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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


On second thought

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 07, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Any discussion of the Yankees chasing Rafael Soriano might be premature. Buster Olney says the Yankees are only interested in Soriano if he becomes “absurdly cheap.” They’re not willing to overspend on a setup man.

That’s generally been Brian Cashman’s approach for three or four years. The Yankees themselves have made mistakes by overspending on setup men in the past, and the past three years they’ve proven that role that can be addressed midseason if necessary.

As for the will they, won’t they surrounding Soriano, this is the difficulty of following and covering the Yankees this offseason: Since Cliff Lee came off the board, no clear target has emerged. The Yankees have been connected to several players because Cashman has been in touch with several players, but there’s no reason to believe they’re aggressively chasing any of these names.

Cashman will keep his finger on the pulse of the free agent market — and there’s little doubt he’ll make another move or two at some point — but the only free agent who perfectly fits the Yankees needs is the guy who can’t decide whether he wants to play.

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160 Responses to “On second thought”

  1. Chuck January 7th, 2011 at 10:45 am

    Kyle Farnsworth.

  2. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 10:46 am

    less than a week left on pavano, i wonder how high the bidding will go, cashman’s still got a chance…

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Carl-Pavan…..5641e7dd00

  3. Chuck58 January 7th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    Ya know, Other Chuck, I’ve always wondered why Krazy didn’t pick up the cutter from Mo…

    [From other thread - Kate, YOU were the one who envisioned Idle sans pajamas ;-)
    I merely put the words together! hahaha]

  4. Chuck January 7th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    “less than a week left on pavano, i wonder how high the bidding will go, cashman’s still got a chance…”

    Signing up to be a comedian anytime soon?

  5. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 10:49 am

    or this one:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Carl-Pavan.....587d941f7b

  6. West Coast Yankee Fan January 7th, 2011 at 10:50 am

    I’ll keep saying it, welcome to the Hal Era. Where joy and glee at cutting payroll trumps all and 2 billion dollars isn’t enough.

  7. Chip January 7th, 2011 at 10:53 am

    I agree with the theory that Chad’s laying out – that the Yankees have made so many mistakes giving set up men big money that they may not want to do it again.

    But I also think it’s a little silly to compare Soriano to Kyle Farnsworth, Steve Karsay and Paul Quantrill.

  8. randy l. January 7th, 2011 at 10:53 am

    So cashman has to overpay by tens of millions for a 8th inning guy because he didn’t develop joba properly. interesting.

    i can see it now:

    one of the three starters the yankees do have goes down for two months in may. joba who hasn’t thrown more than 39 pitches in two years is stretched out in 3 weeks going from 28 pitches to 118 in 4 starts.

    when joba blows out his shoulder for good in august, jerkface will proclaim he had thrown in the bullpen to up his pitch count on the week he went from 28 -81 pitches , and that under no circumstances was there anything wrong with how joba was stretched out and that billingsley and kershaw didn’t throw hardly any innings at triple a either.

    *the washington nationals then in the off season sign joba chamberlain after the yankees non tender him.

  9. 108 stitches January 7th, 2011 at 10:55 am

    Tim Kurkjian is reliable in what he speaks. Does his homework.
    Buston Olney relies on speculation and rumors. Sort of leans on Gammons.

  10. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 10:55 am

    wcyf, cutting payroll? when did hal EVER cut the payroll. do you even read the crap you type?

  11. Tom in N.J. January 7th, 2011 at 10:55 am

    http://joeposnanski.si.com/201.....l-of-fame/

  12. yanks61 January 7th, 2011 at 10:56 am

    3. yank61 – from last thread – it sounds like you’ve got a lot of experience with many different cars, from many manufacturers. It drives home the point, that everyone’s experience can be so different, depending on the unknowns of each vehicle.

    I currently drive a ’97 A4, now with 178k miles on it, and it’s time to look around. That’s why I’ve been following Doreen’s quest so closely. I like the AWD in the northeast. Like the saying goes, not to go offroad, but to stay on it. In my line of work, I have to be able to drive in all sorts of weather.

    ———————————————————

    Joe in Long Island, I completely understand, having lived in the New York area until the age of forty! Winter weather in northern France is usually pretty mild, but now I kind of regret not having bought the AWD version of the A4.

    I never drove outside France on business trips. Always flew or, preferably, took the train and then taxied around whatever town I happened to be in. I did get some good tips on cars from taxi drivers I got to know.

    One guy in Amsterdam, with whom I was pretty good friends (he was my steady driver whenever I visited), drove a new Mercedes. He said his first Mercedes diesel lasted him a million kilometres and all he ever did was the usual service. I don’t think they make them like that anymore!

  13. Chuck January 7th, 2011 at 10:56 am

    Need more Chuck’s to post in this thread.

  14. Chip January 7th, 2011 at 10:56 am

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 7th, 2011 at 10:50 am
    I’ll keep saying it, welcome to the Hal Era. Where joy and glee at cutting payroll trumps all and 2 billion dollars isn’t enough.

    —————

    This isn’t about being cheap – the Yankees were obviously willing to spend money or else they wouldn’t have made the offer to Lee. This is about wanting to spend money on the right players rather than spending it for the sake of spending it.

    Cashman’s made some dumb calls on relief pitchers – I think he’s maybe a little gunshy about making another. I also think that he doesn’t trust Boras when he says that Soriano would sign with the Yankees and doesn’t want to be used to drive up the price for someone else.

