Optimism, whatever that’s worth
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 28, 2011 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Yesterday, Jim Baumbach used the word “optimism” to describe the Yankees feelings toward Andy Pettitte.
There is a growing optimism within the Yankees that Andy Pettitte will decide to pitch this season, according to two people familiar with the situation.
Today, Jon Heyman said the same thing.
Yankees people seem a bit more optimistic in recent days. That optimism dates back to several days ago when they learned Pettitte was conducting his usual January workouts.
This after Brian Cashman’s public statements on Wednesday night, saying there was absolutely nothing new to report about Pettitte. Reports of optimism also came 10 days after the Yankees were reportedly growing less optimistic about Pettitte. Cashman keeps saying that he’s moving forward with the belief that Pettitte will not pitch in 2011, and that he feels no need to push Pettitte for a definitive answer.
So what’s optimism worth right now?
It’s probably worth a little bit. Cashman has been in steady contact with Pettitte, and Pettitte reportedly has been working out at home in Texas. Those seem to be good signs — why workout and stay in contact if returning isn’t at least a consideration? — but those things certainly don’t mean anything has been decided.
Optimism is good, but until Pettitte makes an absolute decision, we’re all going to be left guessing.
I’ve always been optimistic he is going to come back.
If he knew he wanted to retire, he would have done it already. He’s giving himself all this time because he’s being convinced more and more to come back as the days pass by.
He will return.
Pettitte working out to be in baseball shape, as first reported here by me, has led me to believe he would return. I don’t doubt it now.
“Hey I like Brett Gardner however he’s blessed with incredible speed which bails him out when he makes mistakes….”
——————
Pat M
Why does it matter though.
If for example he makes a bad read, but he is so fast he catches it anyway who cares? Not how you get there, but catching the ball is all that matters right?
Somehow, with as long as this has gone on, and the various sources saying there is optimism, it just makes me think of the “optimism” of the beautiful ladies still being in the bar in the wee hours, after of course the obligatory dozen six packs.
I’d be thrilled for Pettitte to come back, but I think it far better to just figure him done and be pleasantly surprised if he comes back over having any hope that he is returning for a farewell tour.
As said yesterday, if Andy is going through his normal offseason work routine, he should be able to arrive in Tampa on Feb. 12, get settled in, get his physical like all other pitchers and catchers on Feb. 14 and join everybody for 1st workouts on Feb. 15.
Jerkface January 28th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
I’d rather get DIPS with your mother.
****************
Classy.
I have always expected Andy to return in 2011. Just announce it officially already.
But that is the point, good as he is, Gardner sometimes doesn’t get to the ball when he could.
LGY…..Because when he does misread balls and he does especially balls over his head his speed cannot atone for them and those balls tend to lead to extra bases…..Those are the reads that a good outfielder makes…….Face as for your last comment about Cano and HR’S is a less than valiant response in my eyes……..The dude can flash leather to a high degree however he’ll need to improve on fundamentals if you wants to be outrage free when Gold Rawlings are given out by the eyes who vote …..And those eyes need to see a resume that is longer than a few games……It’s not a perfect science however over the decades it’s the standard….Coaching staffs are a pretty good judge of talent I would say……40 years in the gane has to have some credibility, no ???/
“And bodhisvatta was a gardner-hater who thought melky was the second coming.”
Not accurate. Bodhi never “hated” Gardner, he thought Melky should start instead of Gardner (me too). He defended Melky against against accusations that were similar in nature to what was thrown at Cano. IMO he was a very good poster who got sick of the bull and decided to stop posting. I for one miss his posts.
I was just want to add a couple of things about stats, especially defensive stats.
I know Jerk will correct me if I am wrong, but all these stats are compiled by actual people watching the games.
There are no computers that record what zone a ball was hit, or how hard, or weather the player got a good jump or not, where he was positioned or…….
It is people like us (I assume ) watching games and taking notes and feeding this info to Fangraphs or whoever. These people are using thier “eyes” to make judgement calls that are later cataloged as facts.
I like the idea of compiling lots of info and comparing apples to apples.
But I will not take as gospel some unknown anonymous compiler stats, just because of the sheer weight of data. Garbage in- garbage out.
So If the data does not compute with what I see, why should I believe some goofball watching the game, is more accurate than me (I am also a goofball).
BTW here is a link to some of the Compilers ( is that a word?).
http://www.baseballinfosolutions.com/ourteam.html
BTW here is a link to some of the Compilers ( is that a word?).
http://www.baseballinfosolutions.com/ourteam.html
–
Those aren’t the compilers, they just work for BIS. I know one of the compilers who is a former pitching prospect that charted pitches for BIS last season. None of these systems are perfect, but I trust a guy who is paid to accurately chart the games against someone who isn’t charting at all.
