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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Does making the Yankees better make this a good deal?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 14, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post


The Yankees finally made a splash this offseason. They couldn’t land this winter’s top free agent starter, so they got the top free agent reliever.

Short-term, there is no downside to Rafael Soriano in pinstripes. The Yankees had plenty of room in their budget, and aside from Andy Pettitte, Soriano was the impact free agent that fit them best. He makes the bullpen incredibly deep, and he provides considerable insurance for a 41-year-old closer whose workload has diminished in recent years.

Soriano makes the Yankees better. I’m not sure he makes them a lot better, but he makes them better, and surely that’s the point of any offseason move.

That said, it’s hard for me to be completely sold on the deal. Soriano is a great pitcher with a proven track record, but in the big picture, it’s hard for me to see this as a total win for the Yankees.

The structure of the deal
First, the obvious: A $35-million deal for a setup man is massive. It was pretty stunning when the Tigers gave Joaquin Benoit $16.5 million earlier this offseason. The Soriano deal blows that one out of the water. But, it’s obviously money the Yankees could afford to spend, so it’s hard to be too stunned at the amount of dollars involved.

Beyond the money, giving Soriano an opt-out clause after each season is bizarre. Just two years ago he was limited to 14 innings because of an elbow injury. He was similarly limited in 2004 and 2005. If he gets hurt again, Soriano can cash in for three years of Yankees paychecks. If he stays healthy and dominates, he can jump ship. I suppose the Yankees had to give him some sort of perks for agreeing to be a setup man, but right now that looks like a no-win contract for the Yankees.

One of the biggest perks to this deal is having Soriano as a replacement should Mariano Rivera get hurt. It’s a nice luxury, but obviously it’s not a best-case scenario. In fact, what is the best-case scenario with this sort of contract? That Soriano pitches well, but not so well that he leaves after one year? Do they want him to opt out so they don’t have to keep paying him this sort of money?

The impact of a setup man
With Soriano, the Yankees have a remarkably deep bullpen. As long as Soriano pitches like he did last year — and the other pieces do their part — it will be a bullpen much like the Yankees had in the final two months of last season, when Kerry Wood came over from Cleveland and became a dominant eighth-inning man.

There can be no doubt Wood made the Yankees better last year. The other relievers seemed to fall into line behind him, and the bullpen was terrific down the stretch. That said, without Wood, the Yankees were 66-37 last year. With Wood, they were 29-30. In other words, there are things much more important than the eighth inning. As Joe Pawlikowski pointed out, the Yankees were 80-7 when they carried a lead into the eighth inning last year. How many of those seven loses would Soriano have turned into wins?

As for the possibility of Soriano becoming the heir to Rivera’s ninth inning: If Soriano does takeover when Rivera’s two-year deal expires, it will happen when Soriano is already 33 years old and in the final year of his own contract. That’s a placeholder, not a replacement.

The need for a reliever right now
The last time the Yankees won the World Series, they won it in a season that opened with Brian Bruney as their primary setup man. By the end of the summer, Phil Hughes had stepped into the role. Two years before that, Joba Chamberlain stepped into the eighth inning. Last year, it was Wood, a cheap addition at the trade deadline.

A bullpen can be a work in progress. Relievers have a tendency to be erratic year-to-year, and a bullpen will need to be reevaluated at some point during a season. Right now the minor league system is overflowing with quality, upper-level arms. Relievers are always attainable at the deadline. I agree that Soriano makes the Yankees bullpen better — let there be no doubt, that’s true — I’m just not it’s a worthwhile addition right now.

With two young relievers already in the mix, the Yankees could have done what they’ve done the past three years and let the bullpen evolve, then reassess. It might be an occasionally frustrating method, but it’s been pretty effective. It’s certainly been more effective than throwing offseason money into the bullpen.

The lost draft pick
This is a fairly minor issue because draft picks — even the first rounders — come with absolutely no guarantee. The 2005 first-round class is considered one of the best we’ve seen, and there are maybe a dozen of those guys who look like true impact big leaguers. The 31st pick in that draft — the spot the Yankees gave up to sign Soriano — was a kid named Matt Torra who’s become a borderline prospect in the Diamondbacks system and has yet to reach the big leagues. Chances are, the Yankees gave up the rights to a player you’ll never hear about.

That said, relief pitchers are also risky, and the impact of a setup reliever is limited. Certainly, a first-round pick is going to have the potential to be more than an eighth-inning guy, which is what Soriano will be as long as everything goes to plan. Giving up a first-rounder might not be a huge issue, but it’s part of the equation. Two other notes about the draft pick:

1. It’s not just a lost first rounder, it’s a lost first rounder going to the Rays, who have done a great job restocking their system for another run at the AL East in the not-so-distant future.
2. Last week, Brian Cashman didn’t only tell me he wouldn’t surrender a pick this winter, he also told the Daily News and the Post. Pure speculation on my part, but I can’t help wondering if this move was pushed by someone else in the organization. Ben Shpigel writes that Cashman simply expected a higher financial cost when he vowed not to lose a draft pick.

Associated Press photo

 
 

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286 Responses to “Does making the Yankees better make this a good deal?”

  1. upstate kate January 14th, 2011 at 8:50 am

    yes, but isn’t part of the deal providing a back up or possible successor to Mo? Much as we would love to see him pitch forever, he is 42.

  2. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 8:51 am

    Just read the news in my local paper! My feeling? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    This is my belated Christmas present. I was really hoping the Yanks would sign Soriano. Good Lord I think it is great because I think he is great. Cannot wait to watch the 8th and 9th innings with the Soriano-Mo tandem.

    While the rest of the off season hasn’t felt very good to many fans, I would have to think this feels pretty darned nice!

    Happy New Year everyone.

    I remain hopeful.

    :)

  3. Yankee Trader January 14th, 2011 at 8:52 am

    blake-

    Now the Yankees can sign Balfour and not give Tampa another 1st round pick!!

    Soriano will get his share of save opportunities.

    Duchscherer, Garcia, Bonderman, Francis, others, or should the Yankees just move Joba into the rotation and sign another bullpen arm?

  4. joeman January 14th, 2011 at 8:53 am

    1. upstate kate January 14th, 2011 at 8:50 am

    yes, but isn’t part of the deal providing a back up or possible successor to Mo? Much as we would love to see him pitch forever, he is 42.
    ————————————————————-
    kate…..not a sure thing he’s here when MO leaves with that opt out….

  5. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 8:56 am

    I would think anyone who watched Soriano pitch for the Mariners, the Braves, and the Rays would be dancing in the street. I would do it if we weren’t snowed in, ha ha.

    My dad always told us not to borrow trouble. Why not look at this as a golden deal rather than worry about things that don’t really matter, Chad? You know the Yankees have the money. If they didn’t see this as a great deal they wouldn’t have gone there. And a closer for the future? Hell yes!

    I’m a happy camper with this one.

    Hi Kate!!

    :)

  6. Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 8:56 am

    Clearly, this deal was forced on Cashman, otherwise, he’s lost.

    This deal really shows that they have no plan because if they were willing to pay a setup man this much, they should have offered Wood arbitration.

  7. Crawdaddy January 14th, 2011 at 8:58 am

    I agree Rich. I am starting to lose faith in Cashman and upper management and ownership.

  8. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 8:58 am

    I’m going to bet that Soriano won’t be going anywhere, knowing that the potential is there for him to be the closer for the New York Yankees.

    JMO

  9. Yankee Trader January 14th, 2011 at 8:59 am

    Chad-

    If Soriano opts out after year 1 he will be in the closer market with Bell, Broxton, Franklin, Capps, Papelbon and potentially Lidge, Valverde, Nathan and Rodriguez, if their options aren’t picked up.

    I’m going on record that Pettitte comes back in June on a prorated contract, as his kids will be away at summer camp!

  10. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 9:00 am

    Chad-

    Much ado about nothing.

    I’m sure the Yankees thought thru all the possible scenarios before they pulled the trigger.

    At least, that’s my take.

    If he sticks around fine. If he goes we’ll just replace him.

    I just hope he stays healthy for as long as we have him.

  11. pat January 14th, 2011 at 9:00 am

    Possible the opt-out is a way for Soriano to get a raise with the Yankees if he needed to assume the role of closer anytime during the next 2 years.

  12. Shame Spencer January 14th, 2011 at 9:01 am

    Morning All! Haven’t been in for a while (these jerks at work want me to do… work! imagine?!) but I’m a fan of this deal. At the end of the day, while yes there is a draft pick involved, this deal really just comes down to money.

    I’m not sure I understand the structure of it though. If I had to guess, I’d say there is a wink and a nod in there somewhere, but I don’t know exactly what that would represent. That Soriano wouldn’t opt out? Or that he would only under certain circumstances?

  13. mick January 14th, 2011 at 9:01 am

    so much for the autonomy of brian cashman

  14. EricVA January 14th, 2011 at 9:03 am

    Man what a terrible deal. Yeah he’s good, and so was Karsay and Farnsworth, etc. I know he’s better than the two I mentioned, but when was the last time a multiyear deal worked out for a reliever (not named Mariano)? Just terrible. I hope he has a lights-out year this year and then opts out. Let somebody else pay over $10MM for the inevitable disaster year.

  15. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 9:03 am

    Maybe Cashman needed a kick in the pants ?

    He’s not infallible.

  16. upstate kate January 14th, 2011 at 9:04 am

    Hi Trisha!

    I guess I am not especially worried about the opt-out…as a biased Yankee fan I can’t imagine anyone wanting to leave…and that is a good point Pat

  17. austinmac January 14th, 2011 at 9:04 am

    I think we can safely conclude the opt outs were necessary to get the deal done. We only have pretend knowledge of the market. We can be sure he had a reason.

    As I have been saying , this is a business and the Yankees do not want a fan base that is unhappy and pessimistic. This helps in that regard as well as helping the on field part.

    I just hope we didn’t lose out on another Eric Duncan with our last pick. :)

  18. Doreen January 14th, 2011 at 9:05 am

    Trisha -

    I’m in your camp.

    Even if it turns out to be only for one year of Soriano, that would likely mean Soriano had a good year for the Yankees and wants to be back out there on the market looking for more money.

    Almost every move the Yankees could have made or did make have negatives attached. Even Cliff Lee would have been a risk at the money and term of the contract. Heck, every time a player steps onto the baseball field, there is a risk attached. There is no no-risk situation. Particularly with pitchers.

    Even if the move was “forced” on Cashman, it is not a terrible move.

    Seems to me there’s been a lot of itching and moaning around these parts for a couple of months now about how the Yankees shouldn’t be afraid to spend their money; how disappointing it’s been to witness the Yankees in “budget” mode. So, they overspend a little for a pitcher (who has been a very successful closer) to pitch the 8th inning. So what? Likely Soriano will get opportunities to close. It’s kind of nice knowing that if Mo has gone 2 days in a row and they need to bring in a closer that Soriano is out there. And to be able to resist temptation to bring Mo in for 4- and 5-out saves.

  19. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 9:06 am

    Rich, it is possible that they didn’t offer Wood arbitration for all of the reasons people already told me about when I asked (full knowledge that he wanted to go back to the Cubs, etc.) plus they probably felt that Lee was going to be coming and that’s where they would put their money.

    I’m not going to hang around to read too much of the lohud gloom and despair since I personally feel this is great for the Yankees and I can find a lot of other ways to have my day ruined than to hear fans constantly complain.

    I say to all. Thank God you have your health, (hoping you do) and root for a great team. Things aren’t always going to swing the way fans want them to. Part of being a fan, IMO, is toughing it out and being thankful for all of the things your team has given you to root for to date, something not all fans of other teams have at the ready.

    Plus I think this is awesome.

    I’m with you MTU. Much ado about nothing.

    *********************

    Would you all be happier if the Yankees did nothing this season?

  20. Doreen January 14th, 2011 at 9:07 am

    MTU -

    Saw your response re: Duchscherer. Perhaps that’s the reason.

  21. JEKIKASO January 14th, 2011 at 9:08 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 8:51 am
    Just read the news in my local paper! My feeling? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    This is my belated Christmas present. I was really hoping the Yanks would sign Soriano. Good Lord I think it is great because I think he is great. Cannot wait to watch the 8th and 9th innings with the Soriano-Mo tandem.
    ***********************************
    7th – JOBA
    8th – SORIANO
    9th – MARIANO
    ARE YOU READY FOR THIS ONE?

    JO,SO,MO?

  22. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 9:10 am

    How much money have the Yankees wasted on guys like Igawa and Pavano ?

    This is chump change compared with those two.

    And as far as the draft pick goes. So what. We’ll either make up for it in the later rounds or we’ll just sign another Montero, sanchez, or DePaula out of the international market.

    I don’t see the need for distress.