  15. upstate kate January 7th, 2011 at 10:57 am

    Chuck58
    this blog has lead to some disturbing images today…Pavano w/o pjs…chipmunks roasting on an open fire…

  16. GreenBeret7 January 7th, 2011 at 10:57 am

    This was the weakest free agent season in at least 20 years. Other than Lee, Pettitte and possibly Soriano, who out there would have provided what the Yankees need? Nobody.

  17. West Coast Yankee Fan January 7th, 2011 at 10:57 am

    No the Yankees need an eighth inning guy because Joba has proven that he isn’t that guy. That’s why he wound up as a middle reliever and they had to go get Kerry Wood.

  18. Chip January 7th, 2011 at 10:58 am

    randy l. January 7th, 2011 at 10:53 am
    So cashman has to overpay by tens of millions for a 8th inning guy because he didn’t develop joba properly. interesting.

    —————————————–

    Actually what Cashman is saying is “I’m not going to overpay by tens of millions for an EIG because I believe in Joba Chamberlain.”

  19. Chip January 7th, 2011 at 10:59 am

    GreenBeret7 January 7th, 2011 at 10:57 am
    This was the weakest free agent season in at least 20 years. Other than Lee, Pettitte and possibly Soriano, who out there would have provided what the Yankees need? Nobody.

    ——————-

    Frankly I would pass on Soriano and spend the same money to sign both Rauch and Fuentes

  20. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 10:59 am

    but seriously,how could that guy be asking $45 for a pavaon (trenton thunder) bobblehead?

  21. Erin January 7th, 2011 at 10:59 am

    upstate kate January 7th, 2011 at 10:57 am
    Chuck58
    this blog has lead to some disturbing images today?Pavano w/o pjs?chipmunks roasting on an open fire?

    ********************************

    Very disturbing. Especially the first one. :lol:

  22. whoisthedogg January 7th, 2011 at 10:59 am

    WCYF – What are you talking about… they were going to give 22 mil a year to Lee. He declined. So, WHO out there do you want them to get… spend big money on. They arent cutting payroll for the sake of cutting payroll. They are looking to spend money wisely.

    Who cares that the Red Sox spent all that money. They spent wisely on one guy (AGon) and very foolishly on another (Crawford). Yes they are going to be better next year. So what. Why would have been better if they just stood pat and got healthy. Remember their pitching staff is in just as bad a shape as the Yankees… with just as many question marks.

    Outside of Lester (equals CC) and Clay (equals) Hughes… they have a ton of ????????

    I think we still match up well with them… especially if Andy comes back.

    Did you ever think that Hal decided that once Lee was off the board that maybe, just maybe… what was left out there was no better than what is in the system? In that case why spend money on something you can get cheaper at home?

    So what that Boston won he off-season…. You still have to play on the feild…

    I say this… “COME GET SOME BOSTON”… They had to catch us… not the other way around.

  23. Chip January 7th, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Randy -

    Also in your rant you forgot to point out that it is obviously Cashman’s fault that Joba showed up last year fat and out of shape and didn’t seem to take any pride in his work as he slowly got moved to less and less important roles.

    Obviously that’s poor development by the Yankees for not forcing Joba to give a hoot about his job.

  24. Chuck58 January 7th, 2011 at 11:03 am

    Well, we could combine the two disturbing images, I suppose, and have the pajama-less pavano roasting chipmunks over C4…. hahaha! I am going to need therapy after that one.

  25. GreenBeret7 January 7th, 2011 at 11:03 am

    Here you go Kate. Just for you.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

  26. YankeesNmore January 7th, 2011 at 11:04 am

    How can Cashman simultaneously “keep his finger on the pulse” of market while sleeping with both hands shoved up his @$$?

  27. randy l. January 7th, 2011 at 11:05 am

    “Obviously that’s poor development by the Yankees for not forcing Joba to give a hoot about his job.”

    i keep getting you confused with “skip” .

    i guess that’s because i usually skip your posts.

  28. West Coast Yankee Fan January 7th, 2011 at 11:05 am

    I disagree Chip. Hal sent the first message when he nixed Cashman’s deal for Mike Cameron a few years back; it was only $5 million, I might not be remembering that right.

    Lee was a calculated Levine-Trost business investment as an anticipated slam-dunk post-season and world series pays a huge return right away.

    I think it is all perceived now as RIO. Hope I am wrong but it seems that way.

  29. LGY January 7th, 2011 at 11:06 am

    Good news :D

  30. Chuck January 7th, 2011 at 11:07 am

    Fuentes would scare me, even if we need BP help. This guy always seemed to collapse against good offenses. In fact, I looked forward to seeing him pitch when the Yankees were against him.

  31. West Coast Yankee Fan January 7th, 2011 at 11:08 am

    whoisthedogg January 7th, 2011 at 10:59 am

    WCYF – What are you talking about… they were going to give 22 mil a year to Lee. He declined. So, WHO out there do you want them to get… spend big money on. They arent cutting payroll for the sake of cutting payroll. They are looking to spend money wisely.

    ************

    I responded as to why I believe what I do. I also don’t agree that the Crawford signing was anything else but an excellent move. Just like we did with Sabathia, Teixeira and A-Rod, you play to win for the next four-five years and deal with what happens then. You don’t sit on the sidelines.

  32. Wave Your Hat January 7th, 2011 at 11:08 am

    So no Soriano I guess.

    In the pen for sure: Mo, Joba, Robertson, Feliciano, Logan

    Possible Starters/Long guys (choose 4): Nova, Mitre, Brackman, Phelps (Mitchell/Noesi/Igawa).

    Hmmm.

  33. GreenBeret7 January 7th, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Mike Cameron wasn’t a $10 mil a year player 2 years ago and certainly not worth the money + Cabrera and more.