LGY…..Because when he does misread balls and he does especially balls over his head his speed cannot atone for them and those balls tend to lead to extra bases…..Those are the reads that a good outfielder makes…….Face as for your last comment about Cano and HR’S is a less than valiant response in my eyes……..The dude can flash leather to a high degree however he’ll need to improve on fundamentals if you wants to be outrage free when Gold Rawlings are given out by the eyes who vote …..And those eyes need to see a resume that is longer than a few games……It’s not a perfect science however over the decades it’s the standard….Coaching staffs are a pretty good judge of talent I would say……40 years in the gane has to have some credibility, no ???/
–
Its all moot if the good outfielder doesn’t get to the same amount of balls as Gardner does. Its still a hit. Its still not an out. And if Gardner makes more plays than other fielders he is rightfully better, no matter what his reads do. That is the point. There is no perfect fielder. No one makes the correct reads 100% of the time and even someone who theoretically might isn’t going to have the speed to get the ball every time.
And sorry but you did not just advocate gold gloves as being some kind of methodically sound system. There is way more evidence against.
Right, Tar. I was also going to address FSR earlier, which is a valid point. WE have no idea who is compiling said info.
Another important point with UZR is it is not field specific. Therefore, if a fielder plays in a field with a limited range and therefore doesn’t have the breadth of field to cover that another stadium has, the fielder is essentially penalized for lack of range solely based on having a smaller outfield area to cover.
Does Curtis Granderson get to those fly balls that Gardner misplays?
Does Gardner get to balls that Curtis doesn’t?
I do appreciate the win-win nature of this choice.
Not accurate. Bodhi never “hated” Gardner, he thought Melky should start instead of Gardner (me too). He defended Melky against against accusations that were similar in nature to what was thrown at Cano. IMO he was a very good poster who got sick of the bull and decided to stop posting. I for one miss his posts.
–
I think it is accurate, his stance on Gardner was that he would eventually fail. I think that qualifies as a hater. He was never cheering for Gardner to succeed, but for Melky to eventually replace him.
Why does Andy play this mind game with the fans. I’m sure he will bypass his “family” again for the 12 plus million he will earn. Oh yes the family considerations…his other half must rhyme with witch?
LGY,
another reason is because speed doesn’t last forever and Gardner is already 27….as I said earlier, he made a believer of me in 2010 but I still want to see how he adjusts to the league having more extensive scouting reports on him. I loved what he did last year but for me a final grade on him as a player would still be incomplete due to injury concerns and lack of track record at the big league level…..I am pulling for him to prove that he is what he was last year or even better.
“Good luck Brett against those MLB breaking pitches. Be ready Melky.”
–
This is not a statement in straight support of simply Melky over Gardner, it has a sour tinge against Gardner’s abilities as a player.
# yankeefeminista January 28th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
But that is the point, good as he is, Gardner sometimes doesn’t get to the ball when he could.
—
More often than not, he gets to the ball when nobody else could.
Fortunately this hasn’t slowed Cashman at all in his aggressive pursuit to find a suitable replacement for Sergio Mitre. Full speed ahead adding depth to the rotation.
The Melkman thrived in da Bronx fuhgetabout it. Now’s the time to bring back Melky and resurrect the clutch hitting that was missing in the playoffs.
cgrand14 come home today. I’ve had fun, and it was good for me to train in warm weather running, throwing, hitting. Now time to get to FL
cgrand14 despite a certain media report this morning, everything I did in New Zealand was of the safest measures and with baseball first in mind
cgrand14 a video of me sitting in the driver’s seat of an idle bike does not mean I drove it. I’ve never driven a bike. Wouldn’t know how to start
another reason is because speed doesn’t last forever and Gardner is already 27….as I said earlier, he made a believer of me in 2010 but I still want to see how he adjusts to the league having more extensive scouting reports on him.
–
When Gardner’s speed goes and he is no longer a good player we will know, just like we knew with Bernie, and I will no longer advocate for Gardner to start. No one is saying sign Gardner for 10 years or anything where his eventual loss of speed should somehow be taken into account in our arguments. Though for Brett, by the time his speed does go he should be able to make up for it in experience, which is what happens to good players and what Branch Rickey always said.
And he had 2 years worth of scouting reports as well as minor league reports from his years below in 2010 and pitchers couldn’t stop him from walking. No amount of scouting going forward is going to help pitchers throw strikes consistently.
Also….this may be Randy Levine’s shining moment. I loved what he said and he’s right……keep your Rangers from receiving handouts for awhile and then talk..
Bodhisatva had/has some good taste in music.
(which means he liked some of the same things I like)
# Melkmanisinhotlanta January 28th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
“Now’s the time to bring back Melky and resurrect the clutch hitting that was missing in the playoffs.”
———-
With this?
http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/indiv.....rID=466320
Tar,
I don’t want to get into this, but he who shall not be named was definitely a Gardner hater to the point that he disgustingly accused me and others on this blog of being racist for wanting Gardner to get a shot, for seeing the flaws in Melky’s game and for not having the critical eye to believe Melky was a budding Bernie Williams.
