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Robinson Cano’s world, plus notes and links

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Jan 14, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post


Jack Curry went down to the Dominican Republic last month to spend time with Robinson Cano, bringing the YES Network into Cano’s world of offseason training. There’s a preview clip on the network’s website, and it’s well worth watching. Eduardo Nunez and Francisco Cervelli have been working with Cano, who basically serves as their hitting coach. It’s a great glimpse into the winter work of one of the Yankees top hitters.

• MLBTradeRumors has an long list of reactions to the Rafael Soriano signing. You’ll find a mix of pros and cons in there. I guess I’d label myself as being somewhere in the middle.

• Doesn’t necessarily mean Andy Pettitte is thinking about coming back, but Jon Heyman has heard that Pettitte has been working out. Heyman has also heard that the Yankees would be willing to trade Joba Chamberlain, but only for a “viable starter.”

The Padres are reportedly close to a deal with Chad Qualls. That signing could impact George Kontos, the Padres Rule 5 pick out of the Yankees organization.

• Former Yankees reliever Jose Veras is reportedly choosing between minor league offers from the Giants, Rockies, Twins, Marlins, Rays and Pirates.

• CC Sabathia’s cousin, infielder Joe Thurston, has signed with the Marlins. He would have made no sense for the Yankees, but I’ve seen quite a bit of Thurston and always thought he was a nice player. Sabathia and Thurston are still doing considerable charity work where they grew up.

• Jordan Bastian predicts that newly married former Yankees fan favorite Shelley Duncan will make the Indians roster out of spring training.

River Ave. Blues looked at the impact of third-base coach Rob Thomson, ultimately coming to the conclusion that, “the Yankees are doing just fine here.”

The Yankeeist has posted an interview with former Yankees catcher and first baseman John Ellis, who played in New York in the early 70s and went on to play for Cleveland and Texas.

Associated Press photo of Cano

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356 Responses to “Robinson Cano’s world, plus notes and links”

  1. Betsy January 14th, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    They are willing to trade Joba now for a starter, but not last year for Haren?

  2. Against All Odds January 14th, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    Betsy January 14th, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    They are willing to trade Joba now for a starter, but not last year for Haren?

    ——————

    Doesn’t make sense right. But I’m sure they believed Lee would have been a Yankee plus Andy is always giving it one more yr. To counter that you can say hey trade for Haren away and still pursue Lee. If Andy wants to comeback then deal Haren to another clun.

  3. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    The reason I think Pettitte is coming back is because he hasn’t said that he isn’t. I think if he were truly committed to retirement, he would thoroughly know it by now and would have announced it.

    JMO

  4. Betsy January 14th, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    Against all Odds, that’s an awful job by Cashman assuming that Lee was his. He could have traded Haren or kept him and dealt another pitcher.

  5. austinmac January 14th, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    DocTodd,

    If you’re still out there, I did go to the Collisseum. Amazing place. All of Italy is amazing.

  6. Jerkface January 14th, 2011 at 10:27 pm

    There were other things at stake in the Haren trade:

    A. The owner of the Diamondbacks or the President, who is a moron, made the deal and wanted a ‘big name’ pitcher – hence Joe Saunders.

    B. The Yankees and other teams were concerned that Haren’s HR rate and Hit rate were not flukes.

    C. The package asked of the Yankees was bigger than the final deal, again, so whatever.

    They should have just traded for Haren, but it wasn’t like the Yankees were like ‘omg we really want haren, ohno they asked for Joba lets bail!’ There were compounding factors. And we will never know 100% the truth.

  7. Against All Odds January 14th, 2011 at 10:27 pm

    # Betsy January 14th, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    Against all Odds, that’s an awful job by Cashman assuming that Lee was his. He could have traded Haren or kept him and dealt another pitcher.

    ———————————————

    Yea it’s bad on their part because you always want to give yourself options. The Yankees went into the off season where it was Lee or bust. Like the fans they had Cliff penciled into the rotation. I’m sure it was a shock to their system when it was obvious he wasn’t going to join the team.

  8. Jerkface January 14th, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    One more thing to consider on Soriano, currently he costs an extra 5 mil per season due to luxury tax.

  9. Betsy January 14th, 2011 at 10:31 pm

    Jerkface, if Joba is just a reliever to the Yankees, he should have been traded – and Nova shouldn’t ever be a hold up to a pitcher like that.

  10. Betsy January 14th, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    Against, yes it was – but then I guess I’ve learned not to believe rumors anymore. Sure – all the media talked about was how eager Lee was to play in NY. Not one of them mentioned how much he loved Philly. What a giant waste of time that whole pursuit was.

  11. Bronx Jeers January 14th, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    Cano’s hysterical. In that video he’s wearing a Yankee hat of course but he never took off the large sticker that covers the top of the cap’s bill.

    I think he’s trying for that “ghetto fabulous” look. :lol:

  12. blake January 14th, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    Pat M said be heard the Dbacks wanted Robertson or Brackman….not Joba.

  13. Against All Odds January 14th, 2011 at 10:35 pm

    # Betsy January 14th, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    Against, yes it was – but then I guess I’ve learned not to believe rumors anymore. Sure – all the media talked about was how eager Lee was to play in NY. Not one of them mentioned how much he loved Philly. What a giant waste of time that whole pursuit was.

