Rays now favorites to win 2004 World Series
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Jan 22, 2011 
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Greetings from Pittsburgh, where I’ll be writing columns about the Jets this weekend. For those of you who may live in this area year-round: Wow. It’s really, really cold here. Kudos to all of you for not freezing on a daily basis.
Anyway, there have been some – what’s a nice way to say it? – interesting moves over the past few days, no? From an AL East standpoint, two things jump out at me:
1. If you’re a Yankees fan, you should probably start worrying more about the Blue Jays. Not because they’re going to be making much noise this year, necessarily, but because GM Alex Anthopoulous is the real deal. Anyone who can get Vernon Wells’s contract traded is a borderline miracle-worker in my book.
2. The Rays seem like they’re conducting their offseason in a time machine. Look, could they strike gold with Johnny Damon and Manny Ramirez? Sure. They could. As a value play I like Manny at $2 million more than Damon at $5 million-plus but in both cases there’s a reasonable chance that the Rays end up with two big names who don’t produce much (or, in Manny’s case, simply stop showing up to play). I understand it’s a hard time in Tampa right now and nobody goes to the games, but I’m not so sure that these two guys – once you get past the initial name value – will do much to help stabilize the franchise.
It’s also worth noting that, if you’re upset about how little the Yankees have done this offseason it could be worse – you could be an Angels fan. I’m sure GM Tony Reagins has some kind of reasonable explanation for wanting to take Vernon Wells from Toronto (I mean, he does hit for power sometimes) but that contract is just indefensible. Put it this way: The Angels will end up spending slightly more on Wells than they were planning to spend on Carl Crawford. I’m not a scout or anything, but that doesn’t seem like it makes a whole lot of sense.
* Those are AP shots of 2004-version Manny and Johnny.
. . . at least the Rays will have a better chance at taking second place than we do — while it is forgone conclusion that the 2011 R*d S*x will take first place in the A.L. East .
I had to read the thread title twice, lol.
Bojo, Melo is only 26 and Amare 28, so in time the Knicks would become title contenders – Rome wasn’t built in a day. Amare has been incredible, but he’s starting to wear down because he almost has to do it all – he’s taking a beating. He could use some help.
RS will be in the pennant race or wild card for sure ..hoping it’s the wild card, there are a lot of nice looking teams this year
I totally agree with Sam’s take above, Toronto GM Alex Anthopoulous is doing a great job.
Case-in-point. Pay attention New York and Boston. In 2012 the Toronto Blue Jays only have $14.5 million committed to payroll.
West Coast Yankee Fan January 22nd, 2011 at 12:54 pm
Case-in-point. Pay attention New York and Boston. In 2012 the Toronto Blue Jays only have $14.5 million committed to payroll.
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They will sitting pretty in 2012….only 14.5 million. It’s crazy just thinking about it.
WC for the Yanks in 2011?
Oh, well…there’s always 2012…or ’13.
well, ruby, you can ‘forgone conclusion’ this…
the socks have earned nothing and get nothing from me. they need a bunch of comebacks to rise up to the yankees level.
if you give up on your team before ST starts you are weak.
pay attention ny and boson in 2014 the jays have no players .
im already shaking…
Hilarious thread title!!!
YsGuy January 22nd, 2011 at 12:59 pm
pay attention ny and boson in 2014 the jays have no players .im already shaking…
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They have the players, they will have 7 free agents, 10 arbitration eligible players and tons of cash to pick and choose who they want to retain. They will also be in a great position to accumulate draft picks as they make those decisions. What GM would not want that kind of flexibility as they continue to try and build a winner.
AFTER the jays finish with 68 wins this year and have to populate thier roster with whomever will take thier money next offseaason, i will think about worrying about them. but to me they look more likely to switch places with baltimore than boston or ny.
wcyf, you are forgetting one important thing: the jays suck right now.
I think the Jays will be pretty good again next year. I think its unlikely that they will swing the bats again like they did in 2010 but their young pitching is for real and will make them competitive.
as of now my top ten SP Staff in the ML…THOUGHTS
Phil ( no doubt)
SF ( won WS with same)
Brewers ( added a stud & my pick to win the WS in 11)
Braves (solid 4 & Hanson future CY)
Marlins ( josh & watch JV have a huge year)
St Lou ( anchored by one of the best SP in BB)
RS ( if all are healthy with Depth will be very tough )
Angels ( bounce by Haren & their 3-4-5 are about the best in BB)
TB(solid 1-5)
SD (Mat Latos is going to be a good one & they had the best staff (ranked) in BB for much of the year until the tanked the last month or so
They are targeting the future YsGuy, no one expects them to win this year. For example, Brett Lawrie who they got for Marcum is number two on MLB.com’s list of top 10 prospects at second base. I see them winning 85 games; they will cause teams problems.