  34. Chip January 7th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    randy l. January 7th, 2011 at 11:05 am
    “Obviously that’s poor development by the Yankees for not forcing Joba to give a hoot about his job.”

    i keep getting you confused with “skip” .

    i guess that’s because i usually skip your posts.

    ———————–

    Classy as always

  35. Erin January 7th, 2011 at 11:11 am

    Chuck58 January 7th, 2011 at 11:03 am
    Well, we could combine the two disturbing images, I suppose, and have the pajama-less pavano roasting chipmunks over C4?. hahaha! I am going to need therapy after that one.

    *****************************
    Now that is disturbing. ;)

  36. West Coast Yankee Fan January 7th, 2011 at 11:11 am

    sic ROI

  37. Wave Your Hat January 7th, 2011 at 11:11 am

    “Classy as always”

    Says the fellow who started his reply to Randy with “Also in your rant”.

  38. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    as far as fat toads go, i’d still take irabu over joba…

  39. LGY January 7th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    I bet Fuentes signs in Tampa on a one year deal.

    Probably wants to market himself that he is still a legit closer.

  40. West Coast Yankee Fan January 7th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    GreenBeret7 January 7th, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Mike Cameron wasn’t a $10 mil a year player 2 years ago and certainly not worth the money + Cabrera and more.

    *************

    The point in the context of my post was that the baseball guy in charge, Cashman, wanted to do that deal. The money guy Hal, said no.

  41. upstate kate January 7th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    thanks GB…sounds like a Christmas treat my terrier would enjoy!

  42. Tom in N.J. January 7th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    I’m looking forward to next year. I don’t know why, but the fact that it looks like the Yankees are going with the kids has me pumped for next year.

  43. randy l. January 7th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    cashman better get some starting pitching soon or else yankee fans will be roasting his chestnuts by an open fire.

  44. YankeesNmore January 7th, 2011 at 11:13 am

    There is NO WAY, based on what’s been seen to date, that anyone can say “Buchholz equals Hughes.”

    They pitch in the same division, and Buccholz’s ERA was nearly TWO RUNS LOWER than Hughes’.

  45. ac1 January 7th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    How can Cashman simultaneously “keep his finger on the pulse” of market while sleeping with both hands shoved up his @$$?

    _

    Hal is in charge. He has already limited Cashman on a couple deals.

  46. GreenBeret7 January 7th, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Wave Your Hat January 7th, 2011 at 11:08 am
    So no Soriano I guess.

    In the pen for sure: Mo, Joba, Robertson, Feliciano, Logan

    Possible Starters/Long guys (choose 4): Nova, Mitre, Brackman, Phelps (Mitchell/Noesi/Igawa).

    Hmmm.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Mitchell could be a decent swingman. He is a severe groundball pitcher, but he can get a few strikeouts, to. Phelps is a groundball type with pretty decent strikeout pitches, too. My guess is that if they sign a couple of low cost fill-ins until the end of may and then bring the kids up. NYY just needs 10 wins from each of the #4 and #5 spots and they’ll be alright.

  47. LGY January 7th, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Soriano is not as good as advertised last season.

    Not worth it to the Yankees for big money and years and draft pick.

  48. West Coast Yankee Fan January 7th, 2011 at 11:17 am

    ac1 January 7th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    Hal is in charge. He has already limited Cashman on a couple deals.

    **************

    THat is my belief too. Which means baseball decisions are being made ultimately not by a baseball person but by a suit that knows next to nothing. Cashman is bad enough evaluating talent, Hal is a joke.

    It does not take long for the mighty to fall.

  49. mick January 7th, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Please end this misery. The Pettitte watch is excruciating.
    Is a 39 year old pitcher with, maybe, 1 year left, the key to our season?
    Sounds like a bandaid to me.
    What do we do if he goes down at mid season again?
    It seems our problem is deeper than that.

  50. LGY January 7th, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Not only did I not want Soriano, but the extra bonus is watching some on here continue to self combust this winter.

  51. Wave Your Hat January 7th, 2011 at 11:20 am

    GB7-

    I’m not opposed to giving the kids a chance. But when you list the current candidates for the four open spots on the staff it is a little disconcerting.

    Although I’m no fan of adding a Garcia/Millwood/Francis/Penny either.

  52. West Coast Yankee Fan January 7th, 2011 at 11:21 am

    Well LGY we can keep saying no to every player that is available, too expensive, not good enough, and then it will be time to play ball and we will have no eighth inning guy, no good right hand hitting fourth outfielder and no good hitting infielder who can play third and short and spell A-Rod and Jeter.

  53. Chip January 7th, 2011 at 11:21 am

    Wave Your Hat January 7th, 2011 at 11:11 am
    “Classy as always”

    Says the fellow who started his reply to Randy with “Also in your rant”.

    ——————

    Nothing wrong with ranting.

  54. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 11:21 am

    i have no problem with and of the non-signs so far. thank god we didnt get lee to sign that ridiculous contract offer, wood wasnt coming back and ill have to see what soriano signs for but im sure its going to be a crazy amount for a closer.

  55. mick January 7th, 2011 at 11:22 am

    Get Soriano on the roster.
    1 or 2 years are fine.

  56. 108 stitches January 7th, 2011 at 11:22 am

    YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 11:12 am
    as far as fat toads go, i’d still take irabu over joba…

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    If George Steinbrenner had been in good health in recent years, he might have referred to Joba as Fat Toad 11.
    Who knows ? Maybe Joba went to the API in Phoenix wearing a Brian Bruney mask with intentions of fooling everybody in 38 days.

