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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Decisions to be named later

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 26, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

When today’s guest post suggestion first popped into my email inbox, I remember immediately trying to come up with Brian Cashman’s most embarrassing prospect loss. Mike Lowell, maybe? That’s a bad one, but it also came more than a decade ago. Most recently, Ben’s right on the money: Cashman has traded away young players who became solid big leaguers, but no stars.

Giving away C.J. Henry for Bobby Abreu was a steal. So was landing Nick Swisher for a package built around Jeff Marquez. When the Yankees traded for Alex Rodriguez, the PTBNL was Joaquin Arias, who actually had quite a bit of prospect clout at the time. As Ed pointed out, Dioner Navarro and Brandon Claussen never developed into stars. I’ll add that neither did John-Ford Griffin, who was traded barely a year after being a first-round draft pick.

It’s hard to argue that Cashman has generally known which prospects to keep and which to trade, but to be fair, some of Cashman’s recent prospect dealing is still to be determined. Four trades that standout to me as to-be-judged-later:

July 26, 2008
Fighting to make the playoffs, Cashman made a deal with the Pirates to add outfielder Xavier Nady and left-handed reliever Damaso Marte.
The cost: Jose Tabata, Ross Ohlendrof, Jeff Karstens and Dan McCutchen

There’s no chance this trade will ever be a positive for the Yankees. They missed the playoffs in 2008, Nady was hurt in 2009 and Marte has been a disappointment (aside from the ’09 playoffs). This was a bad trade for the Yankees, the only question is how bad. It hinges on Ohlendorf to some extent — he’s proven to be a solid starter, might never step to the next level — but it mostly hinges on Tabata. Always highly touted, Tabata’s stock had taken a hit when the Yankees traded him, and he bounced back with the Pirates. Tabata hit .299/.346/.400 last season. For a Yankees team light on upper-level outfielders, he’d be a nice option in 2011.

December 8, 2009
Uncertain about Austin Jackson’s ultimate upside, the Yankees worked a three-way trade to add Curtis Granderson as a short-term and long-term solution in center field.
The cost: Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy and Phil Coke

Whether the trade was worth it will depend on whether Granderson keeps making the strides. Whether Cashman gave up the wrong prospects will almost certainly depend on Kennedy and Jackson. There’s no question the Yankees sold low on Kennedy, who was one year removed from a brutal showing in New York, and only a few months removed from surgery. Kennedy pitched well next season, and could help in their current situation. Did the Yankees give up too soon? Jackson was a Rookie of the Year candidate, but high strikeout total and relatively low power numbers were significant reasons the Yankees were willing to lose him. There’s was never any doubt Jackson would be a solid big leaguer, the question was — and is — whether he can take the next step to become a star.

December 22, 2009
Looking to add stability to the back of the rotation, the Yankees traded for Javier Vazquez, who was coming off a career year and had always — except his one previous year in New York — been a steady source of 200-plus innings.
The cost: Melky Cabrera, Mike Dunn and Arodys Vizcaino

Short-term, the trade didn’t work especially well for either team. Dunn and Boone Logan pretty much negated one anther, while both Cabrera and Vazquez were significant disappointments. The long-term impact of this trade will depend on Vizcaino, who was considered the Yankees top lower-level pitching prospect, ranked as high as No. 3 overall in the Yankees organization by Baseball America. There’s raw talent, but Vizcaino is young enough that there’s significant risk between now and his potential big league debut. His first year with the Braves was cut short by injury, though not before he had a dominant 14-start stretch in Low A.

July 30, 2010
Needing to upgrade the bench and add some outfield depth, the Yankees made a move for fourth outfielder Austin Kearns, who was hitting .272/.354/.419 at the time in Cleveland.
The cost: Zach McAllister

Kearns was a huge asset for a brief time with the Yankees — at a time when injury meant he was a key part of the lineup — but he ultimately finished with awful numbers in New York. To get him, the Yankees gave up a starting pitcher who was having the first truly bad season of his career. McAllister had been a highly touted pitcher, one of the high points even in the Yankees deep system, but he had a 5.09 ERA in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre at the time of the trade. Clearly McAllister isn’t missed right now — too many other pitchers have taken significant steps forward — but if McAllister bounces back, he could certainly be a player the Yankees regret losing.

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316 Responses to “Decisions to be named later”

  1. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    I didn’t notice you providing a link specifically referring to their support of Cashman’s statement calling people stupid. I’ll wait for it. If they didn’t have a problem with it, you are right, it tell me a lot.

    Listen to his talk with Michael Kay on ESPN radio yesterday, he says all of his public comments are with the blessing of ownership and he wouldn’t say anything that the bosses didn’t approve.

  2. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    Cash has gone gangsta.
    No longer the stealth elf.

  3. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    There’s no chance this trade will ever be a positive for the Yankees. They missed the playoffs in 2008, Nady was hurt in 2009 and Marte has been a disappointment (aside from the ’09 playoffs). This was a bad trade for the Yankees, the only question is how bad. It hinges on Ohlendorf to some extent — he’s proven to be a solid starter, might never step to the next level — but it mostly hinges on Tabata.

    I disagree, Chad. Having Marte on the 2009 WS roster directly led to a world series win. He was filthy dominant in that series. He made mince meat of the philly lefties. He faced 8 batters and struck out 5 of them! And got all of them out. sick!

  4. blake January 26th, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    Any of you guys see the clip of Kurt Suzuki jumping out of the swimming pool on hot stove…..4 feet deep….for those that don’t know, that’s incredibly hard to do and takes crazy strong legs.

  5. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 26th, 2011 at 7:02 pm

    “It wasn’t an anology, it was just a joke. If you ask people on a baseball blog to comment as if they’re on a Teletubbies blog, there will be jokes.”

    Well thankfully only one person felt the need to come forward with a joke. So maybe some others agree or at least thought about it. One person’s Telletubby is another person’s common courtesy. Or something like that.

  6. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 7:02 pm

    Jerkface, I agree………….we won a WS and probably wouldn’t have without him as everyone else in the pen was awful. I hardly think Tabata has set the world on fire

  7. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    Ohlendorf? Really? He’s a decent starter on the Pirates- he’s not exactly a world beater.

  8. Crawdaddy January 26th, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    The Good Cashman: His public comments I agree with.

    The Bad Cashman: His public comments I don’t agree with.

  9. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    I love Granderson, so I’m fine with the trade; I think he’ll have a big year in 2011

  10. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    You love Granderson OR are you in love with him?
    There is a difference.

  11. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 26th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    “Don’t count on it.
    =========
    You can take em.”

    :)

    Thanks for that Mick! But you know, it just doesn’t mean enough to me. I need to conserve my energy for more important things.

  12. Nick in SF January 26th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    Colon is a bit tubby, true, but I think he knows that.

  13. blake January 26th, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    For comparison, Theo has traded away Hanley Ramierez and even worse….Casey Kelly.

  14. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    Thanks for that Mick! But you know, it just doesn’t mean enough to me. I need to conserve my energy for more important things.
    ==========================
    You have mellowed.

  15. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    I saw that post on RAB. It’s an interesting theory.

    To me, it’s more plausible than tendinitis along causing the diminshing of his stuff.
    ++++++++++++++++
    I also read the article. But how long does it take for such an injury to heal? Are we to believe that Joba will never recover from it, especially when his velocity improved so much at the end of last year?

    And why can’t he start even with the injury? He pitched well enough to be a 5th starter in 2009–the year following hte injury. Until August 8th or so, he was having a very good year.

  16. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 26th, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    “You have mellowed.”

    I think it’s more that I just choose to put my energy into things that are meaningful to me. I’ll fight to the death for something I consider important. Jousting with Nick isn’t one of those things.

  17. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    I think it’s more that I just choose to put my energy into things that are meaningful to me. I’ll fight to the death for something I consider important. Jousting with Nick isn’t one of those things.
    ====================================
    You are a legend in your own mind.

  18. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    To the death? Jeez.

  19. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 26th, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    I really like Joba and still believe in his stuff. I hope that things come together for him in such a way that he is able to harnass his talent and finally realize the promise that was part of his draw.

  20. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 26th, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    “To the death? Jeez.”

    Never heard that saying Rich?

  21. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    Colon is in great shape–if you like spheres.

  22. blake January 26th, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    Angels, Weaver Begin Talks About Long-Term Deal
    By Mike Axisa [January 26 at 5:15pm CST]

    The Angels and Jered Weaver have opened talks about a long-term contract extension according to team owner Arte Moreno, reports Mark Saxon of ESPN Los Angeles. Moreno also commented on the reported bad blood between the team and Weaver’s agent, Scott Boras…

    “My mother always told me, ‘If you don’t have something nice to say about somebody, don’t say anything,’” said Moreno. “I don’t have to deal with anybody I don’t have to deal with. That’s the way I live my life.

    - The interesting part of this is that Moreno basically says he’s just not dealing with Boras at all…..which cuts the Angels out of a great number of good players.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

  23. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    able to harnass his talent
    ===================
    like that spelling…

  24. ericns1 January 26th, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    These trades are why if Cash leaves I am conflicted – I will miss him but he is not Gabe Paul, or Stick

  25. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 26th, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    harness

  26. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    The Vazquez trade, right now is a push. Later on, maybe not. That can go either way. The Yanks did turn him into a supplemental pick. On the other end, Cabrera was bounced out of Atlanta and Dunn, other than throwing hard and being left handed is still wild and Logan was more than a good replacement. That leaves Vizcaino. A top talent that’s at least 3 years away. His biggest issue now is whether the half a season and a winter of rest was long enough for the ligament tear in his elbow has healed or whether he wasted that recovery time by not having surgery.

  27. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 26th, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    “My mother always told me, ‘If you don’t have something nice to say about somebody, don’t say anything,’”

    Moreno had a smart mother.

    ;)

  28. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    “Never heard that saying Rich?”

    I think it’s one of those things that are better left unsaid.

