Come on out for an unforgettable night
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 15, 2011 
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Looking for a unique baseball experience during this cold and — until recently — quiet winter?
The New York Chapter of the Baseball Writers Association of America will hold its 88th annual awards dinner on Saturday, January 22 at the Hilton New York, located at 1335 Avenue of the Americas between West 53rd and 54 Streets. Cocktails start at 6 p.m., dinner starts at 7, and some of the biggest names in baseball will be in attendance.
Nearly all of our chapter award winners are expected to be there, and every national award winner is scheduled to attend. Bernie Williams and will perform with members of his band.
Tickets are $225 each and can be purchased through Phil Pepe (philpepman@cs.com or 201-871-5924).
Here is the complete list of the awards that will be presented at the dinner:
Willie, Mickey and the Duke Award: Joe Torre, Lou Piniella, Bobby Cox
Joan Payson Award for community service: George Steinbrenner
William J. Slocum-Jack Lang Award for Long and Meritorious Service: Bill Shannon
Joe DiMaggio Toast of the Town Award: Robinson Cano
Ben Epstein-Dan Castellano Good Guy Award: Phil Hughes
Sid Mercer-Dick Young Player of the Year Award: Josh Hamilton
Babe Ruth Award (Postseason MVP): Tim Lincecum
Casey Stengel You Could Look It Up Award: Harmon Killebrew
Arthur and Milton Richman You Gotta Have Heart Award: R.A. Dickey
American League MVP: Josh Hamilton
National League MVP: Joey Votto
American League Cy Young: Felix Hernandez
National League Cy Young: Roy Halladay
American League Rookie of the Year: Neftali Feliz
National League Rookie of the Year: Buster Posey
American League Manager of the Year: Ron Gardenhire
National League Manager of the Year: Bud Black
I went to this dinner for the first time last year. It’s a great time, highly recommended.
Wow.
That would be worth every penny.
MTU,
Unless a trade is made, I do believe you are right that the Yankees want to see some sign from Joba he is dedicating himself. Truly, if he does not, he will never be a capable starter anyway.
he’ll be a SP coming out of ST this year….that is where his only value is now on this team, otherwise trade him
Austin-
Most people have to work hard for their success.
Only a fortune few are prodigies, or hit the lotto.
I don’t see the downside in trying Joba as a starter again….especially since he’s going to be pitching the 6th or 7th…..been.saying that for awhile. If it doesn’t work out then going back to the pen is a non issue.
If I lived in NYC I might have to go to that dinner.
MTU,
Since I am lacking in any great abilities, please send me winning lotto numbers.
Austin-
I’ll get right on it. Just remember who your friends are after you win.
Blake-
Let’s go.
I’ll pick you up in my covered wagon.
Its an interesting contrast how quickly the Yankees soured on Kennedy, yet they’ve given Joba this much rope. And then have him as a middle reliever, possibly the easiest body to find for a MLB roster.
I read a quote from Pat Gillick the other day. He stated when he started scouting he thought a prospect’s chance of realizing his potential came from 70% ability and 30% character. However, he soon realized that it’s really 60% character and 40% ability.
Right now, the Yankees are challenging Joba’s character to realize his potential as a pitcher.
In a way the Yanks have given Joba no rope though as a starter….one season. I understand him relieving last year as Hughes was the better choice and they only had one spot open…..but now they have at least one and maybe 2 spots open and Hughes is competing against him. Unless some underlying injury risk is present (which is possible) then I don’t understand ….there may be behind the scenes reasoning behind it all but based on the info we have it makes little sense what they are doing with him.
Hughes isn’t
the yankees kinda painted themselves into a corner with joba by making such declarative statements to go along with each of his moves. they should have just said all along that they will use joba in whatever situation they see as being best for him and the team. they did it to phil without apology and phil got the message to produce or get moved around.
the drama that goes with every joba move now puts alot of pressure on joba and on how the yankees use him. thats not a good situation for development
Gotta run.
Catch you all later.
Joba Chamberlain can’t be living under a rock. He’s fully aware of what has transpired over the winter with the starting staff. Once the Lee deal went south, he should have called Cashman to report his being on a rigorous weight reduction program, express a strong interest in wanting another chance at a rotation spot, and is anxious to get with Larry Rothschild for correction with his pitching mechanics. It hasn’t happened.
This indicates that he’s content with mediocrity.
At this point it’s not likely to shock him when he sees how much more money Phil Hughes will get in his 1st year of arbitration opposed to what he’ll be getting.
Y’s guy,
That’s one thing that’s interesting about Cashman….why does he feel the need to make such definitive statements to the media…..Joba is in the pen, we wont surrender our first round pick, we aren’t in on Teixera, Bubba Crosby is our CFer etc….I know sometimes its a negociating ploy but others its just needlessly as you say “painting yourself in a corner” where you either have to go back on what you said or stick with something that doesn’t make sense……its strange.
108,
I agree those things should have happened and at this point we don’t know if they have or havent……no reports that Joba has taken initiative but we don’t know at this point.
Blake,
I don’t think Cashman looks at it as painting himself in a corner. IMO, I think Cashman views his plan as being a very fluid process in which he has little problem changing direction if circumstances and events causes him to do so.
Agreed blake. Right now, their pen is strong. Mariano and Soriano can alternate closing, oe Soriano can set up. Robertson can set up or pitch the 7th. with the addition of Feliciano as the situational lefty, Logan can pitch either to a single lefty or an enire inning as he’s done last season. That covers he 6th. Mitre could br the long reliever in blowouts.