Lawrie is supposed to be the real deal.
I look forward to the added competition in the AL East. Doesn’t it feel pretty cool to be in the elite division? However depending on how this season plays out, it could be an excellent argument to restructure the playoff system.
What if the Yankees, Red Sox, Rays and Blue Jays are all good/great teams along with the Orioles being good?
# West Coast Yankee Fan January 22nd, 2011 at 1:13 pm
They are targeting the future YsGuy, no one expects them to win this year. For example, Brett Lawrie who they got for Marcum is number two on MLB.com’s list of top 10 prospects at second base. I see them winning 85 games; they will cause teams problems.
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better run and go bet them….
2011
Vegas odds for O/U games won
Toronto- 71 wins
So, all the Red Sox need is healthy and bounce back seasons for 3 of their five starters to be a top rotation? You can say the same about the Yankees. And since when is a 46 year old knuckleballer considered depth?
# joeman January 22nd, 2011 at 1:17 pm
# West Coast Yankee Fan January 22nd, 2011 at 1:13 pm
They are targeting the future YsGuy, no one expects them to win this year. For example, Brett Lawrie who they got for Marcum is number two on MLB.com’s list of top 10 prospects at second base. I see them winning 85 games; they will cause teams problems.
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better run and go bet them….
2011
Vegas odds for O/U games won
Toronto- 71 wins
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my bad scratch that that was 10 …O/U
I’d take the over on that.
# GreenBeret7 January 22nd, 2011 at 1:17 pm
So, all the Red Sox need is healthy and bounce back seasons for 3 of their five starters to be a top rotation? You can say the same about the Yankees. And since when is a 46 year old knuckleballer considered depth?
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what you read is what I said & thanks for your thought
This a good move by the Rays. Damon can still hit. Comerica is one of the toughest parks to hit in, the Trop one of the easiest. With the exception of team speed, the Rays just replaced offensively everything they’ve lost in Crawford and Pena. Damon and Manny’s combined on base percentage is still capable of being higher than Crawford and Pena’s. It’s a very good short term move for the Rays while they let top OF prospect Desmond Jennings develop.
“They are targeting the future YsGuy, no one expects them to win this year.”
the jays have been targeting the future since 1994, and are about to take a huge step in the other direction. the orioles have been ‘targeting the future’ since 1998. (they might make it to 82 wins this year.) the rays have always targeted the future, but it took them 10 years to lose 1 WS and no PS since.
right now, the jays stink. getting anywhere near challenging the yankees and socks is a pipe dream at this point.
and just being real right now I’ll take the RS top 6 SP over the Yankees top 3
Wakefield and Dice K are awful, there is no reason to expect them to be any better than what the Yankees will throw out there as 5th and 6th starters….where they could have an advantage is the 3 and 4 spots if Beckett and Lackey bounce back and if Andy retires. If Andy comes back then he and AJ could easily match Beckett and Lackey’s production.
so, if the yankees got out of the contracts of arod, jeter, tex, cc, aj, swisher, granderson, soriano, rivera, cano, posada and dont sign pettitte they’d really be poised to match up with next year’s jays then…
“I’m sure GM Tony Reagins has some kind of reasonable explanation for wanting to take Vernon Wells from Toronto”
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I’m telling you…check the wire transfers from Toronto to private accounts in the Cayman Islands if you want the full story!
Artificial turf. Just what two aging stars need for their already aching hammys, knees, and backs. This is hilarious!
Andy isn’t coming back…
Crawford got out of LF in The Trop to extend his career.
Damon must be trying to end his.
Lawrie has no power. Why would the Jays trade a 29 year old number 2 or 3 starter in Marcum for him is beyond me
joeman, what did pettitte say when you asked him about the clemmens trial?
joeman….Where did you find thosew future lines on the over / unders ???? My Vegas line still hasn’t updated yet ???
# blake January 22nd, 2011 at 1:29 pm
Wakefield and Dice K are awful, there is no reason to expect them to be any better than what the Yankees will throw out there as 5th and 6th starters….where they could have an advantage is the 3 and 4 spots if Beckett and Lackey bounce back and if Andy retires. If Andy comes back then he and AJ could easily match Beckett and Lackey’s production.
