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Yankees trade for Nationals OF Justin Maxwell

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 02, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Here’s the announcement from the Yankees.

The New York Yankees today acquired outfielder Justin Maxwell from the Washington Nationals in exchange for right-handed minor league pitcher Adam Olbrychowski.

Maxwell, 27, has appeared in 122 career Major League games over three seasons with Washington (2007, ’09-10), compiling a .201 (44-for-219) batting average with nine home runs and 26 RBI. He entered the 2010 season ranked by Baseball America as the eighth-best prospect in the Nationals organization, hitting .144 (15-for-104) with three home runs and 12 RBI in 67 games at the Major League level in 2010. He also appeared in 66 games with Triple-A Syracuse, batting .287 (66-for-230) with 17 doubles, six home runs and 21 RBI. The Maryland native was selected by Washington in the fourth round of the 2005 First-Year Player Draft.

Olbrychowski, 25, combined to go 3-2 with a 3.90 ERA (67.0IP, 29ER) in 32 games (one start) with Double-A Trenton and Single-A Tampa in 2010. He spent the majority of the season with Tampa, where he went 3-2 with a 4.02 ERA (62.2IP, 28ER), before being promoted to Trenton on September 1.

To make room on the Yankees’ 40-man roster, outfielder Jordan Parraz was designated for assignment.

UPDATE, 2:55 p.m.: When Maxwell was designated for assignment, I wrote that he might be an interesting addition for the Yankees, but I wasn’t sure he’d fit because Parraz was already on the roster.

His big league numbers aren’t much, but Maxwell can play all three outfield positions, and he has a little bit of speed and power. Three years ago, when Baseball America ranked him as a Top 10 prospect in the Nationals system, they noted that Maxwell, “garners comparisons to Mike Cameron for his speed/power mix and inability to hit for average.”

That might be what he is: A young, poor man’s version of Cameron. He’s probably not an everyday guy on a team like the Yankees, but he has enough going for him to be a complimentary piece off the bench. Nothing against Parraz — who I’ve never met and have never seen — I’d rather have a guy who hit .287/.390/.439 last year in the pitcher-friendly International League (Maxwell) than a guy who hit .266/.350/.410 in the hitter-friendly Pacific Coast League (Parraz).

It’s basically an upgrade of fifth outfielder options, and it came at the cost of a guy who’s buried in this system. Olbrychowski might develop into a solid reliever, but he was pretty low on the depth chart for the Yankees.

By the way, I was just told that Maxwell has a fourth option year, so he can be sent to the minor leagues this season if he doesn’t make the big league roster.

Associated Press photo of Maxwell

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545 Responses to “Yankees trade for Nationals OF Justin Maxwell”

  1. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    To make room on the Yankees’ 40-man roster, outfielder Jordan Parraz was designated for assignment.

    I’m a little surprised by that move given his performance this winter. I would have thought the Yankees might have taken a longer look at him.

    That said, I think between Maxwell, Golson and Curtis they have plenty to choose from.

    On another note:

    Chad – any reason the Andruw Jones thing hasn’t been made official? Or did I miss it? And if I missed it, who got cut from the 40?

  2. Rich in NJ February 2nd, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    I can see that he has always had a very good ISO D and a decent ISO in the mLs, although obviously he was old for the leagues he played in.

  3. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    Patrick February 2nd, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    And you don’t have to be a pitching coach to look at velocity numbers and see that A.J.’s went down significantly in 2010.

    ———————–

    Yeah but what you’re doing is akin to a layman saying a sore arm means you’re having a heart attack.

    You’re looking at reduced velocity without context – we don’t know why the velocity was down, if it was a mechanical thing that can be fixed or reduction of stuff or just a different radar gun.

  4. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    Adam Olbrychowski

    Somewhere in Washington there is a clubhouse manager saying “oh for the love of all that’s holy don’t let this guy make it to the majors with us – I do not want to have to sew that name onto a uniform.”

  5. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    Chip-

    Hey. It’s better than having to spell Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

    So there’s that.

    :)

  6. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    Maxwell has hit for power, steals bases and can cover all three outfield spots. I still like Golson, though. Adam Olbrychowski isn’t a bad pitcher, just not needed. Converted from starter to bullpen.

  7. upstate kate February 2nd, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    haha Chip, do you remember last season (or maybe 09) when they misspelled “nationals” on their unis? espn would not let it go, called them the natinals all year.

    is Jerkface around? I believe he told us Andy was signing yesterday…well…???

  8. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 2:44 pm
    Chip-

    Hey. It’s better than having to spell Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

    So there’s that.

    —————-

    Nah that’s easy to spell “B.U.S.T.”

  9. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    upstate kate February 2nd, 2011 at 2:45 pm
    haha Chip, do you remember last season (or maybe 09) when they misspelled “nationals” on their unis? espn would not let it go, called them the natinals all year.

    is Jerkface around? I believe he told us Andy was signing yesterday…well…???

    —————-

    I do remember that – pretty funny.

  10. tyanksfan36 February 2nd, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    Olbrychowski wasn’t the best reliever. They’ll hardly miss him in Trenton.

  11. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    Chip-

    Nope. Y.I.P.S.

    See I fixed that for ya’.

    :)

  12. Patrick February 2nd, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    Yeah but what you’re doing is akin to a layman saying a sore arm means you’re having a heart attack.

    You’re looking at reduced velocity without context – we don’t know why the velocity was down, if it was a mechanical thing that can be fixed or reduction of stuff or just a different radar gun.

    I never made any conclusions based on the decreased velocity beyond saying that it can’t be good a thing. You don’t have to be a genius to figure that out…

  13. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    Really surprised that Reegie Corona wasn’t the one that was DFA’d. I still think that Romulo Sanchez gets moved.

  14. Patrick February 2nd, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    is Jerkface around? I believe he told us Andy was signing yesterday…well…???

    I think that was a typo. Jerkface meant to say that Andy was singing yesterday.

  15. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    In the spirit of Super Bowl parties across the land – my chicken wing recipe:

    first – the night before brine the wings in a solution using the following ratio for every gallon of water use:
    1 c of Kosher Salt
    1/2 c of maple syrup
    1/4 c garlic powder
    1/4 c onion powder
    1/4 c cracked black pepper

    the next day drain and pat dry the wings and then fry them in peanut or canola oil (375 for about 12 min per pound of wings)

    remove and let drain on a cooling rack

    In a saucepan combine 1 stick unsalted butter with 3 cups franks red hot sauce one finely diced habanero pepper (seeds and ribs removed), 1 cup ketsup and 1/2 cup of honey or agave nectar, wisk over medium heat until combined and lightly bubbling. Toss with wings to combine.