Melky played himself back to the minors after being handed a job here in 2008. He bounced back in 2009 and helped win a title, but was never the player he was being made out to be by some on this blog.
All some of us wanted was for Gardner to be given a chance because of his obvious speed which the lineup lacked yet we were demeaned and told we liked the player because of his ethnicity.
That kind of posting will never be missed.
People, myself included, were down on Cano and Melky because the press and unnamed sources were leaking info all over the place about how serious they were not taking the game and the fact that they partied hard together. A friend of mine saw them in clubs constantly together burning the candle at both ends late nights before day games. It was an explanation given for why the two of them were struggling so badly in 2008.
And it really didn’t help Melky at all that the season he gets traded Cano walks out and has one of the best seasons I’ve ever seen a Yankee have while Melky struggled in Atlanta.
I’ve admitted I was wrong for wanting to trade Cano for Kemp and not thinking he’d mature to the point that he took the game as seriously as he now does. If the Yankees had reacted and dealt him they’d regret it for a long time.
However, some people never had the ability to come back and admit that calling decent people racists on a blog because they liked a player was wrong of them to do.
Gossip Break (or as Bronx Jeers calls it-The A-Rod Report)
http://snarkfood.com/cameron-d.....ce/310386/
“everything I did in New Zealand was of the safest measures and with baseball first in mind”
Very tempted to make a blue joke about this. Ughghghhghghhgg
Great comments from Hank in the Post the other day. Refreshing to read candid unrehearsed thoughts.
11 CF January 28th, 2011 at 3:15 pm
# yankeefeminista January 28th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
But that is the point, good as he is, Gardner sometimes doesn’t get to the ball when he could.
—
More often than not, he gets to the ball when nobody else could.
____
I would agree in LF. However, I wouldn’t in CF, considering the range of many CF’ers. However, I wouldn’t disagree that he has made some amazing plays. Yet, I think he has deficiencies in CF. I have seen most of his games in NY, whether that holds credence with this group or not. Still a very good defender. Let’s just leave it at that.
G. Love hit the nail on the head there. I was one of those accused.
Nick-
“But that is the point, good as he is, Gardner sometimes doesn’t get to the ball when he could.”
————-
This is true of every player in baseball.
Bodhisattva was against Gardner and Swisher, and thus he is my enemy for all eternity. He wanted Melky to start over Swisher. Just silly.
Istill think Randy Levine is a hump, but I did ebjoy the shots across the bow today
Jerkface,
All Im saying is that a lot of Gardner’s ability is tied up in his speed…..its the reason he can make up for bad jumps, reads, etc. That’s why those things do matter, because of when the speed starts to go. Also, minor league scouting reports aren’t as telling because those can’t make the pitches that big leaguers can….I do think pitchers are going to be making special efforts not to walk him next year, especially if he leads off. I think every pitching coach is going to say pre-game that Gardner is going to take pitches…..go right after him, we’ll see what Brett does with it.
Will there still be laughter and smiles if the phrase ‘grateful sheep’ is part of the punchline?
Nick in SF January 28th, 2011 at 3:24 pm
Will there still be laughter and smiles if the phrase ?grateful sheep? is part of the punchline?
************************
In that case…… probably not.
I do think pitchers are going to be making special efforts not to walk him next year, especially if he leads off. I think every pitching coach is going to say pre-game that Gardner is going to take pitches…..go right after him, we’ll see what Brett does with it.
–
I’ll tell you what Brett does with it, lead the league in foul balls and have a 90+% contact ratio. And still walk 70+ times. you think pitchers last year didn’t understand brett gardner? Do you think they are preparing all winter their brett gardner defense? “Oh you got me good last year, Brett, but not again, not this year, I’m saving up all my strikes for you, boy.”
I just think that kind of thinking doesn’t fly. Gardner’s patience combined with his ability to make contact is amazing. It isn’t exploitable by pitchers. If it was, they would have done it last year.
And decline in speed doesn’t matter in any context in these discussion because the speed hasn’t started to go and won’t start to go for who knows how long. He could be Juan Pierre or someone who keeps his speed late into his years. Unless your argument is that it has already started to go, or is already not elite, or whatever then I just don’t think there is room in the discussion.
IMO-Andy is looking for a sign from above regarding whether or not he should retire.
I don’t find it all that unusual to read Andy is working out, throwing the ball and keeping in touch via telephone with the Yankees.
I happen to think that while working out and tossing the ball around, Andy is searching for a clear sign, a clear indication that he still has the desire to dedicate himself to another year of
taking the mound.
Does everyone forget that Brett hadn’t missed a pitch he swung at in the strikezone until the end of may?
Pat M – I responded to you on the last page, its a big wallotext so i dont wanna drag it out here.
I think in his heart Andy wants one more shot at it, but he wants to first see how his body is responding to the pre-ST regimen that he has been doing all these years before deciding if 2011 is a “go” or “no go”.