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thanks for your thought…think I’ll move the RS out of the 7th spot and move the Yankees in that spot
Andy will pitch at some point….you don’t stay in pitching shape for fun. If he’s working out this time of year then he’s planning on pitching again.
# Pat M. January 22nd, 2011 at 1:36 pm
joeman….Where did you find thosew future lines on the over / unders ???? My Vegas line still hasn’t updated yet ???
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nay nay Pat….I thought I was looking at 2011 O/U and they were 2010…
anybody willing to bet against the jays finishing in last place this year?
Id put the over /under for the Jays at right around 81 for 2011…..
Pettitte, around mid-late May, still gives him about 24-25 starts and all in warmer weather.
The Jays will battle the Rays for 3rd…..the Os will be better but they still don’t have enough good players to pull out of the basement IMO.
The worst possible mistake is having Ramirez on the same team as BJ Upton. Talk about role models.
yeah, the marcum deal is mystifying. they said it was about marcum wanting an extension, but what rising young pitcher doesnt?
could be some cano envy at work here…
When BJ sulks, Manny will comfort him GB.
Can you imagine the number of times Damon will have a pulled hammy this season running on that surface? He’ll spend more time on the DL than in LF.
As it is every season, the over / unders are always tough…….It’s not too bad when all you have to do is select 10 teams, but when you have to pick every team, well that’s when it’s a real challenge…..I did well in 2010 but 2011 starting to look tough….I’ll know better when the lines come out…..
# GreenBeret7 January 22nd, 2011 at 1:41 pm
Pettitte, around mid-late May, still gives him about 24-25 starts and all in warmer weather.
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even though Ive been saying for 3 months that Andy is done this could be true, maybe Andy is in the ear of the GM and telling him that because what they have in the 4-5 spot right now doesn’t cut it…can live with Nova at 5 but not Mirte ……..
GreenBeret7 January 22nd, 2011 at 1:42 pm
The worst possible mistake is having Ramirez on the same team as BJ Upton. Talk about role models.
++++++++++++++
Not sure why you feel that way..
1) All I ever heard from LA players was how professional Manny was in preparing for a gme…taught them all something
2) Manny will be able to show BJ all the top strip clubs in the majors…You certainly don’t want your young players wasting time looking when the experienced players can take them right there.
gb,
great point. maybe it’s a good thing for the yankees. bj upton’s trade value may decrease
blake, contracts aside, the jays just lost thier best hitter and thier best pitcher.
The Jays have young pitching…they needed a 2b and Lawrie is one of the best prospects in baseball at that position. You trim payroll and possibly fill a hole by dealing a player you will lose anyway soon….makes sense to me.
DaSaint007 January 22nd, 2011 at 1:48 pm
Can you imagine the number of times Damon will have a pulled hammy this season running on that surface? He’ll spend more time on the DL than in LF.
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Sure, but just imagine what a great impact the AJ Whisperer (per Nick) will have on that young pitching staff…
Im not sure Marcum is their best pitcher….
Toronto GM reminds me of what the Knicks Gm has been doing…shredding contracts to make room for future investments. Concurrently, he has been agressive in IFA market, and also almost tripled his scouting staff. This guy is showing a lot of potential as a GM.
As Casey might have said…”THis young man is only 33, and in 10 years, he has a GREAT chance to be 43.”
The only thing that Ramirez cares about is hitting (and he’s slipping fast and losing power) and getting paid. winning is near the bottom of the list. He’s like the slow witted kid down the street who walks around smiling and staring off into space. After 38 years, watching ceiling fans turn in circles still amazes and confuses him.
blake……if Toronto were to be at 81, I’d place a good chunk of my allocation of funds on the unders…
I personally love Damon. He’s classy, straightforward, and a smart player (remember that ‘double steal’). But he’s a liability in LF. I can’t wait for the Yankees to play TB! Can you imagine a ‘routine’ deep fly to left with Damon there? First he’ll lose it against the ceiling, then it’ll drop in.
Even Posada would leg out a triple.
Marcum was about their 2nd or 3rd best pitcher, and they have Drabek coming so they needed to open a spot. Getting that 2B prospect allows them to move Hill to 3B.. Was a smart move in a series of smart moves by that GM.
well you could argue romero was better than marcum last year, but there wasnt much space between them. they have other guys with alot of potential, but marcum was a very good pitcher getting better at the top of thier rotation last year. even if romero stays there and morrow steps up to whats projected for him, they still have one less very good pitcher that other teams have to deal with.
and if they had gotten rid of wells in october and then spent that money this winter on fa’s they might be nearly as good as last year, but in this case, they pocket the savings on wells and replace him in the lineup with napoli.
potential and prospects and payroll flexibility are great things, just ask the pirates.
