Pinch hitting: Gil Teitelbaum
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Pinch hitters on Jan 17, 2011 
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Next up in our Pinch Hitters series is Gil Teitelbaum, a computer programer who lives in Israel with his wife and four kids. Gil is a longtime Yankees fan, who says he’s hoping baseball will eventually become as popular in Israel as it is in the United States. He took a statistical look at the Yankees bench and bullpen from 1996 through 2010, trying to determine what kind of role those reserve players might have played in the Yankees successes and failures of the past decade and a half.
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The Yankees won the World Series four times over the 1996-2000 seasons. In the ten years since, the Yankees have won the World Series only once. Were those great teams built to better succeed in the playoffs?
I have had the impression that over the last ten years, the Yankees have sacrificed the bench and bullpen strength in favor of having an all star caliber player at each position. I wanted to take a look and see if the quality of the bench and bullpen really has declined over the last ten years.
I wanted to find statistics that could convey both the quality and the quantity of the bench and bullpen. Bench players and bullpen pitchers don’t play every day – I chose to look at ERA and OPS since those numbers aren’t affected by at bats or innings pitched. Players who do not perform well during the regular season are rarely going to play in the playoffs – so I didn’t want to look at team totals for reliever ERA or OPS.
Pitchers: Relievers with ERAs above certain thresholds:
| Year | ERA Below 3 | ERA Below 4
(but above 3) |
ERA Below 5
(but above 4) |
Total |
| 1996 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 4 |
| 1997 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 6 |
| 1998 | 2 | 3 | 0 | 5 |
| 1999 | 2 | 1 | 4 | 7 |
| 2000 | 2 | 0 | 3 | 5 |
| 2001 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 7 |
| 2002 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 4 |
| 2003 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 3 |
| 2004 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 3 |
| 2005 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 |
| 2006 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 5 |
| 2007 | 2 | 2 | 4 | 8 |
| 2008 | 4 | 3 | 1 | 8 |
| 2009 | 1 | 4 | 1 | 6 |
| 2010 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 7 |
Hitters: Bench players with OPS exceeding certain percentages:
| Year | OPS above .700 (but below .800) | OPS above .800 (but below .900) | OPS above .900 | Total |
| 1996 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 4 |
| 1997 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 5 |
| 1998 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 4 |
| 1999 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2 |
| 2000 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 4 |
| 2001 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
| 2002 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 |
| 2003 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 4 |
| 2004 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 4 |
| 2005 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 3 |
| 2006 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 |
| 2007 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 |
| 2008 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
| 2009 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 4 |
| 2010 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 |
Given that anything can happen over a short playoff series, I didn’t want to analyze the results on a year to year basis because this can be misleading. I wanted to look at a range of years to see how the makeup of a team over a span of several years affected winning in the playoffs.
After taking a look at the numbers I saw that:
• The Yankees had a strong bullpen from 1996 to 2001 and from 2006 to 2010.
• The Yankees had a strong bench from 1996 to 2000 and from 2003 to 2005
• There is rarely a time over the last ten years that the Yankees have had both a great bench and a great bullpen (Except in 2009)
• There weren’t any relievers that performed consistently well for the Yankees for any span of time longer than two years (with the exception of Mariano Rivera of course) over the last 10 years. This is in contrast crew of Rivera, Nelson, Stanton, Mendoza and Lloyd who were together in the late-90s and mostly performed well for a good number of years.
• My starting assumption was that the Yankees had a good lineup and rotation between 1996 and 2010 and that the major variable was bullpen and bench strength and depth. This was not entirely the case – between 2004 and 2008 was rather shaky. It was clear that the bullpen and bench depth were not the worst shortcomings of the 2004-2005 teams.
Associated Press photo of Rivera
Good idea for a post. Ill let someone else comment on the methodology (Lgy, face) but its an interesting topic.
blake-
Not bad for a guy comin’ in off the bench, or out of the BP.
Looks like he did his job for the 2011 team.
Interesting topic. While the data used is somewhat limited (by choice an necessity?), at least there were some conclusions drawn as a result, addressing the importance of the bench.
Good job overall, Gil!
It’s harder to have a good bench, at least in terms of veterans, given the parity imposed by the more recent CBAs. You can compensate for that with a strong mL system, but that requires patience and opportunity.
In terms of comparing ERA and OPS over the years, you need to look at the league averages year by year for context.
Sp, “by choice AND necessity?”
Its an interesting analysis. You can’t really argue that the sample sizes are too small because A) he isn’t making great generalizations with his analysis and B) the roll of bench/bullpen players is normally less than that of every day players, creating an assessment thats fairer.
I kinda appreciate him breaking it down into ranges. I think his argument that the Yanks haven’t had a strong bullpen and bench in the same years is pretty interesting and also seems accurate from my no-nothing-fan perspective. It could also make a really interesting case for what players we should’ve pursued this off season given that 2009 seems to be the one year where both areas were strengths.
This is definitely a good idea for a post.
But, I don’t understand. You counted 1996 bullpen with the total number 4 as strong, but not the subsequent years with 4.
You count 1999 as having a good bench with a total number of 2.
Also, in 2001 and 2003 the Yankees made it to the WS, though they didn’t win. And 2004 was, well, they were one win away from getting to the WS.
It’s the 2005, 2006 an 2007 teams that mostly leave people scratching their heads.
And I think those years the starting pitching was suspect, wasn’t it?
Rich,
“In terms of comparing ERA and OPS over the years, you need to look at the league averages year by year for context.”
Turns it into a much bigger “project,” it seems, not what I’D want to do just for a guest column.
Repost
I got free tickets to the Yankees/Rays game on my birthday and they’re supposedly right behind the Yankees dugout which is what I asked for. A friend I used to work with has some legit hookup at the Trop and I just got word this morning that he came through. Going to find him sometime this week to ask for details but I trust him. Ill be there with my birthday sign and my new Cano shirt (24 for my 24th) and ill be sure to send some love to Maddon from MTU
TY-
Thanks. Just be sure to give him the usual salute to go with all that love.
Don’t forget to bring him some cheese to go with his whine.
Rich in NJ is right though.
It is harder to have a good bench. The fact that more teams contend for playoff spots longer into the season, that in many divisions the division title is up for grabs, makes fewer really good bench players available. Same can be said for relief pitchers, as well.
