The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


The pieces that barely fit

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 29, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The best free agent still on the market is almost certainly Vladimir Guerrero, who had nice 2010 but suffered from a DH-heavy offseason market. These days, the Orioles are the team most commonly linked to him, but their reported offer of roughly $5 million doesn’t seem to have grabbed Guerrero’s attention.

There seems to be at least a small push within the fan base for the Yankees to make a run at Guerrero as a power bat off the bench, but I find it hard to see where he would find enough at-bats to justify a $5-million deal. Seems to me, it’s best to save that money for a move mid-season, when the team’s needs are more accurately defined.

Instead, the Yankees could sift through what’s left of the free agent market to add a low-cost option for the last spot on the bench.

Outfield
Best fit: Lastings Milledge
Notable: Scott Podsednik, Ryan Church, Gabe Gross
The outfield market is still left-heavy, and that’s with Jim Edmonds reportedly leaning toward retirement. Milledge is a former top prospect who’s never quite produced at the big league level, but he’d be interesting as a fifth outfielder with upside. The trick might be getting him to take a job with such little playing time. I like Scott Podsednik, but it’s hard to envision a role for him a team that already has Brett Gardner.

Infield
Best fit: Felipe Lopez
Notable: Willy Aybar, Cristian Guzman, Eric Chavez, Joe Inglett
Lopez has played every position but center field and catcher at the big league level. He’s also hit .280/.351/.392 the past three years. He could be seen as an experienced alternative to Eduardo Nunez or Ramiro Pena, or as a fourth man on the bench: Part fifth outfielder, part second utility infielder. The Yankees have plenty of Triple-A infielders, but at this point I wonder if Aybar and Inglett might have to settle for minor league deals with invitations to big league camp, kind of like Marcus Thames last year.

Catcher
Best fit: None
Notable: Bengie Molina
The Yankees have plenty of catchers, so it’s hard to predict them getting back into this market. That said, Molina is still out there and would be an upgrade over Francisco Cervelli. Jon Heyman has reported that Molina wants to play if “special opportunities” present themselves. Would coming off the bench for the Yankees be a special opportunity? My guess is, it doesn’t matter. The Yankees have made their catching move of the offseason.

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164 Responses to “The pieces that barely fit”

  1. pat January 29th, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    Beat writers tweeting away so Jorge must be making an appearance somewhere……..

    PeterBotte Posada: “I’m going to spring training as a DH. It is what it is.” Said he’s keeping mitt broken in, just in case. “I’ll catch this year.”

    PeterBotte Posada: “Derek Jeter is a shortstop. Derek is not going to move to another position.”

  2. Doreen January 29th, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    pat -

    LOL.

    Yup, so where is our Jorge tonight? :)

    ****

    Looking at what’s available, I think I’d prefer the Yankees to look at what they already have within the organization.

  3. YankeesNmore January 29th, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    When trying to figure out who Brian Cashman might target, I find it helpful to ask yourself three questions.

    1) Do any of the players in question have an extensive and serious injury history?

    2) Has it been at least 3 years since any of the players in question didn’t suck?

    3) Do any of the players in question fit both 1 AND 2? If so, he will be a Yankee shortly.

  4. BIG AL January 29th, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    Good night folks, have a great evening.

  5. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    Jeter can play LF right now & would not hurt you………he’s going to be a B Dent very soon

  6. Joe from Long Island January 29th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    Good envening, all –

    1. Doreen – congrats on your good day with your family today. Also on navigating the wilds of Westchester. It’s a jungle out there. :)

    2. GB – Sorry to read about your house. There’s not enough justice in the world.

    3. I remember reading in Roger Kahn’s book, The Boys of Summer, about some of the drills that Branch Rickey put his pitchers through. Pitching with one eye covered over, things like that, things that he thought made great sense. Kahn said the prototypical Rickey pitching staff suffered with sore arms, and upset stomachs from all the grief and ulcers.

  7. YankeesNmore January 29th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    “Jeter can play LF right now & would not hurt you”
    ———————————————————————————————
    That bat in ANY spot but shortstop would REALLY “hurt you.”

  8. randy l. January 29th, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    big al-

    i’m baffled why gardner came to the majors being such a bad bunter. i really don’t think learning how to bunt has been high on the yankees teaching list. i think it’s as simple as that.

    i know you cringe when i mention the twins, but all their players are taught to bunt and that includes morneau, mauer, etc. even big papi can bunt and that’s from when he was a twin.

    it’s just emphasis i think.

    i was on a back minor league field of the rays two years ago and they had a bunting drill going on back at the screen that hitters were doing when they were done hitting in BP. it was a tough drill and the players were struggling with it.

    they had a coach who had been a good bunter in the bigs( can’t remember now who it was) and he was just pushing these guys to learn how to bunt. i just don’t think the yankees really push it. i

  9. pat January 29th, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    Jorge is with Bernie at his fundraiser based on the tweets.

