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Take your swings: The Yankees considered Pavano

Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Jan 19, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

One of the themes I’m planning to write about in my column for tomorrow is how, despite the move for Rafael Soriano, the Yankees still haven’t truly addressed their biggest need this offseason: Starting pitching.

For me, upgrading the bullpen – while always a positive for any team – wasn’t nearly as important as addressing their starters and when Cliff Lee turned down the Yankees they were left in a tough spot. The options below Lee were, to say the least, less-appealing.

Carl Pavano was on that list (he might have even been at the top of it) and so it wasn’t a total surprise to hear that GM Brian Cashman told reporters this morning that the Yankees had a few discussions with Pavano’s agent, Tom O’Connell. Could a remarriage with Pavano have worked here? I doubt it. I think Pavano is much better suited to a smaller market like Minnesota, though you certainly can’t fault Cashman for exploring it. If Andy Pettitte retires, the Yankees are staring at a pretty blank slate when it comes to the fourth and fifth starters – not exactly the scenario you want when spring training is a month away.

So, just for fun: Would you have been OK with a return to New York for Pavano? Or was his disaster here the last time just too much to ever overcome?

* That’s an AP shot of Pavano actually pitching in a game for the Yankees.

Comments

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650 Responses to “Take your swings: The Yankees considered Pavano”

  1. jesusmonterofordh January 19th, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    at this point you have to consider it

  2. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    Pavano would have been under the same light as Javy was, and first sign of trouble, the fans would be all over him like white on rice.

    Not good for us or him.

  3. Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    Or was his disaster here the last time just too much to ever overcome?

    ****************************
    that’s the one. ;)

  4. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    I am putting Cashman’s statement about considering Pavano up in the same place I keep the Ray Handley Giant years, Godfather III, Rocky 5 & 6, and the 2004 ALCS – IT NEVER HAPPENED.

  5. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    I would give Pavano another shot. Definitely.
    (I have been predicting this all offseason)

    And Pavano was the ace of Erica’s Avengers last season

  6. Patrick January 19th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    It would have been a good baseball move to sign Pavano. Unfortunately, by all accounts, the players in the clubhouse are as biased against Pavano as the majority of the fanbase. It’s really too bad because Pavano would have been a pretty significant upgrade to this team.

  7. Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Chip January 19th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
    I am putting Cashman?s statement about considering Pavano up in the same place I keep the Ray Handley Giant years, Godfather III, Rocky 5 & 6, and the 2004 ALCS ? IT NEVER HAPPENED.

    *****************************
    :lol:

  8. Mike Ri January 19th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    I am putting Cashman?s statement about considering Pavano up in the same place I keep the Ray Handley Giant years, Godfather III, Rocky 5 & 6, and the 2004 ALCS ? IT NEVER HAPPENED.

    —————-
    Chip . I kinda liked Rocky 5 . . the street fight was pretty cool ! ..

  9. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    I would like to modify my statement-

    I would give Pavano another shot in the RIGHT DEAL.

    Very short term and incentive filled

  10. G. Love January 19th, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    No. I would not have been okay with it.

    I also think Cashman is a bit of snot to publicly say he gave it some thought.

    After bringing back Javy and Nick Johnson last season and having it blow up in his face, it’s infuriating to read the GM say he considered making one of his biggest mistakes a 2nd time.

    If repeating his worst mistakes is his plan of action then I’m glad someone overruled him recently in the front office.

    He should have never admitted he considered him to a reporter. On top of some of the other comments this off season he’s looking smaller and smaller.

  11. FanSince1948 January 19th, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    Do you really think he would come back here?

  12. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    Bringing back Pavano would have been like bringing back Kenny Rogers or Jeff Weaver after their respective meltdowns – there are some things you just cannot do.

  13. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    If Cashman didn’t look into Pavano, he would not have been doing his job.

    However, Pavano would have been under a microscope from the first pitch and there’s no way it could have worked.

  14. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    # 108 stitches January 19th, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    Only 3 things can keep Chamberlain as a Yankee :

    - A firm commitment to better physical conditioning.

    - A strong desire to learn how to repeat his mechanics.

    - Stick to plan and don’t deviate.

    He will otherwise find himself a former Yankee.

    ————————————————–
    /////

    desire has nothing to do with repeating his delivery.they were originally worried about his arm,because he flicks it violently (where the speed comes from) & they wanted his body to catch up & be under him more,along with a host of tweaks to achieve a more coherent,supported delivery.i understand their point,but it’s tricky trying to “fix” what is successful & what is mysterious at the same time.I wonder,does anyone know if the giants tried to “alter” Lincecum?he looks like he’s goin to explode,but it works for him.

  15. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    (1) “I don’t know of a team in MLB that has one person make ALL of the calls re: player acquisitions….

    (2) “If anything, the Soriano signing gives Cashman more ammo to extend the budget (if need be) so ownership can “hedge it’s bet”, if you will.”

    I don’t think I was arguing point (1), and point (2) assumes Cashman isn’t aware of the same thing.

    Anyway, what’s done is done. The Soriano signing improved the team and hopefully it all works out great.

  16. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Another absolutely preposterous idea to add to my long list of reasons why I think Brian Cashman is an average General Manger at best.

  17. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    G. Love January 19th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
    No. I would not have been okay with it.

    I also think Cashman is a bit of snot to publicly say he gave it some thought.

    After bringing back Javy and Nick Johnson last season and having it blow up in his face, it’s infuriating to read the GM say he considered making one of his biggest mistakes a 2nd time.

    **********

    The difference is twofold-

    1) Pavano didn’t do a bad job. He was just hurt for 4 years……

    2) Pavano stayed healthy since leaving the Yankees and pitched well in the AL. He wasn’t injured ever year like NJ was. And he didn’t go to the NL like Javy. He stayed in the AL and succeeded and stayed healthy there. Which is why an incentive filled contract would be the way to proceed

  18. Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    BryanHoch Snowy Yankee Stadium ~ http://yfrog.com/h0w0yrrj

  19. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
    Another absolutely preposterous idea to add to my long list of reasons why I think Brian Cashman is an average General Manger at best.

    ***********

    Like Doreen just said-

    If Cashman wasn’t exploring the market he would not be doing his job

  20. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    Erica in NY-

    You’re in the wrong forum to argue that, IMO.

  21. Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    FanSince1948 January 19th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
    Do you really think he would come back here?

    ***********************
    Let’s hope not.

  22. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    I much prefer going with Joba to bringing Pavano back,but at least Pavano is a solid starter.A couple of wins & people would not conjure the past.CP though isn’t a Rothschild kinda guy,from all reports & if the yanks are worried about the left side of the infield with Arod & Jete slower,they wouldn’t sign Pavano.

  23. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 12:24 pm
    Erica in NY-

    You’re in the wrong forum to argue that, IMO.

    ***************

    I am just stating a very calm and rational alternative

  24. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    Pavano stayed healthy since leaving the Yankees and pitched well in the AL. He wasn’t injured ever year like NJ was. And he didn’t go to the NL like Javy. He stayed in the AL and succeeded and stayed healthy there. Which is why an incentive filled contract would be the way to proceed

    ___

    Except Minny will probably give him more guaranteed money. Why would he agree to an incentive contract when he can get a better contract with a team he is clearly more comfortable with.

  25. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    ac1-

    I really think if that Minny contract existed he would have snapped it by now.

  26. G. Love January 19th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    I understand Cashman should do due diligence and look at all available options, but admitting to a reporter than he considered bringing back Pavano and talked to his agent about it is not cool.

    Pavano missed time due to legit injuries and also missed time due to his own immaturity.

    He got paid a small fortune (more than Soriano) and gave the team nothing for it.

  27. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    I think we mostly agree that we want Joba to get another chance to start. However, being realistic right now we know that isnt likely to happen.

    Also, Pettitte is working out. He will be back by June ( i believe )

  28. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    “I am just stating a very calm and rational alternative”

    I didn’t say you weren’t.

  29. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Pavano would be better then any of the 4th or 5th guys we have now. But there is just too much venom among the fan base. All hypothetical anyway.

  30. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    G. Love January 19th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
    I understand Cashman should do due diligence and look at all available options, but admitting to a reporter than he considered bringing back Pavano and talked to his agent about it is not cool.

    ***************

    Was he supposed to lie to the reporter?

    Again, if Cashman said he didn’t explore Pavano he wouldn’t be doing his due diligence

  31. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    I don’t agree Erica. Pavano is a known quantity here, unfortunately, and Cashman knew what his asking price would be. It served no purpose except to publicly display his lack of baseball instincts.

  32. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    Pavano stayed healthy since leaving the Yankees and pitched well in the AL. He wasn’t injured ever year like NJ was. And he didn’t go to the NL like Javy. He stayed in the AL and succeeded and stayed healthy there. Which is why an incentive filled contract would be the way to proceed

    ///
    good points .
    like I said I wouldn’t consider this the end of the world,lol.

  33. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
    “I am just stating a very calm and rational alternative”

    I didn’t say you weren’t.

    *************

    No. You said I was doing it in the wrong forum.
    Where would be a better place for me to state that alternative?

    Just because it isn’t the popular opinion doesn’t make it less valid

  34. Mike Ri January 19th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    G Love -

    I understand Cashman should do due diligence and look at all available options, but admitting to a reporter than he considered bringing back Pavano and talked to his agent about it is not cool.

    Pavano missed time due to legit injuries and also missed time due to his own immaturity.

    He got paid a small fortune (more than Soriano) and gave the team nothing for it.

    ————————————–

    What if Pavano is much more healthier and mature pitcher now. He proved it in Minnesota .

  35. 108 stitches January 19th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Too much bad history and zero fan support for a Pavano return even though it was a bad free agency year for starting pitchers. 2012 won’t be much better, if at all.
    The Yankees will eventually need to make the best deal possible for a proven starting pitcher or two VIA trade without too much sacrifice of the farm system.
    Larry Rothschild looms large in spring training. At least Kevin Long knows what he has to work with. Rothschild won’t have a moment’s peace for what he needs to do.

  36. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    I can’t believe people bash Cashman for exploring a move lol. The guy can’t catch a break.

  37. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
    Pavano would be better then any of the 4th or 5th guys we have now. But there is just too much venom among the fan base. All hypothetical anyway.

    ////
    fanbase venom though shouldn’t be a consideration in a situation like this.

  38. CK in LA January 19th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    Wouldn’t it be easier to just send him a large check and have him not show up? Why break with tradition.

  39. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    “Just because it isn’t the popular opinion doesn’t make it less valid”

    I didn’t say it wasn’t valid.

  40. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    Fanbase venom would disappear with a 2-0 record and 10Ks

  41. GreenBeret7 January 19th, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Cashman didn’t say he called Pavano or his agent about coming back. all he said was that he had conversations. was he supposed to hang up on them or check his caller ID and not pick up?

  42. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
    “Just because it isn’t the popular opinion doesn’t make it less valid”

    I didn’t say it wasn’t valid.

    ************

    You kind of implied it, by stateing that I was in the wrong forum.

    But whatever, I don’t want to argue semantics

  43. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    I know it shouldn’t. Yankee fans just don’t forget. Pavano could have gone on to win a few Cy Youngs after leaving the Yankees and fans would say “but he didn’t cut it here”

  44. Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    CK in LA January 19th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
    Wouldn?t it be easier to just send him a large check and have him not show up? Why break with tradition.

    *****************************

    :lol:

  45. hardwired7 January 19th, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    Phew!

    We’ve already been down this “What’s the worst that can happen?” road. (See: Vazquez, Javy.)

    ***SPOILER ALERT***

    It doesn’t end well.

  46. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    I agree with Erica. Unequivocally.

    I just think Pavano would be nuts to consider it, given the elephantine memory of the Yankees fanbase, and their propensity for rushing to negative judgment overall.

  47. randy l. January 19th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    the baseball gods must have a sick sense of humor if the yankees only choice is pavano.

    been there done that.

    pass.

  48. pat January 19th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Anyone in Tampa and looking for something to do tonight?

    Derek is having a party at Seminole Hard Rock tonight for his foundation with Boyz To Men performing and tickets are still available.

  49. blake January 19th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    For one year Pavano would have been good….he’s not taking a one year deal though wbhen he has longer offers on the table and I wouldn’t want him.for longer than that.

  50. Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    BryanHoch Cashman on rotation upgrade: “The starter might have to come from within. Hopefully we have some of these young kids answer the bell for us”

  51. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Pavano is a solid starter but boy walking down that road again….

  52. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    pat January 19th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
    Anyone in Tampa and looking for something to do tonight?

    Derek is having a party at Seminole Hard Rock tonight for his foundation with Boyz To Men performing and tickets are still available.

    **************

    Is 1996 the theme of the party????

  53. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Erica -

    Unfortunately fan base venom wouldn’t disappear; it would simply go into hiding, but ever on alert.

  54. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Erica-

    I didn’t intend to imply anything about the validity of your point, I was just predicting it wouldn’t be given much of a hearing. I’m sorry if you thought I was criticizing you, I wasn’t.

  55. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Yet Pavano is better then any of the reclamation projects or Millwood/Garcia.

  56. Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    pat January 19th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
    Anyone in Tampa and looking for something to do tonight?

    Derek is having a party at Seminole Hard Rock tonight for his foundation with Boyz To Men performing and tickets are still available.

    ***************************
    Boyz To Men?? Wow-I didn’t even know they were still together. lol

  57. Patrick January 19th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Another absolutely preposterous idea to add to my long list of reasons why I think Brian Cashman is an average General Manger at best.

    Another reason I like Cashman…

  58. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
    Erica-

    I didn’t intend to imply anything about the validity of your point, I was just predicting it wouldn’t be given much of a hearing. I’m sorry if you thought I was criticizing you, I wasn’t.

    ****************

    Thank you. I appreciate that :-)

  59. G. Love January 19th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    Discussing Pavano the sequel with a reporter lacks tact. He knows how the fans feel about Pavano.

    He doesn’t have to lie. He just needed to say, “we’ve considered a lot of pitchers” and leave it at that.

    I realize Pavano pitching well in Minny erased from some of your minds what he did and didn’t do while he was here. It hasn’t from mine. It wasn’t just pitching related injuries that kept him from fulfilling his contract here.

  60. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    not bashing cashman for looking at him. pointing out it wouldnt be a good idea.

  61. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Did anyone see that tie Cashman wore. WTH was he thinking?!:!? Fire the bum!

  62. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Like it or not Pavano had a good year last season. 7th in era. 7 cgs and two shutouts. I understand the hate for the guy. But Cashman to not even consider it would be a fool.

  63. GreenBeret7 January 19th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
    pat January 19th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
    Anyone in Tampa and looking for something to do tonight?

    Derek is having a party at Seminole Hard Rock tonight for his foundation with Boyz To Men performing and tickets are still available.

    ***************************
    Boyz To Men?? Wow-I didn’t even know they were still together. lol

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    They’ve been renamed “Men To Geezers”. Randy is their manager.

  64. RadioKev January 19th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    I really think he’d have to come at a discount, which wouldn’t happen.

  65. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    G. Love January 19th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    Brian could use your services as a ghost writer.

  66. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    G. Love January 19th, 2011 at 12:37 pm
    Discussing Pavano the sequel with a reporter lacks tact. He knows how the fans feel about Pavano.

    He doesn’t have to lie. He just needed to say, “we’ve considered a lot of pitchers” and leave it at that.

    I realize Pavano pitching well in Minny erased from some of your minds what he did and didn’t do while he was here. It hasn’t from mine. It wasn’t just pitching related injuries that kept him from fulfilling his contract here.

    ***************

    Pavano in Cleveland & Minny didn’t erase 2005-2008 in my mind. But no one can go back and declare a do-over in those years. The focus right now has to be 2011 and beyond. And if Carl Pavano represented a viable upgrade to the 2011 Yankee rotation than I think its certainly an avenue worth exploring.

  67. hardwired7 January 19th, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    I don’t mean to sound like I’m consistently bashing Javy Vazquez. I’ve read repeatedly that he’s a great guy, and his teammates really wanted to see him succeed.

    Some guys are crushed by the pressure. Who can blame them? I can’t imagine being on the mound @YS…I’d probably pass out.

    You find the rare ones who thrive. Obviously it’s not easy, but eventually Cashman will find one or two.

  68. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    Btw- there are only 3 members of Boys II Men now.

    The tall guy left the group

  69. Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    GreenBeret7 January 19th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    They?ve been renamed ?Men To Geezers?. Randy is their manager.

    ******************************

    :lol:

  70. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    # J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    “some on here do nothing but buoy managment decisions,no matter how insupportable they appear to be.”

    All that comes from the “they know more than we do” line that gets thrown around every so often.

  71. Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    BryanHoch For those who have asked, both Cashman & Girardi insist there is no chance of considering Joba Chamberlain as a starter in ’11.

  72. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Best thing is we gave up Melky and a prospect who is years away. No harm no foul. Plus we got Logan out of it.

  73. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    “Derek is having a party at Seminole Hard Rock tonight for his foundation with Boyz To Men performing and tickets are still available.”
    ++++++++++++
    Do you mean Men To Seniorz?

  74. YankeesNmore January 19th, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    As if the RE-acquiring of Javier Crapzquez wasn’t bad enough…

    Now we know Brian Cashman actually considered bring back Carl Pavano. Who’s next??? Kenny Rogers???

    There are guys in that Yankees clubhouse that would COMPLETELY FLIP if Pavano was brought back in.

    Brian Cashman = Idiot.

    Past time for a change.

  75. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Darn–GB beat me to it, and with a better punchline too! Well done!

  76. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Not shocked at that Joba news.

  77. G. Love January 19th, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    I think too many Yankee fans saw a competitive looking Pavano standing on the top step vs. the Yankees last year and think he’s a different guy.

    Yes, he pitched well there. Javy Vazquez was a Cy Young contender in ATL. Some people aren’t meant to come back.

  78. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Well he isn’t coming back so people can rest easy.

  79. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    G. Love January 19th, 2011 at 12:44 pm
    I think too many Yankee fans saw a competitive looking Pavano standing on the top step vs. the Yankees last year and think he’s a different guy.

    Yes, he pitched well there. Javy Vazquez was a Cy Young contender in ATL. Some people aren’t meant to come back.

    —————-

    I second that.

  80. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    yes, Odds, blah,blah,blah :D

  81. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    BryanHoch Bryan Hoch
    Girardi on Joba: “It’s probably hard to bounce back and forth all the time. Then you end up with an innings limitation again.” Sees 6th/7th

  82. pinstripes7 January 19th, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    The negative feelings are more with the team than the fans. Some of the guys thought he didn’t give a full effort to rehabbing. That being said, he did rehab eventually and pitched at the end of his contract. Performing in NY wasn’t his problem. Still don’t think it will happen though.

  83. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    Like it or not Pavano had a good year last season. 7th in era. 7 cgs and two shutouts. I understand the hate for the guy. But Cashman to not even consider it would be a fool.

    __

    You know the other time he pitched well. HIs last contract year before with the Marlins/

  84. Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    BryanHoch Girardi on Joba: “It’s probably hard to bounce back and forth all the time. Then you end up with an innings limitation again.” Sees 6th/7th

  85. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Ac1- Good point. I am just not thrilled with the fact we may have to get Garcia or Millwood.

  86. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    # Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    BryanHoch For those who have asked, both Cashman & Girardi insist there is no chance of considering Joba Chamberlain as a starter in ’11.

    ———————————–

    *dusts off hands* Well that’s the end of that however……

    BryanHoch Cashman on rotation upgrade: “The starter might have to come from within. Hopefully we have some of these young kids answer the bell for us”

    Cashman once again with the contradicting statements lol. If he is serious about a young kid hopefully it is Joba over a kid on the farm because I would hate for one of the B’s to come up and live up to expectations of being the savior of the rotation.

  87. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    1. Cashman should not be fired for saying he considered Pavano – it’s his job to consider everyone out there.

    2. No Cashman should not have brought Pavano back to the Yankees (and he didn’t)

    He considered him, dismissed the notion and moved on.

  88. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
    BryanHoch For those who have asked, both Cashman & Girardi insist there is no chance of considering Joba Chamberlain as a starter in ’11.

    ///
    I think it’s a hoot that they have to keep restating this.

  89. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Ac1- Good point. I am just not thrilled with the fact we may have to get Garcia or Millwood.

    ___

    no one is… i hope.

    i would almost rather just watch the younger guys learn until Pettitte finally comes back.

  90. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 12:51 pm
    # Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    BryanHoch For those who have asked, both Cashman & Girardi insist there is no chance of considering Joba Chamberlain as a starter in ’11.