    For dipping:
    Crumble on block of maytag blue cheese
    mix with 1/2 c mayo and 1/2 c sour cream or creme freche

  16. upstate kate February 2nd, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    ahhh…well did he sing yesterday?

  17. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    Patrick February 2nd, 2011 at 2:49 pm
    Yeah but what you’re doing is akin to a layman saying a sore arm means you’re having a heart attack.

    You’re looking at reduced velocity without context – we don’t know why the velocity was down, if it was a mechanical thing that can be fixed or reduction of stuff or just a different radar gun.

    I never made any conclusions based on the decreased velocity beyond saying that it can’t be good a thing. You don’t have to be a genius to figure that out…

    —————-

    You said it doesn’t bode well for the future – truth be told it’s meaningless for the future since we don’t know a cause or if it can be remedied.

  18. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    Forgot two things in the brining solution:

    1/4 c dried mexican oregeno
    1/2 c paprika

  19. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    Chip-

    Thanks for the recipe but I’m having the GB special value meal.

    :)

  20. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 2:51 pm
    Really surprised that Reegie Corona wasn’t the one that was DFA’d. I still think that Romulo Sanchez gets moved.

    ———————-

    I think Corona goes when they make the Jones signing official.

    I also think Sanchez gets traded – probably for a very similar pitcher who has options left.

  21. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 2:58 pm
    Chip-

    Thanks for the recipe but I’m having the GB special value meal.

    —————–

    Booze & smokes?

  22. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 2:59 pm

    We will learn a lot this season about the Yankees current business model. The farm system is budding with talent, but unless actually used and those players given the chance to succeed we do not know really how the Yankees plan to operate in a system where cost controlled players are the lifeblood of MLB and the FA market gets dryer and dryer as each year passes.

    The primary reason the Yankees did not win the AL East last year and thereby put themselves in the optimal position to advance to the WS was deference to veterans.

    Tex killed the lineup for months in the 3 hole. Jeter’s poor performance vs RHP hurt the lineup the entire season.

    More importantly, they stuck with Javier Vazquez too long. AJ Burnett was given too many opportunities to just basically punt away games on his own. Scrubs like Dustin Moseley, Sergio Mitre, and Chad Gaudin were given opportunities that players on the farm were not. Those 5 under performing players pitched far too often last year and blocked too many promising pitchers on the farm.

    Ivan Nova was called up far too late. He did not start a game until August 23rd. That is absurd given the below replacement level players who were starting ahead of him. No other prospect was given a chance. A player like David Phelps should absolutely have been given an opportunity last season.

    The amount of deference the Yankees show veteran players this year will tell us an incredible amount about their current business model and their commitment to the farms system.

    If Jeter continues to struggle vs RHP whiles Gardner thrives he needs to be moved. If Russel Martin continues to absolutely suck like he has for 2 seasons now, Montero needs to be up here ASAP. If Freddy Garcia or Colon are in the rotation and are not getting the the job, they need to go in favor of a young pitcher. Pitchers like Mitre or a Moseley or a Gaudin type should not be given opportunities.

    People can talk all they want about Garcia bridging the gap or buying time for the young pitchers. Or the same with Martin in regard to Montero.

    But it is all talk when it comes to the Yankees. They just don’t do that. They show incredible patience and deference to veterans.

    Like Wave, I border on thinking this amount of deference will continue and I am skeptical the kids will get their shot.

  23. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 2:59 pm

    Beer and pizza.

    ;)

  24. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    Maybe the Yanks ship Sanchez and Parraz to KC for Gordon. Maxwell and Golson still have one option left.

  25. Chad Jennings February 2nd, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    Not sure why Jones hasn’t been announced. I’ve had Jones conversations with people in the organization, so I’m still sure it’s a done deal. It could be that they’re simply waiting to announce it on a day that Jones can either do a press conference or conference call. Sometimes the delay is for weird things like that.

    Also, if you missed the update above, Maxwell has burned through three options, but he has a fourth option year, meaning he can be sent to Scranton this season if he doesn’t make the big league club out of spring training. Based strictly on numbers — and based on the Maxwell solid speed and power — I think he’s an upgrade over Parraz. He hasn’t done much in the big leagues the past two years, but his development suggests he’s a legitimate fourth/fifth outfield option.

  26. Rich in NJ February 2nd, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    LGY is one of the few people that would motivate me to read a post that long… ;)

    I agree, which is why I said the Yankees have a good business model, but hardly great.

  27. pat February 2nd, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    Joelsherman1 #Yankees like Maxwell for same reason as Golson: big, strong, fast, defense, but many holes in swing. Like also Maxwell has option left

  28. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 2:59 pm

    People can talk all they want about Garcia bridging the gap or buying time for the young pitchers. Or the same with Martin in regard to Montero.

    But it is all talk when it comes to the Yankees. They just don’t do that. They show incredible patience and deference to veterans.

    ——————-

    Depends on the veteran.

    If you’re talking about Derek Jeter who is an icon to this team, or a superstar like Tex then yes, they’re going to be patient – but if there’s a pitcher in AAA mowing guys down and Freddy Garcia stinks then I don’t think the Yankees will be all that resistant to change; if Russ Martin is awful and Montero is tearing the cover off the ball and playing a reasonable catcher – then he’ll be up here. But are they going to bench Jeter for Nunez? No. Are they going to drop him to the 9 spot in the lineup? No.

    Tony Womack was awful – they called up Cano
    Ron Villone wasn’t getting it done – they called up Joba

  29. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    GB-

    I’d do that deal in a heartbeat within a microsecond.

  30. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    The only thing last year showed about the minor leagers was that most of them weren’t ready for the ML…including Phelps and Nova.

  31. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Rich

    :lol:

    Sorry. I never do realize how much I ramble on in a long post until I hit submit :(

  32. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    LGY-

    I agree with Chip’s take. And SJ’s.

    There is not going to be a complete change of Yankee philosophy in the direction of the Minors.

    They will never operate completely like a small market team.

    If that’s what your looking for you are going to be disappointed IMHO.

  33. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:05 pm
    The only thing last year showed about the minor leagers was that most of them weren’t ready for the ML…including Phelps and Nova.

    —————-

    Well said.

    There are some folks here who seem to think that they’re a better judge of when a prospect is ready to make it to the majors than the Yankees are.

  34. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    MTU, Gordon’s running out of spots to play. He hasn’t shown to be all that special yet, but, I believe that he’s out of options, and Parraz could go back to KC. NYYs lose nothing and maybe helps the bench.

  35. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    GB-

    I think Gordon might benefit from a change of scenery.

    You’re right. Nothing to lose.

  36. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:09 pm
    MTU, Gordon’s running out of spots to play. He hasn’t shown to be all that special yet, but, I believe that he’s out of options, and Parraz could go back to KC. NYYs lose nothing and maybe helps the bench.

