A familiar plan for Cito Culver, plus minor league notes
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 11, 2011 
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Back in June, the Yankees chose high school shortstop Cito Culver as their first-round draft pick. For Culver’s first full season as a professional, the Yankees have a familiar plan in mind.
The Yankees first-round pick in 2009 was also a high school position player, and Slade Heathcott was moved cautiously in his first full season. Heathcott opened last year in extended spring training and didn’t join Low-A Charleston until June.
Vice president of baseball operations Mark Newman said the Yankees will “most likely” do the same thing this season with both Culver and second-round pick Angelo Gumbs. Both are 18 years old and developing at key defensive positions. Rushing them is not in the plans.
The same sort of caution could be true for fourth-round pick Mason Williams, a 19-year-old center fielder who played five Gulf Coast League games last season. Newman said the Yankees will “see where he is” in spring training before deciding where Williams opens the season.
Newman said there’s “no question” Culver will continue to be developed as a shortstop, but Gumbs will be tested at different positions. He could see some time at second base, and center field is a legitimate option. “We’re still in the evaluation stage,” Newman said.
• Speaking of Heathcott, he hit .258/.359/.352 with 101 strikeouts in 76 games with Charleston last season. It’s entirely possible he’ll return to Charleston for the beginning of the 2011 season. “We’ll see,” Newman said.
• Last year’s third-round draft pick, Rob Segedin, was selected out of Tulane, so he’s older and more advanced than Culver and Gumbs. Segedin will open in Charleston, where he’ll continue to play third base while also getting some reps in right field.
• If David Adams, Corban Joseph and Brad Suttle all open the season in Double-A, they’ll have to mix and match positions, including some reps at DH, to give all three regular at-bats. Newman said there’s a chance one of those three could open at a different level, but it’s a “low” chance.
• Outfielder Cody Johnson, acquired from the Braves this winter, is most likely heading for Double-A instead of Triple-A. He’s been in Double-A for part of the past two seasons, but he has yet to hit above .189 at that level. The guy does have some power, though.
• Don’t rule out lefty Shaeffer Hall for Double-A. He opened last season in Low-A Charleston but pitched his way to High-A Tampa where he had nine wins and a 3.91 ERA in 15 appearances. This is only his second full season, but Hall is already 23 years old, so the Yankees might push him to Trenton to open the season.
• The Yankees have not decided where shortstop Carmen Angelini will open the season — Tampa or Charleston — but this is clearly a season when Angelini needs to finally show something at the plate. “He needs to get it going,” Newman said. Culver and Gumbs are already overshadowing him in the lower levels.
• Pretty much every scouting report you’ll ever read about Graham Stoneburner suggests his ultimate role could be as a reliever rather than a starter. The Yankees, though, will continue to use Stoneburner out of the rotation, and they believe that he could remain a starter if his changeup continues to develop. Stoneburner had a 2.41 ERA between Tampa and Charleston last season, and the Yankees won’t change his role until he pitches himself out of the rotation. “The game is smarter than us,” Newman said.
• I mentioned Anderson Feliz in yesterday’s look at the Yankees second base depth, and Newman sounds excited about the young middle infielder. “He’s a good player,” Newman said. “He’s got hitting ability. He’s got power. He can run.” Feliz is probably going to open in Charleston.
• Fu-Lin Kuo, a third baseman out of Taiwan, could be developing into a legitimate prospect. “He looked like it at times last year,” Newman said. Last season Kuo hit .243 in the Gulf Coast League, but that was his first season in the United States, and Newman said it’s hard to make much of those stats because of the significant cultural adjustment. The Yankees saw some flashes of promise at the plate. Kuo is probably going to open the season back in extended spring training, but he’s a player to keep the name in the back of your mind for now.
Pretty sure Pete took that picture of Heathcott. I just found it in the blog archives.
Carmen Angelini needs to be completely remade. He has speed and he has some decent power, but, he just totally screwed up in all facets of the game. I’d like to see him go into a total reworking on everything. He hasn’t improved in 3 years and that’s a pity. He could be good if they can get through to him. Justin Snyder is another that has no clue as to the bare basics.
GB
I have to say it was you who made me aware of the deficiencies in the minor league coaching staffs. You have been talking about that issue for years.
