Pinch hitting: Pete Colgan
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Pinch hitters on Feb 01, 2011 
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Our next Pinch Hitter, Pete Colgan, went to the same high school as Joe Girardi, “(but) I’m 10 years his senior and we’ve never met,” Pete wrote.
A Yankees fan since 1962, Pete is a semi-retired banker in Peoria, Ill. He saw his first Yankees game in Chicago in 1963, but notes that both Roger Maris and Mickey Mantle were injured and didn’t play. His first game at Yankee Stadium didn’t come until 1976.
For his guest post, Pete looked at the history of the Yankees and Red Sox, searching for the exact moment when a general dislike became an actual, heated rivalry.
—
They say the New York-Boston baseball rivalry began on that October day in 1904, at Hilltop Park in Manhattan, where the New York Highlanders 41-game winner Jack Chesbro’s spitball sailed beyond home plate and the Boston Americans’ Lou Criger raced home with the tie-breaking run in the ninth inning giving Boston the pennant. Most would agree that that rivalry between the Yankees and Red Sox, as the two teams would eventually be called, is long and storied.
True rivalries in sports seem to ebb and flow. By that I mean one team may be dominant for a while, then their opponents rule. For American League baseball fans in New York and Boston, it wasn’t always the same ebb and flow as in other great rivalries such as Michigan-Ohio State in the college game of football. Following Chesbro’s wild spitter Boston did go on a run of dominance over its New York opponent that ran through 1919. Then Harry Frazee stepped in and sold his star pitcher (and hitter) George Herman Ruth to New York on January 3, 1920 and everything changed.
For the next 26 years, the New York club dominated Boston in the standings, finishing ahead of the Sox every single year, winning 13 pennants and nine world championships to Boston’s none. Boston was rarely close to the Yankees in the standings (64 games behind in 1932). Worse yet, Boston didn’t stop at Babe Ruth when shipping star players to New York. Do the names Dugan, Hoyt, Pennock and Ruffing ring a bell? You see, Boston of the 1920′s was much like the Kansas City Athletics of the 1950′s as far as the Yankees were concerned. Both Boston and Kansas City, in their days, provided a pipeline of talent coming to New York and mostly unknowns going the other way.
Seriously, this was a rivalry?
True, Boston made a run at the Yankees following World War II, winning the 1946 pennant, then taking the season to the final day of 1949 before bowing to the Yankees. As everyone knows it was a good effort on Boston’s part, but it all ended with the Yankees run of five straight championships and Boston’s return to the second division. The rest of the 50s and early 60s brought more of the same. When the Yankees finished dead last in 1966 — their dynasty finally gone — who was it that finished just 1/2 game ahead of the Yankees? Yep, Boston. When Boston finally won a pennant in 1967, it was the ninth-place Yankees giving them an assist, sending Boston a declining but still useful Elston Howard, who helped capture the pennant in a close race before taking the World Series to Game 7. In the spring of 1972, Boston thought nothing of using the Yankees as a trade partner, shipping reliever Sparky Lyle for a needed right-handed bat, Danny Cater.
Some rivalry indeed.
Now, I’m not here to suggest that there was no spark when Boston played New York in one American League park or the other. Everybody knows about Teddy Ballgame versus Joltin Joe, and later the Splendid Splinter of Boston versus the Mick. But it doesn’t always rise to the level of national acclaim. Do you think FOX or ESPN would have done national or semi-national coverage of a Red Sox-Yankees tilt seemingly every time they played if there were TV in the 20s and 30s, or if those networks existed in the 50s and 60s? Probably not.
So it is debatable that there was an all fired rivalry for the five or so decades following the Babe’s sale to New York, but we know there is one today. So when did this modern rivalry commence? Some would say it was October 2, 1978 , the day Bucky dented the Sox pennant hopes.
I will go with July 27, 1975.
The 1975 spring training issue of the Sporting News featured cover pictures of the two newest Yankees, Bobby Bonds and Catfish Hunter. The magazine said it was to be the Yankee’s year, but it wasn’t. On the morning of July 27, 1975, the Yankees trailed Boston by eight games. A New York sweep in that day’s doubleheader at Shea, and a six-game deficit would have placed the Yankees back in the race somewhat. Instead it was a sweep the other way, and the Yankees trailed by 10 games, and manager Bill Virdon was on thin ice. Two humiliating losses, both complete game shutouts by Boston lefties Bill Lee and Roger Moret. Catfish did his job in the first game, allowing no earned runs in a complete game 1-0 loss. Game 2 was 6-0 Boston, but it did mark the debut of Yankee legend Ron Guidry (speaking of debuts on that same day, in another part of New York future Yankee star Alex Rodriguez came into the world. Both Guidry and A-Rod would later make their mark on the Red Sox and Yankees rivalry. So a disastrous day also marked a new beginning in more ways that one).
So what exactly did that fateful July 27 set in motion beyond the Gator and A-Rod “debuts”? Within a few days the Yankees would dump Virdon and hire Billy (don’t be afraid to start something) Martin, and start something they did. Early in the ‘76 season, at the refurbished Yankee Stadium, Lou Piniella crashed into Carlton Fisk and a donnybrook ensued. Adding to the fun, another battle that day was won decisively by Graig Nettles over Boston’s Lee, and the Red Sox were buried for the season. Then the close race of ’77 — which the Yankees won — and the great comeback of ’78, and Bucky’s Fenway heroics.
Now you have the makings of a real rivalry.