  10. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    # YankeesNmore January 29th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    “Jeter can play LF right now & would not hurt you”
    ———————————————————————————————
    That bat in ANY spot but shortstop would REALLY “hurt you.”
    ————————————————————————————–
    maybe I’m jumping the gun here but is Gardner’s stats – SB ..going to be better than Jeters

  11. Doreen January 29th, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    As I said this morning, this seems to be the winter of the outspoken athlete. :)

    It’s kinda fun(ny). :)

  12. YankeesNmore January 29th, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    maybe I’m jumping the gun here but is Gardner’s stats – SB ..going to be better than Jeters
    ———————————————————————————————————–
    Considering Gardner is very young and improving AND LED THE TEAM in on base % last season, I would say absolutely yes.

  13. upstate kate January 29th, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    hmmmm….none of those guys look too impressive…probably why they are still available

    sorry to hear about your house GB, that is just mean spirited

    Jerkface
    make my cone mint chocolate chip

  14. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    joeman January 29th, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    # YankeesNmore January 29th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    “Jeter can play LF right now & would not hurt you”
    ———————————————————————————————
    That bat in ANY spot but shortstop would REALLY “hurt you.”
    ————————————————————————————–
    maybe I’m jumping the gun here but is Gardner’s stats – SB ..going to be better than Jeter
    —————————————–
    I’ll answer that …YES

  15. BIG AL January 29th, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    randy l. -

    I was just leaving when I saw your post. I agree 100%, and remember the days Phil Rizzotto would go to ST to teach guys to bunt, and always thought to myself, this is what I thoght HS kids to do, why not in the minor leagues before they get to the dance. The Yankees do not, and seldom every played small ball, thus they put no effort into a very basic part of the game, and it shows in critical parts of games when the bunt is called for.

    Back to Brett, again, he was a good bunter in SWB, I still have no idea where that part of his game went.

    Have a great night, catch you tomorrow.

  16. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    Interesting that KC is moving their top cayching prospect to the outfield. Wonder if there is a Yankee/KC trade with Romine and somebody being a large part of the deal for a KC starter? Hochevar and somebody coming to NY?

  17. Doreen January 29th, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    Thanks, Joe from Long Island.

    Randy, for some reason I seem to remember reading that Gardner was able to bunt at the minor league level, but abandoned it. But if he was ever good at it, shouldn’t the skill survive? I mean, shouldn’t he be able to still bunt?

    It might not be something the Yankees valued at one time. I wonder if that’s changed?

    It seems to be a basic skill and something every baseball player should be able to do if called upon to do so. Not that you’re going to ask Alex Rodriguez to bunt all that often, but if he COULD do it, isn’t the element of uncertainty valuable?

  18. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    # BIG AL January 29th, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    randy l. -

    I was just leaving when I saw your post. I agree 100%, and remember the days Phil Rizzotto would go to ST to teach guys to bunt, and always thought to myself, this is what I thoght HS kids to do, why not in the minor leagues before they get to the dance. The Yankees do not, and seldom every played small ball, thus they put no effort into a very basic part of the game, and it shows in critical parts of games when the bunt is called for.

    Back to Brett, again, he was a good bunter in SWB, I still have no idea where that part of his game went.

    Have a great night, catch you tomorrow.
    ——————————————-

    Remember them days very well…

  19. SAS January 29th, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    Doreen,

    As I said at the end of the last thread, it is exciting about your daughter. Am glad for all of you.

    ———————————————————————

    Doreen, Pat,

    It is amazing that there are catchers left to be had.

  20. pat January 29th, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    I love that Jorge will always think of himself as a catcher and Derek as a SS as long as they don’t get disruptive if and when they are overruled for the good of the team.

  21. Joe from Long Island January 29th, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    1. I think Gardner is not a natural baseball player, though he is, obviously, a very good athlete. I wonder if the reason why he was bunting at SWB, and not NY, is because he got away from it and wasn’t a good enough baseball player to just get it back without the work. Just a guess. But, I hope he improves on that aspect of his game this year. He would then take that next step, IMO.

    2. GB – some creative thinking there, about KC. I’d be interested in Hochevar, but why would KC want to trade a young starter with potential? It’s not like it’s the 1950′s anymore, ya know.

  22. Doreen January 29th, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    SAS -

    Thanks. It really is fun to watch. :)

    ***

    Back to bunting.

