The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Pinch Hitting: Ben Wolinsky

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Pinch hitters on Jan 26, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Our next Pinch Hitter is 26-year-old Ben Wolinsky, an IT professional living in Manhattan. He is a contributing blogger at www.nyat.net, with some television work mixed in. Ben’s family has followed the Yankees going back to his great-grandmother, who lived in the same Morris Avenue apartment building as many of the 1927 Murderers’ Row Yankees.

Ben his first Yankees game before his first birthday, and he has since attended the last game at the old stadium and the first exhibition game at the new stadium. Born in Manhattan and raised outside of Albany, he spent four years at Brandeis University outside of Boston and still managed to survive the 2004 World Series.

For his post, Ben considered Brian Cashman’s history of dealing — or keeping — the Yankees top prospects.

In Cashman We Trust

As the head of baseball operations for the New York Yankees, Brian Cashman is responsible for building a strong farm system while at the same time entertaining and evaluating ways to improve the Major League club. He often speaks of “holding onto the future” and not sacrificing talented prospects for immediate fixes. Yet, the Yankees are always focused on the present. Such polarizing demands put Cashman in a difficult position.

The most recent example of this conundrum is Jesus Montero. At the beginning of the off-season, Montero was tabbed as the front-runner to earn the position of starting catcher next season. However, Cashman decided to award the position to free agent Russell Martin. With Cliff Lee having returned to the Phillies, this would seemingly leave Montero available to be traded for starting pitching. Yet, it appears that Cashman is not ready to deal Montero (despite his inclusion in last year’s near deal for Lee). If Montero is not going to be given the opportunity to contribute on the Major League level in the near future, what is the point in holding onto Montero?

Given Cashman’s reluctance to deal his most valuable trade chip, we must take a critical look at his ability to evaluate Minor League talent and determine its Major League potential. Let us take a look at a couple of the deals in which top prospects were dealt for veteran Major League talent and a few of the prospects that — despite having been heavily rumored to have been included in deals — were kept for the benefit of the Major League club:

Players Dealt

Brandon Claussen – In 2003, Claussen was considered the top pitching prospect in the organization, yet the Yankees decided he was expendable if they were to acquire Aaron Boone. I, like many others, did not agree with trading away a young left-handed starting pitcher in exchange for an average hitter in Boone. However, it appears that the Yankees were not worse as a consequence of this deal. Claussen made 57 starts for the Reds from 2004-2006, going 15-27. Boone hit one memorable home run before a knee injury indirectly led the Yankees to acquire Alex Rodriguez. While Claussen may have been able to provide rotation depth, it is apparent that they did not deal away a top-of-the-rotation starter.

Dioner Navarro – Navarro, a switch-hitting catcher, was ranked as one of the top prospects in the Yankee organization and was their top prospect heading into 2004. However, with Jorge Posada entrenched at catcher, he was deemed expendable in favor of acquiring Randy Johnson. Johnson did not perform as expected, but Navarro never turned into the player he was expected to be. With the exception of his All Star season with the Rays in 2008, Navarro has largely been a disappointment. After being sent down partway through last season, he was non-tendered by the Rays this past offseason.

Players Kept

Alfonso Soriano – From 1999-2000, almost every deal that the Yankees were rumored to be a part of included Alfonso Soriano. Yet Cashman held onto him and in the end, his patience paid off. Soriano had three productive seasons for the Yankees, including a near 40-40 season in 2002, before being dealt for Alex Rodriguez prior to 2004. Soriano continued to produce after departing the Yankees and his inclusion in the deal for Rodriguez was well warranted. Needless to say, we would have been quite sorry to see him dealt prematurely for a player such as the oft-injured Rondell White.

Phil Hughes – Phil Hughes was twice ranked the top prospect in the Yankee organization and was undoubtedly one of the top prospects in all of baseball. In his second Major League start, he no-hit the Texas Rangers into the 7th inning before leaving with an injury. Going into the offseason, Cashman was given the opportunity to acquire to Johan Santana from the Twins in exchange for Hughes. However, Cashman decided to hold on to Hughes. While the move initially looked to be an incorrect one, as Hughes went winless in 2008, Hughes went on to be a critical cog out of the bullpen in 2009 and took major leaps forward as a starter in 2010. At 24 years old, most agree that Hughes has not reached his ceiling.

To be fair, many of the veterans Cashman has acquired via trade did not work out as well as he would have liked. However, can we honestly think of one transaction in which the Yankees received a player who provided little value while the prospect traded away went on to superstardom? This is not to say that none of the prospects he has traded have gone to success (i.e. Tyler Clippard, Juan Rivera, etc). But have any of them lurked around the way Ken Phelps-Jay Buhner turned out?

So in conclusion, let us have confidence that if Cashman chooses not to trade Montero anytime soon, it is with good reason and much to the benefit of the New York Yankees.

Associated Press photo

Comments

comments

 

Advertisement

147 Responses to “Pinch Hitting: Ben Wolinsky”

  1. YankeesNmore January 26th, 2011 at 9:09 am

    Anybody else hear Cashman talk about the Joba injury in Texas a few years ago?

    Here’s the quote, as printed in a recent LoHud story:
    “(Chamberlain) hasn’t been the same since that episode in Texas,” said Cashman.
    ——————————————————–
    Now where have I head that before? Oh ya! I’ve been saying/writing the exact same thing for YEARS!

  2. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2011 at 9:11 am

    There is nothing wrong with Hank’s words unless his words reflect a willingness to make stupid, short-sighted moves that include trading Montero and/or the Killer Bs for less than a superstar under 29.

  3. Crawdaddy January 26th, 2011 at 9:13 am

    I’m starting to agree with Rich about liking Cashman even moreso when he opens up and speaks his mind more openly.

    http://www.theyankeeu.com/2011.....sion-24556

  4. MTU January 26th, 2011 at 9:16 am

    “You got to know when to hold ‘em, know when to fold ‘em.”

    ;)

  5. Crawdaddy January 26th, 2011 at 9:18 am

    Cashman doesn’t care if Jeter likes him or not. He doesn’t mind playing the bad cop role so his manager doesn’t have to do so. As long as Jeter gets along with the Yankee manager and owners, that’s the only thing that counts relationship-wise. Chances are Cashman won’t have to negotiate another deal with Jeter again.

  6. 86w183 January 26th, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Reports out of Washington say the Nationals are asking Cleveland about Fausto Carmona. That’s the guy who the Yanks need to get. He’s not great, but he’s also not Sergio Mitre and he was really good last year (13-14, 3.77, 210 1/3 innings)

    Nice little column, but with all the moves and non moved over the years why those four guys to focus on?

  7. Tom in N.J. January 26th, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Cash on Dellin Betances and Manny Baneulos

    “Phil Hughes or better ceilings”

  8. Erin January 26th, 2011 at 9:21 am

    Yay-one of the elf pictures!! :)

  9. upstate kate January 26th, 2011 at 9:21 am

    I think having Martin as the starting catcher has more to do w/ Po and less to do w/ Montero. I think we see Montero called up at some point in the season, if he doesn’t make the trip north initially.

  10. ac1 January 26th, 2011 at 9:21 am

    Reports out of Washington say the Nationals are asking Cleveland about Fausto Carmona. That’s the guy who the Yanks need to get. He’s not great, but he’s also not Sergio Mitre and he was really good last year (13-14, 3.77, 210 1/3 innings)

    Nice little column, but with all the moves and non moved over the years why those four guys to focus on?

    ___

    Can get Duchscherer without trading two or three prospects (probably at least one of the ones we really like too).