Just like Randy to swoop in and grab the credit.
Tar, those New Englanders are all like that, Never a thought of their own. I think Randy learned that from Pete Abe. a couple of real skunks.
i’ve never been around a coach that didn’t have a philosophy. it’s just human nature to have one.
********
How many hitting coaches have you been around have had as many professional MLB players speak so highly of them?
What about the article Tar linked speaking of Long having a few philosophies but his individualized approach is what makes he so successful?
Stoneburner sure looked like a starter to me!!!!
don’t move him!!!!
GB
Did Randy learn from P.A. or the other way around? One day I have to foward an e-mail exchange between me and P.A. that is hilarious.
Chad-
You’re doing an absolutely terrific job with the blog. This time of year is always a serious lull period. This off season it’s been even more acute given how quiet the yankees have been in terms of moves.
Despite that, you’ve written one interesting post after another. The coverage and insights into the minor leagues is particularly refreshing. No other beat writer in NY comes close to you in that regard. And given how much emphasis the franchise has placed on player development it’s a critical part of the organization’s story.
Tough to understand personnel moves at the major league level without corollary coverage of what’s going on in the minors.
Thanks.
Tar, Randy, being so much older, probably taught Donut Boy. I have a few of those from P.A. myself, but, even my e-mail has banned them because of the language. I, of course, am completely blameless. I was always my polite, sensible self….never an off-color remark or insult.
CB beat me to it, but probably said it better.
Thanks, Chad.
Ill cosign what CB said. Great work this winter Chad.
randy,
I see a lot of downside to having multiple hitting coaches or something extreme as individualized HC.
First, with how many players have spoken so highly of Long why would they give him up for a different individual coach? The players would have to fight over Long to him as “their” coach. So, I think we can rule out coach per player right off the bat.
With several hitting coaches at the end of the day if Long is as good as the players say he is they are just going to want to go to him. Why would they want advice from a lesser hitting coach if Long is there? What if the team says this group work with Coach X and this group with Coach Y. What if the players in group 1 with Coach X get better results than the player in group 2? You are going to end up with the players fighting to get into group 1.
I can get on board with Long having assistants that he trains and conducts the drills he has developed for each player to save him time to work with other players. But, even then you have the problem of him not observing the drills which helps him evaluate. I guess assistants can also help in spot things in the video room.
In specific circumstances where Long can’t get through to a certain player or they are just not meshing, I have no problem with them getting a different coach to try to help out in that specific situation. But for now, I haven’t seen any evidence of players not meshing with Long. Everything is to the contrary.
GB
HAHA. Me Too.
NOT.
This pre-draft assessment of Angelo Gumbs seems like it was written by his father or coach, but it comes from Baseball America so obviously it has some merit:
“Angelo Gumbs has “helium”—and probably several additional elements on the periodic table. Appearing to be constructed from solid marble, the 6-foot, 200-pound Gumbs blasted a 400-foot home run to deep right center in this game, and later added a rocket off the center field fence for a double.
Gumbs plays a capable shortstop for his high school team, but as a professional he profiles defensively as an outfielder. He possesses a plus arm and plus fielding ability. While Gumbs speed is not superlative—about 6.7 to 6.8 in the 60—he is an aggressive and daring base runner.
Gumbs’ bat speed is terrific, and his ability to whip the bat head through the hitting area is stunning. He handles pitches on the middle or outside portion of the plate extremely well. Gumbs was jammed twice Saturday and popped up; that was caused not by a lack of quickness but by Gumbs’ habit of crowding the plate. If he backs off the plate slightly, Gumbs could still handle the middle and away deliveries and his remarkable reflexes will allow him to turn on the inside pitch.”
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/?p=2036
The Yankees paid $300K over slot for him. It’ll be interesting to see if he develops into a legitimate hitter. Having natural bat speed should help his cause.
Have to agree with the posts above about Chad. You are doing a fantastic job despite having so little news to report this winter. Can’t believe you can actually think of multiple posts each day, but you always do.