BJ Upton’s trade value right now isn’t much different than Chamberlain’s. a lot of talent and the only hope of moving him is finding a team that believes that they can find a way to fix him.
Pat M,
I think the Jays will be right around. 500….might be a couple under or over……I don’t think Id bet much at all on that one.
They couldn’t have done the Wells deal in October. Moreno had to self-implode in his FA pursuits before he had to turn to the Jays.
At different times of the day I have the same feelings about AP’s possible return:
joeman January 22nd, 2011 at 1:34 pm
Andy isn’t coming back…
blake January 22nd, 2011 at 1:38 pm
Andy will pitch at some point….you don’t stay in pitching shape for fun. If he’s working out this time of year then he’s planning on pitching again.
GreenBeret7 January 22nd, 2011 at 1:41 pm
Pettitte, around mid-late May, still gives him about 24-25 starts and all in warmer weather.
But ultimately I decided that AP himself has not decided what he will do and is working out for that exact reason … he is not sure … even now. Anything else anyone says here or elsewhere is likely to be speculation on their part. Nothing wrong with that but I surely would love to hear something which is not speculation.
I am a huge AP fan and hope he feels he can come back and contribute and that he wants to come back. But if he does not then I wish him a great next career and that the Yankees not be reluctant to give the younger arms (those with at least 125 innigs in one season and with strong results at the AA level at the minimum) a chance to perform.
Before the Jones signing, I would have done a Joba for BJ trade…If the Yankees are not going to start Joba, I would welcome Upton…he is going to be a very good player once he matures.
“Marcum was about their 2nd or 3rd best pitcher”
ok so we put aside the romero/marcum thing (marcum had one less win, lower era, lower whip and slightly better era+ than romero) who are you nominating for thier other ‘best 3′ pitcher?
Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Drabek…not bad. I think Morrow is going to be the #1 on that staff pretty soon…..
Toronto needs to find a way to get Hill, Synder and Lind back close to the 2009 versions and that Bautista doesn’t slip backwards closer to his normal numbers. That’s the only way they’ll be serious contenders this season coming.
Morrow and Cecil both have better upside IMO. Morrow for power arm and Cecil becuse I miss Bernie and Cecil…or because he is a lefty.
MLB.. vegasinsider…
Brewers 100/1 to win the 2011 WS…
I like crafty lefties in AL East–which is why I think Jays valued Romero and Cecil over Marcum
Tampa’s been waiting for upton to mature for 5 years now. He’ll be 27 years old this coming summer. He’s running out of time.
My guess:
Yankees and Sox: 95-100 wins
Rays and Jays: 80-85 wins
Orioles: 70-75 wins
GreenBeret7 January 22nd, 2011 at 2:09 pm
Tampa’s been waiting for upton to mature for 5 years now. He’ll be 27 years old this coming summer. He’s running out of time.
______________
IIRC, it used to be 28 that player hit his prime.
I didn’t say “hitting his prime”. I said “mature” as in mentally. He’s fast becoming a dog and teaming him with Ramirez isn’t going to help that a lot.
The other reason for moving Marcum was he was oldest of bunch–28 last year versus 25 and under for the others on staff. He was the right one to trade.
blake……Until the lines come out it’s mere speculation on my part….I have 2 grand I need to disperse throughout the 30 teams with a minimum of 20.00 on a team…….I only missed on 6 teams last season , and as I did last spring I’ll request input from members here……Their top 5 picks……CB gave me Houston as an under which looked like a lock until September when they got hot……They covered the under by a game in the end for a 100.00…
GreenBeret7 January 22nd, 2011 at 2:13 pm
I didn’t say “hitting his prime”. I said “mature” as in mentally.
++++++++++++++++++
I don’t know if mentally mature is even possible…:-)
morrow is nice, almost as good as phil in his first full year as a starter. gotta work on that 4.49 era though and 4.49 bb/9 is scary.
drabek was expected to be contributing to the phils by now, so maybe the extra development time is a good thing. but right now, he’s about 247 wins short of the HOF. we’ll see.
romero is nice and cecil has potential as does rzp^#&%&t%$$ whatever, showed flashes.
this is hardly a staff that could so easily throw away thier #1 imo.
Upton is nothing more than a more talented version of Milton Bradley and Lasting Milledge. Almost to the point of not being worth the effort to try fixing him.
sorry i obviously mixed that up.. morrow’s bb/9 if 4.1. still scary…
here is the thing about the jays and having only 14 mil on the books in 2012. You still have to convince free agents to come play there. How has that worked so far?