  11. Erica in NY January 26th, 2011 at 9:24 am

    I am quitting this winter

    If anyone needs me I am hibernating until spring

  12. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 9:25 am

    The Nats aren’t just looking at Carmona – they’re doing what I suggested the Yankees consider – they’re trying to get Carmona and also buy low on Sizemore to minimize the talent that they would have to send back to Cleveland.

    It’s a package the Yankees should jump all over.

    Yankees get: Carmona and Sizemore

    Indians get: Gardner, Joba, Warren

  13. upstate kate January 26th, 2011 at 9:25 am

    Craw
    thanks for the link, good article

    Erica
    there is no sense to quit in the winter, quit in the spring/summer when you can enjoy the weather

  14. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 9:27 am

    ac1 January 26th, 2011 at 9:21 am
    Reports out of Washington say the Nationals are asking Cleveland about Fausto Carmona. That’s the guy who the Yanks need to get. He’s not great, but he’s also not Sergio Mitre and he was really good last year (13-14, 3.77, 210 1/3 innings)

    Nice little column, but with all the moves and non moved over the years why those four guys to focus on?

    ___

    Can get Duchscherer without trading two or three prospects (probably at least one of the ones we really like too).

    ———————

    Over the last two years Carmona has thrown 335 innings

    Justin Duchscherer has thrown 28

  15. Mike Ri January 26th, 2011 at 9:28 am

    Reports out of Washington say the Nationals are asking Cleveland about Fausto Carmona. That?s the guy who the Yanks need to get. He?s not great, but he?s also not Sergio Mitre and he was really good last year (13-14, 3.77, 210 1/3 innings)

    Interesting !

  16. Erica in NY January 26th, 2011 at 9:29 am

    Upstate Kate-

    I am not supposed to live in a place where it snows every day.

    This isn’t for me.

    I left my apartment this morning and it was lovely outside. Then as I drove, I saw a flurry. Then I saw more flurries. By the time I got to work there was an inch on the ground. Its not stopping :-(

  17. letsgoyanks51 January 26th, 2011 at 9:30 am

    Hey guys. Ben W here. There really wasn’t any specific reason why I chose to focus on those four players, other than that they just sort of stuck out in my mind.

    I, along with many of my contemporaries, were upset that the Yankees dealt Claussen, being that he was a young left-handed starting pitcher. And while I wasn’t that upset when they dealt Navarro, I’m fairly certain that there were doubts as to how many more years Posada had in the tank. Fortunately, Posada proved to us that he still had plenty left and Navarro didn’t have much of anything.

    As for Hughes and Soriano, they were two of the most heavily hyped prospects of the past 12 years and they were probably the best examples of patience paying off.

  18. austinmac January 26th, 2011 at 9:33 am

    Erica,

    Come on down. It never snows here. 63 and sunny today.

    Of course, it’s 102 in the summer.

  19. Tom in N.J. January 26th, 2011 at 9:33 am

    I’m getting soft.

    I spent 4 winters in WNY and ditching my car was a monthly occurrence. Now I’m upset about 4 inches of snow.

  20. Erica in NY January 26th, 2011 at 9:34 am

    austinmac January 26th, 2011 at 9:33 am
    Erica,

    Come on down. It never snows here. 63 and sunny today.

    Of course, it’s 102 in the summer.

    *************

    That sounds nice- but I don’t love heat either.

    I would make an excellent snow bunny :-)

  21. blake January 26th, 2011 at 9:34 am

    Chip,

    That’s selling low big time on Sizemore…..if he bounces back he could bring much more than that…..especially when you’re including Carmona. I think the Indians are going to give Grady a chance to re-establish his value before trading him.

  22. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 9:34 am

    Chip–

    Awful trade.

    Carmona is very inconsistent and Sizemoire is still damaged goods until proven otherwise…yet you willingly give up a 4 WAR OFer, a set up man who is undervalued, and a top prospect (eh).

    I’d pass on Carmona even if straight up for Joba. He is just as likely to revert to awful this year as progress upwards.

  23. Erin January 26th, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Erica- at least January is almost over. We’re slowly moving in the right direction. ;)

  24. Erica in NY January 26th, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Tom in N.J. January 26th, 2011 at 9:33 am
    I’m getting soft.

    I spent 4 winters in WNY and ditching my car was a monthly occurrence. Now I’m upset about 4 inches of snow.

    *************

    The problem is downstate isn’t equipped to deal with weather the same way the upstate region is.

    Its too congested and snow removal isn’t budgetted the same way.

  25. Erica in NY January 26th, 2011 at 9:36 am

    Erin January 26th, 2011 at 9:35 am
    Erica- at least January is almost over. We’re slowly moving in the right direction.

    ***************

    If that stupid groundhog sees its shadow next week, I will kill him!

  26. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 9:36 am

    letsgoyanks51 January 26th, 2011 at 9:30 am
    ++++++++++++++
    I’m sure you were facing a limit to size of your post, but it seemed like such a small sample size. There are many more trades to look at, including Javy V and Curtis G.

  27. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 26th, 2011 at 9:37 am

    “I think having Martin as the starting catcher has more to do w/ Po and less to do w/ Montero. I think we see Montero called up at some point in the season, if he doesn’t make the trip north initially”

    Absolutely and unequivocally agree. And getting more time in the minors definitely will not hurt Montero. We’ve all seen the outcome of guys brought up too early!

  28. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 9:38 am

    But to me, the question when trading a prospect is not how he does for the other team, but how well would he have played for Yankees? Would he have even made the starting line-up?

    THus, a loss of a Melky Cabrerra, AJax, Ohlendorf, Tabata, or Navarro is no big deal no matter how they ultimately perform.

  29. Tom in N.J. January 26th, 2011 at 9:39 am

    Erica, for you:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmbURZANDOo

  30. ac1 January 26th, 2011 at 9:39 am

    Over the last two years Carmona has thrown 335 innings

    Justin Duchscherer has thrown 28

    ___

    I would argue that 335 is not a great number for two seasons either, since he is supposedly an ace. CC has thrown around 450 or something like that. 335 indicates to be he also has health risks.

    Just saying.

  31. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 9:40 am

    blake January 26th, 2011 at 9:34 am

    Chip,

    That’s selling low big time on Sizemore…..if he bounces back he could bring much more than that…..especially when you’re including Carmona. I think the Indians are going to give Grady a chance to re-establish his value before trading him.
    +++++++++++++++
    And from Yankees perspective, it is overvaluing Sizemore since he hasn’t proven he is healthy or recovered.

    A mismatch from both ends on how to best value a player.

  32. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 9:41 am

    The Duke is not the answer either.

    Now is the time to wait until end of ST when other pitchers and players maybe on the market. It happens every year that someone becomes available.

  33. upstate kate January 26th, 2011 at 9:43 am

    Erica
    I am not a winter person either, but I am married to one, so I just have to make the best of it.
    And you are right, we are very well equipped to deal w/ the weather up here. Much less traffic and more places to put all the snow.
    The bright side is I now am driving home in the light.

  34. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 9:47 am

    BoJo and Blake -

    Very interesting the way you two saw one trade and thought I was giving up too much and not enough.

  35. Erica in NY January 26th, 2011 at 9:47 am

    Tom in NJ-

    Can’t Youtube at work :-(

  36. letsgoyanks51 January 26th, 2011 at 9:48 am

    I definitely considered mentioning Javy Vazquez (both trades) and Curtis Granderson.

    The first time they traded Vazquez, they traded three players (Nick Johnson, Juan Rivera, and Randy Choate), two of whom had Major League Experience. Given the questions surrounding the rotation going into 2004, it was definitely a good trade to have made at the time. However, we all know how it turned out. Fortunately, only Rivera turned out to be a consistent Major League bat.