    I think we made ourselves better as long as Soriano stays healthy.

    And we didn’t even have to surrender a single piece of the farm to get it done.

    Just my 2 cents.

  23. blake January 14th, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Trader,

    Yea I know….that was discussed las night a bit. They could do that or they could still sign Rauch who I like a little better.

    Craw,

    That’s where the system needs tweeked. Its good in theory but there are too many leupolds and ways to take advantage of it.

    MTU,

    I was thinking about my riflescope ;) Nah my phone does some nutty things sometimes.

  24. Mike Ri January 14th, 2011 at 9:10 am

    We have to give Soriano a chance ,, The guy saved 45 games for an AL EAST team last season and now he’s our set up guy.

    The contract bothers me a bit. . Not to the point where i’m going to lose sleep. The Yankees have the resources to cover such Financial risk.

    As far as the draft pick goes. . Who cares …it was the 31st pick . .I can see if was a 10 ten pick….. and Who cares if it goes to Tampa Bay. They probably won’t be relevant for another 3 to 5 years..

    Like I said , in a sport with no salary cap , free agency . and strong resources the Yankees will survive passing up on a draft pick.

  25. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 9:11 am

    “I guess I am not especially worried about the opt-out…as a biased Yankee fan I can’t imagine anyone wanting to leave”

    :) Yeah that’s where I come from also!

    Doreen, right there as always! And you are spot on with the way this can help Mo not have to go out there two days in a row, when those situations occur.

    I have to believe the Yankees give things a heck of a lot of thought before they do them and deal with information and contingencies fans haven’t even begun to think about – or know.

    Don’t worry, be happy!

  26. Against All Odds January 14th, 2011 at 9:12 am

    # West Coast Yankee Fan January 14th, 2011 at 12:56 am

    The Joba as a starter stuff here is just amazing, on and on and on. He’s not going to start, it would be a ridiculous move that would reek of desperation and would be doomed to fail. Then what. When he sucks, again, as a starter. You are going to tell him, never mind Joba, back to the pen? I am sure his trade value will be sky high then right?
    ————————————————————————————-

    Isn’t the Soriano deal one of desperation as well.

    Well if he sucks again what harm does it do????/ His value is not going to get lower than it is right now.

  27. Joe from Long Island January 14th, 2011 at 9:12 am

    This deal isn’t just about an additional 7 wins in the regular season, though that can be important. It’s about October, and getting 11 wins there. I think I read that winning the WS 2009 got the Yanks an additional $76m in revenues.

    I really don’t understand how anybody at our distance can parse anything about the internal discussions on the Yankees. It’s all guesswork here. There are issues that we have no clue about, and unless we read someones memoirs 20-30 years down the road, never will.

  28. Erin January 14th, 2011 at 9:13 am

    JEKIKASO January 14th, 2011 at 9:08 am

    8th ? SORIANO
    9th ? MARIANO
    ARE YOU READY FOR THIS ONE?

    JO,SO,MO?

    *****************************
    Throw D-Rob in there, and you’ve got Ro, Jo, So, Mo ;)

  29. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 9:13 am

    Blake-

    Yeah. Blame it on the phone.

    :)

    Doreen-

    Those would be my reasons.

    Don’t know if they’re correct.

    I really want the guy if he is healthy enough.

    He is extremely versatile and very effective.

    Think AA. Only better.

    ;)

  30. YankeesNmore January 14th, 2011 at 9:15 am

    This is not a “good” deal from the Yankees’ point of view.

    Rafael Soriano was rapidly running out of options and still found a way to get all the money that was projected and all the years. Not only that, he got opt-outs after each year.

    So, with no real options to speak of, Soriano got all the security and $$$ a long-term deal provides, and all the freedom of a one-year deal to go with it. And this when he had few options available. In fact, his next-best option was probably to return to Tampa on a staright one-year deal for $10 million or less.

    And before anybody thinks I’m ripping Cashman again here, I’m not.

    First, I LOVE the idea of what this bullpen could look like, even if it is for just one more year.

    Second, I’m not at all sure this was Cashman’s deal to begin with. It is not Cashman’s style to just flat-out lie, even as a negotiating strategy. In fact, I can’t think of a time when he made a direct statement, as he did about the Yankees keeping their first pick, and then completely flipped less than a week later.

    Could be this deal was forced on Cashman. If so, that’s a significant crack in his hold on this franchise, which is, of course, fine with me.

  31. Tom in N.J. January 14th, 2011 at 9:17 am

    As Chad pointed out, this is a lateral move-Soriano replaces Wood. The bullpen next year should be very good.

  32. Erin January 14th, 2011 at 9:17 am

    BryanHoch New Yankees reliever Rafael Soriano enjoys ‘Sweet Caroline,’ writes mysterious messages in dirt: http://bit.ly/iihlvU

  33. Fran the original January 14th, 2011 at 9:18 am

    I think this is a great move and solidifies the bullpen.

    I wonder what this means for Joba. Will the Yankees use him in the 7th inning, the starting rotation or as a trading chip for a starter?

  34. joeman January 14th, 2011 at 9:20 am

    # trisha – true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 9:06 am

    Rich, it is possible that they didn’t offer Wood arbitration for all of the reasons people already told me about when I asked (full knowledge that he wanted to go back to the Cubs, etc.) plus they probably felt that Lee was going to be coming and that’s where they would put their money.

    I’m not going to hang around to read too much of the lohud gloom and despair since I personally feel this is great for the Yankees and I can find a lot of other ways to have my day ruined than to hear fans constantly complain.

    I say to all. Thank God you have your health, (hoping you do) and root for a great team. Things aren’t always going to swing the way fans want them to. Part of being a fan, IMO, is toughing it out and being thankful for all of the things your team has given you to root for to date, something not all fans of other teams have at the ready.

    Plus I think this is awesome.

    I’m with you MTU. Much ado about nothing.

    *********************

    Would you all be happier if the Yankees did nothing this season?
    ———————————————————————-
    I’m happy groundhog day ended in Yankee land

  35. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 9:21 am

    Fran-

    Right now I think Joba is cannon fodder in the eyes of the Yankees.

    He hasn’t done anything to help change their evaluation of him.

    That’s his fault.

  36. Erin January 14th, 2011 at 9:21 am

    cgrand14 http://plixi.com/p/69782071 Shooting new publicity photos

  37. joeman January 14th, 2011 at 9:22 am

    # Erin January 14th, 2011 at 9:17 am

    BryanHoch New Yankees reliever Rafael Soriano enjoys ‘Sweet Caroline,’ writes mysterious messages in dirt: http://bit.ly/iihlvU
    ———————————————————-
    he also likes some song by pitbull…. just wonderful !!!!!

  38. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 9:22 am

    ROJOSOMO!

    Seriously, all I can say to that thought is – HOLY COW!!!

    :)

    Add a Boone Logan and the knowledge that you’ve got some multiple innings guys at the early end, life just got a whole lot better.

    ************

    Hi Fran!! :) I’ve always felt that the Yanks were going to hold on to Joba. What this move does is takes even more pressure off Joba and lets him go out there and be part of the bullpen without having the game on his shoulders. I actually think that’s a good thing for Joba as long as he is with the Yankees, and as long as he is part of the bullpen.

  39. upstate kate January 14th, 2011 at 9:22 am

    ha ha Joeman, I thought about that this morning when I first saw the news!

  40. Mell January 14th, 2011 at 9:24 am

    “I’m going to bet that Soriano won’t be going anywhere, knowing that the potential is there for him to be the closer for the New York Yankees”

    All the reason in the world to opt out after two years.

  41. YankeesNmore January 14th, 2011 at 9:24 am

    What exactly has Joba Chamberlain done the last two years to merit all the “Joba, So, Mo” talk???

    Even for all his sturggles with control last season, David Robertson was, almost across the board, a better pitcher than was Joba Chamberlain in both 2009 and 2010.

    Chamberlain is a short reliever with ERA’s in the mid-4′s the last two years… And this in the post-PED era when pitchers numbers are dropping dramatically.

    Stop looking at the name and dreaming of 2007 and start looking at the performance. Joba Chamberlain is MUCH closer to the last pitcher in that pen than he is to being one of the first.

  42. Doreen January 14th, 2011 at 9:25 am

    With Joe from Long Island’s post in mind, could be that Cash was trying to position himself for a better deal, but when Heyman started tweeting that there may be other teams involved, push came to shove (whether from the owners or on his own accord) and they went forward with it, understanding all the ramifications.

    They waited Lee out and came away without Lee.

    This was an opportunity, even it is a short-lived one, to improve their bullpen (and their team). Sometimes you just take a deep breath and go!

  43. Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 9:26 am

    “Rich, it is possible that they didn’t offer Wood arbitration for all of the reasons people already told me about when I asked (full knowledge that he wanted to go back to the Cubs, etc.) plus they probably felt that Lee was going to be coming and that’s where they would put their money.”

    Except if he wanted to go back to the Cubs, their risk was limited.

    They paid Feliciano $4m a year. They are going to pay an BUO about $2m, maybe more. They couldn’t find another $4m in case Wood accepted arbitration? I don’t believe it.

    Soriano helps; he makes them better, but when your GM says only last week that he won’t give up a 1st round pick, it’s pretty clear that something is not right in the Yankees’ FO.

  44. upstate kate January 14th, 2011 at 9:26 am

    so if you add Logan in it would be ROLOJOSOMO!

    it will be interesting to see what happens w/ Joba. Another chance in the rotation? Traded? Still part of the pen? I have more confidence in D-rob at this point.

  45. Shame Spencer January 14th, 2011 at 9:26 am

    Remember when we paid Alex Rodriguez to play third base?

    Thats how I’m feeling about now :D

  46. just_another_handle January 14th, 2011 at 9:28 am

    YankeesNmore

    Well said. It reminds me of the idiotic Arod deal. He too had no other viable options and the Yankees rushed in to line his pockets at the expense of the fans. Same deal with Cashman also. He vowed that if Arod opted out of his contract, that they wouldn’t be interested in re-signing him. I believe he meant that when he said it but had to backtrack when ownership panicked.

  47. Doreen January 14th, 2011 at 9:28 am

    Trisha -

    With Boone Logan, it could be LoRoJoSoMo. :)

    YankeesNmore – Just a little light-hearted fun. Not everything has to be serious. :)

  48. Mike Ri January 14th, 2011 at 9:28 am

    Now if only Cashman can pry away a starter !

  49. JoeyA January 14th, 2011 at 9:28 am

    Can someone with more baseball knowledge than myself explain why baseball doesn’t allow teams to use draft picks in trades?

  50. Doreen January 14th, 2011 at 9:28 am

    Oh, kate – you beat me to it!!! :lol:

  51. Bronx Jeers January 14th, 2011 at 9:29 am

    MTU,

    I’ve been thinking of those days recently with Tuscon being in the news but no flashbacks as of yet.

    I think your take on this deal is the way to go. And although I don’t see them sliding Joba back into the rotation, I wouldn’t complain if they did.

    Speaking of losing weight, has anybody seen the the Mussina segment on the current Yankee Magazine show? I thought you were supposed to gain weight when you retire. He’s as skinny as a rookie. Complete with a gray goatee.

  52. Shame Spencer January 14th, 2011 at 9:30 am

    Oh and this: “It is not Cashman’s style to just flat-out lie, even as a negotiating strategy. In fact, I can’t think of a time when he made a direct statement, as he did about the Yankees keeping their first pick, and then completely flipped less than a week later.”

    You obviously haven’t been playing attention the past few years my friend… I’ll just say Bubba Crosby and leave it at that, I won’t even mention Tex..

  53. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Oops, I forgot Feliciano. Even better!

    The thing about Cashman saying they wouldn’t be giving up a first-round draft pick could have been for show, no? Maybe he was waiting to see what might happen since it is obvious that there aren’t a lot of teams with the money to pony up for Soriano (and those with the money didn’t have the need for a closer). Maybe the price would have come down. Maybe there are things in the deal that weren’t there last week.

    Besides, the last time I quoted something Cashman said and wanted it to be looked at as etched in stone, I was reminded that GMs say things all the time, sometimes because they don’t want to give up their strategies. Kind of like when Bubba Crosby was the Yanks CF – until he wasn’t. The Yanks weren’t giving up a first-round draft pick – until they were.

    I think it’s all good.

  54. 108 stitches January 14th, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Do the math :

    Soriano and Rivera combined 2010 statistics:

    125 Games, 78-86 Saves-Opportunities
    122.1 IP, 75 H, 24 ER, 25 BB, 102 K
    1.77 ERA, 0.82 WHIP, 5.52 H/9, 1.84 BB/9, 7.50 K/9, 4.08 K:BB

    Soriano will not be the EIG exclusively. They’ll be games when Mariano closed the night before with Robertson used in the 8th inning and Soriano serves his role as the co-closer.
    This bullpen should not be burned out if another starter is added.
    It’s a better mix / match situation in 2011 with Pedro Feliciano helping Boone Logan.

