the yankees are not interested in player XXX no matter what GM YYY says..therefore literally taking GM YYY’s leverage away from him….
if GM’s are going to “make it hurt” for the yankees and no one else – then its only fair that cashman grow a pair and turn it right back at them….THATS what i’m looking for in a GM…one that won’t take any BS from these other loser GM’s…i want the goddamn (sorry for the word) John Wayne of GM’s running my bleepin team…not some pocket protector nerd of a GM that has to frost his wig to look cool….
just my humble opinion…
“We’re going to show up in Tampa, and we’re going to have a team that we’re proud of,”
I hope so!
Doreen, there’s never bee, a female GM in any major league sport. Other than a couple of ofemale owners, she’s probably had more power than any woman in baseball over the years. Not counting Jamie McCourt, of course.
Andrew Friedman had no real baseball experience of substance himself in terms of playing or spending time in baseball management before he joined the Rays..
precisely why i said 10,000 people could take over as the yankee gm and do a good job.
Wave Your Hat January 7th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Doreen-
My theory is that a comment board has a natural bias towards negative comments. It doesn’t mean that people who tend to post more negative comments are negative fans, just that for them dissatisfaction is a greater motivation to post than satisfaction.
++++++++++++++
Sort of like a “wailing wall?” Voice/type your displeasure on a discussion board rather than paying a shrink?
You might have something.
It seems indisputable that the odds of the Yankees low first round pick will be as good as Soriano are very high. Baseball drafts picks are mostly guesswork. So many with tools don’t make it. Neither do most with stats. How many of the Yankee first round picks are as good? Not many.
“precisely why i said 10,000 people could take over as the yankee gm and do a good job.”
It’s difficult to know how to put a number on it. But sure there are probably a number of people who could do the job well.
The thing is – the yankee owners seem to feel that they already have one of those 10,000 already running the team proficiently already.
And I understand that you vehemently disagree with that premise.
BoJo January 7th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
Wave Your Hat January 7th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Doreen-
My theory is that a comment board has a natural bias towards negative comments. It doesn’t mean that people who tend to post more negative comments are negative fans, just that for them dissatisfaction is a greater motivation to post than satisfaction.
++++++++++++++
Sort of like a “wailing wall?” Voice/type your displeasure on a discussion board rather than paying a shrink?
You might have something.
///
well, problem solving is kind of at the root of most sports discussion & debate.if there’s no lack,or perceived lack,there’s nothing to try & fix with ideas and counter ideas.didn’t David Byrne once say that heaven is a place where nothing ever happens?
“Doesn’t a deep draft imply quantity as much as is does quality?”
—————————————————————————————
Not to an idiot like Brian Cashman… “deep” means I HAVE to keep my first pick to have a chance to get somebody good.
I would he hesitant to draft Cole if it was my call. He turned down $5 million previously. He will require much more or use the love of college leverage. That could cause him to slip. Cashman has probably had enough second tries(Vasquez and Johnson, e.g.) to ever draft him again. It would be too personally risky.
The way I look at Soriano and the 1st round pick–if you put Soriano on the board, where would he be selected? He immediately joins the team as a potential lock down EIG and part-time closer, and becomes closer in 3 years. Then he lasts perhaps 2 more years in the role.
Where would such a player go? Top 10? Top 5? Top 30? I think 12th.
austinmac January 7th, 2011 at 5:39 pm
I would he hesitant to draft Cole if it was my call. He turned down $5 million previously. He will require much more or use the love of college leverage. That could cause him to slip. Cashman has probably had enough second tries(Vasquez and Johnson, e.g.) to ever draft him again. It would be too personally risky
++++++++++++++
True…could be risky….but consider this.
This year will be Cole and Bopras’s BEST chance to get the top deal…as they still have leverage to go back to school for senior year. After that, he has less leverage unless he wants to risk playing in independent leagues.
Cole also has the clout (with such leverage) to tell every other team he will not sign except for his favorite team (Yankees).
Thus, if Cole really wants to play for the Yankees and get the best deal possible, he should come out in 2011…and if he agrees up front with Yankees to come out, I would take him
Jerkface January 7th, 2011 at 4:52 pm
So yea I’d say most of those players are overrated. Trevor Hoffman?
****************
601 Saves. Dope.
Cashman: “obviously this winter we’ve done a lot of talking.”
…and not alot of doing…3rd place here we come!
“Two extremely important moves were made with Molloy’s blessing in 1992: trading outfielder Roberto Kelly for Paul O’Neill in November and signing starting pitcher Jimmy Key in December. But the most important thing Molloy did while in charge of the Yankees? He green-lighted the signing of a young shortstop named Derek Jeter.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn.....ortCat=mlb
is there a better example than joe molloy that the people who run the yankees don’t have to be rocket scientists?
molloy ran the team from 1990 through 1997 and resigned. he wasn’t fired. can anyone say he did a bad job?
an argument could be made that he’s had far more positive impact on the yankees than brian cashman ever has.
it’s time for cashman to get out of the way and let someone new bring in some fresh ideas.
he’s been there way too long.
“The thing is – the yankee owners seem to feel that they already have one of those 10,000 already running the team proficiently already.”
cb-
how will they feel if he fails to make the playoffs two out of four years?
cashman kept his job last time they failed to make the playoffs by spending about 400 million in free agent money and winning it all in 2009.
the problem with that is a major part of 85 million of it is already dead wood. the over reaction the following winter when they don’t make the playoffs is the high price that is paid for not making a playoffs . it could happen again this next offseason unless the yankees make a clear decision about what they are going to do with starting pitching for 2011.
the way the twins beat the yankees last year in pitching ( spending only 13 million dollars) was they let some of their young guys take their lumps at the mlb level a few years back. if the yankees are really going to develop young pitching they may have to take the chance and stick to the young guys even if the guys throw up 6 eras for the summer.
the yankees in 2011 could try to win the wildcard with offense and sabathia and rivera as bookends of the staff. it’s possible the yankees could pull it off.
what i don’t want to see is scrambling all year because of a bad, indecisive plan going in and then having little development for the future as happened in 2008 only to be rescued with 400 million in free agent spending in the winter of 2012.
quite frankly i don’t cashman has the strength of leadership to stay the course with the mess he’s gotten himself into this time.
Not to an idiot like Brian Cashman… “deep” means I HAVE to keep my first pick to have a chance to get somebody good.
—————————————————————
You’ve been repeating that scurrilous potty mouthed drivel ad nauseum. About the level of a shoe lace academy graduate. Not to offend anyone.
A little bit of creativity would be heartening.
For example I could call you “a putrid postule on a pismire’s anal orifice” but I’m too polite to do that.