Yankees organizational depth: First base
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 09, 2011 
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Up next in a position-by-position look at the Yankees organization we’ll turn to first base, where the Yankees lack of organizational depth shouldn’t be a significant concern because of the guy who’s already playing the position in New York.
In the big leagues
If you go from 2004 through 2009 and choose Mark Teixeira’s lowest single-season batting average, on-base percentage and slugging percentage you get this slash line: .281/.370/.514. That makes last year’s slash line of .256/.365/.481 a complete outlier. It was quite literally — in every way — unprecedented since Teixeira’s rookie year. No Yankees position player is better positioned for a rebound season than their soon-to-be 31-year-old first baseman. At his age, there’s little reason to expect a repeat of 2010, which is good for the Yankees because he’s locked up through the 2016 season.
On the verge
For the past three years, the first baseman waiting in the Triple-A shadows has been Juan Miranda. He always hit, but his path was always blocked and this winter he was traded to Arizona. Instead, the immediate minor league depth at first base centers on Jorge Vazquez and Brandon Laird. Vazquez is a veteran of the Mexican League, a raw power hitter who slugged .526 in Triple-A last season. Laird is a self-made prospect who’s spent most of his time at third base and is starting to see time in the outfield corners. Laird is more versatile than Vazquez — plus he has a 40-man spot with more prospect hype — but Vazquez isn’t out of the picture entirely. He’d have to impress to jump ahead of Laird for a call-up, but he’ll probably get most of the Triple-A starts at first base.
Deep in the system
Even in the lower levels, there isn’t a lot of pure first-base talent that jumps out as big-name prospects. Kyle Roller was the Yankees eight-round draft pick this summer, and he hit .272/.367/.402 while leading Staten Island in total bases last year. Luke Murton was a 19th-round pick in ’09 and slugged .463 in Charleston last season. A first-base wild card is Reymond Nunez, who’s shown good power in the extremely low levels of the system but hit just .222/.263/.361 and suffered a hamstring injury last year. He could be in the mix in Charleston, if not in April maybe some time during the season.
Organizational depth chart
My own rough guess. It’s far too early for the Yankees to settle on who will be where next season.
New York: Mark Teixeira
Scranton/WB: Jorge Vazquez
Trenton: Myron Leslie, Brad Suttle
Tampa: Luke Murton
Charleston: Kyle Roller
The true New York first-base depth chart probably includes Nick Swisher and Brandon Laird as well, but as long as Teixeira stays healthy, those two will obviously get most of their playing time elsewhere.
Suttle is a good defensive third baseman, but I listed him in the mix at first only because the Triple-A and Double-A infields are pretty crowded, and first base could be a position used primarily to get people at-bats. If Suttle, David Adams and Corban Joseph all open in Trenton, there will be only so many second base and third base at-bats to go around. Leslie is a former independent leaguer who could fill the gap. Guys like Rob Lyerly, Addison Maruszak, and Ramon Flores could also get some time at first base in the full-season leagues, but they primarily play other positions.
Associated Press photo of Teixeira, headshots of Teixeira, Vazquez and Murton
I certainly hope last year was just an aberration and not the start of a sudden decline. I recall Carlos Baerga, Roberto Alomar (34), Roger Maris (30), Mickey Mantle (33), and many others who lost it suddenly.
yankeefeminista
Manny made it an annual event to have a fantom injurie so he got time off.
One time he left Seattle because he was to injured to play and then it was reported he showed up here in Portland to go to a strip club with Ortiz who was here rehabbing.
One time the RS were playing the Yankees in NY. Manny was to sick to play but was seen out on the town with Enrique Wilson.
They had him PH and all he did was watch 3 FB for strikes without swinging the bat.
There are more stories besides these.
randy
the acorn doesn’t fall far from the family tree
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I don’t know your family so I can’t say.
randy l -
Either Nardi Contreras didn’t know what he was talking about, or the Yankees figured something out, because Banuelos did play in the AFL.
http://bleacherreport.com/arti.....raig-heyer
Some others that lost it fast (if I recall correctly):
Vada Pinson
Bobby Bonds
Ellis Valentine
Bobby Murcer
Juan Samuel
Edgardo Alfonso
Andruw Jones
Candy Maldonado
The thing that worries me about Tex is that he has such a pronounced uppercut swing and tries to pull everything. It is not a swing that I see aging gracefully.
Hope I am wrong.