    ———————————————–

    None of the reporters reported how much he loved Philly because no one knew. We all assumed he had bad blood for the organization but no one realized he was so attached to the team. The money didn’t hurt either besides the fact that ppl keep saying “he left soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much money on the table”

  14. Jerkface January 14th, 2011 at 10:36 pm

    Jerkface, if Joba is just a reliever to the Yankees, he should have been traded – and Nova shouldn’t ever be a hold up to a pitcher like that.

    But if your scouts and the team thinks that Haren won’t be able to limit the hits he was giving up (10.3 per 9 innings) and limit his HRs (1.5 hr/9 , Hughes was 1.3 and you probably already thought he gave up a lot!) AND he has a big contract, and you’d be moving him to a HR friendly park with better hitters all around… then its not as simple as trading Nova for him.

    You could trade Nova for anything, but if Haren ended up an albatross who couldn’t pitch in Yankee Stadium because of his HR rate then its not a trade to make.

    Imagine if we had 2010 Javy Vazquez…but under contract for 2 more years.

  15. Betsy January 14th, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    Blake, then that trade should have been done immediately. Robertson is a nice reliever, nothing more.

  16. Betsy January 14th, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    Also, I would definitely consider trading Brackman – I would not trade Banuelos or Betances

  17. Betsy January 14th, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    Jerkface, ok that’s true, but as it turns out they were wrong……..just like they have been wrong about many of their pitching evaluations.

  18. Tar January 14th, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    Chad

    Thanks! Great job.

  19. tyanksfan36 January 14th, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue says:

    January 14, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    The reason I think Pettitte is coming back is because he hasn’t said that he isn’t. I think if he were truly committed to retirement, he would thoroughly know it by now and would have announced it.

    JMO

    —–

    I’m with you. I’m optimistic that he will come back. He has to see how bad(on paper) the rotation is without him, I know couldn’t leave my job without knowing that my kids were well taken care of in my absence(not my kids literally but the ones I care for) I think and hope Andy is the same way. He says he is a family man and I’d assume the Yankees are family.

  20. Carlo January 14th, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    Jerkface – r u a season ticket holder? I sure hope so, because I am and my tickets went up 25% this year……u think fans who go to games appreciate the payroll going down 20% pre soriano despite paying more?

    If soriano has a good year, he gets $11mm for it and leaves. No harm done.

  21. randy l. January 14th, 2011 at 10:56 pm

    “Imagine if we had 2010 Javy Vazquez…but under contract for 2 more years.”

    that’s not hard to imagine snce we have burnett under contract for three more.

    this article by john tomase of teh boston herald wrote this :
    “Virtually every pitcher to struggle like Beckett did last season not only was never the same, but almost to a man failed to produce a single, solitary above-average season thereafter.”

    http://www.bostonherald.com/sp.....id=1309210

    66 pitchers in baseball history had a record as bad as beckett had and only 3 ever had even one good season afterward.

    burnett’s era wasn’t quite as high , but he may be getting into that territory of no return. if he does it’s going to be a real headache for the yankees.

  22. Bronx Jeers January 14th, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    I think Pettitte might be back IF the Yanks have a need mid-season. Obviously, at least at this point in time, it seems that that need will exist.

    I do think there is an issue with the upcoming Clemens trial. As of right now that’s scheduled for July. I don’t think he wants to be an MLB pitcher AND have to deal with that at the same time. Much better to be a private citizen for that circus. He probably doesn’t want to deal with the media during what could be a very trying time for him and more importantly, I also think he doesn’t think it’s fair for his team to have to deal with it.

    Andy’s a very team oriented and accountable guy. One could even say the reason he got mixed up with HGH and all this trouble is because he felt obligated to do whatever he could to overcome injury and help his team/earn his pay.

  23. Carlo January 14th, 2011 at 10:59 pm

    Randy – burnett and beckett were two different situations last year. I wouldn’t lump the tomase article on burnett as well. Don’t think its apples to apples

  24. Bronx Jeers January 14th, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    I also saw that article about the 66 pitchers that had a crap season like Beckett and AJ with the vast majority never showing improvement.

    It is possible (and all we really have to hope on) that AJ bucks the trend because his bad season was not caused by injury.

    Unless you count brain farts as an injury.

  25. randy l. January 14th, 2011 at 11:08 pm

    ” I wouldn’t lump the tomase article on burnett as well. Don’t think its apples to apples”

    they seem similar enough to me that if i were cashman i’d have a plan B ready if rothschild can’t get burnett back to who he used to be.

  26. Jerkface January 14th, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    Jerkface – r u a season ticket holder? I sure hope so, because I am and my tickets went up 25% this year……u think fans who go to games appreciate the payroll going down 20% pre soriano despite paying more?

    No. And I don’t think arguing payroll vs ticket prices ever works. The price of the tickets are the price people are willing to pay. If everyone gave up their tickets due to high prices, the prices would come down, but people will pay for your tickets if you chose not to renew.

    I was a season ticket holder for the Tampa bay Bucs (live in orlando) which are considerably more expensive than baseball tickets and decided not to re-new after having an all-time worst season experience last year. So you’re more than welcome to quit, but I think it’d be foolish as the Yankees will continue to make the playoffs regardless of them spending 180 or 200 million on payroll.

  27. Carlo January 14th, 2011 at 11:15 pm

    Plan B? Of course he has Plan B. Its patience.

  28. Bronx Jeers January 14th, 2011 at 11:16 pm

    I thought AJ rebounding was already a component of plan B.