“How many hitting coaches have you been around have had as many professional MLB players speak so highly of them?”
lgy-
you think if jeter doesn’t like long’s approach he’s going to say that. that’s just not going to be done.
the hitters who have success are going to rave about him. that’s just human nature.
i think if i were kevin long i’d be very careful messing with someone like teixeira. his swing is an odd one , but really effective.
i guess the more we talk about this issue that i don’t think one guy can have an approach for everyone unless he just simply knows enough not to mess with some guys.
that’s a baseball tradition by the way. with some hitters you just don’t mess with them.
“In specific circumstances where Long can’t get through to a certain player or they are just not meshing, I have no problem with them getting a different coach to try to help out in that specific situation.”
Same with a pitching coach. I think the test is whether or not a given talented player is producing up to his potential over a given time horizon like, for example, Joba.
“you think if jeter doesn’t like long’s approach he’s going to say that. that’s just not going to be done.”
IIRC, there was a leak during the Jeter negotiations, suppoosedly from a friend of his, that attributed Jeter’s struggles to having to work with Long instead of Mattingly.
lgy-
who are the hitters who work closely with long and who are the hitters that don’t?
randy l -
There was a story written last season about Kevin Long that talked at length about his approach. So far I haven’t found it, but here is a quote from a Daily News article on Long:
“Long has philosophies that he says he applies differently, depending on each player, but he and others say the key to his success is the way he relates to individuals.”
randy
The solution to multiple coaches is to hire the players father when the come to the majors.
Alot of them are who taught them how to hit.
“A familiar plan for Cito Culver”???
What’s Cashman gonna do??? Wait until he’s old and sucks, then give him a $56 million guarantee???
randy l -
This is the article that I read that impressed me regarding Kevin Long.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10......html?_r=1
Now, that being said, there is no one-size fits all so of course he’s not going to get the same results with all players. But I believe his approach is good.
Did you read my post where I said I think the problem lies with advance scouting? And the general approach the Yankee seem to take (or is that non-approach) against new pitchers/junk ball pitchers?
“What’s Cashman gonna do??? Wait until he’s old and sucks, then give him a $56 million guarantee???”
Relax, $56m probably won’t buy a loaf of bread in 15 years.
IIRC, there was a leak during the Jeter negotiations, suppoosedly from a friend of his, that attributed Jeter’s struggles to having to work with Long instead of Mattingly.
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Lot’s of “friends” talking this off season.
That statement is about as un-Jeter as it gets.
“What if the team says this group work with Coach X and this group with Coach Y. What if the players in group 1 with Coach X get better results than the player in group 2? You are going to end up with the players fighting to get into group 1.”
lgy-
i agree there would be logistical problems with letting hitters have different hitting coaches, but say you have a guy like holliday sign with the yankees. why wouldn’t he be better off keeping his own personal hitting coach who knew his swing.
what you’re saying is it would take some more management to oversee more coaches and i agree it would. i also think it’d be a progressive thing to do.
Long has met with Swish and Alex so far this offseason. Jeter’s next:
“Long has a full pre-camp calendar of visits with his hitters – including Jeter, who is coming off his worst offensive season.”
http://www.northjersey.com/spo....._camp.html
And when I say “is good,” I mean “makes sense.” I have no idea, not having been a professional baseball player whether it is good or not.
Doreen
Did you read my post where I said I think the problem lies with advance scouting? And the general approach the Yankee seem to take (or is that non-approach) against new pitchers/junk ball pitchers
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I think I remember the RS guys talking about that being a problem for them also.
randy
Are the Twins doing that yet?
Maybe the Yankees could get ahead of them if they did that.
Or would that be just more of using their wealth and not doing it the right way?
“Lot’s of “friends” talking this off season.
That statement is about as un-Jeter as it gets.”
Without re-litigating the whole thing, so were some of his agent’s “baffling”" comments about the negotiations, but it was also said, and both are typical of tough negotiations.
“Relax, $56m probably won’t buy a loaf of bread in 15 years.”
—————————————————————————–
Excellent point… Plus, the odds of this moron still being our GM by then has to be short. I’m hoping like hell he doesn’t make it through the season.
Past time for a change.
Agree with CB on the job Chad is doing, and in terms of knowing the minors, he actually talks to the people who know what’s going on, it’s called homework and reporting, something most of the other writers don’t do.
