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Sherman: Winter plans are “subject to re-write”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 02, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Joel Sherman made two good Yankees observations on his Hardball blog this morning.

1. “(W)hatever the rules are in the chill of February, remember that they are always subject to re-write.”

Sherman pointed out that 10 years ago, Alfonso Soriano hit his way into a big league role sooner than expected, and four years ago, injuries forced Phil Hughes into a big league role sooner than the Yankees would have liked. Who’s to say something similar couldn’t happen this season with the Yankees talented young pitchers?

It’s a good point, especially considering Hughes was rushed to the big leagues precisely because the Yankees rotation became very thin, very quickly. That’s a scenario that could easily play out with a rotation that’s pretty thin to begin with. The Yankees would prefer to move slowly with Andrew Brackman, Dellin Betances and Manny Banuelos, but if one of those three once again cruises through minor league hitters — especially Brackman, who’s more advanced — the Yankees could combine need with performance and make those moves sooner than expected.

Right now, Hector Noesi, David Phelps and D.J. Mitchell might be closer to a big league role than any of the Killer Bs — Noesi, Phelps and Mitchell have already pitched in Triple-A — but it’s worth remembering that back in 2007 the Yankees went through Darrell Rasner, Jeff Karstens and Chase Wright before calling on their top pitching prospect. Even so, they still had Hughes in the big leagues before the end of April.

2. “I think it remains a pretty good likelihood that Andy Pettitte will return and the Yanks will make a trade in spring for a starter…”

It’s not clear whether this is based on conversations within the Yankees front office or simply a guess on Sherman’s part. The Pettitte part isn’t what interests me — at this point I think everyone has an opinion, but no one has a strong sense of what he’s going to do — but I wonder if Sherman’s onto something about a spring trade.

Obviously the starting pitcher trade market didn’t offer much of interest this winter. I’m sure there were names tossed back and forth, but ultimately Brian Cashman decided nothing made sense for the Yankees. The market, though, might change once spring training gets started and teams get a better sense of exactly what they have.

Who might the Yankees target? I have no idea, and that’s kind of the point. If there were an obvious trade partner right now the Yankees would have pulled the trigger already. As it stands, though, it seems that nothing worthwhile is out there, so the Yankees need something to shake up the market. Spring training might be just the thing to do that.

Associated Press photo of Hughes

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63 Responses to “Sherman: Winter plans are “subject to re-write””

  1. Rich in NJ February 2nd, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    As long as the competition is determined by performance rather than Veteran-ness, I’m fine with the outcome.

  2. Rich in NJ February 2nd, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    If Pettitte comes back and is healthy and effective, AJ pitches decently, and everything is as expected, trading for another starter would be a major fail.

    If the Cashman rhetoric about growing their own means anything, stop the freakin’ madness.

  3. Erica in NY February 2nd, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    Right now, Hector Noesi, David Phelps and D.J. Mitchell might be closer to a big league role than any of the Killer Bs — Noesi, Phelps and Mitchell have already pitched in Triple-A — but it’s worth remembering that back in 2007 the Yankees went through Darrell Rasner, Jeff Karstens and Chase Wright before calling on their top pitching prospect. Even so, they still had Hughes in the big leagues before the end of April
    *************

    I still remember the headline of the paper that year-
    Cashman: Hughes Will Not Phil-In

    Guess that goes in the “Bubba Crosby Will be our Centerfielder” file

  4. Erica in NY February 2nd, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    Just in case anyone was worried-

    Of course there is more snow coming by the end of the week!!

    http://www.accuweather.com/blo.....ther-s.asp

  5. SJ44 February 2nd, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    I think it’s always more prudent to keep your options open and not get locked into any singular philosophy.

  6. tyanksfan36 February 2nd, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    Yankees 1st whole workout day is a sunday, if the stadium is open ill be able to goo. So excited, ill try to get some scoop while I’m there. I really hope the stadium is open cause its the only day ill make it since I’m going to Rays fanfest the 19th.