    Maybe we should consider the plan to replace AJ’s best production as “Plan B-squared”

    As in it will be exponentially more difficult to pull off.

    Not for nothing but as good as this Soriano deal makes their bullpen it does absolutely nothing to help the team if they can’t give him a lead to protect.

  29. Jerkface January 14th, 2011 at 11:16 pm

    that’s not hard to imagine snce we have burnett under contract for three more.

    Yea so I can see the FO’s hesitation in adding a guy who may end up just as bad.

  30. RMS January 14th, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    “they seem similar enough to me that if i were cashman i’d have a plan B ready if rothschild can’t get burnett back to who he used to be.”

    When you say get Burnett back to what he used to be, do you mean a .500 pitcher?
    This rotation as it now stands does not inspire confidence.

  31. Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 11:22 pm

    Trading Joba, when his value is at an all-time low, should be a fireable offense.

  32. Bronx Jeers January 14th, 2011 at 11:28 pm

    Yea so I can see the FO’s hesitation in adding a guy who may end up just as bad.

    ————————————————————————————————-

    Such as Zambrano.

  33. randy l. January 14th, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    “Trading Joba, when his value is at an all-time low, should be a fireable offense.”

    even if the yankees absolutely know that there’s something about joba that he’s not going to reach his potential, they are the only ones who would have that inside info and should keep it to themselves while they put him in situations where they rehabilitate his image and his trade value.

    i however think that given a fair chance with a whole spring training to prepare he’d at the very least be a decent #4.

  34. Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 11:33 pm

    “i however think that given a fair chance with a whole spring training to prepare he’d at the very least be a decent #4.”

    I’ll go even further (sort of). I think he could be a better starter than AJ from this point forward.

  35. Against All Odds January 14th, 2011 at 11:36 pm

    # Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 11:22 pm

    Trading Joba, when his value is at an all-time low, should be a fireable offense.

    ——————————————–

    I’m guessing you saw the report on MLBTR

  36. randy l. January 14th, 2011 at 11:41 pm

    “I’ll go even further (sort of). I think he could be a better starter than AJ from this point forward.”

    actually burnett’s two pitch stuff translates better to the bullpen now and joba’s ability to throw 4 pitches makes him potentially more suited to the starting rotation.

    if burnett get’s back to a 4.25-4.50 era it’s a non issue going to the pen, but if rolls out another 5.25-5.50 era the bullpen is not out of the question.

  37. Bronx Jeers January 14th, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    if burnett get’s back to a 4.25-4.50 era it’s a non issue going to the pen, but if rolls out another 5.25-5.50 era the bullpen is not out of the question.

    ————————————————————————————————-

    Burnett to the pen? Add in Feliciano’s $$ and and they’d be approaching a $50MM bullpen. And as depressing as that may seem it would work wonders for that whole Twins comparison thing. :wink:

    (For the record, I see your point on that. I like the way the Twins play baseball)

  38. GreenBeret7 January 15th, 2011 at 12:03 am

    What do Mike Mussina, David Wells, Roger Clemens and Kenny Rogers have in common? The all rebounded fron seasons like Burnett’s tp have at least one 18-20 win season.

  39. 4 NYY January 15th, 2011 at 12:06 am

    # GreenBeret7 January 15th, 2011 at 12:03 am

    What do Mike Mussina, David Wells, Roger Clemens and Kenny Rogers have in common? The all rebounded fron seasons like Burnett’s tp have at least one 18-20 win season.
    ——————————————————————————————————-

    None had his “rock” on their shoulders !

  40. GreenBeret7 January 15th, 2011 at 12:09 am

    Another jackass that feels like one off year washes a player up?

  41. KPB January 15th, 2011 at 12:09 am

    The all rebounded fron seasons like Burnett’s tp have at least one 18-20 win season.
    ———————–

    Is this your way of saying AJ had a crappy season?

  42. Disco January 15th, 2011 at 12:09 am

    God, I hope it’s not going back to the pre-2006 days when ownership had control over Cashman. Our ownership typically makes terrible decisions while Cashman and Oppenheimer are very good at their jobs.

    This is such a bad deal. Yes, it has potential to be good if Soriano dominates, opts out, and nets us two picks. But other than that- $35mil for a guy who is going to pitch in like 5% of our total innings this season?

    Cashman is doing what he should be doing, nothing since the market sucks this season, but Levine and ownership just can’t actually do nothing for once, even if it’s smart, so they got itchy and signed Soriano.

    Stupid.

  43. Bronx Jeers January 15th, 2011 at 12:10 am

    What do Mike Mussina, David Wells, Roger Clemens and Kenny Rogers have in common? The all rebounded fron seasons like Burnett’s tp have at least one 18-20 win season.

    ———————————————————————————————

    And they’re all former Yankees. That can’t be bad.

  44. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2011 at 12:12 am

    “I’m guessing you saw the report on MLBTR”

    Sadly.

  45. SAS January 15th, 2011 at 12:14 am

    Hey KPB,

    Haven’t seen you around the ‘campus’ of late. How are you?

  46. GreenBeret7 January 15th, 2011 at 12:17 am

    KPB January 15th, 2011 at 12:09 am
    The all rebounded fron seasons like Burnett’s tp have at least one 18-20 win season.
    ———————–

    Is this your way of saying AJ had a crappy season?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    That’s all it was KPN. Only 6 of the 25 opening day roster players had normal or better seasons. He’ll put up his average numbers.