So I’m not going to completely dismiss the rivalry over time, but if you want a starting point to what is undeniably baseball’s (and perhaps all of sports) greatest rivalry, think back to that day in Flushing in 1975. The Yankees, who were supposed to win according to most preseason accounts, were humiliated and knocked out of the race for good. The Yankees response was fast, furious and decisive, and set in motion the no-holds-barred play of Red Sox-Yankees that we have come to know today.
Was it always a rivalry? Probably, but the intensity has never been higher than in the past 35 years, an overall Yankee advantage. Here’s hoping that it is the Yankees that hold that advantage in the future, but the total dominance they enjoyed for many decades probably is a thing of the past.
Nice picture choice
I don’t agree.
I think the Sox will always be in the shadow of the Yankees over the long haul.
Always the pretenders to the throne.
Let me know when they pass 27.
Lot’s of luck.
Interesting post though.
That is not to say that the Sux don’t or won’t have some good years, and moments in the Sun.
They will.
But they will never be the Yankees.
Ain’t gonna happen.
why Erica, I bet Pete chose that just for you
Interesting post. The increased intensity of the rivalry coincides w/ when I became a Yankee fan, so it has always been that way for me.
Then Harry Frazee stepped in and sold his star pitcher (and hitter) George Herman Ruth to New York on January 3, 1920 and everything changed.
===================================
I’d say that’s when the rivalry began.
I wonder if Andy canceling his 2/15 appearance tells us he has a conflict with spring training or he just doesn’t want to answer questions.
Terrific post. Best pinch hitter article so far.
What rivalry?
“Was it always a rivalry? Probably, but the intensity has never been higher than in the past 35 years”
Got pretty hot in the mid-late 70′s as you suggest and began heating up a little in the late 90′s, before getting to mid-late 70′s level again in ’03, but most of the 80′s into the early 90′s, it was pretty dormant.
JCPD-
How are you ?
Things going good ?
upstate kate February 1st, 2011 at 9:12 am
why Erica, I bet Pete chose that just for you
**********
Chad, silly Upstate Kate!!!!
And of course
The night of my senior prom in 1976 was the night of the big brawl between the two teams at the stadium.
My buddy and I, also a huge Yankee fan, ditched our dates and were watching the game in the hotel when the fight started.
That was the night Bill Lee blew his shoulder out after Nettles punched him in the face.
To this day, many of those guys from those two teams still don’t speak to one another.
That was the night the rivalry cystallized to me.
austinmac February 1st, 2011 at 9:13 am
I wonder if Andy canceling his 2/15 appearance
================================
What appearance Mac?
MTU, things are fine, a little time and things will be smoother. On my 7th day in a row today and then I’ll have 2 days off to enjoy, especially with the weather.
In all honesty, Andy would best be served skipping the 1st few months of the season…
I would like to expunge 2004 from the overall record.
That’s a bad stain. It hurt. Can’t lie about that one.
The high point in the rivalry for Boston and the low point for us.
Downhill from there for them though.
That was their true moment in the Sun.
JCPD-
Glad to hear it.
I apologize to everyone for bringing it up.
Shame on me.
The sox have lost their charm since 2004.
No longer the joyful underdogs.
They are becoming their worst nightmare, a cheaper version of us, the team they hated.
To me the real rivalry really took hold in 1978 with the Yankees’ comeback and Bucky Dent’s HR.
Good morning all…especially JCPD, who I have not seen here in ages.
I think the way Cashman has gone about his pitching situation makes lots of sense. After all there was an exciting collection of free agents lined up at the Yankee offices. Hopefully Pettitte will be back, and one of the minor league players including our contingent will pitch for the 5th spot. If not there will be a race for 2 spots.
The Yankees also obtained shortstop Everett Scott from Boston. Scott held the consecutive games played record until Gehrig took it away. There was also three near trades that would have changed baseball history. Ted Williams for Joe DiMaggio, Carl Yaztremski for Tommy Tresh in 1966 and the biggest one was the Yankees offering a young minor league first baseman to Boston for a couple of non-descript infielder. The first baseman was Lou Gehrig. Mike Torrez left the Yankees as a FA and signed with Boston. He had an outstanding 1978 season, until one pitch. In 1979, Luis Tiant defected from Boston to NY and later on Wade Boggs.
As a girl born in 1980, I never even knew there was a rivalry until the late 90s when NY and Boston faced off in the ALCS.
But the first time I really took note had to be the eventful 2003 ALCS. The entire family was sitting at my little cousin’s first birthday party watching in disbelief when Pedro tossed Don Zimmer.
To all our brethen in the Midwest.
Please be careful.
You are in for some real hell.
The storm coming your way is a Monster.
Stay safe.
Ideal rotation:
CC,Hughes,Andy,Garcia, Colon…lol.
Erica
I was thinking the picture was chose by the author of the article…I wasn’t thinking of he who shall not be named but got you a Yankee Snoopy
There may have been dislike or competition between the 2 teams but there was no rivalry until 2004……domination isn’t rivalry to me. Still 27-2 since 1918.
The storm coming your way is a Monster.
=============================
Quite an eventful 1st of Feb.
The Monster of the Midway Storm.
The 1m Man march in Egypt.
Yanks acquire Freddy Garcia.
What’s next?
but there was no rivalry until 2004……
======================
Now that’s a stretch Blake….
mick February 1st, 2011 at 9:17 am
austinmac February 1st, 2011 at 9:13 am
I wonder if Andy canceling his 2/15 appearance
================================
What appearance Mac?