Joba therefore seems relegated to mop up duty. For that they could sign Justin Duchscherer, Manny Delcarmen, or Jose Veras. It just seems like a waste of talent, unless they’re saying that he really isn’t as talented as we’ve all seen.
And any further bullpen pickups could only mean either he’s being traded or put back in the rotation.
i dont care about the cat and mouse regarding who they are ‘in on’ or who they aren’t. but the media circus they’ve created around joba makes it a pressure cooker. they moved phil twice and it was barely a blip in the media, and may have won them a WS.
but somehow they just cant get it right with joba. now joba’s toeing the rubber with the ball in his hand in important situations, so he’s still got the most to do with it, but the circus atmosphere doesnt work for him, imo.
socal boy phil just shrugs it off.
Crawdaddy,
I don’t have a problem with it….it just seems to me he opens himself up to a lot of criticism by making black and white statements publically. Maybe he doesn’t care and if so that’s fine too.
Blake,
“I don’t have a problem with it….it just seems to me he opens himself up to a lot of criticism by making black and white statements publically. Maybe he doesn’t care and if so that’s fine too.”
I wasn’t saying you did have a problem with it, but just stating my opinion why Cashman doesn’t worry about his pubic comments.
I believe this makes at least the fourth separate news source to report the split between ownership and Cashman on the Soriano deal.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....brian.html
No just ol’ “covering-his-@$$ Buster” and his one source anymore.
the crosby remark is just a red herring to me. it meant nothing but people always bring it up as a complaint. whoever is #1 on the depth chart, be that in november or april, is your starting centerfielder. when you head an organization, you show your respect to your own players by doing that. he’s the starter till another one arrives.
if anybody went through that winter with the impression that crosby was going to be in CF at the big ballyard on opening day, then i have a bridge they might be intetesting in buying.
Y’s Guy,
maybe, I was just using that to make a larger point. Its not really something I feel strongly about……and it doesn’t matter all that much.
yeah, when it comes to communicating with the players and organization its important, when he throws out comments about negotiations and speculation about player movement of people not on the yankees roster, i dont care at all.
im one who believes you dont give your rivals any information you dont have to and where its in your percieved interest to put up a smokescreen, by all means do it.
girardi got alot of crap about not being straight with the media about injuries his first year managing, i was fine with it. to me you dont tell anybody when one of your guys on the 25 man is injured. he’s a player on the squad and if faking that he’s available when he’s not gives you an advantage, take it.
Saint- that is an interesting contrast. All I can think is that they felt Joba has more talent than IPK.
Which brings Gillick’s line (courtesy of Crawdaddy) about the relatinship between talent and character in success.
I’m not overly high on Phil anymore, but cherry picking some of Joba’s starts to compare his with Phil’s is not fair. Yes, Joba had some great starts in 2008, but so did Phil in 2010 – early on, that is. Phil’s #s early were incredible, so he showed just as much at that point as Joba did in his 8 starts (I think it was
in 2008. Phil’s #s starting are completely skewed by his injury in 2008. His #s in 2007, despite the injuries, are very good for a 21 year old in the AL East. Joba’s 2009 was such that while he didn’t deserve to lose his job, it wasn’t that great – period. Yes, I know about the innings limits, but that doesn’t excuse Joba from going out in each start and making watching each start as painful as getting a tooth pulled without novocaine. As to ceilings, well it’s not a permanent, fixed in stone type of thing. I think Phil’s ceiling at this point is that of a mid-rotation starter. Joba’s is probably that as well. Can the ceilings change? Yes, but they aren’t babies anymore – Joba’s 25 and Phil is almost 25 – at some point, they are who they are. In any case, I agree that Joba is more valuable (since he’s not that good a reliever) as a starter (even just a solid or average one) than as a reliever.
Blake, was Phil the better choice? We don’t know what Joba would have done………they both had mediocre ST. Phil won the job based simply on the change up – but then he never used the change anyway. I realize that leaving Joba to start would have forced Phil back to the pen for another year, but either way one young pitcher was not going to be starting. Now that I think about it, although Joba was tremendously frustrating in 2009, he didn’t pitch badly enough to lose his job.
“…..unless they’re saying that he really isn’t as talented as we’ve all seen”.
*******************
By George I think they’ve got it!
It might be in his interests to add in a qualifier such as “at this time” or “right now” or “Our current plan” that gives him a bit more credibility than to have to back track on absolute statements.
The problem with absolutes is you shouldn’t make them unless you have control of the end result. Cashman will always have ownership authority above him that can mandate a move or veto a move. It’s why he shouldn’t make absolute statements and it’s also why much of the criticism of a G.M. is unfair and ignorant.
We don’t know which decisions are his and which are made by ownership and we probably never will. Did the Steinbrothers order him to make a deal for Soriano? I suspect so, but honestly don’t know. They certainly signed off on the contract, which to me doesn’t make much sense. I can see him being able to buy his way/opt
out of year two or three but for the life of me do not understand the Yankees paying him to do so.
Joe,
If they feel that Joba is more talented than IPK, then fine. But last time I checked, IPK was in Arizona’s starting rotation and was 9-10 with a 3.80 ERA, WITH 114 SO in 203 IP.
Joba as of right now is still a middle reliever. Time to showcase that talent now that there’s another heir apparent to Mariano.
They traded IPK for Granderson – it’s not like they traded him for a bag of baseballs.
Crawdaddy I think I agree with you about fluid situations.