  55. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 9:32 am

    “I’ll just say Bubba Crosby and leave it at that”

    Shame – GREAT MINDS!!!

    :)

  56. Noreaster January 14th, 2011 at 9:32 am

    I agree with MTU. Something is probably up with Joba. Assuming Mitre is not really planned for the 5th starter, out bullpen has 7 pitchers and we have lots of kids ready to fill in at AA and AAA. Joba or Robertson is bound to be on the block or slated for a starting spot. With what the Yankees have stated over the winter (can we trust it?). I’m assuming Joba is traded before or in spring training.

  57. YankeesNmore January 14th, 2011 at 9:32 am

    j_a_h… Could not disagree more.

    Alex Rodriguez had options… He was coming off a MONSTER AL MVP season and in the prime of his career. There was no PED talk, no book, no hip injury, etc…

    ARod had options, even if it was only the Angels and Dodgers. I’m not saying he’d have gotten the same deal he got from the Yankees, but he would have been in the ballpark.

    Perhaps this Soriano deal was just the Yankees paying the price for him to accept a non-closer role.

  58. Doreen January 14th, 2011 at 9:33 am

    Bronx Jeers -

    I did see Mussina. He looks great. He always maintained his physique; he’s not ever been described as the usual ballplayer, has he? Guidry kept in great shape, too. The goatee was a little startling – t didn’t look bad, it was just so — WHITE! :lol:

  59. pat January 14th, 2011 at 9:33 am

    BryanHoch New Yankees reliever Rafael Soriano enjoys ‘Sweet Caroline,’ writes mysterious messages in dirt: http://bit.ly/iihlvU

    Jorge and Hughes are “dirt writers” too. I think Jorge makes crosses but don’t know if I’ve ever seen reported what Phil writes.

  60. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 9:34 am

    “With Boone Logan, it could be LoRoJoSoMo.”

    :lol:

    Oh Doreen! With Pedro Feliciano it could be ‘NoLoRoJoSoMo!!!

    :)

  61. Doreen January 14th, 2011 at 9:35 am

    And let’s not create a soap opera where none likely exists regarding “trouble” in the FO because Cashman said he did not want to lose a first round pick and ended up doing so.

  62. Fran the original January 14th, 2011 at 9:35 am

    And if Nova starts the game it would be NoLoRoJoSoMo.

  63. Doreen January 14th, 2011 at 9:36 am

    Trisha -

    It’ll be the “Uh-O” bullpen!!!

  64. Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 9:38 am

    Doreen
    And let’s not create a soap opera where none likely exists regarding “trouble” in the FO because Cashman said he did not want to lose a first round pick and ended up doing so,
    _

    Really? Do you think credibility matters? If so, think about this: Cashman has none.

  65. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 9:38 am

    Jeers-

    It may sound like I’m anti-Joba but I’m not. Never have been.

    I wish the best for him. I want to see him reach his cieling and fulfill
    his potential.

    I would like to see him try to force the issue again by showing determination and commitment to his condtioning.

    But there is no evidence that he is ready to do that.

    That has me frustrated, and I wish it wasn’t that way.

    In many ways, though I didn’t want it to be that way, I think it might be best if he were traded.

    It seems he needs a fresh start.

    Maybe he needs to hit rock bottom first.

    Who knows.

    He may just turn out to be another one of those guys with talent who just never reaches their potential. Roadkill on baseball’s highway.

    I hope that is not the case, wether he makes it with the Yankees or not I’d like to see him make it. Period.

    Sorry for the long post.

  66. Fran the original January 14th, 2011 at 9:38 am

    On Yankees Hot Stove last night, Jack Curry and Bob Klapisch said that the Yankees were going back and forth on Soriano and the idea of loosing a draft pick. Obviously, they made their decision.

    MTU and Trisha,
    Agree with you both. Done digging out yet Trisha?

  67. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 9:39 am

    “And let’s not create a soap opera where none likely exists regarding “trouble” in the FO because Cashman said he did not want to lose a first round pick and ended up doing so.”

    Seriously.

    :roll:

  68. Doreen January 14th, 2011 at 9:39 am

    Fran, building on -

    A Nova start would be the “NoNoLoRoJoSoMo” game!

  69. Doreen January 14th, 2011 at 9:40 am

    Rich in NJ -

    Oh, come on. Cashman has said many things and not said many things over the years. I take EVERYTHING he says with a box of salt.

  70. ac1 January 14th, 2011 at 9:40 am

    Jeff Francis is off the board.

    Next…

  71. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 9:42 am

    Maybe it’s as simple as Cashman’s patience crashing into the Yankees express desire to try to win now.

    Cashman is not an Emperor nor should he be.

    Unless we’re talking about a penguin.

    :)

  72. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 9:43 am

    Fran. we’re basically dug out but as you can imagine, I am loving every snowflake! :) Possibillity of more on Saturday, though I would think they are talking snowshowers and not much else.

    Fran, and Doreen – okay here goes. If Nova starts the game and we go with the rest of the bullpen, we have the potential for two very potent happenings – a “no no” and a double “oh” 7 (007)!

    No‘NoLoRoJoSoMo

    :)

    As someone who adores pitching and defense, all I can say that the addition of Soriano is – oh happy day!

  73. pat January 14th, 2011 at 9:43 am

    Jeff Francis to the Royals on 1 year deal.

  74. upstate kate January 14th, 2011 at 9:43 am

    Fran
    on sports center this am they showed the back page from (I think) the NY Post. It was the JETS as Star Wars characters…quite amusing.

  75. joeman January 14th, 2011 at 9:44 am

    joba was never groom to be a ML starter in the minors, he had on the job training which he didn’t pass and now if they try to trade him alone what are they going to get back…not much

  76. Frankg January 14th, 2011 at 9:44 am

    Aren’t baseball contracts insured by the team for the possibility of player injury? Wouldn’t the Yankees have this protection on Soriano, given his injury history?

    Also, I tend to agree that this move means that something is probably up with Joba or Robertson. Do the Cubs need another reliever? Maybe a move to starter?

  77. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 9:45 am

    i dont think we’ll see joba back to the rotation in the yankees system. its just too much drama, too much pressure and too much of a media circus when they move him. also i dont think he reacted well to the last 2 times he was switched.

    i think he gets traded if he can help bring back a starter. they can keep him as the , what, 5th inning guy (a spot usually reserved for a longman or someone who just got off the scranton express bus), but i think this signing screams that they have little confidence in ever seeing the 2007 joba again.

  78. Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 9:46 am

    Doreen
    Rich in NJ -

    Oh, come on. Cashman has said many things and not said many things over the years. I take EVERYTHING he says with a box of salt.
    __

    It’s more like snow, right, as in a snow job?

    This is not like saying Crosby is your starting CF. That’s fog of war stuff, and it was obviously in his interest to say that.

    There is no interest in making stuff up in this instance. He gained nothing.

    This is about how he deals with agents and how he is perceived., and right now, he’s a joke.

  79. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 9:47 am

    so in other words, i think its more likely that we see NoMoJo(ba).

  80. Bronx Jeers January 14th, 2011 at 9:48 am

    he’s not ever been described as the usual ballplayer, has he?
    ——————————————————————————————–

    Mussina is a man who:

    A. was featured in a documentary about the New York Times crossword puzzle

    B. collects tractors

  81. mick January 14th, 2011 at 9:49 am

    I think we can safely conclude the opt outs were necessary to get the deal done. We only have pretend knowledge of the market. We can be sure he had a reason.
    ============================================
    It’s just about leverage.
    Suppose Mo gets hurt and he wants more next year.
    After 2 years if Mo retires, he might think he could get more again, even if both times it’s for us.
    He is a set-up/closer and he will get saves when Mo needs a rest, a luxury no other team has, call him expensive insurance.
    Money is relative anyways.
    Who’s next?

  82. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 9:50 am

    frank baseball contracts are very expensive to insure, so most contracts are not insured as it adds greatlly to the player expense. i have no idea which if any of the yankees contracts are insured or not, i think the yankees tend to look at it that the other players on the roster are the ‘insurance’ for someone getting injured.

  83. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    Andruw/Damon.

    The Duke of Hurl.

  84. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    “This is about how he deals with agents and how he is perceived., and right now, he’s a joke.”

    I don’t see it that way at all. I see it as slick dealing, and I’m all for it.

    I doubt there is a GM out there who hasn’t said one thing and had a change of heart based on things happening.

    We weren’t getting Tex either.

    There are many more important things happening if life and in the world to get so bogged down with Brian Cashman changing his mind. One is the Jets-Pats game!

    :D

  85. mick January 14th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    This is about how he deals with agents and how he is perceived., and right now, he’s a joke.
    ==========================================
    I take back what I said about “so much for his autonomy.”
    Brian got the deal done that’s all that matters.
    Maybe he was posturing, who cares.

  86. heyman_sux January 14th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    Why all the hate for the opt-outs? If he leaves after a year, it was a one year deal for a reliever. If he leaves after two, a two year deal. Big whoop. And if he chooses to opt out, theres a good chance the Yankees will receive draft picks. The only aspect of this deal that I don’t like is the money. Thats a ton of cash. Also, the talk of him being Mo’s successor is waaaay premature.

    Bottom line, the bullpen/team is now better. But like Chad, I wonder just how much better

  87. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    And AP @ on the half year meal plan.

  88. gbnypat January 14th, 2011 at 9:52 am

    “As Joe Pawlikowski pointed out, the Yankees were 80-7 when they carried a lead into the eighth inning last year. How many of those seven loses would Soriano have turned into wins?”

    The point is not that he’ll be that much better than the Yankee 8th inning guys last year. The point is that he’ll allow the guys who made the Yankees 8th innings so good to pitch in the 7th and 6th. I bet there are more than seven losses when we extend the Yank leads back to the 7th and 6th innings.

  89. Doreen January 14th, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Rich in NJ -

    I don’t see it that way.

    I’m sure he DIDN’T want to have to give up a first rounder.

    I think push came to shove and he did because in the end, the Soriano move makes the team better right now.

    I think it enabled him to get some money shaved off the contract demands.

    And I really don’t think Cashman is perceived as a joke by his peers or his employers. And I don’t think ultimately matters what anyone here thinks of him, good or bad.

  90. mick January 14th, 2011 at 9:53 am

    # joeman January 14th, 2011 at 9:44 am

    joba was never groom to be a ML starter in the minors, he had on the job training which he didn’t pass and now if they try to trade him alone what are they going to get back…not much
    ==============================================
    they could throw him in a deal for zambrano

  91. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Or.

    even better.

    Let’s see what shakes out of the arbitration tree.

    ;)

  92. Fran the original January 14th, 2011 at 9:53 am

    No‘NoLoRoJoSoMo
    ***********
    Trisha and Doreen,
    Too bad Posada doesn’t pitch ;)

    Kate,
    I saw that cover. Pretty funny. I am so ready for Sunday’s game.

  93. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 9:54 am

    “so in other words, i think its more likely that we see NoMoJo(ba).”

    I don’t know gang. I think I’m pretty much alone on this one, but I still see Joba with the Yankees. Why not let him eat up some innings? Maybe he goes out there and proves his worth. There will be an eighth-inning spot opening up at some point.

    And maybe I’m just a hopeless dreamer. Time will tell!

  94. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 9:54 am

    i dont know where that ‘sweet caroline’ stuff comes from but i believe someone’s pulling your tail there. someone who knows just how to push yankees fan’s buttons, too, lol!

  95. heyman_sux January 14th, 2011 at 9:54 am

    The point is not that he?ll be that much better than the Yankee 8th inning guys last year. The point is that he?ll allow the guys who made the Yankees 8th innings so good to pitch in the 7th and 6th. I bet there are more than seven losses when we extend the Yank leads back to the 7th and 6th innings.
    _____

    As Chad pointed out, the Yankees were 29-30 with Kerry Wood holding down the eigth and Joba/D Rob trickling down to earlier innings. Obviously that has something to do with the starting pitching they were getting late last season – but there’s no reasonn to expect that has improved…

  96. mick January 14th, 2011 at 9:54 am

    I think it enabled him to get some money shaved off the contract demands.
    ————————————————————–
    There ya go Doreen.

  97. RadioKev January 14th, 2011 at 9:55 am

    On paper the positives outweigh the negatives, but who knows? He could blow out an arm or get into a deep funk like some set up men/closers get in to. Risky move for all that money, but the Yankees can (literally) afford to take risks.

    I like Chad’s analysis on this one.