    Aren’t all baseball players taught to bunt SOMEWHERE? Shouldn’t they already know how to bunt BEFORE they are hired as professionals? (Signed, whatever.)

  23. randy l. January 29th, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    “I’ll have a coffee ice cream cone please.”

    SAS-

    at jerkface’s sabermetric ice cream stand you might have to order a strawberry one to get a coffee one . for some reason they switch around the names.

  24. Doreen January 29th, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    pat -

    I do agree with you, there.

  25. pat January 29th, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    If Gardner was a good bunter and base runner in the minors, the talent is there so sound like either he needs to shake the rust off and flex that muscle more often or he’s having a confidence issue with the skill now.

    GB

    As I said earlier, Cervelli’s work with Cano this off season translating to a good spring and higher trade value is best case scenaio for the Yankees in acquiring a worthwhile piece be it pitching or otherwise.

  26. Joe from Long Island January 29th, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    Bunting is no where as emphasized as it was back in the day. Back then, most teams played some version of small ball. Now, not so much. And you just have to look at the number of HRs compared to decades ago.

    Heck, look at the contract that Adam Dunn, or even our own (now) Andruw Jones, got, and compare that to Scott Podsednik.

  27. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    Tanks Joe In LI and kate. Most obviously was teenagers, because they caught a couple when they hit the neighbors houses too. Stealing expensive tools from one that was restoring a ’58 Vette and had just finished the reupholstry and paintwork and getting it ready for the clearcoat finish. Slit the seats and used a screw driver on the paint. He went to the kid’s house and was packing heat. Turns out that one was a cop’s kid and another was a preacher’s kid. They admitted to that but not the other two houses. I blame the parents for the way kids have so little respect for others belongings, because Daddy always got them out of trouble.

  28. SAS January 29th, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    Joe in LI,

    I take exception to your comments about Westchester. :smile:

  29. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    Gardner at this point in time isn’t a good bunter (would improve his average 10 pts) and not really a good base runner

  30. Joe from Long Island January 29th, 2011 at 7:28 pm

    “Daddy always got them out of trouble.” How often have we seen that in society? Too much.

    I really feel bad for you, GB.

  31. blake January 29th, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    For 5 million bucks would Vlad make the Yankees better? I think he would….playing time would be complicated though and it is a little redundant with what they already have.

    From earlier…..I had to step out but that list of all time SS’s was done before Jeter’s career was over. If he gets to where he could then he’ll be higher on that list. Ripken was a good player but he gets a lot of points in things like this for that streak…..as a pure baseball player I think Larkin was better than him also….at least at his peak. Jeter may finish with 3,500 hits and 6 or 7 rings…..we just don’t know yet

  32. Joe from Long Island January 29th, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    joeman – like I said, he’s clearly a very good athlete, but I don’t get the sense that he has great baseball instincts, and has to work on them. Not impossible to do, just has to work.

    SAS – The wilds of Westchester are only surpassed by the wilds of Long Island. Especially in this snow season. I’m tired of driving on roads flanked by neck-high piles of snow on the sides. Very claustrophobic.

  33. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    2. GB – some creative thinking there, about KC. I’d be interested in Hochevar, but why would KC want to trade a young starter with potential? It’s not like it’s the 1950?s anymore, ya know.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Joe, Hochevar will be 28 before the end of this season and reallt has done nothing since being drafted #1 overall in 2006. He has potential but, has pretty much flopped. KC said they’d like all of their kids to grow togetherm so, maybe they’d make a deal for him and another decent minor leaguer and NYYs send Romine and another. KC really pushed him through fast. Call it a change of scenery trade.

  34. DaSaint007 January 29th, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    “Daddy always got them out of trouble.” How often have we seen that in society? Too much.

    Agreed.

    BTW GB, what was your MOS?

  35. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    # Joe from Long Island January 29th, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    joeman – like I said, he’s clearly a very good athlete, but I don’t get the sense that he has great baseball instincts, and has to work on them. Not impossible to do, just has to work.

    SAS – The wilds of Westchester are only surpassed by the wilds of Long Island. Especially in this snow season. I’m tired of driving on roads flanked by neck-high piles of snow on the sides. Very claustrophobic.
    —————————————————
    you want snow right now I have 34 inches of snow on my deck & long range weather forecast from my work expect this weather pattern until late March

  36. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    Joe, I’m over it now, unless I see them somewhere. Then I kind of bump into them and just say that “time is coming’. Everyone knows that I hunt with a rifle and bow and arrow.

  37. 108 stitches January 29th, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    GB-7

    Sorry about the horrific ‘Vette damage. If those dumb kids knew how their parents were once protected from peril by your overseas time, they might understand.
    Hopefuly Georgia treats you better from here on out.