  47. GreenBeret7 January 15th, 2011 at 12:17 am

    Damned dog. That’s KPB

  48. KPB January 15th, 2011 at 12:19 am

    Hi SAS

    Been out of town the past couple of weeks. My nephew couldn’t come this year, so I went to him. Glad to see you posting. I couldn’t remember what part of AZ you were in and was worried.

  49. Against All Odds January 15th, 2011 at 12:21 am

    # Rich in NJ January 15th, 2011 at 12:12 am

    “I’m guessing you saw the report on MLBTR”

    Sadly.

    ——————————

    I know the feeling. Hey I would rather see him start games for the Yankees but if he was traded I wouldn’t be against it because it might do him some good. Who ever gets their hands on Joba could help him turn his career around.

  50. KPB January 15th, 2011 at 12:23 am

    That’s all it was KPN. Only 6 of the 25 opening day roster players had normal or better seasons. He’ll put up his average numbers.
    ————–
    That’s my fault, I put too much of your post up and ruined a funny line.

    It should have looked like this :

    like Burnett’s tp
    ————-
    Is this your way of saying AJ had a crappy season?

  51. SAS January 15th, 2011 at 12:24 am

    KPB,

    I am in the Phoenix area. All is well.

  52. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2011 at 12:24 am

    “I know the feeling. Hey I would rather see him start games for the Yankees but if he was traded I wouldn’t be against it because it might do him some good. Who ever gets their hands on Joba could help him turn his career around.”

    You’re far more selfless than I am.

    I would join randy’s anti-Cashman crusada.

  53. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2011 at 12:25 am

    “e” not “a”

  54. SAS January 15th, 2011 at 12:25 am

    GB,

    Last night you asked me about what I thought about the pitching situation. I answered you, but I think you fell asleep. It was very late on the East Coast.

  55. SAS January 15th, 2011 at 12:27 am

    Rich,

    Maybe if he were traded to the right team, otherwise nothing will change. Maybe Rothschild will help him with his attitude which is what I think needs adjusting.

  56. 4 NYY January 15th, 2011 at 12:28 am

    # GreenBeret7 January 15th, 2011 at 12:09 am

    Another jackass that feels like one off year washes a player up?
    ———————————————————————————————–

    You’re name calling aside :

    A J simply walks too many batters ! Great stuff wasted !

  57. 4 NYY January 15th, 2011 at 12:28 am

    your

  58. KPB January 15th, 2011 at 12:29 am

    SAS

    Good deal. How you feel about our new “toy” we got today? I like the move and feel a little better about the team than I did yesterday. Will feel a lot better when Andy comes back.

  59. SAS January 15th, 2011 at 12:32 am

    KPB,

    I couldn’t agree with you more.

  60. Against All Odds January 15th, 2011 at 12:43 am

    # Rich in NJ January 15th, 2011 at 12:24 am

    “I know the feeling. Hey I would rather see him start games for the Yankees but if he was traded I wouldn’t be against it because it might do him some good. Who ever gets their hands on Joba could help him turn his career around.”

    You’re far more selfless than I am.

    I would join randy’s anti-Cashman crusada.
    ———————————————————

    The anti Cashman crusada is gaining new members everyday lol. Cashman is taking it on the chin right now.

    Him being traded would be a crash landing end to his Yankee career but hey it could motivate him. The new pitching could tell Joba over and over they didn’t want you, they lost faith in your abilities, they felt guys like Mitre and Nova were better options, they didn’t trust you to set-up Mo, etc. Well now prove them wrong prove all of them wrong fans, media, and the yankees.

    Joba needs to get back to basics and rediscover his fire. I’m not saying that would cure all his issues but it’s one piece of the Joba puzzle that needs to be put together. Hey I’m going to call it a night enjoy the rest of the night Rich.

  61. Bronx Jeers January 15th, 2011 at 1:03 am

    You’re far more selfless than I am.

    I would join randy’s anti-Cashman crusada.

    ————————————————–

    Buy the ticket. Take the ride.

  62. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2011 at 1:35 am

    SAS

    If Joba does well on another team, maybe it would be an indication that the Yankees aren’t good at developing pitchers and that heads need to roll.

  63. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2011 at 1:38 am

    “The anti Cashman crusad[e] is gaining new members everyday lol. Cashman is taking it on the chin right now.:

    It seems that the owners hung him out to dry.

    “Him being traded would be a crash landing end to his Yankee career but hey it could motivate him. The new pitching could tell Joba over and over they didn’t want you, they lost faith in your abilities, they felt guys like Mitre and Nova were better options, they didn’t trust you to set-up Mo, etc. Well now prove them wrong prove all of them wrong fans, media, and the yankees.”

    I don’t believe that he isn’t motivated.

    Just going by performance, I think it’s apparent that Joba is a better option than AJ, so why go past that to any other pitcher?

    At least give Joba a year with Rothschild before making any decisions.

  64. BoJo January 15th, 2011 at 1:50 am

    I guess we need to start petitioning Randy Levine to put Joba back in rotation…anyone have his e-mail address?

  65. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2011 at 1:51 am

    Not that I like him, but I don’t believe that Levine does anything that the owners don’t want him to do.

  66. BoJo January 15th, 2011 at 1:53 am

    I don’t care if the Yankees feel Joba’s shoulder can’t hold up ither…pitch him in rotation to increase his value….see how he holds up. It will increase his trade value, and maybe we’ll see something that says his shoulder will holdup. His value in middle relief is zip, and he has too much upside to just give away. I don’t want to see another case of Doug Drabek or Jose Rijo here.