  57. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    *sorry crazy amount for an eig.*

  58. LGY January 7th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    $422 million including a record setting pitching contract in the winter of 2008.
    $5 million at the 2010 trade deadline
    $161 million offer to the best free agent on the market essentially matching previous record setting pitching contract

    OMG!!!!! The Hal Era!!!! Cheap is thy name! :mad:

  59. YankeesNmore January 7th, 2011 at 11:24 am

    “Hal is in charge. He has already limited Cashman on a couple deals.”
    ——————————————-
    Completely false. Cashman has full control of baseball operations, and more money to spend than any other GM in baseball history.

  60. GreenBeret7 January 7th, 2011 at 11:25 am

    back in 2007, NYYs went to the post season by patching the two back slots with minor leaguers and castoffs. That group pulled out 25 wins.

  61. randy l. January 7th, 2011 at 11:25 am

    ‘Says the fellow who started his reply to Randy with “Also in your rant”. ‘

    WYH-

    you tell him. you’ve seen me rant and that was no rant.

    by the way, i’ve decided that for me even saying cashman’s name is getting painful to the blog so to be a gentler kinder resident contrarian, i’ve decide to substitute a new name for him. from now on i’m just calling him “Polytetrafluoroethylene” or “polly” for short.

    right now , polly want a pitcher.

  62. Chip January 7th, 2011 at 11:25 am

    I think those who had Carlos Zambrano on their wishlist can cross him off.

    According to MLBTraderumors the Cubs are “working feverishly to acquire Matt Garza from the Rays” and a trade is very close.

    You don’t bring in Garza if you’re dealing Zambrano.

  63. LGY January 7th, 2011 at 11:27 am

    “Well LGY we can keep saying no to every player that is available, too expensive, not good enough, and then it will be time to play ball and we will have no eighth inning guy, no good right hand hitting fourth outfielder and no good hitting infielder who can play third and short and spell A-Rod and Jeter.”

    ———————————

    Actually I’m just cool with saying no to Crawford, Werth, and Soriano instead of giving them absurdly stupid contracts.

  64. mick January 7th, 2011 at 11:27 am

    You don’t bring in Garza if you’re dealing Zambrano.
    ===================================
    Please tell…

  65. Chip January 7th, 2011 at 11:28 am

    I do find it amusing that Cashman/Hal can spend nearly 100 million this winter – adding to a team that already had the highest payroll in the game – and still be called cheap.

  66. West Coast Yankee Fan January 7th, 2011 at 11:29 am

    LGY – you are using the word cheap, not me. That’s not a business term. As I theorized, the Sabathia, Teixeira signings were necessary from a business standpoint as the team was in real danger of not being competitive. They had to do that and it was a strategic move as well as an investment IMO. It resulted in a full slate of post-season games and a world series and all the profits that go with that.

  67. Chip January 7th, 2011 at 11:29 am

    mick January 7th, 2011 at 11:27 am
    You don’t bring in Garza if you’re dealing Zambrano.
    ===================================
    Please tell…

    ——————–

    Adding Garza (along with Pena) are signs that you want to win now. How does dealing your best pitcher help you in the pursuit of that objective?

  68. mick January 7th, 2011 at 11:29 am

    Cash is saving up for Albert.

  69. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 11:29 am

    i think if george had called joba a fat toad a couple of years ago, it might have helped…

  70. LGY January 7th, 2011 at 11:29 am

    “You don’t bring in Garza if you’re dealing Zambrano.”

    ——————–

    Actually acquiring Garza likely opens up the door for them to trade a starter.

    Also, Garza is not a one year go for it move. He still has 3 years of team control.

  71. mick January 7th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    The Cubs would love to unload Z’s contract.
    Sounds like they are looking for a substitute, they have pitching.

  72. GreenBeret7 January 7th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    Actually, that could make Zambrano/Wells more available in that the Cubs could use Yankee prospects to fill the trade or reload part of their farm system.

  73. mick January 7th, 2011 at 11:31 am

    I can see Z in NY, with or w/o Andy.

  74. YankeesNmore January 7th, 2011 at 11:32 am

    Just stop it, Chip! They didn’t ADD $100 million to LAST year’s team.. Jeter got a pay cut and Mo is making the same money as before.

  75. LGY January 7th, 2011 at 11:32 am

    “LGY – you are using the word cheap, not me. That’s not a business term. As I theorized, the Sabathia, Teixeira signings were necessary from a business standpoint as the team was in real danger of not being competitive. They had to do that and it was a strategic move as well as an investment IMO. It resulted in a full slate of post-season games and a world series and all the profits that go with that.”

    ———————–

    Why do I get the feeling that anytime they spend a lot of money you will pull the same BS line about it being an investment?

    Pretty difficult to win from that standpoint on their end.

    The Yankees spend more money than anyone in baseball. Hal Steinbrenner has spent an absolute boatload of money since taking over and was ready to approve another truckload this winter. Find something else to complain about instead of Hal’s spending.

  76. Wave Your Hat January 7th, 2011 at 11:32 am

    GB7-

    Add a Rauch to the pen, let Logan be more than a LOOGY, move Joba into the mix for a starting job, it can be done without getting another veteran starter.

  77. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 11:32 am

    how does aquiring garza mean they’re not letting z go. seems like it makes it much more likely to me

  78. ac1 January 7th, 2011 at 11:33 am

    Completely false. Cashman has full control of baseball operations, and more money to spend than any other GM in baseball history
    __

    you just dont like cashman and nothing rational will make you think otherwise.

    Being in charge of baseball operations doesnt mean he doesnt need hal’s approval.