I dont think anyone here really knows for sure just how much he was truly hurting at the end of last year. In recent weeks it has come out that he was hurt during the ALCS and that was the reason Girardi held him back until Game 3 after he started him in Game 2 in the ALDS against the Twins. Didn’t Girardi recently say that if the Yankees had pushed the ALCS to Game 7, he wasn’t sure if Andy would be able to make the start because of his back issues?
So maybe it really isnt the diva act afterall … maybe Andy really wants to help this team as he always has and anything short of that he feels would be a diservice to everyone.
Jerkface,
Was Gardner’s fade in the 2nd half all injury related or at least partially from pitchers making those adjustments? I don’t know but I did notice him being pounded inside more in the 2nd half. His OPS fell over .100 points in the 2nd half and his BA was down to .232 for the 2nd half……now of course it may have been the wrist but I don’t don’t think we can conclude it all was.
while i have been saying all along that i am optimistic will come back at some point, i’m not going to get any more optimistic just because somebody says that somebody says.
to me the determining factor was and is always going to be andy’s body. how much rest would he need, how would he feel when he started throwing and would anything come along to stop him from working out.
thats still pretty much the case.
but on the other hand, i think we have to limit our expectations about andy. for one thing, foget about 33 starts. not gonna happen. he’s 40 and even if he breaks camp with the yankees, he’s going to miss time. and another thing to bear in mind, any serious injury that comes along during ST or the regular season could end his career right there.
so while i hope he comes back sooner rather than later, its not so much that i think they will get much more out of andy. (i just dont think he has a whole season left in his arm at this point). the reason sooner is better than later is because we are likely to have many more rotation options through trade and/or continued development of young arms than we will early in the season.
still, even if he comes to camp, theres a good chance he will start out slow, maybe even in extended ST so he’s right when he actually starts.
Was Gardner’s fade in the 2nd half all injury related or at least partially from pitchers making those adjustments?
–
Wrist injury, and if you want to give pitchers credit for holding down Brett, consider that his isoD actually INCREASED. Pitchers walked him MORE.
And he put up an above average on base in the 2nd half. Above average against all of baseball.
I hope Andy comes back (no pun intended). He’s a warrior plain and simple and he provides an example to the younger pitchers especially AJ who needs all of the help he can get. With Andy gone, the soul of that staff is gone for a long time.
Erin January 28th, 2011 at 3:18 pm
Gossip Break (or as Bronx Jeers calls it-The A-Rod Report)
http://snarkfood.com/cameron-d…..ce/310386/
———————————
A-Rod should be enjoying France with French girls not Diaz. Well maybe he is doing that too.
Jerkface,
He hit. .232/.364/.330/.694 for the 2nd half. That’s not real good however you slice it. Im playing devil’s advocate here to some degree because as I’ve said I do believe in Brett and think the wrist had a great deal with those numbers…..but I do find it interesting that a numbers guy such as yourself would put so much faith in relatively small sample sizes…..is it because of things you’ve seen with your eyes? If so then ok…..cool
John from NJ sez: Bail out the Mets.
G Love
I do remember the racist argument coming up, I thought it was directed more at the press than any individual poster. but of course you would remember best if someone made a specific accusation against you. If he was still posting here I would hope you two would have put it behind you, and be best buddies, like me and face.
Have to run, the NHL has invaded Raleigh. I am lucky enought to have tickets to everything. Have a good night !
Discourse…..I read your post from the last thread and your points are well taken…I have moved much towards the center of the continental divide since last winter when that topic was a daily event……
He hit. .232/.364/.330/.694 for the 2nd half. That’s not real good however you slice it.
–
If I sliced it in terms of on base it would be real good, what? I believe in Gardner because he has proved at the major league level what he did in his entire pro-career minors->majors. He gets on base, steals, plays great defense, and will bring a .100/.100 isoD/isoP.
If you look back on 2010, Andy pitched very little in ST due to rain & other things. He pitched very little to major leaguer hitters and he got off to a great start. I think this is their plan, do not expose Andy and create a relaxed behind the scenes scenario; pitching at a leisurely pace and try to get 150 innings from him.
Well Patrick, if you consider hours of thoughtful posts on baseball trolling, then I guess we all are. I suspect you just don’t like being called on your anti-Heyman garbage.
—
I criticize Heyman therefore I am a red sox fan. Yeah that makes sense. Idiot
Jerkface,
Hope so and I actually think you’re right…..all Im saying is that he’s only done it for 1/2 a season…..I need to see more before Im 100% sold that he is that player from the first half. ….not only because of the adjustments, I want to see that he can stay healthy.
jackamir -
I do remember last season being one of “if it’s raining it must be a Pettitte start.”
Best line from this article on K. Long and Jeter is that the locals call Jeters’ house “St. Jetersburg”.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01.....1&hpw
Gardner’s wrist injury stopped him from being able to handle good fastballs on the outer half. His batting average dropped nearly .300 points on fastballs middle-away, which before injury he was able to serve over the SS.
http://joelefkowitz.com/pitch.php
Used this tool to get the info, great website.
