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Cash to Andy: Don’t Brett Favre us

Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Jan 19, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Two interesting Andy Pettitte nuggets:

1. According to Joe Girardi, Pettitte – although still likely to retire – has been throwing at home in Texas, just in case he decides to pitch again this year. “He wants to be prepared, whatever his decision is,” Girardi told reporters. Hmmm.

2. Ostensibly in between bites of pancakes yesterday, Brian Cashman told a crowd in Connecticut that when he last spoke to Pettitte he asked the pitcher to be sure about his decision, whatever it ends up being. In other words, Cashman doesn’t want Pettitte to come back if he’s not fully invested in the idea of playing another year. “I told him don’t ‘Brett Favre’ us,” Cashman said, according to the Middletown Press. “You got to be all in and fully dedicated to play. Do I need him? I need him, but I don’t want him to play if his heart’s not in it.”

What does it all mean? My money is still on Pettitte staying retired. Then again if he’s staying in shape and throwing …

* That’s an AP shot of Pettitte.

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423 Responses to “Cash to Andy: Don’t Brett Favre us”

  1. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    didn’t he say this two days ago?

  2. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    ac1

    Believe it or not, it was only yesterday morning!

    LOL

  3. Nick in SF January 19th, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    I think it’s a non-issue; if Andy decides to come back, that means he’s committed.

  4. Abe Peterham January 19th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    By being favred he meant don’t wait till last minute to unretire, not , being” half committed” when on field I’m assuming

  5. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    I just don’t get what Cash was trying to do by making public the fact that the owners overruled him. Only negative can come from that- the perception that the Yankees FO is split and there is something of a rift. I like Cash a lot personally, but in this case he should have kept his mouth shut.

  6. Patrick January 19th, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    Betsy,

    Maybe so he can say “told ya so” if something goes wrong related to the signing.

    I don’t really have a problem with it. By laying it all out there he’s defusing the situation in my opinion.

  7. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 5:28 pm
    ++++++++++
    Agreed

  8. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    Patrick -

    I agree – it was already being talked/tweeted about. What purpose would it have served for Cashman to skirt the issue? Normally that makes things worse…

  9. Nick in SF January 19th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    In many circumstances, telling the truth is better than lying.

    Cashman most likely was telling the truth when he said he wouldn’t sign a player such as Soriano if it meant losing the first round draft pick.

    Then the Yankees signed Soriano.

    At that point, keeping his mouth shut wasn’t a viable option. Lying and saying that he wasn’t being forthcoming earlier was an option, but Cashman maintains more credibility by telling the truth now. He couldn’t ‘no comment’ the signing.

    So that’s probably what he was trying to do. He told the truth. Not ‘only negative’ can come from that.

  10. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    I really have a problem with Cashman’s CYA style. He wanted people to know certain players were not his call (Sheffield, many others). To me, he is not a team player.

  11. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    Um, Buster, the Yankees don’t have their #1 pick anymore ……..someone posted a tweet of his in the prior thread that the only way they would have gotten Pavano is a sign and trade? Do they even have those in MLB?

    In any case, I still despise him – I will never forgive Pavano for lying about the car accident. That said, he’s a very good pitcher, but I can’t blame the Yankees for not wanting to go 2 years. Once bitten twice shy – it didn’t work with Javy (though I doubt it was a NY thing; physically he was a wreck), so who’s to say it would have worked this timen around?

    Patrick, that’s something a 5 year old would do. All I know is that Cash just brought on a world of media attention and speculation. If I’m Hal, I’m not too happy that my GM just made public their private conversations. If I broadcast to all my co-workers that I just did something that I was forced to do by my boss , I don’t think I would be working there for very long.

  12. Yankee Trader January 19th, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    Jon Heyman said today on the MLB Network that his family has given Pettitte the OK to return- for what it’s worth.

    Trisha- The RAB’s spot on Soriano basically said that Soriano has developed an excellent cutter which he uses against lefties.

  13. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    I feel like being a trouble maker.

    So,

    If Andy comes back, isn’t he just one more huge question mark in this rotation? I mean, his elbow is always a concern, not to mention any little tweak, given his age, could be a prolonged rehab. Plus there’s that whole Clemens trial distraction.

    Why do we want Andy when we could have a young healthy prospect in the rotation? Could be Andy doesn’t really solve anything.

  14. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    Nick–

    IMO Cashman has leaked info to the press about a lot of signings that he disagreed with. I think it is a pattern.

  15. Joe from Long Island January 19th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    It’s not important for us to get it. It’s only important for Cash’s intended audience to get it. And we have no idea who that audience is, or what his intention is.

    Brian Cashman did not get this far in the Yankee food chain by being foolish. Not by a longshot.

  16. hardwired7 January 19th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    Call it a soft retirement – not the worst thing in the world.

    He’s so competitive that it seems unlikely the urge to play won’t come over him again. Plus, there are only so many bullets left.

  17. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    someone posted a tweet of his in the prior thread that the only way they would have gotten Pavano is a sign and trade? Do they even have those in MLB?

    Yes. Tampa acquired Soriano in a sign and trade.

  18. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    Bojo, the thing is, it’s like Cashman did a 180………do we really want the Yankees’ dirty laundry hanging out there? IMO, Cashman is not overly happy now and he’s got no issue with being honest because he knows he’ll get another job if he’s fired……….or if he’s not fired, he will likely walk away. He’s got nothing to lose by being ridiculously honest if he doesn’t care about the consequences.

  19. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    “Why do we want Andy when we could have a young healthy prospect in the rotation?”

    Doreen, you can’t be serious.

  20. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    Betsy, buy Cashman’s memoir when it comes out.

  21. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    Nick is on fire today (not to say he is not on fire usually)

  22. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    Although technically it was a tender and trade for Soriano, but anyways due to compensation sign and trades are often kicked around. They are not against the rules.

  23. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 5:37 pm
    +++++++++++++
    I think your hunch may be right…and I am not sure how I feel about that.

  24. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    WYH -

    Nah – I just want to make trouble! :)

  25. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    WYH

    And also try and keep the thread on topic and not rehash what was overcooked already in the previous thread.

    ;)

  26. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Doreen-

    I knew you had an agenda. ;)

  27. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Wave, that will make fairly interesting reading to be sure, lol

  28. Yankee Trader January 19th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    With regards to Pavano, Cashman should have just said-I was contacted by his agent about pitching for us, and told him that we might have some interest in a one year deal if you could put a guarantee in the contract that he wouldn’t pull an “Idle” on us!!!!!

  29. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 19th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    repost:

    Trader – I don’t know that RAB necessarily has any better insight than that stuff I read on lohud. That said, if they have anything to say about Soriano that lacks a glow, I don’t care to read it at all. The only food for thought I need on him is what I have witnessed with my own baby browns since he was with the Mariners.

    I just love the guy and what he brings to the table. I love that he has faced the vaunted AL East and handled them readily. I love that he has a personality pretty much like Mo’s.

    The guy can pitch.

    I’m full.

    *************

    Joe, one person’s champagne is another person’s cyanide. You are certainly entitled to follow Pete Abe. I just don’t know that the rest of us need to know what Pete Abe thinks, because if we wanted to know, we too would be following him.

    I care about what Chad, Sam, and Josh have to say. Render to Caesar. God doesn’t live here anymore.

  30. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Jerkface–

    Cashman could have gotten ahead of this whole controversy if he had worked a sign and trade with Nats for Soriano once he learned that the owners wanted him. He could have come out of this looking like a genius, instead of a pouty baby.

  31. Nick in SF January 19th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Garbage in, fire out!

    That works with vindaloo and burritos.

  32. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    Jerkface, thanks – I just usually only hear about that in reference to the NBA.

  33. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 19th, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    “Trisha- The RAB’s spot on Soriano basically said that Soriano has developed an excellent cutter which he uses against lefties.”

    Trader – I told you they knew what they were talking about!

    :D

    I’m now starting to glaze over. What Cashman says, what he doesn’t say, should he say it, shouldn’t he say it, yada yada yada.

    Have a good night y’all!

  34. pat January 19th, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    Doreen

    We want Andy back because he’s earned his job instead of some of those kids who are just having it handed to them. :wink:

  35. MG January 19th, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    You are missing one important thing about Andy…

    He’s a competitor.

    If he’s throwing and feels OK and his family says it’s OK he is going to wake up one morning and decide to come back. He’s way too sincere and classy to pull the crap that Favre has for the past few years and Cashman is an idiot for making a comment like that unless he wants Andy to stay away.

    I’m really thinking he’s going to pitch in 2010. If he had ruled it out it would have been announced already and the tide seems to be moving in the direction of a return.

  36. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    Jerkface, thanks – I just usually only hear about that in reference to the NBA.

    Thats due to the NBAs salary system where a players max salary is determined by a number of factors including the team signing him. So players who want to get paid have to work sign-and-trades.

    It generally doesn’t happen in MLB because teams either just sign the player and forfeit the pick or don’t sign the player. It gets close to happening on Type-A guys that aren’t really Type-A’s, but usually some dumb team swoops in and signs a guy before they pick up enough steam.

    its difficult for a sign and trade because the player has to sign, agree to be traded, and the deal has to be approved by the front office.

  37. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    BoJo -

    Maybe they didn’t want to wait. There were tweets that other teams were interested in Soriano; maybe they didn’t want to take a chance on losing him since they’d already lost out on Lee. Maybe there are things Cashman DID NOT make public. Maybe he just acknowledged the most simplistic explanation – the owners wanted this, so it was done.

  38. bkk January 19th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    Come back Andy, it wouldn’t be the same without you…

  39. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    It’s too bad Aceves isn’t healthy as he could be a pretty good starter – of course, even without his shoulder injury, I doubt he could hold up given his back problems. Still, he’s a good pitcher…………I hope the Yanks re-sign him.

  40. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    pat -

    Those lousy kids of today. Everything on a silver platter. :)

    ****

    Cashman can’t go for the easy laugh, I guess. I figure no one doubts Andy’s commitment and sincerity. If it was in doubt, he never would have even attempted to go for the obvious joke.

  41. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    On a serious note, though, there are no guarantees about what Andy’s season will be. Even so, I’d rather he be the #4 pitcher than someone from outside the organization. And in a perfect world, there’d be one “rookie” at a time being broken in.

    We’re all assuming Nova for the #5 spot, but what if, say, Noesi or Phelps has an outstanding spring and Nova does not?

  42. TD213 January 19th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    “He’s way too sincere and classy to pull the crap that Favre has for the past few years and Cashman is an idiot for making a comment like that unless he wants Andy to stay away.”

    Agree.

    Andy has never mislead Cash anyway. He told him not to count on him. He doesn’t owe anyone a final answer. His spot is open if he wants to come back.

  43. hardwired7 January 19th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    Cashman has played this Soriano thing well.

    Now, when the piece he needs becomes available, Levine and the Steinbrenner Bros. will look like heels if they don’t pony up.

    It’s a $5B enterprise, after all.

  44. YsGuy January 19th, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    to me, if andy’s throwing, andy’s coming back. probably later than sooner, but that will be fine.

  45. 108 stitches January 19th, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    It could be that Andy is wrestling with how to approach Girardi / Cashman about having to skip any pitching turns and disrupting rotation plans during any absences because of the Clemens fiasco. It could be a delicate situation with both Pettitte and Clemens represented by the Hendricks brothers.

  46. blake January 19th, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    Hardwired,

    I.agree and.someone else mentioned that earlier today…cash could be trying to extend the budget a bit since Soriano wasn’t “his signing”.

    Said all along and still think it….Andy is coming back.

  47. BIG AL January 19th, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    The most laughable thing is the incessant whiners that seem to believe they know more than those on the Yankees making the decision to keep Joba in the BP, and not accepting the statements from the FO, and Girardi, that’s where they believe Joba should and will be.

    I guess some think if they call for Joba to get a shot at SP long and hard enough, the FO will be swayed, lol.

  48. Joe from Long Island January 19th, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    trish – I think you’re overstating things a wee little bit.

    “God doesn’t live here anymore”? “God”? I was merely offering a comment on the writings of a professional baseball writer, whom I thought was doing a good job in what he was currently doing. That’s all. If you want to read more into that, that’s you’re right. But I really think you’re taking a lot more out of my comment than was intended.

  49. austinmac January 19th, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    Two thoughts:

    While decisions are not made for the sake of the fans, their can be no doubts ownership wants the fans upbeat for the season. They see decline in immediate profits otherwise from sales. Let’s hope they ultimately realize winning is then true answer to profitability.

    Cashman had no choice to say he was outvoted so to speak. Otherwise, he would be perceived as outrightly lying to the press. I also expect Cashman felt, if ownership wants to spend the money and Soriano does help the team, far be it from him to object. I wonder how Cashman can and will use this spending to argue for spending in another areas, as become available.

  50. pat January 19th, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    K. Long coming up on MLB Network in a minute.

  51. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    I think Cash needs to cool it with discussing Andy Pettitte.

    The guy has earned a right to decide his future on his own. He doesn’t necessarily owe the Yankees anything.

    The Yankees should move on, and if Andy changes his mind, I’m pretty sure they’ll find a way to ‘fit him in’ the rotation.

    It’s that simple. Talking to the media about this stuff is almost never a good idea when it comes to players like Andy.

    I thought Cashman was done talking about it over a week ago. Leave it be.

  52. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    BD -

    You don’t think maybe he was asked about it today at the Soriano press conference? Yesterday he was asked about it at his breakfast – he tried to make a joke about it and it went over with some people like a lead balloon.

    It’s the elephant in the room – is he or isn’t he?

    I’m having difficulty understanding what Cash is supposed to do? Lock himself in a room? Have “no comment” tattooed to his forehead?

    He is the GM of the NY Yankees. There’s only so much sidestepping one can do.

  53. Tom in N.J. January 19th, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    It’s a process?

  54. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    Doreen,

    Of course he was asked about it.

    And his answer should remain – “I would love to have Andy back, but I respect his decision. We’ll move on… but if Andy wants to talk, we’ll talk.”

    Saying stuff “don’t Brett Favre us” is unnecessary and certainly doesn’t help – especially when the media generally feasts on all things Yankees… usually trying to stir the pot.

    I doubt Andy appreciates being discussed in this way in the media. The less the better.

  55. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    The Yankees should move on, and if Andy changes his mind, I’m pretty sure they’ll find a way to ‘fit him in’ the rotation.

    It’s that simple. Talking to the media about this stuff is almost never a good idea when it comes to players like Andy.

    I thought Cashman was done talking about it over a week ago. Leave it be.

    All they’ve done is state over and over that they are moving on without him. That doesn’t stop reporters from asking Cashman every day about Andy Pettitte. Until Andy gives a 100% denial of playing next season he is fair game. Cashman can’t say no comment every day.

  56. Crawdaddy January 19th, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    BD,

    You think Cashman wants to keep discussing Pettitte? He’s the one being asked the same question almost everyday.

  57. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    Saying stuff “don’t Brett Favre us” is unnecessary and certainly doesn’t help – especially when the media generally feasts on all things Yankees… usually trying to stir the pot.