    As for the second Vazquez trade, I think we will have to wait and see what the future holds for Aroldys Vizcaino, as he was the probably the player that Cashman wanted to include the least.

    As for the Granderson deal, we’ll have to see what is in store for Austin Jackson in his second year. Personally, I think Granderson is a better fit for the Yankees and Jackson a better fit for the Tigers. Jackson has gap power, which serves him well in a large ballpark like Comerica. Granderson has home run power, which is better served at Yankee Stadium.

  37. blake January 26th, 2011 at 9:50 am

    Bojo,

    If Joba is a middle reliever then I consider that deal from the Yankees side. It upgrades the rotation and potentially upgrades the outfield as well (that part is a gamble however). I think the Indians would hang up quick on that one right now though.

  38. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    Nice post. I agree that Cashman walks a fine line in this regard.

    ****

    Javy and Curtis trades need another year to assess properly.

    So far it looks like though the Yankees didn’t get what they wanted from Javy, they got more than they expected from Boone Logan. Melky Cabrera disappointed and is now gone from Atlanta, and didn’t Vizcaino have some sort of injury? The only one to watch in that trade is Vizcaino.

    The Granderson trade is a lot more complicated, I think. Surely in the beginning of the year it wasn’t looking too good. But Grandy did suffer an injury that kept him out for some time and that can’t be discounted. He did take it upon himself to make improvements and ended up having a very, very good post season for himself (always good to be good in the Post-Season, no?). Austin Jackson looked amazing the first half of the season, but cooled down a bit and his strikeouts were as high as a lot of people were afraid they’d be. Still, he’s one to watch this season. IPK was good for Arizona, but many don’t see him as being able to be as successful in the AL East. Phil Coke? We’ll see.

    So, jury’s still out on the Grandy one, I guess. I’d be satisfied if it’s balanced in the end.

  39. Against All Odds January 26th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    # Tom in N.J. January 26th, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Cash on Dellin Betances and Manny Baneulos

    “Phil Hughes or better ceilings”

    —————————————

    Oh boy

  40. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 9:52 am

    letsgoyanks51 January 26th, 2011 at 9:48 am
    I definitely considered mentioning Javy Vazquez (both trades) and Curtis Granderson.

    The first time they traded Vazquez, they traded three players (Nick Johnson, Juan Rivera, and Randy Choate), two of whom had Major League Experience. Given the questions surrounding the rotation going into 2004, it was definitely a good trade to have made at the time. However, we all know how it turned out. Fortunately, only Rivera turned out to be a consistent Major League bat.

    As for the second Vazquez trade, I think we will have to wait and see what the future holds for Aroldys Vizcaino, as he was the probably the player that Cashman wanted to include the least.

    As for the Granderson deal, we’ll have to see what is in store for Austin Jackson in his second year. Personally, I think Granderson is a better fit for the Yankees and Jackson a better fit for the Tigers. Jackson has gap power, which serves him well in a large ballpark like Comerica. Granderson has home run power, which is better served at Yankee Stadium.

    ———————–

    I had no issue with any of those three trades.

    The only two trades that really irked me were Lowell for Yarnell and then Wily Mo Pena to re-acquire Drew Henson.

  41. Against All Odds January 26th, 2011 at 9:54 am

    POST FROM PREVIOUS THREAD

    # Against All Odds January 26th, 2011 at 9:37 am

    # Betsy January 26th, 2011 at 8:29 am

    So Joba has an ongoing shoulder issue and the Yankees still let him compete for the 5th spot in 2010? How does that make any sense? That’s the question I’m seeing all over the boards and Cash has to explain that.

    ————————————————–

    That’s the question that many fans have. I asked Chip the same question yesterday and he stated maybe ST was the final judgment they needed to make their decision. That’s not a direct quote but it’s along the lines out what he said. Maybe that’s truth but if it is why risk it? Why risk getting hurt pitching multiple innings in ST. Why tell him to prepare in the off season as a starter if you are worried about him starting.

  42. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 26th, 2011 at 9:58 am

    Ben, not to throw a monkey-wrench into the works, and your way of evaluating is really the only way to do it if one is to try to balance out what is as opposed to what could have been.

    However, when it comes to trading prospects – actually when it comes to any trade – the reality as I see it is that you cannot transfer what happens away from to Bronx to the Bronx. There is nothing that tells us with certainty that player X would have played the same way with one team as he would with another. It doesn’t necessarily work with more seasoned players, why would it work with prospects? Ian Kennedy seems to be doing okay with the Dbacks. His short body of work with the Yankees was dismal. A different venue? Different pitching coach? Different league? Different atmosphere?

    Our guy Austin Jackson had a heck of a season with Detroit. Do we know he would have put up the same numbers in the Bronx? In Arizona? With the Cubs? Different pitchers, different venues, different coaches, different everything.

    That is why once a deal is made, I don’t bother looking back, rather I just look ahead. The truth is there is no way to know whether it was a good deal or a bad deal. You can end up with a player who is dismal and prospects who are flourshing elsewhere and be tempted to call your deal a bust. And I guess in the here and now it would feel that way. But the reality is that nobody can know what would have happened if. You have to trust your scouts and your organization and hope for the best.

    Didn’t meant to pull this somewhere else, but since the subject matter had to do with trading prospects and evaluating, I wanted to share my perspective. I apologize if it throws things off too much. Unfortunately (?) my mind is wired in such a way that I seem to wander into “unchartered territory” and muck up the works.

    I do agree that Cashman does a good job of evaluating in the here and now – with some exceptions, but he’s human – and that is really all we can ask for. The rest is a crapshoot and we keep our fingers crossed.

    (About seasoned players, the one who comes immediately to mind is Edgar Renterria. Check out his journey and the teams that thought they were getting a great deal, those who feel they got burned. Certainly didn’t prosper in beantown but did a good job elsewhere.

  43. coolerking101 January 26th, 2011 at 9:59 am

    Wasn’t Claussen already damaged goods when he was traded? I recall he had some serious injury during his stint in the Yankee farm system.

  44. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 26th, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Off for my walk. I want to say for the record that I love love love love love love love winter and snow. I was totally bummed when NY/NJ hogged all the snow last year and every prediction of a major storm for RI “went out to sea”. We are definitely making up for it this winter! Our predictions for this week are snow, snow and more snow.

    Off to walk and then to the market for storm food.

    Later y’all.

    :)

  45. letsgoyanks51 January 26th, 2011 at 10:06 am

    I believe that Claussen had Tommy John surgery the season prior, but was actively pitching. He had made one start for the Yankees against the Mets and had pitched well.

  46. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    Funny line from Heyman:

    Andy Pettitte changing his last name to Godot

  47. Gary January 26th, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Personal opinion, but I think after this year we need to go in a different direction GM wise. I was reading the latest posts from yesterday.

    Boston is a better team (GM is in charge of putting the team together and the GM is Brian) but we have a better bullpen, but then I didn’t agree with the deal to get one of the guys that made our bullpen better, mgmt overrode me and made the deal?

    One starter away from being a real WS contendor, perhaps but I think it’s really at least two.

    Seems that much of what Brian has been saying ends up in a circular type discussion.

    I see a parting of ways after this season.

  48. G. Love January 26th, 2011 at 10:13 am

    I loved Hank’s quotes this morning. I don’t think he said anything ridiculous.

    I also like that he’s defending the Soriano move as Cashman has put a negative tint on it with his disowning it for his reasons.

    My favorite part was when he said how if the Yankees have injuries, the media ignores it, but when Boston and Philly have injuries they are praised for hanging in there despite the injuries.

    He gets it.

    It was a good “rah rah go Yankees” type of interview which was needed with all the negative spin from the Cashman quotes of late.