  98. Shame Spencer January 14th, 2011 at 9:55 am

    Trisha – very, VERY true :D

    I just don’t get why everyone expects that what Cash says is gospel and if it turns out not to be he must be getting squeezed by management. Maybe its just because I’m a Devils fan (a team where assistant coaches..even if running a practice.. aren’t allowed to speak to the media as a rule), but keeping people guessing seems like a GOOD strategy, no?

  99. JoeyA January 14th, 2011 at 9:56 am

    If there is one free agent that truly got away this offseason, if we are to believe the notion that Lee would NEVER have signed with the Yankees….

    It’s Jorge De La Rosa.

    I think, at the time his market was materializing, we were still very in on Cliff Lee.

    IMO, thats the only area of this offseason that Cash & Co. dropped the ball.

  100. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 9:56 am

    “Trisha and Doreen,
    Too bad Posada doesn’t pitch ;)

    :lol:

    “The point is not that he’ll be that much better than the Yankee 8th inning guys last year. The point is that he’ll allow the guys who made the Yankees 8th innings so good to pitch in the 7th and 6th. I bet there are more than seven losses when we extend the Yank leads back to the 7th and 6th innings.”

    BINGO!

  101. mick January 14th, 2011 at 9:57 am

    How about this:
    6th-Joba
    7th-Robo-Feliciano
    8th-So
    9th-Mo

    Lockdown.

  102. Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 9:58 am

    “I doubt there is a GM out there who hasn’t said one thing and had a change of heart based on things happening.”

    This issue is: Does the misdirection help the team in negotiations.

    “We weren’t getting Tex either.”

    But there were back channels to let him know there was interest to keep him from signing with the RS.

    With Soriano, that wasn’t the case. There was no interest according to all reports, and they couldn’t have paid him more.

    Plus, Cashman was right. Giving up a 1st round pick in a strong draft for a setup reliever isn’t worth it.

    “There are many more important things happening if life and in the world to get so bogged down with Brian Cashman changing his mind. One is the Jets-Pats game!”

    Bogged down because I expressed an opinion? I don’t think so.

  103. joeman January 14th, 2011 at 9:58 am

    # mick January 14th, 2011 at 9:53 am

    # joeman January 14th, 2011 at 9:44 am

    joba was never groom to be a ML starter in the minors, he had on the job training which he didn’t pass and now if they try to trade him alone what are they going to get back…not much
    ==============================================
    they could throw him in a deal for zambrano
    ——————————————————-
    have to agree about Big Z ….that would push the Yankees back to being favorites(AL) to play in the 11 WS

  104. BIG AL January 14th, 2011 at 9:58 am

    Good morning all.

    I think the statement that all this could mean is an extra 7 wins is false. First, with the BP being that much deeper, how many more games will the Yankees take into the 8th with the lead, due to the fact you can use the strength of the BP earlier, and don’t need to save them for the 8th. Second, even if it only added 7 wins, that’s the difference between a WC and division championship finish, and home field advantage, I’ll take that.

    Now your SP only needs to give you 5 good innings, and we know CC and Phil will go deeper, resting the BP when they pitch. I like this deal.

    Those that complained Cashman should make this deal, are now complaining he paid too much, when they ever be happy.

  105. BoJo January 14th, 2011 at 9:59 am

    Good morning folks

    Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 9:46 am
    ++++++++++++++
    I would have to disagree. Cashman was playing poker with Boras–who was originally demanding 4 years for Soriano. Saying the Yankees did not need Soriano allowed Cashman to bring down the cost.

  106. joeman January 14th, 2011 at 10:00 am

    # mick January 14th, 2011 at 9:57 am

    How about this:
    6th-Joba
    7th-Robo-Feliciano
    8th-So
    9th-Mo

    Lockdown.
    ——————————-
    so the starters are going to pitch 5 innings…..prob right about 3 of them

  107. BIG AL January 14th, 2011 at 10:00 am

    One more thought, Cashman saying he wouldn’t sign Soriano, may have kept the price lower than it would have been, if other teams interested thought the Yankees were still in play.

  108. mick January 14th, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Giving up a 1st round pick in a strong draft for a setup reliever
    ======================================
    He is more than a set-up man.
    Isn’t the argument to get the FA and you get a leg up on an extension or re-sign?

  109. Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 10:02 am

    Doreen

    “I don’t see it that way.”

    I sensed that…

    “I’m sure he DIDN’T want to have to give up a first rounder.”

    It was the only way to get him. So why say anything?

    “I think push came to shove and he did because in the end, the Soriano move makes the team better right now.”

    He knew that when he made the statement last week.

    “I think it enabled him to get some money shaved off the contract demands.”

    Based on what? He gave him closer money with opt outs to make more. There was no real interest in him as a closer, otherwise he would have signed.

    “And I really don’t think Cashman is perceived as a joke by his peers or his employers. And I don’t think ultimately matters what anyone here thinks of him, good or bad.”

    You’re right. When he says something, you can take it to the bank.

  110. BoJo January 14th, 2011 at 10:02 am

    YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 9:47 am
    ++++++++++++
    Let me know when you have a direct line to Cashman.

    IMO, Joba has to get a second chance at starting. He was rushed before like Brandon Morrow, but has just as much talent. I think most teams would love to have Brandon Morrow in their rotation now.

  111. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 10:03 am

    “…but keeping people guessing seems like a GOOD strategy, no?”

    HELL yeah! I’m all for it. Yankee fans have to get over thinking they have the right to know everything that is happening all the time! You just whip yourself into a frenzy if you get too hung up on trying to outthink every move the Yanks are going to make.

    Let if unfold and enjoy it. For all you know this team is the one who will win the 2011 WS!

  112. mick January 14th, 2011 at 10:03 am

    How about this:
    6th-Joba
    7th-Robo-Feliciano
    8th-So
    9th-Mo

    Lockdown.
    ——————————-
    so the starters are going to pitch 5 innings…..prob right about 3 of them
    ============================
    not every day…was thinking Nova….and ????

  113. Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 10:04 am

    “I would have to disagree. Cashman was playing poker with Boras–who was originally demanding 4 years for Soriano. Saying the Yankees did not need Soriano allowed Cashman to bring down the cost.”

    There was no market for Soriano at $10m a year for four years or three years.

    The opt outs make it better than a four year deal.

  114. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 10:04 am

    “One more thought, Cashman saying he wouldn’t sign Soriano, may have kept the price lower than it would have been, if other teams interested thought the Yankees were still in play.”

    :)

    There ya go.

    Keep ‘em honest Big Al. I’m off for a walk in our winter wonderland.

    Later y’all!

    :)

  115. Bronx Jeers January 14th, 2011 at 10:04 am

    MTU,

    I think that on the majority of MLB teams Joba would have been put in the rotation last season.

    He frustrates me as well but I do like him. Sometimes I feel that this just isn’t the right environment for him to thrive in. Bright lights, Big city…

  116. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 10:05 am

    cashman haters are cashman haters, nothing will change thier stripes. if he traded montero for pujols, they would complain that montero is younger and pujols looks like he’s taking a crap in the batters box.

  117. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:06 am

    Al-

    How are you this morning ?

    :)

  118. Mell January 14th, 2011 at 10:06 am

    “Saying the Yankees did not need Soriano allowed Cashman to bring down the cost”

    No it didn’t. The market brought down the cost. Fact is, there’s zero evidence to suggest anyone else was going near where the Yankees went.

  119. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:06 am

    Jeers-

    Somewhere closer to home might just be better.

  120. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 10:06 am

    “Bogged down because I expressed an opinion? I don’t think so.”

    Upset any better? If it’s just opinion with no pent-up emotion behind it, then you are definitely good to go.

  121. BoJo January 14th, 2011 at 10:06 am

    “As Joe Pawlikowski pointed out, the Yankees were 80-7 when they carried a lead into the eighth inning last year. How many of those seven loses would Soriano have turned into wins?”
    ++++++++++++
    A great example of how looking at one stat blinds one from looking at the big picture.

    Specifically, if Soriano saves 2 or 3 of those games, the Yankees would have won home field advantage throughout the play-offs.

    If Soriano is locked in to closing the 8th, the other pitchers can save games in the 7th and 6th, adding more games to our win column.

    In a season that might be a very tight race with the Red Sox, each of those wins might loom very large in terms of our play-off situation.

  122. BIG AL January 14th, 2011 at 10:06 am

    YsGuy -

    As the saying goes, You hit the nail on the head!

  123. joeman January 14th, 2011 at 10:07 am

    # Bronx Jeers January 14th, 2011 at 10:04 am

    MTU,

    I think that on the majority of MLB teams Joba would have been put in the rotation last season.

    He frustrates me as well but I do like him. Sometimes I feel that this just isn’t the right environment for him to thrive in. Bright lights, Big city…
    ————————————————————————————
    midwest is the place for him…..laid back & dim lights

  124. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 10:07 am

    i personally couldnt care less if cashman was just lying for the fun of it. it means nothing.

  125. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    The only thing I’m at all concerned about with Soriano is that he stays healthy for as long as we have him.

  126. Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    “Upset any better? If it’s just opinion with no pent-up emotion behind it, then you are definitely good to go.”

    It’s baseball, not real life. The Yankees can go 0-162 and if my work and family are good, I”m fine.

    Nope, merely expressing an opinion.

  127. pat January 14th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    Life is hardly ever as black and white as many here choose to see it.

    Cashman gave up a 1st round pick so either they can sign someone who falls to them later above slot or put the money into an international signing- shades of grey.

    Maybe the best alternative was trading someone almost major league ready for a pitcher with question marks so trading pick #31 with potential to get more of a known quantity was the smarter move- shades of grey.

  128. Fran the original January 14th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    Big Al,

    Agree with you about 7 wins, especially in the AL East. The division is usually so close every season.

    Off to run some errands. See you all later.

  129. BoJo January 14th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    Mell January 14th, 2011 at 10:06 am

    “Saying the Yankees did not need Soriano allowed Cashman to bring down the cost”

    No it didn’t. The market brought down the cost. Fact is, there’s zero evidence to suggest anyone else was going near where the Yankees went.
    ++++++++++++
    You nor I know what Boras was asking for, regardless of the market. We have seen him hold players out until March to get his price when there were no other bidders.

    So yes, Cashman was playing poker IMO, and it worked.

  130. BIG AL January 14th, 2011 at 10:09 am

    MTU -

    Good morning Mike. Taking the little ones to the vet later for their 3 year rabbies shots, other than that, an easy day ahead. Is the sun out by you, or are you still fighting those storms?

  131. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Al-

    It’s blues skies and clear sailing all the way.

    And for me too.

    ;)

  132. Shame Spencer January 14th, 2011 at 10:11 am

    I just find it extremely amusing that people (a large number being east coast folks, especially) want to take everything Cashman says at face value. Do you guys operate like this with everyone you know?

    Example: I make an appointment at my doctor’s office for 3pm. What time do you all think I plan to REALLY see my doctor? If I’m lucky, by 3:30pm-4:00pm. Do I then NOT trust my doctor when he tells me I need a CAT scan because he told me my appointment was supposed to be at 3pm??

  133. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 10:11 am

    lol, im still cracking up about the sweet caroline thing! that is a masterful job of button-pushing!

  134. Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 10:13 am

    “So yes, Cashman was playing poker IMO, and it worked.”

    If this worked, tell me what would have had to have happened for you to say that it didn’t work?

  135. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:14 am

    Cashman seemed like a deer caught in the headlights most of this off season.

    IF he was over ruled this one time I think it may have been a good thing. That doesn’t undercut him IMO.

    As I said earlier, he isn’t an Emperor nor should he be.

  136. Doreen January 14th, 2011 at 10:14 am

    I don’t care about the cost.

    It’s a tedious argument.

    They spend too much? Yankees raked over the coals.

    They spend too little? Yankees raked over the coals.

    They trade prospects? Yankees raked over the coals.

    They hold onto prospects? Yankees raked over the coals.

    Tedious.

  137. blake January 14th, 2011 at 10:14 am

    If they do put Joba back in the rotation should he make a few starts at Scranton to begin the season?

  138. mick January 14th, 2011 at 10:14 am

    know?

    Example: I make an appointment at my doctor’s office for 3pm. What time do you all think I plan to REALLY see my doctor? If I’m lucky, by 3:30pm-4:00pm. Do I then NOT trust my doctor when he tells me I need a CAT scan because he told me my appointment was supposed to be at 3pm??
    ===================================================
    If it was your foot doctor maybe. not your vet tho.