    ———————-

    I have nothing against that move.

    Though how about Sanchez to the Dodgers for Casey Blake?

    Can back up the same spots as Gordon and has a little bit of a better bat. Dodgers would probably love to ditch the last year of his contract.

  37. SJ44 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    Phelps was only in his second year in the system. He was hardly ready to be thrust into a pennant race.

    Nova was the classic “late bloomer”.

    They weren’t going to dump Vazquez or AJ for either guy.

    You don’t move Tex out of the 3 hole because the guy has been a beast there in his entire career.

    Sometimes moving guys can cause more problems than solutions in certain situations.

    They have Nova penciled into the rotation.

    Over the past two years, there are numerous examples of them showing confidence, and trying to use, homegrown guys.

  38. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    Ivan Nova was ready on August 23rd but wasn’t ready on July 23rd?

    That they weren’t ready is a complete cup out.

    You don’t know a player is ready until he shows you in the majors.

    The Yankees had a number of better options last season than the smorgasboard of below replacement level pitchers they kept throwing put there, but they die not pursue those options.

    And it cost them the SL East

  39. blake February 2nd, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    Trading for Maxwell seems Smart ;)

  40. SJ44 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    Hughes, Chamberlain, Coke, and Aceves were homegrown guys put in the pen that helped the team win the WS.

    Gardner, Cervelli, Pena and Nunez have been added to the mix.

    You now have Nova, Montero and possibly a few others knocking at the door.

    I’d say they are doing a good job so far of balancing winning with a core of veterans still trying for rings and adding some younger players into the mix.

  41. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    Blake-

    Is he a secret agent too ?

    ;)

  42. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    blake February 2nd, 2011 at 3:22 pm
    Trading for Maxwell seems Smart

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    That a worse pun than I ever put on this board. Congratulations. A pun is only good if it makes people groan in agony.

  43. austinmac February 2nd, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    Blake,

    I liked it, but others will 86 your joke. 99 chances out of 100.

  44. Rich in NJ February 2nd, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    blake

    We need to 86 all Get Smart puns.

  45. SJ44 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    Not using Ivan Nova didn’t cost them the AL East.

    In fact, what Nova showed was he wasn’t quite ready for primetime.

    What cost them the AL East was, playing poorly in September, a month long collective team hitting slump, Girardi taking his foot off the gas, and injuries. It wasn’t not going to Ivan Nova earlier.

  46. Cashman needs to go February 2nd, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    Cashman (running out from his office) – “ATTA BABY…I just traded some scrub with a whole bunch of letters in his name for freakin Justin Upton!!!!!….Thats how I roll baby!!!!”

    Pimple faced intern – “Umm Mr Cashman…you traded for Justin Maxwell…not Justin Upton”

    Cashman – “WHAT!!!! Well then I have to get Adam Olbrychowski back….I mean I had him penciled in as my #2 starter in 2015….damn you Washington Nationals!!!”

  47. Rich in NJ February 2nd, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    austinmac beat me to it…more or less…

  48. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    That was no cop out, or even a cup out. Nova needed the extra tune up and Phelps still needs to get his innings and get a final tuneup. Same with Mitchell and Noesi.

  49. blake February 2nd, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    GB,

    You never cut me.any slack do ya….

  50. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 3:21 pm
    Ivan Nova was ready on August 23rd but wasn’t ready on July 23rd?

    That they weren’t ready is a complete cup out.

    You don’t know a player is ready until he shows you in the majors.

    The Yankees had a number of better options last season than the smorgasboard of below replacement level pitchers they kept throwing put there, but they die not pursue those options.

    And it cost them the SL East

    ——————–

    You’re being completely irrational.

    You don’t know that Nova would have done any better – given his performance when he did come up here that’s a huge assumption.

  51. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    Blake, I give you credit for one bad pun, but, you haven’t shown that you can repeat your delivery. Not sure if it’s your mechanics or injured fingers.

  52. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    Interesting that Maxwell supposedly had TJ Surgery in October and is already hitting and throwing.

  53. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    GB-

    He just came up from the minors. Give him a chance.

    He had a pretty good first outing. He’s got the tools.

    ;)

  54. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Ivan Nova put up 0.5 WAR in the short time he was here.

    The Yankees were throwing out below replacement level pitchers multiple times through the rotation once Pettitte got hurt.

    That means, those pitchers HURT the team more than helped. Putting those pitchers on the mound cost them wins. Their performance was a negative contributing to the Yankees.

    Ivan Nova is not a below replacement level pitcher. He has too much talent and was indeed a positive contributer to the team while he was here.

    The Yankees were 27 out of 30 in pitcher ERA post ASB, yet continued to trot out below replacement level pitchers.

    They lost the AL East by one game.

    Nova would have made that up if called up earlier.

  55. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    I just hope that Blake isn’t a flash in the pun.

  56. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Question is – would you rather have Maxwell than Lastings Milledge?

  57. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    GB-

    Recovery time is quicker for a position player opposed to a Pitcher.

    Wasn’t Nady’s time quite a bit shorter too ?

  58. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    It appears that nobody wants Milledge.

  59. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 3:40 pm
    Ivan Nova put up 0.5 WAR in the short time he was here.

    The Yankees were throwing out below replacement level pitchers multiple times through the rotation once Pettitte got hurt.

    That means, those pitchers HURT the team more than helped. Putting those pitchers on the mound cost them wins. Their performance was a negative contributing to the Yankees.

    Ivan Nova is not a below replacement level pitcher. He has too much talent and was indeed a positive contributer to the team while he was here.

    The Yankees were 27 out of 30 in pitcher ERA post ASB, yet continued to trot out below replacement level pitchers.

    They lost the AL East by one game.

    Nova would have made that up if called up earlier.

    ————————

    You’ve convinced me.

    The Yankees are so completely anti-young players getting a shot that they would rather intentionally throw away games than give one a shot.

    There’s no other way to look at it.

    Bad Yankees. Bad, bad Yankees.

    (in case you were wondering – that’s sarcasm)

  60. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    “You’re being completely irrational.

    You don’t know that Nova would have done any better – given his performance when he did come up here that’s a huge assumption.”

    ———————–

    Post ASB

    Vazquez: 6.64 ERA
    Burnett: 5.95 ERA
    Moseley: 5.05 ERA

  61. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    GB-

    No. I doubt that. But he does like his flesh in a pan. that I know.

    ;)

  62. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    The Yankees are so completely anti-young players getting a shot that they would rather intentionally throw away games than give one a shot.

    ————————

    Don’t be stupid and twist my words.