The Jays do not suck at all – they were very good last year. They have huge talent in the pitching staff and the can hit and their farm has been rebuilt. IMO, they are a scary team going forward……..but then you could say that about the Rays as well, even if they don’t win this year.
how come the jays future is so bright with unproven pitching prospects but our pitching is so bleak with unproven pitching prospects?
# Pat M. January 22nd, 2011 at 2:15 pm
blake……Until the lines come out it’s mere speculation on my part….I have 2 grand I need to disperse throughout the 30 teams with a minimum of 20.00 on a team…….I only missed on 6 teams last season , and as I did last spring I’ll request input from members here……Their top 5 picks……CB gave me Houston as an under which looked like a lock until September when they got hot……They covered the under by a game in the end for a 100.00…
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when the times comes give me your top 3 so we can both win some Cash
I’m still getting a kick out of Damon’s contract containing an attendance clause.
Is he going to wear a top hat and cane and do a song and dance act between innings?
“Come on out to The Trop. Your whole family will be talking about Johnny Damon’s closing number for weeks!”
so far nobody has stepped up to take my bet of the jays in last place.
you dont lose the heart of your batting order and your best pitcher without replacing them and not take a big step backwards.
the potential thing might (or might not) turn into something, the orioles and pirates will be glad to weigh in on that, but today, the jays suck.
Blake, Dice K is awful as a #2 guy, but as a #4 or 5, he’s pretty good. Lackey doesn’t have to be great, he just has to be good – he’s not all THAT far off from being that. I just have think Beckett is a better pitcher than AJ when he’s right, so although he can be inconsistent when he’s healthy, I certainly give the Sox an edge there. Their 1-2 punch better than ours and it’s not that close IMO and we have a kid in the #5 spot, probably in the #4 spot as well. Sox need some bounce back in their rotation, but we not only need bounceback (and HUGE- AJ simply being barely better than he was last year is not acceptable), we need improvement and something of a miracle with 2 kids there.
# YsGuy January 22nd, 2011 at 2:32 pm
how come the jays future is so bright with unproven pitching prospects but our pitching is so bleak with unproven pitching prospects?
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NY media and fan base too intense/pessimistic
how come the jays future is so bright with unproven pitching prospects but our pitching is so bleak with unproven pitching prospects?
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Good question. Also, what above-average FA is going to want to play in Toronto?
Morrow has a huge ceilling, though – and his good starts were scary. He’s much better than nice.
Jays have Romero and Cecil – hardly unproven young pitchers – and Morrow, should he develop further – could be elite. Yankees don’t have that………..
Blake, Dice K is awful as a #2 guy, but as a #4 or 5, he’s pretty good. Lackey doesn’t have to be great, he just has to be good – he’s not all THAT far off from being that. I just have think Beckett is a better pitcher than AJ when he’s right, so although he can be inconsistent when he’s healthy, I certainly give the Sox an edge there. Their 1-2 punch better than ours and it’s not that close IMO and we have a kid in the #5 spot, probably in the #4 spot as well. Sox need some bounce back in their rotation, but we not only need bounceback (and HUGE- AJ simply being barely better than he was last year is not acceptable), we need improvement and something of a miracle with 2 kids there.
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Beckett has been on the DL in each of the last 3 or 4 seasons. Lackey’s fenway numbers are not great. Dice-K also has been less than healthy each of his seasons. Lester is their ace. They have the same questions.
That is, they don’t have that at all on their staff……….the Yankees staff is full of question marks and I don’t see how it’s possible to say it’s not. We have a few huge prospects coming up in the next couple of years, but right now they are just prospects…….plus, I’m just not enamored of our position prospects except for Montero and possibly Romine. The Jays have rebuilt their organization in a very short amount of time.
yes morrow continues to have that huge ceiling as he turns 26 and begins his 5th mlb season. but when do we start saying he is what he is, which isnt great, and needs to show some movement toward that ceiling pretty quick? some were asking these questions of him at the start of last season and he made pretty much no further progress toward that ceiling.
Lester and Buchholz are a tremendous 1-2 punch. I know Beckett has to prove he can be healthy, but if Andy returns, so does Andy. AJ has a ton more question marks to answer than Josh. Lackey has to improve, but he finished strongly last year. As I said, he doesn’t have to be great, he just has to be solid and then they have an excellent first 3. CC has to be his usual self, Phil has to improve quite a bit to pitch like a #2, AJ has to take a quantum leap and we have two kids (or 1 kid and Mitre) who have to be good and/or (in Mitre’s case) make improvements I’m not sure he’s capable of
He already showed movement towards that ceiling last year………..plenty of movement. He finished the season extremely well and had scary good games.
