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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


A game of risk

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 30, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Phillies won the Cliff Lee sweepstakes, there’s no doubt about it. Philadelphia secured the deal the Yankees so desperately wanted, and the course of an entire offseason was changed by that very fact.

But a five-year deal with a 32-year-old pitcher is risky. Lee won the Cy Young award three years ago, but four years ago he had a 6.29 ERA and a losing record. Performance varies. Injuries happen.

Every contract is a risk.

This morning, Kevin wrote about choosing wisely in building a bullpen. There are times when it’s clearly better to give young, cheap pitchers a job, and there are times when it’s clearly better to commit money to proven veterans.

Problem is, we rarely know which is right and which is wrong until the very end.

We won’t know the full impact of Derek Jeter’s current contract until 2014, but we can safely look back at his previous 10-year deal and say that his was one of the rare long-term contracts that never became a significant drain on the franchise. CC Sabathia’s deal is shaping up the same way, but that’s two years into a seven-year deal. Far too early to pass a final judgment.

Alex Rodriguez, Mark Teixeira and A.J. Burnett are all coming off seasons that made their contracts look questionable at best. Damaso Marte’s three year deal has proven to be a mistake. Carl Pavano’s previous Yankees deal worked out so badly it was difficult to imagine him coming back to the Bronx, even when he was clearly the best starting pitcher left on the market.

Will Rafael Soriano be worth three years and $35 million? Maybe. He certainly has a track record of success, but that track record comes with a few injury concern. Right now, not one of us knows whether that signing was a good deal or a bad deal.

What could be more interesting is learning how the Yankees plan to move forward with two of their own. Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain reached arbitration this winter, meaning it’s a matter of time before the Yankees make long-term decisions about two of the best arms they’ve developed in the past 10 years.

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116 Responses to “A game of risk”

  1. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    Another great and insightful article Chad.

    You hit a GS with this one.

    Should spur a great conversation.

    Thank you so much.

    Excellent.

    :)

  2. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    I like the word Trisha like to use.

    “perspicacity”.

    That should be what works.

    Balance.

    :)

  3. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    If Phil has a good year, they’ll probably look to lock him up. If he doesn’t have a particularly good year, then that’s when it gets interesting. I don’t think Joba would re-sign, period – he’ll want to go somewhere where he’ll get a chance to start.

  4. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Marte was a huge reason why we won the WS, so I’m not complaining about his contract. Is the gist of the article that the Yankees have made terrible signings?

  5. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    There’s a whole lot coming behind Joba and Phil.

    The next wave is about hit shore.

    It may be a Tsunami of talent.

    Let’s hope so.

  6. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    I mean, I’m a bit with GLove on Tex, but it’s way too early to even suggest that the contract is questionable – that’s a reach for now. AJ’s contract was always questionable – it’s hardly more so now. They had to do something besides signing CC – so it was AJ or Lowe. I had no desire for Lowe – AJ was the right move. IMO, there is no way CC’s contract is going to be looked at as bad or even questionable, even if he doesn’t pitch like this up until the end. He’s bee MORE than the Yankees could have hoped for.

  7. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    The gist of the article Betsy IMO is that it sometimes takes time to judge the real value of a trade, or even non-trade.

    And that because of the nature of contracts there is always a certain
    amount of risk associated with them.

    The longer the contract the greater the risk.

    that’s my take.

    :)

  8. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    MTU, but that has nothing to do with whether the Yankees will be locking these kids up. Even with all their talent, they still have to go out and do it. The thing is, Betances and Banuelos probably won’t arrive until 2012, 2013. Phil becomes a FA in 2013 I believe. With all of those 2 B’s talents, you still can’t expect them to be impact pitchers right away. Therefore, for the future of the rotation, it’s really vital that Phil perform well enough this year for the Yankees to feel confident enough to re-sign him…………so that they know they have a guy they can slot in behind CC for years to come.

  9. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    MTU, IMO Chad took the negative tack on all of the contracts. I asked the question not because I didn’t “get” the point, but because I don’t agree with some of his evaluations.

  10. 86w183 January 30th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    I agree with Betsy completely. I see no reason whatsoever for concern about Tex, and the Yankees got their $$$ worth out of Marte in the 2009 W.S. if he never throws another pitch.

    AJ is what he is and no one is surprised.

    Alex I tend to agree with the concern that three years from now it will look even worse with what’s left on it. Will never understand why the Yanks didn’t insist on re-doing at least the marketing $$$ portion of the deal after the PED admissions severely reduced the value of those HR milestone achievements.

  11. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Ok, the Marte contract was bad, but not the trade – let me clarify that.

  12. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    For example:

    Look at the risk the Sux took with cc.

    Is he gonna stay productive for that length of time ?

    Not likely.

    But who knows ?

    Risk vs. Reward.

    It’s even trickier with long term contracts for Pitchers.

  13. SAS January 30th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    MTU, Betsy,

    I would be nice if you indicated there is a new thread.

  14. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    At least with Alex we’ve gotten a WS out of it……….and maybe we’ll get another. I don’t spend any time worrying about this deal; I think if he is healthy, he’ll be extremely productive.