    Erica-

    If Johnny is at the fanfest ill try to get a picture for you :) and if autographs were free I’d get you one.

  7. UnKnown February 2nd, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    The 19th is late for fanfest is it not, because wont the Rays already went to spring training?

  8. Betsy February 2nd, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    There is no excuse for rushing Banuelos or Betances. Perhaps Brackman, but not the other two. I didn’t like Phil being rushed then and I still don’t.

  9. tyanksfan36 February 2nd, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    Erica

    It was 60 when I left my house at 645 this morning. Its just crazy to think that we have such warm weather and everyone else is experiencing the snowpacolypse.

  10. Rich in NJ February 2nd, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    “I think it’s always more prudent to keep your options open and not get locked into any singular philosophy.”

    They are pretty much locked into the win-now philosophy.

  11. SJ44 February 2nd, 2011 at 7:55 pm

    Every team in sports should have a win now philosophy.

    Fans pay good money to watch their teams and they want to see wins.

    You can still break in younger players and still be dedicated to winni g. One doesn’t preclude the other and the Yankees have shown that the past several years.

    By keeping your options open, I mean always looking to upgrade the team.

    If a homegrown guy can help, you add him. If a trade helps, you do it.

    You don’t have to be locked into one way of doing it.

    When Highes was rushed, they didn’t have the depth in the system they have now.

    Which is why, regardless of how they pitch this year, it’s very unlikely you will see Betances or Banuelos in NY this year.

  12. tyanksfan36 February 2nd, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    Unknown

    Here is the link for Fanfest:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/tb/fan_forum/fan_fest.jsp

    The Trop and the field where the Rays do their Spring Training are only about 2 hours apart.

  13. Rich in NJ February 2nd, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    “Every team in sports should have a win now philosophy.”

    I don’t think any team should have a win-now philosophy. If you make smart decisions that account for both short and long time horizons, you can always be in a position to win. That’s how you reward fans’ good money.

    OTOH, if you overemphasize the present, you leave yourself vulnerable to unpredictable injuries and premature age-related declines.

  14. Betsy February 2nd, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    SJ, that’s good because I’m sure the Yankees wish they didn’t have to resort to bringing Phil up. I will say re: Hughes in 2007 though that he ended up with fine #s for a 21 year old in the AL East so I’m sure he got a good education.

  15. Erica in NY February 2nd, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    tyanksfan36 February 2nd, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    Erica-

    If Johnny is at the fanfest ill try to get a picture for you and if autographs were free I’d get you one.

    ********

    Thank you!!!!

    Spring training in Florida and my job are not compatible

  16. West Coast Yankee Fan February 2nd, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    Joba Chamberlain for Hasni Mubarek and a couple of camels.

  17. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    Cervelli jumped in and handled the pitching staff in no time. Without even the benefit of serious ST prep.

  18. Rich in NJ February 2nd, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    The one exception may be basketball when you have an aging but still dominant player. They have a vastly disproportionate impact on Ws and Ls. One superstar and one pretty good player in the NBA can win rings. That isn’t possible in any other sport.

  19. Nick in SF February 2nd, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    I appreciate the notice that Audrey Bitoni will be performing at Stiletto in West Nyack, NY and Carlstadt, NJ, but I feel like January 21st and 22nd have already slipped away.

    Or is this very early notice for 2012?

  20. SJ44 February 2nd, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    Just about every team that “builds for the future” never wins.

    Look at Tampa. Three year window to win and now they are rebuilding again.

    The Marlins aren’t close to winning and they are always “building for the future”.

    Same goes for Oakland, KC, Pittsburgh, and countless other teams.

    Teams love to sell hope to fans. However, when it becomes more hopeless than hope, you go nowhere.

    Teams who want to win now aren’t the only ones prone to mistakes.

    So are teams that overemphasize their young players and stay too long with them.

    Winning is what it’s all about.

    To get there, it involves BALANCE.