  67. Sweet Swinging Cano January 15th, 2011 at 1:54 am

    I love that pic of Cano

  68. BoJo January 15th, 2011 at 1:54 am

    Rich–

    I think Levine has hios own opionions and butts his nose in. If fans are screaming for Joba to start (online petition anyone?), then Levine will feel emboldened to bring it up. His concern is about ticket sales.

  69. Sweet Swinging Cano January 15th, 2011 at 1:55 am

    Why the sudden urge for Joba to start? If he fails all we will hear is this kid was always a reliever yada yada yada. People flip flop every day.

  70. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2011 at 2:06 am

    BoJo

    Whatever works.
    __

    “Why the sudden urge for Joba to start? If he fails all we will hear is this kid was always a reliever yada yada yada. People flip flop every day.”

    This is false. Many of us never wanted him to be anything but a starter.

    He was dominant as a starter before the shoulder injury in 2008, and even coming off that injury and with an innings cap, he was a better starer in 2009 than Vazquez and Burnett were in 2010.

    So I don’t know what people you are talking about.

  71. BoJo January 15th, 2011 at 2:11 am

    Sweet Swinging Cano January 15th, 2011 at 1:55 am

    Why the sudden urge for Joba to start? If he fails all we will hear is this kid was always a reliever yada yada yada. People flip flop every day.

    +++++++++++++++++
    It seems you have not been keeping up with the threads…REPOST

    Could Joba do that (pitch 6 innings and give up 3 runs or less)?

    Through Joba’s first 30 starts (from June 13th 2008 to July 30th 2008 and from April 12 2009 to Aug 6 2009), Joba was 11-3 and team was 22-8 with 165 IPs, 157 hits, 75 BBs, 163 Ks,and a 3.27 ERA with a WHIP of 1.31. In 16 of those starts, he went 6 innings and gave up 3 runs or less.

    In contrast, Hughes was much worse in his 1st 30, but let’s look at him after getting his feet on the ground. Through his first 30 starts in 2010 alone (to discount the troubles he had previously), Hughes was 17-8 with a 4.21 ERA and worse stats across the board. Team was 19-11.

    Joba has shown himself to have a much higher ceiling than Hughes..no contest.

    That is why I personally believe he should start even though I didn’t want him to be the 8th inning bridge.

  72. Jerkface January 15th, 2011 at 2:19 am

    Why the sudden urge for Joba to start? If he fails all we will hear is this kid was always a reliever yada yada yada. People flip flop every day.

    Best use of resource given current state of rotation, if he fails well then shove him back in the bullpen at that point who cares?

  73. Sweet Swinging Cano January 15th, 2011 at 2:21 am

    Joba was actually great in 2008. The injury really affected him. I am not denying his talent at all.

  74. West Coast Yankee Fan January 15th, 2011 at 2:24 am

    Interesting that some try to justify starting Joba by posting all sorts of stats. Well stats can often blind someone from seeing the game before them. Bob Cousy shot 37% from the field in his career. I guess he was a really bad basketball player.

  75. Sweet Swinging Cano January 15th, 2011 at 2:25 am

    It would sadden me to see him traded. I just want to see him pitch with conviction again. Making him a starter again would make the Yankees look like a joke honestly.

  76. Sweet Swinging Cano January 15th, 2011 at 2:29 am

    I know Joba struggled towards the end of 2009. Whether it was because of the innings limit or his confidence, who knows. How big of a mistake was it to not let him begin 2010 in the rotation?

  77. West Coast Yankee Fan January 15th, 2011 at 2:34 am

    It wasn’t a mistake at all. Hughes beat him and was 18-8.

  78. Jerkface January 15th, 2011 at 2:37 am

    Well stats can often blind someone from seeing the game before them. Bob Cousy shot 37% from the field in his career. I guess he was a really bad basketball player.

    Strawman. You’re just full of logical fallacies, tons of em. All that stat says is he wasn’t a good shooter, and unless he did something else very well or better than his peers he probably would not have stuck around. (Hint: He did do something better than his peers and it wasn’t shooting sssh)

  79. Jerkface January 15th, 2011 at 2:38 am

    How big of a mistake was it to not let him begin 2010 in the rotation?

    He shouldn’t have begun the season in the rotation. He should have started in AAA.

  80. Sweet Swinging Cano January 15th, 2011 at 2:39 am

    Fair enough.

  81. Sweet Swinging Cano January 15th, 2011 at 2:40 am

    I just find it pointless they had the innings cap. Then he goes back to the pen. I know he wasn’t effective and Hughes deserved the spot hands down. I just wonder what the Yankees really were doing??

  82. West Coast Yankee Fan January 15th, 2011 at 2:43 am

    No, the logic and point is rock solid, the inability to comprehend is your problem. Stats often mislead when evaluating a ballplayer and Joba is a perfect example. Case-in-point Bojo above trying to make the case that, and I quote, “Joba has shown himself to have a much higher ceiling than Hughes, no contest”. Please.

  83. Jerkface January 15th, 2011 at 2:44 am

    I just wonder what the Yankees really were doing??

    It makes sense if it was, put him in the bullpen to get him back to speed, like they did with Hughes. He will be cleared for 190-200 innings now from his 09 season, he is effectively ‘uncapped’. I don’t think Hughes or Joba are going to throw 200+ innings this year if they started.

    He can throw 200.

