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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


A few Sunday night links

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Jan 30, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

If we’ve learned anything today, it’s that we can probably take Justin Duchscherer off the list of potential rotation options. He reportedly down to Baltimore and Washington as possible destinations.

Some other links for today…

• Josh Norris posted a little bit more of his interview with Brian Cashman, with most of it centered on the Yankees scouting department, and specifically the scouting in Mexico that’s led to Ramiro Pena, Alfredo Aceves, Manny Banuelos and Jorge Vazquez.

Former Yankees sinkerballer Ross Ohlendorf is looking to bounce back from a one-win season in Pittsburgh. The guy had a 4.07 ERA and only a single win. That’s brutal.

Former Yankees reliever Russ Springer has decided to retire. Although his career took him all over the big leagues, Springer was originally a seventh-round draft pick of the Yankees.

Buster Olney looked at what could be a solid Orioles lineup if Baltimore signs Vlad Guerrero. Of course, the Orioles pitching remains suspect.

• ESPNNewYork reports that Citi Field likely will host the 2013 all-star game.

• Speaking of the Mets, apparently Martin Luther King III is interested in buying a share of the team.

Comments

comments

 

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244 Responses to “A few Sunday night links”

  1. Nick in SF January 30th, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    “ESPNNewYork reports that Citi Field likely will host the 2013 all-star game.”

    Will Bernie Madoff throw the first pitch from Ryker’s Island?

  2. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    Authentic New Yorker spelling: Riker’s Island.

  3. Nick in SF January 30th, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    My apologies. I’ve been away too long.

  4. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    I’ll give you a pass & assume you’re one of those yankees-jets-islanders people ;)

  5. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    if the madoff thing makes the wilpons sell controlling interest in the team, mets fans may come to thank bernie in the end.

  6. Nick in SF January 30th, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    As if. It’s because I always refused to pass anywhere near Shea — did I get that one right? Shea? Shay? — or anything else on that island as much as possible.

  7. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    a cleansing,a purging.I can see it.they were talking about the mets on NPR the other day.that was a jolt.

  8. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    Oh sorry,I meant to say I’ll give you a pass & assume you’re one of those yankees-giants-rangers people.

  9. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    to avoid shea, not using the van wyck and the grand central kinda puts a crimp in your travel time.

    it also deprives you of seeing the unisphere.

  10. Robin January 30th, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Free at last!

    Free at last!

    Thank God, almight, the Mets are free at last!

  11. Nick in SF January 30th, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    Don’t forget the Knicks, although sometimes I try to. :oops:

  12. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    Has to be tough being a Mets fan.

  13. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    AAO – some of the angriest people on the planet.well, in NY, any way.

  14. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    Don’t follow the bouncing ball myself,but this Amaury guy has some of my friends very excited.

  15. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    lol

  16. Nick in SF January 30th, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    Once they finally get out from under that Larry Johnson contract, look out.

  17. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    Could the Mets have picked a more appropriate burrough to play in than Flushing?Afterall, the team and whole organization is crap.

  18. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    # BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    Could the Mets have picked a more appropriate burrough to play in than Flushing?Afterall, the team and whole organization is crap.

    ————————–

    I don’t like the Mets at all but I have to admit it is hard watching them go through this. If you told a Mets fan after they lost the 06 NLCS that the organization would go into a tail spin they wouldn’t believe you.

  19. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:06 pm

    flushing is a neighborhood in the borough of queens

  20. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    Ysguy-

    Thanks for clearing that up…

  21. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    Afterall they have been through, I actually think the Mets finally put a good management team in place. I expect Alderson to trade Beltran and Santana (and eat money) this summer, and also let Reyes walk for prospects (if they don’t trade him). He will commit to player development and place a good team in 4-5 years. Mets fans are used to waiting…

    Whether the Wilpons can afford to wait out that time period –with a slashed payroll and a minority investor (and could the reported interest of Martin Luther King Jr BE any more of a minority investor?–had to throw that joke in) remains to be seen.

  22. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    Bad joke SMH

  23. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:14 pm

    As mentioned days or weeks ago (I’ve lost track of time), I would still like to see the Yankees acquire Carlos Beltran for stretch run in August as they did with Berkman. His remaining commitment will be less than $9M, and the Mets will eat some of that to get back prospects.

  24. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    Bad joke SMH
    +++++++++++
    Hey–someone has to have the bad judgment to post inappropriate humor every once in a while. And I think pointing it out as a pun/play on words/bad joke in advance mitigates any foul.

  25. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    you could see the mets deal santana, beltran, reyes and krod by the asb. johan and beltran would have to prove they are healthy first, but imagine the bidding between the yankees and socks on a healthy santana.

  26. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:17 pm

    sorry i meant by the trade deadline not the asb.

  27. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    Hewy–isn’t that Mrs Madoff in the ad above for e-filing?

  28. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    # YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    you could see the mets deal santana, beltran, reyes and krod by the asb. johan and beltran would have to prove they are healthy first, but imagine the bidding between the yankees and socks on a healthy santana.

    —————————

    Problem is Santana isn’t the same anymore and he would be coming off shoulder surgery too.

  29. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    coming off a shoulder injury*

  30. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    “Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:19 pm
    # YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    you could see the mets deal santana, beltran, reyes and krod by the asb. johan and beltran would have to prove they are healthy first, but imagine the bidding between the yankees and socks on a healthy santana.

    —————————

    Problem is Santana isn’t the same anymore and he would be coming off shoulder surgery too
    _____________

    i kinda thought i covered the ‘coming off shoulder surgery’ part with the “would have to prove they are healthy first’ as well as the ‘on a healthy santana’ parts, but are you suggesting that there wouldnt be huge bidding on santana if he could just put up his 2010 #’s? forget about what he was and just look at what he is, which is a top of the rotation pitcher if he just comes back to last year’s form.

    if he is available the bidding will be huge and it should be. lee’s 2010 #’s are only slightly better than johan’s

  31. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    I actually wouldn’t want Santana–too fragile for too much left on contract. But Beltran interests me for when Jones takes his annual slide (if he does)…and Reyes? Hmmm, not usre who he really is…a talented offensive force or a clown in a baseball uniform.

  32. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    I probably could see the Red Sox acquiring Reyes though.

  33. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    santana 599 IP the past 3 yrs.

  34. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:31 pm

    # YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    “Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:19 pm
    # YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    you could see the mets deal santana, beltran, reyes and krod by the asb. johan and beltran would have to prove they are healthy first, but imagine the bidding between the yankees and socks on a healthy santana.

    —————————

    Problem is Santana isn’t the same anymore and he would be coming off shoulder surgery too
    _____________

    i kinda thought i covered the ‘coming off shoulder surgery’ part with the “would have to prove they are healthy first’ as well as the ‘on a healthy santana’ parts, but are you suggesting that there wouldnt be huge bidding on santana if he could just put up his 2010 #’s? forget about what he was and just look at what he is, which is a top of the rotation pitcher if he just comes back to last year’s form.

    if he is available the bidding will be huge and it should be. lee’s 2010 #’s are only slightly better than johan’s

    ——————————

    How much time is he going to get to “put up his 2010 numbers” The guy isn’t coming back until June at the earliest.

  35. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    this board is unbelievable in many ways. people on here would have given thier first born to get lee here but wouldnt want santana. statistically, they’re almost the same guy.

  36. Jerkface January 30th, 2011 at 10:35 pm

    this board is unbelievable in many ways. people on here would have given thier first born to get lee here but wouldnt want santana. statistically, they’re almost the same guy.

    Well, one is coming off shoulder surgery, the other isn’t. Santana was already losing fastball velocity going into the Mets trade as well. Lee is 32 and still throws 94

  37. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:36 pm

    Ysguy–

    First, I didn’t want Lee either, so at least I am consistent.

    Second, if you like paying over 30 year old pitchers with arm trouble history for past performances, you really are not with the current program. Cashman has stated he wants to get away from that approach (which is why I am glad that Lee signed elsewhere).

  38. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    # YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    this board is unbelievable in many ways. people on here would have given thier first born to get lee here but wouldnt want santana. statistically, they’re almost the same guy.

    ————————-

    It’s not about not wanting Santana it’s everything that comes along with it.

  39. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    And besides, by ASB or trading deadline, we should have quite a few good young arms ready to “pitch in.”

  40. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    # BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:36 pm

    Ysguy–

    First, I didn’t want Lee either, so at least I am consistent.

    Second, if you like paying over 30 year old pitchers with arm trouble history for past performances, you really are not with the current program. Cashman has stated he wants to get away from that approach (which is why I am glad that Lee signed elsewhere).

    ————————

    But Lee would have been so good in this rotation. Damn his love for the Phillies

  41. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    YSguy–

    You do realize that Santana wouldn’t be available for a short rental only, right?

    I presume you are aware of the roughly $80M left on his 3 year deal (plus option).

    And still you want him? Lucy, I tink you have some splainin’ to do!

  42. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    Just because they’re statistically almost the same guy doesn’t mean they should be viewed the same way.

  43. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    It’s our South Philly cheese-steaks!

  44. Nick in SF January 30th, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    TWO Subway spokesmen in one Yankee rotation?

    Sounds like a risky scheme.

  45. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    BTW Odds–I am soooo happy he didn’t sign with Yankees! Let’s see how fast he breaks down in Philly and let them eat his contract.

  46. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    Nick in SF January 30th, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    TWO Subway spokesmen in one Yankee rotation?

    Sounds like a risky scheme.
    +++++++++++
    Yes! we ALL overlooked that! This means it absolutely CANNOT even be considered!