    ———————————–

    *dusts off hands* Well that’s the end of that however……

    BryanHoch Cashman on rotation upgrade: “The starter might have to come from within. Hopefully we have some of these young kids answer the bell for us”

    Cashman once again with the contradicting statements lol. If he is serious about a young kid hopefully it is Joba over a kid on the farm because I would hate for one of the B’s to come up and live up to expectations of being the savior of the rotation.

    ——————-

    Not a contradictory statement at all.

    Joba’s not going to start but Cashman hopes some kids will step up – there are other kids available to him than Joba and, apparently, he considers them more viable options in the rotation than he does Chamberlain.

  91. coney1 January 19th, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Chip:

    Not according to Ken Rosenthal. Supposedly the Yankees offered Pavano a 1-year deal at a high base salary and he was intending to sign with them until the Twins offered the 2nd year.

    Ken_Rosenthal Sources: Pavano “seriously considered” #Yankees. http://tinyurl.com/64ke4uz #Twins #MLB

  92. RMS January 19th, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    Don’t think Pavano would come back to NY.
    Some Yankees didn’t like him.
    Fans would boo him mercilessly if he pitched badly.

    He probably would break his ankle the first time he walked to the mound.

  93. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    Chip January 19th, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    BryanHoch Bryan Hoch
    Girardi on Joba: “It’s probably hard to bounce back and forth all the time. Then you end up with an innings limitation again.” Sees 6th/7th
    +++++++++++
    Just rationalization and against what they were so careful to explain last year as a non-issue.

  94. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    # Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    BryanHoch Girardi on Joba: “It’s probably hard to bounce back and forth all the time. Then you end up with an innings limitation again.” Sees 6th/7th

    ————————————-

    Sounds like they liked what they saw out of him when Kerry took over the 8th. If he is staying in the pen they better hope he does what he did when he lost the 8th.

  95. G. Love January 19th, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    Cashman and the team are clearly feeling the pressure from the fans to give Joba one more shot in the rotation.

    They’d have to be deaf and blind not to realize almost everyone is pulling for that to happen.

    I still don’t think it’s an impossibility. I think if it happens it will be under the radar until they are ready to commit to it in public.

  96. jacksquat January 19th, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Sure, on a one year contract, low base + incentives.

    But another team will give him more than that.

  97. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 12:51 pm
    Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
    BryanHoch For those who have asked, both Cashman & Girardi insist there is no chance of considering Joba Chamberlain as a starter in ’11.

    ///
    I think it’s a hoot that they have to keep restating this.

    —————-

    It’ll be over in 3 weeks.

    Pitchers and catchers will report – Joba will throw with the bullpen guys and that will be that.

  98. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Odds,

    neither Manny nor Betances is ready to join the rotation & ABrack’s change is still a WIP.

  99. upstate kate January 19th, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    I would rather see one of the young guys get the opportunity to start than get anyone still left out there…and that includes Joba, altho I don’t see that happening.

  100. Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    Joelsherman1 Got strong impression at Soriano presser #Yankees r at verge of deal with Andruw Jones Sense Damon wants more play time than Yanks can offer

  101. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    I don’t think anyone is looking to a young pitcher to be the “savior of the rotation.” I think that’s overstating by quite a bit.

    I also don’t think the “B’s” are the only young pitching in the system, and no one is going to jump a level or 2 to start for the ML club in April.

    I would put forth that Joba is no longer considered “one of these young kids,” since he’s been with the big league team since 2007.

    Some of you just really are only interested in jumping on everything Cashman says.

  102. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Who could help the yankee rotation minus the B’s?

  103. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
    Chip January 19th, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    BryanHoch Bryan Hoch
    Girardi on Joba: “It’s probably hard to bounce back and forth all the time. Then you end up with an innings limitation again.” Sees 6th/7th
    +++++++++++
    Just rationalization and against what they were so careful to explain last year as a non-issue
    ——————–

    If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck – sometimes you just have to accept the fact that it’s a duck.

    Joba Chamberlain is a relief pitcher. He is Aaron Heilman with a better publicist.

    Could he someday be a starter again like Heilman is hoping happens with Arizona? Sure. But odds are it won’t be here.

    Within two years Joba Chamberlain will be off the Yankees.

  104. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    # Chip January 19th, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 12:51 pm
    # Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    BryanHoch For those who have asked, both Cashman & Girardi insist there is no chance of considering Joba Chamberlain as a starter in ’11.

    ———————————–

    *dusts off hands* Well that’s the end of that however……

    BryanHoch Cashman on rotation upgrade: “The starter might have to come from within. Hopefully we have some of these young kids answer the bell for us”

    Cashman once again with the contradicting statements lol. If he is serious about a young kid hopefully it is Joba over a kid on the farm because I would hate for one of the B’s to come up and live up to expectations of being the savior of the rotation.

    ——————-

    Not a contradictory statement at all.

    Joba’s not going to start but Cashman hopes some kids will step up – there are other kids available to him than Joba and, apparently, he considers them more viable options in the rotation than he does Chamberlain.

    ———————————-

    It was a joke thats why I put the lol. I would rather see Joba get a shot than rush another kid to the majors. We’ve been down that road already.

  105. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
    Who could help the yankee rotation minus the B’s?

    ——————

    My money’s on David Phelps.

  106. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    CHip,if the 4th or 5th guy doesn’t hold it down & Andy doesn’t come back or gets hurt. that won’t be that at all. Cos right now, it’s ‘why can’t Joba start,you had him in a so-called competition last ST & he didn’t suffer an injury or anything.now we need a Number 4 stater,why not joba?

    which,if the 4 or 5 guy falters, will become: “OK,you tried these arms & they aren’t working out,why can’t you move Joba into the rotation??

  107. blake January 19th, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    One year of Pavano would have been ok…..sure there is the risk of Javy part II but I still like him better than Freddy Garcia. Javy struggled because his stuff left him….it would have been a potential circus though and there’s no way I would have went beyond 1 year.

  108. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    It was a joke thats why I put the lol. I would rather see Joba get a shot than rush another kid to the majors. We’ve been down that road already.

    ——————

    My bad.

    I would rather see the Yankees sign a veteran than rush a kid to the majors, but if they get the sense that Nova, Noesi, Warren or Phelps is ready to go – so be it.

  109. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    I almost expect the 4/5 guys to falter.

  110. RMS January 19th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    “Cashman and the team are clearly feeling the pressure from the fans to give Joba one more shot in the rotation.”

    Cashman and Girardi will do what they feel is best for the team. They don’t and shouldn’t feel pressure from the fans.

  111. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    # Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    I don’t think anyone is looking to a young pitcher to be the “savior of the rotation.” I think that’s overstating by quite a bit.

    I also don’t think the “B’s” are the only young pitching in the system, and no one is going to jump a level or 2 to start for the ML club in April.

    I would put forth that Joba is no longer considered “one of these young kids,” since he’s been with the big league team since 2007.

    Some of you just really are only interested in jumping on everything Cashman says.

    ————————————————

    Who besides the B’s is down there that can step up and help?

    Well Cashman leaves himself open to statements that he makes. I don’t want to rehash the Jeter thing but he made himself look bad with some of the comments he made.

  112. blake January 19th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Chip,

    I like Phelps quite a bit. Phelps, Noesi, and Brackman fouled all help at some point.

  113. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
    CHip,if the 4th or 5th guy doesn’t hold it down & Andy doesn’t come back or gets hurt. that won’t be that at all. Cos right now, it’s ‘why can’t Joba start,you had him in a so-called competition last ST & he didn’t suffer an injury or anything.now we need a Number 4 stater,why not joba?

    which,if the 4 or 5 guy falters, will become: “OK,you tried these arms & they aren’t working out,why can’t you move Joba into the rotation?
    ————————

    The Yankees are not going to stretch Joba out during the season again like they did in 2008. That’s just not happening.

    If all that you say comes to pass the Yankees will mix and match with minor league starters, explore trades, move Mitre into the rotation.

  114. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    The day the Yankees start letting the fans call the shots is the day I think the franchise is in trouble.

    :)

  115. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    # Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    It was a joke thats why I put the lol. I would rather see Joba get a shot than rush another kid to the majors. We’ve been down that road already.

    ——————

    My bad.

    I would rather see the Yankees sign a veteran than rush a kid to the majors, but if they get the sense that Nova, Noesi, Warren or Phelps is ready to go – so be it.

    ————————————–

    It would nice to see Andy come back. That would calm things down a bit.

  116. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
    # Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    It was a joke thats why I put the lol. I would rather see Joba get a shot than rush another kid to the majors. We’ve been down that road already.

    ——————

    My bad.

    I would rather see the Yankees sign a veteran than rush a kid to the majors, but if they get the sense that Nova, Noesi, Warren or Phelps is ready to go – so be it.

    ————————————–

    It would nice to see Andy come back. That would calm things down a bit.

    —————-

    Very true.

  117. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    Chip, right ANYTHING to avoid that anathema to starting pitching,Joba Chamberlain.Really, the yankees are laughable on this.

  118. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Andy wants to be like his buddy Roger and come back mid season.

  119. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Add Andy Sisco to the mix of guys in the minors who might be able to step into the 5th starter role.

  120. blake January 19th, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Andys comin back….just don’t know if it’ll be to start the season

  121. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    Until Pavano actually signs with Twins, I have to believe Cashamn might still be exploring this. Why else would he bring it up? Maybe the team offers Pavano a deal like Soriano with options and incentives plus a high 1st year salary…

    Nothing is certain with Cshman until it is done.

  122. Mell January 19th, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    “Cashman and the team are clearly feeling the pressure from the fans to give Joba one more shot in the rotation”

    No GM would ever base a decision like this based on fan pressure. At least not any GM who expects to win.

  123. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    Bojo,maybe they are airing out the idea & then will check out the blogs to see how it sits,lol.

  124. 108 stitches January 19th, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
    BryanHoch For those who have asked, both Cashman & Girardi insist there is no chance of considering Joba Chamberlain as a starter in ’11.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That’s been a foregone conclusion. The subject himself hasn’t called to express an interest which is the least he could have done IF he cared to further his career. It’s why he’s making half the money Phil Hughes does.

  125. hardwired7 January 19th, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Who besides the B’s is down there that can step up and help?

    —————–

    How about David Phelps?

    In over 382 minor league innings, he’s only given up 20 HRs. Last season he gave up 6.

    They just need innings and a guy who can keep it in the park. He seems to fit the bill.

    http://www.baseball-reference......elps001dav

  126. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    PR-wise…Cashman certainly is having a tough off-season.

  127. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    # Chip January 19th, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 12:51 pm
    Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
    BryanHoch For those who have asked, both Cashman & Girardi insist there is no chance of considering Joba Chamberlain as a starter in ’11.

    ///
    I think it’s a hoot that they have to keep restating this.

    —————-

    It’ll be over in 3 weeks.

    Pitchers and catchers will report – Joba will throw with the bullpen guys and that will be that.

    ————————–

    And if he pitches well then the starter stuff should die down if the rotation is performing. But if either one isn’t performing well….

  128. Erin January 19th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    JackCurryYES Cashman said he was going to talk to Boras after the Soriano presser. Cashman also indicated Andruw Jones fits the mold of RH OF he needs.

  129. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    No GM would ever base a decision like this based on fan pressure. At least not any GM who expects to win.

    ///
    no, fan pressure should not be a factor, but since I am firmly for Joba getting another turn in the rotation,I will enjoy watching Cashman have to deflect the question every other day.

  130. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:04 pm
    Chip, right ANYTHING to avoid that anathema to starting pitching,Joba Chamberlain.Really, the yankees are laughable on this.

    —————

    Is it possible that the Yankees have a better feel for Joba than we fans do? That the Yankees who see him day in and day out – not just during the games but during every single workout – have all his medical information and have talent evaluators up the yinyang might know something about Chamberlain that we don’t?

    And that maybe it’s all this information – and not spite – that is why they think Joba is best suited in the pen?

  131. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    @ hardwired sounds like a viable options.

  132. Yank 97 January 19th, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said he did not want to sign Rafael Soriano because he didn’t feel paying closer money to the team’s setup man made sense. And, in the end, Cashman said he did not participate in negotiations with Soriano’s agent, Scott Boras.

    “I didn’t recommend [the deal,]” Cashman said after the team officially introduced Soriano as their eighth-inning man in front of closer Mariano Rivera.

    The 31-year-old is a fine reliever, Cashman said, but as he tries to pare down the Yankees $200 million payroll he would have preferred a more patient approach. The executives above Cashman disagreed.

    The Yankees hierarchy — owners Hal and Hank Steinbrenner, along with team president Randy Levine — wanted to improve the team this offseason.

    Levine said that the club is running a “$5 billion” business and the team has a “sacred obligation” to its fans.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-.....id=6037544

  133. hardwired7 January 19th, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    Also, how about I read the previous posts where everybody has already talked about Phelps?

    Hurrying through lunch and posting is a bad combination.

  134. Mike Ri January 19th, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    not sure if any posted this yet

    via MLBTRADERUMORS

    11:58am: Pavano seriously considered returning to the Yankees, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. The Yankees explored a one-year, high-salary deal with Pavano before the Twins offered a second year.

  135. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
    No GM would ever base a decision like this based on fan pressure. At least not any GM who expects to win.

    ///
    no, fan pressure should not be a factor, but since I am firmly for Joba getting another turn in the rotation,I will enjoy watching Cashman have to deflect the question every other day.

    —————–

    He won’t.

    The media is dumb but even they’re not so dumb as to think that the Yankees will open the season with Joba in the pen and then transition him back into the rotation. They saw how awfully that worked before and wouldn’t expect them to go down that road again.

    As I said, the Joba stuff ends when spring training begins.

  136. YankeesNmore January 19th, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    So Cashman wasn’t only “checking in” with Pavano… He actually made a sincere effort to try and sign the guy.

    How out of touch with reality is this moron?

    FIRE HIM NOW!

  137. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    Francesa is really too much.he lives to run down the jets.now they ‘haven’t done anything,’but IIRC,he derided them for beating the Colts in a game Peyton didn’t play.well they beat peyton & Brady in back-to-back weeks & are only one of four remaining teams.the guy is an embarrassment.

  138. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    # J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    No GM would ever base a decision like this based on fan pressure. At least not any GM who expects to win.

    ///
    no, fan pressure should not be a factor, but since I am firmly for Joba getting another turn in the rotation,I will enjoy watching Cashman have to deflect the question every other day.

    ————————————

    I wonder how many ppl within the organization are hounding him about Joba starting. If fans want to see him start again and bring it up one has to think ppl inside the club are voicing their opinions.

  139. Mike Ri January 19th, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    not sure if any posted this yet

    via MLBTRADERUMORS

    11:58am: Pavano seriously considered returning to the Yankees, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. The Yankees explored a one-year, high-salary deal with Pavano before the Twins offered a second year.

    ——————————————————–
    Do the Yanks go 2 years ?? or how about a 1 year with a kick in year if incentives are met

  140. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    Yank 97 January 19th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
    Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said he did not want to sign Rafael Soriano because he didn’t feel paying closer money to the team’s setup man made sense. And, in the end, Cashman said he did not participate in negotiations with Soriano’s agent, Scott Boras.

    “I didn’t recommend [the deal,]” Cashman said after the team officially introduced Soriano as their eighth-inning man in front of closer Mariano Rivera.

    The 31-year-old is a fine reliever, Cashman said, but as he tries to pare down the Yankees $200 million payroll he would have preferred a more patient approach. The executives above Cashman disagreed.

    The Yankees hierarchy — owners Hal and Hank Steinbrenner, along with team president Randy Levine — wanted to improve the team this offseason.

    Levine said that the club is running a “$5 billion” business and the team has a “sacred obligation” to its fans.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-…..id=6037544

    ————–

    At least he didn’t stomp his feet and quit for a month like Theo did when Luccino overruled him and traded Hanley Ramirez and Anibel Sanchez to the Marlins for Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell.

  141. YankeesNmore January 19th, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    BREAKING NEWS: Brian Cashman trying to sign Kenny Rogers!

  142. Mike Ri January 19th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    BREAKING NEWS: Brian Cashman trying to sign Kenny Rogers!

    ———————-

    Can’t be any worse then Mitre !! MEAT TRAY

  143. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    hardwired7 January 19th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
    Also, how about I read the previous posts where everybody has already talked about Phelps?

    Hurrying through lunch and posting is a bad combination.

    ///
    Haven’t ever seen Phelps pitch but I hear good things about him.

  144. blake January 19th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Watched Phelps about 3 times last year….was impressed. Seems polished and knows how to pitch.

  145. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Chip–

    Are those the same talent evaluators that made all those great moves last year (Javy, Winn, NJ, Matsui, etc.)?

    Because–guess what? They’re human too. And they can make mistakes…

    All most of us are saying is give him a chance. If he doesn’t make it, then put him back in pen. If he does, he solves a lot of problems and even has upside.

    If it is a injury concern, then risk it. His value as a middle reliever isn’t that great…worth the risk.

  146. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
    # J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    No GM would ever base a decision like this based on fan pressure. At least not any GM who expects to win.

    ///
    no, fan pressure should not be a factor, but since I am firmly for Joba getting another turn in the rotation,I will enjoy watching Cashman have to deflect the question every other day.

    ————————————

    I wonder how many ppl within the organization are hounding him about Joba starting. If fans want to see him start again and bring it up one has to think ppl inside the club are voicing their opinions.

    —————————–

    A) I think the number of fans in the “Joba should start” camp is a loud minority. Most fans just want the Yankees to win and could care less how they go about doing it.

    B) From the articles that came out right after the Soriano signing – a major reason why the front office wanted Soriano was that they didn’t trust Joba being the EIG or back-up closer. Why would they want him starting. Interestingly the guy who was most supportive of Joba was Cashman who also doesn’t want Joba starting.

  147. hardwired7 January 19th, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    I guess the Yankees really, REALLY don’t think Andy is coming back.

    Otherwise, they wouldn’t have offered his $$$ to Pavano.

  148. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    If it is a injury concern, then risk it. His value as a middle reliever isn’t that great…worth the risk.

    ——————————-

    I gather that the Yankees don’t feel the same way.

  149. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    # 108 stitches January 19th, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Erin January 19th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
    BryanHoch For those who have asked, both Cashman & Girardi insist there is no chance of considering Joba Chamberlain as a starter in ’11.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That’s been a foregone conclusion. The subject himself hasn’t called to express an interest which is the least he could have done IF he cared to further his career. It’s why he’s making half the money Phil Hughes does.

    ——————————————-

    Too be fair we done know if he hasn’t called plus Joba was told in ST that he is a reliever and that’s it. Even with spots open in the rotation he isn’t an option.

  150. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    So they overruled Cashman. No big deal.

  151. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
    # J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    No GM would ever base a decision like this based on fan pressure. At least not any GM who expects to win.

    ///
    no, fan pressure should not be a factor, but since I am firmly for Joba getting another turn in the rotation,I will enjoy watching Cashman have to deflect the question every other day.

    ————————————

    I wonder how many ppl within the organization are hounding him about Joba starting. If fans want to see him start again and bring it up one has to think ppl inside the club are voicing their opinions.

    ////
    one of the few instances where divisiveness would be a positive thing.I hope so, anyway.I find it amusing that RAB are now writing that the yanks bungled Chamberlain’s development but that writing posts about this a couple of months ago caused the blog kings there to come in and basically forbid further discussion on the subject. seriously,they were in ban mode for anyone who belabored the point. now the dudes over there are impassioned as if they’re starting some revolution. well lmao.

  152. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    I wonder how many ppl within the organization are hounding him about Joba starting. If fans want to see him start again and bring it up one has to think ppl inside the club are voicing their opinions.
    +++++++++++++++
    Also, I wonder if the fans hound them enough, will the brothers and Levine over rule Cashman?

    But I do agree with the earlier comment that Rothschild may have the biggest say in this at the end of the day.

  153. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    I gather that the Yankees don’t feel the same way.
    ++++++++++++
    We won’t really know until the end of ST

  154. DocTodd January 19th, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    Why not?? Look how well Javy and Nick Johnson worked out the second time!!

  155. Mell January 19th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    “At least he didn’t stomp his feet and quit for a month like Theo did when Luccino overruled him and traded Hanley Ramirez and Anibel Sanchez to the Marlins for Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell”

    You have your timeline wrong. Epstein left due to issues of contract and autonomy. The Beckett/Ramirez deal was made a month after he left and roughly two months in advance of his return.