    Without it, you lose, whether you play kids or play veterans.

  21. SJ44 February 2nd, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    Cervelli had the benefit of five years in the system calling games and was also older, and more mature than Montero. He also had the rep of being a good defender and game caller. The two aren’t comparable.

  22. Rich in NJ February 2nd, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    “Just about every team that “builds for the future” never wins.”

    That’s not what I said.

    I said:

    “If you make smart decisions that account for both short and long time horizons, you can always be in a position to win. That’s how you reward fans’ good money.”

    “Look at Tampa. Three year window to win and now they are rebuilding again.”

    The salary structure in MLB does skew the range of potential outcomes.

    TB’s 2010 payroll: $ 72,847,133

    NYY’s 2010 payroll: $213,359,389

  23. West Coast Yankee Fan February 2nd, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    It’s not as cerebral as some would make it out to be, and over analysis leads to paralysis. In the words of another Boss, “he could throw that streetball by you make you look like a fool boy”.

    It’s ultimately a kids game played by adults and if you’re good enough, if you can hit or pitch, you will play. In Montero scolds the ball and Banuelos and Betances mow them down in AA and AAA this year they will be here far sooner than people think. IMO.

  24. SJ44 February 2nd, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    Develop,met time is essential. Especially in this era of pitch counts and innings limits.

    Regardless ofmhow kidsmthrow in AA, if their innings limit is in the 130 range and, in the case of Banuelos, is not on the 40 man roster, he’s not pitching in NY this year.

    As far as salary disparity, that’s a. Team choice and not always something that’s legitimate.

    Tampa has a great local TV deal. If they so choose, they could take their payroll to 90 million and still turn a profit. Especially with their cut of the revenuesharing pie.

    They sliced it to around 48 million this year because they are trying to leverage the city fathers for a new stadium.

    The Twins cried poor mouth for years, even though their owner was one of the wealthiest owners in the game.

    They get a new stadium, and now their payroll is over 115 million this year.

    Often, teams intentionally keep payroll down for reasons that go beyond “we don’t have the money”.

    It’s an 8 billion dollar industry now. Everybody, sans the Dodgers and Mets are doing very well and their troubles are for non-baseball issues.

  25. Rich in NJ February 2nd, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    “It’s an 8 billion dollar industry now. Everybody, sans the Dodgers and Mets are doing very well and their troubles are for non-baseball issues.”

    There’s a difference between doing well and being the Yankees, who can basically print money. As has been said by others much smarter than I am, the real advantage that the Yankees’ resources confers is that they can make multi-million mistakes with only minor collateral impact (e.g., Pavano). Maybe the RS can do that to some extend (e.g., Lugo), but virtually no other team can.

  26. jacksquat February 2nd, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    Any pitcher that can pitch well in the majors is not being rushed as long as he is not being overextended physically.

  27. UnKnown February 2nd, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    SJ spot on about your comment on the Twins organization. Pretty funny how some teams can play the poor me card when in fact its not the case.

  28. SJ44 February 2nd, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    Under the system though, they can’t really “print money” because by doing so, they fund their competitors excessively.

    The Red Sox, Mets, Giants, Dodgers, Angels, and a couple of other teams, can also eat bad contracts. Perhaps not to the level of the Yankees but, they can still carry dead money and do.

    The Yankees are more balanced in their philosophy than they have been in years.

    The problem they struggle with, which is unique to this (and perhaps Boston) marketplace is the way the fans and media can eat up young players. Especially if they start slowly.

    That’s why you will never see them have an all-homegrown team or punt a season away (as was suggested in the guest post today) to go with the kids.

  29. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    SJ-

    So, to put it more simply, you are saying that
    the NY Yankees will never act completely like a small-market team nor should they.

    In a nutshell, is that about it ?

  30. blake February 2nd, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    “The Yankees are more balanced in their philosophy than they have been in years.”