  84. Jerkface January 15th, 2011 at 2:48 am

    No, the logic and point is rock solid, the inability to comprehend is your problem. Stats often mislead when evaluating a ballplayer and Joba is a perfect example. Case-in-point Bojo above trying to make the case that, and I quote, “Joba has shown himself to have a much higher ceiling than Hughes, no contest”. Please.

    I guess they are misleading if you use them incorrectly like you do. Joba has had just as many good games starting as Hughes has. His average fastball velocity is faster than Hughes. He has secondary pitches which get a higher rate of swings and misses than Hughes pitches do. When not on an arbitrary pitch limit, Joba was perfectly capable of going 6 innings and beyond in a game. Hughes has pitched into the 8th inning three times in his career, and only twice finished it.

    Joba flat dominated the Red Sox in fenway against Beckett. He has proven to be a high quality starter in the majors.

    As a middle reliever who doesn’t even pitch the 8th he is beyond worthless.

  85. Jerkface January 15th, 2011 at 2:49 am

    There is nothing misleading about what Joba has actually done on the field. Unless you are willfully ignorant and choose to ignore it.

  86. Sweet Swinging Cano January 15th, 2011 at 2:50 am

    Then why did he start nibbling and having starts where he had 100 pitches through 4 or 5?

  87. Sweet Swinging Cano January 15th, 2011 at 2:51 am

    I think he showed flashes of brilliance in 2008. And in 2009 at the beginning of the asb he had that stretch where he dominated. That injury in 2008 changed him.

  88. Jerkface January 15th, 2011 at 3:04 am

    Then why did he start nibbling and having starts where he had 100 pitches through 4 or 5?

    That happened 4 times in 09 before they started cutting his innings short. He was perfectly capable of going deep. Gosh I don’t want to have to post this again but look at his game logs, the amount of innings he was throwing and the pitch counts.

    In 16 of his 09 starts he pitched into the 6th or better. In 6 of those starts he was under 100 pitches when he left. In 4 of them he was at 100 pitches or at most 103.

    Now go look at CC Sabathia, he is an established veteran pitcher with years of experience and if you take him out of the game at 100 pitches every time he isn’t going to throw 6-7 every night.

    As a developing 23 year old pitcher, Joba was just fine.

  89. Jerkface January 15th, 2011 at 3:06 am

    That injury in 2008 changed him.


    The injury might have derailed him, or even knocked him down from a surefire ace (which 08 joba the starter looked like for sure) into a #2-#3 type, but thats fine. Even if Joba is a #4 type pitcher it is still MORE Valuable than Joba in relief.

  90. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 7:01 am

    All you people who are talking about Joba returning to the rotation are making a lot of sense.

    Let’s just hope it gets thru to the Yankees brass.

    And even more importantly that Joba sees the worm turning and forces the issue.

    Even if AP were to return I would let Joba compete for the #5 slot again along with Nova and others.

    As some have pointed out the Yankees have very little to lose and much more to gain by doing so.

    Joba. Are you feelin’ this ? Get to work.

  91. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 7:05 am

    I watched that Cano video.

    And he looks like a stone cold killer at the plate.

    It’s great to see such dedication, and also to see Cano taking more of a leadership role by working out with Nunez and Cervelli.

    Maybe some of it will rub off.

    P.S. Lose the peachfuzz Robbie.

    :)

  92. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 7:12 am

    And for the record I never much liked Eiland.

    Never considered him more than midling at best.

    Adios Muchacho. Enjoy your further obscurity with the “Maddonistas”.

    ;)

  93. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 7:16 am

    I don’t see how AJ could ever make it as a good reliever.

    He is way too wild. Issues way too many free passes, etc.

    And even if he can crank it up a notch out of the pen.

    He still needs to be able to find the plate.

    It would be quite an adventure seeing him come out of the BP.

    Hopefully, it’s a moot point and he has a great season.

  94. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 7:18 am

    OK.

    I done writing this book. My apologies.

    I’ll probably still be wanderin’ the desert and talkin’ to myself for years to come though.

    Can’t help that.

    :)

  95. BoJo January 15th, 2011 at 7:32 am

    Jerkface January 15th, 2011 at 2:49 am

    There is nothing misleading about what Joba has actually done on the field. Unless you are willfully ignorant and choose to ignore it.
    ++++++++++++
    That’s the whole point Jerkface, and why I don’t even bother to respond to WCYF. He is willfully ignorant and just posts because he wants attention. I have watched him for over a year on the Daily News posting as Redfish and many other names, and hardly anyone ever responds to his stupid pronouncements anymore. The guy hates Joba mainly because the guys who ran him off the board like him.

    He is not worth even acknowledging.

  96. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 7:34 am

    Bojo-

    Good morning.

    How’s life in Philly ?

    :)

  97. BoJo January 15th, 2011 at 7:39 am

    In fact, most of his comments are deleted within 24 hours now by either the blog host or the censor, and the standing rule is that once they discover any new accounts he uses, they immediately delete his posts from that too.

    For the most part, he has been much less of a troll here, which is why I don’t mention this…but when he starts going, he gets into a troll frenzy…and starts either calling others stupid or using multiple new accounts to semingly reinforce his point of view. It is really weird.

    That’s all I will say about this.

  98. BoJo January 15th, 2011 at 7:40 am

    Hi MTU–and good morning!

    Philly is doing well–thanks. How are you doing?

