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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Yankees organizational depth: Third base

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 11, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post


Making a change at third base would require the Yankees to make a change with the highest paid player in baseball. It will have to happen at some point, but for now, such a change would do more harm than good. Health permitting, that change won’t happen for a long time.

In the big leagues
The Yankees have committed a lot of money and a lot of years to the belief that Alex Rodriguez will remain an elite player for the better part of a decade. He’s had some lower-body injuries the past two years — hip surgery in 2009, a hard-to-define hip/groin problem in the early part of last year, a strained calf that landed him on the disabled list back in August — but indications are that Rodriguez is perfectly healthy this winter. When the season ended, Rodriguez said he was looking forward to falling back into his usual offseason routine, which he was hoping would bring him back to his old self in 2011. Even in a down year, Rodriguez remained a productive hitter last season. With Rodriguez, though, being productive only scratches the surface of what’s expected.

On the verge
The Yankees drafted three third basemen in 2009. Brad Suttle was their fourth-rounder, but injuries have slowed his progress enough that he passed unprotected through this year’s Rule 5 draft. Braedyn Pruitt was their 14th-round pick, but he was released after only a year and a half in the organization. In the 27th round, the Yankees took Brandon Laird, and it’s Laird who’s poised to help the big league club at some point this season. Laird has consistently hit, and 2010 was a breakout season with .281/.336/.482 line between Double-A and Triple-A. Laird has worked in the outfield corners, but he’s primarily a third baseman. If Laird struggles, the Yankees still have Kevin Russo ready to play third base, and Trenton offers three interesting possibilities in Suttle — who seems finally healthy — along with Corban Joseph and possibly regular second baseman David Adams.

Deep in the system
The Yankees used their first three draft picks on infielders last season. Their first two picks were shortstops, but their third-rounder was Tulane third baseman Rob Segedin.  There seems to be a chance Segedin will eventually play the outfield, but third base has been his primary position and that’s where he played late last season in Staten Island. Ahead of him is 2009 sixth-rounder Robert Lyerly, who hit .312/.352/.425 last year in Charleston. Coming up maybe a half step behind Segedin is Fu-Lin Kuo out of Taiwan, who made an impression in extended spring training last year and cracked the Top 50 prospects list over at Pinstripes Plus.

Organizational depth chart
My own rough guess. It’s far too early for the Yankees to settle on who will be where next season.
New York: Alex Rodriguez
Scranton/WB: Brandon Laird
Trenton: Brad Suttle, Corban Joseph
Tampa: Robert Lyerly
Charleston: Rob Segedin

After Rodriguez, the big league depth chart at third base first goes to whoever wins the utility job — probably either Eduardo Nunez or Ramiro Pena — but if Rodriguez is injured and the Yankees need longer-term solution, Laird might have the upper-hand assuming he proves he can hit in Triple-A.

Much like second base, third base should be something of a mix-and-match situation in Triple-A and Double-A. Suttle, Joseph and David Adams could get time at the hot corner in Trenton, while Laird, Russo and Jorge Vazquez could get starts there in Scranton. Catcher J.R. Murphy is also slated to get some third base time in either Charleston or Tampa, and Kuo could get some time in Charleston after (probably) opening in extended spring training. Garrison Lassiter, Kevin Mahoney, Addison Maruszak, Justin Snyder and Doug Bernier also fit into the third base mix as utility types.

Associated Press photo of Rodriguez, headshots of Rodriguez, Laird and Lyerly

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249 Responses to “Yankees organizational depth: Third base”

  1. Erin January 11th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    When the season ended, Rodriguez said he was looking forward to falling back into his usual offseason routine, which he was hoping would bring him back to his old self in 2011

    ***************************
    It’s an odd numbered year, so naturally Alex will have a great season. ;)

  2. Captain Clutch January 11th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    I’m just saying – don’t pooh pooh draft picks and proclaim that they never work out.
    ——-

    I was talking about the Yankees #1 draft picks not picks in general.

  3. LGY January 11th, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    And so giving him $250 mil and moving him back to LF is a good idea why?

    *****

    Because he is the best hitter in baseball.

    I would shift him around like Blake suggests.

    RF most of the Time at home,first base and DH on the road

  4. LGY January 11th, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    Chip

    Where did you come up with this stuff about Carpenter?