    He was quoting as having said that TO Andy. “I told him not to Brett Favre us.” IE A Joke. Lordy.

  58. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    Doreen,

    If the media weren’t the way they are, it wouldn’t be as big of a deal.

    I just don’t think Andy enjoys seeing headlines on ESPN saying “Cashman to Pettitte – Don’t Brett Favre Us!”

    I’m sure Cashman was joking – but he has to know that the media is going to stir the pot and try to turn nothing into something. So why feed the mongrels?

  59. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    BD -

    In fairness, Cash has been saying versions of your response for a couple for months now. It is in the joking stages.

    There’s a definite lack of sense of humor here.

  60. Crawdaddy January 19th, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    “He was quoting as having said that TO Andy. “I told him not to Brett Favre us.” IE A Joke. Lordy.”

    Right, he probably got a chuckle out of Andy when he said it to him.

  61. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    Crawdaddy,

    If he’s asked the same question over and over, why can’t he have the same answer over and over?

    Why does Cash have to give them fodder for their newspaper headlines?

    Do you think Andy wants to be on the front page of ESPN for somethign ridiculous like this?

    I doubt it.

  62. RMS January 19th, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    I would love to have Andy back, but it is Jan. 19 and Andy still can’t make a decision. How long does it take to talk with your family?
    As soon as Lee signed with Philly, Cashman should have looked into getting a starter. Now we have no Lee and maybe no Andy. And Cashman is saying he was not for signing Soriano. Great.

  63. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    Doreen,

    I agree with you – I just see what the media is doing with this headline… and I don’t think anybody is surprised.

    I don’t see the need to feed the media so they can create salacious, negative articles out of nothing.

  64. Crawdaddy January 19th, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    “Do you think Andy wants to be on the front page of ESPN for somethign ridiculous like this?”

    Perhaps you should let Cashman do the explaining to Pettitte since he’s the one that actually talks to the guy and knows him pretty well.

  65. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    “I would love to have Andy back, but it is Jan. 19 and Andy still can’t make a decision. How long does it take to talk with your family?”

    —————

    Didn’t Andy say “move on without me” ?

    He made his decision. If he changes his mind (is he not entitled to?) then he’ll probably let everyone know.

  66. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    BD -

    Andy’s a big boy and he’s been involved with the Yankees and the NY media for a looooong time. He can probably handle it, I’m guessing.

  67. Crawdaddy January 19th, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    BD,

    You worry too much. It’s only baseball and we’re still in January.

  68. CCBiggs January 19th, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    Andy will be back. A man can only stand being around his wife and kids for so long. Another few days should do it.

  69. Nick in SF January 19th, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    Andy’s reaction might depend on whether Cashman actually said “Don’t Bret Favre us!” To him or not.

    If Cashman said it, Andy is already in on the joke.

    If Cashman was joking about having said it at the breakfast, maybe the quote doesn’t look as great out of context.

    I highly doubt Cashman’s comment will be a real factor in Andy’s decision. That would be kind of silly.

  70. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    BD -

    The media will do what the media will do.

  71. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    Crawdaddy,

    I guess we should shut down the blog because none of us know more than Cashman, the players, or the front office.

    If my opinion or speculations are useless because they’re not as important as Cashman’s, then so is yours and everyone’s on here.

    Great post man.

  72. Crawdaddy January 19th, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    BD,

    Did I hurt your little feelings. I’m sorry you’re so worried about a rather funny comment from Cashman.

  73. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Crawdaddy,

    let it go.

    I gave an opinion and your response was in essence “Cashman knows more than you do so you shouldn’t give your opinions. ”

    you didn’t hurt my feelings. you hurt the integrity of the blog.

  74. Latroy Farnsworth January 19th, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    What a day for Cashman. 1. Admits he had nothing to do with the Soriano deal because he didn’t think it made sense. 2. Actually admits he talked to Pavanos agent about bringing him back. 3. Disrespects Pettitte with his Favre. Cashmans contract runs out after the season and I hope Hal is smart enough to show him door.

  75. Crawdaddy January 19th, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    BD,

    Give me a break! You’re taking this Pettitte discussion a little too seriously.

  76. Crawdaddy January 19th, 2011 at 6:46 pm

    Also, if you’re worried about he integrity of this blog then don’t read what’s posted here later tonight.

  77. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    Crawdaddy,

    I’m not taking it seriously at all.

    I said I think Cashman should lay off feeding the media headlines on Andy Pettitte.

    That’s it. I actually agree with Doreen’s responses to me and Nick in SF as well.

    You are the only one who seems to have a problem. I’m all set with continuing this.

  78. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    “Also, if you’re worried about he integrity of this blog then don’t read what’s posted here later tonight.”

    ————-

    true – I guess that was a poor choice of words :)

  79. Crawdaddy January 19th, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    Anything you say man.

  80. RMS January 19th, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    “Didn’t Andy say “move on without me” ?”

    Who says that? Either say “I’m retiring” or “I’m coming back.”
    Or maybe he will come back a few months into the season IF the Yanks are still in the race?

  81. tyanksfan36 January 19th, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    I didn’t see a problem with the comment Cashman made about Andy, I thought it was funny and relevant. Some people have to sense of humor.

    As for Soriano, Cashman didn’t say he didn’t want Soriano at all, just not for the price and who can blame him. That is the stupidest contract(outside of Arod of course) a ridiculous amount of money for an EIG.

  82. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    On another note…

    did someone mention vindaloo and burritos??

  83. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    tyanksfan36

    How was your day?????

  84. Nick in SF January 19th, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    Andy has just replied: “Don’t treat me like Montel Williams!” :mad:

  85. tyanksfan36 January 19th, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    Doreen

    It was a good day, thanks for asking. Its a big difference from fifth grade which is the grade I interned in last semester. Not sure about the supervising teacher yet, she didn’t know she was getting an intern and never asked for one so I’m not sure if she is happy to have me. Besides that its good, the kids were all very well behaved and monday I am introducing their book for the week and vocabulary words. I’m also drinking a lot of airborne because they’re all sniffling and coughing.

  86. 108 stitches January 19th, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    tyanksfan36 January 19th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
    I didn’t see a problem with the comment Cashman made about Andy, I thought it was funny and relevant. Some people have to sense of humor.

    As for Soriano, Cashman didn’t say he didn’t want Soriano at all, just not for the price and who can blame him. That is the stupidest contract(outside of Arod of course) a ridiculous amount of money for an EIG.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    You’re half right. Soriano’s role is a dual one. EIG and co-closer. As for the money, you get what you pay for.

  87. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 19th, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    Joe – you missed my attempt at humor. Maybe it would have made more sense if I said “render to God, Caesar doesn’t live here anymore,” but since I was going for Pete Abe seeing himself as god, I said it the other way. But actually, Caesar was also pretty apt.

    :)

    About his complete coverage of players – those he loved got showered with roses. Those he didn’t love he couldn’t kick enough. Poor Arod…

  88. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    “Justin Duchscherer held private workouts for two American League clubs this week in Phoenix, according to ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick.

    Duchscherer threw off a mound and performed agility drills in an attempt to show the two teams that he is rehabbed from hip surgery. The right-hander drew interest from the Yankees earlier this winter, but they were not one of the clubs involved. “

  89. Tom in N.J. January 19th, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    My very first job (post college) was as a 5th grade teacher.

    After a year I ran back into the arms of Academia.

  90. blake January 19th, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    SI_JonHeyman

    1. #pirates tried for pavano. clint hurdle really impressed the pitcher. but understandable he chose to stay w/winning team 7 minutes ago via web
    2. pavano can get 500 grand in incentives to bring deal to $17M. 100 grand will be added in ’12 for 190/200 IPs in ’11, 150 g’s for 210/220 IPs 11 minutes ago via web
    3. pavano gets $16.5 million, 2 yrs from #twins 14 minutes ago via web

  91. coney1 January 19th, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    Ken_Rosenthal

    Source: #Yankees continue to look at both A. Jones and Damon.

    You have to wonder if the Yankees really want Damon back and have been throwing all of these rumors about Jones out there to get Damon to make a decision.

  92. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    tyanksfan36 -

    Bring tissues!!! :)

    Hopefully it will get worked out with your “host” teacher.

    I student-taught 3rd graders and my first (and only) paid teacher’s job was 1st graders. They were charming.

    Glad it went well overall, though. :)

  93. tyanksfan36 January 19th, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    Tom

    Well the only thing about fifth grade that scares me is the math they are learning. Besides that I don’t really have a preference at all what grade I want to teach as long as I can.

  94. 108 stitches January 19th, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    Nice segment on MLB-TV with Kevin Long. Probably the hardest working hitting coach in the game with strong attention to detail. Interesting approaches.
    Hopefully the day will come when he can quiet down Teixeira in the batter’s box which is his father’s teaching.
    It helped Swisher and Granderson. To a lesser degree, he’ll be working with Jeter to do the same with cutting down the moving parts.

  95. blake January 19th, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    Listening to Cashman’s Q and A session, a couple things struck me:

    1) its sounds like there is just absolutely nothing worth pursuing on the trade market right now. Cashman said that after reporting his conversations with teams to Hal, that’s when he started to seriously start to consider Soriano….there just wasn’t any other way to improve the team this winter.

    2) he spoke about how Hal has different and more things to consider than he does. He compared it to Hal watching the team from 10,000 feet while he watched it from 1,500…meaning that Hal has a broader responsibility than the details of the personal. He said that ownership realizes how much Yankee fans spend on their team and feel an obligation to re-invest each year to put the best product they possibly can on the field.

    If this truly is the current dynamic then it really COULD work out to be a good thing. You have owners that want to win and are dedicated to that goal, and a GM that functions like the accountant, keeping everything in check and always reminding of costs and efficiency. If the two sides listen to each other then it could provide a nice situation of checks and balances.

  96. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    blake -

    thank you for taking the time to post that here. How different it is when you get the entire context of what’s going on, no? :)

  97. Tom in N.J. January 19th, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    tyanksfan36:

    It was at a private school. I had little say over anything. Once a student threw his shoe at me, why I have know idea. So I sent him to the office and gave him a detention. After school the student’s mother came storming into my room, tore up the detention slip, and poked me in the eye.

    Later she secretly recorded a conference I held with her. The principal never backed me up. She was afraid that she would pull her kid out of school. Enrollment was low and there was a fear the school would close.

  98. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    Blake, although I’m not happy about Hal overruling Cash, I like that analogy of Cash’s………..because I understand that Hal owns the Yankees, not the Rays. There is an expectation that they put out the best team possible every year – it’s not like NY fans will accept just taking a few years off. I did not freak out about giving up the draft pick, but I hope this isn’t going to be a consistent thing, where Hal doesn’t care whether we give up picks or not. Those picks are the future of this team.

  99. blake January 19th, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    Doreen,

    No problem. :)

    —–
    Also, the K. Long segment is golden for those interested. He really knows his stuff, love the L-screen drill with Cano. K. Long can swing the stick too….

  100. SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    There is nothing wrong with the way the Yankees run their business.

    People overreact to EVERYTHING when it comes to the Yankees and this blog (as well as others) are examples of it.

    “Hal is cheap”. “Hal is interfering”.

    “Cash is the only guy making decisions”. “Cash’s power is gone”.

    It goes on and on.

    Yet, no team in baseball can match the consistency the Yankees have brought to the party the last 16 years. This, despite all the changes in the industry over the past 16 years.

    No team is perfect. Yet, the Yankees have shown to be a very well run organization.

    A much better run organization than the daily whiners on here can comprehend.

  101. SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    In the last 30 years, 5 players chosen with the 31st pick in the baseball draft have made the major leagues.

    Out of those 5 ONE (Greg Maddox) made the all star team.

    They have plenty of draft picks in the draft. It’s a non-issue.

    Guess what? Hal made the right call here.

    They need Soriano and the odds are he will contribute more to the club than the 31st pick in the draft would have if history is any indicator.

  102. blake January 19th, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    Betsy,

    I think the key is that they have real discussion where all opinions are considered and I see no reason to believe that’s not the case. The move does make less sense from Cashman’s POV because he’s trying to make the team as efficient as possible…..the bottom line is that it does make the Yankees better though and from the guy at the head of the table’s perspective, that’s all that matters. I don’t see this as that big of a deal really, just see it as the owners wanting to feed the machine so to speak……

  103. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    Someone should see how many of those 31st picks were part of huge trades.

  104. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    Preston Mattingly was taken with the 31st pick, yankee fans everywhere diss Mattingly!

  105. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    SJ44,

    What are your thoughts on the terms of the contract?

    I’m not a fan of giving 2 player options the way they did – especially when a good year means he opts out. A bad year or more likely injury, means they’re on the hook for $35M.

    I like the signing, just not necessarily the terms.

  106. CB January 19th, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    I wanted a salad for lunch today.

    But Hall called and over ruled me. He demanded that I forget nutritional value and pick up chinese take out instead.

    It left me feeling crushed and oily all afternoon.

    Chinese take out. Hal is so damn extravagantly chintzy.

  107. brownies January 19th, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    Some team over paid pavano again! ? That guy is laughing all the way to the bank. He stole from the yankees now he continues to fool that poor little small market team into giving him a kings ransom. Imagine if he was left handed.

  108. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    SJ44,

    just to play devil’s advocate :)

    does the fact that it’s the Yankees picking #31, where a top 10 caliber player could fall due to signability, make a difference?

    also, is the 2011 draft truly deeper than most, as many have suggested?

    again – not saying giving their pick was a bad move… just curious.

  109. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    Some team over paid pavano again! ?

    He got 8.25 million a year for 2 years, thats a bargain. He was worth 29 million by WAR the last 2 seasons.

  110. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    “Some team over paid pavano again! ?”

    —————–

    so far it seems the only team that didn’t get good value out of him was the Yankees.

    If he pitches like he did last season, the deal with the Twins will be a value.

    I’m not saying I’m rooting for the guy (I will definitely root for him to struggle), but I don’t think they necessarily overpaid.

  111. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    pavano got paid 7 million last year for 221 above average innings. he made a slight raise. Great deal.

  112. tyanksfan36 January 19th, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    Tom

    I work at a private preschool so I understand that. The director of the preschool I first worked at was an awful and spiteful woman but she always, surprisingly had our backs. I think it was because she hated the parents. The director I work for now is much nicer but she will always side with the parent even if their problem is unreasonable and she never comes to us to clarify the issue to see what was happening on our end. Luckily we haven’t had too many ridiculous parents lately so things have been okay.

  113. blake January 19th, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    If Soriano opts out then his contract becomes a 1 year 11.5 million dollar deal and the Yanks will likely receive draft pick compensation when he leaves.(unless the rules are changed)…..that wouldn’t be so bad.

  114. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    If Soriano opts out then his contract becomes a 1 year 11.5 million dollar deal and the Yanks will likely receive draft pick compensation when he leaves.(unless the rules are changed)…..that wouldn’t be so bad.