And a team is pretty much confined to choosing from what’s available, which varies from year to year.
tyanksfans36 -
That’s a GREAT birthday present!!!!
when only Robbie and Granderson are hitting, the best bench in the world isn’t going to help
tyanksfan36 January 17th, 2011 at 9:35 am
Ill be there with my birthday sign and my new Cano shirt (24 for my 24th)
***************************
AWESOME birthday present.
I feel like the biggest reason for the “WS drought” in the 2000s was related to starting pitching and the fact that its just really tough to win the WS.
BTW, I officially hate anyone who has the day off today.
Haha MTU. I’m making a sign that says its my birthday. Maybe ill make a second asking Maddon if he wants some cheese with his whine. Good idea
don’t worry Erin, I am at work…did you see the Robbie post from the weekend?
I used to go skiing every year on this day…..then I got a job
Doreen – you’re points are obviously well reasoned but I think the argument being made by the guest poster is much more simplistic. Like other people are saying, including any more statistical analysis requires a lot more work for a guest spot and he isn’t trying to make any bold statements about winning or losing a series/playoff series/season based on the pen or the bench.
Its the simplicity of the data he’s showing combined with the modest argument that makes it an interesting post. A lot of the trouble with commenters on Lohud is that they draw really grand conclusions from scarce facts. This guy is displaying some very, very basic statistics and his one conclusion is just as basic: the Yankees haven’t had a great bench and bullpen in the same year outside of maybe the 2009 season.
Not a lot of clubs can say they have had a great combo of both either, for obvious reasons (bullpen arms can be streaky, bench players the same, both with lack of playing time being a factor).
I think had he tried to draw any other conclusions from this data, it’d be easy to tear apart. The beauty in this is in the basic.
The overall merit of this column is undermined by its simplicity. I’m not entirely sure that OPS and ERA are particularly good comparative statistics from one time period to another (baseball in 1996 was substantially different than it is now).
The bigger problem, though, is that it’s unclear why having a good bench would really matter in the playoffs (particularly in the AL). Generally, your success in the playoffs is determined by people who actually play. And that, in the playoff context, is overwhelmingly the starters.
blake
That’s true, and to some degree, luck.
They easily could have won in 2001, 2003, and 2004, but the bounces went the other way, and Torre made some really strange moves, especially in 2004.
Erica’s dilemma of the morning-
Should I buy my annual $100 Superbowl Box?
(last year I was 3 yards from winning $5,000 at the end of the game. I am not sure I can go thru that stress again)
I love having today off from work – I can enjoy my Bears victory and start getting very nervous about the Packer game, lol
Of course, if they don’t win, maybe I’ll have better luck in my office’s Super Bowl pool – I once won $300.00
Erin. I love watching Robbie on the field. The guy eats sunflower seeds like a madman. I picked the Cano shirt for my bday because he wears 24 and ill be 24. Also, its Cano and he is probably the only one I don’t have a shirt for which is sad. Hopefully it brings the yankees as good luck as my Swisher shirt has always been.
I share your sentiment for people who work today. I was originally supposed to have it off and then someone quit so I have to go in to cover for them.
Daniel Toronto – lol, and here I was arguing the simplicity is the STRENGTH of the argument
Rich,
Yea,
They really should have won in 01 despite all time great efforts from Schilling and Johnson and would have if it had not been for a blip on Rivera’s great resume.
2003- they ran into a buzz saw with the Marlins young pitching.
2004- dont want to talk about it.
Its just tough to win 3 rounds of playoff games against good teams.
Baseball isn’t particularly simple, though, which is kind of a problem.
For example, did anyone who pitched 1 inning or have 1 at bat qualify for this analysis? Maybe there were just more bullpen/bench people in some years (which might make it more likely that there were people with low ERAs and high OPSs).
Another issue is that it counts everyone equally. For instance, a pitcher who pitched 5 innings with a 1.00 ERA would be the same as one who pitched 50 innings with a 7.00 ERA.
This problem could have been solved by taking the 4 bench players who got the most at bats and the 7 relievers who pitched the most innings.
That wouldn’t have required more effort.
Overall, the first two guest posts this year have been lazy and hastily thrown together.
upstate kate January 17th, 2011 at 9:47 am
don?t worry Erin, I am at work?did you see the Robbie post from the weekend?
***********************
kate, I did spot that this morning. “Robinson Cano’s World” may be the greatest title for a post ever. And I was very excited on Saturday because Jack Curry’s preview got posted on the YES website. Loved Robbie’s sunglasses.
I don’t think it’s fair to compare this post to the first one.
A well written post and interesting generally but it just reinforces my opinion that statistical analysis of this ilk is sucking the life and art out of the greatest game in the world.
There is great value to statistics but like anything else, moderation is the key and one can overdo it to the detriment of the pure enjoyment of the game. Especially in light if the fact that there is an almost endless number of statistical scenarios that can be
analyzed.
Fair enough, Rich in NJ. This post doesn’t make me want to begin a (probably violent) crime spree. So it has that going for it.
Daniel – you’re absolutely right. The points you make are right on.. my only contribution to this was that essentially, as long as the guy isnt trying to say we won or lost a World Series based on his analysis, I’m ok with it.
Like yesterday’s post, for example, made a lot of statements without any, ya know, facts. This one presents a couple facts but doesn’t attempt to overestimate its value. I prefer the approach of the latter lol, thats all.
“A well written post and interesting generally but it just reinforces my opinion that statistical analysis of this ilk is sucking the life and art out of the greatest game in the world.”
Your opinion reinforces your opinion, not his post.
“There is great value to statistics but like anything else, moderation is the key and one can overdo it to the detriment of the pure enjoyment of the game.”
It can just as easily enhance one’s enjoyment of the game.
“Especially in light if the fact that there is an almost endless number of statistical scenarios that can be analyzed.”
And all of them can be ignored by merely by scrolling down.
yesterday’s post seemed more like a rant…today’s post required thought and research.
My question is how valuable is the bench, when your regulars aren’t hitting.
tyanks- here’s hoping your Cano shirt brings the team luck
That’s too bad you have to go into work today. Today would have been a great day to have off. One of the ladies I work with called in sick today, and I’m the lucky one who has to take on some of her work. I think it’s going to be one of those days. lol
Good morning all.