    It’s nice to see someone excited about the team in the front office.

  49. Erica in NY January 26th, 2011 at 10:13 am

    Trisha-

    I loved snow a whole lot more when I didn’t have to drive an hour each way in it

  50. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 10:15 am

    Gary -

    That stuck out to me too – the fact that Cashman thinks the Yankees have the better overall pen but was vehemently against the move that gave them that advantage.

  51. West Coast Yankee Fan January 26th, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Chip January 26th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    Funny line from Heyman: Andy Pettitte changing his last name to Godot.

    ***************

    Do you have any proof that Heyman wrtoe that line? I would suspect Boras fed it to him.

  52. Tom in N.J. January 26th, 2011 at 10:19 am

    Beckett’s ‘Endgame’ may be the more apropos here.

    Andy has a past. However, he may not have a future…

  53. 108 stitches January 26th, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Justin Duchscherer has to have a bullpen session in front of Yankee ML scouts first before making a determination.
    Wandy Rodriquez is out – signed a 4-year deal to stay in Houston.
    Fausto Carmona will cost some prospects. Depending on who, Cashman won’t listen.
    David Phelps, D.J. Mitchell, Hector Noesi, and Adam Warren should be prepared to impress in 19 more days seeing that the team is in a rushing the prospects mode.

  54. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 10:24 am

    WCYF -

    outstanding!

  55. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 10:25 am

    Yankees did sign the ugliest man I’ve ever seen in Warner Madrigal to a minor league contract.

  56. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 10:28 am

    Here’s a thought – albeit not a very good one.

    Next year the Giants will have to deal with contracts for Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez and Brian Wilson.

    Could the Yankees do something like:

    Gardner, Joba, Nunez and another prospect for Rowand and Cain?

    Taking on Rowand would help their salary situation in San Fran and Cain is Cain – he would be a terrific young pitching asset for the Yankees.

  57. austinmac January 26th, 2011 at 10:28 am

    It now seems Pettitte dealt with more physical issues last year than we knew about. This makes me suspect Andy’s workouts are intended to tell him how his body is responding and whether he thinks he will have those problems again. None of us knows the answer to that.

  58. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 10:31 am

    And even after a night’s sleep I still can’t figure out why Texas traded for Napoli.

    Unless they are actually going to find someone to take Young they are going to end up paying a lot of money for Napoli to be a utility guy.

  59. upstate kate January 26th, 2011 at 10:33 am

    I think Cash did not want to give up the draft pick and/or overpay for Soriano. I think he DID want Soriano, just not at that price. I also think he didn’t want to jeopardize future dealings, so he wanted to make it clear this wasn’t his deal.

    And I agree w/ you autinmac on Andy.

  60. Against All Odds January 26th, 2011 at 10:34 am

    # Chip January 26th, 2011 at 10:31 am

    And even after a night’s sleep I still can’t figure out why Texas traded for Napoli.

    Unless they are actually going to find someone to take Young they are going to end up paying a lot of money for Napoli to be a utility guy.

    ———————————————–

    Is it just me or does it seem like they have soured on Young? Maybe it’s not wanting to pay him that type of money but boy how far are you going to go to tell a guy we no longer want you on the team.

  61. 86w183 January 26th, 2011 at 10:35 am

    I don’t see any reason to lump Sizemore with Carmona and agree with the view that Cleveland would be foolish to sell low on Sizemore.

    Carmona did have health issues in 2008-09 that contributed to his poor numbers, but it’s nothing dramatic. In his two healthy seasons (2007, ’10) he has 32 wins (32-22), a 3.41 ERA and threw 425 innings.

    He’s 27 years old and had his best season with CC as a teammate/mentor. I would happily give up Joba, Romine and Phelps or Warren for him and might be willing to pay an even higher price.

    There’s risk in any pick up, but to me if Carmona is available he’s the guy to get and I’ve been saying (typing) it the entire off season.

  62. 86w183 January 26th, 2011 at 10:39 am

    Michael Young loves Texas and will not approve a trade. He has complete no-trade rights and won’t waive them.

    Yes, Texas is treating him like crap which is appalling seeing how the guy moved positions twice to accommodate the team and has indicated a willingness to do it again.

  63. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 10:41 am

    Against All Odds January 26th, 2011 at 10:34 am
    # Chip January 26th, 2011 at 10:31 am

    And even after a night’s sleep I still can’t figure out why Texas traded for Napoli.

    Unless they are actually going to find someone to take Young they are going to end up paying a lot of money for Napoli to be a utility guy.

    ———————————————–

    Is it just me or does it seem like they have soured on Young? Maybe it’s not wanting to pay him that type of money but boy how far are you going to go to tell a guy we no longer want you on the team.

    ———————-

    I don’t know about souring on him – I think they’re going through their own version of what the Yankees have gone through with Jeter. Aging superstar – clearly the leader of your team – but a step slower than he used to be.

    Maybe they really aren’t confident in Moreland and Davis at 1b and think Young will wind up playing there most days. Maybe they’re legitimately worried about the health of Kinsler and Beltre.

    I really don’t know, but on its face this deal makes very little sense to me given the structure of their roster.

    As I said though, on the flip side – Toronto’s going to have an awful defensive team but their starting staff and core relief pitchers are going to be a major issue for teams.

    Francisco and Dotel setting up Rauch ain’t going to be easy.

  64. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 10:45 am

    i’m more concerned with the pitching than the offense under cashman.
    teams with half the pitching payroll routinely outperform yankee pitching.

    with cashman being in full control for almost 5 years , the yankees find themselves going into the season with the most likely outcome being in the middle of the pack in starting pitching. all this paying twice as much as teams that will do better in starting pitching.

    the bullpen should be very good, but that is because of soriano being added against cashman’s will.

    personally, i think if cashman were really into development as much as people think he is he would have kept jackson , kennedy, and coke. the wishy-washiness with joba as a starter / reliever and trading of montero for a lee two month rental shows a lack of commitment to his own development plan.

    if cashman trades montero to get himself out the self inflicted starting pitching mess he’s got himself into, he will once and for all show that he has no real commitment to developing players.

    it would be sacrilege to trade montero. a bat like his comes along once every ten years. why would you even think of trading that for a two month rental like he tried to do?

    the cult of cashman is obviously still strong at lohud but if he trades montero even the most ardent supporter would have to reevaluate their position.

    i still think the yankees will make the playoffs so i’m not that worried about cashman’s inability to get the most out of the money he spends on pitching. he’s certainly no billy beane at putting a pitching staff together.

  65. Against All Odds January 26th, 2011 at 10:47 am

    # Chip January 26th, 2011 at 10:41 am

    Against All Odds January 26th, 2011 at 10:34 am
    # Chip January 26th, 2011 at 10:31 am

    And even after a night’s sleep I still can’t figure out why Texas traded for Napoli.

    Unless they are actually going to find someone to take Young they are going to end up paying a lot of money for Napoli to be a utility guy.

    ———————————————–

    Is it just me or does it seem like they have soured on Young? Maybe it’s not wanting to pay him that type of money but boy how far are you going to go to tell a guy we no longer want you on the team.

    ———————-

    I don’t know about souring on him – I think they’re going through their own version of what the Yankees have gone through with Jeter. Aging superstar – clearly the leader of your team – but a step slower than he used to be.

    Maybe they really aren’t confident in Moreland and Davis at 1b and think Young will wind up playing there most days. Maybe they’re legitimately worried about the health of Kinsler and Beltre.

    I really don’t know, but on its face this deal makes very little sense to me given the structure of their roster.

    As I said though, on the flip side – Toronto’s going to have an awful defensive team but their starting staff and core relief pitchers are going to be a major issue for teams.