PS. Not knocking most of those reporters, it’s a tough job covering a major league team, to know the minors as well is asking for extra work, when you already have so much to do, that Chad has continued to talk to the right people is a credit to him.
I hope you continue to talk to Mark Newman, and to Nardi as often as possible, as well as Patrick because the Yankee farm system is at a height it has never seen before with the talent they have assembled, the future of Yankees prospects is very bright.
A few things on some of the players you mentioned.
Heathcott started in Charleston in June but that was only because of a hamstring injury, otherwise he would have been up there by May. Also on Slade his #s don’t look good, especially his strikeouts, but one thing should be noted and that is he was playing with a bum shoulder for most of the season, and it got worse in the second half, leading to his strikeouts going way up. He had surgery after the season. In terms of him beginning the year in Charleston there will be a big domino effect with the centerfielders in the system, with he and Abe Almonte both coming off surgeries, they could play the first month repeating before moving up, but that means Sosa is going to have to share time with Slade, and Mason Williams will start in extended, and he might be too advanced for that.
Interesting to see what they do.
SI_JonHeyman
Sounds like #rangers are making some progress with thome. A big lefty hitter would be huge for them half a minute ago via Mobile Web
“Past time for a change.”
Were you calling for a change after the 2009 season? If so, why? If not, why not?
I am still catching up, but Randy spill the beans on what Allen said about Wang’s sinker and why you think Eiland did not have a clue about it. You keep saying everything Eiland said showed he didn’t understand the sinker, but please point out some specifics so everyone can learn something new.
“Were you calling for a change after the 2009 season? If so, why? If not, why not?”
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I judge by the overall, and the overall is FAR short of the Yankees own stated expectations.
Additionally, I would argue those expectations are not that far out of whack given the outrageous resources Cashman has at his finger tips.
“Once a player trusts a guy, it’s really tough to leave him,” said Allard Baird, the Royals’ general manager for much of Long’s time in their system.”
doreen-
that was a good article. the above quote from that article i more what i’m talking about now.
think if say grandson has phenomenal success with long, he’s going to want him to be his coach forever.
but what if he or long moves on from the yankees. no more long for granderson.
that’s what i’m saying isn’t right.
you know what would happen. if granderson and had phenomenal success working to gather and became friends they keep in touch on the sly. that’s the little secret behind this whole one coach for one team. players and coaches do stay in touch when they go to different teams.
fans don’t get it but eiland and hughes may have a bond that transcends team loyalties. they could easily stay in touch as long as they keep it to themselves.
if some team allowed outside coaching and it worked, who knows, it might revolutionize the way players are coached. personally i think it’s dumb to not let an rod pick his own coach.
You evaded the question(s) YNM.
I get that you think Cashman is incompetent, but I’m curious about your p.o.v. after 2009? Would you have wanted him fired at that point?
I’m interested to see what if any changes Rothschild might make with Hughes….not really mechanically but more pitch sequence, frequency, etc….I’m really excited to see Hughes year 2 with no training wheels.
On Cito Culver, unless he is struggling, I just don’t see him being in EST long, unless Angellini is playing great, SS is one of the few places on that team that has a spot open, and I think Culver will be on the team for most of the year if not all of it.
Gumbs is an interesting case because of other players, I wonder if he won’t just stay in EST until SI season starts, but if he impresses, I guess they will find room for him.
With Feliz at second, and all the outfielders who should be on that roster, as well as Gumbs being the youngest of all the kids, I think he has the longest odds of seeing time with Charleston.
FWIW…two Yanks made Verducci’s list of 11 young pitchers who may suffer injury or regression due to innings jumps in 2010 ((Year After/Verducci effect). Huges and Nova.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
Here’s hoping they manage to avoid the curse of the Verducci effect.
randy l -
Wouldn’t surprise me at all that that kind of stuff goes on at all.
What I would hope, though is that enough sticks so that they only needed a “quickie” every now and then.
Oddly, I think it was ARod’s endorsement of Long that made the other players buy into him.
“Additionally, I would argue those expectations are not that far out of whack given the outrageous resources Cashman has at his finger tips.”
