Day by day, the same old story carries new weight
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 13, 2011 
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Technically, the Andy Pettitte story did not change last night. There was a brief report that Pettitte had made a final decision, but Brian Cashman quickly explained that it was all a misunderstanding. The Yankees had not heard anything new. The story was — and is — exactly as it was at the end of season.
Here’s the story: Pettitte has told the Yankees to move forward as if he won’t be pitching in 2011. He’ll let them know if anything changes, and last we heard from Pettitte himself, he was still trying to make up his mind.
The story hasn’t changed, but the situation is different day by day.
Every day that goes by with that same old story is another day in which Pettitte has not changed his mind. It’s one less day for Pettitte to call the Yankees and tell them he’s coming back. It’s one less day for Pettitte to add some bulk to the Yankees thin rotation.
With every day that passes, the possibility of a Pettitte retirement grows a little more real. The discussion becomes a little less theoretical.
The Pettitte story is the same today as it was yesterday. The only difference is that yesterday there were 33 days until pitchers and catchers report to spring training. Today there are only 32.
Associated Press photo
32 days seems close. That’s great.
What’s not great is that they’re still at least 1 pitcher away from even a very questionable rotation. I say they need a lefty (Francis) but do they just go out and get the best arm available? I don’t even know who that is. They all seem like poor choices for a playoff hopeful.
Javy over Joba last season seemed like a no-brainer. Now it’s looking like a non-brainer.
Good morning all. Chad-terrific writing over the last couple of weeks in the face of non-activity by the Yankees.
Sounds like Pettitte might come back at some point this season on a prorated contract if he’s still willing, able, and ready to pitch and if the Yankees are in the race.
It’s hard for me to believe that Soriano would sign a one year deal and test the FA market again when closers Bell, Broxton, Franklin, and possibly Lidge and Francisco Rodriguez [if options not picked up] come on the market. With his history of elbow surgery and further elbow injury that would be a risky proposition.
Andruw Jones is already getting 15M over 6 years from the Dodgers from the last bloated contract he signed with Boras as his agent. He has no incentive to produce.
Only 32 days ’til pitchers and catchers report? Awesome.
Time flies.
Andruw Jones is already getting 15M over 6 years from the Dodgers from the last bloated contract he signed with Boras as his agent. He has no incentive to produce.
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Funny that you mention ‘Andruw Jones’ and ‘bloated’ in the same sentence. I’ll pass on him
Sign Damon.
Sign Damon.
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I concur. The popular belief seems to be that the bench bat we pick up NEEDS to be right-handed, but Damon hasn’t had significant splits against LHP. He may not have slugged to the same extent as Jones last year, but we know how he can hit in Yankee Stadium. He’s IMO the better option, easily
blake-
I think I’d rather sign Damon as a pinch hitter/ occasional DH also and use Golson as a late inning defensive replacement. However he’ll be looking for more playing time than the Yankees are likely able to give him.
Tom Gorzellany is a lefty and the Cubs might look to deal him. Does he offer more than Francis?
Are there some arb-eligible players that clubs might look to trade rather than sign? Leo Nunez of the Marlins?
“Tom Gorzellany is a lefty and the Cubs might look to deal him. Does he offer more than Francis?”
IMO, yes he does.
Heyman, Trader,
I agree. I think getting the better overall player and the player most capable of playing every day if injury occurred trumps whether they are right or left handed. The thing with Damon is would he accept a reduced role? I don’t know if he would or not but if so then its an easy decision to me…..sign him up.
I agree. I think getting the better overall player and the player most capable of playing every day if injury occurred trumps whether they are right or left handed. The thing with Damon is would he accept a reduced role? I don?t know if he would or not but if so then its an easy decision to me?..sign him up.
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I wonder if Damon is headed towards the direction of the DH types like Jim Thome/Jermaine Dye who have produced, but got little to no attention in free agency. It seems to me like he’s well on his way…Detroit really gave him a gift last year with that 7M contract. The only teams that seem interested are offering limited playing time. If it comes down to the Yanks/Rays, why wouldn’t he want to go back to the familiar place (and probably a little extra cash)?
Good morning folks.
I think thinking about the 4th OFer as a potential everyday OFer (in case of injury) is a mistake.
We can always trade for an everyday OFer if an injury occurs. Players that could play everyday might not translate well into bench players (e.g., Winn). They are not going to get a lot of ABs with the Yankees, and need to do a few small things well–defense, OBP vs LHP, getting coffee and donuts fro regulars, etc)
Im just gunna mope all day. :sigh:
The thing is that the Yanks are looking for a bench player. A 4th outfielder/pinch hitter that can do some late inning damage.