    Francisco and Dotel setting up Rauch ain’t going to be easy.

    ———————————————-

    It doesn’t make much sense to me either. The belief was Young was going to get his at bats at DH once Beltre signed.

    Yes the Blue Jays are going heavy on building a strong pitching staff. After yrs of running around in circles it seems like they are on the right path.

  66. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 10:54 am

    randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 10:45 am
    i’m more concerned with the pitching than the offense under cashman.
    teams with half the pitching payroll routinely outperform yankee pitching.

    with cashman being in full control for almost 5 years , the yankees find themselves going into the season with the most likely outcome being in the middle of the pack in starting pitching. all this paying twice as much as teams that will do better in starting pitching.

    the bullpen should be very good, but that is because of soriano being added against cashman’s will.

    personally, i think if cashman were really into development as much as people think he is he would have kept jackson , kennedy, and coke. the wishy-washiness with joba as a starter / reliever and trading of montero for a lee two month rental shows a lack of commitment to his own development plan.

    if cashman trades montero to get himself out the self inflicted starting pitching mess he’s got himself into, he will once and for all show that he has no real commitment to developing players.

    it would be sacrilege to trade montero. a bat like his comes along once every ten years. why would you even think of trading that for a two month rental like he tried to do?

    the cult of cashman is obviously still strong at lohud but if he trades montero even the most ardent supporter would have to reevaluate their position.

    i still think the yankees will make the playoffs so i’m not that worried about cashman’s inability to get the most out of the money he spends on pitching. he’s certainly no billy beane at putting a pitching staff together.

    ———————-

    Randy -

    The trades of prospects doesn’t indicate a lack of belief in his development plan at all – Cashman (and Stick before him) have always said that the development of prospects helps the club in two ways – either by having those players join the club or by trading them for established players who can help the club. That’s been the philosophy for as far back as I can remember.

    The Joba stuff was based on need – in 2007 the Yankees needed, desperately needed, help in the pen and Joba offered that. From then the plan was to return him to a starting role and he got hurt and now the organization believes that due to that injury he’s better suited in the pen.

    It’s true that Cashman’s record with pitching hasn’t been very good – but at the time no one questioned the majority of his moves. Teams were lined up to sign Pavano, the Vazquez trade and Contreras signings were considered genius moves across the sport; getting Randy Johnson for garbage was decried around the game as “the rich getting richer”

    The moves didn’t work out – but just as 29 other GMs would love to have their owners force Soriano on them, 29 other GMs would have made those same moves.

  67. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 10:57 am

    Randy -

    One more thing.

    Can Jesus Montero get a major leage at bat before you start clearing a spot for him in Cooperstown?

    Why would he consider trading him for Lee? Because the Yankees are very deep at Catcher and Cliff Lee may have represented the difference between whether or not the Yankees won #28.

    With this organization winning will always come before development.

  68. Carlo January 26th, 2011 at 10:58 am

    Carmona > Duchscherer > Mitre

    Carmona costs prospects and its questionable whether cleveland actually has a desire to deal him. if they in fact do, then it becomes a question of what it takes and my gut is that washington is more willing to pay the prospect price then cashman is.

  69. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:00 am

    Against All Odds January 26th, 2011 at 10:47 am

    Yes the Blue Jays are going heavy on building a strong pitching staff. After yrs of running around in circles it seems like they are on the right path.
    —————————–

    Anthopolus did a great job clearing the last albatross off their payroll. The issue he’s going to have will be convincing good players that they want to come play in Toronto.

    It wouldn’t shock me if with his new found fortune he tries to make a splash next winter – the key will be to make the right splash and not simply replace the mistakes of the Rios and Wells deals with another one.

  70. Doreen January 26th, 2011 at 11:02 am

    One of the problems with Toronto is that it is Toronto, I guess, Chip.

  71. 86w183 January 26th, 2011 at 11:02 am

    Randy you are such an absolutist. If Montero was traded for a re-habbing Johan Santana that’s one thing, but if he were traded for Madison Bumgarner or Matt Cain that’s a different story.

    You use whatcha got for whatcha need.

    Would you include Montero in a trade for King Felix? I sure as hell would.

  72. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 11:04 am

    “Can Jesus Montero get a major leage at bat before you start clearing a spot for him in Cooperstown?”

    i’ll bet his swing speed is higher right now than the swing speed of 95% of all hall of famers (and maybe 99% of all hall of famers).

    since he seems to have no trouble getting that swing speed on the ball, i think i’m pretty realistic in my appraisal of him.

  73. BIG AL January 26th, 2011 at 11:05 am

    randy l.
    “i still think the yankees will make the playoffs so i’m not that worried about cashman’s inability to get the most out of the money he spends on pitching. he’s certainly no billy beane at putting a pitching staff together.”

    —————————————————–
    And just how many WS has Billy Beane won in the past 20 years?

  74. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 11:05 am

    There is only one guy I’d trade Montero for and that’s for King Felix.

    Absent that, he stays.

    Given the fact that’s he’s only been offered for Lee or Halladay, it’s pretty clear he’s not going anywhere unless they got back an elite starter, he’s not going anywhere.

  75. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 11:06 am

    randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 10:45 am

    i’m more concerned with the pitching than the offense under cashman.
    teams with half the pitching payroll routinely outperform yankee pitching.

    with cashman being in full control for almost 5 years , the yankees find themselves going into the season with the most likely outcome being in the middle of the pack in starting pitching. all this paying twice as much as teams that will do better in starting pitching.
    ++++++++++++++++
    Hmmm–can you name any team that does a better job at development? And perhaps discuss it for the next 4 days? :-)

    Actually, if not for injuries, the staff would consist of CC, Wang, Pettitte. Burnett, Hughes or Joba. The injuries to Wang and Joba really hurt what would be the best rotation in baseball by far.

  76. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:07 am

    randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 11:04 am
    “Can Jesus Montero get a major leage at bat before you start clearing a spot for him in Cooperstown?”

    i’ll bet his swing speed is higher right now than the swing speed of 95% of all hall of famers (and maybe 99% of all hall of famers).

    since he seems to have no trouble getting that swing speed on the ball, i think i’m pretty realistic in my appraisal of him.

    —————————-

    So because he’s got great bat speed it is a sure thing he’s going to be not just a ML player but an all time great?

    You have to be kidding right?

  77. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Montero should be in the majors the minute he is no longer eligible for Super Two status.

  78. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:08 am

    SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 11:05 am
    There is only one guy I’d trade Montero for and that’s for King Felix.

    Absent that, he stays.

    Given the fact that’s he’s only been offered for Lee or Halladay, it’s pretty clear he’s not going anywhere unless they got back an elite starter, he’s not going anywhere.

    ———————

    I would put Josh Johnson and Adam Wainwright in that mix too.

  79. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2011 at 11:08 am
    Montero should be in the majors the minute he is no longer eligible for Super Two status.

    —————-

    Screw Super Two – he should be in the majors the minute he proves he is ready to play in the majors.

  80. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 11:09 am

    I wonder how good Oakland’s pitching staff would be if they didn’t have a home field that offered miles of foul territory.

    It’s interesting to me how little success their pitchers have on the road and how the arms they traded had mixed success at their new venues.

  81. blake January 26th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    SJ,

    I agree…..there might be another guy or two that Id consider as well but as you say they would have to be a sure fire #1 that’s still younger than say 27.

    If Seattle falls out of contention early again what is your thoughts on Felix and whether the Mariners might consider moving him this summer.