Despite MLB not having a salary cap….you still can’t just go out and force players to sign with the Yankees or for other teams to trade you their stars. They have contracts and sometimes nothing is available to buy. The Mets and Cubs have big payrolls as well….where has that gotten them? The Yankees have used their resources in a manner that has allowed them to miss the playoffs 1 time in nearly 2 decades……any franchise and fanbase would sign up for that in a heartbeat.
“I get that you think Cashman is incompetent, but I’m curious about your p.o.v. after 2009? Would you have wanted him fired at that point?”
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I would have had to ignore the previous several years not to want Cashman fired after 2009.
And since 2009, he’s started making the same mistakes all over again. The idiot just made all these same mistakes before the 2008 season, and now 2011 is going to be ’08 all over again.
Past time for a change.
Players from different teams work with differnt coaches over the winter if they choose.
For example, the Melkman is working with Long this winter.
jerkface-
it was three things.
i’m not going to get into it again, but not once did i ever hear eiland mention any one of those three things.
i’m on purpose not mentioning names because as much as it seems that no one but us idiots would pay any attention to this blog the two guys we’re talking about both work together now and i’d hate to have a google search bring up something i said here and get someone fired or reprimanded.
i can say all i want about the twins. they hardly use computers
randy l -
Seriously, though, I do get that it wouldn’t be PC for a guy to be openly working with another coach while the team he’s with has another hitting/pitching coach employed.
“Players from different teams work with differnt coaches over the winter if they choose.
For example, the Melkman is working with Long this winter.”
what!!!!! long isn’t spending all his time helping the yankees ?
blake
blake January 11th, 2011 at 8:38 pm
I’m interested to see what if any changes Rothschild might make with Hughes….not really mechanically but more pitch sequence, frequency, etc….I’m really excited to see Hughes year 2 with no training wheels.
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That is a case in point where it gets to be a gray area as to whether the PC made the difference or was it the maturation process of a young pitcher.
“That is a case in point where it gets to be a gray area as to whether the PC made the difference or was it the maturation process of a young pitcher.”
That’s true. I’m mainly just excited to see how he progresses next year…..we all know pretty much what he needs to do to take his game to that next level.
I want to see Hughes use his changeup more, and more effectively.
randy
randy l. January 11th, 2011 at 8:44 pm
“Players from different teams work with differnt coaches over the winter if they choose.
For example, the Melkman is working with Long this winter.”
what!!!!! long isn’t spending all his time helping the yankees ?
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That’s proof that Long is a good hitting coach.
Look how Melky regressed after he went to the Braves.
Rich,
Yes, along with tightening and more effectively using his curveball. That will turn some of those foul balls on his fastball to swings and misses.
randy
i’m not going to get into it again, but not once did i ever hear eiland mention any one of those three things.
————————————————————————————
All that shows is you need new batteries for your hearing aid.
maine yankees-
i don’t even wear glasses let alone have hearing aids.
once you away from all that heavy equipment in maine who’s need hearing aids?
blake and Rich
Me too. Having a different catcher is also going to have a play into all of this.
” Oddly, I think it was ARod’s endorsement of Long that made the other players buy into him.”
doreen,
that’s great but arod is not the hitter he used to be, but that might simply be the hip and no PEDS.
my conclusion to this discussion is that i think that long is a good hitting coach, but i don’t think it would be a bad idea if some hitters had their own personal hitting coach.
it would also be very nice if the yankees get back up to their 900 run mark.
“I want to see Hughes use his changeup more, and more effectively.”
i second that.
a good change is so good from a catching standpoint in giving you something to work with in calling a game.
randy l -
Well, I would think ARod’s hip has a lot to do with how he’s hitting.
But you have to know that sometimes all the coaching, all the practice, all the best work in the world does not guarantee results.
A lot of players on the Yankees had off years or were injured.
Hopefully it was a blip and not a trend.
No way to know.
If a player is willing to pay his own coach, I don’t know that a team could say anything, so long as that personal coach is not on the Yankees’ field. That would be terribly awkward, to say the least.
And in 2009, with the same hitting coach, the Yankees didn’t have as much trouble scoring runs.
Sometimes you have an off year.
But there is an issue hitting junk stuff and new pitchers.
It’s not even funny anymore.