I thought it was a good guest post, and one must recognize the limited posting allowed to make, what I believe are valid points.
Perhaps getting our BP in good order, and stronger bench, will bode well for the 2011 season.
Yes, we still have some missing pieces, but, I feel strongly Cashman will fill those holes, as the right opportunities present themselves.
Upstate Kate, you’ve pretty much put 2010 into perspective, at least where the bench is concerned.
Erin
I feel today is going to be one of those days as well. C’est la Vie. But the good news about the tickets will help me make it through.
So much for “Title Town”.
MTU -
Have you heard from our friend in Syracuse? He had his final exam yesterday, sure hope all went well.
why would an below 5.00 be counted with the same value as an era below 3.00 ?
clearly a 4.91 era would be bad and a 2.91 would be good?
so why count them both as good?
sorry , this chart needs work.
Rich,
“Your opinion reinforces your opinion, not his post.”
In simplicity, there is often genius to be found.
I am confused by the general resistance to advanced statistical analysis (please don’t confuse this post with advanced statistical analysis). If it doesn’t interest you, that’s fine. But the general animosity towards it makes no sense.
Moreover, it reminds me of the episode of Seinfeld where Jerry is trying to convince Elaine to use a “better” and “electronic” toothbrush, which she refuses to use even after he buys one for her.
“I have a better way for you to understand baseball and how worthwhile players are. Are you interested?”
“No. And you’re ruining baseball. And Brett Gardner needs to hit more homeruns.”
On a more serious note, I think that “traditionalist” viewpoints are pretty problematic in more important areas of society. For instance, I am a Master’s student in Criminology and can tell you that, without a shadow of doubt, that sentencing criminals to serious offences (namely jail) has no deterrent value and may actually serve to intensify criminal behaviour. For whatever reasons, most Canadian judges cite deterrence as a purpose for punishment. Why? Because they “know” it works. Even when it doesn’t.
Just like people who “know” Jack Morris was a Hall of Fame player, even when every form of statistical analysis points to the contrary.
Daniel Toronto January 17th, 2011 at 9:48 am
++++++++++++++
I kind of agree with DT that the analysis may be too simple.
To me, there is a trade-off between having a line-up of everyday stars and having a good bench. A team like Tampa–which rotates players through the various positions–can have a great bench because FAs and veterans will want to play there to get playing time, and because they will get enough ABs to stay fresh and motivated. When the Yankees had a weak LF and 3B, they could have Sierra, Strawberry, Hayes and even Fielder on their bench. With a more set line-up of stars, players like Damon, Vlad, and Manny won’t want to come here because there is no playing time.
I also don’t believe there is any correlation between having a good bullpen and a good bench. I think that is more about how the manager manages the pen. In the late 90s, Torre’s management team seemed to do a good job or managing workloads. After 2001, Torre seemed to mis-manage the pen by running arms out there without regard to keeping them healthy.
At the end of the day, I think Girardi will have a good to great bullpen this year thanks to the arms he is starting with as well as the young arms in the pipeline…but I suspect that a strong bench will have to bebuilt with mid-season trades to acquire players that otherwise would not come her.
That has been the pattern, and we can only hope Cashman does a good job at picking the right vets.
Shame Spencer -
Your point is well-taken.
I don’t know if I just have a sluggish brain in the morning or what, but I didn’t really know how to interpret the charts.
I guess, basically, I don’t consider years where the Yankees got to the WS as failing years, and 2004 is just one huge nightmare. 2005, 2006 and 2007 loom large to me because they got to the playoffs and were overwhelming favorites and failed. 2008 is no problem for me, because it was what it was and is easily a year where so much went wrong that if they HAD made it to the playoffs it would have been a great victory in and of itself.
But I do think the premise of the post was a good one.
The criticism of shortcomings of today’s guest columnist is unwarranted and unnecessary, imo.
A little perspective, people.
Rich in NJ – Your snide response aside, it is my opinion that statistical analysis when overdone and overused can dilute the artistic appreciation of the game and makes it less enjoyable for many baseball fans. That’s not just my opinion, I know many people who feel that way. I’m not against statistical analysis, I think stats are a part of the fabric of baseball and how success is justifiably qualified. Just excessive reliance upon it. Thanks for your opinion and the scroll tip.
If I had to pick one factor more relevant to having a good bench and bullpen, it would be the management style or philosophy. A manager that rides his stars will have a weak pen and bench (Torre in later years)…a manager that gets everyone to play will have a stronger bench and pen (Madden). Girardi is somewhere in between but probably closer to Madden than Torre.
Dionysius Thelxinoe January 17th, 2011 at 10:33 am
The criticism of shortcomings of today’s guest columnist is unwarranted and unnecessary, imo.
+++++++++++++
Hey–ever hear of feedback to improve something?
Al-
I haven’t. Not worried though. He can always bribe them to get out of there.
I wish people would not use the Hit*** word. It’s always inappropriate and offensive.
BIAW.
Not criticizing the poster; discussing the post.
It is offensive to use someone’s name? That’s hysterical. Remember “The Soup Nazi”? Is that offensive to you?
Buster_ESPN Sources: As of Monday a.m., it appears that the Yankees are the frontrunners for Andruw Jones’s services. 4th outfielder, balance vs. LHP.
BoJo, absolutely, criticism can be constructive.
But Daniel Toronto’s comments, in particular, are way beyond the pale.
It makes me wonder if Daniel even bothered to submit an entry for guest column and, if so, was it good enough to be selected.
It’s easy to sit back and sharpshoot someone else’s work … not so easy to do it themselves.
In the context in which it was presented, today’s column is ok, hence my comment that DT’s being unduly harsh.
I think a more interesting analysis could have been looking at how the pen and bench were managed going into the play-offs and the performance in the play-offs to see the correlation.
For example, prior to the play-offs, how much playing time did the bench players get? How much did the core play-off bench players get? How did they perform? Compare that to the play-off stats.
I suspect that the bench and pen that received playing time to maintain freshness would be more productive.
It also might be interesting to see that make-up of the pen and bench vis-s-vis young players versus veterans. Is there any correlation to performance? Is there a correlation to prior play-off experience?
Doreen, didn’t have you in mind with my comment, but Daniel Toronto and, to a much lesser degree, randy.