  29. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    Repost From Last Subject:

    Not to change the subject, but….

    Yes, I did mean to, because this whining about what Cashman said is beyond stupid.

    Last night, there were remarks made on here about the new CBA and whether the owners will push for hard slotting. They’ll have to give up something larde to push that through. Something huge like ending compensation picks for signing Type A and Type B free agents

  30. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    Chad–

    I still use the following barometer for judging a trade: “Would th eplayer have been able to win a starting job and contribute on the Yankees?”

    Given that:
    1) Kennedy–maybe, but AL East is tough.
    2) Jackson–No, team would not have accepted his K rate and low power
    3) Coke–THings go better withOUT Coke
    4) Tabata–Maybe
    5) Ohlendorf–No, next wave of prospects would have bypassed him
    6) McAllister–wouldn’t even have kept job at SWB
    7) Cabrerra–Nope
    8) Dunne–a wash
    9) Viz–Maybe but a long way to go

    The only one I see passing my criteria is Tabata–and at the time, he was exhibiting attitude problems, so I can’t cry over it.

  31. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:20 pm

    Chad forgot Jay Buhner…

  32. blake January 26th, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    The Javy trade was a great idea at the time….it didn’t work out, at least not as they planned it to. Just because something doesn’t work doesn’t mean it was a bad idea…..for example, last week I had about a 40 yard pitch over a bunker….a flop shot was indicated so pulled out the 60 degree and proceeded to blade it into the woods…..good idea that didn’t work out….

  33. RS January 26th, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    At least Tabata, Vizcaino, and Kennedy are in the NL. Imagine if the Yankees had given Hughes to the Twins and then had to face him in the playoffs multiple times.

  34. blake January 26th, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    Kennedy is the guy I would most like to have back that Cashman has recently traded.

  35. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    I guess we’ll get a better idea about Tabata this season. And Austin Jackson. But if Granderson is good for the Yankees, I seriously don’t mind if this is a push. I agree with whoeve rit was (Chip?) who said at some point today (I have lost track of the threads) that Granderson’s power is better suited to Yankee Stadium, and Jackson’s skills might not have been suited to Yankee Stadium. (Chip, or whoever, I apologize if I got that somewhat bungled, but I think that’s about what you said.)

    Marte has pretty much earned his keep by being so dominant in the post season in 2009. But, frankly, he’s spent more time not pitching than pitching. And poor “X.” What can ya say? I liked Ohlendorf, but I’m not sure he would have ended up as anything but “depth” on the Yankees. So if he makes it somewhere else, I’m happy for him and (except for possibly this season) I don’t think the Yankees miss him, or Jeff Karstens (who will always have my undying admiration for trying to pitch with a broken leg), either.

    ****

    For the record, I am the one who said “it’s Cash Bash time.” Because there is a time every day when it’s a free for all against Brian Cashman. And though I know we’re all entitled to our opinions, you’ll forgive me if I just can’t take it ad nauseum. I don’t always agree with everything Cashman does, but somehow because of the extreme negative position that is often taken here, I find myself in the position of feeling like a defender.

    I could understand if the Yankees were some schlock team who couldn’t buy a win. I don’t – I seriously do not – understand what it is that people want. (Except for randy l.)

  36. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    I just heard major thunder

  37. joeman January 26th, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    Kearns & Berkman…..they were awful

  38. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 26th, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    “I think it’s one of those things that are better left unsaid.”

    Don’t get thrown by it. It’s a common take off on a popular saying.

  39. joeman January 26th, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    # mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    I just heard major thunder
    —————————————
    mick where you at

  40. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    david justice was good

  41. austinmac January 26th, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    Mick,

    I think colonel lightning is next. Then Pettitte.

  42. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:28 pm

    Mac

    I see you are coming around to my way of thinking…

  43. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:29 pm

    Funny how they have 12m left and it has Andy’s name on it…

  44. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    blake -

    I agree about Kennedy.

    ***

    Jerkface -

    I did look at that article this morning. It makes sense to me, and yet, I don’t even recall the fall. (In my defense, we were on vacation in toronto at the time, and I probably didn’t even see the fall – I got back to the hotel room at about the time Joba came out of the game. I never had a good feeling about it.)

    I think the Yankees kept hoping it would heal. Kept hoping that every time Joba went home for the winter, he’d come back stronger. I think that’s why they had him compete in 2010. Hope. And perhaps they’ve told Joba not to do too much in the off-season (as an answer to those who say he should have been in Arizona like Phil Hughes) – just heal. (Which is no excuse for being totally out of shape, but certainly could be a reason why he’s not been in great shape). I can’t wrap my head around what some people insinuate. And I think the Yankees want Joba to succeed. If it can’t be starting, well then relief. And there really is no hurry. He’s 25. If it takes him 2 more years to get there, he’s still only 27.

  45. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    Chad forgot Jay Buhner…

    He was traded long before Cashman’s time.

  46. joeman January 26th, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    http://www.intellicast.com/Local/WxMapFull.aspx….

    expecting thunder snow tonight….NY,LI,CT

  47. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    “Don’t get thrown by it. It’s a common take off on a popular saying.”

    I don’t think I have ever been in the presence of a person who actually said it.

  48. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    mick -

    We had thunder & lightning here in Central NJ.

  49. austinmac January 26th, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    Mick,

    It’s the repitition. I am overcome by it. Their was even an optimistic tweet today. We believe the optimistic ones by journalists don’t we?

  50. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    austinmac -

    Even more than the optimism, there was a dollar amount associated. ;)

  51. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    I don’t think Kennedy had the makeup for NY.
    He was a nibbler.

  52. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    Kearns bat was hot for his first 2 weeks with NYYs and Berkman started cold, got hurt and finished the season and on through the post season red hot. They worked out pretty damned well because they cost almost nothing in talent and money. The Yanks always had one or the other hot. It was hardly a disaster.

  53. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    mick –

    He was a kid. I think he would have made adjustments.

    But he may do even better in the NL.

  54. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    Kennedy reminded me of Sterling Hitchc*ck and Ted Lilly.
    Nibblers.
    Same line every game. 3 walks, 3 strikeouts.
    Give me a nibbler like Jimmy Key or Catfish.

  55. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    Doreen,

    I think the thing with the shoulder is, if it was hurt starting or because he fell or whatever, its obvious that it has affected Joba’s ‘stuff’. I still think that his stuff is fine for a starter, but maybe it will never ever be 100%. Sometimes people just don’t heal… The human body is complex. Nick Johnson broke his leg and was out for like 2 years almost. It just didn’t heal as well as another humans. Joba could be like that.

    I still wish they’d give him a shot.

  56. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    doreen-

    my position on cashman is that he could leave and the next guy or gal would do just fine . the yankees wouldn’t skip a beat.

    by the same token , cashman can stay and the yankees won’t skip a beat.

    the yankees are much bigger than any gm they have because any gm they have is handed that checking account.

    you could put jerkface in there with that checkbook and even he couldn’t screw it up :)

  57. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    joeman January 26th, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    http://www.intellicast.com/Loc…..spx….

    expecting thunder snow tonight….NY,LI,CT
    +++++++++++
    Don’t think I have ever experienced a thunder storm during a snow strorm…

  58. joeman January 26th, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    # GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    Kearns bat was hot for his first 2 weeks with NYYs and Berkman started cold, got hurt and finished the season and on through the post season red hot. They worked out pretty damned well because they cost almost nothing in talent and money. The Yanks always had one or the other hot. It was hardly a disaster.
    ———————————————————————————————————–
    you didn’t like Mark Melancon

  59. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    I don’t think I have ever been in the presence of a person who actually said it.

    Trisha is the personality type that would get wrapped up in a jihad. We’ll need them when the aliens invade.

  60. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    something is going on outside…sounds like wind

  61. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    GB7 -

    I agree. And Berkman was one of the very few bright spots in the post season.

    After Kearns’ hot streak, he not only got cold, he froze. He struck out so much. He was totally ineffective.

    But it’s always interesting to me how this blog floats. When Kearns was hot, all you read here was how Cashman should figure out a way to keep him for 2011. Snap judgment much?

    I didn’t expect much from Kearns, so when he started off so great, I was pleasantly surprised. And exactly the opposite for Berkman. And then reality set back in, roles were reversed and all was right with the world. :)

  62. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    The Yankees have another nibbler that seems to do ok….Andy Pettitte.

  63. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    I don’t think Kennedy had the makeup for NY.
    He was a nibbler.
    ++++++++++++
    Nibbler’s can be cool too

    http://www.comedycentral.com/v.....oId=343000

  64. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    randy l -

    I actually agree with you on that.

    Well, maybe except for Jerkface doing as good a job. ;)

  65. joeman January 26th, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    # BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    joeman January 26th, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    http://www.intellicast.com/Loc…..spx….

    expecting thunder snow tonight….NY,LI,CT
    +++++++++++
    Don’t think I have ever experienced a thunder storm during a snow strorm…
    ———————————————————————————————————–
    don’t really know what I’m talking about but I heard when a storm is really strong in the winter and has warm and cold air mixed in it could cause thunder snow ….

  66. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    i believe it was hurricane trisha about 10-15 years ago that had everything including sunshine and snow…or was that gloria?

  67. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    Ooops, Randy l, I missed one sentence of yours – about the checkbook.

    With that checkbook comes great responsibility to spend carefully.

    And I do believe that for the most part, Cashman has spent well.

  68. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    Andy really began to nibble more last season.
    Mussina nibbled.

  69. pat January 26th, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    We just took the dogs for a long walk before the weather got really bad and a house down the street had no snow on their driveway, front porch and walk.

    My husband informs me they have a heating system under the pavers that heats the driveway so it melts before it sticks.

    Am I the only one who didn’t know this remarkable system exists?

  70. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    I did look at that article this morning. It makes sense to me, and yet, I don’t even recall the fall. (In my defense, we were on vacation in toronto at the time, and I probably didn’t even see the fall – I got back to the hotel room at about the time Joba came out of the game. I never had a good feeling about it.)