I think Jones is just a better complement to Jorge’s LHB. And yeah he’s gotten a little soft in the middle but he’s never really been a thin guy. He’s built like Melky. He’s also got 10 Gold Gloves on his mantle. He’s obviously not the same fielder that won all those awards but there’s got to be something left in that glove.
I would be happy with Damon, but the part-time role may not work for him. He is a few years away from 3,000 hits and potential Hall of Fame consideration, and playing part-time would not help unless he has a few more rings to add to his resume.
I think Damon provides some intagible things that Jones can’t……plus you know a bit more what you’re getting with him. The big question is if he’d accept the role and how he would adjust to it.
# Bronx Jeers January 13th, 2011 at 9:12 am
32 days seems close. That’s great.
What’s not great is that they’re still at least 1 pitcher away from even a very questionable rotation. I say they need a lefty (Francis) but do they just go out and get the best arm available? I don’t even know who that is. They all seem like poor choices for a playoff hopeful.
Javy over Joba last season seemed like a no-brainer. Now it’s looking like a non-brainer.
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It’s only a no brainier because Javy fell off the map. I’m sure it was a surprise to them that it happened.
Does anyone know what teams (other than the Rays) have expressed interest in signing Damon? Or if any team sees him in a full-time role?
Damon’s chances at 3,000 hits are fairly remote. If he wants to keep that dream alive then more power to him but he’s about 450 hits shy and would need regular work and good performance for 3 more years or to play for several more years to get there.
“Damon’s chances at 3,000 hits are fairly remote”
But nowhere near as remote as his HOF chances.
I read in the Dallas newspaper that the Rangers offered Holland in a prospective Garza trade.
I doubt the Yankees could get him, but he is only “contending” for their fifth starter position so they may feel they have some starter surplus.
Erin January 13th, 2011 at 9:14 am
Only 32 days ’til pitchers and catchers report? Awesome.
Time flies.
—-
My thoughts exactly. I’ll be unable to watch the Spring Training games before I know it.
Mell,
Yea I don’t see him getting in the HOF but I believe every other guy (besides Palmero) with 3,000 hits is in. That and 300 wins are still pretty much lock milestones unless PEDs are suspected.
Go figure. Upwards of $30M saved from Lee and Pettitte money and neither Soriano or Zambrano can be pursued.
Too many things have to go right with the starting rotation as presently constructed with the chance of an overworked bullpen.
It shapes up to be a stormy ride. Lots on the shoulders of offensive production.
Lots on the shoulders of offensive production.
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Maybe that’s why K.Long is rackin up the frequent flier miles this winter
Go figure. Upwards of $30M saved from Lee and Pettitte money and neither Soriano or Zambrano can be pursued.
Too many things have to go right with the starting rotation as presently constructed with the chance of an overworked bullpen.
It shapes up to be a stormy ride. Lots on the shoulders of offensive production.
— I agree 108 ..
Mell January 13th, 2011 at 9:31 am
“Tom Gorzellany is a lefty and the Cubs might look to deal him. Does he offer more than Francis?”
IMO, yes he does.
————————————————————–
he’s making $800 thousand…they might just hang onto him
Concerned Citizen
well at least we will be able to hear about the ST games, even if we can’t watch them
Damon won’t work as a fourth outfielder (we don’t need a DH). He’s a huge liability in the field, if someone gets hurt he can’t do the job. That’s all we need is Damon and his noodle arm out there while Ellsbury and Crawford, etc., run wild.
how easy would this had been if Lee just signed with the Yankees……we be talking about huge favorites to win the WS
heyman_sux January 13th, 2011 at 10:19 am
Lots on the shoulders of offensive production.
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Maybe that’s why K.Long is rackin up the frequent flier miles this winter
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And you know what they say…hitting wins championships…(rollseyes)
West Coast Yankee Fan January 13th, 2011 at 10:20 am
Damon won’t work as a fourth outfielder (we don’t need a DH). He’s a huge liability in the field, if someone gets hurt he can’t do the job. That’s all we need is Damon and his noodle arm out there while Ellsbury and Crawford, etc., run wild
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you and I think a like….don’t know if thats good or bad, lets find out…
Mell January 13th, 2011 at 10:08 am
“Damon’s chances at 3,000 hits are fairly remote”
But nowhere near as remote as his HOF chances.
+++++++++++++++++++
If Damon were able to get 3,000 hits, why wouldn’t he be voted into HOF?
Gut feeling, but I suspect Damon used PEDs too…he was on Oakland team that used them (Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Miguel Tejada, and Eric Chavez) and then Boston in the Manny/Ortiz years. Absolutely no proof, just a hunch based on his teammates, and his closeness to them.
Chad, I join in those who sing your praise for coming up with topics when things are so slow. Very impressive.
Haven’t we all learned you can’t slug your way to success? Teams like the DBacks have five starters and are looking to add more.The Yankees have three or arguably, but doubtfully, four starters. Pitching is and has always been the key.