  82. Against All Odds January 26th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    # Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:00 am

    Against All Odds January 26th, 2011 at 10:47 am

    Yes the Blue Jays are going heavy on building a strong pitching staff. After yrs of running around in circles it seems like they are on the right path.
    —————————–

    Anthopolus did a great job clearing the last albatross off their payroll. The issue he’s going to have will be convincing good players that they want to come play in Toronto.

    It wouldn’t shock me if with his new found fortune he tries to make a splash next winter – the key will be to make the right splash and not simply replace the mistakes of the Rios and Wells deals with another one.

    ————————————

    That’s what they have to be careful about. Don’t make a big splash just because the money is burning a hole in your pocket.

  83. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    “And just how many WS has Billy Beane won in the past 20 years?”

    big al-

    i guess you know better than me why you didn’t call yourself “smart al”.

    you want to compare a’s pitching with yankee’s pitching for the money ? knock yourself out.

  84. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    “Screw Super Two – he should be in the majors the minute he proves he is ready to play in the majors.”

    Unwise if that minute occurs while he’s eligible for Super Two.

    Since I think he’s ready to at least DH in the majors right now and be the back-up catcher, I guess that means I think it would be unwise for a few months.

  85. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:00 am
    Anthopolus did a great job clearing the last albatross off their payroll. The issue he’s going to have will be convincing good players that they want to come play in Toronto.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I don’t think Anthopolus is going to be a big player for signing older FAs to big contract. Rogers Communications (owners) saw the folly of investing in liong-term deals with Rios, Wells., BJ Ryan, and Rolen. I believe they will be big on developing from within…more like the Rays model

  86. West Coast Yankee Fan January 26th, 2011 at 11:13 am

    As high as Montero’s “projected” ceiling is though, he could just as easily develop into a .270 hitter who gives you 18 home runs and 75 RBI’s in the big leagues with average catching skills. That’s the thing with highly rated prospects, or any prospect for that matter, you never know.

  87. LGY January 26th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    What day is it?

    I could have sworn randy posted that same exact thing 2 weeks ago and that Chip vowed to stop reading Wave’s posts.

  88. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2011 at 11:10 am
    “Screw Super Two – he should be in the majors the minute he proves he is ready to play in the majors.”

    Unwise if that minute occurs while he’s eligible for Super Two.

    Since I think he’s ready to at least DH in the majors right now and be the back-up catcher, I guess that means I think it would be unwise for a few months.

    —————————–

    IMNSHO -

    Let teams like the Royals, Pirates, Indians, Marlins worry about the Super Two status of their players. If Montero’s ready and the Yankees have a role for him that makes sense then he should open with the club.

    On the flip side, if he struggles this spring and early on in the season then his Super Two status expiring should not be the key factor in calling him up.

  89. pat January 26th, 2011 at 11:16 am

    “Michael Young loves Texas and will not approve a trade. He has complete no-trade rights and won?t waive them.”

    He would be tough to move with the contract but his 10/5 protection doesn’t kick in for a few more months so he could be moved without his permission.

  90. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:18 am

    BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 11:12 am
    Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:00 am
    Anthopolus did a great job clearing the last albatross off their payroll. The issue he’s going to have will be convincing good players that they want to come play in Toronto.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I don’t think Anthopolus is going to be a big player for signing older FAs to big contract. Rogers Communications (owners) saw the folly of investing in liong-term deals with Rios, Wells., BJ Ryan, and Rolen. I believe they will be big on developing from within…more like the Rays model

    ————————-

    Possibly the way they’ll go.

    I still think that team needs to improve a lot defensively before it can be taken too seriously, but overall there are no easy outs in the AL East this year.

    Between Toronto’s pitching and Baltimore’s lineup it’s going to be a rough stretch for the Yankees and Red Sox.

  91. YankeesNmore January 26th, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Injuries happen, ESPECIALLY to pitchers.

    Every GM in history looks better if you do the injury what-if.

    Bottom line: Cashman spends WAY more than any GM in history and the Yankees currently have FOUR question marks in their starting rotation.

    Cashman is both responsible and accountable for that.

  92. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 11:18 am

    sj44-

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/t...../league/al

    the yankees and oakland have been remarkably close on the road with overall pitching for the past five years. oakland looks like they have a slight edge.

    the problem with this comparison is the the yankee pitching payroll is probably two -three times as much as the a’s payroll.

    i do agree the oakland fouled territory lowers the home eras of the a’s.
    the yankees don’t get as much bang for their buck as the a’s do .

  93. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2011 at 11:18 am

    “Let teams like the Royals, Pirates, Indians, Marlins worry about the Super Two status of their players. If Montero’s ready and the Yankees have a role for him that makes sense then he should open with the club.”

    Like I said, that would be a stupid move on the Yanks part. Two months could cost a year and a ton of money down the road, maybe even deprive the Yanks of his services early.

    Hey, LGY reminded me, you promised to stop replying to my posts.

  94. LGY January 26th, 2011 at 11:19 am

    “As high as Montero’s “projected” ceiling is though, he could just as easily develop into a .270 hitter who gives you 18 home runs and 75 RBI’s in the big leagues with average catching skills. That’s the thing with highly rated prospects, or any prospect for that matter, you never know.”

    —————————-

    This would infer that every single prospect is a complete crapshoot, which is not true. Someone as talented as Montero is much more likely to reach his ceiling than someone less talented. It is a possibility he becomes an average major leaguer, but it is not just a flip of the coin.

    Btw, only 4 catchers in baseball hit 20 or more HR last year. 18 HR is good out of the catching position.

  95. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 11:20 am

    “…the Yankees currently have FOUR question marks in their starting rotation.”

    sabathia and hughes are pretty solid. let’s not get crazy here.

  96. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Given what arbitration awards have been the last few years, if you can avoid Super Two status with a guy like Montero, you do it.

    Frankly, the money argument is old.

    Billy Beane has spent a lot of money the last few years and spent it poorly.

    He also traded away Carlos Gonzalez for nothing.

    If Brian Cashman ever traded a talent like Gonzalez away and got so little in return, folks would lose their minds.

    Blake,

    I don’t think the Mariners will trade him unless he asks for a trade.

    I think they will continue to try and build around him.

  97. BIG AL January 26th, 2011 at 11:21 am

    Randy L. -

    I guess when you don’t like the question, you resort to insults, and I never thought you were that type of person.

    My point is there are several teams that develope good pitching, but, not championship teams. Winning a WS takes a good 25 man roster, and as I’m sure you’re aware, pitching is only one part of success, the others being offense, defense and a strong BP.

    The Yankees have managed to win championships because their overall balance was much better than the competition, and they were not one dimensional, as are the A’s.

    You can point to all the teams with better pitching than the Yankees, but, you can’t include those teams as being a better TEAM.

  98. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2011 at 11:22 am

    “sabathia and hughes are pretty solid. let’s not get crazy here.”

    I think Hughes rates at least a small question mark until he has more of a track record as a starter.

  99. joeman January 26th, 2011 at 11:22 am

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 26th, 2011 at 11:13 am
    As high as Montero’s “projected” ceiling is though, he could just as easily develop into a .270 hitter who gives you 18 home runs and 75 RBI’s in the big leagues with average catching skills. That’s the thing with highly rated prospects, or any prospect for that matter, you never know
    ————————————————–
    WCYF….given his 500+ AB’s have to believe his HR’& RBI’s will be better than that..But like you said you never know until they get to the bigs

  100. Tom in N.J. January 26th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    .270 with 18 home runs from a catcher is a bad thing?

  101. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 11:24 am

    “I could have sworn randy posted that same exact thing 2 weeks ago”

    lgy-

    the really amazing thing is while you were still down on the farm at river ave blues before you came up to the big blog, i was saying the same thing about cashman in spring 2008.