I think it was John Maynard Keyes, the famous economist, who said “When the situation changes, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”
Saint, you’re right about that. I think everyone’s disappointed in ol’ Joba. Like that that line from Pat Gillick, above, and the importance of character.
I believe the only reason that this Joba conversation is happening again, is because we have a mediocre rotation with no help in sight. No one would be discussing this if Lee had signed and/or Pettitte had returned. And that need doesn’t make it a good decision.
I seems to me that moving Joba to the rotation is not the right decision, based on the merits. That would be the considered opinion of the Yankee staff, it’s not like they don’t have a taste of what he can and can’t do.
If he was good enough to start for this team, he would have been. He’s not, so he won’t.
Betsy,
Yes, I say without any hesitation that Hughes was the correct choice and I think he proved as much with his season…..he pitched well for any pitcher in the AL east let alone his first season starting all together. Hughes was more mature, more ready for the job.
That said, it doesn’t mean they should leave Joba in the bullpen forever unless there is some underlying injury risk that warrants it.
The only thing that would make any sense to me to being closed to the possibility of Joba returning to the rotation is the shoulder. The Yankees know a lot more than any of us know about the condition his shoulder is in and what the workload of starting would/could do to it.
When you’re this desperate for starters that Sergio Mitre is penciled into your rotation the only thing I can fathom on why Joba wouldn’t even be given one more chance is health.
We know his head is made of concrete, but the Yankees had a lot of patience with Cano and Melky when they were “maturing” and going through ups and downs.
It’s got to be his shoulder. They can’t say that publicly for a multitude of reasons.
It also would make the prospect of trading him thin if another team sees his medicals in the same eyes the Yankees see them.
# Rich in NJ January 15th, 2011 at 1:35 am
SAS
If Joba does well on another team, maybe it would be an indication that the Yankees aren’t good at developing pitchers and that heads need to roll.
———————————————————–
Yea developing pitching is not their strong suit. They do a good job at collecting talent but they need to improve on maximizing that talent.
I don’t get that quote – so if a pitcher doesn’t reach his ceiling it’s because he has a lack of character? Maybe it’s the evaluators who were wrong about the pitcher’s ceiling – just because scouts project someone to be some great pitcher and he doesn’t turn out to be that, that doesn’t mean the pitcher lacks character.
# Rich in NJ January 15th, 2011 at 1:38 am
“The anti Cashman crusad[e] is gaining new members everyday lol. Cashman is taking it on the chin right now.:
It seems that the owners hung him out to dry.
“Him being traded would be a crash landing end to his Yankee career but hey it could motivate him. The new pitching could tell Joba over and over they didn’t want you, they lost faith in your abilities, they felt guys like Mitre and Nova were better options, they didn’t trust you to set-up Mo, etc. Well now prove them wrong prove all of them wrong fans, media, and the yankees.”
I don’t believe that he isn’t motivated.
Just going by performance, I think it’s apparent that Joba is a better option than AJ, so why go past that to any other pitcher?
At least give Joba a year with Rothschild before making any decisions.
————————————————————————————-
I hear what you’re saying but that decision might have already been made. Joba is the one player they refused to deal for Haren and now with the report that they would consider moving it’s not crazy to say the pitcher they get might not be as good as Haren. Hey I would love nothing more than to see him start games in pinstripes and prove everyone wrong.
AS to the Daily News article, I still doubt this “source” -but if this is true, then Cash and Hal clearly aren’t on the same page in terms of how their vision for the team…..and that maybe means a new GM as soon as Cash’s contract is up. Still, what GM wants to work for owners that are going to constantly overrule them – or, that is, overrule them on big deals such as this?
WCYF,
Yes but had they signed Lee then they wouldn’t have signed Soriano and Joba could have held down a more prominent spot in the bullpen…..
Ok Blake, we disagree on Phil……………and although I have no idea what Joba’s true ceiling is, at this point he’s a better option than the garbage that’s remaining out there. Michael Kay said on his show that this is not happening, though, as the Yankees simply do not think he can hold up as a starter.
# Rich in NJ January 15th, 2011 at 2:06 am
BoJo
Whatever works.
__
“Why the sudden urge for Joba to start? If he fails all we will hear is this kid was always a reliever yada yada yada. People flip flop every day.”
This is false. Many of us never wanted him to be anything but a starter.
He was dominant as a starter before the shoulder injury in 2008, and even coming off that injury and with an innings cap, he was a better starer in 2009 than Vazquez and Burnett were in 2010.
So I don’t know what people you are talking about.
————————————————–
When it comes to Joba and his detractors opinions become fact. “He never threw hard as a starter. He was born a reliever. He stunk as a starter. He was given a chance and failed.” SMH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GLove, that could be it – as Kay said, the Yankees don’t think he’d hold up as a starter……..perhaps his shoulder IS weakened to that point. In that case, he should be traded ASAP – which makes the non-Haren deal a complete puzzler.
G. Love,
Yes I agree and that’s certainly a possibility but the Yanks haven’t disclosed that to the public so people aren’t going to make that assumption.
# Sweet Swinging Cano January 15th, 2011 at 2:25 am
It would sadden me to see him traded. I just want to see him pitch with conviction again. Making him a starter again would make the Yankees look like a joke honestly.
————————————————–
They would look like a joke it they presented properly. Lee went to the Phils, Andy might retire, Mitre is a serious option, etc. All of those are things they can lean on when presenting starting him again.
I wonder if the Soriano signing will impact Papelbon’s upcoming arbitration case.