JMO.
For many teams a bullpen can be an inexact science but in all fairness to Joe Girardi, he’s managed his bullpens pretty well. No burnout.
This year he’ll be able to mix & match better with the addition of Feliciano and a dual role for Soriano.
Dionysius Thelxinoe January 17th, 2011 at 10:46 am
+++++++++++++
Curious…were you the guest writer?
I love how you’re criticizing me for criticizing someone else. Hypocrisy for the win.
Also, I didn’t submit an entry. I also haven’t produced a movie, but can determine if I like a movie or not.
Also, I’m a graduate student, on the verge of law school, and am only posting so much this morning because I’m on a train and bored. Generally, writing a guest post isn’t the first thing on my mind when I wake up.
I have my doubts about Andruw Jones. He sure doesn’t make much contact and not far removed from a .158 average. His attitude appears to be somewhat a question, or so I have read over the years. I hope they are not paying him to much to “Randy Winn” him if needed.
Also, please provide some evidence for your ridiculous statement that my criticisms are “beyond the pale.” I’m pretty sure that I made some rational, if not obvious, points.
Daniel it is offensive to use Hitler’s name in that context, you were not trying to be funny. Seinfelfd was a comedy show and it was not used in that manner.
BoJo, I’m not the guest writer, but for whatever it’s worth, I’ve been published on my field.
108 stitches January 17th, 2011 at 10:47 am
For many teams a bullpen can be an inexact science but in all fairness to Joe Girardi, he’s managed his bullpens pretty well. No burnout.
This year he’ll be able to mix & match better with the addition of Feliciano and a dual role for Soriano.
+++++++++++++++
Girardi does do a good job, whereas Torre–after 2001–seemed to burn out arms without regard to longer term results.
It will be interesting to see if Girardi uses his bench more this season to prep them for the play-offs. I could see Montero and Nunez and perhaps Jones getting a lot of playing time, and having good results in play-offs as a result.
This analysis alos leads to an interesting thought/question….
Should the in-season/early season bench be designed with their role in play-offs in mind? (I don’t think so, as 7/31 trades might be the best place to build your play-off bench. Butthere is something to be said for having your bench players getting a lot of playing time in August and September.)
Dionysius Thelxinoe January 17th, 2011 at 10:52 am
BoJo, I’m not the guest writer, but for whatever it’s worth, I’ve been published on my field.
+++++++++++++++
Do you have to cut the grass in that field?
I’d be happy about getting Jones. He’s not what he used to be but at least he will help vs lefties and he’s still a reasonably good fielder. I wouldn’t put him in CF but he’s fine in RF and LF. He will fill the role that we got Winn/Thames for last year. He’s a better fielder than Thames and a better hitter than Winn.
“Kyle Farnsworth gave up 11 HR in 44.1 IP for the Yankees in 2008; he’s given up 11 HRs in 118 IP since leaving New York”
Stats like this always make me wonder how much being a Yankee plays with some guys heads?
I actually WAS trying to be funny. I was pointing out the absurdity of someone’s attempt to censor this message board.
Also, so sorry, I wasn’t aware that you were able to detect my intentions with such incredible accuracy.
Daniel,
I don’t want to take you to task, but consider Hitler and his government killed many millions of people. I know people who had relatives killed in death camps. Use another descriptor, please.
If Jones is cut during the season, who would be the RH OF bats available at trading deadline?
That to me is the most important question about that spot on the roster.
Daniel, I’m not the least bit interested in getting into a pointless debate with you.
Nor am I interested in comparing irrelevant academic credentials with you. I’ve already been to where you’re trying to go, sonny.
Youhavee the right to criticize the column. Just as I have the right to respond to YOUR post.
Your criticism was unduly harsh. Take it for whatever it’s worth.
Wow the blog is a little touchy this morning, no? I don’t think Daniel said anything out of line….
Daniel Toronto January 17th, 2011 at 10:55 am
I actually WAS trying to be funny. I was pointing out the absurdity of someone’s attempt to censor this message board.
Also, so sorry, I wasn’t aware that you were able to detect my intentions with such incredible accuracy.
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Why don’t you two take this BS to another board and discuss it “intelligently”.
Daniel – you are not Larry David. It wasn’t funny and touches a very raw nerve with some people. I am just suggesting that you respect that. No one is trying to censor anyone, this is a lively sports blog and opinionated smack talk is a part of it. I am the recipient of some and it’s perfectly fine if you don’t cross the line which you did.
No, austinmac. The politically correctedness with which society attempts to get by with is just astounding to me. Who gets offended by these types of things?
The fact that you know people who died in death camps is undeniably tragic (for them), but totally beside the point I’m making.
Also, just because someone is offended by something doesn’t make it truly offensive.
For 7/31 pick-ups for theOF bench role, I could envision Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Quentin, Carlos Beltran, Vernon Wells, Cody Ross, and maybe even (my favorite) Angel Pagan (for the right prospects).
Anytime NY Beats Boston, which is who the Patriots are and don’t forget that!, it’s a GOOD thing.
We got their number in football again with Giants and Jets pulling down their pants while the Country watched! HaHaHa…
Pat,
“Stats like this always make me wonder how much being a Yankee plays with some guys heads?”
I’m a firm believer in the Ed Whitson Syndrome.
NY is a tough place to play, and it’s definitely not for everyone. Which is why I don’t think it’s a good idea to being even talented guys like Josh Hamilton, Greinke, and JustinD to the Bronx. Jmo.
I doubt the Yankees are going to pick up any $9 mil (or in Wells’ case. $70 mil) bench players.
Daniel,
As a board certified trial lawyer for many years, I disagree. Offending people for your pleasure is offensive by definition. If you intend to make a career dealing with people and their problems as a lawyer, sensitivity and empathy are good tools. Your tool box seems quite empty.
Why in the world would Carlos Beltran be a bench player? If healthy, he is a very good player who could start for most teams.
and then there are the guys like Swish who love the bright lights
GB–When I hit enter, I was thinking the same about Wells…he is overkill, but I think the others are on 1 year deals or are cheap enough to acquire. Beltran especially could be interesting…
He needs rest because of his knees, but can bring a big bat from both sides…and defensively is still very good in corners.