  15. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    (repost)

    yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
    SAS January 30th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
    YF,

    Please let me know what to do because I really want to see a game at the new YS. I want good seats because this will be a one time deal. If you need my email address, I will ask Chad to send it. Who I call? etc. A million thanks.
    _____
    Yes, absolutely ask Chad for my email. Also let me know if you have a targeted date b/c it affects seat choices. Where do you want to sit? You can get really nice wheel chair accessible seating on main level right next to the Delta Suites if you time it right. I know all the secrets. Email me.

  16. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    MTU, I still disagree with Chad on most of his points, esp. CC. If CC isn’t ace-like for the last 2 or 3 years, but instead is just very good, I will take that any day of the week after what he’s given us.

  17. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    SAS, excuse me?

  18. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    repost

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
    yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
    yankfem – you’re italian so you must appreciate the selection of sodas in the frig at Old World??Nice authentic italian sodas to wash down the pie!
    ________
    I tend to eat more asian generally. More into serious Japanese green tea. :hide: But yes, Old World is the only time I ever actually drink soda.:)

    ////
    lol.we are fond of green tea around here,too.I feel I’d be remiss if I didn’t put a more emphatic warning on trying Ajihei.Some people have actually been thrown out of the place after making a perfectly reasonable request during their meal.If you read some reviews,you won’t believe what’s gone down,assuming the stuff is true.A diner has asked for something & the chef refuses without explanation.when the diner inquires politely why not,the chef says that’s it,you’re out of here, or something like that.like I said,unpredictably volatile so as good as the food is,I’d hate to recommend it & you have a bad experience.like I said,we’ve never had a problem with him (though he has no service skills at all)but you don’t know what might set him off.they also like to move people out fast,so we get there at hours we know we won’t have waiting people breating down our necks to take the table.it’s small,too.the sushi IS sublime though.

  19. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    Betsy-

    I understand your points.

    Thanks for clarifying.

    I am not concerned about PH going forward.

    How they handle his contract does not concern me.

    That’s the buisness side of baseball and better suited to guys like SJ who work around it all the time.

    I try not to play armchair general on budgetary matters.

    To be quite honest it bores me.

    :)

  20. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    SAS-

    Will try to remember to point it out.

  21. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    MTU, you don’t find it interesting to talk about whether the Yankees will lock up Phil (or Joba, I guess, but as I said, I can’t see him re-signing)? I don’t get into contract details because that’s boring, but this isn’t really a contract detail. Anyway, it is too early to talk about it because we have to see how this season plays out.

  22. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
    repost

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
    yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
    yankfem – you’re italian so you must appreciate the selection of sodas in the frig at Old World??Nice authentic italian sodas to wash down the pie!
    ________
    I tend to eat more asian generally. More into serious Japanese green tea. :hide: But yes, Old World is the only time I ever actually drink soda.:)

    ////
    lol.we are fond of green tea around here,too.I feel I’d be remiss if I didn’t put a more emphatic warning on trying Ajihei.Some people have actually been thrown out of the place after making a perfectly reasonable request during their meal.If you read some reviews,you won’t believe what’s gone down,assuming the stuff is true.A diner has asked for something & the chef refuses without explanation.when the diner inquires politely why not,the chef says that’s it,you’re out of here, or something like that.like I said,unpredictably volatile so as good as the food is,I’d hate to recommend it & you have a bad experience.like I said,we’ve never had a problem with him (though he has no service skills at all)but you don’t know what might set him off.they also like to move people out fast,so we get there at hours we know we won’t have waiting people breating down our necks to take the table.it’s small,too.the sushi IS sublime though.
    _____
    lol, sounds like this chef has character, no? ;)

    Speaking of japanese, do you ever go to soba nippon in the city? The owners are very nice and accomodating. Great handmade soba, actually they are friends of Matsui’s parents and made Matsui’s lunch every day when he lived in NY. They have a great buffet on Saturdays.

  23. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    If not signing Lee, means Betances or Banuelos has a better shot of being a home developed ace who we lose no draft picks for, I am all for it. Not signing Lee may still be a blessing in disguise.

  24. blake January 30th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    I think they will lock Hughes up. Joba will just depend on what he is when this decision needs to be made. They may play the arb process out then let him walk, they could still trade him, or he could finally realize his potential and they fit him into their longterm plans.

  25. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Betsy-

    Not really.

    I prefer to talk about them as pitchers not as contract items.

    Each to their own I guess.

    :)

  26. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    lol, sounds like this chef has character, no?

    Speaking of japanese, do you ever go to soba nippon in the city? The owners are very nice and accomodating. Great handmade soba, actually they are friends of Matsui’s parents and made Matsui’s lunch every day when he lived in NY. They have a great buffet on Saturdays.

    ////
    I guess that’s one way to look at it. He does have a miserly face but he can really slice the fish!I have heard of that restaurant but haven’t been.I had really good soba a couple times in the east village at Soba-ya,very good.haven’t been to the city lately but have a conference coming up maybe I will check out.where is the restaurant?I guess if matsui approved it has to be good,right?I still miss him.

  27. upstate kate January 30th, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    nice dreaming about baseball, but time to grab the dog, meet some friends and go for a ski!

  28. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    MTU, I guess we’re not on the same page and you’re making it sound like I look at these pitchers like pieces of meat.

    Blake, they’ll have to lock Phil up if he has a good year, but if he doesn’t progress, then I think there has to be some questions.