Cashman has to find innings. Mitre can’t provide them. He has never pitched over 150 innings and that was long ago. At this point, their primary bullpen need will not be an EIG but a second long man to eat up middle innings.
I like to be an optimist, but look at the pitching from August 1 until the end of the season. This years pitching is at best, no better, and at without Wood, likely worse.
I fear they won’t even sign a Garcia type.
We will need lefties, please Andy come back. . Boston will have at least 5 in their new lineup; crawford, gonzalez, ellsbury, jd drew, varitek (will he ever go away?) . I’m probably missing more from their team.
Damon had a + UZR last year in the national park that is Detroits stadium. Not that I totally buy UZR as a stat but I do think Damon is much less of a defensive liability than he’s made out to be. He’s not great but he’s not horible either as some suggest and would be fine out there on an occasional basis or as a stop gap until someone got back from injury……
If Damon were able to get 3,000 hits, why wouldn?t he be voted into HOF?
Gut feeling, but I suspect Damon used PEDs too?he was on Oakland team that used them (Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Miguel Tejada, and Eric Chavez) and then Boston in the Manny/Ortiz years. Absolutely no proof, just a hunch based on his teammates, and his closeness to them.
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I think that’s a very dangerous assumption to make and part of the reason guys like Jeter get upset when people refer to the past 15-20 years as the steroid era. I mean, the Yankees had PED users like Pettitte, Clemens (prob), Knoblauch….do you get the gut feeling Jeter used PEDs by association? I don’t mean to criticize you over this, its just your gut feeling. But it does bother me to an extent, especially when heard through media outlets, that so-and-so may have used PEDs cause he knew/was around ‘this user’.
Left-handed or not I prefer Damon. He is a solid player and teammate. I am not sure about Jones on either account.
When we start assuming that anybody that did well in the last 15 years was on steroids……then its time to just let them all in the HOF, because its just not fair to the guys that were clean nor for the guys who weren’t to be singled out.
Heymen sux–
Like it or not, every player from this era will have to face the questions…guilt by association.
I can’t even excuse Jeter from the possibility of using greenies to stay alert.
And I am not saying that Damon did, but in talking about his HOF chances, I think it is a question that will come up…and because of the teammates he played with, I think he will be suspected of doing so.
heyman_sux January 13th, 2011 at 10:32 am
If Damon were able to get 3,000 hits, why wouldn?t he be voted into HOF?
Gut feeling, but I suspect Damon used PEDs too?he was on Oakland team that used them (Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Miguel Tejada, and Eric Chavez) and then Boston in the Manny/Ortiz years. Absolutely no proof, just a hunch based on his teammates, and his closeness to them.
______
I think that’s a very dangerous assumption to make and part of the reason guys like Jeter get upset when people refer to the past 15-20 years as the steroid era. I mean, the Yankees had PED users like Pettitte, Clemens (prob), Knoblauch….do you get the gut feeling Jeter used PEDs by association? I don’t mean to criticize you over this, its just your gut feeling. But it does bother me to an extent, especially when heard through media outlets, that so-and-so may have used PEDs cause he knew/was around ‘this user’
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Chad Curtis…among others
blake January 13th, 2011 at 10:36 am
When we start assuming that anybody that did well in the last 15 years was on steroids……then its time to just let them all in the HOF, because its just not fair to the guys that were clean nor for the guys who weren’t to be singled out.
+++++++++++
I agree.
Haven’t we all learned you can’t slug your way to success? Teams like the DBacks have five starters and are looking to add more.The Yankees have three or arguably, but doubtfully, four starters
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My math must be off…I count 2..(yes TWO)..starters (and thats IF Hughes puts it together this year)….counting on AJ being good AJ is plain foolish – and even if he goes back to being regular AJ he’s still a 500 pitcher…without pettite the yankees have 2 starters they can count on..and look at what 2 starters got them from July to October last year..
Cashman needs to go January 13th, 2011 at 10:39 am
++++++++++++++
Yep–your math is off.
A 500 starter still eats innings and is a valuable part of a play-off team.
It doesn’t matter how good our bullpen is . . It’ll be taxed by September
The only purposes Damon can serve is as a part time DH, occasional pinch hitter and pinch runner.
If the team was holding a sizeable lead in the 9th inning, he could be stationed in LF with Jeter and A-Rod shaded halfway to the wall to get his weak cutoff throws.
Bagwell is being accused without a shred of evidence…..and Kevin Brown failed to get 5% to stay on the ballot also with no tangible evidence that he used. The writers have gone from waving pom poms during the summer of 98 to essentially carrying out witch hunts where if someone is suspected of being a witch then they must in fact be a witch and therefore burned at the stake for it.
108,
Isn’t that what a 4th outfielder normally does?
4th outfielder/bench player I mean.
