What’s Pettitte worth, plus some notes and links
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 31, 2011 
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This afternoon, Ken Rosenthal wondered whether $12 million would be enough for the Yankees to sign Andy Pettitte (assuming Pettitte actually decides to pitch this season). Rosenthal used Hiroki Kuroda — who got exactly one year, $12 million from the Dodgers — as a comparison.
Kuroda, who turns 36 on Feb. 10, was 11-13 with a 3.39 ERA last season, working 196 1/3 innings. Pettitte, who turns 39 on June 15, was 11-3 with a 3.28 ERA, working only 129 innings in the regular season.
Rosenthal noted that Kuroda pitched in a much weaker division, and Pettitte pitched in a toucher park. He also noted that Pettitte was injured last season.
To me it’s pretty even. Kuroda doesn’t have nearly Pettitte’s track record, but he is three years younger. Pettitte was better than Kuroda last season, but he was also injured through most of the second half. A $12-million offer would be a raise from what Pettitte made last season, and that seems pretty fair to me.
But I must admit, there’s a lot about this situation that’s difficult to predict.
Some other links and notes from today.
• Cool little nugget from Cliff Corcoran who notes that Russ Springer retired as the last active player to have played for a losing Yankees team. That was all the way back in 1992, and the Yankees haven’t had a losing season since.
• Good stuff from Buster Olney, who looked at which individual pitches — CC Sabathia’s curveball, for example — were the most effective last season. The most effective curveball, by the way, belonged to Jose Veras. Admittedly, a lot of this data depends on the way a certain pitcher uses a certain pitch.
• From Olney’s usual list of links comes this story about Twins pitcher Brian Duensing, who’s wife was at that Omaha high school where a kid shot his principal and assistant principal earlier this month.
• Derek Jeter isn’t the only American League shortstop to land a four-year deal this offseason. Alexi Ramirez just landed a four-year deal with the White Sox.
Associated Press photo
You have to believe Andy will get a little more than 12 million if he comes back
If I was Andy, I’d want more than 12 million to pitch.
It’s all about leverage.
A few years ago, the Yankees had the hammer and (correctly) used it.
This time, Andy has the hammer.
I’d ask for 15 and wouldn’t sign for a dime under 13.5.
It ain’t personal. It’s just business.
SJ – No doubt. If he does decide to come back, he has the hammer and the Yanks will have no choice but to give him what he asks for.
I think $15m is reasonable.
SJ, just curious. If Posada turns in a .290, 25 homer, 90 RBI season in 2011, do you re-sign him for 2012 and a team option?
That’s assumming that Martin turns in the kind of sasons that he’s had the last two years.
Did we just sign Freddy Garcia?
Yeah, minor league deal with incentives, YanFem
cashmen is terrible, freddy garcia is a piece of garbage.
Watching a movie, and just thought I saw a headline. Thanks, GB7.
“cashmen is terrible, freddy garcia is a piece of garbage.”
Dumbest. Comment. Ever. (close anyway)
yanFem,
minor league deal but 1.5M guaranteed. So there will likely be some incentive for the Yanks to keep him.
Especially since s/he misspelled the GM’s name.
BD, making the team is a condition precedent to the guarantee.
Sure thing YanFem.
If he gets cut then he gets nothing I believe…as does Colon. Really very little risk. I’m a little surprised Garcia took a minor league deal….but if that means he wants to be in NY then I Iike that
From MLB-Rumors-R-Us”
“Yankees Reach Agreement With Freddy Garcia
By Mark Polishuk [January 31 at 8:10pm CST]
The Yankees have agreed to sign Freddy Garcia to a minor league contract, reports ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick (Twitter link). The deal will pay Garcia $1.5MM if he makes the Major League roster, and the total value of the contract could be worth $5.1MM if Garcia reaches all his start-based incentive plateaus, up to 30 starts. Garcia is represented by Peter Greenberg.
Garcia, 35, expressed his preference to pitch for the Yankees earlier this week, saying it would be “an inspiration” to pitch in the pressurized environments of both New York and the AL East. The Mets, Orioles and White Sox all showed some degree of interest in Garcia this winter, though Garcia ruled out a return to Chicago earlier today.
The veteran right-hander posted a 4.64 ERA, 1.98 K/BB ratio and a 40.7% ground ball rate in 28 starts with the White Sox last season. Garcia threw 157 Major League innings in 2010 — he pitched in just 129 innings combined over the prior three seasons due to nagging shoulder injuries.