But, randy l, more to the point – I don’t know the rules of the Mexican Winter Leagues as it relates to players who also play in the U.S. and vice versa. If Contreras did know what he was talking about, unless you know the rules and circumstances, how could anyone comment on this as a sign that the Yankees are somehow doing something wrong?
And I don’t know about other teams’ prospects who may be affected.
I did see a story about the Phillies 6th best prospect playing for the MWL this off-season.
Is the cheese of Wisconsin preferable over the cheesesteak sandwiches of Philadelphia?
I say yes
Baneulos was supposed to pitch in Mexican League and not Arizona Fall League (AFL), but the Yankees worked out a special deal with the club and league to allow him to play in AFL. If I recall, after the AFL seasaon, he was going to play in Mexican Winter League.
“Well Rich I’d fail to see the negative aspects in wanting to win every year, I think that most professional teams enter a season with the goal of winning the championship.”
Hope is not a plan.
If every player in MLB became a FA every year, and the Yankees had an unlimited budget, then it might make sense. But since that’s not the case, choices have to made based on a cost-benefit analysis of near-term v. long-term gain.
If too much emphasis is placed on the former, it fosters a short-sighed decision-making process that precludes patience.
The result is an over reliance on overpaid, declining, often mediocre veterans, because that is the type of player that most often hits the FA market.
“Given that they have only won the WS once in the last 10 years I think suggests some different problems.”
It actually suggests the opposite.
The Yankees have been able to win five rings since 1996 because they had a homegrown,and initially a cost-controlled, core that enabled them to supplement it through some strategic trades and FA signings.
The Yankees now have enough young players (Cano, Hughes) and prospects (Montero, the Killer Bs, etc.) to be able to form the foundation of championship teams for years to come.
The only thing needed is the vision to afford them sufficient patience to reach that status, even if it means taking a step back for a year.
Pretending that you can win the WS every year when the facts are contra is an impediment to doing that.
Randy l -
I found something on Mexican League rules, but it’s pretty complex.
Here’s the link, but it’ll take some reading to figure it out. And not knowing the particulars of Banuelos’ situation, I can’t really say. But the Mexican Leagues like to keep their players, it seems, or at least make it difficult (expensive) for an American/Canadian ML team to procure their players.
And I apologize – in my haste I misread the previous link – I don’t know if Banuelos played in the AFL; he did play in the AFL rising stars game.
http://books.google.com/books?.....38;f=false
Banuelos played in AFL for Mattingly’s team, as well as the Future’s game, and then went to mexican League
You don’t need to have played baseball professionally or even collegiately to be a good baseball scout. Lots of scouts did not play, you’re depending on their experience gained by scouting players and seeing players and judging them.
Jeter might have played the game, but I don’t know if you’d ask him to tell you which of these 10 college hitters is going to make the majors and be an impact player. There is value placed on having played, but overvaluing it is not wise. Even players who want to become scouts start off small.
Rich
+1 nice post.
If you learn the science of pitching, and know how it works (which anyone can do, but might not be able to put it into practice due to lack of command of muscle groups that athletes possess and what makes them the top 1% of people who get to play baseball professionally), and know what makes pitchers effective, you should be able to watch players and see what they are doing.
And by the way Randy:
“Unfortunately in this game, if you’re under the age of 35 and you didn’t play in the big leagues, it’s kind of easy to get classified,” said Eppler, who pitched for the University of Connecticut until a shoulder problem ended his career. “And it’s fine, I understand, but it’s not something I’m real versed in.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03.....ppler.html
Cashman has a statistician, but it is not Eppler. Michael Fishman, 30, is the Yankees’ director of quantitative analysis, filtering reports from scouts, trainers and staff — “plus every statistic pipeline that you have,” Cashman said — through a program the Yankees designed.
“Is Billy a stats guy? No, and I joke with him about it,” said Bill Schmidt, the Colorado Rockies’ vice president for scouting. “But does he use it as a tool? We all do. Billy is a well-rounded scout, and any well-rounded scout is going to look at stats.”
They would talk about tools, Eppler said, and, yes, statistics. One day in 2003, the year Michael Lewis’s book “Moneyball” was published, Livesey asked Eppler what he considered a good on-base percentage. Eppler answered .360. To his delight, Livesey agreed.
“From that point forward, if he was in the park, I was sitting next to him,” said Eppler, who still relies heavily on Livesey’s advice.