  79. GreenBeret7 January 7th, 2011 at 11:34 am

    bringing in Pena gave them a first baseman at a cheaper price than Lee would have cost the Cubs.

  80. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 11:34 am

    there will be fa’s next year and the 5 seasons after that that we will be in on because lee went to philly.

  81. YankeesNmore January 7th, 2011 at 11:34 am

    “Get Soriano on the roster.
    1 or 2 years are fine.”
    ——————————–
    Fine for who??? YOU??? Soriano won’t sign that deal in a million years.

  82. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 11:36 am

    and since when is cheap not a buisness term. the buisness people i know, myself included, use it constantly.

  83. Hopdevil January 7th, 2011 at 11:36 am

    Interesting take on the Pettitte decision by Klapisch

    http://www.northjersey.com/spo.....Yanks.html

    Even if Pettitte is not concerned about Clemens…being called as a witness couldn’t be a good thing for Andy in the middle of the baseball season

  84. mick January 7th, 2011 at 11:36 am

    The prattle in here is getting monotonous.
    The agita beyond reproach.
    Time to take a mental health break.

  85. GreenBeret7 January 7th, 2011 at 11:36 am

    Wave Your Hat January 7th, 2011 at 11:32 am
    GB7-

    Add a Rauch to the pen, let Logan be more than a LOOGY, move Joba into the mix for a starting job, it can be done without getting another veteran starter

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    I have no issues with giving Chamberlain another crack at the rotation, but, I’d still bring in one of the remaining of Penny/Francis/Garcia, just in case.

  86. Against All Odds January 7th, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Done deal Garza is a Cub

  87. mick January 7th, 2011 at 11:39 am

    And yes Soriano gets to walk after 1 year. If the Yanks want him back, he will cost more.

  88. ac1 January 7th, 2011 at 11:39 am

    who did tampa get back for garza?

  89. LGY January 7th, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Garza off Tampa and traded to the NL. More good news today!

  90. mick January 7th, 2011 at 11:42 am

    prospects

  91. West Coast Yankee Fan January 7th, 2011 at 11:42 am

    LGY – The Yankees spend relative to what they take in. They had $450 million in revenues last year. A millionaire friend of yours might spend $30 grand on a luxury trip to Europe and that might be nothing to them.

  92. mick January 7th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    Can Big Z be next?

  93. YankeesNmore January 7th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    The only thing Cashman needs Hal’s approval for is going over the “budget” (see Mark Teixeira), and the “budget” is AT LEAST $200 million.

    Moreover, what “rational” point am I ignoring??? I can find plenty of published reports about Cashman having full control…

    Is there anything beyond a couple of fans’ opinions to even suggest “Hal is holding Cashman back?”

  94. randy l. January 7th, 2011 at 11:46 am

    garza to the cubs.

    now that’s very interesting.

    gotta read my green tea leaves what this means for the yankees.

  95. West Coast Yankee Fan January 7th, 2011 at 11:46 am

    Cubs just got Garza in a deal with the Rays.

  96. 108 stitches January 7th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    Hal Steinbrenner fully authorized Cashman to go all in on Lee.
    Since then, Martin and Feliciano have been signed for 2-year deals at $4M per.
    There’s still some Lee money left to either sign Soriano or deal for Zambrano with the Yankees splitting half of his $18M salary over the next 2 years thus giving the Cubs the salary relief they’re looking for. Either way it’s less money than Lee by himself would have cost.

    What’s the holdup ? It can’t be Pettitte. It’s more evident by the day that he won’t be back.

  97. Mike Ri January 7th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    Interesting

  98. pat January 7th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    #Rays send Garza plus 2 prospects to #Cubs for 4 prospects and Sam Fuld.

  99. blake January 7th, 2011 at 11:50 am

    That’s a good move for the Cubbies.

    FWIW Buster poked fun at Heyman for his “mystery team” stuff regarding Cliff Lee, turns out the laugh was on him.

  100. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 11:51 am

    i read where cashman and hal both commented this winter about how it works when cash wants to spend money and asks hal.

    to suggest that the g.m. has full control to spend anything is ridiculous. its not his money, as has been described every season, they set a budget targed and then consult as they move along accordging to whats available and what that player’s value is to the team.

    no way that’s a blank check to sign whoever cashman wants, you just want to portray it that way because your whole ‘thing’ is anti-cashman.

    hating on bc is fine, but at least be fair, its not his money to spend at-will. if your whole argument is resting on that, its a losing argument.

    learn from randy, he hates cash, too, but he doesnt bend the facts to make his case. (he just bends the twin’s stats….just kidding r).

  101. pat January 7th, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Buster_ESPN The general perception of proposed Cubs-Garza deal from rival evaluators: Cubs give up a lot of volume,but no real can’t-miss star prospect.

  102. upstate kate January 7th, 2011 at 11:53 am

    so much for my dream of the Yankees getting Garza :(

  103. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    “FWIW Buster poked fun at Heyman for his “mystery team” stuff regarding Cliff Lee, turns out the laugh was on him.”

    i started to comment before that heyman’s been right all over the place this winter. he takes a beating on this blog whenever he says anything, but it seems that he’s been faster and more accurate than any of the other typing heads that i hear from this winter.

  104. Chuck58 January 7th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Garza Gone! Let the dismantling begin ;-)
    [and, coincidentally, maybe this frees up Carlos Zambrano to come on over].
    One can make an argument either way; my instinct is that Z-Man will be dealt.

  105. GreenBeret7 January 7th, 2011 at 11:55 am

    upstate kate January 7th, 2011 at 11:53 am
    so much for my dream of the Yankees getting Garza

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Maybe NYYs get one of Garza/Zambrano for a group of prospects to refill a now depleted system.