Garcia joins the likes of Bartolo Colon, Ivan Nova, Andrew Brackman, Sergio Mitre and even Mark Prior in the battle for the final two starting spots in the Yankee rotation. This competition could be limited to just the number five spot, of course, should Andy Pettitte announce his return.”
Fangraphs added heat maps, these things are cool as hell:
http://www.fangraphs.com/heatm.....#038;pal=1
From Daily News
” will earn $1.5 million if he makes the Yanks? roster, with slightly more than $3.5 million available in incentives if he makes up to 30 big-league starts. A source said he contract also contains an “out” clause by March 29 if the righty isn’t going to make the big-league roster.”
pat, that’s not a bad deal for either party. Who says that Cashman can’t be inventive?
Great no risk move. This is what we needed.
Garcia is good insurance for the back of the rotation. He also seems like he wants to be here.
The only way he blocks one of the kid starters is he has a great spring, which if he does, gives the young arms a little more time until.
I don’t know how anyone can criticize this move, but I’m sure they will.
Incentives work out to $1.2 mil for every 10 starts. If he makes that many starts for NYYs, either he’s doing very well, or, the season fell apart at the seams.
One thing about Garcia being at the back of the rotation, the Yankees can be a little more selective about who they pitch him against.
Ledger_Yankees Star Ledger
Can’t understand any outrage over a minor lg deal. It’s liking being livid that you blew a buck on a losing PowerBall ticket.
Who’s outraged?
Sounds like another good move by Cashman. Two very veteran pitchers who can compete with the kids. If Andy does come back, there will only be need for one, but it is good to have guys ready ‘just in case’, and somehow someone always goes down.
Who’s outraged?
–
That moron 15 comments up? People on twitter?
You match up Freddy Garcia against most teams 4 & 5 starters and he gives us a good chance to win the game with our pen. If he’s healthy, this is a good move.
He gives up a lot of hits but his walks aren’t offensive.
I didn’t see him pitch much last year, but if he’s still got a bit of the bulldog in him that he used to have it will be great.
I REALLY want Andy to come back, but I feel better about the rotation tonight than I did before.
Then, there is this:
“@Ledger_Yankees when other teams do it people call it smart and sensible. Yankees do it people call it desperate”
“That moron 15 comments up? People on twitter?”
Twitter does have a lot of morons.
It’s “whose wife”, not “who’s wife”.
Chad, learn some grammar.
This is Boston w/Smoltz/Penny all over again, with $10 mil vs zero risk
That moron is outraged about everything. He’s useless.
That’s a tough call GB. A year like hat would definitely give him some leverage for a new deal and give the Yankees a lot to think about.
Thanks, SJ. Not really as far-fetched as it sounds. I don’t put anything past him. Like Jeter and Rodriguez…a lot of pride and ego to prove everyone wrong.
Nice to see that Casahman signed the player who publically stated his preference to play with them.
Brian–in case you are reading this….
I too would prefer to play for hte Yankees and will decline any offers from other teams. Please send me a $1.5MM contract via e-mail. You can reach me through Chad.
Thank you.
# BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 10:47 pm
Nice to see that Casahman signed the player who publically stated his preference to play with them.
Brian–in case you are reading this….
I too would prefer to play for hte Yankees and will decline any offers from other teams. Please send me a $1.5MM contract via e-mail. You can reach me through Chad.
Thank you.
———————————
Yes once Bojo is in the fold print the WS tickets. Cash get on your job we have a live one here
We’re not going to win with a bunch of 5-6 inning pitchers, no matter how good our pen is supposed to be.
Just look at what the Twins did last year.
It’s gonna be a loooooooooooooong year folks.
“It’s gonna be a loooooooooooooong year folks.”
They’ll make the playoff. Book it.
Against All Odds January 31st, 2011 at 10:49 pm
++++++++++++++
You can get your agent’s share once deal is closed. Thank you.
We’re not going to win with a bunch of 5-6 inning pitchers, no matter how good our pen is supposed to be.
–
???? Almost all pitchers in the majors are 5-6 inning pitchers. Furthermore, Garcia pitched into the 7th inning 12 times last year.
We’re also under the assumption that our pitching staff is healthy the entire year.. If CC goes down or Hughes doesn’t progress, we’re done. We have no windows with this staff.
The 2010 Yankee starters averaged 6 innings per game, and now we have a better bullpen. People are stupid.
you’re right almost all are.. there are more 3 4 5 guys than there are 1 2 guys. thanks for that observation.
I like this deal…History shows that it typically takes 6-7 starters to get through a season due to injuries and cuts.
Okay, I just made up that number, but it sounds good, right?
Anyway, the more depth we have to get us through until July 31 and “Santana time,” the better.
# BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 10:52 pm
Against All Odds January 31st, 2011 at 10:49 pm
++++++++++++++
You can get your agent’s share once deal is closed. Thank you.
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*adjusts tie and smiles* Vegas here I come
What did the 2010 Yankees do?
What did the 2010 Yankees do?
–
Go to the playoffs and were 2 games out from the WS.
Against All Odds January 31st, 2011 at 10:55 pm
*adjusts tie and smiles* Vegas here I come
++++++++++++
Get Charlie Sheen on the phone and book it. He knows how to throw the best parties.
MoRings42 January 31st, 2011 at 10:55 pm
What did the 2010 Yankees do?
++++++++++++++
IIRC, they played baseball.
Is this like a socratic method where you destroy your own arguments?
PeterBotte Garcia won more games than Burnett last yr, made more starts than Pettitte. Not sure if that’s supposed to make NYY fans feel better or not.
The answer of feeling better or not probably seperates the glass half fulls from the half empties.
Jerkface January 31st, 2011 at 10:58 pm
Is this like a socratic method where you destroy your own arguments?
++++++++++
More like credability
Jerkface January 31st, 2011 at 10:54 pm
The 2010 Yankee starters averaged 6 innings per game, and now we have a better bullpen. People are stupid.
**************
Is it really necessary to call people stupid? Come on now.
typo credibility
# BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 10:57 pm
Against All Odds January 31st, 2011 at 10:55 pm
*adjusts tie and smiles* Vegas here I come
++++++++++++
Get Charlie Sheen on the phone and book it. He knows how to throw the best parties.
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Yes nice….wholesome parties with women who will one day give birth to the future leaders of the world. I run a PR firm that represents Charlie. I have to spin this somehow lol.
“We’re also under the assumption that our pitching staff is healthy the entire year.. If CC goes down or Hughes doesn’t progress, we’re done. We have no windows with this staff.”
You’re right, but the same could be said about the 2009 or 2010 staff. Our rotation would have been a mess if Sabathia had ever gotten injured, especially towards the end of the season.
I remember 2010 differently.. I remember starting off like it was still 2009 and then playing mediocre baseball the rest of the way and into the postseason.. a postseason we almost didn’t make because they were playing horrible at the end of the year..
then came the 6 inning Twins with the great pen.
Odds–
ROFLMAO
Is it really necessary to call people stupid? Come on now.
–
When they say stupid things? Yes! For example, suggesting that even with a bullpen that is now being called one of the best in the majors that the Yankees will fail because they will only get 5-6 innings out of their starters, which is all anyone ever gets.
Its applying a basic result from the rest of baseball to the yankees and counting it as a failure, it is stupid.
The Yankees postseason was never in doubt in 2010, just the division or wildcard.
I have to admit, it is fun watching Jerkface dismantle the doom and gloom child.
Freddy Garcia is a no brainer signing.
A veteran guy who knows how to pitch and, if healthy, will help this team win games.
Carig is right. Any other team makes this move, it’s “smart”.
The Yankees do it, they are “desperate”.
We really do have some dumb fans.
Odds–You wouldn’t be SR by any chance, would you?
no, the same couldn’t be said because we had 6-7 starters on both the 2009 and 2010 teams.
On this team, we have Mark Prior and Arod’s favorite BP buddy, Bartolo Colon (assuming one of them doesn’t make the team)
The Rangers averaged less than 6 innings per start. The twins averaged more innings from their starters than the Yankees, or Rangers. The rays averaged barely more and we saw the result there.
The Phillies had Halladay, Oswalt, Hamels, a supposed beastly rotation and they lost.
Odds-
If I get the Yankee contract, I’ll help you make Charlie look like a choir boy by comparison.
Just checking in.
Good news on Garcia.
Cheap insurance. It’s the right move IMO.
I like it.
“Is it really necessary to call people stupid? Come on now.”
It’s like bonus coverage; unnecessary but welcome.
The Yankees have one guy that consistently goes 7 innings. One. Thats all they ever had in 09 or 2010. Thats all most any teams have.
And guess what, no team has the Yankees offense or bullpen.
# BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 11:02 pm
Odds–
ROFLMAO
————————————
He left me in a bind man cocaine and adult film stars lol you know how difficult it is to put a twist on that.
Who is SR?
I seem to remember 2010 as a year they finished 2 wins away from the WS with CC, Pettitte, Mo, Posada, Tex, Swisher, and Arod all functioning at less than 100% in September and October, and AJ, Vazquez and Jeter pretty much non-factors due to their off-seasons.
I guess it’s all you in how you look at it.