# joeman January 13th, 2011 at 10:23 am
how easy would this had been if Lee just signed with the Yankees……we be talking about huge favorites to win the WS
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Probably looking at the best rotation in baseball if Lee was a Yankee
BoJo January 13th, 2011 at 10:40 am
Cashman needs to go January 13th, 2011 at 10:39 am
++++++++++++++
Yep–your math is off.
A 500 starter still eats innings and is a valuable part of a play-off team
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But this 500 pitcher is AJ Burnett….not someone I would call a innings eater…unless you’re OK with 6 innings of 8 runs….
also without pettite who is the 4th… innings eating starter? Nova?… aka Mr. 4 innings and i’m done
I admit I’m a bit pessimistic but please take off those rose colored glasses….the yankees have 2 pitchers they can count on if no other moves are made….this isn’t the NL West where you can be competitive with CC, Hughes and sludge
I see two possibilities to explain Pettitte’s behavior. He’s holding out for maximum bucks, or he has decided to retire, but won’t go public, so that the Yankees have better leverage in trades, free agents. It shouldn’t take this long to decide.
We offered Lee too much money and his wife preferred the nice, polite fans in Philly………
Among the many problems of the steroid era is guilt by association. It’s not as severe as the retroactive penalty of banning play from Cooperstown for doing something that was not against baseball rules and had no penalties whatsoever associated with it at the time the substances were used.
We know by all evidence and statements and publications on the issue that illegal amphetamine use was rampant in baseball for decades and yet for some reason that’s been deemed irrelevant.
Blake, you are absolutely right in pointing out the hypocrisy of the media members who were cheerleaders and in ’98 and have now become the “conscience” of Cooperstown in harshly judging those who THEY lionized just about a decade earlier.
As for the Yankees pitching. I would take a flier on Young/Francis or Garcia as a starter and Chris Ray as a cheap reliever. Low risk and plenty of upside.
My guess is Cashman is thinking/hoping/guessing/assuming arbitration $$$ may put some decent starters on the market.
I wouldn’t be opposed to bringing Damon back, but if they are going to upgrade the bench with a bat that can’t field why not just bring back Marcus Thames?
Frankg–
Or his body is still worn down from last year, and he is not physically ready to go at it again.
I’m with Cashman needs to go regarding AJ. Hoping that AJ will be mediocre rather than terrible reminds me of the gambler’s prayer: Lord, let me break even. I need the money.
ok so like i’ve been saying, andy will be back in june…we’ll muddle though till then and it’ll be fine. next up is getting soriano without giving up the pick and get a 4th OFer
Cashman needs to go January 13th, 2011 at 10:49 am
+++++++++++++
First, 6 innings of 8 run ball is still 6 innings off the total that needs to be accounted for…so yes, it does count.
But more importantly, I believe 2010 was a bad outlier for Burnett possibly because of personal problems. He was able to dominant at times before the craziness started…so I do think he will be better.
Also, Nova will be fresh coming into this year…a little stronger and older at 24…and I would expect him to be able to do better than last year and give us 5 good innings per start.
And I can live with Mitre or Noesi or another AAA pitcher for a few months at #5–until a better option appears.
While I would like them to sign Bruce Chen, I am not as pessimistic as you.
I’d like to hear less about the Pettitte story and more about the Yankees story.. Why does Brian Cashman always seem to have tunnel vision? There is no worst case scenario in his thinking.
I cannot believe there was no backup plan for lee and/or pettitte. What happens if one of the other starters go down? It’s nice to think that they’ll all stay healthy but that’s not realistic thinking. I look foward to this season less and less… and this is the first season I’ve ever felt like that.
On paper Damon looks OK, but if the Yanks sign him being the Yankees they will be tempted to give too many of Gardner’s innings to him. I think Jones would be used more wisely.
On paper Damon looks OK, but if the Yanks sign him being the Yankees they will be tempted to give too many of Gardner’s innings to him. I think Jones would be used more wisely.
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Damon doesnt answer the question of who will back up Swish in RF.
You cannot have Damon AND Golson on the team, with a back up catcher and 1 utility IF. You need two guys that can back up 2b/ss/3b.
“Bagwell is being accused without a shred of evidence…..and Kevin Brown failed to get 5% to stay on the ballot also with no tangible evidence that he used”
Bagwell simply got screwed.
Brown? I think he got Lou Whitaker-ed. I don’t think anyone thought he was a roider, but I’m not sure anyone thought at all. I don’t think Brown is an HOF’er (I do think Whitaker is) but for him not to get 5% is inexplicable.
Let me put it this way Casahman sux–
I hope that your life is so perfect that the only thing you have to complain and worry about is the Yankee rotation. Otherwise, why spend valuable time getting upset about something you have no control over? We all just have to watch and wait.