As for Joba, unless he learns to repeat his delivery he’ll be never reach his potential. His mechanics are all over the place. Perhaps it’s due to his body mass, but by all accounts Joba is a very hard worker.
If the Yankees don’t feel that Joba can hold up as a starter for health reasons then why don’t they just say so and end the firestorm that surrounds him……
# West Coast Yankee Fan January 15th, 2011 at 2:34 am
It wasn’t a mistake at all. Hughes beat him and was 18-8.
——————————————————————
Hughes didn’t beat him he was given the role. It was obvious to see Hughes was the guy.
Betsy most owners use their veto quite frequently. It’s their team and their money. If Cashman could get a better job/situaiton elsewhere he’d be gone in a heartbeat, wouldn’t he?
Ask the Houston G.M about total freedom. Nolan Ryan signs off on EVERYTHING the Rangers do. There probably aren’t 5 GMs in baseball who are given a budget and carte blanche to do whatever they deem necessary within that budget.
I once spoke with a former GM who was with a franchise known for “hands off” ownership. When I asked him about it he smirked and said, “Son, there’s no such thing as hands off ownership”. He then went on to tell me that EVERY significant trade he negotiated got to a certain point at which one or both GMs would have to “clear it upstairs”.
I still never got how Hughes was handed the role…….and I still don’t think he was.
86, this wasn’t a veto. IF this is true (and I doubt it), then Hal and Hank have completely different visions of how to build a team than Cash does. This was a HUGE deal to force on Cash (again, if true). I am well aware that an owner has to approve moves a GM wants to make – this isn’t the case here.
Character as in make-up. We don’t all have the same level of drive or determination. Some have more determination than talent and are successful; some have more talent than determination and don’t. And it’s just the make-up of a person. It doesn’t make a person good or bad.
i think you sell hughes short betsy. you say his ceiling is what he was in his first full season as a starter, allowing for no improvment. i disagree, i expect him to get better as he improves, gets to know hitters better and develops and changes his mix.
sweeney just said on wfan that he thinks andy pettitte is coming back.
blake January 15th, 2011 at 10:57 am
WCYF, Yes but had they signed Lee then they wouldn’t have signed Soriano and Joba could have held down a more prominent spot in the bullpen…..
*************
Not necessarily. They still needed an 8th inning guy. That’s why they had to go get Wood mid-season in 2010. Joba wasn’t capable of being that guy. He had his shot. He failed. He’s a middle reliever right now.
It was a mistake not to trade him a long time ago whe he had trade value, many Yankee fans were calling for that. But the hype of a short stint in 2007 got in the way of sound baseball judgment IMO.
Let Joba go to camp in shape, work his butt off and dominate in relief. That’s his job right now.
Ys guy, I think Phil is very capable of improving, but the reason I have a “wait and see” attitude is because I don’t know at age 24, going on 25, that he’s all of a sudden going to develop a good curve and that he’s all of a sudden going to decide that he should throw the change (I have a feeling he has the makings of a good one if he would ever commit to it). As long as he remains a 2 pitch pitcher, his ceiling is limited. I think Phil works very hard and he’s a very good kid – he’s not a pain in the rear to deal with and I think he’s respected in the clubhouse. I really hope that he makes that leap to being the pitcher the Yankees think he can be…….
So if Andy comes back it makes Cashman’s winter a success?
Some want a miracle from the guy for another starter, it’s not realistic.
“A J simply walks too many batters ! Great stuff wasted !”
aj rotates so much like a spinning top that it creates both the stuff and walks.
he spins too much . he releases too soon he misses arm side. if he releases late he misses glove side.
a pitcher like hughes who drives to the plate and comes over the top tends to miss up and down.
missing up and down is a lot better than missing sideways. a ball on the outside of the plate may be more effective down but it’s still not a bad pitch if it’s up and on the black.
a pitch that misses to the middle of the plate is a real problem.
that’s what aj does.
when his timing is on he releases the ball consistently hits his spots and gets away with the sideways spnning. but it’s too delicate of a timing to ever be consistent. it would be much better to have him drive to the plate more and have his misses be more up and down.
Betsy —
Of course it’s the same thing. If you veto a proposed trade/free agent signing or veto a plan NOT to make a trade/free agent signing there is absolutely ZERO difference. It’s ownership overriding the plan of the GM and it happens all the time… maybe not publicly but it happens in every organization.
One overrule/veto does not mean they have “completely different visions”. It means they disagreed on the value of the 31st pick in the 2011 draft. That’s all.
Blake —
IF the Yankees are convinced Joba’s shoulder would not hold up as a starter it would be insanity to diminish his value by announcing it. If another team thinks Joba can start and makes an offer for him based on that and he passes their physical then there’s a deal to be made.
At 33, I can’t see AJ’s mechanics being overhauled, but the goal isn’t to get him to be a great pitcher, it’s simply to get him to be decent.
Let Joba go to camp in shape, work his butt off and dominate in relief. That’s his job right now.
======================================================
Once Robo beats him out for the 7th ining Joba will be relegated to the 6th.
Think he’ll get bored with that in a minute.
The Yankees can’t publicly say they can’t put Joba in the rotation because of fear for his health. That would kill any trade value he has. You don’t talk about your players weaknesses in public unless you are stupid.
The Yankees aren’t hiding an injury. We saw what happened to his stuff after his shoulder issue put him on the DL. It’s never been the same.
There was talk of rehab and Joba learning new mechanics. He still has never been the same pitcher. It’s a different fastball and slider than what he had before the shoulder setback.