  47. West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    I really have to agree with Keith Law on Montero:

    “He has the arm strength to remain a catcher, but takes way too long to get rid of the ball. He’s not a bad athlete, but his bulk has always made it hard for him to get his body moving quickly the way a catcher has to move to block balls or jump out of the crouch to throwing position”.

    “There’s also a concern about the long-term effects that catching will have on Montero’s knees. He is listed at 6-foot-4, 225 pounds, and only five players in MLB history have caught 200 games at or above those numbers, three of them (Joe Mauer, Chris Snyder, and Jarrod Saltalamacchia) have had knee and/or back problems”.

    “With a bat this potentially strong, why risk injury or give up the 20-25 games a year when your catcher has to rest? Montero could solve the Yankees’ DH problem for the next 10 years if they commit to it, a move they are unlikely to ever regret”.

  48. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:43 pm

    # BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    It’s our South Philly cheese-steaks!

    ——————————————-

    Either that of the AAV over the length of the contract.

  49. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:44 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    I really have to agree with Keith Law on Montero:
    ++++++++++++++
    Why? Have you seen him play more than several clips on Youtube?

    What is basis for agreeing or disagreeing if you are only accepting his premise at face value.

  50. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:43 pm

    Either that of the AAV over the length of the contract.
    ++++++++++++++
    Or that too….but in Philly, they want to believe in our cheese.

  51. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    “BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:39 pm
    YSguy–

    You do realize that Santana wouldn’t be available for a short rental only, right?

    I presume you are aware of the roughly $80M left on his 3 year deal (plus option).”

    ____________________________________
    cliff lee is 8 months older, has a back issues, and the yankees offered him twice that.

  52. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    cliff lee is 8 months older, has a back issues, and the yankees offered him twice that.
    ++++++++++++
    Which is why I (again) was against that signing. What’s so inconsistent about not wanting to tie up your rotation with overpaid high risk vets?

  53. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    # BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:43 pm

    Either that of the AAV over the length of the contract.
    ++++++++++++++
    Or that too….but in Philly, they want to believe in our cheese.

    ————————————–

    Ahhhhhhh *light bulb* therefore he comes off like a guy that left tons of money on the table.

  54. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:48 pm
    ++++++++++
    Exactly…the people’s hero.

  55. West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    I have seen quite a few videos of him hitting, read a lot of scouting reports and evaluations, and the general consensus seems to be, and I might add overwhelming consensus, that he is likely to be a very special hitter.

    I also think Law’s reference to catchers that have injury problems at his size makes sense and I am also swayed by having Romine and Sanchez in the minor league system. Why take the increased injury risk and rest him as catchers need to be when he can DH. It’s the AL.

  56. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    bojo we’ve established that you didnt want cliff lee at $160M, but the yankees certainly did.

    the point i made that started this was completly valid. if santana were healthy at the trade deadline, the yankees and socks will bid heavily to get him (and keep him from one another)

  57. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:53 pm

    # BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    BTW Odds–I am soooo happy he didn’t sign with Yankees! Let’s see how fast he breaks down in Philly and let them eat his contract.

    ————————————-

    They last time the Yankees didn’t get a lefty ace(Johan) it worked out so it should be exciting to see if it works out the same way. The Phillies have a window to win…if they don’t that roster is going to be a pain in the arse.

  58. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:54 pm

    YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    bojo we’ve established that you didnt want cliff lee at $160M, but the yankees certainly did.

    the point i made that started this was completly valid. if santana were healthy at the trade deadline, the yankees and socks will bid heavily to get him (and keep him from one another)
    +++++++++++++
    You made a point in responce to my comment that people here were inconsistent in wanting Lee but not wanting Santana. I pointed out that since I am the only one commenting on it, there is no such inconsistency since I wanted neither.

    If you want to make a general statement about the people here, you might first conduct a pole to see if there is such inconsistency, rather than basing your conclusion on a sample size of one.

  59. Jerkface January 30th, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    At the rate he is going Romine isn’t a major league catcher and Sanchez is too far away. The yankees gain little by taking away the catchers position completely, especially because it appears he will catch in the majors. If they get a catcher that can sit 100 games behind the plate, then you can use Montero as a 40-60 game backup.

  60. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    btw, bojo, i was against the lee contract, too and i dont know that i’d want to pay through the nose for santana either. but it could very well come down to both teams standing neck and neck in the standings and both looking to upgrade the back of thier rotation for the stretch run. one team gets an elite pitcher, the other will take the 2nd best pitcher on the market….
    people will be screaming for santana or whoever the next best pitcher available will be, just like they did for lee this winter.
    same thing in boston.

  61. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    # BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:48 pm
    ++++++++++
    Exactly…the people’s hero.

    ————————–

    The man, the myth, the legend…Cliff Lee. His love for Philly is so big he took less to come here even though he’s not actually playing for peanuts.

  62. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    has anybody considered whether cc might opt out of his deal at the end of this year. i dont see any indication that he will, but that doesnt mean he wont.

  63. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    I have seen quite a few videos of him hitting, read a lot of scouting reports and evaluations, and the general consensus seems to be, and I might add overwhelming consensus, that he is likely to be a very special hitter.

    I also think Law’s reference to catchers that have injury problems at his size makes sense and I am also swayed by having Romine and Sanchez in the minor league system. Why take the increased injury risk and rest him as catchers need to be when he can DH. It’s the AL.
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    While I don’t disagree that I might prefer Montero as full0time DH, I wouldn’t presume to accept Law’s analysis about his ability to catch as the reason. This is what you did without any first hand knowledge.

    The reports you have read have probably been read by all here as well, and they are divided. Some say he can do it, some say he is better than some major league catchers right now, and a very few others take Law’s stance.

    Having Montero as an option who might split catching duties with Martin, Romine and eventually Sanchez gives him a lot more value, and the team a lot more options.

    So, I wouldn’t be writing him off based on Law alone.

  64. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 10:59 pm

    # YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    has anybody considered whether cc might opt out of his deal at the end of this year. i dont see any indication that he will, but that doesnt mean he wont.

    ————————————————

    He has stated that he won’t opt out but yes it’s there if he wants to exercise it.

  65. Jerkface January 30th, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    Piliere believes in Montero at catcher, and I trust his scouting.

  66. Jerkface January 30th, 2011 at 11:01 pm

    CC is pretty obviously going to opt out, or use the threat of it to get an extension. I will be 100% shocked if he doesn’t.

  67. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 11:04 pm

    i just take issue with people who slight santana and say things like ‘hes not the same guy’. first off nobody is. he has lost some velocity, hes 32 it was inevitable. but his numbers are really fantastic and it seems like he just cant do enough to make people happy. he had a great year this year playing for a totally dead team with an arm that probably hurt all year. i respect the hell out of him and i think if he came to the yankees, yankees fans would love the guy.

    but i have the same contract concearns as everyone else. although if healthy, santana could give you lee’s #’s for 3 years at half the cost of the lee contract that was turned down.

  68. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 10:55 pm
    ++++++++++
    The difference in Boston and Yankees is that Red Sox do not have 7-10 young arms ready to come up. I’d be happy to see another team acquire Santana and that contract while we bring up a young arm.

  69. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 11:08 pm

    Jerkface January 30th, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    Piliere believes in Montero at catcher, and I trust his scouting.
    ++++++++++++
    Agreed

  70. ac1 January 30th, 2011 at 11:10 pm

    CC is pretty obviously going to opt out, or use the threat of it to get an extension. I will be 100% shocked if he doesn’t.

    ___

    Why is it obvious? Yes there is always a chance, but there has been nothing that would make it ‘obvious’.

    As for Duchscherer, his base is 750K, 1.1 if he makes the team, then a max of 4+ total if he makes 30 starts. For that, i would have liked him on our team.

  71. Jerkface January 30th, 2011 at 11:10 pm

    i just take issue with people who slight santana and say things like ‘hes not the same guy’. first off nobody is. he has lost some velocity, hes 32 it was inevitable. but his numbers are really fantastic and it seems like he just cant do enough to make people happy.

    Well he has lost 4 mph between when he was first up for trade and now. Its not just some lost velocity. He also had elbow and shoulder concerns. I don’t think its fair to compare Lee and Santana or wonder why some people prefer Lee vs Santana. here is what i would say about lee vs santana: Santana has a longer track record of success, but more physical concerns going forward, and you have to take into account his recent success is pitching in the grand canyon of citifield.

    Lee on the other hand has pitched in the AL, with the exception of half a season in hitter friendly CBP, he lacks the overall track record of dominance Santana has but has none of the arm or stuff concerns that Johan does. A bad back IS an issue but it hasn’t stopped him from throwing mostly full seasons and competing in the playoffs.

    Cliff Lee at an older age throws a harder, more accurate fastball than Santana. I think that alone would have me feeling better about Lee going forward than Santana, who I am not sure would be quite as good in the AL at 89 mph.

  72. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    Jerkface January 30th, 2011 at 11:01 pm

    CC is pretty obviously going to opt out, or use the threat of it to get an extension. I will be 100% shocked if he doesn’t.
    +++++++++++
    I wouldn’t really care if he left or not.

    Remember, he was signed as a bridge to get us to the young prospects that the organization is basing their strategy on. At the end of his contract, CC will be another over 30 pitcher who has logged tons of innings, and is on downside of his career. If he wants to get a few more dollars from another team (or try to find one without the Yankees bidding his price up), let him.

    I actually don’t think he will opt out.

  73. Jerkface January 30th, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    Why is it obvious? Yes there is always a chance, but there has been nothing that would make it ‘obvious’.

    Because anyone with an opt out has used one? Even after publicly stating they wouldn’t? Because financially it makes more sense to use it? Because if you do it right, the team you opt out from will simply hire you back for additional years at the same/a higher price?