    I think the Yankees kept hoping it would heal. Kept hoping that every time Joba went home for the winter, he’d come back stronger. I think that’s why they had him compete in 2010. Hope.
    ++++++++++++++++
    Can someone PLEASE explain to me how he could pitch in 2009 (AFTER THE INJURY) and still do so well even if he didn’t have his best stuff? Why can’t he start now even if only 80% of what he was? He showed he could be at least as good as a 5th starter.

    Are they hoping an extra year wil heal the injury? I don’t get it.

  71. joeman January 26th, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    # mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    something is going on outside…sounds like wind
    ——————————————-
    no..GB just opened his mouth

  72. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    doreen

    how did you get that bold face?
    i mean the type face not your face…

  73. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    My poor trees. Snow covered, and since late afternoon it’s been sleeting or raining or freezing rain on them. They really look like sad-sack evergreens. :(

  74. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:44 pm

    mick -

    type your thought

    then

    no space thought

    no space

  75. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    I have to hack my shrubs everytime i snows…i should say whack.
    They become overcome with snow and droop onto my front door.
    So I must whack them with the shovel to get out of the house.

  76. joeman January 26th, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    My poor trees. Snow covered, and since late afternoon it’s been sleeting or raining or freezing rain on them. They really look like sad-sack evergreens.
    ——————————————
    same problem here in CT, my beautiful evergreens…and besides that with all the snow cover the deer are eating them

  77. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    no space thought

    no space
    =========
    type the words?
    or think them?

  78. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    “I still wish they’d give him a shot.”

    i would give joba a really big shot. i’d give him the fifth starter job and tell him that it’s his unless he loses it. i’d have rothschild spend a huge amount of time with him to give joba the best chance of succeeding.

    if joba wasn’t that interested, then it would be time to go in another direction and probably trading him at that point would be best for all concerned.

  79. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 26th, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    blake, that plays into a theory that I posted earlier, in response to today’s guest post. Though there is always a temptation to think that what a player is doing someone else is what he would do in the Bronx, there of course is no way to know that will be the case. Examples abound. It doesn’t matter if it’s a newly minted player or a veteran.

  80. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    thoughtthought

  81. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    mick, that didn’t work, let me try again.

    type a less than sign: “”

    then type your thought

    then the “” to close the thought.

  82. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    Whoa, that didn’t work either.

    Less than b greater than

    thought

    less than /b greater than.

  83. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    randy

    joba is done here as a starter, i believe cash, they are done fiddling around

  84. joeman January 26th, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    # randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    “I still wish they’d give him a shot.”

    i would give joba a really big shot. i’d give him the fifth starter job and tell him that it’s his unless he loses it. i’d have rothschild spend a huge amount of time with him to give joba the best chance of succeeding.

    if joba wasn’t that interested, then it would be time to go in another direction and probably trading him at that point would be best for all concerned.
    ———————————————-
    thinking a ideal spot for him would be KC

  85. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    It’s more than just the money.

    You have to navigate thru a lot of stuff to be able to do the job in NY.

    Manage the media, the fan base, ownership, various outside factors, etc.

    It’s not an easy gig.

    There are a lot of good GM’s in the game who not only can’t do the job, they wouldn’t want to touch it.

    Cash is the kind of guy who won’t fully be appreciated until after he’s gone and you find how the new GM does navigating through all this stuff.

  86. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    joeman -

    My neighbor gets the deer, but I don’t have that problem.

    But the evergreens have never looked so “put upon.”

  87. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    doreen if you don’t know how to do it how did you do it?

  88. joeman January 26th, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    # Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    joeman -

    My neighbor gets the deer, but I don’t have that problem.

    But the evergreens have never looked so “put upon.”
    ———————————————————————————
    I spray mine but they still come around…

  89. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    man mother nature has a bad cold this winter

  90. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    Doreen, it was just like in 2009 when the Yanks picked up Hairston. He had one big moment…scoring the winning run in the WS. Everyone says keep him, and this year, he was almost a complete zero. His biggest asset is that he owns a lot of different gloves…just not that good.

    Hinske’s bat was huge, but, his defense was weak. He won a lot of games early in his time in NY. People seemed to gloss over that. He really wasn’t that good on offense or defense.

    As far as Kearns, I expected a decent glove and a mid-.250-.260 average with some power. That never happened after the first 2 weeks. I expected the same from Berkman. His defense was bad when he had to play, which surprised me. No home run power, but after his DL return, he hit a lot of bombs to left center and center that just didn’t carry far enough. Still wish he had returned.

  91. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 26th, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    “i believe it was hurricane trisha about 10-15 years ago that had everything including sunshine and snow…or was that gloria?”

    :)

    I thought that thunder thing sounded pretty weird. It’s in our forecast too.

  92. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    Randy,

    What if physically, it’s determined Joba can’t start?

    Don’t you think it’s more reasonable to assume that he can’t do it physically because of his shoulder?

    If his shoulder could handle 180-200 inning load, I have no doubt they would try him again as a starter.

    He can’t do it physically. That’s why he isn’t starting.

  93. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    if it wasn’t for the waiting all we would have is the cold and snow this winter
    first lee, then jeter,now andy, then carmelo…

  94. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    SJ44 -

    I think you are correct that there are a lot of people who wouldn’t go near the job for all the reasons you state.

    And I do believe Cashman will be missed to an extent.

    But the Yankees will go on. And even if not right away, they will find someone who will be able to do the job. In that sense, randy is correct – the Yankees are bigger than the GM. But it’s why I think they’ll look internally before they ever go outside the organization for his replacement. (Or at least someone who has had experience in a similar circumstance)

  95. pat January 26th, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    Ledger_Yankees Cashman just toasted with several people at the bar. “To finding starting pitching… eventually.”

  96. blake January 26th, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    Trisha,

    agreed

    SJ,

    yes, my guess is that GM of the NY Yankees isn’t as easy as everyone seems to think it is. Pressure cooker with the expectation of a WS every season, dealing with agents and other GM’s that are always trying to make you pay more than everyone else, trying to maintain a farm system when you’re team never gets to draft high….etc.

  97. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 7:55 pm

    I think Doreen mentioned he is still only 25 and if he reaches 27 and is healthy, he still can be effective.

    The only worry I have with that is that IF I WERE JOBA, I would bolt at 27 wehn I hit free agency and take a job somewhere as a starter. I hope he gets the chance here before he turns into another Brandon Morrow.

  98. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    Must remember to use the Bold power wisely….

  99. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    He can’t do it physically. That’s why he isn’t starting.

    Then why did they let him compete for the job in 2010?

  100. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    And why did Cashman call Joba a ‘starter in the bullpen’ in spring training 2010?

  101. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    mick -

    I know how to do it, but when I type it, everything I type disappears.

    I type “.” (which is the greater than sign) without spaces.

    Then I type what I want to be bolded.

    Then I type “.” to end the bold. without the spaces.

    I don’t know how this is going to “translate” when I submit, but I hope it’s clear now.

  102. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    Ledger_Yankees Cashman just toasted with several people at the bar. “To finding starting pitching… eventually.”
    =================
    Does anyone still think Andy is leaving that 12m to someone else?
    This could be his last chance for big bucks…
    …unless he has another good year.

  103. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    doreen i’m sorry i asked :)

  104. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    I wonder is Lou Piniella would come back as a GM. No idea what his relationship with the brothers are, though. He was hot-headed and rather caustic, but, the perfect match for GMS. Gene Michael may not have the energy to deal with that any more. The man knows talent, though.

  105. mick January 26th, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    speaking of pavano
    it’s idle time
    or idol

  106. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    So I wonder again why Colon and no interest in Deutscherer? Not that he’s any savior, but he’s a lot better than Colon at this point.

    Jerkface, that’s what I keep asking.

  107. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    Doreen,

    There is no question the team is bigger than the GM.

    My point is, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

    The organization is is very good shape right now, despite the daily whining of some on here.

    In sports, successful franchises don’t make change for the sake of change.

    You look tomkeep good people in your organization as long as you can.

    When George changed people around like musical chairs in the 80′s, all that did was lead the franchise into the toilet.

    Right now, it’s a playoff caliber team, with a Top 5 farm system, that is perhaps Andy Pettitte reurning away from being the favorites, or co-favorites, to go to the WS.

    Things are actually quite good in Yankeeland these days.

  108. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    mick-

    I give up.

    does someone else know how to explain it and have it translate once it submits?????

    Less than letter b greater than sentence less than letter b backslack greater than.

    I can’t use the symbols in the explanation.

  109. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    Next GM is probably Mark Newman or Damon Oppenheimer

  110. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    Jerkface, good point again.

  111. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    “Cash is the kind of guy who won’t fully be appreciated until after he’s gone and you find how the new GM does navigating through all this stuff.”

    sj44-

    the yankees don’t make the playoffs one year and the yankee gm gets to spend 400 million to make sure it doesn’t happen two years in a row.

    i just don’t see that being that difficult a job.

  112. blake January 26th, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    Maybe the Yankees left the starter label on Joba as long as they could in case a trade developed….

  113. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    Jerk face,

    Because they thought a winter of rest would bring his shoulder back to the point where he could start for them.

    When that didn’t happen, they decided he is best suited for the bullpen.

    I don’t think it’s foo complicated to figure out.

    They don’t feel he can physically hold up as a starter.

  114. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    Bold

    you have to type the bold code before and after your text

    Before the text “” with no spaces between letters
    After text “” with no spaces between letters

  115. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    Wow, that so did NOT translate

  116. SAS January 26th, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    Deer eat our stuff all winter although I have a fence put up which helps with the azaleas and rhodis.

    —————————————————————————–

    Doreen “.”I love the bold stuff-.-

  117. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    http://www.tizag.com/htmlT/htmlbold.php

  118. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    Because they thought a winter of rest would bring his shoulder back to the point where he could start for them.