Daniel I am not going to further interrupt the baseball conversation by continuing this. You are young and wrong and hopefully someday you will realize the error of your ways. We’re done.
Daniel Toronto January 17th, 2011 at 11:06 am
Why in the world would Carlos Beltran be a bench player? If healthy, he is a very good player who could start for most teams.
+++++++++
His knees have made him old fast
austinmac,
Stop talking about my tools.
Also, if you’re insinuating that I’m “offending people for pleasure”… Then you’re wrong. How would I be attempting to offend someone if I don’t find what I said to be offensive?
I also have plenty of empathy (for people who deserve it). I just don’t empathize with people who get unnecessarily worked up over silly things.
austinmac January 17th, 2011 at 11:05 am
Daniel,
As a board certified trial lawyer for many years, I disagree. Offending people for your pleasure is offensive by definition. If you intend to make a career dealing with people and their problems as a lawyer, sensitivity and empathy are good tools. Your tool box seems quite empty.
++++++++++++++
Actually very good advice…but you know what they say about advice…
Daniel STFU and stop the H—– references, OK?
In support of the post:
Gil noted that the years the Yankees were most successful, they had a strong bench and pen. He isn’t saying the only reason some of the following teams weren’t successful was due to the lack of a good bench/BP. And to be fair, posters are limited to a short post, so there is a limit of how much detail you can get into.
BoJo says:
January 17, 2011 at 11:01 am
For 7/31 pick-ups for theOF bench role, I could envision Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Quentin, Carlos Beltran, Vernon Wells, Cody Ross, and maybe even (my favorite) Angel Pagan (for the right prospects).
————
Good list, except for Beltran. Unless he makes a dramatic comeback, even beyond his career averages (highly unlikely, no?), I doubt anyone wants that monstrous contract even for half a season. And I doubt the Mets will eat it, since they haven’t even been willing to eat Castillo’s contract.
BTW, I like Angel Pagan a lot also, but I think Mets are not likely to let him go without getting ML talent in return, given his contract value.
I love how you just said that I’m “wrong” as if it’s some sort of scientific fact.
And the ERROR OF MY WAYS? I hope it hurts when you fall off your (very) high horse.
BoJo January 17th, 2011 at 11:07 am
GB–When I hit enter, I was thinking the same about Wells…he is overkill, but I think the others are on 1 year deals or are cheap enough to acquire. Beltran especially could be interesting…
He needs rest because of his knees, but can bring a big bat from both sides…and defensively is still very good in corners.
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Except all of those players are $15-$18 mil players except for Quentin at $10 mil and are regulars. Unless the Yankees can convince baseball to allow them to use a rover in the outfield, they won’t replace the 3 main outfielders the NYYs already have.
To my thinking, picking up Beltran (and the Mets will be trying to move him for prospects at some point) reminds me of having Sierra or Strawberry on the bench. Older players who no longer can play everyday, but bring power and play-off experience. And Beltran still can contribute in a reduced role.
I think that will be my mid-season focus…to urge that pick-up….
I’m sure this guy from Israel who innocently posts an interesting piece is so glad he invoked the name of the biggest criminal who ever walked the face of the earth, even if it’s your idea of a joke…
Why do people even argue with the trolls?
GreenBeret7 says:
January 17, 2011 at 11:04 am
I doubt the Yankees are going to pick up any $9 mil (or in Wells’ case. $70 mil) bench players.
——-
So obviously true!
I love how you just said that I’m “wrong” as if it’s some sort of scientific fact.
==================================================
Here is evidence of the cold, hard, clinical side of a sabremetrician’s mindset…
Also, just because someone is offended by something doesn’t make it truly offensive.
=================================================
In this case it was…
Chad/Sam, please put up another subject. hopefully this idiot will either get lost or stopped at the Canadian border and arrested for being a jackass.
“and then there are the guys like Swish who love the bright lights”
Easier to find a comfort zone first when all eyes in the room aren’t on you or you are too oblivious to notice them.
GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2011 at 11:12 am
BoJo January 17th, 2011 at 11:07 am
GB–When I hit enter, I was thinking the same about Wells…he is overkill, but I think the others are on 1 year deals or are cheap enough to acquire. Beltran especially could be interesting…
He needs rest because of his knees, but can bring a big bat from both sides…and defensively is still very good in corners.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Except all of those players are $15-$18 mil players except for Quentin at $10 mil and are regulars. Unless the Yankees can convince baseball to allow them to use a rover in the outfield, they won’t replace the 3 main outfielders the NYYs already have.
+++++++++++++++
Not as mid-season pick-ups
Quentin–Prob $6M/2 = $3M (plus control for 2 years)
Ordonez–$10M /2 = $5M
Beltran–$18.5M /2 = $9.25
Ross–Prob about $5M/2 = $2.5M
Pagan–Prob $2M/2 = $1M (plus control for 2 years)
Quentin, Beltran, and Ordonez have knee problems so they can’t play everyday.
There are a lot of people on here that need to grow a little thicker skin, this is the internet….
And just because you are older than someone doesn’t mean you are right. I’m not endorsing what Daniel said but it really obviously wasn’t meant to be offensive. You’ve all told him that what he said was a little lacking in taste, move on
BoJo says:
January 17, 2011 at 10:53 am
Dionysius Thelxinoe January 17th, 2011 at 10:52 am
BoJo, I’m not the guest writer, but for whatever it’s worth, I’ve been published on my field.
+++++++++++++++
Do you have to cut the grass in that field?
————–
I do not.
But sadly, it would not surprise me to learn that I could be better paid in that field!
Patrick January 17th, 2011 at 11:20 am
There are a lot of people on here that need to grow a little thicker skin,
=============================================
Oh please son…
The Yankees certainly will have budget room to pick up Beltran or any of the above at July 31 trading deadline…
Of course, the budget issue could change depending what happens in rotation.
Oh please son…
—
Please what?
Patrick January 17th, 2011 at 11:23 am
Oh please son…
—
Please what?
++++++++++++++
Please please me oh yeah, like I please you….(The Beatles!)
GB
I put up another post on my blog about Venditte. I like him.
BoJo, yes the Yankees will have the budget room, but will they WANT to, especially if there’s other less expensive but similar options available? (I think there will be).
We’ll see, I guess.