    Sabathia could get 2 extra years guaranteed on top of the 4 he would have going if he didn’t opt out. At the same or increased salary. He would be the marquee free agent pitcher in next years offseason.

    The only reason he would not opt out is due to injury or if he is truly gil meche levels of nice.

  74. Jerkface January 30th, 2011 at 11:14 pm

    Cliff Lee had multiple 5-6 year offers at the same or higher AAV than Sabathia, and CC is arguably a better bet.

  75. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 11:14 pm

    I’m fine with Duchscherer signing elsewhere too. I used to think taking a flyer on rehab pitchers was a good thing, but now just believe it is a waste of time and diversion from developing from within.

    I expect Duch to face injuries again this year…building a pitching staff strategy on rehab pitchers seems like a recipe for disaster.

  76. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 11:15 pm

    Sorry–s/b at the opt out time, he will be another over 30 pitcher etc.

  77. blake January 30th, 2011 at 11:16 pm

    If Santana were traded at the deadline then the aquiring team would owe him roughly 48 million over the rest of the deal ( 2.5 years) and deferred payments of 5 million in 2019 and 2020. Also the reports are that the surgery he had is generally a one time fix that doesn’t typically recur….actually not a shoulder injury but where the pectoral attaches to the numerous….just sayin……Mets might kick in some cash….never an Era over 3.33.

  78. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 11:16 pm

    in the heat of a pennant race, the # of young arms who will come up in the next few years counts for less.

    also, after this season, ap is certainly gone and aj will be closer to a point where the yankees could choose to pay his way out of pinstripes. it is unlikely the yankees will be counting on rookies to fill the last 2 rotation spots in 2012.

    its very theoretical right now but if it happens, it will be a very tough call.

    this brings up the original santana trade. b/c the yankees got cc and won the WS it is assumed that the non-trade for santana worked out best in the end. but did it?

    had the yankees given up hughes, joba and kennedy for santana, might they still have been better off?

    the jury is still out imo.

  79. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 11:18 pm

    Jerkface…

    How much would Lee have received if the Yankees were not involved in the bidding?

    I am going ot presume Boston can bid next year, but aside from them, there is no team out there that will run up the bid.

    Thus, if Cashman states he won’t bid if CC opts out, CC basically could get a contract with a lower AAV.

    It all depends on how Cashman plays it…but I think he will take a tough stance, and CC will not opt out.

  80. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 11:18 pm

    I will be a hold out and say that CC will not opt out……………

    No thanks on Santana and it won’t happen anyway

  81. blake January 30th, 2011 at 11:19 pm

    Humerus

  82. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 11:19 pm

    im not advocating for santana on the yankees, just pointing out that despite the general impression, this guy is still the real deal .

  83. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    Um, Joba was never offered for Santana and considering that Santana hasn’t been the same in the last couple of years and that he’s not been healthy, I don’t see how it’s possible to say the non-trade hasn’t worked out even if Phil doesn’t become much better than he is.

  84. West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    While I don’t disagree that I might prefer Montero as full-time DH, I wouldn’t presume to accept Law’s analysis about his ability to catch as the reason. This is what you did without any first hand knowledge.

    ****************

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    I guess you didn’t read what I wrote. I said I have seen quite a few videos of Montero hitting, read a lot of scouting reports and evaluations, and the general consensus seems to be that he is likely to be a very special hitter.

    So I didn’t accept Law’s analysis as the gospel alone did I, I happened to agree with what he wrote.

  85. Jerkface January 30th, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    How much would Lee have received if the Yankees were not involved in the bidding?

    I am going ot presume Boston can bid next year, but aside from them, there is no team out there that will run up the bid.

    Thus, if Cashman states he won’t bid if CC opts out, CC basically could get a contract with a lower AAV.

    It all depends on how Cashman plays it…but I think he will take a tough stance, and CC will not opt out.

    Werth got a ton of money. And the Nats want to spend money on a big time starter, they could drive up the price. The Yankees could posture all they want, but they’d never be ‘out’ of any Sabathia sweepstakes because the rotation would be incredibly thin. Thinner than it was with Lee. Not to mention, Cashman can take a tough stance all he wants, but all they need is a whisper of Hal/Levine/whatever and the yankees are right back in it.

    I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised at CC not opting out, but financially, it makes more sense. Even if the Yankees aren’t in it and he only gets 20 million a year or whatever, he will still get more guaranteed money than he would have had with the rest of his 4 year deal with the Yankees, which is all that is important to the opt out.

  86. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 11:22 pm

    YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 11:16 pm

    in the heat of a pennant race, the # of young arms who will come up in the next few years counts for less.

    also, after this season, ap is certainly gone and aj will be closer to a point where the yankees could choose to pay his way out of pinstripes. it is unlikely the yankees will be counting on rookies to fill the last 2 rotation spots in 2012.

    its very theoretical right now but if it happens, it will be a very tough call.

    this brings up the original santana trade. b/c the yankees got cc and won the WS it is assumed that the non-trade for santana worked out best in the end. but did it?

    had the yankees given up hughes, joba and kennedy for santana, might they still have been better off?

    the jury is still out imo.
    +++++++++++
    Not my jury.

    Also, let’s assume Santana was a FA after season, and the Yankees could sign him or use Banuelos and Betances or others to fill hole left by Andy. I think they would go internally since this is what they set their strategy up for.

    Cashman is through paying for past performance if he can avoid it. Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright, Javy Vasquez and others have taught him that lesson well. We should also have learned it as fans.

  87. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    Jerkface–

    I beleive CC to value his word more than the money…call me crazy (but don’t say ti to my face or I will kill you and skin you alive and wear your skin as I frollick in the fields).

    I mean really…how much more money does he need to buy all the food he will consume in his life?

    CC has always been very big (no pun intended) on setting a good example as a man…and I think he will keep his word.

  88. West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 11:26 pm

    Jerkface January 30th, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    At the rate he is going Romine isn’t a major league catcher and Sanchez is too far away. The yankees gain little by taking away the catchers position completely, especially because it appears he will catch in the majors. If they get a catcher that can sit 100 games behind the plate, then you can use Montero as a 40-60 game backup.

    **************

    I and many others disagree with your assessment of Romine and Sanchez is not too far away because we have Russell Martin and there are others out there. Law’s reference to Montero’s weight and comparison to other catchers his size makes a lot of sense to me, those are facts that are hard to ignore.

    Montero at DH could probably be counted on for 150+ games a year. If he can hit the way he is advertised, why take the heightened injury risk when there are other options. It might be a different story if he was a stud behind the plate, but he isn’t and never will be.

  89. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 11:27 pm

    “Um, Joba was never offered for Santana and considering that Santana hasn’t been the same in the last couple of years and that he’s not been healthy, I don’t see how it’s possible to say the non-trade hasn’t worked out even if Phil doesn’t become much better than he is.”

    we didnt know what the trade terms were when we were debating it back then. speculation was that it was likely 2 of those 3. and we still dont know for sure, but it doesnt matter. the point is that any combination or even all 3 might still be a fair trade. joba hasnt turned into much and phil is developing fine but johan has been elite.

    if phil continues to develop into a #2 guy, then i think that seals it in favor of the non-trade, imo.

  90. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 11:27 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    While I don’t disagree that I might prefer Montero as full-time DH, I wouldn’t presume to accept Law’s analysis about his ability to catch as the reason. This is what you did without any first hand knowledge.

    ****************

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    I guess you didn’t read what I wrote. I said I have seen quite a few videos of Montero hitting, read a lot of scouting reports and evaluations, and the general consensus seems to be that he is likely to be a very special hitter.

    So I didn’t accept Law’s analysis as the gospel alone did I, I happened to agree with what he wrote.
    +++++++++
    I read what you wrote. You based his ability to catch on the judgment of Law. It doesn’t matter how many videos you saw of him hitting–that is irrelevant to the conclusion that he can’t cathc because he moves too slowly.

    If you had stated the case that he shouldn’t catch primarily because of risk of injury and the value of his bat, this would be a different discussion.

  91. Jerzz January 30th, 2011 at 11:28 pm

    “I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised at CC not opting out, but financially, it makes more sense. Even if the Yankees aren’t in it and he only gets 20 million a year or whatever, he will still get more guaranteed money than he would have had with the rest of his 4 year deal with the Yankees, which is all that is important to the opt out.”

    Agree. Though I bet his agent will approach the Yanks about an extension first.

    Next year’s SP class is bare thin. He can really cash in if he wants to.

  92. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    “Cashman is through paying for past performance if he can avoid it. Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright, Javy Vasquez and others have taught him that lesson well. We should also have learned it as fans”

    so what did we learn from cc sabathia, roger clemens, david wells, david cone, jimmy key, catfish hunter and mike mussina?

  93. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 11:33 pm

    Blake–

    Can’t recall where, but I was recently reading about Santana’s injury and operation.

    IIRC, it seems that his injury wasn’t that typical, and they had to cut for surgery as opposed to microsurgery…thus adding complications. The net summary I recall taking away from the article is that Santana’s recovery will be risky, and he may continue to lose velocity…

    His fastball and change up variance is much less than it used to be, and he has become much more hittable. IMO, his ERA is more a function of playing in Citifield than his actual pitching ability.

  94. West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 11:33 pm

    Bojo, your comprehension skills are clearly deficient and you obviously can’t comprehend what I wrote. You are just being argumentative.

    “He is listed at 6-foot-4, 225 pounds, and only five players in MLB history have caught 200 games at or above those numbers, three of them (Joe Mauer, Chris Snyder, and Jarrod Saltalamacchia) have had knee and/or back problems”.