Winter and spring are the seasons of eternal optimism for baseball fans everywhere…following your favorite team should lift your spirit, not depress it.
“Go figure. Upwards of $30M saved from Lee and Pettitte money and neither Soriano or Zambrano can be pursued.
Too many things have to go right with the starting rotation as presently constructed with the chance of an overworked bullpen.
It shapes up to be a stormy ride. Lots on the shoulders of offensive production.”
108 stitches-
good post. right to the point.
it goes without saying that cashman gambled all on lee and lost .
since there are about 90 pitchers capable of being top three on a mlb baseball team, it’s rather a weak excuse that nothing has been available.
cashman knew pettitte could retire at any time for two or three years. he knew that vazquez wasn’t working out halfway into the 2010 season. he knew he had thrown away joba as a starter. cashman knew he needed a really good starter and he went all in on lee and had no back up plan.
so this pitching thinness is on him. i actually have no problem if cashman comes out in a definitive way and says the yankees are in a jam with pitching and that he is going to commit to the young pitching and hope the offense can carry the yankees while the kids are gaining experience picking in the major leagues.
one alternative is to trade a young pitching prospect who may be good two years to three years from now for a veteran who will be decent now. i understand not wanting to do this, but be definitive about it.
my complaint with cashman is that he talks development , but in reality he trades most of it away when the pressure to win now gets to him.
for example, the yankees would be better off if they had austin jackson in center and kennedy in the rotation. they would be younger and they would be more balanced. and they’d have coke in the bullpen.
i understand an argument can be made for grandson , but that trade weakened mlb ready pitching for improving an offensive position at a time the yankees were weak on pitching and strong on offense.
that’s the real problem now. the yankees have sacrificed pitching for offense. they are strong on offense and weak on pitching. this is an odd position to be in considering the time cashman has had to do something about it.
“We offered Lee too much money and his wife preferred the nice, polite fans in Philly………”
Don’t forget…he was also not in it for the money which is why he only took 25 million a year. Very small amount.
YSGuy,
You base your firm statement Pettitte will be back in June on what exactly? Tea leaves, crystal ball, Tarot cards, astrology?
In my opinion, to make any decisions with that hope is foolhardy. Pettitte has repeatedly said not to count on him, yet so many ignore that problematic statement.
Chen sorta scares me because he’s been so HR prone in his career, but he was very good last year and its telling that despite that success there’s been little interest. Of course lefty curveball changeup guys are always undervalued. He could be this generation’s Jamie Moyer.
Pettite needs to make a decision already. Does anyone really think his “maybes” are not keeping the Yanks from doing things despite claims to the contrary??? I don’t.
AJ of 2008 and 2009 is fine with me, as is the AJ of April-May 2010. He had two horrible months, but that was really it.
6 innings and 8 runs? C’mon! He gave up 8 runs 3X in 33 starts. He gave up 3 earned runs or less in 19 starts. It wasn’t THAT bad —
June & August (10 starts, 0-9, 9.34 ERA) was as bad as it gets. The rest of the year (23 starts, 10-6, 2.64) was acceptable.
cgrand14 I will be on Power Alley on @MLBNetworkRadio at 1:35 eastern talking New Zealand baseball! #yankees #xm #mlb
blake January 13th, 2011 at 9:17 am
Sign Damon.
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Wrong.
It’s…. SIGN JOHNNY DAMON
Brown was mentioned in the Mitchell Report, no?
86w183 January 13th, 2011 at 11:21 am
Chen sorta scares me because he’s been so HR prone in his career, but he was very good last year and its telling that despite that success there’s been little interest. Of course lefty curveball changeup guys are always undervalued. He could be this generation’s Jamie Moyer.
+++++++++
And those guys tend to mature late and only when they learn to mix in the change and master the art of pitching. I think Chen is getting there…which is why I am so interested in him.
I watched his last game of the season against Rays very closely, and the guy threw a complete game 2 hit shutout in a game the Rays had to win. I also saw him a few other times, and he is not the same Bruce Chen from prior years.
Let’s remember that before arm troubles, he was once a highly thought of prospect in Atlanta.
“June & August (10 starts, 0-9, 9.34 ERA) was as bad as it gets. The rest of the year (23 starts, 10-6, 2.64) was acceptable”
That’s him though. Maybe not quite to these extremes, but this is what he does and has been doing throughout his career. I think he shaves a run off his ERA this time around and has an overall better season, but he’ll still drive people scooters all year.
“Let’s remember that before arm troubles, he was once a highly thought of prospect in Atlanta”
Plus the Yankees have had some okay luck with Panamanians.
Welcome to the future.
Andy might come back mid season, maybe even next year, but as of now we are not only lacking a 5th starter but a 4th, a 3rd if AJ is not repairable. The “atta boys” are happy with all that dough in their pockets but the fans aren’t.