  29. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Also, it doesn’t matter what the Yankees want to do with Joba if Joba doesn’t want to re-sign. I’m sure there will be some other team that thinks, when he’s 28 or 29, that he can still be a starter (although by then he’d have several years in the pen and he’d have to be stretched out again).

  30. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    Making Chamberlain the long man accomplishes 3 things.

    1.It gives us a longman & he’s suitable because of pitch variety.
    2.It keeps him in the bullpen so the FO doesn’t lose face after making dumb absolutist statements about him.
    3.It builds up his stamina for starting in the event they need him in the role & also makes him more attractive to other GMs who might ignore the yanks’ dismal ambition for him & want to deal for him to make him start (I guess that’s four things,oh well).

  31. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
    lol, sounds like this chef has character, no?

    Speaking of japanese, do you ever go to soba nippon in the city? The owners are very nice and accomodating. Great handmade soba, actually they are friends of Matsui’s parents and made Matsui’s lunch every day when he lived in NY. They have a great buffet on Saturdays.

    ////
    I guess that’s one way to look at it. He does have a miserly face but he can really slice the fish!I have heard of that restaurant but haven’t been.I had really good soba a couple times in the east village at Soba-ya,very good.haven’t been to the city lately but have a conference coming up maybe I will check out.where is the restaurant?I guess if matsui approved it has to be good,right?I still miss him.
    ______
    It’s on 52nd between 5th and 6th. It has a lot of homestyle dishes.

    Soba-ya is very good. You should also try Soba Koh if you get the chance, further east than Soba-ya on 5th street. Very serene vs. Soba-ya’s enjoyable sort of chaos. Also great green tea mousse and black sesame pudding. However, I haven’t been for a while. I hope it is still there. In this economy, you never know.

    I too miss Matsui, and the hordes of Japanese fans who used to come to the Stadium to see him.

  32. blake January 30th, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    Betsy,

    If Hughes progresses from where he currently is then he’ll one of the better pitchers in the league.

  33. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    No Betsy-

    Not tryin’ to imply that at all.

    Just don’t much care for discussing contracts.

    Usually only peripherally. Not always the nuts n’ bolts of it.

    I am not tryin’ to criticize you at all.

    Please don’t take it that way.

    Not my intention.

    Peace M’am.

    :)

  34. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    f course, we are going to lock up Phil. Is there any question otherwise?

  35. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    MTU, got it – thanks for explaining!

  36. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    *Of*

  37. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    the yanks will lock up Phil Hughes you can bank on it.

  38. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    upstate kate January 30th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
    nice dreaming about baseball, but time to grab the dog, meet some friends and go for a ski!
    ___
    Have fun!

    I need to also go get some things done momentarily. Plus, this discussion is making me hungry. :)

  39. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    i was against the lee contract from the start. we have too many guys under huge contracts for 2014+ imo. i think lee is good but likely to miss time b/c of his back as he ages and this would hurt the value of the contract.
    Lee’s contract standing alone might have been fine, but paying him plus jeter plus arod plus tex plus cc in 2014 is getting to be alot of commitment to aging players and i didnt want us to add lee to the list.

  40. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Betsy-

    You’re quite welcome.

    I did offer you my snowblower.

    You should have grabbed it while you had the chance, huh ?

    :)

  41. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    It’s on 52nd between 5th and 6th. It has a lot of homestyle dishes.

    Soba-ya is very good. You should also try Soba Koh if you get the chance, further east than Soba-ya on 5th street. Very serene vs. Soba-ya’s enjoyable sort of chaos. Also great green tea mousse and black sesame pudding. However, I haven’t been for a while. I hope it is still there. In this economy, you never know.

    I too miss Matsui, and the hordes of Japanese fans who used to come to the Stadium to see him.
    ///

    TY YF!I many stay at Kitano when there,so maybe I can make it a Japanese themed few days!

  42. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    Yankeesfem, yes – if it was a sure thing, they would have locked him up this year. It’s still very reasonable for the Yankees to want to see if Phil can improve and become what they think as a mainstay in the rotation. My guess is they expect that to happen and will be very glad to try and lock him up, but it’s never any guarantee with a young pitcher that they will develop as hoped. 2011 is a big year.

    Blake, I guess it depends how much he improves; he’d have to improve a lot for me. Anyway, I know we disagree on him, so we don’t have to re-hash it. I kind of think of Phil as the key to the season because AJ is who he is – maybe he’ll improve, but if he does, he’s not going to be better (very likely) than he was in 2009. He’s not turning his career around like Schilling did. Whereas Phil, while I have doubts, still at this point has high upside to become one of the best.

  43. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    MTU, if I grabbed it, I’d probably lose an arm, lol. Francesca led off one of his recent shows about how dangerous those things are……….and I’m a klutz, lol. I think I’m going to hope for some freak heat wave because these mounds of snow are pretty unbelievable, lol. We’re literally running out of places to put snow – I don’t think we can afford another snow storm!