    Get it?

  95. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    blake January 30th, 2011 at 11:19 pm

    Humerus
    +++++++++++
    Not so humorous when it is your arm. JK :lol:

  96. Jerkface January 30th, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    I and many others disagree with your assessment of Romine and Sanchez is not too far away because we have Russell Martin and there are others out there. Law’s reference to Montero’s weight and comparison to other catchers his size makes a lot of sense to me, those are facts that are hard to ignore.

    Montero at DH could probably be counted on for 150+ games a year. If he can hit the way he is advertised, why take the heightened injury risk when there are other options. It might be a different story if he was a stud behind the plate, but he isn’t and never will be.

    Mauer has pretty much played 140 games a season since he became a full time player. I would rather risk potential injury, and have a bat like Montero’s behind the plate for 50-60 games than simply stash him in the DH spot where he would have to sit if you wanted to use anyone else there.

    Completely removing the catchers position is foolish because giving Montero positional versatility can only help him stay in a lineup. He should get reps at catcher and first and eventually RF. Then you play him at C, 1B, DH, or RF depending on where you get the biggest net gain in offense from your roster.

    Martin is an unknown at this point. I think the only thing he can be counted on is to put up an above average on base, which is great, but he is not yet proven to where I’d say we wouldn’t want Montero catching at all, especially because right now the backup is Cervelli.

    And please find me all the many others that disagree about Romine. Keith Law referenced his issues. Romine has tools, but his attributes as a ‘potential above average defender at catcher’ were based on him learning to use those tools and at this point he has not. He fails at the basic aspect of catching baseballs. He reaches in to catch and gets interference errors, he drops hard fastballs, he only threw out 23% of runners last year. He has work to do before he is taking Monteros place as a catcher for the Yankees, especially when you also consider the work he needs to put in OFFENSIVELY.

  97. AZ88 January 30th, 2011 at 11:35 pm

    WCFY – Law has been highly critical of Romine’s defense as well (and still questions his hitting skills). In fact, I’d like to see a recent report that says anything good about Romine’s defense.

  98. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    2010 era splits for santana home:3.24, away 2.78. kinda puts a big hole in that theory.

  99. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    “Cashman is through paying for past performance if he can avoid it. Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright, Javy Vasquez and others have taught him that lesson well. We should also have learned it as fans”

    so what did we learn from cc sabathia, roger clemens, david wells, david cone, jimmy key, catfish hunter and mike mussina?
    +++++++++++++
    That it pays to only sign HOFers and players who will prosper in NYC? :lol:

    Again, that was a different era when pitchers were coming to market (thru FA or trade) more frequently, and teams with money could pick up such players. The dynamics of the market changed, which is why Cashman changed organization strategy to one of developing from within.

    To make that strategy work, he has to start playing these guys…

  100. Tank January 30th, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    Ken_Rosenthal
    Source confirms Duchscherer to #Orioles, first reported by @jcrasnick. 1 yr deal. “Low base, pay as you go.”

    Duchscherer has gained 15 pounds and looked “real sharp” in a recent bullpen session, according to a source.

  101. Jerkface January 30th, 2011 at 11:39 pm

    Romine should really be the sell high candidate for the Yankees. He doesn’t have the bat of Montero and his defense is entirely predicated on future potential (which is just like Casey Kelly, who is over hyped as hell as all of his #1 ace projections were based on him adding 3 mph to his fastball)

  102. West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 11:39 pm

    I did not say Romine is ready to start the major leagues, he has things to work on and the minor leagues is where you do that. But he isn’t that far away at least not according to Cashman.

    “Russell Martin is definitely the starting catcher and that there will be a three way competition between Montero, Cervelli, and Austin Romine to be the backup catcher”.

    According to Law, Romine is the 6th highest ranking Yankee prospect.

  103. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 11:41 pm

    Joba was never on offer. Hank loved him and didn’t love Phil. Since I was living and dying with this trade/non-trade, I remember exactly how it went down. The Yankees pulled out (well Hank finally did, Cash didn’t want him to be offered in the first place) after the Twins insisted on IPK in addition to Phil and Melky. Then after the Yankees pulled out, the Twins said, “ok, forget Phil, we’ll take IPK and Wang” – which was ridiculous.

    I wanted Santana, but I didn’t want to give up Phil who, at the time, I believed would develop into a stud. I don’t feel that way now, but the non-trade IMO still worked out because Santana is not young and he’s not healthy and he’s not the same as he used to be. The only way this trade doesn’t MAYBE work out is if Phil becomes more of a back end of the rotation starter, but that’s something of a longshot.

  104. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 11:41 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 11:33 pm

    Bojo, your comprehension skills are clearly deficient and you obviously can’t comprehend what I wrote. You are just being argumentative.

    “He is listed at 6-foot-4, 225 pounds, and only five players in MLB history have caught 200 games at or above those numbers, three of them (Joe Mauer, Chris Snyder, and Jarrod Saltalamacchia) have had knee and/or back problems”.

    Get it?
    +++++++++++++
    Having read you as Redfish over at the Daily News for aover a year, I can say this is a typical rebuttal style from you when you are caught in a logical discussion that you can’t win.

    Fine…believe what ever you want. I’ll go back to ignoring you and be very happy about it.

  105. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 11:42 pm

    Nice pick up for the O’s

  106. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 11:42 pm

    YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    2010 era splits for santana home:3.24, away 2.78. kinda puts a big hole in that theory.
    ++++++++++++
    It surely doesn’t help…let me look at the stats for last 2 years and get back to you.

  107. West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 11:42 pm

    You didn’t read me anywhere else Bojo, sorry that you can’t handle being bested in a logical argument.

  108. Jerkface January 30th, 2011 at 11:43 pm

    A three way competition doesn’t mean Romine can catch in the majors unless he actually wins. And holy cow what does his prospect rank have to do with his ability to supplant Montero as a catcher?

    You can’t take away future games @ catcher from Montero because of Romine or Sanchez when neither of them is prepared to catch in the majors.

    The only player realistically who can come out of a spring competition with the backup job that isn’t Cervelli is Montero. Romine would have to show too much. His offense took a step back in the second half, as it was his first year catching a fullseason, and his defense just isn’t where it needs to be.

  109. Jerkface January 30th, 2011 at 11:44 pm

    Keep in mind, a guy like Cervelli who was touted as being ready defensively for the majors by the time he was in single-A, has a career 41% CS rate in the minors. Cervelli had many tools that he actually used to be rated a good defender.

    Romines defensive ceiling is high due to his athleticism, but he hasn’t even begun to reach it.

  110. West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 11:45 pm

    AZ88 January 30th, 2011 at 11:35 pm

    WCFY – Law has been highly critical of Romine’s defense as well (and still questions his hitting skills). In fact, I’d like to see a recent report that says anything good about Romine’s defense.

    *****************

    January 13th, 2011
    Rob Abruzzese
    Bronx Baseball Daily

    Scouting Report

    Romine has potential to be a .300 hitter with 15-25 home run power. Certainly not at Montero’s level, but still very strong for a catcher. He is aggressive without being overly aggressive (swinging at everything) at the plate, but it does keep him from getting a lot of walks.

    He has pretty good speed for a catcher, swiping 11 bags in 2009, but he’s young and a catcher so there is no reason to think that he won’t slow down a bit as time goes on. He stole just two bases in 2010.

    The best thing about Romine is not just that he can hit, but that he is an excellent fielder too. He has excellent arm strength and a strong receiver. Over the past year he has focused primarily on calling a better game.

  111. West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 11:48 pm

    “Montero is 6-foot-4, 225 pounds, and only five players in MLB history have caught 200 games at or above those numbers, three of them (Joe Mauer, Chris Snyder, and Jarrod Saltalamacchia) have had knee and/or back problems”.

    Does 3 out of 5 not give one pause? That seems to be to be something worth considering.

  112. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 11:48 pm

    # YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 11:16 pm

    in the heat of a pennant race, the # of young arms who will come up in the next few years counts for less.

    also, after this season, ap is certainly gone and aj will be closer to a point where the yankees could choose to pay his way out of pinstripes. it is unlikely the yankees will be counting on rookies to fill the last 2 rotation spots in 2012.

    its very theoretical right now but if it happens, it will be a very tough call.

    this brings up the original santana trade. b/c the yankees got cc and won the WS it is assumed that the non-trade for santana worked out best in the end. but did it?

    had the yankees given up hughes, joba and kennedy for santana, might they still have been better off?

    the jury is still out imo.

    ——————————-

    It’s already been settled. The Yankees held onto their guys and won a WS the very next yr by bringing in CC and company. Plus with Santana battling injuries over the past couple of seasons it adds another check mark on it being a great non move.

  113. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 11:48 pm

    this crap about how johan isnt the same pitcher he used to be is what gets me. between lee and santana,santana has been by far the better pitcher career wise, but in just the 5 seasons since lee’s breakout 22 win year, johan still has better #’s.

    last year johan’s era+ was better.

    he’s still an elite pitcher. if he’s healthy

  114. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    santana has pitched 599 innings the past 3 years.

  115. Rich in NJ January 30th, 2011 at 11:50 pm

    Anyone who thinks a 50-50 ownership arrangement of a sports franchise makes sense shouldn’t own one.

  116. Tank January 30th, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    Martin Luther King wants to buy the Mets?

  117. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    That’s one scouting report – I have to agree with Jerkface on Romine

  118. Jerkface January 30th, 2011 at 11:54 pm

    Rob Abruzzese doesn’t actually scout the players.