Excuse me, I meant MOntero and possibly Sanchez.
romero is great, but is he that much greater than phil? his era was lower last season. (but his era+ was only slightly better). phil’s whip, bb/9 and k/9 were better than romero’s. oh and romero is a year and a half older than phil.
regarding morrow,mitre has also had some great games. the #’s still say morrow’s good pitcher but his prospect status is diminishing with each passing year.
Let’s wait to see if Cecil can get his ERA under 4.60 before calling him proven. Can Morrow continue to improve while fighting off the Juvenile Diabetes? Let’s wait and see. Drabek? Who knows? He’s no more a sure thing than Betances, Brackman or any of the young Yankee pitchers.
I am officially terrified of Toronto — and Tampa, Baltimore, and Boston. I don’t think the Yankees are going to be able to win many games against these crafty franchises.
The bright side is that, within 20 years or so, virtually every player in these teams’ systems will be out of baseball and most likely the management will all be different too.
How are we going to get through these difficult 20 years, though??? It won’t be easy.
Nick, we have each other……. we’ll get through it together.
Again, and maybe I should just learn how to bite my tongue, but it absolutely fascinates me how for some fans the Yankees’ question marks will be answered in the negative and other teams’ question marks will be answered in the affirmative.
I understand not everyone looks at things the same way, but I find it odd that where the Yankees are concerned, the glass is ALWAYS half empty, while for other teams, the glass is ALWAYS half full.
I understand the Yankees have question marks. Some big ones in the rotation.
But I also understand that every other team in the division, and in the league for that matter, has its own question marks entering the season.
Everyone has to hope to be healthy.
Everyone has to hope for some of their players to have bounce-back years.
Every team has to hope for contribution from its own system.
I don’t see the Yankees being in far worse shape that most teams out there. I truly do not.
I see the teams in their division being very good competitors, but by no means do I think the Yankees are not going to be very good competitors as well.
I do not understand why it is such a big deal that Toronto’s operating budge next year is low. They still have to get players; they still have to win. Last I heard, you don’t get extra wins for doing it at low budget. Also, I don’t like the hypocrisy that is rampant – YAY the Blue Jays have a low budget, and yet when the Yankees try to toe the line somewhat there is screaming about how they have more money than God and should spend whatever it takes.
But mostly, I’d just like Yankee fans to show the same magnanimity toward their own team as they do for every other team.
(Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
)
Nick in SF -
Sure wish I had your way with words.
Drabek is no sure thing, that’s true – no young pitcher is. I just respect and admire the job AA has done. I’m not surprised – he said months ago that the Jays were going to be aggressive in the international market and they have been (and obviously in other areas as well)
The grass is always greener on the other side:
‘huge talent in the pitching staff’ – Huge talent on the Yankees: CC & Hughes
players that ‘should he develop further – could be elite’ – that’s normally what happens when players develop, they can be elite.
‘farm system has been rebuilt’ – Yankee system too
‘have rebuilt their organization in a very short amount of time’ – losing will prompt you to do that.
‘showed movement towards that ceiling last year’ – sounds like a politician
Good Counterpoint:
morrow continues to have that huge ceiling as he turns 26 and begins his 5th mlb season
Huge ceilings…great potential…
morrow is inconsistent but we need to be scared of him, he has some great outings.
aj is going to kill the yankees because despite some great outings he is inconsistent.
morrow has great potential, hughes, though an all-star in his first year as a starter, will never improve.
drabek is going to the HOF, brackman is an overblown prospect.
the jays have a 2b prospect, cano might not be able to challenge for the mvp this year.
i dont see why we even bother buying tickets.
Doreen, I asked that ? last year and in general I agree, but IMO the Yankees question marks (at least in the rotation) are not as easy to answer positively as the Sox because the Yankees question marks have to improve markedly while the Sox question marks have to improve, but not nearly so much. I don’t get why it’s a big deal for people to have concerns about the Yankees as if it makes them lesser fans.
You can say all the negative things about Manny you want, and most of them are true, but he hit .298/.409/.460 last year while possibly playing injured part of the time. .870 OPS. If he does just that again it’s a tremendous pickup for 2 mil. Now we have reports that Manny is working his ass off and is in great shape. And all he has to do now is hit. He signed for 2 mil. You don’t think he’ll be motivated to have a great season and get another big contract after this year? He’s obviously not playing for the money he’ll make this year.