Livesey, 68, said Eppler impressed him with his willingness to learn and a background he steadily expanded over five seasons with Colorado. Eppler worked in amateur scouting, player development and professional scouting, learning what to look for in a prospect, how to move players through the minors and how to evaluate other teams’ talent. He also mixed in a semester of law school.
Jerkface – interesting post about Billy Eppler, Mike Fishman, and Bill Livesy. Where’d you find that? I remember reading that Livesy was very important in helping to build the dynasty of the 95-01 teams. I knew about Eppler, and how highly regarded he is in the baseball world, but not Fishman.
Yes, the Yanks were into OBP and a variety of things, before Lewis’ book on Beane, thanks to what seems like pioneering efforts by Livesy and Gene Michael.
Nice to know the Yanks have such well regarded baseball people in their hierarchy. It’s never just one person, it really does take an entire organization.
Banuelos played in the Arizona Fall League, but, not in the Mexican Winter League. The Yanks just wanted to get his innings up to the 90 innings mark. He’ll be in line to get to 135-140 innings in 2011. His career innings high is 109 in 2009. Ny the time he gets to NYY in late 2012/2013, He’ll be fully mature and should have no innings limits.
” At his age, there’s little reason to expect a repeat of 2010 . . . ”
Baseball has a wicked tendency of surprising us all .
Andrew Sisco got his innings up to 145 innings after the winter leagues and could be starting in Scranton. He did well and knocked the walks down considerably. still high, but, gotta like the strikeout totals after missing all of the last two seasons. He finally finished the season healthy. I like him more than I like Romulo Sanchez.
http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/.....pid=434878
“If Contreras did know what he was talking about, unless you know the rules and circumstances, how could anyone comment on this as a sign that the Yankees are somehow doing something wrong?”
doreen-
you don’t see any problem with a mexican team “owing” him?
i can see the yankees wanting to have a player play in a winter league but i don’t think they’d “own” him.
it was either a misuse of language by contreras and no big deal or else there is a very odd relationship between the mexican league and mlb teams. if there is it’d be interesting to hear about it.
with baneulos probably being at least million dollar asset of the yankees at this point,i would think that if the mexican team really owned him they could do what they wanted with him as far as how they pitched him and that wouldn’t be ideal for the yankees.
Generally, foreign players can only play winter ball in their home countries without the MLB compensating that team that owns his contract with another player or agreement. It’s also why the ML tea, has no control over when or what position an player plays. Nunez was supposed to play the outfield in winter ball, but, when he did play, it was in the infield. NYY had to make a deal to allow Banuelos to play in Arizona as it was. Players aren’t allowed to play there if the foreign player’s home country plays winter ball (without arrangements being made).
Back to the 1st basemen, Jorge Vazquez has also played third base, catcher and outfield in the Mexican leagues.
“Unfortunately in this game, if you’re under the age of 35 and you didn’t play in the big leagues, it’s kind of easy to get classified,” said Eppler, who pitched for the University of Connecticut until a shoulder problem ended his career. “And it’s fine, I understand, but it’s not something I’m real versed in.””
thank you jerkface-
at least he has some idea of pitching in college.
i still think he’s unqualified to make the major judgement about joba chamberlain.
he seems like a very personable guy as dan cavalea seems but to have both of them with their inexperience being in the top position their respective yankee positions seems amateurish to me.
gb7-
i posted this earlier today.
take a look at it.
it is a thing of beauty looking at mantle load up to release the bat.
mantle vs ichiro
http://www.RightViewPro.com/ho…..antle#with
try this:
http://www.rightviewpro.com/ho.....ept/mantle
Randy, I couldn’t get that page to open up. The only thing i can see in common with Mantle and Suzuki is speed going from home to first from the left handed batter’s box.
The guy whose swing from the left side that most reminds me of Mantle is Teixeira, with that severe uppercut. his right handed swing is quite similar to Mantle’s too. Quite and level.
gb7-
try the second link . i think that works.
it’s interesting to look at also because they flipped ichiro ad have him batting righty.
Thanks Randy. The last link opened it. What I remember about Mantle’s right handed swing was how fast and level it was. That and a short stance and then the long stride and the bat just ended up a blur. That swing was as perfect as a Sandy Koufax windup and delivery. Exactly what a coach would teach.