___________________________________________________
A bunch of yankees are doing signings in Roosevelt Field Mall ( long island). Oneill will be there 2/13 and Alex on 2/8. I think Andy’s is supposed to be a private signing though. If not, Im taking off of work
http://www.steinersports.com/u.....h-signings
” They say the New York-Boston baseball rivalry began on that October day in 1904,…”
This should be easy to confirm as soon as some of more “seasoned” posters find their glasses, teeth, hearing aids etc. and make there way in here.
The rivalry will always ebb and flow with the relative success of the teams. The rivalry now seems to be much more fan base driven than player driven. Too many players jump from team to team for there to be a big rivalry between them. That doesn’t mean they don’t compete, but the intensity on the field isn’t quite the same.
There are some players who evoke the rivalry feelings when they play vs. the respective teams… Youkilis to some degree- especially with Joba, but Pedroia is buddy buddy with Jeter, and Jeter rarely displays any dislike to any opponent. We also used to have Alex and their “C”aptain, but even that has faded quite a bit.
Free agency has muted the rivalry on the players side of things a good deal. I’m not sure it will ever quite reach the old intensity again, especially since the two WS wins the Saux have had.
Thanks for the info NYY626….I did not know that.
Altho’ Andy canceling a 2/15 signing event , could mean he will be elsewhere as isn’t the day for P&C in Tampa?
Thanks SAS, sometimes work gets in the way of life!!! MTU, no stinking storm is going to stop me, I’m not going to hiss and moan about the weather like so many do. It is what it is, I say if you don’t like it, move…… otherwise make the most out of it. Hopefully for me, it will give me some good picture taking opportunities. Heck, as long as my feet hit the ground in the morning, it’s a good day and the rest is up to me.
One thing about the near trade in 1923 of Lou Gehrig to Boston. It was Boston that turned down the trade. One of the biggest thefts was stealing Boston manager, Ed Barrow, and making him the Yankee GM. A man after my own heart, in 1930, Barrow was temporarily demoted for assaulting sportswriter Bill Slocum for remarks in a newspaper.
mick February 1st, 2011 at 9:41 am
Altho’ Andy canceling a 2/15 signing event , could mean he will be elsewhere as isn’t the day for P&C in Tampa?
_________________________________________________________
I was thinking the same thing…
Good stat from RAB’s Mike Axisa posted to twitter a little bit ago…
mikeaxisa
Freddy Garcia had three more quality starts in 2010 than Phil Hughes.
Big fan of getting Garcia on a minor league deal. No risk, another option for the rotation and had pretty good results last year.
Mick,
Maybe but until 2004 one team had won 27 titles and the other team 0 since 1918. How much did the Sox really rival the Yankees over that time frame?
JCPD-
Applaud the attitude.
One question though ?
How can your feet hit the ground when the snow is that deep ?
Keep on truckin and hug Dakota for me.
Maybe but until 2004 one team had won 27 titles and the other team 0 since 1918. How much did the Sox really rival the Yankees over that time frame?
=========================================
Semantics. Depends on your definition of “rivalry,” I guess.
Yankees-RedSox always had my juices flowing.
Rodg12-
Stay safe. You’re gonna get hit hard.
Let’s keep in mind that in order for Boston to justify the signing of Carl Crawford and the deal for Adrian Gonzalez, both players must equal or exceed the numbers put up in 2010 by Victor Martinez and Adrian Beltre.
At the same time, Pedroia, Youkilis, and Ellsbury need to show full health.
“To me the real rivalry really took hold in 1978 with the Yankees’ comeback and Bucky Dent’s HR”
Last two weeks of that season were absolutely riveting. Yankees took the first two of a three game set with the Red Sox at the Stadium to assume a 4 game lead with 14 games to play. One week later, the lead was down to 1 game with 7 games to play. Both teams won 6 straight to go into the last Sunday of the season with the Yankees still holding that 1 game lead. Hunter didn’t have it that Sunday and Tiant shutout the Jays setting the stage for the playoff game and the heroics of Dent, Guidry, Piniella, etc. and another World Series.
Andy’s signing today.
if he does Jerkface I am going to have bacon in your honor
The storm coming your way is a Monster.
Stay safe.
************
Everybody be careful. This storm is blanketing a lot of the country with snow and ice.
MTU, you’ve seen pics of Dakota in the snow, she loves it. She clears the way for me, that’s how my feet hit the ground.
Kate-
I’ll send him a whole hog.
Face, is this from your source?
The same one who told you that Andy was working out?
JCPD-
A canine snowplow too.
What a dog.
Kate-
Or at least a Supercomputer.
All I can say is I’m thankful for all this global warming.
Ribalries don’t need to include two great/good teams. The Brooklyn/LA Dodgers – NY/SF Giants rivalry has been going on for 125 years and there were long stretches that one team or the other stunk and years when both stunkor both were good. Fans are usually the ones that start the feud that feed the team rivalries. Look at St. Louis and the Chicago Cubs. Nobody would ever guess that two teams with opposite success histories had any reason to be rivalries.
JCPD-
Thank Al Gore.
Wow – all the good Freddy Garcia stats coming out of the woodwork this morning. Nice. I guess I underestimated him a bit.
***Rivalries***
Jerkface February 1st, 2011 at 9:50 am
Andy’s signing today.
_____________________________________________
With the yankees or autographs?
Rivalry is about the feel of the game, the players, the importance of the games. The Bucs sucked forever but they had a rivalry with the Packers, and once there was re-alignment they had a rivalry with the Vick falcons.
# MTU February 1st, 2011 at 9:50 am
Rodg12-
Stay safe. You’re gonna get hit hard.