  139. 108 stitches January 14th, 2011 at 10:16 am

    joeman January 14th, 2011 at 9:58 am
    # mick January 14th, 2011 at 9:53 am

    # joeman January 14th, 2011 at 9:44 am

    joba was never groom to be a ML starter in the minors, he had on the job training which he didn’t pass and now if they try to trade him alone what are they going to get back…not much
    ==============================================
    they could throw him in a deal for zambrano
    ——————————————————-
    have to agree about Big Z ….that would push the Yankees back to being favorites(AL) to play in the 11 WS

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I concur. There’s still money left and hopefully the Cubs will absorb some of Zambrano’s remaining 2-year deal. Expand the deal by doing a swap of Chamberlain for Marshall.
    Brackman could be ready by June.
    Money coming off the books after 2011 for Posada, Marte, and Igawa.

  140. Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 10:17 am

    “I just find it extremely amusing that people (a large number being east coast folks, especially) want to take everything Cashman says at face value. Do you guys operate like this with everyone you know?”

    Do you give everyone a pass no matter what they say?

  141. joeman January 14th, 2011 at 10:17 am

    # blake January 14th, 2011 at 10:14 am

    If they do put Joba back in the rotation should he make a few starts at Scranton to begin the season?
    ——————————————————————–
    would keep him there until he’s ready….you’ll see a different pitcher then

  142. Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 10:17 am

    “If they do put Joba back in the rotation should he make a few starts at Scranton to begin the season?”

    Wouldn’t he have to pass through waivers?

  143. BoJo January 14th, 2011 at 10:17 am

    Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 10:04 am

    “I would have to disagree. Cashman was playing poker with Boras–who was originally demanding 4 years for Soriano. Saying the Yankees did not need Soriano allowed Cashman to bring down the cost.”

    There was no market for Soriano at $10m a year for four years or three years.

    The opt outs make it better than a four year deal.
    ++++++++++++++++++++
    I was advocating a 1 year deal with options last week to get Soriano. We can only hope he walks and gets us 2 draft picks next year! That woulod mean he had a great year setting up and we won a lot of games…

  144. Bob January 14th, 2011 at 10:18 am

    I Like the move, it makes the team stronger. And why worry about losing the draft pick? Down the road the Yankees can just sign or give big money too, some young talented 17 yr old kid from a foreign country to replace this lost draft pick.

  145. blake January 14th, 2011 at 10:19 am

    Rich,

    Would he? If so then obviously you can’t do it.

  146. Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 10:19 am

    “I was advocating a 1 year deal with options last week to get Soriano. We can only hope he walks and gets us 2 draft picks next year! That woulod mean he had a great year setting up and we won a lot of games…”

    I agree, but I don’t see how Cash’s flipflop facilitated that.

  147. Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 10:19 am

    blake

    I thought he was out of option years. (anyone?)

  148. Against All Odds January 14th, 2011 at 10:19 am

    # YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 9:45 am

    i dont think we’ll see joba back to the rotation in the yankees system. its just too much drama, too much pressure and too much of a media circus when they move him. also i dont think he reacted well to the last 2 times he was switched.

    i think he gets traded if he can help bring back a starter. they can keep him as the , what, 5th inning guy (a spot usually reserved for a longman or someone who just got off the scranton express bus), but i think this signing screams that they have little confidence in ever seeing the 2007 joba again.

    ————————————————–

    Oh yea tells Joba two things 1 we don’t believe you could set up Mo and 2 you’re not the future closer either.

  149. BoJo January 14th, 2011 at 10:19 am

    Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 10:13 am

    “So yes, Cashman was playing poker IMO, and it worked.”

    If this worked, tell me what would have had to have happened for you to say that it didn’t work?
    ++++++++++++
    Sure–if Boras held Soriano out until mid Feb and then got 4 years, I would say it failed.

  150. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Rich-

    he is. He would have to pass thru waivers uless they make up an injury and do a rehab assignment.

  151. BIG AL January 14th, 2011 at 10:20 am

    blake -

    Joba is out of options. He could only go to SWB on a rehab.

    If they extended him in ST, said his arm was sore, and had him rehab in SWB, I guess they could buy some time, but not enough to make a difference.

    If the Yankees wanted Joba to start, which I don’t believe is the case, they’d have told him to change his off season routine, and report early to ST. Can’t see it happening.

  152. Mell January 14th, 2011 at 10:21 am

    “You nor I know what Boras was asking for”

    Then why did you pretend to know?

  153. joeman January 14th, 2011 at 10:21 am

    get a #2 or #3 SP and bring on the RS nation……..

  154. BIG AL January 14th, 2011 at 10:21 am

    Catch you all later.

  155. Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 10:21 am

    “Sure–if Boras held Soriano out until mid Feb and then got 4 years, I would say it failed”

    I meant Cashman’s “strategy.”

    Boras won.

  156. randy l. January 14th, 2011 at 10:22 am

    “i dont think we’ll see joba back to the rotation in the yankees system.”

    joba has value in the bullpen, but 7th inning guys are fairly easy to develop or acquire so they’re not nearly as valuable as a third starter which joba esily has the potential to be.

    it seems like it’s become an ego thing with cashman concerning joba. i understand his annoyance with joba because joba is an underachiever who is high maintenance, but if cashman is going to take on the responsibility of being in a leadership position it goes with the territory that he’s supposed to motivate everyone to be their best.joba is no exception.

    it’s just a major pout on cashman’s part to abbrogate that responsibility to provide leadership to joba. letting him underachieve in a lessened bullpen role is not tough love . it’s simply cashman being as lazy as joba and not pushing himself to do his job of getting the most out of players.

    it’s not going to be easy for cashman to continue his pout with joba because the national media has picked up on the absurdity of it. the onlyway cashman can a stop to the speculation on why joba isn’t starting is to get another starter.

    now he may do that and get himslef off the hot seat, but how much is he going to have to spend to get someone who will be no better than joba would be?

    if i’m not mistaken, it’s cashman’s job to get the best players possible for the lowest price possible.
    paying more for someone to do a job joba can do seems like cashman is putting his personal pout ahead of the yankees best interest.

  157. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:22 am

    Al-

    Joba has not shown any inclination to better his position.

    It appears he is content to wallow in the reliever’s pit.

    That’s on him.

  158. West Coast Yankee Fan January 14th, 2011 at 10:22 am

    I wasn’t expecting this deal. Thinking it over, I believe it’s a possibility that Cashman was against the Soriano move, his prior statements suggest that. Hal might have overruled him – worried that negative fan reaction this winter would effect their bottom line.

    They are still $20 million under last year’s payroll, so Hal may have felt making this move was a win-win for him. Judging from the positive fan reaction all across the bloggosphere, he was right.

  159. BoJo January 14th, 2011 at 10:24 am

    We had this discussion yesterday. Joba could be held back in extended ST claiming injury, and he would then have 31 days to rehab in Tampa or SWB. It woiuld give him time to get more instruction, but if so, the Yankees should start immediately so as to not waste anytime.

    I frankly am not sure what the extra time in minors would do for him that can’t be done with Rothschild in majors. He IMO needs an arm angle adjustment and more encouragement from pitching coach…not a total revamp of his mechanics like Halladay had.

  160. Against All Odds January 14th, 2011 at 10:24 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 9:54 am

    “so in other words, i think its more likely that we see NoMoJo(ba).”

    I don’t know gang. I think I’m pretty much alone on this one, but I still see Joba with the Yankees. Why not let him eat up some innings? Maybe he goes out there and proves his worth. There will be an eighth-inning spot opening up at some point.

    —————————————

    So he’d go from future closer to future eighth inning guy…how the mighty have fallen

  161. joeman January 14th, 2011 at 10:25 am

    things come in three’s….next up a SP followed by a right handed bat….

  162. Shame Spencer January 14th, 2011 at 10:26 am

    “Do you give everyone a pass no matter what they say?”

    No Rich – I’m a natural cynic so I tend to NOT believe what comes out of most peoples mouth..or at least I feel the need to scrutinize it as opposed to taking it as fact. I don’t expect the truth from people.. especially highly paid officials of a sports franchise. But hey, what do I know?

  163. blake January 14th, 2011 at 10:26 am

    Yes….make up an injury ;) .

    AL, he’s more valuable as a starter than he is pitching the 6th inning. If he’s not going to set up, and he’s not the closer of the future then IMO they need to either make him a starter again or trade him. Guys to pitch the 6th inning are a dime a dozen and he was too good in spurts in 09 to not explore that road again. He’s still young enough…..give Rothschild a shot….

  164. BoJo January 14th, 2011 at 10:27 am

    Mell January 14th, 2011 at 10:21 am

    “You nor I know what Boras was asking for”

    Then why did you pretend to know?
    ++++++++++++
    I am only going by what was written in the press as far as his demands. I can presume that is what he started with based on how people claim he operates historically.

    Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 10:21 am

    “Sure–if Boras held Soriano out until mid Feb and then got 4 years, I would say it failed”

    I meant Cashman’s “strategy.”

    Boras won.
    +++++++++++++
    I think Cashman brought down the price to 3 years and closed the deal a month earlier by claiming he was not interested unless the cost dropped dramatically.

  165. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:28 am

    Who cares if Cashman was over ruled or not ? (Only Cashman)

    Since when have his judgements been so perfect that he cannot be questioned or told to do something he is not necessarily in favor of.

    He has primary responsibility but he isn’t flawless.

    Sometimes a consultation is a good thing.

    Maybe it will turn out that way in this instance.

    Personally, I’m not sorry he seems to have gotten a bit of a kick in the pants if that’s even what happened.

  166. J. Alfred Prufrock January 14th, 2011 at 10:28 am

    # West Coast Yankee Fan January 14th, 2011 at 12:56 am

    The Joba as a starter stuff here is just amazing, on and on and on. He’s not going to start, it would be a ridiculous move that would reek of desperation and would be doomed to fail. Then what. When he sucks, again, as a starter. You are going to tell him, never mind Joba, back to the pen? I am sure his trade value will be sky high then right?

    ////
    A guy who averages 94.6 mph on his FB and can credibly throw a slider/change/curve hardly represents a menace to a starting rotation.”doomed to fail,” is just so melodramatic I can hardly speak to it.Chamberlain re-entering the rotation shows up as a number 4 SP,not the staff ace.get a grip.it makes absolute sense to slide him back in.

  167. BoJo January 14th, 2011 at 10:28 am

    blake January 14th, 2011 at 10:26 am

    Yes….make up an injury .
    +++++++++++++
    No need to. If Joba reports out of shape, it will take about 30 days to remove Girardi’s foot from his butt. :-)

  168. blake January 14th, 2011 at 10:28 am

    Randy,

    Not only is a 3rd started more valueable than a middle reliever, a mediocre 5th starter is more valuable than a middle reliever.

  169. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Blake-

    I think you may have answered your own question.

    :)

  170. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 10:30 am

    you’re never gonna know why cashman said what he said. remember this is a boras client, so you have no idea what all the calculations were that went into this negotiation, and you likely will never know. so you have no idea what cashman had in mind when he said what he said. now its a done deal, take it at face value and forget about what went into the negotiations.
    ” Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made” – Otto von Bismarck. add baseball contract negotiations to that list…

  171. mick January 14th, 2011 at 10:30 am

    # joeman January 14th, 2011 at 10:25 am

    things come in three’s….next up a SP followed by a right handed bat….

    ============================
    Zambrano and Jones come on down…

  172. BoJo January 14th, 2011 at 10:31 am

    MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:28 am
    ++==+++
    I think we were also talking about a week ago about what process do the Yankees have in place to question their initial judgments or opinions. It is good to see that they can change their minds (if that is what happened here).

  173. Shame Spencer January 14th, 2011 at 10:31 am

    MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:28 am

    Who cares if Cashman was over ruled or not ? (Only Cashman)

    ——————————

    THANK YOU!

  174. JWALDMAN January 14th, 2011 at 10:32 am

    Lets see 8th inning Soriano, Ninth inning Mariano. Soriano+Mariano=NONO for every other team we face this year!!!

    I don’t like that they spent so much money but I’m glad they finally did SOMETHING!

  175. blake January 14th, 2011 at 10:35 am

    MTU,

    wait what was my question?

  176. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:36 am

    Alright.

    progress.

    Let’s keep moving the ball.

    Don’t quit now.

    Oops ! wrong sport.

    :)

  177. BoJo January 14th, 2011 at 10:36 am

    blake January 14th, 2011 at 10:35 am

    MTU,

    wait what was my question?
    ++++++++++++
    That’s question #2…sorry but 1 to a customer. :-)

  178. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 10:37 am

    i’ve made ‘joba is fat’ jokes and we’ve all heard people say that joba has come to camp out of shape at some point. but lets face it, hes not a sculpted guy, he’s never gonna be, just like cc or david wells. (both of whom were actually very good atheletes and play(ed) excellent defense. is there really some kind of ‘shape’ that is going to help joba out or is it just that he will continue to be called out of shape until his results are better? has he really been out of shape at the start of camp.?
    i remember when people were calling cano lazy a few years back but the coaches said it wasnt true, did he actually change his habits, or did his on field results just catch up to his potential?

    im sure there were alot of comments about both wells and sabathia’s shape before they had success.