It seems that a lot of the discovered talent will be in AA and AAA this season with a few exceptions. For those of us hoping for a 3-peat in Tampa it would be cool to see some guys come up and do great things. I personally enjoy the games because I love baseball, also I love baseball that lacks stress. If the TY lose a game I generally don’t care unless its a shutout or blowout then its just painful. In 09 there was Romine, Laird, Montero etc. In 10 there were the B’s Suttle, Venditte, Joseph, Mesa. It was a crazy stocked team. In 11 there will be Marshall, Lyrely probably Murphy but not much else. So I’m hoping to get to see them come out on top again. Though if not iill still enjoy the games.
similar to Mantle’s too. Quite and level.
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similar to Mantle’s too. ***Quick*** and level.
I think Tampa yankee fans will be happy with Heathbott playing center field, too. Once he was finally healthy, he did well. You may get some repeat pitchers because there are so many of them. You’ll have Ramirez, Brett Marshall and Brian Mitchell at least in the rotation.
I never noticed Ichiro stood that far up in the batter’s box.
***Heathcott***
One other thunder stick will be Luke Murton playing corner outfield and first base.
“That swing was as perfect as a Sandy Koufax windup and delivery”
gb7-
good comparison. koufax and mantle had enormous strides.
i’ve told this story before, but one day in early spring training i went over to the rangers ballpark in port charlotte and i watched from about 20 feet away as koufax instructed the whole ranger pitching staff on how to stride longer like he did.
his stride was like a foot longer than the rangers pitchers. all the ranger pitchers were in awe of koufax and were trying to extend their stride, but kevin brown looked right at koufax and said something like ” F that, i’m not doing it.”
i couldn’t believe my ears. brown went over, leaned on the chain link fence and pouted the rest of the demonstration. koufax was very classy and just laughed at brown and said no problem.
i’ve tried extending my stride a foot and it is very weird to do . it feels like you are going to break something. koufax must have been very flexible ( as malt must have been too for all his muscles).
i’m sure you know it , but early spring training before the games start is an an awesome time to get close to players doing things like this. i like it better than the games.
Damned. I feel old. Ralph Terry is 75 years old today.
I forgot about Heathcott, hopefully he stays healthy. I forgot too that Jonathan Ortiz got picked up my Oakland so we are lacking a closer. But I like offense more than pitching so the guys coming up should suffice.
“Damned. I feel old.”
that’s because you are old. real old.
you’re so old should change your name to CD7- Carbon Dated 7
Randy l -
I don’t see anything wrong with it if it’s the rules the govern players between the two leagues.
But I’m not a lawyer and certainly no expert in the rules governing international dealings between baseball leagues.
And the bottom line is the Yankees did get it done – got Banuelos in the AFL.
randy l. January 9th, 2011 at 6:48 pm
“That swing was as perfect as a Sandy Koufax windup and delivery”
gb7-
good comparison. koufax and mantle had enormous strides.
i’ve told this story before, but one day in early spring training i went over to the rangers ballpark in port charlotte and i watched from about 20 feet away as koufax instructed the whole ranger pitching staff on how to stride longer like he did.
his stride was like a foot longer than the rangers pitchers. all the ranger pitchers were in awe of koufax and were trying to extend their stride, but kevin brown looked right at koufax and said something like ” F that, i’m not doing it.”
i couldn’t believe my ears. brown went over, leaned on the chain link fence and pouted the rest of the demonstration. koufax was very classy and just laughed at brown and said no problem.
i’ve tried extending my stride a foot and it is very weird to do . it feels like you are going to break something. koufax must have been very flexible ( as malt must have been too for all his muscles).
i’m sure you know it , but early spring training before the games start is an an awesome time to get close to players doing things like this. i like it better than the games.
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As good as Brown was, he always was a real jerk.
koufax, as muscular as he was, was really limber. They were long muscles and not knotted/bunched, like Mantle. That could explain why Mantle was always pulling muscles. He was built like a a fullback. Koufax was built like a basketball player. Long and lean. Both just had natural mechanics, though. Perhaps the 2 most perfect baseball players ever.
Randy l -
BTW -
Did you look at the second link I posted?
It’s a pretty complex relationship between the Mexican leagues and US and Canadian leagues. They don’t want to lose too many players.
randy l. January 9th, 2011 at 6:54 pm
“Damned. I feel old.”
that’s because you are old. real old.
you’re so old should change your name to CD7- Carbon Dated 7
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LMAO. I knew that as soon as I hit enter on the computer, I was in trouble. I had forgotten that you were around.