  63. Tyler February 2nd, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 3:40 pm
    Question is – would you rather have Maxwell than Lastings Milledge?
    ————————

    It’s amazing how far Milledge has fallen. He could have brought the Mets Manny or Barry Zito had they pulled the trigger on him in ’06. It just shows how hit and miss prospects can be. I remember him hitting that homerun in the 9th to tie the game and high-fiving fans down the line…. Now he might have to settle for the Independent League. Could have put the Mets over the top in ’06 if they dealt him.

  64. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:43 pm
    It appears that nobody wants Milledge.

    —————–

    I’m surprised by that – he’s not that disruptive. I mean we’re not talking Elijah Dukes

  65. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    Nady got in 2 minor league games after surgery, and still couldn’t throw last year. still, that’s a pretty fast recovery time.

  66. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 3:45 pm
    “You’re being completely irrational.

    You don’t know that Nova would have done any better – given his performance when he did come up here that’s a huge assumption.”

    ———————–

    Post ASB

    Vazquez: 6.64 ERA
    Burnett: 5.95 ERA
    Moseley: 5.05 ERA

    ———–

    and you’re certain that Ivan Nova could have done better?

  67. Jerkface February 2nd, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    Elijah Dukes is a felon, Milledge is more like a child.

  68. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    Tyler February 2nd, 2011 at 3:46 pm
    Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 3:40 pm
    Question is – would you rather have Maxwell than Lastings Milledge?
    ————————

    It’s amazing how far Milledge has fallen. He could have brought the Mets Manny or Barry Zito had they pulled the trigger on him in ’06. It just shows how hit and miss prospects can be. I remember him hitting that homerun in the 9th to tie the game and high-fiving fans down the line…. Now he might have to settle for the Independent League. Could have put the Mets over the top in ’06 if they dealt him.
    ———————-

    Yup – instead he brought them Ryan Church and Brian Schnieder.

    Another strike against prospect hugging.

  69. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    Chip-

    Maybe he isn’t all that talented either.

    ;)

  70. Jerkface February 2nd, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    I think Nova could beat a 6 ERA

  71. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    Chip

    Did you look at those numbers?

    Ha. Yes, I’m quite confident Nova would have done better.

  72. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 3:45 pm
    GB-

    No. I doubt that. But he does like his flesh in a pan. that I know

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    he’s another Robin Luke (Susie Darlin’). A One Hit Punner.

  73. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    Jerkface February 2nd, 2011 at 3:50 pm
    Elijah Dukes is a felon, Milledge is more like a child.

    —————-

    which is why I’m surprised no team has picked him up.

  74. Tyler February 2nd, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 3:50 pm
    Tyler February 2nd, 2011 at 3:46 pm
    Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 3:40 pm
    Question is – would you rather have Maxwell than Lastings Milledge?
    ————————

    It’s amazing how far Milledge has fallen. He could have brought the Mets Manny or Barry Zito had they pulled the trigger on him in ’06. It just shows how hit and miss prospects can be. I remember him hitting that homerun in the 9th to tie the game and high-fiving fans down the line…. Now he might have to settle for the Independent League. Could have put the Mets over the top in ’06 if they dealt him.
    ———————-

    Yup – instead he brought them Ryan Church and Brian Schnieder.

    Another strike against prospect hugging.
    ————————

    In all fairness though it is rather difficult to tell when to pull the trigger on dealing these guys. The last thing a team like the Mets needed (with the little recent success they have had) was to deal Milledge and have him turn into a superstar. It’s such a delicate balance between going for it all one year while also conserving the potential future of the organization.

    That being said, the immaturity of Milledge should have tipped the Mets off. The guy always had character issues going back to high school. My high school played him when they visited Florida and he screamed at the umps all game and threw a tantrum.

  75. Jerkface February 2nd, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    I was for Milledge until we got Jones. For a 5th OFer I’d rather the Yankees have a guy who plays excellent defense and can pinch run. Milledge’s usefulness was in hitting LHP and being able to play mediocre to poor defense. Though I don’t think his tools are bad, he just needs more coaching.

  76. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    SJ-

    You piqued my curiosity with one of your earlier comments.

    You said in one of your posts, and I quote “precious few” mistakes.

    Who were you referring to as a mistaken trade ?

    Did you have someone in mind when you said that ?

  77. Tyler February 2nd, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    Didn’t Milledge get in big trouble back in high school for having sex with a minor? I could be off but if that was proven to be true, Milledge could probably be considered a felon….

  78. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 3:51 pm
    Chip

    Did you look at those numbers?

    Ha. Yes, I’m quite confident Nova would have done better.

    —————-

    Based on what? Minor league numbers?

    Think the Yankees should have benched Tex for Juan Miranda because Miranda had great AAA numbers?

    Jonathan Albaladejo had stellar numbers in AAA last year – should the Yankees have just gone with him instead of dealing for Kerry Wood?

  79. bruceb February 2nd, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    Chip, ty for that fantastic recipe for my favorite American food…chicken wings. Tempted to try it but with my hemorrhoids, I would have an ass like a baboon come Monday morning.

  80. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    GB-

    Like I said. Blake is just gettin into the swing of things on this.

    He has tools. It takes time to get that bad.

    Be patient.

    :)

  81. blake February 2nd, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Gb,

    Im sure I can think up some more….I do need to refine my delivery…

  82. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    LGY -

    Bottom line – if the Yankees thought Nova was ready and would have been an improvement on what they had – he would have been in New York.

    Cashman, Nardi, Girardi and Eiland did not sit around saying “Ivan Nova could help us win a bunch of games but you know what – I really like Dustin Mosely so we should really keep running him out there.”

    And if you think that’s how they operate then you are clueless.

  83. Jerkface February 2nd, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    Now you’re just making irrational statements, Chip. First of all, the Yankees TRIED to go with Albie but he sucked. Predictably or not, but they tried.

    They can’t bench Tex because he is signed for so long and you have to look at his struggles in context. Tex wasn’t struggling in June and July and August, and when he got injured he probably should have been benched since the rosters had expanded. But if you’re looking at Moseley and Vazquez, two guys who have no future with the team, hell yes they should be benched if you have a viable starter waiting behind them.

    If Tex has 1 year left on his deal and he is hitting .180 in July, I would expect they’d bench him!

  84. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 3:56 pm
    GB-

    Like I said. Blake is just gettin into the swing of things on this.

    He has tools. It takes time to get that bad.

    Be patient.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    If i wait much longer, I’ll be a patient….with Randy at “The Home”.

  85. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    bruceb February 2nd, 2011 at 3:56 pm
    Chip, ty for that fantastic recipe for my favorite American food…chicken wings. Tempted to try it but with my hemorrhoids, I would have an ass like a baboon come Monday morning.

    ———————-

    I think we’ve just given Webster’s a new definition for “Overshare”

  86. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    Jerkface February 2nd, 2011 at 3:59 pm
    Now you’re just making irrational statements, Chip. First of all, the Yankees TRIED to go with Albie but he sucked. Predictably or not, but they tried.