Jerkface – it’s not polite, you can disagree in other ways than calling someone stupid.
# BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 11:08 pm
Odds-
If I get the Yankee contract, I’ll help you make Charlie look like a choir boy by comparison.
—————————–
Good we need to keep his image up which is exactly what he got in trouble for. But hey someone needs to take the fall in this situation.
Stan R….Charlie’s long-time publicist.
Jerkface – it’s not polite, you can disagree in other ways than calling someone stupid.
–
Only if they are arguing from a base of intelligence and rational thought. If you come from a stupid angle you are stupid. For example, using a stupid gimmick phrase: “6 inning twins!!” and trying to hammer that home when none of the evidence supports your theory is stupid.
I’ll be a cross between Charlie Sheen and Leslie Nielsen…
My quote will be “I like sax, and can afford it..so I listen to a lot of jazz.”
# BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 11:10 pm
Stan R….Charlie’s long-time publicist.
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No I’m not. If I was I’d be at one of those parties
The 2009 yankees had two pitchers that had over 200 innings. The 2010 Team had one.
So if AP doesn’t come back we have Nova, Garcia, Colon, Mitre, Phelps, Noesi, and Warren
available to compete for 2 spots.
That should work. Best 2 out of ST get starting jobs. 1 or 2 to the pen.
Mark Prior was signed as a Relief pitcher.
The Yankees have CC, AJ, Hughes, Garcia, Nova, Mitre, Colon, Noesi, Warren, and Phelps in the mix to start right now.
That’s 10 starting pitchers. Soon to be 11 when Andy comes back.
How many starters do you want?
# BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 11:13 pm
I’ll be a cross between Charlie Sheen and Leslie Nielsen…
My quote will be “I like sax, and can afford it..so I listen to a lot of jazz.”
———————————————————-
The back page of the Daily News would be:
BOJO…SAX ADDICT
“The 2009 yankees had two pitchers that had over 200 innings. The 2010 Team had one.”
bfd
Post stupidity on here and you will get called on it.
That’s the way it’s been since Day One on here and it ain’t changin’ now.
I can’t understand any Yankee fan being upset about this move. It goes beyond logic.
In essence we just upgraded from the potential of Mitre in the rotation aka “the apocalypse” to Freddy Garcia who is a big step up from Mitre.
It also increases competition for the rotation spots.
This signing cost nothing. I was pro-Millwood once we lost Lee, but I’ll take Garcia. The guy battled back from a lot of injuries to start 28 games last year. Tells me a lot about his guts.
The 2009 Yankees? AJ burnett and Pettitte averaged 6 innings per start. Thats not ’6-7′. Hughes averaged 6 innings per start in 2010. So lets count him. Now we have 2 going into 2011.
I don’t think age is a relevant stat in one year contracts – just performance. Andy not hitting 200 innings is far more worrisome than age (though the two could be highly related). But he was dominant when healthy last year. Anyways, Pettitte is worth far more than Kuroda. Given how much Kuroda is over paid, you are looking at at around $15 mil for Andy.
the 2010 Giants had 2 pitchers with over 200 innings and 4 pitchers with over 190 innings
Against All Odds January 31st, 2011 at 11:17 pm
The back page of the Daily News would be:
BOJO…SAX ADDICT
———————————————————-
I do it for the blow.
You give me 100 starts I’ll pitch you 200 innings. If you want to talk about 6-7 inning pitchers, you need to look at the actual length they give in games.
G. Love January 31st, 2011 at 11:17 pm
I can’t understand any Yankee fan being upset about this move. It goes beyond logic.
++++++++++++++
Actually it is pretty easy to understand. Picking up on Jerkface’s comments, they are stupid.
Jerkface January 31st, 2011 at 11:20 pm
You give me 100 starts I’ll pitch you 200 innings. If you want to talk about 6-7 inning pitchers, you need to look at the actual length they give in games.
++++++++++++
If you give me 400 starts, I’ll give you 200 innings.
Garcia doesn’t have to be a Ferrari.
A Chevy Silverado will do quite nicely.
Nite everyone.
200 innings in 35 starts is less than 6 innings per start.
If Andy comes back then the Yanks are just as good as Boston and maybe better overall.
WCYF,
Are you Emily Post? Or don’t you know who she is/was?
You know what.. hell make this easier for me.. what team won the WS that had 1 or less inning eaters on it?
You know what.. hell make this easier for me.. what team won the WS that had 1 or less inning eaters on it?
—
2006 St. Louis Cardinals
CC pitches long outings all the time. Hughes pitches long outings. Those are 2 who come to mind without Andy.