  156. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    I wonder how many ppl within the organization are hounding him about Joba starting. If fans want to see him start again and bring it up one has to think ppl inside the club are voicing their opinions.
    +++++++++++++++
    Also, I wonder if the fans hound them enough, will the brothers and Levine over rule Cashman?

    ———————————

    If they do – Cashman walks.

    When Randy Levine starts making baseball decisions like that the Yankees will be in a world of hurt.

  157. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    Hope the Jones deal gets done today.

  158. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    # Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
    # J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    No GM would ever base a decision like this based on fan pressure. At least not any GM who expects to win.

    ///
    no, fan pressure should not be a factor, but since I am firmly for Joba getting another turn in the rotation,I will enjoy watching Cashman have to deflect the question every other day.

    ————————————

    I wonder how many ppl within the organization are hounding him about Joba starting. If fans want to see him start again and bring it up one has to think ppl inside the club are voicing their opinions.

    —————————–

    A) I think the number of fans in the “Joba should start” camp is a loud minority. Most fans just want the Yankees to win and could care less how they go about doing it.

    B) From the articles that came out right after the Soriano signing – a major reason why the front office wanted Soriano was that they didn’t trust Joba being the EIG or back-up closer. Why would they want him starting. Interestingly the guy who was most supportive of Joba was Cashman who also doesn’t want Joba starting.

    —————————————-

    Well if he’s not good enough to start for the club and he’s not good enough to be a reliever why did they refuse to move him for a starter(Haren). Hell they won’t even move him now. Are they that high on a middle reliever. WTFFFFFFFF

  159. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
    Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    I gather that the Yankees don’t feel the same way.
    ++++++++++++
    We won’t really know until the end of ST

    ——————

    Gentleman’s bet on how this turns out?

  160. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    we don’t know*

  161. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    A) I think the number of fans in the “Joba should start” camp is a loud minority. Most fans just want the Yankees to win and could care less how they go about doing it.

    ///
    lol,Chip.this post implies the JSS camp harbors this wish in a vacuum that doesn’t include wanting to win.the very point is,developing your own pitching is the best foundation for putting together winning seasons.

  162. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    # Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    I wonder how many ppl within the organization are hounding him about Joba starting. If fans want to see him start again and bring it up one has to think ppl inside the club are voicing their opinions.
    +++++++++++++++
    Also, I wonder if the fans hound them enough, will the brothers and Levine over rule Cashman?

    ———————————

    If they do – Cashman walks.

    When Randy Levine starts making baseball decisions like that the Yankees will be in a world of hurt.

    ——————————

    Seems like a friend of mine was right when he spoke about Levine.

  163. hardwired7 January 19th, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    “ban mode”

    Reminds me of the old Pete Abe days. You had to watch your step around here, lest you get the beatdown.

    Looking back on it, what a breath of fresh air Chad and Sam have been.

  164. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    Well if he’s not good enough to start for the club and he’s not good enough to be a reliever why did they refuse to move him for a starter(Haren). Hell they won’t even move him now. Are they that high on a middle reliever. WTFFFFFFFF

    ///

    :D. it IS bizarre,isn’t it?

  165. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    I wonder how many ppl within the organization are hounding him about Joba starting. If fans want to see him start again and bring it up one has to think ppl inside the club are voicing their opinions.
    +++++++++++++++
    Also, I wonder if the fans hound them enough, will the brothers and Levine over rule Cashman?

    ———————————

    If they do – Cashman walks.
    ++++++++++++++
    Big deal–I could stand to see Oppenheimer in the role.

  166. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    # BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    I wonder how many ppl within the organization are hounding him about Joba starting. If fans want to see him start again and bring it up one has to think ppl inside the club are voicing their opinions.
    +++++++++++++++
    Also, I wonder if the fans hound them enough, will the brothers and Levine over rule Cashman?

    But I do agree with the earlier comment that Rothschild may have the biggest say in this at the end of the day.

    ——————————

    It will be interesting to see what Rothschild says but I doubt he would deviate from what has already been said. I guess we’ll have to see.

  167. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    —————————————-

    Well if he’s not good enough to start for the club and he’s not good enough to be a reliever why did they refuse to move him for a starter(Haren). Hell they won’t even move him now. Are they that high on a middle reliever. WTFFFFFFFF

    _________________________

    He’s good enough to be a reliever – not their second most trusted reliever but a reliever.

    And they’re not moving him for the same reason the Mets aren’t moving Jose Reyes and the Royals aren’t moving Alex Gordon and the Dodgers aren’t moving Matt Kemp…you don’t trade a player when his value is at its absolute low.

    Ideally – the Yankees get a good effort from Joba early this season and by July there’s a market for him again where they can include him in a deal for a good mid to front end starter.

    And I agree with you – not including him in the deal for Haren was a mistake. But Cashman figured he could pass on Haren and still get Cliff Lee in the winter…my opinion, not getting Haren cost the Yankees a trip to the WS.

  168. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:21 pm
    A) I think the number of fans in the “Joba should start” camp is a loud minority. Most fans just want the Yankees to win and could care less how they go about doing it.

    ///
    lol,Chip.this post implies the JSS camp harbors this wish in a vacuum that doesn’t include wanting to win.the very point is,developing your own pitching is the best foundation for putting together winning seasons.

    —————

    Not every pitcher you try to develop though is going to work out – shoot – given the failure rate of prospects the fact that out of the three (Joba, Hughes, Kennedy) the Yankees got one viable starter in their rotation is great.

  169. jacksquat January 19th, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    I think the JSS crowd should give up and just route for him as a reliever. Management has made it very clear what they think of him for a while now.

  170. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    # J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    Well if he’s not good enough to start for the club and he’s not good enough to be a reliever why did they refuse to move him for a starter(Haren). Hell they won’t even move him now. Are they that high on a middle reliever. WTFFFFFFFF

    ///

    :D . it IS bizarre,isn’t it?

    ——————————-

    Bizarre isn’t the word. But hey if he turns it around I’ll support which I’m sure everyone will.

  171. blake January 19th, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    I don’t think its a certainty that the Dbacks wanted Joba for Haren…. I think the Yankees would trade him but not for what his value would bring right now. Problem is that its going to be hard to increase that value in his current role.

  172. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    JAP

    Never thought you in the JSS camp don’t want the Yankees to win. But I think you have to move off of this false hope that the 2011 Joba is the same as the 2007 Joba – he’s not. Doesn’t have the same promise or potential as that Joba did.

  173. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    How out of touch with reality is this moron?

    FIRE HIM NOW!

    ////
    right, fire him! who would want a pitcher who doesn’t walk anybody?

  174. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    R.I.P. to Bob Heussler’s wife.

  175. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    It will be interesting to see what Rothschild says but I doubt he would deviate from what has already been said. I guess we’ll have to see.
    ++++++++++++++
    I think whomever made the point earlier mentioned that Rothschild would sell it internally and it would then happen. Might take all of ST. Someone else mentioned that they could throw him multiple innings in ST under the guise of a middle reliever, and work up his stamina to late in ST, then pitch him in extended ST for 30 days.

  176. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
    Well if he’s not good enough to start for the club and he’s not good enough to be a reliever why did they refuse to move him for a starter(Haren). Hell they won’t even move him now. Are they that high on a middle reliever. WTFFFFFFFF

    ///

    . it IS bizarre,isn’t it?

    —————–

    Not bizarre at all – what benefit is there in trading a guy when his value is at its aboslute lowest?

  177. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Do we really know if Joba held up the Haren deal? For some reason my mind draws a blank on the whole thing.

  178. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    “Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said he did not want to sign Rafael Soriano because he didn’t feel paying closer money to the team’s setup man made sense. And, in the end, Cashman said he did not participate in negotiations with Soriano’s agent, Scott Boras”. — ESPN.com

    *******************

    Interesting that Cashman didn’t negotiate Soriano’s deal. Levine did.

  179. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    # Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    —————————————-

    Well if he’s not good enough to start for the club and he’s not good enough to be a reliever why did they refuse to move him for a starter(Haren). Hell they won’t even move him now. Are they that high on a middle reliever. WTFFFFFFFF

    _________________________

    He’s good enough to be a reliever – not their second most trusted reliever but a reliever.

    And they’re not moving him for the same reason the Mets aren’t moving Jose Reyes and the Royals aren’t moving Alex Gordon and the Dodgers aren’t moving Matt Kemp…you don’t trade a player when his value is at its absolute low.

    Ideally – the Yankees get a good effort from Joba early this season and by July there’s a market for him again where they can include him in a deal for a good mid to front end starter.

    And I agree with you – not including him in the deal for Haren was a mistake. But Cashman figured he could pass on Haren and still get Cliff Lee in the winter…my opinion, not getting Haren cost the Yankees a trip to the WS.

    ——————————————–

    The thing is they have moved players when their value was low. How high was Kennedy’s value what about Melancon’s.

    I don’t know if Haren would have put them in the WS but I guess you’re basing that on him moving Hughes down in the ALCS and having Burnett pitch out of the pen or be left off the roster.

  180. Mell January 19th, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    “Watched Phelps about 3 times last year….was impressed. Seems polished and knows how to pitch”

    Numbers are quite impressive. Some similarities to Ian Kennedy’s minor league #s. Maybe IPK-lite. Excellent K/BB ratio and low HR rate. Excellent ERA, WHIP, and hit rate, but not quite IPK-level. Better walk rate, but K rate not quite as strong. Numbers aside, are there any similarities in the type of pitcer they are?

  181. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:28 pm
    JAP

    Never thought you in the JSS camp don’t want the Yankees to win. But I think you have to move off of this false hope that the 2011 Joba is the same as the 2007 Joba – he’s not. Doesn’t have the same promise or potential as that Joba did.

    ////
    Hey Chip,I’m not interested in 2007 Joba, who was a reliever.If I could get 2008 Joba, well hell yea.But I would settle for 2009 Joba before the shenanigans got under way,& I would settle for his 2010 velocity :D.I’m not banking on some storybook year for Chamberlain,as you keep insisting.I’ve already said here that he needs to pitch credibly as a Number 4,but I guess you didn’t take that in.Now,what I will add was,Joba’s potential has to be based on what he’s already actually done,not on your concept of his new ceiling.Neither you nor I, nor the yankees, know what that is.The bottom line is, a middling Joba as a Number 4 is more valuable than a middling middle relieving Joba,and I will go out on a limb to say that middling Joba who would solve a warm body starter issue is capable of more.

  182. rodg12 January 19th, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    # West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    “Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said he did not want to sign Rafael Soriano because he didn’t feel paying closer money to the team’s setup man made sense. And, in the end, Cashman said he did not participate in negotiations with Soriano’s agent, Scott Boras”. — ESPN.com

    *******************

    Interesting that Cashman didn’t negotiate Soriano’s deal. Levine did.
    ———————————————————————————————-
    What good does it do the Yankees that this stuff is coming out? I say absolutely none. Frankly, it ticks me off that this is coming out.

  183. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:28 pm
    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    It will be interesting to see what Rothschild says but I doubt he would deviate from what has already been said. I guess we’ll have to see.
    ++++++++++++++
    I think whomever made the point earlier mentioned that Rothschild would sell it internally and it would then happen. Might take all of ST. Someone else mentioned that they could throw him multiple innings in ST under the guise of a middle reliever, and work up his stamina to late in ST, then pitch him in extended ST for 30 days.
    —————-

    You’re grasping at straws. If the Yankees want Joba to start they’re not going to be coy about it – they’ll just do it.

    It’s not an evaluation that will be determined in games – it’s something they will see in side sessions.

    In addition, it’s not even just about stretching him out – it’s also about giving him an arsenal to make it through a lineup 3 times, secondary pitches that he didn’t use at all last year and weren’t all that sharp to begin with have to be rediscovered and refined.

    But before any of that – Joba has to come into camp in shape. And while round is indeed a shape and shows a high level of dedication to snacking and drinking – it will not help him earn the confidence of his manager or general manager that he should earn another shot at the rotation.

  184. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    # BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    It will be interesting to see what Rothschild says but I doubt he would deviate from what has already been said. I guess we’ll have to see.
    ++++++++++++++
    I think whomever made the point earlier mentioned that Rothschild would sell it internally and it would then happen. Might take all of ST. Someone else mentioned that they could throw him multiple innings in ST under the guise of a middle reliever, and work up his stamina to late in ST, then pitch him in extended ST for 30 days.

    ——————————————-

    Yea pitching him as a middle reliever in ST could work towards him starting. Camp will be interesting that’s for sure.

  185. Dassit January 19th, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    # Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Do we really know if Joba held up the Haren deal? For some reason my mind draws a blank on the whole thing.

    IIRC correctly there were reports of the D-Backs wanting the Yankees to take on some trash/bad contracts like Qualls and Snyder. Or even demanding Betances to be in the deal.

  186. Mell January 19th, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    “R.I.P. to Bob Heussler’s wife.”

    Indeed. And to Alphonso Soriano’s mother.

  187. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    ——————————————–

    The thing is they have moved players when their value was low. How high was Kennedy’s value what about Melancon’s.

    I don’t know if Haren would have put them in the WS but I guess you’re basing that on him moving Hughes down in the ALCS and having Burnett pitch out of the pen or be left off the roster.
    ————————

    They traded Melancon for an ineffective Fat Elvis in a pure salary dump by Houston.

    Kennedy had to be combined with the Yankees’ #2 prospect and an established ML reliever to get a player of value back.

  188. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    Yep him being in the proper condition is important

  189. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    Unless Haren was going to hit, I don’t think he was the key to the WS.

  190. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    Lee would of gotten us to the ws. I would have liked Haren though alot.

  191. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    They were still traded at low points were they not. But I see what you’re saying.

  192. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    Not every pitcher you try to develop though is going to work out – shoot – given the failure rate of prospects the fact that out of the three (Joba, Hughes, Kennedy) the Yankees got one viable starter in their rotation is great.

    ////

    The point is they didn’t TRY, Chip. They think they have a valid reason,fine, I’d love to hear it, because this young man didn’t have a problem increasing his velocity last year,which indicates his arm is probably good to go.

    One viable starter from the group? Why is that great if they could have had, and still could have, two?? Sorry,I find these posts vanilla. Shoot, let’s be full of gratitude for Hughes?? Sometimes life doesn’t work out?? LMAO, they never sent the kid back down when he struggled, they put in rules so stupid even C.C. said they would be impossible to cope with for anyone, then they make up some competition they had pre-determined last ST, and then announce he’ll never start again?

    Get your nostrils checked out there, Chip.

  193. upstate kate January 19th, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    I don’t know why people have to be labeled so black and white, you are in the JSS camp or not. There are many shades of gray
    If there is no physical reason why Joba can’t start (which we don’t know) then I would like to see him given the opportunity.
    Perhaps there is a valid reason beyond some alleged Cashman grudge.
    We also don’t know what Joba did during the OS, or who he talked to, or what his personal preference is.

  194. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    Chip -

    After returning from the DL, Berkman was indeed effective and was one of the very few bright spots during the playoffs.

    Arizona specifically wanted Kennedy.

  195. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:37 pm
    Yep him being in the proper condition is important

    ————-

    It would impress the heck out of me if he came in looking like Brian Bruney did his last couple of years here.

    I’m sure it would impress the Yankees too.

    Either way – I’ll be thrilled when spring training is over, Joba is a reliever and this conversation is put to rest for good.

  196. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    If the innings cap bothered Joba that much then he really doesn’t belong being a sp.

  197. hardwired7 January 19th, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    The # that really jumps out at you about Phelps is the W-L:

    31-8

    ridiculous.

  198. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    Chip, judging by Cash’s comments, Hal has already decided to take over some of the GM duties. I’m really sorry to hear his comments as to me this indicates that there IS a split in someway. Obviously they don’t agree on the importance of draft picks (I didn’t hear the presser, but Cash saying this makes them a better team this year implies that they will be worse for it down the road. George, Jr.?). Hal has already put the kibbosh on some deals that Cash wanted to do, like Cameron. I like Soriano and think this is a good move, but it’s absolutely terrible that Cash got overruled like this. How smart of it was Cash anyway to be this honest? The media is going to drool all over this.

  199. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    Chip–

    We obviously are on different pages regarding our opinion of Joba–which is fine. Time will tell what happens, not our bantering here…

    I and others here will continue to push the topic though, as we hope to keep the pressure on something we as fans would like to see. Irregardless of your opinions or arguments, we feel he would be fine as a #4 starter, and we fell it makes all the sense in the world to try it when his value is so low.

    It doesn’t mean I don’t respect your opinions on other issues (except for trading Gardner), it just means this one is one we will probably never agree on.

  200. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    YankeesWFAN Yanks made 1-year offer to Pavano for around $10 mil plus incentives. Went to Twins for 2-yr deal in the end.

    ___

    They actually offered a deal?

    I guess 1 year wouldnt have been bad.

  201. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    Betsy-

    I hope you’re wrong. I don’t want to see Hal or Levine push Cashman out. Or undermine him on decisions. Not sure why this has to be discussed publicly.

  202. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    Someone else mentioned that they could throw him multiple innings in ST under the guise of a middle reliever, and work up his stamina to late in ST, then pitch him in extended ST for 30 days.

    ///
    that was also my contention when I joined this site (and earlier over at RAB).I don’t see why not, although these strident protests from Cashman are either a deliberate smokescreen or he really has become napoleon & wants the issue to just go away.it just makes sense that joba fits the rothschild profile,& if they’re not all pumped up to make him their setup guy,if he can return to some prominence in terms of mechanics and the velo we saw last season,a re-shuffle makes sense.

  203. Mike Ri January 19th, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    Ac1- He hasn’t accepted the Twins offer as of yet right ???

  204. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
    Not every pitcher you try to develop though is going to work out – shoot – given the failure rate of prospects the fact that out of the three (Joba, Hughes, Kennedy) the Yankees got one viable starter in their rotation is great.

    ////

    The point is they didn’t TRY, Chip. They think they have a valid reason,fine, I’d love to hear it, because this young man didn’t have a problem increasing his velocity last year,which indicates his arm is probably good to go.

    One viable starter from the group? Why is that great if they could have had, and still could have, two?? Sorry,I find these posts vanilla. Shoot, let’s be full of gratitude for Hughes?? Sometimes life doesn’t work out?? LMAO, they never sent the kid back down when he struggled, they put in rules so stupid even C.C. said they would be impossible to cope with for anyone, then they make up some competition they had pre-determined last ST, and then announce he’ll never start again?

    Get your nostrils checked out there, Chip.

    ———————————

    The Yankees are under no obligation to tell us what their internal thoughts are on a player. In fact as a fan I would be confused as to why they would tell us their internal thoughts on a player.

    As I said earlier, there’s nothing they can say about why they’re keeping Joba in the pen that could possibly HELP his value to the club other than “that’s where we think he’s best suited.”

    Cashman’s not going to say, “I know this hurts his trade value, but the fans have a right to know. We’re keeping Joba in the pen because his shoulder isn’t sound enough to hold up to starting.”

    Don’t get me wrong – I think they completely butchered the development of Chamberlain. I never would have let him start those games in 2008 in the majors. I would have sent him to AAA where he could stretch out properly in situations where wins and losses don’t make a difference. I never would have messed around with his innings in 2009 either. I would have started him in the minors that year and then brought him up when he could pitch regularly like the Rays did with David Price. But what’s done is done. Screwing with him even more isn’t going to undo the damage.

    Joba Chamberlain is a relief pitcher. That’s all.

  205. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    Oh yeah, and we only have 4 starters, so where exactly is Cash going at this point? As it is we’re handing Nova a job based on a few starts last year.

  206. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    # Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:37 pm
    Yep him being in the proper condition is important

    ————-

    It would impress the heck out of me if he came in looking like Brian Bruney did his last couple of years here.

    I’m sure it would impress the Yankees too.

    Either way – I’ll be thrilled when spring training is over, Joba is a reliever and this conversation is put to rest for good.

    ——————————————-

    Yea it would. I was one of those guys that said he’s a big guy and will always be big but as the season went on I thought he needs to get into better shape. Now he’s never going to be a runway model but he can lose a few pounds.

    It will be put to rest only if the rotation doesn’t stub it’s toe. It Mitre and Nova are in the rotation you can bet your life that it will start again.

  207. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Ac1- He hasn’t accepted the Twins offer as of yet right ???

    __

    says he already took a physical, so im guessing it is just a matter of the small things.