  119. Tank January 30th, 2011 at 11:54 pm

    WC,

    But you quote Law to knock Montero, yet his commentary about Romine’s own defensive deficiencies doesn’t qualify?

    Either Law has credibility or he doesn’t.

  120. BoJo January 30th, 2011 at 11:56 pm

    YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 11:48 pm

    this crap about how johan isnt the same pitcher he used to be is what gets me. between lee and santana,santana has been by far the better pitcher career wise, but in just the 5 seasons since lee’s breakout 22 win year, johan still has better #’s.

    last year johan’s era+ was better.

    he’s still an elite pitcher. if he’s healthy
    ++++++++++++++
    I guess the problem I have is that I still would prefer to see the 10 prospects that we supposedly have get a shot before having to revert to the old approach of overpaying older pithcers to play here.

    I looked at his detailed game logs the last two years, and will grant you that he still is doing well. He would probably have been a 17-11 picher on Yankees in 2010 and 18-7 in 2009…so performance if he were to revert to old self is good.

    I still come back to do I want to pick up that contract and block the young arms from getting a chance? My take is no, but there is a good argument to be made from your side too.

  121. Rich in NJ January 30th, 2011 at 11:57 pm

    WCYF lives to find the dark cloud with the Yankees. I wonder why…

  122. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 11:57 pm

    “Montero is 6-foot-4, 225 pounds, and only five players in MLB history have caught 200 games at or above those numbers, three of them (Joe Mauer, Chris Snyder, and Jarrod Saltalamacchia) have had knee and/or back problems”.

    the fact that 3 of the 5 are active says alot about where catching is going.

  123. Jerkface January 30th, 2011 at 11:58 pm

    Wieters is bigger than Montero.

  124. Yanks78 January 30th, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    As it turns out, Jack Z saved Cashman from himself.

    Amazing how lucky we got, first with Santana, then with Lee.

    It does speak to how badly they wanted one extra chance at a championship that they were willing to give up, potentially 10+ years of an elite hitter, for 1 extra crack at a ring.

    Wonder why they were against that with CC/Santana in 08, but not last year with Halladay/Lee.

  125. West Coast Yankee Fan January 31st, 2011 at 12:00 am

    Tank January 30th, 2011 at 11:54 pm

    WC, But you quote Law to knock Montero, yet his commentary about Romine’s own defensive deficiencies doesn’t qualify? Either Law has credibility or he doesn’t.

    **********

    Who knocked Montero? Try to tell the truth. Quite the opposite. I said if Montero was as good a hitter as advertised, that you could get a lot more potentially injury free seasons and at bats out of him by having him DH as opposed to catching. That’s what Law suggested and that is a point I think makes sense.

  126. Jerkface January 31st, 2011 at 12:00 am

    A lot of the up and coming catching prospects are 6’1-6’3 200 lbs, which is certainly fatter than Montero. Seeing as how Montero is 6’4 220

  127. Jerkface January 31st, 2011 at 12:01 am

    I’d rather they get Mauer production out of Montero. Catch and DH.

  128. West Coast Yankee Fan January 31st, 2011 at 12:02 am

    Rich in NJ January 30th, 2011 at 11:57 pm

    WCYF lives to find the dark cloud with the Yankees. I wonder why…

    **************

    I wonder why you don’t tell the truth?

    I said nothing negative about the Yankees, show me one word that was negative tonight. I merely suggested that Montero as a DH made sense. That’s all.

  129. Jerkface January 31st, 2011 at 12:02 am

    You field a stronger overall team the more positions you are above average at. Catching Montero so you can field an above average catcher and an above average DH is better than just sticking him at DH and not letting him attempt to catch. He needs to catch games during a season so he can stay sharp.

  130. Jerkface January 31st, 2011 at 12:02 am

    He can move to 1st when Tex’s contract is up. By then Sanchez or someone else will be catching.

  131. Yanks78 January 31st, 2011 at 12:03 am

    Montero will be 26 when Tex’s contract expires.

    Cash also said A-Rod won’t be a DH. So that opens up that door if they want to do that.

    Adding his young bat to an aging group is the most important thing. Don’t foolishly trade him because he can’t stay at C.

  132. YsGuy January 31st, 2011 at 12:04 am

    im totally with you there, bojo, i hope they wont need to go to santana or lee or anyone like that. i have high hopes for phil this year and i think andy will be back when he can be, but while they may get contributions from brackman or someone else, it is unlikely they will want to go into the penant race with 2 rookies in the rotation. there is going to be big time pressure for them to go get someone who can fill a #2 or at least a #3 spot in the rotation and there are not likely to be many available.

    and the same thing will be going on in boston.

  133. Yanks78 January 31st, 2011 at 12:04 am

    *if he can’t stay at C

  134. Rich in NJ January 31st, 2011 at 12:04 am

    “I said nothing negative about the Yankees, show me one word that was negative tonight. I merely suggested that Montero as a DH made sense. That’s all.”

    How many times have you seen him catch?

  135. Against All Odds January 31st, 2011 at 12:06 am

    # YsGuy January 31st, 2011 at 12:04 am

    im totally with you there, bojo, i hope they wont need to go to santana or lee or anyone like that. i have high hopes for phil this year and i think andy will be back when he can be, but while they may get contributions from brackman or someone else, it is unlikely they will want to go into the penant race with 2 rookies in the rotation. there is going to be big time pressure for them to go get someone who can fill a #2 or at least a #3 spot in the rotation and there are not likely to be many available.

    and the same thing will be going on in boston.

    ——————————————–

    I hope they don’t succumb to the pressure and trade off Montero.

    Goodnight guys take care

  136. BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 12:07 am

    Ysguy

    The other thing I have against Santana other than the contract was the impression I got from the article that he will have a difficult recovery and may continue to lose velocity.

    Here is the link which I just re-found….
    http://riveraveblues.com/2011/.....f-2-42009/

    And here was what caught my eye:

    “Despite initial good news out the Mets camp, which cruelly raised the hopes of Mets fans, it turned out that Santana’s injury was far more serious. Santana had torn the anterior capsule in his left shoulder and required surgery to repair it. The injury is more rare than a Tommy John surgery, and Carroll went to sources to get more information about the actual nature of the injury:

    The anterior capsule is the front lining of the shoulder joint which then attaches to the labrum and then to the bone. The capsule is torn with the labrum often with an acute traumatic shoulder dislocation. However, in baseball with repetitive throwing the anterior capsule can just gradually stretch out and eventually give a thrower pain and a feeling of weakness and a velocity loss. This repetitive microscopic tearing and stretching injury ultimately is what the thrower may describe as a “dead arm” The type of surgery performed is very similar to the open surgery pioneered by Dr. Frank Jobe that was performed on Orel Hersheiser in the ’80s, but now with advances the same surgery can be done arthroscopically. However, the healing concepts are the same and therefore the rehabilitation can be very long to get back to high level throwing. Certainly 6-9 months is not unreasonable.

    In order to repair this injury, the surgeon usually attempts to repair the ligaments arthoscopically. This was Dr. David Altchek’s goal with Santana, but he found that the tear was difficult to reach with an arthoscope and had to make an incision in the shoulder in order to repair it. This is obviously a less desirable method because it causes scar tissue, which can affect range of motion and lengthen the time of rehabilitation. As such, Santana may not return to the majors until the All-Star Break in 2011.”

    The positive news was this:
    “He also noted that pitchers with this type of injury often return stronger than before, and that there is little risk of recurrence. As Levitz said, “Over all there is not a lot of damage to the shoulder with this injury…Once they close the hole in the soft tissue, it should never be a problem again.””

    So there is that.

  137. West Coast Yankee Fan January 31st, 2011 at 12:08 am

    Rich in NJ January 31st, 2011 at 12:04 am

    “I said nothing negative about the Yankees, show me one word that was negative tonight. I merely suggested that Montero as a DH made sense. That’s all.” How many times have you seen him catch?

    *************

    Don’t change the subject Rich. I said nothing negative about the Yankees or Montero. I said that Law’s comments made sense to me, those being that if Montero is that good a hitter, DH might make more sense than catching. Catchers are very prone to injury and his height and weight might not help him avoid back and knees issues. That’s all – it was a discussion about what position he plays and there was nothing negative.

  138. Jerkface January 31st, 2011 at 12:11 am

    Catch him until he breaks.

  139. Betsy January 31st, 2011 at 12:11 am

    Cash’s comments about Alex not being a DH were beyond foolish…………IF he has any hope of preserving this guy for the length of the contract

  140. West Coast Yankee Fan January 31st, 2011 at 12:12 am

    Jerkface – I also don’t disagree about Montero catching some and playing first base. I just wonder if a full time catching position over the long run might not take the bat out of his hands too many times. That’s all.

  141. YsGuy January 31st, 2011 at 12:13 am

    yes, for santana to be a factor at the trade deadline, he will have to be healthy, so since the guy says there is little chance for a recurrance, if he is in play at the deadline, i think that settles that part. or else he’s a non factor this year anyway. but there will be others, just not likely as good.

  142. West Coast Yankee Fan January 31st, 2011 at 12:13 am

    Good night all.

  143. Jerkface January 31st, 2011 at 12:14 am

    Cash’s comments about Alex not being a DH were beyond foolish…………IF he has any hope of preserving this guy for the length of the contract

    Its beyond foolish to not want to commit to DHing a guy full time with 6 years left on his deal? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    A-rod shouldn’t DH until he is closer to 40 than 35.

  144. Nick in SF January 31st, 2011 at 12:14 am

    It would be better for the Yankees if Montero could catch.

    WCYF endorses pessimism about Montero catching.

    This sounds negative.