  5. MaineYankee January 11th, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    LGY

    You really think a player of his caliber would sign up for that?

  6. Bronx Jeers January 11th, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    Good luck breaking into the Yankees infield.

    See Jeter, D. & Cano, R. for the the minimum required skill set. :wink:

  7. Jason22 January 11th, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    This will mainly be about Alan Horne who I saw mentioned earlier today on here, but first about Torre Tyson, his position is not a new one, he is replacing Jody Reed, who has been the roving coach for a few years now.

    In terms of Alan Horne, someone posted the post from May about him doing the platelet thing, they thought it did not work so he had another surgery in June, but there is good news added to it if there can ever be good news when talking about a shoulder operation.

    When Andrews went in he found the platelets had repaired his shoulder, but his bursa sac was inflamed, the problem all along was a loose bone spur that was digging into his rotatar cuff, this is why even with the operation and everything he never got to 100 percent and was always in pain.

    He said in Nov he feels for the first time healthy since his great 2007 season, so yeah the odds are long, but at least they figured out what was wrong with his arm and finally fixed it to give him a chance this year.

    I have not heard if Christian Garcia has signed with anyone yet, so I still hold out hope that the Yankees will sign him later in the year, and finally put him in the pen to see if he can make it, if his elbow can recover for the second time of course.

  8. blake January 11th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    Pujols could play CF for the Yanks and as long as he hits 4-5 times a game they’d be a better team.

  9. LGY January 11th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    Maine

    I doubt Pujols leaves so it is a fantasy anyway but I tend to think it is all about the money. I think it would take extra to convince Albert but I would bet there is a figure Albert woul aggree to.

  10. blake January 11th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    My biggest thing with Pujols would be the years it would take to.sign him if he hit free agency (which he probably wont). I would load up 5 or 6 years but would be very cautious going farther than that.

  11. MaineYankee January 11th, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    LGY

    He has made his name for himself as a 1B. I would be suprised if he signed to be a utility player.

    Also do you think the Yankeees would pay what he wants and then use him as a utility player.

  12. blake January 11th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    He wouldn’t be a “utility player”, he’d be the best hitter in baseball that plays multiple positions :) He could play 1B some……

  13. upstate kate January 11th, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    I thought part of the reason the Cards got Holliday was to entice Pujols to stay

  14. YankeesNmore January 11th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    What type of organizational depth do the Yankees have at the general manager position???

    Too bad Kevin Towers already left.

  15. blake January 11th, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    Kate,

    They likely did in.part but they still have to show him the money at some point and give him fair market value…..which is a lot if Crawford got 20 million per.

  16. Jerkface January 11th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    No I am not saying I would rather have Trout than Tex (or CC). I’m just saying – don’t pooh pooh draft picks and proclaim that they never work out.

    Chip…defending draft picks? My stars!

  17. LGY January 11th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Maine

    Maybe if the Yankees create a cooler name like the New York Yankees have signed Albert to be their Super Awesome Rotating Position Player he would be more agreeable.

    On the Yankees end I really have no idea to be honest. I assume they would explore the possibility of signing him if he hits the market but I really don’t know how aggressive they would be.

  18. MaineYankee January 11th, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    LGY

    I’m not trying to spoil your fun. I just think you and blake are going a little far on that idea.

    You’re starting to sound like Chip. :lol:

  19. randy l. January 11th, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    “From my simple Yankee fan perspective, the weak link in the coaching staff is gone.

    From Joba, to AJ, and even Phil—there was just too many screw-ups for me.”

    tar-

    i questioned eiland for a long time as it was obvious he had no clue with wang, but i came to think of him as an average pitching coach as time went on. with someone like hughes who was very conventional in his mechanics and with the pitches he threw, eland seemed fine.

    with high maintenance guys like wang, joba, and burnett his results were mixed , so i’m glad someone new is in there though i know very litte about rothschild.

    on another note, why is kevin long getting a free pass though because the yankees did score 56 runs less last year ?

    the yankees are going to have to score close to 900 runs, if not more, of they don’t improve their starting pitching which they not.

    kevin long is going to have to get more out of the hitters than he got last year.

  20. LGY January 11th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    You’re starting to sound like Chip

    ********

    Oh no. I think it may be time for a cup of coffee.