  38. randy l. January 29th, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    “Aren’t all baseball players taught to bunt SOMEWHERE? Shouldn’t they already know how to bunt BEFORE they are hired as professionals? (Signed, whatever.)”

    doreen-

    most players until they get to pro ball have been the star at every level they ever played.

    i think that the pro level is often the first time they aren’t the best player on their team. so that’s when bunting starts for that kind of player.

    bunting is a really easy thing to do if you can do it. i grew up in the fifties bunting for hours at a time imitating mantle’s drag bunts. it is very easy to just catch the ball with the bat if you do it enough. the problem that i see is that most guys never get past the mechanics and never develop a feel for it.

    not being able to bunt isn’t just this generation. the players in the 80′s and 90′s weren’t very good at it either. one day i was catching a mlb pitcher working out in the winter before spring training who wanted me to step into the batters box while he threw some pitches. i didn’t feel like going back to the backstop to gather all the balls so i just started bunting them all down the first base line into a small circle.

    he was stunned i could bunt like that on 90 mph pitches, but it’s really easy if you grew up doing it. mlb players of his generation just didn’t focus on bunting so they didn’t bunt well.

    another thing modern players don’t do is play pepper which i think teaches bat control and really comes in handy for situational hitting.

  39. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    simon, I held an 18B MOS. Heavy Weapons Specialist, but retired with an 18Z…CSM

  40. mick January 29th, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    Jeter can play LF right now & would not hurt you………he’s going to be a B Dent very soon
    =====================
    When did Bucky play the OF joeman?

  41. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 7:44 pm

    GB..you in Special Forces

  42. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    # mick January 29th, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    Jeter can play LF right now & would not hurt you………he’s going to be a B Dent very soon
    =====================
    When did Bucky play the OF joeman?
    ——————————————————————————-

    going to be a B Dent at SS……

  43. Doreen January 29th, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    randy l -

    My husband bemoans the lack of bunting skills (as well as the failure of many MLB players to run hard to first base). He could bunt. He learned in little league. Surely, no one is a star in little league? And shouldn’t a good HS program teach fundamentals?

    What is “pepper?” I’ve heard the term for so many years, and never really knew what it meant.

  44. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    1o8,

    it was the neighbor’s Vette, but, military was just a job. Nothing heroic. I enjoyed the work, especiallyteachingand building schools and clinics, digging wells. Those are the best parts of the job. The rest was like kids playing Army with bigger toys. appreciate the kind words, though.

  45. Joe from Long Island January 29th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    ok, so another 6-8 storms dumping snow. Oh, joy.

    GB – you were some heavy kind of guy.

  46. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    # Joe from Long Island January 29th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    ok, so another 6-8 storms dumping snow. Oh, joy.

    GB – you were some heavy kind of guy.
    ———————————————————————
    at two storms per week …more than that

  47. mick January 29th, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    I thought the last spot would come from Pena, Nunez and/or Golson.

    I figure 5 OF’s, 2 C’s, 5 IF’s, a DH.

    Looks like it’s between Pena and Nunez.

    I would let Nunez play in AAA like Montero for a while.

  48. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    Joe In LI, I’ve been getting that way, lately.
    Gotta start running more. Like I said, it was just a job. We blew stuff up, but, you get to make others healthier. docs/nurses (except for one), cops firemen, teachers = heroes.

  49. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    # mick January 29th, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    I thought the last spot would come from Pena, Nunez and/or Golson.

    I figure 5 OF’s, 2 C’s, 5 IF’s, a DH.

    Looks like it’s between Pena and Nunez.

    I would let Nunez play in AAA like Montero for a while.
    ——————————————————————————–
    -would have been nice to see get a utility player who can play both OF & IF…with a decent bat

  50. Joe from Long Island January 29th, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    GB, you mean Nurse Karloff isn’t in that hero group, lol…..

  51. pat January 29th, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    “I?m tired of driving on roads flanked by neck-high piles of snow on the sides. ”

    I said this morning our street looks like a luge run with cut outs for driveways.

  52. mick January 29th, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    -would have been nice to see get a utility player who can play both OF & IF…with a decent bat
    ================================
    none around…

  53. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    # GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    Joe In LI, I’ve been getting that way, lately.
    Gotta start running more. Like I said, it was just a job. We blew stuff up, but, you get to make others healthier. docs/nurses (except for one), cops firemen, teachers = heroes.
    ————————————————————————————–
    electric lineman = heroes

  54. 108 stitches January 29th, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    Doreen :

    Pepper was an exercise players used before games to shapen their reaction skills from balls hit to them from a short distance either in the air or on the ground by either a coach or teammate.
    It was done near the stands in foul territory. Not seen much anymore although some ballparks still have signs on the walls near the homeplate area that say, NO PEPPER.