  44. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
    i was against the lee contract from the start. we have too many guys under huge contracts for 2014+ imo. i think lee is good but likely to miss time b/c of his back as he ages and this would hurt the value of the contract.
    Lee’s contract standing alone might have been fine, but paying him plus jeter plus arod plus tex plus cc in 2014 is getting to be alot of commitment to aging players and i didnt want us to add lee to the list.
    ///
    I never really wanted this guy.he would have blocked ManBan or Betances in the long-short run & I’m down on my knees praising heaven that the yanks did not send away Montero for Lee.

  45. YsGuy January 30th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    at this point, when po and mo and jeter are gone, cano and hughes are the home-grown heroes. no way i see them let hughes go unless he takes a huge step backward. and i expect things to go the other way this year. i see phil turning it on this year and becoming a solid #2 and taking home some serious steinbrenner coin after it’s over!

  46. blake January 30th, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    Long men don’t pitch a lot for good teams….that’s why Mitre’s sinker was somewhat inconsistent last year., he didn’t pitch enough. If the Yanks don’t want Joba starting for physical concerns then I doubt they’ll want him throwing 3 or 4 innings in relief either and he’s more valuable pitching the 7th than every now and then as a long guy.

  47. mick January 30th, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Damaso Marte’s three year deal has proven to be a mistake.
    =========================
    debatable. 12m for 3 years and a ring, hmmmmmm…..

  48. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
    MTU, if I grabbed it, I’d probably lose an arm, lol. Francesca led off one of his recent shows about how dangerous those things are……….and I’m a klutz, lol. I think I’m going to hope for some freak heat wave because these mounds of snow are pretty unbelievable, lol. We’re literally running out of places to put snow – I don’t think we can afford another snow storm!

    ////
    Betsy we are not getting rid of the snow anytime soon.at least it’s still white.wait a few more days when the soot & grime have really had their way with it.won’t be pretty as it is now,but inconvenient & ugly.we have a 2-car garage & my wife’s other car is always in the driveway.I had to dig my wife’s other car,that sits in the driveway,out from under the avalanche or let it rust.it wasn’t easy,because the group that takes care of the driveway for us pushed mounds around the outdoor car & away from the garage.though the car still has it’s own little igloo fortress around it,it’s no longer got a snow ceiling.

  49. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    Betsy-

    “I don’t think we can afford another snow storm!”

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you better get used to that idea too.

    You guys broke all records for Jan. I believe.

    Yikes.

    :(

  50. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    J Alfred, it’s already looking ugly. In the parking lot at work, you don’t want to leave at lunchtime because finding a spot is gold – with all the snow there, the # of spots has been reduced. I don’t envy what you had to do with your wife’s car – and that snow is packed, hard; it must have taken you a long time to dig the car out. The guys that plow our driveway have done the best they can, but when I back out from the garage, I’m always driving over some snow and probably grass. There’s only so much you can plow without killing the driveway. I’m afraid to see the place after the snow melts. The grass and driveway (everyones, not just ours) will undoubtedly be torn up.

  51. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    Blake,

    Good point about Mitre’s sinker not sinking b/c of lack of workload.

    YsGuy,
    What were potential dates being bandied for Trenton meetup? I must have missed the post.

  52. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    MTU, yikes is right. We have another system coming our way mid-week, but it appears to be a mix and not all snow. Last night, as I walked out from the restaurant, I saw it was snowing and I just was like “are you kidding?”. I mean, it was really no big deal, but holy cow…………

  53. 86w183 January 30th, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    I tossed out the possibilities of May 15 or 22 because I will be up there about that time.. 15th for certain and could stretch it to the 22nd.

    I’m 1,000 miles away, so if there is something the sooner a date is chosen the better.

    BTW, is there a hotel safe walking distance from the park in Trenton?

  54. mick January 30th, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Marte was a huge reason why we won the WS, so I’m not complaining about his contract.
    ==========================================================
    # Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Ok, the Marte contract was bad, but not the trade – let me clarify that.
    ======================================================
    Make up your mind…

  55. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Our driveway too is problematic. Plowers did a good job, as far as what they plowed, but I can’t back out of the garage into the driveway far enough before bumping against a towering wall of snow. Just have to coax the car forward and backwards to straighten out enough to point the front of the car out in order to drive it down the driveway. My old Toyota, which no longer runs, is sitting in the driveway buried in snow. I am so afraid the car will rust, but it is buried until the sun thaws it out, I am afraid.

  56. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    Betsy-

    As I stated earlier. I really do miss NY cuisine.

    One of the things I do not miss is the Winter.

    I can still remember one year when we lived in Queens when I was growing. Woke up to 34 inches on the ground and drigts everywhere.

    Looked like Alaska not NY.

    It was sometime in the 60′s.

    Noreasters are not that uncommon in NY but this many major storms is truly record breaking.

    The winter of 10/11 will be remembered for a long time.

    I hope for your sake it’s not the beginning of a trend.

  57. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    blake January 30th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
    Long men don’t pitch a lot for good teams….that’s why Mitre’s sinker was somewhat inconsistent last year., he didn’t pitch enough. If the Yanks don’t want Joba starting for physical concerns then I doubt they’ll want him throwing 3 or 4 innings in relief either and he’s more valuable pitching the 7th than every now and then as a long guy.

    ////
    He can throw the short inning when he isn’t being called on to suture the game when needed.I don’t really want him to be a long man,but that’d be a good cover for building him back up.I really don’t buy his arm as an open & shut case in terms of not starting.