  179. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:38 am

    Blake-

    Your implicit question was , “what is going to happen to Joba ?”

    You answered it by yourself I thought.

    :)

  180. J. Alfred Prufrock January 14th, 2011 at 10:38 am

    in fact WC,I can’t imagine the yanks having signed Soriano if they did not have that signing in balance with either Chamberlain returning to the rotation or being dealt in a package,as I said when the news broke.they didn’t get this guy in a vacuum.they can save $$ and young talent if Joba,only 25 himself & not quite yet in the lost cause dept,could even approach 2008,which isn’t even necessary for him to succeed.but i’m not prepared to say he can’t recapture what he did then.after all, he DID it.

  181. blake January 14th, 2011 at 10:39 am

    MTU,

    true but secret option 3 is always for them to do nothing and leave him to waste in the middle of the bullpen…..

  182. BoJo January 14th, 2011 at 10:40 am

    I am not sure why anyone can still believe the Cubs will move Zambranno after investing money in acquisitions to help them win a play-off spot.

    They certainly are not going to move a #2 starter for a middle reliever and prospects before the season starts.

    The only viable (IMO) options left for rotation at this point are Joba, Millwood, Chen, Duchscherer, and secret trade (a la Javy)–which I hope is not in the works. I don’t want to give up much when I think Joba can do the job(a).

  183. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:40 am

    I hate to say this but I don’t think the Yankees are too worried about Joba at this point.

    As of now he is a fallen Angel IMO.

    :(

  184. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:41 am

    Blake-

    That may be exactly what they do with him. Sorry to say.

    :(

  185. austinmac January 14th, 2011 at 10:42 am

    MTU,

    When you shake the arbitration tree, I hope we get:

    A peach of a player;
    A player who will be the apple of our eye; and
    A “pear” of good players.

  186. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:42 am

    edit: should have read “aren’t too worried”. sorry. Old age.

  187. BoJo January 14th, 2011 at 10:43 am

    We will all see soon enough what happens.

    Off to work…c u l8r

  188. blake January 14th, 2011 at 10:44 am

    To be honest, im not sure if Joba can have success as a starter again or not. He needs to get in better shape and find a way to better repeat his delievery to do so…..he’s had trouble doing it for one inning, let alone 6+ so its certainly anything but a sure thing. My thing is that they need to find an answer that question for sure before permantley making him a middle reliever…..too much talent there to give up at 25 after one season of starting unless he’s your future closer.

  189. Bronx Jeers January 14th, 2011 at 10:44 am

    Randy,

    I agree and I think it may also be a case of them not wanting any egg on their face by putting Joba back in the rotation. You can only flip flop so many times before you’re considered a punchline.

    That said it certainly doesn’t appear that they think too highly of his skills as he’s basically 1 step away from being a mop up man.

  190. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:44 am

    Austin-

    A Texas-style Shakespeare in our midsts.

    Cool.

    :)

  191. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:47 am

    Blake-

    It’s possible that Joba and Rothschild could make beautiful music together.

    I hope the Yankees allow it.

    For “Auld Lang Syne” if nothing else.

    :)

  192. blake January 14th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    Again we don’t know if the Cubs traded for Garza to potentially replace him and make it more realistic to clear his salary or if they traded for him to add to Zambrano in the rotation……my guess is that they would still love to.move the remained of that contract if they could.

    If you add Pettite or Zambrano (the good one) to the Yankees then they are as good as the Red Sox……maybe better.

  193. Wave Your Hat January 14th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    If Andy stays gone Joba will be in the rotation this year.

  194. West Coast Yankee Fan January 14th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock – I think it’s possible that ithe Soriano signing was Hal’s reaction to the fan’s winter of discontent and the fear it would effect revenue. Accordingly, I am not sure there is any quid-pro-quo with a baseball move connected to Joba.

    There was significant backlash to Hal’s statement last week alluding to not caring what people think. That’s not good business. I wouldn’t want one of my employees saying that.

    But of course, I don’t know, it just seems like a plausible scenario to me.

  195. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 10:49 am

    i think joba still has alot of trade value. people all over the league saw what he brough when he came up, and there are always teams looking for potential that they think they can tap. also , your own underachiever always looks worse to you than he does to everyone else. add to that the perception (true or not) that the yankees’ moving him around in the big fishbowl has been the problem and i think you have alot of teams that still value him quite highly. im not saying that joba gets you a starter but joba plus a less-than-montero prospect likely could.

  196. Wave Your Hat January 14th, 2011 at 10:49 am

    blake-

    Go take a look at the Cubs 2010 pitching stats and you’ll see why the Cubs aren’t trading CZ anytime soon.

  197. Chip January 14th, 2011 at 10:49 am

    1. Yes it makes the Yankees better.

    2. Question is will Joba now move out of the pen?

    3. ESPN.com’s Buster Olney suggests there’s a “major divide of opinion on Soriano within the organization, and that [GM Brian] Cashman’s autonomy in matters of baseball operations may have eroded.” Olney points out that the Yankees now have two of the six relievers in baseball who earn $10MM or more. From MLB TradeRumors

    I couldn’t disagree with Buster’s take more. He may be right, but it’s equally likely that this says nothing about ‘Cashman’s autonomy in matters of baseball operations’ but instead simply illustrates why you should only believe half of what you read and less of what you hear. Just as Brian said “oh there’s no way we can afford CC and other marquee players” the talk of not surrendering a draft pick, of not paying closer money for non-closers; it all may well have been a smokescreen.

    Writers have to stop taking it personally when GMs and executives lie to them and then spinning conspiracy theories.

  198. longtimefan January 14th, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Seems like a desparation move–too much money and a heavily one sided deal in favor of Soriano. Speculation on will this free up Joba as a starter–I certainly hope not–he is not and never will be a major league starter–he was a creation of the media hype a few years back when he came on the scene–overall a good reliever but a sub-par starter.

  199. blake January 14th, 2011 at 10:53 am

    Wave,

    The Cubs would have a pretty solid rotation now with the addition if Garza with or without Zambrano…..whether he’s dealt or not will likely depend on just how much they’d like to move that 38 million. If not now, they certainly could shop him this summer. Im not 100% sold on the idea of him in pinstripes anyway but if they’d listen, I would give Hendry a call just to see.

  200. randy l. January 14th, 2011 at 10:53 am

    “Not only is a 3rd starter more valueable than a middle reliever, a mediocre 5th starter is more valuable than a middle reliever.”

    blake-

    and if they are going to trade joba becacsue they are fed up with him, turning him into a starter for just long enough for him to have some succes at it would allow them to dangle that starting potential
    as trade bait.

    teams have seen what guys like kennedy do when they leave the yankee system. they know there are trade opportuities with the yankees to get undervalued pitchers. if nothing else make joba look like one of these guys.

    and it’s very possible joba will do really well in a starter’s role. then the yankees keep him.that’s what i’d like to see because i really think it sets a bad example to other yankee prospects that they will be allowed to just flounder in the system like joba has.

    i would like joba to be an example that the yankee development system works because management is behind the players and will do everything it can to help them succeed.

  201. blake January 14th, 2011 at 10:54 am

    Joba would have much more trade value if he showed he could still start.

  202. Bronx Jeers January 14th, 2011 at 10:56 am

    “ESPN.com’s Buster Olney suggests there’s a “major divide of opinion on Soriano within the organization, and that [GM Brian] Cashman’s autonomy in matters of baseball operations may have eroded.”

    Well, one could easily say that it’s ” Cashman’s autonomy in matters of baseball operations ” that has put their rather large investment in a precarious situation for next season.

  203. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 10:56 am

    WYH-

    That is a pretty bold prediction. I do not share it. But I hope you are right.

    :)

  204. BoJo January 14th, 2011 at 10:57 am

    Great quote from RAB

    “Before the Yankees started screwing around with Joba’s innings limitations in 2009, he was fantastic as a starter. The guy made 34 full starts from June 2008 through August 2009, meaning he wasn’t pulled early and was allowed to empty the tank. In those 34 starts, he had a 3.54 ERA (3.97 FIP) with 8.50 K/9, 3.84 uIBB/9, and 0.92 HR/9. Opponents had .329 wOBA off him during that time. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to say Joba was some kind of ace caliber starter during this time, but good grief, he was 23 years old basically the whole time. He was better and younger than Phil Hughes was in 2010. If a young kid performs like that in the AL East, you don’t stick him in the bullpen, you keep him in the rotation because at worst, he’s a mid-rotation starter. At best, he’s on his way to becoming something more.”

    See full story here: http://riveraveblues.com/2011/.....now-41224/

  205. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 10:57 am

    chip, bullseye! i think olney is in full backtrack and cover up mode because he said soriano wasnt coming while hayman never waivered. olney’s been getting schooled all winter and his contacts within the yankees organization are beginning to fray as hes not around the team all the time anymore.
    olney should get out of espn, stop trying to compete with the ‘you heard it here first’ crowd and go back to writing about baseball games, which he was much better at.

    or at least work on that stupid grimace he makes into the camera everytime he’s on tv, its ridiculous.

  206. Against All Odds January 14th, 2011 at 10:58 am

    # longtimefan January 14th, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Seems like a desparation move–too much money and a heavily one sided deal in favor of Soriano. Speculation on will this free up Joba as a starter–I certainly hope not–he is not and never will be a major league starter–he was a creation of the media hype a few years back when he came on the scene–overall a good reliever but a sub-par starter.

    ———————————————————–

    wrong on so many levels

  207. blake January 14th, 2011 at 10:59 am

    Randy,

    Agreed. I was saying last winter that if the Yankees weren’t going to revisit Joba as a starter then they should trade him then because he was coming off a season when he had just started and shown flashes of being very good before tiring down the stretch. He has very little trade value now because he’s two years removed from being a SP, he has shown spotty results as a reliever, and he hasn’t used his other two pitches in awhile.

  208. Chuck58 January 14th, 2011 at 11:00 am

    Mac, MTU, let’s hope it’s not a
    “Cartridge in a Bare Tree” hahaha

  209. upstate kate January 14th, 2011 at 11:01 am

    IIRC Joba had inning limits during games b/c he was unhappy/ineffective/whatever w/ the more traditional method of limiting innings pitched by skipping starts. While it may not have worked out as intended, at least some of the blame goes to Joba.

  210. Against All Odds January 14th, 2011 at 11:04 am

    # upstate kate January 14th, 2011 at 11:01 am

    IIRC Joba had inning limits during games b/c he was unhappy/ineffective/whatever w/ the more traditional method of limiting innings pitched by skipping starts. While it may not have worked out as intended, at least some of the blame goes to Joba.

    ————————————————————

    I can blame him for alot of things. Lack of focus, poor conditioning, shaking of the catcher, being stubborn, etc. But I can’t fault him for being angry when his handlers didn’t know how to handle/get him through the season.

  211. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 11:05 am

    i cant get wfan on my computer today. its not a big thing but i do like listening to benigno freakin out about how badlly the jets are going to blow this playoff game.

    unlike all the doom and gloomers on here, he’s acutally funny predicting dire events for his teams. or maybe its just that i think its funny because hes a met/jets guy…

  212. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 11:05 am

    And behind door #3 is ?

    :)

  213. longtimefan January 14th, 2011 at 11:06 am

    Against All Odds

    I assume you feel it is a good contract and Joba would make a premier starter?

  214. blake January 14th, 2011 at 11:06 am

    Kate,

    I think a lot the blame goes to Joba because despite how you’ve been handled a lot of how good you are depends on you IMO…..however I still don’t think that means they should give up on all that talent…..it wouldn’t be the first time a guy “got it” in his mid 20′s and then went on to have a good career. A lot of that is up to Joba but he still has to be given the chance for it to actually happen.

  215. austinmac January 14th, 2011 at 11:07 am

    I don’t know why the Yankees don’t contact Joba and say to him “lose 10-15 pounds by February 20th and we will try you again in the rotation.” Surely, someone could get Joba to understand a starter can earn fabulous amounts of money while a middle reliever generally does not. Maybe they have done so and it has not worked.

    I believe I could get him to see the light and be running every day at 7 a.m. Pride, ego vanity, and money are all means to get most of us to work if presented effectively. I do believe he still has more ability than any other potential 4th or 5th guy, including Nova.

  216. raymagnetic January 14th, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Seems like in July Yankee officials viewed Chamberlain’s work ethic MUCH differently than a lot of fans view his work ethic.