  55. mick January 29th, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    Only 12m left to spend and it’s earmarked for you know who…

  56. Joe from Long Island January 29th, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    Gotta run, dinner time. Later.

  57. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    Joe from Long Island January 29th, 2011 at 7:53 pm
    GB, you mean Nurse Karloff isn’t in that hero group, lol…..

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    I don’t, but Randy thinks that she’s a goddess.

  58. Betsy January 29th, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    It would be really nice if we could go a day without snow……………how I hate mother nature

  59. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    # 108 stitches January 29th, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    Doreen :

    Pepper was an exercise players used before games to shapen their reaction skills from balls hit to them from a short distance either in the air or on the ground by either a coach or teammate.
    It was done near the stands in foul territory. Not seen much anymore although some ballparks still have signs on the walls near the homeplate area that say, NO PEPPER.
    —————————————————————-
    first thing you learned in little league was bunting…way back when

  60. randy l. January 29th, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    doreen-

    here’s a video of playing pepper

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

  61. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    What is “pepper?” I’ve heard the term for so many years, and never really knew what it meant.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    She is a lady police detective on TV. Looks a lot like Angie Dic kenson.

  62. tyanksfan36 January 29th, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    So I bought a new baseball book today. Living on the Black. Hopefully I read it before 2011 is over. I currently have a pile of books to read a foot high. I don’t know why I keep buying them.

    If you’re sick of the snow, come down to FL. Its so nice here. I didn’t even have to wear a jacket today.

  63. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    if B Gardner played for Billy would he know how to bunt

  64. Jerkface January 29th, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    Randy you still have not addressed my point, what is your issue with it when the data doesnt change?

  65. mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    # joeman January 29th, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    # BIG AL January 29th, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    joeman -

    If you had a brain, you’d be worth having a conversation with, but alas, you fall short in that department.
    ———————————-
    thought we were buds
    ==================
    Why the disrespect joeman?

  66. pat January 29th, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    Pepper Anderson! Loved that show.

  67. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    # mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    # joeman January 29th, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    # BIG AL January 29th, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    joeman -

    If you had a brain, you’d be worth having a conversation with, but alas, you fall short in that department.
    ———————————-
    thought we were buds
    ==================
    Why the disrespect joeman?
    ——————————–
    who knows…….

  68. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    # pat January 29th, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    Pepper Anderson! Loved that show.
    —————————————————-
    think GB had the hots for her

  69. Doreen January 29th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    Thanks, 108 stitches. I can’t believe in all these years I never knew what it was.

    But, if it was the ML players, why would there be signs saying “NO Pepper?” :)

  70. mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    joeman gets no respect…

  71. West Coast Yankee Fan January 29th, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    Dear Brian,

    I know you and I have had our issues, but why do I have the sneaking suspicion that you are quietly working on a deal behind the scenes to bring a respectable pitcher to the Yankees before the P&C reporting date. Shhhh? Ok, shhhhh.

    Your buddy in blue, WCYF

  72. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    # mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    joeman gets no respect…
    ——————————————————–
    none at all & I’m from the old school

  73. randy l. January 29th, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    “Randy you still have not addressed my point, what is your issue with it when the data doesnt change?”

    jerkface-

    so everyone will know what we’re referring to :

    http://www.fangraphs.com/stats.....#pitchtype

    when someone looks on wang’s fangraph’s pitch types to see what % of sinkers he throws they will soon realize there is no sinker category.

    that’s just plain dumb.

    wang and other pitchers throw sinkers and fangraphs doesn’t even acknowledge that a sinker exist.

    as i said, that’s dumb , and it makes anyone wonder how many other places fangraphs is this dumb.

  74. mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    # joeman January 29th, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    # mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    joeman gets no respect…
    ——————————————————–
    none at all & I’m from the old school
    ==========================
    maybe because you picked the bears and the jets and will also be wrong about Andy

  75. Doreen January 29th, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    randy l -

    Thanks. Wow. It amazes me he could hit the ball back and forth like that.

    Plus, does anyone choke up on the bat anymore?

    Seems like it would be something you might use for fielding practice as well?

  76. mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    But, if it was the ML players, why would there be signs saying “NO Pepper?” :)
    ======================
    they probably thought a fan could get hit by a stray ball

  77. 108 stitches January 29th, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    But, if it was the ML players, why would there be signs saying “NO Pepper?”

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    As I understand it, ownership fears of a fan being hit by an errant miss of a ball or one hit a little too hard resulting in hitting fans in the 1st row of seats. Yankees play pepper before games but now they use the outfield behind 1st and 3rd bases.