  208. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
    Chip–

    We obviously are on different pages regarding our opinion of Joba–which is fine. Time will tell what happens, not our bantering here…

    I and others here will continue to push the topic though, as we hope to keep the pressure on something we as fans would like to see. Irregardless of your opinions or arguments, we feel he would be fine as a #4 starter, and we fell it makes all the sense in the world to try it when his value is so low.

    It doesn’t mean I don’t respect your opinions on other issues (except for trading Gardner), it just means this one is one we will probably never agree on.

    —————

    That’s cool – it would be a boring world if everyone agreed on everything.

  209. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes January 19th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Not an ideal situation, but if you can get a guy like Pavano on a 1 year deal with an option for a 2nd, then the Yankees have to consider it.

    But I agree, the first sign of a poor outing would be the beginning of the end with the fan reactions.

    Yankees are up against the wall here…I don’t really see any other option besides a patchwork rotation after CC, AJ, and Hughes.

    To make a long story short, if those guys don’t perform very well, the Yankees are in BIG trouble from a starting pitching perspective.

    Not sure why they aren’t trying to get Bonderman at this point. He’s worth the risk and he’s still VERY young.

    I wouldn’t consider guys like Freddy Garcia or Kevin Millwood, but that’s just me.

  210. Mike Ri January 19th, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    thanks for the info ac1

  211. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    I would also doubt there is some Cashman “grudge” against Chamberlain. For heck’s sake, the man was in serious discussions to bring back Pavano.

  212. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    Slim pickings on the sp front.

  213. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
    ——————————————-

    Yea it would. I was one of those guys that said he’s a big guy and will always be big but as the season went on I thought he needs to get into better shape. Now he’s never going to be a runway model but he can lose a few pounds.

    It will be put to rest only if the rotation doesn’t stub it’s toe. It Mitre and Nova are in the rotation you can bet your life that it will start again.
    ————————

    I don’t think so – I don’t think anyone wants a repeat of the 2008 experiment where they tried to convert him to a starter mid season.

  214. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes January 19th, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    And for the record:

    I am HIGHLY disappointed in Andy Pettitte’s indecision.

    Stay or Leave…whatever you decide is fine, but DECIDE already. Give the fans and the team something definitive.

  215. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    “Oh yeah, and we only have 4 starters, so where exactly is Cash going at this point?”

    Well, we know where he wanted to go. Pavano on a high one year deal. Good or bad, that speaks volumes about the alternatives.

  216. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    Oh brother, is Cashman kidding? Nova is being handed a start and now what, we’re going to choose betwen a bunch of AAAers? 2008 is not a good analogy because Phil was hurt – we don’t know how he would have done had he stayed healthy, but I am sure he would not have been that bad. Is he kidding? Awful………..and the idea that a good pen is going to be able to overcome lousy SP, where every pitcher except CC is a ? (even if you want to say Hughes isn’t, then fine – all other pitchers are a ?) is folly. The pen will be worn down before the end of May.

  217. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    Pettitte is not doing the Yankees any favors by saying “go about your business”. The Yankees need him now.

  218. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    With all the Joba talk, I think the “Jeter is going to hit leadoff” comment has been largely ignored.

  219. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    Well Betsy if you have a good plan I would love to hear it lol. Because the Yankees are not in a good position here.

  220. blake January 19th, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    Mell,

    Yea I compared Phelps to IPK in a post a few weeks ago. Kennedy was the better prospect probably because of his CU but I see simarities in their “pitchability”..both guys seem to have a good idea what they are doing out there. Phelps is a little bigger I think and probably throws a little harder. ..I think his ceiling will be determined by whether he’s able to develop a true plus secondary pitch.

  221. bruceb January 19th, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    This whole story smacks of desperation on Cashman’s part. When I heard they were signing Soriano, I thought they must be planning to use him in a future trade for a front line starting pitcher. Somewhere down the line, a huge sacrifice will have to be made as there is no way the Yanks can go into the 2011 season with two-and-a-half starting pitchers. You can guess who the half is.

  222. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    Wave, Cash wanted Pavano a couple of years ago – I don’t think his looking into him now means that every other option sucks. That said, there has to be some option. He’s an idiot if he intends to go into a rotation with Nova and some kid. I don’t love Nova anyway and he’s going to be a normal #5 – meaning don’t expect much. Now we’re going to have 2 kids in the rotation?

    I think Joba should be given another shot, but I’m not nearly as upset with the decision not to start him as others……….I’m going to assume that his shoulder is funny and they don’t think he can hold up.

  223. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    # Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
    ——————————————-

    Yea it would. I was one of those guys that said he’s a big guy and will always be big but as the season went on I thought he needs to get into better shape. Now he’s never going to be a runway model but he can lose a few pounds.

    It will be put to rest only if the rotation doesn’t stub it’s toe. It Mitre and Nova are in the rotation you can bet your life that it will start again.
    ————————

    I don’t think so – I don’t think anyone wants a repeat of the 2008 experiment where they tried to convert him to a starter mid season.

    —————————————

    Yea 2008 is still an open wound not just regarding Joba but the entire season as well. Ppl either ignore that yr or treat it as a 100 loss season.

  224. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    Something has got to give. That is for sure.

  225. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    Where else but AAA are these pitchers supposed to come from? There are no good starters on the market and no team is going to trade their best pitcher(s) to the Yankees.

    Let’s give up the season before P&C even report.

    The overreaction here is incredible.

    The inconsistencies are mindbending.

    The negativity is depressing.

    The overreaching generalizations are laughable.

  226. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    Chip January 19th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    That’s cool – it would be a boring world if everyone agreed on everything.
    ++++++++++++
    Agreed. I enjoy your posts and debating with you when needed.

  227. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    The Yankees are under no obligation to tell us what their internal thoughts are on a player. In fact as a fan I would be confused as to why they would tell us their internal thoughts on a player.

    //////

    Chip,
    never said they were under obligation to tip their hand.the point is,there’s nothing EVIDENTLY that dramatically illustrates why this kid should never be considered again for the rotation, especially with the increase in velocity last season. it’s altogether possible that the state of his mechanics is the sore point,not his health.but this is something that could be tweaked and fixed.WHY GIVE UP? Rothschild may have a better approach than Eiland.

    I don’t nor have I ever said it’s incumbent on the yankees to REVEAL anything, but I sure as hell would like to know; two different things.

  228. ConcernedCitizen January 19th, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    I hate to say this, but do we really have any other viable options? Besides, I’d LOVE to see him sweat bullets at the press conference.

  229. NYJim January 19th, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    Pettitte has never been quick to make up his mind. I remember a few years ago when he came off a mediocre season, he balked at having to accept an incentive laden contract, and we all bashed him for it. He did end up coming back to pitch really well, though… Who knows, he might be thinking of pulling a Clemens and might ask for a $20,000,000 prorated contract to pitch after the All Star Break!

    Anyway, the team’s lack of starting pitching is NOT Andy’s fault. Cash should have had a “Plan C” ready to go in case Lee and Pettitte both didn’t work out.

    Pavano would have been a bad signing. We tried the “2nd chance” thing with Vazguez and saw how wonderfully that worked. Some people just can’t hack it in NYC.

  230. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    Actually no. There are no better options then Pavano. He isn’t a bad pitcher whatsoever. His failures with the Yankees stemmed from inactivity.

  231. blake January 19th, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    Kids > Millwood.

  232. Carlo January 19th, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    Ok – so cashman is officially on record saying that he did not support nor did he participate in the soriano signing……..which again begs the question…..other than signing a pretty questionable catcher and a lefty specialist…..what exactly has Cashman done this offseason and what kind of team is he trying to put together?

    Plan B was patience…..by patience did he mean waiting years, not months, to address the teams needs?

  233. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    I am fine with Nova as the 5. Need a vet to fill in the 4 slot. Mitre is a long man at best.

  234. Mike Ri January 19th, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    Theres nothing out there ! nothing !

  235. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    “That said, there has to be some option. He’s an idiot if he intends to go into a rotation with Nova and some kid.”

    If the Yanks refuse to give Joba a chance to start and barring some miracle trade, Nova and “some kid” is the way to go, IMO.

  236. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    I actually agree with Hal on stepping in here. The Yankees had to make some sort of upgrade.

  237. 108 stitches January 19th, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    Who knows ? Chamberlain may fool everybody and report to Tampa in shape, pitch well in ST appearances, and solidify his role in the Yankee bullpen. It all depends on how Larry Rothschild can get through to him in repeating his mechanics which has been a big factor in slowing down his career. Nothing will get handed to him. He’ll have to earn any trust.

  238. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    Just saw this funny line on Daily News blog–cracked me up

    “Wed, 2011-01-19 13:51 – BradCompany

    Bottom line on Jenks–Big upside and bigger backside.”
    ++++++++
    Too true.

  239. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    The bullpen will be superhuman. I guess if you have other holes at least try and make one fantastic.

  240. Noreaster January 19th, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    Carlo, Plan B is not to waste time on worthless pitchers and wait for viable starting pitchers to come on the market later in the year. We have to get by until then.

  241. blake January 19th, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    If Andy weren’t planning on coming back then why would he be working to stay in pitching shape….just in case he changes his mind? I doubt that……the fact that he’s preparing tells me he’s going to pitch at some point in 2011.

  242. Mike Ri January 19th, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    108 stitches

    Chamberlain may fool everybody and report to Tampa in shape, pitch well in ST

    —-
    Don’t hold your breath

  243. Tom in N.J. January 19th, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    What does some kid throw?

  244. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    “The bullpen will be superhuman.”

    Assuming Soriano can stay healthy, Mo and So are great. The rest of the pen, we’ll see.

  245. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    What happens to the Yankees in april and may while Andy is preparing? The Yankees needed a full year commitment from him.

  246. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    Kids > Millwood.

    ///
    completely agree.the kid at the very least is on a learning curve & indulging his present struggles may pay off in the team’s future,even if you have to eventually capitulate & replace him for a given season.

  247. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Robertson is gonna thrive. Logan and Feliciano are good lefties. Joba is who knows. But I think the depth of the pen is great. Problem is if they get overworked.

  248. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    Robertson struggled primarily because of his back problems.I don’t see why a healthy D-Rob can’t be considered a strength in the bullpen.

  249. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    If Andy decides by Jan 26 that he will come back, why would he miss any time at all? He knows how to prepare himself, and IMO could start the season in April as #3 starter, or miss one turn at most.

  250. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    Robertson could setup on alot of teams.

  251. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    DRob K rates can’t be dismissed.

  252. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    I just don’t see Andy deciding by then.

  253. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    Doreen, don’t lecture me……….nice condescending attitude. If you’re happy with a rotation of CC, Phil, AJ and two kids, that’s great………..but it’s ridiculous that you’re attacking my post as if it’s unreasonable to be concerned about having 2 kids in a rotation that already has numerous question marks. Don’t you tell me I’m giving up on the season when that’s not what I said.

  254. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    JAP–

    BTW, someone mentioned several days ago that Joba’s troubles with FO could be that they feel he has a problem with the bottle. The poster seemed to indicate he had inside knowledge of it…(But I can’t recall who posted it).

    I suppose that type of issue could be a factor…but would have thought we would have heard more about it if true.

  255. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    The pen will be good, but superhuman? I doubt it – even a very good pen can’t overcome mediocre/bad SP.. Just how many innings are we getting from the kids? From AJ?

  256. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    Robertson hasn’t proven he can consistently set up……….

  257. Mell January 19th, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    “DRob K rates can’t be dismissed.”

    They can’t, but neither can his walk rate.

  258. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    There are things we just may not know about regarding Joba. Maybe he is a little to free with the booze. Who knows. I don’t think we know better then they do.

  259. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    Ok maybe superhuman was a tad too much. But I think it will be a very good pen. Yes the sp factors in here. If they are ineffective, the pen gets overworked etc. Girardi is great at keeping them fresh though. Has proven that since day one.

  260. Crawdaddy January 19th, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    For the Cashman Haters, you might finally get your wish for a new Yankee GM sometime this year.

  261. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    Why do you say that?

  262. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    This pen is mightier than the swore’d at rotation.

  263. Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    Craw, you think Hal and Hank are interfering enough for Cash to walk? I wonder who would want to replace him..I mean, if Cash, who’s been there for over a decade and probably likes Hal personally, walks – why would anyone else want to deal with an interfering two owners?

  264. Jacques Strappe January 19th, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Pavano.

  265. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 2:06 pm
    JAP–

    BTW, someone mentioned several days ago that Joba’s troubles with FO could be that they feel he has a problem with the bottle. The poster seemed to indicate he had inside knowledge of it…(But I can’t recall who posted it).

    I suppose that type of issue could be a factor…but would have thought we would have heard more about it if true.

    ////
    BOJO – I can’t abide gossip as a reason for scuttling a guy with Chamberlain’s upside.sure anything is possible I guess,but I have been hearing about these drinking problems now for several years & whether true or not,i have no way of knowing & I really question the intent of people who post stuff that can’t be substantiated,comes from no actual source,& that can’t be verified under game conditions.I also don’t like to see cheap shots taken at players.I file this under the same sort of ‘Cano is lazy’ thing that people were saying for a couple of yrs.what? & now he isn’t? if you know what I mean.

  266. Yank 97 January 19th, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    What is the upside to Cashman making it public that he was against the deal? Who cares who wanted it and who didn’t? He’s here now and is a good pitcher.

    I can understand why upper management would be concerned that Cash was doing nothing this winter. He can’t go from Lee to nothing.

  267. UnKnown January 19th, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    I think this is when it is really going to benefit of having Girardi as the manager and his excellence in managing the pen.

    Can anyone really imagine Torre and how he would handle this pen this year?

  268. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    Hopefully this is just an isolated incident. I don’t want to see Hal stepping in on every move Cashman may or may not make. Why even have a gm then? Probably just a case where they disagreed.

  269. bruceb January 19th, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    Betsy is right. If we weren’t concerned about the starting rotation, we wouldn’t be fans. Yes, of course, as Yankees fans we are spoilt. We are used to getting our way and starting each and every season with an all-star lineup. But there’s no hiding the fact that as things stand right now, we’re going to have the second weakest pitching lineup in the AL East.

  270. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes January 19th, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    NYJim,

    I know our rotation woes aren’t Pettitte’s fault. I didn’t assert that they were.

    And for the record, he’s never taken this long to decide.

    If he’s retiring, I want to know. I’m a huge Pettitte fan and I feel like his fans deserve to know.

    He’s not starting the year in our rotation, I think we can glean that much, but why can’t he just come out and say that.

    I think if he’s retiring its a pretty lame way to do it.

    He’s starting to remind me of Brett Favre.

  271. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    Girardi is the best I have seen at not abusing relievers.

  272. pat January 19th, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    Wasn’t every successful pitcher “some kid” at some point in time?

  273. blake January 19th, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    If there were legit options out there to improve the rotation then I would obviously prefer that to having two rookies in it. But other than Andy, it doesn’t appear that there are so in that case give me the guys who 1) cost nothing 2) can’t be sent back to SWB 3) have a chance to actually get better.

  274. UnKnown January 19th, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    Right on. As fans we will want to see Soriano and Rivera both go two innings each game (maybe a bit of an exaggeration) however Girardi will do what is best for the team and he will manage the bullpen to its fullest capabilities. All you can ask.

  275. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 2:20 pm

    Of course fans have the right to be concerned about the rotation. There are simply not many solutions right now.

  276. Tom in N.J. January 19th, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    Girardi’s the new Edward Bulwer-Lytton?

  277. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes January 19th, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    I see no reason to retain Joba if we’re not using him to set up Rivera or return him to the rotation.

    Try to maximize his value in a trade…what’s the point of keeping him if we don’t trust him to setup Mo or start?

  278. Bronx Jeers January 19th, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    Admitting you had discussions with Pavano’s agent about his return is like admitting to your spouse that you considered having an extramarital affair

    Sure you didn’t exactly do the deed but that’s irrelevant. You’re guilty. :wink:

  279. Patrick January 19th, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    I think the Yankee bullpen is pretty great, not sure where the skepticism is coming from some of you.

  280. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    # The Mad Prince in Pinstripes January 19th, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    Try to maximize his value in a trade…what’s the point of keeping him if we don’t trust him to setup Mo or start?

    —————————————-

    Too much pride and ego

  281. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    Joba could be trade bait during the year. I know for a fact someone will take a shot.

  282. G. Love January 19th, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    Jeers for the win!

  283. EA January 19th, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    “why would anyone else want to deal with an interfering two owners?”

    Because, contrary to what Cashman may believe, there is not a single GM that has full autonomy.

    He has been there 12 years. He knows the deal. There are expensive seats to sell and TV ratings to worry about. The last thing Hal wants is what happened to Boston this past year (and look at how Boston reacted to their bad year, which they could have very easily and acceptably chalked up to mass injuries).

    It’s not like the owners forced him to trade young players or anything. Asking him to sign the best reliever available to address a shaky bullpen (and chances are, like most Boras clients, he will opt out after a good year and Cash will get his beloved picks anyway next year) is hardly asking a lot. Part of the job description is placating the fanbase.

  284. 108 stitches January 19th, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 2:17 pm
    Girardi is the best I have seen at not abusing relievers.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    You’ve made believers out of Paul Quantrill, Tom Gordon, Scott Proctor, and Tanyon Sturtze. Foremost authorities on bullpen burnout.

  285. Melk Man January 19th, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    SI_JonHeyman
    #yankees like damon and believe he might be able to help tortured aj burnett. but damon can get more time w/ #angels or #rays

    Too funny.

  286. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes January 19th, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    Against All Odds,

    I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. Could be but perhaps Sweet Swingin Cano is right…maybe they want to deal him during the season with the hopes of getting a higher return.

    If I could get a 3rd or 4th quality starter in exchange for Joba and someone else, I’d do it.

    Otherwise, I’d tell him to prepare to be a starter this season because he is not necessary in the bullpen. Especially with guys like Robertson and Logan in the pen.

  287. upstate kate January 19th, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    don’t know if anyone caught this most important tidbit during the presser…Cashman referred to Soriano as “Raffy”…might take awhile for the “So to Mo” catches on

  288. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    A writer asked FO about sending Joba to SWB and waivers, and the FO guy said it wouldn’t be a problem because the team could always pull Joba back.

    Everyone is assuming that means he could be sent down, but I think that is wrong. It means the Yankees could pull him back but he would have to remain where he is…he couldn’t be sent down.

    The only way for him to get extended time in minors to work on any mechanics is if he fakes an injury and does his 1 month of rehab time. Then he has to be called up or put through waivers to get to SWB. Someone will claim him, and then he has to be recalled or lost.

    Just wanted to respond to this since it got a lot of discussion this morning but it is incorrect. Joba has 3 options remaining and has less than 5 years of service time. This means he cannot object to being optioned to the minors. Due to a rule which supposedly exists but is not located in the CBA, he has to pass through optional waivers to be sent to the minors. Players are never taken off of optional waivers by opposing teams. There is a gentleman’s agreement not to do it because it stops teams from being able to send down players.

    Keith Law asked a front office person and the reply was that teams never take players off of these waivers. Additionally, if someone were to do that the Yankees could always pull him back. But no one does, so it doesn’t really matter.

    This is very different from the time the Yankees claimed Carter off of waivers to mess with the Mets a bit. Wagner was traded on WAIVERS after the trade deadline. After the trade deadline, every player who is traded must pass through trade waivers before being eligible to be traded. If a team claims the player in this time, they can either release the entire contract to that team (as the blue jays did with Rios), work a trade, or pull back the player. If they put them on waivers a 2nd time then they cannot pull the player back.

    Wagner did not make it through waivers, the Red Sox claimed him. Then when the Red Sox put their player through waivers to try and finish the deal, the Yankees claimed him. This was not optional waivers.

    There are many different types of Waivers. Joba could be sent to the minors if the yankees chose.

  289. Crawdaddy January 19th, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    “Craw, you think Hal and Hank are interfering enough for Cash to walk? I wonder who would want to replace him..I mean, if Cash, who’s been there for over a decade and probably likes Hal personally, walks – why would anyone else want to deal with an interfering two owners?”

    Let’s get real here. Cashman has been wean by one of the most interfering owners in baseball so I don’t think it has anything to do with that.

    I just think Cashman is willing to gamble his job security by not making a bad deal during his last year of his contract or the very least wait a while before he gets too nervous and starts making deals in which he overpays.

  290. Jacques Strappe January 19th, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    If they had signed him, both he and the Yanks would have to consider the bang per buck he yielded in his previous Yanks contract, and some way to balance it out.