    They can’t bench Tex because he is signed for so long and you have to look at his struggles in context. Tex wasn’t struggling in June and July and August, and when he got injured he probably should have been benched since the rosters had expanded. But if you’re looking at Moseley and Vazquez, two guys who have no future with the team, hell yes they should be benched if you have a viable starter waiting behind them.

    If Tex has 1 year left on his deal and he is hitting .180 in July, I would expect they’d bench him!

    —————————–

    Ok forget Tex – you think based on Miranda’s AAA numbers they should have gone with him at DH when Nick went down?

  87. blake February 2nd, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    Does anybody else think Vlad’s bat could be useful if he can be had for 2 or 3 million?

  88. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    blake February 2nd, 2011 at 4:00 pm
    Does anybody else think Vlad’s bat could be useful if he can be had for 2 or 3 million?

    ———————

    I think we’re out of spots on the bench

  89. Jerkface February 2nd, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    Ok forget Tex – you think based on Miranda’s AAA numbers they should have gone with him at DH when Nick went down?

    I think they should have given him more of a shot than he had, but with all the injuries the team suffered last year they ended up using it as a triage position. And they had Thames already on the bench and the Yankees have veteran preference.

  90. SJ44 February 2nd, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    Classic misuse of a stat when you are using Nova’s WAR to make a point.

    Way too small a sample size to convince anybody but yourself he could have put the Yankees over the top.

    The other examples I cited in my post played a much bigger role in the Yankees failure than not using Ivan Nova.

  91. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    Blake, Guerrero would be a useful bat, if he had a place to play. Not sure that he could be that effective as a part timer.

  92. blackaccord February 2nd, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    good…. Yankee Stadium will soon be new Maxwell House…

  93. blake February 2nd, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    Chip,

    Kick somebody off…..I know its redundant and that they really don’t need him but man he can still hit and his market has fallen off the face of the earth….

  94. Tyler February 2nd, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    I just don’t know if Vlad would get enough at-bats on the Yankees. There is no doubt that he can still be productive. He had a really nice year last year but the guy cannot play the field at all anymore. He was absolutely brutal in the World Series out there. Posada will get the majority of the DH at-bats with guys like Arod, and Swisher among others getting half days off in that spot. If Posada was still able to catch I’d love Vlad in that role.

  95. MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    GB-

    I thought you promised Randy to Ratchet and they have been in conubial bliss ever since.

    My mistake.

  96. Tyler February 2nd, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    Talking about Vlad, the O’s are looking like they will have a nice lineup at least on paper next year. I expect Weiters to finally break out, D-Lee is a solid veteran, Vlad can still hit, Roberts is always pesky, Adam Jones has bounce-back potential… Now if they could only have a rotation outside of Matusz haha. And a bullpen that is not in jail…

  97. blake February 2nd, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    GB,

    Yea I.don’t know either or if he would even accept if. My thought ia that maybe he’d rather play 100 or so games with a chance to win than to play 130 with the Orioles. He could DH against lefties and when Jorge catches…..or if Jorge gets hurt which we all know if possible.

  98. Patrick February 2nd, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    You said it doesn’t bode well for the future – truth be told it’s meaningless for the future since we don’t know a cause or if it can be remedied.

    A.J. Burnett averaged 93.2 mph on his fastball in 2010 after averaging 94.2 in 2009. His career average fastball velocity is 94.5. The only other year he averaged under 94 mph was in 2003 when he made 4 starts then missed the rest of the year with tommy john surgery.

    To say that such a significant drop in velocity is meaningless is very foolish. Especially now that he’s at an age where most pitchers start to decline.

  99. Rich in NJ February 2nd, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports......after-all/

    “If the Rangers had a slight advantage over the Yankees, it was very likely because Lee enjoyed his time in Texas, not his visits with Greenberg.”

  100. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    MTU February 2nd, 2011 at 4:04 pm
    GB-

    I thought you promised Randy to Ratchet and they have been in conubial bliss ever since.

    My mistake.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    The first time that anybody has ever used Randy and bliss in the same sentence.

  101. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    Jerkface February 2nd, 2011 at 4:01 pm
    Ok forget Tex – you think based on Miranda’s AAA numbers they should have gone with him at DH when Nick went down?

    I think they should have given him more of a shot than he had, but with all the injuries the team suffered last year they ended up using it as a triage position. And they had Thames already on the bench and the Yankees have veteran preference.

    ————–

    Right – again if the Yankees aren’t using someone there is a reason why. It isn’t that they’re saying “we’re not going to use this guy because he’s a rookie” they just don’t want to use a guy who isn’t ready.

    2007 – the rotation and pen weren’t getting it done – bang up come Hughes, Kennedy and Joba.

    Tony Womack wasn’t getting it done in 05 – up comes Cano

    Bernie Williams was a step slower – up comes Melky Cabrera

    Kevin Brown and Jaret Wright were stinking up the joint – they bring up CM Wang

    The Yankees will (as they have always done) call up players who can help when they believe they can help.

    They’re not going to bench Jeter or AJ or Tex because of slumps – they are too important to the long term outlook of the team and what’s more – the guys behind them aren’t ready yet.

  102. blake February 2nd, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    AJs decline in velocity doesn’t mean he’s finished at all but it will be a problem if he doesn’t change the way he pitches. If he’s not going to cruise at 95 then he can’t be a two pitch guy anymore…..his command just isn’t good enough.

  103. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Classic misuse of a stat when you are using Nova’s WAR to make a point.

    Way too small a sample size to convince anybody but yourself he could have put the Yankees over the top.

    The other examples I cited in my post played a much bigger role in the Yankees failure than not using Ivan Nova.

    —————————

    How is it misused?

    That is what happened. Nova put up a positive WAR last year. Additionally, I don’t see any reason why in more action he would be a below replacement level pitcher last year. His talent, the scouting reports, how he was pitching last year, etc. Ivan Nova is better than that.

    If you think that low of his talent level just 6 months ago, then I don’t know why anyone would be comfortable with him in the rotation.

    Also, you are missing the point.

    Ivan Nova does not put the Yankees over the top last year. Ivan Nova MINUS a guy like Vazquez would have resulted in at least one win for the Yankees.

    It is the combination of removing a negative contributer with a positive contributer.

    The Yankees pitching was one of the worst in baseball Post ASB. 3rd worst.

    Nothing was more detrimental to that team.

  104. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Patrick February 2nd, 2011 at 4:07 pm
    You said it doesn’t bode well for the future – truth be told it’s meaningless for the future since we don’t know a cause or if it can be remedied.

    A.J. Burnett averaged 93.2 mph on his fastball in 2010 after averaging 94.2 in 2009. His career average fastball velocity is 94.5. The only other year he averaged under 94 mph was in 2003 when he made 4 starts then missed the rest of the year with tommy john surgery.