    When that didn’t happen, they decided he is best suited for the bullpen.

    That doesn’t answer why Cashman called Joba a ‘starter in the bullpen’ going in to the 2010 regular season. And seeing as how Joba started in 09… and was just fine, and was given the shot in 2010 and nothing about pitching in the bullpen in 2010 suggests he could not start.

    It doesn’t add up.

  119. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    Nick in SF January 26th, 2011 at 7:05 pm
    Colon is a bit tubby, true, but I think he knows that.

    ////
    Colon looks like he should be working alongside Zampano & Gelsomina.

  120. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    “Next GM is probably Mark Newman or Damon Oppenheimer”

    i don’t thinks so. too old.

    i’d like to see someone young who no one has heard of.

  121. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    Like why would his shoulder have to get to a point where he could start, he started in 2009 the year before!

  122. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    SJ44 -

    The Yankee organization has been very stable. I guess it’s dating back to George’s last “hiatus?”

    Cashman has been with the organization his entire adult life.

    Torre stayed on as manager for what amounts to forever compared to his predecessors in the George era.

    And even Girardi signed a new contract after this first 3 years.

    And I have no idea about the depths of the organization.

    I like the stability and the sense of continuity.

    ***

    GB7 -

    Someone posted pictures from that Baseball Writers dinner the other night and Lou was there, and I had the same thought about both him and, gasp, Joe Torre. I think Torre is too old (in the sense that he’s been there done that) and too worn out to be a good GM; I don’t know about Piniella. But if Cashman stays on, I don’t think Piniella will be in the mix next time. It’ll be someone younger, I believe.

    Wasn’t Tino supposedly involved in front office somehow?

  123. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    You can also do BOLD WITH ITALICS once you master bold

  124. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    BoJo -

    See?????

    It’s not me!

    LOL

  125. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    I also read the article. But how long does it take for such an injury to heal? Are we to believe that Joba will never recover from it, especially when his velocity improved so much at the end of last year?

    And why can’t he start even with the injury? He pitched well enough to be a 5th starter in 2009–the year following hte injury. Until August 8th or so, he was having a very good year.

    ////
    all appropriate questions.the problem is,guys like michael kay are too stupid to follow up properly & ask them.

  126. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    Randy,

    The Yankees look to sign free agents every year.

    You know there is more to the job than that.

    He traded for Swisher, had a bunch of in house guys (Hughes, Joba and Robertson for example) help win a WS.

    It’s more than signing free agents and you know that.

  127. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    So then it was a real competition between Phil and Joba………as I thought. I never bought into the idea that the whole thing was rigged. Then again, if they thought Joba couldn’t hold up as a starter, why did they bother taking the decision to nearly the last week or so of ST?

  128. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    bold italics?

  129. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 8:07 pm

    Bojo -

    Wow, thanks!!!!

  130. SAS January 26th, 2011 at 8:07 pm

    Doreen,

    That didn’t work…lol

    —————————————————-

    By the way, in case you all missed it, I said my peace about Cashman in the last thread, and then of course, as always with me, there was a new thread so if anyone is interested in my opinion, it is in the last thread.

  131. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    “Next GM is probably Mark Newman or Damon Oppenheimer”

    i don’t thinks so. too old.

    i’d like to see someone young who no one has heard of.
    +++++++++++++
    Not sure why age is a big deal…some great GMs were old…

    But if you are looking for a young new name, how about the head of scouting Billy Eppier or the batboy?

  132. SAS January 26th, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    Doreen,

    I am jealous of your talent.

  133. blake January 26th, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    Why would the Yankees tell the rest of the baseball world last year that Joba couldn’t start….even if they had made the determination that he couldn’t, it would keep his trade value higher if at least some other teams thought that maybe he could.

    If the Yankees aren’t considering it this year with 2 rotation spots open then its pretty obvious that they don’t think he can do it….but a year ago they may have still thought they could trade him at starter value.

  134. Pat M. January 26th, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    Cashman was groomed for the Yankee GM position as he cut his baseball teeth in the organization…..He was the most qualified for the job and in many ways still the only one who still is as far as hiring someone from outside the organizational family……I would think there has to be some in house candidates who understand the Yankee complex way of running the shop…..

  135. Tom in N.J. January 26th, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    Can you underline?

  136. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    A pleasure Doreen

  137. David in Cal January 26th, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    The numbers say that the Granderson trade was a big loser for the Yanks.

    WAR in 2010: Granderson 3.6; Austin Jackson 3.8; Phil Coke 1.1; Ian Kennedy 2.4. Jackson, Coke, and Kennedy combined had 7.3 WAR — more than double the WAR of Granderson.

    We all hope Granderson will improve. However, Coke, IPK and Jackson are at the beginning of their careers, so they’re more likely to improve than Granderson.

    Also the total cost of Jackson, Coke and Kennedy was less than what Granderson made.

  138. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 8:10 pm

    Can you underline?

    NO!

  139. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    SAS–

    I posted the link to the codes above

    Here it is again

    http://www.tizag.com/htmlT/htmlbold.php

    Look to the symbols surrounding b for bold…use i instead of b for italics

  140. blake January 26th, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    I don’t think the starter competition was rigged…I think Hughes was the front runner but had Joba came in to ST throwing 98 and mowing people down then maybe it would have worked out differently….same thing with Martin and Montero I imagine. It’s Martin’s job to lose but my guess is that they’ll give Montero the opportunity to take the job away from him if he can.

  141. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    I just think they needed to see the fall-out for Joba – the results from pitching as a starter in spring training on a starter’s schedule.

    As for “starter in the bullpen,” well, maybe one of those times when they don’t want to say? The Yankees aren’t always candid and forthcoming (today’s commentary notwithstanding).

    Or, maybe some obscure reference to his repertoire – a guy who has a starter’s make-up and repertoire who will pitch out of the bullpen.

    Just throwing some possibilities out there.

  142. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    SAS -

    Don’t be!

    I can bold and I can italicize. I can smile and laugh.

    But I can’t do angry.

    Oh, i can’ also do “oops.” :oops:

    And I can only do an eye roll on good days. :roll: ?

  143. West Coast Yankee Fan January 26th, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    Then why did they let him compete for the job in 2010? And why did Cashman call Joba a ‘starter in the bullpen’ in spring training 2010?

    *******************

    How do we know “when” Yankee medical personnel and management made the determination that Joba was physically not able to start? It might very well have been during the 2010 season.

  144. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    That’s an apples to oranges comparison though.

    Pitching in the NL West os decidedly different than pitching in the AL East, and AL in general.

    Jackson is a CF with little power. The Yankees have one of those guys in Gardner.

    Phil Coke? Nothing special.

    They didn’t have anybody in the organization with Granderson’s skillet.

    For the Yankees, the trade made sense, short term and long term.

  145. pat January 26th, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    GB

    It’s been said that Lou was George’s 3rd son and the boys think of him that way.

    I get the feeling GM is more of a fulltime job than Pinella is looking for right now.

  146. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    Underline Why would ANYONE want to do that?!?

  147. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    Blake, I always viewed Joba and Phil as having equal chances……….I never bought into the idea that the Yankees wanted Phil in particular to win it.

  148. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    Doreen, wasn’t Martinez trying to learn all of the business aspects from TV/Radio work and other front office stuff? Never heard anything of him actually working with Cashman, though. Maybe they offer the job to Jean Afterman or bring Ng back.

  149. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    Hmmm—underline tag doesn’t seem to work

  150. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    “What if physically, it’s determined Joba can’t start?”

    sj44-

    that would be like what happened with papelbon. i’d have no problem with that is it’s the case. if that were the case though i don’t understand the tone and edge in cashman’s words when talking about joba.

    calling his stuff “pedestrian” just seems like a putdown. if cashman really thought it was no fault of joba’s i don’ think we’d hear the edge in his words.

    i think he’s trying to light a fire under joba rather than giving a young guy support who has had an injury. i don’t see cashman being behind joba. that’s what rubs me the wrong way with this whole situation.

  151. Bronx Jeers January 26th, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    The BOLD and the beautiful

  152. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    “skillset”. Sorry for the typo.

  153. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    “i just don’t see that being that difficult a job.”

    randy

    It may be the hardest job in MLB for two reasons:

    1) Expectations. The season is considered to be a failure by many (sadly) unless they get to the ALCS, if not the WS.

    2) Contradictory goads: They have to try to win the WS every single year (a fool’s errand) while trying to develop from within.

    Until you stop having a co-owner like Hank saying they better bleepin’ win, when in fact this should probably be a year to reload, it’s going to be very tough to actually build a team the right way.

  154. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    blake January 26th, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    I don’t think the starter competition was rigged…I think Hughes was the front runner but had Joba came in to ST throwing 98 and mowing people down then maybe it would have worked out differently…
    ++++++++++++++
    But why did he need to throw 98 when he was winning at 92 in 2009?

  155. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    Blake, I don’t agree about Montero and Martin. I think Montero has a chance to win a job in ST, but he’s not taking Martin’s job away from him even if Martin has a bad ST. Remember Thames had an awful ST and a very good season – you just can’t extrapolate results from ST into the regular season.

  156. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    goadd = goals

  157. SAS January 26th, 2011 at 8:17 pm
  158. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    Bojo, he wasn’t pitching that well in 2009. He didn’t have a bad year, but he wasn’t great. As we once discussed here, maybe Joba is a guy that NEEDS to have his full velocity in order to be successful.

  159. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    [img]http://www.mazeguy.net/happy/applause.gif[/img]

  160. David in Cal January 26th, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    They didn’t have anybody in the organization with Granderson’s skillet.

    ————————————————————————-
    I didn’t mean to pan Granderson.

  161. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    Randy,

    EVERYBODY wants to light a fire under Joba.

    Organization wide, there is a feeling Joba fell into the “too much, too soon” trap and took his role for granted.