Chad, has Cash mentioned Zambrano in your talks?
Hey, if Burnett can give us 6 innings for 30 starts and go 12-12 or 15-15, I’d sign up for that from a #3 pitcher in the AL East. I think he might even do a little better…say 15-12 or so…
A couple of factors…
1) Better pitching coach
2) Better catcher
3) The two above may gorce him to use his change more and give him more confidence.
Mell,
Compare Brown’s stats to Bob Gibson. Not saying he was as good as Gibson but for one guy to be considered an all time great and the other to not even get enough votes to stay on the ballot…..something is off there and I have to believe it was because he was mentioned in the Mitchell report (even though there was no actual evidence reported there…..only speculation )
Mell January 13th, 2011 at 11:28 am
“Let’s remember that before arm troubles, he was once a highly thought of prospect in Atlanta”
Plus the Yankees have had some okay luck with Panamanians.
++++++++++++++
Ah Roberto Kelly–where art thou?
Before he started having arm troubnles in Baltimore in 2006, which finally ended him missing most of the season in early 2007 and 2008, he went 13-10 with a 3.83 in the AL East (2005). His arm troubles are past, he has learned to mix in a change and pitch…this guy could do very well in NYC.
@ Randy you brought up a good point which is when the heat is on all of sudden the plan to develop takes a back seat. You can’t preach patience to the fans when you yourself lack it.
blake January 13th, 2011 at 11:32 a
++++++++++++++
Brown definitely deserved more support, but perhaps bigger than the possibility of P-E-Ds was the certainly of j-e-r-k. The guy was disliked by most people who met him.
If someone actually failed a drug test or has a mountain of circumstantial evidence against them then that’s one thing and a separate argument can be had on whether they belong in the HOF or not…….but the guilt by association and speculation of guilt being thrown around with no evidence whatsoever is shameful IMO.
Really happy Jeter is going to Tampa early to work with Long. When I saw Long identified something to fix in Jeter’s stride at the plate I was thrilled.
The thing I noticed the most about Jeter last season was his legs looked rickety and he was stiff in the lower body than I’ve ever seen him at the plate. I figured it was getting old or he was injured, but maybe there is something in his lower half he can adjust to get the torque back on his swing.
If Long helps Jeter like he did Grandy last season he should be made hitting coach for life.
Theory. I honestly don’t think Hal, Hank, Randy and Trost care that much. The money machine won’t grind completely to a halt this year, the boys are multi-millionaires who own a 1.6 billion dollar franchise. They live the good life, mansions and private jets, etc. They don’t have the burning desire to win that George did.
Their business bet at this point makes sense. We’re not going to win it all, so cut payroll and that will help compensate for whatever minimal drop-off in revenues might occur due to reduced concessions, merchandise and ticket sales.
Bojo:
Not buying any of that on Burnett. 1st of all, no real evidence backing that Rothschild is better than what they had. Secondly, who the catcher is has proven to be of little significance thru his career. Only one who’s going to solve Burnett is Burnett and it’s probably too late to make him what he should be. But, he can still be what he was in ’09, which would work out OK for the Yankees.
BoJo January 13th, 2011 at 11:13 am
Let me put it this way Casahman sux–
I hope that your life is so perfect that the only thing you have to complain and worry about is the Yankee rotation. Otherwise, why spend valuable time getting upset about something you have no control over? We all just have to watch and wait.
Winter and spring are the seasons of eternal optimism for baseball fans everywhere…following your favorite team should lift your spirit, not depress it.
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I’m sorry that my realistic views are being viewed as depressing….and I can speak about my wonderful kids and awesome wife on this blog if you’d like but I’m not sure how many people really care about that….its a yankee blog and you have people with favorable “everything is peachy” views and others with the opposite view…..
oh and i’m totally not worried about the rotation or even if the yankees finish in last place..(actually if they finish in last place it will certainly mean that cashman has indeed left so it won’t be all that bad)..
and just for the record today after work i’ll be enjoying the weather outside with my kids as i live in the only state in America that snow hasn’t fallen on…
funny you addressed me as cashman sux…..freudian slip maybe???..regardless i agree that we all should have more important things to do so I wish you a good day and honestly hope you are right regarding the 2011 season and I am dead wrong….
Mell January 13th, 2011 at 11:36 am
“which would work out OK for the Yankees.”
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That was my main point–that he will be fine if he gives us 55 ball and innings.
Typo–s/b 500 ball
kevin brown is not a HOFer and should not be mentioned in the same breath as Bob Gibson
“austinmac January 13th, 2011 at 11:18 am
YSGuy,
You base your firm statement Pettitte will be back in June on what exactly? Tea leaves, crystal ball, Tarot cards, astrology?”
…we all gotta believe in something, even us athiests!