Bojo, The Mets have no reason to move Pagan and none of those players are worth that kind of money as part timers. If there were to be catastrophic injuries in the outfield, perhaps, but, not as a part time outfielder and pinch hitter. Ross is ok, but, he’s the right price for an offensively challenged team like San Francisco.
Yankee major league scouts are the best judges of whether Andruw Jones is a good get – or not.
Obviously Scott Boras will talk about his client’s upside but that’s expected.
“Dionysius Thelxinoe January 17th, 2011 at 10:46 am
Doreen, didn’t have you in mind with my comment, but Daniel Toronto and, to a much lesser degree, randy.
JMO.”
“Dionysius Thelxinoe”
Dionysius Thelxinoe-
i don’t know . i kind of thin it’s disrespectful to an adult to not give him the respect to critique his work. do you think he’s child that needs to be encouraged by saying everything’s good. i think Gil had an original idea that was good , but the chart was messy and not really to the point as much as it could have been. an era close to 5.00 shouldn’t be counted as good. that’s just being inaccurate.
that said, the idea of looking at the neck and bullpen strength each year is a good one because if you have both the yankees would likely be in good shape. i’m juts saying he needed a better way to see what a good year was than by the way he did it.
i’ve never seen an art/design class. writing class, or an athletic team or class that didn’t critique the participants.
i think learning to take the criticism is a big part of the competition and learning experience. people that just try to be nice and politely say “oh , that’s great.”when they know it isn’t or they don’t even look closely to see what the work is about aren’t helping anyone.
as i said , that’s actually the biggest disrespect.
that said i think gill did a decent job because he had a good original baseball thought with his basic idea of comparing bullpen and bench strength throughout a specific time period
last week, i was wondering myself on the blog what happened the days when guys like strawberry. sierra, and raines were on the bench.
so i give a C+ for for gill but it could easily be a b+ with better stat criteria.
Thanks for the heads up, TY. I enjoyed watching Venditte because of the confusion he causes other teams, but, I can’t see any team where he really fits, unless it’s as a drawing card. His stuff isn’t as good as Ortiz’ is. I might be wrong, (not unusual) but, other than the cost of admission, it’s just not there.
Hey guys–I was starting a list of players that might be available at trading time to fill the RH OFer role. If you disagree, fine…but how about posting some names you think might be available that Cashman should pursue?
GB–I agree that Pagan would be tough to get (although I like him)..However, he is 29 and won’t be around by the time the Mets contend again, so it is not like he is untouchable.
And as part timers, Sierra, Straw, and Fielder were well paid back in the day. I think all of the contracts above are okay if they could be the deciding factor…Plus, we don’t know how much of contract would be eaten for prospects.
So, I have to discount your comment a little….
I’m sure the scouts have their eyes on some low risk high reward players like they got at the trade deadline the last few years. Who would have thought Kerry Wood would have stayed healthy for the rest of the season and became the stabilizer in the bullpen like he did. I think they’ll go after some not so great guys at the tail end of a contract and hope for the best.
the idea of looking at the bench and bullpen strength each year is a good one because if you have both the yankees would likely be in good shape. ( spell check has a mind of it’s own)
I have to say, that is a funny sight, Ryan’s “dash” for the end zone.
Randy, fair comments.
I think the Yankees will be announcing the Andruw Jones signing any day now. He’s affordable, right-handed with pop and a good defensive outfielder that can play multiple positions.
I enjoyed reading this post. Nice work.
I think calling people lazy isn’t really constructive criticism, but I don’t expect anything different from an internet message board.
BoJo January 17th, 2011 at 11:33 am
Hey guys–I was starting a list of players that might be available at trading time to fill the RH OFer role. If you disagree, fine…but how about posting some names you think might be available that Cashman should pursue?
———————————————————————————————————————-
Two years ago, when Toronto put him up for grabs, I was hoping that the Yanks would go after Alex Rios. Other than that, I’d like to see someone like Omar Infante. I’ve seen enough of the Hairstons to think they’d be a last resort type. It really is the Jones/Damon/Corey Patterson types that will be out there.
Well GB there isn’t much special about Venditte except for his switch pitching but something has to be said that he ranked in the top 4 categories for all relievers in the Florida State League.
BoJo, took a quick glance at the list of 2012 FAs to look for midseason candidates. Looks like slim pickins for 4th outfielders.
2012 FA list is on mlb trade rumors.
TY, he’s an interesting character to watch. Maybe he comes to ST, just to see how some ML players react to him. Like I said, I enjoyed watching the confusion he caused, just not sure whether he’d have the same affect with NL players. I hope he gets a crack at it, though.
Does Venditte have the same velocity, arm angle, pitches, and break from both sides?
GB–
I agree about Rios. I thought at the time that Cashman should offer to eat his contract as part of a deal for Halladay.
I still am thinking Beltran will be the guy at this point. Mets will definitely want to move him to clear budget room. They apparently were in talks with Boston before Crawford signed.
Dionysius Thelxinoe January 17th, 2011 at 11:55 am
Does Venditte have the same velocity, arm angle, pitches, and break from both sides?
++++++++++++++++
No….not at all
Anybody else’s mobile site down….?
No, Venditte only hits about 84 MPH from the left side and about 90-91 MPH from the right side. Better change-up from the left, though, Curve is about the same.
Lol reading over the comment front to back I thought someone had gone on a Neo-Nazi rant somewhere. But then I finally get to the dreaded hateful comment and laughed.
Bit ridiculous much?
While it could obviously have been done with a slightly better analogy it was pretty clear to me that he was calling someone overly authoritarian (as the ‘regulars’ sometimes tend to be on this site) as opposed to the perpetrator of mass-genocide and horrific war crimes….
I believe Hitler’s name is used as a similar analogy enough in popular culture these days to not warrant this chap 15 minutes of verbal belittling and talking down too as he seems to have taken (another common theme on this site).
To the Neo-Nazi: Next time try “Saddam.” More acurate anyways and people dont get all upset about him so much for some reason.
Venditte from the left side is almost a Mike Myers type, side arm slinger. More conventional from the right.
“But with the Soriano signing providing just the latest example that Cashman isn’t fully in change, I don’t understand how people can blame him for everything that goes wrong.”
am i the only one that sees the humor in this from late last night?
i guess the logic is that because he’s not in full charge, he’s off the hook for 2011.
good one.