    Do you think it’s a coincidence he pitched better after he got demoted last year?

    I think they believe they need to challenge him.

    Personally, I hope he comes into ST with a chip on his shoulder and he pitches lights out.

    We have all seen his stubbornness on the mound.

    I’m hoping he can reverse his trend and get back to pitching the way he’s capable of pitching, regardless of his role.

    If he does, he makes the Yankees a better team.

  162. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    Trisha is the personality type that would get wrapped up in a jihad. We’ll need them when the aliens invade.

    ///
    according to those in the know,the ‘aliens’ come & go & have no interest in dominating us,unless we behave stupidly & threaten them, then that would piss them off.

  163. West Coast Yankee Fan January 26th, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    Since Cashman and Girardi have now said clearly that Martin will be the starter if healthy, I wonder what they will do if Martin has a terrible spring training and Montero looks like Ted Willams at the plate. I suppose that will be a good problem to have.

  164. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    pat, I knew about GMS’s fondness for Piniella. I guess he saw “middle linebacker” in pinstripes with Piniella. Never knew how the sons/daughters felt about him, though. I know that he left Chicago early because of his mother’s health. Haven’t heard more on that. Is it really possible that Sweet Lou is 67 years old?

  165. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    Joba was considerably better as a starter in 2009 than AJ was in 2010. The same is true of Vazquez.

  166. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    “skillset”. Sorry for the ty
    +++++++++++
    Don’t EVER do that again.

  167. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    Joba was considerably better as a starter in 2009 than AJ was in 2010. The same is true of Vazquez.

    Also younger and with more upside.

  168. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    Can someone PLEASE explain to me how he could pitch in 2009 (AFTER THE INJURY) and still do so well even if he didn’t have his best stuff? Why can’t he start now even if only 80% of what he was? He showed he could be at least as good as a 5th starter.

    Are they hoping an extra year wil heal the injury? I don’t get it.

    ////
    I’ll tell you who CAN’T explain it to you Bojo,Brian Cashman can’t explain it.I guess Joba’s just too, y’know, pedestrian.

  169. SAS January 26th, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    Thanks Bojo

  170. MaineYankee January 26th, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    Doreen

    Try this. :mad:

    Or this, :evil:

    SAS

    Put your cursor on the one you want to try and it will show you how to do it. :lol:

  171. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    Bojo, he wasn’t pitching that well in 2009. He didn’t have a bad year, but he wasn’t great. As we once discussed here, maybe Joba is a guy that NEEDS to have his full velocity in order to be successful.
    ++++++++++
    He was plenty fine IMO for a #5 starter.

  172. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    “But if you are looking for a young new name, how about the head of scouting Billy Eppier or the batboy?”

    i liked what i read about eppler until he started acting like a know it all with joba. i don’t see eppler’s pitching/coaching background being there storng enough too make that determination.

    i do think the yankee gm job is a high energy job, so i think a thirty something would do just fine.
    cashman is actually a little long in the tooth for the job at this point. he’s getting kinda cranky in his old age.

  173. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    WC, the Yankees and every other ML team have to have more foresight than to commit to a guy (Martin) and then just change course based on a few weeks of ST.

  174. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 8:15 pm
    “skillset”. Sorry for the typo

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    “skillet” is more in keeping with this board and the topic. Granderson trade is still a hot topic. He needs to hit like his last two months or he’s “cooked?.

  175. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    Rich in NJ January 26th, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    “i just don’t see that being that difficult a job.”

    randy

    It may be the hardest job in MLB for two reasons:

    1) Expectations. The season is considered to be a failure by many (sadly) unless they get to the ALCS, if not the WS.

    2) Contradictory goads: They have to try to win the WS every single year (a fool’s errand) while trying to develop from within.

    Until you stop having a co-owner like Hank saying they better bleepin’ win, when in fact this should probably be a year to reload, it’s going to be very tough to actually build a team the right way.
    ++++++++++++++++
    The solution is simple

    Androids

    And yes, I blame Cashman directly for not bing on top of this.
    ;-)”

  176. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    GB,

    Hal and Hank LOVE Lou.

    He has an open invitation to come back to the organization if he chooses.

    Lou doesn’t want to work full-time anymore so, a GM’s job is not something he wants to do.

    Consulting? Certainly a possibility down the line.

  177. blake January 26th, 2011 at 8:26 pm

    Bojo,

    Because the Yankees had one spot and they didn’t want to hold Hughes back any longer….it was time.

    Betsy,

    I want Martin to do well and really hope he does….I like the signing a lot, but he’s coming off a hip injury and really hasn’t been good in 2 years. I know they are saying he’s the starter and chances are he will be, but if Montero is ready and was to clearly outplay him this spring then I just don’t see them holding him back.

  178. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:26 pm

    ” I wonder what they will do if Martin has a terrible spring training and Montero looks like Ted Willams at the plate”
    +++++++++++++++
    Before or after they cut his head off?

  179. DaSaint007 January 26th, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    Hey Doreen, I’m going to try this…

    Hello

  180. JoeyA January 26th, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    Gardner, one of Banuelos or Bettances, Romine, & PTBNL for Carmona & Sizemore.

    Gardy is cheaper version of Size, exactly what Cleveland needs & the other 3 are ample return for Carmona.

    I would even consider putting Joba as the 4th.

    Am I way off what Size and Carmona should command?

  181. Bronx Jeers January 26th, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    I always viewed Piniella as a Yankee that just happened to be wearing another team’s uniform.

  182. mick January 26th, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    Granderson’s skillet.

    ================
    Grandy opened a restaurant?

  183. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    MaineYankee January 26th, 2011 at 8:23 pm
    Doreen

    Try this.

    Or this,

    SAS

    Put your cursor on the one you want to try and it will show you how to do it.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    If somebody could figure out how to make an icon of an old jackass like Charlie O. the mule, we could use that instead of typing “Randy. Unless they just put up Randy’s picture when talking about old geezers.

  184. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    Blake, the problem with that theory is that by putting Joba in the pen, they’d be setting him back. They could have sent Phil down to AAA so he could start………that is, if they were thinking long term.

  185. West Coast Yankee Fan January 26th, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    Betsy, it’s more like a month and a half not two weeks but what if Montero is just way better?

  186. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    Randy, you asked about scouts re: old players.

    According to the book in the 80s all the older scouts were former players who busted out of ball either before making the pros or having only a pedestrian career. the new scouts that started coming up in the 70s and 80s were guys who only ever played in college or not at all, college educated looking to break into baseball . Start at scouting end up in a front office.

    Not one scout mentioned in the book was ever a star or great player. The consensus was that players who were good made too much money to want to scout. And as free agency was introduced, it became LESS likely for former players to move into scouting because the salaries were just so tiny compared to their game salaries.

    I think the closest you’ll get are minor leaguers who bust out.

    Are you suggesting the Gm of the Yankees have to come from a pitching background?

  187. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    I never loved Lou as manager because I’m uncomfortable with tempermental managers, but I would love to see him back in pinstripes in some capacity…..

  188. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    “EVERYBODY wants to light a fire under Joba.

    Organization wide, there is a feeling Joba fell into the “too much, too soon” trap and took his role for granted.”

    sj44-

    then i have no problem with taking this approach. it’s what i figured when i first saw what cashman said.

    i’d lust like them to light a fire under him as a starter considering the fact they are actually kicking the tires on barstool colon.

    ( i didn’t write “barstool”, my spellcheck did. maybe it knows something we don’t) :)

  189. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    WC, nope – IMO, the Yankees liked Martin enough to commit to him. I don’t believe in giving up on someone based on a bad ST. As long as he shows he’s healthy, Martin’s the guy I want and think will be starting.

  190. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    Thanks, SJ. As I said, I never knew how the Steinbrenner kids felt about Piniella. He would make a great talent evaluator. He’s always seemed to be a Gene Michael student.

  191. West Coast Yankee Fan January 26th, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    Betsy, so if Montero performs as advertised, you would intentionally start an inferior player?

  192. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:06 pm
    So then it was a real competition between Phil and Joba………as I thought. I never bought into the idea that the whole thing was rigged. Then again, if they thought Joba couldn’t hold up as a starter, why did they bother taking the decision to nearly the last week or so of ST?

    ////

    How do you come to that?

  193. Pat M. January 26th, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    blake…..It was Hughes rotation spot to lose last spring especially after his 09 stint in the bullpen…..The trade for Javy Vasquez just about doomed Joba’s days in the rotation…..

  194. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    JoeyA January 26th, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    Gardner, one of Banuelos or Bettances, Romine, & PTBNL for Carmona & Sizemore.

    Gardy is cheaper version of Size, exactly what Cleveland needs & the other 3 are ample return for Carmona.

    I would even consider putting Joba as the 4th.

    Am I way off what Size and Carmona should command?
    +++++++++++++
    So let me see if I understand this.

    You are getting an injured OFer who hasn’t shown that he is able to play at old level, plus a #3 starter who is not the type of power pitcher the Yankees love for play-offs, and giving up a 4+ WAR Gold Golve-level OFer, a top of rotation prospect, a catcher (whom they may not need) and Joba?

    Ok, I think we can take your name off list of possible Cashman replacements.

  195. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    “EVERYBODY wants to light a fire under Joba.

    ///
    for what? Being a reliever?How inspiring.

  196. Pat M. January 26th, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    Just another uninformed irrational unintelligent deduction….

  197. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    WC, come on give me a break. Just because maybe Montero would tear it up in ST and Martin struggle doesn’t mean the former is better. I give the job to the guy who the Yankees liked well enough to commit to. That’s it. I don’t believe that you judge players (maybe kids) off of ST, good or bad.

  198. MaineYankee January 26th, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    GB7

    I thought it was funny when randy was talking about Cashman being long in the tooth and cranky.

    I thought he was talking about himself. :lol:

  199. blake January 26th, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    Betsy,

    Hughes would have gotten nothing out of mowing down AAA hitters.