  102. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:24 am

    YankeesNmore January 26th, 2011 at 11:18 am
    Injuries happen, ESPECIALLY to pitchers.

    Every GM in history looks better if you do the injury what-if.

    Bottom line: Cashman spends WAY more than any GM in history and the Yankees currently have FOUR question marks in their starting rotation.

    Cashman is both responsible and accountable for that.

    ————————

    Money doesn’t ensure success. If it did then the Mets, Yankees, Red Sox and Phillies would be the best four teams year after year after year.

    All any GM can do is make the best guesses with the information available. That doesn’t always pan out.

    The Yankees missed out on Cliff Lee – had they signed him is there any promise that Lee wasn’t going to get hurt?

    Had the Yankees traded for Johan Santana and given up Phil Hughes in the deal – given what’s happened to Johan since – we would be calling for Cashman’s scalp over that.

    The only way you’re going to see a perfect GM is on a video game where trades and signings that don’t work out can be erased by hitting the reset button.

  103. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 11:25 am

    The A’s play in an easier division, yet don’t win.

    Their farm system, supposedly Beane’s strength, is middle of the pack at best.

    They aren’t really getting much bang for their buck.

    Especially when you consider they traded a cost controlled, franchise talent for Gonzalez and got little in return.

  104. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 11:26 am

    I think Hughes rates at least a small question mark until he has more of a track record as a starter.”

    wave your hat-

    i look at hughes as a three so he’s pretty solid for that i think.

    i expect him to have better peripherals this year, but a worse won loss record ( he was lucky to get 18 wins last year).

    i agree though that he’s not a lock the way sabathia is, but he’s damn good for 24 years old.

  105. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 11:28 am

    sj44-

    i’m talking about pitching only.

    the a’s have done a remarkable job with the money they have with pitching.

    tha yankees haven’t.

  106. 86w183 January 26th, 2011 at 11:29 am

    Just for grins…..

    Last year, Gio Gonzalez 2.56 at home, 3.92 on the road

    Last year, Trevor Cahill 2.18 at home, 3.86 on the road

    Pat —- You are correct, sorta. Young can be traded, but only to 8 teams and I have no idea which 8 teams they are, but considering he doesn’t want to go anywhere they are probably division rivals and low payroll teams that would never take on a contract like his

    Randy — Enough about the $$$$ it’s old, tired and irrelevant unless you are aware of some change to the economics of baseball the rest of us aren’t aware of. The Yanks are not trying to compete on a low budget and Oakland is — or was until this off season. They have differing missions and differing priorities and you insist on grading the Yankees on the Oakland priority scale. The Yanks would prefer to be “graded” on their priorities which are wins, post season appearances and championships.

  107. BIG AL January 26th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 26th, 2011 at 11:13 am
    As high as Montero’s “projected” ceiling is though, he could just as easily develop into a .270 hitter who gives you 18 home runs and 75 RBI’s in the big leagues with average catching skills. That’s the thing with highly rated prospects, or any prospect for that matter, you never know.

    *******************************************
    So what you’re saying, he could fail, and develope into another Posada.

  108. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 11:33 am

    “I guess when you don’t like the question, you resort to insults, and I never thought you were that type of person.”

    big al-

    have you ever seen me and gb7 go after each other with name calling ?

    it was a joke.

    but don’t worry, i’ll tell gb7 not to hurt your feelings either :)

  109. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:38 am

    SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 11:25 am
    The A’s play in an easier division, yet don’t win.

    Their farm system, supposedly Beane’s strength, is middle of the pack at best.

    They aren’t really getting much bang for their buck.

    Especially when you consider they traded a cost controlled, franchise talent for Gonzalez and got little in return.

    ——————————–

    Beane gets way too much credit for having a marginally talented team.

  110. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:40 am

    randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 11:28 am
    sj44-

    i’m talking about pitching only.

    the a’s have done a remarkable job with the money they have with pitching.

    tha yankees haven’t.

    ——————

    The A’s play in one of the largest home parks in baseball – that tends to help their pitching – they are the Padres of the American League.

  111. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 11:40 am

    Randy,

    Put the A’s pitching staff in the AL East and get back to me re: how much bang they get for the buck.

    The name of the game is winning and the don’t win.

    Re: bang for the buck………

    The Yankees payroll makes up approx 33% of their overall revenue. That will put them between 10-12 in the rankings this year.

    The Twins and Red Sox for example will top 40% of their payroll against revenues.

    One could argue, the Yankees get “more bang for their buck” than you think.

  112. BIG AL January 26th, 2011 at 11:40 am

    Randy L. -

    Not to worry, GB7 and I have fun going back and forth, and I’m not thin skinned, and you haven’t hurt my feelings.

    But, since you didn’t respond to the rest of the post, I assume you have no retort to that part, or SJ44′s points about Beane.

    Perhaps, one day you’ll stop yearning for the other teams ability to develope pitching at a lower cost, and truly appreciate the job the Yankees do, regardless of cost, at putting winning teams on the field, tear after year.

    Later, go to go for a bit.

  113. Pat M. January 26th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    Randy I ( The Original Tin Cup )….As for Phil Hughes, as you know there are a few here who do not share your opinion about the 24 year old right hander….Unless he develops 5 pitch repertoire he’ll never get any better……I can see him taking things to the next level as far as advancing his pitching OQ…….I see him winning 16-17 games simply because the bullpen is so much deeper……As you pointed out his overall stats should improve in 2011…..

  114. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    “Enough about the $$$$ it’s old, tired and irrelevant unless you are aware of some change to the economics of baseball the rest of us aren’t aware of.”

    86w183-

    so you think it’s a real challenge to spend 70 million a year on pitching to compete with a team like the a’s spending about 15 million?

    what’s tiring is people not having higher expectations for spending so much.

  115. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 11:45 am

    pat m-

    i think hughes will likely be a btter pitcher and have a better year, but less wins.

  116. randy l. January 26th, 2011 at 11:47 am

    “But, since you didn’t respond to the rest of the post, I assume you have no retort to that part, or SJ44?s points about Beane.”

    big al-

    just because someone doesn’t respond, it doesn’t mean they don’t have a retort.

    there’s this thing called having a life.

    …which is calling right now.

  117. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    Bartolo Colon in pinstripes…

  118. YankeesNmore January 26th, 2011 at 11:50 am

    GOOD GOD! Brian Cashman just signed Bartolo Colon.

    Anybody know how to build a Flux Capacitor?

  119. ac1 January 26th, 2011 at 11:50 am

    Colon? hahahahaha. he and igawa will be a nice 1-2 in scranton. please come back andy pettitte… pleaseeeeeeeee.

  120. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2011 at 11:49 am
    Bartolo Colon in pinstripes…

    ————–

    They are slimming

  121. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:52 am

    I’m starting to believe the guy who said that the Yankee scouts only get ESPN Classic.

  122. West Coast Yankee Fan January 26th, 2011 at 11:53 am

    joeman January 26th, 2011 at 11:22 am

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 26th, 2011 at 11:13 am
    As high as Montero’s “projected” ceiling is though, he could just as easily develop into a .270 hitter who gives you 18 home runs and 75 RBI’s in the big leagues with average catching skills. That’s the thing with highly rated prospects, or any prospect for that matter, you never know
    ————————————————–
    WCYF….given his 500+ AB’s have to believe his HR’& RBI’s will be better than that..But like you said you never know until they get to the bigs

    *******************

    One can only hope so.There are so many highly touted draft picks and prospects that bomb or have average careers at the major league level. I personally think that won’t be the case with Montero, but one just has to wait and see.