I don’t understand this argument about Gardner. You can argue the technicalities of UZR, Total Zone, Defensive Runs Saved etc., and how accurate they are in assessing how good a defensive player someone actually is, what you can’t argue is that IN 2010 he was one of the best outfielders in the majors in getting to balls and catching them. People watched and counted. It’s just a fact.
So if Gardner gets bad jumps, which with all due respect (and I mean that) to Pat M I don’t think is true, in 2010 he caught the ball as efficiently as any outfielder in the majors.
@Doreen: not to dredge up an old discussion, but I was just in my car listening to the local sports talk station. One of the hosts was bemoaning the fact that the 49rs kept handing the ball off at the end of the NFC Championship game vs. the Giants in the 1990/91 season.
He said, and I paraphrase: “They weren’t even trying to get a first down, they just wanted to use as much clock as they could and then punt the ball downfield, the Giants were out of time outs, Steve Young could have just taken a knee or tried to scramble with the ball… instead they hand the ball off, Lawrence Taylor breaks through and strips it, and the Giants win the game.”
Clare,
Welcome back.
You need to post more.
We need all the good posters we can muster.
It isn’t so much about what Gardner can do or even can’t do. it’s about what he doesn’t do enough and that’s run. He has an outstanding success rate, but, he’s getting on base over 216 times, not counting reaching base on errors and force outs, with only 32 extra base hits.
Even if he only had an open base at 2nd base in half of those times. he should have been stealing at least 30 more bases, with his speed. he’s a good player, but, his skills are based on speed and he’s not using all of his tools. As far as the remark about him having a better and stronger arm than Granderson, that’s false. What he’s learned to do is be more accurate with the throws than before and getting rid of it faster. Sounds like he went to the same throwing academy as Nick Swisher last year.
Gardner can get on base to a good OBP, but he also has to be able to bring in runs when necessary too. That Texas series was awful, but especially for him. He left small armies on the bases because he couldnt hit the ball. He made it clear his job is to get on base, not to bring in runs, but you still have to be able to hit when runners are on.
That being said, i think he will have a good year, and definitely should be leading off. Just move Jeter back to the 2 hole, since it doesnt appear he will be dropped lower.
Love the article re: K-long, it shows the greatness that can be achieved through sheer physical talent but also the dangers that exist when you ride that talent too long. Jeter had to truly hit the bottom before he realized change was necessary. Hopefully he kills it for 3 years with simpler mechanics.
Doreen January 28th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
jackamir -
I do remember last season being one of ?if it?s raining it must be a Pettitte start.?
*******************************
and then after a while it switched over to CC. lol
I think that Gardner will steal more as he gets more comfortable, but he is already near the top in chances taken.
Gardner stole 23.3% of the time when he was on 1st or 2nd with a base open. I can’t separate out how many times he was on first and a base was open. He was at 27% in 2009. 27% in 2010.
Juan Pierre: 27%
)
Rajai Davis: 32%
Crawford: 21%
Ichiro: 14%
Figgins: 24%
BJ Upton: 29%
Rios: 22%
Andrus: 18%
Coco Crisp: 27%
Podsednik: 27%
Pennington: 16%
Austin Jackson: 11%
Denard Span: 9% (Randy
I hope Gardner can get back to 27% at his customary 84% efficiency, and then try to move up without trading too much of that efficiency.
Thanks SJ! That’s really nice of you.
I have been lurking, and skipping through the comments. I appreciated your insights today on the Sherman article – and I’m always glad to hear about Tony. I’m now in the Pittsburgh area, and I’m planning my first trip to PNC park whenever the Yankees, or Tony, are playing, whichever comes first.
Just read that article about Long and Jeter, very cool.
Why not be optimistic about Pettitte? Each day he doesn’t retire makes it more likely he will return…that is my story and I am sticking to it.
and why not be optimistic in general…its Friday, its payday, it isn’t snowing very hard and it is above zero!!!
@Nick in SF -
After the discussion that night I did a little more reading about “taking a knee.” The next day I did make a comment that I concede that taking a knee is indeed a valid and legitimate play. My last argument with it is how much time has to be left on the clock before taking a knee should be in play. I think a minute or less is fair game. A minute or more, it doesn’t seem “right.”
I sort of see the sense of it. I understand it’s all about controlling the football (and the clock). And if you don’t use the knee play, you run a bigger risk of losing the football.
An-dy Pett-itte, clap-clap clapclapclap.
Clare…..Great seeing you here again……..GB, just watched Bye Bye Birdie which is a very good moving, however the opening and closing clips of Ann Margaret are well,,,Heaven like
“Why not be optimistic about Pettitte? Each day he doesn’t retire makes it more likely he will return…that is my story and I am sticking to it.”
I absoutely agree with you. Every time I hear that Andy is undecided, it just reinforces to me that he is coming back. If Andy was going to retire, he would have known well before now that that is what he was going to do. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it, too!