    The best case scenario for the Yankees involves the player opting out. Not good.

  115. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 8:07 pm

    I happen to think the move was a good one and I think Soriano will be very good, but I’m not about to go raving. The Yankees are an old team and need to start seriously thinking about building from within again. I kind of agree with Rich – it’s not a great thing when the Yankees are only going to give super stud prospects a chance. How many of these types come around? Is the team going to constantly be composed of FA and huge contracts? The more picks, the better……….then again, since the Yankees won’t be giving many of thes picks a chance, I guess they might as well give them up.

  116. blake January 19th, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    Jerkface,

    I don’t see it that way. I didn’t say that it was the best case scenario, only that it wouldn’t be that bad. The best case scenario is that he’s great and takes over for Mo one day…..I think as long as he pitches well and doesn’t get hurt then it will be fine.

  117. SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    It’s very, very doubtful a Top 10 player will fall to #31.

    Even if they did, look at the burn rate of first round draft choices in MLB. It’s much higher than any other sport.

    If you scout well, and get lucky, you may find 5-10 players in a draft that may play a role in the future for your parent club. Whether that future is on the parent club or be part of a trade.

    The terms of Soriano’s deal? Doesn’t bother me too much.

    In essence, it’s a one year deal with two player options. It gives both sides some flexibility.

  118. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    “The best case scenario for the Yankees involves the player opting out. Not good.”

    —————–

    Agreed.

  119. blake January 19th, 2011 at 8:10 pm

    “then again, since the Yankees won’t be giving many of thes picks a chance, I guess they might as well give them up.”

    Betsy,

    If this is how you feel then why are you so opposed to trying the kids out in the rotation if there are no other decent options out there?

  120. Tar January 19th, 2011 at 8:10 pm

    “The best case scenario for the Yankees involves the player opting out. Not good.’

    What if they have someone to replace him at a fraction of the cost and as a bonus collect 2 picks, is that not good?

  121. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 8:10 pm

    Another day and more players are off the available list—Jerry Hairston Jr joins Scott in NL East, Pavano gets 2 years with Twins, and apparently Baltimore might be interested in bringing Millwood back…

    Looks like the last player standing might be among Damon, Vlad, Manny, Nick Johnson, and Millwood. Slim pickings.

  122. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    I don’t see it that way. I didn’t say that it was the best case scenario, only that it wouldn’t be that bad. The best case scenario is that he’s great and takes over for Mo one day…..I think as long as he pitches well and doesn’t get hurt then it will be fine.

    I am saying that the best case scenario is him opting out. The best case scenario for the Yankees is Mariano continues pitching excellently as a hall-of-game-generationally-great-superfreak.

    Even if Soriano takes over for Mo, its only for 1 year. Then they have to sign/develop someone else or re-sign Soriano for even more money. And for that to happen, Soriano has to never opt out, which is almost impossible unless he injures himself or sucks!

    So the best case scenario is Soriano opting out and the yankees recouping the draft picks so they aren’t being held hostage by a middle reliever and his enormous salary.

  123. Nick in SF January 19th, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    Hu are you to argue with Hal’s Chinese takeout directive???

  124. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    Blake, Cash confuses me. He wanted control so he could rebuild the farm system and develop a significant homegrown presence on the team. Well, who are these kids going to be? He’s already offered up Montero for 1/2 year of Lee…..who else will he offer him up for? He said he wanted the team to get younger, but the team is old. What was his big stink about this? The $$$ or the pick? If it’s the $$, why does he care? Does he think he gets bonus points for winning with a lower payroll? I still can’t get past his moronic “atta baby” from a few weeks back. I’m beginning to grow extremely skeptical of Cash at this point

  125. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    SJ44,

    You’re probably right about the pick. The Yanks have done better with their International Signings anyway. Though I know nobody is discounting the value of good scouting and building through the draft.

    “In essence, it’s a one year deal with two player options. It gives both sides some flexibility.”

    What flexibility do the Yankees have with this deal?

    If he pitches well and they would want to keep him, he leaves. If he gets hurt, he stays and they are stuck with him for 3 years.

  126. Carl January 19th, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    # Tar January 19th, 2011 at 8:10 pm

    “The best case scenario for the Yankees involves the player opting out. Not good.’

    What if they have someone to replace him at a fraction of the cost and as a bonus collect 2 picks, is that not good?

    31st pick > 2 picks.

  127. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    In essence, it’s a one year deal with two player options. It gives both sides some flexibility.

    In essence? That is exactly what it is. It doesn’t give the Yankees any flexibility. They have no say in Soriano staying or leaving. He could pitch great, and the Yankees would have nothing to show for it the next year when he opts out.

    Soriano has all the control.

  128. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    I think if Soriano opts out, it ought to mean he had a good year for the Yankees. They may capitalize on that in other ways, younger ways, cheaper ways, than having to keep him for the full contract.

  129. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    What if they have someone to replace him at a fraction of the cost and as a bonus collect 2 picks, is that not good?

    Uh I just said that was the best case scenario. ‘Not Good’ refers to the contract as a whole. Its a not good contract when the best thing that can come out of it is the player opting out. We should all hope for that outcome. The problem is that there are a multitude of things that can go wrong that turn the contract into a disaster.

  130. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    Blake, I would rather have a veteran – Cash can’t find some decent innings eater? Besides, my point has to do with kids in general. I like to see them get chances, but to have two of them at the end of an already very shaky rotation? That’s pretty awful.

  131. SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    Tex isn’t old. Nor is Cano. Martin is only 27 and Montero is only 20. Nunez is young.

    The entire OF is under 30.

    Hughes, Chamberlain, Nova, Logan, and Robertson are young. CC is only 30. Soriano is only 31.

    The Yankees aren’t as old as you think. That’s 60% of the roster 31 and under. That’s actually a very nice balance.

    The Yankees ARE actually building from within. Look at how many homegrown players are on the roster.

  132. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    I have no clue why Cashman had to give these dump opt-outs. If Soriano opts out, we’ve lost our #1 pick in a loaded draft. Did he give the opt out because he didn’t want to do the deal and he’s hoping Soriano leaves?

  133. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    Did he give the opt out because he didn’t want to do the deal and he’s hoping Soriano leaves?

    Cashman didnt negotiate the deal. Levine gave him the opt outs and money.

  134. Nick in SF January 19th, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    “Looks like the last player standing might be among Damon, Vlad, Manny, Nick Johnson, and Millwood.”

    Nick Johnson is standing again? Congrats!

  135. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    Is Livan Hernandez available? He’s a veteran innings eater, I’ve heard. ;)

  136. SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    You can’t have it both ways.

    You can’t decry it’s an “old team” (which it’s not), and then balk when they want to give the kids a chance.

    If you want the team to develop the kids, then they have to play.

  137. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    I asked this once before and got no answer.

    I keep hearing this draft is deep.

    Well, is there a particular player that the Yankees are going to miss out on that would make a difference?

    Is there a particular player than anyone here hoped would have fallen to the Yankees?

    If it’s so deep, shouldn’t there be some decent players left to draft at 44 and beyond?

  138. CB January 19th, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    Who am I too argue with directives?

    Randy Levine transliterates into Jiang Qing after all.

  139. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    SJ, I’m talking position players – and not any of the core four. Who do we have? Yankees traded Jackson and they will continue to trade any promising youngster that doesn’t have a stud ceiling because they have no patience whatsoever. Nova isn’t proven – I’m not going to count him. Joba – well he’s nice enough, but look at him now compared to what he was supposed to be. I refuse to get into Phil as you all know how I feel. Logan – let’s see if he can be good for another year. Robertson is nice, but he’s at middle of the pen guy .

    Nunez isn’t on the team yet and how can I count him when he’s anything but proven? Montero isn’t on the team yet – if he has a decent ST he probably will be, but I’m not one to assume he’s going to be great right off the bat. Young players struggle – see Wieters, Matt as one example. Cano is in his prime and I suppose Tex is (but I tend to side with GLove on him). I like the Martin deal, but let’s see how he does first.

  140. blake January 19th, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    The only “old ” players the Yankees have are Jeter, Arod, Posada, and Rivera and one of those is in the last year of their deal…..and AJ is getting up there. Everyone else is either in prime or younger.

    Jerkface,

    So if Soriano pitches great in 2011, opts out and gets the Yankees picks then why is that a bad thing. If Soriano pitches like he’s capable then I think it will be a good deal either way.

  141. Joe from Long Island January 19th, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    Hu is first?

  142. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    SJ, ok, but the chances of winning with this rotation and with 2 kids at the back are pretty slim. I don’t care how good the pen is, it’s going to be dead by May given the lack of innings we can expect from most of the rotation.

    I admit I’m torn about the Yankees…….I’m not doom and gloom with them, but neither do I feel like I need to wear sunglasses because their future is so bright.

  143. SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 8:26 pm

    Doreen,

    No, the Yankees won’t lose out on a particular player.

    Over 1500 players are drafted each year in the amateur draft. Less than 200 of them play 5 years or more of major league baseball.

    No sport has a higher burn rate for draft picks than MLB.

    Good players will be available for the Yankees in the draft. There are every year.

  144. Yankee Trader January 19th, 2011 at 8:26 pm

    If Soriano opts out, then the Yankees likely got their moneys worth and he’ll be competing for dollars with Bell, Broxton, Capps, Papelbon,, and possibly Nathan, Valverde, K-Rod and Lidge.

    Why would he ever opt out after year two, unless Mo decides to keep it going, which is doubtful.

  145. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 8:26 pm

    Blake, Jeter has 4 more years……..Alex has what, 6? That’s half the infield. I love Granderson. I’m still skeptical of Gardner and although I like Swish, frankly I’d rather another RF after his contract ends.

  146. blake January 19th, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    I figured this up a few weeks ago but if you replace Posada with Montero then the Yankees average position player age is actually less than Boston’s is…..its only like a year more with Posada.

  147. filthy slider January 19th, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    This puke Brian Cashman has the nerve to impune the dedication of Andy Pettitte, give me a break, Cashman who is on his way to proving he’s the worst G.M. in baseball has hit a new low. Please I’m begging the Stein boys FIRE THIS PUNK.

  148. Nick in SF January 19th, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    Everyone knows they torpedoed Chien-ming Wang — from the “rebel province” Taiwan , aka the Republic of China — because Randy Levine is obsessed with the mainland China market.

    Hu claps, Levine dances.

    Deny it all you want, but there’s no opt-out clause in Randy Levine’s deal with the ChiComm devils.

    :cry:

  149. Tom in N.J. January 19th, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    I really like this quote from Long about Cano:

    “Robbie is the face of the franchise going into the future”

  150. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    I have no clue why Cashman had to give these dump opt-outs. If Soriano opts out, we’ve lost our #1 pick in a loaded draft. Did he give the opt out because he didn’t want to do the deal and he’s hoping Soriano leaves?

    ___

    1. Probably didnt have a choice
    2. If he opts out and they offer arbitration, they can get a draft pick.

  151. tyanksfan36 January 19th, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    Betsy

    You’re very pessimistic. You said something negative about everyone on the team. Do you chew a lot of tums between April and November? That comment wasn’t meant to be mean, just the way you feel about everyone it must be difficult for you to get through the season.

  152. SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    The Yankees future is actually very bright. You just refuse to see it.

    When you don’t think an all star starter under 25 is very good, how can you look at the team objectively?

    They are bringing back most of the team that was 2 wins away from the WS, and added Soriano to the mix.

    They have a Top 10 farm system with some very exciting players close to being ML ready.

    It’s not unreasonable to assume some of the injured guys and guys who had off-seasons will have better seasons.

    Under any objective analysis, the Yankees have a very bright future.

  153. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    SJ44 -

    That is what I thought. I just wondered if all the people upset about losing “the draft pick” had any particular player in mind that they thought the Yankees lost out on.

  154. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    So if Soriano pitches great in 2011, opts out and gets the Yankees picks then why is that a bad thing.

    Holy crap I didn’t say that was a bad thing. If Soriano pitches great and then opts out THATS THE BEST CASE. Understand these words that I am saying. The deal as a whole is bad because the best case scenario is Soriano opting out after pitching well for 1 year.

    I think there is little chance he pitches well and then doesn’t opt out. He will jump ship to close somewhere if given the chance.

    The bad things that can go wrong include being injured and engaging his options, taking up expensive space. Pitching at a level that doesnt justify his pay and continuing to trigger the options.

    And if he opts out, thats not a 100% win for the Yankees because if he pitches well I’m sure the Yankees wish they had him locked into another year but they have NO CHOICE. They don’t have a team option they can exercise if he performs well, he isn’t under contract for multiple years.

    Giving him a multiple year contract comprised solely of player options means the Yankees carry 100% of the risk. Why not just give him a 1 year deal? Because Soriano wants insurance that if he stinks or gets hurt he can get paid 20 mil over 2 years to do nothing/stink/try to rebuild his value at a very good price

  155. Yankee Trader January 19th, 2011 at 8:34 pm

    This year might be loaded with draft picks but next year is full of good FA closers that Soriano would have to compete with.

  156. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    SJ, I don’t want to argue with you so let’s not get into that 25 year old starter you are referring to. We’ve been there, done that – I think we can agree to disagree and be civil about it.

    I think Jeter will bounce back and I think Alex if he’s healthy will be very good – key word being IF. I LOVE Granderson – I think he will have a huge year. Posada is old and I have no clue how he will do as a DH. I really can’t wait to see Cano – I feel about him the way I did watching Jeter grow up before our eyes: incredibly proud that he’s on our team.

    My thing with the farm system is that it’s almost predicated entirely on pitching – we’ve got Montero and Sanchez and then what else? I love Banuelos and Betances, but since I don’t think the big 3 turned out to be what we thought, I’m going to wait and see how they do up here before I go gaga about them.

  157. CB January 19th, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    One of the biggest advantages to Soriano of having that opt out is in case Mariano gets hurt or decides to retire for some unforeseen reason. At this age it’s all uncharted territory.

    If that happens, and Soriano has even a half way decent season this year, he’s going to opt out.

    That way he’ll reenter the market when the Yankees need a closer. That will potentially force the Yankees to pursue him as a free agent so he can get the 15M/yr deal he was looking for.

    If Soriano has a good season this year and Mo does get hurt or show signs of deteriorating, Soriano will opt out and have enormous leverage over the yankees.

  158. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    “Doreen,

    No, the Yankees won’t lose out on a particular player.”

    ——————

    Has there EVER been a particular player that has fallen to the end of the 1st round?

    The draft is about finding as many players as you can that have potential, so that maybe one or two of them make it to your big league club to help someday.

    SJ44 is right. odds are against the #31 pick ever reaching the majors, let alone being an all-star.

    But I know SJ44 also knows that it’s not about putting your chips into one prospect. It’s about getting as many top prospects as you can to increase your odds.

    Is it too much to pay for a proven elite bullpen arm? Of course not.

    But saying that the odds are against one draft pick being good is missing the point, a bit.