  200. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    J Alfred, how did I come to what?

  201. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    They didn’t pay Russell Martin 4 million guaranteed dollars to “compete” for a job.

    If healthy, he’s the starting catcher, regardless of his ST numbers.

  202. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    If Austin Jackson were still a Yankee,people here would be gushing over him.He may strike out a lot,but there’s a kid who can hit & who is goin to hit.He’s a tremendous defensive CF also,& is what, 22 yrs old?I would welcome Austin Jackson on the yankees right now,& he is just goin to get better.

  203. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    Blake, I just don’t agree. I’ll stand behind Randy on this – there’s lots of things young pitchers can learn in the minors besides dominating overmatched hitters………..Besides, this way the Yankees could have had both Joba and Phil starting. Taking Joba out of the rotation when he didn’t pitch that badly just seems kind of silly………certainly silly because he’s a kid.

  204. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:40 pm
    J Alfred, how did I come to what?
    ///
    sorry, how did you come to conclude the competition was real?I certainly don’t see it that way,it seemed pre-determined all the way.Just curious what led you to think otherwise.

  205. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    I like Martin as C for his glove…I like Montero for eventual DH for his bat.

    I would love to have both break camp and Montero share time with Posada at Dh and backup…

    I would like to give Martin until July to see what his bat and glove give us. If he is the GG catcher (ahead of Molina brothers in NL) that he was, I want him there for a long time.

  206. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    ” The consensus was that players who were good made too much money to want to scout”

    jerkface-

    i think that’s true. it’s very hard to get any star player into coaching or even managing for the same reason.

    i’d like to see the new yankee gm be really good with acquiring and developing pitching simply because it’s less of a risk to develop or sign an offensive player than it is with a pitcher. very seldom do you see an offensive player ruined on one pitch the way you do with pitchers.

    if you notice i don’t talk much about the yankees offense because it’s almost always loaded. if there’s a gap it’s fairly easy to fill. pitching is a different matter. when something goes wrong it’s much harder to fix it.

  207. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    “EVERYBODY wants to light a fire under Joba.

    ///
    for what? Being a reliever?How inspiring.
    ++++++++++++++
    Maybe they are confusing him with Jose Feliciano.

  208. yankeefeminista January 26th, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 8:40 pm
    If Austin Jackson were still a Yankee,people here would be gushing over him.He may strike out a lot,but there’s a kid who can hit & who is goin to hit.He’s a tremendous defensive CF also,& is what, 22 yrs old?I would welcome Austin Jackson on the yankees right now,& he is just goin to get better.
    ___________________
    QFT. Austin Jackson’s line drive rates are 24% (27% vs. righties). Brett’s are 18.6%. Jackson actually can hit, and he may still develop some power. Jackson is also a superior center fielder to Gardner.

  209. West Coast Yankee Fan January 26th, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    Betsy it’s an honest question. Believe me, if Martin stinks it up and Montero is lights out, things will change quickly. There was no reason for anyone to commit to Martin IMO. He was injured and had a poor year. I think you play those who you think give you the best chance to win. Montero has put in his time in the minor leagues.

  210. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2011 at 8:45 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock

    Yes, but the issues with AJack have always been whether or not he can hit for power, and if not, his inability to control the strike zone will become an increasingly more worrisome issue (in terms of his ultimate ceiling).

  211. blake January 26th, 2011 at 8:45 pm

    Pat M,

    Yea I agree…..the Vasquez signing pretty much showed that the Yanks had lost most all confidence that Joba could start…..its becoming more evident that that was due to physical concerns…..which makes it more understandable.

  212. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    If Austin Jackson were still a Yankee,people here would be gushing over him.He may strike out a lot,but there’s a kid who can hit & who is goin to hit.He’s a tremendous defensive CF also,& is what, 22 yrs old?I would welcome Austin Jackson on the yankees right now,& he is just goin to get better.
    ++++++++++++
    For perhaps the first time, I am not sure I agree with you.

    AJax never had a great arm to be a truly outstanding CFer. Most reports had him needing to shift to LF in Yankees OF…which also didn’t suit him because of lack of pawer.

    Getting a power bat in Grandy in CF was a zombie move (no brainer).

  213. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    Pitching is tough to find industry wide.

    Nobody really has a “lock” or secret for acquiring or developing pitching. That’s always elusive in the game.

    The Braves probably come the closest to anybody and even they have had a gap, which is beginning to close again, in recent years.

    Phil Highes wasn’t going to begin last season in the minors.

    He won 18 games and made the all star team. Clearly, they made the correct decision with him.

  214. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    J Alfred, I never had any proof that the competition between Joba and Phil was anything but real……

  215. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    MaineYankee January 26th, 2011 at 8:39 pm
    GB7

    I thought it was funny when randy was talking about Cashman being long in the tooth and cranky.

    I thought he was talking about himself.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Oh, come on, Maine. If he mentioned anything about anybody and teeth, you know he wasn’t talking about himself.

  216. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    WC, we’ll just have to disagree. I don’t see any way Montero starts………and if the Yankees had questions about Martin, they wouldn’t have paid him this much money. It’s a 2 year deal I believe, not even 1 with an option.

  217. blake January 26th, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    SJ,

    I don’t think Martin is competing for his job but I would say that he probably understands that he needs to show that he’s healthy and can handle it….he’s said as much since he signed. My biggest thing is that if Montero shows in ST that’s he’s ready, I hope they bring him north.

  218. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    SJ, that’s fine, but are you saying the Yankees chose to develop Phil over Joba as a starter? That’s in essence what they were doing because putting Joba back in the pen was going to hinder his development.

  219. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    QFT. Austin Jackson’s line drive rates are 24% (27% vs. righties). Brett’s are 18.6%. Jackson actually can hit, and he may still develop some power. Jackson is also a superior center fielder to Gardner.

    ///

    Wow Yankfem – It always strikes me watching him hit how quick his bat is and how he always seems to get good wood on it,but that LD rate against righties is crazy good.Agree that AJax is a natural hitter & Gardner,though great at working counts and getting on base,is limited as a hitter.yea I agree on the defense,too.It’s too bad they parted with him.

    & good point that LD rates indicate there may be power coming.

  220. Pat M. January 26th, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    SJ……Especially after the dominance that was 2009……I’ll pass on any further comments about the 24 yearold out of Foothill HS

  221. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    “Nobody really has a “lock” or secret for acquiring or developing pitching. That’s always elusive in the game.”

    the problem is the longterm contracts. the yankees and the red sox are both are stuck with really bad contracts in bucket and burnett. it’s a dilemma because if you don’t give a log term contract , you’re not going to get the guy. if you give it chances are you’re going to be stuck with a very bad pitcher at some point.

    it can happen with an offensive player too with long term contracts, but offensive players aren’t total disasters with the frequency pitchers are.

  222. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    Does anyone have a link to where the smiley codes are located for LOHUD?

  223. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    The only way that Montero starts the season as the Yankees frontline catcher is if Martin and Posada are hurt and can’t go. Unlike many on here and in the know-it-all media spout, Montero’s defensive abilities are a lot better than stated. NYY hasn’t handed the front line catcher’s job to anyone since Munson, and before that, Berra.

  224. blake January 26th, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    Im in danger of violating my Joba oath ……I need to stop.

  225. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    Blake,

    If you look at the Yankees history at how they break in catchers, they never throw a young guy in there out of the gate.

    There is always a veteran caddy.

    They traded Mike Stanley because they felt Girardi would be a better caddy to break in Posada slowly, which they did.

    I’d say, regardless of what Momtero does in the Spring, there is a zero % chance he starts.

    Even if Martin doesn’t hit, he’s a huge upgrade defensively frommwhat they had there last year.

    I think they are going to break in Montero very slowly, if past history is any indicator.

  226. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    Gardner is a better Centerfielder than Jackson, but both are good in my opinion.

  227. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    for the record, i like martin and i like montero.

    the yankees have done a good job the way they are doing this.

  228. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    They aren’t “hindering” Joba’s development. He’s a relief pitcher in their eyes now.

    That’s it. End of story.

    He’s not starting, nor do the Yankees believe he can be an effective starter.

    Ifmfolks wants to disagree with that assessment, they are welcome to.

    They didn’t choose one or the other.

    If the Yankees felt Joba could be an effective starting pitcher, he would still be starting.

    It ain’t that complicated.

  229. Pat M. January 26th, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    SJ & GB….On the same wave lenght…..Old guys also

  230. yankeefeminista January 26th, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 8:56 pm
    Gardner is a better Centerfielder than Jackson, but both are good in my opinion.
    _________
    I agree that both are good; however, Jackson is better, especially going back on the ball. He has unbelievable speed and extension. Gardner lacks Jackson’s athleticism and reach.

  231. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    Ok, well I won’t kill them for their decision just as I never blamed them for “ruining” Joba………..but it still seems kind of odd that they determined after one season that he was purely a reliever.

  232. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    I love the kid catcher as caddy as well – now let’s hope it works out for the Yankees. I believe the Yankees want Montero to make the team, so yes I hope he hits the tar out of the ball in ST (and also shows that he an be a catcher, to prove everyone of the so-called experts wrong_

  233. tyanksfan36 January 26th, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    If you’re the praying type, please take a moment to pray for one of my dear friends whose brother lost his battle with cystic fibrosis tonight. It has been a long 2 months for her and though her brother is no longer suffering, she now is worse than before because he is gone. Thanks.

  234. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    Test

    :mrgreen: mrgreen
    :neutral: neutral
    :twisted: twisted
    :shock: shock
    :smile: smile
    :???: ???
    :cool: cool

  235. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    Oh! found something here

  236. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    How does Gardner have “less athleticism” than Jackson.

    He’s quicker, and faster than Jackson. He also has a more athletic throwing arm.

    All athletic maneuvers and Gardner bests Jackson in those areas.