To me, that has to be the reason why he’s a reliever and why the Yankees know they can’t depend on him.
It’s all speculation, mind you, but when your team has a rotation like ours it should be all hands on deck and any pitcher who can start should be strongly considered.
If the choice was Mitre vs. putting Joba back in the rotation I take Joba.
I’m just wondering if the after the full season he started his shoulder looked to be in bad shape.
It’s what happened to Papelschmo in Boston when his shoulder was not up to starting. He functions fine as a reliever health wise but they realized starting could end his career.
86, ok that’s true, but that News article did specifically say that Hal and Hank are not happy with Cashman’s plan:
“According to the source, the Steinbrenners were bothered by Cashman’s blueprint. One of the big issues was that Joba Chamberlain, a prized prospect yet to reach an expected high ceiling, was going to be Rivera’s primary set-up man.”
I don’t think this has anything to do with the overall vision of how to build the team. The Steinbrenners have consistently been on board with Cashman’s rebuilding of the farm system. This has everything to do with Lee not coming here; no other starters available; losing Kerry Wood; Chamberlain not meeting even his lowered expectations. It has to do with the Steinbrenners not wanting a bridge year; it has to do with not wanting to lose money (like the Red Sox did last season).
If the ownership group overruled Cashman on this move, they had reasons, and it does not necessarily mean that there is a major split in overall philosophy – just a difference in how they felt they needed to move this season.
Many have clamored for a return to the way George did things. Well, George often did things like this – used his final say as owner to make a decision. Seems to me there was back-and-forth on this and a decision had to be made before another team came and took the decision out of their hands.
I guess we’ll see how it shakes out going forward.
I don’t see Cashman’s resignation being tendered or requested.
And, just for the record, I don’t expect Cashman to re-up when his contract is done, and it will have nothing to do with this.
Yankees screwed with Joba’s head and I feel that Joba deserves a chance to prove himself in the rotation. I say unleash Joba in the rotation as there are no more Joba rules and lets see what happens. I’m pretty sure majority of Yankees fans would rather have a full year of Joba in the rotation over both Nova and Mitre. Cashman should sign Jon Rauch to replace Joba in the rotation and lets go to war with CC, Hughes, Burnett, Joba and Nova/Duscherer.
Randy
Does AJ have too many moving parts or is it more his lack of concentration?
I may be the only one, but I don’t get all the disrespect for Mitre, especially in the context of a number 5.
The man is only 105 MLB innings removed from Tommy John.
Granted the first 50 innings were not pretty.
But what is it about the next 50 (last year) that has (almost) everybody saying he sucked?
http://www.baseball-reference......se01.shtml
With his arm strength back, and a new coach to work with, I don’t think he is such a terrible option, as everybody is making him out to be. I really like the movement he generates, and with the right coach maybe he can put it all together.
I would rather see Mitre, Joba and Nova competing for the 4 and 5 spots, over signing some over the hill re-tread starter.
It’s amazing if Joba’s shoulder is still a problem. I mean, tendonitis? That’s supposed to be a very minor “injury”……..and yet possibly it’s helped wreck Joba (that and his lousy mechanics)? How unfortunate…………Phil suffered worse injuries and is no worse for the wear – just a matter of luck for the two kids I guess.
They were not happy with Cashman’s plan going into THIS SEASON.
They did not want to rely on Chamberlain.
86,
Yea I see that but that’s also why I think its time to act with Joba…..either start him or if injury risk is a concern then trade him……the farther he gets from being a starting pitcher, the lower his trade value is going to go, especially if he’s kept in a middle relief role and isn’t seen as a future closer/dominant set up man. If there are teams out there that still think he can start…..will they still think that next year after another year in the bullpen?
Trade prediction: Three way between Yankees, Mariners and the Orioles.
King Felix to the Yankees.
Montero, Nova, Robertson, Boone Logan, Brandon Laird, David Phelps, Nunez & Adams to the Mariners.
AJ Burnett to the Orioles (his hometown team).
Orioles send us their worst prospect in their systems.
King Felix, CC, Hughes, Joba and Duscherer.
Tar -
You’re not alone.
But it’s like whistling in the wind.
Prior could steal Joba’s “job.”
Where would that leave him? If not traded , why not air him out once more and see if he’s done?
“In the coming draft, the Red Sox have four of the first 40 picks and the Rays reportedly have at least seven between Nos. 24 and 51″.
*******************************
How much more evidence does a Yankee fan need that Brian Cashman isn’t doing a good job?
What kind of evidence is that, WC? That means nothing. All that means is that the Sox and Rays lost a few FAs…………that’s not on Cashman.
Tar,
Nah I agree. Mitre is good in a long relief/spot starter role. If his sinker is working he can be very effective……the problem is that without regular work it can get flat and he doesn’t seem to be able to fool hitters for more than a couple times through a lineup. I like him quite a bit in the role he was in last season….they just need to find a way to keep him sharp.
Don’t forget that we have a sandwich pick thanks to Javy………
Sure it is Betsy. Accumlulating top draft picks is one of the primary jobs of a GM. Next years drat is supposed to be one of the best at least in the first round or so. That’s why Cashman didn’t want to give up picks for Soriano. Unfortunately, the hiuge holes the team had to fill, had to trump that.
If you remember, Cashman demanded to be in charge of baseball ops. He has been.
sp – accumulating
Thanks Doreen and Blake. I was feeling like I was missing some part of the equation. It seems to be “fashionable” to hate on Mitre.