  58. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    edit: “growing up”. Sorry.

  59. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Shesh. Brain dead. “24 ” not 34″. GB strikes again.

  60. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    86w183 January 30th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
    I tossed out the possibilities of May 15 or 22 because I will be up there about that time.. 15th for certain and could stretch it to the 22nd.

    I’m 1,000 miles away, so if there is something the sooner a date is chosen the better.

    BTW, is there a hotel safe walking distance from the park in Trenton.
    _____
    There’s a Marriot, which I believe is fairly close by.

    http://www.marriott.com/hotels.....-downtown/

    Boston is at Yanks the 15th, so that won’t work for me. May 20 and 21 are night games, which I would do. Only day game is May 22nd vs. Portland. Is day better? And is anyone else interested?

    I have Yanks-Mets tickets, but am not a big fan of interleague play, so will sell them if we do end up having a Trenton outing.

  61. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    MTU, IMO, though, every region of the country has it’s own weather-related issues…………Southeast has hurricanes and ungodly humidity, Mid-West has tornadoes (and they don’t have easy winters either) and out West, there are earthquakes (well, not weather related, but still). I love the change in seasons, although personally the only season I really love is Fall. Spring in the northeast is overrated- it’s chilly and it rains, a LOT. Summer is ok, but I hate humidity, so it really depends on what kind of summer we get. I would never move from NY…….

  62. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    Betsy – more snow coming Tuesday & Wednesday.
    YF – I really sympathize :(

  63. Joe from Long Island January 30th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    Ysguy – from 11:54 on last thread – (sorry it’s taken me a while to respond, I’ve been doing a spackling project in my house) –

    Well, I can think of a few teams, besides Philly, where Santana would not be a no. 1 – SF, Detroit with Verlander, Seattle with Felix, Yanks with CC and Hughes (I’m optimistic Phil will continue to grow, but that’s another discussion, I know).

    But, I’m just not optimistic that Santana’s going to continue to be a top pitcher. Now, one can easily argue that his decline has been due to the aforementioned injuries; that’s fair. But, between that, and his most recent successes being in the NL, I’m concerned that he’s seen his best days. And, if that’s the case, then I think he is overpriced as a backend starter.

    Am I overly pessismistic about him? Maybe. But, that’s how I feel. If he comes back in June and blazes away, then I’m wrong, and it’s great for the Mets.

  64. 86w183 January 30th, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    yankeefeminista —

    Which date(s)? How many? Location & cost?

    I might buy those tickets. Wish there was a way to contact each other directly though the site as many other sites allow

  65. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Betsy-

    It almost doesn’t seem to matter where you live.

    People love the Fall.

    Certainly my favorite.

  66. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    86w183 January 30th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
    yankeefeminista —

    Which date(s)? How many? Location & cost?

    I might buy those tickets. Wish there was a way to contact each other directly though the site as many other sites allow.
    ______
    Ysguy, weigh in. Wasn’t this your idea? Anyone else in? Did you want to go to a single game? Day? Night? I am in if it is in Trenton.

  67. Ruby Tuesday January 30th, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    You are correct:

    nothing is certain — except for the inevitability that the R*d S*x will be the 2011 World Champions .

  68. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    J Alfred, hopefully just a light dusting?

    MTU, that’s right. IMO, September/October is the nicest time of year – anywhere. I love everything about Fall………I love crunching on the leaves on the ground, too, lol.

  69. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    Fall’s my favorite too. Leaves changing color and October baseball! :D

  70. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    Betsy,hold that thought!
    good one,all.

  71. blake January 30th, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    J Alfred,

    I see what you’re saying but if they think he can hold up as a long man then I’d just prefer that he just start again. I think it’s becoming more and more evident that there are health related reasons behind him throwing shorter durations……

  72. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 1:16 pm
    J Alfred, hopefully just a light dusting?

    MTU, that’s right. IMO, September/October is the nicest time of year – anywhere. I love everything about Fall………I love crunching on the leaves on the ground, too, lol.
    ____
    I assume a wintry mix means nothing substantial. Although, I have to admit that I am actually getting used to this weather. lol, that I now consider 20 degrees warm weather. :)

  73. blake January 30th, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    Fear not…..Lupica thinks Andy will pitch again, and sooner than later. I hope this news makes everyone feel as confident as it does me ;)

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

  74. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    The question with Joba though is–is this a chronic condition or will his arm come back to a certain extent if not in terms of velo, at least in terms of durability?

    Also, you would think the media would question Joba about the shoulder once pitchers and catchers report. It will be interesting to see how he responds when asked.

  75. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    I have all along been a firm believer that Andy will come back. It was clear after the playoffs when he was interviewed that he expressed that he was not done w/pitching, both by what he said and how he said it. I still think only an injury would keep him from pitching.

  76. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    I will catch you all later. I need to go do errands. Have a good one.

  77. blake January 30th, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    I have all along been a firm believer that Andy will come back. It was clear after the playoffs when he was interviewed that he expressed that he was not done w/pitching, both by what he said and how he said it. I still think only an injury would keep him from pitching.”

    Agreed…too much left in the tank

  78. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    ARod is hitting bombs on mlb net, 98 HR Derby.

  79. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    Blake-

    I am not saying I agree with it but it just seems that the Yankees have decided that Joba’s shoulder can no longer handle a whole season of starting.