  78. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    # mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    # joeman January 29th, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    # mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    joeman gets no respect…
    ——————————————————–
    none at all & I’m from the old school
    ==========================
    maybe because you picked the bears and the jets and will also be wrong about Andy
    ———————————–
    not true..if you remember I did a two team tease Bears & Jets = winner…didn’t know Andy signed

  79. Doreen January 29th, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    tyanksfan36 -

    You will enjoy that book. I read it a couple years ago. :)

  80. mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    joeman -

    If you had a brain, you’d be worth having a conversation with, but alas, you fall short in that department.
    ———————————-
    thought we were buds
    ==================
    Why the disrespect joeman?
    ——————————–
    who knows…….
    ======================
    don’t think the big guy has gotten over the cj remark

  81. Doreen January 29th, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    mick & 108 stitches

    Again, thanks.

    Makes sense to move it to the OF area.

    It looks like a fun exercise.

  82. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    pat January 29th, 2011 at 8:03 pm
    Pepper Anderson! Loved that show.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    yes, it was a good show. The lady has “Snark”.

  83. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    Prime 9′s best Sliders coming up next. Yanks place two in top 4.

  84. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    # mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    joeman -

    If you had a brain, you’d be worth having a conversation with, but alas, you fall short in that department.
    ———————————-
    thought we were buds
    ==================
    Why the disrespect joeman?
    ——————————–
    who knows…….
    ======================
    don’t think the big guy has gotten over the cj remark
    ——————————
    yep

  85. randy l. January 29th, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    “Seems like it would be something you might use for fielding practice as well?”

    doreen-

    you can play it with 2 or more players so even with 3-4 friends as kids we’d play for hours. you get fielding, hitting, placing the ball , and a well developed sense of humor because you can look one way and hit the other. or the guys fielding can flip the ball behind their backs to another fielder and the ball gets thrown from a different direction. it’s just plain fun and teaches a lot of skills. it does help you with bunting because you do learn how to cacth the ball with the bat and redirect it to where you want. a hard bunt and a soft pepper swing aren’t all that different.

  86. mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    Prime 9?s best Sliders coming up next. Yanks place two in top 4.
    ======================
    Sparky and Gator?

  87. mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:26 pm

    you can play it with 2 or more players so even with 3-4 friends as kids we’d play for hours. you get fielding, hitting, placing the ball , and a well developed sense of humor because you can look one way and hit the other. or the guys fielding can flip the ball behind their backs to another fielder and the ball gets thrown from a different direction. it’s just plain fun and teaches a lot of skills. it does help you with bunting because you do learn how to cacth the ball with the bat and redirect it to where you want. a hard bunt and a soft pepper swing aren’t all that different.
    ===================================
    also good for the reflexes.

  88. tyanksfan36 January 29th, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    Doreen

    I’m sure ill enjoy it. I have picked some good ones that I’ve enjoyed. Its next on my list if I ever finish “The Last Boy” I have also read an enjoyed “The Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty” by Buster Olney. I don’t really like Olney but that was a great read even though the end was hard to get through. I read Birth of a Dynasty about the 1996 Yankees. I finished it in one weekend. If only I could have the same enthusiasm for my school books.

  89. mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    don’t think the big guy has gotten over the cj remark
    ——————————
    yep
    ==============
    joeman, you feel bad about it?

  90. Doreen January 29th, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    randy l -

    That guy in the video made it look very easy.

  91. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    # mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    don’t think the big guy has gotten over the cj remark
    ——————————
    yep
    ==============
    joeman, you feel bad about it?
    ——————————————————————
    nope

  92. Jerkface January 29th, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    Randy, they will see wang throws 60 percent fastballs with an average vertical break of 8 inches, there is no real issue here. You’ree making mountain out of mole hill regarding fangraphs data label.

  93. mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    joeman, you feel bad about it?
    ——————————————————————
    nope
    =======
    hard fraternity to crack

  94. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 8:34 pm

    played pepper with a Fungo bat

  95. randy l. January 29th, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    “That guy in the video made it look very easy.”

    doreen

    it ‘s easy like breathing if you do it a lot.

    now watch these mets farmhands show everyone how not to play pepper.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUdSMiBKUqY

    they absolutely suck at it.

  96. mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    joeman

    you see joe franco around?

  97. SoS January 29th, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    What is up mi amigos!!

    Cant come in any longer on weekdays. Dropping by to say hi and how exciting i am to see Colon signed.
    Reasons to love the Colon signing.