    Also, this section was also quoted as agreed with:

    “He has the arm strength to remain a catcher, but takes way too long to get rid of the ball. He’s not a bad athlete, but his bulk has always made it hard for him to get his body moving quickly the way a catcher has to move to block balls or jump out of the crouch to throwing position”.

    Negative.

  145. BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 12:15 am

    Ysguy–

    All in all, I would say that your arguments have swayed me to at least consider acquiring Sanatan IF the Mets ate a lot of his contract and IF he showed a recovery of his fastball.

    I suspect that while he may return after the ASB, that his actual control and command may take another several months. Thus, there might be a window of opportunity to acquire him when he is under-valued. That would be interesting.

  146. Jerkface January 31st, 2011 at 12:15 am

    Realistically he shouldn’t be a full time DH type until he IS 40.

  147. YsGuy January 31st, 2011 at 12:19 am

    the mets have quite a few talented players. they havent made a very good team, but they have players. so if they are desparate for cash and prospects, you have to look at that roster and see if soemthing can be had below market value.

  148. GreenBeret7 January 31st, 2011 at 12:20 am

    Fisk, Alomar and Weiter, were or are as big and bigger than Montero. One is in the HOF and two are GG winners and ROYs. Just because some hack writer says it doesn’t make what Law says so. He writes that crap without ever seeing most of these players. Don’t spew the same crap as how much he’s respected, either. He’s in love with his own image.

  149. YsGuy January 31st, 2011 at 12:21 am

    bojo, its very preliminary now, but you have to keep an eye on him as time moves along. he would be the next likely elite pitcher to come available, but you never know.

  150. Jerkface January 31st, 2011 at 12:24 am

    He writes that crap without ever seeing most of these players.

    Well he does do a lot of scouting himself, and pretty much any scout in baseball even the non published ones don’t see all the players or only see them for 1 game. Its one of the limits of scouting and why sabermetrics are necessary.

  151. Betsy January 31st, 2011 at 12:25 am

    Jerkface, you want to tell me where I said Alex should DH NOW?

  152. BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 12:27 am

    YsGuy January 31st, 2011 at 12:19 am

    the mets have quite a few talented players. they havent made a very good team, but they have players. so if they are desparate for cash and prospects, you have to look at that roster and see if soemthing can be had below market value.
    ++++++++++++++
    I do believe that Alderson and his team are pretty sharp, and will look to make deals to get rid of:

    Carlos Beltran
    Johan Santana
    Jose Reyes
    Jason Bay (the trade attempts could be called Baywatch)
    Luis Castillo (:lol: Good luck with THAT!)
    Fernando Martinez
    Francisco Rodriguez
    and Oliver Perz

    Probably have to eat contracts od Castillo and Perez…

    The guys that interest me are Beltran and now Santana if he can be had while undervalued.

    I think Wilpons will force Alderson to move these players to help their cash situation…so there may be interesting deals to be had.

    I could see some smart club picking up Beltran and Santana in a combined deal–without having to give up too many prospects–simply because of the cash relief offered.

  153. Jerkface January 31st, 2011 at 12:28 am

    You’re responding to and calling Cashman foolish where he has said right now that A-rod is not a DH. He hasn’t proven the need to DH yet so why call him foolish for correctly saying that A-rod is not a DH?

    You took a wildly disproportionate response to it.

  154. Rich in NJ January 31st, 2011 at 12:30 am

    “Don’t change the subject Rich. I said nothing negative about the Yankees or Montero. I said that Law’s comments made sense to me, those being that if Montero is that good a hitter, DH might make more sense than catching. Catchers are very prone to injury and his height and weight might not help him avoid back and knees issues. That’s all – it was a discussion about what position he plays and there was nothing negative.”

    Of course, you did. Why do Law’s comments make sense? Because they put a limit on the upside of a player who happens to be a Yankee that you have never seen play.

    I am beginning to see a pattern here. Well, not beginning but a pattern nonetheless.

  155. BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 12:31 am

    BTW–I’m a big fan of having a roster with 4 full time OFers…who can rotate through the 3 spots and DH…

    It creates a stronger bench, mitigates against injuries, and helps keep players fresher.

    Thus, adding Beltran in second half would be a great pick up IMO.

    He could play LF or RF and provide a great bat against tough LHPers.

    I would even make the case that such a trade would be valuable if it leads to draft pick compensations in 2012.

  156. GreenBeret7 January 31st, 2011 at 12:32 am

    Why would the Yankees want to pay Beltran $8-$9 mil for 2-3 months and give up two very good prospects and get nothing in return when he leaves for FA? He hasn’t played enough to by a Type A or B FA. where the Hell does this crap come from?

  157. BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 12:33 am

    Rich in NJ January 31st, 2011 at 12:30 am
    ++++++++++++++
    Best to let sleeping trolls lie…and then ignore their lies.

  158. BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 12:39 am

    GreenBeret7 January 31st, 2011 at 12:32 am

    Why would the Yankees want to pay Beltran $8-$9 mil for 2-3 months and give up two very good prospects and get nothing in return when he leaves for FA? He hasn’t played enough to by a Type A or B FA. where the Hell does this crap come from?
    +++++++++++++
    First, I have to presume that the Mets will be more interested in cash/payroll relief than prospects. So I don’t think the prospects will be of any great value.

    Second, if Beltran plays a full season, he might qualify for picks…based on how well he performs. Even if he doesn’t, he is a valuable player.

    Third, my interest is based on an assumption that Andruw Jones will go into his typical mid-season tail spin, and play a lessor role at end of season.

  159. BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 12:42 am

    GB7–

    A couple of years ago, Cashman wanted to pick up Cameron in pennant run, and I believe IIRC that his contract would have been $5M for that same period. Hal blocked the deal because he felt the team had enough and Cameron wasn’t worth it….but I suspect that he would see that Beltran is worth it–especially if Jones falters, or if one of the starting OFers has an injury (like another Gardner wrist injury).

  160. BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 12:42 am

    Off to sleep–have a nice week to all.

  161. GreenBeret7 January 31st, 2011 at 12:49 am

    Since FA types are based on 2 seasons and not 1, he’s going to have to hit close to 35 homers, .330 and 135 RBI to make as a type B. He isn’t getting close to that.

  162. Jerkface January 31st, 2011 at 1:10 am

    Beltran was a Type-B already this year.

  163. Jerkface January 31st, 2011 at 1:11 am

    he just has to play close to a full season with normal stats to retain it.

  164. YankeesNmore January 31st, 2011 at 1:32 am

    So Baltimore not only gets Justin Duchscherer, but they get him for a “low base salary” on a “pay-as-you-go contract.” …

    Well done, Brian. Keep looking. I’m sure there’s somebody else you can find who hasn’t thrown a pitch for the last few years.

  165. jacksquat January 31st, 2011 at 1:38 am

    Duchscherer might have been worth the risk at only 700k base, 1.1k if he makes the team and then incentives. Yanks don’t like soft tossers though.

  166. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 31st, 2011 at 4:55 am

    “Of course, the Orioles pitching remains suspect”

    Someone hasn’t been paying attention!

    Brad Bergesen – pre-Showalter = 3-10; post-Showalter = 5-2 (Aug. and Sept. ERA – 2.72; 2.84. Teams played – Texas, Chicago, NY, Boston, Tampa, LAA)

    Jeremy Guthrie – pre-Showalter = 3-7; post Showalter = 7-3 (3.07; 3.83)

    Brian Matusz – pre-Showalter = 3-10; post Showalter = 7-1 (2.43; 1.89)

    Add Jake Arrieta and/or Chris Tillman with a little more seasoning and Justin Duchscherer, I’m not sure that I would call that suspect pitching. Bergesen, Guthrie and Matusz makes a hell of a 1-3 for starters (double entendre)!

    They also have some solid bullpen pitching. I personally like Kevin Gregg so I think the Orioles look pretty darned good in terms of their pitching. I won’t be surprised if Buck can turn some others around, including Jeremy Accardo. It’s unfortunate that they won’t have the services of Alfredo Simon, at least for a while…

    (up with a sick stomach. note to myself – do not inhale a Burger King whopper right before going to bed…)

    :)

  167. BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 6:31 am

    Good analysis Trish–The Os worry me.

  168. BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 6:31 am

    Hope you feel better

  169. BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 6:32 am

    :mrgreen:

  170. BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 6:34 am

    Just a follow up to Ysguy from last night regarding acquiring Santana

    I would expect that his command and control will still be iffy when he returns IF the surgery is like TJ surgery. Thus, I would expect his performance in 2nd half to be poor, and creating a real buying opportunity IF his arm is strong and healthy (different than having control and command–which comes back with time).

    IF his arm is healthy, I would actually LOVE to see him picked up with one caveat. The Mets would have to eat the remaining salary for 2011. Going forward, his salary can be absorbed by the slary budget dedicated to Andy Pettitte and Jorge Posada…so his future salary is not a worry.

    The way I would love to work the deal is the Yankees take Santana and Beltran and the Mets pick up their 2011 salaries. Beltran replaces Jones in 2nd half when he usually suffers a dip in performance. At season’s end, the Yankees get a pick if they offer Beltran arbitration and he refuses…or they just let him go.

    In return for picking up some salary, I’d be willing to give the Mets the type of picks Phillies gave up.

    The net result–a strong bench addition with Beltran for 2011, and a solid #2 starter in Santana for 2012 and 2013.

  171. Doreen January 31st, 2011 at 6:59 am

    Good morning, morning people.

    So glad I slept through the controversy du nuit.

    :roll:

    *****

    Okay so tomorrow is February 1. Does Andy decide this week????

  172. Fran the original January 31st, 2011 at 7:05 am

    Good morning.