Most of my coworkers that live out of town are working from home today and probably will tomorrow as well. My sister works in the same town I do and crashed at my place last night and will tonight so that she doesn’t have to drive the 20 miles or so that she usually does.
————————————
Will do, MTU. Luckily I live only 7 blocks from work, so I should be good to go.
TylerKepner Tyler Kepner
With Damaso Marte, Neal Cotts and now Freddy Garcia, Yankees have 3 of the 4 winning pitchers for White Sox in 2005 World Series.
If Andy signs, I say Nova is headed back to AAA.
Freddy can steal the #5 spot.
Seeing that SI cover from ’05 in this guest post, I thought it was going to be some crack about the Yanks signing guys like Prior, Colon and Garcia. LOL
Mick,
Yes…I guess it does depend on your definition of rivarly. It always has been a rivarly in one way as Jerkace says but in actual results on the field …..it really wasn’t for a long time.
With Damaso Marte, Neal Cotts and now Freddy Garcia, Yankees have 3 of the 4 winning pitchers for White Sox in 2005 World Series.
****************
Hi GB,
Will this start a rivalry with the White Sox?
way off topic to JCPD
Does Dakota have problems with snow/ice balls between her toes? I usually take my dog w/ me when I ski or snowshoe, but she has a terrible time w/ her paws. I have tried to explain that licking and biting at them makes the snow stick even more, but she is a stubborn terrier and will not listen. She wont wear her booties. I tried a suggestion of spraying PAM on her feet…she thought that tasted mighty fine. It is quite a problem when she stops in the middle of a down hill to bite at her feet.
Since ’95 or so, the Yanks have been ‘rivals’ with the O’s, the Indians, Mariners, Angels , and Sox.
Blake
As someone just said: what does winning got to do with it?
If 2 teams hate each other, which has its roots in the Ruth deal, what’s the difference who wins, as proven by our unquestionable “Rivalry” with the Hated sox.
Fran the original February 1st, 2011 at 10:06 am
With Damaso Marte, Neal Cotts and now Freddy Garcia, Yankees have 3 of the 4 winning pitchers for White Sox in 2005 World Series.
****************
Hi GB,
Will this start a rivalry with the White Sox?
———————————————————————————————————————-
I hope so. Yankees will toss out a pair of Sox with holes in them.
I’ve always liked Freddy Garcia’s bulldog approach. Let’s hope he still has some left after being 2 years removed from shoulder issues.
In other news, Damon will be issued #22 and Ramirez will return to his #24 for the Rays.
Kate,
I used to take the hair dryer to help loosen the snow and ice balls. It was a pain in the neck. I had forgotten about that. The desert will make you do that. It is supposed to get very cold for here for this area after a most gorgeous January.
blake February 1st, 2011 at 7:09 am
Larry Lucchino.said yesterday that he got “hormonal satisfaction from outdueling the Yankees this winter”…..lol!
+++++++++++++++++
That would be from an overload of the estrogen supplements he takes.
Mick,
Ill give ya that.
SAS-
Good morning.
Our Jan. was great too.
Cold today though.
Kate, Dakota has never had any problems with snow or ice between her toes. Just last a week ago we were outside at Niagara Falls for about 4-5 hours without any problem. She does have a problem when she occasionally gets a piece of rock salt and then suddenly goes limping, but I immediately remove it and she’s fine. Dakota has never had any kind of “boots” on.
Hi SAS,
Sorry that it is getting cold there, but at least you are out of here for the winter.
Mick,
I can’t recall the name of the store he was to appear, but it was in the City. Maybe it was a memorabilia place. This was reported yesterday , I believe. Is that a vague enough memory?:)
Thanks JCPD
MTU February 1st, 2011 at 9:31 am
To all our brethen in the Midwest.
Please be careful.
You are in for some real hell.
The storm coming your way is a Monster.
Stay safe.
—
Yes, it is snowing in Albuquerque, New Mexico and *it’s actually accumulating on the ground* (rare).
That means in the northeast you should get about… 10 feet.
Freddy Garcia (career) :
http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/histo.....38;HS=True
Andy cancelling a signing event might just mean he doesn’t want to answer the question about playing this year 200 times.
Fran,
I am very grateful to be here. I am sure this isn’t the worst winter in NY history, but it does seem that wa.
I found the article in Newsday. Actually Andy cancelled an autograph session and rescheduled it for February 15th. That is not a good sign.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....50669?qr=1
Yes, rescheduling *for* Feb 15 is not a good sign.
SAS-
Actually this winter broke the ALL time record for snowiest Jan. NYC.
Our snowpack is almost 200% of normal (we need the water) and the ground is 85% saturated.
Lake Mead has risen 1 and 1/2 feet due to the winter rains.
That may not sound like much but when you consider the surface area its an enormous amount.
This Winter will be long remebered.
It’s a 100 year or more event in many places.
Britain had it’s coldest Winter in at least 500 years.
SAS,
It does seem pretty bad because there is snow almost every other day. And there are just mounds and mounds of it. It is blocking street signs and corners. Anyway, stay warm
Kate
Try Vitamin E (doesn’t taste as good as Pam) if she’s not outside alot.
You can buy paw wax in a pet store to protect dogs pads from extreme heat or cold too.
Dog walk time.
BIAW.
thanks Pat
I will look for the paw wax…vit E would cost a fortune, she loves to be outside!
I like the Garcia signing – I was a proponent of bringing him in for a long time. I think he’ll easily make the squad and slot in nicely as a 4th or 5th option. I certainly have more faith in him than I do in any of the remaining FA starters and much more than I do in Colon or Mitre.