Report: Yankees ink Garcia to minor league deal
# BoJo January 31st, 2011 at 11:19 pm
Against All Odds January 31st, 2011 at 11:17 pm
The back page of the Daily News would be:
BOJO…SAX ADDICT
———————————————————-
I do it for the blow.
——————————————
Francesa would have a field day with that statement. “He likes sax….ok *shrugs shoulders and frowns face* but wat are you gonna do…he’s one heck of a pitcher. He’s probably the biggest personality in NY 2nd to me of course.”
The 2006 cardinals had 3 pitchers that went 190+ on it. The 2010 Yankees had 1 pitcher that went 190+ on it.
The 2006 cardinals had 3 pitchers that went 190+ on it. The 2010 Yankees had 1 pitcher that went 190+ on it.
–
Except only 1 of those pitchers went 6 innings PER START. And one of them was Jeff Marquis who had a 6 ERA.
Jerkface called people stupid when they argued against Joba as a starter back in 2008. Being called stupid by him isn’t much of an insult. It’s more comic relief than anything.
And you’re a joba bullpenner? Hilarious!
“Jerkface called people stupid when they argued against Joba as a starter back in 2008.”
Considering that Joba was brilliant as a starter in 2008, Jerkface was right.
Joba averaged 6 innings per start after he was stretched out.
# Jerkface January 31st, 2011 at 11:40 pm
Joba averaged 6 innings per start after he was stretched out.
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Yea contrary to popular he wasn’t bad as a starter
Yeah he was so great that talk radio nicknamed him “100 pitches of fun”
lol
He was wasted as starter.. His velocity drop was ignored after TX and now he’s pretty much worthless.
“Yeah he was so great that talk radio nicknamed him “100 pitches of fun””
Only a moron would call him that after what he did in 2008; his ERA was 2.76.
# MoRings42 January 31st, 2011 at 11:46 pm
Yeah he was so great that talk radio nicknamed him “100 pitches of fun”
lol
He was wasted as starter.. His velocity drop was ignored after TX and now he’s pretty much worthless.
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He was wasted as a starter???????? lol
# Rich in NJ January 31st, 2011 at 11:50 pm
“Yeah he was so great that talk radio nicknamed him “100 pitches of fun””
Only a moron would call him that after what he did in 2008; his ERA was 2.76.
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You can thank Francesa for the name who even though though still likes Joba as a reliever wouldn’t mind seeing him start again since he’s just a middle reliever that “no longer is the heir to Mo or the 8th inning guy”
I guess you had to actually watch the games to understand.
Fly away, stupid troll.
“I guess you had to actually watch the games to understand.”
So that must be an admission that you didn’t watch the games.
Joba as a starter in 2008
Date/AVG FB Velo
6/3 95.24 2.1 IP
6/8 96.22 4.1 IP
6/13 94.57 6 IP
6/19 95.12 5.2 IP
6/25 95.34 6.2 IP
7/1 94.81 4 IP
7/6 94.94 6 IP
7/11 94.79 6.2
7/19 95.22 6 IP
7/25 95.51 7 IP
7/30 94.86 6 IP
8/4 94.80 4.2 IP (shoulder injury)
it’s like debating tweedle dee and tweedle dumb .. yeah ok Rich you got me, Joba was brilliant for 7 starts in 2008 and especially brilliant against Boston for one game that year. If you had actually watched the games though you would have remembered how he shook off posada constantly and ran that pitch count up every start.
He was better as a reliever and more useful to the team as one.
# MoRings42 February 1st, 2011 at 12:14 am
it’s like debating tweedle dee and tweedle dumb .. yeah ok Rich you got me, Joba was brilliant for 7 starts in 2008 and especially brilliant against Boston for one game that year. If you had actually watched the games though you would have remembered how he shook off posada constantly and ran that pitch count up every start.
He was better as a reliever and more useful to the team as one.
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So because he shook off posada and ran up a pitch count he was wasted as a starter….wow.
Yes I do SAS.
No, he was wasted as a starter because he was better as a reliever.
Mariano Rivera had a 2.52 era in July 1995 as a starter, maybe we made a mistake?
I like the way you all throw money around like it’s yours, AP although he may be better,
Hiroki Kuroda is being vastly overpaid by the Dodgers, That does not mean the Yankees should also overpay AP. I think the $12mil is a real generous offer. If he decides to play again I will cheer, but the choice is his. I would not offer another dime….If they choose they may offer incentives. but they are not really necessary. My thoughts are that we are in pretty good shape for 2011. We van expect better performances from Arod, Tex, Jete, AJ and others…..