  159. Joe from Long Island January 19th, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    I do not understand why there should be concern over a #31 draft pick, who, if, IF, he really pans out, will be ready to help the major league team in 3-4 years.

    You can win an awful lot of games in3-4 years. Games and championships.

    Hyped prospects can NOT turn out so well. Remember Phil Nevin? Jeffrey Hammond? Paul Shuey? Brien Taylor? The list goes on and on…..

    Stuff happens. Why are we so concerned over something that’s so far down the road, and may never pan out? Is Rafael Soriano that much of a dud?

  160. tyanksfan36 January 19th, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    SJ44 says:

    January 19, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    You can’t have it both ways.

    You can’t decry it’s an “old team” (which it’s not), and then balk when they want to give the kids a chance.

    If you want the team to develop the kids, then they have to play.

    I agree, I’d rather see the young guys out there trying to prove themselves which we all know they want to be in NY then some guy coming off an injury trying to bounceback while they sit in AAA wasting away. I was so excited to see Nova, I was praying that they bring him up and give him a chance. I personally thought he did fine but was probably getting tired from a long season.

  161. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    I know this is late, but I’m sorry to see Thames go. He was a terrific pickup – I don’t understand why the Yankees showed zero interest in re-signing him.

  162. Tar January 19th, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    Jerkface

    Bottom line I agree.

    But this confusing

    ” Holy crap I didn’t say that was a bad thing.”

    “The deal as a whole is “BAD” because the best case scenario is Soriano opting out after pitching well for 1 year”

  163. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    Then the Yankees giving these opt outs to Soriano makes no sense……….kind of makes me regret the deal.

  164. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    “If Soriano has a good season this year and Mo does get hurt or show signs of deteriorating, Soriano will opt out and have enormous leverage over the yankees.”

    —————-

    CB,

    Do you really think Soriano stays if Mo is healthy?

    I think Soriano opts out no matter what unless he has a terrible year or gets injured.

    Why wouldn’t he opt out if he pitches well? He’ll easily exceed the guaranteed dollars that would remain on his deal from another team in need of a closer, no?

  165. Joe from Long Island January 19th, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    Being great requires making decisions, sometimes bold and risky ones. You have to dare to be great.

  166. DocTodd January 19th, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    Thames couldn’t catch a cold in the outfield.Hopefully they close the deal with A. Jones,who can play some outfield and give them a decent bat Vs. Lefties…..

  167. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    Bottom line I agree.

    But this confusing

    ” Holy crap I didn’t say that was a bad thing.”

    “The deal as a whole is “BAD” because the best case scenario is Soriano opting out after pitching well for 1 year”

    Soriano’s deal is bad. IE the entire contract. A good result (the best case) is him pitching well and opting out. The problem is that anything less than that means the yankees will be paying 10 mil to an injured or ineffective soriano.

  168. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    “I know this is late, but I’m sorry to see Thames go. He was a terrific pickup – I don’t understand why the Yankees showed zero interest in re-signing him.”

    —————

    I agree, except it appears the Yankees are interested in finding someone to replace Thames bat but also who can play at least average defense in the OF (or better.)

    Andruw Jones would give them that. If they get Jones, it’s a clear upgrade over Thames (on paper of course.)

    But Thames was a terrific pickup last season and I’m sure he’d continue to hit left-handed pitching well if they had resigned him.

  169. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    But this confusing

    I never said Soriano pitching well and opting out was bad. I said the deal is bad because we’re all hoping he pitches well and then opts out. I mean when have you heard of fans wishing a player leaves as soon as possible?

  170. CB January 19th, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    Once, I offered a young Randy Levine a scholarship to attend boarding school in hawaii so that he could be properly educated and meet good comrade poster m.

    He declined.

    Later on I sent him a book – Three Principles of the Yankee People. And he completely misunderstood every word.

    And now – he refuses to equitably normalize the value on the Yankee Dollar at true market rates while still making threatening gestures against Staten Island, another good land surrounded by water.

  171. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    Joe from Long Island,

    draft picks are like scratch tickets, IMO.

    You don’t expect to win every time. But if you have two tickets, your odds are twice as good that you win some money as if you only have one.

    So sure, odds are against the #31 pick reaching the club.

    But it doesn’t mean it’s no big deal, either. A first round pick, if scouted well, is like having a $20 scratch ticket. Maybe a 2nd rounder is a $15 scratch ticket, and so on…. :)

    I don’t think losing that pick should have been a deal-breaker for an elite bullpen arm, but it’s also not fair to say “who cares – the guy will probably be a dud.”

    The real problem, IMO, is what Jerkface is eluding to.

    The contract they gave Soriano carries considerable risk and I don’t see what it was a necessary risk. The two player options are peculiar and potentially terrible.

  172. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    Tis true that poor Thames was awful in the OF, but he had a terrific year and had some huge hits. I wish him the best of luck.

    It’s not enough that we had Damon, Cone, Gooden, Clemens, Boggs and Straw (all of whom I loved after having hated with a passion – well, not Doc – I always loved him), but now we’re close to signing Jones. LOL it’s just so funny how things work – when these players were in their primes, they were hated and were part of fierce rivalries. Then, they all end up in pinstripes somehow. Amazing

  173. Yankee Trader January 19th, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    If Soriano opts out and goes elsewhere we’ll sign Bell or one of the other FA closers next year.

    I’d rather focus on who our 4th and 5th starting pitchers will be in April.

  174. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    BD, I’m hoping Soriano will stay so that he can be mentored by Mo to be the next Yankee closer. The opt outs didn’t bother me before, but now they do.

  175. Carl January 19th, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    If he pitches well I want him to stay.

  176. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    Well, since this is the situation we are in, might as well make the best of it. Despite my feeling that the situation is tenuous, it’s always fun to see kids duke it out in ST.

  177. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    If he pitches well I want him to stay.

    You and the Yankees have no say in the matter. He clearly won’t stay if he pitches well. Its why the deal is stupid.

  178. blake January 19th, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    CB,

    That’s true but there will be a lot of other closers available next winter as well….maybe not as good as Soriano but perhaps good enough to give the Yankees options in the event Mo went down (heaven forbid)

    Jerkface,

    Yea I get what you’re saying but the Yanks are banking on him.being good. If he is then either way I think its a deal they can live with…its a risk but its one they.can.absorb. and apparently are willing to take.

  179. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    Betsy,

    I would LOVE to have Soriano on board for a while. He was dominant last season pitching in the AL East.

    But if he pitches well, I can’t see any scenario where he doesn’t opt out.

  180. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    “If Soriano opts out and goes elsewhere we’ll sign Bell or one of the other FA closers next year.

    I’d rather focus on who our 4th and 5th starting pitchers will be in April.”

    ————-

    like who? Papelbon? :)

  181. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    BD, I won’t worry about that now. People think CC will opt out and I most emphatically don’t. I guess Cash gave him the opt outs as his way of protesting being forced to do this deal?

  182. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    I don’t think the more scratch tickets you have the better your chances are of winning. Each ticket has it’s own chance.

    Same with draft picks.

    I think so, anyway.

  183. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    Yea I get what you’re saying but the Yanks are banking on him.being good.

    Uh no kidding. Every time a baseball team signs someone they are banking on them being good. The problem is the deal is 100% risk for the Yankees.

  184. CB January 19th, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    “Why wouldn’t he opt out if he pitches well? He’ll easily exceed the guaranteed dollars that would remain on his deal from another team in need of a closer, no?”

    It’s just going to depend on what the demand for a closer looks like next winter.

    For example, it will depend on factors like whether or not Dan Bard has a good season. If he’s not so good, it’ll then depend on how much Boras thinks Boston will be willing to pony up for a closer who is 32 years old.

    On the whole, if he thinks he can get $1 more than the two years remaining on his deal with the Yanks, he’ll opt out.

    But the number of teams willing to pay a closer more than $12M/ years is very, very small. As Soriano found out this off season. So in part he’s going to have balance issues like AAV vs. total guaranteed money, etc.

    The mets, angels, and dodgers – all big market teams – don’t seem like viable places even next winter. White sox? Depends on what their overall costs look like. I’m sure they’d love to have him. But they will be price sensitive. Same for the cubs.

    There just aren’t that many teams for a closer to go to at the money Soriano wants.

    If Mo gets hurt he’ll definitely opt out. Otherwise, it’s a bit unclear and will really depend on the market looks like.

  185. 108 stitches January 19th, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    With few exceptions, the relievers / closers were the big winners as free agents for this offseason. Most got contracts they never would have imagined.
    If the 2011 free agent class had more to offer for marquee position players and starters, the market would have been different and bullpen types in less demand and forced to accept less money once a team’s budget had been reached.

  186. Yankee Trader January 19th, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    I’m with you Blake. Wish Soriano with his arsenal of 4-5 pitches and a nasty cutter to lefties would be our starter for two years and take over for Mo as our closer. :)

  187. Joe from Long Island January 19th, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    Boston Dave – I hear you. I’m just not that worked up about it. Neither the draft picks, nor the opt outs. Part of the calculation is, in order for Soriano to exercise the opt out, the expectation that someone will exceed what you would have been paid.

    In Alex Rodriguez’ case, that someone seems like it could have been Hank bidding against himself.

    CC has an optout, and all indications from him are that he will not exercise it.

    Let’s see what actually happens. Having control over the two best closers in the AL really isn’t a bad thing IMO.

  188. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    Betsy,

    The difference with giving CC an opt-out:

    a) it was after 3 seasons

    b) it was one opt out, Soriano has 2 player option years

    c) CC was the #1 free agent on the market. An elite starter who the Yankees desperately needed at almost any cost.

    The Yankees didn’t desperately need a setup man, though, of course, Soriano could be very valuable to the team. He’s a great pitcher.

    Also and more importantly, the market apparently wasn’t anywhere close to what it was for CC.

    I could have seen the Yankees giving Cliff Lee an opt out, not a relief pitcher.

    In fact, I think this is probably the first opt out for a relief pitcher in history, no?

  189. blake January 19th, 2011 at 8:58 pm

    Something tells me that when Girardi brings in Soriano to face Youkallis with a one run lead at Fenway, that everyone will be happy in that moment.

  190. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 8:58 pm

    If Soriano opts out and they Yankees still want him to close, it’ll just cost them more. It’s only money.

    (Ducking)

  191. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    “Part of the calculation is, in order for Soriano to exercise the opt out, the expectation that someone will exceed what you would have been paid. ”

    —————-

    perhaps, but not necessarily.

    If Soriano pitches even close to what he did last season, I’d think he could opt out and still get more than $30M guaranteed.

    The problem isn’t as much about him opting out, as it is him OPTING IN.

    If he opts “in”, it means he either didn’t pitch that well or he’s hurt. That’s the major concern. They could be on the hook for $24M for an injured pitcher.

  192. SAS January 19th, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    Why don’t you all listen to SJ…He knows more about baseball, probably sports in general, than most others. Enough whining.

    The Yankees have been to the playoffs all but one year in the last 15. What other team can say that.

    It is amazing to me that people who supposedly love this team can complain so much.

  193. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    Doreen,

    that’s true. If the Yankees still want to sign him, it probably means he did a darn good job for them too.

    But again, the issue isn’t as much about him opting out as it is him opting in.

    If he opts in for 2012, it’s almost certainly a very very bad thing.

  194. G. Love January 19th, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    If Soriano opts out after year one he’ll be entering a free agent class with a lot of closers in it.

    The Yankees would have options other than Soriano and the Yankee dollars he’s earmarked for could disappear if he walked away from the deal that soon.

    In year 2, is when I think he has major leverage. If Mo is retiring and Soriano is the best closer on the market if he opts out, then he will opt out and the Yankees will have to decide if they want to go long term with him at 33 years of age.

    This is a good deal for the Yankees. Using the opt out in year one lets the Yankees pick Mo’s successor from a large field. He would be stupid to give up Yankee dollars when this past season he couldn’t get teams who needed a closer to sign him for what he thought he was worth.

    I’m not worried about the deal. Essentially it’s a minimum 2 year deal (I expect him to opt out in year 2, not after 1) unless he gets injured.

  195. blake January 19th, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    Jerkface,

    How much risk is it really? If they can absorb the contract and not skip a beat then is it something that they should really worry about if it has a chance to make a difference in a positive way. Every contract is a risk and perhaps this one moreso than others but I don’t think its a risk for the Yankees in the same way as it would be for a lot of other clubs.

  196. Tar January 19th, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    “The problem isn’t as much about him opting out, as it is him OPTING IN”

    We have a winner.

  197. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    “It is amazing to me that people who supposedly love this team can complain so much.”

    ————

    I can only speak for myself, but it’s hardly complaining.

    If it’s not reasonable for fans to discuss moves, good or bad, then what are we doing here?

    I will root for Soriano to pitch like Joba circa-2007 in the pen.

    I will root for the Yanks to crush the life out of the Sawx.

    But all my rooting won’t stop Soriano from costing the Yankees $35M if he gets hurt.

  198. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    Closers next year
    Heath Bell SD 34 years old
    Jonathan Broxton LAD 27
    Matt Capps MIN 27
    Francisco Cordero CIN * 38
    Ryan Franklin STL 39
    Brad Lidge PHI * 35
    Ryan Madson PHI 31
    Joe Nathan MIN * 37
    Jonathan Papelbon BOS 31
    Francisco Rodriguez NYM * 30
    Jose Valverde DET 34
    Joel Zumaya DET 27

    Soriano might be one of the younger/better options on the market next year.

  199. Joe from Long Island January 19th, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    blake – spot on.

  200. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 9:06 pm

    BD -

    I really do understand that.

    Probably the Yankees do too and were willing to take the risk (and could afford it).

    Hey, at least it wasn’t Cashman’s call. (Ducking again)

  201. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    Fans often agonize over what a team pays a player which doesn’t really reflect reality IMO. Scott Boras has always been right, baseball owners have never been more flush with cash; more so than most average fans realize. Accordingly, many of these team payrolls are purely arbitrary and capricious and are formulated to maximize profits. That’s fine. But telling the fans and agents they have to stick to “their budget” and can’t afford players is preposterous. I feel the owners come very close to collusion sometimes.

    Players are entertainers and are no different than actors, singers, etc. That’s true the world over and not just here, those who bring us joy get paid huge amounts of money. They deserve it, because they generate huge amounts of money. Whether it’s for a team owner, a movie studio or a record label.

  202. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    go for depth. I bet Pettitte comes back. Also still think Duchscherer on a deal with innings incentives would be good too. Then Jones/Damon and set to go.

  203. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    How much risk is it really? If they can absorb the contract and not skip a beat then is it something that they should really worry about if it has a chance to make a difference in a positive way.

    He makes 10 mil a year, that means the Yankees keep him on the roster to try and get return on their investment even if he is injured or sucks like Burnett. He eats up a 40 man spot, and will be put on the 60 dl every year like Marte and cause 40 man roster crunch if he is injured. If he sucks the Yankees will have to try and get him to pitch better instead of just getting rid of him or whatever. The price per year for Soriano means that if he is good, OK, but if he is bad the Yankees won’t be able to just dump him. That means that not only will he be eating 10 million dollars the yankees could spend elsewhere (and until the yankees spend over 210 mil annually we assume they operate on a budget that stops them from getting every player they want or could use), but if he is ineffective he will be hurting games as Girardi and Cashman leave him active to try and work through it.