  237. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    Pat M. January 26th, 2011 at 9:01 pm
    SJ & GB….On the same wave lenght…..Old guys also

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Pat, I suspect that you’d have to count SJ’s rings to calculate his age. I’m guessing that only Randy is older….but, then, Randy is older that dirt.

  238. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    Blake, lol.

    On another note, I really think Jeter will have a big year next year. I just don’t feel that he’s done by any means. He may have to adjust (as he did last year) to the fact that father time waits for no one, but he can do it – he’s too good and too smart a hitter. He’s extremely prideful – I think him showing up to work with Long this early is a very good sign.

  239. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 9:06 pm

    Bojo, I love those smileys, but I love smiley’s in general. Some other sites have a fantastic range of smileys….they just make me laugh, even the crying smileys.

    This is my favorite:

    :mad:

    I just get a kick out of it

  240. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    Tyanksfan, I’m so sorry for your friend’s brother – my condolences. CF is a brutal disease. My cousin died of it in 1970 something – she actually lived a long life for that time (she was in her 20′s).

  241. blake January 26th, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    SJ,

    Yea I don’t necessarily mean that he starts……I do think Martin has the job if he’s healthy enough but I think there is some uncertainty there. Are you thinking Montero gets most of the season at Scranton? If its clear that he’s ready then what do they do with him?

  242. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    Meant to saY Gardner had a more “accurate”, not “athletic” throwing arm.

  243. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    I agree that both are good; however, Jackson is better, especially going back on the ball. He has unbelievable speed and extension. Gardner lacks Jackson’s athleticism and reach.

    Gardner goes better laterally and comes in better. In Centerfield Jackson got a 7.0 range factor last year, in 09 when gardner spent the majority of time in CF he had a 7.3. And I like Gardner’s arm more than Jacksons. Gardner has that good accurate release, like Matsui, gets the ball out quick and its on target almost every time. Thats how he gets his assists.

  244. West Coast Yankee Fan January 26th, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    I can’t imagine Montero starting every game, but in light of the fact that Posada is the DH, I also can’t see Montero sitting on the bench all year if he tears it up from the get go. It is a good problem to have.

  245. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    Coming up on MLB-TV….a Lou Piniella ejection. I have no idea how they could choose just one. He has enough for a one year run on TV and then, sell them into rerun. TV-Land meets Lou Piniella.

  246. blake January 26th, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    Gardner also doesn’t strike out like crazy either.

  247. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 9:06 pm

    Bojo, I love those smileys, but I love smiley’s in general. Some other sites have a fantastic range of smileys….they just make me laugh, even the crying smileys.
    +++++++++++++
    For you

    http://forums.taleworlds.com/i.....ea=smileys

  248. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    Blake,

    I think he will start the year in Scranton, so he can play everyday, and then see how it goes.

    I like Randy’s idea of not calling him up until the weather gets warmer, if they deem him ready to play.

    Here’s the thing. He has to play.

    If you have him in NY, he can’t just sit on the bench. That doesn’t help him get better.

    It’s why I think he will begin the year in Scranton and they will go from there.

  249. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    And for all of Jackson’s line drive rate he only made 79% contact. 10% swinging strikes.

    Gardner is at 90% and 3%

  250. yankeefeminista January 26th, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
    How does Gardner have “less athleticism” than Jackson.

    He’s quicker, and faster than Jackson. He also has a more athletic throwing arm.

    All athletic maneuvers and Gardner bests Jackson in those areas.
    _________
    I don’t agree at all. Gardner lacks the physical skillset of Jackson. He has speed, but he is in no way as athletic. I agree that Jackson doesn’t have much of an arm. Gardner’s is average but usually fairly accurate. Both are obviously plus (or plus plus) defenders.

  251. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    tyanksfan36 January 26th, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    If you’re the praying type, please take a moment to pray for one of my dear friends whose brother lost his battle with cystic fibrosis tonight. It has been a long 2 months for her and though her brother is no longer suffering, she now is worse than before because he is gone. Thanks.
    ++++++++++++
    Done.

  252. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    For perhaps the first time, I am not sure I agree with you.

    AJax never had a great arm to be a truly outstanding CFer. Most reports had him needing to shift to LF in Yankees OF…which also didn’t suit him because of lack of pawer.

    Getting a power bat in Grandy in CF was a zombie move (no brainer).
    ///

    Got to disagree with this.AJax doesn’t have a great arm,that’s true,but he is one pretty special center fielder.I’ve seen that kid make plays that have wowed me,as well as the classically good over the shoulder running grab.I like this kid & I do think he will become a much better player from what I’ve seen,& I wasn’t even aware of the line drive rates althoughhe does square the ball up very well so not so surprising. I am a fan of Granderson too & have really enjoyed his defensive showing,as he was discredited as a CF when we got him & proved that evaluation wrong.

  253. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    Bojo, lol thanks! I love the surprised one…..I have a stuffed happy face (as I call the smiley’s) on my desk at work; he’s so cute. One of my coworkers drew evil eyebrows on him though so I have to keep a piece of paper taped over them in order for him to look his happy self.

  254. Carl January 26th, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    He’s more athletic because he’s black duh.

  255. tyanksfan36 January 26th, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    Betsy

    Thanks, he was in his 30s and was apparently doing really well all things considered until he needed and received a kidney transplant and then things just went downhill and he couldn’t get better. She was lucky enough to get up there to be with him before he passed though.

  256. yankeefeminista January 26th, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 9:14 pm
    And for all of Jackson’s line drive rate he only made 79% contact. 10% swinging strikes.

    Gardner is at 90% and 3%
    ______
    Thus the K’s. Gardner clearly has the better plate coverage and OBP. However, Jackson’s LD rates are impressive. He is still very raw, so it will be interesting to see how he develops going forward.

  257. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    yankeefeminista January 26th, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    I don’t agree at all. Gardner lacks the physical skillset of Jackson. He has speed, but he is in no way as athletic. I agree that Jackson doesn’t have much of an arm. Gardner’s is average but usually fairly accurate. Both are obviously plus (or plus plus) defenders.
    ++++++++++
    The lack of arm is why the Yankees only saw him as a LFer, and his lack of power in LF is why they traded him.

  258. blake January 26th, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    SJ,

    Oh I agree there…..he needs to play wherever he is.

  259. SAS January 26th, 2011 at 9:17 pm

    Bojo,

    Those are good if I can remember them :lol:

  260. Pat M. January 26th, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    GB…..I think you’d be surprised in the youthfulness of SJ, I know I was ……Lot’s of good energy and good vibes…..

  261. SAS January 26th, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    Bojo,

    That was my first emoticon…thanks.

  262. Joe from Long Island January 26th, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    tyanksfan36 – my sympathies. A tragic loss for your friend.

  263. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    yankeefeminista January 26th, 2011 at 9:01 pm
    Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 8:56 pm
    Gardner is a better Centerfielder than Jackson, but both are good in my opinion.
    _________
    I agree that both are good; however, Jackson is better, especially going back on the ball. He has unbelievable speed and extension. Gardner lacks Jackson’s athleticism and reach.

    ////
    Agreed yankeefem.Austin Jackson has long legs and arms and really can use those limbs to jump for the ball & stretch out for it.I saw him make a Willie Mays like grab that just took my breath away.He’s going to go down as a great one in CF.

  264. yankeefeminista January 26th, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    tyanksfan36 January 26th, 2011 at 9:03 pm
    _______
    You, she and her brother are in my thoughts and prayers, tyf. Tell her to keep a candle lit at all times. It is a simple gesture, but a very comforting one.

  265. Pat M. January 26th, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    Jackson reminds me of Gary Pettis for those who were around back in the 80′s……

  266. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    How is a guy who is slower, not A’s quick, and posseses a weaker and less accurate arm, a “better athlete” than Gardner.

    He’s less of an athlete in all of the athletic areas a baseball player is assessed on.

  267. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    Ty, that’s so young – a real tragedy. I’m glad your friend got to see her brother before he passed, though.

  268. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    Hi Joe – how’s it going tonight?

  269. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    Thus the K’s. Gardner clearly has the better plate coverage and OBP. However, Jackson’s LD rates are impressive. He is still very raw, so it will be interesting to see how he develops going forward.

    Lacking contact is the one thing that will sink a player though. not much good if you can’t get wood on the ball.

  270. yankeefeminista January 26th, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 9:16 pm
    yankeefeminista January 26th, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    I don’t agree at all. Gardner lacks the physical skillset of Jackson. He has speed, but he is in no way as athletic. I agree that Jackson doesn’t have much of an arm. Gardner’s is average but usually fairly accurate. Both are obviously plus (or plus plus) defenders.
    ++++++++++
    The lack of arm is why the Yankees only saw him as a LFer, and his lack of power in LF is why they traded him.
    ________
    & because we now have a CFer with power, we can thus afford to play Gardner who has no power in left.

  271. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    He only hit 20 points higher than Gardner, had the same power, and got on base less. But going forward, I’d say Jackson has a better chance of getting exploited by opposing pitchers.

  272. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    “Lacking contact is the one thing that will sink a player though. not much good if you can’t get wood on the ball.”

    Yup. I think AJack risks becoming a part-time player if he can’t control the strike zone better.

  273. yankeefeminista January 26th, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 9:22 pm
    Thus the K’s. Gardner clearly has the better plate coverage and OBP. However, Jackson’s LD rates are impressive. He is still very raw, so it will be interesting to see how he develops going forward.

    Lacking contact is the one thing that will sink a player though. not much good if you can’t get wood on the ball.
    ______
    I believe his OBP vs. righties was .364 though, so… we shall see. It is his bat vs. lefties that is his biggest problem.

  274. SAS January 26th, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    tyyanks,

    My sincerest sympathies to your friend. That is very sad. My brother-in-law was very with CF as a charity.

  275. tyanksfan36 January 26th, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    Yankeefem

    Thanks. I never met him but knowing she is hurting, it makes me sad that she’s going through this. She is usually a very bright and cheery loud person and for the past couple months she has not been the same. I take care of her 3 year old and I can see its affecting her too. I’m sure she is glad his fight is over but with the wrong outcome.