    To say that such a significant drop in velocity is meaningless is very foolish. Especially now that he’s at an age where most pitchers start to decline.

    ——————-

    Didn’t say it was meaningless – I said out of context it is meaningless.

    Why the velocity dropped is what’s important. If it is something that can be corrected for – as in he changed his delivery or release point – then it is a blip. If the velocity drop was because of age/injury then that’s something entirely different.

    But telling me his velocity dropped last year and that’s the start of a decline without any evidence to support it is meaningless.

  105. Patrick February 2nd, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    AJs decline in velocity doesn’t mean he’s finished at all but it will be a problem if he doesn’t change the way he pitches. If he’s not going to cruise at 95 then he can’t be a two pitch guy anymore…..his command just isn’t good enough.

    I’m not saying he’s done, just that it’s not a good sign that his velocity dropped by a fairly significant amount. Especially for a guy like A.J. that depends on big time velocity to get outs.

  106. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Bottom line – if the Yankees thought Nova was ready and would have been an improvement on what they had – he would have been in New York.

    Cashman, Nardi, Girardi and Eiland did not sit around saying “Ivan Nova could help us win a bunch of games but you know what – I really like Dustin Mosely so we should really keep running him out there.”

    And if you think that’s how they operate then you are clueless.

    ————————-

    Chip,

    Yes. I think the Yankees operate by intentionally making decisions to lose games. That is exactly what I meant :roll:

    No, as I said from the start the Yankees show too much faith and deference in veterans. That is what I am saying. And that deference/faith/trust whatever you want to call it is a mistake IMO.

  107. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    blake February 2nd, 2011 at 4:04 pm
    Chip,

    Kick somebody off…..I know its redundant and that they really don’t need him but man he can still hit and his market has fallen off the face of the earth….

    —————————–

    Yeah I just don’t see the need for a guy who can only pinch hit/dh on the bench. If there were a lot of weak spots in the lineup I would be for it.

  108. Rich in NJ February 2nd, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    “Bernie Williams was a step slower – up comes Melky Cabrera”

    Yet Lofton likely (based on his performance subsequent to his Yankee tenure) could have helped compensate for Bernie’s decline as early as 2004, but wasn’t given a chance. Melky didn’t produce until 2006.

    So this:

    “The Yankees will (as they have always done) call up players who can help when they believe they can help.”

    Doesn’t really dispose of the issue.

  109. Patrick February 2nd, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    Chip,

    You quoted me quoting you saying that it is meaningless! Stop parsing words, you’re wrong.

    If the velocity dropped because of bad mechanics, that’s bad because it’s not something that gets fixed overnight. If the velocity dropped because of injury or because of age, that’s even worse.

    I’m not saying A.J. is done and will never have a good season again, I’m just saying that the drop in velocity is a bad sign. Lets be realistic, Burnett is not the most durable pitcher in the world and he’s getting older.

  110. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 4:13 pm
    Bottom line – if the Yankees thought Nova was ready and would have been an improvement on what they had – he would have been in New York.

    Cashman, Nardi, Girardi and Eiland did not sit around saying “Ivan Nova could help us win a bunch of games but you know what – I really like Dustin Mosely so we should really keep running him out there.”

    And if you think that’s how they operate then you are clueless.

    ————————-

    Chip,

    Yes. I think the Yankees operate by intentionally making decisions to lose games. That is exactly what I meant

    No, as I said from the start the Yankees show too much faith and deference in veterans. That is what I am saying. And that deference/faith/trust whatever you want to call it is a mistake IMO.

    ————————–

    And I’m saying IMNSHO that:

    A) Not all veterans are created equal and they’re going to have more “whatever” in a guy like Jeter or Tex or AJ than they will to a Freddy Garcia or Bartolo Colon or even Russ Martin.

    B) The Yankees are better at this than you are. They’re not going to press a player into service if they don’t think he’s ready. If Ivan Nova’s in AAA there is a reason he’s there and it isn’t because Joe Girardi and Brian Cashman have a crush on veterans.

  111. blake February 2nd, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    Patrick,

    Yes, its been discussed to death but AJ can’t pitch the way he has in the past at 92 ….if he does then you get 2010 results because he just makes too many mistakes in the strike zone. If he’s not going to gain the velocity back and his command isn’t going to improve then then best thing he can do is incorporate other weapons to get hitters off his fastball and allow more margin for error……that and throwing more quality strikes.

  112. blake February 2nd, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    Chip,

    Vlad was great for the Rangers most of 2010. Playing less might actually help him…..

  113. hardwired7 February 2nd, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    At some point, it becomes less about shoveling, and more about reclaiming territory.

  114. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Chip,

    Then what happened with Javier Vazquez last year?

    Are you telling me that Ivan Nova could not have pitched to a 6.64 ERA?

    And again, stop twisting my words. I never said they have a crush on veterans. Use the words I use or pick up a thesaurus.

  115. Patrick February 2nd, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    blake,

    You are correct but I highly doubt A.J. can make that kind of adjustment.

  116. Rich in NJ February 2nd, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    “The Yankees are better at this than you are. They’re not going to press a player into service if they don’t think he’s ready.”

    Actually, that isn’t even the test the Yankees use. It’s not even a unitary test, as we have just seen with the Soriano signing.

    It would tend to suggest that Cashman may think that a cheap in-house solution can do the job, or that a young player is ready, but that ownership won’t ratify that decision because they are under the (mis)impression that veterans are usually better than young players, which is not always true.

    LGY isn’t similarly constrained.

  117. Patrick February 2nd, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    The Yankees are better at this than you are.

    Such a silly argument. I guess we can’t criticize any moves they make can we?

  118. blake February 2nd, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Patrick,
    I think he can throw more changeups pretty easily. I think that and possibily and better frame of mind and clean slate is the quickest fix for him. Im not sure you can rebuild his mechanics at his age…..

  119. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Patrick,

    Your exact quote from the last thread:

    Patrick February 2nd, 2011 at 2:21 pm
    Chip,

    I’m also right.

    Lackey has proven he can pitch at a high level for an extended period of time. Look at his 2005-2007 numbers, that is a better 3 year stretch than any in Burnett’s career. Also if you look at Lackey’s stuff, it’s basically the same as it was during that good stretch whereas if you look at Burnett’s stuff, he lost a significant amount of velocity last year which does not bode well for his future.

    —————————–

    My comment is that you don’t know what his dip in velocity means for his future.

    If it was a mechanical issue then he’s had all winter and will have all spring training with a brand new pitching coach to correct the problem. In which case last year’s dip is meaningless in how it relates to this coming season.

    If on the other hand the dip in velo was a result of age/injury then that’s something entirely different.