    That appears to be their call.

    It’s not a question of wether he can bring it for a few pitches or even a few innings.

    It about the stress of a full season.

    Let’s not forget that he has several bouts of tendinitis going back to his college days.

    I do wonder if a strengthening program at a place like API would have taken care of it ?

    Guess we’ll never find out and the Yankees don’t seem to want to take the risk.

  80. RhapsodyInBlue January 30th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    A trip down memory lane with Lupica.

    http://assets.nydailynews.com/.....e_1211.jpg

  81. Betsy January 30th, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    It’s actually a gorgeous day out today; it could be in the 30′s for all I know, but it feels warm, lol.

    One thing that concerns me when I drive is the branches laden with ice/snow. I try to avoid the lanes (if I can) closest to the trees because I’ve read too many stories of branches just collapsing under the weight of the snow

  82. ac1 January 30th, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    If A-Rod’s down year produced 125 RBIs, ill take it.

  83. West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    I wonder if Joba’s shoulder issue is something that would be physiologically apparent in a trade physical?

  84. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    WCYF-

    IMHO.

    I kind of doubt it.

    I think it’s more a durability issue not so much structural.

    He was cleared to pitch by Dr. Andrews.

    If there were structural concerns I very much doubt he would have cleared that exam.

    Shoulder injuries, when they occur, can be career ending.

    No so much with other parts of the arm.

  85. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 2:20 pm

    # RhapsodyInBlue January 30th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    A trip down memory lane with Lupica.

    http://assets.nydailynews.com/…..e_1211.jpg

    ———————————-

    Lupica is such a joke.

  86. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    I really don’t buy his arm as an open & shut case in terms of not starting.

    —————————-

    Yea if it was then he wouldn’t have been competing for a job in 2010.

  87. West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    Thanks MTU. If true, it appears then that Cashman’s connection of Joba’s drop in velocity as a starter to his shoulder issue is just an opinion in an attempt to explain it. And it’s odd Andrew cleared him. I’d love to know another sports doctor’s/shoulder expert’s opinion on that type of issue and what the typical effects are going forward.

  88. Doreen January 30th, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    I am in for a Trenton game. I prefer a day game, but if the only option is a night game, I’ll figure something out.

    So far, I can’t think of why May 22nd would not be good date for me.

    :)

    ****

    The farther away I get from Lee going to the Phillies, the more fine I am with it. Things will work out differently that’s all; and it may end up working better inthelongrun. :)

  89. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    I have had shoulder tendinitis in the past.

    Speaking from personal experience it was like an extreme form of fatigue , and a feeling of “deadness” in the particular muscle group.

    It took several weeks of rest and many tabs of celebrex to get it to go away.

    I’m no Dr. but it must much be much more difficult for a pitcher to deal with since they are required to throw every five days.

    Could it be managed ? who knows.

    Maybe the Yankees just don’t want to roll the dice with Joba fearing a more permanent injury. It may just be he’s prone to it for whatever reason.

    And the case he had might have been pretty severe.

    Shoulder damage is career threatening.

  90. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    “Problem is, we rarely know which is right and which is wrong until the very end.”

    That would be a B-I-N-G-O!

    That’s also the reason that long-term contracts to pitchers who are already 32 make me very skitterish. It’s the same reason I don’t mourn when we don’t get those pitchers. So shorter-term contracts to players who are currently the bomb seem to be a good way to go. Think Soriano. :)

    In honor of my theory that you do not look back and cannot make accurate statements about whether a trade ended up being a good thing by looking at what the traded party has done elsewhere (sorry but you cannot automatically transfer performance from one team to another) I have composed a song about the best way to deal with trades.

    WHAT WE DID FOR GLOVE

    Kiss our guy goodbye,
    The sweetness and the sorrow.
    Wish him luck, not much, that’s true.
    But we can’t regret
    What we did for glove, what we did for glove.

    Our new guy seems fly.
    His gift is our tomorrow.
    It’s time to ring in the new,
    Now we must forget, what we did for glove,
    What we did for glove.

    Gone,
    Player X is gone.
    Forget he was born.
    Time to snuff that ember.

    Kiss our guy goodbye,
    We have a new tomorrow.
    We did what we had to do.
    Just forget, don’t regret
    What we did for
    glove

    What we did for
    glove!!!!!

  91. BIG AL January 30th, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    MTU -

    I’m glad we did not get Lee, and certainly not for 7 years.

    I doubt the Phillies will get 3 good years from him.

    If you look at the past 5 years, you don’t know which Cliff Lee you’ll get, the pitcher that was 22-3 in ’08, or the pitcher that was a combined 45-41 the other 4 years. Lee for the most part has good ERA’s, but in just the past 2 years he’s 26-22, which in my opinion is not worth the money he was offered.

    I believe he’s going to decline, rather than get better, so this may turn out to be a blessing he didn’t sign with the Yankees, JMHO.

  92. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    I believe it is because we got virtually no snow last year and you guys got all of it that I am not lamenting our snowfall whatsoever. I think I may have mentioned that we are one inch away from setting the record for the 3rd largest snowfall in the history of the state. I thought we’d get that inch this weekend but it seems that we will definitely get it in the upcoming week.