  204. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    “If they can absorb the contract and not skip a beat then is it something that they should really worry about”

    —————-

    just because a team can absorb the loss of millions of dollars doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect the team.

    You’re telling me the $25M they won’t spend because they have to pay Soriano while he’s on the DL couldn’t have been spent on other players to improve the team?

    I’m tired of the “the Yankees can spend as much $$ as they want” argument. They clearly cannot, and giving out bad contracts is one way to keep them from doing that.

  205. 108 stitches January 19th, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    Boston had better hope that Papelbon will have a career year to enhance his earning power for the 2012 FA class.
    He’s on record that he will leave Boston and explore the market after 2011. The hierarchy in Boston will be thrilled to have his money to apply to the contracts of Crawford and possibly Gonzalez plus to cut down on some luxury tax and have Bard as the closer for some cost controlled years.

  206. CB January 19th, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    Regardless of the Soriano signing, I’m going to guess that at some point this next season there’s going to be many yankee fans desperately wondering who is going to pitch the 8th inning and posting about how the bull pen isn’t good enough.

    It happens every year. It’ll happen again this season.

  207. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    Accordingly, many of these team payrolls are purely arbitrary and capricious and are formulated to maximize profits

    Yes, and owners won’t break payroll. Which means that the price players are paid does matter. The Yankees have around 210 million to spend on all their players. So trying to determine the most efficient way to maximize that 210 mil is important. Just like the Twins could afford to spend 200 mil, but they don’t, and subsequently they traded JJ Hardy because they didnt want to pay 5 mil for him to sit on the bench despite playing 2 unproven players at SS and 2B and they gave Capps 7 million which could have gone to better players.

  208. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    On this Soriano deal that LEVINE NEGOTIATED (not Cashman), I think it can actually work out well even if Soriano has a great year.

    I believe he has to notify Yankees of his intent to opt out within a week of end of series. At that time there will be a glut in market for closers. In the week before he announces, the Yankees can basically point to the glut and say to Boras, if you opt out, we are going to sign someone else immediately.

    Boras knows he will run a huge risk if the Yankees are not among bidders,a nd I think the Yankees can force his hand to stay and not exercise opt out in year 1.

    In year 2–hopefully Brackman or another prospect is ready to take over, and the Yankees can again force Boras’s hand by saying we’ll John Wettleland you if you choose to opt out.

    Or if they in fact want to turn the reins over to a younger player, they can play it like they really want him to be Mo’s replacement and spread word that they will sign him no matter what. Then hope that Boras overplays his hand and opts out.

    It should be an interesting time watching how it unfolds.

  209. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    If the Yankees could survive any deal they hand out Lee would be a yankee, as would Crawford.

  210. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    Doreen,

    If there were teams beating down Soriano’s door trying to sign him, and the only way the Yankees could get him was to throw those options in, ok. I could live with that.

    But it seemed like the market was thinning for Soriano. Not because he isn’t great, but because there weren’t any teams that both needed a closer AND were willing to pay over $30M for one.

    Maybe I’m wrong – but it just seems like it might have been unnecessary.

    I’m not going to lose sleep over it, of course. I’ll be rooting for Soriano to opt out just like the Yankees will be (which means Soriano was lights out.)

  211. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    “Boras knows he will run a huge risk if the Yankees are not among bidders,a nd I think the Yankees can force his hand to stay and not exercise opt out in year 1.”

    ————–

    because Boras clients don’t always opt out?

    If Soriano pitches well, he is opting out.

    You know what alot of closers on the free agent market ALSO means?

    It means alot of teams just lost their closer and need a new one.

  212. Tar January 19th, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    For me it’s not so much that they signed Soriano for all that money, it’s that there is no apparent protection for the Yankees.

    It seems a very one-sided player deal. I question that as to why.

  213. blake January 19th, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    “You’re telling me the $25M they won’t spend because they have to pay Soriano while he’s on the DL couldn’t have been spent on other players to improve the team?”

    whoa, you’re assuming he’s going on the DL and I never said the Yankees could just spend as much as they want….. this was an ownership decision to sign him…if it doesn’t work out then I don’t see them tying Cashman’s hands due to a signing that he apparently advised against.

    My point wasn’t that the Yankees should overpay everyone and have a $300 million dollar payroll because they can, my point was that if the guys paying the bill are comfortable with the risk the why shouldn’t we be.

  214. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    Closers next year
    Heath Bell SD 34 years old
    Jonathan Broxton LAD 27
    Matt Capps MIN 27
    Francisco Cordero CIN * 38
    Ryan Franklin STL 39
    Brad Lidge PHI * 35
    Ryan Madson PHI 31
    Joe Nathan MIN * 37
    Jonathan Papelbon BOS 31
    Francisco Rodriguez NYM * 30
    Jose Valverde DET 34
    Joel Zumaya DET 27

    Soriano might be one of the younger/better options on the market next year.
    +++++++++++++++
    I’d be very happy with Madson or Zumaya (if healthy).

  215. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    “Yes, and owners won’t break payroll. Which means that the price players are paid does matter”.

    **************

    Fair enough. As long as fans realize the load of crap they are being sold.

  216. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    “Boras knows he will run a huge risk if the Yankees are not among bidders,a nd I think the Yankees can force his hand to stay and not exercise opt out in year 1.”

    ————–

    because Boras clients don’t always opt out?

    If Soriano pitches well, he is opting out.

    You know what alot of closers on the free agent market ALSO means?

    It means alot of teams just lost their closer and need a new one.
    _______________
    I’ve a contract for Madson ready to sign then and be a happy camper.

  217. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    “my point was that if the guys paying the bill are comfortable with the risk the why shouldn’t we be.”

    ———–

    ok, I agree with that.

    But just because they are comfortable with the risk doesn’t mean they are willing to spend an extra $25M because the risk didn’t go well.

  218. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 9:17 pm

    BD–Look at all those teams that will need a closer and tell me who will pay more than the Yankees?

  219. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 9:17 pm

    Bojo,

    again, the best scenario that can happen for the Yankees is that Soriano opts out.

    It’s not about that. It’s not about who is available next year.

    It’s about what happens if Soriano has a bad year or gets hurt.

  220. blake January 19th, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    “But just because they are comfortable with the risk doesn’t mean they are willing to spend an extra $25M because the risk didn’t go well.”

    We don’t know if they would or not but we also don’t know for sure that they’ll even need to.

  221. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    BD–

    If he has a bad year or gets hurt, we are screwed. But we would be under the terms of a more normal contract as well…My point is that the terms of the contract are not that bad. If we had to grant him flexibility to opt out in order to sign him (even if not necessary), then it is no big deal. There will be others to replace him.

    Bottom line=the terms of the contract are meaningless, and not something to get upset about.

  222. CB January 19th, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    Soriano had the year of his career this past season. He was great.

    Despite that he couldn’t get a deal to his liking. Think about that.

    What parameters would be required to give him more leverage in the future than he did coming off this season?

    He’s only going to be a year older. And he’s not going to be able to pick up saves.

    In 2010 he did everything he possibly could under his control to maximize his value. But that wasn’t good enough to get what he wanted.

    I wouldn’t assume that his decision to opt out will only be determined by how well he pitches this season. Almost by definition he cannot be better this coming season than he was this past season, if only due to the change in role and his age.

    The key variable for Soriano in the future is demand. It’s whether or not a big market team develops a very serious perceived need for a closer.

    It’s not up to Soriano and his performance alone anymore.

  223. Joe from Long Island January 19th, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    This blog has a number of good posters. You guys have come up with a number of scenarios where Soriano’s contract can work for the Yankees. Any number of “stuff” can happen over time.

    Like blake said, when Soriano comes in with men on base and a good hitter up, I don’t think anyone will be b******* about the contract. And that will happen in spades when the wins start accumulating.

    Just like people are fond of saying that’s it’s all about the Benjamins….. it’s all about the Ws.

  224. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    blake,

    I also question whether it was a necessary risk.

    was some other team offering Soriano more $$ and the only way he signs with the Yankees is if they give him these opt outs?

    I don’t know, maybe. It’s possible. But I sure didn’t hear about any rumors in the media. the Soriano market was dead quiet.

  225. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    In fact, the terms with the opt-out are actually pretty ingenious, because they can net us back 2 picks, while filling the 2011 gap, and giving our kids more time to develop.

  226. CB January 19th, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    “It seems a very one-sided player deal. I question that as to why.”

    Unilateral options in contracts are almost by definition completely one sided.

    And that’s what Soriano has.

    So in that regard, the contract is one sided.

  227. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    If Mo gets hurt Soriano’s contract will look pretty sweet won’t it.

  228. BD (Boston Dave) January 19th, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    “In fact, the terms with the opt-out are actually pretty ingenious,”

    ——–

    and with that piece of wisdom…. I’m off to watch some Battlestar Gallactica on Netflix.

  229. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    If Mo gets hurt Soriano’s contract will look pretty sweet won’t it

    If Mo gets hurt this season. During the season. After which Soriano will immediately opt out.

  230. GreenBeret7 January 19th, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    Anybody remember who the #1 and #2 draft picks were in 1966?

    Steve Chilcott (Mets) Reggie Jackson (A).

    NYYs have had more luck with the later round draft picks than the early rounds…Round #19 in 1979 (Mattingly) and Round #22 of the 1990 draft (Pettitte). Posada was a round #24 pick in 1990.

    Like the old scouts say, computers can’t grade heart.

  231. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    “Cashman’s decision to go public with his disagreements “were a sign of larger disputes within the Yankee front office,” says CBSSports.com’s Danny Knobler. Sources in the Yankee organization tell Knobler that ownership wasn’t pleased with recent Cashman acquisitions like Randy Winn, Javier Vazquez and Nick Johnson”. — MLBTR

    Duh! Neither was I Knobler!

  232. ctyankeefan. January 19th, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    From MLBTR.com
    “Johnny Damon is still drawing some interest from the Yankees, in part because the team thinks Damon could help getting A.J. Burnett back in form, tweets Jon Heyman of Sports Illustrated. Heyman notes that the Yankees can’t offer Damon the playing time that he could find with the Angels and Rays.”

    Does this make sense to anyone? Because I don’t get the part where Damon will help AJ get back to form…

  233. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    If Mo gets hurt Soriano’s contract will look pretty sweet won’t it

    If Mo gets hurt this season. During the season. After which Soriano will immediately opt out.

    ***************

    Why would he opt out? Who is going to pay him more?

  234. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    The way Levine structured the deal, it is almost as if the Yankees want Soriano to walk after one year….and I can understand why. If you look at Brackman as a possible heir apparent, they would want to give hm a year aas EIG before Mo retires. If that option doesn’t work, there is Madson (who I think could be just as good as Soriano). They feel confident enough in being able to outbid others that they really like the 1 year deal in general, so this is just a way as to make it look good to the player as well.

  235. 108 stitches January 19th, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    The Yankees can’t operate on “ifs”. There’s enough of those on a daily basis. A runner can get hurt sliding into a bag. A pitcher can get hurt falling off a slippery mound for a simple fielding play.
    If this – if that.

  236. blake January 19th, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    BD,

    yea I don’t know. Its an overpay no doubt about it but if he helps the Yankees win the WS in 2011 then that’s all they care about.

    CB,

    If Pettite does retire (I think he’s coming back at some point) but if he does and they hold the line with Joba in the bullpen, then who do you like as that 5th starter? Guy from within (Phelps, Brackman, Mitre, etc) or do you sign one of the Millwoodish guys out there?

  237. Nick in SF January 19th, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    “I don’t think the more scratch tickets you have the better your chances are of winning. Each ticket has it’s own chance. Same with draft picks.”

    I think you’re wrong on that statistically.

    If you flip a coin once, you have a 50/50 shot of it coming up heads.

    If you flip the coin a hundred times, your chances of it coming up heads at least once are excellent. If you get tails the first 99 times, your odds of getting heads the 100th time are still 50/50, but your overall chances are quite good.

    Same with scratcher tickets: buying multiple tickets won’t increase your odds of winning on any individual ticket but your overall chances of getting at least one winning ticket go up as you buy more tickets.

    Why did Veruca Salt’s father buy so many Wonka Bars? To increase the odds that one of them would contain a Golden Ticket. His gamble paid off.

    So, drafting 8 players won’t affect the odds on a particular one of them panning out, but the more players you draft, the better chances that at least one of them will become a productive commodity down the road.

  238. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    ctyankeefan. January 19th, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    From MLBTR.com
    “Johnny Damon is still drawing some interest from the Yankees, in part because the team thinks Damon could help getting A.J. Burnett back in form, tweets Jon Heyman of Sports Illustrated. Heyman notes that the Yankees can’t offer Damon the playing time that he could find with the Angels and Rays.”

    Does this make sense to anyone? Because I don’t get the part where Damon will help AJ get back to form…
    +++++++++++++++
    Burnett will be so frightened of a ball being hit to Damon in LF that he will bear down and pitch better?

  239. blake January 19th, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    “Does this make sense to anyone? Because I don’t get the part where Damon will help AJ get back to form…”

    because watching Damon throw makes AJ feel better about himself.

  240. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    Why would he opt out? Who is going to pay him more?

    The yankees, if they have to replace Mo.

  241. GreenBeret7 January 19th, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    If Soriano opts out after 2011, Brackman will be ready to move in to that spot and take over for Rivera after 2012.

  242. CB January 19th, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    blake-

    I think Andy is going to come back. That’s just been my feeling all along. Andy threw the ball as well if not better last season than he has in his entire career.

    He actually expanded his range of tools last season. That doesn’t happen much when a player is closing out his career.

    If he does come back, I think they’ll definitely keep Joba in the pen (which I won’t be thrilled with) and they definitely won’t go with a Millwood type. The millwood type is only a direction you take if you have 2 spots open in the rotation. With only one spot, you definitely go with one of the kids.

    I think it will be a competition but one in which the job is Nova’s to lose.

  243. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    Why did A-rod opt out, who was going to pay him more?

    Boras clients always exercise opt outs.

  244. blake January 19th, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    If Soriano opts out and they need a closer then they will have several to choose from…they wouldn’t have to re-sign him.

  245. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    Soriano is a proven stud. Brackman has proven nothing.

  246. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    The more I think about how the Yankees love 1 year deals (because they know they can outbid the market on any player they really want), the easier it is to like the contract they gave to Soriano.

  247. 108 stitches January 19th, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    Like the old scouts say, computers can’t grade heart.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    And ain’t that the truth. One of the more prominent truisms in all of baseball. Scouts can’t very often grade it on their reports unless they’ve seen many examples before a contract is offered.

  248. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    Well ok, he can technically opt out and then re-sign with the Yankees for $14 million.