“and why not be optimistic in general…its Friday, its payday, it isn’t snowing very hard and it is above zero!!!”
I’ll go you one further. If your feet hit the floor this morning, why not be optimistic?
*************
I miss boddy a ton. I think he was a great poster and a real humanitarian. I don’t remember any “hate” coming from him ever. He was difinitive in his opinions, but who isn’t? I wish he’d come back. I understand why he doesn’t.
And I feel about tar the same way I feel about boddy. That would be tar the poster as opposed to tar, the substance.
Great guys.
Clare,
PNC Park is worth a visit. It’s a beautiful ballpark without a bad seat anywhere.
Ideal way to spend a weekend day/night in Pittsburgh……
Day baseball and Italian food at Lidia’s, a short ride from the ballpark.
Best restaurant in the city, IMO.
I don’t remember any “hate” coming from him ever.
–
Who would want to think of someone who they fondly remember as hateful? He took no stake in Gardner’s future success as a yankee, and in fact took quite an opposite stance on him, professing future failure for Gardner. He certainly didn’t like him. It wasn’t hate like a ‘hate crime’.
Pat M. January 28th, 2011 at 4:33 pm
Clare…..Great seeing you here again……..GB, just watched Bye Bye Birdie which is a very good moving, however the opening and closing clips of Ann Margaret are well,,,Heaven like
———————————————————————————————————————-
Pat, Ann-Margret made even bad movies well were watching. It really helps that she was the anti-Jane Fonda. A real pity, because Fonda in her younger days was a close second in looks to ann-Margret and given the chance was a damned fine actress. I just refuse to watch her movies. I went 10 years without watching anything shpwn on a Turner based program.
@Doreen, if the amount of time they can run off the clock by taking a knee in the number of plays they have to do it, between one and three, is enough to end the game, then it’s a no-brainer to take a knee each time, even if there is more than a minute left (the length of the play clock x 3 would be the maximum time that it’s a no-brainer).
If taking a knee will not run out the clock completely, then a little more stategy comes into play: run the clock down as far as possible and then punt, try to get a first down with riskier running plays, try to get a first down with a pass which risks a free clock stoppage if the pass is incomplete (not to mention the risk of INT).
But all of those choices are designed to get to the point when taking a knee can end the game with the least amount of risk.
bad movies well ***worth*** watching
Thanks for the NYT article Clare. Everything to like about Kevin Long’s approach to hitting. Keep it quiet and keep it simple. Less moving parts.
Let’s hope Mark Teixeira buys into it sooner than later. It worked with Granderson and Swisher and should soon see results with Jeter.
Calling bod a Gardner “hater” doesn’t mean he despises Gardner. Just means he was “hating on” Gardner. In other words, when he posted here, bod would unfairly criticize Gardner.
Bodhisatva, or however he spelled it, was a net positive. He liked some guys better than others but so what. I don’t recall him as tiresome or insulting to anyone.
New fangled lingo can be confusing in meaning and application.
Bodhisatva, or however he spelled it, was a net positive. He liked some guys better than others but so what. I don’t recall him as tiresome or insulting to anyone.
–
No one is saying good riddance. I just brought him up in the past few days because he would use the same arguments that are being tossed around lately to pan gardner. Suggesting that any of his defensive prowess was only because of his speed, etc. He had some very long and well documented discussions re: Melky vs Gardner, so I thought posters I was engaging would remember and understand the point.
So Craig Calcaterra just rushed to Chuck Greenberg’s aid in dealing with big, bad Randy Levine.
And what’s with the stuff about revenue sharing? I can’t help but think that Levine is going to get a call from Selig over that. Levine may not like it, but revenue sharing is part of baseball’s architecture. It is designed to aid teams that were not, like Levine’s Yankees, blessed with a monopoly over the largest media market in the country.
What monopoly is he referring to?
@Nick in SF -
That makes sense.
Bod was a very fine poster…Hope he returns for the upcoming season…
Lots of posters predict failure for different Yankee players. Heck the failure prediction changes per game. I’ve seen lots of discussion here where people will go gaga over their favorite player and predict nothing but great things. I seem to remember having done that myself with one Francisco Cervelli. It was done in good faith. I too was crazy about Da Melk. I hated that he left. But it was never to the exclusion of Gardner. People see positives in different players.
But it was never to the exclusion of Gardner.
–
Bodi most certainly cheered Melky to the exclusion of Gardner.
I just read Chuck Greenberg’s comments. Why they would torque off Randy Levine completely escapes me.
Loved that Kevin Long article too.
I see that the Wilpons are asking for limited owners for a fast cash infusion with the Wilpons retaining majority ownership. I think that the same thing once said about George Steinbrenner will be said about the Wilpons: “Nothing is more limiting than being a limited owner with George Steinbrenner”.
Craig Calcaterra and Bud Selig are socialists!
I see a big difference between GGBG before and after K. Long.
I used to call him “noodle bat” because I though power pitchers would just knock the bat out of his hands.