    1. Makes Joba and C.C. look skinny.
    2. First player to wear a triple digit number.
    3. Jeter can use his hair valeline to put on his face ala boxers to protect from chairs flying at him this season diving.
    4. Montero can have a personal pitcher that speaks his language to warm him up.
    5. Posada can join them standing in the batters box while Jesus catches.
    6. We can use him as a shield in a bench clearing brawl.
    7. Can have a race around the stadium in the 7th inning stretch ala pirates with joba tweedle dee Colon tweedle dum
    8. Will be Alex personal slump buster by giving him his homerun swing back.
    9. Alex will win the homerun championship and MVP with 50 dingers.
    10. #28 nuff said.

    Have a good one fellas!!! and GO YANKEES!!

  98. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    One of the reasons they stopped allowing pepper games on the grass was because they’d have about 20 patches of dead grass on the field.

  99. mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    Reasons to love the Colon signing.
    ========================
    11. Headlines that read: Colon Stinks!

  100. mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    12. Colon and Andruw Jones can sit on opposite sides of the bench to balance it.

  101. SAS January 29th, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    SoS,

    Nice to see you. Your funny too.

  102. SAS January 29th, 2011 at 8:45 pm

    GB:

    Did you get my email address yet?

  103. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    # GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    One of the reasons they stopped allowing pepper games on the grass was because they’d have about 20 patches of dead grass on the field.
    ————————————————
    has nothing to do with the dead grass…where do you come up with this stuff

  104. randy l. January 29th, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    ” they will see wang throws 60 percent fastballs with an average vertical break of 8 inches, there is no real issue here.”

    jerkface-

    yeah, there’s an issue. wang threw a sinker.

    there should be a category called “sinker?

    in that particular graph there is no distinction between a sinker, a four seam fastball, and a two seam fastball.

    a sinker is a sinker.

    it’s not a four seam fastball.

    it’s not a two seam fast ball.

    it’s not a splitter.

    it’s a sinker.

    make a damn column for it.

  105. SoS January 29th, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    Way to keep the line moving mick.

    Good to see the O.G.’S in here SAS!! That includes you grumpy OLD GB.
    Hope everyone is doing well. See you when I see you. Till then, keep the seat warm for me will ya.

  106. mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    joeman…2/3 of the cj’s use ignore tactics

  107. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    # mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    joeman…2/3 of the cj’s use ignore tactics
    —————————
    you noticed

  108. mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    the less you say the more you hide your ignorance

  109. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    CJ = Grumpy Old Men

  110. randy l. January 29th, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    in 2007 fangraphs says wang threw 76.4 fastballs, 16.2% slider, 6.2%change ups, and1.2% split fingered fastballs .

    where the hell are the damn sinkers ?

    yes , i know .

    they are hidden in the fastball bucket.

    that’s just dumb because we don’t know how many four seam fastballs he threw from this or how many sinkers he threw.

    make a sinker category.

    it’s it’s own pitch.

  111. mick January 29th, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    CJ = Grumpy Old Men
    ===============
    clique

  112. mick January 29th, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    joeman

    ever heard of the term mutual admiration society?

  113. Chad Jennings January 29th, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    Just to chime in on Gardner bunting… He’s told me in the past that he bunted a lot in the lower levels, but as he got closer to the big leagues, he knew he needed to work on hitting and didn’t want to sacrifice very many at-bats on a bunt when he could work on whatever he was trying to adjust at the plate. I saw him lay down some good bunts in Scranton, but he didn’t bunt very often at that level. He seemed to be improving as a hitter at the time and didn’t want to lose those ABs.

    Now, he’s clearly lost some of his skill in that area. He knows it, but saying “re-learn to bunt” and actually re-learning to bunt seem to be different things. To be honest, in my mind it’s an overrated strategy anyway, even for a guy like Gardner.

  114. Jerkface January 29th, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    Randy, I agree they should have a sinker category but remember they divide pitches based on the result not on the grip, so if wang throws a bad sinker and it doesn’t sink it is going to be labelled differently.

  115. mick January 29th, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    Chad

    The art of bunting has definitely died.
    Not practical anymore and certainly not a moneymaker.
    Agree?

  116. mick January 29th, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    The DH helped the demise of the bunt.

  117. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    # Chad Jennings January 29th, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    Just to chime in on Gardner bunting… He’s told me in the past that he bunted a lot in the lower levels, but as he got closer to the big leagues, he knew he needed to work on hitting and didn’t want to sacrifice very many at-bats on a bunt when he could work on whatever he was trying to adjust at the plate. I saw him lay down some good bunts in Scranton, but he didn’t bunt very often at that level. He seemed to be improving as a hitter at the time and didn’t want to lose those ABs.