  21. LGY January 11th, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    Maybe a beer actually to try to forget Maine said that :D

  22. MaineYankee January 11th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    LGY

    I thought that would bring you back to reality. :lol:

  23. LGY January 11th, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    Oh jeez. Is Randy going to start hating on K Long now?

  24. austinmac January 11th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Jason22,

    Thanks for the info on Horne. He was a player I followed and hope to again.

  25. randy l. January 11th, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    “Oh jeez. Is Randy going to start hating on K Long now?”

    lgy-

    well. didn’t the offense slump last year?

    plus, you use the word hate to loosely by the way.

  26. Gary January 11th, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    Hopefully Long will get the tream hitting better with RISP. The Yanks can just annoy the S&it out of you with their inability to advance runners and get that run in with less than 2 outs.

    I’d also like to see Mark go to the opposite field occassionally so he can beat that shift.

    Guys I don’t like to see up with less than two outs and RISP, Swisher, Ganderson, Gardner, Posada, and even Derek last year.

  27. Captain Clutch January 11th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    Joelsherman1 With Hoffman retiring (601 svs), Rivera begins new 2-yr deal with #Yankees 42 behind for all-time lead

  28. m January 11th, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    Thanks for the greetings, guys! Hope everyone is doing well.

    Laird is one player I’m anxious to see at the ML level.

  29. LGY January 11th, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    well. didn’t the offense slump last year? plus, you use the word hate to loosely by the way.

    ********

    Certain players were worse in 2010 but I don’t think you can attribute Jeter being old for example to Long. Also there are other factors at play like better pitching league wide. The Yankees still led the league in runs scored. Another factor is the lack of a DH and injuries which hit the 2010 harder than in 2009.

    In terms of using the word hate, I didn’t. I said you were “hating” on Long ;)

  30. blake January 11th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    Maine,

    Ok we’ll stop ;)

  31. Tar January 11th, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    Randy

    Thanks for the Montero report. I was eagerly anticipating your take on him.

    Eiland needed to go.

    As for Long, I have not drank the kool-aid as some have. He has had some great results with the younger set, but it seems that some of the veterans have struggled a little under his watch. Not sure if that’s on him or not.

    But the fact that he is so highly regarded by the people who matter the most (his players)gives me faith that he will be as good as everybody is saying he is.

  32. lounge lizard January 11th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    Alex might only have two more years at 3B before he has to shift to DH for the remainder of his contract. I’m sure Cashman has that in mind and it’s one of the factors that puts a premium on Montero making it as a catcher.

  33. joeman January 11th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    Blanton will earn a total of $17MM in 2011-12…….good luck trying to move this guy without kicking in half his salary …….

  34. Jerkface January 11th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    If Granderson explodes this season, there will be no doubt to the power of Long. he is a motivated coach who seems to create very specific and effective drills for his players and understands their swings.

  35. randy l. January 11th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    so is it impossible for long to do a bad job or are you saying it’s i not possible to prove he’s doing a bad job?

    the thing i notice that someone like eland is bulletproof as long as he has the job and then he’s a dunce once he’s fired.

    i’m just saying it’s a fact the yankees dropped 56 runes last year.

    i think the pitching is going to be in the back of the pack in era if they go into the year the way they are now. the yankees are going to need a lot of offense to make the playoffs

  36. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    Trevor Hoffmann announced his retirement today.

  37. MaineYankee January 11th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    randy

    So if the players underperform you just naturally place the blame at the coaches feet.

    The players don’t share in that I guess.

    If your business is off do you take responsibility for it or is it the fault of the employees?

    Or could it be the result of something out of your control?

  38. Doreen January 11th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    Hi m!

    Happy New Year!

    Missed you. :)

  39. LGY January 11th, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    so is it impossible for long to do a bad job or are you saying it’s i not possible to prove he’s doing a bad job?

    *********

    No. I’m saying you have not provided any proof to the contrary of the numerous articles of players speaking so highly of him.

    Just saying the runs were down are not enough because there were so many factors that influenced that.

  40. LGY January 11th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    I also don’t think Eiland was bullet proof at all.

    I actually thought more Yankee fans disliked Eiland than liked him while he was here.

  41. Jerkface January 11th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    the thing i notice that someone like eland is bulletproof as long as he has the job and then he’s a dunce once he’s fired.

    i’m just saying it’s a fact the yankees dropped 56 runes last year.

    If the process is sound but the results are mixed, maybe its a problem with who is implementing the process?