  106. JEKIKASO January 7th, 2011 at 11:56 am

    GreenBeret7 January 7th, 2011 at 11:55 am
    upstate kate January 7th, 2011 at 11:53 am
    so much for my dream of the Yankees getting Garza

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Maybe NYYs get one of Garza/Zambrano for a group of prospects to refill a now depleted system.

    ******************************

    WAS JUST THINKING THAT MYSELF

  107. Chuck January 7th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Maybe Pettitte could sign mid-season like Clemens did in 2007 so Suzyn Waldman can flip out on radio.

  108. upstate kate January 7th, 2011 at 11:59 am

    OK, I will keep my Garza dream alive

  109. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    chuck i’ve been saying that for a while, but im sure we wont see any owners box appearances…

  110. G. Love January 7th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    While he makes sense I don’t think Cashman will sign Soriano. I don’t think Buster is off. Heyman is Boras’ shill and will always leak the Yankees are in the mix to drive up prices even if they aren’t.

    Cashman’s current approach scares me. It’s not the patience part of it. It’s the total lack of ingenuity.

    You see your team has a problem in the rotation. It would make sense to take some chances to fix the rotation with low risk/high upside guys and make the bullpen the best in baseball when all it will cost is money at this point.

    Instead, we’re seeing nothing of the sort. Pitcher’s and Catcher’s are coming right up and we’re still sitting here contemplating Mitre as a rotation piece because the team has no other options.

    Mitre should be battling for the long man job. Not the 5th starter job.

    I’d love to sit here and delude myself into thinking Cashman has some secret master plan that we don’t know about that is going to fix this team, but I don’t think that is the case. He bluffed about that plan with Lee and we’ve seen there was no backup to it.

    Right now I think his problem is he’s refusing to adjust to the market place with players now. He doesn’t like what they are being paid, especially set up guys, and is refusing to go there with players that other teams are paying market prices to.

    Cashman can’t dictate market. He can’t make players become cheaper and get them at prices he likes. If he could, Jeter would have gotten far less and Posada wouldn’t have had a 4th year.

    I think right now he has a “the buck stops here” approach with salaries and what he’s missing is that salaries are going up for average talent and specific role players.

    If Cashman keeps telling players he won’t pay them what they are worth on the market that will result in a future contract like what Boston did with Crawford. Boston had that approach for years telling players they had to take less to play in glorious Boston. Then when none of them were coming there, they opened the checkbook up wide and the spin of the Boston discount era is over despite what Gammons may want you to think. They overpaid everyone there including Jenks.

    The Yankees being frugal when they have holes and there are players available to fill holes and make the team stronger is folly. It means we’ll have a season where we have to trust our GM to build this team on the fly and wait for teams to become sellers.

    After looking at Cashman’s hits and misses over the years I’m not so sure I can trust his judgment building on the fly.

  111. Wave Your Hat January 7th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    “Maybe NYYs get one of Garza/Zambrano for a group of prospects to refill a now depleted system.”

    Not now, and not Garza. Maybe Zambrano at the trade deadline if the season goes south for the Cubbies.

  112. West Coast Yankee Fan January 7th, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    “FWIW Buster poked fun at Heyman for his “mystery team” stuff regarding Cliff Lee, turns out the laugh was on him.”

    i started to comment before that heyman’s been right all over the place this winter. he takes a beating on this blog whenever he says anything, but it seems that he’s been faster and more accurate than any of the other typing heads that i hear from this winter.

    *********************

    Not a surprise to me. I’m still waiting for one of the pontificating experts here who mouthed that anti-Heyman garbage to be man enough to own up to that.

  113. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    if pettitte wanted to outdo clemmen’s he’d could levitate over the field for a few minutes with suzyn at the mike.

    come to think of it, i believe there will be alot of good, slightly-used superman-stickered hoists and levitation equipment coming on the marked any time now…

  114. randy l. January 7th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    it’s amazing how hendry gets a pitcher like garza for unkown minor leaguers when there are no starting pitchers available anywhere from any team.

    what a magician. what a gm!!!

    gotta tip your hat to him on getting garza.

    that’s pretty amazing.

  115. GreenBeret7 January 7th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    There was little chance of NYYs getting Garza without giving up Montero, Betances, Noesi, Banuelos and more.

  116. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    this must be killing ray’s fans. i hope they can both get past it eventually…

  117. LGY January 7th, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    “LGY – The Yankees spend relative to what they take in.”

    ———————

    How else would you like them to operate?

    http://itsaboutthemoney.net/ar.....99-budget/

  118. G. Love January 7th, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    How do the Mets let the Cubs get Garza for that price without putting up a fight?

    Bizarre.

  119. CCBiggs January 7th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Soriano only makes sense if the Yanks are going to move Joba back into the rotation. Otherwise, Joba is basically demoted to a 6th or 7th inning reliever, and it doesn’t make sense.

  120. blake January 7th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    I really don’t know much about the prospects the Rays are receiving in this deal but I do know that their rotation will be worse in 2011 for it and being that they are in the AL East, that’s a good thing for the Yankees. Even if they insert Hellickson, neither Neilman or Shields are as good as Garza is.

  121. Rich in NJ January 7th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    “How do the Mets let the Cubs get Garza for that price without putting up a fight?”

    Do the Mets have the mL similar assets?

  122. LGY January 7th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    “it’s amazing how hendry gets a pitcher like garza for unkown minor leaguers”

    —————————

    The Cubs traded their 1, 4, and 10th ranked prospects according to BA. Would think those are pretty known prospects.