GB7 -
How’d you learn the intricacies of the Mexican League provisos????
“I don’t see anything wrong with it if it’s the rules the govern players between the two leagues.”
doreen-
let me try it this way.
say you and another woman in mexico shared your new tiguan. you owned it in the summer and she owned it in the winter.
now there could be rules governing your arrangement, but wouldn’t you rather own you new tiguan by yourself ?
“I had forgotten that you were around.”
see, that’s another sign you’re old.
doreen . no i’ll go back and check it. thanks.
Here are some of the AFL rules on foreign players.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Fall_League
“Each August, Major League Baseball clubs hold a position draft to determine the players who will go to Arizona. Most are Double-A and Triple-A Minor League players. Each club can opt to send two players below Double-A. Foreign players are allowed, as long as the player is not on his native country’s primary protected player list. The league is designed for these prospects to refine their skills and perform in game settings in front of major and minor league baseball scouts and team executives, who are in attendance at almost every game. Play begins shortly after the end of MLB’s regular season in early October, and ends in mid-November.
The Arizona Fall League teams are not exclusive affiliates of any one team; instead, each Major League team provides seven players who team up to fill the 35-man roster of each team. Additionally, teams may elect to send Taxi Squad players who are only eligible on Wednesdays and Saturdays. MLB teams also provide managers, coaches, and trainers. The affiliations generally change every year.”
Doreen January 9th, 2011 at 6:58 pm
GB7 -
How’d you learn the intricacies of the Mexican League provisos????
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just poking around the different sites, Doreen.
Unlike Randy, I’m not just another pretty face, I have brains to go with my “beauty”.
“koufax, as muscular as he was, was really limber.”
the other thing i remember was how long koufax’s fingers were when he gripped the ball.
He really did have big hands. His hands, like Johnny Bench could just swallow a baseball.
Randy, Jane Leavy wrote a great book on Koufax with a lot of interviews with Kkoufax talking about his mechanics. a really great read. “Sandy Koufax: A Lefty’s Legacy”.
“One great moment of the evening was when Simers brought Clayton Kershaw up on stage. Despite being a few inches taller than Koufax, when the two compared hands, the top of Clayton’s fingers only reached to the top knuckle of Sandy’s fingers. Incredible; and as Torre pointed out, that was the key to Sandy’s dangerous curve ball. ”
gb7-
with the help of google, i found the above.
http://dodgerfan.net/dodgers-k.....tion-event
randy l -
Of course you want to own the contract outright. I just started reading the legal gobble-de-gook and what I take from it is that Mexico is protective of their league and the US league really has to play by their rules.
It’s frustrating. There’s so much information available, and yet, not enough, or not exactly what you need, or you have to wade through the words. Plus, you try to avoid writing encyclopedias in this blog (although I know I’m guilty of writing pretty long posts myself). It’s limiting.
And it’s difficult to get your thinking across exactly.
Perhaps I’m wrong or perhaps I’m naive, but I’d think that the Yankees have people in their organization who are experts in dealing with the international players and the various nuances of dealing with their countries. We don’t have all the information. And I’m not saying you’re wrong; I’m saying we’re limited and I’m uncomfortable pointing fingers and saying things are not being done right when I simply don’t know.
Simply speaking, I believe any organization would work best when they have bright people who can think ahead and see trends, who know how to hire the right people to get things done, who recognize their weaknesses and seek to hire people who can address and correct them; who are not afraid to delegate; who are a combination of experience, intelligence, youth, old-school and new-school.
I can’t say with any degree of certainty how the Yankees are run. I can say that it looks like they’re trying to change the culture, and I do believe Cashman sees the trends. But having a vision and being able to put it into practice? I have no knowledge of Cashman inside his office.
It’s complicated.
So, oftentimes, I just want to enjoy the team, cheer them and be happily oblivious. Like when I first started watching the game.
The most important thing for the Yankees to do is to finally rid the organization of George Steinbrenner’s spies, like Billy Conners. Conners was George’s organizational snitch. Not sure that Contreras’ real function, but, I’ve never been terribly impressed with him as a teacher/evaluator.
Hand size does seem to be a common theme among the great ones. I shook Gaylord Perry’s hand once and it just engulfed mine.
When Phil Jackson was asked what the biggest difference between Jordan and Kobe was, he said there hands……Jordan has just enormous mitts and it allowed him do a lot of thongs with the ball that otherwise he couldn’t do…..