    Doreen, hope Andy decides soon. Only 2 weeks to pitchers and catchers.

    Tomorrow is also Ground Hog Day. I forget what seeing his shadow means, but I hope it turns out to be the one where spring is right around the corner.

  173. Doreen January 31st, 2011 at 7:09 am

    Fran -

    Me too! I forget which is which and I hope its the good one. :)

  174. upstate kate January 31st, 2011 at 7:18 am

    good morning all
    if the groundhog sees his shadow he gets frightened and goes back into his hole, leading to more winter…doesn’t apply to up here, we are getting more winter regardless…12 below this am!

  175. tyanksfan36 January 31st, 2011 at 7:22 am

    Kate

    It was 40 when I left my house this morning. We still have green grass and trees here. So nice :)

  176. Doreen January 31st, 2011 at 7:22 am

    Thanks upstate kate – ouch that’s cold!

  177. Fran the original January 31st, 2011 at 7:23 am

    Stay warm Kate.

    We are getting more snow tomorrow too, so I guess the ground hog won’t be seeing his shadow. Of course, with all of this snow, he probably won’t be able to get out of his burrow anyway!

    Have to take my car for inspection. Catch you all later.

  178. upstate kate January 31st, 2011 at 7:23 am

    40 is cold for you tyanks!

  179. BIG AL January 31st, 2011 at 7:30 am

    Fran -

    It means 6 more weeks of winter.

  180. 86w183 January 31st, 2011 at 7:47 am

    Wednesday is Groundhog’s Day (Feb 2)

    Buck Showalter is no pitching savant. Those guys were pitching for their lives late last season in games that did not matter a lick.

    Not saying he isn’t a good manager/top flight baseball man. He certainly is. But it takes more than two good months in a lost season so turn anything around. Looks like a fifth place team to me.

  181. blake January 31st, 2011 at 7:49 am

    Its hard to say right now if Santana will be worth a look.. have to see if he comes back healthy and if the Yankees would actually need him…..but I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand as something to keep an eye on..

  182. blake January 31st, 2011 at 7:53 am

    How about Berkman sending some zings the Rangers way…

  183. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 7:53 am

    Good Morning everyone.

    Que pasa ?

    :)

  184. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:01 am

    Blake-

    What did Berkman say ?

  185. 108 stitches January 31st, 2011 at 8:05 am

    Some of the best moves you make are the ones you don’t make.
    It was best that the Yankees held the line against getting Johan Santana.
    For a guy who only emerged within the last few years as a top of the rotation starter, I’m not sure that Cliff Lee can sustain good pitching for the life of his contract as Philly will find out.

  186. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:06 am

    The Duke seems like a no-brainer for 1.1 mil.

    He gets 4 mil IF he makes 30 starts.

    He wanted to start. Maybe we couldn’t guarantee him a spot.

  187. Betsy January 31st, 2011 at 8:09 am

    Another week, another storm in the northeast…………..sigh

    MTU, after I read that the Yanks didn’t attend a recent workout Deustcherer had, I knew they had no interest. I have been very supportive of Andy and his right to take as long as he needs to decide, but it’s now 2 weeks before p/c report and I think he ought to know by now.

  188. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:11 am

    Maybe it’s just me but I don’t see the logic of Colon over the Duke.

    They both have been injured and Colon is older.

    It would only have cost approx. 750K to have the Duke in reserve over Colon.

    IMO the Duke is a way better choice.

    Are things that tight in Yankeeland ?

  189. Doreen January 31st, 2011 at 8:12 am

    MTU -

    That’s what I’m thinking.

    So many times, people don’t acknowledge that the targeted player may have requests (demands, desires) that are in conflict with what an interested team is looking for. I do remember reading that Duchsherer had no interest in pitching out of the bullpen. It’s probably reasonable to assume that the Yankees would have wanted flexibility – if Andy comes back, Duchsherer can be a long guy, spot starter; if Andy doesn’t come back, he could have started. But I’m guessing the Yankees didn’t want to guarantee anything.

    That’s one of the reasons it’s difficult for the Yankees to find just the right fit. Also, they don’t want to sign anyone for longer than this season (which wouldn’t have been the issue with Duchscherer, apparenty, but may have been with some of the other options).

  190. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:13 am

    Betsy-

    I think Cash must know that AP is going to return.

    Why else would he keep rolling the dice ?

    I hope that is the correct interpretation of his behavior.

  191. Doreen January 31st, 2011 at 8:15 am

    MTU -

    Colon is a non-guarantee. If they don’t like what they see, he’s gone. And he’s cheap. Duchsherer is a completely different circumstance. He wanted guarantee to start. And I doubt he wanted a minor league contract, his very basic ML contract notwithstanding.

    It’s not a choice between equals here.

  192. upstate kate January 31st, 2011 at 8:15 am

    wouldn’t the biggest difference be that Colon is a ST invitee, w/ no guarantee? Duke wants a guaranteed position.

  193. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:15 am

    Doreen-

    See my argument above about the Colon vs. Duke signing though.

    Other thing is the Duke could have pushed out Nova to the pen.

    More time for Nova out of the pen would not be a bad thing IMO.

  194. upstate kate January 31st, 2011 at 8:16 am

    yeah, what Doreen said!

  195. blake January 31st, 2011 at 8:17 am

    MTU,

    paraphrasing : that he could have gone to Texas and probably got more money considering that they overspent for Beltre…..that he thinks they may just be an average team without Lee, thinks they caught “lightning in a bottle last year” and had several pitcher perform beyond their talent level etc…..signed with the Cards because he thought they had a better chance to win….

  196. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:19 am

    Doreen-

    Look over at MLBTR.

    The Duke would only have cost 750K if he did not make the roster.

    For that pittance, I would have rolled the dice on him rather than Colon.

    Nova could always have been pushed to the pen for a while.

    It would not affect his ability to start at a later time.

    He is not innnings limited and if kept as a long man could easily be stretched out as needed.

  197. Betsy January 31st, 2011 at 8:20 am

    MTU, maybe, but I honestly don’t think that’s the case. Cash really has never been great at evaluating pitchers………and if he assumed Lee was coming here, he’s probably assuming now Andy is. I think that’s a dangerous game he continues to play.

  198. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:21 am

    Doreen/UK-

    The Duke only gets 1.1 Mil from the O’s IF he makes the roster.

    Only 750K if not.

    For 750K I would have definitely taken the shot.

    He is not guaranteed to make the O’s roster. That is what the 750K is for.

  199. Doreen January 31st, 2011 at 8:23 am

    MTU -

    Duke wanted a guarantee to start. That’s the deal breaker and that’s why Colon was attractive to the Yankees. There is no guarantee there.

    Why assume it was the Yankees’ choice only? There are two parties here. Duchsherer doesn’t want an “iffy” situation for himself. He didn’t want a minor league deal. He wants to start. I remember the quote I read from Duchsherer – he had no doubt he’d be able to pitch anywhere including NY, but he didn’t want to pitch out of the bullpen, he wanted to start. Were the Yankees going to guarantee that? Apparently not.

  200. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:23 am

    Betsy-

    I hope you are wrong. That’s all I can say.

    IMO, Cash should get a Garcia/Millwood type right now regardless of what AP does or doesn’t do.

  201. Mell January 31st, 2011 at 8:24 am

    “I think Cash must know that AP is going to return”

    If he knows this, why keep it a state secret?

  202. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:27 am

    Doreen-

    here’s the exact wording :

    “The Orioles and Justin Duchscherer have agreed to a one-year deal that could be worth as much as $4.5MM in salary and incentives according to ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick (on Twitter). Dan Connolly of The Baltimore Sun reports that Duchscherer gets $700K guaranteed, but his base salary will jump to $1.1MM when he makes the roster (Twitter links). To get the full $4.5MM, he’ll have to make 30 starts.”

    The Duke is only guaranteed 700K. He should make the roster and that would give him 1.1 mil.

    He could make our roster too as a starter, and if not we would have only owed him 700K.

    I wouldn’t necessarily give Nova a priority over a guy like Duke.

    Anyway, it’s water under the dam now.

    Hopefully, we’ll get Garcia or Millwood soon.

    We need a little more insurance IMO.

  203. Betsy January 31st, 2011 at 8:27 am

    MTU, I hope I’m wrong as well…………….I have no proof that Cash is assuming Andy returns, though, but I do think he assumed Lee would sign, so it wouldn’t surprise me. I think Andy is honestly torn, which for me means that he should play. If he retires and he’s torn, he’ll regret it – esp. when he’s by no means done as a quality pitcher.

  204. BIG AL January 31st, 2011 at 8:29 am

    MTU -

    WE agree, some what, I say sign Freddie, not Millwood, regardless of AP coming back or not. He’s insurance that they will need during the season.

  205. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:30 am

    Mell-

    I am just trying to make sense out of Cashman’s behavior.

    To me that just seems like a reasonable interpratation of his inaction
    on adding more SP depth.

    If he knows but can’t yet announce that AP is going to return it would explain a lot for me.

    I am probably totally wrong. Who the heck knows ?

  206. Doreen January 31st, 2011 at 8:31 am

    MTU -

    From http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....Id=rss_mlb

    “The 33-year-old Duchscherer told MLB.com last week that it was pretty “black and white” that he wanted to go to a team that viewed him as a starter, and that he preferred to pitch on the East Coast since his son lives in New Jersey. That whittled down the finalists to the Nationals and Orioles, both teams who Lapa said offered the opportunity for his client “to contribute at the middle to top end of the starting rotation.”

    Emphasis added by me.

    That was quite likely a reason the Yankees were not a choice for him.