    Its pretty clear that Long worked extensively with cano and swisher and they both showed an increase in skills in 2010. He works with granderson for 3 days and suddenly Granderson hits .400 vs lefties for the next 2 months and OPS’s .900+ after August 1??

    How is he going to address guys who have physical ailments such as Jeter, A-rod, and Posada and Nick Johnson?

    You are using too simple a measuring stick for Long.

  42. LGY January 11th, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    Gardner too.

  43. YankFanCA January 11th, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    I guess we need these “filler” articles, since we aren’t seeing any action on the pitching front. Sure hope Boy Blunder isn’t going to stand pat with this rotation. Time will tell, I suppose.

  44. pat January 11th, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    My ni-ece watched Alex work out last month and he was running barefoot.

    Consensus of those watching was that it was an effort to strengthen back of the leg muscle groups. Made me think perhaps trying to avoid a repeat of the calf injury.

    m

    Welcome back. Didn’t we raise you better than to disappear without checking in occasionally?

  45. MaineYankee January 11th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Jerkface

    You are using too simple a measuring stick for Long.

    —————————————————————–

    I think he’s using to “short” a measuring stick for Long.

  46. Tar January 11th, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    “I think he’s using to “short” a measuring stick for Long.”

    I agree with his premise. The bottom line results of the offense last year was mixed.

    Subsequently the offense as a whole this year should show improvement, if not, Long should bear the responsibility for it (barring major injuries).

  47. m January 11th, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    Doreen!

    pat,

    :oops:

    And where’s Mr. Nick?

  48. Doreen January 11th, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    randy l -

    I don’t think it is K Long who is the problem.

    I think it is advance scouting.

    The yankees NEVER know what to do with a new pitcher. NEVER. I don’t know what K Long can do about this

    Also, I don’t know what K L ong can do for veterans who don’t ask for help, unless he is specifically told to be aggressive/assertive. The common approach is to walk on egg shells with veterans who have had success. Perhaps that approach has to be changed.

    Also – perhaps Girardi needs to re-think his lineup.

    K Long has done well with players who want his help, ask for it and follow his advice. This tells me the problem isn’t K Long but something else.

    Advance scouting seems to be the culprit. Or the pitching coach. Hear me out. Why not have a pitching expert look at advance video on new pitchers to find the flaws in that pitcher or, rather, the things that might work against him.

    Also, the Yankees have specific difficulty with junk ball pitchers. Now, that might be something K Long could address, but I don’t think so. Someone has to have the task of teachign the Yankees how to hit junk!

    :)

  49. randy l. January 11th, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    “If your business is off do you take responsibility for it or is it the fault of the employees?”

    maine yankee-

    if my business is off at the end of the year it’s all on me.

    i’m the one who hires the employees, teaches them how we do things, and provides the positive or negative reinforcement as needed to hit the goals that are set.

    i’m not impressed with yankees coaching .

    why should i be?

    they’re ok.

    coaching is a very elusive thing. for instance in gold tiger has gone from butch harmon to hank handy and now to sean foley.

    anyone of these coaches is world class , but you can’t mix their approaches. foley for example is a stack and tilt guy who has woods stay on his front side much more than harmon would. haney made tiger flatten his swing.

    the problem in baseball is that the hitting coach is working with12-13 guys and his approach may not work with all styles. a hitter like teixeira for example would have trouble having a hitting coach who emphasized getting to his front side. it juts wouldn’t work with teixeira’s swing.

    but teixeira would be stuck with that guy and it would be frowned upon if he went outside the organization for a hitting coach that was better for his style of hitting.

    so long might be great , but he has a style. i’m of the belief that one size doesn’t fit all.

  50. MaineYankee January 11th, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    m

    I’ve missed the opportunity to needle you when the Fakers I meen Lakers struggle. :lol:

  51. Doreen January 11th, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    Also, I have never thought Eiland was “great.” I thought he was “fine.” I had expected to be able to do more with Hughes, Joba and even IPK, since those are the three pitchers most responsible for him getting the gig in the first place.

    Generally speaking, I don’t grow attached to coaches.

    But I do think K Long does a good job.

  52. LGY January 11th, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    so long might be great , but he has a style. i’m of the belief that one size doesn’t fit all.

    *******

    Why style does Long have?