To me it is a low risk, moderate reward signing.
The fun speculation would be what happens if Colon, Garcia and Prior all throw well this spring – would the Yankees ditch Mitre and deal Joba and put both Colon and Prior in the pen with Garcia in the rotation?
Here’s a picture to warm up(and brag to) all those freezing north of the florida/georgia border
http://farm6.static.flickr.
com/5212/5407978866_dd3412f8d2_m.jpg
Kate
The paw wax wasn’t expensive. I think it was about $10.
The fun speculation would be what happens if Colon, Garcia and Prior all throw well this spring – would the Yankees ditch Mitre and deal Joba and put both Colon and Prior in the pen with Garcia in the rotation?
—-
I doubt it because you can’t put so much stock in spring training performance when half the players aren’t trying.
“That was the night Bill Lee blew his shoulder out after Nettles punched him in the face.
To this day, many of those guys from those two teams still don’t speak to one another.
That was the night the rivalry cystallized to me.”
sj44-
when i was a bullpen catcher in the ill fated senior league in 1989, 13 years after that fight, we were in a rain delay with the winter park team that was composed of mostly red sox players. when the game at mckechnie field in bradenton was finally cancelled, i went out to the bullpen to get my catching gear under the bullpen bench that was on the warning track in foul territory.
it was raining sideways and as i gathered my gear and was throwing everything in my bag, a solitary hooded figure from the winter haven team came out of the rain jogging towards me on the warning track . as the figure got within about 10 feet of me i realized it was bill lee.
as he was starting to nod a greeting, i instinctively said ” bleep you” look as i turned and went back into the clubhouse. lee gave me a look like “what the hell” with his hands out at his side.
now all this happened in a few seconds in a driving rainstorm.
i get into the clubhouse ,take a shower, and as i’m shaving afterward nettles is beside me shaving also. now i didn’t talk much to nettles because i was the bullpen catcher, but i spoke up said i had just run into lee outside. as nettles gave me a “yeah so?” look ,i told him that i had told lee where to go.
nettles without a smile said ” good, he’s a bleeping ass-hole” as he continued shaving.
there was no doubt what nettles felt about lee that day, and this was 13 years later.
Given that the trade market was apparently dead, I think Cashman has done about as well as could be expected in spreading the Lee money around. Catcher, bench, taking some flyers on starting pitching, and the bullpen should just be nasty.. Andy is the big cherry on top. If he signs on the Yanks are a really a well rounded team.
Spring training stats aren’t important, but scouting your own guys and recognizing ability and major league tools are very important. I don’t see all 3 making the team and the Yankees dealing Joba, because if they deal Joba it would be to upgrade somewhere. I think they’d probably just have Nova go to AAA.
Mo
Feliciano
Logan
Robertson
Soriano
Joba
Prior
Colon
Garcia
Burnett
Hughes
CC
Starting 9 + 4
In case that link doesn’t work:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com.....f8d2_m.jpg
ok, that was mean tyanks
Jerkface,
How is Colon making the rotation if Andy is signing today?
Kate
Just trying to warm everyone up. This is why Florida is such a nice place to live. Apparently its supposed to get warmer which is good. I’m actually wearing a light jacket.
Jerkface where is the long man out of the pen?
For those reading into the 2/15 Andy Pettitte autograph signing…..
Its a PRIVATE signing. That doesn’t mean that Andy is going to be anywhere in person.
It just means he is sitting and signing autographs on that day.
How is Colon making the rotation if Andy is signing today?
-
Well theres that too, but I was just indulging Chip’s tangent.
“It just means he is sitting and signing autographs on that day.”
would it hurt to slip a contract in there without andy seeing it ?
i think all’s fair in love, war , and baseball.
Patrick February 1st, 2011 at 11:04 am
The fun speculation would be what happens if Colon, Garcia and Prior all throw well this spring – would the Yankees ditch Mitre and deal Joba and put both Colon and Prior in the pen with Garcia in the rotation?
—-
I doubt it because you can’t put so much stock in spring training performance when half the players aren’t trying.
—————
forget the results, I’m talking about the stuff – if Colon’s fastball is sitting mid 90′s, if Prior has life on his pitches – would they take them all?
I wish we were accumulating lefties. Bostons power is mostly from the left side like it was in 2004 except for manny
Jerkface where is the long man out of the pen?
–
In the incredibly unlikely scenario in which all 3 make the team out of spring training, the 5th starter is the long man in the stretches where he isn’t needed. The majority of long relief innings would be picked by Joba, et al. Long relief is less of an issue when you have more established starters going.
# randy l. February 1st, 2011 at 11:27 am
“It just means he is sitting and signing autographs on that day.”
would it hurt to slip a contract in there without andy seeing it ?
i think all’s fair in love, war , and baseball.
————————–
They can have Brian dressed up as a little kid. He can go in full garb: pimple face, runny nose, jumping around, etc
Chip,
Ok even if that’s the case I think Nova’s stuff is better than anything we can reasonably expect from Prior, Colon and Garcia.
If Andy signs:
CC
Hughes
Andy
AJ
Garcia
Relievers
RHP: Mo, Soriano, Robertson, Colon, Prior
LHP: Logan, Feliciano
Option Joba to the minors or deal him.
Deal Romulo Sanchez for minor league depth
Deal or release Mitre
Patrick February 1st, 2011 at 11:31 am
Chip,
Ok even if that’s the case I think Nova’s stuff is better than anything we can reasonably expect from Prior, Colon and Garcia.