Knowing your with me, makes me a feel a lot better.
Blake
ugly win the other night. Hope Mrs. Blake wasn’t too upset.
Betsy, Theo masterfully worked the acquisition/arbitration game and rules to acquire picks. You know that.
# West Coast Yankee Fan January 15th, 2011 at 11:12 am
Let Joba go to camp in shape, work his butt off and dominate in relief. That’s his job right now.
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Middle relievers are a dime a dozen
If Joba has what it takes he needs to prove it. Whatever his role is. Build his value back up, get people out. It’s not brain surgery.
Tar,
Yea shes actually a hokie and Heel so she tolerates a basketball win a lot more than a football one. Two nail biters….I think the Kendall Marshall era has begun….time to let him play. Barnes also showed a flash of his potential for once as well.
Off to the NAMM convention in Anaheim to take photos of rock stars falling of the stage. Enjoy your Saturday everyone.
WC, I’m just not going to kiss Theo’s butt……….you tell me how the Yankees were going to accumulate picks. They have a sandwich pick for Javy -what other FA did they lose?
at this point, I would rather see our own guys, whether it be Joba/Nova/Mitre/whoever, as starters than some washed up pitcher. I am still hopeful Andy returns.
Blake
Henson had a monster game as well. Henson and Marshall playing like that could be huge. With Barnes, it seems like it’s simply a matter of confidence.
# Betsy January 15th, 2011 at 11:04 am
I still never got how Hughes was handed the role…….and I still don’t think he was.
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When the season ended in 2009 many fans felt ok now we get to see Hughes and Joba in the rotation together but then news started to come out that the Yankees were in search for a starter…enter Javy. Once Javy was acquired it meant Hughes and Joba were battling for one spot. Now someone might say well couldn’t one of them have been sent to the minors. Yes they could have but by doing so you’re sending down a vital part of the championship run to AAA. Since Hughes needed the innings more than Joba he wasn’t going to spend another yr in the pen. Another yr would have delayed his progression as a starter and the Yankees couldn’t afford to do that. Since Joba ended 2009 as a reliever and “struggled” at moments during the yr putting him in the pen wouldn’t be considered the worst thing since Hughes went there and dominated. Plus Cashman came out more than once and reaffirmed his stance that Joba was still a starter even though he was in the pen.
“What do Mike Mussina, David Wells, Roger Clemens and Kenny Rogers have in common? The all rebounded fron seasons like Burnett’s tp have at least one 18-20 win season.”
gb7-
if they threw as many innings as burnett did:
clemens highest era was 4.60 yankees first year
mussina-4.81 age 27
david wells-4.76 age 39
kenny rogers-4.76 age 39
i’m not saying he can’t come back. i’m just saying it’s unusual to have that high an era for that many innings and come back to being a good pitcher.
too have that many innings he was healthy and bad. that’s the red flag.
maybe rothschild can get him right back too low 4′s.
that’s what i’m hoping , but cashman really should have a watch on burnett knowing that last year was a major red flag. they can’t let him just keep going out there like that if he’s that bad.
if it’s at the all star break and aj is as bad as last year, they need to forget the salary and make a change.
Tar,
I agree. Barnes seems tentative. Henson has improved a ton sense last year. They are a worm in progress but progress is being made so that’s good.
Since not sense
Plus Cashman came out more than once and reaffirmed his stance that Joba was still a starter even though he was in the pen.
==========================
What qualification does a GM have to say whether a pitcher is a starter or not?
I would think a manager or at least a pitching coach would have more input into that.
Seems like Cash is being made the fall guy more often than not.
# West Coast Yankee Fan January 15th, 2011 at 11:31 am
“In the coming draft, the Red Sox have four of the first 40 picks and the Rays reportedly have at least seven between Nos. 24 and 51?.
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How much more evidence does a Yankee fan need that Brian Cashman isn’t doing a good job?
————
LOL.
And the Rays’ front office has done a very good job of letting their free agents walk and completely dismantling a playoff team and AL East winner. Almost like Jerry Krause and the Bulls.
The Rays will be fortunate to play above .500 ball this season and you want to compare them to the Yanks?
You’re more clueless than I thought.
Against all Odds, I don’t think Phil’s innings played any role in their choosing to start him in 2010. I just don’t think he was handed the role at all. Now maybe they wanted Phil to win it because they look at him as a starter, but IMO it was a real competition with Joba. I still think it was not smart to take Joba’s job away – he wasn’t that good in 2009, but he wasn’t bad enough to lose his job.
# mick January 15th, 2011 at 11:53 am
Plus Cashman came out more than once and reaffirmed his stance that Joba was still a starter even though he was in the pen.
==========================
What qualification does a GM have to say whether a pitcher is a starter or not?
I would think a manager or at least a pitching coach would have more input into that.
Seems like Cash is being made the fall guy more often than not.
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Maybe or maybe the whole starter in pen thing was just bs because according to Cashman they told Joba in ST 2010 that he was a reliever and that’s it. Remember Eppler and Eiland came out when Hughes was announced as the starter in the 5th spot and stated that Joba would not starter again…ever. Then Cashman came out and put out the fires.
# Betsy January 15th, 2011 at 11:57 am
Against all Odds, I don’t think Phil’s innings played any role in their choosing to start him in 2010. I just don’t think he was handed the role at all. Now maybe they wanted Phil to win it because they look at him as a starter, but IMO it was a real competition with Joba. I still think it was not smart to take Joba’s job away – he wasn’t that good in 2009, but he wasn’t bad enough to lose his job.