    “What is not possible, at least for now, is sending Chamberlain to the minors for two major reasons: 1) The Yanks feel it would be a terrible message to bust somebody from main set-up man all the way to Scranton in one move, so they will try to fix him outside the eighth inning and 2) They do not believe Chamberlain is failing because of an attitude problem. Yankee officials actually consider Chamberlain a hard worker. In other words they are not looking at this how they viewed a situation with Melky Cabrera in 2008. That season the Yanks thought Cabrera had become lazy and that was a factor in his struggles, so they did demote him in mid-August to Triple-A.”

    http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....CS2bzxyDTJ

  217. Wave Your Hat January 14th, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Of the remaining SP options, Joba is the best choice right now. As of last spring, the Yanks were willing to give him the chance to start, and had one of the five guys ahead of him gotten hurt he would have.

    With the exception of some early outings, Joba pitched effectively in relief in 2010. He has shown more at the major league level than Nova, Mitre or the cast in AA/AAA.

    With the addition of Soriano to the bullpen it just doesn’t make any sense not to give Joba the opportunity to start, which is why I think it will happen.

  218. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Blake-

    I basically agree with you on Joba with one caveat, he should have
    done more to force their hand.

    The fact that he hasn’t is on him.

    ;)

  219. Against All Odds January 14th, 2011 at 11:11 am

    longtimefan January 14th, 2011 at 11:06 am

    Against All Odds

    I assume you feel it is a good contract and Joba would make a premier starter?

    ———————————-

    Yea I like the Soriano deal because it provides the Yankees with a lights out 8th and 9th inning. No Joba wouldn’t be a premier starter because let’s be honest we haven’t seen that guy since 08. If he was slotted in the back end of the pen how much worse could be do than Javy did last yr.

  220. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 11:11 am

    Phil wasnt thrilled to be taken out of the rotation and put in the BP, but he came through and basically saved the yankees bacon. then went back and picked up where he left off as a starter. i think that speaks to the idea that joba himself had alot to do with his own problems.

    but at the same time, it also points out how different people respond differently to thier situation. i dont doubt that joba can be an effective starter, but i just dont know if he can do it here.

    and i disagree about joba’s trade value, i think its still pretty high. other teams are going to value him according to what they thinnk they can get out of him, not according to where he is in the yankees system now.

  221. randy l. January 14th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    “I agree and I think it may also be a case of them not wanting any egg on their face by putting Joba back in the rotation.”

    bronx jeers-

    on the other hand, i think it would put a feather on their cap if joba becomes a good starter.

    as someone who is always having to motivate young employees in my summer business to take business serioulsy and be on their A game each and every day, i don’t understand just pushing joba aside to be a middle reliever .

    if i just let one employee go through the motions and not really be into it what kind of signal is that to everyone else. everyone needs to be pushing themsleves to be at their best. you can’t create a slacker and let them just take up space. either get them going or get them gone.

  222. Wave Your Hat January 14th, 2011 at 11:13 am

    “The fact that he hasn’t is on him”

    With respect I have to disagree with you there MTU. There is no shame in losing a SP competition to Hughes.

    The Yankee organization may be in the midst of a “group think” mistake which I believe they will realize and correct.

  223. West Coast Yankee Fan January 14th, 2011 at 11:13 am

    I believe Joba’s trade value has never been lower. He’s a failed starter and a failed eighth inning setup man. He is a middle relief pitcher. Those are facts.

  224. upstate kate January 14th, 2011 at 11:13 am

    oh I agree Blake..especially as the mom of a teenage boy!

    Just look at Robbie, it took him awhile to figure things out. They gave a little tease of an upcoming Hot Stove feature on Robbie last night. It showed how hard he has been working in the off season, and how he was helping Cervelli and Nunez as well, and trying to be a good role model to the DR kids he meets.

  225. Tom in N.J. January 14th, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Cano is becoming a leader.

  226. upstate kate January 14th, 2011 at 11:16 am

    yeah, he sure is Tom

  227. ac1 January 14th, 2011 at 11:17 am

    I believe they should do like last year. Go into ST and allow Joba to build as a starter, then they can always put him in the pen. He hung in there with Phil most of ST last year. What can it hurt? Even doing that last year, he had some good days last season, mixed in with some awful ones.

  228. West Coast Yankee Fan January 14th, 2011 at 11:17 am

    Balfour got 2 guaranteed with the A’s. That’s the RP market.

  229. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 11:21 am

    WYH-

    I have a slightly different take on that competition.

    First off, I think the deck was stacked to start with.

    Second, and this the really important point, Joba knew he was going to be competing for a starter’s job and instead of coming into camp like he meant buisness, i.e. being the best shape of his life, he showed up in quite the opposite fashion. Bad mistake.

    As far as the “Groupthink” deal you may very well be right on that one, and if you are, I wouldn’t mind seeing it corrected.

    There is no doubt in my mind that Joba’s talent is going to waste at this point. He wouldn’t be the first tragic case of that, and he surely won’t be the last.

    I would love to see that change, and preferably with the Yankees.

    I am not persuaded it will.

    I do hope you are right though. This is certainly one case where i would love to be wrong.

    ;)

  230. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    And WYH-

    Joba was also unlucky because he was sick during part of that “supposed” competition.

  231. J. Alfred Prufrock January 14th, 2011 at 11:26 am

    LOL.I just drove down to the seafood place here in town for a pickup & the WFAN guys were having a lively discussion about Chamberlain’s role. “Why don’t they put this kid back in the rotation,see what he can do?…..”they’ve jerked this kid around so much he doesn’t know whether he’s coming or going…” “I’d take him on the Mets.” “You would?…” “Hell yea. Beltran for Joba. Done.” (of course we’d have to get more than the broken down Beltran).Anyhoo,it’s nice that even dumb people are starting to come around to joba coming around to start.

  232. Cashman needs to go January 14th, 2011 at 11:27 am

    Bleepin finally!!!! Who gives a flying fig if this move was made with or without dopey cashman’s blessing…it was the correct move to make considering that the starting pitching choices are dry…

    why stop there? sign rauch and balfour (and give up the 2nd round draft pick) for the 7th and 6th innings, with robertson/joba/feliciano handling the 5th..and you can NOW go and get bottom of the barrel sludge pitchers like millwood, garcia and bruce bleeping chen – all you need is for them to pitch 4 innings everytime out….

  233. Shame Spencer January 14th, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Funny thing about the Joba debate..

    Does anyone think that the old guard may have been the driving force in putting Joba in the pen? Remember Posada was adamant thats where he belonged. The same goes for Damon, IIRC. Those guys wanted the ring… NOW. And a big part of getting that, they thought, was Joba staying in the pen.

    Not drawing any conclusions here, but its something to think about.

  234. J. Alfred Prufrock January 14th, 2011 at 11:29 am

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 14th, 2011 at 11:13 am
    I believe Joba’s trade value has never been lower. He’s a failed starter and a failed eighth inning setup man. He is a middle relief pitcher. Those are facts
    ///
    more like Startus Interruptus.

  235. blake January 14th, 2011 at 11:29 am

    MTU,

    I agree that he could’ve forced their hand…..but they only had one.spot.last year and Hughes was the clear choice. They have two openings this year currently…..Joba is one.of the best options there.

  236. LGY January 14th, 2011 at 11:32 am

    “I don’t see it that way at all. I see it as slick dealing, and I’m all for it.”

    ————————

    The Yankees paid Soriano top dollar.

    Rafael Soriano has the fifth highest AAV for a reliever in baseball. And this is for a player who has been a closer for a single season and seemingly had no market.

    This was not some sly negotiating by the Yankees.

    They paid Rafael Soriano top shelf closer money to be a set up man, plus they gave him two options to hit the market and make even more money if he chooses.

    The idea that Cashman was lying to gain some negotiating advantage would only carry water if this was actually an advantageous deal to the Yankees.

    But it is not. It is a win all around for Scott Boras. A big win considering the market for Soriano.

  237. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 11:34 am

    id say bad communications might be at work between joba and the yankees. i think both sides tried to accomidate the other side a little too much in the past. joba was trying to be a good soldier and do whatever they asked and the yankees were trying to show they had confidence in him either as a starter or in the BP.
    when they had to cut his innings, the yankees kept him in the rotation as a sign that they wanted whatever they could get out of him instead of shutting him down completly, but joba let it get inside his head a little too much that he was going to start games without having the chance to win them. add to that the possibility that at just about that point, joba was getting tired so it looked like the joba rules had caused him to lose effectivness, which added to the problem.

    then last season, he lost a competition where the yankees were looking at it as a cant lose situation (1 good starter, 1 good eig either way…) joba looked at it as him losing out to someone else (you cant turn off the competitive juices.)

    in the end, though, you are on the hill, you have the ball in your hand and you have to produce, and joba didnt do that after they cut his innings, or from the BP last season.

    the yankees havent found the person who can unlock the mind of joba and get his head in the right place, and joba is stubborn and doesnt see the yankees putting him in important situations as them showing confidence in him.

    for all those reasons and more, i think a change of scenery might very well be in order. maybe the new pitching coach can reach him and find out what’s going on in that head of his, but maybe its time to get what you can for the guy and move on.

    i agree with randy (!!!) that you cant just let him linger somewhere in the middle.

  238. Yankee Trader January 14th, 2011 at 11:35 am

    Grant Balfour is close to signing with A’s.

  239. blake January 14th, 2011 at 11:36 am

    LGY,

    I get your points on Soriano….he does make them better though and if this triggers moving Joba to the rotation or frees up him or someone else to go in a deal for a starter then it makes a lot of sense..

  240. LGY January 14th, 2011 at 11:36 am

    “Cashman gave up a 1st round pick so either they can sign someone who falls to them later above slot or put the money into an international signing- shades of grey.”

    ———————

    If the Yankees could just spend overslot later in the draft or put the money into a big name international signing, then they and many other teams that surrender first round picks would do it every year.

    There is a reason certain players are drafted in the first round and there is a reason this upcoming draft has been described as so talent rich, especially in the first round.

    The Yankees can not make up for losing this draft pick through other avenues with amateur players. It is just not a realistic option based on prior history, talent available, and the increasing number of teams willing to go overslot.

  241. heyman_sux January 14th, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Does anyone think that the old guard may have been the driving force in putting Joba in the pen?
    ________

    I think the players have zero input regarding player utilization. If they do, the GM should be fired, because he no longer serves a function

  242. MTU January 14th, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Blake-

    It seems to me that they have dug in their heels on this one but I hope you are right along with any others who still believe there is a chance.

    It makes sense, and maybe necessity will turn out to be the Mother of invention, or should I say, re-invention.

    We’ll see.

    :)

  243. longtimefan January 14th, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Odds

    I assume you meant the back end of the rotation–not too many major league pitchers could be worse than Javy was last year–so that point is moot–IMO he never will be an adequate starting pitcher and Soriano has a history of DL stints-very good pitcher when healthy but not worth that kind of money–twice as much as Benoit

  244. Tom in N.J. January 14th, 2011 at 11:38 am

    I don’t think anyone can claim that they know what Chamberlain’s ‘problems’ are.

  245. West Coast Yankee Fan January 14th, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Baseball analysis aside, this proves again why Scott Boras is the best agent in sports. He is totally immersed in the details, is dedicated to his clients, is incredibly well prepared due to a stellar, top-drawer team at his company and has a great mind for creative detail and deal making. And he walks on the edge of appropriateness, a superb trait if you want to dominate your profession. The great ones all do.

  246. G. Love January 14th, 2011 at 11:39 am

    While I think it’s admirable that some of you have this fantasy that the Yankees only promote from within, it’s not the team your root for.

    The team you root for goes for it every year and this case they are going for it with some brains in their head.

    They didn’t surrender anything. Draft picks are not sure things. This isn’t the NFL or NBA, although in both of those leagues guys drafted at the end of the 1st round in the 30′s rarely turn out to be sure things.

    This was a great deal where we added a big talent. The best pitcher on the market and honestly the 2nd best free agent pitcher after Lee.

    If Soriano goes out and gets hurt, it stinks, but that risk is there with any acquisition.

    Fact is this guy was a lights out closer last year and he has worked in a set up role before so we’re not asking him to do anything novel.

    You look at our pen on paper and I’ll go to war with it any day. We have two of the best 3 closers in the AL, Soria being one of those three, we have a lefty killer in Feliciano, we have a 2nd lefty who can give length in Logan and we have Robertsen and Joba who are better than any other team’s middle relief corps in baseball. On other teams they would be pushed into closer and 8th inning roles whether they could handle them or not.

    Our dynasty teams had bullpens this loaded and versatile and they were an asset.

    Now it’s time to shore up this rotation. If I were Andy and I still had the itch I’d come back with a pen like this supporting my starts.

    If he doesn’t come back some kind of pitcher needs to be brought in so Mitre can be a strict long guy.

    It was a great move last night and it’s still a great move this morning. The Yankees saw a chance in the system to make the team better and they took it.

    If they didn’t they would have had to trade prospects during the season to acquire a guy like this, just like they had to do with Wood.