—————————-
Well if Andy doesn’t return then Nova slots in behind Garcia as the fifth starter.
well since Joba can’t be optioned w/o clearing waivers…he will probably be dealt.
Your pitching doesn’t look bad. I would support it
“They can have Brian dressed up as a little kid. He can go in full garb: pimple face, runny nose, jumping around, etc”
let’s send LGY in instead, brian’s the right size ,but he’s way too old for all that jumping around.
Patrick February 1st, 2011 at 11:31 am
Chip,
Ok even if that’s the case I think Nova’s stuff is better than anything we can reasonably expect from Prior, Colon and Garcia.
—————
As I see it, there is one spot in the rotation that is Garcia’s to lose. If Andy doesn’t return then that last spot is between Colon, Mitre, Nova, Noesi, Phelps, Warren. Assuming Nova wins that spot then the final spot on the pitching staff will be between Prior, Colon and Mitre.
If Colon and Prior both make their case – the Yankees will have an interesting decision on their hands.
Chip
Assuming all 3 of Colon, Garcia and Prior make the team two of them would be in the rotation. I don’t see how you can take ALL 3 above Joba, Nova and Mitre. Makes no sense
well since Joba can’t be optioned w/o clearing waivers…he will probably be dealt.
–
Everyone who is optioned goes through optional waivers. No one is ever selected off of optional waivers. Please do not peddle this story line.
If Andy returns then I would make Garcia beat Nova out for the 5th spot. Garcia there probably would give them more flexibility because they could keep Nova ready at Scranton….but all things equal Id rather have Nova in the rotation because he still has upside and Freddy doesn’t.
It is going down to 17 degrees tonight and the next night. Brrr. Remind me not to brag about the warm weather.
And if Andy does return – I still think Garcia winds up with the fifth spot and Nova is the first pitcher up when needed.
# randy l. February 1st, 2011 at 11:35 am
“They can have Brian dressed up as a little kid. He can go in full garb: pimple face, runny nose, jumping around, etc”
let’s send LGY in instead, brian’s the right size ,but he’s way too old for all that jumping around.
——————————-
true you have a point and knowing Brian he might break character and slip up. “Big fan of yours Andy…you’re going to give another yr right? I understand this is a PROCESS.”
Andy comes back, Colon vs Garcia in spring (Garcia ends up in the 5th spot) Nova goes to long relief, mitre gets dealt for beans.
Austin-
Sometimes you get the goldmine sometimes just the shaft.
Weather has been wacky everywhere.
# Jerkface February 1st, 2011 at 11:36 am
well since Joba can’t be optioned w/o clearing waivers…he will probably be dealt.
–
Everyone who is optioned goes through optional waivers. No one is ever selected off of optional waivers. Please do not peddle this story line.
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Sorry it’s my mistake. You ok Jerkface?
Face
You scooping the Andy signing?
Angling for Heyman’s job?
Patrick February 1st, 2011 at 11:36 am
Chip
Assuming all 3 of Colon, Garcia and Prior make the team two of them would be in the rotation. I don’t see how you can take ALL 3 above Joba, Nova and Mitre. Makes no sense
————–
Well
1. In the scenario above, two of the three on minor league deals actually wind up in the pen – which is entirely plausible.
2. I don’t think Mitre is anything special so Prior and Colon beating him out for the last spot on the pitching staff isn’t a stretch.
3. Joba’s value is sinking like a stone in a lake – the Yankees may be inclined to deal him rather than watch it bottom out completely.
4. Assuming Andy doesn’t return, Nova doesn’t factor into the mix as he could still win a spot in the rotation. If Andy does return, there’s nothing wrong with having Nova open the season at AAA since I’m sure that the Yankees will need more than 5 starters over the course of the season.
IMO, whatever guy gets whatever spot. They earn it thru competition.
Let the best Men win.
Nobody should be annointed, or handed anything.
MTU -
A new career as the LoHud weather man.
Good morning JCPD, glad to hear things are going well.
You scooping the Andy signing?
–
Maybe!
“3. Joba’s value is sinking like a stone in a lake – the Yankees may be inclined to deal him rather than watch it bottom out completely.”
You mean he’s not going to increase his value in middle relief?
3. Joba’s value is sinking like a stone in a lake – the Yankees may be inclined to deal him rather than watch it bottom out completely.
–
They’d only deal Joba for a starter, which means one of Garcia/Colon gets dumped, which is why I don’t think it’d happen, but also they’d probably rather have Joba rebuild his value this season by being a good reliever.
Jerkface February 1st, 2011 at 11:28 am
In the incredibly unlikely scenario in which all 3 make the team out of spring training, the 5th starter is the long man in the stretches where he isn’t needed. The majority of long relief innings would be picked by Joba, et al. Long relief is less of an issue when you have more established starters going.
***********
I totally disagree. You need five starters during the season dedicated to starting games. Joba is not a long reliever, he’s not going to give you 4-5 innings if Burnett gets torched in the first or second. You need a Mitre/Gaudin type to eat innings when your starter gets knocked out early.
Morning Al-
How’s things this AM ?
MTU February 1st, 2011 at 11:42 am
IMO, whatever guy gets whatever spot. They earn it thru competition.
Let the best Men win.
Nobody should be annointed, or handed anything
——————
Not handing Garcia anything – but I believe he’s got a substantial leg up since unlike any of the other guys angling for a spot in the rotation he’s going to have no inning restrictions and is more of a known quantity than Colon.
Sorry it’s my mistake.
–
Don’t let it happen again.