  99. Doreen January 15th, 2011 at 7:41 am

    Good Morning MTU and morning people.

    I slept relatively late this AM. Yay.

  100. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 7:42 am

    Bojo-

    All long as the skies are blue and I have the strength to wander I’ll always be happy.

    In short. I’m good.

    Thanks for asking.

  101. BoJo January 15th, 2011 at 7:42 am

    BTW–I totally agree with you about Eiland. I am thrilled to see him gone.

    As for AJ, we can only hope a good pitching coach will make a difference. He has had good seasons when he was under the tutelage of a talented coach or other pitcher (Halladay). He still has the arm…I have to believe he can return to success.

  102. BoJo January 15th, 2011 at 7:43 am

    BTW–I love your photography. You have a real gifted eye.

  103. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 7:43 am

    Doreen-

    Yes. It seems that way.

    Nothing like a good night’s rest to get you ready to talk some Yankee baseball.

    Has Tiguan fever hit yet ?

  104. BoJo January 15th, 2011 at 7:44 am

    Hi Doreen!

  105. BoJo January 15th, 2011 at 7:45 am

    I’m going for a walk…c u all l8r

  106. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 7:46 am

    Bojo-

    Thanks.

    It’s a pity I look like the Cyclops though.

    Agree on the potential w AJ and Mr. R.

    He gets a challenge right out of the gate.

    Maybe he can help Joba too.

    :)

  107. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 7:48 am

    Mr. Bojo-

    Always take the path less travelled it’s way more interesting.

    ;)

  108. Doreen January 15th, 2011 at 7:49 am

    The thing about Joba 2009 is that he was all over the map. His cumulative stats may look good in hindsight, but I distinctly remember being very frustrated with him. He’d have a promising outing, and then he’d have an outing where he went 3-2 one every hitter, walk a few and then get out of the inning without giving up runs, but frustrating everyone in the process, particularly the catcher, whom he would shake off seemingly constantly.

    I remember having conversations here about this. I remember being told it was the natural development of a young pitcher, to expect ups and downs. And I saw that as logical, but still it was frustrating to watch him in action.

    He had three outstanding starts following the All-Star Break. It was at this point that the Yankees thought they had hit on something (the long rest) and tried to optimize Joba’s turn in the rotation. But they never got the same results or anywhere close. It’s like Joba came back from the break super pumped and ready, put everything he had into those three starts and couldn’t muster it up again. In an effort to help him get back to that the Yankees seemed to try everything.

    If you believe the Yankees had the best interests of Joba and the team at heart, then you see this as trying to get the best out of Joba however they could; if you don’t believe that, then you see it as the Yankees messing with Joba because of an innings limit. And the twain shall never meet.

  109. Doreen January 15th, 2011 at 7:51 am

    Hi BoJo!

  110. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 7:52 am

    Doreen-

    IMO Joba never will get the opportunity to meet Mr. twain except thru his books.

    However, he should get into the best shape of his life and see where that leads him.

    :)

  111. Doreen January 15th, 2011 at 7:55 am

    MTU -

    I agree with that. It is really in Joba’s court to show he wants another shot at starting – IF he wants another shot at starting. I think most assume why wouldn’t he want to start, but we none of us know any of the background on this.

  112. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 7:57 am

    Doreen-

    Not unless that robotic fly I planted on the wall during Yankee mgmt
    meetings starts relayin’ back messages like the Mars lander.

    So far nothing.

    :(

  113. Fran the original January 15th, 2011 at 7:57 am

    Good morning all!

    Quick pass by. On my way out for a manicure.

    I think that Joba is a victim of his own success. When he came up to the majors he was “all world”. Think it went to his head. I really believe that they will use Joba as trade bait for a starting pitcher.

    Catch you all later.

  114. upstate kate January 15th, 2011 at 7:57 am

    good morning all
    this post should have been dedicated to Erin :)
    our little Robbie has grown up, it is wonderful to see him mentoring Cervelli and Nunez…I am looking forward to seeing the next Hot Stove.

  115. upstate kate January 15th, 2011 at 7:58 am

    Fran
    J-E-T-S!!!
    I am a Giant fan, but would love to see the Pats defeated!

  116. Doreen January 15th, 2011 at 8:06 am

    upstate kate -

    Me, too – looking forward to next week’s Hot Stove. :)

    Do we think the J-E-T-S stand a chance? It would be really great if they can pull off a win. Hey, on any given day, yadda yadda, right????

  117. MG January 15th, 2011 at 8:15 am

    Bojo, while I disagree with you on the relative ceilings of Hughes and Chamberlain I am in complete agreement on making Chamberlain a starter again (at whatever level it takes to get him ready) because he’s not filling an important role in the bullpen.

    A year ago the thought was that Chamberlain might not be a front of the rotation guy but could be a stud in the bullpen. Last year showed that wasn’t the case, that he’s the same pitcher (inconsistent) in the bullpen as he is in the rotation. So they might as well make him a starter and leave him there, he’ll either make it back into the rotation or wind up being traded. Keeping him in a short relief role where he has no potential impact just makes no sense, he is too talented for that.

  118. blake January 15th, 2011 at 8:16 am

    Rich,

    From last night.:

    I agree that Joba’s trade value is at an all time low right now…..the problem is that if he stays in the current role he’s in it likely will have very little chance to increase and may actually decrease farther the further removed from starting he is.

    They are at a crossroads with Joba …..its now or never time. Either start him or trade him, doing nothing is a waste. Waste of his talent and.waste of his value.