    My idea would be that Pavano sign for the league minimum as a guaranteed amount. No bonuses for less than, for example, maybe 25 starts & 150 innings. And bonuses adding up to the annual the amount he was paid in his previous Yanks contract for maybe everything beyond. Those bonuses would include 25 & 30 starts, and not missing any starts. Also a few plateaus for quality starts, a bonus for each win past 15, throw in 2 or 3 innings plateaus (180, 200, 220), league rank in ERA, rank in the Cy young voting (different amounts through only the top 5) for 1 year guaranteed, with 3 team option years where the base pay (and thus max pay) could be boosted by 1 million each year.

    So if he shows up and pitches, like he actually can (“if healthy” was the joke) then he makes at least what he made in the wasted years. If not, he takes take the minimum and then sayonara.

  291. Joe from Long Island January 19th, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    G.Love –

    1. Very nice post yesterday.

    2. re: Cash saying he had talked with Pavano’s agent – I wonder if saying that was meant for another audience, other than fans. By that I mean, that Cash’s real motive was in advertising that he gives all players the benefit of the doubt, believes in them, and wants their agents to always consider the Yankees. Because, really, nobody in their right mind would really consider Yankees-Pavano Round II.

  292. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    Mell January 19th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
    “DRob K rates can’t be dismissed.”

    They can’t, but neither can his walk rate.

    ///
    sure he walks too many guys.he’s got excellent stuff though & I’ll hang my hat on those strikeouts,which can erase BBs.

  293. G. Love January 19th, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    I do think it’s a little short sighted to think that any GM in baseball has pure autonomy from ownership. Even the great brilliant Theo must get Henry’s approval before tying his shoes.

    And for the record, I like that the owners wanted to load up the pen in spite of what their GM thought.

    I’ve never felt Cashman was one of the great baseball minds of his time. He makes mistakes. The owners make mistakes.

    However, at the end of the day they put great teams on the field.

    Now add a rotation piece please!

  294. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    I can’t abide gossip as a reason for scuttling a guy with Chamberlain’s upside.sure anything is possible I guess,but I have been hearing about these drinking problems now for several years & whether true or not,i have no way of knowing

    Day Night Splits

    Day: 114 IP 4.42 ERA
    Night: 239.1 IP 3.46 ERA

    Hungover much?

  295. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    hahaa that is great

  296. G. Love January 19th, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    Joe from LI,

    Thanks. I’m glad you liked it!

    And your 2nd point about Cashman’s perception by the players and agents by not closing any doors is a good one I didn’t think of. Fans can hold grudges, but it’s probably a little wise for the front office not to.

  297. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    Betsy -

    In case you haven’t noticed, it’s NOT just you so my post was not directed toward you specifically.

  298. Jacques Strappe January 19th, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    I agree it’s absurd, but if Pavano was willing to do it that way it would allow him to earn some respect back rather than always deserving resentment from the teammates (and fans) he had before.

  299. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    Also a few plateaus for quality starts, a bonus for each win past 15, throw in 2 or 3 innings plateaus (180, 200, 220), league rank in ERA, rank in the Cy young voting (different amounts through only the top 5)

    You can only have bonuses for playing time, not ERA or quality starts or anything. Also starting in the next year or two if you have bonuses related to awards voting you are ineligible for that award.

  300. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    Betsy January 19th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
    Chip, judging by Cash’s comments, Hal has already decided to take over some of the GM duties. I’m really sorry to hear his comments as to me this indicates that there IS a split in someway. Obviously they don’t agree on the importance of draft picks (I didn’t hear the presser, but Cash saying this makes them a better team this year implies that they will be worse for it down the road. George, Jr.?). Hal has already put the kibbosh on some deals that Cash wanted to do, like Cameron. I like Soriano and think this is a good move, but it’s absolutely terrible that Cash got overruled like this. How smart of it was Cash anyway to be this honest? The media is going to drool all over this.

    ————————

    The point of this that I most agree with is that Cashman has been very unusual in his public comments this winter.

    He was extremely testy about the Jeter stuff and then to pour even a little gasoline on the fire by admitting that he was against this signing and even saying that “29 other GMs would love to have their owners force Soriano on them”

    I’m starting to wonder if Brian is about ready to walk away from this job.

  301. Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    He has no contract for 2012. Maybe he will step down?

  302. Jacques Strappe January 19th, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    GLove / Joe from LI …

    “re: Cash saying he had talked with Pavano’s agent”

    Besides Pavano, what other clients of Pavano’s agent could Cashman have talked about with Pavano’s agent? :)

  303. Jacques Strappe January 19th, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    Jerkface … good points. Just thinking in general terms without knowing the rules. It’d never happen anyways.

  304. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    Sweet Swinging Cano January 19th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
    He has no contract for 2012. Maybe he will step down?

    —————–

    Based on his comments and general tone – it wouldn’t shock me

  305. upstate kate January 19th, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    oh come on, surely some of you have had disagreements w/ your boss. I argue w/ mine all the time. Sometimes he sees things my way, sometimes not. That doesn’t mean I would walk away, or be fired from my job.

  306. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    Did anyone catch Girardi confirming Pettitte is working out? That was a LOHUD scoop first brought to you by me a week ago.

  307. 108 stitches January 19th, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 2:06 pm
    JAP–

    BTW, someone mentioned several days ago that Joba’s troubles with FO could be that they feel he has a problem with the bottle. The poster seemed to indicate he had inside knowledge of it…(But I can’t recall who posted it).

    I suppose that type of issue could be a factor…but would have thought we would have heard more about it if true.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Don’t know about the booze but I once posted about his love for the hotties that hang around above the Yankee bullpen in ST and elsewhere.
    I’ve seen them float down dollar bills after writing their phone numbers on them for Joba to catch and wave back at them.
    Rather than take the money and give it to a security man to return, he stuffs the bills in uniform pockets as his teammates laugh AT him.
    What he does on his own time is his business but what he does in uniform in front of fans and teammates is another. I’ve seen fans taking pictures of it on cellphones.
    Maybe some of this got back to Girardi / Cashman

  308. upstate kate January 19th, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    did you really know Jerkface, or were you speculating?

  309. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    If he wants to drink,assuming he does,that’s his business.As long as he can pitch.

  310. Against All Odds January 19th, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    # The Mad Prince in Pinstripes January 19th, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    Against All Odds,

    I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. Could be but perhaps Sweet Swingin Cano is right…maybe they want to deal him during the season with the hopes of getting a higher return.

    If I could get a 3rd or 4th quality starter in exchange for Joba and someone else, I’d do it.

    Otherwise, I’d tell him to prepare to be a starter this season because he is not necessary in the bullpen. Especially with guys like Robertson and Logan in the pen.

    ———————————–

    I would be in favor of that as well because he benefits the team either by trade or staying with the club and helping them in the rotation.

  311. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    oh.

    that explains why he can’t repeat his mechanics.

  312. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    did you really know Jerkface, or were you speculating?

    I told you I had a source.

  313. DaSaint007 January 19th, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    Takeaways from today:

    Cashman’s sometimes too candid.
    Ownership clearly wanted to compensate for the Lee loss.
    Pavano was a real option. Is a real option until confirmation that he’s signed with Minny.
    Joba will be a reliever going into ST.
    Andy may yet return since he’s working out.
    The effort to pare down payroll is very real. Minor league talent is key component.
    Boras will likely have one of his clients (Jones or Damon) signed by the Yankees.

  314. Mell January 19th, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    “sure he walks too many guys.he’s got excellent stuff though & I’ll hang my hat on those strikeouts,which can erase BBs”

    K rates are great, but Robertson puts 13 baserunners on per 9. That’s not a lockdown quality number.

  315. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    I’d trade Joba too,but his value at present wouldn’t bring back enough.If he goes in a package,it means giving up other young arms most likely.So,failing to develop Joba costs him & other guys who could help in the future to find a pitcher that Joba might have been with a bit more patience.

  316. J. Alfred Prufrock January 19th, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    Mell,

    He has that inclination to walk people but those results were out of hand because he had a back injury.

  317. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    upstate kate January 19th, 2011 at 2:48 pm
    oh come on, surely some of you have had disagreements w/ your boss. I argue w/ mine all the time. Sometimes he sees things my way, sometimes not. That doesn’t mean I would walk away, or be fired from my job.

    ————————-

    There’s a difference though between your disagreements with your boss and Cashman’s with his.

    The main one being yours are kept internal (most likely) and not put out there in the press.

    I’m not saying Brian, Levine and the SteinBrothers always have to be on the same page – but for a guy who has typically played internal matters very close to the vest it is odd for him to put this much out there for the media to run with.

  318. DaSaint007 January 19th, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    The A’s designated infielder Steve Tolleson for assignment to make room for Brian Fuentes on the 40-man roster, the team announced.

    Tolleson made his major league debut last year, batting .286/.340/.408 in 53 plate appearances. The 27-year-old spent most of the season at Triple-A Sacramento, where he hit a robust .332/.412/.503 in 339 plate appearances. The 2005 fifth round selection has extensive minor league experience at second and short, plus some experience at third base and in the outfield.

    ————————————–
    Could be a nice pickup for depth at Scranton.

  319. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
    ++++++++++++
    Jerkface–my point was that Theo would not forget how Cashman foiled his plans, and would move to stop Cashman from sending Joba to minors. I might be wrong, but I think it is a huge risk to plan on being able to do that.

  320. Tom in N.J. January 19th, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Is Steve Tolleson related to Wayne Tolleson?

  321. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Jerkface–my point was that Theo would not forget how Cashman foiled his plans, and would move to stop Cashman from sending Joba to minors. I might be wrong, but I think it is a huge risk to plan on being able to do that.

    If he did that the Yankees could simply claim every Red Sox top prospect optioned to the minors. It won’t happen. I think it is unfounded to suggest it even. It has never happened, ever.

  322. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
    ++++++
    BTW, you are wrong about the Carter transaction. It was optional waivers and he got pulled back

    http://larrybrownsports.com/ba.....ivers/9028

  323. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    No, BoJo, I am not wrong about Carter:

    Since we’re past July 31st, all traded players must first clear waivers.

    There is a difference between optional waivers, trade waivers, and regular waivers.

  324. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    I’ll take your word for it then…

  325. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    Trade waivers, the waivers players must clear before being eligible for trade to any team after jul 31, are revocable. Just like optional waivers.

    Because of the way the waivers work, it goes by league then by record, the Yankees had a shot at Carter before the Mets, and claimed him. The Red Sox pulled him back.

  326. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    The Red Sox, if they wanted, could have optioned Carter to the minors. They could not have traded him without him clearing waivers. That is the issue. To trade anyone after Jul 31 they have to clear waivers.

  327. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    G. Love -

    Your 2:36 post –

    That’s all I’m asking for. A little perspective. Step back a bit. Consider that just maybe the sky isn’t falling.

    ***

    As a fan, of course I’d love to go into spring training with everything tied up in a bow. But I personally don’t see a need to go berzerk just because everything didn’t workout the way I’d have liked. And usually nothing is served by making grand assumptions about the state of the relationship in the Yankees’ front office. At the end of the day, the Steinbrenners rehired Cashman and they have been lockstep in the effort to strengthen the minor league system and trying not to waste money at the ML level for quick fixes.

    They had a difference of opinion on Soriano. So what? They didn’t ask for Cashman’s resignation and Cashman did not quit.

    It’s been a strange off-season in that the Yankees really had one outside interest that that outside interest spurned their attentions. Face it, there’s been nothing out there the whole time. Certainly nothing risk-free and/or cost effective (Greinke high risk/high cost, would be the only pitcher of quality available this off-season.) I don’t like moves just for the sake of appeasing the fan base.

    I don’t see the Soriano move in strictly that light. It does appease the fan base in that it brought the second best closer to the Yankees fold and gives them some great options in the bullpen which is not a small thing if you’re going into the season with question marks in your starting rotation.

    Also, it is apparent that the Steinbrenners have given Cashman a budget guideline and he is sticking to it. If the owners want to overrule him on budget or how to spend that budget, that’s their right.

    Whatever.

  328. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    Pavano would have been an excellent addition on a 1 year deal.

    The Yankees should offer two and beat the Twins offer.

    Judging from Rosenthal’s report Pavano is fine coming back to the Bronx.

    Offer Pavano that 2nd year.

  329. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    As much as I may dislike Joba at this stage; the Yankees will never get him through waivers.

  330. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    There are four kinds of waivers:

    outright
    optional
    unconditional release
    trade

    Think about waivers as teams getting permission from other teams to make a roster move. Outright waivers are what happens when teams take a player off the 40-man roster. Optional waivers are for some players (but not all) who are optioned back to the minors but stay on the 40-man roster. Unconditional release waivers are self-explanatory. Trade waivers are what we’re going through now.

    Teams can place seven players a day on the waiver wire. Teams routinely do this to nearly every player on the roster. You do this to gather information about a possible trade for now or in the future. Or maybe you waive a few stars to try and hide the fact you’re waiving somebody else you do want to trade.

    By default, any player claimed is automatically pulled off waivers unless Major League Baseball is told otherwise.

    If a player is claimed and the original team wants to make a deal, clubs have two business days to make a deal. A team can claim players based by league affiliation, lowest winning percentage first. Basically, American League players go through the American League first before they get to the National League teams.

    So, if you hear the Dodgers put Players, X, Y and Z on waivers, it doesn’t mean they’re trying to unload them; it’s just the General Manager, giving himself options just in case something does happen.

    http://www.sportsunderground.c.....b-waivers/

  331. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    As much as I may dislike Joba at this stage; the Yankees will never get him through waivers.

    Trade waivers? Probably not. Optional waivers? Yes they definitely would get him through.

  332. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 3:15 pm

    I was upset a week or so ago that the Yankees had not seriously considered Pavano, but since they actually did I am very happy to hear it.

    It is the smart baseball decision and would be a good move for this team.

  333. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    LGY January 19th, 2011 at 3:15 pm
    I was upset a week or so ago that the Yankees had not seriously considered Pavano, but since they actually did I am very happy to hear it.

    It is the smart baseball decision and would be a good move for this team.

    —————

    I disagree. Chemistry is a big part of the game and I think it would have been a clubhouse killer.

  334. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    Cashman on Pavano:

    “I had several discussions (with his agent). I still believe Pav can pitch here. He has proven he can pitch in some difficult situations. The thing is, he’s healthy. I don’t think he was afraid to come back here, either.”

  335. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 3:14 pm
    As much as I may dislike Joba at this stage; the Yankees will never get him through waivers.

    Trade waivers? Probably not. Optional waivers? Yes they definitely would get him through.

    ————-

    There is not a team out there that wouldn’t claim him.

  336. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
    Cashman on Pavano:

    “I had several discussions (with his agent). I still believe Pav can pitch here. He has proven he can pitch in some difficult situations. The thing is, he’s healthy. I don’t think he was afraid to come back here, either.”

    ———–

    Well then I’m going to send a nice fruit basket to Bill Smith for saving Cashman from himself.

  337. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    There is not a team out there that wouldn’t claim him.

    Are you not understanding the difference between these waivers? No one has ever been claimed off Optional Waivers. If a player has an option, they go to the minor leagues. It is different from the waivers players who are out of options need to pass through to be taken off the 40 or sent to the minors.

    If the Yankees optioned Joba to AAA, he would not be claimed.

  338. DaSaint007 January 19th, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    Tom in N.J. January 19th, 2011 at 3:07 pm
    Is Steve Tolleson related to Wayne Tolleson?

    —————————————
    Tom, Steve is Wayne’s son.

  339. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    I disagree. Chemistry is a big part of the game and I think it would have been a clubhouse killer.

    ———————–

    Chip,

    Convenient that you have gone from the nonsense last week about the Yankees would never consider Pavano to now this.

    You have no idea how Pavano would be received in that clubhouse.

  340. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    Seems like the Yankees used Mariano somewhere along the Soriano decision-making process. Is there any reason to think they that did not seek some input from key players before reaching out to Pavano?

    It’s not outside the realm of possibility.

    I don’t think Cashman would purposely re-introduce someone into the clubhouse if it would cause a huge rift. Especially considering the “mental training” that will be done in spring training this season, as pat told us about yesterday.

  341. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
    There is not a team out there that wouldn’t claim him.

    Are you not understanding the difference between these waivers? No one has ever been claimed off Optional Waivers. If a player has an option, they go to the minor leagues. It is different from the waivers players who are out of options need to pass through to be taken off the 40 or sent to the minors.

    If the Yankees optioned Joba to AAA, he would not be claimed.

    —————

    If you have an option you don’t have to pass through waivers – that’s the point of the option. Best of my knowledge, Joba’s out of options and would have to pass waivers to get to the minors.

  342. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    SIGN JOHNNY DAMON :-)

  343. upstate kate January 19th, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    just out of curiosity, who in the club house really disliked Pavano? Moose comes to mind, but he is gone. There are a lot of new guys since Pavano last pitched.

  344. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    LGY January 19th, 2011 at 3:24 pm
    I disagree. Chemistry is a big part of the game and I think it would have been a clubhouse killer.

    ———————–

    Chip,

    Convenient that you have gone from the nonsense last week about the Yankees would never consider Pavano to now this.

    You have no idea how Pavano would be received in that clubhouse.

    ——————–

    Well I never thought Cashman would be silly enough to consider it for the same reason I think it would still be an awful idea. Because of how Pavano was thought of by the players when he was here.

  345. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    That is just unreal. Cashman must have banged his head repelling down that building. The fact that he was seriously kicking Pavano’s tires shows just how desperate he is and just how unprepared he was for this eventuality with our rotation.

  346. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    If you have an option you don’t have to pass through waivers – that’s the point of the option. Best of my knowledge, Joba’s out of options and would have to pass waivers to get to the minors.

    Joba has all 3 of his options remaining, you are misunderstanding the point. Everyone is referencing a rule which does not exist where players have to pass through optional (get it OPTION?) waivers to be sent to the minor leagues. Every time a player’s option is used, they are put on optional waivers.

    If you would like me to explain the option rules for you I will, in case you don’t believe that Joba has options.

  347. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    upstate kate January 19th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
    just out of curiosity, who in the club house really disliked Pavano? Moose comes to mind, but he is gone. There are a lot of new guys since Pavano last pitched.

    ————-

    Moose was the only one who put his name to a quote but there were a lot of ‘anoymous yankees’ through the years who questioned Pavano’s “guts”

  348. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Pavano was the 2nd best free agent pitcher after Cliff Lee. Blame the market then.

  349. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Chip,

    You have not provided any evidence that players in that clubhouse right now have a problem with Pavano.

  350. Noreaster January 19th, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Pavano was a total waste of money for the Yankees the first time around. He was a young guy who could only pitch in 26 games over 4 years. Just the fact that they offered him a contract and he turned it down shows what a dirt-bag he is. You would think he would show some remorse and gratitude for getting 40M for 26 starts. I’m glad he didn’t sign with us.

  351. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    Chip,

    You also said the Yankees would never consider him because he faked injuries.

    If Pavano really faked injuries, then I highly doubt Cashman would have pursued him

  352. mick January 19th, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    It is inevitable that Cashman will be gone , eventually.
    The question is: Would it be any different for his replacement?
    Yankee owners, since George, have and will meddle.
    Would you want a GM to have complete autonomy?
    What if he is a complete idiot?
    I don’t Cashman is complete.

  353. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    That is just unreal. Cashman must have banged his head repelling down that building. The fact that he was seriously kicking Pavano’s tires shows just how desperate he is and just how unprepared he was for this eventuality with our rotation.

    ——————–

    Carl Pavano pitched 221 innings with a 3.75 ERA last year.

    He averaged just a tick under 7 innings per start.

    Pursuing Pavano is not desperate. It is smart.

  354. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    Options
    If a player is on the 40-man roster but not on the active major league roster, he is said to be on optional assignment—his organization may freely move him between the major league club and the minor league club. If a player is on the 40-man roster and not the active 25 man roster for any part of more than three seasons (in which he spent 20 or more total days of service in the minors), he is out of options and may not be assigned to the minors without first clearing waivers. However, if a player has less than 5 years of professional experience, he may be optioned to the minors in a fourth season without being subject to waivers. If a major league player is ineligible for free agency and “has options” remaining, his team may option him to a minor league team without consequence. This is usually what is meant when players are “sent down” to the minors. Likewise, when a player on the 40-man roster is added to the active major league roster, he is “called up” to the majors.

    Options are based on service time, not how many trips to the minor leagues you get.

    Joba Chamberlain is entering his fifth year of ML service time – out of options.