If you look on my blog(click on my name) in the sidebar there are videos, one is of Venditte throwing warmups. Just one pitch from the right and 2 from the left. You can’t really tell velocity of course but you can see arm angle.
As for the post, nice topic. You never can have too much bullpen and bench depth. I am sure a sabermetrics maestro could tell you the preferred statistics to use, but as I am not one I think you definitely got the point across.
Despite his league-leading 45 saves and 1.73 ERA, Soriano was hated by almost everyone in Tampa Bay last year. His periodic hissy-fits over being brought into games in non-save situations, or being asked to pitch more than one inning wore thin on Rays manager Joe Maddon.
The final straw was the last game of the season – Game 5 of the ALDS versus Texas – when Maddon asked Soriano to pitch the ninth inning with the Rays trailing, 3-1. After throwing a tantrum in the bullpen in front of all his fellow relievers, Soriano trudged into the game and promptly gave up a single to Nelson Cruz and a game-breaking homer to Ian Kinsler.
–
From replacement level
http://www.rlyw.net/index.php/.....t_his_pric
randy l. January 17th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
“But with the Soriano signing providing just the latest example that Cashman isn’t fully in change, I don’t understand how people can blame him for everything that goes wrong.”
am i the only one that sees the humor in this from late last night?
i guess the logic is that because he’s not in full charge, he’s off the hook for 2011.
good one.
———————————————————————–
I beleive Cashmoney is on the hook to come up with a contender team every year and to try and make it better as much as he can through the season.
But come on lets be real, besides the SP job (which we all know will be filled sometime) it’s really up to the player and coahes to win. Cashmoney can only build a championship calliber team (as I beleive he has in 2011 even without the 4th and 5th starters…2009 anyone) but it’s up to the guys on the field every day to make it work.
Moral of the story is, yes if Cash doesnt do something about that 4th/5th starter this year I will be grumpy but I honetly beleive starting Opening Day the dudes on the bases are on the line for 2011.
” You never can have too much bullpen and bench depth.”
peter r-
i can’t agree with you.
say boston makes their fenway bench really deep, pedroia will never be able to get out of it .
He won’t be the big prima donna in the Yankee pen….Mo will manage him. I’m not worried.
randy l. January 17th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
++++++++
LOL!
randy l. January 17th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
” You never can have too much bullpen and bench depth.”
peter r-
i can’t agree with you.
say boston makes their fenway bench really deep, pedroia will never be able to get out of it
———————————————————————————————————————-
The only ML player that travels with a booster seat for the dugout.
Peter R January 17th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
+++++++++++++++
Well said. It has been the manager and players who either won or lost in the past 10 years. Cash can only give the players to get to play-offs…once there, it is a cr*p shoot.
When the greatest ever is in the same bullpen as you then you act as he does…..the Yankee veterans wont tolerate stuff like that.
“it’s really up to the player and coaches to win”
everyone has to do their part. the gm has a job to do like everyone else. i’m on record that a lot of people could do that job, but it is part of a chain where all the links have to do their job.
if cashman only has two good starters, he’s clearly not doing his job. if rothschild( who cashman hired) gets burnett back to form and nova does well than cashman will likely have done his job.
no gm gets 5 good starters . talent is too diluted. but a team like the yankees should have 3 good starters ,an average one , and a fifth starter that can stay below 5.25era ( hopefully that’s a young guy learning on the job).
Looks like My post of an hour ago was right – Jones signing appears imminent.
Jonathan Mayo’s Top 10 catching prospects. 3 Yankees.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb
Wow!!! You’re really going out on a limb in deciding that it’s Jones, huh? Only been stated by 10 writers a day for the last week. Take a girl scout cookie out of the jar for being so heads up.
Wow WCYF you should become a professional psychic, we have the next Miss Cleo on our hands folks! It’s not like Heyman and Olney have been reporting for days that the Yanks are going hard after Jones and are the frontrunners. Oh wait, yes they have been reporting exactly that for weeks now
“The only ML player that travels with a booster seat for the dugout.”
rumor has it that he has a personally autographed peter gammons model.
Can anyone elaborate on Andruw Jones contract amount for the last 2 years. baseball-reference says it was 500k the last 2 years with a note $3.2M paid by Los Angeles Dodgers (released).
randy l. January 17th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
“The only ML player that travels with a booster seat for the dugout.”
rumor has it that he has a personally autographed peter gammons model
———————————————————————————————————————-
He must have traded in his Ken Rosenthal “Laser Show” model.
I almost wish the Rays or somebody would swoop in and steal Jones…..I like the backup plan better.
Pretty awesome to have 3 of the top 10 catchers in baseball.
GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2011 at 12:29 pm
Wow!!! You’re really going out on a limb in deciding that it’s Jones, huh? Only been stated by 10 writers a day for the last week. Take a girl scout cookie out of the jar for being so heads up.
++++++++++
“…a team like the yankees should have 3 good starters ,an average one , and a fifth starter that can stay below 5.25era ( hopefully that’s a young guy learning on the job).”
i disagree with my previous post.
i should have said “…a team like the yankees should have one ace, two good starters, an average one, and a fifth starter that can stay below 5.25era ( hopefully that’s a young guy learning on the job)” .
Can anyone elaborate on Andruw Jones contract amount for the last 2 years. baseball-reference says it was 500k the last 2 years with a note $3.2M paid by Los Angeles Dodgers (released).
–
The dodgers signed him to a stupid contract and then got Jones to agree to defer payments to get out of it.
Smile. I love this blog!
Looks like My post of an hour ago was right – Jones signing appears imminent.
******
Uncle Jon would be so proud that you got to the bottom of this one Sherlock.
8 HRs in 86 ABs vs. LHP last yr for Andruw Jones. Of the candidates still out there, it’s hard to argue against Jones at this point.
Marcus Thames had a great season (two stirring walk-off hits), but the reality is he’s strictly DH material.
“He must have traded in his Ken Rosenthal “Laser Show” model.”
not many people know it , but the time manny smacked youkillis they were fighting over who was going to get that laser show model.
Sorry Patrick – I discount what Heyman reports. I’ve been brainwashed successfully.
WCYF referring to Heyman’s tweets as “my posts”, no wonder he defends himself so vigorously
Finalizing Sorianos contract appears imminent.