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I hear what you’re saying the reason why I say his innings played a role is because every yr that passes by without him getting 30 ML starts it delays his development. 07-08 were injury seasons and 09 was a yr in the pen.
I agree his 2009 didn’t warrant being banished to the pen. They could have at least sent him to AAA
Maybe or maybe the whole starter in pen thing was just bs because according to Cashman they told Joba in ST 2010 that he was a reliever and that’s it. Remember Eppler and Eiland came out when Hughes was announced as the starter in the 5th spot and stated that Joba would not starter again…ever. Then Cashman came out and put out the fires.
===========================================
Sounds more like the right hand knows not what the left hand is doing.
Maybe that’s why Eiland was fired.
The whole thing with Joba has prob. been made more complicated than it really is.
Since he serves no role on this team and we could use a 5th starter, it would be wise to try him one more time and let him sink or swim. Even if he’s good enough to start, his trade value would rise. That’s my try at GM.
The Rays will never be accused of paying a luxury tax at least for as long as they’re based where they are.
Their business model calls for letting players walk as soon as they approach free agent status and replaced by a young, cost controlled group who will eventually follow the same path.
Their farm system will live and breathe on high draft picks, luxury tax money, and income from concession sales. Ticket sales, and TV / radio revenues carry the rest of the team’s overhead.
# mick January 15th, 2011 at 12:03 pm
Maybe or maybe the whole starter in pen thing was just bs because according to Cashman they told Joba in ST 2010 that he was a reliever and that’s it. Remember Eppler and Eiland came out when Hughes was announced as the starter in the 5th spot and stated that Joba would not starter again…ever. Then Cashman came out and put out the fires.
===========================================
Sounds more like the right hand knows not what the left hand is doing.
Maybe that’s why Eiland was fired.
The whole thing with Joba has prob. been made more complicated than it really is.
Since he serves no role on this team and we could use a 5th starter, it would be wise to try him one more time and let him sink or swim. Even if he’s good enough to start, his trade value would rise. That’s my try at GM.
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Well there is a thought that ppl overruled Cashman on Joba’s role. Who knows what happened for sure.
I agree let him come into camp as a starter and let’s see what we have.
“Does AJ have too many moving parts or is it more his lack of concentration?”
this was an post that i think sums up the problem with aj:
randy l. September 12th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
i think what leiter was saying about aj being a right to left pitcher which cause trouble with his release point is correct.
i would call aj’s motion a rotational motion where he has to time his release as his hand is moving horizontally sideways because of how his body rotates.
there is a drill called the “T” drill that is often taught young pro players especially shortstops and third baseman who can’t miss left and right to first base without causing problems.
in the drill, the player stands like a “T” with his front hand pointing where he’s going to throw the ball and his back hand straight back with the ball. therefore the “T”.
the player then imagines a verticle glass pane( or plane) right though his body to the target he is throwing to.
he is supposed to keep the ball on this plane of glass at all times. any rotational movement side to side and the ball will come out of the plane. a good example of this is clemens . he has the ball in the plane of glass at all times right through release.
if the ball stays in the plane of glass and it is released early, the ball goes high. if late the ball goes low. at no time can the ball miss right or left.
that’s why most shortstops and third basemen throw over the top and in the imaginary glass plane and only miss up and down and not sideways.
amateur players at lower levels miss right and left a lot because of their rotational motion.
the problem with getting aj to stay in the verticle glass plane better is that he’s never done it. how can you change him now.
the side to side delivery and timed release creates the motion and good stuff he has on the ball.
the problem is he misses sideways instead of up and down.
at this point in his career, probably all that can be done is try to refine the release point of his rotational delivery.
side to side lack of command is built into his delivery so i don’t see how he’ll ever be consistent. you just have to make the best of it.
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....nt-1029763
Betsy January 15th, 2011 at 11:06 am
86, this wasn’t a veto. IF this is true (and I doubt it), then Hal and Hank have completely different visions of how to build a team than Cash does. This was a HUGE deal to force on Cash (again, if true). I am well aware that an owner has to approve moves a GM wants to make – this isn’t the case here.
—
A difference in opinion of *one* player whose total contract for 3 years is $35mil does *not* mean there is are “completely different visions of how to build a team”. A-Rod makes almost that much in *one year*.
You are blowing things out of proportion greatly.
Giuseppe Franco January 15th, 2011 at 11:54 am
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When you have to explain to someone that the teams with all those draft picks, are the teams that let their players walk in FA, you’re wasting your time, they don’t unferstand the game.
How is the GM of the Rays doing a better job than Cashman, when he allowed the playoff team to become perhaps a 3rd or 4th place team, and hopes to turn those draft picks into good players 3-5 years down the road.
Maybe the Yankees should have allowed Mo and Jeter to leave via FA, so Cashman would have all those draft picks to cheer about, lol.
The Yanks were in on Soriano for quite a while; it wasn’t a last second swoop. Cashman wanted Soriano, period. Joba as setup was not his “blueprint.”
Now he has Soriano and a “source” giving a CYA-to-the-world if Soriano turns out to be a bust. Cashman is the consummate survivor.
Randy, AJ has prob always excelled at every level without having to think too much, his natural ability overruling all. He has never had to be a “pitcher.” It could be that time is arriving, as it does with most pitchers, that he has to learn to be a pitcher. Even Andy seemed to do this , as late as last season. Maybe AJ still has enough raw talent to get by, but eventually, maybe his walk year, he will settle down and become a pitcher.