Things not thongs
I remember seeing a photos of Koufax holding something like 6 baseballs in his hand. As a Yankee fan my main feeling about Koufax was, I sure wish we had him. He was a thing of beauty with his windup.
It all makes me think of the 63 Series.
With Ryan Ludwick of San Diego going to arbitration, I wonder if NYYs try making a deal with them and trying to pick up a starter or maybe reliever Mike Adams, too?
doreen-
i think it was an interesting subject especially where one of the three B’S is concerned. this blog is good for getting info on things like this.
blake January 9th, 2011 at 7:32 pm
Things not thongs
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Not many people would be all that thrilled to see Michael Jordan doing stuff with thongs,
Gb,
That guy in the Hanes commercial seems interested.
What’s complicated Banuelos’s winter ball status for the yankees was the fact that they did not sign Banuelos as an amateur player.
Banuelos, unlike most other young players from outside of the states, was already playing professional baseball at the age of 17. He was playing in the Mexican league for Monterrey. He had a professional contract of some sort.
The Yankees acquired Banuelos in the same transaction through which they purchased the rights to Alfredo Aceves. They also got a couple of other players in that same transaction. In total they go all of those players for 450K. That was quite a move by the yankees and a great job by their scouting department covering mexico.
But in the transaction, Monterrey would not sell the winter ball rights to Banuelos. From their end they probably figured that part of the value of even selling Banuelos to the yankees was that it would potentially make a name for himself and he would be a draw over the winter.
Aceves and Banuelos were largely unknown. At the time Banuelos was much less developed and didn’t throw as hard. They were both fliers the yankees took. Banuelos in particular was probably a kid who looked years away.
In general, the Yankees like their younger international players to return to their home countries over the winter. These are just kids 16, 17, 18 and they really should see their parents. That’s why the international kids go home to play winter ball. Montero did the same thing.
It’s very possible that Monterrey would not sell Banuelos unless they could retain his winter ball rights. It was probably a compromise that worked for both sides.
So technically one can construe Banuelos’s situation as Monterrey “owning” part of him.
This isn’t that unusual an arrangement in international professional sports where players get divided up almost like a series of stocks.
But Monterrey only has his winter ball rights. They have no other claim on him.
And now that Banuelos has moved much faster than anyone could have guessed, it was good to see the yankees come to an agreement with Monterrey that allowed him to play in the AFL.
blake January 9th, 2011 at 7:39 pm
Gb,
That guy in the Hanes commercial seems interested.
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Yeah, but, that guy was just a California “bacon” guy. Do they really count?
randy l -
It is a really interesting subject.
And I’ve got my fingers crossed that at least one of them fulfills their promise. Banuelos sounds so good. So many things can happen….
CB,
Good to see you and your knowledge back!
Good stuff CB, nice seeing you around…
Well as a Giant fan I was glad to see Philly lose.
Thank you, SAS. The last few days around here just wasn’t worth the efoort. I enjoy the little inside stuff over the “whose fault it is” and “he stinks” BS. You like the history like I do. If you can get to a bookstore, I recommend Jane Leavy’s books on Mantle and Koufax. She’s really good, Not your typical bios.
CB =
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Thanks SAS. Thanks Blake. Hope the both of you are doing well.
Doreen January 9th, 2011 at 7:43 pm
randy l -
It is a really interesting subject.
And I’ve got my fingers crossed that at least one of them fulfills their promise. Banuelos sounds so good. So many things can happen….
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Banuelos’ biggest stumbling block is his age and size. He really needs to have the time to grow to physical maturity. Right now, he’s Ron Guidry size but 6 years younger than Guidry was that this stage of development. He has a lot of guidry’s qualities, though, including stuff and mental maturity. Really nice, unassumming kid…more Hughes than Kennedy/Chamberlain in make-up.
CB,
All’s well. Happy New Year.
GB7 -
Do you think he has the maturity to make an earlier debut? Not this season, certainly, but perhaps in 2012?
Or would that be rushing him?
“Not sure that Contreras’ real function, but, I’ve never been terribly impressed with him as a teacher/evaluator.”