    I’m lucky in that the guy who does my landscaping also does the plowing, and he is very efficient. Yes, the town does undo his handywork with that big bank at the end up the driveway (and making it worse, my driveway tips downward to the garage. But what I’ve started to do, when I have advance notice of a storm, is backing into the garage so that I have a better shot of forging that snowbank with my car. I think it’s a lot easier to aim and drive than to try to back out.

  93. BIG AL January 30th, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    trisha -

    Please put that to music, sing it, and post for us that love your songs.

  94. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2011 at 3:06 pm

    “I believe he’s going to decline, rather than get better, so this may turn out to be a blessing he didn’t sign with the Yankees, JMHO”

    Big Al definitely agree with you. But remaining true to myself, I definitely will not look at his record in Philly (especially if he’s great for a long time, ha ha) and decide that is what he would have done in the Bronx. Who knows if he would have thrown harder, had to work longer, etc., because it’s the AL East.

    So I kissed that one off for good when it didn’t happen.

  95. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2011 at 3:06 pm

    Big Al, if I can find a way to do it, I will!

    :)

  96. Stoneburner January 30th, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
    # RhapsodyInBlue January 30th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    A trip down memory lane with Lupica.

    http://assets.nydailynews.com/…..e_1211.jpg

    ———————————-

    Lupica is such a joke.
    _________

    The real great thing is that he gets all high and mighty of PEDS – yet the moron wrote a book about the Summer of 1998 and McGwire’s and Sosa’s pursuit. That he had no idea what was going on at the time – and any good journalist or columnist with half a brain should have at least seen the warning signs – shows that the man is really incompetent and a revisionist hypocrite. He should give back all the proceeds he received from writing that book – which would be about $13.12 – or something along those lines.

  97. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    Big Al, I’m sure you figured out that’s a take off from the song from Chorus Line.

    :)

  98. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    Al-

    I wanted Lee. Bigtime. But in my mind I had already written off a certain portion of his contract.

    So that’s just how I viewed it.

    That’s pretty much the way I view most long term contracts.

    Doesn’t mean I think it’s bad. Just might be the cost of doing
    buisness. The Yankees can afford that sort of thing IMO.

    What Lee did stunned most folks. Certainly not the expected path.

    What would have been absolutely unforgiveable IMO is if we had surrendered Montero for Lee and he turned out to be a rental.

    Things usually have a way of working work out for the best.

    So. Onwards and upwards.

    :)

  99. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 3:15 pm

    # MTU January 30th, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    I have had shoulder tendinitis in the past.

    Speaking from personal experience it was like an extreme form of fatigue , and a feeling of “deadness” in the particular muscle group.

    It took several weeks of rest and many tabs of celebrex to get it to go away.

    I’m no Dr. but it must much be much more difficult for a pitcher to deal with since they are required to throw every five days.

    Could it be managed ? who knows.

    Maybe the Yankees just don’t want to roll the dice with Joba fearing a more permanent injury. It may just be he’s prone to it for whatever reason.

    And the case he had might have been pretty severe.

    Shoulder damage is career threatening.

    ——————————–

    Shoulder damage is career threatening the thing is though they brough him back at the end of 08 and had him pitch out of the pen. Wouldn’t it have been wise to just shut him down if the injury was that serious?

  100. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    Actually it is an absolutely beautiful song in its own right.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXW480B4ENs

    The real version makes me teary, my version not so much!

    :)

  101. MTU January 30th, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    AAO-

    You’ll have to ask the Yankee’s front office that one.

    ;)

  102. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    # Stoneburner January 30th, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
    # RhapsodyInBlue January 30th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    A trip down memory lane with Lupica.

    http://assets.nydailynews.com/…..e_1211.jpg

    ———————————-

    Lupica is such a joke.
    _________

    The real great thing is that he gets all high and mighty of PEDS – yet the moron wrote a book about the Summer of 1998 and McGwire’s and Sosa’s pursuit. That he had no idea what was going on at the time – and any good journalist or columnist with half a brain should have at least seen the warning signs – shows that the man is really incompetent and a revisionist hypocrite. He should give back all the proceeds he received from writing that book – which would be about $13.12 – or something along those lines.

    ——————————————-

    Lupica along with his other journalists all played the idk game when the PED stuff hit the fan. No I’m not saying they should have recklessly accused players because that would have been foolish but given the access that they had you mean to tell me none of them had a clue and now they want to play judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to the HOF.

  103. West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    There has always been so much confusion about Joba since he exploded on the scene in 2007. He was great, he was not so great. Joba Rules right or wrong? Injured or not? Starter or reliever?

    I would love to have been a fly on Cashman’s wall all this time, just to hear the discussions that must have gone on internally about Joba. I would imagine there was no consensus there as well.

  104. West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    “The son of civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr. is interested in buying the New York Mets, according to a published report”. — ESPN

  105. BIG AL January 30th, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    MTU -

    I know you wanted Lee, but, keep in mind he never did that well against the AL East, and has has back problems on and off, this could be a major concern, or nothing, who knows.

    Given what we know, and the choices available to us, I’d rather have Montero and the Killer B’s being highly productive for many years, than Lee productive for us for just a few short years.

    Time will tell how the deal went for Philly, good or bad, but my gut says we lucked out not getting him.