  355. Mell January 19th, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    “Moose was the only one who put his name to a quote but there were a lot of ‘anoymous yankees’ through the years who questioned Pavano’s “guts””

    Nobody speaking under anonymity should ever question someone else’s “guts”.

  356. Noreaster January 19th, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    Pavano didn’t fake injuries, but he did hide them from the team only making them worse and he didn’t exactly come back fast from any of his many ailments. I can’t believe you guys actually think it would be a good idea to have him on the team (again).

  357. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    LGY January 19th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
    Chip,

    You also said the Yankees would never consider him because he faked injuries.

    If Pavano really faked injuries, then I highly doubt Cashman would have pursued him

    ———————

    No.

    What I said was the Yankees would never consider him because a) they believed he milked injuries and b) he was hated in the clubhouse for reason a.

    That Cashman would be dumb enough to desire to feed a dog by hand when that dog had already bitten him wasn’t something I entertained.

  358. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    Also, I think that the Steinbrenner brothers are now pretty much up to speed in running the Yankees. The first couple of years into their tenure, I believe they were getting a feel for things and perhaps not ready to be as assertive as they may now be in saying what they prefer.

    I also don’t think that there’s such a big rift outside of Soriano, because everyone seemed to be on the same page regarding Jeter and Mo. It wasn’t just Cashman who spoke; Hal was out there and so was Levine, and they all had pretty much the same thing to say.

    As an aside, I am glad they got Soriano, but I do agree in general that paying that kind of money for a set up man (regardless of how they intend to use Soriano ultimately, Mo IS the closer) is not the best allocation of resources. I don’t care about the draft pick. What I do see is that if Soriano is like every other highly touted relief pitcher who gets to NY and fades, there’s nothing they can do about it. If you utilize the many arms in your system on a rotating basis, it’s can work out better with less financial risk and knowing they are interchangeable and can be sent back up and down is a kind of luxury that you don’t have when you’re paying a guy that kind of money. I’m banking on Soriano NOT fading like the Farnsworths of the world.

  359. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    Options are based on service time, not how many trips to the minor leagues you get.

    Joba Chamberlain is entering his fifth year of ML service time – out of options.

    You did not understand what you just posted. First of all, Chamberlain is only entering his 3rd year of service time. Which is why he was first year arbitration eligible. You only burn an option if the player spends more than 20 days in the minors (you missed that part).

    * If a player is not sent to the minors during a year, an option is not used.
    * If a player is on the 40-man roster in spring training but optioned to the minors before the season begins, an option is used.
    * If a player’s optional assignment(s) to the minors total less than 20 days in one season, an option is not used.
    * A player may be eligible for a fourth option year if he has been optioned in three seasons but does not yet have five full seasons of professional experience. A full season is defined as being on an active pro roster for at least 90 days in a season. (If a player is put on the disabled list after earning 60 or more days of service in a single season, his time on the DL is counted.) The 90-day requirement means short-season leagues (New-York Penn, Northwest, Pioneer, Appalachian, Gulf Coast, Arizona Rookie, Dominican and Venezuelan Summer Leagues) do not count as full seasons for the purposes of determining eligibility for a fourth option.

    Joba has options.

  360. mick January 19th, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    just how unprepared he was for this eventuality with our rotation.
    ====================================
    You mean having no replacement for Lee, who didn’t want to pitch here?

    Eventuality is final, nothing is final yet.

    If Andy comes back, then all is good?

  361. blake January 19th, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    Jerkface,

    Thanks for the waiver clarification.

  362. Mell January 19th, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    “Carl Pavano pitched 221 innings with a 3.75 ERA last year.

    He averaged just a tick under 7 innings per start.

    Pursuing Pavano is not desperate. It is smart”

    Would have arguably made him the Yankees 2nd most valuable pitcher last year:

    WAR (baseballreference version)

    Sabathia = 5.4
    Pavano = 4.6
    Pettitte = 3.1
    Hughes = 2.7
    Burnett = -3,932,919.6

  363. mick January 19th, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    I don’t Cashman is complete.
    =====================
    I don’t think Cashman is complete.

  364. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    LGY January 19th, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    Carl Pavano pitched 221 innings with a 3.75 ERA last year. He averaged just a tick under 7 innings per start. Pursuing Pavano is not desperate. It is smart.

    *************

    It would have been the stupidest move he could possibly have made. Anyone in management knows the importance of chemistry and character internally. There is no reason to rehash what every Yankee fan knows.

    The Pavano communication was desperation pure and simple.

  365. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    No.

    What I said was the Yankees would never consider him because a) they believed he milked injuries and b) he was hated in the clubhouse for reason a.

    —————

    Chip January 10th, 2011 at 2:04 pm
    Rich in NJ January 10th, 2011 at 1:58 pm
    Those quotes by Mussina were given before Pavano’s TJ surgery, so I think if given the chance, Mussina would revise his comments.

    ——————–

    I doubt it.

    It’s the boy who cried wolf – eventually there was a wolf but that doesn’t excuse the fact that he was making it up the first dozen times.

  366. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
    Options are based on service time, not how many trips to the minor leagues you get.

    Joba Chamberlain is entering his fifth year of ML service time – out of options.

    You did not understand what you just posted. First of all, Chamberlain is only entering his 3rd year of service time. Which is why he was first year arbitration eligible. You only burn an option if the player spends more than 20 days in the minors (you missed that part).

    * If a player is not sent to the minors during a year, an option is not used.
    * If a player is on the 40-man roster in spring training but optioned to the minors before the season begins, an option is used.
    * If a player’s optional assignment(s) to the minors total less than 20 days in one season, an option is not used.
    * A player may be eligible for a fourth option year if he has been optioned in three seasons but does not yet have five full seasons of professional experience. A full season is defined as being on an active pro roster for at least 90 days in a season. (If a player is put on the disabled list after earning 60 or more days of service in a single season, his time on the DL is counted.) The 90-day requirement means short-season leagues (New-York Penn, Northwest, Pioneer, Appalachian, Gulf Coast, Arizona Rookie, Dominican and Venezuelan Summer Leagues) do not count as full seasons for the purposes of determining eligibility for a fourth option.

    Joba has options.

    ————

    I stand corrected then.

  367. Mell January 19th, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    “Chamberlain is only entering his 3rd year of service time”

    His 4th actually. You need three to be arb eligible.

    But the balance of your post = 100% correct

  368. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    Pavano hid ONE injury from the Yankees. The car accident one. I can’t say I woudln’t have done the same, given his history. I can imagine the thinking process – “Damn – I can’t be injured again! I’ll try to pitch through it, how bad could it be?”

    Why does no one ever give Pavano the benefit of the doubt on that? That perhaps he was so disgusted by what had gone on prior that he couldn’t believe something like that, non-baseball related, happened and he couldn’t face telling them. Cowardly? Maybe. But again, I can’t say I wouldn’t have done the same thing.

    Depending on whether people like a player or not they either get praise or derision for playing with injuries. At least that’s how I see it.

  369. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    Yea I meant he has 3 years of service time, he is going to be generating service time year 3->4 now.

  370. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    LGY January 19th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
    No.

    What I said was the Yankees would never consider him because a) they believed he milked injuries and b) he was hated in the clubhouse for reason a.

    —————

    Chip January 10th, 2011 at 2:04 pm
    Rich in NJ January 10th, 2011 at 1:58 pm
    Those quotes by Mussina were given before Pavano’s TJ surgery, so I think if given the chance, Mussina would revise his comments.

    ——————–

    I doubt it.

    It’s the boy who cried wolf – eventually there was a wolf but that doesn’t excuse the fact that he was making it up the first dozen times.

    —————

    Yes, in other words – Pavano milked minor injuries and finally suffered a serious one.

    It’s not the serious injury that the Yankees objected to – it’s the little ones that kept him sunning in Tampa.

    In any event – I am thrilled that Carl Pavano will not be a Yankee this year and disappointed in Cashman’s judgement that it got as far as it did for a possible return to the Bronx.

  371. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 3:37 pm
    Pavano hid ONE injury from the Yankees. The car accident one. I can’t say I woudln’t have done the same, given his history. I can imagine the thinking process – “Damn – I can’t be injured again! I’ll try to pitch through it, how bad could it be?”

    Why does no one ever give Pavano the benefit of the doubt on that? That perhaps he was so disgusted by what had gone on prior that he couldn’t believe something like that, non-baseball related, happened and he couldn’t face telling them. Cowardly? Maybe. But again, I can’t say I wouldn’t have done the same thing.

    Depending on whether people like a player or not they either get praise or derision for playing with injuries. At least that’s how I see it.

    ——————–

    I don’t think it’s the “hiding of injuries” so much as it was letting a string of minor injuries shut him down for months at a time.

  372. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    “It would have been the stupidest move he could possibly have made. Anyone in management knows the importance of chemistry and character internally. There is no reason to rehash what every Yankee fan knows.

    The Pavano communication was desperation pure and simple.”

    ——————

    So you are saying it would have been the stupidest move he could possibly make, because Pavano would hurt the chemistry in the clubhouse?

    So the logical question is then, how is Pavano viewed in the Yankee clubhouse?

    AND

    If there is any ill will, would Pavano coming here and pitching well change that?

  373. Erin January 19th, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    SI_JonHeyman #twins working hard to try to finalize 2-year deal for pavano. could happen as soon as today

    Please, please let it happen today. I can’t take it anymore!!

  374. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    No, the reality is that you don’t take the risk.

  375. Erin January 19th, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    Well then I?m going to send a nice fruit basket to Bill Smith for saving Cashman from himself.

    *****************************
    Let me know how much it is-I’ll split it with you. ;)

  376. Pat M. January 19th, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    Doreen….My take is that the Yankee Front Office had serious reservation about the staff which translated to a growing concern about playing come October…..It also tells me that the rotation is also going to be dicey at best……I personally will be surprised if Andy reports to camp in four weeks……The rotation as it sits cannot absorb any type of injuries or setbacks….It is paper thin currently……That being said the pen is deep, strong and might be the club’s strong suit going forward

  377. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    I wonder what most fans here would have said if a year ago it was predicted that Cashman would be talking to Pavano’s agent about him returning to the Bronx.

  378. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    LGY January 19th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
    “It would have been the stupidest move he could possibly have made. Anyone in management knows the importance of chemistry and character internally. There is no reason to rehash what every Yankee fan knows.

    The Pavano communication was desperation pure and simple.”

    ——————

    So you are saying it would have been the stupidest move he could possibly make, because Pavano would hurt the chemistry in the clubhouse?

    So the logical question is then, how is Pavano viewed in the Yankee clubhouse?

    AND

    If there is any ill will, would Pavano coming here and pitching well change that?

    ———————————-

    I think the first time Pavano stepped on a Yankee stadium mound he would have been booed right off of it.

    He would melt like butter in a hot pan and things would have only gotten worse from there.

    He would come up with some “soreness” that would require him getting out of New York.

    Cashman would be demolished in every media forum available…the story would be that while some teams want to keep their top performers, guys who have worked hard for them, Cashman prefers to let guys like that (Matsui, Damon) walk away, embarass them publically (Jeter negotiations) and instead bring back guys who did nothing (Javy and Pavano)

  379. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    “No, the reality is that you don’t take the risk.”

    —————–

    What risk?

    Explain that risk that outweighs brining in a pitcher of Pavano’s caliber?

  380. Mell January 19th, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    “I wonder what most fans here would have said if a year ago it was predicted that Cashman would be talking to Pavano’s agent about him returning to the Bronx”

    What difference does it make? The circumstances one year ago are miles from the present set of cirumstances.

  381. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    So, being patient and taking time trying to make the right move is no good – he’s twiddling his thumbs – but kicking the tires on all available pitchers is desperation?

    What exactly was Cashman supposed to do?

    And again, do you not think that Cashman would make certain that if Pavano came back it wouldn’t upset the clubhouse chemistry? Do you think there is no possibility that he spoke with Jeter/Posada, whoever? If they talked to Mariano about Soriano (and the possibility that he may need babysitting), do you not think they just maybe tested the waters on Pavano????

  382. TheStraw January 19th, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    This offseason on it’s face is has not actually been that bad. However, it is quickly becoming one series of PR missteps after another. First, the Jeter negotioiations become way too public and contorted. Then, in no partrticular order: word gets out that the Red Sox offered Mo a deal; Cash makes known his degree of non-aggressiveness in wooing Cliff Lee; a botched handling of Andy’s remarks regarding playing this year; Cash indicates his displeasure in getting Soriano; Cash admits he went after Pavano.

    The press should not be handled so poorly by a $5 billion organization. Normally, I would defend Cash, and I still have no real problem with his actual moves this offseason. What is really bugging me is how this is being mishandled in the media. It makes the Yankees seem, well, less Yankee-like.

  383. SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    Joe Torre, Mike Mussina, Johnny Damon, and Jason Giambi hated Pavano’s guts. None of those guys are with the Yankees any longer.

    It’s also a MUCH different clubhouse (from an atmosphere standpoint) than it was when Pavano was in NY.

    It was not only smart to pursue Pavano, one could argue, it would have been smarter to sign him.

    As far as “chemistry” problems, that’s more fan babble than a player issue.

    Players want to win. Many of them (Jeter among them), would justify anybody short of Bin Laden on the team if he helps them win games.

  384. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    Chip,

    Is this the same Pavano that has a 2.51 playoff ERA? The one who can’t handle the pressure?

    Please spare us the made up hyperbole.

  385. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    Mell January 19th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
    “I wonder what most fans here would have said if a year ago it was predicted that Cashman would be talking to Pavano’s agent about him returning to the Bronx”

    What difference does it make? The circumstances one year ago are miles from the present set of cirumstances.

    ———————-

    No they’re not. This team is not so desperate that it needs to hand Carl Pavano another $10 million. A dog bites you once, that’s one thing – you keep sticking your hand near it’s mouth then you deserve what you get.

    Fans were outraged at the idea of bringing Javy Vazquez back this time last year – at least Vazquez showed up. That’s more than Pavano ever did.

  386. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    A player getting injured = the same as a dog willfully biting its master? Are you implying Pavano hurt himself to get out of playing baseball, the game he is currently playing for a living and pitching 200 innings?

  387. Joe from Long Island January 19th, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    Hi Pat M. – I was flying back from SD, where I had been on a conference for a few days. After the snow and cold of NY, basking in the Southern California sun was a welcome relief. I stayed in the Gaslamp area, if you know it. Very nice, some really good restaurants. There is nothing like eating and drinking well, in a warm climate.

    Of course, it was time to get back to reality. After I got home this AM, I went to work shoveling the slush in front of my driveway, before it hits 20 degrees tonight and everything freezes…. At least I’m in my own bed….

    If Andy is working out, then it seems like he’s coming back. The little bit I know about ballplayers is that they tend not to push themselves unless there’s a coach lurking around the corner. But, you would know better than I. Hope he’s in Tampa next month.

  388. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    The media?

    We’re worried what the media would say?

    The media changes its colors along with the seasons – no, faster. Whatever they deem will rile more people up and sell more papers/ads/whatever.

    When the Yankees wanted to make Joba a starter, for instance, “the media” was up in arms – Joba was born to relieve! Now that the Yankees have made him a relief pitcher and seem intent on keeping it that way, “the media” is again up in arms – no, Joba should start!!!

    EEK.

  389. Howe Farr January 19th, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
    Joe Torre, Mike Mussina, Johnny Damon, and Jason Giambi hated Pavano’s guts. None of those guys are with the Yankees any longer.
    ______________________________________________________________

    Funny that you say that SJ, because Mussina, Damon and Giambi never played with Pavano. ZING!

  390. West Coast Yankee Fan January 19th, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    It matters not if the players are different, everyone knows the story with Pavano. There are enough serious issues with this team as it’s constructed right now. No management/front office in their right mind would intentionally take that risk. AJ Burnett and Carl Pavano? No thanks.

  391. SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    A year ago, Carl Pavano was a non-pitcher. Now? He was one of the best pitchers in the AL last year.

    I hate to inform the fan base but, the Yankees don’t make moves, or attempt to make moves, to placate YOU.

    They make moves to try and win because they want to win. If the fans don’t like the moves, they will live.

    Bill Polian has a great saying I’ve also heard Pat Gillick use often…….

    “If you do what the fans want you to do, you will end up sitting next to them”.

  392. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    LGY January 19th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
    Chip,

    Is this the same Pavano that has a 2.51 playoff ERA? The one who can’t handle the pressure?

    Please spare us the made up hyperbole.

    ———————–

    2.51 playoff ERA at the friendly confines of Minnesota or when he was with the Marlins.

    Gee – can’t imagine why two years in a row Gardenhire decided to start Pavano at home instead of at Yankee Stadium…wouldn’t you think that his tremendous ability to generate ground balls would have been of more use to the Twins at Yankee Stadium than at Target Field last year?

  393. Nick in SF January 19th, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    “Joba has options.”

    I hope coming to camp in better shape is one of the ones he exercises.

  394. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    Just for the record, when Pavano was here last, only Mo, Joba and Robertson were on the pitching staff.

    Only Cano, Jeter, ARod, Posada and Gardner offensively.

    Just can’t see clubhouse chemistry being any kind of issue. The 2008 Yanks aren’t the 2011 Yanks.

  395. Noreaster January 19th, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    Pavano is the very definition of someone who could not pitch (or wanted to pitch) in NY. This is not fantasy baseball. I agree with Chip…didn’t you all learn anything from Javy last year? Some guys cannot handle NY.

  396. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
    A year ago, Carl Pavano was a non-pitcher. Now? He was one of the best pitchers in the AL last year.

    I hate to inform the fan base but, the Yankees don’t make moves, or attempt to make moves, to placate YOU.

    They make moves to try and win because they want to win. If the fans don’t like the moves, they will live.

    Bill Polian has a great saying I’ve also heard Pat Gillick use often…….

    “If you do what the fans want you to do, you will end up sitting next to them”.

    —————–

    another voice of reason heard from.

  397. SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    Didn’t say they played with him. I said they hated his guts.

    ZING right back at you.

  398. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 3:55 pm
    Just for the record, when Pavano was here last, only Mo, Joba and Robertson were on the pitching staff.

    Only Cano, Jeter, ARod, Posada and Gardner offensively.

    Just can’t see clubhouse chemistry being any kind of issue. The 2008 Yanks aren’t the 2011 Yanks.

    ——————-

    Jeter and Posada are enough to sway a clubhouse one way or another.

  399. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    i still believe at some point, the yankees will convince either seattle or florida, or maybe one other team with an Ace they cant afford, to trade with us.

  400. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    “I hate to inform the fan base but, the Yankees don’t make moves, or attempt to make moves, to placate YOU.”

    I seem to recall a very recent Levine quote having to do with the fans being a “sacred obligation”.

  401. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    “Jeter and Posada are enough to sway a clubhouse one way or another.”

    Jeter and Po won’t notice whether Carl is there or not.

  402. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Oh, and the comment that Pavano would have been willing to come back to New York…

    of friggin course he would have – they were reportedly offering him $10 million. Gil Meche aside, most players would play in Bangladesh for $10 mil.

  403. Mell January 19th, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    “Explain that risk that outweighs brining in a pitcher of Pavano’s caliber?”

    Don’t you get it, LGY. His 200+ innings of capable MLB pitching will be so toxic in nature that it’ll erode completely the chemistry of a team that played .500 baseball from the end of July til the end of the playoffs in 2010

  404. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 3:56 pm
    “I hate to inform the fan base but, the Yankees don’t make moves, or attempt to make moves, to placate YOU.”

    I seem to recall a very recent Levine quote having to do with the fans being a “sacred obligation”.

    ———————

    And what does it tell you that even that stooge is smart enough to say “look we’ll force Cashman to take on Soriano – but sign Carl Pavano….hahahahahaha”

  405. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Wang’s injuries have really thrown a wrench into the long term yankee plan.

  406. Howe Farr January 19th, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    anyways SJ, i agree 100% with you. If the guy can wion, give him a uniform, if not, see ya later. I dont care much for names.

  407. Erin January 19th, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    cgrand14 greeted by a tribal dance. Video to come soon! http://plixi.com/p/71059667

  408. Nick in SF January 19th, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    Jeter’s opinion matters less now that that he folded and took a lesser contract.

    Damn you Randy Levine!!! :mad:

  409. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    “look we’ll force Cashman to take on Soriano – but sign Carl Pavano….hahahahahaha”

    ??? Levine did not say that. The yankees offered Pavano 1 year. The twins offered 2.