  249. tyanksfan36 January 19th, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    How will Brackman ever prove himself if no one gives him a chance. Everyone in baseball was unproven in their careers. Youve got to take a chance on some guys.

  250. blake January 19th, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    CB,

    That’s how I feel as well. If he retired then he would wonder for the rest of his life if he quit too soon….I hope he does, if so I think the Yankees are as good as anybody…maybe better depending on health.

  251. Nick in SF January 19th, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    “Does this make sense to anyone? Because I don’t get the part where Damon will help AJ get back to form.”

    Damon saved Phil Hughes’ career, why couldn’t he do the same for AJ?

  252. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    If Brackman is throwing 98 MOH from 6’11″ with a killer curve and control, he’ll make a chance for himself.

  253. GreenBeret7 January 19th, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    What did that kid…what’s his name? Rivera prove before 1996? Oakland has had no issues putting rookies in as closers..with great success….over the years. Boston gave the closer’s job to a rookie.

  254. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    Nick in SF -

    I stand corrected. Well, I’m sitting, but you understand. :)

  255. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    tyanksfan36 January 19th, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    How will Brackman ever prove himself if no one gives him a chance. Everyone in baseball was unproven in their careers. You’ve got to take a chance on some guys.

    ******************

    You don’t just hand the closer job to Brackman or assume he will be any good at it IMO. Not with someone like Soriano, or a Soria who have proven themselves around. You give Brackman his shot in the 6th and 7th and see how dominant his stuff is and if he has the mental toughness to close. Then promote him.

  256. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    Well ok, he can technically opt out and then re-sign with the Yankees for $14 million.

    The Yankees shouldn’t pay for a non-rivera closer. They’re too volatile.

  257. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    Some closer’s can last a long time.

  258. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    Some closer’s can last a long time.

    Not at the level Rivera provides. And its his performance which makes him worth it.

  259. CB January 19th, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    GB7-

    When Brackman was drafted I remember posting about him being a potential closer candidate for the team down the road.

    His age, rawness, injury all made it seem like the bull pen may be the most practical route to get him to the majors, particularly given how his contract was structured. I think he’ll likely at least start his major league career out of the pen.

    I’m looking forward to how he progresses this season. Last year I was just hoping he could get more innings and find the plate.

    This season I’m hoping that he’ll be able to unleash more of his physical talent while still maintaining the command he found last season.

    That’s the big question remaining on him. Can how much can he leverage his physical gifts while still throwing the ball with command?

  260. Gary January 19th, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    Doreen, are you still out to make trouble :-)

  261. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    I would love to see how well Brackman can pick up the cutter from Mo.

  262. randy l. January 19th, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    “So, drafting 8 players won’t affect the odds on a particular one of them panning out, but the more players you draft, the better chances that at least one of them will become a productive commodity down the road.”

    nick in sf-

    you have nothing more to learn with coin flipping.

    time to move you up to the next level.

  263. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    Some closer’s can last a long time.

    Not at the level Rivera provides. And its his performance which makes him worth it.

    *****************

    And maybe Soriano at 31 will be a stud for the next 5-6 years and worth $14-15 million a year. You never know.

  264. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 9:49 pm

    Gary -

    Nah, I’m done for the night. Surprised I’m still awake, actually. :)

  265. Nick in SF January 19th, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    The odds are better that Soriano has a single great year than three great years.

    We’d better hope that great year comes first and then Soriano opts out and goes elsewhere.

    I wish there was an opt-out clause in case he has a strong spring training. :?

  266. ericns1 January 19th, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    I want Mo to pitch until he is 100!

  267. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    And maybe Soriano at 31 will be a stud for the next 5-6 years and worth $14-15 million a year. You never know.

    Yea but not likely.

  268. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    God forbids Mo suffers a career ending injury. At his age, it’s possible. I’m glad Soriano is on this team and hopefully a the end of the season he will have bonded with the guys and want to come back if we pay him. If he performs as expected.

    There is no practical difference to the Yankees in paying him $11 million or $14 million. It’s chicken feed to the Yankees. Igawa didn’t hurt a thing, this team can absorb a financial mistake.

  269. GreenBeret7 January 19th, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    CB, Brackman was a mess in his starts in Charleston back in 2009. The put him into the bullpen at the end of his stay there. He allowed 4 hits, 1 or 2 runs, 1 walk and about 10 strikeouts in in 10 games. I have no idea what fixed his control, but in 2010, control was never an issue. His real issue was throwing errors to 1st base and wild pitches. He seems to have gotten that under control. I’ve been saying for 2 years that he is a born closer…very Gossage like. Intimidation out the kazoo.

  270. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    There is no practical difference to the Yankees in paying him $11 million or $14 million.

    Risk, length of deal, options or no options. That money not going towards any of the other issues the Yankees may have.

  271. randy l. January 19th, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    all i know is the blog came to life once soriano signed.

    hopefully he’ll have a similar effect on the yankees and the bullpen.

  272. GreenBeret7 January 19th, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    Brackman in 2010 and 140 innings…39 walks and 126 strikeouts and keeps the ball in the park. 1 homer every 18 innings.

  273. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 19th, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    “The Yankees future is actually very bright. You just refuse to see it.”

    For a change…

    :)

  274. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    Risk, length of deal, options or no options. A competent GM will/should make the best deal possible, sure. But if we eat a year when someone is injured, it matters not. Only on blogs does it matter. It doesn’t matter to a $2 billion dollar team with $400-450 million in annual revenues who leads the league in attendance.

  275. DocTodd January 19th, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    Receptionist:”AJ, Dr.Damon will now see you.You can make yourself comfortable on the leather couch.”

  276. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    But if we eat a year when someone is injured, it matters not. Only on blogs does it matter. It doesn’t matter to a $2 billion dollar team with $400-450 million in annual revenues who leads the league in attendance.

    Having to eat a year on an injured player matters to every team. Especially if they can’t afford to replace them or have them hanging around. Pavano infested the yankees for 4 years as did Jaret Wright. They mostly hurt instead of helped. That is a risk. Those signing s directly contributed to the poor state of the Yankee rotation that everyone is now bemoaning, and yet you are arguing for the same kind of fix that led to those signings in the first place.

    If your closer is not mariano rivera, chances are he isn’t worth whatever you’re paying him above the league minimum. As LGY pointed out, its rare for a reliever to be in the top of all relievers in back to back years.

    Teams grab setup men and obscure relievers and make them closers every year, its where new closers come from.

  277. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    # ericns1 January 19th, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    I want Mo to pitch until he is 100!

    ———————–

    No one will ever catch the save record lol

  278. Tar January 19th, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    “Unilateral options in contracts are almost by definition completely one sided.

    And that’s what Soriano has.

    So in that regard, the contract is one sided”

    To the layman like me, It seemed like the Yankees had built up some leverage. It also appeared like the Soriano market was weak, but the Yankees blinked and gave a one-sided player deal anyway.

    If I had to guess I would say Boras played up the closer having to be convinced (opt-outs) for accepting a set-up role.

    It would have been nice if the Yankees had stuck to the position that being an extremely well compensated pitcher, setting-up for Mo was the position available. The opt-outs seems like panic on the Yankee part.

    But what do I know, maybe that’s exactly what is was going to take. And he certainly makes the team better.

  279. 108 stitches January 19th, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    Brackman took a good forward step in 2010 and should add some finishing touches after ST. The finished product should be a Randy Johnson reminder of how an imposing pitcher is almost on top of a hitter with his follow through on pitches.
    Few hitters will be interested in getting too comfy at the plate with 6″ – 10″ and 240 lbs. unleashing.

  280. tyanksfan36 January 19th, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    # West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    tyanksfan36 January 19th, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    How will Brackman ever prove himself if no one gives him a chance. Everyone in baseball was unproven in their careers. You’ve got to take a chance on some guys.

    ******************

    You don’t just hand the closer job to Brackman or assume he will be any good at it IMO. Not with someone like Soriano, or a Soria who have proven themselves around. You give Brackman his shot in the 6th and 7th and see how dominant his stuff is and if he has the mental toughness to close. Then promote him.

    ____

    im not advocating putting him in the closers role right away, Im saying that you have to give him a chance as a reliever in the ML and if he excels then you put him in higher leverage situations. Luckily right now we dont need him to fulfill any role so they can choose to develop him into what they need in the future. Rivera didnt start out as a closer, starting wasnt a good fit, then he became the setup man and eventually the closer. Now, I think there is only one Rivera so its unfair to compare anyone to him but it worked out with Mo figuring where he fit best.

  281. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    It doesn’t mater as much to the Yankees. Not many teams could have ripped up $50 million dollars like the Yankees did on Kei Igawa. It didn’t stop them from spending big on Sabathia and Burnett and Teixeira.

    Pavano and Wright had no lingering effects that weren’t self inflicted. You should be drafting and developing pitchers no matter who is currently on your roster. You cannot have too much pitching. Vazquez stunk for a year – now he’s gone. The $13 million didn’t matter.

    You don’t know what relief pitcher will become at least close to a Mariano performance wise. Soriano sure was last year. Who knows what he will do in the future. All you can do is evaluate his stuff, performance and other ancillary factors like temperament and personality and go forward.

    If you can “grab an obscure reliever” and make him a closer for the Yankees. Wonderful. I’d rather “grab” a Soriano or a Soria, Bailey, Wilson, etc, if available.

  282. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 10:14 pm

    tyanksfan36 – we’re in total agreement. I’m all for seeing what Brackman can do. His upside in the minors looks great.

  283. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 10:14 pm

    One thing to consider on contracts and players, that I briefly touched on before. Baseball teams have a 40 man roster, they have to use it to protect prospects and as a source of viable replacements as well as maintain a 25 man roster. Teams cannot sign anyone they want because if too many deals turn out poorly, the 25-40 man rosters will be filled with useless players. By virtue, highly paid MLB players do not get cast aside or thrown off the 40 man until all other options are exhausted. They hang around.

  284. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    Pavano and Wright had no lingering effects that weren’t self inflicted

    They were self inflicted because the Yankees signed Pavano and Wright. Giving both of those risky players long term deals meant that they spent every year with a guaranteed rotation spot, sat on the 40 man roster, or otherwise stunk it up.

    There are only 5 rotation spots. And limited bullpen spots/high leverage situations. For every guy you have that you are forced to run out there, its one less opportunity for a developed player to shine.

  285. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    No question, managing the 25 and 40-man rosters is an important job for a general manager and you bring up a good point, no question. But there are expendable players sitting there on the 40 we all know that. It depends on the player you want to acquire, how good they are and what the team’s needs are. If you need a closer and you can get a Soriano type player, you do so.

  286. Mike_Boston January 19th, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    CB January 19th, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    I think Andy is going to come back. That’s just been my feeling all along. Andy threw the ball as well if not better last season than he has in his entire career.

    He actually expanded his range of tools last season. That doesn’t happen much when a player is closing out his career.

    —————————————————————–
    I really hope he comes back, but Moose fits the description above.

  287. CB January 19th, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    “Brackman in 2010 and 140 innings…39 walks and 126 strikeouts and keeps the ball in the park. 1 homer every 18 innings.”

    GB7-

    He was great in all those categories. Way outperformed any reasonable expectation coming off his 2009 (though as you point out now and did even back then – the close to his 2009 when he went to the pen was encouraging.)

    He completely turned it around.

    This season what I’d like to see from his is to become less hitable. Perhaps it was just a fluke but Brackman gave up more hits last year than I would have expected given how he did in other areas.

    Just my sense – but I think after 2009 Brackman was probably so focused on throwing strikes that he may have been catching too much of the plate and/ or being too cautious with unleashing his stuff.

    Watching him pitch last season – he just seemed to be keeping things under wraps some. I completely understand that because he had so many troubles in 2009 just throwing strikes. But I just got the sense he was unleashing what he could do fully.

    As is – he looks like he’s going to be a good pitcher. But how good is going to depend on how much he uncorks his physical gifts to become more difficult to hit.

  288. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 10:20 pm

    Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    They were self inflicted because the Yankees signed Pavano and Wright.

    *******

    Yes, exactly. You know what I think of some of Cashman’s moves. You have to make the right ones more often than not, that’s all. That’s your job as a GM. Soriano to me is the right move.

  289. CB January 19th, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    “I really hope he comes back, but Moose fits the description above.”

    mike-

    When I was writing that post Moose popped into my head. Clearly he was an exception.

    At the same time it’s a little different. Andy hasn’t really lost any of his stuff. If anything I thought his cutter last season was as good as we’ve ever seen it. On top of that he added new wrinkles like that slow curve, particularly to RH batters over the outside corner.

    But Andy’s basic stuff was still intact. On top of that he added things. With Moose he added things – but that was part of a process of complete reinvention. And he had to engage in reinvention because he just lost his power stuff completely.

  290. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    Dinner, peace, thanks, out.

  291. GreenBeret7 January 19th, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    CB, Brackman does have a habit of giving up bleeders and bloopers. Although the hits were high, he was limiting the damage by keeping the walks and homers to a minimum. As you said, this coming season, at the upper levels should determine whether it was 2009 or 2010 that was his level of talent. A tighter infield will certainly help him. A lot of grounders.

  292. Mike_Boston January 19th, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    You’re right CB, there is a difference between reinventing and expanding. Moose walking away never really computed with me. Why leave after 1 of your best seasons of your career, not even making the post season? I know he wasn’t exactly a clubhouse all star, but missing out on that ’09 title had to have killed him.

  293. MConti January 19th, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    very cool spot on MLB Network with Kevin Long showing the two drills he does with A-Rod and Cano. The Cano drill is well known, “home run drill” but the A-Rod drill was good as well.

    A-Rod uses a “short bat” about 30in v his normal 34in and it weighs about 39-40oz v 32 which is all designed to keep him more compact to the ball. Very interesting stuff.

    I think John Kruk is comparing the 2011 Red Sox to the 1927 Yankees

  294. MConti January 19th, 2011 at 10:35 pm

    meant add on ESPN after the Kruk comment. Completely different programming between the two networks

  295. GreenBeret7 January 19th, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    If Pettitte comes back, I think that it’s mid-late May when the weather warms up. I think that groin pull was a lot deeper than he let on and may have caused some of his late season back issues…perhaps because he wasn’t able to do his normal work.

  296. GreenBeret7 January 19th, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    Mussina said on “Yankee Magazine” today that before the 2008 season, he and his family had fully determined to retire after the season. He just never expected that type of season, but, his mind was made up that it was his last season.

  297. Mike_Boston January 19th, 2011 at 10:43 pm

    Interesting to know that GB. Makes a little more sense now…

  298. GreenBeret7 January 19th, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    Mussina didn’t appear to have any regrets about 2009. Looks like he’s lost weight and that graying beard really makes him look old and grizzled.

  299. Mike_Boston January 19th, 2011 at 10:53 pm

    Who’s got the better shot at HOF, Moose or Andy? They both deserve it IMO.