MoRings42 January 13th, 2011 at 11:07 am
I’d like to hear less about the Pettitte story and more about the Yankees story.. Why does Brian Cashman always seem to have tunnel vision? There is no worst case scenario in his thinking.
I cannot believe there was no backup plan for lee and/or pettitte. What happens if one of the other starters go down? It’s nice to think that they’ll all stay healthy but that’s not realistic thinking. I look foward to this season less and less… and this is the first season I’ve ever felt like that.
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the logical move would be Chamberlain reconverts to a starter & Nova is the number 5 guy or someone from the farm that forces them to take notice.despite inherent risks,joba has pitched as a starter before,& with success in 2008.the alternative is giving up important assets for mediocre return & cashman if his storyline can be believed claims he’s not doing that.I only hope that isn’t BS.he’d have to really come up with a dramatic difference maker to give up key pieces of the team’s future.
Cashman–
I am truly glad to hear things are well with you…I was starting to worry.
Perhaps that was a Fruedian slip…who knows?
The only true innings eater on the Yankee starting staff right now is C.C.
Depending on what Hughes carries over into this season, he could be classified as another.
It ends there which means the bullpen will log a lot of innings.
Unless Larry Rothschild is a miracle worker, counting on Burnett to throw multiple quality games (6th inning or later) is like counting on Ramiro Pena getting 300 at bats and hitting .325 …………..
Hoping for a miracle in ST from a 4th starter is not the same as from a 5th starter.
It’s almost as if the Stein Boys want to show the world they can win at a lower payroll.
YsGuy January 13th, 2011 at 11:39 am
“we all gotta believe in something, even us athiests!”
++++++++++++++++++
I BELIEVE–that I’ll have another cup of coffee.
…we all gotta believe in something, even us athiests!
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what?atheists are as “true believer” as it gets!
My plan for 2011:
Sign Thome as DH. Platoon Posada and Martin. Sign Jones as 4th OF. Move Joba from the pen to the rotation. Sign Rauch for the pen. Let Nova, Phelps, Noesi and Mitchell fight it out for #5. Hope it all works out.
Brown’s closer to the Orel Hershiser, Brett Saberhagen, and Ron Guidry class of pitcher.
Bojo — Those are valid points on Chen. I’d certainly welcome him in place of Mitre which would be the result. I saw him on TV 4 or 5 times last year and he was pretty consistent. It all comes down to him hitting the inside corner with his fastball.
Signing Rausch and giving Joba another shot as a starter is okay with me too. Staying pat is the only unacceptable suggestion at this point.
Bojo..
just a realist….unfortunately being a realist is synonymous with being a pessimist nowadays.. no need to worry..unlike cashman come oh…… August…
mick January 13th, 2011 at 11:41 am
Hoping for a miracle in ST from a 4th starter is not the same as from a 5th starter.
It’s almost as if the Stein Boys want to show the world they can win at a lower payroll.
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mick,I don’t know about needing a miracle,but it would sure help if someone steps forward.
I haven’t looked closely at the tentative schedule but there may be stretches where we can skip certain starters.i still think if they can piece it together early & the offense can get off to a good start,AP could return.there’s always those after break trades fading or fargone teams will make that they won’t now.
Cashman needs to go January 13th, 2011 at 11:36
and just for the record today after work i’ll be enjoying the weather outside with my kids as i live in the only state in America that snow hasn’t fallen on…
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Cashman needs to go enjoying that Florida weather
Cashman needs to go,
I think it’s your name that is bugging people out. If you’re a Yankee fan who is not concerned with the state of the rotation today, you’re huffing glue.
Rick Peterson on mlbradio now talking about prevention of pitching injuries.
Mick,
I didn’t say Brown was as good as Gibson….just that when you look at their career numbers they are similar, at least closer than one being an all time great and the other not even on the HOF ballot.
# G. Love January 13th, 2011 at 11:36 am
Really happy Jeter is going to Tampa early to work with Long. When I saw Long identified something to fix in Jeter’s stride at the plate I was thrilled.
The thing I noticed the most about Jeter last season was his legs looked rickety and he was stiff in the lower body than I’ve ever seen him at the plate. I figured it was getting old or he was injured, but maybe there is something in his lower half he can adjust to get the torque back on his swing.
If Long helps Jeter like he did Grandy last season he should be made hitting coach for life.
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I really think Jeter had a left leg injury last year.
“i’ll be enjoying the weather outside with my kids as i live in the only state in America that snow hasn’t fallen on…”
Kids love the snow until they are old enough to have to shovel it.
Cashman needs to go,
I think it?s your name that is bugging people out. If you?re a Yankee fan who is not concerned with the state of the rotation today, you?re huffing glue.
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I agree with Cashman needs to go ! . . pitching is a concern.
just a realist….unfortunately being a realist is synonymous with being a pessimist nowadays.