    It’s okay to go into the season with the pieces you know you’re going to need.

  247. Yankee Trader January 14th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    LGY-

    If Soriano opts out after the first year he and Boras will have to compete with closer money for FA’s Bell, Broxton, Franklin, Capps, Papelbon, and if options not picked up-Rodriguez, Nathan, Valverde, and Lidge.

  248. Bronx Jeers January 14th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Randy,

    I really think last season was the time when Joba should have been given the chance to spread his wings and either fly or fall to earth. I’ve said it time and time again that Joba would have been a starter last season the the vast majority of MLB teams given his development to that point.

    Then again as a paying customer, I do understand their reluctance to go a season with both Phil and Joba learning the ropes. A similar plan failed miserably in 2008.

    Of course only now do we know that keeping Joba in the rotation would have produced a result last season no worse than what Javy provided and would have put them in better shape for 2011.

    I’m definitely not a member of the Cashman cheerleading squad but I do understand the difficulty in developing starting pitching while also making sure that your $200MM team isn’t a flop.

  249. ac1 January 14th, 2011 at 11:42 am

    The idea that this is such a talent rich draft is all well and good. unless the yankees were going to get something great at 31, and he was going to be here in less than 4 years, i dont really see what difference it makes.

    again, there is ZERO chance that soriano is here all 3 years, unless he gets Pavanoed.

  250. blake January 14th, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Maybe the Yanks are waiting for Joba to ask to be a starter again…….you know the whole “you have to ask for a raise before getting one deal”……maybe they want him to show initiative.

  251. ac1 January 14th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    f Soriano opts out after the first year he and Boras will have to compete with closer money for FA’s Bell, Broxton, Franklin, Capps, Papelbon, and if options not picked up-Rodriguez, Nathan, Valverde, and Lidge.

    ___

    He is better than most if not all of them. Paps and k-Rod would want similar if not more money than Soriano, Valverde will also be due a HUGE pay raise, Bell too. The rest arent in the same league.

  252. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 11:44 am

    tom, thats why i used terms like ‘maybe’ and ‘i think’ when i was postulating about what ‘could be’ the problem with the yankees and joba.

    obviously nobody knows or there wouldnt be any problems to wonder about.

  253. LGY January 14th, 2011 at 11:44 am

    YT

    I think Soriano is here for all 3 years unless they get rid of draft pick compensation.

  254. BIG AL January 14th, 2011 at 11:47 am

    joeman January 14th, 2011 at 9:44 am
    joba was never groom to be a ML starter in the minors, he had on the job training which he didn’t pass and now if they try to trade him alone what are they going to get back…not much

    *********************************************
    Joba was a starter throughout college, and his time in the Yankees farm system. He was not a RP until he came to NY.

  255. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 11:48 am

    blake, i think you have a good point. i dont know if you flat out ask him what he wants, but maybe sending rothschild out ot have a nice quiet chat with him and find out what his thinking is would be a good idea (if they havent already)

    i dont think you can just have joba decide what his place is, but maybe you can listen him out and see where he is, and maybe even convince him that whatever role you have in mind for him, that it was his idea all along.

    worth a try!

  256. LGY January 14th, 2011 at 11:50 am

    Blake

    I agree. Don’t get me wrong, I am very happy the Yankees are a better team than they were yesterday (although as you know I don’t think they are that much better than most because I’m less impressed with Soriano as a player).

    I’m also waiting to see if this leads to another move like you mention with Joba to really evaluate how I feel about this.

  257. Chip January 14th, 2011 at 11:50 am

    Silly comment by Buster on Twitter – the Yankees could have done a sign and trade with the Rays for Balfour and kept their draft pick.

    Why is this silly:

    1. Soriano’s better than Balfour

    2. We have no idea what sort of prospect the Rays would have wanted for Balfour – it’s probably better to give up a late 1st round pick that they can replenish by going above slot in rounds 2 through whatever it is – and also exploiting the international FA market.

  258. blake January 14th, 2011 at 11:50 am

    Y’s,

    I agree. They may have already done that for all we know.

  259. Yankee Trader January 14th, 2011 at 11:51 am

    LGY-
    Agree. Included list of 5 highest paid closers’

    Mariano Rivera (NYY): 15M/yr
    Brad Lidge (PHI): 12.5M/yr
    Francisco Rodriguez (NYM): 12.3M/yr
    Joe Nathan (MIN): 11.75M/yr
    Francisco Cordero (CIN): 11.5M/yr

  260. G. Love January 14th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    One last thing about the draft pick.

    Cashman botched up the Gerit Cole selection and we lost that pick (only to get it back the following season).

    Did losing out on that pick send the future of the minor league system back into some tailspin?

    No.

  261. blake January 14th, 2011 at 11:55 am

    LgY,

    Fair enough. It was an overpay no question but the ways things have played out he was really about all that was left via free agency to make a real difference….both directly and indirectly if other moves are made. Igawa and Marte come off the books after this season….this is essentially giving Soriano their money plus a couple extra million.

  262. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 11:59 am

    sometimes you gotta wonder if joba has a dartboard with a picture of phil hughes on it…

    *(^&^*( MR. FREAKIN PERFECT socal boy, all in-shape @#$%^ with the normal parents and all that west-coast cool goin on…..sure MR GIRARDI, i can pitch out of the bullpen or start whatever you want @%@%^^ WIMP….

    i HATE that @%^# guy!

  263. Wave Your Hat January 14th, 2011 at 11:59 am

    I’m torn on this one.

    No question it makes the Yanks better in 2011, so that’s good.

    On the other hand my gut is telling me there was a bit of panic in this deal. The size of the deal, the loss of the draft pick, the opt-outs, Soriano’s health/injury history, Soriano’s fly-ball tendency, the fact that the Yanks could have signed Downs and Jenks for the same price or gotten De La Rosa instead, all tell me this deal could bite the Yanks in the posterior at some point.

  264. Yankee Trader January 14th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    The A’s have agreed to sign Grant Balfour to a two-year, $8.1MM deal, according to ESPN.com’s Buster Olney (on Twitter).

    The question is-Would the Yankees be better with Joba as a starter rather than the remaining FA starters, and then either sign Rauch or bring up one of their minor leaguers to fill out the bullpen?

    I still believe Pettitte will come back on a prorated deal by June, when his kids are on their summer vacation.

  265. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    blake, lets just hope they didnt send rothschild out to nebraska last week to convince joba that he’s the perfect eigth-inning guy…lol!

  266. ac1 January 14th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    How would you know? Is Soriano gets hurt or opts out, the Yankees go get something else. They will always do that they think they need to do to win, even if they have to go get some other players mid-season.

  267. ac1 January 14th, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    I still believe Pettitte will come back on a prorated deal by June, when his kids are on their summer vacation.

    __

    Also still believe they should add Garcia to eat innings. Even if Mitre pans out, i dont see him giving us 175-200 innings. And Nova probably isnt EXPECTED to give that much either, just to be servicable.

  268. blake January 14th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Wave,

    Lee was still in play when all those other guys were available though. Lee really screwed them over as it turns out by leading them along and using them to drive his market…..that’s how the game is played though, alls fair in love and free agency.

  269. Chip January 14th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    Wave Your Hat January 14th, 2011 at 11:59 am
    I’m torn on this one.

    No question it makes the Yanks better in 2011, so that’s good.

    On the other hand my gut is telling me there was a bit of panic in this deal. The size of the deal, the loss of the draft pick, the opt-outs, Soriano’s health/injury history, Soriano’s fly-ball tendency, the fact that the Yanks could have signed Downs and Jenks for the same price or gotten De La Rosa instead, all tell me this deal could bite the Yanks in the posterior at some point.

    —————–

    Downs is 4 years older than Soriano
    Jenks isn’t as good as Soriano
    De La Rosa could well be the next Oliver Perez

    Do I think this was a move Cashman intended on making all along? No.

    Do I think it was a panic move that doesn’t make sense? No.

    Do I worry about a draft pick? No. Where the Yankees pick in each round they weren’t going to get someone who would impact their club within the next few years anyway. It’s a small sacrifice to lengthen the bullpen and shorten the games.

  270. LGY January 14th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    One last thing about the draft pick. Cashman botched up the Gerit Cole selection and we lost that pick (only to get it back the following season). Did losing out on that pick send the future of the minor league system back into some tailspin? No

    *******

    Strawman much?

    Anyway, I can actually work with this. If the Yankees don’t botch the pick, essentially forfeiting it like they did now with Soriano, they could have drafted Casey Kelly who was chosen just a couple picks after Cole.

    If the Yankees had selected Kelly, the Red Sox do not have the centerpiece necessary to acquire AGon. Boom!

  271. heyman_sux January 14th, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    Silly comment by Buster on Twitter
    ____________

    I’m entirely over Olney. He speculates for the sake of speculating, and often throws proposals out there even if they aren’t any good.

    It might be time for me to consider my user name – Heyman HAS had a pretty good offseason, definitely in comparison to Olney

  272. blake January 14th, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    If Pettite retires, sign Rauch, move Joba to the rotation, evaluate the trade market as the season progresses…..and sign Damon for Erica.

  273. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    heres how you get andy to come to camp…send him an invitation to old-timer’s day…!

  274. Shame Spencer January 14th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    Not to start this up again.. but I really, really hate the idea of any of our players only playing for partial seasons. I hope Andy can just make one choice and stick with it, for better or worse.

  275. G. Love January 14th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    This isn’t a panic move and I don’t understand how it can be called one.

    A panic move is trading Montero for Vincente Padilla.

    This is a smart move that made the Yankees pen the best in baseball. How that is considered panicking is beyond me.

  276. ac1 January 14th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    If the Yankees had selected Kelly, the Red Sox do not have the centerpiece necessary to acquire AGon. Boom!

    __

    HA. Don’t worry, im sure San Diego would have just accepted some other minor league bum instead. Or just given him to the Sox if they asked nicely.

  277. 108 stitches January 14th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Cashman is in a position to wait another week to see a Pettitte decision and what takes place in arbitration moves around the leagues.
    Pettitte or no Pettitte, another starter is needed. It would be an absolute shock if Chamberlain gets one more last shot at the rotation. If he showed up in 32 days or sooner in shape and a willingness to make mechanical adjustments, consider him a “maybe”. Otherwise he’s in the back end of the bullpen until a deal can be worked with a team thinking they can screw his head on straight.

  278. Wave Your Hat January 14th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Downs + Benoit is the same price as Soriano as well.

    Balfour $8M vs Soriano $35M?

    Can Soriano stay healthy? Track record is shaky on that.

    I just don’t know.

  279. Shame Spencer January 14th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    Oh and for all those that are more educated than I am in the game of baseball:

    Does moving Joba to the rotation again in any way (aside from possibly mentally) effect his ability to move back into the pen?

    I think this was my issue with moving him to the pen in the first place. That he’d always be able to be a reliever, but not always be able to retain the ability to be a starter.

  280. G. Love January 14th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    LGY,

    Once again, you miss my point. My point is we didn’t have a 1st round pick that year and the minor league system is still in great shape and didn’t fall apart.

    It wasn’t about who we picked or didn’t pick, it was the fact that with no pick (and no pick when we signed CC, Tex, AJ, etc.) the system still is reportedly thriving while the major league club keeps winning and signing top players.

  281. tyanksfan36 January 14th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    One of my parents where I work was just laughing so hard when he came to drop his son off this morning, he said only the Yankees would pay 25 million for the 8th and 9th inning. I told him Alex Rodriguez made just about what the entire Pirates team made last year, if anyone were to overpay why not the Yankees?

  282. blake January 14th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    Buster has had a bad winter.

    hypothetical:

    Jim Hendry calls up Cashman and says we’ll send you Zambrano for Joba and we’ll eat 1/3 of his salary…..what does he say and why?

  283. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    i just dont see what the problem is with having andy pitch 2/3 or a season? its better than no season in my book, especially if nova/mitre are in the rotation.

    personally i think andy only has about 4 months of work in his arm at this point and ill be happy to get it.

  284. blake January 14th, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    “Does moving Joba to the rotation again in any way (aside from possibly mentally) effect his ability to move back into the pen? ”

    It shouldn’t and even if it did then its worth the risk if he’s going to be a middle reliever IMO.

  285. YsGuy January 14th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    as for the hypothetical, id want them to pay more of z’s contract.

    as for the practical…i dont see the commish allowing a $19M player purchase, even with joba going the other way.

  286. J. Alfred Prufrock January 14th, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    blake January 14th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
    Buster has had a bad winter.

    hypothetical:

    Jim Hendry calls up Cashman and says we’ll send you Zambrano for Joba and we’ll eat 1/3 of his salary…..what does he say and why?

    ///

    He says “absolutely not.Zambrano can’t seem to not walk lefthanded hitters.”


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