  123. Rich in NJ January 7th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    *similar mL*

  124. Erin January 7th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    SI_JonHeyman archer and lee are better players going to #rays in garza deal. as many as 8 players involved. could be 5 going to rays for 3

  125. heyman_sux January 7th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    How do the Mets let the Cubs get Garza for that price without putting up a fight?
    __________

    Cause they’re the Mets. Self-explanitory really, new GM or not

  126. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    good point g. apparently the mets are going to follow the knick’s scortched-earth policy. it may be a while before we hear anything out of flushing again.

  127. Erin January 7th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 12:06 pm
    this must be killing ray?s fans. i hope they can both get past it eventually?

    *********************************

    :lol:

  128. GreenBeret7 January 7th, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    Cubs will need financial relief to get rid of a couple of ugly contracts and need to restock the farm. NYYs could go after Zambrano and Fukadome with Cubs picking up a part of Fukadome’s contract and NYYs send him to Seattle/Arizona or Dodgers for minor leaguers. Everyone gets help.

  129. blake January 7th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Bright side for Rays fans…..the 12 diehards should have no problems getting a good seat at the Trop in 2011.

  130. Jerkface January 7th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    The Cubs may have traded for Garza, but that doesn’t prove ‘something is out there’ for the Yankees. Friedman wasn’t going to trade Garza in-division.

  131. Rich in NJ January 7th, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    “good point g. apparently the mets are going to follow the knick’s scortched-earth policy. it may be a while before we hear anything out of flushing again.”

    The Knicks’ strategy was guided by the need to get under a salary cap. The Mets face no similar impediments to spending.

  132. blake January 7th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    Yea had Garza played for someone else then be would have been a great target for the Yankees but as it was they weren’t getting him without Montero most likely and he’s not that type of pitcher……

  133. Erin January 7th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    BryanHoch George M. Steinbrenner statue erected at Yankees’ Spring Training home http://bit.ly/fYmydn

  134. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    one thing about the mets. if you ask me, and you can be sure nobody ever has or will, it does make sense for the mets to be the cheap alternative and not really compete with the yankees at the top of the market. i would think the best way to market them would be to lower the payroll and charge 25-50 bucks for pretty much every seat in the house with lower parking prices family discounts and even cheaper walk-up general admission ticket prices. they havent done very well in the f/a market and they will never compete with the yankees there anyway. no matter who the mets sign, its always pretty much ho-hum, the yankees signed 2 guys who are way better. they really cant win there.

    of course, every team wants to be the pre 2010 twins, but the mets have a much much bigger market, so could afford to compete with the yankees and rs when it comes to paying overslot for draftees and jumping further into the international market. even with reduced prices, they will still have way more sponsorship and tv money and in-stadium revenue than the other mid-payroll teams they would be competing with.

    and if they could near as successful as the twins and a’s have been over the years, they’d be doing better than they are now.

    this season, they are charging new york prices to witness the destruction of the club omar built. its gonna be ugly (even if mookie is coming to your son’s bar mitzvah)

  135. Jerkface January 7th, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    The Knicks’ strategy was guided by the need to get under a salary cap. The Mets face no similar impediments to spending.

    On the other hand, the new management might want to get out from under the moves of Omar Minaya and put their own stamp on the organization. The only guy I think they’ll keep is Wright, because he is actually good.

  136. randy l. January 7th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    “The Cubs traded their 1, 4, and 10th ranked prospects according to BA. Would think those are pretty known prospects.”

    lgy-

    so tell me what you knew about them before you looked them up.

    that 26 year old catcher who’s never played in the majors was kind of interesting though.

  137. Rich in NJ January 7th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    “On the other hand, the new management might want to get out from under the moves of Omar Minaya and put their own stamp on the organization. The only guy I think they’ll keep is Wright, because he is actually good.”

    I would keep Reyes, if he can remain healthy.

    I think the Mets’ chances turn on Santana’s health (or lack thereof), although winning the division is out of the question.

  138. spidanyc January 7th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    I’m no fan of AJ Burnett, but is Carlos Zambrano that much better than AJ? If i’m not mistaken, Zambrano makes around $15 million per and is a headcase, but it seems as if the Cubs can get rid of him without picking up any money towards his contract and getting decent-to-good prospects in exchange, while the Yankees can’t give away AJ for free.

  139. LGY January 7th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Randy

    Why would I know anything about the Cubs prospects?

  140. justinxdance27 January 7th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    Pettitte still unsure

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/bl.....mlb-304689

  141. Chip January 7th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    Wave Your Hat January 7th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
    “Maybe NYYs get one of Garza/Zambrano for a group of prospects to refill a now depleted system.”

    Not now, and not Garza. Maybe Zambrano at the trade deadline if the season goes south for the Cubbies.

    —————

    That I agree with.

    Similarly the White Sox aren’t moving Jackson or Floyd before the season starts either.

  142. randy l. January 7th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    “The Cubs may have traded for Garza, but that doesn’t prove ‘something is out there’ for the Yankees. ”

    jerkface-

    you would probably argue that when the lights go on it doesn’t “prove” it was because someone flipped a light switch.

  143. Jerkface January 7th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    you would probably argue that when the lights go on it doesn’t “prove” it was because someone flipped a light switch.

    No kidding, Gramps. Perhaps they were motion activated, or the Sun rose, or they are timer activated lights. Or maybe someone opened the fridge.

  144. Chip January 7th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    This doesn’t actually hurt the Rays much at all.

    They’re still going to run out there: David Price, James Shields, Jeff Niemann, Wade Davis and Jeremy Hellickson will slot into Garza’s spot.