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no,so-called “realists” are really pessimists.healthy skepticism is more in line with realism.but skepticism,if it isn’t pessimism in diguise,allows for adjustment when reality shifts.
“kevin brown is not a HOFer and should not be mentioned in the same breath as Bob Gibson”
Blake was merely pointing out some statistical parallels, which actually do exist. Gibson has a 13 year run of sustained dominance that Brown does not, but Brown had some numbers and posted several outstanding seasons. Not HOF-level, IMO, but he shouldn’t have been dismissed as a less than 5 percenter either.
the username shows bias,esp two yrs after the yankees won the World Series,& it completely chooses to disregard how the farm system has gone from no signs of life to being in the top five of baseball.there’s nothing evenhanded about the viewpoint from go.
“Really happy Jeter is going to Tampa early to work with Long.”
Jeter lives in Tampa and works out at the minor league complex every off season so except for K.Long showing up for a week this isn’t that big a change this year.
Whenever Jeter has slumped in his career its been because he gets out and front and jumps at the ball…..which increases his groundball rate because he’s rolling over everything. In the past he’s straightened it out pretty quickly but last year it lasted most of the season…..what’s yet to be seen is if it was due to injury, loss of bat speed, just a prolonged slump, or a combination of all those things. If he is losing bat speed that doesn’t mean he’s done…..it just means he has to make adjustments to compensate for it.
AJ is going to bounce back,as long as he uses that 3rd pitch & keeps the extra ticks he had against Texas.that was a good step for him & he seems willing to really go at it with the new guy.I choose to be encouraged & think these factors could mean a really good yr for him.
G. Love January 13th, 2011 at 11:46 am
Cashman needs to go,
I think it’s your name that is bugging people out. If you’re a Yankee fan who is not concerned with the state of the rotation today, you’re huffing glue.
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Well I am concerned…if you’ve been reading my infrequent posts since last August…but not to the point where I am losing sleep over it (as Bojo was worried about)…… like I mentioned I’m positive that if the Yankees finish at 500 next year (A very distinct possibility given their record after the ASB last year and the fact that they’ve actually gotten worse this offseason since then ….so far) cashman will be gone…so at that point i’ll have to change my sign on name…
How about..
Cashman needs to go…..to the unemployment office?
or for the positive thinkers..in case the yankees totally surprise everyone and actually win with this motley crew that he’s put together..
Cashman Needs to go….to the HOF…
or for amusement seekers..
Cashman needs to go…to the bathroom….
last thing i want to do is bug out folks on this blog
Brown is more in line with Catfish Hunter, Luis Tiant and Don Drysdale and certainly a better choice than Lefty Gomez.
Jete you could see was in pain when he pulled up after running to a base.he never looked comfortable at the plate either.
pat,
Thanks for putting the wet blanket over the news today about Jeter. I’m sorry to tell you, but it is news that Jeter is showing up early to work with a hitting instructor. It’s an admission that he wants to work on what went wrong last season. That’s big news.
NEW THREAD ——- >
Jeter has a lot of pre-pitch movement as he’s loading up to swing….quieting some of that down could give him a little more time to let the ball travel.
JAP–
I also thought Jeter was not the same after being hit in the left hand or wrist in May. He tends to hide these injuries, but it shows in the box scores.
I think AJ is going to really benefit with Martin back there. He won’t have to worry about every pitch in the dirt going to the backstop or a runner on first ending up on third 2 pitches later. The less AJ has to think, the better for everyone
J. Alfred Prufrock January 13th, 2011 at 11:48 am
just a realist….unfortunately being a realist is synonymous with being a pessimist nowadays.
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no,so-called “realists” are really pessimists.healthy skepticism is more in line with realism.but skepticism,if it isn’t pessimism in diguise,allows for adjustment when reality shifts.
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I’m confused…so am I a pessimist ..or not
oh and i’ve disliked cashman even before the yankees won the WS in 2009….remember that with cashman leading this team they hadn’t won one in 9 years before that……having a top 10 minor league system (don’t think its in the top 5) results in how many world series championships? the rays, rangers, brewers, etc al have had top 5 minor league systems and how many WS have they won in total? ALso they’ve used those minor leaguers to trade for MAJOR league talent…
BoJo January 13th, 2011 at 12:03 pm
JAP–
I also thought Jeter was not the same after being hit in the left hand or wrist in May. He tends to hide these injuries, but it shows in the box scores.
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it does & they need to take more of a stand when he’s hurting that he has to sit it out.love the kid’s competitive edge,but he’s got to understand you can’t go into battle on one leg or with your wrist or shoulder screwed up.I forget now which yr it was,but his throws one yr were just so off you knew he probably shouldn’t have been in there.they need to be smarter on this & so does he.