    All I have seen from
    Long is him working individually with players to address their unique needs. I haven’t seem him institute any team wide philosophy like the Blue Jays for example.

  53. Jerkface January 11th, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    the problem in baseball is that the hitting coach is working with12-13 guys and his approach may not work with all styles. a hitter like teixeira for example would have trouble having a hitting coach who emphasized getting to his front side. it juts wouldn’t work with teixeira’s swing.

    Baseball players can receive instruction outside of the organization in the offseason, but wouldn’t it be hard for a player to get detailed fixes during a season? They spend all their time actually playing and traveling.

    The organization itself would have to hire more people, which I am always in favor of.

  54. Bronx Jeers January 11th, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    My ni-ece watched Alex work out last month and he was running barefoot.

    ———————————————————————————————————–

    Centaurs don’t need shoes.

  55. randy l. January 11th, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    “I actually thought more Yankee fans disliked Eiland than liked him while he was here.”

    lgy-

    as someone who was taking the heat when i would criticize a coach , trust me when i say eiland was getting the same bulletproof treatment long gets now back in 2008 and 2009 . i could look it up , but i don’t feel like taking the time right now

    i can’t tell you how many times i would take on the blog with wang and say eiland had no clue with him and almost everyone would fight back and say eiland was a really good pitching coach

    there is a tendency of most of the people on the blog to support anyone that cashman hires and to see no wrong until the guy is fired.

  56. joeman January 11th, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    # GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    Trevor Hoffmann announced his retirement today.
    ————————————–
    at age of 43 in 09 he had 37 saves with a 1.83 ERA…..he was a good one

  57. MaineYankee January 11th, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    randy

    Maybe the Yankees need to raid coaches from the good teams like the Twins so they can be as succesful as they are.

  58. tyanksfan36 January 11th, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    Tar

    Sorry it took so long to respond with a link. Here is one article saying Eiland helped Wood when he came here, it only took a simple google search

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....yanks.html

  59. LGY January 11th, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    Randy

    Are you saying there is a tendency based on one example in Eiland (who I do not even think you are accurate on)?

  60. randy l. January 11th, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    “The organization itself would have to hire more people, which I am always in favor of.”

    jerkface-

    you’re right that they’d have to hire more people and then they’d have to hire more management to figure out how to have 5-6 hitting coaches around.

    the point i was making before was that the ideas a hitting coach can have can be contradictory from another hitting coach and both can be right thing their system.

    if long is good for granderson or swisher it doesn’t mean he’s good for teixeira or jetted.

    personally i think every hitter should have his own hitting coach if he wants one and that coach should have access to the hitter when the hitter wants it.

  61. MaineYankee January 11th, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    tyanksfan36 January 11th, 2011 at 6:40 pm
    Tar

    Sorry it took so long to respond with a link. Here is one article saying Eiland helped Wood when he came here, it only took a simple google search

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo…..yanks.html

    —————————————————————————————–

    CC also gave him credit for helping him but I don’t remember what pitch it was. They changed the grip which made it a better pitch.

  62. West Coast Yankee Fan January 11th, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    Sabthia, Hughes and Pettitte were a combined 51-18 in 2010. That Eiland’s fault too?

  63. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Maine, I’ve said it a lot of times before. All the money the Yankees tie up in scouting and players, and they scrimp on the coaching system in the minors from Rookie ball to AAA. That’s where they need to fix things…and get rid of Billy Conners and Contreras,

  64. randy l. January 11th, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    lgy-

    you don’t think i was accurate that eiland didn’t have a clue with wang?

  65. MaineYankee January 11th, 2011 at 6:46 pm

    GB7

    Don’t give randy any help in his arguement. :lol:

  66. Michelle B. of Yankee Stadium West January 11th, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    Pat,

    alex doing the barefoot running, is indeed a way to prevent injuries in the lower body. In fact, i have my athlete do barefoot running twice a week. It encourage all the muscles in the lower leg to work instead of some them. Too much of it can cause mechanic issues, but if he’s doing as part of a routine, then i think its an amazing tool for keeping the gate and mechanics in line.

  67. LGY January 11th, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    Randy

    That people liked Eiland so much.

    Is there another coach or person that follows this tendency you think exists or is Eiland your only example?

  68. MaineYankee January 11th, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    randy

    you don’t think i was accurate that eiland didn’t have a clue with wang?