  410. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    “And what does it tell you that even that stooge is smart enough to say “look we’ll force Cashman to take on Soriano – but sign Carl Pavano….hahahahahaha””

    Link?

  411. SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    Do you really believe Randy Levine makes decisions for the Yankees for the fans? lol

  412. Mell January 19th, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    “Do you really believe Randy Levine makes decisions for the Yankees for the fans?”

    I was personally touched by him acting on his sacred obligation.

  413. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    2.51 playoff ERA at the friendly confines of Minnesota or when he was with the Marlins.

    Gee – can’t imagine why two years in a row Gardenhire decided to start Pavano at home instead of at Yankee Stadium…wouldn’t you think that his tremendous ability to generate ground balls would have been of more use to the Twins at Yankee Stadium than at Target Field last year?

    ———————

    Maybe because in 2009 he had a 5 ERA so he got game 3?

    Or that in 2010 Pavano was one of their 2 best pitchers so he started game 2 which happened to be in Minny?

    Chip, come on. You don’t really think Pavano is scared of YS? Please.

  414. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
    A player getting injured = the same as a dog willfully biting its master? Are you implying Pavano hurt himself to get out of playing baseball, the game he is currently playing for a living and pitching 200 innings
    ——————-

    I’m implying the same thing Mike Mussina and Joe Torre implied – that while others played hurt Pavano let minor injuries shut him down.

    That if you’re dumb enough to get back in business with a person like that then when March 5 rolls around and he tells you that he’s got a little elbow soreness or buttock soreness and he’s going to shut it down for a month you shouldn’t be shocked nor should you act shocked when it inevitably happens.

    Carl Pavano the last two years has had to pitch on relatively small deals to try and remain in the game. Take that incentive away from him by hading him yet another big money payday and you’re asking for trouble.

  415. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    “Do you really believe Randy Levine makes decisions for the Yankees for the fans?”

    Who me? I was just quoting Randy Levine…

  416. TheStraw January 19th, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    Doreen-

    Not the media. My concern is the lack of organizational control over the statements being made by Cashman. He is making statements without considering their ramifications on the future market. It just seems very unlike the way he has handled these situations in the past. Maybe he does have one foot out the door already.

  417. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    LGY January 19th, 2011 at 4:02 pm
    2.51 playoff ERA at the friendly confines of Minnesota or when he was with the Marlins.

    Gee – can’t imagine why two years in a row Gardenhire decided to start Pavano at home instead of at Yankee Stadium…wouldn’t you think that his tremendous ability to generate ground balls would have been of more use to the Twins at Yankee Stadium than at Target Field last year?

    ———————

    Maybe because in 2009 he had a 5 ERA so he got game 3?

    Or that in 2010 Pavano was one of their 2 best pitchers so he started game 2 which happened to be in Minny?

    Chip, come on. You don’t really think Pavano is scared of YS? Please.

    ————————

    Scared of Yankee Stadium, no. But I do think that constant booing will wilt anyone…did to Javy.

    Either way I don’t think it would get that far. Carla would look at the size of his first paycheck, stub a toe and be out until August.

  418. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    “Oh, and the comment that Pavano would have been willing to come back to New York…

    of friggin course he would have – they were reportedly offering him $10 million. Gil Meche aside, most players would play in Bangladesh for $10 mil.”

    —————-

    LMAO Chip.

    Last week you said – “as much as I believe there’s no way Cashman wants Pavano here I can’t come up with a single reason why Pavano would want to come here anyway.”

    You are really spinning on this one Chipster.

  419. SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    Look, I fully acknowledge it would have been tough for Pavano. Especially off the Vazquez debacle and the fan reaction to it.

    The clubhouse? Wouldn’t have been an issue.

    Can he pitch well in a non-contract year? Legitimate question.

    However, he was certainly worth going after, IMO.

    Especially given the current state of pitching in the game and on the market at the present time.

  420. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    Pete Abraham
    Autonomy also important for Cashman, which he had under Big Stein. If Hal wants a puppet, Cash ain’t it. Interesting to watch

  421. Tom in N.J. January 19th, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    Heck, I wanted the Yanks to pick-up Pavano’s option after the ’08 season.

  422. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    LGY January 19th, 2011 at 4:04 pm
    “Oh, and the comment that Pavano would have been willing to come back to New York…

    of friggin course he would have – they were reportedly offering him $10 million. Gil Meche aside, most players would play in Bangladesh for $10 mil.”

    —————-

    LMAO Chip.

    Last week you said – “as much as I believe there’s no way Cashman wants Pavano here I can’t come up with a single reason why Pavano would want to come here anyway.”

    You are really spinning on this one Chipster.

    —————-

    Again my bad – I didn’t anticipate that

    a) the Yankees would go after him
    b) that if they did they would consider offering him $10 mil

    In light of those two shocking developments I’ve had to alter my view point. Intelligent people do that from time to time.

  423. pat January 19th, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    “…….just out of curiosity, who in the club house really disliked Pavano? ”

    This makes it sound like Jeter and Posada were not fans.

    AndrewMarchand Cashman said he thinks Pavano could pitch in NYC. Wonder what the Jeter and Posada would have thought abt Pavano back in Bronx.

  424. Howe Farr January 19th, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    Pete Abraham don’t live here anymore. I could care less what he has to say…

  425. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    PeteAbe $35 million and a 1st round pick for any set-up man is not good long-term business. Those sort of deals did them in post 2000
    __

    How about 142 Mil for a fast left fielder who will be partolling 20 feet of open space now?

  426. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Chip,

    What did you think the Yankees would offer Pavano league minimum if they pursued him.

    If they made an offer it has be assumed it would be competitive in the market place, hence the $10 million.

  427. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Howe Farr January 19th, 2011 at 4:07 pm
    Pete Abraham don’t live here anymore. I could care less what he has to say…

    —————

    You know what though – if going after Carl Pavano is a show of what Brian Cashman would do with full autonomy then I want no part of him having it.

  428. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    don’t forget the JD Drew deal, 12 mil for Paps is going to be a disaster for them, the Burnett deal for Lackey (who has a career ERA over 5 at fenway), the last lowell deal (that he let them off the hook by retiring), 20 Mil on Mike Cameron, 51 Mil to talk to Dice-K?

    Yeah the yankees are the really bad dealmakers.

  429. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    LGY January 19th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
    Chip,

    What did you think the Yankees would offer Pavano league minimum if they pursued him.

    If they made an offer it has be assumed it would be competitive in the market place, hence the $10 million.

    —————–

    Honestly?

    1 year 5 mil with another 5 in incentives based on Games Started and IP – not too different than what they gave Andy prior to the 2009 season.

  430. mjb January 19th, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    I wouldn’t theoretically be against giving the guy another shot. I read they were thinking 1 year, high-dollar. For 1 year? Sure.

  431. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    Straw -

    I don’t expect Cashman to come back. And I’ve thought that for a while. I always believed this was going to be his last contract. But I’ve never had the impression that he was a spiteful guy.

    I don’t know him personally, so I can’t really say what the talkativeness is about these days. I do know that hearing things and reading things can leave two different impressions.

    And aside from being more assertive in his statements, I can’t say as I believe he’s said anything wrong. He hasn’t made any rash statements. He doesn’t sound like a wild man. Just not keeping everything quite so close to vest, perhaps? People seemed to want that before he actually started doing it. :?

  432. Yanksgal07 January 19th, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    “Funny that you say that SJ, because Mussina, Damon and Giambi never played with Pavano. ZING!”

    They never played with Pavano?? They were all on the teams of 2007 & 2008. Ok ..maybe never PLAYED because he wasn’t there most of the time but Moose had plenty to say to the
    press about Pavano not taking the ball. Moose was never shy about calling Pavano out.

    Go Yankees 2011 !!!

  433. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Without wishing ill on any starter the Yanks do get, and while hoping that either the Yanks wise up on Joba or that the kids they pluck from AAA blossom into Rookie of the Year candidates, I predict that by June 30th many folks here are going to be demanding to know why the Yanks didn’t sign Pavano when they had the chance.

  434. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    And LGY – since you’re rehashing my old posts – you’re the guy who wanted the Yankees to take a hard line with Jeter and now you want them to re-up with Pavano?

    Truly you should try paying attention to more than just the stats.

  435. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
    Without wishing ill on any starter the Yanks do get, and while hoping that either the Yanks wise up on Joba or that the kids they pluck from AAA blossom into Rookie of the Year candidates, I predict that by June 30th many folks here are going to be demanding to know why the Yanks didn’t sign Pavano when they had the chance.

    ———————

    Only the same group of dimented stat hounds who are singing for him now.

  436. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    Chip,

    Doesn’t sound like Cashman was overruled on Pavano; just outbid.

  437. PittsburghYankeeFan January 19th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Instapoll:

    Which is worse?

    (1) Randy Levine wanting and negotiating a weird contract for Soriano?
    (2) Cashman wanting Pavano back after he screwed the team out of $40 million?

  438. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    “Only the same group of dimented stat hounds who are singing for him now.”

    Its funny, but those folks aren’t the ones I see in my crystal ball.

  439. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    As I said – if Pavano were brought back here:

    a) he would stink if he pitched at all.

    b) It would be Cashman giving a giant middle finger to the fan base which would lead to articles about why Brian insists on bringing back his mistakes (Javy and Pavano), creating tension with his captain, publically calling out his owners, and letting guys who were actually good performers and quality guys for the Yankees (Damon, Matsui) walk.

  440. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
    Chip,

    Doesn’t sound like Cashman was overruled on Pavano; just outbid.

    —————–

    And this is why I’m currently on Flowers.com trying to decide just what to send Twins’ GM Bill Smith as thanks for saving Cashman from himself.

  441. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    Joe Torre, Mike Mussina, Johnny Damon, and Jason Giambi hated Pavano’s guts. None of those guys are with the Yankees any longer.

    It’s also a MUCH different clubhouse (from an atmosphere standpoint) than it was when Pavano was in NY.

    It was not only smart to pursue Pavano, one could argue, it would have been smarter to sign him.
    +++++++++
    Thank you.

    I would imagine that Cashman also checked in with Posada, ARod, Jeter, and others to see how thye would feel about taking Pavano back.

    As for the fan reaction, I recall they cheered him in 2008 when he pitched well in the last 6 starts (4-2 record). If he wins, they will cheer him…fans are fickle.

  442. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
    “Only the same group of dimented stat hounds who are singing for him now.”

    Its funny, but those folks aren’t the ones I see in my crystal ball.

    —————

    Well then might I suggest buying some windex and cleaning that puppy up.

  443. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    Not singing for him.

    Saying it was not stupid for Cashman to pursue him.

    I don’t think it would work – Yankees fans are an unforgiving bunch. And I think Pavano would be certifiable to put himself under that microscope.

    But, like it or not, if Pavano had a different name, you’d all want him.

  444. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 4:20 pm
    SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    Joe Torre, Mike Mussina, Johnny Damon, and Jason Giambi hated Pavano’s guts. None of those guys are with the Yankees any longer.

    It’s also a MUCH different clubhouse (from an atmosphere standpoint) than it was when Pavano was in NY.

    It was not only smart to pursue Pavano, one could argue, it would have been smarter to sign him.
    +++++++++
    Thank you.

    I would imagine that Cashman also checked in with Posada, ARod, Jeter, and others to see how thye would feel about taking Pavano back.

    As for the fan reaction, I recall they cheered him in 2008 when he pitched well in the last 6 starts (4-2 record). If he wins, they will cheer him…fans are fickle.

    —————-

    Why do you assume that he checked with the players?

    He didn’t check with Girardi before dismissing Eiland.

  445. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    Nick in SF January 19th, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    “Joba has options.”

    I hope coming to camp in better shape is one of the ones he exercises.
    ++++++++++++++++
    I hope his options aren’t the only things he exercises.

  446. SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    I think Pete needs to ask Theo his thoughts on the Crawford signing.

    Especially since it goes against EVERYTHING Theo is about re: player development.

    I love the overstatement and drama.

    Cash gets overruled on a deal and he’s now a puppet.

    The same people on here who whine that Hal is “not like his father”, now whine that he’s spending money on Soriano.

    Folks need to make up their minds and also look at this from the entire perspective of the team.

    Mariano has been hurt the last two years. In particular, he has been hurt from Mid-August thru the post-season. He’s also 41 years old.

    Given that situation AND the current lack of availability of starting pitchers, it makes sense to beef up the bullpen and Soriano is a beast at the end of games.

    It males the team BETTER, which the goal.

  447. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Chip -

    HE didn’t LET Damon walk. Damon decided 2 years and good money was not good enough for him. So he took ONE year and a little better money for that ONE year to play in a ballpark that was not suited for him, and he is now currently OUT OF A JOB, when he could have been gainfully employed for 2011 without breaking a sweat.

    Matsui and his agents were smart and didn’t wait it out.

    I get that a lot of you don’t like the fact that Cashman has the nerve to live and breathe. But please, I get really worked up when things are twisted around.

  448. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    “Well then might I suggest buying some windex and cleaning that puppy up.”

    lol

  449. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
    Not singing for him.

    Saying it was not stupid for Cashman to pursue him.

    I don’t think it would work – Yankees fans are an unforgiving bunch. And I think Pavano would be certifiable to put himself under that microscope.

    But, like it or not, if Pavano had a different name, you’d all want him.

    ——————-

    Why would I want a guy who missed the better part of three years with a series of minor injuries and then a fourth with a major one?

    Look, if there are people who want to disregard Pavano’s history here that’s their business. There’s a cliche though that’s a cliche for a reason – those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

  450. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 19th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    Bojo, if you are around. To answer your question a few threads back regarding Andy. I would welcome him back with open arms for another season. One reason is that Andy is definitely an innings eater. He has a great work ethic, expects a lot of himself, HAS THE ABILITY TO GET OUT OF JAMS, and doesn’t fall apart if he has given up runs or has runners on base. If he is healthy, I would always want to see him as a part of the Yankee rotation.

    *************

    About Pavano – I would take Mickey Mouse if Disney would give him a one-year sabbatical and he knew how to pictch. If Pavano could get the job done, I’d say why not.

    However, I’m not sure that could happen for the reasons people have already cited.

    I’d really like to know the real deal on Armando Galarraga though. (If the real deal has been exposed, I apologize for asking the question. Last I read there was a discrepancy in his current status.) If he’s available, I think he could be just what the doctor ordered!

  451. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Chip -

    I believe I read that none other than Mariano Rivera was “consulted” about Soriano. Apparently there is some concern about Soriano’s “attitude ” and there is the possibility that he may need babysitting. Mariano gave assurances.

    Why do you assume that they would NOT do they same kind of player consultation if they were seriously considering Pavano? I have no idea whether they did or did not but neither do you. But I can logically assume if Mariano was in on Soriano, then why WOULDN’T Jeter and Posada be in on Pavano?

  452. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    “The same people on here who whine that Hal is “not like his father”, now whine that he’s spending money on Soriano.”

    Actually, I don’t think there’s any overlap between those two crowds.

    And as I said yesterday, I agree Soriano makes the team better. I really don’t think anyone believes he doesn’t make the team better.

  453. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    I won’t be surprised to read in the next day or so that the Yankees have signed Pavano….

  454. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    Sometimes I feel like I’m banging my head against a wall.

  455. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 19th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    “Sometimes I feel like I’m banging my head against a wall.”

    :lol:

    Haven’t read the comments, but having read them enough in the past I can just imagine!

  456. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    BoJo -

    If that happens, I’m staying away from this place!!! Lol

  457. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    “And LGY – since you’re rehashing my old posts – you’re the guy who wanted the Yankees to take a hard line with Jeter and now you want them to re-up with Pavano?”

    Yes.

    I like when the Yankees win and both those things improve their chances of winning IMO.

    “Truly you should try paying attention to more than just the stats.”

    Truly you should try having a discussion without just making things up to try to prove your point.

    Additionally, you should stop pretending like you know what the Yankees are thinking all the time, because you have a nasty habit of doing so (with this Pavano thing being one example).

    I’m still waiting for you to find me some quotes on how current Yankees view Pavano btw.

  458. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    For the record – I had no problem with the Yankees bringing back Javy Vazquez last year.

    I thought he got a raw deal here based on the fact that Mel and Torre had no use for the guy and would pull him the moment he got into trouble which in turn made him tight which then got him into even more trouble.

    I thought the Yankees gave up nothing for him and the new staff, coupled with the fact that he had better pitchers around him this time, would benefit him.

    But more importantly – no matter how bad things got you never – ever heard anyone question Javy’s desire or heart. That’s all you heard about Pavano. Year after year, there were articles where players and coaches were questioning whether Carl Pavano really wanted anything more than a paycheck.

    The guy could go out and win the next two Cy Young awards and I still wouldn’t want him on this team anymore than I would want my wife to tell me she’s heading out for a night in the city with Snookie.

  459. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Hi Trisha.

    I wish I was gainfully employed and therefore not tempted to spend so much time here! It’s too addictive. Even when I do walk away, I keep coming back.

    The worst thing I ever did was to get this ultra-convenient laptop! LOL

  460. filthy slider January 19th, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    If the great american idle returned to the Bronx I would have blown Spiderman Cashmans head off, then mine.

  461. G. Love January 19th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    SJ,

    I’m going back and forth with Pete on Twitter as we speak. I knocked the Crawford expenditure after he criticized Soriano money and he knocked back at me that Yankees wanted him and using “never hit 20 HR’s” in a season to call him overpaid was very 2003 of me.

  462. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 19th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Well all I will say is this. Short of a player being an axe murderer or convicted felon, if he can help the team, he’s for me. I really don’t care about the past or any other trivia or minutiae. All of that causes me to do is –

    YAWN!

    If a player can help the Yankees to win games, bring him on.

  463. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
    I won’t be surprised to read in the next day or so that the Yankees have signed Pavano….

    ——————

    I will honestly pass on this baseball season in that event.

  464. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    LGY January 19th, 2011 at 4:31 pm
    “And LGY – since you’re rehashing my old posts – you’re the guy who wanted the Yankees to take a hard line with Jeter and now you want them to re-up with Pavano?”

    Yes.

    I like when the Yankees win and both those things improve their chances of winning IMO.

    “Truly you should try paying attention to more than just the stats.”

    Truly you should try having a discussion without just making things up to try to prove your point.

    Additionally, you should stop pretending like you know what the Yankees are thinking all the time, because you have a nasty habit of doing so (with this Pavano thing being one example).

    I’m still waiting for you to find me some quotes on how current Yankees view Pavano btw.

    ———————

    How about this, why don’t you find me some quotes about how much they would love to have Pavano on their team instead?

    I don’t believe I know what the Yankees are thinking. I obviously don’t know what they’re thinking since this entire Pavano thing is so utterly stupid to me that I can’t believe they actually explored it.

  465. Joe from Long Island January 19th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Full autonomy as GM?

    Not even Sandy Alderson has full autonomy, and that’s with Jeff Wilpon being brought into line by Fred and Bud Selig. And Alderson is a pretty heavy hitter.

    I don’t think any GM has full autonomy in this day and age. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong. As far as Cash’s relationship with Hal, I’ve read only that Hal and the family love him. Cash had to go get permission to sign Tex, according to all reports. That doesn’t sound like full autonomy. Not when someone else signs the checks.

    The Yanks, at times, do not seem to have a straightforward decision-making process. I don’t know how this compares to other teams. But, they seem to be pretty successful of late doing it this current way. Could things be better? Always. But, unless they come out and clearly spell out the process, we can only surmise, and do it at a great distance. Kind of like old-fashioned Kremlinology, for the old-timers here.

  466. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 19th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    The place is absolutely addictive! That’s why I actually enjoy any time away that I do take. This place has the ability to own you. I fight against that tooth and nail.

    :)

    This comment was made from my ultra-convenient laptop!

  467. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    And what exactly am I making up to just “prove a point?”

    That stats alone don’t cut it? Not a new theory or my theory sunshine.

    Look, believe what you want to. I’m sure on the latest MLB game for your PS3 Carl Pavano on the Yankees is a wonderful addition – real life – not so much.

  468. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    Trisha

    Nice to have a kindred spirit around. :)

  469. SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    The Yankees never offered Crawford a contract. They certainly weren’t going to offer him 20 million a year.

    I’m a Carl Crawford fan and he’s not a 20 million a year player.

    If the Yankees signed him to that deal, Pete would have ripped them to shreds.

  470. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Trisha -

    WE’ve had some very different birds around this winter. Fatter birds. and Very sloppy! As in, we have to get our home powerwashed in the spring. Ugh.