I’m gonna say once he passes his physical they will announce it.
randy l. January 17th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
“He must have traded in his Ken Rosenthal “Laser Show” model.”
not many people know it , but the time manny smacked youkillis they were fighting over who was going to get that laser show model.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Hope the winner checked to make sure that Pedroia hadn’t “slud” down in the seat before sitting down.
(God, I loved listening to Ol’ Diz announce ball games)
I hear that Pettitte hasn’t made up his mind yet.
I sense this will continue to be the case.
West Coast made sure to take his autograph book to the Golden Globes Awards Show. With all of those beauties around, the only autograph he was after was Jon Heyman’s.
WCYF,
Andruw Jones’ agent is Scott Boras, this means Heyman probably has a good idea of who Jones is talking to and where he is signing
Could you “announce your predictions” for last Saturday’s Powerball drawing?
I like the Soriano and Jones additions. Were making progress.
The only autograph I want is yours GB.
Jones isn’t my favorite of the Manny/Vlad/Jones/Damon contingent, but easily the most realistic and certainly the most imminent. Pretty good. Now just get Pettitte back and announce Chamberlain to the rotation. Or Chamberlain to the rotation with Nova backing him. Then lets start camp so I can follow Montero every day.
“The only autograph I want is yours GB.”
make sure you get one where he spells it right.
they’re more valuable that way.
How about getting rid of in a package for a starter. I’ll give Uncle Jon a call and see what he thinks.
make sure you get one where he spells it right.
they’re more valuable that way.
—
Why, because they’re so rare?
Sic – Joba
I read an interesting article somewhere (recently) that compared Nova to a young Wang, and see a lot of potential for him if he uses his sinker more. I agree with the analysis.
Here is the article:
http://www.theyankeeu.com/2011.....ling-24352
Heyman says no autograph is imminent.
I see no reason to think Andy is coming back. I think he just can’t bring himself yet to say ” no” officially because with him it means there’s no going back. He’s not going to pull a Clemens or a Favre – when he’s done, he’s done. It’s just hard for him to actually say he’s retiring because this is all he’s known for much of his life. He’s told the Yankees to act as if he’s not retiring, so hopefully that’s what they’re doing.
‘Rich in NJ – Your snide response aside,’
It’s merely a declarative sentence.
“it is my opinion that statistical analysis when overdone and overused can dilute the artistic appreciation of the game and makes it less enjoyable for many baseball fans. That’s not just my opinion,”
How? Do people coming to your house and put a device on you eyes in order to keep them open while you are forced to watch statistical analyses? /CO
“I know many people who feel that way.”
Does the same thing happen to them?
“I’m not against statistical analysis,”
Clearly, you are…
“I think stats are a part of the fabric of baseball and how success is justifiably qualified. Just excessive reliance upon it. Thanks for your opinion and the scroll tip.”
Again, you have the ability to filter out any information you choose (assuming my foregoing scenario hasn’t happened). This is, after all, America.
“Why, because they’re so rare?”
what’s really rare is when gb7 signs an autograph for a smartass instead of showing him his blunderbuss collection
got to get over it Andy isn’t coming back…never said he was & what he did say was go on without me ..
BoJo, once Noesi’s ready, Nova will be gone. I like Nova, but, I like Noesi more. Quite similar but, noesi is the better of the two with better stuff. Nova could fetch a pretty decent player by next year in a package trade.
Betsy and joeman–
If Joba is put in rotation, I can live very ahppily with Andy’s retirement. After all, when Mussina retired, the Yankees did okay without him.
Bojo, I’m not as high on Joba as you………I still want Andy back, but I’m not holding my breath.
GB7–
If Nova really can throw his sinker as well as Wang did, then he won’t be going anywhere.
Betsy–
Even if Joba only holds the fort at 500 until the next crop comes up, The Yankees will be fine. It is a team game, and pne player should not matter to a contender.
randy
I was in Farmington Sat. I was looking for your cousins but saw no one with overhauls and a JD hat sideways.
I suppose if I wore my Yankee hat they would have introduced themselves.
==> New thread
Bojo, I just don’t like this rotation at all. Beyond CC, everyone is a question mark, so I don’t even love that Nova’s going to be in the rotation. I’d rather another vet fill the spot.
BoJo January 17th, 2011 at 1:04 pm
GB7–
If Nova really can throw his sinker as well as Wang did, then he won’t be going anywhere.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Nova and Noesi are too much alike to pitch both of them back to back and neither are as good as those coming in behind them. One will go in a deal.
How is Hughes a question mark but, the one you constantly reference (Buchholz) isn’t? Both have had one good year and Buchholz had quite a few failures before that. The only question about Hughes is whether he wins 20 or 22 games this year.
As the author of this post, I wanted to respond to a number of questions about post
Because the post was supposed to limited in scope and be about 400 words – I didn’t really have the time or space to perform a more sophisticated analysis.
I wasn’t trying to say that a great bench and bullpen are what make teams world series winners. My intention was that it took a complete team to be able to win 4 times in 5 years. A great rotation, lineup, bench and bullpen.
I had assumed before writing the article (based on a less than perfect memory) that those shortcomings were mostly because of a shallow bench and bullpen. As I looked back at the data – I saw that I missed something (which I mentioned in the article) – there was a period of time from 2004 to 2008 where the main Yankee shortcomings were in the rotation.
While i broke down the statistics by year – my goal was more to show trends over a span of multiple years. The period from 1996-2000 was better (even though there were dips in places during the 1996-2000 seasons – or spikes in places from 2001-2010) than any period since.
I included the numbers of guys who either had a minimum of 100 ABS or 20 IP or who were semi-regular players at the end of the year (such as Shane Spencer in 1998).
I broke down players by who fell into different ranges and the totals for an “acceptable” range. I tried to show both the breakdown and totals so that each could be weighed . I did not want to draw too many conclusions since i do understand the data is far from perfect.
I do admit i had a hard time determining the exact cutoff point. What is acceptable is also a function of the role of the reliever. A 4.30 ERA is terrible for a closer but pretty good for a long reliever/spot starter. I chose the cutoff of 5.00 for ERA because that there MIGHT be places such a reliever could be serviceable – for example because of lefty/righty splits or early/late seasons splits.