Well it does help when teams draft in the first 10-15 spots, year after year. That always makes the GM smart. Of course, the questions about why these same GMs have had teams that bad, year after year never seems to get answered, though.
Pat M,
you obviously know more about this sort of thing than I do so your gut is probably more reliable than mine…
Betsy,
not a big Dice K fan no matter where he pitches in a rotation…..
Betsy,,,,,You certain you’re a NYC girl ??? Parania strikes deep,,,,into your life it will creep,,,,,,,It all starts when your always afraid……..” FOR WHAT IT’S WORTH”…Buffulo Springfield…..
Da Saint, are you saying that all young pitchers can be elite? Morrow has that type of ceiling – not everyone has that. Just because pitcher A may develop to the best of his ability doesn’t mean that pitcher A is going to be elite – all talent is not created equal.
First of all, Toronto did not rebuilt quickly because they’ve been losing. They were good in 2010 and good for most of the year in 2009 – it’s not like they were Pitt. They rebuilt their farm system because they traded Halladay and did not act like Bill Smith in doing so. They traded a good asset in Marcum and have made judicious trades besides.
I’m not going to get into the Yankees’ farm system again as that’s been done to death.
Pat M, are you questioning my Yankee fanhood? If so, I really have nothing to say. If not, then please explain what you mean. I don’t like being told I’m paranoid either.
” If you’re a Yankees fan, you should probably start worrying more about the Blue Jays. Not because they’re going to be making much noise this year, necessarily, but because GM Alex Anthopoulous is the real deal”
why would a yankee fan worry about their gm competing with Alex Anthopoulous . doesn’t he only have about 80 million he can spend on players? doesn’t brian cashman have about 200 million he can spend on players ?
how could an 80 million dollar gm beat a 200 million dollar gm?
… unless the 200 million dollar gm wasn’t very good that is. oh, now i see where you’re going. very nice backdoor cashman criticism
Blake, I don’t think he’s any great shakes either – just saying that he’s not bad at the back end (I wonder why the Sox don’t get criticized for spending that much $$$ on basically a mediocre pitcher)
But, Betsy, I don’t understand why the Red Sox don’t have to improve as much? The Yankees did better last season with a crummy AJ and a rotating #5 after Pettitte when down and a rag-tag #4 because of Javy.
I understand that with Pedroia and Youkilis back, their offense should be a bit better. But I don’t give them plus-plus for getting Gonzalez and Crawford, because the two players that are not coming back, Beltre and Martinez, had excellent offensive years last year, and Beltre was excellent in the field.
AGon has to learn a new league (which may or may not be an issue for him) and Crawford is a known quantity – he’s no different on the Sox than he was on the Rays as far as the Yankees are concerned.
As for pitching, well Dice-K is as big a question mark as there is on any staff. Lester is a given; I feel Bucholz will be good, but will not duplicate his 2010. Beckett and Lackey need to be good. Not only was Beckett injured, but he wasn’t his usually very good self even when healthy. He could be tapering off, career-wise. Lackey does not scare me.
I think the Yankees and Red Sox will split their games as they do every year.
I think the Blue Jays can be good, but can they be that much better than last season? We’ll see.
Same with Baltimore.
And I think the Rays without a shut-down bullpen are not the team that had to be reckoned with in 2010. The Yankees are a good come-back team, generally speaking.
Again, we’ll see.
I just wish the Yankees would get more respect from their own fans is all. Although I do understand that the closer you are to something the harder it is to see it (and that’s good and bad).
We’re pretty knowledgeable here, but how many of us follow any other team AS CLOSELY as we follow the Yankees?
Betsy,
You said Toronto rebuilt their system quickly, not me. And I didn’t know ‘good’ was good enough. After all, you don’t want the Yankees to be just ‘good’ do you??
Morrow has the type of ceiling to be elite? Based on what?
His 3-4 4.12 ERA in 2007?
His 3-4 3.34 ERA in 2008?
His 2-4 4.39 ERA in 2009?
or His 10-7 4.49 ERA in 2010?
Yeah, elite. I know he was a reliever before converting to starter, but honestly, it just apppears to be Joba-like performance to me. Unless you’re saying that Joba has the potential to be elite also?
randy l. January 22nd, 2011 at 3:06 pm
” If you’re a Yankees fan, you should probably start worrying more about the Blue Jays. Not because they’re going to be making much noise this year, necessarily, but because GM Alex Anthopoulous is the real deal”
why would a yankee fan worry about their gm competing with Alex Anthopoulous . doesn’t he only have about 80 million he can spend on players? doesn’t brian cashman have about 200 million he can spend on players ?