    But saying that “he lost a significant amount of velocity” without knowing why is like saying that Tex had a bad year last year and that means he’s on a downward trend.

  120. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Man now I wish evenmore the Yanks signed Pavano so I could have used that stupid line on him.

  121. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 4:19 pm
    Chip,

    Then what happened with Javier Vazquez last year?

    Are you telling me that Ivan Nova could not have pitched to a 6.64 ERA?

    ——————————-

    that’s a silly argument.

    What’s the difference between whether Ivan Nova is up here pitching badly or Javy Vazquez is up here pitching badly?

    The question is could Nova have pitched much better than Javy Vazquez over the course of the second half of the season? And the answer is that you have no way of knowing if that was the case.

  122. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    Patrick February 2nd, 2011 at 4:23 pm
    The Yankees are better at this than you are.

    Such a silly argument. I guess we can’t criticize any moves they make can we?

    ——————————

    Now who is parsing

  123. 108 stitches February 2nd, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    I wonder if Burnett is throwing in his Maryland barn under the watchful eyes of Larry Rothschild.

  124. Patrick February 2nd, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    Chip,

    First of all, I know what I wrote, you don’t have to quote it back to me. Secondly, these analogies you make are completely absurd. Tex having a bad year does not equal A.J. Burnett losing velocity.

    I already explained why a drop in velocity is bad for A.J. no matter what the reason is.

    The whole point of this argument was to show that one of the reasons why Lackey is a better bet going forward is because he hasn’t lost velocity on his stuff. Lets say Lackey and Burnett have been equally good over their careers (Lackey’s actually been better) and I’m trying to figure out which guy I want for the next 3 years. How do I make the decision? Well… a drop in velocity from Burnett makes the choice kind of easy. There’s a chance that the drop in velocity is a sign that he is on a downward trend. Why take the chance if in this hypothetical both guys are the same?

  125. Wave Your Hat February 2nd, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    LGY’s point is that the Yanks are biased in favor of the bird in the hand over the bird in the bush, the result being that they tend to stay longer with veteran disappointments than they should. I don’t think AJ is a fair example here because of his contract status, but Vazquez is.

    Whether or not Nova could have done better is really not the issue, but whether the Yanks should have tried alternatives out sooner.

  126. YankeesNmore February 2nd, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Brian Cashman’s awesome offseason rolls on.

    CEDRIC Maxwell has about as good a chance of contributing.

    #Time4aChange

  127. Patrick February 2nd, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Now who is parsing

    I quote and respond to exactly what you post. You quote and twist what I say, and it looks like you’ve been doing the same things to LGY.

    When you’re wrong, admit it and move on or close the browser and do something else. Stop with this nonsense

  128. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Wave Your Hat February 2nd, 2011 at 4:30 pm
    LGY’s point is that the Yanks are biased in favor of the bird in the hand over the bird in the bush, the result being that they tend to stay longer with veteran disappointments than they should. I don’t think AJ is a fair example here because of his contract status, but Vazquez is.

    Whether or not Nova could have done better is really not the issue, but whether the Yanks should have tried alternatives out sooner.

    —————————-

    But they did move Javy in and out of the rotation during the year when he wasn’t getting it done.

    The issue was that their best alternative (Aceves) got hurt.

  129. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Chip

    You are really making the dumbest statements today.

    We have no way of knowing so let’s just forget it and pack up the blog. Why discuss anything. We have no way of knowing!!

    Chip. Even if Nova was as bad as Javy which I HIGHLY doubt Nova is part of the future.

    I am very very confident Nova would have been considerably better. If I didn’t I do not want Nova anywhere near the rotation this year.

  130. Wave Your Hat February 2nd, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    “But they did move Javy in and out of the rotation during the year when he wasn’t getting it done.”

    That took a long time to get done. And they went with other veterans who disappointed rather than bringing up kids until one got the job done.

  131. YankeesNmore February 2nd, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    “But they did move Javy in and out of the rotation during the year when he wasn’t getting it done.”
    ——————————————————————————–
    Ah yes… Javier Vazquez… Brian Cashman’s idea of “doing something big” (his words, not mine).

    And we’re still letting this retarded elf make baseball decisions for the most valuable franchise in the history of sports???

    #Time4aChange

  132. blake February 2nd, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    The Yankees were paying Javy a lot of money and he was actually pretty good.for a 2 or 3 month stretch in the.middle of the year ….did they stick with him too long, maybe….but I don’t think it was totally unreasonable to keep hoping he would get it together again.

  133. J. Alfred Prufrock February 2nd, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Wave Your Hat February 2nd, 2011 at 4:30 pm
    LGY’s point is that the Yanks are biased in favor of the bird in the hand over the bird in the bush, the result being that they tend to stay longer with veteran disappointments than they should. I don’t think AJ is a fair example here because of his contract status, but Vazquez is.

    Whether or not Nova could have done better is really not the issue, but whether the Yanks should have tried alternatives out sooner.
    ///
    I would have liked Joba without innings restrictions and no trade for Javy in the first place.

  134. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    ther or not Nova could have done better is really not the issue, but whether the Yanks should have tried alternatives out sooner

    ****

    Wave

    Yes! Thank you.

    Chip’s distortions and word manipulations has gotten me distracted from my real point.

  135. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    here’s a decent site for injury reports/TJ recovery and depth charts for each system. Nor bad info.

    http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/

  136. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Patrick February 2nd, 2011 at 4:30 pm
    Chip,

    First of all, I know what I wrote, you don’t have to quote it back to me. Secondly, these analogies you make are completely absurd. Tex having a bad year does not equal A.J. Burnett losing velocity.

    I already explained why a drop in velocity is bad for A.J. no matter what the reason is.

    The whole point of this argument was to show that one of the reasons why Lackey is a better bet going forward is because he hasn’t lost velocity on his stuff. Lets say Lackey and Burnett have been equally good over their careers (Lackey’s actually been better) and I’m trying to figure out which guy I want for the next 3 years. How do I make the decision? Well… a drop in velocity from Burnett makes the choice kind of easy. There’s a chance that the drop in velocity is a sign that he is on a downward trend. Why take the chance if in this hypothetical both guys are the same?

    ——————————-

    A) Apparently I do need to quote back to you what you said.

    B) Your “explaination” is without merit. You’re making an assumption that AJ’s drop in velocity continues into next season – you have no way of knowing that.

    C) As for Lackey vs. Burnett let’s first assume they’re both FAs at the same time (which they weren’t) which has more red flags to you –

    a guy who (at the time of his signing) had shown no drop off in velocity or stuff and had been very strong against your top opponents, coming from a team with no opportunity to re-sign him

    a guy who is coming from a team with ample financial resources that makes no effort to re-sign him following two seasons in which he missed time due to arm injuries

  137. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 4:37 pm
    ther or not Nova could have done better is really not the issue, but whether the Yanks should have tried alternatives out sooner

    ****

    Wave

    Yes! Thank you.