  106. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    WC, one could attempt to make an argument that Joba needed more guidance than he got. Not all 21-year-olds are made the same, and not all 21-year-olds have had the same life experiences. Phil Hughes was 21 when he was 16. Joba not so much. Maybe the organization needed to do a better job of figuring out which of its players needed some strong help and guidance, and then finding a way to make sure they go it.

    Not sure they didn’t. Just a thought.

  107. BIG AL January 30th, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    Must be a lot of money in the preacher trade.

  108. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    :)

    Lord knows the Mets could use a little holy intervention!

  109. BIG AL January 30th, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    trisha -

    Having met, and spoken with both, I’ll say my opimion is Phil is, and was a very mature young man, and Joba acted like a 16 year old would. I could be wrong, given my limited exposure to Joba, but, just the impression I received.

  110. West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    Trisha, that’s very possible. There are so many theories and one never really knows if a prospect will not work out, for whatever reason. An anonymous professional scout is quoted as saying this, not about Joba, but in general. “You can’t really scout work ethic and the emotional side of things with confidence. We ask the right questions, I think, but you never know.”

  111. BIG AL January 30th, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    trisha -

    Thanks for the link, great song, it’s as if you where looking into someone’s heart.

  112. Stoneburner January 30th, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 3:22 pm
    # Stoneburner January 30th, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
    # RhapsodyInBlue January 30th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    A trip down memory lane with Lupica.

    http://assets.nydailynews.com/…..e_1211.jpg

    ———————————-

    Lupica is such a joke.
    _________

    The real great thing is that he gets all high and mighty of PEDS – yet the moron wrote a book about the Summer of 1998 and McGwire’s and Sosa’s pursuit. That he had no idea what was going on at the time – and any good journalist or columnist with half a brain should have at least seen the warning signs – shows that the man is really incompetent and a revisionist hypocrite. He should give back all the proceeds he received from writing that book – which would be about $13.12 – or something along those lines.

    ——————————————-

    Lupica along with his other journalists all played the idk game when the PED stuff hit the fan. No I’m not saying they should have recklessly accused players because that would have been foolish but given the access that they had you mean to tell me none of them had a clue and now they want to play judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to the HOF.

    ___________

    Agree – but I go further – the guy is in the newspaper business – idk – part of the job is finding the truth or reporting on a story – the guy – along with all these other revisionist moralists now just did not do their job. They cannot now act all shocked and outrage – I mean come on – Luis Gonzales – 50 plus homeruns.

    And here is the thing about it – especially for Lupica – you needed to at least suspect it – or else you were a complete idiot – so DO NOT write a book about the Summer of 1998 praising the homerun chase – he should have refrained from writing that book/project.

  113. West Coast Yankee Fan January 30th, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    Correction, not buy alone but as part of a group:

    “Martin Luther King III, who runs the Atlanta-based King Center for Nonviolent Social Change, is part of a group wishing to purchase a share of the club from principal owner Fred Wilpon. The group also includes television executive Larry Meli, ex-Met Ed Kranepool and Donn Clendenon Jr., the son of another ex-Met, the New York Post reported on Sunday”.

  114. BIG AL January 30th, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    New post >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  115. Stoneburner January 30th, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    Any potential investor/investor group is going to want an equal part of the pie – the Wilpons will have a hard time just selling 20-25% – plus they came off as desperate with their “public” announcement on Friday – very little leverage

  116. Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    # Stoneburner January 30th, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 3:22 pm
    # Stoneburner January 30th, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Against All Odds January 30th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
    # RhapsodyInBlue January 30th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    A trip down memory lane with Lupica.

    http://assets.nydailynews.com/…..e_1211.jpg

    ———————————-

    Lupica is such a joke.
    _________

    The real great thing is that he gets all high and mighty of PEDS – yet the moron wrote a book about the Summer of 1998 and McGwire’s and Sosa’s pursuit. That he had no idea what was going on at the time – and any good journalist or columnist with half a brain should have at least seen the warning signs – shows that the man is really incompetent and a revisionist hypocrite. He should give back all the proceeds he received from writing that book – which would be about $13.12 – or something along those lines.

    ——————————————-

    Lupica along with his other journalists all played the idk game when the PED stuff hit the fan. No I’m not saying they should have recklessly accused players because that would have been foolish but given the access that they had you mean to tell me none of them had a clue and now they want to play judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to the HOF.

    ___________

    Agree – but I go further – the guy is in the newspaper business – idk – part of the job is finding the truth or reporting on a story – the guy – along with all these other revisionist moralists now just did not do their job. They cannot now act all shocked and outrage – I mean come on – Luis Gonzales – 50 plus homeruns.

    And here is the thing about it – especially for Lupica – you needed to at least suspect it – or else you were a complete idiot – so DO NOT write a book about the Summer of 1998 praising the homerun chase – he should have refrained from writing that book/project.

    —————————————

    Exactly they all pat themselves on the back when it comes to digging for the truth but yet none of them knew something was going on. I remember watching Canseco when he joined the Yankees being interviewed for Fox 5 in the dugout . As he sat there answering questions I couldn’t help but think how jacked up he was on steroids. During the 2000s how many commentators would make jokes or state that the balls are juiced as well as the players. SMH

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