++++++++++++++
I think the poster was referring to the “winner-take-all-GMs-rappelling-off-the-tower” event next December in Stamford, CT.
Doreen, ok that’s all fair. I don’t think AGon will have any trouble adjusting – pitchers are pitchers. They are the same whether they are in the NL or AL – he’s just a great hitter. You’re right – Crawford is the same; it’s not like he came from the NL West – we have faced him over the years on the Rays. However, I do think he fits well with the Sox – he’ll get on base for the beasts behind him. We don’t know that Beltre would have repeated last year ………. The offense isn’t really the thing, though. The Sox I feel will have a tremendous offense, but if things go the Yankees way, they can as well. Still, it’s hard to forget the times the Yankees made the least out of a great situation (not scoring with bases loaded, scoring just once, not moving the runners over).
It’s the SP that really concerns me. Lackey I think will improve, so he’s fine as the #3. Beckett and AJ can be compared – I think Beckett has a better chance to be very good than AJ does, but I agree it’s no sure thing. Dice K is a #4 or #5 – he’s not great by any means, but he’s better than what the Yankees will throw out there.
I think the Sox are the best team, but by no means am I conceding anything. For one, I don’t believe in conceding – I mean, that’s why they play the games. For another, we can list logically all the reasons things might or might not happen, but in reality, players improve or regress without rhyme or reason – in other words, life and sports are unpredictable.
Da Saint, he’s got an amazing arm and he finished the season well. I didn’t say he was elite, I said he has that ceiling. For all I know he could implode and turn into a Joba -who’s to say?
Generally speaking, pitchers with great arms are seen to have high ceilings – thus has been the word on Morrow. Now he’s going to have to put it all together at some point, no doubt; he might or might not – such is the way with youngish pitchers
new one
Betsy,
Here’s something to make you feel a bit better: boston has a glaring achilles heel. I’m doing some analysis and will speak on it another time, but trust me, they are as vulnerable or more vulnerable than any team in the AL East.
Da Saint, by no means are the Sox perfect………….and I would love to see them crash and burn, lol. In the meantime, Andy coming back would be huge, but I don’t see it.
It’s true that the Yankees had a few games that should have been finished off a lot better. But to me that was LAST season. The year before, they did the opposite – how many walk-offs? (Though, I have no problem with winning games early, mind you – walk-offs are exciting, but don’t always mean good things, depending on the particular game.)
So, for something like that, I’ll see what personality the 2011 Yankees have.
I like that Tex is doing something about his difficulties. Same with Jeter. I expect Granderson, Cano & Swisher to continue working, and Alex, well, who would question his work – his hip, yes, his work, no. So I see a team that is not complacent and not content with how things finished out. This is a very positive sign. (And I realize other players on other teams are doing much the same.) But looking at our Yankees, I’m happy to see what I’m seeing.
Doreen, again, that’s fair………2011 is a new year.
I agree about Tex and Jeter – I really feel Jeter will have a bounce back year. Cano continues to work hard – a very encouraging thing. After reaching stardom last year, he could have just slacked off – but he hasn’t. If Alex is healthy, I see a huge year. He still had good power and RBI numbers despite having an “off” year – that’s how good he is.
Walk-off wins are like winning a lot of 1 run games in a season. They’re exciting, but, it also means that not everything is clicking. Those types of years are not something that gets repeated year after year. The Yanks are one of the few teams that win more one run games year after year. They generally run in cycles. A few years ago, I picked a team just to check out one run games over a 10 year stretch, and I picked the White Sox because they won over 30 one run games. Only once in that 10 years did they have back to back seasons of winning more one run games than they lost. Most other teams are pretty much the same. A lot of luck in winning that many one run games. Give me a team that scores 10 runs in the first inning and slowly pulls away, any time.
The Yanks will be paying more for Jorge Posada in 2011 then it would have cost to sign Damon, Manny AND Vlad Guerrero combined. Sickening.
CCBiggs,
one has nothing to do with the other.until now,the guy was the team’s starting catcher & the mets were inclined to give him a fourth yr.what’s more,despite the big salary,I expect a great yr at DH out of him.
Just because one has nothing to do with the other doesn’t make it any less horrifying.
As for your expectation that Jorge will have a great year in 2011, keep dreaming. He didn’t do a lot of catching in 2010 and his bat was still very mediocre. And he’s a year older now.