    Chip’s distortions and word manipulations has gotten me distracted from my real point.

    ——————

    You’re not getting away that easily –

    You said not using Ivan Nova cost the Yankees the AL East (actually you said SL East)

  138. Patrick February 2nd, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    Chip,

    Now you are changing the argument, and the hypothetical I put forward. I’m sick of you, bye

  139. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    “You said not using Ivan Nova cost the Yankees the AL East (actually you said SL East)”

    —————–

    Actually I said this:

    “The Yankees had a number of better options last season than the smorgasboard of below replacement level pitchers they kept throwing put there, but they die not pursue those options.

    And it cost them the SL East”

    Do you know how to read Chip and are you just being intentionally dumb today?

  140. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    LGY:

    The primary reason the Yankees did not win the AL East last year and thereby put themselves in the optimal position to advance to the WS was deference to veterans.

    Tex killed the lineup for months in the 3 hole. Jeter’s poor performance vs RHP hurt the lineup the entire season.

    More importantly, they stuck with Javier Vazquez too long. AJ Burnett was given too many opportunities to just basically punt away games on his own. Scrubs like Dustin Moseley, Sergio Mitre, and Chad Gaudin were given opportunities that players on the farm were not. Those 5 under performing players pitched far too often last year and blocked too many promising pitchers on the farm.

    Ivan Nova was called up far too late. He did not start a game until August 23rd. That is absurd given the below replacement level players who were starting ahead of him. No other prospect was given a chance. A player like David Phelps should absolutely have been given an opportunity last season.

    ——————————-

    Scrubs like Dustin Moseley, Sergio Mitre, and Chad Gaudin were given opportunities that players on the farm were not.

    Is it possible that those scrubs were given opportunities because the Yankees didn’t believe that Nova and Phelps – guys who hadn’t pitched in AAA until last year – weren’t ready?

    Tex killed the lineup for months in the 3 hole. Jeter’s poor performance vs RHP hurt the lineup the entire season.

    If you think that the Yankees are going bench either of those players then you’re crazy. It’s just not going to happen.

    And suggesting that all veterans are going to be treated equally is equally crazy.

    Freddy Garcia is not Derek Jeter – he’s not even Javy Vazquez. As I said when you first went off on this nonsense – if Garcia stinks and if Phelps or Nova or Warren are pitching light’s out in Scranton the Yankees will make a change just as they changed from Womack to Cano, just as they changed from Villone to Joba. But if Garcia is holding his own and the club is winning they aren’t going to dump him for the sake of dumping him.

  141. GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    Wave Your Hat February 2nd, 2011 at 4:30 pm
    LGY’s point is that the Yanks are biased in favor of the bird in the hand over

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    If he believes that, he’s not putting his bird in the right bush.

  142. Nick in SF February 2nd, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    The Yankees’ failure to win just one more game last season was very costly indeed.

    Girardi!!! :mad:

  143. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Chip,

    After reading your 4:49 post I am tired of you as well.

    You are even worse than a troll right now because I think you actually believe the stuff you are typing.

  144. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    “If he believes that, he’s not putting his bird in the right bush.”

    —————–

    I am not really sure what bush you are referring to, but nonetheless this comment makes me very uncomfortable.

  145. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    LGY -

    Do I think the Yankees went with Javy too long – YES

    But they did not feel they had any better options available at the time.

    Do I think that because they didn’t bench or demote Jeter in the lineup or move Tex out of the 3 spot that means they’re going to keep running Freddy Garcia out there if he stinks? No I don’t. You can’t compare them. Derek Jeter is a Yankee icon, Tex is a superstar making a ton of money – even Javy was here on a big money deal – Freddy Garcia is here on a minor league deal that will pay him 1.5 million in the majors (base). You’re comparing apples and oranges.

  146. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 4:51 pm
    Chip,

    After reading your 4:49 post I am tired of you as well.

    You are even worse than a troll right now because I think you actually believe the stuff you are typing
    ——————

    You and Patrick are children. Someone argues with you and you whine and run off. Go find a different site where lemmings will follow your drivel.

  147. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    GreenBeret7 February 2nd, 2011 at 4:49 pm
    Wave Your Hat February 2nd, 2011 at 4:30 pm
    LGY’s point is that the Yanks are biased in favor of the bird in the hand over

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    If he believes that, he’s not putting his bird in the right bush.

    ———————–

    Nice.

  148. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    There is a website where any of various short-tailed furry-footed rodents of circumpolar distribution will listen to me???

    Cool! Where to?

  149. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 5:00 pm
    There is a website where any of various short-tailed furry-footed rodents of circumpolar distribution will listen to me???

    Cool! Where to?

    ——————

    I’m sure you can google it.

  150. blake February 2nd, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    LGY,

    I think it’s called Extra Bases……maybe Pedroia reads.

  151. Chip February 2nd, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    In all seriousness LGY –

    Do you get where lumping the way the Yankees treat Derek Jeter or even Javy Vazquez together with the way they’ll treat Freddy Garcia is a silly hypothesis?

  152. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Chip

    In all seriousness.

    You are a short-tailed furry-footed rodent of circumpolar distribution if you think that is what I was saying.

  153. Patrick February 2nd, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    You and Patrick are children. Someone argues with you and you whine and run off. Go find a different site where lemmings will follow your drivel.

    Sorry, but I don’t like wasting time arguing with someone that doesn’t understand logic, or does and is just trolling me. I can’t tell which.

    Whatever, I guess I’m a child! You win the argument Chip, congrats bro.

  154. G. Love February 2nd, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    LGY,

    I don’t think for a second that the Yankees will let Colon or Garcia go past their expiration dates if they are not effective. They’re both low risk signings and I expect them to be treated like Winn and Park were if they make the big club.

    If the Yankees think there’s a lights out starter in the system who is ready for the majors, they’re going to bring him up.

    And I’m still not convinced that one of the rookies doesn’t pitch their way into the rotation this spring.

    There’s a new pitching coach and Girardi seems to be his own man independent of Cashman (re: Soriano),

    If Rothschild and Girardi fall in love with one of the kids and they think they’re ready for prime time, I think they’ll get their shot.

    That said, I love the Garcia signing (Colon, not so much). He may turn out to be completely washed up, but he showed signs last year that he still could throw a good game more often than not.

    If he can’t get anyone out though, I doubt he gets more than 4 starts.

  155. LGY February 2nd, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    My biggest concern is not even the pitchers.

    It is how much rope Martin gets.

  156. SAS February 2nd, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    Hank moves into George’s old office :arrow:

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