Randy,
Great story!
Bucky Dent lives near me and still holds his camp annually in my town.
He still talks about how guys from those teams don’t even talk to one another at signing shows and camps and it’s been over 30 years!
Far cry from today where many of the players from each team attend one another’s charity events in the off-season.
It’s a much more fan driven than player driven rivalry now.
# Jerkface February 1st, 2011 at 11:45 am
Sorry it’s my mistake.
–
Don’t let it happen again.
————————-
Well I’m human so mistakes will happen.
Jerkface February 1st, 2011 at 11:44 am
3. Joba’s value is sinking like a stone in a lake – the Yankees may be inclined to deal him rather than watch it bottom out completely.
–
They’d only deal Joba for a starter, which means one of Garcia/Colon gets dumped, which is why I don’t think it’d happen, but also they’d probably rather have Joba rebuild his value this season by being a good reliever.
————–
eh, I don’t know – I think if Brian could get a solid OF or P prospect for him he would make the move.
I’m not giving him away for some Quad A player – but a nice solid B+ prospect might do it.
Face
Now you are going to make me check mlbtr 100 times today!
Chip-
I really don’t care who wins it as long as the Yankees feel they have
earned their place.
If that’s Freddy great.
Other than Pettitte returning I don’t have much of a dog in this hunt.
I am glad they have some experienced guys ready to compete though.
Should be interesting. No doubt about that.
I totally disagree.
–
The Rays managed without one last year. Its a moot point because its not happening, but the current bullpen+1 extra guy can easily handle finishing out a game.
It’s a low risk move but let’s not get too excited about Garcia, he hardly solves our rotation issues IMO. His fastball averaged just 87 mph and he only struck out 5.10 per 9 innings. That’s hardly stuff you want from a right-hander facing the Sox and the rest of the AL East, he’s a ways removed from the good slider, change-up guy he used to be.
Well I’m human so mistakes will happen.
–
Tell me, human, what is love?
MTU February 1st, 2011 at 11:48 am
Chip-
I really don’t care who wins it as long as the Yankees feel they have
earned their place.
If that’s Freddy great.
Other than Pettitte returning I don’t have much of a dog in this hunt.
I am glad they have some experienced guys ready to compete though.
Should be interesting. No doubt about that.
——————
IMNSHO – they wouldn’t have gone this route with Garcia if they still thought Andy was coming back. I know it’s a minor league deal but I can’t see him not getting a spot on the 25.
I could be completely wrong – but that’s my take on it.
It’s a low risk move but let’s not get too excited about Garcia, he hardly solves our rotation issues IMO
–
20 games last year where he pitched atleast 6 innings, 10 of 7 innings, 12 into the 7th, only 2 of 4 ER, the other 18 3 ER or less. Under 3 ERA vs the Red Sox and Rays in 2010.
He pretty much solves the rotation issues. He provides a reliable presence in the back end of the rotation.
West Coast Yankee Fan February 1st, 2011 at 11:50 am
It’s a low risk move but let’s not get too excited about Garcia, he hardly solves our rotation issues IMO. His fastball averaged just 87 mph and he only struck out 5.10 per 9 innings. That’s hardly stuff you want from a right-hander facing the Sox and the rest of the AL East, he’s a ways removed from the good slider, change-up guy he used to be.
———————
Eh – he’s no ACE that’s for sure – but he’s a solid vet who isn’t going to wet himself facing a lineup of established major leaguers. And what’s more, the biggest issue was to get someone in here who can eat innings and Garcia can do that.
As a fourth or fifth starter – he’s a very good fit.
MTU -
Not too bad. When seeing the weather the vast majority of the country is getting, I’m thankful for being where I am.
I’m hoping the Dallas area continues to get hit by storms, and no one shows up for this Super Bowl. That’s wrong of me, I know, for fans have spent a lot of money on tickets, hotels etc. but, if my Giants aren’t in it, I could care less. Besides, I hate big Ben, and can’t stand to hear all the praise the press puts on that low life sex animal. Just another guy that got away with a crime based on his status of being a pro.
I could be completely wrong – but that’s my take on it.
–
If he got a major league deal, yea, but he didn’t. There is no obligation on the yankees behalf to either Colon or Garcia. Its obvious they only signed Garcia once his asking price came down from a guaranteed spot to a minor league deal. That doesn’t pre-clude Andy from coming back and infact having both Colon and Garcia with Andy’s return is favorable because it means more competition for the 5th spot.
So yea you’re completely wrong.
# Jerkface February 1st, 2011 at 11:50 am
Well I’m human so mistakes will happen.
–
Tell me, human, what is love?
—————————-
An emotion that ppl spend way too much time dealing with
Garcia won more games than AJ and threw more innings than Andy last season.
If he throws the same way this year on a team with a better offense and defense than the White Sox had last year, and stays healthy, he will win 13-15 games for the Yankees.
SJ44 -
I agree, and that’s why I was calling for this signing for quite a while.
This can only be a plus for the Yankees, even if Andy returns, Freddie is great insurance.
Big Al,
I am with you on the Super Bowl, except I don’t care because the Jets aren’t there. The ironic thing is they are worried about the weather here for the Super Bowl and look what’s hapening in Dallas.
Fran -
I was thinking the same thing this morning, how funny would it be to have an old fashioned championship game, played in the cold and snow, like in the 50′s and 60′s. I’d love it, and then only the true fans show up, and all the so called beautiful people, that never support theses teams, and only show up for this one game, can stay at home.