    ——————————————————————–

    Is that based on fact or your usual bias?

  69. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    Maine, I’ve been saying that 2 years before Randy had twin fever.

  70. ltl January 11th, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    Has anyone given any thought to the following scenario: Joba is not a starter going into arbitration hearings. Cash gets off cheaply and then asks Joba to come to camp with maybe a chance to start?

  71. MaineYankee January 11th, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    GB7

    I know you have. I just didn’t think randy needed any help. He does well on his own.

  72. Doreen January 11th, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    Also, any coach can only have so much influence on the outcome. Ultimately, it’s up to the player.

  73. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    Now, I’ll go along with Randy. He never would have been my pick to the Yankee pitching coach like Gil Patterson or Mike Marshall. I’d also get rid of Harkey and bring in a teacher and a lifelong bullpenner…like Sparky Lyle.

  74. Doreen January 11th, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    randy l

    I think no one had a handle on how to best rehab Wang from he particular injury he had (the Lisfranc). I think they got all kinds of advice, but ultimately were winging it.

    That’s not the same as not having a clue about Wang.

    That they wanted him to have more strikeouts is another issue altogether.

  75. randy l. January 11th, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    “CC also gave him credit for helping him but I don’t remember what pitch it was. They changed the grip which made it a better pitch.”

    maine yankee-

    you get it don’t you that almost all coaches have an approach they teach. they try to be flexible and sometimes just don’t mess with some guys at all, but they have things they believe in. someone like long might push something that simply doesn’t mesh at all with someone like teixeira. it’s not that long’s tip instruction is wrong. it just doesn’t work for teixeira say.

    back to golf. if there was a baseball hitting coach like sean foley, you’d see a whole team hitting off their front side with very little weight shift. it would work well for some but not for everyone. some hitters would do better ,but not everyone would.

    more hitting coaches would not be a bad idea since there are a lot of hitters on a team.

  76. Bronx Jeers January 11th, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    Trevor Hoffman’s case for the Hall of Fame could be interesting.

    Many will say that a closer has to do more than close a gazillion regular season games. Hoffman’s got 13 postseason innings. By comparison Mo’s got about 140. Then again is it Hoffman’s fault he played for a bad team for so long?

  77. Tar January 11th, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    Ty

    I am still sceptical that Eiland was the direct cause for Wood doing so well as a Yankee. But I could be wrong. If so, good for him. I wish him no ill will.

    Regardless though, too many screw-ups on his watch. Notably Joba, AJ and Wang.

  78. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    Doreen, I’l just not sure that some of these coaches are teachers, though. That’s one thing that has bothered me about the coaching staffs in Charleston and Tampa. Not really sure that they all believe in the same basic approaches to pitching and hitting, either. Fielding is the main thing throughout the system that gets ignored.

  79. 108 stitches January 11th, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    GB-7

    Sparky seems content with retirement. I wouldn’t mind seeing Jeff Nelson as a bullpen coach.

  80. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2011 at 6:59 pm

    Tar, Kerry Wood was the one that mentioned Rivera when talking about the biggest change in him, as far as preparation, but, mainly with his cutter.

  81. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    Last that I heard last season was that Lyle was managing in the independent leagues on the east coast.

  82. LGY January 11th, 2011 at 7:02 pm

    randy,

    Did you know that after Tex struggled at the beginning of the season Long had him open his stance more?

    And just a few months earlier in the offseason, Long had Swisher close his stance?

  83. Bronx Jeers January 11th, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    I thought Lyle was managing an independent team in NJ. And somehow I get the impression that he’s not such a big fan of the Yankees.

  84. randy l. January 11th, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    “That’s not the same as not having a clue about Wang.”

    doreen-

    the guy who flat out , no doubt, singlehandedly taught wang his sinker in a few days time period told me while sitting on the grass exactly how he converted wang to a sinkerball pitcher.

    eiland never said one thing i ever read that was even remotely close to what wang was taught that made his sinker sink.

    my take on eland is that he does “conventional “well and doesn’t do “creative” well.

    i think with guys like wang, joba, and burnett a pitching coach ho’s creative would do better.

    in other words, a different approach for each guy.

    in eland’s defense, a sinker is not an easy pitch to teach. very few guys can actually throw the sinker.

  85. Tar January 11th, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    Gb

    Thanks. It’s what I suspected.