    Now, he’s clearly lost some of his skill in that area. He knows it, but saying “re-learn to bunt” and actually re-learning to bunt seem to be different things. To be honest, in my mind it’s an overrated strategy anyway, even for a guy like Gardner.
    ——————————-
    as stated before if he played Billy Ball he would bunt more ….the kid has crazy speed why not use it any way you can

  118. mick January 29th, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    Money ball has killed the bunt. Giving up outs are forbidden.Bunting for a hit and sacrifice bunting are 2 very different things . Most bunts were traditionally to sac a runner over. Bunting for a hit is a forgotten art.

  119. joeman January 29th, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    118. mick January 29th, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    Money ball has killed the bunt. Giving up outs are forbidden.Bunting for a hit and sacrifice bunting are 2 very different things . Most bunts were traditionally to sac a runner over. Bunting for a hit is a forgotten art.

    ———————————————————–
    had to go a looking & all I could find ….Aybar had 18 bunt hits in 2010

  120. randy l. January 29th, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    “Randy, I agree they should have a sinker category but remember they divide pitches based on the result not on the grip, so if wang throws a bad sinker and it doesn’t sink it is going to be labelled differently.”

    jerkface-

    hey, we’ve made progress.

    i’m not opposed to what fangraphs is doing , but they have a long way to go.

    also i do plan to get into the analysis side of things more this winter( even if just to refute it) so i do appreciate the explanation of terms by you and where to find things.

  121. West Coast Yankee Fan January 29th, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    I think Jerkface was AWOL this morning when the over reliance of stats and metrics were almost unanimously panned here.

  122. SAS January 29th, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Just a few notes and links :arrow:

  123. Doreen January 29th, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    jerkface -

    If I went to Fangraphs to find out how many sinkers Wang would throw, and I don’t know that a sinker is a type of fastball (don’t laugh), how would I find that information? I couldn’t.

    You may say that Fangraphs is not for the casual fan who doesn’t know that a sinker is a type of fastball. I’d answer that I am not a casual fan and I didn’t always know that. But I might read somewhere that Fangraphs is this really cool website that can tell you about what a pitcher throws, and decide I want to check it out.

    I’d see that it doesn’t list a sinker for Wang, and I’d think, what’s up with that?

  124. Jerkface January 29th, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    Unanimousley panned by a bunch of anti intellectuals, yea I avoided that mess.

  125. randy l. January 29th, 2011 at 9:49 pm

    ” To be honest, in my mind it’s an overrated strategy anyway, even for a guy like Gardner.”

    chad-

    good info on gardner. i think small ball things like bunting need to be part of a whole system to work.

    the right manager is also needed to implement the bunting. when torre and zimmer were together a guy like gardner could have done some damage. girardi bunts sometimes, but not a lot. it also helps to have really aggressive base runners too because the pitcher and all the infielders are going to have multiple possibilities going on in their head of what they have to do to cover all the possibilities.

    even a routine position like first base can have a variety of things the first baseman might have to think about if bunting, stealing, and hit and run are all in play plus swinging away. he might have to charge a bunt down the first baseline. he might have to hold a guy on and then get back out to field a batted ball. he might have to think if he gets a grounder does he try for the double play if there’s a guy on third too. small ball tries to mess with the fielder’s heads.

    in pressure situations if a manager can get all the opposing infielders thinking about 5 different places they have to be, there is a good chance they won’t execute well defensively.

    the offense has the advantage in they know what they are going to do. the confusion comes in when the defense as too many things to think about. but not many teams pay this way. maybe the angels, rays, and the twins some.

    one player’s small ball skill isn’t going to be very valuable if the whole system doesn’t amplify that player’s skill. the yankees really don’t play much small ball so i can see why gardner decided he had to hit his way on the team.

  126. Jerkface January 29th, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    Doreen I am not going to defend fangraphs 100% because I think every website should do its best to display all the data available. My point re fangraphs vs randy is he is bludgeoning this pitch mislabelling thing and turning it into a bigger deal than it is and using it to insinuate about the veracity of the data itself when the only issue is in how bis labels pitches. You can go to other websites which use pitchfx and see the exact kind of pitches wang throws.

  127. randy l. January 29th, 2011 at 9:54 pm

    “I’d see that it doesn’t list a sinker for Wang, and I’d think, what’s up with that?”

    doreen-

    precisely what happened to me.

    but jerkface agrees that they should have a category for sinker balls.

    what i’m wondering is how many more sinkerball type situations that fangraphs is deficient in that jerkface is not telling us about :)

  128. Doreen January 29th, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    Jerkface -

    Fair enough.

  129. Jerkface January 29th, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    BFangraphs is fine if you want to see the distribution between categories of pitches. Pitchers might throw 2 types of curves but they will be classified as curve ball not curve 1 and curve 2.

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