The Twins have gone to the dark side:
“We just hired a guy whose sole focus is statistical analysis. Gathering information and creating databases. This will be his first year. The guy that we brought in will start creating systems to build a foundation of our own that we can look at.”
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweets.....bermetrics
it was three things.
–
What are the three things? Don’t hold back on us now.
The Twins have gone to the dark side:
–
Does this have anything to do with Cliburn’s firing from the twins?
“Despite MLB not having a salary cap….you still can’t just go out and force players to sign with the Yankees or for other teams to trade you their stars.”
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Anybody can make excuses for any given player and/or transaction.
However, if you look at the overall, it is beyond ridiculous that Cashman has led a team with a $200 million payroll to the point of having only one reliable starter and no reliable setup man.
Doesn’t matter HOW he got us here… The problem is, he did it. And that’s how he will and should be judged.
Gumbs just looks like a player:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdmAVP6ZE7A
show on the 1961 season is on MLB network now….Maris and Mantle
“Does this have anything to do with Cliburn’s firing from the twins?”
stan was the double a manager and the triple a manager for 8 years until 2010.
he had a really good run with the twins. almost every player on the twins went threw him.
stan is obviously really good manager , but sometime in pro ball teams go in different directions.
i doubt it was sabermetrics that caused the twins to make a change.
“If a player is willing to pay his own coach, I don’t know that a team could say anything, so long as that personal coach is not on the Yankees’ field. That would be terribly awkward, to say the least.”
not to mention needing to make a much longer dugout
YankeesNmore January 11th, 2011 at 9:26 pm
“Despite MLB not having a salary cap….you still can’t just go out and force players to sign with the Yankees or for other teams to trade you their stars.”
———————————————————————————————————-
Anybody can make excuses for any given player and/or transaction.
However, if you look at the overall, it is beyond ridiculous that Cashman has led a team with a $200 million payroll to the point of having only one reliable starter and no reliable setup man.
Doesn’t matter HOW he got us here… The problem is, he did it. And that’s how he will and should be judged
————————–
By you, maybe.
But not by the vast majority of others, especially those of us who still remember we were celebrating a Yankees world championship only 12 short months ago with many of these same guys.
I’m beginning to think your three things are nothing but hot air, Randy. What three things were the key to Wang’s sinker? No one is going to get fired for the discussion of mechanics on a yankee blog.
“By you, maybe. But not by the vast majority of others, especially those of us who still remember we were celebrating a Yankees world championship only 12 short months ago with many of these same guys.”
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By me or you or any other fan matters not.
The people who matter are the owners, specifically Hal Steinbrenner. And Hal has stated publicly, and on NUMEROUS occasions, that simply making the playoffs every year is no feather in their cap…
That is the absolute BOTTOM of what they expect for their incredible investment. Hal has also stated that the Yankees EXPECT to be in the World Series every year and to win the championship more often than not.
Those are Hal’s words, not mine. And Hal will be the one who eventually fires Cashman’s sorry @$$. After all, Cashman’s Yankees have made it to the World Series how many times in the last seven years??? I count once.
jerkface-
the first things was seeing a perfect arm slot to throw a sinker.
the second was showing a grip that learned back when he was on billy martin’s yankees with guidry and rhigetti
the third was shortening the stride by a significant amount.
wang instantly was a different pitcher.
the problem that wang had was that he would constantly go back to his long stride without being able to feel that he was doing it . he would swear he wasn’t striding long , but he would be. he constantly needed to be tuned up on stride length.
if you notice wang had his good years under guidry. guidry and neil are really good personal friends. it doesn’t take much of a leap to figure out how wang was able to keep his old connection while being coached by guidry.
when guidry left, that connection wasn’t there anymore.
Maybe at randys age he just remembers there was 3 things but can’t remember what those 3 things were?
“Maybe at randys age he just remembers there was 3 things but can’t remember what those 3 things were?”
all i know is that when i was your age i wasn’t spending my time talking with anyone as old as i am.
“all i know is that when i was your age i wasn’t spending my time talking with anyone as old as i am.”
——-
randy,
I know you don’t get out much so you may not know this, but with the wonder of technology I can school you while I am on the move.
Frankly, I love your blog. I met by chance. But now I am every day and I think I watched everything! Thank you very much anyway!
good luck!
Toilettage paris