    Randy

    “Long has philosophies that he says he applies differently, depending on each player, but he and others say the key to his success is the way he relates to individuals.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....hings.html

  86. Doreen January 11th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    GB7 -

    I was talking about the ML coaches. Minor league is a different story. Those guys need to be the best – need to be able to really teach. And the Yankees can afford to do this – there’s no excuse. This is one thing I’ve always been in line with Randy on. this is where the Yankees need to use their dollars.

  87. MaineYankee January 11th, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    randy

    If you have a hitting coach with a radical approach like Charlie L( don’t know how to spell the last name) I think it is more of a problem than one like Long.

    Wasn’t it George Brett that couldn’t hit like Charlie taught?

    If so he did well just the same.

  88. Doreen January 11th, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    randy l -

    As far as the sinker goes, I defer to your knowledge of the situation.

    In terms of rehab from the Lisfranc, I just think no one really knew what the best approach was.

    I have always agreed with you that once the season started, they missed something.

    I think Eiland was fine. Nothing to rave about. Mostly did no harm, but did not excel either. There were stories that he tweaked this and that, and had success. But I had expected much more from him with regard to Hughes, Joba and IPK specifically, because as I said, they were the reason he was promoted to begin with.

    But, the bullpen management between Eiland an Girardi has been excellent.

  89. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    Doreen, you can’t give Randy credit for that. He stole it from me….that rat.

    I agree with you, though. NYYs need to get the best teachers in the business…teach and correct. They need hitting coaches, pitching coaches, catching instructors, infield, hitting and bullpen coaches at every level. They have a half a billion dollars worth of talent in the system and cut corners on teaching.

  90. randy l. January 11th, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    “Did you know that after Tex struggled at the beginning of the season Long had him open his stance more?”

    lgy-

    it doesn’t matter if a coach gets singular successes with tips or mechanical changes. it’s how it all comes together in the end.

    i like what jerkface said about having more coaching. that’s really the solution. you like things that are progressive. having just one hitting coach is as old fashioned as it comes.

    and as far as having more coaches on all levels, gb7 is right when he says there aren’t enough coaches on nor league teams. that’s exactly how gardner got to the majors and couldn’t bunt. there was no coach who spent time with him everyday.

    even at triple a they have three guys most of the time, a manager, a pitching coach, and a hitting coach. there simply isn’t enough time in the day for three guys to teach 25 guys how to play baseball. at least five coaches at the triple a level would be much better.

  91. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    Charlie Lau was the first to teach letting go of the bat with one hand and later taught it to Walt Hriniak.

  92. MaineYankee January 11th, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    randy

    Through all this turmoil about how Wang was handled the one thing you keep saying that just has no legs is that Eiland didn’t say how he taught certain pitchers.

    That’s different than whether he can or not.

    I don’t base much on what I hear in the media because it usually has an agenda hooked to it.

    Also teams don’t give out info readily on how they do things.

  93. LGY January 11th, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    randy,

    I didn’t post that to show sigular success. I posted that to contradict your assertions about Long having a single philosophy that may not help everyone.

    Do you have any proof of a single philosophy from Long?

  94. MaineYankee January 11th, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2011 at 7:14 pm
    Charlie Lau was the first to teach letting go of the bat with one hand and later taught it to Walt Hriniak.

    —————————————————————————————–

    Wasn’t Hriniak with the RS at one time.

    I seem to recall they had some that didn’t like his approach.

    Boggs may have been one.

  95. pat January 11th, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    Michelle

    Thanks for the explanation.

    He was running sprints shoed and then went barefoot to run distance when she saw him.

  96. randy l. January 11th, 2011 at 7:20 pm

    “Wasn’t it George Brett that couldn’t hit like Charlie taught?”

    maine yankee-

    no, lau made brett.

    brett was his guy .

    one thing did happen if i remember right.

    when lau left for the white sox, brett had his best year. i think that was because sometimes when a guy has takes all the info he can from a coach, when he’s on his own and not being watched every pitch, the player can just let it go without all the analysis.

    but i don’t think brett would have been brett without lau.

  97. randy l. January 11th, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    “Wasn’t Hriniak with the RS at one time.

    I seem to recall they had some that didn’t like his approach.

    Boggs may have been one.”

    i remember that being correct.

  98. MaineYankee January 11th, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    randy

    I couldn’t remember which way it was with Brett.