CD7 , i mean , gb7-
i don’t know how good a coach connors was but he sure could fill out a t-shirt. back in 94 or so, i had the good fortune to spend the afternoon on the yankee bench at fenway. my friend carl taylor wanted me to see the four yankee BP itches throw that day and early evening so i could maybe learn how to do it ( it’s not as easy as it looks). i had made up some t-shirts that said ” Location, Location, and Location” with a white home plate at the end of the phrase and gave a bunch to carl (who told me to make them up) so he could wear one under his yankee uni.
connors got a hold of one and came into the dugout wearing one on his way to the bullpen with his belly stretching the material to it’s limits( think a very pregnant woman) and shook my hand saying “great t-shirt”.
so i liked him because he liked my t-shirt.
i have no idea how good a coach he was though. carl taylor seemed to like him though and he had pretty high standards with baseball people. but you might be right. there was a lot of palace intrigue in toss days.
CB, Nice rundown and added info on Banuelos and the Mexican League operations. Good to see you back after the holiday breaks.
The popular LoHud phrase “Nardi raves about him” would not exist without Nardi Contreras, so he’s more valuable than you think.
The coolest thing I’ve found so far from “The Last Boy” is that Martha Stewart used to babysit for the Mantles and Berras. I used to hate Martha but she came down to earth once she went to jail.
But I’m upset now because I didn’t finish the book over my break and now I won’t have time to read it because school and my internship starts tomorrow.
Doreen, on Banuelos, I’m thinking that maybe a late 2012 call-up, mainly because he’ll be near the end of his innings limits. Unless it’s a dire Hughes/Chamberlain type emergency, I can’t see him any sooner. He really is good, though. Nothing seems to bother him, whether it’s base runners or errors behind him. Also has the makings of a good move to first base to hold runners. Not Pettitte good, but, Mussina good (until his last 3 years).
Doreen-
No problem. I hope I answered the question. I didn’t go through the prior thread so I was just trying to figure out the discussion in its middle.
I have no idea if this is correct, but my this is my sense for how Banuelos may have been acquired. Aceves was the “headliner” in that purchase. But he really didn’t look to be anything special as he was older and didn’t throw hard.
I’d guess that the yankees really liked Banuelos as well but may not have wanted to tip their hands because then the price on him would have gone up a lot. He was only 17. Monterrey would clearly know how much 16-17 year old amatuer’s were being signed for and would want as much if they got any sense that the Yanks thought Banuelos may have been special.
In turn the yankees bought several other “lesser” players after Aceves as a group. Banuelos may have been packaged as just one of them. People do this kind of thing all the time if they don’t want others to know that they are trying to acquire a relatively unknown asset that they put a lot of value on.
It was very reasonable for Monterrey to retain his winter ball rights. The Yankees would have wanted him to go home. That’s their standard practice. I’m sure Monterrey knew this. They were probably just trying to make sure that when Banuelos went home for the winter they could guarantee he would headline in relationship to their organization rather than for a competitor.
I obviously don’t know that for certain. I say it because once Banuelos was acquired the Yankees put him on the fast track for international kids. At the time I was very puzzled by this. From what you could tell Banuelos seemed like a kid who should spend at least a season in the Dominican.
Instead they brought Banuelos stateside immediately. And then quickly sent him to the GCL.
The Yankees usually only bring international kids stateside right away if they really like them and think they are very mature.
Not something you’d expect of a 17 year old they bought in a package along with 4 other players for 450K.
tyanksfan36
That’s a nifty tidbit!
I got the book for my husband for Christmas. It was in the house for about 4 weeks, and I wouldn’t read it, because it was his gift. Now I’m waiting for him to finish it – but he just started a new assignment at work, so the book is not high priority (and it’s too big to take to work with him to read on the bus).
So, I think the book is fair game now. If the book is home and he is not, I think I can read it, no?
“It’s very possible that Monterrey would not sell Banuelos unless they could retain his winter ball rights. It was probably a compromise that worked for both sides.”
CB-
thanks. great info tying up the loose ends that doreen , gb7 ,and i talked about.
it is a very unusual situation and as banuelos gets more important to the yankees you’d think they’d buy the winter rights too.
CB -
Randy brought up the subject and I felt I couldn’t comment not knowing details. Looking on the internet netted me the Mexican League International Rules. Complicated doesn’t begin to describe them. But when you don’t really know what you’re looking for, it’s hard to define the search for information.
I figured he must have fallen into some category where Mexico retained some of his rights.
What you say makes a lot of sense.
all this baseball talk is giving me spring fever.
time to start thinking about heading to florida.
Doreen
I would say it is fair game. Its a really good book, its very anecdotal which I like. I tried to finish it on my break and even had time at work to read it so I’m hoping ill get time between classes to get it finished. I’m about halfway through it. You’ll probably enjoy it.