  471. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Not hearing much about Andruw Jones today. Erica still has a shred of hope left.

  472. Nick in SF January 19th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Yes, my prediction turned out to be wrong, but it’s not my fault, it’s just that the assumptions inherhent in my prediction were inaccurate. I can hardly be blamed if the outside world fails to conform to my superior opinions.

  473. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 4:39 pm
    Not hearing much about Andruw Jones today. Erica still has a shred of hope left.

    *********

    More than a shread :-)

  474. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Nick in SF January 19th, 2011 at 4:39 pm
    Yes, my prediction turned out to be wrong, but it’s not my fault, it’s just that the assumptions inherhent in my prediction were inaccurate. I can hardly be blamed if the outside world fails to conform to my superior opinions.

    ************

    Garbage in, Garbage out Mr Nick!

  475. Joe from Long Island January 19th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    Doreen – well, please don’t bang your head. It’s not worth it, certainly not here. You know the territory. Some people with b**** and moan no matter what. That’s the way it is on a blog, apparently. I don’t go around to others, so I’m guessing a bit, but I’d be willing to bet on it.

    Have a glass of wine, or enjoy a nice dinner, and pay attention to the posts from those with functioning gray matter. You’ll be happier – and your head will hurt less. :)

  476. pat January 19th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    MLBNetwork #Yankees hitting coach Kevin Long taping a demo on the different drills he uses with A-Rod, Posada & Cano http://yfrog.com/gymhckwj

    Tonight on MLB Network Hot Stove

  477. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 19th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    Also, I don’t care who makes the decisions in the Ys organization as long as they’re good decisions. But I’d say that tracks well with my general outlook on things. I’m not paid to make decisions, the Yankees don’t owe me explanations, they know more than the average fan about how to put a team together and when to disclose information on injuries.

    Put it all together for me, Yankees, and I’ll be there to enjoy the games. Thanks for a great ride.

    Trisha

  478. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    “And what exactly am I making up to just “prove a point?”

    That stats alone don’t cut it? Not a new theory or my theory sunshine.

    Look, believe what you want to. I’m sure on the latest MLB game for your PS3 Carl Pavano on the Yankees is a wonderful addition – real life – not so much.”

    ————-

    Your entire argument against Pavano has been a series of exaggerations, fabrications, and baseless accusations.

    If you want to make an argument that Pavano milked or faked or however you want to twist the words today, provide some evidence.

    If you want to say Pavano would ruin the clubhouse provide evidence. If you want to say Pavano would melt under the pressure of YS provide some support for that.

    I gave you Pavano’s statistics from last year (something that undeniably happened) to say why he would be a good addition.

    I would like to see a real counterargument.

  479. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    Damnit I want to watch that Hot Stove!! Stupid AT&T doesn’t carry MLB network!!!

  480. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:34 pm
    BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
    I won’t be surprised to read in the next day or so that the Yankees have signed Pavano….

    ——————

    I will honestly pass on this baseball season in that event.

    *****************

    Careful Chip…..

    All of Lohud will kindly hold you to it!!!

    (An extra silver lining to signing Pavano)

    Don’t worry. I only jest. Or do I……………

  481. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    LGY –

    I know why you’re so salty over this Pavano thing – it’s because the Twins have now got two guys that you were pining for in him and Thome.

    Must be rough to lose out on two guys that the Yankees are better off without.

  482. Yanksgal07 January 19th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    No one on this blog ACTUALLY knows what goes on behind closed doors with the Yankee management or players. Too many people read what the so called sports reporters and other bloggers have to say and take it as fact when most likely it isn’t anywhere close to the truth.
    Sometimes reading the comments can be very comical. At other times it’s as Doreen said …it’s like banging your head against the wall. I especially love reading Doreen’s post because she doesn’t think she’s a know it all and they actually are well thought and make sense. If only a lot of the other posters took her example.

    Go Yankees 2011 !!

  483. Melk Man January 19th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    Joe,

    No doubt.

    It is even worse in small markets. Would Cash prefer to be the GM of the Rays and be told that he has to trade away productive players (i.e. Matt Garza) because they are making too much money?

    You would think Cash would rather be in a situation where the owners want him to spend money this year and not save it. Good for Hal though.

  484. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 4:42 pm
    Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:34 pm
    BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
    I won’t be surprised to read in the next day or so that the Yankees have signed Pavano….

    ——————

    I will honestly pass on this baseball season in that event.

    *****************

    Careful Chip…..

    All of Lohud will kindly hold you to it!!!

    (An extra silver lining to signing Pavano)

    Don’t worry. I only jest. Or do I……………

    ———————–

    I said I would pass on the season – didn’t say I would stop coming here every chance I got to say Cashman’s an idiot for making this signing.

  485. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    The timing isn’t clear on the Pavano negotiation. Was it before or after Soriano? Is it still on the table?

  486. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    LGY-

    What’s the point, if you take my meaning?

  487. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 19th, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    “Trisha

    Nice to have a kindred spirit around. :)

    The feeling is so mutual. Doreen, I light up when I see your name here because I know then that there are reasoned comments being made.

    :)

    I’ve seen a lot fewer chickadees than I have in previous winters. Other than that I think it’s pretty much the same cast of characters here. I just love it when the cardinals show up!

  488. SJ44 January 19th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    I love howmthe Red Sox are now “ahead of the curve” by offering a non-powers hitter a 20 million dollar a year, 7 year deal.

    Please, what a bunch of nonsense.

    Almost as nonsensical as that overhyped Red Sox farm system.

    One could argue that they had to pay over 140 million dollars for a guy who was not even the best player on his former team (who, BTW, also disappeared in the playoffs), because their overhyped farm system yielded such poor results.

    I guess it’s all in how you want to view it.

  489. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    joe in Long Island -

    When WILL I learn to take your advice??? :LOL:

  490. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    I said I would pass on the season – didn’t say I would stop coming here every chance I got to say Cashman’s an idiot for making this signing.

    ***************

    DOH! :mad:

  491. pat January 19th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    Doreen

    I’ve gotten good at knowing who makes me want to bang my head against the wall and I only read them when I feel less inclined to head bang or in the mood to pick a fight with someone. :wink:

  492. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    Trisha -

    Oh, the cardinals are my favorite too. I love the red especially against the snow. (Plus, I know what they are!!! )

  493. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 19th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    I’d really like to know the real deal on Armando Galarraga though. (If the real deal has been exposed, I apologize for asking the question. Last I read there was a discrepancy in his current status.) If he’s available, I think he could be just what the doctor ordered!
    ++++++
    Perhaps–if it is Dr Kervorkian. :-)
    Galarraga is not that good a pitcher, and isn’t better than Mitre.

    Thanks for replying about earlier question!

  494. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    LGY January 19th, 2011 at 4:42 pm
    “And what exactly am I making up to just “prove a point?”

    That stats alone don’t cut it? Not a new theory or my theory sunshine.

    Look, believe what you want to. I’m sure on the latest MLB game for your PS3 Carl Pavano on the Yankees is a wonderful addition – real life – not so much.”

    ————-

    Your entire argument against Pavano has been a series of exaggerations, fabrications, and baseless accusations.

    If you want to make an argument that Pavano milked or faked or however you want to twist the words today, provide some evidence.

    If you want to say Pavano would ruin the clubhouse provide evidence. If you want to say Pavano would melt under the pressure of YS provide some support for that.

    I gave you Pavano’s statistics from last year (something that undeniably happened) to say why he would be a good addition.

    I would like to see a real counterargument.

    —————————–

    Real counterargument – CARL PAVANO IS A PIECE OF GARBAGE AND I DON’T WANT HIM ON THE YANKEES.

    Milton Bradley can hit the ball like a monster – don’t want him on the Yankees either.

    Barry Bonds in his last season put up great numbers – didn’t want him on the Yankees either.

    There are times when you have to go beyond numbers

  495. Yankee Trader January 19th, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    Hi Trisha-

  496. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    “What’s the point, if you take my meaning?”

    ————–

    Wave,

    lol. Getting Chip riled up is entertaining. You are right though, there probably is no point. Maybe, boredom right now?

  497. Doreen January 19th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    pat -

    I’m actually getting better at it. Today’s not a good day, though. Most of the comments are running counter to my own feelings, so I should really have shut down for the day!

  498. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    I would have taken Barry Bonds in a flash. Don’t care if he demanded his own recliner, New Yankee Stadium is big enough to give him his own clubhouse.

  499. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    “Maybe, boredom right now?”

    Been there, done that… ;)

  500. Yankee Trader January 19th, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Hi Trisha-

    River Avenue Blues writer today did an interesting piece on Gallaraga comparing him with Mitre. Gallaraga gives up a lot of homers in spacious Comerica park.

    Jon Heyman on MLB Network on Pettitte-family has given him OK to pitch. I think he comes back at some point this season.

  501. Eroc January 19th, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Would you rather have Pavano and his 3.75 ERA/220 innings or some combination of Nova, Mitre, Phelps, Warren, etc.?

  502. Joe from Long Island January 19th, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    Yanksgal07 – I’m currently reading a biography of Yogi Berra, by Allen Barra. There are more than a few passages where the author recounts times when the sportswriters of the 1950s wrote various things about the Yanks, their players, and the clubhouse, that were completely at odds with what was really happening.

    Regardless of the era, writers/reporters have deadlines, and need stories. We can easily imagine that, at times of deadlines, that the truth may be stretched, if not completely distorted. That’s why an intelligent consumer of sports news, just like any news, must read several media outlets, compare and contrast stories, and work to get the real story.

  503. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    Crawford’s numbers will be inflated by slapping the ball off the wall in left 50 times a year.

    Same way Lowell’s were and most righties on that team, that have much better splits at home (significantly better).

    Before a sox fan jumps up, yes right field at YS also yields more homeruns.

  504. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 4:44 pm
    The timing isn’t clear on the Pavano negotiation. Was it before or after Soriano? Is it still on the table?

    ———————

    Not sure, but since the reports are that he’s nearly completed his deal with the Twins I would assume it’s off the table – though Buster Olney reports that the only way the Yankees were going to sign the American Idle was in a sign and trade with the Twins so that they could keep the draft pick…So I guess for LGY that’s something he can hope for. That the Yankees are not only dumb enough to give Pavano 10 mil but also sacrifice a prospect for him.

  505. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    Jon Heyman on MLB Network on Pettitte-family has given him OK to pitch. I think he comes back at some point this season.

    ___

    BOOYA! Come on down Mr. Pettitte. Now, we have to hope Cashman doesn’t try to punish him by offering him less than he got last year.

  506. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    G. Love January 19th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    SJ,

    I’m going back and forth with Pete on Twitter as we speak. I knocked the Crawford expenditure after he criticized Soriano money and he knocked back at me that Yankees wanted him and using “never hit 20 HR’s” in a season to call him overpaid was very 2003 of me.
    +++++++++++++
    In debating with Pete Abe on twitter, I always find the winning rebuttal to be: “Oh yeah–well, you’re still fat!” :-)

  507. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    Wave,

    Maybe we should go back to the conversation where Chip tells us the Yankees are making Montero swim with floaties in the training pool next season?

  508. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    Of course Pete says that. Ask him what he would have thought if Tex was a Red Sox for 5 mil less than the Yankees gave him.

  509. TD213 January 19th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    Buster_ESPN
    To be clear: A Pavano-Yankees reunion would have only happened on a sign-and-trade that would’ve saved the NYY their No. 1 pick.

  510. Patrick January 19th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    Abe is right that spending $35 million on Soriano is “bad business” but this is definitely a case of the pot calling the kettle black

  511. Joe from Long Island January 19th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    I saw where Milton Bradley was arrested again, for threatening someone. What a shame. What a waste of potential and talent (I know, that word “potential”. I mean it here not just in terms of athletic potential, but human potential.)

  512. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    LGY January 19th, 2011 at 4:50 pm
    “What’s the point, if you take my meaning?”

    ————–

    Wave,

    lol. Getting Chip riled up is entertaining. You are right though, there probably is no point. Maybe, boredom right now?

    ——————-

    LOL – it is funny because it’s the same reason I’m bothering with this too.

    Fact is it’s moot – Pavano’s not coming here so what does it matter.

  513. ac1 January 19th, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    more talk about Pettitte getting the family ok to come back.

  514. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    Crawford’s numbers will be inflated by slapping the ball off the wall in left 50 times a year.

    Same way Lowell’s were and most righties on that team, that have much better splits at home (significantly better).

    Crawford is a lefty, and lacks the power to go opposite field consistently. He also lacks the power to go deep in fenway to right field consistently.

  515. Yanksgal07 January 19th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    Joe…

    I’m sure it’s always been that way …I just feel you should take everything you read with a BIG grain of salt… :)

    I hope that’s true about Andy ….I’d love him back !!!

    Go Yankees 2011 !!!

  516. Gary January 19th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    I read the article after the news conference

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb

    I see Cash took the I got rolled by management route as opposed to his wait and patience. Thank god for mamangement at least we have a chance now.

  517. Nick in SF January 19th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    ‘I don’t want Player X’ on the Yankees is a poor foundation on which to base an opinion that the Yankees won’t be interested in Player X and/or Player X won’t be interested in the Yankees — unless one thinks that his views conform with those of the Yankees and/or Player X.

  518. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    Patrick January 19th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
    Abe is right that spending $35 million on Soriano is “bad business” but this is definitely a case of the pot calling the kettle black

    —————–

    I don’t know about that – it’s only bad business if you can’t afford to do it.

    If you can afford it and it doesn’t impact your other plans WGAF

  519. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    LGY-

    I have to admit I don’t recall that one.

  520. Chip January 19th, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    erkface January 19th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
    Crawford’s numbers will be inflated by slapping the ball off the wall in left 50 times a year.

    Same way Lowell’s were and most righties on that team, that have much better splits at home (significantly better).

    Crawford is a lefty, and lacks the power to go opposite field consistently. He also lacks the power to go deep in fenway to right field consistently.
    ——————-

    The Monster’s close enough for him to bang balls off of it and he doesn’t have to go deep to RF, just get it around the Pesky Pole

  521. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 19th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Hi Trader! :) I like seeing you here, also!

    *************

    Bojo, I’m certainly not trying to get Mitre or anyone else out of the picture. With the uncertainty of Andy’s situation, I wouldn’t mind seeing another “outsider” brought in. I have been a huge Mitre supporter in fact. That said, I would still love to see Galarraga on the Yankees.

    *************

    “I love how the Red Sox are now “ahead of the curve” by offering a non-powers hitter a 20 million dollar a year, 7 year deal.

    Please, what a bunch of nonsense.”

    SJ, people conveniently forget that Adrien Beltre and Victor Martinez have departed that team, so a lot of people are considering the signings a wash.

    Also, there are people on this forum, few though they are, that have a yearly mantra that goes something like this: “I’m telling you, watch out for the Suxers.” (they don’t say Suxers but that’s who they are.) “I have a feeling they are going to win the division, win the world series, win the Cy Young award, AND be awarded the nobel prize on how to organize a farm system!”

    And that’s not player dependent. It doesn’t matter WHO is on the team!

    :D

    Almost as nonsensical as that overhyped Red Sox farm system.

  522. TD213 January 19th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    “I see Cash took the I got rolled by management route as opposed to his wait and patience. Thank god for mamangement at least we have a chance now.”

    Agree. Props to Hal, Hank, Levine, whoever decided to actually improve the team, draft pick be damned.

  523. Erin January 19th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    Here’s my say on Pavano and then I’m taking a nice long break from Lohud for the rest of the day :)

    I am not a fan of Pavano. At all. That being said, Cashman was only doing his job. I don’t think many people would argue that the rotation is a little thin at the moment. If he does happen to come back (which I think is highly unlikely especially since I keep seeing tweets that he’s getting closer to a deal with the Twins)-I’ll just have to grin and bear it. If he comes back and has a good season for New York, fantastic. That doesn’t mean I’ll have to like the guy though. ;)

  524. Wave Your Hat January 19th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    trisha-

    I’m telling you, watch out for the Sox. :)

  525. LGY January 19th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    “I have to admit I don’t recall that one.”

    ————

    I may be misrepresenting how Chip claimed to know the relationship between floaties and Jesus Montero. ;)

  526. Yankee Trader January 19th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    Joe-

    Bail was set at 50k forBradley and he was due to get 10M in the last year of his contract, which depending on the outcome, could be in jeopardy.

  527. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    The Monster’s close enough for him to bang balls off of it and he doesn’t have to go deep to RF, just get it around the Pesky Pole

    No one consistently goes around the pesky pole, who has the ability to hit a ball hard enough to send it 300 feet and also put enough slice on it that it wraps perfectly around a pole? No one! And if you look at his spray charts his flyballs to the opposite field often don’t end up near the monster.

  528. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 19th, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    I’m tempted to repeat the oft-asked “Who gives a rat what Pete Abe thinks?” but obviously some do if they continue to follow his musings.

    The first time I care about what a Sux fan thinks about anything Yankee is when I voluntarily sign myself into a senility ward.

  529. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 19th, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Wave – :lol:

  530. Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    The pesky pole is like the lucky HR you hit on accident, you can’t develop a hitting strategy to hit it, you’ll end up sending most of your balls foul.

  531. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    Jerkface January 19th, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    The pesky pole is like the lucky HR you hit on accident, you can’t develop a hitting strategy to hit it, you’ll end up sending most of your balls foul.
    ++++++++++
    I think you just described my lottery retirement planning strategy…

  532. Yankee Trader January 19th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    RAB’s current article on Soriano:Food for Thought and scroll down some to No on Gallaraga

    dhttp://riveraveblues.com/

  533. BoJo January 19th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    Yankee Trader January 19th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    Joe-

    Bail was set at 50k forBradley and he was due to get 10M in the last year of his contract, which depending on the outcome, could be in jeopardy.
    ++++=+++++++++
    Bradley might have just done a HUGE favor for Seattle GM…allowing him to break a bad contract.

  534. Yankee Trader January 19th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    What’s your guess on what $$$ Andruw Jones will sign for. He’s still getting a 15M payout over 6 years from the Dodgers.

  535. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 19th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    Trader – I don’t know that RAB necessarily has any better insight than that stuff I read on lohud. That said, if they have anything to say about Soriano that lacks a glow, I don’t care to read it at all. The only food for thought I need on him is what I have witnessed with my own baby browns since he was with the Mariners.

    I just love the guy and what he brings to the table. I love that he has faced the vaunted AL East and handled them readily. I love that he has a personality pretty much like Mo’s.

    The guy can pitch.

    I’m full.

    :)

  536. Erica in NY January 19th, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    :arrow:

  537. Joe from Long Island January 19th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    FWIW – I just checked out Pete’s blog, Extra Bases, to see what’s going on there.

    Pete seems to be doing the same good job (IMO) of covering his latest team, but hasn’t forgotten his Yankees. In regards to the Soriano signing, he admits the Yanks have a strong BP, with Mariano, Soriano, Feliciano, and David Robertson. (Pete has always liked Robertson, and frequently compared him favorably to Daniel Bard – who is the heir apparent there.)

    He does some features of Red Sox players, those who are working hard, have interesting personal aspects, etc., similar to what I remember him doing here.

    No matter one’s opinion of Pete, he did do a good job of covering the players, and letting us know them as more than one-dimensional characters.

    I will now duck for cover……

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    The most laughable thing is the incessant whiners that seem to believe they know more than those on the Yankees making the decision to keep Joba in the BP, and not accepting the statements from the FO and Girardi that’s where they believe Joba should and will be.

    I guess some think if they call for Joba to get a shot at SP long and hard enough, the FO will be swayed, lol.

  539. Don January 20th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Pavano was a disaster communicating with the press in NY, and I believe in Minnesota too. It would be rough for him to come back here again.

  540. Dill Pickler January 21st, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    ‘You certainly can’t fault Cashman for exploring it” ???? Seriously???? Do you ever put down the pitcher of Kool-Aid that Cashman serves you? I mean, that line is almost beyond belief. Of course you can fault him! All winter long every writer covering baseball nearly gave out with a spittake whenever they mentioned Carl Pavano’s name in the same sentence as the Yankees. Now, when you find out that Cashman was — drunk or high or just plain stupid — enough to “explore” the possibility of bringing him back, you say “you can’t fault him”?

    Under what possible scenario do you think Yankee fans would have ever accepted Mr. Bruised Buttocks back? It’s insane. The thought that Cashman seriously considered it should give everyone real doubts about his sanity, let alone his continued employment with the Yankees.

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