    I do know that some just couldn’t use Lau’s approach.

    He was a bit controversial because of how different his approach was.

  99. BoJo January 11th, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    Maine–

    I remember hearing in the 2009 playoffs that Eiland helped CC with his change-up, giving iut more fade away from a RH. It made a big difference.

    Randy–

    I also remember Wang giving credit to a pitching coach other than Eiland but can’t recall the name. Did he also go to Rays?

    I agree that Eiland was not the right coach for Joba, AJ, and others…and am looking forward to seeing what Rothschild can do. I know the Cubs featured power pitching and high strikeouts under him, and hope he brings that to the team.

  100. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    Maine, hriniak, at one time was Fisk’s back-up and then started moving around. Lau taught Hriniak his way when Lau managed him in the minors.

  101. BoJo January 11th, 2011 at 7:28 pm

    The interesting thing tha tI got out of this article was that it might be best for Laird to start the season at SWB and play 3B full-time until ARod gets injured. Then the team will have a bat ready to go for replacement.

    I was thinking Laird should break with the team as a utility player, but perhaps it would be better if he did not.

  102. randy l. January 11th, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    “Do you have any proof of a single philosophy from Long?”

    lgy-

    i’ve never been around a coach that didn’t have a philosophy. it’s just human nature to have one.

    baseball is really behind the times on coaching. i think the benefits of it being simple logistically to have one coach are outweighed by the benefits of each guy having aces to his own hitting coach.

    i think the real issue here is how diverse swing thoughts are in hitting. i don’t think any one guy no matter how brilliant should guide 13-15 guys.

    so, it”s not that i think long is bad. i just think he’s limited. but then i’d think any one hitting coach was limited , no matter how good.

    if a player wants to go outside their organization for advice sometimes teams allow it, but usually they don’t allow it.

  103. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    Laird needs a little more seasoning with his hitting and fielding. he needs to become more consistant. He’s read hot for a 2 month stretch and then goes ice cold for a month. It’s been that way since he started. One thing, though….he always produces runs.

  104. CB January 11th, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    “but i don’t think brett would have been brett without lau.”

    No he wouldn’t have. Brett was Lau’s star pupil, so to speak.

    At the same time, Brett wouldn’t have been Brett if he’d adopted Lau’s entire philosophy whole cloth.

    Brett never altered his swing plane to hit down at the ball. I’d guess Lau was fine with that though. He probably though Brett was talented enough to not need to.

    Changing swing planes was an area where Lau and Hriniak became too ideological, IMO.

    It’s interesting also – because Lau and Hriniak are two explicit examples of how what’s now considered “statistics” and sabermetrics” was just part of a particular philosophy of hitting. Lau’s observations and hitting approach was based on his observation of BABIP.

  105. randy l. January 11th, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    maine yankee-

    CB really knew his charley lau. just get him going about launch position and you’ll see :)

  106. Doreen January 11th, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    I love

    Bah – bip!

    I love saying Bah – bip!

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

  107. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    Hal McCrae was another that became a completely different player under Lau. Seems that Al Cowens and Amos Otis copied that style, but, willie Wilson never did.

  108. LGY January 11th, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    :arrow:

  109. randy l. January 11th, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    gb7-

    don’t forget willie mays aikens. i can vouch he let go just like lau taught because one day he hit me in the back of my head with his bat so hard i was seeing sparkles.

    mcrae, cowens, and aikens were all on that same team so i got to see them up pretty close.

    the guy on that team who could really hit though was al oliver and he held on with both hands and was all over the plate which was the opposite of what lau taught.

    one day i heard oliver swear that he looked breaking ball all the time and reacted if it was a fastball. no one does that. he was that quick with the bat.

    personally, i really liked how you could drive the ball the opposite way with lau’s approach.

  110. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    randy, Al Oliver should have been in the HOF years ago. I always drooled about imagining him in pinstripes. What a beautiful swing. Always thought he should have taught hitting.

  111. MaineYankee January 11th, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    randy

    don’t forget willie mays aikens. i can vouch he let go just like lau taught because one day he hit me in the back of my head with his bat so hard i was seeing sparkles.

    ——————————————————————————————

    Maybe he did that to get you to stop telling him how good the Twins were at developing pitchers.

  112. GreenBeret7 January 11th, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    OUCH!!! LMAO

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