  300. GreenBeret7 January 19th, 2011 at 10:56 pm

    Mussina, if Pettitte doesn’t pith for the next 2 years. Two normal Pettitte seasons would give him nearly identical career numbers as Mussina, except in ERA (about .25 ERA higher).

  301. GreenBeret7 January 19th, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    Mussina would have Pettitte in complete games and shutouts, too.

  302. blake January 19th, 2011 at 10:59 pm

    Moose has better career numbers and no PED links so right now probably him

  303. GreenBeret7 January 19th, 2011 at 11:01 pm

    Mussina’s PED was nasty attitude

  304. blake January 19th, 2011 at 11:04 pm

    Gb,

    Yes, voters don’t mind that ;) I think if Andy could get to the 265-270 win range with a similar ERA then he’ll have a shot one day.

  305. Mike_Boston January 19th, 2011 at 11:04 pm

    That’s another reason why Andy would want to come back. His numbers are just about there 10 more wins could push him over.

  306. Mike_Boston January 19th, 2011 at 11:08 pm

    GB, did his attitude come up at all in that interview?

  307. ML January 19th, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    I don’t think either will get in, but Mussina is definitely closer than Andy. Mussina never won a title, but he was a dominant pitcher for a longer stretch than Andy. After his great 96, when I thought he should have been Cy Young, Andy didn’t have many seasons where you could say he was clearly dominant and pitching at a HOF level. I love Andy but I think if you’re rating their careers at this point you’d have to say that Mussina’s was better overall.

  308. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 11:14 pm

    SIGN JOHNNY DAMON :-)

    (Thank you and Good night Yankee people!)

  309. sommerjd January 19th, 2011 at 11:15 pm

    I can understand where Cashman’s coming from: why would he want to receive a photo of Andy’s genitals on his cell phone?

  310. Pat M. January 19th, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    Mussina around 2020-2021…….Pettite would need to go 30- 15 to close out his career and even then it’d be maybe 15 years after he hung them up…..

  311. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 11:50 pm

    Oh please, Damon as a security blanket for AJ? That’s the most pathetic thing I’ve ever heard.

    Um, Hal and co. were not happy with Cash’s signings, they should have said no. Javy was brought here to be a #4, not a #1 – and he was coming off an amazing year. Who in the FO was unhappy with signing him to be a buffer for Phil ? Were they psychic or is it just now, after Javy fell apart, that they want to make Cash the fall guy for that.

    BD, I agree about the opt outs being bad, but as I said I assume Cash agreed to them as a sign of protest against the deal.

  312. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 11:52 pm

    So we should just throw Brackman in the deep end of the pen as a reliever? If he’s going to start in the pen, he has to start in very low leverage situations………..Out of all 3 B’s, he’s the guy I’ve little interest in.

  313. Pat M. January 19th, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    Betsy……Javy was brought in because they lost faith and trust in Joba Chamberlain, that’s why Javy came to The Bronx……And had they not screwed up Wang’s rehab we wouldn’t have this mess today……

  314. Betsy January 20th, 2011 at 12:01 am

    I think Cash fired a salvo to his owners today by being so brutally honest. I just have a feeling that he won’t cry if he gets fired or if he’s not re-signed because I have a feeling this was one of the straws that will possibly breakthe camel’s back. Just because we’re not hearing about it doesn’t mean that Hal and Hank and Levine are not becoming the interfering types along the lines of George. I mean, Randy Levine? The GM is supposed to be head of baseball operations, not the President of the team. Cash will get another job and very quickly. He seems to want to work with a lower payroll to prove himself – maybe he should just go.

  315. UnKnown January 20th, 2011 at 12:02 am

    So whats the big deal. The Yankees are basically on a one year deal with Soriano. If he ends up needing to be the closer in 2012 he should be getting more money than he will be making in 2011.

    How about we finish up this 162 game season plus Post-Season Appearance and then worry about next years hot stove at that time.

  316. Betsy January 20th, 2011 at 12:02 am

    Pat M, I’m not getting into Wang at all……..forget that. Javy was brought in because having him as the #4 starter would ease the pressure on Phil. Regardless, it was a good move that turned out badly…………and if the others in the FO are now complaining, I think they’re hypocrites because I doubt they were upset at the time.

  317. Against All Odds January 20th, 2011 at 12:04 am

    # Pat M. January 19th, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    Betsy……Javy was brought in because they lost faith and trust in Joba Chamberlain, that’s why Javy came to The Bronx……And had they not screwed up Wang’s rehab we wouldn’t have this mess today……

    ————————-

    Yankees still paying for Wang’s injury. Who knew that would throw everything off in the following yrs. If Wang is on the team pitching like he did in 06/07 the Yankees aren’t as desperate for Lee. If Wang is here the need for Andy isn’t as huge. Do they even get involved in the Haren trade talk….probably not. Does Javy get a second chance in Bronx….probably not.

  318. Betsy January 20th, 2011 at 12:04 am

    I’m no fan of Joba, but any team that gives up on a kid (whether it’s Joba, Phil or whomever) after 1 season really has no clue. We’re supposed to believe now that they will have patience with other young pitchers?

  319. Nat January 20th, 2011 at 12:43 am

    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play......id=7417714

    The Kevin Long segment.

  320. Nick in SF January 20th, 2011 at 12:58 am

    No fan of Joba????? :mad:

  321. Pat M. January 20th, 2011 at 1:56 am

    I smell the Hump Randy Levine…….

  322. UnKnown January 20th, 2011 at 2:03 am

    K. Long is a stud. Love that guy.

  323. Nick in SF January 20th, 2011 at 2:26 am

    Tiger Woods is tweeting now?????

    This can’t end well.

    @perkinswaitress

  324. Jerkface January 20th, 2011 at 2:35 am

    I’m so happy they put that segment on mlb.com, this lack of mlb network is killing me. Love Robbie’s HR drill.

  325. West Coast Yankee Fan January 20th, 2011 at 3:24 am

    “Didn’t think would see stranger NY-area presser for while than Cashman dissing signing of Soriano at Soriano introduction to Yankees.” – Joel Sherman Tweet

  326. Sweet Swinging Cano January 20th, 2011 at 4:22 am

    Obviously Cash was being humorous here. Of course people get worked up about it.

  327. Sweet Swinging Cano January 20th, 2011 at 4:26 am

    The Yankees at times are stuck in no mans land. The pressure to win is greater then any other franchise can imagine. They want to build up the farm,(which they have) but it is oh so tempting to trade guys away to win now. It really is a thin line. I think they have done a good job considering.

  328. Doreen January 20th, 2011 at 6:35 am

    Good morning, morning people.

  329. Mike Ri January 20th, 2011 at 6:41 am

    Good Morning Everyone !

    A few notes from mlbtraderumors.com –

    For the Johnny Damon Lovers — a glimmer of hope ! ( I still think A Jones will be our man )

    Johnny Damon is still drawing some interest from the Yankees, in part because the team thinks Damon could help getting A.J. Burnett back in form, tweets Jon Heyman of Sports Illustrated. Heyman notes that the Yankees can’t offer Damon the playing time that he could find with the Angels and Rays.

    And of course news from the bottom of the pitching barrel ——–

    Justin Duchscherer recently held private workout sessions for two American League clubs, tweets ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick. The Yankees, known to be interested in the right-hander, weren’t one of the two teams. The Pirates, Red Sox and Athletics (Duchscherer’s former club) have all expressed some degree of interest in the free agent hurler this winter.

  330. upstate kate January 20th, 2011 at 6:50 am

    good morning early birds!
    well I guess we don’t have to worry about Pavano returning

  331. Doreen January 20th, 2011 at 6:53 am

    I don’t understand what Damon has to do with getting AJ back to form. Anyone?

  332. Jerkface January 20th, 2011 at 7:07 am

    I don’t understand what Damon has to do with getting AJ back to form. Anyone?

    Takes an idiot to fix an idiot?

  333. Nick in SF January 20th, 2011 at 7:17 am

    Damon can easily fix AJ:

    http://yankees.lhblogs.com/201.....nt-1692358

  334. upstate kate January 20th, 2011 at 7:20 am

    I don’t understand the connection. Has Damon turned into a pitching coach in his free time? Or perhaps a life coach? Or is this a rumor Erica has started for her own purposes?

  335. upstate kate January 20th, 2011 at 7:21 am

    are we in some kind of time warp today? Both Nick and Jerkface here in the morning?

  336. Nick in SF January 20th, 2011 at 7:29 am

    True Fact #1: Phil Hughes was floundering before Damon inspired the Young Master to greatness. The results: a World Series title.

    True Fact #2: Damon whispered some quick pitching tips to the Yanks’ most successful pitcher of 2009, a certain Nick Swisher. A scoreless frame followed.

  337. Nick in SF January 20th, 2011 at 7:34 am

    On the other hand, I agree that I should be asleep.

  338. upstate kate January 20th, 2011 at 7:35 am

    well by all means then lets get Johnny back to whisper sweet nothings to AJ

  339. Doreen January 20th, 2011 at 7:44 am

    I’m just having a difficult time thinking that anyone from the Yankees would actually say that out loud, whether it’s something they kicked around amongst themselves or not.

  340. blake January 20th, 2011 at 7:44 am

    Not only can Damon revive AJs career…he’s better than Andrew Jones. Win/win.

  341. blake January 20th, 2011 at 7:45 am

    Doreen,

    Im guessing that part is Heyman speculation mostly.

  342. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 7:46 am

    It absolutely amazes me that Cashman would even consider a guy like Pavano for the Yankees after his time here.

    With that kind of thinking he should re-sign Igawa.

    And while he’s at it he should go out and get Manny, Milledge, and milton Bradley (after he is finished with prison).

    And definitely bring big Z to round things out.

    I thought this guy was big into “character”, not “characters”.

    Oh well. He has been doing all sorts of puzzling things this OS IMO.

    I’m glad there is more than one opinion in Yankeland.

  343. Mell January 20th, 2011 at 7:48 am

    “Not only can Damon revive AJs career…he’s better than Andrew Jones.”

    I think you’re half right. He’s probably better than Jones.

  344. blake January 20th, 2011 at 7:49 am

    Mell,

    Half right is.better than no right ;)

  345. Mell January 20th, 2011 at 7:51 am

    Blake:

    Agreed. That said, I have no idea where this “Damon will somehow make Burnett better” horsebleep comes from.

  346. upstate kate January 20th, 2011 at 7:52 am

    please MTU, all the Pavano talk is so yesterday :) Try to keep up!

  347. blake January 20th, 2011 at 7:54 am

    Mell,

    Heyman….

  348. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 7:54 am

    Kate-

    Mercifully. I will try my best.

  349. blake January 20th, 2011 at 7:56 am

    MTU,

    Wait, you don’t like Pavano.

  350. Mell January 20th, 2011 at 7:56 am

    “Heyman….”

    Heyman’s had himself a pretty good winter (mystery Phils and Soriano) but this is just plain baseless.

  351. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 7:57 am

    Blake-

    Let’s just say I’m not a fan.

    :)

  352. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 7:59 am

    Mell-

    It does begin with the letter “B” but it aint “baseless”.

    :)

  353. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 8:01 am

    It was reported yesterday that the Duke threw for 2 AL teams but the Yankees were not one of them.

    Guess they are not interested.

  354. Mell January 20th, 2011 at 8:02 am

    “It does begin with the letter “B” but it aint “baseless”.”

    Right on, MTU. But this is a family forum.

  355. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 8:03 am

    It is time to reap what we have sown.

    And to harvest some of the grain from our farm.

    :)

  356. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 8:04 am

    Mell-

    Yup. Last I checked it was still rated PG.

    ;)

  357. Doreen January 20th, 2011 at 8:06 am

    blake -

    It’s just irresponsible of Heyman to write such a thing, but he had to get the idea from somewhere, no?

    I really don’t like that these guys have to fill up so much space that speculative thinking gets printed and read as if it’s fact-based. Also, it seems to me that the NY media has been looking for “dirt” about the Yankees for the last many years and they’re taking whatever they can and running with it, putting everything out there in the worst light possible.

    People see the short tweets and quick sound bytes and little snippets reprinted around the internet, out of context (and worse, in a convoluted context) and immediately carry the little snippet to negative extremes.

    Unfortunately, most people don’t stop to think about the agenda of the media (or they say they do, but believe everything they read anyway).

    It doesn’t help that the Yankees have been supplying the crumbs in order for them to build their mountains out of molehills.

  358. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 8:06 am

    Looks to me like it’s Andy or the Farm to fill out the rotation.

  359. blake January 20th, 2011 at 8:07 am

    Yea Heyman has had the inside track on a lot of things this winter and give credit to him…..but he’s still the king of speculation.

  360. Jerkface January 20th, 2011 at 8:08 am

    Heyman’s had himself a pretty good winter (mystery Phils

    -

    But heyman specifically denied it was the phils :(

  361. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 8:09 am

    Doreen-

    Out here we have real mountains, and prairie dogs create the molehills.

    Maybe I need to take some of these reporters on a “tour” of the desert.

    ;)

  362. Doreen January 20th, 2011 at 8:14 am

    MTU -

    Sounds good to me!

    :)

  363. Betsy January 20th, 2011 at 8:16 am

    That’s another thing about Cash’s comments – way to make Soriano feel welcome by, as Sherman said, “dissing the signing”

  364. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 8:17 am

    Is anyone else as impressed with Kevin Long as I am ?

    We are incredibly lucky to have him.

    Can’t wait to se what he can do with Martin.

    And I am looking forward to the new Jeter swing.

    Not to mention him and Jesus.

    :)

  365. Mell January 20th, 2011 at 8:19 am

    “Is anyone else as impressed with Kevin Long as I am ?”

    No. Never bought that he was anything special. Don’t think he’s bad. Just think he fills a highly overrated position.

  366. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 8:20 am

    Mell-

    I couldn’t disagree with you more.

  367. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 8:23 am

    Mell-

    I just hope Rothschild turns out to be half as good.

  368. Mell January 20th, 2011 at 8:23 am

    MTU:

    I gathered as much. :)

  369. upstate kate January 20th, 2011 at 8:25 am

    Soriano and Cashman were all smiles shaking hands yesterday at the presser. I am sure as long as So gets his paycheck he doesn’t really care…and since he needed an interpreter, he probably doesn’t even know what was said.

  370. Crawdaddy January 20th, 2011 at 8:26 am

    “That’s another thing about Cash’s comments – way to make Soriano feel welcome by, as Sherman said, “dissing the signing””

    How did Cashman dissed the signing?

  371. NJ Pete January 20th, 2011 at 8:27 am

    Just had an unsettling thought. Someone please refute this. Is it possible that they are looking to platoon Andrew Jones and Damon and trade Gardner for pitching?

  372. Doreen January 20th, 2011 at 8:27 am

    MTU -

    I am impressed with his dedication to the job and that he really seems to enjoy what he does. So far he’s gotten great individual results.

    The thing I’m looking for next season is a better overall approach by our great Yankee lineup when facing a junkball pitcher. But that may not be his purview. That might be advance scouting, since many of the junkball pitchers they faced were also pitchers they’d never faced at all. (They seemed not to have a problem with new pitchers who were fastball dominant.)