I agree both Colon and Garcia are low risk moves from a business standpoint and given the Yankees situation a decent move. I just think it’s very possible both turn out to be zeros which still leaves us where we are right now.
And the sky is falling, nothing good will happen in Yankee land etc. ……………… Negative thoughts, from the King of negative thinking.
Stop lying Al, I never said anything of the kind.
WCYF -
Perhaps you can’t be honest with yourself, but, the vast majority of folks on this blog think of you as nothing but a negative poster, and you’ve heard this before, so that’s the truth, own up.
Shut up AL, why do you lie? I applauded the Soriano signing and said the Garcia signing was a good one and think the Yankees have a great team and never said they didn’t. I am just cautioning against some of the inflated hope for Gacrcia which I think may be unwarranted. Get lost troll.
Against All Odds February 1st, 2011 at 11:44 am
“3. Joba’s value is sinking like a stone in a lake – the Yankees may be inclined to deal him rather than watch it bottom out completely.”
You mean he’s not going to increase his value in middle relief?
////
& cash has insisted that Joba is going to be a 6th/7th inning stud…
WCYF -
Troll? You make me laugh, you are the troll that can’t even be honest with himself. How many times have several different folks here called you out for being nothing but negative? Don’t like it, and you won’t except it, because it’s the truth, and you can’t accept that.
You know who and what you are, and how many other names you’ve used when posting to make yourself feel better, so, do what you will, say what you want, I and many others know the truth, and if you can’t, or won’t accept it, that’s on you, not me.
I’m done with you loser, so any future posts will fall on dead ears.
sj44-
it’s a different world for players now moving around the way they do. a good player who has a long career like damon can play on 7-8 teams in a career and even be on both the red sox and yankees.
nettles ,even though he played for other teams at the tail end of his career, played 11 years for the yankees. lee played on two teams in his career, 10 with the red sox.
with players like pedroia and jeter being good friends, you’re not going to see the the thurman / fisk battles of old too often now, though players like youkillis/joba can still ratchet up the rivalry a few notches .
this year should be a good one in terms of the rivalry. the two teams should be butting heads all year.
# J. Alfred Prufrock February 1st, 2011 at 12:17 pm
Against All Odds February 1st, 2011 at 11:44 am
“3. Joba’s value is sinking like a stone in a lake – the Yankees may be inclined to deal him rather than watch it bottom out completely.”
You mean he’s not going to increase his value in middle relief?
////
& cash has insisted that Joba is going to be a 6th/7th inning stud…
————————————————–
Oh yea Cash believes he’s going to be an “exceptional reliever” even though he’s pitching in the middle of the game.
Against All Odds February 1st, 2011 at 12:23 pm
# J. Alfred Prufrock February 1st, 2011 at 12:17 pm
Against All Odds February 1st, 2011 at 11:44 am
“3. Joba’s value is sinking like a stone in a lake – the Yankees may be inclined to deal him rather than watch it bottom out completely.”
You mean he’s not going to increase his value in middle relief?
////
& cash has insisted that Joba is going to be a 6th/7th inning stud…
————————————————–
Oh yea Cash believes he’s going to be an “exceptional reliever” even though he’s pitching in the middle of the game.
///precisely,so can we really afford to part with this most coveted of pitchers?the shining stars of middle relief??
# J. Alfred Prufrock February 1st, 2011 at 12:39 pm
Against All Odds February 1st, 2011 at 12:23 pm
# J. Alfred Prufrock February 1st, 2011 at 12:17 pm
Against All Odds February 1st, 2011 at 11:44 am
“3. Joba’s value is sinking like a stone in a lake – the Yankees may be inclined to deal him rather than watch it bottom out completely.”
You mean he’s not going to increase his value in middle relief?
////
& cash has insisted that Joba is going to be a 6th/7th inning stud…
————————————————–
Oh yea Cash believes he’s going to be an “exceptional reliever” even though he’s pitching in the middle of the game.
///precisely,so can we really afford to part with this most coveted of pitchers?the shining stars of middle relief??
——————————-
I agree with you we can’t give up on a kid that means so much to the future of the ball club. He’s so great…too great for the 8th inning. When it’s all said and done he might be the greatest middle reliever of all time. I smell a Yankeeography
I was a 13-year-old kid from the South, visiting the City with my dad, and the two of us were at Shea that weekend. I was a Sox fan in those days, because Yaz had played his first year of A-level ball in my hometown: My dad had talked about him a lot.
The things I remember from that doubleheader were the number of fights in the stands, and that my dad told me I should try not to cheer for the Sox too robustly.
I agree with this post. I rooted for the Yankees throughout the 50s up till 1966, and we never really thought much about the Red Sox. Nowadays Yankee fans are obsessed with them!
The Yankee-Red Sox rivalry as we know it began in December 2002. After Bucky Dent’s homerun, what happened? The Yanks nosedived between 81 and 96, and when they rose from the ashes, the big competition was the Orioles in the Ripken, Alomar, Murray, and Palmeiro era. But in 02, that jackass Larry Lucchino made his disingenuous comment about the “evil empire.” And since 02, with John Henry’s money behind him–pushing the Red Sox to be almost as evil if only they had a few more bucks–it became a heated and actual rivalry. Let’s not pretend that the current unpleasantness has anything to do with Bucky Dent, Joe DiMaggio, Ted Williams, or Babe Ruth–the roots just don’t run that deep.
The Yankees simply have to keep spending to feed the market (like Disney World needing new attractions every year). The Red Sox? Are they in it for quite the same long haul? We’ll see. I’ll welcome their fading away into irrelevance ASAP.