    They got another nice pitching prospect in the deal and a SS incase Brignac doesn’t pan out.

    For the Cubs – they’ll probably move Gorzo into the pen or try to move Carlos Silva (last year of his deal) to create a spot in the rotation.

  145. randy l. January 7th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    “Why would I know anything about the Cubs prospects?”

    lgy-

    hey, that’s what Andrew Friedman said.

  146. Jerkface January 7th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Hak-Ju Lee is in A ball, he isn’t there in case Brignac doesn’t pan out. He is there to take over once Brignac gets close to Free Agency and they deal him. He is the only guy I knew about in the deal (since Vitters, et al were not included) and he has a gold glove ceiling.

    Archer’s minor league stats look good except for the walk rate.

  147. Chip January 7th, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    randy l. January 7th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
    “The Cubs may have traded for Garza, but that doesn’t prove ‘something is out there’ for the Yankees. ”

    jerkface-

    you would probably argue that when the lights go on it doesn’t “prove” it was because someone flipped a light switch.

    —————–

    Just because Tampa traded Matt Garza doesn’t mean he was ever an option for the Yankees. That’s like saying that because Zack Greinke was traded Kenny Williams failed by not getting him. Why would the Rays want to deal Garza to a team they’re trying to beat?

  148. West Coast Yankee Fan January 7th, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    There are tons of deals out there, it’s not up to fans with no knowledge of behind the scene conversations to know what they are. It is up to the Yankees to figure it out. They have money, they have prospects, there are 29 teams out there with approximately 145 major league starters.

    Results matter not excuses.

  149. Against All Odds January 7th, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    # CCBiggs January 7th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Soriano only makes sense if the Yanks are going to move Joba back into the rotation. Otherwise, Joba is basically demoted to a 6th or 7th inning reliever, and it doesn’t make sense.

    ——————————————————————

    It doesn’t make sense but the Yankees probably wouldn’t move him back. They would tell everyone how he’ll get to learn under Soriano and Rivera.

  150. LGY January 7th, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    hey, that’s what Andrew Friedman said.
    *******

    Lol randy. I hope so, but Friedman has a nice track record with young talent so I give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

  151. Chip January 7th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Jerkface -

    The OF they got – Guyer – fits the Tampa mold of a guy who isn’t going to be a star but can play multiple spots and will get around 400 abs without having a set position.

  152. Erin January 7th, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    New Post: Rays send Garza to the National League

    :arrow:

  153. YsGuy January 7th, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    i dont think the yankees want to move fat boy back to the rotation, even though i wish they would, but even if they were going to move him, they certainly wouldnt be saying anything about it until they have his bp replacement on the roster.

  154. randy l. January 7th, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    “No kidding, Gramps. Perhaps they were motion activated, or the Sun rose, or they are timer activated lights. Or maybe someone opened the fridge.”

    jerkface -

    actually , a better argument from you would have been:

    “The classic philosophical treatment of the problem of induction was given by the Scottish philosopher David Hume. Hume highlighted the fact that our everyday functioning depends on drawing uncertain conclusions from our relatively limited experiences rather than on deductively valid arguments.”

    you probably haven’t heard of hume. they used to have these things called books before you were born.

  155. Jerkface January 7th, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    I wasn’t aware books can become extinct. Let me check my Kindle. Yup, full of books.

  156. randy l. January 7th, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    “Just because Tampa traded Matt Garza doesn’t mean he was ever an option for the Yankees. That’s like saying that because Zack Greinke was traded Kenny Williams failed by not getting him. Why would the Rays want to deal Garza to a team they’re trying to beat?”

    skip.

    i’m starting to see pattern here.
    i think you are trying to tell me a gm should try to get a good player form a team that is in another division.

    if i’m following your complex reasoning, are you trying to tell me that there are 5 other divisions that cashman could trade some minor leaguers to for a starting pitcher ?

  157. Rich in NJ January 7th, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    I actually have trouble reading anything printed on a dead tree at this point.

  158. randy l. January 7th, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    ” Let me check my Kindle. Yup, full of books.”

    kindles are so last year. i’ll take my ipad any day .

  159. Jerkface January 7th, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    kindles are so last year. i’ll take my ipad any day

    You’ll hurt your eyes reading books on an ipad.

  160. Latroy Farnsworth January 7th, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    “ABSURDLY CHEAP”?!?!?!?! You have got to be absolutely kidding me!!!!

    The only person that is ABSURDLY CHEAP this offseason is Brian Cashman. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, when is this guy going to have his feet held to the fire?!?!?! If George was still around NO CHANCE IN HELL the Yanks would only be interested in a player like Soriano if it was ABSURDLY CHEAP. He can go on and on about Joba and Robertson being “set up men” but let’s be real here. Robertson is no set up man, he’s a 6th/7th inning guy. I’m not saying he’s not any good but that’s just the kind of pitcher he is and is most effective. And Joba the Hut?!?!? C’mon man the Yanks can only hope and pray that he remotely becomes the player that he was in 2007.

    If this is the way Cashman is going to continue to do things this offseason and Pettitte retires you all will see the Yanks finishing 3rd in the division behind Boston and Baltimore. Yes, Baltimore because unlike certain teams (Yankees) they’ve actually gone out and improved their ball club and aren’t afraid to spend money.

    So go ahead Cashman continue to try to and live out your wet dream of a running a “money ball” team here in the Bronx and see how far it gets you. But seriously will someone please explain to me why Cashman continues to get a free pass and isn’t being called out for not going after players that recorded 45 saves last year and had 1.73 ERA that are open to setting up for Rivera?????

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