    Which is great because I think they are going to have to be. Just in the last couple years we have seen a huge jump in the number of teams that are spending cash to lock up there good young players. The Yankees are always going to have the money to fill needs via free agency….it just seems the way the game and teams are trending, there may not be as much quality hitting free agency as in years past.

  31. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    I, for one, am looking forward to watching Cashman and Co. navigate the high wire act
    wherein they try to balance the need to win now with the need to prepare for the future.

    Should be a fun ride.

    :)

  32. SJ44 February 2nd, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    MTU,

    Exactly.

    That said, what Blake said is also true. Teams are locking up many of their younger players to long term deals.

    That means, have a healthy and productive farm system is very important.

    They also have the luxury of not rushing kids to the big league prematurely.

    Which is why I don’t believe they will rush Montero, Baneulos, and Betances, their top 3 players closest to the majors who have a chance to be future all stars.

    It really is a big balancing act. You also have to factor in attrition, injuries, and guys you end up trading.

  33. PhiltheThrill February 2nd, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    So how is everyone?

  34. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    SJ-

    It can’t be easy.

    The Yankees position is a unique one with
    unique demands.

    Our farm system is now near the top.

    That bodes well for the future.

    I hope they continue to improve the quality
    process throughout all levels of the organization.

    It’s a good time to be a Yankee fan.

    :)

  35. PhiltheThrill February 2nd, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    I think Andy will come back, and they won’t trade for another pitcher.

  36. blake February 2nd, 2011 at 9:06 pm

    SJ,

    yea with the game trending younger and teams trending the way they are it’s really important that the Yanks have been able to rebuild and strengthen their farm system. As you say, they have no reason to rush guys but its much better to supplement your homegrown players from outside the organization than the other way around….which is what they got into a few years back.

  37. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    What you been up to Phil ?

    You haven’t been around much.

    Welcome back.

  38. SJ44 February 2nd, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    Philthethrill!!!

    Welcome back!

    Hope all is well and you are back posting regularly. You were missed!

    I agree with you. I believe Andy is coming back.

  39. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    Blake-

    There can be no doubt that Cashman has improved the farm system significantly.

    That is is his just due.

  40. PhiltheThrill February 2nd, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    The farm system is improving by leaps and bounds and two of the major reasons are Cash’s re-commitment to it, and the great job they did of cleaning up the situation in the DR. Over the past few years, they’ve been getting more bang for the buck because of scouting superiority, and we’ll start seeing some of those players – like Ravel Santana – stateside this year. The job now will be separating the tradeable assets from the future core.

  41. JCPD February 2nd, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    The Yankees position is a unique one with
    unique demands.

    ————————————————————

    MTU, unfortunately that win it all or it’s a failure mentality that George had has spread to a large portion of the fan base that will never be happy unless it’s a 100 win season and WS championship. I demand that the Mariners trade us King Felix for Cervelli….. go make it happen or your cut off from tomorrow mornings pictures. :-)

  42. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    Phil-

    Who are some of your personal keepers ?

    I am curious if you’ll put anyone on there that
    would surprise me.

  43. PhiltheThrill February 2nd, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    MTU,

    Montero, Sanchez, Banuelos, and Betances. Plus, I think we had a sneaky good draft last year and guys like Culver, Gumbs and Williams could make themselves untouchable, as well as Santana and some of the the IFA’s.

  44. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    JCPD-

    I hope you had a productive day today. I look forward to seeing your photos.

    If that means I need to put in a call to Jack Z
    I am even willing to talk to him so that I won’t be cut off.

    ;)

  45. blake February 2nd, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    Phil,

    nice seeing you posting again.

  46. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    Phil-

    DePaula, Marshall, and Ramirez ?

  47. ac1 February 2nd, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    SI_JonHeyman #yankees still in contact with millwood. does this mean they’re growing more worried about pettitte’s decision?

    _____

    oy…

  48. JCPD February 2nd, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    MTU, it was a good day, any day off is good, even saw some sun and then of course the rain came as you will see. That being said, I didn’t particularly care for many of the pics I got.