  123. DocTodd January 26th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    YES!!! Cashman implementing plan B!

  124. Wave Your Hat January 26th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    “They are slimming”

    LOL

  125. joeman January 26th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Bartolo Colon

    Position: Pitcher
    Bats: Right, Throws: Right
    Height: 6′ 0″, Weight: 185 lb.

    Born: May 24, 1973 in Altamira, Puerto Plata, D.R. (Age 37)

    ————————————————–
    last time he was 185 was high school

  126. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    YankeesNmore January 26th, 2011 at 11:50 am
    GOOD GOD! Brian Cashman just signed Bartolo Colon.

    Anybody know how to build a Flux Capacitor?

    —————–

    Oh come on – take it for what it is – a minor league contract.

  127. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 11:56 am

    To me, you can’t have it both ways.

    If you want to develop “young pitching”, be prepared to lose for a few years because young guys take their lumps A’s they learn to pitch at the major league level.

    When I say “lose”, I mean missing the playoffs.

    You also have no guarantee all these young guys you develop will succeed long term at the ML level.

    2 1/2 years ago, many people thought Scott Kazmir was one of the best young pitchers in the game.

    Now? A shell of his former self.

    The Yankees don’t have a business model that allows them to become the Royals, or Mets for that matter.

    They can’t stink the joint out, miss the playoffs year after year, and tell their fans to “be patient” and sleep with their Baseball Americas snuggled up next to them telling them how “close” they are to being relevant again.

    The Yankees have to walk that fine line and it’s tough to do.

    Instead of excoriating everything they do, A’s some do daily, perhaps it’s more prudent to step back and recognize the challenges they face and evaluate them with a little more balance.

  128. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    joeman January 26th, 2011 at 11:54 am
    Bartolo Colon

    Position: Pitcher
    Bats: Right, Throws: Right
    Height: 6? 0?, Weight: 185 lb.

    Born: May 24, 1973 in Altamira, Puerto Plata, D.R. (Age 37)

    ————————————————–
    last time he was 185 was high school

    ————————–

    next time make sure he has both feet on the scale

  129. Mike Ri January 26th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    So we signed Colon
    … hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm oh well

  130. West Coast Yankee Fan January 26th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    If Cashman wants to sign a bunch of retreads like Colon to minor league deals I have no issue with it. They are not going to hurt the club and just maybe you’ll catch one of these guys having a little gas left in the tank.

  131. DocTodd January 26th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Bart & Joba can hit the buffet!!!

  132. upstate kate January 26th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    and in truly sad news, Rocco Baldelli is retiring…what a shame to have a promising career cut short

  133. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    I don’t think a minor league deal with an invite to ST is something to get up in arms over.

  134. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:59 am

    SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 11:56 am
    To me, you can’t have it both ways.

    If you want to develop “young pitching”, be prepared to lose for a few years because young guys take their lumps A’s they learn to pitch at the major league level.

    When I say “lose”, I mean missing the playoffs.

    You also have no guarantee all these young guys you develop will succeed long term at the ML level.

    2 1/2 years ago, many people thought Scott Kazmir was one of the best young pitchers in the game.

    Now? A shell of his former self.

    The Yankees don’t have a business model that allows them to become the Royals, or Mets for that matter.

    They can’t stink the joint out, miss the playoffs year after year, and tell their fans to “be patient” and sleep with their Baseball Americas snuggled up next to them telling them how “close” they are to being relevant again.

    The Yankees have to walk that fine line and it’s tough to do.

    Instead of excoriating everything they do, A’s some do daily, perhaps it’s more prudent to step back and recognize the challenges they face and evaluate them with a little more balance.

    ————————–

    This is why I shake my head when people say that the Yankees should build a team like Tampa did.

    They seem to forget that to amass all the talented young players that Tampa now boasts they had to first be the laughingstocks of MLB for a long time. Getting lots and lots of high draft picks and then waiting for those guys to develop.

  135. ac1 January 26th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    it’s not but its just funny to think about. I still believe that Andy will be back and that one of the kids will really step up his game in ST. (Warren and Phelps the likely possibilies), and the hopes that Cashman works his mid-season magic and gets us the back up ace we want at the top with CC.

  136. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    Chip January 26th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    joeman January 26th, 2011 at 11:54 am
    Bartolo Colon

    Position: Pitcher
    Bats: Right, Throws: Right
    Height: 6? 0?, Weight: 185 lb.
    ++++++++++++
    The 185 lbs was just his colon

  137. pat January 26th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Colon was playing for Tony Pena in winter ball. Ya never know.

  138. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 11:58 am
    I don’t think a minor league deal with an invite to ST is something to get up in arms over.

    ————-

    Not at all – he’ll come in, compete with Mitre and Nova. Best case he shows something and provides a useful arm to the Yankees to open the season and can be replaced before the flash leaves the pan.

    Worst case he’s a disaster in spring training and doesn’t make the club.

    Either way it’s not a big deal.

  139. Mike Ri January 26th, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    He can’t be any-worse than MEAT TRAY

  140. Mike Ri January 26th, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    New Thread

  141. BoJo January 26th, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    All they had to do to get him to come to ST trial was say the two magic little words “free buffet.”

  142. Chip January 26th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    From a MLBTraderumors posting earlier this winter:

    After signing with the White Sox in January 2009, Colon was effective through 19 starts, pitching to a 4.19 ERA before a knee injury ended his season in July. He said he has devoted the ensuing year to training in the Domincan Republic, and he claims to be throwing pain-free at his customary “full velocity.”

    Over the ensuing month of winter ball, he has continued to look impressive, managing a 1.47 ERA over his seven starts in the Domincan League’s regular season for the Aguilas Cibaeñas.

    The 50-game Dominican regular season has ended and Colon’s team’s season is over, but the right-hander was the first player selected overall in the postseason draft, and went to the reigning champion Leones del Escogido (in the Dominican winter league, postseason teams are allowed to draft from among the eliminated teams’ rosters). In his one postseason start with the Leones, Colon avoided the loss but wasn’t as sharp, giving up four runs on 12 hits in 5 2/3 innings.

  143. blake January 26th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    SJ,

    Thanks for the response

  144. West Coast Yankee Fan January 26th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    High draft picks help but “good picks” matter more.

    Don Mattingly (19th round)
    Keith Hernandez (42nd round)
    Ken Griffey Sr. (29th round)
    Jorge Posada (24th round)
    Andre Dawson (11th round)
    Albert Pujols (13th round)
    Mike Piazza (62nd round)
    Jim Thome (13th round)
    Kenny Rogers (39th round)
    Orel Hershiser (17th round
    Mark Grace (24th round)

  145. YankeesNmore January 26th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    Quick question for the Cashman defenders and magic bean believers…

    If what the Yankees have in the minors (Phelps, B’s, etc…) is as good and/or close as Cashman would have us believe, why would he be wasting his time with a guy like Bartolo Colon???

  146. SJ44 January 26th, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    That’s simple to answer.

    Because it doesn’t cost anything to invite a veteran arm to ST to see if he has anything left.

    He played for Tony Pena this winter.

    I’m sure Tony recommended he give him a shot and see what happens.

    If kids like Phelps and/or Warren show they are ready now, all the better.

    If they aren’t yet ready to assume a spot in the rotation, they don’t have to be rushed.

    It’s a no risk transaction.

  147. Pat M. January 26th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    SJ…….Winning every season and making postseason appearances yearly while retooling is a very tricky thing…….Very few teams in the history of professional sports can pull it off….

Leave a comment below


Sponsored by:
 

Search

    Advertisement

    Follow

    Mobile

    Read The LoHud Yankees Blog on the go by navigating to the blog on your smartphone or mobile device's browser. No apps or downloads are required.

Advertisement

Place an ad

Call (914) 694-3581