Maybe the Yankees should have allowed Mo and Jeter to leave via FA, so Cashman would have all those draft picks to cheer about, lol.
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true and maybe the yanks could have been lousy all those years to get more draft picks…
mick January 15th, 2011 at 11:28 am
Prior could steal Joba’s “job.”
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I was just going to mention that perhaps the biggest thing that could impact where Joba pitches is how well Prior does in ST. If Prior does well, he absolutely frees up Yankees to give Joba a shot at starting.
Regarding his hsoulder and how weak it is…I was concerned when Joba was 23 and having some shoulder issues, but his body has now fully matured at 25, and the shoulder has had time to recover. His throwing 98mph last season indicated to me that it is strong.
The difference that Rothschild has pointed out is that Joba has dropped his arm slot, which has lost some movement in his slider and fastball. He intends to correct that…so Joba should have his electric stuff back. If he can do that, and Joba is stronger, I would start him in ST…let him build up to 5 innings per start…that is all we need.
West Coast Yankee Fan January 15th, 2011 at 11:42 am
Off to the NAMM convention in Anaheim
++++++++++++++++++++
You spelled NAMBLA wrong.
Randy, so basically you are saying AJ has poor mechanics and not enough concentration to fix them?
BoJo -
Another nail on the head!
what are you guys problem with wcyf?
that nambla remark was beyond crude.
I have to laugh at one argument that Joba is a reliever only “because that is what the management determined, and they know best” while the same person is always calling Cashman clueless. Priceless.
BoJo -
WCYF could also be called a ventriloquist, since he spends so much time in public, talking to himself, while pretending to be someone else.
mick January 15th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
what are you guys problem with wcyf?
that nambla remark was beyond crude.
++++++++++++++++
My bad. I have a different sense of humor than most.
Later folks, have a good day.
Big Al–
I suspect you often read the DN Blogging the Bombers blog as well…is that right?
BoJo -
Yes. Got to go now, later.
mick-
no i’m sayimg like leiter said that burnett rotates his bod drammatically right to left.
it’s not concentration. it’s a timing problem caused by havng to be too fine with his timing to be on.
try it yourself. wad up a newspaper page.
rotate you body like a top and release the paper early.
you’ll hit the lamp on the right.
release the paper late and you’ll hit the lamp on the left.
burnett just has a bad mechanical move that he’s had all his life.
the problem with getting older is that his physical timing isn’t going to be as good so he’s going to have fewer of those on days.
rothschild will have his work cut out for him.it’s not easy to change a lifetime of doing things one way.
Randy
I just broke a lamp. My wife is going to kill you.
mick-
so bad mechanics is it. but a lifetime of bad mechanics.
ok so it’s mechanical, i get it, it’s also where he gets his action from, tough dilemma, to fix it he will probably lose spin. it comes so natural to him it might be unfixable, quite a fix…
thanks for the tips randy, now i have to buy a new lamp…
…or try to fix it.
randy
have you had any encounters with the real mick?
The whole Joba things sounds to me like Aaron Heilman II.
Ok, follow me on this:
Mariano, Soriano, Feliciano, and Logan are set. That’s 4 slots.
Robertson is pretty much a lock. That’s the 5th slot.
ST competition will be amongst Prior, Sisco, Sanchez, Fish, and Turpen, at least for now, with more names probably in the mix as well for the 7th and last position in the pen.
Joba currently occupies the 6th slot in the pen, but that could very well be occupied by Mitre or Nova instead if Joba is allowed to compete for a SP slot
If the Yankees sign ANY OTHER FA reliever (Rauch/Duchscherer/Fuentes), it could be interpreted as a move to free up Joba or Robertson for either a starting slot or a trade. I can’t see Robertson being traded, but you never know. Maybe Cashman is compiling the pieces he needs for that Upton trade.
More likely, a signing would mean that Joba is now free for the rotation. To me that’s the final clue, whether another reliever is signed.
Time will tell if I’m right.
are you not real Mick?
Maybe AJ still has enough raw talent to get by, but eventually, maybe his walk year, he will settle down and become a pitcher.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
His walk year is 2013. Nobody wants to give him a free ride for 2011-2012.
Would love to be a fly on the wall in that Maryland barn to see what Larry Rothchild’s thoughts are toward fixing him going forward to spring training. Being a .500 pitcher just won’t cut it.
upstate kate January 15th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
are you not real Mick?
+++++++++++++
If he is, he sure won’t smell too good.
108 stitches January 15th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
Maybe AJ still has enough raw talent to get by, but eventually, maybe his walk year, he will settle down and become a pitcher.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
His walk year is 2013. Nobody wants to give him a free ride for 2011-2012.
+++++++++++++++++++
Maybe they should retroactively grant him player’s options to his contract–as with Soriano. Give him incentive to perform! “-)
BoJo
An hommage to the late, great Leslie Nielsen.
mick and bojo-
sorry about the lamps.
i knew there was a reason why i stopped posting how to get in touch with me
no mick i never got to meet the real mick. i wish i did.
i did see him from a few feet away when he was getting into a taxi when i was about eight. what i remember was his shoulders were incredibly broad with the most muscular neck i had ever seen.
BoJo January 15th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
West Coast Yankee Fan January 15th, 2011 at 11:42 am
Off to the NAMM convention in Anaheim
++++++++++++++++++++
You spelled NAMBLA wrong
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you beat to that one, Bojo, I was thinking the exact same thing when I scrolled quickly past the troll’s posts.