  276. yankeefeminista January 26th, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    Pat M. January 26th, 2011 at 9:20 pm
    Jackson reminds me of Gary Pettis for those who were around back in the 80?s…
    _______
    Yes, good comp.

  277. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    Pat M. January 26th, 2011 at 9:18 pm
    GB…..I think you’d be surprised in the youthfulness of SJ, I know I was ……Lot’s of good energy and good vibes…..

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Very Yogi Berra/Ernie Harwell type, huh?

    It was unfair that I compared SJ’s age to Randy, though. SJ is dated in years..Randy in eons.

  278. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    Pat M. January 26th, 2011 at 9:20 pm
    Jackson reminds me of Gary Pettis for those who were around back in the 80?s……

    ///
    Talk about smooth.I can see the comparison.good one.

  279. Joe from Long Island January 26th, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    Hi, Betsy. Enjoying a nice evening here on the Island. Cleared the driveway and walkway from about 3 inches when I got home, and am resigned to clearing away at least 6 more tomorrow early AM. Nothing like a workout before heading in to work. And that morning drive should really be fun, too! ;)

    I know you can relate.

  280. yankeefeminista January 26th, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    tyanksfan36 January 26th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
    Yankeefem

    Thanks. I never met him but knowing she is hurting, it makes me sad that she’s going through this. She is usually a very bright and cheery loud person and for the past couple months she has not been the same. I take care of her 3 year old and I can see its affecting her too. I’m sure she is glad his fight is over but with the wrong outcome.
    ______
    Just be there for her, and let her tell you about her feelings and help her to keep her brother’s memory alive. I am sure having you as a friend is a great comfort to her.

  281. Tom in N.J. January 26th, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    My godson has CF. It’s awful.

  282. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    tyanksfan36-

    sorry to hear about your friend’s brother. that’s a tough one.

  283. Pat M. January 26th, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    Somewhere Tarheel is on the edge of his seat….Ty, sorry for your sadness

  284. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    tyanksfan36 -

    My heartfelt condolences. I will prayer that your friend finds comfort.

  285. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    tyanksfan36 January 26th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
    Yankeefem

    Thanks. I never met him but knowing she is hurting, it makes me sad that she’s going through this. She is usually a very bright and cheery loud person and for the past couple months she has not been the same. I take care of her 3 year old and I can see its affecting her too. I’m sure she is glad his fight is over but with the wrong outcome.

    ///
    wow very sad news tyanks.I’m sure you will be there for your friend & let her grieve around you if she needs to,which is all you can do,really.god bless.

  286. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    If AJack is Pettis, the Yankees sold high.

  287. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    Hey Joe…………it’s gross out now, just sleeting and rain and about to turn to snow. Be careful shoveling – under the best of conditions, it’s dangerous, but this is wet, heavy snow.

    I couldn’t believe the snow on the ground when I woke up today, lol. I didn’t get up early because we weren’t supposed to get anything until PM. I was none too pleased by the early precipitation. The roads were not good this morning at all, but it was at least better than the ice I encountered coming home. My car’s windows were iced up – though it didn’t take much warming for the ice to melt.

    Snow is really beautiful, but not when it’s like this, not when it’s this often and not when it’s this much, lol.

  288. tyanksfan36 January 26th, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    SAS

    Thanks, I think I might pick up the CF charity when I donate this year. I couldn’t imagine losing my brother.

  289. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    I believe his OBP vs. righties was .364 though, so… we shall see. It is his bat vs. lefties that is his biggest problem.

    But his walk rate was the same.

  290. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    What’s coming down from the sky out on the Island?

    Here in central NJ, right now it’s frozen wet – not rain, not snow. Though, since I finished shoveling, it did also snow a little bit.

  291. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    Frank DeFord had a little daughter, Alexandra, who had CF. He wrote a book and it was turned into a movie- talk about a tearjerker.

  292. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    Doreen, same………..snow should fall between 10 am and 5, about 2 inches per hour.

  293. Tom in N.J. January 26th, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    Sleet here in monmouth county.

  294. pat January 26th, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    Ledger_Yankees So Brian Cashman’s sitting there at te bar in a wig and bandana. And Steve Garvey walks in… #TrueStory

    Too funny. Do you bother explaining or just play it off like hanging at the bar in a wig is normal?

  295. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    I remember Boomer Esiason’s kid had CF.His son was so young & Boomer used to have to pound on his back to make him feel better.He couldn’t pronounce the disease & thought they were saying “65 roses.”

  296. yankeefeminista January 26th, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 9:24 pm
    He only hit 20 points higher than Gardner, had the same power, and got on base less. But going forward, I’d say Jackson has a better chance of getting exploited by opposing pitchers.
    _______
    Well, Jackson is a raw 23 year old. However, he has had too high K rates throughout his career.

  297. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    Betsy -

    Oy. Yuck. Guess another snow day tomorrow.

  298. pat January 26th, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    Big wet flakes here. About 2″ new so far.

  299. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    Rich in NJ January 26th, 2011 at 9:29 pm
    If AJack is Pettis, the Yankees sold high.

    ///
    Pettis with a much better bat,Rich.I think Pat M meant defensively.

  300. tyanksfan36 January 26th, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    Tom in N.J. says:

    January 26, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    My godson has CF. It’s awful.

    —-

    I’m sorry Tom, from what I’ve heard its horrible. He lived to his 30s and was actually doing well all things considered until the kidney transplant. Its not fair that such bad things like that exist.

  301. Pat M. January 26th, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    GB…..As much as this is such a great Yankee / baseball forum, I just wish about 10 or so of us could meet up at some neighborhood gin mill to just bs about baseball…….One thing about SJ was that after about 5 minutes it felt as though I knew him from the days of stickball…..Funny guy….

  302. yankeefeminista January 26th, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 9:30 pm
    I believe his OBP vs. righties was .364 though, so… we shall see. It is his bat vs. lefties that is his biggest problem.

    But his walk rate was the same.
    ____
    Better SLG though.

  303. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock

    We’ll see. I don’t think AJack’s probable offensive upside is that high, maybe league average.

  304. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    “Jackson reminds me of Gary Pettis for those who were around back in the 80?s…”

    pat m-

    i was playing on a semi pro team that played games on the same field in holyoke, ma that pettis played on. it must have been a double a team at the time. we’d be watching them while their game was finishing and pettis was just amazing in center field. they had a good shortstop named polidor too.

  305. yankeefeminista January 26th, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 9:36 pm
    Rich in NJ January 26th, 2011 at 9:29 pm
    If AJack is Pettis, the Yankees sold high.

    ///
    Pettis with a much better bat,Rich.I think Pat M meant defensively.
    __________
    Right, defensively, no?

  306. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Doreen, I think so, but until our office officially is closed, I won’t know. I would love for them to put it up on their website before I go to sleep so I don’t have to get up early for work if I don’t have to go in, but I don’t think that’s going to happen. I live only 10 minutes away, so I’m lucky, but still…………

    J Alfred – the pounding on the chest, back was a hard thing to watch depicted in the movie and book. If I recall, Boomer’s sun (Gunnar?) seems to be doing very well………

  307. Jerkface January 26th, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    Better SLG though.

    10 points more ISO than Gardner vs Right, but Gardner maintained the same ISO vs L and R.

  308. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Rich in NJ January 26th, 2011 at 9:37 pm
    J. Alfred Prufrock

    We’ll see. I don’t think AJack’s probable offensive upside is that high, maybe league average.

    ///
    I like the tools.we will see if he can gain the discipline. If he does, look out.I completely get Reggie comparing him the Ladanian Tomlinson-he’s quite the athlete.

  309. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    Betsy -

    My daughter much prefers to go to school. So I’ll have to keep her busy tomorrow.

    Other daughter is just getting so many of the things she does cancelled.

  310. tyanksfan36 January 26th, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    Thanks for all the condolences. My friend would be glad to know there are people thinking of her and her family while she is dealing with this.

  311. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    yankeefeminista January 26th, 2011 at 9:38 pm
    J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 9:36 pm
    Rich in NJ January 26th, 2011 at 9:29 pm
    If AJack is Pettis, the Yankees sold high.

    ///
    Pettis with a much better bat,Rich.I think Pat M meant defensively.
    __________
    Right, defensively, no?
    //
    that was my impression.

  312. Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    Doreen, it’s a shame about the cancellations – and it’s only 1/26. The rest of this winter isn’t looking too hot, but who knows; maybe it will be like last winter and the snow will just stop all of a sudden. It’s a great thing that your daughter enjoys school.

    I bought a Dunkin Hines Devils Food cake mix to make in case I’m home tomorrow. If I’m not, it will have to wait until the weekend…………..

  313. GreenBeret7 January 26th, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    Pat M. January 26th, 2011 at 9:36 pm
    GB…..As much as this is such a great Yankee / baseball forum, I just wish about 10 or so of us could meet up at some neighborhood gin mill to just bs about baseball…….One thing about SJ was that after about 5 minutes it felt as though I knew him from the days of stickball…..Funny guy….

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    That sounds like a blast, Pat. I’d like to get to Tampa for something other than check-ups, so hopefully, I can. Things are a little tight right now, so, I’m saving up for my next Tampa check-up in April and the Charleston trips. Charleston, Savannah and Tampa are great places to watch the kids and talk. Savannah and Charleston are great food towns, too. Love to sit at the games and talk to the old timers and the scouts. The best of all worlds.

  314. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    J Alfred – the pounding on the chest, back was a hard thing to watch depicted in the movie and book. If I recall, Boomer’s sun (Gunnar?) seems to be doing very well………
    ///
    that’s right, Gunnar.I haven’t kept up but I’m happy for the family he’s doing well.children have much to teach us.

  315. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    :arrow: New thread

  316. Nick in SF January 27th, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    :neutral:

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