    ****

    Yes, Cash is an idiot who should have his lips sewn together. Personally, I’d have liked to have had the opportunity to see and hear what he said for myself instead of having it interpreted by the media. I am very disappointed that YES did not televise the Soriano introduction and the interviews afterwards. It makes no sense. They did televise the Tex, AJ & CC signings as well as the Jeter signing, no? I hardly think that people would have been upset to have a Yankees Classic interrupted. Whose decision was that?

  373. Crawdaddy January 20th, 2011 at 8:28 am

    By the way, Cashman made his comments after the presser when they broke up into little groups with direct questions to Cashman from some of the writers.

  374. Jerkface January 20th, 2011 at 8:28 am

    Is it possible that they are looking to platoon Andrew Jones and Damon and trade Gardner for pitching?

    That’s too expensive and dumb a platoon.

  375. Mell January 20th, 2011 at 8:28 am

    “How did Cashman dissed the signing?”

    He said he was against it. He thought it was a lousy allocation of resources.

  376. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 8:29 am

    As long as Mr. Soriano stays healthy I think fans that didn’t want him
    might be singin’ a different tune by season’s end.

    Did we overpay ? Yup.

    Does he have all the leverage ? Yup.

    Does any of that really matter ? Nope.

    :)

  377. Betsy January 20th, 2011 at 8:29 am

    I think Cash knows how to fake a smile, lol

  378. Jerkface January 20th, 2011 at 8:30 am

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....b_sitelist

    Doreen, you can see Cashman announcing the Soriano signing. He says nice things, but like obviously is not sold on it.

  379. Crawdaddy January 20th, 2011 at 8:30 am

    “Yes, Cash is an idiot who should have his lips sewn together. Personally, I’d have liked to have had the opportunity to see and hear what he said for myself instead of having it interpreted by the media. I am very disappointed that YES did not televise the Soriano introduction and the interviews afterwards. It makes no sense. They did televise the Tex, AJ & CC signings as well as the Jeter signing, no? I hardly think that people would have been upset to have a Yankees Classic interrupted. Whose decision was that?”

    It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out why they did it that way. Guess which Yankee executive oversees YES. First name is Randy.

  380. Betsy January 20th, 2011 at 8:30 am

    Either way, I think we will have a press conference sometime next year to introduce a new GM

  381. NJ Pete January 20th, 2011 at 8:31 am

    That?s too expensive and dumb a platoon.

    Thanks Jerkface. I feel better now.

  382. Crawdaddy January 20th, 2011 at 8:31 am

    “He said he was against it. He thought it was a lousy allocation of resources.”

    He’s right and he also said it makes the Yankees better which you conveniently forgot to mention.

  383. Crawdaddy January 20th, 2011 at 8:33 am

    “Either way, I think we will have a press conference sometime next year to introduce a new GM”

    You mean this year. Maybe so, but that depends on what happens over the next ten months.

  384. Erica in NY January 20th, 2011 at 8:33 am

    upstate kate January 20th, 2011 at 7:20 am
    I don’t understand the connection. Has Damon turned into a pitching coach in his free time? Or perhaps a life coach? Or is this a rumor Erica has started for her own purposes?

    *******

    I did not start this rumor.

  385. Jerkface January 20th, 2011 at 8:34 am

    Cashman was probably annoyed that not only did management go over his head, but instead of saying “We’re overruling you, sign Soriano” they just went out and signed Soriano, to a retarded deal.

  386. Mell January 20th, 2011 at 8:34 am

    “He’s right and he also said it makes the Yankees better which you conveniently forgot to mention.”

    I answered your question. He did say it makes them better. That wouldn’t be a “diss” in my neighborhood. That said, it’s crystal clear he was against the deal and he took his opportunity to say so.

  387. mick January 20th, 2011 at 8:34 am

    Cash must know he’s gone either way. He’s setting them up for I-Told-You-So’s…

  388. mick January 20th, 2011 at 8:35 am

    Makes for a better book…

  389. upstate kate January 20th, 2011 at 8:35 am

    ah but Erica I bet you support it!

  390. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 8:36 am

    Betsy-

    There’s things I like about Cashman and things I don’t.

    IMO he will be back if he wants to be.

    I don’t think there is any serious rift nor do I think his work is terrible.

    Who would I prefer ?

    A guy like Buck Schowalter.

    And yes, I know he is not available and he can be abraisive but IMO he knows his baseball.

  391. Betsy January 20th, 2011 at 8:37 am

    Craw yes it does, but I do think that’s how things will play out unless things drastically change. If Cashman does not feel like he can do his job without interference from not just ownership but Levine, then I don’t think he’ll want to re-sign regardless of how the Yankees do this year.

  392. Erica in NY January 20th, 2011 at 8:37 am

    upstate kate January 20th, 2011 at 8:35 am
    ah but Erica I bet you support it!

    *****************

    I support anything that leads to the return of Johnny Damon to the Yankees
    (And no Maine Yankee wherever you are, not just on Old Timers Day)

  393. Doreen January 20th, 2011 at 8:38 am

    jerkface -

    Thanks.

    I did read where he said he didn’t believe it was the best way to allocate resources. On that, I do agree with him. But didn’t he also say that signing Soriano made the Yankees better for 2011, and that there’s no denying Soriano’s talent?

    Blake also posted a more complete transcript of what Cashman said regarding Hal making this final decision – acknowledging that their viewpoints (or vantage points, rather) were different, with Hal seeing things from one point and Cash focused in on a different, perhaps smaller view. Sometimes those views won’t mesh, as here.

    I will now go look at your link. I still think the Yankees should have had their “presser” televised by their network.

  394. Crawdaddy January 20th, 2011 at 8:39 am

    “Craw yes it does, but I do think that’s how things will play out unless things drastically change. If Cashman does not feel like he can do his job without interference from not just ownership but Levine, then I don’t think he’ll want to re-sign regardless of how the Yankees do this year.”

    If you want to take that leap go ahead, but it’s much too soon from my personal perspective to come to that conclusion right now. I am concerned, but a lot can happen between now and November.

  395. Betsy January 20th, 2011 at 8:42 am

    Craw, I’m not concerned about Cash – if he wants to go, at this point, let him go. I’m more concerned about how the Yankees are running things now.

    MTU, Buck is no GM and I have no great desire to see him here again……..and it’s moot since he’s in Baltimore

  396. Erica in NY January 20th, 2011 at 8:42 am

    Kind of random-
    But those who ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country should check out today’s Google Doodle

    http://www.google.com/

  397. Mell January 20th, 2011 at 8:43 am

    Doreen:

    If anything, it was Hal/Levine who were taking the smaller view. Cashman’s view was more big picture, IMO.

    Not saying either side is right or wrong, but this deal was a quick fix and short term thinking, something the Yankees can afford to engage in like no other team. That’s not the way Cashman has been operating over the past 3-4 seasons though.

  398. Crawdaddy January 20th, 2011 at 8:45 am

    “That said, it’s crystal clear he was against the deal and he took his opportunity to say so.”

    Hell, if I was him, I would do the same thing. I wouldn’t want the rest of the baseball industry to know that I gave such a horrible contract to a reliever. Just the other day, Olney was getting quotes from other baseball GM’s questioning why the Yankees would do such a bad contract. Cashman wanted to make sure that others in the industry don’t dare come to him expecting the same kind of sweetheart deal.

  399. mick January 20th, 2011 at 8:46 am

    MTU, Buck is no GM and I have no great desire to see him here again……..and it’s moot since he’s in Baltimore
    ========================
    Have to agree….Buck would not take orders from above….not exactly a diplomat or people person either.

  400. mick January 20th, 2011 at 8:47 am

    Cash has been shooting from the hip, unlike his usual stealth self.
    Going for broke in his walk year.

  401. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 8:48 am

    Maybe not, but for me, I’d like to see less diplomat and more baseball person.

    That’s my bias.

    Ain’t happening anyway.

  402. mick January 20th, 2011 at 8:50 am

    If the Steins want to create their “own” operation they will fire Cash.
    The farm has the pitching, maybe they go in that direction, more of a baseball man.

  403. Doreen January 20th, 2011 at 8:52 am

    jerkface -

    Just watched and then read the accompanying story by Brian Hoch regarding Cashman’s stand on the signing.

    I thought it was a fair article and Levine’s and Cashman’s words speak for themselves. It sure didn’t sound like a huge divide. The thing is, I agree with both sides of this – I agree that and EIG should not get closer money and that the policy the last few years of using internal arms to fill those spots has worked very well. But I also see where ownership would want to still make a splash by signing Soriano, because he is good at what he does and because the need for a shut-down bullpen is apparent with possibly 2 starting spots going to relative unknowns. I can understand their not wanting to risk waiting until something better comes along in 2011.

    I don’t feel that it undermines the overall thinking of Cashman and others to streamline the budget, build the farm, get younger and more athetic. I think it is a one time reaction to the set of circumstances that they find themselves in at this particular point in time. A reaction, but not an over-reaction.

  404. Mell January 20th, 2011 at 8:54 am

    “Cashman wanted to make sure that others in the industry don’t dare come to him expecting the same kind of sweetheart deal.”

    I agree. Of course, on the other hand, so outwardly disagreeing with a deal that got done anyway, might encourage those who are not be able to work something out with Cashman to run up the back stairway to Levine and see if it can be worked out on that front.

  405. randy l. January 20th, 2011 at 8:54 am

    “are we in some kind of time warp today? Both Nick and Jerkface here in the morning?”

    nick is just sleep walking and is really sleeping while typing, but shouldn’t there be a jerkfree zone?

    i mean there should be some consideration for people who haven’t had their coffee yet :)

  406. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 8:56 am

    I’m not advocating they dump Cashman.

    He’s got his strong points as well as his weak ones.

    He’s done some things well, and others not.

    My bias is towards more of a baseball guy, and less of a Sabre type.

    That’s all I’m sayin.

    Other people prefer the more mathematically oriented GM’s.

  407. Doreen January 20th, 2011 at 8:56 am

    Mell -

    Yah, I know what you mean – difficult to express what I was trying to say. Cashman looking overall and long term budget-wise, farm system-wise. But Hal having the bigger view in terms of the immediate product on the field.

    Hey, George did it all the time, right? And isn’t that what a lot of people have wished for lately – more George-like maneuverings? ;)

  408. Erin January 20th, 2011 at 8:56 am

    So because Cash got overruled on a deal, he’s on the way out? I agree with MTU-if he wants to be back after this season, he’ll be back.

  409. Crawdaddy January 20th, 2011 at 8:59 am

    “I agree. Of course, on the other hand, so outwardly disagreeing with a deal that got done anyway, might encourage those who are not be able to work something out with Cashman to run up the back stairway to Levine and see if it can be worked out on that front.”

    Which again, might have been another motivation why Cashman was so vocal yesterday so that perhaps Cashman and his bosses can discuss what happened and come to an understanding to prevent future public disagreements.

  410. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 9:00 am

    Erin-

    Careful.

    Agreeing with me can have serious consequences.

    I advise you against in the future.

    :)

  411. Doreen January 20th, 2011 at 9:01 am

    Hey, MTU, have you ever gone spelunking?

    My husband left for Connecticut this morning. His company is doing an off-site team-building exercise that involves exploring some cave in Connecticut. I can’t tell you how thrilled I am by this. Last year it was rappelling in Arkansas.

  412. upstate kate January 20th, 2011 at 9:01 am

    those wishing for more George-like maneuverings must be thinking of George in his later years

    Randy
    actually I enjoy both Jerkface and Nick’s posts, and I have had several cups of coffee, so I am prepared :)

  413. Erin January 20th, 2011 at 9:02 am

    MTU-thanks for the warning. ;)

  414. Erin January 20th, 2011 at 9:02 am

    New Post- Pinch hitting: Joe Nicoletti

    :arrow:

  415. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 9:04 am

    Doreen-

    I’ve been to Carlsbad Caverns and others. No formal gear though.

    Does that qualify ?

    It’s nothing to worry about. The worst thing that is likely to befall him is stepping in some bat guano.

    :)

  416. randy l. January 20th, 2011 at 9:05 am

    “Cash has been shooting from the hip, unlike his usual stealth self.”

    it was the rappelling thing getting in touch with his inner elf .

    he is now a stealth elf.

    brian’s big mistake in the closed door meetings over soriano was saying to randy levine: ” you don’t have the courage to trust the kids down on the farm. matter of fact you are a big chicken. a big fat chicken. i’d like to see you drag your fat butt over the edge of a skyscaper.”

    see , cashman’s inner fearless elf has been let out.

    you can’t un-ring the bell.

    stealth elf from now on.

  417. Doreen January 20th, 2011 at 9:07 am

    Thanks, MTU.

    :)

    We went cave exploring in I think it was Bermuda? a long time ago. I hated it. It was beautiful and that part I loved, but I couldn’t stand being in a cave. Not quite claustrophobia, but really uncomfortable. My husband is an adventurer at heart, though, so he loves getting the opportunity to do these things.

  418. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 9:08 am

    Randy-

    If Cashman is now a stealth elf he is gonna be invaluable around Xmas time.

    ;)

  419. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 9:12 am

    Doreen-

    The most exciting thing I’ve ever done in that regard is to float thru an absolutley pitch black cave on an inner tube. That was in Belize and it was very enjoyable. I’d do it again in a heartbeat.

    I’ve never your husband but I’m sure I’d like him. My kind of guy.

    :)

  420. YsGuy January 20th, 2011 at 9:12 am

    my thinking on cashman is the same it was last time his contract came up. you wait till the end of the then you weigh your options, which is also what cashman wanted to do last time.

    alot will depend on what kind of production the team gets out of thier 6,7 & 8 rotation spots (combined for 19 starts last season). andy or not, cashman has left a big hole there, apparently expecting that the arms in the minors will produce when needed. that shows great faith in these guys, even though the big arms in the system have mostly no experience yet at the aaa level. if the yankees see good things during those spot and injury starts, they will have saved the money they would have paid for bonderman types while leaving the room for performers in the minors to contribute at the mlb level. if they struggle, cash may lose his job.

    i think cash is cool with that. and im a little worried, but i’m okay with it, too. i think cashman has earned that.

  421. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 9:13 am

    edit: met. sorry.

  422. MTU January 20th, 2011 at 9:17 am

    Y’s-

    I sort of agree with you.

    Where I think I might differ is not with the concept of using the farm but in the development process and the implementation.

    For me there should never be more than one inexperienced arm in the rotation at any one time. That is what the 5 slot should be for.

  423. YsGuy January 20th, 2011 at 9:24 am

    mtu, agreed, thats why i say im a little worried, but the lee thing left him with few choices. if andy comes back, (which i personally am confident will happen) that moves nova back to #4 (i put andy in the 5 hole and skip or move him back whenever the opportunity comes up), and im cool with that.

    mitre looks alot better as #6 than #5, but i think either way, he gets passed by on the starter’s depth chart by the asb.

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