I apologize Bret.
You proved me wrong, and I’m glad you did.
And I wish that Bohdi would return also. Alas, I think not.
the handle the poster used was ‘Bodhisattva’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva
it’s a term in Buddhism that translates roughly to “enlightened being”.
Hopefully he/she checks back in and sees that the blog is alive and well. Enlightenment is always a welcome thing.
Revenue sharing however was NOT intended to aid bankrupt teams, NOR be used as a tool to assist an ownership group Selig preferred over another (as in, preventing Mark Cuban to obtain financing).
Chuck Greenberg really needs to shut up.
He has no business talking about anything other than his own team.
To “brag” he kept Lee away from the Yankees is comical.
He shuld be worried about how he is going to replace the ace HE failed to sign.
The ace Selig allowed him to acquire even though the team was bankrupt.
Bronx Jeers January 28th, 2011 at 4:48 pm
So Craig Calcaterra just rushed to Chuck Greenberg’s aid in dealing with big, bad Randy Levine.
And what’s with the stuff about revenue sharing? I can’t help but think that Levine is going to get a call from Selig over that. Levine may not like it, but revenue sharing is part of baseball’s architecture. It is designed to aid teams that were not, like Levine’s Yankees, blessed with a monopoly over the largest media market in the country.
What monopoly is he referring to?
************
Hmmm-
I like Classic Monopoly. Illinois Avenue is my favorite property. And the Oranges and Reds and Railroads are my favorite monopolies to purchase/trade for
The Texas Metroplex is hardly lacking in people. What they’ve lacked for 37 years is solid ownership. They drew when they were good.
GB7-
Actually the quote was that Wilpon was seeking “strategic partners”, whatever they are. Wilpon would probably like them as limited as possible but money has a way of talking in the end.
At least George’s limited partners made money. Who in their right mind would want to invest in the Mets with the Wilpons running the show?
Patrick, I understand what you’re saying. In general I wish that posters would show a lot more patience with players and not be so ready to call them slouches just because they aren’t performing the way they want them to be. Heck I remember poor Lance Berkman coming over from the NL and getting skewered before he even had 22 AB! This forum is not known for its patience and understanding for players!
Nick in SF…….Won on The Cal Berkeley Bears last night…..Lost on The UCLA Bruins……Arizona is looking real good by the way
“He has no business talking about anything other than his own team.
To “brag” he kept Lee away from the Yankees is comical.”
Here’s what Greenberg said:
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas.....s-comments
The comments seem perfectly reasonable and I don’t see a anti-Yankee brag there, but maybe I’m missing something.
Levine got ticked off because Greenberg has been told to shut up about the Yankees.
Instead, he’s bragging at a fan event he kept Lee from the Yankees.
Now I get his job involves spin.
However, a guy who so far has only shown the ability to run his mouth and be unable to keep Cliff Lee shouldn’t be running his mouth.
Especially when receiving a revenue sharing check. One that is undeserved since the Rangers money problems didn’t stem from the size of their market.
They stemmed from inept ownership and management.
If Donald Trump was younger, maybe he would buy the Mets…or, they could sell it back to Nelson Doubleday.
SJ44-
I just don’t see the brag. The Rangers were one of three teams chasing Lee, it seems pretty natural that Greenberg would comment on it.
SJ…..Good stuff today
Pat M, the Cal-St.Mary’s parlay was very nice, I also teased both teams with the overs, which I had to sweat out in both cases, but it all came out well. A very nice late Thursday of hoops.
GreenBeret7 January 28th, 2011 at 5:02 pm
If Donald Trump was younger, maybe he would buy the Mets…or, they could sell it back to Nelson Doubleday.
************
Donald Trump is too busy with his big plans to buy/restore Tavern on the Green
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes......the-green/
The comments seem perfectly reasonable and I don’t see a anti-Yankee brag there, but maybe I’m missing something.
–
His comment was at a fan gathering and the tone of the comment is “Even though we didn’t get him, we are responsible for him not going to the Yankees.” It was a yankee slanted comment.
This forum is not known for its patience and understanding for players!
—
Fans in general aren’t known for patience and understanding, Yankee fans especially!
The comments seem perfectly reasonable and I don’t see a anti-Yankee brag there, but maybe I’m missing something.
—————————————————————————————————————————————-
Greenberg’s claiming that it was his persistence that foiled the Yankees attempt to sign Lee.
Perhaps this would have been ignored if he didn’t already insult the Yanks with his “violent..apathetic..embarassing…” comment during the ALCS.
Too bad Trump didn’t buy the Red Sox, they would be bankrupt by now if he had.
Why should we take Pettitte back? He’s become as arrogant as Brett Farve…and he plays this silly game every year. Last year he was barely able to pitch into the second half of the season before he got hurt. Once hurt, he milked the injury until 2 weeks before the playoffs. Its obvious the guy is selfish and isn’t committed to the team. He probably wouldn’t win more than 7 games (if he last the entire season). Lets move on without him.