  207. BIG AL January 31st, 2011 at 8:31 am

    It might be Andy doesn’t want to pitch until after the trial.

  208. 86w183 January 31st, 2011 at 8:32 am

    Yanks are actually at a disadvantage in going after the reclamation project type guys because of the spectre of Pettite hanging over the franchise.

    If they had two vacancies in the rotation those guys would be falling over each other, but until Pettite slams the door shut on a possible return they probably view the Yanks as needing just an upgrade over Nova/Mitre. That’s not exactly a great opportunity to make a club when compared to other situations.

  209. Doreen January 31st, 2011 at 8:34 am

    MTU -

    The other variable is that Colon was pitching for Tony Pena’s team this winter – so they had a long-term, first-hand experience with what Colon might offer.

  210. Doreen January 31st, 2011 at 8:35 am

    86w183 -

    Indeed.

    This signing of players is a two-way street. Not only do you have to want them, but they have to want you, as well. And they have to think that signing with you is the best alternative they have.

  211. BIG AL January 31st, 2011 at 8:35 am

    The Duke is not a middle to top end SP, period. Not until he can prove he’s healthy, and can put up quality innings.

    In my mind he was saying he wanted to pitch for a weak team on the east coast, because he doesn’t get that guarentee from a contender.

  212. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:35 am

    Doreen-

    I understand but I think we could have offered him the same opportunity.

    I don’t know why we wouldn’t if he is healthy.

    He threw for teams. It must mean he is confident.

    No guarantee he holds up but that is true for colon or the kids.

    Anyway. I really have no idea what the Yankee brass think.

    I was just speculating. I’m not knocking their judgement.

    They have more info. and the superior knowledge.

    My only real concern is that they do not go into the season w/o adding a bit more SP depth.

    Satisfied in every other way.

  213. Mell January 31st, 2011 at 8:38 am

    MTU:

    To me it’s simple. He is either playing or not playing. If he’s playing, why not say so?

    As for Cashman’s behavior, he’s down to picking the least rotten banana. Just not a lot of pitching available. He did mention making a run at Hernandez the other day, but couldn’t get Z to budge.

  214. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:39 am

    And by the way, I have high hopes for Mr. Nova as well as the rest of our team.

    I just like depth and insurance especially if it can come cheaply.

    Thanks for the info. on Colon and Pena Doreen. That is an excellent point.

    :)

  215. Doreen January 31st, 2011 at 8:40 am

    Mell -

    After Cliff Lee (and Greinke, who’s price evidently was too much, and who may or may not have been a good fit for the Yankees), it was always a matter of picking the least rotten banana. Nothing has changed since November.

  216. BIG AL January 31st, 2011 at 8:40 am

    I think the Yankees will have a better chance at getting Josh Johnson at the deadline than Felix at any time.

  217. Doreen January 31st, 2011 at 8:41 am

    You’re welcome MTU.

    It’s definitely frustrating for fans, because we can only be passive observers and there’s too much down time in the off-season!!!

    :)

  218. Doreen January 31st, 2011 at 8:42 am

    Is Ohlendorf not worth a look?

  219. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:43 am

    Mell-

    I am not talking about Mega moves like King felix.

    Those wait for another time.

  220. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:46 am

    And by the way Mell, I am very cautious about ever doing buisness with Jerk Z if I’m Cashman.

    That dude has shown himself to be unethical IMO.

    Anyway, he did us a BIG favor rejecting our deal so maybe I should consider that.

    :)

  221. BIG AL January 31st, 2011 at 8:47 am

    Doreen -

    Ohlendorf might be worth a look, but the cost would be more than he’s worth.

  222. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:48 am

    Al-

    Let’s just stick to getting Freddy for now.

    I’d be perfectly happy with that.

    :)

  223. BIG AL January 31st, 2011 at 8:48 am

    MTU -

    I know many will disagree with me, but for several reasons, I’d prefer Josh Johnson over Felix.

  224. YankeesNmore January 31st, 2011 at 8:48 am

    “I think Cash must know that AP is going to return.

    Why else would he keep rolling the dice?”
    —————————————–
    I actually had the same thought. I figured the Yankees would pass on JD when I heard 4 or 5 teams were in.

    But when I heard the type of deal he’s getting from the O’s… The only reason NOT to be in at that point is because your were eliminated by the player, or you know you’ve got something better.

  225. 108 stitches January 31st, 2011 at 8:49 am

    Doreen January 31st, 2011 at 8:40 am
    Mell -

    After Cliff Lee (and Greinke, who’s price evidently was too much, and who may or may not have been a good fit for the Yankees), it was always a matter of picking the least rotten banana. Nothing has changed since November.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Rotten banana is appropriate. It a year known in advance as being a weak free agency year, the class of 2012 won’t be much better.
    Cashman will need to be clever and imaginative in trades along with hopes that the good young arms emerge as expected.

  226. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:49 am

    Al-

    State your case. I’d like to hear your argument.

  227. randy l. January 31st, 2011 at 8:50 am

    Going into spring training, the yankees have assembled a glut of possibilities for the rotation and the good news is that if a key starter goes down they have someone who can fill in until that injured starter comes back.

    cashman has always said that he’d rather have too many starters than too few starters. he joked that the only problem is that girardi is going to have to send some deserving candidate to the bullpen. girardi predictably said that’s a problem that he’s glad to have.

    cashman said “Some may have criticized me for spending 5 million to create some depth with the rotation, but what’s 5 million when it is an insurance policy on our 200 million payroll?”.

  228. Mell January 31st, 2011 at 8:52 am

    “I know many will disagree with me, but for several reasons, I’d prefer Josh Johnson over Felix.”

    Couldn’t disagree more. Age, injury history, success in the AL all would seem to favor Hernandez.

    Be interesting to see your thoughts on it though.

  229. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:53 am

    Randy-

    Yes. And that is exactly why he should pull the trigger on a little more insurance. Pettitte or not Pettitte.

    :)

  230. blake January 31st, 2011 at 8:55 am

    I still wouldn’t be totallg shocked if the Mariners changed their stance on Felix this summer if they are woefully out of the race again. They are a long way from competing and his contract jumps to near 20 million in 2012. So while they can afford that….is having 20 million allocated to one pitcher on a bad team the best way to use their resources? Johnson’s deal is shorter and the Marlins have less money ….but they also are moving into a new ballpark and are closer to being competitive than Seattle is…..the Mariners could lose 100 games this year.

  231. YankeesNmore January 31st, 2011 at 8:55 am

    “Going into spring training, the yankees have assembled a glut of possibilities for the rotation”
    —————————————
    What are you seeing that I’m missing?

    Right now, the first 3 are set, and they’re going to have choose 2 of Mitre, Nova and Colon for 4-5.

    Not exactly a “glut”

  232. randy l. January 31st, 2011 at 8:55 am

    “Yes. And that is exactly why he should pull the trigger on a little more insurance. Pettitte or not Pettitte.”

    mtu-

    you mean , just to shut me up? :)

  233. 108 stitches January 31st, 2011 at 8:56 am

    Doreen January 31st, 2011 at 8:42 am
    Is Ohlendorf not worth a look?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    This has been brought up in recent days. If he has no physical issues, he is worth another look as a back end starter. Pittsburgh has been reasonable to deal with and wouldn’t be looking for high end talent.

  234. blake January 31st, 2011 at 8:56 am

    Johnson is good but the only other pitcher on the same level as Felix is Halladay…..and he’s nearly 10 years older.

  235. BIG AL January 31st, 2011 at 8:58 am

    MTU -

    First is cost. The Marlins are having a major problem with the city over the new stadium, and it’s been said they may look to move Johnson and others, before they become FA’s, and get back prospects. Josh is the type of power pitcher that I like, and wants to pitch on the big stage, whereas Felix seems more comfortable in a small town setting, and has not been as dominate against the AL East, other than the Yankees of course.
    But then again, AJ was dominate against us as well. Johnson pitching style would be along the lines of Clemens, but IMO, better.

    I’ll talk more later, just got a call and need to go.

  236. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 8:59 am

    Randy-

    Some peolpe would wish that but not me.

    I like your contrarian approach even if I don’t always agree with it.

    And, unlike some, I respect your experience.

    :)

  237. randy l. January 31st, 2011 at 8:59 am

    there is no truth to the rumor that when cashman had his his annual tire rotation that he told the mechanic to get rid of that little spare tire because he wanted to save gas by getting rid of the extra weight.

    plus he said, if he did get a flat tire there were lots of tires he could get cheap at the junkyard.

  238. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 9:01 am

    Randy-

    I just hope GB does not see that I have complimented you or he’ll be pissed at me.

    :)

  239. randy l. January 31st, 2011 at 9:06 am

    “And, unlike some, I respect your experience.”

    mtu-

    that’s just because i told you i hiked down to the bottom of the grand canyon and hiked back up without having to call the park service for a mule to ride back up on.

  240. BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 9:08 am

    If the groundhog sees his shadow, does that mean Andy reports in 2 weeks?

  241. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Randy-

    As impressive as I know that is I have to say that is not the reason.

    :)

  242. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Bojo-

    No. For that a Cow has to jump over the Moon.

    :)

  243. MTU January 31st, 2011 at 9:12 am

    New thread =====>

    See SAS, I thought of you.

    :)

  244. YsGuy January 31st, 2011 at 9:13 am

    REALITY CHECK: justin duchscherer is 33 and got into only 5 games last year after missing all of 2009. he was also on the dl in 2008 and 2007. he has never pitched over 141 innings (then missed the entire following year.)

    on that alone, i barely had any interest on the guy.

    on top of that, he had demands about how he wanted to be used.

    …pass….

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