  49. PhiltheThrill February 2nd, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    I’m excited about those pitchers, though Ramirez needs a breaking ball. I also, like Phelps and Warren and a few of the relievers, but they’re all deal-able.

  50. Stoneburner February 2nd, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    I am diehard – but got a chuckle out of this from a tweet from another diehard in response to his pal Simmons at ESPN:

    @sportsguy33 You could have left off the “of riches” part. “Spahn and Sain and pray for rain” is now “CC and Hughes…then we lose.”

  51. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    JCPD-

    I’ll be heading out tomorrow for a hike.

    It’s nice to have you on a more normal schedule.

    You will be able to post more.

    I am sure the great photos will come.

    You have the ability, and that camera is more than capable.

  52. blake February 2nd, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    If Millwood will do a deal like Garcia then I’d just bring him on as well….let the best man between he, Garcia, and Colon win……why not.

  53. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    Phil-

    There is so much talent in the system right now it is a practical impossibility to keep ‘em all.

    You didn’t surprise me with your picks.

    Most, if not all, would be mine.

    Thanks.

  54. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    Cervelli barely caught when he was in the minors. He was either injured or someone else was higher in the totem pole often.

    I am but home to check the numbers now but I would bet Montero has caught more games in the minors than Cervelli.

    I think people overrate “handling a staff” Cera has been shown to be meaningless. I have never read anything bad about Montero game calling. With a bench calling pitches, and a veteran staff who can mostly call their own game I don’t see any reason Montero would have a problem handling it.

    Catchers shuffle duk the time and performance does but change.

  55. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    Blake-

    Let’s just have one grand competition.

    The more the merrier.

    Best 2 win unless AP surprises us.

  56. blake February 2nd, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    MTU,

    yea wouldn’t hurt. Millwood can probably get a big league deal from somebody though I’d imagine and and can’t him wanting to do that….but I didn’t really see Garcia doing it either so you never know.

  57. G. Love February 2nd, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    If you don’t have to sign Millwood to a major league deal and he comes in competing for a spot, I sign him.

    Until Andy is back, we need all the depth and potential candidates we can get for the rotation.

    It’s not time for screwing around anymore. Spring training is coming and if Andy isn’t coming back we need more guys who can navigate a major league lineup to pick from until the kids step up and prove they are ready.

  58. SJ44 February 2nd, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    Benches dont call pitches. They call pitch outs and throw overs.

    I know a little bit about this subject because I’m dealing with this now with my nephew.

    The ability to call a game, and handle a pitching staff, is paramount for every catcher in MLB. Especially starting catchers.

    Add to it, the pressure of NY and a veteran staff and there is no way Jesus Montero is the starting catcher here until they are comfortable with him in those areas.

    They won’t be calling pitches from the bench nor will the pitchers be calling their own games.

    It’s why he’s not going to be thrown in there to catch half or more of the games this season.

    It will be a gradual entry into the mix.

  59. PhiltheThrill February 2nd, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    MTU, there is a ton of talent in the system right now, and there could be more Yankees there than the ones I have named, both Adams and Joseph, for example, may have Yankee bats.

  60. SJ44 February 2nd, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    They have caught roughly the same amount of games in the minors because Montero has DH’ed in over 100 minor league games.

    He’s also played on less season than Cervelli did in the minors and hasn’t played winter ball the past two years.

    He’s still raw, but at a good learning level.

    If they felt he was ready, they wouldn’t have signed Russell Martin.

    That deal should give you every indication they aren’t expecting him to catch a lot in NY this year.

    I do think there is the potential for him to see DH time.

  61. 4 NYY February 2nd, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    Actually, pitchers are in charge. They can shake off any pitch they don’t like.

    Or, is the part of the game changed also ? Don’t think so.

  62. PhiltheThrill February 2nd, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    They signed Russell Martin to make sure there was no pressure on Montero. They won’t be surprised if he forces the issue.

  63. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    :arrow:

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