Isn’t the issue, at least if you are a Rangers fan, “Why didn’t we sign Cliff Lee”, instead of, “we kept him away from the Yankees”? Even though the validity of that statement is in dispute.
There is bad blood between the two organizations for several reasons. Selig already told Greenberg to cool it once.
I guess Randy just felt if the guy wasn’t going to listen to Selig he was going to fire back.
Randy Levine and I are certainly not in each others fan clubs.
However, in this case, I think he was correct in taking the shots he took.
jpb,
Because he’s better than the alternative of having Mitre start 30 games.
Randy Levine and I are certainly not in each others fan clubs.
However, in this case, I think he was correct in taking the shots he took.
—
That sums up my feelings on the guy as well
Leaving work at a normal time.
For those who were curious, I did not get in trouble for my decision to work from home yesterday. No one even seemed to notice.
Anyway, hope you all have a wonderful night. I will see the morning people in the morning when I reclaim my desk
SJ44, Face and BJ-
Here’s the controversial part of Greenberg’s comments:
“I think if we wouldn’t have gone to Arkansas that last time, I think he was going to sign with the Yankees. We pried the door open a little bit to give ourselves another opportunity. And ultimately the Phillies were able to take advantage of that opportunity that we created. While we would have preferred that he would have chosen to go with us, we’re real pleased that he’s going to the other league.”
He is not crowing that he foiled the Yanks and I can’t see where he is taking an anti-Yankee slant. He’s telling his fans he tried, but the Rangers lost. Pretty tame stuff IMO to warrant Levine’s comments. IMO to most non-Yankee fans Levine came off looking worse.
Just one thought before I leave for home –
Apparently, it’s not just kids in a schoolyard who mouth off. People should just take care of their own business.
If you want to look good to fans, put a winning team on the field.
“Fans in general aren’t known for patience and understanding, Yankee fans especially!”
Except, from what I hear, in St. Louis where they cheer their players no matter what. (I don’t know if there’s anything to that or if they just started the rumor themselves!)
jpb,
Because he’s better than the alternative of having Mitre start 30 games.
—————————————————————————–
Not if he shows up late to training camp, gets hurt and spends all of his recovery time back in Texas. The truth of the matter is that the self-centered Pettitte isn’t committed to the Yankees anymore.
trisha,
I think some fanbases are more understanding but there isn’t as much difference as the media would have you believe.
And…I think Levine is too smart to say something like that without it being approved by Hal.
Who really cares about the Rangers ? What they say, or what they do.
In the long run they are a non-entity. Just like the Sux, or the Rays.
When they get past 27 I’ll take notice.
Wave, I don’t see anything in that controversial at all! Of course he’s happy Lee went to the other league. Geeze how many moves do the Yanks and Sux make to keep players from each other? So he said so. No big deal.
Wave Your Hat -
It’s these three words that change the tenor that statement, IMO: “that we created.” One can infer that he is taking credit in a weird way for keeping Lee away from the Yankees.
“Hey, if we didn’t get him, at least we created the opportunity to keep him away from the Yankees” is how it sounds to me.
Also, it is the combination of his this comment with the negative comment he made about Yankees fans back during the playoffs.
He is not crowing that he foiled the Yanks and I can’t see where he is taking an anti-Yankee slant. He’s telling his fans he tried, but the Rangers lost.
““I think if we wouldn’t have gone to Arkansas that last time, I think he was going to sign with the Yankees. We pried the door open a little bit to give ourselves another opportunity. And ultimately the Phillies were able to take advantage of that opportunity that we created.”
–
That is anti-yankee right there. The message is clear, “Don’t hate on ownership because we missed out on Lee, praise us for stopping him from going to the Yankees.” Before the off-season it was ‘yankees vs rangers’. The Rangers are acting like they won.
Wave,
You know that term within the male vernacular that rhymes with “sockblocking” ?
To me Greenberg is saying “hey we might not have won the Lee sweepstakes but at least we “sockblocked” the Yanks with our efforts”
Good signs.
trisha – true pinstriped blue is back.
Spring training must be right around the corner.
Doreen – Yes, that, the first sentence is the implication he was going to the Yankees. The second is that they created a situation in which he ultimately didn’t. And then saying they were happy about that.
Why would you ever address your fans like that, its a loser mentality.
Sorry guys and this is the last comment I’m going to make on it because really who cares, and I know we are all Yankee fans here, but I think the only way to see Greenberg’s comments as anti-Yankee is through Yankee glasses.
And big deal if it is anti-Yankee!
Andy comin back swings the balance of power in the AL to our favor IMO.Always thought he was coming back & this latest is encouraging.As I have been saying I think AJ has a good yr under the new PC & if Andy’s back that gives even AJ some cushion.Also takes some pressure off Nove in the Number 5 role,though I really,really,really would rather see Chamberlain get a shot in there & still not giving up hope no matter what C-man is saying.But Andy back just makes life a whole lot smoother in the Bronx.