Johnny Bench has the hugest hands,I remember a photo of him holding about 7 baseballs in one hand….
Example:
Q: have you heard about this new pitcher we signed from the Dutch spring league, Svmelky JoPeunutsen?
A: Nardi raves about him.
Randy
I’m already in Florida and its still hard. I want baseball to start now. I even wrote the Tampa Yankee home games on my calendar and when the NYY games are on cable, and figured out more Spring Training games I want to go to.
“it is a very unusual situation and as banuelos gets more important to the yankees you’d think they’d buy the winter rights too.”
It looks to be a non-issue now given how fast he’s moved. It’s now in Monterrey’s interest for Banuelos to turn into a star in the U.S. They didn’t create any problems for the yankees this winter when they wanted him in the AFL.
From Monterrey’s perspective, if he does come back to Mexico for the winter, I’d guess they would be very invested in making sure he doesn’t play for a competitor.
tyanksfan,
Good luck with your internship. Enjoy these last year’s at school. Life is never the same once you are in the work world.
randy l -
My folks now live in FL full-time and my mom decided she wanted to see the Yankees play a spring training game, so she went online and found tickets to a game in Orlando against the Braves. But they were upper deck seats. She thought she could do better. Bottom line? NO tickets left in the 2 minutes it took her to realize she’d already been offered the best seats available. I told her there are no bad seats in those small stadiums. Now she nows.
tyanksfan36 -
I’m looking forward to reading it. I read the Posadas’ book yesterday. That’s a fast read. Very touching, but I have to say, I don’t think I’d have liked Laura Posada in her pre-Jorge Luis life! I have never had the confidence she had!! The other things is, after reading the details of what they went through and paralleling that to Jorge’s work as the Yankee’s catcher – I will never be able to tolerate any criticism of him (not that I liked it before, but I’m even more intolerant!).
Another good book to read in Tony Castro’s book. “Mickey Mantle: America’s Prodigal Son”. best to read before Jane Leavy’s, book.
teams like Monterrey make more money selling their players to US teams than as drawing cards in their leagues. That’s their main function. Once Banuelos is an established starter, it’s not likely that he’ll pitch more than a handful of winter games. Hitters like Pena and Vazquez are a different story. They can learn while supplementing their income.
“It looks to be a non-issue now given how fast he’s moved. It’s now in Monterrey’s interest for Banuelos to turn into a star in the U.S.”
it’s a complicated world for a young player and the best place to play winter ball.
“Prior to 2010, Monterrey, the wealthiest city in Mexico, had not been impacted by the drug wars. Home to many of Latin America’s most prestigious colleges, Monterrey had enjoyed an informal “cease fire” for decades; both cartel leaders and government officials sent their children to universities like Monterrey Tech, a school often considered as Mexico’s equivalent to MIT. This status as safe zone no longer exists. ”
http://www.hispanicvista.com/H.....titute.htm
Doreen
I have always liked Posada, not sure why. I can’t tolerate any hatred for him so when the board get to that I just leave it until they’ve moved on. I read that book too and it was touching, to go through that and have to be gone from him for weeks was probably awful for them to go through. I lent the book to my grandmother for thanksgiving because she is a huge Posada fan and she finished it before the weekend was over.
SAS
I only have 1 semester of classes left and then I do my final internship in the fall which is pretty much a teaching job mon-fri without getting paid. I’m going to try to enjoy my time this semester and go to as many Tampa Yankee games as I can before the real world comes calling.
gb7-
speaking of monterrey ,mexico, when we were kids wasn’t there a “moochie” movie about that monterrey league team that won the little league world series.
Randy,
I remember Moochie going to the LL World Series. I don’t remember a Mexican team, but there was a famous Monterrey team about that time. I remember they had a kid that pitched with either hand.
Randy, I think so. can’t remember the details, though, one of the kids from that team did end up playing shortstop in the majors. Hector Torres. He was the winning pitcher in the final ’58 LLWS. Oddly, Monterrey was barred from competing because they had some players not from Monterrey, supposedly. I could have been because the Monterrey s;um kids wom in both 1957 and 1958.
Monterrey ***slum kids won***
Notes and links on a slow, slow day
Tyanks,
Good plan. As an old guy I say the workaday world comes soon enough. Go to the games. The only rule is, you must report to us on your observations.
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