  119. MG January 15th, 2011 at 8:24 am

    it’s truly a rare time on the LoHud blog where virtually everyone is in as much agreement about a player (other than Cody Ransom) as it is with Chamberlain, does that mean there is no chance it will ever happen? :)

  120. Gary January 15th, 2011 at 8:26 am

    Hi Doreen, I don’t give the Jets any real chance. The game is in Foxboro and Brady and the Pats are firing on all cylinders. Their one chance is to take the page out of the Giants SB victory and put tons of pressure on TB. That may require selling out on defense, so if you do it against them you had better get to the QB.

  121. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 8:28 am

    Blake-

    That’s the word.

    ;)

  122. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 8:31 am

    Blake-

    Joba will be in the rotation.

    And the South shall rise again.

    /Robert E. Lee’ed/

    :)

  123. YsGuy January 15th, 2011 at 8:32 am

    the jets never get pressure on the qb without blitzing. if they blitz brady, he will cut them up. the jets need to run the ball effectivly and have possession time around 40 minutes to have a chance, but sadly that wont happen.
    give the points, the pats shut ryan up!

  124. blake January 15th, 2011 at 8:32 am

    MTU,

    Alright!

  125. YsGuy January 15th, 2011 at 8:33 am

    hey, did the mets go out of buisness or something?

  126. blake January 15th, 2011 at 8:33 am

    MG,

    nice seein you around again.

  127. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 8:34 am

    Blake-

    Let’s get this revolution started.

    :)

  128. joeman January 15th, 2011 at 8:34 am

    I’m saying Joba will be given a shot as a SP again right out of ST…….

  129. Doreen January 15th, 2011 at 8:34 am

    My husband has to go to Las Vegas (on business) and he’s leaving tomorrow. He doesn’t even want me to DVR the game. I might anyway. Just in case. (He’s a Giants fan, but also follows the Jets.)

    It just always seems a shame to me that a team gets into the playoffs and then hits a brick wall. What was it all for?

  130. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 8:34 am

    MG-

    I second that.

  131. upstate kate January 15th, 2011 at 8:40 am

    ya just never know…we all remember the Giants beating the perfect Pats…it could happen! I am enjoying all the trash talk, some of it is pretty clever.

  132. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 8:40 am

    Joba Chamberlain.

    Hear us.

    Your destiny in pinstripes awaits you.

    Train hard. Prove your doubters wrong.

    Make some extra money for your Son’s future.

  133. joeman January 15th, 2011 at 8:41 am

    # Doreen January 15th, 2011 at 8:34 am

    My husband has to go to Las Vegas (on business) and he’s leaving tomorrow. He doesn’t even want me to DVR the game. I might anyway. Just in case. (He’s a Giants fan, but also follows the Jets.)

    It just always seems a shame to me that a team gets into the playoffs and then hits a brick wall. What was it all for?
    —————————————————–
    I hate business trips to Vegas, 8 hrs of meetings all day……the Jets brick wall this year are the Pats

  134. joeman January 15th, 2011 at 8:44 am

    # upstate kate January 15th, 2011 at 8:40 am

    ya just never know…we all remember the Giants beating the perfect Pats…it could happen! I am enjoying all the trash talk, some of it is pretty clever.
    ———————————————————
    the Welker interview was clever

  135. austinmac January 15th, 2011 at 8:50 am

    MTU,

    You joked about Joba making money for his son. It seems to me that is the kind of thing people need to be saying to him. Get in shape, be a starter and have the chance to be a star. Alternatively, you can knock around for a few years and get a real job for about $10/hr.

  136. upstate kate January 15th, 2011 at 8:51 am

    yeah that was my favorite…and he did it so seriously, didn’t even crack a smile

  137. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 15th, 2011 at 8:55 am

    I never realized just how much I despise the Pats until Mr. Bundchen showed up this year with this ridiculous locks and fancy scarves wrapped just so around his neck. What a loser. We can tell who wears the pants in that family.

    Can’t think of a lot more that would make me happier than seeing him sacked and humiliated in his own “studio”.

    BARF!

  138. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 8:55 am

    Austin-

    It probably has. Over and over again.

    Maybe his skull is like Titanium and things don’t get thru.

    Superstar sounds way better than hayseed has been.

    At least to my untrained ear.

    The need is there. The opportunity exists.

    It’s for him to grab it. And to make them see.

  139. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 8:58 am

    Austin-

    This the last train to gun hill for Joba.

    Hope he gets on it.

  140. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 8:59 am

    Trisha-

    Welcome back.

    Thanks fro bringin’ the thunder.

    :)

  141. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 8:59 am

    “for”. typo. sorry. GB disease.

  142. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 15th, 2011 at 9:03 am

    MTU – :D

    People like you make me want to be here!

  143. MTU January 15th, 2011 at 9:06 am

    Trisha-

    And people like you make ME want to be here.

    It’s good to see you back in form M’am.

    You’re a joy.

    :)

  144. J. Alfred Prufrock January 15th, 2011 at 10:35 am

    Rich in NJ January 14th, 2011 at 11:22 pm
    Trading Joba, when his value is at an all-time low, should be a fireable offense.

    //

    lol.kinda cracks me up how aligned this is to my thinking,even in degree.the yanks probably would like to eliminate the controversy & getting rid of Joba stops all the speculation that he should go back into the rotation.i’m sure joba would like to oppty to go somewhere else if he can start.

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